20/11/2015

:00:00. > :00:09.I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme.

:00:10. > :00:12.Stopping jihadists from crossing the continent - emergency talks are

:00:13. > :00:15.being held as France says it's time for other European countries to wake

:00:16. > :00:23.We hear from the Parisians who say they now need time to mourn.

:00:24. > :00:31.I don't know how to live without being afraid of going out.

:00:32. > :00:35.I'm feeling a little bit better, but it was really,

:00:36. > :00:43.He just wanted to play football but was trafficked into prostitution.

:00:44. > :00:52.A former Premier League player tells us how he was duped.

:00:53. > :01:02.Because I was young and I was, like, small, so I was just screaming.

:01:03. > :01:05.Yeah, I know what I'm here. I know what I came over here for. They

:01:06. > :01:08.brought me here to play football. Adele's 25 is expected to be

:01:09. > :01:11.the best selling album of the year - why you won't be able to listen to

:01:12. > :01:21.it on music streaming services. Welcome to the programme,

:01:22. > :01:24.we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News As you'll know by now,

:01:25. > :01:28.your contributions to this programme are really welcome throughout

:01:29. > :01:30.the morning. Texts will be charged

:01:31. > :01:33.at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

:01:34. > :01:36.the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or

:01:37. > :01:40.our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria, and you can also subscribe to all

:01:41. > :01:44.our features on the news app by going to add topics

:01:45. > :01:49.and searching Victoria Derbyshire. A week on from the terror attacks

:01:50. > :01:52.in Paris, France's Interior Minister says Europe must wake up to

:01:53. > :01:56.terror threats. The Home Secretary, Theresa May, is

:01:57. > :01:59.joining her counterparts in Brussels today to discuss security measures -

:02:00. > :02:03.including moves to strengthen checks at external borders - after it

:02:04. > :02:06.emerged that some of those behind the attacks entered France

:02:07. > :02:10.undetected. Investigators are still looking for a key suspect,

:02:11. > :02:19.Salah Abdeslam, who escaped after The suspected ringleader, Abdelhamid

:02:20. > :02:21.Abaaoud, was killed in a raid It seems he was twice able to travel

:02:22. > :02:28.into and through the EU from Syria, despite being the subject

:02:29. > :02:29.of European Since the attacks on Paris

:02:30. > :02:36.the city has been in a state of Across the French capital,

:02:37. > :02:41.people have been taking part in vigils to commemorate those who

:02:42. > :02:44.lost their lives. Some Parisians spoke to us about how

:02:45. > :02:49.they feel people there are coping I don't know how to live without

:02:50. > :02:54.being afraid of going out But also I feel very happy that

:02:55. > :03:04.everyone seems to be so touched. I am feeling a little bit better

:03:05. > :03:12.but it was really, Now we can feel that the people

:03:13. > :03:23.are more calm and is now they are I am an au pair so I take care

:03:24. > :03:36.of children and trying to be positive and supportive around them

:03:37. > :03:39.when they understand to some degree Paris is known for a little bit

:03:40. > :04:18.of a stressful city and people are But now it feels like it is not the

:04:19. > :04:25.same, it is changing a little bit. People are sad and scared,

:04:26. > :04:29.they don't say it but we can feel You can feel the mood

:04:30. > :04:36.a little bit different. And they are angry, too,

:04:37. > :04:42.but Paris will always be Paris. It has been amazingly resilient

:04:43. > :04:47.in a way. It feels like heavy-hearted

:04:48. > :04:49.but still people are moving forward and stuff and being as positive I

:04:50. > :04:54.think as they can be. But it is understandable

:04:55. > :05:46.because the world wants to know what Let's bring you some breaking news

:05:47. > :05:50.from Mali. We are getting reports that Islamist gunmen have attacked a

:05:51. > :05:54.hotel in the capital, Bamako. Automatic weapons have fire has been

:05:55. > :05:59.heard inside the building. There are reports of hostages. The security

:06:00. > :06:03.forces have cordoned off the area. Mali has been plagued by an security

:06:04. > :06:07.since Islamist groups seized control of the North to years ago and

:06:08. > :06:11.attempted to take over the country. They were blocked by the

:06:12. > :06:22.intervention of French troops. We will keep you across the latest

:06:23. > :06:24.reports. We hear that potentially 170 people have been taken hostage

:06:25. > :06:27.in that hotel, around 30 members of staff and around 140 guests. Those

:06:28. > :06:32.are the official reports. It is reportedly a hotel popular with

:06:33. > :06:36.expats living and working in Mali. That is the latest as we have it, we

:06:37. > :06:39.will keep you updated as we get more details.

:06:40. > :06:41.Meanwhile, some Muslims living in the UK say they've experienced

:06:42. > :06:43.more physical or verbal abuse since the Paris attacks.

:06:44. > :06:46.Tell MAMA - a group which records anti-Muslim incidents says

:06:47. > :06:49.the number of reports they receive has DOUBLED in the last week.

:06:50. > :06:52.Humaira Mayet is a student in East London.

:06:53. > :06:55.She says there's been increased hostility in the last week - a view

:06:56. > :07:10.They are both here with me. Thank you for coming in. Tell us what you

:07:11. > :07:25.have experienced, Humaira? I found that, on the Chu, you get a lot of

:07:26. > :07:28.suspicious looks. -- on the Tube. I have not experienced physical

:07:29. > :07:32.assaults or outward verbal abuse, but of a train stops in the middle

:07:33. > :07:37.of a tunnel and the driver doesn't notify passengers immediately, you

:07:38. > :07:44.start getting aggressive looks thrown at you. Are you sure that

:07:45. > :07:49.is... And intentional thing that is being directed towards you? This

:07:50. > :07:51.didn't use to happen before, I felt very comfortable travelling on

:07:52. > :07:59.public transport before. Now I definitely feel that there is a

:08:00. > :08:01.suspicion. I know there has been an increase in the number of British

:08:02. > :08:10.Transport Police officers at stations. Whenever I walk past them,

:08:11. > :08:14.I suck in my breath and I am worried that I am going to get... Going to

:08:15. > :08:19.get questioned and searched. I shouldn't have too feel like that if

:08:20. > :08:23.I am in -- if I am innocent, I should be able to feel innocent in

:08:24. > :08:28.my own city. How does it make you feel when people look at you? Like

:08:29. > :08:34.an outsider, like I am being vilified for a crime that I didn't

:08:35. > :08:38.commit. What about you, Ayesha? Eyewitnesses airily echoed those

:08:39. > :08:43.views. I think, on a personal level, I haven't experienced any

:08:44. > :08:48.hostility, per se. I think there might be some apprehension, which is

:08:49. > :08:51.normal and natural. In fact, some family members who have been in

:08:52. > :08:56.central London, near Kingston, recently, they felt that people were

:08:57. > :09:00.trying to be nice to them. I think, as a community, we need to remember

:09:01. > :09:07.that we have human values that everyone celebrates. I think when

:09:08. > :09:11.traumas like this emerge, we get so embroiled in the finger-pointing but

:09:12. > :09:16.we forget to ask, why are we here? We need to keep that larger

:09:17. > :09:22.perspective in mind. The vital question is that Islamic extremism

:09:23. > :09:27.didn't rise in isolation. It has been, in large part, a product of

:09:28. > :09:32.our governments' policies and the way we have engaged in the Middle

:09:33. > :09:36.East. Moving forward, I think we need to rethink that engagement.

:09:37. > :09:41.Isis, which has been blamed for these attacks, it is largely

:09:42. > :09:47.documented that it has been a product of the Iraq war. When that

:09:48. > :09:53.argument is put forward, some people will say, that is making excuses for

:09:54. > :09:58.the actions of a group like Isis? I don't think it is making excuses, I

:09:59. > :10:06.think it is trying to delineate the situation. It is like giving two

:10:07. > :10:11.children or two toddlers guns. Isis, or extremists, do something.

:10:12. > :10:17.The day after the Paris attacks we heard that France was launching air

:10:18. > :10:21.strikes in Syria. That might be a popular response, but it might not

:10:22. > :10:26.be the most prudent. That is like giving two children guns. We are not

:10:27. > :10:29.blaming anyone, we're not trying to get broiled in these wars. What

:10:30. > :10:37.would you say the response should be to Isis? I think a biker issue is

:10:38. > :10:43.how we move forward, how we deal with this. I think a key issue is

:10:44. > :10:48.getting to the bottom of how these groups are actually funded. I think

:10:49. > :10:53.that is a vital concern. I don't see that much in the media at all. Is

:10:54. > :10:58.that not the sort of thing that governments are doing, and trying to

:10:59. > :11:03.work alongside communities to stop people being recruited? I don't

:11:04. > :11:09.think they are doing enough to cut the supply lines to terrorist

:11:10. > :11:13.organisations. In Britain, we make a lot of money out of the oil-rich

:11:14. > :11:17.Middle East, and we need to rethink our trading partners, maybe, and we

:11:18. > :11:22.need to get to the bottom of how these terrorist groups are funded. I

:11:23. > :11:31.sit in my personal capacity as the member of a minority group. We have

:11:32. > :11:34.been in the UK for a long time. Similar to Isis, which I think is

:11:35. > :11:40.interesting, Isis claims to have a caliphate and we also have a head of

:11:41. > :11:44.the community, but he has been spreading the message of love, peace

:11:45. > :11:51.and loyalty, he has been touring the world. He sits in England and gives

:11:52. > :11:54.a Friday sermon every Friday and he talks of these crucial notions of

:11:55. > :12:01.integrating into society peacefully. Does that need to be heard more

:12:02. > :12:08.widely? I think so. That can play a bigger part in helping us to be

:12:09. > :12:11.heard. Today, in a large mosque in Morden, there will be a special

:12:12. > :12:20.service this afternoon being held for Paris. It is called United We

:12:21. > :12:24.Stand, it is from 2pm to 3pm, just before Friday prayers. Members of

:12:25. > :12:28.all faith communities have been invited. From the 23rd of November

:12:29. > :12:33.we are planning to launch a campaign on London buses. It will play an

:12:34. > :12:36.advert for two weeks called United Against Extremism.

:12:37. > :12:39.And on Skype, Ameena Beake is from the Muslim Council of Britain

:12:40. > :12:52.What Is Your Perspective On What Is Happening After Paris? Good Morning.

:12:53. > :12:58.What has happened, and we wholly condemn all the violence in the

:12:59. > :13:03.world, and the thing that has happened in Paris is absolutely an

:13:04. > :13:09.act of pure evil, and has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, or with

:13:10. > :13:15.the 99.9% of Muslims who do live normal, peaceful Islamic lives. That

:13:16. > :13:23.is the first point we need to make. I think the hostile reactions that a

:13:24. > :13:29.fuel of the British public have made towards this offer lots of different

:13:30. > :13:38.reasons. I think that Isis are extremely clever. They are playing

:13:39. > :13:43.on our fear as, unfortunately, are certain sections of the media. What

:13:44. > :13:47.happens is you have a situation whereby the British public are wound

:13:48. > :13:52.up into a frenzy of fear, that will breed anger which will then breed

:13:53. > :13:56.hostility, when things like this happen. By doing this we almost

:13:57. > :14:02.playing into the hands of Isis and doing exactly what I want. Let's be

:14:03. > :14:09.very clear, Isis hate anybody who doesn't buy into their sick

:14:10. > :14:14.ideology. That is a fact. We have got to unite together as the British

:14:15. > :14:19.public, regardless of whatever religion background we are from, and

:14:20. > :14:23.work together against this. The main key to working together against this

:14:24. > :14:26.is by creating peace between ourselves and our communities,

:14:27. > :14:31.really pulling together in the time of crisis that we face. Humaira,

:14:32. > :14:35.what are your thoughts? You are sitting there feeling fearful,

:14:36. > :14:40.people are looking at you feeling fearful. What is the way to cut

:14:41. > :14:45.through? One thing that really irks me is the fact that people seem to

:14:46. > :14:49.think that because I am a Muslim I am somehow immune to being a victim

:14:50. > :14:52.of a terrorist attack. Isis Starr not discriminating when they are

:14:53. > :15:00.killing people in the West. I'm not immune to that bonds or bullets.

