12/11/2015

:00:00. > :00:00.Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:07. > :00:12.Murdered by her step-brother who acted out sick fantasies

:00:13. > :00:15.after watching online pornography - Becky Watts was just 16 when she

:00:16. > :00:17.was killed by the man she grew up with.

:00:18. > :00:25.I just couldn't accept it. He seemed fine, loving.

:00:26. > :00:30.The devastation and the heartbreak is indescribable. I do

:00:31. > :00:34.not have the vocabulary to describe the feeling.

:00:35. > :00:37.Watch the full interview in the next few minutes.

:00:38. > :00:40.Plus, a warning that mental health patients could be put

:00:41. > :00:43.at risk because NHS Trusts in England are cutting costs and

:00:44. > :00:49.We'll speak to an NHS trust before 10.

:00:50. > :00:52.And, forget the red carpet, award ceremonies and film premiers;

:00:53. > :00:56.George Clooney is in Edinburgh opening a cafe for homeless people.

:00:57. > :01:10.Hello and welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News

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:01:50. > :01:53.by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire.

:01:54. > :01:56."I loved him like he was my own son; now I hate him".

:01:57. > :01:59.The words of Becky Watts' father w is having to deal with the murder

:02:00. > :02:03.of his 16-year-old daughter and the knowledge that her killer

:02:04. > :02:11.28-year-old Nathan Matthews was found guilty of murdering her during

:02:12. > :02:17.His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter

:02:18. > :02:23.In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed

:02:24. > :02:27.it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister.

:02:28. > :02:30.He said he just wanted to scare her as he was upset with

:02:31. > :02:35.He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up.

:02:36. > :02:40.We're going to play you the beginning

:02:41. > :02:49.of that disturbing police interview now; it lasts just over one minute.

:02:50. > :02:51.Nathan, can you give us your full name?

:02:52. > :03:01.Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this

:03:02. > :03:06.It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts.

:03:07. > :03:20.Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone.

:03:21. > :03:25.HE SOBS I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan,

:03:26. > :03:29.but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things

:03:30. > :03:34.So perhaps if I could pull out some things from

:03:35. > :03:38.what you have told us and ask you to expand on it, tell us a bit more.

:03:39. > :03:47.I came up with the idea to scare her cos, like, to try and basically make

:03:48. > :03:51.more appreciative of life, so she'd be more appreciative

:03:52. > :03:56.for other people, she'd be like, grateful that she wasn't harmed or

:03:57. > :04:06.Later when he appeared in court, Matthews admitted watching

:04:07. > :04:09.pornography every day; he had multiple explicit images stored

:04:10. > :04:13.on his computer including a video about the rape of a teenage girl.

:04:14. > :04:17.Matthews' and his girlfriend's interest in sexual violence was not

:04:18. > :04:21.limited to looking on the internet, it spilled over into real life even

:04:22. > :04:27.In court, it emerged the pair swapped messages about

:04:28. > :04:31.sexual kidnappings and saved pages on their mobile phones of girls

:04:32. > :04:39.Becky Watt's father Darren and her step-mother, who is Nathan

:04:40. > :04:41.Matthews mother, Anje Galsworthy have been speaking exclusively to

:04:42. > :04:55.It seems so quiet without her here now.

:04:56. > :05:01.If you've got a child like Becky, you're just used to noise.

:05:02. > :05:03.And then when it is not there, you really notice it.

:05:04. > :05:07.They were like brother and sister and they acted like it as well.

:05:08. > :05:09.We was a little family unit, weren't we?

:05:10. > :05:13.We were a little dysfunctional because we were all

:05:14. > :05:16.from a different parent and partners and all that sort of thing.

:05:17. > :05:21.We was quite a strong little unit, which is why it is such a

:05:22. > :05:30.But together they raised Becky from the age of three.

:05:31. > :05:33.Nathan lived nearby with his granny, but spent most weekends with them.

:05:34. > :05:40.He was pretty good with her, to be honest.

:05:41. > :05:43.He used to take round all the adventure playgrounds

:05:44. > :05:46.for the smaller kids, with all the pits and stuff like that.

:05:47. > :05:52.And ironically her first clear word, and she didn't speak until she was

:05:53. > :06:02.It's really hot anyway because of the microwave.

:06:03. > :06:04.13 years later, Nathan, her stepbrother,

:06:05. > :06:09.Tell us about what it was like when she went missing?

:06:10. > :06:13.I never believed, not in the early stages,

:06:14. > :06:20.The anxiety of thinking that she was out there

:06:21. > :06:29.Your imagination absolutely running riot with horrible things that could

:06:30. > :06:35.I was determined I was going to get her back.

:06:36. > :06:38.Becks, if you can see this, get in contact.

:06:39. > :06:40.And if anyone out there knows summat, just tell us.

:06:41. > :06:46.If you've got her, then put her somewhere we can find her.

:06:47. > :06:59.It's like ripping your heart out and stamping all over it.

:07:00. > :07:10.It was a darkness that just wouldn't leave the house, wasn't it?

:07:11. > :07:12.I couldn't put my worst enemy through it.

:07:13. > :07:16.Six days after Becky went missing, Darren and Angie were moved out

:07:17. > :07:20.of their home as forensic teams moved in.

:07:21. > :07:25.We were in a bed and breakfast out on the A38...

:07:26. > :07:44.And Nathan and Shauna had been arrested.

:07:45. > :07:46.And body parts had been found at the address.

:07:47. > :08:01.We just wanted to die. Our whole family, everything we knew,

:08:02. > :08:08.And then when they told you what had happened?

:08:09. > :08:10.I sat on the bed rocking violently backwards and forwards.

:08:11. > :08:19.The police weren't sure if I would do any harm to Angie. But obviously

:08:20. > :08:28.I'd just been told my daughter had been murdered and butchered.

:08:29. > :08:32.Her body parts found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed.

:08:33. > :08:51.Yeah, well, your son, my daughter, aren't it?

:08:52. > :08:58.A loving son, I would have described him as.

:08:59. > :09:10.He has always been open and honest with me.

:09:11. > :09:21.Nathan's girlfriend, Shauna Hoare, came into the family six years ago.

:09:22. > :09:24.She always put yourself across as being very timid and mousy.

:09:25. > :09:28.She always used to get her own way though.

:09:29. > :09:31.To be honest, I didn't like first of all.

:09:32. > :09:35.I couldn't put my finger on it, but there was something off about her.

:09:36. > :09:42.I sort of became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit.

:09:43. > :09:45.And even loved her like a daughter, didn't I, in the end.

:09:46. > :09:48.Two years earlier at Nathan was best man, Becky and Shauna were

:09:49. > :09:51.bridesmaids, a united family, as Darren and Angie got married.

:09:52. > :09:55.They say, forever, despite this incredible strain.

:09:56. > :10:02.My love for her is immense, it really is.

:10:03. > :10:10.I've lost a couple of members of the family because I won't turn on her.

:10:11. > :10:17.If this doesn't break us up, then nothing is going to.

:10:18. > :10:23.Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom.

:10:24. > :10:27.I have put her bedroom back together now, so it is all I would was.

:10:28. > :10:29.It wasn't always as tidy as this, I can assure you.

:10:30. > :10:32.But, erm, yeah, this is how she likes it.

:10:33. > :10:35.I don't really want to leave here because...

:10:36. > :10:37.This is the only has she ever lived in.

:10:38. > :10:40.It has now been nine months since Becky died.

:10:41. > :10:47.I miss everything, even the arguments.

:10:48. > :10:51.Ten o'clock every night I expect that door to come

:10:52. > :10:54.and her to come through it - "Oh, cook us some tea, Dad."

:10:55. > :10:58.Every night I still listen out for it.

:10:59. > :11:28.We'll speak to Becky's uncle and a criminal psychologist later. Poor

:11:29. > :11:32.Becky didn't deserve this, nor did her family, those wicket people

:11:33. > :11:35.deserve to be put to death, from one texter. All evil is developed from

:11:36. > :11:42.childhood, nobody is born with it, we are born with a clean slate, all

:11:43. > :11:48.behaviour is learned, from another viewer. . Nurse Pauline Cafferkey's

:11:49. > :11:50.made a full recovery from ebola. We'll bring you the latest on her

:11:51. > :12:04.condition. The King's Fund health think-tank

:12:05. > :12:08.has warned patients are being put at risk through cost-cutting in NHS

:12:09. > :12:10.Trusts. The fund says 40% of Mental Health Trusts face budget cuts so

:12:11. > :12:15.are reducing staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing

:12:16. > :12:19.cheaper, untested self-help services.

:12:20. > :12:22.The Indian Prime Minister will touchdown this morning for a

:12:23. > :12:27.three-day visit to Britain. It's the first visit of an Indian Prime

:12:28. > :12:30.Minister in almost a decade. During his stay, Mr Mohdi will have lunch

:12:31. > :12:35.with the Queen and discuss business links with David Cameron.

:12:36. > :12:41.African and EU leaders will sign a deal today designed to reduce the

:12:42. > :12:44.number of migrants making ware way to Europe, a fund.3 will be

:12:45. > :12:59.established to improve conditions in the African countries that many

:13:00. > :13:03.young people are leaving. Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to

:13:04. > :13:07.a special unit at the Royal free in London last month after falling ill

:13:08. > :13:11.with ebola for a second time. She's been transferred to a hospital in

:13:12. > :13:16.Glasgow to continue her recovery. Fifa has released the names of the

:13:17. > :13:21.five candidates who'll compete to replace Sepp Blatter as President of

:13:22. > :13:28.world football's governing body. A Ctial figure and one-time race

:13:29. > :13:36.favourite, my shell Platini did not make the list -- Michel Platini.

:13:37. > :13:41.Apple have apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave

:13:42. > :13:45.their High Point shopping centre in Melbourne. A staff member can be

:13:46. > :13:52.heard saying "security are concerned that the boys would shoplift".

:13:53. > :14:00.There's been outcry. We are worried you might steal something. Why? The

:14:01. > :14:04.boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it simply racism. The

:14:05. > :14:10.manager has said sorry to the boys and head teacher. One has accepted

:14:11. > :14:12.it and said, we are chilling, no need to take it further.

:14:13. > :14:15.Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh

:14:16. > :14:21.and a change of tone from Russia regarding the doping allegations.

:14:22. > :14:28.Yes, for the first time since the World Anti-Doping Agency made its

:14:29. > :14:32.damning report into alleged widespread cheats and corruption in

:14:33. > :14:35.cheating, Vladimir Putin has spoken and ordered a full investigation own

:14:36. > :14:39.the claims saying the battle must be open against those accused of taking

:14:40. > :14:43.part in a systematic doping programme. It is, as was say, a

:14:44. > :14:47.change of tune, he's asked his Sports Minister to pay the issue the

:14:48. > :14:51.greatest possible attention after he pointed the finger at the UK

:14:52. > :14:54.anti-doping programme calling it even worse, so there's work to be

:14:55. > :14:58.done there. The same is true of English rugby as well. Stuart

:14:59. > :15:01.Lancaster stepped down as Head Coach following the poor World Cup showing

:15:02. > :15:04.and now the search is on for a replacement, just about everyone's

:15:05. > :15:08.having their say on who they think that person should be and whether

:15:09. > :15:13.they should be English or not. It seems likely England will have a

:15:14. > :15:16.first foreign Head Coach. In the sport in this country, the first

:15:17. > :15:22.English Head Coach. We'll take a look at that and we have an June

:15:23. > :15:27.date on Fifa and an amazing story in basketball too. All that after ten.

:15:28. > :15:29.NHS trusts in England are being accused of putting mental health

:15:30. > :15:32.patients at risk because of measures to cut costs.

:15:33. > :15:35.Our health correspondent Nick Triggle can tell us more.

:15:36. > :15:42.The report today from whom, and what does it say?

