05/11/2015

:00:07. > :00:10.Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:11. > :00:18.Security fears leave thousands of British tourists stranded

:00:19. > :00:29.We are meant to fly back with easyJet to Gatwick.

:00:30. > :00:32.The Government suspends all flights between Britain and the resort

:00:33. > :00:37.in Egypt following the Russian plane crash last weekend.

:00:38. > :00:40.As the Egyptian president arrives in the UK for talks; we'll bring you

:00:41. > :00:46.Also ahead; a mum whose son was groomed

:00:47. > :00:49.on the internet and then murdered tells this programme all parents

:00:50. > :00:53.should be aware of the dangers their children face on the internet.

:00:54. > :00:56.After four thousand deaths Sierra Leone will be declared Ebola free at

:00:57. > :01:01.the end of this week; we hear from families re-building their lives.

:01:02. > :01:07.My mother is feeling well but every night she cry. She lost the whole

:01:08. > :01:17.family. Hello, welcome to our programme,

:01:18. > :01:20.we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News We're going to keep you right

:01:21. > :01:26.across all the developments following the government's decision

:01:27. > :01:29.to suspend all flights between The Prime Minister will chair

:01:30. > :01:35.another emergency meeting later we're expecting the Transport

:01:36. > :01:40.Secretary Patrick McLoughlin We'll bring that to you

:01:41. > :01:45.when it happens. DO get in touch with us

:01:46. > :01:47.throughout the programme. Texts will be charged

:01:48. > :01:50.at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

:01:51. > :01:52.the programme online wherever you are via the bbc news app or

:01:53. > :01:55.our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria; you can also subscribe to all

:01:56. > :01:59.our features on the news app, by going to add topics

:02:00. > :02:01.and searching Victoria Derbyshire. It is now mid-morning

:02:02. > :02:05.in Sharm el Sheikh and thousands of British holiday-makers hoping to

:02:06. > :02:09.leave the Egyptian resort are stuck after all flights to and from the UK

:02:10. > :02:12.last night were suspended over The British Government has said

:02:13. > :02:17.there's a 'significant possibility' that so called Islamic State

:02:18. > :02:20.militants were behind a suspected bomb attack on a Russian airliner

:02:21. > :02:24.that killed all 224 people on board. There are about 20,000 British

:02:25. > :02:28.nationals in Sharm el Sheikh, about The Red Sea resort is visited

:02:29. > :02:38.by hundreds of thousands of Britons And Egypt says the suspension

:02:39. > :02:43.of flights will have 'huge consequences' for the country's

:02:44. > :02:47.troubled tourism industry. Here's what holidaymakers waiting

:02:48. > :02:59.at the airport have been saying. Our flight has been grounded because

:03:00. > :03:03.of security concerns. We were stood in the queue waiting to get on the

:03:04. > :03:05.plane when they told us to all two and sit down because we weren't

:03:06. > :03:06.going anywhere. This new footage was filmed just

:03:07. > :03:10.moments after the Russian plane crashed into the Sinai desert

:03:11. > :03:14.killing all 224 people on board. Rescue teams rushed to the scene

:03:15. > :03:25.but there were no survivors. Military experts are with the

:03:26. > :03:28.security team sent from the UK to review safety and procedures at

:03:29. > :03:31.Sharm El-Sheikh Airport. They'll be working with Foreign Office and

:03:32. > :03:35.Department of Transport officials. The Foreign Secretary says he does

:03:36. > :03:41.expect that British tourists can begin to be flown home from Sharm

:03:42. > :03:45.El-Sheikh tomorrow. There were a significant number of British

:03:46. > :03:47.flights due out today, 19 in total I think scheduled for today, and they

:03:48. > :03:51.would have been bringing holiday-makers back. The flights

:03:52. > :03:56.will now not happen today, but the airlines are telling us that they

:03:57. > :04:01.expect by tomorrow that they will be in a position to start flying those

:04:02. > :04:07.British visitors back to the UK, so we are spending today with the

:04:08. > :04:11.airlines, the Egyptian authorities, putting in place short-term

:04:12. > :04:14.emergency measures that will allow us to screen everything going on to

:04:15. > :04:20.the planes, double check those planes, so that we can be confident

:04:21. > :04:24.that they can fly back safely to the UK and then we'll keep those

:04:25. > :04:29.short-term special measures in place for as long as it takes to bring

:04:30. > :04:33.holiday-makers who're in Sharm back to the UK on their original schedule

:04:34. > :04:40.departure dates, if that's what they want to do. Then, as a second phase,

:04:41. > :04:48.we'll be looking with the Egyptians at how to tighten up routine

:04:49. > :04:50.security at Sharm so we can rezuem normal operations as soon as

:04:51. > :04:52.possible and that's very much what we an and the Egyptians want to

:04:53. > :04:55.achieve. The decision to suspend flights came

:04:56. > :04:58.as the Egyptian President, Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, arrived in the UK to

:04:59. > :05:01.hold talks with David Cameron. Before he set off to London,

:05:02. > :05:04.he spoke to our correspondent Lyse Doucet just days before

:05:05. > :05:06.the Russian plane crashed in Sinai: He wanted to stop fears that

:05:07. > :05:23.the reach of so called Islamic TRANSLATION: We are talking about an

:05:24. > :05:28.area that equals less than 1% of Sinai. We have dealt with large

:05:29. > :05:31.numbers of militants with weapons and explosives. We have achieved a

:05:32. > :05:35.great deal but of course it's incomplete. We'll carry on the

:05:36. > :05:41.fight. So you don't have it under control yet? No, no, we have the

:05:42. > :05:47.area under full control. You have it? Of course. We will never accept

:05:48. > :05:52.that we are not in control of our country. It is the army's job to

:05:53. > :05:54.stop these killers who terrify and murder Egyptians.

:05:55. > :05:58.The first funeral of one of the 224 victims of the crash will take

:05:59. > :06:05.Olga lost her son and daughter-in-law.

:06:06. > :06:08.They'd been on a two week break in Egypt to celebrate

:06:09. > :06:36.We can speak now to two British tourists currently in Sharm.

:06:37. > :06:46.We can speak to Leon Clo. You were one of those stranded, what is your

:06:47. > :06:51.situation? I was due to leave today after my flight was delayed. Then I

:06:52. > :06:55.got a message last night from easyJet saying all flights were

:06:56. > :06:59.suspended until further notice. I'm still waiting to hear back. I just

:07:00. > :07:02.received a message around a minute ago telling me there was no new

:07:03. > :07:07.information, no new news from easyJet as to when the flights will

:07:08. > :07:10.go ahead again so we are pretty much just waiting here. Are you happy

:07:11. > :07:15.that you are getting as much information as you can? I mean,

:07:16. > :07:18.there is quite a disparity in the information we are getting between

:07:19. > :07:21.the Egyptian sources here and between the British sources as well.

:07:22. > :07:27.So the Foreign Office have been telling us that there is a threat

:07:28. > :07:31.and that's why they have suspended flights, but Egyptian sources are

:07:32. > :07:34.telling us this is mostly propaganda and even the hotel staff have told

:07:35. > :07:37.us that there are coaches coming to pick us up and take us to the

:07:38. > :07:41.airport because our flights are due to leave. So everyone is slightly

:07:42. > :07:44.confused. Although I'm happy with the information we have received

:07:45. > :07:47.from the Foreign Office, it's quite conclusive. Do you think it was the

:07:48. > :07:52.right decision? How do you feel about this? I believe it was the

:07:53. > :07:56.right decision. I believe security should be paramount due to the fact

:07:57. > :08:02.that the region itself is quite a hot bed of terrorism. It's essential

:08:03. > :08:06.that we take as many precautionary measures as possible. So I'm happy

:08:07. > :08:10.to stay here for another day if it means that security will be ensured.

:08:11. > :08:15.It will never be ensured but as close to it as possible, before I

:08:16. > :08:19.make my flight. Will you be out-of-pocket by staying? My father

:08:20. > :08:22.is here and so luckily I do have a person that I can stay with,

:08:23. > :08:26.although easyJet have offered us accommodation to stay in over the

:08:27. > :08:31.next couple of days in the event that flights aren't reinstated.

:08:32. > :08:36.What does it all mean to you? Had you been worried at all about any

:08:37. > :08:40.security issues? So, I read the Foreign Office advice and they were

:08:41. > :08:45.advising against all but essential travel to any region.

:08:46. > :08:50.PROBLEM WITH SOUND Unfortunately, we seem to have

:08:51. > :08:55.lost our communications with Leon. We are hoping to speak to some other

:08:56. > :08:59.holiday-makers who're also stranded in Sharm El-Sheikh a little later. I

:09:00. > :09:05.think we may be able to go back to Leon. We lost you there, sorry, tell

:09:06. > :09:11.us what you were saying about the concerns, urn aware that travel

:09:12. > :09:18.alerts were in place? Yes, so I was worried. When I first came here, I

:09:19. > :09:22.read the advice saying that advice to all none-essential advice was not

:09:23. > :09:26.advised but Sharm El-Sheikh, it's quite secure. I mean, you do go

:09:27. > :09:29.around the streets and see a lot of security checkpoints and you see a

:09:30. > :09:34.lot of security everywhere in Sharm El-Sheikh and so I think the threat

:09:35. > :09:37.itself is isolated towards the airports and I think, as we have

:09:38. > :09:42.been hearing from a lot of people earlier, the security at the airport

:09:43. > :09:45.is not as stringent as it should be. Security within Sharm El-Sheikh

:09:46. > :09:49.itself hasn't been an issue for me, it's getting to and from Sharm

:09:50. > :09:52.El-Sheikh which is the main concern for me and a lot of the

:09:53. > :10:06.holiday-makers I've been speaking to.

:10:07. > :10:10.Thank you very much. Let's bring Lesley Anne Evans, what is the

:10:11. > :10:15.situation for you, you are in Sharm El-Sheikh? We are not due to fly

:10:16. > :10:20.home until Saturday. We have made the decision ourselves today. We

:10:21. > :10:25.were due to fly to Cairo this morning, we have decided that's not

:10:26. > :10:29.such a good idea because the flights are being looked at. We have been

:10:30. > :10:34.speaking with some other British tourists in the same hotel and they

:10:35. > :10:38.have been advised to check out as normal and if our flight is still

:10:39. > :10:42.not going ahead, the Government have said they'll put us in a hotel until

:10:43. > :10:47.the flights start back again. How do you feel about the situation, are

:10:48. > :10:54.you worried? We are worried, yes, but we are glad that the Government

:10:55. > :11:01.are doing something about it. We just hope that in time we'll be able

:11:02. > :11:06.to fly home, on Saturday security we hope will be at its highest. We were

:11:07. > :11:10.talking to another holiday-maker saying security in Sharm El-Sheikh

:11:11. > :11:13.itself in the resort is high but it's quite a different situation at

:11:14. > :11:17.the airport. What is your perspective on security? When we

:11:18. > :11:21.arrived at the airport, security wasn't brilliant. It's a lot

:11:22. > :11:24.different to what we have experienced in other airports

:11:25. > :11:29.travelling before. They haven't got the level of security that we are

:11:30. > :11:35.used to. We are travelling around the resort and have been on a couple

:11:36. > :11:38.of trips and have gone outside. There are security checkpoints and

:11:39. > :11:45.measures in place to check vehicles and things. But the airport itself

:11:46. > :11:49.is very open, it's got a small fence surrounding the airport which means

:11:50. > :11:52.really easy access. So you feel quite safe being in Sharm El-Sheikh

:11:53. > :11:56.itself? The Government says there is no reason to be at all concerned in

:11:57. > :12:03.the resort? Yes, we feel quite safe in the hotel. That's not an issue.

:12:04. > :12:08.It's just more about flying. We were due to fly out this morning to

:12:09. > :12:12.Cairo, we have made the decision not to go because the Government have

:12:13. > :12:17.suggested that only emergency flights leaving Sharm should be

:12:18. > :12:20.taken, not for just tourist trips. And you have said that you will fly

:12:21. > :12:25.out of Cairo, is that right, rather than Sharm El-Sheikh? No, no, it was

:12:26. > :12:30.just going to be a day trip, we were due to come back and then fly out of

:12:31. > :12:35.Sharm on Saturday. Thank you very much Lesley Anne,

:12:36. > :12:38.good luck with getting home on Saturday, as you're planning to.

