0:00:04 > 0:00:06Hello and welcome to Tuesday In Parliament,
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Hello and welcome to Tuesday In Parliament,
0:00:15 > 0:00:18our look at the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:18 > 0:00:19On this programme:
0:00:19 > 0:00:21The controversial boss of Sports Direct admits his firm
0:00:21 > 0:00:29grew too fast for him to control every part of it.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32It's like going out one day and you've got a tiny,
0:00:32 > 0:00:34little inflatable, and you're in control, and the next,
0:00:34 > 0:00:42wake up one morning and you're on an oil tanker.
0:00:42 > 0:00:43Entering the referendum fray.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46The Archbishop of Canterbury says Ukip leader MP Nigel Farage has
0:00:46 > 0:00:53given "legitimisation to racism" for political ends.
0:00:53 > 0:00:54That is accentuating fear for political gain
0:00:55 > 0:00:58and that is absolutely inexcusable.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00And is it the wrong sort of water?
0:01:00 > 0:01:02The Defence committee learns of problems facing Type-45
0:01:02 > 0:01:06destroyers in the Gulf.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Why should it have come as such a surprise that there would be these
0:01:10 > 0:01:13sorts of climatic demands and obstacles to be overcome
0:01:13 > 0:01:18by a new design of ship?
0:01:18 > 0:01:20But first, for weeks he's refused to come to Westminster.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23But when the founder of Sports Direct, Mike Ashley,
0:01:23 > 0:01:27finally did appear, to face the questions of MPs,
0:01:27 > 0:01:31he provided a candid and plain-speaking performance.
0:01:31 > 0:01:35The sporting retailer Sports Direct, whose headquarters are at Shirebrook
0:01:35 > 0:01:39in Derbyshire, had faced accusations of a harsh regime,
0:01:39 > 0:01:43forcing many of its employees to accept low rates of pay
0:01:43 > 0:01:48and work in poor conditions, inside a tough disciplinary system.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50The controversial Mr Ashley, who's also the chairman
0:01:50 > 0:01:55of Newcastle United Football Club, admitted at the Business Committee
0:01:55 > 0:02:01that the firm may have outgrown his ability to manage it.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03People always ask me about Sports Direct,
0:02:03 > 0:02:08"How can you manage it?
0:02:08 > 0:02:12How can you...
0:02:12 > 0:02:15Mike, I'm not being funny, it's a lot bigger than you and it's
0:02:15 > 0:02:19a lot bigger than your capabilities to manage it," and you say, "Yes,
0:02:19 > 0:02:21but it grows, it grows itself, it becomes its own thing."
0:02:21 > 0:02:23I didn't build Sports Direct, Sports Direct built me,
0:02:23 > 0:02:25you understand?
0:02:25 > 0:02:27It's like going out one day, you've got a tiny, little inflatable,
0:02:27 > 0:02:31and you are in control, and the next thing,
0:02:31 > 0:02:33you wake up one morning, and you're on an oil tanker,
0:02:33 > 0:02:37and that oil tanker, you can't be all over that oil tanker,
0:02:37 > 0:02:40and if there is a problem on that oil tanker, by the way,
0:02:40 > 0:02:43you are still responsible, as ultimately I am always
0:02:43 > 0:02:45responsible for Sports Direct.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47I am aware of that.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50The docking of 15 minutes' pay if you're a little bit late.
0:02:50 > 0:02:51Yes.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53Who set that up in the first place?
0:02:53 > 0:02:54I honestly don't know, is the truth.
0:02:55 > 0:02:56I don't know when that started.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58It definitely wasn't a policy that I put in,
0:02:58 > 0:03:00because I actually don't believe it's fair.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02If you ask me, I don't believe it's fair.
0:03:02 > 0:03:03Thank you...
