14/03/2016

:00:00. > :00:08.I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:00:09. > :00:12."I was naive to support the Taliban, and I regret doing so,"

:00:13. > :00:15.the words of Babar Ahmad, jailed in the States

:00:16. > :00:19.In an exclusive interview on this programme,

:00:20. > :00:22.the former IT worker from London also tells us

:00:23. > :00:27.so-called Islamic State are alien to his heritage and beliefs.

:00:28. > :00:30.Think deeply and carefully about what you are doing,

:00:31. > :00:34.and don't allow yourself to be a pawn.

:00:35. > :00:38.Don't allow yourself to be used by other people.

:00:39. > :00:41.Don't let anyone bully you that the only way to paradise

:00:42. > :00:49.is by bringing misery upon innocent people who have done nothing to you.

:00:50. > :00:51.Watch that interview throughout the programme this morning.

:00:52. > :00:57.Turkish war planes have hit Kurdish rebel targets in northern Iraq,

:00:58. > :01:00.after a car-bombing killed 37 people in the Turkish capital, Ankara.

:01:01. > :01:05.Turkey's President is vowing to bring terrorism "to its knees".

:01:06. > :01:11.And Chris Evans has apologised unreservedly

:01:12. > :01:12.after scenes for his new Top Gear series

:01:13. > :01:23.were filmed near the Cenotaph in central London.

:01:24. > :01:28.We're live on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

:01:29. > :01:31.Throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking news,

:01:32. > :01:33.and your views are part of the programme too.

:01:34. > :01:41.If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:42. > :01:44.And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you are

:01:45. > :01:50.This morning, in an exclusive interview, a British man jailed over

:01:51. > :01:53.a website considered to be a key moment in the birth of the internet

:01:54. > :01:57.jihad tells this programme he had been naive to support the Taliban.

:01:58. > :01:59.41-year-old Babar Ahmad was convicted of two counts

:02:00. > :02:02.of providing material support to terrorism

:02:03. > :02:07.and sentenced to 12 and a half years in prison.

:02:08. > :02:10.The former IT support worker had fought a record eight-year-long

:02:11. > :02:15.campaign against extradition for offences committed in the UK.

:02:16. > :02:18.British authorities never charged him,

:02:19. > :02:22.but he later pleaded guilty in the States.

:02:23. > :02:25.Two articles posted on a website he founded, called Azzam,

:02:26. > :02:31.urged Muslims to send money and equipment to the Taliban,

:02:32. > :02:34.who at the time were harbouring Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda

:02:35. > :02:40.In his first interview since his release

:02:41. > :02:43.from a high-security prison in the States eight months ago,

:02:44. > :02:48.Babar Ahmad tell us he was wrong to support the Taliban.

:02:49. > :02:51.He alleges he was hooded by officers in the Met Police,

:02:52. > :02:56.of the European Convention on Human Rights.

:02:57. > :03:03.He condemns so-called Islamic State as alien to his heritage and beliefs

:03:04. > :03:06.and talks about meeting Labour's London mayoral candidate

:03:07. > :03:09.Sadiq Khan twice since his release from prison.

:03:10. > :03:13.We'll play you that interview in just a moment,

:03:14. > :04:05.but first here's everything you need to know about his case.

:04:06. > :04:13.The LP was very insistent on the needful military experience and

:04:14. > :04:18.adventure. He thought it was a part of a devout Muslim's upbringing. And

:04:19. > :05:12.it was a message which resonated with a lot of young people.

:05:13. > :05:18.He would be viewed in this country and overseas as a terrorist. The

:05:19. > :05:24.fact that he did not blow himself up, the fact that he did not kill

:05:25. > :06:07.soldiers or innocence in other parts of the world...

:06:08. > :06:09.In this first extract of our exclusive interview,

:06:10. > :06:11.he tells us why he pleaded guilty to terrorism offences

:06:12. > :06:17.and whether he considers himself a terrorist.

:06:18. > :06:21.You pleaded guilty in the States to providing material support

:06:22. > :06:24.for terrorism and conspiring to provide

:06:25. > :06:29.And what that means is funds, personnel and equipment

:06:30. > :06:39.and as the judge said, it was not about you planning a terrorist

:06:40. > :06:42.attack, it was about you giving support via a website

:06:43. > :06:46.at the time they were protecting Osama Bin Laden,

:06:47. > :06:47.before he carried out the 9/11 attacks.

:06:48. > :06:49.It means you are a convicted terrorist.

:06:50. > :06:56.The judge, one of the most senior judges in America,

:06:57. > :07:01.who sentenced me, Judge Janet Hall, after seeing all the evidence

:07:02. > :07:04.in my case, she said, "This man is not a terrorist."

:07:05. > :07:07.At the time I pleaded guilty, I had been in prison for nine

:07:08. > :07:14.I'd been in solitary confinement for about just

:07:15. > :07:17.over a year, and the prosecutors offered me a deal.

:07:18. > :07:22.and you'll be back in England within a year."

:07:23. > :07:36.Well, I view myself in the way that the judge described me.

:07:37. > :07:39.She said, "This is a good person, he is not a risk to anyone,

:07:40. > :07:43.and more importantly this man is not a terrorist."

:07:44. > :07:46.So I mean, other people are entitled to their opinion about me,

:07:47. > :07:51.but people who know me, and the judge who saw the evidence

:07:52. > :07:57.against me, she came to the right conclusion.

:07:58. > :08:01.She also said what you did was very serious, it's not the most serious

:08:02. > :08:05.crime that can be committed, but you can't walk away

:08:06. > :08:08.from the fact that what you were doing was enabling Osama Bin Laden

:08:09. > :08:12.to be protected in Afghanistan and to train

:08:13. > :08:15.the men who actually boarded the flights that drove

:08:16. > :08:17.into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

:08:18. > :08:20.You were, both by your voice and what you were asking people

:08:21. > :08:23.to do, encouraging the Taliban to protect

:08:24. > :08:26.Bin Laden and indeed to fight against the United States,

:08:27. > :08:32.She also went on... But do you accept that?

:08:33. > :08:37.She did make that statement, yes. Do you accept that?

:08:38. > :08:40.She also went on to say that Mr Ahmad never believed

:08:41. > :08:46.in or supported the views of Al-Qaeda or Osama Bin Laden,

:08:47. > :08:49.so it was sort of like, by advocating support

:08:50. > :08:52.for the Taliban, who at that time had,

:08:53. > :08:55.due to their failure to hand over Bin Laden to the United States,

:08:56. > :08:58.in effect that is what was happening.

:08:59. > :09:04.Well, not knowingly, because at that time I didn't really

:09:05. > :09:08.know what Bin Laden was about, but technically yes,

:09:09. > :09:10.that is what was happening at the time, that the Taliban,

:09:11. > :09:14.due to their failure to hand over Bin Laden,

:09:15. > :09:18.and it wasn't known at the time, and ident know at the time that 9/11

:09:19. > :09:22.is being planned and what Bin Laden is really up to, so my support,

:09:23. > :09:26.my advocating support of the Taliban was to help establish an Islamic

:09:27. > :09:31.society, but I do accept that, with hindsight,

:09:32. > :09:42.I did it in good faith, but in hindsight

:09:43. > :09:45.I regret doing that, and it was naive of me to do that.

:09:46. > :09:47.Because it was a complicated situation.

:09:48. > :09:55.To be clear, then, you regret supporting the Taliban back then?

:09:56. > :10:00.Yes, yes. Why did you support them?

:10:01. > :10:06.I think, during the 1990s, the late 1990s,

:10:07. > :10:16.after my experiences in Bosnia, after meeting survivors

:10:17. > :10:21.from the Srebrenica massacre, I think what the United Nations

:10:22. > :10:24.did at Srebrenica, there was a sense of,

:10:25. > :10:26.we have to protect ourselves, and if we don't protect

:10:27. > :10:31.ourselves, no-one is going to protect us.

:10:32. > :10:37.So your experiences, then, were they crucial in terms

:10:38. > :10:40.of the motivation for the setting up of the websites?

:10:41. > :10:46.Because what I saw in Bosnia, and at the end of the war in Bosnia,

:10:47. > :10:49.then I lost a lot of friends,

:10:50. > :10:53.who died fighting to protect the Bosnian people.

:10:54. > :10:59.And I considered them heroes, I still consider them heroes.

:11:00. > :11:03.And I wanted the world to know about them, and so we made a series

:11:04. > :11:08.of audio cassettes and books talking about their stories

:11:09. > :11:16.Just preserving their legacy, just telling the world

:11:17. > :11:20.about these heroes, these great men, who went and left their own lives

:11:21. > :11:23.behind in order to help bring life to other people.

:11:24. > :11:27.In 2001, an article was posted on one of the websites

:11:28. > :11:36.for the Taliban government in Afghanistan.

:11:37. > :11:40.You know, "What you can do to help the Taliban" was the headline,

:11:41. > :11:44.and it talked about how people good, effectively, send $20,000 to them,

:11:45. > :11:53.You didn't post that article, did you feel a responsibility

:11:54. > :11:56.for it being on the website, though? Yes, of course.

:11:57. > :12:00.I was the founder of the website, so even though I didn't post that

:12:01. > :12:03.article, as the founder of it, I accepted criminal responsibility

:12:04. > :12:10.and that, together with another article, was the sum total

:12:11. > :12:14.for which I pleaded guilty, that was my offence.

:12:15. > :12:16.And did you agree with that article,

:12:17. > :12:18.what you could do to help the Taliban?

:12:19. > :12:24.The article called for people to send equipment to the Taliban,

:12:25. > :12:28.Did you agree with that? Yes.

:12:29. > :12:30.At the time, there was a risk that there

:12:31. > :12:37.This is all happening way before 9/11, so the Taliban,

:12:38. > :12:41.at that time, they are in government with three embassies,

:12:42. > :12:43.recognised by three countries around the world,

:12:44. > :12:45.and they are involved in a civil conflict

:12:46. > :12:51.So at that time, it was said that Russian troops might

:12:52. > :12:59.launch a chemical invasion of Afghanistan

:13:00. > :13:02.and so the website published appeals calling for gas masks

:13:03. > :13:08.to help defend themselves against a chemical attack.

:13:09. > :13:11.One of the articles was still on the website after 9/11,

:13:12. > :13:14.when it was clear that Al-Qaeda was responsible for 9/11.

:13:15. > :13:17.There was 4,000 items of content that went on the websites.

:13:18. > :13:23.So, obviously, you know, a lot of them,

:13:24. > :13:26.they stayed on for way after. It's...

:13:27. > :13:31.It's easy to put everything in the context of 9/11,

:13:32. > :13:34.whereas, at 4000 items of content on the website,

:13:35. > :13:38.98% were about Bosnia and Chechnya, and then right at the end

:13:39. > :13:43.of the life of the website, there were these two articles

:13:44. > :13:46.supporting the Taliban, which, of course, I mean,

:13:47. > :13:51.in hindsight that decision to put those articles on the website

:13:52. > :13:53.and to advocate support for the Taliban,

:13:54. > :13:57.then I regret that, and it was naive at the time.

:13:58. > :14:00.With the hindsight of what is actually going on

:14:01. > :14:11.In late 2001, again, after 9/11, Azzam posted a farewell message.

:14:12. > :14:18."We believe the word of Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban

:14:19. > :14:21.as Muslims when they say they had nothing to do

:14:22. > :14:24.with this terrorist attack, over and above the word

:14:25. > :14:30.If they did it, they would proudly say so, because they are not

:14:31. > :14:34.afraid of the reprisals from anyone."

:14:35. > :14:36.What did you think of those sentiments at the time?

:14:37. > :14:43.Here lies the naivety of taking people's words at face value.

