0:00:17 > 0:00:19Hello and welcome to the programme.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21Coming up in the next half hour:
0:00:21 > 0:00:23Ministers admit the group examining harassment in Parliament hasn't
0:00:23 > 0:00:31managed to come up with a new complaints system.
0:00:31 > 0:00:36It cannot be right that it's easier to sanction a member of this House
0:00:36 > 0:00:41for disorderly conduct in the chamber than it is to sanction them
0:00:41 > 0:00:45for disorderly, disreputable and disgraceful conduct outside of it.
0:00:45 > 0:00:51Peers condemned the state of Liverpool prison.How do squalid
0:00:51 > 0:00:57conditions in a prison overrun with rats and cockroaches meet
0:00:57 > 0:01:01Churchill's famous dictum that the treatment of criminals is the most
0:01:01 > 0:01:04unfailing test of any country.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06And the Sports Minister is outpaced.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08Ministers arrived at Westminster still digesting the news that
0:01:08 > 0:01:09Damian Green had been sacked.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11The First Secretary of State had faced allegations
0:01:11 > 0:01:13of inappropriate conduct - although he was forced to resign
0:01:13 > 0:01:16for wrongly saying he had no knowledge that police had once found
0:01:16 > 0:01:18legal pornography on his computer.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21In the Commons, one Liberal Democrat MP felt the rules were not
0:01:21 > 0:01:24being applied consistently.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27Will the Leader of the House make time available for a Cabinet Office
0:01:27 > 0:01:31debate on the selective application of the ministerial code, so the
0:01:31 > 0:01:36Cabinet Office could explain why the Deputy Prime Minister had to go,
0:01:36 > 0:01:40whereas the Foreign Secretary, who - according to my estimations - has
0:01:40 > 0:01:43breached section 1.2A, 7.1 and 8.6 of the ministerial code,
0:01:43 > 0:01:46is still with us?
0:01:46 > 0:01:48Andrea Leadsom advised Tom Brake to raise his allegations
0:01:48 > 0:01:52with the Cabinet Office directly.
0:01:52 > 0:01:56One of the first debates of the day was about the way Parliament deals
0:01:56 > 0:01:57with bullying and harassment.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00The Leader of the House revealed that a Commons working group hasn't
0:02:00 > 0:02:02yet managed to come up with a new way of dealing
0:02:02 > 0:02:03with complaints.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Andrea Leadsom explained some of the proposed measures.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09A new behaviour code, to be consulted on,
0:02:09 > 0:02:12which would apply to all those who work in or for Parliament,
0:02:12 > 0:02:16including members, peers and staff wherever they work.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18This behaviour code could sit alongside the existing
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Parliamentary codes of conduct, which may themselves
0:02:21 > 0:02:26require amendment.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28For lower-level complaints, the range of possible sanctions
0:02:28 > 0:02:32could include training covering harassment and bullying,
0:02:32 > 0:02:34a full apology, as well as review where appropriate,
0:02:34 > 0:02:36of the Parliamentary pass.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39In serious cases, further work needs to be carried out to ensure
0:02:39 > 0:02:42sanctions are appropriate, fair and enforceable.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44The Leader of the Opposition has made it clear to me,
0:02:44 > 0:02:46and in his letter to the Prime Minister,
0:02:46 > 0:02:49that the opposition wants a separate, independent sexual
0:02:49 > 0:02:52harassment advisor and support.
