04/02/2016

:00:00. > :00:07.Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanne Gosling,

:00:08. > :00:13.Support for families whose babies are stillborn or die shortly death

:00:14. > :00:17.are "not good enough" - that's the view of a Government

:00:18. > :00:19.minister after an investigation for this programme revealed

:00:20. > :00:33.There is a real value in bereavement suites, in bereavement midwives and

:00:34. > :00:34.a real need for a clear bereavement pathway.

:00:35. > :00:37.That was the Conservative MP Antoinette Sandbach.

:00:38. > :00:44.In a special investigation for this programme she meets the people

:00:45. > :00:47.determined to bring bereaved parents better support.

:00:48. > :00:49.Also ahead; David Cameron pledges an extra ?1.2 billion of aid

:00:50. > :00:55.The announcement comes as a new poll suggests attitudes in the UK

:00:56. > :01:01.are hardening; 40% of people now say we should accept fewer refugees.

:01:02. > :01:04.And the mum who took the Government to court and won.

:01:05. > :01:07.Her son developed a sleep disorder from a swine flu jab,

:01:08. > :01:22.Hello, welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC

:01:23. > :01:29.We'll keep you across the latest breaking and developing stories.

:01:30. > :01:32.We'll be live as world leaders gather for a donor conference

:01:33. > :01:39.in London in an attempt to raise over ?6 billion for those affected

:01:40. > :01:45.Some 70 leaders are expected to attend the conference,

:01:46. > :01:48.the fourth of its kind, including UK Prime Minister David Cameron

:01:49. > :01:52.As ever your contributions are really important

:01:53. > :01:58.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:59. > :02:01.And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

:02:02. > :02:05.you are, via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:02:06. > :02:08.A Government minister has admitted to this programme that bereavement

:02:09. > :02:11.services for families whose babies are stillborn or die shortly

:02:12. > :02:16.It follows an investigation for us by the Conservative MP

:02:17. > :02:19.Antoinette Sandbach who found services were "patchy" with some

:02:20. > :02:26.You might remember that in 2009 Antoinette's son Sam died

:02:27. > :02:34.In an emotional speech she told the House of Commons there was no

:02:35. > :02:37.bereavement counselling available where she lived and she only got

:02:38. > :02:40.help when a charity paid for a counsellor to visit her home.

:02:41. > :02:43.At the moment it is up to hospital trusts to decide what kind

:02:44. > :02:49.of bereavement support they offer parents and as Antoinette has

:02:50. > :02:52.discovered for this programme improvements need to be made.

:02:53. > :02:56.Antoinette's film obviously deals with an upsetting subject; it's

:02:57. > :02:59.about 15 minutes long and, as you'll see, she comes

:03:00. > :03:02.across people who are determined to offer excellent support

:03:03. > :03:49.I'm Antoinette Sandbach, Conservative M. I spoke in the

:03:50. > :03:55.Commons about the death of my son. The night my son died, I woke to

:03:56. > :03:58.find him not breathing. I looked at a flatline in the ambulance for 20

:03:59. > :04:05.minutes. A crash team was waiting for me but it was too late. The

:04:06. > :04:08.consultant Ne-Yo natal doctor was calm and a reassuring presence and

:04:09. > :04:12.the nursing staff were patient. I readily agreed to a postmortem as I

:04:13. > :04:17.wanted to know exactly what had happened. Staff at the hospital were

:04:18. > :04:21.wonderful, but I found myself in a plain room with questions being

:04:22. > :04:27.asked of me. I was told that I had to wait for the police. I had left

:04:28. > :04:32.in such a panic that I'd left my telephone behind and I couldn't

:04:33. > :04:42.remember any telephone numbers and was there on my own. I called the

:04:43. > :04:46.number for the charity and they organised counselling for me. That

:04:47. > :04:52.counselling was a lifeline and I owe a huge debt of gratitude to John

:04:53. > :04:54.from the Alder Centre at Alder Hey Hospital as there was no counselling

:04:55. > :05:05.available in North Wales. I was overwhelmed by the response

:05:06. > :05:10.from members of the public and I wanted to go out and see what the

:05:11. > :05:18.issues were facing other parents in the same situation as me.

:05:19. > :05:23.We know that bereavement services across the country are patchy and

:05:24. > :05:28.some parents who desperately need help and support are not able to

:05:29. > :05:32.access it. So I've come here to the Alder Centre in Liverpool at Alder

:05:33. > :05:34.Hey Children's Hospital to see the gold standard of care that they

:05:35. > :06:05.offer bereaved parents. Hello, how are you... Lovely to see

:06:06. > :06:12.you. It's been far too long. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks to you!

:06:13. > :06:15.Are you ready to show me around this wonderful facility? Yes, I am, I am.

:06:16. > :06:39.There you go. Thank you. I think you will find that what we

:06:40. > :06:44.have here in this part of the country is unique. We will support

:06:45. > :06:49.any bereaved parent who can get to us here in Liverpool. There's a lot

:06:50. > :07:02.of areas that don't have bereavement support.

:07:03. > :07:07.A lot of parents do say that if it wasn't for counselling support, they

:07:08. > :07:12.would feel they would have been on medication for maybe a long time.

:07:13. > :07:16.It's my experience that I was offered medication rather than

:07:17. > :07:21.counselling? Yes. And I felt that I was grieving, not depressed? Yes,

:07:22. > :07:25.and that is what I tell the parents that come here, you know, and I

:07:26. > :07:29.think any hospital should be providing a counselling service. If

:07:30. > :07:35.it can't be provided in hospitals, certainly it should be in the local

:07:36. > :08:20.area. Child death helpline, this is Deb...

:08:21. > :08:27.If we are on call, our target is to be in the hospital within an hour of

:08:28. > :08:32.being notified of the child having died. Once the family have settled,

:08:33. > :08:36.then we'd say, when you're ready, you can go through and see your

:08:37. > :08:40.child, your baby. This is the room they'd come to and here they can

:08:41. > :08:44.just spend precious time with their child, it's their space to do what

:08:45. > :08:50.they want really. We'd support them, but we'd also give them private

:08:51. > :08:53.time. We do things like hand and footprints with them if that's what

:08:54. > :08:57.they would like, locks of hair, we can take very special photographs

:08:58. > :09:20.for them maybe of the baby's hand in mum's hand and dad's hand.

:09:21. > :09:27.I found it very difficult that, not that I was being treated like a

:09:28. > :09:34.criminal, but that there was, the fact of the criminal investigation,

:09:35. > :09:37.I found that very difficult. I think our primary role is to be an

:09:38. > :09:42.advocate for the person so actually we can intervene and ask the police

:09:43. > :09:43.to pause and wait and see, mum needs some space, please give her that

:09:44. > :09:55.space. I'm on my way to meet a mum who lost

:09:56. > :09:57.her baby at 11 weeks and to see what her experience was of bereavement

:09:58. > :10:44.care. The hospital were great. The day she

:10:45. > :10:52.passed aawas amazing, they cleared the whole ward and brought a sofa in

:10:53. > :10:57.and she was with us. She, after that, we did a footprint and cleaned

:10:58. > :11:01.her, wrapped her in a blanket. And gave you a memory box? Yes, which

:11:02. > :11:08.was lovely. As soon as we'd left the hospital, there was nothing there. I

:11:09. > :11:13.rang an organisation who gave me five or six numbers of local

:11:14. > :11:20.charities, organisations, to speak to, and I rang them. Every time, I

:11:21. > :11:28.had to tell my story which was painful, more than painful at that

:11:29. > :11:32.time. But I had five noes and it was horrendous and I went through the

:11:33. > :11:36.story every time. I remember coming downstairs, telling my family and

:11:37. > :11:42.being mortified. I was so upset because I just needed this support

:11:43. > :11:48.very early and I was getting no, no, no, because she was too old, too

:11:49. > :11:56.young, didn't day of the right thing, and it was just horrendous.

:11:57. > :11:59.In terms of the difference of before you got professional counselling and

:12:00. > :12:04.afterwards, what kind of difference did that make to you emotionally?

:12:05. > :12:10.Well, it was huge really because Isabelle died on 3rd January, I saw

:12:11. > :12:14.somebody I think mid toll the end of March -- middle to the end of March

:12:15. > :12:18.and she was fantastic. In that period, I didn't know what I was

:12:19. > :12:24.doing. I needed a guidance how to do this basically and then, as soon as

:12:25. > :12:27.I saw her, she had almost mapped it out like a structure and said, this

:12:28. > :12:31.is what you feel, you may not, I told her what I was feeling, she

:12:32. > :12:38.said that's normal, that's fine, and it was like a huge relief, a huge

:12:39. > :12:43.relief. And if only I'd had that at the beginning, it was still a

:12:44. > :12:47.painful, painful time, but that took the burden off a little bit. Because

:12:48. > :12:53.I could understand what I was feeling, she made me understand what

:12:54. > :12:57.I was feeling. Isabelle was very like Mark, my

:12:58. > :13:02.husband, features the same really and Emily was very like me. I

:13:03. > :13:06.remember Sam had very big feet. My boy's definitely going to be in the

:13:07. > :13:10.Welsh rugby team, I thought. It's lovely isn't it? It is lovely, all

:13:11. > :13:25.those things are just lovely memories. They're all we have? Yes.

:13:26. > :13:30.Minister, it's clear that those parents who arrive at hospital

:13:31. > :13:35.following on from a sudden infant death often don't have access to a

:13:36. > :13:45.bereavement suite. Are you looking to change that? So the problem is

:13:46. > :13:48.that it's still not good enough. You might have some hospitals where

:13:49. > :13:52.there is a good bereavement suite but not a full-time bereavement

:13:53. > :13:56.nurse, where there might not be good counselling after a death. We need

:13:57. > :14:00.to make sure we've got a really joined up pathway in all hospitals

:14:01. > :14:04.so that we provide consistent support and help to mothers and

:14:05. > :14:09.families for the entire duration that they require it. Whilst there

:14:10. > :14:12.is a lot of great work going on in this country, and actually some of

:14:13. > :14:16.the best research in the world is going on here, it's clear that there

:14:17. > :14:23.was massive variation across the country, which meant that compared

:14:24. > :14:26.to other countries, it's not enough. Some charities work on the

:14:27. > :14:30.counselling because it's not available on the NHS. What are you

:14:31. > :14:37.doing to ensure the NHS can work in partnership with the charities? I

:14:38. > :14:42.hope very much That the ?350 million that we are giving for perinatal

:14:43. > :14:45.health will go to make sure the services are more sustainable. We

:14:46. > :14:49.don't want to lose the amazing work being put in by charities around the

:14:50. > :14:53.country, because actually, it's often those mothers and families

:14:54. > :14:58.who've had experience of still birth and Ne-Yo natal death who're best

:14:59. > :15:09.able to help mothers and families going through that. -- neonatal.

:15:10. > :15:13.Some hospitals can only provide the facilities with the charity money.

:15:14. > :15:22.I've come here to see what has been achieved by parent power.

:15:23. > :15:33.Hello, I'm Antoinette. Shall we take a seat? Have you come far? No,

:15:34. > :15:52.fairly local. One of the hardest part was being on

:15:53. > :15:59.the delivery suite, hearing the babies crying, hearing of the

:16:00. > :16:03.parents celebrating. We were in amongst it, and that was painful,

:16:04. > :16:07.knowing that we would never hear Abigail Crier, never get that

:16:08. > :16:12.celebration, because we lost her before she had even been with us. Do

:16:13. > :16:16.you think it is appropriate that the funding needs to come from the

:16:17. > :16:20.charitable sector? I think it is hard for the NHS, they have got

:16:21. > :16:25.limited budgets and are trying to stretch them through the services

:16:26. > :16:28.they provide. Is bereavement care seen as a luxury item? I don't know,

:16:29. > :16:48.it shouldn't be, but it seems to be. This is our delivery suite, we have

:16:49. > :16:52.5000 birds here, and currently we have ten birthing rooms which will

:16:53. > :16:55.be for the mothers having normal, healthy pregnancies, and just down

:16:56. > :16:59.the corridor is our bereavement suite, which is where mothers

:17:00. > :17:10.deliver. What difference have David and Joe and their charity, Abigail's

:17:11. > :17:14.Footsteps,, made to this hospital? Being able to develop the

:17:15. > :17:21.bereavement suite is undoubtedly huge, thank you very much to them.

