:00:21. > :00:23.Welcome to This Week's World - a new show that hopes to bring
:00:24. > :00:26.you the big ideas and the trends that are shaping the world.
:00:27. > :00:29.Switch your microphone off before your say
:00:30. > :00:40.We will bring you the one about the Iraqi Prime Minister and the sofa.
:00:41. > :00:42.This week, is it time to shut down refugee camps?
:00:43. > :00:45.We're at the biggest in the world and it's not where you'd expect.
:00:46. > :00:48.David Miliband tells us why the whole system may be broken.
:00:49. > :00:51.And, we speak to the man who once tried to abolish the World Bank.
:00:52. > :00:54.Is that still his plan now he's in charge of it?
:00:55. > :00:57.How Obama's olive branch is making more flee their home.
:00:58. > :01:00.And, we ask our panel for their moments of the week.
:01:01. > :01:03.Before all that, some of the bits that may have caught your eye
:01:04. > :01:11.Do not adjust your sets. This was the week the unimpeachable were
:01:12. > :01:14.finally impeached and the unassailable were elected. Normal
:01:15. > :01:20.service will resume soon. Or will it?
:01:21. > :01:24.As the anticorruption summit got going in London President Roussef
:01:25. > :01:27.was suspended in Brazil for... Corruption.
:01:28. > :01:39.Cue protest and counter protest. How many days until the Olympics again?
:01:40. > :01:41.Not to be outtrumped, the Philippines voted in Dirty Harry as
:01:42. > :01:45.their new President. Who know whethers it was his promise to
:01:46. > :01:49.execute 10,000 or indeed his jokes about rape that delighted the public
:01:50. > :01:57.most but collectively they got him the job.
:01:58. > :02:05.In Europe, don't offend Erdogan whatever you do, he is now suing one
:02:06. > :02:10.of Germany's biggest media moguls. He. With the country's Prime
:02:11. > :02:14.Minister resigning last week, that migrant deal with the EU is looking
:02:15. > :02:20.more strained. Oh, and it's Eurovision this
:02:21. > :02:25.weekend. What do you prefer? European techno or European
:02:26. > :02:28.technocrats? Forget the Brexit debate. Brits wanting to leave the
:02:29. > :02:32.song contest have a 20-point lead. To chat through some
:02:33. > :02:35.of those stories, and more, our panel in the studio,
:02:36. > :02:38.Blathnaid Healy, UK editor Great to have you both here.
:02:39. > :02:43.of the Financial Times. Great to have you both here.
:02:44. > :02:45.start by asking each of you Great to have you both here.
:02:46. > :02:53.person of the week. Doesn't have to be somebody you like. Who springs to
:02:54. > :02:54.mind? I would have to say President Erdogan of Turkey, not because he is
:02:55. > :03:02.somebody I like but because he Erdogan of Turkey, not because he is
:03:03. > :03:07.been trying to escalate his attempt to export his allergy to any
:03:08. > :03:14.criticism to Europe. In Turkey, there are about 2,000 people, 2,000
:03:15. > :03:18.cases against people who have dared to criticise him. He is actually
:03:19. > :03:24.been trying to do the same in Germany. Germany which needs him and
:03:25. > :03:31.has to assert and extent fent allowed him to do this. This week he
:03:32. > :03:40.has tried, but luckily failed, to have an injunction against the CEO
:03:41. > :03:46.of a major media group because the CEO wanted - made a statement that
:03:47. > :03:54.was published in German media, in support of the comic who written a
:03:55. > :04:01.famous poem... Who criticised him. It was an offensive poem. He now
:04:02. > :04:05.faces a criminal case. I guess that the point is that Turkey is
:04:06. > :04:11.centre-stage of so many things right now, EU summit, the EU deal, it's
:04:12. > :04:14.the humanitarian summit, as well. From Angela Merkel's standpoint
:04:15. > :04:18.there is a need to balance the issues and the concerns of her
:04:19. > :04:22.country who wants to express their feelings about him, but also to keep
:04:23. > :04:26.him on side because he is so key to what's happening in Europe right
:04:27. > :04:31.now. Pretty central. Your person of the week, we have been talking about
:04:32. > :04:39.the new Philippines President who they call Dirty Harry. You have gone
:04:40. > :04:42.one further. Yeah, the first transperson to be elected into the
:04:43. > :04:46.Philippines Congress so a different story to the one that dominated a
:04:47. > :04:51.lot of the headlines in the Philippines. She's from a political
:04:52. > :04:55.dynasty, I think both her mother and father were figures, large figures
:04:56. > :05:00.in politics there. She has taken a seat. She was voted with an
:05:01. > :05:09.overwhelming majority of 62% of the vote. She's vowed to take on the
:05:10. > :05:13.trans-cause and further equality of the trans-community. There was a
:05:14. > :05:16.councillor elected here, trans-gender, as well, you would
:05:17. > :05:22.think it was a tipping point and the cases in China, we have had the
:05:23. > :05:30.opposite. Yeah, a difficult case. A person whose identity hasn't been
:05:31. > :05:34.disclosed is known as MrC and he was born female and was working for a
:05:35. > :05:37.company and was told by the company they couldn't - he couldn't wear the
:05:38. > :05:40.clothing that he wanted to wear to work every day because it wasn't
:05:41. > :05:46.deemed to be appropriate for the company that he was working within.
