01/12/2015

:00:11. > :00:13.Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanne Gosling,

:00:14. > :00:21.This morning - Jamie Oliver tells this programme

:00:22. > :00:29.there should be age restrictions on energy drinks to protect our kids.

:00:30. > :00:35.I've spent a lot of time in schools. When you see young kids pulling out

:00:36. > :00:42.energy drinks, that is upsetting. They drink them, they shouldn't be

:00:43. > :00:45.able to, you know, it's a problem. Absolutely for energy drinks there

:00:46. > :00:48.should be age restrictions on the packaging, for sure.

:00:49. > :00:54.All this week on the programme we're looking at the best ways

:00:55. > :00:57.of tackling childhood obesity - today we're looking at whether

:00:58. > :01:04.manufacturers can do more to reduce the sugar content in our food.

:01:05. > :01:12.The sugar adds to the sweetness, but it adds to the texture. It has a

:01:13. > :01:14.caramel to it. We eat with your eyes, if it doesn't look nice we'll

:01:15. > :01:16.not eat it. Also on the programme -

:01:17. > :01:19.David Cameron says air strikes in Syria are "the right thing to do"

:01:20. > :01:22.- but Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn Mps on both sides are now

:01:23. > :01:40.deciding how to vote. I'm not convinced they have learned

:01:41. > :01:45.the lessons of Iraq, Libya. You have got to have boots on the ground. I'm

:01:46. > :01:51.confused, which is, I'm afraid to say, not a new thing over the last

:01:52. > :01:54.couple of weeks. And a group that claims to hate and resent

:01:55. > :01:56.couple of weeks. And a group that on the tube telling them they are a

:01:57. > :02:00.fat, ugly human. We'll hear from on the tube telling them they are a

:02:01. > :02:10.some of the people who've received the cards.

:02:11. > :02:13.Hello and welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News

:02:14. > :02:23.Your contributions to this programme and your expertise really is key

:02:24. > :02:26.actually, texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:27. > :02:31.Later on the programme, we'll talk to a model who was told to lose

:02:32. > :02:34.weights and get down to the bone. She tells us why she is taking a

:02:35. > :02:39.petition to Downing Street, calling for a law to protect young models

:02:40. > :02:48.from being pressurised into becoming dangerously thin. Your contributions

:02:49. > :02:52.are key. You can watch the programme online wherever you are.

:02:53. > :02:55.You can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

:02:56. > :02:59.by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire.

:03:00. > :03:01.All this week on the programme we're looking at

:03:02. > :03:05.the best ways of tackling childhood obesity - a problem which could soon

:03:06. > :03:09.cost us more than smoking, war, alcohol and climate change.

:03:10. > :03:12.Some supermarket ready meals contain twice as much sugar as a can

:03:13. > :03:16.of fizzy drink, and some children's snacks have more sugar than

:03:17. > :03:21.This week a group of Mps have said the government has got to get tough

:03:22. > :03:25.on the food industry if we're going to tackle rising levels of obesity.

:03:26. > :03:29.It backed calls from Public Health England for

:03:30. > :03:34.with companies set targets to slowly cut the amount in our foods.

:03:35. > :03:39.But how easy is it to just strip out sugar?

:03:40. > :03:42.And how will you feel if our favourite treats start

:03:43. > :03:51.Our reporter Jim Reed has been looking into it.

:03:52. > :03:54.One medical condition will soon cost us more than smoking, war,

:03:55. > :04:11.The country's most senior doctor has warned that overweight is fast

:04:12. > :04:18.becoming the norm in British society.

:04:19. > :04:20.So the question for government, for doctors,

:04:21. > :04:27.how do we start to tackle what many think is the biggest threat to

:04:28. > :04:41.Gingerbread men, chocolate, Advent calendars, selection boxes.

:04:42. > :04:45.For many of us it is the sweetest month of the year.

:04:46. > :05:02.But is there any alternative to all this sugar?

:05:03. > :05:05.We've come to the Christmas market in Chester to test a pile

:05:06. > :05:12.Hi, do you want to try some of our sugar free and non-sugar free

:05:13. > :05:19.They taste like Easter egg chocolate.

:05:20. > :05:22.Typical cheap Advent calendar chocolate!

:05:23. > :05:25.One of these is sugar free and one of these is full of normal sugar.

:05:26. > :05:41.This will sound really horrible, but I have made better biscuits

:05:42. > :05:50.There is a bit of an aftertaste but it's OK.

:05:51. > :05:52.Yeah, but I feel like that's going to be a trick, but

:05:53. > :06:03.What we were trying to do tonight is an extreme example

:06:04. > :06:06.of what the health authorities say we have to do as a nation, which is

:06:07. > :06:09.to gradually reduce the amount of sugar in some of our packaged food.

:06:10. > :06:13.That might sound strange but it is an idea that has worked before with

:06:14. > :06:16.another substance, and it worked so effectively that millions of us did

:06:17. > :06:24.# There spreads the name and sterling fame # Of tasty

:06:25. > :06:30.50 years ago everyday products from bread to tinned vegetables

:06:31. > :06:34.Then government got involved, targets were set and a typical loaf

:06:35. > :06:38.of bread has 40% less salt today than it did in the 1980s.

:06:39. > :06:50.Now can we do the same thing with sugar?

:06:51. > :06:53.This is what happens behind closed doors when

:06:54. > :06:59.A colossal trade show to sell the stuff we might be eating

:07:00. > :07:08.Fresh and low-calorie. It is really hard to give you a sense

:07:09. > :07:14.But walking through the stands here, there must be hundreds and hundreds

:07:15. > :07:20.The first thing you notice when you walk through is that almost every

:07:21. > :07:23.stand, every company, is touting some sort of health benefit.

:07:24. > :07:25.Over there it is a new high protein ice drink.

:07:26. > :07:29.Over there, age healthier with that company.

:07:30. > :07:37.It is almost impossible to avoid those health messages from the food

:07:38. > :07:40.One of the next changes you can expect to see is the growth

:07:41. > :07:53.This plant, Stevia, is 200 times as sweet, with none of the calories.

:07:54. > :07:56.Unheard of four years ago, it is already used in dozens

:07:57. > :08:02.Often it is introduced gradually and buried away deep

:08:03. > :08:07.Would the consumer know that there is this in the product?

:08:08. > :08:12.It does not really depend on us as a supplier but every single

:08:13. > :08:14.brand owner, manufacturer, some of them will actually list

:08:15. > :08:23.It could be for various reasons, because it's

:08:24. > :08:29.an everyday product and they don't want to confuse consumers.

:08:30. > :08:32.For a big supermarkets it's that same juggling act.

:08:33. > :08:36.They say they want to move people away from unhealthy foods but can't

:08:37. > :08:43.There's a huge danger that customers know what they like,

:08:44. > :08:48.And unfortunately, there's a real gradual experience they need to go

:08:49. > :08:55.If you take all of the salt out of a ready meal, for example,

:08:56. > :09:01.It will taste bland, it will taste manufactured -

:09:02. > :09:05.even more manufactured - and it's not what they want or we want.

:09:06. > :09:08.We can't just take a population who are ingrained in their eating habits

:09:09. > :09:30.We're in the high tech kitchen of what used to be the agricultural

:09:31. > :09:33.college in Nottingham, learning how to bake a cake the right way.

:09:34. > :09:41.What we're doing next is we're going to add the sugar or sugar substitute

:09:42. > :09:44.to the margarine and cream it together in true Mary Berry style,

:09:45. > :09:51.bless her, and then add the eggs, add the flour and then cook them.

:09:52. > :09:54.Here's another thing with sugar - it doesn't just affect the taste

:09:55. > :10:01.And that is causing us real problems.

:10:02. > :10:04.Sugar has functions within the recipe.

:10:05. > :10:10.The sugar adds to the sweetness and the pleasant flavour.

:10:11. > :10:14.But also it adds texture to it and it also has a caramelising

:10:15. > :10:25.If it does not look nice we're not going to eat it.

:10:26. > :10:32.If you start to take sugar away from it, those things will change.

:10:33. > :10:36.After a few hours, seven different cakes, all with different levels

:10:37. > :10:51.You could market it again as a rustic product.

:10:52. > :10:54.But once you taste it, my word, it is revolting.

:10:55. > :10:58.These two are quite acceptable as cakes,

:10:59. > :11:01.as long as you understand that they've got the rustic cracked top.

:11:02. > :11:06.Some people might not find that attractive.

:11:07. > :11:10.This one was far too sweet and left a really awful chemical

:11:11. > :11:17.In fact I can still taste it now and I have had several glasses of water.

:11:18. > :11:20.And this is what we do when we reformulate.

:11:21. > :11:23.It is a sort of a juggling to get the correct texture, the correct

:11:24. > :11:27.colour, the correct cost, because of course the artificial sweeteners

:11:28. > :11:36.OK, so a dry sponge is a long way from the treats

:11:37. > :11:42.But if obesity is, as the Government says, the biggest

:11:43. > :11:46.public health threat facing our children, we might have to accept

:11:47. > :11:53.The companies selling us that stuff will have to work harder to come up

:11:54. > :11:56.with recipes that are not just good for our palate, but good

:11:57. > :12:07.Later in the programme we'll hear from Jamie Oliver who tells us he

:12:08. > :12:09.wants to see age restrictions introduced for energy drinks.

:12:10. > :12:12.Watch that full interview after 10 this morning.

:12:13. > :12:19.Lots of you getting in touch about this.

:12:20. > :12:27.Morag says it's not difficult. Our eight-year-old's only been offered

:12:28. > :12:32.water and milk. Bob says I agree with Jamie, the energy drinks are a

:12:33. > :12:35.modern scourge full of caffeine and sugar and I see youngsters drinking

:12:36. > :12:50.them. One woman is taking a petition all

:12:51. > :12:52.the way to Downing Street. She tells us why the fashion industry thinks

:12:53. > :12:54.zero size models are fine. Doing the numbers game -

:12:55. > :13:03.the Government thinks it can win, Government ministers are meeting

:13:04. > :13:08.this morning and are expected to support the

:13:09. > :13:12.calling of a Commons debate and vote tomorrow, on expanding the RAF air

:13:13. > :13:15.strikes against so-called Islamic The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn -

:13:16. > :13:21.who'd called for a longer debate - has accused the Prime Minister

:13:22. > :13:24.of a "rush to war". Psychiatrists have concluded that

:13:25. > :13:26.the Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe,

:13:27. > :13:29.is no longer mentally ill. They are recommending he's

:13:30. > :13:38.transferred to The final decision

:13:39. > :13:40.on moving him will be made by the There'll be major disruption

:13:41. > :13:45.across the NHS in England today - despite a decision to call off

:13:46. > :13:52.a 24-hour strike by junior doctors. thousands of patients who'll have

:13:53. > :13:55.to reschedule their appointments. An interim deal was reached last

:13:56. > :13:58.night when the Government suspended Jamie Oliver has told this programme

:13:59. > :14:04.there ought to be age restrictions on energy drinks to prevent young

:14:05. > :14:06.children from drinking them in schools. The celebrity chef, who's

:14:07. > :14:10.campaigning for a sugar tax, says sugar is "without doubt" as serious

:14:11. > :14:23.a threat to the nation's health as I've spent a lot of time in primary

:14:24. > :14:29.schools around the world and in Britain and when you see seven and

:14:30. > :14:32.eight-year-old kids pulling out cans of energy drink, you know, all the

:14:33. > :14:35.brands, with caffeine and all sorts of things in there, that is

:14:36. > :14:39.upsetting and when the kids drink them, which they are not allowed to,

:14:40. > :14:42.but they get them, there's no standard for lunch boxes in this

:14:43. > :14:45.country, it's a problem. So absolutely there should be age

:14:46. > :14:47.restrictions on the front of packs, for sure.

