:00:00. > :00:00.Are you excited about the general election?
:00:00. > :00:21.Tonight, on This Week's countdown, the clock is ticking down
:00:22. > :00:25.to yet another big vote, a general election.
:00:26. > :00:27.But can the pro-Europeans do what some say is impossible
:00:28. > :00:34.and, even now, rewrite the plan for Brexit?
:00:35. > :00:37.The general election is not going to reverse us leaving the EU,
:00:38. > :00:39.but we must support those MPs who are going to stand up
:00:40. > :00:47.The biggest brain in the universe attempts to solve the election
:00:48. > :00:52.countdown conundrum with his sonic screwdriver.
:00:53. > :00:56.There's a serious fault with the space-time continuum.
:00:57. > :01:01.Could this be the end of politics as we know it?
:01:02. > :01:09.I'm sorry, there'll be no points for spelling Big Narstie like that.
:01:10. > :01:11.I think all politicians are the same.
:01:12. > :01:14.Do you think the general election's going to change anything?
:01:15. > :01:22.It's going to be the greatest contest yet.
:01:23. > :01:30.So let's join tonight's host - oh, that's me, Andrew Neil!
:01:31. > :01:35.Hold it up to the light - not a brain in sight,
:01:36. > :01:40.We leave you to your own admittedly limited devices for two weeks
:01:41. > :01:44.The Prime Minister had categorically assured us -
:01:45. > :01:47.six times - there would be no election before 2020.
:01:48. > :01:51.So naturally she called one the moment our backs were turned.
:01:52. > :01:53.Who woulda thunk it - a politician saying one
:01:54. > :01:57.By the time we got back, old Jezza had morphed into Blighty's
:01:58. > :02:01.answer to Cesar Chavez - without the oil or the sun -
:02:02. > :02:04.the Lib Dems were predicting the biggest comeback
:02:05. > :02:08.since Fleetwood Mac reformed in 1997, and Arron Banks said he'd
:02:09. > :02:10.be Ukip's candidate in Clacton, just as soon as he can
:02:11. > :02:15.Meanwhile, Uncle Nige decided against an eighth failed
:02:16. > :02:18.bid to become an MP - Fox News is so much more
:02:19. > :02:21.fun and lucrative - and Boy George finally worked out
:02:22. > :02:23.that editing a newspaper is actually a full-time job.
:02:24. > :02:28.Pity that didn't dawn on him when he was running the economy.
:02:29. > :02:30.Here at This Week, we've reached peak apathy,
:02:31. > :02:35.so much so that most of the team hasn't even bothered to turn up.
:02:36. > :02:37.That's right - no sad man on a train, no
:02:38. > :02:42.Instead I'm joined by the replacement bus services
:02:43. > :02:44.of late-night political chat, our very own coalition of chaos,
:02:45. > :02:55.Chuka #smoothoperator Umunna and Ann #ChaChaCha Widdecombe.
:02:56. > :03:01.Welcome to you both. What did you think when you heard the election? I
:03:02. > :03:07.wouldn't have done it at this time. I thought we should have another
:03:08. > :03:10.year getting Brexit to be fully accepted, people just realising that
:03:11. > :03:14.that was the way we were going to go. I feel was always if we had it
:03:15. > :03:16.too soon it would turn into a second referendum, but nevertheless, she
:03:17. > :03:21.has called it. I don't think there's any doubt about what the outcome is
:03:22. > :03:27.going to be. She's going to win it. So I'm getting ready to get behind
:03:28. > :03:31.them. What did you think, what was your reaction? Two things. I think
:03:32. > :03:34.most people in Westminster, most parliamentarians on both sides of a
:03:35. > :03:37.House Fortis nose cone to be a general election there would have
:03:38. > :03:41.been an announcement before the Easter recess and people thought the
:03:42. > :03:46.moment have passed, so there were quite stunned, on Tuesday. A second
:03:47. > :03:51.thought was, well, why is she doing it? This whole thing about there's
:03:52. > :03:56.disunity in the House of Commons on Brexit and we need unity, I mean,
:03:57. > :04:01.very rarely as their unity on major issues in the House of Commons. The
:04:02. > :04:05.purpose of the Commons is not really... That's right, a healthy
:04:06. > :04:09.democracy, you need that contest of ideas. But really I think what this
:04:10. > :04:13.is about, she imposing very much as a kind of Margaret Thatcher type
:04:14. > :04:16.figure and Prime Minister and I think she's terrified of becoming
:04:17. > :04:22.John Major, and I think she could see with a small majority that she
:04:23. > :04:26.would become John Major on steroids, in terms of being weak and ending up
:04:27. > :04:31.with a battle going on internally and her party and I think she's
:04:32. > :04:40.gambling on a more moderate set of... Not much of a gamble, is it?
:04:41. > :04:43.Well... Do you get my drift? She's gambling on more moderate, less
:04:44. > :04:46.Eurosceptic MPs coming in to give her more flexibility, perhaps. And
:04:47. > :04:52.getting her own mandate is something to do with it, these lines.
:04:53. > :04:54.So, the lady IS for turning after all.
:04:55. > :04:56.The PM says she needs a mandate to overcome resistance -
:04:57. > :04:59.from the Lords to the Lib Dems - to her Brexit strategy.
:05:00. > :05:02.Obviously, the Tories' stonking lead in the polls played no part
:05:03. > :05:06.Mrs May hopes for a huge endorsement of what she means by Brexit.
:05:07. > :05:09.Is this the last hurrah for the Remainers and do they have
:05:10. > :05:11.any hope of stopping Brexit in its tracks?
:05:12. > :05:27.Here's Gina Miller with her take of the week.
:05:28. > :05:31.Brexitland a few years down the track - worse off,
:05:32. > :05:34.deserted by foreign workers and without the great
:05:35. > :05:41.Theresa May says she's called this election to ensure there is unity
:05:42. > :05:45.in Westminster and no turning back on Brexit.
