:00:00. > :00:15.In 2017, there were 2689 News channels broadcasting fake news, 24
:00:16. > :00:20.hours a day. But in the country that gave you David Dimbleby and Jeremy
:00:21. > :00:24.Paxman, the only way to really hear what was happening in the general
:00:25. > :00:32.election was to June into a boat. You are listening to This Week's
:00:33. > :00:40.pirate radio. We are counting on you as we count down to the big four.
:00:41. > :00:45.Off we go. Jeremy Corbyn is the real deal and I think he will top the
:00:46. > :01:04.charts. They were called pirates. Pirate radio,... These are the high
:01:05. > :01:08.seas. And I am a sad man on the left. And I am lining up the
:01:09. > :01:14.political times for a little programme called this Week. That's
:01:15. > :01:20.our radio show. I thought it was a trashy TV programme with loads of
:01:21. > :01:25.sad old men. The bands made them famous. The government made them
:01:26. > :01:34.outlaws. Drug takers, lawbreakers, we are going to shut them down. I
:01:35. > :01:38.will tell you what is rock'n'roll. Figure out how you are a minority
:01:39. > :01:45.and let that difference shine. We will find a way. The man hates
:01:46. > :01:54.people like us. Tonight, pirate radio dies. But we were so good. We
:01:55. > :02:03.should have our own TV show. Where's Andrew? , bored!
:02:04. > :02:06.Welcome to This Week, the programme of choice
:02:07. > :02:10.And judging by our buoyant ratings, there appear to be quite a lot
:02:11. > :02:12.of you out there including, according to Boris
:02:13. > :02:15.Yes, elections are always enlivened when BoJo reaches
:02:16. > :02:17.for his well-thumbed thesaurus, and one of the delights of the last
:02:18. > :02:24.24 hours has been watching the media turn on a sixpence.
:02:25. > :02:26.Having reported widely on Wednesday that BoJo was being written out
:02:27. > :02:29.of the Tory campaign script, they then rushed on Thursday to fill
:02:30. > :02:34.their front pages and broadcasts with his latest utterances.
:02:35. > :02:37.Normally, we would not dare to cross swords with Boris when it
:02:38. > :02:40.comes to vocabulary - especially Latin or Greek vocabulary
:02:41. > :02:45.- but now that he's deploying a term of abuse from the American political
:02:46. > :02:48.lexicon, which is where mugwump comes from, then no Oxford
:02:49. > :02:51.classicist is going to get the better of us.
:02:52. > :02:54.So we say this to the Foreign Secretary -
:02:55. > :02:58.you may think the Labour leader a mugwump, but we will not let any
:02:59. > :03:03.prestidigitation on your part sully this election and we're on the look
:03:04. > :03:08.out for double-shuffling, honeyfuggling, hornswoggling
:03:09. > :03:13.and boondoggling from whatever party it emanates from in this campaign.
:03:14. > :03:16.I think you know what we mean, Mr Johnson.
:03:17. > :03:19.And if you do, I'd be grateful if you could let us know too.
:03:20. > :03:21.Because, not for the first time, we have no idea
:03:22. > :03:26.Speaking of those for whom words have no meaning, I'm joined
:03:27. > :03:29.on the sofa tonight by two old timers stuck in a time warp
:03:30. > :03:36.Think of them as the Banana and Rama of late night political chat.
:03:37. > :03:39.I speak of course of Alan #SadManOnTheLeft Johnson and Michael
:03:40. > :03:56.Your moment of the week, Michael. Following the first round of the
:03:57. > :03:59.French election, the President of the European Commission was very
:04:00. > :04:06.pleased that Mr Macron had beaten Marine Le Pen. First of all, he is
:04:07. > :04:09.an official of the European Union and has no business interfering in
:04:10. > :04:14.the internal politics of a member state. Also, he should not be so
:04:15. > :04:18.happy because 45% of the French people voted for parties which are
:04:19. > :04:22.antipathetic to the European Union, in France, a founder member of the
:04:23. > :04:27.Common Market. But what Europe is on course to do, as ever, is to ignore
:04:28. > :04:31.these substantial minorities, a minority that is only just a
:04:32. > :04:34.minority in France, get on with more, closer and stronger Europe and
:04:35. > :04:41.the rest of it. It is a good reason to be on the outside. Your moment of
:04:42. > :04:45.the week. On that theme, a splash in the Times on Saturday which said
:04:46. > :04:50.that the Trump administration had said they would put as a priority a
:04:51. > :04:53.trade deal with the EU. In January when Boris Johnson went to meet
:04:54. > :04:58.Donald Trump, they had a story that said they would put Britain at the
:04:59. > :05:02.front. The story was enlightening in terms of Trump's learning process.
:05:03. > :05:07.Apparently, he met Angela Merkel and said ten times, I want to do a trade
:05:08. > :05:12.deal with Germany. And ten times she said, you do a trade deal with the
:05:13. > :05:17.EU. And on the 11th time, the penny dropped. He realised if he wanted to
:05:18. > :05:22.deal with Germany, he would do it with the EU, so he made his priority
:05:23. > :05:27.a trade deal with the EU. I was with Paul Ryan last week, and he was head
:05:28. > :05:33.of a bipartisan group here in London, he said Britain was the
:05:34. > :05:35.priority. You tell him, Andrew. Put him right. As usual, Washington
:05:36. > :05:40.speaks with forked tongues. The Tories want to make leadership
:05:41. > :05:42.central to this election, largely because in the polls
:05:43. > :05:45.and focus groups Theresa May scores heavily over
:05:46. > :05:47.Jeremy Corbyn on the issue. But is it really all
:05:48. > :05:49.over bar the shouting? Can the Labour leader's policies
:05:50. > :05:51.and qualities cut through the May mantra of "strong and stable
:05:52. > :05:53.government" and give us Here's Giles Fraser
:05:54. > :06:17.with his take of the week. I do love pottering around
:06:18. > :06:19.in the vicarage garden, doing the weeding, helping
:06:20. > :06:23.make things grow. And when I'm out here with time
:06:24. > :06:27.to think and my hands covered in earth, I do feel I get a wider
:06:28. > :06:30.perspective on the things that matter most in life,
:06:31. > :06:32.the importance of everyone living on this planet peacefully,
:06:33. > :06:34.the importance of there Do you know, maybe that's why I'm
:06:35. > :06:44.a fan of Jeremy Corbyn. He's not like one of those
:06:45. > :06:48.politicians that's just stepped out of an investment bank,
:06:49. > :06:51.and he doesn't look like he's been on one of those
:06:52. > :06:53.media courses either. He reminds me of one of those
:06:54. > :06:56.17th-century diggers who go on about the earth being a common
:06:57. > :07:02.treasury for all. He seems like an ordinary bloke
:07:03. > :07:09.concerned with ordinary people. He's often got the lowest expenses
:07:10. > :07:11.of any other parliamentarian, and for me has clearly got
:07:12. > :07:15.the well-being of the poor and the disadvantaged
:07:16. > :07:20.very much at heart. I trust him not
:07:21. > :07:24.to start stupid wars. I trust him to try and get
:07:25. > :07:27.rid of nuclear weapons. And I trust him not to represent
:07:28. > :07:43.the interests of big business. Look, I know he's
:07:44. > :07:48.behind in the polls. But the pollsters have got it wrong
:07:49. > :07:53.a lot of times before. And I think he's a decent bloke,
:07:54. > :07:59.who is making the case with quite And I think people should
:08:00. > :08:15.give him a chance. The rose has always been
:08:16. > :08:18.popular with socialists. I know this one's a bit battered,
:08:19. > :08:21.but they are remarkably hardy plants and they'll survive and flourish
:08:22. > :08:49.in the most difficult Welcome to the programme. Where is
:08:50. > :08:56.Mr Corbyn's brand of socialism work? I hope it will work here. But where
:08:57. > :09:01.has it worked elsewhere? I think it is a brand for the future, actually.