:14:44. > :14:50.And strange and odd as it seems now, at the time I never believed

:14:51. > :14:55.that Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were behind 9/11.

:14:56. > :14:57.They only accepted responsibility for it, I think it was about

:14:58. > :15:03.four years later, in 2005, where Bin Laden made a statement

:15:04. > :15:07.saying, "Yes, we accept responsibility for that."

:15:08. > :15:10.So even though much of the rest of the world

:15:11. > :15:16.knew it was Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden?

:15:17. > :15:18.Well, there was assumptions, and me as a Muslim, who am

:15:19. > :15:26.You know, if I have to take sides, Bush said, "You are either with us

:15:27. > :15:30.So after that, it wasn't really about

:15:31. > :15:33.Al-Qaeda, it was about this country, you know, the Taliban,

:15:34. > :15:35.they are being attacked, and if I'm going to

:15:36. > :15:43.take sides, then obviously I'm going to take their side.

:15:44. > :15:45.It doesn't mean that I support Al-Qaeda or Bin

:15:46. > :15:48.Laden, because of my experience in Bosnia where, you have a Muslim

:15:49. > :15:52.nation that is attacked by a foreign invading army,

:15:53. > :15:54.then my sympathy would be with the Muslims,

:15:55. > :15:59.How would you describe the Taliban now?

:16:00. > :16:01.Well, I was wrong to advocate support for them,

:16:02. > :16:10.You have always made it clear that you condemn 9/11.

:16:11. > :16:20.Do you understand why the American authorities might think otherwise?

:16:21. > :16:38.I sort of get where the United States is coming from,

:16:39. > :16:40.they were angry, the case agent who investigated me told me

:16:41. > :16:42.so during the flight, during my extradition.

:16:43. > :16:46.And he told me, I lost 14 colleagues in 9/11,

:16:47. > :16:56.and as he said that, he looked at me in the eye,

:16:57. > :16:58.and he said, that is what motivated me in my work.

:16:59. > :17:00.So inside I thought, what, somebody did

:17:01. > :17:05.When people are angry, they don't make rational

:17:06. > :17:11.decisions, they don't think rationally.

:17:12. > :17:13.So one of those irrational decisions was to think

:17:14. > :17:21.that somehow I had something to do with Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden.

:17:22. > :17:28.To come after me, and after 11 years the judge declared that

:17:29. > :17:30.that was all nonsense, she rejected that, that I never

:17:31. > :17:33.supported Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden or associated with them or advocated

:17:34. > :17:37.You were sentenced in 2014 to 12 and a half years in jail,

:17:38. > :17:40.and the US authorities actually wanted a jail sentence of 25 years.

:17:41. > :17:46.I didn't expect the judge to say the words that she did about me,

:17:47. > :17:50.that this is a good person who never meant any harm to anyone.

:17:51. > :17:57.And it was a pleasant surprise, I mean, I knew that in my

:17:58. > :18:01.heart all along, but it was a surprise.

:18:02. > :18:04.You have said a number of times that you are not a terrorist,

:18:05. > :18:06.you have quoted some of the judge's comments.

:18:07. > :18:09.Yes, she said you are a good person, yes, she believed you posed no

:18:10. > :18:12.threat to the public, but that what you did was serious.

:18:13. > :18:16.Some of the things I mentioned earlier.

:18:17. > :18:20.You pleaded guilty to terrorism offences, two of them.

:18:21. > :18:25.Therefore, in the eyes of the law, you are a terrorist.

:18:26. > :18:28.In the eyes of US law, not in the eyes of British law.

:18:29. > :18:35.As the judge said, pleading guilty to material support

:18:36. > :18:37.for terrorism does not make you a terrorist.

:18:38. > :18:45.Well, according to the laws of the United States,

:18:46. > :18:50.I am a convicted felon, to use legal parlance.

:18:51. > :18:56.The last time I checked, British law applies in Britain,

:18:57. > :18:58.so absolutely, to make it clear, according to the laws

:18:59. > :19:00.of the United States, I am a convicted

:19:01. > :19:05.felon who pleaded guilty to providing material support

:19:06. > :19:07.to terrorism and conspiring to provide

:19:08. > :19:16.But that makes no difference to me, who I am,

:19:17. > :19:25.The judge made that clear, and I think ultimately the judge's

:19:26. > :19:29.It is as though you want it both ways, you pleaded guilty,

:19:30. > :19:31.it was a plea bargain so you could effectively,

:19:32. > :19:34.you know, come home soon, come back to Britain sooner.

:19:35. > :19:37.And now you are here it is like that is irrelevant now.

:19:38. > :19:40.Well, no, I want to make it clear, I have no regrets

:19:41. > :19:47.Pleading guilty in America, I think that was the best decision

:19:48. > :19:49.of my life, because it allowed me to come

:19:50. > :19:53.So I am not now saying that I shouldn't have pleaded guilty.

:19:54. > :19:55.According to the laws of the United States,

:19:56. > :20:01.I was guilty, and that is why I have pleaded guilty.

:20:02. > :20:15.Gary says I think this man is brave to go against the Taliban, come out

:20:16. > :20:21.and public and show your face is a feat within itself. I agree he was

:20:22. > :20:25.wrong, putting it lightly, this shows the intelligence of Babar

:20:26. > :20:30.Ahmed to recognise it, unfortunately too late because it was after he

:20:31. > :20:35.contributed to terrorist activity. Another said he was wrong to support

:20:36. > :20:39.Islamist extremists. Another, one soon learns the value of liberty in

:20:40. > :20:45.free society when liberty is withdrawn for abusing the freedom

:20:46. > :20:49.bestowed upon you. Ian, hang on, he supported a terrorist organisation

:20:50. > :20:53.blowing soldiers and citizens up and he is complaining because he had to

:20:54. > :20:54.wear a blindfold and it breached human rights, have I missed

:20:55. > :20:59.something here? hour version of this

:21:00. > :21:12.interview on our YouTube page and after ten we'll get his reaction

:21:13. > :21:18.to the growth of so-called Islamic State a group who didn't

:21:19. > :21:20.exist when he was first Babar Ahmad wasn't paid

:21:21. > :21:23.a fee for his interview, in fact we don't pay

:21:24. > :21:25.any interviewees. We'll be speaking to the mother

:21:26. > :21:29.of a 14-year-old boy murdered The police force which handled

:21:30. > :21:36.the case apologises unreservedly And as the rise in STIs is blamed

:21:37. > :21:41.in part on oral sex, we'll be asking if the under 30s

:21:42. > :21:47.know enough about how to protect Turkish war planes hit Kurdish rebel

:21:48. > :21:55.targets in northern Iraq after a car-bombing killed 37 people

:21:56. > :22:01.in the Turkish capital, Ankara. The Interior Minister

:22:02. > :22:19.said the perpetrators, -- the president said they would

:22:20. > :22:24.bring it to its knees. The government blaming rebels for the

:22:25. > :22:36.attack. Has any one group claimed responsibility? Not yet, nobody

:22:37. > :22:42.holds the responsibility of the attack. We can confirm the

:22:43. > :22:52.investigation is continuing in Ankara. The police arrested 14

:22:53. > :23:02.people, suspicious, maybe they had links with the explosion. At the

:23:03. > :23:06.area here, security closed it and earlier security put a barrier in

:23:07. > :23:11.front of the area where the explosion happened. We cannot see

:23:12. > :23:16.exactly what happened there but the information we have, from the

:23:17. > :23:21.security, that the investigation teams are trying to get more

:23:22. > :23:27.information about the identity of the victims. Some sources are

:23:28. > :23:36.talking about a lady, maybe she is behind this attack. All the

:23:37. > :23:42.information now is they ask the family of the lady, they ask for a

:23:43. > :23:48.test of the blood to test DNA to see if it is exactly the attack's. We

:23:49. > :23:55.have information that the Turkish Prime Minister will visit the scene

:23:56. > :23:59.after one hour and we are expecting that... He promised to say today who

:24:00. > :24:00.is behind this attack and so everybody is waiting for this

:24:01. > :24:10.information. Thanks. Babar Ahmad, the former IT worker

:24:11. > :24:13.from London who was jailed in the US for supporting the Taliban online,

:24:14. > :24:16.tells this programme exclusively he was naive and

:24:17. > :24:17.regrets his actions. We will bring you more of that

:24:18. > :24:21.interview throughout the programme. The party of German Chancellor

:24:22. > :24:23.Angela Merkel has been defeated in two out of three states

:24:24. > :24:26.in regional elections, in what's being seen as a sharp

:24:27. > :24:29.rebuke to its policy of welcoming Chris Evans has apologised

:24:30. > :24:43."unreservedly" after scenes for the new Top Gear

:24:44. > :24:58.were filmed near the Cenotaph It was seen as disrespectful to the

:24:59. > :25:04.Armed Forces. A successful mission to Mars has been -- successful

:25:05. > :25:09.launch of the mission to Mars has happened in the last few minutes.

:25:10. > :25:17.It was a packed weekend of sport. Scotland beat France which means

:25:18. > :25:21.England are Six Nations champions. I will get onto what that means for

:25:22. > :25:27.them in a second but let me tell you about Scotland, the first time they

:25:28. > :25:30.have beaten France in a decade. They conceded a try early in the Scottish

:25:31. > :25:35.and had to put a shift into comeback. A beautiful solo effort by

:25:36. > :25:42.Duncan Taylor and if you have not seen it, go to the BBC sport website

:25:43. > :25:48.to see it. An incredible solo effort. For England, their first

:25:49. > :25:52.title since 2011 and the new coach Eddie Jones has won it at the first

:25:53. > :25:58.time of asking and what a turnaround from the World Cup shambles a few

:25:59. > :26:02.months ago. Despite the England victory, it has been overshadowed by

:26:03. > :26:08.an England player, Joe Marler, who has been accused of using a racially

:26:09. > :26:15.derogatory term against Welsh player Samson Lee in relation to Samson

:26:16. > :26:18.Lee's traveller background. We understand officials are

:26:19. > :26:24.investigating and we will look at that more in-depth when I return. In

:26:25. > :26:29.tennis, Rafael Nadal, 14 time grand slam champion, said he will suit the

:26:30. > :26:36.former French minister for saying his time off in 2012 was probably

:26:37. > :26:39.due to a positive doping test. He said he has heard allegations like

:26:40. > :26:43.this before and not challenge them in the past, but no more, so we will

:26:44. > :26:46.hear more on that when I come back just after 10am.

:26:47. > :26:47.Next - there are warnings that unprotected

:26:48. > :26:49.oral sex is spreading more sexually transmitted infections

:26:50. > :26:55.The British Association for Sexual Health and HIV has told

:26:56. > :26:59.Radio 1's Newsbeat that many under 30s don't know they can get

:27:00. > :27:01.infections like genital herpes, chlamydia and drug resistant

:27:02. > :27:11.We're going to talk frankly now about oral sex, STIs and protection

:27:12. > :27:14.now with Tyler John who's a 20 year old student in Leciester and works

:27:15. > :27:17.part time for a sexual health organisation.

