22/02/2016

:00:08. > :00:10.Hello it's Monday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria,

:00:11. > :00:12.welcome to the programme This morning: It's one of the most

:00:13. > :00:15.important issues facing the UK - would Britain be better off

:00:16. > :00:26.Plus our political guru will bring you the arguments

:00:27. > :00:39.I will be getting out my political chain saw to cut through the jargon,

:00:40. > :00:41.get to the key issues of what this referendum is really about. Never

:00:42. > :00:46.mind the euro gobbledygook. Also on the programme: The daughter

:00:47. > :00:51.of a 92-year-old woman who faces being deported back to South Africa

:00:52. > :00:54.tells us she fears her mother could die if she's forced to leave

:00:55. > :01:00.England. Should never have come here alone.

:01:01. > :01:07.You are never alone in Grimsby. And Grimsby is fighting back -

:01:08. > :01:10.it's launched a campaign saying it's nothing like the town portrayed

:01:11. > :01:13.in a new film by the creator We're on BBC Two and the BBC

:01:14. > :01:28.News Channel until 11 this morning. Throughout the morning we'll bring

:01:29. > :01:30.you the latest breaking news and developing stories,

:01:31. > :01:33.and as always, we're keen to hear from you on all the issues

:01:34. > :01:40.we're covering today. Texts will be charged

:01:41. > :01:42.at the standard network rate. Particularly keen to hear your views

:01:43. > :01:46.on this question, which you'll hear regularly over the next few months:

:01:47. > :01:50.Will the UK be better off in or out David Cameron will go

:01:51. > :01:54.to Parliament this afternoon to present his argument for Britain

:01:55. > :01:57.to remain in the EU. The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson,

:01:58. > :02:00.who's tipped as a future leader of the Conservative party,

:02:01. > :02:02.has been setting out his arguments for why he'll be

:02:03. > :02:06.campaigning for out. But ultimately it's you -

:02:07. > :02:09.the Great British public who'll decide the future of Britain's

:02:10. > :02:12.relationship with the EU when you get to vote in a referendum

:02:13. > :02:16.on Thursday 23rd June. In the meantime, you can

:02:17. > :02:19.have your say on our programme. With us this morning,

:02:20. > :02:26.our very own political guru Introduce yourself quickly

:02:27. > :02:39.and set out your position. I am Holly, a student and I am in

:02:40. > :02:44.for the freedom of movement. I am Kate Carr I am nutrient, I don't

:02:45. > :02:50.think it will make a difference if we are in or out. I am definitely in

:02:51. > :02:55.because the argument for exit is not coherent and will lead us into a

:02:56. > :02:59.nightmare, I feel. I am Darren and I am excited for the opportunities

:03:00. > :03:03.being part of the global communities after leaving the European Union. I

:03:04. > :03:11.am Alexandra and I am so convinced the right thing to leave and I would

:03:12. > :03:14.leave tomorrow. I am Hannah, I am pro-EU because I think the out

:03:15. > :03:21.argument is fundamentally flawed and I staying in will help protect human

:03:22. > :03:27.rights. I am Nigel, I am definitely out. I believe a leap in the dark,

:03:28. > :03:31.is a step towards a golden future and I cannot believe how exciting it

:03:32. > :03:38.will be. We will hear more from you in a few moments, but if we carry

:03:39. > :03:44.on, Norman is with us. What has David Cameron negotiated? He

:03:45. > :03:49.travelled thousands of miles, had 48 hours of intense negotiations and

:03:50. > :03:54.eventually came up with this deal. Three key elements. The first is on

:03:55. > :04:00.immigration. What he has got is an agreement that EU migrants, who come

:04:01. > :04:04.to Britain, will no longer automatic access to the full level of tax

:04:05. > :04:09.credits. In future they will have to wait years before they can get the

:04:10. > :04:14.full tax credits. But there was another issue he was concerned

:04:15. > :04:18.about, and that is when some EU migrants claim child in a fit the

:04:19. > :04:24.children back in their home country. He hasn't quite got that stop. He

:04:25. > :04:27.has an agreement that in future for new migrants it will be indexed

:04:28. > :04:30.linked to the cost of living in their country and for existing

:04:31. > :04:37.migrants, they will only get it for another four years. The second key

:04:38. > :04:40.area where he has got a deal is on safeguarding the city. David Cameron

:04:41. > :04:46.is concerned the city will be bossed about by the Eurozone. That the

:04:47. > :04:50.Eurozone will cramp city's style with new banking regulations. What

:04:51. > :04:54.he has got is an agreement that if he is concerned or the city is

:04:55. > :04:59.concerned we can put upper hand and say, that is not good for us. But

:05:00. > :05:03.what he can do about it is not clear beyond instigating a debate among

:05:04. > :05:08.European leaders. The last critical area concerns the power of

:05:09. > :05:13.Parliament. How much power do we have in Parliament, how much have we

:05:14. > :05:18.handed over to Brussels, how many of our laws are coming from Brussels?

:05:19. > :05:23.What Mr Cameron has got is a red card. What it means if we don't like

:05:24. > :05:29.some EU legislation, in a pretty limited area, but if we don't like a

:05:30. > :05:35.bit of EU legislation, we can club together with 16 other EU countries

:05:36. > :05:41.and say no, we don't want it. We can stop it. That is the deal. More from

:05:42. > :05:47.you in a moment, Norman. But let's get a flavour from the audience. A

:05:48. > :05:52.good deal, Kate? Some extra deals, there is a huge element of us being

:05:53. > :05:57.in the EU which is good. The right for the City of London to stay out

:05:58. > :06:01.of the banking rules is good because we are very different elsewhere. I

:06:02. > :06:06.do think that being able to come out of some of the rules is a good idea,

:06:07. > :06:10.but having said that I think we are rubbish at implementing them anyway.

:06:11. > :06:17.I don't think it helps so much. The big thing was having the pound

:06:18. > :06:20.recognised. That was most important, we don't have to go in the Eurozone

:06:21. > :06:28.and we don't have two bail other countries out. Hannah? I think the

:06:29. > :06:31.deal is focusing on the wrong areas. Boris Johnson said yesterday coming

:06:32. > :06:43.out will be the best thing for British people. I think Borat

:06:44. > :06:49.benefits stigmatises refugees. If he wants to help richest people he

:06:50. > :06:52.needs to negotiate the unilateral trade deal with China because cheap

:06:53. > :06:55.imports of steel are jeopardising trade deal with China because cheap

:06:56. > :07:00.entire communities in Wales. There trade deal with China because cheap

:07:01. > :07:04.are so many jobs dependent import Tolbert on the steel industry and

:07:05. > :07:09.because of the cheap imports from China, they are now at risk will

:07:10. > :07:14.stop the people in Wales are at risk of losing their jobs. It is not just

:07:15. > :07:18.the people in the steel industry, one in four jobs in the community,

:07:19. > :07:23.such as people who work in the sandwich shops, the truck drivers,

:07:24. > :07:27.their jobs also depend on that industry existing. To get rid of

:07:28. > :07:33.something like that isn't OK. Nigel, you said you cannot wait when you

:07:34. > :07:38.future, so I assume there is nothing David Cameron will have negotiated

:07:39. > :07:45.to change mine? He has got a deal nobody wanted or for. It is based

:07:46. > :07:50.around the Norway, Sweden type deal. When we are talking about becoming a

:07:51. > :07:55.global trading hub in the future. We have had 40 years of marriage to the

:07:56. > :08:00.European Union and it is like David Cameron has gone for some sort of

:08:01. > :08:05.marriage counselling. But what we really want is a divorce. Norman,

:08:06. > :08:12.run us through the main arguments on either side. We have looked through

:08:13. > :08:21.all the rhetoric to get to five basic arguments the centre of this

:08:22. > :08:27.debate. The most are mated one -- emotive one centres on immigration.

:08:28. > :08:30.Those who want to stay in say immigration is crying out for EU

:08:31. > :08:35.workers, particularly big business. But also you think of the health

:08:36. > :08:41.service, the farming sector, the service sector, you want to get a

:08:42. > :08:46.leaky tap fixed, it will probably be a Polish plumber. Those who want to

:08:47. > :08:50.get out say, we have lost control of our borders, we don't know who is

:08:51. > :08:56.coming in or out, because if we are in the EU we have no control over EU

:08:57. > :09:01.migrants coming in. There is nothing we can do, part of the EU rules and

:09:02. > :09:05.that is why immigration is going up. The second key area is around

:09:06. > :09:09.security. The Prime Minister has made this almost the centrepiece of

:09:10. > :09:15.his argument. His view is we can cooperate with other European

:09:16. > :09:22.countries to counter-terrorism, counter criminality and actually we

:09:23. > :09:25.are safer staying in a bigger block. Those who want to leave, and we

:09:26. > :09:32.heard from Iain Duncan Smith yesterday saying we are at more risk

:09:33. > :09:37.of Paris style attack because we don't have control of our borders.

:09:38. > :09:43.We cannot stop terrorists coming here, we are less able to police our

:09:44. > :09:47.own borders. For many people, one of the deciding issues will be jobs.

:09:48. > :09:52.Those who want to stay in, we'll say around 3 million jobs are tied up

:09:53. > :09:57.with our membership of the European Union, we would be barking mad to

:09:58. > :10:02.put those at risk. Those who want to get out would say, there would be a

:10:03. > :10:06.job room if we went because we wouldn't be snarled up in endless

:10:07. > :10:10.red tape and small businesses would find a new lease of life without

:10:11. > :10:17.being burdened without all that extra EU regulation. Let's look at

:10:18. > :10:24.trade. Those who want to stay in say it gives us access to the biggest,

:10:25. > :10:30.single market without any barriers, no tariffs, we can trade freely.

:10:31. > :10:36.Roughly about 45% of trade is with the European Union. Come on, why

:10:37. > :10:42.would you want to put that at risk? Those who want to get out say, don't

:10:43. > :10:46.be silly, we can negotiate new deals with other European countries. Think

:10:47. > :10:50.about it, they trade more with us than we trade with them. They will

:10:51. > :11:00.want to keep trading with us. If we pulled out, you expect the boss of

:11:01. > :11:05.faults I can getting straight on the phone and saying to Angela Merkel,

:11:06. > :11:10.for goodness sake, do a deal. The argument for David Cameron is the

:11:11. > :11:15.City of London would be at risk if we get out and the big banks will

:11:16. > :11:20.move. Michael Heseltine said Frankfurt and Paris would be running

:11:21. > :11:26.up the flag to celebrate the demise of the city. Those who want to get

:11:27. > :11:30.out say this city is a global power base and doesn't depend being part

:11:31. > :11:35.of the Euro. It is scaremongering. But those are the five key arguments

:11:36. > :11:42.which will probably shape this debate. Thank you, Norman. Norman

:11:43. > :11:48.will join the audience. He will be our unofficial FAQ checker. So if

:11:49. > :11:54.you come up with any particular porkies, Norman will look at it. We

:11:55. > :12:00.were hearing all the key arguments, each of the shout out, which is the

:12:01. > :12:10.key issue for you. Freedom. Trade. The economy. All of them. The head

:12:11. > :12:15.of Europe has said there are 5000 trained Islamists fighters, this is

:12:16. > :12:31.not the Daily Mail, it is scaremongering. Iain Duncan Smith,

:12:32. > :12:34.yesterday. Isis themselves said they intended to use the free movement of

:12:35. > :12:40.people to flood Europe with Isis fighters. Whether they were as

:12:41. > :12:49.successful as they intended, the truth is if you have no borders or

:12:50. > :12:55.controls, there is a risk. ALL TALK AT ONCE.

