26/10/2015

:01:32. > :01:36.Lewis Hamilton is the second British driver to win three world Grand Prix

:01:37. > :01:42.titles. Hello, welcome to the programme,

:01:43. > :01:45.we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Throughout the programme we'll bring

:01:46. > :01:50.you the latest breaking news and developing stories and - as always -

:01:51. > :01:53.we're keen to hear from you. A little later this morning

:01:54. > :01:56.the World Health Organisation is expected to say that red

:01:57. > :01:59.and processed meat is potentially If that's the case, will it make you

:02:00. > :02:05.cut down on the amount you eat? And after 10 we'll talk to

:02:06. > :02:10.Boy Meets Girl star Rebecca Root - she's described comments

:02:11. > :02:12.by Germaine Greer that transwomen aren't really women as "outmoded,

:02:13. > :02:18.outdated and outrageous". You can also watch

:02:19. > :02:23.the programme wherever you are online via the bbc news app or

:02:24. > :02:29.our website bbc.co.uk/victoria. We start the programme

:02:30. > :02:32.by talking about an issue that you tell us is incredibly important to

:02:33. > :02:36.you - planned cuts to tax credits. The Government is facing

:02:37. > :02:38.a possible defeat in the House It's estimated around three million

:02:39. > :02:44.families could, on average, be more But the Government maintains

:02:45. > :02:52.the cuts should be seen as part of a package of measures

:02:53. > :02:55.which includes a higher minimum wage Today the House

:02:56. > :03:01.of Lords could vote to reject the A motion tabled by Lib Dem Peers,

:03:02. > :03:05.could kill The Government has been under

:03:06. > :03:11.growing pressure to back down over plans to introduce

:03:12. > :03:16.the cuts in April next year. Here's Jim Reed on how much people

:03:17. > :03:36.can get under the current system. Tax credits were New Labour's baby.

:03:37. > :03:44.There are two main types. First child tax credit. Now claimed by

:03:45. > :03:49.four million families. ?140 odd that is the money we need to feed our

:03:50. > :03:54.kids and clothe our kids. Fair enough if you have partners, send

:03:55. > :03:56.them out to work. If you're a single parent with three children that

:03:57. > :04:01.needs to be looked after and cared for and I'm the only person to do

:04:02. > :04:08.it, it is going to destroy me. It wouldn't put it past me if it drove

:04:09. > :04:17.me nuts. Calculating tax credits is complex. But familiar clis get more

:04:18. > :04:24.than more than ?3 thousand 3,000 for their first children. Very

:04:25. > :04:30.important. Very important. We couldn't survive without tax

:04:31. > :04:37.credits. Without income support, couldn't support. If they cut them

:04:38. > :04:43.back further? Then I will have to do something and try and get money

:04:44. > :04:47.somehow. I don't know how. Next work tax credit, paid to low income

:04:48. > :04:51.workers. Again it is complex and depends on whether you have

:04:52. > :04:57.children. But if you're working full-time on the minimum wage you

:04:58. > :05:02.get an extra ?1,300 a year in credits, plus child care costs. I

:05:03. > :05:06.get work and family tax credit. If they stop that, it wouldn't be worth

:05:07. > :05:11.working, I would be worse off. At the moment I get help with my rent.

:05:12. > :05:16.If they stop that, the wages I get for 20 hours would just cover my

:05:17. > :05:24.rent. So I would have no money. I would be broke. To their supporters

:05:25. > :05:29.tax credits are an important way of getting people out of poverty and

:05:30. > :05:34.into work. Critics say the system is costing ?30 billion a year and

:05:35. > :05:39.should be up to employers to pay a higher wage. More on that in a

:05:40. > :05:48.second. Pausing to bring you this news it is being reported by Reuters

:05:49. > :05:53.that there has been about earthquake in Northern Pakistan, earthquake of

:05:54. > :06:00.7.7 magnitude strikes in Northern Pakistan. That is all the details we

:06:01. > :06:04.have at the moment. An earthquake of 7.7 magnitude in Northern Pakistan.

:06:05. > :06:08.As soon as we have more we will bring it to you. So back to tax

:06:09. > :06:10.credits. Currently,

:06:11. > :06:14.if you earn less than ?6,420 you get the full entitlement of working tax

:06:15. > :06:17.credits, which as Jim said, depends on things like how many hours you've

:06:18. > :06:24.worked and how much you earn. But the income threshold,

:06:25. > :06:27.as it's known, is set to drop to In other words, as soon

:06:28. > :06:31.as someone earns ?3,850, they will The income threshold for those only

:06:32. > :06:35.claiming child tax credits will also The rate at which those payments

:06:36. > :06:49.are cut is also going to get faster Currently, for every ?1 people

:06:50. > :06:57.earn above the threshold, they But from April,

:06:58. > :07:10.the taper rate will go up so people will lose 48p of every

:07:11. > :07:13.pound they earn over the threshold. So how much are people

:07:14. > :07:15.going to lose? It's thought around 3.2 million

:07:16. > :07:17.families will be around ?1,300 worse off under the new changes, but it'll

:07:18. > :07:21.differ from person to person - Labour -

:07:22. > :07:25.in the form of Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell - are making

:07:26. > :07:35.the Chancellor, George Osborne, I know what a U-turn looks like and

:07:36. > :07:39.how it can damage you, but we need a U-turn on this one and I have said

:07:40. > :07:44.to him look, if you can change your mind on this, we will not make any

:07:45. > :07:48.political capital out of it. If the Lords throw this out and put it back

:07:49. > :07:53.to government I have said if you change your mind, bring back a

:07:54. > :07:55.policy in which people are protected we will not in any way attack you

:07:56. > :08:00.for that. N we will support you. And George Osborne isn't short of

:08:01. > :08:03.suggestions from Labour politicians. He agrees with the Chancellor

:08:04. > :08:07.on cutting the tax credit bill, Under his proposal, people would get

:08:08. > :08:11.the full whack of tax credit money if they earn just under five grand,

:08:12. > :08:14.rather than the Government's figure He also wants to increase the rate

:08:15. > :08:23.at which tax credits are clawed back from people earning above 13 grand

:08:24. > :08:36.a year - or about what you get I'm not against the reform, but

:08:37. > :08:40.clearly tax credits are here to stay for much longer than the Government

:08:41. > :08:45.initially thought and this would be a really good point of in a sense

:08:46. > :08:51.recasting tax credits so you can take people out at the top income

:08:52. > :08:54.bands, but protect people at the bottom.

:08:55. > :08:58.There will be a vote in the House of Commons about his plan on Thursday.

:08:59. > :09:00.Before that though, there's another hurdle to get over.

:09:01. > :09:03.In the Lords today the Labour Peer Baroness Hollis has also put forward

:09:04. > :09:06.an amendment, which could force the Government to delay the cuts.

:09:07. > :09:08.They'll also vote on what's called a "fatal motion".

:09:09. > :09:11.It's a rarely-used tactic that's been tabled by the Lib Dems that

:09:12. > :09:14.The Education Secretary, Nicki Morgan had this warning

:09:15. > :09:29.I think the House of Lords should be clear it is a revising chamber.

:09:30. > :09:33.Often they make good points, but they're striking down 70% of vote

:09:34. > :09:37.they have, they have made it more difficult for us op child care. That

:09:38. > :09:43.is one thing people want to see us deliver our pledge. Without going

:09:44. > :09:48.into specifics, what you're saying to the House of Lords is be careful

:09:49. > :10:01.and think about your much v future. Future. They should be careful. I

:10:02. > :10:07.want to bring you more about the news that a powerful weak has been

:10:08. > :10:17.felt in Northern Pakistan. The earthquake had a magnitude of 7.7

:10:18. > :10:21.and it has been felt in Islamabad and New Delhi. That is all the

:10:22. > :10:28.detail we have at the moment. A strong earthquake in Pakistan.

:10:29. > :10:32.Reuters are saying it had a magnitude of 7.7.

:10:33. > :10:35.We can now speak to Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi who supports cuts

:10:36. > :10:38.to tax credits, Conservative MP Stephen McPartland, who is against

:10:39. > :10:41.the Government's plans. Labour Peer Baroness Hollis who put

:10:42. > :10:43.forward a motion to delay the introduction the changes and

:10:44. > :10:53.Janette Hollis, a mum of six who will be affected by the changes.

:10:54. > :11:01.-- Janet Davy. With all the changes the Chancellor is making, tax credit

:11:02. > :11:06.changes and raising the threshold before people start paying tax.

:11:07. > :11:11.Taking that into account. And a 30 hours a week child care and tax free

:11:12. > :11:15.child care. If you have children. The Chancellor said two in ten

:11:16. > :11:21.working families will be worse off. Two in ten working families will be

:11:22. > :11:27.worse off. How this a fair? Well, you're looking at it the other way

:11:28. > :11:32.eight of ten will be better off. There is one thing that will be

:11:33. > :11:35.difficult to model, which is the Chancellor, the first Conservative

:11:36. > :11:43.Chancellor to come up with a national living wage. No, no, I'm

:11:44. > :11:47.not going to be diverted. Taking all the changes into account, two in ten

:11:48. > :11:53.people will be worse off. How do you justify that? By saying it is eight

:11:54. > :11:58.of ten people will be better off. It is tough? Let me give you this quick

:11:59. > :12:04.sort of what is happening on the ground example. What is happening on

:12:05. > :12:07.the ground is that two in ten work people who get up every day and go

:12:08. > :12:10.to work, you a Conservative government that claims to be on the

:12:11. > :12:18.side of hard working family, them be poorer. What is happening on the

:12:19. > :12:22.ground is people like Morrissons and Liddle have followed the Chancellor

:12:23. > :12:29.and said we will raise wages now. That is not model. Despite that two

:12:30. > :12:36.in ten people will be worse off. That is not modelled. The two in

:12:37. > :12:43.tennis from modelling. I'm using the Chancellor's figures. The economy is

:12:44. > :12:50.responding and you have to believe me Alistair Darling. The former

:12:51. > :12:54.Labour Chancellor. I'm going with the Conservative Chancellor and

:12:55. > :13:00.you're ignoring it. No I'm saying eight out of ten people will be

:13:01. > :13:04.better off. An average family. How this a a consolation to the two in

:13:05. > :13:09.ten that will be worse off? We have to take some tough decisions. How

:13:10. > :13:16.this a a consolation to them. It is not. But we have to save 4.4

:13:17. > :13:25.billion. You don't have to do it. We can cut nurses and funding of

:13:26. > :13:29.schools. You could not inheritance tax, you could introduce a sugar

:13:30. > :13:33.tax. You have made a choice to make work bg people worse off. No we have

:13:34. > :13:39.made a choice to create an economy that will be high wage and lower

:13:40. > :13:43.welfare and lower tax. The personal allowance going up to 12 and a half

:13:44. > :13:47.thousand creating that economy. That is the, it is philosophical

:13:48. > :13:52.argument, what sort of country do you want to live? One where

:13:53. > :13:55.employers use the excuse of tax credits to suppress wages or where

:13:56. > :14:01.employers pay the national living wage. Are you in denial? No, I have

:14:02. > :14:08.said eight out of ten families will be better off. We have to make tough

:14:09. > :14:14.decisions. There is nothing decent about crashing an economy and taxing

:14:15. > :14:20.people too much. It is moral to make people who work poorer? People who

:14:21. > :14:26.don't earn much will be hurt badly if we are irresponsible and crash

:14:27. > :14:32.the economy. What would you say to him? It is gobsmacking, the comments

:14:33. > :14:37.that are coming out that eight out of ten people will be better off.

