:00:27. > :00:29.There appears to be a fault with This Week.
:00:30. > :00:38.We're very sorry, but for much better political coverage,
:00:39. > :00:41.please tune in to Newsnight on BBC Two, or any Question
:00:42. > :00:52.Has normal broadcasting been restored?
:00:53. > :01:10.Are we talking about divided Britain?
:01:11. > :01:30.We're very sorry if you've just joined us, but This
:01:31. > :01:40.What is this, the British Vacuum Broadcasting Corporation?
:01:41. > :01:49.We're hoping normal service will be resumed shortly.
:01:50. > :02:14.Tomorrow is the first anniversary of the referendum on our membership
:02:15. > :02:21.Of course we voted to Remain, as most of us in the mainstream
:02:22. > :02:26.A few months later Hillary Clinton became the first female President
:02:27. > :02:35.As David Cameron reaches the mid-point of his second
:02:36. > :02:37.five-year term there's talk of who the next Tory
:02:38. > :02:41.I hear some of you touting the virtues of Theresa May.
:02:42. > :02:51.It's as likely as Jeremy Corbyn giving the Tories a run
:02:52. > :02:54.for their money in a general election and putting himself
:02:55. > :02:56.in pole position to be the next Prime Minister.
:02:57. > :02:59.And that's obviously loony-left fantasyland.
:03:00. > :03:01.Next thing you'll be telling me the Tories are making
:03:02. > :03:06.Yes it's been a quiet, uneventful, even dull 12 months.
:03:07. > :03:09.Which is probably why we've become so susceptible to scare
:03:10. > :03:16.I see some unscrupulous folk trying to stir up trouble by claiming we're
:03:17. > :03:17.re-cladding council blocks in flammable material.
:03:18. > :03:25.With all the building rules and regulations?
:03:26. > :03:27.You probably think these council blocks don't have
:03:28. > :03:34.Speaking of those whose judgement has been consistently wrong
:03:35. > :03:37.since they came into this world, I'm joined on the sofa tonight
:03:38. > :03:41.by two failed politicians who reinvented themselves as failed
:03:42. > :03:45.pundits and who wouldn't have two pennies to rub together if it wasn't
:03:46. > :03:49.for the misplaced generosity of BBC licence payers.
:03:50. > :03:53.I speak of course of Alan #sadmanontheleft Johnson and Michael
:03:54. > :04:09.Michael, your moment of the week. There's a lot of truth in what you
:04:10. > :04:12.have just said. I was pleased to see the Prime Minister do something
:04:13. > :04:17.well, the offer to EU citizens who have lived here five years to have a
:04:18. > :04:22.settled status. But the decisive moment of the week was any moment
:04:23. > :04:26.that Philip Hammond spoke and set out a very different vision of what
:04:27. > :04:30.Brexit is going to be from what I take to be the official position of
:04:31. > :04:32.the Government. So now we are talking about transitional
:04:33. > :04:36.arrangements lasting for a long period. I think we are seeing a
:04:37. > :04:41.transition from a hard disk and see the Brexit towards the softest. And
:04:42. > :04:47.I would think that change will be apparent before the winter. I will
:04:48. > :04:52.come back to that later in the programme and ask some questions.
:04:53. > :05:00.Your moment? Interview yesterday with Boris Johnson, not because of
:05:01. > :05:04.Boris messing it up, but the salience of the questioning, because
:05:05. > :05:09.Theresa May's speech on the doorstep of Number Ten was striking almost a
:05:10. > :05:13.year ago, and "Burning injustice" which has taken on a new meaning
:05:14. > :05:17.after Grenfell Tower, she said the burning injustice of someone who is
:05:18. > :05:21.poor dying on average nine years earlier than someone who is not. I
:05:22. > :05:24.have searched since then post thing she has done about that and the
:05:25. > :05:29.Queen 's speech was a star to do that. She could have said, I would
:05:30. > :05:32.chair a Cabinet subcommittee because health and equality covers
:05:33. > :05:36.seminarians, but nothing. So the assumption is that it was just
:05:37. > :05:38.rhetoric. I will come back to that, too.
:05:39. > :05:39.Westminster, Manchester, London Bridge, Finsbury
:05:40. > :05:42.These have been testing, tragic times for Britain.
:05:43. > :05:44.A time, you might think, for firm but fair political
:05:45. > :05:49.But instead the election has only added to the uncertainty and created
:05:50. > :05:51.new divisions and weakness from the top down.
:05:52. > :05:54.In a troubled and perhaps increasingly divided society
:05:55. > :05:56.we have a political system struggling to cope
:05:57. > :06:01.Here's businesswoman, wannabe politician and former
:06:02. > :06:14.Apprentice winner Michelle Dewberry with her take of the week.
:06:15. > :06:16.The political climate in Britain is worryingly heated.
:06:17. > :06:21.Divided we stand on issues like Brexit, the future
:06:22. > :06:29.of the union, and in terms of age, affluence, religion and ethnicity.
:06:30. > :06:31.My fear, particularly with terrorists, activists
:06:32. > :06:34.and political leaders seeking to exploit difference,
:06:35. > :06:42.Yesterday, we were promised a day of rage in London.
:06:43. > :06:45.It was organised to protest against the democratically elected
:06:46. > :06:49.government, but its scope widened because of the Grenfell tragedy.
