25/02/2016

:00:00. > :00:14.Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:15. > :00:18.He claims he's been dismissed over evidence he gave to an inquiry

:00:19. > :00:21.into sex crimes committed by Jimmy Savile at the corporation,

:00:22. > :00:27.It comes as that report from Dame Janet Smith on the BBC

:00:28. > :00:30.culture that allowed Jimmy Savile to abuse victims

:00:31. > :00:32.while he was working for the corporation

:00:33. > :00:39.We'll hear from one man who tells us he was abused by Jimmy Saville

:00:40. > :00:48.after his cub scout group appeared on Jim'll Fix It; he says he doesn?t

:00:49. > :00:52.after his cub scout group appeared on Jim'll Fix It; he says he doesn't

:00:53. > :01:00.Also ahead, a stellar night for Adele at the Brits.

:01:01. > :01:14.Astronaut Tim PeakE dialled in from space to present her

:01:15. > :01:21.with one of four awards at the ceremony in London.

:01:22. > :01:25.Congratulations to Adele. You've taken the world by storm. I wish I

:01:26. > :01:27.was there to present your award. Hello, welcome to the programme,

:01:28. > :01:30.we're on BBC 2 and the BBC You can get in touch in the usual

:01:31. > :01:35.ways; use the hashtag Victoria live. If you text, you will be charged

:01:36. > :01:38.at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

:01:39. > :01:42.the programme online wherever you are via the bbc news app

:01:43. > :01:46.or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria. Let's get straight to our main news;

:01:47. > :01:50.the story that will dominate much The DJ Tony Blackburn says he's been

:01:51. > :01:56.sacked by the BBC in a row over his evidence to

:01:57. > :01:58.the Jimmy Savile inquiry, that he claims is evidence

:01:59. > :02:01.of a continuing cover-up. He's devastated,

:02:02. > :02:05.he says and will sue. Tony Blackburn says

:02:06. > :02:11.the Dame Janet Smith report includes a claim that he was questioned

:02:12. > :02:14.decades ago by a senior BBC executive and a senior lawyer

:02:15. > :02:18.about an allegation that he was one of a number of celebrities

:02:19. > :02:21.who seduced a 15-year old girl. That's not true, he claims not only

:02:22. > :02:25.was he cleared of any wrongdoing at the time, but he says

:02:26. > :02:28.the questioning never took place. We're still waiting for BBC bosses

:02:29. > :02:32.to comment, but let's get the details of Tony

:02:33. > :03:22.Blackburn's statement. support on Twitter, this morning

:03:23. > :03:28.he's tweeted: I just want to say thanks so much for your overwhelming

:03:29. > :03:31.support it means a lot to me. We'll hear from Dame Janet Smith

:03:32. > :03:34.from about 10 o'clock this morning But first one of Jimmy Savile's

:03:35. > :03:43.victims says he doesn't understand why he was singled

:03:44. > :03:46.out by the TV star. Kevin Cook says he was sexually

:03:47. > :03:49.abused by Jimmy Savile when he was nine years

:03:50. > :03:52.old after his cub Scout group He's waived his right to anonymity

:03:53. > :04:07.to speak to us and joins me. You were a nine-year-old boy when

:04:08. > :04:13.you were abused by Jimmy Savile and you didn't tell a soul until 2002

:04:14. > :04:20.when wider allegations emerged. Presumably up until that point you

:04:21. > :04:25.thought you were alone? Yes. I always thought it was a one-off and

:04:26. > :04:32.it was just me until in 2012 when all the stories started breaking,

:04:33. > :04:40.there was all the exposure and then every day in the Sun newspaper, I

:04:41. > :04:51.used to read it, that was just coming out day-by-day. How did you

:04:52. > :04:56.feel at that point, that you had never spoken out about it and now it

:04:57. > :04:59.was out there? I personally felt relieved it was other people. Now I

:05:00. > :05:07.have to deal with the guilt of that, but like I say, it was easier for me

:05:08. > :05:13.to know that there was others that was coming out every day and it was

:05:14. > :05:19.mainly female and then there was another male had come forward and

:05:20. > :05:24.then that just, it was just such a relief for me because for 35 years

:05:25. > :05:27.inside of me it was all bottled up thinking, why me, what have I done,

:05:28. > :05:33.I must have done something wrong, and all of a sudden, I know I'm not

:05:34. > :05:39.to blame. So take us back to when you were a

:05:40. > :05:46.nine-year-old boy. How did you meet Jimmy Savile? What happened? I was

:05:47. > :05:51.part of a local Cub Scout group who wrote to Jim'll Fix It. We wanted to

:05:52. > :05:58.do a milk float race around Brands Hatch which we were accepted for and

:05:59. > :06:01.we went and done. And you then subsequently went to the studios to

:06:02. > :06:09.see him for a recording of Jim'll Fix It. What happened then? Well,

:06:10. > :06:14.when we were split up, some of the cubs, most of the cubs went in the

:06:15. > :06:21.studio, audience, to watch and eight were picked out to do the main TV

:06:22. > :06:30.programme be it we'd all done the Brands Hatch race previously. We

:06:31. > :06:38.were all on the stage, eight of us, so film for that and I was told that

:06:39. > :06:42.we were going to get one big badge which was disappointing because I

:06:43. > :06:46.thought we were all going to get an individual badge and then I was

:06:47. > :06:51.asked if I would like my own one which of course I jumped at. And he

:06:52. > :06:58.asked you that directly, did he? Yes. That was my first prop ever

:06:59. > :07:03.conversation with him. I'd met him and we'd been mingling around him

:07:04. > :07:07.but that was the proper first conversation. He was a huge star at

:07:08. > :07:13.that time, one of the biggest shows on TV, how did you see him? It was

:07:14. > :07:19.almost God-like. He was one of the biggest stars. Everybody I know

:07:20. > :07:24.wrote to the programme, all my friends, everybody couldn't believe

:07:25. > :07:30.when I was going on there and school friends, you know, it was just

:07:31. > :07:37.suddenly I became Mr Popular and everyone wanted to be my friend

:07:38. > :07:42.because of that. He was just the Man at the time.

:07:43. > :07:45.Suddenly you had an opportunity to get your own individual Jim'll Fix

:07:46. > :07:51.It medal when everybody else was having to share one? Yes. How did

:07:52. > :07:56.you... What happened, he said you'd get one but you had to go off with

:07:57. > :08:00.him in order to get it? Yes. He then came back to me, approached me on

:08:01. > :08:03.the stage after the filming when we were all on the stage and asked me

:08:04. > :08:08.if I would like to go and get my badge. I said yes, then I was led

:08:09. > :08:18.off the stage and walked off with him. We went through some doorsand

:08:19. > :08:22.then off into a so-called dressing room. After that, what do you

:08:23. > :08:30.remember? Well, we went into the room, he

:08:31. > :08:37.closed the door behind him, it was a little dark, din edgy room, not like

:08:38. > :08:44.his dressing room would be -- dingy. It was almost like a cleaning

:08:45. > :08:49.cupboard, horrible little room, small desk, vanity mirror with a

:08:50. > :08:54.wardrobe, and then he pulled out the chair, towards the middle of the

:08:55. > :08:59.room, told me to sit down, he stood in front of me and that's when it

:09:00. > :09:06.took place. What was going through your mind?

:09:07. > :09:19.It was hard to say. Obviously, he started to touch my leg at first and

:09:20. > :09:24.then I was thinking, what's happening, and you know, what is

:09:25. > :09:35.actually going on, you can't describe it. Obviously you know it

:09:36. > :09:38.was almost as if you think, is this happening, it carried on from there

:09:39. > :09:42.and it was just awful. So how long were you alone with him

:09:43. > :09:51.at that point? Probably a couple of minutes. It wasn't long at all.

:09:52. > :10:05.Probably a few minutes at the most. Did he speak? Yes. He was just sort

:10:06. > :10:08.of talking saying "you'll be OK" and just, "you're fine" but that's all

:10:09. > :10:14.he was saying until the end of it and that's when he did speak more.

:10:15. > :10:22.What did he say then? Well, when it was finished, he issued some threats

:10:23. > :10:25.to me. He told me "don't you dare tell anybody, no-one will believe

:10:26. > :10:34.you, I'm King Jimmy and we know where you live. " That still

:10:35. > :10:40.horrifies me to this day. And it did intimidate you into

:10:41. > :10:45.silence? Yes, definitely. Somebody else came into that room?

:10:46. > :10:48.Yes. Initially when you spoke about it, it took you some time toe reveal

:10:49. > :10:53.the full detail of what had happened? Yes. Talk us through what

:10:54. > :10:57.happened? There was a knock on the door? Yes. The story I initially

:10:58. > :11:02.told was there was a knock on the door and the man opened the door,

:11:03. > :11:09.saw the room was occupied and said "oops" and walked back out. But that

:11:10. > :11:15.wasn't the case. The man walked in, closed the door behind him and then

:11:16. > :11:18.approached myself where I was sitting down and

:11:19. > :11:22.approached myself where I was assault took place. I mean, he

:11:23. > :11:32.sexually abused me and also fizz chill abused me. With Savile there.

:11:33. > :11:36.Savile actually stopped him the second time, he hit me on top of the

:11:37. > :11:42.head and Savile stopped him the second time if doing it by grabbing

:11:43. > :11:52.his hand. By now I was obviously hysterical and crying. How did they

:11:53. > :11:57.respond to the fact that you were a little boy and were crying? They

:11:58. > :12:04.didn't care. Savile stopped him the second time striking me. But nothing

:12:05. > :12:09.was said, apart from telling me to shut up and stop crying and telling

:12:10. > :12:14.me I'd be all right. But no, it was like animals.

:12:15. > :12:21.Jimmy Savile then said "I'm King Jimmy"? That's when he said the

:12:22. > :12:26.threats after the other man finished, went out the room and

:12:27. > :12:31.that's when he issued his threats. And then did Jimmy Savile take you

:12:32. > :12:36.back to the other group as if nothing had happened? Yes. That was

:12:37. > :12:40.it, we walked back on to the stage and that was it, the end of it.

:12:41. > :12:45.Can you remember how you were feeling? You must have been in a

:12:46. > :12:51.state of complete trauma? Yes. I mean, I was really, really upset.

:12:52. > :12:58.But I can't remember the details of that. I can remember someone asking

:12:59. > :13:04.me on the coach coming back how I felt, what was the matter with me

:13:05. > :13:08.and I just said "nothing, I'm fine" and then that was it. Why did it

:13:09. > :13:16.take you even longer to reveal what had happened with the second person

:13:17. > :13:22.in that room? Obviously Savile died a few years before this all came out

:13:23. > :13:28.in 2011 and obviously I wasn't scared of him no more. But this

:13:29. > :13:38.second person, I mean he could still be out there, and I was scared of

:13:39. > :13:43.facing him, facing possible court action if he's ever found,

:13:44. > :13:48.protecting my family, because the second part is more horrifying than

:13:49. > :13:56.the first part. To this day, my wife, my mum, no-one knows the full

:13:57. > :14:03.story there. It 'll only be what they've read or heard, you know, I

:14:04. > :14:06.can't bring myself to tell people. I was always scared, but obviously now

:14:07. > :14:11.I've come to terms with it, you know, it's gone the other way, I'm

:14:12. > :14:16.not scared no more, I want to face this person.

