:00:15. > :00:17.Tonight, live from the people's Republic of this week,
:00:18. > :00:24.North Korean leader Kim Jong Un test fires an intercontinental ballistic
:00:25. > :00:33.missile, his gift to the Yankees on their Independence Day.
:00:34. > :00:36.Tim Marshall assesses how terrifying the world is.
:00:37. > :00:41.Thanks to the efforts of the great helmsman,
:00:42. > :00:48.The Westminster masses march on Downing Street demanding
:00:49. > :00:51.Britain's beloved First Lady bring an end to austerity and pay our
:00:52. > :01:01.Five Live's Emma Barnett dusts off the This Week credit card.
:01:02. > :01:03.Yes, it's time to spend, spend, spend.
:01:04. > :01:08.That is, if our Great Leader is OK with it.
:01:09. > :01:11.And as This Week decides to ban all views and ideologies
:01:12. > :01:14.that do not conform, we turn to Slovenian philosopher
:01:15. > :01:33.I will talk about sensitivity with all the snowflakes and so on. The
:01:34. > :01:35.only strong person is our eternal leader, Andrew.
:01:36. > :01:39.You will watch This Week tonight, with me, your supreme leader,
:01:40. > :01:54.Andrew Neil, the greatest propaganda machine ever invented.
:01:55. > :01:56.Evening all, welcome to the People's Democratic Republic
:01:57. > :01:59.of This Week, the only BBC programme with its own
:02:00. > :02:05.And if Donald Trump doesn't come up with that multi-million dollar
:02:06. > :02:07.contract for Trump TV, we're going to send one
:02:08. > :02:13.Because in these troubled times our role is not to wage war -
:02:14. > :02:16.thoough I'm warning you, Trump - but to spread fake news,
:02:17. > :02:18.false comfort and fatuous propaganda, so that you can sleep
:02:19. > :02:24.It's why we have four billion daily viewers, even though we're
:02:25. > :02:28.only on once a week, and a 110% approval rating,
:02:29. > :02:30.since the slightest disapproval means the immediate cessation
:02:31. > :02:39.It's why we attract the world's greatest talent, such
:02:40. > :02:41.as old Choo Choo here, the man who made the
:02:42. > :02:45.And Alan Johnson, now on volume 42 of his memoirs,
:02:46. > :02:46.whose achievements are legendary, such as...
:02:47. > :02:55.It's why I'm your Dear Leader, loved, respected and obeyed by all.
:02:56. > :02:57.And it's why my influence is everywhere.
:02:58. > :03:01.Last year I was able to insert one of our number,
:03:02. > :03:03.the Hackney Madame Mao who goes by the codename Diane Abbott,
:03:04. > :03:06.into the heart of Team Corbyn, which is now entirely
:03:07. > :03:13.And only today I dispatched our most senior executive in charge of paper
:03:14. > :03:18.clips to head up the Ministry of Truth at one of my many
:03:19. > :03:22.satellites, which you will know as Ten Downing Street.
:03:23. > :03:26.And speaking of futile, I'm joined on the sofa tonight
:03:27. > :03:29.by two of the fathers, sorry grandfathers,
:03:30. > :03:34.I speak, of course, of Michael #sadmanonatrain Portillo and Alan
:03:35. > :03:51.Michael, your moment of the week? You made and a bleak reference. A
:03:52. > :03:54.week ago we had an executive producer who is now the Director of
:03:55. > :04:00.Communications at ten in Downing Street for Mrs May. It is said that
:04:01. > :04:05.rats leave a sinking ship. He is as far from a rat as could be, but one
:04:06. > :04:12.has to ask what sort of creature joins a sinking ship? I thought you
:04:13. > :04:18.were talking about us as a sinking ship. I think the answer could be a
:04:19. > :04:22.sacrificial lamb. That's a mixed metaphor. No, it's a consistent
:04:23. > :04:29.metaphor. You wouldn't recognise it, you were too busy interrupting, as
:04:30. > :04:36.usual. What creature leaves a sinking ship, a rat? Which creature
:04:37. > :04:41.joins one, a sacrificial lamb. Consistent. The focus have been on
:04:42. > :04:46.public sector pay, and there was a report today by the Joseph Rowntree
:04:47. > :04:51.Foundation that points out that the freeze on benefits that began in
:04:52. > :04:57.2015 and is not due to end until 2020, working age benefits for
:04:58. > :05:01.people in work, but people out of work also lost ?30 per week off
:05:02. > :05:05.their employment support allowance from April. Because inflation has
:05:06. > :05:10.come into the system, it means these people, right at the bottom of the
:05:11. > :05:14.pile, will see their money go down. The biggest injustice from this
:05:15. > :05:20.Government's policy and terms of pay for those at the bottom is not the
:05:21. > :05:21.1% public sector pay cap, but the five-year freeze on benefits. The
:05:22. > :05:26.lowest paid. Now, we Brits have always
:05:27. > :05:28.enjoyed a friendly rivalry with our American cousins,
:05:29. > :05:30.who this week were in mourning for the 241st anniversary
:05:31. > :05:32.of the disastrous wrong turn they took in 1776, which was always
:05:33. > :05:35.certain to end in tears. Yes, no matter how chaotic,
:05:36. > :05:39.farcical and unpredictable our politics becomes,
:05:40. > :05:42.they're always madder This week, Mr Trump used Twitter
:05:43. > :05:49.to declare war on CNN. North Korea could be next, just
:05:50. > :05:53.as soon as he works out where it is. Maybe he has, while
:05:54. > :05:55.we've been on air. Here's Tim Marshall
:05:56. > :06:12.with his take of the week. Mankind stands on the
