0:00:17 > 0:00:20Hello, and welcome to the main news from Westminster.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23The former Chancellor George Osborne says the UK Parliament could have
0:00:23 > 0:00:26done something to avert the tragedy in Syria.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29I think we are deceiving ourselves in this Parliament,
0:00:29 > 0:00:33if we believe that we have no responsibility for what has
0:00:33 > 0:00:35happened in Syria.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38There are calls to wake up to Russia's interference
0:00:38 > 0:00:41in international affairs.
0:00:41 > 0:00:43Where not only their interference now proven in the American
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Presidential campaign, probably in our own referendum last
0:00:47 > 0:00:50year, we don't have the evidence for that yet, but I think
0:00:50 > 0:00:51it is highly probable.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53Also on the programme, dismay at attitudes among NHS staff
0:00:53 > 0:00:56to the deaths of people with learning disabilities.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59There can be no tolerance for the deaths of people
0:00:59 > 0:01:03with learning disabilities, treating them with any less
0:01:03 > 0:01:06importance than any other patient in the National Health Service.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08And tackling homophobia in sport.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12I was the first one to come out in rugby, and in doing that,
0:01:12 > 0:01:15I felt a huge, huge amount of pressure, and I was just
0:01:15 > 0:01:18a referee, I wasn't a star like the players are.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21The five year war between the Syrian Government and rebel
0:01:21 > 0:01:24forces has reached a critical and alarming point.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27The Syrian Government retakes control of the city of Aleppo,
0:01:27 > 0:01:30civilians are coming under attack.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33The UN says pro-Government forces have been entering homes and killing
0:01:33 > 0:01:37people, including children.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40The UN is urging the warring parties to declare a truce,
0:01:40 > 0:01:43so that children can be moved to safety.
0:01:43 > 0:01:48Meanwhile, MPs have being holding an emergency debate on the crisis.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Several MPs harked back to the Commons vote three years ago
0:01:50 > 0:01:52in which military action against President Assad
0:01:52 > 0:01:55forces was rejected.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57This latest debate was initiated by Andrew Mitchell,
0:01:57 > 0:02:00who painted a grim picture of what is going
0:02:00 > 0:02:02on inside Syria now.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05The reports of the United Nations and its agencies and of
0:02:05 > 0:02:09the international Red Cross are likely to be extremely accurate,
0:02:09 > 0:02:14and they have reported over lunchtime that there is clear
0:02:14 > 0:02:19evidence of civilians being executed and shot on the spot,
0:02:19 > 0:02:22there are dead bodies in the street, which cannot be reached
0:02:22 > 0:02:28because of gunfire, and in the last couple of hours we have heard
0:02:28 > 0:02:32there are probably more than 100 children who are unaccompanied
0:02:32 > 0:02:37or separated from their families, who are trapped in a building
0:02:37 > 0:02:40and under heavy fire in east Aleppo.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43There are large numbers who are stranded in the open
0:02:43 > 0:02:46and looking for shelter.
0:02:46 > 0:02:51The only food available is dates and bulgar wheat, water has run out,
0:02:51 > 0:02:54there is no electricity, and last night people
0:02:54 > 0:02:57were flooding into this enclave.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59There are, as I say, credible reports of executions,
0:02:59 > 0:03:05and the removal of groups of adult males.
0:03:05 > 0:03:07Would the right honourable gentleman give way?
0:03:07 > 0:03:08I will.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10I thank the right honourable gentleman for giving way
0:03:10 > 0:03:13and he paints a grim picture of the current situation in Aleppo.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Years ago I travelled with the honourable member opposite
0:03:16 > 0:03:19from Beckenham to Srebrenica and we visited an exhibition
0:03:19 > 0:03:22in Sarajevo, of pictures from Srebrenica and pictures
0:03:22 > 0:03:25from Syria, and they were indistinguishable.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28When we hear of summary executions, disappearances of men and boys,
0:03:28 > 0:03:30unmarked graves and the types of atrocities he has described,
0:03:30 > 0:03:33does he not believe we risk this being the Srebrenica
0:03:33 > 0:03:35of our generation?