:15:43. > :15:50.It is from the Kings fund, and the first thing to say is how common

:15:51. > :15:54.mental health problems. One in four of us will suffer and mental health

:15:55. > :15:57.condition, from depression and anxiety to more serious conditions

:15:58. > :16:01.like schizophrenia. That is what the report said it is so important is

:16:02. > :16:05.the NHS gets care right. But it seems it is not, the report says

:16:06. > :16:11.there is widespread evidence of poor care and they are linking this to

:16:12. > :16:14.cuts in services. More than four in ten trusts have seen their income

:16:15. > :16:18.drop in the past year and have responded by moving to more unproven

:16:19. > :16:22.treatments, cheaper ones including merging specialist teams into

:16:23. > :16:27.generic ones in the community and increasingly relying on volunteers

:16:28. > :16:31.and support staff instead of doctors and nurses. Meanwhile the number of

:16:32. > :16:36.hospital beds has dropped. The report acknowledges this is part of

:16:37. > :16:39.a wider NHS drive to move NHS care out of hospitals and into the

:16:40. > :16:42.community but they say the mental health it is happening to quickly

:16:43. > :16:48.and on two grand a scale. What do the Government say?

:16:49. > :16:52.The Government says it is investing in mental health, the overall budget

:16:53. > :16:56.increased last year to ?11.7 billion, about a 10th of the overall

:16:57. > :16:59.NHS spend but it seems not all of it is getting through to the mental

:17:00. > :17:03.health trusts. There could be a number of reasons for that, the

:17:04. > :17:08.private and voluntary sector also get involved in providing services

:17:09. > :17:12.in mental health, but it may also be the case that, with money so tight

:17:13. > :17:17.in the mental health service, bosses are using mental health funds to

:17:18. > :17:23.plug gaps elsewhere. Now the Government has said they want to

:17:24. > :17:27.stop that, they want to see parity of esteem between mental and

:17:28. > :17:32.physical health, which essentially means treating them the same, and to

:17:33. > :17:36.ensure that happens they are introducing waiting time targets so

:17:37. > :17:41.that people who need access to talking therapies should be seen

:17:42. > :17:43.within 18 weeks, and for those experiencing their first episode of

:17:44. > :17:45.psychosis they should get help within two weeks, which mirrors what

:17:46. > :17:45.has been in place for years in terms of hip and the replacements and

:17:46. > :17:48.cancer care. OK, thank you very much.

:17:49. > :17:51."Kate" says the NHS dealt with her dad badly on a couple

:17:52. > :17:55.of occasions when he was self-harming and feeling suicidal.

:17:56. > :17:58."Kate" isn't her real name as she's asked to remain anonymous.

:17:59. > :18:08.She's been speaking to our health correspondent Sophie Hutchinson.

:18:09. > :18:11.The reality was, they just couldn't find in a bed.

:18:12. > :18:14.They were doing everything they could but they had to just keep

:18:15. > :18:18.So we had to, as far as possible, look

:18:19. > :18:23.On the Friday we were told, "If you need help out of hours,

:18:24. > :18:27.I know we shouldn't be living you at 5pm this Friday because of the

:18:28. > :18:32.That night he was very difficult and then it reached a stage where

:18:33. > :18:38.And when the ambulance came out we were taken to a cafe,

:18:39. > :18:41.which was meant to be a place where people could, out of hours, go to

:18:42. > :18:46.But we are talking about a man who was acutely suicidal,

:18:47. > :18:52.in an ambulance, to the extent that the ambulance staff didn't feel it

:18:53. > :18:55.was safe or appropriate to take him into the cafe while there wasn't

:18:56. > :19:10.So my husband and my mum and my dad were outside this cafe at

:19:11. > :19:12.11 o'clock at night in this ambulance, waiting to see if

:19:13. > :19:14.somebody could come out and see dad.

:19:15. > :19:17.Then after 50 minutes there was still nobody to talk to him,

:19:18. > :19:20.and so the ambulance crew made the decision, "Right, we're going back

:19:21. > :19:23.Which is not helpful for anybody involved.

:19:24. > :19:26.It's very difficult for A staff to manage somebody so acutely ill.

:19:27. > :19:29.And all the services knew that was not where my dad needed to be,

:19:30. > :19:33.Let's talk to Kerry, who's experienced psychosis and says her

:19:34. > :19:37.And Claire Murdoch, who's the chief executive of the Central

:19:38. > :19:40.and North West London NHS Trust, and also chairs the Cavendish Square

:19:41. > :19:43.Group which represents London's ten NHS mental health trusts.

:19:44. > :19:52.Welcome to both of you. Kerry, you went to A to try to get yourself

:19:53. > :19:56.admit it. What happened? At a few years ago after some difficult

:19:57. > :20:00.things in my life I became really seriously ill, I was frightened,

:20:01. > :20:08.very miserable, very confused and hearing voices. I knew that I was

:20:09. > :20:12.just getting worse and worse, and there came a point when I didn't

:20:13. > :20:18.feel I could keep myself faked so I ended up going to A and saying, I

:20:19. > :20:22.can't keep myself safe, please can I be in hospital? Bessette, you can't,

:20:23. > :20:30.there are no beds, and I got home. Two days later, I tried to set

:20:31. > :20:35.myself on fire. Luckily it didn't work, but I was sectioned, said

:20:36. > :20:41.hospital against my will, but a game I had to wait about nine hours in

:20:42. > :20:45.A and there were no NHS beds in the north-east of England at the

:20:46. > :20:50.time at all, so I was sent to a private hospital some distance away

:20:51. > :20:52.from where I lived, and that was frightening and confusing because my

:20:53. > :21:00.friends and family couldn't come and visit me as easily. Even since that

:21:01. > :21:04.have happened, there have been more bed closures. Since that time there

:21:05. > :21:09.have been 32 bed closures in my local area. Claire Murdoch, this

:21:10. > :21:13.story is an illustration of some of the things that this independent

:21:14. > :21:17.report is suggesting today. Do you recognise a pitch it is painting?

:21:18. > :21:22.First of all I would like to say I really recognise -- really welcomed

:21:23. > :21:27.the report because we all recognise the immense pressure services are

:21:28. > :21:31.under. When that pressure manifests so that decisions over whether to

:21:32. > :21:35.add amid someone or not when there is a bed available are compromised,

:21:36. > :21:39.then things are very, very wrong. We should not be waiting until we have

:21:40. > :21:42.two sections one, detain them against their will, when a few days

:21:43. > :21:46.earlier they were happy to come and ask for help. A whole different

:21:47. > :21:51.experience could have followed. There is a lot in the report that I

:21:52. > :21:56.do recognise, and I guess the key thing I would like to say is, whilst

:21:57. > :22:02.it is not all about money, some of our poorer funded services deliver

:22:03. > :22:06.brilliant care, it is this patchwork of service delivery, the postcode

:22:07. > :22:11.lottery, the variation. Isn't that decision down to the local NHS

:22:12. > :22:14.Trust, in effect? What the Government is saying, tell me if you

:22:15. > :22:19.buy what they say, we are distributing the money to the NHS

:22:20. > :22:24.trusts, if they are not pushing that into the right areas, how can that

:22:25. > :22:30.be the Government's bowled? Two things, one, yes, there is some

:22:31. > :22:32.extra money available this year the Mental Health Services targeted

:22:33. > :22:35.against certain services, but that is against a backdrop of year the

:22:36. > :22:40.Mental Health Services targeted against certain services, but that

:22:41. > :22:44.is against a backdrop to let against a real pressure against core

:22:45. > :22:50.services over recent years. Second, the money does not come directly to

:22:51. > :22:53.trust, it goes through several hands before it reaches trusts. Some

:22:54. > :22:59.commissioners, the hand it goes through, have passed on the money in

:23:00. > :23:02.total. Many have passed some of the money on. Some commissioners have

:23:03. > :23:07.said they have got such pressures elsewhere, that big old ones will be

:23:08. > :23:11.acute hospitals, A departments, the general culprits that we always

:23:12. > :23:16.come second best to, some areas have said some of that money has to be

:23:17. > :23:20.siphoned off to support bigger pressures elsewhere. We would say in

:23:21. > :23:25.the Cavendish Square Group it is unacceptable. I have heard through

:23:26. > :23:29.my collaborative networks nationally that there are some areas, some

:23:30. > :23:33.trusts, that have not seen any of that money. What impact will that

:23:34. > :23:39.have on people like Kerry? If I can come back to that point, I have been

:23:40. > :23:43.doing a lot of campaigning about bed cuts and so forth in the last few

:23:44. > :23:53.years. I have talked to everyone from the Deputy Prime Minister, and

:23:54. > :23:56.no one seems to take responsibility for saying, this is how the money

:23:57. > :23:59.should be spent. The Government announces these grand initiatives

:24:00. > :24:07.but then the money goes through allsorts of acronyms, like Monitor,

:24:08. > :24:14.the CCG 's... The Clinical Commissioning Groups. Their argument

:24:15. > :24:17.is that local commissioning groups are much better placed to make

:24:18. > :24:22.decisions about where the money should be spent locally? Except that

:24:23. > :24:28.local commissioning groups are largely made of GPs, and mental

:24:29. > :24:32.health groups have found they do not feel they have the expertise to do

:24:33. > :24:36.that commissioning. The other thing I would say is that obviously

:24:37. > :24:39.services are best locally commissioned with local providers,

:24:40. > :24:43.service users, the public, and, in a sense, everybody would support that,

:24:44. > :24:49.but there has to be some national standards and principles which no

:24:50. > :24:54.service is free to deviate from, so whether that is access to bed in a

:24:55. > :24:57.crisis, waiting times, access to psychosis services if you are young

:24:58. > :25:02.and it is your first episode, so on, so Bob, there has to be some

:25:03. > :25:05.principles and bottom lines. That is why the Government would say they

:25:06. > :25:10.have introduced waiting targets, those are the principles and the

:25:11. > :25:15.bottom lines. I agree with what you are saying about the waiting times

:25:16. > :25:18.targets being a good idea, although there is not enough money to

:25:19. > :25:22.implement what they need because services have been cut so

:25:23. > :25:31.desperately badly in the last few years. Since 2012 we have lost about

:25:32. > :25:36.40% of mental health beds. Waiting times, what sort of services do you

:25:37. > :25:40.get when you get there, that will be a big problem as well. I'm

:25:41. > :25:43.incredibly lucky because I had really good support with early

:25:44. > :25:48.intervention and psychosis service, and it turned my life around. Now I

:25:49. > :25:53.am in employment, getting married, things are at awful lot better. But

:25:54. > :25:57.over about half the country those sorts of services have been cut to

:25:58. > :26:03.ribbons. It doesn't even make economic sense, because they save

:26:04. > :26:11.?15 for every ?1 spent, so it shouldn't be a decision that, do we

:26:12. > :26:14.have these or not? Of course there should be excellent early

:26:15. > :26:20.intervention services in every area. It saves lives and it changes

:26:21. > :26:24.lives. This report today, is it a warning to politicians or local

:26:25. > :26:31.commissioning groups, or individual NHS trusts? I think it is a warning

:26:32. > :26:35.to individual NHS trusts to take responsibility for the changes they

:26:36. > :26:41.are making, to make sure they really understand how they are affecting

:26:42. > :26:44.people's lives. Stories like Kerry's motivate is incredibly and

:26:45. > :26:53.we do believe our services change lives and save money. I think one I

:26:54. > :26:56.regret about this report is that it really only largely points at

:26:57. > :27:01.trusts, and of course actually there has been a 40% cut in most local

:27:02. > :27:05.authority spending in recent years, and we heard earlier this week there

:27:06. > :27:11.will be even greater cuts to come. Some of those services are a vital

:27:12. > :27:15.component of keeping people well and helping us into been better in

:27:16. > :27:21.relapse. We all have contracts that are year-to-year, I signed my

:27:22. > :27:27.contract for this year in October when the year began in April,

:27:28. > :27:33.because we could not agree what the funding would be. We need longer

:27:34. > :27:37.term contracts, transparency of decision-making, consensus about the

:27:38. > :27:41.impact there will be. I would like to say one other thing, many of the