:06:13. > :06:15.edge of a precipice. To put it another way, we are all
:06:16. > :06:18.going to hell in a handcart. We've always been going
:06:19. > :06:24.to hell in a handcart. And that's because history
:06:25. > :06:31.probably isn't linear. There is no endgame
:06:32. > :06:35.that we're aiming for. And anyway, compare now
:06:36. > :06:38.with previous periods in history, Globally, women's death
:06:39. > :06:50.in childbirth, down. Rates of polio, malaria,
:06:51. > :06:58.many of the diseases, down. In more and more places,
:06:59. > :07:11.you can turn on the tap And the rapid growth
:07:12. > :07:17.of young democracies. The spread of democracy
:07:18. > :07:23.in the latter half of the 20th century is one of the reasons why
:07:24. > :07:26.things have only got better. But since the financial crash
:07:27. > :07:31.of 2008 and the subsequent difficulties, there seems to be
:07:32. > :07:34.a feeling in the air, even in the Western countries,
:07:35. > :07:39.that perhaps capitalism and liberal democracy is not the answer
:07:40. > :07:42.to the question how to live. To those who complain about living
:07:43. > :07:48.standards now, sure, But relative to the last 10,000
:07:49. > :07:55.years, we've never had it so good. Which is why, in this
:07:56. > :07:58.age of uncertainty, with the new nuclear threat,
:07:59. > :08:01.cyber warfare, terrorism, austerity, when populists from the right
:08:02. > :08:05.and left are telling us they have the answers,
:08:06. > :08:07.we need to remind ourselves that It needs protecting,
:08:08. > :08:16.nurturing, not ripping up. It's possible we are now
:08:17. > :08:19.in the most dangerous period But things have been worse,
:08:20. > :08:23.and that's why it's worth Tim Marshall has made his way to us.
:08:24. > :08:52.Welcome back to the programme. Thank you for inviting me. Just be
:08:53. > :08:57.careful to say everything I tell you. Michael, has the world become a
:08:58. > :09:03.more dangerous place in recent years? Depends we mean by recent
:09:04. > :09:07.years. All of the things that said about recent improvements are right.
:09:08. > :09:09.I do think procedures linked with a number of those things and
:09:10. > :09:15.capitalism is linked with a number of those. What we are not very aware
:09:16. > :09:20.of is that democracy is quite a modern experiment. In 1941 there
:09:21. > :09:25.were 11 democracies, there are now may be about 105, which means most
:09:26. > :09:28.of them are very young indeed. We have not seen them in operation for
:09:29. > :09:34.long enough to know how they will survive. I think the greatest threat
:09:35. > :09:37.to democracy is that it causes competing politicians to
:09:38. > :09:43.overpromise, and therefore to burden their states with debt. I think we
:09:44. > :09:46.have not seen the resolution of that issue. Indeed, in our own country we
:09:47. > :09:51.are in a state where both our main parties are talking about certainly
:09:52. > :09:54.not reducing debt, probably increasing it. If democracy goes on
:09:55. > :09:58.like that, I think it will find itself in difficulty and many of the
:09:59. > :10:04.great benefits we have been talking about will also be in jeopardy. The
:10:05. > :10:07.world felt a dangerous place during the Cold War, sometimes very
:10:08. > :10:15.dangerous, as in the Cuban missile crisis. What I meant by recent years
:10:16. > :10:22.was perhaps in the past 10-15 years, as it began to feel more dangerous
:10:23. > :10:28.again? No, I think Tim is right. I remember the Cuban missile crisis
:10:29. > :10:34.and the Cold War. I remember the turmoil and the constant fear. In a
:10:35. > :10:38.way, North Korea, there is not a lot, I don't think, not much chance
:10:39. > :10:43.of North Korea launching a nuclear missile attack. But there is a
:10:44. > :10:50.feeling that, with Trump at the helm in America, and with the Europe now,
:10:51. > :10:55.after Brexit, a little less sure of its future, that that has created a
:10:56. > :11:00.problem which will no doubt be reflected. But I think the biggest
:11:01. > :11:04.problem, and Tim referred to it, since the global financial crash
:11:05. > :11:08.there is a feeling that capitalism has become more rapacious, that it
:11:09. > :11:13.is less willing to share out its proceeds, that there are greater
:11:14. > :11:17.inequalities. There is a feeling right across capitalist Liberal
:11:18. > :11:22.democracies, it's receding a bit, and the threat of Marine Le Pen and
:11:23. > :11:28.Geert Wilders in Holland receded, but it is still there and that needs
:11:29. > :11:32.to be addressed. But I think Tim is absolutely right, we are too
:11:33. > :11:38.reluctant sometimes to actually record the huge advances that we've
:11:39. > :11:42.made. But the most recent years don't show a growth of democracy.
:11:43. > :11:46.The most recent years are characterised by a rise in
:11:47. > :11:50.authoritarianism. The Russian democratic experiment is over, we
:11:51. > :11:55.have an authoritarian in the Kremlin. The Turkish democratic
:11:56. > :12:01.experiment is coming to an end and we have tired Erdogan in Ankara. The
:12:02. > :12:08.rise of China on to the second, on some measures the biggest economy,
:12:09. > :12:12.is an authoritarian economy. The rise of the Gulf powers,
:12:13. > :12:17.authoritarian states. That is making the world a more dangerous place.
