28/10/2015

:00:00. > :00:08.Hello it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:09. > :00:29.If we have introduced a charges encouraging innocent

:00:30. > :00:30.fines were people are proven guilty and they are not, that is not

:00:31. > :00:31.justice. We'll hear one claim that

:00:32. > :00:34.a rape victim was denied compensation because her offender

:00:35. > :00:36.couldn't pay his court charge. Plus -

:00:37. > :00:38.a week since TalkTalk was hacked - customers tell us they've been

:00:39. > :00:41.warning the company about potential If you're a TalkTalk

:00:42. > :00:46.customer do get in touch. And -

:00:47. > :00:48.two police officers tell us how they risked their lives by deliberately

:00:49. > :00:50.driving their police car head-on into another car driving the wrong

:00:51. > :01:06.way down a dual carriageway. Hello - welcome to the programme

:01:07. > :01:09.- we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Throughout the programme we'll bring

:01:10. > :01:14.you the latest breaking news and developing stories - and, as always,

:01:15. > :01:17.keen to hear from you. A little later in the programme

:01:18. > :01:19.we'll hear about concerns that an increasing number of young women

:01:20. > :01:22.with diabetes are skipping insulin If you've experienced it do get

:01:23. > :01:34.in touch Your contributions to this programme

:01:35. > :01:36.and your expertise really is key actually - texts will be charged

:01:37. > :01:38.at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch the

:01:39. > :01:41.programme online wherever you are - via the bbc news app or our website

:01:42. > :01:44.bbc.co.uk/victoria - and you can also subscribe to all

:01:45. > :01:47.our features on the news app, by going to add topics

:01:48. > :01:49.and searching "Victoria Derbyshire". We'll start the programme this

:01:50. > :01:51.morning with further claims that mandatory criminal court charges

:01:52. > :01:53.are encouraging innocent people A ?150 fine is issued

:01:54. > :01:57.if someone pleads guilty to a criminal offence - but it can

:01:58. > :02:00.rise to ?1200 if they deny It's being described as a tax

:02:01. > :02:11.on justice. It's something we've covered

:02:12. > :02:15.on this programme before when former magistrate Nigel Allcoat told

:02:16. > :02:18.us he had resigned from the bench after being suspended for trying to

:02:19. > :02:34.pay asylum seeker's court fine. I had before me a young person. In

:02:35. > :02:38.his 20s. In no doubt had got to this country via any means, as we have

:02:39. > :02:46.seen on the news recently. We don't know the background. But he was

:02:47. > :02:56.there as a bona fides silence the. -- bona fides asylum seeker. He

:02:57. > :03:00.cannot work. He has a top up card which is provided to him by the

:03:01. > :03:06.Government. It is worth ?35 per week. He can spend the proceeds of

:03:07. > :03:10.this card in certain stores. He did not have the money. But as it

:03:11. > :03:16.stands, this court charge has to be paid, but he has no wherewithal to

:03:17. > :03:22.pay. It was a Catch-22 situation. We were getting nowhere. If this isn't

:03:23. > :03:27.paid he could back to court again and subsequently there is a

:03:28. > :03:34.possibility that he could go to prison. Therefore, this is a time

:03:35. > :03:41.when we should not be, well, we have to stop people reoffending. At this

:03:42. > :03:46.point, he had no wherewithal to pay. Nor was he legally in a

:03:47. > :03:50.position to pay. It was something which this charge by the Government

:03:51. > :03:54.I don't think has been properly thought through.

:03:55. > :03:56.In total it's estimated around 50 magistrates have resigned

:03:57. > :04:02.Now it's emerged that a sexual assault victim may not have

:04:03. > :04:05.got compensation from her attacker - because he couldn't afford to pay

:04:06. > :04:10.Here to explain more is our legal affairs correspondent

:04:11. > :04:12.Clive Coleman and Ben Summerskill from the Criminal Justice Alliance,

:04:13. > :04:14.a group that works to improve the criminal justice system.

:04:15. > :04:16.Also, Richard Monkhouse, the chairman of the Magistrates

:04:17. > :04:28.Welcome to all of you. Clive, when were these charges brought in, and

:04:29. > :04:31.why? April. It was thought that people who are guilty should pay

:04:32. > :04:37.towards the running costs of the criminal court. They have been

:04:38. > :04:41.pretty controversial from the start. They are not discretionary. They

:04:42. > :04:45.absolutely have to be imposed. They are not means tested. It does not

:04:46. > :04:48.depend on your income, they just have to be imposed. They can be

:04:49. > :04:53.imposed to be paid in instalments. But they are imposed on top of

:04:54. > :04:57.everything else. On top of any fines, any compensation, any

:04:58. > :05:03.prosecution costs order. And the victim surcharge, of course, which

:05:04. > :05:08.also has to be imposed. From the get go there were stories that people,

:05:09. > :05:12.because they started at ?150 in the Magistrates' Court, but they rise

:05:13. > :05:20.steeply to ?1000. That is if you plead guilty, of course. It is up to

:05:21. > :05:27.?1000 if you found guilty in a cruel court. They can go even higher,

:05:28. > :05:31.sometimes as much as ?1200, in a Supreme Court. Almost 50 magistrates

:05:32. > :05:36.have resided in relation to the charge because they feel

:05:37. > :05:40.uncomfortable about it. -- have resigned. Their stories about people

:05:41. > :05:46.pleading simply because they want to pay the lower version of the charge.

:05:47. > :05:50.The Government is committed to a review after three years of this

:05:51. > :05:55.charge, but the magistrates Association would like that to be

:05:56. > :05:58.much quicker. They would like these charges to be discretionary. So the

:05:59. > :06:04.magistrate or the judge has the power to say whether or not they are

:06:05. > :06:07.imposed. Richard Monkhouse, Clyde says there is anecdotal evidence

:06:08. > :06:13.that these charges are leading to innocent people pleading guilty in

:06:14. > :06:22.order to get the lesser charge. -- Clive. Has that happened, is it

:06:23. > :06:25.true? Yes. We know of the magistrates who have refused to

:06:26. > :06:29.access an equivocal plea when the individual has said, I'm not guilty

:06:30. > :06:35.but I am pleading guilty. That of course is not a guilty plea. Some

:06:36. > :06:43.magistrates, we have heard this, have refused to access that. Ben

:06:44. > :06:51.Summerskill, our solicitors advising defendants to do this? Cases we have

:06:52. > :06:53.come across have suggested that solicitors are advising what the

:06:54. > :07:00.circumstances will be if they plead guilty. There was one credible case,

:07:01. > :07:04.I think, of a guy in Nottinghamshire who got involved in a fracas because

:07:05. > :07:11.his son was being attacked at a football match. He was charged with

:07:12. > :07:15.insulting behaviour. On the face of it, even a magistrate acknowledged

:07:16. > :07:20.he probably would be found not guilty. But he said, if I found

:07:21. > :07:24.guilty, I will get a ?500 fine, otherwise I will get a ?150 fine,

:07:25. > :07:33.therefore I will plead guilty. Isn't justice. Why do you say that? --

:07:34. > :07:35.that is not justice. We have introduced a system where people

:07:36. > :07:42.don't have the capacity to pay a fine in the first place, as has been

:07:43. > :07:46.pointed out they are means tested. They are a punishment, but they are

:07:47. > :07:53.actually payable. If you then lobby a much bigger fine, the Government

:07:54. > :07:58.set aside ?5 million to provide 200 prison places, I have seen the

:07:59. > :08:05.document, for people they know will not be able to pay these fines even

:08:06. > :08:07.if they have only been convicted of a ?1.50 fare evasion. If you find a

:08:08. > :08:12.situation where people are under that sort of pressure, then that

:08:13. > :08:15.isn't justice, because they are being pressured in order to plea in

:08:16. > :08:23.a way which isn't true to what they believe to have happened. It is

:08:24. > :08:27.worth just reminding ourselves what Chris Grayling said back in April

:08:28. > :08:31.when he was Justice Secretary. It is the principle of having to pay

:08:32. > :08:35.towards the cost of you taking up court time. If you have committed a

:08:36. > :08:40.crime. He said, those who commit crime, should pay their way, and

:08:41. > :08:44.contribute to the cost of their court cases. Do you accept that

:08:45. > :08:51.principle? We accept the Government has a right to sort out how the

:08:52. > :08:56.justice system will be funded. That is a bit disingenuous, though,

:08:57. > :09:00.because we have situations where in the case of DVLA cases, London

:09:01. > :09:06.transport cases, where cases are dealt with without the defendant

:09:07. > :09:11.being there in less than a minute. And the same criminal court charge

:09:12. > :09:15.is applied. The same charge applies whether you take a minute or six

:09:16. > :09:20.hours over a case. If it is going to be a genuine effort to recommence

:09:21. > :09:28.the Court of their time, then there should be some sort of less than

:09:29. > :09:33.mandatory charge which, given discretion, would allow us to do not

:09:34. > :09:38.only that but also take into consideration the needs of the

:09:39. > :09:42.defendant. Ben Summerskill, tell us exactly how the court charges led to

:09:43. > :09:43.a victim of sexual assault not getting compensation from the

:09:44. > :09:57.accused? This is a case where the getting compensation from the

:09:58. > :09:59.impose a ?900 fine on the defendant. It was so obvious that a

:10:00. > :10:01.compensation It was so obvious that a

:10:02. > :10:06.recovered that he said there It was so obvious that a

:10:07. > :10:12.just no point in opposing it. That is because magistrates and judges

:10:13. > :10:16.are obliged to impose a court charged over and above anything else

:10:17. > :10:19.specifically without making any allowance. It isn't that they might

:10:20. > :10:26.not make an allowance, it is specifically without making an

:10:27. > :10:31.allowance for somebody's ability to pay. I have spoken to the Ministry

:10:32. > :10:35.of Justice. They have said there are guidelines in place. The charge has

:10:36. > :10:40.to be imposed. The judge has no discretion. What he should do in

:10:41. > :10:44.those circumstances is to impose the compensation, to be paid in

:10:45. > :10:52.instalments, in very small instalments. So it is

:10:53. > :10:54.instalments, in very small the defendant. I guess

:10:55. > :10:59.instalments, in very small wasn't any money left in the pot,

:11:00. > :11:00.I'm not sure... It is perfectly true, there is a

:11:01. > :11:04.I'm not sure... It is perfectly doing that. But the simple

:11:05. > :11:05.I'm not sure... It is perfectly is, and this isn't saying that

:11:06. > :11:13.people who have committed a criminal is, and this isn't saying that

:11:14. > :11:18.offence, that it doesn't them from committing another, 70 to

:11:19. > :11:25.80% of people them from committing another, 70 to

:11:26. > :11:29.chaotic lives. The idea you will have a phased payment over two years

:11:30. > :11:32.is something that means if have a phased payment over two years

:11:33. > :11:37.months they've made every single payment and it failed -- and

:11:38. > :11:39.months they've made every single failed to make a payment at all they

:11:40. > :11:46.get taken back to court because they are in breach. And actually then, as

:11:47. > :11:48.I've already indicated, they expose themselves to the possibility of

:11:49. > :11:57.being imprisoned for nonpayment of the fine will stop -- of the fine.

