02/03/2017

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:00:21. > :01:10.Firstly, I have to alert all our loyal followers

:01:11. > :01:13.and supporters that the soft coup is under way.

:01:14. > :01:14.It's planned, co-ordinated and fully resourced.

:01:15. > :01:17.It's being perpetrated by an alliance between the dark

:01:18. > :01:20.elements of the This Week sofas and the BBC Yentob empire,

:01:21. > :01:28.both intent on destroying me and all that I stand for.

:01:29. > :01:35.The Police Inspectorate reported that budgets have been cut, with

:01:36. > :01:41.some forces struggling to provide even a six services. An official NHS

:01:42. > :01:44.watchdog warned that the health service was standing on a burning

:01:45. > :01:49.platform with four out of five hospitals needing to improve basic

:01:50. > :01:53.patient safety, and the Independent and to chew for fiscal studies

:01:54. > :01:59.predicted planned cuts to welfare would drive 1 million children into

:02:00. > :02:03.poverty by 2020. So I don't know why you are so surprised that Labour is

:02:04. > :02:08.between 14 points and six team points ahead in the polls. With that

:02:09. > :02:14.sort of record, why would you not expect the Tories to be trailing

:02:15. > :02:19.badly. Simple. I'm sorry, what's that? The Tories are 16 points aired

:02:20. > :02:23.in the polls. I just don't believe that. It's the sort of fake news

:02:24. > :02:26.that gives journalism a bad name. Next you will be telling me the

:02:27. > :02:36.Tories won the Copeland by-election. And joining me, hiding in plain

:02:37. > :02:38.sight is the conspirator-in-chief, the Colour Of Shirt Trojan horse

:02:39. > :02:41.of late night political chat, Michael #ChooChooseYourFriends

:02:42. > :02:42.Portillo and with him, restoring the balance

:02:43. > :02:49.for good in this studio Liz Your moment of the week. I spent

:02:50. > :02:52.today trying to figure out how what Jeff Sessions said to Congress about

:02:53. > :02:57.not having had contact with the Russians could be anything other

:02:58. > :03:02.than lying. Despite my best efforts, I failed. It clearly was a lie, and

:03:03. > :03:05.the administration has already lost one senior official, the national

:03:06. > :03:10.security adviser, on contacts with the Russians. I do not see how they

:03:11. > :03:14.can avoid losing a second, the Attorney General. This issue about

:03:15. > :03:18.what the Russians were up to during the American election, and what the

:03:19. > :03:23.Republicans were up to with the Russians during the general election

:03:24. > :03:31.seems to be not going away. Did you see the Attorney General's press

:03:32. > :03:39.conference? I did. Then you will see why he in trouble. Your moment? John

:03:40. > :03:46.Major's Brexit speech. I remember when he beat Neil Kinnock, I

:03:47. > :03:50.remember ranting at the news. My boyfriend listened patiently for a

:03:51. > :03:54.while and then said, either shut up, or do something about it. That was

:03:55. > :03:58.when I joined the Labour Party. If you had told me 25 years later that

:03:59. > :04:07.I would agree with almost every word of a speech by John Major, I would

:04:08. > :04:15.have laughed. You are talking about his best friend, John Major. Not so

:04:16. > :04:20.much has changed for me in 25 years. He did tell us that he won

:04:21. > :04:26.Maastricht game, set and match. He did well with Maastricht. He was

:04:27. > :04:28.asked to do a couple of things needed them well. It what happened

:04:29. > :04:32.after that. Now, we received a mislabelled

:04:33. > :04:34.parcel this week. On the off chance it

:04:35. > :04:36.contained Blue Nun I'm afraid our production

:04:37. > :04:38.team opened it. To their great disappointment,

:04:39. > :04:40.it was a set of Russian dolls. First out, the biggest,

:04:41. > :04:42.Vladimir Putin. Next popped Donald Trump,

:04:43. > :04:44.then Mike Flynn, then Jeff Sessions. Oddly, the last one was just a small

:04:45. > :04:47.yellow bottle, probably Blue Nun, Anyways, we've forwarded

:04:48. > :04:51.it on to its original destination, a certain Boris

:04:52. > :04:53.at The Secret Entrance, So just to be on the safe side,

:04:54. > :04:57.we sent American Diplomat turned journalist, James Rubin

:04:58. > :04:59.to the This Week nuclear bunker Long before President Trump took

:05:00. > :05:09.office it felt like world events War raging in country

:05:10. > :05:20.after country in the Middle East. And countries in the heart

:05:21. > :05:25.of Europe being invaded, China laying claim to critical sea

:05:26. > :05:36.lanes in the South China Sea, with US patrols then sent

:05:37. > :05:51.to challenge Beijing. He says he wants good

:05:52. > :05:58.relations with Moscow. The problem is, somehow he can't

:05:59. > :06:01.find the words to criticise Russia's But he does have the time

:06:02. > :06:10.to bad-mouth the trade policies and defence alliances that have

:06:11. > :06:13.served us so well, that have given us peace and prosperity in Europe

