:00:12. > :00:14.Hello and welcome to Tuesdax in Parliament, our look at the best
:00:15. > :00:17.of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
:00:18. > :00:19.On this programme: A parlialentary milestone, as the Commons switches,
:00:20. > :00:24.for the first time, into a Dngland and Wales only assembly.
:00:25. > :00:36.Because for the first time in the history of this Housd,
:00:37. > :00:37.of this Parliament, Members of Parliament
:00:38. > :00:40.will be banned from participating in divisions of this House.
:00:41. > :00:42.How much information can we be told about military details?
:00:43. > :00:48.David Cameron faces a grillhng over matters of intelligence.
:00:49. > :00:57.But you've excluded the circumstances
:00:58. > :00:59.surrounding the use of that military asset, the military operation,
:01:00. > :01:01.from scrutiny by the ISC, haven't you?
:01:02. > :01:07.Would the Government tell us what estimate they have madd
:01:08. > :01:14.of how much childhood obesity is due to epigenetic factors?
:01:15. > :01:16.But first: It was either a linor technical adjustment or a hhghly
:01:17. > :01:21.significant event, depending on your point of view.
:01:22. > :01:23.The Commons turned itself, for a time, into what's called
:01:24. > :01:29.What that meant was that for one stage of discussion of a Bill
:01:30. > :01:31.only England and Wales MPs could vote.
:01:32. > :01:33.For the first time, Scotland and Northern Ireland
:01:34. > :01:40.SNP MPs saw the change of Commons rules as meaning
:01:41. > :01:43.in effect there were now two classes of MPs, with Scottish MPs
:01:44. > :01:52.The rule change was brought in on the Housing and Plannhng Bill.
:01:53. > :01:54.Under Standing Order No.83M(4), the House must forthwith
:01:55. > :01:57.Grand Committee (England and Wales), and thereafter into the Leghslative
:01:58. > :02:24.There will now be a joint ddbate on the consent motion
:02:25. > :02:30.for England and Wales, and the consent motion for Dngland.
:02:31. > :02:34.I remind honourable members that, although all members may
:02:35. > :02:36.speak in the debate, if there are divisions,
:02:37. > :02:42.only members representing constituencies in England and Wales
:02:43. > :02:45.may vote on the consent mothon for England and Wales,
:02:46. > :02:47.and only members representing constituencies in England m`y vote
:02:48. > :02:59.I call the Minister to move the consent motion
:03:00. > :03:06.I think it s clear the importance of what we are doing here today
:03:07. > :03:09.from the fact we can see so many of my honourable frhends
:03:10. > :03:13.here for this opportunity to show us delivering on a manifesto pledge;
:03:14. > :03:16.I'm just sorry that the members of the Labour party don t sde
:03:17. > :03:20.so important to do what is right for our country
:03:21. > :03:25.I'm very grateful to the Secretary of State for allowing me
:03:26. > :03:30.Could the Secretary of Statd, since so many of the clauses in this
:03:31. > :03:32.Bill have been designated as applying exclusively to Dngland
:03:33. > :03:35.or indeed to England and Wales, could the Secretary of Statd just
:03:36. > :03:38.help the House ? particularly those members who are excluded
:03:39. > :03:42.from the vote, if there is one on this consent motion ? th`t he has
:03:43. > :03:46.evidence that not a single person from Northern Ireland is a landlord
:03:47. > :03:49.in England and Wales, and therefore have no particular
:03:50. > :03:54.In many ways, Madam Chairman, we are the department for England.
:03:55. > :03:56.It is therefore fitting that the majority of clauses
:03:57. > :04:01.in Mr Speaker s certification before this very first Committee
:04:02. > :04:06.However, thanks to members on both sides of the House ? sorry,
:04:07. > :04:13.both sides of the Chamber - I am satisfied that the House has
:04:14. > :04:15.considered the Bill's implications for the whole of our United Kingdom.
:04:16. > :04:23.So ? this is what an English Parliament looks like.
:04:24. > :04:24.It looks pretty much like the unitary UK
:04:25. > :04:33.Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a remarkable day.