0:03:03 > 0:03:07I mean, if one of my kids went to work somewhere and they were two
0:03:07 > 0:03:09minutes late and were fined 15 minutes' pay, I wouldn't be
0:03:09 > 0:03:10very impressed by that.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13I think that's unreasonable.
0:03:13 > 0:03:17Criticising workers over the tannoy for not working hard enough.
0:03:17 > 0:03:22Now, this, I think, is a bit of a myth.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26It's not something I was aware of did happen, but if it did happen,
0:03:26 > 0:03:29I would like to think it doesn't happen any more.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33We heard from a woman who said, and I quote,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36this was said to her, and I quote, "If you want to get
0:03:36 > 0:03:41a contract, we can talk about it over dinner."
0:03:41 > 0:03:46She also said, not just one manager, but several, and she said
0:03:46 > 0:03:48so and then broke down in tears.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51That is not kind, is it?
0:03:51 > 0:03:53No, that's the total opposite of kind.
0:03:53 > 0:03:57That's some type of sexual predators that need to be dealt with.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01But do you accept that this is happening in your business,
0:04:01 > 0:04:04the business you created, that is shaped in your image,
0:04:04 > 0:04:08this is happening in your business.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10Well, it shouldn't.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13If it does, it 100% should not be going on.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17I don't know what I'm going to be able to put in place to stop it,
0:04:17 > 0:04:20but at least I'm going to try.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23You sit there and say those things to me, honestly,
0:04:23 > 0:04:24they are repugnant, they're disgusting,
0:04:24 > 0:04:26what do you want me to say?
0:04:26 > 0:04:31Would you like it if you were me?
0:04:31 > 0:04:33Well, the point is, it's not happening in Sainsbury's.
0:04:33 > 0:04:34But how do you know?
0:04:34 > 0:04:35It's happening in Sports Direct.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37Are you certain it's not happening in Sainsbury's?
0:04:37 > 0:04:38Are you absolutely sure?
0:04:38 > 0:04:41You can sit here and say there's no sexual harassment
0:04:41 > 0:04:44happening in Sainsbury's?
0:04:44 > 0:04:45The difference here...
0:04:45 > 0:04:47I think there probably is.
0:04:47 > 0:04:56..the way you avoid people, the management structure you have
0:04:56 > 0:04:59-- ..the way you employed people, the management structure you have
0:04:59 > 0:05:02in place, the training that you have put in place for the managers,
0:05:02 > 0:05:05the fact that you have 200 permanent staff and 2,000 who are temporary
0:05:05 > 0:05:09with a high churn rate on very low pay, many of them quite vulnerable
0:05:09 > 0:05:11people, some of whom have come from abroad, you know,
0:05:11 > 0:05:13this is a culture that is ripe for exploitation.
0:05:13 > 0:05:14Yes, we shouldn't have it.
0:05:14 > 0:05:15I agree with you.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18So are you now committing to a review of the way
0:05:18 > 0:05:19you do business?
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Guys, I'm coming here today to listen, and one of the reasons
0:05:22 > 0:05:25I agreed to come, whether or not I think I ought to or not
0:05:25 > 0:05:27is a different subject, is to make a difference.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30Do you think your company has outgrown your ability to manage it?
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Probably, a long time ago.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35And I realise, even though I set up a tiny company in the past,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38which has remained tiny, and I'm an MP that no-one's ever
0:05:38 > 0:05:42heard of talking to a titan of the business sector,
0:05:43 > 0:05:44but is it not time that...
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Your analogy is, you woke up one day, and your little
0:05:47 > 0:05:49business was an oil tanker.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52Well, you know, if you gone from a dinghy to an oil tanker,
0:05:52 > 0:05:55shouldn't you get someone who knows how to sail and drive an oil tanker?
0:05:56 > 0:05:57Possibly, possibly.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00I can accept the criticism.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03Some of the things you've said to me today would actually lead me
0:06:03 > 0:06:05to believe that it's definitely outgrown me.