:09:02. > :09:08.We are in a time when we really need someone to start talking about
:09:09. > :09:14.common ownership, about a preference for the poor. I think we desperately
:09:15. > :09:20.need someone to start talking about how we make peace around the world.
:09:21. > :09:24.But there is no precedent for this? Well, I think he is the person that
:09:25. > :09:30.could do it. But it hasn't been tried anywhere else? There isn't
:09:31. > :09:35.anybody quite liked Jeremy Corbyn that I can think of. No, I can't
:09:36. > :09:41.think of anybody quite liked Jeremy Corbyn. It hasn't been a popular
:09:42. > :09:45.sort of politics. I would like to see it more popular. So you want the
:09:46. > :09:53.country to put faith in a man who has been impolitic for 40 years or
:09:54. > :09:56.so but never been in power, -- who has been in politics for 40 years
:09:57. > :10:03.but never been in power with a blueprint that has no precedents?
:10:04. > :10:07.Yes, that is what it is to change. Things have gone so wrong in this
:10:08. > :10:11.country and so out of whack that we are desperate for something
:10:12. > :10:15.different. And I trust him, you know. I trust him, that he has the
:10:16. > :10:22.interests of ordinary people at heart. As I said, I trust that he
:10:23. > :10:25.will not start stupid wars, that he will try to register dependency on
:10:26. > :10:32.nuclear weapons, that he is not in the pocket of big business. You say
:10:33. > :10:36.that, but it is not Labour policy to end the nuclear deterrent. I was
:10:37. > :10:41.careful in my construction. I said I trust him to argue for it. He
:10:42. > :10:46.clearly wants to end it. He has a difference with his party but I am
:10:47. > :10:52.within. But he would be elected on a manifesto of keeping the nuclear
:10:53. > :10:56.deterrent. My faith is in him. Why would you trust him to be elected on
:10:57. > :11:01.a part of a manifesto he does not agree with? My instinct is that he
:11:02. > :11:05.is much more antinuclear than the rest of his party and I am putting
:11:06. > :11:10.my faith in him on that. Is he looking at Jeremy Corbyn through
:11:11. > :11:15.rose tinted glasses? He was in the Rose garden. Jeremy has never
:11:16. > :11:21.professed to be anything different than he is now. In that sense, he
:11:22. > :11:24.has never changed. I understand the view of this attraction of someone
:11:25. > :11:30.who sticks to the views they have had since they were 15. But this is
:11:31. > :11:35.his chance. This is his chance. You said give him a chance. For six
:11:36. > :11:38.weeks, he is going to get, with the balanced broadcast on the BBC and
:11:39. > :11:43.the rest of it, with all the attention that will be on him,
:11:44. > :11:48.whether this can break through, whether this amazing appeal that
:11:49. > :11:54.Jeremy has had too many young people, you find this all the time,
:11:55. > :11:57.teenagers who do not remember the militant years, who see something
:11:58. > :12:01.fresh, whether that can translate into... I think he is wrong to vote
:12:02. > :12:07.with Theresa May to have the election. I voted against that. It
:12:08. > :12:10.is amazing. It is history now, but that we should agree with Theresa
:12:11. > :12:16.May on this incredible idea that the country is coming together but
:12:17. > :12:20.Westminster isn't. It is fine for to do this but she came in on a
:12:21. > :12:26.Fixed-term Parliaments Act we have now allowed her to have an election
:12:27. > :12:29.after two years. Could you be forgiven for thinking that Alan is
:12:30. > :12:35.setting Mr Corbyn up for a fail? He is giving him six weeks. Of rope.
:12:36. > :12:41.The other day he was willing to give him 15 months, but I think Alan is
:12:42. > :12:46.right, he does have six weeks. Giles' film was touching. I was
:12:47. > :12:50.moved by it. It was the best effort that can be made to argue for Jeremy
:12:51. > :12:54.Corbyn. It is just a pity Giles is not a member of Parliament because
:12:55. > :12:57.the vast majority of Labour members of Parliament have expressed no
:12:58. > :13:04.confidence in him. Day after day, Labour spokesmen go on the media and
:13:05. > :13:08.are asked the rather difficult question. You said before that
:13:09. > :13:12.Jeremy Corbyn can't cut it, and now you are representing Labour Party
:13:13. > :13:15.policy. This is going to be a continual difficulty in the
:13:16. > :13:20.election, that even the people in the Shadow Cabinet now had resigned
:13:21. > :13:25.in the past, and most have a clear record of saying this man cannot be
:13:26. > :13:31.a leader. You are right and it is problematic. I don't know whether
:13:32. > :13:36.Jeremy Corbyn has to go, even if he loses this election. I'm not
:13:37. > :13:40.entirely sure that is right. I think he has been undermined by many
:13:41. > :13:48.people within his party, and I think it is incredibly difficult to be a
:13:49. > :13:52.leader of a political party if all of your MPs just constantly asked
:13:53. > :13:56.adding you in the back. Let me bring you back to some issues Mr Corbyn
:13:57. > :14:00.has raised. Before you can redistribute wealth to the poor, you
:14:01. > :14:05.need to create it. What evidence do you have that Mr Corbyn knows how to
:14:06. > :14:09.create wealth. The other way of looking at it this to say that we --
:14:10. > :14:15.we would be a more equal but a poorer society. I would be happy
:14:16. > :14:19.with us being more equal but a poorer society. That's an election
:14:20. > :14:24.winning slogan? It's not an election winning slogan. I'm not standing for
:14:25. > :14:27.election. Even if we wanted to be poorer, if you are going to
:14:28. > :14:32.redistribute wealth, you need to create it to do it. How do we know
:14:33. > :14:37.that Mr Corbyn knows how to create wealth? He would not create wealth.
