0:00:11 > 0:00:13Tonight on This Week, who is watching whom?
0:00:13 > 0:00:14Question Time, babe.
0:00:14 > 0:00:15David Dimbleby.
0:00:15 > 0:00:16He's good looking, you know.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18Is anyone watching us?
0:00:18 > 0:00:19This programme's complete rubbish.
0:00:19 > 0:00:20This Week?
0:00:20 > 0:00:23I thought they ditched that long time ago.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26Edwina Currie casts her eyes over the Westminster sex scandals.
0:00:26 > 0:00:31It may be gripping viewing, and some of it is serious,
0:00:31 > 0:00:34but at the moment it's looking like a low-budget movie that's
0:00:34 > 0:00:35turning into a witchhunt.
0:00:35 > 0:00:42What do you think of Harriet and Michael?
0:00:42 > 0:00:45I liked Harriet's memoirs.
0:00:45 > 0:00:50Wha' gwan?
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Pod cake Andy Parsons reviews the political week.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55We are kicking up a storm at the This Week bakery,
0:00:55 > 0:00:59where we'll be revealing the winners and losers of the last seven days.
0:00:59 > 0:01:02I wouldn't eat that.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05That's ridiculous.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08You know how to get egg white, don't you?
0:01:08 > 0:01:11You break the egg white and you pour it from one
0:01:11 > 0:01:13to the other, one to the other.
0:01:13 > 0:01:14Has the BBC pinched Bake Off?
0:01:14 > 0:01:16I prefer the Channel 4 version anyway.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18And funny girl Shazia Mirza thinks people should be less offended
0:01:18 > 0:01:21by what's on the box.
0:01:21 > 0:01:28Try not to be offended by everything you see on TV.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31I'm parched.
0:01:31 > 0:01:32Put the kettle on.
0:01:32 > 0:01:33OK.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35It's on too late anyway.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37Why do they put it on so late for?
0:01:37 > 0:01:38Cha!
0:01:38 > 0:01:46I'm going to my bed.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Have we been taken off air?
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Evenin' all, welcome to This Week, live from the heart of the Palace
0:01:52 > 0:01:55of Pestminster, where we've been forced to create our very
0:01:55 > 0:01:57own Safe Space to shield us from the unwanted attentions
0:01:57 > 0:02:00of sundry politicians with wandering hands and an unhealthy
0:02:00 > 0:02:04obsession with knees.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07Yes, this is an oasis of safety, a veritable refuge for snowflakes
0:02:07 > 0:02:10like us of a nervous disposition.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12Not a statute in sight to upset us.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Never mind to tear down.
0:02:14 > 0:02:15And, of course, no jokes.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19Regular viewers may conclude that no jokes is already one of this
0:02:19 > 0:02:22show's most distinctive hallmarks.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25But we want to make it clear that jokes are an invidious weapon
0:02:25 > 0:02:27of repression in the hands of the powerful and
0:02:27 > 0:02:28will not be tolerated.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Plus, we can't think of any.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32Tonight's proceedings will be conducted with
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Presbyterian solemnity - though the BBC has asked me
0:02:34 > 0:02:39to point out other miserable religions are available.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42Speaking of misery, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two guests
0:02:42 > 0:02:46that you could never mistake for a ray of sunshine.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48They don't do weddings, birthdays or bar mitzvah's
0:02:48 > 0:02:51but if you need folks to heighten the gloom at a funeral,
0:02:51 > 0:02:52they're the best.
0:02:52 > 0:02:56I speak, of course of Harriet #littlepinkbus Harman
0:02:56 > 0:03:04and Michael #choochoo Portillo.
0:03:04 > 0:03:10Welcomed to you both. Your moment of the busy week?You might be
0:03:10 > 0:03:14surprised, the centenary of the bell for declaration, which was when the
0:03:14 > 0:03:19Foreign Secretary first declared that an's policy was to provide a
0:03:19 > 0:03:22homeland for the Jewish people. The commemorations have not been
0:03:22 > 0:03:26attended this week by the Labour Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, which
0:03:26 > 0:03:31is remarkable in itself, but it made me reflect the extent to which the
0:03:31 > 0:03:35reputation of Israel around the world, really, has changed during my
0:03:35 > 0:03:42lifetime. In the 1967 war, most people saw Israel as the underdog
0:03:42 > 0:03:47and felt that they were very hard done by. Now, many people take the
0:03:47 > 0:03:53opposite point of view. Why is that? I think it may be because of
0:03:53 > 0:03:59proportional representation.How do you work that out?In their system,
0:03:59 > 0:04:04tiny parties are represented in parliament and extremists, who
0:04:04 > 0:04:08favour the development of the settlements, who take the hardest
0:04:08 > 0:04:12line on foreign policy, have two be included in governments because of
0:04:12 > 0:04:17the proportional representation system, and so the foreign policy
0:04:17 > 0:04:21and the settlements policy of government is determined by these
0:04:21 > 0:04:27fringe groups, these extremists, and it's most unfortunate.From the bow
0:04:27 > 0:04:29for declaration to proportional representation. You wouldn't get
0:04:29 > 0:04:37that on Newsnight, Harriet.One of the best arguments against
0:04:37 > 0:04:41proportional representation. I think this week has been the moment. I
0:04:41 > 0:04:45think the tide is really turning and I think the moment is about women
0:04:45 > 0:04:51not having to put up with being preyed on by men at work, powerful
0:04:51 > 0:04:54men forcing themselves on younger, junior women, people having to put
0:04:54 > 0:05:03up with homophobic and sexism at work, and I think Michael Fallon
0:05:03 > 0:05:07losing his job as Secretary of State last night is all highly
0:05:07 > 0:05:10significant. And I think that it's really in the wake of the Harvey
0:05:10 > 0:05:15Weinstein revelations. Suddenly a whole load of complaints that women
0:05:15 > 0:05:18had thought they just had to put up with are now out there. And I think
0:05:18 > 0:05:24it has some way to go, but people hate what is happening but it is
0:05:24 > 0:05:28actually alter the good and I think it will be a positive change.We
0:05:28 > 0:05:33will spend a bit of on that tonight.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36There are echoes of the MPs' expenses scandal in Westminster's
0:05:36 > 0:05:37current meltdown over sexual harassment and worse.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40One minister has already resigned, another is being investigated,
0:05:40 > 0:05:42scores of other political names are being bandied about,
0:05:42 > 0:05:44sometimes with corroboration, often with no evidence whatsoever.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46It's become a good old indiscriminate feeding frenzy,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48in which inappropriate behaviour, sexual harassment and rape
0:05:48 > 0:05:51are being elided into one continuum, doing the real victims of appalling
0:05:51 > 0:05:57acts no favours.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59But it is also a watershed moment.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01What was acceptable, or thought to be only of minor
0:06:01 > 0:06:04concern, will be no more.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08New standards will be expected from those in positions of power
0:06:08 > 0:06:10and new concern and procedures for those mistreated
0:06:10 > 0:06:14or abused by the powerful.
