0:00:13 > 0:00:17Hello and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament, our look at the best
0:00:17 > 0:00:19of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21On this programme:
0:00:21 > 0:00:25The Government promises improvements to an NHS
0:00:25 > 0:00:27helpline following the death of a one-year-old boy
0:00:27 > 0:00:30when his parents were told there was nothing to worry about.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34The report says they need to be trained to appreciate
0:00:34 > 0:00:38when there is a need to probe further, how to recognise a complex
0:00:38 > 0:00:43call and when to call in clinical advice earlier.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45The Chairman of UK Athletics suggests British athletes guilty
0:00:45 > 0:00:48of serious doping should be banned for life.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53Athletes guilty of serious doping offences should never in future
0:00:53 > 0:00:57represent Great Britain in athletics.
0:00:57 > 0:01:02And how liberal a politician is the Justice Secretary?
0:01:02 > 0:01:05I'm not sure members on the opposite benches would agree
0:01:05 > 0:01:07that I have become a sandal-wearing,
0:01:07 > 0:01:13muesli-munching vegan vaguester.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15But first, MPs have spoken of the "shocking failings"
0:01:15 > 0:01:16in the case of William Mead.
0:01:16 > 0:01:1812-month-old William, from Cornwall, died
0:01:18 > 0:01:21in December 2014.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23An inquest found that William died from the inflammatory condition,
0:01:23 > 0:01:27sepsis, as a result of a chest infection.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31A report for NHS England said GPs failed to diagnose him.
0:01:31 > 0:01:36But it also said that the youngster might have lived if call handlers
0:01:36 > 0:01:38on the out-of-hours NHS helpline 111 had realised the seriousness
0:01:39 > 0:01:41of his condition.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43In the Commons, the Health Secretary said he was determined
0:01:43 > 0:01:50that the Health Service learn lessons from the case.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52I've met William's mother, Melissa, who has spoken movingly
0:01:52 > 0:01:56about the loss of her son.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00Quite simply, we let her, her family and William down
0:02:00 > 0:02:02in the worst possible way through serious failings
0:02:02 > 0:02:06in the NHS care offered.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08I would like to apologise to them on behalf of the Government
0:02:08 > 0:02:10and the NHS for what happened.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14He said the report's recommendations were far-reaching.
0:02:14 > 0:02:19The report concludes that there were four areas of missed
0:02:19 > 0:02:22opportunity by the local health services, when a different course
0:02:22 > 0:02:26of action should have been taken.
0:02:26 > 0:02:30These include primary care and general practice
0:02:30 > 0:02:33appointments by William's family, out of hours calls with their GP
0:02:33 > 0:02:35and the NHS 111 service.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38Although the report concluded these did not constitute
0:02:38 > 0:02:40direct, serious failings by the individuals involved,
0:02:40 > 0:02:44had different action been taken at these points,
0:02:44 > 0:02:51William would probably have survived.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55There were specific recommendations in relation to NHS 111,
0:02:55 > 0:02:58which should be treated as a national and not a local issue.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02Call advisers are trained not to deviate from the script,
0:03:02 > 0:03:05but the report said they need to be trained to appreciate
0:03:05 > 0:03:10when there is a need to probe further, how to recognise a complex
0:03:10 > 0:03:15call and when to call in clinical advice earlier.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19It also cites limited sensitivity in the algorithms used
0:03:19 > 0:03:25by call handlers to red flag signs related to sepsis.
0:03:25 > 0:03:32The replacement of NHS Direct, predominantly a nurse-led service
0:03:32 > 0:03:34with NHS 111, means the service relies on call handlers who receive
0:03:34 > 0:03:37as little as six weeks of training.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40So when will the Health Secretary review the training call
0:03:40 > 0:03:43handlers receive and will he consider increasing the number
0:03:43 > 0:03:44of clinically trained staff available
0:03:44 > 0:03:48to respond to calls?
0:03:48 > 0:03:51Does the Health Secretary have confidence that the 111 service
0:03:51 > 0:03:53is fit to diagnose patients with complex
0:03:53 > 0:03:56life-threatening problems, who may not always fit the computer
0:03:56 > 0:04:06algorithm call handlers have to rely on?