:05:46. > :05:48.But, as my court victory showed, the referendum didn't hand
:05:49. > :05:52.the Prime Minister a blank cheque, and nor should this election,
:05:53. > :06:09.especially as we don't know the terms of the deal yet.
:06:10. > :06:12.The Government must not be allowed to succeed in killing off
:06:13. > :06:17.In an ideal world, we'll have time to put together
:06:18. > :06:21.a progressive alliance, but there simply isn't that time.
:06:22. > :06:24.That's why I am part of a crowd-funded tactical voting
:06:25. > :06:30.campaign, hoping to endorse those who are opposed to a hard Brexit.
:06:31. > :06:34.We are hoping to back a wide slate of candidates who we can trust
:06:35. > :06:44.will back a meaningful vote at the end of the negotiations.
:06:45. > :06:47.So many MPs are against Brexit but can't speak up
:06:48. > :06:53.But now is not the time to keep quiet.
:06:54. > :06:58.In fact, if the ultimate deal leaves us worse off than we are today,
:06:59. > :07:07.MPs must feel empowered to reject it.
:07:08. > :07:12.This election is going to be more important than any in living memory.
:07:13. > :07:16.It's the one that's going to be talked about in the pubs.
:07:17. > :07:19.It will be about Brexit, so I urge you, look closely
:07:20. > :07:21.at what the candidates say on the issue,
:07:22. > :07:24.and vote for the one who stands on principle
:07:25. > :07:34.Thanks to Apocalypse Events - The Village.
:07:35. > :07:46.Welcome to the programme. You said at the end there, talking about
:07:47. > :07:51.voting for people who do the best for Britain, but that's just code
:07:52. > :07:57.for wanting to vote for people who. Brexit, isn't it? We're not talking
:07:58. > :08:01.about stopping Brexit. It's what you want to do. No, it's not. If you
:08:02. > :08:05.stand back from the emotion of it all, it's pure logic and common
:08:06. > :08:09.sense that there are all options on the table and there are broadly
:08:10. > :08:13.three options. One is for a fantastic deal, where everyone gets
:08:14. > :08:18.what they want. The second is WTO, which the government itself has
:08:19. > :08:21.accepted is far more, located than they first envisaged, and the third
:08:22. > :08:27.is looking at if we would be better off remaining. Now anybody who
:08:28. > :08:31.says... But you want to remain. I was never four remain or leave, it
:08:32. > :08:36.was about remaining if that was the best option. You calculated to
:08:37. > :08:42.thwart Brexit. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a democracy. You can
:08:43. > :08:47.support whatever you want. But why not just admit it, instead of having
:08:48. > :08:51.these other motives over it? I love that you know what's in my mind,
:08:52. > :08:57.because it's not. It's quite easy to the! You just talked about a
:08:58. > :09:00.country, we will be deserted by foreign workers. That was how you
:09:01. > :09:05.opened your piece. You think we are going to hell in a handbasket. No,
:09:06. > :09:10.I'm interested in the facts, not the emotions of any of this. Why will we
:09:11. > :09:13.be deserted by foreign workers? We can already see if you are not going
:09:14. > :09:19.to have access to free movement there will be a problem. Why will we
:09:20. > :09:24.be deserted by foreign workers by leaving the EU? Because we won't
:09:25. > :09:28.have free movement. Deserted means all the people who are already here
:09:29. > :09:33.will leave, why? The experience I've had since I started my court case,
:09:34. > :09:39.there's an air around people the UK where they feel... They haven't left
:09:40. > :09:42.yet. The point is, that that phrase, deserted by foreign workers, Britain
:09:43. > :09:45.much poorer, it shows what you really think. It's a perfectly
:09:46. > :09:51.legitimate point of view. But you don't seem to want to be honest
:09:52. > :09:56.enough to admit that is what you -- your game plan is. I'm honest enough
:09:57. > :10:00.to say nobody has a future. You said we'll be deserted by foreign
:10:01. > :10:05.workers. That's a possibility and already we see people feeling they
:10:06. > :10:09.are not welcome here and that somehow... Who's not welcome here? I
:10:10. > :10:13.get thousands and thousands of messages and phone calls from people
:10:14. > :10:17.saying they feel no longer welcome. That's because you've taken a high
:10:18. > :10:22.profile position. I get that all the time, on things as well. Yellow
:10:23. > :10:26.Babineaux, I'm not talking about the attacks. Verbal attacks. I'm talking
:10:27. > :10:30.about people's experiences of how they feel. They feel they are no
:10:31. > :10:35.longer welcomed here, they feel this is not the country they thought this
:10:36. > :10:40.was. All right, what do you make of Gina's tactical voting plan? First
:10:41. > :10:45.of all, to talk about a Brexit that's not really a Brexit is a
:10:46. > :10:53.complete nonsense. We cannot continue to be governed by EU laws,
:10:54. > :10:55.remain subject to free movement of labour and have that qualifies for
:10:56. > :11:02.the title of Brexit. It's one all other. I share Andrew's view, for
:11:03. > :11:06.goodness' sake, say what you mean, which is that you want to remain.