:27:42. > :27:48.new wings being implement it, recovery focused approach, it means

:27:49. > :27:53.looking at the person's assets, trying to equip service users

:27:54. > :27:56.together with them to better understand the power play of their

:27:57. > :28:02.illness and how to look after themselves better, how to articulate

:28:03. > :28:05.what works for them. That has an evidence base and it does, in all

:28:06. > :28:10.other aspects of health care, the more we understand our health, the

:28:11. > :28:14.more, if we have an illness, we understand what our choices are, the

:28:15. > :28:20.better the outcome is. But what you cannot do is replace evidence -based

:28:21. > :28:26.treatment with more self-care or peer support. It is both, it is a

:28:27. > :28:32.rich mix of support needed to keep people well, get them back to help,

:28:33. > :28:36.get them enjoying life, make them productive members of society. One

:28:37. > :28:41.last point, the average acute hospital, if it invested more in

:28:42. > :28:46.mental health for people who have complex physical conditions, could

:28:47. > :28:51.save, we believe, up to ?25 million per year. So it is a saving as well

:28:52. > :28:54.as the humane thing to do. Central Government is cutting the money and

:28:55. > :29:00.then the local groups, like the CCGs... The Government said that

:29:01. > :29:04.health service funding has been ring fenced and they have provided a

:29:05. > :29:08.little bit more for Mental Health Services, but they have also asked

:29:09. > :29:14.the NHS to make efficiency savings. That is not true, they stopped doing

:29:15. > :29:18.the survey looking at how much money was being spent on Mental Health

:29:19. > :29:21.Services a year or two ago, so now we actually don't know any more what

:29:22. > :29:26.is being spent. Central Government are putting the money, local

:29:27. > :29:32.commissioning groups and so on are having to make the cuts but they are

:29:33. > :29:35.not responsible for having not enough money to spend in the first

:29:36. > :29:39.place. No-one is taking responsibility, and meanwhile my

:29:40. > :29:43.friends keep dying because they need services that are not there. These

:29:44. > :29:48.are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people and they should not be

:29:49. > :29:50.happening. Thank you very much both before coming on the programme.

:29:51. > :30:17.The Minister responsible for mental health, Alistair Burt told us:

:30:18. > :30:28.Still to come, one of the relatives of one of the victims of the Alps

:30:29. > :30:48.plane crash says they still need questions answered.

:30:49. > :30:56.We can talk now to Courtney Vicar, Becky Watts best friend. Thank you

:30:57. > :30:59.so much for talking to us at this really, really difficult time, we

:31:00. > :31:03.appreciate your time this morning. I wonder if you can tell us and the

:31:04. > :31:07.audience a little bit about Becky, what was she like?

:31:08. > :31:15.She was really into her music and into her fashion. She really liked

:31:16. > :31:19.clothes, bought new clothes all the time and she really liked doing her

:31:20. > :31:23.make-up and stuff and her hair was her most important thing really, her

:31:24. > :31:35.hair. She also loved her dog as well. What kind of a friend was she

:31:36. > :31:39.to you? Oh, she was my, obviously my best friend, she would be there for

:31:40. > :31:43.me when I needed it. If I was sad I knew I could call her and she'd come

:31:44. > :31:49.to mine or I would go to hers if I was feeling sad and the same went

:31:50. > :31:56.for her. I think you last saw her a few days before her death and spoke

:31:57. > :32:01.to her the night before? It was in the day before. I spoke to her on

:32:02. > :32:06.the phone and she was really happy. I was texting her the night before,

:32:07. > :32:13.like, and she was just happy and just her normal self-. Self-. Did

:32:14. > :32:17.she talk to you about Nathan Matthews, what did she say to you

:32:18. > :32:22.about her step brother? That she was kind of scared of him and that he

:32:23. > :32:28.made some comments about killing her in the past, like quite a lot and I

:32:29. > :32:34.think the last of the comments was last year, like at the end of last

:32:35. > :32:38.year, so it was quite recent in respect of February, it was quite

:32:39. > :32:47.recent then. How did you react when she revealed that to you? My opinion

:32:48. > :32:53.of him kind of changed. At first I thought he was just a bit weird but

:32:54. > :32:58.I didn't think he was a bit like evil or anything, but when she told

:32:59. > :33:05.me he was saying these things, it made me scared for her. It just

:33:06. > :33:09.didn't sit right with me what she was saying and how she felt about

:33:10. > :33:15.it. She's not usually scared of much. To say she was scared of him,

:33:16. > :33:19.I was like, whoa, it must be a serious fear.

:33:20. > :33:28.Was she afraid to talk to other people about how she felt about him?

:33:29. > :33:35.I think that she felt like people either wouldn't believe her or that

:33:36. > :33:39.they would go overboard a bit and get angry with him and she really

:33:40. > :33:44.didn't want to cause trouble. I think that is why she didn't say

:33:45. > :33:53.anything to anybody. Did you ant to say anything or tell

:33:54. > :33:56.others? It was really her choice, I didn't want to say something because

:33:57. > :34:01.I didn't want her to get annoyed at me if I said something and she was

:34:02. > :34:05.like "why did you say that? ! " It was for her to say, it was one of

:34:06. > :34:18.those things where it's not my place to say it. Were you able to console

:34:19. > :34:23.her or support her? Well, I assumed, and we both agreed

:34:24. > :34:25.that because he's got a kid, it probably isn't anything serious. I

:34:26. > :34:31.never thought in a million years that would happen and I thought

:34:32. > :34:35.because he had a kid that he might have valued like his time with a kid

:34:36. > :34:37.a bit more than to do something like this.

:34:38. > :34:42.Courtney, thank you so much for talking to us this morning, I real

:34:43. > :34:50.hi appreciate your time, thank you. That's OK. Courtney Bicker, Becky

:34:51. > :34:55.Watts' best friends. Some comments from you: Rob says, absolutely

:34:56. > :35:00.heart-breaking account earlier on your programme from the parents of

:35:01. > :35:04.Becky watts. Paul says, heartbreaking, I don't understand

:35:05. > :35:18.the world and Lawrence says, God rest Becky and help ease the pain of

:35:19. > :35:21.the parents. There's been a bit of grumbling about the Chancellor

:35:22. > :35:24.George Osborne's spending cuts from his own MPs. Little did he expect

:35:25. > :35:40.the Prime Minister to be one of them Norman Smith is with

:35:41. > :35:47.us now. Not usual for a Prime Minister to

:35:48. > :35:53.write to his county council to protest at plans for roughly around

:35:54. > :35:58.?50 million worth of cuts. The cuts will mean, it's thought, maybe cuts

:35:59. > :36:03.to bus services, possibly cuts to day care centres for the eldererly,

:36:04. > :36:08.possibly cuts to library services. So Mr Cameron's penned a letter to

:36:09. > :36:13.his council to say, hang on a second, what are you doing, let's

:36:14. > :36:18.take a lack at some of what he says. He says, I was disappointed at the

:36:19. > :36:22.long list of suggestions to make significant cuts to frontline

:36:23. > :36:27.services. Then he goes on, sort of urging them not to go down this

:36:28. > :36:30.road, saying: I hope the county will move cautiously in setting out its

:36:31. > :36:34.budget plans. And, as a sort of final, I don't

:36:35. > :36:40.know whether it's meant to be helpful or put the squeeze a bit on

:36:41. > :36:44.the council, he says; I would be happy to initiate further dialogue

:36:45. > :36:51.with asth advisers in the Number 10 policy unit. That prompted a reply

:36:52. > :36:56.from the council leader, which I've got here, a six-page reply. He's

:36:57. > :36:59.gone through all Mr Cameron's complaints point-by-point trying to

:37:00. > :37:05.rebut them but starts with a zinger when he says, to the council leader,

:37:06. > :37:07.to D Cameron, "I along with many councillors worked hard to assist

:37:08. > :37:13.you in achieving a Conservative majority. " That is his opening

:37:14. > :37:18.line. He says "I cannot accept your description of a drop in funding of

:37:19. > :37:25.?72 million as a slight fall" he signs off "I hope that clarifies our

:37:26. > :37:29.position". So I take it he's not hugely amused by the PM's

:37:30. > :37:33.intervention. When asked about relations between the two last week

:37:34. > :37:37.he was saying, no, we get on timeth fine. Have alike at this. It's like

:37:38. > :37:41.all relationships. Sometimes off bits of tension, it's always going

:37:42. > :37:45.to be difficult at some stage, yesterday I was at Number 10 and we

:37:46. > :37:48.had a civil conversation. There's a good relationship there, but like

:37:49. > :37:53.all relationships, sometimes a bit of tension.

:37:54. > :37:58.Not surprisingly, Vic, as you can imagine, MPs are all saying, hang on

:37:59. > :38:01.a second, this is hypocrisy, it's David Cameron's Government who're

:38:02. > :38:05.imposing this cut, it's a bit rich for him to be complaining. That's

:38:06. > :38:16.been the line being pushed by the Labour Party. This was one of the

:38:17. > :38:19.spokesman this morning. Council leaders are finding health cuts. It

:38:20. > :38:22.seems extraordinary the Prime Minister didn't appreciate the scale

:38:23. > :38:27.of the cuts that hit his own council. When you move into the

:38:28. > :38:30.Metropolitan areas, the City and northern councils, because of the

:38:31. > :38:35.way the funding formula works, they are happy to find even deeper cuts.

:38:36. > :38:39.This has gone in another direction all together. Labour maybe are

:38:40. > :38:42.trying to milk it. They have write tonne the Cabinet Secretary to

:38:43. > :38:46.complain about Mr Cameron's behaviour and how they say it's a

:38:47. > :38:51.breach of rules around the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Their

:38:52. > :38:56.argument being that by inviting the council boss into Number 10 to have

:38:57. > :39:00.a chat with the Number Ten policy union, Mr Cameron is blurring the

:39:01. > :39:08.lines between his Prime Ministerial powers and his job as a local MP. I

:39:09. > :39:11.wonder if he'll have to extend that invitation to all council leaders

:39:12. > :39:17.then to discuss how cuts may be rolled out? I think the short answer

:39:18. > :39:23.is no, but what I think about this is, it's kind of a double edged

:39:24. > :39:26.sword to have the PM in your constituency because at one level

:39:27. > :39:31.it's great. If you are lobbying for something and want it done, you can

:39:32. > :39:34.get the PM on your side, that is a huge boost to your prospects of

:39:35. > :39:40.convincing the Treasury to stump up the cash. However, if the PM is not

:39:41. > :39:43.happy about what you are doing, it's a major pain in thederier because

:39:44. > :39:47.you have the Downing Street machine saying, just think twice about that,

:39:48. > :39:49.so I guess it's a double edged sword having Mr Cameron as one of your

:39:50. > :39:52.constituents. Thank you very much.

:39:53. > :39:58.He's one of the most famous men on the planet, but this morning George

:39:59. > :40:01.Clooney will swap the film set for a cafe for homeless people in Glasgow.

:40:02. > :40:14.Here is Carol. I haven't seen you since your Strictly journey was

:40:15. > :40:18.brought to a close. How was it? Brilliant. Such good fun. To start

:40:19. > :40:23.with I found it hard then grew to love it. I think I went as far as I

:40:24. > :40:27.could but do it, it's amazing! Was there anything you learnt about

:40:28. > :40:31.yourself that you didn't know before you went through all of that? Yes, I

:40:32. > :40:36.am brave than I thought I was. Really, that's fantastic! Took me so

:40:37. > :40:39.out of my comfort zone, every single Saturday I was dying of nerves but

:40:40. > :40:45.you had to go for it, push yourself in there and get on with it, there

:40:46. > :40:48.was no choice. Week one I did get stage fright, I was overwhelmed by

:40:49. > :40:52.it and if I could have run away from that dance floor, I would have been

:40:53. > :40:55.in the next taxi, but you had to stay and go through with it. You

:40:56. > :41:01.could have done a runner, that would have been a story! Was it a bird,

:41:02. > :41:07.was it a plane, no it was corkwood. How is it looking weather-wise?

