13/01/2016

:00:00. > :00:20.The man who claims to have fathered up to 800 children

:00:21. > :00:26.It's legal but unlicensed and there are concerns that some

:00:27. > :00:29.-- concerns about what it could mean for the children.

:00:30. > :00:33.Private sperm donors now help out more people than regulated sperm

:00:34. > :00:38.Back to work for tens of thousands of junior doctors on strike.

:00:39. > :00:41.Their 24 hour walk-out ends this morning -

:00:42. > :00:45.now efforts begin to avoid a second one in two weeks' time.

:00:46. > :00:48.In his final State of the Union address, President Obama delivers

:00:49. > :00:55.a message of optimism for the future of the United States.

:00:56. > :01:02.The United States of America, right now, has the strongest, most durable

:01:03. > :01:14.economy in the world. Thanks for joining us -

:01:15. > :01:19.we're on BBC Two, the BBC News Channel and online

:01:20. > :01:21.until 11 this morning. We'll keep you across the latest

:01:22. > :01:24.breaking and developing stories including news from Iran,

:01:25. > :01:28.where two US Navy patrol boats - with ten sailors on board -

:01:29. > :01:31.have been seized by Iran US officials say the boats

:01:32. > :01:37.were on a training mission when one of them developed a mechanical fault

:01:38. > :01:41.and drifted into Iranian waters. We're hearing the United States has

:01:42. > :01:44.apologised and is expecting Lots of new lines have been emerging

:01:45. > :01:49.on that this morning - we'll keep you up to date

:01:50. > :01:53.as that story develops. Also a little later,

:01:54. > :01:55.we're hoping to hear couple who have won half of last

:01:56. > :01:59.Saturday's ?66 million Two ticket holders matched the six

:02:00. > :02:04.winning numbers and even though the total prize is shared,

:02:05. > :02:07.it is still the biggest As ever, your

:02:08. > :02:10.contributions are really Do get in touch

:02:11. > :02:13.throughout the programme. Texts will be charged

:02:14. > :02:20.at the standard network rate. And, of course, you can watch

:02:21. > :02:23.the programme online wherever you are, via the BBC News

:02:24. > :02:25.app, or our website - and you can also subscribe

:02:26. > :02:29.to all our features on the News app, by going to "add topics"

:02:30. > :02:33.and searching "Victoria Derbyshire". Meet the British

:02:34. > :02:35.man who claims to have fathered up to 800 children

:02:36. > :02:38.through sperm donation. 41-year-old Simon Watson

:02:39. > :02:41.is an online sperm donor - it's cheap, easy and

:02:42. > :02:45.completely unregulated. Every year, thousands of women

:02:46. > :02:48.in the UK are so desperate to get pregnant that they turn

:02:49. > :02:52.to online donations - risking getting a sexually

:02:53. > :02:54.transmitted infection or having They do this because very few women

:02:55. > :03:02.are eligible for artificial insemination on the NHS

:03:03. > :03:04.as the criteria are very strict. Private licensed clinics cost

:03:05. > :03:08.between ?500 and ?1,000 Simon Watson charges

:03:09. > :03:13.?50 for his services - I'd like to get the world record

:03:14. > :03:21.ever, make sure no-one's going to break it, get

:03:22. > :03:27.as many as possible. Usually about one

:03:28. > :03:33.a week pops out, so... I reckon I've got

:03:34. > :03:36.about 800 or so, so far. I just picked up the

:03:37. > :03:52.results from hospital. I get tested three months to show

:03:53. > :03:55.I've got no nasty things. I always post a copy

:03:56. > :03:57.on the internet so people can My name's Simon Watson

:03:58. > :04:13.and I'm a sperm donor. If you go to a fertility clinic,

:04:14. > :04:16.there's loads of hurdles you've got They make people sit

:04:17. > :04:20.through counselling sessions and they make you go

:04:21. > :04:25.through huge amounts of tests and then charge absolute fortunes

:04:26. > :04:27.for the service but, realistically, if you've

:04:28. > :04:30.got a private donor, you can just go and

:04:31. > :04:32.see them, meet them somewhere, get what

:04:33. > :04:34.you want and just go. I charge them ?50 and that's it

:04:35. > :04:50.for the magic potion pot, and then I give them a syringe

:04:51. > :04:53.with the pot and then leave So what you do is basically

:04:54. > :04:57.unregulated sperm I privately meet people

:04:58. > :05:04.on the internet. Private sperm donors now help out

:05:05. > :05:09.more people than regulated There's Toddington

:05:10. > :05:17.Services up the road. Some people choose to stay

:05:18. > :05:28.overnight but a lot of them get the magic potion

:05:29. > :05:32.from me, go and pop it in a soft You can do it standing

:05:33. > :05:35.up in a services bathroom and off they go,

:05:36. > :05:38.back on the way home again. I must've had 200 children

:05:39. > :05:52.conceived in this place! Most of the people I help out tend

:05:53. > :05:58.to be from Facebook. When people join

:05:59. > :06:00.the site, I see their name and I send them a message

:06:01. > :06:05.explaining the service I provide cos it's like artificial insemination

:06:06. > :06:16.on me and I think they like the fact -- only. I'm not going to try

:06:17. > :06:20.and get anything funny out Because I charge people

:06:21. > :06:36.for my service, there's other people that would be happy

:06:37. > :06:38.to provide by the service at

:06:39. > :06:40.no charge but then they'd Some ladies are looking

:06:41. > :06:46.for that, too. Some ladies are lady

:06:47. > :06:48.couples, like the ones I won't know who they are,

:06:49. > :06:53.unless they wanted to contact People say, am I being

:06:54. > :07:01.irresponsible by not But I do if they want to be kept

:07:02. > :07:09.track of but a lot of people tend to disappear and when

:07:10. > :07:14.the kids are older I start getting message saying,

:07:15. > :07:16."here's a picture of such and such About a third of the people it

:07:17. > :07:22.works on straightaway and about another third,

:07:23. > :07:24.it might work second time around. Some people struggle but then that

:07:25. > :07:27.could be all kinds of problems Blocked tubes, endomitriosis,

:07:28. > :07:30.thickening of the womb lining If their technique's not good,

:07:31. > :07:35.if they haven't put it in far enough, so that's not

:07:36. > :07:37.going to help them. Yes, sorry I missed

:07:38. > :08:01.you before, when I I haven't got anything

:08:02. > :08:07.like sickle cell or I haven't got anything, sort of,

:08:08. > :08:12.hereditary nasty or something The only people I wouldn't

:08:13. > :08:20.donate to is if someone's You know, some people might be a bit

:08:21. > :08:25.strange but that's not so bad but if they've completely lost it,

:08:26. > :08:28.then I run a mile, you know. So I think you sound

:08:29. > :08:40.like you'll be all right. I usually take it to

:08:41. > :08:42.the customer myself. They're the syringes

:08:43. > :08:44.I've been using for ages They're like sealed,

:08:45. > :08:48.sterile ones, ten That's the sterile,

:08:49. > :08:54.sealed polypropylene Right, I'll see you in

:08:55. > :09:16.about half an hour or so. Idle hands make easy

:09:17. > :09:35.work for the devil. I couldn't remember before

:09:36. > :09:41.if I'd seen them or not. I couldn't exactly say

:09:42. > :09:44.to them, "Oh, you know, I couldn't remember

:09:45. > :09:46.if I'd seen you or not". I've got kids all the way

:09:47. > :09:50.from Spain to Taiwan. I've got a bigger

:09:51. > :09:56.spread than Genghis Khan. I don't think I've caught up

:09:57. > :10:00.with him on numbers yet but I think Is there some sort of ego involved

:10:01. > :10:06.in it, that you think that you're such a wonderful person

:10:07. > :10:08.you want to spread your genes For example, I didn't get my first

:10:09. > :10:16.girlfriend until I was about 18 I thought, "Oh, God,

:10:17. > :10:19.I'm never going to get married I'd like to get the world record

:10:20. > :10:29.ever, make sure no one's going to break it, get

:10:30. > :10:33.as many as possible. Usually about one a week pops out,

:10:34. > :10:37.so I reckon I've got about 800 So within about four years,

:10:38. > :10:41.I would like to crack 1000. I think one of the biggest

:10:42. > :10:42.criticisms I've heard about unregulated sperm

:10:43. > :10:46.donation, ie private customers, private businesses like yourself,

:10:47. > :10:50.is that there's a possibility of men taking advantage of women,

:10:51. > :10:52.abusing women who are desperate I've never actually heard

:10:53. > :10:55.about anyone that's been attacked There's a few strange ladies that

:10:56. > :11:03.have said that things have happened In my own case, I've got

:11:04. > :11:21.three of my own children and I always wanted to have

:11:22. > :11:25.at least three kids. So the wife at that time,

:11:26. > :11:33.although she at first said she wanted three, at

:11:34. > :11:35.two she said she'd had So when I ended up getting

:11:36. > :11:39.a divorce I thought, Rather than going

:11:40. > :11:41.through all that again, I'd much rather go down

:11:42. > :11:44.to a sperm bank, have kids there and if they ever

:11:45. > :11:46.come and see me later, My oldest son Thomas has been doing

:11:47. > :11:52.quite a lot on Facebook for me. That's been quite helpful,

:11:53. > :11:54.to say the least. If you ever need, seriously

:11:55. > :12:03.want to contact... I am glad you know he's

:12:04. > :12:05.born happy and healthy. It's quite a funny job,

:12:06. > :12:07.really, but somebody's A dirty job but somebody's

:12:08. > :12:11.got to do it. Whereas if he wasn't

:12:12. > :12:21.there to do it, they'd have to go without and,

:12:22. > :12:23.I don't know, that's They could always have this one -

:12:24. > :12:27.free to a good home. When a photograph comes up,

:12:28. > :12:31.it makes me happy, really. I look at it and it's just nice

:12:32. > :12:35.to think I've got another brother or sister out there

:12:36. > :12:37.and someone else has, like... And you get that really often,

:12:38. > :12:42.literally all the time. You just get a random

:12:43. > :12:47.brother or sister come there say things like,

:12:48. > :12:51.this is unregulated, it's dangerous. If you got that many

:12:52. > :12:53.offspring - say 800 offspring - there's a chance

:12:54. > :12:56.of incest in the future. I think realistically,

:12:57. > :12:59.internet nowadays and everything like that,

:13:00. > :13:05.if you know your parents used a sperm donor, send your DNA

:13:06. > :13:08.off, straight up, get I think the fact

:13:09. > :13:15.that you've got such a high sperm count probably

:13:16. > :13:18.helps towards it, too. In a way, so many people,

:13:19. > :13:24.for example, get divorced, so why bother going through all

:13:25. > :13:27.this finding Mr Right? You might as well just go

:13:28. > :13:31.and find a donor who suits what you're after and just

:13:32. > :13:34.have a kid and you definitely You don't have to share them,

:13:35. > :13:39.you don't have to share I'm not looking at the negative side

:13:40. > :13:47.but it's just a fact. You can watch the film

:13:48. > :13:50.again on our programme And we will be hearing

:13:51. > :13:56.from the man himself, the independent regulator

:13:57. > :14:00.of the UK fertility industry, who say they have safety

:14:01. > :14:14.concerns, just after ten. Lots of you getting in touch. Corrin

:14:15. > :14:17.is not sure it is a good thing for genetic diversity. Frank says

:14:18. > :14:21.children have the right to know that biological parents and anonymity of

:14:22. > :14:25.donors should be forgiven. Ness asks if the children are being raised

:14:26. > :14:29.knowing who their biological father is. She says it is irresponsible if

:14:30. > :14:32.not. Keep your thoughts coming in. I will be interviewing him later and

:14:33. > :14:36.we will put some of your comments to him then.

:14:37. > :14:38.Thanks for joining us today - still to come...

:14:39. > :14:42.We'll have the latest on diplomatic efforts to release ten US sailors -

:14:43. > :14:47.detained after allegedly straying into Iranian waters.

:14:48. > :14:53.President Obama delivers his final state of the union address -

:14:54. > :14:55.strongly defending his legacy and hailing America's place

:14:56. > :14:59.But he also expressed regret that politics in the US had become more

:15:00. > :15:06.Iran says the United States has apologised after ten American

:15:07. > :15:09.sailors were arrested for entering Iranian waters.

:15:10. > :15:13.Two US Navy patrol boats were seized by Iran in the Gulf.

:15:14. > :15:16.US officials say the boats were on a training mission

:15:17. > :15:24.A suicide bomb near a polio vaccination centre in Pakistan has

:15:25. > :15:28.Polio workers have been the target of many deadly attacks

:15:29. > :15:30.by Islamist militants because of their opposition

:15:31. > :15:40.Most of those killed were police officers guarding the centre.