:27:18. > :27:19.And Dr Peter Greenhouse, a leading sexual health consultant,

:27:20. > :27:29.You may not want young children to hear some of this conversation

:27:30. > :27:38.How can people protect themselves through contracting STIs through

:27:39. > :27:49.oral sex? Either using condom is all a dental damn. Nowadays, the only

:27:50. > :27:56.people who meticulously use condom is for oral sex are female sex

:27:57. > :28:04.workers, which is a problem for everyone else because one reason we

:28:05. > :28:08.have persistent gonorrhoea is that they do not permeate the throat so

:28:09. > :28:16.well. You have to know infections can be passed on. It is an important

:28:17. > :28:20.issue, worth talking about. Do you think people are aware they can use

:28:21. > :28:25.condom is to protect themselves when it comes to oral sex? Most people if

:28:26. > :28:32.they thought about it could do but in the heat of the moment they might

:28:33. > :28:38.be meticulous about using condom is for penetration but very few people

:28:39. > :28:42.bother to use them for oral sex. Although it would dramatically

:28:43. > :28:47.reduce the risk of transmission is, a certain number of infections pass

:28:48. > :28:51.this way. It is not the most important method. But it is on the

:28:52. > :28:57.increase. What is important about it, if you have got a faster rate of

:28:58. > :29:03.change partner, you have a greater risk of passing of infections and

:29:04. > :29:10.you want to that. How where are you off the risk of STIs and also your

:29:11. > :29:16.university friends? I like to think as a sex educator I am aware because

:29:17. > :29:20.I have had the opportunity to be exposed to this information. I

:29:21. > :29:24.cannot speak for everyone at university because there is a

:29:25. > :29:29.diverse range of people but I have friends that are not using

:29:30. > :29:33.contraception when they have penetrative sex which is

:29:34. > :29:37.unfortunate, but as an educator we do not like to blame people for

:29:38. > :29:40.misconceptions they might have author not using them because we

:29:41. > :29:45.believe there is something inherently wrong with the sex

:29:46. > :29:53.education system. I would like to think everybody knows what a condom

:29:54. > :29:58.is, what is a dental damn? It is a piece of latex this big. It is

:29:59. > :30:06.placed over the vagina all opening for oral sex and will protect. It

:30:07. > :30:20.will help against the spread of STIs which can be contracted from oral

:30:21. > :30:24.sex. Do you agree with the doctor with dating apps, people having more

:30:25. > :30:31.partners, it can contribute to the rise? People are being exposed to

:30:32. > :30:37.situations where they will have more sex. That is something, as

:30:38. > :30:42.educators, we warn against. We always say, for every change of

:30:43. > :30:47.sexual partner you should go to the GP or local clinic to be tested. You

:30:48. > :30:52.should be tested once a year. Does anyone do that, every time they

:30:53. > :30:57.change sexual partner? That is what we encourage. It would be ignorant

:30:58. > :31:03.of me to say all people engaging in sexual activity will get tested

:31:04. > :31:07.because with the data released, I am not sure of the statistics, but if

:31:08. > :31:12.there is an increase in the spread of STIs through oral sex, that is

:31:13. > :31:16.not happening, it is because people are not aware, people are under the

:31:17. > :31:21.misconception you cannot catch anything that way. Thanks.

:31:22. > :31:26.Coming up, the British man jailed for supporting the Taliban,

:31:27. > :31:30.but he has told this programme he regrets doing so.

:31:31. > :31:37.We will have more of your reaction to it, Peter says, even if he knew

:31:38. > :31:42.nothing about 9/11, how could he support the Taliban's attitudes to

:31:43. > :31:43.citizens, especially to women? Another says, respect the honesty of

:31:44. > :31:46.Babar Ahmad. No amount of money

:31:47. > :31:48.will bring my son back, the words of a mother

:31:49. > :31:50.whose 14-year-old son was murdered by a man

:31:51. > :31:54.he met online. Breck Bednar was killed in 2014

:31:55. > :31:56.after going to the home of Lewis Daynes, who was then 18,

:31:57. > :31:59.whom he'd met online. This was the phone call Daynes

:32:00. > :32:01.made to police I need police and a forensic team

:32:02. > :32:19.to my address, please. My friend and I got

:32:20. > :32:27.into an altercation and... I am the only one

:32:28. > :32:30.who came out alive. Are you telling me

:32:31. > :32:33.you've killed somebody? Daynes is now serving life

:32:34. > :32:40.for Breck's murder Weeks before Breck was killed,

:32:41. > :32:45.his mother, Lorin LaFave, had called police with concerns

:32:46. > :32:50.about his relationship with Daynes. They did nothing,

:32:51. > :32:56.and an investigation later found the force failed to deal

:32:57. > :33:00.with her properly and that call-centre staff his

:33:01. > :33:05.mother spoke to lacked knowledge. The force has now

:33:06. > :33:08.unreservedly apologised, and paid the family an undisclosed

:33:09. > :33:24.amount of compensation. Thank you very much for coming on

:33:25. > :33:29.the programme again. Do explain for those were not aware of the details

:33:30. > :33:34.how Surrey Police failed to protect your son? Well, I felt Breck was

:33:35. > :33:38.being groomed, and it had been over a matter of months his personality

:33:39. > :33:42.had changed, his ideology was changing, and I felt he was being

:33:43. > :33:49.brainwashed. So I did what I thought was the most highest, important

:33:50. > :33:53.thing I could do, and I told them my concerns about Breck and some of the

:33:54. > :33:58.stories, like the predator has said he had given $2 million in Bitcoin

:33:59. > :34:03.trades to the Syrian rebels, and stories that he had worked for the

:34:04. > :34:07.US Government and at this amazing undercover career, and how I felt he

:34:08. > :34:11.was grooming boys, Breck in particular. I was told that police

:34:12. > :34:15.intelligence would be checked, I was told that three times. Five times I

:34:16. > :34:19.mentioned Breck was being groomed, so I felt a false sense of security

:34:20. > :34:24.that this person would be checked out, because I did feel that he was

:34:25. > :34:28.a dangerous predator. Surrey Police, as I said in the introduction,

:34:29. > :34:31.clearly accept that mistakes have been made, they are unreservedly

:34:32. > :34:36.apologise. They released that in a statement yesterday. Have they

:34:37. > :34:41.apologise to you? They did try to make an appointment with me, and it

:34:42. > :34:46.literally coincided with the release of Daynes's second tweet to me, so I

:34:47. > :34:52.had to cancel the appointment to deal with police on that issue

:34:53. > :34:56.instead. I do not know exactly who is supposed to apologise, because it

:34:57. > :35:02.is such a big entity. You know, it is quite formal, and it is not face

:35:03. > :35:06.to face at this point. Do you want that? Do you need that? I don't

:35:07. > :35:11.know, because really it comes down to people who have left and

:35:12. > :35:15.resigned, weather will be misconduct charges, and their supervisors, the

:35:16. > :35:22.people running the department. It is a big entity in itself. It is just

:35:23. > :35:27.nice to have this stepping stone, take it off the list, this horrible

:35:28. > :35:33.tragedy, and move forward with the Breck Foundation. Why was it

:35:34. > :35:37.important for you to pursue damages? What we wanted at the beginning was

:35:38. > :35:41.to find out what really happened, because at the beginning we didn't

:35:42. > :35:45.know if Essex had failed to put Daynes into the system because you

:35:46. > :35:50.was known to the police. That is where he lived, your son travelled

:35:51. > :35:55.to his arm. He was known to the police for prior allegations of rape

:35:56. > :35:59.against a 15-year-old boy as well as having indecent images of children

:36:00. > :36:02.on his computer and hacking his school computers. He was known to

:36:03. > :36:09.police, and we wanted to get to the bottom of where the failing was in

:36:10. > :36:12.the chain of investigation. The IPCC did investigate both forces.

:36:13. > :36:15.Unfortunately, we have to fight to have those being dependent

:36:16. > :36:19.investigations, because the last thing we wanted was for the forces

:36:20. > :36:23.to investigate themselves and not look thoroughly and off, and that is

:36:24. > :36:29.why we had to fight to get independent investigations. --

:36:30. > :36:32.thoroughly enough. Can I ask a much compensation you have received? We

:36:33. > :36:39.are not allowed to discuss any details of the settlement. It is, of

:36:40. > :36:45.course, there is nothing that will bring Breck bag, a public apology or

:36:46. > :36:49.anything. It is just another step to move forward. You mentioned the call

:36:50. > :36:54.handler resigned, the supervisor resigned. It meant, amongst other

:36:55. > :36:59.things, that they avoided misconduct charges. We are going to play some

:37:00. > :37:03.of your initial phone call to Surrey Police, so our audience can hear it.

:37:04. > :37:11.We do not identify the call handler, and it has been edited.

:37:12. > :37:16.How can I help? Yes, I have a 14-year-old son, and there is an

:37:17. > :37:22.18-year-old unknown... Well, he says he is 18, and I feel like he is

:37:23. > :37:28.being groomed. He has been turned against his family and schooling,

:37:29. > :37:31.and it has been ongoing for a while, I'm getting really concerned that

:37:32. > :37:36.this person is not who he says he is. What sort of concerns do you

:37:37. > :37:44.have? Obviously, there is an age difference... He is trying to turn

:37:45. > :37:47.them against everything. He is talking about government, he is

:37:48. > :37:53.anti-government, he said he worked for the US Government, but he is

:37:54. > :38:02.anti-government, he says he has given ?2 million to Syria because of

:38:03. > :38:08.their crisis. OK. He is against Christianity, he has told my son he

:38:09. > :38:13.should not be obligated to go to church, that he should not go. So

:38:14. > :38:19.there are religious elements, government almonds. And he is

:38:20. > :38:22.grooming him for something. -- government elements. He is trying to

:38:23. > :38:24.change is thinking set on everything.

:38:25. > :38:26.Surrey Police say they "accept mistakes were made in how

:38:27. > :38:29.Ms LaFave's telephone call to them was handled and responded to

:38:30. > :38:30.and unreservedly apologises for them."

:38:31. > :38:32."As part of the settlement, Surrey Police have agreed

:38:33. > :38:35.to implement recommended changes to their procedures to ensure

:38:36. > :38:42.that other children like Breck are protected."

:38:43. > :38:49.Your call in total lasted for just under 12 minutes. The call handler

:38:50. > :38:56.said they did not recall having any training specifically on grooming,

:38:57. > :39:01.and a new procedure has since been put in place to make sure that child

:39:02. > :39:05.sexual exploitation is recognised at that call handling stage, and then

:39:06. > :39:08.it will be escalated to an intelligence officer, and of any

:39:09. > :39:12.duty inspector. Plus, they now have a template for which questions to

:39:13. > :39:17.ask if someone like you, who might call them with concerns about

:39:18. > :39:28.grooming, is that enough? I think it is a start. We need to make sure

:39:29. > :39:30.that this is maintained, and the problem with any sort of position

:39:31. > :39:33.like this, you know, it is high stress, it is shift work, long hours

:39:34. > :39:35.- retention is difficult. This training will need to be done on a

:39:36. > :39:38.regular basis, because that is constantly new people coming in,

:39:39. > :39:43.people do not understand that boys can be groomed as much as girls. Any

:39:44. > :39:47.child has a vulnerability, and because there was no sexual

:39:48. > :39:51.messages, I think that also made the call handler and the call close,

:39:52. > :39:57.they are both at fault, the call close could have said, where is the

:39:58. > :40:01.PNC checks? The Police National Computer. Neither of them made an

:40:02. > :40:11.effort to do this simple check. So it is a lot of training, but it is

:40:12. > :40:13.not just a one-off, it has to be ongoing, and not just for Surrey,

:40:14. > :40:16.but forces all over the country. If they had checked the Police National

:40:17. > :40:19.Computer, they would have found a previous allegation made against

:40:20. > :40:24.Daynes in 2011. You believed that you had a tweet from Daynes

:40:25. > :40:28.recently, you believe you have had two online messages from him. The

:40:29. > :40:33.Prison Service say they have found nothing in his cell that he could

:40:34. > :40:37.have used to send that. The police are investigating, where are they up

:40:38. > :40:42.to in that? Why do you believe it is him? I have just heard today that

:40:43. > :40:47.they have got a lead but they cannot tell me what it is. He is very

:40:48. > :40:52.techno savvy, so he has got it going to different ISP addresses. Google

:40:53. > :40:56.and Twitter say he has a right to freedom of speech, which makes me

:40:57. > :41:01.completely shocked that a admitted murderer is allowed these rights to

:41:02. > :41:05.harass, slander, libel the mother of the victim. We are waiting for

:41:06. > :41:08.investigations, but it is very difficult, so we need police trained

:41:09. > :41:12.so that they can catch up with the criminals and be able to be more

:41:13. > :41:15.savvy than them, and that is the problem right now. Thank you very

:41:16. > :41:18.much for coming on the programme, thank you for talking to us.