:11:58. > :12:01.It is a scheme which was set up to nominee look good, but it is one of

:12:02. > :12:05.those schemes where civil servants dream things up. If they got into

:12:06. > :12:10.the real world they dream things up. If they got into

:12:11. > :12:11.they are not actually practical. We asked the Ministry of Justice for an

:12:12. > :12:15.interview, asked the Ministry of Justice for an

:12:16. > :12:21.Nobody was available, but they gave was right that convicted adult

:12:22. > :12:23.Nobody was available, but they gave offenders should pay towards

:12:24. > :12:24.Nobody was available, but they gave cost of running court as it reduced

:12:25. > :12:44.the burden on taxpayers One other thing, I have

:12:45. > :12:45.speaking to magistrates, and Richard might be able to comment on this

:12:46. > :12:50.also. It might be able to comment on this

:12:51. > :12:57.question that there is real concern about this charge. Magistrates are

:12:58. > :13:01.trying to find a way around it. In a case where they would order the

:13:02. > :13:05.prosecution cost, if a defendant has been found guilty and pays towards

:13:06. > :13:08.the prosecution, some magistrates have told me they are not awarding

:13:09. > :13:12.those costs because they know they have to impose the common law courts

:13:13. > :13:18.charge. That means the Crown Prosecution Service is offers are

:13:19. > :13:22.left in a shortfall situation because magistrates are trying, you

:13:23. > :13:32.know, to find a way to mitigate this charge. -- CPS coffers. Richard will

:13:33. > :13:38.know better than me about that. When we are awarding financial

:13:39. > :13:42.impositions we're always told in our guidelines that compensation comes

:13:43. > :13:46.first. The problem with paying compensation in drips and drugs is

:13:47. > :13:54.that the victim is receiving it in drips and drabs and that has an

:13:55. > :13:58.effect on them. -- dribs and drabs. Every time they receive a payment it

:13:59. > :14:06.is a reminder of the offence against them. We do know that we have

:14:07. > :14:11.discretion of the Government surcharge. It isn't a victim

:14:12. > :14:20.surcharge any more. If we do pay on translation we have discretion over

:14:21. > :14:23.prosecution costs. We have no discretion over the criminal court

:14:24. > :14:31.judge, which is what makes it so alien to the magistrates. Thank you

:14:32. > :14:55.all. Coming up -

:14:56. > :14:58.a week since TalkTalk was hacked - customers tell us they've been

:14:59. > :15:00.warning the company about potential And -

:15:01. > :15:04.two police officers tell us how they risked their lives by deliberately

:15:05. > :15:06.driving their police car head-on into another car driving the wrong

:15:07. > :15:09.way down a dual carriageway. Canadian investigators say a whale

:15:10. > :15:11.watching boat that capsized - killing five British people -

:15:12. > :15:13.may have become unstable because the passengers had crowded

:15:14. > :15:16.on to one side of the deck. The boat sank near Tofino,

:15:17. > :15:18.British Columbia, on Sunday. A 27-year-old Australian

:15:19. > :15:25.man remains missing. Volkswagen has announced big losses

:15:26. > :15:28.- in its first figures since the scandal over rigged emissions tests

:15:29. > :15:31.broke last month. In the three months to September, it recorded an

:15:32. > :15:34.operating loss of three and a half billion euros, which is

:15:35. > :15:45.?2.5 billion. David Cameron is to challenge claims

:15:46. > :15:48.by campaigners who want Britain to leave the European Union

:15:49. > :15:50.and adopt a looser relationship He is travelling to Iceland

:15:51. > :15:53.for a meeting of northern European Thousands of cases of cancer

:15:54. > :16:00.in England could be diagnosed That's according to

:16:01. > :16:03.Cancer Research UK. It's been analysing two years

:16:04. > :16:06.of data and says it has found an "unacceptable variation" between

:16:07. > :16:09.different parts of the country. Here's our health correspondent,

:16:10. > :16:21.Jane Dreaper. Detecting cancer early is vital, it

:16:22. > :16:26.improves the chances of surviving. Overall, cases are being spotted at

:16:27. > :16:29.an earlier stage. But Cancer Research UK says there is still room

:16:30. > :16:34.for improvement in many parts of England. The charity worked at new

:16:35. > :16:37.figures covering the two years of cancer cases and it says if all

:16:38. > :16:43.regions had the same rate of early diagnosis is south-west England,

:16:44. > :16:48.almost 20,000 cancer cases would be found soon. It is complex. In East

:16:49. > :16:51.Anglia, I'll cancer is picked up quickly but it is one of the worst

:16:52. > :16:56.regions for detect and skin cancer early -- bowel cancer.

:16:57. > :17:01.We need to raise public awareness of symptoms and encourage people to see

:17:02. > :17:05.their GP. GPs need to be supported to refer people quickly and

:17:06. > :17:11.encouraged if they have concerns to send people for the tests they need.

:17:12. > :17:14.And we need a diagnostic services, where we get scans and tests, to

:17:15. > :17:18.have the resources they need to work effectively.

:17:19. > :17:25.And we all have a part to play. This new campaign encourages us not to

:17:26. > :17:30.ignore unusual lumps in our bodies. NHS England says it is working with

:17:31. > :17:31.doctors towards giving all patients cancer test results within four

:17:32. > :17:34.weeks, by 2020. Let's catch up with all

:17:35. > :17:43.the sport now. Good morning. We were talking

:17:44. > :17:50.yesterday about Jose Mourinho and you said, has he lost it? Today, I

:17:51. > :17:54.am going to say more pressure has been heaped on him, his side lost on

:17:55. > :17:59.penalties to Stoke in the League Cup. Incredible when they won the

:18:00. > :18:05.League Cup last season and Diego Costa vest Reicher was substituted

:18:06. > :18:10.off. -- their striker. He might not make it for the big game against

:18:11. > :18:15.Liverpool on Saturday. Reports suggested this week if the result is

:18:16. > :18:18.not good enough against Liverpool, Jose Mourinho could face the sack,

:18:19. > :18:25.but he remains defiant and he says he will rest easy. Arsenal also out

:18:26. > :18:29.of the competition after being beaten 3-0 by Sheffield Wednesday, a

:18:30. > :18:34.leak below them. But not all bad news. Touche gymnasts won their

:18:35. > :18:40.first ever World Championship team medal, claiming Bronze in Glasgow,

:18:41. > :18:44.beating the previous best finish of faith by the women in 2011. London

:18:45. > :18:50.Irish will play Saracens in New York next year, the first ship rugby game

:18:51. > :18:56.to be finished overseas. I spoke to Chief Executive of Casey and he says

:18:57. > :18:59.it will be a great exposure to the club. You can hear what he says

:19:00. > :19:05.about the growth of the sport at ten o'clock. Thank you. Thank you for

:19:06. > :19:10.your comments on the court charges. On Twitter, it says, imposing

:19:11. > :19:14.inappropriately large court fees is just another example of the

:19:15. > :19:18.Conservative ideological move to make poverty a crime. Imagine a

:19:19. > :19:24.country where misfortune and poverty were considered a crime. You do not

:19:25. > :19:29.have too, just look around! Hannah says, I have in the victim of two

:19:30. > :19:32.assaults and I agree the accused should pay towards court costs but

:19:33. > :19:38.compensation is wrong, no money makes what they subject you to write

:19:39. > :19:42.and I do not agree with the culture. Penny says, I would like to

:19:43. > :19:45.highlight this happens all the time, people who are innocent and told by

:19:46. > :19:50.the police to accept a caution before it gets to court and you are

:19:51. > :19:54.advised to settle out of court because of the costs and the risks

:19:55. > :19:59.of being penalised financially by taking a case further. Leslie says,

:20:00. > :20:03.how is it fair when Fiennes are imposed by magistrates when the

:20:04. > :20:08.defendant could only" one minute? -- finds. People could be forced into

:20:09. > :20:10.crime further because of nonpayment, the government cannot be accused of

:20:11. > :20:12.having common sense! Thank you. This morning - some TalkTalk

:20:13. > :20:14.customers tell this programme they've been warning the company

:20:15. > :20:17.about security breaches for months - but the phone and internet provider

:20:18. > :20:20.hasn't done enough to help them. It's now a week since TalkTalk's

:20:21. > :20:23.website was hit by a "significant and sustained cyber-attack" - that

:20:24. > :20:27.could affect all of its four million customers. It's the third data

:20:28. > :20:29.breach at TalkTalk in recent months. We'll

:20:30. > :20:34.hear from some of those customers in

:20:35. > :20:37.just a moment, but first, let's take a look back at the events of the

:20:38. > :20:39.last week. With four million customers,

:20:40. > :20:41.TalkTalk is one of the biggest broadband

:20:42. > :20:43.and telephone providers in the UK. Last week, the company revealed it

:20:44. > :20:45.suffered a significant The most important thing

:20:46. > :20:52.for people to do is to keep an eye on their bank accounts,

:20:53. > :20:54.on their credit cards. If you spot any fraudulent activity,

:20:55. > :20:57.call your bank, contact Action Fraud, and then to monitor your

:20:58. > :20:59.credit rating through the year, which is why TalkTalk will be giving

:21:00. > :21:03.all of our customers a year's free credit monitoring, to make sure they

:21:04. > :21:05.can rest easy, that their personal It's believed hackers may have been

:21:06. > :21:12.able to access customer bank account details, sort codes,

:21:13. > :21:18.names and e-mail addresses. When you sign a contract,

:21:19. > :21:22.you expect the company to kind of keep that information safe,

:21:23. > :21:24.so it's obviously scary. There's not really been much

:21:25. > :21:28.communication, just So just find another provider,

:21:29. > :21:37.really. A 15-year-old boy was arrested

:21:38. > :21:39.in connection with the attack TalkTalk says it will only waive

:21:40. > :21:45.termination fees for customers wanting to end

:21:46. > :21:57.their contracts if they can prove Shares have fallen nearly

:21:58. > :22:01.a quarter of their value over the last week, but closed up

:22:02. > :22:03.around 13% yesterday, following the announcement on restrictions

:22:04. > :22:05.around cancelling your contract. MPs say an inquiry will be

:22:06. > :22:09.launched into the cyber attack. Let's talk now to some TalkTalk

:22:10. > :22:12.customers. Reg Allum is in Bristol this morning

:22:13. > :22:15.- he thinks he's lost over ?1,000 as a result of the breach.

:22:16. > :22:22.Brian McEwan is in Aberdeen and Angela Davies is in Chichester,

:22:23. > :22:35.and with us in the studio, cyber You think, you know that about ?1300

:22:36. > :22:39.has gone from your bank account at some point in the last week. How did

:22:40. > :22:45.you discover that had gone and what do you think happened? What happened

:22:46. > :22:47.last week when this cyber breach came into the media, I checked my

:22:48. > :22:58.bank account and I found I came into the media, I checked my

:22:59. > :23:03.account. My bank has now refunded came into the media, I checked my

:23:04. > :23:10.the money so I cannot be sure it is on -- it is connected but it is a

:23:11. > :23:15.huge coincidence it happened just before we heard about this breach,

:23:16. > :23:20.in the media. TalkTalk said investigations so far shown

:23:21. > :23:20.in the media. TalkTalk said sensitive financial information,

:23:21. > :23:23.in the media. TalkTalk said credit and debit card numbers, was

:23:24. > :23:26.protected. And credit and debit card numbers, was

:23:27. > :23:32.money was stolen from a customer's account, as the direct result of

:23:33. > :23:35.this cyber attack, as a gesture of goodwill, they would let you leave

:23:36. > :23:40.the company without charging a termination fee, or what you think

:23:41. > :23:47.of that? The problem is, there is no way to prove that money was taken

:23:48. > :23:54.from my account because of the breach of TalkTalk. It is a

:23:55. > :23:58.difficult issue. My bank cannot tell me, or they will not tell me at the

:23:59. > :24:03.moment, whether the two are connected. It

:24:04. > :24:05.moment, whether the two are TalkTalk to act in this way. They

:24:06. > :24:11.are hanging TalkTalk to act in this way. They

:24:12. > :24:16.they will not release them from their

:24:17. > :24:18.they will not release them from clause. Customers will

:24:19. > :24:18.they will not release them from go if

:24:19. > :24:24.they will not release them from think they will hope it blows over

:24:25. > :24:36.so they keep customers and the cyber breach will

:24:37. > :24:36.so they keep customers and the cyber what did you say and how did they

:24:37. > :24:40.respond? what did you say and how did they

:24:41. > :24:46.I have a customer with TalkTalk since 2006. I first became aware of

:24:47. > :24:51.the scam six months ago when I received a phone call from people

:24:52. > :24:57.claiming to be from TalkTalk. They sounded very legitimate. Assume a

:24:58. > :25:02.plea from abroad, call centres. -- resume a plea. They knew my name and

:25:03. > :25:07.address, date of birth, account number, and said I had it up with my

:25:08. > :25:12.broadband connection. I had to go onto a computer to get this

:25:13. > :25:19.resolved, thinking this was legitimate. It was not until they

:25:20. > :25:25.asked for my account details and my computer became broken that I

:25:26. > :25:31.realised it was a scam. Since then, I have been getting phone calls five

:25:32. > :25:36.times a day, this has been happening until two weeks ago. The same people

:25:37. > :25:42.phoning on time and time again. I tried to block them. What do you

:25:43. > :25:47.expect TalkTalk to do about it after telling them? After I got the

:25:48. > :25:52.initial phone call, I spoke to customer services at TalkTalk. I

:25:53. > :25:59.realised it was a scam. I got very little support from them. They asked

:26:00. > :26:05.me to follow the online protocol. And try and lock my phone receiving

:26:06. > :26:11.these calls. But that proved a failure. And I have tried different

:26:12. > :26:16.things to block them, I have been into it with Crimestoppers. Between

:26:17. > :26:24.TalkTalk and Crimestoppers, I have had very little support.