0:03:35 > 0:03:37Andrew Mitchell said one way to avoid that scenario
0:03:37 > 0:03:39was to get aid into Syria as quickly as possible.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43A view reinforced by Labour.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47If Russia and Assad continue to block road convoys into the area,
0:03:47 > 0:03:51then surely the Government must finally accept that we have reached
0:03:51 > 0:03:55the point of last resort, when the previous Foreign Secretary
0:03:55 > 0:03:58promised that air drops would be used.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02Now if we fear that manned flights would be too dangerous,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05as I know the honourable gentleman sitting next to the Foreign
0:04:05 > 0:04:08Secretary does, and he sits and shakes his head,
0:04:08 > 0:04:11then the Government must consider using unmanned drones
0:04:11 > 0:04:14or GPS guided parachutes.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17Thank you, Mr Speaker.
0:04:17 > 0:04:22I am really concerned about the idea that we would send our aircraft
0:04:22 > 0:04:27into airspace that is contested and is hostile.
0:04:27 > 0:04:34They fly low, they drop aid, as I know, very low.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36They could be taken out by ground fire, not just missiles.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40There are other solutions, such as using unmanned drones or GPS
0:04:40 > 0:04:44guided parachutes of which there has been, the GPS guided parachutes can
0:04:44 > 0:04:50carry large amounts, much larger than unmanned drones.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53These are all proposals we know that the Government is actively
0:04:53 > 0:04:56considering at the moment.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00So I hope the Foreign Secretary will tell us today, if air drops
0:05:00 > 0:05:05are not the answer for delivering humanitarian aid, then what is?
0:05:05 > 0:05:07The former Chancellor raised the vote against
0:05:07 > 0:05:09military action in 2013.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12I think we are deceiving ourselves, in this Parliament, if we believe
0:05:12 > 0:05:18that we have no responsibility for what has happened in Syria.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22The tragedy in Aleppo did not come out of a vacuum,
0:05:22 > 0:05:25it was created by a vacuum.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28A vacuum of western leadership, of American leadership,
0:05:28 > 0:05:30British leadership.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33I take responsibility as someone who sat on the National Security Council
0:05:33 > 0:05:36throughout those years, Parliament should take its
0:05:36 > 0:05:41responsibility because of what it prevented being done.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45Words that were praised by a Labour MP.
0:05:45 > 0:05:50So very many times in this House I have vigorously opposed
0:05:50 > 0:05:55everything that he put to us, today I respect a very thoughtful
0:05:55 > 0:06:01contribution and an important contribution he has just made.
0:06:01 > 0:06:05Mr Speaker, I rise today with one purpose and that is to persuade
0:06:05 > 0:06:07the Foreign Secretary that, if he chooses to listen
0:06:07 > 0:06:13to the member for Sutton Coldfield and take the action suggested
0:06:13 > 0:06:19to him, he will do so with wide support across this House.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21There was a warning about Russia's behaviour.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25I don't think we have even begun to wake up to what Russia is doing
0:06:25 > 0:06:29when it comes to cyber warfare, not only their interference proven
0:06:29 > 0:06:33in the American Presidential campaign, probably in our own
0:06:33 > 0:06:35referendum last year, we don't have the evidence for that yet,
0:06:35 > 0:06:37but I think it is highly probable.
0:06:37 > 0:06:39Certainly in the French Presidential election they will be involved
0:06:39 > 0:06:42and there already serious concerns in the German Secret Service that
0:06:42 > 0:06:46Russia is interfering in the elections coming up.
0:06:46 > 0:06:48We have to wake up to this.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51I am sure there are many in this House and throughout the country
0:06:51 > 0:06:54watching their television screens, whose main motive, main instinct,
0:06:54 > 0:06:58main feeling is one of frustration at the apparent impotence
0:06:58 > 0:07:01of our Government to be able to get involved and do anything.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05I do think that there are some people, perhaps not those sitting
0:07:05 > 0:07:08in the front bench opposite, but some in the Foreign Office
0:07:08 > 0:07:12who need to go on an assertive training course, they need to speak
0:07:12 > 0:07:17a lot louder and more emphatically than they have been doing thus far.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21The Foreign Secretary condemned Russia for blocking aid
0:07:21 > 0:07:24and the evacuation of civilians, and there were hard words
0:07:24 > 0:07:25for President Assad.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29Assad has doggedly refuse to allow the UN to deliver supplies
0:07:29 > 0:07:33to hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom are starving.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38He is content for his own people to be reduced to starvation,
0:07:38 > 0:07:46even though there are UN warehouses full of food, within easy reach.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49He said it was up to Russia and Syria to declare a truce,
0:07:49 > 0:07:53but he also criticised the Commons decision in 2013.
