0:00:14 > 0:00:17Hello there and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20On this programme: A Treasury assessment of how much it would cost
0:00:20 > 0:00:23the UK to leave the EU is attacked by Conservative Eurosceptics.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25The Foreign Secretary says British troops are not expected to be
0:00:25 > 0:00:33involved in frontline fighting against Islamic extremists in Libya.
0:00:33 > 0:00:40And a call for clearer food labelling in supermarkets.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43The consumer absolutely has the right to know if a cheap cut of
0:00:43 > 0:00:47pork on a supermarket shelf has been reared in banned conditions.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50But first, to Treasury questions in the Commons, where Conservative
0:00:50 > 0:00:53MPs lined up to attack a Government document warning that the economy
0:00:53 > 0:00:56would shrink if the UK left the EU.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59The analysis was published by the Treasury
0:00:59 > 0:01:02on Monday and warned that an EU exit would hit the public
0:01:02 > 0:01:09finances by ?36 billion, with families being ?4,300 a year
0:01:09 > 0:01:12worse off.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16In a bleak assessment, it also stated that the UK economy
0:01:16 > 0:01:20would be 6% smaller than it would otherwise be by 2030.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22The document did get support from the Labour benches.
0:01:22 > 0:01:26Doesn't he agree that those Leave campaigners shouldn't just cross
0:01:26 > 0:01:30their fingers and dismiss reality and that all of us on all sides of
0:01:30 > 0:01:33this House have the duty to spell out the facts that leaving the
0:01:33 > 0:01:41European Union would put real jobs at a real risk?
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Well, the honourable gentleman will be aware of the
0:01:44 > 0:01:46Treasury analysis, published yesterday, but that shows the
0:01:46 > 0:01:49consequences were we to leave the European Union and the various
0:01:49 > 0:01:53models that involve a permanent reduction
0:01:53 > 0:01:57to our GDP and damage to
0:01:57 > 0:02:01productivity growth that would be significant
0:02:01 > 0:02:02and yes, I think the
0:02:02 > 0:02:05honourable gentleman is right to make that point.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08The impact of the EU membership on jobs is obviously
0:02:08 > 0:02:09significant.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11Could the Minister pass my congratulations to the officials
0:02:11 > 0:02:16who have done such a very useful analysis.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18On page 65, there is a regional breakdown which suggests
0:02:18 > 0:02:21that 800,000 jobs in the north-east are dependent on EU exports.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23I had previously thought the figure should
0:02:23 > 0:02:31be 140,000.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Could you ask him to look at it with a view to
0:02:33 > 0:02:35revising it up?
0:02:35 > 0:02:37But a series of Conservative MPs stood up to criticise
0:02:37 > 0:02:40the Treasury's publication.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43The disgraceful, dodgy document published...
0:02:43 > 0:02:45Which, frankly, is worthy of the children's programme,
0:02:45 > 0:02:49Jackanory.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52The immigration figures suggest there will be 3 million
0:02:52 > 0:02:57immigrants to this country by 2030, placing my honourable friend in
0:02:57 > 0:02:59clear breach of the Conservative manifesto to reduce immigration to
0:02:59 > 0:03:07tens of thousands per year.
0:03:07 > 0:03:09How is having a net migration of an additional
0:03:09 > 0:03:123 million people going to
0:03:12 > 0:03:16help first-time buyers find a home?
0:03:16 > 0:03:20Well, as I say, we have the products to help first-time buyers in this
0:03:20 > 0:03:21country afford housing.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24But I make this observation on migration,
0:03:24 > 0:03:26you cannot have access to the single market without accepting free
0:03:26 > 0:03:29movement of people.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31I remember the good old days, Mr Speaker, when the
0:03:31 > 0:03:33Chancellor regarded Treasury predictions as so discredited that
0:03:33 > 0:03:34he established the OBR instead.