:05:47. > :05:49.So he took his case after he was fired to the labour arbitration
:05:50. > :05:52.panel and they effectively told him, well, sorry, but the company was in
:05:53. > :05:56.the right. There was no discrimination. It's interesting
:05:57. > :06:02.when the state steps in and I think your row of the week takes us on to
:06:03. > :06:14.that. The toilet insanity, that's what I call it. In North Carolina,
:06:15. > :06:18.essentially, the legislator passed a bill that would prevent people,
:06:19. > :06:23.transgender people, from choosing which bathroom they wanted to go to.
:06:24. > :06:29.This is, of course, part of a much larger trend that we are seeing in
:06:30. > :06:35.various US states right now. What happened this week is that after the
:06:36. > :06:41.Justice Department stepped in and essentially told North Carolina to
:06:42. > :06:45.scrap this bill, North Carolina has sued the Justice Department. There's
:06:46. > :06:51.going to be a lot of wrangling about the civil rights act and what does
:06:52. > :06:57.it mean and what does the inclusion of sex actually mean? But it's a
:06:58. > :07:02.case that actually says an awful lot than it's not just about bathrooms.
:07:03. > :07:08.Interesting when Obama comes as it were to the rescue in a civil rights
:07:09. > :07:12.case. Yeah, the words this week that really resonated in the
:07:13. > :07:17.transcommunity were the words spoken about we see you and I think the
:07:18. > :07:23.transcommunity took those words and people who have been vocal within
:07:24. > :07:27.the community, it meant a lot that Loretta Lynch said that and said we
:07:28. > :07:32.are going to work to try to help. We are going to end with your soft
:07:33. > :07:36.furnishing moment of the week, I say this advisedly. You have gone to a
:07:37. > :07:41.different place. The gaffe of the week wasn't necessarily with the
:07:42. > :07:49.Queen and David Cameron. In fact, it was earlier with a pristine white
:07:50. > :07:53.sofa in Iraq. This comes off the back of the protests over the
:07:54. > :07:58.weekend with those who occupied parliament. There was a sofa that
:07:59. > :08:02.had blood stains on it and bottles and the speaker and Prime Minister
:08:03. > :08:06.in Iraq looking at it kind of mournfully. This photograph for a
:08:07. > :08:09.lot of people in Iraq summarises, I suppose, the feeling of how out of
:08:10. > :08:14.touch they are with the people that they could be looking mournfully at
:08:15. > :08:17.a sofa when there are, you know, much wider issues outside of the
:08:18. > :08:22.Green Zone. What was interesting was that the way that started to go
:08:23. > :08:28.viral. It wasn't that it started more protests, people were filming
:08:29. > :08:32.their own sofas. All these people looking at their own sofases and
:08:33. > :08:37.people photoshopping people. It totally took off on social media and
:08:38. > :08:41.it was widely shared. Does this feel like let them eat cake moment, when
:08:42. > :08:47.leaders seem out of step and out of touch with the electorate?