0:07:53 > 0:07:59On August 29th 2013, this House voted by 13 votes not
0:07:59 > 0:08:03to use force against Assad, even after he had poisoned hundreds
0:08:03 > 0:08:09of his people with sarin nerve gas, and we as a House of Commons,
0:08:09 > 0:08:15we as a country, we vacated that space into which Russia stepped,
0:08:15 > 0:08:19beginning its own bombing campaign on behalf of Assad in 2015.
0:08:19 > 0:08:24Ever since that vote, our ability to influence events
0:08:24 > 0:08:28in Syria or to protect civilians or compel the delivery of aid has
0:08:28 > 0:08:31been severely limited.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34He predicted victory would elude President Assad and he questioned
0:08:34 > 0:08:37whether Russia would continue to support his futile
0:08:37 > 0:08:41struggle to subdue Syria.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46Now a teenage boy with a learning disability died in 2013, aged 18,
0:08:46 > 0:08:51while he was at a treatment centre run by Southern Health NHS Trust.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54The Trust said Connor Sparrowhawk died of natural causes
0:08:54 > 0:08:56after drowning in a bath, but an independent investigation
0:08:56 > 0:09:00concluded that his death was entirely preventable,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03and that there had been failures in his care.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06This and other tragic cases led to an inquiry
0:09:06 > 0:09:10by the Care Quality Commission into how the NHS
0:09:10 > 0:09:12investigates patient deaths.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15I found the processes were inadequate and caused bereaved
0:09:15 > 0:09:18families further distress.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21The Health Secretary said the findings made sobering reading.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25Among other things, the report said families and carers often
0:09:25 > 0:09:30have a poor experience of mortality investigations, are sometimes not
0:09:30 > 0:09:34treated well kindness, respect and sensitivity,
0:09:34 > 0:09:38can feel their involvement is tokenistic, and often question
0:09:38 > 0:09:41the independence of the reports.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45The NHS does not prioritise learning from deaths,
0:09:45 > 0:09:51and misses countless opportunities to learn and improve as a result.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53From next March, though, all NHS Trust boards will have
0:09:53 > 0:09:59to collect and analyse data on preventable deaths.
0:09:59 > 0:10:02We'll be requiring Trusts to publish that information quarterly,
0:10:02 > 0:10:04in accordance with regulations I will lay before the House,
0:10:04 > 0:10:07so that patients and the public can see whether and where progress
0:10:07 > 0:10:09is being made.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11The CQC report raised concerns about the treatment of people
0:10:11 > 0:10:15with learning disabilities and mental health problems.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17In acute trusts we will ask for particular priority to be given
0:10:17 > 0:10:20to identifying patients with a mental health problem
0:10:20 > 0:10:24or a learning disability, to make sure that their care
0:10:24 > 0:10:27responds to their particular needs.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29And that particular trouble is taken over any mortality investigations
0:10:29 > 0:10:32to ensure wrong assumptions are not made about the
0:10:32 > 0:10:36inevitability of death.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39Connor Sparrowhawk's stepfather Richard told Radio 5 Live,
0:10:39 > 0:10:44"When a loved one dies in care, knowing how and why they died,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47is the very least a family should be able to expect."
0:10:47 > 0:10:48We agree.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52The findings of the CQC are a wake up call.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55Relatives shut out of investigations, reasonable
0:10:55 > 0:10:57questions gone unanswered, grieving families made to feel
0:10:57 > 0:11:01like "a pain in the neck" or feeling they would be better dealt
0:11:01 > 0:11:03with at a "supermarket checkout".
0:11:03 > 0:11:06Mr Speaker, this is totally unacceptable.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09It is shameful and it has to change.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12The most chilling phrase I think in the foreword in this report
0:11:12 > 0:11:15was where Mike Richards and his team said they found the level
0:11:15 > 0:11:19of acceptance and sense of inevitability when people
0:11:19 > 0:11:23with a learning disability or mental illness die early is too common.
