27/10/2015

:00:13. > :00:13.Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:14. > :00:18.A double defeat for the Government in the Lords last night on cuts to

:00:19. > :00:20.tax credits, and anger among ministers about an unelected chamber

:00:21. > :00:31.Unelected Labour and Liberal Lords have defeated a financial matter

:00:32. > :00:35.passed by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are

:00:36. > :00:36.clear that this raises constitutional issues that need to

:00:37. > :00:39.be dealt with. We'll explain exactly what

:00:40. > :00:41.the votes last night is it right that

:00:42. > :00:49.an unelected bunch of Lords can vote Or are they doing exactly what you'd

:00:50. > :00:52.want from the second chamber Plus - a controversial legal

:00:53. > :00:55.principle called joint enterprise allows several people to be

:00:56. > :00:57.prosecuted for a crime, regardless This morning the way it's used will

:00:58. > :01:02.be examined in the supreme court. And preparing for the end

:01:03. > :01:05.of the world. We meet

:01:06. > :01:07.the British men who're getting ready to survive any potential disaster

:01:08. > :01:23.this country could face. If there was contagion and some

:01:24. > :01:29.zombie-like creatures came out to try to attack your... I would kill

:01:30. > :01:30.them. How, with a knife or something? With anything, with

:01:31. > :01:46.anything. Hello, welcome to the programme.

:01:47. > :01:53.We're on BBC Two and the BBC News Throughout the programme we'll bring

:01:54. > :02:13.you the latest breaking news and developing stories - including

:02:14. > :02:16.the latest figures which show how They're due out in

:02:17. > :02:19.around 15 minutes. Plus - as always we're

:02:20. > :02:21.keen to hear from you. And of course you can watch

:02:22. > :02:24.the programme online wherever you are - via the BBC news app or

:02:25. > :02:27.our website bbc.co.uk/victoria. And you can also subscribe to all

:02:28. > :02:30.our features on the news app, by going to 'add topics' and

:02:31. > :02:32.searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'. Labour say the Lords "spoke

:02:33. > :02:35.for the country" last night when they blocked the Government over

:02:36. > :02:37.its proposed cuts to tax credits. It means chancellor George Osborne

:02:38. > :02:40.will now have to rewrite his plans to cut the welfare budget

:02:41. > :02:42.and, potentially, have to find some of the ?4.4

:02:43. > :02:44.billion of savings elsewhere. The Chancellor now says he'll look

:02:45. > :02:47.at how he can ease the impact of his proposed reductions in tax

:02:48. > :02:50.credits on the lowest paid workers. Throughout the programme this

:02:51. > :02:53.morning we're really keen to hear from you to give us a sense

:02:54. > :02:56.of whether you think the Lords has stood up to the Government in order

:02:57. > :03:00.to protect those who'll lose out the most, or if you think the unelected

:03:01. > :03:02.chamber has over-stepped the mark. Traditionally the House of Lords

:03:03. > :03:05.don't block Government financial I want to be able to go home this

:03:06. > :03:13.evening knowing that I have done everything I can do to stop the

:03:14. > :03:16.wrong-headed, ill thought-through It is about, surely,

:03:17. > :03:24.respect for those who strive to do everything we asked of them,

:03:25. > :03:27.and now find themselves punished Do you want people who hitherto have

:03:28. > :03:30.been depending on work and tax credits now to be driven to

:03:31. > :03:45.the loan sharks of this country? I think it is perfectly possible

:03:46. > :03:48.with tweaking it to take more from the upper end of the tax

:03:49. > :03:51.credit scale and less from the lower They were civilised

:03:52. > :03:54.but it was brutal. The Government defeated on

:03:55. > :03:59.its cuts to tax credits not once... My Lords, they have voted contents

:04:00. > :04:05.307, not contents 277, But twice,

:04:06. > :04:19.the plans thrown out by the Lords. My Lords, they have voted

:04:20. > :04:22.contents 289, not contents 272. Unelected Labour and Liberal Lords

:04:23. > :04:26.have defeated a financial matter passed

:04:27. > :04:35.by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are clear

:04:36. > :04:38.that this raises constitutional However,

:04:39. > :04:42.it has happened and now we must I said I would listen, and that

:04:43. > :04:55.is precisely what I intend to do. David Cameron has now ordered a

:04:56. > :04:59.rapid review into the House of Lords relationship with the Commons

:05:00. > :05:00.on financial matters. After 10am we'll explain exactly

:05:01. > :05:03.what those changes mean for you, but now we can speak to the independent

:05:04. > :05:06.crossbench peer Baroness Meacher, who put forward one of the motions

:05:07. > :05:09.in the Lords last night delaying the changes to tax credits

:05:10. > :05:19.and sending them back to Let's talk first about what is most

:05:20. > :05:22.important our audience, which is, as a result of the votes last night,

:05:23. > :05:25.does it mean the lowest paid workers who will be hit hardest by the cuts

:05:26. > :05:30.to tax credits would be hit as hard? My understanding from the

:05:31. > :05:36.Chancellor is that he will now make arrangements for the transition so

:05:37. > :05:41.that hard-pressed families won't lose some tax credits immediately on

:05:42. > :05:45.April the 1st, that these cuts will be phased in, which will just make

:05:46. > :05:49.them a little bit easier to manage for people. But, in the end, the

:05:50. > :05:52.cuts will happen. It is not the job of the House of Lords to tell the

:05:53. > :05:57.Chancellor what to do, he will decide with the elected chamber.

:05:58. > :06:02.But, as a result of the defeats that you inflicted on the Government in

:06:03. > :06:05.those two votes, does that mean he has to immediately the cuts

:06:06. > :06:10.somehow? I think he has to ameliorate the cuts because he can

:06:11. > :06:16.see the feeling in the country is not with him, and I think in the

:06:17. > :06:19.elected house the Conservative backbenchers are also panicking, and

:06:20. > :06:25.I think the Government will lose a vote on Thursday in the elected

:06:26. > :06:28.house. I think the Chancellor knows he has to do something and we have

:06:29. > :06:33.simply held the regulation, we have not approved it, so that gives him

:06:34. > :06:37.time to do what the elected Government and elected house decide

:06:38. > :06:41.should be done, and I think that is a relief to everybody. Your

:06:42. > :06:48.particular amendment was he wanted the Government to go back and look

:06:49. > :06:56.at the impact on the poorest workers. We know that eight out of

:06:57. > :07:00.ten -- two out of ten will be worse off. People with cancer who cannot

:07:01. > :07:04.work full-time, people with a disabled child who needs carers,

:07:05. > :07:08.these are the people with low incomes and the people, as I

:07:09. > :07:12.understand it, that will lose the most and will not have that loss

:07:13. > :07:16.made up by the tax threshold increase, although I support the tax

:07:17. > :07:20.threshold increase, but they will not benefit from those things, the

:07:21. > :07:24.people at the bottom. Those are the people I am most concerned about and

:07:25. > :07:29.I hope the Chancellor will now protect them. We have asked our

:07:30. > :07:33.audience to tell us if they think you and your fellow peers did the

:07:34. > :07:38.right thing, whether it is right for an unelected group of peers to

:07:39. > :07:42.effectively defeat the elected Government, only elected in May, on

:07:43. > :07:46.its manifesto. Ian said, Hallelujah, the House of Lords has

:07:47. > :07:51.done something worthy of note! Maybe it is not a waste of money after

:07:52. > :07:54.all, well done your honour WHO. Alan said, I thought the Lords were

:07:55. > :07:59.a waste of time but I have changed my mind, I am full of admiration for

:08:00. > :08:03.those who stood against oppressive cuts to those less well off in our

:08:04. > :08:07.community. If constitutional powers have been exceeded, then good, maybe

:08:08. > :08:10.we need to look at the role of the Lords.

:08:11. > :08:13.Another says, well done the Lords and ladies who stood for what is

:08:14. > :08:17.right in our society. Despite what some members of our

:08:18. > :08:21.audience thing, which is obviously only a tiny snapshot, you could be

:08:22. > :08:25.in trouble As the Government says it will have a rapid review to

:08:26. > :08:29.determine what sort of relationship the Lords has with the House of

:08:30. > :08:34.Commons. What did you understand by a rapid review? Well, presumably

:08:35. > :08:42.considering our powers. I think it was very courageous, if I may say

:08:43. > :08:44.so, particularly of my colleagues, the crossbenchers, to support my

:08:45. > :08:46.amendment when the threats were already there, the Government

:08:47. > :08:49.threatening to disable the House of Lords, and yet we went through with

:08:50. > :08:56.this motion because we are so concerned about the impact of these

:08:57. > :09:01.deep cuts on very vulnerable people. But the fact is the Government are

:09:02. > :09:07.all-powerful, they can do what they like. But what I hope is they will

:09:08. > :09:11.be honourable and respect the fact that my amendment only asks them to

:09:12. > :09:15.think again and only as them to listen to their elected colleagues

:09:16. > :09:20.in the House of Commons, who will be having a debate and a vote on

:09:21. > :09:25.Thursday, and I anticipate the Government will lose that vote, and

:09:26. > :09:29.that is the important boat and the Government really need to listen to

:09:30. > :09:33.the elected house. Thank you very much for coming on the programme.

:09:34. > :09:39.Get some sleep, I know you have not had much!

:09:40. > :09:42.Still to come in the programme, the latest economic growth figures due

:09:43. > :09:46.out in about five minutes and the markets expect a contraction in the

:09:47. > :09:53.UK economy. In around 40 minutes times

:09:54. > :09:57.the Supreme Court is to review the law of joint enterprise in murder

:09:58. > :09:59.cases, which campaigners claim has As our reporter Jim Reed explains,

:10:00. > :10:03.joint enterprise allows several people to be prosecuted, regardless

:10:04. > :10:06.of the part played by each person. What, girl's man?

:10:07. > :10:08.Yeah, fam? You disrespecting me?

:10:09. > :10:10.Hey, listen, yeah? A Met Police video from a couple

:10:11. > :10:12.of years back. The person with the knife, the girl

:10:13. > :10:20.egging him on, the friend who The answer, of course,

:10:21. > :10:24.could be all three. Joint enterprise is not a law

:10:25. > :10:27.but a legal principle. To be guilty of murder,

:10:28. > :10:30.you don't have to be the one The test is whether a member

:10:31. > :10:37.of a group or gang should be able to foresee that another member

:10:38. > :10:42.might commit serious bodily harm. The jury has found both Gary Dobson

:10:43. > :10:45.and David Norris guilty In a case of Stephen Lawrence,

:10:46. > :10:50.the police could never prove who But, after a long wait,

:10:51. > :11:09.his family got some justice when Gary Dobson and Stephen Norris we

:11:10. > :11:14.given life sentences, both

:11:15. > :11:16.convicted under joint enterprise. It was first used as a deterrent to

:11:17. > :11:20.stop people getting involved It's something police

:11:21. > :11:23.and prosecutors have started to rely on more, especially

:11:24. > :11:25.in complex gang killings. Research out in 2014 found that over

:11:26. > :11:28.the past eight years, at least 1800 people were prosecuted

:11:29. > :11:31.under joint enterprise - more than Last night, Victoria Station was

:11:32. > :11:36.brought to a standstill after The victim was chased into the

:11:37. > :11:45.station and stabbed when he was 12 teenagers have appeared

:11:46. > :11:48.in court in London charged with Take the death of 15-year-old

:11:49. > :11:52.Sofyen Belamouadden at a station in London, the biggest ever

:11:53. > :11:55.prosecution of a gang of a murder. Eight were convicted in total,

:11:56. > :11:57.including a 16-year-old. He was carrying a weapon,

:11:58. > :11:59.but was outside the station Critics say the law is just too

:12:00. > :12:05.blunt and can lead to the wrong Backers say it is often

:12:06. > :12:11.the only way of getting any form of justice in complex cases where

:12:12. > :12:17.gangs might be involved. Let's talk to our legal eagle Clive

:12:18. > :12:33.Coleman. Why is today's hearing so unusual?

