13/11/2015

:00:00. > :00:11.I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme.

:00:12. > :00:15.US forces have carried out an air strike in Syria targeting

:00:16. > :00:18.the British self-styled Islamic State militant known as Jihadi John,

:00:19. > :00:22.who appeared in videos showing western hostages being beheaded.

:00:23. > :00:25.We'll look at the significance of his death - if it's confirmed.

:00:26. > :00:29.Plus, it looks like Russia will admit to some of

:00:30. > :00:32.the doping allegations made against their athletes, to try and avoid

:00:33. > :00:42.We'll get reaction from leading athletes, fans and coaches.

:00:43. > :00:48.And should GPs be banned from prescribing homeopathy treatments?

:00:49. > :01:00.Homoeopathy is a great example of a medicine that is not known to work.

:01:01. > :01:01.In fact, it is known not to work. When GPs incorporate homoeopathic

:01:02. > :01:04.medicines they get better results. We'll try and look at the evidence

:01:05. > :01:10.of just how effective homeopathy is. We're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:01:11. > :01:15.Channel until 11 this morning. Throughout the morning we'll keep

:01:16. > :01:17.you across the latest breaking After ten this morning,

:01:18. > :01:24.the couple who killed Becky Watts in a sexually-motivated kidnap plot

:01:25. > :01:26.will be sentenced. We'll bring you all the details

:01:27. > :01:28.as it happens. Plus, if you've experienced

:01:29. > :01:31.stillbirth, do get in touch with us. The government's announcing

:01:32. > :01:34.a programme to try and reduce the As always,

:01:35. > :01:42.your contributions to this programme Texts will be charged

:01:43. > :01:49.at the standard network rate. Don't forget, you can watch

:01:50. > :01:52.the programme online wherever you are, via the BBC news app or

:01:53. > :01:55.our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria. And you can also subscribe to all

:01:56. > :01:59.our features on the news app, by going to add topics and

:02:00. > :02:11.searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'". US forces say they believe they

:02:12. > :02:17.killed the self-styled Islamic State medicine -- militant known as

:02:18. > :02:23.jihadis John. Mohammed Emwazi appeared in many of the beheading

:02:24. > :02:25.videos by the group known as ices and became notorious for wearing a

:02:26. > :02:28.black robe and a balaclava. Well, the US Pentagon says it has

:02:29. > :02:31.targeted him in a drone strike And, according to

:02:32. > :02:34.a senior military source, there is But who was Jihadi John

:02:35. > :03:13.and how did he end up as a jihadi? If there were changes, they happened

:03:14. > :03:14.later. The school had no knowledge that was what was happening, if it

:03:15. > :04:21.was happening. One of Emwazi's victims was British

:04:22. > :04:27.aid worker David Haines, beheaded last year after being held hostage.

:04:28. > :04:29.This is what his widow told the BBC about him -- Emwazi earlier this

:04:30. > :04:34.year. I hope we will be caught alive. I

:04:35. > :04:48.think the only moral satisfaction for families have that he murdered.

:04:49. > :04:52.The last thing I would want for him is an honourable death.

:04:53. > :05:00.We are expecting a statement from David Cameron later today. We can

:05:01. > :05:06.speak to Charlie Wynter, a security analyst. If he has been killed, how

:05:07. > :05:11.much of a coup would that be for America and Britain? It would be

:05:12. > :05:17.very important. Islamic State really has championed Mohamed Emwazi as its

:05:18. > :05:20.figurehead in its brutal and notorious propaganda videos. This

:05:21. > :05:25.man is a source of the Brits and pride for many foreign and local

:05:26. > :05:32.factors of Islamic State. -- who Brits. If he has been killed it

:05:33. > :05:37.would be a symbolic blow. I don't think it would change much on the

:05:38. > :05:40.ground. I think the Islamic State leadership and operational structure

:05:41. > :05:43.is very opaque. What seems to be the case is that Emwazi was important as

:05:44. > :05:48.a figurehead but not so important operationally. Why would he have

:05:49. > :05:53.been picked out as a figurehead? Purely because of the fact that he

:05:54. > :05:59.was someone from London, he had a British accident, he was ideological

:06:00. > :06:04.the committed. Islamic State know what they are doing, they'd know

:06:05. > :06:09.what will cause the most outrage. He was someone who was suitable for the

:06:10. > :06:15.job. There was also to speculation about what had happened to him?

:06:16. > :06:20.Since January the 31st, when he appeared in a video in which the

:06:21. > :06:24.Japanese aid worker, Kenji Goto was killed. That was last time we saw

:06:25. > :06:27.him. A lot of months have gone past without him appearing. There has

:06:28. > :06:32.been a lot of speculation as to whether he had left the country,

:06:33. > :06:37.left State even. If any strike did happen, he has been here all the

:06:38. > :06:42.time keeping a low profile. What does it reveal about what is going

:06:43. > :06:46.on behind the scenes if this strike has got him in such a precise way?

:06:47. > :06:49.That is the other thing which is really important about this strike.

:06:50. > :06:55.It really does point to a high and sophisticated level of intelligence

:06:56. > :07:00.gathering for the coalition, specifically the United States. That

:07:01. > :07:03.will have anybody who is anybody within Islamic State worrying. It

:07:04. > :07:07.shows they are listening to the right people, they know how to get

:07:08. > :07:12.to the right people. If they can do that, who is to say they will not

:07:13. > :07:17.get someone more senior, summary of operational rather than symbolic

:07:18. > :07:21.value? Is intelligence improving? I think so, yes. For a long time there

:07:22. > :07:24.has been a dialogue in the intelligence community about how

:07:25. > :07:28.difficult Islamic State is to deal with. It is important to get human

:07:29. > :07:35.intelligence on the ground. That was something that was lacking. Now with

:07:36. > :07:41.this kind of thing, and the killing of June eight Husein, which was less

:07:42. > :07:46.high profile, still important, if these deaths do point to

:07:47. > :07:52.sophisticated intelligence, that is important in a conflict like this.

:07:53. > :07:56.Would you expect IS to respond? Perhaps. We can only talking

:07:57. > :08:04.hypotheticals. I am thinking in terms of confirming or denying if he

:08:05. > :08:07.is such a significant figure? There is a chance it could happen. Given

:08:08. > :08:12.the weight Islamic State operates I think it will try to manage the way

:08:13. > :08:17.this comes out to the press, manage the way their reaction is revealed.

:08:18. > :08:21.I think they really need to make sure that they do not look like they

:08:22. > :08:25.have had a loss. If they do make a statement they will emphasise the

:08:26. > :08:31.fact he is one of their heroes, someone looming -- attained

:08:32. > :08:34.martyrdom in an air strike. This is a big loss for Islamic State if it

:08:35. > :08:40.is true and big losses are important in terms of the overall operation.

:08:41. > :08:47.Add any other high profile figures the US are targeting? Almost every

:08:48. > :08:50.month we hear about air strikes. We do know the coalition is trying to

:08:51. > :08:56.pick of the higher-level targets in Islamic State. The operational

:08:57. > :09:01.leadership structure of IS is very opaque. It is difficult to know who

:09:02. > :09:08.to target. But clearly the US is trying to do that. It is doing so

:09:09. > :09:08.occasionally. They need more tactical victories like this.

:09:09. > :09:10.Thank you very much. Should GPs be banned from

:09:11. > :09:20.prescribing homoeopathic medicines? This is the week in which,

:09:21. > :09:24.at long last, the Prime Minister set out the deal he wanted from Europe

:09:25. > :09:26.ahead of that EU referendum. Last night the President

:09:27. > :09:28.of the European Council, Donald Tusk, said it would be "

:09:29. > :09:31.very difficult" to reach agreement. And many other EU countries have

:09:32. > :09:34.responded with near exasperation. To many of them it looks like just

:09:35. > :09:40.another chapter in what some now So why do we have such a troubled

:09:41. > :09:44.relationship with Europe? Here's our political guru,

:09:45. > :09:45.Norman Smith # And I nearly lost

:09:46. > :09:54.my mind # But,

:09:55. > :10:05.the one thing that never seems to go He wanted

:10:06. > :10:14.the European Parliament to be the He wanted the commission to be the

:10:15. > :10:18.executive and he wanted the council For the last 30 years,

:10:19. > :10:28.Europe has been the great, explosive The political argument

:10:29. > :10:36.in Britain is over. Every democrat will accept

:10:37. > :10:46.the result, you and all. But, why is it we are still

:10:47. > :10:48.banging on about Europe? I guess part of it is that no

:10:49. > :10:52.politician wants to be seen as a Now it is

:10:53. > :10:56.the Tories who are unhappy, but it used to be Labour

:10:57. > :10:59.wanted to get out of Europe. I guess rows over Europe are

:11:00. > :11:02.like a well-cut suit, I think we just know that it is

:11:03. > :11:09.the way you are and the way you You want to have your word

:11:10. > :11:21.on the matter. Yeah, you want Britain to be

:11:22. > :11:27.able to speak for itself. Elise Dherbomez is a French

:11:28. > :11:34.journalist living in London. How do you think people

:11:35. > :11:36.in the rest of Europe view us? I actually wrote an article

:11:37. > :11:38.about that once, I had to ask French people what do

:11:39. > :11:42.you think of the British. They told me, oh, really friendly,

:11:43. > :11:45.they are really friendly. And a bit weird,

:11:46. > :11:48.sometimes you do stuff that we don't always understand

:11:49. > :11:52.and we don't always understand How do people feel

:11:53. > :11:57.about our attitude to Europe? We believe that you only want

:11:58. > :12:06.the benefit of it. That David Cameron is playing

:12:07. > :12:13.a dangerous game. Of course, it is easy to blame

:12:14. > :12:18.our press and they do like to talk about bent bananas and barmy

:12:19. > :12:27.Brussels bureaucrats, but it's more We have a love-hate

:12:28. > :12:30.relationship with Europe. The wine, the food, the excellent

:12:31. > :12:38.transport systems, the clogs and But, here's the thing,

:12:39. > :12:49.we love their wine, we love their I kind of think that is because of

:12:50. > :13:00.our history and 1066 and all that. If we think about the classic story

:13:01. > :13:07.of British history it is about an island people resisting

:13:08. > :13:10.invasion from the continent, beating It is about the Battle of Britain

:13:11. > :13:19.and the Second World War. Even today, there is a tendency to

:13:20. > :13:22.see Europe as somewhere that does things to Britain, that regulates

:13:23. > :13:24.our bananas, restricts our laws. We don't necessarily think of

:13:25. > :13:28.ourselves as being part of Europe. What has been the impact of our loss

:13:29. > :13:34.of empire on the way we view Europe? When Britain created

:13:35. > :13:36.its empire it was, in a sense, outgrowing the continent of Europe,

:13:37. > :13:39.stepping out of Europe and into Becoming a European power marks

:13:40. > :13:48.a shrinking of its status. A shrinking of its place in the

:13:49. > :13:52.world, it is receding into a sort I've been reporting

:13:53. > :13:57.politics probably too long. Norman Smith, BBC News at

:13:58. > :14:01.Labour Party headquarters. Whatever the result of Mr Cameron's

:14:02. > :14:15.referendum, I'll still be reporting about Euro rows

:14:16. > :14:18.and we will all still be banging Thanks for joining us today,

:14:19. > :14:30.still to come. It looks

:14:31. > :14:32.like Russia will admit to some of the doping allegations made against

:14:33. > :14:35.their athletes, to try and avoid We'll get reaction from leading