0:06:05 > 0:06:09He moved on to the employment of casual labour.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13With respect, it would be amazingly difficult, naive, impossible,
0:06:13 > 0:06:16to have grown as we've grown in the last ten years
0:06:16 > 0:06:18and take all the people on directly ourselves.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21I'm telling you, we couldn't have done it.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23So I'm being honest with you, and I am saying, we
0:06:23 > 0:06:26could not have done it.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29It would have been physically impossible.
0:06:29 > 0:06:31No one could predict that internet growth.
0:06:31 > 0:06:32It came out of nowhere.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35Literally nowhere.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39And it requires ten times the people that retail does.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41Lots of organisations have grown and given employees
0:06:41 > 0:06:43permanent contracts.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45Why is it so difficult for you?
0:06:45 > 0:06:47I have given a lot of people permanent contracts.
0:06:47 > 0:06:50You're not being fair now.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53Now you're not being fair, you're trying to twist what I'm saying,
0:06:53 > 0:06:55and that's not fair, and that's why I fear coming
0:06:55 > 0:06:58to things like this, because you're trying to put words
0:06:58 > 0:07:00in my mouth and you're trying to twist what I'm saying.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04I am telling you, it was physically impossible over the last ten years
0:07:04 > 0:07:09to have done what we've had to do with that amount of people
0:07:09 > 0:07:14unless we went to external agencies who were professionals.
0:07:14 > 0:07:19So you have to accept, the internet growth was a phenomenon
0:07:19 > 0:07:22that none of us could have allowed for, and you have to accept,
0:07:22 > 0:07:26well, I have to accept, not you, sorry, that Sports Direct
0:07:26 > 0:07:29have made some mistakes, you have to accept that as well,
0:07:29 > 0:07:31so we have to look to the future.
0:07:31 > 0:07:36I've offered you guys to come any time you want now, I've even offered
0:07:36 > 0:07:40to come back in a year if you really want me to,
0:07:40 > 0:07:43and let's do some measures, and I can't get it it all right,
0:07:43 > 0:07:46impossible that I can get everything right, I am one human being,
0:07:46 > 0:07:49so stop it, please, OK?
0:07:49 > 0:07:53Let's keep this positive and let's keep rolling forward.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56Well, I'm trying to ask honest and straightforward questions.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59And a word about British Home Stores.
0:07:59 > 0:08:01Did you want to buy BHS?
0:08:01 > 0:08:05Again, I don't think...
0:08:05 > 0:08:09It is unfair, I think it's a no comment as it is now.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13OK, well, that's fine, Mr Ashley, thank you very much for your time.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17I can't resist it, 100%, I wanted to buy BHS.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19You wanted to buy BHS?
0:08:19 > 0:08:20LAUGHTER.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23OK, OK, now I'm going to get told off by everybody.
0:08:23 > 0:08:24And why was that stopped?
0:08:24 > 0:08:28Ian, please, I'm already...
0:08:28 > 0:08:31That's why I'm not City-trained, that's why they say they can't
0:08:31 > 0:08:36house-train me, because I just am that person, you ask me something,
0:08:36 > 0:08:38I blurt out the answer, you ask me another one
0:08:38 > 0:08:43and we'll keep going.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Now, only six parliamentary days to go before the referendum
0:08:46 > 0:08:48on EU membership.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50Will it be a victory for Remain?
0:08:50 > 0:08:52Or a triumph for Leave?
0:08:52 > 0:08:54Voting is on June the 23rd.
0:08:54 > 0:08:59The final session of Treasury questions in the Commons saw
0:08:59 > 0:09:02the Chancellor George Osborne declare that a British exit
0:09:02 > 0:09:05from the EU would weaken the Government's plans to boost
0:09:05 > 0:09:07the economies of the cities of the North, known
0:09:07 > 0:09:11as the Northern Powerhouse.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14The Minister for the Northern Powerhouse James Wharton
0:09:14 > 0:09:22is supporting the campaign for Britain to Leave the EU.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25Recent figures showed a 9.6% drop in the value of new construction
0:09:25 > 0:09:27project starts in the so-called Northern Powerhouse
0:09:27 > 0:09:28to the end of 2015.