:15:41. > :15:43.A strike by junior doctors in England comes to an end -

:15:44. > :15:45.now there are fresh attempts to avert another one

:15:46. > :15:48.Altogether just under 3,500 operations cancelled were cancelled

:15:49. > :15:52.Millions of people in England and Wales are paying too much

:15:53. > :15:56.for their water supply because of poor industry regulation,

:15:57. > :16:01.They said many people would be "appalled" to learn their water

:16:02. > :16:12.Eto'o LaFell and walking to nursery alone has led police to the body of

:16:13. > :16:15.her dead mother. The two-year-old girl was discovered by a police

:16:16. > :16:16.community support officer who was driving with his wife when they

:16:17. > :16:17.spotted her. Nasa releases more details about

:16:18. > :16:19.Tim Peake's upcoming spacewalk. The astronaut is due to leave

:16:20. > :16:21.the International Space Station on Friday to replace

:16:22. > :16:24.a failed power unit. It will be the first time that

:16:25. > :16:27.a British astronaut has carried out Let's catch up with all

:16:28. > :16:31.the sport now and join Ore and it was a thriller

:16:32. > :16:39.at St James's Park last night. It really was. They definitely got

:16:40. > :16:45.their money worth at St James's Park. Only yesterday we were talking

:16:46. > :16:49.about how manager Louis Bandar was saying how he had been bored by his

:16:50. > :16:56.Man Utd side over the last few weeks. Definitely not the case last

:16:57. > :17:02.night. 3-3 between Man Utd and Newcastle United. Man Utd will

:17:03. > :17:07.probably be the more disappointed. They lost 2-0, and 3-2, when Wayne

:17:08. > :17:13.Rooney scored with a screamer before Paul Bennett equalised in injury

:17:14. > :17:17.time. Steve McClaren actually predicted a 3-3 draw. They said

:17:18. > :17:23.ironically because Newcastle had not scored in the last few games, and

:17:24. > :17:30.Man Utd Haddin, wouldn't it be funny if it was a 3- through draw. -- 3-3

:17:31. > :17:34.draw. Also in rugby union today, a will be interesting for the England

:17:35. > :17:38.rugby union side because the new coach Eddie Jones will name his

:17:39. > :17:42.first elite squad ahead of the six Nations next month. What will that

:17:43. > :17:45.mean for the England side and the new captain? We won't know that

:17:46. > :17:50.today but we are hearing that it will be a disappointing day for

:17:51. > :17:57.Danny Cipriani, the fly half at Sale where it looks like he will be

:17:58. > :18:00.overlooked yet again. We will bring you all of that newsletter.

:18:01. > :18:08.We have some breaking news from Fifa announcing it has dismissed Jerome

:18:09. > :18:16.Valcke of secondary tremble of Fifa with immediate effect. -- as

:18:17. > :18:18.Secretary General of Fifa. We will bring you more on that later.

:18:19. > :18:21.The first doctors' pay strike in 40 years finished an hour

:18:22. > :18:24.It saw medics with placards standing at picket lines outside 150

:18:25. > :18:26.hospitals in England, and just under 3,500 operations

:18:27. > :18:29.cancelled, many of them day cases, but more than 1,200 affecting

:18:30. > :18:32.There are two more strikes scheduled in the coming weeks.

:18:33. > :18:37.Yesterday we held a debate about the strike and spoke to health service

:18:38. > :18:40.workers about their views. As junior doctors, we are already stretched

:18:41. > :18:43.with what we're currently doing, so the government may say we're not

:18:44. > :18:48.going to provide any more junior doctors. We are not going to change

:18:49. > :18:52.the play. And yet we appeared to have more junior doctors working at

:18:53. > :18:56.weekends. What we say is where are you getting these junior doctors

:18:57. > :19:00.from? Because at the moment the maths just doesn't add up and it

:19:01. > :19:07.seems like it is all political spin unfortunately. If we are going to

:19:08. > :19:09.talk about wages, safe delivery of professionals in the hospitals, the

:19:10. > :19:14.mistake we have made here is to talk about one group. It is more than

:19:15. > :19:19.just doctors that work in hospitals, we need to talk about the conditions

:19:20. > :19:23.of everyone who works in the NHS together, and only by doing that can

:19:24. > :19:26.we create an NHS that provides the care it needs seven days a week

:19:27. > :19:27.safely. That was part of our discussion yesterday.

:19:28. > :19:30.Let's talk about the strikes impact now with Chris Hopson,

:19:31. > :19:34.Chief Executive at NHS Providers - which represents NHS Trusts.

:19:35. > :19:41.Just to be clear on your position, you speak in behalf of the NHS

:19:42. > :19:45.trusts but you don't actually carry the responsibility and you are not

:19:46. > :19:51.directly involved in this dispute? Correct. Around 3500 operations

:19:52. > :19:57.cancelled during the strike. Was patient care compromised? Clearly,

:19:58. > :20:01.there will have been 3500 grandmothers, mothers, sisters,

:20:02. > :20:03.brothers, who were waiting for an operation or a procedure yesterday

:20:04. > :20:09.who probably will be in some pain, who probably have been waiting for

:20:10. > :20:12.an operation, and who therefore had that procedure or operation

:20:13. > :20:17.cancelled, so they clearly has been an impact on them. On these

:20:18. > :20:21.occasions, the NHS of course does everything it can and did everything

:20:22. > :20:25.it could to ensure that patient safety was not compromised. There

:20:26. > :20:29.are two more walk-outs scheduled and hopefully this dispute may be over,

:20:30. > :20:33.they may not go ahead, but if they do, a third of the walk-outs is 10th

:20:34. > :20:39.of February, which would be a full withdrawal of labour, junior doctors

:20:40. > :20:45.won't cover emergency care. Can patient safety be guaranteed then?

:20:46. > :20:49.There is a real concern, the second strike is a 48-hour strike, and

:20:50. > :20:54.clearly it is one thing covering a 24 strike, a different thing

:20:55. > :20:57.covering a 48-hour strike. But as you say, a third projected strike is

:20:58. > :21:02.the first time ever that emergency care would be withdrawn. Clearly

:21:03. > :21:10.that is something that does concern hospital managers. If we get to that

:21:11. > :21:14.point, we would clearly need to have a dialogue with junior doctors and

:21:15. > :21:20.with the BMA about if we found in a hospital that patient safety

:21:21. > :21:25.generally was -- genuinely was compromised, could we call junior

:21:26. > :21:30.doctors back in? How acrimonious is this now? And looking at what

:21:31. > :21:35.happened yesterday and the way the strike was conducted, what do you

:21:36. > :21:39.think specifically about Sandwell hospital in West Bromwich putting up

:21:40. > :21:45.that level four alert, telling its doctors they had to go back to work?

:21:46. > :21:49.In terms of the general question, I think there is a real concern

:21:50. > :21:53.amongst our hospital chief executives about how acrimonious the

:21:54. > :21:56.strike has been. I have been really concerned for example about some of

:21:57. > :22:00.the language that has been used on social media, which I think is

:22:01. > :22:07.really polarising people. On both sides? I don't want to point fingers

:22:08. > :22:10.but I am saying the debate has become very black-and-white where in

:22:11. > :22:16.reality there are lots of shades of grey here. In terms of individual

:22:17. > :22:23.hospitals, and you mentioned Sandwell, I can't particularly about

:22:24. > :22:29.that but hospital managers, if they think they potentially have a real

:22:30. > :22:33.issue, it is easier exactly the right thing to go to the local BMA

:22:34. > :22:37.representatives and say we have a real problem here, could you

:22:38. > :22:40.consider letting junior doctors come back off strike so that I can

:22:41. > :22:45.guarantee safety in my hospital. That is what you expect a hospital

:22:46. > :22:48.manager and Chief Executive to do. It has been claimed by some it will

:22:49. > :22:54.be a fraudulent attempt to break the strike, does that help the situation

:22:55. > :23:01.at the moment when is acrimonious? I don't think so. What would it is

:23:02. > :23:08.these things are not resolved in industrial pursuits, it is by going

:23:09. > :23:13.around the table and having a sensible conversation, which by the

:23:14. > :23:17.way recognises the unique and important contribution junior

:23:18. > :23:22.doctors make to a hospital. I talked hospital chief executives every and

:23:23. > :23:25.what they say to me is junior doctors are fundamental to the

:23:26. > :23:31.running of my hospital, it is very important that we have the right pay

:23:32. > :23:34.terms and conditions, and that they should be motivated. The second

:23:35. > :23:40.thing they want to say to these look what has happened in the national

:23:41. > :23:44.economy in the last 50 years, local government, retail, manufacturing,

:23:45. > :23:47.we have moved to 24 hour, seven day a week services, and contracts have

:23:48. > :23:51.had to change to reflect the fact we are now having to provide that

:23:52. > :23:54.service 24 hours a day, seven days a week. What we are saying is the

:23:55. > :23:57.National Health Service is one of the very few bits of our economy

:23:58. > :24:02.where we are providing a service, the clue is in the word National

:24:03. > :24:08.Health Service, and we haven't moved towards full 24 hours a day, seven

:24:09. > :24:11.days a week services. In every place where it has happened in every other

:24:12. > :24:14.part of the national economy, that has been accompanied by a change to

:24:15. > :24:23.contracts and that is what needs to happen here. Would you say the

:24:24. > :24:29.doctors are in transit and -- intransitive? No, but two things

:24:30. > :24:31.need to happen, we need to appropriately rewarded junior

:24:32. > :24:35.doctors for the contribution they make to the NHS but we also have to

:24:36. > :24:39.modernise the service because we have to provide the right service to

:24:40. > :24:43.the 53 million people in this country who pay their tax payers

:24:44. > :24:47.money to make the service work effectively, we need to modernise

:24:48. > :24:50.the contracts. When you say appropriately reward doctors, they

:24:51. > :24:54.are not asking for more money, what they don't think is acceptable is

:24:55. > :24:58.that they are being asked to do more anti-social hours, potentially more

:24:59. > :25:03.hours for the same money. So they regard that as effectively a pay cut

:25:04. > :25:07.and undermine Dean -- undermining their value. We have a group of

:25:08. > :25:13.independent pay review bodies who have been in place for the last 45

:25:14. > :25:16.years. A year ago, all of us, the junior doctors, ask, the Department

:25:17. > :25:19.of Health, employers, everyone had a chance to make a contribution to

:25:20. > :25:25.that independent pay review body and they looked at all of the evidence,

:25:26. > :25:28.and what they came back with, they said the current contract is out of

:25:29. > :25:35.line with every other sector in the UK economy. We are the only people

:25:36. > :25:40.who are defining weekend and night working in as broad a set of hours

:25:41. > :25:45.as we currently are. So their conclusion was that the hours that

:25:46. > :25:50.are defined as not normal do need to change in order for the NHS to be in

:25:51. > :25:54.line with the rest of the economy. That sounds like he'll is being dug

:25:55. > :26:00.in on that side. Junior doctors have made clear they will walk out, they

:26:01. > :26:05.are digging their heels in too. How can there be any compromise? We all

:26:06. > :26:09.need to come around the negotiating table and agree. Will it need more

:26:10. > :26:13.money in the end? The government has made it clear that particularly in

:26:14. > :26:23.this period of austerity, and we do elect governments to make decisions

:26:24. > :26:26.such as how much do we want to spend on the National Health Service, the

:26:27. > :26:28.government has made it clear there is no more money and that

:26:29. > :26:31.effectively with you to come around the negotiating table, as I said, we

:26:32. > :26:33.are not on one side or the other, we are very clear that we must value

:26:34. > :26:37.the contribution junior doctors make. Equally, we are very clear

:26:38. > :26:41.that contracts do need to be modernised, because patients deserve

:26:42. > :26:48.a 24 hours a day, seven days a week service. How careful a line needs to

:26:49. > :26:52.be trodden when you are relying on how much the health service does

:26:53. > :26:59.rely on junior doctors, they make up half the medical workforce. When you

:27:00. > :27:04.look at a statistic that says just under half of junior doctors once

:27:05. > :27:08.they have completed their initial run of training in the NHS don't

:27:09. > :27:12.carry on with that to become a GP or pursue a specialism, so they are

:27:13. > :27:19.being lost at that stage. And clearly that is a huge concern. Is

:27:20. > :27:22.that morale? When you talk to junior doctors and hospital chief

:27:23. > :27:27.executives, they recognised the pay terms and conditions are one part of

:27:28. > :27:30.the process, but there was no doubt our National Health Service with an

:27:31. > :27:34.ageing population is coming under increasing pressure, and certainly I

:27:35. > :27:40.have the privilege of visiting already this year three or four

:27:41. > :27:43.hospitals, and my senses they are under increasing pressure, so the

:27:44. > :27:49.workforce is under pressure as well, and therefore it is ready important

:27:50. > :27:52.that we recognise the contribution junior doctors make, that we get the

:27:53. > :27:57.right terms and conditions, but we also look at other things. We asked

:27:58. > :28:02.our junior doctors to work at night. One of the things they say to us as

:28:03. > :28:05.there are no longer the catering services to get healthy nutritious

:28:06. > :28:08.foods at hospital at night. That is issues like that that are really

:28:09. > :28:12.important, however that mustn't cover up the fact that just as every

:28:13. > :28:18.other part of our national economy has changed contract to provide this

:28:19. > :28:21.24 hours a day, seven days a week service, we will need to change

:28:22. > :28:25.junior doctors contracts. We just need to do it in a way that is

:28:26. > :28:28.equitable and fair. Chris, thank you.