0:04:09 > 0:04:11I was one of the ministers to set up NHS direct.
0:04:11 > 0:04:18One of the first cases where we had to review the algorithms
0:04:18 > 0:04:19was in a case of meningitis.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21Can I therefore say to the Secretary of
0:04:21 > 0:04:24State that just looking at algorithms with just call
0:04:24 > 0:04:25handlers will not be sufficient.
0:04:25 > 0:04:26It is clinically exceptionally difficult
0:04:26 > 0:04:28and this review is too limited to address the problem.
0:04:28 > 0:04:34Like many deaths in the NHS, it is always sad
0:04:34 > 0:04:37to look and see it was catalogue of missed opportunities, or errors.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40One thing I would like to pick up is young children are very
0:04:40 > 0:04:46hard to assess.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48They are quite hard to assess when you are seeing them.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51They can be running around and then keel over half an hour later.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53I think it would be particularly hard
0:04:53 > 0:04:55to pick up clues over the phone.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57When the NHS Direct services throughout the UK started
0:04:57 > 0:04:59they were based in local out of hours GP centres.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02It meant the nurse could pass the phone and say, can you come
0:05:02 > 0:05:05and chat, I'm not sure.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08We had rules in our local one that if it was a
0:05:08 > 0:05:10young child, they got a visit from the mobile car.
0:05:10 > 0:05:17The Secretary of State said he felt the public had
0:05:17 > 0:05:19confidence in 111 because of the high call volumes
0:05:19 > 0:05:20and they had increased.
0:05:20 > 0:05:25I do not think that is the case.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28I think the confidence is shaky at best and this case could well
0:05:28 > 0:05:29shatter that confidence even further.
0:05:29 > 0:05:39Unlike the confidence we all felt when we had the NHS Direct.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43He will know that we are pressing for a campaign similar to the Fast
0:05:43 > 0:05:47Campaign for Stroke so that early diagnosis can save lives.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Will the Secretary of State now consider very seriously
0:05:50 > 0:05:53funding a campaign such as the Fast Campaign for sepsis,
0:05:53 > 0:05:59because there are thousands of preventable deaths
0:05:59 > 0:06:01which could now be brought about by some simple funding
0:06:01 > 0:06:08so everyone is aware of the signs of sepsis?
0:06:08 > 0:06:12One of the reasons that the number of calls to 111 have trebled
0:06:12 > 0:06:15of course is people find it impossible to get to see the GP.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17As well as the shocking failings of this
0:06:17 > 0:06:20family's GPs in this case, is it not the case the Government
0:06:20 > 0:06:23was warned when it abolished the popular and successful NHS
0:06:23 > 0:06:29Direct of the consequences of that action and
0:06:29 > 0:06:39replacing it with a non-clinician led service?
0:06:39 > 0:06:41Will he look personally at the performance of 111
0:06:41 > 0:06:44in the south-west, which has been bedevilled by failings ever
0:06:44 > 0:06:45since it was set up?
0:06:46 > 0:06:50I would gently say to the honourable gentleman that when it was set up,
0:06:50 > 0:06:52it was set up with the support of the opposition.
0:06:52 > 0:06:53Jeremy Hunt.
0:06:53 > 0:06:56The boss of the company caught up in a row over allegations that
0:06:56 > 0:06:58asylum seekers' houses in Middlesbrough had their front
0:06:58 > 0:07:01doors painted red has said many of the doors were painted 20
0:07:01 > 0:07:04years ago, when the properties were occupied by private tenants.
0:07:04 > 0:07:09Stuart Monk, the owner of housing firm Jomast, told a committee of MPs
0:07:09 > 0:07:12that no asylum seeker had complained to his company about the colour
0:07:12 > 0:07:13of his front door.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24If it is true that your company has painted the doors of asylum seekers
0:07:24 > 0:07:26in red, that of course would be despicable,
0:07:26 > 0:07:27would it not?
0:07:27 > 0:07:32Well, those doors were painted red probably 20 years ago.
