04/11/2015

:00:00. > :00:08.Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9.15am, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:09. > :00:13.A new offer for junior doctors from the Health Secretary.

:00:14. > :00:17.A promise of a rise in basic pay but a cut to extra payments

:00:18. > :00:26.Will it see off the threat of strike action in England?

:00:27. > :00:28.I have worked about 40 hours over the weekend

:00:29. > :00:33.and probably seen upwards of maybe 30, 40, 50 patients.

:00:34. > :00:36.Archaic and slow - our court system is told it's not doing enough

:00:37. > :00:42.Robin Williams' widow speaks publicly for the first time

:00:43. > :00:44.since her husband's death, and reveals he had been suffering

:00:45. > :01:00.Dementia killed Robin, it's what put his life, and that what I spent the

:01:01. > :01:01.last year trying to get to the bottom of... What took my husband's

:01:02. > :01:09.life? We're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:01:10. > :01:14.channel until 11 this morning. I'll be presenting the programme

:01:15. > :01:17.over the next few weeks whilst Victoria continues

:01:18. > :01:18.her treatment for breast cancer. And you can still watch her video

:01:19. > :01:21.diary following her mastectomy by going to our programme page

:01:22. > :01:25.bbc.co.uk/victoria. Over the next couple of hours,

:01:26. > :01:28.we'll keep you across the morning's Also ahead, a committee of MPs has

:01:29. > :01:34.accused HM Revenue and Customs of such poor service that it's

:01:35. > :01:39.a genuine threat to tax collection. The Public Accounts Committee says

:01:40. > :01:43.customer service, which was described as absymal

:01:44. > :01:47.two years ago, has got worse. We'd be interested to hear

:01:48. > :01:51.your stories this morning. Texts will be charged

:01:52. > :01:54.at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch the

:01:55. > :01:57.programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or

:01:58. > :01:59.our website bbc.co.uk/victoria and you can also subscribe to all

:02:00. > :02:07.our features on the news app by going to Add Topics and searching

:02:08. > :02:10.Victoria Derbyshire. Junior doctors have been offered an

:02:11. > :02:13.olive branch by the Health Secretary in a last-ditch attempt to persuade

:02:14. > :02:16.them not to take industrial action. Jeremy Hunt is promising

:02:17. > :02:18.an 11% pay rise but there will be cuts to extra payments

:02:19. > :02:21.for working unsociable hours. At the moment, junior doctors

:02:22. > :02:24.provide most of the staffing in hospitals during the weekends

:02:25. > :02:27.but receive a higher rate of pay when they work outside of 7am

:02:28. > :02:31.to 7pm Monday to Friday. Under the new deal, the number

:02:32. > :02:34.of hours classified as normal would extend from 7am to 10pm

:02:35. > :02:37.Monday to Friday. This week, ballot papers

:02:38. > :02:40.are being sent out by the British Medical Association asking

:02:41. > :02:42.its members whether they want There are no plans to introduce

:02:43. > :02:48.the changes in Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland is yet to make

:02:49. > :02:50.a decision. Here's what the the Health Secretary

:02:51. > :03:05.Jeremy Hunt had to say earlier We have been wanting to negotiate

:03:06. > :03:10.with the BMA since June but they have refused to sit around the table

:03:11. > :03:13.with us. Instead they have balloted for industrial action, which starts

:03:14. > :03:18.tomorrow, so I thought the only responsible thing to do is to

:03:19. > :03:21.publish our offer when it is clear they are not interested in any

:03:22. > :03:27.negotiation. But I just think that video diary that you showed sums up

:03:28. > :03:31.the whole issue. Junior doctors are the backbone of the NHS. We totally

:03:32. > :03:35.depend on them, they are the ones that work the bulk of nights and

:03:36. > :03:40.weekends. I hope they will listen carefully to what Professor Sir

:03:41. > :03:44.Bruce Keogh, the NHS England medical director says today, when he says

:03:45. > :03:51.the new proposals I am making, if they are lamented properly, will

:03:52. > :03:56.improve Haitian safety by stopping hospitals -- if they are implemented

:03:57. > :04:03.properly, will improve patient safety. By removing the disincentive

:04:04. > :04:07.from hospitals to roster evenly throughout the weekend, which means

:04:08. > :04:10.we have three times less medical cover at weekends. This is a very

:04:11. > :04:15.good thing for doctors currently working extremely hard. They will

:04:16. > :04:20.feel much better supported when they go into those A departments as a

:04:21. > :04:23.result of these changes. The brittle medical Association says it has not

:04:24. > :04:30.seen the proposals and is still planning to send out ballot papers.

:04:31. > :04:33.-- the British Medical Association. This video diary describes what life

:04:34. > :04:37.is like on the wards as a junior doctor.

:04:38. > :04:39.Hi, I'm a junior doctor and I currently

:04:40. > :04:50.It's my face along with the nursing staff and support staff

:04:51. > :04:53.that's one of the first you see when you walk into the A Department.

:04:54. > :04:56.I'm just about to start a run of four night shifts over a weekend

:04:57. > :05:00.and I have spent the day trying to get my body into night shift mode.

:05:01. > :05:03.I have just finished up treating an elderly lady who complimented me

:05:04. > :05:05.on how young I look considering I'm a doctor.

:05:06. > :05:11.I guess I'm one of the younger doctors in the hospital, but it is

:05:12. > :05:14.important to realise that overnight in the vast majority of hospitals up

:05:15. > :05:19.and down the country, our hospitals are run by junior doctors.

:05:20. > :05:24.The registrar leading my A team tonight was a junior doctor.

:05:25. > :05:27.The registrar looking after the wards and leading the team

:05:28. > :05:38.The term "junior" is a bit misleading, really.

:05:39. > :05:42.It does not always mean inexperienced.

:05:43. > :05:47.Some of the registrars have ten or more years' experience.

:05:48. > :05:51.I have worked about 40 hours over the weekend and probably seen

:05:52. > :05:57.upwards of maybe 30,40, 50 patients over the space of the weekend.

:05:58. > :06:07.The unfaltering trust that patients and family members put in us

:06:08. > :06:12.on a day to day basis is second to none really.

:06:13. > :06:21.It really is an enjoyable job and I would not swap it for anything else.

:06:22. > :06:25.Let's talk now to some more junior doctors.

:06:26. > :06:30.Dr Janis Burns, an anesthetic trainee, Dr Nadia

:06:31. > :06:43.What is your reaction to the new proposal? It hasn't changed my mind

:06:44. > :06:47.on how to vote. The 11% rise that is the headline Jeremy Hunt is going

:06:48. > :06:52.with is not an improvement on the previous proposed contract, which

:06:53. > :06:57.was not acceptable either. Previously, the review body had

:06:58. > :07:03.recommended 14-15% increase in basic salary to offset the loss of the

:07:04. > :07:08.banding supplement we would be getting. So offering 11% is even

:07:09. > :07:13.less of an increase than was suggested. Even that proposal was

:07:14. > :07:19.not enough to avoid the situation we found ourselves in. He has moved on

:07:20. > :07:26.which ours will be classified as anti-social... Only by three hours

:07:27. > :07:34.on a Saturday. The original proposal was Saturday seven AM-10 PM. He has

:07:35. > :07:38.now decided he will take it from seven AM-7 PM on a Saturday instead,

:07:39. > :07:46.so he is only offering three hours extra pay. It is not a big move at

:07:47. > :07:50.all. With the 11%, which is less than the 15%, there is no actual

:07:51. > :07:56.difference in pay at all, and it might even be more of a pay cut than

:07:57. > :07:59.before, we don't know. I agree, but one of the things that concerns me

:08:00. > :08:03.in the press release this morning was the move that our educational

:08:04. > :08:07.supervisors will be involved in regulating the hours and making sure

:08:08. > :08:11.that we don't work excess periods. That concerns me, because

:08:12. > :08:15.educational supervisors are clinicians, doctors, they are our

:08:16. > :08:20.seniors, they are not Human Resource Manager is. It is a bit disingenuous

:08:21. > :08:27.to put that role on our educational supervisors. It muddies the waters

:08:28. > :08:30.between their interests in our education and their interests in

:08:31. > :08:35.making sure they are providing a service. While I think a work based

:08:36. > :08:39.review system is a good idea, I don't think that our educational

:08:40. > :08:43.supervisors are the appropriate people to be doing it. What about

:08:44. > :08:47.what is good for patients in the end? A seven-day service, working

:08:48. > :08:52.out a way of it being affordable for the health service in difficult

:08:53. > :08:58.times? Yes, I haven't spoken to a doctor yet who wants patients... We

:08:59. > :09:02.all want them to be better off, we want them to be looked after. We

:09:03. > :09:06.struggle now, and as far as I can tell there are no plans to increase

:09:07. > :09:12.the number of doctors all the funding. ?22 billion of efficiency

:09:13. > :09:16.savings, and the promise of ?8 - 10 billion investment over the course

:09:17. > :09:22.of the government. If we can't make ?22 billion of savings, ?8 million

:09:23. > :09:27.is not going to negate that. Where is the extra money coming from to

:09:28. > :09:32.provide seven-day services? If you want a seven-day service, you need

:09:33. > :09:36.to invest more. The DDR be said that in their proposals, which Jeremy

:09:37. > :09:41.Hunt totally ignored. You need to invest more resources. If you have

:09:42. > :09:46.the same number of doctors working over a greater period of time, take

:09:47. > :09:53.me away on a Wednesday, bring me on a Saturday... It is an allusion that

:09:54. > :09:57.the service is going to work with this new contract. An e-mail that

:09:58. > :10:02.says, people who are supposed to be intelligent, such as doctors and

:10:03. > :10:05.teachers, do not realise that the country is broke, and every pound

:10:06. > :10:10.they get has to be taken from someone else, many of whom are

:10:11. > :10:14.poorer than they are. We are all in this together, apparently, in times

:10:15. > :10:19.of austerity. We are not as well paid as people think we are, and

:10:20. > :10:23.threatening us with a pay cut when we are already overworked and

:10:24. > :10:28.demoralised, working conditions have gone downhill... Threatening us with

:10:29. > :10:33.a pay cut is not going to strengthen morale, doctors will leave and that

:10:34. > :10:38.will be much worse for the NHS. How much are you paid and how many hours

:10:39. > :10:43.do you work? I am starting a new job today but my average hours per week

:10:44. > :10:47.would be between 50-56 hours per week. I often need to supplement my

:10:48. > :10:52.income, especially living in London where the cost of living is a lot

:10:53. > :10:57.higher. The salary I get, I can just about afford my basic living costs.

:10:58. > :11:03.I have a basic salary and a banding on top of that. My basic salary is

:11:04. > :11:10.about 40,000, and then I have a 40% supplement. I will start by telling

:11:11. > :11:16.you how much I pay per month in debt repayment for my student loans...

:11:17. > :11:21.Tell us how much you earn. The average salary across the country is

:11:22. > :11:27.?26,500. People will think doctors are paid a lot more than that. The

:11:28. > :11:32.average salary for people highly educated, who have spent five or six

:11:33. > :11:36.years in university accumulating massive debts, responsible for

:11:37. > :11:39.paying their own registration fees, paying for their own continuing

:11:40. > :11:43.professional development, which is a requirement for us to continue

:11:44. > :11:48.practising medicine in this country, the average salary of those skilled

:11:49. > :11:53.workers is not 26,000. Bankers get a lot more than we do. We get much

:11:54. > :11:59.less than they do and we are just as intelligent. Why shouldn't more

:12:00. > :12:04.hours be classified as normal working hours? We are 24/7 society.

:12:05. > :12:09.I agree, but the bottom line, our society has not evolved where people

:12:10. > :12:14.and children go to school seven days a week, they got five days a week.