:14:36. > :14:43.athletes, fans and coaches. Plus, do you need a degree to be

:14:44. > :14:46.a good copper? There's a suggestion this morning

:14:47. > :14:48.that police recruits should have US forces carry out

:14:49. > :15:02.a drone strike on a vehicle carrying the British Islamic State militant

:15:03. > :15:04.known as "Jihadi John". A senior military source has told

:15:05. > :15:07.the BBC there is a "high degree of certainty" that

:15:08. > :15:16.Mohammed Emwazi has been killed. Downing Street says the UK has been

:15:17. > :15:17.working hand in glove with the Americans to track down hostage

:15:18. > :15:19.murderers. The chancellor, George Osborne,

:15:20. > :15:21.has announced the sale of 13 billion pounds worth

:15:22. > :15:23.of former Northern Rock mortgages, The government has sold about 85% of

:15:24. > :15:37.its assets. The couple who killed Becky Watts

:15:38. > :15:40.will be sentenced today at Earlier this week a jury took less

:15:41. > :15:44.than four hours to find 28-year old Nathan Matthews guilty of his step

:15:45. > :15:47.sister's murder and 21-year old The teenager was strangled

:15:48. > :15:54.to death in February. Myanmar's opposition,

:15:55. > :15:57.led by Aung San Suu Kyi, has won a historic victory in the first

:15:58. > :16:03.free election in 25 years. It's won enough seats

:16:04. > :16:05.in parliament to form a government and choose the next President,

:16:06. > :16:11.after Sunday's landmark vote. The first storm to be named in

:16:12. > :16:14.the UK has been causing disruption Abigail has seen gusts of more than

:16:15. > :16:18.80 miles per hour in the Orkney and Western Isles and hundreds were

:16:19. > :16:31.left without power overnight. Many schools are closed. Dermot

:16:32. > :16:34.O'Leary will step into Sir Terry Wogan's shoes. He is missing the

:16:35. > :16:36.fundraiser for the first time because of back problems.

:16:37. > :16:39.Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh and we'll find out

:16:40. > :16:41.today what sanctions will be imposed on Russian athletics.

:16:42. > :16:50.Tell us more. Just after 10am, more on the athletics story concerning

:16:51. > :16:57.Russia and we will speak about it in more detail. They will find out if

:16:58. > :17:00.they will be banned from international competition and they

:17:01. > :17:05.will hope they will not be bound by claiming irregularities around their

:17:06. > :17:11.drug testing system. Blaming them on their old leadership. It will be a

:17:12. > :17:15.tense day for everyone concerned. Plenty of friendly action in

:17:16. > :17:19.football. England have a tough match away in Spain. Northern Ireland face

:17:20. > :17:20.Latvia and Wales will be favourites against an out of sorts Netherlands

:17:21. > :17:29.side. But the focus will be on Zenitsa

:17:30. > :17:32.for the Republic of Ireland's Euro 2016 play-off first leg

:17:33. > :17:34.against Bosnia-Herzegovina. Ireland will look to join Wales,

:17:35. > :17:36.England, and Northern Ireland at next summer's tournament in France

:17:37. > :17:39.but it won't be easy, captain Robbie Keane has spoken about the intense

:17:40. > :17:42.and hostile they should receive. Personally he says he'll enjoy

:17:43. > :17:44.the electric atmosphere and the We'll be speaking to 5live

:17:45. > :17:47.commentator Conor McNamara who'll be at the game tonight

:17:48. > :17:50.to preview what's to come. That and more coming up just

:17:51. > :17:55.after 10am. It looks like Russia's athletics

:17:56. > :17:58.federation is planning to admit to some of the charges made against it

:17:59. > :18:01.by the World Anti-Doping Agency commission in order to avoid a ban

:18:02. > :18:04.from competitions like the Olympics. An independent report earlier this

:18:05. > :18:06.week accused Russia The International Association

:18:07. > :18:12.of Athletics Federations, know as the IAAF, will make

:18:13. > :18:15.a final decision later today. Here's a quick reminder

:18:16. > :18:24.about how we got here. It has the effect,

:18:25. > :19:14.unlike other forms of corruption, of actually affecting

:19:15. > :19:18.the results, on the field of play. Athletes both in Russia and

:19:19. > :19:26.abroad are suffering, as a result. Shocked at the level and depth

:19:27. > :20:10.and the audacity, really, that people thought they could get

:20:11. > :20:13.away with this and that they had got The damage that has been

:20:14. > :20:19.done to athletics by this. I really do think that

:20:20. > :20:24.action has to be taken. For 2016, our recommendation is that

:20:25. > :20:41.the Russian Federation be suspended. To create a sport that is

:20:42. > :20:47.responsive, responsible, accountable, transparent and one

:20:48. > :21:23.that is predominantly and only in We are just hearing that Russia says

:21:24. > :21:27.it is ready to carry out an investigation into the allegations.

:21:28. > :21:34.With independent organisations. The sports minister was quoted by the

:21:35. > :21:37.Interfax news agency. He is also quoted as calling the allegations

:21:38. > :21:40.absurd, saying the international Russian Olympics committees will

:21:41. > :21:41.make a joint statement on the doping scandal later.

:21:42. > :21:43.So how should the IAAF punish Russia?

:21:44. > :21:47.What else needs to happen to clean up the athletics image and what does

:21:48. > :21:51.We can speak now to Eilish McColgan, a Team GB Olympic steeplechaser

:21:52. > :21:55.Joining us from Sweden is Professor Arne Ljungvist,

:21:56. > :21:58.a former Vice Chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

:21:59. > :22:01.Dave Collins, a sports psychologist and former Director of UK Athletics,

:22:02. > :22:09.Peter Eriksson is former performance director of UK Athletics

:22:10. > :22:11.and joins us from Canada, where he's now head coach

:22:12. > :22:16.Joining us here in the studio are Diane Modahl,

:22:17. > :22:19.who won 800 metres Commonwealth gold, competed in four Olympics and

:22:20. > :22:22.was banned, and then cleared, of being a drugs cheat back in 1994.

:22:23. > :22:25.And Jody and Bayo Furlong, two brothers who run a blog

:22:26. > :22:37.Professor, first, you warned, back in 2008 about concerns of what was

:22:38. > :22:44.happening in Russia, what happened then? Yes, I did.

:22:45. > :22:56.Just before the Beijing games they were identified by IAAF as having a

:22:57. > :23:02.problem in the Russian athletics gains. Just before the Beijing

:23:03. > :23:03.games, the IAAF found that a number of athletes had actually manipulated

:23:04. > :23:10.there you are in -- Querin. We held a press conference. Where I

:23:11. > :23:24.was asked about the matter. This is a fact that has been

:23:25. > :23:29.recorded. Everyone knows it. Did you believe, back then... It was not the

:23:30. > :23:34.first time. Did you believe that it was the state-sponsored doping that

:23:35. > :23:39.was being discussed? If you did, was it not properly looked into?

:23:40. > :23:47.No, I didn't say that, I didn't have any opinion on that matter, I only

:23:48. > :23:48.commented on a sign of something of an organised doping going on in that

:23:49. > :23:59.particular group of people. Where and who organised it, I doubt

:24:00. > :24:05.know. But, it seemed to me, as an organised affair. Because it covered

:24:06. > :24:09.so many athletes and they never came to Beijing, there were six or seven.

:24:10. > :24:15.It is not terribly different from the story we have seen in recent

:24:16. > :24:18.days. By hearing that, people will think why on earth did it take so

:24:19. > :24:25.long for everyone to get a grip on it? 2015, seven years later.

:24:26. > :24:33.Possibly. When I spoke to a colleague a few days ago, he did not

:24:34. > :24:43.seem to be aware all remember the story that happened in 2008. But,

:24:44. > :24:48.it's did and this is a fact. How do you explain it? Did people just not

:24:49. > :24:55.have the appetite? The will, were they looking the other way? I don't

:24:56. > :25:00.know, honestly. It was for the Russians to look into and I hope

:25:01. > :25:06.they did. But now a news story comes up. This is not the first time. I

:25:07. > :25:11.doubt know in what way it was organised and by whom, no idea. This

:25:12. > :25:14.was apparently never looked into by the Russians, which is of course

:25:15. > :25:20.those who have the first obligation to look into it. Eilish, hearing

:25:21. > :25:25.that, how do you feel about the fact that someone so senior was first

:25:26. > :25:27.flagging this up in 2008 and in 2012, you feel about the fact that

:25:28. > :25:30.someone so senior was first flagging this up in 2008 and in 2012 EU who

:25:31. > :25:37.won your event and were subsequently found guilty of doping? It is

:25:38. > :25:43.disappointing but not particularly surprising. A lot of the athletes

:25:44. > :25:50.competing now had their suspicions and have had suspicions for a long

:25:51. > :25:57.time. It is positive... Not positive that it is coming out, but the more

:25:58. > :26:01.that we can, sort of, get these athletes and get them out of the

:26:02. > :26:06.sport, the better. It is just a shame that it has taken seven years

:26:07. > :26:13.to get to this stage. But, as I say, this is a really positive thing,

:26:14. > :26:16.moving forward. You are trying for Rio 2016, how do you feel about

:26:17. > :26:25.competing against Russian athletes there? It is strange. If you had

:26:26. > :26:29.asked me yesterday. I would think, actually, it's unfair to ban the

:26:30. > :26:33.whole country. Obviously, I would assume that not everyone is a doping

:26:34. > :26:38.athlete and there will be some clean athletes. But after being subjected

:26:39. > :26:43.to a random drugs test last might at 11pm and having to your innate in a

:26:44. > :26:53.cup in front of a random stranger, it has changed my opinion. --

:26:54. > :26:57.urinate. If it was standard across every nation I would not have a

:26:58. > :27:00.problem. A clean athlete, it is unfair, you are doing everything

:27:01. > :27:05.right and you're following the protocol, to hear that 1400 samples

:27:06. > :27:11.are getting tossed aside, it is a bit frustrating. I am in two minds

:27:12. > :27:15.of how I feel about competing against Russia next year. The only

:27:16. > :27:21.thing I can do is focus on myself. Do the best that I can possibly do.

:27:22. > :27:26.Professor Dave Collins, former director of UK athletics, you have

:27:27. > :27:30.sympathy for Eilish, do you think the Russian athletes should be at

:27:31. > :27:36.Rio next year or not? Eilish's position is entirely understandable.

:27:37. > :27:41.The performance director 2005-2008, I know that the athletes I had the

:27:42. > :27:46.pleasure of leading were also suffering from these concerns, some

:27:47. > :27:53.of them. The problem is that it is not just Russia. It is a lot of

:27:54. > :27:58.other countries. It is not just athletics, it is a lot of other

:27:59. > :28:02.sports. When you ask the very good question, if we knew about this, why

:28:03. > :28:07.didn't we do anything, there has to be a lot of strong political will.

:28:08. > :28:12.Maybe legal problems notwithstanding, maybe we need to

:28:13. > :28:15.get to a situation where wider cannot only test and detect these

:28:16. > :28:21.things but they can also prosecute them, -- Wada instead of handing

:28:22. > :28:26.them over to a national federation. And say, sweet at your own stables.

:28:27. > :28:30.Diane, you were banned and then cleared, does that make it even more

:28:31. > :28:34.angry when you hear that athletes who are doping have been getting

:28:35. > :28:36.away with it like this? I think we have to move away from this shock

:28:37. > :28:46.and horror approach. We have always had our suspicions,

:28:47. > :28:53.we've always known that times that athletes run have been a little bit

:28:54. > :28:59.dubious. What this gives us, now, is an opportunity to look at how do we

:29:00. > :29:03.change that? Is its devastating for athletics and sport generally?