0:02:52 > 0:02:56We suggest that the sexual adviser should be appointed now,
0:02:56 > 0:02:59who is independent and qualified to take the complainant
0:02:59 > 0:03:02through the process until the tender is out, which could be by the end
0:03:02 > 0:03:05of January, and a new separate helpline to be set up now,
0:03:05 > 0:03:12so if there are cases that exist now, people don't feel
0:03:12 > 0:03:14as if there is nowhere to go with their complaints.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16We cannot have this vacuum.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18It can easily be done immediately.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21It is profoundly disappointing that we have been unable to deliver
0:03:21 > 0:03:23a report this side of Christmas, as anticipated and as expected
0:03:23 > 0:03:29by members of this House.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32This delay is nothing whatsoever to do with the Leader of the House,
0:03:32 > 0:03:35who has personally gone that extra mile to ensure that progress
0:03:35 > 0:03:38is made, but, Mr Speaker, by failing to deliver this report,
0:03:38 > 0:03:40we have let everybody down in this House.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42We have particularly let down the staff of this House,
0:03:42 > 0:03:45who were expecting quick and speedy progress, and I am appalled
0:03:45 > 0:03:48if there is any suggestion that this may be getting punted
0:03:48 > 0:03:58into the long grass.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03We actually have an excellent report ready to go that has been agreed
0:04:03 > 0:04:05by all the parties in this House, practically all the parties
0:04:05 > 0:04:08in the House, and has been agreed by all staff represented.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11It cannot be right that it's easier to sanction a member of this House
0:04:11 > 0:04:14for disorderly conduct in the chamber than it is to
0:04:14 > 0:04:16sanction them for disorderly and disreputable and disgraceful
0:04:16 > 0:04:17conduct outside of it.
0:04:17 > 0:04:18So could she press ahead on that?
0:04:18 > 0:04:21And if she cannot find the unity in her working group,
0:04:21 > 0:04:27just to gently remind the Leader of the House that this issue
0:04:27 > 0:04:29belongs to the House, and if she cannot get unity
0:04:29 > 0:04:32in the working group, perhaps she should publish a draft
0:04:32 > 0:04:34report that all of us could take part in commenting on,
0:04:34 > 0:04:37because I think we would welcome more progress and more momentum
0:04:37 > 0:04:38behind what she's doing.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41What worries me about what has been said today - although I think
0:04:41 > 0:04:44it is very good progress - what worries me about what has been
0:04:44 > 0:04:48said today is that there does seem to be quite a lot of kicking a can
0:04:48 > 0:04:51potentially down the road, and that we're not going to hear
0:04:51 > 0:04:52what is going to happen.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55And I have to say, I fear that politics is still stopping
0:04:55 > 0:04:57some of those decisions, and I want some assurances that
0:04:57 > 0:04:59whatever sanctions regime the working group has worked
0:04:59 > 0:05:02towards, what ever independent regime the working group has worked
0:05:02 > 0:05:04towards, it is as swiftly as possible coming to fruition.
0:05:04 > 0:05:12Hear, hear.
0:05:12 > 0:05:16Yes, the honourable lady has been very helpful and open
0:05:16 > 0:05:19with her views on this matter, and I absolutely assure her I am
0:05:19 > 0:05:21working to get this sorted as soon as possible.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23There are glaring omissions in the work so far.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25For example, the word "violence" didn't utter
0:05:25 > 0:05:31from her lips this morning.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Can I suggest to her that this working group is far too narrowly
0:05:34 > 0:05:36drawn, and she should seriously consider setting up a special
0:05:36 > 0:05:39Select Committee on which all members of this House would be able
0:05:39 > 0:05:42to apply to be elected, and it should be conveyed
0:05:42 > 0:05:44by a committee of all parties of the houses of parliament,
0:05:44 > 0:05:47because if we want to make sure this is a modern,
0:05:47 > 0:05:49exemplar of the workplace, fixed for the rest of the world.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52Well, I'm grateful to my honourable friend, and I can absolutely
0:05:52 > 0:05:55assure him that one of the proposals the working group is looking
0:05:55 > 0:05:58at is the provision of services by an independent sexual harassment
0:05:58 > 0:06:01and sexual violence advocate.
0:06:01 > 0:06:07That would be very key to this.
0:06:07 > 0:06:08With that particular expertise.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11His comments on the proposal of a bicameral Select Committee
0:06:11 > 0:06:17is an interesting one.
0:06:17 > 0:06:19I have mentioned that as one of the proposals
0:06:19 > 0:06:21that has been put to us.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23She's right to say that change is hard.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25Would she agree that vested interests, not least whips offices
0:06:25 > 0:06:27reluctant to give up their power, must not be allowed
0:06:27 > 0:06:33to derail Parliament making progress on harassment?
