:00:07. > :00:12.Two people shot outside the Westminster Parliament.
:00:13. > :00:20.Westminster is in a state of emergency tonight after
:00:21. > :00:27.what the Metropolitan Police described as a terror incident.
:00:28. > :00:29.It is the worst attack in London since
:00:30. > :00:40.Tonight on This Week, violence, terror and death descend on the
:00:41. > :00:44.Four people are killed and scores injured by an
:00:45. > :00:54.Counter extreme expert Jonathan Russell tells us why
:00:55. > :00:56.the threat here is more dangerous and unpredictable than ever.
:00:57. > :00:58.The security services can't do this alone.
:00:59. > :01:00.This attack shows Sweeney Day full spectrum counter extreme is
:01:01. > :01:05.strategy involving all sectors of society.
:01:06. > :01:08.Parliament was suspended, Westminster locked down.
:01:09. > :01:12.The Daily Mail's Parliamentary sketch writer,
:01:13. > :01:15.Quentin Letts, suddenly became a front line reporter, as he watched
:01:16. > :01:32.At the gates of our Parliament I saw a stabbing, shots
:01:33. > :01:34.being fired, but our democracy being bravely defended.
:01:35. > :01:36.And today, as millions of Londoners and MPs
:01:37. > :01:38.returned to work and went about their daily business,
:01:39. > :01:40.Simon Callow puts resilience in tonight's
:01:41. > :01:45.Whatever the Westminster attacker thought he was doing
:01:46. > :01:52.yesterday, the effect will be, has been, the exact opposite.
:01:53. > :01:58.Sudden, violent death is now a part of life
:01:59. > :02:06.across the world, and here is no exception.
:02:07. > :02:18.Keith Palmer had been a copper for 15 years.
:02:19. > :02:22.A husband, dad, brother, uncle, public servant.
:02:23. > :02:25.Before joining the police he'd been in the Army.
:02:26. > :02:30.Yesterday he was murdered defending our democracy.
:02:31. > :02:32.Defending the very heart of our democracy from
:02:33. > :02:40.Reminding us of something that we badly needed reminding -
:02:41. > :02:43.that the most important people in this country are not the rich,
:02:44. > :02:47.But those who run to confront the enemies of our civilisation
:02:48. > :02:51.while the rest of us are running away.
:02:52. > :02:57.Brutally stabbed to death by a jumped-up jihadi not fit
:02:58. > :03:01.to breathe the same air as the man he killed.
:03:02. > :03:04.Now, I know there are still some Jihadi Johnnies out there who think
:03:05. > :03:07.they will eventually triumph because their love of death
:03:08. > :03:16.Do you have any idea who you're dealing with?!
:03:17. > :03:20.This is the country that stood up alone to the might of the Luftwaffe,
:03:21. > :03:26.airforce of the greatest evil mankind has ever known.
:03:27. > :03:30.If you think we're now going to be cowed by some pathetic Poundland
:03:31. > :03:33.terrorist in an estate car with a knife then you're
:03:34. > :03:42.Sometimes the hurt is more than we can bear.
:03:43. > :03:47.Because for every brainwashed, brain-dead Islamist you send to do
:03:48. > :03:54.us harm we have thousands upon thousands of Keith Palmers.
:03:55. > :03:57.You'll find them in every walk of life, in every part of the land.
:03:58. > :04:01.They come in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all faiths.
:04:02. > :04:08.And against them, you will never prevail.
:04:09. > :04:22.I'm joined on the sofa tonight, yet again, by a two-fingered
:04:23. > :04:28.Your thoughts. It coincided with the death of Martin McGuinness which was
:04:29. > :04:34.-- was a reminder that London has sustained many tens of terrorist
:04:35. > :04:40.deaths. They were killed in the Hilton hotel, at Harrods, in the
:04:41. > :04:45.parks, the Palace of Westminster, there were bombs at Canary Wharf, a
:04:46. > :04:55.huge bomb in the city. And Londoners became in your debt to terror. --
:04:56. > :04:57.they've became used to terror. And I felt yesterday that Londoners
:04:58. > :05:05.quickly recovered that resilience they had had before. I was struck
:05:06. > :05:09.how yesterday evening, on the whole, despite great sorrow and shock, on
:05:10. > :05:18.the whole London was back to its normal self. I walked out of
:05:19. > :05:21.Westminster Station at 2:45pm and came up except seven to come out in
:05:22. > :05:28.Whitehall and saw people looking behind me. I suddenly heard coppers
:05:29. > :05:33.running everywhere, saw the doors of one Parliament St, where my office
:05:34. > :05:41.is, shut. So the lockdown happened very quickly. So I couldn't go in
:05:42. > :05:47.and I stood and observed. The police cordon wasn't there and there were
:05:48. > :05:50.rumours flying about. Two people involved, three points of attack.