:12:18. > :12:21.Yes, but the point of the argument was to look at things in the round
:12:22. > :12:25.and realise that the world is not going to hell in a handcart. The
:12:26. > :12:28.second part of the argument is to recognise what we have achieved them
:12:29. > :12:34.why we have achieved it does need protecting, precisely because as you
:12:35. > :12:38.are right, things have been drifting, in this age of
:12:39. > :12:43.uncertainty. There are a number of things going on. For once, I
:12:44. > :12:48.disagree with Alan Johnson. Marine Le Pen doubled the vote her father
:12:49. > :12:55.got 15 years ago. I don't call that a failure. Geert Wilders came second
:12:56. > :13:00.in the Netherlands election, and all that is continuing to be on the
:13:01. > :13:04.rise, which is precisely why I ended the argument by saying in this time
:13:05. > :13:08.of increased nationalism and instability, the answers are not
:13:09. > :13:12.with extremists. History has taught us that in uncertain times people
:13:13. > :13:16.reach for extremes and the house falls in. This is not a time to go
:13:17. > :13:20.to the extremes. These new authoritarian countries, which make
:13:21. > :13:24.the world a more dangerous place, although maybe not as dangerous as
:13:25. > :13:30.the Cuban missile crisis, but still more dangerous, these are not Onana
:13:31. > :13:36.republic, tinpot general authoritarian states. These are run
:13:37. > :13:41.by people who actually believe, the Chinese, Mr Erdogan in Turkey, Mr
:13:42. > :13:48.Putin, they believe their way of doing things is better than
:13:49. > :13:51.democracy. During the period when the Soviet Union existed, it
:13:52. > :13:56.appeared democracy and capitalism went hand-in-hand. In fact, they are
:13:57. > :13:59.not the same at all and they are almost opposites, because democracy
:14:00. > :14:03.is all about the quality and capitalism is all about inequality.
:14:04. > :14:09.Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, this oddity is much more
:14:10. > :14:11.visible. I think that Alan is right. There is more inequality within
:14:12. > :14:14.capitalism. The people at the bottom are better off than they used to be
:14:15. > :14:19.but the people at the top are even richer than they used to be. When
:14:20. > :14:23.you go to countries like Turkey or Russia and give them a choice, at
:14:24. > :14:27.least it is arguable by their leaders that the choice that they
:14:28. > :14:31.might feel they are wanting to make, of democracy, is not the best choice
:14:32. > :14:38.because it is accompanied by things like inequality and poverty and
:14:39. > :14:43.soul. So I think capitalism and democracy together are no longer be
:14:44. > :14:50.obvious and natural choice for countries outside the European and
:14:51. > :14:54.American orbit. If you look at the success of authoritarians recently,
:14:55. > :14:59.Mr Putin has largely got his way. He has a new satellite state in Syria,
:15:00. > :15:04.he has his warm water port. The Chinese have become one of the
:15:05. > :15:07.world's most dominant economies. Turkey is playing a bigger role in
:15:08. > :15:14.the Middle East than ever. That makes life more dangerous. When it
:15:15. > :15:19.comes to North Korea, Russia and China sound like the grown-ups. When
:15:20. > :15:26.they are saying the way to resolve this is through diplomacy and
:15:27. > :15:31.engagement, and using... The Americans tried that for years. You
:15:32. > :15:36.have a President in the US to eating all kinds of things. He is always
:15:37. > :15:40.upping the ante. In that sense, as on many occasions, in relation to
:15:41. > :15:45.Syria, it is China and Russia that seem like the grown-ups in the room.
:15:46. > :15:49.And China is very different to the China we remember. They now own
:15:50. > :15:55.Volvo who have just decided to make all of their cars Electric. That is
:15:56. > :15:58.owned by the Chinese. In the sense of their desire for stability in the
:15:59. > :16:01.West, they have moved from the Little red book and Mounsey Tong to
:16:02. > :16:15.a situation where they are engaging. One of the stars symbolises the
:16:16. > :16:19.capitalists. It's 1.4 well billion patriotic capitalists. China is
:16:20. > :16:22.proving wrong the theory that you need liberal democracy to have a
:16:23. > :16:30.successful economy. That's quite dangerous. I mean, I happen to
:16:31. > :16:33.believe in liberal he democracy, not just democracy, I've been reading
:16:34. > :16:37.things that say, no, these are extreme times and we need extreme
:16:38. > :16:42.measures. It always goes wrong wrong. As for North Korea, Mr Trump
:16:43. > :16:47.has boxed himself in. He said he hasn't a red line. Do you remember
:16:48. > :16:52.the tweet when she said, we will build an ICBM. He tweeted will not
:16:53. > :16:56.happen. It has happened. His Defence Secretary said unacceptable. You
:16:57. > :17:00.argue, what, if it's not acceptable, what are you going to do about it?
:17:01. > :17:05.If we have time, Andrew, what they are going to do about it first and
:17:06. > :17:10.foremost go to the United Nations They have drafted a resolution. You
:17:11. > :17:16.know how this stuff works. It's called an ICBM. Russia say they
:17:17. > :17:20.don't think it is, they go not go for it. They will be asked to
:17:21. > :17:27.redraft it. They will redraft it and table it. They warned publicly the
:17:28. > :17:31.Russians, it if you vote owe we will take unilateral action. Which leaves
:17:32. > :17:34.in the air, if it goes through, Mr Trump can say, I did do something
:17:35. > :17:40.about it. I've got these great sanctions. I've been strong. If it
:17:41. > :17:42.doesn't go through and vetoed he is left with unilateral action. It
:17:43. > :17:50.doesn't have to mean military action. It could do. That is
:17:51. > :17:56.incredibly dangerous. I think it is dangerous. It reminds me as part and
:17:57. > :18:01.parcel of what has been happening to democracies. What we used to say, 15
:18:02. > :18:06.or 20 years, is that democracies didn't go to war. Recently they
:18:07. > :18:10.have. Not with each other, yes. Not with each other, perfectly true. The
:18:11. > :18:14.United States and Britain and other democracies have again and again
:18:15. > :18:19.engaged in military conflict. So I think that is another reason why
:18:20. > :18:23.people have felt this loss of confidence in democratic
:18:24. > :18:28.institutions. You have a loss of confidence in America partly because
:18:29. > :18:34.of the Trump administration, the focus is povg to the Pacific
:18:35. > :18:39.hemisphere as it regards the rise of China as the 21st century challenge.