0:06:33 > 0:06:38I have spoken to whips on both sides of the House, in fact on all sides
0:06:38 > 0:06:43of the House, and all are very keen to see resolution of this matter.
0:06:43 > 0:06:49She said in her statement work needs to be carried out to ensure
0:06:49 > 0:06:53sanctions are appropriate and fair. Will she confirmed that recall is on
0:06:53 > 0:07:00the table as an option, and also that members who have been found to
0:07:00 > 0:07:04behave inappropriately will receive severance pay.Recall is a
0:07:04 > 0:07:08possibility. The working party has not finished its work on exactly how
0:07:08 > 0:07:13that can be brought to bear, but we are very clear there will be
0:07:13 > 0:07:17ultimate sanctions. The issue for parliament isn't one that only
0:07:17 > 0:07:23affects members. It affects peers, staff, nonmembers staff. There is
0:07:23 > 0:07:28quite a large amount of work, which is why I was very clear that the
0:07:28 > 0:07:40work on sanctions needs to be looked at further to
0:07:43 > 0:07:45make sure they are fair vote to the person who is alleged to have
0:07:45 > 0:07:47committed something bad, and also to the complainant, who deserves
0:07:47 > 0:07:49justice.Andrea Leadsom.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52MPs from across the political spectrum have accused Russia
0:07:52 > 0:07:54of trying to interfere in the UK's political system -
0:07:54 > 0:07:56presenting a serious threat to British democracy.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59The Government said it recognised the threat but there was no evidence
0:07:59 > 0:08:00that Moscow had been successful.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02The Prime Minister told an audience in Poland that Russia
0:08:02 > 0:08:04was seeking to undermine the international order.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07And MPs demanded a tougher response to the Kremlin's use of social media
0:08:07 > 0:08:10and tighter election spending rules:
0:08:10 > 0:08:15The UK is at risk of neglecting the threat Russia poses, and I would
0:08:15 > 0:08:22argue Russia is a clear and present danger, and presents a threat to our
0:08:22 > 0:08:26democracy. President Putin certainly is not a friend of this country.
0:08:26 > 0:08:32Russia would only have interfered in the EU referendum, or any other
0:08:32 > 0:08:40elections, here, to damage the UK and EU security.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42A committee is looking into the issue of "fake news"
0:08:42 > 0:08:43and disinformation.
0:08:43 > 0:08:47The chair criticised Facebook:
0:08:47 > 0:08:52Asking for more evidence of Russian activity across the site, including
0:08:52 > 0:08:57pages, group accounts and profiles, not just restricted to pay for
0:08:57 > 0:09:02advertising. I believe we have a right to receive information from
0:09:02 > 0:09:06them. They conducted their own research during the French
0:09:06 > 0:09:11presidential election, which led to the deletion of 30,000 pages and
0:09:11 > 0:09:19accounts.It is time for British politicians to stop making useful
0:09:19 > 0:09:26idiots of themselves by taking... A lot of the ties that have been made
0:09:26 > 0:09:31between the Putin regime and the far right are well documented, but it
0:09:31 > 0:09:36pains me to say there are still some of these useful idiots on the left
0:09:36 > 0:09:42in British politics. My message is that Russia is a nasty klepto
0:09:42 > 0:09:48Chrissy, racist and homophobic, and makes no secret of wanting to
0:09:48 > 0:09:53undermine our democracy.The paranoid tendency to see a red under
0:09:53 > 0:10:01every bed is still alive. There is an explanation for this paranoia.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04Look at Donald Trump's victory, the success of Brexit and the
0:10:04 > 0:10:09referendum. Things are not going the way of liberals and their worldview,
0:10:09 > 0:10:14and they just cannot accept that the workers and the people are
0:10:14 > 0:10:17abandoning their ideology. The left know that the people are never
0:10:17 > 0:10:23wrong, so when the people are wrong, as with Brexit or Trump, the left
0:10:23 > 0:10:29needs to find an excuse for why the people are misbehaving. Russia is
0:10:29 > 0:10:34that excuse today.Honourable members have their own opinion, but
0:10:34 > 0:10:41they have to accept the ballot box decision of June 2016. If they
0:10:41 > 0:10:48accept that, they have to make sure that Brexit happens. I have to say
0:10:48 > 0:10:52that I do not believe that this influence change the result of the
0:10:52 > 0:10:58referendum.There was a conclusion that Russia was intervening
0:10:58 > 0:11:04systematically abroad in the West. I think it would be naive of us to
0:11:04 > 0:11:08assume that Russia was not intervening here in this country.