:14:38. > :14:42.That is great. Businesses can they afford that living wage? That is a

:14:43. > :14:46.huge consideration? There are small businesses that employ just a few

:14:47. > :14:51.individuals by upping that living wage, can they afford to keep people

:14:52. > :14:59.on or will we have more unemployed people. How would you be affected by

:15:00. > :15:03.the changes? I have find an extra hundred pound a work and I already

:15:04. > :15:08.work every hour I can. I can't work any more. So I would like him to

:15:09. > :15:13.have a look at what I do, have a look at my budget and see where I'm

:15:14. > :15:22.going to find a hundred pound a month from. It is not possible me

:15:23. > :15:28.and many others. Do you have any idea where she should get that extra

:15:29. > :15:35.hundred pounds. I don't know the edill details. I don't know how many

:15:36. > :15:40.children she has. Six. You have two hundred pound, the tax free child

:15:41. > :15:47.care amount, ?2,000. 30 hours of child care we have increased from 10

:15:48. > :15:55.to 30. Have you taken into account. The 30 free hours it not available.

:15:56. > :16:00.The figures don't go together. 30 hour is for three and four-year-old,

:16:01. > :16:09.what about the two-year-old I have to pay child care for?

:16:10. > :16:15.It is going to be much harder if we don't do anything and if we borrow

:16:16. > :16:25.too much and tax too much. What are the choices? Do we cut nurses and

:16:26. > :16:29.doctors or education? Baroness Hollis why would it be OK for the

:16:30. > :16:34.unelected Lords to delay or scrap what the elected House of Commons

:16:35. > :16:42.has voted on on a couple of times? Yes, what we're doing is seeking to

:16:43. > :16:48.delay the effect of these cuts so that we give existing families

:16:49. > :16:54.protection against them. These cuts would only apply to new claimants

:16:55. > :16:59.tax credits and as people move over to Universal Credit which the

:17:00. > :17:05.Government thinks they will all have done by 2020 the cuts will be fully

:17:06. > :17:11.in play and the Government will make its full savings, but the key thing

:17:12. > :17:17.about tax credits is if you are a lone parent with children and having

:17:18. > :17:22.to work reduced hours, the Living Wage is great, but it is not enough

:17:23. > :17:24.to live on. You need some Income Support on top for a while until

:17:25. > :17:28.actually you don't need it anymore. Now... Would you be bullied by the

:17:29. > :17:31.Government? No. What about the cross-benchers who have no

:17:32. > :17:34.allegiance to a particular party? Have they been coming under

:17:35. > :17:39.pressure? They have. In what way? They have been strong armed and told

:17:40. > :17:44.this is a constitutional crisis which is a fig leaf. What we're

:17:45. > :17:47.doing with this is seeking to ask the Chancellor to produce

:17:48. > :17:52.transitional protection for existing families and as wages rise, tax

:17:53. > :17:56.credits which are means-tested fall. As people move over to UC, tax

:17:57. > :18:00.credits and under UC cuts will come into play. The Government will make

:18:01. > :18:03.its savings. You will have heard the Education Secretary say the

:18:04. > :18:07.Chancellor is in long mode yesterday. Might that stop peers

:18:08. > :18:12.voting either against the changes or to delay them? What would happen

:18:13. > :18:17.tonight, I hope, if they support the motion to give a delay in order to

:18:18. > :18:22.give transitional protection, it gives the Chancellor the breathing

:18:23. > :18:27.space to come back with his, I hope, mitigations. If they don't support

:18:28. > :18:32.that, this statutory instrulment is law tonight and Janet will feel the

:18:33. > :18:35.experience of it. Steve McPart land tell your colleague why you have

:18:36. > :18:40.voted against your own Government on this? I understand and I am the

:18:41. > :18:43.first to say the tax credits need to be reformed. We're spending ?30

:18:44. > :18:47.billion a year on them. They have gone out of control. ?1 billion is

:18:48. > :18:51.lost in fraud, but my concern is around those people who aren't going

:18:52. > :18:55.to benefit from the changes and positive aspects that the Chancellor

:18:56. > :19:00.has announced the so for me, I have used the example of a Teaching

:19:01. > :19:05.Assistant hold be earning ?11,000 a year and if he or she doesn't have a

:19:06. > :19:09.three or four-year-old child she will not benefit from the free

:19:10. > :19:12.childcare. They can't benefit from the increases in personal tax

:19:13. > :19:17.allowances because they don't earn enough. I want to focus the debate

:19:18. > :19:23.on those people who were going to because of the reduction in the

:19:24. > :19:27.income threshold, receive a ?1200 cut and for me, for Teaching

:19:28. > :19:31.Assistant to be losing 10% of their income, and have no ability to make

:19:32. > :19:36.that up anywhere else is just too much for me. So the Chancellor has

:19:37. > :19:39.to come forward with some mitigation and I am continuing to speak out

:19:40. > :19:43.until he does come forward with that mitigation. Do you think that's

:19:44. > :19:45.likely to happen? I believe at the Autumn Statement he will come out

:19:46. > :19:48.and he will mitigate for the families on the lowest incomes

:19:49. > :19:50.because at the end of the day, the Labour Party have left these

:19:51. > :19:54.families behind. These are the families we need to be reaching out

:19:55. > :19:57.to. They got up, they go to work, they are trying and there has to be

:19:58. > :20:02.reform of the tax credit system. But there has to be a fairer way of

:20:03. > :20:06.doing it. Let me read a couple of messages from people watching you

:20:07. > :20:10.discuss this around the country. Derek says, "Shame on anyone who

:20:11. > :20:12.voted on the tax credit cuts." Another e-mail says, "While the

:20:13. > :20:19.Conservatives are continuing to punish the poor. I was not put on

:20:20. > :20:23.this planet to make George Osborne's spread sheet look good." Janet, you

:20:24. > :20:26.may have heard this before, why should a single parent feel she has

:20:27. > :20:32.a right to have her children fed and clothed by me? Don says, "Have

:20:33. > :20:38.unlimited children. Don't worry. The rest of us will pay for it. "

:20:39. > :20:43.Another says, "Your guest chose to have six children, her choice, why

:20:44. > :20:46.should my taxes fund them?" When I decided to have six children, I was

:20:47. > :20:52.married and I was a full-time teacher and we had a joint income of

:20:53. > :20:56.?60,000 and we were not using tax credits, we were well off and I was

:20:57. > :21:00.running a business part-time and unfortunately things happen and

:21:01. > :21:03.situations change as a result, I am a single-parent, I never planned to

:21:04. > :21:07.be being married for 20 years and could afford them. And that's what

:21:08. > :21:10.the welfare system is for, it is for when you're in situations that are

:21:11. > :21:13.beyond your control and you need that little bit of assistance, not

:21:14. > :21:17.forever, this is a short-term thing until my children are that little

:21:18. > :21:21.bit older. I have worked since we split up, I had a baby three weeks

:21:22. > :21:26.after we split up, and I wept back to work when he was a few weeks old,

:21:27. > :21:31.working on my business. I work two or three businesses at the moment.

:21:32. > :21:35.I'm also employed. I work every hour as a single parent to bring my

:21:36. > :21:38.children up in the best way that I What would your can. Message to

:21:39. > :21:41.George Osborne be if he were sitting here what, would you say to him? I

:21:42. > :21:46.would say, I understand that the country needs to make cuts. However,

:21:47. > :21:50.you are cutting it not from people who are not working, you are cutting

:21:51. > :21:55.from working people. You say work pays and yet those of us who are

:21:56. > :21:59.working from 5am until midnight often, and single parents that are

:22:00. > :22:04.working, every minute they physically can as well as trying to

:22:05. > :22:08.bring up their children into today's society, you are the punishing them,

:22:09. > :22:12.you are not punishing those people who are not working. You can cut

:22:13. > :22:15.other subsidiesment there are corporate subsidies that could be

:22:16. > :22:19.cut. You give millions of pounds to energy companies for example, you

:22:20. > :22:22.give money to film companies such as Disney to make films here. There are

:22:23. > :22:25.cuts you can make without taking it from people who are working every

:22:26. > :22:29.minute that they physically can to bring up their children. Thank you

:22:30. > :22:33.very much Janet. Thank you for coming on the programme. We will

:22:34. > :22:38.report back on what happens in the Lords later today here on BBC News.

:22:39. > :22:42.Some more about the powerful earthquake that struck Northern

:22:43. > :22:46.Pakistan. Initial reports said it had a magnitude of 7.7. It

:22:47. > :22:49.Pakistan. Initial reports said it felt in India and Afghanistan. The

:22:50. > :22:53.latest details are coming in from the AFP News Agency. A strong

:22:54. > :22:57.earthquake lasting almost a minute has been felt in New deli today with

:22:58. > :23:06.buildings shaking in the centre of the Indian capital. Tremors were

:23:07. > :23:09.felt as far away as Islamabad and the Afghan capital, Kabul, but not

:23:10. > :23:12.in neighbouring Nepal. Hundreds of people raced from buildings on to

:23:13. > :23:18.the streets in Delhi while the quake was also felt in the Himalayan

:23:19. > :23:23.region of cashmere. This is according to AFP. A powerful

:23:24. > :23:28.earthquake which struck Northern Pakistan has been felt in India and

:23:29. > :23:31.Afghanistan. Hundreds of people racing from buildings on to the

:23:32. > :23:37.streets in Delhi in India while the quake was also felt in cashmere.

:23:38. > :23:41.More to come on that throughout the programme this morning.

:23:42. > :23:44.Do we need to rethink how our justice system handles the deaths

:23:45. > :23:48.The daughter of someone killed on his bike tells us

:23:49. > :23:57.And we'll hear from one transgender star, from BBC Two's Boy Meets Girl

:23:58. > :23:59.about Germain Greer's comments that trans women are kidding themselves

:24:00. > :24:18.The Government is appealing to members of the House of Lords not to

:24:19. > :24:23.Ministers says the unelected Lords would be over reaching themselves if

:24:24. > :24:29.they vote down financial measures approved by MPs. Opponents accuse

:24:30. > :24:34.them of trying to force through are forms without proper scrutiny. A

:24:35. > :24:37.powerful earthquake struck Northern Pakistan including Islamabad and

:24:38. > :24:41.other cities. The quake, which initial report say had a magnitude

:24:42. > :24:48.of 7.7 has been felt in India and Afghanistan.

:24:49. > :24:51.More efforts to deal with the influx of migrants agreed at

:24:52. > :24:55.Hundreds of police are to be sent to Slovenia and Greece to

:24:56. > :24:58.And there'll be another 100,000 places at temporary shelters

:24:59. > :25:02.New research on whether or not eating red meat carries

:25:03. > :25:06.The World Health Organization is publishing

:25:07. > :25:11.a report that also covers processed meat like sausages and salami.

:25:12. > :25:16.Meat producers are already critical, saying the study considers only

:25:17. > :25:23.At least five people are dead after a whale-watching boat sank

:25:24. > :25:26.21 people were rescued during a huge search operation.

:25:27. > :25:46.Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Ore.