:08:48. > :08:51.Absolutely. I think that said an awful lot about Iraq, particularly,
:08:52. > :08:56.at this moment. The Government is in disarray, when people are out on the
:08:57. > :09:03.streets, and there doesn't seem to be a solution to any of this. I
:09:04. > :09:08.think it was both desperation, but also just people are just fed up and
:09:09. > :09:13.the sofa and the fact that you just had them looking at a white sofa for
:09:14. > :09:16.no reason. Nobody tried to figure out what the source of this picture
:09:17. > :09:21.was, which was striking. Nobody even cared what the source of the sofa
:09:22. > :09:25.was. It told them, you know, this is the state of Iraq today.
:09:26. > :09:29.Now, most people know the Syrian war has prompted a refugee crisis
:09:30. > :09:33.But, in fact, it's just a small part of a much more
:09:34. > :09:36.Across the world, the number of refugees is rising.
:09:37. > :09:39.And the system that's meant to deal with them is failing.
:09:40. > :09:49.Here's the story of that failure in numbers.
:09:50. > :09:56.After World War II the United Nations was set up. One of its early
:09:57. > :10:03.tasks was to help refugees in Europe using aid money. Over 70 years that
:10:04. > :10:09.remit has grown hugely. So has the cost. In 2,000 the cost of managing
:10:10. > :10:12.all the crises was $2 billion. Now, it's $25 billion.
:10:13. > :10:19.Even in real terms, that's an incredible rise.
:10:20. > :10:23.War is a huge factor. 80% of today's humanitarian effort now goes on
:10:24. > :10:26.helping people displaced by long-term conflict rather than
:10:27. > :10:31.disasters. Despite being intended as a
:10:32. > :10:35.temporary status, the average time spent as a refugee is now 17 years.
:10:36. > :10:40.Someone displaced at the end of the last century is probably still
:10:41. > :10:45.unable to go home. And over 80% are refugees for over
:10:46. > :10:48.ten years. The movement of Syrians and others
:10:49. > :10:53.to Europe caused major political upheaval. But migrant and refugee
:10:54. > :10:58.numbers are much higher in countries next to warring neighbours.
:10:59. > :11:03.In 2015 the International Rescue Committee estimated that 60 million
:11:04. > :11:07.people in total are displaced around the world with 42,000 on the move
:11:08. > :11:11.everyday. The UN is gathering this month to
:11:12. > :11:16.talk about it but one major emergency charity has already pulled
:11:17. > :11:21.out. We no longer have any hope that the world humanitarian summit will
:11:22. > :11:25.address the weaknesses in humanitarian action and emergency
:11:26. > :11:28.response. For others the entire system of humanitarian aid has
:11:29. > :11:34.failed so badly it's time to rethink it completely.
:11:35. > :11:36.So any clues where the biggest refugee camp is?
:11:37. > :11:40.A camp, set up as a temporary measure 25 years ago,
:11:41. > :11:47.Kenya's government now wants to close it down.
:11:48. > :11:49.Dadaab, for many, symbolizes everything that's gone wrong.
:11:50. > :12:44.My name is Mohammed, I am leaving one of the camps. I was born here.
:12:45. > :12:51.What I know is only this camp. I wanted a better life than this one.
:12:52. > :12:54.I think my mother has lost hope of going back to Somalia because of
:12:55. > :13:00.this war. She tells me that we are expecting to stay some months, two
:13:01. > :13:05.months, one month and then we go back to our country. But months,
:13:06. > :13:15.years, years, years until we come here and up to now we are here. Also
:13:16. > :13:21.my born was born -- also, my wife was born here. We meet here and we
:13:22. > :13:26.got married and have a little baby girl we have now and we are
:13:27. > :13:34.expecting another one. You can imagine years living in a refugee
:13:35. > :13:39.camp. We don't know another place. We
:13:40. > :13:44.don't know our country, Somalia. We are just like a bird in a cage.
:13:45. > :14:18.Cannot move anywhere else. We are just imagining like we are
:14:19. > :14:24.Kenyans, because we don't know any other country. We are Somalis but we
:14:25. > :14:28.don't even know where Somalia is. If you ask me which direction Somalia
:14:29. > :14:49.is I cannot tell you. We are doing a hard job, we are
:14:50. > :14:52.working the same as Kenyans do here. We are earning less than 100 US
:14:53. > :14:56.dollars. We are not looking at the amount we are earning but we are
:14:57. > :15:01.looking at people we are helping. We are helping our mothers, our
:15:02. > :15:13.sisters, our children. What we are helping is our people.
