:00:35. > :00:39.Tonight, we are sending you back to the future.
:00:40. > :00:41.Wait a minute, Doc Andrew, are you telling me you invented
:00:42. > :01:01.The Tories say Labour would take us back to the 1970s,
:01:02. > :01:06.but could it be back to a brighter and better future?
:01:07. > :01:09.I'm not too sure where, I mean when, we are.
:01:10. > :01:17.I remember when honesty was in fashion but This Week has
:01:18. > :01:28.While we are talking about honesty, this isn't a steering wheel.
:01:29. > :01:30.And is too much immigration overwhelming society's
:01:31. > :01:39.Mass immigration is a ticking time bomb that threatens the very fabric
:01:40. > :01:49.Doc, it's getting out of control we need some better guests.
:01:50. > :01:54.We don't have enough quality to take us through to another series.
:01:55. > :02:10.Where we are in the TV schedule, we don't need quality.
:02:11. > :02:12.Evening all, welcome to This Week, where henceforth this programme
:02:13. > :02:20.Well, if the PM can rebrand the Tories as The May Team
:02:21. > :02:24.After all, when it comes to wooden performances in which tautological
:02:25. > :02:27.vacuities are recycled ad nauseam and the default position is never
:02:28. > :02:30.to answer a question unless it's one that wasn't asked,
:02:31. > :02:34.well, the May Team is no match for the Neil Team.
:02:35. > :02:38.Indeed if imitation is the purest form of flattery, I suspect we've
:02:39. > :02:41.been a bit of an inspiration for the May Team.
:02:42. > :02:43.We've been recycling the same bollocks for 14 years and nobody
:02:44. > :02:47.seems to have noticed, probably because the BBC Yentobs
:02:48. > :02:51.are still out on the lash at this time on a Thursday night
:02:52. > :02:56.You might think The Neil Team repetitive and dull.
:02:57. > :03:02.And light years from the Coalition of Chaos that is the rest
:03:03. > :03:07.But one of the drawbacks of being a team is that you need
:03:08. > :03:13.But here I've taken a leaf out of Mrs May's book.
:03:14. > :03:16.The more useless they are, the better the team leader looks.
:03:17. > :03:20.So, joining me on the sofa tonight are two political nonentities that
:03:21. > :03:23.even the One Show wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
:03:24. > :03:27.I speak of course of Michael #ChooChoo Portillo and Liz
:03:28. > :03:44.Your moment of the week? The firing of Mr Comey, the FBI Director, by
:03:45. > :03:51.the President of the United States, Mr Trump. The manner of it - you are
:03:52. > :03:56.hereby terminated, and the mention in the letter of the fact that the
:03:57. > :03:59.FBI Director told us to Trump three times he was not under
:04:00. > :04:03.investigation, which had nothing to do with the letter. I think he
:04:04. > :04:06.probably was incompetent over the Hillary Clinton e-mail business but
:04:07. > :04:13.why would you fire someone without building the case, unless you were
:04:14. > :04:19.worried about something? And I just do think, the Russian link is now
:04:20. > :04:24.more of a smoking gun than before. I thought it fascinating that the
:04:25. > :04:28.people who run the Nixon library issued a statement pointing out that
:04:29. > :04:34.Richard Nixon had never fired the head of the FBI. It has to be
:04:35. > :04:39.Emmanuel Macron's victory in the presidential elections. And for me,
:04:40. > :04:46.his acceptance speech was very interesting. He acknowledged the
:04:47. > :04:50.anger of Marine Le Pen's voters. He told his supporters to stop booing
:04:51. > :04:54.the people who had voted for Marine Le Pen. He said he had to provide
:04:55. > :04:58.answers for the problems that people had, and that he wanted France not
:04:59. > :05:05.to be the victims of fear, and not to seek -- not to cede ground to
:05:06. > :05:09.defeat and decline. He acknowledged a yearning for change and the
:05:10. > :05:15.challenge for him is to deliver that because Marine Le Pen's supporters
:05:16. > :05:16.will not go away. He has to win a majority now in the Parliamentary
:05:17. > :05:18.elections in June. Now, Theresa May has pledged
:05:19. > :05:21.to reduce net migration to the UK Well, if you haven't got any
:05:22. > :05:25.policies why not just recycle ones you've made before even if you've
:05:26. > :05:28.broken them - twice. Of course Brexit might make more
:05:29. > :05:31.of a dent on the migration numbers. Here's Douglas Murray
:05:32. > :05:44.with his take of the week. Most of us live our lives
:05:45. > :05:48.as though we'll never die. Civilisations have the same
:05:49. > :05:50.habit but they flower I've been travelling the continent
:05:51. > :06:02.recently to study the migration crisis which has been
:06:03. > :06:06.going on for decades. Two things make it
:06:07. > :06:10.into a catastrophe. The first is the mass
:06:11. > :06:12.movement of millions The second, that this
:06:13. > :06:16.should happen at precisely the moment our civilisation lost
:06:17. > :06:25.faith in itself. For Europe was not just
:06:26. > :06:27.a continent but a culture, inviting the world in to join us
:06:28. > :06:30.meant changing that culture, becoming multicultural,
:06:31. > :06:40.a convenor of the world's people. Today, Europe has become a home
:06:41. > :06:42.for anyone in the world who wants to call it home,
:06:43. > :06:45.while the European people are losing the only place
:06:46. > :06:52.they have to call home. Whenever the European public get
:06:53. > :06:54.a chance to send a message to their politicians,
:06:55. > :06:56.they send the same one - But they are consistently not
:06:57. > :07:03.listened to and called every type Europe's political class continued
:07:04. > :07:09.to evade the deep underlying questions they should have been
:07:10. > :07:16.asking years ago. We see this in the UK
:07:17. > :07:19.where the Conservative Party offers Brexit as some kind of panacea
:07:20. > :07:21.and promises things And a Labour Party which doesn't