0:09:28 > 0:09:29Interestingly, despite the Chancellor's rhetoric
0:09:29 > 0:09:32on investment, much of the public capital invested thus far has
0:09:32 > 0:09:34actually been delivered by the EU.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37Would he therefore disagree with his own minister
0:09:37 > 0:09:41for the Northern Powerhouse, who said recently that Brexit
0:09:41 > 0:09:46will not affect Greater Manchester's vision and access to funding?
0:09:46 > 0:09:49Well, as she well knows, I certainly think Britain
0:09:49 > 0:09:52is stronger in the EU and that helps the Northern Powerhouse.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55But I would make this observation - investment projects in the North
0:09:55 > 0:09:59of England are up over 100% in the last two years
0:09:59 > 0:10:03and that is actually in striking contrast to some other...
0:10:03 > 0:10:05To give you a sense of scale, for example, investment projects
0:10:05 > 0:10:08in London, it is welcome, but they are up 7%
0:10:08 > 0:10:09in the last two years.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11In the Northern Powerhouse, up 127%.
0:10:11 > 0:10:16So we are rebalancing the economic geography of this country.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19The Chancellor mentioned transport investment yet his government has
0:10:19 > 0:10:22presided over a situation where there is 24 times more
0:10:22 > 0:10:27transport investment in London than in the north.
0:10:27 > 0:10:31First of all, it is quite right that we invest in major transport
0:10:31 > 0:10:34infrastructure in our capital city, which we have done with Crossrail
0:10:34 > 0:10:41but that is not to the exclusion of investment elsewhere in our country.
0:10:41 > 0:10:43In her part of the north-west, of course, there has been
0:10:43 > 0:10:45a massive investment in electrification of the railways.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47And I might note that under a Labour government,
0:10:47 > 0:10:50only ten miles of the entire railways of the country
0:10:50 > 0:10:52were electrified.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55We've got HS2, which will help with fast train
0:10:55 > 0:10:57journeys to Merseyside as well as to Manchester.
0:10:57 > 0:10:59And now with the new Merseyside Mayor agreed,
0:10:59 > 0:11:02we can go on pouring more money into the infrastructure
0:11:02 > 0:11:04of Merseyside so we support the private businesses
0:11:04 > 0:11:08in the Merseyside area to grow and create jobs
0:11:08 > 0:11:12in the private sector there.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15For the first time, an Archbishop of Canterbury has given evidence
0:11:15 > 0:11:17to a Commons Committee.
0:11:17 > 0:11:21Justin Welby appeared before MPs on the Home Affairs Committee
0:11:21 > 0:11:23to talk about immigration, and he launched a fierce attack
0:11:23 > 0:11:25on the leader of Ukip, Nigel Farage.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28He began by explaining why people should feel able to talk
0:11:28 > 0:11:32openly about immigration.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35The reality is that in many communities there is a great deal
0:11:35 > 0:11:36of nervousness about immigration.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38There is genuine fear.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42Will this mean that we can't get our children in schools?
0:11:42 > 0:11:47It is stirred up often by comments more widely.
0:11:47 > 0:11:52And the answer to fear is not to say it is improper to fear.
0:11:52 > 0:11:53Pastorally.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57It is a pastoral comment.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59But it is to recognise fear and to address the
0:11:59 > 0:12:02causes of the fear.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05Do you think there is a line between those who genuinely have
0:12:05 > 0:12:10concerns about this and those who use the immigration issue
0:12:10 > 0:12:16for party political purposes as part of a campaign of fear?
