29/10/2015

:00:08. > :00:16.I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:00:17. > :00:19.As MPs debate plans by Labour MP Frank Field to water down

:00:20. > :00:23.the impact of tax credit cuts, we've taken him to meet some voters.

:00:24. > :00:29.What messages would you draw about what we have in talking about for

:00:30. > :00:33.the Chancellor? What they are doing will push so

:00:34. > :00:36.many children into poverty and it is not about adults, it is about the

:00:37. > :00:39.children. Once you have given something to

:00:40. > :00:43.somebody and once the government has decided to make that decision that

:00:44. > :00:46.they will give that family that amount every month, you do not take

:00:47. > :00:49.Plus, we now know that Kids Company received at least ?46 million

:00:50. > :00:52.of public money, that's your money, despite repeated warnings

:00:53. > :00:55.We'll talk to one charity who say they're "utterly bewildered"

:00:56. > :01:03.by how much cash was ploughed into the failed charity.

:01:04. > :01:10.Children, young people and really vulnerable mothers are hearing about

:01:11. > :01:14.us on the street, making their way to our street level centres. A lot

:01:15. > :01:19.of mental health issues, they have child protection issues, they are

:01:20. > :01:26.without food. So we are completely overwhelmed by the numbers that are

:01:27. > :01:30.arriving at our door and a lot of them, they are child protection,

:01:31. > :01:34.child mental health cases. That is why I kept going back to the

:01:35. > :01:38.government and saying, you cannot leave it children'scharity with

:01:39. > :01:41.If you've been trying to get a ticket for the new Harry Potter

:01:42. > :01:43.play, chances are you're pretty disappointed this morning.

:01:44. > :01:46.We'll tell you the best ways of getting tickets,

:01:47. > :02:02.Welcome to the programme, we're on BBC2 and the BBC News

:02:03. > :02:07.Throughout the programme, we'll bring you the latest breaking

:02:08. > :02:10.news and developing stories and - as always - we're keen to hear

:02:11. > :02:12.from you on all the topics we're covering this morning.

:02:13. > :02:14.A little later, we'll be talking about IVF.

:02:15. > :02:17.Leading fertility experts tell us a fixed maximum charge should be

:02:18. > :02:24.introduced on the amount fertility clinics can charge the NHS for IVF.

:02:25. > :02:31.Your contributions to this programme and your expertise

:02:32. > :02:35.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:36. > :02:37.And, of course, you can watch the programme online wherever you

:02:38. > :02:42.are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

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:02:46. > :02:47.by going to add topics and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.

:02:48. > :02:50.First this morning, cuts to tax credits will be debated in the House

:02:51. > :02:54.Over the last few months, it's become a toxic issue

:02:55. > :02:57.From next year, we will reduce the level

:02:58. > :03:00.of earnings at which a household's tax credits and universal credits

:03:01. > :03:06.The income threshold in tax credits will be reduced

:03:07. > :03:14.These changes to tax credits are not easy, but they are fair,

:03:15. > :03:20.and they will return tax credit spending to the level it was

:03:21. > :03:25.Does he not see the value of giving support to people trying to improve

:03:26. > :03:28.their lives, rather than cutting their ability to survive properly?

:03:29. > :03:31.We must make sure as we reform welfare, and as we cut

:03:32. > :03:36.taxes, that we protect the hardest working and the lowest paid.

:03:37. > :03:39.All these questions on tax credits in a way come back to

:03:40. > :03:42.the same point, which is how you build a strong and secure economy.

:03:43. > :03:45.Two in ten people will be worse off, how do you justify that?

:03:46. > :03:48.Well, by saying to you it's eight out of

:03:49. > :03:51.But also, the point I was trying to make...

:03:52. > :03:56.Let me just give you this very quick, sort of, what is happening

:03:57. > :04:01.What is happening on the ground is that two in ten working people, they

:04:02. > :04:05.You, a Conservative government that claims to be on the side

:04:06. > :04:08.of hard-working families, will be poorer...

:04:09. > :04:11.It's about, surely, respect for those who strive to do everything we

:04:12. > :04:23.ask of them and now find themselves punished for doing what's right.

:04:24. > :04:26.Last night, unelected Labour and Liberal peers

:04:27. > :04:29.have voted down the financial measures on tax credits approved

:04:30. > :04:39.That raises clear constitutional issues, which we will deal with.

:04:40. > :04:42.We will continue to reform tax credits and save the money needed so

:04:43. > :04:49.For three million people out there who have done everything asked

:04:50. > :04:51.of them, bringing up their children, going to work, this

:04:52. > :04:57.Instead of manufacturing a phoney constitutional crisis,

:04:58. > :05:01.why won't he put his toys back in the pram and appreciate he needs

:05:02. > :05:09.This is what the Chancellor - George Osborne - had to say on Monday

:05:10. > :05:11.night, shortly after the Government was defeated in the Lords.

:05:12. > :05:16.I said I would listen and that's precisely what I intend to do.

:05:17. > :05:24.I believe we can achieve the same goal of reforming tax credits,

:05:25. > :05:27.saving the money we need to save to secure our economy while at the same

:05:28. > :05:31.That is what I intend to do at the Autumn Statement.

:05:32. > :05:34.I'm determined to deliver that lower welfare, higher wage economy that we

:05:35. > :05:42.were elected to deliver and the British people want to see.

:05:43. > :05:45.Following the government's defeat in the House of Lords last Monday,

:05:46. > :05:48.the Chancellor - as you just saw - has promised to "soften the blow"

:05:49. > :05:51.of the cuts to tax credits, which millions of families rely on.

:05:52. > :05:54.But it's not clear yet who will be better or worse off under

:05:55. > :06:00.the changes, all of which are due to have taken effect by 2020.

:06:01. > :06:07.A single parent working 20 hours a week would be ?1,000 worse off.

:06:08. > :06:12.A low earning couple with two children, with one parent working 16

:06:13. > :06:15.hours and the other 37.5, would lose out by ?850.

:06:16. > :06:17.But a mid-earning couple both working a five-day week

:06:18. > :06:26.Later this morning, MPs will debate and vote on a plan

:06:27. > :06:29.by Labour's Frank Field, which calls on the Government to water down

:06:30. > :06:35.Mr Field - who heads up the Work Pensions Committee - thinks cuts

:06:36. > :06:38.should be introduced gradually to allow employers to increase wages in

:06:39. > :06:43.We asked him to make this exclusive film for you, meeting people who

:06:44. > :06:51.receive tax credits and those who support the proposed cuts.

:06:52. > :06:58.Hello, my name is Frank Field, I am a Labour member of Parliament for

:06:59. > :07:00.Birkenhead and the chair of the Select Committee of the House of

:07:01. > :07:05.Commons on Work and Pensions. Over the last couple of months,

:07:06. > :07:09.Parliament has become increasingly concerned about what will be the

:07:10. > :07:15.impact on individual families of the quite large cuts the government is

:07:16. > :07:18.proposing to make in tax credits. I have some ideas about how we can

:07:19. > :07:23.protect the very poorest in this position but also, there is a number

:07:24. > :07:28.of ideas now before the House of Commons which we will be debating

:07:29. > :07:33.shortly. Before that debate, I have come here in Westminster not far

:07:34. > :07:37.from the House of Commons to talk to four individuals, all of them

:07:38. > :07:41.taxpayers, but two of them also claiming tax credits. I want to get

:07:42. > :07:46.the feeling of people who pay tax but get no benefit and also I am

:07:47. > :07:50.interested in finding out what it is like to be inside the skin of those

:07:51. > :07:55.families who face quite large cuts in tax credits next April one must

:07:56. > :08:00.Parliament is successful in persuading the government to

:08:01. > :08:32.mitigate the effects of cutting the tax credit bill.

:08:33. > :08:39.Sarah, how would you be affected by what the Chancellor proposes? As far

:08:40. > :08:44.as I understand at the moment, I would be 100, ?150 a month worse

:08:45. > :08:49.off. For a family like mine, that will have a massive effect. We

:08:50. > :08:54.already cannot afford luxuries, holidays, meals out and things. All

:08:55. > :09:00.the tax credits go to her childcare bill. Me and my partner, I do not

:09:01. > :09:07.work in a high-flying job and now the does he. And we do not receive

:09:08. > :09:12.1p of any type of support from the government. And we managed to get

:09:13. > :09:17.by. I think there needs to be a better distinction between who

:09:18. > :09:26.actually needs them and who is claiming them because some people,

:09:27. > :09:32.friends of mine, claim Working Tax Credit, and they actually bring home

:09:33. > :09:36.more each month than I do and I work 37.5 hours a week. I am putting in

:09:37. > :09:41.the hours but I am not necessarily receiving as much at the end of the

:09:42. > :09:46.month as some of them. How'd you feel about these changes, Chris? I

:09:47. > :09:52.do think it is right there are people out there working full-time

:09:53. > :09:58.who have not got the amount of money coming in that some other people

:09:59. > :10:03.have. Some people out there are one benefits of all sorts, housing

:10:04. > :10:06.benefit and the rest of it, and they have got sky television, mobile

:10:07. > :10:11.phones coming out of their ears, cars in the drives, and we have not

:10:12. > :10:15.got any of that. When I was younger and had the children, we did not

:10:16. > :10:19.have any of that because we were earning over the limit so that has

:10:20. > :10:23.to be something, somewhere worked out so it is therefore everybody

:10:24. > :10:29.including the taxpayer. Some people forget that people claiming tax

:10:30. > :10:32.credits are often taxpayers themselves. I have paid into the

:10:33. > :10:38.system and I have always worked. I continue to work even though I have

:10:39. > :10:43.a two-year-old. The only way I can do that is through tax credits to

:10:44. > :10:48.pay for childcare. The issue with me at the moment is if I work longer, I

:10:49. > :10:51.pay more childcare. If I was to work full-time, I would pay almost double

:10:52. > :10:58.the amount of childcare as I do at the moment. So that is not possible.

:10:59. > :11:04.I would not have more money coming in. What about working longer,

:11:05. > :11:08.Nicola? It is not as black and white as working longer hours because I do

:11:09. > :11:13.not financially benefit and what way do with 11-year-old daughter in the

:11:14. > :11:23.school holidays, in the evenings? I am on my own, I am on my own with

:11:24. > :11:27.you like it or not. How about if the changes were phased in, but that

:11:28. > :11:33.work? I earn ?10 an hour so the living wage makes no difference to

:11:34. > :11:37.me. My daughter is my world but she costs a lot of money. To get her to

:11:38. > :11:42.secondary school was ridiculous, people do not understand how much it

:11:43. > :11:46.costs. Do not say to me I could not have a daughter, I could not afford

:11:47. > :11:51.it. I was married, I always worked, things happened, I was 26 and I had

:11:52. > :11:59.my daughter. What am I supposed to do, make disappear? You said you

:12:00. > :12:08.earn ?10 an hour. I earn ?7 50 an hour so a lot to... How old are you?

:12:09. > :12:13.I am 28 and I have 18 years more experience working. If you work it

:12:14. > :12:19.out each month, would you find it you were bringing home more money

:12:20. > :12:27.than me? I do not know. I earn ?11,000 each year. I rent, I get tax

:12:28. > :12:31.credits of ?98 a week, I get help with my housing benefit and my

:12:32. > :12:36.ex-husband helps. I privately rented my own house and I do not get

:12:37. > :12:41.anything. Sometimes I do feel at the end of the month and when payday

:12:42. > :12:46.comes around, I do see people around me who do benefit more. Chris, what

:12:47. > :12:51.messages would you draw from what we had been talking about for the

:12:52. > :12:55.Chancellor? E has the difficult job of coming back with new proposals.