:07:22. > :07:36.make any promises at all. The European public understandably
:07:37. > :07:38.and consistently reject extremists of all stripes but it leaves them
:07:39. > :07:43.morose without options and, while we may be able to avoid this
:07:44. > :07:48.discussion again this season, And Douglas Murray, author
:07:49. > :08:10.of The Strange Death Michael, what did you make of what
:08:11. > :08:15.Douglas had to say? I think there are some values in Europe which are
:08:16. > :08:19.important and worth defending. I'm not sure I agree that they are
:08:20. > :08:24.pan-European. I think they tend to be clustered in Western Europe,
:08:25. > :08:29.maybe even to some extent more in northern Europe, but there are
:08:30. > :08:33.values worth defending. And I think Douglas has a point, that we have
:08:34. > :08:37.acted as though these values needed no defence, did not need assertion
:08:38. > :08:41.and repetition and reinforcement. And I think they do. Written,
:08:42. > :08:48.because it is in Ireland and because it is facing up to some of these
:08:49. > :08:52.problems stands a good chance. -- Britain, because it is an island and
:08:53. > :09:00.because it is facing up to some of these problems, stands a good
:09:01. > :09:07.chance. Lives. I don't see a Europe of defeat and decline. We talked
:09:08. > :09:12.earlier about Marine Le Pen being defeated in France, Geert Wilders in
:09:13. > :09:19.the Netherlands. The AFD is down to 7% in the polls in Germany. But
:09:20. > :09:22.without doubt, understanding people's concerns, particularly
:09:23. > :09:28.about very quick and large movements of different groups into Europe, is
:09:29. > :09:33.important. But when I look back in the history of my own city in
:09:34. > :09:37.Leicester, when 5000 Ugandan Asians arrived in the early 1970s there was
:09:38. > :09:41.huge fear and uncertainty and the campaign against them coming, but
:09:42. > :09:45.now we can't imagine our city without their hard work and
:09:46. > :09:52.entrepreneurialism. Why exactly arm I grants leading to the fall of
:09:53. > :09:59.Europe? The example that Liz gives is pertinent. That Ugandan Asian
:10:00. > :10:05.migration to Britain, we still talk about, like the Huguenots. But that
:10:06. > :10:11.migration is now replicated all the time. Since 1997, the same movement
:10:12. > :10:16.we had once of Ugandan Asians into Britain happens every six weeks to
:10:17. > :10:21.Britain. But why is it leading to the fall? We have made the
:10:22. > :10:26.presumption in Europe, particularly on the continent where it is more
:10:27. > :10:30.accentuated than here, that societies are places where you can
:10:31. > :10:36.bring in huge numbers of people all the time. 6000 is an average 24
:10:37. > :10:40.hours arrival in one Italian island these days and has been for recent
:10:41. > :10:46.years, 6000. My view is that when you bring in people at that speed on
:10:47. > :10:51.that scale, we make a fundamental mistake about our societies.
:10:52. > :10:54.Societies and cultures are fragile ecosystems, not things you can keep
:10:55. > :10:59.doing things to and expect the same thing to continue. Why does
:11:00. > :11:08.migration lead to the fall of Europe? It does not lead to the fall
:11:09. > :11:12.of the United States. There are several reasons for that. The United
:11:13. > :11:17.States was built on migration and has migration as an ideal, the ideal
:11:18. > :11:21.of it being a place you go to and become part of the American dream.
:11:22. > :11:27.If we wanted to do that, we should start soon, and we are not. You
:11:28. > :11:32.would not want to either. That is not true. My contention is that if
:11:33. > :11:35.we had had this movement of people and had a clear idea of what we
:11:36. > :11:39.expected when they arrived, it could be possible. But that is so far from
:11:40. > :11:44.the discussion we have had for decades. We have been so
:11:45. > :11:51.muddleheaded about it. We had a time when we thought all of the migrants
:11:52. > :11:55.would go home, would not stay. We thought the guest workers would do
:11:56. > :12:01.the job and then leave. That was a mistake. The fundamental thing was a
:12:02. > :12:05.mistaken idea. Then we have the idea that people would come, and that
:12:06. > :12:09.they would become exactly like us. Then we said, we don't want you to
:12:10. > :12:14.become like us, but celebrate your own culture. And at some point in
:12:15. > :12:19.the last ten years we decided, we do want you to become like us. These
:12:20. > :12:24.are totally different messages we have consistently given out. Fall of
:12:25. > :12:30.the issues that there are, it is remarkable how well we have coped as
:12:31. > :12:38.a country. And it always strikes me that people come here because they
:12:39. > :12:46.see us as a land of opportunity. And democracy. A city on a hill.
:12:47. > :12:51.Exactly. They value our freedoms, our democracy. I would not guarantee
:12:52. > :12:55.that in all cases, if I may say so. I would not guarantee that people
:12:56. > :12:59.move here because they want democracy. Using to have a bleaker
:13:00. > :13:06.view of what we are and can achieve than those who come here. My view is
:13:07. > :13:10.that when you go to the places of people who enter Europe, as I have
:13:11. > :13:14.done, you find people not just fleeing war. You find sub-Saharan 's
:13:15. > :13:19.and others coming for a better life. We would do the same. Europe is a
:13:20. > :13:23.tantalising prospect because of our wealth and opportunity. And we do
:13:24. > :13:29.not have an attitude about who should be here. We allow anyone who
:13:30. > :13:33.walks into Europe, or who goes a few miles of the Libyan coastline, to be
:13:34. > :13:37.picked up and brought into Europe. That seems to me to be an unwise
:13:38. > :13:46.policy because it is unsustainable in the long-term.