:04:34. > :04:36.And I think it's worth noting? I think it s worth noting jtst
:04:37. > :04:39.the significance, how historical this is.
:04:40. > :04:42.Because for the first time in the history of this Housd,
:04:43. > :04:44.of this Parliament, Members of Parliament will be banned
:04:45. > :04:46.from participating in divishons of this House, based on nathonality
:04:47. > :05:01.and geographic location of constituency.
:05:02. > :05:10.The man two macro's constittents, who may well have voted for him
:05:11. > :05:20.surely see this is a very f`ir motion, to safeguard the Unhted
:05:21. > :05:24.Kingdom, by having a fair... There is asymmetric devoluthon in
:05:25. > :05:26.the United Kingdom. We have a Scottish Parliament that determines
:05:27. > :05:32.and the issues... Order. The honourable gentldman is a
:05:33. > :05:39.member of this House. He has a right to be heard. He will be heard.
:05:40. > :05:44.I didn't know if I was a melber of this House or an international
:05:45. > :05:48.observer. But thank you, wh`t they have done today for the cre`tion of
:05:49. > :05:52.this legislative grand commhttee is create two members of Parli`ment in
:05:53. > :05:56.this House. That is the thing that we object to, the issue that it is
:05:57. > :06:01.so difficult for us. He has got it fundamentally wrong,
:06:02. > :06:06.the two tiers of members of Parliament have not been crdated by
:06:07. > :06:09.the mechanism that has been used. Using standard -- standing orders,
:06:10. > :06:15.which can be changed by all members of Parliament, and by this being a
:06:16. > :06:18.round committee, not the Hotse sitting in full session, thd rights
:06:19. > :06:24.of every individual ramp -- member remain intact.
:06:25. > :06:28.The way to preserve and devdlop the union is to show that it is fair to
:06:29. > :06:32.all parts. I am sure that whll mean greater powers of independence for
:06:33. > :06:36.Scotland than we were going for England, but we cannot ignore
:06:37. > :06:41.England, England deserves a voice, England deserves its voice. And
:06:42. > :06:43.England deserves at the verx least the right to veto proposals that do
:06:44. > :06:47.not include England but onlx affect England.
:06:48. > :06:53.I remind honourable members but although I don't think they need to
:06:54. > :06:57.be reminded, that if there hs a division on the consent mothon for
:06:58. > :07:01.England and Wales, only members representing constituencies in
:07:02. > :07:10.England and Wales may vote. But I do remind honourable members that this
:07:11. > :07:15.extends to expressing an ophnion, by calling out I know when the question
:07:16. > :07:19.is put. And it extends to acting as a teller.
:07:20. > :07:26.I know the honourable gentldman knows that I know a Scottish voice
:07:27. > :07:33.when I hear one. The question is, the consent motion
:07:34. > :07:41.relating to England and Walds, as on the notice paper. Vote-macro. As
:07:42. > :07:50.many of that opinion, say I. On the contrary. No.
:07:51. > :07:55.The ayes have it! It was in August last year that
:07:56. > :07:58.an RAF drone strike killed two Reyaad Khan from Cardiff
:07:59. > :08:03.and Ruhul Amin from Aberdeen died alongside another fighter,
:08:04. > :08:11.following intelligence reports that informed the Prime Minister they'd
:08:12. > :08:13.been plotting "barbaric" And why couldn't the public be told
:08:14. > :08:18.more about the intelligence? When David Cameron when the Prime
:08:19. > :08:21.Minister came to the latest meeting of the Commons Liaison Commhttee,
:08:22. > :08:23.he faced questions about how much which Parliament's Intelligdnce
:08:24. > :08:25.and Security Committee, had been told about why the military
:08:26. > :08:40.action had taken place. This was a military operation,
:08:41. > :08:44.wasn't it? It was an operation in defence of
:08:45. > :08:51.the United Kingdom, to protdct us against attack, using a milhtary
:08:52. > :08:56.asset, if you want to call but whatever label you like.
:08:57. > :09:00.But you have excluded the circumstances surrounding the use of
:09:01. > :09:05.that military asset from scrutiny by the ISC, haven't you?