:05:51. > :05:56.And all of the people walking around did not know what was going to
:05:57. > :05:59.happen next. My staff inside, who stayed locked in for five hours,
:06:00. > :06:05.were worried that someone was marauding through the houses of
:06:06. > :06:10.Parliament. So it was a really difficult situation. I saw the
:06:11. > :06:21.police go in, I saw the helicopter land. And gradually, picking up
:06:22. > :06:25.rumours, Evan Davis turned up. We were picking up rumours and
:06:26. > :06:28.gradually the police cordon went further back-up Whitehall. I was
:06:29. > :06:34.probably better being locked out than I was being locked in. I was
:06:35. > :06:37.free to go where I wanted. I hope I do not have a political moment like
:06:38. > :06:39.that in a hurry because it was very scary.
:06:40. > :06:41.The man behind yesterday's terrorist attack was
:06:42. > :06:44.He was born in Kent and lived in the West Midlands.
:06:45. > :06:47.He was known to the police and convicted of a number
:06:48. > :06:51.There was a time when he was also on MI5's radar
:06:52. > :06:55.He was never wanted or arrested for terrorism-related offences.
:06:56. > :06:59.But today Islamic State claimed Mahmood as one of its "soldiers"
:07:00. > :07:03.who had responded to its call to attack Coalition countries,
:07:04. > :07:07.like Britain, which are helping local forces destroy Islamic State
:07:08. > :07:12.As terror attacks go it was pretty unprofessional, one petty criminal,
:07:13. > :07:19.A far cry from the well-armed, well-trained, well-orchestrated
:07:20. > :07:25.terrorist attacks on the Bataclan and Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
:07:26. > :07:28.As its dreams of a Caliphate crash in the sands of the Levant,
:07:29. > :07:32.perhaps IS is becoming more of a threat to the West.
:07:33. > :07:35.But does it still have the capability to cause substantial
:07:36. > :07:39.damage or is it increasingly dependent on deranged loners?
:07:40. > :07:41.Here's counter terrorism expert Jonathan Russell
:07:42. > :07:58.Yesterday, central London was brought to a terrifying halt.
:07:59. > :08:01.Ironically, it was probably inspired by an organisation on the cusp
:08:02. > :08:14.Isis has been on the retreat in Iraq and Syria, suffering territorial
:08:15. > :08:18.losses, cash shortages and a dwindling supply
:08:19. > :08:23.As its operational space reduces, Isis fighters have been driven
:08:24. > :08:27.underground and back to their countries of origin.
:08:28. > :08:33.As Isis face worsening fortunes in the Middle East,
:08:34. > :08:36.we are likely to see more attacks elsewhere, particularly
:08:37. > :08:44.Isis has made no secret of its desire to attack Britain.
:08:45. > :08:47.Yes, we are an island with strict gun laws,
:08:48. > :08:53.which makes a centrally organised, sophisticated attack tricky.
:08:54. > :08:56.But what we have seen over the last six months
:08:57. > :08:58.is the emergence of low tech, high impact terrorism.
:08:59. > :09:03.With attacks that can be planned and executed within hours,
:09:04. > :09:10.The UK security services have done a good job preventing centrally
:09:11. > :09:13.organised terrorism, but stopping rudimentary attacks
:09:14. > :09:15.is all that more difficult, because trucks, cars and knives
:09:16. > :09:24.We now know the attacker yesterday was Khalid Masood, British-born,
:09:25. > :09:27.had a history of criminality, and though investigated
:09:28. > :09:30.for his links to violent extremism, was not part
:09:31. > :09:37.The real concern is people like this, beneath the radar,
:09:38. > :09:40.many of them self-starter terrorists, radicalised
:09:41. > :09:50.in their bedrooms while watching videos online.
:09:51. > :09:52.The UK needs to do more to prevent such radicalisation,
:09:53. > :09:56.by strengthening our counter extremism strategy, building
:09:57. > :10:01.grass-roots resilience and training skilled intervention providers
:10:02. > :10:18.If we don't, this attack marks just the beginning.
:10:19. > :10:26.And Jonathan Russell from the Quilliam Foundation is with us now.
:10:27. > :10:32.So jihadists like Masood are tougher for the intelligence services to
:10:33. > :10:38.crack. No networks, no chatter, no guns. But they are also more limited
:10:39. > :10:44.in the carnage they can cause. Is that the way that things are going?
:10:45. > :10:47.Absolutely. If you ask the security services they will be more worried
:10:48. > :10:56.about marauding Terrorism Act firearms attacks, as happened in
:10:57. > :11:01.Paris. There will be a really high victim count and it would be a
:11:02. > :11:04.dreadful situation. However, most of these things require cells and
:11:05. > :11:12.coordination, some level of sophisticated planning. Much harder
:11:13. > :11:15.to detect, according to security services, are these lone actor,
:11:16. > :11:20.unsophisticated, rudimentary weapon attacks like yesterday from Masood.
:11:21. > :11:26.We are talking about people beneath the radar, radicalised in their
:11:27. > :11:31.bedrooms. Can counterterrorist organisations do much to stop that?
:11:32. > :11:38.If all you need is a car and a carving knife, how do you stop that?