:28:29. > :28:32.Our political guru Norman Smith is in Westminster.

:28:33. > :28:40.We have had one strike, two more in the offing. What are the prospects

:28:41. > :28:45.for negotiations going forward? Not hugely helpful, I have to say. The

:28:46. > :28:51.BMA are seemingly determined to press ahead with the strikes they

:28:52. > :28:54.don't get any sort of deal. Just talking to poke around Mr Hunt this

:28:55. > :28:58.morning, they are making it very clear that come what may Mr Hunt is

:28:59. > :29:02.going to introduce these new contracts. It can be he hopes by

:29:03. > :29:06.agreement but if it is not by agreement then I am being told he

:29:07. > :29:12.will impose them and the way it would work is that when the new

:29:13. > :29:15.junior doctors came on stream, I think they start in August, they

:29:16. > :29:20.would automatically begin on these new contracts with weekend working

:29:21. > :29:24.and the evening hours working, and then the existing 50,000 or so

:29:25. > :29:28.junior doctors, the new contracts would be sort of rolled out among

:29:29. > :29:32.them as they move on from different training posts to different levels

:29:33. > :29:33.of seniority, because each time they do that apparently, they get a

:29:34. > :29:37.of seniority, because each time they set of terms and conditions, so they

:29:38. > :29:42.would then have the new contract imposed upon them then. Which

:29:43. > :29:45.bluntly means that unless the BMA reach some sort of deal, Mr Hunt

:29:46. > :29:49.will impose these contracts, and they could be in place, rolled out,

:29:50. > :29:53.introduced by the middle of next year. The second thing is I get the

:29:54. > :29:57.sense that the pressure is really being cranked up on the BMA now,

:29:58. > :30:01.because we have had warnings from some NHS bosses today that if they

:30:02. > :30:06.go ahead with this planned all-out strike in February, as we are

:30:07. > :30:11.hearing, patient safety could be compromised, translated to English,

:30:12. > :30:15.lives could be lost. Now you can imagine the sort of pressure that

:30:16. > :30:19.will be heaped on the British Medical Association to back off from

:30:20. > :30:24.going ahead with that. So I get the real sense it is hardball time here

:30:25. > :30:31.and the government is looking the BMA in the eye and saying, you have

:30:32. > :30:34.got to back down here. Although this morning, Jeremy Hunt, as he left for

:30:35. > :30:39.work, a little bit more forthcoming than he was yesterday, he was not

:30:40. > :30:40.terribly communicative, but against resting he thought the strikes were

:30:41. > :30:49.completely unnecessary. What is next for your negotiations

:30:50. > :30:53.with junior doctors? I hope they succeed, we hope to settle this but

:30:54. > :30:55.it was a very unnecessary strike. What will you do to make sure there

:30:56. > :31:09.is not another strike? Glad to see he has a helmet on! One

:31:10. > :31:13.other thing which is really making this strike harder to resolve is the

:31:14. > :31:18.fact that it is becoming, it seems to me, increasingly political. When

:31:19. > :31:21.we were at Saint Thomas's, John McDonell, the shadow chancellor,

:31:22. > :31:28.joined us as a and straighten that Labour is the junior doctors. Let me

:31:29. > :31:36.whistle of Jeremy Corbyn's Facebook page. If we just scroll down a bit,

:31:37. > :31:41.there is an interesting post here from Jeremy Corbyn yesterday and the

:31:42. > :31:46.language is interesting. He says, "No NHS worker takes like to leave

:31:47. > :31:49.the decision to strike but the blame must be laid at the door of this

:31:50. > :31:55.government of the way it is treated doctors and now seeks to smear them

:31:56. > :31:57.in the press." Why that makes it harder is that this is a dispute

:31:58. > :32:03.which is already incredibly difficult to resolve. It has been

:32:04. > :32:06.going on for years. They have been negotiating for months. They have

:32:07. > :32:09.been at ACAS for weeks. Perhaps the last thing you need is for political

:32:10. > :32:14.lines to be drawn up and that seems to be what is now happening with

:32:15. > :32:18.Labour very firmly allying themselves... It is the first time I

:32:19. > :32:23.think the Labour Party has publicly allied themselves with a strike.

:32:24. > :32:27.Since I can remember, really. It is a marked shift under the corporate

:32:28. > :32:31.leadership. They are saying, we are with the junior doctors, we are on

:32:32. > :32:34.their side. My guess is that that is going to make it even harder to get

:32:35. > :32:35.some sort of resolution of this dispute.

:32:36. > :32:39.Thank you, Norman. Coming up, we meet the man

:32:40. > :32:42.who claims to have fathered up to 800 children

:32:43. > :32:50.through sperm donation. Plus, the fertility regulator

:32:51. > :32:53.who say they have safety concerns. Let us know your thoughts. That is

:32:54. > :33:00.coming up a little later. In Washington last night,

:33:01. > :33:04.President Obama delivered his final State of the Union address,

:33:05. > :33:07.setting out the agenda for his last year

:33:08. > :33:11.in the White House. The speech, which was to a joint

:33:12. > :33:14.session of Congress, of the themes which President Obama

:33:15. > :33:17.will shape his presidential legacy. One empty chair was left in the room

:33:18. > :33:21.to represent those who have been The President championed his record

:33:22. > :33:31.on the country's finances, saying the US has the strongest,

:33:32. > :33:34.most durable economy in the world. More than 14 million new jobs,

:33:35. > :33:37.the strongest two years of job growth since the 1990s,

:33:38. > :33:39.an unemployment rate cut in half. Our auto industry just

:33:40. > :33:42.had its best year ever. That's just part

:33:43. > :33:49.of a manufacturing surge that's created nearly 900,000 new jobs

:33:50. > :33:52.in the past six years. And we've done all this

:33:53. > :33:54.while cutting our deficits Mr Obama sought to reassure

:33:55. > :34:03.Americans about their place He vowed to continue

:34:04. > :34:08.targeting terrorist groups, tackling climate change -

:34:09. > :34:10.and launching a new drive The President also hit back

:34:11. > :34:14.against the negative tone He didn't mention Donald Trump

:34:15. > :34:20.by name, but he condemned his call When politicians insult Muslims,

:34:21. > :34:32.whether abroad or our fellow citizens, when a mosque

:34:33. > :34:40.is vandalised, or a kid is called It diminishes us in

:34:41. > :34:58.the eyes of the world. It makes it harder

:34:59. > :35:02.to achieve our goals. The President also re-issued his

:35:03. > :35:10.promise over the controversial I will keep working to shut down

:35:11. > :35:16.the prison at Guantanamo. It is expensive, it is unnecessary

:35:17. > :35:20.and it only serves as a recruitment And that's why we need

:35:21. > :35:32.to reject any politics - any politics - that targets people

:35:33. > :35:40.because of race or religion. And he addressed the threat posed

:35:41. > :35:52.by so-called Islamic State. As we focus on destroying Isil,

:35:53. > :35:55.over-the-top claims that this is World War III just

:35:56. > :36:01.play into their hands. Masses of fighters on the back

:36:02. > :36:09.of pick-up trucks, twisted souls plotting in apartments or garages -

:36:10. > :36:12.they pose an enormous But they do not threaten

:36:13. > :36:19.our national existence. And we sure don't need to push away

:36:20. > :36:22.vital allies in this fight by echoing the lie that Isil

:36:23. > :36:25.is somehow representative of one We just need to call

:36:26. > :36:38.them what they are - killers and fanatics

:36:39. > :36:40.who have to be rooted out, Republicans reacted to the speech

:36:41. > :36:49.by saying Mr Obama's record has often fallen short

:36:50. > :36:59.of his soaring speeches. The president is nearing the end of

:37:00. > :37:02.his eight years in office. In a year's time, there will be

:37:03. > :37:05.a new President and a newly elected So, for President Obama,

:37:06. > :37:09.the months ahead are key in determining how he

:37:10. > :37:10.goes down in history. Two US Navy patrol boats -

:37:11. > :37:14.with a total of ten sailors on board - have been seized by Iran

:37:15. > :37:16.in the Persian Gulf. US officials say the boats

:37:17. > :37:19.were on a training mission between Kuwait and Bahrain

:37:20. > :37:21.when one of them developed mechanical problems and drifted

:37:22. > :37:22.into Iranian waters. Washington says the Secretary

:37:23. > :37:24.of State, John Kerry, has been assured that the crew

:37:25. > :37:28.will be returned promptly. With me now is our BBC

:37:29. > :37:42.Persian correspondent Just talk us through what has

:37:43. > :37:45.happened here. It seems that the Iranians also confirmed the American

:37:46. > :37:51.version of this story. The commander of around's revolutionary naval

:37:52. > :37:56.forces just said that there seems to be a mechanical problem in the

:37:57. > :38:02.navigation system of one of the votes and he said that things will

:38:03. > :38:05.probably be resolved very soon but there are contradictory reports as

:38:06. > :38:09.well. Although the commander of the naval forces has said this, the

:38:10. > :38:15.spokesperson of around's Revolutionary guard said that we

:38:16. > :38:18.have to wait and it is too early to say whether they are going to be

:38:19. > :38:21.released soon or not. Mixed messages. What are the indications

:38:22. > :38:25.on the likelihood of how quickly this can be sorted? It is difficult

:38:26. > :38:28.to say when it will be sorted but I'm sure that the Iranians

:38:29. > :38:33.government is keen to get it sorted very soon because these are very

:38:34. > :38:37.sensitive days for Iran. The Iranian nuclear deal is going to be

:38:38. > :38:41.implemented probably in the next week, which has taken two years for

:38:42. > :38:45.the Iranians and the Americans to reach, so I think this is not

:38:46. > :38:50.something any of the sites would like to see as a problem between the

:38:51. > :38:54.two countries. And we have to remember that where these sailors

:38:55. > :38:59.were as between Iran and Saudi Arabia and those are very tense

:39:00. > :39:04.meetings and a lot is going on there. There are many countries that

:39:05. > :39:07.are navigating in those waters, so because of these problems to Iran

:39:08. > :39:12.and Saudi Arabia, Iran is also more sensitive. People might remember the

:39:13. > :39:17.Royal Navy being caught up in something similar several years ago.

:39:18. > :39:20.I think it was 2007. That went on for nearly two weeks. Are there any

:39:21. > :39:25.similarities or does this look different? I think it looks

:39:26. > :39:31.different because they haven't accused anyone of trying to do

:39:32. > :39:34.anything wrong. They seem to have agreed that there was a genuine

:39:35. > :39:40.mechanical problem. Back then, it seemed that the British sailors were

:39:41. > :39:45.in the water That were disputed between Iran and Iraq. It is a very

:39:46. > :39:49.narrow piece of water And there are a number of countries that have

:39:50. > :39:52.claims on those waters and it is very difficult and we will see more

:39:53. > :39:55.of these disputes in future, so this is not the end of it, but it seems

:39:56. > :40:00.that this time it will be resolved sooner. And the wider political

:40:01. > :40:07.picture will obviously come into play, as well, you would assume?

:40:08. > :40:11.Exactly, because the Prime Minister has spoken with John Kerry of the

:40:12. > :40:18.latest is and they are very keen but we have to remember that Foreign

:40:19. > :40:22.Minister Zarif is not the only decision make and it is not clear

:40:23. > :40:26.how much influence he has over the Revolutionary guard. I'm sure he

:40:27. > :40:29.will try his best but at the end of the day, he is not the sole

:40:30. > :40:34.decision-making in the country. Thank you very much for updating us.