:06:14. > :06:18.and Asia for 70 years now. That's why he sponsors extremists

:06:19. > :06:28.for elections here in Europe, The White House should be

:06:29. > :06:37.stopping him, not creating a crisis of confidence that will only end

:06:38. > :06:49.up helping him. After eight years of overreach under

:06:50. > :06:52.President Bush and the war in Iraq, the pendulum swung back the other

:06:53. > :06:55.way, and America retrenched What we need is a steady hand

:06:56. > :07:03.somewhere in the middle. 50 billion more for defence

:07:04. > :07:14.is not the answer. We need a new President to inspire,

:07:15. > :07:16.to restore confidence, Working together, America and Europe

:07:17. > :07:28.still have the power If only our leaders

:07:29. > :07:41.would have the will. Thanks to bunker 51 in Greenwich

:07:42. > :07:57.for releasing Jamie Rubin. Welcome back. You said that the

:07:58. > :08:04.White House should be stopping Putin, but stopping him from what

:08:05. > :08:07.and how? Well, first of all, it wouldn't be beyond the capabilities

:08:08. > :08:11.of the United States to have counteracted all of this

:08:12. > :08:16.interference in the US election, in the French election now, in the

:08:17. > :08:20.German election. We keep hearing about Russian efforts to damage our

:08:21. > :08:24.democratic system. It wouldn't be impossible for the United States to

:08:25. > :08:28.have responded stronger to Ukraine in the past. And I certainly don't

:08:29. > :08:33.think we should ignore the fact that Russia has invaded another country.

:08:34. > :08:37.The thing about Trump, all of this, I don't know what really happened

:08:38. > :08:42.but I cannot figure out why he can't criticise this invasion of another

:08:43. > :08:48.country. You don't have to be for sanctions to criticise it. But why

:08:49. > :08:53.can't he do that? Wasn't it Obama's job to stop Russian interference in

:08:54. > :08:57.the election? He was the President. I would agree that it is now

:08:58. > :09:01.apparent that President Obama and his team should have been tough on

:09:02. > :09:07.the Russians. Every time they interfered, there was no response.

:09:08. > :09:12.So it is not Donald Trump's fault. It is his fault for not recognising

:09:13. > :09:16.this is a problem. It is his fault for not telling us we need to gather

:09:17. > :09:21.together and working unity. The reason the United States and the

:09:22. > :09:25.West succeeded in all those years is when we were together and United and

:09:26. > :09:29.agreed on the problem. Right now, Germany, Britain, France, they don't

:09:30. > :09:34.agree with the United States on Vladimir Putin. Nobody can figure

:09:35. > :09:39.out why Mr Trump is so calm about Putin's activities. What's wrong

:09:40. > :09:44.with trying to reset relations with Russia? I don't think there would be

:09:45. > :09:50.anything particularly wrong about that. I want to go back over where

:09:51. > :09:55.we have been. Crimea was invaded by Russia when Obama was President, and

:09:56. > :10:01.Putin predicted there would be no reaction from Obama, and he was dead

:10:02. > :10:04.right. I think the invasion of Crimea was largely provoked by

:10:05. > :10:10.European Union Foreign Minister is interfering in Ukraine, which

:10:11. > :10:15.presented either a threat or an excuse to Russia. The fact is that

:10:16. > :10:18.since President Trump has become President, nothing has happened.

:10:19. > :10:22.There may be an absence of language you would have welcomed but nothing

:10:23. > :10:27.has happened except that he has declared he will increase defence

:10:28. > :10:30.spending, and has told his European Union and Nato partners quite

:10:31. > :10:33.rightly that they should increase their defence spending because they

:10:34. > :10:37.are freeloading on the United States in Europe. That message has been

:10:38. > :10:41.delivered more strongly by Trump than it was by Obama. If one is

:10:42. > :10:45.going to talk about what the President has said, it is true there

:10:46. > :10:51.may have been an absence of Cold War rhetoric... It is not Cold War

:10:52. > :10:57.rhetoric. But it is also true that he has done two things to the

:10:58. > :11:00.disadvantage of Russia. Michael, I hope your comfort level with Donald

:11:01. > :11:05.Trump sustains itself throughout these years. You dismiss as Cold War

:11:06. > :11:10.rhetoric the idea that the President of the United States should declare,

:11:11. > :11:14.with vigour and determination, that a country in Europe should not

:11:15. > :11:18.invade its neighbour and annex a portion of it. That is still going

:11:19. > :11:25.on right now, Michael. It is not something that happened years ago.