:12:56. > :13:01.The politicians are coming out on both sides of this. The Home

:13:02. > :13:04.Secretary say one of her key reasons saying voting for staying in is

:13:05. > :13:11.security. You have Iain Duncan Smith saying staying in makes us more

:13:12. > :13:17.vulnerable? My take on it is this, countries in of the EU and countries

:13:18. > :13:23.out of the EU are on vulnerable to Isis attacks. They will find ways to

:13:24. > :13:26.get around your controls whether you are in the union or out. I

:13:27. > :13:31.understand the arguments, but I don't think they are a key arguments

:13:32. > :13:35.on either side. We are dealing with people so determined and organised,

:13:36. > :13:40.I think they would rather be get round whatever you had in place. It

:13:41. > :13:45.is a more profound, existentialists threat. Let's turn our attention to

:13:46. > :13:54.immigration because it is right at the top of voters' lists. What we

:13:55. > :13:58.should have is an Australian style points system so we can judge

:13:59. > :14:01.everyone from the rest of the world on their merits, just as we do with

:14:02. > :14:07.Europe. Just because someone isn't within the European Union we have a

:14:08. > :14:12.limit on how many people can come. It is so damages for businesses in

:14:13. > :14:16.London. What do you think about figures on immigration? The nature

:14:17. > :14:20.of the debate about being in the EU is that it is very difficult to

:14:21. > :14:25.limit numbers. We should have control and decide as a country and

:14:26. > :14:29.not have it imposed by Brussels on the rules of our borders. We should

:14:30. > :14:34.look at every individual case and what we need for business. Instead

:14:35. > :14:41.of saying, you are European, come in. Why are you against a

:14:42. > :14:46.referendum? The scaremongering will be so much, there will be so much

:14:47. > :14:51.money put in by Cameron and the EU propaganda there will be so few

:14:52. > :14:57.facts. For you to say there is an increase in Paris style attacks, is

:14:58. > :15:02.scaremongering. That is what the head of the European police think.

:15:03. > :15:08.So what is your opinion? We will stick with immigration.

:15:09. > :15:18.You have more Brits living in Spain. It is a very skewed argument. One

:15:19. > :15:26.that has been tailored to pander this xenophobic element of the

:15:27. > :15:32.League campaign. We tend to talk about immigration in the EU context.

:15:33. > :15:39.Roughly half is non-EU. -- Leave. That matters because we have control

:15:40. > :15:44.of that. Still, that immigration has increased. It raises the question,

:15:45. > :15:47.if we pulled out would we be able to control immigration? One of the

:15:48. > :15:53.things David Cameron floated the other day was, we are not going to

:15:54. > :15:58.bother as we do at the moment in Calais and Dunkirk. In other words

:15:59. > :16:05.we will say, go on through to Britain. That seems to be something

:16:06. > :16:09.that the outside have to sort out. I don't like this xenophobic issue. It

:16:10. > :16:13.is not about that, it is about numbers. Thousands of people came to

:16:14. > :16:17.this country last year. You cannot plan and economy, a country, in

:16:18. > :16:22.infrastructure, to cope with such a large number. Look at schools,

:16:23. > :16:26.hospitals... Where are they going to live on the continent? All of these

:16:27. > :16:29.factors are driven by an uncontrolled amount of immigration.

:16:30. > :16:33.At the moment, with our open borders, you have a potential...

:16:34. > :16:40.They are not open borders. You cannot control that. You were out,

:16:41. > :16:45.Ayew, Darren? I am. The average voter doesn't care about numbers,

:16:46. > :16:50.doesn't know about numbers. -- are you. It is about not having control.

:16:51. > :16:53.It is about not having a say on how much money needs to go to education,

:16:54. > :16:58.local authorities, in order to plan. I think it is perfectly reasonable

:16:59. > :17:05.for voters... This is a high issue on the agenda, to be concerned about

:17:06. > :17:13.having no control over immigration whatsoever from the European Union.

:17:14. > :17:15.I think that is... It is not to do with education. Our crumbling

:17:16. > :17:22.infrastructure is not the fault of the EU. You are assuming that if we

:17:23. > :17:26.take control back of our borders we will be able to control them. When

:17:27. > :17:30.actually we are rubbish at that. Where we can control them we have

:17:31. > :17:33.been rubbish and it is exactly the same on... Everybody complains about

:17:34. > :17:38.the roles of the EU and the regulations, but we are dreadful

:17:39. > :17:45.with rules and regulations in this country. -- rules of the EU. In my

:17:46. > :17:49.industry we have ridiculous rules and regulations which are

:17:50. > :17:52.implemented in a ridiculous way, compared with other European

:17:53. > :17:55.countries. You are assuming we have a government that can do the things

:17:56. > :18:05.that you want. When actually they have not proven they have been able

:18:06. > :18:09.to. It has a mandate to redo a health and safety policy, they

:18:10. > :18:14.cannot do that... But that is OK then!

:18:15. > :18:17.CHUCKLES It is about accountability and

:18:18. > :18:23.sovereignty, what does that mean? I think it is jargon. Voters are able

:18:24. > :18:29.to vote for the people... We do! Politicians talking about

:18:30. > :18:34.sovereignty, the statistic for how much of the EU legislation directly

:18:35. > :18:43.impacts the UK is so variable. The argument is between 9% and 70%. It

:18:44. > :18:50.is, located. Around about 15% of regulations, so those are laws, but,

:18:51. > :18:54.apologies, 15% of directives, but there is a lot of regulation on top

:18:55. > :18:58.of that. They are not necessarily yours but they impact on business.

:18:59. > :19:06.Actual laws, probably 15%. But the amount of red tape, an awful lot. It

:19:07. > :19:12.is running at something like 32 billion as a direct result of EU

:19:13. > :19:16.legislation. Look at what Cameron has initiated. He has negotiated a

:19:17. > :19:21.deal in which he is going on oh, how exciting to be part of the EU coming

:19:22. > :19:25.is actually -- has actually done a deal where he says we want to keep

:19:26. > :19:28.it at arm 's length, we want to control certain things. He isn't

:19:29. > :19:35.saying I want embraced the EU, in fact, he is trying to offer a deal

:19:36. > :19:38.by saying we won't join the euro, we will not do this... You say you are

:19:39. > :19:44.excited to leave. Is anybody excited to stay?

:19:45. > :19:49.CHUCKLES I like everything about the EU. The

:19:50. > :19:55.bureaucracy isn't the price of living in society. Sorry, when you

:19:56. > :19:56.have human beings working together and communicating there is never

:19:57. > :20:02.going to be perfect indication and and communicating there is never

:20:03. > :20:10.efficiency. We are not perfect. Millions of pounds, from Brussels to

:20:11. > :20:19.Parliament, why we're doing it? To keep the French happy? -- why are we

:20:20. > :20:22.doing it? There isn't a single figure which vouchers for us leaving

:20:23. > :20:28.the EU. Not the School of economics... We would be able to

:20:29. > :20:38.make trade deals with South Korea... -- vouches for us. This is a deluded

:20:39. > :20:43.idea. David Cameron argued about not having any future bailouts. That is

:20:44. > :20:48.a great faith in the European Union! CHUCKLES

:20:49. > :20:51.We already bail them out, because that is what our contribution is for

:20:52. > :20:56.a negative trade deal. We must be crazy to carry on with this

:20:57. > :21:02.contribution when we have people in this country who are surviving on

:21:03. > :21:07.food banks. That is a Victorian era, as far as I'm concerned. You think

:21:08. > :21:12.it is a good idea to leave? I cannot wait. Bring it on. Let's talk about

:21:13. > :21:16.the personalities involved. Boris Johnson, does that change things? I

:21:17. > :21:19.think you resonate with young people well. He will get them excited about

:21:20. > :21:25.the prospect of leaving. I think he will do wonders for our side. I am a

:21:26. > :21:31.young side and the activity doesn't resonate with me. Who does? One of

:21:32. > :21:35.many. Jeremy Corbyn. CHUCKLES

:21:36. > :21:41.You are undecided before the date was announced, what made up your

:21:42. > :21:46.mind? Before the debate started. I don't think... I don't think people

:21:47. > :21:50.know that much about the EU, but once you read into it I just think

:21:51. > :21:55.for me, the humanitarian aspect of it, and preserving human rights is

:21:56. > :22:00.so much more... You make it sound like there has never been a human

:22:01. > :22:09.rights policy. The Human Rights Act exists. Absolutely did not! 1951. We

:22:10. > :22:12.have human rights in this country. We don't need Brussels to tell us

:22:13. > :22:18.how to treat people. I used to work... The whole point of the idea,

:22:19. > :22:22.they just tell us what to do, and we have to sit... OK. The whole point

:22:23. > :22:27.is that we can actually put our point across. And when you ever want

:22:28. > :22:30.to change something. Changes are required in the EU, I agree, the

:22:31. > :22:34.administration and the delivery and return it gives isn't the best. When

:22:35. > :22:38.you want to change something you do not change it by leaving, you have

:22:39. > :22:44.to change by being within. You cannot change, because we are one of

:22:45. > :22:49.28. We can! Going in their direction. It is a we don't want to

:22:50. > :22:54.go in. We will say that we don't want to go in that direction. We are

:22:55. > :22:58.at the start of what will be a rather long campaign. Four months,

:22:59. > :23:02.23rd of June, everybody will have their say. You can watch David

:23:03. > :23:06.Cameron making his case to end these live on the BBC News Channel at

:23:07. > :23:10.three 30p this afternoon. Later on in the programme, reaction from

:23:11. > :23:17.Europeans living in this country, and we will also speak to Liam Fox.

:23:18. > :23:18.-- at 3:30pm this afternoon. Stay with us for that. And keep getting

:23:19. > :23:22.in touch with us. Coming up: The daughter of a 92 year-old woman

:23:23. > :23:24.who faces being deported to South Africa tells us

:23:25. > :23:27.she fears her mother could die We'll be talking

:23:28. > :23:43.to both of them live. I am cornered. I should never have

:23:44. > :23:48.come here alone. You are never alone, bruv.

:23:49. > :23:51.And - ahead of the release of Sacha Baron Cohen's new film

:23:52. > :23:56.Grimsby, the town has gone on a PR offensive to promote its image!

:23:57. > :24:04.Boris Johnson, the top Tory who yesterday defied David Cameron

:24:05. > :24:06.to back Britain leaving the EU, dodged questions this morning

:24:07. > :24:12.Later the Prime Minister will explain to his own MPs why

:24:13. > :24:13.they should support him and not Mr Johnson,

:24:14. > :24:19.in his bid to keep the UK in what he calls a reformed EU.

:24:20. > :24:21.After the abuse at the Winterborne View care home,

:24:22. > :24:24.the government's now being urged to appoint a learning disabilities

:24:25. > :24:30.boss to champion the rights of vulnerable people.