:12:34. > :12:36.It comes at a time when there is a huge amount of controversy about

:12:37. > :12:40.joint enterprise, so the Supreme Court and judicial committee of the

:12:41. > :12:42.privy Council, which he is a huge amount of controversy about joint

:12:43. > :12:51.enterprise, so the Supreme Court and judicial committee of the privy

:12:52. > :12:55.Council, which who inflicted the fatal blow, both of whom said they

:12:56. > :13:00.were wrongly convicted as a result of joint enterprise. The controversy

:13:01. > :13:04.at the heart of this, Victoria, is that in this country we don't have

:13:05. > :13:11.first degree, second-degree murder, we just have the murder. When you

:13:12. > :13:14.have a whole group of in a murder, a gang, joint enterprise is an

:13:15. > :13:18.incredibly powerful prosecuting tool that allows the net to be thrown

:13:19. > :13:22.over a wall of them, even though they may have played very, very

:13:23. > :13:27.different parts. As the film illustrated, many people leave the

:13:28. > :13:31.test at the heart of joint enterprise is simply too low. You

:13:32. > :13:34.don't have to prove intent, you simply have to prove that one member

:13:35. > :13:39.of the group could have foreseen that another member of the group

:13:40. > :13:45.might, and I stress the word might, go on either to kill or cause

:13:46. > :13:49.serious bodily harm. Many believe that that means that bit part

:13:50. > :13:54.players, people who are not really players at all, who happened to be

:13:55. > :13:59.at the scene, can be hauled into the prosecution and, as a result,

:14:00. > :14:03.prosecuted for murder and, if convicted, they will be given the

:14:04. > :14:08.mandatory life sentence. Campaigners say they are working with as many as

:14:09. > :14:12.600 people who they claim have been wrongly convicted as a result of

:14:13. > :14:17.joint enterprise murder. Why is today significant? Because these two

:14:18. > :14:21.cases give a very powerful court the opportunity to look at that critical

:14:22. > :14:25.test, and they could change it. They could make it, for instance, that

:14:26. > :14:33.you have to foresee that there is a probability that someone might kill

:14:34. > :14:38.or cause serious bodily harm, rather than merely a possibility. There is

:14:39. > :14:41.a huge amount of interest over this two day hearing and campaigners,

:14:42. > :14:44.people in prison as a result of joint enterprise convictions, and of

:14:45. > :14:48.course the families of victims, will be looking at this hearing very,

:14:49. > :14:53.very closely. We will bring the latest news and

:14:54. > :14:58.sport in a moment, but first, let's talk Dude Janet Cunliffe, whose son

:14:59. > :15:04.was jailed in 2008 when he was 16, for the murder of Gary new love in

:15:05. > :15:07.Mr Newlove died from head injuries after being attacked by

:15:08. > :15:17.What is your issue with joint enterprise concerning your son's

:15:18. > :15:29.case? First of all, Jordan did not take part in the attack. How do you

:15:30. > :15:32.know? The pathologist described the injuries to Mr Newlove as a very

:15:33. > :15:35.hard kick or punch, and Jordan did not have any marks in his hands or

:15:36. > :15:40.feet, and he would have done had he been involved in the violence. We

:15:41. > :15:45.know that Jordan did not pay a part in the attack. Nonetheless he was

:15:46. > :15:49.prosecuted under joint enterprise that he had some kind of foresight

:15:50. > :15:53.that somebody else in the group might attack somebody? At the time

:15:54. > :15:56.of the trial we did not know about joint enterprise, we did not

:15:57. > :16:00.understand how you defend yourself against this kind of charge, and we

:16:01. > :16:03.thought we were defending Jordan against the actual murder, not the

:16:04. > :16:08.fact that he could have possible foresight to murder. Which I find

:16:09. > :16:14.very difficult to get my head around. On the night that this

:16:15. > :16:18.happened, Jordan, he has a very rare eye condition which means that you

:16:19. > :16:23.could not even see what happened, so, to me, how can someone who

:16:24. > :16:26.cannot even see what is happening in front of them then have the

:16:27. > :16:31.foresight to predict what is going to happen and what it will lead to?

:16:32. > :16:38.It is a double injustice, I think, for Jordan.

:16:39. > :16:45.Almost all of those relatives say their loved one didn't do it.

:16:46. > :16:51.I disagree. I go on prison visits and I speak to lots of mums and dads

:16:52. > :17:01.and one of the things a who of them say to me, at least you know your

:17:02. > :17:05.son didn't kill anyone. I get the opposite. I get told that from

:17:06. > :17:09.families whose son, daughter, husband has committed the crime.

:17:10. > :17:13.They say they have more peace because they can forgive their son,

:17:14. > :17:18.daughter, husband and they can get over that and they can rehabilitate

:17:19. > :17:22.that. For someone like us, like my family, you can't rehabilitate

:17:23. > :17:26.someone who hasn't murdered anyone, and, you know, it is really

:17:27. > :17:31.difficult to get your head round that, your child is in prison for

:17:32. > :17:34.murder, even though the trial process itself proved he didn't

:17:35. > :17:39.commit the murder. The wife of Garry Newlove said she believes all ial

:17:40. > :17:41.process itself proved he didn't commit the murder. The wife of Garry

:17:42. > :17:44.Newlove said she believes all those prosecuted at the time "Are as

:17:45. > :17:46.guilty as the person doing the act." Yes, there were five people

:17:47. > :17:49.prosecuted at the time and two were acquitted by a jury. That is almost

:17:50. > :17:54.like saying she doesn't believe in the acquittal. You know, if you are

:17:55. > :17:59.going to believe in justice you have to believe in it in all sides. It

:18:00. > :18:04.has to be fair. What do you hope from this hearing which is scheduled

:18:05. > :18:07.to last for two days? The main thing, because when we talk about

:18:08. > :18:13.600 people in prison who are not guilty of murder, a lot are guilty

:18:14. > :18:17.of a crime. It isn't necessarily murder, and what we want from the

:18:18. > :18:21.Supreme Court is to, for them to sort of put, put the power back in

:18:22. > :18:25.the hands of judge, so if a case comes before them, and they can see

:18:26. > :18:28.that there are different actions done by different people, and they

:18:29. > :18:32.do get found guilty for those actions to put them in prison for

:18:33. > :18:37.the crime they have committed, not for the actual murder. So if you

:18:38. > :18:41.have someone who is at the periphery but, I don't know, they have caused

:18:42. > :18:47.some kind of crime that night, then put them in prison for that crime,

:18:48. > :18:51.not the mandatory life sentence for murder. I don't think juries realise

:18:52. > :18:57.when they find someone guilty they are putting them in prison for life.

:18:58. > :19:00.And I mean Jordan was 15. I didn't know until then we put children in

:19:01. > :19:05.prison for life sentence, I find that shocking as well.

:19:06. > :19:10.Thank you for coming on. A couple of comments from people watching. Mary

:19:11. > :19:14.tweets to say this. Lazy policing, has led to overuse of joint

:19:15. > :19:18.enterprise. Destroying community relations between young people and

:19:19. > :19:21.the police. Kath has said joint enterprise is simple. Convicting

:19:22. > :19:25.innocent people for crimes committed by others.

:19:26. > :19:28.It is callous, unjust and it needs reforming urgently.

:19:29. > :19:35.Thank you for your time today. We will report back of course on the

:19:36. > :19:36.hearing which is scheduled to last for a couple of days.

:19:37. > :19:40.Matthew Etherington was a Premier League footballer with plenty

:19:41. > :19:44.He will tell us in his first tv interview why he

:19:45. > :19:53.And we meet the "preppers" - the Britons fully equipped to

:19:54. > :20:10.Testify Our business reporter is here. What do the figures show? They

:20:11. > :20:14.show the economy is growing at 0ttt 5. That is down on what we saw in

:20:15. > :20:17.the months before. This is the measure between July and September

:20:18. > :20:21.of how quickly the economy is growing. It measures the economy. So

:20:22. > :20:25.which is increasing and getting smaller. So a half of one 1. It

:20:26. > :20:30.doesn't sound like a lot and it is not. The issue and it has been

:20:31. > :20:33.described this morning as stubborn. It does say all you need to know

:20:34. > :20:38.about the state of the economy. Yes it is growing. But not as fast as it

:20:39. > :20:42.was earlier in the year No, and by no means the same growth we want to

:20:43. > :20:46.see. So the issue I suppose that you can take a bit of optimism from is

:20:47. > :20:51.the fact it is going up and not down. Still it is not as good as it

:20:52. > :20:55.has been. Why not? Construction still pretty slow so the

:20:56. > :20:58.construction sector building house, offices, roads still struggling and

:20:59. > :21:02.the manufacturing sector, the things that we make in this country, again

:21:03. > :21:06.still pretty slow, so that is one of the biggest issues, and that is is

:21:07. > :21:09.really reflected because we are not selling as much abroad, because we

:21:10. > :21:12.have seen the well documented problems in Europe, they are still

:21:13. > :21:17.struggling, elsewhere in the world they are not buying as much of our

:21:18. > :21:20.stuff as we would like. It means the construction, manufacturing sectors

:21:21. > :21:23.are struggling. The big question, what does this mean for things like

:21:24. > :21:28.interest rates. All of these things are tied up. It removes the pressure

:21:29. > :21:31.from the Bank of England and the Governor to think about putting up

:21:32. > :21:35.the cost of borrowing, he has more time before that starts going up. As

:21:36. > :21:39.with have talked about. They don't want to raise interest rate, the

:21:40. > :21:43.cost of borrowing for mortgages and credit cards, they don't want do

:21:44. > :21:49.that too soon because it could choke off a economic recovery. Headline

:21:50. > :21:50.figure, 0.5%. It is not great but not as bad as it has been in the

:21:51. > :21:54.past. Thank you. The Government's forced

:21:55. > :21:56.by unelected peers to back down on tax credits - but says nothing

:21:57. > :22:00.is now ruled out in a rapid review The Lords voted to delay cuts to

:22:01. > :22:03.the benefit. But they're being accused

:22:04. > :22:05.of breaking parliamentary convention to 'wreck' a financial programme

:22:06. > :22:18.passed by MPs. Baroness Meacher who put forward one

:22:19. > :22:21.of the motions told us she understands the Chancellor will

:22:22. > :22:26.change the way the cuts are introduced. These cuts will be

:22:27. > :22:30.phased in, which will just make them a bit easier to manage for people,

:22:31. > :22:33.but in the end, the cuts will happen of course, it is not the job of the

:22:34. > :22:35.House of Lords to tell the Chancellor what to do. He will

:22:36. > :22:40.decide with the elected chamber. The Supreme Court is to review

:22:41. > :22:42.the use of the legal principle of joint enterprise, which allows

:22:43. > :22:45.several people to be charged with the same offence, regardless

:22:46. > :22:48.of the part played by each person. Campaigners claim it has led to

:22:49. > :22:50.numerous miscarriages of justice, with hundreds

:22:51. > :22:52.of young men being given mandatory life sentences for crimes in

:22:53. > :22:58.which they had only a minor role. Police are continuing to question a

:22:59. > :23:01.15-year-old boy from County Antrim in connection with last week's cyber

:23:02. > :23:03.attack on the TalkTalk website. Millions

:23:04. > :23:05.of customers have been warned that their personal data, including bank

:23:06. > :23:07.details and email addresses, may Let's catch up with all

:23:08. > :23:26.the sport now. Here is Jess. Hello. This morning we

:23:27. > :23:31.will be delving into the mind of Chelsea 's animated boss Jose

:23:32. > :23:34.Mourinho. He has been an outspoken colourful character, he has given us

:23:35. > :23:38.a few laughs but he is not having the best of times at the moment. He

:23:39. > :23:42.is in trouble again for alleged bad behaviour. He was sent to the stands

:23:43. > :23:47.in Chelsea's 2-1 loss at the weekend for comments he made to the referee

:23:48. > :23:54.and faces a misconducted charge. It is not the first time he has been in

:23:55. > :23:59.trouble this season. He has been fined ?50,000 and been given an

:24:00. > :24:03.extended stadium ban, on the pitch, Chelsea, a team that won the Premier

:24:04. > :24:07.League soen Vincingly last season are 15th. They have had five losses

:24:08. > :24:11.in ten league games and Mourinho thinks he is still the best man for

:24:12. > :24:14.the job. They play Stoke in the League Cup tonight. They have a big

:24:15. > :24:17.game against Liverpool at the weekend but is time running out for

:24:18. > :24:21.the Portuguese to turn the club round? Reports in the media suggest

:24:22. > :24:26.that his job may be in jeopardy, if he doesn't get a result against

:24:27. > :24:28.Liverpool. We will discuss that further at 10am, with football

:24:29. > :24:33.journalist Patrick Barkley. Hopefully I will see you then.

:24:34. > :24:37.Hopefully? I hope so. I definitely will! Thank you. Next our reporter

:24:38. > :24:42.meets the preppers. Next this morning,

:24:43. > :24:44.our reporter Benjamin Zand meets the "preppers" - the men who're

:24:45. > :24:47.fixated on making sure they're fully equipped to survive

:24:48. > :24:51.in the event of a catastrophe. Every possible option is being

:24:52. > :24:54.considered to protect a British hostage being held by Islamic State

:24:55. > :24:56.militants. The world can be a scary place,

:24:57. > :24:58.with the threat of terrorist attacks, fear of war or

:24:59. > :25:04.outbreaks of diseases like Ebola. With the latest figures showing

:25:05. > :25:08.nearly 5000 people infected with the virus, President Obama is now

:25:09. > :25:10.calling it a potential threat to Most of us managed to carry

:25:11. > :25:16.on our daily lives, Instead, they think we need to

:25:17. > :25:26.prepare and plan to make Actually, we should have

:25:27. > :25:33.been doing it years ago. These people, mostly men,

:25:34. > :25:53.are called preppers. I'm calling you because I

:25:54. > :26:09.near the shop, The Prepper Shop, and I just need to figure out what

:26:10. > :26:29.to put in my bag. So, as a man with currently no

:26:30. > :26:37.knowledge, I need everything? So, in a bid to potentially survive

:26:38. > :26:48.the Apocalypse, I'm on my way to learn a bit more

:26:49. > :26:51.about the world of prepping. A kind proper called Roach,

:26:52. > :26:53.also known as Michael, But first I'm heading to the UK's

:26:54. > :26:59.only prepping shop, conveniently called The Prepper Shop, to pick up

:27:00. > :27:02.some supplies and find out It even has a pick up truck with the

:27:03. > :27:09.Confederate flag in dice his window. How you doing, mate?