:14:38. > :14:42.It is the wealth creators out in the country. He would set the
:14:43. > :14:50.conditions. Absolutely. But we have this obsession that we have to let
:14:51. > :14:54.these people who apparently make the money... Actually, wealth is not
:14:55. > :15:00.something that is sort of made by entrepreneurs. Wealth is in the
:15:01. > :15:07.world. It is the resources that we have and that we all have in common.
:15:08. > :15:13.And I am suspicious of the idea that we need to be totally in hock to
:15:14. > :15:17.entrepreneurs. I simply asked how Mr Corbyn would create it. Let me ask
:15:18. > :15:23.another. You mentioned several times that Mr Corbyn was a man of peace.
:15:24. > :15:29.How does that square with his past ties to Hamas, Hezbollah and Sinn
:15:30. > :15:34.Fein IRA? In order to make peace, you have to talk to the bad guys.
:15:35. > :15:41.When he talked to Sinn Fein and IRA it wasn't to make peace. He wanted
:15:42. > :15:46.the IRA to winch he wanted a united Ireland? A lot of people want a
:15:47. > :15:51.united Ireland Why does it make him a man of peace - I didn't say that
:15:52. > :15:59.is what makes him a man of peace, you brought that up. I'm gjing him -
:16:00. > :16:04.I think he is a man of peace. If he supports Hamas and Hezbollah. We are
:16:05. > :16:06.high-and-mighty, we talk to people behind-the-scenes we won't be
:16:07. > :16:12.upfront about the fact we talk to people... Hold on, he wasn't talking
:16:13. > :16:16.to Hezbollah to say - you need to make peace with Israel, you need to
:16:17. > :16:21.get round the table. He didn't talk to to Hezbollah for that? That's the
:16:22. > :16:25.long-term aim of the context. The short-term aim was to drive Israel
:16:26. > :16:31.into the sea. Does that sound like a man of peace. That is not his aim.
:16:32. > :16:34.I'm not saying that was his. That was Hezbollah and Hamas. The
:16:35. > :16:40.question is, do we keep our hands clean by never talking to the
:16:41. > :16:44.baddies or do we make peace and dirty our hand by doing it and
:16:45. > :16:49.actually there is a much better outcome for everybody I think too
:16:50. > :16:53.many politicians are squeamish about talking to the bodies and we don't
:16:54. > :16:59.make peace of it. Are the Tories so far ahead because of Theresa May or
:17:00. > :17:02.Jeremy Corbyn? A a little bit of both. When I first saw there was
:17:03. > :17:09.going to be a election I thought to myself - it will be a crushing Tory
:17:10. > :17:13.victory. I thought that is not right, it will be a crushing Labour
:17:14. > :17:17.defeat. The principle factor will be the poor performance of the Labour
:17:18. > :17:23.Party. That having been said, I'm quite struck by a level of
:17:24. > :17:27.contentment in the country there seems to be with this Prime Minister
:17:28. > :17:32.who in a short period of time has given an impression of strength and
:17:33. > :17:35.has not committed the Cameron mistake of being too mouthy shechl
:17:36. > :17:41.hasn't said a thing. Or done anything. Isn't the key word
:17:42. > :17:45."impression"? I would agree. But politics is all about impressions
:17:46. > :17:48.and she's got the impression right and now she's decided to have an
:17:49. > :17:52.election. She's probably got the impression and the timing right. If
:17:53. > :17:57.the Doring Tories do win by a landslide, what happens to Mr
:17:58. > :18:05.Corbyn? He has to go, of course. Giles doesn't say that. He said he
:18:06. > :18:17.should stay. No leader can Corry on after a defeat. There is a poll this
:18:18. > :18:22.morning shows personal ratings of May coming down and Corbyn going up.
:18:23. > :18:29.A lot to be done in six weeks. Some of this is about what you were
:18:30. > :18:33.talking, the impression. Many people I've spoken to, vicar's daughter, an
:18:34. > :18:38.election might be good for me personally and my party. I will not
:18:39. > :18:43.have one. She poured cold water on it, so did Number Ten, three weeks
:18:44. > :18:47.ago, we shouldn't look sight of the fact she has broken her word. She
:18:48. > :18:53.introduced fix term parliament. She is running to the country. It's wet
:18:54. > :18:58.better to do it now... It's water under the bridge. It is, but while
:18:59. > :19:04.we are having a discussion about personal integrity I think it's
:19:05. > :19:08.valid. Not me though. Today is your last day as an MP. Next Wednesday.
:19:09. > :19:13.The Parliament is gone now, you won't be in a chamber again. No. Are
:19:14. > :19:18.you standing down partly out of despair? I'm standing down
:19:19. > :19:22.absolutely because of my age and I don't want to do another five years
:19:23. > :19:25.as a member of Parliament. It has nothing to do with the state of the
:19:26. > :19:28.parties. Do you expect, because you said you don't believe the polls.
:19:29. > :19:37.There is often be very good reason for that. Do you expect top see the
:19:38. > :19:41.polls starting to narrow? I'm not an anorak like you, Andrew, I don't
:19:42. > :19:46.watch the polls all the time. You won't win? Is I'm taking the
:19:47. > :19:49.Leicester City defence on this. What does that mean? No-one thought
:19:50. > :19:56.Leicester City could win anything. They managed to do it against all
:19:57. > :20:00.the odds. There may well be a movement and Jeremy Corbyn might
:20:01. > :20:03.surprise a lot of people. OK, the polls indicate otherwise, but, you
:20:04. > :20:07.know, the pollsters have been wrong a lot. They would have to be really
:20:08. > :20:14.wrong this time, wouldn't they? There would be a lot of egg on a lot
:20:15. > :20:17.of face. There surely would. That might not be a gad thing either.