0:11:08 > 0:11:13That takes us to the heart of the reform agenda we need to look at. It
0:11:13 > 0:11:18is becoming clear that there is a dark social playbook that is being
0:11:18 > 0:11:24used to great effect.When there is any suggestion that the Kremlin has
0:11:24 > 0:11:31sought to interfere in any process, we look into this seriously. We have
0:11:31 > 0:11:36not seen evidence of successful interference in UK democratic
0:11:36 > 0:11:41processes.As for the enquiry referred to by Damian Collins...The
0:11:41 > 0:11:48committee is due to examine the top brass of Facebook and other social
0:11:48 > 0:11:52media sites in February. We recognise their progress, but there
0:11:52 > 0:11:57is far more they need to do in terms of transparency and cooperation.
0:11:57 > 0:12:02This is a work in progress. We do not think the Select Committee on
0:12:02 > 0:12:08this is being given the straight answers we expect.
0:12:08 > 0:12:10You're watching Thursday in Parliament with me, Mandy Baker.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12A leaked report into conditions at Liverpool prison has concluded
0:12:12 > 0:12:14that prisoners were living in the worst conditions
0:12:14 > 0:12:16inspectors had ever seen.
0:12:16 > 0:12:18At an unannounced visit to the jail in September,
0:12:18 > 0:12:21inspectors found inmates living in "squalid conditions",
0:12:21 > 0:12:23with rat and cockroach infestations.
0:12:23 > 0:12:33In the Lords, peers were damning.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37The situation in Her Majesty 's prison, Liverpool, is the latest
0:12:37 > 0:12:43manifestation of the crisis in our prisons. It is ace shameful litany
0:12:43 > 0:12:49of squalor, sickness and apparently even death. Instead of initially
0:12:49 > 0:12:52refusing to comment on the leaked report, the Government should
0:12:52 > 0:12:57already have published it, together with its response. Will it examine
0:12:57 > 0:13:01the apparent failure of contractors over a long period to carry out
0:13:01 > 0:13:06major repair work in a way that did not threaten the well-being of
0:13:06 > 0:13:17inmates and staff?Very troubling matters were raised by the report,
0:13:17 > 0:13:19but I'm not going to comment on the content of the leaked report. The
0:13:19 > 0:13:22inspector gave a debriefing to the prison service straight after, and
0:13:22 > 0:13:26we have responded to that. The prison is a Victorian prison, and
0:13:26 > 0:13:31there are real issues with regard to the accommodation there. It is worth
0:13:31 > 0:13:39noting that not a pound has been spent on the cell accommodation at
0:13:39 > 0:13:42Liverpool since 1994. In the intervening period, there was a
0:13:42 > 0:13:54Labour Government.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56One of the most shocking sentences in the Chief Inspector's
0:13:56 > 0:13:58introduction to this report, which is a shocking indictment
0:14:18 > 0:14:23Lord Marks said the report may have been leaked but there was no
0:14:23 > 0:14:33doubting its content.
0:14:38 > 0:14:39The worst inspectors had seen.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42Prisoners spending 22 hours a day in filthy vermin infested cells,
0:14:42 > 0:14:44with exposed electrical wiring and blocked or leaking lavatories.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46Within weeks of the inspection, two inmates killed themselves.
0:14:46 > 0:14:47Yes, the governor has been sacked.
0:14:47 > 0:14:48But that is not enough.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51Will the MOJ please act urgently to establish a crisis task force
0:14:51 > 0:14:54to work with the inspectorate's recommendations here and elsewhere
0:14:54 > 0:14:56to turn around the dreadful conditions in our failing prisons?