:14:48. > :14:50.Wales has become the first nation in the UK to make every adult a

:14:51. > :14:54.potential organ donor. Under the system of "presumed consent", anyone

:14:55. > :14:58.who doesn't want to donate will have to opt out. That's already the case

:14:59. > :15:01.in more than twenty European countries, including Belgium, where

:15:02. > :15:06.Hywel Griffith has been to see how it works.

:15:07. > :15:13.A life transformed by the gift of donation.

:15:14. > :15:17.In the Belgian city of Ghent, a patient receives new lungs and a

:15:18. > :15:22.live, multiple organ transplants like this are more common in Belgium

:15:23. > :15:27.than in the UK. The supply of organs is simply greater. The law changed

:15:28. > :15:31.here in Belgium back in 1986 with very litp opposition. It seems

:15:32. > :15:35.everyone accepts they are a potential donor unless they choose

:15:36. > :15:41.to opt out. In practise, only about 2% of people here do so which offers

:15:42. > :15:44.huge help for Belgian patients. The organs donated in Wales won't all

:15:45. > :15:49.stay in Wales, they'll still be shared across Britain. According to

:15:50. > :15:53.the woman who chaired the last UK transplant review, the new laws are

:15:54. > :15:59.unlikely to come to England any time soon. We have to wait and see what

:16:00. > :16:04.happens. It's difficult to know. In countries they introduce presumed

:16:05. > :16:10.consent, the numbers went down. It's a finely balanced judgment. 3% of

:16:11. > :16:14.people in Wales had decided to opt out, following Belgium's example, it

:16:15. > :16:17.seems most are happy to be donors by default.

:16:18. > :16:20.The schools inspectorate Ofsted has warned of a growing north-south

:16:21. > :16:23.divide in the standard of secondary education, and says the children of

:16:24. > :16:28.It found many schools in the Midlands and north of England

:16:29. > :16:31.were not good enough and said the problem cannot be explained away

:16:32. > :16:37.by the higher levels of economic deprivation in the two areas.

:16:38. > :16:39.Small firms and rural homes are still missing

:16:40. > :16:42.Research carried out by Ofcom suggests that one

:16:43. > :16:46.and a half million homes in rural areas can't get the minimum speed.

:16:47. > :16:52.The Government says all homes and businesses should have access

:16:53. > :16:56.It also says fairy lights could be slowing down the speed

:16:57. > :17:09.We were very struck by the research. It looks like 6 million

:17:10. > :17:13.homes that might be having problems with broadband could be down to the

:17:14. > :17:19.Wi-Fi connection, the richer, and easy things can cause interference

:17:20. > :17:34.which can slow down speeds. We will be finding out why they 10am. Now

:17:35. > :17:39.the spot. British tennis, all the highlights after the Davis cup

:17:40. > :17:43.winner, today the headlines have gone from smiles to thrones after

:17:44. > :17:46.Andy Murray revealed he did not know where might the next generation of

:17:47. > :17:54.players will come from. That dominates the papers. He says the

:17:55. > :18:06.Lawn Tennis Association have felt to build on his successes. Murray says

:18:07. > :18:16.they never get anything done. The world number two saying he would

:18:17. > :18:18.rather concentrate on his own game. It will not make for pretty reading

:18:19. > :18:22.for tennis bosses. We will be speaking to our correspondent just

:18:23. > :18:26.10am. We will look at the nominees for sports personality of the year.

:18:27. > :18:30.The public will have the chance to vote on the night of the 20th of

:18:31. > :18:39.December. We will look at the short list for that. England took the 2020

:18:40. > :18:45.series against Pakistan with a 3-0 win. Good news for cricket this

:18:46. > :18:50.morning anyway. I will be back just after 10am.

:18:51. > :18:53.There'll be major disruption in the NHS in England today

:18:54. > :18:56.despite a decision to call off a 24-hour strike by junior doctors.

:18:57. > :18:57.The British Medical Association agreed to suspend

:18:58. > :19:00.the walk-out following a last-minute breakthrough in talks last night.

:19:01. > :19:03.But it came too late for hospitals and more than 4,000 patients have

:19:04. > :19:07.Strikes have been put on hold until January to allow

:19:08. > :19:19.Here's a quick explainer of what doctors want.

:19:20. > :19:20.CHANTING: Save our NHS! Save our NHS!

:19:21. > :19:26.The priority at the moment is the thousands of people that we think

:19:27. > :19:28.are dying unnecessarily because we don't have proper cover for urgent

:19:29. > :19:57.They are trying to cut our pay when we are already overworked,

:19:58. > :20:30.underpaid, demoralised, and this is why people are going abroad.

:20:31. > :20:33.So how does the pay for junior doctors compare with other jobs?

:20:34. > :20:36.Let's start with what junior doctors get.

:20:37. > :20:40.According to the NHS Employers Organisation, the

:20:41. > :20:45.average total salary for a doctor in training is around ?36,000.

:20:46. > :20:49.The starting salary in their first year is ?23,000 for 40 hours a week,

:20:50. > :20:52.but many work far more hours than that and get paid for overtime.

:20:53. > :20:55.Some doctors are also in training for up to 14 years so

:20:56. > :21:02.Junior doctors also get more for working extra and anti-social

:21:03. > :21:05.hours - that's currently classified as anytime outside 7am to 7pm

:21:06. > :21:12.But the new contract changes anti-social hours to anytime outside

:21:13. > :21:15.7am to 10pm Monday to Saturday, making Saturday between 7am and

:21:16. > :21:25.It's all part of the drive towards seven-day working in the NHS.

:21:26. > :21:28.Working alongside doctors, a fully qualified nurse starts

:21:29. > :21:36.They get paid more for unsocial hours, which means those worked on

:21:37. > :21:38.Saturdays, Sundays, public holidays and on weekdays between 8pm and 6am.

:21:39. > :21:42.So what about outside the medical profession?

:21:43. > :21:46.Outside the medical profession, teachers start on ?19,000

:21:47. > :21:50.in primary school and ?23,000 in secondary school.

:21:51. > :21:52.39 weeks of the year are allocated for teaching

:21:53. > :21:59.In the emergency services, starting salary for

:22:00. > :22:07.This rises to ?28,000 when fully trained-up, and higher

:22:08. > :22:12.Working hours typically include regular unsocial hours.

:22:13. > :22:14.Firefighters work on average a 42-hour week

:22:15. > :22:32.Thank you for coming in. We talked to you before during the dispute.

:22:33. > :22:41.What are your thoughts? Initially I felt a great sense of relief. No

:22:42. > :22:43.doctor wanted to be in the position where they were actively withholding

:22:44. > :22:48.labour. However I do not think this is anything to celebrate. There has

:22:49. > :22:53.not been any victory as yet. There is a great deal of uncertainty.

:22:54. > :22:57.There is going to be some negotiations taking place between

:22:58. > :23:03.the British Medical Association, NHS employers and the Department of

:23:04. > :23:09.Health. That is a very good thing however there ultimately remains...

:23:10. > :23:13.The contract can still be imposed upon us and the threat to impose

:23:14. > :23:19.that has been temporarily is spend it so there is definitely welcome

:23:20. > :23:24.news that I still have concerns. What would you liked to see? It is

:23:25. > :23:27.being talked about as a breakthrough so there must have been movement on

:23:28. > :23:34.both sides. I think it is a breakthrough. Have you heard

:23:35. > :23:39.rumours? No. I am afraid not. I am looking forward to hearing from the

:23:40. > :23:47.BMA had talks proceed. A gas released a statement yesterday. I

:23:48. > :23:50.watched Jeremy Hunt's speech in the House of Commons yesterday. Finally

:23:51. > :23:55.he acknowledged that as we start to provide more and more elective

:23:56. > :23:58.services the pay bill will increase. That has been a great cause of

:23:59. > :24:04.concern for us that we were going to be asked to work more for less. The

:24:05. > :24:09.fact he has acknowledged that part of increasing 77 sees the pay bill

:24:10. > :24:16.will increase and he acknowledged that. That is welcome news for me as

:24:17. > :24:20.a doctor and I feel reassured we are not going to be doing more for

:24:21. > :24:23.less. The safeguards are going to be one of the big points for

:24:24. > :24:29.negotiation with the BMA and NHS employers. Looking at the safeguards

:24:30. > :24:34.and what mechanism they propose for making sure we do not work and

:24:35. > :24:37.seafarers will be very interesting point for discussion. The government

:24:38. > :24:41.says it is doing this to enable things to be better for patients for

:24:42. > :24:48.good seven-day week car. What do you say to those who say you are

:24:49. > :24:54.fighting against flexibility in reality that applies to most people?

:24:55. > :24:58.I do not think we are fighting against flexibility. The contract I

:24:59. > :25:03.have allows me to work night shift, seven days a week, the consultant

:25:04. > :25:10.contract accounts for seven days a week 52 weeks a year 365 days a year

:25:11. > :25:12.emergency service. That is not about fighting against flexibility. The

:25:13. > :25:19.explicit when you say you are fighting against flexibility. The

:25:20. > :25:22.less. What had been your fears about what you could have been working

:25:23. > :25:23.less. What had been your fears about the differential on pay? We get a

:25:24. > :25:28.rotor and at the moment my normal the differential on pay? We get a

:25:29. > :25:33.working hours are from ATM until 6pm. I do long days of this

:25:34. > :25:39.working hours are from ATM until I will be working from eight in the

:25:40. > :25:42.morning until 8:30pm. They look at the root of a period of time and if

:25:43. > :25:49.you look at the number of hours I work the average iWork is just under

:25:50. > :25:52.48 hours. How much I get paid is based upon the average amount of

:25:53. > :26:01.hours I work and the anti-social banding. Your question was to

:26:02. > :26:05.clarify... Whether it is the fight against flexibility. It sounds as if

:26:06. > :26:09.you work across seven days a week. You say you are happy that Jeremy

:26:10. > :26:14.Hunt has clarified that the pay bill will go up. In terms of the number

:26:15. > :26:17.of hours you work average out and the pay you are receiving

:26:18. > :26:18.of hours you work average out and look like there will be much

:26:19. > :26:27.difference and therefore you will be happy? I have not seen any offer.

:26:28. > :26:32.The final offer is to be negotiated. There are assurances, the assurances

:26:33. > :26:38.that no doctor will lose money. I am happy with that. I think we have to

:26:39. > :26:43.wait and find out what the outcome is with the BMA. The deadline for

:26:44. > :26:47.striking has been extended until January. It does not necessarily

:26:48. > :26:52.mean that strikes will not go ahead. I hope they do not but I do not

:26:53. > :26:58.think... This situation is far from resolved. The strike was called off

:26:59. > :27:02.but there is disruption anyway because thousands of operations were

:27:03. > :27:06.cancelled. What do you say to the bebop who have been directly

:27:07. > :27:13.impacted? I am incredibly sorry that has happened. It could have been

:27:14. > :27:17.averted if we had gone to Acas earlier. The BMA called for Acas as

:27:18. > :27:21.soon as the ballot was announced that Jeremy Hunt waited until late

:27:22. > :27:27.in the day for talks with Acas to commence. That left... There was no

:27:28. > :27:33.way the strike was going to be avoided up until the last minute.

:27:34. > :27:36.Because he delayed going to Acas. Talks with Acas could have been

:27:37. > :27:43.started far earlier and it could have been averted. Thank you. Let us

:27:44. > :27:50.know your thoughts on that strike and the fact it has been called off.

:27:51. > :27:57.Jamie Oliver tells us there should be Druze restrictions on energy

:27:58. > :28:01.drinks to protect our kids. Someone says if energy drinks or not

:28:02. > :28:07.desirable enough already, put on an age restriction. I work in a shop

:28:08. > :28:44.and we do not sell energy drinks to be blunders 16. Keep your thoughts

:28:45. > :28:50.coming in and you can watch the full interview after 10am. A model who

:28:51. > :28:54.was told she needed to lose weight before she would be signed up to an

:28:55. > :29:01.agency's Brooks is taking a petition to Downing Street.