:15:14. > :15:23.What will make me happiest in my life is seeing a different thing in
:15:24. > :15:28.my daughter and my children. A different life. I lose hope now, me.
:15:29. > :15:35.But what I am hoping is my children to get a better life than what I had
:15:36. > :15:41.in this refugee camp. Now she's new, she's only two years. But what I am
:15:42. > :15:49.expecting, or what I am praying to God to give me is my daughter to get
:15:50. > :15:50.a good life and a good and freedom, freedom is the most important thing
:15:51. > :15:56.in a human being. David Miliband, former
:15:57. > :15:57.British Foreign Secretary, now President of the
:15:58. > :16:00.International Rescue Committee, Does he have a solution
:16:01. > :16:04.to what's going on? I asked him if the current
:16:05. > :16:14.humanitarian system is up I think there is a massive issue
:16:15. > :16:17.that the post-war settlement has set up a set of institutions which were
:16:18. > :16:22.designed for yesterday's problems, not tomorrow's. There is frustration
:16:23. > :16:30.about the institutions of the UN in the way they work. But it's the last
:16:31. > :16:35.best hope. The refugee camp was set up in 1992, Dadaab, as a transit
:16:36. > :16:39.camp, I don't think anyone thought it would be going 25 years later.
:16:40. > :16:44.It's the most hellish transit camp you would imagine. Thousands of
:16:45. > :16:47.people, generations born there. In a way, a symptom of a humanitarian
:16:48. > :16:51.system that doesn't work. There needs to be a new deal really with
:16:52. > :16:56.countries like Kenya that says we understand that for you to house
:16:57. > :16:59.large numbers of refugees is delivering a global public good, but
:17:00. > :17:03.to do that effectively, to let people work, you are going to have
:17:04. > :17:06.to get international support and so the role of the World Bank and other
:17:07. > :17:10.institutions becomes absolutely vital to a new kind of bargain, not
:17:11. > :17:11.just with the refugees, but with countries like Kenya. What is that
:17:12. > :17:21.new deal, that bargain? President, I think it is not a small
:17:22. > :17:24.number of people, possibly 10% of the refugees, the most vulnerable,
:17:25. > :17:32.are relocated to richer countries, the West and elsewhere because they
:17:33. > :17:35.are orphans etc. The only real hope for the large majority of people is
:17:36. > :17:40.to become productive residents of the countries they have fled to.
:17:41. > :17:43.That is a massive call for the countries concerned. If we can
:17:44. > :17:50.ensure they get international support to build up their economies,
:17:51. > :17:54.it becomes a chance to avoid the kind of Dadaab situation, long-term
:17:55. > :17:59.housing people in places that become magnets for criminality, never mind
:18:00. > :18:03.for terrorism. I want to look at your solution, state saying you are
:18:04. > :18:09.not refugees any more, you are citizens? Well, I think I use the
:18:10. > :18:12.word productive residents. At the moment come I think we are stuck in
:18:13. > :18:16.a situation where refugees are seen as only a burden. While they are not
:18:17. > :18:21.allowed to work, you can see why people think that. Should we be
:18:22. > :18:24.saying that in the UK, should we be welcoming Syrians in greater numbers
:18:25. > :18:31.and saying those people will come and they will work? I think so. At
:18:32. > :18:35.the moment... How many? We are in a situation where the UK has committed
:18:36. > :18:40.to accept six Syrians per Parliamentary constituency. I was
:18:41. > :18:44.saying if they were taking 25,000 Syrians a year, that would translate
:18:45. > :18:48.into 40 per parliamentary constituency. That is not go to
:18:49. > :18:51.overwhelm the system. Do you think Angela Merkel was on the right track
:18:52. > :18:57.when she said she was going to open her doors to 1 million people? Yes,
:18:58. > :19:00.because there were already 500,000 Syrians in Germany when she made her
:19:01. > :19:04.pledge. The problem is, there were two things missing from the
:19:05. > :19:08.commitment that she made. One was, how do we have more effective action
:19:09. > :19:12.in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan, so that those countries are able to