0:11:23 > 0:11:27So will the Secretary of State just put on the record what Mike Richards
0:11:27 > 0:11:30says in this report, that there can be no tolerance
0:11:30 > 0:11:33for the deaths of people with learning disabilities,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36treating them with any less importance than any other patient
0:11:36 > 0:11:39in the National Health Service.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43Well, I am happy to put that on the record, and say
0:11:43 > 0:11:48that that those words have the Government's
0:11:48 > 0:11:52wholehearted support.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54One MP is in the throws of a difficult personal experience.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57I seek the indulgence of the House to raise a personal issue.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59This Thursday, I should have be attending the inquest
0:11:59 > 0:12:04into my father's death, which I anticipate will conclude
0:12:04 > 0:12:08was avoidable, just been notified an hour ago that the one of the key
0:12:08 > 0:12:10witnesses won't be attending because the hospital had incorrect
0:12:10 > 0:12:11contact details for him.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14He was a locum and was unaware the inquest was taking place,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17so for the second time it is being cancelled.
0:12:17 > 0:12:22Could the Secretary of State tell us whether the report has looked
0:12:22 > 0:12:25into the aspect of locum doctors and of the pressure of the failure
0:12:25 > 0:12:29to learn lessons, because so many people in the Health Service,
0:12:29 > 0:12:32and A in particular, are only coming to hospital
0:12:32 > 0:12:36on a one-off occasion, and actually that is a part
0:12:36 > 0:12:38of the cause of the sort of defensiveness there
0:12:38 > 0:12:47is within the system.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50First of all, I am sure the whole House will join me in wanting
0:12:50 > 0:12:53to offer our condolences to him, about what happened to his father,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56and of course the incredible grief he and others feel when they lose
0:12:56 > 0:12:58a family member is just compounded if you subsequently discover
0:12:58 > 0:13:07that the death was avoidable.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11Can I also pay tribute to Sara Ryan, the mother of Connor Sparrowhawk,
0:13:11 > 0:13:12who has fought tirelessly for justice for those
0:13:13 > 0:13:13with learning disability.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17Just to warn the Secretary of State, I think she'll take some convincing
0:13:17 > 0:13:19that things really will change, given all of the resistance that
0:13:19 > 0:13:22she's come up against.
0:13:22 > 0:13:24I hope he's managed to meet with her.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27If he hasn't, would he be willing to meet with her, together with me,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30to discuss the plans going forward?
0:13:30 > 0:13:33The Health Secretary said he had met Sara Ryan.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35Without her campaigning, he said, they would not be making such huge
0:13:35 > 0:13:37changes on a national level now.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39You are watching Tuesday in Parliament with me,
0:13:39 > 0:13:49Christina Cooper.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51Now onto broader matters around health care.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53A Lords committee is investigating what the NHS might look
0:13:53 > 0:13:54like in the year 2030.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57How will it cope with the pressures placed on it?
0:13:57 > 0:14:00And what might be the best way to fund social care in the long term?
0:14:00 > 0:14:03At its latest session, the committee heard from a series
0:14:03 > 0:14:05of politicians, but first, it questioned the man
0:14:05 > 0:14:07in charge of NHS England, the body that sets the priorities
0:14:07 > 0:14:16and direction of the health service.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19Do you have any ideas for a sort of alternative funding
0:14:19 > 0:14:20model for social care?
0:14:20 > 0:14:21You mentioned earlier all the different ways
0:14:21 > 0:14:23in which social care is funded.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25Is there something that would be more effective,
0:14:25 > 0:14:27which would enable the longer term sustainability of the
0:14:27 > 0:14:34NHS and social care?