:26:25. > :26:30.Angela, somebody tried to scam you. How seriously you think TalkTalk

:26:31. > :26:36.took your concerns? They did not seem to take it seriously at all. A

:26:37. > :26:43.similar situation. I reported a broadband fault to TalkTalk, I came

:26:44. > :26:50.off the phone at 12 o'clock. Four hours later, I received a call

:26:51. > :26:53.saying to be from the TalkTalk overseas call centres saying they

:26:54. > :26:59.knew I had a problem with my broadband, it was my device causing

:27:00. > :27:04.the problem. It had malware and to fix this problem, they needed me to

:27:05. > :27:12.turn on my computer. I said I was not able to do that as I had no

:27:13. > :27:17.battery. They ended a phone call. I rang the two separate people at

:27:18. > :27:22.TalkTalk, the second was supposedly security information. They did not

:27:23. > :27:29.ask me any questions, they did not seem to want to know very much about

:27:30. > :27:36.my experience. I tried to reassure me it was very common. I said, no,

:27:37. > :27:43.it is not common, it is not a coincidence. It has to be an

:27:44. > :27:47.internal data breach. Sorry, I want to bring in Stuart.

:27:48. > :27:52.What will other companies be doing as a result of what has happened,

:27:53. > :27:59.three breaches in 12 months? It is important to recognise the facts,

:28:00. > :28:03.they are still hazy. Investigation is still ongoing. Investigations can

:28:04. > :28:06.take up to 30 days to complete. I do not think other companies are

:28:07. > :28:12.waiting for the investigation to finish. Absolutely not. Some facts

:28:13. > :28:17.will appear very soon, I expect that to happen. This is a reminder to

:28:18. > :28:24.everybody that security, parameter security. Macro what do you mean by

:28:25. > :28:31.that? We mean basically the security of an organisation's external facing

:28:32. > :28:36.the work. Organisations face threats from external attacks such as

:28:37. > :28:41.hacking like we see in the Mini -- the media, and threats from within,

:28:42. > :28:47.the insider threat. This is a reminder that we need to address

:28:48. > :28:50.security as a holistic solution. It is not just installing a piece of

:28:51. > :28:57.software and your security troubles go away. What else to you do? It is

:28:58. > :29:02.very much a programme and it includes raising awareness and

:29:03. > :29:07.education. This incident is a good opportunity for businesses elsewhere

:29:08. > :29:12.to reinstall in their employees security best practice. It is a good

:29:13. > :29:18.opportunity for them to encourage users to think about their own

:29:19. > :29:24.security landscape, if you like. Social media. Blocking social media

:29:25. > :29:30.accounts, making privacy settings secure. Different ways in which

:29:31. > :29:31.information can be lost both from customers and also businesses.

:29:32. > :29:38.Thank you. We asked TalkTalk to join us

:29:39. > :29:41.this morning and talk direct to On the specific claim

:29:42. > :29:44.from customers that they'e been warning about data breaches

:29:45. > :29:46.previously, TalkTalk told us: "There have been two other data

:29:47. > :29:49.breaches that have affected TalkTalk We know that subsequently,

:29:50. > :29:53.some customers have been targeted by scammers as a result,

:29:54. > :29:55.pretending to be from TalkTalk and trying to convince customers to

:29:56. > :29:58.give them access to their computer As well as writing to customers to

:29:59. > :30:08.warn them, we also have a help page and a dedicated The

:30:09. > :30:11.Security Hub is full of information of how to protect yourself from all

:30:12. > :30:18.sorts of online and phone scams." If you are a talk to a customer, do

:30:19. > :30:30.get in touch. -- TalkTalk customer. Let's talk to two police officers

:30:31. > :30:33.who risked their lives by deliberately driving

:30:34. > :30:34.their police car head-on into another car driving the wrong

:30:35. > :30:40.way down a dual carriageway. PCs Simon Down and

:30:41. > :30:42.Ed Stock are here - They were nominated for a

:30:43. > :30:58.Police Bravery Award. Lovely to meet you. Tell us what

:30:59. > :31:03.happened. It was an ordinary night duty. We were in an unmarked BMW,

:31:04. > :31:07.which we had been loaned at the time. We were on our way to assist

:31:08. > :31:15.some colleagues with a collision which had happened on the A3. When

:31:16. > :31:18.we joined the A3 we were told that a vehicle was travelling in the wrong

:31:19. > :31:28.way. We tried to keep everybody back. We are watching the images

:31:29. > :31:34.now. Goodness. It was a Big Bang. The car was travelling towards us at

:31:35. > :31:41.a very high speed. We were doing 20 to 30. I put the police vehicle into

:31:42. > :31:48.her part, to make sure she could not come past us. You say that so

:31:49. > :31:55.calmly. "I put the police vehicle in her path", did it feel like a calm

:31:56. > :32:02.event at the time? Surprisingly. We had an incident not that long before

:32:03. > :32:09.that time. The driver of the other car had stopped before we got there.

:32:10. > :32:12.So it came as no surprise when Simon did as we are trained to do, to

:32:13. > :32:19.protect members of the public from the oncoming vehicle. On the impact

:32:20. > :32:24.of the collision, in terms of what speed you were doing, what speed she

:32:25. > :32:30.was doing, what was the combined speed at that moment of impact?

:32:31. > :32:33.Anywhere between 80 to 100 mph. I'm not entirely sure what speed was

:32:34. > :32:39.doing. There were no specific marks to see what speed she was doing. But

:32:40. > :32:46.looking at CCTV, a good 60 to 70 mph. How come you were not injured?

:32:47. > :32:51.It helped that we were in a very big car and she was in a very small car.

:32:52. > :32:57.And Simon's skill, the way he placed our car, so it was a glancing blow

:32:58. > :33:01.rather than a full head on. Presumably you are trying to get her

:33:02. > :33:08.out of the car. Had she been drinking? I got her out, she was

:33:09. > :33:12.heavily intoxicated. She was found guilty of judging and driving and

:33:13. > :33:17.dangerous driving. Had you not been there, all of the other people

:33:18. > :33:24.driving down the A3 at that point, it could have been absolutely awful.

:33:25. > :33:29.We could have easily found somebody travelling home from work, or to

:33:30. > :33:32.work, at that time, travelling 70 mph, they are not going to expect

:33:33. > :33:40.that coming towards them. She didn't know where she was. Most people are

:33:41. > :33:43.grateful for what police officers do on a daily basis. I'm not sure we

:33:44. > :33:51.are all aware that this kind of thing can happen. You had it on the

:33:52. > :33:58.A3 and you've also had it on the M23. Do you think people realise? I

:33:59. > :34:08.don't think so. It is not just an instance like this. These kinds of

:34:09. > :34:11.stories do get very underreported by the media. Thank you for coming in

:34:12. > :34:15.and telling a wider audience about it. Thanks very much. Coming up:

:34:16. > :34:17.Doctors fears for the increasing number of young

:34:18. > :34:24.women with diabetes who are skipping insulin injections to lose weight.

:34:25. > :34:33.A Nasa spacecraft is expected to get the best view yet of one of

:34:34. > :34:36.Saturn's moons later today. The probe will fly just 30 miles above

:34:37. > :34:43.the moon surface to assess whether it has the conditions to support

:34:44. > :34:51.life. Let's talk to Nigel Henderson, whose latest book is the Astronomy

:34:52. > :34:58.Bible, tell us about this particular moon and why this is so exciting.

:34:59. > :35:02.Let's go right in. It is the search for life elsewhere in the universe.

:35:03. > :35:07.There is life on Earth. We think there might be life on Mars. But the

:35:08. > :35:10.amazing thing about these moons going around Saturn, and it

:35:11. > :35:24.amazing thing about these moons about 16 of them,

:35:25. > :35:27.amazing thing about these moons It is like an artificial moon, this

:35:28. > :35:35.satellite, taking pictures of all of the moons going around Saturn. They

:35:36. > :35:39.have reported plumes. I think they might be eruptions of water on the

:35:40. > :35:44.surface. And today the probe is going to go right through one of

:35:45. > :35:49.these plumes with water flying past it. It is going to sample what

:35:50. > :35:52.these plumes with water flying past coming from inside Saturn. If there

:35:53. > :35:57.is potentially life on another part of this small solar system, what

:35:58. > :36:03.does that mean broadly for the rest of the universe? I think if light

:36:04. > :36:06.started on Earth, well, it has gone and it has started elsewhere

:36:07. > :36:10.independently, I think it is likely that there is a lot of life

:36:11. > :36:15.elsewhere. We are looking for water. The search for life in the universe

:36:16. > :36:20.is to search for water. All life depends on water. We are made up of

:36:21. > :36:24.70% water. And that has to be liquid water. Everybody thought the moons

:36:25. > :36:28.going around Saturn were too cold, frozen solid, but something inside

:36:29. > :36:35.is heating it up. Volcanoes deep inside making an ocean underneath

:36:36. > :36:41.the icy crust. So is such an in-hospital place has lied, if we

:36:42. > :36:51.find it, then it means there will be life elsewhere. -- if such an

:36:52. > :36:56.inhospitable place has life. There are many other planets going around

:36:57. > :37:02.other stars. If there that many planets, and if there is life on

:37:03. > :37:06.this planet, there will be life elsewhere, as well. We are not

:37:07. > :37:13.looking for little green men. Just by the way. I didn't actually think

:37:14. > :37:17.we would be finding little green men, but thank you for clarifying.