:11:26. > :11:30.There is a war in Ukraine. What can America do about it? He can declare

:11:31. > :11:35.it as a problem. The fact that he can't criticise the Russian invasion

:11:36. > :11:39.of Ukraine is what is troubling me. What you have said is fine, but to

:11:40. > :11:45.dismiss that as Cold War rhetoric I do not understand. Lives, what is

:11:46. > :11:48.your take? Coming back to your question of what is wrong with it,

:11:49. > :11:53.if you take Trump at his word about what he wants to achieve, in many

:11:54. > :11:57.cases, Russia wants the opposite. Trump says he wants to defeat

:11:58. > :12:02.so-called Islamic State. In Syria, Russia has actually not been

:12:03. > :12:06.fighting Islamic State, but fighting the rebels against Assad. Trump

:12:07. > :12:11.wants to contain China. Russia is too weak politically, economically,

:12:12. > :12:16.militarily, to do that, actually wants to boost trade with China

:12:17. > :12:21.because of its struggling economy. Another objective might be to

:12:22. > :12:27.confront Iran. And again, all the evidence is that Russia is working

:12:28. > :12:31.with Iran in the Middle East. Russia's primary objective is to

:12:32. > :12:38.divide and undermine the confidence of the West, and ultimately that

:12:39. > :12:42.will be bad for Trump. So the truth is, his strategic objectives, even

:12:43. > :12:48.as he set them, will not be achieved by cosying up to Putin. Mr Trump

:12:49. > :12:54.thinks that Russia is largely Europe's problem, a regional issue.

:12:55. > :12:58.He sees China as the threat to US interests. He thinks that Europe

:12:59. > :13:03.should sort out Russia. It is their problem. I don't know that he has

:13:04. > :13:06.made that judgment but I would disagree on these grounds. Russia's

:13:07. > :13:12.behaviour in the last few years is a problem for the world. When a great

:13:13. > :13:16.power decides to throw away 50 years of policy and invade their neighbour

:13:17. > :13:20.and annex a piece of it, whether you think Crimea should be Russian or

:13:21. > :13:27.not, the last great power to do that, we all know, was Germany. So

:13:28. > :13:31.it's a problem. Maybe not the end of the world, but to not identify it as

:13:32. > :13:37.a problem, that is where my problem is. He thinks it is Europe's

:13:38. > :13:41.problem. It is the world's problem. It is a basic rule of international

:13:42. > :13:47.relations. If you don't except that, we have big problems. Then you go to

:13:48. > :13:50.Syria and Iran, and if it had not been to Russia working with Iran,

:13:51. > :13:55.the Assad regime would never be where it is today. That is bad for

:13:56. > :13:59.the world, to stand by and watch Syria do what it did. And for the

:14:00. > :14:04.United States to seed the Middle East to the Russians, we will be

:14:05. > :14:12.sorry one day. It is not a regional problem. When Russia interferes with

:14:13. > :14:18.elections. None of this happened on Trump's watch. It is happening

:14:19. > :14:23.today. Interference in Germany and France is happening today. Russian

:14:24. > :14:28.policy in Syria is happening today. Russian planes are interfering with

:14:29. > :14:33.Nato officials across northern Europe today. We might have an

:14:34. > :14:34.incident in the Balkans tomorrow. To dismiss this as ancient history is

:14:35. > :14:43.not serious. I'm not dismissing it. President

:14:44. > :14:50.Obama's only just left office, remember, he can come here and, you

:14:51. > :14:56.know, via us, elected President Trump. You are talking about me. You

:14:57. > :15:00.haven't been listening. I have. You declared me the man who was Obama's

:15:01. > :15:04.supporter. I said in the piece, and I hope you were paying attention, I

:15:05. > :15:09.said that George Bush overreached through the invasion of Iraq and

:15:10. > :15:13.then I said that President Obama underreached and retrenched in the

:15:14. > :15:18.United States and that what we need is somewhere in the middle so please

:15:19. > :15:22.don't dismiss me as an Obama lover who's suddenly criticising Trump.

:15:23. > :15:25.Listen to what I said on the tape, I think Donald Trump is bad for us

:15:26. > :15:29.because we need somebody in the middle, we don't want overreach, we

:15:30. > :15:34.don't want underreach, we should just be the leader that the world

:15:35. > :15:38.needs right now. I have a feeling that Trump may turn out to be

:15:39. > :15:42.exactly what you desire: I hope so. Which is something in the middle and

:15:43. > :15:47.certainly the two things he already said, the extra spending and telling

:15:48. > :15:54.NATO to gets its act together, would push us in that direction. It's

:15:55. > :16:02.saying it's time Europe paid more for its defence. They say, you can't

:16:03. > :16:09.expect the US to pay more for the European children than the Europeans

:16:10. > :16:14.do. I've been a strong supporter of NATO paying what they said they'd

:16:15. > :16:20.pay. Misses May said it will be 2024. She runs a massive budget

:16:21. > :16:25.surplus. If you make a commitment as part of NATO or any organisation,

:16:26. > :16:33.you should meet it. What I don't think will make the world safer is

:16:34. > :16:39.to kind of engage in what, as has been announced in some unnecessary

:16:40. > :16:43.and frankly dangerous nuclear arms race - in cutting funding for the

:16:44. > :16:47.State Department and foreign aid, I don't think he could be reducing

:16:48. > :16:53.America's influence in the world and making states less safe. It raises

:16:54. > :16:57.big questions for the UK because we used to be a leader in Europe and a