0:12:16 > 0:12:19I'm referring to comments from the leader of Ukip,
0:12:19 > 0:12:26Nigel Farage, who over the weekend has said that by staying in the EU
0:12:26 > 0:12:31this could lead to sexual attacks such as the ones we saw in Cologne.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33Those were his exact words.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36Now, I would regard those comments as being racist,
0:12:36 > 0:12:39and a lot of people would.
0:12:39 > 0:12:43What is your take on what he has said?
0:12:43 > 0:12:46I would agree with you.
0:12:46 > 0:12:51I think that is an inexcusable pandering to people's
0:12:51 > 0:12:56worries and prejudices, that's giving legitimisation
0:12:56 > 0:12:59to racism, which I've seen in parishes in which I have served,
0:12:59 > 0:13:03which has led to attacks on people in those parishes.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06And we cannot legitimise that.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09As I said, fear is a pastoral issue.
0:13:09 > 0:13:14You deal with it by recognising it, by standing alongside and providing
0:13:14 > 0:13:16answers to it.
0:13:16 > 0:13:20What that is, is accentuating fear for political gain
0:13:20 > 0:13:30and that is absolutely inexcusable.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33So you would utterly condemn the comments made by Nigel Farage?
0:13:33 > 0:13:34Without hesitation, without hesitation.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37Do you think it is helpful when the level of debate around
0:13:37 > 0:13:39immigration in this country sinks so low that a political leader
0:13:39 > 0:13:42in our country gets stuck in a traffic jam and then blames
0:13:42 > 0:13:46it on immigrants?
0:13:46 > 0:13:48I mean, words fail me.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50They failed me too when I heard about it.
0:13:51 > 0:13:52I mean, I wasn't aware...
0:13:52 > 0:13:53I don't know who you're talking about.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56I haven't heard that particular comment.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58But it may be that...
0:13:58 > 0:14:00Nigel Farage.
0:14:00 > 0:14:01Oh, really?
0:14:01 > 0:14:04LAUGHTER.
0:14:04 > 0:14:05I am shocked, truly shocked.
0:14:05 > 0:14:07LAUGHTER.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10You look very shocked.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12Order, everyone.
0:14:12 > 0:14:14You're watching our round-up of the day
0:14:14 > 0:14:15in the Commons and the Lords.
0:14:15 > 0:14:16Still to come:
0:14:16 > 0:14:19Is there a way to end all the frustrations that always
0:14:19 > 0:14:25seem to be part of the process to buy a house?
0:14:25 > 0:14:29MPs who are conducting an inquiry into sexual harassment and violence
0:14:29 > 0:14:31in schools have been told that the Government
0:14:31 > 0:14:35is wildly underestimating the scale of the problem.
0:14:35 > 0:14:41In some candid exchanges, anti-sexism campaigners told
0:14:41 > 0:14:44the Women and Equalities Select Committee that official data
0:14:44 > 0:14:47suggesting that sexual bullying was common in only five per cent
0:14:47 > 0:14:53of schools did not reflect their own experience.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55Feminista supports young people and teachers to take action
0:14:55 > 0:14:58against sexism in schools across the country and the message
0:14:58 > 0:15:00that we hear time and time again is that sexual harassment
0:15:00 > 0:15:03is an everyday experience for many girls and young women
0:15:03 > 0:15:07across the country.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09But what our work also allows us to observe is the sense
0:15:09 > 0:15:15of powerlessness that characterises girls' responses to it.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19I think that is a very problematic figure.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21It certainly doesn't reflect the reality that we know of and I'd
0:15:21 > 0:15:24be concerned if the department were basing their response
0:15:24 > 0:15:25on that figure.
0:15:25 > 0:15:27But I think sometimes what it is more saying
0:15:27 > 0:15:30is that it is to do with the lack of reporting, the lack
0:15:30 > 0:15:33of challenging and that staff don't feel confident
0:15:33 > 0:15:35to recognise this abuse, to challenge it, and that young
0:15:35 > 0:15:39people don't feel confident to disclose it when it is happening.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43I think we certainly is an organisation have seen a real
0:15:43 > 0:15:45shift in how teachers in schools are talking about this.