:17:22. > :17:26.This is for the memory box, something she can take away with

:17:27. > :17:30.her, a baby that, when she got pregnant, she loved from the very

:17:31. > :17:39.minute. It is the loss of a future, isn't it? Absolutely, and

:17:40. > :17:42.registering that for her. Oh, a pink, fluffy poodle!

:17:43. > :17:46.I have met so many amazing parents on this journey, all, like me,

:17:47. > :17:51.trying to make a difference, and what it has shown is that there is a

:17:52. > :17:54.real value in bereavement sweets, bereavement midwives, and a real

:17:55. > :18:00.need for a clear bereavement pathway. It has been quite difficult

:18:01. > :18:03.and emotional for me, this journey, but I am absolutely determined to

:18:04. > :18:05.fight with others to make sure those improvements are made, and made for

:18:06. > :18:14.people around the country. You can watch and share that film

:18:15. > :18:17.online via our programme page. And if you need support

:18:18. > :18:20.after watching Antoinette's story there are details on how

:18:21. > :18:25.to get help there too. You can also ring the

:18:26. > :18:27.Child Death Helpline - they offer

:18:28. > :18:28.a freephone service. You can contact them

:18:29. > :18:32.on 0800 282 986. Antoinette will be here later

:18:33. > :18:35.in the programme along with a woman who has raised thousands

:18:36. > :18:50.to build a bereavement suite Lots of you getting in touch. One

:18:51. > :18:55.tweet, amazing insight into support for bereaved parents. John says, my

:18:56. > :19:03.ex-wife had a stillbirth more than 40 years ago, we had nobody to help

:19:04. > :19:06.and moved on. One e-mail, excruciating to watch the story of

:19:07. > :19:08.Antoinette's loss, more funding in this area is vital.

:19:09. > :19:13.A ten-year-old boy wins a payout after developing

:19:14. > :19:15.a rare sleeping condition following a swine flu vaccination.

:19:16. > :19:18.Josh Hadfield and his mum will be speaking to us shortly.

:19:19. > :19:21.The BBC understands that a UN panel has found Julian Assange

:19:22. > :19:23.is being wrongly detained at the London embassy

:19:24. > :19:35.What does this mean now for the WikiLeaks founder?

:19:36. > :19:46.The UK will double its funding for Syrian refugees who have fled

:19:47. > :19:53.It is pledging an extra ?1.2 billion by 2020 to help some

:19:54. > :19:56.of the people who have fled to neighbouring countries such

:19:57. > :20:01.70 countries are meeting in London this morning for a conference

:20:02. > :20:06.The energy regulator is to investigate allegations

:20:07. > :20:09.that the charity Age UK has been selling unfavourable gas

:20:10. > :20:13.and electricity deals to elderly people in return for money.

:20:14. > :20:21.It concerns the energy supplier aeon, Age UK denies the claim.

:20:22. > :20:24.A murder inquiry has been launched after a man was shot dead

:20:25. > :20:27.during an attempted robbery at a warehouse

:20:28. > :20:31.Police were called after receiving reports that several masked men

:20:32. > :20:36.A man in his 50s, who was found with a gunshot wound at the scene,

:20:37. > :20:39.The BBC understands that a UN panel investigating whether WikiLeaks

:20:40. > :20:41.founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully detained'

:20:42. > :20:43.at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

:20:44. > :20:46.Mr Assange says he expects to be able to walk free

:20:47. > :20:50.from the Ecuadorian embassy, where he's been living for three

:20:51. > :20:54.A Government minister has told this programme that bereavement services

:20:55. > :20:57.for families whose children are stillborn or die shortly

:20:58. > :21:03.It follows an investigation by the Conservative MP

:21:04. > :21:06.Antoinette Sandbach who found services were 'patchy' with some

:21:07. > :21:12.John Watson has all the sport for us now, and news of Tyson Fury throwing

:21:13. > :21:27.What is happening? champion of the world, Tyson Fury

:21:28. > :21:36.has threatened to quit the sport. It came in and interview

:21:37. > :21:37.has threatened to quit the sport. It his victory over Vladimir Critchlow.

:21:38. > :21:46.He says he does not want his victory over Vladimir Critchlow.

:21:47. > :21:48.hear from him later on. We will also touch on last night's

:21:49. > :21:55.hear from him later on. We will also from the Premier League, one of

:21:56. > :22:04.hear from him later on. We will also Newcastle, lost last night. Perhaps

:22:05. > :22:09.that not having the immediate effect they wanted. And we will hear from

:22:10. > :22:12.Jamie Jones-Buchanan of Leeds Rhinos, and interesting story. They

:22:13. > :22:16.begin their title defence later tonight following the floods over

:22:17. > :22:21.Christmas, they have not been able to train on their pitches. Not the

:22:22. > :22:24.best preparation for them ahead of the start of the new season. All of

:22:25. > :22:28.that to come at 10am. Thank you.

:22:29. > :22:33.David Cameron is to double the UK's aid spending for Syrian refugees,

:22:34. > :22:36.as more than 70 world leaders gather in London for talks

:22:37. > :22:39.Britain is promising an extra ?1.2 billion of aid for Syrians

:22:40. > :22:42.who have fled to neighbouring countries to escape the civil war.

:22:43. > :22:45.The announcement comes as a new poll suggests attitudes in the UK

:22:46. > :22:48.are hardening - two in five people here now say we should

:22:49. > :22:55.The United Nations is attempting to raise more than ?6 billion

:22:56. > :22:59.to help fund aid operations for the 4.6 million refugees

:23:00. > :23:01.who have fled Syria and are in need of assistance.

:23:02. > :23:04.With no end to the conflict in sight, Caroline Hawley looks

:23:05. > :23:11.at the grim statistics that define the crisis.

:23:12. > :23:17.Syria is the worst humanitarian crisis of our time. I will give you

:23:18. > :23:28.some figures, but all this is about, actually, is people dying.

:23:29. > :23:34.Before the war there were about 22 million people living in Syria.

:23:35. > :23:40.About half of them, half of them, had to clear they -- flee their

:23:41. > :23:46.homes, that is 11 million people uprooted. It really is huge, the

:23:47. > :23:49.population of Greece, Portugal or Belgium. More than 4.5 million of

:23:50. > :23:54.them have crossed into other countries. Next door in Lebanon,

:23:55. > :23:59.every fifth person is a Syrian refugee. The vast majority are

:24:00. > :24:08.fleeing not the so-called Islamic State but President Assad's regime.

:24:09. > :24:13.Take that in. While IS get all the attention, they are not the main

:24:14. > :24:17.humanitarian problem. In Syria it self more than 2 million children

:24:18. > :24:21.are living under siege or in areas that aid agencies cannot reach. Some

:24:22. > :24:29.have starved to death, some tortured to death, in all over a quarter of a

:24:30. > :24:32.million people have been killed. Around a third of

:24:33. > :24:41.million people have been killed. civilians. 13,000 of them were

:24:42. > :24:44.children. The UN says it will need $8 million to spend on the

:24:45. > :24:49.humanitarian crisis this year. Last year it got only half the money it

:24:50. > :24:53.asked for, but even if it got everything it asks for the reality

:24:54. > :24:54.is with the conflict carrying on many, many more Syrians are going to

:24:55. > :24:57.be killed. We can speak now to three Syrians

:24:58. > :25:03.living here in the UK. Haid Haid, a masters student

:25:04. > :25:05.who moved here from Syria Fardous Bahbouh, a translator who's

:25:06. > :25:13.been here for five years. And Reem Assal, who's going to be

:25:14. > :25:23.attending the conference later. Haid, tell us your situation macros

:25:24. > :25:31.you left Syria after the war broke out, went to Lebanon and have now

:25:32. > :25:36.come here? In 2011 I started participating in demonstrations

:25:37. > :25:44.against Assad. I had to go and serve in the army but refused to do that

:25:45. > :25:49.so I had to macro options, go out and kill people, or to be killed, or

:25:50. > :25:53.to leave the country, so I left the country. I stayed in Lebanon on the

:25:54. > :25:58.four years and I'm here to be my masters now. You had a relatively

:25:59. > :26:02.straightforward departure from the country and arrival here. When you

:26:03. > :26:06.look at the situation now, how do you feel about others and about your

:26:07. > :26:13.position? It is extremely difficult right now, because Turkey has closed

:26:14. > :26:18.its border with Syria since March 2015, almost a year now. Jordan has

:26:19. > :26:24.closed its border for more than three years now. It is extremely

:26:25. > :26:27.difficult for any Syrian to be able to enter Lebanon since January 2015,

:26:28. > :26:33.so what we are seeing now is that civilians who need to leave are

:26:34. > :26:38.trapped inside Syria, so it is a completely different story. To be

:26:39. > :26:44.able to get out of Syria, people have to be able to survive being

:26:45. > :26:49.shot not only by Assad forces but by security forces or by immigration

:26:50. > :26:53.officers from Turkey or Jordan or even Lebanon when they try to

:26:54. > :27:02.smuggle in illegally to these countries. Reem, what is your story?

:27:03. > :27:08.I was born in the UK but lived most of my life in Syria. In the

:27:09. > :27:16.beginning of the uprising I was engaged right from the start, so on

:27:17. > :27:22.the background of the activism I was had for questioning a couple of

:27:23. > :27:27.times in June 2000 and 11. After that, I had to flee the country, my

:27:28. > :27:30.family insisted upon that. I was fortunate because I'm a British

:27:31. > :27:39.citizen so it was straightforward for me, I came back to the UK, which

:27:40. > :27:47.is not the case for the majority of Syrians, who have to risk their

:27:48. > :27:51.lives, throw themselves in the seed to reach outside the country. You

:27:52. > :27:56.have got a lot of family still in Syria bowed you have been here for

:27:57. > :28:02.five years? I have family and friends all over Syria, I was a

:28:03. > :28:10.student in Syria, -- I was a teacher in Syria, and it is so hard to see

:28:11. > :28:19.it, there is biting, and we are very thankful and very grateful to the

:28:20. > :28:26.donors and Syrian friends who are gathered today in London. We need

:28:27. > :28:33.more focus on a political solution and a real end to the war, because

:28:34. > :28:38.we Syrians just wanted our rights, our dignity, our freedom, we were

:28:39. > :28:45.peaceful in our demonstrations but the regime didn't like this, and

:28:46. > :28:53.brutally killed everybody until the revolution had unfortunately become

:28:54. > :29:00.militarily. Now, the situation is very bad and the only baby can reach

:29:01. > :29:04.an effective political solution is through civilian protection, so be

:29:05. > :29:08.card only hold talks if there is no real feeling of civilian protection.

:29:09. > :29:17.That could only happen through ending the siege and through air for

:29:18. > :29:23.besieged areas, and also through the immediate stop of indiscriminate

:29:24. > :29:31.killing, mainly through bombardments, through Assad bombs

:29:32. > :29:35.and the Russian bombing the Syrians. They say they are fighting Isis,

:29:36. > :29:39.however if you look at the maps where the Russian bombs are landing,

:29:40. > :29:44.they are landing when the opposition are, so very little of this has gone

:29:45. > :29:49.on to Isis. And the third point is the release of the detailing is.