:40:35. > :40:37.We speak to a victim of sexual assault who claims

:40:38. > :40:40.she was let down by the criminal justice system.

:40:41. > :40:47.Keep your thoughts coming in. We've been getting lots of your comments

:40:48. > :40:52.on junior doctors striking and also lots of you getting in touch on the

:40:53. > :40:56.sperm donor, who we saw are Paul Dunne earlier. We will be talking to

:40:57. > :41:00.him after 10am so get in touch if you have any more thoughts on that.

:41:01. > :41:04.He is saying he has fathered 800 children through sperm donation.

:41:05. > :41:08.We will just quickly run through some of the e-mails we've had on the

:41:09. > :41:14.Dr Strike yesterday. It ended at 8am. Tom is a nurse and says he sees

:41:15. > :41:18.junior doctors working 70 hours a week and in real terms getting less

:41:19. > :41:21.than the minimum wage. Tahrir Square is it was an interesting interview

:41:22. > :41:28.but no money was available for the NHS but there was money available

:41:29. > :41:33.for MPs. Another viewer asks how a Saturday is a normal day and whether

:41:34. > :41:39.MPs classify Saturday as normal. Ace heart on Twitter wants to see their

:41:40. > :41:43.MP on Sunday - any chance of that? Another viewer on Twitter says other

:41:44. > :41:48.parts of the economy are not there to keep us alive. Doctors need to be

:41:49. > :41:51.paid well and not overworked. Keep your thoughts coming in on that and

:41:52. > :41:53.everything else we're talking about. Now let's catch up with the weather.

:41:54. > :42:00.Matt is here. Let's return to one of our hot

:42:01. > :42:06.topics weather-wise, El Nino. It has been helping to break records across

:42:07. > :42:10.the world. The latest record to be broken all leads into this area of

:42:11. > :42:17.cloud. It is this big white mass here. This is Harry Kane parley.

:42:18. > :42:21.That is out in the central Pacific. What is significant about it is it

:42:22. > :42:25.is the earliest recorded hurricane in this part of the world and

:42:26. > :42:29.records go back some 66 years. It just goes to show how much warmth,

:42:30. > :42:33.how much energy is in the Pacific at the moment because you need all that

:42:34. > :42:41.warmth and energy for her against a form. It will stay over open waters

:42:42. > :42:46.but whilst El Nino has peaked, we expect further records to be broken

:42:47. > :42:49.over the coming months. When does the hurricane season

:42:50. > :42:54.start? It doesn't start until June.

:42:55. > :42:58.That's what I thought. I thought I must be wrong.

:42:59. > :43:03.Prior to this one, in 1994, one formed on the 30th of January that

:43:04. > :43:07.this was certainly unusual, so early in the season. El Nino may be

:43:08. > :43:10.weakening now but it could have an impact on our weather later in the

:43:11. > :43:14.winter. There was a bit of a sting to the tale as far as the UK weather

:43:15. > :43:18.is concerned. This morning it is quite chilly. Colder weather on the

:43:19. > :43:21.way later this week, particularly by night, as I will mention, but the

:43:22. > :43:26.moment there was a chill in the air and most of us are starting with des

:43:27. > :43:35.Dry. It is changing in the West. Our next batch of cloud is on the way.

:43:36. > :43:38.The cloud will take over with outbreaks of rain, some sleet and

:43:39. > :43:43.hill snow gradually working East. Persistent rain and snow across

:43:44. > :43:46.parts of Northern Shetland but for the rest of north-eastern Scotland

:43:47. > :43:50.down through northern England, a fine day in store, providing you've

:43:51. > :43:53.wrapped up against the chill. Into the afternoon, showers are pushing

:43:54. > :43:57.in towards the south-west of England and the could be the odd rumble of

:43:58. > :44:00.thunder. Over the high ground of Wales, some sleet and snow, as we

:44:01. > :44:04.see in the west of the Pennines and across the Cumbrian fells. Through

:44:05. > :44:07.much of the East Midlands, across much of eastern England and for much

:44:08. > :44:12.of the north of mainland Scotland, it will be dry. North-west England

:44:13. > :44:16.and south-west Scotland, outbreaks of rain and snow. That uses for

:44:17. > :44:20.Northern Ireland but will be there for much of the day. Essentially a

:44:21. > :44:26.cloudy one for you. The system gives us a few concerns and particularly

:44:27. > :44:29.to south-east Scotland. There is a Met Office Amber be prepared with

:44:30. > :44:33.one in place for further disruption. We could see up to ten centimetres.

:44:34. > :44:37.As the low-pressure dressed sourpuss, it is going to bring rain,

:44:38. > :44:43.sleet and snow to just about anywhere. Clearing skies across

:44:44. > :44:48.Scotland and Northern Ireland later leading to a frost, down to minus

:44:49. > :44:51.six or seven. Icy conditions. For tomorrow morning's rush hour, it

:44:52. > :44:56.could be quite difficult to stop icy conditions across the north and west

:44:57. > :45:02.and a mixture of rain, sleet, snow and gale force winds. They could be

:45:03. > :45:07.flakes of snow across the higher ground. Any covering of snow mainly

:45:08. > :45:12.towards the high ground further north. It stays quite wet and windy

:45:13. > :45:16.across eastern England for the afternoon. A few wintry flurries

:45:17. > :45:19.into the West later but otherwise bright afternoon with some sunshine

:45:20. > :45:25.but it is going to feel cold and the wind will make it feel even colder

:45:26. > :45:29.still. It could feel more like minus one to minus three across some parts

:45:30. > :45:34.the country. The wind still with us on Friday. Only a few showers out in

:45:35. > :45:37.the West. Two parts of the north west Midlands, North West England

:45:38. > :45:43.and North Wales, most will have a dry and sunny Friday. For the end of

:45:44. > :45:46.the week, lots more sunshine and dry weather with just a few wintry

:45:47. > :45:51.showers towards the east but it is going to feel cold, especially so by

:45:52. > :45:55.night, where parts of Scotland could drop as low as minus 15.

:45:56. > :45:58.Hello it's Wednesday, it's ten And o'clock

:45:59. > :46:01.I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria, welcome to the programme if you've

:46:02. > :46:05.The man who claims to have fathered up to 800 children

:46:06. > :46:09.It's legal but unlicensed and there are concerns that some

:46:10. > :46:17.women could be putting their health at risk.

:46:18. > :46:25.room service! Sperm donors help more people than regulated sperm

:46:26. > :46:26.donation. victims of crime aren't

:46:27. > :46:29.being supported enough - we'll ask if faith is being lost

:46:30. > :46:33.in our justice system as a result. And we'll hear from the lucky couple

:46:34. > :46:36.from the Scottish borders who have scooped half of Saturday's

:46:37. > :46:38.record lottery win - President Obama delivers his final

:46:39. > :46:54.state of the union address - strongly defending his legacy

:46:55. > :46:56.and hailing America's place But he also expresses regret that

:46:57. > :47:11.politics in the US has become more Iran says the United States has

:47:12. > :47:15.apologised after ten American sailors were arrested for entering

:47:16. > :47:17.Iranian waters. Two US Navy patrol boats were seized by Iran in the

:47:18. > :47:22.goal. -- in the Gulf. A suicide bomber in Pakistan

:47:23. > :47:25.kills at least 15 people Polio workers have been the target

:47:26. > :47:28.of many deadly attacks by Islamist militants opposed

:47:29. > :47:33.to the vaccination programmes. Most of those killed were police

:47:34. > :47:38.officers guarding the centre. A strike by junior doctors

:47:39. > :47:41.in England comes to an end - now there are fresh attempts

:47:42. > :47:43.to avert another one About three-and-a-half thousand

:47:44. > :47:48.operations were cancelled Millions of people in England

:47:49. > :47:54.and Wales are paying too much for their water supply

:47:55. > :47:56.because of poor industry regulation, They say many people would be

:47:57. > :48:00."appalled" to learn their water A toddler found walking to nursery

:48:01. > :48:07.alone has led police to the body The two-year-old girl was discovered

:48:08. > :48:10.by a police community support officer who was driving

:48:11. > :48:16.with his wife. Nasa releases more details about

:48:17. > :48:23.Tim Peake's upcoming spacewalk. The astronaut is due to leave

:48:24. > :48:25.the International Space Station on Friday to replace

:48:26. > :48:28.a failed power unit. It'll be the first time a British

:48:29. > :48:31.astronaut has carried out Let's catch up with all the sport

:48:32. > :48:36.now and join Ore and significant news relating to the Fifa Secretary

:48:37. > :48:45.General Jerome Valcke this yes, some breaking news in the last

:48:46. > :48:50.half an hour, the fair has this morning sacked its general secretary

:48:51. > :48:54.Jerome Valcke, one of the most powerful figures of the game. The

:48:55. > :48:57.ethics committee had opened formal proceedings against him last week

:48:58. > :49:05.relating to World Cup ticket sales. He had already been suspended. He

:49:06. > :49:14.denies any wrongdoing. Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal has

:49:15. > :49:21.said his side's 3-3 photo draw -- 3-3 photo draw against Newcastle

:49:22. > :49:25.United felt like a defeat. World athletics governing body the IAAF

:49:26. > :49:30.feared Russian doping was so out of control that athletes could have

:49:31. > :49:34.died, six years before the country was banned from international from

:49:35. > :49:39.edition. Leaked documents say that the IAAF warned the Russian

:49:40. > :49:43.Federation that the blood levels of their athlete were putting their own

:49:44. > :49:46.lives in danger. It has been reported Danny Cipriani is among the

:49:47. > :49:50.players set to miss out on a place of the first England rugby squad to

:49:51. > :49:55.be named by the new head coach, Eddie Jones, later today. But there

:49:56. > :49:58.will be no announcement on Jones's captain just yet. We will bring you

:49:59. > :50:05.a full round-up in about half an hour. Let me bring you some breaking

:50:06. > :50:09.news. We are hearing from Iranian state television it is reporting

:50:10. > :50:14.that Iran's Revolutionary guards has confirmed the ten American sailors

:50:15. > :50:18.arrested for entering Iran's territorial waters have been freed.

:50:19. > :50:23.It comes shortly after Iran said it received an apology from the United

:50:24. > :50:24.States. So it sounds like those sailors have been freed. We will

:50:25. > :50:26.check it out and keep you updated. Thank you for joining us this

:50:27. > :50:29.morning, welcome to the programme if you've just joined us,

:50:30. > :50:32.we're on BBC Two and the BBC Your contributions are really

:50:33. > :50:36.welcome through the programme - texts will be charged

:50:37. > :50:38.at the standard rate. And of course you can watch

:50:39. > :50:40.the programme online wherever you are - via the bbc news app

:50:41. > :50:43.or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria and you can also subscribe

:50:44. > :50:46.to all our features on the news app, by going to add topics and searching

:50:47. > :50:50.'Victoria Derbyshire' This morning - we've heard

:50:51. > :50:53.from the British man who claims to have fathered up to 800 children

:50:54. > :50:58.through sperm donation. 41-year-old Simon Watson

:50:59. > :51:00.is an online sperm donor - it's cheap, easy and

:51:01. > :51:02.completely unregulated. Private licensed clinics cost

:51:03. > :51:04.between ?500 and ?1,000 for each Simon Watson charges

:51:05. > :51:17.?50 for his services - I would like to get the world record

:51:18. > :51:25.ever, make sure no one is going to break it,

:51:26. > :51:27.get as many as possible. I reckon I've got

:51:28. > :51:31.about 800 or so so far. Within about four years,

:51:32. > :51:34.I would like to crack a thousand, Yes, I just picked up

:51:35. > :51:45.the results from the hospital. I get tested every

:51:46. > :51:47.three months to show I always post a copy

:51:48. > :51:51.on the Internet so My name is Simon Watson

:51:52. > :52:12.and I am a sperm donor. If you go to a fertility

:52:13. > :52:14.clinic, there are loads of hurdles you have

:52:15. > :52:16.got to go through. They make people sit

:52:17. > :52:18.through counselling sessions and they make you go through huge

:52:19. > :52:21.amounts of tests and then charge Realistically, if you have

:52:22. > :52:25.got a private donor, you can just go and see them,

:52:26. > :52:28.meet them somewhere, get what you want,

:52:29. > :52:30.go and that is it. I charge them ?50 and that is it for

:52:31. > :52:50.the magic potion pot. And then I give them a syringe

:52:51. > :53:03.with the pot and leave them to it. Most of the people I help out tend

:53:04. > :53:07.to be from Facebook. When people join the site,

:53:08. > :53:09.I see their name and I send them a message explaining

:53:10. > :53:17.about the service I provide. It is like artificial insemination

:53:18. > :53:20.only, and I think they like the fact that I do that and I'm not

:53:21. > :53:24.going to try and get something funny Because I charge people

:53:25. > :53:44.for my service, there are other people who would be happy to provide

:53:45. > :53:47.the service with no charge, but they want a bit of fun

:53:48. > :53:50.out of the customers. Some ladies are

:53:51. > :53:56.looking for that too. Some ladies are lady couples,

:53:57. > :53:58.like the ones I met today. I would not know who

:53:59. > :54:17.they were unless they I don't plan to stop. I would like

:54:18. > :54:21.to get the world record ever, make sure no one is going to break it,

:54:22. > :54:27.get as many as possible. Usually one week pops out. I reckon I have about

:54:28. > :54:30.800 so far. Within about four years I would like to crack a thousand.