0:03:34 > 0:03:36I can't think what could have changed.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40The GDB predictions in his dodgy dossier
0:03:40 > 0:03:43are predicated on breaking our
0:03:43 > 0:03:47manifesto commitment on immigration.
0:03:47 > 0:03:52The cost implications of a new policy of mass migration in areas
0:03:52 > 0:03:54like school places, housing, health and transport
0:03:54 > 0:03:55are not explicit in
0:03:55 > 0:03:58the document.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01Why is that?
0:04:01 > 0:04:02We're having a referendum and people are
0:04:02 > 0:04:04going to take different views on the prospects
0:04:04 > 0:04:06of the United Kingdom going forward.
0:04:06 > 0:04:07But the public want facts and information.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10We have set that out in the analysis produced by the
0:04:10 > 0:04:12Treasury and what we think what the likely impact
0:04:12 > 0:04:15on the economy will be and that analysis has been supported
0:04:15 > 0:04:18now by the London School of Economics, it is giving a similar
0:04:18 > 0:04:25message to that given by the Bank of England about the economic shock
0:04:25 > 0:04:29that will come if we leave and of course
0:04:29 > 0:04:32you have bodies like the
0:04:32 > 0:04:37International Monetary Fund and others saying a similar thing.
0:04:37 > 0:04:38In his documents published yesterday,
0:04:38 > 0:04:40the Chancellor posed the question, "Is our national
0:04:40 > 0:04:41"security best served
0:04:41 > 0:04:43"by retreating from the world?"
0:04:43 > 0:04:44I do hope my right honourable friend is
0:04:44 > 0:04:48not foolish enough to suggest that those of us who wish the United
0:04:48 > 0:04:50Kingdom to leave the EU want to retreat from
0:04:50 > 0:04:51the world, because the
0:04:51 > 0:04:53truth is far from that.
0:04:53 > 0:04:55We want the UK to break free from the
0:04:55 > 0:04:58shackles of the EU and its superstate and embrace the exciting
0:04:58 > 0:05:00state out there which befits the world's fifth largest economy,
0:05:00 > 0:05:03nuclear power and a permanent member of the United Nations Security
0:05:03 > 0:05:06Council.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08Well, of course, I respect my right honourable friend's views,
0:05:08 > 0:05:11we're having a referendum and his vote and my vote count equally.
0:05:11 > 0:05:17I would make the point that our membership of the European Union
0:05:17 > 0:05:21does enhance our national security.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24That is a point made by the Secretary General of Nato last week
0:05:24 > 0:05:26as well.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29And I would just observe that not a single one of this
0:05:29 > 0:05:32country's allies or friends abroad are recommending that we leave the
0:05:32 > 0:05:35EU.
0:05:35 > 0:05:36George Osborne.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39British troops are not expected to be on the front line in Libya,
0:05:39 > 0:05:41the Foreign Secretary has told the Commons.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45Philip Hammond was returning from a meeting with
0:05:45 > 0:05:52the country's new Government of National Accord,
0:05:52 > 0:05:53or GNA.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56He said there was "no appetite" in Libya for foreign combat troops
0:05:56 > 0:05:59fighting in the country.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02But he said it was quite possible air and naval support would be
0:06:02 > 0:06:04requested by Libya, although no request has yet
0:06:04 > 0:06:05been made.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08I am clear that there is no appetite in Libya for any
0:06:08 > 0:06:11combat troops on the ground.
0:06:11 > 0:06:16We do not anticipate any requests from the
0:06:16 > 0:06:19GNA for ground combat forces to take on Daesh or any armed groups
0:06:19 > 0:06:24and we have no plans to deploy troops in such a role.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26I will of course keep the House informed of
0:06:26 > 0:06:31any plans we develop in the future in response to requests from the
0:06:31 > 0:06:33Libyan Government.