:27:10. > :27:15.Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming out.

:27:16. > :27:16.No problem. Is this the only prepping shop

:27:17. > :27:18.in the UK? In Europe, we are the only one,

:27:19. > :27:20.still. So, a large proportion

:27:21. > :27:27.of it is just practical stuff. Handcuffs is a bit strange,

:27:28. > :27:29.why would you need handcuffs? I suppose it's more of a case

:27:30. > :27:35.if there is rioting, you are in It seems like knives are an integral

:27:36. > :27:42.part of the prepping experience? If you are in the woods

:27:43. > :27:45.in a survival situation, You have some pretty hefty knives,

:27:46. > :27:49.are you not concerned some people might be using these

:27:50. > :27:50.for ulterior motives? Yeah, I would have thought

:27:51. > :27:58.if somebody was, they are going to buy a ?2.99 kitchen knife or grab

:27:59. > :28:01.something from their kitchen. The law says

:28:02. > :28:03.in order to carry knives like these It is safe to say preppers carrying

:28:04. > :28:10.knives as big as these in public would find it harder to

:28:11. > :28:13.find a reason. I'm going on a bugging out

:28:14. > :28:15.trip with a man called Roach. Bugging out is

:28:16. > :28:20.a scenario has happened and you have It's been compromised or

:28:21. > :28:25.something like that, it's So you've got a bag prepacked,

:28:26. > :28:30.with everything you need, you can disappear off somewhere where people

:28:31. > :28:32.aren't going to find you. Just, like,

:28:33. > :28:35.hibernate until things... Lincoln Miles is the owner

:28:36. > :28:39.of what he calls Europe's only In other words commonly makes money

:28:40. > :28:43.from people worrying Something he's OK with,

:28:44. > :28:49.as he says no differently to owning His shop stocks food, gas masks,

:28:50. > :28:56.clothes in case of nuclear war Probably more for hunting,

:28:57. > :29:00.in the worst case scenario. If there is

:29:01. > :29:02.a complete social breakdown, the laws are gone, you can't eat,

:29:03. > :29:05.you can hunt an animal with it. Do think that is how

:29:06. > :29:08.bad things could get? This is what people are preparing

:29:09. > :29:11.for, you will need to arm yourselves People generally underestimated how

:29:12. > :29:15.easily it would go to pot if something happened, quite how

:29:16. > :29:17.easy social breakdown would occur. People go to extreme lengths

:29:18. > :29:19.of their family is starving Knives and crossbows aren't

:29:20. > :29:23.the only controversial thing On the other side of the room,

:29:24. > :29:30.and tattooed onto his arm, A flight from the American Civil War

:29:31. > :29:33.that some link with racism, It's about relying on yourself,

:29:34. > :29:43.and not relying on someone else, the Government, any other services,

:29:44. > :29:44.your neighbours. Not relying on anyone else to

:29:45. > :29:50.help you out of a scenario. Do think we trust

:29:51. > :29:52.the Government too much? We believe a lot of what we are

:29:53. > :29:57.told and a lot of it is not true. I don't think a lot

:29:58. > :29:59.of it's going to happen. So, yeah,

:30:00. > :30:03.you've got to rely on yourself. On the other side

:30:04. > :30:06.of the shop that day was another As well as being a prepper, Pete

:30:07. > :30:11.works as a motivational life coach in

:30:12. > :30:14.the south of England and he agreed So, I need something

:30:15. > :30:18.that can create a fire. Something that is a container,

:30:19. > :30:21.a steel water bottle. As we were doing so,

:30:22. > :30:24.we got to talking about how he would Right, I'll follow you,

:30:25. > :30:43.wherever is best. There's many different examples

:30:44. > :30:46.of bugging out, in the woods, terra firma, this isn't

:30:47. > :30:48.the only version that I would do. The idea is basically that via

:30:49. > :30:50.canoe, there's going to be less people,

:30:51. > :30:53.via the waterways, there's not going So you are just constantly, like,

:30:54. > :30:56.prepared? You have got your belt on, this is

:30:57. > :31:00.like an everyday thing you have, Yeah, I've got my multitool here.

:31:01. > :31:04.I've got my torch here. Why are you so convinced

:31:05. > :31:07.something bad might happen? I'm not living on a knife edge,

:31:08. > :31:11.waiting for an apocalyptic situation I'm actually enjoying this activity

:31:12. > :31:16.because even if I wasn't a prepper or survivalist, this would

:31:17. > :31:19.be a leisure activity anyway. What exactly made you become

:31:20. > :31:20.a prepper? It was around about the time

:31:21. > :31:23.of the financial crash. Prior to that, about 20 years ago,

:31:24. > :31:27.I got thinking about certain things that were going

:31:28. > :31:29.on, globally, around the world, It's not the usual tool

:31:30. > :31:36.of choice for survival. I have an ex-partner who is

:31:37. > :31:44.the mother of my son. They know what I'm like, they know

:31:45. > :31:52.that I'm a bit of a free spirit. Is your son going to jump

:31:53. > :31:57.on the canoe with you? He is sort of interested in it,

:31:58. > :32:00.because obviously I'm his dad. I've never forced anything on him,

:32:01. > :32:02.I would never force anything or dictate

:32:03. > :32:07.and preach anything to anybody. Is it like something you sit down

:32:08. > :32:12.with in the house, "OK, guys, today on the agenda is how to potentially

:32:13. > :32:15.bug out from the apocalypse?" You can't just disappear

:32:16. > :32:17.with yourself, can you? We do have strategies

:32:18. > :32:21.in place where certain family members can actually meet up

:32:22. > :32:24.and there is a particular location where a certain family member lives,

:32:25. > :32:27.which is in the middle of a farm. We didn't have an apocalypse the

:32:28. > :32:30.other year, when we had the riots. But within three days,

:32:31. > :32:32.major cities all up and down the country were having,

:32:33. > :32:35.whether it was anarchy, whatever you want to call it, or just

:32:36. > :32:38.chancers, there were riots going I had a friend who lived

:32:39. > :32:52.in north-west London and she was trapped in her flat because

:32:53. > :32:55.downstairs was a no-go area where the law

:32:56. > :32:56.enforcement were not going in. There were fires,

:32:57. > :32:58.cars were being set alight and the lower ground floor

:32:59. > :33:01.properties were being broken into. So, with something like that,

:33:02. > :33:03.I would get out of Dodge. It wasn't an apocalypse,

:33:04. > :33:06.but it was a social breakdown. You would actually leave and get

:33:07. > :33:08.in a canoe Because of where I live,

:33:09. > :33:13.I'm quite lucky because I live What would the canoe do

:33:14. > :33:15.in that situation? What would the canoe do

:33:16. > :33:18.in a riot situation? It would get me to a location,

:33:19. > :33:26.it's a form of transit. You would kind of disappear to

:33:27. > :33:29.a riverbed, an island somewhere? Under the dark, low light tends

:33:30. > :33:33.to be better, as with any activity Right, guys, you're going to

:33:34. > :33:40.have to excuse me, because I've Good luck out there. What if I had a

:33:41. > :33:53.crossbow right now? You'd better have

:33:54. > :33:59.a good eyesight for the dark! As Pete paddled away

:34:00. > :34:02.into the darkness, I wondered whether he really thought any of

:34:03. > :34:05.this was actually going to happen. And, if it did, whether he truly

:34:06. > :34:09.thought the canoe would save him. I wondered this until my lack

:34:10. > :34:11.of preparation showed Preppers prepare for a huge range

:34:12. > :34:19.of potential disasters, from A zombie apocalypse is even kind

:34:20. > :34:27.of one, if the definition of zombie is someone infected when a

:34:28. > :34:33.pandemic sweeps across the nation. They train

:34:34. > :34:35.by holding bug-out drills, where they test their skills by fleeing

:34:36. > :34:37.their homes and trying to escape. And, as a new day began, I was on

:34:38. > :34:42.my way to meet the final person on OK, so Roach has told me to come to

:34:43. > :34:46.this door, Roach is an ex-military man who

:34:47. > :34:52.spent most of his life in the force. He is now retired and runs a YouTube

:34:53. > :34:54.channel. The channel features him with guns,

:34:55. > :34:58.camping out Hidden in his house are stores of

:34:59. > :35:08.food in case of disaster and he keeps a trailer to put on

:35:09. > :35:11.his car with enough supplies to keep But he says being

:35:12. > :35:15.a prepper isn't easy. People have attacked him and set

:35:16. > :35:18.his car alight as a consequence. Despite this, he agreed to show

:35:19. > :35:22.me an example of bugging out. I have my bug-out bag, I'm ready to

:35:23. > :35:25.learn to survive every possibility. The specific scenario we were doing

:35:26. > :35:28.was in the case of contagion, It's not

:35:29. > :35:47.the most inconspicuous tent, is it? Go out in the woods,

:35:48. > :35:59.tell me if you can see it. What this is

:36:00. > :36:02.for me is living simply. So the fact that we are

:36:03. > :36:15.in the woods is by the by. In the space of about 30 minutes we

:36:16. > :36:19.have set up camp, we've got a fire, we've got some food,

:36:20. > :36:22.he's cooking some bangers and mash. Life is good - but we're still

:36:23. > :36:28.in a forest, so it's not that good. If there was contagion,

:36:29. > :36:30.some zombie-like creatures came out I'd kill them.

:36:31. > :36:35.How? With a knife or something? With anything, like this.

:36:36. > :36:43.Would you try and... With anything, with your hands,

:36:44. > :36:48.with a piece of wood. If there were people that came?

:36:49. > :36:51.Yeah. Would that be

:36:52. > :36:53.the first thing you did? Ultimately, you know,

:36:54. > :36:59.there are so many possibles. So we built this place,

:37:00. > :37:09.which is impressive. What do you think this will

:37:10. > :37:18.protect you from? It's not going to protect you

:37:19. > :37:21.from nuclear war, is it, or anything like that?

:37:22. > :37:22.No. If everybody was fleeing

:37:23. > :37:24.from their house, there are probably So how far do you think this could

:37:25. > :37:29.realistically protect somebody? It doesn't matter.

:37:30. > :37:33.Today, right now, it's a safe If there was a pandemic,

:37:34. > :37:38.there aren't any other people here, There might be, though.

:37:39. > :37:41.There might be. And when that there are,

:37:42. > :37:44.we will have to assess those risks So, do you think that, deep

:37:45. > :37:48.down inside, because you have spent so long preparing for it, you kind

:37:49. > :37:51.of hope something is go to happen? I don't want bad things to

:37:52. > :37:56.happen to good people. Because, I suppose,

:37:57. > :38:10.most people don't really think about such consequences

:38:11. > :38:12.and such potential disasters. Yeah. That because I'm interested

:38:13. > :38:20.in everything. Some people would say that

:38:21. > :38:27.you are taking this too far. To a degree,

:38:28. > :38:30.they are absolutely right. What you could do is put every spare

:38:31. > :38:33.penny you've got in the bank You could pay

:38:34. > :38:39.off your mortgage ten years early. Whatever you decide you have to do

:38:40. > :38:43.to prepare for the future, It's hard to say how many preppers

:38:44. > :38:57.there are in the UK, as most are individuals who keep it

:38:58. > :39:01.behind closed doors. For the ones that do go public, like

:39:02. > :39:05.Roach, Pete and Lincoln, they are sometimes criticised and labelled

:39:06. > :39:09.as paranoid, seemingly playing army games to pass the time as they wait

:39:10. > :39:12.for something bad to happen. The preppers find comfort in the

:39:13. > :39:20.idea that they will have some sort of control of the outcome of their

:39:21. > :39:23.lives, no matter the circumstances. But whether all their preparations

:39:24. > :39:26.will give them any sort of advantage in the unlikely event the world

:39:27. > :39:38.falls apart is another question. Peer power -

:39:39. > :39:45.we'll have the latest as the House of Lords forces ministers to back

:39:46. > :39:48.down on tax credits. Who will be the next president

:39:49. > :40:01.of world football? We now know that eight men are

:40:02. > :40:05.competing for the top job at Fifa. The vacancy emerged following Sepp

:40:06. > :40:08.Blatter's suspension amid conspiracy allegations, which he denied.