0:14:34 > 0:14:37I think there are things that we ought to do to integrate
0:14:37 > 0:14:40health and social care locally, but I believe that those solutions
0:14:40 > 0:14:42are best designed between consenting adults locally rather
0:14:42 > 0:14:43than mandated nationally.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45We need to think more broadly about funding,
0:14:45 > 0:14:47public funding streams for older people, for retirees in this
0:14:47 > 0:14:50country, and we need to go beyond just thinking about health
0:14:50 > 0:14:52and social care funding and also think about what's happening
0:14:52 > 0:15:02in the benefits system, the pensions system and so forth.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13And so I am personally attracted to the idea that we obviously
0:15:13 > 0:15:16have a triple lock until 2020, which is three different ways
0:15:16 > 0:15:17in which pensions go up.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20I think a new way of thinking about that would be a triple
0:15:20 > 0:15:23guarantee for old people in this country, that would be
0:15:23 > 0:15:33a guarantee around income, around housing and around care.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38I don't think you can think about any one of those
0:15:38 > 0:15:41in isolation from the other two.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44The MP who is a doctor and who chairs the Commons health
0:15:44 > 0:15:46committee was asked if MPs could reach agreement
0:15:46 > 0:15:52over long-term funding.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55I can't tell you how depressing I find it sitting in the Commons
0:15:55 > 0:15:58chamber and hearing the kind of yahoo politics over this issue,
0:15:58 > 0:16:01and I personally feel that we need to do the same with health
0:16:01 > 0:16:03and social care as was eventually done over pensions, an acceptance
0:16:03 > 0:16:07that the scale of this is so great, and it will be a challenge
0:16:07 > 0:16:09for whoever is in power, so it's in the interests
0:16:09 > 0:16:12of all political parties to get together and have a mature
0:16:12 > 0:16:14discussion about how we fund this so it doesn't become such
0:16:14 > 0:16:22a political football.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24I personally feel this is the right time in the electoral
0:16:24 > 0:16:27cycle for that to happen, because the closer you get
0:16:27 > 0:16:29to an election the more difficult that becomes.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Onto the views of the opposition parties.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35I struggle to justify to myself the fact that a very wealthy
0:16:35 > 0:16:38person who has cancer has all of their medical needs paid
0:16:38 > 0:16:42for but a person on very modest means in a semi in Salford who gets
0:16:42 > 0:16:44dementia ends up losing everything.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47This is the basis of our 1948 settlement, and yet it doesn't seem
0:16:47 > 0:16:57to me to be very fair.
0:16:57 > 0:16:58The Government is making a series of decisions
0:16:58 > 0:17:01about whether it is inheritance tax cuts or corporation tax cuts
0:17:01 > 0:17:11or capital gains tax cuts.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15The Government has found hundreds of millions in capital investment
0:17:15 > 0:17:18for new grammar schools, so I believe the Government can make
0:17:18 > 0:17:21a different set of choices at the moment to fund the shortfall
0:17:21 > 0:17:22in social care.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25I think that we do have to look at changing the shape of the NHS,
0:17:25 > 0:17:27looking at sustainability, so some of the things that
0:17:27 > 0:17:30are putting a lot of pressure on it and squandering money
0:17:30 > 0:17:31is the marketisation in the NHS.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34I think that's incredibly wasteful, and it's quite clear the Department
0:17:34 > 0:17:37of Health do not actually know how much money is spent on that
0:17:37 > 0:17:41whole convoluted process, the bidding and tendering.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43And finally, the verdict of the Health Secretary.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45I'm a supporter of our current system.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Lots of people say, well, you know, what about
0:17:47 > 0:17:49an insurance-based system?
0:17:49 > 0:17:53But I think the interesting thing is, if you look
0:17:53 > 0:17:56at the insurance-based systems that exist, they tend to be much less
0:17:56 > 0:17:57good at cost control.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59The NHS is actually very widely admired for its
0:17:59 > 0:18:05ability to control costs.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08An MRI scan costs three times more in America than it does in England,
0:18:08 > 0:18:13despite having the same machine and the same operators, because,
0:18:13 > 0:18:14when insurance companies are paying for costs,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17then no one has a motive to keep the cost down.
0:18:17 > 0:18:24With a single payer system, you can.
0:18:24 > 0:18:26I think it's very misleading and unnecessarily worrying
0:18:26 > 0:18:28to the public to talk about, is the NHS sustainable?
0:18:28 > 0:18:32They worry about those core principles.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35I think the bigger question is, how are all health systems
0:18:35 > 0:18:38across the whole world going to be sustainable in the face of the huge
0:18:38 > 0:18:40pressures of an ageing population and of advances in medicine
0:18:40 > 0:18:42and technology that are making us all live longer
0:18:43 > 0:18:51and are fantastic for all of us?