:11:07. > :11:09.Let's have that debate. My worry always was this was going to turn
:11:10. > :11:13.into a second referendum. There are other issues which we ought to be
:11:14. > :11:20.discussing, but that wasn't the question you ask me. It was about
:11:21. > :11:23.tactical voting. Yes, will it work? It generally doesn't. You always get
:11:24. > :11:28.some uptake but it generally doesn't and time I hear there's going to be
:11:29. > :11:31.tactical voting, there's going to be alliances, people joining in favour
:11:32. > :11:36.other people, it doesn't actually happen because the campus is so
:11:37. > :11:39.broad in the end people are not just deciding on Brexit, however
:11:40. > :11:42.important it is. Would you really vote for Corbyn just because there's
:11:43. > :11:48.a pro-remain candidate there? You won't. Mr Corbyn is not
:11:49. > :11:51.overwhelmingly pro-remain, as we can see. That wasn't my point. Should
:11:52. > :12:00.there not be a referendum on the final deal? I have to say I'm not
:12:01. > :12:06.the biggest fan of referenda, partly because I think people elect members
:12:07. > :12:10.of Parliament to give effect to their wishes, and I think we saw
:12:11. > :12:13.with the referendum and the triggering of Article 50, the
:12:14. > :12:17.difficulties for members of parliament when they are juxtaposed
:12:18. > :12:20.against a direct democratic popular vote, so personally I would rather
:12:21. > :12:25.it was members of Parliament voting on it. So it goes to the Commons,
:12:26. > :12:31.rather than to a referendum? Yes, because we are elected to do a job.
:12:32. > :12:36.I think what Gina is doing is very interesting and actually very
:12:37. > :12:40.helpful in the context of this selection, for people who, you know,
:12:41. > :12:42.are part of that 48% who want to know where different MPs stand on
:12:43. > :12:46.things and I think what your project is going to help voters do is be
:12:47. > :12:55.able to identify whether you've got somebody who is in favour of a soft
:12:56. > :12:58.Brexit, or... What's a soft Brexit? There are two ways, this is my
:12:59. > :13:05.subjective analysis of it, I note Ann has a different... I'm asking
:13:06. > :13:13.your opinion. You can withdraw from the EU in an extreme way... Lots of
:13:14. > :13:18.soft Brexit? My definition would be we remain a member of the single
:13:19. > :13:25.market. We would be subject to the European Union... That's right. Hang
:13:26. > :13:29.on, let me finish, a lot is made at that point but if we want to
:13:30. > :13:34.continue trading with the European Union the agreement will be be
:13:35. > :13:41.governed by some other authority and, but also, Andrew, if we want to
:13:42. > :13:44.continue trading into the European Union leavers and Remainers are both
:13:45. > :13:49.saying, we're going to have to comply with the standards and rules.
:13:50. > :13:53.We have to do that to export to America. Last time I looked, there
:13:54. > :13:56.is no freedom of movement between Britain and America. Let me come
:13:57. > :13:59.back to Gina Miller. Would you like a referendum when, if and when,
:14:00. > :14:09.there's a deal done? I think it should be up to the MPs,
:14:10. > :14:14.because we have a Parliamentary democracy, not a direct democracy.
:14:15. > :14:19.If we elect MPs, they should be able to vote, to have a meaningful vote
:14:20. > :14:26.on whatever the deal is. They are. We don't know that. Output a
:14:27. > :14:32.government stop them? If you look at the government's copybook on using
:14:33. > :14:37.Article 50, in my case, they tried to bypass Parliament, so how do we
:14:38. > :14:40.know they won't do that again? The government has said it is
:14:41. > :14:45.inconceivable for the European Parliament to have a vote but not
:14:46. > :14:50.the British Parliament. Mrs May has promised there will be a vote on a
:14:51. > :14:52.hard deal or no deal. That isn't meaningful. A meaningful vote is a
:14:53. > :14:59.vote on all the options available to MPs. A meaningful vote is, this is
:15:00. > :15:03.the deal that has been negotiated, and there will be only one deal
:15:04. > :15:07.negotiated at the end, and do we accept that or not? That is the only
:15:08. > :15:14.question that can be asked, because there is no other deal. There are
:15:15. > :15:19.three options, not two. Another way is to give Parliament a vote
:15:20. > :15:24.earlier, so it can say to the Prime Minister, go back... It can tie the
:15:25. > :15:30.Prime Minister's and in negotiations. That is all right,
:15:31. > :15:34.isn't it? I disagree with this notion. Can I come on a different
:15:35. > :15:39.tack? The interesting thing is the extent to which the general election
:15:40. > :15:43.will be governed by this issue, or weather, by the end of this
:15:44. > :15:49.seven-week period... But that is economic competence... The reason we
:15:50. > :15:57.have Gina Miller tonight, it has been a legitimate criticism from the
:15:58. > :16:01.Remain side that country voted to leave but the actual shape of
:16:02. > :16:04.leaving wasn't clear for the people had different views about it. Mrs
:16:05. > :16:12.Majors herself was a remainder. If she now campaigns for Brexit in this
:16:13. > :16:17.election campaign, which she says is her position, leaving membership of
:16:18. > :16:21.the single market, we want to leave the customs union and get out of the
:16:22. > :16:26.European court, we want an end of freedom of movement, and if she wins
:16:27. > :16:30.the election on a big mandate, she has got a negotiating mandate to
:16:31. > :16:37.that, hasn't she? Absolutely. Of course there wouldn't be a problem.
:16:38. > :16:41.So what is the point of this progressive alliance? Because we are
:16:42. > :16:44.talking about ensuring there isn't this huge mandate. The options, as
:16:45. > :16:49.far as we see it, is that you have... You look back to what was
:16:50. > :16:57.said in 1983, an elected majority is almost an elected dictatorship and
:16:58. > :17:04.that is a game we are saying... But it has been speculated that it would
:17:05. > :17:11.be too big. But you would accept, because she will have to spell out
:17:12. > :17:16.what her negotiating position is,... All of the manifestos will. If she
:17:17. > :17:21.gets a mandate, that visit, she has got the mandate to negotiate on that
:17:22. > :17:25.basis. She does, but no Prime Minister is above the law and if, in
:17:26. > :17:29.18 months, five years, whenever it is that the Prime Minister comes
:17:30. > :17:33.back with the negotiated and doesn't give Parliament a full, meaningful
:17:34. > :17:40.vote, then we may have to seek the advice of the courts on whether she
:17:41. > :17:45.is allowed to do that. Back to the courts. Nobody is above the law. I
:17:46. > :17:52.understand that but, if you don't think ring or interfering with the
:17:53. > :17:59.democratic process into a democratic copy? When is it my hobby and when
:18:00. > :18:02.am I a rich woman? I have a democratic -- I have significant day
:18:03. > :18:06.jobs. This isn't a hobby. I have done this for nearly a decade and is
:18:07. > :18:11.it OK that, if I am rich because I have owned my own money, that I
:18:12. > :18:18.might use its...? I am wondering if it is your hobby. Absolutely not.