:29:04. > :29:08.Absolutely. Is it surprising? Of course it isn't surprising. But the

:29:09. > :29:17.level at which it was happening? Not particularly. In my experience, when

:29:18. > :29:21.your back is against the wall and you're being accused of something

:29:22. > :29:26.that you know isn't true, depending on whatever side you are on, you

:29:27. > :29:29.will dig your heels in. That conversation you have been having

:29:30. > :29:35.with Arne doesn't surprise me either. It is what we were saying

:29:36. > :29:39.almost 20 years ago. Doping isn't about an individual athlete, it is

:29:40. > :29:46.not about a coach, it is not about individuals. It is actually starting

:29:47. > :29:51.at the top. This gives us an opportunity to follow the evidence.

:29:52. > :29:55.That is key. Follow the evidence to see if it is happening at a

:29:56. > :30:00.strategic level. That's where the sanctions have got to hit and hit

:30:01. > :30:05.hard. You are super fans in the studio, you are not surprised? As

:30:06. > :30:09.fans, things have changed a lot in the last ten years through

:30:10. > :30:12.technology. We know more now than we used to. We would sit at home

:30:13. > :30:17.shouting at the TV before, but now you have Twitter and blogs and

:30:18. > :30:22.various ways that people can talk. We know what goes on. If a report

:30:23. > :30:26.comes out, we can read it. You used to get excerpts in the newspaper. I

:30:27. > :30:33.have friends who have read the 500 page report from Mo Farah's coach.

:30:34. > :30:39.They corrected journalists online. We know a lot more than we used to.

:30:40. > :30:45.We pick up on little things that aren't necessarily in the media. We

:30:46. > :30:51.are a platform to voice our opinions about things. I'm not surprised by

:30:52. > :30:58.Russia in slightest. The only thing that surprises me is it has, cried.

:30:59. > :31:03.I could have told you about it ten years ago. Warning about it is not

:31:04. > :31:10.good enough. You have to do something. We know more about the

:31:11. > :31:14.sport than any so-called experts, coaches, because we live and breathe

:31:15. > :31:26.it, we watch at night and day. I could name countless athletes we

:31:27. > :31:32.know are on drugs. You suspect? It is not suspicion. When you are in a

:31:33. > :31:37.position of authority you have to prove stuff. We are not in that

:31:38. > :31:44.position. Have the authority is not handled this correctly until now?

:31:45. > :31:49.How do they earn the trust of people like the fans in the studio and

:31:50. > :31:56.everybody else who is a fan and is competing in it, to? The authorities

:31:57. > :32:04.have handled it in accordance with the limitations of the rules in

:32:05. > :32:12.place. But they have the power to do something, don't they? Yes, but

:32:13. > :32:18.there are rules that should be followed when you exercise that

:32:19. > :32:27.power. They do not even implement the rules they have got. The rules

:32:28. > :32:32.are there. The rules are astringent. But are the rules being followed?

:32:33. > :32:36.There is no real will from those in authority, from those who could

:32:37. > :32:42.carry out and demonstrate those responsible sanctions and actions

:32:43. > :32:45.that never happened in the past. It is not really good enough or strong

:32:46. > :32:52.enough to save the rules are there and we need to follow them. Action

:32:53. > :32:55.needs to take place. You get the impression that people in authority

:32:56. > :33:00.do not want to publicise that there is a problem. It is best to cover it

:33:01. > :33:04.up and sweep it under the carpet, so the sport does not get damaged. The

:33:05. > :33:09.sport needs to get damaged in order for it to get better. How do you see

:33:10. > :33:23.this, Peter Collins? I think a lot of things have gone wrong. The lack

:33:24. > :33:27.of will to change is a problem. We can say that incompetence is a

:33:28. > :33:31.problem on all levels and the source of the symptoms as well. Economics

:33:32. > :33:39.is another issue that is part of this problem. And apathy as well.

:33:40. > :33:49.Different things play into the whole scenario. That is the sad part of

:33:50. > :33:52.it. We can ban Russia as much as we want, but first and foremost we have

:33:53. > :33:57.to look at all of the victims that were robbed of medals in the

:33:58. > :34:03.previous games, and that is important to set right. Eilish

:34:04. > :34:09.McColgan, final thought from you. Can this be put right going forward?

:34:10. > :34:17.Yes, I think it can. I love the sport and I would hope that it is

:34:18. > :34:20.going to move forward. We are the ones competing in it, living and

:34:21. > :34:29.breathing it each day. The only unfortunate thing is that the fans

:34:30. > :34:32.are disappointed as well. They want to see a clean sport and they want

:34:33. > :34:36.to know that what they are watching is a level playing field. That is

:34:37. > :34:42.what I want. I want to know that we are all equal and we are on a fair

:34:43. > :34:47.playing field. It is important to say that we are all having a go at

:34:48. > :34:52.athletics today. But athletics is one of the sports that does at least

:34:53. > :34:58.try. The reason athletics gets a bad rap is because they try to catch

:34:59. > :35:02.people and do catch people. Football, rugby, any other sport, if

:35:03. > :35:07.they got tested as much as catholic -- athletics does, they would be

:35:08. > :35:13.much worse. Athletics is at least trying. Thank

:35:14. > :35:17.you very much. Peter says if the Russians get away with this, nobody

:35:18. > :35:25.will trust another governing body again. Denial led to this in the

:35:26. > :35:29.first place. And other text. Russian athletes should be banned from

:35:30. > :35:33.international competition for a minimum of ten years. It is obvious

:35:34. > :35:37.this has been going on for years, cheating other athlete out of

:35:38. > :35:40.medals. Lawrence has said it would be a shame and disgrace if Russia is

:35:41. > :35:46.allowed to take part in the Olympic Games, a slap in the face to those

:35:47. > :35:51.who did not take drugs. Start by dumping Russia for at least ten

:35:52. > :35:56.years. Another here says Russia should be banned from Rio. If not,

:35:57. > :36:00.it is a farce. And Frank has treated to say that Russia are ready to

:36:01. > :36:02.investigate themselves. A token slap on the wrist will follow. Keep your

:36:03. > :36:03.thoughts coming in. The Government is putting more money

:36:04. > :36:07.into training and equipment to prevent stillbirths, but is it

:36:08. > :36:10.enough? Now, it's one

:36:11. > :36:12.of the most controversial therapies offered by the NHS and now

:36:13. > :36:18.ministers are considering whether to ban from homeopathy from the list

:36:19. > :36:21.of treatments GPs can prescribe. The NHS spends about ?4 million

:36:22. > :36:23.on homeopathy at the moment but what's the evidence

:36:24. > :36:26.about whether or not it works? James Gallagher is

:36:27. > :36:44.our health correspondent. We are also joined by Simon Singh

:36:45. > :36:53.and Doctor Peter Fisher. James, talk us through, first of all, what is

:36:54. > :37:01.homoeopathy? The idea is that like treats like. We have got an example

:37:02. > :37:06.on the table. I bought this in a high street pharmacist. It is

:37:07. > :37:11.arnica. It is a plant which, if you were to ingested, would damage the

:37:12. > :37:15.body. This will explain some of the differences between a herbal and

:37:16. > :37:22.homoeopathic remedy. The plant is used in some herbal remedies. Here

:37:23. > :37:27.it goes through special treatment to make it homoeopathic. You take one

:37:28. > :37:34.part of arnica and you add to it 99 parts of water or alcohol. You die

:37:35. > :37:45.looted. Again and again and again and again. The more you die looted,

:37:46. > :37:46.the more powerful the effect. The more die looted it is, the stronger

:37:47. > :38:02.the effect. -- deluded. The argument is that the end product

:38:03. > :38:08.is nothing but a sugar pill. That it flies in the face of conventional

:38:09. > :38:12.science. What is the evidence? There have been countless studies looking

:38:13. > :38:18.at this. There are criticisms of many. MPs have looked at this.

:38:19. > :38:22.Earlier this year the Australian government looked at this and

:38:23. > :38:25.reached the overall conclusion that there is no good evidence that says

:38:26. > :38:33.that homoeopathy works. One of the big confusing factors is the placebo

:38:34. > :38:36.effect. If I did give you sugar pills for something, you would

:38:37. > :38:41.probably see some kind of benefit. We see this around all kinds of

:38:42. > :38:47.things. If you have painkillers, we know that people respond better to a

:38:48. > :38:52.brand of painkillers than in non-brand of painkillers. It is down

:38:53. > :39:00.to placebo effect. The big question around homoeopathic is whether it

:39:01. > :39:04.does have a placebo effect. The NHS spends a significant amount of money

:39:05. > :39:07.on it every year but in the great scheme of things it is a drop in the

:39:08. > :39:12.ocean. Why are they looking at it now? Well, it is. You have

:39:13. > :39:18.homoeopathic hospitals as well. That is where a lot of the money is

:39:19. > :39:22.going. If you look at GP prescriptions, it is only about

:39:23. > :39:26.?110,000 per year that is spent on prescribing it out of a GP surgery.

:39:27. > :39:32.There are some drugs that cost ?90,000 for one patient a year. When

:39:33. > :39:36.you start comparing the finances, you can argue that this is a drop in

:39:37. > :39:41.the ocean. However, this is a lot more about ideology of what the NHS

:39:42. > :39:46.should be paying for and whether it is based on evidence. That is what

:39:47. > :39:50.George Freeman, the life sciences minister, is saying. These are tight

:39:51. > :39:54.times, we need to look at what the NHS is spending money on. Make sure

:39:55. > :39:59.it's spending money on things that prove effective. Simon Singh, you

:40:00. > :40:06.think homoeopathy should not be on the NHS. Why not? Your face was a

:40:07. > :40:14.treat when James explained that the more you deluded, the more powerful

:40:15. > :40:20.it becomes. It is untrue. It is not a principle of homoeopathy. He is

:40:21. > :40:25.not saying it gets stronger. That is the first I have heard. The bottom

:40:26. > :40:30.line is it does not work. The best available evidence, if you talk to

:40:31. > :40:33.the Chief Medical Officer, if you talk to academics, they will say

:40:34. > :40:39.homoeopathy does not work. For me it is simply a case of, with limited

:40:40. > :40:42.resources, should the NHS be wasting money on drugs that do not work when

:40:43. > :40:46.they could be spending that money on drugs, therapies, Massaat is,

:40:47. > :40:54.operations, nurses, which do really work? James made a good point about

:40:55. > :40:57.the placebo effect. Placebo effects, with every treatment. I

:40:58. > :41:02.could give you something that helps with your hay fever and has a

:41:03. > :41:05.placebo effect on top, or I could short-change you and give you a

:41:06. > :41:10.sugar pill that only has a placebo effect. It is sensible to only spend

:41:11. > :41:17.money on treatment that works. Homoeopathy needs to be on the

:41:18. > :41:24.blacklist. Doctor Peter Fisher, you prescribe homoeopathy. Wide? Because

:41:25. > :41:27.it works. What happens if you add homoeopathy into general practice?