:12:56. > :13:01.It has rolled out of control. We have been trying to help those who

:13:02. > :13:06.need help but in that process, we have also helped those who take and

:13:07. > :13:10.do not give. What they do next year will push so many children into

:13:11. > :13:14.poverty and it is not about adults, it is about the children. Once you

:13:15. > :13:17.have given something to somebody and wants the government has decided to

:13:18. > :13:21.make that decision that they will get that family that amount every

:13:22. > :13:29.month, you do not take it away. That quickly. So the key question is the

:13:30. > :13:32.pace of the reforms. How these cuts will affect individual families. The

:13:33. > :13:37.Chancellor, thank goodness, has begun to talk about ringing in

:13:38. > :13:42.reforms which will help some of the families who will be most affected

:13:43. > :13:47.by the cuts. He perhaps for obvious reasons is not keen to talk to me

:13:48. > :13:52.today so I am going to talk to a Tory MPs who has been supporting the

:13:53. > :13:54.Chancellor all along. Mark, you have been broadly

:13:55. > :13:58.supportive of the government in his attempts to win the benefits bill

:13:59. > :14:03.down, why? One of the arguments which I think is important is it

:14:04. > :14:08.does not aid -- it does not make a huge amount of sense to tax people,

:14:09. > :14:12.to take the money away and effectively lose valued and hand it

:14:13. > :14:16.back to people. At a later date. We have a huge deficit problem, it does

:14:17. > :14:20.not make sense to take money away and give it back again. There is an

:14:21. > :14:25.issue as to whether this will subsidise employees, employers, that

:14:26. > :14:30.is debatable but I strongly believe employers rather than employees so

:14:31. > :14:35.we need to resolve this problem. The government is now saying they will

:14:36. > :14:38.bring in some changes to the original proposals, what is your

:14:39. > :14:45.response? My response is that I hope the government sticks with the

:14:46. > :14:51.overriding policy. It mitigates the effects on people at the lower end

:14:52. > :14:56.of the wage scale. People do earn, they work 16, 20 hours a week and

:14:57. > :15:00.Big Ben minimum wage and they will be badly affected by this and I

:15:01. > :15:06.would like them to be helped, and they earn. One proposal I put to the

:15:07. > :15:10.government is they should ensure everybody below the statutory

:15:11. > :15:14.minimum wage should not be affect on but if they do this at no extra cost

:15:15. > :15:18.to the taxpayers, it means people above that level would see benefits

:15:19. > :15:25.at a tougher rate. What is your response? One thing I've -- one

:15:26. > :15:28.thing I think is important for everybody, and you have plenty of

:15:29. > :15:35.warning of what is going to happen, people can budget a year or two head

:15:36. > :15:40.but they cannot budget from today to April next year. So I think whatever

:15:41. > :15:43.measure you are proposing has to have a certain amount of flexibility

:15:44. > :15:48.in terms of the delivery of it and if it means those people on higher

:15:49. > :15:54.wages have greater flexibility but not necessarily that much. We need

:15:55. > :15:58.to give them the opportunity to be able to plan for the future. And

:15:59. > :16:02.also, to see the effects of rising wages coming through to those people

:16:03. > :16:03.before they will lose out in terms of reduction in their working

:16:04. > :16:15.credits. The Chancellor will be off his

:16:16. > :16:20.rocker if he doesn't listen to you? He's a very sensible man and he

:16:21. > :16:22.listens to everything. As the Chancellor it's an incredibly

:16:23. > :16:27.difficult job of being able to balance huge numbers of different

:16:28. > :16:30.things. Big divisions in the country over the government proposals to cut

:16:31. > :16:35.tax credits. Here in the House of Commons today we will debate the

:16:36. > :16:39.proposal I put forward to protect the poorest. But other MPs will be

:16:40. > :16:43.keen to put forward their ideas as well. The effects of our debate, we

:16:44. > :16:47.will know them in the Autumn Statement which the Chancellor will

:16:48. > :16:51.give in a couple of weeks' time. As with so many issues in British

:16:52. > :16:58.politics today, it's over to you, George.

:16:59. > :17:01.Your views on the cuts to tax credits are very welcome.

:17:02. > :17:02.Get in touch by emailing/texting/sending me

:17:03. > :17:14.A couple of messages. Janet says the government is hitting the hardest,

:17:15. > :17:18.the hard-working people they say to represent! If we are talking about

:17:19. > :17:22.unemployment benefits than I could join in the argument, but the truth

:17:23. > :17:27.is wages are not rising in line with costs, and that's the biggest

:17:28. > :17:30.problem. Colin says that Frank Field, the Labour MP, helped the

:17:31. > :17:37.Conservatives right at the start of the Conservative attack on the day

:17:38. > :17:40.disabled and poor. He's one of the main reasons Iain Duncan Smith has

:17:41. > :17:44.got away with it this time. Anything he says now goes in one ear and the

:17:45. > :17:48.other. He's one of the 20 right-wing traitors.

:17:49. > :17:58.News just in, the UK population will rise by 9.7 million over the next 25

:17:59. > :18:00.years. Those according to the Office for National Statistics.

:18:01. > :18:06.at least ?46 million of public money, despite warnings about

:18:07. > :18:13.was run. We'll be hearing from one charity, who says it's bewildering

:18:14. > :18:14.how much money the failed charity got.

:18:15. > :18:17.And a leading fertility doctor calls for there to be a limit

:18:18. > :18:20.on how much fertility clinics can charge the NHS, in an attempt to

:18:21. > :18:23.stop access to the service varying so much across England.

:18:24. > :18:29.First, it's time for the main news this morning.

:18:30. > :18:32.A report on the failed charity Kids Company has found that it

:18:33. > :18:34.received at least ?46 million of public money, despite repeated

:18:35. > :18:39.The report by the spending watchdog, the National Audit Office,

:18:40. > :18:42.says civil servants raised concerns about the charity, which collapsed

:18:43. > :18:52.Friends of Bailey Gwynne - the schoolboy who was stabbed to

:18:53. > :18:55.death in Aberdeen yesterday - have laid flowers at the gate

:18:56. > :18:59.The school's head teacher says pupils and staff are in a

:19:00. > :19:02.Police are continuing to question a 16-year-old boy

:19:03. > :19:07.The Labour peer Lord Harris has accused the government of ignoring

:19:08. > :19:10.a review he conducted on how to reduce the number of young people

:19:11. > :19:16.More than 60 people have taken their lives behind bars

:19:17. > :19:25.British Gas has contacted more than 2000 customers to warn them

:19:26. > :19:28.their email addresses and account passwords have been posted online.

:19:29. > :19:32.Bank account and payment details wouldn't have been revealed, but

:19:33. > :19:36.the logins could have been used to see names, addresses and old bills.

:19:37. > :19:43.Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:19:44. > :19:49.There was another big night of League Cup football. The shocks

:19:50. > :19:52.continued with Manchester United going out on penalties to

:19:53. > :19:57.Championship side Middlesbrough. The England trio of Ashley Young,

:19:58. > :20:00.Michael Carrick and Wayne Rooney all missed penalties, not what Roy

:20:01. > :20:03.Hodgson will want to see ahead of another major tournament next

:20:04. > :20:07.summer. Manchester City are through, as are Liverpool, and they are

:20:08. > :20:12.likely to be the favourites for the trophy now. I will take a look back

:20:13. > :20:18.at the round with former Arsenal and Celtic striker John Hartson later.

:20:19. > :20:23.We will also be looking at Fifa and suspended President Sepp Blatter,

:20:24. > :20:32.who admitted that before the vote it was already decided that the 2018 go

:20:33. > :20:39.to Russia. The English FA say they will speak to their lawyers about

:20:40. > :20:44.recouping cash for their bid. The world athletics Championships was

:20:45. > :20:48.littered with medals. More joy for Hannah Cockroft, Richard Whitehead

:20:49. > :20:52.and Hannah Davies. A silver medal for the men at the world gymnastics

:20:53. > :20:56.Championships as well. Plenty of reasons to be cheerful. We will have

:20:57. > :21:00.a closer look at those stories just after 10am.

:21:01. > :21:02.A damning report out today into the children's charity Kids Company

:21:03. > :21:13.shows it received ?46 million pounds in taxpayers' money over a decade

:21:14. > :21:15.and a half, despite civil servants warning ministers SIX

:21:16. > :21:17.times over the years that the charity wasn't offering value

:21:18. > :21:21.Kids Company helped vulnerable inner city children and young adults

:21:22. > :21:22.in parts of London, Liverpool and Bristol.

:21:23. > :21:25.When it closed suddenly in August, big questions were asked

:21:26. > :21:29.The report today from the spending watchdog the National Audit Office,

:21:30. > :21:32.It details how Kids Company received government funding for

:21:33. > :21:40.Over that period it got ?42 million from central government

:21:41. > :21:46.Other funding came from local councils and lottery funding, and

:21:47. > :21:52.More than half of the 42 million came

:21:53. > :21:59.This is the charity's founder, Camila Batmanghelidjh,

:22:00. > :22:06.back in August, telling us why it needed this money.

:22:07. > :22:15.Young people, really vulnerable mothers, are hearing about us on the

:22:16. > :22:19.street and making their way to our street level centres. A lot of them

:22:20. > :22:24.have mental health issues, child protection issues, and they are

:22:25. > :22:29.without food. We are completely overwhelmed by the numbers that are

:22:30. > :22:33.arriving at our door. A lot of them are child protection, child mental

:22:34. > :22:36.health cases. That's why I keep going back to the government saying

:22:37. > :22:40.he cannot leave a children's charity with cases like this.

:22:41. > :22:42.Today's report goes onto show how Kids Company received larger

:22:43. > :22:47.In 2008, it was awarded 20 percent of the

:22:48. > :22:50.overall funding from the Department for Education's grant programme.

:22:51. > :22:56.The remainder was shared between 42 other charities.

:22:57. > :23:00.And in 2011, Kids Company received twice as much as any other charity.

:23:01. > :23:03.It got twice as much as Barnardo's for exampe.

:23:04. > :23:05.The report also shows that officials repeatedly raised concerns

:23:06. > :23:13.about Kids Company's finances, but grants were still awarded.