:29:50. > :29:54.Many Syrians who spoke for their freedom were detained. We have

:29:55. > :29:59.political detailing is and want to see them freed. I have two cousins

:30:00. > :30:05.who were detained because they were distributing food through a besieged

:30:06. > :30:10.town, and we don't know where they are. These two brave men were only

:30:11. > :30:13.helping with distributing food, they have family, children, and we have

:30:14. > :30:21.no idea where they are, so we need to know what is going on with the

:30:22. > :30:24.detainees. Haid, what do you want to come out of the conference today,

:30:25. > :30:28.there is talk about raising a huge amount of money to help those in

:30:29. > :30:35.need of help? First full I want to thank the UK for what they did, it

:30:36. > :30:40.is extremely helpful. But what we have been seeing here is talks on

:30:41. > :30:45.the humanitarian level. I think what we need to do is work on two

:30:46. > :30:50.different aspects on top of this, the first one is to work on the

:30:51. > :30:53.protection of refugees and Syrians outside of Syria, in Lebanon I was

:30:54. > :30:58.not able to renew my residency so I had to leave will stop many people

:30:59. > :31:03.cannot leave Lebanon because they have nowhere else to go, they are

:31:04. > :31:13.trapped within Lebanon, more than 800,000 Syrians don't have legal

:31:14. > :31:16.residency, Lebanon in January 20 12th imposed new regulations and are

:31:17. > :31:20.not allowing Syrians to do that because you have to pay around $200.

:31:21. > :31:26.So when you talk about protection, what do you mean? A legal framework

:31:27. > :31:30.in order to, first of all, acknowledge that they are refugees

:31:31. > :31:34.in those countries. Until now, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey don't say

:31:35. > :31:39.that we are refugees, they say we are guests. We need to focus on

:31:40. > :31:44.having legal frameworks to acknowledge that we have refugees

:31:45. > :31:48.and to acknowledge the rise and the things the refugees have to do.

:31:49. > :31:54.Protection of civilians inside Syria is an issue. What we have been

:31:55. > :31:57.talking about here, about the barrel bombs and indiscriminate attacks, we

:31:58. > :32:00.have to stop this from happening, we have to guarantee that humanitarian

:32:01. > :32:03.aid will be have to guarantee that humanitarian

:32:04. > :32:07.besieged areas, 52 have to guarantee that humanitarian

:32:08. > :32:10.49 are besieged by the Assad regime. We are talking about one million

:32:11. > :32:17.people who don't have access to food. We need to do something about

:32:18. > :32:20.it. The UN has resolutions, more than three resolutions, that give

:32:21. > :32:23.them the justification, the legal justification in order to go

:32:24. > :32:27.them the justification, the legal those people without even an

:32:28. > :32:31.approval from the Syrian regime, but they are not able to do that because

:32:32. > :32:34.they think it's risky in order to do that without the regime guaranteeing

:32:35. > :32:41.that they'll not be attacked. So what we need here is to have food to

:32:42. > :32:45.be airdropped to those people because they are saying it's not

:32:46. > :32:54.possible. We have to look at other options. Let's, the UN have been

:32:55. > :32:58.dropping assistance to besieged areas for years or to hard-to-reach

:32:59. > :33:02.areas, so let's start doing this in order to give those people at least

:33:03. > :33:06.the hope that international community and those countries are

:33:07. > :33:12.willing to go and help you when there is a need for that.

:33:13. > :33:17.At a time when every country is bombing Syria, including the UK, why

:33:18. > :33:25.it's easy to decide to throw bombs on Syrian people when it's very hard

:33:26. > :33:28.and reluctant to drop food? If I may, Joanne narks I would like to go

:33:29. > :33:34.back to today's conference and to link it to the ground. Today we are

:33:35. > :33:40.pledging funds. Actually, a colleague of mine who works on the

:33:41. > :33:44.ground was saying yesterday that we are speaking today of improving

:33:45. > :33:47.education, providing education to children, but actually what happens

:33:48. > :33:51.is, a school is set up, you know, on the ground, all is good, children

:33:52. > :33:56.start to attend. Then suddenly the school is bombed. Everything is lost

:33:57. > :34:00.and we have to restart. So, unless we tackle the problem at the root,

:34:01. > :34:06.even if we get all the funds that... But this is about schools in

:34:07. > :34:11.neighbouring countries? ? No, on the ground in Syria. OK. So unless we

:34:12. > :34:16.tackle the problem at the root, even if we get all the funds pledged,

:34:17. > :34:20.we'll need double the amount next year because the crisis is growing.

:34:21. > :34:26.That's one thing. Another important point that I would like to really

:34:27. > :34:32.stress on is the importance, and I can't stress enough on the

:34:33. > :34:37.importance, putting the Syrians at the forefront of either to find

:34:38. > :34:44.their needs, their prytys, how the funds should be spent and in the

:34:45. > :34:54.implementation of the projects on the ground, because no-one else

:34:55. > :34:59.knows Syria better than Syrians -- priorities, how the funds should be

:35:00. > :35:02.spent. In order to find peace on the ground, it has to come from Syrians

:35:03. > :35:07.itself. The British Government believes the focus should be on

:35:08. > :35:12.helping people in the region, rather than allowing more refugees to come

:35:13. > :35:16.to this country, the numbers here would be 20,000 over five years. How

:35:17. > :35:19.do you see that debate? Do you think that the British Government is right

:35:20. > :35:24.to say that the most important thing is to give people in the region that

:35:25. > :35:31.they don't want to leave? I think it's a double responsibility. Now

:35:32. > :35:34.it's a reality. People are fleeing, are leaving, are throwing

:35:35. > :35:37.themselveses in the sea you know, risking their lives. We should

:35:38. > :35:42.tackle this problem. There is no point of just ignoring that and

:35:43. > :35:47.pretending that, well it's not the problem, we can't help them stay in

:35:48. > :35:52.the region because the neighbouring countries can't take endless

:35:53. > :35:58.numbers. Like in Lebanon, there are almost, you know, now... One third.

:35:59. > :36:01.Yes, one third of the population, so they are burdening the neighbouring

:36:02. > :36:08.countries. One third of the total population? No, no, one third of the

:36:09. > :36:13.Lebanese population because Lebanon has around 4 million Lebanese and

:36:14. > :36:17.you have 1.2 or 1.3 million Syrian refugees. A third of the population

:36:18. > :36:24.of the countries are refugees now, you see, so we need actually to work

:36:25. > :36:28.in parallel on both helping them by stopping the root of the conflict,

:36:29. > :36:35.that would be in my opinion the best thing to do. They'll stop fleeing

:36:36. > :36:41.their countries. No-one wants to leave their homes, you know, they'd

:36:42. > :36:45.rather stay if they can. My parents are still inside Syria, they don't

:36:46. > :36:49.want to leave, although it's extremely difficult. So are my

:36:50. > :36:57.parents. You see, that would be the ideal thing, but then, until then,

:36:58. > :37:10.there is no point of just denying those that are willing to leave a

:37:11. > :37:13.safe passage to reach the EU or elsewhere because it's not making

:37:14. > :37:18.any sense. These are human beings, their lives are important as well.

:37:19. > :37:24.Give them rights once they reach here. Thank you. We are out of time

:37:25. > :37:29.unfortunately, but we appreciate you all coming in. Thank you very much.

:37:30. > :37:37.Just to tell you, we are hearing, ahead of that conference, Germany's

:37:38. > :37:41.made a new pledge of 1.2 billion euro for Syria. That will go some

:37:42. > :37:44.way to help hitting the target that they are hoping to raise at the

:37:45. > :37:51.conference. We'll have more coverage a little later.

:37:52. > :37:54.Still to come today; does more need to be done to help families

:37:55. > :38:06.The MP discovered bereavement services were patchy.

:38:07. > :38:08.The BBC understands that a United Nations panel investigating

:38:09. > :38:12.whether Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully

:38:13. > :38:14.detained' at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

:38:15. > :38:18.Mr Assange took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy more

:38:19. > :38:21.than three and a half years ago to avoid extradition to Sweden.

:38:22. > :38:24.An official announcement is due tomorrow.

:38:25. > :38:35.Our correspondent Richard Lister is outside the embassy.

:38:36. > :38:41.Explain more, Richard - why was the UN looking at this and specifically

:38:42. > :38:49.what was it looking at, because he took the decision to walk into the

:38:50. > :38:56.embassy there? Yes he did but the Equadorian

:38:57. > :39:00.government gave him political asylum meaning in theory he should be able

:39:01. > :39:05.to go to Ecuador and live there without fear of being extradited to

:39:06. > :39:09.the US which of course is Mr Assange's greatest concern because

:39:10. > :39:13.the FBI is looking into his release of sensitive information through his

:39:14. > :39:18.WikiLeaks group. Now, that's the case as far as Mr Assange is

:39:19. > :39:22.concerned, he said he should be free to go to Ecuador but the moment he

:39:23. > :39:25.sets foot outside this embassy, he'd be arrest sod he asked the UN

:39:26. > :39:28.working group to look into whether or not his rights have been

:39:29. > :39:32.infringed and the BBC understands they'll say tomorrow that yes, his

:39:33. > :39:35.rights as somebody who's been granted political asylum have been

:39:36. > :39:40.infringed, he should be allowed to go to Ecuador. Therefore many

:39:41. > :39:44.Assange will say to the government, you need to give me my passport,

:39:45. > :39:49.assure me that I won't be extradited to Sweden or the US and let me go to

:39:50. > :39:53.Ecuador. The UK is not legally bound by the decisions of this working

:39:54. > :39:56.group and already today, the police have said if Mr Assange sets foot

:39:57. > :40:04.outside the embassy, he will be arrested. So what will happen?

:40:05. > :40:08.Wing we are looking at a stalemate frankly Joanna, more of the same. Mr

:40:09. > :40:14.Assange knows he'll be arrested if he leaves this embassy where he's

:40:15. > :40:17.been since June 2012 and the UK Government's said so far that they

:40:18. > :40:21.have an obligation to arrest him because he's skipped his bail

:40:22. > :40:25.conditions and also because they plan to extradite him to Sweden who

:40:26. > :40:30.want to question him in relation to the sexual assault allegations. I

:40:31. > :40:33.think we are looking at a stalemate unless Mr Assange says he's had

:40:34. > :40:37.enough in there or unless the British Government decides that it

:40:38. > :40:39.will abide by this ruling by the UN when it's made public tomorrow.