:41:28. > :41:33.That is the question on the debate. It is very clear. There have been a

:41:34. > :41:37.number of studies totalling around 10,000 patients, mostly done in

:41:38. > :41:41.France and Germany, where a large number of GPs use homoeopathy, and

:41:42. > :41:45.what you find is consistently, unanimously, all of these studies

:41:46. > :41:47.have shown that GPs to integrate homoeopathy into their practice get

:41:48. > :41:52.better results either just in terms of the patient getting better

:41:53. > :41:59.quicker, her the patient uses less drugs. For instance, # as many

:42:00. > :42:06.sleeping tablets. Dame Sally Davies has spoken about homoeopathy and has

:42:07. > :42:13.said she is perpetually surprised it is prescribed on the NHS. She says

:42:14. > :42:17.people who prescribed homoeopathy are peddlers. I think that is

:42:18. > :42:22.outrageous. We were colleagues many years ago Central Middlesex

:42:23. > :42:30.Hospital. I do not think that is correct at all. The most recent

:42:31. > :42:38.review of clinical trials of homoeopathy came to a clear positive

:42:39. > :42:41.conclusion. It is not a placebo. The second really important issue here

:42:42. > :42:49.is that lots of people spend money on homoeopathy privately. Why?

:42:50. > :42:55.Because the NHS funds it. If the NHS funds it, they assume it must be

:42:56. > :42:59.effective. There are parents who spend money on homoeopathy for their

:43:00. > :43:08.children. There are homoeopathic to go to West Africa to try to treat a

:43:09. > :43:14.bowler. -- Ebola. What the NHS does is the tip of the iceberg. It gives

:43:15. > :43:20.credibility to a whole industry, which I know Professor Fisher

:43:21. > :43:25.condemns as well. That is the other issue we need to sort out. Looking

:43:26. > :43:28.at papers that have been published. One statistic quoted by the British

:43:29. > :43:35.homoeopathic association is that until the end of 2014, 104 papers

:43:36. > :43:42.were published on 61 different medical conditions under strict

:43:43. > :43:48.controls. 41% reported, on balance, there was positive evidence. 5%,

:43:49. > :43:53.negative. 54% were not conclusive. It does seem to get the balance in

:43:54. > :43:58.the positive camp? That is the Christine Keeler effect. They would

:43:59. > :44:03.say that, wouldn't they? It is about the quality of studies. Two studies

:44:04. > :44:08.have independent controls? Are they randomised? Do they have large group

:44:09. > :44:12.samples? Doctors and research is look at a pool of data. The

:44:13. > :44:17.Australian government did it earlier this year. You apply criteria. You

:44:18. > :44:22.say, these are good studies, these are misleading studies. When you

:44:23. > :44:29.apply those criteria, there is nothing there for homoeopathy. That

:44:30. > :44:35.issue was addressed by a study at the University of Glasgow. They

:44:36. > :44:39.prioritised them. The conclusions remain the same for the highest

:44:40. > :44:42.quality as the not so highest quality. If homoeopathy is

:44:43. > :44:45.effective, you and they and everybody else would win a Nobel

:44:46. > :44:50.Prize and I would be the first one applauding you but I can guarantee

:44:51. > :44:54.you it does not work. Charles has tweeted to say homoeopathy works on

:44:55. > :45:01.animals. The placebo argument is a nonstarter. Science is a

:45:02. > :45:05.tremendously open-minded enterprise. It will look at the weirdest ideas

:45:06. > :45:12.like black holes and dark matter. To me that is unbelievable. But science

:45:13. > :45:13.is open-minded. Sainz consults research studies. -- science

:45:14. > :45:28.conducts research studies. What is research studies. -- science

:45:29. > :45:32.happening is that owners of pets will want their pets to improve.

:45:33. > :45:36.They will look for signs of improvement. They are kidding

:45:37. > :45:40.themselves, I'm afraid. A very brief final thought Peter. If you cannot

:45:41. > :45:46.prescribe homoeopathy on the NHS, what impact would that have? It

:45:47. > :45:52.would have a negative effect. Homoeopathic medicines are quite

:45:53. > :45:56.cheap. The people exempt from prescription fees, retired people,

:45:57. > :46:02.unemployed people, children, it will make a big difference.

:46:03. > :46:06.Thank you for your comments, keep them coming.

:46:07. > :46:17.Fairly lively to the course of this morning. Courtesy of the first named

:46:18. > :46:23.storm of the season, Abigail moving north-east reaching its peak. The

:46:24. > :46:28.isobars in this chart, it will still be fairly windy. It will be replaced

:46:29. > :46:35.by this former hurricane Kate. It will be windy. Rain will potentially

:46:36. > :46:42.be a problem. We have seen lots of rain this morning, some showers have

:46:43. > :46:45.been quite squally. Gusty winds. They are moving east. Snow across

:46:46. > :46:50.the hills and mountains of Scotland and snow in northern England in the

:46:51. > :46:54.hills and mountains and Northern Ireland. Fairly transient. In

:46:55. > :46:59.between the showers, some dry spells and sunshine. The status quo

:47:00. > :47:04.prevails in the afternoon in Scotland, the winds slowly

:47:05. > :47:09.moderating. Colder across the board than lately. Northern England, hefty

:47:10. > :47:14.showers, some could be thundery. Interspersed with bright skies and

:47:15. > :47:18.sunshine. Still, showers peppering Northern Ireland and much of England

:47:19. > :47:25.and Wales. It will be a blustery afternoon. Feeling colder than it

:47:26. > :47:29.has in the last few weeks. Evening and overnight, the winds continued

:47:30. > :47:34.to ease. They will pick up for a time during the night. A lot of

:47:35. > :47:38.showers and dry weather. You can see what is waiting coming our way,

:47:39. > :47:43.compared to recent nights, it will be a fairly cold one in prospect.

:47:44. > :47:49.Saturday, this is the remnants of the hurricane Kate. Tropical air

:47:50. > :47:55.embedded in it. Higher temperatures. A lot of rain.

:47:56. > :47:58.Northern Scotland staying driest. Sunday, we will still have this

:47:59. > :48:04.rain. We will see an exceptional amount of rain. Across the Pennines

:48:05. > :48:11.and Snowdonia and even lower levels, 20-40 millimetres. One inch and a

:48:12. > :48:16.half. Could lead to localised flooding is with rivers. Stay choose

:48:17. > :48:18.to the weather forecast. -- stay tuned.

:48:19. > :48:20.Hello, it's just after 10am, it's Friday 13th.

:48:21. > :48:23.I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

:48:24. > :48:25.If you've just joined us, coming up before 11am:

:48:26. > :48:28.Has so-called Jihadi John being killed by US forces in Syria?

:48:29. > :48:36.We'll be live in Washington and Downing Street for the very latest.

:48:37. > :48:41.Killed, that would really be quite a crushing blow in terms of symbolic

:48:42. > :48:53.We are live at Bristol Crown Court as Nathan man Matthews and Shauna

:48:54. > :48:59.Hoare sentenced for killing Becky Watts.

:49:00. > :49:05.Is it necessary to have a university degree to become a police officer?

:49:06. > :49:14.The Islamic State killer Jihadi John is targeted by a US air strike

:49:15. > :49:17.and sources say there's a "high degree of certainty" that

:49:18. > :49:20.He appeared in beheading videos of Western hostages, the nephew of

:49:21. > :49:23.Alan Henning, one of those murdered, has given the first family reaction.

:49:24. > :49:26.He said he'd wanted the "coward behind the mask to suffer,

:49:27. > :49:32.The government sells off more of the Northern Rock Bank,

:49:33. > :49:34.chancellor George Osborne says it's sold ?13 billion worth

:49:35. > :49:36.of its mortgages to a private investment company.

:49:37. > :49:38.Northern Rock's collapse and nationalisation in 2008 marked

:49:39. > :49:41.the start of the UK financial crisis but the government's now sold

:49:42. > :49:49.The couple who killed Becky Watts will be sentenced today at

:49:50. > :50:00.Earlier this week, a jury took less than four hours to find 28-year-old

:50:01. > :50:03.Nathan Matthews guilty of his step sister's murder and 21-year-old

:50:04. > :50:06.The teenager was suffocated and her body dismembered in February.

:50:07. > :50:15.It was a sexually motivated kidnap plot. Decades of army backed rule in

:50:16. > :50:18.Burma are to come to an end. With a resounding victory by former

:50:19. > :50:21.political prisoner Aung San Suu Kyi. Her party's majority in parliament

:50:22. > :50:24.was confirmed, five years to the day after she was finally released

:50:25. > :50:31.from house arrest. Lunch with the queen for Indian

:50:32. > :50:34.Prime Minister Narendra Modi today, then he'll address a mass crowd

:50:35. > :50:36.at Wembley Stadium His visit to the UK has seen Britain

:50:37. > :50:42.and India have announced a series of trade deals worth

:50:43. > :50:44.around ?10 billion. There've also been

:50:45. > :50:46.human rights protests. The first storm to be named in

:50:47. > :50:50.the UK has been causing disruption Abigail has seen gusts of more than

:50:51. > :50:54.80 miles per hour in the Orkney and Western Isles and hundreds were

:50:55. > :50:57.left without power overnight. It's the first storm to be named in

:50:58. > :51:00.the UK. Gusts of 80 miles an hour. And Radio Two presenter Dermot

:51:01. > :51:02.O'Leary will be stepping into Sir Terry Wogan's shoes

:51:03. > :51:04.for tonight's Children in Need. Sir Terry's missing

:51:05. > :51:06.the fundraiser for the first time Let's catch up with all the sport

:51:07. > :51:10.now. As we have been discussing, a big

:51:11. > :51:15.day for Russian athletics. You've been talking

:51:16. > :51:17.about it already this morning, Russia will find out later today

:51:18. > :51:20.what sanctions the IAAF will impose, following the World Anti Doping

:51:21. > :51:22.Agency report earlier this week. That report, you'll remember,

:51:23. > :51:24.accused Russia of Russia's athletics federation

:51:25. > :51:30.submitted its response last night to the IAAF ahead of the

:51:31. > :51:34.governing body's final decision. The Russian Sports Minister has been

:51:35. > :51:37.quoted as saying they may create a new anti-doping agency to address

:51:38. > :51:40.concerns and that they are Of course, one option the IAAF may

:51:41. > :51:46.consider is banning Russian athletes The British 400 metre runner Martyn

:51:47. > :52:00.Rooney thinks that would be unfair. I'm sympathetic to the clean

:52:01. > :52:04.athletes. Identical leave every athlete in Russia is on drugs, they

:52:05. > :52:08.have very talented athletes in Russia. It would be very unfair,

:52:09. > :52:13.guys going for an Olympic medal having the opportunity taken away in

:52:14. > :52:17.a very short career. I have sympathy for those guys. There needs to be

:52:18. > :52:22.some kind of strong message from the IAAF. It will be a tough decision,

:52:23. > :52:27.whoever has to make it. If they ban everyone, it is not fair on the

:52:28. > :52:29.people who have toiled and put their body through everything, just do

:52:30. > :52:30.have that opportunity taken away from them.

:52:31. > :52:31.Some of the candidates have already ruled

:52:32. > :52:35.themselves out of the job, but Jake White has told the BBC that he would

:52:36. > :52:38.take the role of England rugby union head coach if he was offered it.

:52:39. > :52:40.The South African, who won the World Cup with

:52:41. > :52:44.South Africa in 2007, says he could do the same with England if he's

:52:45. > :52:47.White is currently coaching Montpelier, but is the bookmakers'

:52:48. > :52:56.England, Wales and Northern Ireland all play

:52:57. > :53:01.With their qualifications for next year's European

:53:02. > :53:03.Championships already assured, it's a chance for managers to try

:53:04. > :53:07.But the stakes are much higher for the Republic of Ireland,

:53:08. > :53:10.Martin O Neill's side play the first-leg of their play off against

:53:11. > :53:15.Bosnia-Herzegovina tonight to try and earn their place at Euro 2016.