:19:13. > :19:17.support people better? Secondly, she needed more support from the rest of
:19:18. > :19:20.Europe. The danger is that it divides Europe. Is your message to
:19:21. > :19:25.the British public get used to it, this is going to have to happen? My
:19:26. > :19:30.message is that there is a choice. Either refugees come to Europe in a
:19:31. > :19:35.disorderly, illegal and dangerous way, or they come to Europe in an
:19:36. > :19:41.orderly, legal and organised fashion. The latter is far, far
:19:42. > :19:45.preferable. The sight of thousands of people dying in the Mediterranean
:19:46. > :19:49.is something that I think Paul's everybody. What people I think in
:19:50. > :19:57.Britain want to see is compassion. But also competence. -- that appals
:19:58. > :20:01.everybody. When you have 80% of people in this kind of XL for more
:20:02. > :20:06.than a decade, do you think the UN is still the best body and
:20:07. > :20:13.organisation for solving this, or dealing with it? I think our two
:20:14. > :20:18.reactions to the complicated and crazy world we live in. One is to
:20:19. > :20:21.think that the problems are insoluble, places like the Congo
:20:22. > :20:26.have not been solved for years, God knows how they will be solved. The
:20:27. > :20:31.other is let's take the steps, one at a time. The UN is at a critical
:20:32. > :20:36.juncture. There are record numbers fleeing conflict, this is when the
:20:37. > :20:40.UN has to have the strength to reform itself, as well as to call on
:20:41. > :20:44.others to reform. There is a sense for many that something is broken.
:20:45. > :20:49.People feel they never stop giving to charities and causes, they are
:20:50. > :20:53.being asked to open their homes and countries to people. And yet the
:20:54. > :20:58.scale of the problem is overwhelming. You can't just point
:20:59. > :21:03.to the Syrian war, you have to say there is a fundamental problem with
:21:04. > :21:09.how we define refugees, or how we attempt to approach and solve the
:21:10. > :21:12.problem. I think people are feeling like the problem might be too big
:21:13. > :21:16.for them to do anything. That is why what is missing is a plan. The plan
:21:17. > :21:21.has got to be about the limited numbers that are going to be
:21:22. > :21:24.relocated to richer countries, and the big new effort that is going to
:21:25. > :21:28.take place in the countries that are hosting refugees, which are on the
:21:29. > :21:33.borders of countries at civil war, not countries in Europe, and frankly
:21:34. > :21:37.not the US either. We need a new deal that recognises these are
:21:38. > :21:41.long-term problems that need a economic and social solution. The
:21:42. > :21:45.campus-based, temporary relief is not going to be the way of the
:21:46. > :21:48.future. The way of the future is get these people into work, get their
:21:49. > :21:52.kids and education, make them parts of society, and it is up to the
:21:53. > :21:56.countries concerned if they become citizens, get them into a position
:21:57. > :22:02.where they can go back if the war ever ends. Do you think a Trump
:22:03. > :22:05.presidency could make the world safer? I obviously can't get into
:22:06. > :22:12.the ins and outs, the left and right of American political debate. What I
:22:13. > :22:16.do reflect on is the new toxicity of issues associated with refugees in
:22:17. > :22:19.the US. It is all the more striking, because I work less than two miles
:22:20. > :22:23.from the Statue of Liberty, which says bring me your poor and huddled
:22:24. > :22:29.masses. The DNA of the US is about welcoming people from all over the
:22:30. > :22:32.world. Thank you. A big idea, but could work in practice?
:22:33. > :22:35.Jordan's proximity to Syria and Iraq has made it a first port of call
:22:36. > :22:44.It now hosts 1.2 million refugees - 10% of its own
:22:45. > :22:49.The refugee crisis costs $2.5 billion a year, or 6% of its GDP.
:22:50. > :22:52.Dr Mohammed El Momani is a Jordanian Minister of State.
:22:53. > :23:04.Thank you for joining us. Is it realistic to say that you are no
:23:05. > :23:09.longer refugees, you are now residents, you can go and work?