:20:18. > :20:21.Giles Frazier, thank you. Now, it's late, nights out in Soho
:20:22. > :20:23.with Tim Farron late. It's not been a great week
:20:24. > :20:26.for the Lib Dem leader. He wants to talk about Brexit,
:20:27. > :20:29.but was repeatedly drawn off script to explain his attitude to gay sex
:20:30. > :20:31.and anti-Semitism in his party. He's not quite the poster boy
:20:32. > :20:34.for gays or Jews these days and if you're a gay Jew,
:20:35. > :20:37.then he's almost certainly But cheer up, Little Tim,
:20:38. > :20:41.because waiting in the wings is screenwriter, producer
:20:42. > :20:44.and director extraordinaire, Dustin Lance Black, here to put
:20:45. > :20:46.minorities in our Spotlight. So throw on the Fleecebook,
:20:47. > :20:50.phone your Instagranny and fire up the Twitterdrivel,
:20:51. > :20:53.my little Snap numptys. The Tory lead in the polls has led
:20:54. > :20:56.to much talk of tactical voting and progressive alliances clubbing
:20:57. > :20:58.behind the person most likely to beat the Tory
:20:59. > :21:00.in any constituency. Tony Blair gave the idea a whirl
:21:01. > :21:04.on Sunday, then kinda The nation was too traumatised
:21:05. > :21:08.by his threat to return There are a few constituencies
:21:09. > :21:12.where it's being tried, often involving Greens making way
:21:13. > :21:15.for Lib Dems and vice-versa. There are infinite variations to it
:21:16. > :21:20.and, tho it's unlikely to have much impact in the end,
:21:21. > :21:31.one projection I saw resulted in a Plaid Cymru with an overall
:21:32. > :21:34.majority led by Pete Here's Helen Lewis with her round up
:21:35. > :21:38.of the political week. When This Week first said
:21:39. > :21:41.they wanted me to 'do an Aaron Banks', I worried
:21:42. > :21:44.they meant going to Clacton. So I've dodged the battle buses,
:21:45. > :21:51.baby kissing and BBC editorial guidelines and taken
:21:52. > :21:55.to the high seas. Yes, I've launched a pirate radio
:21:56. > :22:01.station - This Week FM. We'll be broadcasting live around
:22:02. > :22:04.the clock to our loyal listener. What do you say DJ
:22:05. > :22:06.Cabin Boy, a sea shanty! # What do you do
:22:07. > :22:13.with a drunken sailor. # Early in the morning #.
:22:14. > :22:25.with a drunken sailor Labour wants to fight
:22:26. > :22:27.this election on jobs, living standards and public
:22:28. > :22:31.services, but it had to start the week by clarifying its position
:22:32. > :22:34.on Trident after Jeremy Corbyn said in an interview that the nuclear
:22:35. > :22:38.deterrent was still up for debate. Would a Labour Government cancel
:22:39. > :22:41.the Trident programme? Well, we will have a Strategic
:22:42. > :22:44.Defence Review immediately which will include all aspects
:22:45. > :22:47.of defence, as most Look, I've made clear my views
:22:48. > :22:51.on nuclear weapons. I've made clear that there
:22:52. > :22:54.would be no first use of it. I've made clear that any use
:22:55. > :22:57.of nuclear weapons is a disaster You're listening to the salty
:22:58. > :23:01.stylings of This Week FM. Cabin Boy, you've
:23:02. > :23:08.tweeted the subwaffers. This is an election,
:23:09. > :23:11.I need to be broadcasting clearly. This of course is the Brexit
:23:12. > :23:14.election, and Labour sought to put some clear blue water
:23:15. > :23:16.between themselves and the Conservatives,
:23:17. > :23:18.promising to safeguard the rights of EU nationals
:23:19. > :23:22.in the UK on day one. But, just like the Tories,
:23:23. > :23:24.Labour's position on overall numbers Freedom of movement has to go and,
:23:25. > :23:31.therefore, it will have to change, but we must have immigration that
:23:32. > :23:34.works for our communities and for our economy and that means
:23:35. > :23:37.that there has to be movement of people to come and
:23:38. > :23:40.work in this country. How that's managed will
:23:41. > :23:43.have to be resolved. Labour's difficulty is this -
:23:44. > :23:46.how does it win over voters from Ukip and the Tories
:23:47. > :23:48.without losing them And talking of the Greens,
:23:49. > :23:54.they've stood aside in two London seats, Ealing and Acton,
:23:55. > :23:56.so they don't split the left. Tactical voting, while not
:23:57. > :24:00.officially sanctioned from the top, looks set to play a big role
:24:01. > :24:03.in this election. The whole idea around progressive
:24:04. > :24:06.alliances is that it isn't just one party standing down for another,
:24:07. > :24:08.but it's people reciprocating, people working together,
:24:09. > :24:10.recognising the common good Fresh from a by-election defeat,
:24:11. > :24:18.it's leader, Paul Nuttall is running on a pretty
:24:19. > :24:21.clear anti-Muslim agenda. He called for a ban on the burka
:24:22. > :24:24.and was forced to clarify it # Wicked, wicked,
:24:25. > :24:34.jungle is massive #. That means beekeepers, Beefeaters,
:24:35. > :24:43.the Cat in the Hat and even Speedy Gonzales are all welcome
:24:44. > :24:46.in Paul Nuttall's integrated utopia. I mean, the fact is the veil
:24:47. > :24:51.covers the full face. For CCTV to be effective,
:24:52. > :24:57.you have to see people's faces. But there's another element to this,
:24:58. > :24:59.an important element, As Dame Casey's report showed,
:25:00. > :25:02.we're not integrating fast enough. In fact, communities
:25:03. > :25:04.are becoming more divided and for people to integrate fully,
:25:05. > :25:07.you need to see people's faces. The Lib Dems might have
:25:08. > :25:09.been all at sea over Tim Farron's religious views,
:25:10. > :25:12.but there were positive signs, too. They say party membership is over
:25:13. > :25:15.100,000 and Tim Farron wants to position himself as -
:25:16. > :25:18.the real opposition. If you believe that it should not be
:25:19. > :25:24.politicians who stitch up the final deal in two years' time,
:25:25. > :25:28.but the British people who should have the final say