:06:50. > :06:56.OK, so the rage didn't boil over this time,
:06:57. > :07:00.but the threat of hard left activists donning their balaclavas
:07:01. > :07:04.is not constructive, and neither is Labour's solutions
:07:05. > :07:09.It's true, Theresa May made mistakes in handling Grenfell,
:07:10. > :07:12.but a public lynching is not the answer.
:07:13. > :07:18.Unity in finding solutions, finding resources, and Unity
:07:19. > :07:24.But also unity in making sure this will never happen again.
:07:25. > :07:28.Most of us want the same things in life, regardless
:07:29. > :07:37.So why can't we get past poisonous party politics?
:07:38. > :07:39.I stood as an independent candidate in Hull and I had volunteers
:07:40. > :07:47.I received a shocking amount of abuse from Labour left supporters.
:07:48. > :07:49.I always regarded this country is a place respectful of alternate
:07:50. > :07:55.views, but now it feels bitter and divided.
:07:56. > :07:58.One of the problems is that so many people feel ignored
:07:59. > :08:03.and unrepresented by our system, but this didn't start with Brexit.
:08:04. > :08:09.In fact, I'd say that the referendum was in part a consequence of this.
:08:10. > :08:14.If we must stick with party politics, then we need
:08:15. > :08:18.Left to me, I'd do away with the entire party and political
:08:19. > :08:34.system and have a parliament filled with independents.
:08:35. > :08:37.Our thanks to Flat Iron Square in Borough London.
:08:38. > :08:51.Allen, are we really that divided? In the face of multiple terrorist
:08:52. > :08:57.attacks in quick succession, you could argue that our resolve and
:08:58. > :09:01.unity has been remarkable. I was thinking that when Michelle talked
:09:02. > :09:06.about the reaction to Grenfell. That day over age, they are entitled to
:09:07. > :09:09.do their marching. But of course, the families and the church which
:09:10. > :09:14.was doing a lot of the work, they didn't want anything to do with
:09:15. > :09:17.that. I think in general, whilst I agree with the conclusion at the end
:09:18. > :09:22.because I have always been in favour of PR, I do not agree with
:09:23. > :09:27.independent candidates making things better. You had a good run in my old
:09:28. > :09:30.constituency where you come from. There have always been independent
:09:31. > :09:34.candidates standing but the problem is that the public do not know what
:09:35. > :09:39.they are going to do. You do not get a manifesto, you do not get the
:09:40. > :09:42.opportunity to shape what you want and actually make the MP accountable
:09:43. > :09:46.for their party position. I think you would find it very difficult to
:09:47. > :09:53.have a house full of independent candidates. How divided are we,
:09:54. > :09:56.given our reaction to the terrorist attacks, which seemed to bring the
:09:57. > :10:04.country together? Look at the imam in Finsbury Park, in saving big eye
:10:05. > :10:09.who had just tried to mow them down, and the surrounding community
:10:10. > :10:12.response at Grenfell Tower, everybody coming together, that is
:10:13. > :10:17.the best of British. That is wonderful. When I see those
:10:18. > :10:19.individual responses I think it is excellent but that is not
:10:20. > :10:26.representative of what is going on. They are individual things. We are
:10:27. > :10:30.divided, we are abusive, we are conflicted, and I do believe that
:10:31. > :10:36.party politics plays a part in that. I feel that too many people... If
:10:37. > :10:40.you think of the main political parties, we are playing top Trumps.
:10:41. > :10:46.What happens in an election is that parties say, I will give you ?1 if
:10:47. > :10:52.you vote for me. She has promised ?1. I will give you ?2. ?2 plus an
:10:53. > :10:57.ice cream. We are getting out of control. People feel unrepresented,
:10:58. > :11:03.politically homeless and it is time for change. Maybe leadership is the
:11:04. > :11:07.problem, Michael. Mrs May talks a lot about burning injustice but she
:11:08. > :11:11.does not do anything about it, nothing in the Queen's speech. Mr
:11:12. > :11:16.Corbyn, certainly a lot of the people around him, including John
:11:17. > :11:19.McDonnell, they seem more interested in dividing than uniting. Maybe
:11:20. > :11:26.there is a leadership problem. Yes, I think there is. Mrs May was doing
:11:27. > :11:30.very well when she appeared on the steps of Downing Street and talked
:11:31. > :11:33.about burning social injustices and wanting to do something about them.