:13:47. > :13:52.I want to bring Michael back in. If Europe is in fall, surely the recent
:13:53. > :13:57.stagnation is more to do with economic policy than with migration.
:13:58. > :14:01.I think governments have allowed large numbers to come in without
:14:02. > :14:04.making an equivalent investment in public services, schools and health.
:14:05. > :14:11.And that has happened in this country. So people are very worried
:14:12. > :14:18.about what is occurring. I think it is true that if certain sorts of
:14:19. > :14:24.migrant arrive, who are hungry for work, entrepreneurial, it can drive
:14:25. > :14:30.your economy forward but you have to be careful to move at a pace that
:14:31. > :14:35.the population can accept. But the demography of Europe is a disaster
:14:36. > :14:40.for Europe. It is an ageing population, particularly in Germany
:14:41. > :14:46.and in Italy. And an influx of younger people is surely what an
:14:47. > :14:49.economy needs. I don't understand, the voters in Europe do not agree
:14:50. > :14:54.with you. The French did not agree and they have more reason than most
:14:55. > :14:57.to worry about migration because of the link with terrorism. They
:14:58. > :15:03.elected a pro-immigration President. The Germans are going to re-elect
:15:04. > :15:06.Angela Merkel, who allowed a million refugees to come in. People seem to
:15:07. > :15:17.be coping. The Austrian Freedom Party got 46%
:15:18. > :15:24.of the vote. Everyone said thank goodness we have seen off the far
:15:25. > :15:27.right party. Macron exclusively... Only second in the Netherlands. Only
:15:28. > :15:30.a third voted for Le Pen. If you want to consider how serious it is,
:15:31. > :15:34.look at the polling in France of what French people think about
:15:35. > :15:38.migration, in particular issues of integration and culture. Then you
:15:39. > :15:42.see, what is the thing put in front of them, this Le Pen family again.
:15:43. > :15:46.Of course French people don't want them. That's not the same as saying
:15:47. > :15:50.they want the migration. As for the issue of the ageing population. If
:15:51. > :15:54.it's the belief that people have in Europe, that instead of dealing with
:15:55. > :15:57.pension problems and an ageing population, if people think the best
:15:58. > :16:03.answer is to bring in the next generation of Germans from Eritrea,
:16:04. > :16:06.it should be stated as a policy, but it does not seem the most wise way
:16:07. > :16:11.to approach the ageing population or the immigration issue. There are
:16:12. > :16:16.immigrants coming in from many other areas than Eritrea. I gave it as an
:16:17. > :16:20.example. Douglas puts his finger on a point that, whatever you think of
:16:21. > :16:26.the policy, it's never been exposed to a vote in Europe, in any European
:16:27. > :16:29.country. What are the novelties about our recent referendum on the
:16:30. > :16:34.European Union, one of them was, people were able to determine the
:16:35. > :16:37.future direction of their country. But many of the most important
:16:38. > :16:40.changes have occurred without anybody giving their ascent. So
:16:41. > :16:44.maybe this is something on which you ought to have a referendum but I
:16:45. > :16:51.think... What would your question be? Do you wish to... How many
:16:52. > :16:57.Eritreans do you want. Can I give an example of one. The idea people
:16:58. > :17:00.haven't voted on this... You would set before people a range of options
:17:01. > :17:03.about what sort of country they wanted. This is what voters have
:17:04. > :17:08.said to me. They've said this is what our country looks like, when
:17:09. > :17:14.was the moment we voted for? . An example of... No, because I have to
:17:15. > :17:18.bring Liz in, then I'll let you have the final word. The idea that people
:17:19. > :17:22.haven't expressed their views on immigration is completely wrong. It
:17:23. > :17:26.was at the heart of the debate in the last general election and on the
:17:27. > :17:32.Brexit vote here. The same is true in what's just happened in France
:17:33. > :17:36.and Macron isn't ignoring the issue. He's recognised people's fears and
:17:37. > :17:40.concerns but he wants to offer real answers to those problems, not the
:17:41. > :17:43.fear and lies of Le Pen. So the idea it hasn't been debated I spend all
:17:44. > :17:50.my life debating it, I just don't buy it.
:17:51. > :17:54.A more general point. Whatever the politicians say, it seems to me in
:17:55. > :17:58.the 21st century, globalisation in some form is here to stay. Surely
:17:59. > :18:03.that just comes with the huge movement of people, that is now the
:18:04. > :18:06.world we live in? Well, if it is then I think that the European
:18:07. > :18:17.public ought to be prepared for that. They are not and they will not
:18:18. > :18:20.like it. Opinion across the continent consistently shows them
:18:21. > :18:26.wanting to slow it down. I don't disagree. Chatham House in London
:18:27. > :18:30.asked Ken countries in Europe whether they would agree with the
:18:31. > :18:34.statement that they don't want Muslims in Europe. Eight out of ten
:18:35. > :18:39.agreed with that, that included France and Germany. One of the only
:18:40. > :18:43.two countries where that wasn't the majority opinion was this one where
:18:44. > :18:48.only 47% agreed with that statement. The political class in Europe would
:18:49. > :18:55.be mad not to listen to what the public are trying to say. , what,
:18:56. > :19:01.exclude Muslims? No, you should listen to the public, that would not
:19:02. > :19:06.be my policy. You should try to move towards them. And provide leadership
:19:07. > :19:10.Move towards the public, don't just berate them.
