20/01/2016

:00:08. > :00:08.Hello it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:09. > :00:15.This is Poppi Worthington from cumbria.

:00:16. > :00:19.Her case will shock and upset you and today politicians

:00:20. > :00:24.This morning we'll bring you her full story.

:00:25. > :00:34.The Police Federation in England and Wales tell this programme that

:00:35. > :00:39.British lives are being put at risk because police officers are not

:00:40. > :00:43.routinely armed with tasers. Plus it's been likened

:00:44. > :00:45.to an apartheid policy. Asylum seekers in Middlesborough

:00:46. > :00:47.being housed in homes He just wants a peaceful

:00:48. > :00:53.life with no war. He's like a son to me

:00:54. > :00:56.and I don't want...to lose him. That was Karen, a foster carer who's

:00:57. > :01:03.been looking after a 14-year-old asylum seeker from

:01:04. > :01:05.Afghanistan who turned up We'll find out what it's

:01:06. > :01:10.like to open your home to a child We are on BBC Two and the BBC

:01:11. > :01:32.News Channel until 11 this morning. We will bring you the latest

:01:33. > :01:37.employment figures that are due out at how past nine this morning and

:01:38. > :01:38.reaction from the Employment Minister Priti Patel just after ten

:01:39. > :01:40.Minister Priti Patel just after ten o'clock.

:01:41. > :01:42.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:43. > :01:45.And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

:01:46. > :01:52.you are via the BBC News app or our Website.

:01:53. > :01:55.British people's lives are being put at risk because officers are not

:01:56. > :01:57.being routinely armed with taser guns.

:01:58. > :01:59.That is what the Police Federation in England and Wales

:02:00. > :02:05.At the moment there is no consistency about how many officers

:02:06. > :02:14.carry tasers, but right now most do not.

:02:15. > :02:17.The Home Office says tasers were used 10,062 times in 2014,

:02:18. > :02:19.but were only actually fired in around 2000 cases.

:02:20. > :02:59.Get down! Stay exactly where you are and I will not have to use the taser

:03:00. > :03:06.Let's introduce you to Ivan Martin who was tasered by police

:03:07. > :03:08.in Birmingham AND Steve White, who's the chairman of

:03:09. > :03:12.the Police Federation in England and Wales.

:03:13. > :03:23.Good morning. Thank you both for coming in. Why do you want a wider

:03:24. > :03:28.roll-out of tasers? This is what police officers up and down the

:03:29. > :03:32.country have been saying to us. They are feeling vulnerable. Over many

:03:33. > :03:36.years we have seen the value that a taser can bring and I think the

:03:37. > :03:42.public recognise the value that they bring because it is a less than

:03:43. > :03:46.lethal option. At the moment police officers carry weapons that can

:03:47. > :03:52.cause serious injury and in some cases death. A taser fills that gap.

:03:53. > :03:56.It means you can gain control, you can deal with people effectively and

:03:57. > :04:01.quickly without causing injury and without resorting to even more

:04:02. > :04:06.violence. You say police officers are feeling vulnerable, more

:04:07. > :04:12.vulnerable than usual? Absolutely, the risks are greater than probably

:04:13. > :04:14.at any time certainly in my service. We have seen intelligence

:04:15. > :04:21.assessments that have been suggesting that. The terror threat

:04:22. > :04:25.in Britain has been severe, the second-highest, for 18 months, since

:04:26. > :04:30.August 2014, despite Charlie Hebdo and despite what we saw in Paris in

:04:31. > :04:37.November and the Russian airliner being shot down. That is just one

:04:38. > :04:41.aspect of it. The day-to-day deployment of police officers,

:04:42. > :04:46.16,000 fewer cops on the streets, so you have got vulnerability in terms

:04:47. > :04:50.of single crew in and getting to an incident. In Thames Valley and

:04:51. > :04:58.Leytonstone in the real value of having officers equipped and ready

:04:59. > :05:02.to respond quickly to deploy and use the device effectively has been of

:05:03. > :05:07.huge value. Rather than calling in firearms officers and that may take

:05:08. > :05:10.ten or 15 minutes or longer? Exactly, or dealing with the threat

:05:11. > :05:15.in a different way which might involve potentially lethal force or

:05:16. > :05:20.force that might cause injury to the officer, the suspect or the public.

:05:21. > :05:25.Which is why use a British lives are at risk because of this delay in

:05:26. > :05:29.rolling them out. The Police Federation unanimously voted for

:05:30. > :05:34.this to happen a year ago. It is not a government decision, it is down to

:05:35. > :05:40.chief constables. We understand they are meeting today to discuss this

:05:41. > :05:43.issue. Are they listening to you? Some chief constables are very

:05:44. > :05:47.sympathetic and they have to demonstrate to their officers that

:05:48. > :05:52.they are concerned for their safety. It is a balancing act. They have got

:05:53. > :05:57.to ensure the level of police response is appropriate. We listen

:05:58. > :05:59.to the Prime Minister before Christmas, clearly showing an

:06:00. > :06:05.indication that politically now is the right time to make this move. It

:06:06. > :06:11.is a highly effective tool and the public are onside and they

:06:12. > :06:16.understand its use. Community relations will not be damaged by its

:06:17. > :06:20.roll-out. We are asking for police officers to volunteer, who undertake

:06:21. > :06:27.their rigorous training to be allowed to do it. It is not being

:06:28. > :06:33.allowed to give every single police officer taser. It will be needed to

:06:34. > :06:42.keep people safe. You were tasered. What was it like? It was like when

:06:43. > :06:48.they actually taser you your body goes to jelly and you fall on the

:06:49. > :06:56.floor with no control whatsoever. Was painful? It is even painful if

:06:57. > :06:59.you fall awkwardly because you have got no natural putting your hand

:07:00. > :07:09.down to break your fall wherever you are. The fall caused me more damage

:07:10. > :07:14.than the taser itself. What were the circumstances? They came to my house

:07:15. > :07:19.looking for my son who is 23 years old and I was unable to tell them or

:07:20. > :07:24.persuade them that I was not the guy there were looking for. In the end

:07:25. > :07:28.they decided to come into the House and as they came at me I moved out

:07:29. > :07:36.of the way so they would not pour over me and the next minute I know I

:07:37. > :07:40.felt like two Bullets go into my back and the next minute I got an

:07:41. > :07:45.electric shock and my body went to jelly and I felt on the floor and

:07:46. > :07:50.caused myself an injury. In the end it was a mistake and they should not

:07:51. > :07:53.have done that and you were paid compensation. Despite your

:07:54. > :07:58.experience, do you understand Steve White's call on behalf of his

:07:59. > :08:03.members of the Police Federation to routinely are more officers with

:08:04. > :08:09.taser 's if they wanted volunteer to use them? I understand where they

:08:10. > :08:13.are coming from and I understand the risks they take when they are

:08:14. > :08:18.outside. Yes, it is far better to taser somebody and somebody having a

:08:19. > :08:28.firearm and shooting them. I have no problem about it. But it is the

:08:29. > :08:33.accountability. In my case why could they not talk to me? Why did they

:08:34. > :08:38.have to pull the taser out first? It is like back in the old days where

:08:39. > :08:43.they shoot first and answer questions later. I know you cannot

:08:44. > :08:46.comment on his case, but the point about accountability, if a mistake

:08:47. > :08:52.is made and there is mistaken identity, what happens from the

:08:53. > :08:57.taxpayer's point of view when it comes to accountability? The police

:08:58. > :09:02.officer is accountable to the law and the public. If a mistake has

:09:03. > :09:06.been made the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigated

:09:07. > :09:14.rigorously to make sure lessons are learned and in Ivan's case to

:09:15. > :09:17.apologise. But what is important is the training for this device is

:09:18. > :09:22.significant. I want to pick up the point that Ivan was talking about in

:09:23. > :09:26.terms of communication. It is not about giving a police officer taser

:09:27. > :09:34.and saying, you can use that, so you do not talk to people. A lot of the

:09:35. > :09:38.training is about its use. To point it and use it is straightforward.

:09:39. > :09:43.Officers are trained to understand it should not replace their skills.

:09:44. > :09:47.Their ability to have that conversation and assess the level of

:09:48. > :09:51.risk has to happen very quickly. Quite often it will be obvious if

:09:52. > :09:55.you are facing a serious risk. If you are facing a big machete, you

:09:56. > :10:02.have to deal with that risk, but it does not mean you do not continue to

:10:03. > :10:06.talk to people. It should be on the basis of officers volunteering to

:10:07. > :10:13.take that additional responsibility. You have been an officer for how

:10:14. > :10:20.long? 27 years. Things have changed since you went out with a truncheon

:10:21. > :10:24.and a cake! That is right. When you go out to you as an officer feel

:10:25. > :10:31.different in terms of the threat you face? It is about awareness, it is

:10:32. > :10:36.about expecting the unexpected wherever the threat might come from

:10:37. > :10:40.and this is part of the problem. We are now policing an environment

:10:41. > :10:44.which is difficult to predict. The threat can come from anywhere. No

:10:45. > :10:50.longer do we just deal with the city centre violence, violence can happen

:10:51. > :10:54.anyway as we saw recently in the Thames Valley. We have got to make

:10:55. > :10:58.sure we have the resources to deal with it in order to keep the public

:10:59. > :11:04.safe. You are messages from the public. This tweet says British

:11:05. > :11:08.lives are being put at risk because trigger-happy police are being armed

:11:09. > :11:14.with taser guns. There have been some taser related deaths. Yes,

:11:15. > :11:21.nothing is perfect and there have been deaths from people being

:11:22. > :11:25.restrained, deaths from people having other devices. We are saying

:11:26. > :11:30.this is a much safer option and the evidence is clear and any death

:11:31. > :11:33.involving please contact is regrettable. We are never going to

:11:34. > :11:38.be perfect all of the time, but if you look at the statistics, and

:11:39. > :11:43.sadly they are lacking in the way we measure this in terms of its

:11:44. > :11:47.usefulness, overwhelmingly it is useful. You quoted figures earlier

:11:48. > :11:52.in your report and the vast majority of times when people see that police

:11:53. > :11:57.have taser, they backed down and start to behave and the use of it is

:11:58. > :12:03.negated. The idea you have got a taser tends to be escalate the

:12:04. > :12:07.situation and you gain control. This tweet says tasers are death and

:12:08. > :12:12.heavy regulation will be needed if they become commonplace. They are

:12:13. > :12:17.dangerous. Craik said it please carry tasers they should also wear

:12:18. > :12:23.video recording equipment. There is too much mistrust to simply roll

:12:24. > :12:28.them out. And on relation to video recorders, we are rolling out body

:12:29. > :12:33.worn videos too many places in the country. As soon as the taser is

:12:34. > :12:37.taken out, the camera starts recording. I have met members

:12:38. > :12:42.recently who say they will no longer go out and patrol unless they have

:12:43. > :12:46.got a video camera because they understand it. In the vast majority

:12:47. > :12:52.of cases where a taser has been deployed it has been to the benefit

:12:53. > :12:57.of the public and the suspect. A quick question about another story

:12:58. > :13:03.in the news, the idea of volunteers being given police powers in peace

:13:04. > :13:07.forces, what do you think? We have been talking about accountability

:13:08. > :13:13.for fully trained police officers. We have got significant concerns.

:13:14. > :13:18.Will we see volunteers being given tasers as well? It raises all sorts

:13:19. > :13:23.of questions. The public of this country deserve up properly trained

:13:24. > :13:31.police service and that is what should remain. Thank you very much.

