0:00:19 > 0:00:23Hello and welcome to the programme: Coming up in the next half hour.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25The Foreign Secretary tells MPs a return to customs posts
0:00:25 > 0:00:34on the Irish border after Brexit would be "unthinkable".
0:00:34 > 0:00:39There can be no hard border, that would be unthinkable, it would be
0:00:39 > 0:00:41economic and political madness.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44MPs continue their detailed scrutiny of the EU Withdrawal Bill and demand
0:00:44 > 0:00:49reassurances on citizens rights.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52There aren't British rights, there are a universal human rights and
0:00:52 > 0:00:58that is the message that this government and our comradeship sent
0:00:58 > 0:01:01to the rest of the world.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04And: the government promises it will bring in new rules
0:01:04 > 0:01:06on the use of drones to try to protect aeroplanes.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09But first: The leader of the DUP, Arlene Foster, has suggest that
0:01:09 > 0:01:13Ireland and the rest of the EU were being "careless" and "reckless"
0:01:13 > 0:01:18in the way they were using concerns about the Northern Irish border
0:01:18 > 0:01:19as part of the Brexit talks.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21In a BBC interview, Mrs Foster also
0:01:21 > 0:01:24suggested that there was no way the EU and the UK could " put down
0:01:24 > 0:01:27red lines" on the border before moving to the second phase
0:01:27 > 0:01:31of Brexit negotiations.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33It follows Ireland's suggesting that the UK must give a firm
0:01:33 > 0:01:36commitment that there would be no hard border between Northern Ireland
0:01:36 > 0:01:41and Ireland after Brexit.
0:01:41 > 0:01:50The subject came up at foreign office questions in the Commons.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53It is now nearly 50 long years since the start of the troubles in
0:01:53 > 0:01:56Northern Ireland and none of us who lived in that era want to go back to
0:01:56 > 0:02:01it. In February 2016 the Foreign Secretary gave his guarantee that a
0:02:01 > 0:02:06vote for Brexit would leave arrangements on the Irish border and
0:02:06 > 0:02:11I quote, absolutely unchanged. No caveats, no I hope this will happen,
0:02:11 > 0:02:14just a commitment that nothing would change. Can the Foreign Secretary
0:02:14 > 0:02:23give us the same promises today?My right honourable friend is right to
0:02:23 > 0:02:28ask that question, because I was recently in Dublin talking to all
0:02:28 > 0:02:34the political groups there and there is no question that the issue of the
0:02:34 > 0:02:41border is very live in Irish politics. I repeated exactly the
0:02:41 > 0:02:46pledge to which she refers, there can be no return to a hard border,
0:02:46 > 0:02:53there can be no hard border, it would be unthinkable, it would be
0:02:53 > 0:02:57economic and political madness. And we certainly, I think everyone on
0:02:57 > 0:03:04both sides of this House understands the social, political and spiritual
0:03:04 > 0:03:09ramifications of allowing any such thing to happen. That is why it is
0:03:09 > 0:03:13so important that we get onto the second phase of the negotiations,
0:03:13 > 0:03:18that we get sufficient progress at the European Council in December and
0:03:18 > 0:03:24we are able to debate these issues properly.I thank the Foreign
0:03:24 > 0:03:28Secretary for that answer. No one will have missed the fact that like
0:03:28 > 0:03:33so many of his initial promises over Brexit, he has turned a guaranteed
0:03:33 > 0:03:39to an aspiration dependent on a successful deal. I was listening to
0:03:39 > 0:03:43the right honourable gentleman and it seemed to me, like his partner
0:03:43 > 0:03:47from the sun, he seems to be saying it is up to the Irish to find a
0:03:47 > 0:03:51solution but why should that be? It was his promise that border
0:03:51 > 0:03:54arrangements would not change and it is up to him to make sure that works
0:03:54 > 0:04:08and that is why I want to challenge him today, because in September he
0:04:08 > 0:04:10laid down red line for the Brexit negotiations and none of them
0:04:10 > 0:04:13related to the Irish land border, which is a crucial issue. Let me
0:04:13 > 0:04:19urge him today to announce a fifth red line and to promise what he
0:04:19 > 0:04:22promised last year that Irish border arrangements will not change
0:04:22 > 0:04:29anything do, he will refuse to stay in the government.If I may say so,
0:04:29 > 0:04:32I think she prepared her supplementary question before she
0:04:32 > 0:04:41heard my first answer. There can be no return to a hard border, we do
0:04:41 > 0:04:47not want our hard border north south or east or west.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50A Conservative turned to the news that Britain is to lose its seat
0:04:50 > 0:04:53on the International Criminal Court in the Hague for the first time
0:04:53 > 0:04:55since the court was set up in 1946.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57Britain was hoping its current representative would be
0:04:57 > 0:04:59elected for a second term, but withdrew his nomination when
0:04:59 > 0:05:01the United Nations General Assembly backed a rival candidate
0:05:01 > 0:05:07from India.