:11:34. > :11:37.One of the reasons I think she did well was that people thought, she is
:11:38. > :11:41.not just another Tory, this is a new language. They thought it about
:11:42. > :11:46.David Cameron when he introduced same-sex marriage, this is not just
:11:47. > :11:50.another Tory. In summary, what happened during the general election
:11:51. > :11:52.was that, as none of that rhetoric was followed through, and as the
:11:53. > :11:59.election drifted onto grammar schools and fox-hunting, and as many
:12:00. > :12:04.of her interviews were rather vacuous and defensive, people
:12:05. > :12:07.suddenly thought, she is just another Tory. And I think that is
:12:08. > :12:12.the great challenge for the Conservative Party. How to find
:12:13. > :12:19.someone to lead it who will not look like just another Tory. We can all
:12:20. > :12:25.agree that her actions will never come near the rhetoric. That is
:12:26. > :12:28.pretty clear. But if you take Mr Corbyn or John McDonnell, why
:12:29. > :12:33.encourage people to take to the streets when the police are already
:12:34. > :12:38.stretched to the limit? To be fair to John McDonnell, he made the
:12:39. > :12:44.announcement before Grenfell Tower. I'm not sure he has pulled it back,
:12:45. > :12:47.though. But he made it before Grenfell Tower, so it was not
:12:48. > :12:52.linked. There is division in society and Grenfell Tower showed it. There
:12:53. > :12:56.are some obscene statistics. Michael Wilner because it is his
:12:57. > :12:59.constituency, and I was born in North Kensington, you can get the
:13:00. > :13:03.statistics between North and south Kensington and there is a huge gap
:13:04. > :13:08.in mortality rates, and there is a real issue to be tackled there. But
:13:09. > :13:13.Mrs May's rhetoric, if you remember when she announced the election, she
:13:14. > :13:16.said, the country is united but Westminster is divided. That was
:13:17. > :13:21.their reason for having a general election. Of course the country
:13:22. > :13:26.wasn't United. I don't think it's about the reaction to terrorism. I
:13:27. > :13:29.think it was about Europe. It was about David Cameron's adventure of
:13:30. > :13:33.having a referendum on Europe when we didn't need to, and another
:13:34. > :13:39.gamble of Theresa May going to the country when she didn't need to. But
:13:40. > :13:44.the referendum only happened as a consequence of people feeling
:13:45. > :13:49.completely unrepresented and not listened to. That might be the
:13:50. > :13:54.result, but not having the referendum. You think it was the
:13:55. > :13:59.cause? I feel too many people for too long are not represented in
:14:00. > :14:02.Parliament. And I feel that the Brexit referendum was one of the
:14:03. > :14:13.consequences of that. I always use the term "Politically homeless",
:14:14. > :14:19."Political top Trumps". What does that mean? Parties promise. Parties
:14:20. > :14:23.number one will promise ?1, party number two will promise to pounce.
:14:24. > :14:30.But there is no democracy in the world without political parties.
:14:31. > :14:33.Maybe there should be. People have tried, the Americans tried. George
:14:34. > :14:37.Washington did not want political parties when he became the first
:14:38. > :14:41.President and within eight years, America had political parties. They
:14:42. > :14:46.reflect the divisions, aspirations of society. But why is it OK for
:14:47. > :14:51.political parties to promise us the world? What happens is that they sit
:14:52. > :14:54.down and work out, how can I win an election, who do I want to appeal
:14:55. > :15:01.to? I want to appeal to the elderly, here are my promises for you... That
:15:02. > :15:04.is how political parties operate. Please let me finish my point
:15:05. > :15:08.because the reality is that you make these promises and it is top Trumps,
:15:09. > :15:12.trying to outdo each other, and then you let people down. So you get into
:15:13. > :15:18.power, and you cannot follow through with what you have offered people.
:15:19. > :15:21.On this election, more people return to the two main parties. If you were
:15:22. > :15:27.right, people would be looking for independent candidates. Theresa May
:15:28. > :15:32.said for a lot of people did not want to hear. Labour can't deliver
:15:33. > :15:36.what they promised. You know they can't. The Conservative Party
:15:37. > :15:40.actually did come out with a manifesto that took on some
:15:41. > :15:46.difficult issues. And then ran away from it.
:15:47. > :15:50.Michael, you wanted to make a point. There is a problem with democracy
:15:51. > :15:54.everywhere which is that the parties are thrown into competition with
:15:55. > :15:59.each other to over-promise and the result of all that is not only that
:16:00. > :16:05.people are disappointed but it can only be done by sit financing so
:16:06. > :16:11.that debts accumulate and are passed down to future generations. It's the
:16:12. > :16:15.single greatest flaw with democracy. I do become slightly impatient with
:16:16. > :16:21.the idea that people feel unrepresented. I mean, they've had
:16:22. > :16:24.many occasions to vote recently and they've made enormously important
:16:25. > :16:27.decisions, you know, that Scotland shouldn't become independent, they
:16:28. > :16:30.shouldn't change the voting system. Now that we should have a hung
:16:31. > :16:37.Parliament. I mean, you know, there is no reason why people should feel
:16:38. > :16:40.unrepresentative. They have made important decisions. People feel
:16:41. > :16:48.there is a sense of incompetence as well. We are a country, we are awash
:16:49. > :16:52.with safety regulations yet we couldn't forbid combustible cladding
:16:53. > :16:56.on buildings, or insist on fire sprinklers in blocks. I mean it's
:16:57. > :17:02.not that difficult to do any of that, and Mrs May admitted that
:17:03. > :17:07.there was an inadequate response to Grenfell Tower. This happened in the
:17:08. > :17:11.heart of the richest, sophisticated, biggest, best resourced City in
:17:12. > :17:16.Europe. Why was the response inadequate? I think people are angry
:17:17. > :17:20.at this? Yes, but hold on, so what happened in Grenfell was a tragedy,
:17:21. > :17:24.it was awful, everybody would agree with that. What I'm disgusted by is
:17:25. > :17:28.the political point-scoring, so all of a sudden it's become Theresa
:17:29. > :17:33.May's fault or it's become this person's fault, that person's fault.