:25:29. > :25:30.and that would include, by the way, the right to remain
:25:31. > :25:33.if that is what they choose. And if you believe that Britain
:25:34. > :25:37.needs a decent, strong opposition, the Liberal Democrats are the only
:25:38. > :25:40.party for you. We have been clear today
:25:41. > :25:43.and I have been clear today, that we will not be entering
:25:44. > :25:46.into coalition or any deal whatsoever with Labour
:25:47. > :25:48.or Conservatives under Theresa May Meanwhile, there's no love
:25:49. > :25:53.lost between Theresa May In fact, the First Minister
:25:54. > :25:58.definitely knows who she thinks The issue and the threat
:25:59. > :26:04.at this election is that, due to Labour's complete
:26:05. > :26:07.unelectability, we face an unfettered, out of
:26:08. > :26:12.control Tory Government. We know that the Prime Minister
:26:13. > :26:15.wants to silence opposition. So the question for Scotland is this
:26:16. > :26:18.- if you want a strong opposition to the Tories,
:26:19. > :26:21.if you want MPs who will stand up and be a voice for Scotland,
:26:22. > :26:24.then the only party to support at this election
:26:25. > :26:29.is this one, the SNP. Still, with such a whopping poll
:26:30. > :26:32.lead, the Tories can afford to run a low-key or,
:26:33. > :26:37.shall we say, dull campaign. So Theresa May went
:26:38. > :26:39.to Bridgend in Wales, formally a Labour heartland,
:26:40. > :26:41.where she delivered her key message Every single vote for me
:26:42. > :26:49.and the local Conservative candidate will be a vote for a stronger Wales,
:26:50. > :26:52.for a stronger United Kingdom and, as I say, will strengthen my
:26:53. > :26:55.hand in those important And a vote for any other party
:26:56. > :27:04.would be a vote for a weak and failing Jeremy Corbyn,
:27:05. > :27:06.propped up by a coalition of chaos which would risk
:27:07. > :27:12.our national future. So, the battle lines are clear,
:27:13. > :27:15.but there are still big questions to answer on taxes,
:27:16. > :27:18.pensions and spending. Not that you'll know
:27:19. > :27:21.it from the last PMQs of the parliamentary season
:27:22. > :27:23.which both Corbyn and May used as a kind of unofficial party
:27:24. > :27:28.political broadcast. They are strong against the weak
:27:29. > :27:34.and weak against the strong. Mr Speaker, the election
:27:35. > :27:37.on the 8th June is a choice ..between a Conservative Government
:27:38. > :27:49.for the few and a Labour Government that will stand up for all
:27:50. > :27:52.of our people. In something over six weeks,
:27:53. > :27:56.we will be back at these dispatch boxes again and the only question
:27:57. > :28:02.is - where will we be standing? Who will be Prime Minister
:28:03. > :28:06.of this great country? He says the choice is clear,
:28:07. > :28:10.and the choice is clear. Every vote for him is a vote
:28:11. > :28:15.for a coalition of chaos. A weak leader, propped up
:28:16. > :28:20.by the Liberal Democrats Every vote for me is a vote
:28:21. > :28:28.for strong and stable leadership. With us now, Green Super-woman,
:28:29. > :28:59.Sian Berry and SNP Super to have you both. Thank you.
:29:00. > :29:03.Is this election as much a foregone conclusion as the polls would have
:29:04. > :29:07.us believe I don't think so. The exciting thing going on is the
:29:08. > :29:10.discussion about potential alliances. We are not talking about
:29:11. > :29:14.doing it in every single seat. In a handful of seats where it might work
:29:15. > :29:17.it seems to be coming together. People are genuinely talking about
:29:18. > :29:21.it. The polls don't tell you what will happen in these handful of
:29:22. > :29:24.seats. I think it is very unpredictable what we will end up. A
:29:25. > :29:31.handful of seats, if the polls are right, will not be enough to stop a
:29:32. > :29:35.Tory landslide? It wouldn't. She will run ramp pant if she gets a
:29:36. > :29:39.majority more than 100. She might run ramp pant with 50. She might.
:29:40. > :29:47.She says she doesn't want opposition. There's that old line,
:29:48. > :29:51.that cliche - nobody leaves Number Ten Downing Street entirely sane.
:29:52. > :29:56.The big your majority the worse it is. Look at Margaret Thatcher, the
:29:57. > :30:01.way she behaved in Scotland. Left unhappy memories in Scotland. Does
:30:02. > :30:06.that apply to the SNP who have so many seats in Scotland?
:30:07. > :30:13.You swept Scotland with a massive majority. Surely the same principle
:30:14. > :30:18.applies. That is the voting system we have. I don't think big
:30:19. > :30:22.majorities are good for government. They don't lead to sensitive,
:30:23. > :30:26.measured That is the government. Point of the progressive alliance.
:30:27. > :30:29.The reason it's so important is to prevent a large Tory majority but
:30:30. > :30:34.also to get a majority of people in parliament who are willing to change
:30:35. > :30:37.the voting system so we have a more grownup and diverse You are a
:30:38. > :30:42.politics. Long way from that. What do the Greens hope to achieve in
:30:43. > :30:46.this election We at the moment in the election campaign we are leading
:30:47. > :30:50.the conversation we put ourselves out there, putting our principles
:30:51. > :30:55.before party. What do you hope to achieve To argue for improving the
:30:56. > :31:00.NHS. Things we can achieve without, if we can stop the Tory majority we
:31:01. > :31:05.can get proper Brexit negotiations, a final say for the public on Brexit
:31:06. > :31:09.and prevent the enormous increase in child poverty, the chaos that is
:31:10. > :31:15.happening in the NHS. Any normal parent - Mr Corbyn wants to do that
:31:16. > :31:20.as well. Why not Forlan him We are distinct parties. Everything you
:31:21. > :31:24.just said there is part of Mr Corbyn's agenda. His chances may not
:31:25. > :31:29.be great. They are better than yours. We have bold social policies.