:24:31. > :24:32.The author of the report, Sir Stephen Bubb says

:24:33. > :24:35.that the challenges facing the care system are far greater

:24:36. > :24:49.Police in Scotland say they have found a body while searching for the

:24:50. > :24:51.missing teenager. A taxi driver has been arrested over

:24:52. > :24:54.a shooting rampage in Michigan There are reports that he may have

:24:55. > :24:57.picked up passengers French authorities try to persuade

:24:58. > :25:02.the 4,000 people who live in the Calais migrant camp

:25:03. > :25:05.to pack up and leave. They say they'll evict them

:25:06. > :25:08.and bulldoze the camp if they don't. And Benedict Cumberbatch has won

:25:09. > :25:10.the coveted Best Actor prize at the WhatsOnStage award

:25:11. > :25:13.ceremony for his portrayal of Hamlet It was decided by public vote

:25:14. > :25:17.and his production also picked up Let's catch up with all

:25:18. > :25:38.the sport now and join Jess. A busy weekend. We start with

:25:39. > :25:44.snooker. Ronnie O'Sullivan has been doing it again. He came from behind

:25:45. > :25:47.last night to beat Robertson to claim his fourth Welsh open title.

:25:48. > :25:51.And in doing so winning seven frames in a row. He in great form at the

:25:52. > :25:55.moment ahead of the World Championships a couple of months.

:25:56. > :26:01.One man who knows all about winning, Gus Hiddink, he has never lost an FA

:26:02. > :26:05.Cup match. He is the Chelsea boss. Chelsea thrashed Manchester City 5-1

:26:06. > :26:11.at Stamford Bridge to set up their next match at Everton. England's

:26:12. > :26:15.women's cricket is tied up the T20 series against South Africa 2-1

:26:16. > :26:21.yesterday. More impressive batting from Sarah Taylor who got a third

:26:22. > :26:24.straight half-century. They are in great form ahead of the world T20

:26:25. > :26:28.tournament which kicks off in three weeks. The men didn't do as well,

:26:29. > :26:33.they lost the series against South Africa. More on all of those stories

:26:34. > :26:36.just after 10am. See you later, thanks very much.

:26:37. > :26:39.The daughter of a 92 year-old woman who faces being deported back

:26:40. > :26:42.to South Africa tells this programme she fears her mother could die

:26:43. > :26:46.Myrtle Cothill who is cared for by her daughter Mary Wills

:26:47. > :26:49.was due to fly back to Johannesburg tomorrow but the Home Office has

:26:50. > :26:51.temporarily halted proceedings pending a medical report.

:26:52. > :26:58.We can talk to Myrtle and Mary Cothill now.

:26:59. > :27:06.We can also speak to their barrister. I know your mum cannot

:27:07. > :27:10.hear our questions, but she is going to be able to talk to us. Tell us

:27:11. > :27:16.first of all how you feeling. Your mum was due to be heading back

:27:17. > :27:28.tomorrow, of course. I know. It was awful. I just didn't want to face

:27:29. > :27:36.tomorrow. I was so pleased when... When the lawyer phoned me and told

:27:37. > :27:44.me it had been suspended. But we are still on tenterhooks. Because we

:27:45. > :27:53.don't know whether the medical report is going to satisfy the Home

:27:54. > :28:04.Office. Can you ask your mum how she's feeling, as well. Money, they

:28:05. > :28:13.want to know how you feeling. -- how you are feeling. I feel so

:28:14. > :28:25.downhearted. I am very downhearted. I just want to start crying all the

:28:26. > :28:34.time. My nerves are in such a state. I am just praying and hoping that

:28:35. > :28:45.something good will be done for me. I cannot face living without my

:28:46. > :28:54.daughter at this age. If I have got to go back to South Africa I have

:28:55. > :29:02.got no one that can care for me. I will be put into places where there

:29:03. > :29:16.is no compassion, no care. I cannot read, and I cannot hear. My senses

:29:17. > :29:21.are impaired. What will I do? Just sit with my thoughts and wait for my

:29:22. > :29:32.end to come. I just cannot face this. I feel it is killing me. I

:29:33. > :29:48.feel so down. I just don't know what to think, or what to do. I am just

:29:49. > :29:52.in such a state of nerves. I just hope that something good will

:29:53. > :30:02.happen. And the law will come down and give us peace.

:30:03. > :30:06.happen. And the law will come down hearing your mum talking like that,

:30:07. > :30:11.and knowing that she may well end up having to go back? Yes. It is very

:30:12. > :30:26.hard. What was the intention having to go back? Yes. It is very

:30:27. > :30:33.she came? The decision to deport her has been upheld by two tribunals.

:30:34. > :30:37.And the reason was that they cited a as they key factor, because the

:30:38. > :30:46.intention was always for her to remain here. -- cited as the key

:30:47. > :30:55.factor. There was no deception whatsoever. Basically I was getting

:30:56. > :31:01.telephone calls and e-mails from friends who lived in the retirement

:31:02. > :31:10.village where my mum lived. Saying that my mum's health was going down.

:31:11. > :31:15.I know my mum was battling. Every night me and my husband would send

:31:16. > :31:22.some money over. But her health was really going down. They were asking

:31:23. > :31:27.me to bring her back, you know, bring her over and come and live

:31:28. > :31:34.with me. Which I did. Me and my husband checked on the Internet, and

:31:35. > :31:40.we didn't know that we had to apply in South Africa for my mum over.

:31:41. > :31:44.Because the things we were reading were all sort of clear, we could

:31:45. > :31:54.apply from this country. And that is why I said mum must come over. Which

:31:55. > :31:56.she did do. We applied and, of course, well, we have been through

:31:57. > :32:15.it for two years now. So it was your intention when she

:32:16. > :32:21.came, you wanted her to stay here? I want to look after my mother. She

:32:22. > :32:27.has no family in South Africa. My mum brought me into this world

:32:28. > :32:34.alone, because my own father got killed before I was born. So, my mum

:32:35. > :32:47.and I have been very close, as you could understand. My mum remarried

:32:48. > :32:58.again when I was nine. And then my stepdad died of meningitis. So my

:32:59. > :33:06.mum has lost two husbands. It is my duty, as a daughter to look after my

:33:07. > :33:13.mother. Let's talk to your lawyer because he is listening to this

:33:14. > :33:19.discussion. The legal process, what would have to be satisfied for her

:33:20. > :33:26.to stay, because she doesn't qualify under the immigration guidelines,

:33:27. > :33:30.does she? The situation was just to give a quick overview the Home

:33:31. > :33:38.Office refused her initially on the basis that she didn't meet the

:33:39. > :33:41.immigration rules, but she could reintegrate into South African

:33:42. > :33:52.society and also that her condition wasn't life-threatening. Whilst she

:33:53. > :33:59.was here, during the currency of her visitor's Visa and before expects by

:34:00. > :34:05.Ray she applied on the basis of her family life, with her daughter,

:34:06. > :34:10.Mary. This came before the first immigration judge who felt she

:34:11. > :34:17.couldn't meet the immigration rules but not only that, but that he

:34:18. > :34:25.considered her right to family life should also be seen in the light of

:34:26. > :34:31.the 2012 changes to the immigration rules, which basically made it

:34:32. > :34:37.impossible for British nationals and people settled in Britain to have

:34:38. > :34:45.their elderly relatives joined them. Try to 2012, if someone was over 65,

:34:46. > :34:49.was already financially dependent on the relative here and the relative

:34:50. > :34:54.here could maintain and accommodate them, they could apply for entry

:34:55. > :35:01.clearance. After 2012, the situation was changed apparently without much

:35:02. > :35:06.consultation and we're not quite clear of the reasons for that change

:35:07. > :35:12.apart from numbers. To allow people in who had long-term, day-to-day

:35:13. > :35:17.care needs, who could not receive medical treatment in their country

:35:18. > :35:23.of origin. Meaning, because it isn't available at all, or because it

:35:24. > :35:26.wasn't affordable. At the same time the family he would have to show

:35:27. > :35:34.they could pay for private medical treatment here for the next five

:35:35. > :35:40.years. This means that effectively there is no treatment at all or a

:35:41. > :35:44.country where medical treatment is more expensive than the UK on a

:35:45. > :35:50.privately paying basis, would qualify for these rules. You have

:35:51. > :35:55.outlined the background and legalities around it. Myrtle was

:35:56. > :35:59.booked on a flight to go back tomorrow, she is now able to stay

:36:00. > :36:04.well further consideration is given. The medical report will be looked at

:36:05. > :36:11.later. Does it come down to a case of clemency if she is allowed to

:36:12. > :36:18.stay, what does it hinge on now? I don't believe so. This is not

:36:19. > :36:23.just... I don't believe this is an issue of clemency or compassion at

:36:24. > :36:27.all. We are going to put legal submissions in later today to show

:36:28. > :36:33.that hair removal would be in breach of her human rights. Especially a

:36:34. > :36:39.breach of her right to private and family light with Mary. We have now

:36:40. > :36:47.got a medical report, which we will have to submit to the Home Office,

:36:48. > :36:51.showing that Mary's mental state, sorry Myrtle's mental state makes

:36:52. > :36:58.her particularly vulnerable to removal. So in that sense, her

:36:59. > :37:03.removal would interfere with the private life she has established

:37:04. > :37:08.with her daughter. In fact, the medical report also shows some of

:37:09. > :37:15.the findings of the immigration judges, and I wish to stress there

:37:16. > :37:19.was only one who could make such findings, the second hearing was

:37:20. > :37:25.only about whether there was an error of law. It wasn't a rehearing

:37:26. > :37:29.of the first hearing. He made certain findings. Mainly, he

:37:30. > :37:36.considered Mary Ann Myrtle had established family life in the UK

:37:37. > :37:43.but said it would be proportional to remove Myrtle because he assumed

:37:44. > :37:47.Mary could go and visit Myrtle on a temporary basis. OK, thank you very

:37:48. > :37:53.much. Lots of people getting in touch.

:37:54. > :37:58.Margaret says it is a disgrace to deport and 92-year-old woman and we

:37:59. > :38:02.can accept unlimited European people, where is the compassion?

:38:03. > :38:06.Someone has said, is this country for year.

:38:07. > :38:09.And another lady says she is 92, lives with her daughter and is not

:38:10. > :38:16.taking up space. Thank you all for joining us.

:38:17. > :38:27.The Home Office told us all applications are considered

:38:28. > :38:29.on their individual merits and in line with the Immigration Rule.

:38:30. > :38:31.It added "The removal of Mrs Cothill has been postponed

:38:32. > :38:33.to allow the family to provide further evidence."

:38:34. > :38:36.Should the Government appoint a senior person to champion

:38:37. > :38:37.the rights of people with learning disabilities?

:38:38. > :38:40.That's one of the recommendations in a new report, written

:38:41. > :38:42.following the Winterbourne view scandal.

:38:43. > :38:43.following the Winterbourne View scandal.

:38:44. > :38:47.We've been talking this morning about whether Britain should remain

:38:48. > :38:52.David Cameron will present his argument to stay in the EU

:38:53. > :38:54.in Parliament later, where he'll face a formidable

:38:55. > :38:56.coalition of senior cabinet ministers and Conservative

:38:57. > :38:58.backbenchers who will be campaigning against him before we all have our

:38:59. > :39:01.say in the referendum vote on June the 23rd.

:39:02. > :39:07.He's is a former Conservative Minister, who has previously stood

:39:08. > :39:17.to be leader of the Conservative Party.