:11:39. > :11:41.I don't think security services can do that alone, which is why we talk
:11:42. > :11:45.about trying to prevent people wanting to do that in the first
:11:46. > :11:50.place, which is where counter extremists coming, but also the rest
:11:51. > :11:55.of society. Teachers, youth workers, prison officers, police officers,
:11:56. > :11:58.who have day-to-day contact with vulnerable individuals can start
:11:59. > :12:04.intervene, spotting signs of radicalisation and turning people
:12:05. > :12:07.down different paths. You need the help of communities. Communities
:12:08. > :12:11.have a really important role, because they have relationships with
:12:12. > :12:16.the vulnerable, and for the most part do not want to see this type of
:12:17. > :12:21.violence. It is a new challenge for security services because when it is
:12:22. > :12:25.better organised there is chatter online and in social media. If they
:12:26. > :12:30.need guns, we are very good at tracking guns and getting them down.
:12:31. > :12:34.We have very sophisticated surveillance. But if it is just some
:12:35. > :12:38.guy in his bedroom being radicalised online, that's a different
:12:39. > :12:44.challenge. Jonathan is right about this strand of Event, which has been
:12:45. > :12:52.quite controversial since it was introduced as part of the strategy
:12:53. > :12:58.on counterterrorism. -- Prevent. It has improved over time but it would
:12:59. > :13:02.be perverse not to have a strategy to prevent, because that really is
:13:03. > :13:05.about intelligence picked up from teachers, from community workers,
:13:06. > :13:11.from people who walk out to tell their local neighbourhood policing
:13:12. > :13:16.team, a PCS oh, it is amazing how much of that intelligence came
:13:17. > :13:20.through to counter intelligence. There are very few lone wolves, and
:13:21. > :13:29.now eight people have been arrested around this guy. It is very rare
:13:30. > :13:32.that there is a lone wolf. There is usually someone else involved. If
:13:33. > :13:36.more people are involved, more people pick up what is going on.
:13:37. > :13:42.Jonathan is right, that has to be the major area of concern. And for
:13:43. > :13:48.the whole of the population. I think there is one element of this, Isis
:13:49. > :13:54.have lost 60% of their territory in Iraq, 25% in Syria. As that warped
:13:55. > :13:58.appeal to younger people, their success, suddenly flying that black
:13:59. > :14:03.flag everywhere, that might help in the sense of not radicalising
:14:04. > :14:09.younger people, because they are suddenly seen to be defeated and
:14:10. > :14:13.losers. It is a new challenge for the intelligence services. The thing
:14:14. > :14:20.we have been most worried about is the returning jihadi professional,
:14:21. > :14:26.the battle hardened one, the trained one in guns and techniques, the kind
:14:27. > :14:30.of people who were at Charlie Hebdo, they seemed very professional. It
:14:31. > :14:35.looks like so far our intelligence services have done a good job of
:14:36. > :14:38.keeping on top of that. About 13 potential attacks worth watered by
:14:39. > :14:46.them, something you never quite here, but really important. -- they
:14:47. > :14:49.were watered. Yes, it might seem trite in light of this tragedy, but
:14:50. > :14:55.in a way this is the right problem to have. If the terrorist is being
:14:56. > :14:59.driven towards lone wolves who are less sophisticated and can inflict
:15:00. > :15:06.less damage, then that is the right problem to have. One must did use,
:15:07. > :15:11.by the fact that we have not had an incident of scale since 1995, while
:15:12. > :15:17.other countries in Europe have had many incidents of great scale, we
:15:18. > :15:21.must infer that our security services have been pretty much on
:15:22. > :15:32.top of this, and we should rejoice in that. 2005. Yes, but we must
:15:33. > :15:35.rejoice that they have done, we can infer that they have done an
:15:36. > :15:40.extraordinary good job. In coming days I am sure there will be
:15:41. > :15:43.criticisms, maybe even in this programme, at least some questions
:15:44. > :15:47.raised about security. But let that not obscure the fact that the
:15:48. > :15:53.intelligence services must have done a remarkable job.
:15:54. > :15:59.As Islamic state loses men, treasure, land, does that undermine
:16:00. > :16:12.its capacity to be able to attack the West? If it's on the back foot
:16:13. > :16:18.out there, does not undermine its ability to do bad things here? The
:16:19. > :16:21.first angle that could increase things is a returnee load of
:16:22. > :16:26.fighters. That would affect the continent more than the UK because
:16:27. > :16:31.of the free-flow of people. The second thing that could reduce
:16:32. > :16:35.things is this hypocrisy element, the sense that they are failing and
:16:36. > :16:40.that they are losers. I think however Isis are very good at
:16:41. > :16:46.spinning out of these sorts of things with their propaganda,
:16:47. > :16:52.they've dropped all reference, for example, to the centrality of the
:16:53. > :16:56.caliphate and they are talking more about a digital caliphate these
:16:57. > :17:02.days. I would hope that we can all work together to say that this is
:17:03. > :17:07.proof that the Jihadist model and the Jihadist experiment is a failure
:17:08. > :17:11.and that might be subsequently less appealing to our youngsters who're
:17:12. > :17:16.in the process of being radicalised or exploited.