:16:58. > :17:01.bridge between Britain and Europe. Now we are neither. The Europeans

:17:02. > :17:07.will need us more than ever now. They will on the defence side. Let

:17:08. > :17:10.me say this. You know, our objectives are also different. This

:17:11. > :17:17.is actually a point John Major made in his speech. We want to contain

:17:18. > :17:22.Russia and engage China and Trump wants to, you know, engage Russia

:17:23. > :17:25.and engage China. We have very different objectives on trade,

:17:26. > :17:29.refugees and we have a different view about protectionism. I think

:17:30. > :17:32.this is going to put us in an extremely difficult position if

:17:33. > :17:40.Theresa May believes that having a much, much closer relationship with

:17:41. > :17:44.Trump is going to be the solution to all of our problems. Trump wants to

:17:45. > :17:48.take a tougher line with China, that's clear. That means he can't be

:17:49. > :17:54.seen to be too soft on Russia because Beijing will see that as a

:17:55. > :17:58.sign of weakness? Look, what you say on its surface is fair enough. The

:17:59. > :18:02.problem is, Donald Trump doesn't know what he thinks. One day he was

:18:03. > :18:07.making a phone call to the President of Taiwan, saying I reject the one

:18:08. > :18:11.China policy that's been the basis since Richard Nixon and Henry

:18:12. > :18:15.Kissinger started relations with China and the Chinese said, oh, if

:18:16. > :18:20.that's really your position, we don't want to talk to you. So Donald

:18:21. > :18:24.Trump capitulated and he agreed to the one China policy before the

:18:25. > :18:29.President of China would even get on the phone with him. This is amateur

:18:30. > :18:34.hour in the extreme. You can find all the silver linings you want but

:18:35. > :18:37.when an amateur takes over in the Whitehouse when leadership is so

:18:38. > :18:41.important after eight years of going one way and eight years of going the

:18:42. > :18:44.other way, it's a real danger for the world. Amateur hour at the

:18:45. > :18:47.Whitehouse is what I'm worried about. Thank you.

:18:48. > :18:49.Now it's late, clay pigeon shooting with Francois Hollande late,

:18:50. > :18:53.but worry not, this program spends half its time misfiring and look

:18:54. > :19:06.Cause for celebration, so waiting in the wings is the don

:19:07. > :19:09.of dancing DJs David Rodigan is here to put codes

:19:10. > :19:12.So save your Facebullets, stand down the twitter tanks,

:19:13. > :19:31.If we'd never the Oscars wasn't a tedious lovy fest and reinvented

:19:32. > :19:35.itself as the funniest show on earth, we'd have been off to

:19:36. > :19:36.Hollywood in a shot. Here is Kevin Maguire with his award-winning

:19:37. > :19:58.political round-up of the week. Now, the entire This Week team have

:19:59. > :20:04.been casting their votes It all started when I offered odds

:20:05. > :20:26.on the Labour winning in Copeland. Now I'm in serious trouble

:20:27. > :20:30.and unless I get the money back, This Week's production values

:20:31. > :20:32.will be rubbish. The political week started

:20:33. > :20:36.with a row over changes The Prime Minister's policy adviser,

:20:37. > :20:41.George Freeman, defended withholding assistance for people with mental

:20:42. > :20:46.health issues, arguing Benefits have been given to people

:20:47. > :20:51.who take pills at home, We want to make sure we get

:20:52. > :20:55.the money to the really Things are going from bad

:20:56. > :21:02.to worse with Labour. With odds this long,

:21:03. > :21:05.perhaps it's worth a punt on Corbyn Then again, with Labour

:21:06. > :21:14.imploding, who could hold Coming up on the inside,

:21:15. > :21:22.it's Aaron Banks Moneybags. Arron Banks Moneybags is gaining

:21:23. > :21:24.on Quisling Carswell. But out of retirement, we've not

:21:25. > :21:28.heard the last of Nigel Farage, Quisling Carswell has

:21:29. > :21:31.bitten Nigel Farage. And crossing the line,

:21:32. > :21:38.the entire Ukip Derby is riderless. Jockeying for position among Ukip's

:21:39. > :21:44.senior figures has left the party in disarray,

:21:45. > :21:48.with donor Arron Banks this week threatening to stand

:21:49. > :21:50.against its only MP, And there were claims Carswell tried

:21:51. > :21:54.to block a knighthood And unlike Sir Philip Green, Nige

:21:55. > :22:00.can't afford 363 million to get one. So, Mr Farage pretty much

:22:01. > :22:07.thinks Carswell should He tried to undermine

:22:08. > :22:13.everything we've stood for for a very long time,

:22:14. > :22:16.in terms of policy, Do you think you

:22:17. > :22:19.deserve a knighthood? The Tories are romping home

:22:20. > :22:39.and Mrs May's got tight reins But some of the Conservatives

:22:40. > :22:44.are a bit skittish about Brexit. Eight months ago, a majority

:22:45. > :22:49.of voters opted to leave I believed then, as I do now,

:22:50. > :22:56.that was an historic mistake. A hard Brexit, which is

:22:57. > :22:59.where we appear to be But the Foreign Secretary

:23:00. > :23:10.was having none of it. Sometimes I get a bit impatient

:23:11. > :23:14.when I hear people droning and moaning about the state

:23:15. > :23:18.of the world, and I hear them warn that the sky's

:23:19. > :23:21.about fall on our heads, or not inconsiderably likely

:23:22. > :23:24.to fall on our heads. The odds are lengthening

:23:25. > :23:30.considerably on an easy ride for the Brexit Bill,

:23:31. > :23:35.after the Lords this week in the committee stage passed

:23:36. > :23:37.a significant amendment protecting These people need to know now,