:18:19. > :18:21.When you did the court case at the beginning, you said you just wanted
:18:22. > :18:28.the court case to rule on whether the Commons at a vote. It was about
:18:29. > :18:33.democracy. But now you are talking about 80 metric -- Democratic
:18:34. > :18:38.Alliance. It is still about democracy. It has given you a new
:18:39. > :18:42.purpose in life. It's the same purpose, that everybody has the duty
:18:43. > :18:44.to stand up they believe in. Gina Miller, thank you. I think we will
:18:45. > :18:45.see you again. Now, it's late - stand down
:18:46. > :18:48.as a Labour MP late - but fear not, because waiting
:18:49. > :18:51.in the wings is grime I listen to his choonz
:18:52. > :18:54.every day and ting. He's here putting apathy
:18:55. > :18:56.in our Spotlight, innit. So get on dem social
:18:57. > :19:01.media vibes, fam. Get tweet twerking, because we've
:19:02. > :19:06.had enough snap for one week. Now, it's generally accepted that
:19:07. > :19:10.comrade Corbyn is facing the electoral uphill struggle
:19:11. > :19:12.of a lifetime. One recent poll puts Labour 24
:19:13. > :19:15.points behind the Tories. But Jezza is no
:19:16. > :19:16.stranger to long odds. After all, nobody ever thought
:19:17. > :19:20.he'd be Labour leader. They are the peak of
:19:21. > :19:23.political science - Here's Gyles Brandreth with his
:19:24. > :19:32.round-up of the political week. Westminster has been
:19:33. > :19:51.rocked to the core. News of a shock contest,
:19:52. > :19:56.a battle so exciting, it has torn Who will be chosen
:19:57. > :20:08.as the new Doctor Who? I have just chaired a meeting
:20:09. > :20:22.of the Cabinet where we agreed that the government should call
:20:23. > :20:24.a general election to be It will be a choice between strong
:20:25. > :20:32.and stable leadership in the national interest,
:20:33. > :20:36.with me as your Prime Minister, or weak and unstable
:20:37. > :20:38.coalition government, led by Jeremy Corbyn,
:20:39. > :20:42.propped up by the Liberal Democrats, who want to reopen the divisions
:20:43. > :20:46.of the referendum, I can jump forward to
:20:47. > :21:02.when the whole thing is over. I knew I shouldn't have let Michael
:21:03. > :21:06.loose with the sonic screwdriver. No one saw the PM's move coming,
:21:07. > :21:09.least of all the Labour Party. I welcome the opportunity for us
:21:10. > :21:17.to put the case to the people of Britain, to stand up against this
:21:18. > :21:20.government and its failed economic agenda, which has left our NHS
:21:21. > :21:24.and problems, which has left our schools are underfunded,
:21:25. > :21:31.which has left some We want to put a case out
:21:32. > :21:35.there for the people of Britain of a society
:21:36. > :21:37.that cares for all. With Labour trailing 20%
:21:38. > :21:39.in the polls, Jeremy Corbyn has Not least with convincing
:21:40. > :22:07.some of his own party. The rest of the opposition sounded
:22:08. > :22:14.more up for the fight. It's an opportunity for the people
:22:15. > :22:17.of this country to change the direction of this country,
:22:18. > :22:20.to decide that they do not they want to keep Britain
:22:21. > :22:27.in the single market and indeed it's an opportunity for us
:22:28. > :22:29.to have a decent strong opposition in this country
:22:30. > :22:31.that we desperately need. Things happen very
:22:32. > :22:33.quickly and there could We are already polling
:22:34. > :22:37.more highly than we were at the time
:22:38. > :22:40.of the 2015 general election. Clearly she sees the opportunity,
:22:41. > :22:42.given the disarray in the Labour Party,
:22:43. > :22:45.to crush all opposition to her, to get rid of people who disagree
:22:46. > :22:49.with her, and to give herself a free hand to take
:22:50. > :22:52.the country in the increasingly right-wing direction
:22:53. > :22:56.she wants to take it in. I relish the prospect of getting out
:22:57. > :22:58.there, standing up for Scotland's interests and values,
:22:59. > :23:02.standing up for Scotland's voice Cool, calculating, stripped
:23:03. > :23:13.of all emotion, hell-bent Britain is leaving
:23:14. > :23:18.the European Union, I have set out the divisions
:23:19. > :23:29.that have become They can and will be used
:23:30. > :23:36.against us, weakening our hand in the negotiations to come
:23:37. > :23:39.and we must not let that happen. And that's why it's the right
:23:40. > :23:41.and responsible thing for all of us here today to vote
:23:42. > :23:46.for a general election. The Commons passed the PM's
:23:47. > :23:48.Bill resoundingly. With opposition like that, Mrs May
:23:49. > :23:56.really does need a mandate to Fighting an election was one job too
:23:57. > :24:10.many for George Osborne. But don't worry, Osborne fans,
:24:11. > :24:18.the former Chancellor and Tory election strategist,
:24:19. > :24:23.will, he promises, be putting his oar in from the comfort
:24:24. > :24:25.of the London Evening Standard. Provided he remembers those copy
:24:26. > :24:27.deadlines, of course. Our country has some