:39:18. > :39:26.Is this going to be in issue that will tear your party apart? It is

:39:27. > :39:29.not a normal issue in that it affects only one party or another,

:39:30. > :39:34.it will cross the whole political divide and you will have David

:39:35. > :39:38.Cameron, who will be on the same side as Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola

:39:39. > :39:41.Sturgeon. On the other side you will have Nigel Farage alongside

:39:42. > :39:50.Conservatives. We have Cabinet ministers openly disagreeing with

:39:51. > :39:58.each other. 150 Tory MPs openly backing to go out. It is a democracy

:39:59. > :40:02.and we get a say. Every citizen is equally weighed when it comes to a

:40:03. > :40:07.referendum, so the votes are counted as the whole population, not in

:40:08. > :40:10.constituencies. So every vote counts, every cabinet minister will

:40:11. > :40:17.have the same boat as their constituents. It is risky for the

:40:18. > :40:22.Tory party? We gave a manifesto pledge. Nobody under the age of 58

:40:23. > :40:27.has ever been given a chance to vote on the European Union. It was a big

:40:28. > :40:31.gap in our democratic accountability. And because the

:40:32. > :40:33.Conservatives won the general election, we are able to give the

:40:34. > :40:40.people of this country are saying and what is a very constitutional

:40:41. > :40:45.issue for them. So, Boris Johnson, does that say things? It is hard to

:40:46. > :40:49.say but the British public are savvy on these issues. They will make

:40:50. > :40:54.their minds up on the substance of the arguments put forward. Is he a

:40:55. > :40:59.politician that cuts through to some voters that others don't? They will

:41:00. > :41:02.hear his voice more than they hear about politicians, so that will be

:41:03. > :41:08.useful in getting their arguments across and I'm glad he is coming to

:41:09. > :41:12.join our side of the campaign. Why do you think years, people are

:41:13. > :41:16.questioning his motivation? It is unfair that they do so. They say he

:41:17. > :41:22.has been swerving like a shopping trolley. The issue that has swung

:41:23. > :41:26.him, and you need to ask him about this, but it is the issue of

:41:27. > :41:31.sovereignty, who has the authority to govern us, who has the authority

:41:32. > :41:37.to make our laws. He was waiting to see whether there was anything on

:41:38. > :41:41.Britain any greater authority to make our own laws. A

:41:42. > :41:45.can not make its own laws and control its own border is not a

:41:46. > :41:49.proper independent and free country. That is why I want

:41:50. > :41:51.proper independent and free country. European Union. Many people looked

:41:52. > :41:52.proper independent and free country. at the deal and said, there is

:41:53. > :41:56.nothing new in at the deal and said, there is

:41:57. > :42:01.the position where the European Court can overrule the elected House

:42:02. > :42:05.of Commons. David Cameron said yesterday before Boris Johnson made

:42:06. > :42:09.his announcement, speaking to Boris Johnson and others within the party

:42:10. > :42:12.who would support leaving, he said the prospect of linking arms with

:42:13. > :42:22.Nigel Farage and George Galloway and taking a leap into the dark is a

:42:23. > :42:25.wrong step. Him linking Andy Moss with Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola

:42:26. > :42:30.Sturgeon won't win him any friends in the Tory party. We should be

:42:31. > :42:32.sticking to the issues. As for a leap in the dock, the day after we

:42:33. > :42:38.would vote to leave the European Union, he would still be a permanent

:42:39. > :42:41.member of the Security Council, still be at the heart of Nato and

:42:42. > :42:48.have a special relationship with the US. We would still be in the G20, at

:42:49. > :42:51.the heart of the Commonwealth. One of the most important trading

:42:52. > :42:58.countries and one of the world's top ten economies. How is that a leap in

:42:59. > :43:01.the dark. It is almost to suggest Great Britain cannot maintain its

:43:02. > :43:08.position in the world unless it is a member of the European Union. It

:43:09. > :43:15.could League 2 Scotland leaving the UK? Scotland decided to remain part

:43:16. > :43:18.of the United Kingdom, which is what I welcome. If Britain decided to

:43:19. > :43:22.remain in European Union, there is no guarantee Scotland, at some

:43:23. > :43:27.point, wouldn't have another referendum. It shouldn't be a

:43:28. > :43:32.consideration that forces us to abandon the demerits of European

:43:33. > :43:35.Union membership. What to think about the argument Iain Duncan Smith

:43:36. > :43:40.has made about staying leaves this country more vulnerable to terror

:43:41. > :43:47.attacks we saw in Paris, is it scaremongering? If you look at the

:43:48. > :43:50.reality on the consonants, Europe poll says 5000 EU citizens have been

:43:51. > :43:56.trained in terror camps and come back to Europe. A lot of people have

:43:57. > :44:00.been coming into the European Union from places like Afghanistan and

:44:01. > :44:04.Iran. It is impossible to know if they are genuine refugees, economic

:44:05. > :44:09.migrants, if they are sympathetic to these extremist movements of whether

:44:10. > :44:14.groups like Isis have been able to in -- infiltrate them. If we cannot

:44:15. > :44:20.control our borders, we cannot know who they are. Does controlling our

:44:21. > :44:25.borders and getting out make it easier? Yes it does. One of the

:44:26. > :44:29.things people like me have been suggesting is we have a proper point

:44:30. > :44:35.system for people coming to live and work in the UK. The system Australia

:44:36. > :44:39.has. We cannot apply that well we are members of the European Union

:44:40. > :44:44.because it is illegal under European law. If you cannot make your own law

:44:45. > :44:48.and you cannot control your own borders, you are not an independent,

:44:49. > :44:56.free, sovereign nation. If David Cameron loses and we do vote to go

:44:57. > :45:01.out, can he survive? Constitutionally, he can remain as

:45:02. > :45:07.Prime Minister to negotiate that. Would he survive? It is difficult to

:45:08. > :45:11.determine the political dynamics after the rough and tumble of a

:45:12. > :45:14.political referendum. There is no reason why he couldn't stay on and a

:45:15. > :45:19.lot of my colleagues think he should. Once we have been through

:45:20. > :45:23.the whole process of the referendum, as your audience earlier showed, you

:45:24. > :45:29.can develop some passionate views quickly. We will have to wait and

:45:30. > :45:32.see. I hope we stick to the arguments, we don't make it a

:45:33. > :45:36.personality -based and we behave in a way that will make it easier for

:45:37. > :45:41.us to come together again to govern the country after the 23rd of June.

:45:42. > :45:45.Will there be people in the Tory party thinking, if he doesn't

:45:46. > :45:50.survive, this will be my opportunity to be in the frame?

:45:51. > :45:54.Anybody thinks politicians do not think that way all the time isn't

:45:55. > :45:58.part of the political process. There is a clear decision to make. We must

:45:59. > :46:04.get sidetracked with issues over leadership of the party. Whether

:46:05. > :46:07.Britain takes a course that will have us tied into a European model

:46:08. > :46:11.which is failing, and that will require us to move towards ever

:46:12. > :46:15.closer union, or Britain takes a different course to make our own

:46:16. > :46:20.laws and control our own destiny is a huge choice for the British

:46:21. > :46:23.people. And all I say is I hope politicians stick to the big

:46:24. > :46:27.arguments and stick to the facts so that the public can make an informed

:46:28. > :46:30.choice about their own future. You have stood for the leadership

:46:31. > :46:35.before, Conservative Home website has you top of a poll saying that

:46:36. > :46:41.you could be the next leader if David Cameron were to go. Would you

:46:42. > :46:45.stand again? Wait and see. At my age, 54, in British politics that is

:46:46. > :46:49.almost geriatric according to the media. He have to be in your 30s and

:46:50. > :46:52.40s, apparently. There is a big debate to be had in this country

:46:53. > :47:00.about age, but this is not the point to have it. Is that a no customer

:47:01. > :47:12.because of your age? Never say never again. -- is that they know? -- is

:47:13. > :47:16.that a no. You will need your woolly jumper this week. It has been a cold

:47:17. > :47:24.start of the day across many parts. Not everywhere, mind you. In the

:47:25. > :47:27.south it is that -- little bit milder. Beautiful start of the day

:47:28. > :47:31.in the Shetland Isles. Look at the Sunrise. In Wakefield it was very

:47:32. > :47:36.frosty, as indeed it has been across many parts. Further south we have a

:47:37. > :47:38.weather front which is straddled across southern areas, introducing

:47:39. > :47:45.all of this cloud and some rain and some drizzle. In the north, brighter

:47:46. > :47:47.skies, and some sunshine. Wintry showers, quite a plethora of that

:47:48. > :47:52.across the North of Scotland, but by no means will we all see them.

:47:53. > :47:55.Increasing over the course of the day. They will fall at lower levels.

:47:56. > :47:59.It will brighten up across the Midlands. This cloud is right across

:48:00. > :48:03.the southern counties, right behind a band of rain, which is slowly

:48:04. > :48:06.moving into the English channel. Temperatures peaked at around 11

:48:07. > :48:11.Celsius in the south. They will go down as we go through the day. The

:48:12. > :48:13.cooler and brighter conditions will push south. Some travel in northern

:48:14. > :48:17.England and sunshine across Scotland. Wintry showers, still,

:48:18. > :48:23.again at lower levels. The Northern Ireland it is a mix of bright

:48:24. > :48:27.weather, and some showers. Feeling maybe, but beautiful in the

:48:28. > :48:33.sunshine. For Wales, lots of and showers, and in the lower levels

:48:34. > :48:38.there will be a lot of rain. The rain will have moved south, but it

:48:39. > :48:41.will come back in and touch Cornwall, Devon, Somerset as we go

:48:42. > :48:45.through this evening and overnight. There is a risk of some snow in

:48:46. > :48:50.Dartmoor, but it is just a risk at this stage. Tonight, for the rest of

:48:51. > :48:52.us, it will be cold, particularly from Northern Ireland, Northern

:48:53. > :48:56.Ireland, northwards through Scotland. Widespread frost. Also

:48:57. > :48:59.some patchy, freezing fog over northern England and Northern

:49:00. > :49:09.Ireland. Still this array of showers over the north-west of Scotland, and

:49:10. > :49:13.the North West of England. That is how we start tomorrow. Similar note.

:49:14. > :49:17.What out for ice on untreated surfaces where it has been done.

:49:18. > :49:20.Still some showers, some of them over north-western Scotland,

:49:21. > :49:25.Northern Ireland, western Scotland, and down the west coast of England

:49:26. > :49:30.as far as Norfolk. Away from the showers it will be a gorgeous day. A

:49:31. > :49:33.cold, crisp, winter 's day with lots of sunshine. No heatwave, we are

:49:34. > :49:39.looking at about two in Shetland, and about seven as we push towards

:49:40. > :49:43.the channel islands. Maybe a nine in London and Plymouth. On Wednesday,

:49:44. > :49:49.more of the same. A cold start, a frosty one. Some ice on untreated

:49:50. > :49:53.surfaces. There will be some sunshine and some showers. To riches

:49:54. > :49:57.between two and eight Celsius. Through the course of Wednesday,

:49:58. > :50:02.into Thursday morning, looking at a plume of blues which sweeps to the

:50:03. > :50:06.south. -- temperatures between two and eight Celsius. A frosty night,

:50:07. > :50:08.but it will be a lot more widespread than the earlier part of the week.

:50:09. > :50:17.-- frosty midweek. Hello, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:50:18. > :50:19.in for Victoria this morning. Welcome to the programme

:50:20. > :50:21.if you've just joined us, It's one of the most important

:50:22. > :50:24.issues facing the UK - would Britain be better off

:50:25. > :50:35.in or out of the European Union? It is the principle of not having

:50:36. > :50:37.control. Not having a say on how much money needs to go to education,

:50:38. > :50:42.how much needs to go to elude authorities to plan -- how much

:50:43. > :50:46.needs to go to local authorities to plan. This is a high issue on the

:50:47. > :50:51.agenda. We need to be concerned about having no control over

:50:52. > :50:56.immigration and... When you ever want to change something, and

:50:57. > :50:59.changes are required in the EU, I agree, the administration, the

:51:00. > :51:02.delivery, and the return it gives is not the best. But when you want to

:51:03. > :51:08.change something you do not change it by leaving, you have to change by

:51:09. > :51:17.being within. In the next two moments, we will get the view from

:51:18. > :51:18.the UK. -- in the next few moments, we will get the view from Europeans

:51:19. > :51:21.living in the UK. After the abuse at the Winterborne

:51:22. > :51:24.View care home, a learning disabilities commissioner should be

:51:25. > :51:31.appointed to protect the rights I am cold. I should have never come

:51:32. > :51:34.alone. You are never alone in Grimsby, bruv.

