0:00:13 > 0:00:15Hello and welcome to Thursday in Parliament,
0:00:15 > 0:00:17our look at the best of the day
0:00:17 > 0:00:18in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:18 > 0:00:19On this programme...
0:00:19 > 0:00:21Leave the monarch out of
0:00:21 > 0:00:28the great European debate, say Labour...
0:00:28 > 0:00:31So I say lay off the queen and think again.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33A police investigation into the sex abuse claims made
0:00:33 > 0:00:36against Sir Edward Heath is condemned in the House of Lords...
0:00:36 > 0:00:39It seems as if the Wiltshire Police are allocating to themselves
0:00:39 > 0:00:42the role not only of investigator, but also of prosecutor and judge
0:00:42 > 0:00:47and jury, in this matter.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49And criticism of the person appointed to referee
0:00:49 > 0:00:54the relationship between pub-owning companies and tied tenants...
0:00:54 > 0:00:57It's a crass and a complicit and a clueless appointment
0:00:57 > 0:01:04and it needs now to be properly scrutinised by this house.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06But first, the Leader of the Commons, Chris Grayling,
0:01:06 > 0:01:08has told MPs the next Session of Parliament will start before
0:01:08 > 0:01:10the EU Referendum is held in June.
0:01:10 > 0:01:17The State Opening and Queen's Speech will be on Wednesday 18th May.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20The announcement ends the mounting speculation that the new session
0:01:20 > 0:01:22was being made to wait for the referendum campaign
0:01:22 > 0:01:25to be completed.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28Labour's Chris Bryant said having the State Opening ahead
0:01:28 > 0:01:30of the referendum was a mistake.
0:01:30 > 0:01:38Well, Mr Speaker, can I start by informing the house
0:01:38 > 0:01:41that the State Opening of the next session of Parliament will take
0:01:41 > 0:01:42place on Wednesday 18th May.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45Parliament is to have an extra recess in the two weeks
0:01:45 > 0:01:46before the referendum.
0:01:46 > 0:01:55Members will wish to know that, additionally, the house will rise
0:01:55 > 0:01:58at the conclusion of business on Wednesday 15th June and return
0:01:58 > 0:01:59on Monday 27th June.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02But I have to say that the decision to hold the Queen's Speech
0:02:02 > 0:02:03on 18th May is a profound mistake.
0:02:03 > 0:02:04Whatever the Government's intentions,
0:02:04 > 0:02:05they will be misconstrued.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08We have already seen that the Brexit campaign are now so desperate
0:02:08 > 0:02:11that they are even trying to recruit members of the royal family
0:02:11 > 0:02:13to their cause.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16So I say lay off the queen and think again.
0:02:16 > 0:02:20Incidentally, I note that the leader is giving a Brexit speech today.
0:02:20 > 0:02:21We are all agog.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23Did he have to get approval for his speech
0:02:23 > 0:02:28from the Prime Minister?
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Or from the actual leader of the Out campaign,
0:02:30 > 0:02:31the Justice Secretary?
0:02:31 > 0:02:35And can he guarantee that his special advisers were not
0:02:35 > 0:02:38involved in briefing the papers on the speech and won't be
0:02:38 > 0:02:40attending his speech, as the Cabinet Secretary has
0:02:40 > 0:02:42explicitly instructed that special advisers may not
0:02:42 > 0:02:45do so during office hours.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48Or is the Leader of the House being forced to make this speech
0:02:48 > 0:02:49under cover of darkness?
0:02:49 > 0:02:52The Shadow Leader went on about the Queen's Speech.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55I have to say, I really don't quite understand what he's talking about.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57One moment he's talking about a zombie parliament,
0:02:57 > 0:02:59with nothing to do.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02Now he is complaining we are going to have a Queen's Speech in May,
0:03:02 > 0:03:05when we have another important set of measures to bring
0:03:05 > 0:03:06forward that will help reform this country.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08The Shadow Leader asked about the speech
0:03:08 > 0:03:09I'm going to be giving today.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11What he missed is that I've already given it,
0:03:11 > 0:03:13so he clearly wasn't paying that much attention.