:14:17. > :14:22.For all those years, you buried this in yourself. But, as we said, Jimmy

:14:23. > :14:26.Savile was one of the most famous people at the time, constantly on

:14:27. > :14:32.television? Yes. How did you feel ofry time you saw him? Well, I

:14:33. > :14:37.didn't used to watch his programmes and everything. So did you stop

:14:38. > :14:41.watching Jim'll Fix It? Yes. Definitely. I can remember when our

:14:42. > :14:46.show was aired because it was quite a few months after the filming, and

:14:47. > :14:50.I can remember my nan and grandad coming round and the whole family

:14:51. > :14:57.watching it and it was just awful for me, I can remember that it was,

:14:58. > :15:00.you know, just terrible, everyone there, you know, what's supposed to

:15:01. > :15:07.be a moment us to occasion, I suppose. Yet, you know, it was

:15:08. > :15:14.horrible for me. But in later years, he was still on telly all the time

:15:15. > :15:19.and then for a while he sort of disappeared off the screens. The

:15:20. > :15:26.first time I noticed him again was, I used to watch the London Marathon

:15:27. > :15:28.and then he would appear on that. Then it obviously all starts back up

:15:29. > :15:38.again. When you finally started speaking

:15:39. > :15:49.about it, how hard was it, and what difference did it make's when I

:15:50. > :15:53.decided to... I told my wife, and as far as I was concerned, I planned it

:15:54. > :15:58.out the day before, that was going to be yet, I was going to tell my

:15:59. > :16:02.wife, and that would be the end of it. Within two or three minutes she

:16:03. > :16:08.was on the phone, reporting it to the police, so I spoke to the

:16:09. > :16:15.police. They came to see me, and once I had spoken to them, they were

:16:16. > :16:20.really nice about it, I felt I was believed, because that was always a

:16:21. > :16:30.big part, not being believed, and then I decided to speak to a

:16:31. > :16:35.newspaper, I phoned them and straightaway day of the defeat,

:16:36. > :16:40.which I thought, I discussed it with my family, who didn't want me to do

:16:41. > :16:46.it, but I decided, I'm going to do it but donate the fee to charity, so

:16:47. > :16:50.people didn't say I was doing it for money, but then I decided to go to

:16:51. > :16:57.the press myself and as soon as I have done that, it came out a couple

:16:58. > :17:03.of days later, it was really good for me. I'd describe it as being in

:17:04. > :17:08.a pressure cooker and the slow release files has been let out, and

:17:09. > :17:14.it just sort of came out from inside of me and it felt really, really

:17:15. > :17:17.good. There have of course now been several investigations and inquiries

:17:18. > :17:21.into what happened, we have the publication later of Dame Janet

:17:22. > :17:25.Smith's report, but nothing can change the fact that he got away

:17:26. > :17:34.with it in his life. How does that make you feel? I am very bitter

:17:35. > :17:41.about it, because my incident happened in 1976, subsequently when

:17:42. > :17:48.I'm finding out there are police investigations into him in the early

:17:49. > :17:53.70s and beforehand, and on the scale of how many people knew, it is a

:17:54. > :17:56.terrible thing, I should never have been put in that position, he should

:17:57. > :18:04.never have been allowed to do what he was doing, carrying on in the job

:18:05. > :18:08.that he did, putting came around children and teenagers, and young

:18:09. > :18:13.people, he should never have been allowed, so that makes me very, very

:18:14. > :18:18.bitter, and I hope someone is going to be held accountable for it. What

:18:19. > :18:28.do you hope to hear from Dame Janet Smith today? The first thing that it

:18:29. > :18:37.is never going to happen again going forward. That people are going to be

:18:38. > :18:41.held accountable. That people are going to apologise. They have all

:18:42. > :18:46.told the truth about what they knew, and when they knew about it, and I

:18:47. > :18:58.don't know, I would like to hear the reasons why they didn't tell people

:18:59. > :19:00.all report it. And just basically an apology, and then I can go forward

:19:01. > :19:04.from there. Thank you very much. We're expecting to hear

:19:05. > :19:07.from Dame Janet Smith along with the head of the BBC

:19:08. > :19:09.Trust and the BBC's Director General Tony Hall

:19:10. > :19:11.from around ten this morning. Still to come: The latest migration

:19:12. > :19:23.figures are out this morning. We'll be speaking to a farmer

:19:24. > :19:26.who says he relies on Eastern European workers

:19:27. > :19:31.to keep his business going. And a stellar night for Adele,

:19:32. > :19:36.we'll have a full round-up of all the winners and best

:19:37. > :19:57.performances at last night's One of the BBC's longest serving DJ,

:19:58. > :20:01.Radio 2 presenter Tony Blackburn, says he has been sacked following a

:20:02. > :20:05.disagreement over his evidence to an inquiry by Dame Janet Smith into

:20:06. > :20:09.sexual abuse by Jimmy Savile when he worked at the BBC. Tony Blackburn

:20:10. > :20:13.has insisted he is not guilty of any inappropriate conduct. The report

:20:14. > :20:14.into sexual abuse at the BBC is out in half an hour.

:20:15. > :20:17.The Greek Prime Minister has criticised Austria and a number

:20:18. > :20:18.of Balkan countries, for imposing new restrictions

:20:19. > :20:24.Alexis Tsipras said he wouldn't allow his country to become

:20:25. > :20:26."a permanent warehouse of souls" as people were prevented

:20:27. > :20:37.Home Secretary Theresa May will meet her EU counterparts

:20:38. > :20:47.this morning in Brussels, to discuss the migrant crisis.

:20:48. > :20:49.Adele was the big winner at last night's Brit Awards,

:20:50. > :20:52.becoming the most successful solo artist in any one year.

:20:53. > :20:54.She picked up four trophies, including best album for 25 and best

:20:55. > :20:57.The London-born singer made an emotional speech.

:20:58. > :21:00.I said it earlier but to come back, I got really lost for a while, I

:21:01. > :21:06.didn't know if I would ever come Let's catch up with

:21:07. > :21:16.all the sport now. Interesting story in football today,

:21:17. > :21:20.his manager says he needs to learn what serious pain is, pundits have

:21:21. > :21:26.said he has the heart of a pea and England cannot rely on him. After

:21:27. > :21:30.suffering knee, thigh, carved and hamstring problems, Liverpool's

:21:31. > :21:33.Daniel Sturridge has called the doubters disrespectful, despite

:21:34. > :21:37.being unavailable for half of his three years on Merseyside. To say a

:21:38. > :21:40.player doesn't want to play is the biggest disrespect you could ever

:21:41. > :21:50.say to any individual footballer, to be honest. I think it is astonishing

:21:51. > :21:52.and disappointing. You can understand why Daniel Sturridge is

:21:53. > :21:59.going through such a rigorous warm up routine. He has made only seven

:22:00. > :22:02.appearances from Liverpool this season. I'm not somebody that is

:22:03. > :22:06.sitting in the house chilling, laughing, joking going out with my

:22:07. > :22:10.friends, living life to the fore when I'm not playing. Devastated I'm

:22:11. > :22:15.at home, in my house, I'm not enjoying life,

:22:16. > :22:19.at home, in my house, I'm not not stress-free, I'm at

:22:20. > :22:21.at home, in my house, I'm not devastated, watching

:22:22. > :22:23.at home, in my house, I'm not played. Daniel Sturridge has

:22:24. > :22:26.at home, in my house, I'm not more spectating than scoring this

:22:27. > :22:29.season. All I want to do is play football, help this team have

:22:30. > :22:32.success, and that is the most important thing to me, nothing else

:22:33. > :22:34.matters. With Euro 2016 on the horizon,

:22:35. > :22:37.storage is likely With Euro 2016 on the horizon,

:22:38. > :22:39.Liverpool tonight in their uber at the league match. There have been

:22:40. > :22:44.strong the league match. There have been

:22:45. > :22:53.United side going for their second leg against FC Michelin. Van Gaal

:22:54. > :22:59.has found an interesting way to fire up his players. A lot of times I use

:23:00. > :23:05.the word horny. LAUGHTER.

:23:06. > :23:10.It is true. LAUGHTER.

:23:11. > :23:16.If your manager said that, how would you react? Like you, we react like

:23:17. > :23:22.you! And there will be full commentary on

:23:23. > :23:26.that batch from BBC radio 5 Live, and updates on Spurs.

:23:27. > :23:27.There was good news last night for Manuel Pellegrini, whose master plan

:23:28. > :23:31.There was good news last night for is working in Manchester city. They

:23:32. > :23:35.sacrificed to the FA Cup at the weekend to be at full force for

:23:36. > :23:37.their Champions League tie last night and with

:23:38. > :23:41.their Champions League tie last side thrashed by Chelsea at

:23:42. > :23:44.their Champions League tie last against Gina McKee had in Ukraine.

:23:45. > :23:50.Sergio Aguero, David Silva and Yaya Toure scoring in a 3-1 win that put

:23:51. > :23:54.them on course to reach the quarterfinals of the competition for

:23:55. > :23:57.the first time. They could be the only British club

:23:58. > :23:59.to get that far. We will see. That is all the sport

:24:00. > :24:01.for now. The DJ Tony Blackburn says he's

:24:02. > :24:04.been sacked by the BBC. He claims it's because of evidence

:24:05. > :24:07.he gave to the inquiry into the corporation's culture

:24:08. > :24:10.during the Jimmy Savile years. Dame Smith's report

:24:11. > :24:14.is published later today. Tony Blackburn is one of the BBC's

:24:15. > :24:17.best-known and most popular DJs. His was the voice that launched

:24:18. > :24:22.Radio 1 back in September 1967. Welcome to the exciting

:24:23. > :24:28.new sound of Radio 1! Our correspondent

:24:29. > :24:40.Marc Ashdown is here. What has been said about why he is

:24:41. > :24:44.gone? As he saw, Tony Blackburn had an illustrious career, 49 years at

:24:45. > :24:48.the BBC, but we are told that is over. He broke the news last night

:24:49. > :24:53.in South. He says this review today will contain details about an

:24:54. > :24:57.allegation made in 1971 that he, along with other celebrities,

:24:58. > :25:01.seduced a 15-year-old girl, Claire McAlpine. Those allegations were

:25:02. > :25:07.quickly withdrawn and I must say there was never any evidence of any

:25:08. > :25:10.improper conduct towards her by him. But it is the subsequent

:25:11. > :25:15.investigation into that by the BBC, which he claims is behind his

:25:16. > :25:28.sacking today. He says BBC records in this review today

:25:29. > :25:32.will say that he was interviewed by a BBC senior executive and senior

:25:33. > :25:35.lawyer. He says that didn't happen. He claims he has never spoken to

:25:36. > :25:38.them about this case at all, so that, he says, is why he has been

:25:39. > :25:40.sacked. The BBC will not comment until publication in about half an

:25:41. > :25:44.hour or so, 20 minutes, but of course we are expecting a rundown of

:25:45. > :25:48.who you what, when, the victim you have just spoken to about what was

:25:49. > :25:53.going on in the Jimmy Savile era, also looking into Stuart Hall, the

:25:54. > :25:56.sports commentator. The BBC director-general Tony Hall has

:25:57. > :26:01.described it as a dark chapter in the BBC's history, and the report is

:26:02. > :26:04.expected to criticise the BBC. If you expect it to draw a line under

:26:05. > :26:08.which a day, that may not happen because of this Tony Blackburn

:26:09. > :26:10.development. He says he is devastated, a scapegoat, and he is

:26:11. > :26:11.planning to sue the BBC. Kevin Marsh is a former editor

:26:12. > :26:21.of BBC Radio 4's Today programme. Obviously we are hearing the details

:26:22. > :26:26.of Tony Blackburn going. What do you think about what you are hearing? It

:26:27. > :26:30.is difficult to read because we only have the statements that Tony