:17:17. > :17:20.But I would say that as it's seen as a failure, if we don't go after that
:17:21. > :17:24.ideaology and broader narrative, people might see attacks in the UK
:17:25. > :17:29.as a viable alternative to travelling for terrorism. Going out
:17:30. > :17:35.to Syria and Iraq and so on. It may be that Islamic state, for the
:17:36. > :17:38.reasons you have given, becomes less attractive to radicalising our
:17:39. > :17:44.citizens here and they go and fight there. But a lot have already done
:17:45. > :17:47.that and a lot have come back, Thirlwall trained, we assume still
:17:48. > :17:51.radicalised. The Intelligence Services will know who these people
:17:52. > :17:56.are, but of course, as the IRA said in the Brighton bomb, we have to be
:17:57. > :18:01.right every day, they only have to be right one day? Yes, but I think
:18:02. > :18:07.we are right and Michael's right. Harriet Harman made this point in
:18:08. > :18:10.Parliament, he failed in his attempt. I think that Jonathan is
:18:11. > :18:15.right, it's more of a problem for Europe than it is for us in the
:18:16. > :18:21.sense that we have a much firmer control of our border and who is
:18:22. > :18:24.returning and we can't follow everyone 24 hours a day, but
:18:25. > :18:30.certainly these people returning will be a major source of
:18:31. > :18:37.observation and scrutiny. But isn't the harsh reality, Jonathan, we have
:18:38. > :18:41.had the Muslim Brotherhood in years gone by, Al-Qaeda, Islamic state,
:18:42. > :18:46.and even if this is the beginning of the end for Islamic state,
:18:47. > :18:49.particularly in the Middle East, there is always the high possibility
:18:50. > :18:57.that something else will take its place? Of course, yes. This remains
:18:58. > :19:01.a generational struggle. I think Isis will be seen as a blip within a
:19:02. > :19:05.Jihadist trend and I think therefore we need to get to grips with the
:19:06. > :19:09.arguments of the Muslim Brotherhood that continue to fly beneath the
:19:10. > :19:12.radar. I'm not saying we should ban an organisation like the Muslim
:19:13. > :19:17.Brotherhood, but we should understand that they have, you know,
:19:18. > :19:21.they create an atmosphere condusive to this sort of rubbish. Therefore
:19:22. > :19:28.we need to find a different sort of tiered response to these sorts of
:19:29. > :19:30.groups. All right. Don't go away, we'll come back to you.
:19:31. > :19:34.Now it's late, cup of tea and carry on late, for London is gutsy,
:19:35. > :19:37.From the reopening of Westminster Bridge to displays
:19:38. > :19:40.at tube stations with messages of hope to flowers at
:19:41. > :19:43.the National Police memorial, this great city still stands strong.
:19:44. > :19:46.In that spirit, it's only fitting that waiting in the wings
:19:47. > :19:48.is actor Simon Callow, here to put resilience
:19:49. > :19:53.As ever, join the Snapchatter, throw on your Fleecebook
:19:54. > :20:00.Londoners going about their daily business, tourists from all over
:20:01. > :20:03.the world, an American couple celebrating their 25th
:20:04. > :20:06.wedding anniversary, French children on a school trip
:20:07. > :20:12.Those are just some of the victims who bore the brunt of yesterday's
:20:13. > :20:14.attack, innocent civilians minding their own business
:20:15. > :20:17.on the glory that is Westminster Bridge.
:20:18. > :20:20.Tonight we learned that that one of them, a 75-year-old man,
:20:21. > :20:22.has died, taking the death toll to four, plus the attacker,
:20:23. > :20:29.His path of destruction led him through their lives
:20:30. > :20:31.and onto the Parliamentary estate where he was shot dead
:20:32. > :20:41.MPs and Lords were told to stay in their respective chambers whilst
:20:42. > :20:44.parliamentary staff, journalists and visitors rushed
:20:45. > :20:49.The Daily Mail's sketch-writer, Quentin Letts, was one of the first
:20:50. > :20:51.to give an eyewitness account from his desk
:20:52. > :21:00.I am now going to suspend the sitting of the House.
:21:01. > :21:03.This House is now suspended but please wait here.
:21:04. > :21:07.There has been a serious incident within the estate.
:21:08. > :21:32.It seems that a police officer has been stabbed.
:21:33. > :21:40.It wasn't that way yesterday before an atrocity in which three people
:21:41. > :21:44.were killed by a terrorist attacker who was himself then shot dead.
:21:45. > :21:53.From my office window, I watched the ghastly events unfold.
:21:54. > :21:56.Our Parliament, our values under attack.
:21:57. > :21:59.At 3 o'clock yesterday, politics across the kingdom
:22:00. > :22:05.Politics just fades into the background on a day like today.
:22:06. > :22:09.Clearly, so many people in the Scottish Parliament have
:22:10. > :22:11.friends, colleagues in Westminster, many people in Scotland have friends
:22:12. > :22:16.working in London and therefore, as a mark of respect,
:22:17. > :22:19.not because of any increased threat to the Scottish Parliament,
:22:20. > :22:22.but as a mark of respect and solidarity, the decision
:22:23. > :22:34.to suspend business was absolutely the right one.