:19:11. > :19:13.Now it's late, poster gazing with Tim Farron late.
:19:14. > :19:16.In fact, the Lib Dem leader is rapidly becoming a bit
:19:17. > :19:19.of a campaign casanova, from impromptu spats
:19:20. > :19:22.with voters in the streets, to talk of Maggie Thatcher posters
:19:23. > :19:28.But if like us, you'd rather not hear about Tim's lurid
:19:29. > :19:32.childhood fantasies, fear not, because waiting
:19:33. > :19:35.in the wings is comedy legend David Baddiel here to put honesty
:19:36. > :19:37.in our Spotlight So get on the frankbook, tell
:19:38. > :19:39.us our twitter truths, you better be snapsure,
:19:40. > :19:45.Now folks, France's new President has been in touch.
:19:46. > :19:48.He wants us to move all our operations across to Paris.
:19:49. > :19:51.He loves the idea of Leez, Michel and Andre heading over
:19:52. > :19:54.to the city of lights to start "Cette Semaine" and he's lured us
:19:55. > :19:56.with a promise of buttered croissants and Chateau Margot.
:19:57. > :20:01.To be honest, ever since Trump TV withdrew their offer at the behest
:20:02. > :20:04.of Russia Today we've been at a loose end.
:20:05. > :20:08.But now we're off to Gay Paree and Molly the Dog will be joining
:20:09. > :20:14.President Macron has promised she'll have her own private jet
:20:15. > :20:36.Here's Kevin Maguire with his Round up of the political week.
:20:37. > :20:52.The election campaigns are in full swing.
:20:53. > :20:55.The parties are out to woo, 46 million voters to be won,
:20:56. > :20:59.That Musky scent of progressive alliance is in the air.
:21:00. > :21:02.Put on some party tunes and get in the mood.
:21:03. > :21:09.Theresa May started the week promising to cap energy prices.
:21:10. > :21:18.The wholesale intervention in the energy market?
:21:19. > :21:21.Maggie#One would be turning in her grave.
:21:22. > :21:23.When Labour proposed a similar policy under Ed Miliband,
:21:24. > :21:30.Well, potato potato, Marxist, support working families,
:21:31. > :21:39.Sometimes people say to me that doing something like that doesn't
:21:40. > :21:47.sound very conservative, but actually my response
:21:48. > :21:50.Sometimes people say to me that doing something like that doesn't
:21:51. > :21:52.sound very conservative, but actually my response o
:21:53. > :21:55.to that is when it comes to looking at supporting working
:21:56. > :21:56.people, what matters is not an ideaology,
:21:57. > :21:59.what matters is what you believe to be doing is right.
:22:00. > :22:02.Maggie#Two indicated the Tory manifesto will now repeat
:22:03. > :22:04.the party's traditional failed pledge to reduce net migration
:22:05. > :22:12.The Tories and immigration, it gets me every time.
:22:13. > :22:24.As for anybody who wants to declare a just cause
:22:25. > :22:27.for impediment to the cap, like businesses worried about Brexit
:22:28. > :22:29.hurting their workforces, Home Secretary Amber Rudd was having
:22:30. > :22:34.I did fear that Pret A Manger came out and said it's absolutely
:22:35. > :22:37.essential for us to have European workers because if they don't,
:22:38. > :22:41.we are going to have to make more of an effort to recruit in the UK.
:22:42. > :23:07.A drop of the blue stuff to calm me down.
:23:08. > :23:11.One man who thinks he's securing his job is Jeremy Corbyn
:23:12. > :23:14.who to the dismay of the right of his party suggested
:23:15. > :23:20.he tried to stay on even if they lose the election.
:23:21. > :23:33.Corbyn launched his election campaign with a rally in Manchester
:23:34. > :23:36.and he said he had scores to settle and he was angry.
:23:37. > :23:39.When Labour wins, there will be a reckoning for those who thought
:23:40. > :23:41.they could get away with asset stripping our industry,
:23:42. > :23:44.crushing our economy through their greed,
:23:45. > :23:46.and ripping off workers and consumers.
:23:47. > :23:51.Those working hard to get on, they make them foot the bill.
:23:52. > :23:54.This makes me angry, and I know what makes the people
:23:55. > :24:00.While I'm waiting, let's finish that Labour manifesto.
:24:01. > :24:04.?10 living wage, school dinners, NHS, gas, trains,
:24:05. > :24:16.Corbyn is a conviction politician and this leaked
:24:17. > :24:20.manifesto is his wish list, but the truth is, Labour
:24:21. > :24:39.is fighting to save seats against the march of Theresa May.
:24:40. > :24:41.# She's going to have you at her beck
:24:42. > :24:45.The Lib Dems are fighting as a pro-Remain party,
:24:46. > :24:48.the party of the 48%, but there was no big surge
:24:49. > :24:55.Like Labour, the Lib Dems oppose austerity.
:24:56. > :24:57.Like Labour, the Lib Dems would spend more on education.
:24:58. > :25:00.Like Labour, the Lib Dems would put up taxes on the rich.
:25:01. > :25:02.So much in common, you would have thought
:25:03. > :25:09.Local pacts have broken out but for Tim Farron it is the love
:25:10. > :25:20.We've been very clear as a party and continue to be
:25:21. > :25:22.so that there will be no coalition, no pact, no deals.