:15:01. > :15:04.They are killing eight -- killing indiscriminately, they want to kill

:15:05. > :15:08.anyone who does not believe that ideology, that is most Muslims. I am

:15:09. > :15:15.just as much at risk as anyone else is when it comes to a terrorist

:15:16. > :15:23.attack. Ameena? The sister is very right. We are all facing this

:15:24. > :15:28.negativity, and this almost threat. It is threatening to divide our

:15:29. > :15:34.society. What we need to look at is the logical side inside all of us,

:15:35. > :15:38.and that, you know, Muslims have been living in Britain and the West

:15:39. > :15:42.for a couple of hundred years now. We have not had any problems.

:15:43. > :15:46.Neighbours are living peacefully amongst each other. We will exchange

:15:47. > :15:50.gifts on Christmas and their TE Durcan is all the rest. We had to

:15:51. > :15:56.keep it that way and almost intensified this -- exchange gifts

:15:57. > :16:03.at Christmas and at Eid. The other lady was talking about the political

:16:04. > :16:09.side. The politic may have a part to play, but as a community we need to

:16:10. > :16:12.maybe put the politics on one side, on the grassroots level, and

:16:13. > :16:16.concentrate on the British values that we hold so dear, which is

:16:17. > :16:19.pulling together, supporting one another and trying to pull through

:16:20. > :16:25.this very difficult time. What is the best way to do that?

:16:26. > :16:31.I think communities really need to pull together socially, communities

:16:32. > :16:36.need to not be looking at each other with any kind of suspicion. It is

:16:37. > :16:42.very, very difficult to do, I think the media can help a huge amount in

:16:43. > :16:46.this, bringing people together, such as this programme today is doing.

:16:47. > :16:50.And making people understand may be that people who have not met Muslims

:16:51. > :16:54.in the past and do not have any connection with Muslims, to

:16:55. > :16:58.understand that Muslims are just normal people, we go about our

:16:59. > :17:03.normal business in the UK, you know, we have jobs, we have kids and all

:17:04. > :17:07.the rest of it. And we are active members of our society, just like

:17:08. > :17:12.other people are too. Really good to talk to you all this morning, thank

:17:13. > :17:13.you very much, and do let us know your thoughts, you know the usual

:17:14. > :17:23.ways of getting in touch. There are reports that gunmen have

:17:24. > :17:29.attacked the Radisson Blu hotel in Mali and are holding scores of

:17:30. > :17:33.hostages. Automatic weapons fire has been heard coming from the hotel in

:17:34. > :17:39.Bamako. It is understood security forces have set up a cordon and

:17:40. > :17:45.reports of 170 hostages inside that hotel. Mali has been plagued by

:17:46. > :17:48.insecurity since Islamist groups seized control of the North two

:17:49. > :17:52.years ago and attempt to take over the country. They were blocked by

:17:53. > :17:56.the intervention of French troops. We have received a statement from

:17:57. > :18:01.the hotel group which owns and operates the Radisson Blu in Bamako

:18:02. > :18:04.in Mali. It says, the group is aware of the hostagetaking that is ongoing

:18:05. > :18:09.at the property today, and according to its information, two people are

:18:10. > :18:16.blocked in 140 guests and 30 employees. There is no confirmation

:18:17. > :18:17.of any gunfire or any injuries or deaths so far, we will keep you

:18:18. > :18:27.updated. Theresa May has joined counterparts

:18:28. > :18:29.in Brussels to discuss toughening up European security and border

:18:30. > :18:33.controls following evidence that some of the terrorists entered

:18:34. > :18:39.France and detected or posing as Syrian refugees. Senior police

:18:40. > :18:41.chiefs say more budget cuts could affect the UK's ability to respond

:18:42. > :18:46.to an attack like Paris. A 28-year-old man is due to appear

:18:47. > :18:49.in court in Leicester today charged with murdering the teenager

:18:50. > :18:51.Kayleigh Haywood. Stephen Beadman has been charged

:18:52. > :19:03.with murder and one count of rape. The body was discovered on

:19:04. > :19:07.Wednesday. A group of MPs is calling for the criminal courts charge of up

:19:08. > :19:11.to ?1200, which is paid by defendants who are convicted, to be

:19:12. > :19:16.scrapped. Those who plead guilty at the start pay less. The MPs fear it

:19:17. > :19:17.encourages people to plead guilty regardless to avoid the risk of

:19:18. > :19:19.higher payments. In sport, England look set to

:19:20. > :19:22.appoint their first foreign head coach, as Eddie Jones steps closer

:19:23. > :19:25.to the top job in English rugby. The former South Africa and

:19:26. > :19:28.Australia coach, who led Japan at the recent World Cup, was in London

:19:29. > :19:30.yesterday putting the finishing Let's catch up with all the sport

:19:31. > :19:34.now and join Hugh, of Stuart Lancaster's successor

:19:35. > :19:39.as England rugby coach. Yes, the RFU have confirmed

:19:40. > :19:42.their first ever foreign coach, it's the Australian Eddie Jones

:19:43. > :19:45.who joins on a four-year deal RFU chief exec Ian Ritchie

:19:46. > :19:50.wanted international experience - he's got that,

:19:51. > :19:53.Jones was the losing coach when England won the World Cup

:19:54. > :19:55.back in 2003. Most recently, he was in charge

:19:56. > :19:58.of the Japan side which stunned South Africa

:19:59. > :20:00.at the World Cup. Jones himself will be speaking

:20:01. > :20:02.at a press conference later this afternoon, but in a statement

:20:03. > :20:05.he says he feels fortunate to take on possibly

:20:06. > :20:07.the world's most high-profile However, English rugby

:20:08. > :20:13.must now ask itself why Jake White, Michael Chieka,

:20:14. > :20:16.Warren Gatland, even Englishman Jim Mallinder were all so ready

:20:17. > :20:20.to rule themselves out of the job. Do England have the players

:20:21. > :20:21.to compete at the very elite level

:20:22. > :20:23.of the sport? Is there something wrong with

:20:24. > :20:26.the structure of English rugby? And in Eddie Jones,

:20:27. > :20:28.are they getting the right man, or just someone different after

:20:29. > :20:31.faith was lost in Stuart Lancaster? but Jones believes the future

:20:32. > :20:36.is bright for England. We'll talk about that

:20:37. > :20:50.in more detail just after ten, Thanks, see you later. Back to the

:20:51. > :20:57.breaking news that we have been bringing you of a hotel in Mali,

:20:58. > :21:03.where 170 people have been taken hostage, the Radisson Blu in Bamako,

:21:04. > :21:10.and the group that owns the Radisson Blu hotel has confirmed that a

:21:11. > :21:15.hostagetaking situation is ongoing there. You can see the image on your

:21:16. > :21:20.screen now, where the hotel is, 140 guests, 30 employees locked in by

:21:21. > :21:26.two people in that hostagetaking, according to the owners of the

:21:27. > :21:31.hotel. Reuters are actually reporting that ten gunmen are

:21:32. > :21:35.involved in this hostage situation. So clearly a fluid situation,

:21:36. > :21:39.reports just coming through. We will obviously check out those latest

:21:40. > :21:42.reports, but some discrepancy on the number of hostage-takers at the

:21:43. > :21:49.hotel, ten being reported by Reuters now. The hotel is telling us,

:21:50. > :21:52.though, that it cannot confirm that number. Also hearing via Reuters

:21:53. > :21:58.that several Chinese guests are among those trapped in the hotel,

:21:59. > :22:04.that is according to a Chinese news agency, Xinhua. A Chinese guest has

:22:05. > :22:07.told journalists he is among a number of Chinese guests trapped in

:22:08. > :22:15.the hotel. It is a hotel which is popular with expats working in

:22:16. > :22:20.Mali. It is an area that has had difficulties, so it is not an area

:22:21. > :22:27.popular with tourists, but this situation unfolding in that hotel,

:22:28. > :22:33.that Radisson Blu in Bamako in Mali, with 170 hostages reported to be

:22:34. > :22:39.locked into rooms by potentially up to ten hostage-takers, but we do not

:22:40. > :22:43.have confirmation as yet the specific numbers involved. We're not

:22:44. > :22:50.getting reports at this stage of gunshot or injuries, or any further

:22:51. > :22:52.casualties, so we will, of course, check out the latest and keep you

:22:53. > :22:55.updated. A former Premiership footballer

:22:56. > :22:57.has told this programme by a man who tried to force him

:22:58. > :23:00.into prostitution. Al Bangura,

:23:01. > :23:02.who's from Sierra Leone, was 14 when a French man

:23:03. > :23:05.offered to take him to the UK what happened when he arrived

:23:06. > :23:10.in Britain. This is basically like

:23:11. > :23:13.when I was young and my dad was at the head

:23:14. > :23:16.of a secret society. So basically

:23:17. > :23:24.when I get to the age of 14, that I need to join the secret

:23:25. > :23:33.society than my dad was in too. I said to my mum, I don't think

:23:34. > :23:36.this is something I want to get involved with, because basically,

:23:37. > :23:39.I don't live in the village, and all my life is living

:23:40. > :23:44.in the city. And you know what I'm doing,

:23:45. > :23:47.I want to play football. And I'm going to school so I don't

:23:48. > :23:50.want to get involved in that. I knew this French guy,

:23:51. > :23:55.and he promised to help me. But not knowing that he had

:23:56. > :23:59.another different intention, Well, to try to like...

:24:00. > :24:09.get me into this sex trade thing. So we travelled from Guinea

:24:10. > :24:13.to France, in France for like a day, and we

:24:14. > :24:17.came over him with the Eurostar. And obviously

:24:18. > :24:20.this is where it started. And we went to like a place,

:24:21. > :24:23.a building, I was there for like an hour,

:24:24. > :24:27.an hour and a half. So all of a sudden I saw two

:24:28. > :24:33.or three guys come around me, Yeah, because I was young and I was

:24:34. > :24:41.like small, I was just screaming. They probably thought

:24:42. > :24:46.I know what I am here for. Obviously, I did not know

:24:47. > :24:49.what I came over here for. Not knowing that he is

:24:50. > :24:52.probably here to play football. So I was screaming, shouting,

:24:53. > :24:56.crying, just like proper screaming. I was just cold, I was shaking,

:24:57. > :25:08.and I was crying. And I did not even know what to do.

:25:09. > :25:12.I was all over the place. that you had been brought over

:25:13. > :25:16.here to be a male prostitute? No. I do not think I would

:25:17. > :25:20.have ever tried to do that if I knew that is what I was going

:25:21. > :25:23.to come over here for. It was really sad for me.