0:05:07 > 0:05:12There is no hiding that the loss of a British judge on the ICJ is a
0:05:12 > 0:05:16major failure for British diplomacy. What can be done to ensure this
0:05:16 > 0:05:23doesn't happen again?I don't think I can quite agree with their
0:05:23 > 0:05:29construction my friend places on events but I will repeat my
0:05:29 > 0:05:34congratulations to the Indian judge and as the House will know, it has
0:05:34 > 0:05:40been an objective of UK foreign policy to support India in the UN.
0:05:40 > 0:05:41Boris Johnson.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43Once Britain departs the European Union, will British
0:05:43 > 0:05:45citizens still have all the same rights they enjoy now?
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Human rights dominated the latest day of detailed debate
0:05:47 > 0:05:54on the all-important EU Withdrawal Bill.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58Although this brings European law over into UK law, the Bill
0:05:58 > 0:06:00as it stands at the moment doesn't bring over the EU Charter
0:06:01 > 0:06:02of Fundamental Rights.
0:06:02 > 0:06:03The Charter guarantees rights under the headings
0:06:03 > 0:06:06of dignity, equality, justice, solidarity and freedom.
0:06:06 > 0:06:09In the Commons, there were arguments both for keeping the Charter
0:06:09 > 0:06:16and for dropping it.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20By compiling these rights in the single document, the Chancellor
0:06:20 > 0:06:25effectively created new rights attorney new protections. In short,
0:06:25 > 0:06:31the Charter is the most effective key to unlocking vital rights and
0:06:31 > 0:06:35the failure to transpose it and make it operable in UK law is to lock
0:06:35 > 0:06:40those rights away and deny UK citizens the key to accessing them.
0:06:40 > 0:06:45My point is that our rights will be guaranteed once we have left by the
0:06:45 > 0:06:49Supreme Court and the common law or the art location for a statue of law
0:06:49 > 0:06:55and I cannot think that the light that would be destroyed because we
0:06:55 > 0:06:58have not co-opted the Charter, I think they will be guaranteed by
0:06:58 > 0:07:04these ancient and tested methods.We will continue to be a beacon of
0:07:04 > 0:07:10freedom for the world. As we have demonstrated since Magna Carta up to
0:07:10 > 0:07:14and including the more recent commitments to respecting and
0:07:14 > 0:07:18remaining the party for the European Convention on Human Rights.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21One MP put forward an amendment calling for Ministers to produce
0:07:21 > 0:07:23a report on the effects of not having the Charter.
0:07:23 > 0:07:29We need to have a more detailed analysis from ministers about the
0:07:29 > 0:07:34consequences of deleting this Charter of Fundamental Rights.They
0:07:34 > 0:07:39are potentially far ranging. As a lawyer and someone who enjoyed
0:07:39 > 0:07:44jurisprudence, our laws and rights come from different sources. I do
0:07:44 > 0:07:48not like stuff being written down too much, I like to develop over
0:07:48 > 0:07:53time. But can I say, I would need persuading about this amendment
0:07:53 > 0:08:00because it is have a report and it seems awfully wet!
0:08:00 > 0:08:10LAUGHTER. I was trying my best to say let us meet halfway. Let us find
0:08:10 > 0:08:16a way of forging a consensus.Is he concerned with me, when there are
0:08:16 > 0:08:22still children in the world who are engaged in slave Labour? There are
0:08:22 > 0:08:26still being trafficked, they are still working as child soldiers.