:23:14. > :23:16.It highlights a "consistent pattern of behaviour" from staff at the

:23:17. > :23:22.charity showing that Kids Company would lobby the government for more

:23:23. > :23:25.funding, if officials resisted, Kids Company would write to ministers

:23:26. > :23:33.expressing fears about redundancies and closures. Ministers would then

:23:34. > :23:36.ask officials to review the funding decision; officials would then award

:23:37. > :23:41.Two weeks ago, Camila Batmanghelidjh, and one of the

:23:42. > :23:46.the BBC executive Alan Yentob, defended to MPs how

:23:47. > :24:00.Yes, from 2014 onwards, we had problems. There's no question. Up to

:24:01. > :24:06.that point, for all those years when I was chairing, from 2003 until

:24:07. > :24:07.2014, it was well run, well-managed, in very difficult

:24:08. > :24:13.circumstances. And this morning

:24:14. > :24:15.we've got more detail on those years at the charity, when the

:24:16. > :24:18.funding was overseen by the Cabinet In April 2015,

:24:19. > :24:22.the Government agreed to pay the charity's annual grant of ?4.3m

:24:23. > :24:25.upfront, rather than quarterly. And in June,

:24:26. > :24:30.when officials warned ministers that a further grant didn't represent

:24:31. > :24:33.value for money, they were told to We've asked to speak today to both

:24:34. > :24:40.Camila Batmanghelidjh and Alan We've also invited the Department

:24:41. > :24:45.for Education and the Cabinet Office to come on and explain this funding,

:24:46. > :24:48.but both turned us down. Our bid for the Cabinet Office

:24:49. > :24:51.ministers Oliver Letwin and We also tried to approach all

:24:52. > :24:57.the former Education Secretaries Ruth Kelly -

:24:58. > :25:05.we couldn't get hold of her. Charles Clarke - again,

:25:06. > :25:10.didn't want to speak to us. We can speak to the chair

:25:11. > :25:15.of the Public Accounts Committee. They're a group of MPs who monitor

:25:16. > :25:18.what the governemnt spends. Labour MP Meg Hillier -

:25:19. > :25:20.she describes these figures And we can also speak to the head

:25:21. > :25:24.of the charity Children England, Kathy Evans, who says she's

:25:25. > :25:33.in "shock" at the figures. Your reaction to the report and the

:25:34. > :25:40.figures in it? I think it's really shocking. Some of it, particularly

:25:41. > :25:45.in the recent parts of the story will be familiar to many of us

:25:46. > :25:49.following since August. The most shocking thing for me was to see in

:25:50. > :25:53.black and white the first grant from the Home Office in 2002 for

:25:54. > :26:01.emergency funds to prevent closure. That has taken 15 years, nearly 15

:26:02. > :26:06.years, of repeated brink of closure. That came as a shock to me. I work

:26:07. > :26:09.in a charity sector, we are a membership body for all children's

:26:10. > :26:14.charities, and we were part of the grand programmes in many cases,

:26:15. > :26:18.receiving money. This is a very different picture from what we and

:26:19. > :26:21.our members experienced from Whitehall decision-making. Where

:26:22. > :26:27.Kids Company treated differently? Some kind of special case, you would

:26:28. > :26:30.say? I think it's clear from the report that they were treated

:26:31. > :26:34.differently, whether it's in the volume of ground they received

:26:35. > :26:40.compare to others, or in the repetitiveness of being given

:26:41. > :26:43.another chance. We do not have any money from the Department for

:26:44. > :26:47.Education, but we didn't close, and we've had to adjust to the loss.

:26:48. > :26:54.That's the norm for charities and our members. It is unbelievable that

:26:55. > :26:58.over 13 years, as you highlight, repeated warnings were made. A

:26:59. > :27:03.pattern of behaviour that there was a brink of crisis and requests for

:27:04. > :27:07.better financial plans, but the money was given anyway. The first

:27:08. > :27:16.grant of this year, the last grand, 4.5 million, it was spent very

:27:17. > :27:22.quickly. Cathy Evans, one of the things I picked out from the report,

:27:23. > :27:25.in 2013, Kids Company failed to win grants through the normal

:27:26. > :27:35.competitive process, it rose is that you and other charities go through.

:27:36. > :27:38.-- a process that Hugh. The Department for Education said it

:27:39. > :27:42.prepared a public interest case to support it getting cash. Because of

:27:43. > :27:46.the quality of the work and the damage to the government's

:27:47. > :27:50.reputation. I think that's quite extraordinary. Those of us funded

:27:51. > :27:55.under that programme were clearly told at the beginning of the two

:27:56. > :27:58.years, don't assume there will be any money after this. It could not

:27:59. > :28:04.have been communicated more clearly to the rest of us. During the course

:28:05. > :28:10.of the second year, we were all quite explicitly expected to explain

:28:11. > :28:16.how we were preparing for the end of the ground, and being clear with the

:28:17. > :28:19.Department where there were redundancy indications, but where we

:28:20. > :28:22.also might be offered an extension, just because that Grant had

:28:23. > :28:27.finished, and we wouldn't get another one. That is exceptional,

:28:28. > :28:33.absolutely exceptional. What do you think of the fact that up until June

:28:34. > :28:41.2013, successive governments, Labour, the coalition and the

:28:42. > :28:44.Conservatives, relied on Kids Company's self-assessment to monitor

:28:45. > :28:47.its performance. It's one of the real concerns will stop its a good

:28:48. > :28:53.thing they were asking questions, but the data they were getting back

:28:54. > :28:59.was from Kids Company. Anyone else would think something was funny

:29:00. > :29:03.there. If you were paying for subbing out of your own pocket, as

:29:04. > :29:08.it is with taxpayers' money, you would want to know what's

:29:09. > :29:13.responsible. Kids Company do say their books were independently

:29:14. > :29:19.audited and passed the audit year after year. There is a difference

:29:20. > :29:23.between being audited financially, and for is that the government put

:29:24. > :29:28.the grants in for. If you look at the report, some of the real

:29:29. > :29:33.concerns, some of is the government funded massively exceeded by Kids

:29:34. > :29:37.Company's own figures. That should have rung some alarm bells more

:29:38. > :29:41.thoroughly than it did. It pointed out in the report what was being

:29:42. > :29:45.monitored was the number of interventions, rather than the

:29:46. > :29:48.outcome, whether the interventions worked. Even know civil servants

:29:49. > :29:53.over the years said you needed to look at the outcomes, nobody did

:29:54. > :30:00.that. Who's responsibility was that? Our experience of that is that we

:30:01. > :30:04.agreed outcomes at the beginning. We were rigorously challenged about

:30:05. > :30:09.whether they were real outcomes and we had to report an quarterly. I

:30:10. > :30:13.would say most of us, and our grant programme, add an independent

:30:14. > :30:23.evaluator, not just an independent auditor. In our cases, self-report

:30:24. > :30:27.assessment wasn't the gold standard for knowing whether they got value

:30:28. > :30:32.for money. My big regret is when I think of the disproportionate grants

:30:33. > :30:38.to Kids Company out of those rogue rams. It was a highly competitive

:30:39. > :30:42.process. -- out of those programmes. Many other organisations will have

:30:43. > :30:46.put in worthwhile bids, and been told it was worthwhile, but there

:30:47. > :30:49.wasn't enough money. That's a real opportunity cost for many charities

:30:50. > :30:54.who would have delivered something really valuable. From your point of

:30:55. > :30:59.view in the charity sector, what do you think was going on with Kids

:31:00. > :31:02.Company? What was it about this charity that meant that for years it

:31:03. > :31:10.could continue to get so much funding even though it wasn't...

:31:11. > :31:13.There was a cash flow problem, they all knew about it, and it wasn't

:31:14. > :31:20.necessarily offering value for money. I have to say that in the

:31:21. > :31:24.charity sector we ask ourselves the question as he went along. I can't

:31:25. > :31:26.put myself in the minds of civil servants or ministers in terms of

:31:27. > :31:30.their decision-making, and it will be interesting to watch the

:31:31. > :31:36.committee next week. Kids Company was unique and they prided

:31:37. > :31:41.themselves on being a very, kind of a loner within the sector. They

:31:42. > :31:45.didn't join my organisation and rarely collaborated with others. For

:31:46. > :31:48.many of us, they were known about but not worked with. We could see

:31:49. > :31:54.something different was going on in terms of the favour they had and the

:31:55. > :31:58.kind of funding they had. But, they looked like a very expensive

:31:59. > :32:02.community project to me. By comparison to the value for money

:32:03. > :32:09.that many other charities in the country offer.

:32:10. > :32:13.Harry Potter fans curse at websites and phone lines, as ticket sales for

:32:14. > :32:20.the wizard's new play are hit by problems.

:32:21. > :32:24.A gay man has won the first-ever compensation award for scrum nation

:32:25. > :32:30.based entirely on homophobic gestures. In an exclusive interview,

:32:31. > :32:35.Tim tells us about the months of taunts he was subjected to based on

:32:36. > :32:39.his sexuality. He sued a locksmith called Peter Edwards under the

:32:40. > :32:43.Equality Act and he won what is believed to be the first case of

:32:44. > :32:47.discrimination based on a case where not a single case was spoken -- word

:32:48. > :32:51.was spoken. He has been talking to Clive Coleman.

:32:52. > :33:08.I would describe it as a very minor difference of opinion.

:33:09. > :33:17.It never got heated, the gentleman concerned, the individual, he became

:33:18. > :33:21.a little bit defensive. He looked a sarcastic kiss at me. As I was

:33:22. > :33:30.leaving the shop on that particular incident. A sort of was in shock

:33:31. > :33:39.really after that and it would range from low-level sarcastic winking at

:33:40. > :33:49.me, sarcastic kissing at me like you would see perhaps in a film,, you

:33:50. > :33:56.know? But from a distance. But he was looking at me. He put his hand

:33:57. > :34:05.on his hip, a teapot, if you want to call it a teapot. A limp wrist, if

:34:06. > :34:12.you like. Hand on the hip? Yes, that kind of stuff. It was what I call

:34:13. > :34:20.file and for the homophobic gestures. -- vulgar homophobic. It

:34:21. > :34:25.is not pleasant, can you tell me the kind of things? The wording I would

:34:26. > :34:33.use is inferring oral sex with a man.

:34:34. > :34:40.This was 2013. It started initially in 2013 and into 2014. Not 1913,

:34:41. > :34:47.1914. How did it make you feel that you were the subject of this sort of

:34:48. > :34:53.mocking and abuse? It was that I was his joke. I was his bit of fun. A

:34:54. > :35:00.source of amusement. I don't know. I do not know his mindset. It was

:35:01. > :35:06.surreal. I was stressed out by it, distressed, a bit of anger. It made

:35:07. > :35:12.me anxious. I suffer with anxiety anyway. And coupled with other stuff

:35:13. > :35:18.going on. What you hope will come of it? The first thing I would say is I

:35:19. > :35:23.do not regret anything I did and I would do the same again tomorrow. If

:35:24. > :35:32.it makes one person come forward who is suffering, gesturing, verbal,

:35:33. > :35:37.physical, whatever, abuse, you have to have the courage of your

:35:38. > :35:42.conviction to report it. Otherwise, it will not ever stop. On the flip

:35:43. > :35:48.side to that, if it stops one person in the street from gesturing, from

:35:49. > :35:53.shouting something discriminatory to somebody, it might not just be

:35:54. > :35:57.homophobic, it could be anything, the equality at 2010 is there to

:35:58. > :36:01.prevent many characteristics and I would be happy if it stops one

:36:02. > :36:05.person, a bigot, from gesturing or giving somebody who just has their

:36:06. > :36:10.heads down minding their own business and going about their

:36:11. > :36:14.everyday life, I would be chuffed and delighted with that aspect as

:36:15. > :36:19.well. Tim, not his real name, talking to Clive Coleman.

:36:20. > :36:22.We contacted the locksmiths company Taylor Edwards and their employee

:36:23. > :36:31.Peter Edwards but they declined to comment on the case.

:36:32. > :36:38.So projected figures now on that increasing population?

:36:39. > :36:43.It is planning exactly what the population is going to be doing. So

:36:44. > :36:47.the figures for this year, dating back to 2014, they have just been

:36:48. > :36:56.released. Headline figures, we know it is a growing population. The UK

:36:57. > :37:02.population projected to reach 70 million by 2027. It ticks down by

:37:03. > :37:07.age. We have an elderly and ageing population which will continue. By

:37:08. > :37:13.2039, more than one in 12 of the population will be predicted to be

:37:14. > :37:16.aged 18 or over and largely that is a result of the baby boom of the

:37:17. > :37:22.Second World War. They will reach that age. So implications in terms

:37:23. > :37:26.of health and pension services. Also, and I think the big change

:37:27. > :37:30.between two years ago is the change in migration. Those are the

:37:31. > :37:36.interesting figures. The headlines, assumes net migration accounts for

:37:37. > :37:42.51% of the projected increase over the next years. So they assumed net

:37:43. > :37:47.migration, more people coming in and going out, that will account for 51%

:37:48. > :37:54.of the projected increase over the next 25 years. And that is about 7

:37:55. > :37:59.million? Yes, an increase from 43% two years ago. But you also have

:38:00. > :38:05.direct migration, people coming into the country, and indirect migration,

:38:06. > :38:10.so they tend to be younger people he will have babies here. So you have a

:38:11. > :38:16.bigger percentage and that is 68% of the projected increase was down to

:38:17. > :38:22.direct or indirect migration. So clearly a change. And people will be

:38:23. > :38:27.concerned about that but the counter is we have an ageing population so

:38:28. > :38:30.we need more young people to pay for these older people as well. So an

:38:31. > :38:33.interesting snapshot of how the population is changing. Thank you.