:17:34. > :17:38.What's happened in Grenfell is an absolute systemic and long-term
:17:39. > :17:40.failing from various different Governments, councils, bodies,
:17:41. > :17:46.regulatory figures. This should never have happened. It's not a
:17:47. > :17:50.single party's fault. And what's happening though Andrew is that
:17:51. > :17:56.people are jumping on it and using it to create divide. It's absolutely
:17:57. > :18:00.wrong. And what I would hope is that we have unity in going forward to
:18:01. > :18:04.never again let this happen ever. This is not the first tower block
:18:05. > :18:09.that's burnt. Lessons should have been learnt a very long time ago and
:18:10. > :18:10.they were not. OK. We shall see if the lessons are learnt this time.
:18:11. > :18:12.Thank you. Now, it's late, death metal
:18:13. > :18:14.serenades with Ed Miliband late. Which means we're not the only
:18:15. > :18:18.broadcasting niche that antiquated political relics can turn
:18:19. > :18:23.to when their careers But if Red Ed's venture into not-so
:18:24. > :18:27.popular music leaves you desperately reaching for your Blue Nun,
:18:28. > :18:29.fear not, because waiting in the wings is columnist
:18:30. > :18:32.Melanie Phillips here to but the Anglosphere
:18:33. > :18:35.in our Spotlight. So be a proper FaceBrit,
:18:36. > :18:38.Snapchant the national anthem and tweet all the internets you can,
:18:39. > :18:41.after all, we invented them. Now, like all of you, I'm sure,
:18:42. > :18:44.we were really looking forward Michael couldn't wait
:18:45. > :18:49.for Theresa May's greatest hits being wheeled out for the state
:18:50. > :18:51.opening of Parliament. Grammar schools, the Energy cap, Fox
:18:52. > :18:53.hunting, scrapping the triple lock, social care reform and,
:18:54. > :18:56.of course, welcoming Alan even volunteered to hold
:18:57. > :19:03.the Donald's hand if he were to ever Unable to command a majority
:19:04. > :19:14.and secure a deal with the DUP, Theresa May was reduced
:19:15. > :19:16.to announcing a rather Here's Richard Madeley with his
:19:17. > :19:28.Round up of the political week. The week began with yet another
:19:29. > :19:30.appalling terror attack, this time A van drove into a group of Muslims
:19:31. > :19:37.congregated close to a mosque in Finsbury Park North London,
:19:38. > :19:40.left one man dead, two The Prime Minister heavily
:19:41. > :19:46.criticised a few days earlier, for failing to go and meet
:19:47. > :19:48.with the victims and survivors of the Grenfell Tower
:19:49. > :19:50.disaster, wasted no time. There is no place for this hatred
:19:51. > :19:57.in our country today and we need to work together as one society,
:19:58. > :20:01.as one community, to drive it out, this evil that is
:20:02. > :20:05.affecting so many families. The local MP, and of course
:20:06. > :20:09.Labour Leader, Jeremy Corbyn, An attack on a mosque,
:20:10. > :20:12.synagogue, church, is actually We have to protect each other's
:20:13. > :20:18.faith, each other's way of life. That's what makes us a strong
:20:19. > :20:22.society and community. The main event of the political week
:20:23. > :20:25.was the Queen's speech. I was already in my best bib
:20:26. > :20:28.and tucker and even dusted Apparently, Alan's been using this
:20:29. > :20:33.to store twiglets in. Smells a bit yeasty
:20:34. > :20:35.but hey good as knew... Then the Queen said she wanted
:20:36. > :20:39.a dress down speech. Nobody does scruffy
:20:40. > :20:58.quite like This Week. Some nights the studio looks
:20:59. > :21:01.like laundry day at Momentum HQ. # I'm gonna box some tags, only got
:21:02. > :21:12.twenty dollars in my pocket. Facebook apps, not sure they're
:21:13. > :21:15.really me, Ivanka, not sure at all. Brexit negotiations began this week
:21:16. > :21:23.and David Davis headed off I don't know, I think this actually
:21:24. > :21:31.works, what do you think? Come on, Ivanka, you Metropolitan
:21:32. > :21:36.milk toast, where's your optimism? There's no doubt that the road ahead
:21:37. > :21:39.will at times be challenging, but, as Winston Churchill once said,
:21:40. > :21:41.the pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,
:21:42. > :21:43.the optimist sees opportunity And so, bridging between Churchill
:21:44. > :21:49.and Monet, I'm certainly Nobody doubts that the Brexit
:21:50. > :21:53.secretary's a trier, but it's going to take a lot more
:21:54. > :21:56.than bluff Bonomy to win over Of course he lost an early battle
:21:57. > :22:01.on the timeline for negotiations, so many questions on trade
:22:02. > :22:05.that the UK wants to settle But hey, chin up David,
:22:06. > :22:09.at least the EU isn't That is why we will work
:22:10. > :22:32.all the time with the UK There will be no
:22:33. > :22:41.austerity on my side. I will display
:22:42. > :22:45.a constructive attitude. Well, Philip Hammond has had