:37:18. > :37:21.CHUCKLES As you know, we are not looking for

:37:22. > :37:25.little green men. But on other planets, which have been going

:37:26. > :37:29.around other sons, which could have been better billions of years, may

:37:30. > :37:36.be that little green slime has evolved into intelligent aliens. --

:37:37. > :37:42.other stars. They could be other processes of revolution. --

:37:43. > :37:53.evolution. This could be really exciting. Do you really believe

:37:54. > :37:58.this? -- there could be. Are you using the word aliens in the way I

:37:59. > :38:02.understand aliens? I am absolutely. People who walk and talk, send radio

:38:03. > :38:06.signals to each other. It happened on earth. One of the most amazing

:38:07. > :38:12.things about life on earth is it started really early. The bugs were

:38:13. > :38:17.alive about 4 billion years ago. Then we started turning into fish,

:38:18. > :38:21.amphibians, dinosaurs, then mammals. If it happened on the

:38:22. > :38:25.earth, why shouldn't it happen anywhere else? Fair enough. It is

:38:26. > :38:32.just the word aliens, isn't it? I know! If this shows would you really

:38:33. > :38:38.want it to show, what will happen after? This is mainly a Nasa

:38:39. > :38:43.mission. We shouldn't forget that the European Space Agency is leading

:38:44. > :38:46.the way. The European Space Agency has a probe going to Mars and a

:38:47. > :38:51.couple of years' time to look for life on Mars. And the Russians are

:38:52. > :38:55.still in the game. Hopefully somebody, and the Chinese are pretty

:38:56. > :38:58.active too, they are sending people into space, so between us and

:38:59. > :39:08.hopefully we can send something which will go and find something.

:39:09. > :39:13.Imagine something that is orbiting around, looking at it day in day

:39:14. > :39:17.out, the little robot could go into the edge of those cracks, and see

:39:18. > :39:25.from two feet away what is spewing out. Cool. Let's hope that happens.

:39:26. > :39:29.Thank you for being on the programme. Highly respected

:39:30. > :39:32.astronomer, Nigel, who has written loads of books on that topic.

:39:33. > :39:46.I cannot see any aliens, but a lovely picture from Anglesey! We

:39:47. > :39:51.have been as here, the brightest one, Jupiter just above it, and Mars

:39:52. > :39:55.peeking into the other side. This is fairly rare. The next one like this

:39:56. > :40:01.will not be until 2021. That is a fantastic photograph.

:40:02. > :40:04.5:30am, bright moonlight, that is why it is looking so bright, but a

:40:05. > :40:10.chance of seeing this over the next few days. The planets all orbit the

:40:11. > :40:15.sun at different rates. Forming an intricate dance, if you like, as

:40:16. > :40:19.they take their orbits round the sun. Looking at that perspective,

:40:20. > :40:23.looking across the plain of the solar system, a line-up. We have

:40:24. > :40:28.three planets lining up looking across to Venus, Mars, and onwards

:40:29. > :40:30.to Jupiter. Cloud permitting we should hopefully see that over the

:40:31. > :40:35.next few nights. And the weather?

:40:36. > :40:41.Not that great, the prospects, but let's get today out of the way. Not

:40:42. > :40:47.great if you are sitting underneath the rain. Across the eastern parts

:40:48. > :40:52.today, the West got all of the rain -- the West got all of the dry

:40:53. > :40:55.weather yesterday, but that is over the East now. Some particularly wet

:40:56. > :40:59.weather to come through Lincolnshire, East Midlands, Pennine

:41:00. > :41:04.regions over the next few hours. Lots of water on the roads. Lots of

:41:05. > :41:08.puddles mixing in with the leaves, so not terribly pleasant. But cloudy

:41:09. > :41:13.today across northern Scotland with heavy rain over central Scotland to

:41:14. > :41:15.come. But then we are out into the sunshine, Northern Ireland is

:41:16. > :41:19.lovely. The fog overnight will continue to clear away, as it will

:41:20. > :41:22.do over Wales in south-west England. This is where the best of the dry

:41:23. > :41:26.and sunny weather will be. Some showers popping up across Devon and

:41:27. > :41:31.Cornwall. Some of those could be on the heavier side of things. You

:41:32. > :41:37.would be unlucky if you got caught by those. That rain is very slowly

:41:38. > :41:42.to go away. It is working its way towards Norfolk. We are really stuck

:41:43. > :41:46.with that rain on the most counties of England, and a good part of

:41:47. > :41:51.Scotland well into the afternoon. Still mild. In the brightest part of

:41:52. > :42:00.the South. Not as not as warm as yesterday when we hit 20 degrees. --

:42:01. > :42:06.15, 16 Celsius in the brightest parts of the South. Planet spotting

:42:07. > :42:10.prospects, best chance eastern England, North West Scotland, and

:42:11. > :42:15.maybe Northern Ireland. Just look at where the sun is coming up, and

:42:16. > :42:18.power or two towards dawn. That band of rain tomorrow working its way to

:42:19. > :42:22.the east over most areas. It will linger over eastern England.

:42:23. > :42:26.Brighter skies following. Many places getting sunshine, certainly

:42:27. > :42:31.by the afternoon, and it is still technically mild. 15, 16 Celsius.

:42:32. > :42:36.That theme will continue into the weekend. Another weather front

:42:37. > :42:41.coming through, bringing another pulse of rain. A wet start England

:42:42. > :42:44.and Wales particularly on Friday. Some showers coming back into

:42:45. > :42:49.Northern Ireland. If anything, the temperatures are coming up. The

:42:50. > :42:53.winds from the south bringing in that mild air. That is a theme which

:42:54. > :42:58.should continue into the weekend. We should lose most of the rain. So a

:42:59. > :43:02.drier outlook. Staying pretty mild, temperatures around the mid teens at

:43:03. > :43:04.best. Some patchy fog overnight to look out for, but overall a decent

:43:05. > :43:09.weekend for getting out and about. I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:43:10. > :43:11.welcome to the programme, The young women with diabetes who

:43:12. > :43:17.are skipping insulin injections to lose weight - we'll hear about

:43:18. > :43:21.the side effects. Aid agencies' fears

:43:22. > :43:23.about the coming winter weather for migrants and refugees who are

:43:24. > :43:28.fleeing from the violence in Syria. And - the two police officers who

:43:29. > :43:31.risked their lives by deliberately driving their police car head-on

:43:32. > :43:46.into another car driving the wrong We only really had a split second

:43:47. > :43:54.when she came into view. I picked the police vehicle into her path.

:43:55. > :43:57.You say that so calmly. -- I put. Did it feel like it was a calm

:43:58. > :44:03.event? Surprisingly, yes. There are further claims that

:44:04. > :44:09.mandatory criminal court charges are encouraging innocent people

:44:10. > :44:11.to plead guilty to crimes. A ?150 fine is issued

:44:12. > :44:14.if someone pleads guilty to a criminal offence - but it can rise

:44:15. > :44:17.to ?1200 if they initially deny Canadian investigators say

:44:18. > :44:24.a whale watching boat that capsized - killing five British people -

:44:25. > :44:27.may have become unstable because the passengers had crowded

:44:28. > :44:33.on to one side of the deck. The boat sank near Tofino in

:44:34. > :44:35.British Columbia, on Sunday. A 27-year-old Australian

:44:36. > :44:41.man remains missing. Volkswagen has announced big losses

:44:42. > :44:44.- in its first figures since it admitted fitting software designed

:44:45. > :44:46.to cheat diesel emission tests. In the three months to September,

:44:47. > :44:48.it recorded an operating loss of two and a half billion pounds,

:44:49. > :44:51.after setting aside cash to cover David Cameron is to challenge claims

:44:52. > :45:02.by campaigners who want Britain to leave the European Union

:45:03. > :45:04.and adopt a looser relationship He is travelling to Iceland

:45:05. > :45:08.for a meeting of northern European Cancer Research UK says there's

:45:09. > :45:15.unacceptable variation between different parts of England

:45:16. > :45:18.in how quickly cancer is diagnosed. It says almost 20,000 cases

:45:19. > :45:20.could be caught earlier if all regions matched

:45:21. > :45:30.the performance of the best. Comedian Bob Mortimer has cancelled

:45:31. > :45:32.the first leg of a UK tour with comedy partner

:45:33. > :45:35.Vic Reeves after undergoing He was due to take to

:45:36. > :45:41.the stage alongside Reeves in Glasgow next month as part

:45:42. > :45:43.of a 25th anniversary show. Let's catch up with all

:45:44. > :45:53.the sport now. Further pressure has been heaped

:45:54. > :46:01.on Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho, after his side were dumped out

:46:02. > :46:03.of the League Cup last night, Media reports this week suggest that

:46:04. > :46:07.Chelsea's poor run of results, which leaves them just five points

:46:08. > :46:17.off the Premier League relegation My general situation is fantastic. I

:46:18. > :46:23.have a day off tomorrow. Fantastic family. I can sleep well every

:46:24. > :46:32.night. I am going to enjoy my day. And Thursday, 1 more day like I had

:46:33. > :46:37.in the last 15 years of my life. Honest, dedicated.

:46:38. > :46:40.Do you think the players are not with me? Do you think the players

:46:41. > :46:47.did not give everything to win the game? That is really sad because, it

:46:48. > :46:51.did not give everything to win the is not sad for me, I think it is sad

:46:52. > :46:53.for the players. I think it is a lack of respect to the players. Not

:46:54. > :46:57.to me. In your lack of respect to the players. Not

:46:58. > :47:05.everything. It is a bit strange lack of respect to the players. Not

:47:06. > :47:08.because when months ago, I won so many matches and I was champion of

:47:09. > :47:11.England and people were many matches and I was champion of

:47:12. > :47:15.there are things more important many matches and I was champion of

:47:16. > :47:28.the results, in this It now makes getting a result

:47:29. > :47:33.against Liverpool on Saturday all Onto an historic night in Glasgow

:47:34. > :47:35.for Britain's gymnasts,where the women's team won a world team final

:47:36. > :47:38.medal for the very first time. With GB lying in fourth place, Ellie

:47:39. > :47:41.Downie's superb vault saw them They'd previously never finished

:47:42. > :47:45.higher than 5th at a World Championships. Tears

:47:46. > :47:50.of joy all round there. Now, yesterday, London Irish rugby

:47:51. > :47:53.club announced they will play their "home" match against Saracens

:47:54. > :47:55.this season, Earlier, I spoke to

:47:56. > :48:06.their chief executive Bob Casey It is a challenge. New York is

:48:07. > :48:10.probably the largest sports city in the world so we feel it is a great

:48:11. > :48:14.opportunity to go. USA Rugby have invested heavily in and age

:48:15. > :48:21.grassroots rugby and we feel by working with them, we can grow the

:48:22. > :48:26.game. It is the fastest-growing team sport in America at the moment. The

:48:27. > :48:32.team is successful on the world stage. The 15 aside team got to the

:48:33. > :48:37.World Cup, he did not perform great, but you can see signs it is growing

:48:38. > :48:41.in the United States. What do Americans get about rugby,

:48:42. > :48:46.what are they like about the sports? I think they think we are a bit mad

:48:47. > :48:51.and we do not wear the helmet and putting like the NFL. It is a great

:48:52. > :48:57.spectator sport and the Premiership is one of the greatest in the world.

:48:58. > :49:00.They are excited about seeing a Premiership fixture, not a

:49:01. > :49:05.pre-season friendly. And in their own backyard. Around March, there is

:49:06. > :49:11.not much competition in terms of the other sports in America. We feel it

:49:12. > :49:16.is the right time. We believe the London Irish brand is very unique,

:49:17. > :49:20.is the right time. We believe the we are a home away from home for all

:49:21. > :49:23.nationalities and we feel we are in a great position to take our brand

:49:24. > :49:29.globally. That would not be a bad work trip

:49:30. > :49:30.abroad, I will have the headlines at 10:30 p.m..

:49:31. > :49:38.We're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

:49:39. > :49:46." we will bring you the latest news and sports and we will see your

:49:47. > :49:54.And, of course, you can watch the programme online wherever you

:49:55. > :49:57.and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

:49:58. > :49:59.by going to add topics and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.

:50:00. > :50:02.There's growing concern that an increasing number of young women

:50:03. > :50:09.with diabetes are skipping insulin injections to lose weight.