:26:31. > :26:35.Blackburn has made. Clearly he felt it necessary to get his account out

:26:36. > :26:43.before the Smith report comes out, because he was found completely

:26:44. > :26:46.not... He was exonerated, no evidence against him, he is not

:26:47. > :26:51.culpable of the things that we talk about during the saddle era, so he

:26:52. > :26:56.was keen to make sure his name was not wound up with general reaction

:26:57. > :27:01.to the report -- the Savile era. But whichever way you slice this one it

:27:02. > :27:05.is not great for the BBC. Either there was no need to be with Tony

:27:06. > :27:09.Blackburn and the allegations that Claire McAlpine made were not fully

:27:10. > :27:17.investigated, or there was an investigation and, as we think Dame

:27:18. > :27:19.Janet will say, the BBC took Tony Blackburn's denials at face value

:27:20. > :27:23.when they should have been investigated further. Whether Dame

:27:24. > :27:27.Janet is right and the BBC paper trail, such a disease, is right, or

:27:28. > :27:32.Tony Blackburn is right and he says there was no interview, in this

:27:33. > :27:36.context it is not good for the BBC. How difficult will today be? Very

:27:37. > :27:43.difficult, the director-general will clearly have to repeat what he said

:27:44. > :27:48.before, that this is a dark chapter in the BBC's history, he will have

:27:49. > :27:52.to accept Dame Janet's report pretty much in full, and that'll mean

:27:53. > :27:57.accepting, if the leaks are correct, that some of culture that allowed

:27:58. > :28:01.Savile's activities to go on is still present at the BBC, a culture

:28:02. > :28:06.in which people don't feel they can go to their managers with misgivings

:28:07. > :28:10.about what the stars are doing or even just bullying. If Dame Janet

:28:11. > :28:15.really does find that that culture is still to some extent in the BBC,

:28:16. > :28:19.that will be very difficult for the director-general. A leaked copy of

:28:20. > :28:24.the report talked about a deferential culture within the BBC.

:28:25. > :28:29.How do you see that? There are lots of BBCs. The news department where I

:28:30. > :28:34.have always worked is slightly different, deference is not a

:28:35. > :28:36.characteristic of news culture. But you have to understand the

:28:37. > :28:40.entertainment side, the shiny floor shows, as we used to call them,

:28:41. > :28:46.where the success or failure of the show depends completely on quite an

:28:47. > :28:53.expensive star, normally. A channel controller or programme director,

:28:54. > :28:57.their reputation hinges on the star performing well, and so you can

:28:58. > :29:01.understand how for a junior producer who sees something, or someone who

:29:02. > :29:05.has spotted something in a green room or whatever, there is a real

:29:06. > :29:09.reluctance, there was a real reluctance to come forward. The

:29:10. > :29:13.really damning thing, if this truly is in Dame Janet's report, is that

:29:14. > :29:19.senior managers, it is claimed, were aware of some of these allegations,

:29:20. > :29:25.but kind of cut themselves away from investigating them by saying, well,

:29:26. > :29:28.there is no hard evidence. Now, that is a difficult one to defend,

:29:29. > :29:34.actually, because if you are in charge of a programme, in charge of

:29:35. > :29:38.a channel, and you are aware of the rumours, of allegations, I think the

:29:39. > :29:41.public will feel, well, isn't the manager's job to ask more questions,

:29:42. > :29:44.to step into the situation and say, what is going on here? I think that

:29:45. > :30:01.will be quite BBC. The other tough thing for

:30:02. > :30:04.the director-general will be, it is easy to change the rules, to change

:30:05. > :30:06.protocols and systems, but much harder to change a culture, and one

:30:07. > :30:09.of the issues around broadcasting at the moment is that it is a pretty

:30:10. > :30:11.insecure industry. If you are coming into the industry as a young

:30:12. > :30:14.producer, John researcher, you are never quite sure what your status

:30:15. > :30:16.is, what you are supposed to do, never quite sure that by

:30:17. > :30:20.whistle-blowing you will probably damage yourself more than reveal

:30:21. > :30:22.some wrongdoing. So changing that culture I think will be really quite

:30:23. > :30:25.difficult. Thank you very much. Coming up: Our reporter at the Brits

:30:26. > :30:28.will be here to reflect More on her awards and the rest

:30:29. > :30:37.of last night's winners. The latest official migration

:30:38. > :30:41.figures which have just been released by the Office

:30:42. > :30:44.for National Statistics, show that the difference

:30:45. > :30:47.between the numbers coming to live in the UK and those emigrating

:30:48. > :30:50.has risen to 323,000, an increase of 31,000

:30:51. > :30:53.on the previous year. The net migration of EU citizens

:30:54. > :30:56.to Britain was 172,000 in the year to September 2015, an increase

:30:57. > :31:00.of 14,000 on the previous year. Since the end of 2012,

:31:01. > :31:04.net migration has been Net migration is the key figure

:31:05. > :31:10.we look for, because the Government is aiming to bring it down

:31:11. > :31:15.to below 100,000 by 2020. Critics say that is unachievable

:31:16. > :31:20.and should be dropped. So how important are

:31:21. > :31:23.European workers to some Let's talk about this

:31:24. > :31:29.with Guy Poskitt, who runs Poskitt's Carrots in

:31:30. > :31:32.Goole in East Yorkshire. They are one of the UK's biggest

:31:33. > :31:35.carrot growers and rely on Eastern European

:31:36. > :31:43.staff to function. Thank you very much for joining us.

:31:44. > :31:48.How much do you rely on Eastern European workers? We rely on them

:31:49. > :31:53.heavily. We have a lot of local workers but have a lots of Eastern

:31:54. > :31:59.European workers as well. What proportion of your staff? In the

:32:00. > :32:04.pack house, 60-70% of workers are Eastern European. Why is that? We

:32:05. > :32:09.can't recruit enough local workers. We are a fresh produce business and

:32:10. > :32:13.demand seven-day a week availability or our customers do and with that we

:32:14. > :32:19.have to have a seven-day workforce to support the business and we can't

:32:20. > :32:22.find enough people who'll do that, pack venl vegetables on a Sunday or

:32:23. > :32:26.Bank Holiday Monday. That's why we have overseas workers. Do you

:32:27. > :32:29.advertise locally? Yes, and we advertise internally and we do

:32:30. > :32:34.recruit some good people. I will challenge anybody to come and apply

:32:35. > :32:38.and see if we can accommodate them with a job but we just can't find

:32:39. > :32:42.the people toe meet the needs of our business. We have some good ones,

:32:43. > :32:46.just not enough of them. What do you say to people who say workers like

:32:47. > :32:49.the ones you are employing take away jobs from local communities? I'll

:32:50. > :32:53.dispute that every day because we don't see that. We don't see the

:32:54. > :32:59.local communities applying for the jobs and, so come and have a go, you

:33:00. > :33:05.know, the door is open, apply and let's see if you want to turn up on

:33:06. > :33:10.a Sunday morning and pack carrots at 6am. What happened before this

:33:11. > :33:14.Eastern European migration? Well, we were in a very difficult situation

:33:15. > :33:18.in terms of recruiting staff, but also, the world's changed, we have

:33:19. > :33:22.become a seven-day a week world, we all expect availability and

:33:23. > :33:28.freshness every day. I think roll back the clock ten or 15 years, we

:33:29. > :33:31.didn't demand that, but the retailers, consumer-driven, are

:33:32. > :33:34.demanding this availability and freshness every day of the week and

:33:35. > :33:38.things have changed and we had to change our business to meet the

:33:39. > :33:44.demands. Tell us more about why you think it is that local British

:33:45. > :33:49.people will not co-the seven-day a week jobs, because presumably

:33:50. > :33:56.there's not zero unemployment there? I wish we had more of the hard

:33:57. > :34:00.workers. It's hard work, unfavourable hours, sometimes cold,

:34:01. > :34:04.and I don't know, maybe it's the Tullture, I don't really know the

:34:05. > :34:07.answer but what I do know is we can't find the numbers and any

:34:08. > :34:12.politician who challenges me on that, I'll say, tell you what, come

:34:13. > :34:16.to my factory on a Sunday morning and find them for me because I can't

:34:17. > :34:22.find them. Do you, as a local business, feel a responsibility to

:34:23. > :34:25.employ locally? Of course. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than

:34:26. > :34:30.to employ a huge amount of people out of our village. When I was a

:34:31. > :34:34.little lad, we had a lot of workers out the village but slowly they have

:34:35. > :34:37.disappeared and the only ones left are the older generation, the

:34:38. > :34:42.younger ones aren't coming forward for these type of jobs, it's not

:34:43. > :34:46.fashionable probably, probably getting jobs in bars which is more

:34:47. > :34:51.fashionable than packing carrots. What would you think about the UK

:34:52. > :34:55.leaving the European Union? I'm a big in man because I can't see the

:34:56. > :35:05.benefit to my business in lots of ways. Thank you very much.

:35:06. > :35:11.Now, liberals regard the Supreme Court's ruling on same-sex marriage

:35:12. > :35:13.as a sign of progress in the US, but many Conservatives see it as a

:35:14. > :35:20.challenge to their traditional values. As part of the BBC's divided

:35:21. > :35:22.America series, we went to Arkansas to talk to young American who is say

:35:23. > :35:47.discrimination is getting worse. They care about what their

:35:48. > :35:52.interpretation of the Bible is and they often interpret that by kicking

:35:53. > :35:57.their child out of the home. I've been pushed, hit, got things thrown

:35:58. > :36:04.at me. Arkansas is the heart of America's Bible belt where faith

:36:05. > :36:07.comes first. For many here, homosexuality is incompatible with

:36:08. > :36:10.their religious beliefs and these feelings are deep-rooted, meaning

:36:11. > :36:22.the change that has been seen and felt in other parts of America

:36:23. > :36:29.hasn't quite reached here. 21-year-old Kaylan wants to be a

:36:30. > :36:38.chef. He ran away from home several times before getting his own place

:36:39. > :36:46.in low-income housing. He came out to his mother who couldn't accept

:36:47. > :36:51.it. My mum mentioned the Bible, you know, if there's a gay person, it's

:36:52. > :36:56.a sin. How do you feel about going to church, given that shaped your

:36:57. > :37:01.mum's beliefs towards sexuality? I believe when I go to church I go to

:37:02. > :37:06.hear from the Lord so I pray before and after. I don't personally worry

:37:07. > :37:13.about people are saying. People used to tell me I was a demon and I was

:37:14. > :37:28.like, no, because I'm personally, you know, I know that's not true.

:37:29. > :37:36.Penelope run's Lucy's Place which helped Kaelon find a place to live.