0:06:33 > 0:06:37But the type of mission that we currently envisage
0:06:37 > 0:06:40will be focused on providing training and technical support away
0:06:40 > 0:06:43from any front-line operations.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46On this side, we welcome the establishment of the Libyan
0:06:46 > 0:06:49Government of National Accord led by their Prime Minister.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51As the Foreign Secretary said, it faces a
0:06:51 > 0:06:54formidable task in assuring security, restoring public services,
0:06:54 > 0:06:59building up the economy and tackling the threat from Daesh.
0:06:59 > 0:07:04But does the Foreign Secretary agree, that his
0:07:04 > 0:07:08ability to do so will be determined by the extent to which the new
0:07:08 > 0:07:12Government is able to gain support and consent right across Libya
0:07:12 > 0:07:17as it faces the task of re-establishing Government, indeed
0:07:17 > 0:07:19governance, in all parts of the country?
0:07:19 > 0:07:22The Foreign Secretary said the House would be invited to give
0:07:22 > 0:07:25a view if there was a possibility of a combat deployment in the area,
0:07:25 > 0:07:27but not in the case of a training deployment.
0:07:27 > 0:07:32The chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee felt the line
0:07:32 > 0:07:37between the two was pretty slim.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39A coherent British contribution will be easier with the
0:07:39 > 0:07:42consent and understanding of this House.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45It may need to include, for
0:07:45 > 0:07:49example, air strikes on Daesh targets as the training commission
0:07:49 > 0:07:53he has alluded to and I would counsel him that he is dancing on
0:07:53 > 0:07:56pretty thin ground with his differentiation between the training
0:07:56 > 0:08:00mission in a combat zone and not seeking to carry this House with
0:08:00 > 0:08:03him.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07I noticed the language he has used talks about being away from the
0:08:07 > 0:08:10front line of operations, I wonder whether there is anything more he
0:08:10 > 0:08:15can say about that?
0:08:15 > 0:08:18We are very clear that we can make that
0:08:18 > 0:08:20distinction.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22I would draw his attention for example to
0:08:22 > 0:08:25Afghanistan, a kinetic theatre if ever there was one.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28We have a training mission there, which has
0:08:28 > 0:08:32been successfully conducted for the last 15 months
0:08:32 > 0:08:35with great effect.
0:08:35 > 0:08:37Libya has been an unmitigated disaster for this Government.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40We even have a sitting president criticising a sitting UK Prime
0:08:40 > 0:08:42Minister and a humanitarian side where a UN official
0:08:42 > 0:08:43said "It is paltry
0:08:43 > 0:08:49"bone-throwing from a European country whose
0:08:49 > 0:08:51"bombers wreaked so much
0:08:51 > 0:08:53"destruction."
0:08:53 > 0:08:56We do not have a good record on Libya, Mr Speaker.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00It is very easy to sit over there hurling stones.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04The world is an untidy place and we have
0:09:04 > 0:09:08to deal with the situations that present themselves.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11And he talks about humanitarian.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15I would remind him that when we intervened in 2011
0:09:15 > 0:09:19in Libya, it was to prevent an imminent genocide.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22That was a successful intervention that saved
0:09:22 > 0:09:26countless thousands of lives.
0:09:26 > 0:09:27Libya is a rich country, we should not
0:09:27 > 0:09:29forget that.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32There are $70-odd billion worth of Libyan
0:09:32 > 0:09:34assets outside the country, currently frozen by
0:09:34 > 0:09:37the UN Security Council
0:09:37 > 0:09:38Resolution.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39The Foreign Secretary,
0:09:39 > 0:09:43Philip Hammond.
0:09:43 > 0:09:45You're watching Tuesday in Parliament, with me,
0:09:45 > 0:09:50Alicia McCarthy.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53Peers have urged a rethink on new rules on how charities
0:09:53 > 0:09:55spend government grants which, it's claimed,
0:09:55 > 0:09:58amount to making them take a vow of silence.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00From May, charities and other organisations will no longer be
0:10:00 > 0:10:02allowed to spend taxpayers' money on lobbying ministers.