:40:09. > :40:11.One of the men keen for the job is the president

:40:12. > :40:14.His name is Sheikh Salman bin Ibrahim Al Khalifa.

:40:15. > :40:17.He's been talking exclusively to our sports reporter Richard Conway,

:40:18. > :40:22.Who is this man? He is the most famous man in world football that

:40:23. > :40:25.most people have probably never heard of! And has been in the

:40:26. > :40:31.further two years and wants to be the next president, he thinks he can

:40:32. > :40:35.effect change. The election race has been split wide open for various

:40:36. > :40:38.reasons and he has emerged as probably one of the leading

:40:39. > :40:44.contenders. Does he have a name? His name is Sheik Salman. Bribery

:40:45. > :40:48.allegations, corruption allegations surrounding beaver over the last

:40:49. > :40:56.year. This man have questions over his human rights record. Back in

:40:57. > :40:59.2011 when the Arab Spring, the wave of pro-democracy demonstrations and

:41:00. > :41:03.protests swept across North Africa into the Middle East, it hit

:41:04. > :41:07.Bahrain, people came out onto the streets to demonstrate and protest,

:41:08. > :41:12.but Bahrain instigated a huge crackdown. They squashed the protest

:41:13. > :41:16.very quickly. As part of that, in the aftermath, there have been

:41:17. > :41:20.allegations that Sheik Salman headed a committee which identified

:41:21. > :41:24.footballers and athletes who had taken part in the pro-democracy

:41:25. > :41:29.marchers. I put this to him in my interview and he said very clearly

:41:30. > :41:36.that he had no part to play in it. These are false, nastily lies that

:41:37. > :41:43.have been repeated again and again. The past and the present. And to

:41:44. > :41:50.come with such allegations! Accusations, it is really not just

:41:51. > :41:53.damaging but really hurting -- to come with such accusations. Some

:41:54. > :42:00.people have other agendas on the table. So, Sheik Salman, along with

:42:01. > :42:04.the other presidential candidates, will have to pass and integrity

:42:05. > :42:09.check before being allowed to compete in the selection. What is an

:42:10. > :42:14.integrity check, and will it be enough to convince people that Fifa

:42:15. > :42:17.are turning over a newly? The selection committee is headed by an

:42:18. > :42:20.independent member of the for, a prominent businessmen in Switzerland

:42:21. > :42:25.and Italy. You will examine all of the candidates, there are grand

:42:26. > :42:30.papers, look into their past, and says, are you fit and proper to be

:42:31. > :42:34.the next Fifa President? It is a big job, given some of the allegations

:42:35. > :42:37.we have seen hanging over some of the candidates and that have been

:42:38. > :42:42.happening with beef over the past few months, but that is his job.

:42:43. > :42:47.Sheik Salman's job in the four months until the selection, which is

:42:48. > :42:51.February the 26th next year, is to convince enough of the 209 member

:42:52. > :42:55.associations that he can bring change to the organisation. He says

:42:56. > :42:59.he does not want to lead it in the way Sepp Blatter let Fifa, he wants

:43:00. > :43:03.to be different, a nonexecutive president, which means giving more

:43:04. > :43:08.power was, in his words, to the people who know football, who are

:43:09. > :43:12.professionals. He says that will safeguard Fifa's future.

:43:13. > :43:17.I'm not looking to be an executive president. I think we have to bring

:43:18. > :43:22.the right people in, we have to bring the professionals to do the

:43:23. > :43:35.job. And making the right choices in who you bring. Choosing the general

:43:36. > :43:38.secretary, if we consider a CEO, is an important decision and we have to

:43:39. > :43:42.make sure we choose the right person to handle the day-to-day job.

:43:43. > :43:47.One of the most intriguing things is that he does not want to be paid for

:43:48. > :43:50.this job. He says it was a nonexecutive president, about

:43:51. > :43:55.serving Fifa, serving football. That will come as a surprise to many. He

:43:56. > :43:59.is a rich man, clearly, but as he sees it it is about serving

:44:00. > :44:09.football, not taking. What does he say about the Russia and Qatar world

:44:10. > :44:15.cups, which are booming, with so much controversy over how they were

:44:16. > :44:18.one? 11 of the voters have been suspected, band, or are under

:44:19. > :44:23.investigation. Lots of people being the integrity of the vote is now in

:44:24. > :44:27.doubt, given the numbers involved. Sheik Salman says individuals may be

:44:28. > :44:33.at fault and they would have to be punished, but Russia needs to have

:44:34. > :44:35.that World Cup in 2018, and Qatar in 2022. He is a fierce defender of

:44:36. > :44:44.those world cups. I think Russia is the biggest

:44:45. > :44:58.country in the world. They have invested so much in the game. We are

:44:59. > :45:05.all, I think, the people who are left around here, supportive of

:45:06. > :45:08.Russia 2018. If any development occur, this is something else, but

:45:09. > :45:14.so far from all of the investigation that occurred in the past four, five

:45:15. > :45:21.years, there is nothing that came out. When are we going to just keep

:45:22. > :45:25.on assuming that there is something? If there are wrongdoings

:45:26. > :45:31.by individuals, then I think those individuals have been sanctioned or

:45:32. > :45:34.penalised, but it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean that the World Cup in

:45:35. > :45:40.Russia, there is something wrong with it. I think already Russia has

:45:41. > :45:48.started the stadium, they have started everything. It can get us

:45:49. > :45:53.into big legal battles about if and if, and I don't think we want to go

:45:54. > :45:58.there. Is that the same for Qatar as well? Absolutely. Qatar is not just

:45:59. > :46:03.a country hosting, the whole region is hosting this event. It is

:46:04. > :46:06.important for the region, not just for Qatar itself. We are all looking

:46:07. > :46:12.forward to have an event like this and I think it is right for regions

:46:13. > :46:19.like these to happen events like this.

:46:20. > :46:29.The race are come down to two. A South African has emerged as one of

:46:30. > :46:35.the contenders to. It will be intriguing to see how it plays out.

:46:36. > :46:39.Sepp Blatter has been suspended for 90 days, we should see a ban from

:46:40. > :46:41.Fifa coming down that will end his time in football. He hopes to try

:46:42. > :46:51.and clear his name. Thank you.

:46:52. > :46:56.It feels like the countdown to winter has started, doesn't it, but

:46:57. > :46:58.with warm air floodling up from the made trainian, between this area of

:46:59. > :47:05.low pressure temperatures are picking up. We saw the high Steens

:47:06. > :47:07.-- teens yesterday. You will notice the weather front lurking, that has

:47:08. > :47:12.produced ever I have rain already, more of that to come, as we go

:47:13. > :47:15.through to the middle of the day, that heavy rain pushing up in

:47:16. > :47:19.southern and western parts of Wales too. But still mild among the rain,

:47:20. > :47:23.with temperatures round about the mid teens. Fairly wet day for much

:47:24. > :47:26.of Northern Ireland. The rain staggering slowly into the North

:47:27. > :47:29.East. One of the warm spots though is likely to be across the

:47:30. > :47:36.north-west of Scotland. Here, lovely sunshine to come, but not across

:47:37. > :47:40.eastern Scotland. Here lots of cloud shrouding the hills and fog down

:47:41. > :47:43.eastern England. At lower levels we have had a foggy start to the day

:47:44. > :47:48.with temperatures picking up. There is the sign of the mild air, up

:47:49. > :47:52.round 17 degrees in London, even by early afternoon. We will keep the

:47:53. > :47:56.rain edging further north as the afternoon wears on, but sunny spells

:47:57. > :48:00.breaking through, south-east England, East Anglia, a bit misty

:48:01. > :48:05.over the hills but perhaps parts of North Wales, touching the high teen,

:48:06. > :48:10.north-west Scotland maybe 18-20 and the south-east popping up to 18, 19

:48:11. > :48:13.as well through this afternoon. Feeling pleasantly warm. Mild

:48:14. > :48:17.tonight because we will keep the winds coming from the same

:48:18. > :48:20.direction. A lot of cloud. The rain is change, moving further eastwards

:48:21. > :48:27.as the night wears on. That could allow fog to turn up in Wales, the

:48:28. > :48:30.West Midlands, down in the south-west but double figures.

:48:31. > :48:33.Tomorrow it is eastern Scotland, eastern England that get most of the

:48:34. > :48:37.rain, particularly through the early part of the day. Further west, the

:48:38. > :48:40.better the chance of getting a dry day, with good spells of sunshine

:48:41. > :48:45.coming through and in the sunshine, temperatures at least up into the

:48:46. > :48:48.mid teen, not as high as the warmer spots today. We keep an unsettled

:48:49. > :48:52.theme going through the latter part of the week. Another band of rain

:48:53. > :48:57.pushing from west to east during Thursday. Still on the mild side,

:48:58. > :49:00.let us do it all again on Friday. Some uncertainty about where the

:49:01. > :49:03.heaviest of the rain is likely to be on Friday, but that common theme,

:49:04. > :49:07.temperatures once again getting up to round about the mid teens. I

:49:08. > :49:12.think we can keep that going into the weekend too. This is an early

:49:13. > :49:15.look at the weekend forecast. You see low pressure tending to ease

:49:16. > :49:20.away. The winds coming in from the south, so on the mild side. Many

:49:21. > :49:26.places dry with pleasant spells of sunshine to come as well.

:49:27. > :49:27.Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme

:49:28. > :49:33.A double defeat for the government in the Lords last night on cuts to

:49:34. > :49:35.tax credits, and anger among ministers about an unelected chamber

:49:36. > :49:47.Unelected Labour and liberal Lord's have defeated a financial matter

:49:48. > :49:50.passed by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are

:49:51. > :49:53.clear that this raises constitutional issues that need to

:49:54. > :49:56.We'll explain exactly what the votes last night

:49:57. > :50:01.Is it right that an unelected bunch of Lords can vote

:50:02. > :50:04.Or are they doing exactly what you'd want from the second chamber

:50:05. > :50:07.You've been getting in touch throughout the prog.

:50:08. > :50:10.Les on email says, "The Lords were right to step in.

:50:11. > :50:13.The government may have been elected but they were not elected to pick

:50:14. > :50:17.Once again, a big thank you to the Lords."

:50:18. > :50:19.And Lee says, "I want to see the House of Lords abolished,

:50:20. > :50:26.but I'm glad to see that these callous cuts are to be delayed."

:50:27. > :50:28.We'll be finding out why some members of the Muslim community

:50:29. > :50:31.in Rotherham are boycotting South Yorkshire Police in a row about what

:50:32. > :50:39.they call the "demonisation" of Muslims in the town.

:50:40. > :50:41.Matthew Etherington was a Premier League footballer with plenty of

:50:42. > :50:45.money and a loving family - he will tell us in his first TV interview

:50:46. > :50:59.The rate at which the economy grows has dipped to a

:51:00. > :51:04.UK output was up by 0.5% between July and September, - compared to

:51:05. > :51:10.UK output was up by 0.5% between July and September, compared to

:51:11. > :51:15.That's partly due to the biggest fall in construction in three years.

:51:16. > :51:18.The rest of the news this morning - the Government's been forced

:51:19. > :51:21.by unelected peers to back down on tax credits, but says nothing

:51:22. > :51:24.is now ruled out in a rapid review of the House of Lords.

:51:25. > :51:28.The Lords voted to delay cuts to the benefit.

:51:29. > :51:30.But they're being accused of breaking parliamentary convention

:51:31. > :51:32.to "wreck"' a financial programme passed by MPs.

:51:33. > :51:34.Baroness Meacher, an independent crossbench peer who put forward one

:51:35. > :51:36.motions, told me she understands the Chancellor will change

:51:37. > :51:40.A 15-year-old boy arrested in connection with last week's

:51:41. > :51:43.cyber attack on the TalkTalk website has been released on bail.

:51:44. > :51:45.The teenager had been detained at an address in County Antrim

:51:46. > :51:48.Our correspondent Andy Martin is in Belfast with the latest.

:51:49. > :51:56.What is the latest Andy? He was released this mornlet. He was

:51:57. > :52:00.arrested yesterday afternoon, about 4.20 in what has been described as a

:52:01. > :52:03.joint operation between the Metropolitan Police in London, the

:52:04. > :52:07.Police Service of Northern Ireland, and the National Crime Agency, so it

:52:08. > :52:11.is obviously being taken seriously, however, how serious the attack was

:52:12. > :52:17.in the first place seems somewhat unclear. Last week we were told this

:52:18. > :52:20.was a significant and a sustained attack, however that was downgraded

:52:21. > :52:24.by the company yesterday somewhat, when they said they believed that

:52:25. > :52:29.the attack was smaller than originally thought. They have

:52:30. > :52:34.revealed that credit card details which it is believed were taken as

:52:35. > :52:44.part of this hack were only partial, so some of the numbers would have

:52:45. > :52:48.had Xs on them and Talk Talk insist this was not allowing any money to

:52:49. > :52:51.be withdrawn on its own. The shares fell by 12% in the company

:52:52. > :52:54.The Supreme Court is to review the legal principle

:52:55. > :52:56.of joint enterprise - which allows several people to be charged with

:52:57. > :52:59.the same offence, regardless of the part played by each person.