:12:39. > :12:44.Let's bring you some of your comments. Debra says the plane

:12:45. > :12:47.crashed a few days ago now, if terrorists wanted to blow up another

:12:48. > :12:51.plane they would have done it by now. It's serious but no coincidence

:12:52. > :12:57.the UK are putting the ban on now because of the Sisi visit, the

:12:58. > :13:01.President of Egypt in London today. Another Twitter person says, it

:13:02. > :13:06.seems premature, the investigating authorities haven't come to any

:13:07. > :13:12.conclusions yet. Rick on e-mail says the talk is about Sharm El-Sheikh.

:13:13. > :13:16.What is the advice flying to other Red Sea resorts. We'll speak to an

:13:17. > :13:23.ABTA representative later so we can put that question to her. Nanny

:13:24. > :13:25.state Government says another texter, the British Government

:13:26. > :13:29.inconveniencing everyone while they are in defile of the footage shown

:13:30. > :13:38.with the downing of the aircraft. Thank you very much for joining us

:13:39. > :13:40.today. How much do you know about what your children are doing online?

:13:41. > :13:43.The mother who lost her son after he was groomed over the internet

:13:44. > :13:46.and then murdered joins us to warn parents be more vigilant about

:13:47. > :13:55.We meet a man who has suffered brain damage after he was Tasered twice by

:13:56. > :14:04.police. Work begins to return

:14:05. > :14:07.an estimated 20,000 British tourists from Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt

:14:08. > :14:16.after the UK suspends all flights to Airlines are telling us that they

:14:17. > :14:21.expect that by tomorrow they will be in a position to start flying

:14:22. > :14:27.British visitors back to the UK, so we are spending today with the

:14:28. > :14:30.airlines, Egyptian authorities, putting in place short-term

:14:31. > :14:34.emergency measures that will allow us to screen everything going on to

:14:35. > :14:36.those lanes, double-check those planes, so we are confident that

:14:37. > :14:42.they can fly back safely to the UK. The government's emergency committee

:14:43. > :14:45.Cobra meets again this morning as intelligence reports suggest

:14:46. > :14:57.a bomb may have caused the Russian Ministry of Defence experts have

:14:58. > :15:00.joined a team going to Sharm el Sheikh to look at security.

:15:01. > :15:02.New figures show big differences in the way police and prosecutors

:15:03. > :15:04.deal with allegations of rape across England and Wales.

:15:05. > :15:06.The Inspectorate of Constabulary says the proportion

:15:07. > :15:09.of suspects charged with rape fell in the last year and is as low

:15:10. > :15:13.MI5 has secretly been collecting vast amounts of data

:15:14. > :15:16.about UK phone calls to search for terrorist connections.

:15:17. > :15:20.According to the government's terror watchdog, the 10-year programme has

:15:21. > :15:29.been allowed to happen because of 'vague' laws.

:15:30. > :15:32.This comes as Home Secretary Theresa May introduces a new tougher law

:15:33. > :15:34.that would require UK internet service providers to store every

:15:35. > :15:37.customer's browsing history for a year. The social network giant

:15:38. > :15:40.Facebook has reported a big jump in profits thanks to an increase

:15:41. > :15:45.The social media company said income was up 11% to ?579 million

:15:46. > :15:46.for the period between July and September.

:15:47. > :15:50.It also said there had been a big increase in users from new markets.

:15:51. > :16:00.Sir Elton John says his charitable foundation is to

:16:01. > :16:02.donate ?3 million to improve access to HIV treatments

:16:03. > :16:04.for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Africa.

:16:05. > :16:06.His contribution will be matched by the US government,

:16:07. > :16:09.as part of a joint initiative to focus on vulnerable groups

:16:10. > :16:12.Hugh has all the sport now, and a disappointing day

:16:13. > :16:27.Calamity for English cricketers in the final and deciding test against

:16:28. > :16:32.Pakistan. Four wickets fell in the first half an hour of the final day,

:16:33. > :16:36.including three in the final balls. England have lost the match by 127

:16:37. > :16:41.runs and dropped to number six in the world rankings with the number

:16:42. > :16:47.one side South Africa lying in wait next month. They lose the series 2-0

:16:48. > :16:52.in the UAE. A positive outlook for years a Marini and the Chelsea team.

:16:53. > :17:01.He thanked the club's amazing fans after the 2-1 win over Dean emerged

:17:02. > :17:10.yet. -- pose a Marini. Arsene Wenger lost 5-1 in Germany to buy in many

:17:11. > :17:18.-- to die in Munich. -- chose a new Ennio. Some golf action from China.

:17:19. > :17:23.Rory McIlroy has recovered from food poisoning poisoning. All of that to

:17:24. > :17:27.come at 10am. A mum whose son was groomed online

:17:28. > :17:30.and then murdered has told this programme all parents should be much

:17:31. > :17:33.more aware of the dangers their The warning, from Lorin Lavafe who's

:17:34. > :17:39.son Breck Bednar was killed in 2014, comes as a report suggests kids

:17:40. > :17:42.aren't telling their parents what But first lets take a look at that

:17:43. > :17:47.research commissioned by Almost half the children asked

:17:48. > :17:57.admitted that their parents only know some of what they do online.

:17:58. > :18:02.One in nine said their parents nothing about their online

:18:03. > :18:08.activity. And, a third of young said they find it easier to show

:18:09. > :18:11.their real personality on the internet than with people

:18:12. > :18:14.face-to-face. The report also found that professionals and parents lack

:18:15. > :18:16.the technical expertise to check Our reporter Nicola Beckford has

:18:17. > :18:20.been out to meet some kids and their parents to find out

:18:21. > :18:25.their experiences online. Once there was a person who tried to

:18:26. > :18:31.contact me and they said, I know that you took my dad's money, and I

:18:32. > :18:36.text of them saying, if you text me again, I will call the police, and I

:18:37. > :18:41.went to my mum and dad and showed them the image. It is always on your

:18:42. > :18:43.mind, particularly with the location, particularly casual

:18:44. > :18:47.children can allow people to know where they are, and people often

:18:48. > :18:54.have specific details about your children that you cannot understand

:18:55. > :18:59.how they would have that. BB does not have Facebook. -- Phoebe. Still,

:19:00. > :19:06.the specific information and nature of the way they are fishing, it is

:19:07. > :19:11.very frightening stop I do know that people try and find out details

:19:12. > :19:16.about you. They did not tell us what they do with that but they try and

:19:17. > :19:25.find your name, and address, e-mail address. Telephone number, that kind

:19:26. > :19:30.of thing. I think every parent in the world who has any awareness has

:19:31. > :19:36.to be concerned about those kinds of things. Whilst you don't need to go

:19:37. > :19:40.overboard, the instances of of things happening are extremely

:19:41. > :19:45.rare. Of course, the extremely rare does happen and you need to be

:19:46. > :19:49.cautious. This advert came up and it's did not have the skip in three

:19:50. > :19:55.second thing, you had to watch it, there was a short scene of

:19:56. > :19:59.paranormal activity, and I was really young and did not want to see

:20:00. > :20:05.it, and it was stuck in my brain for a long time. She was really upset.

:20:06. > :20:09.Yes. It takes a little while for them to come and tell you they are

:20:10. > :20:17.upset but she finally came up and told me. It then takes a long time

:20:18. > :20:23.to talk her down and that would not have happened when we were young. My

:20:24. > :20:27.favourite singer released a new song and I typed in the first two letters

:20:28. > :20:32.of it and it came up so I tap on it on my phone, and I accidentally

:20:33. > :20:43.tapped on something underneath it, and it was quite disturbing. It was

:20:44. > :20:51.a picture of... This person... And they were pretty much naked.

:20:52. > :20:55.Let's talk now to Lorin Lafave who's 14 year old son Breck was killed

:20:56. > :20:57.last year by a teenager who groomed him

:20:58. > :21:00.online - and Mum of two Claire Kelly and Mum of three Gillian Parker.

:21:01. > :21:06.Breck was doing online gaming, how much did you know of what he was

:21:07. > :21:10.doing? He was in year nine and had some friends from year for who

:21:11. > :21:13.invited them into his gaming group and I felt comfortable with that

:21:14. > :21:18.because I knew some of the boys on working at school with them, and

:21:19. > :21:22.nice set of young men. He spent more and more time on the Internet, not

:21:23. > :21:27.just gaming, you were socialising, he had three screens with one game,

:21:28. > :21:32.one had texting, another screen had images that would pop up on a site

:21:33. > :21:37.they would use that is similar to Skype. I could see why they would

:21:38. > :21:43.interact socially in this way because it was quite exciting. A lot

:21:44. > :21:47.of the kids you knew because he had known them for years but it became

:21:48. > :21:53.clear that summary else was in the group, how did you become aware? --

:21:54. > :21:59.someone else. I noticed fairly soon that there was a voice that was more

:22:00. > :22:04.mature, and when I asked Breck, he said he was running the server, and

:22:05. > :22:09.when I ask what he looked like, he showed me a picture of a very

:22:10. > :22:13.attractive boy with a tie. It may me wonder why somebody would have that

:22:14. > :22:17.as a gaming icon because he looked too dressed up and too pretty. I

:22:18. > :22:22.asked Breck and he said it was for a laugh. As time went on, I found out

:22:23. > :22:27.it was not his picture and when pressing Breck to finance who this

:22:28. > :22:30.person was, we could never be shown his picture because he did not want

:22:31. > :22:35.to be seen which is a huge time something was not right. Breck was

:22:36. > :22:41.open with you about what he was doing, and this person was as well,

:22:42. > :22:47.wasn't he? You spoke to him? Breck spoke to me about this person, he

:22:48. > :22:51.was very open, and I think I knew a lot more than any other parents and

:22:52. > :22:55.that is why I became aware because there were very tall tales of him

:22:56. > :23:00.offering Breck opportunities to be a Microsoft apprentice, getting him

:23:01. > :23:05.jobs, FBI careers, major opportunities that did not seem

:23:06. > :23:08.possible, but to Breck, Agassi was interested in commuting, it was

:23:09. > :23:17.something he wanted to be involved with. Alarm bells rang, how did you

:23:18. > :23:22.handle your concerns? I spoke to Breck more and more, I spoke to

:23:23. > :23:30.teachers at school, nobody passed on any of the agencies that I know

:23:31. > :23:35.about now. Barndado's, NSPCC, there were so many I did not know about,

:23:36. > :23:39.so I kept talking to people and they said he will grow out of it, but I

:23:40. > :23:44.felt that Breck was being groomed. His ideology and personality was

:23:45. > :23:49.being changed, and he was pulling away from his usual social scene, he

:23:50. > :23:53.wanted to pull away from the air cadets, family activities. I thought

:23:54. > :24:00.it was a teenage phase but part of it I could feel was this person

:24:01. > :24:02.pulling Breck away from me. You could see this happening, did you

:24:03. > :24:08.feel you could do anything to stop it? I got so frustrated that I

:24:09. > :24:12.eventually called the police because I knew this person was not who he

:24:13. > :24:16.said he was and I felt there was a huge danger, and I spent 30 minutes

:24:17. > :24:22.on the phone explaining my concerns to the police, that I felt Breck was

:24:23. > :24:26.being groomed. The predator was even telling me what to do and how to

:24:27. > :24:32.parent my son. The evening I phoned the police, I took away Breck's

:24:33. > :24:37.technology for a week. I had long conversations about doing it because

:24:38. > :24:41.I love him. He had a -- he was a clever boy and had a lot of friends

:24:42. > :24:47.at school and I felt taking away the technology would get him back on

:24:48. > :24:52.track. I met some other parents. This person would not show his face,

:24:53. > :24:56.why, what is the reason? He was offering Breck all these career

:24:57. > :25:03.opportunities and he was just dangling a carrot in front of my

:25:04. > :25:07.son. I forbade Breck from gaming, speaking or socialising with this

:25:08. > :25:12.predator. But he ended up going to his house and being murdered?