:12:15. > :12:19.Parents and families meet on a Saturday and Sunday. If children go

:12:20. > :12:22.to school seven days a week, fine, but at the moment Saturday and

:12:23. > :12:27.Sunday are still regarded as the weekend. I already give up my

:12:28. > :12:32.weekends to work and I am recompense for that at the moment. I am happy

:12:33. > :12:36.to work weekend, I did not think I would become a doctor and not work

:12:37. > :12:41.weekends and nights, but what I object to is it being made out... We

:12:42. > :12:47.are not asking for more, we are just not asking for less. I contacted the

:12:48. > :12:52.Department of Health in March or April to find out what was happening

:12:53. > :12:56.with doctors' pay. I did not think that fast forward six months I would

:12:57. > :13:01.be fighting not to have my pay cut. I don't want more pay, but I don't

:13:02. > :13:06.want a pay cut. Jeremy Hunt says that in his latest proposals, 1% of

:13:07. > :13:11.junior doctors will be worse off. He says there is no intention to make

:13:12. > :13:13.junior doctors worse off, and that actually they are guaranteeing the

:13:14. > :13:18.maximum hours that you can work per week will be reduced. 1% is still

:13:19. > :13:22.too much, not a single doctors should lose out in this new

:13:23. > :13:26.contract. All doctors work hard across the board. He says it is

:13:27. > :13:31.still negotiable, should the BMA go back to the table? Yes, when the

:13:32. > :13:35.Department of Health have taken away the threat of the imposition of a

:13:36. > :13:40.new contract. This morning he said he would not definitely impose it,

:13:41. > :13:46.so is it time for the BMA to go back to the table? When it is in writing.

:13:47. > :13:51.He has used the press, the Telegraph, the Guardian, the BBC. If

:13:52. > :13:55.Jeremy Hunt would like to put it into the press that he would remove

:13:56. > :14:00.the threat of imposition and that he will have proper, genuine

:14:01. > :14:04.negotiations, then the BMA will go back to negotiations happily. But we

:14:05. > :14:08.are not being given what we are asked for. We walked away because we

:14:09. > :14:12.have been going round in circles. We need to start going in a straight

:14:13. > :14:17.line and the Department of Health are not facilitating that. The

:14:18. > :14:25.original Lugosi Asians, lasting over two or three years. -- the original

:14:26. > :14:30.negotiations. The Department of Health were not budging, that is not

:14:31. > :14:34.negotiation, that is, we are going to do this and we will talk about

:14:35. > :14:39.how bad it is going to be. We should not be worse off, at all. The BMA

:14:40. > :14:44.have said they want assurances and that once Jeremy Hunt provide them,

:14:45. > :14:50.I would support them going back to negotiations. So far that hasn't

:14:51. > :14:53.happened. Do you think it is likely that this ballot for strike action

:14:54. > :14:59.will be successful, and what then happens? There are two questions. We

:15:00. > :15:09.have not seen the ballot papers yet... Nobody wants to walk out. But

:15:10. > :15:13.what we envisage in the future, if this contract goes ahead, is a much

:15:14. > :15:18.worse scenario and that is what we are trying to avoid. We have been

:15:19. > :15:21.given so much support from our employers, from consultants, from

:15:22. > :15:25.our hospital colleagues. We have been assured that if the situation

:15:26. > :15:29.arose if we were to walk out, and we're not saying that will

:15:30. > :15:33.definitely happen, there is still time for the government to respond

:15:34. > :15:37.provide us with assurances where the BMA can return to the table and

:15:38. > :15:40.avoid a strike. But if it came to that, we would put everything in

:15:41. > :15:45.place to make sure that patients do not suffer and no one comes to harm.

:15:46. > :15:49.It sounds like it is close to a situation where he is saying that no

:15:50. > :15:54.junior doctors will be worse off, 1%, I know you are saying that is

:15:55. > :15:58.still too much. If there were a guarantee that no junior doctor

:15:59. > :16:02.would be worse off, then this would be an acceptable deal? It is one of

:16:03. > :16:06.the assurances that the BMA have asked for, but there is also patient

:16:07. > :16:10.safety. We want to make sure that no junior doctor will be worse off,

:16:11. > :16:14.including those taking time out for academic training. But a single

:16:15. > :16:18.doctor should lose pay, we want the threat of imposition removed, but

:16:19. > :16:22.the current safeguards in place to ensure doctors are not overwork, to

:16:23. > :16:26.protect the safety of doctors and patients, they need to be in place

:16:27. > :16:30.and he has not addressed that at all at the moment. One of the things I

:16:31. > :16:34.am concerned about, Jeremy Hunt keeps referring to doctors as the

:16:35. > :16:36.backbone of the national health service. I find that quite insulting

:16:37. > :16:43.to my colleagues. service. I find that quite insulting

:16:44. > :16:46.a team. We work with nurses, porters, radiographers,

:16:47. > :16:50.physiotherapists. We have all been subjected to pay restraint for

:16:51. > :16:56.however many years, and to say we are the backbone, we are not, we are

:16:57. > :17:00.part of a backbone. Multiple bones, we need everyone else. It is not

:17:01. > :17:04.just our terms and conditions we are fighting for. We are doing it for

:17:05. > :17:09.the negotiations that will succeed hours. We have to look out for the

:17:10. > :17:13.rest of our team. It is not just about junior doctors, it is everyone

:17:14. > :17:18.else in the National Health Service. It is a beginning of a fight for

:17:19. > :17:23.everyone in the NHS, the doctors and nurses, the non-medical staff, they

:17:24. > :17:25.are the heart of the NHS. If you start demoralising all of them,

:17:26. > :17:29.are the heart of the NHS. If you are going to move on to the

:17:30. > :17:29.are the heart of the NHS. If you the staff and the NHS will not

:17:30. > :17:42.survive. Thank you Is the cost of going to university

:17:43. > :17:47.deterring some would-be students? We will be finding out. Internet firms

:17:48. > :17:52.will have two store details of online activity for 12 months on

:17:53. > :17:54.under a new law, we will find out the details and look at how other

:17:55. > :18:00.countries and all surveillance. A new pay offer for junior doctors

:18:01. > :18:04.from the Health Secretary. Jeremy Hunt promises an 11% increase

:18:05. > :18:07.in basic pay to see off strike action in England, but

:18:08. > :18:09.there'll be cuts to extra payments The British Medical Association is

:18:10. > :18:13.accusing the Government of failing to provide assurances that the

:18:14. > :18:28.contract would be safe and fair. The only responsible thing for me to

:18:29. > :18:32.do is the day before the ballot, after refusing to talk to the

:18:33. > :18:35.government, is to say, look at the facts. Internet companies may have

:18:36. > :18:40.to store details about online activity for a year and a new draft

:18:41. > :18:42.surveillance law, ministers say it is necessary to fight terrorism and

:18:43. > :18:52.serious crime. A group of MPs says that the level

:18:53. > :18:54.of customer service provided by HM Revenue and Customs is acceptably

:18:55. > :19:02.poor. And a genuine threat to tax The Public Accounts Committee says

:19:03. > :19:04.customer service, which was described as abysmal

:19:05. > :19:06.two years ago, had got worse, and they were particularly critical

:19:07. > :19:09.of the failure to prosecute The Crown Court system in England

:19:10. > :19:13.and Wales is "structured mayhem" with many delays,

:19:14. > :19:15.that's according to a new report The study by the coalition

:19:16. > :19:19.of 90 justice campaign groups says courts are not doing enough

:19:20. > :19:29.for victims and witnesses. The widow of Robin Williams has

:19:30. > :19:32.spoken publicly for the first The actor took his own life

:19:33. > :19:36.last August, leading many to Susan Williams told Good Morning

:19:37. > :19:39.America her husband had been She said, "He is not up yet.

:19:40. > :19:43.What should I do?" Jess has the sport now, and news of

:19:44. > :20:01.a trailblazer for women's motorsport Susie Wolff is retiring at the end

:20:02. > :20:05.of the season, she was the first woman to take part in a Formula 1

:20:06. > :20:07.Grand Prix in more than 20 years but she says her dream is not going to

:20:08. > :20:11.happen, she has been with the Williams team since 2012 as a

:20:12. > :20:16.development driver, she has been in motorsport all her life, darting as

:20:17. > :20:20.a young girl in karting. How accessible is carting for young

:20:21. > :20:24.girls? -- motorsport. It is not the kind of thing that you will do in

:20:25. > :20:27.the playground. When she retires Susie Wolff plans an initiative to

:20:28. > :20:32.get more women into motorsport and show that it is not just a sport for

:20:33. > :20:35.boys and it is an option for women as well. We will have a round-up of

:20:36. > :20:39.the Champions League action from last night, wins for both British

:20:40. > :20:44.sides in action, Manchester United and Manchester City, and in cricket

:20:45. > :20:49.we are into the crucial fourth day of the test between England and

:20:50. > :20:56.Pakistan, Mohammad Hafeez caused a lot of damage for England in the

:20:57. > :21:02.morning session, he made 151, they almost stumped him much earlier. A

:21:03. > :21:13.lead of 185 runs, we will have all of that for you at 10am.

:21:14. > :21:15.Thousands of students are set to march for

:21:16. > :21:18.The protest, organised by the National Campaign

:21:19. > :21:20.Against Fees and Cuts, is calling for free education and full

:21:21. > :21:23.But after violence has marred previous student protests,

:21:24. > :21:44.The fact is, all graduates will pay less per month than they presently

:21:45. > :21:50.do under the scheme inherited from Labour. The fact is, at least one in

:21:51. > :21:55.four of the lowest paid graduates will pay less in total than they do

:21:56. > :21:59.now. You have not got your message through. Given all of the other

:22:00. > :22:04.pressures we have got, this is the best deal available to us. Seems to

:22:05. > :22:10.me there is a big crossroads for Britain, the Cross Rhodes is this,

:22:11. > :22:14.you would create a society where the next generation has greater

:22:15. > :22:26.opportunities than the last? Do we pull up that ladder of opportunity?

:22:27. > :22:31.It is about what you spend it on, education is the most important

:22:32. > :22:34.thing, it is how we get our economy, our country's economy, it is how we

:22:35. > :22:47.make it improve. 50,000 students have come to protest

:22:48. > :22:51.peacefully, they have made a serious point, but they are in jeopardy of

:22:52. > :22:52.being completely undermined by the outrageous and violent actions of a

:22:53. > :23:05.small minority. Responsibility for smashing

:23:06. > :23:09.property, for violence, lies with the people that perpetrate that

:23:10. > :23:10.violence and I want to see them arrested and punished in correct

:23:11. > :23:26.way. If we have lost your trust, that is

:23:27. > :23:32.how I hope we can start to win it back... And 2016/17 we will replace

:23:33. > :23:36.maintenance grants with loans for new students, loans that only have

:23:37. > :23:43.to be paid back once they earn over ?21,000 a year. Let me be fair about

:23:44. > :23:50.students, we welcome students coming to study. But the fact is, too many

:23:51. > :24:00.of them are not returning home as soon as their Visa runs out.

:24:01. > :24:06.We can speak with Debra Hammonds, organising the protest today, she

:24:07. > :24:10.wants free education for students, and we can speak with a college

:24:11. > :24:14.student going along to the protest, and we are joined from Leicester by

:24:15. > :24:20.sayyid Ali, a law student who disagrees with free education for

:24:21. > :24:24.students, as does fill, a politics student in Liverpool. -- Sayeed Ali.

:24:25. > :24:29.You have organised this demonstration, there has been a

:24:30. > :24:32.change in the politics with all of this with Jeremy Corbyn saying that

:24:33. > :24:38.he would like to abolish tuition fees. Has this dynamic change?