0:03:13 > 0:03:14SHOUTING
0:03:14 > 0:03:20Surprisingly enough, I'm not after his support.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23Mr Speaker, the big issue of the day is whether her Majesty
0:03:23 > 0:03:26is a Brexitee or not.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29I've got an elegant solution about how we try to cover this.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31We could perhaps dispatch the Prime Minister to the palace
0:03:31 > 0:03:32to ask her indirectly.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36One purr for in. Two purrs for out.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39That way we would solve that problem.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Yesterday, the Government were defeated...
0:03:42 > 0:03:45Order.
0:03:45 > 0:03:46I hesitate to interrupt the honourable gentleman,
0:03:46 > 0:03:48but he said what he said.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51But, for the benefit of the house, particularly for the benefit
0:03:51 > 0:03:59of new members, can I just underlines we do not discuss
0:03:59 > 0:04:02the views of the monarch in this chamber.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04There have occasionally been debates on matters pertaining to the royal
0:04:04 > 0:04:06family, which I have very happily granted,
0:04:06 > 0:04:08but we do not discuss that matter.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10And I think it's better if we just leave it there.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12The Speaker, John Bercow, setting out the rules.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15A former top civil servant has made a strong attack on the
0:04:15 > 0:04:18police inquiry into the allegations of sexual abuse that have been
0:04:18 > 0:04:20levelled against the former Conservative Prime Minister
0:04:20 > 0:04:25Sir Edward Heath, who died ten years ago.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28Lord Armstrong, one of Sir Edward's closest advisers in Downing Street,
0:04:28 > 0:04:32called the investigation being carried out by Wiltshire Police
0:04:32 > 0:04:34a "travesty of justice, and a prodigious waste
0:04:34 > 0:04:37"of police time and resources".
0:04:37 > 0:04:39His comments came at House of Lords questions.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43First, a veteran Labour peer raised the issue of whether it's right that
0:04:43 > 0:04:48accusers of serious crimes can remain anonymous...
0:04:48 > 0:04:58My Lords, should we now not be considering the reform of the law
0:04:58 > 0:05:00which allows someone like this man, Nick,
0:05:00 > 0:05:02who, hiding behind a wall of anonymity, makes allegations
0:05:02 > 0:05:11of a sexual nature against reputable public figures,
0:05:11 > 0:05:15such as Lord Bramall, the late Lord Brittan and Mr Edward Heath,
0:05:15 > 0:05:18the former Prime Minister, and others, with not a shred
0:05:18 > 0:05:19of forensic or corroborative evidence, whatsoever.
0:05:19 > 0:05:27It is simply unjust.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30And isn't it now time the whole issue of anonymity for the accused,
0:05:30 > 0:05:37and, in particular the defence of the falsely accused,
0:05:37 > 0:05:41was put back on the national agenda and considered here in Parliament?
0:05:41 > 0:05:44My lords, I am sure the noble lord will accept that this
0:05:44 > 0:05:52is a very delicate issue.
0:05:52 > 0:05:54Making a complaint should not be discouraged.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57It is no easy thing to make a complaint about, for example,
0:05:57 > 0:05:57rape or sexual offences.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00And the possibility that not only you are going to be cross-examined
0:06:00 > 0:06:03and introduced in court, but also have your name emblazoned
0:06:03 > 0:06:05on newspapers or other means of communication,
0:06:05 > 0:06:11is a considerable inhibition in making that complaint.
0:06:11 > 0:06:13And that is one of the difficult factors Parliament took into account
0:06:13 > 0:06:17when deciding to retain anonymity.
0:06:17 > 0:06:18Armstrong. Armstrong.