:38:34. > :38:36.Singer Phil Collins has said he is coming out of retirement, four years

:38:37. > :38:41.Announcing plans to tour, the 64 year old said, "The horse is out of

:38:42. > :39:15.# I can feel it coming in the air tonight, hold on.

:39:16. > :39:26.# And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, hold on.

:39:27. > :39:30.# Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?

:39:31. > :39:38.We can talk to our entertainment correspondent. Kevin Geoghegan. Do

:39:39. > :39:42.some people call you Kevin Keegan by accident?

:39:43. > :39:46.It has happened. Phil Collins did an interview with Rolling Stones

:39:47. > :39:50.Magazine. He is officially out of retirement. The horse is out of the

:39:51. > :39:55.stable and raring to go. He announced his retirement four years

:39:56. > :39:59.ago and we have not heard anything of him in four years. He said in

:40:00. > :40:05.this interview he is planning to go back into the studio, he has a

:40:06. > :40:08.studio in his home in Miami which is nice if you can afford it! He plans

:40:09. > :40:12.to go back next month into the studio.

:40:13. > :40:18.Is that good news for fans? Great news for his fans! He is one of the

:40:19. > :40:23.most successful singer songwriters in music history. I think alongside

:40:24. > :40:29.Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney, between the three of them, they are

:40:30. > :40:32.the only artists who have sold more than 150 million records worldwide

:40:33. > :40:37.with a group and as a solar artist. He has won Grammy awards, Brit

:40:38. > :40:41.awards, he has an Oscar, Golden Globes. He has achieved everything

:40:42. > :40:46.any artist could want to over the course of his career. He announced

:40:47. > :40:50.his retirement four years ago to be a full-time father to his young

:40:51. > :40:55.sons. They have grown up now and he is anxious to get back to the studio

:40:56. > :40:58.and get working again. His motivation is he wants to make

:40:59. > :41:05.music, because he does not need the money. Absolutely not, he has an

:41:06. > :41:12.estimated wealth of ?115 million so he has pennies in the bank. Some of

:41:13. > :41:18.his solar albums will be reissued shortly. -- solar. Based on how they

:41:19. > :41:23.get received will be motivation for him to begin recording new music. He

:41:24. > :41:29.has not released a new album of new material since 2002. He had an album

:41:30. > :41:33.of covers, Motown covers, in 2010 which did very well, but he has not

:41:34. > :41:40.released new material for well over ten years. Are we getting to the

:41:41. > :41:51.drum roll pushed up the drum solar. Turn it up. This is my favourite

:41:52. > :41:55.bit. There you go! He was known as a drummer before a single. In 2007,

:41:56. > :42:00.there was a reunion tour with Genesis. He was strumming and he

:42:01. > :42:06.injured his back quite badly. That caused a lot of nerve damage which

:42:07. > :42:12.meant he could not hold drumsticks. He had countless surgery to correct

:42:13. > :42:16.that and recently in 2014, he said that he could not play the drums

:42:17. > :42:21.properly because of the damage that had been done. He is almost

:42:22. > :42:26.completely deaf in his left ear so he has had a number of medical

:42:27. > :42:30.issues. But he has clearly spent four years in retirement. He has got

:42:31. > :42:34.bored! He wants to make new music, so fair play to him. Thank you.

:42:35. > :42:52.We have had an exceptionally bright full moon known as a Hunter's men.

:42:53. > :42:57.We are seeing a full moon and also, the moon is that it's close to this

:42:58. > :43:02.point to the Earth on the loony, is. So we have high tides across the UK

:43:03. > :43:15.-- lunar eclipse. And across the Atlantic. Some coastal flooding is

:43:16. > :43:17.possible with the exceptionally high tides. Flood warnings across the UK

:43:18. > :43:19.and on the other side of the Atlantic. This was taken in South

:43:20. > :43:22.Carolina yesterday. You can see coastal flooding across South

:43:23. > :43:25.Carolina and they have had the remnants of Hurricane Bertha show.

:43:26. > :43:32.We could see coastal flooding -- Patricia.

:43:33. > :43:37.And it is warm? My heating has gone off! It is very mild and so was last

:43:38. > :43:41.Halloween. We had 23.6 Celsius last year on

:43:42. > :43:44.Halloween and we could see 20 Greece again this weekend.

:43:45. > :43:49.What about today? Today, we are looking at rain for

:43:50. > :43:52.many parts of the country. It has been a soggy start the day but it

:43:53. > :43:57.will brighten from the West through the day. A return to sunshine for

:43:58. > :44:02.many areas later. This shows where we have had rain already spreading

:44:03. > :44:06.from the West. Heavy over higher ground in Scotland and the North

:44:07. > :44:11.West of England. This rain continues to progress further East through the

:44:12. > :44:15.remainder of the day. It will fizzle out into Eastern counties of England

:44:16. > :44:21.this afternoon but squally winds as well. Further West, it will improve

:44:22. > :44:25.through the afternoon with a return to sunshine. Sunshine across parts

:44:26. > :44:28.of Wales and the south-west of England, but further East, still

:44:29. > :44:33.drizzly and damp across the South East of England and East Anglia.

:44:34. > :44:41.Miles, but fairly grey and breezy across the Midlands. Wales does look

:44:42. > :44:44.brighter, as does England. After a wet start, looking better later

:44:45. > :44:48.across Northern Ireland and Scotland. Sunny spells, showers and

:44:49. > :44:54.rain lingering across the Northern Ireland is. This rain will push

:44:55. > :44:59.towards the East. A quieter and dry spell before the next rain from the

:45:00. > :45:03.South tonight. A wet night across much of England and Wales. To the

:45:04. > :45:07.North of that, a chilly night, especially for the North West of

:45:08. > :45:12.Scotland. Frost possible and fog patches first thing tomorrow.

:45:13. > :45:16.Through the day, this rain will move steadily North, it will ease. Behind

:45:17. > :45:24.the rain, cloudy and slightly drizzly. That cloud will break and

:45:25. > :45:30.we could see temperatures up to 17, 18 degrees. So the mild weather

:45:31. > :45:35.continues towards the weekend. We have southerly winds shoring up mild

:45:36. > :45:41.air from the south, across much of the country. Temperatures will do

:45:42. > :45:44.well during the day on Saturday. It will not be dry everywhere. Showers

:45:45. > :45:50.for Halloween on Saturday but sunshine and in the sunshine, 18,

:45:51. > :45:57.possibly 20 degrees. Sunday is cloudier. To summarise the weekend,

:45:58. > :46:01.after the next soggy couple of days, things will stay mild, turning dry

:46:02. > :46:07.as well, or do not expect wall-to-wall disguise, we could have

:46:08. > :46:13.patchy fag -- purchase by -- patchy fog lingering.

:46:14. > :46:15.I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme

:46:16. > :46:23.As MPs debate plans by Labour MP Frank Field to water

:46:24. > :46:29.we meet some of those who will be hit by the changes.

:46:30. > :46:36.What messages would you draw from what they are doing? What they are

:46:37. > :46:39.doing next year, it will push so many more children into poverty.

:46:40. > :46:43.It's not about adults, it's about the children. Once the government

:46:44. > :46:48.has made the decision to give something to somebody to a family,

:46:49. > :46:49.every month, you do not take it away.

:46:50. > :46:52.Plus, why leading fertility experts say a fixed maximum charge should be

:46:53. > :46:54.introduced on the amount fertility clinics can charge the NHS

:46:55. > :46:59.And if you've been trying to get a ticket for the new Harry Potter

:47:00. > :47:01.play, chances are you're pretty disappointed this morning.

:47:02. > :47:03.We'll tell you the best ways of getting tickets

:47:04. > :47:17.Repeated warnings about the charity Kids Company didn't stop

:47:18. > :47:23.it getting at least ?46 million of public cash, a report says.

:47:24. > :47:26.The National Audit Office says there were concerns as far back as 2002,

:47:27. > :47:29.but Kids Company kept warning of closures if public officials

:47:30. > :47:36.Kathy Evans, the CEO of children's charity Children England, says Kids

:47:37. > :47:48.It's clear from the report they were treated differently, whether it's in

:47:49. > :47:52.the volume of ground they received compare to others, or in the

:47:53. > :47:59.repetitiveness of being given another chance. We now don't have

:48:00. > :48:02.any money from the Department for Education, but we didn't close and

:48:03. > :48:04.had to adjust to the loss. That's the norm for charities.

:48:05. > :48:07.Police are still questioning a youth about the death of Bailey

:48:08. > :48:09.Gwynne - the 16-year-old stabbed at an Aberdeen school yesterday.

:48:10. > :48:12.Friends of Bailey have laid flowers and there'll be

:48:13. > :48:21.The head teacher says pupils and staff are in a state of total shock.

:48:22. > :48:25.The UK's population will rise by 9.7 million over the next 25 years,

:48:26. > :48:28.projections published by the Office for National Statistics show.

:48:29. > :48:31.It's calculated net migration will account account for 51%

:48:32. > :48:42.The rest will come from the natural increase of more births and deaths.

:48:43. > :48:45.The Labour peer, Lord Harris, has accused the government of ignoring

:48:46. > :48:48.a review he conducted on how to reduce the number of young people

:48:49. > :48:51.More than 60 people have taken their lives behind bars

:48:52. > :48:58.More than 2000 British Gas customers have had their email addresses and

:48:59. > :49:04.The energy company has written to warn them of the security breach.

:49:05. > :49:06.It says bank account details wouldn't have been revealed, but the

:49:07. > :49:09.data could have been used to access names, addresses and old bills.

:49:10. > :49:16.Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:49:17. > :49:21.Three England players missed penalties last night as Manchester

:49:22. > :49:25.United were knocked out of the League Cup by Middlesbrough. But

:49:26. > :49:30.Jurgen Klopp witnessed his first victory as Liverpool manager. John

:49:31. > :49:36.Hartson, former Arsenal, West Ham and Celtic player was at Anfield

:49:37. > :49:38.last night. We will start with Manchester United though, not the

:49:39. > :49:46.display their fans will have wanted to C. They didn't play particularly

:49:47. > :49:50.well, hence going out on penalties last night. I think with Chelsea

:49:51. > :49:53.losing the previous night against Stoke and Arsenal losing against

:49:54. > :49:56.Sheffield Wednesday, they might regret the opportunity of not

:49:57. > :50:02.fielding a stronger team last night and trying to win the trophy. You

:50:03. > :50:07.were at Anfield. Jurgen Klopp, always entertaining. Is it working

:50:08. > :50:11.yet? Yes, I think he works with the crowd. There were a couple of times

:50:12. > :50:18.where Roberto Firmino went through and missed. He inside the crowd to

:50:19. > :50:22.not get on his back and stay with him. You can see when they lose the

:50:23. > :50:28.ball they try to get it back as quick as they can. Joao Teixeira,

:50:29. > :50:31.great bit of skill with the backheel, and Nathaniel Clyne

:50:32. > :50:38.followed up really well to score the goal off the rebound. Chelsea, Jose

:50:39. > :50:43.Mourinho, they went out on Tuesday night. Can they get things together

:50:44. > :50:47.on and off the field? I think it would be very naive to think he

:50:48. > :50:53.can't. Jose Mourinho is a renowned winner. He's used to working with

:50:54. > :50:57.top players. Chelsea have an abundance of top players. I think he

:50:58. > :51:02.will it around. Everybody is just waiting for them to get on that run.