:51:35. > :51:37.And, Grimsby is fighting back - it's launched a campaign saying it's

:51:38. > :51:40.nothing like the town portrayed in a new film by the creator

:51:41. > :51:48.We will speak to people who live there.

:51:49. > :51:52.London Mayor Boris Johnson remained the centre of attention this morning

:51:53. > :51:54.after his decision yesterday to oppose David Cameron and back

:51:55. > :51:58.Later the Prime Minister will explain to his own MPs why

:51:59. > :52:02.they should support him and not Mr Johnson in his bid to keep the UK

:52:03. > :52:11.After the abuse at the Winterborne View care home -

:52:12. > :52:13.the Government's now being urged to appoint a learning disabilities

:52:14. > :52:15.commissioner to champion the rights of vulnerable people.

:52:16. > :52:17.The author of a care review, Sir Stephen Bubb, says

:52:18. > :52:20.that the challenges facing the care system are far greater

:52:21. > :52:27.A taxi driver has been arrested over a shooting rampage in Michigan

:52:28. > :52:30.There are reports that he may have picked up passengers

:52:31. > :52:35.And Benedict Cumberbatch has won the coveted Best Actor prize

:52:36. > :52:38.at the Whats-On-Stage award ceremony - for his portrayal of Hamlet

:52:39. > :52:42.It was decided by public vote - and his production also picked up

:52:43. > :52:53.Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:52:54. > :52:57.How did Ronnie O'Sullivan get all in the sneaker? He cannot stop winning.

:52:58. > :52:59.Ronnie O'Sullivan has continued his winning form,

:53:00. > :53:02.with a remarkable comeback to claim his fourth Welsh Open title.

:53:03. > :53:04.He secured the win with an impressive break of 141

:53:05. > :53:07.Earlier in the tournament, Rocket Ronnie complained

:53:08. > :53:10.of being bored, but he seemed to be having the time of his life

:53:11. > :53:18.as he won seven consecutive frames to beat Neil Robertson 9-5.

:53:19. > :53:24.I thought, just a income stay patient, if you build momentum, you

:53:25. > :53:33.know, just... You put each other under pressure so the opportunities

:53:34. > :53:37.come easier. -- just stay patient. I struggled at the Masters. I played

:53:38. > :53:40.but this week. I felt I found fluency this week. Even if I had

:53:41. > :53:43.lost I think I still would have enjoyed this week.

:53:44. > :53:46.Now, Chelsea's manager Gus Hiddink is used to winning too.

:53:47. > :53:52.And lifted the trophy in 2009 during his first stint in charge.

:53:53. > :53:55.He marched on to the quarter final stage this time round,

:53:56. > :53:59.The papers this morning have made a lot of City bringing in a number

:54:00. > :54:02.of youth team players - as the first team regulars play

:54:03. > :54:05.in the Champions League in just two days' time in Ukraine.

:54:06. > :54:10.But it's probably the veteran goalkeeper Willy Caballero who'll

:54:11. > :54:16.and to a last 8 fixture against the side he beat

:54:17. > :54:23.They made some changes. But making those changes were not mean it is

:54:24. > :54:27.more easy. Because the youngsters who came in, especially the

:54:28. > :54:32.strikers, they were dangerous in the first half. They made a good draw in

:54:33. > :54:35.the first. We were sloppy in defence. But I think it was clear we

:54:36. > :54:38.started well in the second half. So Chelsea's win was seen as men

:54:39. > :54:41.versus boys over City - and that is exactly how

:54:42. > :54:45.England's cricket head coach, This was the fifth loss

:54:46. > :54:50.in a row for England. They were defeated in the one-day

:54:51. > :54:53.series, and this T20 series ended Bayliss said his team had

:54:54. > :54:59.played some good cricket. Our cricket analyst Simon Hughes

:55:00. > :55:10.is focusing on the positives. As time went on, they looked weary.

:55:11. > :55:14.South Africa came back strong. They opened a couple of areas of

:55:15. > :55:19.inadequacy in England's cricket. Lower down the order they are not

:55:20. > :55:22.good enough at getting big scores. Also, I think their bowling is

:55:23. > :55:26.vulnerable in one-day cricket. But to finish a tour with a Test match

:55:27. > :55:31.wind, and some close series in one-day cricket, is pretty good from

:55:32. > :55:33.this young band of players. -- Test match win.

:55:34. > :55:36.And we'll end on a high - as Sarah Taylor inspired England's

:55:37. > :55:38.women to a 2-1 series win against South Africa.

:55:39. > :55:41.She hit another half-century, her third in a row, as England

:55:42. > :55:43.scored 133 for 6, to win by four wickets.

:55:44. > :55:46.Not surprising then she was named player of the match and series.

:55:47. > :55:49.They had already tied up the one-day international series 2-1,

:55:50. > :55:52.so the side are in good form ahead of their opening World T20 match

:55:53. > :56:03.Hello - thank you for joining us this morning.

:56:04. > :56:06.Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us,

:56:07. > :56:09.we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

:56:10. > :56:11.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:56:12. > :56:13.Wherever you are you can watch our programme online -

:56:14. > :56:20.via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:56:21. > :56:27.Lots of you have been in touch about Myrtle, the 92-year-old woman who is

:56:28. > :56:30.facing deportation. Marion says why is she being singled out at such a

:56:31. > :56:34.vulnerable state at her life. Another e-mail says, I am ashamed to

:56:35. > :56:38.be British, trying to deport a 92-year-old lady is horrendous. The

:56:39. > :56:45.people looking at this case need to be reprimanded for wasting

:56:46. > :56:49.taxpayers' money. This could have a traumatic effect on her. Another one

:56:50. > :56:52.says, the lady should be able to stay on compassionate grounds. Shame

:56:53. > :56:56.on the Home Office, they always get it wrong. How much is it costing the

:56:57. > :57:04.taxpayer taking this through the courts? Keep your opinions coming

:57:05. > :57:07.in. Wherever you are, you can watch our programme online on the BBC News

:57:08. > :57:12.app, or on the website. This morning - you've been telling

:57:13. > :57:15.us whether you think Britain is better off in or out

:57:16. > :57:23.of the European Union. Lots of people getting in touch.

:57:24. > :57:27.John says, I am not a big fan of the EU, but I would vote to stay in. If

:57:28. > :57:30.we vote to leave the EU it would trigger a vote for independence in

:57:31. > :57:36.Scotland. I think this time it would be a yes and it would lead to the

:57:37. > :57:39.break-up of the UK. Roger e-mails, there was much scaremongering in the

:57:40. > :57:42.argument put forward by both sides. Personally I believe if we get out

:57:43. > :57:46.of the EU it would give the government the power and tools to

:57:47. > :57:49.govern our country and secure our borders in a far better way for the

:57:50. > :57:55.British people. I do not feel European, I am British and I want to

:57:56. > :57:58.be controlled by UK laws, not by Brussels. Peter e-mails, I hope you

:57:59. > :58:02.talk about the issues over in your out and don't mention a political

:58:03. > :58:07.party. Do not mention any political party loyalty. None of that is

:58:08. > :58:09.important. The Mediate session in insisting who is involved and why

:58:10. > :58:16.take precedence over what they advocate. -- the media is accessed

:58:17. > :58:19.with insisting. Keep your opinions coming...

:58:20. > :58:24.But what do Europeans living in this country think?

:58:25. > :58:27.We can talk now to Andrea Munoz, who's from Spain and has been living

:58:28. > :58:31.here for two years, Mario Ovsenjak, who is Croatian and has been living

:58:32. > :58:33.in the UK for 20 years and Aneta Buckert who is Polish

:58:34. > :58:45.Thank you for joining us. Tell us how you would feel if Britain left

:58:46. > :58:52.the EU? I would very much prefer for Great Britain to stay in the EU.

:58:53. > :58:57.First, because I am Spanish, and I am living here. I have no intentions

:58:58. > :59:04.to leave. I am working here. This is my country now. It would be such a

:59:05. > :59:11.shame. What do you think about the issues around the referendum, things

:59:12. > :59:14.like... Benefits paid to immigrants, the level of immigration, all of

:59:15. > :59:19.those issues that have been debated for some time in Britain? At the end

:59:20. > :59:25.of the day we don't have an agenda. We don't really have decisions made

:59:26. > :59:32.clear on those fronts. The position we are in, now, is basically we

:59:33. > :59:37.don't know what will happen if we were to leave the EU. What is

:59:38. > :59:45.membership of the EU mean to you? -- what does. There are different

:59:46. > :59:52.levels... Different levels of benefits of being in the EU. We know

:59:53. > :59:55.there is a cultural benefit of sharing the British culture with

:59:56. > :00:05.European cultures, and teaching our children and grandchildren about

:00:06. > :00:12.European history. The biggest single peace time happened when we were all

:00:13. > :00:18.part of Europe. Everyone can see the benefits of that. The problem is we

:00:19. > :00:22.haven't been told in black and white, in numbers, what would it

:00:23. > :00:28.mean to stay in or go out, and I would like to see that. Is that what

:00:29. > :00:37.it would boil down to for you? A straightforward calculation... Not

:00:38. > :00:42.just that. If you look at it from a geopolitical level, where would we

:00:43. > :00:46.want our children to grow up, what kind of society? Who do we want

:00:47. > :00:50.globally to be friends with? If you have a look at what is happening

:00:51. > :00:57.saying in Russia, China, Donald Trump's US, who are the real allies,

:00:58. > :01:04.who are we sharing the values with? I think we are sharing the values of

:01:05. > :01:07.our everyday life with the EU. And that is very important. And, of

:01:08. > :01:14.course, the numbers would come into that. The numbers given, say in

:01:15. > :01:21.England, could be different to those given in Wales, or... Because of the

:01:22. > :01:24.contributions that is going from the EU into Wales could be different to

:01:25. > :01:30.the ones coming into the south-east of England. And so on. Also there is

:01:31. > :01:35.a great debate about Scotland. Scotland has just made a major

:01:36. > :01:38.decision based on its setup, do we want to change that? How do you see

:01:39. > :01:47.it? It is a much get picture. Britain is

:01:48. > :01:53.much stronger as part of the European Union so I would agree with

:01:54. > :01:56.David Cameron. If the European is strong, Britain is much better at

:01:57. > :02:02.being in it. It is a different position... Define that a bit more,

:02:03. > :02:05.why do you say Britain is stronger in its because people who want to

:02:06. > :02:10.get outside Britain could be just as strong out? If you look at the whole

:02:11. > :02:16.political picture and if you think how is Britain positioned in

:02:17. > :02:20.negotiation with other rising powers like China, India and other emerging

:02:21. > :02:27.markets, it is always a stronger partner when you have a 500 million

:02:28. > :02:33.community than a single country negotiating on its own. If you look

:02:34. > :02:37.at the dangerous risks we see elliptically, it is better for

:02:38. > :02:42.Britain to be part of the EU and Nato and represent its interests for

:02:43. > :02:48.a large, cohesive and consistent group of countries, rather than on

:02:49. > :02:57.its own. How would you feel if we were to leave? It would be a shame.