0:06:18 > 0:06:22Armstrong.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25My Lords, I have stated elsewhere the reasons for my conviction that
0:06:25 > 0:06:35Sir Edward Heath was not a child abuser.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37The allegations that have been published in the media to that
0:06:37 > 0:06:39effect have no shred of credible corroboration.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43My lords, the Wiltshire Police are, however,
0:06:43 > 0:06:45conducting an investigation, which is forecast to last
0:06:45 > 0:06:55for 12 months or more.
0:06:55 > 0:06:57It involves interviewing an extensive range of Sir Edward's
0:06:57 > 0:06:59friends, colleagues, staff and former crew members.
0:06:59 > 0:07:07And searching through 4,500 boxes of his archives.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10I have suggested to the Chief Constable of Wiltshire Police
0:07:10 > 0:07:15that there can be no conclusive satisfactory outcome
0:07:15 > 0:07:22to this investigation.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24Even if, as seems likely, they find there is insufficient
0:07:24 > 0:07:27evidence, to have justified a prosecution, the cloud
0:07:27 > 0:07:31of suspicion, which has been high over Sir Edward's memory would not
0:07:31 > 0:07:36be definitively dispelled.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38In the unlikely event that a finding comes that there is sufficient
0:07:38 > 0:07:42evidence, that evidence could not be tested in a court of law,
0:07:42 > 0:07:47because Sir Edward is dead and cannot be prosecuted.
0:07:47 > 0:07:55It seems as if the Wiltshire Police are allocating to themselves
0:07:55 > 0:07:58the role not only of investigator, but also a prosecutor and judge
0:07:58 > 0:08:03and jury in this matter.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06Does not the noble lord, the Minister, agree
0:08:06 > 0:08:08that the investigation is a travesty of justice and a prodigious waste
0:08:09 > 0:08:13of police time and resources?
0:08:13 > 0:08:16I am sure that there will be a lot of sympathy around the house
0:08:16 > 0:08:19and elsewhere for what the noble lord says.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22We must not, of course, interfere with
0:08:22 > 0:08:23police operational independence.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26However, the point that he eloquently makes
0:08:26 > 0:08:30about the proportionality, in view of the death of Sir Edward,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33and the amount of the likelihood that there is any significant
0:08:33 > 0:08:37evidence one way or another, being unearthed at this stage
0:08:37 > 0:08:39are valuable points and I take them.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43Isn't it quite clear that the present system
0:08:43 > 0:08:46of protecting the innocent from having their names
0:08:46 > 0:08:50plastered all over the media, that that system has broken down.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53And doesn't justice require that the Government takes a
0:08:53 > 0:09:01fresh look at this whole issue and not just leave it to the police?
0:09:01 > 0:09:04At the moment, as the noble lord will appreciate,
0:09:04 > 0:09:06this is a matter for the police,
0:09:06 > 0:09:10who have considered that it is only in exceptional circumstances that it
0:09:10 > 0:09:13would be appropriate to name suspects.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15And, sometimes, it is true that by naming a suspect,
0:09:15 > 0:09:18it has provoked some people who have kept quiet about allegations,
0:09:18 > 0:09:22for fear that they will not be believed against a prominent public
0:09:22 > 0:09:32members of the establishment, as they are so-called.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35I do accept, however, his point and clearly it is a matter
0:09:35 > 0:09:38that any government would be anxious to consider in weighing up this very
0:09:38 > 0:09:45difficult conflicting issues.
0:09:45 > 0:09:46Lord Faulks.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48The Government's first pub adjudicator cannot be trusted
0:09:48 > 0:09:50to remain impartial because of his links to large pub companies,
0:09:50 > 0:09:52or "pubcos", the Commons has heard.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54The Liberal Democrat Greg Mulholland described the appointment process
0:09:54 > 0:10:01of Paul Newby as "extremely dubious".