:13:32. > :13:36.Many thanks for your time. On Ivan's case, a spokesperson from West

:13:37. > :13:41.Midlands police said the civil action relating to the wrongful

:13:42. > :13:45.arrest of him in 2014 resulted in the force paying him damages. We

:13:46. > :13:53.have accepted making a mistake and an investigation upheld his case.

:13:54. > :14:22.The government said it is committed. A hell of a subcontractor is being

:14:23. > :14:26.accused of an apartheid policy because asylum seekers are being put

:14:27. > :14:29.up in homes with front doors that are painted bright red. Some

:14:30. > :14:33.residents have said they have stones and eggs thrown at their windows in

:14:34. > :14:39.Middlesbrough because their doors make them easy to identify. The

:14:40. > :14:49.Times newspaper visited 168 homes in the owned by a subcontractor to G

:14:50. > :14:56.for S. G4S says they will be repainted. But one resident claimed

:14:57. > :15:00.when he painted his door wide it was repainted red two days later and the

:15:01. > :15:08.Home Office has ordered an urgent review. Suzanne Fletcher is a

:15:09. > :15:12.retired councillor in the area. I think you raised this very issue

:15:13. > :15:19.with the Home Affairs Select Committee in 2013. Is that right?

:15:20. > :15:25.Yes, it is. But it goes further. When I first heard about this in

:15:26. > :15:32.2011, meeting with the local community organising the regional

:15:33. > :15:37.refugee Forum, there were a lot of housing issues.

:15:38. > :15:48.What is the name issue -- main issue for you? They were feeling very

:15:49. > :15:51.insecure, feeling nervous, worried about reporting to police because

:15:52. > :15:57.they felt very vulnerable, they do not want to do anything to

:15:58. > :16:01.jeopardise their case. They want to stay here in safety, obviously they

:16:02. > :16:05.have fled. The police have done everything they can when they know

:16:06. > :16:09.about it, but it is the worry that they could not report it but there

:16:10. > :16:18.have been ex-thrown and stones thrown. Racist graffiti. -- eggs

:16:19. > :16:23.thrown. But I must stress that it is a naughty of people. In general,

:16:24. > :16:28.Teesside is a welcoming place and we are happy to have asylum seekers. It

:16:29. > :16:33.is just a view, and it has been easy for them, because the red doors told

:16:34. > :16:41.them which houses it was, so that they could throw, they could run

:16:42. > :16:43.away. So easy for them. Do you accept the subcontractor saying,

:16:44. > :16:48.there is no deliberate policy to paint these red in order to identify

:16:49. > :16:54.the fact that asylum seekers live in these homes? I think that when it

:16:55. > :17:02.was first done, I think there was not any intention to do anything at

:17:03. > :17:05.all that was bad, I don't think that was the original intention, what is

:17:06. > :17:15.annoying is the way that they have not responded to calls to do

:17:16. > :17:18.something about it. Nor has G4S and we had a meeting with them and they

:17:19. > :17:24.said they would not take the issue forward, there would not ask them to

:17:25. > :17:31.change the doors. -- they would. It has been through a whole variety of

:17:32. > :17:43.House of Commons select committees, and they have been told that they

:17:44. > :17:53.will look into it. They will repaint them now, is that enough for you? On

:17:54. > :17:56.the doors issue, that is what is needed, but they need to be more

:17:57. > :18:01.responsive on other issues, like the sharing of bedrooms, for instance,

:18:02. > :18:04.people with a different language and different cultures and different

:18:05. > :18:07.faith are sharing a bedroom, and they cannot even talk to each other

:18:08. > :18:15.properly because they do not have a shared language. We need to be able

:18:16. > :18:17.to sort that out, so that people are sharing with someone who they have

:18:18. > :18:24.something in common with and so that they can communicate, you do need

:18:25. > :18:30.that, if you are sharing a bedroom. G4S: " our subcontractor has no

:18:31. > :18:37.policy to has asylum seekers behind red doors... And it

:18:38. > :18:54.-- behind red doors..." And it goes on:

:18:55. > :19:01.breaking news, unemployment has fallen by 99,000 between September

:19:02. > :19:06.and November, 1.68 million, official figures out in the last minute or so

:19:07. > :19:08.have shown. More reaction on that to come. Defence ministers from several

:19:09. > :19:12.countries including Britain meeting in Paris today to talk about

:19:13. > :19:18.intensifying the military campaign against so-called Islamic State, in

:19:19. > :19:28.Syria and Iraq. Michael Fallon says that he would like the Allies quote

:19:29. > :19:45." -- would like the Allies to quote " strike harder". Coming up:

:19:46. > :19:48.Police and prosecutors are urged to look again at the distressing death

:19:49. > :19:51.of Poppi Worthington who died suddenly at the age of 13 months,

:19:52. > :19:54.we'll be talking to a former judge. And we meet a foster mother from

:19:55. > :20:02.Yorkshire who's looking after a teenager from war-torn Afghanistan.

:20:03. > :20:06.At least 19 people are reported to have been killed -- after militants

:20:07. > :20:11.storm a university in northwestern Pakistan. The Defence Secretary,

:20:12. > :20:14.Michael Fallon, will urge his counterparts in Paris today to hit

:20:15. > :20:17.harder at what he calls the "head of the snake" in the fight against the

:20:18. > :20:19.so-called Islamic State in Syria. Brussels considers changes to the

:20:20. > :20:25.rules that require refugees to claim asylum in the first country in which

:20:26. > :20:27.they arrive. E.On is to reduce its standard gas price from next month

:20:28. > :20:30.-- following mounting criticism of the big energy companies for failing

:20:31. > :20:51.to pass on falling wholesale prices to consumers.

:20:52. > :20:55.A 10-year-old Muslim boy who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a

:20:56. > :20:57."terrorist house" when he meant to say "terraced house" during an

:20:58. > :20:59.English lesson at school has been investigated by police. And Donald

:21:00. > :21:01.Trump gets the backing of Sarah Palin, the populist ex-governor of

:21:02. > :21:12.Alaska and former Republican vice-presidential candidate.

:21:13. > :21:18.Last non-league side are out, Eastleigh, not without a fight, we

:21:19. > :21:22.will have some of the goals, including a penalty shoot out coming

:21:23. > :21:25.up at 10am, football in Scotland as well, all of the goals at Celtic

:21:26. > :21:31.Park, leaders Celtic beating Hamilton 8-1, the fallout from these

:21:32. > :21:35.tennis match fixing investigations continues, a former player who is

:21:36. > :21:39.now a coach has claimed that it is a secret that everybody knows on tour,

:21:40. > :21:43.that the tennis authorities know who is doing it and it affects major

:21:44. > :21:48.tournaments as well. The tennis integrity units asked the former

:21:49. > :21:52.player to share his information with them. No shocks so far on the third

:21:53. > :21:57.day of fierce trailing open, first grand slam of the year, all of the

:21:58. > :22:00.top seeds are through including Roger Federer and Serena Williams.

:22:01. > :22:06.Coming up in the next half-hour we will have some of the action.

:22:07. > :22:09.The former justice minister Simon Hughes has told the BBC

:22:10. > :22:11.that the Crown Prosecution Service should re-open the case

:22:12. > :22:12.into the death of thirteen-month-old Poppi Worthington.

:22:13. > :22:15.Yesterday a judge ruled that Poppi was sexually assaulted by her father

:22:16. > :22:18.shortly before she suddenly died, after being found with serious

:22:19. > :22:19.injuries at her home in Barrow-in Furness.

:22:20. > :22:21.Poppi's father, Paul Worthington, was questioned by police

:22:22. > :22:23.on suspicion of sexual assault but was not charged

:22:24. > :22:27.He's always denied any wrongdoing and has said he does not accept

:22:28. > :22:57.The family judge Mr Justice Peter Jackson was using a different

:22:58. > :23:00.standard of proof to that used in the criminal law to make his claims

:23:01. > :23:03.The local MP for Barrow, John Woodcock says the government must do

:23:04. > :23:05.more to ensure justice is done. We feel sick and angry about the

:23:06. > :23:07.failures of the social services and the police, showing that Poppi

:23:08. > :23:10.Worthington has not had justice for her death and her killer is still

:23:11. > :23:13.free to roam the streets of Barrow. I want the Home Secretary to step in

:23:14. > :23:18.now, and give this case to another force, to try to salvage some hope

:23:19. > :23:22.that there could be a criminal investigation after all of the

:23:23. > :23:25.failings which have resulted in this.

:23:26. > :23:29.Joining me now is Sir Mark Potter who's a former judge of the court

:23:30. > :23:31.of Appeal, President of the High Court Family Division

:23:32. > :23:38.and President of the Court of Protection.

:23:39. > :23:51.Your response to the fact that this particular family court judge has

:23:52. > :23:55.released these details publicly? My response is that he in turn is

:23:56. > :24:00.responding to the constant demand over the last ten years or so for

:24:01. > :24:04.the family division, particularly in matters of high importance to make

:24:05. > :24:11.its proceedings public, and to lead to increased identification of

:24:12. > :24:14.persons involved. Pertaining to the proper protection of children. That

:24:15. > :24:23.is something which so far as I can see the judge has done in this case,

:24:24. > :24:27.but we may have questions to ask. The call from some that the CPS

:24:28. > :24:30.should look again at whether criminal proceedings should take

:24:31. > :24:36.place, what do you say to that? There is no objection to that

:24:37. > :24:45.happening. A note of warning, the judgment today, I have not yet read

:24:46. > :24:50.it, but it was on the 13th of last year that the CPS made a statement

:24:51. > :24:56.that it was not going to prosecute in this case. That acts as a

:24:57. > :25:03.releasing feature, so that the judge who hitherto has to be careful about

:25:04. > :25:07.what he publicises, because they may prejudice the criminal proceedings,

:25:08. > :25:12.he will then proceed on the basis of what police have said. So far as

:25:13. > :25:16.this judge was concerned, he was obliged for the purposes of the care

:25:17. > :25:19.proceedings, the authorities were seeking to take away the children

:25:20. > :25:25.from the parents, to make findings on whether or not the father had

:25:26. > :25:30.committed the offence of assault with which he was charged, and the

:25:31. > :25:34.burden of proof is the balance of probabilities. That is not to say

:25:35. > :25:37.that in any case where the judge decides on the balance of

:25:38. > :25:41.probability that you may not be quite satisfied, even on the

:25:42. > :25:44.criminal burden that has been made out, but he does not have to go on

:25:45. > :25:51.and say so, I'm not in the mind of the judge, I have seen the evidence,

:25:52. > :25:54.which is extremely strong, and this particular judge is highly thought

:25:55. > :25:59.of, as being a very able but also progressive judge, in a matter of

:26:00. > :26:06.operating as so far as is possible with the press so long as it does

:26:07. > :26:08.not at first the of litigants involved. The father of Poppi

:26:09. > :26:13.Worthington has denied any wrongdoing, he says he did not

:26:14. > :26:17.sexually assaulted his 13-month-old daughter shortly before she died.

:26:18. > :26:25.The conclusion that the family judge has come to... Justice Peter

:26:26. > :26:30.Jackson... On the balance of probabilities, her father had

:26:31. > :26:35.sexually assaulted this baby before she died. How does it help to say

:26:36. > :26:39.that publicly, when the CPS has already said there will be no

:26:40. > :26:46.criminal proceedings against this man? Abbasid helped to say publicly?