:25:24. > :25:33.It is quite emotional saying it now. Me saying that now,

:25:34. > :25:38.obviously I am happy that I get over here,

:25:39. > :25:41.but it is just too sad for me. and I didn't really know

:25:42. > :25:45.how to speak English. I was cold, I was scared,

:25:46. > :25:48.and I was crying. I could not even know

:25:49. > :25:51.where to start. I am thinking, "I think this is

:25:52. > :25:55.the end of my life." But I managed to see

:25:56. > :25:58.loads of black people and that. So I met this guy,

:25:59. > :26:01.I think he was a Nigerian guy. "Listen, this is my situation,

:26:02. > :26:07.I want you to help me". And he said, "I cannot really

:26:08. > :26:12.help you, the only thing I can do is put you on a bus

:26:13. > :26:15.and go and apply for asylum." And he bought me a bus pass

:26:16. > :26:21.and put me on the bus and I went to the Home Office,

:26:22. > :26:24.and I explained my story. I explained what happened to me

:26:25. > :26:26.and everything. But they did not believe what I am

:26:27. > :26:30.saying because I haven't got any ID, I haven't got anything

:26:31. > :26:32.to prove to them that this is my situation

:26:33. > :26:34.that I have been through. But they gave me some advice,

:26:35. > :26:41.saying that the only way we can look at your case, or look after you,

:26:42. > :26:45.is for you to apply for asylum. So I applied for asylum,

:26:46. > :26:49.they put me into an accommodation while I was waiting

:26:50. > :26:52.for my asylum to be solved. And all during this time all you

:26:53. > :26:55.wanted to do was play football, all I wanted to do in my life

:26:56. > :27:02.was just to play football. And for me personally,

:27:03. > :27:04.football is my dream. That is what I always wanted to do,

:27:05. > :27:12.to play football. But because I was 16 at that time

:27:13. > :27:16.they could not even sent me back home or do anything to me so they

:27:17. > :27:20.ended up giving me a two-year stay. I kind of forgot about what I had

:27:21. > :27:37.been through in my life, because... It was sad for me,

:27:38. > :27:40.but it ended up coming to like a good thing

:27:41. > :27:42.in my life. I started meeting people, started

:27:43. > :27:45.playing my football that I like. Started getting in touch

:27:46. > :27:47.with people and all them things. And I got the opportunity

:27:48. > :27:50.to join Watford when I was 16. And then things started

:27:51. > :27:52.building up for me. How big do you think

:27:53. > :27:54.this problem is? Do you think it is happening

:27:55. > :27:57.to a lot of children, This, it is happening,

:27:58. > :28:01.and think there are loads of vulnerable kids in Africa who want

:28:02. > :28:04.to achieve what I have in my life. And their parents

:28:05. > :28:06.really want to achieve what someone like me wanted

:28:07. > :28:08.to achieve in my life. So I think there is loads

:28:09. > :28:11.of honourable place that they will probably tell them, "Listen,

:28:12. > :28:14.I want to help you play football." Some of them would not even

:28:15. > :28:21.talk to their parents. Some of them, their parents

:28:22. > :28:25.would use their last money to make sure they come over here

:28:26. > :28:27.to play football and they end up

:28:28. > :28:30.doing something else. So for me it is existing, and I just

:28:31. > :28:34.think it is more important for me to have been through all them things

:28:35. > :28:38.in my life and for me to say it, so that people out there know I have

:28:39. > :28:41.been through that, I have survived. But what about the young kids

:28:42. > :28:43.that are coming up? Are they going to survive, are they

:28:44. > :28:47.going to be able to cope with that? So we really need to find a way

:28:48. > :28:50.how to stop all of that. Let's talk now to Ed Hawkins,

:28:51. > :28:53.a journalist who has spent the past two years

:28:54. > :29:13.investigating the trafficking trade How rare is it for him to make it to

:29:14. > :29:16.the Premier League? Extremely rare, probably one and several thousand to

:29:17. > :29:21.have made it to a club and be given a contract. The numbers on this sort

:29:22. > :29:28.of trade, the slave trade, if you like, is up to several thousand a

:29:29. > :29:35.year. Since 2009, it has been 7000 two France alone, and very few of

:29:36. > :29:42.those people make it. How many of them even get a trial? Very few

:29:43. > :29:48.again, because the scam works where unscrupulous agents or Scouts will

:29:49. > :29:55.say to a player, give me ?3000, ?4000, I will get you a trial at

:29:56. > :29:58.PSG, Man City, wherever, and they were actually taken two France or

:29:59. > :30:04.England, and the trial does not exist. The agent has gone missing,

:30:05. > :30:09.they are siphoned off into drugs, prostitution, other sorts of crime.

:30:10. > :30:16.How much is known about this problem and the scale of it? It is still saw

:30:17. > :30:21.that in its infancy, because no-one is really getting a handle on it. --

:30:22. > :30:27.sort of. Fifa have paid lip service to it, there is a charity which

:30:28. > :30:32.exists to help out these young players and try to stamp out the

:30:33. > :30:37.issue that I've found in my investigation, a charity that does

:30:38. > :30:43.not appear to do what they say they do, no-one really knows what they

:30:44. > :30:50.do. So no-one is really tackling it, and no-one really knows the sort

:30:51. > :30:54.of anatomy of it until now. And that is what I sort of set out to do, to

:30:55. > :30:57.understand how they are moving these players and why they are moving

:30:58. > :31:03.these players, and it is multifaceted, really.

:31:04. > :31:09.So they are young footballers, originally? Talk us through it. They

:31:10. > :31:15.are desperate to play in Europe, they want to be the next Messi or

:31:16. > :31:19.whatever. An agent or scout will see an opportunity to make money out of

:31:20. > :31:23.them, either because he believes this kid is good enough to play

:31:24. > :31:28.football, or that they can get hold of some family money offer him for

:31:29. > :31:33.this trial, which may or may not exist. The kids may go for a trial

:31:34. > :31:37.and, most likely, he will not be good enough, then the agent washes

:31:38. > :31:44.his hands off him and he is left abandoned in Europe with nowhere to

:31:45. > :31:49.go. What good Fifa do? There is a Fifa rule called Article 19 which

:31:50. > :31:54.prevents the international transfer of miners, but within football the

:31:55. > :32:00.law was not really adhered to. You probably member was alone at but a

:32:01. > :32:04.transfer ban for signing miners when they should not have done. It is not

:32:05. > :32:16.really worth the paper it is written on. This culture permeates from top

:32:17. > :32:20.to bottom in the game. It means that scouts and agents are able to go

:32:21. > :32:24.around exploiting people. These kids that come over, they don't make the

:32:25. > :32:31.grade, maybe they don't even get a triad sometimes, what happens to

:32:32. > :32:35.them? -- don't get a tryout. Often they end up in drugs or crime. We

:32:36. > :32:41.heard that story about prostitution. I met a boy in an east London sink

:32:42. > :32:46.estate called JJ who was traffic from Guinea at the age of 17, he

:32:47. > :32:53.thought he was coming for football, there was no trial. He ended up in a

:32:54. > :32:58.home in North London being pimped out two other men. He escaped, he

:32:59. > :33:01.went to the Home Office and has been given asylum in the UK because his

:33:02. > :33:06.family threatened to kill him because of the abuse he suffered. Is

:33:07. > :33:11.there any sign that the authorities are getting a grip on this? Football

:33:12. > :33:16.authorities, no. The National Crime Agency reasonably up to speed, they

:33:17. > :33:20.are talking about 600 kids a year coming into the UK. It is beginning

:33:21. > :33:25.to build. The issue has been around for some years but hopefully it will

:33:26. > :33:31.be taken about more seriously. Ebury much, Ed Hawkins.

:33:32. > :33:35.Let's go back to the regular news coming out of Mali, Islamist gunman

:33:36. > :33:41.have attacked a hotel and are taking people hostage. It is reported that

:33:42. > :33:46.there are two 170 hostages in the hotel, potentially up to ten gunman.

:33:47. > :33:53.It is unfolding in the Radisson Blue hotel in the capital, Bamako. We are

:33:54. > :33:58.hearing that there are at least two macro private security guards who

:33:59. > :34:09.have been injured. The hotel group which owns and operates the hotel in

:34:10. > :34:16.Mali has issued a statement. It adds that two macro people have locked in

:34:17. > :34:20.140 guests and 30 employees. There is no confirmation of any gunfire,

:34:21. > :34:24.injuries or deaths so far. That has been slightly superseded, we are

:34:25. > :34:30.getting reports of gunfire but we still have no reports of injuries.

:34:31. > :34:34.The US Embassy in Mali has issued a statement to American citizens in

:34:35. > :34:39.the capital. It says the embassy is aware of an ongoing active shooter

:34:40. > :34:43.operation at the Radisson hotel. US Embassy staff have been asked to

:34:44. > :34:49.shelter in place. All US citizen should shelter in place. Try that US

:34:50. > :34:54.citizens are encouraged to contact their families. Monitor local media

:34:55. > :34:59.for updates. US citizens should adhere to the instructions of local

:35:00. > :35:02.authorities and monitor local media. Former BBC Africa producer Kate

:35:03. > :35:06.Forbes is with me. You have stayed at this hotel in the past? Yes, it

:35:07. > :35:10.is a decompression place where we all used to stay when we were

:35:11. > :35:17.covering the war in the north of Mali. Mali has a big problem with an

:35:18. > :35:23.Islamic... Islamic she had is movement mainly in the north. It has

:35:24. > :35:28.been contained their most of the time, but we have had incidents in

:35:29. > :35:35.Bamako before. -- and Islamic art macro movement. This is used by

:35:36. > :35:39.NGOs, the World Bank the IMF. High-level NGOs, diplomats, it is in

:35:40. > :35:48.the centre of town is quite expensive. It has security. When you

:35:49. > :35:56.go in, you are met by security. But I am not sure how this happened. The

:35:57. > :36:02.fact that high profile westerners would stay there would a target?

:36:03. > :36:04.Yes. When we were considering options of somewhere to decompress

:36:05. > :36:08.after having gone up and down covering the war in the north, we

:36:09. > :36:14.were advised to think carefully about staying there because although

:36:15. > :36:21.it was the best hotel, with everything we needed in it, it is

:36:22. > :36:25.also extremely high profile. The French community there is very

:36:26. > :36:31.strong, it is used for business meetings, for NGOs, politicians etc.

:36:32. > :36:36.As you are saying, it is an area with a problem. Does that therefore

:36:37. > :36:43.mean tourist stay away? The tourist industry took a real hate after the

:36:44. > :36:48.war. French tourists small van anglophone tourists, I would say,

:36:49. > :36:52.still go. Mali is an amazing country, it is definitely want to

:36:53. > :36:56.look at, but jihadis are targeting tourist points because they know

:36:57. > :37:01.that that will make people stay away. There have been previous

:37:02. > :37:07.incidents, I think there was one in August? Quite if you have been

:37:08. > :37:15.foiled, there have been small incidents. And in the North, it

:37:16. > :37:19.became quite regular, the French Army working with the Mali Army have

:37:20. > :37:23.done a lot of work to secure the North, but it has not stopped

:37:24. > :37:30.small-scale terror attacks. This is the biggest we have seen. Tell us

:37:31. > :37:36.more about the strength of that Islamic jihadis to movement and the

:37:37. > :37:39.resources they have? When we went up into Timbuktu when it was freed by

:37:40. > :37:46.the French, you could say, but also by the Malian army, there was a lot

:37:47. > :37:51.of evidence of militant Islamist control of the town. They had burned

:37:52. > :37:57.lots of books, they had tried to impose their own codes of dress on

:37:58. > :38:01.female residents. Lots and lots of the rules. They had really taken

:38:02. > :38:10.hold. The French went in, they got them out, but as with most jihadi

:38:11. > :38:14.movement is, -- movements, you cannot say you have eradicated that

:38:15. > :38:21.section of society. What about the rest of society and how this is

:38:22. > :38:28.viewed? For the ordinary person in Mali, what the president said today

:38:29. > :38:32.reflects their view, this is not Islam, this is not our religion,

:38:33. > :38:39.this is not our society, this is not how we want our society to be. They

:38:40. > :38:43.condemn it in strongest terms. I think we will get the latest from

:38:44. > :38:47.our correspondent in a few moments. Let me bring you right up to date

:38:48. > :38:53.with the very latest development that we have. At least two macro

:38:54. > :38:59.private security guards, we hear, have been injured in the attack on

:39:00. > :39:06.that riders and hotel -- Radisson Blu hotel in the Mali capital,

:39:07. > :39:11.Bamako. It has been reported on Reuters. Gunman arrived at that

:39:12. > :39:16.hotel at around 7am on board a vehicle which forced its way through

:39:17. > :39:22.a security barrier at the hotel. The reports are that 170 people are

:39:23. > :39:27.being held hostage in the hotel, 130 guests is, sorry, 140 guests, and 30

:39:28. > :39:34.members of staff, the initial report. That detail just threw about

:39:35. > :39:38.the way they got into the hotel, forcing their way through a security

:39:39. > :39:43.barrier in a vehicle, we were just hearing about the levels of security

:39:44. > :39:49.at that hotel, it has been seen as a potential target. Ben Geoghegan

:39:50. > :40:00.joins me. It is an unclear pig show. One or two macro images appearing

:40:01. > :40:05.online -- it is an unclear picture. You can't really get an impression

:40:06. > :40:09.of what is going on. Difficult to put it together at the moment.