:22:46. > :22:48.a post-election make-over. He used his Mansion House speech
:22:49. > :22:55.to argue that Britain should wait for a new trade deal to be agreed
:22:56. > :22:58.before ripping up the old one, Still, you don't stand out
:22:59. > :23:05.unless you are prepared to break We'll almost certainly need
:23:06. > :23:10.an implementation period outside the customs union itself,
:23:11. > :23:17.but with current customs border arrangements remaining in place
:23:18. > :23:19.until new long-term arrangements The collective sigh
:23:20. > :23:26.of relief would be audible. While David Davis was grappling
:23:27. > :23:29.with the EU, Theresa May was talking to the DUP to try
:23:30. > :23:32.and secure her Commons majority. But do you know what, the unionists
:23:33. > :23:35.don't seem to like her style. The DUP reportedly feel
:23:36. > :23:42.taken for granted. What could make it up
:23:43. > :23:46.to the sensitive souls? Two billion in health
:23:47. > :23:48.and infrastructure spending? There's no individual
:23:49. > :23:52.sticking point. All negotiations of this kind
:23:53. > :23:58.can take a long time. With no Commons majority,
:23:59. > :24:06.the Queen's speech was paired right Meanwhile, the Queen kept her crown
:24:07. > :24:13.in her hand bag and instead she wore rather fetching little hat
:24:14. > :24:15.in blue and yellow. My Government's priority
:24:16. > :24:24.is to secure the best possible deal as the country leaves
:24:25. > :24:29.the European Union. Completely missing from the speech
:24:30. > :24:33.was any mention of those manifesto pledges like scrapping the triple
:24:34. > :24:37.lock on pensions or ending winter fuel allowances for pensioners
:24:38. > :24:41.or even free school lunches Oh, and of course no mention
:24:42. > :24:48.of a state visit to the UK Travel ban for the Donald,
:24:49. > :24:55.you limey losers. Theresa May is now looking
:24:56. > :24:58.seriously out of fashion. The test for all of us
:24:59. > :25:02.is whether we choose to reflect divisions or help
:25:03. > :25:06.the country overcome them. With humility and resolve,
:25:07. > :25:09.this Government will We will do what is in the national
:25:10. > :25:13.interest and we will work with anyone in any party
:25:14. > :25:18.that is prepared to do the same. Jeremy Corbyn, no stranger
:25:19. > :25:20.to dressing down himself, was in seriously bullish form
:25:21. > :25:25.but he didn't bow to Her Majesty. Labour later put that down
:25:26. > :25:29.to a matter of protocol, He made it very plain that Labour
:25:30. > :25:38.would oppose the Government whenever Well, I suppose if you've got it,
:25:39. > :25:45.flaunt it, even if IT is a better We will use every opportunity
:25:46. > :25:50.to vote down Government policies that have failed
:25:51. > :25:55.to win public support. We will use every opportunity to win
:25:56. > :25:58.support for our programme. Labour is not merely
:25:59. > :26:03.an opposition, Mr Speaker. Outside the Commons,
:26:04. > :26:10.a day of rage was under way, a fierce protest against the hated
:26:11. > :26:15.May Government and austerity. But actually, as it started
:26:16. > :26:17.after lunch, technically it was more Senior Labour figures
:26:18. > :26:24.backed the protest, That's Gandhi on a really,
:26:25. > :26:35.really bad hair day. People may call a day
:26:36. > :26:37.of rage or whatever. They've got the right
:26:38. > :26:40.if they want to be angry but they haven't got the right
:26:41. > :26:42.to be violent. All protests have
:26:43. > :26:44.got to be peaceful. If you want to see what an effective
:26:45. > :26:47.protest is all about, As if slumming it with all those
:26:48. > :26:51.scabby MPs wasn't enough, we've got a lot of crusty
:26:52. > :26:53.protestors hanging around. God it's starting to
:26:54. > :26:55.feel like Glastonbury. Liz, put the champagne on ice
:26:56. > :27:15.and a tenner on the fave. And thanks to Beyond
:27:16. > :27:27.Retro in East London. Let's start with something
:27:28. > :27:31.counterintuitive. Let's agree for the sake of discussion that Mrs May
:27:32. > :27:34.is useless at their election campaigns, but she is still Prime
:27:35. > :27:41.Minister. Is it not still possible that over the next year she could
:27:42. > :27:45.actually recover? I wouldn't have thought the Conservative Party would
:27:46. > :27:49.want her to fight another election. I didn't say that, but over the next
:27:50. > :27:57.year she could recover some of the ground she's lost? I think what
:27:58. > :28:00.we've seen in the last week is the Chancellor of the Exchequer
:28:01. > :28:05.changing, pretty fundamentally, the terms of the renegotiation. You say
:28:06. > :28:08.that, but he is in favour of leaving the single market, he knows we have
:28:09. > :28:14.to get out of the customs union, he knows we have to end free movement.