0:14:56 > 0:14:59My Lords, we have replaced not only the governor but the deputy governor
0:14:59 > 0:15:01and the head of health care at the prison itself.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04We intend to establish a new unit in the prison service,
0:15:04 > 0:15:07to enhance our response to the recommendations
0:15:07 > 0:15:10of the inspector, which will involve monitoring and an audit
0:15:10 > 0:15:11of recommendations.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14This will commence in January 2018.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18The real problem is the continued understaffing of our prisons
0:15:18 > 0:15:22and the failure therefore to provide the sort of care that common
0:15:22 > 0:15:24humanity would suggest was necessary to those in the care
0:15:24 > 0:15:30of the state as prisoners.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33One of the most shocking sentences in the Chief Inspector's
0:15:33 > 0:15:41introduction to this report, which is a shocking indictment
0:15:41 > 0:15:44of the way prisons are run, reads: we saw clear evidence that
0:15:44 > 0:15:48local prison managers had sought help from regional and national
0:15:48 > 0:15:52management to improve conditions they need to be unacceptable,
0:15:52 > 0:15:59long before our arrival, but had met with little response.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02Could the noble lord the Minister please tell the House who in prison
0:16:02 > 0:16:04service headquarters is responsible and accountable for the oversight
0:16:04 > 0:16:14of Her Majesty's prison Liverpool and how that oversight is exercised?
0:16:14 > 0:16:17My lord, I'm not going to name individuals in the prison service.
0:16:17 > 0:16:18I'm sorry.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22I was concerned that the noble Lord had become unwell.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25I am not going to name individuals.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27It would be most invidious to do so.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29The prison service is responsible for the conditions
0:16:29 > 0:16:34at Her Majesty's prison, Liverpool.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38Scotland Yard has said it'll examine dozens of investigations
0:16:38 > 0:16:41following the collapse of two rape cases in which the police had failed
0:16:41 > 0:16:44to disclose vital evidence.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Even before the latest cases, the Attorney General, Jeremy Wright,
0:16:46 > 0:16:48had ordered a separate inquiry into disclosure in criminal trials.
0:16:48 > 0:16:50The Conservative Chair of the Justice Committee said
0:16:50 > 0:17:00there had been "appalling failures" by the police and prosecutors
0:17:02 > 0:17:05Given the significance of this, will be attorney make sure that the
0:17:05 > 0:17:09review he is carrying out, as announced by the Prime Minister,
0:17:09 > 0:17:13looks not only at the working practices, but the professional
0:17:13 > 0:17:17culture and the independence and objectivity of the Crown Prosecution
0:17:17 > 0:17:21Service of these matters. I noticed it was an independently instructed
0:17:21 > 0:17:26member of the bar, Mr Jerry Hayes, who was responsible for highlighting
0:17:26 > 0:17:29what was the clear failure of the Crown Prosecution Service in this
0:17:29 > 0:17:40case.With all that went wrong in this case which was also a great
0:17:40 > 0:17:42deal, it highlighted what was good with the criminal justice system as
0:17:42 > 0:17:46well as what went wrong.We do owe a debt of gratitude for those who have
0:17:46 > 0:17:49exercised their judgment in cases like this and this applies to this
0:17:49 > 0:17:53individual council, but in terms of the wider point my honourable friend
0:17:53 > 0:17:57makes, he knows, because I have said it before, that my view is that
0:17:57 > 0:18:01these were appalling failures of the criminal justice system. We need
0:18:01 > 0:18:05urgently to understand what went wrong in these particular cases but
0:18:05 > 0:18:09we also, as he says, need to look more broadly at the question of
0:18:09 > 0:18:12disclosure which has been an issue for some time. It relates to what
0:18:12 > 0:18:17people know they should be doing, and how much information they are
0:18:17 > 0:18:20prepared to take account of, but it also relates to some of the
0:18:20 > 0:18:24challenges we face, from a very large amount of electronic material
0:18:24 > 0:18:28and a very large number of cases now, and so the systems need to be
0:18:28 > 0:18:32fit for purpose, and the review I am undertaking will seek to ensure that
0:18:32 > 0:18:36they are. The Attorney General.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38The Government has been urged to increase funding for refuges
0:18:38 > 0:18:39for victims of domestic violence.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42As part of changes to the welfare system, ministers plan to give local
0:18:42 > 0:18:45councils a "ring-fenced" grant to pay for short-term supported
0:18:45 > 0:18:47housing, such as refuges for domestic violence victims
0:18:47 > 0:18:48and homeless people.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50That means accommodation will no longer be funded directly
0:18:50 > 0:18:52by the residents' housing benefit.