:25:13. > :25:19.Unfortunately, at the point I forbade Breck, everything went

:25:20. > :25:23.underground. He then knew that he was known by the parents and to be

:25:24. > :25:28.unsafe and unsavoury. He was gifting the boys an 18-year-old game through

:25:29. > :25:33.the computer, through the Internet, each week, which parents could not

:25:34. > :25:37.be aware of because it was arriving over the Internet was PZ Breck a

:25:38. > :25:44.secret phone and made arrangements and offered to pay for him to go to

:25:45. > :25:48.his flat and give him a career in a software company which did not

:25:49. > :25:52.exist. He said he was sick. As clever as Breck was, he was still

:25:53. > :25:57.only 14 years old and he believed it. He wanted to make something of

:25:58. > :26:06.himself and not as was the opportunity of a lifetime. Groomers

:26:07. > :26:09.will do anything to manipulate and control children to get what they

:26:10. > :26:18.want, and ultimately what they want is not good. Any parent listening

:26:19. > :26:20.will be listening and thinking -- any parent listening will be

:26:21. > :26:24.thinking that you did everything right, there was open to medication

:26:25. > :26:28.with Breck, you took action and went to the police, is there anything you

:26:29. > :26:32.feel you could have done differently? A million things go

:26:33. > :26:38.through my head about how I could have changed my life but what I

:26:39. > :26:43.learnt is that I definitely should have contacted CEOP and some of the

:26:44. > :26:47.other agencies because they are trained on grooming and understood

:26:48. > :26:52.the danger signs that the police did not believe Breck was being groomed

:26:53. > :27:00.even though he was. A charity that is involved in exportation such as

:27:01. > :27:03.Barnardos. Predators can use anything to get through to

:27:04. > :27:08.children, whether it is a dance career, a football team, anything. I

:27:09. > :27:15.would definitely use CEOP, Barnardos, and any other charity

:27:16. > :27:18.that offers advice. I went to the highest in the land by going to the

:27:19. > :27:24.police but do not stop at one source. Speak to the school, other

:27:25. > :27:31.parents who they game with. I did try to get through to other parents

:27:32. > :27:35.but if this can happen to Breck, who had friends, he did not realise he

:27:36. > :27:42.was being groomed, and he had no idea that anything was untoward, he

:27:43. > :27:45.just felt like he was learning. He was learning to encrypt, take apart

:27:46. > :27:49.his computer and put it back together, make it more speedy and

:27:50. > :27:53.efficient, he had no idea that when there was evil behind this false

:27:54. > :27:57.friendship. When you talk about going to CEOP, what could they have

:27:58. > :28:03.done that would have been different? Everything you have done is what you

:28:04. > :28:09.did. Breck went on a safety course for the inter-0, didn't he? --

:28:10. > :28:14.Internet. I asked how the assembly was and he said, yes, fine, mum,

:28:15. > :28:21.boring. The work of the foundation is to try and reach children that is

:28:22. > :28:28.not sound like a parent or teacher nagging them. I want to use Breck

:28:29. > :28:33.Astory to get through to other young children that this could happen to

:28:34. > :28:37.anyone. -- Breck's. We live in a nice neighbourhood, it can happen to

:28:38. > :28:43.anyone. Tell us more about the foundation. We set it up out of the

:28:44. > :28:47.tragedy because something good had to come out of it. It is painful to

:28:48. > :28:53.work with but gives me some sort of relief that I am trying to save

:28:54. > :28:58.others. I am very passionate about it. Every parent I talked to is

:28:59. > :29:04.worried about it. We can't keep up technologically without children

:29:05. > :29:09.nowadays because they are so savvy, and Breck had all sorts of ways of

:29:10. > :29:13.re-routing his signal, he was really savvy on the computer, but we also

:29:14. > :29:18.get busy as parents and don't have time to understand it. I tried to

:29:19. > :29:25.talk to my 14-year-old triplets about it but even then I am worried.

:29:26. > :29:30.Two out of three of the triplets said their parents only know some of

:29:31. > :29:34.what they do online. They admitted that only some of what they do

:29:35. > :29:38.online. As parents, we have a huge job to try and keep our children

:29:39. > :29:43.safe and we have to continue to talk to them, but don't stop at one

:29:44. > :29:48.source. Speak to the school, speak to as many agencies, go online, I

:29:49. > :29:54.did not use those resources as I could have and that is a huge regret

:29:55. > :29:59.that I have. Let's bring in Clare Kelly, the mother of a 15-year-old,

:30:00. > :30:07.and Gillian, who has three children. Thank you for joining us. You have

:30:08. > :30:14.been listening to Lauren. Tell us your thoughts on how you view what

:30:15. > :30:21.your kids are up to online. Claire? With Beth and 15, she pretty much

:30:22. > :30:29.pleases herself. Charlie has more input. Charlie, we have more input.

:30:30. > :30:32.What I do for work, we go into schools and teach about sexual

:30:33. > :30:35.relationships, and we are talking about appropriate images and how

:30:36. > :30:40.they can be shared in primary school. Where the images go, what

:30:41. > :30:44.can happen to them, is it appropriate for people to show you

:30:45. > :30:49.images? Basically, Internet safety in line with what primary schools

:30:50. > :30:52.are doing. Less so at comprehensive schools, we are finding more and

:30:53. > :30:59.more young people are disclosing to us issues of sexting which we have

:31:00. > :31:01.not seen over the last few years which is becoming more evident as an

:31:02. > :31:09.issue. Gillian, what is your perspective on

:31:10. > :31:12.how to handle kids online and what is potentially out there? I don't

:31:13. > :31:19.think the problem is just about protecting them online. I think this

:31:20. > :31:24.problem of children being targeted has always existed. Unfortunately,

:31:25. > :31:34.the Internet adds another further dimension. Unfortunately, for the

:31:35. > :31:39.lady whose son died, she tried everything and she still couldn't

:31:40. > :31:47.prevent the tragedy that ended his life. I think it's about being

:31:48. > :31:51.achoir of all the dangers but not getting them out of proportion. I

:31:52. > :31:55.think people are blaming the Internet for things that are

:31:56. > :32:01.happening when it's perhaps more about the people behind it, the

:32:02. > :32:04.actors, the behaviour, they'll find a way, unfortunately. It's difficult

:32:05. > :32:08.isn't it for parents, obviously wanting to trust their kids, wanting

:32:09. > :32:12.to give them freedom, wanting to let them do what everyone else is up to

:32:13. > :32:16.but protecting them. A texter said this is Tim, saying I'm worried

:32:17. > :32:20.about my 12-year-old, I've always trusted her because that's important

:32:21. > :32:26.in a family but lately she's become withdrawn. I don't want to snoop in

:32:27. > :32:29.her browsing history but the current climate makes me think I must. What

:32:30. > :32:38.do you think about how much parents should monitor and look whether the

:32:39. > :32:46.kids are aware of it or not? I wouldn't. I personally don't monitor

:32:47. > :32:50.my daughter online. We have had a conversation about privacy and we

:32:51. > :32:58.have had conversations that started a long time ago about what happens

:32:59. > :33:06.on the Internet and questioning, why would people get in touch with me,

:33:07. > :33:12.and to be aware of, that stranger danger really. Also to be aware of

:33:13. > :33:15.how images are misused and how things that they see on the Internet

:33:16. > :33:23.aren't always true, it's a constructed image.

:33:24. > :33:30.So I perhaps naively trust my daughter and we have a conversation.

:33:31. > :33:35.In fact we had a conversation again last night following my chat with

:33:36. > :33:42.your researcher about Facebook settings and we went back on to my

:33:43. > :33:45.daughter's Facebook settings and changed them and actually changed

:33:46. > :33:55.the settings on my Facebook account as well. So I think one of the

:33:56. > :34:00.issues is about how much information we give to Internet providers and

:34:01. > :34:04.services like Facebook or Twitter. We give away a lot of information

:34:05. > :34:13.that allows people to build a picture of us and makes us

:34:14. > :34:21.vulnerable and it's about making sure that we consider very carefully

:34:22. > :34:27.before we put anything on a digital media format. Claire, what are your

:34:28. > :34:32.thoughts? I guess everyone's feeling their way through it and learning as

:34:33. > :34:39.they go? Yes, my daughter doesn't have her picture on Facebook. She is

:34:40. > :34:45.very careful what she puts on. She's only friends with people that she

:34:46. > :34:50.knows. She has a quite mature attitude towards the Internet in

:34:51. > :34:56.that she did a piece for the WMCA about how young people can use the

:34:57. > :35:01.Internet to their advantage -- YMCA. I'm not naive enough to think that's

:35:02. > :35:04.OK. We have talked a lot about the Internet, but she's very Internet

:35:05. > :35:09.savvy that it can be a good vehicle and she would argue that young

:35:10. > :35:14.people should be able to use the Internet as they wish, but we do

:35:15. > :35:17.have settings in place, we do talk about the Internet, she doesn't

:35:18. > :35:21.share personal information, she's very aware. Going back to what was

:35:22. > :35:27.said about e safety in school, she did come home and say, another one

:35:28. > :35:31.of those e safety lectures and I don't think the message is getting

:35:32. > :35:37.across to young people how important it is. What are your thoughts,

:35:38. > :35:41.Lauren? I think the difficulty is when we have friends on Facebook,

:35:42. > :35:44.friends of friends or other friends that are bought into gaming groups

:35:45. > :35:48.is where the danger comes because I consider my friends safe and Brett

:35:49. > :35:52.considered all of his school friends safe but somewhere along the line

:35:53. > :35:56.they had invited this predator right into their own group, into our own

:35:57. > :36:00.homes. We did create the tag line, we have it on our wrist bands, play

:36:01. > :36:06.virtual, live real, we are not saying get off the Internet, that's

:36:07. > :36:10.not the evil bit, you know, we are saying enjoy, socialise, learn, have

:36:11. > :36:14.a good time on the net but keep it safe, so play virtual but stay alive

:36:15. > :36:21.by living real. So maybe be much more circumspect

:36:22. > :36:25.about who your kids' followers are because they all want as many as

:36:26. > :36:30.possible? They all want to be popular and be loved but it's very

:36:31. > :36:33.difficult these days, girls especial hi want to post pictures and pose

:36:34. > :36:37.and it's happening with my children's friends, they are posing

:36:38. > :36:40.and showing too much cleavage at a young age, it's trying to be too

:36:41. > :36:43.popular too soon for the wrong reasons. What is the best way for a

:36:44. > :36:48.parent to get that message through a child? You said often it's better

:36:49. > :36:51.for them to hear it from someone else, but obviously the parents want

:36:52. > :36:55.to do whatever they can? Make sure you are speaking to your children. I

:36:56. > :37:00.think speak to them and speak to them again, you know, tell them why

:37:01. > :37:05.you care and use stories of real life people that lost their lives or

:37:06. > :37:11.have been injured or bullied online because it can really hurt your

:37:12. > :37:14.self-confidence and self-esteem even by being bully and there were

:37:15. > :37:18.several boys being bullied in this gaming group as well if they didn't

:37:19. > :37:21.agree with this predator's point of view. It's very harming in the long

:37:22. > :37:26.run. We need to look after each other. A person being groomed may

:37:27. > :37:31.not realise they are being groomed, so someone else needs to report that

:37:32. > :37:34.and the person being bullied may be too embarrassed to put their hand

:37:35. > :37:39.up, they may be afraid they'll get bullied more, so we need others to

:37:40. > :37:46.look after each other, make reports and find out if there's more to know

:37:47. > :37:48.behind the Internet scene. Also one thing, just seeing Facebook profits

:37:49. > :37:53.today, if the Government doesn't have enough money to put funding in,

:37:54. > :37:57.can we ask social media, you know, they are making money, I think it's

:37:58. > :38:00.a social responsibility to put money into funding and safety to help to

:38:01. > :38:04.keep our children safe online because, no matter what we do, as

:38:05. > :38:08.Gillian said, there'll always be evil out there and the Internet is a

:38:09. > :38:14.just another method to get through to our children. Thank you very much

:38:15. > :38:19.for coming in and talking to us and Claire and Gillian as well. Thank

:38:20. > :38:21.you very much. We'll bring you some more comments later.