:23:38. > :23:46.not in two years' time, They simply can't put

:23:47. > :23:51.their lives on hold. Just as Brexit means Brexit, legally

:23:52. > :23:54.resident means legally resident. And were I in that position,

:23:55. > :23:59.I would be much more concerned to have a statutory right,

:24:00. > :24:03.than a political assurance. I borrowed a fiver off Michael,

:24:04. > :24:19.and when he wanted it back after ten seconds,

:24:20. > :24:23.he set the bailiffs on me. I just need one high stakes

:24:24. > :24:29.win to turn it round. Talking of high stakes,

:24:30. > :24:36.people in Northern Ireland went to the polls today to elect

:24:37. > :24:39.a new power-sharing executive, but tensions between the DUP

:24:40. > :24:41.and Sinn Fein mean forming that executive might be difficult,

:24:42. > :24:43.raising the possibility The Labour leader went

:24:44. > :25:04.on benefit cuts at PMQs Even up against jokes

:25:05. > :25:10.as bad as this. Withdraw this deep decision,

:25:11. > :25:12.this nasty decision, accept the court's judgment,

:25:13. > :25:14.and support those going through a very difficult

:25:15. > :25:18.time in their lives. After the result in Copeland last

:25:19. > :25:28.week, the honourable member for Lancaster and Fleetwood summed

:25:29. > :25:32.up the by-election result by saying it was an incredible result

:25:33. > :25:34.for the Labour Party. You know, I think that word actually

:25:35. > :25:37.describes the right honourable This is the EU's

:25:38. > :25:46.headquarters in London. They've got loads of money

:25:47. > :25:49.and experience dealing Ich bin ein desperado

:25:50. > :25:56.from This Week. They've sold it to

:25:57. > :26:05.the Tories already. I'm off to busk

:26:06. > :26:12.outside of Annabel's. They're not going to let him into

:26:13. > :26:31.Annabel's. And with us, a man who like everyone

:26:32. > :26:35.else who ends up on the This Week sofa, realises his career

:26:36. > :26:37.is done and dusted. Former SNP supremo in

:26:38. > :26:48.Chief, Alex Salmond. Liz, does the House of Lords vote

:26:49. > :26:51.matter? I hope it does. I hope it persuades some Conservative MPs to

:26:52. > :26:58.change their mind and back that amendment. I think it is the right

:26:59. > :27:02.thing to do for people who came here believing their future would be

:27:03. > :27:08.secure. It's actually right for our economy at the moment because we

:27:09. > :27:12.need EU citizens doing those jobs. I think it's also, if we did it, it

:27:13. > :27:15.would be a signal of goodwill in terms of the negotiations with the

:27:16. > :27:19.rest of Europe. Given all that, Labour's going to throw in the towel

:27:20. > :27:22.after one round of Ping-Pong, aren't they? Well, we accept the result of

:27:23. > :27:27.the referendum. I wish it was something otherwise but it is the

:27:28. > :27:30.referendum, it happened and I believe when we have referendums, we

:27:31. > :27:35.accept the result. The House of Lords vote then probably won't

:27:36. > :27:39.matter will it? Not if Labour raise the white flag on it. It's the

:27:40. > :27:44.weakest point of the Bill because there probably is a natural majority

:27:45. > :27:50.even in the Commons who if left to their own devices would choose that

:27:51. > :27:56.amendment. Of course, the point you make about resolve, if a Government

:27:57. > :27:58.is going to back down, they have to believe the opposition are going to

:27:59. > :28:03.take the matter all the way. And they don't. And therefore that is a

:28:04. > :28:08.big weakness. Nor do I accept, people say oh well that's the result

:28:09. > :28:11.of the referendum and it didn't on the ballot paper say European

:28:12. > :28:15.citizens low pressure their rights jeopardised, it didn't say we are

:28:16. > :28:17.coming out the single market. It's a perfectly legitimate case for

:28:18. > :28:22.putting the heat on the Government far, far more than the opposition is

:28:23. > :28:27.doing. The House of Lords is full of people who want a soft Brexit,

:28:28. > :28:30.rather than a hard Brexit. If you give away an important point before

:28:31. > :28:34.we have had a negotiation, it follows that the Brexit will be

:28:35. > :28:40.harder than it otherwise would be? It doesn't follow at all. I think it

:28:41. > :28:43.does. I agree about the gesture of goodwill. At the end of the day,

:28:44. > :28:48.everybody believes that the rights of European citizens in the UK and

:28:49. > :28:51.the rights of UK citizens in the European Union will not be

:28:52. > :28:56.jeopardised and will be protected. Therefore this is a kind of falses a

:28:57. > :29:00.Margaret Beckett of negotiations -- false aspect of negotiations. Then

:29:01. > :29:04.don't interfere with the Bill. Except of course that... It's very

:29:05. > :29:07.well for you to sit on the sofa and say that but for people who're at

:29:08. > :29:10.the hot end of this, you know, who've had their position described

:29:11. > :29:16.as a bargaining chip, my constituents do not see this as...