:02:58. > :03:01.It would probably cause some, I wouldn't say turmoil, but an

:03:02. > :03:04.unnecessary distraction for businesses and unnecessary

:03:05. > :03:08.distractions for all of the European citizens living here. Businesses and

:03:09. > :03:14.people would have do redefine how they are living in this country and

:03:15. > :03:17.what it means for them. Rather than focusing on the day-to-day business,

:03:18. > :03:21.you focus on the changes that may not bring anything good with it. Is

:03:22. > :03:28.this something you and everyone around you is talking about at the

:03:29. > :03:32.moment? Yes. Lots of Spanish people right now living in the UK, not only

:03:33. > :03:37.in London but in the whole of the UK. But we don't only have to think

:03:38. > :03:43.about EU citizens that are living in the UK, because there is lots of UK

:03:44. > :03:52.citizens that are living abroad and they living in other countries of

:03:53. > :03:56.the EU. So it is of concern whether what is going to happen to those

:03:57. > :04:00.people, lots of British people living in Spain, what will happen to

:04:01. > :04:06.them, will they had to start getting visas. Will we have to start needing

:04:07. > :04:12.visas to be able to live here. Thank you all very much. One of the

:04:13. > :04:16.arguments already dominating the EU referendum is the issue of security.

:04:17. > :04:18.The defence secretary Michael Fallon said this morning that the UK

:04:19. > :04:21.will be taking a big gamble with its security

:04:22. > :04:24.It's after his cabinet colleague, the work and pensions secretary

:04:25. > :04:27.Iain Duncan Smith, suggested that staying in the EU will leave Britain

:04:28. > :04:29.with an 'open border', raising the risk of Paris-style

:04:30. > :04:41.We already have control of our own borders. We have opted out of the

:04:42. > :04:46.open border arrangements in Europe. That is the advantage of what David

:04:47. > :04:50.Cameron has done. He has given Britain a special status in Europe,

:04:51. > :04:54.Parliament and businesses are protect it and our borders are

:04:55. > :04:59.protected. That is why the migrants are in the camp in Calais, they

:05:00. > :05:03.cannot come into Britain. Over the next few years, people who have

:05:04. > :05:08.taken people from various areas aren't going to give them leave to

:05:09. > :05:13.remain on passports and they could turn up again in the UK. These are

:05:14. > :05:17.big issues further down the road for us, because this open border does

:05:18. > :05:22.not allow us to check and control people that may come and spend time

:05:23. > :05:26.here. We saw in Paris they spent ages planning and plotting, so who

:05:27. > :05:29.is to say they might not already be thinking about that.

:05:30. > :05:36.Frank Gardner is here. It is dramatic when you have Cabinet

:05:37. > :05:42.minister Saint two dramatically different things, depending on

:05:43. > :05:45.whether we stay in or out? Security and counterterrorism should never be

:05:46. > :05:49.politicised. You need to put it on one side, it shouldn't be involved

:05:50. > :05:56.in party politics, mixed up in other issues like economy and migration.

:05:57. > :05:57.It is something on its own. Britain's stronger security and

:05:58. > :06:02.intelligence partnerships are not with Europe, they are with the

:06:03. > :06:07.United States and what is called the five guys, Australia, New Zealand,

:06:08. > :06:12.Canada and the US. They share intelligence on a massive basis. We

:06:13. > :06:15.have an incredibly close relationship with Australia, closer

:06:16. > :06:21.than they do with France. The question is, would we be safer or

:06:22. > :06:26.not in or out in terms of a Paris style attack? What matters is the

:06:27. > :06:30.strength of the borders. You have to separate people here from the tools

:06:31. > :06:34.with which they might carry out an attack. The reason why Britain

:06:35. > :06:40.hasn't suffered a Paris style attack so far is down to two things. Better

:06:41. > :06:44.intelligence on the continent, they are not very good at sharing

:06:45. > :06:49.intelligence between police and intelligence agencies from country

:06:50. > :06:53.to country. And borders. It is harder to get hold of powerful,

:06:54. > :06:57.automatic weapons like the Kalashnikov is used in both Paris a

:06:58. > :07:01.tax last year, it is harder to get hold of those here in Britain than

:07:02. > :07:06.it is in continental Europe. I spoke to the EU coordinator for

:07:07. > :07:10.counterterrorism after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and he said we have

:07:11. > :07:16.strengthened our borders with the Balkans, but once they have weapons

:07:17. > :07:20.in continental Europe, it is harder to stop them. Would it is easier to

:07:21. > :07:26.stop them at our borders because we are in a situation where it is

:07:27. > :07:30.easier to stop them currently. Where does that leave Iain Duncan Smith's

:07:31. > :07:35.claim we are at greater risk if we stay in? I am not going to steer

:07:36. > :07:42.people either way, it would be wrong for me to do that. What I would say,

:07:43. > :07:49.Britain's strongest intelligence and terrorism and counterterrorism

:07:50. > :07:54.intelligence is bilateral. People don't share things with the EU, per

:07:55. > :07:58.se, people start to get very possessive about what they are going

:07:59. > :08:02.to share. The strong relationships, Britain to France, France to Spain,

:08:03. > :08:08.Britain to Spain and primarily, Britain to the US. That will

:08:09. > :08:11.continue either way. Some things will be lost, some things will be

:08:12. > :08:18.gained. We have strong relationships with say Pakistan. I say we, Britain

:08:19. > :08:22.has in terms of sharing information. They tell us things, we tell them

:08:23. > :08:26.things. It has got nothing to do with a block in Europe. People just

:08:27. > :08:31.need to know the facts about this. It is about borders, it is about

:08:32. > :08:47.intelligence and it is about what is shared and what isn't. Thank you.

:08:48. > :08:53.An elderly woman was so happy at going to the White House, she

:08:54. > :10:19.couldn't stop and think. Let's have a watch. -- dancing.

:10:20. > :10:25.There are calls for the government to do far more to protect adults

:10:26. > :10:29.A new report says not enough has been done following the BBC Panorama

:10:30. > :10:31.programme which uncovered serious patient abuse and neglect

:10:32. > :10:35.at the Winterbourne View private hospital, near Bristol.

:10:36. > :11:00.Winterbourne View closed shortly after that programme

:11:01. > :11:06.Last year NHS England asked Sir Stephen Bubb to carry out

:11:07. > :11:11.a review of care provisions for people with learning

:11:12. > :11:13.disabilities in the wake of the the winterboure view scandal.

:11:14. > :11:15.Sir Stephen Bubb made 10 recommendations, including closing

:11:16. > :11:17.large "inappropriate in-patient facilities" in favour

:11:18. > :11:19.of care services for people in their own community

:11:20. > :11:22.and the introduction of a legal charter of rights for them

:11:23. > :11:26.But he now says not enough is being done to bring

:11:27. > :11:33.The government insists major changes are underway.

:11:34. > :11:36.We can speak to Sir Stephen Bubb now, author of the report and head

:11:37. > :11:38.of the Association of Chief Executives

:11:39. > :11:43.his 15 year-old son Josh Wills has severe autism

:11:44. > :11:47.He campaigned for three years to move his son from a hospital

:11:48. > :11:54.in Birmingham nearer to his family in Cornwall.

:11:55. > :11:56.Josh was actually moved last November.

:11:57. > :12:01.And Dan Scorer is Head of Policy at Mencap.

:12:02. > :12:10.Sir Stephen Bubb, you have gone a step further than you were before,

:12:11. > :12:14.why is that? I think the scale of the challenge is so big and the

:12:15. > :12:17.demand for change is so strong, I think we need a commissioner for

:12:18. > :12:26.learning disabilities who will act as a real advocate for change and to

:12:27. > :12:29.keep people on track. Why is that? Who is responsible for the fact it

:12:30. > :12:36.hasn't been moving as quickly as you would like, who would need the kick,

:12:37. > :12:41.if you like? There are issues on how society treats people with learning

:12:42. > :12:45.disabilities. Since my last report, we have the scandal in Southern

:12:46. > :12:51.health where you had unexplained deaths that went unreviewed. It was

:12:52. > :12:53.a shocking example of the way we as a society treats people with

:12:54. > :13:00.learning disabilities and their families. There are up to 1 million

:13:01. > :13:06.people with some form of learning disability. 300,000 children. It is

:13:07. > :13:08.the education services, how we as a society treats people with learning

:13:09. > :13:13.disabilities. We need someone who will act as a champion. There is a

:13:14. > :13:19.commission for children, for example. Something like that post to

:13:20. > :13:28.act as the advocate and keep people up to the mark. Who, central

:13:29. > :13:34.government? Central government, NHS England, the care services, the

:13:35. > :13:39.education services. A real... No one is taking it seriously enough?

:13:40. > :13:44.People take it seriously, but the fact that abuse has been happening,

:13:45. > :13:49.the fact you still have 3000 people in institutions, who are subject to

:13:50. > :13:54.physical restraint over medication and seclusion. We still haven't got

:13:55. > :13:59.them into the community. Even though we know and have known for decades,

:14:00. > :14:03.care and support in the community is better and it is more

:14:04. > :14:08.cost-effective. It is extraordinary we have tolerated a system I believe

:14:09. > :14:17.is institutionally abusive to people with learning disabilities. Your son

:14:18. > :14:22.Josh was in a home far away from the family, you are in Cornwall, he was

:14:23. > :14:27.in Birmingham. You are happy with the way he was treated, but upset it

:14:28. > :14:33.was so far away. Do you feel your family has been let down by the

:14:34. > :14:42.system? Josh was 12 when he was sent away. It was a case of we didn't

:14:43. > :14:50.feel listened to as a family. Josh was let down. We admitted we

:14:51. > :14:57.couldn't look after him at home. His self injury behaviour. We are seeing

:14:58. > :15:04.a picture of him there with a helmet on for protection? The helmet he

:15:05. > :15:12.wears for self restraint, because he still now tries to hurt himself. But

:15:13. > :15:16.he has a wonderful care package now. Cornwall Council, local authorities

:15:17. > :15:22.and the commissioners have worked with us now to get the package in

:15:23. > :15:26.place that Josh now has in Cornwall. What were the issues before, why

:15:27. > :15:32.couldn't the package be delivered in Cornwall before? Josh is unique in

:15:33. > :15:36.the way he hurt himself. He hurt himself to the extent that his

:15:37. > :15:43.injuries were life-threatening. His mum Sarah and I, step dad and step

:15:44. > :15:50.mum had to accept that Josh couldn't live with us in our houses because

:15:51. > :15:54.we really couldn't look after him. So he was hospitalised. The care

:15:55. > :15:56.wasn't available in Cornwall for his age and needs at the time, he was

:15:57. > :16:08.12. Birmingham came up. He went there

:16:09. > :16:12.just after his 12th birthday. I went with him in the ambulance. They did

:16:13. > :16:17.everything they could to keep him safe. But in the end it was a unit.

:16:18. > :16:24.The campaign we launched to bring Josh home garnered a lot of

:16:25. > :16:33.attention. Once he came home, last November, I have now changed tack.