:37:37. > :37:43.It's the only centre of its kind in Arkansas. We have gay marriage now

:37:44. > :37:48.and transgender people can serve in the military, so we have made all

:37:49. > :37:52.these strives and I believe what we are seeing is that adults are

:37:53. > :38:02.feeling more emboyered to come out as who they actually are, but their

:38:03. > :38:11.parents are not changing, they are the same and still believe that LGBT

:38:12. > :38:16.don't deserve to exist. There's been a generational shift in

:38:17. > :38:18.attitudes towards LGBT rights but in some parts of America, views remain

:38:19. > :38:28.deeply entrenched. Records were broken

:38:29. > :38:30.at last night's Brits. Coldplay became the most successful

:38:31. > :38:33.band in the award's history, accepting the Best British Group

:38:34. > :38:36.award - the act's ninth Brit. However, it was Adele

:38:37. > :38:38.who dominated the ceremony, getting four gongs, becoming

:38:39. > :38:41.the most successful solo act She took home Best British Single

:38:42. > :38:47.for Hello and Best British Female To come back after so long

:38:48. > :39:11.away and be so warmly received is really lovely,

:39:12. > :39:16.thank you so much. And to all the other

:39:17. > :39:19.girls that are nominated, thank you for letting me

:39:20. > :39:22.be in your company. You are all incredible,

:39:23. > :39:25.you are all amazing, and it is a privilege

:39:26. > :39:30.to be alongside you. # Is it too late

:39:31. > :39:38.to say sorry now...? I would like to just

:39:39. > :39:44.thank my family, my Just for being here

:39:45. > :39:48.with me tonight and Thank you so much everybody

:39:49. > :40:04.and thanks for being so

:40:05. > :40:06.nice to us when we played. And we would like to thank

:40:07. > :40:12.the other bands, Blur - the first album I ever bought,

:40:13. > :40:15.Leisure, by Blur, in 1991. On the 10th of January this year,

:40:16. > :40:19.the world was stunned and shaken by the news that David Bowie had

:40:20. > :41:07.suddenly passed away. The President of America played a

:41:08. > :41:11.part in the tribute to Ray Charles. President Obama said he had two

:41:12. > :41:14.things that got him through, a strong mother and music. The

:41:15. > :41:23.President then made a promise to his audience. I will not be singing. But

:41:24. > :41:28.for our last one, it is fitting that we pay tribute to one of our

:41:29. > :41:33.favourites. And one of the most brilliant, influential musicians of

:41:34. > :41:53.our times, the late great genius himself, Mr Ray Charles.

:41:54. > :42:11.# Hey, ho, hey, ho... # Baby it's all right

:42:12. > :42:15.# It's all right # Thank you, everybody, hope you had a

:42:16. > :42:19.great time. Still to come: Live coverage of Dame

:42:20. > :42:24.Janet Smith's inquiry into how failures at the BBC allowed Savile

:42:25. > :42:29.to carry out abuse for so long while working at the Corporation. Let's

:42:30. > :42:35.get a weather update with Carol. Good morning. Good morning to you.

:42:36. > :42:39.It's been a cold start today. We have had widespread frosts,

:42:40. > :42:43.temperatures in Shap fell to minus 8, the lowest in the land. Beautiful

:42:44. > :42:47.pictures sent in by our weather-watchers.

:42:48. > :42:51.Frosty but sunny starts to the day in Cumbria. We have been watching a

:42:52. > :42:54.band of rain and cloud moving into the south-eastern corner, that's

:42:55. > :42:58.more or lease cleared now but there's a lot more cloud coming in

:42:59. > :43:03.across the west than we originally thought. For many parts of the UK,

:43:04. > :43:07.it will be dry and fine with one or two showers. Snowing at the moment

:43:08. > :43:12.across the north-east of Scotland in Shetland. It will ease off in the

:43:13. > :43:16.north-east of Scotland but continue for much of the day in Shetland. For

:43:17. > :43:21.south-west England, more cloud coming in, it's not going to be

:43:22. > :43:25.wall-to-wall blue skies but still there'll be some brighter breaks

:43:26. > :43:28.across Wales. A bit more cloud and that cloud thick enough here and

:43:29. > :43:31.there for the odd shower. Into Northern Ireland after this

:43:32. > :43:35.morning's showers drying up, some bright spells but quite a bit of

:43:36. > :43:38.cloud at times as there will be across Scotland. We hang on to the

:43:39. > :43:43.snow falling across Shetland. Again, if you are in the sunshine in the

:43:44. > :43:46.east, it will feel quite pleasant. North-west England also seeing a wee

:43:47. > :43:51.bit more cloud, the north-east seeing some brighter skies. The

:43:52. > :43:55.Midlands, variable amounts of cloud, down into Kent, a similar story,

:43:56. > :43:59.bright spells or sunshine and that prevails all the way down towards

:44:00. > :44:06.Hampshire. Through the evening, temperatures will drop quickly under

:44:07. > :44:11.any clear skies and once again, it's a widespread frost. In the

:44:12. > :44:14.south-west, in through Wales and also up towards Northern Ireland,

:44:15. > :44:17.you can see temperatures are going to stay above freezing because we

:44:18. > :44:22.have got a bit more cloud around and also some showers.

:44:23. > :44:26.Tomorrow, again where we have the clear skies, we'll have sunshine

:44:27. > :44:29.from the word go. A few more scattered showers in southern

:44:30. > :44:34.counties than today and this band of rain coming across the Isles of

:44:35. > :44:37.Scilly and Cornwall just edging into southern parts of Northern Ireland.

:44:38. > :44:41.We could see a bit of snow on the hills associated with this. It's an

:44:42. > :44:46.area of low pressure and, as we head on through Friday into Saturday, we

:44:47. > :44:50.can see how it starts to pull away, taking the occlusion wrapped around

:44:51. > :44:54.it with it. The direction of the wind will change. The wind starts to

:44:55. > :44:58.come from a cold continent from the east, and that will have an adverse

:44:59. > :45:02.impact on the temperatures across southern parts of England and also

:45:03. > :45:05.Wales, so despite the fact there'll be some sunshine, it's going to feel

:45:06. > :45:09.cold. The temperatures you can see here on the chart, six to eight, are

:45:10. > :45:15.probably a bit optimistic anyway, then when you add on the wind chill,

:45:16. > :45:20.it will feel colder. As we move north, we are back in the sunshine.

:45:21. > :45:24.Parts of Scotland, cloudy in the north and also Northern Ireland,

:45:25. > :45:28.temperatures lower but the winds are lighter so it won't feel as bad.

:45:29. > :45:32.Into Sunday, again a lot of dry weather around. It will be a frosty

:45:33. > :45:36.start, so a cold one obviously. With the lighter winds, it will feel that

:45:37. > :45:39.bit better and there'll be quite a bit of sunshine around too. In

:45:40. > :45:43.summary for the weekend, if you have outdoor plans, not too bad. It will

:45:44. > :45:45.stay cold with bitter winds, especially in the southern half of

:45:46. > :45:48.the country, but mostly dry. Hello, welcome to the programme

:45:49. > :45:54.if you've just joined us. A culture of fear that prevented

:45:55. > :46:00.staff reporting abuse, a macho environment and young

:46:01. > :46:03.girls in moral danger. Just some findings of

:46:04. > :46:07.Dame Janet Smith's review of how Jimmy Savile was able to carry out

:46:08. > :46:25.abuse with apparent impunity One of Jimmy Savile's victims has

:46:26. > :46:27.been speaking exclusively to us about the abuse he suffered at the

:46:28. > :46:29.hands of the Jimmy Savile. It was easier for me to know

:46:30. > :46:31.that there were others They were mainly female and then

:46:32. > :46:36.another male had come forward, and it was such a relief for me,

:46:37. > :46:40.because for 35 years inside of me, it's all bottled up, thinking,

:46:41. > :46:54.why me, what have I done? You know, I must

:46:55. > :46:56.have done something. And all of a sudden,

:46:57. > :46:58.I know I'm not to blame. The radio DJ Tony Blackburn says

:46:59. > :47:01.he's been sacked by the BBC. He claims he's been dismissed over

:47:02. > :47:08.evidence he gave to an inquiry We will bring you the reports

:47:09. > :47:28.findings live. The report on sexual abuse by Jimmy

:47:29. > :47:32.Savile when he worked at the BBC has just been published. The review by

:47:33. > :47:37.Dame Janet Smith says 21 people were also assaulted by the broadcaster

:47:38. > :47:39.Stuart Hall at the BBC. The review found the

:47:40. > :47:42.Stuart Hall at the BBC. The review with a match our environment and

:47:43. > :47:49.culture of fear which prevented staff reporting abuse. One of the

:47:50. > :47:52.BBC's longest serving the case -- DJs, Radio 2's Tony Blackburn, says

:47:53. > :48:00.he has been sacked over a disagreement into his evidence into

:48:01. > :48:01.the inquiry. Tony Blackburn has insisted he is not guilty of any

:48:02. > :48:15.inappropriate conduct. 'Keep your mouth shut,

:48:16. > :48:21.he's a VIP.' That's what a BBC staff

:48:22. > :48:24.member was told on being made aware That's been disclosed

:48:25. > :48:28.in a report just out. Savile is revealed in

:48:29. > :48:30.the Dame Janet Smith review to have committed abuse over nearly half

:48:31. > :48:44.a century of his BBC career. And the inquiry finds that the BBC

:48:45. > :48:47.was infused with a macho environment,

:48:48. > :48:51.along with a culture that made it That meant, it says,

:48:52. > :48:54.that young girls coming to the BBC

:48:55. > :48:56.for TV shows could have with no real concern for the welfare

:48:57. > :48:59.of its young audience. It says the atmosphere

:49:00. > :49:01.of fear still exists today, and the evidence makes 'sorry

:49:02. > :49:04.reading' for the broadcaster. It's now time, says Dame Janet,

:49:05. > :49:07.for the BBC to demonstrate that it takes the criticism seriously

:49:08. > :49:09.and is making changes. She says it's possible that a child

:49:10. > :49:11.abuser could be lurking Our correspondent Nick Higham

:49:12. > :49:17.has seen the report - Tell us, what is in it.

:49:18. > :49:26.It is a substantial and have the report, two reports, Dame Janet

:49:27. > :49:29.Smith's report into Jimmy Savile's behaviour at the BBC, and also an

:49:30. > :49:36.investigation into Stuart Hall and his time at the BBC, and what, if

:49:37. > :49:40.anything, the BBC knew about Paul's activities and about Jimmy Savile's

:49:41. > :49:45.activities. I will hand this to a colleague to get rid of it. It is,

:49:46. > :49:48.as you said in the introduction, it damaging report for the BBC because

:49:49. > :49:56.it suggests a widespread Nacho culture, a culture of lab dish

:49:57. > :50:01.activity, of sexual harassment, and it suggests the BBC was not aware at

:50:02. > :50:06.the highest level of the allegations against Jimmy Savile -- eight Nacho

:50:07. > :50:12.culture. The report details at least eight occasions when people

:50:13. > :50:16.complained about Savile's behaviour to BBC staff and on each of those

:50:17. > :50:21.occasions it seems the staff concerned, relatively junior, did

:50:22. > :50:24.not refer up, and so the BBC, corporately, Dame Janet says, at

:50:25. > :50:29.head of department level, were not aware of what was going on. Slightly

:50:30. > :50:33.different situation in the case of Stuart Hall, a of debates, a great

:50:34. > :50:38.deal of rumour and gossip, and the hedge of regional television in the

:50:39. > :50:42.north-west, in Manchester, Ray Colley, Dame Linda Dobbs, who

:50:43. > :50:46.conducted that report into Stuart Hall, believes he did know, because

:50:47. > :50:52.he questioned Stuart Hall about what was going on, but he did not monitor

:50:53. > :50:58.whether Hall modified his behaviour as he had been advised to do. In

:50:59. > :51:02.that, she thinks Ray Colley failed. Let me talk about the Tony Blackburn

:51:03. > :51:05.business. He says, as you reported in your introduction, that he has

:51:06. > :51:11.been sacked by the BBC with immediate effect. He says that is

:51:12. > :51:16.not because of any misconduct on his part but because his version of

:51:17. > :51:21.events back in 1971 doesn't tally with the BBC's, and he says he is

:51:22. > :51:27.not guilty of any inappropriate conduct, and he says he is suing the

:51:28. > :51:31.BBC. What happened in 1971? A woman called Claire McAlpine, who was 15,

:51:32. > :51:36.went to Top Of The Pops on a number of occasions. Her mother rang the

:51:37. > :51:41.BBC to complain she had been seduced by a celebrity, taken back to his

:51:42. > :51:47.flat, even though she was underage, and she later killed herself, and it

:51:48. > :51:51.was widely reported at the time, the News of the World and elsewhere.