:38:22. > :38:24.Coming up; we'll hear why government cuts to social housing rents may not

:38:25. > :38:34.The government is working with airlines to bring thousands

:38:35. > :38:37.of Britons home from the Egyptian resort Sharm el-Sheikh after it

:38:38. > :38:43.All flights were grounded after US and UK intelligence suggested

:38:44. > :38:46.a bomb may have caused a Russian jet from Sharm to crash

:38:47. > :38:50.UK Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said security would be tightened

:38:51. > :38:53.and it is hoped flights will resume on Friday.

:38:54. > :38:56.The UK government's emergency committee Cobra is to meet later.

:38:57. > :39:01.Anon text - Hearing plenty of reports about UK

:39:02. > :39:06.I am due to fly out of Hurghada Egypt and back to the UK tomorrow

:39:07. > :39:09.and have heard nothing about this airport regarding increased

:39:10. > :39:14.Considering it is not that far from Sharm I can't understand why!

:39:15. > :39:19.Jake on text - I fly for a living and I'd

:39:20. > :39:22.like to stress to the British public that British airlines take all

:39:23. > :39:28.Air travel is safe and believe me the British

:39:29. > :39:31.government demand the highest training for all airline personnel.

:39:32. > :39:39.I do hope this disruption will be kept to a minimum but I do have

:39:40. > :39:42.Jacqui on email - I think the government has responded perfectly.

:39:43. > :39:45.Those who think it's an over reaction wouldn't say that

:39:46. > :39:49.Better to be inconvenienced than suffer an attack.

:39:50. > :39:52.Daniel on text - I have recently come back

:39:53. > :39:55.from sharm and the security at the airport is absolutely horrendous!

:39:56. > :39:58.when we went through security the guy that scans your bags was

:39:59. > :40:08.the pat down searches they do - well, they just pat your chest then

:40:09. > :40:11.let you through - its absolutely shocking. Nagwa on email - I don't

:40:12. > :40:14.understand why flights from the UK to Sharm have also been halted.

:40:15. > :40:40.So why not let these people carry on with their holiday plans?

:40:41. > :40:49.What is the advice? The advice hasn't changed. It's very important

:40:50. > :40:52.that if you are out there in resort, stay in resort, things will be

:40:53. > :40:55.functioning as normal and keep in contact with your travel provider.

:40:56. > :41:12.What about if you are here and have a trip planned? Contact your travel

:41:13. > :41:16.provider. Programmes have been cancelled for the next seven days,

:41:17. > :41:20.so if you haven't had contact from your travel agent, contact them.

:41:21. > :41:25.It's an evolving situation beyond that so keep an eye on what is going

:41:26. > :41:27.on. Should any holiday-maker be out-of-pocket because obviously this

:41:28. > :41:33.is something that's out of their hands? No. In a nutshell, they

:41:34. > :41:36.shouldn't be. Effectively, if you are in resort at the moment, you

:41:37. > :41:41.will be on holiday so you are continuing that as normal and the

:41:42. > :41:46.operators will arrange for you to be brought back safely or continue your

:41:47. > :41:51.holiday as planned. The key thing in the next 24-48-hours is to see what

:41:52. > :41:55.is happening in terms of the return flight arrangements actually from

:41:56. > :41:59.Sharm El-Sheikh Airport itself. And Sharm is a very popular destination

:42:00. > :42:03.for British tourists, a rare destination in Egypt to continue to

:42:04. > :42:07.thrive in the way that it has, I mean obviously it's difficult to

:42:08. > :42:11.know the impact of this, but this will be causing concern for anybody

:42:12. > :42:23.who is potentially thinking about going there? Sharm is very popular.

:42:24. > :42:26.Other parts of Egypt we know there are travel warnings in place for

:42:27. > :42:30.some other parts of Egypt at the moment. I think in terms of

:42:31. > :42:34.specifically Sharm itself, the key thing is to follow the advice, but

:42:35. > :42:38.actually the resort itself is functioning as normal and there's

:42:39. > :42:42.been no impact. We have heard a lot from holiday-makers there today

:42:43. > :42:50.who're stranded, saying that the security in Sharm is very visible

:42:51. > :42:54.and has been? Yes. The Egyptian authorities put in security measures

:42:55. > :42:58.after the Arab Spring so a map of Egypt shows it's on a peninsula in a

:42:59. > :43:00.bubble so from a security perspective, the Foreign Office if

:43:01. > :43:04.it had concerns, they would change their advice but haven't done so

:43:05. > :43:10.which is obviously a signal that it's continuing as normal. How

:43:11. > :43:14.unusual is a situation like this? It's unusual to see a situation

:43:15. > :43:17.where the airport alone is isolated in terms of the Foreign Office

:43:18. > :43:21.changing its advice. That is certainly unusual. You wouldn't

:43:22. > :43:24.typically see a particular region for example if the Foreign Office

:43:25. > :43:28.were to change its travel advice now, that in itself is unusual but

:43:29. > :43:31.just to focus specifically on the airports which clearly the Foreign

:43:32. > :43:35.Office has got concerns about security measures at the airport

:43:36. > :43:39.itself and is on the ground now, working with the authorities at the

:43:40. > :43:45.airport, working with the carriers as well to ensure that security

:43:46. > :43:50.situations in the airport itself is improving. We did have Rick on

:43:51. > :43:55.e-mail asking all the talk is about Sharm El-Sheikh, what is the advice

:43:56. > :44:03.for people flying to other Egyptian Red Sea resorts, it's all available

:44:04. > :44:09.online? Yes, Hurghada is if other resort that hasn't been impacted on

:44:10. > :44:13.this, this is specifically relating to Sharm El-Sheikh. It's a popular

:44:14. > :44:16.destination. That is continuing as normal.

:44:17. > :44:21.Unless there is any different guidance coming out on this, people

:44:22. > :44:27.in resorts like Hurghada which is very close shouldn't worry? Quite,

:44:28. > :44:32.exactly. Thank you very much. Victoria Bacon, thank you. Let's

:44:33. > :44:37.catch up with the latest weather. Sarah is here with the details for

:44:38. > :44:41.us. Love fireworks night! A good clear night for them? Not

:44:42. > :44:50.many of us seeing a clear night. We are going to see a lot of cloud

:44:51. > :44:54.around and it will be a mild night. A night for packing the wellies and

:44:55. > :44:57.wet weather gear. We have rain around, certainly this evening, and

:44:58. > :45:02.fireworks displays over the next few days, Friday is set to be a better

:45:03. > :45:05.evening so drying up through Friday. A bit of rain on Saturday and

:45:06. > :45:22.staying windy, so a bit mixed. Your best bet of patching some clear

:45:23. > :45:27.skies is in Wales, Northern Ireland. -- patching. With all the smoke in

:45:28. > :45:33.the air, there could be some mist and fog. It has been so misty in

:45:34. > :45:44.London lately. Absolutely, Misty and murky. It is looking a bit mixed.

:45:45. > :45:48.Quite autumnal. Across the country over the next few days, things are

:45:49. > :46:04.unsettled. Keeping a mild theme to the weather but there will be rain

:46:05. > :46:06.moving across the country. Things turning windy and autumnal leaves

:46:07. > :46:09.being blown off the trees. This is the weather front on the satellite

:46:10. > :46:11.picked. The cloud is heading toward the UK. The first in a series of

:46:12. > :46:14.weather fronts over the next few days. Rain across Northern Ireland,

:46:15. > :46:16.Wales and the South West of England, moving eastwards across the rest of

:46:17. > :46:21.the country. The north-east of Scotland gets away with dry

:46:22. > :46:27.weather. By 3pm, most of the rain clears away from the Isles of Scilly

:46:28. > :46:34.and Cornwall. Brightening up here. Up towards Gloucestershire, Somerset

:46:35. > :46:40.and Wales, low cloud, rainy and breezy. For Northern Ireland, things

:46:41. > :46:45.will dry up. In Scotland, the rain pals in, heavy at times on the

:46:46. > :46:49.hills. Fairly lottery. The North East of Scotland gets away with dry

:46:50. > :46:54.weather. Spells of heavy rain from northern England, right down towards

:46:55. > :47:06.the Midlands. East Anglia stays dry. In the South, we could have

:47:07. > :47:11.gale force gusts with that rain. It does look quite damp for many

:47:12. > :47:16.places. It will clear up later on in the night. A spell of quieter

:47:17. > :47:23.weather and as we head through tonight and through the early hours

:47:24. > :47:30.of Friday, another weather front. A repeat performance of today, a band

:47:31. > :47:34.of rain working west to east. Look at the temperatures, 18 or possibly

:47:35. > :47:43.19 degrees in the afternoon. The weather front moved out the way and

:47:44. > :47:49.Friday evening looks drier. Uncertainty about the detail on

:47:50. > :48:00.Saturday but we will see where it and windy weather moving across the

:48:01. > :48:04.country moving quickly. Once that area of low pressure gets out the

:48:05. > :48:08.way, that they will end on a quiet note. Through Remembrance Sunday, a

:48:09. > :48:16.local system brings weather front into the Atlantic. It could start

:48:17. > :48:22.dry and bright for central and eastern areas but in the West, rain

:48:23. > :48:28.sweeps in. It is above average for the time of year, up to 16 degrees

:48:29. > :48:33.or so on Sunday. Remembrance Sunday, there will be rain moving eastwards

:48:34. > :48:35.through the day. It will stay mild but it will be breezy as well. That

:48:36. > :48:40.is how it is looking. Hello, it's Thursday,

:48:41. > :48:42.it's ten o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the

:48:43. > :48:45.programme if you've just joined us. With thousands of tourists stranded

:48:46. > :48:50.in Sharm el Sheikh, we'll get the latest - and we''ll be live

:48:51. > :48:57.in Downing Street where ministers are holding emergency talks on the

:48:58. > :49:06.security situation affecting I'm still waiting to hear back but I

:49:07. > :49:11.received a message saying there is no new information or no new news.

:49:12. > :49:12.As to when the flights will go ahead again.

:49:13. > :49:15.A woman whose son was murdered by an online predator tells other

:49:16. > :49:20.parents to do all they can to keep their children safe.

:49:21. > :49:26.I went to the highest in the land by going to the police but do not stop

:49:27. > :49:30.at one source, speak to the school, speak to other parents that they

:49:31. > :49:34.gain weight, I did try but it is difficult.

:49:35. > :49:36.You can see the full interview on our programme page

:49:37. > :49:39.And a man who suffered a heart attack and brain damage

:49:40. > :49:43.after he was tasered TWICE by police tells us about his battle to win

:49:44. > :50:00.Work begins to return an estimated thousands of British tourists

:50:01. > :50:05.from Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt after the UK suspends all flights to

:50:06. > :50:08.and from the resort. The government emergency committee Cobra meets

:50:09. > :50:10.again this morning - as intelligence reports suggest

:50:11. > :50:13.a bomb may have brought down the Russian passenger jet in Sinai.

:50:14. > :50:18.We had British aircraft on the ground about to fly back to the UK

:50:19. > :50:21.and we had to take an immediate decision about what was in the best

:50:22. > :50:24.interests of the people aboard, what was going to ensure their safety and

:50:25. > :50:33.security. Ministry of Defence experts have

:50:34. > :50:36.joined a UK team that's gone to There are big differences in how

:50:37. > :50:39.police and prosecutors deal with allegations of rape across England

:50:40. > :50:49.and Wales - new figures show. The Inspectorate of Constabulary

:50:50. > :50:52.says the proportion of suspects charged with rape fell

:50:53. > :51:11.in the last year and is as low Research by Barnardos say for

:51:12. > :51:18.parents do not know what their children get up to online. As

:51:19. > :51:21.parents, we have a huge job to try and keep our children safe and we

:51:22. > :51:26.have to continue to talk to them, but do not stop at one source, been

:51:27. > :51:30.to the school, speak to as many agencies, go online.

:51:31. > :51:32.It's emerged that MI5 has been secretly collecting vast amounts

:51:33. > :51:35.of data about UK phone calls, to search for terrorist

:51:36. > :51:38.The BBC understands that the spy programme has been allowed

:51:39. > :51:42.The social network giant Facebook has reported a big jump

:51:43. > :51:50.in profits thanks to an increase in advertising sales.

:51:51. > :52:01.It also said there had been a big increase in users from new markets.

:52:02. > :52:04.England's morning started badly and got steadily worse.