0:10:02 > 0:10:07The Cabinet Office said the new clause in grants would mean
0:10:07 > 0:10:10funds will go to good causes, not political campaigns.
0:10:10 > 0:10:19But at question time in the Lords, many peers were sceptical.
0:10:19 > 0:10:29Does not the minister believe it is an healthy open society
0:10:32 > 0:10:35which not just allows us to actively
0:10:35 > 0:10:37encourage the use of public monies given out
0:10:37 > 0:10:38as grants to question the
0:10:38 > 0:10:40status quo, challenge the Government over the policy when it
0:10:40 > 0:10:43felt necessary and indeed make constructive recommendations for new
0:10:43 > 0:10:43policy?
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Is this an essential aspect of the national public debate?
0:10:46 > 0:10:47This clause threatens that, will damage
0:10:47 > 0:10:49democracy and should be scrapped.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52I'd say there is a fundamental point of principle on
0:10:52 > 0:10:54which I cannot agree with you on, though I know
0:10:54 > 0:10:55holds passionate views on this
0:10:55 > 0:10:56subject.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59This is about making sure that the many billions of pounds
0:10:59 > 0:11:01that the taxpayer's money that goes to grant
0:11:01 > 0:11:02recipient is spent on the
0:11:02 > 0:11:05original allocation of that grant and does not find its way into
0:11:05 > 0:11:07political lobbying and campaigning.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10Should we not remember that this public money has come from taxation
0:11:10 > 0:11:15from people, well-off people, poor people and other people throughout
0:11:15 > 0:11:18the kingdom?
0:11:18 > 0:11:21The money is there to be granted for useful purposes.
0:11:21 > 0:11:26It is not there to pay for campaigning
0:11:26 > 0:11:30and lobbying with public money, if people want that.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32And I've lobbied
0:11:32 > 0:11:36and given money for lobbying, but that was not public money.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38Is it not important we are on the side of
0:11:38 > 0:11:41freedom?
0:11:41 > 0:11:45And is it not true that almost universally, what the
0:11:45 > 0:11:48Government intends to do is seen to be a bar to the freedom of
0:11:48 > 0:11:51expression?
0:11:51 > 0:11:54This anti-lobbying cause is going to have a serious impact on
0:11:54 > 0:11:59research, since most people do research in order to influence
0:11:59 > 0:12:01policy and have policy more evidence-based.
0:12:01 > 0:12:06And is it not odd that this does not apply in any way to restrict
0:12:06 > 0:12:11Government-funded lobbying and not to commercial lobbying at all?
0:12:11 > 0:12:15Should not its real emphasis be on the
0:12:15 > 0:12:20control of abuse of funds, like Kids Company?
0:12:20 > 0:12:22Would it not be wise in the present circumstances to
0:12:22 > 0:12:26postpone the application of this new agreement until after the 1st
0:12:26 > 0:12:31of May so that further consultation could
0:12:31 > 0:12:34take place on this very important threat to the freedom of research
0:12:34 > 0:12:37and speech?
0:12:37 > 0:12:39I hear what the Noble Lord is saying and I have certainly
0:12:39 > 0:12:43received the other ministers and their
0:12:43 > 0:12:44concerns over research and the
0:12:44 > 0:12:46academic community and let me tell you,
0:12:46 > 0:12:47clearly, the implementation of
0:12:47 > 0:12:50this particular clause as regards science and research is a matter for
0:12:50 > 0:12:53the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55And let me tell you that this is not
0:12:55 > 0:12:58the department's nor the Government's intention for research
0:12:58 > 0:13:01councils the higher education funding councils
0:13:01 > 0:13:02or the National academies
0:13:02 > 0:13:04to be covered by this clause.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06Ministers are continuing to exchange with
0:13:06 > 0:13:08the National Research Council, they will outline the detail
0:13:08 > 0:13:13by the 1st of May.