:29:17. > :29:19.Well, as Norman Tebbit said, you are worrying about people living in

:29:20. > :29:23.Britain without worrying about the British people. Actually, the more

:29:24. > :29:26.important amendment is about trying to get Parliament to have a

:29:27. > :29:32.meaningful vote on the final relationship. That's such humbug.

:29:33. > :29:36.It's not. How... That is the way that we I think do keep the pressure

:29:37. > :29:41.up on Theresa May not to have a hard Brexit. It also I think would

:29:42. > :29:45.strengthen her hand with the E usmt - I know you disagree - she would be

:29:46. > :29:50.able to say to them, the House won't support it if you give it a bad

:29:51. > :29:55.deal. That's what's so important about it. -- the EU. We spend years

:29:56. > :30:00.negotiating. At the end we get the best possible deal and it's brought

:30:01. > :30:04.back to Britain and Parliament says oh no, that's not good enough. The

:30:05. > :30:09.European Union will say, sorry, we didn't realise that the House of

:30:10. > :30:13.Commons wouldn't agree. MEPs can do much more to scrutinise what the

:30:14. > :30:16.Commission does. We are about to have many more powers by leaving the

:30:17. > :30:22.European Union. I would have thought you would have wanted British MPs to

:30:23. > :30:30.have the same power as MPs. Enough of Europe. Let's move on.

:30:31. > :30:39.Why isn't Nicola Sturgeon as keen as you tap a second independence

:30:40. > :30:43.referendum. I am sure there is no difference between us on that.

:30:44. > :30:47.Nicola is going about things the right way. She has offered

:30:48. > :30:51.compromise proposals which have been knocked down one by one. The last

:30:52. > :30:56.one is the proposal to keep Scotland in the single market even if the

:30:57. > :31:00.rest of the UK goes out, an argument which has been described as possible

:31:01. > :31:05.by a Cabinet minister. That is the one that the UK Government have

:31:06. > :31:10.still to respond to. If they do not respond in the way that she would

:31:11. > :31:16.like, will there be a second referendum? The criteria is to put

:31:17. > :31:20.it in as part of the negotiating position. My understanding is that

:31:21. > :31:26.they will not go that route. Forgive her if she waits for the decision. I

:31:27. > :31:31.was struck by a quote from a Downing Street source in the Times which

:31:32. > :31:34.said, we might have three constitutional crises together,

:31:35. > :31:38.Brexit, is Scottish referendum and direct rule in Northern Ireland. It

:31:39. > :31:43.was said as if these things were coming as an act of God. They are

:31:44. > :31:49.within the ability of Downing Street to have them altogether or not. But

:31:50. > :31:54.I asked if, in your view, there would be a second independence

:31:55. > :31:58.referendum. If the government sweeps aside the compromise proposal from

:31:59. > :32:02.Nicola Sturgeon, if they are not interested in the view of the

:32:03. > :32:07.Scottish parliament, jobs, security in the marketplace, then in Nicola

:32:08. > :32:12.Sturgeon's bone words, a referendum becomes very likely. But she is not

:32:13. > :32:16.going to call for a second referendum unless she thinks she can

:32:17. > :32:20.win. There is evidence that there is more support for that now than there

:32:21. > :32:26.was previously. That is a real political problem. Two thirds of

:32:27. > :32:35.people do not want a second referendum. That is not true either.

:32:36. > :32:38.Two thirds of people do not want a second referendum and it looks like

:32:39. > :32:44.it would be the same result, and that is a real problem for the SNP.

:32:45. > :32:49.There have been 18 polls since the Brexit vote. 17 out of 18 have shown

:32:50. > :32:56.support for independence on a binary choice higher than it was in

:32:57. > :33:02.September 2000 and 14. They still show a minority, though. Not all of

:33:03. > :33:11.them. But on a poll of polls it would still be... About 47, 40 8%.