:29:02. > :29:04.Rosie Nelson, who's 23 and a size 8 to 10 is

:29:05. > :29:06.calling for a law to protect young models from being pressurised

:29:07. > :29:09.She says agencies need to take more responsibility

:29:10. > :29:12.Over 113,000 people have backed her petition.

:29:13. > :29:15.She joins us now alongside Salome Munuo who is freelance

:29:16. > :29:21.fashion writer, who doesn't think size zero models should be banned.

:29:22. > :29:29.Thank you for coming in. You are going to MPs and want them to

:29:30. > :29:35.legislate. Why? How much of an issue is there? What about the pressure?

:29:36. > :29:40.Girls are not willing to speak up about it. I have been able to speak

:29:41. > :29:46.up about it and I am unique. The more awareness that is brought to it

:29:47. > :29:52.the more girls are willing to speak about it. No one speaks out. What

:29:53. > :29:57.ways have you seen of pressure being put on models, you or other models?

:29:58. > :30:00.I have had countless people messaging me telling me they have

:30:01. > :30:05.gone through the same thing, being told they have to lose weight and

:30:06. > :30:11.would not be signed unless they did. A lot of friends have had the same

:30:12. > :30:16.thing happen. I have been at shoots where girls will not eat and look

:30:17. > :30:23.really thin. When you say lose weight, what sort of shape our they

:30:24. > :30:29.in? What sort of ship were UN? When I went to the agency in London I was

:30:30. > :30:33.pretty much the size I am now, size eight and they said I needed to slim

:30:34. > :30:42.down more so I lost weight. How did they evaluate you? They measure you.

:30:43. > :30:48.They will say, you have to fix this and that. My hips were too big. They

:30:49. > :30:52.will say you have to get your measurements down. I lost five

:30:53. > :30:58.kilos. You were told to slim down to the bone. I went back again after I

:30:59. > :31:04.lost weight and I looked ill because I had lost so much weight. They

:31:05. > :31:08.said, we want you down to the bone. What is it in the fashion industry

:31:09. > :31:12.that makes there be desire for people like Rosie who is very slim

:31:13. > :31:21.and looks healthy to be even thinner? If it is not an accurate

:31:22. > :31:27.reflection of society. It stems from the shows, girls have to be... The

:31:28. > :31:32.designers want to show off their clothes in the best light. They

:31:33. > :31:44.choose girls that are very slim in order to highlight the clothes. They

:31:45. > :31:51.will go into different sizes to suit the market afterwards.

:31:52. > :31:56.So they are probably not representative of how they look in

:31:57. > :31:59.the end? It's always been that way traditionally, but do you know, I

:32:00. > :32:05.feel that things are changing, and... In what way? In France there

:32:06. > :32:11.is a BMI rule. Has that had an impact? Yes, because Paris Fashion

:32:12. > :32:14.Week is one of the top destinations for the shows. So the fact they have

:32:15. > :32:18.taken a stand, it's going to have a trickle effect. Can you see any

:32:19. > :32:23.difference? I haven't been keeping up with what France is doing at the

:32:24. > :32:27.moment, but... But models in generally, do they seem to be

:32:28. > :32:30.getting any bigger? During Fashion Week, it's very, very thin.

:32:31. > :32:37.Throughout the rest of the year, there is kind of becoming more of a

:32:38. > :32:40.cultural shift with it, so more sportswear is coming out and health

:32:41. > :32:43.consciousness is happening so there is a small change happening with

:32:44. > :32:50.certain brands but not with high fashion. Tell us what you want I

:32:51. > :32:56.mentioned the BMI rule in Paris? Most of all, I want models to be

:32:57. > :33:01.healthier. How do you define that? Not pushing themselves in drastic

:33:02. > :33:05.ways to lose weight, so not eating certain thing, girls are eating

:33:06. > :33:10.cotton wool and popcorn. Cot conwool? Yes, to fill up their

:33:11. > :33:14.stomachs. I've had a friend say that's what happened at the show, so

:33:15. > :33:17.girls do is such drastic things because they think modelling is

:33:18. > :33:21.going to be really promising, they want to be on the catwalk and do

:33:22. > :33:25.well and the agency want them to lose weight and you get praise if

:33:26. > :33:30.you are thin as well from the agencies. So do the agencies need to

:33:31. > :33:35.be told don't praise for thin? Yes. There needs to be a shift where

:33:36. > :33:39.agencies are more aware that healthiness is what is in, that

:33:40. > :33:42.should be the goal for the models, they shouldn't pressure the girls to

:33:43. > :33:47.lose weight but to be healthy. If you want legislation though, it

:33:48. > :33:52.has to be crystal clear, doesn't it so people can follow it, so what

:33:53. > :33:57.would the law say for you that would protect the models? Should agencies

:33:58. > :34:01.specifically be banned from telling a model to lose weight? I don't

:34:02. > :34:05.think the agencies will follow through with it, so I would like to

:34:06. > :34:11.see health checks put in place so if a model has to lose weight, she can

:34:12. > :34:14.do it responsibly, she can get health, nutritional advice and an

:34:15. > :34:18.exercise regime from a doctor rather than the agency say, lose weight and

:34:19. > :34:22.come back. Is hyper thin, to the extent that you are talking about,

:34:23. > :34:30.ever achievable in a healthy way? I don't think so. Unless you dedicate

:34:31. > :34:34.your life to it which a lot of models do, successful models can

:34:35. > :34:38.dedicate their life to being thin and eating healthily because they

:34:39. > :34:41.are successful already. The industry sees models as very disposable so

:34:42. > :34:46.the girls willing to two far for it are the ones that won't be modelling

:34:47. > :34:49.for the rest of their lives. So should side zero be band? I don't

:34:50. > :34:53.think banning anything is the right way to go about it. But when

:34:54. > :34:55.a girl and her bones are sticking out, that is not a good thing to

:34:56. > :34:59.portray to the out, that is not a good thing to

:35:00. > :35:07.What do you think, should side zero be banned? I don't think banning

:35:08. > :35:10.size zero is the way forward. I feel that educating the public through

:35:11. > :35:11.size zero is the way forward. I feel changes in the industry is the way

:35:12. > :35:18.forward. My view changes in the industry is the way

:35:19. > :35:23.petition is a great idea in principle, but

:35:24. > :35:36.long ago was it that you were told to slim down to

:35:37. > :35:39.long ago was it that you were told beginning of this year, but I only

:35:40. > :35:43.started my campaign two months ago and it's gotten this far. But the

:35:44. > :35:46.arguments about models being told to lose weight predate that, so the

:35:47. > :35:51.beginning of this year Rosie is told to slim down to the bone, should an

:35:52. > :35:54.agency be talking like that? No, they shouldn't. They should be

:35:55. > :36:02.encouraging healthy lifestyles, they shouldn't. They should be

:36:03. > :36:09.ways to slim down or to be in the best shape a model can be. Some are

:36:10. > :36:12.very naturally thin and can still live a healthy lifestyle and eat

:36:13. > :36:16.correctly and achieve live a healthy lifestyle and eat

:36:17. > :36:22.I think there is a growing demand for more of a natural figure and

:36:23. > :36:24.more shapely. I know editorially, from past experience, we are always

:36:25. > :36:28.encouraged to book girls that from past experience, we are always

:36:29. > :36:32.not too painfully thin. How does this impact on your career because

:36:33. > :36:37.you are gorgeous and you are very, very slim, could you go on a

:36:38. > :36:40.catwalk? No, I wouldn't be allowed on the catwalk, of

:36:41. > :36:41.catwalk? No, I wouldn't be allowed say of course not, everybody

:36:42. > :36:47.watching would be say, why ever not, say of course not, everybody

:36:48. > :36:51.there? Most of the catwalks on Fashion Week, they want girls with

:36:52. > :36:56.hips the size of about 34 inches and I'm about 36 so I'm two inches off.

:36:57. > :37:01.Designers just don't want that, they want all the girls to have the same

:37:02. > :37:06.figure so that the collection flows. Fashion Week is almost like an art

:37:07. > :37:10.collection for the designers to show their pieces off. There's no reason

:37:11. > :37:14.why that look can't be slightly bigger though.

:37:15. > :37:19.So this is your petition, going off to Downing Street later? Yes. Thank

:37:20. > :37:21.you so much. Lots of people getting in touch with us on this. We have

:37:22. > :37:27.got Sarah on text saying, I used to in touch with us on this. We have

:37:28. > :37:31.dance and was a told to lose weight. I am 5'7", went down to

:37:32. > :37:34.five-and-a-half stone, I'm now 52 and my

:37:35. > :37:43.five-and-a-half stone, I'm now 52 I can't eat. Anorexia's left me ill.

:37:44. > :37:48.Tom on Twitter says watching Rosie talk about her petition fascinating

:37:49. > :37:52.campaign, an anonymous texter says modelling legislation, vote with

:37:53. > :37:55.your feet and refuse. Thank you for all your comments. Do keep on

:37:56. > :37:57.getting in touch with your thoughts on that and everything else we talk

:37:58. > :38:09.about on the programme today. Psychiatrists have concluded that

:38:10. > :38:12.the Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe,

:38:13. > :38:14.is no longer mentally ill. They are recommending he's

:38:15. > :38:16.transferred to a specialist prison from Broadmoor

:38:17. > :38:18.high security hospital, where he's West Midlands police have released

:38:19. > :38:27.this video of a drunk driver being chased by police as he swerved

:38:28. > :38:29.along the M5 in Worcestershire Officers have released

:38:30. > :38:32.the video ahead of their christmas The 34-year-old driver was filmed

:38:33. > :38:40.in October driving at over 80mph. Still I've got a fail to stop, fail

:38:41. > :38:46.to stop. He's all over the road. We have got a stinger ready,

:38:47. > :38:50.keep it coming. It is the vehicle coming up

:38:51. > :38:55.towards you now, lane two. I think it has been stung

:38:56. > :39:28.but I am not 100% sure. Rory Cellan-Jones joins us now to

:39:29. > :39:33.talk about Wi-Fi. There is music coming from these lights. Who buys

:39:34. > :39:38.them, unless it's the BBC props department. This is about checking

:39:39. > :39:42.your Wi-Fi signal in your house. Ofcom released this Act today, it's

:39:43. > :39:49.available on apple phones and Android phones and it enables you to

:39:50. > :39:52.run a quick test. It looks at your Wi-Fi network and says, is it

:39:53. > :39:55.holding back your Broadband signal. It's not measuring the speed of your

:39:56. > :40:00.Broadband into your house which for many people is the real issue, it's

:40:01. > :40:03.when it goes into your house and round your house, how well is it

:40:04. > :40:07.doing. One of the things it points to is the potential for interference

:40:08. > :40:12.from other electrical devices, if you put your router round your house

:40:13. > :40:16.near to something else. So for instance, if you had fairy lights

:40:17. > :40:22.right next to the router, they could interfere with the signal. Why?

:40:23. > :40:27.Draining the power? No, it's because of radio interference. I mean, it's

:40:28. > :40:34.effectively a radio signal. Sit an excuse? I think it's it's a bit of

:40:35. > :40:40.an excuse. Experts say, this is one very minor reason. That is annoying!