:18:40. > :18:45.Europe is in no position to fill the vacuum in Europe left behind by the
:18:46. > :18:53.Americans. The Russians wish to recreate they have a grip in the
:18:54. > :18:57.Middle East which is still in. A stand off between the Saudis and the
:18:58. > :19:02.Qataris as well which will get worse before it gets better. It's not like
:19:03. > :19:07.the Cuban Missile Crisis. A lot can go wrong? It feels pretty dangerous
:19:08. > :19:12.out there. The argument about we are going to hell in a hand cart in the
:19:13. > :19:17.prism of looking at things from the last ten years. Discounting all
:19:18. > :19:21.those advances made. I mean Tim mentioned about malaria and diseases
:19:22. > :19:26.and clean water. All of that is never reported, but huge advances.
:19:27. > :19:33.Great advances for civilisation. I think actually - go on. I made sure
:19:34. > :19:39.I have time to finish. What I think is happening is that the Second
:19:40. > :19:50.World War a order had a dual polar world, Russia and America. We had a
:19:51. > :19:53.uni polar world. That is no longer the case.
:19:54. > :19:58.The Russians and the Chinese amongst others will not accept it. Turkey
:19:59. > :20:03.won't accept it, Iran won't. The structure of the western dominance
:20:04. > :20:06.is being absolutely challenged and, therefore, the structure is shaking
:20:07. > :20:11.we don't know exactly what is going on. That's why it's shaking. That's
:20:12. > :20:14.- we are in the middle of the structures being cake shaken.
:20:15. > :20:23.Whether it's the World Bank being challenged by the Shanghai Bank. The
:20:24. > :20:26.Chinese banks, or whether it's Nato wandering what it will do. The whole
:20:27. > :20:30.thing is shaking. It's why it's a dangerous time.
:20:31. > :20:36.I will end on a positive note if you've had enough of me. Quick
:20:37. > :20:40.point, firing squad awaits? Bear in mind the positives, yes, individual
:20:41. > :20:47.people and individual things are pretty bad. Overall, I think it's
:20:48. > :20:51.harmful to us to think that they created are terrible and it's never
:20:52. > :20:55.been as bad as this. It's pretty good relative. At a time of foreign
:20:56. > :21:01.policy challenges we have someone in the White House who knows nothing
:21:02. > :21:12.about foreign policy. Someone in Ten Downing Street who knows nothing
:21:13. > :21:14.about foreign policy and icy and in France who knows noes nothing about
:21:15. > :21:17.foreign policy. Thank you for that. Now, it's late, but never too late
:21:18. > :21:20.for a career change late. This week Segolene Royale,
:21:21. > :21:23.former partner of Francois Hollande and French presidential candidate,
:21:24. > :21:25.was made French ambassador Do you think President Macron
:21:26. > :21:32.is trying to tell her something? It's going to mean a lot
:21:33. > :21:35.of travelling between embassies and some pretty
:21:36. > :21:36.lonely diplomatic parties. I do hope the penguins
:21:37. > :21:40.like Ferrero Rocher. Maybe we should send Choo Choo
:21:41. > :21:43.and AJ to keep her company. That would be the caring thing
:21:44. > :21:46.to do, especially since, waiting in the wings,
:21:47. > :21:48.is Philosopher Slavoj Zizek, here So don't you dare Faceblub,
:21:49. > :21:55.wipe your Twitter tears away and get we've been lying
:21:56. > :22:10.to you all for years. You see, nothing you ever see
:22:11. > :22:13.on this programme is original. Put simply, we purloin
:22:14. > :22:14.other people's ideas Our terrible story treatments
:22:15. > :22:18.are lifted from Newsnight, our appalling jokes
:22:19. > :22:19.from the Rochdale Herald. But we're not the only ones
:22:20. > :22:27.living on borrowed ideas. The jackdaw epidemic has reached
:22:28. > :22:30.as high as the Cabinet. Yes, it would seem some in Team May
:22:31. > :22:32.have been pinching policies Plagiarism for the many,
:22:33. > :22:35.not the few! Here's Emma Barnett with her
:22:36. > :22:42.round up of the week. # No money.
