02/12/2015

:00:08. > :00:09.Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:10. > :00:14.MPs will vote today MPs will vote today on whether Britain should

:00:15. > :00:16.join air strikes against so-called Islamic State fighters in Syria.

:00:17. > :00:26.We talk to two mothers who have both lost their sons fighting in Syria.

:00:27. > :00:33.My son Kosta died in Syria helping the Kurdish people in their defence

:00:34. > :00:38.against Isis. I believe close air support can be very helpful and I

:00:39. > :00:44.think Britain should extend their air support into Syria. I lost my

:00:45. > :00:49.son last September in Syria, when the Americans went there and bombed.

:00:50. > :00:53.I don't believe in the Government going to Syria to bomb. I believe it

:00:54. > :01:00.will be the innocent that will be the victims. We will hear both

:01:01. > :01:03.mothers soon. Some MPs are still undecided

:01:04. > :01:07.on how to vote and one key issue is whether air strikes will inevitably

:01:08. > :01:09.lead to Briish troops being sent Now we are absolutely clear that

:01:10. > :01:14.British forces will not be committed That would be unhelpful

:01:15. > :01:18.and inappropriate. Throughout the programme we want to

:01:19. > :01:22.hear from you - how do you want Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg

:01:23. > :01:30.announces he'll give most of his multi-billion dollar fortune

:01:31. > :01:32.to charity - inspired Hello, welcome to the programme,

:01:33. > :01:52.we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Today do let us know how you want

:01:53. > :01:58.your MP to vote in today's crucial vote on extending

:01:59. > :02:01.air strikes in Syria, and why you Texts are charged

:02:02. > :02:11.at the standard network rate. If you're happy to be called

:02:12. > :02:14.on facetime or via webcam to mark your text or e-mail "call me"

:02:15. > :02:18.and we'll try and get you on air Voting on

:02:19. > :02:21.whether your country should bomb targets in another is just about one

:02:22. > :02:24.of the most significant decisions Today British MPs will do just that,

:02:25. > :02:30.and by the weekend RAF jets could be firing

:02:31. > :02:33.precision missiles on IS targets not The debate in the Commons begins

:02:34. > :02:41.at 11.30 this morning, it will last for around 10 hours and inevitably

:02:42. > :02:44.much of our programme this morning We thought we'd begin

:02:45. > :02:48.though away from the politics - if that's possible -

:02:49. > :02:51.with two mothers who have both lost Vasiliki Scurfield's son Kosta died

:02:52. > :03:00.after three months on the front line fighting against Isis, because he

:03:01. > :03:04.thought the UK should do more. Khadijah Kamara's 19-year-old son

:03:05. > :03:09.Ibrahim went to Syria to fight for IS and was killed it's thought

:03:10. > :03:26.by a US drone in Aleppo. Vasiliki, why did your son want to

:03:27. > :03:31.go and fight in Syria? My son wasn't interested in civil war in Syria, he

:03:32. > :03:35.was particularly concerned about the role of Isis in the oppression and

:03:36. > :03:40.murder and enslavement of vast amounts of people. He was very

:03:41. > :03:45.frustrated when he found out that the British Government was not going

:03:46. > :03:51.to help and he was a critical thinker and a doer and he was a good

:03:52. > :03:57.soldier, he EXELed at what he -- excelled at what he did. He went out

:03:58. > :04:01.there to do really what he thought was right and support the Kurdish

:04:02. > :04:08.people in their defence of their own territory. What was your reaction to

:04:09. > :04:12.that? Fear, terror, horror, all the things any mother would feel. You

:04:13. > :04:17.don't want your son to be at risk. You don't want any of your children

:04:18. > :04:25.to be at risk and there are other ways of helping. I wished he would

:04:26. > :04:30.have done some of those. Khadijah, why did your son want to fight in

:04:31. > :04:36.Syria for a Jihadist group, it is said. I can only explain what he

:04:37. > :04:40.told me, that he wanted to go and help as children and women and the

:04:41. > :04:48.vulnerable people are suffering. But like I told him, I said, look, you

:04:49. > :04:53.don't even know which kind of war is going on and you're still doing your

:04:54. > :04:57.education. You don't have any money. I said how are you going to help. I

:04:58. > :05:02.said there are a lot of different ways to help. You can make donations

:05:03. > :05:07.and they're training aid workers to bring donations to people. You going

:05:08. > :05:12.there, I don't think that is a good idea. We talked about that. I

:05:13. > :05:16.remember the first time I was in the car, I was driving, but it wasn't

:05:17. > :05:25.obvious that he will really make a move and go. You didn't really think

:05:26. > :05:31.he would do it. And more over, his passport was expired, so I didn't

:05:32. > :05:35.renew it, so just to make sure he will not go, because... I never know

:05:36. > :05:41.where things might lead to. But then... You thought that would be

:05:42. > :05:45.enough Yes, because it wasn't obvious when he said he wanted to

:05:46. > :05:49.go. It wasn't obvious. But he started changing. He started going

:05:50. > :05:55.out more. Coming late and things like that. For you, there was no

:05:56. > :06:02.clear indication that he was becoming radicalised. No, yes. Could

:06:03. > :06:11.you have stopped Kosta from going there? No, I couldn't. I believe his

:06:12. > :06:15.friends in the military and people like that tried to stop him. But if

:06:16. > :06:21.someone's determined to go, they will go. At the end of the day we

:06:22. > :06:27.bring our children up really to hopefully be people who will stand

:06:28. > :06:34.by their principles and people of integrity and if that is what my son

:06:35. > :06:43.did in the end. Khadijah, your son rang you when he got to Syria. Yes

:06:44. > :06:50.he rang me on 2nd January, February sorry. He said mom, around 11.45 and

:06:51. > :06:55.said to me mum, I'm in Syria and then I hang up. He called again, mum

:06:56. > :07:00.did you hang up on me. I said yes, don't ever call me again. Because

:07:01. > :07:06.you were so angry. I was... I don't know, it was a mixed up feeling.

:07:07. > :07:11.Anger. I felt let down. Disappointment. And everything and

:07:12. > :07:16.all the stigma that goes with that that your son has gone to Syria and

:07:17. > :07:22.all that. So I was angry. All the time that he was there I was angry.

:07:23. > :07:27.Until around May. I befriended him again on Facebook. I didn't want to

:07:28. > :07:30.hear Syria. I didn't want anything that would remind me of that. That

:07:31. > :07:37.is the emotional part of it. I didn't want to hear it. I didn't

:07:38. > :07:44.want to hear it at all. Because I cannot figure it out. And I was not

:07:45. > :07:50.just angry with my son living - eleaving, I was angry at the fact

:07:51. > :07:53.that he was able to take a 15 years old passport that wasn't his and

:07:54. > :07:58.travel with it and they let him go like that. I was angry for

:07:59. > :08:03.everything. And up to this day, I haven't got any answer and nobody

:08:04. > :08:07.has had the guts to take responsibility, that yes, this

:08:08. > :08:13.happened was not supposed to happen. It was wrong. That anger is in me up

:08:14. > :08:19.to now. But the anger of my son went since the day I heard about his

:08:20. > :08:26.death. Each day I pray for him that God forgive him and have mercy on

:08:27. > :08:31.him. But the anger... For him not being helped from himself is in me

:08:32. > :08:38.for letting him travel with a 15 years old passport. That was a big

:08:39. > :08:43.blunder. You have both lost a son. There are many differences in both

:08:44. > :08:46.cases, what would you say to anybody who's, any young man, British young

:08:47. > :08:57.man, who might be considering going to Syria whether to fight against

:08:58. > :09:04.IS, or for Jihadi groups like them? Don't go. That simple. Why? I can't

:09:05. > :09:09.speak for people wanting to join IS, in my opinion it is a bad

:09:10. > :09:14.organisation, so people shouldn't want to, in terms of supporting the

:09:15. > :09:17.Kurds, the Kurds have made good progress, their area is liberated

:09:18. > :09:22.and they're assisting in the liberation of other areas and things

:09:23. > :09:26.have moved on. I don't think it is as vital they have support and I

:09:27. > :09:34.wouldn't want other mums to be in our position. I will say you just

:09:35. > :09:39.are growing up. A lot of things have happened before you were born.

:09:40. > :09:45.History and so you don't know much. I will say think and don't follow

:09:46. > :09:50.your own desire, think about your loved ones, think about your parents

:09:51. > :09:57.before you make the devastation that you will leave them in and your

:09:58. > :10:02.siblings and just packing your bag one day and you leave like that, I

:10:03. > :10:12.think say about that and I will say... I will ask the question,

:10:13. > :10:17.if... If they're really thinking about going, have they talked to

:10:18. > :10:24.themselves, which good will it bring? And I want them to ask my son

:10:25. > :10:28.that went and others that have gone and look at the situation today in

:10:29. > :10:34.Syria was them going there worth it? Have they solved the problem? Have

:10:35. > :10:39.they saved the people? Are they not suffering now more than ever before?

:10:40. > :10:43.I want them to ask themselves that question. Even if you're going to

:10:44. > :10:50.help and you want to help, you have to say will the help, will the help

:10:51. > :10:53.cause more harm than good? Look at our situation, it is something we

:10:54. > :10:58.are going to live with for the rest of our lives. My son made that

:10:59. > :11:04.decision. He was young. I know he was just a human being. I am a human

:11:05. > :11:12.being, I have made mistakes as well. I don't blame him for that for the

:11:13. > :11:21.rest of his life, I ask dpod to forgive -- God to forgive. But

:11:22. > :11:26.listening to a total stranger and not listening to his mum, who looked

:11:27. > :11:29.after him and listen to my advice. He just left without even saying

:11:30. > :11:35.goodbye. Without even telling me. So think about that. Are you that

:11:36. > :11:39.courageous to put your parent through that. Do you not love your

:11:40. > :11:45.family enough for you to save them from that agony and from the stigma

:11:46. > :11:49.of you going to such a place. No one is saying don't help, there are

:11:50. > :11:55.other ways to help. There are a lot of other waifs to contribute and

:11:56. > :11:59.whether you are helping people or not, there should be no way that you

:12:00. > :12:05.should cause harm to the innocent. I don't care. Can I ask you both how

:12:06. > :12:14.you want the House of Commons to vote after this debate today? Close

:12:15. > :12:24.air support has been supportive of the Kurdish people in liberating in

:12:25. > :12:32.areas where they were oppressed by a none Syria army. It would help the

:12:33. > :12:37.Kurds and the democratic force free up areas and cut the supply lines to

:12:38. > :12:41.Raqqa and so fewer people would have to die in Raqqa. I think we should

:12:42. > :12:45.do that. Britain are going to be responsible as far as they can be

:12:46. > :12:53.whether we go in or not. The people of Raqqa will be bombed by the

:12:54. > :12:58.Russians and by Assad and whoever, at least the British have, I have

:12:59. > :13:02.strong faith they will try to minimise civilian casualties and we

:13:03. > :13:07.also need to do that in conskrungs with looking -- conjunction at

:13:08. > :13:12.looking at Turkey's role in bombing Kurdish people. You want a yes. Yes.