:40:41. > :40:44.Another reason to put your router out in a good place, high up on a

:40:45. > :40:48.shelf rather than buried at the bottom of a shelf so the signal can

:40:49. > :40:52.be distributed more easily. The real issue for most is not how good the

:40:53. > :40:56.wireless network is, it's how good the signal coming into their home

:40:57. > :41:00.is. That's still the thing that's getting lots of people really cross

:41:01. > :41:05.at the moment. This is kind of distracting from that though to do

:41:06. > :41:10.isn't it? Yes. It isn't just fairy lights, they are talking about all

:41:11. > :41:14.sorts, baby monitors? Yes. If you put a monitor right next to thing

:41:15. > :41:19.electrical. So get everything else out the way then you can properly

:41:20. > :41:22.address the issue? Yes, then you can check if your Wi-Fi network is

:41:23. > :41:29.working properly. Then once you have decided that, you have other things

:41:30. > :41:34.to worry about which is why is it so slow coming into my house. There is

:41:35. > :41:39.nothing we can do to change that? We can put pressure on the companies to

:41:40. > :41:44.start to give us a better service, for instance to roll out fiber-optic

:41:45. > :41:47.cables which is the key to fast Broadband along every street. There

:41:48. > :41:54.is a debate whether they should be at a Cabinet at the side of the

:41:55. > :41:58.street or in our homes. How much progress is being made on that?

:41:59. > :42:03.Ofcom said overall, more than eight in ten homes can get super fast

:42:04. > :42:07.Broadband but they are worried about rural homes, one-and-a-half million

:42:08. > :42:12.rural homes that are just too far from the cabinets to get a decent

:42:13. > :42:16.connection and lots of small businesses on business parks where

:42:17. > :42:20.you would think things would be great, turns out BT and other

:42:21. > :42:24.companies haven't wired up the business parks, so a lot of the

:42:25. > :42:27.little companies are getting rubbish Broadband and they say it's

:42:28. > :42:32.affecting the way they can do business. The only thing to change

:42:33. > :42:36.it is for more infrastructure to be built in, but I guess in rural

:42:37. > :42:39.areas, it's not so commercially viable? Well, there's been

:42:40. > :42:46.Government money into that and there is an inquiry by Ofcom into what

:42:47. > :42:49.happens next. There is a debate about whether BT Open Reach should

:42:50. > :42:53.be split off, which is what its rivals Shay should happen, an be an

:42:54. > :42:58.independent pores force, then there would be more investment. BT says

:42:59. > :43:04.that's not the way forward, but that is what Ofcom is deciding tonne way

:43:05. > :43:10.forward. -- rivals say should happen. That music is driving me

:43:11. > :43:12.crazy. I don't think they'll be on the Christmas tree at home. Thank

:43:13. > :43:14.you very much. Let's catch up with the weather now

:43:15. > :43:24.with Alex. You are going to have to compete

:43:25. > :43:29.against that music I'm afraid. It's driving me mad already. It's

:43:30. > :43:33.1st December today. Weather-wise, the first day of winter. That is how

:43:34. > :43:38.we measure winter. First day of Advent and I have some Christmassy

:43:39. > :43:46.pictures to show you. Take a lack at this. Dachshund through the snow.

:43:47. > :43:51.See what I did there? ! A little girl, Ira, just delightful. These

:43:52. > :43:56.pictures taken through the weekend in Scotland at the weekend. So

:43:57. > :43:59.sweet. Christmassy. That snow is probably melting as we speak because

:44:00. > :44:04.things are on the change weather-wise and it's the first day

:44:05. > :44:08.of winter weather-wise. Some people measure it difference but for

:44:09. > :44:11.climate reasons, our winter is December, January, February,

:44:12. > :44:17.breaking it down into three months because it makes it easier for the

:44:18. > :44:21.statistics. Summer is June, July, August. Another way of measuring the

:44:22. > :44:27.seasons, perhaps a more common way is to use the equinox and solstice,

:44:28. > :44:32.so at the moment we'd be in autumn. The winter, the shortest day, is not

:44:33. > :44:36.for a few weeks yet, 22nd December. That is part of the problem. Because

:44:37. > :44:42.the dates shift. For example, the autumn equinox can be on the 22nd,

:44:43. > :44:48.23rd or 24th. Are you keeping up? Yes. This is December 1st? Yes, you

:44:49. > :44:52.can do it this way, that is fine, but because the dates vary, it gets

:44:53. > :44:57.far more complicated and doesn't work statistically. Measuring

:44:58. > :44:59.climate, you need to keep things constant over time otherwise you are

:45:00. > :45:07.not comparing like with like. That is why we keep it simple and

:45:08. > :45:11.winster's started, spring starts on 1st March, summer 1st June. Will it

:45:12. > :45:19.be a mild winter? Mixed. This morning Cold in

:45:20. > :45:29.Scotland, warm in the south. There is an awful lot going on

:45:30. > :45:32.weather-wise. We have snow out there, pictures of snow across the

:45:33. > :45:37.Highlands. Yet for most of us, this was a more typical scene the morning

:45:38. > :45:40.in Warwickshire, just grey but really quite mild with temperatures

:45:41. > :45:52.well above the average for the time of year across much of the UK. This

:45:53. > :46:04.has been bringing some wet weather. We did see some snow through the

:46:05. > :46:10.course of the morning. That brought warmer air before the snow could get

:46:11. > :46:16.going. The snow is tending to disappeared as the warmer air pushes

:46:17. > :46:20.across more -- much of Scotland. The snow is likely to be disappearing

:46:21. > :46:25.because the temperatures are claiming. In Glasgow we could be in

:46:26. > :46:32.double figures. Most of the rest of the UK is great and my old. A lot of

:46:33. > :46:39.code around. Some breaks. Still breezy in the south but not as gusty

:46:40. > :46:43.as the past few days. Some rain and drizzle affecting the whole than the

:46:44. > :46:49.cost. Through the night it will stay mild. The warm air covering the UK.

:46:50. > :46:55.The winds are getting lively with gusts of 60 in the far north-west,

:46:56. > :46:59.70, as marine poos he's back in late in the night. Still mild. -- more

:47:00. > :47:07.rain in the night. Still mild. -- more

:47:08. > :47:11.temperatures than last night. The rain is going to

:47:12. > :47:12.temperatures than last night. The tomorrow. Temperatures will drop

:47:13. > :47:15.across tomorrow. Temperatures will drop

:47:16. > :47:17.but we will see something greater. tomorrow. Temperatures will drop

:47:18. > :47:20.Questions about the tomorrow. Temperatures will drop

:47:21. > :47:25.and how far south it will get but it will bring to a halt.

:47:26. > :47:37.north-west England and Wales having a very soggy day.

:47:38. > :47:39.north-west England and Wales having and double figures. Parts of

:47:40. > :47:43.Scotland and Northern Ireland turning colder. Bad weather front

:47:44. > :47:47.could give other few headaches. It is going to wiggle around over the

:47:48. > :47:51.next few days and marks the difference between the warmer air in

:47:52. > :47:56.the south and the colder air further north and will continue to bring

:47:57. > :48:01.rain. Much of the south-east stays dry, further not something greater

:48:02. > :48:04.but it will be colder. We will continue with this contrast until

:48:05. > :48:08.Friday when the rain shoots out of the way but there is more wet and

:48:09. > :48:12.windy weather to the far north-west that will swing across the UK as we

:48:13. > :48:16.go into the weekend. Quite a bit going on to say the least.

:48:17. > :48:19.Hello, it's just after 10am, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria.

:48:20. > :48:23.Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

:48:24. > :48:32.Jamie Oliver tells this programme there should be age restrictions on

:48:33. > :48:36.I have spent a primary schools around

:48:37. > :48:38.I have spent a in Britain and when you see

:48:39. > :48:40.seven-year-olds and eat-year-olds pulling out cans of

:48:41. > :48:43.seven-year-olds and eat-year-olds and you know the blood bill bands

:48:44. > :48:45.with caffeine, Today, we're looking at whether

:48:46. > :49:14.manufacturers can do more to reduce The sugar adds to the sweetness and

:49:15. > :49:20.the pleasant flavour but it also adds texture to it and it has a

:49:21. > :49:26.caramel lighting effect so it browns and so it is aesthetically pleasing

:49:27. > :49:28.and we eat with our eyes. If it does not look nice we are not going to

:49:29. > :49:29.eat it. Also on the programme,

:49:30. > :49:31.David Cameron says air strikes in Syria are "the right thing to

:49:32. > :49:34.do" but Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn MPs on both sides are now

:49:35. > :49:46.deciding how to vote. I am not yet convinced that they

:49:47. > :49:54.have lurked the lessons of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, to prove

:49:55. > :49:59.that it is possible to destroy a regime, you have to have boots on

:50:00. > :50:01.the ground. I am confused. That is not a new thing over the last couple

:50:02. > :50:06.of weeks. And a group that claims to "hate and

:50:07. > :50:10.resent fat people" has been handing out cards to women on the tube

:50:11. > :50:13.telling them they're a "fat, ugly human". We'll speak to some of the

:50:14. > :50:20.people who've received the cards. Cabinet ministers are meeting

:50:21. > :50:28.this morning and are expected to support the

:50:29. > :50:31.calling of a Commons debate and vote tomorrow, on expanding the RAF air

:50:32. > :50:34.strikes against so-called Islamic The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn -

:50:35. > :50:38.who'd called for a longer debate - has accused the Prime Minister

:50:39. > :50:41.of a "rush to war". Psychiatrists have concluded that

:50:42. > :50:42.the Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe,

:50:43. > :50:44.is no longer mentally ill. They are recommending he's

:50:45. > :50:48.transferred to a specialist prison from Broadmoor

:50:49. > :50:51.high security hospital, where he's The final decision

:50:52. > :50:55.on moving him will be made by the There'll be major disruption

:50:56. > :51:06.across the NHS in England today - despite a decision to call off

:51:07. > :51:08.a 24-hour strike by junior doctors. The move to suspend industrial

:51:09. > :51:11.action came too late for thousands of patients who'll have

:51:12. > :51:13.to reschedule their appointments. An interim deal was reached last

:51:14. > :51:16.night when the Government suspended Jamie Oliver has told this programme

:51:17. > :51:21.there ought to be age restrictions on energy drinks to prevent young

:51:22. > :51:24.children from drinking them The celebrity chef,

:51:25. > :51:29.who's campaigning for a sugar tax, says sugar is

:51:30. > :51:31."without doubt" as serious a threat I've spent a lot of time in primary

:51:32. > :51:39.schools around the world and in Britain and when you see seven and

:51:40. > :51:46.eight-year-old kids pulling out cans of energy drinks, you know, all the

:51:47. > :51:49.brands, with caffeine and all sorts of things in there,

:51:50. > :51:52.that is upsetting and when the kids drink them, which they are

:51:53. > :51:55.not allowed to, but they get them, there's no standard for lunch boxes

:51:56. > :51:58.in this country, it's a problem. So absolutely there should be age

:51:59. > :52:01.restrictions on the front of packs, Wales has become the first nation

:52:02. > :52:04.in the UK to make every adult Under the system of

:52:05. > :52:11."presumed consent", anyone who doesn't want to donate will have to

:52:12. > :52:13.register their objection. So far only three per cent

:52:14. > :52:18.of people have chosen to opt out. A model who was told she needed to

:52:19. > :52:21.lose weight and 'get down to the bone' before she would be signed up

:52:22. > :52:25.to an agency's books is taking a Rosie Nelson, who's 23 and a size

:52:26. > :52:29.8-10, is calling for a law to protect young models from being

:52:30. > :52:44.pressurised into becoming I went in and my hips were too big

:52:45. > :52:51.so they said I had to slim down so I lost five kilos. You were told to

:52:52. > :52:56.slim down to the bone. Yes. I looked ill at the time because I had lost

:52:57. > :53:04.so much wet afterwards. That is when they said we want you down to the

:53:05. > :53:10.bone. After helping Great Britain to a first Davis cup since 1936 the

:53:11. > :53:20.world number two has told newspaper journalist there are not enough

:53:21. > :53:23.young British players taking part in grand slams and that he does not

:53:24. > :53:26.speak to those in power because it is a waste of time as nothing ever

:53:27. > :53:30.gets done. I spoke to our tennis correspondent. This is a frustration

:53:31. > :53:34.dating back many years. He feels that it is almost pointless having

:53:35. > :53:38.conversations with those who run the sport in the UK. He feels there is a

:53:39. > :53:45.distinct lack of juniors coming through. There is very much evidence

:53:46. > :53:49.of that. Results at the junior grand slams be nonexistent. Not enough

:53:50. > :53:58.boys in particular at the draw. Pete is one exemption on the girls said.