0:18:52 > 0:19:00But charities fear the change could threaten their viability.
0:19:00 > 0:19:07All short-term provision, for example hostels and refugees will
0:19:07 > 0:19:12continue to be funded at the same level by local authorities in 2020,
0:19:12 > 0:19:16as noted at the recent budget 2017, the document within that budget,
0:19:16 > 0:19:21there will be a transfer of funds from welfare spending to my
0:19:21 > 0:19:29department from 2020, 2021. The right honourable member voiced his
0:19:29 > 0:19:34concerns on October 25 over future funding levels for supported housing
0:19:34 > 0:19:37after 2020. I would just like to take this opportunity to reassure
0:19:37 > 0:19:44him that the amount of grant funding for this partner after 2020 will
0:19:44 > 0:19:48take account of the cost of provision and the great future
0:19:48 > 0:19:54provision.Can be Minister clarify funding domestic violence refuge
0:19:54 > 0:20:02position for the same level as today just the shortfall across the
0:20:02 > 0:20:05country. Around 90 women and their children are being turned away every
0:20:05 > 0:20:11day across the country, without an increase in the funding for refuge
0:20:11 > 0:20:15position, and without establishing a national network, the Government
0:20:15 > 0:20:18will fail to guarantee that every woman and child fleeing domestic
0:20:18 > 0:20:23abuse can be kept safe in a refuge? The honourable lady makes a good
0:20:23 > 0:20:26point. Every woman should be protected and have a safe place to
0:20:26 > 0:20:31go. There are more bed spaces than there were in 2010. She does make a
0:20:31 > 0:20:40good
0:20:41 > 0:20:44point and we are doing a full audit early next year, to see what
0:20:44 > 0:20:46provision of life across the country, and that will allow us to
0:20:46 > 0:20:49see where the gaps are and the challenges are because we want to
0:20:49 > 0:20:51make sure women are safe.Can the minister give a guarantee that the
0:20:51 > 0:20:54extra cows and costs will be met in full without -- the extra housing
0:20:54 > 0:20:58cost will be met in full without quibble or caveat. Costs and
0:20:58 > 0:21:02responsibility for delivery cannot just be passed onto local
0:21:02 > 0:21:06government, charities are housing providers. Can I encourage the
0:21:06 > 0:21:09Minister to drop the mantra that providing housing support for people
0:21:09 > 0:21:12is about getting them into work, and just say that providing housing
0:21:12 > 0:21:19support is about helping people with their housing?This is not at all
0:21:19 > 0:21:22about penny-pinching. I can also reassure her on the point of work.
0:21:22 > 0:21:26The point I was making was about women's refuges where there are
0:21:26 > 0:21:32quite often women who are being abused and subject to domestic
0:21:32 > 0:21:35violence that have got reasonable jobs and without giving up those
0:21:35 > 0:21:40jobs, they would not qualify for housing benefit, and I cannot see
0:21:40 > 0:21:45how that is right at all.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47But the opposition said the government's statement had
0:21:47 > 0:21:49failed to clear up concerns and it's entire supported housing
0:21:49 > 0:21:52policy was in trouble.