:13:13. > :13:21.All the experts say is looking likely. What about you? For me, it

:13:22. > :13:24.is definitely a no. Going to war has never been the solution. It will not

:13:25. > :13:31.be the solution and will never be the solution. War is a lose, lose

:13:32. > :13:38.situation. It is never bring good news. War is bad. And you know I am

:13:39. > :13:44.confused that they're sitting voting to go and bomb, I ask myself, it is

:13:45. > :13:49.like saying we are going to holiday, we are going four holiday, these are

:13:50. > :13:56.people they are going to bomb. The 80% of the people that suffer in war

:13:57. > :14:06.are the innocent civilians. And so the bomb cannot pick and choose. For

:14:07. > :14:13.me, it is a total no and for me, I don't care which government Isis,

:14:14. > :14:17.suicide bomber, whatever they call themselves, they all as equally

:14:18. > :14:23.guilty of having innocent blood on their hands. So I don't care, as

:14:24. > :14:27.long as the innocent have to pay for crime that they didn't commit I am

:14:28. > :14:35.not in for it. I'm not supporting any group. Thank you both very much.

:14:36. > :14:42.Do let us know how you wantior MP to vote and I will read your comments.

:14:43. > :14:45.Coming up: Does labelling the calories, fat and sugar in packaged

:14:46. > :14:48.foods go any way to tackling childhood obesity or are we still as

:14:49. > :15:10.Now the main news. MPs will vote on whether to ors air strikes in Syria.

:15:11. > :15:12.The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said the UK was already involved

:15:13. > :15:16.in the fight against IS, whether we liked it or not.

:15:17. > :15:21.The question is whether we will take the fight to them or wait here in

:15:22. > :15:23.London until they bring the fight to us as they did to our French

:15:24. > :15:26.colleagues in Paris. The Prime Minister is expected to

:15:27. > :15:28.win a majority but Labour is demanding

:15:29. > :15:31.an apology after he described some MPs who oppose action as "

:15:32. > :15:36.a bunch of terrorist sympathisers". A senior Scotland Yard officer says

:15:37. > :15:40.firearms police might have to "walk over casualties" to deal with

:15:41. > :15:42.the threat in the event She was speaking after

:15:43. > :15:48.a training exercise to test the way armed officers would deal with

:15:49. > :15:53.an incident in a shopping centre. governing body, Lord Coe, will give

:15:54. > :16:00.evidence to MPs investigating the sport's doping scandal this

:16:01. > :16:02.afternoon. He'll be questioned over the IAAF's response to allegations

:16:03. > :16:18.made by the Sunday Times in August. Now the sport. In cricket, the good

:16:19. > :16:27.news continues for England and Wales. 2015 saw a return to form and

:16:28. > :16:36.the year's been capped off by three players being named in the Test team

:16:37. > :16:43.of year. One man who didn't return to form in 2015 is Tiger Woods, he

:16:44. > :16:47.won 14 golf majors, but they seem a distant memory. He slipped to 4

:16:48. > :16:53.hundred in the world and he said there is no time table for a return

:16:54. > :16:58.to golf after surgery on his back. He said he spends most of his time

:16:59. > :17:01.playing video games. So he could be facing the end of one of sport's

:17:02. > :17:09.greatest ever players. This almost brought a tear to my eye, here is a

:17:10. > :17:18.moment that a snooker player missed a final ball to seal a first maximum

:17:19. > :17:19.break and ?44,000. All of that and the League Cup goals coming up after

:17:20. > :17:34.10. Thank you for your e-mails. George

:17:35. > :17:43.says simply, do not bomb. This viewer says, I hope my MP in Bedford

:17:44. > :17:52.boats for the air strikes. Dorothy says, I want the SNP to vote for air

:17:53. > :18:01.strikes. France has asked Britain, how can any MP with a conscience

:18:02. > :18:06.vote no? Dawn says, no bombs, absolutely not. The vote is

:18:07. > :18:11.pointless. Cameron should offer a free vote and everyone should be

:18:12. > :18:17.voting on the same footing. The bombers will be killing innocent

:18:18. > :18:22.civilians, and Isil will have justification to attack the UK.

:18:23. > :18:25.Thank you buoyed those, keep them coming in. You can tweak, e-mail,

:18:26. > :18:34.text and the usual. his wife say they will give away 99%

:18:35. > :18:42.of their shares in the company to good causes, as they announce the

:18:43. > :18:51.birth of their daughter. They say they want to make the world

:18:52. > :18:58.a better place for their daughter to grow up in.

:18:59. > :19:01.Mr Zuckerberg made the announcement in an open letter to his daughter

:19:02. > :19:49.With me now is entrepreneur and philanthropist Marcelle Speller.

:19:50. > :19:52.She's put a lot of her wealth and time into charitable use

:19:53. > :19:55.since the selling of her very successful website Holiday Rentals

:19:56. > :20:02.and now runs a new organisation called Local Giving.com.

:20:03. > :20:11.Hello. Hello. It is not just charities, it is private investments

:20:12. > :20:18.and other nonprofit organisations, what do you think about their move?

:20:19. > :20:25.It is brilliant. It is a great example to other people who have got

:20:26. > :20:30.a lot of money who can start doing philanthropy and charity. Also

:20:31. > :20:33.investments. You cannot spend ?30 billion overnight. You have to think

:20:34. > :20:39.about your strategy about how you are going to do it. He has already

:20:40. > :20:43.done a lot of thinking because he has mentioned the areas he is

:20:44. > :20:51.interested in. If you make investments in companies that are

:20:52. > :20:56.also forwarding your ambition, he will not be investing in tobacco or

:20:57. > :20:59.arms, he will be investing in other entrepreneurs and his money will be

:21:00. > :21:07.growing. That is fine, it is a great bit of news. He has been inspired by

:21:08. > :21:14.the birth of his daughter, what inspired you? How much was it if you

:21:15. > :21:21.do not mind me asking? It is hard to say, about 20 million. That depends

:21:22. > :21:28.on the share price. Shares can go down as well as up. For me it was my

:21:29. > :21:34.mother. I made this money quite late in my life. My mother was Dutch and

:21:35. > :21:37.mother. I made this money quite late war and she spent the rest of her

:21:38. > :21:42.life looking after people in her own way. That is why I think this is

:21:43. > :21:47.wonderful he is doing this for his daughter. I went on a course after I

:21:48. > :21:52.made my money and it was a group of about 15 people who wanted to be

:21:53. > :21:58.strategic in their giving. The first night we got together and they said,

:21:59. > :22:03.why are you doing this? 99% set my parents, my mother, my father. The

:22:04. > :22:09.fact he is doing it for his child means he is educating the next

:22:10. > :22:14.generation. That is where I got my philanthropy from. I think it is

:22:15. > :22:18.great that this little baby is inspiring them to do the same. I do

:22:19. > :22:23.not know you, we have never met before. When you wake up in the

:22:24. > :22:31.morning do you amazing because of what you have done? Do you feel

:22:32. > :22:36.morally superior to anyone else? I have had fun. I have had more fun

:22:37. > :22:41.giving away money then making it. Trying to make it is not so much fun

:22:42. > :22:47.because you do not know if you will be making it, looking back I also

:22:48. > :22:55.thought, can I pay my mortgage? I have had such fun giving. I have

:22:56. > :23:00.also used technology to harness my money. I set up local giving for

:23:01. > :23:09.small, local charities, giving them the power big charities tab to fund

:23:10. > :23:13.raise online, to get direct debits, and keep going. They are dependent

:23:14. > :23:18.on grants and grounds are disappearing. I am using technology

:23:19. > :23:23.to help other philanthropists give to charity and doing it in a very

:23:24. > :23:29.cost-effective way. It is great that I have put together my knowledge and

:23:30. > :23:33.my business experience and my money to do something that is a wonderful

:23:34. > :23:37.legacy. It will go on for a long time and it makes me feel great.

:23:38. > :23:46.Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Four men had been

:23:47. > :23:49.arrested in Luton on suspicion of committing offences under the

:23:50. > :23:58.terrorism act. The arrests were carried out in a joint operation.

:23:59. > :24:01.The men, all in their 30s, were arrested on suspicion of being

:24:02. > :24:05.involved in the commission, preparation and instigation of acts

:24:06. > :24:10.of terrorism and they are in custody at the moment in London. In Luton

:24:11. > :24:14.seven searches are being conducted at seven separate addresses and

:24:15. > :24:21.mumble of vehicles are also being searched. It is part of an ongoing,

:24:22. > :24:25.proactive investigation concerning individuals in the Luton area and is

:24:26. > :24:30.not connected to the recent attacks in Paris. Four men arrested in Luton

:24:31. > :24:32.this morning on suspicion of committing offences under the

:24:33. > :24:38.Throughout the programme we're asking how do you want

:24:39. > :24:45.We'll be hearing your thoughts on the whether Britain should

:24:46. > :24:52.There are still many MPs who remain unconvinced of the need

:24:53. > :24:55.for air strikes and one of their key concerns is whether

:24:56. > :24:57.British military boots may, in the end, be needed on the ground.

:24:58. > :25:06.Here's the former head of the armed forces:

:25:07. > :25:13.The Foreign Secretary said it will not happen. Ultimately Colonel

:25:14. > :25:19.Dannat is right, we can degrade Isil by air attacks and we can reduce

:25:20. > :25:23.their ability to carry out plots and attacks against the West and that

:25:24. > :25:28.has to be our first priority, to keep Britain safe, but in the long

:25:29. > :25:32.run we want to see the organisation destroyed and for that to happen

:25:33. > :25:36.there will need to be a ground assault on Raqqa. We are absolutely

:25:37. > :25:41.clear that British forces will not be committed to ground combat in

:25:42. > :25:47.Syria. That would be unhelpful and inappropriate. What we need to do is

:25:48. > :25:52.pursued two tracks. A military track against Isil know to keep Britain

:25:53. > :25:55.safe and to degrade the organisation, and a political tract

:25:56. > :26:00.in the Vienna talks to end the Syrian Civil War, bring the

:26:01. > :26:07.opposition forces that are fighting Assad alongside the Syrian army, so

:26:08. > :26:12.that once Assad has gone, the Syrians, working together, can

:26:13. > :26:15.reclaim their territory from occupation by Isil and can destroy

:26:16. > :26:24.this evil organisation once and for all. David Cameron said that after

:26:25. > :26:26.bomb it up to 70,000 moderate Syrian fighters would be available to fight

:26:27. > :26:30.against ideas on the ground. There was no detail

:26:31. > :26:32.on who the fighters are, where they're fighting,

:26:33. > :26:34.and what sort of relationships these so-called moderate groups have

:26:35. > :26:37.to IS, or even al-Qaeda. Here's some background on how IS

:26:38. > :27:28.might be tackled on the ground, The Syrian situation is more

:27:29. > :27:32.complicated, but there are some ground troops and other troops that

:27:33. > :27:49.are able to take action against Isil.