:24:28. > :24:30.big decisions to make now about the kind of Britain
:24:31. > :24:35.we want to be, and those values of openness, tolerance,
:24:36. > :24:36.diversity, enterprise, They are ones I fought
:24:37. > :24:41.for in government as Chancellor, fought for in Parliament as the MP
:24:42. > :24:44.for Tatton and now I'm going to fight for them in that editor's
:24:45. > :24:47.chair at the Evening Standard. The PM, the apparently
:24:48. > :24:50.quiet vicar's daughter, has shown her hand and it turns out
:24:51. > :24:53.to be an iron fist in a No opportunity will be given
:24:54. > :24:57.to doubters, no quarter given to the opposition, and definitely
:24:58. > :25:02.no silly TV debates. If the Prime Minister
:25:03. > :25:04.is so confident that her hard Brexit, pro-austerity,
:25:05. > :25:09.anti-immigration case is right, then she should debate it
:25:10. > :25:11.with opposition leaders We look forward to the straight
:25:12. > :25:16.fight between the SNP and Can the Prime Minister tell
:25:17. > :25:20.the people why she's running scared of a televised debate
:25:21. > :25:27.with Nicola Sturgeon? DALEK: Election debate,
:25:28. > :25:35.election debate. Thank very much to The Who Shop
:25:36. > :25:46.in Upton Park, East London, who loaned Gyles their Tardis -
:25:47. > :26:01.and then set their Dalek on him. With me now is the lovely Miranda
:26:02. > :26:09.Green. And Suzanne Evans. Am I not lovely as well? It was meant to
:26:10. > :26:16.cover you both. Chuka Umunna, why is your party 20 points behind in the
:26:17. > :26:21.polls? Well, polls go up and down. Yours just go down. The ultimate one
:26:22. > :26:27.that will matter is how voters cast their votes on the 8th of June. Why
:26:28. > :26:33.are you 20 points behind? We have had a difficult two years, but what
:26:34. > :26:38.you will see the Labour Party doing now, over the next few weeks, is
:26:39. > :26:42.coming together and putting forward as a team and offered to the
:26:43. > :26:46.country. Some of your MPs have said they are standing down. That isn't
:26:47. > :26:55.coming together. That isn't unusual at elections. Ann stood down at
:26:56. > :27:01.election. After 23 years! Some of them have been there that long.
:27:02. > :27:05.However long people have been in, we are sad to lose them. But that's
:27:06. > :27:12.politics. You don't do this job for ever. ... Would Jeremy Corbyn make a
:27:13. > :27:14.good Prime Minister? There is a lot of talk about how difficult this
:27:15. > :27:21.question is for MPs. My answer is simple. I am a Labour MP. It isn't
:27:22. > :27:25.just about... I know you are, I didn't ask you that. Let me finish
:27:26. > :27:32.my sentence. Answer the question! Would he make a good Prime Minister?
:27:33. > :27:35.Reed I want a Labour team and its captain to get into government and I
:27:36. > :27:39.will always think that the team and the captain will be better than a
:27:40. > :27:45.Tory one. That is why I was elected in Streatham. Teams spin doctors
:27:46. > :27:49.were working on that answer. Did this go wrong -- could this go wrong
:27:50. > :27:54.for Theresa May? There are always risks in a general election but the
:27:55. > :27:59.outcome of this one is as certain as any outcome can ever be in a
:28:00. > :28:02.political context. She starts miles ahead in the polls. I'm sorry,
:28:03. > :28:09.Chuka, but Jeremy Corbyn cannot be seen as a realistic PM. I didn't ask
:28:10. > :28:13.you that, because I knew what the answer would be. She is starting
:28:14. > :28:16.with all the advantages. She would need to throw something away for
:28:17. > :28:20.anything to really wrong. Yet have the department of honesty. If the
:28:21. > :28:26.real reason she has called the election? I think she wants to
:28:27. > :28:28.secure a larger majority because I think there will be tough
:28:29. > :28:34.negotiation ahead. And I think she wants to secure a proper majority,
:28:35. > :28:40.and not to be weakened by always been on a knife edge in Parliament.
:28:41. > :28:44.Nothing wrong with that. That was true a month ago, six weeks ago.
:28:45. > :28:48.Yes, and her view was that she wasn't going to have an election.
:28:49. > :28:52.She has obviously reflected on it but I don't go for all this, and it
:28:53. > :28:57.doesn't matter which party the politician is, this business of, oh,
:28:58. > :29:04.it's a U-turn. No, it's a mature reflection which has resulted in a
:29:05. > :29:10.different decision. No, it looks and walks like a U-turn! It's a U-turn!
:29:11. > :29:13.It's the mother of all U-turns! But that is a pejorative way of saying
:29:14. > :29:21.that somebody has just changed their mind. The lady isn't for turning,
:29:22. > :29:25.she can't say that now. This is more John Major than Mrs Thatcher. What
:29:26. > :29:29.macro this is your line? No, I think it is why doing it. With a Lib Dem
:29:30. > :29:41.recovery, what would it look like? It can't get worse than eight seats.
:29:42. > :29:45.2016 was being smashed down onto the floor, so they'll do much better.