:25:47. > :25:54.Lewis Hamilton did it after winning a thrilling US Grand Prix in Austin,

:25:55. > :25:58.Texas. Lewis Hamilton wonnist first world title in 2008 and his second

:25:59. > :26:03.last year in 2014. Both the titles went down to the final race. He has

:26:04. > :26:08.three races to go, but he reckons this is his best win so far as it

:26:09. > :26:12.equals the great, the late, Ayrton Senna. We will talk about Lewis

:26:13. > :26:15.Hamilton later on. We will rattle through the sport and England's

:26:16. > :26:20.cricketers staring down the barrel of defet in Dubai in the second Test

:26:21. > :26:24.against Pakistan. They have got 200 runs to win with about two or three

:26:25. > :26:31.wickets to go. Looking unlikely for Alastair Cook and his men in Dubai

:26:32. > :26:33.and we've got our final finalists for the Rugby World Cup. Australia

:26:34. > :26:40.against New Zealand at Twickenham on Saturday. We will round that up

:26:41. > :26:44.later in the morning. This news is just coming in. It has been reported

:26:45. > :26:48.by Reuters and they are saying that a Belgium military barracks has been

:26:49. > :26:53.attacked by a gunman and shots have been fired. Those are all the

:26:54. > :26:57.details we have got at this stage. A Belgian military barracks has been

:26:58. > :27:00.attacked by a gunman. Shots have been fired. That's being reported by

:27:01. > :27:06.Reuters. We will bring you more as soon as we have it.

:27:07. > :27:08.Next this morning, is the legal system biased against cyclists

:27:09. > :27:12.Every year around 115 cyclists die in accidents across the UK.

:27:13. > :27:15.Of those that involve a car, only about 50% lead to a driver

:27:16. > :27:20.Now, the man who used to be in charge of all prosecutions is

:27:21. > :27:27.Keir Starmer, who's now a Labour MP, has told this programme cases

:27:28. > :27:29.should automatically be referred to the Crown Prosecution Service to

:27:30. > :27:31.decide whether or not a prosecution should go ahead.

:27:32. > :27:34.At the moment the police can make that decision, but some families

:27:35. > :27:37.have told us too often there's a presumption amongst officers that

:27:38. > :27:43.We asked Anna Tatton-Brown, a BBC journalist who works

:27:44. > :27:48.Her Dad died after he was knocked off his bike

:27:49. > :27:58.The film contains some distressing images.

:27:59. > :28:02.Does the justice system let down cyclists?

:28:03. > :28:05.Why does it seem bike riders killed in accidents on our roads are so

:28:06. > :28:11.A senior lawyer tells us the system consistently fails to

:28:12. > :28:15.The criminal justice system is biassed in favour

:28:16. > :28:20.A top police chief says it's too dangerous to ride regularly

:28:21. > :28:27.If you said to me would I feel safe as a commuter in London, then no,

:28:28. > :28:33.And the former Director of Public Prosecutions suggests

:28:34. > :28:40.If a cyclist is knocked off by a driver of a car or some other

:28:41. > :28:43.vehicle, there is the beginnings of a presumption that it is

:28:44. > :28:56.I'm Anna, and last year my dad died on his bike here in Central London.

:28:57. > :28:59.I am going to take look at whether the families

:29:00. > :29:02.of cyclists who die on our roads are let down by the police,

:29:03. > :29:07.My dad was cycling home this way, up this Central London road,

:29:08. > :29:10.when he was knocked often his bike, right there.

:29:11. > :29:13.He was in hospital in a coma for three weeks,

:29:14. > :29:19.At the inquest into my father's death, the driver

:29:20. > :29:25.She said it was like something falling from the sky.

:29:26. > :29:27.Afterwards, the coroner's verdict was that

:29:28. > :29:34.Society obviously depends on families joining together.

:29:35. > :29:42.Here's my dad, Mick Mason, in happier times at my weddings.

:29:43. > :29:45.He was a gentle, unassuming Geordie, who often had a twinkle in his eye.

:29:46. > :29:47.Dad was an interior designer, until he retrained

:29:48. > :29:54.Cycling was one of the many things he and I bonded over.

:29:55. > :30:03.She was really close to my dad, and was staying with him at the time.

:30:04. > :30:06.Do you remember where you were when you heard about Mick's accident?

:30:07. > :30:13.I'd had a few messages and missed calls off my dad,

:30:14. > :30:17.and when I rung him back, my dad told me he and mum were on

:30:18. > :30:21.the way to the hospital, and Mick had been involved in an accident.

:30:22. > :30:25.I sort of went through the thought of should I stay, should I go, and

:30:26. > :30:30.then it became evident, incredibly clear I should get on a bus and go

:30:31. > :30:36.My family and I had questions about how the police were investigating

:30:37. > :30:42.Potential witnesses weren't chased as we would have liked, and they

:30:43. > :30:47.didn't appear to think about what we were going through as a family.

:30:48. > :30:51.So the key problem with Mick's case seems to be there was no-one that

:30:52. > :30:52.actually saw the moment of collision.

:30:53. > :30:56.Yes, which on Regent Street you would think was a bit strange.

:30:57. > :30:59.Well, given it was 6.15 at night, and people are streaming out

:31:00. > :31:02.of work, out of shops, and quite a lot of people tweeted

:31:03. > :31:08.photos that evening, so I thought there would be loads of witnesses.

:31:09. > :31:11.Considering the main crux of the issue about not being able to

:31:12. > :31:17.To this day, I don't know that they contacted any of the people

:31:18. > :31:23.A leading cycling charity who have helped me told us they have seen

:31:24. > :31:27.dozens of cases like my dad's over the last few years.

:31:28. > :31:33.They said the families of cyclists who die in road accidents often feel

:31:34. > :31:35.disappointed with the way the cases have been dealt with by police,

:31:36. > :31:39.Last year, a BBC Newsbeat investigation got stats

:31:40. > :32:21.These are the figures on the information available to us.

:32:22. > :32:24.The quiet lanes of Kent are very different to

:32:25. > :32:27.the central London street where my dad had his accident.

:32:28. > :32:31.I've come to visit the wife and son of Richard Jordan, who died after

:32:32. > :32:42.Richard was cycling down this hill, with a car coming the other way.

:32:43. > :32:52.The family believe he was knocked off, but at the inquest

:32:53. > :32:56.the police and the coroner said the car didn't cause the accident.

:32:57. > :33:00.The manner of my father's riding was very slow and steady.

:33:01. > :33:04.He did it for pleasure, and to keep fit, and he would go round and stop

:33:05. > :33:07.off at various points to look at the countryside and just relax.

:33:08. > :33:14.I just couldn't believe that he could have just fallen off his bike,

:33:15. > :33:19.There was no cuts, no grazes on him at all.

:33:20. > :33:25.His face was just one massive swelling on the left-hand side.

:33:26. > :33:29.Obviously, he was in a coma, I couldn't talk,

:33:30. > :33:39.And it was just one big sort of puzzle as to what had happened.

:33:40. > :33:41.The Jordans have complained about the police investigation

:33:42. > :33:52.One of their main concerns is about a 999 call made to report

:33:53. > :34:00.During the call, the driver and passenger involved in the

:34:01. > :34:02.accident can be heard talking about whether their car hit Richard.

:34:03. > :34:19.He came off, we hit the bike, we went over the bike.

:34:20. > :34:24.That was what happened, because he just absolutely lost it.

:34:25. > :34:27.The Jordans say the police have never given the call much weight.

:34:28. > :34:30.A witness statement was taken from the driver you heard there,

:34:31. > :34:33.but he was never fully questioned by officers.

:34:34. > :34:37.This is the bike Richard was riding when he died.

:34:38. > :34:40.After the family complained to the police watchdog, known as

:34:41. > :34:46.the IPCC, Kent Police were ordered to explain several key points.

:34:47. > :34:51.First, why police didn't seize the car involved.

:34:52. > :34:55.Why the car was examined just once and only by torchlight.

:34:56. > :34:56.And whether the unqualified investigating

:34:57. > :35:04.The saddle was completely smashed off.

:35:05. > :35:11.The coroner said the way Richard was cycling contributed to his death,

:35:12. > :35:13.but the Jordans still think the police have questions to answer.

:35:14. > :35:18.They've now been waiting over a year for the final report.

:35:19. > :35:21.They've stopped us knowing what happened

:35:22. > :35:30.But we've just no, absolutely no idea how he died of such horrific

:35:31. > :35:33.injuries, and yet they are telling us a car wasn't involved.

:35:34. > :35:40.I got the impression, silly old devil, rode his bike,

:35:41. > :35:46.wasn't concentrating, killed himself, and that was it.

:35:47. > :35:49.In a statement, Kent Police said they were sorry that the family

:35:50. > :35:52.of Richard Jordan did not feel they received the service they deserved

:35:53. > :35:56.All reasonable lines of inquiry are now completed

:35:57. > :36:07.and the investigation into Mr Jordan's death has now been closed.

:36:08. > :36:09.This was the night of my dad's accident.

:36:10. > :36:11.And at this point we weren't giving the

:36:12. > :36:17.But, as time went by, we felt the police were insensitive

:36:18. > :36:26.in the way they dealt with us after the trauma of that night.

:36:27. > :36:29.One officer even asked us if we wondered whether my dad might

:36:30. > :36:33.She is in charge of policing Britain's roads.

:36:34. > :36:36.I would not expect and want any of my officers to do anything other

:36:37. > :36:42.than display empathy for people, and be sensitive to, you know,

:36:43. > :36:46.the context and the environment they're operating in.

:36:47. > :36:51.Clearly, having people that are not necessarily as sensitive

:36:52. > :36:54.as they could and should be is something you don't want to add to

:36:55. > :36:58.So I would say, if that is your experience,

:36:59. > :37:01.then on behalf of policing I would apologise to you for that.

:37:02. > :37:06.She strongly defended how police investigate road deaths, but

:37:07. > :37:11.admitted she personally would have concerns about cycling in London.

:37:12. > :37:15.If you said to me, would I want to commute

:37:16. > :37:18.on a day-to-day basis in London, you know, then, no I wouldn't.

:37:19. > :37:24.It's too busy, there are too many risks.

:37:25. > :37:28.Every day there are a range of people who don't go home

:37:29. > :37:34.It's no surprise to this senior lawyer, who takes

:37:35. > :37:37.a special interest in cycling, and helped with my dad's case.

:37:38. > :37:42.He thinks the attitude of the police is part of the problem.

:37:43. > :37:46.They're looking at cycling as the dangerous activity, and their

:37:47. > :37:51.emphasis, and that of some coroners, is upon whether a cyclist was

:37:52. > :37:55.wearing a crash helmet or hi-vis equipment and so on, rather than on

:37:56. > :37:59.whether those who are driving in the vicinity of vulnerable road

:38:00. > :38:01.users, like cyclists, are taking the appropriate amount

:38:02. > :38:21.A year on from my dad's death we held a vigil.

:38:22. > :38:24.Together with other cyclists, I lay down at the spot where he died.

:38:25. > :38:27.It is called a die-in and happens quite often in London to remember

:38:28. > :38:30.That day police told a journalist they would pass

:38:31. > :38:33.my dad's case to prosecutors, which could lead to a trial.

:38:34. > :38:36.But this changed just four days later, when police again went

:38:37. > :38:39.straight to the journalist, saying the case was actually closed.

:38:40. > :38:41.No-one has ever offered me an explanation as to why they

:38:42. > :38:45.thought it was OK to communicate with a journalist and not me, and it

:38:46. > :38:51.On the anniversary of his death, they're messing us round like this.

:38:52. > :38:54.Keir Starmer is the former Director of Public Prosecutions,

:38:55. > :38:57.and used to make decisions on whether cases passed to him by the

:38:58. > :39:06.He said that system might need to change.

:39:07. > :39:09.I think there's a very strong case for saying where there's a death

:39:10. > :39:11.involved, if it's serious enough to have had a criminal investigation,

:39:12. > :39:18.then it really ought to go off to the CPS for a final decision.