:53:00. > :53:01.Campaigners claim it has led to numerous miscarriages of justice,

:53:02. > :53:04.with hundreds of young men allegedly being given mandatory life

:53:05. > :53:07.sentences for crimes in which they had only a minor role.

:53:08. > :53:10.Canadian investigators have warned that it may take months to determine

:53:11. > :53:13.what caused the fatal sinking of a whale watching boat close to

:53:14. > :53:16.Five Britons were killed when the ship capsized on Sunday - one

:53:17. > :53:35.Those are the main news stories. Time for the sport now.

:53:36. > :53:37.It's a big week for Jose Mourinho Jess.

:53:38. > :53:40.Can he really be danger of getting the sack?

:53:41. > :53:47.After five defeats, his side, reining champions Chelsea are 15th.

:53:48. > :53:51.No wonder he looks like a man under pressure. That I lost to West Ham at

:53:52. > :53:55.the weekend, and Jose Mourinho was sent to the stands for comments he

:53:56. > :54:01.made to the referee, in what seems to be an increasingly troubled time

:54:02. > :54:05.for the Portuguese boss. Joining me is Patrick Barclay who has written

:54:06. > :54:10.books on Mourinho. I am interested to know what has gone wrong? It

:54:11. > :54:14.started from the first game of the season after the row he had with the

:54:15. > :54:19.team doctor. She left the club. Did that unsettled the ship? I think it

:54:20. > :54:23.was already unsettled. I think basically, you could, if you were

:54:24. > :54:31.really careful, you could see cracks towards the end, in the second half

:54:32. > :54:35.of last season, when he seemed to be actually causing Chelsea more

:54:36. > :54:38.problems than he solved, with his criticisms is of referees that were

:54:39. > :54:41.excessive. You remember the accusation of a campaign against

:54:42. > :54:49.Chelsea and you thought, accuse hob a minute, this is not tactical, that

:54:50. > :54:54.is paranoid. Obviously. They didn't have a good summer, they didn't do

:54:55. > :54:59.much in the transfer market. He went into the season, I think, already

:55:00. > :55:06.raw and on edge and the doctor case was so, I mean it is only my opinion

:55:07. > :55:11.but it is widely shared opinion he was so wrong in that, and so

:55:12. > :55:17.blatantly wrong not to apologise quickly, and put it right, that that

:55:18. > :55:21.can only have made things an awful lot worse, rubbed assault into his

:55:22. > :55:27.own wounds so to speak. If you look at Mourinho's career, he is a man

:55:28. > :55:32.used to success, does he have the experience to deal with losing an

:55:33. > :55:37.out of form players? Only limited. Never actually, yes, you, you know,

:55:38. > :55:44.out of form players never on this scale. Even at Real Madrid, where he

:55:45. > :55:48.fell out with a sort of core of experienced Spanish players, and

:55:49. > :55:52.that went on for a while. They still played for the club, even if they

:55:53. > :56:01.weren't playing for him. This is different. I mean, almost basically

:56:02. > :56:07.from one to 11-Plus substitutes they have all lost form simultaneously.

:56:08. > :56:11.While I think it subpoena pretty silly in football, to blame the

:56:12. > :56:14.manager for everything, it is becoming increasingly silly, in this

:56:15. > :56:23.case there is no other way of doing it. If everybody suddenly drops, so

:56:24. > :56:30.quickly, then it is clearly the manager's fault. You know, he, in

:56:31. > :56:33.his heart must know this, and he is sort of doing it. If everybody

:56:34. > :56:36.suddenly drops, so quickly, then it is clearly the manager's fault. You

:56:37. > :56:39.know, he, in his heart must know this, and he is sort of taking

:56:40. > :56:42.refuge in saying "I am always right, because I am always right, because I

:56:43. > :56:47.am always right." Which is in a toddler wouldn't be -- particularly

:56:48. > :56:51.attractive but in a grown man it is perturbing. Do you think his

:56:52. > :56:59.position is in jeopardy, could he get the sack? I think he could. I

:57:00. > :57:03.think any football manager can, particularly one whose owner Roman

:57:04. > :57:08.Abramovich, although he has appointed him twice and not

:57:09. > :57:12.regretted it, in terms of the trophies won, doesn't really, can't

:57:13. > :57:17.really afford any further embarrassment. I mean, if they beat,

:57:18. > :57:21.I mean they were pretty good with ten men in the second half at West

:57:22. > :57:27.Ham. There was a lot of the old Chelsea spirit there if they can

:57:28. > :57:31.carry it into the game with Liverpool, on Saturday lunchtime,

:57:32. > :57:35.then, you know, we might be able, we might be seeing the beginning of the

:57:36. > :57:39.end of this. Thank you so much. That is all we have time for, I will have

:57:40. > :57:44.to stop you. Sorry for interrupting you. That is all the sport for

:57:45. > :57:48.today. Hello, thank you for joining us this

:57:49. > :57:51.morning, welcome to the programme We're on BBC 2 and the BBC News

:57:52. > :57:55.Channel until 11 this morning. Your contributions to this

:57:56. > :58:08.programme and your expertise Here are some comments. Don said the

:58:09. > :58:13.pre-Budget reports is not April 1st. Is that new comedy? Derek says I,

:58:14. > :58:19.most are not impressed. Derek says by the time he pumped up the canoe

:58:20. > :58:23.he would have been eaten alive. One says what next? And Brenda says,

:58:24. > :58:29.being prepared is never a waste of time. Think of power cuts, being

:58:30. > :58:30.stuck on roads. It is never wrong. If you want to share the film you

:58:31. > :58:41.can find it on the programme page. Your contributions are really

:58:42. > :58:44.welcome, you expertise is key. Texts charged at the standard network

:58:45. > :58:55.rate. So here's what we've learned

:58:56. > :58:57.from last night's Lords vote on tax credits cuts,

:58:58. > :59:00.and some things we haven't learned. The Government's said this morning

:59:01. > :59:02.that changes will be announced in the Autumn Statement,

:59:03. > :59:04.the mini-Budget, There's talk

:59:05. > :59:08.of a constitutional crisis, and the Government's ruling nothing out

:59:09. > :59:11.about what it'll do to the Lords. So will these tax credit

:59:12. > :59:26.changes still happen? David Cameron has ordered a rapid

:59:27. > :59:30.review. So, the key question is of course, will these tax credit

:59:31. > :59:36.changes in their old form still happen. And the answer is, we kind

:59:37. > :59:39.of don't really know yet. Expect to hear more details over the coming

:59:40. > :59:43.months although George Osborne said he would look at helping in the

:59:44. > :59:46.transition period. What will the Government do to the House of Lords

:59:47. > :59:52.once the review is completed? Again, we don't know yet. So what does this

:59:53. > :59:54.mean for George Osborne's chances of being our next Prime Minister when

:59:55. > :59:59.David Cameron stands down. We don't know. There is a lot of things we

:00:00. > :00:03.don't know. But it is not the news Mr Osborne would have wanted and it

:00:04. > :00:06.is good news for his rival for the leadership of the Conservative

:00:07. > :00:07.Party, Boris Johnson. Let us talk to our political correspondent at

:00:08. > :00:11.Westminster. So where does this leave

:00:12. > :00:13.the debate now? Our political correspondent

:00:14. > :00:21.Chris Mason is in Westminster. To borrow a phrase that you were

:00:22. > :00:26.using there, I don't know. I think we need to use that perhaps again

:00:27. > :00:30.and again with a few of these question, there are three main

:00:31. > :00:33.implications, the implication for tax credits so some tweaking will go

:00:34. > :00:39.on in the Autumn Statement in round about a month's time but what kind

:00:40. > :00:44.of tweaking? Could there be a delay, so that this only affects new

:00:45. > :00:49.recipients of tax credits and there is a slow phasing in of the changes

:00:50. > :00:54.for those who are currently recipients, that would mean there

:00:55. > :00:57.wouldn't be letters developing on doormats round Christmas telling

:00:58. > :01:01.millions they would get a big drop in their household income. We don't

:01:02. > :01:05.know that is many the Chancellor is going to do. No doubt that is one

:01:06. > :01:09.thought among others being kicked round in the Treasury. George

:01:10. > :01:13.Osborne is in the House of Commons in the next hour or so, answering

:01:14. > :01:17.Treasury questions, so who knows we might get an insight there into what

:01:18. > :01:21.the Government is planning. Then as you say there is the implication for

:01:22. > :01:26.the House of Lords, and what the Government does with the

:01:27. > :01:30.relationship between the elected House of Commons and the House of

:01:31. > :01:34.Lords. Chris Grayling saying nothing is ruled out. He said nothing is

:01:35. > :01:38.ruled in, so back to that theme about us not knowing what they are

:01:39. > :01:42.going to do. And then the bigger question about what this might mean

:01:43. > :01:47.for who our next Prime Minister might be. It might mean not a great

:01:48. > :01:51.deal because politics moves quickly, and people might quickly forget

:01:52. > :01:56.this. But there is no disputing this has been a rough 24 hours at the end

:01:57. > :01:59.of a rough week, for George Osborne, so enter a politician with blonde

:02:00. > :02:04.hair who you might just have heard of. Here is Boris Johnson, he knows

:02:05. > :02:08.how to do a photo opportunity doing a tug-of-war this morning outside

:02:09. > :02:13.City Hall on the banks of the Thames. This was an event organised

:02:14. > :02:17.by the Royal British Legion ahead of Poppy Day. Boris Johnson reflecting

:02:18. > :02:22.his shoes office shoes weren't appropriate attire for grabbing hold

:02:23. > :02:30.of a bit of rope and trying to win a tug-of-war on grass.

:02:31. > :02:36.Here are his reflections on a tough time for George Osborne on what it

:02:37. > :02:41.means for the Government. I think the House of Lords is in grave

:02:42. > :02:46.danger of pushing its looks, frankly. This is not what they are

:02:47. > :02:49.there to do, they are a revising chamber, not bad to throw out

:02:50. > :02:54.financial bills from the elected House of Commons. And I think the

:02:55. > :03:01.Prime Minister and Chancellor are right to be aggrieved about that.

:03:02. > :03:04.The Chancellor McGeorge has said he is in listening mode, and that is

:03:05. > :03:10.completely right. What everybody wants, what George wants, what we

:03:11. > :03:14.all want is a way of reforming and unfair system in a way that helps

:03:15. > :03:19.the poorest and neediest. Was he in trouble causing mood this

:03:20. > :03:22.morning? No, he wasn't, it was very much the Government line we were

:03:23. > :03:26.hearing from the Mayor of London, setting out, as they see it, the

:03:27. > :03:32.industry is that the unelected House of Lords caused them so much grief

:03:33. > :03:39.last night -- the injustice. There was not any hint, we tried again and

:03:40. > :03:43.again to hand him enough rope, to see if he would say something a

:03:44. > :03:49.little bit spiky about George Osborne. He resisted the temptation.

:03:50. > :03:52.There is a thing! Thank you very much, Chris.

:03:53. > :03:55.Some more comments from you, we wanted to get some fear link from

:03:56. > :03:59.you about whether you thought the Lords did the right thing last

:04:00. > :04:05.night, a tiny snapshot, unscientific but it has never stopped us before!

:04:06. > :04:09.Let's have a look. One viewer says, finally, the House of Lords steps

:04:10. > :04:13.in. The cuts are unacceptable and it is great that Labour and Liberal

:04:14. > :04:18.peers saw some sense. A tweet says, the House of Lords

:04:19. > :04:22.acted correctly and proved that true democracy exists and we should not

:04:23. > :04:27.be bullied by the House of Commons. True democracy, unelected?

:04:28. > :04:31.Interesting. One more for now, what is the point of a second chamber is

:04:32. > :04:37.its sole purpose is to wave through bad Government legislation?