:51:03. > :51:06.There have been a few off field problems. He's dropped one or two of

:51:07. > :51:14.his major players, Hazard, Matic, Oscar, Terry, so it's clearly not

:51:15. > :51:17.all happy and great in the camp. But Jose Mourinho is a proven winner and

:51:18. > :51:21.I think he will turn it around eventually. Remember you can see

:51:22. > :51:26.reports from all of last night's matches as well as the quarterfinal

:51:27. > :51:29.draw on the BBC sport website. And we just want to show you this,

:51:30. > :51:33.Celtic went through to the semifinal of the Scottish League Cup last

:51:34. > :51:37.night, Leigh Griffiths with a great individual goal, and he also set up

:51:38. > :51:43.the other one, Celtic beating Hearts 2-1. Great goal by Leigh Griffiths.

:51:44. > :51:49.They won that League Cup last year, so they are trying to hold onto it.

:51:50. > :51:52.We will stay with football, the FA is consulting lawyers after the

:51:53. > :51:55.suspended Fifa President Sepp Blatter's stunning disclosure that

:51:56. > :52:00.there was an agreement in place for the 2018 World Cup to go to Russia

:52:01. > :52:04.before the vote took place. The FA spent ?21 million on the bed

:52:05. > :52:10.including 2.5 million of public money. Chairman Greg Dyke said it

:52:11. > :52:16.would be very nice to get the money back from the bid. Great Britain's

:52:17. > :52:19.men have won eight team medal at the British athletics Championships for

:52:20. > :52:28.the first time. -- at the world athletics Championships. A great

:52:29. > :52:32.floor routine from Max Whitlock secured the gold medal ahead of

:52:33. > :52:36.Japan. Everybody has pulled together and do their job. It was a great

:52:37. > :52:40.display, pulling together, ignoring everything else that's going on, and

:52:41. > :52:45.showing what we are capable. Everybody did their job. Even better

:52:46. > :52:50.at the IPC athletics World Championship with a British clean

:52:51. > :52:55.sweep in Doha. Hannah Cockroft won her second gold of the meeting with

:52:56. > :53:01.a championship record time. Mel Nichols took silver with a

:53:02. > :53:07.14-year-old taking bronze. Richard Whitehead won the 200 metre title

:53:08. > :53:11.for the third time in a row, equalling his own world record in

:53:12. > :53:15.the process. Aled Davies broke the world record twice in winning the

:53:16. > :53:21.discus competition, to add to the gold he won in the shot put.

:53:22. > :53:22.Fantastic performance in Doha. I will be back with more sport at

:53:23. > :53:28.around 10:30am. Good morning, welcome to

:53:29. > :53:29.our programme. We're on BBC 2 and the

:53:30. > :53:32.BBC News Channel until 11:00am. Your contributions to this

:53:33. > :53:47.programme and your expertise Many of you getting in touch about

:53:48. > :53:51.Kids Company. It shows we can't trust ministers to look after our

:53:52. > :53:55.taxes. Some are incompetent amateurs. Colin says the funding to

:53:56. > :53:59.kids company is amazing considering I operated in only three relatively

:54:00. > :54:04.small areas. National funding for something that is anything but

:54:05. > :54:08.national. Another text, I've never contacted a programme before, but I

:54:09. > :54:11.feel so angry about the Kids Company story, all that money for children

:54:12. > :54:15.in three cities. Think what could have been done for other children

:54:16. > :54:30.around the country, especially since it was tax payer's money being used.

:54:31. > :54:35.Wheels appreciate your contributions. And expertise in any

:54:36. > :54:36.area is always welcome. -- we always appreciate.

:54:37. > :54:38.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:54:39. > :54:41.And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you

:54:42. > :54:44.are - via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria

:54:45. > :54:47.-and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

:54:48. > :54:49.by going to add topics and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'

:54:50. > :54:50.Let's get more on that fatal stabbing

:54:51. > :54:54.A 16-year-old boy has been held overnight by police investigating

:54:55. > :54:58.the murder of a fifth-year pupil who has been named as Bailey Gwynne -

:54:59. > :55:04.Our correspondent David Henderson is outside the school for us now.

:55:05. > :55:10.What is the latest? The school remains a crime scene this morning.

:55:11. > :55:17.This is normally a very busy school with more than 1000 pupils here.

:55:18. > :55:21.Police at the gates, and police inside and outside, police providing

:55:22. > :55:25.security at the gates but also continuing with their forensics

:55:26. > :55:33.examination of the crime scene. After that fatal stabbing yesterday

:55:34. > :55:37.lunchtime. Teachers are here as well, more than 100 of them, because

:55:38. > :55:43.this at a really traumatic moment for the school. Nothing like this

:55:44. > :55:49.has happened here, or, for that matter, any school in Scotland for a

:55:50. > :55:53.long time. We understand those teachers are preparing for the

:55:54. > :55:57.coming week. The school will remain closed for the next couple of days,

:55:58. > :56:02.but when pupils return here, probably at the start of next week,

:56:03. > :56:07.there will be a lot of concern, a lot of tears, and a lot of talking

:56:08. > :56:13.to be done before people can put this very traumatic episode behind

:56:14. > :56:18.them. In the meantime, the police investigation continues. A

:56:19. > :56:22.16-year-old boy, who was detained by police in the aftermath of the fatal

:56:23. > :56:26.stabbing yesterday, remains at a police station. We are told he is

:56:27. > :56:32.helping police with their enquiries. He may continue to do so for the

:56:33. > :56:36.next few hours. In the meantime, what we have seen over the last few

:56:37. > :56:41.hours is lots of youngsters, teenagers, bringing flowers to the

:56:42. > :56:46.gates. You can probably see dozens of bouquets of flowers with

:56:47. > :56:54.heartfelt tributes to the 16-year-old pupil who died. We have

:56:55. > :57:00.flowers and cards from fellow pupils, from parents and teachers,

:57:01. > :57:04.from people in the local community who are just shocked and horrified

:57:05. > :57:11.by what has happened. Can you tell us any more about Bailey Gwynne, the

:57:12. > :57:21.16-year-old who died? What we know is that he was a pupil in fifth year

:57:22. > :57:25.of senior school, 16 years of age. Somebody through the teachers

:57:26. > :57:30.referred to, the headteacher referred to as a gentle and caring

:57:31. > :57:35.pupil, somebody with lots of friends. A well liked young man. It

:57:36. > :57:38.seems from what we can gather that he seems to have been a good guy,

:57:39. > :57:44.somebody who got on well with people. Somebody who was quiet, but

:57:45. > :57:50.was friendly and fitted in well. He had been at another school before

:57:51. > :57:55.this one, he came here a year or two ago. But he seems to have done well

:57:56. > :58:02.to fit in and get to know people in his year and make a good impression.

:58:03. > :58:09.For all concerned, his friends and teachers, they are just shocked and

:58:10. > :58:11.appalled as to why he, of all people, should be a victim of a

:58:12. > :58:15.fatal stabbing. Joining me now

:58:16. > :58:17.from Nottingham is a former school principal, Dr Belinda Harris,

:58:18. > :58:20.who is now a child psychotherapist How does a school cope with

:58:21. > :58:30.a tragedy like this? It sounds to me like they are

:58:31. > :58:34.already beginning to do some of the right things, bringing all the

:58:35. > :58:38.teachers together to develop a strategy for how they will support

:58:39. > :58:41.the children and young people as soon as the police have closed down

:58:42. > :58:48.the crime scene. That's really important. The leadership team and

:58:49. > :58:53.teaching staff will also need support to begin to talk about and

:58:54. > :59:01.communicate their own feelings and shock and sadness about this

:59:02. > :59:03.terrible event. The school is closed because the police investigation

:59:04. > :59:09.continues. Is that a good thing for the pupils? It's essential for the

:59:10. > :59:17.police to do that. As soon as it can open, the better for the pupils. Why

:59:18. > :59:20.do you say that? Because they need to gather. Particularly adolescents,

:59:21. > :59:28.they like to gather in groups, and they are led by their peers. It's

:59:29. > :59:32.important that they should be together to communicate their grief

:59:33. > :59:37.and distress to one another and support one another. The teachers

:59:38. > :59:42.and kids together will have to build their capacity to support one

:59:43. > :59:46.another for a long time to come. This will have reverberations, not

:59:47. > :59:52.just over the next week, but over the coming months and years, as

:59:53. > :59:58.people who are in year seven in the school now, they will move up

:59:59. > :00:02.through and share that history. Will you expect the head teacher to bring

:00:03. > :00:07.in councillors to speak to pupils and members of staff? I would hope

:00:08. > :00:10.that support will be available to the headteacher. Not particularly to

:00:11. > :00:16.deal with individuals, apart from those young people who were closest

:00:17. > :00:24.to both of the young people involved in the incident, but mainly to work

:00:25. > :00:29.with groups using creative approaches, I would say. That's so

:00:30. > :00:31.people can work together to release the distress and discharge their

:00:32. > :00:37.emotions from their bodies by doing things together full stop it might

:00:38. > :00:41.be creating a col arch, a theatre piece, whatever the kids want to do

:00:42. > :00:46.to communicate and support one another. Perhaps some of the

:00:47. > :00:53.children who go to the school, and their parents, might ask, is my

:00:54. > :01:00.child safe? The pupils themselves, are we safe? I think in a traumatic

:01:01. > :01:04.situation like this, that's the first thing to be completely

:01:05. > :01:08.undermined, people's sense of safety. Particularly in a school

:01:09. > :01:12.community and local community where there is less crime than elsewhere.

:01:13. > :01:16.It's not a big inner-city that is used to it, people are in shock.

:01:17. > :01:21.That worries me about the children during these few days when they are

:01:22. > :01:25.apart, and they are using social media to communicate with each

:01:26. > :01:29.other, that their sense of Ealing unsafe is intensified because they

:01:30. > :01:33.are not with their friends. -- sense of feeling unsafe. All of that is

:01:34. > :01:42.part two moving through their grief. Belinda is a psychotherapist at the

:01:43. > :01:45.University of Nottingham. Leading fertility experts have told

:01:46. > :01:48.this programme a fixed maximum charge should be introduced

:01:49. > :01:52.on the amount fertility clinics can charge the NHS in England

:01:53. > :01:54.for providing IVF treatment. One in every 50 babies born

:01:55. > :01:58.in the UK is as a result of IVF, but access to it can vary greatly

:01:59. > :02:00.depending on where Our health correspondent,

:02:01. > :02:14.Jane Dreaper, can tell us more. What are couples are entitled to

:02:15. > :02:21.receive on the NHS? They can expect full three cycles of IVF on the NHS

:02:22. > :02:25.if they are under 40 and had been trying to get pregnant for two

:02:26. > :02:30.years, that guidance have -- has come from the health Watchdog but

:02:31. > :02:33.they are recommendations are not always consistent throughout

:02:34. > :02:38.England. This problem has been going on for about a decade. Huge

:02:39. > :02:42.variation. In Scotland and Wales, it is more like two. Will is on the

:02:43. > :02:47.NHS, but they have got more consistency than the other nations.