0:13:13 > 0:13:15Staying in the Lords, the Government has announced a concession over
0:13:16 > 0:13:19Trade Union funding.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22Ministers were planning to end the collection
0:13:22 > 0:13:24of union subs directly from employees' pay packets,
0:13:24 > 0:13:27known as check-off.
0:13:27 > 0:13:31Now the practice will continue if the employer and the union agree.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33Lord Bridges made the concession at the start of the day's
0:13:33 > 0:13:34debate on the bill.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36I've been a member of your lordship's house
0:13:36 > 0:13:40for a little under a year.
0:13:40 > 0:13:44One of the many lessons I've learned is that when ministers stand
0:13:44 > 0:13:47at this Dispatch Box and face cannons to left of them,
0:13:47 > 0:13:49cannons to the right and cannons in front of them...
0:13:49 > 0:13:51LAUGHTER
0:13:51 > 0:13:56..and maybe even behind them, it is usually best to pause
0:13:56 > 0:13:59and to ask the reason why.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02And, uncomfortable though this may be,
0:14:02 > 0:14:07it is nothing like as uncomfortable as charging on.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10Arguments have been made with considerable vim and
0:14:10 > 0:14:13vigour that by ending check-off and moving
0:14:13 > 0:14:17to direct debit, those on low pay and,
0:14:17 > 0:14:21especially those who have payday loans, might have to cease
0:14:21 > 0:14:26being trade-union members or have to pay extra bank charges.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28Again, my lords, this is not our intention and
0:14:28 > 0:14:34never has been.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37And to show that the Government means this and to avoid
0:14:37 > 0:14:39further acrimony on this issue, the Government will support the
0:14:39 > 0:14:44principles behind Lord Balfe's Amendment.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Amendment 21 would allow check-off to remain where there is
0:14:47 > 0:14:51an agreement with the employer to provide check-off.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53It sets out how the administration of this would be
0:14:53 > 0:14:56paid for and allows that employees can be paid by other means
0:14:56 > 0:14:57should they wish.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59So, my lords, this amendment ticks three boxes.
0:14:59 > 0:15:01Cost - which will be borne by the unions,
0:15:01 > 0:15:03not the taxpayers - consistency across all
0:15:03 > 0:15:07sectors and control.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Individuals will be able to choose how to pay their union.
0:15:10 > 0:15:14The change of heart was warmly welcomed by Labour.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18My lords, check-off is trusted by trade-union members, it
0:15:18 > 0:15:21helps them manage their finances.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25As the noble Lords have stressed, thousands of low paid members across
0:15:25 > 0:15:27the public sector, who need the choice to opt
0:15:27 > 0:15:28for check-off, will be greatly
0:15:28 > 0:15:31relieved that it is to continue and that they won't stand to lose their
0:15:31 > 0:15:35eligibility to workplace representation and for
0:15:35 > 0:15:36key trade-union benefits, such as those detailed
0:15:36 > 0:15:38so fully in committee by the
0:15:38 > 0:15:40noble Lord Balfe, including professional-indemnity insurance,
0:15:40 > 0:15:43legal representation for accidents at work and unemployment issues.
0:15:43 > 0:15:47Lady Wheeler.
0:15:47 > 0:15:51Next week, MPs will consider a call from the Lords for the UK to take
0:15:51 > 0:15:54in 3,000 unaccompanied child refugees.
0:15:54 > 0:15:57In a short debate, MPs from all sides urged ministers
0:15:57 > 0:16:00to act with compassion, particularly in respect
0:16:00 > 0:16:02of children in the Jungle, the refugee
0:16:02 > 0:16:06camp near Calais.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10One MP spoke of the nightmare her four-year-old experienced recently.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13He had all of his favourite toys around
0:16:13 > 0:16:17him, he had his own pyjamas on, he was in his own bed and he knew
0:16:17 > 0:16:20that his mum and dad were just along the corridor
0:16:20 > 0:16:22able to come in and give him the comfort
0:16:22 > 0:16:23and support he needed.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25The horror and terror that unaccompanied children must
0:16:25 > 0:16:28experience is unimaginable.