:39:19. > :39:20.Normally, the police investigate a crime and

:39:21. > :39:23.then decide whether to pass it to prosecutors at the CPS, so what he's

:39:24. > :39:33.He also had something to say about road accidents and civil lawsuits.

:39:34. > :39:38.There's been a discussion going on for some time as to whether

:39:39. > :39:41.liability is in the right place, and whether there ought to be some

:39:42. > :39:44.shifting of liability, so if a cyclist is knocked off by a driver

:39:45. > :39:47.of a car, or some other vehicle, that there's the beginnings

:39:48. > :39:50.of a presumption that it's the vehicle that is in the wrong.

:39:51. > :39:54.I think you have to be very careful with this, and I wouldn't want to go

:39:55. > :39:56.to strict liability, where it's automatically thought that one party

:39:57. > :40:04.is at fault, but we may need to start looking again at that balance.

:40:05. > :40:08.I really wanted to talk to the Metropolitan Police

:40:09. > :40:12.about my dad's case, but they sent me a statement instead.

:40:13. > :40:14.We followed all available lines of inquiry in this case.

:40:15. > :40:17.Mr Mason's family has already received a an apology

:40:18. > :40:19.and an explanation for the miscommunication, and we can

:40:20. > :40:25.It is wrong, however, to suggest that the investigators

:40:26. > :40:28.directly inferred or suggested that Mr Mason was in some way responsible

:40:29. > :40:37.My family's experiences aren't unique,

:40:38. > :40:40.and I wonder whether the problem might be a kind of institutional

:40:41. > :40:44.Too often the starting point seems to be whether the cyclist could

:40:45. > :40:49.My family and I still want to know what happened to my dad

:40:50. > :40:52.on that street behind me, and the police aren't taking his case

:40:53. > :40:57.any further, so the only option left to us is a private prosecution.

:40:58. > :40:59.Lawyers acting for us will take on the case without the involvement

:41:00. > :41:05.Now, clearly none of this is going to bring my dad back, but it might

:41:06. > :41:11.get us a bit closer to knowing what happened to him on that night.

:41:12. > :41:15.And if you want to share that film you can find it on our programme

:41:16. > :41:17.page - bbc.co.uk/victoria - and after 10 we'll be speaking to

:41:18. > :41:22.London's Cycling Commissioner about this.

:41:23. > :41:30.Thank you for your comments, one said, is it fair, asking is it a

:41:31. > :41:35.fair report asking a reporter whose dad died from an accident, aren't

:41:36. > :41:40.they biassed? Peter said the current accidental label placed on road

:41:41. > :41:47.death is it inappropriate and not fit for reality. All road deaths

:41:48. > :41:52.should be redefined as the limited punishment for death by dangerous

:41:53. > :41:59.driving is inadequate and can create a licence to kill. All road deaths

:42:00. > :42:06.should be initially prosecuted as murder or manslaughter with a life

:42:07. > :42:09.sentence available. Martin sent this message, cyclists should not be on

:42:10. > :42:15.the main roads at all for safety reasons. This comment too three

:42:16. > :42:24.years today, riding to work this a cycle lane, in daylight in a high

:42:25. > :42:29.vis kit I was hit by a taxi and I need a specialist mouse and keyboard

:42:30. > :42:36.at work. The police were disinterested. And Mur said, I have

:42:37. > :42:42.sympathy for the drivers of vehicles who have to crawl behind cyclists,

:42:43. > :42:46.because in Manchester many cyclists choose to avoid the cycle lanes and

:42:47. > :42:53.ride without thought for their own safety on the roads. Thank you for

:42:54. > :42:57.your vows. Still to come: Lewis Hamilton seals his third F1 World

:42:58. > :43:04.Championship after winning in the United States. And in terms of

:43:05. > :43:07.weather, Louise is here, that this horse cane Patricia -- this

:43:08. > :43:16.hurricane Patricia did affect the Grand Prix. It was an incredible

:43:17. > :43:22.story this hurricane. The most intense hurricane ever now in terms

:43:23. > :43:28.of wind strength and mean wind gust over 200mph. It was incredible. Have

:43:29. > :43:36.you seen this footage across parts of the south of Mexico. It arrived

:43:37. > :43:40.around 6 o'clock their time. Although it was a power storm, the

:43:41. > :43:44.winds were concentrated around six or seven miles and in some ways they

:43:45. > :43:51.were luck y. I use that world lightly. No, you don't. I know what

:43:52. > :43:57.you mean. They arrived in a less pop lated area. But some of the energy

:43:58. > :44:01.moved into Texas, if you were following the Grand Prix, it was

:44:02. > :44:05.incredible the scenes for the practice and they were lucky in the

:44:06. > :44:11.race time the dry weather arrived and the drainage is so good in

:44:12. > :44:17.Texas, they're used to spells of heavy rain and it cleared up

:44:18. > :44:24.quickly. But we had reports of tornadoes close to Houston and parts

:44:25. > :44:29.of New Orleans had 220 millimetres of rain fall, this a double their

:44:30. > :44:42.average for the month. So incredible scenes. Here? Quiet sner Yes. Yes

:44:43. > :44:50.windy but nowhere near those wind strengths. We will see a milder feel

:44:51. > :44:55.with the wind coming from the south. But they will bring some rain as low

:44:56. > :45:01.pressure moves in. Today, it is a benign story, a lot of cloud around,

:45:02. > :45:06.this window of finer weather over the south-east. The thicker rain to

:45:07. > :45:11.the north and west will slowly push in through the latter stages of day.

:45:12. > :45:14.We have rain pushing into the far south-west and the wind

:45:15. > :45:19.strengthening and into Northern Ireland by the middle of day. But a

:45:20. > :45:25.good slice of dry weather. That will be the story as we move through the

:45:26. > :45:29.bulk of Scotland, ten or 11 degrees. But look at the rain in Northern

:45:30. > :45:32.Ireland in the middle of afternoon. Clouding over for Wales and the

:45:33. > :45:38.south-west and we will see some rain, but for central and southern a

:45:39. > :45:43.eastern areas drier with temperatures up to 16 degrees. Not

:45:44. > :45:47.bad for this time of year. But the winds will strengthen and the rain

:45:48. > :45:50.will push in from the south-west. Some of it heavy through the night.

:45:51. > :45:56.Particularly across Cornwall and into Wales and it will be sitting

:45:57. > :46:01.there tomorrow. Ahead of it a blanket of cloud. A mild night. We

:46:02. > :46:09.start off tomorrow with a good slice of dry weather to be found to the

:46:10. > :46:16.north and east. Some early morning mist and fog. And still some rain in

:46:17. > :46:21.the south-west. It will move erratically north and east. If

:46:22. > :46:25.you're ahead of main band of rain it is mild with that southerly winds

:46:26. > :46:31.allowing temperatures of up to 18 degrees. But on the the cloud and

:46:32. > :46:34.wind disappointing. By Wednesday, low pressure dictating the weather a

:46:35. > :46:40.little and that front continues to push north and east and it will take

:46:41. > :46:43.the wind and rain with it. But a disappointing day through Scotland

:46:44. > :46:47.and northern England. Further south mild and bright in the afternoon and

:46:48. > :46:52.highs into the mid to high teens again. So plenty of weather this

:46:53. > :46:58.week and more the same time same place tomorrow.

:46:59. > :46:59.Hello. It's Monday. It's just after 10am.

:47:00. > :47:05.Could red and processed meat really be as dangerous to our health

:47:06. > :47:18.Global health experts are expected to say that in an hour's time.

:47:19. > :47:22.We will have the latest from northern Afghanistan where a

:47:23. > :47:28.powerful earthquake lasting 60 seconds. Struck. Tremors were felt

:47:29. > :47:35.in Pakistan and India. We will be live in Karachi. Calls for all cases

:47:36. > :47:39.where a cyclist is killed by a car to be referred to prosecutors. After

:47:40. > :47:48.Germaine Greer said transgender women aren't really women, the star

:47:49. > :47:50.of Boy Meets Girl tells us her views are outdated, outmoded and

:47:51. > :47:54.outrageous. In sport, Lewis Hamilton is the

:47:55. > :47:58.Formula One world champion for 2015. He is now only the second ever

:47:59. > :48:10.British driver to win three world titles. Back with you in a minute.

:48:11. > :48:14.The Government's facing a possible defeat

:48:15. > :48:29.Critics say that three million families could lose an average

:48:30. > :48:31.of ?1,000 a year because of the changes.

:48:32. > :48:34.It will all be voted on later by the House of Lords.

:48:35. > :48:37.We spoke to Janette Davey, a mum of six, who will be affected

:48:38. > :48:43.I already work every physical hour I can. No one said this is not going

:48:44. > :48:48.to be tough. All I would say is, it is much harder, if we don't do

:48:49. > :48:50.anything, if we allow the deficit to get out of control and if borrow too

:48:51. > :49:04.much and tax too much. Four people have been killed in an

:49:05. > :49:09.earthquake that struck in Northern Pakistan. The quake was felt in

:49:10. > :49:15.India and Pakistan. More on that after this news bulletin.

:49:16. > :49:19.100,000 spaces will be created at migrant reception centres in Greece

:49:20. > :49:22.and Slovenia after an agreement in Brussels. Hundreds of police are

:49:23. > :49:26.being sent to the country to secure their borders.

:49:27. > :49:29.We will find out this morning whether some meats should be classed

:49:30. > :49:31.as something that can give you cancer. The World Health

:49:32. > :49:35.Organization has been reviewing evidence on whether red and

:49:36. > :49:39.processed meats increase the risk of the diseases. Meat producers are

:49:40. > :49:48.already critical. Official UK advice is that red meat can be part of a

:49:49. > :49:50.healthy diet. The former Director of Public Prosecutions tells this

:49:51. > :49:57.programme there needs to be a re-think of how the way cyclists

:49:58. > :50:00.death cases are decided. Sir Keir Starmer says the Crown Prosecution

:50:01. > :50:05.Service should make that decision that. I think there is a very strong

:50:06. > :50:08.case for saying where there is a death involved f it is serious

:50:09. > :50:13.enough to have had a criminal investigation then it really ought

:50:14. > :50:19.to go off to the CPS for a final decision.