0:07:32 > 0:07:3720 years ago, or probably older, over 20 years,
0:07:37 > 0:07:43before the advent of asylum accommodation, in actual fact.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46There was a practice for us to paint the properties those colours
0:07:46 > 0:07:53in those days and when we began to transfer
0:07:53 > 0:07:56the use of those properties by private tenants, we did not
0:07:56 > 0:08:00change the colours.
0:08:00 > 0:08:10If they indeed were painted on the doors of those
0:08:14 > 0:08:17seekers, this would point to perhaps a dark page in history,
0:08:17 > 0:08:19where we would somehow
0:08:19 > 0:08:22identify the doors of certain types of people with a certain colour.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24That is the point I was making.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26If indeed that was the case, that would
0:08:26 > 0:08:27be unacceptable, would it not?
0:08:27 > 0:08:29It would be if that was the case.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31You are telling the committee there was no deliberate decision
0:08:31 > 0:08:33to paint those properties in red?
0:08:33 > 0:08:34Exactly.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37Contrary to what we have seen in the newspapers and contrary
0:08:37 > 0:08:39to what the minister told the House in the
0:08:39 > 0:08:40Commons last week?
0:08:40 > 0:08:41Exactly.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43The Home Office have been inspecting these properties for 20 years.
0:08:43 > 0:08:48They have been well aware that they have been painted red.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50They knew the doors of asylum seekers were being painted red?
0:08:50 > 0:08:52They had been inspecting the properties, yes.
0:08:52 > 0:08:53The Home Office was aware?
0:08:53 > 0:08:58Yes.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01That is very odd because I was speaking to one of your former
0:09:01 > 0:09:08tenants, who was an asylum seeker.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11He told me he had gone to your staff and told you specifically over
0:09:11 > 0:09:13the years, this was two years ago, that he was
0:09:13 > 0:09:17suffering from abuse because the door of his house
0:09:17 > 0:09:21was red and the door of other asylum seekers was also red.
0:09:21 > 0:09:27He then went with a pot of paint and he painted his door white,
0:09:27 > 0:09:31because he was fed up of having people abusing him
0:09:31 > 0:09:33because they identified the property as being the property
0:09:33 > 0:09:35of an asylum seeker.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39Your officers then went round and repainted
0:09:39 > 0:09:40the front door red.
0:09:40 > 0:09:49That is not acceptable behaviour, is it?
0:09:49 > 0:09:52We are not aware of any reported incident regarding giving rise
0:09:52 > 0:09:54to any issues regarding that red door.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57There was no reported incident.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00There has not been a reported incident regarding a red door
0:10:00 > 0:10:03issue received by my company or by G4S in all the time
0:10:03 > 0:10:04that we been providing this service.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06You are in receipt of many millions of pounds
0:10:06 > 0:10:10from the taxpayer, indirectly from G4S.
0:10:10 > 0:10:20Should you not have taken it upon yourself, knowing that this
0:10:21 > 0:10:24contract is one you value, to make sure that you act
0:10:24 > 0:10:26in a humane way and being notified of this you
0:10:26 > 0:10:29should have acted immediately to try and see what was going wrong?
0:10:29 > 0:10:31You are telling us very Pontius Pilate like,
0:10:31 > 0:10:34you had nothing to do with this and you did not
0:10:34 > 0:10:35know about it?
0:10:35 > 0:10:37We have had no reported incidents from any asylum seekers
0:10:37 > 0:10:38regarding doors at all.
0:10:38 > 0:10:39Ever?
0:10:39 > 0:10:40Ever.
0:10:40 > 0:10:46And you have looked at your files?
0:10:46 > 0:10:50Correct.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53You know in giving evidence to committees, if it suddenly turns
0:10:53 > 0:10:54out the committee has been misled, you
0:10:55 > 0:10:56know it is very serious?
0:10:56 > 0:10:57Indeed I do.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01But I'm not aware of any reported issues from asylum seekers
0:11:01 > 0:11:02regarding the issue of red doors.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05A Justice Minister given the job of looking at curbing legal claims
0:11:05 > 0:11:07against British troops return from war has condemned some
0:11:07 > 0:11:09solicitors as "parasitic" and "ambulance chasers".