0:16:28 > 0:16:30Refugee children are waking from their
0:16:30 > 0:16:32nightmares and finding that real life is worse.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34If the British people are
0:16:34 > 0:16:37there, then so should be this Government.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39This is not France's problem.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Our compassion, our Dunkirk spirit and geographical proximity
0:16:41 > 0:16:44have made it our problem as well.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46So I urge the Minister to do everything
0:16:46 > 0:16:50in his power, find those children before it is too late and bring them
0:16:50 > 0:16:51home for good.
0:16:51 > 0:16:53We're in a situation today where there are children
0:16:53 > 0:16:55being...
0:16:55 > 0:17:01Failing to be supported in Europe. They are all over the place.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03In Lesbos they are being fed by sandwiches being thrown
0:17:03 > 0:17:06over a fence. It is unacceptable.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09I spoke to a mother who had put her two
0:17:09 > 0:17:13young children, aged two and seven, on the back of a truck with
0:17:13 > 0:17:16the hope that they would make it to the UK.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19I don't know if they did, she will never know
0:17:19 > 0:17:21where these children are.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24This is the emotion of the debate and this is the reality.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28Keeping people in squalor is no deterrent, it merely dehumanises.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30The French authorities need to speed up decision-making, ensure
0:17:30 > 0:17:33reunification happens swiftly, if appropriate.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37To do the right thing should be possible in Europe.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39It is being recognised that we, in this country,
0:17:39 > 0:17:41are making decisions more swiftly,
0:17:41 > 0:17:43that is to be welcomed but I,
0:17:43 > 0:17:46like many other members here, want to see more.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49The target that Save The Children and others and my
0:17:49 > 0:17:54honourable friend, the member for Westmorland and Lonsdale, has
0:17:54 > 0:17:57advocated in his blueprint for 3000, that is 3000 children, is an
0:17:57 > 0:17:58attainable target.
0:17:58 > 0:18:04I think it would make a very substantial contribution
0:18:04 > 0:18:07at an EU level towards dealing with the many thousands, 30,000 or so,
0:18:07 > 0:18:09unaccompanied children who are already in the United Kingdom.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12The Government must offer these children
0:18:12 > 0:18:16not just a temporary safe haven but a lasting solution and the
0:18:16 > 0:18:19opportunity to make the UK a safe and secure childhood home.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22But there were words of caution too.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25It would be, I think, no justice to those who
0:18:25 > 0:18:28need the support and the help and the friendship of this country to
0:18:28 > 0:18:30bring them here without those adequate
0:18:30 > 0:18:32support mechanisms in place.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35So I hope that the Government will take the opportunity not only
0:18:35 > 0:18:38to formulate its plans but to seek and receive the endorsement of
0:18:38 > 0:18:41Save The Children and the UNHCR.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43The minister focused on the calls for the UK
0:18:43 > 0:18:46to resettle more children.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50I do intend to follow through on the statement
0:18:50 > 0:18:53that I made at the end of January and come forward with a clearer
0:18:53 > 0:18:56statement to Parliament in the coming days.
0:18:56 > 0:18:57I recognise the call for the Government
0:18:57 > 0:19:02to take more action.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05The UK has been working with the UNHCR around this issue and we
0:19:05 > 0:19:08will be doing more.
0:19:08 > 0:19:13James Brokenshire.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17Only 10% of dogs bought in the UK are from registered breeders.
0:19:17 > 0:19:21The Environment Food and Rural Affairs committee
0:19:21 > 0:19:23heard that the vast majority come from abroad
0:19:23 > 0:19:26or from unlicensed operators.
0:19:26 > 0:19:31The demand for fashionable breeds, such as French bulldogs,
0:19:31 > 0:19:34was driving a demand that could not be easily met and that meant many
0:19:34 > 0:19:37animals were suffering ill health.