:51:52. > :51:54.Dame Janet says that Bill Cotton, then the head of light entertainment

:51:55. > :51:59.at the BBC, questioned Tony Blackburn about this, because Claire

:52:00. > :52:03.McAlpine's mother named him as a celebrity in question. He denied it,

:52:04. > :52:09.he was later interviewed by a man called Brian Neill QC, conducting a

:52:10. > :52:19.separate inquiry into allegations of paying DJs to play records, and was

:52:20. > :52:22.told the girl was a fantasist, that there was no basis and Brian Neill

:52:23. > :52:27.thought the allegation was an invention. The problem arises with

:52:28. > :52:32.Dame Janet's investigation into this, she says Tony Blackburn told

:52:33. > :52:36.her in 2013 that he had never met Claire McAlpine, which contradicts

:52:37. > :52:40.what he told Brian Neill many years ago, and he also told Dame Janet

:52:41. > :52:46.that he had never been interviewed by Bill Cotton, Dame Janet says the

:52:47. > :52:54.documents suggest that he was. In terms of the culture, which is

:52:55. > :53:01.being discussed, which enabled Jimmy Savile to get away with it, Dame

:53:02. > :53:04.Janet says it could be the case that things could potentially still be

:53:05. > :53:10.going on, that things haven't necessarily changed?

:53:11. > :53:13.She says the culture has changed, that the BBC, like many

:53:14. > :53:18.organisations, is much more alert to allegations of sexual misconduct,

:53:19. > :53:22.more aware of the protection of children, the importance of making

:53:23. > :53:26.sure that underage people and young adults are properly treated, it says

:53:27. > :53:32.it has a whistle-blowing policy in place which makes it much easier, in

:53:33. > :53:36.theory, for people who have concerns, staff who have concerns,

:53:37. > :53:40.have complaints, to raise them with the hierarchy, so in that sense she

:53:41. > :53:44.says things have changed that the BBC. As indeed they have changed in

:53:45. > :53:49.society at large. One of her criticisms of the BBC back in the

:53:50. > :53:51.70s and 80s was it seemed more concerned about protecting its own

:53:52. > :53:56.reputation than protecting young people coming to Top Of The Pops or

:53:57. > :54:03.taking part in shows like Jim'll Fix It. What she say she cannot

:54:04. > :54:06.guarantee is that there are not people, paedophiles, in the BBC at

:54:07. > :54:10.the moment, and in some cases I think she suggests that however many

:54:11. > :54:14.whistle-blowing policies you have in place, however good your procedures,

:54:15. > :54:20.of course it is still not easy for people in any organisation to raise

:54:21. > :54:25.concerns with superiors, there is always an element of risk involved,

:54:26. > :54:28.and she thinks that, particularly at the BBC, where lots of people work

:54:29. > :54:32.as freelancers and on short-term contracts, a lot of people may be

:54:33. > :54:35.inhibited about raising concerns because they fear for their jobs and

:54:36. > :54:39.careers. Thank you. We are awaiting the live

:54:40. > :54:43.presentation of the report by Dame Janet Smith. Earlier I spoke to one

:54:44. > :54:47.of Jimmy Savile's victims, Kevin Cook, who says he was sexually

:54:48. > :54:49.abused by Jimmy Savile when he was ninth after his Cub Scout group

:54:50. > :55:07.appeared on Jim'll Fix It. He has waived his right to anonymity

:55:08. > :55:09.to speak to us. Kevin said he initially thought what had happened

:55:10. > :55:12.to him had been a one-off until stories appeared in the papers four

:55:13. > :55:15.years ago about the scale of Jimmy Savile's abuse. He told be what

:55:16. > :55:17.happened to him on that day in 1976 on Jim'll Fix It.

:55:18. > :55:20.When we were split up, most of the Cubs went in the studio audience to

:55:21. > :55:23.watch, I was -- eight were picked out to do the main TV programme bit,

:55:24. > :55:36.we had all done eight brands Hatch race previously. We were all on the

:55:37. > :55:43.stage, a Top Of The Pops, to Film4 that, and I was told we would get

:55:44. > :55:46.one big badge -- to film for that. I was disappointed because I thought

:55:47. > :55:51.we would all get an individual batch. Then I was asked if I would

:55:52. > :55:57.like my own one, which of course I jumped out. He asked you that

:55:58. > :56:01.directly? Yes, that was my first proper conversation with him. I met

:56:02. > :56:06.him and we had just been mingling around him but that was the first

:56:07. > :56:11.proper conversation I had with him. And he was a huge star at that time,

:56:12. > :56:18.one of the biggest shows on TV. How did you see him? He was almost

:56:19. > :56:22.godlike, one of the biggest stars, everybody I know wrote to be on the

:56:23. > :56:27.programme, my friends, everybody couldn't believe when I was going on

:56:28. > :56:39.there, school friends, suddenly I became Mr popular. Everyone wanted

:56:40. > :56:44.to be my friend because of that. He was just the man at the time. And

:56:45. > :56:47.suddenly you had an opportunity to get your own individual Jim'll Fix

:56:48. > :56:55.It medal, when everybody else was having to share one. What happened?

:56:56. > :57:00.He said he would get one, but you had to go with him in order to get

:57:01. > :57:04.it? He came back to me, approached me on the stage after the filming,

:57:05. > :57:09.when we were all on the stage, and asked me if I would like to go and

:57:10. > :57:18.get my badge. I said yes, I was led off the stage, walked off with him

:57:19. > :57:24.through some doors then off into a so-called dressing room. After that,

:57:25. > :57:32.what do you remember? We went into the room, he closed the door behind

:57:33. > :57:41.him, a little dark, dingy room, not like his dressing room would be. It

:57:42. > :57:44.was almost, I described it as a cleaning cupboard, horrible little

:57:45. > :57:53.room, small desk, vanity mirror on top of a wardrobe. Then he just

:57:54. > :57:59.pulled out the chair towards the middle of the room, told me to sit

:58:00. > :58:08.down and stood in front of me, and then that is when it took place.

:58:09. > :58:18.What was going through your mind? It was hard to say. He started to touch

:58:19. > :58:29.my leg at first, and I'm thinking, what is happening? What is actually

:58:30. > :58:33.going on? You can't describe it. You know it is wrong, but it was almost

:58:34. > :58:42.as if I couldn't say anything, and then it carried on from there, and

:58:43. > :58:49.it was just awful. How long were you alone with him? Probably a couple of

:58:50. > :59:00.minutes. It wasn't long that all, probably a few minutes of the most.

:59:01. > :59:06.Did he speak? Yes, he was just sort of talking, saying, you will be OK,

:59:07. > :59:13.just, you are fine, that was all he was saying, until the end of it, and

:59:14. > :59:19.that is when he spoke more. What did he say then? When it was finished,

:59:20. > :59:24.he issued some threats to me, he told me, don't you dare tell

:59:25. > :59:33.anybody, no one will believe you, I'm king Jimmy and we know where you

:59:34. > :59:43.live. Which still horrifies me to this day. And it did intimate date

:59:44. > :59:47.you into silence? Yes, definitely. Kevin Cook, who was abused by Jimmy

:59:48. > :59:51.Savile when he was nine. We are still awaiting the start of

:59:52. > :59:56.the news conference by Dame Janet Smith outlining her findings into

:59:57. > :00:02.the inquiry into Jimmy Savile and those years that the BBC when he

:00:03. > :00:06.carried out abuse. Let's go back to our correspondent Nick Kiam, who has

:00:07. > :00:13.seen the report. Bring us up to date with the main headlines out of the

:00:14. > :00:18.report. The main headlights are that Jimmy

:00:19. > :00:21.Savile sexually harassed or had inappropriate sexual activity with a

:00:22. > :00:25.large number of people, mainly teenage girls but including some

:00:26. > :00:30.children, both male and female, and adult women, either on BBC premises

:00:31. > :00:34.or as a result of his BBC activities, over very long period

:00:35. > :00:42.from the 1960s right through until 2006. She found that there were a

:00:43. > :00:47.number of complaints made relatively junior staff, mainly in the 1970s,

:00:48. > :00:51.that these were discounted, they weren't followed up, word referred

:00:52. > :00:54.up. In some cases the women and girls have made the complaints were

:00:55. > :00:59.seen as a nuisance, others were told, it is just a bit of fun. In

:01:00. > :01:04.one case someone was told not to make a complaint because Jimmy

:01:05. > :01:07.Savile was a VIP, he was the talent, and there were fears by BBC staff

:01:08. > :01:13.that if they complained they wouldn't be believed. The BBC

:01:14. > :01:21.corporately, therefore, is cleared of failing to act, but Dame Janet

:01:22. > :01:25.suggests that if there had been more communication, if that had been more

:01:26. > :01:30.willing on the part of staff to refer upwards, then Jimmy Savile's

:01:31. > :01:34.activities might have become more widely known and something might

:01:35. > :01:37.have been done about it, she talks of lost opportunities. She also said

:01:38. > :01:41.at the time there was a widespread culture which the BBC was a part of

:01:42. > :01:44.in which sexual harassment and the protection of children were not

:01:45. > :01:54.given the sort priority they are given to date there was a general

:01:55. > :01:58.macho laddish culture, especially in the entertainment section where

:01:59. > :02:02.Jimmy Savile worked, and there is a report conducted separately by Dame

:02:03. > :02:08.Linda Dobbs into what the BBC knew about Stuart Hall up in Manchester,

:02:09. > :02:12.and that report finds that many BBC staff working with Hall were aware

:02:13. > :02:16.he was engaging in sexual conduct on the premises, they were not aware

:02:17. > :02:20.that some of that was with underage girls will stop he was warned by a

:02:21. > :02:25.senior manager about his sexual conduct, but the manager in question

:02:26. > :02:32.took no positive steps to ensure that Hall, as it were, behaved

:02:33. > :02:37.properly in future, there is no evidence that anything else was done

:02:38. > :02:43.about Hall, and Dame Linda Dobbs, who compiled that report, says there

:02:44. > :02:47.is an absence of vigilance on the part of BBC management. I understand

:02:48. > :02:51.Dame Janet Smith is about to start her press conference, so let's see

:02:52. > :03:03.what she has to say, she is of course a Court of Appeal judge.

:03:04. > :03:14.Savile and Stuart Hall were serial sexual predators. Savile buzz a

:03:15. > :03:21.danger to young people, both boys and girls, opportunistic and

:03:22. > :03:29.shameless. I have identified 72 BBC victims of Savile, of whom 34 were

:03:30. > :03:36.under the age of 16. His youngest victim was aged eight. His abuse

:03:37. > :03:45.included eight cases of rape, the youngest victim being only ten years

:03:46. > :03:50.old. Stuart Hall targeted and groomed young girls, often plying

:03:51. > :03:56.them with alcohol. Dame Linda identified 21 victims of abuse, of

:03:57. > :04:04.whom eight were girls under the age of 16, the youngest was ten.

:04:05. > :04:13.Both of these men used their fame and positions as BBC celebrities to

:04:14. > :04:18.abuse the vulnerable. They must be condemned for their monstrous

:04:19. > :04:23.behaviour. But the culture of the BBC certainly enabled both Savile

:04:24. > :04:31.and Stuart Hall to go undetected for decades. I have identified five

:04:32. > :04:35.occasions when the BBC missed an opportunity to uncover their

:04:36. > :04:40.misconduct. I want to leave ample time for questions, so I intend in

:04:41. > :04:46.these opening remarks to address only three central matters; these

:04:47. > :04:50.are the complicit effect of BBC culture, the question of who at the

:04:51. > :04:57.BBC could have done something to stop Savile and Stuart Hall and

:04:58. > :05:02.finally, I want to speak to and about the victims. Before that, I

:05:03. > :05:09.want to deal head-on with criticisms that have arisen in recent weeks.