:53:59. > :54:03.The national tennis centre was built in Roehampton in 2007 at a cost of

:54:04. > :54:08.?40 million. Andy Murray and other top players are frustrated by the

:54:09. > :54:13.fact that if they do go there to practice that are not other top

:54:14. > :54:16.quality players around to hit with because in recent years the system

:54:17. > :54:21.has been decentralised. Training camps used to take place in London

:54:22. > :54:26.and are taking place throughout the country. Do you think this criticism

:54:27. > :54:33.is fair? A lot of the points he makes are valid but it gets back a

:54:34. > :54:36.few years. The Chief Executive has been in for two gears and there is

:54:37. > :54:39.not a great deal of confidence in the performance side of the

:54:40. > :54:44.programme for the reasons I have been outlining. A fabulous college

:54:45. > :54:49.buddy tracksuit coach, never someone who was going to be able to play

:54:50. > :54:53.that performance director Roland be in charge of strategy and sit behind

:54:54. > :54:57.a desk and plan the future of British tennis. That was clearly a

:54:58. > :55:04.mistake. We will see whether Peter Keane proves to be the best

:55:05. > :55:08.long-term option from another sport. Lawn Tennis Association's mission is

:55:09. > :55:13.to increase participation. The most recent figures released by sport

:55:14. > :55:19.England survey revealed that the numbers playing tennis has risen but

:55:20. > :55:25.they have dropped over the last five or six years like many sports and it

:55:26. > :55:28.remains to be seen whether they can keep those numbers steady. You

:55:29. > :55:35.cannot have one without the other and at the moment the performance

:55:36. > :55:39.side of things... You cannot have one without the other and despite

:55:40. > :55:45.the Davis cup success that side of things is in a little bit of a mess

:55:46. > :55:49.at the moment. The nominees for the BBC sports personality of the year

:55:50. > :55:54.award have been announced and this year the short list is quite long.

:55:55. > :55:59.Which one of these will lift the trophy? It will be decided in

:56:00. > :56:13.Belfast on the 20th of December and you will be able to vote on the

:56:14. > :56:19.night by phone and online. Welcome if you have just joined us. We are

:56:20. > :56:24.here until 11am. We will bring you breaking news and developing stories

:56:25. > :56:29.plus lots of reaction to our conversation about models. Rosie

:56:30. > :56:33.Nelson who is a size 8-10 is calling for a change in the law to prevent

:56:34. > :56:40.young models being pressurised into becoming dangerously thin. Someone

:56:41. > :56:46.says there is no reason for models to look like a hat rack. Someone

:56:47. > :56:52.else says having suffered with anorexia any legislation that saves

:56:53. > :56:54.lives is worth it. Someone says fashion models are not

:56:55. > :57:01.representative of the wider population and should not be sticks

:57:02. > :57:06.onshore. Someone else seeing our designers admitting their clothes

:57:07. > :57:11.only look good on anorexic models? Someone else thanks Rosie for

:57:12. > :57:14.speaking out. Someone says there is no reason for models to look like a

:57:15. > :57:21.hat rack... I said that one already! It is always great to hear

:57:22. > :57:26.from you and we will bring you more of your comments later. You can

:57:27. > :57:33.watch the programme online wherever you are, they add the BBC News app,

:57:34. > :57:37.or on the website. You can subscribe to our features on the news app by

:57:38. > :57:41.going to our topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire. Jimmy Oliver

:57:42. > :57:45.says there ought to be Druze restrictions on energy drinks to

:57:46. > :57:50.prevent young children drinking them in schools. He is campaigning for a

:57:51. > :57:56.sugar tax and says sugar is as serious a threat to the nation's

:57:57. > :57:57.health as tobacco. He had been speaking in the House of Commons

:57:58. > :58:01.yesterday. You described this

:58:02. > :58:04.as being the biggest war right now. Yes,

:58:05. > :58:07.if you look at the deaths caused by diet-related disease in Britain

:58:08. > :58:09.today, they are astronomical. If you look at the amount of people

:58:10. > :58:12.in hospital because of diet-related We talk about obesity a lot,

:58:13. > :58:17.but diet-related disease is huge. So I think

:58:18. > :58:21.when you are drilling into things like type 2 diabetes, which is

:58:22. > :58:25.nearly 10% of the whole NHS budget, And because it is slow

:58:26. > :58:33.and it slowly takes the shine off people and their health

:58:34. > :58:35.and their productivity and their life expectancy, because

:58:36. > :58:53.it is so slow, it is not dramatic. And it doesn't command the kind

:58:54. > :58:56.of actions that are appropriate to protect our kids right now

:58:57. > :58:57.in Britain. Would you describe sugar

:58:58. > :58:59.as the new tobacco? Sugar is delicious

:59:00. > :59:03.and we are programmed to love it. But the question is,

:59:04. > :59:05.when businesses that trade it, when they become so successful

:59:06. > :59:08.at the cost of our children's health, when does it become

:59:09. > :59:11.a debate in a place like this? Can they all exponentially grow

:59:12. > :59:14.every year and get more of it Our kids,

:59:15. > :59:18.it is widely recognised that So for me, the concept of a sugary

:59:19. > :59:25.drinks tax - which is your tax, it's not for the money to go anywhere,

:59:26. > :59:28.the money is going to go to schools and to hospitals, and to do things

:59:29. > :59:31.in the community that promote good health - the concept of this is only

:59:32. > :59:35.because sugary drinks are the single largest source of sugar in

:59:36. > :59:39.our children's and teenagers' diet. But if you're effectively equating

:59:40. > :59:43.that with tobacco in public health terms, should there be age limits

:59:44. > :59:46.on the sale of fizzy drinks in the I have spent a lot of time

:59:47. > :59:52.in primary schools And when you see seven

:59:53. > :00:00.and eight-year-old kids pulling out cans of energy drinks, you know -

:00:01. > :00:03.and you know all the brands, with caffeine and all sorts of things

:00:04. > :00:06.in there - that is upsetting. And when those kids drink them,

:00:07. > :00:09.which they are not allowed to, but they get them - there is no

:00:10. > :00:12.standards for lunch boxes So absolutely, for energy drinks

:00:13. > :00:16.there should be age restrictions But as far

:00:17. > :00:20.as other regular sugary drinks, no, Good clarity goes

:00:21. > :00:28.a long way with the British public. When you give them good clear

:00:29. > :00:32.information they make good choices. But I think at the moment for me

:00:33. > :00:36.it feels like, you know, confusion You seem to be pinning it all

:00:37. > :01:03.on the industry. I think it is not just the food

:01:04. > :01:08.and drinks industry, it is not just education, it is not just

:01:09. > :01:12.the Government, of course parents But I think Britain has gone

:01:13. > :01:19.through an incredible 40 years. The food industry has developed

:01:20. > :01:21.a lot in 40 years. To be a British parent these days

:01:22. > :01:25.is, I think, very challenging, if The capacity for you to make

:01:26. > :01:29.the wrong choice is much easier Not just in availability,

:01:30. > :01:33.but you might have come from a family - and there are many -

:01:34. > :01:36.that didn't have parents that cooked at home and you didn't learn

:01:37. > :01:39.to cook at school either. So this is part

:01:40. > :01:41.of a big holistic plan. The sugary drinks tax is

:01:42. > :01:43.the hardest subject. But when people understand this

:01:44. > :01:47.money is theirs to be spent on good, to protect the most disadvantaged

:01:48. > :01:50.as well, people generally seen to And actually, bizarrely,

:01:51. > :01:53.it is polling quite well in the polls with regard to

:01:54. > :01:56.understanding it, being OK with it. And I think that is quite rare

:01:57. > :02:00.for a tax of any kind. One person who does not seem to be

:02:01. > :02:03.coming around to it is He has publicly said he

:02:04. > :02:08.doesn't see the case for it. I know you have had what you said

:02:09. > :02:11.were robust conversations with him. Look, when I have seen Mr Cameron

:02:12. > :02:16.on a couple of occasions he has taken this very seriously, and he

:02:17. > :02:19.is open-minded to all options. So does he say something

:02:20. > :02:21.different to you from what he No, flouting around the concept of a

:02:22. > :02:26.tax is not the fastest way to make But ultimately this conversation,

:02:27. > :02:33.and the reason I am committed to this for the long term, is that we

:02:34. > :02:37.can't just keep looking at child We can't just look at the cost

:02:38. > :02:42.of it. We can't let that facilitate

:02:43. > :02:45.a collapse in the NHS. But does David Cameron

:02:46. > :02:48.buy this argument? And if he buys the argument you are

:02:49. > :02:50.putting forward, I think he is open-minded

:02:51. > :02:58.to everything. I think he wants to do

:02:59. > :03:01.something that is robust. Let's see how brave

:03:02. > :03:04.and robust he is. That's why I can't wait to see what

:03:05. > :03:06.the childhood obesity strategy This kind of action here today

:03:07. > :03:11.in Parliament is about setting, I guess, the foundations for this,

:03:12. > :03:13.really. Let's debate -

:03:14. > :03:19.has business gone too far? Should they be allowed to

:03:20. > :03:22.do anything they want? Is it OK for them to always market

:03:23. > :03:26.to our kids in certain ways I think when you are looking

:03:27. > :03:31.at the cost of ill health of Britain and British kids,

:03:32. > :03:35.it doesn't take a rocket scientist You have got supermarkets having buy

:03:36. > :03:45.one get one free promotions all the time and they are weighted

:03:46. > :03:48.in favour of the sugary snacks, If you have got that still going on,

:03:49. > :03:54.this tax could be a complete waste It won't be a waste of time, because

:03:55. > :03:59.what you'll get is a raising of funds that will facilitate some

:04:00. > :04:03.incredible initiatives around Britain, in education, in

:04:04. > :04:06.schools and in the health service. The important thing is, let's not

:04:07. > :04:12.just focus on the sugary drinks tax. It needs to be 50 to 100 points

:04:13. > :04:19.of activations happening in labelling, teaspoons, facilitating

:04:20. > :04:22.and funding activities in schools, looking at advertising, marketing

:04:23. > :04:26.to our kids online, prime time. We are focusing on

:04:27. > :04:32.the sugary drinks tax because that What about getting tougher

:04:33. > :04:40.on supermarkets? I think to be a modern-day

:04:41. > :04:43.supermarket they will have to start addressing doing more with regards

:04:44. > :04:48.to inspiring their customers to shop more efficiently, more healthily,

:04:49. > :04:52.save money on the healthier options, make it easier -

:04:53. > :04:55.even if you look at waste and what is graded in and out of vegetables

:04:56. > :04:59.from British farmers, now there's And actually I am starting to see

:05:00. > :05:05.now changes of behaviour in a handful of supermarkets are doing

:05:06. > :05:09.some really interesting initiatives. So I think that is why I

:05:10. > :05:12.say now is the moment. Because to single it out on just a

:05:13. > :05:17.tax - everything has got to change. The CEOs of companies

:05:18. > :05:21.in this country need to be much more switched on for waste

:05:22. > :05:25.and environment and making it easier for British people to make better

:05:26. > :05:30.choices, for sure. Final question - what do you want

:05:31. > :05:34.the politicians to do after this? A lot of people are saying,

:05:35. > :05:41.there are a lot of people who are obese out there and they do not even

:05:42. > :05:44.drink sugary drinks. The focus on sugary,

:05:45. > :05:46.sweetened drinks is because they are the biggest single largest source

:05:47. > :05:49.of in our kids' diets. There's lots

:05:50. > :05:54.of modelling that support financial And like I said, it was symbolic of

:05:55. > :06:00.change that we tackled the hardest thing to tackle, which is actually

:06:01. > :06:03.saying, no, enough is enough, OK? Now we're going to tax this

:06:04. > :06:07.because it is a bit of a problem. I have always said to Mr Cameron,

:06:08. > :06:10.if this wasn't to work, after three to five years, remove

:06:11. > :06:13.it, put a sunset clause on it. None

:06:14. > :06:15.of the things that I have come up with in my obesity strategy, if they

:06:16. > :06:18.don't work, you would remove them. You can measure it in terms

:06:19. > :06:24.of reduction in sales... And it works in Mexico

:06:25. > :06:33.and it works in France. And you will get a drop of

:06:34. > :06:37.of consumption and you will raise funds that must be hypothecated to

:06:38. > :06:40.be spent in places of need, which This is at the front line

:06:41. > :06:44.of saving the NHS. This is at the front line

:06:45. > :06:46.of creating it. The tax is a splash, but is the

:06:47. > :06:53.ripples that are truly powerful. It is all

:06:54. > :07:06.of those other initiatives that give Loads of you getting in touch.