:28:15. > :28:17.He is talking about a longer transition period. I don't think
:28:18. > :28:22.that is where we are going to end up. If you look at the Labour and
:28:23. > :28:28.Tory manifesto is, they broadly say the same thing on Brexit. Why would
:28:29. > :28:33.it change at the edges? Why would you argue it has changed so
:28:34. > :28:38.fundamentally? I don't think you would get hard Brexit through the
:28:39. > :28:42.House of Lords. But I interviewed the Labour Leader of the House of
:28:43. > :28:49.Lords yesterday on the Daily Politics. She said they were not
:28:50. > :28:54.looking for a fight over Brexit. Well, I think the election has
:28:55. > :29:00.completely changed the Brexit terms. I think a different sort of Brexit
:29:01. > :29:03.is going to come about. I think the Chancellor of the Exchequer will
:29:04. > :29:09.lead in that direction and I would not be surprised if David Davis
:29:10. > :29:15.moved his position, too. The Tory Remainer rebels, such as they are,
:29:16. > :29:19.-- are out numbered by the Labour Leave rebels. There is still a
:29:20. > :29:25.substantial majority in the Commons for the large part of the overlap on
:29:26. > :29:31.Brexit that was in the Labour and Conservative manifestos. I would not
:29:32. > :29:33.trust the Labour manifesto at all, and you can see that you cannot
:29:34. > :29:41.trust the Conservative manifesto either. You have seen how much has
:29:42. > :29:45.been ditched. Not Brexit. Not yet Brexit, or the form of Brexit. I
:29:46. > :29:50.don't believe the Labour Party manifesto represents... We can ask
:29:51. > :29:55.Alan, but I don't believe it represents the majority position of
:29:56. > :30:00.Labour member of -- members of Parliament. We know that too
:30:01. > :30:05.mystical bin and John McDonnell, that part of Labour, they don't care
:30:06. > :30:10.much about Brexit. It is austerity, inequality that gets them up in the
:30:11. > :30:14.morning. This Labour leadership is not looking for a fight over Brexit.
:30:15. > :30:18.It wants a fight over plenty of other things but not this. But they
:30:19. > :30:23.got it at salute the right on Article 50, spot-on, that you do not
:30:24. > :30:26.overturn that referendum decision but you recognise that the real
:30:27. > :30:33.issues will come further down the track. -- they got it absolutely
:30:34. > :30:37.right. Just look at what Keir Starmer has been saying. Michael is
:30:38. > :30:42.right, the whole tone has changed, the whole rhetoric, the kind of
:30:43. > :30:46."Difficult woman" stuff has gone. Boris Johnson, it is OK to fall out
:30:47. > :30:51.on WTO terms, that has gone completely. But there is a consensus
:30:52. > :30:56.between the frontbenchers on no longer being a member of the single
:30:57. > :31:01.market. It is the transition that is the big difference. You can have a
:31:02. > :31:05.longer transition period. There is a consensus that we have to leave the
:31:06. > :31:08.customs union, that free movement has to end. The frontbenchers are
:31:09. > :31:16.not arguing about these things, so where does the substance... The
:31:17. > :31:20.process may change, the language may change, the transition period might
:31:21. > :31:23.change, we saw Mr Hammond talking about a transition period, but the
:31:24. > :31:29.destination does not seem that different. Maybe not, but we are in
:31:30. > :31:33.a weaker position now. The other 27 member states have not collapsed, as
:31:34. > :31:41.the leaders suggested. They are more united. The Italian growth rate is
:31:42. > :31:47.twice ours, Germany's is four times. The Italian economy is smaller than
:31:48. > :31:51.in 1990. The Italian economy has not grown for almost two decades. It has
:31:52. > :31:57.to start growing some time. The European economy has not fallen
:31:58. > :32:02.apart. Who, other than Nigel Farage, said the European Union would fall
:32:03. > :32:09.apart? I call goes, Boris Johnson. We could show the rest of Europe, we
:32:10. > :32:12.can lead the fight. But not that it would fall apart. I think we are
:32:13. > :32:17.moving off the point and it is an interesting point. You are taking
:32:18. > :32:21.very literally the fact that the Conservative Party's official
:32:22. > :32:24.position has not changed, you are taking literally what was said by
:32:25. > :32:29.the Labour Party leadership Ynys Mon festival about Brexit. I am just
:32:30. > :32:36.asking tough questions to break this consensus between you. Otherwise we
:32:37. > :32:39.become a 1-party state. We cannot fault you on that but from our
:32:40. > :32:43.wholly different positions on Brexit, fundamentally different, we
:32:44. > :32:47.both have a feeling we will end up in a completely different place from
:32:48. > :32:52.what we imagined before the general election. You said that last week as
:32:53. > :32:56.well and I am probing the reasons for that. You may be right but I
:32:57. > :33:01.have not heard any convincing reasons to suggest that yet. It is
:33:02. > :33:06.early days. We don't know how this is going to go, and the Labour front
:33:07. > :33:10.bench will be crucial. If it sticks to its manifesto, I do not see your
:33:11. > :33:16.problems. If it wants to cause problems, I think it could. It is
:33:17. > :33:19.not just the Labour front bench, is it? Labour and Tory MPs have strong
:33:20. > :33:23.feelings, quite apart from the front bench tells them. And even the
:33:24. > :33:31.frontbenchers heavily divided on both sides. Are you worried that it
:33:32. > :33:37.is the hard left that now runs your party? I am very worried that the
:33:38. > :33:41.sectarian left, as I would call them, are running the party. But I
:33:42. > :33:45.do not want to rain on Labour's parade. There is a mess out there.