:33:12. > :33:16.The last one was 49%. I recall the independence referendum was 28% for

:33:17. > :33:25.a yes vote back in 2012. If I was prepared to do it at 28%, I do not

:33:26. > :33:28.think Nicola Sturgeon would mind at 47%. But she has always contended

:33:29. > :33:32.there would only be a second referendum if it was the clear will

:33:33. > :33:39.of the Scottish people and the polls do not show that. The manifesto

:33:40. > :33:44.commitment from last year when she was elected with 47% of the vote was

:33:45. > :33:47.that the Scottish parliament should have the right to hold a referendum

:33:48. > :33:52.if Scotland is faced with being dragged out of Europe against the

:33:53. > :33:57.will of the Scottish people. That is a clear mandate. I interviewed her

:33:58. > :34:01.and she said we will have won if the Scottish people want one. The only

:34:02. > :34:10.way to judge that is from the polls, which are quite clear that they do

:34:11. > :34:15.not want one. I think if we gained as much ground as we did in the last

:34:16. > :34:21.referendum... I am talking about having a referendum. Nicola has

:34:22. > :34:24.described the chances of another referendum in the event of that

:34:25. > :34:29.compromise proposal not being accepted or included in the UK

:34:30. > :34:34.negotiating position as very likely. With respect to the Westminster

:34:35. > :34:40.observers, you would be very foolish to underrate the resolve of Nicola

:34:41. > :34:43.Sturgeon. Are you up for a second referendum? I find it extraordinary

:34:44. > :34:48.that the UK Government has managed to put itself in a position where

:34:49. > :34:51.apparently the SNP can call a referendum whenever it feels the

:34:52. > :34:57.opinion polls are drifting in its direction. The incompetence involved

:34:58. > :35:00.in the UK legislation that enabled the first referendum is

:35:01. > :35:05.extraordinary. Alex said, when the first referendum result was

:35:06. > :35:09.concluded, that it was settled for a generation, and many people would

:35:10. > :35:11.feel cheated that the SNP view is that whenever opinion polls swing in

:35:12. > :35:18.their direction they would like another referendum. You do not

:35:19. > :35:22.dispute the event from the SNP manifesto, that the Scottish

:35:23. > :35:27.Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum. It is clear

:35:28. > :35:33.enough. It is clear but we are not bound to agree with it. You said at

:35:34. > :35:39.the time that it was settled for a generation. Yes, but that was last

:35:40. > :35:42.year. Yes, and now you are saying something else. Last year in the

:35:43. > :35:48.manifesto for the Scottish elections, Nicola Sturgeon put

:35:49. > :35:54.forward that proposition. You have kicked yourself ever since you said

:35:55. > :35:58.it was settled for a generation. You made one mistake when you said it

:35:59. > :36:04.was for a generation and another when you left the leadership. I have

:36:05. > :36:07.made many mistakes. What if the Westminster government says, if you

:36:08. > :36:14.want a second referendum, you should have one, but you can't have one

:36:15. > :36:18.until the Brexit deal is done, until the Scottish people know what the

:36:19. > :36:24.choice is, Britain out of the EU on these terms, or independence? On a

:36:25. > :36:28.clear manifesto commitment, if there is a majority in the Scottish

:36:29. > :36:32.Parliament, my view is that the boat sailed when David Cameron first

:36:33. > :36:39.resisted the idea of a Scottish referendum. You have a referendum

:36:40. > :36:45.before we knew the terms of Brexit? The soonest we go have a referendum

:36:46. > :36:52.is next autumn. The shape of the Brexit deal will be done. Not the

:36:53. > :36:56.way that Europe operates. It would be the prospect of a certain

:36:57. > :37:00.European future against the uncertainty of Brexit, which seems

:37:01. > :37:10.an appealing prospect on which to hold a referendum. John McDonnell

:37:11. > :37:15.thinks there is a soft coup under way against the late -- Labour

:37:16. > :37:19.leadership, so he's inviting Peter Mandelson ran for tea, a euphemism

:37:20. > :37:25.for breaking his legs. Here, a cup of tea means just that, and to keep

:37:26. > :37:30.this well oiled machine running cast and crew have to abide by civilised

:37:31. > :37:34.norms. No kneeling on the sofas, no knee capping and no Pete Doherty.

:37:35. > :37:41.That is why we are putting codes of conduct in the spotlight.

:37:42. > :37:45.Parliament is a place where politicians fight.

:37:46. > :37:48.I think that word actually describes the right honourable

:37:49. > :37:59.But do codes of conduct keep scraps good, clean fun?

:38:00. > :38:01.Not for Labour's Mary Creagh on Tuesday.

:38:02. > :38:03.I would urge her not to be hysterical about

:38:04. > :38:08.I expect that sort of language from the sketch writers

:38:09. > :38:10.of the Daily Mail, not from the Chancellor

:38:11. > :38:17.What are the rules when it comes to clashes between

:38:18. > :38:21.Nigel Farage gave Ukip's sole MP, Douglas Carswell,

:38:22. > :38:26.I dislike him because he damaged me, Ukip and the Leave campaign.

:38:27. > :38:30.I've been campaigning to get rid of him for a very long time.

:38:31. > :38:40.Meanwhile, Donald Trump continued to tear up

:38:41. > :38:45.the civilised rules of engagement between politicians and press.

:38:46. > :38:48.They say that we can't criticise their dishonest coverage

:38:49. > :38:53.You know, they always bring up "the first amendment".