:41:08. > :41:11.It's a bit lively today for some. We have got Storm Abigail approaching.

:41:12. > :41:17.Tonight is when we'll feel the effects of it in north and west

:41:18. > :41:22.Scotland where we could have gusts of up to 90mph. They could lead to

:41:23. > :41:29.travel disrun Australian and power cuts. Abigail is a deep area of low

:41:30. > :41:33.pressure. Look at the isobars, man! Even I know that's windy. I am so

:41:34. > :41:36.impressed but you are absolutely right.

:41:37. > :41:40.In England an Wales, it's going to be windy tonight and also first

:41:41. > :41:43.thing tomorrow. This little front here is going to cross to bring some

:41:44. > :41:47.rain again tonight and tomorrow morning. But the main thrust of the

:41:48. > :41:50.action is going to be across the north and west of Scotland where we

:41:51. > :41:56.have the tightest squeeze. That is where we'll have the gusts later

:41:57. > :42:01.this evening and tonight over 80 or 90mph. A lot to get in, so I'll

:42:02. > :42:05.carry on but it's great to see you. So good to have you back on our

:42:06. > :42:10.programme, never mind Strictly! See you later.

:42:11. > :42:17.En Today we have a quiet start to the day. There is some fog around

:42:18. > :42:20.which will lift. We have got some spots of rain coming in across from

:42:21. > :42:24.southern counties in across the south-west and Wales. Through the

:42:25. > :42:27.morning, the rain will gather across Northern Ireland, some will be heavy

:42:28. > :42:32.and the wind will strengthen. You can see the arrows are on, looking

:42:33. > :42:36.at gusts in the west of about 50-55mph. Push across central and

:42:37. > :42:42.eastern parts, the wind will be starting to pick up but it will be

:42:43. > :42:45.largely dry for much of the day. Looking at variable amounts of

:42:46. > :42:49.cloud, bright and sunny spells as well but patchy rain coming in

:42:50. > :42:57.across the south coast. We'll see some of that getting into Wales. We

:42:58. > :43:03.saw the wind arrows across the Irish Sea, close to the Irish Sea or areas

:43:04. > :43:08.adjacent will mean gusts of up to 55mph. The rain advances in Northern

:43:09. > :43:19.Ireland. Showers and winds inland of 15mph, maybe a little more. The wind

:43:20. > :43:26.will be the main feature, particularly through the evening and

:43:27. > :43:30.tonight. The main areas to have the strong gusts are Northern Isles and

:43:31. > :43:36.the Outer Hebrides. The Met Office has issued amber weather warnings

:43:37. > :43:41.which means be prepared, it could lead to some disruption. We'll see

:43:42. > :43:49.some snow on the mountain tops, lying at about 400 metres at lower

:43:50. > :43:53.levels. Do remember, as we head on through

:43:54. > :43:58.to tomorrow, this colder air pushes across the whole of the UK, so

:43:59. > :44:01.tomorrow you'll notice a real difference in the feel of the

:44:02. > :44:05.weather. It will feel much colder. Tomorrow too still a windy start to

:44:06. > :44:09.the day. The winds only very slowly abating. There'll be a lot of

:44:10. > :44:12.showers around, some will be heavy and thundery with some hail thrown

:44:13. > :44:15.in there for good measure and temperature-wise, we are looking at

:44:16. > :44:20.values between about six and 12. When you add on the elements, it

:44:21. > :44:23.will feel much colder, one in Aberdeen is how it will feel. More

:44:24. > :44:28.like eight in London. So a cold feel. That's not unusual

:44:29. > :44:32.for this stage in November but it's a real change compared to what we

:44:33. > :44:44.have been used to. From Friday into Saturday, we have got the remnants

:44:45. > :44:49.of Hurricane Kate coming our way. Over the weekend, we could see

:44:50. > :44:51.exceptional amounts of rainfall, particular aacross north-west

:44:52. > :44:52.England and north-west Wales and I'll keep you posted about that

:44:53. > :44:58.tomorrow. Hello, it's Thursday,

:44:59. > :45:00.it's just after 10am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to

:45:01. > :45:03.the programme if you've just joined Murdered by her step-brother who

:45:04. > :45:09.acted out sick fantasies after watching online pornography - Becky

:45:10. > :45:12.Watts was just 16 when she was killed by the man she grew up with.

:45:13. > :45:21.One of her best friends tells us she It didn't sit right with me what she

:45:22. > :45:27.said about how she felt about him. She was scared and she's not usually

:45:28. > :45:28.scared of much. To say she was scared of him, I was like, it must

:45:29. > :45:33.be a serious fear. Also coming up: We'll be discussing

:45:34. > :45:36.the best ways to cope with the menopause as a new

:45:37. > :45:39.report says women and doctors have "lost confidence"

:45:40. > :45:52.in hormone replacement therapy. George Clooney is in Edinburgh

:45:53. > :46:03.opening a cafe for homeless people and we'll be live there later on.

:46:04. > :46:07.Standards of care for patients with mental illness in England could be

:46:08. > :46:10.at risk from cost-cutting, according to a report from

:46:11. > :46:13.The King's Fund is warning that 40% of mental health trusts are

:46:14. > :46:17.facing budget cuts, so are reducing staff and hospital beds.

:46:18. > :46:20.It also claims that many are introducing cheaper,

:46:21. > :46:31.No-one is really taking responsibility, and meanwhile my

:46:32. > :46:36.friends keep dying because they need services that are not there, and

:46:37. > :46:38.these are avoidable, preventable deaths of young people, and they

:46:39. > :46:43.should not be happening. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi

:46:44. > :46:45.will touch down this morning It's the first visit of an Indian

:46:46. > :46:53.Prime Minister in almost a decade. Later he will make an address in

:46:54. > :46:57.parliament and there will be a fly-past from the red arrows. But he

:46:58. > :46:58.is a controversial figure, accused by opponents of having an

:46:59. > :47:00.authoritarian agenda. African and EU leaders will sign

:47:01. > :47:03.a deal today that's designed to reduce the number of migrants making

:47:04. > :47:17.their way to Europe. In the past hour, they have approved

:47:18. > :47:21.a fund of ?1.3 billion to try to stop young people from leaving.

:47:22. > :47:23.A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has

:47:24. > :47:26.been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation.

:47:27. > :47:28.Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the

:47:29. > :47:30.Royal Free in London last month after falling

:47:31. > :47:34.She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue

:47:35. > :47:37.Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will

:47:38. > :47:39.compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president

:47:40. > :47:44.Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did

:47:45. > :47:51.not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included.

:47:52. > :47:54.Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave

:47:55. > :48:04.Footage of the incident in Melbourne

:48:05. > :48:06.sparked a social media outcry.

:48:07. > :48:08.A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that

:48:09. > :48:16.We're worried about your present in our store, we are worried you might

:48:17. > :48:21.steal something. Why would we steal something?! End of discussion...

:48:22. > :48:24.The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'.

:48:25. > :48:27.The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher.

:48:28. > :48:32.One of the boys involved has accepted the apology.

:48:33. > :48:37.Let's catch up with all the sport now -

:48:38. > :48:46.Russian President Vladimir Putin says the country must carry out

:48:47. > :48:49.its own inquiry into the World Anti-Doping Agency's allegations of

:48:50. > :48:54.Speaking for the first time since the publication of Wada's

:48:55. > :48:56.strong condemnation, Vladimir Putin ordered co-operation with the

:48:57. > :49:05.TRANSLATION: It is necessary to hold our own internal investigation and

:49:06. > :49:10.provide maximum open, and I would like to stress this, open

:49:11. > :49:13.professional cooperation with international anti-doping agencies.

:49:14. > :49:15.I agree this is not only a Russian problem but if our foreign

:49:16. > :49:20.colleagues have questions about them, they have to be answered, too,

:49:21. > :49:22.and that has to be done in open, professional and conscientious

:49:23. > :49:25.cooperation with our colleagues. After Stuart Lancaster stepped

:49:26. > :49:27.down as the head coach of England's Rugby Union side, all thoughts have

:49:28. > :49:30.immediately been directed towards his successor and the person who'll

:49:31. > :49:32.ultimately be responsible for breathing new life into a team

:49:33. > :49:35.which did nothing but disappoint Our rugby reporter Chris

:49:36. > :49:48.Jones joins me now. A difficult time for England and

:49:49. > :49:53.Stuart Lancaster but who are the candidates to replace him?

:49:54. > :49:57.Two things that are no object are a nationality and money. The RFU and

:49:58. > :50:02.chief executive Ian Ritchie have made it clear they will scour the

:50:03. > :50:05.world for a global big hitter, someone steeped in international

:50:06. > :50:09.rugby experience. It is unlikely it will be an Englishman because the

:50:10. > :50:12.directors of rugby at the premiership clubs do not have that

:50:13. > :50:17.international experience, so we are looking at names like Jake White,

:50:18. > :50:23.who won the 2007 World Cup in South Africa. He would rip the RFU's arm

:50:24. > :50:28.off if they offered the job. Eddie Jones did wonders with Japan at the

:50:29. > :50:34.recent World Cup, he has huge experience going back to his with

:50:35. > :50:37.Australia. Michael Jack has transformed Australian rugby over

:50:38. > :50:41.the last year, but could he be prised away from that job and back

:50:42. > :50:46.to the Northern is the? Wayne Smith has huge backing but has confirmed

:50:47. > :50:50.to the BBC he wants to take a sabbatical, could the RFU changed

:50:51. > :50:57.his mind or bring him in further down the line? Joe Schmidt, Warren

:50:58. > :51:01.Gatland, a huge number of candidates because the RFU have said no money

:51:02. > :51:05.and nationality is an object for this, which means on one hand

:51:06. > :51:09.everyone is a candidate, and on the other hand no-one is because the

:51:10. > :51:11.best, big hitting names are in jobs at the moment.

:51:12. > :51:15.Sir Clive Woodward, the World Cup would encourage, thinks the RFU and

:51:16. > :51:19.all of rugby needs a structural change. Is this about more than the

:51:20. > :51:24.coach? It is a good point, he is pointing

:51:25. > :51:28.the finger at the RFU chief executive Ian. He was about who

:51:29. > :51:32.appointed Ian Lancaster in the first place, he gave him increased power

:51:33. > :51:37.was over the English game, a new contract grew to 2019 and beyond,

:51:38. > :51:43.and now Ritchie is the man to lead the recruitment process all over

:51:44. > :51:47.again, so apply the Woodward saying that why should he get another

:51:48. > :51:50.chance? He says there should be a bigger between the Chief Executive

:51:51. > :51:55.and head coach, a performance director, someone for the head coach

:51:56. > :51:58.to lean on and confide in. We should have a caveat saying that Sir Clive

:51:59. > :52:02.Woodward feels he is the man for the job since he is using his Daily Mail

:52:03. > :52:06.column as a way of putting in his job application. It does not mean

:52:07. > :52:10.they are not valid points, but the RFU would argue that the head coach

:52:11. > :52:13.needs to have total authority and should not have the answer to

:52:14. > :52:15.anyone. It will be fascinating to see how things go over the next few

:52:16. > :52:19.weeks. OK, thanks for joining us.

:52:20. > :52:21.Now to a truly inspiring story - Serbian basketball player

:52:22. > :52:27.Natasha Kovacevic has returned to the professional game two years

:52:28. > :52:33.after losing her leg in a car accident.

:52:34. > :52:35.Kovacevic was seen as one of her country's most promising

:52:36. > :52:42.players when the accident happened in September 2013.

:52:43. > :52:45.Now, with the aid of prosthesis, she is believed to be the first

:52:46. > :52:47.disabled European basketball player to play in a professional team.

:52:48. > :52:50.She scored five points for her new side Red Star Belgrade last night.