0:21:52 > 0:21:57In future years, I have to say is students will be giving this is a
0:21:57 > 0:22:01case study in disastrous government decision-making. This was the third
0:22:01 > 0:22:05policy rewrite in two years since George Osborne made the crude policy
0:22:05 > 0:22:09decision simply to give the Treasury big cost savings. The Government
0:22:09 > 0:22:14still has not got it right. We'll be Minister accept that government must
0:22:14 > 0:22:20work further, with parliament, and with the housing sector, to meet the
0:22:20 > 0:22:24terms of the resolution, and sort out a good long-term system for the
0:22:24 > 0:22:29future and the funding of supported housing?
0:22:29 > 0:22:31Now, should Channel Four move out of London?
0:22:31 > 0:22:34The Culture Secretary has told MPs there were "clear benefits"
0:22:34 > 0:22:36to relocating the broadcaster to another major city.
0:22:36 > 0:22:38Ministers believe a move would generate millions of pounds
0:22:38 > 0:22:39and help the creative industries.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester have all been touted
0:22:42 > 0:22:43as possible new homes.
0:22:43 > 0:22:51A Labour MP backed the idea.
0:22:51 > 0:22:56Will the Secretary of State confirm that there is an approximate £600
0:22:56 > 0:23:01million benefit to broadcasting by moving Channel 4 out of London? And
0:23:01 > 0:23:06would she also confirm that it is unacceptable that any four of the
0:23:06 > 0:23:09120 Commissioners of programmes for Channel 4 currently live outside of
0:23:09 > 0:23:16London. There is an economic benefit whether it is Salford which I
0:23:16 > 0:23:19prefer, Birmingham, Sheffield Leeds, it should be done today.I thought
0:23:19 > 0:23:25it would be a bid for Wrexham so I am interested to hear his views on
0:23:25 > 0:23:28other locations. There are many different estimates to the benefit,
0:23:28 > 0:23:34but it is a clear benefit to the country of Channel 4 relocating out
0:23:34 > 0:23:38of London. They are a publicly owned broadcaster, as a publicly owned
0:23:38 > 0:23:45broadcaster we expect them to deliver benefits above and beyond
0:23:45 > 0:23:48commercial benefits and that includes relocating out of London.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51Does my right honourable friend agree that to send the message that
0:23:51 > 0:23:55Channel 4 is an alternative broadcaster then its headquarters
0:23:55 > 0:24:00should not be in NSW one?My right honourable friend speaks with great
0:24:00 > 0:24:03experience and knowledge on this matter and I think house does well
0:24:03 > 0:24:09to listen to his wide words.'S Channel 4 is not a programme maker
0:24:09 > 0:24:13but a programme Commissioner, there is limited benefits in moving staff
0:24:13 > 0:24:17and it should be programme making which reflects the diversity of the
0:24:17 > 0:24:20country.This is one of the arguments which has been put forward
0:24:20 > 0:24:24about the way Channel 4's business model and how it operates. I think
0:24:24 > 0:24:29we have seen with what happened with the BBC moving to Salford, albeit I
0:24:29 > 0:24:35accept with a different business model, but that creativity, that
0:24:35 > 0:24:42clustering of talent really have had benefit. I think you only have to
0:24:42 > 0:24:46look, one only has to look at the analysis of the programming which is
0:24:46 > 0:24:51commissioned outside London, to see that basing outside London could
0:24:51 > 0:24:54have real significant benefits for those individual benefit companies
0:24:54 > 0:24:59which are not in FW one.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01It's not often the shadow secretary of state gets to make
0:25:01 > 0:25:02an announcement in the Commons.
0:25:02 > 0:25:09But then Tom Watson is very quick on his feet.
0:25:09 > 0:25:12Mr Speaker, I would like to announce to the House that the Commonwealth
0:25:12 > 0:25:17Games have just been awarded to Birmingham.
0:25:17 > 0:25:22The minister was miffed.
0:25:22 > 0:25:27The cheek of the gentleman. This was announced formally at 9:30am in
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Birmingham.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31The sports minister outrun by her shadow.
0:25:31 > 0:25:32That's all we've got time for now.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35But please join my colleague Alicia McCarthy at the same time
0:25:35 > 0:25:37tomorrow for a look back at all the parliamentary twists
0:25:37 > 0:25:39and turns of the last four months.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43But for now from me, Mandy Baker, goodbye.