:23:10. > :23:16.Look, it depends on the case. In a country like Jordan, for example, we
:23:17. > :23:21.have an unemployment rate of 13%. So, we don't have jobs to give to
:23:22. > :23:25.refugees to begin with. That is why, through the London compact, we
:23:26. > :23:31.discussed with our European friends and international communities,
:23:32. > :23:38.possibilities of creating jobs and then, of course, anybody can take
:23:39. > :23:43.these jobs. I guess if a country, a host country, does have enough jobs
:23:44. > :23:46.to offer to anyone, yes, they can use refugees to take these jobs and
:23:47. > :23:50.to make better living for their lives. In fact, it would be good for
:23:51. > :23:57.the economy of the host country, as well as for the refugees to improve
:23:58. > :24:05.their studies. Now, for refugees who do not work, we have to provide for
:24:06. > :24:12.their education, health, for all of their needs. So, if they end up
:24:13. > :24:16.getting a job, maybe they can help themselves in the background and in
:24:17. > :24:20.return, the economy will benefit. What do you make of the plan of
:24:21. > :24:24.ending refugee camps and letting refugees stay, become residents and
:24:25. > :24:28.workers? I think the most important thing for us is that we should be
:24:29. > :24:35.able to help refugees in different ways and shapes. Providing them some
:24:36. > :24:41.services through refugee camps still a feasible thing. In Jordan, we have
:24:42. > :24:48.experience with 1.3 million Syrian refugees. In fact, 90% of those live
:24:49. > :24:51.outside refugee camps. We have 140,000 Syrian students in our
:24:52. > :24:56.school system, which puts tremendous pressure on the schooling system in
:24:57. > :25:00.Jordan. Some schools had to go back to a two shift system in order to
:25:01. > :25:04.accommodate this large number of Syrians. Hundreds of thousands of
:25:05. > :25:08.Syrians have visited our hospitals and medical centres in order to get
:25:09. > :25:13.proper health care. So, this is exactly what we're doing in Jordan.
:25:14. > :25:16.That is why we are getting of these components, I guess, and support
:25:17. > :25:23.from the international community, because the way that we dealt with
:25:24. > :25:25.this humanitarian crisis has been, I think, an example to be followed.
:25:26. > :25:35.Thank you very much for joining us. For the first time ever, the World
:25:36. > :25:39.Bank has a leader that does not come from politics or business.
:25:40. > :25:48.He is the medical doctor who once called for the banks to be
:25:49. > :25:53.abolished, now he runs it. Set up alongside the IMF, the World Bank's
:25:54. > :26:05.focus is ending poverty. By tradition, it is run by an American.
:26:06. > :26:11.Born in Korea and raised in Iowa, he was put forward by President Obama.
:26:12. > :26:15.He once argued that give session with GDP growth cast human beings
:26:16. > :26:16.aside, and in office he has been a radical and deeply controversial
:26:17. > :26:27.reformer. Jim Yong Kim, you are a medic, you
:26:28. > :26:32.have 60 million displaced people around the world. What is your
:26:33. > :26:36.prognosis and what is your cure? As a medical doctor, one of the things
:26:37. > :26:39.we know is that prevention is always better than cure. I would step back
:26:40. > :26:44.and say, we have been reacting after the fact. We have been emergency
:26:45. > :26:48.room doctors that respond to the carnage that comes in. What we need
:26:49. > :26:52.to be our thoughtful people that think about the whole system and try
:26:53. > :26:55.to prevent it from happening in the first place. Would you say that you
:26:56. > :27:01.are putting the World Bank on a totally different track, really? We
:27:02. > :27:05.are really now thinking in a completely different way. We have
:27:06. > :27:08.found ourselves in the middle of all of the discussions about
:27:09. > :27:13.humanitarian response, because we understand that a lot of it is
:27:14. > :27:16.development focused. The demand really came from the humanitarian
:27:17. > :27:23.community itself. The former High Commissioner for refugees, Antonio
:27:24. > :27:28.Gutierrez, came to me and said these humanitarian emergencies last for so
:27:29. > :27:32.long. Some people have put it as high as 15 years plus. He told me
:27:33. > :27:34.that we don't really know what we're doing, we are not development
:27:35. > :27:38.specialists, you guys have to be involved. If you are looking at
:27:39. > :27:41.prevention, rather than cure, take us back to Iraq and Syria. What
:27:42. > :27:48.would have been should have been done differently there? I wasn't
:27:49. > :27:53.there with the start of hostilities. But I can tell you what, we had no
:27:54. > :27:57.system where, throughout the UN system, the World Bank system, the
:27:58. > :28:02.humanitarian organisations, where we sat down, compared notes and say,
:28:03. > :28:06.can we agree where the high-risk areas are? We never share that
:28:07. > :28:10.information. We should keep ourselves accountable to being able
:28:11. > :28:12.to look around corners a little bit, to look upstream. When there is a
:28:13. > :28:15.situation we know we should intervene in, let's find a way to
:28:16. > :28:19.intervene, in a way that will make it more likely that there will be
:28:20. > :28:26.peace, there will be stability, there will be prosperity and growth.