0:08:26 > 0:08:33That the message that this sense, that the UK with simply do away with
0:08:33 > 0:08:38rights, that we campaigned for, that gave us the universal declaration is
0:08:38 > 0:08:41an borrowers and really does need the minister to come to this
0:08:41 > 0:08:45dispatch box and say he has changed his mind?This argument of saying
0:08:45 > 0:08:50that we do not we have rights given to us by the European Union, we
0:08:50 > 0:08:55cannot manage to do it ourselves is utter nonsense. We are signed up to
0:08:55 > 0:09:00the European Convention, we have an equality act, we have signed a lot
0:09:00 > 0:09:04of UN treaties covered the offensive notion that if we do not adopt this,
0:09:04 > 0:09:14we
0:09:37 > 0:09:39somehow human rights is actually offensive nonsense. This is not just
0:09:39 > 0:09:41about the application of the European Charter in British law, it
0:09:41 > 0:09:44is a matter of the message we send to the rest of the world and this
0:09:44 > 0:09:47goes to the heart of the problem with the so-called British Bill of
0:09:47 > 0:09:49Rights, there are not British rights, there are universal human
0:09:49 > 0:09:52rights. This is the message we need to send to the rest of the world
0:09:52 > 0:09:54where people do not have those rights. I was responsible in part
0:09:54 > 0:09:57for the protection of children Bill and the gender equality Bill, these
0:09:57 > 0:10:00are intrinsic acts, we do not need the Charter to do that, we do it
0:10:00 > 0:10:03ourselves.Does he not find it odd that we are transposing all of EU
0:10:03 > 0:10:05law into our own laws, but the thing that really underpins all the EU
0:10:05 > 0:10:08laws, we are taking away, it is taking away the fundamentals, the
0:10:08 > 0:10:11foundation of what is the body of the EU law.My real worries about
0:10:11 > 0:10:13the Charter are that it is simply too complicated. It does not add
0:10:13 > 0:10:16sufficient rights and everyone here is in favour of the rights we have
0:10:16 > 0:10:22in the convention. We are very keen on those may want to protect them,
0:10:22 > 0:10:28but we do not feel that the Charter as sufficiently.She suggested that
0:10:28 > 0:10:33the Charter of fundamental rights contains rights to complicated to be
0:10:33 > 0:10:38incorporated into English law. Can you reassure her that those rights
0:10:38 > 0:10:42have been incorporated into Scots law and also all the legal systems
0:10:42 > 0:10:46of all the member states of the European Union and it is not too
0:10:46 > 0:10:51complicated to do it into English law?At the end of that debate,
0:10:51 > 0:10:58there followed a series of votes including one on those charters. The
0:10:58 > 0:11:01government won the day meaning that so far it has not been defeated on
0:11:01 > 0:11:07any of the votes of the bill. MPs have another five days of committee
0:11:07 > 0:11:13stage debate on the EU withdrawal bill still to go.
0:11:13 > 0:11:14You're watching Tuesday In Parliament,
0:11:14 > 0:11:15with me, Alicia McCarthy.
0:11:15 > 0:11:21Don't forget you can find all our programmes on the BBC iPlayer.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23The Immigration Minister has told MPs that foreign nationals whose
0:11:23 > 0:11:26applications for settled status in the UK are rejected
0:11:26 > 0:11:28following Brexit could be deported before their appeals are heard.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30Brandon Lewis told the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee
0:11:30 > 0:11:34he expected deportations to take place only in clear-cut cases.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47In those circumstances, if you have somebody who the Home Office
0:11:47 > 0:11:50assesses is trying to, as you say, game the system or trying to...
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Is not eligible, will they be able to remain
0:11:52 > 0:11:55in the UK while they appeal?
0:11:55 > 0:11:59Well, again, that depends on the situation, because obviously
0:11:59 > 0:12:02there are going to be a number of different groups of people,
0:12:02 > 0:12:06so if somebody is an EU citizen and is in the UK
0:12:06 > 0:12:08but hasn't fulfilled their five years yet,
0:12:08 > 0:12:10then obviously, they have the right to stay
0:12:10 > 0:12:13because they are allowed to apply to get to five years.