:50:20. > :50:24.We will talk more about those views between 10.30am and 11am. Time for

:50:25. > :50:30.the sport and here is Ore. Let's talk about Lewis Hamilton. Why don't

:50:31. > :50:36.we? He is moving into Formula One history. He is the second British

:50:37. > :50:41.driver to win three world titles. 2008 was his first, in 2014 Hamilton

:50:42. > :50:44.made it two and the Mercedes driver secured back-to-back titles after

:50:45. > :50:50.win ago thrilling US Grand Prix in Texas of the let's talk to Britain's

:50:51. > :50:54.1992 world champion, Nigel Mansell. Good morning to you, Nigel Good

:50:55. > :50:58.morning to you, how are you? We are very well. Let's talk about Lewis

:50:59. > :51:02.because before this season, he was a great. Now this guy is one of the

:51:03. > :51:07.greats, right? Yeah. I just think it is absolutely brilliant. No one can

:51:08. > :51:10.take away the achievement of winning three World Championships, but the

:51:11. > :51:15.US Grand Prix was the greatest winner of all yesterday. What

:51:16. > :51:19.sensational entertainment everybody had from accidents to crashes, to

:51:20. > :51:23.safety car, to obviously Lewis getting the most fantastic start off

:51:24. > :51:26.the grid and being in control pret why much all the way through the

:51:27. > :51:30.race. The race yesterday had everything for everybody. And this

:51:31. > :51:35.is really an example of what kind of a driver he is because he is the

:51:36. > :51:38.fans rifr, he is a drivers' driver and people talk about the car he

:51:39. > :51:42.has, he is ahead of the game when it comes to his competitors, but he

:51:43. > :51:46.really shows when it comes to the crunch, that he is one of the best

:51:47. > :51:50.drivers on the grid and as he showed in the last three world titles, the

:51:51. > :51:54.best driver? The thing is in this present era, there is only a couple

:51:55. > :51:58.of teams that can be competitive and obviously Lewis is heading up the

:51:59. > :52:02.Mercedes team with Nico. Nico is the only person who could have won the

:52:03. > :52:06.World Championship from him this year and obviously had the upper

:52:07. > :52:10.hand with Nico and he demonstrated that yesterday with the last stop

:52:11. > :52:15.and new tyres. He put Nico under pressure. It was one small error and

:52:16. > :52:19.all of a sudden, job got done in the lead, win the race, win the World

:52:20. > :52:24.Championship and it is marvellous. So yeah, I mean, I don't see anybody

:52:25. > :52:29.really holding a light to him for 2016. I think Mercedes will still be

:52:30. > :52:33.incredibly dominant. The only team next year that might surprise us is

:52:34. > :52:38.Ferrari, but I mean my goodness me, I think Nico and Lewis between them

:52:39. > :52:42.will be showing everybody the way going into next year. What about

:52:43. > :52:46.that rivalry though, Nigel? Because it has been heated between Lewis and

:52:47. > :52:51.Nico for a couple of seasons now, but yesterday after the race, it was

:52:52. > :52:54.a little bit warm if you like when the two came together. Every driver

:52:55. > :52:58.needs a rivalry to better themselves and it was the case when it comes to

:52:59. > :53:03.Lewis Hamilton? Let's be fair to Nico, he is human. He just lost the

:53:04. > :53:07.race. He could have won it and he could have extended the championship

:53:08. > :53:10.for another race, but the inevitable would have happened anyway and Lewis

:53:11. > :53:14.would have been world champion, but he didn't, he made that small

:53:15. > :53:21.mistake. Lewis has put him under pressure all year and it is going to

:53:22. > :53:25.be an incredible rivalry going into 2016, but Lewis, I feel for myself

:53:26. > :53:29.that he will just get better and better. I said this a couple of

:53:30. > :53:33.years ago and thank you Lewis for proving me right because I think he

:53:34. > :53:36.is enjoying life. He is enjog his racing, you know, and he will just

:53:37. > :53:46.get better. I really feel he'll get better. We can hear how big a fan

:53:47. > :53:49.you are. He gained global fans. Nigel Mansell, for now, thank you

:53:50. > :53:53.very much indeed. Let's wrap up some of the other sport for you.

:53:54. > :53:58.England's cricketers are facing defeat in the second Test Match

:53:59. > :54:04.against Pakistan in Dubai. Chasing an unlikely victory target of 491,

:54:05. > :54:08.they are struggling on 251-#. Pakistan needing just three more

:54:09. > :54:11.wickets to win the match. It looks like England are going to go one

:54:12. > :54:14.down in the series with a match left to play.

:54:15. > :54:21.There were no goals in the Manchester derby yesterday. And

:54:22. > :54:27.Liverpool and Southampton drew 1-1, but there were goals da lower on the

:54:28. > :54:32.South Coast. Spurs thrashed Bournemouth 5-1.

:54:33. > :54:38.There was a hat-trick in the rugby two. Australia beat Argentina at

:54:39. > :54:41.Twickenham yesterday putting them through a fourth World Cup final.

:54:42. > :54:47.They will face New Zealand next Saturday. Disappointment for

:54:48. > :54:52.Argentina and Maradona and for their coach who couldn't really hide his

:54:53. > :54:57.disappointment at the final whistle. The Wallabies go through to the

:54:58. > :55:03.final. They are happy. There is the Argentina coach, he is not happy. We

:55:04. > :55:09.will see if it is Australia or New Zealand could come out on top.

:55:10. > :55:12.Good morning and welcome to the programme, we're on BBC Two and

:55:13. > :55:26.Many of you getting in touch about tax credits. Ben jal minute said,

:55:27. > :55:30."My wife and I are teaching assistants in state primary schools.

:55:31. > :55:33.After taking into account the rise in the personal threshold, our

:55:34. > :55:37.family stand to lose ?2,000 a year with the tax credit cuts. Why is

:55:38. > :55:44.this burden being placed on the shoulders of those two out of ten

:55:45. > :55:48.families on the lowest incomes?" Barbara e-mails to say "It is rich

:55:49. > :55:54.coming from a Conservative MP to say the country can't afford to support

:55:55. > :55:59.the poorest, but can increase the inheritance tax for the wealthy."

:56:00. > :56:06.Andrew tweets, "Me and my wife just want a fair wage and not to have to

:56:07. > :56:09.rely on tax credits. If the cuts go ahead, we will give up work."

:56:10. > :56:11.You are welcome to get in touch. Your contributions to this

:56:12. > :56:13.programme and your expertise Texts will be charged

:56:14. > :56:19.at the standard network rate. You can watch

:56:20. > :56:21.the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or

:56:22. > :56:23.our website bbc.co.uk/victoria You can also subscribe to all

:56:24. > :56:26.our features on the news app, by going to add topics

:56:27. > :56:33.and searching Victoria Derbyshire. Let's get more on the earthquake.

:56:34. > :56:37.Four people have been killed and dozens injured in Pakistan after a

:56:38. > :56:42.strong earthquake hit neighbouring Afghanistan. Tremors have been

:56:43. > :56:54.reported in Delhi, in India. The quake had a magnitude of 7.5. Let's

:56:55. > :56:59.talk to someone who is in Pakistan. Various news agencies were reporting

:57:00. > :57:03.that the epicentre was Pakistan, but I think you can say it was That's

:57:04. > :57:08.what the Afghanistan? US geological survey are saying. That the

:57:09. > :57:13.epicentre was in Afghanistan across the border from Pakistan. There is

:57:14. > :57:23.plenty of damage in Northern Pakistan. It is a mountainous area

:57:24. > :57:29.and the region is what affectedful we have reports of children getting

:57:30. > :57:34.killed on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and houses

:57:35. > :57:38.collapsing, people getting trapped, there are some injuries, but the

:57:39. > :57:45.full-scale is not clear. It will be a while before we know the full

:57:46. > :57:48.extent of the damage. How populated is this mountainous region? Well

:57:49. > :57:55.there, is effectively the entire north of Pakistan. Not just this

:57:56. > :58:01.region, but the northern part of north-west Pakistan. It is a large

:58:02. > :58:06.area. The Prime Minister and army chief have already directed the army

:58:07. > :58:13.to assess the damage and to move if necessary. So obviously it is a

:58:14. > :58:16.fluid situation, but many people are really worried because it reminds

:58:17. > :58:22.them of a massive earthquake ten years ago. We had that anniversary

:58:23. > :58:32.on 8th October and 75,000 people were killed. People are fearful.

:58:33. > :58:36.Local channels are showing pictures of people evacuating buildings.

:58:37. > :58:47.Reports are still trickling in. Thank you.

:58:48. > :58:52.Processed meat is expected to be listed as a cancer causing

:58:53. > :59:03.substance, fresh red meat is expected to be regarded as bad for

:59:04. > :59:07.your health. Dr Clare Knight is the health information manager, we are

:59:08. > :59:12.joined by Shadow second for Food and Rural Affairs. Elizabeth is a mum of

:59:13. > :59:16.one and a nutritionist and her family don't eat processed meat, but

:59:17. > :59:21.eat red meat several times a week and Denis has been a butcher for 50

:59:22. > :59:22.years. 50 years. He is owner of the fantastic sausage factory in Dorset.

:59:23. > :59:30.Welcome all of you. How significant is this change of

:59:31. > :59:33.advice from the World Health Organization going to be? We need to

:59:34. > :59:37.wait and see what the report says. We can't talk about that report

:59:38. > :59:42.until we see it. But the evidence has been building over previous

:59:43. > :59:50.decades around red and processed meat a Cancer Research UK's

:59:51. > :59:57.messaging hand been about making sure your diet is healthy and

:59:58. > :00:01.balanced. As someone who was brought up on sausages twice a week,

:00:02. > :00:06.sausages and mash twice a week, is that a lot? The research doesn't

:00:07. > :00:12.point to a clear threshold if you like where the level is risky above

:00:13. > :00:16.and safe below, but the Government have set recommendation if you're

:00:17. > :00:25.eating around about 90 grams of red or processed meat What is that? It

:00:26. > :00:30.is about sausages, a couple of sausages that's 60 grams. A day? Are

:00:31. > :00:35.you saying that's all right? If you eat a lot, cut down to 70 grams,

:00:36. > :00:42.that's a few pieces of bacon or a couple of sausages. So there is less

:00:43. > :00:48.risk then. If you have the odd bacon sandwich and sausage and eat red or

:00:49. > :00:55.processed meat infrequently, it is unlikely to do much to your risk of

:00:56. > :01:00.cancer, but if if you are worried about it, eat less. They are

:01:01. > :01:03.expected to put this in the same category as cigarettes? There is an

:01:04. > :01:08.important distinction between the way that organisations which is part

:01:09. > :01:11.of the World Health Organization look at cancer make their

:01:12. > :01:16.classification. They look at whether or not the evidence is strong enough

:01:17. > :01:20.to link something to cancer. So that doesn't necessarily, they don't talk

:01:21. > :01:23.about how many cancers that causes. So we know that the evidence is

:01:24. > :01:28.fairly strong around red and processed meat. We think that it

:01:29. > :01:34.probably causes around about 8,000 cancers a year in the UK.

:01:35. > :01:39.Cigarettes... Bowel cancers. Cigarettes we know cause 65,000

:01:40. > :01:43.cases of cancer a year and kills up to two in three long-term smokers of

:01:44. > :01:47.the it is a different level of risk. The risk is higher with smoking.

:01:48. > :01:49.Denis, hello, thank you for coming on the programme. How often do you

:01:50. > :02:01.eat red meat and processed meat? Most days I would say. I think the

:02:02. > :02:06.Skype line has frozen. Isn't that typical? We will phone you on the

:02:07. > :02:12.phone. What do you make of what we are expecting to hear from the WHO?

:02:13. > :02:17.The important thing is that information is in the public domain

:02:18. > :02:23.so people can make choices. It is not about banning people doing

:02:24. > :02:26.anything or taking action to stop them, but about people making their

:02:27. > :02:31.own choices. We have had that with smoking and we have had that

:02:32. > :02:34.discussion with sugar with Jamie Oliver's Compiegne -- campaign. It

:02:35. > :02:39.is important that people are well informed. There is so much

:02:40. > :02:48.misinformation and conflicting stories in the papers about what is

:02:49. > :02:57.good for you. I think... No it's still frozen. Let's try Elizabeth.

:02:58. > :03:05.If the WHO say this, will it change the way you feed your family? I

:03:06. > :03:11.think lumping red meat with processed meat is problematic.