:07:07. > :07:11.Tarrin says, really interesting debate. Geoff says well done for

:07:12. > :07:15.raising the problem of energy drinks among young children, this is a big

:07:16. > :07:20.problem. Simon says, oh, my days, just found myself agreeing with

:07:21. > :07:24.Jamie Oliver. Andy on Facebook says there should be an age restriction

:07:25. > :07:29.on listening to Jamie Oliver and his drivel. All this week we are looking

:07:30. > :07:33.at the best ways of tackling childhood obesity, it's a problem

:07:34. > :07:37.which could soon cost us more than smoking, war, alcohol and climate

:07:38. > :07:40.change. Today, Jim Reid has been looking at whether food must have

:07:41. > :08:00.beeners can do more to strip out sugar from the food they produce.

:08:01. > :08:10.A typical loaf of bread has 40% less salt in it than it did in the '80s.

:08:11. > :08:14.It worked with salt, can we do the same thing with sugar? This is what

:08:15. > :08:14.happened behind closed doors, when the

:08:15. > :08:23.food industry gets together. A colossal trade show to sell the

:08:24. > :08:34.stuff we could be eating and drinking next year. Walking through

:08:35. > :08:44.the stands, there's hundreds of exhibitors. You notice every stand

:08:45. > :08:48.is touting health messages. One of the next changes you can expect to

:08:49. > :08:55.see is the growth of natural alternatives to sugar. This plant,

:08:56. > :09:00.Stevia, is 200 times as sweet with none of the calories. Unheard of

:09:01. > :09:04.four years ago, it's already used in dozens of big brands, often it's

:09:05. > :09:09.introduced gradually. Would the consumer know there's this in the

:09:10. > :09:14.product? How does it work? It doesn't depend on us as a supplier

:09:15. > :09:18.but every single brand or manufacturer, some will list Stevia

:09:19. > :09:21.on the front of the label, others choose not to shout about it for

:09:22. > :09:26.various reasons, it could be because it's an every day product and they

:09:27. > :09:30.don't want to confuse consumers. For big supermarkets, it's that same

:09:31. > :09:35.juggling act, they say they want to move people away from unhealthy

:09:36. > :09:39.foods but can't afford to frighten customers off. There is a huge

:09:40. > :09:43.danger. Customers know who they like and like what they know and

:09:44. > :09:47.unfortunately there is a gradual experience they need to go through

:09:48. > :09:52.to ensure they get that. We cannot just a take a population ingrained

:09:53. > :09:55.in their eating habits and ex-them to change overnight.

:09:56. > :09:59.We are in the hi-tech kitchen of what used to be the agricultural

:10:00. > :10:06.college in Nottingham, learning how to bake a cake the right way. We are

:10:07. > :10:11.going to add the sugar or sugar substitute to the margarine and

:10:12. > :10:16.cream it together. The sugar adds to the sweetness and the pleasant

:10:17. > :10:22.flavour. But also it adds texture to it. It also has a caramelising

:10:23. > :10:25.effect so it browns, so it'ses a they wantically pleasing and we eat

:10:26. > :10:31.with our eyes. If it doesn't look nice, we are not going to eat it.

:10:32. > :10:39.So it has those things. If you start to take sugar away from it, those

:10:40. > :10:43.things may well be changed. Seven different cakes all with different

:10:44. > :10:49.levels of sugar or artificial sweeteners. Some better tasting than

:10:50. > :10:52.others. But if obesity is, as the Government says; the biggest public

:10:53. > :10:56.health threat facing our children, we might have to accept our food

:10:57. > :10:59.will have to change and the companies selling us that stuff will

:11:00. > :11:02.have to work harder to come up with recipes that are not just good for

:11:03. > :11:08.our palate, but good for our waistlines as well.

:11:09. > :11:13.Let's bring you some breaking news we are getting about the number of

:11:14. > :11:17.refugees and migrants reaching Europe via the Mediterranean. The

:11:18. > :11:24.numbers through for November. Interestingly, they show a very big

:11:25. > :11:27.drop from October. The figures for November, 140,000, compared with

:11:28. > :11:33.220,000 in October. So, that is obviously a very big

:11:34. > :11:41.drop, but UNHCR is saying the numbers are still high. UNHCR has

:11:42. > :11:43.put out these figures. Still to come before 11; a group

:11:44. > :11:47.that claims to hate and resent Still to come before 11; a group

:11:48. > :11:52.people has been handing out cards to women on the tube telling them they

:11:53. > :11:56.are a fat, ugly human. We'll bring you the details. First, there'll be

:11:57. > :11:59.a full day of debate in the House of Commons tomorrow on allowing British

:12:00. > :12:02.air strikes in Syria. The Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn, who had called

:12:03. > :12:06.for a two-day debate, is accusing the Prime Minister of a rush to war.

:12:07. > :12:10.But David Cameron says military action in Syria has growing support

:12:11. > :12:15.and is the right thing to do. Enit comes to a vote, will enough

:12:16. > :12:19.MPs back him? Norman Smith has been crunching the numbers. He did say he

:12:20. > :12:23.wouldn't go to a vote if he wasn't sure he'd win it, so tell us how the

:12:24. > :12:26.numbers look like they are going to break down? You are right, Number

:12:27. > :12:31.Ten is very confident they can win it. That is why they are moving

:12:32. > :12:35.quickly. We'll get the motion which will be debated in the next hour or

:12:36. > :12:39.so and I'm told that will be an inclusive motion, so it won't just

:12:40. > :12:42.talk about bombing IS and Sir yarks there'll be a lot about the

:12:43. > :12:47.humanitarian and diplomatic plan, strong references to the fact there

:12:48. > :12:50.is now a UN Resolution and then Number Ten

:12:51. > :12:52.is now a UN Resolution and then going to do away with Prime

:12:53. > :12:58.Minister's Questions tomorrow -- Syria. So the whole day from 11.

:12:59. > :13:02.302010 o'clock at night can be devoted exclusively to the debate on

:13:03. > :13:11.Syria. But the expectation is Mr Cameron will get a comfortable

:13:12. > :13:16.majority -. Mr Cameron's got to be looking at getting around 325 on

:13:17. > :13:21.board. He's got 330 MPs, but the expectation is only around 320

:13:22. > :13:29.roughly supporting him tomorrow. There's about ten or so who're

:13:30. > :13:34.likely to oppose military action. However, Mr Cameron will be butt

:13:35. > :13:39.rested by about 50 or more Labour MPs because it's thought at least

:13:40. > :13:44.50, and it could rise beyond that of Labour MPs, will support him. That's

:13:45. > :13:49.his safety net which kind of guarantees him victory. On top of

:13:50. > :13:54.that, there's probably about another ten or so who're either members of

:13:55. > :13:59.the Democratic Unionist party. There might be the odd Lib Dem straggler,

:14:00. > :14:04.so you get around another ten who'll also back Mr Cameron. So when you

:14:05. > :14:11.stack all that up together, you've got 320 Tories, 50 or so Labour,

:14:12. > :14:16.you've got around ten others, as it were, putting you at around 380,

:14:17. > :14:20.well above the 325 you need and it may go higher than that. David

:14:21. > :14:24.Cameron may do better. The truth is, by 10 o'clock

:14:25. > :14:28.tomorrow, the House of Commons will almost certainly have voted for

:14:29. > :14:34.military action and the working assumption is that military ache

:14:35. > :14:37.strikes will start soon afterwards. A public debate about whether

:14:38. > :14:39.there'll be a free vote. The position is now clear, but where

:14:40. > :14:45.does this all heave Labour right now? I think calling it a public

:14:46. > :14:52.debate is a very charitable description Joanna, it's been more

:14:53. > :14:56.like a fist fight. Jeremy Corbyn faced a mutiny in Cabinet yesterday

:14:57. > :15:01.and was forced to concede that there can be a free vote, they can speak

:15:02. > :15:08.against bombing and can interpret party policy pretty much as they

:15:09. > :15:11.want, albeit Hilary Benn, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, I mean we do have

:15:12. > :15:16.the rather odd situation let's be honest that Jeremy Corbyn will start

:15:17. > :15:20.the debate for Labour and speak against bombing, Hilary Benn who'll

:15:21. > :15:25.conclude it will speak for bombing. That said, Mr Benn this morning was

:15:26. > :15:28.charitable to Mr Core bun saying this is new politics, we are doing

:15:29. > :15:33.things differently. Listen to what he said -- Mr Corbyn. People have

:15:34. > :15:35.strongly held views on this and it's perfectly possible for people to

:15:36. > :15:40.reach different conclusions because the views are sincerely held. That's

:15:41. > :15:44.the strength of our politics, isn't that what people want

:15:45. > :15:45.Parliamentarians to do, weigh up the voices, what they themselves think

:15:46. > :16:02.and reach a conclusion? We will set out what we think. That

:16:03. > :16:07.is a different kind of politics to the one maybe you are used about the

:16:08. > :16:11.right thing to do in those circumstances. Jeremy Corbyn's

:16:12. > :16:15.difficult they did not end there. It carried on at the meeting of the

:16:16. > :16:21.Parliamentary Labour Party yesterday evening where there was a great

:16:22. > :16:25.delight at Jeremy Corbyn not for his stance on air strikes, the

:16:26. > :16:35.overwhelming majority seem to back him on air strikes, what they are

:16:36. > :16:39.unhappy about is the way he has handled this saga, that he tried to

:16:40. > :16:43.go, that is the view, to put the squeeze on their MPs to back him.

:16:44. > :16:48.But was a lot of anger about that. One senior Labour MP emerged from

:16:49. > :16:51.the meeting and said gleefully it had been the most uplifting meeting

:16:52. > :16:57.he had been too because Jeremy Corbyn had had such a going over.

:16:58. > :17:03.People criticising him were not just the usual suspects, Margaret Beckett

:17:04. > :17:08.warning about how he was dividing the party. A lot of criticism of his

:17:09. > :17:12.supporters in particular Ken Livingstone. In part because he

:17:13. > :17:18.suggested the other day that the 7/7 bombers had laid down their lives

:17:19. > :17:23.because of their views on Iraq and he was directly attacked and

:17:24. > :17:30.criticised very strongly for that I a Labour MP. A very bruising meeting

:17:31. > :17:34.for Jeremy Corbyn supporters. Stay with us because listening to that is

:17:35. > :17:42.Ken Livingstone, the former mayor of London. Angela Smith was at the

:17:43. > :17:52.meeting last night. She backs air strikes in Syria. She is with us in

:17:53. > :17:56.the studio. As is the Labour MP for Edinburgh South Ian Murray who is

:17:57. > :18:01.Labour's shadow Scottish secretary and plans to vote against air

:18:02. > :18:06.strikes in Syria. What did you see in the meeting last night? I made it

:18:07. > :18:11.clear that Ken Livingstone's remarks about the 7/7 bombings weren't

:18:12. > :18:16.tiredly unacceptable. The vast majority of the British public will

:18:17. > :18:19.be appalled with what he said to effectively blamed Tony Blair and

:18:20. > :18:27.Western values for the attacks on London on that day. It was totally

:18:28. > :18:32.unacceptable and he has made himself unfit to chair the review and I

:18:33. > :18:39.think he should resign. He is joining us. Maybe put that to him.