:52:05. > :52:07.Samit Patels wicket was the fourth to go down before lunch.

:52:08. > :52:09.Captain Alastair Cook was the only batsmen to offer any real

:52:10. > :52:31.resistance but when he was stumped on 63, any faint hope was gone.

:52:32. > :52:33.Pakistan winning by 127 runs to take the series 2-nil.

:52:34. > :52:35.So whilst England struggled in the UAE,

:52:36. > :52:37.Kevin Pietersen scored a fantastic 115 not-out for the Sunfoil Dolphins

:52:38. > :52:42.He hit a total of TEN sixes as his side went

:52:43. > :52:45.on to win the match against the Highveld Lions by a single run.

:52:46. > :52:47.This will have pleased KP too as a big Chelsea fan.

:52:48. > :52:50.The pressure has eased slightly on Jose Mourinho, that's after they

:52:51. > :52:53.beat Dynamo Kiev 2-1 at Stamford Bridge to go second in their

:52:54. > :52:57.were fortunate with their first goal, Willian's cross

:52:58. > :53:00.turned into his own net by Dynamo defender Aleksander Dragovic.

:53:01. > :53:04.The same player though made amends in the second half, a nervy Chelsea

:53:05. > :53:10.defence allowed Dragovic to score at the right end this time.

:53:11. > :53:13.But a little bit of Willian magic calmed the home

:53:14. > :53:17.Chelsea's first win since the middle of last month and support

:53:18. > :53:33.This is my moment. It was amazing. We are proud of our fans, I do not

:53:34. > :53:35.have another way to thank them than to give everything I have which I

:53:36. > :53:39.will do always. Jose Mourinho WILL turn

:53:40. > :53:41.around Chelsea's fortunes according Jorge Mendes, who also represents

:53:42. > :53:44.Cristiano Ronaldo, has told the BBC there is "nobody better" to solve

:53:45. > :53:55.the club's current problems. He does not need to prove anything.

:53:56. > :53:59.He is special, he's the best, so I think even the reaction from the

:54:00. > :54:05.supporters, they can tell you everything. You will not find anyone

:54:06. > :54:13.to solve this problem and he was so weird for sure. -- solve it.

:54:14. > :54:17.So a good night for Chelsea at last but one to forget for Arsenal.

:54:18. > :54:18.They equalled their worst defeat in European football

:54:19. > :54:22.Arsene Wenger's side are now bottom of Group F.

:54:23. > :54:25.They must win their next two matches AND hope other results go

:54:26. > :54:28.their way if they're to stand a chance of qualifying

:54:29. > :54:32.went behind after just ten minutes in the Allianz Arena thanks to

:54:33. > :54:36.By the time the Gunners decided to pose any threat they were four-nil

:54:37. > :54:38.down - Olivier Giroud with the consolation goal.

:54:39. > :54:40.But the five-time European champions weren't done yet -

:54:41. > :54:42.in the 89th minute. Thomas Muller completed the thrashing with

:54:43. > :54:46.Finally Rory McIlroy has been suffering from a bout of food

:54:47. > :54:51.Believe it or not he took a bad turn after eating a club

:54:52. > :54:55.But he made it to the tee for the opening round of the

:54:56. > :54:59.McIlroy, the world number three, finished the day 4-under par

:55:00. > :55:12.Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to our programme

:55:13. > :55:15.if you've just joined us, we're on BBC2 and the BBC News

:55:16. > :55:18.We're keeping you across all the developments

:55:19. > :55:20.following the government's decision to suspend all flights between

:55:21. > :55:25.The Prime Minister will chair another emergency meeting later

:55:26. > :55:28.we're expecting the Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin

:55:29. > :55:31.We'll bring that to you when it happens.

:55:32. > :55:44.Steve on e-mail has been saying that he was in Sharm el-Sheikh four

:55:45. > :55:48.months ago and when going through airport security, I forgot to take

:55:49. > :55:54.water out of my luggage but going through screening, it was not

:55:55. > :55:59.detected, how poor, screening needs to be improved. Mark says security

:56:00. > :56:03.needs tightening, we travel to the area frequently, and the resort is

:56:04. > :56:06.safe, I have no hesitation and would fly back as soon as I can and would

:56:07. > :56:09.not be deterred by the events of this tragic incident.

:56:10. > :56:27.Texts are charged at the standard network rate.

:56:28. > :56:32.of British tourists are stranded in Egypt with no news of how they'll

:56:33. > :56:34.get home - after the UK government halted all flights

:56:35. > :56:38.There are about 20,000 British nationals in Sharm - about half

:56:39. > :56:46.The British government has said there's a significant possibility

:56:47. > :56:48.that the group known as Islamic State brought down

:56:49. > :56:51.a Russian airliner on Saturday, killing all 224 people on board.

:56:52. > :56:53.It's understood the Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin will be

:56:54. > :56:56.making a Commons statement on the security situation at Sharm

:56:57. > :57:07.The Prime Minister is also expected to chair another meeting of Cobra.

:57:08. > :57:10.Our Correspondent Mark Lowen gave us this update from Sharm el Sheikh.

:57:11. > :57:18.I got here this morning and there is no sign of British consulate staff.

:57:19. > :57:20.The British aviation security staff, presumably working behind the

:57:21. > :57:25.scenes, but there is no sign of them. I am in terminal one where the

:57:26. > :57:29.easyJet flight to the UK should be departing. I spoke to one chap who

:57:30. > :57:35.should be flying to Manchester on the easyJet flight that he said the

:57:36. > :57:38.only information he got was from the easyJet website which said the

:57:39. > :57:44.flight would not be flying. There are also flights going from the

:57:45. > :57:49.other terminal which should go to Manchester, two leads, to London as

:57:50. > :57:53.well, on charter airlines. They have been grounded as well. This morning,

:57:54. > :58:01.on the departure boards, flights are coming from Russia, Ukraine, Jordan

:58:02. > :58:08.as well, but no UK flights. It is thought that 20,000 British tourists

:58:09. > :58:11.are here. This is the main destination for Rajesh tourists

:58:12. > :58:17.coming to easyJet and it is pretty embarrassing for Egyptian

:58:18. > :58:23.authorities. Written feels the need to send a security team here to vet

:58:24. > :58:28.security procedures rather than trusting local authorities. -- Great

:58:29. > :58:34.Britain. We are hearing that Patrick MacLachlan's statement on the

:58:35. > :58:36.situation is now going to be at 12:30pm so there will be cabbage of

:58:37. > :58:45.that later. -- coverage. was confused.

:58:46. > :58:56.el-Sheik, said the situation there I got a message from easyJet saying

:58:57. > :59:00.all flights were suspended and is I am waiting to hear back from them

:59:01. > :59:04.but I received a message saying there is no new information, no new

:59:05. > :59:08.news as to whether the flights will go ahead again so we're pretty much

:59:09. > :59:14.just waiting. Are you happy that you are getting as much information as

:59:15. > :59:20.you can? There is quite a disparity in the information we are getting

:59:21. > :59:24.between Egyptian sources and British sources. The Foreign Office have

:59:25. > :59:28.told us that there is a threat and that is why they suspended flights

:59:29. > :59:34.but Egyptian sources are saying it is mostly propaganda and even at the

:59:35. > :59:38.Hotel staff have said there are coaches to pick it up and take as

:59:39. > :59:41.their because the flight is about to leave so everybody is confused. I am

:59:42. > :59:42.happy with the information we receive from the Foreign Office, it

:59:43. > :59:51.is conclusive. Richard Lister is at Stansted

:59:52. > :59:55.Airport for us this morning and our assistant Political Editor Norman

:59:56. > :00:00.Smith is live in Downing Street. Richard, tell us what the situation

:00:01. > :00:03.is there? It's pretty calm, Joanna, it seems

:00:04. > :00:07.like the travel advice has got through to people. I spoke to people

:00:08. > :00:12.at the easyJet check-in, they just had one flight this morning due to

:00:13. > :00:16.go at 9. 40 to Sharm El-Sheikh, cancelled of course. They said not

:00:17. > :00:21.many people tried to check in and it was a very quiet morning so clearly

:00:22. > :00:25.the advice that went out last night and this morning have had an impact

:00:26. > :00:29.and people have stayed away from the airport. Everyone's in a holding

:00:30. > :00:33.pattern really, nobody quite knows how and when they'll be able to get

:00:34. > :00:37.out to Sharm El-Sheikh or back from Sharm El-Sheikh. We are hearing

:00:38. > :00:41.encouraging noises that perhaps from tomorrow things might get moving

:00:42. > :00:46.again, but people are still waiting for advice from their travel company

:00:47. > :00:52.and that is the advice really, just check in if you have arrangements

:00:53. > :00:58.with your travel company, check in, don't come to the airport, find out

:00:59. > :01:03.what is likely to happen. ABTA, the Association of British Travel Agents

:01:04. > :01:07.says if you have plans beyond the next 48-hours, just hang on because

:01:08. > :01:11.probably your company won't know exactly what to recommend so

:01:12. > :01:15.everybody is waiting for clearer instructions about what to do next.

:01:16. > :01:19.The situation here is calm and if that is any guide, we can probably

:01:20. > :01:23.hope 2 t situation's been more or less the same at other airports.

:01:24. > :01:32.Let's go to Norman at Downing Street. An extraordinary

:01:33. > :01:34.announcement by the Government and I guess it's complicated

:01:35. > :01:39.diplomatically in that the Egyptian President is in London at the

:01:40. > :01:43.moment? The Egyptian President will be here to see Mr Cameron at lunch

:01:44. > :01:46.time and yes, it's profoundly awkward, but ahead of that, the

:01:47. > :01:50.Prime Minister's going to have to chair an emergency meeting of COBRA

:01:51. > :01:53.which they'll be trying to put together, some sort of plan, some

:01:54. > :01:58.sort of thinking and time scale, to get the British tourists home. I

:01:59. > :02:02.think that could be quite a difficult ask because Philip Hammond

:02:03. > :02:06.this morning suggested that he hoped that process could begin tomorrow,

:02:07. > :02:11.but I note he also said that the British Government would do whatever

:02:12. > :02:14.it takes regardless of how long, regardless of how inconvenient,

:02:15. > :02:18.regardless of the sort of delays that might be involved which suggest

:02:19. > :02:23.to me that getting people home actually that could be quite a

:02:24. > :02:26.protracted process. On top of that, he also suggested that other

:02:27. > :02:31.countries might follow Britain's example. Now, if other countries do

:02:32. > :02:35.the same and they choose to put in their security people at Sharm

:02:36. > :02:39.Airport, then you sense it's going to be a pretty chaotic and difficult

:02:40. > :02:44.situation there which suggestings to me that getting people home could

:02:45. > :02:49.actually take time. There has been some suggestions about using RAF

:02:50. > :02:53.Hercules transporters, but, you know, Joanna, they only take about

:02:54. > :02:57.100 people each, so the idea you could use them on bulk to get

:02:58. > :03:01.thousands home, that seems pretty difficult too. The second area they

:03:02. > :03:06.are going to be looking at at this COBRA meeting is the intelligence.

:03:07. > :03:10.There does seem to be a growing public acceptance almost that this

:03:11. > :03:13.was an IS attack because I note when Philip Hammond was asked about it

:03:14. > :03:18.this morning, he was asked very directly was this an IS attack and

:03:19. > :03:22.his reply was, that supposition is a possibility. Now, I translate that

:03:23. > :03:27.to mean that they think it probably was IS, albeit there are all sorts

:03:28. > :03:34.of afilliated groups. Lastly, as you mentioned, there is the diplomatic

:03:35. > :03:37.element. President Sisi was here on an official visit anyway, a lot of

:03:38. > :03:41.controversy about that visit anyway because of his human rights records.