:03:12. > :03:15.They're separate. One is highly processed with levels of nitrates

:03:16. > :03:21.that can react within the stomach. There is a higher risk of stomach

:03:22. > :03:26.cancer with processed meat. That isn't the same with red meat. So the

:03:27. > :03:33.so-called evidence needs unpacking. It is what you do to the meat that

:03:34. > :03:39.counts. If you char it and burn it and barbecue it, and even if I yo

:03:40. > :03:46.eat it raw there are instances of viruses being transmitted. You have

:03:47. > :03:50.to up pack it and can't lump a natural food stuff with a processed

:03:51. > :03:59.food stuff. Dennis, hello on the phone. Welcome again. How often do

:04:00. > :04:06.you eat red meat? Most days. I eat sausages every day, because I make

:04:07. > :04:13.them and I always have a taste. If if WHO says that too much of this

:04:14. > :04:20.can cause bowel cancer, will you change your habits. Well it is a

:04:21. > :04:24.sweeping statement, I make a premium sausage and we make over a million a

:04:25. > :04:31.year and there are different grades of sausages, you can buy a pound of

:04:32. > :04:35.sausages for 99 pence. Will there be different risks with the different

:04:36. > :04:41.processed foods, will they make this clear or is it a sweeping statement

:04:42. > :04:47.to scare the life out of everyone. Are you expecting evidence to back

:04:48. > :04:53.this up? They will look at all the available evidence, which we have

:04:54. > :04:57.have been basing our messaging on. Later today once the report is

:04:58. > :05:01.announced we will be covering the findings of the report and producing

:05:02. > :05:03.information on our web-site. So check out our blog and web-site for

:05:04. > :05:12.more. There is check out our blog and web-site for

:05:13. > :05:17.more. There is a difference between Ray cheap sausages and the high

:05:18. > :05:22.premium stuff, that is proper meat. The leaked stories about the report

:05:23. > :05:27.are correct, if so they will draw a distinction and come down hard on

:05:28. > :05:32.processed meat, but talking about limiting red meat consumption to the

:05:33. > :05:44.levels we have already heard about. Pit is worth saying that the red

:05:45. > :05:48.meat has a vast array of nutrients. Red meat does offer benefits and it

:05:49. > :05:53.is a good source of protein, but the evidence doesn't suggest it makes a

:05:54. > :05:58.difference how high quality your meat is. It is the chemicals within

:05:59. > :06:03.the meat that create problems when they reach the bowel and are

:06:04. > :06:10.digested. It is not about whether it is cheap or high quality sausages.

:06:11. > :06:15.It is in the meat itself. But the relative risk is not high. .

:06:16. > :06:22.Compared to smoking, absolutely. Thank you. Very much. A couple of

:06:23. > :06:29.meants, this said I'm getting away from bowel cancer, through the bacon

:06:30. > :06:38.away. Up with says if people want to eat red meat let them get on it. One

:06:39. > :06:44.says stay safe and go veggie. And no torture inflicted on animals. Still

:06:45. > :06:53.to come. Four people have been killed in a powerful earthquake in

:06:54. > :06:58.South Asia. And this news, I mentioned a military barracks in

:06:59. > :07:03.Belgium has been attacked. The latest reported by associated press

:07:04. > :07:09.is an attacker tried to crash his car through the gates of an army

:07:10. > :07:13.barracks in Belgium, but fled in the vehicle after shots were fired. This

:07:14. > :07:20.being announced by a government official. The incident occurred

:07:21. > :07:25.south of Brussels. It is the site of one of Belgium's major military

:07:26. > :07:30.barracks. Home to the second commando battalion. The defence

:07:31. > :07:32.cabinet chief said one car tried to get into the barracks, there was one

:07:33. > :07:37.person in the car, he fled. "Outmoded,

:07:38. > :07:39.outdated and outrageous" - that's how the star of hit BBC Two comedy

:07:40. > :07:42.drama Boy Meets Girl has described comments from feminist author

:07:43. > :07:44.Germaine Greer that transgender Germaine Greer believes a man cannot

:07:45. > :07:49.become a woman no matter what surgery they undergo, how they dress

:07:50. > :08:12.or even how society perceives them. One of the most famous fem ips in

:08:13. > :08:16.the world. Germaine Greer's bok The Female Eunuch became a Bible for

:08:17. > :08:24.some feminist and said the way society was set up are pressed women

:08:25. > :08:29.and turned them into eunuchs. It is impossible to castrate a woman. It

:08:30. > :08:33.is only impossible, because it is assumed she has no sex from the

:08:34. > :08:40.outset. Because she is assumed to be a castrated thing from the outset. I

:08:41. > :08:46.didn't castrate women, Freud did. Her book tapped into the mood of

:08:47. > :08:53.time when the liberation movements were encouraging women to burn their

:08:54. > :08:58.bras. Since then she has never been far from the headlines. She appeared

:08:59. > :09:03.on celebrity big brother, only to walk out. But it is her comments

:09:04. > :09:07.about transgender women that pushed her back into the headlines. I'm not

:09:08. > :09:11.saying people should not be allowed to go through that procedure. What

:09:12. > :09:18.I'm saying it doesn't make them a woman. It is an opinion. Not a

:09:19. > :09:26.prohibition. Carry on. If that is what you think it is you want to do.

:09:27. > :09:32.So one lake Caitlin, who has been on the front of magazines and

:09:33. > :09:39.apparently is getting an award for being glamour woman of year, what do

:09:40. > :09:47.you think about that? I think it is misogynist. That plays a big part in

:09:48. > :09:52.this. That a man who goes to these lengths will be a better woman than

:09:53. > :09:58.someone who is born a woman. Are people you would say knellsly born a

:09:59. > :10:06.woman or feeling female, if he feels more female. It seems to me that

:10:07. > :10:11.what was going on there is that he, she, wanted the limelight that the

:10:12. > :10:22.other female members of family were enjoying and has conquered it just

:10:23. > :10:31.like that. Germaine Greer. Although professor Greer has held this view a

:10:32. > :10:39.while, students have launched a petition to get her band. Let's talk

:10:40. > :10:47.to Rebecca Root. She stars in a sit come with a transgender actor in a

:10:48. > :10:56.lead role. I'm a transsexual. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Don't look now, but

:10:57. > :11:02.isn't that Gary bead frl Geordie Shore. It could be his twin. Sorry.

:11:03. > :11:06.Sorry. You were saying something. Leo, there is something I need to

:11:07. > :11:14.tell you. I could tell you later or now. I would rather it will you now.

:11:15. > :11:22.I was born with with a penis. The waiter standing beside her... Hi.

:11:23. > :11:32.Hi. Are you ready to order. I think we might need a minute. Maybe a

:11:33. > :11:37.little bit longer. No problem. Leo stares at Judy who, smiles. Do you

:11:38. > :11:52.want to ask me anything. Just... Nothing too personal. So... You...

:11:53. > :11:59.Yes? You were... You were born in the wrong body? Yes. Yes that's

:12:00. > :12:04.right. I think we had the subtitled version there, but you got the gist.

:12:05. > :12:09.Some of our conversation will be frank and direct and I know it is

:12:10. > :12:14.half term, I have children myself. According to Germaine Greer you

:12:15. > :12:19.aren't a woman? Yes, well she has an opinion and as I think I said

:12:20. > :12:24.before, it is a very out of date opinion. And I would like to see her

:12:25. > :12:30.say that to my face frankly. I didn't think she should. We did ask

:12:31. > :12:35.her to come on the programme. She is travelling and can't. She gave us a

:12:36. > :13:04.statement which has expletives that I will leave out.

:13:05. > :13:09.Why are you laugh something Sorry, that is just, you did say you were

:13:10. > :13:16.going to read the statement, I didn't know what it was going to be.

:13:17. > :13:23.That leaves me absolutely gobsmacked. Beeping gobsmacked in

:13:24. > :13:28.fact. This is something I would associate with the worst of gutter

:13:29. > :13:31.press, not of something of an academic standing, a woman who

:13:32. > :13:39.should know better than Germaine Greer. It is just ridiculous. And

:13:40. > :13:45.to... Is it absurd or is it offensive? It is both. You know,

:13:46. > :13:48.somebody said to me, when this blew up over the weekend, I said I would

:13:49. > :13:54.come on the show, they said, oh, don't give her the oxygen of

:13:55. > :14:03.publicity. The fact is it's... On the one hand it is tempting to

:14:04. > :14:08.ignore her and not to give her a greater platform. But if we didn't

:14:09. > :14:13.stand up to bullies they will continue bullying. So it should be

:14:14. > :14:19.addressed and we will all move on and hopefully a more enlightened

:14:20. > :14:25.society will understand and see her comments in the light that they

:14:26. > :14:31.should be seen in. Which is that they are grossly offensive, quite

:14:32. > :14:39.ludicrous and very out of date and out of line with the current... The

:14:40. > :14:42.current... Way that the transcommunity is, we are having at

:14:43. > :14:46.the moment. Are they as offensive as some of the worst racist comments

:14:47. > :14:54.one might hear or sexist comments that one might whatter? Yes. -- one

:14:55. > :15:03.might hear? Yes. You ask any trans Person and they will say what she

:15:04. > :15:11.has been said is grossly offensive. When she said it is my opinion.

:15:12. > :15:16.People have opinions about race and you know holocaust deniers and

:15:17. > :15:22.they're not give an platform. Those opinions are insane really. She you

:15:23. > :15:28.know as you know has fought against the discrimination of women, do you

:15:29. > :15:31.think she is guilty now of the same kind of discrimination towards

:15:32. > :15:37.transgender women? Yes, I think it is a real shame that she has a voice

:15:38. > :15:43.and she has a certain platform in British society, you know global

:15:44. > :15:53.society actually. And it is a shame she is using that platform in such a

:15:54. > :16:00.negative bigoted derogatory way when she could use it for so much better.

:16:01. > :16:04.This e-mail, Greer is correct in surgery does not change a man into a

:16:05. > :16:07.woman. But there is more than surgery involved here. Surgery is

:16:08. > :16:13.merely the cherry on the icing on the cake. She should spend a week

:16:14. > :16:22.presenting as a man to experience a hint of what is like to live with

:16:23. > :16:27.the incongrewence we have to endure. She is luckily not to have spent

:16:28. > :16:34.decades of her life living with gender conflict.

:16:35. > :16:42.It was horrible. That's a wonderful e-mail. You know, the ultimate

:16:43. > :16:46.surgery is not everybody's destination. You know, there are as

:16:47. > :16:51.many different experiences of being trance as there are trance people

:16:52. > :16:56.and some people choose not to go through ultimate surgery, but for

:16:57. > :17:02.many, they do. Before I made my decision to transition, I mean, I

:17:03. > :17:08.felt I was, I felt I was going mad actually. It was probably the

:17:09. > :17:16.hardest thing to live with for some 30 odd years before I realised I had

:17:17. > :17:23.to do something about it, and I was going to end up six-feet under or in

:17:24. > :17:31.a small urn or I had to transition so it really came down to that. Do I

:17:32. > :17:35.want to live? I felt I wanted to live. Have you experienced

:17:36. > :17:41.discrimination? Yeah. In what form? I have been attacked. I have been

:17:42. > :17:46.beaten up. I have had things thrown at me, bottles, stones, names, and

:17:47. > :17:50.believe me, I know we say sticks and stones break my bones names, but

:17:51. > :17:56.names are just as offensive. Again Germaine Greer says well, women have

:17:57. > :18:07.been called names for decades. You can't equate the two. I'm not saying

:18:08. > :18:13.that, you know, that women don't have a right to have equality, of

:18:14. > :18:17.pay, or representation in society, of course, but we're all human at

:18:18. > :18:20.the end of the day. I am as human as you are, as anybody else in this

:18:21. > :18:26.studio or watching this programme. We are all human. The fact is that

:18:27. > :18:34.you know I suppose I'm very much a glass half full person. I made the

:18:35. > :18:39.decision to live as I just said. It seems that Professor Greer is a

:18:40. > :18:45.negative force. We are all talking about Star Wars and everything at

:18:46. > :18:54.the moment. She is like the worst baddy in your classic panto really.