:54:31. > :54:33.You can watch - and share - the full version of that film

:54:34. > :54:35.via the programme page - bbc.co.uk/victoria

:54:36. > :54:37.The independent regulator of the UK fertility industry -

:54:38. > :54:39.the HFEA - is warning about the dangers of buying

:54:40. > :54:51.They say it is better to go to a licensed clinic for safety

:54:52. > :54:52.reasons and for clarity over legal parenthood.

:54:53. > :54:54.So what are the risks of buying online?

:54:55. > :54:57.We can speak to Simon Watson now - along with Laura Witjens -

:54:58. > :55:00.the Chief Executive of the National Gamete Donation Trust

:55:01. > :55:02.and Peter Thompson, who is Chief Executive of the HFEA,

:55:03. > :55:05.the independent regulator of the UK fertility industry.

:55:06. > :55:11.Thank you all very much for coming in. Simon, first of all, we have

:55:12. > :55:16.seen your report, you reckon you have fathered 800 children? It is

:55:17. > :55:21.difficult to tell the numbers really, but it is going to be

:55:22. > :55:25.somewhere around there. How have you arrived at that figure? I have been

:55:26. > :55:28.doing this the 70 years now, about 16. If you were to get the

:55:29. > :55:34.calculator thing that doesn't work out. That as a baby a week. That is

:55:35. > :55:40.what I reckon I am pumping out, really. Do you record all the

:55:41. > :55:43.babies? I always write down who I have helped out, and when, so I have

:55:44. > :55:47.always done that but a lot of people choose to be anonymous, and might

:55:48. > :55:51.just come and say their name is such and such and meet me at a certain

:55:52. > :55:56.hotel and disappear. Do you record every time a baby is born? When I

:55:57. > :56:00.hear about them, then I do, but a lot of times what I want to do, like

:56:01. > :56:06.my boy, when people start contacting me later on, because you never know,

:56:07. > :56:10.as time goes on, people say I had a kid with you three years ago, so I

:56:11. > :56:16.don't always hear straightaway. So 800 is a guess, it could be more or

:56:17. > :56:22.less? I wet know for another 15 years or so by the time children

:56:23. > :56:26.have started coming through, and coming-of-age, and saying they might

:56:27. > :56:30.be wanting to go on the family tree. Is it a numbers game for you? I

:56:31. > :56:36.wouldn't mind getting the world record, to say the least. Why? It is

:56:37. > :56:39.just one of those things, I always wanted to have more than two

:56:40. > :56:43.children, that is why I started doing it back in 99, but it sort of

:56:44. > :56:47.snowballed when the internet started. Now it is going crazy with

:56:48. > :56:53.people asking me from all over the place. You say it is just one of

:56:54. > :56:56.these things, these are living, breathing children out there, and

:56:57. > :57:02.you are dad to all of them. But at least they know I wanted them. I

:57:03. > :57:07.will not poke my nose in where it is not wanted but they were to talk to

:57:08. > :57:11.me, they can. I would organise big barbecue parties all over the place,

:57:12. > :57:14.around country, do one in Derbyshire, one imports must. When

:57:15. > :57:20.you say you wanted them, you are the father to them -- one in Portsmouth.

:57:21. > :57:24.But you have no responsibility to them. But at least they know I am

:57:25. > :57:27.not anonymous, and if they want to know who their dad is, I can

:57:28. > :57:32.organise meetings, and it would be quite informal, a big barbecue, and

:57:33. > :57:35.everyone will see their brothers and sisters, so it won't be

:57:36. > :57:40.uncomfortable in that way. Do you think it is responsible to be

:57:41. > :57:43.fathering so many children? Yes, I think so, because there is nothing

:57:44. > :57:47.wrong with me, so it might as be someone who does not have any

:57:48. > :57:50.genetic faults or hereditary diseases, and someone you will be to

:57:51. > :57:54.get hold of in future if you want have more children. Some donors in

:57:55. > :57:59.the past so they are not donating any more. That will never happen to

:58:00. > :58:03.be. You are not obliged to have screening because you are

:58:04. > :58:09.unlicensed. I get tested every three to six months. And I have all the

:58:10. > :58:15.records. What do you get tested for? Aids, gonorrhoea, HIV antibody one

:58:16. > :58:21.and two, I don't really understand it, gonorrhoea, syphilis, chlamydia,

:58:22. > :58:25.what's the other one, hepatitis B and hepatitis C. The good thing is

:58:26. > :58:30.they can listen back, if people wanted to, to all the test results

:58:31. > :58:34.back to the beginning of January 2000 nine. To know I had been

:58:35. > :58:37.cleaned all the way back. That is when the test started on the

:58:38. > :58:41.telephone results hotline. So they can listen to that all the way back

:58:42. > :58:45.if they want, so they know I have been clean continually. So a full

:58:46. > :58:51.record on sexually transmitted diseases. What about your genetic

:58:52. > :58:55.make-up, have you had genetic screening? I know I haven't got the

:58:56. > :59:02.cystic fibrosis gene. I had a test before. One quarter of the British

:59:03. > :59:07.population have that. It is not a problem unless both people have it.

:59:08. > :59:14.What about a screening for other genetic diseases? I haven't got any

:59:15. > :59:18.thing nasty at all. I used to work at a sperm bank years ago, and they

:59:19. > :59:23.got me tested for the things that they test for, I can't run the names

:59:24. > :59:26.of them. Can you guarantee to a woman coming to you that you have no

:59:27. > :59:30.genetic diseases that you don't know of, because obviously there are 800

:59:31. > :59:36.children out there, you reckon, they could be carrying genetic disease

:59:37. > :59:40.are known to you. I was good enough for a sperm bank, if summary said

:59:41. > :59:46.could you do a test, I would let the results go back to their house, so I

:59:47. > :59:52.were to get me tested if you want. I would not have a problem with

:59:53. > :59:55.someone doing the test on me. I am quite open about it. We talked about

:59:56. > :00:00.the lack of regulation around the way you do it and that you are very

:00:01. > :00:04.happy to hear from any of the children who you have fathered, in

:00:05. > :00:07.this way. Do you worry about the mothers coming on your door, because

:00:08. > :00:13.there is nothing to stop any of them coming to you and making a financial

:00:14. > :00:20.claim? But then again, I have had two ex-wives who have not done too

:00:21. > :00:24.badly me. But 800? They would have to have a good share out! But they

:00:25. > :00:29.have the right to do it. That is the problem. It is more of a risk if

:00:30. > :00:34.someone wants to start being a private donor and had a couple of

:00:35. > :00:38.kids here and there, they would be an easier target. They could get

:00:39. > :00:41.their 30% taken straight out of the bank account. In my case, it would

:00:42. > :00:45.be more difficult calving up 800 ways. It would be a bit of a

:00:46. > :00:50.pittance really. It isn't just in the way you talk about the numbers,

:00:51. > :00:54.saying usually one baby pops out every week. You would like to crack

:00:55. > :01:02.a thousand. We saw you beating your chest in the report earlier. A joke,

:01:03. > :01:05.really. Is it some sort of match thing? I Muyters will keep going, I

:01:06. > :01:08.don't what is wrong with it. If it was an animal, we would say that

:01:09. > :01:11.animal is quite successful, they have managed to have a lot of

:01:12. > :01:15.children but people don't really see it in that way. They say we are

:01:16. > :01:18.quite happy to have one, two, three children, that's it. But I think

:01:19. > :01:21.there is nothing wrong with having them all over the place, but some

:01:22. > :01:26.people say is it dangerous to have so many, the risk of them into

:01:27. > :01:31.breeding? There are 70 million people in England, and the last ten

:01:32. > :01:35.people I helped out last year, out of the last 14, ten of them were

:01:36. > :01:39.from outside England, so it is spread out anyway.

:01:40. > :01:45.But it is a real question, the risk of half siblings meeting each other

:01:46. > :01:51.down the line and not having a clue. But to give you an example, out

:01:52. > :01:53.of... Say 90% of the couples I help our lesbian couples, they are pretty

:01:54. > :02:01.much all going to tell the children who I am but in a clinic, I think

:02:02. > :02:06.only about 65% of people helped in clinics don't tell the children that

:02:07. > :02:09.they are even donor conceived. So the other way of looking at it is

:02:10. > :02:13.this - if they had two fields to walk across and one had 800 minds

:02:14. > :02:16.and you knew where they were and the other one had two hidden mines,

:02:17. > :02:22.which one would you cross? The way I look at it is, the child has done a

:02:23. > :02:27.family tree and later on as people want to get added to it, we can pop

:02:28. > :02:31.them on it. That's a massive task of stock we can have two McRae family

:02:32. > :02:35.trees on the go, one that people can see with online access code, and

:02:36. > :02:39.another one just for ourselves, which will also have the

:02:40. > :02:43.heterosexual couples who don't want to go public, so I can just keep

:02:44. > :02:48.that, so no one is ever going to see that, except me and my son and my

:02:49. > :02:55.daughters. Let's bring in Peter and Laura, Peter Thompson, how do you

:02:56. > :02:58.see what Simon is doing? I think viewers will judge Simon's

:02:59. > :03:04.motivations. I would like to say to anyone who's thinking about a donor

:03:05. > :03:08.or using donated sperm, think about three things - protection, peace of

:03:09. > :03:12.mind and preparation and care. If you use a licensed clinic, you can

:03:13. > :03:16.be assured that the sperm that is donated has been screened for the

:03:17. > :03:20.kind of diseases that Simon is talking about. If you use a licensed

:03:21. > :03:24.clinic, you can have peace of mind over the legal uncertainties

:03:25. > :03:29.involved. As Simon acknowledge, these are private arrangements. It

:03:30. > :03:32.is quite possible he could be financially liable, whether or not

:03:33. > :03:37.he is the legal father of the child, and if you use a licensed clinic,

:03:38. > :03:41.that clinic will prepare both the patients and the donors for what's

:03:42. > :03:46.involved. This is a serious matter. It's not a numbers game and clinics

:03:47. > :03:53.will talk through the nature of commitment that donation involves.

:03:54. > :03:59.These days, anonymity has gone so at the age of 18, a child can find out

:04:00. > :04:03.certain information about the person who was their donor. This is a

:04:04. > :04:12.serious matter and I think what we've seen today is frankly a

:04:13. > :04:17.trivialising of children, donations and families. I don't even know

:04:18. > :04:23.where to start how wrong this is an very different levels. The elephant

:04:24. > :04:27.in the room are the children and the sector we work in, creating

:04:28. > :04:30.families, is full of lovey-dovey language about helping, archery

:04:31. > :04:36.stick, and we have pictures of lovely looking babies and open sea

:04:37. > :04:44.strips but if we strip it down to its bare... We have a man who, for

:04:45. > :04:47.whatever reason, feels that he has superior genes, because he doesn't

:04:48. > :04:52.feel his jeans are average otherwise he wouldn't be doing this, are worth

:04:53. > :04:56.spreading across the planet without any consideration of the children,

:04:57. > :05:03.so it isn't just about who they unintentionally married. We have

:05:04. > :05:06.enough social evidence and data to know that people struggle with

:05:07. > :05:11.knowing that they have half siblings. Ten is already a huge

:05:12. > :05:14.number and to have hundreds? I think you are immensely naive to think

:05:15. > :05:19.that they will be having lovely barbecues. The women who allow these

:05:20. > :05:24.practices, ultimately, are faced with two choices. Either they tell

:05:25. > :05:30.that Simon is the father and they burden their children with knowing

:05:31. > :05:34.that they have 800 or 900,000 half siblings... It's not a matter of

:05:35. > :05:37.will I marry them? You have somebody in a train who has the same distinct

:05:38. > :05:43.features and you think, could that be one of them? Or you don't burden

:05:44. > :05:46.your child with knowing they have 800, 900 siblings, and they will

:05:47. > :05:51.never know who their genetic father is, and that's the other thing. He

:05:52. > :05:55.talks about "I'm not their father." Well, actually, I'll will be legally

:05:56. > :06:01.you are. In most cases, legally you are. This is not about the

:06:02. > :06:04.parenthood per se but for the women as well... Simon can only do this

:06:05. > :06:11.because there are women out there who use him, who, for whatever

:06:12. > :06:14.reason, feel it is easier to justify... They think that the

:06:15. > :06:19.thousand pounds cost in the clinic is an optional luxury but this is

:06:20. > :06:22.not the seat warmers of the cars. The security is the seat

:06:23. > :06:29.not the seat warmers of the cars. the cars. They are there to protect

:06:30. > :06:33.people and the children who turn into adults with questions and that

:06:34. > :06:37.I find astounding. I want you to respond specifically to that point.