:22:43. > :22:49.# No money...#. Can you spare us
:22:50. > :22:53.some change, please? It's for Andrew Neil
:22:54. > :23:01.and the This Week budget - come on! Right, now I've got some money,
:23:02. > :23:30.no more walking for me. The political week was dominated
:23:31. > :23:32.by public-sector pay. The Government is under
:23:33. > :23:35.mounting pressure, including from some Cabinet ministers,
:23:36. > :23:38.to lift the pay cap. Boris, Michael Gove,
:23:39. > :23:53.Justine Greening, Jeremy Hunt, Damian Green have all hinted
:23:54. > :23:55.that there could be Funny that, wasn't it only last week
:23:56. > :24:02.they all voted against a Labour amendment which proposed
:24:03. > :24:05.scrapping the cap? This shop looks good,
:24:06. > :24:18.it looks expensive. Keep the change,
:24:19. > :24:23.thank you very much. Former Tory Cabinet ministers have
:24:24. > :24:26.weighed in to tell current Tory Cabinet ministers to stop
:24:27. > :24:32.picking on the Chancellor. It is not right for Cabinet
:24:33. > :24:34.ministers to gang up I think it is making his position,
:24:35. > :24:40.which is always very difficult, I would have been horrified,
:24:41. > :24:57.as I say, in my day. It's not helpful to have
:24:58. > :24:59.this out in public. After all, Phil can't be expected
:25:00. > :25:02.to balance the books if he's having to stop and explain the concept
:25:03. > :25:06.of restraint to Boris Johnson. Boris took to the airwaves
:25:07. > :25:12.to praise the Prime Minister. What unbelievable grace
:25:13. > :25:19.and steel she has shown over the last few --
:25:20. > :25:21.Indeed. Over the last few weeks, when things
:25:22. > :25:43.did not frankly look too brilliant. Delivering a stable Government,
:25:44. > :25:47.as she said she would. Austerity is fast becoming
:25:48. > :25:54.toxic for the Government. Concerns over the funding of public
:25:55. > :25:57.services is feeding into outrage Housing Minister Alok Sharma spoke
:25:58. > :26:07.for all of Westminster this week. Mr Speaker, on my visits
:26:08. > :26:09.to the West Way, hearing the harrowing accounts of survivors
:26:10. > :26:12.has been the most humbling The families that I've met have been
:26:13. > :26:25.through unimaginable pain. This is a tragedy that should never
:26:26. > :26:29.have happened and we are determined to do all that we can to make sure
:26:30. > :26:32.that something like this Labour want the scope of the inquiry
:26:33. > :26:40.to be expanded to consider the impact of austerity and some
:26:41. > :26:47.Labour MPs are calling for the chair of the inquiry,
:26:48. > :26:49.Sir Martin Moore-Bick, to resign. But the Government
:26:50. > :26:53.defended Sir Martin. Sir Martin was chosen
:26:54. > :26:55.by the Lord Chief Justice, who was approached to find
:26:56. > :26:58.a suitable judge to do this inquiry and he was selected
:26:59. > :27:00.because of his qualities, his experience and his particular
:27:01. > :27:06.expertise in this area. In those circumstances,
:27:07. > :27:08.it does seem to me, he's an eminently suitable person
:27:09. > :27:11.to do it. This austerity debate
:27:12. > :27:19.is happening against a back drop of the DUP bung -
:27:20. > :27:22.I mean deal, as Jeremy Corbyn Last week, the Chancellor said,
:27:23. > :27:31."we all value our public services and the people who provide them
:27:32. > :27:34.to us" and went on to laud his own economic record
:27:35. > :27:36.by saying that we had Well, the Prime Minister found
:27:37. > :27:45.?1 billion to keep her own job, why can't she find the same amount
:27:46. > :27:48.of money to keep nurses and teachers in their job who,
:27:49. > :27:54.after all, serve all of us? The PM responded with well-rehearsed
:27:55. > :27:57.lines on Labour's economic incompetence to roars of support
:27:58. > :28:03.from the Government benches. It isn't fair to refuse to take
:28:04. > :28:06.tough decisions and to load debts on our children and grandchildren
:28:07. > :28:08.for the future. ..it isn't fair to bankrupt our
:28:09. > :28:20.economy because that leads to people losing their jobs
:28:21. > :28:23.and losing their homes, and it isn't fair to go out and tell people
:28:24. > :28:27.that they can have all the public spending they want
:28:28. > :28:29.without paying for it. Some MPs were asking
:28:30. > :28:34.where all this tough talk was from the Prime Minister
:28:35. > :28:36.when she was negotiating Arlene Foster got ?1 billion,
:28:37. > :28:42.she must be the most expensive right-winger since Cristiano
:28:43. > :28:46.Ronaldo. How can the card have been declined,
:28:47. > :28:56.we arranged for a platinum limit. Perhaps we could discuss
:28:57. > :29:10.a payment plan? Thanks to Deuxieme clothing boutique
:29:11. > :29:18.in South West London. We're not sure if they ever
:29:19. > :29:21.did catch up with Emma. The lovely Miranda Green
:29:22. > :29:33.Aston is with us now. Welcome back. Why don't I start with
:29:34. > :29:37.you? Is Mrs May going to survive through until the end of the year,
:29:38. > :29:44.because none of the usual suspects seem in a hurry to challenge her?
:29:45. > :29:47.That's true, and there is a sense in which every few days she survives
:29:48. > :29:51.makes her position stronger just because she is the only one
:29:52. > :29:57.standing. There hasn't been a challenge. There is a bit more
:29:58. > :30:02.scuttled back last week than this week about potential challengers, so
:30:03. > :30:06.it seems quite a fluid atmosphere on the Tory benches. But I think they
:30:07. > :30:12.seemed to think it's safer to let her struggle on and deal with not
:30:13. > :30:16.least the uncomfortable beginning of Brexit negotiations, rather than
:30:17. > :30:21.challenge her. So I would say she probably will be around at the end
:30:22. > :30:26.of the summer. There is no consensus on the success. Tory MPs fear a
:30:27. > :30:30.leadership election would trigger another general election and they
:30:31. > :30:33.would lose that. They would not say that publicly but privately they
:30:34. > :30:40.think they would lose another election. That may stop them rocking
:30:41. > :30:44.the boat. It is worth remembering we are only a month from the general
:30:45. > :30:48.election. If we had a change of leadership now people would say,
:30:49. > :30:53.hang on, she fought the election on a personality thing, so we were
:30:54. > :30:57.electing Mrs May and we are sided not to elect her by any kind of
:30:58. > :31:01.majority, so if you are changing the leader you have to have another
:31:02. > :31:06.general election. With the passage of time, that feeling will lessen.