:03:42. > :03:44.You probably can't hear, but there is a demonstration going on outside

:03:45. > :03:49.and this morning there were protesters. They are actually still

:03:50. > :03:56.lying down in front of the entrance to Downing Street in white

:03:57. > :04:00.Guantanamo-style suits blocking the entrance into Downing Street. It was

:04:01. > :04:04.a smaller demonstration earlier, actually it's quite a bit bigger and

:04:05. > :04:09.noisier now. So President Sisi will have to come through that, then

:04:10. > :04:12.he'll have to have the conversation with David Cameron and that will be

:04:13. > :04:16.awkward, because Mr Cameron is going to have to explain to him why

:04:17. > :04:20.British Government does not believe that security at Sharm El-Sheikh

:04:21. > :04:25.Airport is adequate. In looking at what the security

:04:26. > :04:30.changes might be, Philip Hammond has said emergency short-term measures

:04:31. > :04:36.will be put in place. Could it be things like British people getting

:04:37. > :04:39.involved in security there, armed marshals on flights, I mean how

:04:40. > :04:46.broadly are they looking at this? I don't think anything is off the

:04:47. > :04:52.table frankly. I think it's a real possibility that British personnel

:04:53. > :04:57.in some form may well be staffing the security positions at Sharm

:04:58. > :05:01.El-Sheikh Airport to supplement the existing routine Egyptian security

:05:02. > :05:05.checks. Now, that is quite a big ask for the Egyptians to allow that, to

:05:06. > :05:12.allow another country, as it were, to have their people alongside. But

:05:13. > :05:15.unless the security officials, British security officials are

:05:16. > :05:19.absolutely convinced that the Egyptians are completely on top of

:05:20. > :05:23.this, those planes are not going to return. So for those passengers,

:05:24. > :05:28.British tourists to get home, the British Government has to be

:05:29. > :05:33.absolutely 100% convinced that the security is watertight. If that

:05:34. > :05:37.means in the short-term putting in British personnel to stand

:05:38. > :05:41.alongside, to advise, to be a presence at the departure gates, I

:05:42. > :05:46.suspect that is probably what the British Government will ask for.

:05:47. > :05:50.Still to come: It's been described as one of the worst performing

:05:51. > :05:56.prisons in the UK. Later this morning a report will be published

:05:57. > :05:59.into conditions inside a County Antrim prison in Northern Ireland.

:06:00. > :06:04.We'll have the details and speak to a former prison. -- former prisoner.

:06:05. > :06:07.When the Government announced it was going to cut rents for people living

:06:08. > :06:09.in council houses and housing association properties it sounded

:06:10. > :06:14.The Government says four million will be better off.

:06:15. > :06:16.But this morning, a report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies

:06:17. > :06:19.says that two thirds of social tenants, those on housing benefit,

:06:20. > :06:23.And councils and housing associations have warned that the

:06:24. > :06:25.reduction will cost them millions, meaning they'll have to cut back

:06:26. > :06:31.Norfolk Park, a council estate, home to Kim and Liz

:06:32. > :06:35.Both social housing tenants, both receiving housing benefit to

:06:36. > :06:40.If you watch a lot of the stuff that is on the telly,

:06:41. > :06:45.And that is not what most council estates are like.

:06:46. > :06:48.It does not matter where you live, there is always going to be

:06:49. > :06:58.What do you think about some of the changes the Government is making?

:06:59. > :07:10.I'm not convinced that some of it is going to work.

:07:11. > :07:14.The latest change is a rent reduction for council and

:07:15. > :07:17.housing association tenants, down 1% a year over the next four years.

:07:18. > :07:23.Whether it will stay good depends on what the Government do with

:07:24. > :07:27.Well, the intention is to reduce that.

:07:28. > :07:30.The Government said it wants to lower the burden on the taxpayer

:07:31. > :07:35.So the only people that are going to win here are the Government.

:07:36. > :07:41.If our government money can be spent on other things...?

:07:42. > :07:48.But you only need to watch anything on the news just recently,

:07:49. > :07:51.and they do not seem to be spending a lot of money on anything.

:07:52. > :07:54.They seem to be slashing everybody's budgets.

:07:55. > :07:58.The central claim here is that although cutting rents will give

:07:59. > :08:01.people in places like this more money in their pocket, most of them

:08:02. > :08:04.will not actually be better off at the end of the day, because the

:08:05. > :08:07.Government also intends to then cut housing benefit. At the same time,

:08:08. > :08:11.councils will be worse off because they will not get

:08:12. > :08:17.So, in a city like Sheffield, where the council manages more than

:08:18. > :08:19.40,000 houses, making it one of the biggest social

:08:20. > :08:23.landlords, they think this change is going to cost them quite a lot.

:08:24. > :08:32.Over the next four years, that will be ?27 million out

:08:33. > :08:37.Over the period of the business plan, which is 30

:08:38. > :08:42.There is no way that services are not going to be affected with

:08:43. > :08:46.I have lived in this house just over 20 years now.

:08:47. > :08:48.Liz is one of the tenants the council says

:08:49. > :08:54.They are likely to extend things like bathroom refurbishment

:08:55. > :09:00.The Government is saying they will cut your rent by 1% a year,

:09:01. > :09:02.but they will probably also cut your housing benefit.

:09:03. > :09:08.I suppose if it balances out, it is not too bad,

:09:09. > :09:14.but I suppose it depends on whether it equals itself out or not.

:09:15. > :09:18.Will it make you any more likely to go out and get a job?

:09:19. > :09:21.Not at the moment, no, but in the future I will start

:09:22. > :09:25.looking for work and I would like to get back into work and start

:09:26. > :09:31.Would you be happy to carry on paying a bit more rent?

:09:32. > :09:37.I would not mind paying a little bit more.

:09:38. > :09:39.You do not think the reduction is actually necessary?

:09:40. > :09:43.The Government says this reduction will benefit 4 million social

:09:44. > :09:47.housing tenants who pay their own rent without housing benefit.

:09:48. > :09:52.It says it is determined to deliver higher wages, lower taxes

:09:53. > :09:57.You would say this, though, you are a Labour councillor,

:09:58. > :10:00.it is a Conservative government, you do not like what they are doing.

:10:01. > :10:04.This has been unprecedented, the amount of people that are

:10:05. > :10:09.We had a tenants' conference in Sheffield two weeks ago

:10:10. > :10:14.and we discussed the impact of this summer budget.

:10:15. > :10:18.And they were absolutely clear, they knew this was a bit of a con,

:10:19. > :10:26.If you live in social housing, this government just do not seem to

:10:27. > :10:40.David Mackintosh is a former council leader and you are on the Select

:10:41. > :10:44.Committee that looks at these issues. What about the point there

:10:45. > :10:48.that it's a contrary to suggest that people in social housing will be

:10:49. > :10:51.better off? This is about trying to help and support those in social

:10:52. > :10:56.housing. At the same time as reduce the benefit bill, we are spending

:10:57. > :10:59.far too much on welfare. We heard the lady saying she's happy not to

:11:00. > :11:02.have a job and to have her house and benefit paid. That's clearly wrong

:11:03. > :11:10.and we need to do something about it. Councils are worried. They say

:11:11. > :11:14.they'll have less cash to spend because of this. The Office for

:11:15. > :11:18.Budget Responsibility says 14,000 fewer social sector properties will

:11:19. > :11:22.be built between now and 2021 as a result of reducing the rental income

:11:23. > :11:27.of social landlords by the amount that is being reduced. Are you

:11:28. > :11:30.concerned that that impact could outweigh any potential impact to

:11:31. > :11:34.people, to the individuals who may benefit from the reduction? We want

:11:35. > :11:37.to see more houses being built and there are ways we can do that. In

:11:38. > :11:43.Parliament this week we were talking about the Housing Bill which also

:11:44. > :11:49.includes ways in which we can change the planning process to introduce

:11:50. > :11:54.the building projects. Housing Associations have huge surpluses

:11:55. > :11:58.that can be used to offset some of what is being reduced. Housing

:11:59. > :12:02.Associations receive ?13 billion worth of funding from the taxpayer

:12:03. > :12:06.every year, most coming through Housing Benefits. Year on year since

:12:07. > :12:11.20 #10e we have seen a 20% increase in those rents going up. So clearly,

:12:12. > :12:16.as the rents have gone up, so has the Housing Benefit bill and we need

:12:17. > :12:20.to reduce that -- 2010. The elements announced by the Chancellor in the

:12:21. > :12:24.summer shows this request saver ?1. Billion so it has to be done and

:12:25. > :12:29.housing associations and the councils need to look at ways to use

:12:30. > :12:35.their surpluses and different ways of doing things -- ?1.4 billion.

:12:36. > :12:38.Some are saying they won't have the money to spend on maintenance at the

:12:39. > :12:41.properties, so things like that will have to change, so people could find

:12:42. > :12:44.themselves in much worse quality housing as a result of this? I think

:12:45. > :12:49.with Housing Associations in particular, I was a council leader

:12:50. > :12:52.when the last spending round was announced and it was very difficult

:12:53. > :12:55.for the sector to understand what the impact would be and clearly

:12:56. > :12:58.there was a lot of scaremongering at the time. Having led an authority

:12:59. > :13:02.through that, there are many ways in which you can save millions of

:13:03. > :13:05.pounds of taxpayers' money by doing things different. Like what? And

:13:06. > :13:09.also protecting the frontline services you have. So that could be

:13:10. > :13:12.that some Housing Associations have to work closer together and that's

:13:13. > :13:19.no bad thing. Many local authorities have been sharing their back office.

:13:20. > :13:23.So things about their staff, their payroll, HR, IT for example, that

:13:24. > :13:26.could be looked at and that protects the frontline services that tenants

:13:27. > :13:30.will see, so there isn't really a need to change some of those and

:13:31. > :13:34.many have great services to offset this. So you are saying reduce staff

:13:35. > :13:38.by working more closely together? I would say reduce back office staff.

:13:39. > :13:41.The frontline is very important. Some people do very important jobs

:13:42. > :13:44.to help people in difficult circumstances but I think the sector

:13:45. > :13:50.is getting used to new proposals that they haven't had to face up to

:13:51. > :13:53.in the Le cent past and they need to look at things differently --

:13:54. > :13:56.recent. They can learn a lot from councils who've done these things

:13:57. > :13:59.over the years and there's still more that can be done. Thank you

:14:00. > :14:05.very much indeed. Thank you for joining us today. Still to come:

:14:06. > :14:07.We meet the man who suffered a heart attack

:14:08. > :14:10.and brain damage after being tasered TWICE by police as he tells us about

:14:11. > :14:14.And the surge in Israeli-Palestinian violence is now entering its second

:14:15. > :14:30.month - we meet young people living amid the violence in Jerusalem.

:14:31. > :14:32.Work begins to return thousands of British tourists

:14:33. > :14:35.from Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt - after the UK suspended flights.

:14:36. > :14:37.And many would-be holidaymakers due to fly OUT -

:14:38. > :14:45.The Foreign Secretary has defended decisions to ground flights. We had

:14:46. > :14:48.British aircraft on the ground about to fly back to the UK and we had to

:14:49. > :14:53.take an immediate decision about what was in the best interests of

:14:54. > :15:00.the people aboard, what was going to their safety and security. Cobra is

:15:01. > :15:05.meeting again this morning as intelligence reports suggest a bomb

:15:06. > :15:19.may have brought down a Russian passenger jets. -- jet.

:15:20. > :15:22.There are big differences in how police and prosecutors deal with

:15:23. > :15:24.allegations of rape across England and Wales - new figures show.

:15:25. > :15:26.The proportion of suspects charged with rape fell

:15:27. > :15:30.in the last year - and is as low as six per cent in one area.

:15:31. > :15:33.New warnings about kids and teens activity online - research

:15:34. > :15:35.by the charity Barnardo's found that around half of children admitted

:15:36. > :15:38.their parents don't always know what they get up to on the web.

:15:39. > :15:41.Lorin Lafave, whose son was murdered by an online

:15:42. > :15:43.predator told this programme people should make more use of the

:15:44. > :15:47.resources available to protect and educate them and their children.

:15:48. > :15:53.As parents, we have a huge job, to try and keep our children safe, and

:15:54. > :15:57.we have do continue to talk to them but do not stop at one source, speak

:15:58. > :16:00.to the school, speak to as many agencies, go online.

:16:01. > :16:02.It's emerged that MI5 has been secretly collecting oceans

:16:03. > :16:04.of data about UK phone calls to search for terrorist connections,

:16:05. > :16:08.The BBC has been told that the spy programme has been allowed

:16:09. > :16:16.The social network giant Facebook has reported a big jump in profits.

:16:17. > :16:17.It's because it's selling more adverts.