:18:55. > :19:04.So after I transitioned life just became worth living and I, you know,

:19:05. > :19:08.I would TV to the nature of the benefits of transitioning and the

:19:09. > :19:14.support that you get from the NHS over burden though it is and from a

:19:15. > :19:22.loving family and friends and people who stand by you and perhaps it's

:19:23. > :19:25.that, you know, Professor Greer had difficulties in her life which she

:19:26. > :19:30.is perhaps taking into other areas of her work and I feel sorry for

:19:31. > :19:35.her. More comments. India tweets, "Gender is dictated by the brain,

:19:36. > :19:40.not body parts and Germaine Greer is pre-historic." Another viewer says,

:19:41. > :19:45."Germaine Greer has become jaded about everything. It is time for her

:19:46. > :19:49.to retire from public view." Another viewer says, "Born a man, always a

:19:50. > :19:54.body no much how much you change your body and chuck cash." Another

:19:55. > :19:56.viewer says, "Germaine Greer has proved she is just as ignorant as

:19:57. > :20:03.any sexist." We'll continue to get the latest

:20:04. > :20:07.on that powerful earthquake Reports say

:20:08. > :20:09.at least four people have died. And

:20:10. > :20:11.the woman who had pioneering surgery for spina bifida on her unborn child

:20:12. > :20:18.while it was still in the womb. The Government faces possible

:20:19. > :20:25.defeat in the House of Lords Ministers say the unelected Lords

:20:26. > :20:30.would be over-reaching themselves if they vote down financial

:20:31. > :20:39.measures approved by MPs. Opponents accuse them

:20:40. > :20:41.of trying to force through reforms. A powerful earthquake has

:20:42. > :20:43.struck northern Afghanistan. It's being reported that four people

:20:44. > :20:46.have died in neighbouring Pakistan and the earthquake was felt

:20:47. > :20:48.across northern India. The US geological survey has put

:20:49. > :21:11.the magnitude of the quake at 7.7. Pm

:21:12. > :21:16.Four people have been killed. Let's talk to a seismologist from the

:21:17. > :21:22.United States geological survey earthquake centre. What can you tell

:21:23. > :21:26.us? We have it as a 7.5 around 215 kilometres depth in the Hindu

:21:27. > :21:29.mountains. This is in the north-eastern part of Afghanistan on

:21:30. > :21:34.the border with Pakistan. We have reports of it being felt from

:21:35. > :21:38.Afghanistan all the way to New Delhi in Northern India. Can you put into

:21:39. > :21:46.context for us what 7.5 actually means? Well, it is a pretty big

:21:47. > :21:50.earthquake even for this region. This region typically has smaller

:21:51. > :21:57.earthquakes like threes and fours. This was much bigger. It releases a

:21:58. > :22:00.lot more energy. We're seeing live pictures now from Islamabad which

:22:01. > :22:04.show people who have left buildings in order to get outside. What kind

:22:05. > :22:10.of damage would you expect with an earthquake of this magnitude? In

:22:11. > :22:13.this region, with an earthquake of this magnitude there is the

:22:14. > :22:19.potential for landslides and the shaking itself can cause damage and

:22:20. > :22:22.part of it just depends on the infrastructure of the buildings in

:22:23. > :22:27.this region. Thank you for the moment. Thank you very much for

:22:28. > :22:34.talking to us. There are report that is a building

:22:35. > :22:35.has collapsed in Rawaplindi 20 kilometres from Islamabadment more

:22:36. > :22:40.in the next half an hour. An extra 100,000 spaces will be

:22:41. > :22:42.created at migrant reception centres in Greece and Slovenia

:22:43. > :22:44.after an agreement in Brussels. Hundreds more police are also

:22:45. > :22:47.being sent to the countries to A gunman has tried to crash

:22:48. > :22:52.his car through the gates Belgian prosecutors said several

:22:53. > :22:55.shots were fired as the man tried to enter the

:22:56. > :22:58.compound near the city of Namur. No one was hurt

:22:59. > :23:02.and the man fled the scene. We'll find out later

:23:03. > :23:05.whether meats should be classed as The World Health Organization has

:23:06. > :23:09.been reviewing evidence on whether red

:23:10. > :23:11.and processed meats like sausages Let's catch up with all

:23:12. > :23:24.the sport now and join Ore. Let's bring you up to date with

:23:25. > :23:27.the sporting headlines. Lewis Hamilton is the 2015

:23:28. > :23:31.Formula One World Champion after He's now only the second British

:23:32. > :23:39.driver to win three world titles England's cricketers are staring

:23:40. > :23:48.down the barrel of defeat in Dubai. Set an unlikely 491 to win the

:23:49. > :23:54.second Test against Pakistan. Lose and England go 1-0 down in

:23:55. > :23:58.the series with one match to play. Spurs striker Harry Kane got back

:23:59. > :24:01.amongst the goals in some style with a hat-trick

:24:02. > :24:03.against Bournemouth. The England forward had only scored

:24:04. > :24:05.once in the Premier League this season, before playing a big hand

:24:06. > :24:17.in Tottenham's 5-1 win on the Australia are into a fourth Rugby

:24:18. > :24:22.World Cup final. They will take on New Zealand. Losing out on a maiden

:24:23. > :24:29.final was too much for the Argentina coach who couldn't hide his emotions

:24:30. > :24:34.at the final whistle. A song by Madonna and the soundtrack by Evita

:24:35. > :24:51.comes to mind! OK, enough! Thank you, Ore.

:24:52. > :24:54.The way cycling deaths are treated by police and prosecutors may need

:24:55. > :24:56.to change, the former Director of Public Prosecutions has told

:24:57. > :24:59.Sir Keir Starmer says there's a very strong case for

:25:00. > :25:02.the CPS to make the final decision on whether to prosecute in cases

:25:03. > :25:06.113 cyclists died in accidents in 2014 - that's a figure

:25:07. > :25:09.which has remained relatively steady over the last few years.

:25:10. > :25:11.But a leading cycling charity tells us they've seen dozens of cases

:25:12. > :25:18.where the families of cyclists who die on our roads feel let down

:25:19. > :25:21.So are cyclists being properly protected by the police,

:25:22. > :25:33.Anna Tatton-Brown, a BBC journalist who works

:25:34. > :25:37.Her Dad died after he was knocked off his bike

:25:38. > :25:39.The film contains some distressing images.

:25:40. > :25:43.I'm Anna, and last year my dad died on his bike here in Central London.

:25:44. > :25:45.I'm going to take a look at whether the families

:25:46. > :25:48.of cyclists who die on our roads are let down by the police,

:25:49. > :25:53.My dad was cycling home this way, up this Central London road,

:25:54. > :25:55.when he was knocked off his bike, right there.

:25:56. > :25:57.He was in hospital, in a coma for three weeks,

:25:58. > :26:01.At the inquest into my father's death, the driver

:26:02. > :26:06.She said it was like something falling from the sky.

:26:07. > :26:11.Afterwards, the coroner's verdict was that

:26:12. > :26:14.Society obviously depends on families joining together.

:26:15. > :26:19.Here's my dad, Mick Mason, in happier times at my wedding.

:26:20. > :26:26.He was a gentle, unassuming Geordie, who often had a twinkle in his eye.

:26:27. > :26:29.My family and I had questions about how the police were investigating

:26:30. > :26:35.Potential witnesses weren't chased as we would have liked, and they

:26:36. > :26:40.didn't appear to be think about what we were going through as a family.

:26:41. > :26:42.One officer even asked us if he wondered whether my dad might

:26:43. > :26:51.A leading cycling charity who have helped me told us they have seen

:26:52. > :26:55.dozens of cases like my dad's over the last few years.

:26:56. > :26:58.They said the families of cyclists who die in road accidents often feel

:26:59. > :27:01.disappointed with the way the cases have been dealt with by police,

:27:02. > :27:08.One police chief defended the way officers handle cycling

:27:09. > :27:15.deaths, but admitted she wouldn't cycle regularly in London.

:27:16. > :27:18.Would I feel safe as a commuter in London? No, I wouldn't.

:27:19. > :27:22.I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that.

:27:23. > :27:24.Keir Starmer is the former Director of Public Prosecutions,

:27:25. > :27:27.and used to make decisions on whether cases passed to him by the

:27:28. > :27:32.He said that system might need to change.

:27:33. > :27:35.I think there's a very strong case for saying where there's a death

:27:36. > :27:39.involved, if it's serious enough to have had a criminal investigation,

:27:40. > :27:45.then it really ought to go off to the CPS for a final decision.

:27:46. > :27:47.Normally, the police investigate a crime and

:27:48. > :27:50.then decide whether to pass it to prosecutors at the CPS, so what he's

:27:51. > :27:58.I really wanted to talk to the Metropolitan Police

:27:59. > :28:01.about my dad's case, but they sent me a statement instead.

:28:02. > :28:04.We followed all available lines of inquiry in this case.

:28:05. > :28:06.Mr Mason's family has already received is an apology

:28:07. > :28:10.and an explanation for the miscommunication.

:28:11. > :28:16.It is wrong, however, to suggest that the investigators

:28:17. > :28:20.directly inferred or suggested that Mr Mason was in some way responsible

:28:21. > :28:25.My family's experiences aren't unique,

:28:26. > :28:28.and I wonder whether the problem might be a kind of institutional

:28:29. > :28:34.Too often the starting point seems to be whether the cyclist could

:28:35. > :28:40.My family and I still want to know what happened to my dad

:28:41. > :28:43.on that street behind me, and the police aren't taking his case

:28:44. > :28:46.any further, so the only option left to us is a private prosecution.

:28:47. > :28:49.Lawyers acting for us will take on the case without the involvement

:28:50. > :28:54.Now, clearly none of this is going to bring my dad back, but it might

:28:55. > :29:02.get us a bit closer to knowing what happened to him on that night.

:29:03. > :29:05.Let's talk to Julian Hunt, a former crown prosecutor who defends and

:29:06. > :29:07.prosecutes in road traffic cases, Andrew Gilligan, London's Cycling

:29:08. > :29:16.Commissioner, Rhia Favero, from the national cycling charity, the CTC.

:29:17. > :29:25.Jaulian Hunt the complaint is not muff motorists are prosecuted when a

:29:26. > :29:32.cyclist dies in a RTA? The real answer is trying to make roads safer

:29:33. > :29:37.rather thab using the blunt instrument of the justice system.