:41:19. > :41:20.Still to come in the next hour of the programme,

:41:21. > :41:22.an apology from Chris Evans over scenes were filmed

:41:23. > :41:24.for the new Top Gear near the Cenotaph

:41:25. > :41:32.Plus, we will play you more of the interview with Baba Amr and, the

:41:33. > :41:38.British man jailed for supporting the Taliban online. -- Babar Ahmad.

:41:39. > :41:44.Many of you getting in touch about the first part of the interview,

:41:45. > :41:47.which we played just after 9:15. Pamela and Facebook, I know there

:41:48. > :41:55.have been things I have believed in passionately only to find out I was

:41:56. > :42:00.wrong to support them. Richard says, once a traitor, always a traitor.

:42:01. > :42:05.Another says, Byblos sorry when they get caught, not for what they did.

:42:06. > :42:09.John says, great to hear the interview, thought provoking. There

:42:10. > :42:14.are Americans who think he is a terrorist, they should revisit their

:42:15. > :42:23.own history of funding the IRA for years. Keep those coming in, you can

:42:24. > :42:26.e-mail us will send a message on Twitter. Time for the latest weather

:42:27. > :42:38.now with Stav. You do not need me to tell you what

:42:39. > :42:43.a lovely weekend it was, lots of sunshine around, so many weather

:42:44. > :42:47.pictures as well, this is a glorious one from Dorset, clear blue skies,

:42:48. > :42:56.people wearing their jackets on the beach. It did have a bit of a nip in

:42:57. > :43:01.the air, the temperature, and I... But lots of sunshine around, high

:43:02. > :43:05.pressure dominating. For the rest of the week, high pressure will be

:43:06. > :43:09.dominating the scene, lots of dry weather to come, mainly dry, I

:43:10. > :43:13.should say. A little light rain in the middle part of the week where

:43:14. > :43:19.cloud is thick enough. The Knights will continue to be chillier. A huge

:43:20. > :43:23.area of high pressure dominating across the North Sea, and you will

:43:24. > :43:29.notice tightly packed ice bars in the South, a nagging easterly breeze

:43:30. > :43:32.across southern areas, that was taking the edge off temperatures,

:43:33. > :43:38.and we will see that throughout the week. Once the cloud burns away this

:43:39. > :43:49.morning, nine, maybe 10 Celsius, lots of sunshine around. It is going

:43:50. > :43:52.to feel fairly pleasant in the sun. The best of the temperatures,

:43:53. > :43:55.western parts of Northern Ireland, northern and western Scotland,

:43:56. > :43:59.shelter from the easterly breeze with all that sunshine continuing.

:44:00. > :44:05.That is how it is looking into the evening, many places having a lovely

:44:06. > :44:08.end to the day, but further west, with light winds, temperatures

:44:09. > :44:12.falling away, and a low cloud and mist rolling in off the North Sea

:44:13. > :44:16.towards eastern areas. Do not be surprised if you see temperatures

:44:17. > :44:23.dipping below freezing into the Glens of Scotland as well. Closer to

:44:24. > :44:30.the East Coast, colder. A chilly start to Tuesday, mist in the West

:44:31. > :44:34.will burn away, a definite east and west split, central and eastern

:44:35. > :44:39.areas holding onto the cloud. Parts of western Scotland could make 17

:44:40. > :44:43.Celsius, watch that space, maybe 15 for Northern Ireland. Eastern

:44:44. > :44:51.Scotland, low cloud, quite chilly and grey. Further west, western

:44:52. > :44:55.Wales and the south-west of England, again, the best of the sunshine, so

:44:56. > :44:58.feeling quite warm we have the sunshine. Certainly cooler across

:44:59. > :45:06.eastern areas, where we hang on to the breeze and cloud. A spot of

:45:07. > :45:08.light rain or drizzle through central and eastern parts, more

:45:09. > :45:12.sunshine pushing in towards the south of the country, as well as the

:45:13. > :45:17.north-west corner of the UK. Into the latter part of the week, high

:45:18. > :45:20.pressure drifting northwards and westwards, allowing northerly winds

:45:21. > :45:24.to move in from the north, bringing in slightly cooler air. It looks

:45:25. > :45:29.like it will turn cooler towards the end of the week. But high pressure

:45:30. > :45:33.still dominates, set to stay fine and dry. That is your forecast.

:45:34. > :45:36.It's ten, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:45:37. > :45:40.In an exclusive interview a British man jailed in the US for supporting

:45:41. > :45:42.the Taliban online tells us he was naive, and regrets his

:45:43. > :45:53.My advocating support of the Taliban was to help establish an Islamic

:45:54. > :46:05.Babar Ahmad also says so-called Islamic State are "alien"

:46:06. > :46:08.to his heritage and beliefs - and talks for the first time

:46:09. > :46:10.about his relationship with Labour's London mayoral

:46:11. > :46:18.Watch the full interview throughout the programme this morning.

:46:19. > :46:26.Turkish warplanes have hit Kurdish rebel targets in northern Iraq after

:46:27. > :46:29.a car bomb exploded in the capital Ankara yesterday, killing 37 people.

:46:30. > :46:34.We will talk to people in the capital this morning.

:46:35. > :46:36.Chris Evans has apologised "unreservedly" after scenes

:46:37. > :46:46.for the new Top Gear were filmed near the Cenotaph

:46:47. > :46:55.tragedy of the Germanwings crash, we speak to the father of one of three

:46:56. > :46:56.British people killed. He is calling for changes to mental health care

:46:57. > :47:01.for pilots. Turkish warplanes have hit Kurdish

:47:02. > :47:14.rebel targets in northern Iraq after a car bomb killed

:47:15. > :47:17.37 in the capital They are blaming the PKK Kurdish

:47:18. > :47:36.group for the attack. Babar Ahmad tells this programme he

:47:37. > :47:38.was naive and regrets his actions. We will bring you more of the

:47:39. > :47:44.interview through the programme. The party of German Chancellor

:47:45. > :47:46.Angela Merkel has been defeated in two out of three states

:47:47. > :47:48.in regional elections, in what's being seen as a sharp

:47:49. > :47:51.rebuke to its policy of welcoming Chris Evans has apologised

:47:52. > :47:54."unreservedly" after scenes for the new Top Gear

:47:55. > :47:59.were filmed near the Cenotaph It was seen as disrespectful

:48:00. > :48:06.to the Armed Forces. In the last hour a joint European

:48:07. > :48:09.and Russian rocket mission has A satellite will try and trace

:48:10. > :48:25.the source of methane And now the sport. England were

:48:26. > :48:29.crowned Six Nations champions and would not even on the pitch, the

:48:30. > :48:34.hard work was done by Scotland to beat France for the first time in a

:48:35. > :48:38.decade at Murrayfield which means England are Six Nations champions

:48:39. > :48:43.with a game to spare. They have not won the title since 2011. England

:48:44. > :48:48.will play France next weekend and victory would give them five out of

:48:49. > :48:53.five victories. It is nice to win the championship. I think as a team

:48:54. > :48:56.we feel we have not achieved what we want to achieve and that is the

:48:57. > :49:01.grand slam. Dylan Hartley bumped into you. We did not know whether to

:49:02. > :49:04.shake hands, or get on with business, so we shook hands, decided

:49:05. > :49:11.what we would do tonight and the rest of week. Keeping the same group

:49:12. > :49:15.of players they can win the tournament for many years because

:49:16. > :49:19.they have quality and are well organised. Eddie Jones brings his

:49:20. > :49:25.confidence. The English victory over Wales on Saturday was not without

:49:26. > :49:29.controversy with England's Joe Marler apologising to Wales player

:49:30. > :49:41.Samson Lee for allegedly calling him a Gypsy boy. Hey, Gypsy boy! As you

:49:42. > :49:45.can hear, the words are pretty clear. We can speak to our rugby

:49:46. > :49:52.reporter Chris Jones. What is the fallout likely to be? The Six

:49:53. > :49:57.Nations authorities are investigating. It is unprecedented.

:49:58. > :50:03.They are taking time to collate evidence. Joe Marler apologised to

:50:04. > :50:08.Samson Lee at half-time and Samson Lee has spoken openly in the past

:50:09. > :50:13.about his Romany heritage and the England coach Eddie Jones gave Joe

:50:14. > :50:17.Marler a dressing down and reminded him of his responsibility as an

:50:18. > :50:23.England player. The WRU said they were disappointed by the comment.

:50:24. > :50:28.The Six Nations authorities might still act, it falls under a

:50:29. > :50:33.regulation, verbal abuse of players based on religion, race, colour,

:50:34. > :50:39.national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise. The entry

:50:40. > :50:46.point for this is four weeks and if Joe Marler is cited, and if he is

:50:47. > :50:50.found guilty, he could be facing a ban and will miss the England game

:50:51. > :50:57.against France in Paris. Thanks for joining us. We will give you the

:50:58. > :51:01.latest when we have it. 14 time grand slam champion Rafael Nadal

:51:02. > :51:06.said he will sue the former French government then as to who claimed

:51:07. > :51:12.his absence from tennis in 2012 was probably due to a positive doping

:51:13. > :51:17.test. Rafael Nadal claims he has let allegations go not challenged in the

:51:18. > :51:24.past but the once minister for health and sport cannot be ignored.

:51:25. > :51:29.It hurts, the comments from a person who should be serious because he was

:51:30. > :51:35.a minister of the big country and great country like France. I will

:51:36. > :51:38.sue her and I will sue everybody who comment something similar in the

:51:39. > :51:45.future because I am tired of it. Strong words. It does not affect his

:51:46. > :51:47.tennis, he is through to the third round at Indian Wells. I will have

:51:48. > :51:50.the headlines at 10:30am. Now back to our main

:51:51. > :51:52.story this morning. A British IT support worker jailed

:51:53. > :51:55.over a website considered to be a key moment in the birth

:51:56. > :51:58.of the internet jihad claims he was hooded by the

:51:59. > :52:00.Metropolitan Police - Now back to our main

:52:01. > :52:06.story this morning. Babar Ahmad pleaded guilty to two

:52:07. > :52:11.counts of providing material support to terrorism and was sentenced

:52:12. > :52:13.to twelve and a half The 41-year-old had fought a record

:52:14. > :52:16.eight-year-long campaign Two articles posted

:52:17. > :52:20.on a website he founded - urged Muslims to send money

:52:21. > :52:26.and equipment to the Taliban, who at the time were harbouring

:52:27. > :52:28.Osama Bin Laden and Although the offences

:52:29. > :52:34.were committed in the UK - US authorities argued that

:52:35. > :52:39.because the website was hosted on a US server it made its contents

:52:40. > :52:44.subject to American law. In his first interview

:52:45. > :52:47.since his release from a high security American prison eight

:52:48. > :52:50.months ago Babar Ahmad tell us: He was naive to support the Taliban

:52:51. > :52:55.and now regrets his actions. He alleges MI5 have tried

:52:56. > :53:04.to recruit him several times He says he wants to stop young

:53:05. > :53:07.Muslims being attracted And he calls run apology from the

:53:08. > :53:18.Met police over his treatment. In the second part of the interview

:53:19. > :53:19.he tells us about the time he spent time in a high security jail in the