:28:27. > :28:28.After World War II, Bretton Woods essentially established an
:28:29. > :28:33.infrastructure that was meant to solve these kind of development
:28:34. > :28:39.issues. You look at where we are now, 60 million displaced people,
:28:40. > :28:46.conflicts, wars, all of the rest of it. There is clearly an
:28:47. > :28:50.acknowledgement that the institutions are not working? I
:28:51. > :28:53.think that the realisation we have come to is understanding that we are
:28:54. > :29:00.probably not reaching the scale that we need to reach. The funding that
:29:01. > :29:04.comes from governments is mostly ground-based, which is great, but it
:29:05. > :29:08.is only $140 billion or so a year, not nearly enough to meet the needs
:29:09. > :29:15.in the world. So, the question we ask his, what is the scale needed to
:29:16. > :29:18.really turn the tide on forced displacement, extremism, on violent
:29:19. > :29:24.extremism. Are the institutions we have got up to that job, or are they
:29:25. > :29:27.an anachronism? I think albeit institutions together, if we were to
:29:28. > :29:34.work together much more closely, we could get the job done. That is one
:29:35. > :29:37.thing we are exploring right now. There is already talking many
:29:38. > :29:41.development circles about the need for another Marshall plan, that
:29:42. > :29:45.everything we been doing has been not intense enough, not enough
:29:46. > :29:49.upstream, and not a great enough scale. I don't know that we would
:29:50. > :29:53.want to create new institutions. I think what we really need to do, and
:29:54. > :29:58.what we are hearing from leaders all over the world, is an insistence
:29:59. > :30:01.that the great multilateral agencies work together. You were the one that
:30:02. > :30:11.famously called for the abolition of the World Bank. As President now, do
:30:12. > :30:17.the same things irk you, or have you ripped up the old model? When I was
:30:18. > :30:21.part of the movement in 1994, the bank was very focused on GDP growth.
:30:22. > :30:25.Our complaint at that time was that things like investing in health and
:30:26. > :30:30.education should not be afterthoughts. All of the good
:30:31. > :30:34.things that people need, health, education, social protection, these
:30:35. > :30:38.things don't happen automatically with GDP growth. That was really our
:30:39. > :30:44.very specific critique. Over the past 20 years, the bank has changed
:30:45. > :30:47.completely. Now we are among the most vociferous advocates of
:30:48. > :30:51.investing in health and education. Except your critics will say that,
:30:52. > :30:57.actually, that is not what the World Bank should be doing, that you have
:30:58. > :31:01.turned it into an NGO? There's nothing we do at the World Bank
:31:02. > :31:04.group that we have not thought about deeply in terms of evidence. Let me
:31:05. > :31:08.give you some. For a long time, people said health, this is about,
:31:09. > :31:15.you know, charitable outreach to individual sick people. In
:31:16. > :31:19.developing countries, from 2000-2011, 24% of what you call full
:31:20. > :31:24.income growth, not just growth in GDP, but in people's ability to
:31:25. > :31:28.participate in the economy, 24% was due to better health outcomes. We
:31:29. > :31:33.now know, for certain, that investing in health is directly
:31:34. > :31:37.connected to economic growth. When you talk about investing, do you
:31:38. > :31:41.think the World Bank has a role in telling developing countries how to
:31:42. > :31:45.spend the money that is coming into them? It is to be that we were quite
:31:46. > :31:49.ideological. We had very specific beliefs about what countries should
:31:50. > :31:53.do and we just didn't have the evidence base to back it up. At the
:31:54. > :31:57.World Bank, we have really, really made an effort to move beyond
:31:58. > :32:01.ideology. We are not saying do this because Ideologically... It's not
:32:02. > :32:06.just about ideology, do you attach conditions, do you want to see
:32:07. > :32:14.certain specific outcomes from a country when you landed money? When
:32:15. > :32:19.you say conditions, it is as we arbitrarily put conditions on to the
:32:20. > :32:22.money. I was against that. I was against that when we were protesting
:32:23. > :32:25.the World Bank. The good news is that there is a lot more data and
:32:26. > :32:27.evidence now. Thank you very much indeed.