:50:10. > :50:12.It's known as diabulimia, but it's not an officially recognised mental

:50:13. > :50:16.It's most commons in girls with type 1 diabetes,

:50:17. > :50:19.which is where the body doesn't make its own insulin and can't control

:50:20. > :50:25.Diabetes UK estimates that up to a third of young women with

:50:26. > :50:32.In the UK, this works out at around 3,000 teenage girls.

:50:33. > :50:40.From loss of eyesight to kidney damage and organ failure.

:50:41. > :50:43.Lucy Travers and Zoe Hepburn have both experienced it.

:50:44. > :50:45.Jackie Fosbury is a diabetes psychotherapist at an NHS

:50:46. > :51:03.Lucy, how did you work out that stopping taking diabulimia could

:51:04. > :51:12.lead to weight loss? It was not so much a fact of working it out, I

:51:13. > :51:16.just innocently read in a diabetes book that a symptom of diabetes is

:51:17. > :51:23.weight loss -- stopping taking insulin. I was having issues with

:51:24. > :51:28.food, my image. I thought, what would happen if I did not take my

:51:29. > :51:37.insulin? Unfortunately, it spiralled. And what did happen? Like

:51:38. > :51:46.I said, I gradually began admitting more and more and more. It is a very

:51:47. > :51:54.slippery slope. So my body became weaker and weaker. From that point,

:51:55. > :52:01.it is harder to get out. Your RDA, my body was so malnourished -- body.

:52:02. > :52:05.I was severely ill. So to pull myself out of that downward spiral

:52:06. > :52:10.was impossible without outside help. Did those close to you and around

:52:11. > :52:16.you, did they know this was not right? They did, but I do not think

:52:17. > :52:23.there was enough understanding of what was going on. I think my family

:52:24. > :52:29.were frustrated, they just thought, please, take your insulin. And in

:52:30. > :52:36.terms of my diabetes team, they were of the same opinion. Just increased

:52:37. > :52:43.this dose. But for me, mentally, it was not that straightforward. Can

:52:44. > :52:51.you explain why? It was to do with my body image as well. Because the

:52:52. > :52:56.lack of insulin was causing me to lose weight and it is that fear,

:52:57. > :53:03.like somebody with anorexia who fears food and gaining that weight.

:53:04. > :53:07.I feared taking my insulin again to look after myself and make myself

:53:08. > :53:14.healthy, because I feared gaining the weight back that I had lost.

:53:15. > :53:22.When you realised you were losing your site, tell us about that. It

:53:23. > :53:29.was about 18 months ago -- 18 months from the beginning. I was struggling

:53:30. > :53:33.and I was in sixth form at the time. I was struggling to see the

:53:34. > :53:40.blackboard and I went to the opticians. He referred me and I

:53:41. > :53:49.ended up at the type clinic at my local hospital. They told me I had

:53:50. > :53:56.cataracts in both eyes. As a direct result of not taking insulin? Yes.

:53:57. > :54:01.Did the medical professionals around you know what was going on and what

:54:02. > :54:08.you were doing and were they recognising it? There was

:54:09. > :54:15.physically, they knew I was not my insulin. There was no understanding

:54:16. > :54:24.as to why. It is like with my diabetes specialist, the link could

:54:25. > :54:26.not be made because with the eating disorder and eating disorder

:54:27. > :54:32.specialists, they could not see the link with my diabetes. I think I was

:54:33. > :54:38.telling them and I was saying, I am struggling, I do not know what to

:54:39. > :54:43.do. It felt like none of them had the power to help me in my recovery.

:54:44. > :54:50.I understand. Zoe Timmers thank you for being patient. Tell us about you

:54:51. > :54:56.as a 14-year-old girl and how you felt about your weight at that time.

:54:57. > :55:02.When I was 14, I put on a lot of weight and I noticed it and school

:55:03. > :55:08.people noticed it as well. So I knew from being tired rhetoric that I

:55:09. > :55:13.could lose weight and it would come off quick -- being diabetic. If I

:55:14. > :55:18.carried on eating but I did not take the insulin, it would not absorb the

:55:19. > :55:24.carbohydrate. And twice coming your hospitalised because of what you

:55:25. > :55:29.were doing? -- and twice, you were hospitalised. I ended up collapsing

:55:30. > :55:33.and I was in a coma for a week. I woke up and I had to learn how to

:55:34. > :55:40.talk and to walk and stick eat again. When I was 22, and Christmas,

:55:41. > :55:49.I ended up the same way, but not as bad, still in intensive care. Who

:55:50. > :55:54.did you turn to for help to acknowledge this was a mental health

:55:55. > :56:00.condition? I ended up in the eating disorders clinic twice for anorexia.

:56:01. > :56:06.That did not really help. It is only recently I have been told if I carry

:56:07. > :56:11.on with the way I am going, I will not be able to have children when I

:56:12. > :56:17.am older. That has put things in perspective because that is what I

:56:18. > :56:26.want. Jackie, do you come across, do you speak regularly to women who are

:56:27. > :56:34.suffering from diabulimia? Very regularly. We have only just started

:56:35. > :56:38.to use the term. I have been working with people with diabetes as a

:56:39. > :56:42.psychotherapist for 25 years and women with diabetes, it is a risk

:56:43. > :56:49.factor for developing eating disorders. But there is an estimate

:56:50. > :56:54.a third of them do not take insulin to keep their weight down and they

:56:55. > :56:59.develop diabetes complications. I run a small service in Brighton, it

:57:00. > :57:03.is closed because we have too many patients referred and we cannot meet

:57:04. > :57:08.the need. We, cross patients like this all the time and they are

:57:09. > :57:13.depressed. They have other psychological problems, depression

:57:14. > :57:17.and anxiety also. Complicated patients to treat. If it was

:57:18. > :57:20.recognised as a specific condition, what difference would that make in

:57:21. > :57:27.terms of treating people like Lucy and Zoe? I think it makes a big

:57:28. > :57:35.difference because the patients like the term because it recognises that

:57:36. > :57:40.there is a medical problem. That is the diabetes and the complications

:57:41. > :57:46.and the way in which you can misuse insulin to keep your weight down.

:57:47. > :57:52.And there is a mental health and emotional condition. And it has to

:57:53. > :57:57.be treated. I work in diabetes centres across the country. They do

:57:58. > :58:02.not know what to do with these patients. We need more

:58:03. > :58:06.psychotherapists in diabetes centres to help with these problems.

:58:07. > :58:10.Otherwise, the patients get sent out to mental health trusts and they do

:58:11. > :58:17.not know anything about diabetes. That is interesting. This Twitter

:58:18. > :58:21.message says, a terrifying number of women skip insulin to control their

:58:22. > :58:25.weight with potentially disastrous results, and often having an eating

:58:26. > :58:28.disorder and diabetes means you fall through the cracks of the services.

:58:29. > :58:36.That is what you are saying. Absolutely correct. We have been

:58:37. > :58:42.campaigning for years. Now we are commissioning health services and we

:58:43. > :58:51.are bidding for services, it is very important to have a specific term

:58:52. > :58:56.because we are asking for financial help for diabulimic patients. And I

:58:57. > :59:00.think most patients with diabetes like to be treated in the diabetes

:59:01. > :59:08.centre. They want integrated care. And unless we have that term, that

:59:09. > :59:12.definition, our patients either will not be treated correctly in the

:59:13. > :59:19.diabetes centre because the diabetes stuff normally, they are amazing and

:59:20. > :59:23.know what is going on but I do not have the psychological skills. So

:59:24. > :59:27.the patient goes to an eating disorder service, a general mental

:59:28. > :59:30.health team, and they know nothing about diabetes and how the patient

:59:31. > :59:39.is manipulating their weight. Thank you.

:59:40. > :59:47.A couple of comments here. Natasha tweets, I did that, I almost

:59:48. > :59:53.died. I was less than one hour from multi-organ failure, aged 40. It is

:59:54. > :59:56.not just young girls. Sarah on Twitter says, thank you for

:59:57. > :59:59.highlighting this. Thank you for coming on the

:00:00. > :00:03.programme. Get in touch if you have the

:00:04. > :00:07.relevant experience and we will look at your messages.

:00:08. > :00:10.Concern from aid agencies about how migrants and refugees, who are

:00:11. > :00:13.fleeing from the violence in Syria, will cope as winter closes in.

:00:14. > :00:16.David Cameron's off to Iceland later today to continue pushing his case

:00:17. > :00:33.Is this a change of tack to? Yes, and it feels as if the

:00:34. > :00:40.referendum campaign is picking up the pace. We've been used to David

:00:41. > :00:44.Cameron talking about renegotiating the relationship with the European

:00:45. > :00:57.Union. This has to happen before the end of 20 -- 2017. He is attacking a

:00:58. > :01:07.different way. Some people who say that Britain should leave should do

:01:08. > :01:13.it in the way that Norway has done. Norway is not subject to a lot of

:01:14. > :01:18.the rules and relegation -- regulations we have to. But David

:01:19. > :01:21.Cameron says they do that for a high price. They don't have voting

:01:22. > :01:22.rights, for example, not a lot going for them, according to David

:01:23. > :01:29.Cameron. He's talking about this for them, according to David

:01:30. > :01:33.a way he hasn't before. It is a sense of his frustrations. The

:01:34. > :01:38.campaign is already underway. We have the income pay now be out

:01:39. > :01:46.campaigning going. -- in campaign and the out campaign going on. He's

:01:47. > :01:50.talking about why come on this front, Britain should stay in the

:01:51. > :01:56.European Union. You might not know the answer to

:01:57. > :02:03.this, has he got anywhere on this negotiation? -- he's talking about

:02:04. > :02:08.why, on this front, Britain should stay in the European Union. It is an

:02:09. > :02:11.uphill battle. Lots of European leaders are struggling to understand

:02:12. > :02:14.what he wants beyond the broad principles. In other words,

:02:15. > :02:20.increasing the power of national parliaments, removing Britain from

:02:21. > :02:24.the EU commitment to get closer to the union. He wants to restrict

:02:25. > :02:29.migration to the UK by putting caps on benefits. He's been talking about

:02:30. > :02:34.these things for a while. But in terms of the specifics, we are in

:02:35. > :02:38.the dark. A lot of people within Europe are, too. We should get a

:02:39. > :02:42.better idea next month. Things are picking up. A big EU summit is

:02:43. > :02:46.happening in December where we expect David Cameron to put a list

:02:47. > :02:49.of demands on the table for the first time. Number ten have said

:02:50. > :02:53.they are going to sketch those out in a letter which will be published

:02:54. > :02:58.next month. We will get a clearer idea in the next few weeks exactly

:02:59. > :03:03.what they are looking for. This is a negotiation. Number ten's view is

:03:04. > :03:07.they would be mad to be too public about what they are asking for. At

:03:08. > :03:11.the same time they are very conscious that many are sceptical

:03:12. > :03:17.about Europe in the Tory party, in particular in Westminster, who are

:03:18. > :03:19.waiting to pounce and say that the renegotiation has been a failure.

:03:20. > :03:25.They are keeping cards close to their chest.

:03:26. > :03:28.PMQ 's today. Would you expected to be dominated by tax credits?

:03:29. > :03:33.I would be amazed if it wasn't. Jeremy Corbyn has said please

:03:34. > :03:38.rethink, George Osborne, if you do we won't jump and down and make

:03:39. > :03:42.political capital about this. However, I think after the event on

:03:43. > :03:45.Monday, and the fact this has been thrown back to George Osborne and he

:03:46. > :03:53.has got to rethink his plan and find a way to help, compensate people who

:03:54. > :03:59.would be missing out because of the cuts, I would be amazed if it wasn't

:04:00. > :04:07.mentioned. Thanks very much.