:29:38. > :29:42.More 20mph zones and more segregated lanes for cyclists. Andrew, is that

:29:43. > :29:49.enough for you a more holistic view or if a relative of yours had an

:29:50. > :29:53.killed in an RTA cycling to or from work, would you want justice? I was

:29:54. > :29:58.disturbed by what That police officer said in your film. It is not

:29:59. > :30:07.really true, cycling in London is safer than it used to be, in 198990

:30:08. > :30:10.million cycle journeys 33 ending in death. We have got two problems with

:30:11. > :30:14.safety. We have got actual safety where the story is really good in

:30:15. > :30:17.London anyway, and we have got perceived safety where people don't

:30:18. > :30:21.believe the figures or they don't know about them and don't think it

:30:22. > :30:26.is safe and comments from the police... The chief constables said

:30:27. > :30:30.they wouldn't cycle in London? I have a problem with that. There is

:30:31. > :30:35.an implication what she was saying that actually in some cases the

:30:36. > :30:39.cyclists are to blame for their own deaths by doing something she thinks

:30:40. > :30:45.is dangerous and that may explain as your reporter was told was her

:30:46. > :30:49.father to blame for his own death? That may explain the reasons why the

:30:50. > :30:55.police are reluctant to act in these cases. There are numerous factors

:30:56. > :31:01.that cause most traffic collisions. It can be speed. It can be the type

:31:02. > :31:06.of vehicles involved, it is not normally simply a case of one person

:31:07. > :31:10.driving badly. Most people would acknowledge that, you know, any

:31:11. > :31:16.collision is not necessarily a very simple event. It can be complex, and

:31:17. > :31:22.therefore the police need to investigate thoroughly and the issue

:31:23. > :31:26.that has been brought forward in Anna's film that doesn't always seem

:31:27. > :31:29.to happen? I can't comment on the individual cases themselves, but we

:31:30. > :31:33.have always got to remember the context which is that in this

:31:34. > :31:38.country, we do have some of the safest roads in the world. I think

:31:39. > :31:44.there were 1700 road deaths last year. Which is course is 1700 too

:31:45. > :31:48.many, but it is a low number. 100 cyclist in the UK are killed per

:31:49. > :31:52.year. Again, a number which is too large, but we are getting there. And

:31:53. > :31:56.as we embed cycling culture into this country and the number of

:31:57. > :32:01.people cycling is growing every year, we are going to reach a

:32:02. > :32:04.critical stage where we become like the Netherlands and Scandinavia. Do

:32:05. > :32:11.you think that's going to happen, Maria?

:32:12. > :32:19.We need better infrastructure and better enforcement. We seen a 37%

:32:20. > :32:24.reduction in roads police numbers since about 2002. Over all police

:32:25. > :32:28.numbers have only gone down by 4%. So they're taking the brunt of cuts

:32:29. > :32:33.and the police force are going to face more cuts and the roads police

:32:34. > :32:40.continue take more. So we need a holistic approach. What about those

:32:41. > :32:46.wondering about the crying baby, we are going to meet a one-year-old!

:32:47. > :32:51.The people you meet through your charity, do you believe that there

:32:52. > :32:57.is an inherent bias against the families of cyclists who are killed

:32:58. > :32:59.on our roads? There is, we see a bias throughout the whole criminal

:33:00. > :33:04.justice system, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and the

:33:05. > :33:12.courts against cyclists, we see assumptions made about cyclists that

:33:13. > :33:17.they were not wearing ing a helmet or were on a dual carriageway. Do

:33:18. > :33:26.you come across that there is maybe, it is important to way a helmet and

:33:27. > :33:29.high vis, but there is too much emphasis on that Yes, part of answer

:33:30. > :33:33.is building the infrastructure and that is what we are doing in London

:33:34. > :33:39.and part of reason we have had a better performance on cyclists than

:33:40. > :33:45.the rest of country, dykeling deaths are -- cycling deaths are almost

:33:46. > :33:50.flat and we are putting in more cycle lanes that will be open in a

:33:51. > :33:53.few months. Those have caused controversy with our opponents, but

:33:54. > :34:00.they are about making people safer on the roads. Do you think the

:34:01. > :34:04.authorities let too much bad driving go unpunished? Yes, I think there

:34:05. > :34:09.are not enough prosecutions and I think that that, it is only part of

:34:10. > :34:12.answer, I'm clear that infrastructure is a bigger part and

:34:13. > :34:18.making junctions in particular safer, that is where most cyclists

:34:19. > :34:21.get killed and things like reducing the danger from heavy lorry and

:34:22. > :34:25.making them fit extra safety devices. Another reason why the

:34:26. > :34:28.death rate here is coming down. There is a lot the police and

:34:29. > :34:37.criminal justice system could do that they're not. There is franky

:34:38. > :34:48.again, the little girl we are about to meet. Do you think that is right.

:34:49. > :34:55.The majority of motorists are not great drivers and we need to improve

:34:56. > :35:00.our driving behaviour. That can only be done through three things,

:35:01. > :35:06.infrastructure, educating drivers, so they improve particularly after

:35:07. > :35:15.an offence and better enforcement so people are prosecuted and sentenced.

:35:16. > :35:20.Thank you very much. More now on the earthquake which has struck Northern

:35:21. > :35:25.Afghanistan. We are hearing from the Reuters news agency that five people

:35:26. > :35:32.have been killed and 55 injured. This is according to the head of a

:35:33. > :35:39.provincial hospital. The head of that hospital has been telling

:35:40. > :35:48.Reuters this earthquake which we are told is 7.5 magnitude has killed

:35:49. > :35:54.five people. And there are pictures from Pakistan state TV.

:35:55. > :35:57.Gina Lavis was 20 weeks pregnant when her baby was diagnosed with

:35:58. > :35:59.spina bifida which can lead to babies being born

:36:00. > :36:01.with learning difficulties and paralysis of the lower limbs.

:36:02. > :36:03.A month later she underwent a ground-breaking operation,

:36:04. > :36:06.the first of its kind on the NHS, where the exposed spine

:36:07. > :36:09.of her unborn child was corrected while it was still in the womb.

:36:10. > :36:11.The surgery was a success and Frankie celebrated her first

:36:12. > :36:22.Here's a little bit more information about spina bifida.

:36:23. > :36:26.A section of the spinal column doesn't form properly.

:36:27. > :36:30.The spinal cord is exposed through a gap in the skin to toxic

:36:31. > :36:38.The severity varies, but it can lead to serious disability

:36:39. > :36:45.Gina Lavis had to fly to Belgium to receive

:36:46. > :36:49.the ground-breaking surgery by Professor Jan Duprest and his team.

:36:50. > :36:52.A year after Frankie was born, he came to the UK recently to see

:36:53. > :37:04.Frankie is fast approaching her first birthday,

:37:05. > :37:06.but before the celebrations, there's another big event -

:37:07. > :37:14.an appointment with the doctor who may have changed her life.

:37:15. > :37:19.It will be nice to see him after the surgery last year,

:37:20. > :37:24.but it's a bit nerve-racking as well to think what he might say

:37:25. > :37:27.how well she is doing, or how well he doesn't think she is doing.

:37:28. > :37:34.It is, yeah, I think she's changed a bit.

:37:35. > :37:46.First Professor Duprest tickles Frankie's feet.

:37:47. > :37:54.Next the professor wants to check the muscle tone in her legs.

:37:55. > :37:59.Has she got the strength to push against him?

:38:00. > :38:03.Finally, it was a big operation on a tiny baby, Frankie has been

:38:04. > :38:15.This particular family is of course a case that you really look forward

:38:16. > :38:26.to see with your own eyes how a big a child with a lesion,

:38:27. > :38:29.that is extremely high in the spinal column, that this recovers so well

:38:30. > :38:38.He has been impressed with how well Frankie's doing over there.

:38:39. > :38:42.She's got movement, she has got no bowel and bladder

:38:43. > :38:45.problems and she is just growing into a healthy, normal little girl.

:38:46. > :38:52.And viewers in the South West can see more tonight on BBC1 Inside Out

:38:53. > :38:55.at 7.30pm and everywhere else after on the BBC iPlayer.

:38:56. > :39:02.Gina, Dan and Alfie and Frankie are here.

:39:03. > :39:10.You have been so patient Alfie, you're such a good brother! Tell us

:39:11. > :39:14.how your little girl is? She is doing fantastic. As you can see, she

:39:15. > :39:21.is moving around and just full of beans. She has got poor muscle tone

:39:22. > :39:26.in her legs, but apart from that she is normal. Dan when you found there

:39:27. > :39:32.was a possibility of spina bifida, how did you react? I didn't really

:39:33. > :39:38.know a lot about it, when Gina explained a bit about it, at first I

:39:39. > :39:43.was like, being strong for Gina, when I was on my own it was

:39:44. > :39:47.different. It was heartbreaking. We dream of the perfect pregnancy and

:39:48. > :39:51.we wasn't going to have that. What about you Gina? Devastated

:39:52. > :39:56.initially. I probably cried for two days. Because like Dan said, we

:39:57. > :40:05.were, we went in for a scan to see our baby again and given this

:40:06. > :40:11.devastating news that our baby would be disabled. But after a couple of

:40:12. > :40:15.days, I thought, if is that is what it is going to be, get on with it.

:40:16. > :40:18.You were told about the possibility of operation and you have to

:40:19. > :40:27.consider that, this is major surgery and there are risks? Yes. There is

:40:28. > :40:33.risks obviously to me going into premature labour and risks of not

:40:34. > :40:38.coming her with her at all. It is a big risk for the rest of pregnancy.

:40:39. > :40:44.It is a big commitment. A long operation a team of 22 I think? Yes.

:40:45. > :40:51.There were quite a few. And after, I think, you said how did it go and

:40:52. > :40:56.what did they say? They said, we thood do a pit more -- we had to do

:40:57. > :41:01.a bit more work than we expected to do. But they said the operation was

:41:02. > :41:07.a success and Gina will be out in a minute, give her a bit of time. She

:41:08. > :41:12.will come around and then doze off. She looked up and said, I'm really

:41:13. > :41:16.sorry and fell back asleep for a couple of hours. When they come out

:41:17. > :41:22.and tell you it has been a success, it is getting to hear that. Relief.

:41:23. > :41:28.Relief isn't it. Goodness me. Alfie, what do you think of your little

:41:29. > :41:39.sis? Good. She is all right isn't she? She is good. You're a good big

:41:40. > :41:45.brother. He is very helpful. When you met professor Duprest was what

:41:46. > :41:49.that like? That was great, without him and the staff in the UK this

:41:50. > :41:52.wouldn't have happen and we wouldn't be here with this fantastic little

:41:53. > :41:59.girl. Things would have been so different. Thank you for coming on

:42:00. > :42:06.and you have been so patient. Alfie well done. Frankie, thank you.

:42:07. > :42:22.Thanks to all of you who have been getting in touch. Germaine Greer

:42:23. > :42:26.said transgender women were not really women, Denise said how right

:42:27. > :42:32.your guest is, everyone is a person, whatever their sex. Kim said, I

:42:33. > :42:36.agree with Germaine Greer, does you have surgery doesn't make you a

:42:37. > :42:40.woman. Claire said there are always bullies, it is time to respect all

:42:41. > :42:48.individuals for their own choices. Treat others as you would wish to be

:42:49. > :42:52.treated. What respect I may have had for Germaine Greer is lost. Her

:42:53. > :42:56.comments are shameful and disrespectful. Sally said thank you

:42:57. > :43:01.for airing this topic, I have a God child who has been considering this

:43:02. > :43:07.and has been involved with her thought processes and I have been a

:43:08. > :43:12.nurse for 35 years and trained at St Thomas's hospital where it was

:43:13. > :43:21.pioneered and Miss Greer should be ashamed of herself. On cycle deaths,

:43:22. > :43:27.one said I'm fed up with cyclists breaking the highway code, as a

:43:28. > :43:32.pedestrian, I have been hit twice. And they should be fined for cycling

:43:33. > :43:41.on the pavement. Sophie said, as a witness to a cyclist being killed by

:43:42. > :43:47.a lorry, it affected me hugely and I now fear for cyclists. Thank you for

:43:48. > :43:52.all those. If you want to watch our films, go to our programme page and

:43:53. > :43:58.find the full interview with Rebecca Root and the conversation about tax

:43:59. > :44:01.credits. Have a good day. We are back tomorrow at 9.15.