:22:35. > :22:37.I have just chaired a meeting of the Government's emergency
:22:38. > :22:41.committee COBRA following the sick and depraved terrorist
:22:42. > :22:46.attack on the streets of our capital this afternoon.
:22:47. > :22:50.The full details of exactly what happened are still emerging.
:22:51. > :22:53.But having been updated by police and security officials,
:22:54. > :22:58.I can confirm that this appalling incident began when a single
:22:59. > :23:02.attacker drove his vehicle into pedestrians walking
:23:03. > :23:07.across Westminster Bridge, killing two people and injuring many more,
:23:08. > :23:18.But a heavy police presence and sombre MPs made it
:23:19. > :23:21.clear we were some way from business as usual.
:23:22. > :23:26.We shall now observe a minutes' silence.
:23:27. > :23:37.A full House of Commons amazingly quiet heard Theresa May,
:23:38. > :23:42.this implacable Prime Minister, urge us to go about our business
:23:43. > :23:48.as usual and Jeremy Corbyn firmly spoke of solidarity and humanity.
:23:49. > :23:54.In scenes repeated in towns and cities across the country,
:23:55. > :23:57.millions of people are going about their days and getting
:23:58. > :24:02.The streets are as busy as ever, the offices full, the coffee
:24:03. > :24:06.As I speak, millions will be boarding trains and aeroplanes
:24:07. > :24:09.to travel to London and to see for themselves the
:24:10. > :24:14.It is in these actions, millions of acts of normality,
:24:15. > :24:18.that we find the best response to terrorism.
:24:19. > :24:22.Look after each other, help one another and think of one another.
:24:23. > :24:27.It is by demonstrating our values, solidarity, community, humanity
:24:28. > :24:34.and love, that we will defeat the poison and division of hatred.
:24:35. > :24:39.People who commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam do not speak
:24:40. > :24:45.for the Muslims in this country, do not speak for the Muslims
:24:46. > :24:49.in this City and certainly do not speak for me.
:24:50. > :24:52.We must not allow, in the coming days and weeks, anyone to try
:24:53. > :24:57.and divide our country on the basis of faith or nationality
:24:58. > :25:03.With your indulgence, Sir, I would like to turn for just
:25:04. > :25:08.a moment to PC Keith Palmer who I first met 25 years ago
:25:09. > :25:10.as Gunner Keith Palmer at Headquarters Battery 100
:25:11. > :25:18.He was a strong, professional public servant and it was a delight
:25:19. > :25:32.to meet him here again only a few months after being elected.
:25:33. > :25:37.And less than three hours before the attack, frontbenchers
:25:38. > :25:42.in the House of Commons paid tribute to a former Sinn Fein leader to many
:25:43. > :25:46.MPs heard those tributes in cold silence.
:25:47. > :25:50.And I would like to express my condolences to the family
:25:51. > :25:52.and colleagues of the former Deputy First Minister
:25:53. > :25:54.of Northern Ireland, Martin McGuinness.
:25:55. > :25:57.Of course, we do not condone or justify the path he took
:25:58. > :26:01.in the earlier part of his life and we should never forget that,
:26:02. > :26:08.However, as my Noble Friend Lord Trimble set out yesterday,
:26:09. > :26:11.he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement
:26:12. > :26:15.away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building
:26:16. > :26:20.Martin played an immeasurable role in bringing about peace
:26:21. > :26:23.in Northern Ireland and it's that peace that we all want to see endure
:26:24. > :26:26.for all-time for all people in Northern Ireland.
:26:27. > :26:35.Before all this happened, the week had also brought
:26:36. > :26:40.Labour Party tensions, revival of Scottish
:26:41. > :26:45.independence talk and a setting of a date for Article 50.
:26:46. > :26:50.Terrorism is an intrusion, an outrage, but it's
:26:51. > :27:12.Normal service will be resumed whatever our enemies think.