:24:39. > :24:42.Definitely, we are seeing that free education is no longer a pipe dream,

:24:43. > :24:46.it has become a mainstream issue, when the Leader of the Opposition is

:24:47. > :24:53.calling for new tuition fees, for maintenance grants to stay, and is

:24:54. > :24:57.proposing that, as his first policy pledge in his election campaign,

:24:58. > :25:02.then I think there is a real feeling among students that now is the time

:25:03. > :25:06.that we can achieve this. Why do you think you say that there is a real

:25:07. > :25:14.feeling, RUC in more getting in touch? Meetings that may be in the

:25:15. > :25:25.previous years got 20, now we have 200. -- are you seeing more getting

:25:26. > :25:29.in touch? The cutting of maintenance grants was even worse than the

:25:30. > :25:34.tripling of tuition fees, 1 million poor students are now not going to

:25:35. > :25:38.receive financial support. The fees have not deterred students, record

:25:39. > :25:44.numbers have been going. Those figures are really misleading. Since

:25:45. > :25:48.tuition fees were triple, university places have been extended. The

:25:49. > :25:53.government is now talking about capping places in universities, as

:25:54. > :26:01.well as that, part-time students have gone down by 48%, working class

:26:02. > :26:08.students, parents, mature students. These numbers show that even though

:26:09. > :26:11.there is more students in general in universities, there is still a

:26:12. > :26:17.problem, and with the measures now, I believe that the changes to

:26:18. > :26:20.requirements of loans and the changes to maintenance grants is

:26:21. > :26:25.going to determine working-class students. One third of students can

:26:26. > :26:33.receive maintenance grants, they would not have gone if it were not

:26:34. > :26:38.for that. I think the figures speak for themselves, when it comes to the

:26:39. > :26:42.number of students that have taken up places at University recently.

:26:43. > :26:47.There was a study in the Guardian recently which said that

:26:48. > :26:53.working-class students and students from a lower socioeconomic class are

:26:54. > :26:58.70% more likely now to go to university than they were in 2005

:26:59. > :27:04.under the Labour government. I think it is fundamentally wrong to expect

:27:05. > :27:09.taxpayers to themselves may have never benefited from a university

:27:10. > :27:16.education to pay for hours. I think that asking cleaners, binmen, and

:27:17. > :27:20.other working people to pay for an education which we will ultimately

:27:21. > :27:25.benefit from to a June of several hundred thousand pounds over the

:27:26. > :27:31.course of our working lives is unacceptable. Syed Ali, what is your

:27:32. > :27:34.perspective, you get a full maintenance grant, so you will be

:27:35. > :27:40.affected by the changes to maintenance grants, what do you

:27:41. > :27:47.think about free education? I think higher tuition fees has fostered a

:27:48. > :27:53.culture in university of hard work, more students feel the need to go to

:27:54. > :27:58.lectures and seminars, forcing them to take up extracurricular stuff to

:27:59. > :28:04.boost CDs. They know that once they graduate, they will be in for a

:28:05. > :28:08.fierce competition to apply for graduate roles, up to 70 students

:28:09. > :28:12.applying for one role. It is completely unfair for taxpayers to

:28:13. > :28:17.fund the education. Going to university is a luxury, it is a

:28:18. > :28:24.choice that we make. More unfair on the 30 million British people who

:28:25. > :28:29.live below the poverty line. Is it fare for them to fund our education?

:28:30. > :28:32.What said is exactly the problem, this idea that because we are now

:28:33. > :28:39.paying money and working hard and expecting more from universities,

:28:40. > :28:45.this idea that we are consumers, like clients, in the university, is

:28:46. > :28:50.a problem, it has led to education not been for the sake of learning.

:28:51. > :28:54.Soon universities will be allowed to increase fees depending upon how

:28:55. > :28:59.employable their students are, that means arts courses, sociology,

:29:00. > :29:03.philosophy, all of these incredibly vital courses, they are already

:29:04. > :29:09.being cut across the board. Because, of fiercely, your employability

:29:10. > :29:15.chances will be lower. I know that you want to study art and film,

:29:16. > :29:21.Sahayah, you are protesting, why is that? I'm protesting because

:29:22. > :29:26.fundamentally I believe that education is a social good, it is a

:29:27. > :29:32.right, it should be free and accessible. It is not just an issue

:29:33. > :29:35.of tuition fees and isolation, we asked the then escalated progression

:29:36. > :29:41.towards a system which is completely market eyes, education system

:29:42. > :29:44.stripped of its value, inherent value, and sharing of ideas and

:29:45. > :29:49.learning, instead we are seeing something where universities are

:29:50. > :29:53.there to create the most employable graduates. What I'm particularly

:29:54. > :30:01.concerned about is the scrapping of maintenance grants and covering my

:30:02. > :30:03.living costs. It is the 1 million poor students that are going to be

:30:04. > :30:07.affected by the cutting of maintenance grants. That is very

:30:08. > :30:11.reflective of the Tory agenda as a whole, where from tax credits to

:30:12. > :30:15.things like the maintenance grants, we are seeing those that are most

:30:16. > :30:21.vulnerable and worse off who are getting hit hardest. It goes against

:30:22. > :30:26.something that was from the arguments made for tuition fees in

:30:27. > :30:32.2010, where it was that everyone, regardless of your family's income

:30:33. > :30:34.would be paying the same. This is exactly going back on that. It shows

:30:35. > :30:40.that the government is beginning to become completely unafraid to make

:30:41. > :30:43.this change. You have said graduates will earn hundreds of thousands of

:30:44. > :30:47.extra pounds over the course of their careers compared with

:30:48. > :30:51.non-graduates, but it depends in the end on what kind of career you go

:30:52. > :30:55.into, what if you want to study for the love of studying, an arts

:30:56. > :31:02.degree, and not just have aspirations to earn a huge amount of

:31:03. > :31:06.money over your career? If you do not, we have set up the repayment

:31:07. > :31:12.schedule in place, so that if you do not earn more than 21,000, you will

:31:13. > :31:17.not pay back your loan, the government will write it off within

:31:18. > :31:23.30 years, and an awful lot of people do not actually pay back their full

:31:24. > :31:30.loan. You can still go for the love of learning. But what we are saying

:31:31. > :31:38.is, if you benefit, in your wages, you should pay back to the Exchequer

:31:39. > :31:41.for the education you have received. Here is where the issue comes in,

:31:42. > :31:47.the government knows that in a few years' time, the system of loans is

:31:48. > :31:52.going to be worse for the British taxpayer than what we had before.

:31:53. > :31:56.Because of that, it is currently trying to change, or it is going to

:31:57. > :32:01.change, the repayment conditions of loans, it is proposing to freeze the

:32:02. > :32:07.threshold of ?21,000, for the next couple of years, which will mean

:32:08. > :32:10.that in effect, the lowest paid student will have to pay back more

:32:11. > :32:22.of their alone. -- there loan. If you are a student,

:32:23. > :32:26.you have already signed your contract for your student loan, you

:32:27. > :32:30.may be paying back more. And this is going to affect women more than men

:32:31. > :32:35.because of the gender pay gap. -- their loan.

:32:36. > :32:44.Did the prospect of leaving with ?50,000 of debt affect your career

:32:45. > :32:50.choice long-term? When I first looked at it, a loan of ?27,000 over

:32:51. > :32:53.three years looked quite daunting. When I considered I could

:32:54. > :32:58.potentially earn a lot more over time than a person who has not gone

:32:59. > :33:03.to university, it made sense. The tuition fees that you pay go towards

:33:04. > :33:09.improving facilities on campus, so it does benefit in the end. A final

:33:10. > :33:17.thought, you said you think there is new momentum among students. What is

:33:18. > :33:22.in store? Obviously we have 10,000, potentially more, students from

:33:23. > :33:26.across the country... How can you be sure there are 10,000? When you were

:33:27. > :33:31.talking earlier about people turning up to meetings on campus, it was

:33:32. > :33:39.from 20 to 200, quite limited. There are 800 universities and colleges

:33:40. > :33:42.across the UK. Students are actually talking about running a student

:33:43. > :33:50.strike, looking at what is happening in South Africa, where the fees were

:33:51. > :33:55.just stopped. Successful movements in Montreal in the past few years.

:33:56. > :34:00.We can expect a mass revolt from students in the coming months. This

:34:01. > :34:05.isn't just about fees and education. We are seeing the government being

:34:06. > :34:08.defeated on tax credits, being defeated on the junior doctor

:34:09. > :34:11.contracts. These movements are going to link up in the next few months

:34:12. > :34:15.and the government is going to struggle a lot. Thank you for

:34:16. > :34:21.joining us. Let us know what you think. Also coming up, worse than

:34:22. > :34:26.abysmal, that's the damning verdict on the tax office from a group of

:34:27. > :34:33.MPs. We will find out why its customer service is so poor.

:34:34. > :34:36.Internet firms will have to store details of people's online activity

:34:37. > :34:38.for a year under plans for a new surveillance law

:34:39. > :34:43.It's all part of the Government's Investigatory Powers Bill.

:34:44. > :34:45.Critics have branded it a "snooper's charter" for the police,

:34:46. > :34:50.David Cameron says it's one of the most important pieces

:34:51. > :34:56.Security chiefs say this legislation is long overdue

:34:57. > :34:59.and it has the backing of three major reports in the last year

:35:00. > :35:02.that broadly agree there should be no safe space online for criminals.

:35:03. > :35:09.So how do similar laws work elsewhere?

:35:10. > :35:12.We've been trying to find out what happens in other countries around

:35:13. > :35:17.Anthony Glees is from the Centre for Security and Intelligence Studies

:35:18. > :35:28.Tell us what we can learn from other countries, starting with how it

:35:29. > :35:33.works in America. You have to distinguish between the general

:35:34. > :35:38.position and the specific position. The general position in the United

:35:39. > :35:44.states of America is that the CIA should not spy on Americans inside

:35:45. > :35:49.America. And outside America. The general position is that the FBI can

:35:50. > :35:57.investigate people with warrants, and the general position is that the

:35:58. > :36:02.NSA can also gain access to Americans' communication from inside

:36:03. > :36:09.America. That is the general position, because the two Patriot

:36:10. > :36:13.acts passed after 9/11, which give the intelligence agencies in America

:36:14. > :36:16.sweeping powers. So the things that are being done despite Edward

:36:17. > :36:21.Snowden's allegations are not necessarily an awful. But when you

:36:22. > :36:25.come to the particular issue, you have to ask yourself, how is anybody

:36:26. > :36:31.going to know whether or not their communications have been

:36:32. > :36:34.intercepted? And if they have been intercepted, whether they have been

:36:35. > :36:40.lawfully intercepted? And the answer is that there is huge discussion in

:36:41. > :36:46.the US at the moment particularly about the National Security agency,

:36:47. > :36:48.the American version of GCHQ, as to whether their data collection

:36:49. > :36:53.programmes are consistent with the law or break the law. At the moment,

:36:54. > :36:59.the agencies seem to be winning, but who can tell how it will go? This is

:37:00. > :37:05.secret activity. As for Germany, because of Germany's past, spying is

:37:06. > :37:12.very carefully regulated. And it is strictly against the law that the

:37:13. > :37:16.German version of GCHQ, the BND, also the German version of MA six,

:37:17. > :37:22.it is against the law for them to do any surveillance on any German. --

:37:23. > :37:25.the German version of MI6. But it is not against the law for them to put

:37:26. > :37:31.Germans outside Germany under surveillance if they are working for

:37:32. > :37:36.foreign companies. In Brussels, for example, or in the United Kingdom.

:37:37. > :37:41.Again, there is the general proposition that privacy is

:37:42. > :37:45.inviolable, you should not allow people in agencies to look. In

:37:46. > :37:51.specific cases, certainly not only can it be done, it is being done.

:37:52. > :37:58.All states do it. The real issue is lawfulness and oversight,

:37:59. > :38:02.proportionality and necessity. So comparing what happens in the United

:38:03. > :38:05.States with Germany, are there claims in Germany that the hands of

:38:06. > :38:10.the security services are tied because of what they can do within

:38:11. > :38:14.Germany itself? The popular culture in Germany is very similar to the

:38:15. > :38:20.popular culture in the United States of America. Which is that people

:38:21. > :38:24.don't trust governments and they don't trust intelligence agencies.