0:12:13 > 0:12:16Someone who is not an EU citizen who is claiming to be an EU citizen
0:12:16 > 0:12:18would therefore be committing fraud and we would look
0:12:18 > 0:12:20to deal with them in normal immigration routes.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23Which means that they would be liable to removal.
0:12:23 > 0:12:28OK, so in those circumstances, even though somebody has an appeal, so
0:12:28 > 0:12:32even though the Home Office may have made an incorrect decision which you
0:12:32 > 0:12:34would accept under the current...
0:12:34 > 0:12:36Given the current number of appeals that get overturned,
0:12:36 > 0:12:44you would still deport somebody in advance of their appeal?
0:12:44 > 0:12:47We can support people in advance of appeal because you can
0:12:47 > 0:12:51appeal from overseas, but again, it depends on the circumstances
0:12:51 > 0:12:52of the individual case.
0:12:52 > 0:12:54So it's difficult to answer that because it depends
0:12:54 > 0:12:56on the individual case and the circumstances.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58OK, so you're not ruling out...
0:12:58 > 0:12:59So again in your technical notes
0:12:59 > 0:13:02you seem to suggest that actually EU citizens
0:13:02 > 0:13:05would be able to remain here while the appeal?
0:13:05 > 0:13:08I did specifically say this is somebody who is not
0:13:08 > 0:13:13an EU citizen, who is claiming to be an EU citizen.
0:13:13 > 0:13:19But if that is the issue on which they are appealing,
0:13:19 > 0:13:23so their appeal is that the Home Office has got it wrong claiming
0:13:23 > 0:13:27that they are a citizen from outside the EU when in fact they are an EU
0:13:27 > 0:13:32citizen, under those circumstances you still plan to deport them?
0:13:32 > 0:13:35Well, no, as I said, we plan to look at each case
0:13:35 > 0:13:38on an individual basis, so if you look at a case on an
0:13:38 > 0:13:42individual basis and an individual case is claiming to be an EU citizen
0:13:42 > 0:13:44and they have reason to claim that they are
0:13:44 > 0:13:46and they believe that the system has got it wrong,
0:13:46 > 0:13:47then in that particular case,
0:13:47 > 0:13:49it's likely we would allow them to stay.
0:13:49 > 0:13:50The UK's amphibious forces,
0:13:50 > 0:13:52capable of landing troops from the sea,
0:13:52 > 0:13:54are an elite fighting force vital for an island nation.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57That was the message from MPs of all parties
0:13:57 > 0:13:59during a Westminster Hall debate.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02They formed a united front to urge the Chancellor Philip Hammond
0:14:02 > 0:14:06to avoid making any defence cuts in the Budget.
0:14:06 > 0:14:10The Ministry of Defence embarked on a new defence review in July.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12According to media reports, it includes proposals to reduce
0:14:12 > 0:14:18the number of Royal Marines by 1,000 or take two specialist
0:14:18 > 0:14:22landing ships, HMS Albion and Bulwark, out of action.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25Today, we must send a united message to the Chancellor
0:14:25 > 0:14:28that his decisions on these matters will have
0:14:28 > 0:14:32consequences, that we cannot do national security on the cheap, that
0:14:32 > 0:14:36we must ensure that our Armed Forces have the resources that they need
0:14:36 > 0:14:39to deal with the threats that we face and that any reduction in our
0:14:39 > 0:14:41amphibious capability or in the numbers of our
0:14:41 > 0:14:45Royal Marines would be the wrong cuts at the wrong time.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47His backbenchers are telling him,
0:14:47 > 0:14:49his own party grandees are telling him and those
0:14:49 > 0:14:52in this room will today, I am sure,
0:14:52 > 0:14:56agree as we prepare to exit the European Union and chart
0:14:56 > 0:15:00a new course for Britain's role in the world, we cannot play
0:15:00 > 0:15:03fast and loose with the defence of the realm.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06She revealed her "fondness" for the Royal Marines.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09I feel immensely privileged to have had the opportunity to visit
0:15:09 > 0:15:12our Royals around the world and even to have taken part,
0:15:12 > 0:15:15sort of, in their Arctic training in Norway,
0:15:15 > 0:15:18at least what are they allowed me to pretend to do.
0:15:18 > 0:15:24I have seen first-hand their extraordinary courage, ability,
0:15:24 > 0:15:25focus and fortitude.