:27:50. > :27:59.The suggestion that there are 70,000 non-Islamist, moderate ground forces

:28:00. > :28:04.I have to say is a revelation to me and I suspect most other members in

:28:05. > :28:08.this house. The Prime Minister has talked about 70,000 Free Syrian Army

:28:09. > :28:12.troops. How many of those are on the front line in Syria as opposed to

:28:13. > :28:34.Syrian regime forces? We saw a map there

:28:35. > :28:38.in Adam's film and it's worth having As you can see it's

:28:39. > :28:48.an incredibly confusing picture - the beige colour shows areas

:28:49. > :28:55.controlled by Islamic State. Then at the top

:28:56. > :29:00.in pink are the Kurdish controlled groups - they're not included in

:29:01. > :29:04.David Cameron's 70,000 figure To the west the pale blue areas are

:29:05. > :29:20.still controlled by the regime of Bashar al Assad,

:29:21. > :29:42.and to the north and south of those You fought with Kurdish fighters in

:29:43. > :29:47.Iraq and Syria against I S. We have got a doctor who specialises in War

:29:48. > :29:52.studies. In Manchester, Simon Turner was an RAF pilot and flew over the

:29:53. > :29:59.no-fly zone is in Iraq in 1991 and also conducted armed missions.

:30:00. > :30:07.How credible is this 70 thousand figure. The map is correct, the

:30:08. > :30:13.Green Zones on the map have 70,000 men who have picked up weapons

:30:14. > :30:21.against Assad and are not radical. But this is not an army, these are

:30:22. > :30:25.70,000 armed men. They don't operate under one command and may not be

:30:26. > :30:32.willing to move across Syria to where Isis is and they may not have

:30:33. > :30:37.the ideological motivation to fight Isis in the way they fight Assad.

:30:38. > :30:43.And they're fighting against president Assad at the moment. What

:30:44. > :30:49.would be the motivation for them to change and fight Isis? Well, I would

:30:50. > :30:54.say that it would depend on the location in which they would be

:30:55. > :30:59.fighting. In some places they have fought some of the moderate groups

:31:00. > :31:06.have fought with troops of Assad against Isis. It depends on

:31:07. > :31:16.geography and the vested interested on the ground and we have to admit

:31:17. > :31:24.most of groups have a priority to fight Assad and not Islamic State.

:31:25. > :31:31.You went to fight there, is it your view after any air strikes, a decent

:31:32. > :31:38.ground force is essential to defeat Isis? Absolutely. Air strikes only

:31:39. > :31:46.go so far. We have hit individual targets, but it does p take ground.

:31:47. > :31:50.So we need people on the ground and a YPG, a Syria significant force in

:31:51. > :31:58.Syria are not included in the figures and it is crazy. Why? Well,

:31:59. > :32:03.for a start, they have had the most success against Islamic State and

:32:04. > :32:07.have taken most of land and they believe in is secular values and

:32:08. > :32:11.democracy and freedom. They're the people we want to ally ourselves

:32:12. > :32:18.with in the region and not including them in the figures is a poor thing

:32:19. > :32:23.to do. Simon Turner, what is your view about how much RAF bombing

:32:24. > :32:30.missions can cut off the head of the Isis snake as David Cameron put it?

:32:31. > :32:34.Well obviously they can only do things, they're only as good as the

:32:35. > :32:40.intelligence they're provided with. So frankly if on the ground we have

:32:41. > :32:44.disparate forces and the intelligence is unreliable then the

:32:45. > :32:50.targeting process will be unreliable. If we can get reliable

:32:51. > :32:56.intelligence, they can target effectively. So how do you get that

:32:57. > :33:01.intelligence? That is being supplied by ground forces who are potentially

:33:02. > :33:07.disparate and communication will be difficult, and also the fact that we

:33:08. > :33:09.have airborne assets which are gathering value, otherwise we

:33:10. > :33:14.wouldn't be able to make the strikes that have been made. There are

:33:15. > :33:19.numerous assets out there in the air that will gather intelligence and it

:33:20. > :33:24.can be analysed real time and effectively. Is it inevitable that

:33:25. > :33:32.innocent... Don't go away, we are still talking ing to you. It is OK

:33:33. > :33:39.we are turning the lights on. Is it inevitable that innocent people will

:33:40. > :33:46.be killed, irrespective of how the good the intelligence is. All we can

:33:47. > :33:50.hope nor is an increasing military effort against Isis will decrease

:33:51. > :33:58.the numbers killed than if we did nothing. I can't imagine that Isis

:33:59. > :34:05.would not be using human as fields. Is there a way around that? There

:34:06. > :34:11.is, working on a policy that unifies the 70,000 fighters and creates a

:34:12. > :34:16.political process and the YPG works under a civil local administration

:34:17. > :34:19.that manages the troops. If something similar is done on the

:34:20. > :34:27.other side, that would be important. We need to protect the 70,000 from

:34:28. > :34:31.the more radical groups on the ground that share logistic and

:34:32. > :34:38.sometimes share trenches with them. We will talk about the political

:34:39. > :34:52.sides later. But for I now thank you. Nor Norman Smith is at

:34:53. > :34:58.Westminster. I wonder how much difference cushion is still around

:34:59. > :35:03.the 70,000. I suspect it is Achilles heel in David Cameron's argument.

:35:04. > :35:07.There is scepticism about who the forces are and whether they would

:35:08. > :35:13.work together and would be interested in fighting Isis rather

:35:14. > :35:19.than president Assad. Major, major doubts about that. You get the sense

:35:20. > :35:24.actually that in the past 24 hours actually the opponents of air

:35:25. > :35:28.strikes have just got a bit more sort of oomph behind them on the

:35:29. > :35:35.argument and David Cameron's comments last night when at a

:35:36. > :35:38.private meeting he dubbed opponents as terrorist sympathisers that has

:35:39. > :35:45.backfired. The last element, and this is relevant on the Labour side,

:35:46. > :35:52.there has been a onslaught on social media against prowar Labour MPs. One

:35:53. > :36:00.Mike Gapes who is in hospital and seriously ill has received a torrent

:36:01. > :36:03.of abuse. Another had a mob outside her pressure. Jeremy Corbyn's people

:36:04. > :36:07.have said they think people should be respectful, but there are calls

:36:08. > :36:11.for the party to expel these individuals from the Labour Party.

:36:12. > :36:15.But let me mull some of that over with the shadow Defence Secretary

:36:16. > :36:19.Maria Eagle. First the 70,000 figure. That is a problem for people

:36:20. > :36:25.like you who believe we should take military action? I think the Prime

:36:26. > :36:29.Minister has to convince the House today in rather better style than he

:36:30. > :36:35.has so far about what he asserted on that. That is one of reasons why

:36:36. > :36:41.colleagues on all sides of the House have come to the condition collusion

:36:42. > :36:46.-- conclusion they cannot support the proposals. He has a chance today

:36:47. > :36:52.to get his arguments lined up and convince people. It is

:36:53. > :36:56.understandable why people are uneasy, the fear is at the end of

:36:57. > :37:01.the day it could be British and western troops who have to go there.

:37:02. > :37:07.I think these are some of the fears that those who say he has not made

:37:08. > :37:10.the case have. Well he has the evidence and it is up to him to

:37:11. > :37:16.convince people. He has a chance to do that. Let's talk about the Labour

:37:17. > :37:22.side. You will be arguing for action. But I feeling is you're in

:37:23. > :37:27.the minority in the Labour Party. Well, I approach this as all MPs do

:37:28. > :37:32.with calm consideration and serious thought about what this will mean

:37:33. > :37:38.for the country. We have an obligation to defend our citizens

:37:39. > :37:45.and our way of life. The UN have asked those who are capable to take

:37:46. > :37:51.all necessary measures to deal with Daesh and Isis. And I am convinced

:37:52. > :37:55.that the threat from Isil to our people, both here and abroad is

:37:56. > :37:59.rising, is significant and is directed from there. So I believe we

:38:00. > :38:04.have an obligation to deal with that. Now, colleagues in the Labour

:38:05. > :38:11.Party and across parties will come to a different view, but I say this,

:38:12. > :38:16.this decision is not taken likely by any members of Parliament, one of

:38:17. > :38:21.the most serious votes you can cast whether to put our armed services in

:38:22. > :38:28.harm's way and nobody takes that decision likely -- lightly. It is

:38:29. > :38:33.best taken in an atmosphere of calm consideration and mutual respect for

:38:34. > :38:37.different positions and the way in which the Prime Minister demeaned

:38:38. > :38:44.his office by saying what he said has not helped in that respect.

:38:45. > :38:49.Thank you. It will be a passionate debate. David Cameron may be on

:38:50. > :38:53.course to win it, but he still has a lot of difficult and searching

:38:54. > :38:56.questions to answer. Thank you. Back with you, I know you're off to the

:38:57. > :39:01.lobby now to talk to MPs. Calories, energy, salt,

:39:02. > :39:03.fat and sugar. Knowing whether food is good or bad

:39:04. > :39:06.for you should, you'd think, be fairly straightforward, but

:39:07. > :39:08.obesity is soaring and all this week The way

:39:09. > :39:12.our packaged food is labelled is a real battleground between health

:39:13. > :39:15.campaigners and food manufacturers. Two years ago,

:39:16. > :39:18.the government did a deal with industry to put colour coded

:39:19. > :39:22.warnings on the front of packs. That voluntary agreement comes

:39:23. > :39:24.into force in full this Christmas, but some manufacturers have been

:39:25. > :39:26.using it for a while. So has it made any difference so far

:39:27. > :39:30.or are we still as confused as ever? One medical condition will soon cost

:39:31. > :39:40.us more than smoking, The country's most senior doctor has

:39:41. > :39:56.warned that overweight is fast becoming the norm in British

:39:57. > :40:05.society. So the question - for government,

:40:06. > :40:08.for doctors, for the food industry, and for us -

:40:09. > :40:11.how do we start to tackle what many think is the biggest threat to

:40:12. > :40:18.public health of the 21st century? It takes an average

:40:19. > :40:21.of 15 seconds for us to decide what Position, price,

:40:22. > :40:28.even smell are important, but research shows it's often packaging