:38:25. > :38:32.If you come from a country with a Gestapo past, a Stasi past, that is

:38:33. > :38:38.understandable. On the other hand, where the intelligence agencies make

:38:39. > :38:42.mistakes, very serious mistakes from 2000-2007, where security officers

:38:43. > :38:47.failed to stop racist murders of Turks in the Federal Republic, then

:38:48. > :38:52.the German people jump up and down and say, why aren't these agencies

:38:53. > :38:57.doing their job? In the United States of America, liberty is very,

:38:58. > :39:02.very important. But what do you do if there are people that want to

:39:03. > :39:05.destroy that liberty? The old distinction between Americans and

:39:06. > :39:10.non-Americans was always that if you were not an American, you wouldn't

:39:11. > :39:14.want to destroy America. The Islamist threat, though, includes

:39:15. > :39:16.people who are perfectly ordinary American citizens. Thank you.

:39:17. > :39:19.Catherine Guilyardi is a French journalist.

:39:20. > :39:23.It was after the Charlie Hebdo killings that the French government

:39:24. > :39:35.Tell us about the change and the impact it has had, the reaction to

:39:36. > :39:39.that. Four months after the killings, the government proposed a

:39:40. > :39:42.law that was passed in July. It allows the government to monitor the

:39:43. > :39:48.phone calls and e-mails of suspected terrorists without the authorisation

:39:49. > :39:53.of a judge. It calls for internet service providers to install

:39:54. > :39:58.so-called black boxes, that sweep up and analyse meta data on millions of

:39:59. > :40:04.web users. It forces them to make that data freely available to

:40:05. > :40:10.intelligence organisations. Intelligence agents will be able to

:40:11. > :40:16.plant microphones, cameras, keystroke technology in the homes of

:40:17. > :40:18.suspected terrorists. One provision that was not bound by the

:40:19. > :40:23.Constitutional Council in July has actually just been voted in October

:40:24. > :40:27.without many French people knowing it, and only eight MPs were here

:40:28. > :40:38.that day, the provision that actually says, now, the intelligence

:40:39. > :40:43.service can actually allow, can actually intercept any

:40:44. > :40:47.communications sent or received overseas. Widely criticised by

:40:48. > :40:52.Amnesty international, because there is a lack of sufficient independent

:40:53. > :40:58.oversight. Instead of getting a judge's approval, the Prime Minister

:40:59. > :41:05.can only seek review of a new body that is called the National

:41:06. > :41:08.community of intelligence. Without any need to abide by them. These are

:41:09. > :41:15.the main criticisms. And Emily Taylor is

:41:16. > :41:23.an internet governance expert. Do government always say the same

:41:24. > :41:28.thing as it is going on behind the scenes? Do they always play by the

:41:29. > :41:31.rules? What we have learned from the Edward Snowden

:41:32. > :41:31.rules? What we have learned from the governments will use whatever data

:41:32. > :41:36.is available to governments will use whatever data

:41:37. > :41:41.ambitions to use more and more and more. So there is

:41:42. > :41:44.ambitions to use more and more and which I think we should be worried

:41:45. > :41:49.about, between the interests of states in monitoring, the sort of

:41:50. > :41:53.dragnet surveillance which states in monitoring, the sort of

:41:54. > :41:58.becoming more and more the ambition, and the alignment between those

:41:59. > :42:00.interests and those of private companies on whose

:42:01. > :42:01.interests and those of private platforms we are spending increasing

:42:02. > :42:06.amounts of our online life. platforms we are spending increasing

:42:07. > :42:13.popular top four websites across the platforms we are spending increasing

:42:14. > :42:20.Yemen are Facebook, Google platforms we are spending increasing

:42:21. > :42:26.in most countries. When Google had an outage a couple of years ago, web

:42:27. > :42:30.traffic dropped by 50%. So we spend a lot of time on these sites, they

:42:31. > :42:34.have a huge amount of data about us. It is only natural that the

:42:35. > :42:35.have a huge amount of data about security services should want access

:42:36. > :42:41.to that data. We know that when to that data. We know that when

:42:42. > :42:46.interests are aligned, there is a gap. Who is looking after the

:42:47. > :42:51.citizen? Thank you all for explaining how it works elsewhere.

:42:52. > :42:54.That is how some other governments are using their surveillance powers.

:42:55. > :42:57.The intelligence services have are using their surveillance powers.

:42:58. > :42:58.they do need access to the information, but will it make a

:42:59. > :43:07.difference to day-to-day policing? Why is it essential?

:43:08. > :43:20.from our Belfast studio now. Why is it essential?

:43:21. > :43:23.the last 15-20 years, elements of intelligence gathering, so

:43:24. > :43:25.the last 15-20 years, elements of moved online. The

:43:26. > :43:35.the last 15-20 years, elements of terrorism has changed.

:43:36. > :43:37.the last 15-20 years, elements of disk wreak terrorist organisations

:43:38. > :43:42.the last 15-20 years, elements of radicalisation of small radicals and

:43:43. > :43:46.groups across the country. -- discrete terrorist organisations. If

:43:47. > :43:50.the security services and the government are going to combat that,

:43:51. > :43:55.they need the tools to do that. So much is done online, people are

:43:56. > :43:58.radicalised online, they carry out intelligence gathering online and

:43:59. > :44:02.they communicate online, so we need a piece of legislation that brings

:44:03. > :44:06.intelligence gathering into the 21st century. Police and intelligence

:44:07. > :44:10.agencies can already intercept communications with a justifiable

:44:11. > :44:16.case. Phone calls can be listened to, vices hacked, e-mails

:44:17. > :44:23.intercepted. What more is needed? -- devices hacked. Tracking the

:44:24. > :44:25.websites that people have been using... Huge amounts of

:44:26. > :44:32.intelligence can be gathered from that. These organisations and

:44:33. > :44:36.individuals use the web to gather intelligence on what to target, they

:44:37. > :44:41.may be looking at specific people and places. They may be looking at

:44:42. > :44:46.bomb manuals online. By having access to that traffic, the security

:44:47. > :44:49.services can tell a lot about the individual, their pattern of life,

:44:50. > :44:55.and what sort of things they are interested in doing. That is vital.

:44:56. > :44:59.The bottom line in all of this is do we want the state to act to protect

:45:00. > :45:03.the lives of citizens? And where does the balance lie between the

:45:04. > :45:07.rights of individual who may have their web traffic interfered with at

:45:08. > :45:12.some stage, and the right of the person walking down the street when

:45:13. > :45:16.a bomb goes off and is killed by it? It is a balancing exercise and the

:45:17. > :45:19.state has to be seen to act, but it has to do so fairly, proportionately

:45:20. > :45:34.and reasonably. Thank you very much. Still to come: Junior doctors are

:45:35. > :45:46.offered a new pay deal from the government. We will get reaction.

:45:47. > :45:54.I was going to start by talking about the weather watchers, it is a

:45:55. > :45:58.brilliant new online club which allows the general public to send

:45:59. > :46:03.their pictures in, or their data, from what they can see outside of

:46:04. > :46:06.their back garden, send the data to the weather bulletins, it will not

:46:07. > :46:10.replace the forecast, but sometimes we have this discrepancy with

:46:11. > :46:16.weather, we say patchy showers, some hit and miss, other areas staying

:46:17. > :46:22.dry, now people can send pictures in the exact what is happening. We have

:46:23. > :46:30.a view weather stations around the country. Big gaps in between. Lovely

:46:31. > :46:38.sunny picture here, sent in from a weather watcher from Oxfordshire.

:46:39. > :46:42.Also allowing you to put symbols and temperatures if you have a weather

:46:43. > :46:45.station there, I have one at home. You have the temperature and

:46:46. > :46:50.humidity of the area, and other features as well, which will be of

:46:51. > :46:55.incredible use to us for the weather bulletins. Recently we have had

:46:56. > :47:00.fog, hit and miss, patchy in nature, so when people like this weather

:47:01. > :47:04.watchers send in areas which are foggy and sunny, we can formulate a

:47:05. > :47:11.good picture. Especially with winter coming up, there will be a lot of

:47:12. > :47:15.pictures. You will be inundated! We love weather stories. It is a

:47:16. > :47:19.brilliant thing for the public to get involved, they could name check

:47:20. > :47:24.their town or village or even Hamlet, which is never usually

:47:25. > :47:33.mentioned. It should be really exciting. -- hamlet. It is very

:47:34. > :47:41.simple to do, once you are up and running, straightforward on the

:47:42. > :47:48.website. What is going on is a lot of clout, outbreaks of rain, across

:47:49. > :47:50.the south-east. There is going to be damp patches across many areas

:47:51. > :47:55.through the morning, that rain will clear away from the south-east,

:47:56. > :47:59.leaving drips and grabs around. Some sunshine spells around, some holes

:48:00. > :48:04.appearing in the cloud, when you get the sunshine, it will feel mild,

:48:05. > :48:10.15, 16 degrees, otherwise looking at 11 to 14 degrees, wind is light.

:48:11. > :48:12.There will be mist and murk around, articulate central northern

:48:13. > :48:19.north-east parts of England, into southern Scotland, rain becoming

:48:20. > :48:23.more confined to northern areas of Scotland, any brightness will be

:48:24. > :48:28.just the Hebrides. Looks like it will take loud it. On the cool side,

:48:29. > :48:33.ten or 11 degrees. We lose the rain in Scotland, across the country, it

:48:34. > :48:36.is going to stay pretty cloudy tonight, quite damp, mist and murk,

:48:37. > :48:41.bit of a change coming into the south-west, versed a series of low

:48:42. > :48:47.pressure, the breeze will be picking up, outbreaks of rain. -- first a

:48:48. > :48:52.series of low pressures. The rest of the week will be mild but there will

:48:53. > :48:56.be low pressure pushing in, rain, and turning windy, severe gales by

:48:57. > :49:01.the time we reach the weekend. Here is the first area pushing in,

:49:02. > :49:03.Thursday morning into the south-west, not very windy but the

:49:04. > :49:09.breeze will be more noticeable than late. -- than of late. Dry start,

:49:10. > :49:12.sunshine confined to the north of Scotland through the day, as the

:49:13. > :49:16.band of rain and breeze continues to spread east across the country,

:49:17. > :49:22.drawing up a little bit, but will still remain damp. 12 to 16 degrees

:49:23. > :49:23.in temperature, pretty mild. Thursday evening, band of rain,

:49:24. > :49:33.continuing to advanced East, for bonfire night, early on in the

:49:34. > :49:39.evening there will be rain, eventually clearing away, and it

:49:40. > :49:43.will be mild and breezy. That is how it is shaping up for bonfire night.

:49:44. > :49:48.As we go into Friday, the next area of low pressure will move in, severe

:49:49. > :49:52.gales to the north-east corner of the country, band of rain spreading

:49:53. > :50:00.east, and a very mild day, temperatures 13 to 17 degrees.

:50:01. > :50:08.Hello it's Wednesday, it's ten o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome

:50:09. > :50:16.to the programme if you've just joined us. Coming up before 11:

:50:17. > :50:18.Junior doctors in England are offered a pay rise

:50:19. > :50:21.in a long running dispute over their contracts - but will it be

:50:22. > :50:27.I do not want more pay, I do not want a pay cut, I did not think that

:50:28. > :50:37.fast forward six months and I would be arguing just to preserve my pay.

:50:38. > :50:41.court system is not doing enough for victims and witnesses.

:50:42. > :50:44.A growing awareness of Lyme Disease, has led to more people worrying

:50:45. > :50:47.We'll hear from people affected by it.