:25:23. > :25:26.The British people need to know that voting Liberal Democrat is the way
:25:27. > :25:29.you express your desire for there to be a strong, clear, alternative
:25:30. > :25:55.The Greens aren't playing hard to get.
:25:56. > :26:13.You're going to wake up on June nine, a lot of people are going to
:26:14. > :26:16.be asking themselves, when will the left ever learn.
:26:17. > :26:19.We have a few more days when we can build on these
:26:20. > :26:22.alliances which it is not just the Green Party asking for them, but
:26:23. > :26:25.people up and down the country, begging parties of the left and
:26:26. > :26:29.centre left to get together to do grown-up politics.
:26:30. > :26:31.Meanwhile, Ukip, the Tory's bit of rough, is going to
:26:32. > :26:36.No luck in the locals, no MPs left, nothing to carry on for.
:26:37. > :26:46.Well, Paul Nuttall insisted it had a future.
:26:47. > :26:49.I think our manifesto, in many ways, will be a decade of its time.
:26:50. > :26:51.Because I guarantee the policies that we put forward now
:26:52. > :26:54.will no doubt end up being the policies of the mainstream
:26:55. > :26:55.political parties, or indeed government
:26:56. > :26:59.I'm never going to find love in the kitchen.
:27:00. > :27:04.I know what I'm going to do, I'm going to take the bins out.
:27:05. > :27:07.It's a proper boys job, catnip for the ladies.
:27:08. > :27:09.It's how the PM and Mrs PM keep romance alive.
:27:10. > :27:14.Yes, I get to decide when I take the bins out, not
:27:15. > :27:18.There's boy jobs and girl jobs, you see.
:27:19. > :27:20.I like buying nice shoes, so that gives me
:27:21. > :27:23.a reason for going and buying some more.
:27:24. > :27:26.Is there much space for you in the wardrobe at Number Ten?
:27:27. > :27:29.I sort of get a section, a little section
:27:30. > :27:34.Hang on, she keeps him in the wardrobe!
:27:35. > :28:03.And the Mirror's Kevin Maguire is with us now.
:28:04. > :28:10.Welcome, it's been a long day for you. Is this a manifesto that could
:28:11. > :28:15.win an election, Liz? I'm amazed that people have been surprised
:28:16. > :28:19.about what's been in the leak. This is the programme that Jeremy's
:28:20. > :28:24.campaigned on for decades, it was in his last two leadership election
:28:25. > :28:28.bids and we got four weeks to see what will happen on June 8th. Could
:28:29. > :28:32.it win an election? Well, we'll see. I know that, I'm asking for you
:28:33. > :28:38.view? Well, you know, I don't know. Anything's possible. What did I say
:28:39. > :28:44.about questions and answers that had no relation to the question?
:28:45. > :28:48.Michael? It's got lots of popular things in it but the election is not
:28:49. > :28:52.about the manifesto, but Jeremy Corbyn, at least in one respect.
:28:53. > :28:56.There's no chance the British people are going to elect Jeremy Corbyn as
:28:57. > :29:01.their Prime Minister. The thing that surprised me is that it's not what
:29:02. > :29:07.is in the manifesto, but the spending commitment is powered upon
:29:08. > :29:10.spending commitment. IFS, Financial Times, 60 billion a year in
:29:11. > :29:15.spending, financing various ways. But there's no sense of priorities
:29:16. > :29:19.within the draft? You would think we'd like to do all this but we
:29:20. > :29:23.might not be able to do it all but here are the four, five things that
:29:24. > :29:29.we definitely will do. That goes back to the pledge card of 1997
:29:30. > :29:33.which was very successful and, in a way, it was under-promise,
:29:34. > :29:37.over-deliver. Here you have a big list. I would hope if the cam Spain
:29:38. > :29:46.going to improve, it will come up. Narrow it down? And come up with the
:29:47. > :29:53.big priorities and selling points. You could even say how there was a
:29:54. > :29:57.coherent programme. A ComRes poll for the Mirror tomorrow shows yes
:29:58. > :30:02.people would like the policies but you keep coming up against the
:30:03. > :30:05.problem of Jeremy Corbyn whose own personal ratings are appalling and
:30:06. > :30:10.if people don't like the messenger, they'll not trust the message. They
:30:11. > :30:20.may like the policies, the individual policies, but in general
:30:21. > :30:25.if they see you as profligate, does it impact on borrowing? In 2015, we
:30:26. > :30:28.had a problem that people didn't Kist us on the economy or with their
:30:29. > :30:34.taxes and that remains an issue which is why it's going to be so
:30:35. > :30:38.important to have more detail about how the pledges are going to be
:30:39. > :30:44.funded when the manifesto comes out. I mean, I think Michael is right,
:30:45. > :30:50.that whilst we may obsess over the manifesto, manifestos on their own
:30:51. > :30:55.don't win or lose elections, it's about whether people think about the
:30:56. > :30:58.lead eship, whether they think you have a vision for the future on what
:30:59. > :31:01.you can be part of, whether they trust you with taxes and security.
:31:02. > :31:07.That's the challenge over the next four weeks. Why are you grinning
:31:08. > :31:11.like a herb cat? He's such a friendly man, that's why, Andrew.