:06:38. > :06:41.Have you considered the impact on a child if they are told that you are

:06:42. > :06:44.their father and they are sitting wherever they are and they're

:06:45. > :06:49.thinking, is that potentially one of my 800 or so siblings quiz Bob the

:06:50. > :06:54.thing is, we all going to be known. It's not going to be like there's

:06:55. > :06:59.unknown children all over the place. But people don't announce who their

:07:00. > :07:02.father is when they are sitting on a train, if they are looking at

:07:03. > :07:07.somebody and seeing a resemblance. It might be in their mind. It might

:07:08. > :07:13.be a conversation starting point. You could say that about anyone,

:07:14. > :07:18.really. If you are being told by your parents... I think you

:07:19. > :07:21.underestimate how many parents tell. They will tell at the time because

:07:22. > :07:25.they think it is lovey-dovey but there comes a point when they

:07:26. > :07:29.realise, I need to tell my child that he has 800 or 900 siblings.

:07:30. > :07:34.Maybe I will withhold that information. But if they do tell,

:07:35. > :07:41.they have to acknowledge there are 800 900 half siblings. I think you

:07:42. > :07:45.are underestimating the impact. Try imagining everybody here having been

:07:46. > :07:49.told that they have 800 half siblings. You don't have to buy

:07:50. > :07:53.Christmas presents for them. Just knowing that you have that many out

:07:54. > :07:57.there who share half of your genes is a huge burden which we cannot and

:07:58. > :08:02.should not underestimate. The HFEA Limited to ten families? Yes so if

:08:03. > :08:08.you took three per family that might be 30 half siblings. We set that

:08:09. > :08:10.level because there is good evidence out there... Laura is absolutely

:08:11. > :08:14.right that in social and psychological terms, having that

:08:15. > :08:18.number of half siblings seems about the maximum number that people can

:08:19. > :08:23.reasonably deal with. I think the idea of somebody having 800 half

:08:24. > :08:25.siblings is just extraordinary. I imagine most viewers would think

:08:26. > :08:30.that. Is this making you think again? Not at all. The experience

:08:31. > :08:35.I've got, everyone is well happy with it. The thought of having that

:08:36. > :08:40.many... My boy thinks it's brilliant and my girl likes it. She's seen

:08:41. > :08:43.some of the half sisters and we don't really column half sisters, we

:08:44. > :08:47.call them brothers and sisters. How many have you met and how old are

:08:48. > :08:54.the oldest quiz Bob I've met quite a few. Not a huge amount. There might

:08:55. > :08:57.be some 16-year-olds out there. We are going to have to start kicking

:08:58. > :09:04.off these barbecue party ideas quite soon. Nick an e-mail, I think what

:09:05. > :09:07.Simon does is a special, life-giving thing. Thank to him, me and my

:09:08. > :09:10.girlfriend had a bit of a little boy. Lesbian couples don't get the

:09:11. > :09:15.help and support from the NHS and to do it privately cost thousands of

:09:16. > :09:18.pounds stop Anthony and text - good on him making it possible to do what

:09:19. > :09:26.is expensive to do via the regulated process. It is expensive to go down

:09:27. > :09:32.other routes. It is not expensive but this is security you buy for

:09:33. > :09:35.yourself and for your child. If you find ?1000 expensive for something

:09:36. > :09:40.like this, over the course of a lifetime of a person, you have to

:09:41. > :09:44.judge if you are fit as a parent. We're not talking seat warmers.

:09:45. > :09:49.We're not talking an optional extra. We are talking about the safety for

:09:50. > :09:53.yourself, and if Simon says there is nothing wrong with him, to be

:09:54. > :10:01.perfectly honest, I dispute that. I utterly dispute that. Well, I think

:10:02. > :10:06.you can judge by the numbers. I wasn't disputing the quality as a

:10:07. > :10:10.sperm donor. I'm not disputing your qualities as... There is a reason

:10:11. > :10:14.why there is an age limit, as well, for the donors because over 40,

:10:15. > :10:18.there is a significant evidence to show that man in general, the

:10:19. > :10:23.quality of the sperm has an increased risk of illnesses. 40 is

:10:24. > :10:30.the cut-off? 40 is the cut-off and there is a reason for that. How old

:10:31. > :10:33.are you? 41. If it goes on for four years, there is an increased risk of

:10:34. > :10:39.children with mainly psychiatric illnesses which manifests later on

:10:40. > :10:44.in life and I'm not sure whether you know... A lot of people have dads

:10:45. > :10:53.who conceive naturally who are older. It is different if it is your

:10:54. > :10:57.old child -- your own child. If it goes to 100 children, rather than

:10:58. > :11:01.one or two, as in normal circumstances... Karen on Twitter

:11:02. > :11:06.says a sperm donor does not make a father. He is a donor, not a dad.

:11:07. > :11:09.Anyone thinking otherwise should not donate. Stuart on Twitter says he is

:11:10. > :11:13.being hammered for trying to help desperate adults. He is hardly

:11:14. > :11:18.cashing in big-time. You've said you want to hit 1000. I'll keep going.

:11:19. > :11:23.I'm not going to stop. No reason to stop. As long as people want me, I

:11:24. > :11:28.will keep going. Until when? Until people don't want it any more? In

:11:29. > :11:33.your 60s? I will give you an example was that there is a man in Australia

:11:34. > :11:37.who a successful donor and he is ageing and he is doing a good job. I

:11:38. > :11:42.know some other people in England who are around 60 and still donating

:11:43. > :11:46.and they have no problems. People are happy to use them and coming

:11:47. > :11:50.back for more children so I think to myself, well, age is... For ladies,

:11:51. > :11:54.it seems to be the worst problem when they start getting over 40,

:11:55. > :11:58.then they are more likely to have a miscarriage than a baby but for men,

:11:59. > :12:03.there was also evidence that they have more intelligent children. So

:12:04. > :12:08.it is difficult to say at what age you should stop. This is not a

:12:09. > :12:12.numbers game. There are important issues of public health at stake

:12:13. > :12:16.here. If anybody is at all interested in becoming a donor or

:12:17. > :12:25.using donated Gammons, they need to get good advice. I urge people to go

:12:26. > :12:29.to our website. If you search and life-cycle, you find a whole series

:12:30. > :12:32.of leaflets talking about the legal ramifications, the screening

:12:33. > :12:36.requirements and the like. These are serious matters and people should

:12:37. > :12:44.look at them seriously. Natalie on e-mail - Simon helped me. I properly

:12:45. > :12:50.helped a few Natalie is. A lot of your comments are unfair. This man

:12:51. > :12:56.shop helps people who don't get offered IVF because they are in

:12:57. > :13:00.same-sex religion ships. As a parent to a healthy, happy one-year-old

:13:01. > :13:04.conceived via a sperm donor, I will honestly say I will never go to him

:13:05. > :13:08.for money because what he is giving us is priceless. Thank you all very

:13:09. > :13:12.much for speaking so honestly and for sharing your perspectives on

:13:13. > :13:17.this. I was just going to say, people can find me easily enough by

:13:18. > :13:21.just looking me up on the internet. Simon Watson, sperm donor. Or if

:13:22. > :13:26.they want to join up, I have over 25,000 people, so they can click on

:13:27. > :13:30.Facebook and join the site saying "Sperm donor" or sperm donation and

:13:31. > :13:34.you can find someone who will suit your needs in your part of the

:13:35. > :13:37.country. Thank you very much for joining the discussion. Do keep your

:13:38. > :13:41.thoughts coming into us on that and everything else we are talking about

:13:42. > :13:44.this morning. Still to come before 11: Prison in Kent is told needs to

:13:45. > :13:47.take urgent action to tackle the use of so-called legal highs

:13:48. > :13:55.amongst tackle inmates. lets get an update on news we

:13:56. > :13:58.brought you a few moments ago that a rainy and state television has

:13:59. > :14:02.reported that the ten American sailors arrested for entering Iran's

:14:03. > :14:05.territorial waters have been freed. With me is our BBC Persian

:14:06. > :14:09.correspondent. Things are moving quickly. We spoke to you not that

:14:10. > :14:13.long ago and it wasn't sure that they would be released. Is it

:14:14. > :14:16.confirmed? It is definitely confirmed. The Iranians state

:14:17. > :14:20.television said that they are released and, as I said earlier,

:14:21. > :14:24.everything looked like it was going to happen soon and I think there is

:14:25. > :14:32.definitely a sigh of relief among the people in Iran. They are more

:14:33. > :14:38.moderate people in Iran. I'm sure Barack Obama's camp... We are seeing

:14:39. > :14:42.that it has turned into an issue for the Republicans to attack Mr Obama

:14:43. > :14:47.for showing leniency towards Iran and now this release will show that

:14:48. > :14:50.probably the politics has worked this time. It was in everyone's

:14:51. > :14:56.interests for this to be resolved quickly. Not everyone's interests

:14:57. > :15:00.because we have on both sides people who don't want the Iranian nuclear

:15:01. > :15:05.deal to go through and I think they were hoping that this will become an

:15:06. > :15:08.issue, a bigger issue, than it already was. But I think the

:15:09. > :15:14.majority of people on both sides are very happy. Thank you. Thank you for

:15:15. > :15:21.joining us today. Still to come before 11: A Scottish

:15:22. > :15:24.couple who won half of Saturday's record-breaking ?66 million rational

:15:25. > :15:31.lottery jackpot are revealed. And good -- could budget cuts spell

:15:32. > :15:44.the end of free museum and art gallery admissions?

:15:45. > :15:53.President Obama has given a positive assessment in his final state of the

:15:54. > :15:58.union address. He criticised the divisive tone US politics has taken.

:15:59. > :16:02.Irani's state television is reporting ten American soldiers

:16:03. > :16:06.arrested for entering Iranian waters have been freed. Tehran said US

:16:07. > :16:10.officials have apologise for the incident which reportedly happened

:16:11. > :16:17.because of faulty navigation systems on the vessels. A suicide bomber in

:16:18. > :16:21.Pakistan has killed 15 people near a polio vaccination centre.

:16:22. > :16:24.Polio workers have been the target of many deadly attacks by Islamist

:16:25. > :16:25.militants opposed to the vaccination programmes.

:16:26. > :16:28.Most of those killed were police officers guarding the centre.

:16:29. > :16:31.A strike by junior doctors in England comes to an end -

:16:32. > :16:33.now there are fresh attempts to avert another one

:16:34. > :16:35.About 3,500 operations were cancelled during

:16:36. > :16:39.Millions of people in England and Wales are paying too much

:16:40. > :16:41.for their water supply because of poor industry regulation,

:16:42. > :16:51.Water companies have made windfall profits of more than ?1 billion

:16:52. > :16:53.because government regulators allowed them to charge consumers

:16:54. > :16:56.unnecessarily high bills. A toddler found walking to nursery

:16:57. > :16:59.alone has led police to the body The two-year-old girl was discovered

:17:00. > :17:02.by a Police Community Support Officer who was driving

:17:03. > :17:04.with his wife. NASA releases more details about

:17:05. > :17:14.Tim Peake's upcoming spacewalk. If it does go ahead, it will be the

:17:15. > :17:17.first time a British astronaut has carried out a spacewalk. He is due

:17:18. > :17:19.to leave the International Space Station on Friday to replace a

:17:20. > :17:20.failed power unit. Let's catch up with all

:17:21. > :17:28.the sport now and join Ore. More news of that significant

:17:29. > :17:32.sacking at Fifa. It is some significant news this morning, they

:17:33. > :17:37.have sacked their general secretary, Jerome Valcke. He is one of the most

:17:38. > :17:39.powerful figures in the global game and has been dismissed after ethics

:17:40. > :17:44.charges were brought against him last month. Sources close to the BBC

:17:45. > :17:48.have said a combination of factors made his sacking inevitable. He had

:17:49. > :17:54.already been suspended, and faces a nine-year ban for a total of seven

:17:55. > :17:58.alleged FA violations. Valcke has already denied any wrongdoing. What

:17:59. > :18:02.about last night's football? There was nothing boring about Manchester

:18:03. > :18:08.United's latest result, though manager Louis van Gaal says there

:18:09. > :18:10.are 33 through -- their 3-3 draw against Newcastle United that like a

:18:11. > :18:14.defeat. They led twice in the match was. Wayne Rooney's screamer looked

:18:15. > :18:18.to have secured a third win in a row. And then this deflected shrike

:18:19. > :18:26.in injury time in short the points would be shared at St James's Park.