:27:13. > :27:21.Jonathan Russell is still with us. Alan, former Home Secretary, while
:27:22. > :27:29.the police on the main gate into Parliament -- why are the police on
:27:30. > :27:35.the main gate into Parliament not armed? They're the second line of
:27:36. > :27:43.defence. Keith Palmer, you walk past him and say morning to him, he was
:27:44. > :27:46.the unarmed person. Before 9/11, in about 97, there was no security at
:27:47. > :27:51.all, you could walk through with your constituents. I I remember the
:27:52. > :27:56.days you could walk up 10 Downing Street. Yes, so it's been a gradual
:27:57. > :27:59.process. The police on the gates, in many ways, they're a tourist
:28:00. > :28:02.attraction, they have they photographs taken with tourists over
:28:03. > :28:08.and over again. They are a part of coming to Parliament. I think there
:28:09. > :28:11.was a reluctance to put armed police in that position, but know of course
:28:12. > :28:15.it might change. I think it probably will change. But these are the gates
:28:16. > :28:19.that open and close quite a lot, cars are going in and out,
:28:20. > :28:22.particularly at times of votes, ministers rush back, then rush back
:28:23. > :28:27.to their departments. I mean there was a time in the immediate
:28:28. > :28:30.aftermath of what happened yesterday when the gate remained open, indeed
:28:31. > :28:35.one report in the Times suggested that a courier came through to
:28:36. > :28:42.deliver a package? I mean, we know what it could have been? ! Yes, that
:28:43. > :28:47.is exactly right. I mean, one doesn't want to get into loose talk
:28:48. > :28:52.here, but let me say this, I would like to be reassured that there's
:28:53. > :28:56.absolutely joined up strategies for defending Parliament and I mean the
:28:57. > :29:00.interior, the outside, threats from the air, threats from the water,
:29:01. > :29:05.threats from the land. I think almost certainly the way the gate is
:29:06. > :29:12.guarded will change. The news this evening, if it's true that the
:29:13. > :29:15.terrorist was actually shot by Michael Fallon's protection officer,
:29:16. > :29:19.raises another set of questions about how quickly the team that were
:29:20. > :29:22.meant to be there got there, so there are lots of questions that
:29:23. > :29:26.need to be raised. It really does need to be joined up. I'm going back
:29:27. > :29:34.a very long time but I will say when I was there, I was worried that it
:29:35. > :29:36.wasn't completely joined up then, in particular the internal and external
:29:37. > :29:41.threats were not considered together. That courier van couldn't
:29:42. > :29:45.have got through, there was a vote on at time, so the bells were
:29:46. > :29:51.ringing, there was a division and they opened the gates. Otherwise
:29:52. > :29:55.there would be another security problem. I suspect this was
:29:56. > :30:01.fortuitous on the part of the terrorist. Yes, it wasn't planned.
:30:02. > :30:05.But coincided with the vote it led to the gates being opened and of
:30:06. > :30:15.course to the Prime Minister being mobile.
:30:16. > :30:21.We were reporting earlier that the attacker was killed by the Defence
:30:22. > :30:25.Secretary's protection officer who happened to be waiting while Michael
:30:26. > :30:30.Fallon went to vote. He was just there. It would suggest, you dread
:30:31. > :30:33.to think what would have happened if we hadn't been there. It does
:30:34. > :30:40.suggest security at a Palace of Westminster isn't as good as we
:30:41. > :30:44.thought it was. It's a tricky one. Not only should we salute the
:30:45. > :30:48.security services for how many attacks they prevent on a monthly
:30:49. > :30:52.basis, we understand, but also what's tricky is getting the balance
:30:53. > :30:56.between enough police that people feel safe and that they can do an
:30:57. > :31:00.acute job like this, to keep us safe, but not so much that people
:31:01. > :31:06.feel that there is a constant threat to our way of life. We are not even
:31:07. > :31:11.at the highest terror threat level. We are not at imminent yet. Because
:31:12. > :31:17.we do not know of any specific threat. Let's be honest, if this
:31:18. > :31:20.attacker had been professionally trained and armed with automatic
:31:21. > :31:27.weapons, this could have been a massacre. It could have been. The
:31:28. > :31:33.story about Michael Fallon, that is the first I have heard about that.
:31:34. > :31:38.But if he wasn't there, there are always three, four, sometimes six
:31:39. > :31:45.armed police around that members entrance of New Palace Yard. So, you
:31:46. > :31:49.know, there would have been guns there. If he had come in firing
:31:50. > :31:56.guns, there would have been people there to deal with it. He was three
:31:57. > :32:02.open doors away from the Prime Minister. That the layout. He was
:32:03. > :32:07.only 20 yards inside the gate. He did not get further than that place
:32:08. > :32:12.where you go down to the underground car park. He just got as far as
:32:13. > :32:18.there, about 20 yards in. It just happens to be, if he had got a bit
:32:19. > :32:22.further he could have got up to the Prime Minister's office. The war on
:32:23. > :32:27.terror has become intelligence led. There will now be more demands for
:32:28. > :32:32.more resources for the intelligence services, and I suspect they will be
:32:33. > :32:36.irresistible demands. Yet, as we were saying yesterday, for the likes
:32:37. > :32:40.of yesterday's attacker, that is the most difficult job for intelligence
:32:41. > :32:43.services. It is almost like no matter what resource they have they
:32:44. > :32:51.may not be able to pick up people like him. Let me just pay the
:32:52. > :32:58.tribute again. Working amongst the communities where they have to work,
:32:59. > :33:02.working with different languages, working with some communities that
:33:03. > :33:09.are quite closed but which have to be opened up, transferring the
:33:10. > :33:14.effort from Irish terrorism to Islamist terrorism, all of this has
:33:15. > :33:18.been a prodigious achievement by the security forces. Prodigious
:33:19. > :33:21.achievement. And yes, I think probably more resources will be
:33:22. > :33:27.needed, and it looks as though those resources could be put to good use.