0:15:25 > 0:15:27They are truly an elite fighting force.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29But what really stood out from me, and I'm sure
0:15:29 > 0:15:34for anyone who has spent any time with them, is the mindset
0:15:35 > 0:15:36that they bring to the role.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38First to understand, first to adapt and respond
0:15:38 > 0:15:39and first to overcome.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44A Conservative MP said culling 1,000 marines would be a "grave mistake."
0:15:44 > 0:15:49The Royal Marines are some of the most elite infantry
0:15:49 > 0:15:52in the world and are in effect tier two special forces.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54We also derive around 40% of our tier one
0:15:54 > 0:15:56special forces, the SAS and the SBS, from the Royal Marines.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59Not only do the Royal Marines have an incredibly proud history,
0:15:59 > 0:16:05having recently celebrated their 350th anniversary,
0:16:05 > 0:16:08they also have tremendous utility and
0:16:08 > 0:16:12I can see no defence advantage at all in getting rid
0:16:12 > 0:16:16of 1,000 of the best maritime infantry in the world.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18Johnny Mercer is a former army commando.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21I think it's very important that we don't dictate tactically
0:16:21 > 0:16:25what we ask our professionals to do in this country.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29What I mean by that is that our job here is to ensure, is to hold
0:16:29 > 0:16:32the Government's feet to the fire and to ensure that what they say
0:16:32 > 0:16:35with one hand is matched by the other.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38The Government has a very small majority and we will hold them
0:16:38 > 0:16:40to account on this issue because on this issue, I'm afraid,
0:16:41 > 0:16:42the feelings are running high.
0:16:42 > 0:16:47We have to go back to our constituents and justify what
0:16:47 > 0:16:51we do in this place every weekend and I'm determined that we will come
0:16:51 > 0:16:54through, see them through provide the country
0:16:54 > 0:16:56with the defences we need.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00Albion and Bulwark are strategic assets which other nations rely on.
0:17:00 > 0:17:05Getting rid of this vital command and control capability would be
0:17:05 > 0:17:08nothing short of an abdication of that responsibility and undermine
0:17:08 > 0:17:14UK leadership when it will be under more scrutiny after Brexit.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16This debate has no doubt been prompted by speculation
0:17:16 > 0:17:19in the media on the future of the amphibious ships.
0:17:19 > 0:17:23As members will be aware, the Government has initiated work
0:17:23 > 0:17:28on a review of national security capabilities which is being
0:17:28 > 0:17:31conducted to ensure the UK's investment in national security
0:17:31 > 0:17:36capabilities is as joined up, effective and efficient as possible
0:17:36 > 0:17:42for the threats that we face in the 21st century.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45Will she confirm the press reports that the new
0:17:45 > 0:17:49Secretary of State for Defence has asked the Treasury for more money?
0:17:49 > 0:17:52I can confirm that there have been press reports, yes, Mr Gray.
0:17:52 > 0:17:58I can also confirm that we are one of only 13 Nato countries
0:17:58 > 0:18:02that meet the guideline to spend 20% of our defence budget
0:18:02 > 0:18:06on major equipment and research and development.
0:18:06 > 0:18:11The Defence Minister refusing to give anything away.
0:18:11 > 0:18:13What can be done to increase convictions
0:18:13 > 0:18:15in cases of domestic abuse?
0:18:15 > 0:18:18It was a question put to the Director of Public Prosecutions
0:18:18 > 0:18:21when she appeared in front of the Commons Justice Committee.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23Official figures show there were an estimated two million
0:18:23 > 0:18:27adults aged 16 to 59 who said they were a victim of domestic abuse
0:18:27 > 0:18:32in the last year and according to the Office
0:18:32 > 0:18:35for National statistics, a decision to charge was made for 70%
0:18:35 > 0:18:40of domestic abuse cases referred to the CPS by the police.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43Do you think increasing the scope or in fact
0:18:43 > 0:18:48defining domestic abuse in law as is planned in Scotland in the
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Domestic Abuse Bill that is going through the Scottish Parliament
0:18:51 > 0:18:55would help or does that present its own challenges?