0:06:14 > 0:06:20A belated move into the 21st century or an overreaction?
0:06:20 > 0:06:22Edwina Currie was an MP for over a decade.
0:06:22 > 0:06:30This is her Take of the Week.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46Westminster has got the tongues wagging, the website is buzzing and
0:06:46 > 0:06:51Twitter in a Twitter. But in my experience, it was never some kind
0:06:51 > 0:06:56of modern Sodom and Gomorrah. Why? Because by their nature politicians
0:06:56 > 0:07:05can be the most boring of people, both men and women. Their ardour is
0:07:05 > 0:07:09more likely to be about taxes and social welfare, and they are more
0:07:09 > 0:07:12likely to get agitated about universal credit and select
0:07:12 > 0:07:14committee chairmanship than about whether the secretary is wearing
0:07:14 > 0:07:20stockings. There are workplace relationships. Some of them are
0:07:20 > 0:07:36famous. I'm thinking, of course, of Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott. They
0:07:36 > 0:07:40are passionate about their politics, and they want to share the euphoria
0:07:40 > 0:07:43of success, or the despair of failure, with someone who
0:07:43 > 0:07:48understands. It may be a colleague who is pouring that glass of wine in
0:07:48 > 0:07:58sympathy, and not the person waiting at home. The lack of etiquette today
0:07:58 > 0:08:03about how to make such an approach is proving harmful. There is a
0:08:03 > 0:08:06universe of difference between a clumsy but unwanted pass and a
0:08:06 > 0:08:14sexual assault, or harassment, or worse. Many of the allegations
0:08:14 > 0:08:18flying around in Westminster at the moment are ancient. Some of them are
0:08:18 > 0:08:24consensus you will. A few involve alcohol. And Westminster has a truly
0:08:24 > 0:08:33terrible history when it comes to helping people who are our collects.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37-- who are alcoholic. But by labelling all sexual approach in the
0:08:37 > 0:08:42workplace as unacceptable, we risk two things. Firstly, ruining good
0:08:42 > 0:08:46men. And secondly, marginalising those who really do suffer serious
0:08:46 > 0:08:58assaults, and they should be going to the police.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05Edwina Currie joins us. Welcome. Harriet, is it turning into a
0:09:05 > 0:09:11witchhunt?Not at all. It is long over Jude that things that have been
0:09:11 > 0:09:15swept under the carpet and women have had to endure without any sense
0:09:15 > 0:09:21that they would be able to complain and be fairly heard, and that if
0:09:21 > 0:09:26they did complain they would be lambasted all over the newspapers, I
0:09:26 > 0:09:31think at last there is some sense of fairness in all of this. The thing
0:09:31 > 0:09:36is that you go to work in order to do a job and be treated as a
0:09:36 > 0:09:39colleague and be treated professionally, not to be preyed on
0:09:39 > 0:09:42because you are younger, by some older man who you feel you can't
0:09:42 > 0:09:46complain about because they are in a senior position. I could not
0:09:46 > 0:09:52disagree more with you, Edwina, about the idea that at stake is good
0:09:52 > 0:09:57men being lost. I think that what we are going to have is a better
0:09:57 > 0:10:05working atmosphere.Let Edwina comeback.I think we are getting a
0:10:05 > 0:10:10very unpleasant working atmosphere in which, in many workplaces it's
0:10:10 > 0:10:14now almost impossible for one person to make a comment to another person
0:10:14 > 0:10:18that is common about their appearance, or even some good work
0:10:18 > 0:10:23they have done. Harriet, you were Deputy Leader of your party, in a
0:10:23 > 0:10:27position to do something about this, if you seriously believe that
0:10:27 > 0:10:30something needed doing. And yet some of the complaints in the last week
0:10:30 > 0:10:35or two have been about members of your own party, and the feeling they
0:10:35 > 0:10:39were not being properly dealt with. I am all for dealing with proper
0:10:39 > 0:10:42complaints in a proper way. What bothers me is that there does not
0:10:42 > 0:10:45seem to be any etiquette for how on earth we might say to each other,
0:10:45 > 0:10:51you are looking very nice today, or calm down, dear. Suddenly, it's
0:10:51 > 0:10:56being conflated into a sexual attack. There is a huge difference,
0:10:56 > 0:11:00and that attitude that says all men are basically predators, I really,
0:11:00 > 0:11:04really don't hold with that and I really feel that it's very, very
0:11:04 > 0:11:10destructive.I do think anybody is saying all men are predators but
0:11:10 > 0:11:13unless we sort out those who are predatory in Westminster, then
0:11:13 > 0:11:18everyone gets stained with that.So do that. Dismiss them, deal with
0:11:18 > 0:11:24them properly. Don't choose them as parliamentary candidates, Harriet.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28The way to deal with it is to have a complaints system that has an
0:11:28 > 0:11:32independent element, so that people know they will be heard fairly, and
0:11:32 > 0:11:36also anonymity. There has to be anonymity for complainants.Wait a
0:11:36 > 0:11:43minute. That can then be a charter for people who want to damage
0:11:43 > 0:11:48someone, or who are jealous, or who have been rejected? One of the
0:11:48 > 0:11:52problems in Parliament is that you do have people who fall in love with
0:11:52 > 0:11:56their MP, fall in love with somebody who is powerful, and then they can
0:11:56 > 0:12:00be an absolute pain. And then you are worried. How on earth do you
0:12:00 > 0:12:03reject them without them making a whacking great complaint that can
0:12:03 > 0:12:10destroy you and your career, when you are innocent?There is one thing
0:12:10 > 0:12:15which is about when men are in a powerful position and it is hard as