:53:16. > :53:16.Radio 5live commentator Conor McNamara is

:53:17. > :53:21.It's a huge game for Martin O'Neill's men, is there

:53:22. > :53:34.There is. If you look back, in six months, the Republic of Ireland

:53:35. > :53:39.would have been delighted to get to these play-offs. Now they are here,

:53:40. > :53:43.nothing to lose. Having been to Euro 2012, there is a hunger for the

:53:44. > :53:46.Irish players and supporters. To join England and Wales and Northern

:53:47. > :53:52.Ireland and get to that... INTERFERENCE Republic of Ireland

:53:53. > :53:57.have some absentees, Shane Long injured, scoring the goal in the

:53:58. > :54:01.recent win against Germany. Jon Walters is suspended. So is John

:54:02. > :54:04.O'Shea. Shay Given injured. The spine of the team is missing, not

:54:05. > :54:08.great months for Irish injuries with the rugby World Cup and Paul

:54:09. > :54:14.O'Connell and Jonny Sexton. Terry Wogan missing out on Children in

:54:15. > :54:19.Need with a back injury. Hopefully some injury doubts will be back in

:54:20. > :54:24.shape when it comes back to Dublin on Monday. INTERFERENCE we have

:54:25. > :54:28.coverage on the BBC radio. If you offered Martin O'Neill... Sorry

:54:29. > :54:30.about the technological problems. Well they'll be hoping for better

:54:31. > :54:33.weather conditions in Bosnia than there were in Argentina last night

:54:34. > :54:35.when heavy rain in Buenos Aires forced the cancellation of the

:54:36. > :54:38.match between Argentina and Brazil. The pitch was waterlogged and there

:54:39. > :54:43.were problems across the city. The World Cup qualifier will

:54:44. > :54:45.now be played tonight. So you can't escape the lashings

:54:46. > :54:48.of Storm Abigail, I will be back at 10:30am. Thank

:54:49. > :54:59.you. We're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:55:00. > :55:08.Channel until 11am this morning. Lots of you getting in touch about

:55:09. > :55:14.our conversation before the news and sport on homoeopathy. Penny texted

:55:15. > :55:17.to say my 18-month-old son had numerous courses of antibiotics.

:55:18. > :55:22.After homoeopathic treatment, we didn't see a doctor for two years,

:55:23. > :55:25.the placebo effect on a toddler? A tweet from Lorraine, I have

:55:26. > :55:29.successfully used homoeopathic remedies on animals and they do not

:55:30. > :55:33.understand the placebo effect. Richard e-mails, I am tired of

:55:34. > :55:36.hearing these arrogant attacks on homoeopathy which ignore the

:55:37. > :55:39.experience of many people including myself and the historical record

:55:40. > :55:46.which shows natural remedies have been affected ever since man walked

:55:47. > :55:48.the earth. Even now, conventional medicine is looking at the natural

:55:49. > :55:50.world for remedies because laboratory produced medications are

:55:51. > :55:54.overprescribed and becoming less effective. Matt has tweeted, as a GP

:55:55. > :55:58.I would not advocate prescribing something which has no scientific

:55:59. > :56:02.basis or evidence to support it. Sean on Facebook, should be banned

:56:03. > :56:03.from the NHS, absolutely no scientific merit. Thank you for your

:56:04. > :56:04.comments. As always,

:56:05. > :56:06.your contributions to this programme Texts will be charged

:56:07. > :56:10.at the standard network rate. Don't forget, you can watch

:56:11. > :56:12.the programme online wherever you are, via the BBC news app or

:56:13. > :56:15.our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria. And you can also subscribe to all

:56:16. > :56:18.our features on the news app, by going to add topics and

:56:19. > :56:37.searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'". Mohammed Emwazi, the Kuwait it born

:56:38. > :56:40.British militant appeared many of the hostage beheading videos by the

:56:41. > :56:43.group known as Isis and became notorious for his London accent and

:56:44. > :56:47.wearing a black robe with a balaclava covering his face.

:56:48. > :56:50.The US Pentagon says it has targeted him in a drone strike near Raqqa in

:56:51. > :56:53.Syria and, according to a senior military source, there is a 'high

:56:54. > :57:23.But who was Jihadi John and how did he end up as a jihadi?

:57:24. > :57:29.If there were changes, they happens later. Certainly, if there was

:57:30. > :57:32.anything going on while he was in school, they had no knowledge or

:57:33. > :58:35.idea that was happening, if it was happening.

:58:36. > :58:38.In the last few minutes the nephew of Alan Henning, a British aid

:58:39. > :58:40.worker who was killed by IS in Syria has tweeted.

:58:41. > :58:43.He said: "Mixed feelings today wanted the coward behind the mask to

:58:44. > :58:46.suffer the way Alan and his friends did but also glad it's been

:58:47. > :58:50.David Cameron is due to speak about this later and Downing Street has

:58:51. > :58:52.issued a brief statement this morning.

:58:53. > :58:56.We have been working hand in glove with the Americans to defeat ISIL

:58:57. > :58:58.and to hunt down those murdering hostages.

:58:59. > :59:00.The Prime Minister has said before that tracking down these brutal

:59:01. > :59:05.Our correspondent Gary O'Donoghue is here with the reaction to this news

:59:06. > :59:08.Our political correspondent Chris Mason is in Downing Street

:59:09. > :59:16.where the Prime Minister will later make a statement.

:59:17. > :59:22.Gary, what have you heard about this operation?

:59:23. > :59:28.The details are starting to become clearer, now. It happened after dark

:59:29. > :59:36.on Thursday evening, local time in Syria. We know the Americans, the

:59:37. > :59:41.coalition have been shacking Jihadi John, Mohammed Emwazi, for some time

:59:42. > :59:47.-- have been tracking. They targeted him in Raqqa. We think there were

:59:48. > :59:52.one or two, possibly more people, in that vehicle and it was hit. I was

:59:53. > :59:56.told it was a direct hit, a great strike, as one individual put it to

:59:57. > :00:00.me. They believe there was a high degree of certainty he was killed.

:00:01. > :00:05.Officially, they are saying, look, we will assess the operation to see

:00:06. > :00:09.what was achieved. They won't go as far, formally, to say they

:00:10. > :00:15.definitely killed him. Now, the process is to verify that and they

:00:16. > :00:19.do that by talking to human intelligence sources on the ground.

:00:20. > :00:23.Spies they have. They monitor text messages, e-mails, phone calls,

:00:24. > :00:26.those kinds of things, to verify this fact before they can be

:00:27. > :00:32.absolutely certain. That is the state of things at the moment. The

:00:33. > :00:36.speed of which they came out and said they thought they killed him,

:00:37. > :00:40.and that they were pretty certain about it is an indication of their

:00:41. > :00:43.confidence. Having said that, in the past, they have claimed to have

:00:44. > :00:47.killed people who have popped up elsewhere.

:00:48. > :00:55.If he has been killed, how much of a clue would that be for America? This

:00:56. > :01:00.would be a major coup for both Washington and London. Not

:01:01. > :01:07.particularly because he was a senior figure in the military structure of

:01:08. > :01:10.IS. But he represented the whole propaganda, the sophisticated

:01:11. > :01:16.propaganda successes that IS had delivered during the past year or

:01:17. > :01:21.more. He featured strongly, of course, everybody remembers, in

:01:22. > :01:29.those videos, those chilling videos that bounced around the world and

:01:30. > :01:32.horrified many countries, most countries, but also acted as a

:01:33. > :01:37.recruiting Sergeant for many Islamic militants who came to Syria as a

:01:38. > :01:40.result of seeing them. It will be a significant coup in the propaganda

:01:41. > :01:44.war. Chris, what reaction from Downing

:01:45. > :01:49.Street? We are expecting a statement from

:01:50. > :01:55.the Prime Minister shortly. In a statement issued by text earlier

:01:56. > :01:58.this morning, number Number ten emphasising that the UK and

:01:59. > :02:03.Washington have been working hand in glove in tracking down those enemies

:02:04. > :02:09.within Isil over the past few months. You will remember that a

:02:10. > :02:15.year ago we heard of those horrendous videos emerging out of

:02:16. > :02:21.Syria regarding Mohammed Emwazi's acts. The UK and Washington have

:02:22. > :02:28.been working very closely trying to track him down ever since.

:02:29. > :02:32.Symbolically it would be a huge moment if this death was confirmed.

:02:33. > :02:36.The fact we are expecting to hear from the Prime Minister on camera

:02:37. > :02:41.shortly gives us some sense of how credible this appears to be, and how

:02:42. > :02:45.they seem to have amassed as much evidence as is feasible at this

:02:46. > :02:50.stage, to be as certain as they can that they have killed him. The fact

:02:51. > :02:54.that the Prime Minister is coming out so quickly after the reports

:02:55. > :03:02.emerged, a sign of how important they see this in Downing Street?

:03:03. > :03:05.Absolutely. They regard this as a hugely important moment. They say

:03:06. > :03:10.they helping keeping an eye on what has been going on for months. They

:03:11. > :03:13.have been working very closely with the United States to try to ensure

:03:14. > :03:20.they could track down and keep an eye on the movements of Mohammed

:03:21. > :03:24.Emwazi, from a propaganda perspective for Islamic state, he

:03:25. > :03:30.has been hugely important. A face that has been seen around the world

:03:31. > :03:34.in those videos. Because there he was with a British accent appearing

:03:35. > :03:37.in the deserts of Syria, particularly with those British

:03:38. > :03:42.hostages prior to their death when they were looking so horrendously

:03:43. > :03:47.and understandably scared, if there is news confirming his death, and it

:03:48. > :03:51.would appear that both America and London are pretty confident that,

:03:52. > :03:57.then yes, that would be a huge moment. We are expecting a statement

:03:58. > :04:00.pretty soon. Perhaps as soon as ten minutes. When Downing Street says

:04:01. > :04:05.the UK has been working hand in glove with the US, is it clear if

:04:06. > :04:10.there was any British involvement in this operation directly? We do not

:04:11. > :04:17.know yet, is the honest answer. We simply do not know exactly who was

:04:18. > :04:20.involved, other than to say that Downing Street emphasised they have

:04:21. > :04:26.been working very closely over the past few months in keeping an eye on

:04:27. > :04:33.him and tracking others within the so-called Islamic State. The news

:04:34. > :04:40.overnight from military sources was emerging out of Washington, which

:04:41. > :04:43.suggests at this stage it was a US-led drone attack. Perhaps we will

:04:44. > :04:48.get further information from the Prime Minister. We do expect to hear

:04:49. > :04:53.in the next ten minutes from him. Thank you both.

:04:54. > :04:57.There's a suggestion this morning that police recruits should have

:04:58. > :05:07.A drive to cut the number of stillbirths and deaths

:05:08. > :05:11.among new babies by half over the next 15 years, has been launched.

:05:12. > :05:14.One in every 200 babies is stillborn - and the government wants to reduce

:05:15. > :05:17.those numbers, as well as the amount of neonatal deaths, maternal deaths

:05:18. > :05:20.and brain injuries that occur during or soon after birth by 20%

:05:21. > :05:26.Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt is pledging an extra ?4 million of

:05:27. > :05:28.funding for hospitals in England, which works out at around ?25,000

:05:29. > :05:35.So how much of a difference will that actually make?