:40:40. > :40:43.Thank you very much. With me is Vaughan Smith,

:40:44. > :40:46.a good friend of Julian Assange, who allowed him to seek refuge

:40:47. > :40:55.in his home in 2010. What do you think about the latest

:40:56. > :40:58.development? Well, I hadn't heard that the decision had been in Julian

:40:59. > :41:02.Assange's favour, I've just heard that now on your programme and I'm

:41:03. > :41:07.absolutely thrilled if that's the case. I want to see this matter

:41:08. > :41:10.resolved, I think we all need to see this matter resolved. It's

:41:11. > :41:13.unacceptable to have Julian Assange sitting in this embassy in this

:41:14. > :41:18.manner. It doesn't change anything though

:41:19. > :41:21.does it, because it doesn't have any authority over the UK authorities? I

:41:22. > :41:25.hope it does change something. Actually I do think it does change

:41:26. > :41:29.something, it certainly changes something in the international

:41:30. > :41:33.opinion about him. This is the highest authority that Julian

:41:34. > :41:40.Assange can appeal to, you know. It's a tribunal that's effectively

:41:41. > :41:47.determined in favour a Washington Post journalist detained in Iran,

:41:48. > :41:52.Aung San Suu Kyi. If they cherry pick, aren't they doing what they

:41:53. > :41:55.are accusing Julian Assange of, of ignoring situations that don't suit

:41:56. > :42:00.us. I hope Julian Assange gets freedom. Effectively what happens if

:42:01. > :42:03.this decision is as you have reported it, he's been reported as a

:42:04. > :42:07.dissident and maybe we don't like them in our country, maybe we like

:42:08. > :42:12.to see them elsewhere. But he put himself in detention in the embassy

:42:13. > :42:15.because he wanted to avoid extradition and the prospect of

:42:16. > :42:23.criminal proceedings? He claims asylum. He got diplomatic asylum so

:42:24. > :42:26.he's reek newsed... But not for political reasons is it, it was

:42:27. > :42:31.related to potential charges? No, no, no, that's the way it's been

:42:32. > :42:34.presented but I contest that. Interestingly, the legislation that

:42:35. > :42:40.he was extradited on has completely changed. If he was to go through it

:42:41. > :42:45.now, he wouldn't be extradited, it's highly unlikely. How do you contest

:42:46. > :42:49.that it wasn't to do with allegations made against him in

:42:50. > :42:56.Sweden, rather than... Well, he has claimed that they are politically

:42:57. > :43:03.motivated and that actually they're completely unfair. He was granted

:43:04. > :43:05.political asylum by Ecuador and consequently now, this tribunal's

:43:06. > :43:09.apparently found in his favour, they have looked at the facts completely

:43:10. > :43:14.independently. We should recognise it. You can't just hark back to the

:43:15. > :43:17.idea that we are going to cherry pick this, that it's OK for a

:43:18. > :43:20.dissident in another country but when we've got one here and the

:43:21. > :43:23.international tribunal determine that, that we can't recognise it, of

:43:24. > :43:27.course we should recognise it. What sort of country are we? ! It does

:43:28. > :43:32.look like the stalemate will continue? I hope not. That he'll

:43:33. > :43:37.remain in that embassy? It's appalling if that's the case, I

:43:38. > :43:40.really hope not. Surely as a country, you know, we participated

:43:41. > :43:43.in the working group. Our country and the Swedes submitted evidence so

:43:44. > :43:48.we have recognised the process, surely we recognise the UN, why

:43:49. > :43:53.can't we abide by its rulings when we are accusing Julian Assange... A

:43:54. > :43:58.quick word on him as a friend and how he is having lived in that

:43:59. > :44:03.confinement for this time? I think his health is poor. When I last saw

:44:04. > :44:09.him, he said it was much worse than prison because he had no access to

:44:10. > :44:14.outside space at all. So I must say, he's quite pail and rather unhealthy

:44:15. > :44:19.and I think he's suffered horribly -- pale. I think it's time for us to

:44:20. > :44:23.acknowledge that we have a dissident in our country and we've got to let

:44:24. > :44:27.him free. Vaughan Smith, thank you very much.

:44:28. > :44:35.Let's get the latest weather update with Carol Kirkwood.

:44:36. > :44:42.You are a long way over there. I should run over.

:44:43. > :44:43.What is happening with the weather? The weather has been so up and down

:44:44. > :44:48.this week. I am The weather has been so up and down

:44:49. > :44:53.lot of it has to do with the jet stream. We talk about the jet stream

:44:54. > :44:59.often, a ribbon of fast-moving air, 30,000 feet up in the atmosphere

:45:00. > :45:04.roughly where planes fly and it will help you get back from America on a

:45:05. > :45:10.plane than it helps you get there. You can see how it's undulating at

:45:11. > :45:12.the moment. The jet stream is the boundary layer between warm and cold

:45:13. > :45:15.air and the bigger boundary layer between warm and cold

:45:16. > :45:17.in the temperature, the bigger the boundary layer between warm and cold

:45:18. > :45:18.jet stream. We talked about this when we were talking about

:45:19. > :45:26.jet stream. We talked about this that. You can see some big kinks in

:45:27. > :45:31.that jet stream, so that shows that it is very mobile. What you find in

:45:32. > :45:33.kinks like that, we have got low pressure

:45:34. > :45:36.kinks like that, we have got low have been rattling across the

:45:37. > :45:56.It also depends on the other direction

:45:57. > :45:56.It also depends on the the wind, low pressure dominating

:45:57. > :46:01.today, the wind coming from the wind, low pressure dominating

:46:02. > :46:04.direction, coming straight the wind, low pressure dominating

:46:05. > :46:07.Atlantic, from the seals, but also dragging a lot of cloud. I

:46:08. > :46:12.Atlantic, from the seals, but also have made that simple enough!

:46:13. > :46:15.Basically it will continue being changeable for a while? Right into

:46:16. > :46:25.the weekend it will be changeable and into next week as well. It

:46:26. > :46:30.causes trouble with what to wear! Today, though, it is fairly cloudy.

:46:31. > :46:34.We have got some beautiful pictures sent in by our weather Watchers,

:46:35. > :46:38.this is one from London earlier today, standard for what it is like

:46:39. > :46:43.in many parts of the UK although we do have some rain around. As I was

:46:44. > :46:48.saying to Joanna, it is mild, that milder air filtering steadily

:46:49. > :46:52.northwards. Usurping the cold air some of us had already this morning

:46:53. > :46:55.but not yet across Scotland and the far north of England. We had a

:46:56. > :47:00.weather front going through, taking rain with it, milder air following

:47:01. > :47:05.from that. A second introducing some rain as well, not particularly

:47:06. > :47:09.heavy. Later we will see heavy rain from the Atlantic. It is also

:47:10. > :47:16.breezy, as you can tell from the spacing on the isobars. A lot of

:47:17. > :47:25.cloud this morning, some breaks likely, down towards Kent and the

:47:26. > :47:29.East of Northern Ireland. Even into the afternoon you can see some

:47:30. > :47:33.showers across Wales and south-west England, a lot of cloud around,

:47:34. > :47:37.cloud generally across southern counties of England and into East

:47:38. > :47:42.Anglia, the Midlands, heading into northern England as well. Also the

:47:43. > :47:45.rain across northern England moving west to east, showers from Northern

:47:46. > :47:49.Ireland, the best chance of a break will be in the East. This rain

:47:50. > :47:54.moving steadily eastwards across Scotland, but look at the difference

:47:55. > :47:58.in the temperatures between West and North East, OP two in the Northern

:47:59. > :48:04.Isles this afternoon. Eventually the milder air will get into the

:48:05. > :48:07.Northern Isles. Tonight, cloudy and damp, then a can hear red band of

:48:08. > :48:11.rain across western Scotland and Northern Ireland in the shape of

:48:12. > :48:17.another weather front, and the wind. Them. Not a particularly cold night

:48:18. > :48:22.in prospect. That leads us into tomorrow morning, not a cold start

:48:23. > :48:26.to the day, and once again tomorrow will start on a cloudy note with

:48:27. > :48:31.some drizzle and some showers around. Meanwhile our band of rain

:48:32. > :48:35.across Scotland, northern England, will also move through Northern

:48:36. > :48:39.Ireland, heading slowly southwards. It may lead to localised flooding

:48:40. > :48:45.across south-west Scotland, some heavy rain as well across Cumbria,

:48:46. > :48:51.for example. Head of it, still a lot of cloud, windy wherever you are,

:48:52. > :48:55.but still relatively mild as well. If we move to the other side of his

:48:56. > :48:56.weather front, you can see it will still be cold enough for some snow

:48:57. > :49:03.on the hills. Hello, I'm Joanna Gosling and this

:49:04. > :49:05.is the Victoria Derbyshire show. Welcome to the programme

:49:06. > :49:07.if you've just joined us. The tragedy of a stillbirth or

:49:08. > :49:15.bereavement just after birth. Support for families whose babies

:49:16. > :49:18.are stillborn or die shortly after birth are "not good enough" -

:49:19. > :49:21.that's the view of a Government minister after an investigation

:49:22. > :49:32.for this programme revealed There is a real value in the

:49:33. > :49:33.treatment suites and bereavement midwives, and a real need for a

:49:34. > :49:40.bereavement hatchway. -- pathway. That was the Conservative MP

:49:41. > :49:42.Antoinette Sandbach. In a special investigation for this

:49:43. > :49:46.programme she meets the people determined to bring bereaved

:49:47. > :49:55.parents better support. David Cameron promises an extra ?1.2

:49:56. > :50:00.billion of aid for Syrian refugees. The money will go towards helping

:50:01. > :50:03.those who fled to Syria's neighbouring countries. We will be

:50:04. > :50:05.at a conference in London into the crisis this morning where more than

:50:06. > :50:09.70 world leaders are gathering. And the mum who took

:50:10. > :50:12.the Government to court and won - her son developed a sleep disorder

:50:13. > :50:38.from a swine flu jab, Germany has joined the UK in

:50:39. > :50:40.pledging extra funding for Syrian refugees have fled the Civil War.

:50:41. > :50:43.The UK is to double its funding for Syrian refugees who have fled

:50:44. > :50:47.It's pledging an extra ?1.2 billion to help those in camps in Jordan,

:50:48. > :50:51.70 countries meet in London this morning for a conference

:50:52. > :50:53.The energy regulator is to investigate allegations

:50:54. > :50:56.that the charity Age UK has been selling unfavourable gas

:50:57. > :50:58.and electricity deals to elderly people in return for money.

:50:59. > :51:00.It concerns a relationship with the energy supplier E.ON.

:51:01. > :51:05.A murder inquiry's begun after a man was shot dead during an attempted

:51:06. > :51:06.robbery at a Birmingham warehouse last night.

:51:07. > :51:13.Our correspondent Peter Wilson is at the scene. What happened?

:51:14. > :51:17.There is a murder investigation, West Midlands forensic teams have

:51:18. > :51:23.just arrived here in the dig the area of the city. Last night at

:51:24. > :51:30.6:40pm police were called, and they found the company director, 56 years

:51:31. > :51:37.old, lying in the road just behind me here. He had been shot by two

:51:38. > :51:41.masked men. Police said they don't know what type of firearm at this

:51:42. > :51:46.stage was used, they are appealing for anyone with information to come

:51:47. > :51:52.forward. It was at the height of the city's rush-hour, and his family

:51:53. > :51:56.have been informed. Police liaison teams are with them and at the

:51:57. > :51:59.moment the murder investigation is in full swing.

:52:00. > :52:02.The BBC understands that a UN panel investigating whether WikiLeaks

:52:03. > :52:03.founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully detained'

:52:04. > :52:06.at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

:52:07. > :52:08.Mr Assange says he expects to be able to walk free

:52:09. > :52:11.from the Ecuadorian embassy, where he took refuge over three

:52:12. > :52:14.years ago, if the news is confirmed.

:52:15. > :52:19.A Government minister has told this programme that bereavement services,

:52:20. > :52:21.for families whose children are stillborn or die shortly

:52:22. > :52:28.It follows an investigation by the Conservative MP

:52:29. > :52:29.Antoinette Sandbach, who found services were 'patchy'

:52:30. > :52:34.with some parents unable to get help.

:52:35. > :52:37.John Watson has all the sport for us now, and news of Tyson Fury throwing

:52:38. > :52:47.Yes, a bit of a surprise, certainly not what we would have expected.

:52:48. > :52:51.Three months after becoming world heavyweight boxing champion

:52:52. > :52:57.Tyson Fury has threatened to quit the sport.

:52:58. > :53:03.In an interview with BBC Radio 5 Live this morning he says he's

:53:04. > :53:05.struggling to get motivated after his victory

:53:06. > :53:07.over Vladimir Klitschko in Dusseldorf back in November.