:52:51. > :52:53.That is all the sport for now, I will have a recap of the headlines

:52:54. > :52:54.at about 10:30am. Hello, thank you

:52:55. > :52:56.for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme

:52:57. > :52:58.if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:52:59. > :53:01.Channel until 11am this morning. Your contributions to this programme

:53:02. > :53:11.and your expertise really is key. We will talk about hormone

:53:12. > :53:14.replacement therapy later, so if you have experienced that, maybe do did

:53:15. > :53:17.not take it because of the associated cancer risks, which is

:53:18. > :53:24.why it is in the news again today, then let me know.

:53:25. > :53:26.And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you

:53:27. > :53:29.are via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria,

:53:30. > :53:32.and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app

:53:33. > :53:34.by going to 'add topics' and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.

:53:35. > :53:37.We've been talking this morning about the murder of Becky Watts

:53:38. > :53:39.and what motivated her stepbrother and his girlfriend to kill

:53:40. > :53:48.Becky's best friend has told us that the teenager was scared of

:53:49. > :53:57.Nathan Matthews, but she didn't want to tell anyone about her fears.

:53:58. > :54:00.Yesterday, Matthews was found guilty of murdering Becky Watts during

:54:01. > :54:03.His girlfriend Shauna Hoare was convicted of manslaughter

:54:04. > :54:07.In a police interview recorded in March, Nathan Matthews claimed

:54:08. > :54:11.it was an accident and he hadn't meant to kill his step-sister.

:54:12. > :54:18.He said he just wanted to scare her, as he was upset with how she was

:54:19. > :54:25.He said she'd leave things on the floor which would trip her up.

:54:26. > :54:27.We're going to play you the beginning of that disturbing

:54:28. > :54:30.Nathan, can you give us your full name?

:54:31. > :54:41.Perhaps if I just flag up for the recording what this

:54:42. > :54:45.It is about the kidnap and murder of Becky Watts.

:54:46. > :54:50.Obviously I don't want that to be read to someone.

:54:51. > :55:01.I don't want to read this out in full again, Nathan,

:55:02. > :55:05.but what I wanted to do was get some more detail from you about things

:55:06. > :55:52.Later, when he appeared in court, it came out that he had been watching

:55:53. > :55:58.pornography. Becky Watts' father and Nathan Bodman, perhaps been speaking

:55:59. > :56:02.to the BBC. We could not take it in, we could

:56:03. > :56:10.not believe it. Body parts had been found at the address. We just wanted

:56:11. > :56:22.to die. Our whole family, everything we knew had been ripped away from

:56:23. > :56:27.us. And when they told you what had happened? I was sitting on the bed,

:56:28. > :56:30.rocking violently backwards and forwards, screaming that I wanted to

:56:31. > :56:35.kill him. The police were not sure if I would do any harm to Angie, but

:56:36. > :56:38.they don't know how strong our relationship is. I had just been

:56:39. > :56:43.told that might daughter had been murdered, butchered. Her body parts

:56:44. > :56:54.found in suitcases and bags in a garden shed. I was just devastated.

:56:55. > :57:06.Anje just went into shock. You could see it. I just couldn't accept it.

:57:07. > :57:13.Your son, my daughter, wasn't it? Tell us about Nathan? A loving son,

:57:14. > :57:19.I would have described him as. He has never lie to me. Always been

:57:20. > :57:27.open and honest with me. I love to Mikey was my own son. Don't now, I

:57:28. > :57:31.hate him. -- I loved him like he was my own son. Nathan's girlfriend

:57:32. > :57:35.Shauna Hoare came to the family six years ago. She always put us up

:57:36. > :57:42.across as timid and Mel C. She always used to get her own way,

:57:43. > :57:46.though. I didn't like, personally. Couldn't put my finger on it but

:57:47. > :57:49.there was something off about her, never really believed in Herbert

:57:50. > :57:55.became more accepting of her and relaxed a little bit, even loved her

:57:56. > :58:00.like a daughter, didn't I, in the end? Two years earlier Nathan was

:58:01. > :58:04.best man, Becky and Sean were bridesmaids, a united family as

:58:05. > :58:08.Darren and Angie got married. They say the rubble, despite this

:58:09. > :58:15.incredible strain. My love for her is immense, it really is,

:58:16. > :58:22.unwavering. I have lost a couple of them as a family because I won't

:58:23. > :58:30.turn on her. I her, never. If this doesn't break is up, nothing will --

:58:31. > :58:34.I won't desert her, never. Becky was murdered here, in her bedroom. I

:58:35. > :58:39.have put her bedroom back of it was. It was never usually as tidy as

:58:40. > :58:44.this, I assure you, but this is how she likes it. I don't really want to

:58:45. > :58:49.leave here, because Becky lived here. This is the only how she ever

:58:50. > :58:56.lived in. It has now been nine months since Becky died. I just miss

:58:57. > :59:01.her, I was she was still here. I live everything, even the

:59:02. > :59:08.arguments. Yes. 10pm every night I expect the door to go, how to come

:59:09. > :59:13.through, cook us some tea, dad! But it never does. Every night I still

:59:14. > :59:17.look out, I listen out for her. It's ridiculous, she has been gone months

:59:18. > :59:22.now. And yet I still listen out for it.

:59:23. > :59:25.Let's talk about Doctor John Ed Barlow, a criminologist at

:59:26. > :59:30.Birmingham University, and in a moment we will speak to Liz

:59:31. > :59:33.Longhurst whose daughter, Jane, was murdered by a man obsessed with

:59:34. > :59:40.violent pornography. He was jailed for life in 2004. Doctor Bala, how

:59:41. > :59:45.would you describe the relationship as you know it between Shauna Hoare

:59:46. > :59:49.and Nathan Matthews? When we have come offending partnerships or

:59:50. > :59:53.relationships like Sean and Nathan, it is often the case that people

:59:54. > :00:00.draw upon notions such as evil or what is known as a map and a shared

:00:01. > :00:06.by two, but the relationship between Shauna and Nathan was more

:00:07. > :00:09.complicated. Shauna suggested during the testimony and trial that she

:00:10. > :00:12.experienced violence and control at the hands of make them throughout

:00:13. > :00:16.the relationship and talked extensively about this during the

:00:17. > :00:19.trial. Whilst this shouldn't be used as a technique to diminish her

:00:20. > :00:25.responsibility or to remove her sense of choice, to gain a more

:00:26. > :00:28.nuanced understanding of her co-offending relationship and her

:00:29. > :00:31.personal relationship with Nathan, we need to look at the whole

:00:32. > :00:37.relationship and how that may have influenced her decision to offend.

:00:38. > :00:40.She may have claimed those things during the trial but the police said

:00:41. > :00:45.yesterday she was calculate it, she was cold-blooded?

:00:46. > :00:52.Undoubtedly in these cases it's very difficult to say what is and what

:00:53. > :00:54.isn't the truth. Within this type of relationship, particularly if

:00:55. > :00:58.characterised by violence and control throughout the whole

:00:59. > :01:01.relationship, that needs to be the focus, rather than explicitly

:01:02. > :01:05.focussing on her role in the offending, it's also what led to

:01:06. > :01:09.that. In these co-offending relationships where there is

:01:10. > :01:13.violence or control, that should be considered as a potential

:01:14. > :01:18.influencing factor. You will know that Becky watts' father suggested

:01:19. > :01:22.that Hoares and Matthews could have been the next Rose and Fred West

:01:23. > :01:30.west, what do you think about that? There is a tendency within these

:01:31. > :01:36.co-offending offences to draw upon coexisting examples such as Rose and

:01:37. > :01:42.Fred West west or Myra Hindley and on Brady. These went on for a time

:01:43. > :01:43.though, and I would argue that these were not

:01:44. > :01:46.though, and I would argue that these were not criminal master minds It

:01:47. > :01:50.was more a case of power and control, particularly on the part of

:01:51. > :01:59.Nathan. OK, I'll come back to you in a moment, I want to talk to Liz

:02:00. > :02:04.Longhurst whose daughter was murdered by a man obsessed with

:02:05. > :02:08.online pornography. I wonder if you believe your daughter's death was

:02:09. > :02:14.preventible? Well, I think it probably was knowing what we know

:02:15. > :02:26.now but I think then I didn't. Graham Coutts was such a... He was

:02:27. > :02:32.extremely mazible. Fortunately I'm glad to say I never met him or his

:02:33. > :02:39.partner. His partner was expecting their twins so it's horrible,

:02:40. > :02:44.complete hi horrible. And you discovered later that he was

:02:45. > :02:50.obsessed with violent pornography, he had been viewing it online. Do

:02:51. > :03:01.you think that is relevant? Absolutely it is. At that time, one

:03:02. > :03:05.of Reading's MPs, Martin Salter, he took the lead on this and used me as

:03:06. > :03:11.a kind of figurehead - I don't think I had very much to do with the

:03:12. > :03:15.formation of the law - but I absolutely agreed with it that it

:03:16. > :03:20.should go ahead. Of course, it did, but the trouble is, the law's not

:03:21. > :03:26.that been used, that particular law, very much. A law that bans the

:03:27. > :03:33.ownership of extreme pornography? Indeed. But hasn't been used? It has

:03:34. > :03:39.but hardly at all. I think I can only think of probably a handful of

:03:40. > :03:43.occasions when it's been used. Do you think that search engines should

:03:44. > :03:46.take responsibility for trying to block that kind of material? Well, I

:03:47. > :03:52.certainly think they should but I don't think they do. I don't know

:03:53. > :03:55.what you think, Victoria. Well, they don't at the moment and always push

:03:56. > :03:59.back on that one and there's the argument about the global scale of

:04:00. > :04:04.it, how could you possibly kind of police that or enforce it. I think

:04:05. > :04:15.the thing is, we are all very sociable creatures aren't we, and so

:04:16. > :04:21.therefore we tend to sort of be friends with people who think as we

:04:22. > :04:24.do and I think that they should just take far more responsibility than

:04:25. > :04:29.they do. And Dr Barlow, as a criminologist,

:04:30. > :04:35.can I ask you about your views, the evidence that you've looked at, of

:04:36. > :04:38.the link between viewing violent pornography and then actually

:04:39. > :04:43.carrying that out in reality? Yes, with these kind of things,

:04:44. > :04:46.particularly thinking about violent pornography, whilst this would have

:04:47. > :04:51.been an influencing factor, it's very, very difficult to make a

:04:52. > :04:55.causing effect of relationships. In the case of Nathan, I believe it was

:04:56. > :04:59.much more about him wanting power and control, both within the context

:05:00. > :05:05.of offending but also within other relationships in his life as well. I

:05:06. > :05:08.think that perhaps came hand in hand with the sexual fantasy that would

:05:09. > :05:12.have come from the violent pornography. Do you mean power and

:05:13. > :05:15.control over Becky watts in particular or anybody whom he

:05:16. > :05:20.happened to alight upon? I think particularly with Becky. He talked

:05:21. > :05:27.in detail during the trial but also before in the text message exchanges

:05:28. > :05:33.we saw about his hate for Becky and that he obviously investigate

:05:34. > :05:36.envious and jealous of Becky, particularly with her relationship

:05:37. > :05:41.with other members of the family. It was power over Becky but also about

:05:42. > :05:47.other relationships generally within her family as well. In terms of your

:05:48. > :05:52.experience as a criminologist, where does this case fit, if I can put it

:05:53. > :05:59.like that? Actually, this kind of case is very rare. This is what

:06:00. > :06:03.criminologists called siblicide, where the perpetrator is the step or

:06:04. > :06:09.full brother or sister of the victim. This is very rare in

:06:10. > :06:12.reality, particularly on this level, this horrific and heinous crime that

:06:13. > :06:17.was committed within the context of Becky watts. So actually, even

:06:18. > :06:22.though Becky was in many ways the typical victim as a young female,

:06:23. > :06:27.the kind of crime that Nathan committed and the murder, the extent

:06:28. > :06:33.of the murder he committed, was much more common of an intimate partner

:06:34. > :06:38.relationship, rather than a sibling relationship. Thank you both very

:06:39. > :06:45.much for coming on the programme. Very nice to meet you.

:06:46. > :06:50.Nice to have met you and thank you. Let's talk about the migrant crisis.