:04:38. > :04:39.Keep those coming in. You can tweet us or send us a message on Facebook

:04:40. > :04:41.or e-mail, and text as well. An investigation is underway

:04:42. > :04:43.in America after a video emerged apparently

:04:44. > :04:47.showing an officer throwing We can show you some

:04:48. > :05:06.of that film now. There is the opposite. That is a

:05:07. > :05:07.female pupil. This is at Spring Valley high school in Columbia,

:05:08. > :05:13.South Carolina. It's thought that this officer was

:05:14. > :05:16.called after He appears to restrain her around

:05:17. > :05:25.the neck, before quickly pulling her Soon after,

:05:26. > :05:28.he appears to throw the pupil The footage has been shared

:05:29. > :05:42.internationally on social media, with the hashtag

:05:43. > :05:44."assault at Spring Valley High" used Much more to come on that, no doubt,

:05:45. > :05:53.on BBC News. In his first TV interview, former

:05:54. > :06:01.Premier League footballer Matthew Etherington will tell us

:06:02. > :06:03.about the devastating effect his gambling addiction had

:06:04. > :06:05.on his life both physically and emotionally and what made him

:06:06. > :06:08.finally seek the help he needed. Some members

:06:09. > :06:10.of the Muslim community in Rotherham have announced a boycott of

:06:11. > :06:14.South Yorkshire Police over what they call the "demonisation"

:06:15. > :06:17.of Muslims in the town. They say since the publication

:06:18. > :06:22.of the Jay report into child sexual exploitation, they've been under

:06:23. > :06:26.what they call "perpetual attack". The Jay report revealed

:06:27. > :06:33.around 1400 children were sexually exploited, predominantly by men

:06:34. > :06:36.of Pakistani heritage, in Muslims say Islamophobia in

:06:37. > :06:51.Rotherham is now at an all-time high and that recent demonstrations

:06:52. > :06:53.by political groups like Britain First mean they're fearful

:06:54. > :06:55.to leave their houses. These pictures we're

:06:56. > :06:58.about to show you were filmed by our reporter last month at a Britain

:06:59. > :07:01.First demonstration in Rotherham. Britain First! Fighting back!

:07:02. > :07:06.Britain First! Fighting back! We, the people of Rotherham who came

:07:07. > :07:09.out when the first Jay Report came out, we demonstrated on behalf

:07:10. > :07:11.of the victims. These guys are milking it

:07:12. > :07:13.because they're Islamophobes. They hate every Muslim, they hate

:07:14. > :07:16.Islam and they use every opportunity WHO ARE YA?

:07:17. > :07:18.WHO ARE YA? Islam will be banned,

:07:19. > :07:20.because Islam is utterly... So, as a consequence,

:07:21. > :07:27.freedom of religion, There should be no freedom of

:07:28. > :07:35.religion, for a religion like that. We can talk now to Muhbeen Hussain,

:07:36. > :07:38.the chair of the British Muslim Youth, who organised the boycott,

:07:39. > :07:48.and to South Yorkshire's Police and I would be grateful, gentlemen, if

:07:49. > :07:52.you would talk to each other. Muhbeen Hussain, tell Alan Billings

:07:53. > :07:57.why you are calling the boycott and what it means in practical terms?

:07:58. > :08:00.Firstly, I want to make it clear the boycott has not just been called by

:08:01. > :08:04.the British Muslim Youth but by and Alliance Party, the brother and

:08:05. > :08:10.community for Alliance, where every single mosque in rubber, and other

:08:11. > :08:16.organisations, have signed up to boycott any engagement with the

:08:17. > :08:21.police. What we are saying is that you -- is not that you boycott

:08:22. > :08:25.services from the police but that because the police have failed in

:08:26. > :08:29.tackling Islamophobia and communicating with our community, we

:08:30. > :08:35.will boycott any engagement with the police. To be clear, the reason is

:08:36. > :08:39.because you say when there are attacks on Muslim people or abuse of

:08:40. > :08:44.Muslim people, the police won't, what? First and foremost, the police

:08:45. > :08:49.pushed a pernicious lie, suggesting they did not make arrests in the

:08:50. > :08:55.grooming scandal because of fears of being called racist and other

:08:56. > :09:00.claims. Sorry, I was well aware that was one of the reasons that it was

:09:01. > :09:04.said the police did not investigate the men of Pakistani heritage for

:09:05. > :09:08.fear of being seen as racist. What are the other pernicious lies, as

:09:09. > :09:12.you describe them? They have come into our meetings and said one thing

:09:13. > :09:15.to our bases at community level, come to our community and recognised

:09:16. > :09:20.we have heightened tensions, but behind closed doors there has been

:09:21. > :09:25.no action taken. We have been told, for example, in one incident we can

:09:26. > :09:30.review CCTV footage. When they go back they say, there is no CCTV

:09:31. > :09:33.footage. These U-turns have been happening. You are unhappy with the

:09:34. > :09:37.way they have been investigating? And having in gauge went. We have

:09:38. > :09:46.been in isolation for the last 14 months, our women cannot go into the

:09:47. > :09:48.street, young people being bullied. 14 demonstrations have taken place,

:09:49. > :09:57.27 separate cases of Islamophobic abuse have been reported to Tell

:09:58. > :10:01.Mama, a Muslim aborting organisation. Are you saying the

:10:02. > :10:07.police are not investigated, is that your main issue? The problem we have

:10:08. > :10:11.is that the police are not putting any prevention schemes and projects

:10:12. > :10:14.in and therefore there is no point having engagement if our engagement

:10:15. > :10:19.and cohesion will not be taken on board. To be clear, what sort of

:10:20. > :10:24.prevention measures do you want to see put in place? Any, at the

:10:25. > :10:28.moment. There is an increase in Islamophobia. Have we spoken to the

:10:29. > :10:32.Muslim community? I don't talk about those people paid by the Council or

:10:33. > :10:43.police officers. What implementation have we done? Have we given young

:10:44. > :10:46.people in schools, people in the town centre, advice on how to report

:10:47. > :10:48.hate crime? The Prime Minister has called on separate reports, we have

:10:49. > :10:51.been campaigning for reporting on what has been done in South

:10:52. > :10:55.Yorkshire to be done to give people confidence in the police system.

:10:56. > :10:58.Frankly, nothing. Alan Billings, a huge lack of confidence in your

:10:59. > :11:04.force in South Yorkshire by the Muslim people in Rotherham. What do

:11:05. > :11:09.you say? IKEA what is being said. It is not by force, I am not the Chief

:11:10. > :11:12.Constable, I am police and crime commissioner so my job is to hold

:11:13. > :11:17.the police to account on behalf of the public. Idea what this section

:11:18. > :11:20.of the public is saying and accept there is something in what they are

:11:21. > :11:23.saying otherwise they would not be what they feel. My problem at the

:11:24. > :11:27.moment is we simply don't know where to go now if they won't talk to us.

:11:28. > :11:39.How do we know what the grievances are and what the complaints are? How

:11:40. > :11:42.come we put them right? It is essential now that we do not

:11:43. > :11:45.disengage but that we engage with this group, which I suspect may be a

:11:46. > :11:48.newly formed group, and that we come together to try to go forward. If we

:11:49. > :11:51.don't do that, all we have is complete negativity and that is

:11:52. > :11:55.exactly what Rotherham does not want, the people of Rotherham are

:11:56. > :11:59.sick and tired of feeling under the cosh all the time, they want to make

:12:00. > :12:03.progress, so I am happy to meet with this group to hear what they have to

:12:04. > :12:07.say to try to get to the bottom of what these grievances are and then

:12:08. > :12:16.to go to the police on their behalf and perhaps ultimately bring them

:12:17. > :12:19.and the police together again, if that is what is needed. We are all

:12:20. > :12:22.about engagement, we have had 14 months of engagement. If you ask a

:12:23. > :12:26.Muslim from Rotherham to walk into any other city in the country, I

:12:27. > :12:30.felt the same when I mention I am a Muslim from Rotherham in Europe, the

:12:31. > :12:33.stereotype of grooming is put on you, this is the feeling in the

:12:34. > :12:39.Muslim community in Rotherham. We want engagement and dialogue but we

:12:40. > :12:42.have boycotted engagement with South Yorkshire Police in Rotherham. We

:12:43. > :12:46.have had no calls from the Chief Constable's office. We will hold a

:12:47. > :12:51.dialogue but this boycott was not just called by myself but the

:12:52. > :12:55.alliances and community. If we can agree on a public meeting with the

:12:56. > :12:58.right stakeholders, we want engagement and insurances that we

:12:59. > :13:02.can be heard and listened to as equal citizens. We have had an

:13:03. > :13:07.unprecedented account of child sexual exploitation, we were the

:13:08. > :13:11.first Muslim organisation in the UK who came out whilst being called

:13:12. > :13:14.rumours, being blamed, having women and children attacked, pitches

:13:15. > :13:19.attacks, we still came out and said, we are against child sexual

:13:20. > :13:22.exploitation and stood with the victims of child sexual

:13:23. > :13:30.exploitation. IKEA what being said there and I am very happy to take up

:13:31. > :13:33.that request that we do now have a meeting and dialogue between myself

:13:34. > :13:37.as Police and Crime Commissioner and this particular group, and see where

:13:38. > :13:41.we can progress from there. If attempts in the past have failed, I

:13:42. > :13:44.am sorry about that, but the only way we will make any progress is by

:13:45. > :13:53.coming together and listening to what each has to say. We need

:13:54. > :13:57.assurances, we need action. For 14 months we have had false promises.

:13:58. > :14:01.If these promises are not false, if we can be provided with the simple

:14:02. > :14:05.things we ask for, which is to be recognised as an ordinarily

:14:06. > :14:09.community feeling the tensions that we do, and to be heard, then of

:14:10. > :14:12.course we can have dialogue, but for that to happen we need the right

:14:13. > :14:15.circumstances, the right stakeholders, and we need the public

:14:16. > :14:20.and community involved from day one because they are the people feeling

:14:21. > :14:24.the pressure. What I am saying to you is that I am ready to meet with

:14:25. > :14:28.you on your terms in any place that you want to name at any time you

:14:29. > :14:32.want a name, because I think that the last thing we want is a

:14:33. > :14:36.breakdown of relationships between us. The real enemy here is not the

:14:37. > :14:40.police and it is not different parts of our community here in South

:14:41. > :14:44.Yorkshire. It is those who come into our community, you mentioned the 14

:14:45. > :14:49.marches and demonstrations, that is what is disrupting towns like

:14:50. > :14:54.Rotherham, Doncaster, Sheffield, and it is that which we all have a

:14:55. > :14:57.vested interest in opposing. If we can come together and talk about

:14:58. > :15:00.where you think the police are letting you down, then I think we

:15:01. > :15:04.have the beginnings of a positive dialogue, and we can make sure there

:15:05. > :15:10.is real, positive action going forward. Will you do that? If we

:15:11. > :15:15.simply put off all communication, how can there be any movement

:15:16. > :15:22.forward? It is impossible. Apologies are not enough. But will you meet

:15:23. > :15:25.Alan Billings? We will speak to the community and the Alliance, the

:15:26. > :15:32.people involved. Dish Muslim youth is an individual stakeholder, over

:15:33. > :15:36.1000 people in one day find a petition saying they had no

:15:37. > :15:41.confidence... You will ask them? We will have a public meeting, we want

:15:42. > :15:44.dialogue but we need people to be held accountable for their failings,

:15:45. > :15:47.for telling us one thing, and we have proved where they have told us

:15:48. > :15:52.one thing in a community meeting and another behind closed doors. Will

:15:53. > :15:56.they be held accountable for those actions and those misconceptions?

:15:57. > :16:00.These blatant lies that they have provided us? I need to know what

:16:01. > :16:09.those issues are and the only way we can do that is by meeting and

:16:10. > :16:11.talking. Thank you both very much for coming on the programme. Alan

:16:12. > :16:13.Billings, Police and Crime Commissioner the South Yorkshire,

:16:14. > :16:14.and Muhbeen Hussain, thank you for your time.

:16:15. > :16:16.Thanks for joining us today - still to come before 11.

:16:17. > :16:33.Break news and it is to do with the family of Mark Duggan, who you will

:16:34. > :16:38.remember whose shootings sparked summer riots in 2011, they have won

:16:39. > :16:41.the right to appeal against an inquest decision he was lawfully

:16:42. > :16:46.killed. Last year an inquest jury concluded while he dinot have a gun

:16:47. > :16:52.in his hand when he was shot dead, -- did not. The police marksman did

:16:53. > :16:56.not behave unlawfully. The Duggan family and lawyers said the

:16:57. > :16:59.conclusions were contradictory. The officer involved said he believed

:17:00. > :17:02.Mark Duggan did have a weapon in his hand when he opened fire and he

:17:03. > :17:06.thought he was going to shoot at the police. The jury said it was more

:17:07. > :17:09.likely he had thrown a gun on to some grass 20 feet away and a weapon

:17:10. > :17:15.was found there. Well, today, a judge in the last minute or so as

:17:16. > :17:16.the Court of Appeal has granted the Duggan family permission to appeal

:17:17. > :17:20.against the inquest decision. Thanks for joining us today -

:17:21. > :17:23.still to come before 11. Matthew Etherington was a Premier

:17:24. > :17:25.League footballer with plenty He will tell us

:17:26. > :17:32.in his first TV interview why he The mystery of the deaf

:17:33. > :17:35.and mute Indian woman who returned home after becoming stranded

:17:36. > :17:37.in Pakistan for 13 years. Now there are questions

:17:38. > :17:48.about who her real family are. The Government's been forced

:17:49. > :17:56.by unelected peers to back down on tax credits, but says nothing is

:17:57. > :17:59.now ruled out in a rapid review The Lords voted to delay cuts to

:18:00. > :18:02.the benefit. But they're being accused

:18:03. > :18:04.of breaking parliamentary convention to "wreck" a financial programme

:18:05. > :18:17.passed by MPs. Poor figures from the building

:18:18. > :18:25.industry contributed to the economy growing more slowly than expected.