:02:48. > :02:53.Scotland has put in a lot of money and energy into tackling waiting

:02:54. > :02:57.times. Why are there such variations across England especially? Because

:02:58. > :03:03.IVF provision can often be targeted when health groups looking to save

:03:04. > :03:08.money. It is something some people question, why do we spend money on

:03:09. > :03:11.infertility treatment? It can still be a controversial area for some

:03:12. > :03:16.people. In some areas have historically got rules about the age

:03:17. > :03:21.limits of women and whether previous children from other partners and

:03:22. > :03:26.relationships are a factor, although NICE says that should not be a

:03:27. > :03:32.factor. And the fertility experts, what do they say? They want to see a

:03:33. > :03:37.cap. This group of fertility doctors say there should be a cap on the

:03:38. > :03:39.amount the NHS pays credit clinics for treatment because there is huge

:03:40. > :03:44.variation in that as well. Here to discuss the issue is

:03:45. > :03:47.Professor Geeta Nargund, the medical Director at Create Fertility clinics

:03:48. > :03:49.and a leading figure in the UK fertility sector, alongside Isabella

:03:50. > :03:52.Lafferty, who was refused IVF on the NHS and has spent 50,000

:03:53. > :04:02.on private treatment. Professor, how much should one cycle

:04:03. > :04:08.of IVF treatment cost? At the moment, as you heard, there is a

:04:09. > :04:16.variation. A massive variation. Some areas, it is about ?1000. Others,

:04:17. > :04:24.?10,000. I do not think ?1000, it is between ?5,000, up to ?6,000. That

:04:25. > :04:28.is totally acceptable. Equal and fair access to treatment is a

:04:29. > :04:32.fundamental value of the National Health Service and that is not

:04:33. > :04:38.happening here, which is a scandal. Tell me why IVF providers,

:04:39. > :04:45.contracted by the NHS, why are they charging sometimes ?6,000 and

:04:46. > :04:51.sometimes ?3000? At the moment, the CCGs Commission it individually. I

:04:52. > :04:57.believe if they do it collaboratively, they will achieve

:04:58. > :05:00.economies of scale and cost savings. We will return to you because we

:05:01. > :05:05.have bikinis. We can talk to our political

:05:06. > :05:10.responds to -- breaking news. What is happening?

:05:11. > :05:14.We have seen on the Iraq enquiries website a letter posted from the

:05:15. > :05:19.chairman, Sir John Chilcot, to the Prime Minister, a letter sent

:05:20. > :05:23.yesterday outlining the timetable for the eventual publication of his

:05:24. > :05:29.report. This has been a long time coming. In this letter sent from Sir

:05:30. > :05:33.John Chilcot the Prime Minister, we have learned this document should be

:05:34. > :05:39.published in June or July of next year. The entire report will be

:05:40. > :05:44.completed we are told by the middle of April, but after that, it will be

:05:45. > :05:49.sent to national security for the process of screening so we will not

:05:50. > :05:54.see it until next summer. By that stage, we will be more than five

:05:55. > :05:57.years on from the last person to give evidence. Such has been the

:05:58. > :06:03.longevity of the process in pulling together the information so John and

:06:04. > :06:05.his team needs to complete their work but we now at least have a

:06:06. > :06:12.timetable. And tell us again what Sir John

:06:13. > :06:20.Chilcot has been looking at all this time. Yes, a huge amount. In 2009,

:06:21. > :06:24.the 15th of June 2009, the then Prime Minister Gordon Brown said

:06:25. > :06:28.there was a necessity to set up an enquiry looking into the lessons

:06:29. > :06:35.that could be learnt from the Iraq war, over a huge period. 2001 to

:06:36. > :06:38.2009, looking at the build-up to the Iraq war, whether troops were

:06:39. > :06:44.trained and equipped correctly and looking at the aftermath of the war

:06:45. > :06:50.itself. The beginnings of the process of gathering evidence then

:06:51. > :06:54.began with all sorts of leading lights from the New Labour in Iraq

:06:55. > :07:01.and senior voices from the Foreign Office and elsewhere giving evidence

:07:02. > :07:06.in public. The last evidence session was on February two 2011. At the

:07:07. > :07:12.time, we were told by Chilcot it would be some months before the

:07:13. > :07:18.final report would be published. It is 56 months since that and we have

:07:19. > :07:21.another seven, eight months until we actually see it. One reason that has

:07:22. > :07:29.been given for the delay is a process known as allowing those

:07:30. > :07:33.people being referred to and criticised in the report to see a

:07:34. > :07:37.draft of that criticism and allow them to respond to it. Given the

:07:38. > :07:42.number of people they have spoken to, that is a process that has

:07:43. > :07:49.clearly been taking some time. This is the latter. You can see it here.

:07:50. > :07:54.Six or seven paragraphs. A couple of hundred words. To give you the

:07:55. > :07:59.specific dates, they hope to complete the text of the report in

:08:00. > :08:03.the week commencing the 18th of April 2016. It says, at that point,

:08:04. > :08:07.national-security checking of contents by a team of officials who

:08:08. > :08:12.will be given confidential access to the report on your behalf can begin.

:08:13. > :08:17.It is estimated that will take a couple of months. It says, I

:08:18. > :08:21.consider once national-security checking has been completed, it

:08:22. > :08:25.should be possible to agree a date for publication in June or July

:08:26. > :08:29.2016. We expect to hear from the Prime Minister's official

:08:30. > :08:33.spokeswoman within about half an hour at the lobby briefing at

:08:34. > :08:37.Westminster for political respond -- for political reporters to hear his

:08:38. > :08:41.response, he has been critical of the delay. I also expect more

:08:42. > :08:47.criticism from the families of those who lost their lives in Iraq. 179

:08:48. > :08:51.service personnel were killed in Iraq from the UK. No doubt huge

:08:52. > :08:57.frustration from them that the wait continues to find out.

:08:58. > :09:04.Thank you. Reg Keys, his son was killed in 2003 in the Iraq war. Good

:09:05. > :09:07.morning. How do you react to the fact that this report finally, you

:09:08. > :09:13.will get to see it in June next year?

:09:14. > :09:20.It is with a certain amount of anger because I think this delay has gone

:09:21. > :09:27.on far too long. The enquiry was first started back in 2009 and we

:09:28. > :09:36.are now looking at 2016. It is seven years which is far too long. He

:09:37. > :09:40.allowed this ridiculous process to run on too long. It was something

:09:41. > :09:45.like two years. Six months would have been fine. There was no legal

:09:46. > :09:50.requirement for him to do that and all we will get now from the report

:09:51. > :09:55.is a watered-down version of some of the criticisms Sir John put the

:09:56. > :10:00.civil servants and senior politicians in general.

:10:01. > :10:06.Why are you so sure it will be watered down criticism as you put

:10:07. > :10:11.it? Because under the process, any criticisms put these people, they

:10:12. > :10:15.will have the opportunity to respond. And no doubt they will

:10:16. > :10:19.respond to this through legal channels so you will have caught

:10:20. > :10:25.cases going on along with the enquiry and Sir John will eventually

:10:26. > :10:30.published a criticism both sides feel is exceptional -- acceptable.

:10:31. > :10:34.It is like going into a court room to watch a case and you cannot hear

:10:35. > :10:40.the original charges put the keys, only the sanitised version. The

:10:41. > :10:43.families will not hear the original criticisms that Sir John pot to Tony

:10:44. > :10:48.Blair, Alistair Campbell and other senior figures, only what they

:10:49. > :10:54.believe was acceptable in the end. And the date of June next year, we

:10:55. > :11:00.see no reason why it could not have been treated before Christmas. There

:11:01. > :11:09.is a defining line between delivery of the enquiry and publication. Just

:11:10. > :11:12.listening ever little earlier, we understand it will be delivered in

:11:13. > :11:19.April for checking, national-security, and published in

:11:20. > :11:25.June. I think we can go back to Chris Mason at Westminster. He has

:11:26. > :11:27.been looking further on the website. Is that right? You have more

:11:28. > :11:33.information? Some more information. From this

:11:34. > :11:39.letter from Sir John Chilcot to the premise to, the final report will be

:11:40. > :11:44.more than 2 million words in total. -- Prime Minister. To unpick the

:11:45. > :11:48.justification for the delay between the completion of the report in

:11:49. > :11:53.April and its publication in June, July, they say the reason for the

:11:54. > :11:56.delay is firstly one of national security to ensure they do not

:11:57. > :12:02.inadvertently each muscle security with the contents, and given its

:12:03. > :12:07.length, they anticipate that will take time -- national-security. And

:12:08. > :12:10.to ensure it is within the government's obligations under

:12:11. > :12:14.Article two of the European Convention on Human Rights rights.

:12:15. > :12:20.So the process will take less between April and June and July next

:12:21. > :12:24.year when the report will be completed but it will be subjected

:12:25. > :12:29.to external checks. Mr Keys, 2 million words in total, I

:12:30. > :12:35.wonder what kind of things you were hoping the Chilcot report would

:12:36. > :12:44.address? Well, I need to know why we had this ridiculous rush to war. On

:12:45. > :12:49.the false sort of weapons of mass destruction and why Tony Blair felt

:12:50. > :12:53.it necessary to mislead Parliament, the public and those great troops

:12:54. > :12:56.including my son who went out believing they were going to face

:12:57. > :13:03.this onslaught of weapons of mass destruction. I hope it answers

:13:04. > :13:08.questions about the colon Powell e-mail saying Tony was on board 12

:13:09. > :13:14.months before and he would handle the PR -- Colin Powell. That was in

:13:15. > :13:21.November 2002, months before we went to war, he said Saddam Hussein could

:13:22. > :13:24.stay in power if he handed over weapons of mass destruction. It was

:13:25. > :13:30.a deceit and a lot of brave young men and women died in that conflict

:13:31. > :13:35.and over 150,000 innocent Iraqi men and women and children. We need

:13:36. > :13:40.answers, not just the families of the fallen in this country. I

:13:41. > :13:44.attended two sessions of the Iraq enquiry and was surprised to see

:13:45. > :13:47.Iraqi families who want to know why they lost loved ones in this

:13:48. > :13:52.unjustified conflict. Saddam Hussein was no threat at that time and you

:13:53. > :13:57.cannot justify the war that George Bush and Tony Blair and the spin

:13:58. > :14:03.machine got us involved in. I am sure it you will have heard the

:14:04. > :14:07.interview Tony Blair at the weekend where he said he cannot apologise

:14:08. > :14:12.for removing Saddam Hussein? Nobody is going to support Saddam Hussain,

:14:13. > :14:21.it he was no doubt an evil dictator. But I would almost guaranteed there

:14:22. > :14:26.would be no IS in Iraq under him. It would not be a fermenting ground for

:14:27. > :14:33.breeding terrorism. We've removed Saddam Hussein and created that

:14:34. > :14:37.power vacuum filled by these warring factions. Tony Blair did allude to

:14:38. > :14:41.this in that interview, about the Arab Spring in 2011. Perhaps the

:14:42. > :14:47.recce people themselves would have dealt with Saddam and it would not

:14:48. > :14:52.have exacerbated -- the recce people. It has spiralled in the

:14:53. > :14:56.Middle East towards the West. Thank you for talking to us this

:14:57. > :15:01.morning, Reg Keys. The Chilcot report into the Iraq war will

:15:02. > :15:07.finally be published in June next year after its last took evidence in

:15:08. > :15:11.2011. Back to our conversation about IVF

:15:12. > :15:16.after the news and sport. The latest headlines.

:15:17. > :15:18.The long-awaited and controversial Chilcot inquiry

:15:19. > :15:21.into the Iraq War has a date for publication - at last.