:50:48. > :50:50.The thought that it could be like this for ever really does scare me

:50:51. > :50:52.sometimes. There's a new pay

:50:53. > :50:59.offer for junior doctors. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt

:51:00. > :51:01.promises an 11% rise but with cuts to extra payments

:51:02. > :51:03.for unsociable hours. The British Medical Association is

:51:04. > :51:06.due to start balloting industrial action tomorrow but junior doctors

:51:07. > :51:08.told this programme they aren't Mr Hunt says he's still

:51:09. > :51:21.willing to negotiate. They have proceeded to ballot for

:51:22. > :51:25.industrial action that begins tomorrow, so I thought the only

:51:26. > :51:30.responsible thing to do is to publish what the offer is today, so

:51:31. > :51:31.it -- when it is clear that they are not interested in any kind of

:51:32. > :51:39.negotiation. is expected to force internet

:51:40. > :51:46.companies to store details about customers' online activity

:51:47. > :51:48.for a year. New legislation

:51:49. > :51:50.on how the police and security services access web data and private

:51:51. > :51:52.communications is published today. A group of MPS says the level of

:51:53. > :51:55.customer service provided by HM is unacceptably poor and a

:51:56. > :51:58."genuine threat to tax collection." The Public Accounts Committee says

:51:59. > :52:00.customer service, which was described

:52:01. > :52:03.as abysmal two years ago, had got worse and they were particularly

:52:04. > :52:17.critical of the failure to prosecute Victims and witnesses in Crown

:52:18. > :52:20.Courts can be confused, marginalised and alienated by the system in

:52:21. > :52:22.England and Wales - according to the Criminal Justice Alliance. That's a

:52:23. > :52:24.coalition of 90 justice campaign groups. Its report talks of

:52:25. > :52:26."structured mayhem" with many delays. And the widow of Robin

:52:27. > :52:29.Williams has spoken publicly for the first time since her husband's

:52:30. > :52:31.death. The actor took his own life last August, leading many to blame

:52:32. > :52:33.depression for his death. Susan Williams told Good Morning America

:52:34. > :52:38.her husband had been suffering from a form of dementia. Dementia killed

:52:39. > :52:42.Robin, it is what took his life, and that is what I have spent the last

:52:43. > :52:45.year trying to get to the bottom of, what took my husband's life?

:52:46. > :52:50.Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Jess.

:52:51. > :52:54.Susie Wolff is retiring from motorsport, she was the first

:52:55. > :52:58.Susie Wolff is retiring from to take part in a Formula 1 Grand

:52:59. > :53:02.Prix for more than 20 years, but the Williams test driver feels her

:53:03. > :53:07.Prix for more than 20 years, but the beyond her, she insists it was not

:53:08. > :53:11.due to her being a woman. I do not believe it was just because of my

:53:12. > :53:15.gender, in Formula 1 we talk about it being the pinnacle of the sport,

:53:16. > :53:18.every driver is aiming for Formula 1, and there are many that do not

:53:19. > :53:21.make it and I was one of those that did not but I got much more

:53:22. > :53:26.attention because of my gender, because of the hope that a female

:53:27. > :53:29.would make it onto the grid. There is more women coming in, getting the

:53:30. > :53:33.job because they are the best in the job, not because of their gender,

:53:34. > :53:40.nobody has been on a quest to get more women into motorsport. I want

:53:41. > :53:44.to inspire the next generation, I want to make sure young little girls

:53:45. > :53:47.realise want to make sure young little girls

:53:48. > :53:52.for them, it is not a boy sport. Cricket, day four of the third and

:53:53. > :53:56.final test between England and Pakistan under way, England started

:53:57. > :54:01.well taking an early wicket, Mohammad Hafeez dragged his heels

:54:02. > :54:08.in. -- dug his heels in. 151, before being called by Ian Bell. Pakistan

:54:09. > :54:10.292-6 a few months ago, lead of 220 runs. Leading the series 1-0.

:54:11. > :54:17.Manchester City arc through to the runs. Leading the series 1-0.

:54:18. > :54:21.after a 3 -1 victory over serve all last night, goals from Raheem

:54:22. > :54:25.Sterling and Fernandinho in the opening 15 minutes gave Manchester

:54:26. > :54:27.City advantage. -- over severe. The attacking

:54:28. > :54:34.City advantage. -- over severe. The Wilfried Bony adding another midway

:54:35. > :54:38.through the half. -- over Sevilla. Good night for the red side of

:54:39. > :54:41.Manchester as well, Manchester United beating CSKA Moscow, Captain

:54:42. > :54:47.Wayne Rooney with the header late on. Tonight it is a small and

:54:48. > :54:53.Chelsea in Champions League action, Arsenal are away to Bayern Munich,

:54:54. > :54:56.Chelsea desperately need a win at home to Dynamo Kyiv to ease the

:54:57. > :55:01.mounting pressure on manager Jose Mourinho. -- tonight it is Arsenal

:55:02. > :55:06.and Chelsea. There has been a lot of criticism from many within the game

:55:07. > :55:10.towards Jose Mourinho. When you get so much from the game and you are in

:55:11. > :55:13.a position of responsibility, I do not doubt that Jose Mourinho loves

:55:14. > :55:15.the game to death, lives and breathes it every minute but when

:55:16. > :55:20.you do not take responsibility for your actions, there is an impact on

:55:21. > :55:25.the rest of football. That is my concern. And finally, what about

:55:26. > :55:30.this, for I welcome home for the New Zealand rugby team, fresh from the

:55:31. > :55:36.All Blacks winning the World Cup, earlier this summer, they were

:55:37. > :55:41.greeted to this. Ground crew for national carrier, Air New Zealand,

:55:42. > :55:47.performing the Haka. Pretty impressive, thousands of fans there,

:55:48. > :55:50.showing off their trophy, led by the captain, Richie McCaw, New Zealand

:55:51. > :55:54.the first team in rugby union history to retain the World Cup.

:55:55. > :56:02.Even more impressive, that the staff were doing that at 7am!

:56:03. > :56:13.Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme

:56:14. > :56:16.if you've just joined us, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News

:56:17. > :56:23.I'll be presenting the programme over the next few weeks

:56:24. > :56:26.whilst Victoria continues her treatment for breast cancer.

:56:27. > :56:32.you can still watch her video diary following her mastectomy

:56:33. > :56:34.by going to our programme page bbc.co,uk/victoria.

:56:35. > :56:38.so far this morning on proposals to increase the pay of junior doctors.

:56:39. > :56:41.Tweet from Vivian - The hourly rate for Junior doctors is low.

:56:42. > :56:44.They care about their patients, They need time off.

:56:45. > :56:48.there are no un-social hours, illness is not 9-5,

:56:49. > :56:51.join the world the rest of us are in.

:56:52. > :56:53.All we hear is "overtime rates" and long hours, get over it.

:56:54. > :56:56.Pay is what you can get not what you want.

:56:57. > :56:57.Really keen to hear your story,

:56:58. > :57:04.texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:57:05. > :57:07.And of course you can watch the programme online

:57:08. > :57:10.wherever you are via the bbc news app or our website

:57:11. > :57:12.bbc.co.uk/victoria -and you can also subscribe to all our features on the

:57:13. > :57:15.news app, by going to add topics and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'

:57:16. > :57:19.Straight to that new, an olive branch has been offered by the

:57:20. > :57:21.Health Secretary this morning in a lots to ditch attempt to persuade

:57:22. > :57:25.junior doctors not to take industrial action, Jeremy Hunt

:57:26. > :57:32.promises an 11% pay rise but there will be cuts to extra payments

:57:33. > :57:34.forwarding unsociable hours. At the moment, junior doctors provide most

:57:35. > :57:37.of the staffing in hospitals during the weekends but receive a higher

:57:38. > :57:40.rate of pay when they work outside of 7am to 7pm Monday to Friday.

:57:41. > :57:42.Under the new deal the number of hours classified as normal would be

:57:43. > :57:44.extended. This week ballot papers are being sent out by the British

:57:45. > :57:48.Medical Association asking its members whether they want to take

:57:49. > :57:50.industrial action. There are no plans to introduce the changes in

:57:51. > :58:00.Scotland and Wales - and Northern Ireland is yet to make a decision.

:58:01. > :58:10.Live now to our political guru Norman Smith. He has done this by

:58:11. > :58:14.the media, what is the calculation? This is high wire politics, I guess,

:58:15. > :58:22.rough rule of thumb is that governments getting involved in bust

:58:23. > :58:26.ups with doctors, nurses, is almost a guaranteed public-relations

:58:27. > :58:30.catastrophe, the risks are immense. I think that his calculation is that

:58:31. > :58:37.he has come up with this really sizeable headline four of 11% and

:58:38. > :58:41.his hope is that a lot of people will think this is an awful lot of

:58:42. > :58:45.money, a darn sight bigger pay rise than I am getting, what are they

:58:46. > :58:51.moaning about? That is the calculation. The risk, of course, is

:58:52. > :58:58.that we get sucked into a dispute with doctors, patient care,

:58:59. > :59:03.splattered across the headlines. One thing that has struck me, I had a

:59:04. > :59:08.long chat with Jeremy Hunt this morning and he clearly sees this as

:59:09. > :59:12.a red line issue. He's not the backing off will stop his argument,

:59:13. > :59:16.bluntly, is that in the manifesto the Conservatives headline the

:59:17. > :59:22.postal was that they wanted to create a 7 days a week 24 hour NHS

:59:23. > :59:25.and changing junior doctors hours is absolutely pivotal to that, trying

:59:26. > :59:30.to make sure more of them work anti-social hours, work weekends and

:59:31. > :59:34.so on and so forth because the argument at the moment is that it is

:59:35. > :59:40.a ramshackle service at weekends and in the evenings and patient safety

:59:41. > :59:44.is put at risk. The other way he's tried to make the argument is really

:59:45. > :59:51.to paint the British Medical Association as some kind of style

:59:52. > :59:54.calcitonin trade union, Don Willingham negotiate with their head

:59:55. > :00:01.in the sand and saying no, no, no. -- unwilling to negotiate. He was

:00:02. > :00:05.rebuffing the idea that he was grandstanding and seeking to beat

:00:06. > :00:08.them about the head. There is no grandstanding at all, what normally

:00:09. > :00:12.happens is you say what you would like to do and you ask them to sit

:00:13. > :00:17.around the table and discuss it. They have refused to talk with us

:00:18. > :00:21.about it. The only responsible thing to do is the day before they ballot

:00:22. > :00:24.members for the industrial action, after refusing to talk to the

:00:25. > :00:31.government, is to say, look at the facts. There is one other huge

:00:32. > :00:37.hulking reason why this is high wire politics, and that is, the shadow of

:00:38. > :00:40.Andrew Lansley, the last Health Secretary, Andrew Lansley, after the

:00:41. > :00:44.last election, came waltzing along with plans to shake up the NHS,

:00:45. > :00:49.involved in an almighty bust up, that led to his demise, major grief

:00:50. > :00:54.and anxiety in government as they had to rewrite large chunks of the

:00:55. > :01:00.plan. The real danger is that Jeremy Hunt suffers a repeat of the Andrew

:01:01. > :01:05.Lansley years. Let's remember what happened to Andrew Lansley, take a

:01:06. > :01:10.look at this, when he turned up for a Downing Street summit, on the NHS.

:01:11. > :01:20.SHOUTING It is not for sale... SHOUTING

:01:21. > :01:24.This is 1974, don't you... This is 1970... SHOUTING

:01:25. > :01:35.Be under no illusions, everyone in government will remember what

:01:36. > :01:39.happened to Andrew Lansley, will remember the political grief they

:01:40. > :01:40.suffered from his attempt at reforms, and they will be incredibly

:01:41. > :01:50.anxious. They will be concerned that Jeremy

:01:51. > :01:56.Hunt has miscalculated and that there will be an upsurge of concern

:01:57. > :02:02.for doctors. This is high while politics. -- high wire politics.