0:12:15 > 0:12:21a junior...Is it only men?Let me finish. When men are in a junior --
0:12:21 > 0:12:24senior position and women are junior and feel they cannot complain, but
0:12:24 > 0:12:28the other thing is tribal loyalty, don't make a fuss, don't complain
0:12:28 > 0:12:34about your own party.That is what Bex Bailey was told, the young
0:12:34 > 0:12:40Labour woman.Who is it who overrules, who says party loyalty is
0:12:40 > 0:12:47more important?I am saying there are many reasons for a feeling of
0:12:47 > 0:12:50reluctance among younger women and some men to report sexual predators
0:12:50 > 0:13:00because they feel it might be being disloyal to their party.Is it your
0:13:00 > 0:13:04feeling that there are lots of sexual predators in Westminster,
0:13:04 > 0:13:10because it was never my feeling when I was there?Well, I think there are
0:13:10 > 0:13:13a lot of people who have had bad experience and who have been preyed
0:13:13 > 0:13:17on in an unwanted way and who feel there is nothing they can do about
0:13:17 > 0:13:22it. That is why will we need to do is, on a cross-party basis, ensure
0:13:22 > 0:13:25we have a proper complaints system which is independent and gives
0:13:25 > 0:13:33anonymity.Soap people can make anonymous complaints? How would you
0:13:33 > 0:13:36check the veracity?What I mean is reporting restrictions, so you can't
0:13:36 > 0:13:40be splashed all over the newspapers, because people will not come forward
0:13:40 > 0:13:43if that is going to be the only thing anybody ever knows about them
0:13:43 > 0:13:48in future. If you complain about a minister, then you would be all over
0:13:48 > 0:13:52the newspapers.So it would not be anonymous. It would be confidential,
0:13:52 > 0:13:59is what you are saying?It would not be reported.Let me hear from
0:13:59 > 0:14:04Michael. You have both had a good run. Hold on, Harriet, let Michael
0:14:04 > 0:14:09have a say. I know he is just a man, but give him a few minutes. What is
0:14:09 > 0:14:14your take on this?Well, I suspect there is a problem and also the
0:14:14 > 0:14:19great danger that in the hullabaloo this will be taken too far, that
0:14:19 > 0:14:23very different sorts of issues will be conflated together. I heard
0:14:23 > 0:14:28Edwina say that good men will be lost. Michael Fallon, I think, is a
0:14:28 > 0:14:31very good man and I think he was doing a good job and I think he was
0:14:31 > 0:14:37important to the government. I don't own it what it is that's got him to
0:14:37 > 0:14:45resign.Serial inappropriate behaviour.Yes. Because I once held
0:14:45 > 0:14:50his position, I would understand that being alongside the Armed
0:14:50 > 0:14:53Forces Day after day, who have extraordinarily high standards in
0:14:53 > 0:14:58almost everything, he would perhaps apply to himself an extraordinarily
0:14:58 > 0:15:01high standard and that might be appropriate. But it may be the case
0:15:01 > 0:15:05nonetheless a very good man has gone down for a couple of mistakes,
0:15:05 > 0:15:14rather than a basic depravity.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18There are deep-seated cultural issues in Westminster of power.
0:15:18 > 0:15:24Primarily still male power, which is used inappropriately. Parliament
0:15:24 > 0:15:27doesn't have the procedures in place. If you were a major company,
0:15:27 > 0:15:35if I was a multinational bank, they have huge HR departments, procedures
0:15:35 > 0:15:41in place, Westminster has never done that.Andrew, there is a danger of
0:15:41 > 0:15:45assuming because there is an imbalance of the sexes, there is an
0:15:45 > 0:15:52imbalance of power. We have 208 women MPs now, when we first
0:15:52 > 0:15:55started, there were 23. They are still talking in the same way. One
0:15:55 > 0:16:00of the problems, there isn't an extension of employment law to
0:16:00 > 0:16:03members of Parliament or to their staff. They directly employ their
0:16:03 > 0:16:07staff. The rules have changed so they cannot employ their wives in
0:16:07 > 0:16:11the way they used to, and that was a very healthy thing to have in the
0:16:11 > 0:16:19past. That might need to change. But it needs to change for any aspect of
0:16:19 > 0:16:23bullying comic needs to change for all sorts of complaints to be
0:16:23 > 0:16:27resolved. There needs to be a procedure that is broadly
0:16:27 > 0:16:31acceptable. I hate this idea, because we have got a lot of blokes,
0:16:31 > 0:16:37there must be a lot of sexual predator going on. I don't buy into
0:16:37 > 0:16:43it. If women behaved more like the equals you would like them to be,
0:16:43 > 0:16:49Harriet and treated the men like equals, you might find that gap
0:16:49 > 0:16:54doesn't exist?I feel you are another planet, Edwina Currie the
0:16:54 > 0:16:57nobody is saying they are all predators, but there is clearly a
0:16:57 > 0:17:06problem.Is there?Yes there is. I am sure Michael Fallon was pushed
0:17:06 > 0:17:11out by Theresa May, who actually, to her credit, seems to want to have
0:17:11 > 0:17:15decent standards. There is a chance now for the parties to get together
0:17:15 > 0:17:19to get over their tribal divisions and say we want decent standards for
0:17:19 > 0:17:30everybody.For example, if he put his hand on Julia Hartley Brewer's
0:17:30 > 0:17:34like, that isn't an example of using your power against somebody who is
0:17:34 > 0:17:39an inferior or dependent. Journalists are very powerful people
0:17:39 > 0:17:43as well. It may be inappropriate and foolish, but it doesn't represent
0:17:43 > 0:17:49what you are talking about, which is the abuse of power, does it?I don't
0:17:49 > 0:17:53think that necessarily, who knows, Theresa May probably does and
0:17:53 > 0:18:00Michael Fallon...My understanding is, Michael Fallon could not give
0:18:00 > 0:18:04the Prime Minister and assurance that more things wouldn't come out.