:53:08. > :53:10.He says he doesn't want the only reason to fight to be

:53:11. > :53:12.about the money, and still isn't sure whether he'll fight

:53:13. > :53:14.the Ukrainian boxer in a planned rematch in May.

:53:15. > :53:20.I don't know what I'm going to do at the moment. I haven't even cemented

:53:21. > :53:23.that I'm going to fight in a rematch, there is speculation about

:53:24. > :53:29.the rematch but it is even if I want to go ahead and fight again. I could

:53:30. > :53:33.walk away, Sail away into the sunset unbeaten, just live a normal life.

:53:34. > :53:36.It is what I decide to do, and I haven't decided yet.

:53:37. > :53:38.Newcastle United spent ?29 million on new players

:53:39. > :53:49.And that's from a club third from bottom in the Premier League.

:53:50. > :53:52.If Newcastle hoped that would lift them out of the danger zone,

:53:53. > :53:54.they were left disappointed as they were beaten 3-0

:53:55. > :53:58.It was a local lad who had the biggest say on the outcome,

:53:59. > :53:59.Everton midfielder Ross Barkley scoring twice.

:54:00. > :54:01.His second a cheeky chip from a penalty.

:54:02. > :54:04.With a massive TV deal kicking in next season,

:54:05. > :54:05.avoiding relegation has never been more important.

:54:06. > :54:07.Whether Newcastle can spend their way out of trouble

:54:08. > :54:17.Chelsea's topsy-turvy season shows signs of improvement.

:54:18. > :54:20.Since Jose Mouinho's sacking, they've gone on a seven

:54:21. > :54:23.Diego Costa came closest as they were held to a goalless

:54:24. > :54:36.Second-placed Aberdeen's win over table-toppers

:54:37. > :54:42.The goal of the game came from Jonny Hayes

:54:43. > :54:45.with this goal from 25 yards in a 2-1 win that trims the gap

:54:46. > :54:48.at the top of the Premiership to three points.

:54:49. > :54:50.The Super League season begins tonight, and it's been far

:54:51. > :54:54.from ideal preparation for champions

:54:55. > :54:56.Leeds Rhinos, who still haven't been able to return to their training

:54:57. > :54:58.pitches after they were flooded in December.

:54:59. > :55:00.They begin the defence of their title later,

:55:01. > :55:04.Despite the obvious disruption to their pre season plans,

:55:05. > :55:06.Jamie Jones Buchanan says some good has come out of their predicament.

:55:07. > :55:14.When you're training ground gets uprooted by a torrent of water, it

:55:15. > :55:18.is difficult, obviously. Our full training ground has been destroyed,

:55:19. > :55:26.we're finding alternative grounds to do our few sessions, which hasn't

:55:27. > :55:32.been too bad. We have built a lot of bridges, got a lot of friends, no

:55:33. > :55:36.shortage of invites, so we have used some local commercial gyms, private

:55:37. > :55:41.James, and the best thing for me was being back in my amateur club,

:55:42. > :55:45.getting a nostalgic feel training where it all started.

:55:46. > :56:00.Katie Swan became Britain's youngest ever Fed Cup player at the age of 16

:56:01. > :56:06.Hello, thank you for joining us this morning.

:56:07. > :56:08.Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

:56:09. > :56:11.We're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until 11am.

:56:12. > :56:13.Your contributions are really welcome to our programme.

:56:14. > :56:15.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:56:16. > :56:17.Wherever you are you can watch our programme online

:56:18. > :56:24.via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:56:25. > :56:28.A Government minister has admitted to this programme that bereavement

:56:29. > :56:30.services for families whose babies are stillborn or die shortly

:56:31. > :56:36.It follows an investigation for us by the Conservative MP

:56:37. > :56:38.Antoinette Sandbach who found services were "patchy",

:56:39. > :56:42.with some parents unable to access help.

:56:43. > :56:44.You might remember that in 2009 Antoinette's son Sam died

:56:45. > :56:51.In an emotional speech, she told the House of Commons

:56:52. > :56:53.there was no bereavement counselling available where she lived

:56:54. > :56:57.and she only got help when a charity paid for a counsellor

:56:58. > :57:05.At the moment it is up to hospital trusts to decide what kind

:57:06. > :57:09.of bereavement support they offer parents and,

:57:10. > :57:11.as Antoinette has discovered for this programme,

:57:12. > :57:14.In a moment we'll talk to Antoinette, but first

:57:15. > :57:22.I'm Antoinette Sandbach, MP, and I spoke in the House of Commons

:57:23. > :57:27.The night my son died I woke to find him not breathing.

:57:28. > :57:30.Arriving at hospital looking at a flat line in the ambulance

:57:31. > :57:32.for over 20 minutes, a crash team was waiting for me,

:57:33. > :57:46.We will support any bereaved parents that can get to us

:57:47. > :57:57.What we found, there are lots of areas which do not

:57:58. > :58:02.Some parents have said if it wasn't for counselling and support,

:58:03. > :58:05.they feel they would have been on medication for maybe a long time.

:58:06. > :58:07.That was my experience, I was offered medication

:58:08. > :58:10.I felt I was grieving, not depressed.

:58:11. > :58:29.As soon as we left the hospital, there

:58:30. > :58:43.I was so upset because I just needed the support, very early,

:58:44. > :58:46.and I was getting no, no, no, because she was too old,

:58:47. > :58:48.too young, did not die of the right thing.

:58:49. > :58:54.Minister, it is clear that those parents who arrived at hospital

:58:55. > :58:58.following on from a sudden infant death often don't have access

:58:59. > :59:05.The problem is a smaller one than it was some years ago,

:59:06. > :59:12.You might have some hospitals where there is a good bereavement

:59:13. > :59:21.suite but there is not a full-time bereavement nurse,

:59:22. > :59:23.where there might not be good counselling after the death,

:59:24. > :59:26.so we need to make sure that we have a really joined up

:59:27. > :59:31.so that we provide consistent support and help to mothers

:59:32. > :59:34.It has been quite difficult and emotional for me,

:59:35. > :59:36.this journey, but I'm absolutely determined to fight with others

:59:37. > :59:39.to make sure that those improvements are made and made for people

:59:40. > :59:48.You can watch and share that film online via our programme page.

:59:49. > :59:53.And if you need support after watching Antoinette's story

:59:54. > :59:57.there are details on how to get help there, too.

:59:58. > :59:59.You can also ring the Child Death Helpline -

:00:00. > :00:10.You can contact them on 0800 282 986.

:00:11. > :00:17.And when it is with me in the studio. First, let's go to David

:00:18. > :00:21.Cameron, talking about Syria ahead of that conference.

:00:22. > :00:25.Maintain services and create jobs for their own people. As we all

:00:26. > :00:30.know, the long-term solution to the crisis in Syria can only be reached

:00:31. > :00:34.with a political transition to a new Government that meets the needs of

:00:35. > :00:39.all its people, and we must continue to work towards that, however

:00:40. > :00:43.difficult it may be. While we pursue a solution to this horrific

:00:44. > :00:47.conflict, we can also take vital steps now which will make a real

:00:48. > :00:58.difference to people's lives today and long into the future. We can

:00:59. > :01:00.provide the help that Syrians need with pledges of aid, food and

:01:01. > :01:02.medical supplies that will quite literally saved lives this year and

:01:03. > :01:06.in the years ahead. We can provide refugees with the opportunities and

:01:07. > :01:09.skills they need to make a life for themselves and their families in

:01:10. > :01:12.their host communities, giving them a viable alternative to remain in

:01:13. > :01:14.the region and equipping them for the date they can eventually return

:01:15. > :01:24.home to We can support the host countries

:01:25. > :01:27.that are showing huge generosity in providing refuge to Syrians with no

:01:28. > :01:32.choice but to flee destruction. Before we turn to the steps we can

:01:33. > :01:36.take together, take a moment to remind ourselves just what five

:01:37. > :01:38.years of conflict has meant for Syria and for the millions of people

:01:39. > :01:54.who're suffering as a result. We'll leave that conference now,

:01:55. > :01:58.that is the opening of the international donor conference in

:01:59. > :02:01.London, hoping to raise ?6.2 billion for those affected by the war in

:02:02. > :02:06.Syria. We'll have more on that a little later. Let's return to our

:02:07. > :02:10.discussion about the sort of care that is available for parents after

:02:11. > :02:15.they lose a baby, whether it's through stillbirth or shortly after

:02:16. > :02:17.the child was born at a very young stage in their lives.

:02:18. > :02:21.Let's talk now to Dot Smith, head of maternity, Medway Maritime

:02:22. > :02:26.Judith Abela, acting chief executive of the Sands charity.

:02:27. > :02:29.Antoinette Sandbach, Conservative MP, whose son died

:02:30. > :02:38.And Annika Dowson, whose daughter was stillborn.

:02:39. > :02:44.Thank you all for joining us. Antoinette, just heartbreaking to

:02:45. > :02:50.watch you talking in the Commons about what you went through. Tell us

:02:51. > :02:56.about your experience, if you will, going back to the moment after you

:02:57. > :02:59.discovered Sam was dead? You went to the hospital. What was it like and

:03:00. > :03:04.what help was available for you? Well, the crash team were waiting

:03:05. > :03:07.for me but it became apparent quite quickly that they were unable to

:03:08. > :03:12.help and I was put in a room that I would describe as a waiting room, a

:03:13. > :03:19.sofa and two chairs, very plain walls and left there for quite a

:03:20. > :03:25.long time. At the hospital, I was given a leaflet from the a charity

:03:26. > :03:28.and ultimately it was that leaflet that I contacted the charity several

:03:29. > :03:35.days after, but I spent four-and-a-half hours in that room

:03:36. > :03:39.and didn't really get a huge amount of support. I had to wait for the

:03:40. > :03:46.police and it was a very difficult time. I think that's what's

:03:47. > :03:50.motivated me to try and see what the best practise is out there so it's

:03:51. > :03:55.been lovely to meet Dot on this journey and see how well Medway are

:03:56. > :04:00.doing and also to go to Alder Hey who have fantastic services

:04:01. > :04:03.available, the really kind of gold standard service that should be

:04:04. > :04:08.available elsewhere in the country. Tell us more about what it was that

:04:09. > :04:12.took you on that path from that intense personal grief to a

:04:13. > :04:18.determination that nobody should have to experience the sort of thing

:04:19. > :04:23.you had? Well, really, I got so much support through counselling. But it

:04:24. > :04:26.took time to come? Yes and it was only because of the charity that

:04:27. > :04:31.funded it and commissioned it from Alder Hey that I was able to access

:04:32. > :04:35.that counselling because that support wasn't available in Wales

:04:36. > :04:41.where I was then living. I think if you heard what Amelia was saying

:04:42. > :04:47.about being told by various people that she wasn't suitable for support

:04:48. > :04:52.from their charity because her circumstances weren't right,

:04:53. > :04:55.actually what's clear is that, as the minister identified, is a clear

:04:56. > :05:00.pathway and I'm really delighted we have the political will now from the

:05:01. > :05:03.Department of Health to look at it and a substantial funding

:05:04. > :05:08.commitment. That gives us a really important opportunity to get things

:05:09. > :05:12.right. Annika, your daughter Gypsy was

:05:13. > :05:18.stillborn in 2008. How were you treated in the hospital through that

:05:19. > :05:22.traumatic time? The medical staff, the midwives and everything, they

:05:23. > :05:26.were really good and very supportive, but the room that I was

:05:27. > :05:32.actually in was at the end of a corridor of the maternity unit and

:05:33. > :05:37.in the same corridor was the theatre. I was in the room for three

:05:38. > :05:42.days an in those days I could hear the mums in the rooms adjacent to me

:05:43. > :05:47.giving birth and I could hear the babies' screams which was really