0:15:45 > 0:15:51So, 13 years ago we were knocking on doors trying to talk
0:15:51 > 0:15:53about healthy relationships and violence prevention,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55and teachers, particularly headteachers, didn't get it.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59But there has been a seismic shift in how they understand
0:15:59 > 0:16:02what the problem is now, and so that's very welcome
0:16:02 > 0:16:04that they now understand that.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07But there is a fear, I think, that if they are reporting
0:16:07 > 0:16:10on the kind of sexual violence that is happening, what will that do
0:16:10 > 0:16:13to them and their reputation as a school, in terms
0:16:13 > 0:16:15of parents and Ofsted?
0:16:15 > 0:16:17We have heard from girls who tell us that you don't
0:16:17 > 0:16:21leave school as a girl without being called a slut.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24That to wear shorts under your skirt to prevent boys revealing your
0:16:24 > 0:16:29underwear in the playground is just normal behaviour.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33So there is that sense of a sort of normalised culture of sexual
0:16:33 > 0:16:36harassment in schools where girls don't feel able to report it,
0:16:36 > 0:16:40and instead often change their own behaviour, such as wearing
0:16:40 > 0:16:41shorts under their skirts.
0:16:41 > 0:16:46We asked a group of students in a school in Hackney recently
0:16:46 > 0:16:49what would stop sexual violence in the school and they all said
0:16:49 > 0:16:51if the girls could wear trousers.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55So it's about behaviour changing amongst girls rather than saying,
0:16:55 > 0:16:57"Boys, don't be touching the girls."
0:16:57 > 0:17:01In our experience, young people report that their sex education
0:17:01 > 0:17:05was nonexistent or very poor and often only taught them things
0:17:05 > 0:17:07like how to put a condom on a cucumber and really very
0:17:07 > 0:17:09little more than that.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12Some parents are going to be sexually abusing their children.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15Sometimes that is going to happen in the family unit outside of school
0:17:15 > 0:17:19so we need to start talking to the kids as soon as we can
0:17:19 > 0:17:23when they are very young to give them the space is to start talking
0:17:23 > 0:17:26when they are very young to give them the spaces to start talking
0:17:26 > 0:17:29about what they may be experiencing outside of school.
0:17:29 > 0:17:30And the other campaigners agreed, sexual relationship education
0:17:31 > 0:17:32could not start too early.
0:17:32 > 0:17:34A BBC Panorama investigation last month revealed the conditions
0:17:34 > 0:17:38in which some puppies heading for the UK are bred.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41Undercover footage showed cages filled with hundreds of dogs,
0:17:41 > 0:17:44many of which would end up in British households.
0:17:44 > 0:17:48According to the programme, each breeding dog can produce ?5,000
0:17:48 > 0:17:51worth of puppies in a year.
0:17:51 > 0:17:55The issue was taken up at question time in the Lords.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58I would hope that he, like many others, was appalled
0:17:58 > 0:18:02at the recent Panorama programme, which showed industrial-scale dog
0:18:02 > 0:18:06breeding with dogs producing endless litters, trapped in crates
0:18:06 > 0:18:08with no natural light.
0:18:08 > 0:18:13This market has proven lucrative for some very unsavoury gangs
0:18:13 > 0:18:17who are trading so-called pedigree puppies, some bred
0:18:17 > 0:18:19in the UK and some illegally imported from abroad.
0:18:19 > 0:18:21So does he accept that the Government already has
0:18:21 > 0:18:24the powers to clean up this trade if they wanted to,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27for example by blocking wholesale puppy imports,
0:18:27 > 0:18:31which are abusing the pet travel scheme which was
0:18:31 > 0:18:33designed for family pets?