0:11:09 > 0:11:11Dominic Raab's comments came after the Prime Minister said
0:11:11 > 0:11:13he wanted to "stamp out" what he called "spurious" legal
0:11:13 > 0:11:18claims against British troops.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20Does my right honourable friend share my anger and that
0:11:20 > 0:11:24of my constituent Carol Valentine, whose
0:11:24 > 0:11:32son Simon was tragically killed while serving his country
0:11:32 > 0:11:34in Afghanistan at law firms
0:11:34 > 0:11:36heavily involved in actions against members and serving
0:11:36 > 0:11:37members of our armed forces?
0:11:37 > 0:11:40What action can the Government take to take down this industry,
0:11:40 > 0:11:42which is causing unnecessary distress to our armed forces
0:11:42 > 0:11:43and their families?
0:11:43 > 0:11:45We do share my honourable friend's concerns.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48He will be aware of the announcement on Friday, the professionalism
0:11:48 > 0:11:58of the Armed Forces is second to none, but we cannot
0:12:01 > 0:12:03have returning troops hounded by lawyers pursuing
0:12:03 > 0:12:04spurious claims.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07The Justice Secretary has asked me to chair a working group looking
0:12:07 > 0:12:14at all aspects of this, no-win, no fee, time it's
0:12:14 > 0:12:16claims and the disciplinary sanctions against law firms
0:12:16 > 0:12:19who are bound to be abusing the system so
0:12:19 > 0:12:21that we prevent any malicious or parasitic litigation
0:12:21 > 0:12:22against our brave armed forces.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24Does my right honourable friend agree that people
0:12:24 > 0:12:26in this House will find it despicable that two firms
0:12:26 > 0:12:28and possibly more are actively seeking,
0:12:28 > 0:12:31soliciting in fact, people in Iraq to make spurious and bogus claims
0:12:31 > 0:12:36against our servicemen overseas?
0:12:36 > 0:12:39Will he reject reports in newspapers that we still intend to give legal
0:12:39 > 0:12:44aid to these appalling claims?
0:12:44 > 0:12:49I thank the honourable gentleman.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52He will have heard the remarks I made earlier.
0:12:52 > 0:12:53I am concerned about how the system operates.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56It is important that there is accountability for
0:12:56 > 0:12:59wrongdoing but that does not mean giving lawyers a licence to harass
0:12:59 > 0:13:00our Armed Forces.
0:13:00 > 0:13:06We will look at every angle, including the legal aid
0:13:06 > 0:13:08point he has made as well as no-win and and disciplinary powers
0:13:08 > 0:13:10against lawyers who try to abuse the system.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13Later the Justice Secretary came under fire, from his own side,
0:13:13 > 0:13:15after confirming the appointment of the outgoing Chief Inspector
0:13:15 > 0:13:24of Prisons, Nick Hardwick, as the new head of the Parole Board.
0:13:24 > 0:13:28The Secretary of State made his name as someone who would take on vested
0:13:28 > 0:13:32interests and yet he has gone native in record time and the Secretary
0:13:32 > 0:13:39of State for Justice, including hanging
0:13:39 > 0:13:43off every word of the Howard League for Penal Reform says,
0:13:43 > 0:13:45the NUT of the justice system and reappointed
0:13:45 > 0:13:46Nick Hardwick.
0:13:46 > 0:13:49When will he get back his Mojo and put the victims of crime
0:13:50 > 0:13:51at the heart of what he is doing?
0:13:51 > 0:13:53Come back Ken Clarke, all is forgiven.
0:13:53 > 0:13:58I'm grateful to the member for Shipley.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01I'm not sure members on the opposite benches would agree
0:14:01 > 0:14:02that I have become a sandal-wearing,
0:14:02 > 0:14:07muesli-munching vegan and vaguester.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10I think people will think I was the same blue Tory that
0:14:10 > 0:14:11I always have been.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14It is because I am a conservative that I believe in the rule of law
0:14:14 > 0:14:16as the foundation stone of civilisation.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18Because I am a Conservative I believe evil must be punished.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21It is also because I am a Conservative and a Christian that
0:14:21 > 0:14:24I believe in redemption and I think the purpose of our prison system
0:14:24 > 0:14:27is to keep people safe by making people better.