:40:29. > :40:39.that is the crucial factor. At a flat in South London,

:40:40. > :40:41.my four-year-old daughter is here, along with other children

:40:42. > :40:46.and their parents, who've all agreed to

:40:47. > :40:49.speak to us today. Anything with Frozen she will try

:40:50. > :40:52.and go for, bright colours she likes to go for, anything with, like,

:40:53. > :40:58.characters on it. It's about making a choice quickly

:40:59. > :41:01.in the supermarket, so particularly when I've got children with me,

:41:02. > :41:04.I need to do it really quickly, because my opportunity for choosing

:41:05. > :41:08.is such a small window. Eating well can be a confusing

:41:09. > :41:12.business - from next year, all foods will have to carry nutritional

:41:13. > :41:15.information on the back of the pack. In this country,

:41:16. > :41:18.most do that already, but the real Two years ago, the Government did

:41:19. > :41:25.a deal with the food industry to This panel shows the amount of fat,

:41:26. > :41:32.sugar and salt as a percent of the recommended daily amount

:41:33. > :41:35.for an adult. It is coloured green, amber and red,

:41:36. > :41:38.so has become known I much prefer

:41:39. > :41:42.when I see the colours, because at a glance I will see how much

:41:43. > :41:47.sugar or fat is in it, I don't mind if it's got sugar or fat in, I just

:41:48. > :41:51.need to know so that I can compare I think it is easier to understand,

:41:52. > :41:55.because obviously red looks like danger and so on, but I don't

:41:56. > :41:58.really follow that, to be honest. Once again,

:41:59. > :42:00.it's all in moderation... As long as it's in moderation,

:42:01. > :42:04.it's not too bad. But to force companies to use

:42:05. > :42:07.the traffic-light system would mean changing EU law in Brussels,

:42:08. > :42:12.so this front-of-pack stuff is The big four supermarkets have now

:42:13. > :42:18.all signed up for their own-label products,

:42:19. > :42:22.but Iceland doesn't use the system, M doesn't use it for all of

:42:23. > :42:25.its food range, and you'll struggle to find those warning colours on

:42:26. > :42:28.many of the largest branded goods. So has that traffic-light

:42:29. > :42:32.system really worked? Well, here on the table are

:42:33. > :42:36.some well-known brands. This group over here all use

:42:37. > :42:38.the traffic-light system in full. That includes Coke, Pepsi,

:42:39. > :42:41.Dolmio and other well-known This middle group just don't use

:42:42. > :42:47.the system whatsoever, brands like Cadbury, many Mars

:42:48. > :42:51.products, and Heinz as well. Then you have this third group over

:42:52. > :42:54.here, and it is Now, they do put all the data,

:42:55. > :42:59.all the numbers on the front of the pack, but they don't use

:43:00. > :43:03.the colour coding, so you can end up in a situation where you have

:43:04. > :43:05.competing products, here two This one here shows up amber

:43:06. > :43:12.and red for fat and sugar, this one here doesn't whatsoever,

:43:13. > :43:16.even though the ingredients are We asked some of those firms

:43:17. > :43:20.why they refused to sign up. Mars said it does use it

:43:21. > :43:23.on products sold only in the UK. Cadbury says it complies with

:43:24. > :43:27.European legislative requirements. Heinz said using it on foods like

:43:28. > :43:30.sauces, where the serving size is And McVities said it does not

:43:31. > :43:38.believe colour coding based on 100 grams, or seven digestive

:43:39. > :43:42.biscuits, is helpful. Isn't part of the problem that

:43:43. > :43:45.many of your members just refuse Well, the traffic-light labelling

:43:46. > :43:51.system itself isn't universally acknowledged as the best way

:43:52. > :43:53.of doing it. 90% of our members have front

:43:54. > :43:57.and back labelling that covers that information, but some of them choose

:43:58. > :44:00.to do it in different ways. And one of the reasons they

:44:01. > :44:03.might do it in different ways is they are producing products here

:44:04. > :44:06.that are to be sold in Europe. The trouble is,

:44:07. > :44:08.there are so many different views amongst shoppers and consumers

:44:09. > :44:11.about what they actually want. All this can get even more complex

:44:12. > :44:15.when it comes to foods which are sold with

:44:16. > :44:19.an implicit health benefit. The market for cereal bars is now

:44:20. > :44:24.worth around ?500 million a year and growing fast as we all have

:44:25. > :44:27.less time for breakfast. These are often sold next to muesli

:44:28. > :44:35.and cornflakes in the cereal aisle, but campaigners say the level

:44:36. > :44:37.of sugars in some of these products means they should be treated in the

:44:38. > :44:40.same way as sweets or chocolate. Is it possible to compare

:44:41. > :44:42.these to confectionery? It's interesting you say that,

:44:43. > :44:49.because they are more When we look at the school-food

:44:50. > :44:52.standards that have been implemented over the last year or so in schools,

:44:53. > :44:55.it actually categorises all these products as confectionery, so if say

:44:56. > :44:58.cereal bars are confectionery, they are not allowed to be supplied

:44:59. > :45:03.in schools to children at all. So that kind of already gives you

:45:04. > :45:05.an indication, actually, these product are not as healthy

:45:06. > :45:08.as you might think they are. But take this whole table

:45:09. > :45:15.of cereal bars. Some of the others do have

:45:16. > :45:23.numbers on the front, but none of If we take a product like this, if

:45:24. > :45:27.you were to colour code that, where If we were to colour code it for

:45:28. > :45:37.sugars, it would be red, and the reason for that, the colour coding

:45:38. > :45:40.system works on 100 grams, and then if we turn it around, for it to get

:45:41. > :45:44.a colour code of red, it would have to be over 22.5 grams of sugar, and

:45:45. > :45:50.this has 28, so definitely a red. It's by far, I believe,

:45:51. > :45:54.one of the best systems around the world - if it is

:45:55. > :45:57.implemented consistently across all What we would like to see is for all

:45:58. > :46:05.of them to have front-of-pack colour-coded labelling,

:46:06. > :46:09.and therefore allow the consumer to make an informed choice at a glance

:46:10. > :46:15.very quickly when they are shopping, Again, we asked the makers

:46:16. > :46:18.of these products for a response. Kellogg's made the point

:46:19. > :46:21.its snack bars are much smaller than 100 grams in size

:46:22. > :46:24.and said all its food is clearly The makers of Go Ahead said

:46:25. > :46:31.a similar thing - offering clear information per biscuit is

:46:32. > :46:33.the best way to give customers The makers of Nature Valley referred

:46:34. > :46:38.us to the industry trade body, which said shoppers need to read

:46:39. > :46:43.the label to understand how these Confusion still reigns, though,

:46:44. > :46:47.with different systems, different Next year,

:46:48. > :46:53.we understand the industry trade body will make a fresh push to get

:46:54. > :46:56.its members to sign up with Whether those members agree this

:46:57. > :47:06.time around remains to be seen. You can watch all of all our series

:47:07. > :47:09.on Sugar films by our reporter and later we'll be talking to

:47:10. > :47:14.Public Health England who are tasked with protecting and improving

:47:15. > :47:42.the nation's health and wellbeing. It has been a mild start to

:47:43. > :47:46.December. It will be much brighter in the afternoon in the South East,

:47:47. > :47:52.but that rain will linger in north east England and Wales. Back in the

:47:53. > :48:01.south east there is a fair bit of sunshine around. It is quite mild at

:48:02. > :48:03.12, 13 or 14. Further north temperatures will fall this

:48:04. > :48:10.afternoon and they will fall even further overnight. Meanwhile, this

:48:11. > :48:19.band of rain keeps things soggy over northern England and Wales, but it

:48:20. > :48:26.keeps things milder in the South. -5 is possible in the Scottish glens

:48:27. > :48:30.tonight. It will be cold, but there will be sunshine. This area of rain

:48:31. > :48:38.will not give up and it potentially could bring problems. The south and

:48:39. > :48:40.East is dry, and there will be further spells of wet and windy

:48:41. > :48:53.weather to come into the weekend. As MPs prepared to vote on air

:48:54. > :49:00.strikes in Syria, a mother whose son died in the conflict tells us why

:49:01. > :49:06.there is so much at stake. A suicide bomber, whatever they call

:49:07. > :49:14.themselves, they are all as equally guilty of having innocent blood on

:49:15. > :49:18.their hands. We want you to tell us what you want your MP to do in

:49:19. > :49:26.that, and spoke tonight. A judge has ruled that a 50-year-old woman has

:49:27. > :49:28.ruled that a woman can refuse to receive dialysis treatment because

:49:29. > :49:31.she is worried about growing old. MPs will vote later on whether to

:49:32. > :49:37.authorise UK air strikes against The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond

:49:38. > :49:41.said the UK was already involved in the fight against IS,

:49:42. > :49:47.whether we liked it or not. The question now is whether we are

:49:48. > :49:51.going to take the fight to them in their HQ or whether we are going to

:49:52. > :49:54.wait here in London until they bring the fight to us, as they did to our

:49:55. > :49:58.French colleagues in Paris. The Prime Minister is expected to

:49:59. > :50:00.win a majority in favour But Labour is demanding

:50:01. > :50:03.an apology after he described some MPs who oppose action as "a bunch

:50:04. > :50:23.of terrorist sympathisers". Four men in their 30s have been

:50:24. > :50:27.arrested in Luton on suspicion of preparing to terror attack. It is an

:50:28. > :50:34.ongoing investigation and is not linked to the Paris terror attacks.

:50:35. > :50:39.A judge has ruled that a woman is right to have refused the dialysis

:50:40. > :50:43.treatment she needs to receive. She felt she wanted to die and had lost

:50:44. > :50:46.her sparkle and did not want to get old. More on that after 10:30am this

:50:47. > :50:48.morning. governing body, Lord Coe, will give

:50:49. > :50:52.evidence to MPs investigating the sport's doping scandal this

:50:53. > :50:55.afternoon. He'll be questioned over the IAAF's response to allegations

:50:56. > :50:58.made by the Sunday Times in August. his wife say they will give away 99%

:50:59. > :51:03.of their shares in the company to good causes, as they announce the

:51:04. > :51:07.birth of their daughter. They say they want to make the world

:51:08. > :51:21.a better place for their daughter to Now it is time for the sport. It may

:51:22. > :51:25.feel as though England's cricket team has had a mixed season, but

:51:26. > :51:33.Alastair Cook has been named as the captain of the ICC team of the year.