0:18:51 > 0:18:54I think there is a bigger question, which isn't really about the NHS,
0:18:54 > 0:18:56because I don't think we will ever change those principles,
0:18:56 > 0:18:59but about how we are going to get more resources
0:18:59 > 0:19:00into health care systems.
0:19:00 > 0:19:07The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, in action for the second time.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09To the House of Lords now, where peers discussed very
0:19:09 > 0:19:11disturbing claims that child migrants brought to the UK
0:19:11 > 0:19:14from the Calais refugee camps have disappeared.
0:19:14 > 0:19:23The Home Office Minister, Lady Williams, promised to investigate.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26Could she comment on media reports that some of the children that have
0:19:26 > 0:19:28already come to this country have actually disappeared?
0:19:28 > 0:19:30Could she comment on whether that is accurate and,
0:19:30 > 0:19:33if it is at all accurate, which is very disturbing,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36could she say what more can be done to prevent this happening
0:19:36 > 0:19:40to any other children?
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Well, I'm pleased that the noble Lord has raised that question,
0:19:42 > 0:19:45as one who is so concerned with safeguarding, and the concerns
0:19:45 > 0:19:50haven't actually been raised with us, although I have seen them
0:19:50 > 0:19:53in the paper, and we haven't received any specific
0:19:53 > 0:19:57details of any cases.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59But of course we will investigate any concerns fully
0:19:59 > 0:20:03and we are working closely with the LGA and would of course
0:20:03 > 0:20:04engage with any agencies, the relevant agencies,
0:20:04 > 0:20:06should those stories be verified.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08We would do that in the same way we would do with
0:20:08 > 0:20:17a child that was our own.
0:20:17 > 0:20:24Would the noble Baroness, the Minister, care to answer,
0:20:24 > 0:20:27as she failed to answer on another occasion, how long does the funding
0:20:27 > 0:20:30last if a local authority takes in a child or children?
0:20:30 > 0:20:34Is it a one-year payment or will it cover the full cost of that child
0:20:34 > 0:20:43in terms of education, housing and health?
0:20:44 > 0:20:46My Lords, if a child is in local authority care,
0:20:46 > 0:20:49the child will be looked after as if it was,
0:20:49 > 0:20:54as if they were one of our own.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58As I say, the cost of that local authority care will be met.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00In terms of the other funding that I think the noble
0:21:00 > 0:21:04lady is referring to, it's certainly being
0:21:04 > 0:21:07committed to for the moment.
0:21:07 > 0:21:12I can't speak for further budgetary rounds, but certainly it's been
0:21:13 > 0:21:14committed to for the moment.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17Can my noble friend say whether all these children have family here,
0:21:17 > 0:21:20or are they looking to be adopted?
0:21:20 > 0:21:23Well, for the children who meet the criteria under
0:21:23 > 0:21:24the Dublin regulations, those children will
0:21:24 > 0:21:25have family here.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27For the children who've come here through section 67
0:21:27 > 0:21:29of the Immigration Act, they won't necessarily have family.
0:21:29 > 0:21:39They will be unaccompanied.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42Now, how widespread is homophobia in sport
0:21:42 > 0:21:43and what can be done about it?
0:21:43 > 0:21:45The culture committee is investigating the issue,
0:21:45 > 0:21:47and it's taken evidence from Nigel Owens, a top
0:21:47 > 0:21:50referee who was in charge of the Rugby World Cup final last
0:21:50 > 0:21:52year between New Zealand and Australia.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54That was eight years after he had come out as gay.
0:21:54 > 0:22:00He says his experience had been hugely positive.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03I can count on one hand negative attitudes that there were.