:29:46. > :29:48.There is a sort of mood of wanting to take an opportunity to recover to
:29:49. > :29:56.a respectable showing in the Commons and also to kind of capitalise on
:29:57. > :30:04.Labour's weakness, because there are some Labour voters who are willing
:30:05. > :30:11.to vote Lib Dems, but they do have to be able to take this opportunity
:30:12. > :30:16.and it's not dangerous free, but they will improve their showing. And
:30:17. > :30:19.also of course the May local elections might help the Lib Dems,
:30:20. > :30:25.because if they do quite well in the local elections it will give them
:30:26. > :30:29.momentum. Let me bring in Suzanne. This could be the beginning of the
:30:30. > :30:35.four Ukip, couldn't it? It could be the beginning of new beginning as
:30:36. > :30:41.well. We can't do much worse than having non-, which is the position
:30:42. > :30:46.at the moment. Douglas Carswell, probably the first and the last MP
:30:47. > :30:52.of your party? And he could probably not be, let's see what happens. You
:30:53. > :30:56.are not confident, are you? We're not as confident as we were I don't
:30:57. > :30:59.think before the 2015 general election, which was a massive
:31:00. > :31:04.disappointment to us. 4 million votes, one member of Parliament, a
:31:05. > :31:08.brilliant argument if ever there was one for voting reform. For
:31:09. > :31:12.concentrating your resources on this leads you can win. We are having
:31:13. > :31:17.those discussions at the moment, where are target seats are going to
:31:18. > :31:23.be. What's your disagreement with Theresa May? What's Ukip about this
:31:24. > :31:28.time? In terms of Theresa May, let's say she's talking very much in terms
:31:29. > :31:31.of her Brexit vision, but she's not being very clear as well on some
:31:32. > :31:36.other issues and I'm very interested to see what the Tory manifesto is
:31:37. > :31:43.going to be. Her failure... Now you see the problems I have. Indeed, I
:31:44. > :31:48.do. Question is what part of Theresa May's Brexit strategy do you
:31:49. > :31:53.disagree with? Non-, at the moment. So what's the point? The mission she
:31:54. > :31:58.set out is all very well. Ukip is much more than Brexit. It really is.
:31:59. > :32:03.That's obviously what we've been seen... Grammar schools. The
:32:04. > :32:09.government is doing that. Ukip is not... I'm quite enjoying this
:32:10. > :32:17.coming you tell me the question! It's great! I'm not convinced, Ann,
:32:18. > :32:21.that Theresa May is actually going to deliver the Brexit that the
:32:22. > :32:26.British people want. How does standing against her promoter
:32:27. > :32:32.Brexit? Are you suggesting we don't stand? We are political party. It's
:32:33. > :32:39.what we do. Let me come back to appoint you made at the head of the
:32:40. > :32:44.programme to put Ann, you and I both remember the Ted Heath election of
:32:45. > :32:48.1974. He called it on who runs the country. That was the issue. Within
:32:49. > :32:54.a week, that had ceased to be the issue. Many other things had become
:32:55. > :33:00.the issue. There's a chance in that way it kind of runs away. You call
:33:01. > :33:04.an election on one issue and people say, that's not what I want to talk
:33:05. > :33:07.about, we want to talk about living standards, we want to talk about the
:33:08. > :33:11.difficulties of good schools, waiting lists in the NHS, that's got
:33:12. > :33:16.to be a risk for her. I have no doubt at all that all those types of
:33:17. > :33:21.issues will, and will be debated. They are bound to, in the course of
:33:22. > :33:25.a general election. In as far as one can never make predictions and
:33:26. > :33:28.politics, it is very unlikely that Brexit will be overtaken, in the
:33:29. > :33:31.sense that people will suddenly forget about it and start
:33:32. > :33:34.concentrating on other things. I do remember the Tettey selection and he
:33:35. > :33:43.said, who rules? That was the question he put. He said, who rules?
:33:44. > :33:48.And people said, nobody. The result was indeterminate. Tim Farron
:33:49. > :33:53.reckons that the Remain and Leave thing is going to produce a lot for
:33:54. > :33:58.him, but I look in my own area, slightly different, I'm an anti-hard
:33:59. > :34:04.Brexit MP and memories are short and a lot of take the NHS Andrew touched
:34:05. > :34:07.on, a lot of what's happening to the NHS now was instigated by Liberal
:34:08. > :34:12.Democrats with Conservatives in government and what he's bargaining
:34:13. > :34:16.on is that areas that have been deeply affected by that, like my
:34:17. > :34:20.own, will forget the cuts and forget the responsibility that the Liberal
:34:21. > :34:23.Democrats pair for that now and say, OK, because he's Remain, therefore
:34:24. > :34:27.I'm going to forget all that and support him. I think by the end of
:34:28. > :34:31.this, I'm not sure that's going to happen. By the end of the thing, it
:34:32. > :34:36.comes down to leadership and economy. It's an interesting point,
:34:37. > :34:42.there are potential huge pitfalls for all of the main parties here.
:34:43. > :34:46.Labour's pitfalls are obvious, it's to do with the leadership deficit
:34:47. > :34:49.and the Corbyn factor. The Lib Dems do have this issue of how they deal
:34:50. > :34:53.with the coalition years and they will make a big mistake if they try
:34:54. > :34:57.and fight the last war. Already, some of the senior people who are
:34:58. > :35:00.standing again have made the mistake in the last 24 hours of trying to
:35:01. > :35:06.argue with the electorate about why they got such a kicking in 2015.
:35:07. > :35:10.They can't do that. They need to move on. There's plenty to talk
:35:11. > :35:13.about, about whether you want essentially an over dominant
:35:14. > :35:16.Conservative Party without in effective opposition, and there they
:35:17. > :35:20.can make a case that there's a contribution to make when the Labour
:35:21. > :35:25.Party is in disarray. That will be their argument. If May is going into
:35:26. > :35:28.this thinking it's a Brexit election, it might be what people
:35:29. > :35:32.are focused on now but we've also triggered optical 50. We are on the
:35:33. > :35:35.way out. I actually think there will be other issues that come to the
:35:36. > :35:42.fore and take over from that quickly. NHS is one of them, on
:35:43. > :35:44.which this Tory government has failed abysmally. The Health
:35:45. > :35:49.Secretary is one of the most unpopular there's ever been, not
:35:50. > :35:55.just... They're always unpopular. This was -- this one is particularly
:35:56. > :35:58.unpopular. I wonder if the Westminster village doesn't
:35:59. > :36:05.overestimate the whole Remain and Leave feeling in the country. It
:36:06. > :36:11.just is not, in people's everyday lives in my area, Remain and Leave
:36:12. > :36:13.and Brexit is important for a lot of people, a strong Remain
:36:14. > :36:18.constituency. The health and education cuts is more immediate.