0:10:01 > 0:10:03The Adjudicator will govern the relationship between large
0:10:03 > 0:10:05pub-owning businesses and their tied tenants in England and Wales.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09The Business Minister, Anna Soubry, strongly defended the appointment.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14Paul Newby is a chartered surveyor, he has particular expertise
0:10:14 > 0:10:18in valuation and arbitration, key skills
0:10:18 > 0:10:20for the Pub Code Adjudicator.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23He has 30 years experience of the pub trade, working with pub
0:10:23 > 0:10:27company landlords and pub tenants.
0:10:27 > 0:10:31I think he is going to be an excellent Pub Code Adjudicator.
0:10:31 > 0:10:32Mr Greg Mulholland.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35Thank you, Mr Speaker.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38I'm afraid that is not a view shared by tenants groups who have been
0:10:38 > 0:10:41absolutely astonished at this appointment.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45Let's be clear, Mr Speaker, this appointment is of someone
0:10:45 > 0:10:48who is the director of a company that derives the majority
0:10:48 > 0:10:51of its income from the very companies the legislation
0:10:51 > 0:10:52is intended to regulate.
0:10:52 > 0:10:58His CV says in his own words, he has - and I quote -
0:10:58 > 0:11:01"Been engaged by numerous managed and tenanted pubcos on rent review
0:11:01 > 0:11:03"matters and, in the last five years in particular,
0:11:03 > 0:11:06"has acted for Enterprise Inns Marston's and Punch".
0:11:06 > 0:11:10Right now, the very companies he is acting for now,
0:11:10 > 0:11:12currently, are bullying and coercing tenants into signing
0:11:12 > 0:11:14away their rights or forfeiting pubs.
0:11:14 > 0:11:19And his company are actively involved in selling off pubs.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22How can he possibly be trusted to be impartial,
0:11:22 > 0:11:26given his salary has been dependent for 20 years on those he must now
0:11:26 > 0:11:30adjudicate and potentially impose financial penalties on?
0:11:30 > 0:11:32There is a clear conflict-of-interest,
0:11:32 > 0:11:35which appears to render this process, at the very least,
0:11:35 > 0:11:39extremely dubious.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41He concluded...
0:11:41 > 0:11:45It is crass and a complicit and a clueless appointment
0:11:45 > 0:11:47and it needs now to be properly scrutinised by this house.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50Minister.
0:11:50 > 0:11:54I have to say, I think that was an absolutely disgraceful
0:11:54 > 0:11:57set of slurs and I would appreciate it if the honourable gentleman
0:11:57 > 0:12:05would be good enough to listen.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08Paul Newby was appointed absolutely in accordance with the usual ways
0:12:08 > 0:12:09of public appointments.
0:12:09 > 0:12:14And I take very grave exception to any allegation that either me
0:12:14 > 0:12:24or anybody else has acted, in any way, improperly, or complicity.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29Mr Newby hasn't just represented, as I said, pub trade companies,
0:12:29 > 0:12:34but also tenants.
0:12:34 > 0:12:41He has 30 years of experience, effectively representing both sides.
0:12:41 > 0:12:43But Labour said tenants wouldn't be reassured
0:12:43 > 0:12:49by what the Minister had said...
0:12:49 > 0:12:52The challenge for Mr Newby will be in ensuring a level playing field
0:12:52 > 0:12:53between tenants and pubcos.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57How does she think he will be able to do that, given those concerns
0:12:57 > 0:12:58that have been raised by tenants?
0:12:58 > 0:13:01There is a very real danger that someone who has acted
0:13:01 > 0:13:04for Punch Taverns, Enterprise Inns and Marston's, will be seen
0:13:04 > 0:13:07as continuing to act on their behalf and the Minister must be aware
0:13:07 > 0:13:10of this very real concern, as she sits there,
0:13:10 > 0:13:13chuntering, as normal.
0:13:13 > 0:13:18Thank you, Mr Speaker.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20I very much welcome the Government action on this issue,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24as someone who represents a number of pubs that I have dealt with over
0:13:24 > 0:13:26the years, who have had problems with the large pub companies
0:13:26 > 0:13:27that own them.