:31:30. > :31:31.We are more creative with our social policies than Labour. We are the
:31:32. > :31:35.party you can trust on the environment. With air pollution on
:31:36. > :31:37.the front pages every single day at the moment, the Government doing
:31:38. > :31:41.everything it can to get out of doing anything about it. We are
:31:42. > :31:46.there with an important message. If you double your seats, will you have
:31:47. > :31:51.two. You are on a long-haul to nowhere? We are doing something more
:31:52. > :31:56.exciting. We are offering voters the choice of changing politics forever
:31:57. > :32:00.by - It doesn't seem - By voting and being tactical about how to prevent
:32:01. > :32:04.a Conservative majority. The Germans have the voting system you want or a
:32:05. > :32:10.version of. One of the ones we might choose. Even the German Greens, far
:32:11. > :32:16.better established than you, they have been in Government, more bigger
:32:17. > :32:21.party, they are struggling to poll 5% in the run-up to the German
:32:22. > :32:26.elections. Maybe the age of a separate Green Party if it can't
:32:27. > :32:32.survive that well in Germany is coming to an end? Vote for Greens up
:32:33. > :32:35.to 10%, 20% in countries around Europe. We have a strong voice in
:32:36. > :32:43.some of the governments around Europe. There is - My line is - if
:32:44. > :32:46.the German Greens have been the most successful Green Party in Europe
:32:47. > :32:52.they are in decline that must cause you concern?
:32:53. > :33:01.They are still a strong party. If they do not get 5%, they get no
:33:02. > :33:06.seats in parliament. That is the national parliament. We are running
:33:07. > :33:09.governments around the German federal state. We are strong in
:33:10. > :33:16.Sweden and many countries around the world. What is this election about
:33:17. > :33:21.for the SNP? I agree with the Prime Minister. I think this election is
:33:22. > :33:27.about Brexit. I think Britain will get a very rough deal. We heard that
:33:28. > :33:31.from Mrs Merkel today. I have been in Germany recently talking to
:33:32. > :33:36.politicians there and there is unity among the 27. I think the deal is
:33:37. > :33:41.going to be very tough. But what is the election about? It is about
:33:42. > :33:43.electing a parliament which I hope will provide sufficiently strong
:33:44. > :33:50.opposition that Mrs May is constrained, because I don't want to
:33:51. > :33:55.see her with a huge majority. The party that Mrs May is nervous of is
:33:56. > :34:00.the SNP. She's not worried about the Labour Party because it is divided,
:34:01. > :34:05.she is worried about the SNP. The Lib Dems are not going to get more
:34:06. > :34:10.than a handful of seats. Is the SNP still in favour of joining the EU?
:34:11. > :34:13.Yes. I don't know what will be in the manifesto because I'm not
:34:14. > :34:20.involved in writing it. I am involved in drafting things for my
:34:21. > :34:26.area, culture, media and sport. Has not been clear, the SNP's... I think
:34:27. > :34:29.it is. The chair of the EU select committee in Berlin in the Bundestag
:34:30. > :34:34.told me that Scotland would gain faster and easier entry to the
:34:35. > :34:38.European Union than any other applicant. You said that last time.
:34:39. > :34:43.I wondered if there was a clear commitment for an independent
:34:44. > :34:47.Scotland to join the EU in the manifesto. I hope so because I think
:34:48. > :34:53.it is the right policy. You don't know. What do you make of the
:34:54. > :34:56.Progressive Alliance idea? I think the Lib Dems have pulled out of
:34:57. > :35:03.Brighton to give Caroline Lucas a clear run but that only gives you
:35:04. > :35:09.the seat you already have. We can win Bristol on our own, we do not
:35:10. > :35:14.need a deal there. You pulled out of Richmond to give the Lib Dems a
:35:15. > :35:19.clear run. I do think that has been decided. Does it work? One of the
:35:20. > :35:23.things that brings progressive together is unanimity that they want
:35:24. > :35:25.higher public spending. What that means is passing a bigger burden of
:35:26. > :35:31.debt down to our children and grandchildren. That means people who
:35:32. > :35:35.do not have very much money paying income taxes so that the interest on
:35:36. > :35:39.the debt can be paid to people who are rich enough to own gilts or
:35:40. > :35:42.government bonds. So there is nothing progressive about this, it
:35:43. > :35:46.is a policy for the redistribution of wealth from the poorer people to
:35:47. > :35:49.the richer people. My second thought on the Progressive Alliance is that
:35:50. > :35:53.the thought last time that a Labour government would be propped up by
:35:54. > :35:56.the SNP was one of the things that killed Labour's chances of winning.
:35:57. > :36:01.I think people will be very suspicious of this Progressive
:36:02. > :36:09.Alliance again. What is your view of this? I don't think you can do it
:36:10. > :36:12.between parties. People have to do it themselves. If Labour was to pull
:36:13. > :36:16.out in some instances that would be outrageous because there are people
:36:17. > :36:21.who want to vote Labour. So people have to do it themselves. It is not
:36:22. > :36:27.beyond them. I do not think it works so well in general elections. It is
:36:28. > :36:31.better in by-elections. Europe is a big issue which transcends party
:36:32. > :36:34.politics, more important than general elections. Theresa May has
:36:35. > :36:39.reacted to Angela Merkel by saying that we are holding up Brexit. She
:36:40. > :36:44.is holding it up by having a bloody election, losing two months of her
:36:45. > :36:49.precious two years. Nothing can happen. The French are in the middle
:36:50. > :36:54.of a very messy election. Mr Macron, if it is him, will take several
:36:55. > :36:59.weeks to put a government together. But you take my point, we are not
:37:00. > :37:03.holding up anything. Whether she has chosen the election is up to her,
:37:04. > :37:06.but she has chosen a time which has almost zero impact on Brexit the
:37:07. > :37:14.gauche Asians because of what is happening in France and Germany. You
:37:15. > :37:19.are right, it is very important that it is not a back room deal, which is
:37:20. > :37:24.why we are encouraging people to talk about it in public. You do not
:37:25. > :37:28.need party leaders to agree at the grassroots are talking about it
:37:29. > :37:32.anyway. The voters get it. In the 1997 election there were examples of
:37:33. > :37:38.people doing tactical voting of their own accord. To talk about it
:37:39. > :37:41.openly is important. Is in the alliance mostly a Conservative spin
:37:42. > :37:46.doctor lion that they are feeding to the press? We all know the Labour
:37:47. > :37:52.Party is going to get absolutely whipped. So are the Conservatives if
:37:53. > :37:56.you believe the Progressive Alliance. All the briefing I have
:37:57. > :38:01.had on it has been from the Green Party and people in the Lib Dems and
:38:02. > :38:04.some in the Labour Party. You hear the Conservatives talking about it
:38:05. > :38:08.all the time, not a Progressive Alliance but a coalition of chaos.