:26:47. > :26:51.It brings out into The Open what the circumstances are, question always

:26:52. > :26:57.is, should the judgment be published, the question is whether

:26:58. > :27:01.it should be referred to as a comedy throughout, or any or all of them

:27:02. > :27:06.should be identified. -- should be referred to as A, B and C

:27:07. > :27:11.throughout. The reaction from the press is kind of ironic, for years

:27:12. > :27:14.they have been pressing, when I was president of the family division, I

:27:15. > :27:21.sought to take steps to meet the complaint, that there should be much

:27:22. > :27:25.further publicity and fresh air of public scrutiny should be allowed to

:27:26. > :27:30.blow over family proceedings, now, when it has reached this particular

:27:31. > :27:34.case, and that procedure is being followed, and the present president

:27:35. > :27:39.of the family division is in favour of open justice, suddenly how it is

:27:40. > :27:44.in just, that the press have identified to them somebody whose

:27:45. > :27:49.identity they have sought. And frequently seek in other situations.

:27:50. > :27:53.Perhaps it leaves this father in some kind of legal limbo, the CPS,

:27:54. > :27:59.the police, said there was not enough evidence to bring a charge,

:28:00. > :28:05.the CPS say there is no chance of realistic conviction. But the judge

:28:06. > :28:10.concludes that this man sexually assaulted his daughter. That is the

:28:11. > :28:14.judge's task in the face of the evidence in front of him, which I

:28:15. > :28:22.may say, having seen it, is the strongest possible kind. It is not

:28:23. > :28:28.disputed but within one hour, during which he was simply in the care of

:28:29. > :28:38.the father, this child suffered injury. Signs of injury, bleeding

:28:39. > :28:45.from the nose, and from the behind, and there is very little surprise

:28:46. > :28:49.that the judge held as he did. I am merely commenting upon what seems to

:28:50. > :28:53.be the strength of the case as the judge found it was indeed a strong

:28:54. > :28:58.case. Will we see more opening up of this particular division of the

:28:59. > :29:04.legal system? The trend is to be as open as possible, and under the

:29:05. > :29:09.present president, it is moving towards that. I would say we are

:29:10. > :29:14.getting to a situation, and Babs this case is a symptom of it, people

:29:15. > :29:19.are questioning whether it may go too far, whether there should be a

:29:20. > :29:23.rowing back. -- and perhaps this case is a symptom. Steps have been

:29:24. > :29:27.taken so far, they have been taken not only with the approval of but

:29:28. > :29:31.with the urging of the press, and it has been treated as a matter of open

:29:32. > :29:34.justice as to whether family proceedings should take place in

:29:35. > :29:40.private as they used to do in the past, or should be publicised. Thank

:29:41. > :29:43.you very much for speaking with us. There has been an inquest, there

:29:44. > :29:47.will be a fresh inquest, ordered by the Attorney General, ordered into

:29:48. > :29:51.the death of Poppi Worthington, that is expected later this year,

:29:52. > :29:55.Independent Police Complaints Commission is investigating Cumbria

:29:56. > :29:57.police for the investigations they carried out in the months after

:29:58. > :30:15.Poppi Worthington's death. And a little later in the programme

:30:16. > :30:18.we'll hear how children's lives could be being put at risk by family

:30:19. > :30:20.courts when they order young people to remain in contact with abusive

:30:21. > :30:25.parents - that's according to Women's Aid. We'll have the details.

:30:26. > :30:30.Unemployment in the UK has fallen again. Our business correspondent

:30:31. > :30:33.Andy Verity can tell us more. 5.1%, lowest rate in a long time, partly

:30:34. > :30:44.because the number of people that are working, the population in work

:30:45. > :30:48.has grown. The workforce grew by 580,000 people, most of them were

:30:49. > :30:52.migrant workers from the rest of the European Union, the swell the

:30:53. > :30:55.workforce, the interesting thing, earnings are not growing as they

:30:56. > :31:02.were, the average pay rise is slowing down, excluding bonuses, up

:31:03. > :31:05.by just 1.9%. This is looking at the three months from September to

:31:06. > :31:09.November and comparing them to the year before. A few months ago we

:31:10. > :31:13.would doing better than that, chunky pay rises, inflation on the floor.

:31:14. > :31:21.Inflation is ticking up and pay rises are ticking down.

:31:22. > :31:36.Is that 5.1% figure in a decade? The best or lowest since figure, yes,

:31:37. > :31:41.the lowest since before the crisis. Since 2008. Anything else? These

:31:42. > :31:46.figures are showing the slowdown in action. This is not is what is

:31:47. > :31:52.supposed to happen. Without boring you with too much theory, the

:31:53. > :31:55.Phillips curve means if unemployment gets low enough, pay rises are

:31:56. > :32:01.supposed to take off, but that keeps on not happening. The Bank of

:32:02. > :32:07.England's theory is saying when unemployment gets low enough, you

:32:08. > :32:11.reach a critical point. Mark Carney said he would not think of raising

:32:12. > :32:15.interest rates unless it got below 7%. Now it is 5.1 and they are not

:32:16. > :32:19.interest rates unless it got below raising interest rates, so that

:32:20. > :32:22.theory is in question. Firstly, there is less union bargaining

:32:23. > :32:28.power, so they cannot push wages up like they used to. Employers are

:32:29. > :32:33.saying, inflation is on the floor, why should I pay you 3% because you

:32:34. > :32:36.are still getting a real terms pay rise. But that real terms pay rise

:32:37. > :32:37.unfortunately looks like it is shrinking.

:32:38. > :32:42.And we'll be speaking about these figures to the Minister of State

:32:43. > :32:50.for Employment, Priti Patel, a little later at 10 o'clock.

:32:51. > :32:53.At the height of the refugee crisis last year lots of you told us that

:32:54. > :32:56.you'd be prepared to open up your home to take in migrants

:32:57. > :32:59.Next we'll meet someone who actually did that.

:33:00. > :33:02.Karen is a foster carer in Yorkshire who decided to offer a home

:33:03. > :33:05.to Javed, a 14-year-old who fled Afghanistan on his own to escape

:33:06. > :33:10.Javad isn't his real name, but he's one of thousands

:33:11. > :33:12.of unaccompanied minors who arrive in Europe on their own

:33:13. > :33:16.Save the Children want the Government to take

:33:17. > :33:22.But first our reporter Nicola Beckford met Karen,

:33:23. > :33:25.her 7-year-old son Blake and Javed, who speaks little English.

:33:26. > :33:27.His identity is protected because his asylum application

:33:28. > :33:51.Can you just chop the onion for me, please?

:33:52. > :33:54.But mind your fingers, won't you? Just be careful.

:33:55. > :33:57.How was football, Javed? Football?

:33:58. > :34:00.Football, was it good? Very good.

:34:01. > :34:03.Did you score any goals? Three.

:34:04. > :34:07.Were you playing outside or inside? Outside.

:34:08. > :34:20.This is yummy. OK, thank you.

:34:21. > :34:24.Sit on the step and watch if you want.

:34:25. > :34:28.I got a phone call to see if I wanted to look after a refugee,

:34:29. > :34:31.13-year-old boy, which at the beginning of my fostering

:34:32. > :34:34.journey I never thought I would end up looking after a teenage boy.

:34:35. > :34:40.But without hesitation I would foster a refugee again,

:34:41. > :34:42.and foster a teenage boy, because it's been nothing

:34:43. > :34:46.but positive, the impact on the family.

:34:47. > :34:50.The way he's just fitted in, he's a lovely, happy boy.

:34:51. > :34:54.He's brought nothing but happiness, really.

:34:55. > :35:01.Sit down properly. Is this mushroom?

:35:02. > :35:20.TRANSLATION: I came from France to UK not like a normal passenger,

:35:21. > :35:24.Because I had no documents to the show to the driver

:35:25. > :35:27.and I had no money or travel tickets.

:35:28. > :35:31.Every day we went to train station looking for a chance of how to get

:35:32. > :35:38.I was nervous, the things you think...

:35:39. > :35:41.I was worried about having a 13-year-old boy in the house,

:35:42. > :35:44.how will I manage if there is any challenging behaviour?

:35:45. > :35:49.Knowing he's grown up in war, will that affect his behaviour?

:35:50. > :35:52.So I was very nervous, because there's just myself

:35:53. > :35:56.and my seven-year-old son in the house.

:35:57. > :36:01.But I spoke to the previous foster carer where he'd been for a few

:36:02. > :36:05.weeks and she reassured me what a lovely boy he was.

:36:06. > :36:08.And we met him first, he came for tea and we had

:36:09. > :36:23.I knew from the minute I met him that it was a perfect fit.

:36:24. > :36:29.What's the difference between living in Afghanistan and living here?

:36:30. > :36:32.TRANSLATION: Life is totally different.

:36:33. > :36:36.But I want to say something about the people of the UK.

:36:37. > :36:39.Their behaviour is very good with us.

:36:40. > :36:41.They are very ethical and they respect us,

:36:42. > :36:47.our religion and culture, and I really like that.

:36:48. > :36:49.In Afghanistan, our life is very basic and simple.

:36:50. > :36:55.There is a dishwasher, washing machine, cooking appliances.

:36:56. > :37:01.Each and every thing surprises me. Everything is different and amazing.

:37:02. > :37:06.Just him getting used to our ways and us getting used to his ways.

:37:07. > :37:10.He has a halal diet, so it's sorting food for him and just finding out

:37:11. > :37:15.He's so polite that I could tell sometimes he wasn't enjoying

:37:16. > :37:33.Does he have good English? If he doesn't, how is that working?

:37:34. > :37:36.His English is getting better every day.

:37:37. > :37:42.He works really hard at school and really wants to learn English.

:37:43. > :37:45.We spend time going through books and playing word games

:37:46. > :37:51.He's just surrounded by it, so he does pick it up very quickly.

:37:52. > :37:55.Do you want cereal? Do you want toast?

:37:56. > :37:58.Show him what cereal was. Sometimes we've made mistakes.

:37:59. > :38:02.Do you want pizza or pasta? He said pizza but he meant pasta.

:38:03. > :38:09.So there's been a few mistakes along the way.

:38:10. > :38:14.TRANSLATION: Karen is treating me like a son.

:38:15. > :38:17.She has given me a place in her own family.

:38:18. > :38:20.Not only in her family but also in her heart.

:38:21. > :38:26.She provides me with all the opportunities so I will be

:38:27. > :38:29.a good person in the future and a good young boy.

:38:30. > :38:32.We have a Home Office interview coming up,

:38:33. > :38:37.He doesn't yet feel secure because he has no idea what's

:38:38. > :38:44.I don't feel secure because I don't know what's going to happen.

:38:45. > :38:47.I'm worried about the interview, I'm worried what's going

:38:48. > :38:49.to happen, if he can stay after this interview,

:38:50. > :38:54.He just wants a peaceful life with no war.

:38:55. > :38:58.He's like a son to me and I don't want...to lose him.

:38:59. > :39:12.I've got two sons now. My son loves him and I love him.

:39:13. > :39:17.I want him to be safe and secure, and to stay with us as a family.

:39:18. > :39:51.TRANSLATION: I'm quite happy here. It's a different country.

:39:52. > :39:55.Here, you are put into foster care and become

:39:56. > :40:01.If it was possible to adopt him, I would adopt him.

:40:02. > :40:07.To give him the support and security.

:40:08. > :40:09.He said he has nightmares, he said the journey here

:40:10. > :40:13.was horrendous but he said it would all be worth it if he knew

:40:14. > :40:18.Just to take that stress away from him, because

:40:19. > :40:20.the insecurity of not knowing what your future holds...