:02:03. > :02:05.Joining me is Dr Johann Malawana, an obstetrics and gynaecology trainee,

:02:06. > :02:07.and chair of the British Medical Association's junior doctors

:02:08. > :02:19.What is your reaction to what Jeremy Hunt has outlined? Well, instead of

:02:20. > :02:23.talking to us and putting the proposals to the junior doctors

:02:24. > :02:27.committee of the BMA, Jeremy Hunt has gone for headlines and released

:02:28. > :02:31.the information in this way. What we keep saying is instead of going for

:02:32. > :02:35.the headline figures, let's look at the detail and work out what is a

:02:36. > :02:40.safe contract for doctors in this country. Safety for doctors

:02:41. > :02:44.translates into safety for patients. If doctors are working in safe

:02:45. > :02:47.practices, they make decisions not when they are tired, and therefore

:02:48. > :02:51.they are safer for patients. On the issue of how he went about it, he

:02:52. > :02:56.was questioned that this morning and he said it was the right thing to do

:02:57. > :03:01.the BMA would not enter into negotiations and there was no other

:03:02. > :03:04.way. We have been clear, we want to see meaningful negotiations. We are

:03:05. > :03:11.very clear that the only way of achieving a solution that we all

:03:12. > :03:15.know needs to happen for the NHS is we have meaningful negotiation, the

:03:16. > :03:18.government takes away the threat of imposition and actually talks to us

:03:19. > :03:21.about how we solve the problems for the next generation. Hasn't he

:03:22. > :03:26.effectively done that this morning by saying, this is out there, we are

:03:27. > :03:30.still willing to negotiate? The style he has approached this says a

:03:31. > :03:34.lot about his thinking. Instead of talking to us, he has put out a

:03:35. > :03:39.headline grabbing figure and attacked me and the BMA and doctors

:03:40. > :03:43.in this country. Is it enough to get the BMA back to the table? We are

:03:44. > :03:50.now working furiously to unpick what he has proposed, because it is a new

:03:51. > :03:54.proposal he has put out. Every week, we see a proposal and a headline

:03:55. > :03:59.that the government has put out. Every week, when we get into the

:04:00. > :04:03.detail, the whole thing unravels. We have had this problem for weeks and

:04:04. > :04:06.months. The government keeps putting out headlines rather than dealing

:04:07. > :04:13.with us in a professional way the way doctors up and down the country

:04:14. > :04:17.want. We are not politicians, we don't do megaphone politics across

:04:18. > :04:21.the dispatch box. We just want to be engaged professionally. So will the

:04:22. > :04:27.ballot go-ahead? We will spend today looking at the detail. So it might

:04:28. > :04:32.not? If the proposal is amply a rehash of what has happened before,

:04:33. > :04:38.then the course of action is clear. -- simply a rehash. We have tried to

:04:39. > :04:42.work with Jeremy Hunt and the Department of Health to achieve a

:04:43. > :04:45.goal that we all say we want, a safe NHS that is there

:04:46. > :04:49.goal that we all say we want, a safe doctors. He says there are material

:04:50. > :04:54.differences in what is offered. He points to the pay increase on the

:04:55. > :04:58.table and the changes in hours that will be classified as overtime. So

:04:59. > :05:03.it looks like there has been some compromise on that. Also a guarantee

:05:04. > :05:06.of an absolute limit of 72 hours that junior doctors would have to

:05:07. > :05:11.work in any week, which is lower than the current 91. On the face of

:05:12. > :05:16.it, it sounds like there is movement. If that is as it seems,

:05:17. > :05:21.would it be enough? We really want to see safeguards on the hours. We

:05:22. > :05:25.have had experience over decades of looking at junior doctors' working

:05:26. > :05:30.patterns, and we know if there are not proper safeguards in place,

:05:31. > :05:36.trusts overworked junior doctors. Why not just go back to the table

:05:37. > :05:39.and carry on negotiations? We have been going through the process for

:05:40. > :05:42.two years and the government were intransigent about the position. But

:05:43. > :05:49.he says he is frustrated that the BMA won't negotiate? It is not just

:05:50. > :05:51.a negotiation to sit around a table, it has to be meaningful. You cannot

:05:52. > :05:54.negotiate it has to be meaningful. You cannot

:05:55. > :05:55.threatening you it has to be meaningful. You cannot

:05:56. > :06:04.of measures before you can it has to be meaningful. You cannot

:06:05. > :06:08.figure, this is not an 11% pay rise by any

:06:09. > :06:12.figure, this is not an 11% pay rise What he is saying, looking at the

:06:13. > :06:13.figure, this is not an 11% pay rise area to another. That says a lot.

:06:14. > :06:22.Instead of being area to another. That says a lot.

:06:23. > :06:24.true, if you are area to another. That says a lot.

:06:25. > :06:28.from one area to another. That says a lot.

:06:29. > :06:31.clear, you're going to look at the proposals carefully today and you

:06:32. > :06:36.will decide definitively by the end of today if the ballot will go ahead

:06:37. > :06:39.or be called off? Essentially, if what is in the proposal is simply

:06:40. > :06:44.what we have had before, it's very clear that we have a course of

:06:45. > :06:47.action, and junior doctors up and down the country are absolutely so

:06:48. > :06:51.upset about what is going on and how they are being treated. Doctors up

:06:52. > :06:58.and down the country are focused on making sure we have a safe NHS for

:06:59. > :07:00.patients and doctors, and that is our key focus, always the safety of

:07:01. > :07:04.patients. Thank you very much. The victims and witnesses

:07:05. > :07:07.of crime often suffer a huge amount of avoidable frustration

:07:08. > :07:09.and distress because they are not adequately supported during

:07:10. > :07:11.the most serious criminal trials. That's the claim from the

:07:12. > :07:17.Criminal Justice Alliance, which is a coalition of 90 organisations

:07:18. > :07:20.involved in policy and practice The report found that

:07:21. > :07:24.the court experience is alienating and chaotic for victims,

:07:25. > :07:27.witnesses and defendants alike. We're joined now by Clive Coleman,

:07:28. > :07:42.our legal affairs guru. Tell us about what is being claimed.

:07:43. > :07:46.The clue is in the title, Structured Mayhem, Personal Experiences Of The

:07:47. > :07:52.Crown Court. It makes a number of findings. It says the language used

:07:53. > :07:55.is old-fashioned, it is elaborate, ritualised and alienating for

:07:56. > :08:01.people. It says the wigs and gowns worn by barristers and judges create

:08:02. > :08:06.a sense of otherworldliness. Whilst that preserves the all of the Crown

:08:07. > :08:13.Court, it also alienates victims and witnesses. -- the aura. It talks

:08:14. > :08:17.about the process being chaotic, delays and frustrations. Bringing a

:08:18. > :08:21.large cast of characters together over the requisite period of time,

:08:22. > :08:24.together with documents, evidence, video recording and physical exits

:08:25. > :08:29.is a challenging task video recording and physical exits

:08:30. > :08:31.often does go wrong. It is a provocative report and

:08:32. > :08:33.often does go wrong. It is a pretending the Crown Court is

:08:34. > :08:37.running perfectly pretending the Crown Court is

:08:38. > :08:43.smoothly. What I should say about the report, the sample is pretty

:08:44. > :08:47.small. They talked to 90 adult court users, some professionals in the

:08:48. > :08:51.system, and they observed 200 hours of court time. Every year in England

:08:52. > :08:56.and Wales, thousands of defendants are tried. That gives you an idea of

:08:57. > :08:59.the size of the sample. There is already a huge amount being done to

:09:00. > :09:06.try and address a number of these issues. Initiatives such as a

:09:07. > :09:11.Management scheme which is designed to get earlier hearings in cases in

:09:12. > :09:15.the Crown Court so everyone gets their ducks in a row, you know what

:09:16. > :09:19.the evidence is and which witnesses are going to be called, which will

:09:20. > :09:24.need special attention, such as giving their evidence by way of

:09:25. > :09:27.video link. There is also a system called Digital case management,

:09:28. > :09:33.which is designed to ensure that you do not have a morass of documents

:09:34. > :09:36.flying around, you have everything in an electronic case file that the

:09:37. > :09:39.barristers and the judge can access through secure e-mail and secure

:09:40. > :09:45.Wi-Fi. So there is a lot of work being done. A lot of people working

:09:46. > :09:49.within the system will say, yes, they are trying very hard but they

:09:50. > :09:51.need resources. The Crown Prosecution Service, which is the

:09:52. > :09:55.gatekeeper for a lot of this evidence that gets the whole thing

:09:56. > :09:58.going, has suffered some pretty savage cuts in terms of its

:09:59. > :10:02.resources in recent times. Thank you, Clive.

:10:03. > :10:06.We can speak now to Zoe Dronfield, who in 2014 was kicked in the head

:10:07. > :10:08.and stabbed by her on-off boyfriend in what the judge later

:10:09. > :10:12.He was jailed for 14 years in March this year.

:10:13. > :10:16.Also here with us is Kirsty Brimelow QC, who's a criminal barrister.

:10:17. > :10:24.Thank you both for joining us. Zoe, as we heard, you were involved in a

:10:25. > :10:29.court hearing as a witness and a victim. How did you feel about the

:10:30. > :10:35.court proceedings? Well, it took a long time to get to court, over a

:10:36. > :10:40.year and a half. My life was put on hold while I waited for that

:10:41. > :10:45.process. A longer time waiting for it to get to court, the

:10:46. > :10:52.communication was very slim. -- along the time. I wasn't updated, I

:10:53. > :10:55.would find things out late. Your life is put on hold. What could have

:10:56. > :11:00.been done differently? Communication. There was a severe

:11:01. > :11:07.lack of good indication between the various agencies that deal with you.

:11:08. > :11:10.The CPS, the police. -- a severe lack of communication. They are

:11:11. > :11:16.meant to update you on what is going on. Kirsty, do you think this is a

:11:17. > :11:25.fair assessment of what is going on? As Clive said, it is a small sample.

:11:26. > :11:28.In 2014, there were 127,000 defendants in the Crown Court.

:11:29. > :11:31.Unfortunately, the authors of the report seemed to have a

:11:32. > :11:36.misconception about the justice system in this country, in that it

:11:37. > :11:40.is adversarial. They seemed to expect it to be more of an

:11:41. > :11:45.inquisitorial system. That comes through in the report, so there are

:11:46. > :11:49.a number of inaccuracies. However I completely accept what they are

:11:50. > :11:52.saying, that there should be the communication and care for

:11:53. > :11:57.witnesses. But the difficulty is when there is a government that is

:11:58. > :12:03.constantly cutting, so on one day there will be an usher and a clog in

:12:04. > :12:14.a court, and the next day there is one person doing both jobs... -- a

:12:15. > :12:17.clog. -- a clerk. When Zoe says communication would have made her

:12:18. > :12:24.life better, that is not difficult to achieve, is it? Well, it all

:12:25. > :12:30.needs financing. There is a witness service system, a witness care

:12:31. > :12:33.system. One of them is staffed entirely by volunteers. And they do

:12:34. > :12:40.their best. The government doesn't even think it's sufficiently

:12:41. > :12:45.important to pay those people. And I have found from my own experience in

:12:46. > :12:50.the Crown Court system that it's just getting on its knees now, we

:12:51. > :12:55.are getting examples like this with a huge delay of accessing the

:12:56. > :13:00.court... You also have the position where the paid for barristers, you

:13:01. > :13:04.have seen on two occasions, a profession, really, which is deeply

:13:05. > :13:08.conservative, has actually been on strike. Saying that barristers

:13:09. > :13:13.cannot afford to do this work any more. And they are part of the

:13:14. > :13:17.system that is keeping it going. One thing from the report, although it

:13:18. > :13:21.observed some chaos, it did say that it all moves forward, but that is

:13:22. > :13:24.only because the lawyers and the judges work all hours to ensure it

:13:25. > :13:33.keeps going. I wish those problems were addressed. Some breaking news

:13:34. > :13:37.we are getting, the NHS Trust which ran Stafford Hospital has pleaded

:13:38. > :13:42.guilty at Stafford Magistrates' Court to health and safety breaches

:13:43. > :13:48.relating to the deaths of four elderly patients in its care. The

:13:49. > :13:55.NHS Trust that Rand Stafford Hospital has pleaded guilty to

:13:56. > :14:01.breaches relating to the deaths of four elderly patients. -- that Rand.