:18:40. > :18:44.Are you going to resign? Do you accept you have alienating the vast

:18:45. > :18:49.majority of the British public? Not at all. Then the two days following

:18:50. > :18:53.what I said something like 40 or 50 be both stopped me on the street to

:18:54. > :18:59.say I agree with everything you said and nobody has criticised me apart

:19:00. > :19:04.from MPs and the media. I have never told a lie in public life. We know

:19:05. > :19:10.those four suicide bombers who were born and brought up in Britain, part

:19:11. > :19:14.of our life and culture, were turned against and prepared to blow

:19:15. > :19:19.themselves up in order to kill 52 Londoners on the streets and if you

:19:20. > :19:22.go on the messages they left as they recorded by they were doing this

:19:23. > :19:27.they said was because of our invasion of Iraq and Tony Blair was

:19:28. > :19:31.told by security services if you invade Iraq it increases the risk of

:19:32. > :19:38.a terrorist attack which is why I am really worried about more bombing

:19:39. > :19:43.over Syria because troops on the ground, unless you put them, they

:19:44. > :19:50.will be prepared to kill more British people. Is he right? No.

:19:51. > :19:53.This is tantamount to blaming our society for what is happening in the

:19:54. > :20:00.Middle East and the streets of Western capitals across the world.

:20:01. > :20:03.That is entirely unacceptable. The fanaticism that characterises

:20:04. > :20:08.Al-Qaeda and I so cannot be laid at the door of Western values that

:20:09. > :20:12.stand for freedom, liberty and the rates of the individual to live life

:20:13. > :20:18.with in the role of the law as he or she once. -- rights, the rights of

:20:19. > :20:26.women, are so important to our society. Ken just keeps making the

:20:27. > :20:30.same mistake over and over again. 40 or 50 people may have had something

:20:31. > :20:49.to say but there are millions more across the country who will be

:20:50. > :20:52.appalled that his attitude. I agree that our values are something we

:20:53. > :20:54.should defend. You are not in your head. I think terrorists are

:20:55. > :20:57.terrorists wherever they are in the world. I was appalled by what I

:20:58. > :21:01.heard from Ken Livingstone on Thursday the majority of people will

:21:02. > :21:06.be appalled. He has the opportunity to apologise for that. It is deeply

:21:07. > :21:09.regretful that we are going through a huge sensible and adult debate

:21:10. > :21:15.that the moment about the Middle East, Syria, Iraq, terrorism. There

:21:16. > :21:18.are people on the streets of Britain fearful about what may happen in

:21:19. > :21:24.terms of what happened in Paris and capital cities around the world and

:21:25. > :21:27.for a senior respected politician to go on to Question Time and see such

:21:28. > :21:33.dreadful shameful things is unacceptable. I think he should not

:21:34. > :21:40.only apologise but he should remove himself from that defence review.

:21:41. > :21:45.Will you apologise? I told the truth. I am not going to apologise

:21:46. > :21:50.for telling the truth. Those four suicide bombers, the message they

:21:51. > :21:56.left was that they were doing this because of our involvement in Iraq.

:21:57. > :22:01.This is not a one-off. All our life we have been involving ourselves,

:22:02. > :22:05.invading Egypt, offering humiliating defeat, we should stay out of the

:22:06. > :22:10.Middle East unless we have a strategy and it is not a strategy

:22:11. > :22:15.just a bomb. You have to defeat Isil on the ground as we did with Nazi

:22:16. > :22:21.Germany and create democracy afterwards. Just bombing at is not

:22:22. > :22:25.going to do that. You cannot win a war by just bombing. Your choice of

:22:26. > :22:29.words is interesting because you described the suicide bombers as

:22:30. > :22:38.having given the lives, making a sacrifice. Is that the right sort of

:22:39. > :22:42.language? I did not say sacrifice. These were four boys born and

:22:43. > :22:47.brought up in this country who had watched television and been part of

:22:48. > :22:50.our culture and sat in a room and decided to blow themselves apart in

:22:51. > :22:56.order to kill lots of innocent Londoners. We cannot deny that. That

:22:57. > :23:02.is what they said. That seems like an apologist for terrorism. They sat

:23:03. > :23:06.in a room and consciously decided to kill innocent people. That is

:23:07. > :23:10.unacceptable and to apologise for that is also unacceptable and he

:23:11. > :23:13.should do the right thing and remove himself from front-line Labour Party

:23:14. > :23:19.politics and apologise to the British people for what is a

:23:20. > :23:25.deplorable way to conduct himself. The deputy general secretary of the

:23:26. > :23:28.union and the bus driver of the bus that was blown up in Tavistock

:23:29. > :23:33.Square was a member of the union and that is one of the reasons he was so

:23:34. > :23:37.angry last night, that one of his members was involved in that attack,

:23:38. > :23:42.and to have Ken defending those who committed that atrocity is exactly

:23:43. > :23:48.why he should apologise and resign from the review. That is a lie. I am

:23:49. > :23:53.not defending them. I am not apologising for them. I recruited

:23:54. > :23:58.the thousands of extra police are we could defeat terrorism in London. I

:23:59. > :24:02.went and met the victims and families afterwards and shared their

:24:03. > :24:07.grief. One of my staff had their legs blown off in that. I am not

:24:08. > :24:11.apologising for this. I put in place the mechanisms that allowed us to

:24:12. > :24:16.stop almost all the terrorist attacks. What they did is

:24:17. > :24:20.outrageous. I did not apologise for them or justify what they are

:24:21. > :24:25.doing. I told the truth that Tony Blair was warned if you go into Iraq

:24:26. > :24:29.you increase the risk of a terrorist attack in this country and I am sure

:24:30. > :24:36.that is exactly what David Cameron is doing now. In terms of further

:24:37. > :24:43.action,... I want to bring you before we move on to what happens

:24:44. > :24:50.next an email from someone whose sister was killed in Russell Square

:24:51. > :24:56.. She says we love again with our grief when we hear comments like

:24:57. > :25:02.that. It is not intelligent, it is the comment of a stupid man who

:25:03. > :25:08.wants to upset people. Someone whose son David died at Edgeware Road says

:25:09. > :25:13.not only is he accepting their excuses by saying they have a cause,

:25:14. > :25:19.he is legitimising terrorism and giving them an identity they do not

:25:20. > :25:25.deserve. As a senior politician I struggle to see how he can do that.

:25:26. > :25:29.He has no sympathy for the victims' families. What do you say to those

:25:30. > :25:35.relatives? Do not believe the interpretation of this. They are

:25:36. > :25:43.listening to your words. They are listening to you now and that is

:25:44. > :25:47.what they say. I'd put in place thousands of extra police to make it

:25:48. > :25:54.more difficult for them to do that. We did a lot to work with the

:25:55. > :25:59.victims and their families of those who died and the survivors. I

:26:00. > :26:03.denounced what they dead and I denounce it today but we have to

:26:04. > :26:06.recognise they did not do it without a political reason and Tony Blair

:26:07. > :26:11.increased risk of that terrorist attack when he took the decision to

:26:12. > :26:17.invade Iraq based on Eli. There was no threat to us from weapons of mass

:26:18. > :26:21.destruction. It cost not just the lives of 52 Londoners but hundreds

:26:22. > :26:28.of our troops who were sent into a war a falsehood. Norman wants to

:26:29. > :26:37.come in. After last night's meeting of the Parliamentary Labour party,

:26:38. > :26:41.Jeremy Corbyn was asked directly and he absolutely did not give his

:26:42. > :26:45.support again get Livingstone's remarks. It seems Ken Livingstone is

:26:46. > :26:51.on his own because Jeremy Corbyn is not backing him on this. It would

:26:52. > :26:59.seem to me that Ken Livingstone is pretty much on his own. Is it time

:27:00. > :27:04.for you to back down? You heard what Norman was saying about Jeremy

:27:05. > :27:09.Corbyn's spokesperson. All my life and politics people have said to me

:27:10. > :27:15.why did you say that? My response has been, because it is true. Go on

:27:16. > :27:20.data from then. You will have it on record. There are the terrorists

:27:21. > :27:26.saying we did this because of Iraq. I do not think they were lying. That

:27:27. > :27:31.is exactly why they did it. There will be people in Syria in Isil

:27:32. > :27:36.thinking if they start bombing they will make more of an attempt to come

:27:37. > :27:41.over here and kill more Brits. You were widely praised at the time of

:27:42. > :27:47.the events in London in 2005. Why do you seem determined... It is very

:27:48. > :27:53.hard for Labour Party members to understand why you seem determined

:27:54. > :27:57.to destroy that record. I am not destroying the record, I am telling

:27:58. > :28:01.the truth. Are you telling me those bombers did not do this because of

:28:02. > :28:06.our invasion of Iraq? Are you telling me Tony Blair was not warned

:28:07. > :28:10.this would make us a target? Most of us find it really hard and

:28:11. > :28:16.impossible to understand what motivates suicide bombers. How can

:28:17. > :28:20.you possibly assume you understand? 9/11 was before Iraq and there were

:28:21. > :28:27.terrorists blowing up planes and telling innocent people. People all

:28:28. > :28:31.over the world are uneasy about what is happening in the Middle East.

:28:32. > :28:35.Angela and I disagree on the solution but we absolutely agree

:28:36. > :28:39.that Ken Livingstone's comments were unacceptable and given the two

:28:40. > :28:43.emails you have had from relatives of people who were killed, that sums

:28:44. > :28:51.up the mood of the country and Ken Livingstone would do himself good if

:28:52. > :28:54.he apologised. Will you apologise? I am not going to apologise for a lie

:28:55. > :28:59.that is being perpetrated in the media. I did not support the

:29:00. > :29:04.terrorists. We put in place the measures to defeat them. I did not

:29:05. > :29:09.justify what they do but we have to understand why they do it. The

:29:10. > :29:12.information I have from this comes from the Counter Terrorism Unit

:29:13. > :29:18.which was trying to find out reasons and motivation. You're not going to

:29:19. > :29:22.defeat this terrorism if you do not understand the causes of it. We have

:29:23. > :29:29.been intervening in the Arab world Rover 100 years always with

:29:30. > :29:36.disastrous consequences and unless we can build a genuine United

:29:37. > :29:39.Nations force to go and defeat Isis we will be standing here in a few

:29:40. > :29:45.weeks or months discussing the loss of life due to another terrorist

:29:46. > :29:49.attack in Britain. We should not be supporting air strikes in Iraq on

:29:50. > :29:54.that basis. I do not understand why so many people opposed to air

:29:55. > :30:00.strikes in Syria have nothing to say about the fact we are engaged in

:30:01. > :30:07.Iraq on air strikes. We are stuck in Iraq because of that legacy. Isil

:30:08. > :30:12.does not recognise borders. They ignore that and move backwards and

:30:13. > :30:15.forwards. The only way you are going to defeat them is with troops on the

:30:16. > :30:19.ground. The Nazis were bombing London night after night in the

:30:20. > :30:26.Blitz and it did not break our will. My mum got up every morning

:30:27. > :30:29.and went off to work in a passion. Sometimes 500 Londoners were killed

:30:30. > :30:34.in a night and it did not break our will. There has to be troops on the

:30:35. > :30:37.ground and a broad coalition. It cannot be seen as another American

:30:38. > :30:44.intervention looking after oil interests. I disagree with Angela

:30:45. > :30:48.that we should not be extending air strikes into Syria because there is

:30:49. > :30:54.no ground troop back-up to hold the ground that is gained. In Iraq there