0:18:04 > 0:18:10I mentioned it because it is very easy to fall into the idea that
0:18:10 > 0:18:15every one of these problems is about an abuse of power. As Edwina said
0:18:15 > 0:18:19some may be consensual relationships, some might be just
0:18:19 > 0:18:25folly, but those two need not surly be an abuse of power.It isn't Polly
0:18:25 > 0:18:32if you are Secretary of State.It wasn't, it is back in 2002 when you
0:18:32 > 0:18:40lot were in power.You don't know they aren't current.Now you are
0:18:40 > 0:18:45possibly committing libel.You cannot condemn people on the basis
0:18:45 > 0:18:51of I suspect. It is not good enough, Harriet.If you let me finish my
0:18:51 > 0:18:58sentence...No, I will exercise my power. What is this about women
0:18:58 > 0:19:03being so weak and so useless. If this gorgeous man puts his hand on
0:19:03 > 0:19:11my knee, I might tell him to push. But I'm not to fall about. It would
0:19:11 > 0:19:19be my husband telling him to push. Brief, final four, Harriet?We are
0:19:19 > 0:19:24going to see change and it will be the good. Sexual predation and
0:19:24 > 0:19:29sexual harassment going on in the world outside Westminster, we can
0:19:29 > 0:19:34put our own house in order and protect women outside as well.The
0:19:34 > 0:19:39danger is he might be behind the curve?Yes, this moment was the week
0:19:39 > 0:19:46was the tipping point. The Prime Minister to her credit...We are
0:19:46 > 0:19:50running out of time. In fact we are well over so I will have to thank
0:19:50 > 0:19:53Edwina and move on.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55Now, it's late, Michael Fallon late.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57Or, as he's now known, Fallon Gone.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59Speaking of bad wordplay, writer and comedian Shazia Meeera
0:19:59 > 0:20:03has a black belt in verbal sparring.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05So she'll be shining our spotlight on inappropriate jokes.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08Obviously, if she tries to tell any, we'll dim
0:20:08 > 0:20:10the lights and cut the sound.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12Nothing can intrude on this safest of safe spaces.
0:20:12 > 0:20:13Including your inane comments.
0:20:13 > 0:20:18But if you feel you can't help yourself, then whiffle
0:20:18 > 0:20:21away on the Tweeter, Fleecebook, SnapNumpty and my new favourite
0:20:21 > 0:20:27social media site Yadda Yadda Yadda @ I couldn't give a stuff.com.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30It's not been a great week for the public square.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33Allegations of inappropriate behaviour, sexual harassment and,
0:20:33 > 0:20:36worst of all, rape have resonated across continents and time zones,
0:20:36 > 0:20:41from Hollywood to the House of Commons, accompanied either
0:20:41 > 0:20:43by belated mea culpas or indignant denials.
0:20:43 > 0:20:48Ministerial careers are in ruins, TV series are being cancelled,
0:20:48 > 0:20:50the air is thick with thespian confessions and apologies.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55Women, and some men, who've bottled up terrible wrongs
0:20:55 > 0:20:59for years are finally finding their voice.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02At least the Great British Bake Off had a happy ending.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05It was especially generous of Pru Leith to lighten these dark
0:21:05 > 0:21:11times by telling us the ending before it had even finished.
0:21:11 > 0:21:20Here's Andy Parsons with his amuse bouche of the political week.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47There was supposed to be three of us in the final.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49Molly the dog ate Andrew's profiteroles and when I said
0:21:49 > 0:21:52I couldn't get all the ingredients because of Brexit, Michael
0:21:52 > 0:21:56stormed off furiously.
0:21:56 > 0:21:58The Westminster week has been dominated by allegations of sexual
0:21:58 > 0:22:00harassment and inappropriate behaviour, by MPs
0:22:00 > 0:22:04towards junior staff.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07A stony-faced Prime Minister listened to MPs debate
0:22:07 > 0:22:09the problem, to a House, where, for once, women
0:22:09 > 0:22:18MPs outnumber the men.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20As members of Parliament, our constituents will be rightly
0:22:20 > 0:22:22appalled at the thought that some representatives in Parliament may
0:22:22 > 0:22:25have acted in an entirely inappropriate way towards others.
0:22:25 > 0:22:30These reports risk bringing all of our offices into disrepute.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32She's right, there is obviously a problem.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35It's a good thing, actually that it's been exposed and it
0:22:35 > 0:22:38has to be dealt with.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41No woman, or man, for that matter, coming to work in this House should
0:22:41 > 0:22:44be subjected to unwanted sexual advances from those who are in
0:22:44 > 0:22:48a position of power over them.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51Away from Parliament, but part of the same culture,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54the most serious allegation was made by Labour activist, Bex Bailey,
0:22:54 > 0:22:57who said she'd been raped at a party event and then discouraged
0:22:57 > 0:23:00from reporting the attack.
0:23:00 > 0:23:08I was seriously, sexually assaulted at a Labour Party event by,
0:23:08 > 0:23:13it wasn't an MP, but who was more senior to me.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17I told a senior member of staff.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19It was suggested to me that I not report it.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22I was told that if I did, it might damage me.