:18:27. > :18:29.The world athletics governing body, the IAAF, fear the Russian diving

:18:30. > :18:34.was out of control that athletes could have died. That is six years

:18:35. > :18:37.before the country was banned from international condition. Leaked

:18:38. > :18:39.documents revealed yesterday showed the IAAF warned Russian athletics

:18:40. > :18:42.that the blood levels of their athletes were putting their health

:18:43. > :18:47.and even own lives in very serious danger. Tomorrow, a second report

:18:48. > :18:51.from the world anti-doping authority into doping is due to be released,

:18:52. > :18:57.which could mean more damaging headlines for the IAAF. The new

:18:58. > :19:01.England rugby union head coach Eddie Jones will name his first squad

:19:02. > :19:05.later today ahead of the six Nations. We won't find out who will

:19:06. > :19:09.captain Jones's side just yet but the new coach could spring a few

:19:10. > :19:14.surprises. Let's speak to Chris Jones who is in a London studio.

:19:15. > :19:18.Chris, should we expect many changes of the squad? Yes, we shed, a

:19:19. > :19:22.significant shake-up of the England setup will come this afternoon from

:19:23. > :19:28.Eddie Jones. There could be as many as seven uncapped players in the 33

:19:29. > :19:35.man squad. The 21-year-old Saracens forward, Miro Eto'o J, a player of

:19:36. > :19:41.immense promise and ability. As well as him, the out to Jack Clifford, a

:19:42. > :19:45.22-year-old back rower from harlequins and Josh Beaumont, son of

:19:46. > :19:48.the former England captain Bill Beaumont, he is also in with a very

:19:49. > :19:53.good chance of being in the Nick 's. Just three names, but a host of new

:19:54. > :19:56.names expected as Eddie Jones ploughs on with this new era of

:19:57. > :20:02.English rugby, following that World Cup disappointment. Does it mean

:20:03. > :20:06.some established guys will miss out? Yes, the emergence of those younger

:20:07. > :20:10.players means some Storl warts of the Stuart Lancaster regime, there

:20:11. > :20:13.are places are under threat, perhaps Tom would, the Northampton flanker

:20:14. > :20:17.who captain England as recently as the summer, his place is in danger,

:20:18. > :20:23.also Ben Morgan the Gloucester, number eight Brad Barritt, the

:20:24. > :20:27.Saracens centre, he could miss out. Danny Cipriani, the Sale fly half

:20:28. > :20:29.also set to be excluded from the party but a couple of experience

:20:30. > :20:34.names who missed the World Cup will come back in. Dylan Hartley, a prime

:20:35. > :20:38.contender to captain England when that decision is made in a couple of

:20:39. > :20:42.weeks' time, years also going to return, while money to a largely is

:20:43. > :20:45.back from injury and could play a part later in the six Nations.

:20:46. > :20:49.Plenty of movement, thank you very much for bringing us up to date. We

:20:50. > :20:55.are expecting that announcement around 2pm.

:20:56. > :21:01.I can tell you the names of two of the luckiest people in Britain this

:21:02. > :21:08.morning. They have won ?33 million on the lottery. This is the picture

:21:09. > :21:12.we are expecting to hear from them. David and Carol Martin from public

:21:13. > :21:17.in the Scottish Borders, and there they are, wearing big grins and

:21:18. > :21:27.carrying a very big cheque. -- from Howick. -- from Hawick in the

:21:28. > :21:33.Scottish Borders will stop they are the first of the ticket holders to

:21:34. > :21:36.be named. There is a second winning ticket to share in that ?66 million

:21:37. > :21:42.jackpot from the weekend. We don't know who the others are yet but

:21:43. > :21:46.there you go, David and Carol Martin from Hawick in the Scottish Borders,

:21:47. > :21:59.winners of that ?33 million, half of the UK's biggest ever Lotto jackpot.

:22:00. > :22:05.It says life changing at the top of that check, I think that can be

:22:06. > :22:09.guaranteed. It must be pretty overwhelming for them, in front of

:22:10. > :22:13.all of the media, and trying to digests the news was that lovely

:22:14. > :22:19.news to digester, but lives changing overnight with that winning ticket.

:22:20. > :22:24.Just a few days later, they are being unveiled before the media.

:22:25. > :22:32.They will be speaking, and we will go back and hear from them shortly.

:22:33. > :22:34.David and Carol Martin, Lucky them. Before free her from them, a bit

:22:35. > :22:35.about Rochester prison. Staff at a prison in Kent have been

:22:36. > :22:37.accused doing nothing, when faced with inmates under

:22:38. > :22:40.the influence of drugs. A report by the Chief Inspector

:22:41. > :22:42.of Prisons also criticises officers at Rochester Jail being complacent

:22:43. > :22:45.about inmates using legal highs, which have similar

:22:46. > :22:48.effects to illegal drugs. The former Chief Inspector

:22:49. > :22:50.of Prisons, Nick Hardwick, who wrote the report,

:22:51. > :22:53.said the prison had "not made the progress hoped for"

:22:54. > :22:55.since its last inspection in 2013. This is what Nick had to say

:22:56. > :22:58.to our programme about the threat of legal highs in prison

:22:59. > :23:15.back in December. We could talk to both, thank you for

:23:16. > :23:23.joining us. Mike, first of all, how would you describe the problems in

:23:24. > :23:26.Rochester? They are quite deep rooted, not just isolated to

:23:27. > :23:31.Rochester, something we are seeing across the entire estate at this

:23:32. > :23:34.moment of time. I must start by defending the staff at Rochester, it

:23:35. > :23:37.is a very tough environment, a lot of the units at Rochester only have

:23:38. > :23:50.two members of staff, which works with upto 60 prisoners. Is that a

:23:51. > :23:55.reason. Apparently seeing inmates high on drugs and apparently doing

:23:56. > :24:00.nothing? You need the support of the powers that be behind you. A lot of

:24:01. > :24:04.measures have been brought into place that don't protect those

:24:05. > :24:11.staff, they are struggling to try and manage the policies that have

:24:12. > :24:15.been put in place. Security, drugs being chucked over the wall, there

:24:16. > :24:19.is no staff to search the outside area. Those parcels make it into

:24:20. > :24:23.prisoners cells where they are distributed. There is no staff to

:24:24. > :24:27.search those cells. It is very easy to blame the staff working in that

:24:28. > :24:32.area not being able to tackle it but it is not the resources to tackle

:24:33. > :24:36.it... But drug-taking is happening therefore under the noses of the

:24:37. > :24:40.prison officers. What do they do? Do they just ignore it when they see it

:24:41. > :24:54.happening? There are a lot of your location is going on, they put in

:24:55. > :25:03.security. Let's bring in Bob Neil, I don't know if you could hear Mike

:25:04. > :25:10.Ralph. Yes, I could. He was saying that Finney prison officers behind

:25:11. > :25:14.them, how do you see this? Michael Gove, with a problem that blew up

:25:15. > :25:17.only earlier with Medway Young offenders Institute down the road

:25:18. > :25:23.was very quick about getting the top management in to get things sorted

:25:24. > :25:31.out. They are putting things in place and stop it is a new type of

:25:32. > :25:35.technology almost. We are even finding instances of Troon is being

:25:36. > :25:41.used to get drugs in prison so it is a really serious matter. The

:25:42. > :25:47.management have got to get a grip on this, but equally it is worth saying

:25:48. > :25:50.that Rochester is staffed up to its proper levels, so it is not short of

:25:51. > :25:59.staff, and the real thing it needs to do is to get the basics right. I

:26:00. > :26:05.would have thought it is part of the basics. So who do you blame? I think

:26:06. > :26:14.we need to first of all make sure that the top management of NOMS is

:26:15. > :26:18.on the ground. It is tough being a prison officer, but basic managerial

:26:19. > :26:21.techniques, things around not keeping the prison clean enough,

:26:22. > :26:26.issues around the quality of the food, getting people to their work

:26:27. > :26:30.sessions on time. None of that is rocket science. That is the sort of

:26:31. > :26:34.thing that needs to be tackled. Mike said when you have two members of

:26:35. > :26:39.staff working with 60 inmates in very difficult conditions, can they

:26:40. > :26:41.be expected to do all of that? The interesting thing is that the Chief

:26:42. > :26:45.inspector himself says that Rochester was staffed up to its

:26:46. > :26:50.proper level. There are some establishments where I think it is

:26:51. > :26:53.tough for prison officers because they are understaffed. Rochester

:26:54. > :26:57.seems not to be one of them. There must be other reasons we need to get

:26:58. > :27:02.to the back of, because everybody wants to see this sort of problem

:27:03. > :27:06.sorted out. Do you have any suspicions on what those reasons

:27:07. > :27:11.might be? Without going into the detail, we have had the top

:27:12. > :27:17.management of the national management vendor service income and

:27:18. > :27:20.we want to again. We have a new Chief Executive of prisons and it is

:27:21. > :27:23.something our committee will want to talk to about. We need to join it up

:27:24. > :27:27.properly, if you like, right from the top of the system to the officer

:27:28. > :27:33.on the front line. Woodruff irks question be to those people? What

:27:34. > :27:37.are their monitoring processes? I want to know why is it there has not

:27:38. > :27:40.been the processes at Rochester that there should have been, that we

:27:41. > :27:46.hoped there would be? There are some positives in the report but I think

:27:47. > :27:49.we need to find out why the previous report indicated some difficulties,

:27:50. > :27:52.and in some areas it may have gone backwards. You also need to tackle

:27:53. > :27:58.the whole issue of legal highs, which is a new problem confronting

:27:59. > :28:03.prison staff. They need support to be to deal with that. What do you

:28:04. > :28:08.say to that? I agree with a lot of what Bob has said. There is the

:28:09. > :28:13.problem that management do seem to be removed from those staff working

:28:14. > :28:16.on the ground floor now. The top half of management are saying other

:28:17. > :28:19.writings, doing all the ratings publicly, but not assisting the

:28:20. > :28:23.staff on front line duties. Bob has touched on that point but I think

:28:24. > :28:29.that is a real problem. It is becoming a pandemic around prisoner

:28:30. > :28:32.stakes. You can't have someone sitting in an office ticking all the

:28:33. > :28:36.boxes saying everything is working when quite clearly it isn't on the

:28:37. > :28:45.shop floor. You talk about legal highs being a new issue. Can you

:28:46. > :28:48.understand how it is happening? I know you have described the ways

:28:49. > :28:52.they are getting into prisons by drones, whatever. Viewers might say

:28:53. > :28:57.these are supposed to be the most secure places in the country, how on

:28:58. > :29:01.earth do drugs get inside? Can you understand that? I can perfectly

:29:02. > :29:05.understand that surprise people feel forced up there are, as I'm sure

:29:06. > :29:08.might well know from his experience, many ways in which people can try

:29:09. > :29:12.and smuggle things in, unfortunately. Sometimes through

:29:13. > :29:17.visitors, sometimes instances we have found hooks being soaked in a

:29:18. > :29:20.legal highs. Drones is a new development, it used to be this

:29:21. > :29:23.issue of throwing things over the wall and so forth. Unfortunately we

:29:24. > :29:28.have always had an issue with drugs and prisons. Going back to the time

:29:29. > :29:31.I can run a ball I was a young lawyer practising. You need to get a

:29:32. > :29:35.grip on it. The key thing is it is making sure there is that joined up

:29:36. > :29:38.approach, as Mike says, from what has been said by the top brass at

:29:39. > :29:41.the National offender management service to actually having policies

:29:42. > :29:44.and procedures which are communicated to the officers on the

:29:45. > :29:49.front line so they can read tackle it. It sounds like it is clear where

:29:50. > :29:52.you are pointing the finger. I think it is pretty clear where the

:29:53. > :30:00.evidence looks at the moment. Thank you very much.