:33:46. > :33:48.The more you look at what is happening, a year after the
:33:49. > :33:52.referendum we have only just got going on the debate. Last time I was
:33:53. > :33:55.on we were talking about a three-month delay because of the
:33:56. > :33:59.election. You were saying it would not matter because nothing much
:34:00. > :34:03.would have happened. But it looks bad, it looks weak, the country
:34:04. > :34:06.looks like a laughing stock, with a Prime Minister destined to go and
:34:07. > :34:11.Boris Johnson popping up every five minutes on the media. We know what
:34:12. > :34:17.that is about. I think we have done Boris. It is like shooting trout in
:34:18. > :34:21.a barrel. But it feels humiliated that we are in this situation. So I
:34:22. > :34:28.would have a Labour government any time. And really, the sense of what
:34:29. > :34:32.happened in that election and the momentum, to use the term, towards
:34:33. > :34:37.the end, means that they need to get back to the country as soon as
:34:38. > :34:40.possible. That might fade away. Would you like to see these days of
:34:41. > :34:50.chaos, this uncertainty, instability being used to rerun the referendum
:34:51. > :34:55.for Remain to get the advantage again? Are you in the category of
:34:56. > :34:58.one of these Remainers that says, of course I accept the result of the
:34:59. > :35:04.referendum but I will now try to do everything I can to stop it from
:35:05. > :35:08.happening? No. But I do think we will spend time and treasure trying
:35:09. > :35:14.to get back to where we were in the first place, a good trade deal,
:35:15. > :35:18.absence of bureaucracy when crossing borders, the right of citizens to
:35:19. > :35:21.remain in this country. We are fighting and struggling to get back
:35:22. > :35:26.to where we were. At some stage over the next few years, longer than two
:35:27. > :35:30.years, people might come to the conclusion, let's think about this
:35:31. > :35:35.again. The will of the people might change but that is not something
:35:36. > :35:46.new. We have run out of time. When do you think the next election will
:35:47. > :35:50.be? In three years. Three years?! I think within 18 months. The truth
:35:51. > :35:58.is, it could be any time. We don't know, do we? We don't know. We don't
:35:59. > :36:02.know how the 12 Scottish Tories will go because there seems to be a
:36:03. > :36:04.streak of independence. There are 12 Scottish Tories? When did that
:36:05. > :36:14.happen? 13, unbelievable. Now, are you Glastonbury
:36:15. > :36:16.or are you Ascot? The three of us our obviously buzzin
:36:17. > :36:19.for that glasto hype, Alan can't possibly miss
:36:20. > :36:21.an opportunity for some comradely crowd surfing with Jezza Corbs
:36:22. > :36:24.and Michael wants to be front row for Stormzy, Boy Better Know, JME,
:36:25. > :36:26.Dizzee Rascal and Kurupt FM. His love of grime has
:36:27. > :36:28.reached new heights, especially since he was roped
:36:29. > :36:31.in as the new poster boy of Grime4Corbyn, With his shirts,
:36:32. > :36:34.he's sure to fit right in. As for me, I can't be sat at home
:36:35. > :36:37.with massive FOMO so I'll be seeing Major Lazer,
:36:38. > :36:39.Foo Fighters and Biffy Clyro, just as soon as one of our interns
:36:40. > :36:46.explains to me what those are. And what this has to do
:36:47. > :36:52.with putting the Anglosphere in the Spotlight I've got no idea,
:36:53. > :37:10.but we are. So what does a dressed
:37:11. > :37:12.down Queen's speech say Does disregarding pomp and ceremony
:37:13. > :37:25.mean we've lost our self-confidence. Or is Britain's
:37:26. > :37:34.greatness unshakeable? The Prime Minister reckons
:37:35. > :37:36.the country will overcome a month of tragedies
:37:37. > :37:40.and become even greater. We are a great nation
:37:41. > :37:43.and a great people. We have been through and survived
:37:44. > :37:46.the toughest of times Once again, we can
:37:47. > :37:49.and will grow stronger The Governor of the Bank
:37:50. > :38:06.of England appears concerned. Before long, we will all begin
:38:07. > :38:09.to find out the extent to which Brexit is a gentle stroll
:38:10. > :38:13.along a smooth path towards a land Meanwhile, on the other
:38:14. > :38:20.side of the Anglosphere, Donald Trump seems to be promoting
:38:21. > :38:29.American isolationism. After decades of rebuilding foreign
:38:30. > :38:31.nations, all over the world, Melanie Phillips thinks
:38:32. > :39:04.the Anglosphere has been Mr Trump in the White House, Mrs May
:39:05. > :39:08.probably just went through the biggest self-inflicted, unnecessary
:39:09. > :39:14.wound in modern British politics. So is the Anglosphere in decline under
:39:15. > :39:18.these two? I thought the Anglosphere was in decline for the last 30 years
:39:19. > :39:21.and I allowed myself a brief moment of optimism from last year's
:39:22. > :39:27.referendum until now, for these reasons. I think the Anglosphere has
:39:28. > :39:31.been in decline, Britain and America, the West, the English
:39:32. > :39:34.speaking world, because of a profound demoralisation, which I
:39:35. > :39:41.would date to the end of the Second World War. As a result of which
:39:42. > :39:45.Europe lost its belief in itself. It believed it had to be saved from
:39:46. > :39:50.itself. Britain ended up at the end of the war bankrupt, in hock to
:39:51. > :39:57.America, lost the Empire. Its elites word tomorrow lies, vulnerable to a
:39:58. > :40:01.slew of anti-Western ideologies which destroyed the education
:40:02. > :40:03.system, told us we had no national identity, we have to be
:40:04. > :40:09.multicultural and so on. A similar thing went on in America. The
:40:10. > :40:15.Anglosphere is the English speaking world led by Britain and America.