0:18:55 > 0:18:59With the upcoming Domestic Abuse Bill in the New Year
0:18:59 > 0:19:04as promised in the Queen's speech, what needs to change in our approach
0:19:04 > 0:19:10at all levels to domestic abuse in order to increased conviction rates?
0:19:10 > 0:19:12I mean, I think the definition may help.
0:19:12 > 0:19:13Of course, the details...
0:19:13 > 0:19:15The Devil's always in the details, so it
0:19:16 > 0:19:17depends on what the definition is.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20But I think a definition which we're all working to may help.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23We already have that to some extent in that we have
0:19:23 > 0:19:25at least agreed definition of domestic abuse.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28We've been doing some work with the National Criminal
0:19:28 > 0:19:32Justice Board where we've been looking at a study of what works
0:19:32 > 0:19:37in domestic abuse cases and what doesn't, and it is...
0:19:37 > 0:19:40To some extent it's not rocket science.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Some of it's around making sure that cases
0:19:42 > 0:19:46are dealt with very quickly so sometimes we still see delays
0:19:46 > 0:19:49are such that people disengage with the process
0:19:49 > 0:19:52because they want to get on with their lives or their
0:19:52 > 0:19:55relationship may have resumed, making sure that they have the
0:19:55 > 0:19:58support that they need so things like independent and domestic
0:19:58 > 0:20:02violence advisers, making sure that we get the cases
0:20:02 > 0:20:07to specialist courts that understand some of the issues,
0:20:07 > 0:20:12so we know that in some of the Magistrates' Courts
0:20:12 > 0:20:15where they have timescales on them were you get to trial
0:20:15 > 0:20:17within six weeks, that helps and that works.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21Knowing that officers have got body-worn video
0:20:21 > 0:20:25that actually captures not just the defendant but sometimes
0:20:25 > 0:20:29the complainant, the victim as well.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31We prosecuted a case not long ago where
0:20:31 > 0:20:34I think it was a daughter called the police.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37There was a violent domestic incident.
0:20:37 > 0:20:42The victim was in the street bleeding from her injuries.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45She didn't want to give a statement to the police, the daughter didn't
0:20:45 > 0:20:47want to, two officers, one was able to capture
0:20:47 > 0:20:52the defendant who made some incriminating comments on the video
0:20:52 > 0:20:54and one which was able to capture the demeanour and
0:20:55 > 0:20:58the sort of injuries to the victim.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01That and the 999 call we were able to use so
0:21:01 > 0:21:03we didn't have to rely on the victim
0:21:03 > 0:21:05and we obtained a conviction in that case.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08So we are learning more as we go along about the sorts of things
0:21:08 > 0:21:12that we might use in order to get that before the court, so there's
0:21:12 > 0:21:15lots that we can do which don't necessarily need legislation,
0:21:15 > 0:21:23but there may be legislative things as well that would be useful.
0:21:23 > 0:21:24Alison Saunders.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27Peers have been told that tighter rules on the use of airborne drones
0:21:27 > 0:21:29are to be brought in next year.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31Near miss incidents involving aircraft and drones are monitored
0:21:31 > 0:21:33by the UK Airprox Board.
0:21:33 > 0:21:38There were 70 Airprox reports involving drones coming close
0:21:38 > 0:21:43to aircraft over the UK in 2016 -
0:21:43 > 0:21:45more than double the number for 2015.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47Following the public consultation on this in July,
0:21:48 > 0:21:49I can confirm that the Government
0:21:49 > 0:21:51does intend to bring forward legislation
0:21:51 > 0:21:52with regard to drones.
0:21:52 > 0:21:57As set out by my predecessor, we hope to bring legislation forward
0:21:57 > 0:22:00as soon as possible next year including an amendment
0:22:00 > 0:22:02to the Air Navigation Order 2016.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05I will be setting out further details on the
0:22:05 > 0:22:07content and timing of this legislation in the coming weeks.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10My Lords, there are hundreds of thousands of drones now in operation
0:22:10 > 0:22:18and there were over 50 near misses reported
0:22:18 > 0:22:21this year alone on aircraft.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26Is the noble Baroness and Minister aware of the research by
0:22:26 > 0:22:30the British Airline Pilots Association which shows the risks
0:22:30 > 0:22:35and dangers of serious accidents as a result of a drone strike
0:22:35 > 0:22:38and does the Minister accept that the Government
0:22:38 > 0:22:41needs to develop a much greater sense of urgency in dealing
0:22:41 > 0:22:44with this serious problem that will lead to an accident
0:22:45 > 0:22:53if it is not controlled?