:31:12. > :31:14.Liz is picking her way through her sentences like a soldier crossing a
:31:15. > :31:19.mine field with enormous care about every word. And some skill I would
:31:20. > :31:22.say. Absolutely. She's not been blown up yet. What about rail
:31:23. > :31:32.nationalisation? Good? The challenge is to get more
:31:33. > :31:37.investment into improved the stock. We are going to have to show how we
:31:38. > :31:42.can afford to get that back and put in the investment we need. My
:31:43. > :31:46.understanding is that the plan is to wait until each franchise comes up
:31:47. > :31:56.and put it back in. That will take until 2036. He will be 87 before he
:31:57. > :32:08.gets the last franchise. It was Labour policy in 2015 and is
:32:09. > :32:12.popular. What is the point of nationalising the National Grid? It
:32:13. > :32:16.is taking over the infrastructure, so you control the infrastructure,
:32:17. > :32:21.so everybody sells in and through you. Also, there has been massive
:32:22. > :32:26.underinvestment in the grid, and they feel, if you put the investment
:32:27. > :32:32.in publicly, you want to control it. They will have to spend a great deal
:32:33. > :32:37.to buy it and they will have to finance the investment. I wonder if
:32:38. > :32:43.you just buy a stake and begin to control it that way. That would be
:32:44. > :32:46.the sensible way forward. There is a danger with this manifesto that
:32:47. > :32:53.there is this huge rise in corporation tax, all sorts of detail
:32:54. > :32:58.state intervention, when banks close, you cannot bid for pop the
:32:59. > :33:05.queue and if the boss is getting more than 20 times more than the
:33:06. > :33:09.lower paid worker. But if a lot of companies, we have been told by the
:33:10. > :33:14.Remain campaign are thinking of leaving Britain, when they see is
:33:15. > :33:19.this, this could tilt them over. I think you are right to say we need a
:33:20. > :33:26.strong emphasis on what we are going to do to support businesses to grow
:33:27. > :33:29.and succeed in future. The stuff we have said on improving education and
:33:30. > :33:33.skills is vital but many businesses are worried about the future, what
:33:34. > :33:41.Brexit is going to bring, and they need a degree of stability. You are
:33:42. > :33:43.right to say, how do we get more investment in the infrastructure
:33:44. > :33:49.that businesses need to grow, and how do we get businesses to invest
:33:50. > :33:55.more. It has to be both sides. On Brexit, is Labour now saying that a
:33:56. > :34:01.bad deal is better than no Deal? Labour is still going for the deal.
:34:02. > :34:05.But if it doesn't get one, it won't contemplate not doing a deal? Mrs
:34:06. > :34:11.May has said that no deal is better than a bad deal, but Labour now
:34:12. > :34:18.seems the mirror image. I think she backed off from that because she
:34:19. > :34:22.realised that we might not have much of a car industry left, for a start.
:34:23. > :34:27.I think Kier Starmer is confident that if he had the job he would get
:34:28. > :34:32.a deal, some cooperation, some give and take, transitional period, they
:34:33. > :34:37.believe they can get it. And no deal would be a disaster. That is what
:34:38. > :34:41.most of the businesses in my patch are worried about. They can't wait
:34:42. > :34:46.for a deal. They have to plan ahead and getting no deal would be a
:34:47. > :34:51.disaster. I think most people want a deal, but the worst way to try and
:34:52. > :34:56.get one is to say you are desperate to have a deal. I don't agree.
:34:57. > :35:03.Everybody knows what happens in negotiation, but doing a threat of
:35:04. > :35:07.no deal... Not a threat, just saying you are strong enough to contemplate
:35:08. > :35:11.no deal. That way people will negotiate. They are going to
:35:12. > :35:22.negotiate. The idea that you have to say we would walk away to get them
:35:23. > :35:32.round the table... If you don't make it clear you are prepared to walk
:35:33. > :35:37.away, they will walk all over you. Britain is not Greece. As Tony Blair
:35:38. > :35:41.put it, it is rather like saying no deal, you walk away. In blazing
:35:42. > :35:47.saddles, when the sheriff puts the gun to his head and says, if you
:35:48. > :35:53.move, I will pull the trigger. It would be catastrophic not to have a
:35:54. > :35:57.deal. Is it clear that Jeremy Corbyn intends to stay on, even if he loses
:35:58. > :36:07.by as much as the polls would suggest. I don't think it is clear.
:36:08. > :36:11.Those around him want him to stay on. There are others like the Shadow
:36:12. > :36:15.Chancellor who talk about the left project, wants changes to the Labour
:36:16. > :36:21.constitution. To stand in future you would only need 5% of MPs, not 15.