0:19:37 > 0:19:42We estimate that 70,000, which is only 10% of the
0:19:42 > 0:19:45puppy market, are born to registered British breeders and the remainder
0:19:45 > 0:19:49come from either imports or unlicensed breeders and we can't be
0:19:49 > 0:19:53specific again in the numbers there other than we do have an idea that
0:19:53 > 0:19:56the unlicensed breeders is circa 400,000.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58Can you describe how the
0:19:58 > 0:20:03pet-travel scheme is being exploited?
0:20:03 > 0:20:05And perhaps what remedies there might be to prevent the abuse
0:20:05 > 0:20:07that is existing? Absolutely.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10What we're finding is that there are clearly
0:20:10 > 0:20:11some breeds of puppies that
0:20:11 > 0:20:14are desirable in the UK.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16Those breeds are being bred in Eastern
0:20:16 > 0:20:19European countries, for example Hungary, Lithuania, Romania.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23The conditions are shocking.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27The provenance of the parents is not good.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30For example, I saw some papers not long ago of puppies where it had
0:20:30 > 0:20:32actually been sibling mating.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35They are being transported by road across
0:20:35 > 0:20:38to the UK, a trip of some 40 hours.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40And they are actually being brought into the country under the
0:20:40 > 0:20:41pet-travel scheme, which is non-commercial
0:20:41 > 0:20:46movement rather than commercial movement.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48The worry with that is passports are actually being
0:20:48 > 0:20:50falsified, so obviously the minimum age of entry to the UK
0:20:50 > 0:20:52should be 15 weeks.
0:20:52 > 0:20:53Frequently these puppies are coming in at
0:20:53 > 0:20:55eight and ten weeks of age.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Last year, we received 3500 calls with regard puppy-farm issues,
0:20:58 > 0:21:03which was a 122% increase.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05The sad fact is that 80% of these puppies were
0:21:05 > 0:21:13sold through an internet advert of some description.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16The dreadful fact that comes out of ir is over 20%
0:21:16 > 0:21:18of those puppies then actually die. The mortality is incredibly high.
0:21:18 > 0:21:24Puppies are often sick at the point of sell,
0:21:24 > 0:21:26--Puppies are often sick at the point of sale,
0:21:26 > 0:21:27which people don't know.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30And I think some of the points that the chairman and others have raised
0:21:30 > 0:21:32today, when the animal gets home, the impact
0:21:32 > 0:21:35to the family is dreadful. So the consumer rights are affected.
0:21:35 > 0:21:37Of course, there is the welfare of the
0:21:37 > 0:21:40animal, which is clearly not good and it leads to very, very high
0:21:40 > 0:21:41levels of euthanasia.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43How is the demand for pedigree or designer dogs
0:21:43 > 0:21:45driving the puppy trade?
0:21:45 > 0:21:49It is an issue of supply and demand, obviously.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53In many breeds, the demand for puppies is about right.
0:21:53 > 0:21:58Where it becomes a problem, is where the demand for
0:21:58 > 0:22:01certain breeds outstrips supply and the fact is that puppy buyers
0:22:01 > 0:22:09don't know where to go to find a good breeder.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12You heard some examples earlier on of the popularity of
0:22:12 > 0:22:14breeds and I can add something to that, perhaps.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16French Bulldogs, for example, which we heard about
0:22:16 > 0:22:18a little earlier, in 2006 the kennel club were registering
0:22:19 > 0:22:21526 in that year.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26Last year we registered 14,500, over 14,500.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29So there has been an enormous increase in
0:22:29 > 0:22:34demand for those dogs. Consequently, the price has gone up.
0:22:34 > 0:22:39The price of a French Bulldog ten years ago was roundabout ?800.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43We saw peaks of around ?3000, ?4000.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46These days it is fair to say the biggest
0:22:46 > 0:22:48drivers for popularity of breed are other factors.