0:14:30 > 0:14:31Michael Gove.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33You're watching our run-down of the day in the Commons
0:14:34 > 0:14:36Still to come: A possible way forward for the crisis-hit steel
0:14:36 > 0:14:38industry.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42It was one year ago that the scandal of widespread doping by Russian
0:14:42 > 0:14:44athletes was first revealed.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48Since then, there's been reports of cover-ups of doping practices
0:14:48 > 0:14:50by the sport's governing body.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54A parliamentary committee is now investigating the scandal.
0:14:54 > 0:14:57The chairman of UK Athletics has suggested that British athletes
0:14:57 > 0:15:00found guilty of serious doping should be banned
0:15:00 > 0:15:02from competing for life.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05He said it was a measure that the UK could take on its own.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10Which is attempting to ensure that athletes who are guilty of serious
0:15:10 > 0:15:13doping offences never in future represent
0:15:13 > 0:15:16Great Britain in athletics.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20It's not necessarily easy to implement but we're talking
0:15:20 > 0:15:21with our lawyers to do so.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24We've got some announcements quite shortly we'll be able to make that
0:15:24 > 0:15:26show we're moving forward on that one.
0:15:26 > 0:15:30He called for a rethink of some existing athletics world records.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33If you look at a number of world records, they're very old and some
0:15:33 > 0:15:36of them don't have a lot of credibility.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38I'll give you an example.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41The men's shotput record was set in 1990 by an American called
0:15:41 > 0:15:45Randy Barnes and today's athletes can't get within about half a metre
0:15:45 > 0:15:48of his distance.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51He was banned for life from the sport but his record stands
0:15:51 > 0:15:55because the ban came subsequent of setting the record.
0:15:55 > 0:15:56I'll give you another example.
0:15:56 > 0:16:01The women's 400 metre world record from 1985,
0:16:01 > 0:16:04today's athletes can't get within seven metres of that record,
0:16:04 > 0:16:07set by Marita Koch.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10Stasi papers that were subsequently released show that she was
0:16:10 > 0:16:15probably using steroids.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19Today, there's very little incentive for female 400m runners to break
0:16:19 > 0:16:22the world record because it's 50 metres away from them.
0:16:22 > 0:16:26What we would like to do is have a debate about ways
0:16:26 > 0:16:32in which iniquitous records could be expunged and/or event regulations
0:16:32 > 0:16:36could be changed so these records are real again.
0:16:36 > 0:16:40He said European athletics is taking it seriously.
0:16:40 > 0:16:47The issue for me is the watching public at a major event
0:16:47 > 0:16:52and the athletes lining up on the start line or in the field
0:16:52 > 0:16:57have to believe that the records that are standing out there that
0:16:57 > 0:17:00they're chasing as well as chasing victory are credible
0:17:00 > 0:17:05and ultimately beatable.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Maybe not for 10 years or 20 years, but they were set fairly
0:17:08 > 0:17:13and if in certain events that just isn't the case then it is hugely
0:17:13 > 0:17:21unhealthy for the sport and it's been the sort of sin that that
0:17:21 > 0:17:22hasn't spoken its name for so long.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26So if you go to the throwing events now, some of the big throws
0:17:26 > 0:17:32in the discus, the hammer, they mark out in the V the distance
0:17:32 > 0:17:35and they have blocks with the championship record,
0:17:35 > 0:17:39the European record, whatever it might be,
0:17:39 > 0:17:43and often you see the world record is this tiny little flag way out,
0:17:43 > 0:17:46almost as if the sport is too embarrassed to admit that's
0:17:46 > 0:17:50the world record and if you take a young child and they ask
0:17:50 > 0:17:55what that's about, you start to feel very grubby.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58It's been a bad few months for the steel industry.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01More than 4,000 jobs have been lost at steelmaking plants in Redcar,
0:18:01 > 0:18:05Port Talbot, Scunthorpe, Cambuslang and Motherwell.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07The blame has been put on high energy prices,
0:18:07 > 0:18:11the strength of pound and competition from China.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14So how can the crisis in steel be overcome?