:40:21. > :40:23.He's happy here, doing really well at school.

:40:24. > :40:25.He's got friends. He's playing football.

:40:26. > :40:30.He's got a nice, good, happy life here.

:40:31. > :40:38.I feel like he could contribute a lot.

:40:39. > :40:41.TRANSLATION: I'm quite optimistic about my future.

:40:42. > :40:49.It will be very bright and I'm very keen to become a footballer.

:40:50. > :40:52.Some people might think, well, there's loads of kids in this

:40:53. > :40:55.country who need families, foster families.

:40:56. > :41:04.I just think every child needs looking after.

:41:05. > :41:08.They need help just as much as children in this country.

:41:09. > :41:15.Yeah, sometimes I worry that I've only got four years

:41:16. > :41:21.left with him and it is a big fear that I have.

:41:22. > :41:26.I'm not sure how aware he is that that's a possibility.

:41:27. > :41:31.Yes, it does bother me. It worries me.

:41:32. > :41:34.It would just be like losing a son, really -

:41:35. > :41:41.I've got two sons now and I couldn't bear to think...

:41:42. > :41:43.He's got a home for life here and I want

:41:44. > :41:52.And you can watch that film again on our programme

:41:53. > :42:08.After half past ten we will hear more from the Save the Children call

:42:09. > :42:15.for the government to take in 3000 extra child refugees. Now it is time

:42:16. > :42:20.for the weather. Freezing cold this morning, I could see Orion as I

:42:21. > :42:23.walked out of the House. Yes, we have got a thermometer and the

:42:24. > :42:29.temperature has been going up and down in a short space of time in the

:42:30. > :42:35.car. When I set off this morning at the top of the hill it was close to

:42:36. > :42:41.freezing and at the bottom it was -7 or minus eight. Cold air is dense

:42:42. > :42:46.and dense air tends to fall to the bottom of valleys like this. This is

:42:47. > :42:54.where we saw those temperatures in the morning of -7 degrees. At the

:42:55. > :42:59.top of the hill we have higher temperatures by night, the opposite

:43:00. > :43:03.of what you see. My car had a bit of a shock when it got to the bottom of

:43:04. > :43:08.the valley. But at the weekend warm air sweeps in and it is almost a

:43:09. > :43:19.teacher were there. A short cold spell, but we are not there yet.

:43:20. > :43:27.It got down to -11 degrees in the north of Scotland. A fair bit of

:43:28. > :43:32.cloud in Scotland this afternoon. Some brightness, but not a lot. More

:43:33. > :43:38.chance of sunshine in Northern Ireland. For most of England and

:43:39. > :43:43.Wales it is another chilly day with highs of two or three degrees. Where

:43:44. > :43:49.you have got freezing fog patches it will not get much above zero. The

:43:50. > :43:53.frost returns with a vengeance tonight. The lowest temperatures in

:43:54. > :44:00.Central and eastern areas. This is where we will see some fog patches

:44:01. > :44:06.forming as well. In the rural areas we will get down to -6 or minus

:44:07. > :44:11.seven. Further west it is not so cold because of that cloud and

:44:12. > :44:15.patchy rain. The weather front is beginning to gear up and we are

:44:16. > :44:21.going to see an Atlantic influence which sweeps in at the weekend. The

:44:22. > :44:26.first sign of that will be on Thursday. It will be pushing into

:44:27. > :44:34.the western fringes. There will be high snow on the high ground of

:44:35. > :44:40.Scotland. As we go through Thursday night and into Friday it is all

:44:41. > :44:46.change because proper wet and windy weather will sweep in from the west.

:44:47. > :44:51.For most of us it is the wind and the rain which we will notice. That

:44:52. > :44:56.clears through and then you will notice that the temperatures will

:44:57. > :45:00.bounce back. This weekend we will see further frontal systems coming

:45:01. > :45:06.in off the Atlantic and it is business as usual if you like with

:45:07. > :45:10.further spells of rain. We will see milder weather. We have lost the

:45:11. > :45:15.blue colour and we gain the yellow and the orange at the weekend. It is

:45:16. > :45:21.a short cold snap because at the weekend it will be a lot milder. It

:45:22. > :45:26.will be breezy at times with some rain and some sunshine. We are not

:45:27. > :45:35.there yet. A couple of cold days to come.

:45:36. > :45:40.Hello it's Wednesday, its 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:45:41. > :45:43.welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

:45:44. > :45:52.investigation into the horrific death

:45:53. > :45:54.of 13 month old Poppi Worthingon.

:45:55. > :45:56.A family court judge ruled she'd been sexually assaulted

:45:57. > :45:58.by her father shortly before her death.

:45:59. > :46:05.It is not disputed that this child suffered injury during the one-hour

:46:06. > :46:12.that it was in the care of the father.

:46:13. > :46:22.Also today, a mistake which led to a 10 year-old Muslim boy

:46:23. > :46:23.being quizzed by police

:46:24. > :46:27.after he wrote that his family lived

:46:28. > :46:29.in a 'terrorist house' we hear from the boy's family.

:46:30. > :46:33.at risk by family courts when they order young people

:46:34. > :46:35.to remain in contact with abusive parents?

:46:36. > :46:36.We'll hear one woman's heartbreaking story.

:46:37. > :46:39.Oscar winning actor Jamie Foxx has starred in a real-life drama -

:46:40. > :46:41.after rescuing a man from his burning vehicle.

:46:42. > :46:44.I do not look on it as heroic, I just had to do something. It all

:46:45. > :46:51.worked out. Unemployment stands at an eight year

:46:52. > :47:01.low as the jobless total fell

:47:02. > :47:02.by 99,000 But official figures show

:47:03. > :47:06.average earnings are down, At least 19 people are reported

:47:07. > :47:15.to have been killed after militants storm a university

:47:16. > :47:17.in northwestern Pakistan. The Defence Secretary,

:47:18. > :47:19.Michael Fallon, will urge his harder at what he calls the "head

:47:20. > :47:24.of the snake" in the fight against the so-called

:47:25. > :47:26.Islamic State in Syria. Brussels considers changes

:47:27. > :47:28.to the rules that require refugees to claim asylum

:47:29. > :47:30.in the first country E.On is to reduce its standard gas

:47:31. > :47:37.price from next month of the big energy companies

:47:38. > :47:41.for failing to pass on falling and Wales have told this programme

:47:42. > :47:46.that British people's lives are being put at risk

:47:47. > :47:48.because officers aren't being routinely armed

:47:49. > :47:49.with taser guns. It's thought the National Police

:47:50. > :47:52.Chiefs Council is meeting in Surrey A 10-year-old Muslim boy

:47:53. > :48:19.who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house" when he meant

:48:20. > :48:21.to say "terraced house" during an English lesson

:48:22. > :48:23.at school has been And Donald Trump gets

:48:24. > :48:27.the backing of Sarah Palin, the populist ex-governor

:48:28. > :48:28.of Alaska and former Republican vice-presidential

:48:29. > :48:32.candidate. The last of the non-league sides

:48:33. > :48:35.have been knocked out of the FA Cup, Eastleigh were the last one

:48:36. > :48:40.standing, they gave it a real go at Bolton Wanderers, going down 3-2,

:48:41. > :48:45.taking the lead through Joe Partington, the two sides went into

:48:46. > :48:49.the break locked at 2-2, but the side 53 places above them through

:48:50. > :48:54.the leagues eventually went through, Darren Pratley urged the replay in

:48:55. > :48:58.the first match with an equaliser, this time it was the winner, leaving

:48:59. > :49:04.Eastleigh to wonder what might have been. We have been outstanding, the

:49:05. > :49:06.cup run we have been on. The two performances against the

:49:07. > :49:10.championship outfit have been incredible.

:49:11. > :49:17.We were very unlucky, the boys have dug in deep, they showed great

:49:18. > :49:21.commitment and character, the words go on. They really have done it

:49:22. > :49:27.tonight. Here is commitment for you, over 200 Carlisle fans made the 700

:49:28. > :49:31.mile round trip to fellow to league side -- fellow League 2 side Yeovil,

:49:32. > :49:35.it was worth it, I got a home tie against Everton next, in a penalty

:49:36. > :49:39.shoot out, that spot kick from Mark Ellis worth a quarter of ?1 million

:49:40. > :49:44.to Carlisle, it will be the live match on television, all of the

:49:45. > :49:48.goals from last night's games are on the BBC Sport website. In Scotland,

:49:49. > :49:52.fans at Celtic Park got their money 's worth, Hamilton fans may have

:49:53. > :49:58.asked for their money back, it finished 8-1, champions moved six

:49:59. > :50:02.points clear at the top of the premiership, 5-0 up inside 34

:50:03. > :50:06.minutes, Leigh Griffiths scored a hat-trick. Former tennis player who

:50:07. > :50:10.is now coaching says that match fixing is a secret that everyone

:50:11. > :50:14.knows on tour, and the authorities know who is doing it. Following a

:50:15. > :50:19.BBC and Buzzfeed investigation into the allegations of illegal betting

:50:20. > :50:23.and fixing in the sport. The tennis integrity unit has already denied

:50:24. > :50:30.that it has suppressed evidence of fixing and corruption and has asked

:50:31. > :50:33.the player to come forward with information. The man who wishes to

:50:34. > :50:34.remain anonymous, told the BBC that the problem isn't just at the lower

:50:35. > :50:41.levels of the game. When I the problem isn't just at the lower

:50:42. > :50:45.to believe it was a few years ago, the guy told me the next result of

:50:46. > :50:49.the next two tournaments, he told me exactly who was going to win and how

:50:50. > :50:55.it was going to be. I thought that he was bragging about it... To make

:50:56. > :51:01.me fall for his game... Then I was laughing when every match that he

:51:02. > :51:05.was telling me about, it was the way that he had told me. I'm talking

:51:06. > :51:11.about Master series! Some big names there. Against this backdrop, the

:51:12. > :51:19.first grand slam of the year, the Australian open, continues. It's the

:51:20. > :51:21.third day in Melbourne. World number one Serena Williams is looking to

:51:22. > :51:23.equal Steffi Graf's Open-era record of 22 Grand Slam titles And the

:51:24. > :51:26.defending champion is into the third round easily, after seeing off her

:51:27. > :51:31.Taiwanese opponent. World number three Roger Federer needed barely

:51:32. > :51:33.more than an hour and a half to beat practice partner Alexandr

:51:34. > :51:36.Dolgopolov, Novak Djokovic is on court now, against Quentin Alyce

:51:37. > :51:55.from France. Thank you for your messages,

:51:56. > :51:57.particularly on Taser is, we were speaking with Steve white, chairman

:51:58. > :52:01.of the Police Federation, for England and Wales, is calling for

:52:02. > :52:06.police officers to be routinely armed with Tasers if they volunteer

:52:07. > :52:09.for training because of the terror threat, because he says police

:52:10. > :52:17.officers feel more vulnerable now, and effectively British lives will

:52:18. > :52:22.be at risk unless that happens. " police should not have Tasers, I do

:52:23. > :52:26.not trust them to use them safely and responsibly". " I agree, all

:52:27. > :52:32.police should carry Tasers, these are dangerous days, they must be

:52:33. > :52:37.able to protect themselves and Laura biding people". " we do not want

:52:38. > :52:41.Tasers to be more widely available to police, the public will be safer