:36:22. > :36:25.They wanting to stay on to see if he could do that. I am not sure he
:36:26. > :36:32.would want to. He nearly went last summer. If Labour suffer a pretty
:36:33. > :36:38.heavy defeat, the script is written, really. You are not looking to win
:36:39. > :36:44.seats, you are defending seats, there is no prospective... If he
:36:45. > :36:50.doesn't walk away after a disastrous defeat, what are the implications
:36:51. > :36:56.for Labour? If you look at what happened in the past, mostly both --
:36:57. > :37:01.most leaders if they have lost a referendum or an election, only Neil
:37:02. > :37:08.Kinnock lost an election and stayed. It was only fair that he should get
:37:09. > :37:12.a second chance. I think most MPs are utterly focused on getting to
:37:13. > :37:20.the polls shutting on the 8th of June at 10pm. Gaitskell lost and
:37:21. > :37:27.stayed and Clement Attlee lost and stayed but we are in a different
:37:28. > :37:31.time. If Jeremy Corbyn is serious about the left project, why would
:37:32. > :37:34.you leave in circumstances where Labour MPs have rigged the
:37:35. > :37:38.nomination so a left winger would not be nominated. Surely he would
:37:39. > :37:41.want to stay until the rules have been changed. The wake of defeat
:37:42. > :37:48.could be so heavy it would be crushing. Let's see. The Tory
:37:49. > :37:51.manifesto hasn't been leaked but that is probably because there are
:37:52. > :37:56.only three people involved in drafting it, including the Prime
:37:57. > :38:01.Minister. I am sure that a limited number helps. Do you think it will
:38:02. > :38:10.have vision and substance, or just stable and strong and strong and
:38:11. > :38:17.stable. Fox-hunting and grammars. You can hunt them at school? Is it a
:38:18. > :38:21.boys job or a girl 's job? I am being let off the hook. It will
:38:22. > :38:26.obviously have some things which will be controversial amongst
:38:27. > :38:29.Tories, like the intervention in the utilities. They probably don't care
:38:30. > :38:35.because they think they are going to win. They don't care, and there is a
:38:36. > :38:39.lot of fuzzy nostalgia about Margaret Thatcher. She was quite an
:38:40. > :38:44.interventionist. She did not control gas prices but had to be dragged
:38:45. > :38:48.towards each privatisation. You think the Tories can get away with
:38:49. > :38:54.fighting largely on leadership, not policy bastion Mark I said that two
:38:55. > :38:58.weeks ago and the last two weeks have born that out. Week by week,
:38:59. > :39:01.there are distractions offered by the Labour Party that make it
:39:02. > :39:06.unnecessary for the Conservative Party to say anything. The
:39:07. > :39:09.Conservatives are briefing that she is going to the north-east of
:39:10. > :39:13.England later today and they will make a big announcement of what it
:39:14. > :39:18.is. Whether it qualifies as a big announcement, we have to wait and
:39:19. > :39:21.see. Thank you. Get back to the dishes.
:39:22. > :39:25.It has been quite a week for home truths, from the excruciating detail
:39:26. > :39:29.of Theresa May's relationship with her red box in the bedroom, two team
:39:30. > :39:33.Corbyn revealing exactly how they feel about the BBC by running over
:39:34. > :39:36.one of our cameraman. An accident, of course. We are putting honesty in
:39:37. > :39:43.this week's spotlight. The Prime Minister is known
:39:44. > :39:52.for her equivication, especially when it comes
:39:53. > :39:56.to her Prime Ministerial ambitions. Would you ever consider
:39:57. > :39:58.running for the job? Look, David I hope is going
:39:59. > :40:01.to carry on until 2020. Her husband Philip appears
:40:02. > :40:15.to be more transparent. Well, I knew you were interested
:40:16. > :40:20.in politics but I never heard Theresa say she wanted to be
:40:21. > :40:23.Prime Minister until she was well Stephen Fry's comments
:40:24. > :40:35.about religion made him the subject of a blasphemy probe until the Irish
:40:36. > :40:38.police dropped the case on Tuesday. Why should I respect a capricious
:40:39. > :40:41.mean-minded stupid God who creates a world which is so full
:40:42. > :40:49.of injustice and pain? And can honesty get in the way
:40:50. > :40:52.of achieving your political goals? Donald Trump once had this
:40:53. > :40:54.to say about James Comey. It tooks guts for Director Comey
:40:55. > :40:58.to make the move he made in light Earlier this week,
:40:59. > :41:05.the President fired the FBI He wasn't doing a good
:41:06. > :41:10.job, very simply. Straight-talking comedian
:41:11. > :41:15.David Baddiel prides himself on his honesty, but is that
:41:16. > :41:45.easy if you are a politician? Was there a time when politicians
:41:46. > :41:50.were more honest? I don't know, because I am so tired. It took me so
:41:51. > :41:55.long to get on this show. I have come straight from my west End show.
:41:56. > :41:59.Two hours I have been on stage and you have asked me a difficult
:42:00. > :42:04.question. I do think that in the past there was less speaking in
:42:05. > :42:07.general. There were fewer interviews, no rolling news, no
:42:08. > :42:12.social media. Politicians and everyone has more opportunity to be
:42:13. > :42:15.caught lying, or to apparently not speak the truth, but the idea that
:42:16. > :42:20.all politicians are liars, I do believe that. But I do think
:42:21. > :42:32.politicians, and we have two over here, one of them and ex-politician,
:42:33. > :42:36.and I am tired so I forgot. They have to create a narrative. Some are
:42:37. > :42:43.better than others. Theresa May is very bad at it, she seems very
:42:44. > :42:47.uncomfortable being interviewed. Her husband, another politician, seemed
:42:48. > :42:51.totally fine about it. In trying to play that card of normal, here I am,
:42:52. > :42:55.a person who hangs out with my husband and has a chat, she was
:42:56. > :43:03.terrible at that. They sometimes find it difficult to be normal. But
:43:04. > :43:05.normal is a narrative, a persona. Sometimes politicians think they
:43:06. > :43:08.want to be honest and the public want them to be honest, but they
:43:09. > :43:13.worry that if they are honest, the public will not be so keen on them.