:51:34. > :51:38.He is the current leading test run scorer in 2015 and he skippered

:51:39. > :51:42.England to victory in the Ashes. The site includes Stuart Broad and Joe

:51:43. > :51:53.Root. Joe Root is the sole Englishman in the side, but as the

:51:54. > :51:55.12th man. All 3pm rare league sides in action last night emerged

:51:56. > :52:07.unscathed against championship opposition. Manchester City beat

:52:08. > :52:20.Hull 4-1. Every beat Middlesborough 2-0. The young Spaniard scored this

:52:21. > :52:26.goal. The turbulent times of the former number one golfer Tiger Woods

:52:27. > :52:32.have been documented, but now he says he has nothing to look forward

:52:33. > :52:36.to as he recovers from surgery. He has had two back operations in the

:52:37. > :52:42.last 18 months to reduce trapped nerve. There is no timetable for

:52:43. > :52:49.this. That has been the hardest mindset adjustment. Where is the

:52:50. > :52:52.light at the end of the panel? I do not know. I have had to reset the

:52:53. > :52:58.clock each and every day and I have said, this is a new day, let's take

:52:59. > :53:04.it for what it is. I listen to my surgeon and my physios and I take it

:53:05. > :53:09.day by day. Imagine you are set for the ultimate grandstand moment in

:53:10. > :53:19.snooker, a 147 break, and you are standing over the final black. For

:53:20. > :53:31.the maximum and ?44,000. Oh, no! Would you believe it? The ?44,000

:53:32. > :53:37.bonus which have been silver lining as he lost the game eventually. He

:53:38. > :53:46.also said he was not aware of the cash prize. So close, but so far.

:53:47. > :53:51.He did it again too quickly. Can we see it again? I thought it was too

:53:52. > :54:05.fast. Usually when you are on the final

:54:06. > :54:25.black after 147 you are in your group. I am reading so many e-mails

:54:26. > :54:30.about the boat in Syria. Polly says, I want our government to target and

:54:31. > :54:36.destroy IS by every means we have, short of putting our troops at

:54:37. > :54:41.risk. Tony on twitter, regrettably there is no alternative if we want

:54:42. > :54:45.to protect our long-term security. John says, I do not think the case

:54:46. > :54:52.has been made and I have asked my MP to vote against. KR on Twitter, do

:54:53. > :54:59.not bomb Syria, or innocence will be killed. Think of your children, Mr

:55:00. > :55:06.Cameron, and then push the button. Kim says, I want my MP to vote a

:55:07. > :55:11.definite no. It will create more problems, including more refugees.

:55:12. > :55:15.Innocence will be killed and it will not read the work of terrorists. In

:55:16. > :55:20.fact, it may even inspire more people to become one. As a Syrian

:55:21. > :55:25.woman said earlier, dealing with the Assad regime first is at the heart

:55:26. > :55:35.of it all, not for getting the odd and the money.

:55:36. > :55:40.So the Prime Minister says that air strikes would be an act

:55:41. > :55:42.of self-defence, that Britain is already a target

:55:43. > :55:45.for IS terrorists - look at what happened to British tourists

:55:46. > :55:49.And that France, one of our main allies, has asked for our help.

:55:50. > :55:51.But, David Cameron says he's not just looking

:55:52. > :55:56.Britain will also step up efforts in helping secure peace in the

:55:57. > :55:59.country, with the aim of free and fair elections in 18 months time.

:56:00. > :56:01.Critics say the peace process should take

:56:02. > :56:04.priority and that military action makes us more of a terror target.

:56:05. > :56:08.But when air strikes have the potential to cause

:56:09. > :56:11.so much damage, what steps need to be taken to ensure the country can

:56:12. > :56:49.It is imperative to accelerate all diplomatic efforts to end the war.

:56:50. > :57:26.Humanitarian access must be assured through out the territory of Syria.

:57:27. > :57:30.Assad is the figurehead, he is the head of the regime. Take him out,

:57:31. > :57:42.but he is still left with an opportunity to rebuild their

:57:43. > :57:56.country? We are wasting our time. Let's look more closely now

:57:57. > :57:59.at the humanitarian and diplomatic efforts which the PM says are just

:58:00. > :58:02.as important as military action. In terms

:58:03. > :58:03.of diplomacy that effectively revolves around talks in Vienna

:58:04. > :58:05.involving countries like Iran, Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the

:58:06. > :58:08.US, France, the UK but not Syria. Professor Nadia Al-Ali is

:58:09. > :58:11.a specialist in the Middle East and Women's Studies from

:58:12. > :58:12.SOAS London University. Matthew Morris is

:58:13. > :58:14.from the International Committee In Salford is Yasmine Nulahwee

:58:15. > :58:20.from Rethink Rebuild, a Syrian The talks in Vienna are about trying

:58:21. > :58:26.to establish firstly a ceasefire between President Assad's army

:58:27. > :58:29.and rebel fighters, a transitional government in place within six

:58:30. > :58:32.months before securing a transition to an inclusive government in Syria

:58:33. > :58:35.that represents everyone through free and fair elections

:58:36. > :58:53.in 18 months. I do not think so. First of all, I

:58:54. > :58:59.should say lots of people were not sitting around that table. Women

:59:00. > :59:07.were not sitting around that table. Did you say women? Yes, where were

:59:08. > :59:13.the Syrian women? There were no Syrians. There were no Syrians

:59:14. > :59:22.either, so he is involved in these peace talks? Right now we have the

:59:23. > :59:26.only on the ground troops who are fighting Isil, who are Kurds. They

:59:27. > :59:33.are not involved in these negotiations either. They are not

:59:34. > :59:36.supported right now. If anything, Western governments, including this

:59:37. > :59:44.country, as Turkey is attacking the Kurds. This whole thing does not

:59:45. > :59:48.make sense. We know that military intervention without a close look at

:59:49. > :59:55.what is happening on the ground will create much more chaos and violence.

:59:56. > :00:00.Even though there is a military track as David Cameron would like

:00:01. > :00:05.there to be, there is a political and diplomatic track, David Cameron

:00:06. > :00:08.talks about the humanitarian track. You say what is missing is an

:00:09. > :00:16.immediate plan for rebuilding on the ground? What is missing is stopping

:00:17. > :00:22.the double standards and hypocrisy and support the people fighting

:00:23. > :00:25.Isil, the Kurds. Second is to be included in the peace talks and

:00:26. > :00:31.include the Syrian opposition and Syrian women. Syrian women are

:00:32. > :00:32.organised inside the country. That cannot be sustainable peace if women

:00:33. > :00:45.are not involved. What do you think about the peace

:00:46. > :00:49.talks and whether they can work? In looking at the past four or five

:00:50. > :00:55.years of the conflict, the only time that talks have worked is in 2013

:00:56. > :01:01.when we backed up the talks with the threat of military force. Assad has

:01:02. > :01:05.shown he will not uphold negotiations and we had numerous

:01:06. > :01:10.failed diplomatic efforts. I think that we are looking at the wrong

:01:11. > :01:20.picture, we are asking the wrong questions and saying we want to vote

:01:21. > :01:24.for air strikes against Isis. What are we doing about Assad. What the

:01:25. > :01:28.Prime Minister might say is we are going to work through over months to

:01:29. > :01:34.come up with free and fair elections. Well again negotiations

:01:35. > :01:39.in Syria have never succeeded if they were not backed by a credible

:01:40. > :01:45.threat of force. There is a credible threat of force and it may be

:01:46. > :01:49.extended if MPs vote here tonight. Not against the primary driver of

:01:50. > :01:56.the crisis. I understand against Assad. If we don't assess that

:01:57. > :01:59.threat we are not in a position to assess the threat of Isis. The

:02:00. > :02:05.Americans have been involved in the campaign for a year and what success

:02:06. > :02:10.have we seen? Nothing. Isis has grown in Syria. Can we re-evaluate

:02:11. > :02:19.our strategy and think of something that will work. Matthew Morris, the

:02:20. > :02:24.humanitarian side, we know 250,000 Syrians have already died in this

:02:25. > :02:30.civil war in the last four or five years, how does Britain joining in

:02:31. > :02:38.the bombing in Syria help the humanitarian crisis? Well, at the

:02:39. > :02:42.ICRC we work in a confidential way to talk to groups about the impact

:02:43. > :02:48.of the conduct of their hostilities. So that is something we would do

:02:49. > :02:53.behind the doors. I was on the border between Syria and Jordan and

:02:54. > :02:58.speaking to people fleeing a wide array of area and and people who had

:02:59. > :03:02.lost family members and homes, they had limited access to food and water

:03:03. > :03:06.and shelter and they were really in desperate need and then if you

:03:07. > :03:14.multiply what they were saying to other villages and towns and regions

:03:15. > :03:18.and then add in that this is such a complicated and ever changing

:03:19. > :03:23.conflict, you have a come Police Kated -- complicated situation. Any

:03:24. > :03:32.civilian in any conflict zone will be worried about where the next bomb

:03:33. > :03:40.may come from. Some of the figures are staggering, eight million people

:03:41. > :03:45.have been displaced. Four million perhaps have left and are living in

:03:46. > :03:49.other continue Rhys. We have the complicated situation of the people

:03:50. > :04:00.moving to Europe. The situation is very bleak. Can I come in here? I

:04:01. > :04:04.agree with Jasmine, most of the people are fleeing, because of the

:04:05. > :04:10.Assad regime. That doesn't in any way make Isis any less of a threat.

:04:11. > :04:15.But Isis doesn't just exist in Syria, but in Iraq, and here and we

:04:16. > :04:21.need to think more carefully. What will happen after the bombing of

:04:22. > :04:26.Raqqa is we are going to radicalise more people in Syria, because

:04:27. > :04:31.innocent civilians will be killed. Isis leaders will move to other

:04:32. > :04:35.places like Mosul, while the Assad regime will be stronger. But not if

:04:36. > :04:41.as David Cameron puts it the head of snake is cut off, they will be dead.

:04:42. > :04:47.No, there is no head of the snake. It is an animal, you cut one head

:04:48. > :04:56.and ten other heads come. It is Medusa. Can I ask you, what you

:04:57. > :05:00.think of the Prime Minister's main argument which is this would be an

:05:01. > :05:07.act of self-defence, Isis have already brought the fight to Britain

:05:08. > :05:13.and this is about us protecting our citizens. We have to realise that

:05:14. > :05:18.Isis and Assad have a very close relationship with each other and

:05:19. > :05:22.what we say of Syrians is they're two sides of the same coin. We

:05:23. > :05:30.couldn't be cutting off the head of the snake. What would happen in

:05:31. > :05:37.Syria is let's say we could get rid of Isis the conditions are such,

:05:38. > :05:40.because the ass jad regime continues -- Assad continues to cause

:05:41. > :05:44.destruction, the conditions are such that on the ground we would have the

:05:45. > :05:47.emergence of another radicalised group. Because that is what the

:05:48. > :05:52.situation is like. We need to look at the root cause of the

:05:53. > :05:57.radicalisation and what is causing it and that is the air attacks by

:05:58. > :06:05.the Assad regime. Unless we address those we cannot address the threat

:06:06. > :06:11.posed by Isis. Matthew, what is your main concern now as British voters

:06:12. > :06:15.await to see what MPs will do? Obviously our concern is that

:06:16. > :06:22.international humanitarian law, the laws of war are respected, there are

:06:23. > :06:28.three key pillars to that in any conflict. There has to be

:06:29. > :06:33.distinction between civilian objects and military objects and combatants.