:05:36. > :05:38.We can talk now to Will Quince, Conservative MP for Colchester,

:05:39. > :05:45.And Emma Jones and Chris Goodger, whose son Tyler was stillborn

:05:46. > :06:02.Thank you for joining us. Emma and Chris, tell us what your experiences

:06:03. > :06:14.were? They were both very different. When we had Tyler he was born by

:06:15. > :06:19.surprise in May 2012. I just went into labour, normal. I was only 22

:06:20. > :06:28.weeks. He was born premature. He was stillborn. We came to terms with it.

:06:29. > :06:35.We had the funeral. And we dealt with it as a family. No

:06:36. > :06:44.bereavement, no counselling, anything like that. Then we were

:06:45. > :06:48.expecting our second son, Riley. But he also came along unexpectedly

:06:49. > :06:56.early. That was 22 weeks and four days. Terrible times. You have been

:06:57. > :07:02.campaigning for a change since. What things would have made a difference

:07:03. > :07:07.for you, particularly with Tyler? Well... More than anything I think

:07:08. > :07:12.it would have been the support from the hospitals. They were both seem

:07:13. > :07:16.very differently. Because Tyler was stillborn, there was nothing they

:07:17. > :07:23.could do to help after. Because I was at low risk. Once I had

:07:24. > :07:33.delivered him, he had already done. In terms of support? No bereavement

:07:34. > :07:38.support. Anything like that. It was, we are very sorry. Stay a few days

:07:39. > :07:46.with the baby and go home. So you had to go through the full labour?

:07:47. > :07:52.Yes, the full labour. A long labour. Money is being put into the system

:07:53. > :07:59.to try to improve things. What sort of things would you like to see

:08:00. > :08:03.money put into? As much as I know, I know it is being funded for England

:08:04. > :08:10.at the moment. With me coming from Wales, I'm hoping that this also

:08:11. > :08:16.happens within Wales. In Welsh hospitals. Yes. At the moment we

:08:17. > :08:21.would still be in the same rut. There are babies being left. I have

:08:22. > :08:30.a lot of friends who sadly went full term, which are met through an

:08:31. > :08:33.organisation. They said if there were more scans, if they were looked

:08:34. > :08:40.at more closely, if things were done quicker. More specialist care. Those

:08:41. > :08:47.deaths could have been avoided. Reds talk to will quince, an MP. I know

:08:48. > :08:50.that you had a stillborn son a year ago. Still very difficult for your

:08:51. > :08:58.family to go through that as well. Tell us what happened? Massively. If

:08:59. > :09:03.I could just say, my heart goes out to Emma and Chris because I do know

:09:04. > :09:08.how they feel. Our son Robert had a rare chromosomal disorder. He was

:09:09. > :09:16.stillborn at full term last year in October at Colchester General

:09:17. > :09:20.Hospital. Money is now being put into hospitals to try to reduce the

:09:21. > :09:25.number of stillborn children. It is ?4 million. That is ?25,000 for each

:09:26. > :09:30.hospital trust. Is it money that will make much of a difference? I

:09:31. > :09:34.think it will make a huge amount of difference. A lot of that money will

:09:35. > :09:37.be spent on training and monitoring equipment, especially in the later

:09:38. > :09:44.stages of pregnancy. But for me it is more of a focus. It is a focus on

:09:45. > :09:49.treatment but also on the stillbirth and neonatal death. It is absolutely

:09:50. > :09:54.shocking how badly we perform as a country against the Western world.

:09:55. > :09:57.It is an absolute focus. It is something we should have done a long

:09:58. > :10:02.time ago. I am proud of the Government has taken this initiative

:10:03. > :10:07.on. 5000 babies. We are talking about statistics but we are talking

:10:08. > :10:10.about babies, parents, families. Having gone through that experience,

:10:11. > :10:14.I can honestly tell you that I will never, ever forget what it feels

:10:15. > :10:19.like to see your wife gives birth to a lifeless baby. The doctor bringing

:10:20. > :10:25.over a stethoscope and put it to your baby's chest and shake his

:10:26. > :10:29.head. I don't want families to go through that process. Every single

:10:30. > :10:33.stillbirth and neonatal death is a tragedy. I am proud of this

:10:34. > :10:39.government is taking a stand and taking steps to address it and how

:10:40. > :10:43.that number by 2013 -- howls that number. At what stage did you know

:10:44. > :10:49.your child was going to be stillborn? We knew from about 22

:10:50. > :10:55.weeks that Robert had Edward syndrome, a condition described as

:10:56. > :10:59.not being compatible with life. Some children with that syndrome live for

:11:00. > :11:04.a few days, a few weeks, even a few years on some occasions. We did not

:11:05. > :11:07.know until labour itself at 41 weeks that Robert was going to be

:11:08. > :11:11.stillborn. It was only in the last few moments of pregnancy that we

:11:12. > :11:20.feared the worst. He was breached as well. Medically, could anything out

:11:21. > :11:24.have been done differently? If there had been more medical resources. It

:11:25. > :11:31.does not sound like it was a lack of resources in your case which was an

:11:32. > :11:34.issue? No, it wasn't. I have got to praise very highly Colchester

:11:35. > :11:38.General Hospital. The maternity unit is second to none. We had a

:11:39. > :11:43.specialist bereavement suite. One of the things I am campaigning for is a

:11:44. > :11:48.specialist treatment suite in every hospital. That should be a priority.

:11:49. > :11:52.Part of the problem is the level of care is patchy across the NHS in

:11:53. > :11:57.England. Some hospitals do it absolutely brilliantly. And sadly in

:11:58. > :12:00.others it is not done well enough. Getting that consistent level of

:12:01. > :12:04.care is the priority of the Government. I'm so proud of the

:12:05. > :12:09.Government. This is the proudest moment I have had in my six months

:12:10. > :12:15.as an MP. Emma and Chris, listening to will, how do you feel? Firstly, I

:12:16. > :12:25.just do want to say how sorry I am for what happened. I can understand

:12:26. > :12:31.the pain. I can. And even though our son, wryly, was born, he actually

:12:32. > :12:36.managed to live with us for 92 minutes, even being premature. I can

:12:37. > :12:41.understand the pain that you went through. I am very sorry. I agree

:12:42. > :12:49.with you. This is absolutely fantastic. Too many babies do die.

:12:50. > :12:57.And some of them can be saved and some of them do not have too. I

:12:58. > :13:05.understand there are low-risk pregnancies. But they can always

:13:06. > :13:10.turn into high risk within minutes. People need to be watched a lot more

:13:11. > :13:15.than what they are. And overly hope that after this being announced

:13:16. > :13:20.today in England, I'm hoping it comes to Wales, so we also can

:13:21. > :13:26.benefit from the change as well. I really do. On a personal note, you

:13:27. > :13:30.have been through heartache, terrible times, trying to have a

:13:31. > :13:36.baby. Your mum is now going to be a surrogate, is that right? Yes, at

:13:37. > :13:40.the moment we have been through -- to a few hospital appointments. And

:13:41. > :13:50.my body, sadly, in between both boys I also suffered two miscarriages. My

:13:51. > :13:59.womb can no longer hold a pregnancy no more. So the option for us is

:14:00. > :14:04.surrogacy. And my mother is the main person for us. She is my best

:14:05. > :14:08.friend. She wants to give us something we really want, which is a

:14:09. > :14:15.baby. We are going down that road at the moment. Good luck. I hope so.

:14:16. > :14:17.Thank you very much. Thank you, Emma and Chris. And well. Thank you all

:14:18. > :14:18.very much. Let's go live to Bristol Crown Court

:14:19. > :14:21.now where sentencing has begun in Our correspondent

:14:22. > :14:32.Andrew Plant is there. What is happening? We are told there

:14:33. > :14:35.is a very different atmosphere to Wednesday here at Bristol Crown

:14:36. > :14:39.Court. Less formal in some ways. There are a limited number of seats.

:14:40. > :14:44.The judge has allowed a lot of people who want to be there to go in

:14:45. > :14:49.and stand, which is an unusual move. We are told there are some 40

:14:50. > :14:53.members of Becky Watts's family and friends inside wearing T-shirts with

:14:54. > :14:56.her face on. In the past couple of minutes we have had a victim impact

:14:57. > :15:03.statement read out on behalf of Becky's father. He has said that

:15:04. > :15:07.Becky is now known as Bristol's angel. He has said that they will

:15:08. > :15:11.never understand why this has happened. He called it a plot grown

:15:12. > :15:17.out of hatred and said they had suffered searing pain and anguish.

:15:18. > :15:20.He also added that they, repairing -- referring to Nathan Matthews and

:15:21. > :15:27.Shauna Hoare, had sat in his home and watched his descent into hell

:15:28. > :15:34.and madness without any remorse. How long will send an single on for edge

:15:35. > :15:41.-- sentencing go on for Q macro bearing in mind Becky went missing

:15:42. > :15:46.nine months ago, and very quickly police arrested her stepbrother and

:15:47. > :15:51.his girlfriend. It took nine months to get to court. We heard 21 days of

:15:52. > :15:55.evidence. Everybody thought it would take the jury quite a long time to

:15:56. > :15:59.reach their conclusion. On Wednesday they came back with a guilty

:16:00. > :16:03.verdict. Very quick. We think today there will be a little slower. They

:16:04. > :16:07.have to read out the impact statements in court and will go

:16:08. > :16:08.through the sentencing. Sentencing Nathan Matthews for murder and

:16:09. > :16:19.Shauna Hoare for manslaughter. David Cameron is commenting on the

:16:20. > :16:23.targeted strike on Jihadi John in Downing Street. Good morning, last

:16:24. > :16:31.night the United States carried out an air strike in Raqqa, Syria,

:16:32. > :16:36.targeting Mohammed Emwazi, known as Jihadi John. We cannot yet be

:16:37. > :16:42.certain if the strike was successful. But, let me be clear,

:16:43. > :16:46.I've always said we would do whatever was necessary, whatever it

:16:47. > :16:52.took, to track down Mohammed Emwazi and stop him taking the lives of

:16:53. > :16:57.others. We've been working with the United States, literally around the

:16:58. > :17:02.clock, to track him down. This was a combined effort. The contribution

:17:03. > :17:10.both our countries was essential. Mohammed Emwazi is a barbaric,

:17:11. > :17:13.murderer. He was shown in this sick videos of beheading a British aid

:17:14. > :17:18.workers. He posed an ongoing and serious threat to innocent civilians

:17:19. > :17:23.not only in Syria but around the world. And in the United Kingdom. He

:17:24. > :17:29.was I still was mad lead executioner. Let us never forget

:17:30. > :17:35.that he killed many, many Muslims. He was intent on murdering many more

:17:36. > :17:41.people. This was an act of self defence. It was the right thing to

:17:42. > :17:46.do. Today, I want to thank the United States, the United Kingdom

:17:47. > :17:51.has no better friend or ally. I want to pay tribute to all those

:17:52. > :17:54.professionals in our own security and intelligence agencies and Armed

:17:55. > :18:00.Forces, for the extraordinary work they do on behalf of our country. On

:18:01. > :18:03.this, as so often, they have been working hand in glove with their

:18:04. > :18:10.American colleagues. We are proud of them. If this strike was successful,

:18:11. > :18:18.and we still await confirmation of that, it would be a strike at the

:18:19. > :18:23.heart of Isil and it would demonstrate to those who want to do

:18:24. > :18:28.harm to Britain, we have a long reach, unwavering determination and

:18:29. > :18:34.we never forget about our citizens. The threat Isil posed continues,

:18:35. > :18:38.Britain and our allies will not rest until we've defeated this evil,

:18:39. > :18:43.terrorist death cult and the poisonous ideology on which it

:18:44. > :18:49.feeds. Today, though, my thoughts and the folds of our country are

:18:50. > :18:53.with the families of those who are Brittany murder -- our thoughts and

:18:54. > :19:02.the thoughts. The Japanese citizens, the American journalist

:19:03. > :19:10.and the American aid worker. And our own citizens, aid workers David

:19:11. > :19:15.Haynes and Alun hemming. Nothing will bring back David and Allen.