:43:14. > :43:20.I am doing a show at the moment and it is about my father's dementia and
:43:21. > :43:24.my late mother's infidelity. I don't see it as brutally honest, I am just
:43:25. > :43:30.interested in authenticity. Particularly Tommy you mentioned
:43:31. > :43:32.Trump, when there is so much fake news, no one is themselves and
:43:33. > :43:39.people are searching for an identity. I think people certainly
:43:40. > :43:45.do want and respond to authenticity. If you feel it, it is sometimes a
:43:46. > :43:48.feeling. People do like authenticity, which may be different
:43:49. > :43:56.from honesty. I think they are definitely linked. I interviewed
:43:57. > :44:01.Tony Blair in 1997 as part of a thing called the enormous election,
:44:02. > :44:07.a youth programme. I don't like to think about it! I noticed about Tony
:44:08. > :44:12.Blair at the time that he was very good at seeming authentic. That
:44:13. > :44:16.became degraded over time so that that person owner of, I am a normal,
:44:17. > :44:24.authentic guide, after a while you did not believe it. He was like a
:44:25. > :44:29.caricature of himself. The most extraordinary example of dishonesty
:44:30. > :44:32.was Stanley Baldwin who in 1935 refused to admit the country needed
:44:33. > :44:37.to rearm. When he was challenged a couple of years later he said, had I
:44:38. > :44:41.gone before the electorate in 1935 and with appalling frankness told
:44:42. > :44:45.them we needed to rearm, I would not have won the election. He actually
:44:46. > :44:51.said he could not have used appalling frankness. By then, he had
:44:52. > :44:56.won the election. What he did was he put the need to win the election for
:44:57. > :45:03.his party above his country. It was unforgivable. What is the state of
:45:04. > :45:07.honesty and authenticity today? There are two sides. One is about
:45:08. > :45:10.the politics and what needs to happen and I will refer again to
:45:11. > :45:16.Emmanuel Macron who said, if you are shy, you die. He told it as he
:45:17. > :45:20.thought it was and he won. And then there is honesty about yourself and
:45:21. > :45:23.who you are. That is harder to give of yourself and what you are like
:45:24. > :45:30.with your family and friends when you are not at work. I find that the
:45:31. > :45:35.hardest bit, partly because it is difficult, I think, to give that as
:45:36. > :45:39.a politician. But also because they have not asked to be in politics,
:45:40. > :45:46.have not asked to be on the media, so it is hard as an individual to
:45:47. > :45:50.show what you are like. Trump, who is incredibly like he probably is in
:45:51. > :45:57.real life, I don't Inc he has another setting except what he shows
:45:58. > :46:01.all the time. -- I don't think he is able to have another setting. But
:46:02. > :46:07.because his motivations are always so obvious and naked, even with that
:46:08. > :46:10.letter to director Comey, he mentions the investigation going on
:46:11. > :46:14.because he can't help himself. So the White House are trying to say it
:46:15. > :46:20.is about Hillary Clinton and Trump has given away that it is about the
:46:21. > :46:24.investigation. It is a weird kind of honesty. I don't think he is honest
:46:25. > :46:29.to himself. That is about self awareness, and he has no
:46:30. > :46:33.self-awareness. He is the least self-aware man in the history of the
:46:34. > :46:37.world but he has an inability to not give away what is going on inside
:46:38. > :46:40.him because he has no emotional intelligence so he is always telling
:46:41. > :46:45.you what is going on but he can't see it. It is becoming almost
:46:46. > :46:51.impossible to hold into account because of the ducking, diving and
:46:52. > :46:55.the changes it is impossible. That normal thing. Presumably Stanley
:46:56. > :46:59.Baldwin could be held to account, but Trump doesn't care about it. He
:47:00. > :47:04.can say one thing, say another thing and then say, I didn't say that.
:47:05. > :47:10.When he said that the Chinese were hoaxing climate change, he said, I
:47:11. > :47:16.didn't say it. He wrote it down! Your show is on in London. The
:47:17. > :47:22.Playhouse Theatre in London. It is on now. Every night. That is why I
:47:23. > :47:29.am so tired. I am glad you found time to see us. Go home to bed.
:47:30. > :47:32.Thank you. Come and tucked me in. I will!
:47:33. > :47:34.Now that's your lot for tonight folks but not for us,
:47:35. > :47:37.we're off to the Islington branch of LouLou's for Jezza Corbyn's
:47:38. > :47:39.falafel and humous victory party rehearsal, we've been promised
:47:40. > :47:43.Islington's finest cappuccinos, wall to wall quinoa, drum circles,
:47:44. > :47:49.multilingual renditions of kumbaya and plenty of red red wine.
:47:50. > :47:52.We leave you with a lesson in the art the longform
:47:53. > :47:54.political interview, courtesy of our pals
:47:55. > :48:01.Nighty night, don't let Mr and Mrs May bite.
:48:02. > :48:03.First impressions of your wife to be?
:48:04. > :48:15.Then we were looking at some footage, weren't we?
:48:16. > :48:18.And we found you, Philip, back in 1986.
:48:19. > :48:21.So how did you decide which one was going to stand for office
:48:22. > :48:25.and which one would kind of do, if you want, a sort of a normal job?
:48:26. > :48:34.I don't think it was quite as thought through as that, in a way.
:48:35. > :48:37.Obviously, if you are the kind of man who expects his tea to be
:48:38. > :48:40.on the table at six o'clock every evening, you could be
:48:41. > :48:47.Theresa's a very, very good cook indeed.
:48:48. > :48:49.And you have a large number of cookery books.
:48:50. > :48:53.I have a large number of cookery books, yes.
:48:54. > :48:56.Who has banned the red box from the bedroom?
:48:57. > :48:58.Identikit of a maiden appearance in the bedroom.
:48:59. > :49:01.I've never had to try and shoo it out.
:49:02. > :49:27.If you lie your whole life, you cannot escape.
:49:28. > :49:32.I know this is the right place. I've been waiting my whole life.
:49:33. > :49:36.She's looking for a man who knows nothing about her.