:06:34. > :06:38.Easier said than done? Yes we have seen in recent years that it is very

:06:39. > :06:44.much easier said than done. But it has to be said and it has to be that

:06:45. > :06:49.we make this call that humanitarian law is respected. There has to be

:06:50. > :06:55.all precautions have to be taken when ever a military strike is

:06:56. > :07:02.conducted, that civilians and medical facilities are protected.

:07:03. > :07:06.Thank you all very much. Thank you for all your comments. This viewer

:07:07. > :07:12.said, I want my MP to vote against air strikes. I have asked him how he

:07:13. > :07:19.is voting, but he has not rely mid. John said I have asked my MP to vote

:07:20. > :07:25.against the bombing. One viewer said no to sending the RAF. Page said I

:07:26. > :07:29.want to know who Jeremy Corbyn wants us to talk to. Would he talk to Isis

:07:30. > :07:34.and give them their own state. What if that was not enough? And Karen

:07:35. > :07:37.said, I want my MP to vote against air strikes, because they're not a

:07:38. > :07:41.solution. No more killing. Thank you for those.

:07:42. > :07:44.Can you tell how much sugar you're consuming by looking

:07:45. > :07:47.at food packaging - or do the labels that are meant to help

:07:48. > :08:06.You can watch the entire series on sugar on our Facebook page. Now a

:08:07. > :08:08.story. A judge has ruled that

:08:09. > :08:10.a 50-year-old woman has the mental capacity, and the right,

:08:11. > :08:13.to refuse the kidney dialysis Our legal eagle Clive

:08:14. > :08:23.Coleman is here. Tell us about this case. It is a sad

:08:24. > :08:28.and extraordinary case. It doesn't change the law, but sad in the sense

:08:29. > :08:35.that this is a woman who has led an extraordinary high life. She has had

:08:36. > :08:39.a life revolving around her husbands, four husband, lover,

:08:40. > :08:45.possessions and live gt life which she calls a life of sparkle. Sadly,

:08:46. > :08:49.she tried to take her own life and did that by consuming pain killers

:08:50. > :08:54.washed down with champagne. She is now in a position where she needs

:08:55. > :08:58.life preserving kidney dialysis to survive. But she has made it clear

:08:59. > :09:04.she doesn't want to survive. She doesn't want to live a life where

:09:05. > :09:08.she has lost her sparkle and she is old. She has suffered financial

:09:09. > :09:14.problems, she will be poor and living in a council flat and ugly.

:09:15. > :09:20.She has set a huge store by her looks. The court of protection had

:09:21. > :09:26.to decide whether she had the mental capacity to to make a decision. I

:09:27. > :09:29.think the hospital were saying she didn't have the mental capacity? Yes

:09:30. > :09:37.the trust said she didn't have the capacity and she had a personality

:09:38. > :09:42.disorder. A history yonic personality disorder and was not

:09:43. > :09:46.able to weigh up the information. The The judge heard from

:09:47. > :09:49.psychiatrists and from the woman's daughters who have made it clear

:09:50. > :09:54.that they have spoken to their mother and their mother herself has

:09:55. > :10:02.made it clear she does not want to continue with her life if she can't

:10:03. > :10:09.live this life of sparkle. It is not about assisting dying or a doctor

:10:10. > :10:15.taking a positive step to assist to die. We all have have the right to

:10:16. > :10:20.refuse medical treatment, even if some people regard it as crazy, if

:10:21. > :10:24.we have mental capacity and make that decision based on our belief

:10:25. > :10:28.system and in this case a materialistic one, we are entitled

:10:29. > :10:33.to do that. And in in case the judge on balance having heard the evidence

:10:34. > :10:39.listened to the daughters decided the woman does have the capacity.

:10:40. > :10:43.Who are we to judge on her reasons? She is of sound mind. Not of sound

:10:44. > :10:46.body and she wants to make that decision and the judge said she has

:10:47. > :10:51.the right to make that decision? Yes he makes the point that a lot of

:10:52. > :10:57.people will find this decision a very difficult one and may regard

:10:58. > :11:07.her as foolish, but that is her belief. And another example f a

:11:08. > :11:11.Jehovah's witness had mental capacity, they would be entitled to

:11:12. > :11:15.refuse a blood transfusion. That is the law. If you have mental capacity

:11:16. > :11:17.you are entitled to refuse treatment. Even if the treatment

:11:18. > :11:31.will keep you alive. Thank you. We have been asking how you want

:11:32. > :11:43.your MP to vote in the debate that starts? S in just over an hour, the

:11:44. > :11:50.vote at 10 o'clock tonight on air strikes. It is all the commentators,

:11:51. > :11:54.all the experts say it is library that David Cameron will get a

:11:55. > :11:59.majority in favour of extending air strikes from Iraq to Syria. Thank

:12:00. > :12:05.you for your comments. We have been asking you how you would like your

:12:06. > :12:08.MP to vote. One said, no air strikes, we have contributed to the

:12:09. > :12:14.present situation. When you're in a hole stop digging. Simon said, air

:12:15. > :12:22.strikes are not the answer, Isis need to have their funding stopped

:12:23. > :12:25.by stopping black market oil. Bombing will kill innocent people

:12:26. > :12:33.and fuel more hatred towards the west that. Debate starts at half 11

:12:34. > :12:40.and you can watch it on the BBC News channel. Norman Smith in the House

:12:41. > :12:46.of Commons where all the MPs are beginning to arrive. Trending on

:12:47. > :12:54.Twitter is the hashtag, terrorist sympathiser. Sorry, I couldn't read

:12:55. > :12:59.my own writing! That is to do with comments David Cameron made about

:13:00. > :13:03.Jeremy Corbyn and others. Huge backlash against that. These were

:13:04. > :13:10.remarks that David Cameron made at a private meeting of Tory MPs, the

:13:11. > :13:18.1922 committee, where he dubbed the opponents terrorist sympathisers.

:13:19. > :13:24.That has infuriated Labour MPs, particularly those who were going to

:13:25. > :13:29.back David Cameron. John Prescott said, for our Prime Minister to call

:13:30. > :13:35.those who oppose air strikes terrorist sympathiser show what is a

:13:36. > :13:41.shallow opportunist he is. And Lucy Powell said, David Cameron calling

:13:42. > :13:49.those opposed terrorist sympathisers is an appalling comment. John Mann

:13:50. > :13:58.said he calls is sympathiser, I call him a thick, ignore rant Flashman.

:13:59. > :14:05.There is a huge backlash and talking to those around David Cameron, you

:14:06. > :14:12.could hear them... They know it is a big plunder. David Cameron has --

:14:13. > :14:15.blunder. David Cameron has sought to be reasoned and measured to build a

:14:16. > :14:20.consensus and at the last minute before the debate is about to start

:14:21. > :14:24.he comes out and brands opponents terrorist sympathisers. There is no

:14:25. > :14:30.doubt that will reduce his majority and mean many of those Labour MPs

:14:31. > :14:36.who think I'm going to defy my leader and I will back David

:14:37. > :14:42.Cameron, are thinking, no way. If he is calling us terrorist

:14:43. > :14:46.sympathisers, forget it. That is interesting you say those comments

:14:47. > :14:55.could reduce David Cameron's majority, but only reduce it, IE he

:14:56. > :14:59.is still going to win. But if he gets a small majority, it matters,

:15:00. > :15:04.if things get difficult in Syria and start to go wrong, then he does not

:15:05. > :15:12.have a solid base of Parliamentary support. In other words his backing

:15:13. > :15:17.is much more fragile. So he needs to get as big a support as he can, so

:15:18. > :15:22.if things get difficult and if war they do, he can rely on solid

:15:23. > :15:27.Parliamentary support. He needs to get a sizeable win tonight. He

:15:28. > :15:36.cannot afford to a 20 or 30 majority. Thank you. More from

:15:37. > :15:43.Norman. Now we are going to talk to some of you live about how you want

:15:44. > :15:47.your MP to vote. We will go to constituents around the country. And

:15:48. > :15:51.should the food industry be forced to be clearer about how much sugar

:15:52. > :15:57.there is in your food? MPs will vote later on whether to

:15:58. > :16:28.authorise UK air strikes against But some Labour MPs are asking him

:16:29. > :16:29.to apologise after he described those who opposed action as

:16:30. > :16:32.terrorist sympathisers. Four men

:16:33. > :16:33.in their 30s have been arrested in Luton on suspicion of committing

:16:34. > :16:36.offences under the Terrorism Act. Seven properties in the town

:16:37. > :16:38.and a number Detectives say it's part

:16:39. > :16:41.of an ongoing investigation, and The head

:16:42. > :16:46.of athletics' world governing body, Lord Coe, will give evidence to MPs

:16:47. > :16:49.investigating allegations of doping The IAAF president is also likely to

:16:50. > :16:52.face questions about his former association with

:16:53. > :17:06.the sportswear giant, Nike. They say they will get away 99% of

:17:07. > :17:12.the show is in that company to good causes. They want to make the world

:17:13. > :17:13.a safer place for their daughter Max to grow up in.

:17:14. > :17:17.England's Alastair Cook is named as captain of the ICC's Test Team

:17:18. > :17:21.Cook led England to victory in the Ashes and he's the current

:17:22. > :17:26.There are no English players in the starting one-day eleven.

:17:27. > :17:28.Gerard Deulofeu scores one and sets up the other as Everton

:17:29. > :17:30.beat Middlesbrough in the League Cup quarter-finals.

:17:31. > :17:33.Manchester City and Stoke are also through.

:17:34. > :17:36.Tiger Woods says he has nothing to look forward to and has no idea when

:17:37. > :17:41.The former world number one has had two back operations - he's now 400th

:17:42. > :17:46.in the rankings and says there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

:17:47. > :17:50.And there's agony for Thailand's Tepchaiah Un-Nooh as he fluffs the

:17:51. > :18:05.final black to miss out on a maximum 147 break and a ?44,000 bonus.

:18:06. > :18:07.All this week we're looking at the best ways of tackling

:18:08. > :18:10.childhood obesity and cutting the sugar content in what we eat.

:18:11. > :18:12.The way our packaged food is labelled is

:18:13. > :18:15.a real battleground between health campaigners and food manufacturers.

:18:16. > :18:18.Two years ago the government did a deal with industry to put colour

:18:19. > :18:20.coded warnings on the front of packs.

:18:21. > :18:23.That voluntary agreement comes into force in full this Christmas -

:18:24. > :18:26.though many manufacturers have been doing it for a while.