:40:10. > :40:17.Conflicting reports about how many hostage-takers there may have been,

:40:18. > :40:19.whether it is two, one report from Reuters say that around ten binmen

:40:20. > :40:33.are believed to be inside the hotel. I suppose the best guide is from the

:40:34. > :40:38.hotel 's owners. -- about ten gunmen. As far as their information

:40:39. > :40:50.is can burned, they say that two people have locked in 130 guests, 30

:40:51. > :40:53.employees. Two private security guards may have been injured. There

:40:54. > :40:58.is an indication that some guests were Chinese, but the hotel is in

:40:59. > :41:04.the middle of an international area of Bamako, full of diplomats and

:41:05. > :41:11.business people. We can expect a guest list to be pretty varied.

:41:12. > :41:16.There is a member of staff who has given an account over the phone to

:41:17. > :41:20.another news agency as saying that the attackers used grenades in the

:41:21. > :41:26.assault. No information from that person on casualties or the number

:41:27. > :41:29.of assailants involved. Conflicting reports, difficult at the moment to

:41:30. > :41:36.get a clear picture of what is going on. The US embassy has asked

:41:37. > :41:41.citizens to shelter in place amid reports of what they describe as an

:41:42. > :41:47.ongoing active shooter operation. We have had a line from the Foreign

:41:48. > :41:50.Office saying, we are in contact with local authorities and urgently

:41:51. > :41:53.seeking further information following reports of an incident at

:41:54. > :42:01.the Radisson Blu hotel in Bamako in Mali. The latest we are getting is

:42:02. > :42:06.that the company is confirming, as you say, that 170 people are being

:42:07. > :42:15.held hostage in what they describe as a brazen assault involving

:42:16. > :42:21.grenades. I think the local security authorities are still grappling with

:42:22. > :42:25.this. There was one Lieutenant Colonel, an adviser of the Defence

:42:26. > :42:29.Ministry, he said a few minutes ago it is really not clear what has

:42:30. > :42:33.happened. I think they are trying to get a handle on this. The US and

:42:34. > :42:37.French embassies are asking citizens to take shelter where they are in

:42:38. > :42:44.Bamako, and the commander of the Malian army says ten binmen stormed

:42:45. > :42:52.the hotel, shouting a la black bar, or God is great, in Arabic. The area

:42:53. > :42:59.has had in a street -- a history of issues? There was the military coup

:43:00. > :43:03.in 2012, the French centre and forces. The problem has been mainly

:43:04. > :43:09.confined to the north of the country, that has not prevented some

:43:10. > :43:12.of these forces from going into southern areas and attacking, that

:43:13. > :43:17.is what seems to be happening this morning. Thank you. We will keep you

:43:18. > :43:24.updated but, for now, let's join carol with the weather.

:43:25. > :43:36.We expect some snow over the next couple of days. We will not all see

:43:37. > :43:38.it. It will turn colder. We have a weather front in the south of

:43:39. > :43:41.England which will continue to move away, taking the rain with it. You

:43:42. > :43:44.can see the change in the direction of the isobars, they will be coming

:43:45. > :43:48.down from the north, from the Arctic, a much colder direction. You

:43:49. > :43:51.will notice a change in temperature. We will lose the rain from the south

:43:52. > :43:57.through the morning. Dry weather, sunshine and showers find it. But

:43:58. > :44:00.behind this occlusion, it is already colder and the show we currently

:44:01. > :44:04.have continued to turn more wintry through the course of the day,

:44:05. > :44:09.especially over higher ground. We have that initially across Shetland,

:44:10. > :44:13.then it'll come across the north of mainland Scotland. We are looking at

:44:14. > :44:19.lots of dry weather. Showers across northern England. Across the

:44:20. > :44:22.Midlands and into East Anglia and Kent, all the way towards the Isle

:44:23. > :44:28.of Wight, we are looking at lots of dry weather with just the odd

:44:29. > :44:33.shower. Dry weather to the south, blue skies, might show, some skies

:44:34. > :44:38.across western parts Wales, it will be more cloudy at times. Eastern

:44:39. > :44:42.Wales seeing the sunshine. Into Northern Ireland, a mixture of

:44:43. > :44:47.bright spells, sunshine and showers, but increasingly in the cold air we

:44:48. > :44:51.will see that falling as snow. Through the evening and overnight,

:44:52. > :44:55.the wind picks up in the west across the Irish Sea and adjacent areas and

:44:56. > :45:00.down the North Sea coastline. Gusting to gale force, possibly

:45:01. > :45:05.more. Inland, gusting to around 50 mph. The snow is the other half of

:45:06. > :45:09.the story. Snow across north-east Scotland and settling, even at low

:45:10. > :45:13.levels. We will see some across the Southern uplands, Pennines and the

:45:14. > :45:20.Vale of York, settling even at lower levels for a time. This area is a

:45:21. > :45:23.mixture of rain, sleet and snow. Wintry showers. You might wake

:45:24. > :45:27.tomorrow with a dusting but we do not expected last.

:45:28. > :45:31.We are looking at snow showers across Snowdonia, the Brecon Beacons

:45:32. > :45:37.and the tops of the murders. It is not really surprising that it will

:45:38. > :45:43.be a cold night. -- the tops of the moors. Watch out for slippery

:45:44. > :45:46.surfaces bursting. The wintry mix continues to slip

:45:47. > :45:52.southwards tomorrow morning, getting towards the far south-eastern

:45:53. > :45:54.corner. Rain, sleet and snow. There will be wintry flurries across

:45:55. > :46:00.eastern England at times but it will clear for many. Gusty winds, it will

:46:01. > :46:06.feel raw first thing, but the winds easing through the day. Wintry

:46:07. > :46:09.showers across Wales and be moors. Temperatures tomorrow range from

:46:10. > :46:13.three to nine, lower than it has been. When you add on the effects of

:46:14. > :46:18.the wind, how it will feel if you are stepping out, it will be closer

:46:19. > :46:19.to freezing or below. Sunday see something quieter with lighter winds

:46:20. > :46:22.and snow flurries in the East. Hello, it's ten o'clock,

:46:23. > :46:24.I'm Joanna Gosling. Welcome to the programme

:46:25. > :46:26.if you've just joined us. Gunmen in Mali have attacked

:46:27. > :46:30.an international hotel There are reports

:46:31. > :46:44.hostages have been taken. We are looking at another

:46:45. > :46:47.major Islamist terror attack this morning - this time in

:46:48. > :46:50.the west African country of Mali. Two gunmen with automatic weapons

:46:51. > :46:54.are understood to be holed up in the Radisson Blu hotel,

:46:55. > :47:11.holding scores of hostages, There are reports that some have

:47:12. > :47:20.been killed. The hotel is used by UN staff, Air France staff, and members

:47:21. > :47:24.of the Chinese business community. Mali is a former French colony with

:47:25. > :47:28.a significant Islamist insurgency, and there have been French military

:47:29. > :47:32.boots on the ground to try to control it. Ben Geoghegan is here,

:47:33. > :47:36.what is the latest? Well, we're still trying to piece things

:47:37. > :47:42.together, but what we have heard is that there are about 170 hostages at

:47:43. > :47:47.this hotel, 140 guests, 30 employees. It is an ongoing

:47:48. > :47:50.situation, we believe. We have had comments from the US Embassy in

:47:51. > :47:55.Mali, they are telling their citizens to shelter where they are,

:47:56. > :47:59.amid reports of what they describe as an ongoing active shooter

:48:00. > :48:06.operation. Conflicting reports about how many gunmen may be involved, one

:48:07. > :48:11.report saying that there were ten gunmen believed to be inside the

:48:12. > :48:18.hotel in the capital, but the report saying that it just involves two

:48:19. > :48:23.gunmen, and the hotel's owning group, they say they are aware of

:48:24. > :48:27.the hostagetaking, it is ongoing at the property. As far as their

:48:28. > :48:34.information is concerned, they say there are two people who have locked

:48:35. > :48:37.in 140 guests and 30 employees. A few photographs of the scene have

:48:38. > :48:44.begun to emerge online now, you can see a sort of chaos as it looks like

:48:45. > :48:48.security forces have closed off the area, parked cars in the middle of

:48:49. > :48:52.the street, people waving their arms and so on. We are still waiting for

:48:53. > :48:56.the detail both on what is happening outside the hotel and what is going

:48:57. > :49:00.on inside as well. What are we hearing about gunshots being fired

:49:01. > :49:07.on a potential casualties? Again, conflicting reports of gunfire, and

:49:08. > :49:13.one or two suggestions that there may have been grenades. As we say,

:49:14. > :49:17.we're just trying to piece together the information, bits of information

:49:18. > :49:21.coming through. The hotel is in the west of the capital, in an area

:49:22. > :49:26.weather is a lot of big international community, diplomats,

:49:27. > :49:30.governments. -- where there is. A couple of accounts have come from

:49:31. > :49:35.Chinese tourists, there is likely to be quite a large Chinese contingent

:49:36. > :49:38.inside the hotel, but it is an international area, likely to be

:49:39. > :49:42.tourists from all sorts of countries at the moment. What do we know about

:49:43. > :49:46.levels of security at that hotel? Won't imagine they are high, but we

:49:47. > :49:52.have not got the detail on that. There was a coup in 2012, the French

:49:53. > :49:56.sending troops to try to deal with that, they pushed out Islamic

:49:57. > :50:01.extremists, but there have been problems ever since with attacks,

:50:02. > :50:06.one as recently as March, in which masked gunmen shot at a restaurant

:50:07. > :50:09.and five people were killed, a restaurant that was popular with

:50:10. > :50:14.foreigners. So there has been this ongoing insurgency, so you would

:50:15. > :50:20.imagine that security in places like this hotel would be pretty intense.

:50:21. > :50:23.We are just hearing a security source being quoted on the Reuters

:50:24. > :50:27.news agency as saying that the gunmen have read some hostages,

:50:28. > :50:34.including those able to recite verses of the Koran. Well, yes,

:50:35. > :50:38.we're just getting this information all the time from the various

:50:39. > :50:44.different news agencies. If that is happening, then obviously that still

:50:45. > :50:48.means that, to some extent, it suggests that the hostage-takers are

:50:49. > :50:54.still in control of that situation. By all accounts, a very dangerous

:50:55. > :50:58.one. George Joffe is an expert on Mali, professor of politics at

:50:59. > :51:03.Cambridge University, he joins us via Skype. We are just getting these

:51:04. > :51:08.initial reports, tell us your thoughts based on the history of

:51:09. > :51:16.Mali. Well, I think, first of all, we have to see this in connection

:51:17. > :51:19.with the events in Paris. This really is a statement about the

:51:20. > :51:26.French failures to subdue the Islamist groups in Mali that were

:51:27. > :51:31.active in 2013, in January 2013, trying to take the capital, Bamako.