0:23:22 > 0:23:28Meanwhile, a sex pest spreadsheet of 40 Tory MPs is circulating.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31High-profile names listed include Rory Stewart,
0:23:31 > 0:23:36Dominic Raab and the PM's de facto deputy, Damian Green.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39They all deny the claims.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42But last night, Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, who is not
0:23:42 > 0:23:46included on the spreadsheet, resigned over separate allegations
0:23:46 > 0:23:49about past behaviour.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52There are people saying today, Michael Fallon
0:23:52 > 0:23:55was a safe pair of hands.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58That seems very much the wrong choice of words.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00In recent days, allegations have been made about MPs'
0:24:00 > 0:24:02conduct, including my own.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05Many of these allegations have been false, but I realise that
0:24:05 > 0:24:10in the past, I may have fallen below the high standards that we require
0:24:10 > 0:24:15of the Armed Forces, that I have the honour to represent.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19I have reflected now on my position in government and I am
0:24:19 > 0:24:22therefore resigning.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24While the Commons takes a long, hard look at itself,
0:24:24 > 0:24:28the Lords can be cut down to size.
0:24:28 > 0:24:32Proposals for a new, 'one in, two out rule',
0:24:32 > 0:24:35and limiting new peers to 15-year terms would make the Lords
0:24:35 > 0:24:38smaller than the Commons.
0:24:38 > 0:24:42Well, eventually.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44But there's over 800 Lords.
0:24:44 > 0:24:49How about one in, 700 out?
0:24:49 > 0:24:52We know that the House is too big.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55A smaller, more effective House would be able to strengthen public
0:24:55 > 0:24:58confidence and build support for our vital, constitutional law.
0:24:58 > 0:25:04It is now up to us.
0:25:04 > 0:25:07As well as fewer Lords, the country is going to have
0:25:07 > 0:25:08to cope with fewer bankers.
0:25:08 > 0:25:14FAKE SCREAM.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17The Bank of England warned this week that a no
0:25:17 > 0:25:19deal Brexit could mean that 75,000 banking jobs would go.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22Scaremongering is a strong word, but I do think there is a pattern
0:25:22 > 0:25:25at the Bank of England and they ought to reconsider
0:25:25 > 0:25:27and look at the opportunities of Brexit, talk up the City
0:25:27 > 0:25:30of London, talk up our financial services expertise and help Britain
0:25:30 > 0:25:33succeed across the whole world.
0:25:33 > 0:25:40Meanwhile, remainers have whipped up a posse to go and see the EU.
0:25:40 > 0:25:49REPORTER:What brings you here today?
0:25:49 > 0:25:51We're going to see Michel Barnier and a few other people
0:25:51 > 0:25:52in the European Commission.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54REPORTER:Are you here to stop Brexit?
0:25:54 > 0:25:57If only it were that easy, no, no we're here just to get
0:25:57 > 0:25:58a better understanding.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01Some people suggesting when it comes to a no deal,
0:26:01 > 0:26:03if you're buying a house, try suggesting no deal
0:26:03 > 0:26:04and see how you get on.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06In that scenario, you've still got your old house.
0:26:06 > 0:26:10We've set fire to our old house, to burn down in two years' time.
0:26:10 > 0:26:14HE COUGHS AND SMOKE ALARM BEEPS.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18Although, some Jeremy Corbyn supporters can stomach a no deal
0:26:18 > 0:26:22if it means another election.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25We have an exciting, real chance for change in this country,
0:26:25 > 0:26:30to reverse years of neglect and build a better tomorrow.
0:26:30 > 0:26:38Move forward with us, or move over and get out of our way.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42Len McCluskey, a man who was elected on a 12% turnout.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45Imagine having a party and only 12% of the people you'd
0:26:45 > 0:26:47invited showing up.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49It's like organising your own Last Supper
0:26:49 > 0:26:53and only Judas coming along.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56To furnish his cred with the youth vote, Jeremy Corbyn is set to appear
0:26:56 > 0:26:59on celebrity Gogglebox tomorrow.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01That does look quite nice.
0:27:01 > 0:27:02It does look pretty good.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04It's great, is that garlic yoghurt as well?
0:27:04 > 0:27:05I think it probably is.
0:27:05 > 0:27:07That does look good.
0:27:07 > 0:27:09Actually, you know what?
0:27:09 > 0:27:12She's better than we are at this.
0:27:12 > 0:27:13Yeah, OK.
0:27:13 > 0:27:15At PMQs, Jeremy Corbyn focused on tax evasion.
0:27:15 > 0:27:25Our school budgets are being cut...
0:27:25 > 0:27:29More people waiting longer for treatment
0:27:29 > 0:27:32on the National Health Service.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35Does the Prime Minister think it is acceptable that when it
0:27:35 > 0:27:38comes to paying taxes, there's one rule for the super-rich
0:27:38 > 0:27:43another for the rest of us?
0:27:43 > 0:27:46The top 1% of earners in this country are paying 28%
0:27:46 > 0:27:48of of the tax burden.
0:27:48 > 0:27:58That is the highest percentage ever under any government.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02Mrs May told a chastened House of Commons that a cross-party
0:28:02 > 0:28:05approach was needed to tackle sexual harassment, but no mention was made
0:28:05 > 0:28:06of the sex pest spreadsheet.
0:28:06 > 0:28:12But I can reveal the MP who is on the spreadsheet, who has been
0:28:12 > 0:28:18in a video with three males in an extreme sex act, is...
0:28:18 > 0:28:28KLAXON SOUNDS.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30What?
0:28:30 > 0:28:32Was I not supposed to reveal it until later?
0:28:32 > 0:28:35Oh, I'm terribly sorry, I'm in a different time zone.
0:28:37 > 0:28:39Thanks to the Rosalind Miller bakery in London,
0:28:39 > 0:28:41who bear no responsibility for Andy's culinary efforts.
0:28:41 > 0:28:43Andy's show, Peak Bullshit, is currently touring
0:28:43 > 0:28:46around the country.
0:28:46 > 0:28:56Maybe stick to comedy not cakes from now on, eh, Andy.
0:28:56 > 0:29:04Michael, how significant is this rise in interest rates?Well, the
0:29:04 > 0:29:08Bank of England seems to have been itching to do this for a long time.