0:13:27 > 0:13:31Does she not agree with me that, in appointing a fair and experienced
0:13:31 > 0:13:33adjudicator, it is important that we appoint someone
0:13:33 > 0:13:35who understands both sides of the argument and,
0:13:35 > 0:13:36therefore, can adjudicate fairly between them?
0:13:36 > 0:13:38I absolutely agree. That is the joy of Mr Newby.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42Not only is he a chartered surveyor, with all that brings to the job,
0:13:42 > 0:13:43but he has this ability to...
0:13:43 > 0:13:45He is a very experienced arbitrator.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47But it is his knowledge from both sides,
0:13:47 > 0:13:49and I know that he will be fair.
0:13:49 > 0:13:50I have complete confidence in him.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52He is very good news.
0:13:52 > 0:13:54Can I echo the sentiments that the pub really is
0:13:54 > 0:13:56at the heart of many communities,
0:13:56 > 0:13:57particularly in smaller towns and villages.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00I am really hoping that the appointment of Paul Newby
0:14:00 > 0:14:03will normalise many of these relationships and we don't see,
0:14:03 > 0:14:07particularly in the case of a pub near me, The Chequer Inn in Ash,
0:14:07 > 0:14:09which suffered, I think, under an overbearing pub company,
0:14:09 > 0:14:18where you get new tenants tempted in, running well,
0:14:18 > 0:14:20but then the prices escalate until they are forced
0:14:20 > 0:14:21to collapse and close.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23And then we see planning applications for alternative use.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25I am hoping this will normalise those relationships.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27Minister.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29I absolutely couldn't agree more.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32And actually it's that very change of culture that is so important.
0:14:32 > 0:14:34I completely agree with the honourable gentleman.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36We have all had examples in our own constituency.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41I, too, have fought to keep open pubs.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43I have to say, unfortunately, I haven't been successful
0:14:43 > 0:14:45in one instance. But I was in another one.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47But, yes, it is about changing the atmosphere.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50And about making sure that pubcos act in a sensible
0:14:50 > 0:14:55and responsible manner.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59Not just to their tied tenants, but also to broader communities.
0:14:59 > 0:14:59Anna Soubry.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons
0:15:02 > 0:15:03and the Lords.
0:15:03 > 0:15:08Still to come: Is it time to privatise Network Rail?
0:15:08 > 0:15:11Now, who should have the final say over the future of the BBC?
0:15:11 > 0:15:13The Government is expected to reveal its proposals
0:15:13 > 0:15:15for the future of the organisation in the coming weeks,
0:15:15 > 0:15:19with the BBC charter due for renewal at the end of this year.
0:15:19 > 0:15:23In a Lords debate, a former Conservative Cabinet minister said
0:15:23 > 0:15:26decisions on the BBC's future should be taken out of the hands
0:15:26 > 0:15:29of the Government.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33My Lords, we must find a better way of debating serious issues in this
0:15:33 > 0:15:35House, like the future of the BBC.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39One minute speeches are frankly ridiculous, but perhaps it
0:15:39 > 0:15:42illustrates the fundamental defect in the Royal Charter process.
0:15:42 > 0:15:46The Royal Charter may sound very grand, but what it means is that
0:15:46 > 0:15:48none of the government's proposals come to Parliament for decision.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51If we are serious about the independence of the BBC
0:15:51 > 0:15:55we should scrap the charter, set up the BBC as a statutory
0:15:55 > 0:15:58corporation and resolve that no government shall be allowed alone
0:15:58 > 0:16:03to determine the future of the BBC.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06In other words, this would be a matter for Parliament after proper
0:16:06 > 0:16:10debate without the 60 second speaking clock.
0:16:10 > 0:16:15Around 25% has been abstracted from the BBC's programme budget
0:16:15 > 0:16:18with no national debate whatsoever.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20We rightly condemned totally, my Lords, but this is our
0:16:20 > 0:16:23constitutional outrage and it simply must be put right.