:05:10. > :05:14.First, at no point has the BBC ever sought to influence the review,

:05:15. > :05:19.either as to the content of my report or as to the date of

:05:20. > :05:25.publication. If it had, I would have paid no heed. Second, the delay

:05:26. > :05:30.following the completion of the report in April 2015, was due solely

:05:31. > :05:35.to the concerns expressed by the Metropolitan Police who feared the

:05:36. > :05:40.publication might prejudice their ongoing investigations. There was no

:05:41. > :05:45.other reason. I come to the first of my three main

:05:46. > :05:52.points. The features of the culture of the BBC which enabled Savile and

:05:53. > :06:00.Stuart Hall to hide for decades, and for which I must criticise the BBC.

:06:01. > :06:07.There was a culture of not complaining or of raising concerns.

:06:08. > :06:13.BBC staff felt and were sometimes told that it was not in their best

:06:14. > :06:18.interests to pursue a complaint. Loyalty too and pride in a programme

:06:19. > :06:26.could hinder the sharing of concerns. There was a reluctance to

:06:27. > :06:31.rock the boat. The management structure at the BBC

:06:32. > :06:35.was not only hierarchical but deeply deferencetial. Staff were reluctant

:06:36. > :06:43.to speak tout to managers because they felt it was not their place to

:06:44. > :06:46.do so. Also, there was a culture of separation, competition and even

:06:47. > :06:50.hostility between different parts of the BBC, so that concerns arising in

:06:51. > :06:59.one part would not be discussed with others. There was also a macho

:07:00. > :07:02.culture in particular in Radio 1 and light entertainment. There were very

:07:03. > :07:08.few women in management positions, women found it difficult to report

:07:09. > :07:12.sexual harassment. All the problems of reporting were

:07:13. > :07:18.compounded in the case of the talent. Celebrities were treated

:07:19. > :07:24.with kit gloves and were virtually untouchable. One witness told me

:07:25. > :07:31.that the talent were more valuable to the BBC than their own values. If

:07:32. > :07:35.these cultural factors had not existed, there would have been a

:07:36. > :07:41.real chance of Savile and Stuart Hall being discovered. I do

:07:42. > :07:46.recognise that many of these factors were common in the British work

:07:47. > :07:54.place and some still are. But these are all matters which the BBC must

:07:55. > :07:59.now address. Most important of all, in the 1970s, 80s and 90s, child

:08:00. > :08:07.protection was very low on the BBC's radar. In this, the BBC was far from

:08:08. > :08:13.alone. At that time, our society did not recognise the prevalence of the

:08:14. > :08:17.sexual abuse of children, complaints were disbelieved and therefore

:08:18. > :08:23.rarely made, we were not sufficiently shocked by the signs of

:08:24. > :08:28.older men being sexually involved with teenage girls and we were

:08:29. > :08:33.unaware of the damage which such unequal relations can cause.

:08:34. > :08:42.Sexual harassment was not taken seriously. The BBC's attitude to

:08:43. > :08:46.child protection might have been understandable but for one

:08:47. > :08:54.exceptional factor. This makes it deeply disturbing.

:08:55. > :08:58.This related to Top of the Pops. In 1971, there were allegations in

:08:59. > :09:03.the press about young girls being picked up for sexual purposes on Top

:09:04. > :09:09.of the Pops. And pornographic pictures being taken after the show.

:09:10. > :09:21.There were also press allegations of corruption. The reaction of the BBC

:09:22. > :09:25.is illuminating. It investigated the allegation thoroughly, but not the

:09:26. > :09:32.allegations about the young girls with anything like the same focus.

:09:33. > :09:36.It was plainly concerned about its reputation but was not concerned to

:09:37. > :09:40.the same degree about what should have been a wake-up call that there

:09:41. > :09:45.were young girls who might be exposed to moral danger on Top of

:09:46. > :09:52.the Pops. The BBC seemed to regard the young

:09:53. > :10:00.audiences as necessary but a nuisance. One note of a management

:10:01. > :10:05.meeting describes the girls as "unbalanced". There was no sense

:10:06. > :10:09.that they were young and in need of protection.

:10:10. > :10:14.So, when complaints were made about Savile, by two teenage girls who

:10:15. > :10:18.were assaulted on Top of the Pops, their complaints were not recorded

:10:19. > :10:23.or passed upwards to management as they should have been.

:10:24. > :10:29.Instead, they were brushed aside. One girl was told to "move out of

:10:30. > :10:35.the way of the camera" and the other was ejected from the building and

:10:36. > :10:42.left on the street. The failure to heed these complaints

:10:43. > :10:47.about Savile amounted to two missed opportunities to detect and stop

:10:48. > :10:51.him. I cannot say that proper investigation of those complaints

:10:52. > :10:57.would have resulted in prosecution, but the BBC would at least have

:10:58. > :11:02.become aware of Savile's nature. I turn to my next main point. Who at

:11:03. > :11:09.the BBC could have done something about Jimmy Savile and Stuart Hall?

:11:10. > :11:16.In respect of Savile, there were three individuals. The first was Ted

:11:17. > :11:21.Beston, Savile's BBC Radio One producer. On one occasion, he was

:11:22. > :11:27.prepared to act as a provider of a young woman to Savile for sex. I

:11:28. > :11:33.found that he knew that Savile would have casual sex with teenage girls

:11:34. > :11:37.as and when he could get it, although he denied it, I'm satisfied

:11:38. > :11:42.Mr Beston must have realised from their appearance that some of the

:11:43. > :11:47.girls might well be under age. He admired Savile and I do not think

:11:48. > :11:54.it ever crossed his mind that he should report him. But he should

:11:55. > :12:00.have done. The second was cannon Colin S empar,

:12:01. > :12:06.a producer in the religious broadcasting department and worked

:12:07. > :12:08.closely with Savile -- Sempar. With commendable honesty when giving

:12:09. > :12:15.evidence to the review, he accepted that he had come to think that

:12:16. > :12:18.Savile had casual sex with a lot of girls, some of whom might have been

:12:19. > :12:22.under age. He did not discuss what he knew with his managers because he

:12:23. > :12:28.thought that they already knew about Savile and did not seem to be

:12:29. > :12:34.concerned about it. In my view, he should have discussed his concerns

:12:35. > :12:43.with his line manager. I think he now deeply regrets that he did not.

:12:44. > :12:51.The third is Douglas Mugrovich, the controller of Radio 1 and 2 in the

:12:52. > :12:55.early '70s. He died many years ago. In 1973, he heard rumours about

:12:56. > :13:00.Savile's sexual activities and prompted some inquiries. Savile was

:13:01. > :13:06.asked about the rumours and denied them.

:13:07. > :13:11.I think Mr Mugrovich generally believed the rumours to be untrue.

:13:12. > :13:14.However, in my view, he should have retained his concerns, should have

:13:15. > :13:20.shared them with colleagues and had a watch kept on Savile.

:13:21. > :13:27.Had he done so, Savile might well have been uncovered in the 1970s.

:13:28. > :13:32.This was a third missed opportunity. Although I have found that none of

:13:33. > :13:38.Savile's senior managers in television were aware of his sexual

:13:39. > :13:44.misconduct, I do criticise them in another important respect. By 1983,

:13:45. > :13:49.there was a good deal of material in the public domain which showed

:13:50. > :13:57.Savile in a very bad light. Wlaefr the truth about him, this material

:13:58. > :14:02.showed Savile boasting of past associations with violent criminals

:14:03. > :14:06.and proud to be described as having a prolific casual sex life with

:14:07. > :14:11.young women many decades younger than himself.

:14:12. > :14:16.It is amazing that it never occurred to Savile's managers at the BBC that

:14:17. > :14:22.on account of this, they should not give him a platform to promote his

:14:23. > :14:26.image as a good man. It is amazing that it never occurred

:14:27. > :14:32.to them that Savile was not a suitable role model for the young

:14:33. > :14:36.audiences of Jim'll Fix It. In Manchester, there were two

:14:37. > :14:44.individuals who could have done something to stop Stuart Hall.

:14:45. > :14:50.Raymond Collie and Tom German. Raymond Collie was the regional

:14:51. > :14:56.television manager in Manchester from 1970 until 1986. Dame Linda

:14:57. > :15:00.found that when Collie took up his post, he challenged Hall about

:15:01. > :15:04.rumours he was having sex with women in his dressing room. These rumours

:15:05. > :15:09.did not suggest that these were under-age girls. Mr Collie warned

:15:10. > :15:13.Stuart Hall as to his future conduct.

:15:14. > :15:23.But he did not follow up his warning. He assumed that Stuart Hall

:15:24. > :15:28.would desist. He overestimated his own authority and underestimated

:15:29. > :15:32.Stuart Hall's duplicity. Had Mr Collie kept a watch on Hall, it's

:15:33. > :15:37.likely that he would have been stopped. This was the first missed

:15:38. > :15:42.opportunity in respect of Stuart Hall, the fourth overall.

:15:43. > :15:50.Mr German was the news editor in Manchester in the 1970s and 80s. He

:15:51. > :15:55.is dead. Dame Linda has concluded that he was probably aware that

:15:56. > :15:59.Stuart Hall was involved in inappropriate sexual conduct on BBC

:16:00. > :16:05.premises. If people's, it seems to me that he should have shared his

:16:06. > :16:13.concerns with Mr Colley. He did not do so, and this may well have been

:16:14. > :16:19.the fifth missed opportunity. This report makes sorry reading for the

:16:20. > :16:26.BBC. Dame Linda and I have found disturbing things and have not

:16:27. > :16:31.hesitated to expose them. From a conversation I had with Lord Paul on

:16:32. > :16:37.Tuesday after he read my report, I'm satisfied that he entirely accepts

:16:38. > :16:41.that there is much work ahead for him, the BBC trust, and the

:16:42. > :16:46.executive board if the BBC is to regain the confidence of the public

:16:47. > :16:54.in respect of its culture and its child protection practices. I wish

:16:55. > :16:58.now to speak about the victims. I must record might annoyance at the

:16:59. > :17:03.complete disregard for their welfare shown by a website that chose to

:17:04. > :17:08.publish part of an early draft of my report. This unexpected and

:17:09. > :17:11.selective publication was highly distressing for them and had no

:17:12. > :17:16.public interest justification whatsoever. I want to thank every

:17:17. > :17:26.witness who gave evidence to me and to Dame Linda, but above all I want

:17:27. > :17:33.to send a personal message to the victims of and Stuart Hall, many of

:17:34. > :17:37.will be listening. -- victims of saddle. Thank you for your

:17:38. > :17:42.contributions and your courage. Some of you have told me and Dame Linda

:17:43. > :17:49.that you blame yourselves for what happened, and for not reporting it

:17:50. > :17:56.at the time. You are not to blame. And your reasons for not reporting

:17:57. > :18:01.are wholly understandable. I know that it was very difficult for you

:18:02. > :18:04.to speak to the review. You did so in order to help us understand what

:18:05. > :18:13.had happened, and why it had not been discovered. Society owes you a

:18:14. > :18:18.great debt. Your legacy is that you have helped to convince us all of

:18:19. > :18:24.the importance of ensuring that young and vulnerable people have the

:18:25. > :18:30.confidence to report abuse, and that when they do so their voices will be

:18:31. > :18:37.heard, and treated with the same respect as those who hold power in

:18:38. > :18:38.our society. I think that is a legacy of which you can be

:18:39. > :19:00.justifiably proud. Thank you. I'm going to take questions now.