:51:32. > :51:34.So in a way, it is a statement about what happened in Paris, and a

:51:35. > :51:41.statement about the continued and rest in northern Mali, and the lack

:51:42. > :51:46.of success of French and Mali and forces to suppress the Islamist

:51:47. > :51:53.groups there. So the fact that this is a former French colony, you are

:51:54. > :51:56.seeing that as being highly significant Ulster it is not that it

:51:57. > :52:02.is a former French colony so much, it is the fact that the French army

:52:03. > :52:07.intervened in January 2013 to protect the capital from being taken

:52:08. > :52:12.over. At the same time, a dissident elements of the groups in Mali also

:52:13. > :52:17.attacked Algeria, and a major gas facility there. So in a way, the

:52:18. > :52:21.point really is that the groups concerned who are affiliated to

:52:22. > :52:26.Al-Qaeda wants to demonstrate that they are still active, acting in

:52:27. > :52:30.sympathy with their compatriots and colleagues in France, and of course

:52:31. > :52:35.with the Islamic State in the Middle East. That is a very interesting

:52:36. > :52:38.collision of interests, because normally Al-Qaeda and Islamic State

:52:39. > :52:44.are diametrically opposed to each other. What we are seeing here is

:52:45. > :52:47.the beginning of a widespread demonstration, extremists of the

:52:48. > :52:53.four actions against Europe and actions against France. -- extremist

:52:54. > :53:00.sympathy for. So this is most likely a group affiliated to Al-Qaeda, not

:53:01. > :53:04.IS? There is dispute about that, because groups in northern Mali are

:53:05. > :53:09.supposed to be considering whether they will affiliated with Islamic

:53:10. > :53:15.State rather than Al-Qaeda. There are three groups involved. One

:53:16. > :53:22.originates from Algeria, they came to Mali in 2003, another is a split

:53:23. > :53:27.off from that original group, and it involves non-Algerian extremists.

:53:28. > :53:35.The third group that has been active alongside the other two. -- the

:53:36. > :53:42.third group is a Tuareg group. They took over Timbuktu in 2012, and they

:53:43. > :53:46.have been there ever since. The French did push them back in 2013,

:53:47. > :53:52.but they were not able to eliminate them completely, and they have now

:53:53. > :53:54.grown again. In a sense, they are demonstrating that they still exist,

:53:55. > :53:59.they are powerful, and they are looking for new affiliation. So the

:54:00. > :54:04.link with Paris is therefore quite significant. So you think this would

:54:05. > :54:08.have been deliberately timed, then, to come after Paris? I do not know

:54:09. > :54:11.if it was deliberately timed, I doubt if there was coordination

:54:12. > :54:16.between the groups concerned, their means of communication are not that

:54:17. > :54:19.good, but I think it is an attack in sympathy. There have been other

:54:20. > :54:23.attacks on Bamako before, you heard about the attack on the restaurant

:54:24. > :54:27.in March, but there were attacks last and the year before, and the

:54:28. > :54:32.attacks take place there because it is a main centre for the aid

:54:33. > :54:35.agencies and the foreign powers engaged in Mali. As you heard, the

:54:36. > :54:39.Chinese are particularly active there, so it is a good place to make

:54:40. > :54:44.a demonstration that will be noticed by the wider world. Bearing that in

:54:45. > :54:50.mind, then, that hotel would have been seen as a potential targets -

:54:51. > :54:54.what sort of security should there have been in place at that hotel? We

:54:55. > :55:01.hear that the gunmen got into the hotel by breaking through security

:55:02. > :55:05.in a vehicle. Well, I'm afraid to say that the Malian army, which is

:55:06. > :55:09.responsible for security there, is notorious for the fact that it is

:55:10. > :55:14.ill disciplined and ill trained. It received a lot of American help in

:55:15. > :55:17.years past, but a lot of that was taken in corrupt collections by

:55:18. > :55:20.members of the government. The result has been considerable

:55:21. > :55:25.discontent inside the army, and there have been at least two army

:55:26. > :55:29.mutinies in recent years against the government because of the

:55:30. > :55:33.dissatisfaction of soldiers with their conditions of service. They

:55:34. > :55:37.have also been involved, alongside French, and trying to suppress the

:55:38. > :55:40.extremists in the north of the country, but again not very

:55:41. > :55:44.successfully, and there is a lot of tension between North and South in

:55:45. > :55:47.Mali, between different ethnic groups, and I think that has

:55:48. > :55:52.probably played into the fact that the groups can penetrate quite

:55:53. > :55:56.easily into the capital. George Joffe, for the moment, thank you.

:55:57. > :56:00.Let's bring Ben Geoghegan back in, I know you across the latest

:56:01. > :56:04.developments. Just reading the latest reports to appear on the

:56:05. > :56:11.wires here about several wounded people evacuating from the hotel.

:56:12. > :56:14.Now, we cannot confirm this, it is just another little bit of

:56:15. > :56:18.information that one has to see in the context of everything else that

:56:19. > :56:21.is coming in. I'm just going to read it as I see it for the first time

:56:22. > :56:25.myself, the morning attack at the hotel has turned into a hostage

:56:26. > :56:32.situation involving terrorists, and exchange of fire is still going on,

:56:33. > :56:36.according to this report. At nine o'clock the situation had not been

:56:37. > :56:42.brought under control, but a large number of security forces have been

:56:43. > :56:45.deployed to the area, and some people have been interviewed at the

:56:46. > :56:50.scene, they have talked about several people wounded and evacuated

:56:51. > :56:57.by ambulance. So that is the latest we have heard on what is clearly an

:56:58. > :57:02.unclear situation. But the headline is, and we have had several reports

:57:03. > :57:09.to suggest this, 140 guests, 30 members of staff taken hostage at

:57:10. > :57:12.this hotel. Also, another report was that the hostage-takers were

:57:13. > :57:16.releasing some people if they were able to recite verses from the

:57:17. > :57:22.Koran. Again, all unconfirmed, and it is going to be a while before we

:57:23. > :57:26.get clarity. And no breakdown of where those guests might have come

:57:27. > :57:30.from at this moment, beyond some reports indicating some Chinese. As

:57:31. > :57:34.we have been saying, given the area where the hoteliers, you would

:57:35. > :57:39.expect to have an international guest list, but we have heard from

:57:40. > :57:44.several Chinese guests who have reported being trapped in that hotel

:57:45. > :57:49.in the capital. But it is right in the middle of the sort of

:57:50. > :57:52.international, political, diplomatic area, you would expect tourists and

:57:53. > :57:57.business people from all over the world. Is it much of an area for

:57:58. > :58:02.tourism, bearing in mind the problems Mali has had? Well, I guess

:58:03. > :58:09.the tourist trade has been affected by the problems of a couple of years

:58:10. > :58:12.ago, because there was that insurgency, and then the French

:58:13. > :58:17.troops were sent in, Bamako was a no-go area for tourists a couple of

:58:18. > :58:19.years ago, and it may be that things have improved, but of course the

:58:20. > :58:26.Chinese are interested in doing deals in Africa, it is an area where

:58:27. > :58:28.they want to help develop infrastructure in many different

:58:29. > :58:34.countries there, so no surprise to hear that they are in the hotel.

:58:35. > :58:38.Ben, thank you for bringing us right up to date. Let's go now to Paris,

:58:39. > :58:42.Ben Brown is there, and there has been an update from the security

:58:43. > :58:47.severs is investigating last week's rates, another body has been found

:58:48. > :58:51.in the apartment which was raided. Tell us more. Yes, this is the big

:58:52. > :58:56.police raid that there was on Wednesday morning, we were up there

:58:57. > :59:02.one that was going on, Wednesday morning, Joanna, a seven-hour police

:59:03. > :59:09.operation, police fired ?5,000 into that flat in Saint-Denis in the

:59:10. > :59:14.north of Paris. -- 5000 rounds. We knew that one female had blown

:59:15. > :59:18.herself up and another man was dead, and now we are hearing from the

:59:19. > :59:24.Paris prosecutor that a third body, three dead terrorists in that flat.

:59:25. > :59:29.They are also saying, and we knew last night, that one of them was

:59:30. > :59:34.Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who was one of the ringleaders, if you like, the

:59:35. > :59:38.co-ordinate of last Friday's Paris attacks, and the man who the French

:59:39. > :59:43.authorities were alarmed had managed to slip from Syria into friends

:59:44. > :59:52.without anyone noticing. -- into France. We believe that the woman

:59:53. > :59:57.who blew herself up, a passport in her name has just been revealed, it

:59:58. > :00:01.was found in a handbag in the flat, so that seems to be the woman who

:00:02. > :00:04.blew herself up quite early on in that police operation as police were

:00:05. > :00:10.trying to get into the flat. And then a third body, who is that? That

:00:11. > :00:13.is a key question for the police investigators here. If it is

:00:14. > :00:17.26-year-old Saller Abdur slam, the man that police have been hunting

:00:18. > :00:23.after these tariff attacks, that would be a breakthrough. -- Saller

:00:24. > :00:25.Abdur slam. That seems unlikely, because he was seen leaving France

:00:26. > :00:29.the day after the attacks, and at that stage the police did not know

:00:30. > :00:33.they were after him, so he was checked at the border with Belgium

:00:34. > :00:37.and allowed to go on his way. It is conceivable he came back to Paris

:00:38. > :00:39.and was in that flat on Wednesday that the police raided in

:00:40. > :00:41.Saint-Denis, but we will have to wait and see who that third body is,

:00:42. > :00:51.they have not yet told us. Based on how long it took to

:00:52. > :00:55.identify the bodies previously, when would you expect an identification?

:00:56. > :01:00.It could be some time, it took a day or two macro to identify Abdelhamid

:01:01. > :01:05.Abaaoud, and they did that by fingerprints from what was left of

:01:06. > :01:09.his body. According to the Paris prosecutor his body was riddled with

:01:10. > :01:12.bullets and shrapnel. It might take them some time, assuming they have

:01:13. > :01:16.the original fingerprints or some sort of DNA sample, that is why it

:01:17. > :01:17.is difficult to carry out sort of DNA sample, that is why it

:01:18. > :01:23.is difficult to carry out this sort of identification. We are outside

:01:24. > :01:27.the Bataclan cafe, where a week ago today 89 people lost their lives.

:01:28. > :01:31.This was the scene of the deadliest attack last Friday. People have been

:01:32. > :01:38.laying flowers here in the days since then. There will be a vigil

:01:39. > :01:42.tonight in memory of the victims, at the Bataclan, and also at the scenes

:01:43. > :01:48.of all the other attacks last Friday night which, in total, left 129

:01:49. > :01:55.people dead from 17 different nations. Thank you, Ben.

:01:56. > :01:58.Some breaking news. The Metropolitan Police Service you done and reserved

:01:59. > :01:59.apology to a group of women with whom its officers had relationships

:02:00. > :02:02.well they were undercover. Our home affairs correspondent

:02:03. > :02:13.Danny Shaw is in Central London. What has happened? I am here at the

:02:14. > :02:18.Chambers of a legal firm where in just under an hour there will be a

:02:19. > :02:23.press conference by the seven women who have been given an unreserved

:02:24. > :02:26.apology by the Metropolitan Police because they had relationships with

:02:27. > :02:30.five undercover policeman without knowing their real identities. The

:02:31. > :02:34.Metropolitan Police has issued an unreserved apology to the women and

:02:35. > :02:39.a very detailed statement. It really couldn't be clearer, the statement

:02:40. > :02:44.says that the relationships were abusive, deceitful and manipulative.

:02:45. > :02:47.It says they were a violation of women's human rights and a gross

:02:48. > :02:53.violation of the women's personal dignity and integrity, and an abuse

:02:54. > :02:57.of police power, which caused the women significant trauma. I

:02:58. > :03:00.unreservedly apologise, says Assistant Commissioner Martin

:03:01. > :03:04.Hewitt, speaking on behalf of the Metropolitan. He makes another of

:03:05. > :03:09.points. The women did not bring these relationships or what happened

:03:10. > :03:12.in them on themselves, it may have reflected attitudes towards women in

:03:13. > :03:17.the Metropolitan Police at the time. He says there is no place for those

:03:18. > :03:20.attitudes. In some cases he believes that the undercover officers preyed

:03:21. > :03:23.on the good nature of the women and manipulated their real motion 's,

:03:24. > :03:28.leaving them at risk of further abuse. He says the questions about

:03:29. > :03:32.weather the officers may have had genuine feelings for the women is

:03:33. > :03:36.entirely irrelevant and it does not make their conduct except the ball.