0:16:23 > 0:16:31Changes to the BBC's mandate must now be agreed by Parliament.
0:16:31 > 0:16:35The setting of the licence fee must now follow a rigorous
0:16:35 > 0:16:39and considered process.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Lord Fowler is right, it is time now, my Lords,
0:16:41 > 0:16:44to place the BBC on a statutory footing.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48My Lords, the BBC, as well as being so popular with the British public,
0:16:48 > 0:16:51plays a hugely important role in promoting the UK around
0:16:51 > 0:16:55the world, and at home is a crucial part in our democracy
0:16:55 > 0:16:58and wider society.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01It is vital that it maintains its independence,
0:17:01 > 0:17:04its ability to inform, educate and entertain and,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07we believe, it's licence fee.
0:17:07 > 0:17:11But to quote the chair of the BBC Trust, "Charter review hangs over
0:17:11 > 0:17:15the BBC a cloud of uncertainty and unease."
0:17:15 > 0:17:18My Lords, I am concerned that the charter and its funding
0:17:18 > 0:17:20seem to have become separated.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23I share the Noble Lady, Lady Bonham-Carter's concern
0:17:23 > 0:17:26about the BBC taking on the burden of the over 75s licence fee.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29I fear that the funds that are supposed to replace it
0:17:29 > 0:17:30will not be forthcoming.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33On top of that, people are failing to pay the licence fee.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37There is going to be a ?150 million shortfall by the end of the year
0:17:37 > 0:17:38in its payment.
0:17:38 > 0:17:40The Digital Licence is supposed to help close the loophole
0:17:40 > 0:17:42of digital viewers not paying the license fee,
0:17:42 > 0:17:46but I fear that will no way compensate for the increasing
0:17:46 > 0:17:48shortfall as the new generation of viewers look elsewhere
0:17:48 > 0:17:50to get their content.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53But Charter review is, and I think people understand this,
0:17:53 > 0:17:56a once-in-ten-year opportunity to look at the scale and scope
0:17:56 > 0:18:01of the BBC and it is right to look at how to help the BBC and the wider
0:18:01 > 0:18:06media sector, indeed, to thrive in the future.
0:18:06 > 0:18:10It's more than 20 years since the UK's railway system
0:18:10 > 0:18:12was privatised, but the arguments over public and private ownership
0:18:12 > 0:18:15continue.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19Network Rail, which owns and manages the track and the stations,
0:18:19 > 0:18:22is in the public sector - classed as a state-owned company
0:18:22 > 0:18:24with no shareholders.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28But there's been speculation that privatisation of Network Rail may
0:18:28 > 0:18:30not be too far away.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33When the Transport Secretary, Patrick McLoughlin, stated
0:18:33 > 0:18:37in the Commons he had no plans to privatise the organisation,
0:18:37 > 0:18:41a Labour MP didn't seem convinced.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44The Secretary of State will be aware that the Treasury-backed Shaw
0:18:44 > 0:18:48Report, the final version is due to be published next week
0:18:48 > 0:18:52and which looks at future financing of railways,
0:18:52 > 0:18:55has made it clear that full privatisation of Network Rail
0:18:55 > 0:18:58is on the table.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01I am sure that the Minister would agree that we do not
0:19:01 > 0:19:05want to go back to the dark and chaotic days of the private
0:19:05 > 0:19:08management of our rail system under Railtrack.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the honourable member
0:19:12 > 0:19:15on seeing a report which I don't think has been published yet!
0:19:15 > 0:19:19So how he knows what the contents is is something that is beyond me.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22I am very proud of what we have achieved with the railway industry
0:19:22 > 0:19:24in this country.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28I think it has been a fantastic success, with the franchising
0:19:28 > 0:19:30that takes place.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33I am very sorry that the only people who are putting that at danger
0:19:33 > 0:19:35is not the government, but the opposition.