:19:01. > :19:04.Wait a moment. We have two microphones, please wait until you

:19:05. > :19:11.get one. Otherwise I will not be able to hear you. I will try and

:19:12. > :19:16.organise one question ahead, so I will choose two now and try to keep

:19:17. > :19:22.one head at the same time. When you start, please give your name and the

:19:23. > :19:26.organisation that you represent, because I don't think I know any of

:19:27. > :19:35.you at all. The lady there who had her hand at first. And then, why not

:19:36. > :19:42.the man next to her? Thank you very much, Lucy Manning from BBC News.

:19:43. > :19:47.You say in your report that 117 people at the BBC heard rumours or

:19:48. > :19:52.stories about Jimmy Savile's sexual conduct, including some senior

:19:53. > :19:57.people, yet you say that no senior managers knew what Savile was up to.

:19:58. > :20:05.Isn't this, as some of the victims think, a whitewash? It certainly

:20:06. > :20:08.isn't a whitewash. It is right that 100 and teen witnesses told the

:20:09. > :20:15.review that they had heard rumours about Jimmy Savile -- 117. As a

:20:16. > :20:21.matter of fact, 180 witnesses, rather more than 117, told me that

:20:22. > :20:27.they had not. But, you see, I did find that a number of people at the

:20:28. > :20:33.BBC, junior people, it did know about Savile, either they knew from

:20:34. > :20:35.what they saw or they've realised and drew influences in their own

:20:36. > :20:42.minds and realised what he was doing. They didn't report these

:20:43. > :20:47.matters upwards, and that I attributed to the culture of the

:20:48. > :20:51.BBC. I found that two people at producer level also knew, and I have

:20:52. > :20:58.mentioned their names in my opening remarks. They didn't report upwards

:20:59. > :21:07.either. I don't think that the fact that a producer you about Savile

:21:08. > :21:18.means that the BBC as a corporate body knew. I had to make a judgment

:21:19. > :21:23.about what level of BBC management can be equated with the BBC as an

:21:24. > :21:28.organisation, and I came to the conclusion, as I explain in my

:21:29. > :21:33.report, that that level should be pitched at head of Department level.

:21:34. > :21:36.I did consider whether it should be pitched at producer level, and I

:21:37. > :21:42.came to the conclusion that it should not for reasons that I

:21:43. > :21:47.explained. To go back to the rumours, I'm a judge, or I was, and

:21:48. > :21:50.I still think like a judge, and I have to reach conclusions based on

:21:51. > :21:59.evidence that I hear. Rumour is not evidence. I have to have evidence...

:22:00. > :22:02.Somebody switch their phone off. I have to have evidence, either direct

:22:03. > :22:07.evidence or circumstantial evidence from which I can sensibly and

:22:08. > :22:13.properly draw an inference. I can't do that from rumours. True, there

:22:14. > :22:20.were lots of people who heard rumours. Many of them heard rumours

:22:21. > :22:26.about a lot of other people as well. You may know, some of you, my

:22:27. > :22:29.question may know that the BBC is something of a rumour Mill, there

:22:30. > :22:35.are rumours about all sorts of people. I simply could not properly

:22:36. > :22:42.draw the inference from the fact that some people had heard rumours

:22:43. > :22:48.that senior managers had. I explained already that the BBC was a

:22:49. > :22:54.hierarchical organisation and a deferential one. The fact that

:22:55. > :22:59.people heard rumours in the canteens does not mean that people in

:23:00. > :23:04.management circles knew, I cannot draw that inference, and I will not

:23:05. > :23:15.do so. It would be quite wrong. Yes, you were next? David Henke, ex-RM

:23:16. > :23:20.news. I know the website you are referring to. Two questions... You

:23:21. > :23:31.are only allowed one and a supplementary, choose your best. Do

:23:32. > :23:37.you regret, in hindsight, the fact that you gave away half your terms

:23:38. > :23:41.of reference to look at child protection, obviously because you

:23:42. > :23:49.thought the report was going to come out earlier, and, dare I add, are

:23:50. > :23:54.you satisfied as well as a judge that you couldn't compel people to

:23:55. > :24:03.give evidence? You going on two questions. Do I regret giving away,

:24:04. > :24:12.as you call it, part of my terms of reference? The BBC told be that --

:24:13. > :24:15.told me that they realised their policies needed updating, and they

:24:16. > :24:21.wanted to get on with that work. They got on with it. They then

:24:22. > :24:27.wanted to have somebody look at those new policies, criticise them,

:24:28. > :24:34.give advice about them, sooner than I was going to be able to do it. I

:24:35. > :24:41.agreed that that was a perfectly sensible thing for them to do, and,

:24:42. > :24:49.no, I don't regret having given that material away. The good corporation

:24:50. > :24:54.was able to report much more quickly than I would have been able to in

:24:55. > :25:02.the event, last July. That has been useful to the BBC because they have

:25:03. > :25:07.been able to get on with putting into effect the good Corporation's

:25:08. > :25:11.recommendations, and I'm sure Lord Hall will have something to say

:25:12. > :25:20.about that later this morning. I don't regret it. It was a reasonable

:25:21. > :25:33.thing to do. You, with the pencil in your hand, next one along.

:25:34. > :25:39.Sorry, forgive me, I'm juggling some material that I need to read out.

:25:40. > :25:43.Forgive me for that. Commentator for the Daily Telegraph. One of the

:25:44. > :25:47.questions that you considered both in the draft and the final report

:25:48. > :25:52.was whether the predatory child abuser could be lurking in

:25:53. > :25:55.discovered in the BBC today -- whether a predatory child abuser.

:25:56. > :26:00.You used two different weddings in your answer. In the draft, you said

:26:01. > :26:03.you think it is possible. In the final report, you said, my answer is

:26:04. > :26:07.I do not think there is any organisation that can be completely

:26:08. > :26:13.confident that it does not harbour a child abuser, so my question is,

:26:14. > :26:16.those are two very different conclusions. One is a conclusion

:26:17. > :26:23.specifically about the BBC which has been widely reported, the other is a

:26:24. > :26:26.broad statistical point. I wonder what evidence and on whose

:26:27. > :26:33.representations you changed your conclusion? First of all, I received

:26:34. > :26:37.no representations at all in relation to that part of my report.

:26:38. > :26:45.Second, you have quoted from the leaked version a single sentence. If

:26:46. > :26:49.you quoted, and I would like you to do so, if you have it in front of

:26:50. > :26:53.you, if you quote the whole paragraph you will see that the

:26:54. > :26:59.sense of what I say has not changed. Read it out, will you? The answer is

:27:00. > :27:03.that I think it is possible, it must be recognised that child sex abusers

:27:04. > :27:07.can be highly intelligent, article at, and charismatic but manipulative

:27:08. > :27:13.people. Stuart Hall is an example, so, it seems is Rolf Harris. Savile

:27:14. > :27:16.was intelligent, charismatic, and extremely manipulative, if not

:27:17. > :27:20.always article at. Coupled with celebrity, the power of which shows

:27:21. > :27:23.no sign of diminishing in our society, it makes a powerful

:27:24. > :27:34.combination which makes detection difficult. Until a complaint is

:27:35. > :27:37.made, such people are likely to enjoy the confidence and approval of

:27:38. > :27:40.all those around them. So, what I am saying there, is it not, that it is

:27:41. > :27:42.extremely difficult to detect a child abuser in an organisation. The

:27:43. > :27:50.only changes that I have pointed out more clearly, as warning to the rest

:27:51. > :27:55.of society, that any organisation might be harbouring a child abuser,

:27:56. > :28:01.and they don't realise it, and they need to be on their guard. My

:28:02. > :28:04.supplementary, this has been a very widely reported, very sensational

:28:05. > :28:10.conclusion. I'm not responsible for that. What you are responsible for,

:28:11. > :28:14.as you said to the previous question, is that you may conclusion

:28:15. > :28:18.only on the basis of evidence, and I wonder what the evidence was that

:28:19. > :28:22.you used to make that specific conclusion about the BBC in your

:28:23. > :28:29.draft report? The specific conclusion in my draft report is

:28:30. > :28:33.that the BBC might have, I didn't say that they have. What I was

:28:34. > :28:43.seeking to point out is that no organisation can ever know. This is

:28:44. > :28:46.a really good example of the irresponsibility of the website

:28:47. > :28:53.publishing a report at a time when it has no business to do so. I was

:28:54. > :28:58.entitled to read read that passage of my report and amend it, and I did

:28:59. > :29:02.so, and nobody put me under any pressure to do so, I did so because

:29:03. > :29:09.I thought I could express it more clearly. That is the answer. Wait a

:29:10. > :29:17.minute, who was next? Who did I promise? It was me, I have the

:29:18. > :29:21.microphone. Katherine Rushton, Daily Mail. Did you speak to Mark Thompson

:29:22. > :29:28.as a witness at any point during your inquiries, and if not, why not?

:29:29. > :29:34.I did. Excellent, I have not found that page it. If you named in the

:29:35. > :29:39.report? Yes, I think so. There is not a great deal to report about

:29:40. > :29:47.him, but I did speak to him. Yes, I think you will find a passage about

:29:48. > :29:55.him in... Chapter ten, I think. Thank you. Don't hold me to that,

:29:56. > :30:05.but he is there. Who was next? At the got the microphone? After that,

:30:06. > :30:12.white shirt. I promise you next. Peter Saunders, from Mate Pavic,

:30:13. > :30:16.supporting survivors of abuse. To help you out with the previous

:30:17. > :30:20.question, what you said about the likelihood of an abuser working

:30:21. > :30:24.within the BBCi think was an entirely appropriate thing to say,

:30:25. > :30:28.because not only is there almost inevitably going to be other abusers

:30:29. > :30:32.within the BBC, there are, as you indicate, abusers in every

:30:33. > :30:39.organisation, large and small, that is a statistical reality that we

:30:40. > :30:44.have to grasp. But my question was initially to thank you for

:30:45. > :30:48.acknowledging the contribution of survivors of Savile and Hall, and

:30:49. > :30:52.having spoken to one or two of them in recent days, they have been

:30:53. > :30:55.dreading this day, as you can appreciate, so thank you for banking

:30:56. > :31:00.them in the appropriate date. It comes from the heart, I hope you can

:31:01. > :31:06.see that. I can see that clearly, Dame Janet. The question is, are you

:31:07. > :31:10.satisfied that those victims, survivors that have come forward now

:31:11. > :31:18.receiving the appropriate and proper support that they need in order to

:31:19. > :31:20.move on with their lives, because, again, we are still hearing from

:31:21. > :31:24.many survivors, including some of Savile's victims, that they are

:31:25. > :31:28.still not able to make progress in their life because, unlike myself,

:31:29. > :31:33.who can afford my weekly therapy session, I know many victims and

:31:34. > :31:37.survivors out there simply cannot afford to have private therapy, and

:31:38. > :31:39.it is time that the NHS were brought into this equation in order to help

:31:40. > :31:47.the many survivors. Sorry to go on. It's very difficult for me to answer

:31:48. > :31:52.this question because I don't have any resources to dispose of towards

:31:53. > :31:56.these victims but I can see that many of them will need help and I

:31:57. > :32:00.hope that they will be able to get it. But other than that, I really

:32:01. > :32:06.can't say anything. Now, then, who was next? The white

:32:07. > :32:11.shirt there, and then I promised you. Right, how are we doing for

:32:12. > :32:17.time? We're all right for time yet, OK. The white shirt? Patrick Foster

:32:18. > :32:20.from the Daily Telegraph, thank you. Sorry we are monopolising this. The

:32:21. > :32:22.Daily Telegraph have done rather well, your second go purely by

:32:23. > :32:26.chance. Purely by chance. You mentioned in

:32:27. > :32:30.the report and again in your statement, that you set the bar for

:32:31. > :32:34.corporate responsibility at the head of department. Yes. I wondered if

:32:35. > :32:37.you could give us a bit more information on how you came to set

:32:38. > :32:42.that level and specifically can you tell us, did you take any

:32:43. > :32:47.submissions from the BBC as to what the barrier, what the level was set

:32:48. > :32:52.at? I'll answer the second part of your question first and the answer

:32:53. > :32:54.is know, the BBC made no submissions of any kind in relation to my

:32:55. > :33:03.report. The law doesn't help about this

:33:04. > :33:06.issue. In the criminal law, for a company to be held responsible and

:33:07. > :33:12.to have knowledge of what was going on, you have to show that the

:33:13. > :33:16.controlling mind of the company was aware of an could be convicted of

:33:17. > :33:20.the offence if the company's going to be convicted of an offence. So

:33:21. > :33:28.that wasn't very much help to me because I didn't think that it was

:33:29. > :33:34.reasonable to limit BBC knowledge to such a very high level of

:33:35. > :33:38.responsibility. That would have really been maybe the Trust, not

:33:39. > :33:45.even the Trust, the executive board, and that would be far too narrow.