0:22:53 > 0:22:57My Lords, I am indeed aware of the evidence put forward on
0:22:57 > 0:23:03the danger of drones that they can cause to aircraft and helicopters.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07I do understand the need to move on this and we are taking action.
0:23:07 > 0:23:12Since the consultation response, we have been assessing
0:23:12 > 0:23:15the best way to implement the legislation which will include
0:23:15 > 0:23:18the registration of drones and leisure pilot tests.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21We are engaging internationally on developing the best practice for
0:23:21 > 0:23:24drone rules and we are reviewing and exploring the other possible
0:23:24 > 0:23:26policies that we set out for further consideration.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Can I ask, what is the Government's current assessment
0:23:29 > 0:23:34of the possibility of a drone being involved in a major incident
0:23:34 > 0:23:36resulting in loss of life or serious injuries?
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Is the possibility of such a major incident becoming more or less
0:23:39 > 0:23:43likely as each day passes?
0:23:43 > 0:23:46My Lords, I am aware that the expectation
0:23:46 > 0:23:47of an incident is high.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51Of course, there hasn't been a significant incident yet, but
0:23:51 > 0:23:56obviously more drones are being sold every day and so we are very clear
0:23:56 > 0:23:58on the need to take action on this.
0:23:58 > 0:24:02We will be setting out as soon as we can the legislation and,
0:24:02 > 0:24:05as I say, in the next couple of weeks,
0:24:05 > 0:24:08I will be able to write to the noble Lords and update them on this.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10Who is going to catch the perpetrators of people
0:24:10 > 0:24:13flying drones illegally and what are they going to do
0:24:13 > 0:24:16about it and how and what kind of penalties could there be?
0:24:16 > 0:24:19There are so many flying around today, who is going to
0:24:20 > 0:24:21identify and catch them?
0:24:21 > 0:24:25My Lords, as I mentioned, we will be extending
0:24:25 > 0:24:26police powers in the legislation.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29I'm sure your Lordships will understand that it is sometimes
0:24:29 > 0:24:31a challenge to link an operator to a drone.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33We are trying to help address this by bringing forward
0:24:33 > 0:24:35a registration system and we are also investigating
0:24:35 > 0:24:36electronic identification.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39For the legislation, we are looking at powers for the
0:24:39 > 0:24:41police to require the production of the registration ID
0:24:41 > 0:24:42and documents for drone users.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45Also that they will be able to require a drone user
0:24:45 > 0:24:47to land their drone and also to search for and seize
0:24:47 > 0:24:49a drone when there is reasonable belief
0:24:49 > 0:24:52that a crime has taken place and we very much hope
0:24:52 > 0:24:54that this will enable police to capture people
0:24:54 > 0:24:56who are misusing drones.
0:24:56 > 0:24:58Can I understand that this legislation will cover other illegal
0:24:58 > 0:25:04uses of drones such as the reports of drones being used
0:25:04 > 0:25:09to take illicit drugs into prisons and other illegal activities
0:25:09 > 0:25:10associated with these machines?
0:25:10 > 0:25:13My Lords, we will be looking to expand these powders in the bill.
0:25:13 > 0:25:14I'm aware of course of the issue
0:25:14 > 0:25:23of smuggling illegal substances into prisons.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25They are working with HM Prison Information Service to ensure
0:25:25 > 0:25:28that they are analysing drone use and acting upon it.
0:25:28 > 0:25:31And that's it from me for now, but do join me at the same time
0:25:31 > 0:25:34tomorrow for a round up of what promises to be
0:25:34 > 0:25:35a busy day at Westminster.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38At midday, it's Prime Minister's Questions when Theresa May will once
0:25:38 > 0:25:40again face Jeremy Corbyn across the despatch box
0:25:40 > 0:25:42and immediately after that, the Chancellor Philip Hammond
0:25:42 > 0:25:43will deliver his latest budget.
0:25:43 > 0:25:53But for now, from me, Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.