:53:20. > :53:21.US. I wonder, when you look back

:53:22. > :53:24.at the websites now, do you acknowledge

:53:25. > :53:29.that the Azzam websites were effectively the start

:53:30. > :53:32.of cyber jihadism? The kind of images,

:53:33. > :53:37.the kind of postings, have now been adopted

:53:38. > :53:40.and are used in a very different way, perhaps even

:53:41. > :53:42.in a much more gruesome and sophisticated way by groups

:53:43. > :53:44.like so-called Islamic I don't think so because the Azzam

:53:45. > :53:55.websites were predominantly focused on the conflicts happening

:53:56. > :53:58.in Bosnia and Chechnya. Where foreign invading

:53:59. > :54:03.armies had invaded a Muslim country and they

:54:04. > :54:07.were killing civilians. What's happening today

:54:08. > :54:12.is people are killing civilians and then they are filming

:54:13. > :54:16.it and putting it on TV. It's like the complete

:54:17. > :54:18.opposite of what the One of the tapes that your website

:54:19. > :54:32.hosted and you narrated was called In The Heart Of The Green Birds,

:54:33. > :54:36.and it had stories as you've just explained of battles in Bosnia

:54:37. > :54:38.and people who were killed. Years later that tape was found

:54:39. > :54:41.in possession of some And even now, there are quotes

:54:42. > :54:51.from that cassette in social media posts from British men

:54:52. > :54:53.fighting for so-called Islamic I think ultimately

:54:54. > :54:58.I'll say what David He said the responsibility

:54:59. > :55:03.of those who murder innocent people lies

:55:04. > :55:10.with them themselves. I've heard this cassette,

:55:11. > :55:12.some of the London bombers I've also heard that there

:55:13. > :55:17.were articles from the BBC News website found on their

:55:18. > :55:20.computers, for example. We don't know, we can't say exactly

:55:21. > :55:22.what they reason was, But to say that someone hears a tape

:55:23. > :55:30.about heroes who gave their lives protecting innocent

:55:31. > :55:33.people in Bosnia and then they use that as a motivation to kill

:55:34. > :55:38.innocent people on the streets of London, you need quite a lot

:55:39. > :55:43.of mental gymnastics to get What would you say to young

:55:44. > :55:53.British Muslim men and women, who like you did 20 years ago,

:55:54. > :55:57.felt really angry about the way some Muslims were being treated

:55:58. > :55:59.in parts of the world? It's not a crime to feel outraged

:56:00. > :56:07.and injustice at what's happening. But ultimately we are

:56:08. > :56:13.responsible for our actions. And it's important that before

:56:14. > :56:20.people decide to take a course of action, before you translate your

:56:21. > :56:25.outrage into action, think deeply and carefully

:56:26. > :56:29.about what you are doing and don't Don't allow yourself to be

:56:30. > :56:38.used by other people. Don't let other people bully

:56:39. > :56:41.you that the only way to Paradise is by bringing misery

:56:42. > :56:43.upon innocent people Make your own mind up,

:56:44. > :56:50.be smart, be intelligent, do your research and

:56:51. > :56:52.make your own mind up. And what if those young people

:56:53. > :56:58.make their own mind up and think, actually,

:56:59. > :57:01.I'm going to go and join Islamic Well, if that is what

:57:02. > :57:08.they are going to do, as long as they understand the risks

:57:09. > :57:11.they are taking to their own lives, they could end up in prison,

:57:12. > :57:14.they could end up disabled, I've been in a war and I've been

:57:15. > :57:23.on battlefields and no one should be under any illusion that

:57:24. > :57:29.war is some kind of glorified thing that you see in a video with music

:57:30. > :57:32.in the background and it's Before you decide to

:57:33. > :57:40.put yourself into that situation where, OK,

:57:41. > :57:42.if you are killed you might be lucky, you might lose your

:57:43. > :57:45.eyesight, you might be disabled, you might be

:57:46. > :57:47.caught and imprisoned Something might happen

:57:48. > :57:53.to members of your family. Sometimes in people's eagerness

:57:54. > :58:03.to want to do something they fail to understand the risks

:58:04. > :58:05.of what they are actually getting themselves into, and I

:58:06. > :58:09.think it's important Would you be emphatic

:58:10. > :58:16.and say, "Don't go and join I would be emphatic in saying that

:58:17. > :58:31.foreign complex and complicated. Or do not go and join a group

:58:32. > :58:38.of people for whom there is no I would be really

:58:39. > :58:41.emphatic in saying that. How would you describe

:58:42. > :58:42.so-called Islamic From what I've heard,

:58:43. > :58:51.getting people and journalists and cutting their heads

:58:52. > :58:56.off on TV, I don't Jihad is something in Islamic

:58:57. > :59:05.history and heritage and beliefs. It's a noble act that is meant

:59:06. > :59:08.to protect and defend innocent When terror and misery

:59:09. > :59:17.is brought to people under the label of jihad,

:59:18. > :59:20.God knows what it is, but no God tolerates terror

:59:21. > :59:24.and misery being brought to innocent people on behalf of

:59:25. > :59:27.some sort of cause. Some people might see

:59:28. > :59:30.what happened to you, held for eight years in the UK

:59:31. > :59:33.without trial before being extradited to the States

:59:34. > :59:36.as a reason to be outraged. The problem is not just outrage

:59:37. > :59:49.and is not just people in the Muslim community that were outraged over

:59:50. > :59:51.what happened to me. The problem is, what do

:59:52. > :59:56.you do with that outrage? Yes, bad things happened to me,

:59:57. > :00:02.but good things also And there was a balance

:00:03. > :00:06.in the way that I was And I was mistreated

:00:07. > :00:14.and I was treated very bad. But ultimately I received some

:00:15. > :00:16.semblance of justice You spent eight years fighting

:00:17. > :00:25.extradition to the United States. You argued that you should be

:00:26. > :00:29.tried in a UK court. If you had been tried in Britain

:00:30. > :00:31.instead of the States, would you have pleaded not guilty?

:00:32. > :00:34.Absolutely. If I had been put on trial in this

:00:35. > :00:40.country, as I was asking for eight years, I would have absolutely

:00:41. > :00:44.pleaded not guilty, because at most

:00:45. > :00:48.I was facing a sentence of about two years of which I would

:00:49. > :00:52.do half if I was found guilty. During the supermax prison

:00:53. > :00:55.in America for two years I lived through complete hell and those

:00:56. > :00:58.two years were the darkest Every minute of every day,

:00:59. > :01:02.from the moment you wake up to the moment you go

:01:03. > :01:05.to sleep, was a struggle, was a battle, if you

:01:06. > :01:07.can sleep, that is. I saw one suicide attempt

:01:08. > :01:10.a week, three suicide Inmates who had gone crazy,

:01:11. > :01:17.and they were just bang the doors and shout and scream

:01:18. > :01:20.all day and all night. At that point I'd been in prison

:01:21. > :01:23.nine and a half years without trial, I'm far away

:01:24. > :01:27.from home in a foreign country and prosecutors come to me and said,

:01:28. > :01:34."Hey, plead guilty So, any person in their right mind

:01:35. > :01:42.would just sign on the dotted line. I want to make it clear,

:01:43. > :01:48.I'm not taking that back, it was the best decision of my life

:01:49. > :01:51.and I'm proud I made that decision. But at that time I didn't care

:01:52. > :01:54.what anyone thought of me. I just wanted to get

:01:55. > :01:57.back to my family. And here I am, so I'm glad

:01:58. > :02:02.I made the right decision. Talk to us about two years'

:02:03. > :02:08.solitary confinement. Describe what that actually means

:02:09. > :02:16.in practical terms first of all. It means you are in your cell for

:02:17. > :02:23.23 to 24 hours a day by yourself. You are let out for an hour

:02:24. > :02:29.in an underground concrete pit, where you can't see

:02:30. > :02:33.into the distance. If something is bothering you,

:02:34. > :02:35.you can't talk to anyone, you can't text anyone,

:02:36. > :02:41.you can't shout at anyone. You just have to be alone

:02:42. > :02:46.with your thoughts How I would talk to other inmates

:02:47. > :02:54.is through the sink. I would get a toilet roll cardboard

:02:55. > :02:57.insert and blow the water out from the sink and one person

:02:58. > :03:08.listens and the other person speaks. For me to go to sleep,

:03:09. > :03:11.it would take me five pairs of socks and an empty

:03:12. > :03:14.shampoo bottle because of the noise. I would get the pairs of socks,

:03:15. > :03:16.using the plastic spork, squeeze it in through

:03:17. > :03:19.the gaps all over the door. And then there was a vent that

:03:20. > :03:22.would blow air from the bottom, and if you balanced

:03:23. > :03:25.the shampoo bottle at the right angle with some books,

:03:26. > :03:27.it would generate a white noise, and your brain can

:03:28. > :03:29.cut that out and it drowns out the banging

:03:30. > :03:33.that is all around you. But then, three or four times

:03:34. > :03:36.in the night you would wake up when shampoo bottle falls,

:03:37. > :03:39.and the banging would wake you up. For two years I never

:03:40. > :03:44.got a full night's sleep. I remember there was

:03:45. > :03:47.an inmate next to me, Going past the cell,

:03:48. > :03:55.there was so much blood in there, it was like

:03:56. > :04:00.a butcher's shop. After I got back, I went

:04:01. > :04:02.to the butcher's shop and straightaway it took me to that

:04:03. > :04:06.memory of the blood in that cell. Even now when I go into a butcher's

:04:07. > :04:09.shop, I can smell the blood. Those were very dark

:04:10. > :04:13.days, I won't lie to you to somehow embellish it,

:04:14. > :04:16.those were the darkest years of my life and during that

:04:17. > :04:18.period I would have done absolutely anything to get out

:04:19. > :04:22.of that place and to get home and I'm glad I made

:04:23. > :04:28.the right decision and I'm home. What has that kind of experience

:04:29. > :04:33.done to your mind? I've been getting help,

:04:34. > :04:42.professional help. For? For trauma, treatment to basically

:04:43. > :04:45.help me deal with six years in isolation, including two years

:04:46. > :04:50.in solitary confinement. than I was when

:04:51. > :04:54.I got home seven months ago. I've calmed down a lot,

:04:55. > :04:57.I'm able to sleep better, I'm a bit less vigilant

:04:58. > :05:00.of my surroundings, But I think it's made me

:05:01. > :05:13.a stronger person. Do you have post-traumatic

:05:14. > :05:16.stress disorder as a result of those experiences?

:05:17. > :05:20.Yes. The trauma treatment has helped,

:05:21. > :05:29.yes. I've been doing it for several

:05:30. > :05:33.months now, and it has helped. Most of the PTSD was arising from

:05:34. > :05:38.what the police did to me back in 2003, and being

:05:39. > :05:41.in isolation for several years, including solitary confinement,

:05:42. > :05:43.it actually aggravated that. But the treatment

:05:44. > :05:48.has helped a great deal, yes. What are your thoughts

:05:49. > :05:52.towards the US authorities now? I'm obviously not happy

:05:53. > :05:59.about what they did to me. But I'm not angry or bitter

:06:00. > :06:04.over what they did to me. I remember a line that

:06:05. > :06:07.Nelson Mandela said when he walked towards the prison

:06:08. > :06:17.gate when he was released. He said, "I knew that if

:06:18. > :06:19.I did not leave my bitterness and hatred behind,

:06:20. > :06:22.then I would still be in prison." but I've also released them,

:06:23. > :06:28.if that makes sense. When you were extradited

:06:29. > :06:31.to the States, you were hooded, I understand,

:06:32. > :06:36.as you were led to the plane. When I got to the Royal Air Force

:06:37. > :06:50.base, it was actually Metropolitan Police officers that

:06:51. > :06:52.first applied a blacked-out ski mask and earmuffs to me before

:06:53. > :07:00.I left the police van. "I'm sorry, mate, but we need

:07:01. > :07:04.to put these on you." you know you are not allowed

:07:05. > :07:09.to do this?" "Blindfolding is banned in Europe,

:07:10. > :07:11.you're not allowed to do this." And he said, "I'm really sorry,

:07:12. > :07:14.it's the Americans, and that's the way

:07:15. > :07:16.they want it done The Metropolitan Police officers

:07:17. > :07:22.were scared. And this was at

:07:23. > :07:32.a Royal Air Force base So they put these blacked-out

:07:33. > :07:37.ski mask goggles on me and these earmuffs and led me

:07:38. > :07:40.with handcuffs to this building. And then thereafter

:07:41. > :07:42.I was handed over to the Americans. And then the Americans

:07:43. > :07:44.did the same, they blindfolded me and put earmuffs

:07:45. > :07:51.on me and put me in full shackles before they led me

:07:52. > :07:53.to the private jet and I stayed like that

:07:54. > :07:56.for the first hour of the flight. When I landed, I think an hour

:07:57. > :07:59.or two when I landed, they put me back in

:08:00. > :08:04.blindfolds and earmuffs. Why did they do that?