:32:28. > :32:29.Could world peace start with a train line?
:32:30. > :32:32.Could a new approach to urban planning solve the intractable
:32:33. > :32:36.In Think Again, we ask film-makers to put forward a completely
:32:37. > :32:54.the Middle East, older people will tell you about a time when it was
:32:55. > :32:59.possible to have breakfast in Beirut, lunch in Damascus and dinner
:33:00. > :33:10.in Baghdad. But, alas, that was in the past. 100 years ago, colonial
:33:11. > :33:14.powers signed an agreement which established borders ending the era
:33:15. > :33:19.of free travel across the Levant. Here is my idea. The mega linear
:33:20. > :33:22.city. How can we make cities along the east Mediterranean coast more
:33:23. > :33:29.socially and economic connected? Europe has done it. Imagine this. A
:33:30. > :33:36.fast train network that extends from Turkey to Egypt, and back...
:33:37. > :33:40.Because, you know, the trains have to come back. It cuts down travel
:33:41. > :33:46.times and costs across the region. The idea is to transform the region
:33:47. > :33:50.from poorly connected cities to an integrated urban network. Think of
:33:51. > :33:54.it as a mega linear city. This may sound far-fetched, but is not
:33:55. > :34:00.entirely inconceivable. This developer and has already started in
:34:01. > :34:07.Lebanon. Almost half of the coast is now one continuous urban strip. It
:34:08. > :34:10.can be an inspiration for what is possible, like the possibility of
:34:11. > :34:12.having breakfast in Alexandria, lunch in Beirut and dinner in
:34:13. > :34:14.Antalya. For decades Cubans have been fleeing
:34:15. > :34:17.the austerity of their homeland Castro's exiles were even granted
:34:18. > :34:20.favourable immigration status in the United States under a law
:34:21. > :34:25.called the Cuban Adjustment Act. But now the US and Cuba are amigos -
:34:26. > :34:29.which may see the act repealed. Thousands of Cubans are now trying
:34:30. > :34:32.to make to America before This Week's World followed some
:34:33. > :36:59.of them on their journey. We need to have a policy that's fair
:37:00. > :37:04.to everybody trying to get into the United States. All we are saying is
:37:05. > :37:10.treat the Cubans like any other immigrant that comes into the United
:37:11. > :37:12.States. Don't elevate them to this special preferential type of
:37:13. > :38:20.treatment. Treat them on a case by case basis.
:38:21. > :38:30.And for the politicos amongst you who wondered why I didn't ask
:38:31. > :38:33.David Miliband about Labour's high octane controversy, the Tooting
:38:34. > :38:35.by-election and rumours he might work for Hillary Clinton,
:38:36. > :38:41.Look, I am really not going to get into... If I become a commentator on
:38:42. > :38:44.national politics I have a funny feeling as to what might be the
:38:45. > :38:48.clips that come out of this. OK. We didn't get that. Are you going to
:38:49. > :38:53.rule out quickly for me a Tooting by-election? I am not ruling out...
:38:54. > :38:57.What I have to be is disciplined. Could you imagine working in Hillary
:38:58. > :39:01.Clinton's administration? I am a British citizen not an American
:39:02. > :39:08.citizen. You are being - Approach this. No, I am not running - I am
:39:09. > :39:12.running an NGO, not running for parliament. I would like to see you
:39:13. > :39:16.make that logical link. Quickfire quickly. Ask it again and I will not
:39:17. > :39:27.answer it again so... I find that quite hard.
:39:28. > :39:28.Your emotions are quite flat. I do notice that things annoy
:39:29. > :39:28.you more. There haven't been
:39:29. > :39:30.sort of personality changes? There's definite changes. Especially
:39:31. > :39:35.on the emotional side of it.