:16:18. > :16:24.There's also been a big increase in users from new markets.

:16:25. > :16:27.Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.

:16:28. > :16:29.Hello, the main sporting headlines this morning.

:16:30. > :16:31.England's cricketers lost final Test to Pakistan by 127 runs

:16:32. > :16:35.after a poor batting performance on the final day in Shar-ger.

:16:36. > :16:38.They lost their last 7 wickets for just 99 runs, captain

:16:39. > :16:44.The pressure has eased slightly on Jose Mourinho.

:16:45. > :16:49.A wonderful free-kicks from Willian earned Chelsea a 2-1 win over Dynamo

:16:50. > :16:51.Kiev to move them up to second in their Champions League Group.

:16:52. > :17:02.They equalled their worst defeat in European football

:17:03. > :17:07.They are now bottom of their group, with manager Arsene Wenger saying

:17:08. > :17:10.they have only a "small chance" of reaching the knockout stages.

:17:11. > :17:11.And Rory McIlroy has recovered from the effects

:17:12. > :17:15.of a dodgy club sandwich to made it to the tee for the opening round

:17:16. > :17:19.McIlroy, the world number three, finished the day 4-under par

:17:20. > :17:24.OK, that's all the sport for now but I'll have more on BBC News

:17:25. > :17:27.Check out the BBC Sport website too for all

:17:28. > :17:39.It's been described as one of the worst performing jails in the UK.

:17:40. > :17:42.Within the next hour a report will be published into conditions inside

:17:43. > :17:45.Maghaberry Prison, which is just outside Lisburn in County Antrim in

:17:46. > :17:55.Northern Ireland. The prison has had its fair share of problems.

:17:56. > :17:58.Every week on average four prisoners attempt to take their own lives.

:17:59. > :18:04.murdered on his way to work. In 2012, a prison officer was

:18:05. > :18:07.And in 2013 there was a 400% increase in the amount of drugs

:18:08. > :18:09.seized from inmates compared to the year before

:18:10. > :18:10.seized from inmates compared to the The Victoria Derbyshire programme

:18:11. > :18:13.understands that the report will be highly critical of the prison

:18:14. > :18:15.management and of the healthcare arrangements in place for prisoners.

:18:16. > :18:18.But what is life like in Maghaberry particularly if you have a medical

:18:19. > :18:22.Neil Nabney is a former prisoner, he was jailed for riotious assembly but

:18:23. > :18:34.We are also joined by Professor Phil scraped and from Queen's University,

:18:35. > :18:41.Belfast. Neil, you have experienced life behind bars, what was it like?

:18:42. > :18:47.As soon as I went in, it felt like you had been abandoned. Your

:18:48. > :18:53.punishment is being taken out of society but once you are in jail,

:18:54. > :18:56.you feel like you are being punished further every day. There were not

:18:57. > :19:02.enough staff to deal with everything and from a medical point of view, it

:19:03. > :19:05.was negligence. No matter how many complaints bulletin, they went

:19:06. > :19:11.unanswered. Every prisoner was looked at as a prisoner, we do not

:19:12. > :19:16.care. That was the attitude. Obviously you are making a specific

:19:17. > :19:21.allegation of medical negligence but we do not know the background to

:19:22. > :19:25.your treatment or the situation but tell us more about the health

:19:26. > :19:29.conditions that you had. You went in having had an operation and

:19:30. > :19:38.therefore had specific requirements once you are there, presumably? I

:19:39. > :19:47.was born with a condition where one of the symptoms is lack of jaw, and

:19:48. > :19:55.if that is not grow, it can restrict your airways. The operation went

:19:56. > :20:01.wrong and there is some nerve damage and bone degradation which can make

:20:02. > :20:05.eating difficult and cause chronic pain, and I cannot function without

:20:06. > :20:12.medicine on a daily basis, and they were the requirements I needed in

:20:13. > :20:17.prison. They did not seem to know how to deal with me and made through

:20:18. > :20:25.drugs at it or put me on copious amounts of drugs to the point that I

:20:26. > :20:31.was sleeping 17, 18 hours a day. Plus, it is hard to say whether they

:20:32. > :20:39.couldn't or wouldn't write me with sustenance but I had to do it with

:20:40. > :20:44.my own money from the tuck shop. Milk chocolate, fizzy drinks. The

:20:45. > :20:47.only people who were taken on to help me were the prison orderlies

:20:48. > :20:55.and stop they were getting me food and if they had not helped me, I

:20:56. > :20:59.would have had no help at all. More generally, about prison behaviour

:21:00. > :21:04.and the way it is managed inside the jail, tell me what you saw and heard

:21:05. > :21:10.of all of that. Throughout my time, I noticed that there were many

:21:11. > :21:16.attacks on staff. Whether they were warranted or not, that is a

:21:17. > :21:21.different story. Because the staff levels were increasingly dropping

:21:22. > :21:25.and there were no staff, sometimes we were on 24 hour lockdown. The

:21:26. > :21:34.prisoners would get up tight and agitated. It was like a powder keg

:21:35. > :21:39.ready to go. The more fights, the more attacks on staff, and then

:21:40. > :21:49.staff would go off on the sick. It would spiral. Professor, you have

:21:50. > :21:51.looked at what happens inside Maghaberry and other prisons, it is

:21:52. > :21:55.extraordinary to hear that for prisoners attempt to take their

:21:56. > :21:59.lives every week inside Maghaberry, what is your view of the situation

:22:00. > :22:07.inside that jail? The situation is dire, and Neil's very clear and

:22:08. > :22:15.lucid explanation of his own experience is, they are so typical

:22:16. > :22:20.of prisoners I have spoken to inside Maghaberry especially. It is a

:22:21. > :22:24.long-standing issue of institutionalised malaise. When we

:22:25. > :22:28.produced our report for the human rights commission in Northern

:22:29. > :22:31.Ireland, we found the prison estate was not fit for purpose, the

:22:32. > :22:37.management and staff were not trained, there was a culture of

:22:38. > :22:42.non-engagement with prisoners, and Neil has acknowledged that there has

:22:43. > :22:46.been some engagement with orderly staff, but we found a culture of

:22:47. > :22:54.impunity and denial, one in which people reacted to rather than

:22:55. > :22:57.proactive treatments. This really comes to the core of people

:22:58. > :23:05.attempting to take their own lives. There was inadequate mental health

:23:06. > :23:09.care, minimal out of cell time, lack of constructive activities. We

:23:10. > :23:16.worked with families where we found inadequate visit, and poor family

:23:17. > :23:18.contact. There were continued barriers to oversight and

:23:19. > :23:25.monitoring. All of this has to be put in the context of a report that

:23:26. > :23:29.came out as long ago as 2004, when the Northern Ireland affairs

:23:30. > :23:35.committee stated that this was the most complex and difficult prison in

:23:36. > :23:41.Europe. They went through the range of prisoners held in that prison,

:23:42. > :23:44.ordinary remand prisoners, sex offenders, asylum seekers, members

:23:45. > :23:49.of different loyalist organisations, members of different

:23:50. > :23:58.Republican organisations, that is the small group of people who are

:23:59. > :24:01.politically affiliated prisoners. Short-term prisoners, long-term

:24:02. > :24:05.prisoners, remand prisoners, where you are having a different culture

:24:06. > :24:09.of engagement. Remand prisoners are more like a revolving door.

:24:10. > :24:15.Long-term prisoners are having to spend the next ten years in that

:24:16. > :24:20.prison. That complexity is not only been recognised in terms of our own

:24:21. > :24:23.inspections here, and there have been successive inspections, this is

:24:24. > :24:29.the fifth by my reckoning since that period. Every single one of those

:24:30. > :24:39.reports as stated that this is a failing prison. White does nothing

:24:40. > :24:47.change? -- why. You hit the nail on the head. Just as an pleasing was

:24:48. > :24:55.the role to be government here in 2010. A prison review team was set

:24:56. > :24:59.up that reported in 2011, and in that they made 40 detailed

:25:00. > :25:03.recommendations. They recommended that Maghaberry should operate three

:25:04. > :25:10.smaller discrete units, one for remand is, one for long sentences

:25:11. > :25:15.and life, and one for those of high risk. -- Raman. In that, what you

:25:16. > :25:19.do, by breaking down a prison into component parts, you then treat

:25:20. > :25:28.individuals according to their needs, and we have two, as Neal so

:25:29. > :25:33.clearly said, prison is the punishment, not what happens to you

:25:34. > :25:36.when you go to prison. What we should be putting in place if we

:25:37. > :25:40.want to help people with their mental health conditions or physical

:25:41. > :25:45.health conditions, and we want to return people to society better able

:25:46. > :25:49.to cope with their lives and when they went in, we have to respond to

:25:50. > :25:55.their needs, and we cannot do that in a highly complex and by a tile

:25:56. > :26:04.environment where the staff are not train. -- volatile. -- trained. When

:26:05. > :26:13.you say why that does not happen, it takes political will and appropriate

:26:14. > :26:18.form of the system that has carried institutionalised malaise at its

:26:19. > :26:24.core for over 20 years. Thank you both very much. Some breaking news

:26:25. > :26:30.to bring you. A 56-year-old woman has been arrested by officers from

:26:31. > :26:32.the Metropolitan police counterterrorist command on

:26:33. > :26:36.suspicion of disseminating terrorist publication. We will bring you more

:26:37. > :26:41.if we get any more on that. Imagine going on a night out

:26:42. > :26:44.and waking up not remembering Well, that is exactly what happened

:26:45. > :26:48.to James McCarthy, three years ago when he was tasered by police twice

:26:49. > :26:51.in Liverpool and suffered Earlier this week, James won

:26:52. > :26:55.a case against Merseyside Police for "excessive use of force" and

:26:56. > :26:58.negligence after use of a Taser. It's the first civil court ruling

:26:59. > :27:01.of this kind in the country. After the incident

:27:02. > :27:03.in 2012 the Independent Police Complaints Commissions said

:27:04. > :27:05.the Taser use had been appropriate. Merseyside Police say they

:27:06. > :27:13.may appeal the ruling. Here with me now is James McCarthy

:27:14. > :27:22.and his dad Dominic. Thank you for coming in. James, I

:27:23. > :27:27.know that you did not remember anything after this attack. Tell us

:27:28. > :27:32.how your life has changed and what your life has been like? -- it has

:27:33. > :27:38.been difficult since it happened. I lost work, I lost my business, I

:27:39. > :27:43.could not afford to live in my own home any more, and I had to rebuild

:27:44. > :27:50.relations with my family and friends, my memory of who they were

:27:51. > :27:54.had gone. You were tasered for 11 seconds, and it was that in

:27:55. > :28:00.particular that has been criticised in this judgment, not the use of the

:28:01. > :28:08.Taser in itself. It caused you brain damage. Tell us what level of brain

:28:09. > :28:15.damage you suffered. It was minor brain damage, there was cardiac

:28:16. > :28:22.arrest which stop oxidant going to the brain. I'm not sure how long but

:28:23. > :28:27.for six or seven minutes I had no oxidant going to the brain. --

:28:28. > :28:33.oxygen. That obviously wiped out my memory after the brain damage. You

:28:34. > :28:38.are now looked after by your dad Dominic, and your mum at home.

:28:39. > :28:45.Dominic, what state was James in when you first saw him after this?

:28:46. > :28:49.He was in an induced coma and after the claiming he a 3 second memory

:28:50. > :28:59.and then it has got better and better. He knew who his parents

:29:00. > :29:03.were, his sisters and brothers, but did not know how he was with them so

:29:04. > :29:07.it was a proper start from day one. It must have been a terrible shock

:29:08. > :29:12.for you and your wife to find yourself caring for your son in that

:29:13. > :29:18.way. How had he changed, what was he like before? He enjoyed life, and

:29:19. > :29:26.then from that day, it went downhill. We had the judgment from

:29:27. > :29:31.the County Court judge saying that the use of the Taser in your case,

:29:32. > :29:36.James, was excessive and disproportionate to the threat posed

:29:37. > :29:42.by you. What impact would you like the judgment you have? I do not

:29:43. > :29:47.think Taser should be used by police. It is proved they do kill

:29:48. > :29:55.people survey should not use them, they should be banned.