:30:55. > :30:58.is limited air strikes but there is Kurdish and Iraqi forces on the

:30:59. > :31:03.ground able to advance into that ground and whole background. What

:31:04. > :31:07.Ken Livingstone is saying is that is acceptable but it is not acceptable

:31:08. > :31:13.in Syria and I agree but you cannot see it is OK to do it any Iraq now

:31:14. > :31:15.but not in 2003 and blame that on the terrorist attack in London. It

:31:16. > :31:25.is intellectually incoherent. It just happens to be what those

:31:26. > :31:33.terrorists who took 52 Londoners' lives gave as their motive. Doesn't

:31:34. > :31:36.the fact that the border between Iraq and Syria has effectively

:31:37. > :31:40.disappeared somewhat change the picture and, is it not the case as

:31:41. > :31:44.well, that this isn't just about military ache strikes, it's also

:31:45. > :31:49.about supporting the free Syrians on the ground and ensuring that we have

:31:50. > :31:54.the diplomatic initiatives in place to support? We need to create the

:31:55. > :31:58.space by putting Isil on the defensive, by degrading Isil, before

:31:59. > :32:05.we even think about seriously taking forward the diplomatic and political

:32:06. > :32:11.initiatives. Is that not the case? Well, the simple fact is that the

:32:12. > :32:15.vast bulk of what's called the Free Syrian Army are not much different

:32:16. > :32:19.from Isil and we haven't heard Cameron saying there's 70,000 troops

:32:20. > :32:24.on ground, the Americans think it's about 35,000, but many of those are

:32:25. > :32:29.extremist fanatics as well. You are not going to be able to assemble a

:32:30. > :32:32.Kurdish inside Syria because of the state of it. We have to have

:32:33. > :32:37.intervention from troops abroad if we are to defeat Isis. Have you read

:32:38. > :32:42.the response to the committee report? Have you actually read it?

:32:43. > :32:49.Yes. So you'll have seen... I've seen... It's work going on, not just

:32:50. > :32:55.to support the Syrians who've taken Isil territory and who've taken

:32:56. > :32:58.territory in Syria, there's a lot of support going in there to establish

:32:59. > :33:03.civic and political structures to stabilise those parts of Syria that

:33:04. > :33:07.are in the hands of the free Syrians and surely therefore it's ridiculous

:33:08. > :33:13.to argue that all the Free Syrian Armies are made up of Isil

:33:14. > :33:19.sympathisers, surely? I'm not arguing that, I'm saying some are

:33:20. > :33:22.from different ethnic backgrounds, it's an horrendous Civil War going

:33:23. > :33:26.on there, you are not about to see a nice group of liberal minded

:33:27. > :33:30.democrats coming together to defeat Assad and Isis, if you are going to

:33:31. > :33:34.do something, it has to be ground troops from outside coming in and

:33:35. > :33:40.establishing a fair and democratic system for the future. I want to

:33:41. > :33:44.bring in some comments before we wrap up what obviously has been a

:33:45. > :33:46.lively conversation. Craig saying, I'm not a great fan of Ken

:33:47. > :33:50.Livingstone but he's absolutely correct, why don't the BBC report

:33:51. > :33:53.the facts rather than bowing to the current political agenda, it's

:33:54. > :33:57.disgusting. Nicola says, he's telling the truth and in no way

:33:58. > :34:01.defending terrorists. Miles says it's an appalling attitude of Ken

:34:02. > :34:06.Livingstone, I feel sick, he has no place on British politics. I'm

:34:07. > :34:10.furious, says another viewer, I think he should resign over his

:34:11. > :34:13.appalling comments on this and mental health which has alienated

:34:14. > :34:17.people suffering from mental health issues. A final thought from each of

:34:18. > :34:20.you, because this bombing looks almost certain is going to go ahead.

:34:21. > :34:26.Ken Livingstone, and I want you all to say your thoughts on this, does

:34:27. > :34:31.it make us safer or not? It won't make us safer in the short-term and

:34:32. > :34:34.therefore what we need to see is a real increase in domestic security

:34:35. > :34:39.and restoration of the cuts we have seen in policing here in London. We

:34:40. > :34:43.need police on the ground, they are very good at collecting information

:34:44. > :34:44.and passing on and helping to identify potential terrorists

:34:45. > :34:48.suspects. Ian? I don't think anyone can really

:34:49. > :34:52.answer that question with any certainty. I think the only thing

:34:53. > :34:56.you can do is get the Syrian state back to a democratic state where

:34:57. > :35:00.people and Syrians can go and return home and help the fight against Isil

:35:01. > :35:03.and Isis from that base. That's really the only thing that we can

:35:04. > :35:05.achieve at the moment, so I'm not sure anyone can answer

:35:06. > :35:10.achieve at the moment, so I'm not great certainty. Angela? I think

:35:11. > :35:12.that actually we are seriously at risk in any case

:35:13. > :35:19.that actually we are seriously at that engagement in the work of the

:35:20. > :35:22.coalition in Syria will make us, well, will increase the

:35:23. > :35:27.we are already involved in Iraq and the work of the coalition.

:35:28. > :35:29.we are already involved in Iraq and think actually we have very little

:35:30. > :35:35.choice other than to join our coalition allies. So let's remember,

:35:36. > :35:39.who's asked us to join this fight in Syria, so I really don't think we

:35:40. > :35:44.have any option. It's with no great sense of - I think the majority of

:35:45. > :35:51.people I've spoken to are in no way enthusiastic about this. There's no

:35:52. > :35:53.jingoism around any of this, no gung-ho attitudes, everyone's heavy

:35:54. > :35:58.hearted about this, but they don't see any choice.

:35:59. > :36:02.Thank you all very much. Angela Smith, Ian Murray, Ken Livingstone

:36:03. > :36:06.and Norman as well. A fault question component was a

:36:07. > :36:06.and Norman as well. major factor when a plane crashed

:36:07. > :36:12.into the Java Sea killing 162 people. The report into

:36:13. > :36:18.the crash found actions killing 162 people. The report into

:36:19. > :36:22.contributed to the disaster. Our correspondent is in Singapore. Tell

:36:23. > :36:26.us more? Well, the details of the report have

:36:27. > :36:27.us more? finally been released almost a year

:36:28. > :36:30.after that crash took finally been released almost a year

:36:31. > :36:33.all 162 people on board. finally been released almost a year

:36:34. > :36:41.remind the audience what happened. The plane was on its way to

:36:42. > :36:45.Singapore when it lost contact with air traffic control in Singapore and

:36:46. > :36:49.then disappeared off the radar screens. What investigators have

:36:50. > :36:53.been able to tell us today is that it appears there have a crack in one

:36:54. > :36:56.of the components on board if aircraft, setting off four warning

:36:57. > :37:02.signals for the pilots. As they tried to fix the problem, they lost

:37:03. > :37:05.control of the plane, basically resetting the plane and turning off

:37:06. > :37:09.the autopilot. Investigators said as a result of this accident on board,

:37:10. > :37:12.there was no way for the pilots to recover from the situation and that

:37:13. > :37:18.caused the plane to crash. Now, the boss of the airline, Tony

:37:19. > :37:22.Fernandez, has already been commenting on Twitter saying it's a

:37:23. > :37:26.massive tragedy not just for the people on board but for the families

:37:27. > :37:29.of those left behind and he said there were lots of lessons to be

:37:30. > :37:35.learnt for the industry and the airline itself.

:37:36. > :37:39.Thank you very much. Commuters on the London Underground

:37:40. > :37:43.are being handed cards telling them they are a fat, ugly human by a

:37:44. > :37:47.group claiming to hate and resent fat people.

:37:48. > :37:53.British Transport Police have asked anyone targeted to contact them. Our

:37:54. > :38:00.correspondent Helen Fawkes is here. What is going on? This all started

:38:01. > :38:07.after A person went on social media to share a card she was handed. It

:38:08. > :38:11.was reportedly done by an organisation calling itself

:38:12. > :38:36.Overweight Haters Ltd and a card which had the tagline:

:38:37. > :38:41.British Transport Police are watching what's happening. What do

:38:42. > :38:45.they say? Transport for London have said that all customers have the

:38:46. > :38:49.right to travel with confidence and they've called this a sad,

:38:50. > :38:54.unpleasant form of antisocial behaviour. They say it will not be

:38:55. > :38:57.tolerated and they are urging anyone who has something similar happening

:38:58. > :39:00.to them to come forward to police or station staff. Thank you.

:39:01. > :39:03.Psychiatrists have concluded that the Yorkshire Ripper,

:39:04. > :39:05.Peter Sutcliffe, is no longer mentally ill.

:39:06. > :39:07.They are recommending he's transferred to

:39:08. > :39:09.a specialist prison from Broadmoor high security hospital, where he's

:39:10. > :40:09.I'm Jack. I see you are still having no luck catching me. I have the

:40:10. > :40:14.greatest respect for you, George, but Lord, you are no nearer catching

:40:15. > :41:08.me now than four years ago when I started.

:41:09. > :41:11.The final decision on moving him will be made by the

:41:12. > :41:28.Now a model who was told to slim down before she got on the modelling

:41:29. > :41:32.books has told us why she's taking a petition to Downing Street. She's

:41:33. > :41:36.calling for a law to protect young models from becoming pressurised

:41:37. > :41:43.into becoming dangerously thin. She's a size 8-10 and is 23. When I

:41:44. > :41:48.went to an agency, I was like I was now, I was a size 8. They said they

:41:49. > :41:53.wanted me to slim down. How do they evaluate you? They measure you. Like

:41:54. > :41:56.a meat market? Every time you go into an agency, they'll measure you

:41:57. > :42:01.and say, you need to fix this and that. I went in and my hips were too

:42:02. > :42:05.big, they said I needed to slim down. I went away lost about ten

:42:06. > :42:11.pounds. You were told to slim down to the bone, that is the way they

:42:12. > :42:14.described it? Yes, I looked ill when I went back, I'd lost that much

:42:15. > :42:22.weight. They said we want you down to the bone. Tell us what you want?

:42:23. > :42:27.I mentioned the BMI rule in Paris? I want models to be healthier. How do

:42:28. > :42:31.you define that? Not pushing themselves in drastic ways to lose

:42:32. > :42:35.weight, so not just eating certain things like girls are eating cotton

:42:36. > :42:42.wool and popcorn to stay thin. Cotton wool? To fill up their

:42:43. > :42:46.stomachs, yes. I've had a friend say that's what happened at a show.

:42:47. > :42:49.Girls do such drastic things. They think modelling is going to be

:42:50. > :42:54.really promising, they want to be on the catwalk and do well and the

:42:55. > :42:59.agency want them to lose weight and you get praise if you are thin. So

:43:00. > :43:04.do the agencies need to be told, do not praise for thin? Yes, there

:43:05. > :43:08.needs to be a shift where agencies are more aware that healthiness is

:43:09. > :43:15.what matters and it should be the goal for the models. They shouldn't

:43:16. > :43:18.be pressuring us to lose weight. You can watch the full interview on our

:43:19. > :43:22.programme page which will be there shortly. If you missed Ken

:43:23. > :43:26.Livingstone in conversation with Angela Smith and Ian Murray for

:43:27. > :43:31.Labour a few moments ago, that'll be on the programme. Loads getting in

:43:32. > :43:37.touch on that one. Pete on twelfther says Ken is right. Phil says he is

:43:38. > :43:41.right, what is wrong with your other panelists, they are crazy. Claire

:43:42. > :43:46.says don't apologise for telling the truth, I agree. Another viewer says

:43:47. > :43:50.the bombers laid down their lives but the lives of 55 innocent

:43:51. > :43:54.Londoners, disgraceful. Thank you so much for your company and ail your

:43:55. > :44:02.comments today. I'm back tomorrow, have a lovely afternoon. Bye.

:44:03. > :44:05.Who is this dangerous renegade, this maverick,