0:18:14 > 0:18:17A South Yorkshire Labour MP thinks one solution might lie
0:18:17 > 0:18:19in the shale gas industry.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24In essence, we need to understand that the shale industry offers one
0:18:24 > 0:18:28of those rare opportunities to create a new demand for steel,
0:18:28 > 0:18:32something that we badly need at the moment, a new sense of hope
0:18:32 > 0:18:34therefore for a positive future for what it is one
0:18:34 > 0:18:37of our foundation industries.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40The opportunities for steel as part of the shale gas supply chain focus
0:18:40 > 0:18:43on two main capabilities.
0:18:43 > 0:18:48First of all, the industry could need over 12,000km of high
0:18:48 > 0:18:52quality steel casing costing ?2.3 million,
0:18:52 > 0:18:54as was pointed out earlier.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57The industry could need 50 drilling rigs, costing 1.6
0:18:57 > 0:19:00billion to manufacture.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04As long as fracking is conducted in a balanced and measured way,
0:19:04 > 0:19:08I believe the advantages for our local and national economies
0:19:08 > 0:19:12far outweigh the disadvantages.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14Shale would offer significant opportunities for many UK
0:19:15 > 0:19:16industries.
0:19:16 > 0:19:21It is estimated that it will require ?2.3 billion worth and 12,000
0:19:21 > 0:19:24kilometres of steel.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27Recycling and waste water by domestic businesses will also be
0:19:27 > 0:19:32required and would be a ?4.1 billion opportunity.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35The government policy on shale is that it can make a significant
0:19:35 > 0:19:38contribution to our energy security, environmental protection
0:19:38 > 0:19:44and to economic growth if it is managed carefully
0:19:44 > 0:19:47and regulated responsibly.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50I think that we heard from all sides the House the desire to arrive
0:19:50 > 0:19:53at just that balance between recognising the opportunity
0:19:53 > 0:19:58but dealing with the risks and with legitimate concerns.
0:19:59 > 0:20:00Nick Bowles.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02The government has defended its family test, the measure
0:20:02 > 0:20:05by which every new policy is examined for its impact
0:20:05 > 0:20:07on the family.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11The test is designed to make sure that laws support stable families.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15The Labour peer Lady Lister asked whether changes to welfare limiting
0:20:15 > 0:20:18financial support to two children actually passed that test
0:20:18 > 0:20:22and if the government could provide its reasoning.
0:20:22 > 0:20:27The family test is part of the policy-making process.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31There is a cross-party commitment to embed the family test
0:20:31 > 0:20:34in all domestic policy considerations.
0:20:34 > 0:20:39The Department for Work and Pensions has established a dedicated team
0:20:39 > 0:20:41to support government departments in ensuring the family test
0:20:41 > 0:20:44is applied in a meaningful way.
0:20:44 > 0:20:48The DWP in its guidance to other departments on the family test
0:20:48 > 0:20:53recommends they consider publication of any assessment,
0:20:53 > 0:20:58yet it has rejected calls from family organisations and faith
0:20:58 > 0:21:05groups that it should do so itself on the policy to limit financial
0:21:05 > 0:21:11support to two children under the Welfare Reform and Work Bill.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14Can the noble lady explain why?
0:21:14 > 0:21:17The family test is included and incorporated into advice
0:21:17 > 0:21:20to ministers on new policy.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24It isn't a pass or fail exercise.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27It's about helping make informed decisions about how to support
0:21:28 > 0:21:31strong and stable families.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34It is much broader than a tick box exercise which seems to be
0:21:34 > 0:21:37the thrust of the question.
0:21:37 > 0:21:41She'd adopted three children and the only reason the children
0:21:41 > 0:21:45were placed with her was because she agreed to stay home
0:21:45 > 0:21:47in their early years because the children were damaged.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51Her husband was a vicar and the only way she could afford to give up work
0:21:51 > 0:21:53completely for the children was because of tax credits
0:21:53 > 0:21:55and she got in touch to say, if the government pushes
0:21:55 > 0:21:59through tomorrow the plan to limit child benefit and tax credit
0:21:59 > 0:22:02for the first two children in any family, she would not be able
0:22:02 > 0:22:03to adopt the children in future.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07They would stay in care at the cost of ?40,000 per child per year.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11And Lady Altman replied that this is not a tick box exercise
0:22:11 > 0:22:17and making policy had to include what she called trade-offs.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19So what difference would it have made if Sir Philip Lily,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22the ex-chair of the Environment Agency, had come back early
0:22:22 > 0:22:25from the Caribbean and gone to the scene of serious flooding
0:22:25 > 0:22:27in northern England?