:06:51. > :06:53.Still to come before 11; African and EU leaders have signed a deal

:06:54. > :06:56.designed to reduce the number of migrants making their way to Europe.

:06:57. > :06:59.?1.3 billion will be used to improve conditions in the African countries

:07:00. > :07:04.Our correspondent Gavin Lee is in Malta where the leaders are meeting.

:07:05. > :07:12.What have they been discussing this morning and what have they decided?

:07:13. > :07:18.Huge meeting, Victoria, 60 world leaders, 25 from Europe, 35 from

:07:19. > :07:22.Africa, the European leaders here at the Mediterranean conference centre

:07:23. > :07:27.in this scenic resort in the capital here. They are lined up one by one

:07:28. > :07:32.to sign a piece of paper which is effectively the centrepiece of this

:07:33. > :07:36.summit, a fund for African Nations of money, significant amount from

:07:37. > :07:41.the European Commission, ?1.8 billion euros. Jean-Claude Juncker

:07:42. > :07:44.asked in the past few days European nations to pledge what they could in

:07:45. > :07:48.return for African countries trying to stem the flow of their citizens

:07:49. > :07:52.facing the journey of land and sea, risking their lives to get to

:07:53. > :07:55.Europe. We have had today an announcement from 25 European

:07:56. > :08:00.countries, including Britain 3 million euros offered. It's reached

:08:01. > :08:03.half the target, some decided, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia, not to get

:08:04. > :08:06.involved at all, they were distrustful of where the money may

:08:07. > :08:09.go, but it's interesting from the point of view of the money being

:08:10. > :08:13.raised, there is a belief that Africa can actually do something

:08:14. > :08:18.about it collectively. I should give you a sense of what's being asked in

:08:19. > :08:22.return from African Nations. This is the second day of talks and there is

:08:23. > :08:26.a big emphasis from African countries, forgot just to talk hard

:08:27. > :08:32.cash but also to increase legal migration routes. I was talking to

:08:33. > :08:36.Senegalese governments in the past two days and they have said what

:08:37. > :08:40.about trading deals, education, chances for students, nurses,

:08:41. > :08:43.trained researchers. So that will be part of negotiations and, think

:08:44. > :08:46.about it as well, it's pretty specific, we are talking about the

:08:47. > :08:51.African part of this problem with migration for Europe, the idea of a

:08:52. > :08:55.much bigger flow from Turkey into Greece, that is for another date I'm

:08:56. > :08:59.told by the European Council. It's specific small steps at a time. Do

:09:00. > :09:03.you have a bit more detail, Gavin, on what this massive amount of money

:09:04. > :09:08.will be spent on? I mean it's got to be jobs in the end, hasn't it, if

:09:09. > :09:12.most people in parts of Africa are moving across the continent towards

:09:13. > :09:19.the continent of Europe for work? Yes. Let me give you an example of

:09:20. > :09:27.Britain's contribution. They have put 3 million euros to the trust

:09:28. > :09:30.fund, just over ?2 billion, a separate donation of ?25 million of

:09:31. > :09:37.taxpayers' money for Ethiopia. They have had a huge surge of migration

:09:38. > :09:41.people leaving in the country from just under 400,000 to just under a

:09:42. > :09:46.million this year to try to increase developments there. Money to the

:09:47. > :09:50.whole region. So Mali and certainly around the West of Africa as well,

:09:51. > :09:56.having humanitarian projects to help immediate aid relief. For Somalia

:09:57. > :10:00.too there is a big jobs prospect. David Cameron says it will create

:10:01. > :10:04.9,000 jobs so it's sporadic siphoned off areas. You have got to the core

:10:05. > :10:09.of this though, there are a lot of leaders. This summit have pledged a

:10:10. > :10:13.minimum amount and they have matched what other leaders have done, they

:10:14. > :10:18.won't go further until they can see proof of the money being spent and

:10:19. > :10:22.we see the return rate of the asylum seekers as economic migrants,

:10:23. > :10:25.something like 40% of those immigrants have been returned, no

:10:26. > :10:28.more than that, that rate's got to increase before other nations decide

:10:29. > :10:41.to pledge any more money. Thank you very much very much Gavin.

:10:42. > :10:47.Coming up, we are going to see George Clooney prepare to make

:10:48. > :10:51.sandwiches at a cafe in Scotland. Breaking news to bring you from our

:10:52. > :10:55.health editor, hue PIP who says the number of patients stuck in hospital

:10:56. > :11:04.beds in England because their discharge was delayed was at a

:11:05. > :11:11.record high in September -- hue PIP. -- Hugh Pym.

:11:12. > :11:15.Pressure on social services because of falling budgets has been blamed

:11:16. > :11:18.by many for the increase in the number of patients delayed from

:11:19. > :11:23.being discharged. Now, the Indian Prime Minister, that

:11:24. > :11:32.Rennes diploma Modi has arrived in Britain for a three-day visit

:11:33. > :11:37.expected to secure trade deals worth billions -- Narendra mow di.

:11:38. > :11:51.Christian Fraser, what is he going to do? Out comes the red carpet

:11:52. > :11:56.again, we have had Xi Jin ping and the fastest growing economy's Prime

:11:57. > :11:58.Minister, so strategicically important to British Trade

:11:59. > :12:02.Industry. There is a feeling when you read the newspapers that there

:12:03. > :12:06.is unrequited love there, that's the headline in the Financial Times, the

:12:07. > :12:10.idea that Britain is down on bended knee with the flowers for India, yet

:12:11. > :12:17.India in return's been this aloof lover. Narendra mow di's taken 18

:12:18. > :12:20.months to come here, he's been to 27 countries before Britain. The

:12:21. > :12:23.Government can point to the obstacle of the general election but there is

:12:24. > :12:27.a feeling that there is untapped potential in this relationship. The

:12:28. > :12:32.red carpet being rolled out yet again. Not a full state visit but

:12:33. > :12:42.you will recognise there are many similarities to the XI Jin Ping

:12:43. > :12:52.visit. He'll lunch with the Queen tomorrow, they'll go via the statute

:12:53. > :12:58.of Gandhi on the way to a speech to a joint session of the House and,

:12:59. > :13:01.according to Keith Vaz today, it's the first time an Indian Prime

:13:02. > :13:06.Minister's addressed the Parliament. So a landmark event in that sense.

:13:07. > :13:10.Tomorrow, I suppose the most important point of the visit for Mr

:13:11. > :13:15.Mow di, that is this huge political rally that they are going to have at

:13:16. > :13:20.Wembley. Around 70,000 Indians bust in from all around the country to

:13:21. > :13:27.mark the final day of Divali, the Indian Festival of Light -- Modi.

:13:28. > :13:37.Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Still to come

:13:38. > :13:40.before 11, claims that women and doctors have lost confidence in HRT

:13:41. > :13:44.as a possible treatment for the men pause because of the associated

:13:45. > :13:48.cancer risk. We'll talk about that, I have some messages from you as

:13:49. > :13:54.well who've been taking HRT. Also, the father of one of the British

:13:55. > :14:01.victims of the Germanwings plane crash caused by Andreas Lubitz

:14:02. > :14:09.deliberately crashed the plane into the Alps, the families still need

:14:10. > :14:16.answers. African and EU leaders have approved

:14:17. > :14:19.and signed off on a ?1.3 billion fund to reduce the migrants heading

:14:20. > :14:22.to Europe as a result of a special migration summit being held in Malta

:14:23. > :14:25.which continues today. Despite the fund, the President of the EU

:14:26. > :14:34.commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said he wants to see member states

:14:35. > :14:38.making further contributions. Indian's Prime Minister, Narendra

:14:39. > :14:43.mow dibegins a three-day visit today, the first visit of an Indian

:14:44. > :14:47.PM in almost a decade. He'll make an address in Parliament later and

:14:48. > :14:53.there'll be a fly-past by the Red Arrows. He's accused by some of

:14:54. > :14:58.having an authoritarian agenda. Mental care patients could be at

:14:59. > :15:03.risk of cost cutting according to an influential think-tank. The King's

:15:04. > :15:07.Fund warns 40% of Health Trusts are facing budget cuts so are reducing

:15:08. > :15:12.staff and hospital beds. It claims many are introducing cheaper,

:15:13. > :15:16.untested self-help services. No-one's really taking

:15:17. > :15:20.responsibility and meanwhile my friends keep dying because they need

:15:21. > :15:23.services that aren't there, and these are avoidable, preventible

:15:24. > :15:26.deaths of young people and this should not be happening.

:15:27. > :15:29.A nurse who contracted Ebola while working in Sierra Leone has

:15:30. > :15:32.been declared free of the virus and taken out of isolation.

:15:33. > :15:34.Pauline Cafferkey was readmitted to the specialist unit at the

:15:35. > :15:36.Royal Free in London last month after falling

:15:37. > :15:40.She's now been transferred to a hospital in Glasgow to continue

:15:41. > :15:45.Fifa has released the names of the five candidates who will

:15:46. > :15:47.compete to replace Sepp Blatter as the president

:15:48. > :15:53.Controversial figure and one-time race favourite Michel Platini did

:15:54. > :16:00.not make the list, while Musa Hassan Bility was also not included.

:16:01. > :16:03.Apple has apologised to six black schoolboys who were asked to leave

:16:04. > :16:09.Footage of the incident in Melbourne sparked a social media outcry.

:16:10. > :16:13.A staff member can be heard saying security are concerned that

:16:14. > :16:18.We're worried about your presence in our store, we're worried you

:16:19. > :16:31.The boy who posted it on Facebook labelled it 'simply racism'.

:16:32. > :16:38.The store manager has now said sorry to the boys and their headteacher.

:16:39. > :16:46.One of the boys involved has accepted the apology.

:16:47. > :16:49.Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.

:16:50. > :16:51.Hello again, the main headlines in sport this morning.

:16:52. > :16:53.The Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered

:16:54. > :16:55.a full investigation into claims of 'state-sponsored doping.'

:16:56. > :16:57.It's after a World Anti-Doping Agency report recommended the

:16:58. > :16:58.country be banned from athletics.

:16:59. > :17:02.After Stuart Lancaster parted ways with England yesterday the search is

:17:03. > :17:05.on for a new head coach, but will the RFU have to look

:17:06. > :17:10.Lewis Hamilton will take part in this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix

:17:11. > :17:15.He's also revealed he had a road accident in Monaco earlier

:17:16. > :17:23.And Chelsea's women face a difficult task to reach the quarterfinals

:17:24. > :17:31.They lost the home leg of their last 16 tie against Wolfsburg 2-1.

:17:32. > :17:34.They will need a great result in the the return leg next week.

:17:35. > :17:37.That's all the sport for this morning, I'll have all the latest

:17:38. > :17:41.I'm back tomorrow Victoria, see you then.

:17:42. > :17:47.Let's talk about the Nursie contracted a bowler working in

:17:48. > :17:51.Sierra Leone. She fell seriously ill again last month and has now been

:17:52. > :17:56.released from an isolation ward at the Royal Free Hospital, having been

:17:57. > :18:01.flown back to Glasgow to continue her recovery. In October, Pauline

:18:02. > :18:06.Cafferkey's condition was described as critical. Let's talk to Jane

:18:07. > :18:12.Draper, our health correspondent. Great news? A true, having Ebola not

:18:13. > :18:16.once but twice, being critically ill from it not once but twice, there

:18:17. > :18:19.were serious fears for her life and survival when she was said to be

:18:20. > :18:25.critically ill at the Royal free last month. When she was readmitted

:18:26. > :18:30.over a month ago it caused shock around the world, what did it mean

:18:31. > :18:34.for other Ebola survivors? We knew that the virus could hang on in

:18:35. > :18:37.bombardment of the body, but to make someone this ill again caused

:18:38. > :18:40.serious concerns, so it is great news that she is on the mend and

:18:41. > :18:47.back in Glasgow. Can I ask how they treat the virus?