:31:07. > :31:09.In a few months, people will recognise that the Conservatives won
:31:10. > :31:13.the general election and if they want to change Prime Minister, as
:31:14. > :31:18.they did when they changed Cameron for Theresa May, that is possible.
:31:19. > :31:24.What I think matters is that the Brexit clock has started, and
:31:25. > :31:27.supposedly there are two years for negotiations. It seems from
:31:28. > :31:31.revelations made by someone who until recently worked for David
:31:32. > :31:36.Davies that the team negotiating Brexit feel hemmed in by commitments
:31:37. > :31:40.that were made in Mrs May's conference speech, that they are
:31:41. > :31:46.being propelled towards a particular hard to find Brexit by the pledges
:31:47. > :31:52.she made. No European Court of Justice role, etc. It seems to me
:31:53. > :31:56.that quite soon the people doing negotiations will say, three months,
:31:57. > :32:00.six months, nine months has gone of our two year negotiation and we all
:32:01. > :32:04.feel we are negotiating on the wrong premise, the wrong instructions. At
:32:05. > :32:09.which point, surely, they would have to change the person giving
:32:10. > :32:14.instructions. But does David Davis really think that? He sounds like he
:32:15. > :32:18.is on the same song sheet as Mrs May on this matter. He is a government
:32:19. > :32:23.minister with a lovely breezy manner about him and he would betray none
:32:24. > :32:26.of that. But journalists speak to him in private and there is no
:32:27. > :32:30.inkling he is unhappy with the mandate he has been given. The
:32:31. > :32:35.person who worked for him until recently made him sound extremely
:32:36. > :32:40.happy. How does Jeremy Corbyn force an election when the DUP, because of
:32:41. > :32:47.his past associations, regard him as toxic? They wouldn't want him.
:32:48. > :32:49.That's true but I remember Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness, the
:32:50. > :32:55.Chuckle Brothers. That was accepted in Northern Ireland. A guy called
:32:56. > :33:06.James Molineaux, who ran the Ulster Unionists party, when I was leading
:33:07. > :33:09.the union and we were trying to stop the privatisation of the Post Office
:33:10. > :33:13.and succeeded, they were crucial because major had a slim majority
:33:14. > :33:17.which was being diminished by the Grim Reaper. So this deal they had
:33:18. > :33:22.done, scraping the bottom of the barrel, maybe, but there is more to
:33:23. > :33:27.come, and the DUP will assist on lots of things. But how does that
:33:28. > :33:32.help Corbyn force an election? That is his difficulty. There was a
:33:33. > :33:35.debate this week about the women who have lost their pensions, where many
:33:36. > :33:40.Tories were involved in the debate and the DUP made clear that they
:33:41. > :33:46.want to see a resolution on that. At some stage, something will happen
:33:47. > :33:49.that will threaten, even with the DUP support, her majority. So I
:33:50. > :33:55.think Corbyn has to wait for that. I think the question is, Theresa May
:33:56. > :33:59.will not lead the Tories into the next general election. Will she go
:34:00. > :34:07.buy some are, by Christmas, early next year, but one thing is certain,
:34:08. > :34:11.she is going to go. If things settle down, even with the government
:34:12. > :34:15.walking wounded, surviving week to week, there is a pole tomorrow
:34:16. > :34:21.putting Labour well ahead of the Tories, in the Times. How do you
:34:22. > :34:25.sustain that momentum? That is the problem if you can't bring about an
:34:26. > :34:29.election. It is in Labour's interests to get another election in
:34:30. > :34:34.the autumn at some time. That is clear. They are in a higher at the
:34:35. > :34:40.moment. They are, but I don't think necessarily they are the ones with
:34:41. > :34:44.the problem at the moment. I think that the Conservative Party have a
:34:45. > :34:49.Yule threat to their core brand and appeal, and that is much more
:34:50. > :34:53.serious. -- they have a double threat to their brand and appeal. If
:34:54. > :34:57.they lose being the party of the economy, that is a fundamental
:34:58. > :35:01.problem. Secondly, this idea of being thought of as the default,
:35:02. > :35:05.competent party of government, the more that this administration limps
:35:06. > :35:10.on, the more you actually have a Conservative Party slogan for
:35:11. > :35:15.another election which is, everything is appalling, don't let
:35:16. > :35:18.Labour blow it. It doesn't work. So I think the Conservative Party
:35:19. > :35:24.position is much more difficult than Labour's. I think they can sustain
:35:25. > :35:29.this for a while. A variety of Tory voices speaking for and against the
:35:30. > :35:34.public sector pay cap, including from inside the cabinet. That is a
:35:35. > :35:40.sign of Mrs May's weakness, isn't it? Yes, it is a lack of authority.