:36:19. > :36:24.The point I made earlier which I think you make misunderstood, was
:36:25. > :36:29.straightforward. Just because the Labour candidate is for Remain, why
:36:30. > :36:33.would that make you vote for Cobilas Prime Minister? That was the point I
:36:34. > :36:37.was trying to make earlier, when we had Gina here. I don't think
:36:38. > :36:41.therefore that Brexit will be the sole determining factor. I think
:36:42. > :36:45.competence, I think record, I think all those things will count and will
:36:46. > :36:47.count heavily. And of course the Prime Minister wants to make it
:36:48. > :36:54.about leadership, as she said several times. I wonder why. Let me
:36:55. > :36:59.come back to you, Chuka. A lot of people on your side are realistic
:37:00. > :37:03.they think if there's chance of them into power it will have to beat with
:37:04. > :37:07.an alliance, there will not be an overall majority. It will have to be
:37:08. > :37:11.an alliance. Is there any hope of a Progressive Alliance? It never seems
:37:12. > :37:15.to take off in Britain? I think the problem is if you look on the left
:37:16. > :37:20.and there's been this talk of Liberal Democrats, Greensand Labour,
:37:21. > :37:29.the ASCII is always full Labour to stand down in favour of Green and
:37:30. > :37:36.Lib Dem candidates. But the Greens stood out of the way in Richmond to
:37:37. > :37:40.give the Lib Dems a clear run. The national and local did that, there
:37:41. > :37:45.was a dispute, wasn't there? I spoke to Caroline Lucas today. She said
:37:46. > :37:49.clearly, she wants to do that, but it has to be the decision of the
:37:50. > :37:52.local party. I think in the end, some people are very squiffy about
:37:53. > :37:56.this but in the end there's an issue in the sense that if there's to be
:37:57. > :38:01.any kind of alliance of coalition, that's for the voters to determine.
:38:02. > :38:06.It's not a backroom deal. This is all a disaster, Lynton Crosby's
:38:07. > :38:10.brilliant slogan, which they are to repeat ad nauseam, is this strong
:38:11. > :38:13.Tory leadership versus coalition of chaos. There is no prospect of a
:38:14. > :38:21.coalition with Corbyn, nobody would touch him with a barge pole. Nicola
:38:22. > :38:24.Sturgeon... That's right, it's difficult to talk about tactical
:38:25. > :38:27.voting without playing into the hands of Lynton Crosby, so it makes
:38:28. > :38:33.it very difficult even on the ground. I think there will be some
:38:34. > :38:35.of it on the ground this time. It's clear Mrs May will seek a new
:38:36. > :38:40.mandate, not just for Brexit. There's a lot of things she didn't
:38:41. > :38:45.like in the 2015 manifesto. There's going to be new things, old promises
:38:46. > :38:51.junked, new ones put in. What is the one thing above all you would like
:38:52. > :38:57.to see that's new in the Tory manifesto? I want to see a promise
:38:58. > :39:02.on immigration that is deliverable. And where the mechanisms will be
:39:03. > :39:08.spelt out. Why do you have faith in Mrs May to deliver that, given her
:39:09. > :39:13.appalling record of Home Secretary? She was also heavily restricted
:39:14. > :39:18.during that time by EU law. She didn't control non-EU immigration.
:39:19. > :39:25.Which is also subject to EU law and refugees. Wakey wakey!
:39:26. > :39:31.LAUGHTER 26 minutes past 12! Servers are
:39:32. > :39:36.trying to get a cat nap. We'll move on before we all fall asleep.
:39:37. > :39:39.Old Choo Choo was so overwhelmed by the prospect of another election
:39:40. > :39:41.that he bought a ticket on the Hindu Express
:39:42. > :39:47.Sad man on the left Alan Johnson is even more disenchanted
:39:48. > :39:54.He's said he's not playing any more and is off to write his memoirs.
:39:55. > :40:05.That's why we're putting apathy in this week's spotlight.
:40:06. > :40:07.The Prime Minister's called yet another national vote.
:40:08. > :40:14.Oh, for gods sake, I can't honestly...
:40:15. > :40:19.There's too much politics going on at the moment.
:40:20. > :40:30.So what style of campaigning, if any, can win the electorate over?
:40:31. > :40:33.I believe in campaigns where politicians actually get out
:40:34. > :40:44.# I bore myself in broad daylight, 'cause I'm bored #
:40:45. > :40:46.Or is the cure for apathy to topple the political
:40:47. > :40:51.It's the establishment versus the people.
:40:52. > :40:59.It's our historic duty to make sure the people prevail.
:41:00. > :41:02.Even some of them have had enough of the whole thing.
:41:03. > :41:16.Grime artist Big Narstie encouraged young people to take part in last
:41:17. > :41:19.year's EU referendum, but does he still think voting's
:41:20. > :41:23.worthwhile, or should we smash the system to bits?