:18:48. > :18:50.This time she was treated with an experimental anti-viral drug, a

:18:51. > :18:54.relatively new drug involving a drip once a day that she was given an

:18:55. > :18:58.infusion with, and it seemed to do the trick. But it is such a new area

:18:59. > :19:06.of science, there have been four cases now at the Royal Free, twice

:19:07. > :19:13.in bold thing Pauline, and each time all four patients, each four

:19:14. > :19:16.incidents used different treatments. It appears to have worked but we

:19:17. > :19:20.don't know if that was the drugs they were given all the body getting

:19:21. > :19:23.better, there is a lot we don't know about this virus.

:19:24. > :19:28.And I suppose we don't know if this is the final recovery or if she

:19:29. > :19:31.could regress? They don't know that either, resume of the?

:19:32. > :19:34.They are as confident as they can be, otherwise they would not have

:19:35. > :19:38.released from the specialist unit and the plastic tent in which she

:19:39. > :19:42.was being treated, so they are answered and there is no risk to the

:19:43. > :19:47.public. The biggest risk was always to Pauline herself rather than

:19:48. > :19:50.anyone else. But, yes, there are still uncertain questions more

:19:51. > :19:51.generally about the science of this virus, we are still learning.

:19:52. > :19:54.Thank you, Jane. When co-pilot Andreas Lubitz

:19:55. > :19:56.deliberately took control of his plane and plunged it

:19:57. > :19:59.in a mountainside in the French Alps earlier this year,

:20:00. > :20:05.he killed all 150 people on board. The family and friends of the

:20:06. > :20:08.victims have spent the last eight months trying to come to terms with

:20:09. > :20:11.what happened but they're also still searching for answers about how this

:20:12. > :20:26.tragedy could have happened. The view so many visitors have

:20:27. > :20:27.adored. Now the scene

:20:28. > :20:29.of Europe's latest tragedy. This is where flight number 9525

:20:30. > :20:32.crashed into France's Southern Alps this morning,

:20:33. > :20:33.with 150 people on board. A passenger aircraft reduced to

:20:34. > :20:36.debris the size of small cars. All around are the jagged edges

:20:37. > :20:39.and rugged peaks of the mountains, which are accessible, of course,

:20:40. > :20:41.only from the air. That's making the recovery

:20:42. > :20:44.and salvage operation after So many faces, so many lives,

:20:45. > :20:50.and a single question: Why did Andreas Lubitz, entrusted to

:20:51. > :20:57.fly these people safely, appear to We found medical records indicating

:20:58. > :21:05.an existing illness and treatment. Torn-up sick notes,

:21:06. > :21:10.including one from the day That supports the theory that

:21:11. > :21:14.the deceased hid his illness What do we know about

:21:15. > :21:17.Andreas Lubitz? The 27-year-old qualified

:21:18. > :21:21.as a pilot in 2013. When he took off on Tuesday he had

:21:22. > :21:26.630 hours of flight experience. There is speculation

:21:27. > :21:28.about a six-month break he took But as far

:21:29. > :21:34.as Lufthansa are concerned, Perhaps one of today's most

:21:35. > :21:41.distressing reports comes from the German tabloid newspaper, Bild,

:21:42. > :21:44.which claims it has got hold of a leaked copy of the cockpit voice

:21:45. > :21:50.recording made on flight 9525. On it, it's claimed you can hear

:21:51. > :21:55.the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, who's accused of deliberately

:21:56. > :21:58.having brought down the plane, chatting with his senior college,

:21:59. > :22:01.the pilot, before they take off. The pilot complains he's not had

:22:02. > :22:05.a chance to use the toilet. Once they are in the air,

:22:06. > :22:08.the co-pilot urges him The pilot does so, and then,

:22:09. > :22:13.according to Bild, can be heard knocking on the door,

:22:14. > :22:15.increasingly desperately, Passengers can be heard screaming

:22:16. > :22:21.as the pilot shouts, It is yet another chilling detail

:22:22. > :22:28.to come out of this disaster. New evidence that the co-pilot

:22:29. > :22:32.practised his fatal dive that killed It happened on a flight from Germany

:22:33. > :22:42.to Spain earlier the same day. On board that flight were

:22:43. > :22:44.three British victims. One of them was 28-year-old

:22:45. > :22:48.Paul Bramley. Let's talk to Paul's father, Phil,

:22:49. > :22:57.in his first national TV interview. Thank you very much for coming on

:22:58. > :23:08.the programme. Tell us about your son. He liked his football, very

:23:09. > :23:13.affectionate, lovely lad. He used to play football where we live, here's

:23:14. > :23:19.a Manchester United fan. It is difficult to speak about him because

:23:20. > :23:25.it is still very raw. He travelled, spoke many languages? Yes, I was

:23:26. > :23:28.thinking about that this morning, four languages, I don't know where

:23:29. > :23:36.he got it from! It must have been his mother! He had an Estonian

:23:37. > :23:39.girlfriend, so that helped him. He lived with us in Portugal, had a

:23:40. > :23:46.place in Majorca, so he spoke Spanish. Pretty good with his

:23:47. > :23:54.languages. He loved to travel. I think that's what led him, he was

:23:55. > :24:00.training to be a hotel manager, in hospitality. Everything was in front

:24:01. > :24:03.of them, at fantastic life. I think the plan was that you were going to

:24:04. > :24:07.build a hotel for him because you are in the trade, and he would run

:24:08. > :24:15.it for you? He had worked with us, he was a great lad to work with, you

:24:16. > :24:20.never had to tell him off, always on time. He was great to work with, and

:24:21. > :24:24.that is where we saw his future. He liked people, he wanted to be in

:24:25. > :24:34.hotel management. I build hotels and renovate them, so that was as far as

:24:35. > :24:38.we had got. In terms of the company, Lufthansa, who ran

:24:39. > :24:46.Germanwings, what answers do you need from them still? The big one,

:24:47. > :24:53.for us, is the mental health, we want transparency and the truth of

:24:54. > :24:59.what I understand of the facts from the French prosecutors will stop a

:25:00. > :25:05.few weeks before the flight, he was still seeing seven doctors. This is

:25:06. > :25:09.the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. He had seen several doctors from 2009

:25:10. > :25:15.onwards, I still cannot understand how somebody is allowed to be in a

:25:16. > :25:19.cockpit on his own with those sorts of issues that they knew about, so

:25:20. > :25:24.we want transparency on that side of it.

:25:25. > :25:29.You will know that German state prosecutor said that they found

:25:30. > :25:35.evidence that Lubitz had hidden this unspecified medical condition. If

:25:36. > :25:42.someone hide that, I wonder if you can legislate for that? We thought

:25:43. > :25:45.about it, him hiding stuff, but we are talking about a five-year

:25:46. > :25:49.period. The health checks that should have been done, that were

:25:50. > :25:56.done, how did he sit through those? How did he continue to be able... He

:25:57. > :26:02.had been suspended, how can you get back on and fly again? It is a long

:26:03. > :26:06.period of time, 51 different doctors. What about his friends,

:26:07. > :26:10.relatives, who else is going through this? Right up to a couple of weeks

:26:11. > :26:15.before, where are the safeguards, what are they doing to allow

:26:16. > :26:24.somebody back into the cockpit? You have got a duty of care. It is

:26:25. > :26:31.ridiculous, there has got to be some checks. Do you feel you have been

:26:32. > :26:34.treated decently by the company? No, it is almost run by solicitors, the

:26:35. > :26:40.stuff going on now. They are arrogant, inhumane. How they are

:26:41. > :26:44.having to deal with things, the information coming back, obviously

:26:45. > :26:48.they have got their defences up. We want justice for all of the

:26:49. > :26:54.families, all of the people. We want the information, we don't want it to

:26:55. > :27:04.happen again. There are other issues, I want a proper memorial at

:27:05. > :27:09.the crash site. There is one already, we turned up this year for

:27:10. > :27:16.Paul's birthday to the crash site and these seven big concrete bunkers

:27:17. > :27:24.have turned up, full of the body parts. I don't like that. There are

:27:25. > :27:27.quite a lot of things we would like to see happening, and bit more

:27:28. > :27:38.dignified than concrete bunkers and a small plaque. I would like to see

:27:39. > :27:41.them mentioned by name. I know you travelled up that mountain on

:27:42. > :27:47.Paul's birthday. Why was that important to you? I felt it was

:27:48. > :27:57.obviously where it happened, where he left his body, so I wanted to...

:27:58. > :28:03.Are you OK? Yes. I wanted to go up there and sit and just be a bit

:28:04. > :28:12.closer, I suppose. Is it difficult, that one. -- a bit difficult. It is

:28:13. > :28:15.about four hours, you are not supposed to go up there because they

:28:16. > :28:19.are still flying in a doubt, it has been six months, they are still

:28:20. > :28:25.sanitising the area, helicopters around all the time, so I got up

:28:26. > :28:29.early, managed to get up there in four hours, as high as I could to

:28:30. > :28:37.the rock face. It gives you a bit of comfort, it is a lovely place, very

:28:38. > :28:41.pretty place. You have got to remember there are only about 150

:28:42. > :28:45.French people living in that area as well and it has affected them

:28:46. > :28:48.enormously. Something should be done a bit more properly for them as

:28:49. > :28:59.well, it would help and be fantastic for us. Dignified. Something should

:29:00. > :29:04.be done. Whose responsibility is it, do you think, to make the decision

:29:05. > :29:09.about an appropriate and dignified memorial? I think the families, we

:29:10. > :29:14.are all the same, we all feel the same, we want something that

:29:15. > :29:19.remembers our children a bit more than what there is. It has been left

:29:20. > :29:26.up to the French, I think, and I think they feel affronted by a tall

:29:27. > :29:32.as well. It is disgraceful, what has happened. They have had to look

:29:33. > :29:38.after it all and do it all. I think if that would be good. You used the

:29:39. > :29:42.word inhumane to the company have treated, that is how you feel you

:29:43. > :29:50.have been treated by the company? Yes, it is almost like cut-price

:29:51. > :29:57.airlines, I don't think it is compatible, we are all to blame in

:29:58. > :30:00.some respects for this sort of culture of cheap flights. It is not

:30:01. > :30:11.compatible with safety, in my view, anyway. If it -- that is a bigger

:30:12. > :30:14.story. In terms of the way they have treated you? They took a step back,

:30:15. > :30:19.left it to the solicitors, accountants, everything else, arms

:30:20. > :30:30.length. It weeks to get a response that Paul was on the flight. Nobody

:30:31. > :30:34.has ever wrong and apologised -- ever called and apologised. I

:30:35. > :30:39.suppose they are frightened of the repercussions and everything else,

:30:40. > :30:42.but the humane side, if you were the CEO you would get straight on the

:30:43. > :30:47.phone and wring every family, every person. But you are probably right

:30:48. > :30:51.that they perhaps think if they apologise it is at a meeting some

:30:52. > :30:55.sort of liability at this point? We are beyond that, the liability is in

:30:56. > :31:04.place, they have a duty of care and they have failed. It is almost a

:31:05. > :31:09.given where the fault lies. Lubitz, the state he was in and everything

:31:10. > :31:12.else. An airline is there to prevent those sorts of things happening. You

:31:13. > :31:19.cannot put somebody in charge of a plane who has got that history.

:31:20. > :31:29.I've got a statement from Germanwings, you will have heard

:31:30. > :31:35.this before. We we share in the sadness, shock and incomprehension

:31:36. > :31:42.of the family and friends". It's short? Yes, so ring us up, you know,

:31:43. > :31:46.speak to us directly. Carol would appreciate so much more. We have a

:31:47. > :31:51.life sentence. That paragraph is shameful really. It's corporate

:31:52. > :31:57.talk, it's, you know, these are real people and real families and, you

:31:58. > :32:01.know, I would imagine they'll think that provided their share price

:32:02. > :32:09.isn't affected and all the other things, that this will go away in no

:32:10. > :32:14.time and we don't want this to be Just one of those that's happened.