:03:37. > :03:42.It is a clear statement, a clear apology, and substantial

:03:43. > :03:46.compensation is also been awarded to the seven women, but I am told that

:03:47. > :03:50.is not what they were seeking. What they wanted above all was an apology

:03:51. > :03:53.from the Met Police, and today they have it. Thank you, Danny.

:03:54. > :03:56.One of the women had a relationship for more than four years with

:03:57. > :04:00.She told our home affairs correspondent June Kelly how he

:04:01. > :04:10.We attended relationship counselling for about 18 months, because I

:04:11. > :04:16.wanted a baby, and he didn't. We were planning for a future. We had a

:04:17. > :04:19.very domestic lifestyle. I was a schoolteacher, he was a joiner. He

:04:20. > :04:24.would go out to work at six o'clock every morning, the back-out about

:04:25. > :04:28.5:30pm. We would have said that together, we might go out to a

:04:29. > :04:32.meeting, or not. He was completely integrated into my life, he is

:04:33. > :04:36.ingrained in all the memorabilia of my life, the family photos from that

:04:37. > :04:42.period of my life. My mother got remarried during that time, my

:04:43. > :04:48.stepbrother got remarried. He was a very big part... He was my life for

:04:49. > :04:52.five years. And then, overnight on he disappeared. And when he

:04:53. > :04:56.disappeared, what did you think? I did not know what to think. It

:04:57. > :05:00.didn't make sense. I knew a little bit about depression and I

:05:01. > :05:06.understood that he was not functioning very well. After a

:05:07. > :05:13.relatively short space of time, a few weeks, I met with another

:05:14. > :05:16.activist who asked me lots of questions and said that we needed to

:05:17. > :05:22.check that he, basically, wasn't a spy. At that point I know what this

:05:23. > :05:29.person was talking about, but came away thinking, could he have been a

:05:30. > :05:32.spy? It made everything slotted into place, if he was. It would have made

:05:33. > :05:35.sense of the fact that I never met his family, they'd sense of the fact

:05:36. > :05:43.that I never saw any photographs from when he was younger, the

:05:44. > :05:48.legend, that I now realise it was, to avoid me digging further into his

:05:49. > :05:54.background, would have all been part of that. And I convinced myself,

:05:55. > :05:57.despite the fact that most people around me thought I was going

:05:58. > :06:02.insane, but I convinced myself that that was what the truth was, that he

:06:03. > :06:06.was a state agent of some sort. I wasn't sure weather that was MI5 or

:06:07. > :06:11.special Branch. I would have recurring dreams for about a year

:06:12. > :06:17.and a half where I would see him in the dream and ask him, are you

:06:18. > :06:22.Special Branch or MI5? Then I would wake up.

:06:23. > :06:26.Let's go back to the breaking news out of Mali, 170 people being held

:06:27. > :06:35.hostage in a luxury hotel in the capital, Bamako. The latest reports

:06:36. > :06:41.suggest that six staff members are inside the hotel, six staff members

:06:42. > :06:47.of Turkish airlines. It is the first information we are getting

:06:48. > :06:53.specifically of those caught up inside this hostagetaking in the

:06:54. > :06:59.Radisson Blu in Mali. Turkish Outlines says six staff members are

:07:00. > :07:02.in that hotel. It has a lot of international best working in the

:07:03. > :07:10.diplomatic community. The government, also add port is

:07:11. > :07:13.workers, and Turkish Airlines says six of its workers are caught up in

:07:14. > :07:18.the siege. There is some security at this hotel equals it would have been

:07:19. > :07:22.seen as a potential target in a country which has had problems with

:07:23. > :07:30.Islamic extremism following a military coup in 2012. There have

:07:31. > :07:33.been various incidents. Mainly the North is insecure, but there have

:07:34. > :07:38.been militant attacks further south this year. This is the hotel, the

:07:39. > :07:45.Radisson Blu in Bamako, the capital of Mali, which is under attack right

:07:46. > :07:51.now. There are reports that some hostages who were able to recite

:07:52. > :07:57.verses of the Koran were freed. The hotel is saying that in terms of the

:07:58. > :08:04.numbers seized, 140 guests and 30 employees of that hotel. The reports

:08:05. > :08:09.are that up to ten gunmen stormed the hotel, shouting Allahu Akbar, or

:08:10. > :08:12.God is great in Arabic, before firing on the ground and taking

:08:13. > :08:24.hostages. I can bring in one of our

:08:25. > :08:31.correspondents from BBC Afrique. Please bring this up to date. Some

:08:32. > :08:34.of the hostages who were able to recite verses from the Koran have

:08:35. > :08:39.been saved, others are still inside the hotel. There is a massive

:08:40. > :08:49.security operation going on as we are speaking. It involves the French

:08:50. > :08:59.forces, the Mali troops and the US forces present in Mali. It is early

:09:00. > :09:04.in the morning, that these gunmen came. Our correspondent on the field

:09:05. > :09:09.told us that the gardeners who saw them coming were frightened and had

:09:10. > :09:13.to leave the place. When they came, they went straight to the seventh

:09:14. > :09:23.floor. Weather they had a specific target, we don't know. They are

:09:24. > :09:25.presidential suites and a number of international guests stay there. At

:09:26. > :09:32.least the staying at his hotel, which has 190 rooms. -- as we speak,

:09:33. > :09:38.many guests are staying at this hotel. The seventh floor is where

:09:39. > :09:41.the highest profile guests would be? That is what we understand. They

:09:42. > :09:46.stormed the hotel, they went straight to the seventh floor. We

:09:47. > :09:52.don't know if they were targeting a particular person or group, but what

:09:53. > :10:00.is sure is that there are reports coming from Bamako, recently the

:10:01. > :10:08.founder of an Islamist radical group issued a video asking his followers

:10:09. > :10:13.to attack French forces and French interests in the country. A former

:10:14. > :10:18.French colony, and following on from the Paris attack, people might

:10:19. > :10:22.wonder whether there is a link, whether the timing is medical

:10:23. > :10:30.incidents? That is what many people would ask. -- whether the timing is

:10:31. > :10:35.not a coincidence? Radical groups, whether rebel groups, Islamist in

:10:36. > :10:40.the country, they have not been happy about the French intervention

:10:41. > :10:46.three years ago. Some of them may think that it is a containment

:10:47. > :10:52.strategy, they had been contained but not defeated, Mali being a very

:10:53. > :10:56.complex country. More than 1 million square kilometres. The northern part

:10:57. > :11:01.has a desert area with lots of mountains. It has been a hideout for

:11:02. > :11:09.the Islamist 's. They are now showing that they can come out and

:11:10. > :11:13.strike, and in the North, West but also in capital, Oracle, to degs

:11:14. > :11:17.target. Earlier I spoke to Kate Forbes, a

:11:18. > :11:23.reporter who has previously stayed at this hotel.

:11:24. > :11:26.It is a decompression place where we stayed when we were covering the war

:11:27. > :11:34.in the north of Mali. Ali has a big drop them with the Islamic she had

:11:35. > :11:43.is movement, mainly in the North -- Mali has a big problem with the

:11:44. > :11:49.Islamic, jihadist movement. This hotel is used by NGOs, the World

:11:50. > :11:56.Bank, the IMF, those sorts of high-level NGOs, diplomat. It is in

:11:57. > :12:00.the centre of town, quite expensive. It has security on the front of the

:12:01. > :12:08.building. When you go in, you are met by security, but I am not sure

:12:09. > :12:12.how this happened. The fact that high profile westerners would stay

:12:13. > :12:17.there would make it an obvious target? It does. When we were

:12:18. > :12:22.considering our options of somewhere to decompress after having gone up

:12:23. > :12:25.and down covering the war in the north, we were advised to think

:12:26. > :12:30.carefully about staying there because although it was the best

:12:31. > :12:36.hotel with everything that we needed, it is also extremely

:12:37. > :12:42.high-profile. The French community there is very strong. It is used for

:12:43. > :12:47.business meetings, for NGOs, politicians et cetera. It is an area

:12:48. > :12:53.that has a problem. Does that mean that tourists should stay away? The

:12:54. > :12:57.tourist industry took a real head after the war. French tourists more

:12:58. > :13:03.than Anglophone tourists, I would say, still go. Mali is an amazing

:13:04. > :13:09.country, it is definitely one to look at. But jihadis are targeting

:13:10. > :13:16.tourist points because they know it will make people stay away. There

:13:17. > :13:21.have been previous incident, I think there was one in August? Quite a few

:13:22. > :13:28.have been foiled, there have been small incident. And in the north, it

:13:29. > :13:32.became quite regular, the French army working with a million army.

:13:33. > :13:42.They have done a lot of work to secure the North. -- working with

:13:43. > :13:50.the Malian army. Tell us more about the strength of the Islamic she had

:13:51. > :14:00.is to movement and their resources? -- the Islamic she had movement?

:14:01. > :14:06.There was a lot of evidence of militant Islamist control of the

:14:07. > :14:09.town. They had burned lots of books. They had tried to impose their own

:14:10. > :14:16.codes of dress on female residents. Lots and lots of other rules. The

:14:17. > :14:24.French went in, they got them out, but as with most jihadi movements,

:14:25. > :14:31.you can't say that you have ever eradicated that section of society.

:14:32. > :15:06.What about the rest of society, how this is viewed? For the ordinary

:15:07. > :15:09.person, it reflects their view, this is not Islam, this is not our

:15:10. > :15:20.religion, this is not our society, it is

:15:21. > :15:25.a French presidential source has reportedly said French people are

:15:26. > :15:30.among those held in the hotel siege. It follows on from Turkish

:15:31. > :15:33.airlines confirming that six of its staff are not hotel. There have been

:15:34. > :15:38.reports that several Chinese are in that hotel. No further details of

:15:39. > :15:45.who is caught up in this 170 hostages being held in that hotel in

:15:46. > :15:50.the capital of Mali, Bamako. The Foreign Office says it is monitoring

:15:51. > :15:56.events. Let's bring you up to date with the latest developments.

:15:57. > :16:08.The Radisson Blu hotel in Bamako is under attack from gunmen, 170 people

:16:09. > :16:14.are held hostage. There is a massive ongoing security operation. Those

:16:15. > :16:20.being held are said to be a guests and 40 staff. It is understood the

:16:21. > :16:28.attackers be' car rammed through a security barrier. -- said to be 130

:16:29. > :16:32.guests. Mali has been plagued by insecurity since Islamist groups

:16:33. > :16:38.seized control of the North and were then blocked by French troops.

:16:39. > :16:42.A week on from the Paris terror attacks, Theresa May is urging the

:16:43. > :16:48.European Union to rapidly implement further border security measures.

:16:49. > :16:51.She is joined counterparts in Brussels for an emergency meeting in

:16:52. > :16:57.the wake of the Paris attacks. It follows evidence that some of them

:16:58. > :17:00.ended France undetected or posing as Syrian refugees. -- entered.

:17:01. > :17:03.Senior police chiefs say more budget cuts could affect

:17:04. > :17:05.the UK's ability to respond to a terror attack like Paris.

:17:06. > :17:08.in the Chancellor's Spending Review next week.

:17:09. > :17:11.charged with murdering 15-year-old Kayleigh Haywood.

:17:12. > :17:14.Stephen Beadman, who's 28, is also charged with rape.

:17:15. > :17:16.Kayleigh was last seen in Ibstock, Leicestershire, on Friday evening.