:41:24. > :41:48.Welcome. Do you think people get bored with voting so often? 100%,
:41:49. > :41:53.man. If you look at the last two years, it still the same. People are
:41:54. > :41:59.still sleeping in city centres, in bags for life, so with all the
:42:00. > :42:02.schemes and policies that have happened, MPs saying they will do
:42:03. > :42:07.this or that, it still seems the poor get poorer, the rich stay the
:42:08. > :42:13.same and pay higher tax and instead of building council flats, there's
:42:14. > :42:16.always a new need for a Tesco or Morrisons or Tesco local. So you're
:42:17. > :42:24.saying it doesn't make any difference? Not at all. What do you
:42:25. > :42:30.say to that, Chuka I think it does make a difference and Big Narstie is
:42:31. > :42:34.from my neck of the woods, Lambeth. Of the things we thought, we don't
:42:35. > :42:39.explain enough the tangible things that happen at the end of your road
:42:40. > :42:44.that have been the result of a political decision, so I look at my
:42:45. > :42:46.area, nine sure start children's centres, our secondary school
:42:47. > :42:50.buildings are hell of a lot better than when you and I went to school,
:42:51. > :42:54.and our primary school buildings, much better than when we went to
:42:55. > :43:02.school, and that was as a result of political decisions. New health
:43:03. > :43:06.centres that were built. All right. People don't associate that with a
:43:07. > :43:07.political decision. You've got better schools, more sure start
:43:08. > :43:17.eschew That is supposed to be standard. I
:43:18. > :43:24.agree. We didn't have it before though. This is what is sick about
:43:25. > :43:31.the situation. So the politicians 20 years before you, when everybody had
:43:32. > :43:35.their power before and they give a speech about how they care for the
:43:36. > :43:40.community, it sounds nice... The thing with elections coming yet, the
:43:41. > :43:47.focus is on the election instead of the people, because the truth is
:43:48. > :43:52.that they are real things that we need, they don't look fancy, and to
:43:53. > :43:56.the establishment, it's really uncomfortable. For more politicians
:43:57. > :44:02.to say, do you know what? There is that 20 square thousand feet left in
:44:03. > :44:06.the city centre. We're not going to build a new JD sports. I think we
:44:07. > :44:11.should build someone bed flats, but that isn't cool to say because it
:44:12. > :44:16.will ruin your campaign. That is what gets said all the time. The
:44:17. > :44:19.long-term effect is, because you said just to get through and didn't
:44:20. > :44:25.do it, the next person said it and didn't do it, so now we are here,
:44:26. > :44:33.and the man is saying, politicians, you lot are dead food. What is dead
:44:34. > :44:36.food? Floppy disks, minidisks. In the sense of, when you leave this
:44:37. > :44:40.place right now and the lights go off and you go about your business,
:44:41. > :44:47.you've got a good job and you are OK. Let's talk about the people who
:44:48. > :44:53.have to bank ?88 every two weeks and being told, because of what they
:44:54. > :44:58.have in their house, they need to pay tax on that. Even prime
:44:59. > :45:02.ministers, if you want to run this country, we need to go back to
:45:03. > :45:06.basics. It doesn't matter you are poor or rich. You need to have the
:45:07. > :45:11.mind state to think for more than just one. But the problem is now,
:45:12. > :45:22.like most places in the world, the poor out to the rich. There are more
:45:23. > :45:28.poor people than rich people. One minute, this one is going to mash
:45:29. > :45:31.your mind. Imagine this. It's not your fault that you come from a
:45:32. > :45:35.loving home with two parents who have worked hard to give you a
:45:36. > :45:39.better future and provide some stability for you, but let's talk
:45:40. > :45:42.about the kids who haven't. How can a person who has had a perfect life,
:45:43. > :45:47.who has grew up in a perfect society, you've never had an
:45:48. > :45:51.electric meter in your life, you've never sat in a passageway looking at
:45:52. > :45:58.a baby thinking, how am I going to... Who are you talking to? I
:45:59. > :46:05.thought you were talking to Ann. But the group will I bring her in? But
:46:06. > :46:09.like everybody to have a word. And I'd like everybody to have a woeful
:46:10. > :46:13.Ken Livingstone, before he became an expert on Hitler, used to say, if
:46:14. > :46:21.voting mattered, they would abolish it. They had a what? If voting
:46:22. > :46:28.mattered, they would abolish it. I always said, if you had compulsory
:46:29. > :46:33.voting and you had a box saying, none of the above, that would
:46:34. > :46:40.probably win. So you agree? No. I am with Chuka. Just about everything
:46:41. > :46:43.that happens is governed by political decisions, from basic
:46:44. > :46:50.things like how often the rubbish is collected, all the way through to
:46:51. > :46:55.laws on Brexit. All of these things are actually the product of
:46:56. > :46:58.political decisions and politically understanding or misunderstanding,
:46:59. > :47:03.and Chuka is right, we don't often explain that. We don't often say,
:47:04. > :47:06.all of these things changed across somebody took that on board I'm
:47:07. > :47:13.going to give you the final word. All I'm going to say is this not my
:47:14. > :47:20.thing is this. The problem with our country, too many people who have
:47:21. > :47:24.not come from the poor way of life, let's just talk about real life...
:47:25. > :47:31.We don't have much time. Real life is this. Working over 16 hours, tax
:47:32. > :47:37.is being taken out and it's hard enough for a normal person to afford
:47:38. > :47:41.to live in London so you are working 16 hours and you can't afford, and
:47:42. > :47:45.you're still on benefits, but you have a posh person telling you about
:47:46. > :47:54.more benefit cuts and cutting money from disabled kids. We are running
:47:55. > :47:58.over. Real stuff. What good to see you got keep it real. That is your
:47:59. > :48:02.lot for tonight, but not for us. We're giving Loulou's the swerve
:48:03. > :48:04.tonight, because we're off to the Bristol mansion
:48:05. > :48:06.of Ukip's Arron Banks, where he's laid out his maps
:48:07. > :48:09.of the south-east of England, and together we will pour over them
:48:10. > :48:12.to help him identify exactly He probably needs to crack
:48:13. > :48:15.that conundrum before And we will help because, for us,
:48:16. > :48:21.public service is a 24/7 duty. Nighty night, don't
:48:22. > :48:35.let the voters bite. I know nothing about Clapton at all.
:48:36. > :48:43.I've got a reputation for saying it as it is. My plan is to get Clacton,
:48:44. > :48:48.to see what the issues are and then I'll campaign. I'm certainly going
:48:49. > :48:54.to buy a house there if I'm elected. I think, from the point of view of
:48:55. > :48:59.being the MP for Clacton, I think I would be very effective. When I say
:49:00. > :49:07.I'm going to do something, I do it. And I will be aiming to win. I
:49:08. > :49:09.understand -- I'm going to stand, come hell or high water.