:40:16. > :40:19.Written is the originator of political liberty. But plenty of
:40:20. > :40:24.English speaking nations are not in decline. Australia, Canada, New
:40:25. > :40:28.Zealand. And since the Indian elite speak English, India certainly isn't
:40:29. > :40:34.in decline. Depends what you mean by decline. Britain is a major world
:40:35. > :40:37.economy, but what I'm in is that it does not have any confidence in
:40:38. > :40:42.itself any more, in its own identity. It does not understand or
:40:43. > :40:45.want to know what it historically believes in and supports, does not
:40:46. > :40:50.have the ability to defend itself any more. What I thought about
:40:51. > :40:54.Brexit and the election of Donald Trump, I think one has to put aside
:40:55. > :40:57.the man from what brought him to power. I have great reservations
:40:58. > :41:02.about Donald Trump, I think he has many psychological flaws, but what I
:41:03. > :41:05.think brought him to power is what I think brought Brexit to being as
:41:06. > :41:09.well, which was the belief by millions in Britain and America,
:41:10. > :41:14.they wanted their country back, wanted to become once again a
:41:15. > :41:19.self-governing western democratic nation. What does that have to do
:41:20. > :41:24.with the Anglosphere? You only want to be a self-governing nation if you
:41:25. > :41:26.believe in yourself. It is a benign circle. You have to become a
:41:27. > :41:32.self-governing nation to believe in yourself again. America had a
:41:33. > :41:36.different set of problems. America was internally guilty at its history
:41:37. > :41:40.of race as a man came to believe it was responsible for the ills of the
:41:41. > :41:45.world. Over many years it stopped being a force for good in the world.
:41:46. > :41:50.It has to recover that again. What do you make of this argument? I
:41:51. > :41:55.think Melanie is fundamentally right. There is something peculiar
:41:56. > :41:59.and particular about the knighted States and Britain and the way in
:42:00. > :42:03.which representative government has formed in those places. Magna Carta
:42:04. > :42:07.is thought to be our inspiration but it is even more the inspiration of
:42:08. > :42:11.the United States. There was a point at which they overtook us. But we
:42:12. > :42:15.have a particular view about representative democracy. In 1941
:42:16. > :42:22.there were 11 democracies in the world and there are now 105. They
:42:23. > :42:26.are all rather young, including ours and the United States. When the
:42:27. > :42:31.European Union began to embark on a project where democracy was a
:42:32. > :42:34.secondary consideration, where there was not accountability, institutions
:42:35. > :42:41.were not responsible to their populations, we entered a period of
:42:42. > :42:46.great danger. Too many monologues here. I disagree completely. The
:42:47. > :42:50.thing about the European Union, if it was a democracy it would be
:42:51. > :42:54.replicating a country. Its whole issue as to why you don't have the
:42:55. > :43:00.election of the Commissioners is because it doesn't pretend to be a
:43:01. > :43:05.country. Does the Anglosphere appeared to be in decline and does
:43:06. > :43:08.it matter? It seems to me the baby boomer generation has done very
:43:09. > :43:15.well. The problems started, reflected in the EU referendum and
:43:16. > :43:18.the Trump election from the crash onwards. People do not believe they
:43:19. > :43:22.are sharing the proceeds of growth. The economy that was a tool of
:43:23. > :43:28.society, it is now the other way around. Can be put back together?
:43:29. > :43:33.Definitely but we have to do Brexit properly and Trump as to survive his
:43:34. > :43:37.own inadequacies. Everything leads back to Brexit.
:43:38. > :43:49.Breakfast TV is on next... It is not but it sometimes seems like that.
:43:50. > :43:51.We're giving Lou Lou's a miss because we're hopping straight
:43:52. > :43:54.Michael is beside himself with excitement.
:43:55. > :43:55.But only because we're going by train.
:43:56. > :43:59.Alan has arranged extra luxurious glamping for us.
:44:00. > :44:03.He needs a nice place to sell signed copies of Volume 12 of his memoirs.
:44:04. > :44:06.Nighty night, don't let Sean Spicer bite.
:44:07. > :44:11.# Communication let me down, and I'm left here #.
:44:12. > :44:15.At this point I have not asked, and I'm not fully aware of...
:44:16. > :44:18.I mean, I'm aware of the testimony that occurred in the enquiries,
:44:19. > :44:27.I've not asked the President since the last time we spoke about this.
:44:28. > :44:29.I have not asked the President or his staff about that.
:44:30. > :44:38.No, I haven't asked him about that, but I'm not aware of anything.
:44:39. > :44:40.I have not had an opportunity to specifically talk
:44:41. > :44:44.I have not had an opportunity to have that discussion.
:44:45. > :44:46.I have not spoken to the President about this.
:44:47. > :44:48.Look, I think I haven't spoken to the President
:44:49. > :44:52.I don't know, I honestly haven't asked him that specific question.
:44:53. > :44:54.I have not have that discussion with him.
:44:55. > :44:56.Does he have confidence in his Attorney General?
:44:57. > :44:59.I have not had a discussion with him on the question.
:45:00. > :45:02.If I haven't had a discussion with him about a subject,
:45:03. > :45:21.# Communication let me down, and I'm left here
:45:22. > :45:25.FOO FIGHTERS: # Don't let it go to waste