:05:48. > :05:52.hard. I know when I was in labour, I was in a lot of pain and I needed a

:05:53. > :05:55.midwife but I could also hear a mum screaming and she needed help and

:05:56. > :06:00.knowing that she was having a live baby, I told the midwife to go to

:06:01. > :06:05.her and she came back half an hour later and Gypsy's head was already

:06:06. > :06:08.coming out. I didn't feel that... I was important enough is the wrong

:06:09. > :06:14.word but that's how I felt and that that mum needed the care. Now if the

:06:15. > :06:16.room hadn't haven't have been there, I wouldn't have known that. Maybe

:06:17. > :06:22.then I would have felt I was important to ask for that midwife to

:06:23. > :06:26.help me through that pain. I've no doubt that they would have stayed,

:06:27. > :06:31.it's just how I felt. Dot, Antoinette has already spoken of you

:06:32. > :06:38.and the work that you do. Listening to what happened to Annika, it's

:06:39. > :06:41.just heart-breaking hearing women who've been athletic through these

:06:42. > :06:46.experiences. It sounds like a simple thing that could be put right, not

:06:47. > :06:50.having the women in an environment where they can hear other women

:06:51. > :06:54.giving birth? When I listen to the stories, it resonates with the

:06:55. > :06:58.stories that local women tell us at Medway. We have come through a long

:06:59. > :07:01.journey, we are still on it, we have made some mistakes but also learnt

:07:02. > :07:05.from the feedback to get the mistakes corrected. I think that's

:07:06. > :07:10.where we are now, in that position where our services are being

:07:11. > :07:14.developed in response to what the women tell us, what... So you have

:07:15. > :07:21.sound proofed the bereavement programme? Absolutely. So our women

:07:22. > :07:26.have told us the same story as Annika's just told us. Equally ewe

:07:27. > :07:29.had an inspection from the Care Quality Commission that criticised

:07:30. > :07:34.the facilities in 2013 and we were really lucky that our Trust

:07:35. > :07:38.supported us in the developments, so we refurbished our suite which is on

:07:39. > :07:41.the delivery suite but totally sound proofed now, it enables the woman to

:07:42. > :07:46.have that dignity and privacy in what she deserves is a really

:07:47. > :07:49.traumatic experience. We heard from Ben Gummer that even sometimes when

:07:50. > :07:52.the infrastructure is in place, the staff are not in place. What are the

:07:53. > :07:56.staffing levels and do you have the resources? We have worked really

:07:57. > :08:00.hard to look at how we can best support both the mothers going

:08:01. > :08:03.through the experience but equally the midwives that support them on

:08:04. > :08:07.that journey so we have been really lucky to be able to fund a

:08:08. > :08:11.bereavement midwife who has the support of admin staff because it's

:08:12. > :08:17.a multifaceted path way that we need to address. Her function is really

:08:18. > :08:23.around supporting the mother, having been direct contact for her but

:08:24. > :08:27.equally training the midwives in best to support... Could all

:08:28. > :08:32.Merseyside wives not be trained for this... That's... If there's one in

:08:33. > :08:36.particular covering everybody, it's obviously a limitation? That's

:08:37. > :08:40.exactly what our approach is. We have a bereavement midwife who

:08:41. > :08:44.facilitates the training for all our midwives in our unit so whichever

:08:45. > :08:48.midwife is allocated to that woman, she has got an insight and

:08:49. > :08:53.understanding how best to support the lady having her baby and that

:08:54. > :09:02.mother in her experience going through the bereavement pathway.

:09:03. > :09:05.Judith, your charity's fundamental in supporting hospitals in providing

:09:06. > :09:09.what the hospitals need isn't it? Yes. Do you think that's right that

:09:10. > :09:14.charities are stepping in? I think it's very difficult. Obviously, it's

:09:15. > :09:21.a huge resource that's needed to be able to get the standard needed

:09:22. > :09:24.across the country. At the moment, the charity sector is plugging a lot

:09:25. > :09:29.of that gap. You can see the amazing work that can happen at the unit,

:09:30. > :09:32.but it's still too inconsistent and, unless charities are there at the

:09:33. > :09:37.moment, then nothing will happen to improve the standard of care. We are

:09:38. > :09:41.able to start working and develop the work that we have been doing

:09:42. > :09:45.with the Government to try to get much more funding in place and get

:09:46. > :09:49.consistency across the country. There are simple things that can be

:09:50. > :09:53.done to improve the care for my bereaved parent, it doesn't have to

:09:54. > :09:59.take huge resources. What is happening on that funding? I'm

:10:00. > :10:03.delighted that the minister has committed ?350 million to preparing

:10:04. > :10:08.the mental health there and that kind of support will help parents

:10:09. > :10:11.particularly on the counselling pathway following on from leaving

:10:12. > :10:17.the hospital because it's not just what happens at the hospital, it's

:10:18. > :10:21.the after-care following that. Is it right that charities do have to

:10:22. > :10:29.provide the level of support they do? Charities have real specialist

:10:30. > :10:31.expertise and I found, I mean Annika's done amazing work

:10:32. > :10:35.fund-raising for her hospital and parents want to do something in

:10:36. > :10:38.memory of their child and I think what's exciting about what the

:10:39. > :10:43.Government's announcing is that they are trying to work in partnership so

:10:44. > :10:50.that those local initiatives can really thrive and help support,

:10:51. > :10:54.because then there's a top-down thing and it allows parents to get

:10:55. > :10:56.involved and be part of it. I think that's important for the parents

:10:57. > :11:01.too. In the end, there is obviously a

:11:02. > :11:07.point where the medical staff in a hospital have to end what they do

:11:08. > :11:13.and the parents have to move on and get help from elsewhere? How can

:11:14. > :11:17.that be smooth? Well, that is where the value of the bereavement midwife

:11:18. > :11:21.is, very often they'll have linked into the organisations and

:11:22. > :11:24.communities. So it's a case of simple sign-posting then sometimes

:11:25. > :11:28.is it? And commissioning the counselling services. That's where

:11:29. > :11:31.there are real gaps at the moment, that there are not necessarily the

:11:32. > :11:35.counselling services available in the community and I'm very excited

:11:36. > :11:41.about the funding that will now mean that there's the opportunity to

:11:42. > :11:45.commission those services. What is important for midwives to be told in

:11:46. > :11:49.caring for a parent after they've lost a child, because obviously

:11:50. > :11:53.anybody that goes into that profession is caring, but there'll

:11:54. > :11:57.be a right and wrong way to handle something so sensitive? I think one

:11:58. > :12:00.size doesn't fit all and it's understanding how you can speak to a

:12:01. > :12:07.mother and her family and gain a really good connection and then work

:12:08. > :12:10.with her to achieve her choices. Our midwives are trained on actually all

:12:11. > :12:15.the services that we provide so that she can signpost the mother to the

:12:16. > :12:20.next phase. She'll also support her in consent for a very difficult

:12:21. > :12:25.decision on whether to do a postmortem or not, she'll then also

:12:26. > :12:29.support the mother in caring for her baby in the first hours after

:12:30. > :12:32.delivery and it's about actually acknowledging that this is a birth

:12:33. > :12:35.experience, albeit very sad, this woman's going through the same

:12:36. > :12:39.physical processes of having just had a baby and it's being able to

:12:40. > :12:41.put that all into a very individualised package for each

:12:42. > :12:45.woman. That's what the training does, it talks about the difficult

:12:46. > :12:48.conversations that you have to have, it talks about the difficult ways

:12:49. > :12:51.that you manage the whole family to support each and every individual

:12:52. > :12:58.because they're all going through that experience with that mother, so

:12:59. > :13:01.it's really about being very human on this life-influencing journey

:13:02. > :13:06.that will actually resonate and have an impact going forward to the next

:13:07. > :13:11.pregnancies. Also about giving the midwives and any health professional

:13:12. > :13:14.coming into contact with a bereavement family being able to

:13:15. > :13:19.communicate properly. We have done work for a long time with the

:13:20. > :13:23.professionals and it's about the communication skills, making the

:13:24. > :13:26.health professionals aware of the unique impact the death of a baby

:13:27. > :13:30.can have and also helping them support that family and make

:13:31. > :13:34.memories. It's the sign-posting to ongoing support circumstances and

:13:35. > :13:37.the difficult conversations, so it's empowering the midwives to be able

:13:38. > :13:40.to support the families properly. I think a lot of midwives still

:13:41. > :13:45.haven't had access to that training. They still don't have the confidence

:13:46. > :13:49.to be able to work with and support parents properly and, rather than be

:13:50. > :13:53.too scared of saying the wrong thing so they don't say anything, it's

:13:54. > :13:57.about giving them the skills and confidence to be able to go in

:13:58. > :14:03.there, talk to the family and help them through the situation. There is

:14:04. > :14:07.a huge anxiety about midwives getting it wrong. Thank you all very

:14:08. > :14:12.much. Lots of people getting in touch. Tweet from Debra, so much

:14:13. > :14:20.more needs to be done, very moving. Hugh has tweeted saying very

:14:21. > :14:25.important piece on parental bereavement, very dignified and

:14:26. > :14:29.eloquent. Antoinette, I knew nothing of your experience, moved by your

:14:30. > :14:41.stoicism and inspire bid your strength. A ten-year-old has won

:14:42. > :14:47.?120,000 in damages after a swine flu left him with -- swine flu

:14:48. > :14:58.The main news For the this morning: problems. For the

:14:59. > :15:03.Germany has joined the UK with a big new pledge of aid for Syrian

:15:04. > :15:05.Britain's sending an extra ?1.2 billion for millions

:15:06. > :15:08.of people in camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

:15:09. > :15:10.70 countries meet in London this morning for a conference

:15:11. > :15:12.The energy regulator is to investigate allegations

:15:13. > :15:15.that the charity Age UK has been selling unfavourable gas

:15:16. > :15:17.and electricity deals to elderly people in return for money.

:15:18. > :15:20.It concerns a relationship with the energy supplier E.ON.

:15:21. > :15:27.A murder inquiry's begun after a man was shot dead during an attempted

:15:28. > :15:28.robbery at a Birmingham warehouse last night.

:15:29. > :15:38.Our correspondent Peter Wilson is at the scene.

:15:39. > :15:41.sorry, he was earlier, he is not now.

:15:42. > :15:43.The BBC understands that a UN panel investigating whether WikiLeaks

:15:44. > :15:45.founder Julian Assange is 'unlawfully detained'

:15:46. > :15:47.at an embassy in London has ruled in his favour.

:15:48. > :15:50.Mr Assange says he expects to be able to walk free

:15:51. > :15:52.from the Ecuadorian embassy, where he took refuge over three

:15:53. > :15:54.years ago, if the news is confirmed.

:15:55. > :15:56.A Government minister has told this programme that bereavement services,

:15:57. > :15:59.for families whose children are stillborn or die shortly

:16:00. > :16:04.It follows an investigation by the Conservative MP

:16:05. > :16:07.Antoinette Sandbach, who found services were 'patchy'

:16:08. > :16:10.with some parents unable to get help.

:16:11. > :16:19.Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:16:20. > :16:26.Tyson Fury talking about his future? Absolutely, we're not sure if it is

:16:27. > :16:27.a threat or something he will follow through on.

:16:28. > :16:30.Tyson Fury has threatened to quit boxing, just three months

:16:31. > :16:31.after becoming world heavyweight champion.