:52:42. > :52:47.if police do not have them, they have already been misused in a

:52:48. > :52:50.number of cases." " black and majority people are bound to have

:52:51. > :52:53.Tasers used on them disproportionately. " You can get in

:52:54. > :53:09.touch in the usual ways. Unemployment is at an eight year

:53:10. > :53:16.low, as the latest figures show that the jobless total fell

:53:17. > :53:18.by 99,000 in the three

:53:19. > :53:20.months to November 2015. And though the number of people

:53:21. > :53:22.claiming benefits is down, Let's talk now with Employment

:53:23. > :53:26.Minister Priti Patel MP, who is in Westminster

:53:27. > :53:39.for us this morning. Quite an astonishing figure, how do

:53:40. > :53:43.you respond to that? An implant is at pre-recession lows, we have the

:53:44. > :53:47.highest rate of employment, 74%, this is the result of the economic

:53:48. > :53:51.decisions, the economic plan, that this government has had, the fact we

:53:52. > :53:56.have focused and concentrated on rebuilding our economy and making

:53:57. > :54:01.the economy one of the strongest in the G-7. We have one of the highest

:54:02. > :54:06.rates of employment on record but we are now also seeing that wages are

:54:07. > :54:10.growing, 2.1%, and of course, wages are now higher than prerecession

:54:11. > :54:14.level as well. Average earnings are slowing down. We are seeing average

:54:15. > :54:22.earnings outstripping inflation... As I have said, we have real wage

:54:23. > :54:26.growth, we have wages growing at 2.1%, which is a good rate of

:54:27. > :54:31.growth, and that has exceeded prerecession levels in terms of wage

:54:32. > :54:36.growth, that means more money in people's pockets and more economic

:54:37. > :54:42.security. Why are average earnings slowing down? We would not say

:54:43. > :54:47.that... Less than the last set of figures. We will not comment on

:54:48. > :54:52.trends, we have had sustained and in continuous increases in wages over

:54:53. > :54:56.successive periods of time, the point is, wages are now at a higher

:54:57. > :55:00.level than they were before the recession. We have more people in

:55:01. > :55:05.work than before the recession, unemployment levels are lower than

:55:06. > :55:11.they were, now, compared to eight years ago, and we are seeing more

:55:12. > :55:15.jobs being created. 75% of the jobs that have now been created our

:55:16. > :55:19.full-time jobs, more women in work, more young people in work, and this

:55:20. > :55:23.is a reflection of a growing economy and the fact we have the right

:55:24. > :55:29.economic conditions for businesses to grow and expand and for the more

:55:30. > :55:33.people being implied. Can I ask you about the number of European workers

:55:34. > :55:36.in this country, just after the coalition came to power, the

:55:37. > :55:41.Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats in 2010, there was 1.2

:55:42. > :55:48.million European workers in the UK, for July to September last year,

:55:49. > :55:52.more than 2 million European workers in this country. Is that too many?

:55:53. > :55:56.We have always been very clear that when it comes to employment in this

:55:57. > :56:00.country, we have one of the highest rates of British people in

:56:01. > :56:03.employment, and when it comes to people from other parts of the

:56:04. > :56:09.world, Europe in particular, coming to work in the United Kingdom, they

:56:10. > :56:12.work here, they are contributing to the economy, that is absolutely

:56:13. > :56:17.important, it really is, the fact they are an employment, and paying

:56:18. > :56:21.taxes and contributing to the economy, that is a reflection of the

:56:22. > :56:24.growing economy that we have and the strength of the economy. The

:56:25. > :56:31.strength of the labour market. -- the fact they are in employment. Any

:56:32. > :56:36.one day of the week we have in excess of three quarters of a

:56:37. > :56:39.million vacancies in job centres, so we have a record number of

:56:40. > :56:42.employment vacancies, bringing you back to the point, that is a

:56:43. > :56:46.reflection of a strong and healthy and growing economy, and with a

:56:47. > :56:51.strong economy, we have more employment being created. Of course

:56:52. > :56:56.we will have more people in work and as we have seen, you have

:56:57. > :57:00.highlighted yourself, people from Europe in the United Kingdom are in

:57:01. > :57:03.employment, they are working and contributing to the economy. Can I

:57:04. > :57:09.ask you about the European referendum. Are you going to

:57:10. > :57:15.campaign to leave? I have been clear, not just this morning, but I

:57:16. > :57:21.have repeatedly said, our manifesto is to have a referendum by the end

:57:22. > :57:29.of 2017 but also renegotiate our relationship with the European Union

:57:30. > :57:32.is the status quo is not an option, the Prime Minister is focused on

:57:33. > :57:35.renegotiating our relationship, fundamentally, it is not for me to

:57:36. > :57:40.decide whether or not we stay in or leave, it is for the British people

:57:41. > :57:43.to decide, that is right and what we said at the time of the general

:57:44. > :57:46.election, those are the manifesto commitments, that we will give a

:57:47. > :57:49.referendum and ultimately they will decide whether or not we should stay

:57:50. > :57:54.in Europe or leave the European Union. The go-ahead has been given

:57:55. > :57:56.for ministers to make their own decision about whether they campaign

:57:57. > :58:01.and which side they will be campaigning for, I will ask you if

:58:02. > :58:06.you are campaigning to leave Europe? I want a renegotiation, I am

:58:07. > :58:14.supporting that, I will be clear about that and I will continue to

:58:15. > :58:18.say that... There is four areas... I will not give a running commentary

:58:19. > :58:25.and speculate... I'm asking about your own thought process. The Prime

:58:26. > :58:28.Minister is leading on the renegotiation, the reforms we all

:58:29. > :58:31.want to see in terms of the UK relationship with the European

:58:32. > :58:35.Union, and of course, he will declare, he will announce that when

:58:36. > :58:40.he comes back from a future European Council, and people will make up

:58:41. > :58:43.their own minds and ultimately, the British public will decide whether

:58:44. > :58:45.or not we stay in Europe or leave the European Union. Thank you very

:58:46. > :59:22.much for speaking with us. Actor Jamie Frost has pulled a man

:59:23. > :59:26.from a burning car. He helped to drag the man out of his car, the

:59:27. > :59:34.latest boat with police and the father of the man that he helped. I

:59:35. > :59:41.do not look at it as heroic. I had to do something. Now Oscar-winning

:59:42. > :59:43.actor Jamie Foxx often plays super villains and antiheroes on screen in

:59:44. > :59:46.films like Spiderman or Django unchained - but now he's played the

:59:47. > :59:48.role of a hero after he pulled a man from aburning truck moments before

:59:49. > :59:51.it became engulfed in flames near his Southern California home. I told

:59:52. > :59:54.him, as we were talking, I said, listen, as I am getting him out, I

:59:55. > :59:57.said, you have got to help me, I do not want to leave you. I said, you

:59:58. > :00:00.have got angels around you full top Police said the vehicle went off the

:00:01. > :00:02.road then went into a ditch, rolling over multiple times and becoming

:00:03. > :00:05.engulfed in flames with a male driver trapped inside. The actor

:00:06. > :00:07.said he heard the crash from his house, called the emergency

:00:08. > :00:10.services, and ran to the scene. He then helped drag the man out of his

:00:11. > :00:13.car. He later spoke to police and the father of the man he helped. I

:00:14. > :00:16.was just thinking, my goodness, my God, he did not have to do a thing.

:00:17. > :00:19.We all hope that we could do something when the time is there,

:00:20. > :00:22.but the question is, do we act? Do we fear for our own lives? He did

:00:23. > :00:24.not fear for his own life, he did act. We have some pictures of the

:00:25. > :00:28.rescue. Jamie Foxx ran from his home, to that accident, and managed

:00:29. > :00:31.to help get the man out who was trapped inside, before the vehicle

:00:32. > :00:39.became engulfed in flames. Coming up: we hear from the family

:00:40. > :00:43.of a 10-year old Muslim boy who was questioned by police after he

:00:44. > :00:46.mistakenly wrote that he lived in a terraced house instead of a terraced

:00:47. > :00:54.house(!) Children's lives are being put

:00:55. > :00:56.at risk by family courts when they order young people

:00:57. > :00:58.to remain in contact That's according to Women's Aid

:00:59. > :01:02.who're launching a new campaign aimed at putting what they call

:01:03. > :01:07."the safety of children back" at the heart

:01:08. > :01:09.of the family court. They say that 19 children have been

:01:10. > :01:11.intentionally killed by a parent who was also a known perpetrator

:01:12. > :01:14.of domestic abuse between 2005 and 2015 and that unsafe child

:01:15. > :01:16.contact arrangements could have Hilary Fisher is director

:01:17. > :01:21.of policy for Women's Aid. Jane Wilson is domestic

:01:22. > :01:23.abuse lead at Resolution, an organisation of more than 6,000

:01:24. > :01:32.family lawyers in England and Wales. But first let's speak

:01:33. > :01:37.to Claire Throssell. She joins us from our

:01:38. > :01:42.studio in Salford. were killed by her former partner

:01:43. > :02:00.Darren Sykes in October 2014. I'm grateful for your time. You were

:02:01. > :02:05.married to this man for 15 years, I think I'm right in saying that he

:02:06. > :02:09.became controlling and emotionally abusive after your children were

:02:10. > :02:18.born, can you give us an insight into his behaviour?

:02:19. > :02:24.He had a really bad tempered that he could not control and he had had

:02:25. > :02:29.management of anger sessions that helped him a little bit, but after

:02:30. > :02:33.the boys were born in the controlling behaviour happened again

:02:34. > :02:38.and it got worse and worse. He was emotionally abusive to the boys and

:02:39. > :02:45.quite physical. By 2014, the marriage was over.

:02:46. > :02:53.You took the decision to leave, what was his behaviour after that? It got

:02:54. > :02:58.worse and he tried to use the children as possessions. But the

:02:59. > :03:06.bond was not there and the boys were very frightened of him. He said the

:03:07. > :03:10.year before that in a tragic incident a father had shot his

:03:11. > :03:15.children and then himself and he said he understood how the father

:03:16. > :03:21.had felt. What did you do about that when he said that? As soon as I went

:03:22. > :03:27.to my solicitor I raised it straightaway and it was the same

:03:28. > :03:34.with social services and I continually said that I was worried

:03:35. > :03:38.for the boys' well-being and safety. You went to the organisation that is

:03:39. > :03:46.the voice of children in the family courts who represent the child in

:03:47. > :03:50.any process like that. Yes. What was the action of social services when

:03:51. > :03:57.you said you were worried about his state and possibly fearful? They

:03:58. > :04:00.came out and did an assessment and Paul had made the disclosure at

:04:01. > :04:06.school about an incident that had happened with his dad and contact

:04:07. > :04:10.was completely stopped. I took him through the family Court in July

:04:11. > :04:19.because he still had parental rights, he was their father. There

:04:20. > :04:24.were taking it as more of a custody battle rather than the children

:04:25. > :04:28.being really at risk. They were still well fed, they were attending

:04:29. > :04:32.school, they were achieving at school, I looked after them, and

:04:33. > :04:38.they did not take it as seriously as they should have done. Can I ask you

:04:39. > :04:45.about the day your boys went to see their father and the day they lost

:04:46. > :04:48.their lives? Yes. Can you tell our audience about what happened? I know

:04:49. > :04:54.it is incredibly difficult and I know you can talk about this, which

:04:55. > :05:01.is why we invited you onto the programme, but I appreciate it is

:05:02. > :05:04.very difficult. Yes. The Wednesday morning of the 22nd of October

:05:05. > :05:10.started out like any other day. I dropped the boys off at school and I

:05:11. > :05:15.said, I love you, just like every day and they replied like they

:05:16. > :05:22.always did and they were going on and access visit at two hours that

:05:23. > :05:26.night. Paul did not want to go, but I persuaded him and encouraged him

:05:27. > :05:33.to go because there was a court order in place. I was at work and I

:05:34. > :05:39.got a call from the organisation and they said, keep an eye on the boys.