:33:46. > :33:51.I've heard quite a lot of evidence about the BBC's management structure

:33:52. > :33:57.and it seemed to me that the lowest level of the structure at which you

:33:58. > :34:01.could say that somebody had management responsibility for a

:34:02. > :34:08.defined part of the BBC was head of department. A head of department

:34:09. > :34:12.would be entitled to instigate an investigation I think, whereas

:34:13. > :34:22.anybody lower than that would not be. Producers wouldn't be. If

:34:23. > :34:27.producers had knowledge, their duty would be to report it to somebody

:34:28. > :34:30.senior but they wouldn't be able to do anything of their own motion.

:34:31. > :34:37.Similarly with an executive producer and editor of a news programme. That

:34:38. > :34:42.was really why I came to that conclusion. I just had to make a

:34:43. > :34:45.judgment as to what I thought was reasonable and to what I thought the

:34:46. > :34:49.public would think was reasonable, and there you are, that was my

:34:50. > :34:55.decision. Now who, was next, it really was you, wasn't it? Thank

:34:56. > :34:59.you, Julian from five news. You have said about the reluctance of some

:35:00. > :35:04.BBC to come forward. You have said an atmosphere of fear still exists,

:35:05. > :35:06.you have called it the culture of not complaining, that's extremely

:35:07. > :35:11.worrying, is it not? Yes.

:35:12. > :35:28.I must point out that I saw the bulk of the BBC witnesses that I saw in

:35:29. > :35:32.2013, some in 2014 and it saddened me that some of them were not

:35:33. > :35:36.prepared to speak unless they were guaranteed anonymity and it was

:35:37. > :35:41.clear that they were concerned that there could be some form of

:35:42. > :35:49.disadvantage, detriment to them, if they criticised the BBC. Since then,

:35:50. > :35:53.the good Corporation, well the BBC has amended its whistleblowing

:35:54. > :36:00.policies and has I think genuinely taken on board the fact that their

:36:01. > :36:04.culture of not reporting is deeply detrimental. The good Corporation

:36:05. > :36:11.has approved their policies, says they have got a lot of work to do

:36:12. > :36:15.still to implement them properly. But I think the good Corporation did

:36:16. > :36:19.find an increasing number of people were saying they felt a degree of

:36:20. > :36:25.confidence, so I hope that there's been a little bit of movement since

:36:26. > :36:32.the time that I saw those witnesses. But I do stress that the report that

:36:33. > :36:39.Diana Rose gave to the BBC called Respect at Work, she had exactly the

:36:40. > :36:46.same kind of report to her attitude to her that people were not prepared

:36:47. > :36:54.to come and talk to her group, her panel unless they were sure of

:36:55. > :36:58.anonymity. So that again was 12, 2012, 2013. I hope there may have

:36:59. > :37:03.been a little movement since then. I think there's a long way to go.

:37:04. > :37:07.Now, who did I promise? Who's got the microphone?

:37:08. > :37:19.I haven't done it properly. You're there with the red tie. You can have

:37:20. > :37:28.one and you, all right. Black jumper. There. OK. Now then, red

:37:29. > :37:34.tie? Mark Watts from Exero. Oh, that's two goes you've had. Like The

:37:35. > :37:41.Telegraph. You say in the report that DJA 7 told you that he was

:37:42. > :37:46.unaware of any complaint in relation to 15-year-old Claire McAlpine and

:37:47. > :37:51.he also told you that he was not interviewed by either of two

:37:52. > :37:57.investigations conducted by the BBC. You make, as a finding, that these

:37:58. > :38:03.claims are untrue. Can you be explicit? Are you accusing DJA 7 of

:38:04. > :38:08.lying to you? I'm not prepared to say whether I am or not, you must

:38:09. > :38:19.read the report and make of it what you wish. I had before me documents,

:38:20. > :38:25.contemporaneous documents from 1971, one relating to a conversation that

:38:26. > :38:36.took place between Bill Cotton and A 7. The other conversation between Mr

:38:37. > :38:41.Brian Neil QC, as he was then, the now Right Honourable Sir Brian Neil,

:38:42. > :38:47.both of whom said they had had conversations with A 7. A 7 told me

:38:48. > :38:51.that no such conversations had taken place and that this was not a lapse

:38:52. > :38:56.of memory on his part, they simply had not taken place. I rejected that

:38:57. > :39:07.evidence. That's really all I can say. You must understand that the

:39:08. > :39:14.truth or falsity of the allegations that Mr Cotton and Sir Brian were

:39:15. > :39:19.investigating was no part of my terms of reference, no part of my

:39:20. > :39:26.inquiry. What I was looking at is how did the BBC in those days deal

:39:27. > :39:31.with a complaint or a raising of a concern of a sexual nature?

:39:32. > :39:42.Particularly one involving a celebrity, as this one did. And, us

:39:43. > :39:47.see if you read chapter 9 of the report, you may not have had time to

:39:48. > :39:52.do that. I've read the draft and the final... Of course you have.

:39:53. > :39:57.You will see if you read chapter 9 that I'm deeply critical of the way

:39:58. > :40:01.in which the BBC conducted its investigation into those matters,

:40:02. > :40:05.that allegation was not properly investigated, A 7 was asked about

:40:06. > :40:10.it, denied it and the book was closed. That was not satisfactory

:40:11. > :40:15.for reasons which I explain in detail in my report. Can you explain

:40:16. > :40:20.why... Is this your supplimentary? It is. Can you explain why you

:40:21. > :40:28.agreed with DJA 7 why you would not name him? Was there concern in your

:40:29. > :40:32.team of libel? No, no, the reason that I agreed to anonymise him was

:40:33. > :40:37.the reason that I've just explained to you now. I was not concerned

:40:38. > :40:44.about the truth or falsity. His identity was not a matter of

:40:45. > :40:50.interest to me. My interest was the BBC received a complaint about

:40:51. > :40:58.sexual impropriety by a celebrity, how did the BBC handle it? It didn't

:40:59. > :41:02.matter to me what his name was. It obviously would matter to him so it

:41:03. > :41:09.would only be reasonable he'd not agree to come unless he was afforded

:41:10. > :41:15.anonymity. Would it not have been of vest interest to your readers? -- of

:41:16. > :41:18.interest. It is but my interest is limited to matters which fall within

:41:19. > :41:23.my terms of reference, and that is, as far as I am concerned, all that

:41:24. > :41:30.the public is entitled to know from me. Thank you. The fact that they

:41:31. > :41:35.might be interested generally is nothing to the point. Thank you,

:41:36. > :41:42.Dame Janet. Who was next? You in the black jumper I think? Has anybody...

:41:43. > :41:47.Yes, now I'll take this one and then one more. You at the back, now there

:41:48. > :41:53.are two hands that are overlapping. Two women sitting next to each

:41:54. > :42:03.other. You two. You choose between you. And you are going to be the

:42:04. > :42:08.last. Now then? Is A 7 right to say you made no suggestion he was guilty

:42:09. > :42:15.of any misconduct whatsoever? I did not make any such allegation. That

:42:16. > :42:21.is, as I've just explained, not within my terms of reference. I was

:42:22. > :42:29.interested in how did the BBC handle this complaint. The answer was, I'm

:42:30. > :42:39.sorry, very badly. Yes, at the back?

:42:40. > :42:49.Hi, Beth rig bifrom the Times. -- Rigby. In terms of the victims, Liz

:42:50. > :42:54.Ducks, the lawyer, said around the leak that it beggared belief that

:42:55. > :42:59.no-one in the management of the BBC would have known about what was

:43:00. > :43:04.going on. Do you accept that the victims might be disappointed today

:43:05. > :43:08.by your conclusions? And for the BBC, do you think that this report

:43:09. > :43:12.is a blow from which they can't recover reputationally? No, no, no,

:43:13. > :43:24.wait a minute that,'s definitely two questions. Sorry. Which one do you

:43:25. > :43:29.want? The Liz Dux one. In a sense I've already answered this, you

:43:30. > :43:34.know, because I spoke earlier on act the need for evidence -- about the

:43:35. > :43:38.need for evidence, either of a direct nature or circumstantial

:43:39. > :43:45.evidence from which I can properly draw an inference and I explained

:43:46. > :43:49.that I cannot draw an inference that the BBC knew at the level that I

:43:50. > :43:53.have explained to you I think is necessary for me to say that the BBC

:43:54. > :44:01.knew, namely head of department level. I can't draw any inference

:44:02. > :44:07.that they knew from rumour. I'm sorry if the victims do not have

:44:08. > :44:14.confidence in my conclusions, I'm really sorry about that. I hope that

:44:15. > :44:18.the victims, some of them might be listening, some of them might be

:44:19. > :44:23.watching, I hope they hear what I say now, but I hope they'll read the

:44:24. > :44:27.report and then they will, I hope, understand why I've reached the

:44:28. > :44:40.conclusion that I have. You simply cannot make that leap

:44:41. > :44:45.from people who've heard rumours. It simply doesn't work. Can I just ask

:44:46. > :44:50.a supplimentary question quickly? It's very quick. Just in terms of

:44:51. > :44:57.the lawyer, she also said that mandatory reporting laws should be

:44:58. > :45:03.introduced to insist that people do report the cover-up of abuse. Do you

:45:04. > :45:08.agree with that? No, I don't. I think it's a matter for the BBC, but

:45:09. > :45:16.I would expect it to be a rule think it's a matter for the BBC, but

:45:17. > :45:18.employment that people should report matters of concern of which they

:45:19. > :45:20.employment that people should report become aware, but I'm not in favour

:45:21. > :45:28.of the criminal law think that it's extremely difficult

:45:29. > :45:33.to know where to draw the lines between what should be an offence

:45:34. > :45:35.to know where to draw the lines and I don't think it's a good idea.

:45:36. > :45:39.I think what is and I don't think it's a good idea.

:45:40. > :45:44.something that and I don't think it's a good idea.

:45:45. > :45:48.just at the and I don't think it's a good idea.

:45:49. > :45:51.It's really important that we