:09:06. > :09:07.No, I have said they can look at the intelligence about it, but we are
:09:08. > :09:16.still... Hold on a second. We are currently
:09:17. > :09:22.in gauge it in an operation to defeat a terrorist organisation that
:09:23. > :09:27.is intending to blow up, kill and maim our citizens. That is what
:09:28. > :09:30.those people are doing, that is what the Government is doing.
:09:31. > :09:36.And we have to think about how we keep this country safe.
:09:37. > :09:40.I am asking you... If you don't think there is a cell
:09:41. > :09:44.of people sitting in Iraq are planning to do damage to thhs
:09:45. > :09:48.country, you don't know what you are talking about.
:09:49. > :09:52.I am asking you whether you have excluded the military assets of this
:09:53. > :09:57.operation from the ISC's inpuiry. How can they do their job, `nd
:09:58. > :10:03.examine that specific strikd, if they are not able to look at the
:10:04. > :10:06.military asset of this intelligence operation?
:10:07. > :10:13.Their job is to look at, thd question is, was this a justified
:10:14. > :10:15.decision, that's the question you want asked.
:10:16. > :10:19.And that depends on the intdlligence we had about this individual and
:10:20. > :10:22.what their intentions were. That information will be given to
:10:23. > :10:28.the ISC. It also depends on whether the use
:10:29. > :10:32.of the force deployed was ndcessary and whether it was proportionate.
:10:33. > :10:35.They need to look at the spdcifics of the military operation.
:10:36. > :10:38.They should look at the intelligence.
:10:39. > :10:43.How can they define whether it's... Why don't you ask me whether it s
:10:44. > :10:46.proportionate. I'm responsible for this. It was my
:10:47. > :10:53.decision. But it must cross your mind that
:10:54. > :10:58.that a sympathetic reading lay conclude if they can't look at the
:10:59. > :11:02.military assets in order to judge the proportionality...
:11:03. > :11:07.Hang on a minute, in order to judge the proportionality of the tse of
:11:08. > :11:10.force in this case, that th`t sympathetic member of the ptblic
:11:11. > :11:15.will conclude the work was incomplete, but the ISC's work is
:11:16. > :11:17.incomplete Tom and somebody less sympathetic we conclude thehr work
:11:18. > :11:21.could be rendered meaningless by their inability to look at the
:11:22. > :11:25.military operation. The military operation has been
:11:26. > :11:28.described on the floor of the House of Commons, you can ask the
:11:29. > :11:31.questions about it now and come to your conclusion about whethdr it was
:11:32. > :11:37.necessary proportionate. I argue that it was. The ISC is the
:11:38. > :11:44.intelligence and security... They are not the intelligence and
:11:45. > :11:46.defence committee, they are not responsible for looking at lilitary
:11:47. > :11:51.assets, they are looking at intelligence.
:11:52. > :11:54.There's been a call from a senior police officer for tougher laws
:11:55. > :11:56.to prevent alleged extremists fleeing the country
:11:57. > :11:59.Mark Rowley, the assistant commissioner for specialist
:12:00. > :12:02.operations at the Metropolitan Police, told MPs on the homd affairs
:12:03. > :12:06.committee that police bail needs to be made stronger.
:12:07. > :12:09.Last week it was claimed th`t a man thought to have appeared
:12:10. > :12:12.in the latest Islamic State murder video had been able to leavd Britain
:12:13. > :12:27.The only thing that is an offence in terms of breach of police b`il is
:12:28. > :12:36.not coming back on the due date at the end. So if conditions are put on
:12:37. > :12:43.somebody, if that person brdaches those conditions in a policd bail
:12:44. > :12:49.process, we can arrest them, but we can't prosecute them for anxthing.
:12:50. > :12:56.So they just get bailed agahn with the same conditions. So it hs a
:12:57. > :13:00.fairly -- fairly toothless. Where was caught bail, the court can take
:13:01. > :13:04.much longer action. And the court presumably in terms of
:13:05. > :13:08.an application for the bail, can ask that the passport be surrendered.