:15:22. > :15:23.Sir John Chilcot, the chair, says it should be ready

:15:24. > :15:32.The father of a soldier killed in Iraq 12 years ago says it's still

:15:33. > :15:35.not good enough. Repeated warnings about

:15:36. > :15:37.the charity Kids Company didn't stop it getting at least ?46 million

:15:38. > :15:40.of public cash, a report says. The National Audit Office says there

:15:41. > :15:43.were worries as far back as 2002, but Kids Company kept warning

:15:44. > :15:46.of closures if public officials Kathy Evans, the CEO of children's

:15:47. > :15:50.charity Children England, says Kids It's clear from the report they were

:15:51. > :16:00.treated differently, whether it's in the volume

:16:01. > :16:03.of grant they received compare to others, or in the repetitiveness

:16:04. > :16:07.of being given another chance. We now don't have any money

:16:08. > :16:12.from the Department for Education, but we didn't close

:16:13. > :16:15.and had to adjust to the loss. Police are still questioning

:16:16. > :16:30.a youth about the death of Bailey Gwynne - the 16-year-old stabbed

:16:31. > :16:38.at an Aberdeen school yesterday. The UK's population will go up by

:16:39. > :16:42.9.7 million over the next 25 years - that's according to projections from

:16:43. > :16:44.the Office for National Statistics. Net immigration will count for

:16:45. > :16:54.just over half the predicted rise. The rest will come from the natural

:16:55. > :17:03.increase of more births than deaths. A gay man has won

:17:04. > :17:05.the first ever compensation award for discrimination based entirely

:17:06. > :17:07.on homophobic gestures. The man was subjected to months

:17:08. > :17:10.of taunts based on his sexuality. It's believed to be

:17:11. > :17:12.the first ever case of discrimination based on a case

:17:13. > :17:21.when not a single word was spoken. The Labour peer Lord Harris has

:17:22. > :17:24.accused the government of ignoring a review he conducted on how to

:17:25. > :17:27.reduce the number of young people More than 60 people have taken

:17:28. > :17:30.their lives behind bars More than 2,000 British Gas

:17:31. > :17:35.customers have had their email addresses and account

:17:36. > :17:37.passwords posted online. The energy company has written to

:17:38. > :17:40.warn them of the security breach. It says the data could have been

:17:41. > :17:43.used to access names, Let's catch up with all

:17:44. > :18:00.the sport now. The main headlines in sport, three

:18:01. > :18:04.England players missed penalties as Manchester United were knocked out

:18:05. > :18:07.of the League Cup. It was goalless against Championship side

:18:08. > :18:10.Middlesbrough after extra time but Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick and

:18:11. > :18:16.Ashley Young all missed from the spot. The FA is consulting lawyers

:18:17. > :18:20.after suspended Fifa president said blatter revealed that there was an

:18:21. > :18:25.agreement in place for the 2018 World Cup to go to Russia before the

:18:26. > :18:28.vote took place. Great Britain's men have won 18 medal at the world

:18:29. > :18:32.gymnastics Championships for the first time. A superb floor routine

:18:33. > :18:38.from Max Whitlock secured silver medal. Hannah Cockroft led a British

:18:39. > :18:46.Queen soup at the IPC world athletics Championships in Doha.

:18:47. > :18:53.Also gold medals for Richard Whitehead and Aled Davies. And Sam

:18:54. > :18:57.Burgess has been given time off by Bath as he considers his future in

:18:58. > :19:01.rugby union. He has been speaking to former rugby league club Sydney, but

:19:02. > :19:07.his coach at Bath hopes huge stays with the sport.

:19:08. > :19:14.We can carry on a conversation with leading fertility experts who say a

:19:15. > :19:24.fixed maximum charge should be imposed on clinics providing IVF in

:19:25. > :19:39.Britain. One in 50 babies born in the UK is born through IVF.

:19:40. > :19:49.Professor, you were trying to explain why in some parts of England

:19:50. > :19:53.IVF providers are charging the NHS ?2000 for a cycle of IVF, and in

:19:54. > :19:59.other parts of England it can be ?6,000. That's not at all consistent

:20:00. > :20:03.with the values of the NHS, it's supposed to be equal and fair

:20:04. > :20:14.access. The inconsistency in price is unacceptable. The reason why,

:20:15. > :20:17.generally clinical commissioning groups commission individually, and

:20:18. > :20:25.they do not have the resources and knowledge base to understand how

:20:26. > :20:31.much and IVF cycle should cost. That is why there is such inconsistency.

:20:32. > :20:35.What I'm calling for is a maximum price, a national tariff for one

:20:36. > :20:40.cycle of IVF treatment, which is exactly the same across the nation.

:20:41. > :20:44.That fits in beautifully with what the National Health Service stands

:20:45. > :20:49.for, increasing access to IVF for many more women and couples across

:20:50. > :20:55.the country within the existing budget. It could double the number

:20:56. > :21:02.of cycles in many regions where they are paying 6000 as opposed to 3000

:21:03. > :21:08.in other regions. What the CCGs should aim to do is commission

:21:09. > :21:14.collaboratively, join hands together with many CCGs, the same price, this

:21:15. > :21:18.is what they will pay, and then they will achieve economies of scale. It

:21:19. > :21:26.does happen with hip operations, heart operations, does it? Many

:21:27. > :21:33.treatments in the NHS have a national tariff, which is what the

:21:34. > :21:39.hospitals abide by. They have two abide by the national tariff to get

:21:40. > :21:41.the contract. IVF, a treatment that is essential for many women and

:21:42. > :21:49.couples who are devastated by the fact they can't get access to IVF

:21:50. > :21:54.through the NHS, they don't have the money or don't know where to turn

:21:55. > :21:57.to. It's extremely important that we as a nation address this urgently. I

:21:58. > :22:03.hope the Department of Health, because I wrote to Jeremy Hunt in

:22:04. > :22:10.July about this to take notice of it, and it will give more couples

:22:11. > :22:16.access to cycles of IVF within the existing budget. I have not had a

:22:17. > :22:22.reply from the Health Secretary. Why were you turned down for IVF on the

:22:23. > :22:27.NHS? We were turned down because my partner already had children. It's

:22:28. > :22:31.very disappointing for me, the fact he has had children doesn't mean

:22:32. > :22:36.that I don't want them, and we want them together. I am still yearning

:22:37. > :22:41.for a child. It was disappointing. What do you think about the huge

:22:42. > :22:45.variation in charges across England? I think it's a scandal, a dreadful

:22:46. > :22:52.scandal. Women who struggle with fertility problems go through all

:22:53. > :22:57.sorts of anxiety, depression and trauma. This is an absolute scandal.

:22:58. > :23:04.If the NHS can buy better, purchase a cycle for two or ?3000, why not do

:23:05. > :23:09.so? I spent as much as ?15,000 on one cycle. That was in a very

:23:10. > :23:16.well-known London clinic. But that wasn't successful. At least you have

:23:17. > :23:22.the money to be able to do that? I was very fortunate. We had money but

:23:23. > :23:31.aside for a wedding, but instead of using it for that, we used it for a

:23:32. > :23:35.cycle of IVF. You're told at the beginning it will be several

:23:36. > :23:39.thousand pounds, and you are encouraged to make many add-ons as

:23:40. > :23:45.the time goes on. If the NHS can cap it then that will be right and more

:23:46. > :23:52.women can have treatment. In Europe, it's funded a lot more. Six cycles

:23:53. > :23:56.per year. And they have achieved it. In Belgium, for example, the

:23:57. > :24:05.national tariff was established, they paid 4000 euros. No extras. It

:24:06. > :24:07.can be done, it has being done, and we should do it.

:24:08. > :24:10.More than 4,000 migrants and refugees have had to be rescued

:24:11. > :24:14.off the shores of Lesbos this month alone.

:24:15. > :24:18.Hundreds have already died making the crossing from Turkey and Greece.

:24:19. > :24:20.There are fears more could drown as the winter approaches

:24:21. > :24:28.But the people trafficking has become a multi million dollar

:24:29. > :24:30.industry for the smugglers and up to 9000 people are landing

:24:31. > :24:36.We sent our correspondent Ed Thomas to the island and in just 4 hours

:24:37. > :24:54.at sea he counted 22 boats packed full of people making the crossing.

:24:55. > :24:58.We've only been out at sea for a few minutes and already,

:24:59. > :25:02.we've spotted this boat leaving Turkey, trying to get to Greece.

:25:03. > :25:06.Behind it, there's another orange dot, another boat arriving.

:25:07. > :25:28.What it tells you is that this flow is constant now.

:25:29. > :25:31.You can see fathers holding their children.

:25:32. > :25:34.Many of the people have not got any life jackets on at all.

:25:35. > :25:39.There is a father there in the middle just holding on to his child.

:25:40. > :25:42.Who would put all those people onto that boat, pack them in, and then

:25:43. > :25:58.We can hear whistles and shouts coming from that boat.

:25:59. > :26:00.People waving, trying to get our attention.

:26:01. > :26:03.It's right in the middle of the Aegean Sea,

:26:04. > :26:24.This is the exact centre between Turkey over there

:26:25. > :26:36.Now, you won't be able to see them down the lens of the camera,

:26:37. > :26:38.but I can tell you we have one boat on the horizon there,

:26:39. > :26:41.another boat full of refugees and migrants over there, there are

:26:42. > :26:47.I can see the specks of the orange life jackets.

:26:48. > :26:53.And towards Greece, towards the bay down there, we can see two

:26:54. > :27:04.There is a child at the front of the boat, she is

:27:05. > :27:09.I don't think any of those people there have realised

:27:10. > :27:15.And it's just luck if they make it across without

:27:16. > :27:27.Kostas, how many years have you been fishing for?

:27:28. > :27:33.You found seven people drowned in the sea?

:27:34. > :27:50.All of them were together, people were wearing life jackets.

:27:51. > :27:53.Others were not wearing life jackets, but they were all together,

:27:54. > :28:26.And remember, every woman, man and child

:28:27. > :28:33.The going rate is around 1,000 - 2,000 euros just to get a seat

:28:34. > :28:51.This shows you just how big a business this has become now.

:28:52. > :28:55.That boat has been towed away and is being used to smuggle and traffic

:28:56. > :29:02.It's the biggest ship we have seen doing this

:29:03. > :29:19.Hello! BBC News!

:29:20. > :29:24.We thought maybe you were a smuggler boat.

:29:25. > :29:37.They're yards from the shore, so close to Greece,

:29:38. > :29:43.And there is an argument now about what to do.

:29:44. > :29:50.It shows you that these people are not professionals,

:29:51. > :29:55.they don't know the seas and that is why so many are dying in this narrow

:29:56. > :30:00.And this is what it is all about - reaching Europe.

:30:01. > :30:02.As these people were crossing, they were shouting, Syria!

:30:03. > :30:05.They were cheering, they were screaming, as soon

:30:06. > :30:10.But this is just the beginning of the journey.

:30:11. > :30:12.They go on from here up through Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia,

:30:13. > :30:15.trying to get to Austria, then Germany or Sweden or Denmark.

:30:16. > :30:33.And to try to begin their lives again.

:30:34. > :30:43.Breaking news, model and MTV presenter Sam Sarpong has died after

:30:44. > :30:49.jumping off a bridge in America, he is the brother of June. The

:30:50. > :30:53.40-year-old who lives in California died after officers spent seven

:30:54. > :30:58.years trying -- after officers spent seven months -- hours trying to talk

:30:59. > :31:02.him down. June has paid tribute saying his passing is a loss to the

:31:03. > :31:07.world. She has said in a straight meant, I love my brother very much.