:33:28. > :33:33.What did you make of the glowing tributes to Martin McGuinness this
:33:34. > :33:42.week? I think we are all conflicted about this. My hero is a Derrey
:33:43. > :33:48.politician, John Hume, who suffered just the same discrimination but
:33:49. > :33:53.decided to take a different route. I don't see how you can justify, under
:33:54. > :34:00.any circumstances, killing innocent civilians as part of your political
:34:01. > :34:03.objectives. Having said that, it is absolutely clear that without Martin
:34:04. > :34:09.McGuinness, that peace process would never have worked. And his position
:34:10. > :34:15.on the Bogside in Derry, where he continued to live... You remember
:34:16. > :34:24.shortly after the real IRA, the terrible outrage in Omagh, he was in
:34:25. > :34:30.danger, he risked his life in the end on the peace process. So the two
:34:31. > :34:34.parts of the Martin McGuinness are difficult to reconcile but in the
:34:35. > :34:38.end, from everyone who was involved in that peace process, it couldn't
:34:39. > :34:45.have happened without him. Could I just say, John Major started the
:34:46. > :34:48.peace process but it would have been very difficult for a Conservative
:34:49. > :34:54.Prime Minister or Cabinet to take the peace process very far, because
:34:55. > :35:02.so many of the victims had been our friends. It required a change of
:35:03. > :35:06.government. As it happened, Labour had not been in power for many
:35:07. > :35:12.years, and so Labour people had not been the victims. It was therefore
:35:13. > :35:17.more possible for Labour to continue the process. While we are talking
:35:18. > :35:21.about courage, it actually did take courage for Tony Blair and then, my
:35:22. > :35:26.goodness, for the Queen to shake hands with Martin McGuinness and
:35:27. > :35:33.with former terrorists. And I have no complaint about that whatsoever.
:35:34. > :35:37.Despite marvellous people who were killed by the IRA, marvellous
:35:38. > :35:42.people, which makes it impossible for me ever to forget it, I do
:35:43. > :35:44.understand how necessary the peace process was. Jonathan, thank you for
:35:45. > :35:48.being with us. Now, we're a resilient
:35:49. > :35:50.bunch here on This Week. Suffering regular eye-damage
:35:51. > :35:53.at the hands of Michael's wardrobe and spontaneous,
:35:54. > :35:54.severe narcolepsy at No wonder Molly The Dog,
:35:55. > :35:58.who is French and so not quite as resilient as the rest of us,
:35:59. > :36:01.is on permanent sabbatical Despite the bungling bozos that pass
:36:02. > :36:05.for the production team on this show, there is one consolation:
:36:06. > :36:09.we get to work in a city that In case anyone needed reminding
:36:10. > :36:16.of London's character, we're putting resilience
:36:17. > :36:34.in our Spotlight. London stood together tonight
:36:35. > :36:37.in defiance of the terror that Londoners will never
:36:38. > :36:45.be cowed by terrorism. This morning, millions
:36:46. > :36:47.returned to work and went Why should we stop living our lives
:36:48. > :36:53.the way we do for these nutters? At a moment like this I think it's
:36:54. > :37:04.important that we come together to remember who we are,
:37:05. > :37:06.that we don't let events like this change us and that
:37:07. > :37:08.together we defeat them. In the Commons, it was
:37:09. > :37:16.business as usual. Questions to the Secretary of State
:37:17. > :37:18.for International Trade. Ensure that if we do have a trade
:37:19. > :37:21.agreement with New Zealand, we won't be flooded
:37:22. > :37:25.with New Zealand lamb. It wasn't just Londoners
:37:26. > :37:27.who kept their upper lip stiff. I'm admiring really the resilience
:37:28. > :37:34.of the citizens of London Australia's heartfelt
:37:35. > :37:43.sympathy and resolute solidarity is with the people
:37:44. > :37:47.of the United Kingdom, with whom we stand today,
:37:48. > :37:50.as we always have, Londoner Simon Callow lived
:37:51. > :38:20.through the troubles in Belfast. We think of ourselves as a resilient
:38:21. > :38:25.city, a resilient nation. Are we? I think we are. Curiously, adverse tea
:38:26. > :38:30.of this kind seems to bring out that aspect of our character. Without
:38:31. > :38:34.adversity we can sometimes become indulgent, complacent, whatever. But
:38:35. > :38:40.we seem to thrive on it in some way, as if we were waiting for just such
:38:41. > :38:45.a moment. You think it brings out the best in us? It might do. My
:38:46. > :38:50.parents' generation grew up in London in the Blitz and we know how
:38:51. > :38:55.extraordinary, how liberating it was for them in a sense. They knew what
:38:56. > :39:02.needed to be fought against, and they fought against it. What
:39:03. > :39:08.happened in the Blitz puts yesterday into context. Terrible as it was, it
:39:09. > :39:15.was not the Blitz. Are we more resilient than other nations? Is it
:39:16. > :39:19.an island race, is it an island nation phenomenon, resilience? It is
:39:20. > :39:25.hard to say, because the French have recently enjoyed outrages and they
:39:26. > :39:32.have been remarkable. I was in Paris just immediately before Bataclan and