:35:41. > :35:46.The fact that posterity, which was covered in our little film to go,
:35:47. > :35:50.shows that as -- the entire political debate is being played out
:35:51. > :35:54.on Labour ground. There is this feeling that posterity has gone too
:35:55. > :35:58.far, possibly has been a complete failure. I think the truth is, that
:35:59. > :36:03.if you tried to sustain a public pay policy for a very large number of
:36:04. > :36:08.years, it would fray at the edges. To that extent, the Labour Party is
:36:09. > :36:12.right. It is also true of Mr -- what Mrs May was saying, that if you have
:36:13. > :36:16.no public sector pay policy, firstly you will blow the budget, which
:36:17. > :36:19.would be bad for all of us, and secondly you would actually employ
:36:20. > :36:22.fewer people than you otherwise would do because they would be paid
:36:23. > :36:30.more money. Those are basic universal truths. Tuition fees
:36:31. > :36:33.seemed to be the Tories' Achilles' heel among younger voters and it is
:36:34. > :36:38.not clear what they can do about that. The problem with the tuition
:36:39. > :36:41.fee policy is that tinkering with the terms and conditions and
:36:42. > :36:44.changing the way they operate has undermined consent about the
:36:45. > :36:50.fundamental principle of the policy. This idea of graduates contributing
:36:51. > :36:53.to the costs is well established and has been established right back from
:36:54. > :36:58.when Alan was minister and I was covering the debate in the house at
:36:59. > :37:09.the time. But things like an interest rate of 3% on top of RPI,
:37:10. > :37:14.6.1% is extraordinary. The government is charging 6% on student
:37:15. > :37:18.tuition fees! They have frozen the threshold at which it kicks in at
:37:19. > :37:22.21,000, which should have been rising with earnings. Most
:37:23. > :37:27.significantly, you do not get grants maintenance now come on top of loan.
:37:28. > :37:33.Meaning that poorer students have a shed load of debt. They do not need
:37:34. > :37:37.to abandon tuition fees. Jeremy Corbyn's policy was the wrong
:37:38. > :37:41.policy, a massive middle class hung and not the right way to use public
:37:42. > :37:44.money, but the government are under pressure and they have to look again
:37:45. > :37:48.at the interest rate. They ought to look again at maintenance grants,
:37:49. > :37:53.not loans, and various other things at the edges. I agree entirely. The
:37:54. > :37:58.other thing is that at last, the market has begun to kick in. It is
:37:59. > :38:04.extraordinary that until now students have been charged ?9,000 to
:38:05. > :38:08.go to Imperial, London, or Oxford, or Cambridge, and ?9,000 to take
:38:09. > :38:13.pretty third-rate degrees at pretty second-rate universities. It has
:38:14. > :38:18.been extraordinary that students have not until now protested that
:38:19. > :38:22.they are paying the same amount of money for really good goods and
:38:23. > :38:27.ready bad goods. That is beginning to kick in. You need shorter
:38:28. > :38:32.courses, too, much more technical education, that all needs to come
:38:33. > :38:36.out of this. Allen, one question on Labour. Any evidence that team
:38:37. > :38:39.Corbyn is reaching out to all wings of the party, as opposed to just
:38:40. > :38:45.consolidating their grip on the party? Not that I have seen. And I
:38:46. > :38:49.think the nature of these things, I was just hearing to Mike that in
:38:50. > :38:53.tomorrow's news there is a story about Lucy Anne Burj are being
:38:54. > :38:59.forced to sign a letter of apology to Jeremy Corbyn for saying bad
:39:00. > :39:04.things about him. She once said something. The nature of sectarian
:39:05. > :39:08.politics is that you are constantly looking for purity and constantly
:39:09. > :39:14.looking for scapegoats to sacrifice to the great leader. If they can't
:39:15. > :39:20.get that out of their system, I'm afraid we are back into problems.
:39:21. > :39:25.May be in tomorrow's papers, but as of late this afternoon, not one
:39:26. > :39:30.Labour MP had stood up in her defence. I am sure that will change.
:39:31. > :39:32.I hope it will. Was Jeremy Corbyn forced to sign a letter of loyalty
:39:33. > :39:37.to Tony Blair? Amanda, thank you. Now, are you feeling
:39:38. > :39:39.a bit worse for wear? Is the incessant political
:39:40. > :39:41.pandemonium getting too much? Or maybe you were just on a night
:39:42. > :39:44.out with Mike Ashley of Sports Direct, or worse,
:39:45. > :39:46.work for him. Either way, Boris Johnson knows
:39:47. > :39:49.a thing or two about feeling blue. He's very sad because his
:39:50. > :39:51.Foreign Office nanny doesn't let him Or mount a leadership
:39:52. > :39:54.challenge against Mrs May. So, if like Boris, you're feeling
:39:55. > :39:57.a bit down in the dumps, don't worry, we're here
:39:58. > :39:59.for you and we're putting # Yes, I'm a just
:40:00. > :40:12.little, too sensitive. Big bad John relaxed
:40:13. > :40:18.the dress code last Thursday. THE SPEAKER: Do I think it's
:40:19. > :40:22.essential that a member wears a tie? Rather than celebrating the NHS,
:40:23. > :40:29.the party opposite, rather shamelessly, have tried to weaponise
:40:30. > :40:33.the NHS as a mere political But did it warrant this touchy
:40:34. > :40:40.response from John Hayes on Monday? I ought to say, as a matter
:40:41. > :40:43.of courtesy, I won't be taking interventions from anyone who's not
:40:44. > :40:46.wearing a tie. Meanwhile, far-left French
:40:47. > :40:49.politicians took offence to President Emmanuel Macron's
:40:50. > :40:54.Versailles address on Monday. Was the regal setting
:40:55. > :40:56.was an affront to democracy? He portrayed himself as a sort
:40:57. > :40:59.of a god and we have something against gods and we have
:41:00. > :41:01.something against Kings, Was it grass of the Duchess
:41:02. > :41:11.of Cornwall to snigger through a traditional Inuit throat
:41:12. > :41:14.singing performance in Canada? Sometimes a lack of
:41:15. > :41:25.effort causes offence. Was EU Commission President
:41:26. > :41:29.Jean-Claude Juncker right to get tetchy about the poor turnout
:41:30. > :41:32.for his appearance in I will never again attend
:41:33. > :41:42.a meeting of this kind. Controversial philosopher,
:41:43. > :41:45.Slavoy Zizek, thinks we live in a hyper-sensitive age,
:41:46. > :41:50.so what does that mean for politics? # Yes I'm just a little,
:41:51. > :42:05.too sensitive...#. Welcome to the programme. Why have
:42:06. > :42:09.we become so hypersensitive? First, let me say how grateful I am that I
:42:10. > :42:15.am here with you, our supreme leader. The dream of us philosophers
:42:16. > :42:19.is always to have a supreme leader but signally to give your advisers
:42:20. > :42:28.to control you. Let's go on sensitivity. It's interesting how on
:42:29. > :42:32.the one hand, but it's a limited phenomenon, we are becoming more and
:42:33. > :42:37.more sensitive. Look at this obsession with harassment. It
:42:38. > :42:42.happens to me all the time. You look a woman into the hive for one second
:42:43. > :42:49.too much, it is a visual rate. You use a dirty word, it is verbal rape,
:42:50. > :42:55.and so on. But the key to this phenomenon and we have it at a
:42:56. > :42:59.different level. For example, what fascinates me is that we do not live
:43:00. > :43:05.in an era of consumerism, but strictly controlled consumerism.