:38:09. > :38:13.Mrs May says this every ten minutes. And these talks are not going on.
:38:14. > :38:18.There are a fuse seats where there is locally some discussion. There is
:38:19. > :38:22.huge debate. Maybe not so much in Scotland but people are inundating
:38:23. > :38:28.the Green Party office, ringing up to work out how to support
:38:29. > :38:32.Progressive Alliance. Because your membership has fallen. Jeremy Corbyn
:38:33. > :38:37.is bad news for the Greens and Theresa May is probably bad news for
:38:38. > :38:43.Ukip. She is very good news for the SNP. Really? You are going to lose
:38:44. > :38:51.seats in Scotland, partly because you're coming off a high. It is
:38:52. > :38:56.true, we won many seats last time. There is only one way to go, really.
:38:57. > :38:59.I don't know the answer to that question. There are a couple of
:39:00. > :39:06.closely fought contests but the SNP is doing very well in the polls. The
:39:07. > :39:10.Tories are very overhyped. Ruth Davidson is doing less well now than
:39:11. > :39:17.Mrs Thatcher at her lowest point in the 1980s. Right. But they have
:39:18. > :39:23.done... Are you worried about your seat? You have a Tory challenge
:39:24. > :39:29.there. I have a Tory challenge and a Lib Dem challenge in my seat. I am
:39:30. > :39:35.standing on my two years of record, Andrew. And appearances on this
:39:36. > :39:41.programme. That is what I think will power me over the threshold! Can Mrs
:39:42. > :39:44.May getaway for the next five weeks with just talking about leadership
:39:45. > :39:49.for the rest of the campaign, like a broken record? It will be very
:39:50. > :39:58.interesting to see. She has been pretty successful... Interesting! It
:39:59. > :40:02.will not be interesting at all. I did not say would be interesting in
:40:03. > :40:06.itself, but interesting to see. She does seem to have done remarkable
:40:07. > :40:10.you well at saying very little since she was elected. She said that
:40:11. > :40:14.Brexit means Brexit lots of times. This seems really to have got
:40:15. > :40:18.through to people. We were taught, when we were learning politics, that
:40:19. > :40:21.what you needed to do was have a clear position and say it again and
:40:22. > :40:25.again, and that when you were completely bored of having said it,
:40:26. > :40:31.there would be people who were hearing it for the first time and
:40:32. > :40:37.reacting to it. Someone taught you politics! That was why George Bush
:40:38. > :40:40.always gave the same speech and journalists felt suicidal, and it is
:40:41. > :40:45.the view of Lynton Crosby, who is helping with Mrs May's campaign.
:40:46. > :40:49.Someone on Question Time tonight made fun of the Conservative for
:40:50. > :40:54.parroting, and he did not sound like a lefty. He said, I bet my wife ?10
:40:55. > :40:59.that you would use that line in the first five minutes, and that Tory
:41:00. > :41:01.representative looked sheepish. I think you'll find Tony Blair
:41:02. > :41:04.parroted quite a. Thank you. It's been a week for raising
:41:05. > :41:07.awareness of the plight The Labour Party in Wales,
:41:08. > :41:10.the Labour Party in Scotland, Ukip everywher and English Springer
:41:11. > :41:12.Spaniels in Cambridge. With three pale, stale,
:41:13. > :41:16.Blue Nun-dependent men, This Week exists to champion
:41:17. > :41:20.the representation of That's why we're putting minorities
:41:21. > :41:39.in this week's spotlight. Tony Blair says he wants to stop
:41:40. > :41:42.a minority of right-wingers marching We're just allowing ourselves to be
:41:43. > :41:49.hijacked by what is actually quite a small group of people
:41:50. > :41:57.with a very strong ideology. But Tim Farron seems suddenly
:41:58. > :41:59.cool about minorities after years of avoidance,
:42:00. > :42:02.he's come out and declared gay Despite saying that about women,
:42:03. > :42:20.Donald Trump is apparently equally Thousands of women who have worked
:42:21. > :42:26.with and for my father for decades, when he was in the private sector,
:42:27. > :42:31.are a testament to his belief and solid conviction
:42:32. > :42:39.in the potential of women. But is minority status
:42:40. > :42:41.all about oppression Caitlyn Jenner says this week that
:42:42. > :42:50.she's much happier as a trans woman. I wake up in the morning
:42:51. > :42:53.and all I have to be is myself, Oscar-winning film-maker,
:42:54. > :42:58.Dustin Lance Black, successfully campaigned for equal marriage
:42:59. > :43:03.in the US, but are minority rights And Dustin Lance Black
:43:04. > :43:22.is with us now. Welcome to the programme, good to
:43:23. > :43:28.see you. In many areas, minorities have made great strides in the last
:43:29. > :43:32.few decades. Should they still be higher up the agenda, or has enough
:43:33. > :43:41.been achieved to start to think of other things now? I think you've hit
:43:42. > :43:44.on a good point. A lot has been achieved, particularly for LGB T
:43:45. > :43:48.people. Here, you beat us to the punch in many ways and in the United
:43:49. > :43:53.States we have been catching up. But I think we have become a bit drunk
:43:54. > :43:57.on our success in the LGB T community, and become a bit myopic
:43:58. > :44:02.as a group when we do that. And there is danger in that. The danger
:44:03. > :44:06.is we become so self-interested we forget the most powerful thing you
:44:07. > :44:11.can do as a minority, to recognise or interconnectedness with other
:44:12. > :44:15.minority groups. LGB T a quality did not happen because a bunch of gay
:44:16. > :44:18.people rose up and fought back. It happened because we understood we
:44:19. > :44:21.needed to reach out and help our brothers and sisters in racial
:44:22. > :44:26.minority communities, to work together with the unions, with
:44:27. > :44:32.workers... It was part of a general fairness agenda. Yes, we helped
:44:33. > :44:35.others with their needs, understanding there is an
:44:36. > :44:38.interconnectedness of minority people, and we need each other if we
:44:39. > :44:42.are going to succeed at things like the ballot box. When you forget
:44:43. > :44:47.about those connections, when you forget about that Army, you start to
:44:48. > :44:53.lose. I wrote the show in the United States called when we rise, which
:44:54. > :44:59.focuses on the coalitions that created the progress that got us
:45:00. > :45:03.where we are today, because walking up the Supreme Court steps for