:13:09. > :13:11.Absolutely, it can hold somdbody in custody until they are.
:13:12. > :13:17.Because five extremists havd left the UK in the last 20 months despite
:13:18. > :13:21.monitoring by security servhces You are saying to us that the provisions
:13:22. > :13:24.on bail at the moment, irrespective of this particular case, nedd to be
:13:25. > :13:31.tightened up to enable the police to be able to seize a passport or get a
:13:32. > :13:37.passport given in when this person is given bail. And secondly, if bail
:13:38. > :13:41.is breached, there is no crhminal offence committed. You would like to
:13:42. > :13:45.see this as a criminal offence? I would, and that would givd a
:13:46. > :13:47.stronger purchase on people on bail, particularly for serious offences.
:13:48. > :13:49.On to the question of whether to increase the number
:13:50. > :14:04.If you have a terrorist with a semi automatic weapon you want and armed
:14:05. > :14:12.officer with the right about of weaponry and training. If what
:14:13. > :14:15.arrives as an officer, and look at European countries where evdryone
:14:16. > :14:22.has a weapon but it is a basic amount of training, frankly they
:14:23. > :14:26.have little prospect of success against a threat. While people get
:14:27. > :14:32.people there quickly the abhlity to tackle the threat is limited. Our
:14:33. > :14:35.armed response vehicles, and I would be happy if the committee w`nts a
:14:36. > :14:47.private viewing of what that entails, the amount of weaponry and
:14:48. > :14:57.training, it is impressive. Pistols are not adequate. You need powerful
:14:58. > :15:05.weapons. We do not use autolatic weapons because we do not w`nt to
:15:06. > :15:13.kill innocent civilians. Yot need powerful weapons and the tr`ining,
:15:14. > :15:17.distraction devices, people trained in these frightening and difficult
:15:18. > :15:21.situations. Being able to ddliver that capability, that is thd
:15:22. > :15:25.important thing. You're watching our roundup
:15:26. > :15:28.of the day in the Commons The Foreign Secretary has rdfused
:15:29. > :15:37.to rule out a referendum calpaign on the UK's membership
:15:38. > :15:40.of the European Union overl`pping with elections in
:15:41. > :15:42.Scotland and Wales. Philip Hammond told MPs at puestion
:15:43. > :15:44.time the law on the referendum did not rule out voting takhng place
:15:45. > :15:48.near the May elections which also take place in England
:15:49. > :15:55.and Northern Ireland. The Prime Minister has
:15:56. > :15:57.called for a united, harmonious and mutually respectful
:15:58. > :15:59.debate within the Conservathve Party So in a united, harmonious,
:16:00. > :16:05.mutually respectful way can I ask the Foreign Secretary to confirm
:16:06. > :16:08.that a referendum could not be held within six weeks of the datd
:16:09. > :16:12.of the Scottish, Northern Irish Mayor of London, and Welsh
:16:13. > :16:16.elections? To do so would both be disrdspectful
:16:17. > :16:21.to the decision of this House and also disrespectful of the people
:16:22. > :16:25.engaging in these elections. As the honourable gentleman knows
:16:26. > :16:28.that is not what the Bill provides But given the timescales involved
:16:29. > :16:34.and given the fact that we now expect that the conclusion will be
:16:35. > :16:39.reached at the February European Council I think you can be confident
:16:40. > :16:43.that it will not be possibld to hold a referendum before the datd
:16:44. > :16:45.of the Scottish elections Can I put it to the Foreign
:16:46. > :16:53.Secretary that if the referdndum were held within six weeks
:16:54. > :16:57.after the date of the electhons then the two campaign periods
:16:58. > :16:59.would intersect, with all So therefore can I ask him `gain
:17:00. > :17:08.will the date of the referendum be at least six weeks after thd date
:17:09. > :17:11.of the Scottish, Welsh, What I am trying to convey
:17:12. > :17:16.to the honourable gentleman is that that is not what the
:17:17. > :17:20.Bill provides for. The Bill does not place any
:17:21. > :17:23.prohibition on a referendum But ultimately it will be a decision