:18:26. > :18:28.GDP was up by 0.5% compared to 0.7% in the previous three months, after

:18:29. > :18:29.the biggest fall in construction output in three years.

:18:30. > :18:33.A 15-year-old boy from County Antrim who was arrested in connection with

:18:34. > :18:36.last week's cyber attack on the TalkTalk website has been released

:18:37. > :18:38.Millions of customers were warned their

:18:39. > :18:40.personal details, including bank details and email addresses, could

:18:41. > :18:48.The complex legal question of crime and joint enterprise is up

:18:49. > :18:51.Campaigners claim the joint enterprise principle has led to

:18:52. > :18:54.miscarriages of justice, and that hundreds of young men have been

:18:55. > :19:02.jailed for life for crimes in which they played only a minor role.

:19:03. > :19:05.Canadian investigators have warned that it may take months to determine

:19:06. > :19:08.what caused the fatal sinking of a whale watching boat close to

:19:09. > :19:11.Five Britons were killed when the ship capsized on Sunday - one

:19:12. > :19:24.Those are the main news stories. Time for the sport now.

:19:25. > :19:31.Good morning. Here are your sports headlines. It is a big night for

:19:32. > :19:36.Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho as they take on Stoke in the League

:19:37. > :19:39.Cup. There are reports he job may be in jeopardy if results don't

:19:40. > :19:44.improve. They are currently 150th in the table.

:19:45. > :19:53.-- 15th in the table. One of the candidates to become Fifa's

:19:54. > :19:57.President has denied allegations of serious human rights atrocities in

:19:58. > :20:03.his country. The England cricket coach says he doesn't believe Rashid

:20:04. > :20:09.for the shot that lost the test against Pakistan. Bayliss may make

:20:10. > :20:11.changes and says Butler's place will be discussed. That is all the sport

:20:12. > :20:14.for now. See you tomorrow. She was missing for nearly 13 years,

:20:15. > :20:17.and now there are question marks The woman, who is known as Geeta,

:20:18. > :20:21.and is deaf and mute, disappeared from her family home

:20:22. > :20:24.in the Punjab in India It's thought she wandered

:20:25. > :20:26.into Pakistan. Efforts to find her family began

:20:27. > :20:29.in August, after India accepted for the first time that Geeta was

:20:30. > :20:32.one of its citizens, and Indian television channels

:20:33. > :20:33.started airing her photographs. She initally identified a number

:20:34. > :20:36.of people in photographs as her family, but now says she

:20:37. > :20:38.doesn't recognise them. It's a case that's gripped India,

:20:39. > :20:41.and now the Government say DNA tests will be carried out to make sure

:20:42. > :21:04.she's reunited with her true family. Let us talk now to our correspondent

:21:05. > :21:10.in Delhi. Tell us what we know about Geeta. As you said this is her story

:21:11. > :21:14.is something that has gripped the whole nation, it has caught the

:21:15. > :21:18.imagination of people here, because her story resembles that of a

:21:19. > :21:22.Bollywood film that was released in India, and the plot of that film

:21:23. > :21:28.resolves round a Pakistani girl who is stranded in India and is later

:21:29. > :21:35.reunited with her family. Geeta 's story has the same kind of twist and

:21:36. > :21:39.turns if I can say, that appear in any Bollywood film in India. She

:21:40. > :21:45.arrived yesterday, in Delhi. As soon as she was presented to the family

:21:46. > :21:48.that she had previously recognised in photographs, she refused to

:21:49. > :21:54.recognise them, so now the Government is saying that DNA

:21:55. > :21:59.samples will be collected and sent for confirmation, whether or not

:22:00. > :22:03.Geeta belongs to that family. Mean while they are saying that Geeta

:22:04. > :22:08.will be kept in a care home and the state will continue to take care of

:22:09. > :22:10.her. Interestingly, four other families have claimed that Geeta is

:22:11. > :22:17.their relative. Right. OK. But hopefully the DNA

:22:18. > :22:22.test should prove the truth, you would have thought? Yes, exactly.

:22:23. > :22:28.That is what everybody is watching out for, in India. This story has,

:22:29. > :22:33.you know, gripped the imagination of not just the people in India but

:22:34. > :22:37.also in Pakistan. As soon as an announce was made yesterday now DNA

:22:38. > :22:41.test reports will be awaited, the news channels and even on social

:22:42. > :22:46.media, this news was taken up big time, and now everybody is just

:22:47. > :22:49.waiting to see what the DNA reports have to say and what the final

:22:50. > :22:55.destiny of this mystery girl would be.

:22:56. > :22:58.Thank you for talking to us. Thank you for your comments about tax

:22:59. > :23:03.credits, and about the House of Lords and the vote last night. We

:23:04. > :23:07.asked you if you thought they did the right thing or if it was wrong

:23:08. > :23:15.for an unelected chamber to overstep the mark. Babses sent us a poem.

:23:16. > :23:20.Georgy Porgy squeezed the poor to made them cry. When the Lords came

:23:21. > :23:26.out to play they kicked his ass and ran away.

:23:27. > :23:31.Tom on e-mail said the House of Lords is a pompous organisation that

:23:32. > :23:37.should have been established years ago. -- polished. Why bother having

:23:38. > :23:47.Parliamentary elections at all. Another one says it is about time

:23:48. > :23:50.the Lord did something good at all. Another one. The House of Lords

:23:51. > :23:51.acted on the side of the poorest in society. What they did was right and

:23:52. > :24:19.proper. Next or reporter meets the preppers

:24:20. > :24:24.the men who make sure they are fully equipped to survive in the event of

:24:25. > :24:29.a catastrophe. Roach spent most of his life in force. He is a prepper.

:24:30. > :24:33.Preppers are people who feel as if catastrophe is imminent and so

:24:34. > :24:40.prepare for a huge range of potential disasters. From nuclear

:24:41. > :24:44.war to financial collapse. Roach holds drills where he escapes to a

:24:45. > :24:49.location for such an event. I asked them to take me along. He told me to

:24:50. > :24:57.come to this door which is supposedly his house.

:24:58. > :25:11.The specific scenario we were doing was in the case of contagion or a

:25:12. > :25:19.pandemic. It is not the most inconspicuous

:25:20. > :25:27.tent. This isn't survival. What this is for me, is living simply.

:25:28. > :25:34.In the space of about 30 minutes we have set up camp. We have a fire, we

:25:35. > :25:39.have some food. He is cooking bangers and mash, life is good but

:25:40. > :25:47.we are still in a forest so it is not that good. If there was

:25:48. > :25:50.contagion and zombie like creatures tried to attack you what would

:25:51. > :25:57.happen? I would kill them. With the knife? With anything. With anything.

:25:58. > :26:03.With anything. With anything. With your hand, with a piece of wood.

:26:04. > :26:11.Would you try and bail out if there was people who came, or would you

:26:12. > :26:18.fight back? Ultimately, it is, so many people possibles. Welcome to my

:26:19. > :26:21.world. Do you think that deep down inside you kind of, because you

:26:22. > :26:28.spent so long preparing for it, you kind of hope something is going to

:26:29. > :26:32.happen? I don't want the world to end, I don't want bad things to

:26:33. > :26:41.happen to good people. I am not in control of the world. Are you

:26:42. > :26:47.paranoid? No. I suppose most people don't think about such consequences

:26:48. > :26:51.and such potential disasters. Some would say you are taking this too

:26:52. > :26:56.far? To a degree they are absolutely right. What you could do, is put

:26:57. > :27:01.every spare penny you have in the bank for a rainy day, that is

:27:02. > :27:05.prepping. You could pay off your mortgage ten years early, whatever

:27:06. > :27:15.you decide, you have to do to prepare for the future, that makes

:27:16. > :27:18.you a prepper. If you want to watch or share the

:27:19. > :27:20.full film you can find it on our programme page.

:27:21. > :27:22.Matthew Etherington was a Premier League footballer with

:27:23. > :27:25.West Ham and Stoke with a pretty good life - a salary that

:27:26. > :27:28.most 20-somethings could only dream of, and a loving wife and family.

:27:29. > :27:31.Yet behind the scenes he was hiding a devastating secret -

:27:32. > :27:36.At its worst, when he was playing for West Ham, it was so bad that he

:27:37. > :27:38.was gambling away tens of thousands of pounds every week.

:27:39. > :27:41.With ?1.5 million worth of debts, he finally sought

:27:42. > :27:44.the help that he needed to stop gambling for good, but he paid

:27:45. > :27:46.the price physically and emotionally as his marriage broke down.

:27:47. > :27:49.He retired from football last year and is here to tell his story

:27:50. > :28:08.How are you? Good. Why don't you tell the audience how the gambling

:28:09. > :28:10.began? It was when I signed for Tottenham, I moved from Peterborough

:28:11. > :28:16.to Tottenham when I was 18. We got put up in a hotel, me and Simon Day

:28:17. > :28:23.advice who moved with me at the time. Day-to-day life, it is good, I

:28:24. > :28:28.am privileged to do it, but you get in for training, 9.30. You train

:28:29. > :28:32.round 10.30. You are home, we were in the hotel round 1.00, so there is

:28:33. > :28:36.a lot of time to fill. We were earning very good money, very

:28:37. > :28:43.privileged to earn that money, as I said, but time and a lot of money on

:28:44. > :28:48.your hands. It is not a good recipe. So it was boredom and access to

:28:49. > :28:51.cash? It was for me. I made the choice I made first and foremost,

:28:52. > :28:55.there is no-one else to blame but myself. I looked at The Evening

:28:56. > :28:59.Standard and there was a racing card there for the dog, I thought I would

:29:00. > :29:03.go along, that is how it started. It was gradual. It got bad in the next

:29:04. > :29:08.three or four years but that is where it started. Right. How much

:29:09. > :29:17.were you earning? A few thousand pounds a week. At West Ham? Round

:29:18. > :29:23.20. ?20,000 a week? Yes. Stoke? Higher, 30, yeah. ?30,000 a week.

:29:24. > :29:28.Like I said, very privileged but stupid at the same time. I learned

:29:29. > :29:35.my lesson. Was it worse at West Ham or did it get worse at Stoke? West

:29:36. > :29:42.Ham was when it was very very bad, and then I stopped, my mother made

:29:43. > :29:48.me go to Sporting Chance funded by the PFA and Tonied Adams. I didn't

:29:49. > :29:56.want to go. I was scared to go to meetings. -- Tony. People were

:29:57. > :30:02.saying I was doing this and that. I became insular. You hide everything

:30:03. > :30:05.as a gambler, deep down. I thought if I went to Gamblers Anonymous

:30:06. > :30:10.meeting I would be judged, when it is the opposite. Everyone is the

:30:11. > :30:13.same. We all have the same problems, so initially I didn't go to the

:30:14. > :30:20.meetings. I relapsed within six month, that is when it got bad, to

:30:21. > :30:25.the end of my time of West Ham. So 30,00 pounds on an average week, how

:30:26. > :30:32.much would you be galling away? It would be gone within two weeks. 30

:30:33. > :30:34.grand or 60 grand? A month's wages. Gone in two weeks, on the horse,

:30:35. > :30:48.dogs? Cassano, horse, dogs. How were you paying the bills? I

:30:49. > :30:52.wasn't, which is ultimately why I stopped in 2009. I turned up at my

:30:53. > :30:56.house with my now wife, Stephanie, my mum and sister were there and

:30:57. > :31:03.they sat around the table and made me realise how much it was affecting

:31:04. > :31:08.me. So the new? Not to the extent, I told them and they were shocked, to

:31:09. > :31:14.say the least will stop but my mum took over my finances, my dad spoke

:31:15. > :31:18.to the people I owed money to and they said, concentrate on your

:31:19. > :31:22.football. That is what I did, I got play of the year that year at

:31:23. > :31:25.Stoke. Was that to do with the fact that you liberated yourself by

:31:26. > :31:30.telling your family, then helping you? Without a doubt, that is

:31:31. > :31:37.exactly what it was. I could concentrate on my football. I had a

:31:38. > :31:42.great time at Stoke for the next four years. Do you think any part,

:31:43. > :31:47.at the beginning, when maybe gambling was fun, before you became