:31:08. > :31:11.Sam was an amazing human being. His passing is a loss for the world. I

:31:12. > :31:17.would ask anybody going through tough times to get help, please talk

:31:18. > :31:23.to someone. That is the tribute of June towards her brother Sam

:31:24. > :31:29.Sarpong, a model and TV is enter who died after jumping off a bridge in

:31:30. > :31:34.the United States. Here, this bit of news regarding Paul Gascoigne. He

:31:35. > :31:38.has pleaded guilty to harassment of his former girlfriend and guilty to

:31:39. > :31:41.assaulting a photographer at Bournemouth Magistrates' Court, in

:31:42. > :31:46.the last minute. Paul Gascoigne has pleaded guilty to harassing his

:31:47. > :31:49.former girlfriend and assaulting a photographer as he entered a guilty

:31:50. > :31:52.plea at Bournemouth Magistrates' Court.

:31:53. > :31:55.From the first movie, The Philosopher's Stone, to the last

:31:56. > :31:58.movie, The Deathly Hallows, the fanbase for Harry Potter films has

:31:59. > :32:05.grown massively, and now its creator is taking the first Harry Potter

:32:06. > :32:08.story to the stage, in a two-part play to make its world premiere

:32:09. > :32:13.But if you've been trying to get a ticket, chances are you're pretty

:32:14. > :32:16.Tickets for those who'd already registered online sold out within

:32:17. > :32:19.an hour, but more do go on general sale tomorrow.

:32:20. > :32:24.Matt Hemley is News Editor at The Stage - a theatre magazine.

:32:25. > :32:31.And we can also speak to some who tried, and failed, to get tickets.

:32:32. > :32:38.And we've got Megan Lucas, in Northampton,

:32:39. > :32:54.What do we know so far? It is a play in two parts. Harry Potter and his

:32:55. > :32:58.first child and it picks up where the seventh book finished. He is a

:32:59. > :33:04.father of three school-aged children. My God! I know, it his

:33:05. > :33:10.relationship is very much with his younger son. I think the past comes

:33:11. > :33:15.back. A big deal for the West End? A huge deal, if you look at her books

:33:16. > :33:18.and reading, I imagine that will work for theatre and so many people

:33:19. > :33:30.will come to see the show. It will be an event. It is over two nights?

:33:31. > :33:37.And you can get tickets for ?50. No, ?30 for two nights. Up to hundreds?

:33:38. > :33:41.It goes up to ?130 for both parts. ?65 for each performance. In terms

:33:42. > :33:47.of the West End, it is quite good value. Some shows go over ?200 at

:33:48. > :33:52.the moment. So the issue is not the price, it is the fact that as always

:33:53. > :33:56.with these things, Jessica, demand outstrips supply, what happened to

:33:57. > :34:04.you? I've found out through Priority Booking -- I spent two hours through

:34:05. > :34:08.parity taking -- Priority Booking trying to get tickets and I could

:34:09. > :34:15.not, so just a bit disappointed. I am quite disappointed. How old are

:34:16. > :34:20.you? I am 25. You are too old for Harry Potter! A group of with the

:34:21. > :34:27.books and I read them countless times. -- I grew up with. Very

:34:28. > :34:31.enough, I was not being rude, I was checking your age. What happened

:34:32. > :34:38.with you? I queued for 4.5 hours waiting for tickets and I did not

:34:39. > :34:43.get any. So you are queueing, or on the website? Queueing on the

:34:44. > :34:50.website. Did you get a Countdown for where you were in the queue? Yes,

:34:51. > :34:57.there was a list of people and I started at about 22,000 in the

:34:58. > :35:03.queue. No way! It was really long. So you decided to wait? How far down

:35:04. > :35:07.did you get? I did get to the end and the website had technical

:35:08. > :35:11.issues. They said there was a lot of availability at the did not update

:35:12. > :35:17.when they ran out of availability so I was furiously clicking, hoping for

:35:18. > :35:20.something but nothing came up. So you did get to the front of the

:35:21. > :35:26.queue through those thousands of other people? Yes, I did. Oh, no! It

:35:27. > :35:33.was really frustrating. You are still smiling! Yes, yes. Just a

:35:34. > :35:40.shame I will miss the play. Yes, it is. Katie, your technical problems,

:35:41. > :35:45.you did not even get to queue. I did not get to that stage. I did not

:35:46. > :35:50.even get the link once I had subscribed to the show to create an

:35:51. > :35:53.account which was where they were selling tickets from the website. I

:35:54. > :36:00.did not even get to the stage where I could queue and nobody was

:36:01. > :36:04.available to help me on the day. Realistically, did you think you are

:36:05. > :36:09.unlikely to get one anyway? So many people wanted them. At the end of

:36:10. > :36:14.it, there were tickets available and people were getting tickets. There

:36:15. > :36:18.were so many technical problems on the day, they did not anticipate how

:36:19. > :36:25.many people were fans of the books, which seems absurd. The organisers

:36:26. > :36:28.of the play said, customers can be assured we were doing everything to

:36:29. > :36:34.ensure the process was as smooth and efficient as possible. I question

:36:35. > :36:38.that quite a hit. Twitter was very hit and miss with who they replied

:36:39. > :36:43.to. It was only when you gave them bad PR that they noticed you on

:36:44. > :36:47.Twitter and even then, once they got to direct messaging, it took hours

:36:48. > :36:52.to reply and even those messages were not helpful enough to get

:36:53. > :36:56.tickets. Megan, what about you? It was different, I was trying to get

:36:57. > :37:01.wheelchair tickets. I needed axis of all space. I spent five or six hours

:37:02. > :37:06.on the phone yesterday. Phone system was not set up with queues. We were

:37:07. > :37:11.left on hold for half an hour and it would cut out. So while the regular

:37:12. > :37:16.tickets had a queue system, there was nothing for wheelchair tickets.

:37:17. > :37:21.They had plenty of time to realise there would be that kind of demand,

:37:22. > :37:25.we preregistered. There was no real excuse for not being prepared for

:37:26. > :37:34.the demand. And what happened in the end? Eventually, after my messaged

:37:35. > :37:39.the Twitter feed, the polite box office manager gave me a call and I

:37:40. > :37:43.was able to book tickets but only because I was determined and other

:37:44. > :37:48.people in the same situation could quite easily have been disappointed.

:37:49. > :37:53.But more tickets will go on sale, is this right? Yes, general public

:37:54. > :37:56.tickets go on sale tomorrow morning and they have announced they have

:37:57. > :38:02.extended the booking period and they will do so again tomorrow. And to be

:38:03. > :38:07.fair to them, 100s and 5,000 people did get tickets is today. So

:38:08. > :38:10.although we have had bad stories, and 75,000 people were successful,

:38:11. > :38:15.that a huge number to get the kids in one day so in some respects, the

:38:16. > :38:21.system did work to accommodate that many people. You going to try it

:38:22. > :38:30.again, Jessica? Definitely, yes. Good luck! Thank you. Good luck if

:38:31. > :38:35.you are going to keep trying. We can bring you this news, it is just one

:38:36. > :38:38.line. It says that China is abandoning its one child policy,

:38:39. > :38:44.allowing two children for all couples if they should want them. So

:38:45. > :38:47.dramatic news from China, they are abandoning their one child policy,

:38:48. > :38:52.allowing two children for all couples, which will have indications

:38:53. > :38:58.for the huge population. More on that on BBC news throughout the day.

:38:59. > :39:01.A gay man has won the first of compensation award for

:39:02. > :39:04.discrimination based and highly on homophobic gestures. In an exclusive

:39:05. > :39:10.interview, Tim, not his real name, tells us about the months of

:39:11. > :39:13.tolerance he was subject to based on his sexuality. He sued a locksmith

:39:14. > :39:18.called Peter Edwards and the Equality Act and he want what is

:39:19. > :39:22.believed to be the first ever case of discrimination based on a case

:39:23. > :39:26.when not a single word was spoken. He has been talking to our legal

:39:27. > :39:35.eagle, Clive Coleman. I would describe it as a very minor

:39:36. > :39:42.difference of opinion. It was about some goods that I bought from a

:39:43. > :39:49.shop. Quite close to me. It never even got heated. The gentleman

:39:50. > :39:55.concerned, the individual just became a little bit defensive. He

:39:56. > :40:04.blew a sarcastic kiss at me. As I was leaving the shop, on that

:40:05. > :40:11.particular incident. I was in shock really after that. It would range

:40:12. > :40:18.from low-level sarcastic winking at me, sarcastic kissing at me like you

:40:19. > :40:28.would see perhaps in a film. You know? You know? From a distance. But

:40:29. > :40:34.he was looking at me. He put his hand on his hip. The sort of teapot

:40:35. > :40:41.if you want to call it 80 but. You know? A limp wrist, if you like.

:40:42. > :40:51.Hand on the hip? Yes, that kind of stuff. It was what I would call vile

:40:52. > :40:56.and vulgar homophobic gestures. It is not pleasant to talk about. Can

:40:57. > :41:07.you tell me the kinds of things? The wording I would use is inferring

:41:08. > :41:16.oral sex with a man. This was 2013 it started initially. Into 2014. Not

:41:17. > :41:21.1913, to 1914. How did it make you feel that you were the subject of

:41:22. > :41:28.this sort of mocking and abuse? I was his joke, I think, his bit of

:41:29. > :41:35.fun. The source of his amusement. I don't know what his mindset was. It

:41:36. > :41:39.was surreal. That is Tim, not his real name,

:41:40. > :41:42.talking to Clive Coleman. We contacted Taylor Edwards and that

:41:43. > :41:46.employee Peter Edwards, he declined to comment on the case.

:41:47. > :41:50.So that news from a couple of seconds ago that China has announced

:41:51. > :41:56.the end of its one child policy. In the last minute or so, it's official

:41:57. > :42:00.news agency said all couples would be allowed two children. The

:42:01. > :42:04.principle was introduced more than three decades ago to limit

:42:05. > :42:08.population growth in the country. They are now relaxing that one child

:42:09. > :42:13.rule. If couples want to, they can have up to two children. That is

:42:14. > :42:15.breaking in the last couple of minutes.

:42:16. > :42:17.A long-running bid to build the UK's largest mosque

:42:18. > :42:20.in the London borough of Newham has been rejected by the government.

:42:21. > :42:21.Our news correspondent, Emilia Papadopoulous,

:42:22. > :42:31.Why has it been thrown out? A number of reasons. A lot of speculation

:42:32. > :42:35.behind this, this is the second time these plans have been rejected.

:42:36. > :42:40.People are calling it the mega- mosque. It has the capacity for

:42:41. > :42:45.10,000 people and it would be four times the size of St Paul's

:42:46. > :42:48.Cathedral. There has been a lot of controversy surrounding these plans.

:42:49. > :42:52.The site was bought almost 20 years ago and the people behind it have

:42:53. > :42:56.campaigned to have this mosque built so this is the second time it has

:42:57. > :43:01.been rejected. In 2012, Newham rejected those plans and it was

:43:02. > :43:06.controversial and about 3,000 people from the Muslim community went down

:43:07. > :43:09.to protest. One main reason it has been rejected, people say if it did

:43:10. > :43:14.go ahead, it could cause tension and division within the community in

:43:15. > :43:18.East London and Newham. The government said today they rejected

:43:19. > :43:21.the plans and the decision was based on concerns including local housing

:43:22. > :43:24.provision and conflict with the council's local plan for the

:43:25. > :43:30.borough. It also took into account evidence from all parties and it is

:43:31. > :43:34.in line with the council's original advice from an Independent planning

:43:35. > :43:40.enquiry. Do we know if that is it, no more? I suspect the group hand it

:43:41. > :43:44.will appeal again. They have been trying to build this mosque for over

:43:45. > :43:47.18 years and they have appealed the decision before and this will

:43:48. > :43:53.definitely be a huge blow to them. Thank you.