:17:24. > :17:29.of this House because the d`te will be decided by an SI brought
:17:30. > :17:39.before this House. What's the solution to the problem
:17:40. > :17:42.of obesity in childhood? When peers returned
:17:43. > :17:46.to the long-running subject of overweight youngsters,
:17:47. > :17:50.the Labour fertility expert Lord Winston suggested it mhght
:17:51. > :17:53.actually be a matter of gendtics and might date back
:17:54. > :17:54.hundreds of years. First, a Lib Dem peer said she found
:17:55. > :17:58.it shocking that 29% of British Childhood obesity has becomd
:17:59. > :18:09.the biggest public health challenge for the UK with nearly one third
:18:10. > :18:29.of our ten-year-olds overwehght High sugar consumption means tooth
:18:30. > :18:32.decay is the most common catse of hospital admissions amongst
:18:33. > :18:34.five to nine-year-olds. Half of seven-year-olds havd less
:18:35. > :18:36.than one hour of daily exercise We all know obesity can lead
:18:37. > :18:44.to major adult health probldms. My lords, I think we all recognise
:18:45. > :18:47.and the Prime Minister recognises, that obesity is a scourge
:18:48. > :18:49.in this country. It affects many thousands
:18:50. > :18:51.of young people. Some 2.1 billion people worldwide
:18:52. > :18:53.are overweight or obese. This is a huge global probldm
:18:54. > :19:00.which requires a comprehenshve strategic response, which I hope
:19:01. > :19:03.that our obesity strategy whll be Given the muddles in developing
:19:04. > :19:11.the strategy is his departmdnt talking to the Department
:19:12. > :19:15.for Education because he will understand it is a particul`r issue
:19:16. > :19:19.at primary school level? There is evidence that the hncessant
:19:20. > :19:21.determination of the Governlent to test primary school children
:19:22. > :19:27.at every age and every moment is squeezing the curriculum
:19:28. > :19:30.of playtime and of I hope his department will `ctually
:19:31. > :19:38.talk to the Department for Dducation The Government is committed
:19:39. > :19:43.to continue the PE and sport premium in primary schools
:19:44. > :19:48.because we recognise that physical exercise and playtime at all levels
:19:49. > :19:51.in schools, but particularlx in those early years,
:19:52. > :20:00.are vitally important. Homo sapiens is a species
:20:01. > :20:03.which is programmed to eat Will the Government tell us
:20:04. > :20:11.what estimate they have madd of how much childhood obesity is dte
:20:12. > :20:13.to epigenetic factors rather than simply eating sugar
:20:14. > :20:17.and carbohydrate later on in life? Whether this is not programling
:20:18. > :20:20.earlier in the generation as a result of previous
:20:21. > :20:23.generations' environment? Because this is a very essential
:20:24. > :20:26.point in understanding obeshty. The noble Lord makes a very
:20:27. > :20:32.interesting point to which H cannot give an answer standing
:20:33. > :20:34.here but clearly epigenetic It is not just behavioural,
:20:35. > :20:40.it is the genes that we havd inherited from our
:20:41. > :20:48.forebears as well. Given that we have a differdnt
:20:49. > :20:52.nutrition and life today th`n we had 70,000 years ago would it bd
:20:53. > :20:55.all right if I wrote to the noble Lord after this and
:20:56. > :20:59.explained that more fully? A plea for more recognition
:21:00. > :21:03.of the right of victims of serious driving offences has
:21:04. > :21:06.been made in the Commons Introducing a Bill under
:21:07. > :21:12.the ten-minute rule, Greg Mulholland said victims
:21:13. > :21:14.and their families had been badly let down by the criminal
:21:15. > :21:17.justice system. His Bill would strengthen
:21:18. > :21:19.the penalties given to people guilty of those driving offences that lead
:21:20. > :21:23.to serious injury or death. He believed the term
:21:24. > :21:25.careless driving was A value judgment about the hntention
:21:26. > :21:32.of the perpetrator. Calling driving which falls below
:21:33. > :21:38.any standard dangerous is f`ctual What this Bill is calling for,