:16:32. > :16:37.After beating Wladimir Klitchko in Dusseldorf in November,

:16:38. > :16:40.he says he might walk away from the sport and says he's

:16:41. > :16:41.undecided about whether he'll fight Klitchko

:16:42. > :16:45.If Newcastle hoped that spending ?29 million on new players

:16:46. > :16:47.would lift them out of the Premier League relegation

:16:48. > :16:50.zone, they were left disappointed as they were beaten 3-0

:16:51. > :16:58.What a result in Scotland as second placed Aberdeen beat table toppers

:16:59. > :17:01.The goal of the game came from Jonny Hayes,

:17:02. > :17:04.with this goal from 25 yards in a 2-1 win that trims the gap

:17:05. > :17:10.at the top of the Premiership to three points.

:17:11. > :17:20.Katie Swan became Britain's youngest ever Fed Cup player at the age of 16

:17:21. > :17:32.After coming into the team to replace your who is ill at the

:17:33. > :17:38.moment. I'm sure Judy Murray will be delighted.

:17:39. > :17:42.Let's go back to the Syria crisis, David Cameron has made an

:17:43. > :17:46.impassioned plea for more funds to help those fleeing the horrific

:17:47. > :17:49.conflict in Syria. He was speaking at a donor's conference in London

:17:50. > :17:53.which began this morning with delegates from more than 70

:17:54. > :17:56.countries. David Cameron said that displaced people had to be helped to

:17:57. > :18:00.return to their homes. The UK and Germany have announced big increases

:18:01. > :18:04.this morning in their aid the Syrians. Ben Brown is at the

:18:05. > :18:10.conference, we can join him there now.

:18:11. > :18:15.David Cameron in those remarks you showed a few minutes ago was saying

:18:16. > :18:20.there was a need to give those Syrian refugees who are in the camps

:18:21. > :18:23.in countries like Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, countries neighbouring

:18:24. > :18:27.Syria, to give them an opportunity to make a life for themselves. The

:18:28. > :18:31.Syrian war has been going for five years, a brutal civil war, no sign

:18:32. > :18:37.at the moment that it is coming to an end. These people could be in

:18:38. > :18:40.those countries for years to come and the international community in

:18:41. > :18:46.Europe especially is trying to persuade them to stay where they are

:18:47. > :18:49.in the region, not to join the mass flow of migrants into Europe, but

:18:50. > :18:54.one of the ways they are thinking of doing that is to provide more jobs,

:18:55. > :18:59.more educational opportunities for those refugees, 4.5 million refugees

:19:00. > :19:05.in those countries, Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. It is hugely expensive

:19:06. > :19:08.of course, $9 billion is what the international community are being

:19:09. > :19:12.asked to come up with at this conference in London today, but

:19:13. > :19:17.there is huge pressure on those host countries. Jordan in particular,

:19:18. > :19:22.King Abdullah said this week in a BBC interview that, such is the

:19:23. > :19:28.influx of Syrian refugees into his country, the country is at boiling

:19:29. > :19:31.point and there is a dam that could burst at any time, you said, so

:19:32. > :19:38.pressure on the international community to help those countries,

:19:39. > :19:43.to create work for them, schools for the refugee children who are not

:19:44. > :19:45.going to school at the moment. It is expensive and in previous years

:19:46. > :19:52.donor's conferences like this have been asked to donate money and have

:19:53. > :19:55.only managed to get half of what was requested. This time there is an

:19:56. > :20:00.impetus on them to come up with the money they have been asked for.

:20:01. > :20:06.Thank you very much. We can speak now to a Conservative

:20:07. > :20:10.MP who sits on the Commons foreign Affairs Select Committee and have

:20:11. > :20:16.visited camps in Iraq. Also, from Damascus, Pascal, who

:20:17. > :20:21.works for the International committee of the Red Cross.

:20:22. > :20:26.?1.2 billion extra for the British Government, where has that come

:20:27. > :20:29.from? From the Department for International development, Justin

:20:30. > :20:33.Greening was on the airwaves this morning talking about the extra

:20:34. > :20:43.investment of at least ?1.2 billion, which takes our total investment to

:20:44. > :20:47.?2.3 billion. It is not extra money, it is coming from the existing aid

:20:48. > :20:52.budget? People will hear the figure and think, things are tight, where

:20:53. > :21:00.is the money coming from? This isn't just about money, if you look at

:21:01. > :21:07.what refugees go through, the trauma, they need shelter, security,

:21:08. > :21:11.food, medicine, but beyond that what tends to happen, they want work,

:21:12. > :21:16.they don't want hand-outs, they want to work, they want their children to

:21:17. > :21:20.go to school. They begin to think about moving after losing hope, the

:21:21. > :21:25.third year of being in a refugee camp, they think, my child cannot

:21:26. > :21:29.get education, I need an alternative, so what this conference

:21:30. > :21:34.is about is a new way to deliver some real opportunities and jobs,

:21:35. > :21:39.schooling, education. One of our very good ambassadors in the leather

:21:40. > :21:43.nun, Tom Fletcher, started an educational programme in refugee

:21:44. > :21:47.camps. It is that sort of innovation that I think is going to make a huge

:21:48. > :21:50.difference. David Cameron is passionate about this. He said this

:21:51. > :21:54.morning, we have got to tackle the root cause of the problem, the

:21:55. > :21:58.Geneva peace talks. If you cannot get peace

:21:59. > :22:01.Geneva peace talks. If you cannot revisiting this year after

:22:02. > :22:05.Geneva peace talks. If you cannot more and more aid money required, so

:22:06. > :22:13.we need to tackle the root cause. You have got to give these people

:22:14. > :22:17.hope to their communities. You said people will leave after three years,

:22:18. > :22:22.people are already leaving, a billion came to Europe last year.

:22:23. > :22:28.The sort of aid that is going that way to set up the assistance you are

:22:29. > :22:32.talking about is going to take time. In that period, should the UK do

:22:33. > :22:37.more in terms of taking in refugees whose lives are on hold, who are in

:22:38. > :22:41.desperate situations, who are coming to Europe already or will be

:22:42. > :22:48.thinking about it because there is no imminent sign of the relief that

:22:49. > :22:56.you describe? We are already taking 20 thousand people from those camps

:22:57. > :22:59.over five years, last year we took 3500 children through our normal

:23:00. > :23:08.processing of people who require refuge. I spoke to Lord Malloch

:23:09. > :23:12.Brown, one of the signatories of an open letter to the Government this

:23:13. > :23:16.week saying that the figure is simply not good enough. He says it

:23:17. > :23:24.should be more like 100,000 over five years. What is important is the

:23:25. > :23:27.welfare of those families and children. It is best to keep them

:23:28. > :23:34.close to their villages and have hope of return. 12 million Syrians

:23:35. > :23:38.have been displaced, overfull and a half million in camps. How many

:23:39. > :23:44.would you take, it won't solve the problem. You need two solutions, the

:23:45. > :23:49.peace process, the root cause, and secondly make the camps and the job

:23:50. > :23:54.opportunities and education them much better than it is today will

:23:55. > :23:58.stop that way, you have a good chance of giving them at least some

:23:59. > :24:05.hope of staying there and then returning home. In Sinjar, with the

:24:06. > :24:14.Yazidi 's who fled from Daesh, it has been liberated, there is a

:24:15. > :24:20.massive aid effort. Let's not outbid each other on numbers, let's do what

:24:21. > :24:24.is right by those people. On the numbers, generous donations from the

:24:25. > :24:28.UK as we have mentioned, also Germany offering a lot of money this

:24:29. > :24:33.morning. The amount of money being sought is higher than the figure

:24:34. > :24:38.that was put forward by the UN last year, 60% of that amount was not

:24:39. > :24:43.raised last year. As the debate changed enough for countries to be

:24:44. > :24:46.more generous this year in terms of the best way to deal with refugees

:24:47. > :24:51.will be looked at the numbers that have come to Europe, as we

:24:52. > :24:56.discussed? That is David Cameron's message today, to those leaders,

:24:57. > :25:00.over 60 prime ministers, 70 countries represented, the messages,

:25:01. > :25:05.follow us, we will share best practice with you, other countries

:25:06. > :25:09.are doing well, Norway, Germany, Kuwait, the UN sponsoring the

:25:10. > :25:15.conference will stop let's not allow ourselves to make pledges but then

:25:16. > :25:20.not deliver. The money has to be delivered, the UN launches these

:25:21. > :25:24.appeals and they only get 50% real delivery. That needs to change, the

:25:25. > :25:29.UK has led the way and David Cameron is determined to make sure other

:25:30. > :25:31.countries do the same. Let's bring in Pawel Krzysiek from the

:25:32. > :25:37.international community for the Red Cross, joining us from Damascus. How

:25:38. > :25:44.do you assess the situation in terms of the best way for the

:25:45. > :25:51.international community to help? I think the most important issue right

:25:52. > :25:59.now for the humanitarian agencies like the Red Cross is to access the

:26:00. > :26:04.people in need in this country. There are still too many places and

:26:05. > :26:12.too many people that we cannot reach with humanitarian aid. Yesterday, we

:26:13. > :26:17.entered the besieged town in Damascus where we saw desperation.

:26:18. > :26:25.That operation-macro also sought last month in other places in Syria,

:26:26. > :26:36.it is the example of what is going on in this country -- the grid that

:26:37. > :26:38.desperation I also saw last month. In terms of the fighting, the

:26:39. > :26:46.clashes, combat between various parties and also because

:26:47. > :26:55.humanitarian aid organisations like mine cannot access the people in

:26:56. > :27:04.need. Have there been food drops? Should there be airdrops of food and

:27:05. > :27:10.other aid? Airdrops is an extremely compensated operation, and, I don't

:27:11. > :27:18.go, being in my diet, I can hardly imagine how the airdrops could be

:27:19. > :27:24.done there. But there is a road there, which leads to the town,

:27:25. > :27:32.roads to many other places in Syria and aid can be brought in. What we

:27:33. > :27:39.need is the willingness of various parties to allow this aid in, and

:27:40. > :27:47.this is what the International Red Cross is pushing for. Yesterday we

:27:48. > :27:53.saw that it is possible but it is not enough in order for us to help

:27:54. > :28:02.those people on a regular basis, properly, we need to access those

:28:03. > :28:09.places regularly. When you talk about places like Madaya, people are

:28:10. > :28:13.stuck there, unable to leave, so what is generally happening with the

:28:14. > :28:18.refugee crisis? Are people able to leave with borders sealed? What we

:28:19. > :28:28.have seen is not only the people beeping outside Syria, which is an

:28:29. > :28:31.estimated over 4 million people, but many, many people are fleeing their

:28:32. > :28:37.homes and going from one place inside Syria to another. I remember

:28:38. > :28:46.in Aleppo, I think, in my last visit in November I met an old man living

:28:47. > :28:55.in eastern Aleppo, in an unfinished building, no walls, no windows, the

:28:56. > :29:01.Red Cross was working to seal this place. He told me, I lived in

:29:02. > :29:11.eastern Aleppo, that I had to leave, I went to Raqqa, then I had to

:29:12. > :29:18.leave, so I went to Western Aleppo, where the people were promising me

:29:19. > :29:23.flats and, as you can see, this is the flat, no windows and no doors.

:29:24. > :29:29.It is not only the problem of people fleeing outside but we are talking

:29:30. > :29:31.here about more than 8 million Syrians who are displaced

:29:32. > :29:36.internally, fleeing their homes, looking for a better life, and then

:29:37. > :29:41.cannot find it inside Syria because the situation is so dire. Pawel

:29:42. > :29:49.Krzysiek, thank you very much, Agro one, thank you. -- Nadhim Zahawi

:29:50. > :29:50.thank you. A mum from Somerset has become

:29:51. > :29:53.the first person to win compensation after her son developed

:29:54. > :29:55.a sleeping disorder Josh Hadfield was diagnosed

:29:56. > :29:58.with narcolepsy in 2010. His mum, Caroline, sought legal

:29:59. > :30:01.help to prove a link between the jab After a long fight, he's now

:30:02. > :30:04.been granted ?120,000. We can now talk to 10-year-old Josh

:30:05. > :30:07.and his mum, Caroline, who join us from

:30:08. > :30:15.Bristol this morning. Thank you both for joining us.