:04:08. > :04:10.This coming winter could be the worst yet for migrants and refugees

:04:11. > :04:13.who are fleeing from the violence in Syria - that's according to aid

:04:14. > :04:17.This year, an unprecedented number of refugees fled to Europe to escape

:04:18. > :04:19.the fighting, but the cold weather could be

:04:20. > :04:23.That's because refugees will be at risk, not just on their journey

:04:24. > :04:27.through Eastern Europe, but also, in the vast refugee camps in the

:04:28. > :04:32.likes of Turkey and Jordan, where temperatures are already falling.

:04:33. > :04:34.As we head into November, the temperatures have already started

:04:35. > :04:46.The number of refugees being housed in countries like Lebanon and Turkey

:04:47. > :04:56.And here are the average minimum temperatures for November.

:04:57. > :04:59.It's eight degrees in Jordan but come January, that goes down,

:05:00. > :05:13.We can talk to a volunteer who has been helping out in Greece. Welcome

:05:14. > :05:16.to the programme. What are the conditions like for the people you

:05:17. > :05:25.have been helping? Extremely difficult. It has been an eye-opener

:05:26. > :05:29.for me, having been on the ground for two weeks and witnessed the

:05:30. > :05:37.scale of suffering of the people. It is horrendous, the situation. There

:05:38. > :05:40.is no... What is the word, there is no control, no organisation that is

:05:41. > :05:45.handling the situation on the ground. It takes small charities,

:05:46. > :05:51.like ourselves, who are doing most of the work on the ground. The big

:05:52. > :05:54.charities are not visible. The biggest one I saw over there was

:05:55. > :06:00.save the children, other than that there were not any large

:06:01. > :06:06.organisations visible. -- Save The Children. What are the conditions

:06:07. > :06:15.like us to Mark one example, I saw women giving birth on the ground. --

:06:16. > :06:20.what are the conditions? The camp is like a prison. You will find all

:06:21. > :06:24.sorts of situations. Dirt, filth, there is no proper sanitation, no

:06:25. > :06:29.toilets. If there are toilets they are extremely filthy, overflowing,

:06:30. > :06:34.and people are defecating and you relating on the ground in the camp.

:06:35. > :06:39.They have no other area to go to. It is not in a localised residential

:06:40. > :06:47.area, this camp is in the middle of a forest. It is very difficult to

:06:48. > :06:53.get to. Initially when the refugees come they land on the coast. I have

:06:54. > :06:58.been to the coast. Most of the people come at night. These people

:06:59. > :07:06.have been forced into boats, given fake life jackets. What do you mean

:07:07. > :07:09.fake? We have life jackets, everybody is used to seeing them on

:07:10. > :07:14.boats and ships. When they come from the Turkish side they are forced at

:07:15. > :07:18.gunpoint into these boats. Money is taken off them. They are forced into

:07:19. > :07:23.the boat and told to put these life jackets on. These life jackets are

:07:24. > :07:27.filled with foam. They are not proper ones. If somebody was to fall

:07:28. > :07:33.into the water, you could imagine, like a sponge, the phone absorbs the

:07:34. > :07:40.water and it becomes heavy and drags the person underneath. Nobody has an

:07:41. > :07:44.idea that they are fake. When you say they are forced on, they have

:07:45. > :07:50.travelled to the coast to get onto those boats. They've paid money. How

:07:51. > :07:55.are they forced on? These are smugglers. They are not treated with

:07:56. > :08:01.the most humble of effort. They are forced. They pay their money, told

:08:02. > :08:04.they will be taken, and they are forced on at gunpoint. You can hear

:08:05. > :08:08.from the people, they will tell you that they had no choice. Whether the

:08:09. > :08:12.weather was good or bad, they were forced onto the boats, they were

:08:13. > :08:21.pushed out, somebody is told how to run the motor, and away they go. If

:08:22. > :08:25.they survive it is their luck. Is it right that you yourself have plucked

:08:26. > :08:31.children from the water? Yes indeed. While we were there,

:08:32. > :08:35.families in panic when the motor is switched off, it is dark and I

:08:36. > :08:40.cannot see anything. They are afraid. They can hear our voices.

:08:41. > :08:44.The family 's panic, through their children into the water because the

:08:45. > :08:48.boat starts going back out again and they think they will get left

:08:49. > :08:52.behind. They threw their children in the belief that somebody might save

:08:53. > :08:55.them. In their believe, if they float back into the sea without an

:08:56. > :08:58.engine they are not going to survive, so they throw their

:08:59. > :09:05.children into the water. We step is deep as we can. We go as far as we

:09:06. > :09:12.can before we feel an arm, a lead, whatever you can, and we pull them

:09:13. > :09:18.out. -- leg. We have pulled children out from the water. For some people

:09:19. > :09:21.that is preferable to being killed by shrapnel in their hometown in

:09:22. > :09:29.Syria, is that what they say to you? Basically. They say that the

:09:30. > :09:33.conflict is not something of their understanding or doing. They are

:09:34. > :09:37.being bombed, shot at. All sorts of groups fighting in their country.

:09:38. > :09:42.They have no idea why this is taking place. They want peace and comfort

:09:43. > :09:47.for their family. They want to lead a normal life. Most people tell you,

:09:48. > :09:53.if the situation gets better we will return. But for now, we are being

:09:54. > :09:58.massacred on the ground, and we cannot watch our children and family

:09:59. > :10:03.members die everyday. They need help. They go to the first place

:10:04. > :10:08.they find sanctuary. I would like to talk about your motivation. Some

:10:09. > :10:15.people watching may remember you from the riots back in England in

:10:16. > :10:20.2011. You lost your son in the riots. You appealed for calm after

:10:21. > :10:28.the death of your son. We are just going to play a clip of that, if we

:10:29. > :10:34.may, right now. Step forward if you want to lose your children.

:10:35. > :10:40.Otherwise, calm down, and go home. How has that lead to you

:10:41. > :10:44.volunteering and helping people in parts of Greece right now? That was

:10:45. > :10:48.a small clip. If you look at the whole clip, look at the people

:10:49. > :10:53.around me, I was given a tremendous amount of support by my community.

:10:54. > :10:56.And the people of this country. They were putting their arms around me

:10:57. > :11:02.and supporting me. That support was phenomenal. I look at these people

:11:03. > :11:07.today, it is a humanitarian cause, and all they are asking for is a bit

:11:08. > :11:12.of support. And little bits of humanity. What I got I am trying to

:11:13. > :11:17.give back to those people. Thank you for talking to us this morning.

:11:18. > :11:20.Bob Mortimer has cancelled the first leg of a UK tour with

:11:21. > :11:22.Vic Reeves after having a triple heart bypass operation.

:11:23. > :11:27.Let's speak to our Entertainment Correspondent, Colin Paterson.

:11:28. > :11:36.Tell us more. This is a big shock story which

:11:37. > :11:40.broke overnight. Bob Mortimer announcing he had triple bypass

:11:41. > :11:45.heart surgery. This is such a shock because Reeves and Mortimer are

:11:46. > :11:50.about to embark on their first tour in 20 years. The warm up gig was

:11:51. > :11:56.supposed to be in whole, and then it would continue in Glasgow. -- in

:11:57. > :11:59.Hull. But all of the gigs before Christmas have been cancelled

:12:00. > :12:04.because of the news. Presumably he had some kind of

:12:05. > :12:07.warning about this operation? They had been doing warm up nights.

:12:08. > :12:15.The show was going to be a greatest hits show. 25 years since they

:12:16. > :12:18.The show was going to be a greatest their first show, when Big Night Out

:12:19. > :12:26.was on TV. They were going to do their favourite characters. It was

:12:27. > :12:28.going to be a real celebration of their whole career. Something they

:12:29. > :12:36.were both looking forward to enormously. The Reeves has -- Vic

:12:37. > :12:40.Reeves has spoken this morning, said his thanks to the surgeon, and he

:12:41. > :12:44.has said that Bob Mortimer is fixed! CHUCKLES

:12:45. > :12:50.Will people get their money back, will it be rescheduled?

:12:51. > :12:54.The PR has said that people who have tickets to these shows will get a

:12:55. > :12:58.refund. There are no plans to reschedule. You will have to ask for

:12:59. > :13:02.the refund. But the real hope is that Bob Mortimer is well enough in

:13:03. > :13:07.January when the second leg of the tour is going to start in Leeds on

:13:08. > :13:14.the 30th of January. We hope that he will be well enough to start the

:13:15. > :13:17.tour, with the second half of the tour taking place. If you have

:13:18. > :13:21.tickets for before Christmas, ask for your money back, if you have

:13:22. > :13:25.tickets for the New Year, hold onto them because there is a good chance

:13:26. > :13:30.you will see Bob Mortimer shouting at a man with a stick!

:13:31. > :13:35.Thanks very much. Bob Mortimer, get well soon. The main news this

:13:36. > :13:37.There are further claims that mandatory criminal court charges

:13:38. > :13:39.are encouraging innocent people to plead guilty to crimes.

:13:40. > :13:42.A ?150 charge is issued if someone pleads guilty to

:13:43. > :13:45.a criminal offence, but it can rise to ?1,200 if they initially deny

:13:46. > :14:05.Ben Summerskill from the Criminal Justice Alliance has said it is not

:14:06. > :14:10.worth the risk for some people. If you are in a situation where people

:14:11. > :14:13.are under that sort of pressure, then it isn't justice because they

:14:14. > :14:16.are being pressured in order to plead in a way that isn't actually

:14:17. > :14:17.true to what they believe to have happened.

:14:18. > :14:19.Canadian investigators have given their first explanation

:14:20. > :14:22.of why a whale-watching tour boat capsized off the coast of Vancouver

:14:23. > :14:27.They say that the boat was unstable because most of the passengers were

:14:28. > :14:30.standing on the same side when a wave hit the vessel.

:14:31. > :14:33.Officials say many more people would have died had it not been for

:14:34. > :14:42.Here's our correspondent, James Cook.

:14:43. > :14:45.The Leviathan II is still partially submerged, but it has now been moved

:14:46. > :14:51.nearer the shore as investigators piece together what happened.

:14:52. > :14:55.They have been speaking to survivors who have given their accounts.

:14:56. > :14:57.of how most passengers were on one side of the upper deck

:14:58. > :15:01.when the boat was swamped by a wave from the other side.

:15:02. > :15:04.The sea conditions were such that a wave approached the vessel

:15:05. > :15:11.We know the vessel broached and then capsized.

:15:12. > :15:13.We're also able to confirm that one life raft deployed.

:15:14. > :15:20.The survivors managed to fire two hand flares and a rocket, sending

:15:21. > :15:29.We got there within not even ten minutes, and we found all

:15:30. > :15:36.There was at least three or four boats ahead of us picking up the

:15:37. > :15:43.The five British people who drowned have been identified as 76-year-old

:15:44. > :15:48.Jack Slater, who was living in Toronto, 29-year-old Katie Taylor,

:15:49. > :15:50.based in Whistler, Nigel Hooker, 63, from Southampton, David Thomas, 50,

:15:51. > :15:59.and his 18-year-old son Stephen, both from Wiltshire.

:16:00. > :16:02.The search for the body of an Australian man has been continuing.

:16:03. > :16:12.Some survivors remain here in Tofino,

:16:13. > :16:14.where they have been interviewed by investigators. Relatives

:16:15. > :16:17.of those who died have also arrived, and this tiny community is

:16:18. > :16:24.Volkswagen has announced big losses, in its first figures since it

:16:25. > :16:31.admitted fitting software designed to cheat diesel emission tests.