:08:05. > :08:08.I don't know. But after I complained

:08:09. > :08:11.to the British Consulate in Boston, they contacted the Foreign Office,

:08:12. > :08:14.and the Foreign Office contacted the United

:08:15. > :08:15.States Government, I think the next person

:08:16. > :08:21.who was extradited after me, Now you're back, I wonder

:08:22. > :08:30.if you think you are being monitored by MI5?

:08:31. > :08:33.I hope not. I think MI5 have a lot more things

:08:34. > :08:35.on their plate than to be following me,

:08:36. > :08:41.or monitoring me. and asked me if I'm interested

:08:42. > :08:46.in working for them. I've told them I'm not a rat,

:08:47. > :08:49.that's not who I am. Since I've been back, a few times.

:08:50. > :08:55.How many times? They've called me, they haven't

:08:56. > :08:59.been aggressive, they've been polite and courteous to me,

:09:00. > :09:02.and they've asked me and they've respected my decision that I do not

:09:03. > :09:05.wish to work for them, You said you wouldn't do it

:09:06. > :09:10.because you are not a rat. What do you mean?

:09:11. > :09:13.That's not who I am. I'm not a spy, an informant

:09:14. > :09:15.who goes into communities and his things and tells

:09:16. > :09:18.other people about it. Most people in the world

:09:19. > :09:21.are not like that. The intelligence services

:09:22. > :09:25.occupy a dark world, and I think it changes them

:09:26. > :09:30.as people. Some of them become dark people

:09:31. > :09:33.because of the work they do. I have no desire to be

:09:34. > :09:38.part of that world. Many, many people

:09:39. > :09:40.supported your wish, your desire to be tried

:09:41. > :09:42.here in the UK. What did you think

:09:43. > :09:47.of that level of support? I received over 10,000 letters

:09:48. > :09:52.from members of the public who shared their lives with me

:09:53. > :09:55.and gave me hope. calling for me to be put on trial

:09:56. > :10:02.in this country. Because I had no choice

:10:03. > :10:08.but to try and survive my ordeal. But every single one of them

:10:09. > :10:12.had a choice. and they went out of their way

:10:13. > :10:20.to support me - I'm touched by that. I didn't want to do it

:10:21. > :10:34.as soon as I got back. The last six or seven months,

:10:35. > :10:37.now I think I'm sort of ready to start talking

:10:38. > :10:50.about my experience, I feel I have a message

:10:51. > :10:52.that perhaps some people may want to hear and

:10:53. > :10:55.some might benefit from. Thank you very much

:10:56. > :11:17.for talking to us. Peter on Facebook, naive? No,

:11:18. > :11:23.stupid. How could he not have been aware of the restrictions that the

:11:24. > :11:27.Taliban is placed on ordinary Afghans. If he means what he is

:11:28. > :11:33.saying, we all make mistakes, but you cannot blame people for doubting

:11:34. > :11:38.him. Another tweet, yes, he was naive, but it was before 9/11, how

:11:39. > :11:42.can he be guilty and of what? He helped the oppressed of Bosnia and

:11:43. > :11:46.advocated full support in Chechnya. Why hasn't Britain acknowledged

:11:47. > :11:53.that? Barber Ahmad is a hero, he gave his life to defend the innocent

:11:54. > :12:00.people of Bosnia. Why give this man more exposure? He should be jailed.

:12:01. > :12:04.From Paul, so much time devoted to a terrorist, so little time for our

:12:05. > :12:12.Armed Forces, no bias by the BBC, then, shameful! This voice is much

:12:13. > :12:15.needed in today's world, he has emerged unbitter, just what is

:12:16. > :12:21.needed to build bridges between communities at this critical

:12:22. > :12:24.juncture. And another one on Facebook, the treatment of Babar

:12:25. > :12:28.Ahmad by British secure the forces is nothing sort of criminal, his

:12:29. > :12:37.only crime was to be a Muslim during the war on terror, there must be

:12:38. > :12:40.justice. You can watch the full one-hour class version of the

:12:41. > :12:44.interview on the BBC News YouTube page.

:12:45. > :12:46.We asked the Metropolitan Police for comment regarding Babar Ahmad's

:12:47. > :12:48.allegation of hooding by one of their officers.

:12:49. > :12:50.They told us, "No complaint regarding Mr Ahmad's treatment

:12:51. > :12:52.during his extradition has been received by

:12:53. > :12:55.We approached MI5 about Babar Ahmad's claim

:12:56. > :12:58.that they tried to recruit him, but they had no comment to add.

:12:59. > :13:00.Chris Evans has apologised "unreservedly" after scenes

:13:01. > :13:03.for the new series of Top Gear were filmed near the Cenotaph

:13:04. > :13:06.He's also said the footage will definitely not be shown

:13:07. > :13:22.I think the images look terrible, so disrespectful. There are mitigating

:13:23. > :13:25.circumstances, but absolutely, I unreservedly apologise. I saw the

:13:26. > :13:31.images this morning, and I felt the same way as everybody else. Not a

:13:32. > :13:36.good start of our Top Gear? Well, it has already started, but this is not

:13:37. > :13:41.a good story, no. Will the footage be used on air? I am not responsible

:13:42. > :13:45.for the film, but I will find out what is going on. That would and

:13:46. > :13:53.will definitely not go on air, no question. That was a little bit

:13:54. > :13:56.miffed. I didn't say that, I was away with my family all weekend. I

:13:57. > :14:01.have seen the tweet this morning, I think it was more light-hearted. So

:14:02. > :14:09.you would pull the plug? It is not my decision, but if it was, I would

:14:10. > :14:14.say that particular scene should not be shown. I talked, before I went on

:14:15. > :14:19.air, I heard about it on radio 4 this morning, then I looked at the

:14:20. > :14:24.papers, and then I called Alex, the series producer, then Alex called

:14:25. > :14:31.his superior, and then Matt called me as well. We are all mortified by

:14:32. > :14:32.it, 100% should not be shown. So the message is an apology? Google

:14:33. > :14:38.completely, unreservedly. Show host Matt LeBlanc

:14:39. > :14:40.and a professional driver performed stunts near to the war

:14:41. > :14:42.memorial in Whitehall, Top Gear says the filming took place

:14:43. > :14:46.around 40 metres away, Marc Ashdown is here, what were they

:14:47. > :15:01.doing? They have been filming for a while

:15:02. > :15:05.and this was Matt LeBlanc, the co-host, by Cenotaph. They shot of

:15:06. > :15:15.Whitehall. He and a rally driver were driving a 840 horsepower

:15:16. > :15:21.Mustang. We are told they were performing doughnuts. That is where

:15:22. > :15:25.you put the car, spinning round fast, loud, screeching tyres and

:15:26. > :15:30.rubber marks all over the road, and it led to complaints, the most

:15:31. > :15:34.serious articulated by a former British military commander who

:15:35. > :15:40.accused them of disrespecting the Cenotaph and Britain's war dead. He

:15:41. > :15:44.said it was a poor decision to use a war memorial for what he called a

:15:45. > :15:47.boy racer stunt. Westminster Council gave permission to film, the

:15:48. > :15:53.programme say, and these pictures do not show how close he was to the

:15:54. > :15:58.Cenotaph. There were complaints yesterday. Matt LeBlanc filmed at St

:15:59. > :16:02.Paul's Cathedral and gate-crashed the wedding. The BBC had 20

:16:03. > :16:08.complaints yesterday before the pictures were on the front pages.

:16:09. > :16:12.This is, of course, in Downing Street, and George Osborne took to

:16:13. > :16:15.social media to complain about the noise, asking them to keep it down

:16:16. > :16:20.because he was trying to work on the budget. The other complaint about

:16:21. > :16:25.the Cenotaph is more serious and there are calls for an enquiry into

:16:26. > :16:32.how filming got permission. Sarah treated us. We can talk to her. How

:16:33. > :16:39.you? I am outraged and disgusted, as are many people. Even with Chris

:16:40. > :16:44.Evans' apology? Absolutely. Matt LeBlanc should be apologising. He

:16:45. > :16:49.should not be hiding behind Chris Evans, who in defence of himself, he

:16:50. > :16:55.was away. Surely he should be able to rely on his co-presenter to do a

:16:56. > :17:02.professional job and regarding the vicinity of the Cenotaph, the

:17:03. > :17:08.Cenotaph is there. As I said, the Cenotaph is interwoven into the

:17:09. > :17:13.fabric of our society and identity. As a United Kingdom and as an

:17:14. > :17:18.American, one of the Allies, he should be aware. He should not need

:17:19. > :17:28.to have it pointed out. I march at the Cenotaph, as do many people, in

:17:29. > :17:32.November. I can tell you every day is Remembrance Day. I had the honour

:17:33. > :17:36.of marching with the American families who had lost their loved

:17:37. > :17:42.ones in different campaigns, and the respect they showed and eagerness to

:17:43. > :17:47.do what is right, because they understood the importance of what

:17:48. > :17:52.this is. The military, we are a family, and as a family, we are

:17:53. > :17:58.disgusted. You have lost someone in Iraq. I lost my brother. Which makes

:17:59. > :18:06.it clear why you are so passionate about this this morning. Yes. One

:18:07. > :18:12.could argue I am almost too close to the situation to see it clearly. But

:18:13. > :18:18.taking my brother aside, the Cenotaph, as I said, the very

:18:19. > :18:23.fabric, the history. One of the things that makes us great about

:18:24. > :18:29.being British, it is the help we have given other countries and our

:18:30. > :18:34.belief in supporting and fighting for our country and it says on the

:18:35. > :18:39.side of the Cenotaph, they died serving their country. Just as a

:18:40. > :18:45.member of the public eye and disgusted. Thanks for coming on the

:18:46. > :18:51.programme. More messages -- as a member of the public I am disgusted.

:18:52. > :18:56.One said he was looking forward to the new Top Gear but if this is an

:18:57. > :19:02.indication of what is to come I will not be watching. Another says, this

:19:03. > :19:06.is disrespected to veterans. And another said typical celebrity

:19:07. > :19:10.enlarged egos, why do we continue to tolerate this? Thanks.

:19:11. > :19:15.Coming up in the last half hour of the programme.

:19:16. > :19:17.More of the interview with a man who once

:19:18. > :19:20.supported the Taliban and was jailed in the US.

:19:21. > :19:26.And after the tragedy of the Germanwings flight

:19:27. > :19:29.that was deliberately crashed last year -

:19:30. > :19:32.we'll be speaking to the father of one of three British people killed.

:19:33. > :19:35.He's calling for changes to mental health care for pilots.