0:18:33 > 0:18:35The Government takes these matters very seriously,
0:18:35 > 0:18:38and that is why we are reviewing the legislation on dog breeding
0:18:38 > 0:18:40and pet shops in England.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44Local authorities already investigate welfare concerns
0:18:44 > 0:18:48over dog breeding establishments, and can revoke a licence to operate.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Checks on pet dogs are carried out at the UK border,
0:18:51 > 0:18:56with commercial imports certified by official veterinarians.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59The Animal and Plant Health Agency carry out inland
0:18:59 > 0:19:01checks on imported dogs.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05They can make millions of pounds a year and yet face only six months
0:19:05 > 0:19:09in jail if they cause the deaths of hundreds of dogs
0:19:09 > 0:19:11through puppy trading.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14Isn't it time the Government acted like Northern Ireland and increased
0:19:14 > 0:19:21the maximum sentence for animal welfare offences to five years?
0:19:21 > 0:19:24Obviously, I don't want to pre-empt what is going to happen
0:19:24 > 0:19:27with the review of the consultation, but I shall certainly
0:19:27 > 0:19:29take that point back.
0:19:29 > 0:19:33I can't promise that that will be part of the proposals as yet,
0:19:33 > 0:19:39but I think it's a very interesting point, and I will reflect upon it.
0:19:39 > 0:19:41Will the Minister give the figures for those
0:19:41 > 0:19:48dogs which are currently being microchipped, and will
0:19:48 > 0:19:50the Government send out the message that no puppy should be sold
0:19:50 > 0:19:53where the mother of the dog is not present?
0:19:53 > 0:19:54As I say, my lords, it's really important,
0:19:54 > 0:19:58and our advice to prospective owners is to see the puppy with its mother,
0:19:58 > 0:20:01and never buy a puppy younger than eight weeks.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04That is really important, so I think that I would encourage
0:20:04 > 0:20:12responsible pet owners to reflect on that advice.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14Will the noble Lord Minister look forward to the day
0:20:14 > 0:20:16when dogs can choose their owners online?
0:20:16 > 0:20:18LAUGHTER.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21Well, I'm sure that's the case, but I have always reflected that
0:20:21 > 0:20:23dogs very often look like their owners!
0:20:24 > 0:20:26LAUGHTER.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30It's emerged that the Royal Navy's fleet of Type-45 destroyers
0:20:30 > 0:20:32have been breaking down because their engines cannot cope
0:20:32 > 0:20:36with the warm waters of the Persian Gulf.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39The revelation from Rolls Royce, the company which produced
0:20:39 > 0:20:43the Type-45 destroyers' gas turbines, was met with
0:20:43 > 0:20:48surprise at a session of the Commons Defence Committee.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51It almost comes across as if we can't use this ship
0:20:51 > 0:20:54in the Gulf, for example.
0:20:54 > 0:21:00You've got a full complement, battle-ready ship in the Gulf,
0:21:00 > 0:21:02sitting there as a sitting duck, basically.
0:21:02 > 0:21:06From a WR21 point of view, there was a specification for Type-45.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08The engine met that specification.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11That was the same specification applied across the whole
0:21:11 > 0:21:14system, and the system met that specification.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17Are the conditions experienced in the Gulf in line
0:21:17 > 0:21:19with that specification?
0:21:19 > 0:21:21No, they are not.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24So the equipment is having to operate in far more arduous
0:21:24 > 0:21:27conditions than were initially required by that specification.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30What we sought to do was produce a design that would have
0:21:30 > 0:21:32graceful degradation beyond those temperatures.
0:21:32 > 0:21:36What we have found in the Gulf is that it takes the gas turbine
0:21:36 > 0:21:40generator bit into an area which is sub-optimal
0:21:40 > 0:21:44for the generator and also we found with the drive units
0:21:44 > 0:21:48that the cooling system created condensation within the drive units
0:21:48 > 0:21:58which caused faults and that caused electrical failures as well.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45When you have a failure of the gas turbine, it has a cascade effect
0:22:45 > 0:22:46on the ship and causes total electrical failure.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49Had the prime movers been more evenly sized, it would have had
0:22:49 > 0:22:50different consequences.