:16:34. > :16:37.I'm saying, look at what can be done. So many options. There are so

:16:38. > :16:44.many families outburst rattling worse than we did. The care their

:16:45. > :16:50.children are receiving is not as good as the care Josh received. --

:16:51. > :16:57.out there struggling worse than we did. Did you feel like you were

:16:58. > :17:03.fighting a lone battle? Did you need somebody championing new issue? We

:17:04. > :17:12.had a lot of people fighting our case. Somebody stepped in. He got

:17:13. > :17:19.somebody to sort it out and ultimately it was sorted out. Even

:17:20. > :17:22.Norman would say that he felt a little frustrated, well, a lot

:17:23. > :17:28.frustrated, at the way things were so slowly moving. The first deadline

:17:29. > :17:35.that was set after Winterbourne came and went. We were in the middle of

:17:36. > :17:45.our campaign. We had 241,000 signatures. It is slow-moving. Dan,

:17:46. > :17:50.do you think a commissioner speaking on behalf families like this would

:17:51. > :17:54.make a difference? I think it could be important. But in relation to the

:17:55. > :17:59.programme Sir Stephen is talking about, which is moving as many as

:18:00. > :18:03.possible, 3500 of these people out of these institutions and back into

:18:04. > :18:07.the community, there is a plan that the NHS and local councils have

:18:08. > :18:11.agreed to. It would mean bringing 50% of those back. They need to hold

:18:12. > :18:15.account. One of the other recommendations around having an

:18:16. > :18:19.independent evaluation, an independent oversight, that this

:18:20. > :18:21.change is happening is so important. There are 50 new partnerships now

:18:22. > :18:30.working across the country to develop the right kind of services

:18:31. > :18:33.so children like Josh would not be sent out of their area. They would

:18:34. > :18:35.have the right support near their home. They would be sent hundreds of

:18:36. > :18:39.miles away with pressure and anxiety which is placed upon the family. We

:18:40. > :18:43.have a plan in place. There is a poor track record. These programmes

:18:44. > :18:48.have come and gone before and failed. The key thing is that the

:18:49. > :18:51.government, the NHS, and the local councils are held to account for the

:18:52. > :18:57.commitments which have actually been given. Thanks to all of you. The

:18:58. > :19:04.health minister told us that NHS thing that has launched a major

:19:05. > :19:09.initiative to move people out of institutions and back to their

:19:10. > :19:17.homes. This would include nurses giving care...

:19:18. > :19:32.Grimsby is fighting back - saying it's nothing like the image

:19:33. > :19:37.presented in Sacha Baron Cohen's new film of the same name.

:19:38. > :19:42.We'll be speaking to people who live there.

:19:43. > :19:47.London mayor, Boris Johnson, remained the centre of attention

:19:48. > :19:49.this morning after his decision yesterday to oppose David Cameron

:19:50. > :19:54.Later the Prime Minister will explain to his own MPs why

:19:55. > :19:55.they should support him and not Mr Johnson,

:19:56. > :20:10.in his bid to keep the UK in what he calls a reformed EU.

:20:11. > :20:13.A taxi driver has been arrested over an apparently random shooting spree

:20:14. > :20:17.There are reports that he may have allegedly picked up passengers

:20:18. > :20:21.At least 21 people have died in the Pacific islands of Fiji

:20:22. > :20:23.after a powerful cyclone flattened entire villages.

:20:24. > :20:25.Some of the outlying islands are still waiting for help -

:20:26. > :20:29.the government's asked for help with transport and supplies.

:20:30. > :20:31.And Benedict Cumberbatch has won the coveted Best Actor prize

:20:32. > :20:34.at the Whats-On-Stage award ceremony for his portrayal of Hamlet

:20:35. > :20:38.It was decided by public vote and his production also picked up

:20:39. > :20:58.After a week in which snooker's Welsh Open has frequently made the

:20:59. > :21:01.news because of Ronnie O'Sullivan's comments he went on to win the

:21:02. > :21:06.tournament, beating Robertson in the final. No signs of boredom, or a

:21:07. > :21:11.maximum break. Chelsea will travel to Everton after they thrashed the

:21:12. > :21:14.young Manchester City side 5-1 at Stamford Bridge. The other last

:21:15. > :21:20.eight fixtures are on the BBC sport website. Trevor Bayliss described

:21:21. > :21:24.the T20 loss to South Africa as men against boys as they were thrashed

:21:25. > :21:29.by nine wickets. It is their fifth straight loss, meaning they lose the

:21:30. > :21:33.series 2-1. Success for the women's team. Taylor inspired England to a

:21:34. > :21:38.win against South Africa, claiming the series 2-1. Taylor hit her third

:21:39. > :21:43.half-century in a row as England scored 133-6 to win by four wickets.

:21:44. > :21:44.Thanks very much. How much do you need to earn before

:21:45. > :21:47.you're allowed to live It might sound like an irrelevant

:21:48. > :21:51.question but it's not for any UK citizen who wants

:21:52. > :21:53.to bring their foreign In 2012, new immigration rules

:21:54. > :21:57.were introduced which means people who are entitled to live here,

:21:58. > :22:00.have to be earning at least ?18,500 a year before

:22:01. > :22:02.they qualify to bring The change in the law has meant

:22:03. > :22:08.thousands of families have been separated

:22:09. > :22:12.because of the income requirement. Today it's being challenged

:22:13. > :22:16.in the Supreme Court. Divya Talwar has been speaking

:22:17. > :22:19.to some of these so-called "Skype families" who've been created

:22:20. > :22:25.since the rule changes. My son has been damaged

:22:26. > :22:30.because of this. You know, he thinks

:22:31. > :22:39.a phone is his father. Essentially, the Conservative

:22:40. > :22:44.government are putting a price It is about fairness,

:22:45. > :22:51.it is about making sure Can only call upon spouses

:22:52. > :22:55.when they have got Some people will say that

:22:56. > :23:00.you have essentially I will do whatever it takes to keep

:23:01. > :23:15.my family together. The seaside town of Barry

:23:16. > :23:20.Island in south Wales. This is now home for Amira and her

:23:21. > :23:31.son Jude since she fled from Syria. Two years ago, the daily sounds

:23:32. > :23:34.of gunfire and barrel bombs were normal life in Damascus

:23:35. > :23:39.with her Syrian husband Ahmed. She met Ahmed through her

:23:40. > :23:46.relatives living there. When Amira fell pregnant

:23:47. > :23:48.with Jude, the couple decided that they had

:23:49. > :23:50.to leave the country. Amira came back to the UK just

:23:51. > :23:53.before giving birth, He could not get a visa -

:23:54. > :23:59.and still can't. I don't meet the means

:24:00. > :24:04.or the requirements to bring my husband here on a spouse

:24:05. > :24:09.visa, or likewise a family visa. I will never earn ?18,600

:24:10. > :24:14.being a single mother. I wish he could have

:24:15. > :24:16.come with me, I wish he could have been there

:24:17. > :24:18.to support me in getting But he could not come

:24:19. > :24:23.here because we do Amira gave birth to Jude a week

:24:24. > :24:32.after coming back to the UK. You know, he has missed

:24:33. > :24:43.the first birthday, he has missed him walking, he has

:24:44. > :24:47.missed him crawling. My son has been damaged

:24:48. > :24:53.because of this. I have been trying

:24:54. > :25:08.for a very long time. Obviously, Syria is not

:25:09. > :25:12.an option at all. We cannot return, for numerous

:25:13. > :25:15.reasons, and obviously one of them is, we don't fancy being

:25:16. > :25:17.killed any time soon. No ifs, no buts, this is a promise

:25:18. > :25:20.we made to the British people, We need to address people's

:25:21. > :25:27.concerns about immigration. I am very clear about who the boss

:25:28. > :25:31.is, about who I answer to - They are not being

:25:32. > :25:35.unreasonable about it. Part of David Cameron's

:25:36. > :25:39.master plan to control immigration from outside

:25:40. > :25:41.Europe was the introduction of the minimum income threshold

:25:42. > :25:43.for Britons bringing He also hoped it would

:25:44. > :25:51.cut the benefit bill. In terms of family reunion,

:25:52. > :25:56.because we have said the families you come to have to have a certain

:25:57. > :25:59.income, that has cut visas The rule change does

:26:00. > :26:05.seem to have worked. Spouse visas have been

:26:06. > :26:11.coming down since 2012. This is Precious Depasse and her son

:26:12. > :26:16.Marley, who is 18 months. She is in her final year

:26:17. > :26:21.at university and has a job lined up as a trainee teacher

:26:22. > :26:25.when she graduates this September. The problem is, though,

:26:26. > :26:27.she will not be earning enough to sponsor

:26:28. > :26:35.Marley's dad into the UK. Precious met Max when she was

:26:36. > :26:40.studying abroad in Tanzania. She fell pregnant,

:26:41. > :26:43.and that is when she found out She came back to the UK

:26:44. > :26:47.alone two years And the family have

:26:48. > :26:55.been apart since. I do feel like we are in limbo

:26:56. > :26:59.because we do not know what the next year will bring, if we will still be

:27:00. > :27:01.in the same situation. Do you think your

:27:02. > :27:03.relationship can survive? It does put a big strain

:27:04. > :27:10.on the relationship. So hopefully, we will last

:27:11. > :27:12.the two years, or whatever What is your biggest

:27:13. > :27:17.concern about the situation My biggest fear is that we would

:27:18. > :27:31.have to go our separate ways, really, and just continue

:27:32. > :27:33.as a single parent. Does that scare you,

:27:34. > :27:36.that that might actually happen? It does because I never thought

:27:37. > :27:38.in a million years that this Recent research by Oxford

:27:39. > :27:42.University's migration observatory found that close to 40%

:27:43. > :27:44.of the working British population do not earn enough

:27:45. > :27:46.to meet the minimum For a young woman like Precious

:27:47. > :27:50.living outside of London, here in Birmingham, she is even

:27:51. > :27:59.less likely to meet it. And essentially, the Conservative

:28:00. > :28:01.government are putting a price Can you understand why

:28:02. > :28:05.these rules are in place? The government does

:28:06. > :28:06.not want taxpayers essentially to have

:28:07. > :28:08.to support families? Well, non-EU citizens

:28:09. > :28:17.cannot claim any benefits. And secondly, if he

:28:18. > :28:19.was here, our family would be earning twice

:28:20. > :28:22.as much as we are now. So it would not be a burden

:28:23. > :28:28.on the state whatsoever. Since leaving Syria,

:28:29. > :28:32.Amira's home in Damascus Family members have

:28:33. > :28:39.lost their lives. Her husband Ahmed has

:28:40. > :28:41.now fled to Turkey. Jude is one of at least 15,000

:28:42. > :28:49.British children growing up in Skype families since

:28:50. > :28:52.the new rules came in, according to a report

:28:53. > :28:58.by the Children's Commissioner. He is trying to get to him,

:28:59. > :29:01.to give him cuddles. This is not him just trying

:29:02. > :29:03.to press the buttons, You see, he just wants

:29:04. > :29:10.to try and get to his dad, How can you carry on like this,

:29:11. > :29:27.how can we continue to live You know, we want to be

:29:28. > :29:33.able to be together, The Government has been locked

:29:34. > :30:06.in a legal tussle ever First, the income threshold

:30:07. > :30:12.was challenged in the High Court. So the government went

:30:13. > :30:16.to the Court of Appeal. But now it all comes down

:30:17. > :30:20.to who wins in there, when four British families

:30:21. > :30:21.bring their fight Their lawyers will argue

:30:22. > :30:26.in the Supreme Court that the income threshold interferes

:30:27. > :30:28.with their right to a family life. I think the Government

:30:29. > :30:30.has got a very good chance of winning this

:30:31. > :30:32.last and final case. I think they have a good chance

:30:33. > :30:38.because it is about fairness. when they have got

:30:39. > :30:40.enough funds to do so. And that protects them,

:30:41. > :30:42.it protects their spouses, to give them that better

:30:43. > :30:44.chance of prospering here. And preventing them being a burden

:30:45. > :30:51.on the British taxpayer. There is a big online network

:30:52. > :30:53.of so-called Skype families waiting for the outcome of

:30:54. > :30:56.this court challenge. Some couples, though,

:30:57. > :30:59.have advice on how they have managed to get around the income

:31:00. > :31:01.threshold by using a It is called the Surinder

:31:02. > :31:10.Singh route, after a landmark case establishing it,

:31:11. > :31:12.and here is how it works. The income threshold does

:31:13. > :31:14.not apply to citizens So let's say Anita,

:31:15. > :31:19.who is a British citizen, is married to Raj,

:31:20. > :31:21.who lives in India. Anita does not earn enough

:31:22. > :31:24.to bring Raj into the UK, but if she moves to a country

:31:25. > :31:27.in the economic European Union, let's say France, and

:31:28. > :31:29.if Anita lives there with Raj and she works

:31:30. > :31:32.there for a minimum of three months, she can return to

:31:33. > :31:34.Britain under the EU's free movement laws,

:31:35. > :31:37.and she will effectively be treated So she no longer needs to meet