:17:17. > :17:34.Back to developments in Mali, 170 people being held hostage in a

:17:35. > :17:41.luxury hotel in Bamako, the rad as in the is popular with those in the

:17:42. > :17:45.diplomatic community. -- Radisson Blu. It is also popular with the

:17:46. > :17:51.government and those who work for airlines. It is... Just hearing, let

:17:52. > :18:00.me just tell you that the Malian president is returning to the

:18:01. > :18:05.country. He has broken off a visit to Chad, where he has been attending

:18:06. > :18:12.a meeting of GE five Sahel members to discuss security in the meeting.

:18:13. > :18:18.-- G5 Sahel. These are the first pictures we are getting of the

:18:19. > :18:21.scenes outside the hotel. There is a large security presence, and I can

:18:22. > :18:24.bring in Ben Geoghegan, who can bring is right up to date with the

:18:25. > :18:32.latest developments. Yeah, just watching bits and pieces on social

:18:33. > :18:36.media, looking at the footage. From what we have been able to see so

:18:37. > :18:41.far, it does not look as though there are lots of security there.

:18:42. > :18:45.One bit of footage from a Chinese tourists inside the hotel is looking

:18:46. > :18:49.down onto quite an empty street, so not quite sure just how big a

:18:50. > :18:54.security operation or where it is, but obviously a lot of things about

:18:55. > :18:59.this are still unclear. As you were saying, 140 guests, 30 employees

:19:00. > :19:03.taken hostage earlier this morning. Conflicting reports about how many

:19:04. > :19:08.gunmen, there was a report of a car being rammed through security,

:19:09. > :19:13.people shouting God is great in Arabic. The hotel owners have put

:19:14. > :19:17.out a statement saying, as far as they knew, there were two gunmen,

:19:18. > :19:20.and conflicting reports about whether they were just gunmen, or

:19:21. > :19:26.whether they had grenades as well, there were reports of people hearing

:19:27. > :19:32.explosions at the hotel. The US embassy is telling its nationals to

:19:33. > :19:36.stay inside, and they have described this as an ongoing shooter

:19:37. > :19:40.operation. That is their language. We have also had reports that a

:19:41. > :19:45.number of people have been evacuated and have been taken to hospital. You

:19:46. > :19:48.were saying earlier that there was a report about people being released

:19:49. > :19:53.if they knew some of the verses of the Koran. Again, we have not

:19:54. > :19:58.confirmed that, but it is coming up on the wires. Also, Chinese tourists

:19:59. > :20:04.in no tell, six members of staff belonging to Turkish Airlines. We

:20:05. > :20:06.know this is an international area of the capital, so bound to be

:20:07. > :20:14.tourists from different countries there. And obviously this is an

:20:15. > :20:18.ongoing situation, and we don't yet have a clear picture, but it seems

:20:19. > :20:23.as though a people, at the beginning of this, had been taken hostage. We

:20:24. > :20:28.can bring in a survivor of the attack in Bamako, he escaped from

:20:29. > :20:35.the hotel gym. Thank you for joining us, tell us where you are. You are

:20:36. > :20:39.welcome! I am in Bamako, I am living in the rad as an complex for the

:20:40. > :20:44.last two years, and everyday I do my daily work-out, from six o'clock

:20:45. > :20:51.until eight o'clock in the morning. Usually during that time, there are

:20:52. > :20:57.a few people, but today it was extremely quiet. There were two

:20:58. > :21:02.people inside the gym, they left, and I was a bit worried, because it

:21:03. > :21:07.was quite during the process. We have the music on all the time at

:21:08. > :21:12.the gym, so I didn't hear any gunshots. I left the gym, and I

:21:13. > :21:16.tried to go in the lobby. I opened the lobby door slowly, and I saw

:21:17. > :21:24.bullets on the ground. So I closed the door of the lobby, and I went

:21:25. > :21:28.door to door, I came back into the gym, and from there I left the

:21:29. > :21:34.hotel. Outside the hotel, there were police and military, they escorted

:21:35. > :21:39.me out and brought me into my house, which is literally near Radisson, 20

:21:40. > :21:43.or 30 metres. So tell us more about the evidence you saw inside the

:21:44. > :21:48.hotel, you saw bullets on the ground? Yes, I just opened the door

:21:49. > :21:55.for two seconds, and I saw bullets on the ground, and I closed the door

:21:56. > :21:59.slowly and I left. I mean, everything was clean and clear at

:22:00. > :22:04.the gym area. I didn't see any people, but there were no bullet

:22:05. > :22:09.holes or anything, that was it, I went out. Obviously I went out. You

:22:10. > :22:15.mentioned music in the gym men she did not hear anything, tell us what

:22:16. > :22:23.you did here that finally gave rise to you having concerns. -- you did

:22:24. > :22:28.not hear anything. I did hear sporadic gunshots, but the gym, from

:22:29. > :22:35.the lobby, it is a separate part, so it is quite far away, and it is very

:22:36. > :22:41.difficult to hear anything. So you managed to get away, and are you

:22:42. > :22:46.back at home now? Yeah, yeah. How close is that to the hotel? It is

:22:47. > :22:51.adjacent, we are in the complex near the hotel, which is like 30

:22:52. > :23:00.centimetres, I walked there every morning. I walk there every

:23:01. > :23:05.morning. It is near, we are in the complex, about 20 villas which are

:23:06. > :23:12.adjacent to the hotel, it is near. Can you see and hear what is going

:23:13. > :23:16.on right now? Can I see? If I go out in the street, yeah, I can see

:23:17. > :23:25.something, but the security guards have advised us to stay home. OK,

:23:26. > :23:30.stay home, stay safe. But I can hear sporadic gunshots, there have been

:23:31. > :23:35.quite a few, yeah, even in the last minute there has been something.

:23:36. > :23:39.There have been reports that the gunmen have grenades, have you heard

:23:40. > :23:46.any explosions? No, well, I heard one explosion, but it could be like

:23:47. > :23:52.the military trying to get inside the hotel. It could be anything. But

:23:53. > :23:59.that was some time ago. Tell us who would stay at this hotel, who is it

:24:00. > :24:05.popular with? I mean, this hotel is mostly popular with foreign

:24:06. > :24:10.diplomats, people of the UN, businessmen flying in the country,

:24:11. > :24:13.military people, especially the French, the French operating in the

:24:14. > :24:18.country for the last few years, mostly in the North to fight the

:24:19. > :24:24.terrorists up there. It is mostly popular for foreign people and

:24:25. > :24:30.businessmen who come in the country. We are hearing that Malian special

:24:31. > :24:38.forces are at the scene of the hotel siege, they are giving... Oh, and

:24:39. > :24:42.France is providing logistics and intelligence support according to a

:24:43. > :24:47.French diplomatic source. We are hearing that security forces are

:24:48. > :24:50.storming the hotel. Can you hear, that is according to the AFP news

:24:51. > :24:54.agency, can you hear anything different at the moment? We are

:24:55. > :25:04.getting reports that the hotel is being stormed. Now? Before I could

:25:05. > :25:10.hear something. We know that they are gathering special forces, more

:25:11. > :25:16.people, in the area. Even the guards in the complex are well armed now.

:25:17. > :25:20.We are in the complex. How much security did you see when you left

:25:21. > :25:26.the hotel? What was there in terms of police, army and other security?

:25:27. > :25:31.Yeah, there was some people there, some police, and I saw some French

:25:32. > :25:37.guys as well, especially Malians, which escorted me home. But it was

:25:38. > :25:41.early time. I did not even finish my work-out, I did not have time to

:25:42. > :25:49.finish my work-out, I left early, or something? Which was just the

:25:50. > :25:55.beginning of the gathering of the forces. We are just getting reports

:25:56. > :26:00.from the news agencies all the time, we are hearing that around ten

:26:01. > :26:06.people have been evacuated from the hotel. Special forces have been able

:26:07. > :26:12.to liberate and free around ten people, that is according to the AFP

:26:13. > :26:16.news agency. There were also reports earlier that gunmen had let people

:26:17. > :26:24.go if they were able to recite verses of the Koran. The Koran, that

:26:25. > :26:32.is correct. I mean, if they are trying... If they try and ask them

:26:33. > :26:37.to, you know, say something from the Koran, it seems to be obvious, the

:26:38. > :26:43.motive behind this operation, this terrorist attack, what they are

:26:44. > :26:47.trying to do. It is a hotel that, as you say, you use on a daily basis,

:26:48. > :26:55.have you been concerned about security? Well, I was a bit

:26:56. > :27:03.concerned, but we have, in the last few days, there was a mining

:27:04. > :27:09.conference here, and there were many foreign people, and it was nice and

:27:10. > :27:15.quiet, so to be honest with you, I did not really believe anything like

:27:16. > :27:20.that would happen today or especially at this time in the

:27:21. > :27:27.morning. This is not the time that, you know, the flight crews or people

:27:28. > :27:31.check in. You mentioned foreign diplomats, people working for the

:27:32. > :27:37.UN, militarily staying at that hotel. Yeah. Is it popular with

:27:38. > :27:45.tourists? I mean, I would say the Radisson hotel, it is like, you

:27:46. > :27:50.would say like most companies are there, where expats go for

:27:51. > :28:00.restaurants and for drinks, this is the area where they live as well. So

:28:01. > :28:06.this is a place which is under threat, which it was today. Michael,

:28:07. > :28:10.thank you very much indeed for joining us, Michael managed to

:28:11. > :28:16.escape from the hotel in Bamako, where he had been using the gym. He

:28:17. > :28:20.was in the gym as events were unfolding and got away safely to his

:28:21. > :28:24.home nearby. Ben Geoghegan is here, staying across all the latest

:28:25. > :28:28.developments, bring us up to date. The latest we have had, a number of

:28:29. > :28:34.people, I think around ten people, being evacuated from the hotel as a

:28:35. > :28:39.was old of the security forces going in there. It appears as though they

:28:40. > :28:44.may have rescued them. -- as a result. But as they went through the

:28:45. > :28:50.hotel, there was a number of witnesses who saw the body of a man

:28:51. > :28:55.lying on the floor, so that is the latest report we have had, but the

:28:56. > :29:01.bigger picture is of about 170 people, earlier this morning, taken

:29:02. > :29:05.hostage at the hotel, 140 guests, 30 employees. I think there are now

:29:06. > :29:09.more reports than there were of the number of being gunmen being around

:29:10. > :29:14.ten, rather than two, which is what the hotel owners said in a

:29:15. > :29:18.statement, just two gunmen. More reports are now suggesting there

:29:19. > :29:21.were more gunmen than that. They broke through a security barrier,

:29:22. > :29:27.went into the hotel. As we have heard from our own reporter in the

:29:28. > :29:32.Beijing, apparently they went straight up to the seventh floor. We

:29:33. > :29:39.don't know why, but apparently they targeted that area have the hotel.

:29:40. > :29:43.-- -- our reporter in the region. The US and French embassy say they

:29:44. > :29:48.want their people to stay indoors, the Americans describing this as an

:29:49. > :29:55.ongoing shooter situation. The British Embassy in London is saying

:29:56. > :29:58.are urgently trying to find out if British nationals are trapped in the

:29:59. > :30:01.hotel, a very international place, likely to be tourists, business

:30:02. > :30:08.people, diplomats, military officials from all over the world.

:30:09. > :30:13.This is an ongoing hostage situation, very different,

:30:14. > :30:19.obviously, from Paris, which will be fresh in people's mines. Yes,

:30:20. > :30:23.totally indiscriminate. It looks as though, from some of the reports,

:30:24. > :30:27.and again we must be careful about repeating all of this, but some

:30:28. > :30:30.reports are suggesting that the hostage-takers have read a number of

:30:31. > :30:34.people once they have been able to test their knowledge of the Koran, a

:30:35. > :30:38.number of people having been released at they have been able to

:30:39. > :30:43.recite passages from the Koran, so a hostage situation, we do not know if

:30:44. > :30:46.there are demands they are likely to make, it seems as though they are

:30:47. > :30:52.dividing people up, deciding to keep some and release others.