:29:56. > :30:02.Previous rulings have said the use of Tasers is acceptable, it was the

:30:03. > :30:07.specific duration when it was used on you for 11 seconds that was the

:30:08. > :30:13.particular issue? That's left in the hands of the police officer how long

:30:14. > :30:17.they are going to use it for so, you know, in my opinion they should be

:30:18. > :30:23.banned completely. Obviously, your dad was saying your memory has

:30:24. > :30:27.improved since... The function of my memory has improved. A the moment

:30:28. > :30:31.it's functioning correctly but the memories I've lost my whole life

:30:32. > :30:36.that have been wiped out will not come back now. So now the way has

:30:37. > :30:43.been paved for you to get compensation? Yes. What will happen

:30:44. > :30:47.with that, are discussions ongoing? In what way? The level of

:30:48. > :30:51.compensation and what it might be and how long it might take to be

:30:52. > :30:55.agreed? I think it's going to be some time next year when they agree

:30:56. > :30:58.on the level of compensation but we'll have to go through that with

:30:59. > :31:03.the solicitor and have another hearing next year to decide on how

:31:04. > :31:10.much and what type that I should get. Obviously, there's no amount of

:31:11. > :31:16.compensation or money that it's worth, losing effectively your whole

:31:17. > :31:20.life, it means starting again and obviously the relationship with my

:31:21. > :31:23.family and friends, losing all that, that's more important, I would

:31:24. > :31:26.rather take that back than have some money. There should be some

:31:27. > :31:29.substantial compensation for what they done to me. How would you

:31:30. > :31:33.describe what you have lost, Dominic, and what James has lost?

:31:34. > :31:40.It's been the worst three years of the whole family's life. Even

:31:41. > :31:43.talking about it is horrible what's gone on, so, there's in way back, we

:31:44. > :31:49.have got to go forward. We thought he wasn't going to come out of his

:31:50. > :31:55.coma so it's a bonus now that he's here, that's how we go forward with

:31:56. > :32:03.it. How hard has it been having to nurse him through this? It's been

:32:04. > :32:10.horrible day-by-day. The first few days, he had a three second memory,

:32:11. > :32:12.he was saying the same thing every three seconds for hours, we

:32:13. > :32:16.shouldn't go through it, no-one should go through it. It's a

:32:17. > :32:20.lottery, they fire a Taser and don't know what is wrong with the people.

:32:21. > :32:29.Going back to that night, James doesn't have memories of it, what

:32:30. > :32:33.were you told had happened? The police never told us. James's

:32:34. > :32:39.friends came and told us. So he was in hospital? Yes. You didn't know

:32:40. > :32:42.why? His friends thought he was dead on the floor so we were going to

:32:43. > :32:50.hospital thinking he was dead. We got to the hospital and the police

:32:51. > :32:54.said that he was alive, in an induced coma, only two people to the

:32:55. > :32:59.bed at the time. Me and my wife went to the bed and three police officers

:33:00. > :33:05.sat around the bed with us and I was asking them to go out. They were

:33:06. > :33:10.saying we need to arrest him and I said go out and it took us two days

:33:11. > :33:15.to get rid of them. That was horrendous as well. After that, did

:33:16. > :33:20.you feel you were treated sympathetically, what happened? Not

:33:21. > :33:24.at all. The CID came to see us on the first day and said, their words

:33:25. > :33:29.were "we were justified in what we done" she told us, when he was in a

:33:30. > :33:32.coma. Now you have got this court judgment, how important is that to

:33:33. > :33:38.you? Very important that we won this case. The money, does the money

:33:39. > :33:42.matter? No, winning the case was the main thing to prove that they

:33:43. > :33:48.shouldn't be allowed to do what they done or leaving him on the floor,

:33:49. > :33:51.you know, with no pulse. There should be better after-care once

:33:52. > :33:55.someone's been Tasered, there should be a process they go through to make

:33:56. > :34:00.sure they are OK. Clearly they didn't go through any process. They

:34:01. > :34:05.left him on the floor flat. They should have checked his vitals. He

:34:06. > :34:10.was left for six minutes, from what we saw on CCTV. Obviously, you have

:34:11. > :34:15.strong thoughts about Tasers now and feel that they shouldn't be used?

:34:16. > :34:20.Yes. But in terms of how you two move on, do you kind of park that

:34:21. > :34:24.now, sort out the compensation and move on or will you campaign, what

:34:25. > :34:28.will you do? I think obviously I'm still in the process of getting

:34:29. > :34:32.myself fully fit, so once this court case is out the way and once I've

:34:33. > :34:37.had compensation, I can move on from that, then yes I think that will be

:34:38. > :34:43.something that I'll look into getting Tasers off the streets.

:34:44. > :34:46.People can have underlying health issues after being Tasered, so the

:34:47. > :34:54.police shouldn't be using them. No matter how long they use it for, the

:34:55. > :34:59.Taser killed me so... You feel like the old you has gone when you say it

:35:00. > :35:02.killed you? Yes, I'm a completely different person from before the

:35:03. > :35:08.Taser, yes, 100%. I've had to rebuild my whole life as a new

:35:09. > :35:13.person and the amount of conversation, I was running my own

:35:14. > :35:19.business, had my own home and that's all been taken away from me. That

:35:20. > :35:21.compensation will allow me to get myself back to work, retrain and go

:35:22. > :35:27.from there. Thank you both very much. Yes, thank you.

:35:28. > :35:30.Some break news to bring you. We are hearing that the Dutch Ministry of

:35:31. > :35:35.Foreign Affairs is now advising against travel to or from Sharm

:35:36. > :35:39.El-Sheikh airport, that announcement following the flight ban by the UK.

:35:40. > :35:43.Dutch people in Egypt are being advised to contact their travel

:35:44. > :35:48.agents and the suspension of flights is down to airlines, but it's the

:35:49. > :35:52.first country to follow on from the UK Government's announcement that

:35:53. > :36:02.British passengers should not fly out of Sharm El-Sheikh. We'll keep

:36:03. > :36:07.you up-to-date. A surge in dead Lynn Palestinian violence has had more

:36:08. > :36:12.stabbings reported this week. So far 11 Israelis have been killed and

:36:13. > :36:14.more injured. 69 Palestinians, including attackers, have been

:36:15. > :36:18.killed. There are also attacks where a vehicle is rammed into a crowd or

:36:19. > :36:22.a queue. It's all creating a climate of great fear and trepidation on the

:36:23. > :36:26.streets. Ben Allen has travelled to Jerusalem where much of the violence

:36:27. > :36:28.has taken place to talk to young people living through the latest

:36:29. > :36:34.crisis. TRANSLATION: Jerusalem is my home -

:36:35. > :36:37.where I was born. It is the place where we live

:36:38. > :36:40.and learn. I hate to say this, but everybody

:36:41. > :36:49.just seems suspicious to me. And it is horrid to live

:36:50. > :36:53.in a world where you always have to look over your shoulder to make sure

:36:54. > :36:57.that you are OK. It has been more scary, and it

:36:58. > :37:36.has changed my daily routine. It has been more scary, and it

:37:37. > :37:42.has changed my daily routine. I guess just

:37:43. > :37:46.the things that I used to do - take the bus to work, take the bus

:37:47. > :37:49.back, go out with my friends. And I don't think I am

:37:50. > :37:58.the only one who feels that way, because I can see the streets and I

:37:59. > :38:02.can see that people do not go out You can see it in their eyes,

:38:03. > :38:08.really. Today was the first time in a

:38:09. > :38:12.while that I took the bus. I was so aware of everything

:38:13. > :38:17.around me, and you look to see who is, I don't know, who looks

:38:18. > :38:22.suspicious or who has a look. And I guess this is what we

:38:23. > :38:27.live right now in the city. We have here the Jewish districts,

:38:28. > :38:40.and on the other side, it is the Palestinian

:38:41. > :38:45.neighbourhoods, where Arabs live. In the last three weeks,

:38:46. > :38:48.when events have unfolded, they put And it is the first time

:38:49. > :39:04.I have ever felt that. I feel they don't care

:39:05. > :39:11.about my life or my safety. But you are in fact just an ordinary

:39:12. > :39:16.person going about your business. It makes you sad,

:39:17. > :39:24.but mostly just angry, the way they keep a distance from you makes you

:39:25. > :39:29.feel like you are disgusting. These are two neighbourhoods,

:39:30. > :39:34.Sur Baher and Jabal Mukabbir, which are Arab neighbourhoods, and

:39:35. > :39:40.as you can see, they are bordering exactly with a Jewish neighbourhood,

:39:41. > :39:43.which is Arnona, where I work. And even despite the soldiers,

:39:44. > :39:47.that is just for security reasons, I can go in and they can come out

:39:48. > :39:55.as much as they want. But over the past few weeks,

:39:56. > :39:58.we have had terrorists come in a lot from these two neighbourhoods

:39:59. > :40:01.into the Jewish neighbourhood Even though I work here

:40:02. > :40:10.and everything is very close, I do not feel safe walking

:40:11. > :40:12.into these neighbourhoods In the past, it has been just

:40:13. > :40:19.way more easy to move around. I think that the government has

:40:20. > :40:25.realised that it is impossible to allow people to move in and out

:40:26. > :40:29.as much as they want if there can be a danger in any way to people who

:40:30. > :40:33.are living in old Jerusalem. And so I know that they have built,

:40:34. > :40:39.or intend to build a fence, or bigger fence, between

:40:40. > :40:42.the neighbourhoods, and restrict And I think that is

:40:43. > :40:49.a really good idea - for me. The main clashes

:40:50. > :40:53.in Jerusalem happen in Issawiya. You can see the checkpoint that the

:40:54. > :40:59.Israeli army put on the entrance. So you can see people are

:41:00. > :41:03.walking out on foot. Go out from Issawiya to go through

:41:04. > :41:13.the bus to go to work or university They are checked by their identities

:41:14. > :41:22.and their bags and everything they And they are just waiting for

:41:23. > :41:30.a long time because it is crowded. You can see, many people are

:41:31. > :41:33.going out at the same time. But Israel is controlling,

:41:34. > :41:40.the occupation is controlling There needs to be a firmer hand

:41:41. > :41:45.on terror, absolutely. I do not see any justification to

:41:46. > :41:48.murder, to stabbing people, to throwing rocks or any type

:41:49. > :41:53.of other terror attacks. And I do not want to get to

:41:54. > :41:58.the point where I have to do this. I do not understand much

:41:59. > :42:08.about security, but I think that if there are more actions to be done,

:42:09. > :42:14.my government needs to take them and my government needs to keep me

:42:15. > :42:18.safe and keep everybody else safe. TRANSLATION: Three weeks ago, I felt

:42:19. > :42:22.I could live in an occupied land. But after I have seen the way they

:42:23. > :42:26.deal with Arabs, I do not feel I can Previously, I used to believe

:42:27. > :42:33.in safety and peace. But now I feel as long

:42:34. > :42:36.as there is an occupation, Every cycle of violence gets more

:42:37. > :42:45.people desperate That's why I think that violence is

:42:46. > :42:54.not going to bring any revolution. Coexistence -

:42:55. > :43:02.this is the real revolutionary act, because this is what here in Israel

:43:03. > :43:16.and in general in the Middle East, We'll have continuing coverage on

:43:17. > :43:20.BBC News of what is going on in Sharm El-Sheikh. We are expecting to

:43:21. > :43:25.hear more from the Government about efforts to bring back stranded

:43:26. > :43:29.holiday-makers from Sharm El-Sheikh after flights were grounded due to

:43:30. > :43:32.security concerns. Dennis on e-mail says why would you go to these

:43:33. > :43:36.rezorses and put your children at risk. No-one can tell where the

:43:37. > :43:41.terrorists will strike, stay at home. Jamie on Facebook says the

:43:42. > :43:45.Government's made the right decision for one simple reason, to preserve

:43:46. > :43:47.and protect lives, to say it's an inconvenience is absolutely

:43:48. > :43:50.ridiculous, terrorism and attacks don't have a timeline, they are

:43:51. > :43:53.sporadic. Thank you very much for your company today and for all of

:43:54. > :44:02.your messages, have a great day, see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.

:44:03. > :44:04.MUSIC: Boombastic by Shaggy