0:29:08 > 0:29:12Mark Carney has been predicting an increase in interest rates for
0:29:12 > 0:29:16several years, it generally giving forward guidance which he would have
0:29:16 > 0:29:22done better not to have given, since it was always wrong. I think their
0:29:22 > 0:29:24enthusiasm to raise interest rates is wrong. I think it is a bad
0:29:24 > 0:29:29decision. Much of the inflation we are experiencing is due to the
0:29:29 > 0:29:34one-off effect of the pound going down after the Brexit referendum.
0:29:34 > 0:29:39It's going to hit some people. If you have a £300,000 mortgage, I
0:29:39 > 0:29:44think it is £39 a month extra money. It will take extra money out of the
0:29:44 > 0:29:49economy. I don't think the economy is robust enough for that to happen.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53However, because the Bank of England has been wrong until now on interest
0:29:53 > 0:29:56rates and Brexit, I suspect it's not that significant because I don't
0:29:56 > 0:30:01think we will see another increase for some time.The danger must be
0:30:01 > 0:30:06that inflation is running ahead of wages, squeezing living standards.
0:30:06 > 0:30:09So families will have to cope with a rise in interest rates, and this
0:30:09 > 0:30:12might just be the first. It could be a further squeeze on living
0:30:12 > 0:30:19standards.It will be but it's not half as much as Michael said is the
0:30:19 > 0:30:25impact on prices of the fall in the pound. And inflation going ahead of
0:30:25 > 0:30:30people's pay being stagnant. And that is a huge problem, and they
0:30:30 > 0:30:37have been predicting this as was mentioned on the film, 75,000 jobs
0:30:37 > 0:30:45to be lost in the financial services sector potentially. Another Bank of
0:30:45 > 0:30:50England prediction.To clarify, it was a separate report, and a member
0:30:50 > 0:30:54of the Bank of England was asked to comment on it and he chose the
0:30:54 > 0:30:5875,000 figure, saying, that is about right. It is not Bank of England
0:30:58 > 0:31:04research.It has been challenged by the Conservatives, who are not
0:31:04 > 0:31:08publishing the 58 sector impact assessment they have actually drawn
0:31:08 > 0:31:13up. It would be better if they published them, rather than simply
0:31:13 > 0:31:18saying the assessment that is out there is wrong.I think they are
0:31:18 > 0:31:23going to.I thought they said they were.I think your party has pushed
0:31:23 > 0:31:26them into it. There may be redactions, but they will publish.
0:31:26 > 0:31:31Give it to the Brexit select committee, that is what has been
0:31:31 > 0:31:40asked for.I don't want to... The economy has slowed down this year,
0:31:40 > 0:31:45certainly in the first half. Are we through the worst, or is it going to
0:31:45 > 0:31:50slow even more?I have no idea. The economy may have slowed down but it
0:31:50 > 0:31:54has done better than most people predicted. I think it has been
0:31:54 > 0:31:58pretty robust, given the number of people, including the Bank of
0:31:58 > 0:32:02England, Harriet Harman and everyone else, who tries to do it down.Mrs
0:32:02 > 0:32:07May calling an election that Jamaat that added to the uncertainty,
0:32:07 > 0:32:13didn't it?Of course it did, and failing to win the election. So when
0:32:13 > 0:32:17you factor that in, I think the economy has done pretty well. So I
0:32:17 > 0:32:21don't think we are on a downward spiral. There is a robustness to the
0:32:21 > 0:32:26economy that most people had not spotted.The problem with that is
0:32:26 > 0:32:31that living standards are not even where they were in 2010. So the idea
0:32:31 > 0:32:35that the economy is doing well, I suppose it could have done worse,
0:32:35 > 0:32:38but for most people they feel they are working harder and they are not
0:32:38 > 0:32:43getting better off. And there is the big unknown of what is going to
0:32:43 > 0:32:55happen. March 1919 is only two more Christmases.2019, yes. You
0:32:55 > 0:32:59underline my point about the Bank of England. How you think the right
0:32:59 > 0:33:05response to the fact that wages are not keeping price with -- keeping
0:33:05 > 0:33:08pace with prices is to take money away from people in their mortgages
0:33:08 > 0:33:12each month, I don't know.What is the biggest threat to growth and
0:33:12 > 0:33:19investment? Three choices. Brexit, Mrs May's weak and unstable
0:33:19 > 0:33:27government, or the prospect of a Corbyn government?I think the first
0:33:27 > 0:33:34two, and uncertainty.You are only allowed to choose one. I asked for
0:33:34 > 0:33:41the biggest threat.My moment of the week was the whole week, so I am
0:33:41 > 0:33:45changing the parameters. If people are making investment decisions,
0:33:45 > 0:33:51they do not know the context in which they will be doing it.So is
0:33:51 > 0:33:55it Brexit?I think the fear that we will get a worst deal out of Brexit
0:33:55 > 0:33:57because of the conflict in the government, so they are the same
0:33:57 > 0:34:04problem.Michael?I would love to answer the question but all three
0:34:04 > 0:34:09are important factors. All three of them are important factors and they
0:34:09 > 0:34:13feed off each other. I am fairly optimistic about Brexit. We don't
0:34:13 > 0:34:18know how it will be. The government is weak are now that Michael Fallon
0:34:18 > 0:34:23has left it. And if the government is weak, there is the prospect of a
0:34:23 > 0:34:27Corbyn government, which terrifies many people.If it terrifies
0:34:27 > 0:34:32everybody we will not have a Corbyn government. It terrifies the Tories
0:34:32 > 0:34:35because it does not seem to be terrifying the public in the way
0:34:35 > 0:34:41they would like it too.It does not frighten you?My worry about Jeremy
0:34:41 > 0:34:46Corbyn was that the public would turn away from him, the Tories would
0:34:46 > 0:34:50be stronger, Labour would be weaker, and we need the voters in order to
0:34:50 > 0:34:53be in government.So nothing to do with principal, just whether you
0:34:53 > 0:34:59would be in power.I think it is very important for Labour to be in
0:34:59 > 0:35:02power. I do not have fundamental policy disagreements with him, I