0:22:50 > 0:22:51I understand that.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53But none of that surely is unpredictable.
0:22:53 > 0:22:54You know?
0:22:54 > 0:22:56The basic physics, the basic calculations should have taken that
0:22:56 > 0:22:58into account, should they not?
0:22:58 > 0:22:59This is not a completely exogenous impact.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01It's your basic engineering design and physics.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04Assumptions were made that the WR21 would be a very reliable
0:23:04 > 0:23:06prime mover and therefore the system design was built
0:23:06 > 0:23:14around that assumption.
0:23:14 > 0:23:15OK.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19How many years to you think that the Royal Navy has had a naval
0:23:19 > 0:23:20presence in the Gulf?
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Would it be measured in decades?
0:23:23 > 0:23:24Scores of years?
0:23:24 > 0:23:25A century?
0:23:25 > 0:23:28Why should it have come as such a surprise there would be these
0:23:28 > 0:23:30sorts of climatic demands and obstacles to be overcome
0:23:30 > 0:23:36by a new design of ship?
0:23:36 > 0:23:38I think the Navy have operated in the Gulf for many,
0:23:38 > 0:23:40many years and were aware of that.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43I think the operating profile was considered at the time
0:23:43 > 0:23:47that there would not be repeated and continuous operations
0:23:47 > 0:23:50in the Gulf, so that they would form a part of the operating profile
0:23:50 > 0:23:52for the ship, and therefore it wasn't designed explicitly
0:23:52 > 0:23:58and uniquely for operations in the Gulf.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01An MP has called for a 'root and branch' change to
0:24:01 > 0:24:03the house-buying process in England and Wales.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06In a Westminster Hall debate, the Conservative Will Quince called
0:24:06 > 0:24:10the current conveyancing system antiquated.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13He suggested one way to overcome some of the frustrations and delays
0:24:13 > 0:24:18might be to put more of the process online.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21One in five property transactions fall through each
0:24:21 > 0:24:23year, around 200,000.
0:24:23 > 0:24:26Around ?270 million is wasted on legal fees and surveys annually
0:24:26 > 0:24:30for failed house purchases.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32Mr Chairman, as I mentioned, by way of background,
0:24:32 > 0:24:36I was a practising solicitor specialising in residential property
0:24:36 > 0:24:39work so I worked in this area of law and I have first-hand experience
0:24:39 > 0:24:42of the frustration of the conveyancing process
0:24:42 > 0:24:44in England and Wales.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46Technology may be part of the solution.
0:24:46 > 0:24:51People search online for a property and it is reasonable to expect
0:24:51 > 0:24:54that they would also like to contract and correspond
0:24:54 > 0:24:59online with their conveyancer if it will speed up the process.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02If I had a pound for every solicitor that still sends out letter
0:25:02 > 0:25:06after letter via post then I would be a very wealthy man.
0:25:06 > 0:25:08Unless the Government is willing to fundamentally
0:25:08 > 0:25:10change our antiquated conveyancing process, root and branch,
0:25:10 > 0:25:13we will not see the improvements which those buying and selling
0:25:13 > 0:25:20residential property are so desperate to see.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22We should not forget, when looking for the causes
0:25:22 > 0:25:24of procedural problems in the system, that the conveyancing
0:25:24 > 0:25:28process has to deal with some pretty difficult areas of law
0:25:28 > 0:25:31and simplification and modernisation of the substantive underlying
0:25:31 > 0:25:34law has a part to play in improving the overall effect
0:25:34 > 0:25:37of the conveyancing process.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39Dominic Raab.
0:25:39 > 0:25:40And that's it for this programme.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42Do join me for our next daily round-up.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Until then, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.