:31:38. > :31:45.the income requirement. I have spoken to three

:31:46. > :31:48.couples who have recently moved to Ireland

:31:49. > :31:50.and are using the Surinder Singh route eventually to

:31:51. > :31:56.come back to the UK. None of them would

:31:57. > :31:59.speak to me on camera. They are worried if the government

:32:00. > :32:01.finds out, it might try So I have come to meet a family

:32:02. > :32:05.who has already used the route and is now back

:32:06. > :32:08.from their temporary move to Ireland and able to live together

:32:09. > :32:10.legally in their This is Wayne Pearsall,

:32:11. > :32:18.his wife Anna and their two children, Charlie,

:32:19. > :32:20.three, and Chloe, six. She met Wayne when she was visiting

:32:21. > :32:26.the UK for six months. They fell in love

:32:27. > :32:28.and they had Chloe. But Wayne was earning 3,000 short

:32:29. > :32:31.of the income requirement, Because these people,

:32:32. > :32:39.this country, does not They just want Mummy

:32:40. > :32:51.to live back in Indonesia. Some people will say that you have

:32:52. > :32:55.essentially cheated the system. I will do whatever it takes

:32:56. > :32:58.to keep my family together. But it is not cheating

:32:59. > :33:00.the system, it is a The Government should not force

:33:01. > :33:05.us to have to use free movement, they should not force

:33:06. > :33:07.British citizens out of Britain We asked the Immigration Minister,

:33:08. > :33:16.James Brokenshire, for an interview. Instead, a Home Office

:33:17. > :33:19.spokesperson told us in a

:33:20. > :33:35.statement... Amira is now considering

:33:36. > :33:41.the Surinder Singh route, but first she is

:33:42. > :33:43.waiting on the outcome I just wish my husband and Jude

:33:44. > :33:49.could muck about in the sand and go and paddle and build sand castles -

:33:50. > :33:52.just mundane, everyday things that that you would do at the beach,

:33:53. > :33:58.but with your dad. I just wish that that

:33:59. > :34:12.could happen at some point soon. You can find out more on that story

:34:13. > :34:17.on the Asian network today. Pressure continues to building

:34:18. > :34:19.on the Government to give the meningitis B vaccine

:34:20. > :34:21.to all children aged under 11. The number of signatories

:34:22. > :34:49.to a petition has now That was a photograph of Mason

:34:50. > :34:54.Timmins. Mason won seven and he died in 2013. Putting out that photo must

:34:55. > :34:59.bring it all back to? It was hard, but it was a decision we made to

:35:00. > :35:07.raise awareness and keep his memory alive. Tell us about Mason? He was

:35:08. > :35:14.fun loving, very mysterious, into everything. Loved his motorbikes,

:35:15. > :35:22.loved his motocross bike. Always got something to say. He was just a

:35:23. > :35:28.special little boy. One morning he told you he wasn't feeling well? He

:35:29. > :35:35.woke up around 6:30am and was just sick. He spent the day on the sofa,

:35:36. > :35:41.as most children do with what we thought at the time, was a sickness

:35:42. > :35:47.bug. By 3:30 p.m., he had a temperature. I gave him some cal

:35:48. > :35:54.poll. The temperature didn't come down and I took him to the doctors.

:35:55. > :35:59.He became very sleepy and then lost consciousness in the Doctor. An

:36:00. > :36:04.ambulance came and took him to hospital, where they had to put him

:36:05. > :36:08.on to live support. We then got transferred to Stoke, because they

:36:09. > :36:14.have a specialist care team. By the time we arrived at Stoke a set the

:36:15. > :36:19.meningitis had already attacked his brain and he was clinically

:36:20. > :36:25.brain-dead. This was all from six o'clock in the morning to midnight

:36:26. > :36:31.on the same day. It is terrifying how quickly everything can change.

:36:32. > :36:34.It was just so quick. You have put out the photograph because you want

:36:35. > :36:41.to raise awareness for other parents, what is the best message

:36:42. > :36:47.you can give? Any doubt, dial 999 or A Forget the rush, Mason didn't

:36:48. > :36:52.have the rush. Although it is important. Mason never had the rush,

:36:53. > :36:58.even when he died. Any doubt whatsoever, get them medically

:36:59. > :37:03.checked. When he woke up and he was sick, was there any indication it

:37:04. > :37:08.was anything more serious than a normal sickness bug? None

:37:09. > :37:11.whatsoever, he woke up and he was sick and throughout the day he was

:37:12. > :37:19.wanting to watch the TV and he wanted to watch Casper The Friendly

:37:20. > :37:25.Ghost. Nothing more than I had ever seen with a normal sick this book.

:37:26. > :37:29.What did doctors you about how he would have got it and how long would

:37:30. > :37:34.it be in his system, do you know anything before? Obviously he had

:37:35. > :37:39.been fined a day before and then woke up and he was sick? They did

:37:40. > :37:44.say they don't really understand how it can be caught, but it could have

:37:45. > :37:50.been in his system for some time before, but how quick it attacked

:37:51. > :37:57.the brain. But there were now other outward signs. He had actually been

:37:58. > :38:07.vaccinated for viral meningitis, but not the bacterial? He had the

:38:08. > :38:11.meningitis C vaccination is, but not the Men B, which is what we are

:38:12. > :38:17.campaigning for. There is a lack of understanding and awareness when

:38:18. > :38:23.children have had their meningitis vaccine, but they are not aware of

:38:24. > :38:26.the different types. You are part of this campaign which is attracting

:38:27. > :38:35.huge number of signatures. 700,000 people signing a petition to get the

:38:36. > :38:39.meningitis B vaccine rolled out to all children? It should be

:38:40. > :38:45.available, I have paid privately for my daughter. I recommend any

:38:46. > :38:51.parents, it should be available for all children anyway. Thank you very

:38:52. > :38:56.much for joining us, thank you. Thank you.

:38:57. > :38:59.Sacha Baron Cohen's the comedy genius behind Ali G,

:39:00. > :39:01.His latest film is opening in London tonight.

:39:02. > :39:04.It's called "Grimsby" and it tells the story of reformed football

:39:05. > :39:12.hooligan who is forced to go on the run with his brother -

:39:13. > :39:24.I should never have come here alone. You're alone in Grimsby. Lads? See

:39:25. > :39:31.those blokes out there, they can Manchester United supporters. You

:39:32. > :39:53.delay them, I promise I will burn your school down for you.

:39:54. > :39:55.But his latest comic creation is causing outrage

:39:56. > :40:08.Grimsby's local council has launched a "Love Grimsby" campaign to counter

:40:09. > :40:17.want to thank both my guess for joining us. People seeing the funny

:40:18. > :40:23.side of this? We will wait until we see the film, but I think so. We

:40:24. > :40:26.have a great sense of humour in Grimsby and Cleethorpes. We have got

:40:27. > :40:33.to be able to laugh at ourselves, but the towns have a huge amount to

:40:34. > :40:36.offer. You say people wait wait and see, but Ricky Tomlinson gave an

:40:37. > :40:40.interview and he said people will either love it or hate it. But

:40:41. > :40:49.people in Grimsby will hate it, he says? The fact it was filmed in

:40:50. > :40:57.Tilbury cannot reflect on the town of Grimsby, can it? We can all pick

:40:58. > :41:02.a poor attitude in every town and city in the land. I think Grimsby

:41:03. > :41:08.suffers because of its name. Is it the name? It is like to go to place

:41:09. > :41:13.if you need a town to take the Mickey out of because it is easy to

:41:14. > :41:18.make the joke. It has been the butt of jokes for years on end. It is

:41:19. > :41:26.another thing that people will just go, let's get over it and build up

:41:27. > :41:30.again. Do you love Grimsby? Like you wouldn't believe it. I was asked to

:41:31. > :41:35.addition the film, they said they were looking for an overweight

:41:36. > :41:40.Grimsby Town fan in his early 30s. I said I have been training for that

:41:41. > :41:44.the 20 years! I didn't get it, it was an awful day. The film could

:41:45. > :41:51.have picked anywhere, but they went the Grimsby because of the name.

:41:52. > :41:58.They needed a working-class town that has a big football heritage.

:41:59. > :42:00.What is so great about Grimsby? We haven't got time to cover

:42:01. > :42:05.everything, but the fishing heritage, the National Museum. Nigel

:42:06. > :42:11.is sat in a famous fish and chip shop. If you haven't been in there,

:42:12. > :42:19.something is wrong. There is a whole host of things. The thing is,

:42:20. > :42:24.Kazakhstan and Stains, host of things. The thing is,

:42:25. > :42:30.and Borat had filmed there host of things. The thing is,

:42:31. > :42:37.the top holiday destination. Is it now? Well, if you have never been

:42:38. > :42:40.that, you should definitely should. Joanna, you would be welcoming

:42:41. > :42:45.Cleethorpes, a wonderful beach and the countryside. Terrific community

:42:46. > :42:50.to live in and a wonderful environment. Good quality of life

:42:51. > :42:54.here, come and visit. I am definitely tempted, now I know you

:42:55. > :42:59.have the best fish and chips. Fish and chips and a whole host of other

:43:00. > :43:05.restaurants to do in both times, Cleethorpes and Grimsby. They are

:43:06. > :43:10.inseparable, Lloyd? Yes, they are like mothers and sisters. My mum has

:43:11. > :43:17.a guesthouse in Cleethorpes, so if you need somewhere to stay, I'm sure

:43:18. > :43:20.she would do you mate 's rates. It was filmed in Grimsby Cleethorpes,

:43:21. > :43:30.so that is why people will like it. Why didn't they? Logistically, it

:43:31. > :43:35.was more sense to be based down the road in Tilbury. Also I don't want

:43:36. > :43:38.to make an enemy of Sasha Baron Cohen because I want to be one of

:43:39. > :43:42.his films one day. But if you're going to take the Mickey out of one

:43:43. > :43:47.time, you will come up with opposition. It was too good common

:43:48. > :43:57.environment and the films they were still am -- the films they were

:43:58. > :43:59.filming, they did, do some research. Thank you for your company today, I

:44:00. > :44:02.will see you tomorrow. MUSIC: Close To You

:44:03. > :44:08.by the Carpenters Will Scotland finally

:44:09. > :44:12.turn the tide against Italy?