:14:02. > :14:06.Back to the issue of how people are treated within the court system, did

:14:07. > :14:11.you feel when you were part of the trial that you knew what was going

:14:12. > :14:16.on? No, absolutely not. A real lack of empathy from the staff within the

:14:17. > :14:22.court settings. You are not told anything because you are part of the

:14:23. > :14:26.evidence. You are not able to have a conversation with the prosecuting

:14:27. > :14:30.barrister. They say hello and wander off. You are a bit bemused and it is

:14:31. > :14:37.daunting. It is like walking into a different world, the wooden

:14:38. > :14:42.benches, the wigs that they wear and everything. Did you feel in the end

:14:43. > :14:47.that your voice was heard and justice was done? Were you happy

:14:48. > :14:51.with the outcome in the end? I felt justice was done but I have no idea

:14:52. > :14:55.if my voice was heard because I had special measures, I wasn't able to

:14:56. > :15:01.get any feedback from the court case, I just knew the sentence,

:15:02. > :15:05.that's it. Then it is, you have the sentence details, off you go and

:15:06. > :15:08.carry on with your life. I have no idea because I was not able to

:15:09. > :15:15.listen to the trial and know what was going on. Is that something you

:15:16. > :15:18.can see is an issue, that there is an obvious solution to? Probably to

:15:19. > :15:21.have an understanding about the process. I didn't have an

:15:22. > :15:26.understanding, we were discussing that before... Not understanding

:15:27. > :15:30.what is happening next, being thrown into this whole different world,

:15:31. > :15:33.this is what is happening... From moment to moment, you are pillar to

:15:34. > :15:40.post and you don't really understand. We were chatting before

:15:41. > :15:44.we came on about Zoe's experiences. It is an experience which

:15:45. > :15:49.undoubtedly is not unique to her. As to what can improve, you need better

:15:50. > :15:55.communication, you need somebody explaining to you what goes on. That

:15:56. > :15:58.there are parts of the hearing where you, as a witness, will not be in

:15:59. > :16:03.court because of the rules of evidence which are there to ensure a

:16:04. > :16:08.fair trial. Probably that could be done in advance of the trial so you

:16:09. > :16:11.would be much more prepared and your expectations would be managed

:16:12. > :16:17.better. But it comes down to resources. Who is going to do this?

:16:18. > :16:21.There is no funding available. There are more cuts. I am very proud of

:16:22. > :16:26.the Criminal Justice System in this country. I think it does work well,

:16:27. > :16:31.it obviously has its faults, but it is so dispiriting to see what is

:16:32. > :16:35.happening. Zoe's experience is going to become more and more intense and

:16:36. > :16:39.widespread. Because there is no one there to assist. Obviously it is not

:16:40. > :16:43.nice for the victims or the witnesses to feel like they are in

:16:44. > :16:46.the dark, but in the end, does it have any impact on whether justice

:16:47. > :16:52.is done and should people have faith over all in the system?

:16:53. > :17:01.I want Zoe to feel, at the end, that can fend defended was convicted,

:17:02. > :17:07.serious case, he had a lengthy period of imprisonment. -- at the

:17:08. > :17:10.end, the defendant was convicted. I would like her to feel more

:17:11. > :17:15.favourable towards the court system, she is not, she did not feel happy

:17:16. > :17:18.about it, there is a lot that must be changed. There is straightforward

:17:19. > :17:22.changes that can be made but it needs funding to get more bodies in

:17:23. > :17:26.place, to assist witnesses and explain what is going on much

:17:27. > :17:33.better. Obviously things can be done. In terms of barristers, one

:17:34. > :17:38.thing that I would say, the council has been working hard to train

:17:39. > :17:42.barristers, so that we are much more empathetic, in terms of dealing with

:17:43. > :17:47.people who are vulnerable, special measures are there which seem to be

:17:48. > :17:50.working well. Do barristers not necessarily see everyone as humans

:17:51. > :17:57.in the system? There has been terrible example is of cases,

:17:58. > :18:02.particularly with sex cases, where barristers have paved appallingly.

:18:03. > :18:05.Thankfully this is 20 years ago. What I wish would happen in terms of

:18:06. > :18:10.a report, it would acknowledge the progress that has been made and the

:18:11. > :18:14.changes that have been made, so that Zoe, for example, could have special

:18:15. > :18:18.measures, so that she is not physically in the courtroom, so it

:18:19. > :18:24.is done down a link. I was in the court, behind a screen. You can do

:18:25. > :18:29.it through a link, so that is an option, or behind screens. The

:18:30. > :18:32.it through a link, so that is an is that it achieves better

:18:33. > :18:37.protection, so that it is a bit better. There needs to be more. I

:18:38. > :18:40.wish we had the government behind the criminal justice system making

:18:41. > :18:45.it better. The whole process makes the victim feel like they are on

:18:46. > :18:47.trial, that is what must change. You will get that to an extent with this

:18:48. > :18:51.adversarial system, that is the will get that to an extent with this

:18:52. > :18:53.difficulty, you will not feel like you being believed. That is going to

:18:54. > :18:56.be quite you being believed. That is going to

:18:57. > :19:01.can be more communication. If you you being believed. That is going to

:19:02. > :19:03.are put in a situation where you are in the same room, with the offender,

:19:04. > :19:06.asked in the same way in the same room, with the offender,

:19:07. > :19:14.offender, you feel like you are on trial, it is the same process

:19:15. > :19:16.happening to them. There are other things that

:19:17. > :19:21.happening to them. There are other could go on for

:19:22. > :19:27.happening to them. There are other very much coming in, the

:19:28. > :19:48.Breaking needs to bring you about the Crown Prosecution Service being

:19:49. > :19:52.fined ?200,000, by the data protection watchdog, the information

:19:53. > :19:56.Commissioner's office, over the theft of laptops containing videos

:19:57. > :20:00.of police interviews linked to 31 investigations, many of them

:20:01. > :20:04.involving sex and violent offences. ?200,000 fine for the CPS from the

:20:05. > :20:23.information Commissioner 's office over the theft of those laptops.

:20:24. > :20:27.They proceeded to ballot for industrial action that starts

:20:28. > :20:31.tomorrow, so I thought that the only responsible thing to do is to

:20:32. > :20:36.publish what the offer is today, when it is clear that they are not

:20:37. > :20:40.interested in any sort of negotiation. There is a new pay

:20:41. > :20:43.offer for junior doctors, Jeremy Hunt has promised an 11% rise

:20:44. > :20:46.offer for junior doctors, Jeremy with cuts to extra payments for

:20:47. > :20:49.unsociable hours, the British Medical Association is due to ballot

:20:50. > :20:53.industrial action tomorrow, junior doctors have told this programme

:20:54. > :20:55.that they are not happy with the new proposal. Jeremy Hunt says he's to

:20:56. > :21:02.negotiate. Scathing criticism

:21:03. > :21:06.of the tax office by MPs says And the Public Accounts Committee

:21:07. > :21:08.warns that prosecutions of offshore tax evaders are

:21:09. > :21:13.'woefully inadequate'. revive its women's fashion range

:21:14. > :21:15.failed to attract enough shoppers. Clothing accounts for about 40%

:21:16. > :21:17.of sales. And the widow of Robin Williams

:21:18. > :21:25.has spoken publicly for the first The actor took his own life

:21:26. > :21:29.last August, leading many to Susan Williams told Good Morning

:21:30. > :21:43.America her husband had been It was the dementia that killed him,

:21:44. > :21:45.it is what took his life, and that is what I have tried to spend the

:21:46. > :21:51.last year getting to the bottom of. There is new is in sport of a

:21:52. > :22:00.trailblazer deciding to retire. Susie Wolff is retiring from

:22:01. > :22:03.motorsport, she was the first woman to take part in a Formula 1 Grand

:22:04. > :22:07.Prix for more than 20 years, but the Williams test driver feels her dream

:22:08. > :22:12.of reaching the starting grid was beyond her, she insists it was

:22:13. > :22:18.not due to her being a woman. Cricket,

:22:19. > :22:20.day four of the third and final test between England and Pakistan under

:22:21. > :22:28.way, England started well taking an early wicket, Mohammad Hafeez has

:22:29. > :22:35.taken charge. First half goals from Raheem

:22:36. > :22:38.Sterling, Fernandinho and Wilfried Bony secured a victory for

:22:39. > :22:43.Manchester City over their Spanish opponents Seville, 3-1. They are

:22:44. > :22:46.through to the next round of the Champions League. Wayne Rooney with

:22:47. > :22:48.a late header gave Manchester United a win at Old Trafford over CSKA

:22:49. > :22:56.Moscow in the Champions League. So the tax office is under fire from

:22:57. > :23:00.MPs, they accuse it of failing to tackle evasion by the wealthy and

:23:01. > :23:02.offering such bad customer service The Public Accounts Committee said

:23:03. > :23:06.Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs answered only half

:23:07. > :23:09.of all calls made and only 39% of them within

:23:10. > :23:25.five minutes. Only half the calls being answered.

:23:26. > :23:30.We have had examples of people who have listened to the phone saying,

:23:31. > :23:35.hold on, your call is important to us, 300 times, and still have not

:23:36. > :23:39.got through. That basically... The committee says is a system where

:23:40. > :23:42.people who are trying to pay their tax are being discouraged from

:23:43. > :23:47.getting in touch with the tax collectors. On top of that, wealthy

:23:48. > :23:51.individuals who are hiding money overseas, simply are not being

:23:52. > :23:55.prosecuted. HMRC has prosecuted only 11 people in the last five years for

:23:56. > :23:59.hiding money overseas. They have even been given a list of 3600

:24:00. > :24:02.people with private bank accounts in Switzerland that they did not know

:24:03. > :24:11.about and they have prosecuted one person. What has been said in

:24:12. > :24:13.response from HMRC? They say they are collecting a record amount of

:24:14. > :24:16.tax and they say they are disappointed that the record results

:24:17. > :24:29.have been overlooked, and they continue:

:24:30. > :24:31.This morning you've been getting in touch about this story,

:24:32. > :24:34.here are just some of the many messages we've received today.

:24:35. > :24:35.Tanya from Wiltshire has been in touch:

:24:36. > :24:38."I spent over an hour and a half on hold.

:24:39. > :24:40.When I did get through, he was extremely brash and put me

:24:41. > :24:45."My personal experience with the HMRC Customer Service Line

:24:46. > :24:49.Mr P Wells from Sudbury e-mailed to say:

:24:50. > :24:52.and waited 45 minutes for an answer."

:24:53. > :24:55.And Andrew Vaton from Milton Keynes who runs a small business got in

:24:56. > :24:59."If I have any queries involving tax issues I'd have to

:25:00. > :25:01.take the morning off now to wait until someone answers the phone!"

:25:02. > :25:09.Please do keep your stories coming in.

:25:10. > :25:15.Is anything going to change? There is 3000 extra staff, but that is not

:25:16. > :25:19.going to persuade the committee that they have done enough, two years ago

:25:20. > :25:23.they looked at this and they thought that customer service levels were

:25:24. > :25:26.abysmal, now they say they have got even worse and they are a threat to

:25:27. > :25:31.the tax collection system, that is how bad they are judged to be. Keep

:25:32. > :25:32.getting in touch with that and everything else we are talking

:25:33. > :25:35.about. An Indonesian court has convicted

:25:36. > :25:37.two British journalists accused of violating the country's

:25:38. > :25:42.immigration laws. Neil Bonner and Rebecca Prosser have

:25:43. > :25:45.been sentenced to two and a half months in jail and

:25:46. > :25:49.received a fine of around ?1,600. The journalists were making a film

:25:50. > :25:52.about piracy for a London-based production company when they were

:25:53. > :25:54.arrested by the Indonesian navy. They've been imprisoned since May

:25:55. > :25:56.of this year so with the time already served they

:25:57. > :25:59.could be free within days. who's Rebecca's sister

:26:00. > :26:08.and is in Indonesia. Thank you the joining us, you were

:26:09. > :26:16.in court yesterday to see your sister sentenced, what was it like?