:30:01. > :30:07.We were just seeing those national lottery winners. They have won ?33

:30:08. > :30:09.million, the UK Bosman latest record-breaking lottery winners have

:30:10. > :30:12.been speaking to the media. They are David and Carol Martin from Hawick

:30:13. > :30:28.in the Scottish Borders. Obviously, the initial shock was

:30:29. > :30:33.surreal. If we'd won ?50,000, we would have probably danced around

:30:34. > :30:45.the living room instead of looking at each other, saying, "We've won

:30:46. > :30:52.?33 million," it was total shock. 50 grand at our level would be huge but

:30:53. > :30:57.33 million was just unbelievable. We're still really stunned. Stunned

:30:58. > :31:05.silence, to be honest. But all good, obviously. All good. Take us back.

:31:06. > :31:14.Last week it was on the news about the huge jackpot. You went on

:31:15. > :31:20.Saturday to buy a ticket? Yes. We go shopping with Carol's mum most

:31:21. > :31:23.Saturdays to the local supermarket, Morrisons, and I'd had the ticket

:31:24. > :31:28.from the previous Wednesday and I asked the lady to check it and she

:31:29. > :31:35.said," you've won". I'd got a free Lucky dip. I said I would just have

:31:36. > :31:45.her lucky dips you had three lines in total. -- three lucky dips. We

:31:46. > :31:50.didn't know the results of the numbers or anything until the

:31:51. > :31:59.Sunday. We never really watched the programme. We used to watch it when

:32:00. > :32:04.Dale Winton was on In It To Win It, I don't like the other

:32:05. > :32:09.unfortunately. You didn't check it? Where did you put your ticket? It

:32:10. > :32:15.was just sitting on the mantelpiece, just sitting... He moves it around

:32:16. > :32:19.every week to see if we've got a lucky bit. Each week it's in a

:32:20. > :32:28.different bit. Luckily spots on the mantelpiece? We'll put it here this

:32:29. > :32:31.week and, she wasn't lucky, we will try it here. This particular

:32:32. > :32:37.ornament sounds like it was quite lucky? So when did you check your

:32:38. > :32:46.tickets? Not until Sunday? Sunday morning. My mate came up for a

:32:47. > :32:51.coffee and a chat and he said, two people have won the lottery. I said,

:32:52. > :32:55.oh, great. He pointed and said, there is the tickets up there. I

:32:56. > :33:00.hadn't checked them. He had a coffee, had a chat, he went away and

:33:01. > :33:07.I said Carol, we will have a late breakfast. The usual thing that we

:33:08. > :33:12.have. I said, go and... We couldn't find it in the paper. We couldn't

:33:13. > :33:18.find the numbers for some reason but she was on the phone and she started

:33:19. > :33:24.reading them out. 26. We've got that. We've got that. We've got

:33:25. > :33:33.that. We got that. And what did you say? I thought he was just joking. I

:33:34. > :33:38.just couldn't believe it. Can I just jump in with a quick question? I'm

:33:39. > :33:45.Michael. You are live on This, grow morning. Congratulations. Everyone

:33:46. > :33:50.is going to have had a dream about if they won the lottery, what they

:33:51. > :33:57.would get. Now you have that, do you know what you are going to get?

:33:58. > :34:01.Obviously, my daughter is in Australia so that will be the first

:34:02. > :34:08.purchase. We haven't done that yet but it will be probably a first

:34:09. > :34:11.flight home. From Australia, for my daughter. She arrives next week and

:34:12. > :34:15.there will be time to get settled down and we will be great to see her

:34:16. > :34:24.again. Your daughter was the first person you told? Yes, and

:34:25. > :34:27.obviously... She was driving. I phoned her. She was driving but she

:34:28. > :34:34.has a hands-free phone I said, can you pull over? And she pulled over

:34:35. > :34:39.and she was really worried because I think she thought somebody had died

:34:40. > :34:43.or something. It is usually Skype or a WhatsApp because that is free. You

:34:44. > :34:48.never phoned them because it costs. I don't know what it costs to phone

:34:49. > :34:59.Australia. By lot of money. Who cares now? ! Would you be leaving

:35:00. > :35:04.your job is? Well, we've got... The type of people we are, we are very

:35:05. > :35:10.conscientious towards our work. These last few days has been telling

:35:11. > :35:13.basically lies to our employers stop you are phoning in sick and we are

:35:14. > :35:24.busily went sick. Well, we were sick! Where were you working? I work

:35:25. > :35:28.at Boots the chemist. And I work for a company called Borders Care and

:35:29. > :35:34.Repair, which helps elderly people in their own homes. You have

:35:35. > :35:40.indicated that you might spend some of the money to help out flood

:35:41. > :35:44.victims. Tell me about that. Obviously, it's been everywhere with

:35:45. > :35:50.the flooding, not just Hawick. It's something we will look into. We

:35:51. > :35:56.can't comment directly about that but Hawick is a tight-knit

:35:57. > :36:02.community. We will look into that but we can't comment on it right

:36:03. > :36:07.now. Were you flooded yourself? Not personally, no. The company I work

:36:08. > :36:12.for, I was on stand-by that weekend and their care home got evacuated so

:36:13. > :36:17.I was involved in that. It's not just Hawick it has been neglected,

:36:18. > :36:21.it is the whole of the country, so when you see the damage, it is

:36:22. > :36:29.horrible to think... After you've bought the first-class flight, what

:36:30. > :36:33.else will use bend money on? We're just still in such shock, we've not

:36:34. > :36:40.really have much time to think about it. The simple question, when you

:36:41. > :36:44.see it on the TV, it is a car, house, but everybody is at a level

:36:45. > :36:50.that they're spending. You guys spend at this level, you're spending

:36:51. > :36:54.here. It sounds stupid but just a nice pair of shoes, a pair of

:36:55. > :37:01.brogues for 200 quid that you've never, ever bought. It sounds

:37:02. > :37:05.really, really stupid but it it is. It's a different level but it's

:37:06. > :37:16.going to take a little while to sink in, to be honest. A bit of time to

:37:17. > :37:25.sink in. And you, Carol? Diamonds! I haven't bought anything yet. I

:37:26. > :37:30.haven't been shopping yet. We haven't been out shopping yet. That

:37:31. > :37:37.time will come in the next few days. We talked about cars earlier and we

:37:38. > :37:41.talked about dream cars and I know David has been talking about a range

:37:42. > :37:46.Rover. You have more of a thing about just getting up and down... I

:37:47. > :37:50.imagine there are some big hills. There is one big hill in particular

:37:51. > :37:54.that when I drive, I never go but because it is so steep that when you

:37:55. > :37:59.get up to the top, it is so steep that if you stop you roll backwards.

:38:00. > :38:04.So I'd like an automatic car so I can get up and down the hill. Make

:38:05. > :38:09.it an automatic? I never go up the hill because I'm frightened in case

:38:10. > :38:12.I get stuck up the top. It has been very difficult the last two days

:38:13. > :38:15.because you have been calling in sick to work. Have you finally

:38:16. > :38:21.spoken to work this morning? What were their reactions? Very pleased.

:38:22. > :38:27.Excited. Do you think your colleagues had almost guessed? I

:38:28. > :38:32.think they had because they know I'm never sick. I think they thought

:38:33. > :38:42.there was something going on. Are you expecting to go back? I haven't

:38:43. > :38:48.actually... That's a no! I haven't spoken to my manager yet or

:38:49. > :38:53.anything. If you are close with your work colleagues... Carol has worked

:38:54. > :38:58.with them for 20 years and it's a big, big thing. It is people that

:38:59. > :39:02.you work with, you trust. You're there every single day and all of a

:39:03. > :39:05.sudden, you are giving them a little white lie and then another little

:39:06. > :39:11.light light and today is probing the first time both of us felt more

:39:12. > :39:19.relaxed. We told our work colleagues and said, "Look, we've won this 33

:39:20. > :39:24.million quid," and it's when you speak to everybody... We were still

:39:25. > :39:28.in a bit of shock but every time you spoke to somebody, they were so

:39:29. > :39:34.happy for you. It is a really, really weird feeling. It is good. I

:39:35. > :39:39.am from ITV news. You said you didn't speak to each other for the

:39:40. > :39:42.first five minutes. What was the first thing that you did say to each

:39:43. > :39:51.other? We just kept looking at each other. "No, It can't be". I'm bought

:39:52. > :40:00.Carol said to me. She said, "What have we done?" That the enormity of

:40:01. > :40:07.it. You get to a point of 50,000 quid, we would have been doing

:40:08. > :40:17.cartwheels in the living room. But it was like... It was like that.

:40:18. > :40:18.That is David and Carol Martin, ?33 million richer, thanks to six lucky

:40:19. > :40:21.numbers. Could free admission to regional

:40:22. > :40:24.museums and art galleries become The Museums Association say that

:40:25. > :40:27.more of them are having to charge entry fees

:40:28. > :40:29.to make budgets balance, and the number of those that

:40:30. > :40:31.are shutting or partly The association says

:40:32. > :40:34.in Lancashire for example, five museums are scheduled to close

:40:35. > :40:37.this year with others Alistair Brown is from

:40:38. > :40:45.the Museum Association. Thanks for joining us. Tell us how

:40:46. > :40:51.many museums are finding it difficult to make ends meet right

:40:52. > :40:56.now. The museums that are really sounding the alarm bell at the

:40:57. > :41:01.moment is the local authority run museums across the UK. So, really,

:41:02. > :41:08.that's the 700 or so museums across the UK which are funded directly by

:41:09. > :41:11.local authorities. These are the big, often Victorian buildings that

:41:12. > :41:15.you will see in town and city centres across the country. Ones

:41:16. > :41:20.that are not perhaps the big London nationals that people will be

:41:21. > :41:27.familiar with but the next ramp down. In Lancashire, in Derby, in

:41:28. > :41:30.Preston and so on. How well visited are these places and what difference

:41:31. > :41:36.does it make if they have to start charging? Well, they are hugely well

:41:37. > :41:41.loved and they have growing audiences and that's something of a

:41:42. > :41:44.paradox of what we are seeing at the moment. Museum audiences are going

:41:45. > :41:49.up on one hand but museum funding is coming down on the other and that's

:41:50. > :41:53.as a result, really, of these swingeing local authority cuts which

:41:54. > :41:56.are forcing local authorities to make some very difficult decisions

:41:57. > :42:02.about where they put their money. What sort of things are being lost

:42:03. > :42:07.to public view, if parts of museums are having to close and sometimes

:42:08. > :42:13.museums closing completely quiz Bob for example, one of the museums that

:42:14. > :42:16.is due to close in a couple of months is the Durham Light Infantry

:42:17. > :42:20.museum. That is a regimental museum so it holds all of the collection is

:42:21. > :42:26.associated with the Durham Light Infantry Regiment. It goes right

:42:27. > :42:30.back to collections dating back to the 18th-century. They are currently

:42:31. > :42:34.putting on an exhibition, helping to but an exhibition about the Somme,

:42:35. > :42:38.so these collections that meaning huge amount to local communities and

:42:39. > :42:43.are really a core part of their history, and yet there is potential

:42:44. > :42:48.that they will be put in storage, never to be seen again. Thank you

:42:49. > :42:53.very much. We've had a statement from the Department of Culture. It

:42:54. > :42:54.says, "This government has protected funding for national museums to

:42:55. > :43:09.ensure they remain free to enter..." I don't know about you but I'm still

:43:10. > :43:14.feeling very happy, having seen Carol and David Martin celebrating

:43:15. > :43:17.that extraordinaire lottery win, ?33 million. They clearly don't quite

:43:18. > :43:22.know what to make of it but complete joy for them this morning. Lots of

:43:23. > :43:25.you getting in touch with us on the sperm donor I interviewed a little

:43:26. > :43:28.earlier. You might have seen his report. He reckons he's probably

:43:29. > :43:33.fathered 800 children through sperm donation. Will an e-mail - there was

:43:34. > :43:36.a possibility that children might have questions about their paternity

:43:37. > :43:40.or their siblings but what you seem to be the getting is that human is

:43:41. > :43:43.alive, loved and forging their own path likes to Simon's help where

:43:44. > :43:47.both private and public services failed to give the recipients

:43:48. > :43:51.anything. Lucy on Twitter - how can you not admire this guy quiz Bob

:43:52. > :43:54.he's totally honest. Thank you so much for all your comments

:43:55. > :43:56.throughout the programme. I will see you tomorrow. Have a good day.

:43:57. > :44:01.Goodbye. It's the Oscar

:44:02. > :44:03.for the mobile phone industry. The search for Britain's best

:44:04. > :44:08.mobile phone salesperson is on. We are expecting to see people

:44:09. > :44:15.who can sell anything. It scares me,

:44:16. > :44:19.about what my potential is.