:30:16. > :30:19.Caroline, take us back to why you got the swine flu jab done in the

:30:20. > :30:23.first place? Initially we had it because the Government advice at the

:30:24. > :30:29.time was that all children under the age of five were classed as at high

:30:30. > :30:33.risk, and he was still four. We had a letter from our GP, giving us the

:30:34. > :30:39.information that the Government had advised. I did a few weeks of

:30:40. > :30:41.research on it to see if there was any adverse side effects, which, at

:30:42. > :30:48.the time, there was nothing reported. Narcolepsy was not flagged

:30:49. > :30:54.up to you at the time? You were not aware of that? Know, the only side

:30:55. > :31:00.effects I could find were a sore arm and disliked beaver, that was all

:31:01. > :31:05.there was. When did you realise something was wrong with Josh? Three

:31:06. > :31:10.weeks after the vaccination he went from being a healthy, energetic

:31:11. > :31:14.four-year-old to being one who just slept all the time. He was coming

:31:15. > :31:19.home from school and going to bed. You would not see him until the

:31:20. > :31:25.following day when the school was calling and saying, you have brought

:31:26. > :31:29.him into school and he is asleep in our later, come and collect him. I

:31:30. > :31:35.knew then something was wrong. How long did it can to find out what was

:31:36. > :31:42.wrong? It took lots of different tests, lots of different doctors,

:31:43. > :31:57.and we got the official written diagnosis in February 20 11.

:31:58. > :32:04.Hi Josh, tell us what it's like having narcolepsy? It's mostly bad.

:32:05. > :32:08.I don't like it when I have to go to sleep because I miss out on things

:32:09. > :32:18.that I quite like. So you just get very, very tired, do you? Yes.

:32:19. > :32:23.Caroline, once you'd found out that it was narcolepsy, what did you do

:32:24. > :32:26.with that information? It's taken you six years to get to the point of

:32:27. > :32:32.actually getting compensation over this? It did. Initially, when I

:32:33. > :32:37.found out what it was, I spoke to the doctors and said, could it be be

:32:38. > :32:43.anything to do with the vaccine and they were all like, no, no, no, no,

:32:44. > :32:47.and my thoughts were that it was because there was nothing else that

:32:48. > :32:54.had come into effect which could have caused the sleepiness. So I

:32:55. > :32:57.campaigned quite a lot and spoke to various different newspapers and

:32:58. > :33:04.tried to get the story out which we managed to do in April 2011. The

:33:05. > :33:09.first day that came out, I had five families contact me over the next 24

:33:10. > :33:12.hours to say, oh, my God, these symptoms are exactly the same as

:33:13. > :33:17.what is going on with my child, no-one knows what it is, I'm now

:33:18. > :33:19.going to take this article to the doctors and hospitals and we are

:33:20. > :33:24.going to try and get it tested for that. So in order to win the victory

:33:25. > :33:31.that you did and get compensation, what did you have to prove? We had

:33:32. > :33:36.to prove that Josh was more than 60% disabled because, according to the

:33:37. > :33:44.DWP, I'm a vaccine damage payment scheme, they have a 60% disablement

:33:45. > :33:50.level which they initially said Josh was not severely disabled enough and

:33:51. > :33:52.didn't reach that level. So we have very, very regular hospital

:33:53. > :33:56.appointments in London and sleep studies and all the rest of it, so

:33:57. > :33:59.we had to get everything done. Obviously I'd contacted a solicitor

:34:00. > :34:10.as well who worked very, very hard for us. Reports were done. How do

:34:11. > :34:16.you feel about the fact that you took the choice to get him

:34:17. > :34:20.vaccinated and it's had this impact? I feel incredibly guilty about it to

:34:21. > :34:27.be honest and I'll have to live with this for the rest of my life.

:34:28. > :34:31.Although I was trying to protect him, but his life has now been

:34:32. > :34:36.affectd and it's never, ever going to change. I feel guilty but the

:34:37. > :34:39.other part of me feels very angry about the fact that we have had to

:34:40. > :34:45.jump through so many hoops to try and get some sort of level of

:34:46. > :34:49.compensation for something which he never asked for and the vaccine I

:34:50. > :34:56.don't think was ever tested properly anyway.

:34:57. > :35:02.It's very, very mixed. ?120,000 of compensation. What does that mean to

:35:03. > :35:06.you? It all means that I can start putting a few things in place to try

:35:07. > :35:15.and set up a bit of a secure future for Josh. At the end of the day, I

:35:16. > :35:18.will do everything I can to support him but I'm not always going to be

:35:19. > :35:23.around. There's going to come a time when Josh will need to fend for

:35:24. > :35:28.himself so I need to try and put things in place for him long-term

:35:29. > :35:34.and for his future. Thank you very much, Caroline and

:35:35. > :35:36.Josh, Caroline said there she did not believe the vaccine was tested

:35:37. > :36:22.adequately. The Department of Work and Pensions

:36:23. > :36:23.initially decided against allocating compensation to Josh, a spokesman

:36:24. > :36:37.told the programme: The energy regulator, Ofgem,

:36:38. > :36:41.is to investigate claims about the relationship between Age

:36:42. > :36:43.UK, and the energy company, The Sun newspaper says the charity

:36:44. > :36:47.has been selling costly electricity and gas deals to elderly people and,

:36:48. > :36:50.in return, receiving millions Age UK has rejected the allegations,

:36:51. > :36:58.while Eon said its tariffs Our personal finance correspondent

:36:59. > :37:12.Simon Gompertz is here. Tell us what is alleged to have gone

:37:13. > :37:19.on here? The allegations in the Sun are that Age UK has brought 150,000

:37:20. > :37:22.older people into gas and electricity contracts that are too

:37:23. > :37:27.expensive, they are paying more than they need to. What they were was

:37:28. > :37:31.earlier last year, they brought out a two-year fixed rate deal, so you

:37:32. > :37:37.paid the same amount for two years to give you peace of mind, Age UK

:37:38. > :37:41.selling it, passing people on to the big supplier Eon for a certain price

:37:42. > :37:45.but it turned out by the end of the year that if people had been on

:37:46. > :37:49.Eon's cheapest price that they had on offer during that year, they

:37:50. > :37:56.would have been ?245 better off for the year. A considerable sum and not

:37:57. > :38:02.only that, Age UK was getting paid Commission for passing people on,

:38:03. > :38:07.that amounted to ?6 million for the year and, if you divide it by the

:38:08. > :38:12.number of people, it's roughly ?41 per customer that they passed on to

:38:13. > :38:16.Eon, so the claim is that people were paying too much and that Age

:38:17. > :38:25.UK, the charity, was getting a kick back for that. Are charities able to

:38:26. > :38:30.do that and take Commission for it? They can. Age UK sells equity

:38:31. > :38:34.release plans where you can tap into the value of your home, insurance,

:38:35. > :38:40.funeral plans, a lot of things that they make money from, the money is

:38:41. > :38:44.then used in the charity's activities, all of it is diverted

:38:45. > :38:51.there, but both Age UK and Eon have had their say about this today and

:38:52. > :39:24.Age UK first of all says it's been working with Eon for years and says:

:39:25. > :39:33.Eon adds that customers are not tied and can swap to a cheaper deal when

:39:34. > :39:38.they want to, they always work to ensure the tariffs are competitively

:39:39. > :39:42.priced. They say this type was the cheapest. They can switch without

:39:43. > :39:47.any charge which means they can pick a tariff that best suits their

:39:48. > :39:53.needs. Coming at a time when trust in charities has been an issue, is

:39:54. > :39:57.this going to be looked at, just in terms of whether it's advisable for

:39:58. > :40:03.there to be links between charities and business like this? Charities

:40:04. > :40:06.have really been under the Spotlight, primarily for fund-raise

:40:07. > :40:10.ing tactics using telephone cold-calling and that type of thing.

:40:11. > :40:13.This isn't about that. The same question arises as to what we want

:40:14. > :40:17.our charities to do when they raise funds, to we want them to be like

:40:18. > :40:21.commercial operations? After all, when they make a kick back or a

:40:22. > :40:25.commission from selling gas and electricity, they are sort of doing

:40:26. > :40:29.what those price comparison when sites on the Internet do when we

:40:30. > :40:35.want to switch suppliers because they get typically between ?30 and

:40:36. > :40:38.?60 a time if they pass on a customer to an energy company and

:40:39. > :40:43.that's in a sense what Age UK was doing. To we want our charities to

:40:44. > :40:46.be doing that, making money out of insurance and gas and electricity

:40:47. > :40:47.give than they use that money then for charitable purposes? Thank you,

:40:48. > :40:51.Simon. We've been discussing how Syrian

:40:52. > :40:54.refugees can be helped by the international community -

:40:55. > :40:56.as world leaders meet in London Earlier this week -

:40:57. > :41:01.over 100 senior figures signed a letter calling the government's

:41:02. > :41:04.response to the refugee I've been speaking to one

:41:05. > :41:09.of the signatories the former Foreign Office minister

:41:10. > :41:17.Lord Malloch Brown. Suddenly this isn't a problem far

:41:18. > :41:21.away and about humanitarian sympathy, it's an urgent political

:41:22. > :41:26.problem close to home. So I have no doubt that more money will be raised

:41:27. > :41:30.and I think the conference is timely and coming on the back of the

:41:31. > :41:36.postponement of the peace negotiations for Syria. I think it's

:41:37. > :41:39.also going to be accompanied by a recognition that this conflict's

:41:40. > :41:44.around for a while and therefore the refugee problem is around for a

:41:45. > :41:47.while. So you've signed a letter saying that the Government position

:41:48. > :41:50.here and the numbers that it's accepting, 20,000 over five years,

:41:51. > :41:54.is morally unacceptable, would you put a figure on it?

:41:55. > :41:58.I'm not sure there is a figure per say, but when we are taking less

:41:59. > :42:05.over five years than Canada, a country half our size is taking in

:42:06. > :42:09.one, you've got to realise that we are, proportionately way off. The

:42:10. > :42:14.Government's quite right to say that we can't just throw open our doors

:42:15. > :42:19.to everybody, there has to be very clear screening of people to make

:42:20. > :42:23.sure they are refugees, to make sure also that there are not terrorists

:42:24. > :42:30.in their number. The public has a right to be reassured that this

:42:31. > :42:33.problem is being well-managed, the in-flow is being managed. We have to

:42:34. > :42:37.look to our history, enormous success in the past that we have had

:42:38. > :42:51.with refugees who've come here, whether it was Jewish refugees or

:42:52. > :42:57.the Second World War, whether it was other situations. Has the debate

:42:58. > :43:05.become toxic? It has. What's needed is real

:43:06. > :43:11.leadershire from politicians, which is a combination of respect for laws

:43:12. > :43:16.and undertakings we have given, compared and combined with a

:43:17. > :43:18.willingness to be tough, humane but tough in dealing with those groups

:43:19. > :43:24.who don't qualify as refugees. Thank you for you company

:43:25. > :43:34.this morning and for Shona got in touch on the issue

:43:35. > :43:39.about bereavement counselling for parents after they lose a baby. She

:43:40. > :43:44.says she lost her baby at 31 and a half weeks, this was no formal

:43:45. > :43:49.counselling service or volunteers who'd lost a baby which she did find

:43:50. > :43:52.helpful, it helped her a lot and Cheryl's tweeted, great to see

:43:53. > :43:53.examples of excellent bereavement care.

:43:54. > :44:02.We'll be back tomorrow from 9:15 on BBC Two,