:38:54. > :38:56.But the Donald upheld a collegiate code when he called for politicians

:38:57. > :39:00.to set aside their differences for the sake of the nation during

:39:01. > :39:06.Democrats and Republicans should get together and unite

:39:07. > :39:11.As did parliamentarians and journalists, for charity,

:39:12. > :39:24.# Sound boy, Rodigan no inna no fuss and fight.#

:39:25. > :39:26.Clashes are reggae DJ David Rodigan's bread-and-butter.

:39:27. > :39:31.So are codes of conduct essential to keeping competition fun

:39:32. > :39:56.Welcome to the prop -- programme. You specialise in sound clash. Does

:39:57. > :40:01.it have a code of conduct? Definitely, stretching back over 60

:40:02. > :40:07.years. Jamaicans love contest. In the late 50s and rolling into the

:40:08. > :40:11.1960s, enormous mobile discos would travel around entertaining local

:40:12. > :40:17.communities. They were powered and driven by acetate switch were

:40:18. > :40:20.exclusive recordings. Then they started importing records from

:40:21. > :40:24.America and then making their own records. And the essence of this

:40:25. > :40:29.culture is that ultimately boils down to contest, who can draw the

:40:30. > :40:33.biggest crowd. The quality of the sound system and teams of sound

:40:34. > :40:38.system players, at least half a dozen, they'll have a job to do. In

:40:39. > :40:45.later years, that lead to actual clashing. Thousands would turn up

:40:46. > :40:47.for these. They have them in New York, Jamaica, Japan. It is a

:40:48. > :40:53.worldwide phenomenon, incredibly popular. To watch an Italian sound

:40:54. > :40:59.system crashing against German sound systems is something to behold. They

:41:00. > :41:05.are that obsessed with the culture. And they follow a code of conduct.

:41:06. > :41:08.The rules are clear. You have to have a spokesperson for your sound

:41:09. > :41:13.system. They are called a Mike person. And they have too referred

:41:14. > :41:21.to the track that has just been played. If you go to the grand

:41:22. > :41:24.finale, the one for one, there is an elimination process with six or

:41:25. > :41:30.eight sound systems and you are left with two. It lasts for five hours

:41:31. > :41:33.and you are left with two, a play-off. They played the best of

:41:34. > :41:40.ten and every recording has to be unique and have then a minute. So

:41:41. > :41:45.all of this has been customised. If your competitor plays a song by

:41:46. > :41:50.Johnny Osborne, your speech has to connect to that track, the rhythm

:41:51. > :41:53.track, or something that would lead you and your team to playing a

:41:54. > :41:58.better Johnny Osborne, or a reaction to that Johnny Osborne. The speech

:41:59. > :42:02.is all-important and it can sometimes get a bigger forward, a

:42:03. > :42:07.Jamaican expression for a response from the crowd, than the record. The

:42:08. > :42:14.speaker is very important. Listening to you, if this has rules of

:42:15. > :42:17.conduct, which seems like a clash without rules, it seems that

:42:18. > :42:25.everything needs rules of conduct in some way, to work. Of course. That

:42:26. > :42:28.is how it works best. It is when people break the rules of conduct

:42:29. > :42:32.and punch below the belt and make unnecessary comments because they

:42:33. > :42:36.are lost for words and do not know what to say in connection to the

:42:37. > :42:43.music... What draws people to the clash is how exclusive the music is.

:42:44. > :42:47.Is the arbiter of the crowd? Absolutely. Thousands of die-hard

:42:48. > :42:56.fans will stand in Brooklyn from 9pm until 4am. They will not like it if

:42:57. > :43:01.you break the rules. They do not like it. Sometimes the race card is

:43:02. > :43:09.used, personal comments are made, and the crowd react accordingly. You

:43:10. > :43:15.love it, don't you? We should go on a trip to see one. It is phenomenal.

:43:16. > :43:19.I got into it with a fellow broadcaster. I worked for the BBC on

:43:20. > :43:24.Sunday evenings and years ago I started working with a colleague in

:43:25. > :43:31.Jamaica and we did a radio clash. Where can we see you next? In a

:43:32. > :43:34.field somewhere this summer. I did not want to bring them in because

:43:35. > :43:37.they did not know what you were talking about, and they were

:43:38. > :43:40.learning something, which is always useful.

:43:41. > :43:43.Now, that's your lot for tonight bruvs, but not for dis crew.

:43:44. > :43:46.We be reppin hard at ma girl LouLou's crib innit.

:43:47. > :43:52.I have strictly no idea what I'm saying.

:43:53. > :43:54.For those of you who can't hack the pace of an all-

:43:55. > :43:59.nighter, we leave you with the settling sounds of Melania Trump

:44:00. > :44:06.reading to children at a New York Hospital.

:44:07. > :44:09.Nighty night, don't let Dr Seuss, or for that matter,

:44:10. > :44:27.I came here to encourage everyone to read and to

:44:28. > :44:37.just think about the books and what you want to achieve in life.

:44:38. > :45:00.You can steer yourself any directions you choose.

:45:01. > :45:06.You're too smart to go down any too so good street.