:05:40. > :05:44.The interview with my ex-husband had not gone very well with them and he

:05:45. > :05:51.had been aggressive and he had kept the officer from leaving the room. I

:05:52. > :05:56.got home, I had missed the boys by about five minutes. Then the

:05:57. > :06:02.doorbell rang and I had just finished my tea and my mum said,

:06:03. > :06:05.that is the boys back early. I said no, it cannot be, they would have

:06:06. > :06:10.run in and they would have run into my arms and it always did when they

:06:11. > :06:14.came back from a visit because they were nervous and frightened. I

:06:15. > :06:19.opened the door and there was a local police officer at the door and

:06:20. > :06:23.he had a serious look on his face and his lights were flashing and he

:06:24. > :06:29.said, there has been an incident at your former home involving the boys,

:06:30. > :06:36.there has been a fire. I said, he has done it. The police would not

:06:37. > :06:41.give any details, obviously, at that time. I got through to the

:06:42. > :06:49.Children's Hospital and when to the resuscitation room and I saw Paul

:06:50. > :06:56.having CPR on him. The consultant said, we are withdrawing treatment

:06:57. > :07:04.now, there is nothing more we can do for him. I held him in my arms and

:07:05. > :07:09.he looked at me and smiled. Then the light went out of his eyes and he

:07:10. > :07:15.fell asleep in my arms. So, I did not get to see how they were from

:07:16. > :07:21.the visit. The last time I saw them I was holding them as they died.

:07:22. > :07:25.Jack had tried to save his brother, tried to get him out of the attic,

:07:26. > :07:30.and he had come through the hatch of the attic and he was still conscious

:07:31. > :07:41.when the firemen finally entered the property because the House had been

:07:42. > :07:48.barricaded. His last words, were, he did it on purpose. It turned out to

:07:49. > :07:52.be his dying testament. I had to leave Paul in Sheffield Children's

:07:53. > :08:00.Hospital and go with Jack to the critical burns unit in Manchester.

:08:01. > :08:06.But five days later Jack had a cardiac arrest and he also died in

:08:07. > :08:15.my arms. It is unimaginable what you have experienced and utterly,

:08:16. > :08:20.utterly heartbreaking. I know a serious case review was carried out

:08:21. > :08:24.and it said your former husband's actions could not have been

:08:25. > :08:29.predicted and the evidence was not sufficient to make agencies believe

:08:30. > :08:36.he posed a threat to himself, to his children, to anybody. What did you

:08:37. > :08:45.make of that? Well, my answer to that, from the serious case review,

:08:46. > :08:50.is if the officer had not felt scared in his presence, how did they

:08:51. > :08:55.think my children would feel on their own with him when they were

:08:56. > :09:02.just 12 and nine, just little boys. I want to bring in Hilary Fisher,

:09:03. > :09:09.also Jane Wilson from Resolution, an organisation of success and family

:09:10. > :09:14.lawyers in England and Wales. This case is just unimaginable for most

:09:15. > :09:19.people watching. Tell us about the campaign that you are launching

:09:20. > :09:26.which will mean perhaps cases like that will not happen. Absolutely. I

:09:27. > :09:30.want to thank Claire so much for being able to tell us her horrific

:09:31. > :09:39.story. Unfortunately, she is not alone. We have lodged a report today

:09:40. > :09:44.and most of them are avoidable deaths. The direction which requires

:09:45. > :09:51.courts to look into whether or not there has been domestic violence and

:09:52. > :09:55.if it has put the safety of the children and the usually non-abusing

:09:56. > :10:02.mother, has to be put at the height of this. It needs to happen

:10:03. > :10:05.everywhere. We need a national, independent oversight to ensure that

:10:06. > :10:13.this happens because these deaths should not be happening. In terms of

:10:14. > :10:17.the family court system, it is adversarial, it can be adversarial.

:10:18. > :10:22.Sometimes allegations of domestic abuse are levelled at one parent or

:10:23. > :10:26.the other in order to stop that parents seeing the children.

:10:27. > :10:29.Sometimes those allegations are not true, that happens. How is the

:10:30. > :10:35.family court judge supposed to work out what is the truth? They have got

:10:36. > :10:40.to make a decision as to whether what has been alleged has happened.

:10:41. > :10:45.If the alleged perpetrator admits it, then that issue is resolved at

:10:46. > :10:49.that point as to whether there has been the abuse. Otherwise there has

:10:50. > :10:54.to be a hearing and in effect a trial in which the judge listens to

:10:55. > :10:58.the evidence of the sufferer and the evidence of the alleged perpetrator

:10:59. > :11:02.and make a decision. What is concerning now that legal aid has

:11:03. > :11:08.been reduced if there is the risk that domestic abuse sufferers will

:11:09. > :11:11.be in court without representation and the alleged perpetrators will be

:11:12. > :11:15.there without representation and the way evidence is tested is by

:11:16. > :11:21.cross-examination by one of the other. I domestic abuse sufferer has

:11:22. > :11:26.reduced confidence levels because of years of abuse. It will be very

:11:27. > :11:31.difficult for them to carry cross-examination themselves.

:11:32. > :11:36.Sometimes we do not even get to a hearing like that. Clare reported

:11:37. > :11:43.her concerns to shelter workers and others and there was no hearing. How

:11:44. > :11:48.could action had been taken at the time when Claire had reported her

:11:49. > :11:51.fears? You have to think about what is happening when somebody talks

:11:52. > :11:57.about domestic abuse and ensure that people hearing is understand what

:11:58. > :12:01.the person is talking about. There is a new offence of course of

:12:02. > :12:05.control would get at the heart of domestic abuse and it is ongoing,

:12:06. > :12:12.incidents can be psychological and physical over a period of time.

:12:13. > :12:15.Women are suffering post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of this

:12:16. > :12:20.violence and they are expected to stand up in court and respond to

:12:21. > :12:26.that. We are saying look immediately and identify what is happening. We

:12:27. > :12:31.have a case in the criminal courts and in the family courts it is not

:12:32. > :12:37.being recognised or reduced. This idea that a violent man can still be

:12:38. > :12:45.a good father, this does seems to be lack of clarity in some courts. The

:12:46. > :12:51.view is they can still be a good dad if they are removed from the

:12:52. > :12:56.ex-partner? Yes, 12 of the perpetrators in our report continued

:12:57. > :13:00.the abuse after the separation. We know from organisations who work

:13:01. > :13:03.with families that perpetrators use the family courts to continue the

:13:04. > :13:09.abuse because it is about power and control. You have the judge saying

:13:10. > :13:15.this is an issue of custody and not recognising what is happening. There

:13:16. > :13:18.needs to be proper training. I have interviewed a number of family court

:13:19. > :13:26.judges who have recently left their position. They are not lofty people

:13:27. > :13:30.who are out of touch. They absolutely care most about the

:13:31. > :13:35.child. The child is at the forefront of their minds. They listen to what

:13:36. > :13:40.the children say. It is not happening in every case. The reason

:13:41. > :13:44.we are launching this group is that that is what the members of our

:13:45. > :13:51.group has said is the most important thing for survivors. There are 220

:13:52. > :13:55.organisations that run domestic violence services across England and

:13:56. > :13:58.this is what we hear about from survivors. There will be women

:13:59. > :14:02.listening to this who will be concerned about what is happening to

:14:03. > :14:08.them and I would ask them to call the helpline that we run in

:14:09. > :14:16.partnership with Refuge. There is help out there and we can help them.

:14:17. > :14:20.Jack never got his voice heard and the date Jack was supposed to be

:14:21. > :14:28.having his interview was the day he passed away in my arms. I did not

:14:29. > :14:32.know that. Clare, thank you for telling us that. I have messages for

:14:33. > :14:39.you from people watching you around the UK. This tweet says, I hope this

:14:40. > :14:43.woman gets justice for being so let down.

:14:44. > :14:47.I want to hug her. Tony says, is a loving parent that is the hardest

:14:48. > :14:51.story I have ever had to listen to, so tragic.

:14:52. > :14:56.Another tweet, I cannot believe what has happened to this woman. My heart

:14:57. > :15:01.is breaking for her, she is so brave.

:15:02. > :15:06.Kennedy says, this story shows what warm, generous people we are and

:15:07. > :15:10.when you give a child a chance, they grasp it.

:15:11. > :15:15.I cannot put into words the admiration for Claire's strength and

:15:16. > :15:24.resilience. Thank you for coming on to our programme. Thank you. Hilary

:15:25. > :15:33.Fisher, thank you, Jane Wilson, domestic abuse lead at Resolution.

:15:34. > :15:38.The independent chair of the safeguarding children board say they

:15:39. > :15:46.had carried out a review which said the death of the children was an

:15:47. > :15:47.unlawful killing and there was no knowledge of it being an

:15:48. > :15:59.identifiable risk. We hear from the family of a

:16:00. > :16:05.10-year-old Muslim boy who was quizzed by police after he

:16:06. > :16:08.mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house"

:16:09. > :16:31.instead of a "terraced house." Unemployment stands at an eight year

:16:32. > :16:32.low, as the jobless total fell by 99,000 between September and

:16:33. > :16:36.November. But official figures show average earnings are down, compared

:16:37. > :16:38.to this time last year. At least 19 people are reported to have been

:16:39. > :16:41.killed after militants stormed a university in northwestern Pakistan.

:16:42. > :16:43.The army says four gunmen have been shot dead during the attack near

:16:44. > :16:44.Peshawar. Our correspondent Shahzeb Jillani is in Karachi - what's the

:16:45. > :17:04.latest? In the last hour, the Pakistani army

:17:05. > :17:09.chief, has arrived at the campus to see for himself the aftermath of the

:17:10. > :17:16.gun battle between four militants and security guards. At least 50

:17:17. > :17:21.people were wounded, 20 were killed. Among those killed, students, staff

:17:22. > :17:27.members, a university professor, and the army is now saying they have

:17:28. > :17:31.cleared the area, they have conducted a search and rescue

:17:32. > :17:40.operation, the commandos fought the gunmen. They have cleared the area

:17:41. > :17:46.and they hope they will get more details of what really happened. Is

:17:47. > :17:51.there any idea at this early stage of who the militants, who the

:17:52. > :17:57.gunmen, were? Early in the day we heard a claim by Pakistan Taliban

:17:58. > :18:01.which has later been denied, we know that the Taliban have previously

:18:02. > :18:08.attacked schools in similar fashion, if you remember last December, a

:18:09. > :18:12.horrific attack, at a school in Peshawar province, 50 people were

:18:13. > :18:18.killed, most of them were children. This is a similar kind of attack.

:18:19. > :18:21.Again, a soft target for these Islamist militants, which the

:18:22. > :18:33.Pakistani army has been battling for more than a year and a half.

:18:34. > :18:35.The Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, will urge his

:18:36. > :18:38.counterparts in Paris today to hit harder at what he calls the "head

:18:39. > :18:40.of the snake" in the fight against the so-called

:18:41. > :18:44.E.On is to reduce its standard gas price from next month

:18:45. > :18:46.following mounting criticism of the big energy companies

:18:47. > :18:48.for failing to pass on falling wholesale prices to consumers.