:43:06. > :43:10.Beer, yes, but without alcohol, coffee, yes, but without caffeine.
:43:11. > :43:15.Even sex without sex, in some sense. I think that our dream is this type
:43:16. > :43:22.of controlled pleasure, where you avoid any threat. This is why I even
:43:23. > :43:27.find very suspicious, and I am not a smoker, this obsession with the
:43:28. > :43:31.danger of smoking. Many of my leftist friends who are otherwise
:43:32. > :43:37.for free drugs and so on, with smoking, you stop it. And I think,
:43:38. > :43:42.as a philosopher, what makes me really sad about it is what a sad
:43:43. > :43:48.image of our human elation is is implied in this. Other persons are
:43:49. > :43:55.basically viewed as a threat. Although they speak about tolerance,
:43:56. > :44:00.they need -- beneath all this political correctness is terrible in
:44:01. > :44:04.tolerance. It is, remain at the proper distance, don't come too
:44:05. > :44:10.close to me as a briefing, living being with certain desires and so
:44:11. > :44:17.on. But what is so interesting is that this type of hypersensitivity
:44:18. > :44:25.is accompanied by another phenomenon. It is enigmatic which
:44:26. > :44:31.comes first, what even some people now in Germany called the great
:44:32. > :44:38.regression. Here I am, a leftist Conservative. I believe in good
:44:39. > :44:46.manners. I believe in talking nice, gently and in some populist right
:44:47. > :44:51.thinks you can render and now publicly, which simply were not
:44:52. > :44:58.acceptable five or ten years ago. On the one hand, this leftist cultural
:44:59. > :45:03.elite is getting more and more sensitive, which words do you use.
:45:04. > :45:13.They like, Liberal lefties, they like to feel guilty. We no longer
:45:14. > :45:17.use the N-word. I agree with it. OK, Black. No, black is too racist,
:45:18. > :45:21.African Americans. And it goes on. What about those from the Caribbean
:45:22. > :45:28.who are not from Africa? This is what left Liberals love, to feel
:45:29. > :45:35.guilty. This recycling stuff. Did you put your Coke bottles aside? No,
:45:36. > :45:41.but did you put newspapers aside. Of course, you never do enough. I think
:45:42. > :45:45.this is a false option. It is just a shadow of monks more dangerous
:45:46. > :45:52.process which is again the vulgarisation of our lives. One can
:45:53. > :45:57.see how they work together. For example, you remember how the Bush
:45:58. > :46:01.administration, I think, referred to torture as in hardest interrogation
:46:02. > :46:09.techniques. I can predict what will happen. Rape will become an enhanced
:46:10. > :46:14.seduction technique, and so on. So I think I see the danger of political
:46:15. > :46:23.correctness. Of course, I agree with it when it means really preventing
:46:24. > :46:26.brutality, suffering. But political correctness, the waiters practised,
:46:27. > :46:33.its function is to distract from real problems and so on. From actual
:46:34. > :46:38.problems of ordinary working people. That's why I think political
:46:39. > :46:43.correctness is partly responsible for the election of Donald Trump. It
:46:44. > :46:48.symbolises what is wrong with the Democratic party. On that point, we
:46:49. > :46:56.have to leave it there. I don't know why I bothered writing these other
:46:57. > :47:02.questions. I just got one question. A supreme leader does not act like
:47:03. > :47:04.this. You really need an adviser. It was a wonderful answer and I am not
:47:05. > :47:06.at all sensitive. Now, that's your lot for tonight,
:47:07. > :47:09.folks, but not for us. We're off to Malia for Mike Ashley's
:47:10. > :47:11.boozy business bonanza. He's hosting a lock
:47:12. > :47:14.in with all the Z list Even Red Ed Miliband was spotted
:47:15. > :47:18.aboard a flight from Stanstead, lining his stomach with UHT milk
:47:19. > :47:21.so he doesn't vomit in the fireplace Mike has offered us millions
:47:22. > :47:25.of pounds to bring our very own line up of vintage political giants,
:47:26. > :47:27.so we couldn't resist. Nighty night, don't let
:47:28. > :47:39.the G20 celebrations bite. Please join me in
:47:40. > :48:33.welcoming Coldplay. # And so lying underneath
:48:34. > :48:40.the stormy skies...#