:19:36. > :19:48.Turkey's president vows to bring terrorism to its knees after 37

:19:49. > :19:59.people died in an attack in the capital Ankara. 70 people are being

:20:00. > :20:03.treated in hospital after the explosion yesterday. A car packed

:20:04. > :20:08.with explosives targeted people waiting at a bus stop. It is the

:20:09. > :20:15.third attack in the space of five months. This man saw what happened.

:20:16. > :20:22.TRANSLATION: It came next to us, a second past and there was a woman

:20:23. > :20:27.behind us and her seat catapulted. Something hit my forehead. A car

:20:28. > :20:32.exploded. The car, I think, was black. Five, six people on the bus

:20:33. > :20:37.died, I saw it. I ran away as fast as I could. Something hit my

:20:38. > :20:43.forehead and shoulder. I don't remember anything else. Turkish jets

:20:44. > :20:46.have been bombing rebels in northern Iraq and questions are asked about

:20:47. > :20:51.Turkey's ability to maintain security at a time when Europe needs

:20:52. > :20:59.Turkey's help to stem the flow of migrants passing through its

:21:00. > :21:03.borders. We can speak to a reporter from BBC Turkish. The third attack

:21:04. > :21:10.in Ankara. Is there a sense the authorities cannot stop this? For

:21:11. > :21:16.the past five months, three attacks in Ankara only and after each, we

:21:17. > :21:26.hear the president saying things like you said yesterday, bringing

:21:27. > :21:31.terror as -- terrorism to its knees. Yesterday's attack was so gruesome,

:21:32. > :21:35.directed towards the civilian population and it was an area packed

:21:36. > :21:41.with civilians trying to get back to their homes. It happened in the

:21:42. > :21:45.capital of the country and powerhouse of the government. It is

:21:46. > :21:49.creating a sense of insecurity. Thanks.

:21:50. > :21:54.Babar Ahmad, the former IT worker from London who was jailed in the US

:21:55. > :21:56.for supporting the Taliban online, tells this programme exclusively

:21:57. > :21:58.that he was naive and regrets his actions.

:21:59. > :22:05.We'll bring you the final part of that interview next.

:22:06. > :22:08.In the last hour a joint European and Russian rocket mission has

:22:09. > :22:12.A satellite will try and trace the source of methane gas

:22:13. > :22:24.And now the sport. Good morning. The headlines. Scotland beat France for

:22:25. > :22:30.the first time in a decade, winning 29-18 at Murrayfield. The Scots came

:22:31. > :22:33.back from a try against them to secure their first back-to-back Six

:22:34. > :22:40.Nations wins in three years. England's Joe Marler apologised to

:22:41. > :22:45.Wales' Samson Lee for calling him a Gypsy boy in the match. Officials

:22:46. > :22:50.are aware of the incident and are establishing the facts, they say.

:22:51. > :22:54.Grand slam champion Rafael Nadal said he will sue a former French

:22:55. > :23:00.minister for claiming his lay-off in 2012 was probably due to a positive

:23:01. > :23:04.doping test. The Spaniard won through to the third round of Indian

:23:05. > :23:09.Wells last night. FA Cup holders Arsenal have been knocked out of the

:23:10. > :23:14.competition by Watford, losing 2-1 at the emirates and what a goal that

:23:15. > :23:18.was. The first time Watford have beaten Arsenal since 1988.

:23:19. > :23:20.This morning, we've been bringing you an exclusive interview

:23:21. > :23:24.with a Babar Ahmad, a 41-year-old British IT support

:23:25. > :23:26.worker who was jailed in the United States

:23:27. > :23:29.because a website he founded posted two articles in 2001,

:23:30. > :23:37.encouraging people to raise cash, recruit fighters

:23:38. > :23:41.and send equipment to the Taliban - at a time when they were harbouring

:23:42. > :23:42.Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

:23:43. > :23:44.Babar Ahmad fought a record eight-year battle

:23:45. > :23:46.against extradition from the UK to the US.

:23:47. > :23:48.His campaign was supported by his local MP Sadiq Khan,

:23:49. > :23:50.who is now Labour's London mayoral candidate.

:23:51. > :23:53.Sadiq Khan's support of Babar Ahmad has been criticised by some,

:23:54. > :23:55.and Babar Ahmad has never commented on it before.

:23:56. > :24:02.At his sister's home, he wanted to show us a mosque

:24:03. > :24:06.he'd built from 25,000 matches whilst inside Long Lartin Prison

:24:07. > :24:10.fighting against extradition to the States.

:24:11. > :24:16.I guess out of those 11 years in prison this is worth one

:24:17. > :24:18.--where one year and four months of it went.

:24:19. > :24:25.It was all glued together and sanded by hand.

:24:26. > :24:28.These grooves here, I got a pencil and put sandpaper around it

:24:29. > :24:35.How many hours a day would you spend on this?

:24:36. > :24:39.Sometimes maybe six or seven hours a day, sometimes two hours a day.

:24:40. > :24:45.I was also busy with fighting my case.

:24:46. > :24:48.When you look at this now, now you are back home and you're

:24:49. > :24:55.free, what occurs to you in your mind?

:24:56. > :24:59.It's memories of something that was, but happily that memory had a good

:25:00. > :25:10.Tell us what what you claim happened in 2003.

:25:11. > :25:14.It was early in the morning, the house was raided by about 15,

:25:15. > :25:19.I stood up with my hands up, didn't offer any resistance.

:25:20. > :25:22.They grabbed me and put me on the floor.

:25:23. > :25:25.They put me in handcuffs, and then they just

:25:26. > :25:29.proceeded to punch me all over my body.

:25:30. > :25:33.They punched me all over my head, my ears, my back, my kidneys.

:25:34. > :25:37.One of them put his hands through my legs and grabbed my

:25:38. > :25:49.Then they took me downstairs to a room where we pray

:25:50. > :25:51.and they put me in a prostration position and started making comments

:25:52. > :25:54.about, are we allowed to wear our shoes in here?

:25:55. > :26:02.Then they took me in the van to the police station

:26:03. > :26:05.and one of the officers struck me, he punched me on my back

:26:06. > :26:13.on my kidney area about ten or 12 times.

:26:14. > :26:16.This officer put me in this chokehold and he just held

:26:17. > :26:21.So I was down on my front and my hands were in cuffs.

:26:22. > :26:25.He just held it there and then he let go, and then he did it again,

:26:26. > :26:35.He held on and held on and held on, and I just felt that

:26:36. > :26:38.this guy is going to kill me, I can't even say the Islamic

:26:39. > :26:43.declaration of faith before I die and this situation is serious,

:26:44. > :26:46.this guy is going to kill me here on the

:26:47. > :26:49.Ultimately he let go and he said, "You will remember

:26:50. > :26:52.this day for the rest of your life, you effing B."

:26:53. > :26:56.You received ?60,000 in compensation from the Met,

:26:57. > :26:59.and the then met boss Sir Paul Stephenson said

:27:00. > :27:02.you were subjected to "serious, gratuitous, prolonged,

:27:03. > :27:06.The jury later cleared four officers.

:27:07. > :27:12.The police argued that your injuries were self-inflicted,

:27:13. > :27:17.and ultimately the officers were found not guilty.

:27:18. > :27:19.Some members of the jury afterwards asked

:27:20. > :27:27.That was, I have to say, quite disheartening for them to go

:27:28. > :27:32.I did lose some faith in humanity when that happened.

:27:33. > :27:37.Do you want an apology from the police

:27:38. > :27:38.over your alleged treatment, including your claim that

:27:39. > :27:41.The hooding, I just want an acknowledgement.

:27:42. > :27:43.The police and security services have an

:27:44. > :27:52.But when they get things wrong they should have

:27:53. > :27:56.After my experience, after what I've been

:27:57. > :28:00.The Metropolitan Police gave us this statement.

:28:01. > :28:05."Allegations of mistreatment were investigated and

:28:06. > :28:08.subsequently in 2011 four officers were found not guilty of assault

:28:09. > :28:17.When evidence that was not available during the civil

:28:18. > :28:19.proceedings was produced the officers were also found to have

:28:20. > :28:21.no case to answer with regards to misconduct allegations.

:28:22. > :28:25.During the years that you were fighting

:28:26. > :28:28.extradition, your constituency MP, Labour's Sadiq Khan,

:28:29. > :28:34.who is running for Mayor of London, called for you to be tried

:28:35. > :28:37.in the UK, as did many politicians from other parties.

:28:38. > :28:39.How much support have you had from him?

:28:40. > :28:42.Sadiq Khan gave the same level of support to me that Zac Goldsmith

:28:43. > :28:44.and Boris Johnson said, which was basically that

:28:45. > :28:46.as a British citizen accused of crimes committed in this country

:28:47. > :28:54.Sadiq Khan visited you in Woodhill prison in Milton Keynes in 2005-06.

:28:55. > :28:56.The conversations were monitored, bugged, was he visiting

:28:57. > :28:58.you as a friend or a constituency MP?

:28:59. > :29:06.He was visiting me as a constituency MP.

:29:07. > :29:09.My family and lots of people here in Tooting told him to come

:29:10. > :29:12.and visit me and he just came to visit

:29:13. > :29:16.In my community anyone who is not your

:29:17. > :29:21.enemy is a friend, so in that sense he is a friend.

:29:22. > :29:25.But I've never socialised with him, I've never gone

:29:26. > :29:27.out to eat with him, or gone tenpin bowling with him.

:29:28. > :29:29.He's probably an acquaintance more than a friend,

:29:30. > :29:33.How close were you before your arrest in 2003?

:29:34. > :29:41.I remember every Saturday he used to be standing at a stall

:29:42. > :29:45.for the Labour Party on Tooting High Street.

:29:46. > :29:48.If I would see him I would go to him and shake his hand.

:29:49. > :29:50.He's just someone that I knew that I would see

:29:51. > :29:54.In an interview in the last few days Sadiq

:29:55. > :29:56.Khan said about you, "We weren't close friends

:29:57. > :30:04.Both of us are well known in Tooting for different

:30:05. > :30:11.Sadiq Khan, everyone in Tooting knows him.

:30:12. > :30:14.Have you met him since you arrived back

:30:15. > :30:17.in Britain in the last few months from jail in the States?

:30:18. > :30:19.Yes, I was travelling home on the Tube

:30:20. > :30:21.one night with my lawyer and just bumped into him

:30:22. > :30:29.Another time there was a funeral of someone in the community.

:30:30. > :30:31.I didn't really speak to him because he was helping

:30:32. > :30:41.How did he react when you saw him on the Tube?

:30:42. > :30:44.Nothing. He was polite and courteous as always.

:30:45. > :30:47.I was with my lawyer, and he met my lawyer as well.

:30:48. > :30:57.And then he got off, his stop came, and he got off at the next stop.