:18:27. > :18:29.So has it made any difference or so far are we still as confused

:18:30. > :18:39.One medical condition will soon cost us more than smoking,

:18:40. > :18:48.It takes an for us to decide what to pick on the

:18:49. > :18:51.shelf. Position, price and smell is important, but research shows it is

:18:52. > :18:59.often packaging that is the crucial factor. At a flat in South London my

:19:00. > :19:02.four-year-old daughter is here along with other children and their

:19:03. > :19:10.parents who all agree to speak to us today. Anything with frozen she will

:19:11. > :19:17.go for. Bright colours she goes for. Anything with characters on it. It

:19:18. > :19:22.is making the choice quickly in the supermarket. If I have the children

:19:23. > :19:27.with me I have to do it quickly because my opportunity is such a

:19:28. > :19:31.small window. Eating well can be confusing business. From next year

:19:32. > :19:36.all foods need to carry nutritional information on the back of the pack.

:19:37. > :19:40.In this country most to do that already, but the real battle is on

:19:41. > :19:43.the front. Two years ago the government did a deal with the food

:19:44. > :19:51.industry to put extra information here. This shows the amount of fat,

:19:52. > :19:54.sugar and salt as a percent of the recommended daily amount for an

:19:55. > :20:00.adult. It is known as the traffic light system. I prefer it when I see

:20:01. > :20:06.the colours. At a glance I can see how much sugar and fat is in it. I

:20:07. > :20:12.need to compare it with what else we are eating. It is easier to

:20:13. > :20:17.understand. Obviously read looks like danger, but I do not follow

:20:18. > :20:24.that. Once again, it is in moderation. But to force companies

:20:25. > :20:30.to use the traffic light system would mean changing EU law in

:20:31. > :20:34.Brussels, so this front of pack stuff is still voluntary. The big

:20:35. > :20:40.four supermarkets have now signed up for their own label products, but

:20:41. > :20:45.M does not use it for all of its food range and you will struggle to

:20:46. > :20:48.find those warning colours on many of the largest branding goods. Many

:20:49. > :20:54.of your members have refused to use the system point-blank. The traffic

:20:55. > :20:59.light labelling system itself is not universally acknowledged as the best

:21:00. > :21:04.way of doing it. 90% of our members have front of pack labelling that

:21:05. > :21:08.information. But they do it it in different ways and that is because

:21:09. > :21:13.they are producing products here to be sold in Europe. There are

:21:14. > :21:18.different views amongst shoppers and consumers about what they want.

:21:19. > :21:23.Confusion still reigns with different systems, different colours

:21:24. > :21:27.and different packets. Next year, we understand the industry trade body

:21:28. > :21:32.will make a fresh push to get its members to sign up to the traffic

:21:33. > :21:33.lights scheme. Whether its members agreed this time round remains to be

:21:34. > :21:54.seen. We can speak to the chief

:21:55. > :22:00.nutritionist in England. Where do you see food labelling? It is

:22:01. > :22:07.important that we can look at the product and know what is in it. The

:22:08. > :22:13.front of pack system is great, but we do not think it is the solution

:22:14. > :22:16.to the nation's obesity problem. Most people do not engage that well

:22:17. > :22:21.with food labels and they do not look at them and they are choosing

:22:22. > :22:26.things very quickly. You do that, I did it, we choose things quickly in

:22:27. > :22:30.the supermarket. We think there are structural things that could help

:22:31. > :22:35.address the nation's obesity problem. At the moment we have a lot

:22:36. > :22:43.of our food promoted to us in supermarkets and 40% is bought on

:22:44. > :22:50.fruit promotions. 241. Yes, and that is biased towards the unhealthy end

:22:51. > :22:55.of the food products. So, it does not lead to us swapping one brand of

:22:56. > :22:59.biscuits to another, it leads to as overall buying more of biscuits and

:23:00. > :23:05.that impact on the calories we consume and our weight. Getting

:23:06. > :23:09.control promotions is one of the things Public Health England is

:23:10. > :23:15.recommending. Who would have to get control? It is commissioned by the

:23:16. > :23:21.Department of Health to inform their thinking on sugar as part of the

:23:22. > :23:24.work to plan for the childhood obesity strategy which will be

:23:25. > :23:31.launched in the New Year. We hope there will be quite deep things

:23:32. > :23:35.within that. Another thing is advertising. We saw in that film

:23:36. > :23:41.packaging that has cartoons, that is very engaging for children, and that

:23:42. > :23:45.affect our food choices and what our kids consume. We believe if we had

:23:46. > :23:50.for the controls, we would have an impact on children's' diets. The

:23:51. > :23:56.government has asked you for advice on sugar and you recommend a sugar

:23:57. > :24:01.tax. The Health Select Committee supports it, but so far the

:24:02. > :24:05.government is resisting that. It was one of a series of evidence -based

:24:06. > :24:09.recommendations we make to the government and it was for a

:24:10. > :24:14.recommendation. The top three are promotions, advertising... And

:24:15. > :24:18.reformulation, cutting the sugar content. There is no reason why I

:24:19. > :24:23.yoghurt should be a quarter sugar. These products that people think are

:24:24. > :24:33.healthy can have quite a lot of sugar. Breakfast cereals have a

:24:34. > :24:37.quarter sugar. And healthy oat bars? Maybe they have been fortified with

:24:38. > :24:42.iron and zinc and you think they are better for you than they probably

:24:43. > :24:47.are. The evidence on tax shows that where they have been introduced in

:24:48. > :24:52.other countries they have had an effect in the short-term, but there

:24:53. > :24:58.is long-term evidence. Most of the taxes have happened on fizzy drinks

:24:59. > :25:07.and so on. That is an important source of sugar in the diet. One

:25:08. > :25:11.third of the child's calories comes from soft drinks, but it is not

:25:12. > :25:17.everything. We are getting sugar from a whole range of different

:25:18. > :25:24.foods. We estimate controls on promotions can have a bigger effect

:25:25. > :25:29.on taxing one product. Two thirds of adults are overweight and a third of

:25:30. > :25:36.children are. If Public Health England's job is to promote good

:25:37. > :25:40.health, are you failing? It is horrifying that one in five children

:25:41. > :25:47.arrive in primary school already obese and overweight and a third of

:25:48. > :25:50.them have tooth decay. It is a shocking public health statistics

:25:51. > :25:55.and so far the country has not had deep, strong things to influence

:25:56. > :26:00.that. We have concentrated on health promotion, telling people what they

:26:01. > :26:04.should do, we have improved our schools a lot in terms of nutrition,

:26:05. > :26:09.but we have not done the hard things, we have not really sought to

:26:10. > :26:15.control advertising and promotions and the sugar content of our diet.

:26:16. > :26:21.Do you have any private soundings that the government will listen to

:26:22. > :26:24.your recommendations? Jane Ellison, a public health minister, said in

:26:25. > :26:27.Parliament earlier this week that she had been working closely with

:26:28. > :26:34.Public Health England on this and that is absolutely true. That does

:26:35. > :26:43.not mean diddly squat with respect, does it? Or do you take that as an

:26:44. > :26:48.encouraging sign? We take it as a very encouraging sign. Very key to

:26:49. > :26:51.this is the engagement of the whole of the government in this. The

:26:52. > :26:55.Department of Health only has one part to play in this. Other

:26:56. > :27:01.government departments who work with the food industry have a role to

:27:02. > :27:05.play in it and it is a joined up approach. There is not one silver

:27:06. > :27:12.bullet that can tackle this. Everybody wants the one thing and

:27:13. > :27:18.you need a sustained, broad sweep programme if we really want to do

:27:19. > :27:22.something about obesity. And one in five children arriving at primary

:27:23. > :27:32.school, in reception class, aged four, are already obese? Obese or

:27:33. > :27:37.overweight? Which means from birth parents are making terrible

:27:38. > :27:40.decisions is in my there is one thing everybody could do and that is

:27:41. > :27:47.stop giving their children sugary drinks. The government's advice is

:27:48. > :27:52.that sugary drinks have no place in a child's diet. If everybody in the

:27:53. > :27:57.UK was to do that now, that would cut sugar intake by a third. That is

:27:58. > :28:02.a major think any parent could do. Any parent could do that, that is

:28:03. > :28:08.not impossible. You can say no to a 3 -year-old if they want the sugary

:28:09. > :28:12.drink. People get confused about the idea of trees. Is it something you

:28:13. > :28:17.can have every day? We know the average child is having the

:28:18. > :28:22.approximate to a can of sugary drink every day and once a day is too

:28:23. > :28:27.much. It is a simple, clear message, do not give kids sugary drinks.

:28:28. > :28:31.Thank you very much for talking to us and we will talk more and no

:28:32. > :28:39.doubt when the obesity strategy comes out in the New Year.

:28:40. > :28:42.So, the vote, how do you want your MP to vote tonight?

:28:43. > :28:47.Let's talk to people in constituencies around the UK.

:28:48. > :28:51.Murray is in Liverpool and she is against air strikes. James is in

:28:52. > :29:01.Cheshire and he is against air strikes. Jury is in London and she

:29:02. > :29:09.is undecided. Marry, hello to you. We have just lost her. James, what

:29:10. > :29:16.do you want your MP to do. You are a conservative voter and you want your

:29:17. > :29:25.MP to do what? I would like my MP to vote for air strikes against Isil in

:29:26. > :29:29.Syria. Why? Because I think Isis is an abomination. People say we should

:29:30. > :29:35.not go to war against them, but they are at war with us. Their aim is to

:29:36. > :29:40.destroy our civilisation and they are committing horrendous human

:29:41. > :29:45.rights abuses against people in Iraq and Syria. We are already fighting

:29:46. > :29:49.them in Iraq and we are already targets of Isil and the reason Paris

:29:50. > :29:55.has not happened here is because of the work of our security services

:29:56. > :30:00.and good luck. We are not protecting ourselves by not getting involved in

:30:01. > :30:05.this. Our allies have asked us to join in and they value our military

:30:06. > :30:09.expertise. We should be helping and it would be terrible if we do not.