:18:49. > :18:51.The Police Federation in England and Wales have told this programme

:18:52. > :18:53.that British people's lives are being put at risk

:18:54. > :18:55.because officers aren't being routinely armed

:18:56. > :19:01.It's thought the National Police Chiefs Council is meeting in Surrey

:19:02. > :19:09.A 10-year-old Muslim boy who mistakenly wrote that he lived

:19:10. > :19:17.when he meant to say "terraced house"

:19:18. > :19:21.during a lesson at school has been investigated by police.

:19:22. > :19:22.Donald Trump gets the backing of Sarah Palin,

:19:23. > :19:24.the populist ex-governor of Alaska and former

:19:25. > :19:30.Republican vice-presidential candidate.

:19:31. > :19:36.The last non-league side was knocked out of the FA Cup last night,

:19:37. > :19:41.Eastleigh went down fighting, in the third round replay, taking the lead

:19:42. > :19:46.against Bolton of the championship, losing 3-2 in the end. 210 Carlisle

:19:47. > :19:51.fans in made the 700 mile round-trip to Theo Viltz were well rewarded,

:19:52. > :19:55.winning on penalties to earn a fourth-round tie against Everton,

:19:56. > :19:59.because the game will be televised, it will be worth a quarter of ?1

:20:00. > :20:02.million to the club. Two more replays tonight, the last of them,

:20:03. > :20:11.Liverpool against Exeter, and Leicester City against Tottenham

:20:12. > :20:13.Hotspur, which is live on the BBC. Celtic are six points clear again in

:20:14. > :20:18.the Scottish Premiership, after an 8-1 thrashing of Hamilton, including

:20:19. > :20:20.a hat-trick from Leigh Griffiths. In the Scottish Cup, Inverness

:20:21. > :20:22.Caledonian Thistle won their fourth round replay over part-timers

:20:23. > :20:32.Stirling Albion - two nil. They'll travel to Motherwell next. -- 2-1.

:20:33. > :20:34.-- 2-0. And the World Number One and defending champion Serena Williams

:20:35. > :20:36.is into the third round at the Australian Open, she beat Taiwan's

:20:37. > :20:45.Shay Sue-way in straight sets. Roger Federer was also through overnight.

:20:46. > :20:48.are thought to have arrived in Europe last year unaccompanied

:20:49. > :20:51.and on their own most fleeing war torn countries.

:20:52. > :20:54.Save the Children are calling on the govt in this country to offer

:20:55. > :20:56.a home for 3000 of those vulnerable and unaccompanied children.

:20:57. > :21:00.We've been to meet one of them, Javed, who's now 14 and has been

:21:01. > :21:02.living with a foster carer in Yorkshire

:21:03. > :21:17.Can you just chop the onion for me, please?

:21:18. > :21:22.But mind your fingers, won't you? Just be careful.

:21:23. > :21:23.How was football, Javed? Football?

:21:24. > :21:25.Football, was it good? Very good.

:21:26. > :21:32.Did you score any goals? Three.

:21:33. > :21:35.Were you playing outside or inside? Outside.

:21:36. > :21:47.This is yummy. OK, thank you.

:21:48. > :21:49.Sit on the step and watch if you want.

:21:50. > :21:52.I got a phone call to see if I wanted to look after a refugee,

:21:53. > :21:55.13-year-old boy, which at the beginning of my fostering

:21:56. > :21:58.journey I never thought I would end up looking after a teenage boy.

:21:59. > :22:10.But without hesitation I would foster a refugee again,

:22:11. > :22:12.and foster a teenage boy, because it's been nothing

:22:13. > :22:14.but positive, the impact on the family.

:22:15. > :22:17.The way he's just fitted in, he's a lovely, happy boy.

:22:18. > :22:24.He's brought nothing but happiness, really.

:22:25. > :22:26.Sit down properly. Is this mushroom?

:22:27. > :22:27.No, it's chicken. Yay, chicken!

:22:28. > :22:47.TRANSLATION: I came from France to UK not like a normal passenger,

:22:48. > :22:51.Because I had no documents to the show to the driver

:22:52. > :22:53.and I had no money or travel tickets.

:22:54. > :22:56.Every day we went to train station looking for a chance of how to get

:22:57. > :23:08.I was nervous, the things you think...

:23:09. > :23:10.I was worried about having a 13-year-old boy in the house,

:23:11. > :23:13.how will I manage if there is any challenging behaviour?

:23:14. > :23:15.Knowing he's grown up in war, will that affect his behaviour?

:23:16. > :23:18.So I was very nervous, because there's just myself

:23:19. > :23:20.and my seven-year-old son in the house.

:23:21. > :23:25.But I spoke to the previous foster carer where he'd been for a few

:23:26. > :23:28.weeks and she reassured me what a lovely boy he was.

:23:29. > :23:32.And we met him first, he came for tea and we had

:23:33. > :23:47.I knew from the minute I met him that it was a perfect fit.

:23:48. > :23:53.So many of you have been getting in touch with us. " inspiring

:23:54. > :23:55.conversation with the foster mother of the refugee proving refugees are

:23:56. > :25:02.people, not numbers". You can watch and share the full

:25:03. > :25:05.film on our programme So many of you getting in touch

:25:06. > :25:09.with us about Karen and Javed. Save The Children estimate at least

:25:10. > :25:11.26,000 children arrived in Europe in 2015 without their mums or dads,

:25:12. > :25:14.that's double the number in 2014. In the UK, the most recent official

:25:15. > :25:18.figures show that there were 2,564 asylum applications

:25:19. > :25:19.from unaccompanied Asylum-Seeking Children in the year ending

:25:20. > :25:21.September 2015 an increase of 50% from the year before

:25:22. > :25:43.to just over 1,700. We can speak with Kirsty Mackay

:25:44. > :25:45.meal, from Save the children, who is calling for the British government

:25:46. > :25:51.are taking 3000 unaccompanied children, Lord dubs, who believes

:25:52. > :25:56.Britain should do more commonly arrive in Britain from Prague at the

:25:57. > :26:00.age of six after the beginning of the Second World War and was one of

:26:01. > :26:06.660 Jewish children to be rescued by Sir Nicholas Winton, often called

:26:07. > :26:12.the British Schindler. And we can also speak with someone who fled the

:26:13. > :26:16.country of Afghanistan to this country. People have had a terrible

:26:17. > :26:22.time all over this world, and we have an obligation as part of Europe

:26:23. > :26:26.to take out share of the responsibility and be a great asset.

:26:27. > :26:29.We can do it. It is a small number, of course we can do it, the British

:26:30. > :26:45.people have responded very well. It is win-win. You said farewell to

:26:46. > :26:49.your own mother in Prague to come to Britain in the rescue efforts

:26:50. > :26:53.organised by Sir Nicholas Winton, some people will not be aware of

:26:54. > :26:58.your efforts, I know that you say this is not about you, but tell us

:26:59. > :27:01.your story. At the age of six I was in Prague, I was put on the

:27:02. > :27:08.Kindertransport, the father had escaped the country immediately when

:27:09. > :27:13.the Nazis occupied and my mother put me on the Kindertransport, and I

:27:14. > :27:18.arrived in London. I was very lucky. This country gave me a fantastic

:27:19. > :27:20.welcome, gave me tremendous opportunities, I believe that other

:27:21. > :27:24.children should be given the same opportunities as I was given.

:27:25. > :27:32.Stephen, thank you for speaking with us, from Strasbourg. Does this

:27:33. > :27:35.debate change for you when you talk about unaccompanied children from

:27:36. > :27:41.across Europe trying to flee war-torn countries? If you are

:27:42. > :27:43.asking if we have a responsibility as a country, signatories to the

:27:44. > :27:47.United Nations Convention on the rights for children, also signing up

:27:48. > :27:51.rights for looking after asylum seekers and an active policy that

:27:52. > :27:54.issue we will take around 50,000 asylum seekers, then I think you are

:27:55. > :28:00.quite right, we have that responsibility. When we are looking

:28:01. > :28:04.at the policy and the people coming in, do we have to make choices in

:28:05. > :28:07.terms of the numbers of who should come here? Once again, we are in

:28:08. > :28:14.agreement in relation to children coming first. What we know about the

:28:15. > :28:19.children is it cost ?50,000 per year, that is a budget of 150

:28:20. > :28:23.million to 200 million, that is the range, to take in the 3000

:28:24. > :28:27.suggested. Arrogant tension is that if we are going to take in children

:28:28. > :28:31.we do not have finite resources in this country, we also have children

:28:32. > :28:40.of our own that need to be looked after. -- our suggestion. -- our

:28:41. > :28:43.contention. We have got to look at who else can come into this country

:28:44. > :28:48.because we cannot take everybody that is here. If I make one final

:28:49. > :28:54.point, we are not just talking about 24,000 in Europe, United Nations

:28:55. > :29:00.estimates that 19.5 million refugees are currently around the world, 51%,

:29:01. > :29:04.nearly 10 million of them, our children. We have a responsibility

:29:05. > :29:08.not only to people here but to those children. We should recognise we

:29:09. > :29:14.have finite resources in which we can deal with this. I want to... I

:29:15. > :29:21.want to press you on... I understand what you are saying about choices,

:29:22. > :29:28.but on the number 3000, is that too much, for you? I'm not sure, we can

:29:29. > :29:31.say whether it is too much or too little, we are expected to take

:29:32. > :29:37.20,000 from the camps, that is the right policy to be taking those

:29:38. > :29:41.young people in, but if you are taking 20,000, you have got to ask

:29:42. > :29:44.yourself, should the first 3000 be children, you want to take 4000, but

:29:45. > :29:50.then the numbers of those others that can come, we have got to ensure

:29:51. > :29:57.that we are analysing who comes over, perhaps it should not be young

:29:58. > :30:00.men of working age, we should be taking young women, children, the

:30:01. > :30:05.sick, the elderly, that is the consideration we have to make, with

:30:06. > :30:09.Cologne in mind. Take it in a global context of how many we will take in,

:30:10. > :30:11.we cannot take everybody, therefore, we should choose what number we

:30:12. > :30:20.have, and in which criteria. The government have said they will

:30:21. > :30:23.take 20,000 vulnerable Syrian refugees, over five years, and we

:30:24. > :30:28.are looking at children who are among the most vulnerable, and I

:30:29. > :30:31.think we have an obligation, a humanitarian obligation, to do that.

:30:32. > :30:36.I think we should. Other countries, the Germans, they are taking many

:30:37. > :30:41.more, and the Germans have virtually become the conscience of Europe,

:30:42. > :30:47.setting a standard. We can do better than we are doing without damaging

:30:48. > :30:51.our own people, without belittling. We can put children the foster care,

:30:52. > :30:57.it will work well. You are partly in support, I welcome your partial

:30:58. > :31:01.support. What I am saying, I can finish with that, we are in

:31:02. > :31:07.agreement, but it is not just 20,000 that we are going to take, that

:31:08. > :31:11.maybe the government in relation to Syria, but take the whole asylum

:31:12. > :31:17.context, it will still be 50,000 this year, and that is an increase

:31:18. > :31:20.over the last five years. The 4000 new talk about made well be part of

:31:21. > :31:24.that but we are still taking in a lot more than we have done over the

:31:25. > :31:27.past few years. You cannot devolve this away from the overall numbers

:31:28. > :31:33.of immigration coming into the country, which is where costs are

:31:34. > :31:38.involved. -- the 4000 you talk about. -- may well be part of that.