:31:48. > :31:51.addicted, you were looking for the Bulls, trying to recreate winning a

:31:52. > :31:57.Premier League den, or is that way too simplistic? It is right to a

:31:58. > :32:05.certain extent. When I had the win in the initial years, when I was

:32:06. > :32:09.betting, there was that buzz there, and you try to recreate that. It got

:32:10. > :32:14.to a point where I was numb to it, I was betting for the sake of it, I

:32:15. > :32:17.did not want to admit defeat. As a sports Ukraine to win, you hate

:32:18. > :32:24.losing and it was part of the problem. If you were not paying the

:32:25. > :32:28.bills, were bailiffs knocking at the door? Yes, another horrible trade as

:32:29. > :32:36.a gambler is you become a compulsive liar as well. You have every story

:32:37. > :32:39.under the sun to tell, to get yourself out of situations. I will

:32:40. > :32:43.have the money for you next month, I have money coming in, I campaign

:32:44. > :32:49.next month, so they will give you a bit more time, then you ignore their

:32:50. > :32:54.calls. My financial situation was as bad as it gets, simple as that. I

:32:55. > :32:58.think at one point there were bookies turning up at West Ham's

:32:59. > :33:03.training ground looking for you because you owed them money? Yes, I

:33:04. > :33:08.would go to the doctor that night, Walthamstow, Romford, they knew who

:33:09. > :33:12.I was, I was earning money at the time, so I would bet on credit and

:33:13. > :33:15.say I would give them a check at the end of the night and they were fine

:33:16. > :33:19.with it. If I was losing, I would leave before the last race and they

:33:20. > :33:23.could not get their money, and they would turn up at the training ground

:33:24. > :33:27.the next day. Obviously we had security at the front of the

:33:28. > :33:31.training ground but I would have to go and face them and tell them I

:33:32. > :33:35.would have it for them next week or the week after. I was basically

:33:36. > :33:38.trying to get myself out of situations all the time, and that is

:33:39. > :33:44.what happens as a compulsive gambler. It was a very stressful

:33:45. > :33:50.time, but one I am glad I am out of now. I will ask more about that in a

:33:51. > :33:54.second. If you have spent all of your wages and no one is giving you

:33:55. > :34:02.credit, do you find yourself looking around for loose change? Yes, the

:34:03. > :34:06.prime example, the day before I stopped, my wife now, Stephanie, we

:34:07. > :34:10.were not married at the time but I said I was going to the shop, she

:34:11. > :34:14.knew full well I was going to the bookmakers. I had exhausted all

:34:15. > :34:18.means of any cash to have a better so I looked at the ashtray in my

:34:19. > :34:23.car, there was some loose change there, I had ?5 in my pocket, did

:34:24. > :34:27.not have enough petrol to get home but I would rather use the money to

:34:28. > :34:32.go into the bookmakers and have a bet then fill my car with petrol. My

:34:33. > :34:38.priorities were all wrong and luckily that day when I got home my

:34:39. > :34:42.family were there. You said earlier that it became public that there was

:34:43. > :34:46.a photograph of you coming out of a bookie, so fans would know and fans

:34:47. > :34:51.from opposing teams would know, and presumably they let you know that a

:34:52. > :34:56.new? Oh, yes, probably because I am talking about it so openly, there

:34:57. > :34:59.was a stigma attached to myself with regards the gambling but I am not

:35:00. > :35:04.shy to talk about it, I want to help other people. But there are a large

:35:05. > :35:08.percentage of people ignorant towards it, they don't see it as an

:35:09. > :35:12.illness, they see it as someone being silly, why can't you just

:35:13. > :35:16.stop? I have been haunted lots of times on the football pitch, in

:35:17. > :35:21.restaurants, bars, but it is what it is, it doesn't affect me any more. I

:35:22. > :35:25.don't want people to feel sorry for me in any way, shape or form, it is

:35:26. > :35:28.what it is. Let's talk about addiction, whether gambling,

:35:29. > :35:33.alcohol, drugs, there are people who think you can just stop, you can

:35:34. > :35:38.wake up in the morning and make that choice. Explain to them why it is an

:35:39. > :35:43.illness? It takes open your life. It took over my life, it was all I

:35:44. > :35:48.thought about when I woke up, before I went to sleep, friendships were

:35:49. > :35:53.ruined, friendships with loved ones were ruined. Luckily I have

:35:54. > :35:57.rekindled most of them now. But it is an illness, without a shadow of a

:35:58. > :36:02.doubt, and I was very, very ill with it. Again, like I said, I made my

:36:03. > :36:06.own choices, no one forced me to do what I did, but it was definitely a

:36:07. > :36:10.learning curve and definitely an illness and people who think

:36:11. > :36:14.otherwise are quite ignorant. You told us a little bit about gamblers

:36:15. > :36:17.anonymous, you thought you would be judged but it is not like that. Can

:36:18. > :36:22.you give us an insight into those meetings? Did you say, I am

:36:23. > :36:28.Matthew... I am a compulsive gambler, I have not had a bet since

:36:29. > :36:34.my last meeting, that is what you say when you address the room. You

:36:35. > :36:38.talk about your everyday life, your struggles, if there are any gambling

:36:39. > :36:44.related issues, issues at home, with your friends, etc. It is nice, you

:36:45. > :36:48.walk out of the room and you feel liberated, it is a weight off my

:36:49. > :36:55.shoulders, you feel like your head is clear. It works, simple as that.

:36:56. > :36:59.Can you say it works? My understanding from addiction is

:37:00. > :37:06.that, actually, you are never cured, you have to take each day at

:37:07. > :37:10.a time? Is that right? Oh, yes, what I meant is that going to the

:37:11. > :37:14.meetings helps. It is down to you to self maintained, things like that,

:37:15. > :37:18.it is a constant battle they in, day out, that I know what I have got to

:37:19. > :37:22.lose, I understand the addiction a lot more, thankfully, I understand

:37:23. > :37:27.signs when I could be getting back into old habits. What are those

:37:28. > :37:34.triggers that you need to look out for? Time on my hands. But you have

:37:35. > :37:38.retired! These last six to nine months have not been easy, I will be

:37:39. > :37:44.the first to admit that, but I have an amazing wife, a 14-month-old

:37:45. > :37:48.daughter who I have seen grown-up, which I would not have done if I was

:37:49. > :37:52.playing football, so they have taken plenty of my time. But there are

:37:53. > :37:58.signs, you see yourself in situations from time to time. It is

:37:59. > :38:02.a day-to-day battle, mentally those demons are in your head, I will not

:38:03. > :38:07.lie, but I know I have got a lot to lose and I understand the illness a

:38:08. > :38:10.lot more. A couple of messages, this is from, I did know, somebody on

:38:11. > :38:18.Twitter, great honesty and awareness raising. One tweet says, listening

:38:19. > :38:22.to Matthew Etherington on Victoria Derbyshire, what a player he was and

:38:23. > :38:25.good to hear he is back on track. When you wake up in the morning, is

:38:26. > :38:33.it the first thing you think about, or not now? Not any more, it is

:38:34. > :38:38.usually my daughter crying! It was when I was in the height of the

:38:39. > :38:42.addiction. Now, it is not in my mind as much. Don't get me wrong, it is

:38:43. > :38:46.in my mind from time to time but nowhere near as much, it does not

:38:47. > :38:50.the whole of my day or the thoughts of my day, and there is more to life

:38:51. > :38:55.now, and I lead a normal life which I never thought I would be able to

:38:56. > :39:00.lead. It is a normal, mundane in many respects. Normal is good! How

:39:01. > :39:07.big a problem is gambling within top-class football? It is hard to

:39:08. > :39:12.say, gambling is an illness. You can see in an alcoholic, a drug addict,

:39:13. > :39:17.physically in their appearance they may have problems. With gambling,

:39:18. > :39:22.you hide things deep deep down. And there is the denial aspect? There is

:39:23. > :39:26.the denial, admitting defeat. I have had agents ring me on behalf of

:39:27. > :39:31.players, probably a dozen now, Spain, can you speak to the player,

:39:32. > :39:35.he is in a lot of trouble, his wife is thinking about leaving, he is in

:39:36. > :39:39.financial trouble. I have said, yes, obviously I will not be able to stop

:39:40. > :39:44.him, she has to want to do it himself but if he wants to talk, I

:39:45. > :39:49.will be there. Not one player has called me. What does that tell you?

:39:50. > :39:53.They are not ready to stop, first and foremost it has to come from

:39:54. > :39:58.yourself. They are not ready to stop at this moment in time. Luckily

:39:59. > :40:01.there came a time when I did stop. But with the cash that footballers

:40:02. > :40:07.are in, the time on their hands, it is a recipe for disaster, I

:40:08. > :40:12.suppose. Eric tweets to say, I have been in this situation, too, and it

:40:13. > :40:15.is horrible. I lost ?2000 in two months and I am trying to get

:40:16. > :40:21.better. You would recommend gamblers anonymous? Definitely, speaking to

:40:22. > :40:25.people who can relate to him, like-minded people, you will not get

:40:26. > :40:28.judged in that room in any way, shape or form. People give good

:40:29. > :40:33.advice and it is the only place to go if you want to stop. Do you think

:40:34. > :40:38.sport, football itself, takes the risk of being addicted to gambling

:40:39. > :40:43.from its members, its players, seriously enough? I'm not sure, to

:40:44. > :40:50.be honest. It is like all walks of life, it is already tip. I lost

:40:51. > :40:54.millions of pounds, but as an addicted gambler you spend on

:40:55. > :40:58.gambling what you earn. I think people in football have addiction

:40:59. > :41:02.problems but I think in all walks of life people have addiction problems.

:41:03. > :41:06.I don't think it is rife in football in any way but there are issues with

:41:07. > :41:10.it. Thank you very much for being so candid, we really appreciate you

:41:11. > :41:13.coming on the programme. Next, the family of Mark Duggan,

:41:14. > :41:18.whose shooting by police in Tottenham, sparked riots in Britain

:41:19. > :41:23.in 2011 have won the right to appeal against an inquest decision that he

:41:24. > :41:26.was lawfully killed. Our correspondent is that the Court of

:41:27. > :41:31.Appeal. This is just the first step in the process, I think?

:41:32. > :41:35.That's right, they are in the foothills of this whole process. The

:41:36. > :41:40.inquest jury, which sat at this court last year, came in with a

:41:41. > :41:43.verdict in January 2014 that Mark Duggan had been lawfully killed but

:41:44. > :41:49.they said they did not believe that he had a gun in his hand when he was

:41:50. > :42:04.shot. The police officer who fired the fatal shot to kill Mark Duggan

:42:05. > :42:13.was known only as Tell Mama Tell -- V53. He said he believed Mark Duggan

:42:14. > :42:16.had thrown the gun before he was killed, a weapon was found 20 feet

:42:17. > :42:22.from the shooting. Mark Duggan's family and the lawyers have always

:42:23. > :42:24.said the findings were contradictory, how could the

:42:25. > :42:28.jewellery said he was lawfully killed yet at the same time said

:42:29. > :42:32.they did not believe he had the gun in his hand when he was shot? This

:42:33. > :42:37.will be thrashed out at the Court of Appeal at a gate in the future.

:42:38. > :42:40.Let's bring you a little bit more on the investigation we mentioned

:42:41. > :42:44.earlier in the States after that video emerged apparently showing a

:42:45. > :42:48.police officer, not apparently, you can see it yourself, shoving a

:42:49. > :42:52.police officer throwing a female people across a classroom. This

:42:53. > :42:56.footage was reportedly taken by a pupil in the class at Spring Valley

:42:57. > :43:00.high school in Columbia, South Carolina. It is thought the officer

:43:01. > :43:04.was called after the particular student refused to leave the class.

:43:05. > :43:07.It looks like hubris trains her around the neck before quickly

:43:08. > :43:12.pulling her desk and her backwards towards the floor. Soon after he

:43:13. > :43:14.appears to throw her if you meet is across the classroom. Civil

:43:15. > :43:18.liberties groups have said the actions were not justified. The

:43:19. > :43:22.Sheriff's spokesperson, Curtis Wilson, says they are reviewing the

:43:23. > :43:26.evidence. This student was as to leave the

:43:27. > :43:33.class several times, the principle is there as well, and the officer

:43:34. > :43:35.was called to have the student removed from the location. The

:43:36. > :43:40.student refused and the officer acted as you see on the video. What

:43:41. > :43:45.we saw was just a kid bit of what the video showed. The incident that

:43:46. > :43:51.took place that led up to it and what happened afterwards, all of

:43:52. > :43:53.that will take part in what the Sheriff decides.

:43:54. > :43:56.Any update you will hear on BBC News.

:43:57. > :43:57.Thank you for joining us, we are back tomorrow at 9:15am. Have a good

:43:58. > :44:02.day.