:16:32. > :16:33.In the three months to September, it recorded an operating loss

:16:34. > :16:35.of ?2.5 billion, after setting aside cash to cover

:16:36. > :16:48.David Cameron is to challenge claims by campaigners who want Britain to

:16:49. > :16:50.leave the European Union and adopt a looser relationship

:16:51. > :16:53.He is travelling to Iceland for a meeting of northern European

:16:54. > :16:57.Cancer Research UK says there's unacceptable variation

:16:58. > :16:59.between different parts of England in how quickly cancer is diagnosed.

:17:00. > :17:02.It says almost twenty thousand cases could be caught earlier

:17:03. > :17:08.if all regions matched the performance of the best.

:17:09. > :17:10.Comedian Bob Mortimer has cancelled the first leg

:17:11. > :17:13.of a UK tour with comedy partner Vic Reeves after undergoing

:17:14. > :17:18.He was due to take to the stage alongside Reeves

:17:19. > :17:20.in Glasgow next month as part of a 25th anniversary show.

:17:21. > :17:30.Vic Reeves announced that up is fixed!

:17:31. > :17:33.Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:17:34. > :17:37.The pressure is increasing on Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho,

:17:38. > :17:43.This time knocked out of the League Cup by Stoke.

:17:44. > :17:46.A bad night for Arsenal too, thrashed 3-0 by Sheffield Wednesday,

:17:47. > :17:50.Injuries to Theo Walcott and Alex Oxlade Chamberlain rubbed salt

:17:51. > :17:54.into Arsene Wenger's wounds. Britain's gymnasts will be hoping

:17:55. > :17:56.that last night's women's team bronze can spur them

:17:57. > :18:03.Ellie Downie's vault helped them win their first ever medal at the

:18:04. > :18:06.Britain's Richard Whitehead smashed his own T42 200m world

:18:07. > :18:08.record to reach the World Championship final in Doha.

:18:09. > :18:10.Whitehead crossed the line in 24.10 seconds, beating the previous record

:18:11. > :18:18.The Chief Executive of London Irish Rugby Club, Bob Casey,

:18:19. > :18:21.is optimistic about growing the sport in America, following the

:18:22. > :18:28.announcement that the club will play Saracens in New York next season.

:18:29. > :18:30.It's the first time a Premiership game has been played overseas.

:18:31. > :18:37.And rugby is the fastest growing team sport in the US.

:18:38. > :18:43.That is all the sport for this morning. Thank you.

:18:44. > :18:48.Hundreds of people are due to gather outside Parliament support of a

:18:49. > :18:50.Royal Marine convicted of murdering an Afghan insurgent. The rally has

:18:51. > :18:53.been set up by supporters of Sergeant Alexander Blackman, who was

:18:54. > :18:56.given a life sentence in 2013 after being convicted of murdering

:18:57. > :18:59.the wounded Afghan captive in Helmand province four years ago.

:19:00. > :19:03.He argued that he thought the man he shot was already dead.

:19:04. > :19:07.Jonathan Beale has been looking at the case.

:19:08. > :19:14.The report contains strong language. A proud Royal Marine who had done

:19:15. > :19:17.several tours of Iraq and Afghanistan and once had a promising

:19:18. > :19:22.future. But it went wrong here in Helmand

:19:23. > :19:27.Province in 2011. A tour in which his unit experienced fierce combat

:19:28. > :19:33.from a brutal enemy, in which he had become infamous as Marine are, to

:19:34. > :19:37.protect his identity. He is a man who pulled the trigger -- the

:19:38. > :19:41.trigger on a wounded Taliban fighter who had just become his prisoner.

:19:42. > :19:45.Filmed from a camera fitted to the helmet of comrades and eventually

:19:46. > :19:49.discovered by the police. The video has been played in court

:19:50. > :19:53.but only these stills have been released to the public. Along with

:19:54. > :19:57.the audio in which first Marine a's troll discussed what to do with the

:19:58. > :20:22.insurgent. -- troll.

:20:23. > :20:29.Then hidden from the view of the British Army helicopter, and a

:20:30. > :20:34.surveillance balloon, Marine A decides to take matters into his own

:20:35. > :20:39.hands. Alexander Blackman shoots the already injured insurgent who

:20:40. > :20:45.moments earlier could be heard struggling for breath.

:20:46. > :20:50.At his court-martial, Marine A described it as a moment of madness.

:20:51. > :20:56.He claimed the insurgent was already dead. But a panel of military he is

:20:57. > :21:01.convicted him of murder. On appeal, that conviction was upheld, although

:21:02. > :21:05.his sentence was reduced. But his wife has led a campaign, now backed

:21:06. > :21:09.by the Daily Mail, to have him released. They say he is not a

:21:10. > :21:14.criminal, but a Casualty of war. Is your husband a murderer?

:21:15. > :21:23.Absolutely not. No way, no shape, no form. Just categorically no.

:21:24. > :21:26.Supporters of Al Blackman have raised nearly ?1 million to

:21:27. > :21:30.challenge the conviction, they argue he should never have been convicted

:21:31. > :21:36.of murder, it was manslaughter at worst. But for now, he remains

:21:37. > :21:37.behind bars, still guilty -- still guilty of murdering a Taliban

:21:38. > :21:40.prisoner. Chris Terrill is a journalist

:21:41. > :21:47.and filmmaker, who was embedded with Sgt Blackman's

:21:48. > :21:56.unit when the killing took place. The show of support today, who'd you

:21:57. > :22:07.want to take notice of that? At Parliament today. I am not myself

:22:08. > :22:12.a flag-waving campaigner, I am a journalist observing this taking

:22:13. > :22:16.place. I think the organisers of the campaign wants to reach out to the

:22:17. > :22:24.public. But also, Parliament. And the hope is that the new defence

:22:25. > :22:31.team is keen that the criminal case -- the criminal cases review Ward

:22:32. > :22:38.looks at this again on an appeal. They're already has been one appeal.

:22:39. > :22:42.-- that already has. There was an appeal in the Royal Courts of

:22:43. > :22:47.Justice and the original ten year sentence was reduced to eight years.

:22:48. > :22:51.There has been a feeling there should you more weight given to

:22:52. > :22:56.mitigation. And there is a difficulty in applying peace time

:22:57. > :23:01.judgment to actions of people in war. There is a very real feeling

:23:02. > :23:04.and I have sympathy with this, that the murder verdict should be

:23:05. > :23:11.considered, we considered as manslaughter. You are embedded with

:23:12. > :23:16.his unit, what was it like at the time and the conditions and

:23:17. > :23:22.potential pressure on those in his unit? Yes, it is difficult for

:23:23. > :23:26.anybody who has not been on the front line, especially this part of

:23:27. > :23:33.Helmand reverence to understand what it is like for these men. This was

:23:34. > :23:37.in the North, one of the most war-ravaged places in Afghanistan in

:23:38. > :23:44.2011. It was referred to as the most dangerous square mile in the world.

:23:45. > :23:49.It was extraordinary. The daily temperature was about 55 degrees.

:23:50. > :23:53.The men were on patrol twice a day, 5 hours at a time. With heavy

:23:54. > :23:59.equipment. As well as the temperature. That itself is very

:24:00. > :24:10.debilitating. Also, the place was riddled with insurgents and IED is.

:24:11. > :24:15.Randomly placed. They called it Afghan roulette, you never quite

:24:16. > :24:20.knew if your next step would be your last. That will tell on anybody's

:24:21. > :24:25.psychology. I do not care if you are a man on the street or an elite

:24:26. > :24:31.soldier like a Royal Marine. I always said the Royal Marines and

:24:32. > :24:35.many of our front-line troops, they are just ordinary people doing

:24:36. > :24:40.extraordinary things. The nature of front-line warfare is very

:24:41. > :24:43.mind-bending. I felt that myself. Ordinary people doing extraordinary

:24:44. > :24:48.things, you say, ordinary people who have been trained for many months,

:24:49. > :24:52.if not years, to cope in such conditions and to do a job

:24:53. > :25:00.nationally. Yes, and let's be clear about this,

:25:01. > :25:05.99.9% of the troops did do that. In this particular case, Sgt Blackman

:25:06. > :25:10.overstepped the mark and he was the first to admit he did wrong. He is

:25:11. > :25:15.ashamed of what he did. I am not sure why he did it. I have visited

:25:16. > :25:19.him in prison and we still talk about it. He looks back at the Al

:25:20. > :25:24.Blackman that he was on the front line, a different man to the Al

:25:25. > :25:30.Blackman before he went out to walk into the Al Blackman that is now

:25:31. > :25:36.sitting in jail. That is the point. We cannot second-guess war. It does

:25:37. > :25:40.things to you and you have to make split-second decisions under

:25:41. > :25:45.enormous pressure and sometimes, you get it wrong. It is the same in

:25:46. > :25:52.sport. We have just seen the Rugby World Cup. Situations where people

:25:53. > :25:57.have overstepped the mark and the rules of engagement. The stakes are

:25:58. > :26:03.a lot of in battle but still we have rules of engagement which are

:26:04. > :26:07.difficult to follow. Yes. I think people watching would understand

:26:08. > :26:13.that. However, we do have audio that was released. Of history, we were

:26:14. > :26:18.not there and we take into account what you have said about the

:26:19. > :26:22.split-second decision and the conditions and the heat and the

:26:23. > :26:28.trauma of thinking at any moment, somebody wants to kill you. But Al

:26:29. > :26:34.Blackman said, anybody want to do first aid on this idiot? His

:26:35. > :26:37.colleague says, I will put one in his head, if you want. Does that not

:26:38. > :26:43.suggest they thought this man was alive was, when they first got to

:26:44. > :26:49.the man, there was clear evidence he was alive and Marine A knew he was

:26:50. > :26:56.alive and he wanted to keep him alive. He could have been an

:26:57. > :27:00.informant. There was a IEDs factory nearby and they wanted information,

:27:01. > :27:05.it suited everybody to keep him alive. Again, what Al Blackman has

:27:06. > :27:12.said to me, he genuinely thought the man had died subsequently. And that

:27:13. > :27:24.when he shot him, he was not really dead. Do you hold out hope he will

:27:25. > :27:32.be released? Hand on heart, I do not believe this campaign, as amazing as

:27:33. > :27:37.it is, it is a very spontaneous outpouring of emotion from a lot of

:27:38. > :27:43.people, public and military. I do not think he will be released. Think

:27:44. > :27:47.perhaps the best people and hope for is a reduction of the sentence

:27:48. > :27:52.further. And that perhaps the original murder verdict could be

:27:53. > :27:56.changed to manslaughter. That is totally depends on whether the case

:27:57. > :28:06.goes to the Commission. Thank you very much. Chris was

:28:07. > :28:13.embedded with Al Blackman's unit. Thank you for your comments. We do

:28:14. > :28:17.get so many comments on Twitter. It is ridiculous, totally ridiculous

:28:18. > :28:19.that you can send a man to war as a trained killer and prosecute him for

:28:20. > :28:25.killing in the wrong way. This comments says, war or no war,

:28:26. > :28:30.Sg Blackman killed the guy in cold blood. Richard says, if Sgt Blackman

:28:31. > :28:35.had killed the terrorist from a mile away, he would be applauded. Net

:28:36. > :28:42.result, one dead terrorists, that is fine by me.

:28:43. > :28:47.Evil -- he is a walk on zero and he say so himself. He is lucky to have

:28:48. > :28:49.such a short sentence -- war criminal.

:28:50. > :28:53.He broke the Geneva Convention, he knew what he was doing, it was a

:28:54. > :28:56.murderous act. If you stand around discussing the

:28:57. > :28:59.least obvious entry point for killing a prisoner of war, that is

:29:00. > :29:04.murder. And finally, Alan says, if this

:29:05. > :29:06.Royal Marines had been an American Marine, they would have given him a

:29:07. > :29:12.medal. Thank you. Keep those coming.