:31:39. > :31:45.You were smuggled into this country at the age of 13 by human

:31:46. > :31:49.traffickers, why? I left Afghanistan like many Afghanis and Syrians

:31:50. > :31:55.because of war, and it took me a year to get to Britain. Arrested in

:31:56. > :31:59.prison, at the age of 12, here I am. The point about taking refugees, it

:32:00. > :32:04.is a moral obligation, not only legal, it is moral, but those people

:32:05. > :32:07.need hope, they come to Europe with hope. Because they have been

:32:08. > :32:11.oppressed, they are running away from wars and conflict, we are not

:32:12. > :32:13.showing compassion. We should do more. We should see them not as a

:32:14. > :32:33.burden but as an investment. It would cost ?50,000 per child per

:32:34. > :32:39.year. This would be only 3000 children in total and Britain has

:32:40. > :32:42.done this before. During the kindred transport we took 10,000 Jewish

:32:43. > :32:47.children to save them from Nazi persecution. In the past this

:32:48. > :32:52.country could take 10,000. The person is only a part of that and it

:32:53. > :32:56.is manageable. No one is saying Britain should do the whole of the

:32:57. > :33:01.refugee crisis on their own, but if we all do a little, to get that we

:33:02. > :33:05.can do a lot. Written can afford it in terms of the financial side of

:33:06. > :33:12.things? We believe so and compared to other countries Britain needs to

:33:13. > :33:17.do more for people already in Europe. We welcome the Prime

:33:18. > :33:21.Minister's announcement to take women and children from that camps

:33:22. > :33:26.in Syria, but it does not do any thing from the people your viewers

:33:27. > :33:30.are seeing on their TV screens, people already in Europe. It is

:33:31. > :33:35.minus five degrees this morning and there are children who are cold and

:33:36. > :33:38.hungry and alone and afraid and they are right to be afraid. It is

:33:39. > :33:42.terrifying to sleep rough or sleep in a park or train station on your

:33:43. > :33:48.own without parents to look after you. This has a great tradition,

:33:49. > :33:53.this country to protect people who need it and we believe 3000 children

:33:54. > :33:56.could get a safe home in Britain. What could happen to some of those

:33:57. > :34:02.children if they do not get some kind of sanctuary in Britain or in

:34:03. > :34:08.Europe? I have been through what she is describing. I was there on my own

:34:09. > :34:12.and I show gratitude and I am in debt to Britain for taking me in. It

:34:13. > :34:16.has taken me five years to get refugee status and five years to get

:34:17. > :34:24.citizenship and I am grateful. If you do not take them, they will die.

:34:25. > :34:28.4000 children died last year. People are faced with extraordinary

:34:29. > :34:32.circumstances. Parents would not send their children away and it is a

:34:33. > :34:39.huge sacrifice they are making. We need to show compassion and

:34:40. > :34:43.humanitarian willingness to take these children in. We have wars in

:34:44. > :34:50.Libya, Iraq and Syria and we have this responsibility. Britain could

:34:51. > :34:55.do more. They could pressure other countries, the Arab world countries,

:34:56. > :34:59.to do more. They have the money and the re-sources. Bahrain is not doing

:35:00. > :35:05.anything because Britain is not doing enough to persuade them to do

:35:06. > :35:10.more. If we do not take them, we are letting our future generation down.

:35:11. > :35:16.I am thinking about what I was doing when I was 12. I cannot imagine

:35:17. > :35:22.making the journey you made aged 12 and I cannot imagine saying goodbye

:35:23. > :35:25.to my mother aged six. You had to do that to preserve your life. That is

:35:26. > :35:32.extraordinary. Let's think about that for a moment. Precisely. I have

:35:33. > :35:38.written a book about my journey and my story to share with people that

:35:39. > :35:43.they could be better educated about the circumstances in the first

:35:44. > :35:47.place. Why do children risk their lives and come 12,000 miles for

:35:48. > :35:51.safety Westerman what should we do when they come here? That is not the

:35:52. > :36:03.end. I went through so much hardship. There are children who are

:36:04. > :36:12.young, the immigration does not have to give you status. There are about

:36:13. > :36:16.2000 people in the UK who are struggling because local authorities

:36:17. > :36:20.will not take them and there is no centralised system for the

:36:21. > :36:25.government to force these people to go into local authorities. It is

:36:26. > :36:28.manageable, but there is no political will. We are forgetting

:36:29. > :36:39.what this amazing country stands for. Diversity and multiculturalism.

:36:40. > :36:43.When I came from central Europe Britain was the only country that

:36:44. > :36:47.would take unaccompanied children and Britain set a fantastic example

:36:48. > :36:53.at that time and I think we can do the same now. Thank you all very

:36:54. > :36:58.much for your time. I am going to leave it there, thank you very much

:36:59. > :37:00.for your contribution. Stephen Wolf is from Ukip and Kirsty McNeill is

:37:01. > :37:11.from Save the Children. is from Ukip and Kirsty McNeill is

:37:12. > :37:17.Your comments are all about Karen the foster mother in Yorkshire.

:37:18. > :37:21.Jones says, as I watch this foster mother I feel so selfish.

:37:22. > :37:25.Another says people are complaining about children needing fostering,

:37:26. > :37:29.why don't they apply? Diane says there are children in

:37:30. > :37:32.this country but they did not cross continents to be safe. Please have a

:37:33. > :37:37.heart, people. A 10-year-old Muslim boy

:37:38. > :37:39.who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house"

:37:40. > :37:41.during an English lesson at school The boy, who goes to a primary

:37:42. > :37:46.school in Lancashire, meant to say he lived

:37:47. > :37:48.in a "terraced house". He and his family were visited

:37:49. > :37:51.by Lancashire Police at their home in December and the family

:37:52. > :37:53.laptop was examined. No further action was taken,

:37:54. > :37:55.but the boy's family said they were left shocked and now want

:37:56. > :37:58.both the school and police The only views he had

:37:59. > :38:03.from the family are sympathies toward Syria, which is appalling

:38:04. > :38:06.and what happened in Paris We are more appalled

:38:07. > :38:09.by what is happening in the name of Islam and by people who call

:38:10. > :38:12.themselves Muslims and my uncle and aunty are bringing up

:38:13. > :38:15.the children to see the goodness in Islam and not see

:38:16. > :38:18.these extremist views. With me now is our

:38:19. > :38:31.correspondent Lisa Hampele. How did this happen? You heard from

:38:32. > :38:35.the boy's cousin. We are not naming them, but she went on to say to

:38:36. > :38:42.start with the family thought this was a joke. The boy had written in

:38:43. > :38:47.school, in his primary school, he is ten, that he lived in a terrorist

:38:48. > :38:52.house. It was a spelling mistake and they thought he had meant to say a

:38:53. > :38:58.terraced house. They thought it was to do with terrorism and it was the

:38:59. > :39:02.very next day when the police went to his house and they interviewed

:39:03. > :39:07.him and they looked at the family laptop. The cousin you have just

:39:08. > :39:12.heard from said they thought it was a joke to start with. But he stopped

:39:13. > :39:16.eating, he became isolated and he hid under a blanket and they were

:39:17. > :39:22.all really worried for him. The school contacted the police and the

:39:23. > :39:28.school have a legal duty to do that. That is right, that is the 2015

:39:29. > :39:32.Counterterrorism and Security Act which came in in July 20 15.

:39:33. > :39:37.Teachers and schools are obliged, just like the NHS and universities,

:39:38. > :39:42.anywhere where there are young people, they are obliged to tell if

:39:43. > :39:47.they feel there is a problem with terrorism. This is part of the

:39:48. > :39:54.Prevent programme. But the family want an apology. They say it is not

:39:55. > :39:56.good enough and they should have realised it was a spelling mistake

:39:57. > :40:00.and they should have asked him. Thank you very much.

:40:01. > :40:07.The Police Federation in England and Wales are saying that people's lives

:40:08. > :40:11.are put at risk because police officers are not armed with tasers.

:40:12. > :40:20.They say all officers should be given the chance to have a stun gun.

:40:21. > :40:30.Here is a reminder of how they work. Get down. This is an electrical

:40:31. > :40:34.device and when it is deployed it releases two wires with barbs on the

:40:35. > :40:40.end. It releases a charge of 50,000 faults and that temporarily

:40:41. > :40:45.incapacitates a person. It is important to stress that the

:40:46. > :40:52.electrical current is less than the typical Christmas tree light.

:40:53. > :40:57.The National police chief counsel has told us that the number of

:40:58. > :41:04.tasered trained officers is being discussed by Chief constables today.

:41:05. > :41:10.But the roll-out of tasers to all officers is not being recommended as

:41:11. > :41:14.an all-out option. Here is what the representative of the Police

:41:15. > :41:19.Federation said earlier. These are the people who run towards a danger

:41:20. > :41:23.when others are running away. They feel but honourable. Over many years

:41:24. > :41:28.we have seen the value that taser gun can bring. The public see the

:41:29. > :41:33.value. It is less than lethal option. At the moment officers carry

:41:34. > :41:39.weapons that can cause serious injury and death. Taser gun filled

:41:40. > :41:42.that gap. It means you can gain control and deal with people

:41:43. > :41:48.effectively and quickly without causing injury, without resorting to

:41:49. > :41:52.even more violence. You say police officers are feeling vulnerable.

:41:53. > :41:57.More vulnerable than usual? Absolutely. The risks police

:41:58. > :42:02.officers are facing now are greater than at any time, certainly in my

:42:03. > :42:07.service. We have seen intelligence assessments that suggest that. The

:42:08. > :42:11.terror threat in Britain has been severe, the second-highest, for 18

:42:12. > :42:15.months now. That is despite Charlie Hebdo and what we saw in Paris in

:42:16. > :42:23.November and despite the Russian airliner being shot down. That is

:42:24. > :42:32.one aspect of it. The day-to-day deployment of police officers, with

:42:33. > :42:34.16,000 fewer cops on the street is now, you have got vulnerability in

:42:35. > :42:37.terms of' ruin and getting to an incident. We have seen cases in

:42:38. > :42:42.Thames Valley and Leytonstone where the real value of having officers

:42:43. > :42:47.equipped and able to respond to incidents and use the device

:42:48. > :42:53.effectively is of huge valley. Rather than calling in firearms

:42:54. > :42:57.officers which may take 15 minutes or longer? Exactly, or dealing with

:42:58. > :43:01.the threat in a different way which might involve potentially lethal

:43:02. > :43:07.force or force that would cause injury to the officer, the suspect

:43:08. > :43:12.or the public. Steve White, the chairman of the Police Federation.

:43:13. > :43:18.Breaking News from West Midlands police. They say a 28-year-old woman

:43:19. > :43:21.from Coventry has been arrested on suspicion of Syria related terrorism

:43:22. > :43:25.offences. She was detained at an address in the city but officers

:43:26. > :43:29.from the force's counterterrorism unit.

:43:30. > :43:34.On taser guns, many comments from you. Most are not into the idea of

:43:35. > :43:39.police officers being routinely armed with them.

:43:40. > :43:42.Scott says they are a great tool to help police in a country with no

:43:43. > :43:51.respect for the law. Ryan says it adds news.

:43:52. > :43:54.Someone says a large number of the public have undiagnosed heart

:43:55. > :44:00.conditions. With the please accept liability for these deaths after the

:44:01. > :44:01.use of taser guns? We will see you tomorrow, have a

:44:02. > :44:02.very