:21:39. > :21:43.to be clear, is not getting rid of a lesser sentence
:21:44. > :21:50.for a higher one. It is to scrap both charges
:21:51. > :21:52.and have a system where all dangerous driving is regarddd
:21:53. > :21:55.as a category of offence whhch can Because at the moment their hands
:21:56. > :22:02.are tied once a lesser charge has been brought to the court
:22:03. > :22:04.and families are being faildd up Drivers who kill under the hnfluence
:22:05. > :22:25.of drugs or drink can face tp to 14 years in jail but
:22:26. > :22:27.there is a perversity which is that if a driver flees
:22:28. > :22:31.the scene to sober up it can be impossible to prove,
:22:32. > :22:33.leaving only a hit and run offence. That has the absurdity
:22:34. > :22:35.of incentivising drink and drug drivers to flee the scene
:22:36. > :22:37.and obstruct justice. So hit and run drivers should face
:22:38. > :22:40.the same maximum penalties as other drivers who kill
:22:41. > :22:46.and seriously injure. Without Government support his Bill
:22:47. > :22:50.isn't likely ever to become law Britain must keep up its support
:22:51. > :22:53.for the Global Fund set up ` decade ago with the aim of ending @IDS
:22:54. > :22:56.tuberculosis and malaria The Fund invests nearly four billion
:22:57. > :23:00.US dollars a year to support programmes run by local expdrts
:23:01. > :23:02.in countries and communities that In a debate in Westminster Hall
:23:03. > :23:06.a Conservative former Minister explained the importance
:23:07. > :23:07.of the Global Fund. I do want the Government
:23:08. > :23:10.to appreciate that unless it and its fellow major donors
:23:11. > :23:12.to the fund continue to contribute to it then the progress
:23:13. > :23:16.which we have seen in beating diseases like tuberculosis,
:23:17. > :23:18.which is already too slow, It would be a very
:23:19. > :23:27.serious matter indeed. I established a youth group
:23:28. > :23:29.and through a charity we are building a school
:23:30. > :23:34.in a children's centre which rescues young boys who have grown up as AIDS
:23:35. > :23:37.orphans on the streets, They are only getting rescudd
:23:38. > :23:43.and finally sent to primary school And as others here I have h`d
:23:44. > :23:55.the opportunity to visit Ethiopia in the autumn, and seeing
:23:56. > :24:00.the difference in people who are now on anti-retrovirals who may have
:24:01. > :24:02.HIV, who may even have Aids, but are actually looking
:24:03. > :24:04.after their own families, who are actually taking part
:24:05. > :24:07.in growing their own food, shows the difference that the world
:24:08. > :24:10.was able to make by making a decision to make
:24:11. > :24:12.those drugs available. It has transformed
:24:13. > :24:17.sub-Saharan Africa. And it shows what the world can do
:24:18. > :24:38.when it actually gets together. I was able to speak to patidnts
:24:39. > :24:41.who had undergone and lived They had turned into advocates
:24:42. > :24:45.and they were confident and proud to be able to stand with us and eat
:24:46. > :24:48.with us and explain to us what their life was before they had
:24:49. > :24:51.had this intervention. So I know how important the global
:24:52. > :24:54.fund is in transforming people's lives, and being able to tr`nsform
:24:55. > :24:56.people's lives make a difference It is chilling for me to thhnk
:24:57. > :25:02.upon the suggestion that the statistics make th`t
:25:03. > :25:06.during the course of the 90 minutes of this debate 90 children will have
:25:07. > :25:11.died from malaria, that 45 adolescent girls will have been
:25:12. > :25:17.infected with HIV, and that during the course of this d`y 4 000
:25:18. > :25:23.people will have died of TB. That is on humanitarian grotnds
:25:24. > :25:27.absolutely unacceptable to le and I am sure everyone in this
:25:28. > :25:35.chamber but as has been verx powerfully put this is undermining
:25:36. > :25:38.everything that we're doing to try and lift people out of poverty,
:25:39. > :25:48.to put economies on a Until then, from me,
:25:49. > :25:58.Keith Macdougall, goodbye.