0:19:35 > 0:19:37David Nuttall.
0:19:37 > 0:19:39Does my right honourable friend agree that the evidence from other
0:19:39 > 0:19:43sectors shows that privatisation has the potential to increase efficiency
0:19:44 > 0:19:47and improve performance?
0:19:47 > 0:19:50I do agree with that, but I also think that there
0:19:50 > 0:19:56is is responsibility for a system of railway maintenance
0:19:56 > 0:20:00and improvement that is very important, and we have seen
0:20:00 > 0:20:05through the private sector vast improvements in our railway service.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07When the Secretary of State reads the Shaw Report,
0:20:07 > 0:20:10I hope he will recognise the relevance of the words
0:20:10 > 0:20:14of the great real Manager Gerry Hines, who said that,
0:20:15 > 0:20:16"When you reorganise, you bleed.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19For many months, the few top people who keep the momentum up
0:20:19 > 0:20:21are distracted from their proper job, punctuality goes to hell,
0:20:22 > 0:20:23safety starts to slip.
0:20:23 > 0:20:24Don't reorganise.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Don't, don't, don't."
0:20:27 > 0:20:30Mr Speaker, there is broad cross-party support for investment
0:20:30 > 0:20:33in the railways, for maintaining our outstanding safety record
0:20:33 > 0:20:37and for delivering major projects like HS2.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40So will he give me an assurance that the progress that has been made
0:20:40 > 0:20:43will not be jeopardised by pursuing unneeded,
0:20:43 > 0:20:46unwanted and dangerous plans to privatise Network Rail?
0:20:46 > 0:20:53Well, I can tell the honourable lady with absolute certainty there are no
0:20:53 > 0:20:58plans to continue a disastrous policy of nationalising
0:20:58 > 0:21:02the railways, which is one that she puts forward and her party
0:21:02 > 0:21:04leader puts forward.
0:21:04 > 0:21:07She just talked about all the investment that is going on and,
0:21:07 > 0:21:10indeed, she has seen quite a bit of it in her own constituency,
0:21:10 > 0:21:13not least in Nottingham Station, in which she welcomed
0:21:13 > 0:21:15that investment.
0:21:15 > 0:21:16Of course she welcomed that investment.
0:21:16 > 0:21:18I welcome investment in our railways.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21But it is also worthwhile asking how do we carry on that
0:21:21 > 0:21:23level of investment?
0:21:23 > 0:21:26Investment at the level which she would only have ever
0:21:26 > 0:21:29dreamt of when they were in government.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31Patrick McLoughlin.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34Now, what do Sir Alex Ferguson, Jamie Oliver and Karen Millen
0:21:34 > 0:21:36have in common?
0:21:36 > 0:21:39They were all apprentices, as the Skills Minister,
0:21:39 > 0:21:41Nick Boles, has informed MPs.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45Declaring himself to be "evangelical" about apprenticeships,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48the Minister explained what the Government was doing
0:21:48 > 0:21:50to improve the scheme.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54His statement came ahead of National Apprenticeship Week next week.
0:21:54 > 0:21:55An apprenticeship can take you anywhere.
0:21:55 > 0:22:01Sir Alex Ferguson did one, so did Jamie Oliver and Karen Millen
0:22:01 > 0:22:03and Sir Ian McKellen.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06So too did the chairman of great businesses like Crossrail,
0:22:06 > 0:22:09WS Atkins and Fujitsu.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12Mr Speaker, the government has great ambitions
0:22:12 > 0:22:14for our apprenticeships programme.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18In the last parliament, 2.4 million people started an apprenticeship.
0:22:18 > 0:22:22By 2020, we want a further three million to have that opportunity.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26He said the Government had to persuade more employers
0:22:26 > 0:22:29to offer apprenticeships.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32At the moment only about 15% of employers in England do.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36In Germany, it is 24%, in Australia 30%.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39So we are introducing a new apprenticeship levy
0:22:39 > 0:22:42which will be paid by all larger employers -
0:22:42 > 0:22:45those with an annual payroll bill of ?3 million or more.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48This will help us increase our spending on apprenticeships
0:22:48 > 0:22:55in England from ?1.5 billion last year to ?2.5 billion in 2019-20.