:32:15. > :32:17.There was the Russian one, the Malaysian one, this one could have

:32:18. > :32:20.been prevented, this was different, something could have been done more

:32:21. > :32:24.than what was done. I know it's been really difficult

:32:25. > :32:27.for you to talk about this, but you have done it amazingly well, thank

:32:28. > :32:31.you very much, we really appreciate your time, thank you. Thank you.

:32:32. > :32:36.Before the end of the programme, we are going to talk about HRT and the

:32:37. > :32:42.associated cancer risks and, a report out today which suggests that

:32:43. > :32:48.HRT can do a lot of good for women going through the menopause. More on

:32:49. > :32:54.that in the next few minutes. George Clooney has just opened a cafe for

:32:55. > :32:58.homeless people in Edinburgh. Our correspondent Kevin is there. This

:32:59. > :33:03.is a tiny back street. It's a busy street here in Edinburgh but it's a

:33:04. > :33:07.pedestrianised area. There was quite a crowd here, gathered from early on

:33:08. > :33:11.this morning, and when George Clooney arrived, he got out,

:33:12. > :33:16.unexpectedly at the beginning of the crowd, and worked his way all across

:33:17. > :33:20.them, speaking to people, shaking hands. A lot of people taking

:33:21. > :33:25.selfies, a lot of people just enjoying the moment of seeing this

:33:26. > :33:30.Hollywood film star in this small back street in Edinburgh. He was

:33:31. > :33:33.here, as you say, to see this social project where people come in, they

:33:34. > :33:37.buy themselves a coffee then they can leave money to buy a coffee for

:33:38. > :33:40.homeless or disadvantaged people. But just before he went in, I was

:33:41. > :33:45.lucky enough to get a quick word with him.

:33:46. > :33:50.What do you think of what they do there? It's pretty amazing, I'm

:33:51. > :33:56.going to see it, haven't seen it up close yet. Why are you supporting

:33:57. > :33:59.this charity? It's a great idea. The idea that we can participate in

:34:00. > :34:02.people's problems is important. You must be used to a crowd like that in

:34:03. > :34:06.Scotland, we are not, what do you think of it? It's not bad because

:34:07. > :34:09.they are standing out in the cold. They are going to Sir John Stevens

:34:10. > :34:17.you a sandwich. What kind of a sandwich do you like? I gotta see

:34:18. > :34:22.what they got. They tell me stew is on the menu, what do you think of

:34:23. > :34:27.that? They got what? Stew. I'm good with stew. How do you feel about

:34:28. > :34:31.being in Scotland... How do you feel about this company making a social

:34:32. > :34:35.difference whereas Starbucks don't pay any tax. I don't know about

:34:36. > :34:39.Starbucks but I know about this company which is pretty great. Are

:34:40. > :34:43.you going to buy a loyalty card? Yes, I am. How much are you going to

:34:44. > :34:50.put on it? I don't know yet, I'll have a look. Don't push. You hand's

:34:51. > :34:57.freezing. There he was, Josh George Clooney,

:34:58. > :35:01.he's gone now but a few people who came to see him are still here. Why

:35:02. > :35:06.did you come here? I love him. He's so handsome. I was working and

:35:07. > :35:12.somebody came and said, George Clooney is in castle Street and I

:35:13. > :35:17.said, oh, my God, I ran here, came here, took a picture of him, tried

:35:18. > :35:26.to make a selfie but couldn't. You were not quite chasing after car but

:35:27. > :35:30.you managed to speak to him? Yes, and touch him. Absolutely worth the

:35:31. > :35:34.wait, two hours, well worth it. The person that he really came to see

:35:35. > :35:40.was the cofounder of the cafe, so how did this all come about? We knew

:35:41. > :35:45.George was a committed humanitarian, he has a charity in Sudan so we

:35:46. > :35:51.reached out to him and said we'd fund-raise for his charity and asked

:35:52. > :35:54.him to visit our Social Bite cafe, a social enterprise where we feed

:35:55. > :35:59.through meals that our customers prepay for for the local homeless

:36:00. > :36:04.community and we employ a quarter of the workforce from the homeless

:36:05. > :36:08.community so very excited that he came. What did he eat or drink? It

:36:09. > :36:14.was unbelievable, we have had the global media today so for our small

:36:15. > :36:17.Scottish cafes, the profile is amazing, raises the concept of

:36:18. > :36:22.social enterprise, homelessness. He was incredibly charming, met all the

:36:23. > :36:26.staff, did selfies, we gave the opportunity for a couple of guys to

:36:27. > :36:31.tell their story a bit. We let him sample some of the food and I think

:36:32. > :36:35.he's donated ?1,000 by all accounts to prepay meals for homeless people

:36:36. > :36:41.and he handed over a ?5 note as well. He worked the crowd when he

:36:42. > :36:45.was here as well, a true pro? An absolute pro, never quite seen

:36:46. > :36:48.anything like it, incredibly charismatic, stopped, shook hands,

:36:49. > :36:51.got photos with almost anyone that he could so unbelievable. Quite a

:36:52. > :36:55.day for Edinburgh, thank you very much, Josh. Quite a day for

:36:56. > :36:58.Edinburgh, it's not every day that an international film star, one of

:36:59. > :37:14.the most famous that there is comes to a little back street like this.

:37:15. > :37:20.It's believed HRT use has dropped dramatically since a couple of

:37:21. > :37:23.studies linked it to an increased risk of cancer a few years ago. A

:37:24. > :37:27.report says specialist services should be in place for women under

:37:28. > :37:33.the age of 40 who begin premature menopause. Melanie Davies is a

:37:34. > :37:44.consultant gainologist at London University Hospital and has worked

:37:45. > :37:51.on the guidelines and three women, Nia, Fisher Subarta. What is if

:37:52. > :37:54.menopause? When a woman's periods stop, stop producing the female

:37:55. > :38:00.hormone which is oestrogen. The similar Poms? About eight out of ten

:38:01. > :38:06.get symptoms, a quarter quite severely. It's typically hot

:38:07. > :38:11.flushes, night sweats, often muscle and joint pain, mood changes,

:38:12. > :38:15.particularly low mood and frequently sexual difficulties, sometimes those

:38:16. > :38:19.are physical to do with vaginal dryness and sometimes psychological

:38:20. > :38:23.with loss of interest. So HRT can help, what are the risks associated

:38:24. > :38:32.with taking it though in terms of cancer specifically? I should say

:38:33. > :38:36.the guideline tries to look at all approaches, not just at HRT. That is

:38:37. > :38:40.the most effective treatment for the symptoms though. The concern has

:38:41. > :38:45.been mainly over cancer risk and in particular the risk of breast

:38:46. > :38:48.cancer. We have reexamined all of the evidence and we are really

:38:49. > :38:53.focussing on women who are around the age of 50 going to their doctor

:38:54. > :38:58.with symptoms. For them, over the next five to ten years, there is a

:38:59. > :39:05.risk of breast cancer, it's about 22 in 1,000, to give you some numbers,

:39:06. > :39:11.and that would increase to about five per 1000. So HRT would be

:39:12. > :39:16.responsible for? An extra five cases of breast cancer. Up from the 22

:39:17. > :39:22.expected in a thousand women over five years? Between five and ten.

:39:23. > :39:26.Let me ask all three of you, some of you have taken HRT, some not, what

:39:27. > :39:32.do you think of the risks and how it affects your choices? I refused to

:39:33. > :39:37.take it. Because of the cancer risk? Precisely because of the cancer

:39:38. > :39:41.risk. Even though it's so small? Indeed but I already have existed

:39:42. > :39:46.illnesses so I'm putting in a far more amount of chemicals inside my

:39:47. > :39:52.body than necessary or required, so I turn to alternative they aries

:39:53. > :39:56.using herbal medicine. That was far more beneficial. Nia, what about

:39:57. > :40:03.you? I was diagnosed with menopause when I was 35 so the pros I thought

:40:04. > :40:05.far outweighed the cons as far as oestrogen that my body wasn't

:40:06. > :40:09.producing naturally any more. I think it's great that the guidelines

:40:10. > :40:12.that it mentions women under the age of 40 because there is a definite

:40:13. > :40:17.lack of support up until now. Hopefully that will change.

:40:18. > :40:22.Anxietyian, yours was a surgical menopause after a hysterectomy? Yes,

:40:23. > :40:28.total hysterectomy including both ovaries. Your decision about it was

:40:29. > :40:34.what? Initially it was that I chose not to take it and that was

:40:35. > :40:43.essentially due to a lack of information. My information was

:40:44. > :40:46.based on the way that some HRT is produced which is conjugated equine

:40:47. > :40:53.oestrogen andethically I could not take that. What was that thing

:40:54. > :40:59.about... Conjugated equine oestrogen. Is that horse urine, is

:41:00. > :41:05.that true that it contains that? That is the original HRT and the

:41:06. > :41:12.most widely used. The modern ones are not animal derivatives and they

:41:13. > :41:16.are more close to the human body. The GPs are saying effectively what?

:41:17. > :41:21.Have an individual discussion with the women that come to seek your

:41:22. > :41:26.advice. GPs would do that anyway without guidelines... That's not

:41:27. > :41:30.true, sorry, that's just not true. OK, go on, tell me! It's up to each

:41:31. > :41:34.and every individual woman now to make sure they have access to the

:41:35. > :41:37.right information. In this day and age of the Internet and everything

:41:38. > :41:41.else, there are still so many women who do not have the information they

:41:42. > :41:44.require and the GP is the last person possibly that you would get

:41:45. > :41:48.any information from. All you have to do is ask? Part of the

:41:49. > :41:52.difficulty, Victoria, is that many women feel very, very close by the

:41:53. > :41:57.time they make that appointment and go for that appointment. When

:41:58. > :42:01.they're turned away or given antidepressants or told, do you know

:42:02. > :42:08.actually it's just a phase of life, you'll have to get on with it, no.

:42:09. > :42:11.You want to come in Nia? When I was diagnosed, I was in a state of shock

:42:12. > :42:15.and lost all my confidence. Even the thought of picking up the phone and

:42:16. > :42:19.making a GP appointment was almost too overwhelming and I did but once

:42:20. > :42:22.I was in the room, you need somebody to give you the information and to

:42:23. > :42:25.take the reins because sometimes you are just not in a place where you

:42:26. > :42:29.feel you can do that. You were in a state of shock because A you were

:42:30. > :42:35.young and B it's going to affect your fertility? I'm infertile, yes.

:42:36. > :42:39.What help did you get then? I didn't get any help as far as the emotional

:42:40. > :42:44.side of it at all, no offer of counselling or pointed in any

:42:45. > :42:49.direction at all. It was all about HRT and the physical side of it. But

:42:50. > :42:52.that's only a fraction of what you are actually going through. That is

:42:53. > :42:57.really interesting, you would agree it's a fraction of what is going on

:42:58. > :43:01.up here as well? I initially chose not to take the HRT because my

:43:02. > :43:05.information wasn't complete. Eventually, I got to such a low

:43:06. > :43:11.place in my life, I wasn't functioning at all, and I went back,

:43:12. > :43:15.actually I was taken back to my GP by my wonderful husband and I sat

:43:16. > :43:22.down and when we sat down she said to me, you don't have to have that

:43:23. > :43:26.equine oestrogen, you can have bio-identical oestrogen, but I

:43:27. > :43:31.didn't know that. That hadn't been, at no point mentioned. After my

:43:32. > :43:35.hysterectomy, I'd managed to come out of the hospital within two days,

:43:36. > :43:36.that was my choice, I wanted to be out, I left with absolutely no

:43:37. > :43:41.information. All right. I have learnt a lot,

:43:42. > :43:46.thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the programme all of you.

:43:47. > :43:49.On the programme tomorrow, we'll look at the Russian doping scandal

:43:50. > :43:52.which has rocked athletics. Thank you very much for your company today

:43:53. > :44:02.and messages. Back tomorrow at 9. 15, have a good day.

:44:03. > :44:05.Join us on BBC One for a truly epic night of entertainment,

:44:06. > :44:09.featuring your favourite stars and shows.