0:22:03 > 0:22:04Very, very few.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08On the whole, if somebody was to ask me, is rugby a homophobic sport,
0:22:08 > 0:22:11then the answer would be no, because I couldn't be who I am today
0:22:11 > 0:22:14and referee at the level that I am today in rugby
0:22:14 > 0:22:15if that was that case.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18Now, I am aware as well that there are a minority
0:22:18 > 0:22:20of people within rugby, as there is within every sport,
0:22:20 > 0:22:30and as there is within society as well, that would not
0:22:31 > 0:22:35like a person, whether it is for the colour of his skin,
0:22:35 > 0:22:41his religious beliefs or his sexual orientation, and that is something
0:22:41 > 0:22:45that is not only in sport but is in society as well as in everyday life.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47He said there had been some homophobic abuse
0:22:47 > 0:22:49during an international match he refereed at Twickenham
0:22:49 > 0:22:50two years ago.
0:22:50 > 0:22:54I don't think rugby can take the moral high ground when it comes
0:22:54 > 0:22:56to everything in sport, respect, the way it deals
0:22:56 > 0:23:00with issues in sport, but what I think rugby does do a lot
0:23:00 > 0:23:03better than a lot of other sports, it does address those issues.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05As that instance in Twickenham was brought to the attention
0:23:05 > 0:23:07of the RFU, it was dealt with.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09The people were banned from the stadium two years ago,
0:23:09 > 0:23:13they were fined and the money was given to a charity of my choice.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15Speaking to people outside the sort of professional end of the game,
0:23:15 > 0:23:19at the community end of the game, young people have come to me
0:23:19 > 0:23:21who are dealing with their sexuality and dealing with how
0:23:21 > 0:23:24are they going to deal with it if people find out in rugby.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27A lot of it is very positive and a lot of them still feel
0:23:27 > 0:23:30that they cannot be themselves in rugby within that environment.
0:23:30 > 0:23:35So there's a lot of work to be done still as well, I think.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37Nigel Owens was asked about the differences
0:23:37 > 0:23:40between rugby and football.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42When the first gay footballer does take that plunge,
0:23:42 > 0:23:45and I think what is hindering at the moment is everybody's waiting
0:23:45 > 0:23:47to find out who it is.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50I was the first one to come out in rugby and, in doing that,
0:23:50 > 0:23:53I felt a huge amount of pressure, and I was just a referee.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57I wasn't a star, like the players are, but I felt a huge amount
0:23:57 > 0:23:58of pressure in taking the plunge.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01You're going to be the first one in a professional sport.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03So I can't imagine the pressure that is on an individual
0:24:03 > 0:24:05in the game of football.
0:24:05 > 0:24:11He spoke about his own suicidal feelings before coming out.
0:24:11 > 0:24:14I had to accept my sexuality, first of all, and it took me
0:24:14 > 0:24:17an overdose and a few days in intensive care and only
0:24:17 > 0:24:19just coming back to life till I accepted that.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21There were people there to help me through this
0:24:21 > 0:24:27and tell me, things will be OK.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29I look back now and say, yeah, they were right,
0:24:29 > 0:24:32things will be OK in the end.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35At the time, a lot of it was to do with me dealing with myself,
0:24:35 > 0:24:37and you're quite right in what you say there.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40You know, we have to do all we can to make the environment
0:24:40 > 0:24:43safer for these people, no matter what age they are.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46It's up to people in the crowd, he said, to make it clear to people
0:24:46 > 0:24:55shouting homophobic abuse that it was unacceptable.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58I don't think people realise that, when they do shout this abuse,
0:24:58 > 0:25:01abuse that is not acceptable, when they do shout this abuse,
0:25:01 > 0:25:04you have no idea what it can make somebody sitting maybe two seats
0:25:04 > 0:25:06away from you who are dealing with themselves, it can
0:25:06 > 0:25:09have a huge influence on that, and it can.
0:25:09 > 0:25:13If I was sitting in a stadium at 25 years of age in the state that
0:25:13 > 0:25:16I was then, and I heard somebody shout things like that,
0:25:16 > 0:25:18it could have been enough to tip me over the edge
0:25:18 > 0:25:22and try to take my own life, which I did a few years later.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24So, yes, it's hugely important that we try to eradicate that
0:25:24 > 0:25:33from sport and from society as well.
0:25:33 > 0:25:36The rugby referee Nigel Owens, talking about homophobia in sport.
0:25:36 > 0:25:39That's it for now, but do join me at the same time tomorrow
0:25:39 > 0:25:42for another round-up of the best of the day at Westminster.
0:25:42 > 0:25:49Until then, from me, Christina Cooper, goodbye.