:30:58. > :31:03.Let me read you some comments, I love your programme absolutely, but

:31:04. > :31:09.I do not understand why you give publicity and valued time to people

:31:10. > :31:13.like Babar Ahmad. This tweet, eight years without trial or charge, that

:31:14. > :31:19.is British justice? It makes a mockery of British democracy. From

:31:20. > :31:23.Mo, incredible interview, nine years in prison, two years in solitary

:31:24. > :31:26.confinement. A convicted terrorist is pulling the wool over the liberal

:31:27. > :31:29.media's eyes. You can watch the full

:31:30. > :31:30.one-hour plus version of this interview

:31:31. > :31:33.on BBC News' YouTube page. A spokesperson for Mayor of London

:31:34. > :31:36.candidate Sadiq Khan told us, in his role as chair

:31:37. > :31:38.of the human-rights group Liberty, Sadiq Khan campaigned

:31:39. > :31:40.against the unfair UK-US extradition treaty and for Babar Ahmad

:31:41. > :31:43.to be tried in the UK. This was a campaign supported

:31:44. > :31:45.by MPs from all parties, including Boris Johnson

:31:46. > :31:48.and Zac Goldsmith. The Government has unveiled plans

:31:49. > :31:51.for a new scheme to encourage low-paid workers to save,

:31:52. > :31:53.after it emerged that almost half of UK adults had less than ?500

:31:54. > :31:56.set aside for emergencies. Let's get more on this

:31:57. > :31:58.from our political correspondent Eleanor Garnier, who is in

:31:59. > :32:04.Westminster for us now. Who is this aimed at? This is how it

:32:05. > :32:10.works, if you can save up to ?50 a month, then the Government will, in

:32:11. > :32:15.what is being called a help to save scheme, the Government will give you

:32:16. > :32:23.a 50% bonus, ?600 cash at the two years. That will mean that other two

:32:24. > :32:28.years of saving you will get ?600 cash. If you can save for another

:32:29. > :32:35.two years, you will get another ?600 top-up, so after eight o'clock four

:32:36. > :32:39.years of saving, you could end up with ?1200 completely tax-free in

:32:40. > :32:45.this Government scheme. And who is it specifically aimed at? That is

:32:46. > :32:49.the catch, I think. It is aimed at those on universal credit, but also

:32:50. > :32:52.those who get their incomes topped up by working tax credits. Some

:32:53. > :32:56.people are saying it is going to be very difficult for people on low

:32:57. > :33:00.incomes to save up this kind of money. The other thing to point out

:33:01. > :33:06.is that the amount of money, the part the Government has saved up for

:33:07. > :33:09.this, clearly shows the Government acknowledges how difficult it is

:33:10. > :33:13.going to be for people to save, because they are not expecting a

:33:14. > :33:17.100% take-up of the scheme. David Cameron's focus on helping those on

:33:18. > :33:22.low incomes to save is part of what he wants to be remembered for, what

:33:23. > :33:26.he wants his premiership to be remembered for. Remember, he talked

:33:27. > :33:28.about that all-out assault on poverty back in his conference

:33:29. > :33:33.speech last year, and the other thing to point out is that this is a

:33:34. > :33:38.little bit of voter friendly news, a little bit of good news, if you

:33:39. > :33:43.like, ahead of what the Chancellor is billing as a very difficult

:33:44. > :33:47.Budget on Wednesday. He is also pencilling more cuts and savings to

:33:48. > :33:51.come. Thank you very much. Chris Evans has apologised for using the

:33:52. > :33:56.Cenotaph as a backdrop in a new series of Top Gear and has promised

:33:57. > :34:00.the footage will not be shown. He was talking on his radio to

:34:01. > :34:05.breakfast programme this morning. What is important is what these

:34:06. > :34:09.images look like, and they look entirely disrespectful. Of course,

:34:10. > :34:13.that would never be the intention of the Top Gear team or Matt. These

:34:14. > :34:17.pictures were taken with a long lens camera from Parliament Square, but

:34:18. > :34:26.the point is that it does not look good. This message from Jeremy, I do

:34:27. > :34:29.not quite get the Top Gear farce, they are doing stunts and the

:34:30. > :34:35.Cenotaph is visible in the background. They are hardly urine

:34:36. > :34:40.aiding on it. A couple more as well, these are tweeds and messages on

:34:41. > :34:47.Facebook, Raggi says Chris Evans is just pretending to apologise, trying

:34:48. > :34:53.to push the new programme. So what if they filmed at Whitehall? Big

:34:54. > :35:00.deal. The NIMBYs should shut up. Bill says it is a storm in a teacup.

:35:01. > :35:05.We did readouts are messages from people who were offended and a young

:35:06. > :35:07.woman who lost her brother in Iraq, and she said she was outraged. -- we

:35:08. > :35:13.did read out. The father of one of three British

:35:14. > :35:16.people killed when Germanwings Flight 4U9525 was deliberately

:35:17. > :35:17.crashed into a mountain in the French Alps has

:35:18. > :35:20.told this programme that unless changes are made to mental

:35:21. > :35:22.health care for pilots, another Germanwings style

:35:23. > :35:23.crash could happen. Phil Bramley's son Paul

:35:24. > :35:25.was 28-years-old Now French investigators have called

:35:26. > :35:33.for medical confidentiality who also wants regular psychiatric

:35:34. > :35:48.tests for those flying planes. Mr Bramley, thank you for talking to

:35:49. > :35:56.us again, have you had time to absorb this report? Yes, we got the

:35:57. > :36:01.report... We were supposed to get it on Saturday, we did not get it until

:36:02. > :36:06.Sunday, and the first I heard of it and was able to comment was when the

:36:07. > :36:11.press were at the door, so I had not seen it at that point. Having read

:36:12. > :36:17.it yesterday, you have got to understand that everybody has got to

:36:18. > :36:22.understand that this is the authorities, the French authorities

:36:23. > :36:26.putting the facts forward. They are not making any accusations, just

:36:27. > :36:32.presenting people with the facts. It is the judicial review that will

:36:33. > :36:40.apportion blame all get to the people responsible to be held to

:36:41. > :36:45.account. So blaming doctors straight off, it is not the doctors who put

:36:46. > :36:52.the aircraft into the mountain, that was the pilot. I am more concerned

:36:53. > :36:56.of the way that the pilots are treated and, you know, something is

:36:57. > :37:06.done more to prevent and check on pilots to make sure that they are

:37:07. > :37:12.responsible. There is a few things I want to say. It is a bit difficult

:37:13. > :37:15.to fully explain in this situation, especially after what has happened,

:37:16. > :37:24.but one of the major points that we want to get across is the pressure

:37:25. > :37:28.that pilots are under. They go and take these... They are put into a

:37:29. > :37:36.situation of... To get their licence it can cost up to ?90,000, and they

:37:37. > :37:39.are loaned this money, and with prohibitive contracts that if they

:37:40. > :37:44.do not perform or something happens to them, they are not only looking

:37:45. > :37:54.at losing their job, they will probably be bankrupt, having to pay

:37:55. > :37:57.it back. I am concerned whether that is being underwritten by any of the

:37:58. > :38:01.relatives, and I am concerned whether the family of Andreas Tobo

:38:02. > :38:08.did not want to come forward and assist the French authorities in

:38:09. > :38:13.getting the facts. -- Andreas Lubitz. Sorry, I am probably going

:38:14. > :38:18.on a bit. Not at all. What we know from this report now is that Lubitz

:38:19. > :38:21.was referred for psychiatric hospital treatment due to possible

:38:22. > :38:24.psychosis by several doctors, and in the weeks leading up to the Cratchit

:38:25. > :38:31.had been given sick note by four doctors. -- the crash he had been

:38:32. > :38:36.given. The French authorities are calling for regular screening, is

:38:37. > :38:40.that enough for you? We test our athletes more than we test pilots,

:38:41. > :38:45.and I think they should be tested, and they would probably welcome

:38:46. > :38:50.that. It would assist. It seems strange now that one year after,

:38:51. > :38:59.because it is the memorial next week, that one year after they were

:39:00. > :39:06.going to hospitalise him in two weeks, and it is taking the high off

:39:07. > :39:12.the ball of what has gone on with what happens with pilots. Do you

:39:13. > :39:16.think there is a balance to be struck between an individual's

:39:17. > :39:21.private medical care, confidentiality, and the safety of

:39:22. > :39:27.people, passengers on planes? Or should doctors, if they have

:39:28. > :39:34.information, passage to the airline? I think they should have to sign a

:39:35. > :39:38.declaration that they allow their medical at the beginning, so they

:39:39. > :39:42.are well aware, that they should give that information freely, or the

:39:43. > :39:47.doctors should give it freely to certain people who are in positions

:39:48. > :39:55.where it is of importance for public safety. Yeah. I mean, the

:39:56. > :40:01.investigation does say that that confidentiality has to be

:40:02. > :40:05.balanced... Surely they can waver that at the beginning, if you are a

:40:06. > :40:12.doctor or a pilot, that you can waive certain types, if you are on

:40:13. > :40:19.medication, if something happens, in a particular job, then it should be

:40:20. > :40:25.passed to the company. I don't quite understand, you know, that the

:40:26. > :40:30.airline can get behind this and say, well, we did not know about it. I

:40:31. > :40:35.would like to know why his parents, his friends, relatives around him

:40:36. > :40:41.were not aware of... You know, this is not, you know, I feel a bit

:40:42. > :40:48.suicidal, this is 41 times. He had been suspended by the airline back

:40:49. > :40:57.in 2009, and they were well aware of it when he was taking all his tests

:40:58. > :41:03.and... To fly. And they have let him back in the cockpit. How can that be

:41:04. > :41:08.right? To hide behind the doctors, I am more concerned about the airline

:41:09. > :41:13.and what they should do to prevent this happening. That is... It is...

:41:14. > :41:21.It is almost a year since you lost your son, how are you doing, Phil?

:41:22. > :41:25.Not the best. This is a whole new world of pain that we are going

:41:26. > :41:35.through now. With what has happened with, you know, my stroke, yeah. I

:41:36. > :41:40.am grateful for your time this morning. Thank you very much for

:41:41. > :41:46.speaking to us. OK, they give very much, bye-bye.

:41:47. > :41:51.As you know, Chris Evans has apologised for filming some scenes

:41:52. > :41:55.in front of the Cenotaph in central London in recent days for the new

:41:56. > :42:00.Top Gear series. He has apologised and reserve and Lee. He says that

:42:01. > :42:04.they will not be shown in the new series. This e-mail from Tom, it

:42:05. > :42:08.appears that people are blowing the Top Gear filming out of all

:42:09. > :42:12.proportion. The fact that George Osborne and shows that they were

:42:13. > :42:16.probably just as close to Downing Street as the Cenotaph. I think the

:42:17. > :42:19.footage should be shown so that people can make up their own minds,

:42:20. > :42:23.because if we do not see it, Matt LeBlanc and the show will be given a

:42:24. > :42:27.bad name. This is from Miranda, we can all blame the programme for

:42:28. > :42:33.doing the stance, but I find it strange that nobody but any blame on

:42:34. > :42:38.the authorities who gave permission. Keith, come on, guys, this is just

:42:39. > :42:42.Chris Evans trying to drum up interest by looking edgy, it is

:42:43. > :42:46.truly desperate. And this e-mail from Edward, Top Gear doing stunts

:42:47. > :42:52.on public roads? Why? They always had their private test track, no

:42:53. > :42:57.reason to be on public roads. Thank you very much for your company

:42:58. > :43:01.today. So many messages today about the interview with Babar Ahmad, you

:43:02. > :43:07.can watch the full one-hour version on the BBC News YouTube page. You

:43:08. > :43:12.can watch it on our programme page as well on the BBC website. Plus,

:43:13. > :43:18.there will be a half hour special of the interview at 9:30 on BBC News

:43:19. > :43:23.tonight. I am back tomorrow, where we will be looking at how the cost

:43:24. > :43:29.of childcare for one and two -year-olds could be about to soar.

:43:30. > :43:32.If that is you, if you have got a one two -year-old, perhaps even

:43:33. > :43:36.younger, make sure you tune in tomorrow. Your message really help

:43:37. > :43:40.to inform our programme, you can contact me any time of day or night.

:43:41. > :43:44.I might not reply in the middle of the night, but I will of Ikan! Thank

:43:45. > :43:50.you very much for your company today, back tomorrow at 9:15. -- I

:43:51. > :44:01.will if I can! You and I, we're going to change

:44:02. > :44:05.this country. You run and, hopefully,

:44:06. > :44:10.win elected office. Not just for the sake of being

:44:11. > :44:13.something