:29:13. > :29:14.Volkswagen has announced big losses, in its first figures

:29:15. > :29:22.since the scandal over rigged emissions tests broke last month.

:29:23. > :29:31.Our business correspondence? I was nodding to the gallery. Call me

:29:32. > :29:40.whatever you want! How big are the losses? They it. We were expecting

:29:41. > :29:40.losses given the scandal. I have everything in dollars, I do

:29:41. > :29:54.apologise. Volkswagen, their last quarter, they

:29:55. > :30:02.report profits and losses every quarter. They have lost $3.85

:30:03. > :30:09.billion. That is a lot in Stirling, even I know that. One of the reasons

:30:10. > :30:14.is Volkswagen has set aside nearly $7.5 billion to cover the scandal.

:30:15. > :30:20.-- sterling. They are hoping. They are hoping that will cover the

:30:21. > :30:23.fines, they are hoping that will cover the cost of the recall and the

:30:24. > :30:29.fix of the engines, the so-called dodgy software engines, legal

:30:30. > :30:34.action, as well. There will be a lot from around the world from consumers

:30:35. > :30:43.who bought books like in. But it is probably nowhere near enough money.

:30:44. > :30:50.-- who bought Volkswagens. It could be closer to $8 billion -- it could

:30:51. > :30:58.be closer to $18 billion. The BP crisis cost ?35 billion, if you

:30:59. > :31:04.remember. The cost of Volkswagen could dwarf that figure. How have

:31:05. > :31:12.they come back? They have a strong balance sheet. The share price in

:31:13. > :31:17.Frankfurt is actually up. People think they are now dealing with it

:31:18. > :31:22.and getting to grips with it. Spot on. Investors happy so far. Those

:31:23. > :31:26.numbers could highlight the fact that its core balance sheet is

:31:27. > :31:29.pretty strong. On the one hand it shows the strength, on the other

:31:30. > :31:32.hand we are starting to see the early indications of what the costs

:31:33. > :31:39.will be over this particular scandal. Their biggest mission will

:31:40. > :31:47.be to rebuild the trust which has been lost. Volkswagen Will still

:31:48. > :31:50.sell. They sold 10.1 million vehicles last year. They think they

:31:51. > :31:59.will do that again this year. We shall see. Thanks very much. The

:32:00. > :32:03.coming winter could be the worst yet for migrants and refugees fleeing

:32:04. > :32:05.from the violence in Syria. Here is a reminder of how this crisis has

:32:06. > :33:39.been unfolding. Another highways pushed the boat

:33:40. > :33:40.over. I tried to save my wife and children. I couldn't. One by one

:33:41. > :34:15.they died. -- hi wave. Let's talk to Lily Caprani, Deputy

:34:16. > :34:18.Executive Director for Unicef UK, who got back from the Zaatari camp

:34:19. > :34:30.in Jordan just over 48 hours ago. Could you describe the camp. It is

:34:31. > :34:37.vast, isn't it? It is. It is so big. It is in the middle of the desert. A

:34:38. > :34:41.remote location. You walk in and suddenly it hits you, thousands and

:34:42. > :34:46.thousands of people trying to live their lives in incredibly difficult

:34:47. > :34:50.circumstances. There are now 80,000 there. Many are very small children.

:34:51. > :34:54.Little children who do not know any different. And teenagers who have

:34:55. > :34:58.lived through an incredibly traumatic time and needing a lot of

:34:59. > :35:05.support. The conditions in the camp at the moment? It is a dusty desert.

:35:06. > :35:09.It is dirty. A lot of work goes into making sure things are clean, making

:35:10. > :35:14.sure people have clean water, health care, and food. All the basics

:35:15. > :35:17.provided, which is what some charities are doing. But you cannot

:35:18. > :35:20.protect everybody from the elements. When we were there we got trapped in

:35:21. > :35:23.a sandstorm. We could hide from When we were there we got trapped in

:35:24. > :35:27.But when we went into peoples When we were there we got trapped in

:35:28. > :35:33.and they are just open containers, really thought they were totally

:35:34. > :35:38.exposed. When winter comes there isn't anywhere to hide from

:35:39. > :35:40.you know. We were saying, it could you know. We were saying, it could

:35:41. > :35:46.get close to zero by January. I you know. We were saying, it could

:35:47. > :35:50.would -- I was talking to some people, and they say it is not

:35:51. > :35:56.unusual for it to get as low as minus five Celsius. But they think

:35:57. > :36:03.it will get even colder this year. With Syrians fleeing, crossing over

:36:04. > :36:05.into Europe, they are facing a really dangerous

:36:06. > :36:08.into Europe, they are facing a Some people are saying they should

:36:09. > :36:12.stop fleeing to those camps, they should stay in their homes, even

:36:13. > :36:18.though it may be dangerous, what do you say? Most of the refugees have

:36:19. > :36:22.been there for nearly four years. This conflict has been raging for

:36:23. > :36:26.nearly five years. They have left because somebody close to them has

:36:27. > :36:30.been shot in front of them, died in a bomb blast. There really is no

:36:31. > :36:35.option. As a parent, you only fully integrated as a parent, you only

:36:36. > :36:39.fully integrate desert no other option if you want to keep your

:36:40. > :36:43.child safe. What you want see happen? The UK Government has been

:36:44. > :36:44.very generous with its aid. happen? The UK Government has been

:36:45. > :36:49.should be credited with that. We happen? The UK Government has been

:36:50. > :36:51.ploughing in as much support as happen? The UK Government has been

:36:52. > :36:54.possible. The UN appeal is happen? The UK Government has been

:36:55. > :36:58.the money we happen? The UK Government has been

:36:59. > :37:03.needs. We still need more support. Everyday we still need to supplying

:37:04. > :37:05.blankets, food, clothes, sanitary health conditions for children to

:37:06. > :37:09.stop health conditions for children to

:37:10. > :37:11.make sure those children get the psychological support they need. We

:37:12. > :37:15.cannot leave psychological support they need. We

:37:16. > :37:18.for themselves. They have been through horrific things. Any parent

:37:19. > :37:23.would understand that those children need to be in school, cared for, and

:37:24. > :37:31.kept from harm. Thank you for talking to us.

:37:32. > :37:38.More news here on the whale watching boat which sank off Vancouver

:37:39. > :37:43.Island. Five British people died, including Kate Taylor. Her family

:37:44. > :37:49.have just released this statement saying that she was a vibrant,

:37:50. > :37:54.outgoing, and lovely young woman. She will be very much missed by all

:37:55. > :37:56.of her family and many friends. We would ask that you respect our

:37:57. > :38:03.privacy at such a difficult time. People who have

:38:04. > :38:18.Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or ME, symptoms of Chronic Fatigue

:38:19. > :38:21.Syndrome, such as joint pain, headaches and memory problems, can

:38:22. > :38:28.be overcome by living a more active lifestyle and by patients

:38:29. > :38:33.altering their mind set. In Oxford, we have Professor Michael

:38:34. > :38:36.Sharpe, author of this research. and in Bristol we're joined by

:38:37. > :38:38.Sonya Chowdhury, Chief Executive of Action for ME, who help with

:38:39. > :38:41.the care and support of sufferers. Joining me is Rosie Fletcher who's

:38:42. > :38:53.had ME for two years, Welcome to all of you. Professor

:38:54. > :38:57.Sharp, what is it specifically that you believe you have discovered that

:38:58. > :39:05.improves this condition. -- Professor Sharpe. The recent paper,

:39:06. > :39:11.published today, is a follow-up of a treatment trial that we published in

:39:12. > :39:18.2011. The new information is that these rehabilitative type treatments

:39:19. > :39:23.such as cognitive behavioural therapy, that is not the same as

:39:24. > :39:28.positive thinking, as reported, these are treatments which help

:39:29. > :39:32.people explore and increase what they are able to do. We have found

:39:33. > :39:36.that the benefit of those last two years after the patient has had the

:39:37. > :39:42.treatment, and there is no evidence that they cause deterioration or

:39:43. > :39:46.harm. That is the new information. These are not magic cures, they are

:39:47. > :39:54.treatments. OK, I would like to get a reaction

:39:55. > :40:00.from the Chief Executive of Charity Action For N E, what do you think?

:40:01. > :40:06.This report indicated there was no difference to any of the treatment

:40:07. > :40:10.approaches tried. -- ME. The headlines we have seen this morning

:40:11. > :40:16.are wildly misleading at best. At worst they are positively insulting

:40:17. > :40:22.to the 250,000 people in the UK. Why do you say insulting? Because people

:40:23. > :40:27.are in dire situations. They cannot just get better by thinking

:40:28. > :40:31.positively and undertaking exercise. That isn't what CBT and graded

:40:32. > :40:38.exercise therapy are about. Would you like to respond, professor? I am

:40:39. > :40:44.in complete agreement. We went to great lengths to get an accurate

:40:45. > :40:47.story out. Unfortunately a couple of newspapers have had misleading

:40:48. > :40:54.headlines. I agree, they are insulting to kill people. That is an

:40:55. > :40:58.unfortunate way the media has covered it, not to do with the

:40:59. > :41:03.research itself. Just be absolutely clear about briefly again what it is

:41:04. > :41:10.you are saying to people with ME this morning. We are saying if you

:41:11. > :41:16.undertake CBT, or graded exercise, and that is not positive thinking

:41:17. > :41:19.and just exercising, this is done with skilled therapists, that on

:41:20. > :41:24.average you have a benefit of improving how you feel, and being

:41:25. > :41:30.able to do more. And that benefit will last for a substantial period,

:41:31. > :41:34.and there is not a risk of harm. It is also true what Sonia says. If you

:41:35. > :41:39.compare the people who originally had other treatments they seem to do

:41:40. > :41:43.as well. But the complication is that those people had additional CBT

:41:44. > :41:50.and graded exercise in the follow-up period. So we cannot really there is

:41:51. > :41:54.long-term benefits from treatments such as medical care. We can say

:41:55. > :41:59.that CBT and graded exercise, if they help you the benefits persist.

:42:00. > :42:05.Is this true that people have done this trial and they have had death

:42:06. > :42:10.threats? This is a controversial area. All sorts of reasons for the

:42:11. > :42:14.controversy. Is it true they have had death threats? Some of my

:42:15. > :42:21.colleagues have reported that. Unpleasant threats. I think that is

:42:22. > :42:26.in part because people misinterpret what we are saying. Not helped by

:42:27. > :42:29.the media coverage today. Saying that it isn't a real illness, or

:42:30. > :42:36.they should think positively, or exercise, again that is not the

:42:37. > :42:41.report. What do you think, Rosey Fletcher? I agree, the media

:42:42. > :42:48.coverage is disheartening to read. -- Rosie Fletcher. The open up a

:42:49. > :42:52.newspaper and it says it is not a chronic illness. It is disheartening

:42:53. > :43:02.to read things like that. -- you open up. What you think about what

:43:03. > :43:05.Professor Sharpe is saying? It is useful for some people to have

:43:06. > :43:09.positive thinking and graded exercise their P. I've done that

:43:10. > :43:16.therapy. But it is a complicated illness. -- graded exercise therapy.

:43:17. > :43:21.It isn't something you can just walk off like a big dinner. He was saying

:43:22. > :43:26.this is not to do with the media coverage. He is very disappointed in

:43:27. > :43:28.the media coverage, just as we are. Thank you all for coming on the

:43:29. > :43:52.programme. We appreciate your time. Alan says ME helped by cancelling? I

:43:53. > :43:56.don't think so. -- counselling. After that hopefully you will

:43:57. > :43:59.recognise that it is different from what is being reported in the

:44:00. > :44:01.newspapers. Thank you for your company today,

:44:02. > :44:02.and for all your messages,