0:22:55 > 0:23:01What has turned up, in fact, is simply, if I can put it that way,
0:23:01 > 0:23:03a dance of the seven veils.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06What he has announced today, or what he has said today,
0:23:06 > 0:23:10is simply a rehash of much of what was already said in
0:23:10 > 0:23:12the English Apprenticeship document.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15That is what concerns the sector.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18Fine words butter no parsnips.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20He said there were several unanswered questions.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Will this levy be extra money or will it be a substitute
0:23:23 > 0:23:25for government funding?
0:23:25 > 0:23:27Will it be extra resources or will it simply be
0:23:27 > 0:23:28an Osborne payroll tax?
0:23:28 > 0:23:32So can he confirm that the amount he expects the levy to raise,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36and whether that will be more or less than the ?1 billion extra
0:23:36 > 0:23:40spend he has just said he hopes to add to spending
0:23:40 > 0:23:42on apprenticeships in England?
0:23:42 > 0:23:44Can I thank the Minister for an advanced copy
0:23:44 > 0:23:46of his statement?
0:23:46 > 0:23:49I am a little bit surprised that the timing of it.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51Apprenticeships in Scotland was last week, not next week.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54It would have been beneficial to have it then.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56The Scottish Government have recognised the importance
0:23:56 > 0:23:57of apprenticeships for some time.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Indeed, the Scottish Government has committed to creating 25,000 modern
0:23:59 > 0:24:01apprenticeships a year, which encompass 80
0:24:01 > 0:24:06different types of MAs.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08May I just add one slight note of caution?
0:24:08 > 0:24:09As a Conservative, I don't like levies.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13Let's call it a tax, instinctively.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16Has he had any response from big business as to their fears
0:24:16 > 0:24:19for the future if, heaven forbid, a socialist government ever took
0:24:19 > 0:24:23over, this could be an area of taxation that they might
0:24:23 > 0:24:26want to increase for other reasons?
0:24:26 > 0:24:28I would just very briefly say to the Minister,
0:24:28 > 0:24:32who I have some time for, that a lot of us in this side
0:24:32 > 0:24:34of the Chamber worked very hard, not least my honourable friend
0:24:34 > 0:24:37on the front bench and the chair of the select committee,
0:24:37 > 0:24:41to rescue apprenticeships from oblivion under Labour
0:24:41 > 0:24:45government and there was very good quality apprenticeships that he can
0:24:45 > 0:24:47now build upon.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50Tomorrow, I am attending an event hosted by the Ancient
0:24:50 > 0:24:51Company of Fellmongers.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54Would he join me in commending the fellmongers for returning
0:24:54 > 0:24:57to their medieval roots and supporting the creation
0:24:57 > 0:25:01of dozens of local apprenticeships, helping Richmond become one
0:25:01 > 0:25:03of the best performing constituencies anywhere
0:25:03 > 0:25:05in the United Kingdom?
0:25:05 > 0:25:08Madam Deputy Speaker, one of the curious things about this
0:25:08 > 0:25:12job is that you discover occupations that you had literally never heard
0:25:12 > 0:25:15of and, I have to admit I still don't know
0:25:15 > 0:25:19what the fellmonger is.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22In case you're not familiar with the trade, a fellmonger
0:25:22 > 0:25:24is someone who deals in sheep skins.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27And that's it, but do join me for the Week In Parliament,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30when we not only look back at the last few days in the Commons
0:25:30 > 0:25:34and the Lords, but also discuss what the obstacles are to women
0:25:34 > 0:25:36making progress in the Westminster career ladder.
0:25:36 > 0:25:40Until then, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.