0:22:27 > 0:22:30Sir Philip has now left his top job at the agency after the adverse
0:22:30 > 0:22:34publicity that followed his stay in Barbados at the same time
0:22:34 > 0:22:37as thousands of homes in York and Leeds had been flooded
0:22:37 > 0:22:41amid heavy storms at the end of December.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44The Environment Secretary faced questions about the episode
0:22:44 > 0:22:46at a committee session.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49Frankly, what action could he take?
0:22:49 > 0:22:52There's a cluster of the people going hell for leather trying
0:22:52 > 0:22:54to sort it.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56The last thing you want is the chairman getting
0:22:56 > 0:22:59under your feet.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04Should we be expecting people in his position to drop...
0:23:04 > 0:23:07The reservation was more about the ways in which he handled
0:23:07 > 0:23:11his absence than his absence.
0:23:11 > 0:23:17I do think that the public expect that the leader of an organisation,
0:23:17 > 0:23:20the chairman, to be available.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24That's what Sir Philip felt which is why he stood down
0:23:24 > 0:23:27from the position so I don't see a significant change in that
0:23:27 > 0:23:30expectation if that's what you're asking.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32I'm not completely sure I understand you in terms
0:23:33 > 0:23:35of the level of expectation.
0:23:35 > 0:23:39If Sir Philip had come back 24 hours earlier,
0:23:39 > 0:23:4436 hours earlier, what difference would it have made?
0:23:44 > 0:23:50Would it have made the activity the Environment Agency was involved
0:23:50 > 0:23:55with run smoother or was it actually about presentation?
0:23:55 > 0:23:58Purely the fact that he is in the UK, not the Caribbean.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01He said he should have come back earlier.
0:24:01 > 0:24:02He made that clear.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06He felt that that was an expectation of the role.
0:24:06 > 0:24:11I think it is the expectation of that role.
0:24:11 > 0:24:19It's a public facing role where people expect to see chairmen.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22In terms of the operational response, James Bevan,
0:24:22 > 0:24:26the chief executive, was there with me in Yorkshire
0:24:26 > 0:24:31on Boxing Day and Lancashire as well on Boxing Day and the 27th.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33He was providing excellent leadership on the ground
0:24:33 > 0:24:35on operational issues.
0:24:35 > 0:24:41I think Sir Philip felt himself that that was the expectation of the role
0:24:41 > 0:24:48and that he could not and he has stepped down on that basis.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51Have you made quite clear when you advertise
0:24:51 > 0:24:54for a new chairman that that is part of the role?
0:24:54 > 0:24:56The public face?
0:24:56 > 0:24:59Because I agree with you but I think it needs to be made abundantly clear
0:24:59 > 0:25:00to the new chairman.
0:25:00 > 0:25:05I would suggest that it is clear.
0:25:05 > 0:25:07I think everybody is clear on that.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09Lis Truss.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11Another female Church of England bishop has been introduced
0:25:11 > 0:25:13into the House of Lords.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16The Right Reverend Christine Hardmann becomes only the second
0:25:16 > 0:25:18woman bishop to sit in the Lords.
0:25:18 > 0:25:20She is the Bishop of Newcastle.
0:25:20 > 0:25:25She swore her oath of allegiance in the traditional way.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29I, Christine, Lord Bishop of Newcastle, do swear
0:25:29 > 0:25:35by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance
0:25:35 > 0:25:39to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors according
0:25:39 > 0:25:43to law, so help me God.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46The other female bishop in the House of Lords is the Bishop
0:25:46 > 0:25:49of Gloucester, the Right Reverend Rachel Treweek.
0:25:49 > 0:25:50That's all for this programme.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53Join me for our next daily round-up.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55Until then, from me, goodbye.