:26:17. > :26:20.Really nervous. You may know that the charge against them carries a

:26:21. > :26:22.maximum sentence of up to five years, and so obviously, we were

:26:23. > :26:28.very worried about the outcome of the hearing. And so when the

:26:29. > :26:31.translator told me that they had been given two and a half months,

:26:32. > :26:36.and knowing they had already served that time, it was an enormous

:26:37. > :26:43.relief. I burst into tears. There and then. It was a very emotional

:26:44. > :26:47.day. Becky and kneel as well, extremely relieved, they have had

:26:48. > :26:52.this hanging over their heads for more than five months. And so it was

:26:53. > :27:02.an extremely emotional day for all of us. Are you expecting now that

:27:03. > :27:07.she could be out, we're waiting to hear from the prosecutor 's office.

:27:08. > :27:16.We're hoping that we will hear today. Their sentence expires

:27:17. > :27:18.tomorrow. If an appeal is not large they should be released from prison

:27:19. > :27:25.tomorrow, although they will still be held in immigration detention

:27:26. > :27:29.while their case is processed. We are not quite out of the woods yet

:27:30. > :27:33.but we really hope that the prosecutors do not decide to appeal

:27:34. > :27:41.the sentence. How is Rebecca coping with all of this? I saw her on

:27:42. > :27:47.Sunday, just before the trial, both her and kneel were really anxious.

:27:48. > :27:55.Rebecca has been incredibly strong, through this whole process, I am so

:27:56. > :28:02.proud of her. Sorry... Today she was very relieved, she still has the

:28:03. > :28:08.prospect of a possible appeal, they have that in mind. She has made some

:28:09. > :28:12.good friends among the other prisoners. A lot of what she has

:28:13. > :28:15.talked about today was worrying about what will happen to them in

:28:16. > :28:21.the future more than herself, really. Obviously this is an

:28:22. > :28:26.emotional time for all of you, how difficult has it been to watch your

:28:27. > :28:31.sister going through this? It has been every ordeal for the whole

:28:32. > :28:36.family. Having my sister 7000 miles away from home... It has taken a

:28:37. > :28:40.real toll on my mother and father and Neil Warnock riposte mother and

:28:41. > :28:44.father as well. This is my second trip out here, I came out the first

:28:45. > :28:47.time when I was first moved to prison, that was the first time I

:28:48. > :28:54.had seen person she had been detained. For us, it has been

:28:55. > :28:57.nothing short of a nightmare. And we are now just hoping that the

:28:58. > :29:02.nightmare is going to be over within the next few days. Do you think this

:29:03. > :29:09.experience will have fundamentally changed your sister in the end? If

:29:10. > :29:14.anything I think it will make her stronger, I have been very impressed

:29:15. > :29:21.with her compassion. She is a film-maker, she likes to tell people

:29:22. > :29:27.stories, and I think that she has had a real exposure to some very

:29:28. > :29:33.heartbreaking stories through this process, and if anything, I think it

:29:34. > :29:36.will inspire her, not deter her. Stay in touch and let us know what

:29:37. > :29:41.happens tomorrow, thank you very much for joining us.

:29:42. > :29:43.Lyme disease is a bacterial infection that's spread

:29:44. > :29:47.It's estimated that up to 3,000 new cases of the disease are diagnosed

:29:48. > :29:50.Symptoms can include a distinctive rash, tiredness,

:29:51. > :29:54.The disease can be treated effectively if it's recognised early

:29:55. > :29:56.on, but diagnosis is difficult because so many

:29:57. > :29:59.of the symptoms are similar to other conditions such as chronic fatigue.

:30:00. > :30:02.Nicola Beckford went to meet two women to find out what it's

:30:03. > :30:22.VOICEOVER: Lyme disease can be a debilitating illness with symptoms

:30:23. > :30:26.including chronic fatigue, fevers and heart problems, anyone can get

:30:27. > :30:37.it but how easy is it to get a diagnosis?

:30:38. > :30:44.The NHS estimates there is up to 3000 cases of the disease in England

:30:45. > :30:48.and Wales each year, about 15% of cases are contracted overseas. It is

:30:49. > :30:52.and Wales each year, about 15% of spread to humans by a bite from an

:30:53. > :30:56.infected tick. They live in woodland as well as city parks and gardens.

:30:57. > :31:01.It can be treated with antibiotics if caught early but if treatment is

:31:02. > :31:05.delayed or the disease is misdiagnosed, it can lead to serious

:31:06. > :31:09.long-term problems. There is controversy over what is known as

:31:10. > :31:13.chronic Lyme disease, these patients have the sentence of Lyme disease

:31:14. > :31:16.but have normal blood tests. Public Health England says that it is

:31:17. > :31:20.difficult to say whether these patients definitely have the

:31:21. > :31:25.disease. Many other infections can trigger identical symptoms. Jessica

:31:26. > :31:28.tested positive on the NHS. It took her seven years to get an NHS

:31:29. > :31:40.diagnosis. Before I had Lyme disease, I worked

:31:41. > :31:43.in the fitness industry and I interchange that with my equestrian

:31:44. > :31:46.career. I was very ambitious and driven and I wanted to travel the

:31:47. > :31:53.world, so I dipped in and out of both careers. I was in peak physical

:31:54. > :31:59.shape, I would run marathons, a keen runner at the time. At the time I

:32:00. > :32:03.was working on a contract in Germany and I had been there for about 12

:32:04. > :32:11.months. When did you start to feel ill? I started to feel really,

:32:12. > :32:15.really tired. Flu like. I thought I was coming down with something and

:32:16. > :32:20.didn't really think much of it. Then I started to get severe migraines,

:32:21. > :32:28.really searing headaches, they were stroke like migraines, so I would

:32:29. > :32:33.lose my speech. I wouldn't be able to communicate with people. It was

:32:34. > :32:37.quite frightening at the time. I just thought I had been doing too

:32:38. > :32:45.much. And then out of nowhere, probably four months after the

:32:46. > :32:49.initial bite, I had really terrible depression. Nobody was connecting

:32:50. > :32:52.the dots, and I wasn't connecting the dots, because Lyme disease

:32:53. > :32:57.wasn't something I had ever heard of. I was researching night and day

:32:58. > :33:02.from my bed, I stumbled across Lyme disease, started to look into it and

:33:03. > :33:04.I knew, I just knew as soon as I started reading it, I thought I'm

:33:05. > :33:31.pretty sure it was what I had. You used to be superwoman. Wonder

:33:32. > :33:35.Woman! So when you look back at those photos... I can't. I'm

:33:36. > :33:48.heartbroken. I am. I went through a phase... I had to

:33:49. > :33:52.deactivate my social media, because I felt this responsibility to all

:33:53. > :34:01.the people that followed me to be this inspirational person. And

:34:02. > :34:05.behind closed doors, I was just so unwell. Looking back through my

:34:06. > :34:11.photos and stuff, I just feel devastated. Devastated, because this

:34:12. > :34:17.isn't the life I wanted for myself at all. I felt like I have the world

:34:18. > :34:23.at my feet. I had just taken some professional athletes onto my books

:34:24. > :34:27.as a sports nutritionist. I was so excited about my future. I really

:34:28. > :34:34.was. I always thought I was destined to do stuff with my life, and having

:34:35. > :34:37.it all taken away like that, now knowing it was because of an insect

:34:38. > :34:49.bite, it's hard to comprehend. The doctors I have come into contact

:34:50. > :34:56.with, they just don't listen, they don't see what's in front of them.

:34:57. > :34:59.They just assume they know what's right. And maybe they do a lot of

:35:00. > :35:07.the time, but I don't think I was listened to at all. The test that I

:35:08. > :35:10.have is a private test from America. And they don't accept it. I was

:35:11. > :35:28.negative on the NHS test. It is hard to talk about. I try not

:35:29. > :35:37.to think about it too much. Because the thought that it would be like

:35:38. > :35:45.this for ever scares me sometimes. So I just take my pills and I stick

:35:46. > :35:50.to my diet. Just hope that each day is better...

:35:51. > :35:58.Just the fact that we don't get any support in this country from

:35:59. > :36:04.doctors, just anyone... It shouldn't be this way. One day you will feel

:36:05. > :36:08.relatively normal and you will be able to do kind of normal things,

:36:09. > :36:15.and then the next day you won't be able to get out of bed. Could you

:36:16. > :36:22.not get help on the NHS? No. Did you go to the NHS? We did, but the test

:36:23. > :36:28.I have is a private test from America and they don't accept it.

:36:29. > :36:32.And I was negative on the NHS test, because their testing is not

:36:33. > :36:39.sensitive enough. So they didn't pick up the infection. My parents

:36:40. > :36:44.have paid taxes for a long period, and we have spent ?100,000 on

:36:45. > :36:47.medical bills. It's not right. Public Health England advises the

:36:48. > :36:55.government and the NHS on health matters. Their laboratories at

:36:56. > :37:00.Porton down test patients for Lyme disease among other things. I don't

:37:01. > :37:05.think there is enough knowledge about Lyme disease. We know it has

:37:06. > :37:09.spread, the cases have increased, we have had confirmed cases from

:37:10. > :37:13.virtually every corner of the United Kingdom. There are a lot of

:37:14. > :37:17.frustrated, ill patients who feel they have had a rum deal. Going

:37:18. > :37:22.abroad and spending a lot of money often is not the answer, because a

:37:23. > :37:25.lot of the treatments are not evidence -based. There will be a lot

:37:26. > :37:31.of people who think they have Lyme disease, they have gone abroad and

:37:32. > :37:35.they will be listening to you and saying, I don't buy it. What would

:37:36. > :37:46.you say to them? Patients with confirmed Lyme disease get better

:37:47. > :37:48.usually on short-course antibiotics. Patients with chronic symptoms

:37:49. > :37:52.nobody really understands the pathology behind it. But it's not

:37:53. > :37:58.believe that long-term antibiotics help in those situations. Early in

:37:59. > :38:01.the disease, the test is going to be negative. In certain other

:38:02. > :38:09.conditions, the test may be negative as well. I think we need a better

:38:10. > :38:13.test to predict active in -- infection. Public Health England are

:38:14. > :38:17.currently talking to foreign clinics and looking at alternative research

:38:18. > :38:21.techniques for diagnosing Lyme disease. They say that GPs should

:38:22. > :38:26.take all patient symptoms into account and not just treat them on

:38:27. > :38:31.the basis of a single test. But in the meantime, patients like Jess and

:38:32. > :38:36.Hayley fear that many more cases could go undetected. Nicola on

:38:37. > :38:40.Facebook says she has been suffering it for years and that doctors keep

:38:41. > :39:01.sending her away. Joanne: doctors need to have open minds and

:39:02. > :39:04.consider empirical treatments. Trevor on Facebook says, very

:39:05. > :39:08.worrying, like all dog owners, I check my pet for ticks and flees

:39:09. > :39:14.every day but until recent articles I was not aware that my family and I

:39:15. > :39:21.were at risk. More detail on the news about the NHS Trust that ran

:39:22. > :39:24.Stafford Hospital pleading guilty to significant health and safety

:39:25. > :39:28.breaches connected to the deaths of four elderly patients in its care.

:39:29. > :39:32.Stafford 's magistrate court has heard this morning that three of the

:39:33. > :39:36.deaths occurred after false, while another happened after a patient was

:39:37. > :39:44.given penicillin despite hospital staff being told she was allergic.

:39:45. > :39:46.-- after falls. They pleaded guilty to four offences through its

:39:47. > :39:47.solicitor and will