:30:10. > :30:14.James, let me introduce you to marry. You are a strong supporter of

:30:15. > :30:21.Jeremy Corbyn and you have written to your MP, a Lib Dem, John Pugh,

:30:22. > :30:23.asking him to vote against strikes. Tell James why bombing in Syria

:30:24. > :30:32.would be the wrong thing. I don't agree with bombing. We have

:30:33. > :30:36.been doing it for 15 years and terrorism has increased all the

:30:37. > :30:41.time. It doesn't solve anything. God, I would hate to be in Syria at

:30:42. > :30:49.the moment, because everyone's bombing, all these poor people that

:30:50. > :30:53.are... Dying. I also think that Isis is quite cute in that they're not

:30:54. > :30:57.going to be walking about in their uniforms, they're going to be

:30:58. > :31:04.mingling with ordinary people and how are we going to take them out? I

:31:05. > :31:14.think the whole premice is ridiculous. It is like the lunatics

:31:15. > :31:21.have escaped and taken over the asylum. I don't agree. We don't

:31:22. > :31:29.protect ourselves by doing nothing. 9/11 happened before the Iraq and

:31:30. > :31:32.Afghanistan war. We hadn't bombed anybody and the Americans were

:31:33. > :31:39.targets. We will be targets whether we fight in Iraq or not. Yes,

:31:40. > :31:44.civilians will be killed accidentally, I am sure, Isis will

:31:45. > :31:48.try and make as much capital out of that, it won't be easy, it is a

:31:49. > :31:58.start and not an end. But we have to start. History shows that apiecement

:31:59. > :32:03.does not work. Look at Neville Chamberlain in Germany in 1930.

:32:04. > :32:09.Sarah is a fellow Conservative, but you have a different view to James.

:32:10. > :32:13.What do you say to him? I am happy that Marie pointed out and was

:32:14. > :32:20.focussed on ordinary people and how they're feeling on the ground, I

:32:21. > :32:23.think that politicians are disregarding this point, that is the

:32:24. > :32:31.most important point that needs to be stressed is how are these people

:32:32. > :32:36.going to be impact and will it create an ideological shift? From

:32:37. > :32:40.all the examples we have seen with military intervention in the Middle

:32:41. > :32:45.East it has not worked. We have created a cancer and by bombing

:32:46. > :32:50.innocent civilians you know it is not going to work at all. This is

:32:51. > :32:55.not the answer. Caroline Lucas stressed this point, it will

:32:56. > :33:00.increase dislike of the west and increase chances of attacks here. We

:33:01. > :33:06.are going to see another 7/7. That would not be surprising for me. It

:33:07. > :33:12.has been a disaster and we are adding fuel to the fire. I think

:33:13. > :33:18.you're undecided is that correct what will it take you to help you

:33:19. > :33:24.make up your mind? I was undecided, because it is such a complex

:33:25. > :33:29.situation that you can't say so. For me, I'm glad I'm not making the

:33:30. > :33:33.decision. If I was an MP I wouldn't be able to make a final decision on

:33:34. > :33:43.this. It is such a difficult situation. You know, my reservations

:33:44. > :33:49.are there are innocent civilians and I agree there is some sort of

:33:50. > :34:01.intervention necessary. But I'm not sure air strikes are the right way.

:34:02. > :34:05.I will come back to you in a second. I pause because John Kerry has been

:34:06. > :34:13.speaking about this. Nothing would do more to cut the legs from beneath

:34:14. > :34:20.Daesh than success in de-escalating the war in Syria a bringing closer

:34:21. > :34:27.the day when refugees can return home. Yesterday, I also called on

:34:28. > :34:33.every NATO ally to step up its support for the fight against Daesh.

:34:34. > :34:41.Striking at the organisation's core in Syria and Iraq. Strangling its

:34:42. > :34:47.effort to set up networks elsewhere and defending our ally Turkey and

:34:48. > :34:53.other countries in the region, Jordan and Lebanon particularly. I

:34:54. > :34:57.was gratified that a number of allies are already bringing more to

:34:58. > :35:08.this battle, or are planning to increase their contributions. John

:35:09. > :35:12.Kerry, the US Secretary of State confirming that NATO members are

:35:13. > :35:22.ready to step up. Harry, what do you want your MP to do tonight? My MP is

:35:23. > :35:27.a Labour MP and I think that she will follow her leader rather than

:35:28. > :35:33.doing the right thing, which is in this case would be going with the

:35:34. > :35:39.view that we should have a mandate to do air strikes in Syria, because

:35:40. > :35:44.it did not make any sense that we have got air strikes that can be

:35:45. > :35:51.carried out in Iraq, but across the border, an arbitrary border that is

:35:52. > :35:56.not respected by anybody, that we can't carry out air strikes. But it

:35:57. > :36:01.is a complex issue and the complexities are that we are already

:36:02. > :36:08.part of NATO and John Kerry mentioned that as part of NATO, they

:36:09. > :36:13.want to step up the things that are happening in Syria. Now, we can go

:36:14. > :36:22.down that route if we wish to. And we should do. But what my main issue

:36:23. > :36:29.with what is happening now as far as the British Government's concerned

:36:30. > :36:34.is that Daesh is being bombing and killing and causing all kinds of

:36:35. > :36:37.mayhem, but what he's happened in Paris is the one driving and

:36:38. > :36:43.fuelling everything that is happening. I want that to stop and

:36:44. > :36:47.step back and think for the UK on its own feet and not as a

:36:48. > :36:53.reactionary thing to what happening across the channel. That is my issue

:36:54. > :36:58.and I would they would calm down, readdress ourselves and not on this

:36:59. > :37:02.heat of the moment take decisions which are going to affect us

:37:03. > :37:10.long-term. Our country will be affected long-term. Do you think if

:37:11. > :37:13.your Labour Party MP is a terrorist sympathiser as David Cameron called

:37:14. > :37:20.Jeremy Corbyn and those who will vote against air strikes? I think

:37:21. > :37:25.for senior politicians to you know, somebody like myself can say things

:37:26. > :37:29.like that, maybe and get away with it, but senior politicians should be

:37:30. > :37:39.well advised to choose the correct wordings. I don't think that is he

:37:40. > :37:50.meant. It was something in the heat of the moment. Let's calm down and

:37:51. > :37:57.tackle this with a cool head. I will hear from another two guests. Let's

:37:58. > :38:00.go back to the House of Commons, Norman Smith, you have been talking

:38:01. > :38:08.to Downing Street what are they saying? I'm told that in the wake of

:38:09. > :38:11.the whole terrorist sympathiser backlash, when help gets on his feet

:38:12. > :38:17.in the House of Commons, David Cameron will allude to that and say

:38:18. > :38:22.I respect the sincerely held views of those who have long opposed

:38:23. > :38:33.military action. In other words, he will try and correct the gaffe of

:38:34. > :38:37.last night. Albeit, he was saying he was trying to make a reference to

:38:38. > :38:45.Jeremy Corbyn in particular and his previous support for the likes of

:38:46. > :38:51.Sinn Fein and Hamas, but No 10 know this is you know profoundly damaging

:38:52. > :38:55.on the cusp of this debate and it is worth pointening out after that

:38:56. > :39:04.meeting which was a meeting of Labour MPs, they did not brief out

:39:05. > :39:09.the lines, it was not a spokesman saying they were terrorist

:39:10. > :39:13.sympathisers, it came from Conservative MPs. But these meet rgs

:39:14. > :39:17.never private. We always get information about what is said. Why?

:39:18. > :39:21.Because there is a hundred or so people there and one or two will

:39:22. > :39:27.always talk. It is surprising given the sensitivity of the debate that

:39:28. > :39:31.even in a private meeting David Cameron should make such remarks,

:39:32. > :39:42.because they could backfire. Robbie, do you think David Cameron when said

:39:43. > :39:45.people who will vote against air strikes are terrorist sympathisers

:39:46. > :39:52.or what we will say in the House of Commons today. I won't respect

:39:53. > :39:56.either. There are MPs voting who are not terrorist sympathiser, but

:39:57. > :40:00.decided they cannot vote for it. It was a massive blunder by David

:40:01. > :40:05.Cameron. A lot of Labour people who were saying there is jep side on the

:40:06. > :40:10.ground -- genocide on the ground are going to feel David Cameron is being

:40:11. > :40:18.bomb Bastick and armed his case. What is your MP and what do you want

:40:19. > :40:24.them to do. It is Ian Murray. He will vote against. But I want him to

:40:25. > :40:33.vote for. How do we deal with the genocide in Iraq. The only way to do

:40:34. > :40:41.that is through bombing and asway the doubts, our bombing campaign in

:40:42. > :40:49.Iraq has had zero civilian carps. Carpties. We should -- casualties.

:40:50. > :40:52.We should see that we will minimise casualties by having RAF

:40:53. > :41:01.involvement, because they're so specialised. Another guest, do you

:41:02. > :41:05.buy that that the RAF has precision-guided missiles that can

:41:06. > :41:11.avoid the deaths of innocent civilians? I would take wit a pinch

:41:12. > :41:21.of salt. I think that when we discuss this issue we should

:41:22. > :41:25.remember that how did we get here? They say experience is the best

:41:26. > :41:31.teacher, but I don't see history lessons being heeded. Isis is a

:41:32. > :41:35.creation of the Iraq war. We are ienically going after the --

:41:36. > :41:39.ironically going after the ghosts of that war. It is a war that is now

:41:40. > :41:44.widely regarded as illegal and I don't think it will secure our

:41:45. > :41:50.borders. If you look around in other countries when US launched drone

:41:51. > :41:58.strikes in Pakistan and the Taliban came back with a vengeance. You may

:41:59. > :42:02.think you have quietened they will down. But they come back for

:42:03. > :42:06.Morseful. Even though as David Cameron said, alongside a military

:42:07. > :42:10.intervention in Syria is the political and diplomatic process

:42:11. > :42:13.which is ongoing in Vienna and there have been two rounds of talks and

:42:14. > :42:19.there will be more in January. He said that is as important, it is a

:42:20. > :42:24.twin-track approach. It seems like if you're going to take those

:42:25. > :42:32.approaches, you're going to... They're not, one is not compensating

:42:33. > :42:39.for the other. The damage done by air strikes will be more widespread

:42:40. > :42:47.and dim out any diplomatic efforts, which are not wort the paper they're

:42:48. > :42:52.written on. They're something other in pen and we need to rethink our

:42:53. > :42:56.trading partners and the money we make out of oil rich Middle East and

:42:57. > :43:05.get to the root of how they're funding and cutting off their supply

:43:06. > :43:11.lines. Are you a terrorist sympathiser? No I British in British

:43:12. > :43:12.values of freedom and freedom of expression and conscience and

:43:13. > :43:18.religion. Koim from a group of -- I religion. Koim from a group of -- I

:43:19. > :43:23.come from a minority group in Islam and we are persecuted in our home

:43:24. > :43:25.country and I have experienced terrorist attacks very close to

:43:26. > :43:28.home. Would you call terrorist attacks very close to

:43:29. > :43:34.Cameron to terrorist attacks very close to

:43:35. > :43:41.phrase in the House of Commons? I should think so. But I am not sure

:43:42. > :43:48.how, what the value of such an apology would be. Thank you all very

:43:49. > :43:58.much. Coverage throughout the day on BBC news and the result tonight

:43:59. > :44:03.about 10 o'clock. We are back tomorrow at 9.15. Have a good day.