:30:53. > :31:02.The Reuters news agency says that French nationals are among those

:31:03. > :31:06.held up, according to a source close to President Hollande. French people

:31:07. > :31:10.are present and the president is following the situation closely.

:31:11. > :31:16.Separately, a diplomatic force says that Marley and special forces are

:31:17. > :31:21.up the scene and France is providing logistical support -- says that

:31:22. > :31:26.Malian special forces are at the seams. Apparently the gunmen

:31:27. > :31:32.attacking the hotel were shouting Islamic slogans. And also there are

:31:33. > :31:37.reports that they have apparently allowed some people to go if they

:31:38. > :31:41.could recite verses of the Koran. The French will be incredibly

:31:42. > :31:44.anxious, wondering whether they have somehow been targeted. It is a

:31:45. > :31:49.former French colony and the Frenchman Terry went in to disrupt

:31:50. > :31:54.the insurgency a couple of years ago -- and the French military went in.

:31:55. > :31:59.We just don't know whether they have been targeted, whether they were a

:32:00. > :32:03.particular target or they have just been caught up along with several

:32:04. > :32:12.dozens of other people who it seems are still being held hostage at this

:32:13. > :32:17.hotel. So these are the first moving pictures that we have from the

:32:18. > :32:22.scene. Looking at these pictures that we have, there does not seem to

:32:23. > :32:31.be a huge amount of movement around outside. We are seeing these UN

:32:32. > :32:36.vans, another vehicle, but as we understand the it is personnel from

:32:37. > :32:40.the UN and local security and French army dividing logistical support.

:32:41. > :32:44.And the local police, by the looks about the occult. You do not know

:32:45. > :32:49.where these pictures are being taken from, a cord and has probably been

:32:50. > :32:53.set up for away from the hotel. We don't know if this is close to the

:32:54. > :32:58.hotel or some distance. The traffic seems to be moving reasonably

:32:59. > :33:01.freely. I was looking at footage filmed from the hotel by a Chinese

:33:02. > :33:06.tourist which came upon social media. That seemed to show empty

:33:07. > :33:13.streets below the hotel itself. Difficult to say how many security

:33:14. > :33:18.forces are there. You would imagine that, given what has gone on in the

:33:19. > :33:22.country for some time, in an area like that the securities says would

:33:23. > :33:27.have been ready to deploy fairly quickly and we would expect quite a

:33:28. > :33:31.large presence by now. We have a reports of at least three hostages

:33:32. > :33:37.killed. This is just one news agency, AFP, no further

:33:38. > :33:42.confirmation, but AFP says the country's security minister has said

:33:43. > :33:45.security forces are stalling the establishment and there are reports

:33:46. > :33:53.that at least three hostages have been killed. -- storming the

:33:54. > :33:57.establishment. It sounds like there is a storming under way as the

:33:58. > :34:01.security forces tried to bring this hostagetaking to an end, but these

:34:02. > :34:06.are reports, we are finding it difficult to get reports on the

:34:07. > :34:12.ground. This is the latest from AFP, one of the big agencies, saying

:34:13. > :34:16.three hostages have been killed. I think the same agency reported that

:34:17. > :34:21.security forces had gone into the hotel and managed to allow ten or so

:34:22. > :34:33.people to escape. There were reports of a wad Eli Ying on the floor. -- a

:34:34. > :34:40.body lying on the floor. It is possible. It does look as though

:34:41. > :34:49.that may have been fatalities, people may have been killed. The

:34:50. > :34:53.latest copy from AFP quotes a spokesperson talking about what is

:34:54. > :35:03.happening right now in terms of storming the hotel. They are saying

:35:04. > :35:07.that there are two to three hostage-takers? We have had

:35:08. > :35:10.conflicting reports. Several reports say as many as ten. You would

:35:11. > :35:15.imagine that to mount an operation like this, perhaps the terrorists

:35:16. > :35:21.would go in with more than two people. It is quite a large hotel,

:35:22. > :35:24.190 rooms. They may not be able to gain control in the way that they

:35:25. > :35:30.seem to have done with just two people. It would make sense that

:35:31. > :35:35.there would perhaps be more than that. It is one of those things, we

:35:36. > :35:42.don't know for sure. Conflicting reports, people say only two gunman,

:35:43. > :35:47.others say ten. The company that owns the hotel, in its statement a

:35:48. > :35:55.little while ago, said they thought there were just two hostage-takers.

:35:56. > :36:00.We are hearing from the US Embassy in Mali that it is asking citizens

:36:01. > :36:06.to shelter in place. The French authorities are also saying that any

:36:07. > :36:10.French citizens must shelter. In terms of nationalities involved in

:36:11. > :36:14.this hostagetaking, Turkish Airlines say that six employees were in the

:36:15. > :36:21.hotel. We have had reports of some Chinese in the hotel and French

:36:22. > :36:30.presidential sources say there were some French in the hotel, but we

:36:31. > :36:35.don't have numbers. The AFP, sorry, the AP newsagency is quoting

:36:36. > :36:38.somebody who has been able to leave the hotel. She was a guest and

:36:39. > :36:44.managed to leave with six other people. They were escorted out by

:36:45. > :36:47.security forces as the gunman reportedly rushed towards the fifth

:36:48. > :36:52.or sixth floor. She said, I think they are still there, I have left

:36:53. > :36:57.the hotel, I don't know where to go, I am tired and in shock.

:36:58. > :37:01.Earlier we spoke to a man who lives just by the hotel, he was in the

:37:02. > :37:06.hotel as this was unfolding, using the gym. He said he did not yet

:37:07. > :37:11.anything as he was listening to music. It was only when he left the

:37:12. > :37:15.gym that he saw blitz on the floor and realise that something was under

:37:16. > :37:22.way -- bullet is on the floor. He returned safely home.

:37:23. > :37:25.Let's bring in someone from the Africa programme at Chatham House,

:37:26. > :37:32.which specialises in the Central African Republic. There are 170

:37:33. > :37:37.hostages, we understand, inside this hotel. What is your perspective? It

:37:38. > :37:41.is very hard to tell exactly what is happening on the ground with all

:37:42. > :37:46.these crisis situations, but the more important background is that on

:37:47. > :37:49.the one hand, the jihadists in Mali have been losing political ground.

:37:50. > :37:54.There was a peace agreement in the middle of this year between the

:37:55. > :37:58.non-jihadi rebels campaigning for autonomy for the North, and the

:37:59. > :38:02.Government. That is shifting the political momentum a little bit

:38:03. > :38:08.against the radicals. They then fought back. We have had a series of

:38:09. > :38:14.attacks. There was a hotel siege in a small town in the centre of the

:38:15. > :38:17.country in August. The Malian special forces managed to end bad,

:38:18. > :38:22.but there was considerable loss of life. In October, in a recording

:38:23. > :38:30.which is only just emerged, one of the leaders of the original jihadi

:38:31. > :38:33.takeover of northern Mali basically reaffirmed his face in the jihadist

:38:34. > :38:40.struggle, rejected the peace deal outright. Last week a senior figure

:38:41. > :38:46.in the FLM, and the jihadist group, was captured by security forces. In

:38:47. > :38:49.some ways, they are on the defensive, politically, but in

:38:50. > :38:54.security terms, because they have moved from conventional combat to

:38:55. > :38:57.scatter-gun terrorism, if you like, all over the country, it is very

:38:58. > :39:01.difficult to tackle because you never know when the next attack will

:39:02. > :39:08.be. There have been attacks pretty much all over Mali this year. The

:39:09. > :39:13.situation predates Paris. The French are caught up in Mali, a former

:39:14. > :39:21.French colony. Their military has been on the ground in Mali. Some

:39:22. > :39:25.might wonder whether this is another attack on France? As far as the

:39:26. > :39:31.jihadists are concerned, they will see it as an attack on France. The

:39:32. > :39:36.devices -- decisive factor in the crisis at two or three years ago was

:39:37. > :39:41.when the Malian government, with the support of the whole population,

:39:42. > :39:44.pretty much, the French army intervened decisively to end the

:39:45. > :39:48.jihadist takeover in the north of the country. There is very little

:39:49. > :39:54.popular support for the jihadist agenda at all in Mali. Islam in Mali

:39:55. > :40:01.is traditionally very relaxed, tolerant, pluralistic. The country

:40:02. > :40:05.has quite a long democratic culture. Jihadism is very much in variance

:40:06. > :40:10.with Malian traditions. But because the French played that critical role

:40:11. > :40:17.in 2013, and maintain a force in the north of the country, basically

:40:18. > :40:21.helping the Malian Army tackle terrorism, that means that anything

:40:22. > :40:24.French in some ways will be viewed as a target. A very different attack

:40:25. > :40:31.from what we have just seen happening in Paris. Talking to one

:40:32. > :40:41.expert who was saying that this is Al-Qaeda affiliated militants rather

:40:42. > :40:47.than Isis militants? It is hard to define. With these international

:40:48. > :40:51.terrorist franchises, people can announce that they are the local arm

:40:52. > :40:57.of this or that movement, it is quite hard to pin down. But one of

:40:58. > :41:03.the main groups that led the jihadist takeover of northern Mali

:41:04. > :41:07.back in 2012 was Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Maghreb, which was formerly

:41:08. > :41:11.affiliated to Al-Qaeda. What we don't know about many recent

:41:12. > :41:18.incident, some of them may have connections to that group. Some of

:41:19. > :41:22.them may be linked to other groups. The hotel siege in August seems to

:41:23. > :41:27.have been essentially a local preacher with some violent followers

:41:28. > :41:31.tapping into certain local grievances among sections of the

:41:32. > :41:37.community and attracting some local young men to join his group. That is

:41:38. > :41:40.very different to the, how can one put it, international jihadist

:41:41. > :41:45.involved in the crisis of three years ago. At this stage in this

:41:46. > :41:55.stage we do not know who the gunman are. They could have been motivated

:41:56. > :41:59.by both local factors and this international wider agenda.

:42:00. > :42:03.Everybody in Mali, cost the country has very close links to France,

:42:04. > :42:09.everyone not only will have seen the news from Paris but many people will

:42:10. > :42:17.know people in front. -- in France. There have been cases in the French

:42:18. > :42:20.siege back in January, the siege in the Jewish supermarket, it was a

:42:21. > :42:25.Malian resident in France who rescued many of the hostages,

:42:26. > :42:31.somebody working in the supermarket. There is quite a strong connection.

:42:32. > :42:35.It is quite possible but French events have triggered this.

:42:36. > :42:37.Let's bring in Ben Geoghegan, staying across the latest

:42:38. > :42:43.developments. A report has come in that 20 of the

:42:44. > :42:49.hostages have been released or evacuated by the security forces. A

:42:50. > :42:51.number of reports quoting a Malian government minister saying at least

:42:52. > :42:55.three of the hostages have been killed. The minister said security

:42:56. > :43:00.forces were storming the building and had managed to free around ten

:43:01. > :43:04.of those detained. I think that number has perhaps gone up to 20. It

:43:05. > :43:08.looks as though this operation is still under way but it seems like

:43:09. > :43:13.the security forces are having some success. One of the line is that

:43:14. > :43:19.President Obama has been briefed on this attack by the national security

:43:20. > :43:26.adviser, he is following events as well. Ben thank you very much. You

:43:27. > :43:34.have been watching our continuing coverage of events in Mali, where a

:43:35. > :43:41.hotel siege is under way. 170 hostages reportedly held in Bisla

:43:42. > :43:46.three -- this luxury hotel in Bamako, the capital of Mali.

:43:47. > :43:50.Continuing coverage on BBC news throughout the day. I will say

:43:51. > :43:53.goodbye. Have a lovely weekend. See you soon.