:39:33. > :39:36.immediately afterwards. I suppose human beings are resilient. But I
:39:37. > :39:44.think it is part of our national self image and we live up to it. Are
:39:45. > :39:50.we resilient people, Michael? Yes, I think we are but we must not take on
:39:51. > :39:53.an air of any superiority. New York City sustained 3000 deaths in a day
:39:54. > :39:59.and the resilience of New York has been superb. So let's not try and
:40:00. > :40:04.get one up on each other. Let's say that New York has inspired Paris,
:40:05. > :40:10.that Paris has inspired us, that we inspired Brussels. That is the way
:40:11. > :40:12.it has to be. I found in France that French resilience was beginning to
:40:13. > :40:19.wane simply because of the scale and number of attacks. Charlie Hebdo,
:40:20. > :40:23.Bataclan, Nice above all really tested French resilience to the
:40:24. > :40:30.absolute limit, it was so horrendous what happened that night. There have
:40:31. > :40:36.been a string of these. There was Berlin just before. Berlin was
:40:37. > :40:42.extraordinary. Again, I was there immediately after that outrage. And
:40:43. > :40:47.again, people had immediately recovered and insisted on business
:40:48. > :40:51.as usual. It's a human instinct. The one thing that is what is true is
:40:52. > :40:54.that the older generation is always more resilient than the younger
:40:55. > :41:04.generation. At least, that is what they always think. That generation
:41:05. > :41:15.that went through the war, two wars. And a depression. There was no
:41:16. > :41:20.counselling service for people. When you listen to their experiences,
:41:21. > :41:25.they just had to get on with it. In a sense, there is more concerned now
:41:26. > :41:29.and more sympathy. In those days, there was very little of it, you
:41:30. > :41:35.just got on with it in the most appalling circumstances. Resilience
:41:36. > :41:38.helps if you have the right leadership as well. Churchill
:41:39. > :41:43.provided the country with the right leadership at a time when we had to
:41:44. > :41:47.be most resilient. Yes, but I have no reason to criticise any of the
:41:48. > :41:51.leadership in the last 24 hours, whether from government or
:41:52. > :41:57.opposition. Theresa May was pitch perfect this morning in Parliament.
:41:58. > :42:01.Pitch perfect. But often leaders who are unimpressive in the ordinary
:42:02. > :42:06.conduct of affairs suddenly become remarkable in these situations. That
:42:07. > :42:11.was true of President Hollande, whose ratings were very low. For
:42:12. > :42:19.Charlie Hebdo, he rose to the occasion. But sank again afterwards!
:42:20. > :42:26.Ken Livingstone, for example, spoke remarkably eloquently and generously
:42:27. > :42:31.towards the people who had suffered, and in favour of a diversity and
:42:32. > :42:36.freedom in England, which the rest of his activities as a politician
:42:37. > :42:40.haven't always endorsed. The one thing terrorists do when they do
:42:41. > :42:46.this is that they remind us of the diversity, because they kill and
:42:47. > :42:51.maim not just a small number of Brits, but people from all over the
:42:52. > :42:57.world who have suffered. They suffered in 7/7 and they suffered
:42:58. > :43:03.yesterday. 11 nationalities. What are you up to these days? Directing
:43:04. > :43:08.a play by Christopher Hampton called the philanthropist, a wonderful
:43:09. > :43:10.play, which has as its backdrop acts of political violence not at all
:43:11. > :43:15.unlike the ones that have just occurred. What is interesting is
:43:16. > :43:20.that the characters in the play each used completely ignore them, as
:43:21. > :43:27.people very often do. Life, as we keep saying, goes on. Sometimes it
:43:28. > :43:28.is the best way. I have a feeling we will need all the resilience we can
:43:29. > :43:31.muster in months to come. That's your lot for tonight
:43:32. > :43:33.folks but not for us. We're off to LouLou's
:43:34. > :43:35.to party the night away. I know that might not seem
:43:36. > :43:38.appropriate after yesterday's events but the Prime Minister has told us
:43:39. > :43:41.it must be business as usual, and for us normal service
:43:42. > :43:44.is our Thursday night knees up So we think of it as duty
:43:45. > :43:51.rather than enjoyment. Don't let London's
:43:52. > :43:58.stiff upper lip bite. London pride, written by Noel Coward
:43:59. > :44:08.during the Blitz. London Pride has been
:44:09. > :44:10.handed down to us. London Pride is
:44:11. > :44:12.a flower that's free. London Pride means our
:44:13. > :44:14.own dear town to us. Woa, Liza, see the coster
:44:15. > :44:17.barrows, vegetable marrows Covent Garden Market,
:44:18. > :44:25.where the costers cry. Cockney feet mark
:44:26. > :44:28.the beat of history. Nothing ever can quite replace
:44:29. > :44:36.the grace of London Town. There's a little city flower
:44:37. > :44:39.every spring unfailing, growing in the crevices
:44:40. > :44:43.by some London railing. Though it has a Latin name,
:44:44. > :44:46.in town and countryside, London Pride has been
:44:47. > :44:52.handed down to us. London Pride is
:44:53. > :44:55.a flower that's free. London Pride means our
:44:56. > :44:58.own dear town to us.