:45:04. > :45:08.marriage equality, I worry that we were so much out just for ourselves
:45:09. > :45:13.that we made ourselves week. I am just back from France, where there
:45:14. > :45:19.is an election going on. Is it a cause for concern, or actually a
:45:20. > :45:24.breakthrough that gay Frenchman, particularly men, are voting for
:45:25. > :45:27.Marine Le Pen? I think it's a cause for concern. I think that's exactly
:45:28. > :45:34.the kind of self-centredness that is dangerous. That creates the
:45:35. > :45:38.divisions that says, hey, we can be defeated because we have forgotten
:45:39. > :45:43.we are not alone as a minority, as a group of people who are vulnerable
:45:44. > :45:48.at the ballot box. Because there are other minorities. Quite a remarkable
:45:49. > :45:54.figure, almost 30% of Hispanics voted for Donald Trump. That means
:45:55. > :46:03.70% did not. But that is a lot. It is a good fair amount. Not much
:46:04. > :46:08.fewer than Mitt Romney. Right. But some of that is the make-up of
:46:09. > :46:12.Latina people in the United States. It is in their traditions to vote
:46:13. > :46:16.along party lines, and sometimes that is not voting for your best
:46:17. > :46:20.interests. There are traditions in families where that is what is
:46:21. > :46:24.taught and understood and we vote along party lines. I don't think
:46:25. > :46:30.it's beneficial, and I do think that a lot of people at this point regret
:46:31. > :46:34.those votes. I also think there is right now, and you see it in France,
:46:35. > :46:38.and I saw it when I was here with Brexit, and certainly with Donald
:46:39. > :46:43.Trump, not taking sides on any of those, I feel there is a lot of talk
:46:44. > :46:49.about fear. I just heard Theresa May say this whole election was to
:46:50. > :46:53.prevent chaos. That is stoking fear. Where is the positive vision? This
:46:54. > :46:57.is a great nation. I am here because I love this country, it has done
:46:58. > :47:02.great things, built great things, explore the world, set wonderful
:47:03. > :47:05.example is when it comes to minority protections, providing health care
:47:06. > :47:09.for your people. I know there is more to be done but you have set a
:47:10. > :47:20.great example in so many ways. Where is that constructive vision? That is
:47:21. > :47:23.a good point. Where is the vision? One of the reasons the Remain
:47:24. > :47:27.campaign lost was that there was no vision about what sort of Europe it
:47:28. > :47:31.wanted. Since then, Mrs May has put forward a bit of a vision. It is
:47:32. > :47:35.rather challenging some of the things you said, it is about a
:47:36. > :47:38.global Britain, establishing relationships with countries
:47:39. > :47:42.neglected during the period we have been in the European Union, about
:47:43. > :47:47.developing free trade, using our freedom to become more competitive.
:47:48. > :47:50.I think there is quite a lot of vision, actually. I think your
:47:51. > :47:53.remark might have a general application but I don't think it
:47:54. > :47:58.particularly applies to what is going on right now. What you see
:47:59. > :48:01.about Europe, our decision to leave, is the rise of nationalism, which
:48:02. > :48:07.carries with it a kind of intolerance. In my youth, we
:48:08. > :48:12.chemically castrated gay men for being homosexual, by the state. What
:48:13. > :48:16.we did to disabled people was awful, the way people of other colours were
:48:17. > :48:20.treated was awful. All those things have changed but now you hear people
:48:21. > :48:25.saying that it is liberalism that has created these terrible things we
:48:26. > :48:29.have to escape from. Part of the reason Europe came together was to
:48:30. > :48:32.stop the rise of nationalism. Whether you see it with Marine Le
:48:33. > :48:36.Pen or with Trump, you are seeing that returning, that we can all be
:48:37. > :48:40.protected, we can go behind our barriers.
:48:41. > :48:54.When you hear talk about Tony Blair talking about a majority of British
:48:55. > :49:01.people who voted in a referendum. He says who is driving the bus. I'm
:49:02. > :49:04.starting to hear some ideas of what a post-Brexit world might look like
:49:05. > :49:09.here that might be positive. I'm starting to hear a little bit of
:49:10. > :49:13.that. I'm not inspired by it yet. I don't imagine a lot of people are.
:49:14. > :49:20.What I'm hearing mostly is about the fear. The division that is have to
:49:21. > :49:24.be created to keep us safe. In America there was a campaign waged
:49:25. > :49:30.about building a war. It seems similar here certainly to the
:49:31. > :49:35.extreme right now in France where fear is fuelling... There is a lot
:49:36. > :49:38.of fear in France. The person who topped the first round was the
:49:39. > :49:42.person who talked about I found that hope. A hopeful moment. I will say.
:49:43. > :49:46.I don't try to get too political and don't align with one political
:49:47. > :49:51.party. In that case, I will say, I do hope he wins. I think that will
:49:52. > :49:55.send a signal that that kind of fear alone won't cut it. That you've got
:49:56. > :49:58.to have a positive vision for how to create progress, no matter what
:49:59. > :50:05.party you are in. What brings you to our shores? Well, love first and
:50:06. > :50:12.foremost! As good a reason as any. Yes. Showed up from an award show to
:50:13. > :50:16.visit me. And to be with us. He wanted to see you. First and
:50:17. > :50:26.foremost it's that. It's a beautiful country. I was not born here, but I
:50:27. > :50:29.do love it and I treasure it and I want it to do well and set a
:50:30. > :50:33.positive example. I hope there will be leaders here who will start to
:50:34. > :50:37.promote a vision of progress. I think that could be very exciting.
:50:38. > :50:38.Whatever reason you are here, we are delighted you are. Thank you very
:50:39. > :50:42.much. Thank you. That's your lot for tonight, folks,
:50:43. > :50:45.but not for us because we're off to LouLou's brand new venue in Hull
:50:46. > :50:48.for Alan Johnson's goodbye I'm told the goody bags on the way
:50:49. > :50:53.out will contain unsigned copies of this three autobiographies -
:50:54. > :50:57.they're worth more unsigned - and we all can't wait
:50:58. > :50:59.for his farewell rendition Nighty nighty, don't
:51:00. > :52:21.let our man on the left bite. but I was wondering if maybe you
:52:22. > :52:25.might fancy a drink?