0:35:02 > 0:35:06just thought he could not lead us towards government, and June changed
0:35:06 > 0:35:17that.Is he a Marxist?I have been a Labour London MP with Jeremy Corbyn
0:35:17 > 0:35:21for many years but I did not know him very well because we were
0:35:21 > 0:35:26engaged in rather different things. You were in government and he was
0:35:26 > 0:35:28kept on the backbenches.I don't think he sought to get into
0:35:28 > 0:35:33government. Actually, what has happened now is that he has done a
0:35:33 > 0:35:37good election campaign, and appealing manifesto, and he is
0:35:37 > 0:35:41really moving things forwards and people are finding that more
0:35:41 > 0:35:46appealing.Did you ever think he would be favourite to win an
0:35:46 > 0:35:49election?No, I didn't, but I thought we were going in the wrong
0:35:49 > 0:35:53direction with voters and we actually gained seats. So I was
0:35:53 > 0:35:56happy to find that I was proved wrong and it is interesting to see
0:35:56 > 0:36:00how Jeremy Corbyn is doing and prime ministers questions now. He is doing
0:36:00 > 0:36:07the craft. He is saying, if she can't lead, she should leave. That
0:36:07 > 0:36:16is the craft of it.So you are a fan now?Yes, I think I am.We used to
0:36:16 > 0:36:18hear from the Blairites that they thought nationalisation was the
0:36:18 > 0:36:22wrong thing to do, giving rights to the trade unions was the wrong thing
0:36:22 > 0:36:27to do, shoving at rates of taxation was the wrong thing to do. Now it is
0:36:27 > 0:36:30clear that it was not that these things were wrong, it was just that
0:36:30 > 0:36:34it made it less likely that they would get back to power. Now that it
0:36:34 > 0:36:37looks like they might get back to power, all the things that were
0:36:37 > 0:36:43wrong before are perfectly all right. It is very revealing.We are
0:36:43 > 0:36:47not shoving up taxes, we are going back on the 50p rate, going back on
0:36:47 > 0:36:51the rail franchises which aren't working.I don't want to go through
0:36:51 > 0:36:55the Labour manifesto again. I want to ask a former Defence Secretary
0:36:55 > 0:37:00what he makes of Gavin Williamson being the new Defence Secretary.I
0:37:00 > 0:37:05do not know Gavin Williamson but I have some very, very good friends,
0:37:05 > 0:37:09whose judgment I trust completely, who do know him, whose opinion of
0:37:09 > 0:37:14him is the highest.Really?In parts of Westminster it has gone down by
0:37:14 > 0:37:19-- like a lead balloon. But my friends think he is one of the
0:37:19 > 0:37:24brightest stars in the firmament. Nonetheless, it is unusual for
0:37:24 > 0:37:28someone to go from Chief Whip to Secretary of State. But if he is as
0:37:28 > 0:37:36good as my friends tell me, he will take that in his stride. Of course,
0:37:36 > 0:37:39within a party there are lots of people who would like to have been
0:37:39 > 0:37:42promoted themselves and they will use their sharp tongues to talk him
0:37:42 > 0:37:49down. There is nothing surprising about that.We shall see.
0:37:49 > 0:37:50It's a brave politician, or any public figure,
0:37:50 > 0:37:52who'd tell a joke these days.
0:37:52 > 0:37:54Almost before the laughter has died you'll be issuing grovelling
0:37:54 > 0:37:56apologies for offending someone's sensibility and condemned
0:37:56 > 0:37:59to the gulag of social media disapprobation until the online mob
0:37:59 > 0:38:01has moved on to monster some other poor sod.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04The lines between what is acceptable and what is not are being redrawn
0:38:04 > 0:38:07and the new boundaries are not always easy to discern, especially
0:38:07 > 0:38:08for folks of a certain age.
0:38:08 > 0:38:10These days the safest course is probably an early
0:38:10 > 0:38:12night with a cup of cocoa and an improving book.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15So is this the new normal?
0:38:15 > 0:38:16Who knows?
0:38:16 > 0:38:24That's why we're putting jokes and taste in the spotlight.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38This Week is such bad taste that sometimes we are lost for words.
0:38:38 > 0:38:40Meh.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Um...
0:38:43 > 0:38:45Maybe keeping schtum is your best bet when things get sensitive.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47Following accusations of bad taste, Michael Gove
0:38:47 > 0:38:54apologised for this exchange with Neil Kinnock on Saturday.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56Sometimes I think that coming into the studio with you,
0:38:56 > 0:38:59John, is a bit like going into Harvey Weinstein's bedroom.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02John goes way past groping.
0:39:02 > 0:39:03Way past grouping.
0:39:03 > 0:39:10You just pray that you emerge with your dignity intact.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14Do you need to say anything at all to be accused of bad taste?
0:39:14 > 0:39:15David Walliams' Halloween costume solicited accusations
0:39:15 > 0:39:25of racism on Tuesday night.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27It isn't only jokes that can be bad taste.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30How about readings of history?
0:39:30 > 0:39:33White House chief of staff General John Kelly said this
0:39:33 > 0:39:35about the American civil war on Monday.
0:39:35 > 0:39:42The lack of an ability to compromise led to the civil war.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45Which has led to accusations that Kelly is an apologist for slavery.
0:39:45 > 0:39:49Happy and safe Hallowe'en.
0:39:49 > 0:39:52Thanks, guys.
0:39:52 > 0:39:57What about apologies?
0:39:57 > 0:40:05Kevin Spacey came out as gay in the same breath as appearing
0:40:05 > 0:40:07to apologise for allegedly making a sexual advance on actor
0:40:07 > 0:40:09Anthony Rapp when he was a child, provoking a backlash.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12The gay community is saying, "Sorry, it's not because you're gay,
0:40:12 > 0:40:14"it's something you did that was improper.
0:40:14 > 0:40:19"And please don't connect the two".