0:22:48 > 0:22:49Celebrity influence, for example.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51We believe that is what is happening
0:22:51 > 0:22:53with French Bulldogs.
0:22:53 > 0:22:55Even going back many years, if you take the corgi,
0:22:55 > 0:22:57for example.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00In 1960, the kennel club was registering 8000 corgis a
0:23:00 > 0:23:05year, now we register less than 300.
0:23:05 > 0:23:09And we believe that is probably due to, in the '60s, the Queen had
0:23:09 > 0:23:11a celebrity status.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13You were seeing pictures of her with her dogs and
0:23:13 > 0:23:15her children and that has perhaps been overtaken
0:23:15 > 0:23:18by other celebrity factors.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22Do you know where the meat you buy in the supermarket comes from?
0:23:22 > 0:23:28Well, a Conservative MP is calling for clearer mandatory labelling.
0:23:28 > 0:23:30Animal welfare standards are set across the EU
0:23:30 > 0:23:33and apply to all sorts of farm livestock.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35But it's claimed that, unlike the UK, not all
0:23:35 > 0:23:39countries enforce them.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43A Conservative MP argued that a lack of labelling meant consumers
0:23:43 > 0:23:45couldn't buy British in confidence and could even be
0:23:45 > 0:23:48misled by supermarkets.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50What I'm arguing for today, Mr Speaker, is more transparency.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52So that the British consumer can make a
0:23:52 > 0:23:54more informed decision about what they are buying.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58Farm-to-fork traceability.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00Our current situation is a confusing mixture of voluntary
0:24:00 > 0:24:03standards bolted onto EU legislation, with some products
0:24:03 > 0:24:04offering greater clarity of origin and
0:24:04 > 0:24:14production standards than others.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18Consumers do care about how their animals in the food chain have been
0:24:18 > 0:24:19cared for during their short lives.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22There are specific EU requirements on keeping of calves, pigs,
0:24:22 > 0:24:23laying hens and broilers.
0:24:23 > 0:24:24The EU banned conventional cramped cages for
0:24:24 > 0:24:27laying hens in 2012 and specifically phased out the use of individual
0:24:27 > 0:24:30stalls for pregnant sows in 2013.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32These are appallingly stressful stalls keep pregnant sows caged,
0:24:32 > 0:24:34usually on concrete, so they cannot move about.
0:24:34 > 0:24:36They cut farmers' costs but were banned for cruelty reasons
0:24:36 > 0:24:39in the UK in 1999.
0:24:39 > 0:24:41They were specifically banned in the rest of
0:24:41 > 0:24:43the EU from the start of 2013.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46But, shockingly, more than two years on
0:24:46 > 0:24:49from the ban of these stalls on cruelty grounds, six EU countries
0:24:49 > 0:24:51are still officially noncompliant with their
0:24:51 > 0:24:54own key welfare standards.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57The consumer absolutely has the right to know if a
0:24:57 > 0:25:00cheap cut of pork on a supermarket shelf has been reared
0:25:00 > 0:25:00in banned conditions.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03Anne Main.
0:25:03 > 0:25:08Finally, it's congratulations to parliamentary veteran John Thurso.
0:25:08 > 0:25:13The Liberal Democrat hereditary peer quit the Upper House to stand
0:25:13 > 0:25:16as an MP and was a member of the Commons from 2001
0:25:16 > 0:25:21until he lost his seat last year.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24But the former member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross will now
0:25:24 > 0:25:25return to the Lords.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27He's won a by-election to take a seat as
0:25:27 > 0:25:29a Lib Dem hereditary peer.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32It's not perhaps the toughest poll he's ever faced,
0:25:32 > 0:25:35with only three people entitled to vote to decide who
0:25:35 > 0:25:39should fill the vacancy.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43And that's it for now but do join me at the same time tomorrow when,
0:25:43 > 0:25:45among other things, we'll have the highlights from prime
0:25:45 > 0:25:46minister's questions.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49Until then, from me, Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.