:19:16. > :19:20.Their courage and selflessness stand in stark contrast to the empty

:19:21. > :19:24.callousness of their murderers. Their friends and their families

:19:25. > :19:28.should be proud of them. As we are. They were the best of British. They

:19:29. > :19:30.will be remembered, long after the murderers of Isil our forgotten.

:19:31. > :19:40.Thank you. STUDIO: A brief statement from the

:19:41. > :19:47.Prime Minister, David Cameron on the targeted air strike on so-called

:19:48. > :19:52.Jihadi John, Mohammed Emwazi in Syria, no confirmation yet that he

:19:53. > :20:00.was certainly killed in the attack. The United States is speaking

:20:01. > :20:08.confidently about the strike but Downing Street says was... Will

:20:09. > :20:12.demonstrate the UK has a long reach and unwavering determination. And

:20:13. > :20:15.the UK will never forget its citizens. Let's go to Chris Mason in

:20:16. > :20:21.Downing Street, listening to the Prime Minister. Your thoughts?

:20:22. > :20:26.It was pretty striking the prime investor was keen to come out and

:20:27. > :20:30.give this statement as quickly as he did, after that news emerged from

:20:31. > :20:34.Washington overnight and he chose to do it here in the street behind the

:20:35. > :20:39.Downing Street lectin. It gives you some sense of the gravity of this

:20:40. > :20:45.moment. As Downing Street sees it. The commonest emphasised at the top

:20:46. > :20:50.of that statement, they haven't got complete confirmation -- the Prime

:20:51. > :20:54.Minister emphasised. His willingness to give the statement in the street

:20:55. > :20:58.behind the lactone so quickly after the news emerged that as far as they

:20:59. > :21:02.can tell, with the best information they have at this stage, they are

:21:03. > :21:09.pretty confident they have got their man. We also learned about the

:21:10. > :21:15.detail of the working relationship between the US and the UK in going

:21:16. > :21:21.after Mohammed Emwazi. And how significant a figure they felt he

:21:22. > :21:26.was in the propaganda war that Isil have fought around the world with

:21:27. > :21:31.those horrendous execution videos. How central he was, particularly

:21:32. > :21:33.given with his British accent, he was able to project himself as

:21:34. > :21:39.someone who had travelled from the west into the heart of Isil and was

:21:40. > :21:45.able to terrorise, via those videos. So many around the world.

:21:46. > :21:48.Particularly with those hostages, British hostages and others from

:21:49. > :21:57.around the world who were killed on camera. Thanks. Let's bring you

:21:58. > :22:01.up-to-date. David Cameron says self-styled Islamic State killer,

:22:02. > :22:06.so-called Jihadi John was targeted by drones in Syria as an act of

:22:07. > :22:11.self-defence. The Prime Minister has said the UK has been working hand in

:22:12. > :22:13.glove with the Americans to track down and stop Mohammed Emwazi who

:22:14. > :22:17.appeared in hostage beheading videos. He said he posed an ongoing

:22:18. > :22:22.threat. Sources say there's

:22:23. > :22:24.a 'high degree of certainty' that The government has sold off more

:22:25. > :22:31.of the Northern Rock Bank, chancellor George Osborne says ?13

:22:32. > :22:32.billion worth of its mortgages have been bought

:22:33. > :22:35.by a private investment company. Northern Rock's collapse marked

:22:36. > :22:38.the start of the UK financial crisis but the government's now sold

:22:39. > :22:40.around 85% of its assets. The couple who killed Becky Watts

:22:41. > :22:43.are sentenced today at Earlier this week a jury took less

:22:44. > :22:47.than four hours to find 28-year-old Nathan Matthews guilty

:22:48. > :22:50.of his step sister's murder and his 21-year-old girlfriend, Shauna

:22:51. > :22:53.Hoare, guilty of manslaughter. The teenager was killed

:22:54. > :22:55.in a sexually-motivated kidnap plot Schools have been closed,

:22:56. > :23:02.ferries cancelled and power supplies cut as Storm Abigail hits northern

:23:03. > :23:04.Scotland and the western isles. It's the first storm to be named

:23:05. > :23:08.in the UK, there've been windy Let's catch up with all

:23:09. > :23:18.the sport now and join Hugh. A quick reminder of the sport

:23:19. > :23:20.headlines this morning, we'll find out later today what sanctions will

:23:21. > :23:23.be imposed on Russian athletics following the World Anti Doping

:23:24. > :23:25.report. The Russian Sports Minister has been

:23:26. > :23:27.quoted as saying his country may create a new anti

:23:28. > :23:31.doping agency to address concerns. The Montpellier coach

:23:32. > :23:33.and former head of South African rugby Jake White says he could win

:23:34. > :23:37.the World Cup with England if he was given the chance to replace

:23:38. > :23:41.Stuart Lancaster as Head Coach. The Republic of Ireland face

:23:42. > :23:43.Bosnia Herzegovina this evening in the first leg

:23:44. > :23:46.of their Euro 2016 play off. Martin O Neill's men will be hoping

:23:47. > :23:48.to join England, Northern Ireland and Wales

:23:49. > :23:51.at next year's Championships. And Andy Murray has avoided

:23:52. > :23:54.Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer in the group stage of the

:23:55. > :23:56.ATP World Tour Finals. But he'll come up against

:23:57. > :23:59.Rafael Nadal in the opening stages I've got more sport on BBC

:24:00. > :24:05.News throughout the day including all the build-up to

:24:06. > :24:06.tonight's international football. Remember Ireland's Euro 2016

:24:07. > :24:09.play-off is live from 7pm this Terry Wogan has been forced to pull

:24:10. > :24:24.out of tonight's Children in Need It's the first time he'll have

:24:25. > :24:28.missed presenting the programme Children in Need has raised more

:24:29. > :24:36.than ?790 million for children and young people across the UK

:24:37. > :24:38.since its launch, helping countless she was just amazing in every way,

:24:39. > :24:52.she was such a blessing. She was very sociable,

:24:53. > :24:54.very outgoing, had lots of friends. As you can see,

:24:55. > :24:58.it's very pink and this is because I had it painted when I was six years

:24:59. > :25:02.old and I wanted to be This is my favourite teddy, Snoozy,

:25:03. > :25:06.who I have had I just thought she was cute so I

:25:07. > :25:12.slept with her every night. In January of 2012, when Lauren was

:25:13. > :25:21.12, Lauren had an ongoing headache, After her scan, we were brought

:25:22. > :25:32.back to our local hospital. We were given the devastating news

:25:33. > :25:45.that Lauren had a brain tumour. The first brain surgery

:25:46. > :25:48.was successful. After her second surgery,

:25:49. > :25:53.unfortunately, she developed every complication

:25:54. > :25:55.and she went into a coma and we But it was the power

:25:56. > :26:15.of prayer that pulled her through. She has a lot to cope with

:26:16. > :26:21.on a day-to-day basis. I feel so lucky to have her

:26:22. > :26:25.in my life. This was my proton mask,

:26:26. > :26:40.when I was having radiotherapy Here it is is now,

:26:41. > :26:47.it is now a lampshade. People think it's quite creepy,

:26:48. > :26:49.but it's quite relaxing. Lauren, come on,

:26:50. > :26:59.it's time to get ready to go. Children in Need have helped us

:27:00. > :27:08.in every way. We have been very lucky to

:27:09. > :27:11.have been offered therapy Lauren is so relaxed after her

:27:12. > :27:17.therapy session, she sleeps Lauren has been very isolated,

:27:18. > :27:24.due to her illness. Without Children in Need funding

:27:25. > :27:26.Action Cancer, Lauren and myself would not be able to have

:27:27. > :27:37.this cherished time that we have. That's Lauren's story,

:27:38. > :27:57.she was helped by Action Cancer. And Children In Need is on BBC One

:27:58. > :27:59.tonight from 7:30pm. Should new police officers

:28:00. > :28:02.have university degrees? At the moment, it's up to individual

:28:03. > :28:05.forces in England and Wales to decide what level of

:28:06. > :28:09.education their new recruits need. But the College of Policing,

:28:10. > :28:14.which sets police training standards, says maybe the job

:28:15. > :28:16.requires degree-level education. It is consulting on the plans,

:28:17. > :28:19.which if approved could run as a pilot in 2017 and be adopted across

:28:20. > :28:22.all 43 forces two years later. Joining us are

:28:23. > :28:24.Chief Constable Alex Marshall, Chief Exec of the College of

:28:25. > :28:27.Policing, Steve White Chair of the Police Federation which represents

:28:28. > :28:42.officers and Mike Pannett, who was Thank you for joining us. Chief

:28:43. > :28:50.Constable Alex Marshall, your thoughts? We have looked at the role

:28:51. > :28:54.police officers now perform. And how it has changed very substantially in

:28:55. > :28:59.recent years. They are dealing with far more convex issues, online

:29:00. > :29:02.crime, much more about public protection, child abuse

:29:03. > :29:06.investigations, domestic abuse. They are also dealing with aspects of

:29:07. > :29:10.financial fraud and international issues. And the changes to the

:29:11. > :29:14.criminal law and criminal justice procedures. We have said the current

:29:15. > :29:17.workforce deserve recognition for working at that high level and

:29:18. > :29:21.showed, at least, beaver organised in the same way as other similar

:29:22. > :29:26.professions. -- be recognised. If they want to pursue a degree based

:29:27. > :29:29.on prior learning they have already got in the police. The nature of

:29:30. > :29:32.police work and how it has changed over the years and how it is likely

:29:33. > :29:36.to change over the next few years, we are saying the next generation of

:29:37. > :29:39.people coming into policing should start with a practical police

:29:40. > :29:44.degree, before they go out on the streets. We think this is important

:29:45. > :29:47.for the public to know there is a national standard across the country

:29:48. > :29:52.and that police officers arrive with that formal qualification. Does that

:29:53. > :29:56.send out a message, though, that you are not confident in the ability of

:29:57. > :30:02.police, without degrees to do the job? As I said, my starting point is

:30:03. > :30:08.that the current workforce has shifted amazingly to all the new

:30:09. > :30:10.demands in policing, the changes in forensics, technology and online

:30:11. > :30:15.investigation and public protection and working with other agencies. The

:30:16. > :30:19.training and skills they have acquired over recent years deserve

:30:20. > :30:22.recognition. We are talking to universities, to save will they

:30:23. > :30:27.accredit Matt prior learning and where an officer wants to, will they

:30:28. > :30:30.be able to pursue a degree in policing and achieve that level of

:30:31. > :30:34.recognition? Then we look to the future and save that is the way

:30:35. > :30:39.policing is changing, as well as the good things that we look for in a

:30:40. > :30:42.police officer, good values, the ability to communicate, understand

:30:43. > :30:45.local communities, be able to solve problems and have empathy, in

:30:46. > :30:49.addition, we think they should come in with a very practical police

:30:50. > :30:52.degree in the same way you would expect a social worker or a

:30:53. > :30:57.probation officer or a nurse to have done.