0:40:19 > 0:40:24Comedian Shazia Mirza thinks some people go out
0:40:24 > 0:40:25of their way to be offended.
0:40:25 > 0:40:30So are we all too thin-skinned, or are we really living
0:40:30 > 0:40:36in an age of bad taste?
0:40:36 > 0:40:42And Shazia is with us now.
0:40:42 > 0:40:47Are we in a culture where we are looking to be offended so that we
0:40:47 > 0:40:52can be offended?Some people are offended and they do not know why,
0:40:52 > 0:40:56some are offended on other people's behalf, some are offended because
0:40:56 > 0:40:58others are not offended enough, and some are offended because they just
0:40:58 > 0:41:02want someone to write to. You ask someone why they are offended and
0:41:02 > 0:41:07they can't tell you why. If you don't know why you are offended,
0:41:07 > 0:41:12you're not offended.Sometimes people are offended because things
0:41:12 > 0:41:15are offensive sometimes.Sometimes people are offended and others join
0:41:15 > 0:41:21in and go, I am offended as well. It is contagious because once one
0:41:21 > 0:41:24person says it, others join in and go, yes, that's right, I'm offended,
0:41:24 > 0:41:33but I don't know what about.Why has it come to this?It hasn't.Some
0:41:33 > 0:41:36people are offended on other people's behalf because they feel
0:41:36 > 0:41:42they should be. We are fine. Don't be offended for us. I'm fine.Should
0:41:42 > 0:41:47Michael Gove have apologised for his Harvey Weinstein joke?I'm a
0:41:47 > 0:41:51comedian. When I heard that, I laughed, I thought it was funny. But
0:41:51 > 0:41:59context is everything, and he was in the studio at 8:10am on Radio 4,
0:41:59 > 0:42:0360th anniversary celebrations. It was not a comedy club. So context is
0:42:03 > 0:42:07everything. If I said that on stage at a comedy club, people would have
0:42:07 > 0:42:13laughed.It was a live audience and they did not seem offended.John
0:42:13 > 0:42:20Humphrys laughed, Neil Kinnock laughed, he got a round of applause.
0:42:20 > 0:42:27Should he have apologised?I think if you are somebody who cares about
0:42:27 > 0:42:30what Harvey Weinstein has been doing, preying on people and getting
0:42:30 > 0:42:36away with it for years, it's not that funny, really. It's not the
0:42:36 > 0:42:41sort of joke I would make myself.So Charlie Chaplin should not have made
0:42:41 > 0:42:48jokes about Hitler?I have long been accused of being a humourless
0:42:48 > 0:42:52feminist. I will give you two examples I protested about, because
0:42:52 > 0:43:00they were offensive and hurtful.We need to be quick.This was a
0:43:00 > 0:43:03hospital right magazine back in the day and people like Andrew say these
0:43:03 > 0:43:08things are perfectly all right. Two jokes. One was, how do you get 100
0:43:08 > 0:43:14dues into a mini? One in the driving seat, 99 in the ashtray. That is not
0:43:14 > 0:43:19funny.We will stop with that one example and we will not bother with
0:43:19 > 0:43:22a one-minute's silence that you would dare to think what I will
0:43:22 > 0:43:27think about that, because you have no knowledge at all. David Walliams
0:43:27 > 0:43:40Wenger Kim Jong-il and costume... But the thing is, Andrew.Be quiet.
0:43:40 > 0:43:45It was Halloween and I have people -- seen people dressed as far worse.
0:43:45 > 0:43:50It was fancy dress and it was Halloween, it was in context.Do you
0:43:50 > 0:43:55think more now about your jokes because of the danger of a reaction
0:43:55 > 0:43:59that you might not have got five or ten years ago?As a comedian, if you
0:43:59 > 0:44:04are not offending someone, you are not doing well. You are just not
0:44:04 > 0:44:07doing the job, because someone is bound to be offended by anything you
0:44:07 > 0:44:12say. Anything.Firstly, there is a danger that people being offended as
0:44:12 > 0:44:17a way of clamping down on free speech. Secondly, the Kevin Spacey
0:44:17 > 0:44:21case, I am ready worried that great art that would be created in future
0:44:21 > 0:44:26is not going to be created because this man is going to be ostracised.
0:44:26 > 0:44:30And I have long thought about the connection between the artist and
0:44:30 > 0:44:37the art, the art is separate from the artist.What are you up to?I am
0:44:37 > 0:44:40on tour, going round the country offending people.Good luck with
0:44:40 > 0:44:42that.
0:44:42 > 0:44:43So that's it for another week.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45Scripts were by Molly the Dog, location catering
0:44:45 > 0:44:47by the Greasy Spoon, wardrobe by Army Surplus,
0:44:47 > 0:44:50and the show was shot on location in Lou Lou's.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52But we're not hanging around for the after-party.
0:44:52 > 0:44:53We're heading for the This Week bunker.
0:44:53 > 0:44:56Yes, we've invested in a luxury bunker to keep us safe
0:44:56 > 0:44:57come the Armageddon.
0:44:57 > 0:44:59It comes complete with a heated dog basket for Molly,
0:44:59 > 0:45:02a yoga mat for Harriet and a toy train set for Michael.
0:45:02 > 0:45:04Plus, of course, Blue Nun on tap.
0:45:04 > 0:45:05The End of Days?
0:45:05 > 0:45:06We can hardly wait!
0:45:06 > 0:45:16Nighty-night, don't let Sandi and Sandra from Gogglebox bite.
0:45:17 > 0:45:22David Dimbleby, I can't even pronounce it. David Dimbleby. I
0:45:22 > 0:45:35can't say his name.Dig a B?When I'm on TV, I have to eat first,
0:45:35 > 0:45:42babe. I can't concentrate. What's going on?What's his name?I don't
0:45:42 > 0:45:50know. Google him. Who is the presenter of this Week?Andrew Neil
0:45:50 > 0:46:02is the presenter of this week.Yes, him.Here's my mate. Diana.Not
0:46:02 > 0:46:12Diana, Diane.The one where they sit down, very, very close.