:30:58. > :31:03.Steve White, you represent rank and file officers.

:31:04. > :31:10.What do you think about this? There is a lot of stuff I agree with in

:31:11. > :31:13.terms of the skills and training police officers get during their

:31:14. > :31:19.career. Do not have an issue with that. I have had messages from many

:31:20. > :31:23.officers this morning who are turned off by the idea. We have to be

:31:24. > :31:27.really careful. The police services is under huge pressure. Police

:31:28. > :31:30.officers are responding magnificently. We have clear

:31:31. > :31:35.evidence that demonstrates you do not need to have a degree, excepting

:31:36. > :31:39.that officers are operating at that level. To simply say that further

:31:40. > :31:43.down the line we expect you to pay for your own training before you

:31:44. > :31:48.even get considered to come into the police service, is going to be very

:31:49. > :31:53.difficult, I think. You will end up with large swathes of people who are

:31:54. > :31:58.unable to apply to the service who could make excellent police

:31:59. > :32:02.officers. Yes, it is great when you come across a fight on the high

:32:03. > :32:05.Street to understand the social, demographic and economic reasons

:32:06. > :32:10.behind why they are fighting. But you need people who can intervene,

:32:11. > :32:16.deal with the fight, arrest people and domesticated. We have to be

:32:17. > :32:20.careful confusing and academic degree, perhaps in criminology, that

:32:21. > :32:24.might give you that better understanding, with a practical

:32:25. > :32:28.police degree. If you look at what nurses do, they spend 50% of their

:32:29. > :32:33.time undertaking their degree on the ward working alongside experienced

:32:34. > :32:37.nurses and getting practical skills. Four police officers we want not

:32:38. > :32:40.only the compassion and empathy and ability to communicate well, we also

:32:41. > :32:46.need them to have a Raly good knowledge and skill level around the

:32:47. > :32:50.legal aspects -- really good knowledge... How to do an online

:32:51. > :32:54.investigation, as well as those practical issues. We ask an awful

:32:55. > :33:00.lot from the people who work in policing. So my first point is, give

:33:01. > :33:04.recognition to the people with those skills already and let them have the

:33:05. > :33:08.qualification if that is what they want to pursue. Let's be realistic

:33:09. > :33:12.about the future. The next generation, more of them will have

:33:13. > :33:16.degrees than not. To say it will make us less representative is

:33:17. > :33:20.tricky. We are not very representative at the moment. It may

:33:21. > :33:25.well be that we are seen as a more attractive career. I not dismissing

:33:26. > :33:30.what Steve says. By the way, the fight that he talks and people

:33:31. > :33:33.understanding the social and economic factors, that will also

:33:34. > :33:40.become an online investigation when three people tweet about it, two

:33:41. > :33:46.people film it on their mobile phone. It is not the pub fight I was

:33:47. > :33:49.dealing with in 1980 other one my grandfather was dealing with when he

:33:50. > :33:58.was a policeman. Investigations are very different. But the point is you

:33:59. > :34:02.will still need people with the qualities you will be able to

:34:03. > :34:06.intervene and to deal with that. That does not necessarily mean at

:34:07. > :34:11.the outset you have a degree. Otherwise we are talking about a 2

:34:12. > :34:14.tier service. You will end up with highly qualified police officers at

:34:15. > :34:19.one end of the spectrum and some other form of officer at the other

:34:20. > :34:22.end. I do not think that is the police service we want. I do not

:34:23. > :34:28.think Alex is suggesting that. But you will lose a whole tranche of

:34:29. > :34:32.people who have good relative experience who can come into the

:34:33. > :34:36.service and gain qualifications when they are in the service. In relation

:34:37. > :34:43.to nursing, we have also seen some criticism recently about the level

:34:44. > :34:47.of nursing professionalism taking away the empathy and care in some

:34:48. > :34:50.cases, in terms of actually nursing the patient. I do not think we want

:34:51. > :34:55.to go down that route because policing is about doing it with the

:34:56. > :34:58.consent of communities, and we need to make sure they reflect the

:34:59. > :35:05.committees they serve. I'm not against people with degrees joining

:35:06. > :35:07.the police force. Absolutely not. Might pan out, you were in the

:35:08. > :35:16.police service for 20 years without a degree. -- might pan out. What is

:35:17. > :35:22.your view? The key things to being a police officer is integrity,

:35:23. > :35:30.courage, compassion, common-sense. You need a whole different set of

:35:31. > :35:33.skills to be a good police officer. I joined the police service and many

:35:34. > :35:38.other of the colleagues that I have worked with, outstanding colleagues,

:35:39. > :35:43.have managed to somehow carry out major investigations. They have been

:35:44. > :35:48.given commendations for both bravery, for criminal

:35:49. > :35:53.investigation. A whole raft of different things. Policing is a

:35:54. > :35:59.unique business. There is no sort of degree that you could ever possibly

:36:00. > :36:03.obtain. When you suddenly realise what being a police officer is

:36:04. > :36:08.like, there is nothing that can prepare you for that. We have a good

:36:09. > :36:11.two year probation period. At the end of that period, Alice Alex

:36:12. > :36:19.Marshall is alluding to, police officers should be rewarded with

:36:20. > :36:22.potentially a degree in policing. The fundamental problem we have here

:36:23. > :36:25.is, if you are turning around and saying that all people who want to

:36:26. > :36:31.join the police service in the future should have a degree, I think

:36:32. > :36:36.that is a fundamental mistake. No disrespect to somebody who has got a

:36:37. > :36:41.degree in zoology or music, what relevance that would have two being

:36:42. > :36:47.a police officer. Don't forget, look at a mother from a disadvantaged

:36:48. > :36:52.background, maybe 40 years of age, who can join the police service now

:36:53. > :36:56.and make a huge difference. Policing is all about how you deal with the

:36:57. > :37:00.situation. We did not drive around London when there were serious

:37:01. > :37:05.criminal acts taking place, we did not look around the police van and

:37:06. > :37:11.say, hang on, who has got a degree in catching that Fender? Do not

:37:12. > :37:14.disagree with Alex Marshall. Policing is a complicated business

:37:15. > :37:19.but you do not need to be a rocket scientist to be a good detective. It

:37:20. > :37:23.is about balance. It is about being a team. I was successful in my

:37:24. > :37:28.career. Colleagues and ex-colleagues have not had a degree have got heaps

:37:29. > :37:31.of commendations and have been outstanding police officers. We have

:37:32. > :37:35.got people from the military who wants to join the police. We cannot

:37:36. > :37:39.exclude people. It is about having the right people to do the job.

:37:40. > :37:47.Thank you for joining us and giving us your perspective. Let's go back

:37:48. > :37:56.to the targeted US drone strike on jihad John, as he has nicknamed.

:37:57. > :38:06.Mohammed Emwazi. -- G Hadi John. David Cameron has been speaking

:38:07. > :38:12.about that drone strike. We cannot yet be certain if the strike was

:38:13. > :38:18.successful. But let me be clear. I have always said that we would do

:38:19. > :38:24.whatever was necessary, whatever it took to track down Emwazi and to

:38:25. > :38:27.stop him taking the lives of others. We have been working with the United

:38:28. > :38:33.States, literally around the clock, to track him down. This was a

:38:34. > :38:38.combined effort and the contribution of both of our countries was

:38:39. > :38:42.essential. Emwazi is a barbaric murderer. He was shown in those

:38:43. > :38:46.sickening videos of the beheading of British aid workers. The pose an

:38:47. > :38:52.ongoing in serious threat to innocent civilians, not only in

:38:53. > :38:58.Syria, but around the world, and in the United Kingdom. He was Isil's

:38:59. > :39:04.leader executioner and let us never forget that he killed many Muslims

:39:05. > :39:09.too. He was intent on murdering many more people. So this was an act of

:39:10. > :39:21.self defence. It was the right thing to do. We can speak now to a

:39:22. > :39:24.journalist who spent time embedded with so-called Islamic State in Iraq

:39:25. > :39:33.and Syria and believes he met Jihadi John. Tell us about the occasion

:39:34. > :39:46.when you believe you met him? He was the boss of our IS command. He was

:39:47. > :39:52.the driver. The driver is usually somebody very important. He had

:39:53. > :40:01.always a big scarf around his face trying to hide his face. But his

:40:02. > :40:06.accent and his dialect, many other things, remembered as Jihadi John.

:40:07. > :40:10.When we came back and his cover was blown by British journalists, we had

:40:11. > :40:14.the opportunity to make a long research and it was very clear that

:40:15. > :40:22.it was Jihadi John. I had seen his face also wants in a restaurant in a

:40:23. > :40:32.place beside our restaurant. He was extremely angry because of that. He

:40:33. > :40:41.said I tried to spy him out. 99.9% we are sure this was Jihadi John.

:40:42. > :40:48.What was he like? Very unfriendly, very on polite, very rough. Trying

:40:49. > :40:55.to impose his will. We had disputes at the beginning because after one

:40:56. > :41:00.hour, even myself I had to shout at him and to tell him, you will not

:41:01. > :41:04.speak to me this way. He wanted to impose his will and he wanted to

:41:05. > :41:10.make the problem and say what we had to do. I did not accept that. He was

:41:11. > :41:17.the biggest problem of the whole trip. He was not flexible at all.

:41:18. > :41:25.Incredibly impolite and dangerous. He was threatening also my son. Not

:41:26. > :41:29.a good experience. I just want to get some reaction from former pro

:41:30. > :41:32.Minister Tony Blair, who is welcomed the report of the possible killing

:41:33. > :41:42.and reiterated support for increased UK military action against IS in

:41:43. > :41:46.Iraq and Syria. But he says it does not necessarily mean US -- UK ground

:41:47. > :41:52.troops are required. Just going back to what you were saying, Juergen,

:41:53. > :41:58.about how he tried to impose his will on the group that you were in.

:41:59. > :42:03.How much authority did he have? He has been described by many as having

:42:04. > :42:06.been a propaganda figurehead for external consumption, but not having

:42:07. > :42:11.had very much power necessarily within the organisation? That is

:42:12. > :42:19.correct. He did not have much power but he was the most powerful in our

:42:20. > :42:27.IS commando. He was a sober leader. He was the face, the covered face of

:42:28. > :42:37.the beheadings. In a certain way he was a star. But the British and the

:42:38. > :42:41.German guys in Raqqa played a very important role in the propaganda of

:42:42. > :42:49.IS. Propaganda is one of the most dangerous weapons of the IS. He

:42:50. > :42:53.played a quite important role but not so important. He was an

:42:54. > :43:02.executioner. He was the spokesman and questions concerning executions.

:43:03. > :43:05.But if you kill an executioner in the United States, you kill an

:43:06. > :43:15.executioner. The leaders are still there. I am not sure if IS considers

:43:16. > :43:21.this as a defeat. For them, if the message is confirmed, he will be a

:43:22. > :43:27.martyr. There were many rumours about his death before it was told

:43:28. > :43:36.that he was forced to go in exile. It was told that IS had killed him.

:43:37. > :43:41.There are always many rumours. Thank you very much for joining us.

:43:42. > :43:42.A journalist who is pretty sure he met Jihadi John.

:43:43. > :43:44.Victoria's back on Monday, when she'll look at calls to crack

:43:45. > :43:48.It comes as figures show the number of people being admitted

:43:49. > :43:51.to hospital after being attacked by corrosive substances has doubled

:43:52. > :44:04.MUSIC: Boombastic by Shaggy