12/05/2016

:00:08. > :00:09.Hello it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:10. > :00:11.in for Victoria, welcome to the programme

:00:12. > :00:15.Our top story today - The BBC's future should

:00:16. > :00:16.become clearer today, when the culture secretary reveals

:00:17. > :00:21.The licence fee will continue, and the Trust which governs

:00:22. > :00:26.What's it all mean for you, the viewers and listeners?

:00:27. > :00:32.We'll hear from lovers and haters of the BBC.

:00:33. > :00:34.Also coming up on Thursday's programme, a man who admitted

:00:35. > :00:37.uploading pictures of his sister and other women onto porn websites,

:00:38. > :00:39.causing them humiliation and distress, got a police caution.

:00:40. > :00:45.His victims have told us they don't think that's enough.

:00:46. > :00:49.It's not as if they were just put on a porn website, just photos,

:00:50. > :00:51.it was what he'd written that was more disturbing

:00:52. > :00:53.than anything, I mean, having a person walk free and be

:00:54. > :00:56.able to get on with their life, and maybe meet someone one day,

:00:57. > :01:02.and them know absolutely nothing about it, that's just scary really.

:01:03. > :01:09.They said, you know, it's OK, because he's deleted the pictures

:01:10. > :01:13.of you off his phone in front of us, so it's OK, and I was like,

:01:14. > :01:15.well, it's not OK, that's not OK that they've just been deleted,

:01:16. > :01:24.We will have that full story for you at a quarter to ten.

:01:25. > :01:26.And a little later, how much should we worry about

:01:27. > :01:32.The Prime Minister thinks we should and is hosting a conference of more

:01:33. > :01:36.One of them is Afghanistan, described by David Cameron

:01:37. > :01:50.Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

:01:51. > :01:56.We already getting lots of comments from you about our top story today,

:01:57. > :02:00.the future of the BBC. Matt on Facebook says it is time for the

:02:01. > :02:04.licence fee to go. The lavish BBC spending of our money must be

:02:05. > :02:09.curbed, but is funny to see that the BBC will be given the power for

:02:10. > :02:16.those who watch catch-up TV to pay Manny now. And a man on Twitter says

:02:17. > :02:19.the Conservatives seem to hate the two things that the British public

:02:20. > :02:21.admirer, the BBC and the NHS. we're talking about this morning -

:02:22. > :02:26.use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text,

:02:27. > :02:29.you will be charged at the standard How the BBC is governed,

:02:30. > :02:34.the length of the licence fee and more information

:02:35. > :02:36.about what its top stars earn will all be set out in a government

:02:37. > :02:39.announcement on the corporation's But it looks like controversial

:02:40. > :02:44.ideas, like restricting when the BBC should show some of its most popular

:02:45. > :02:47.programmes, have been shelved. Here's our Media Correspondent,

:02:48. > :02:49.David Sillito. The BBC is, for most of us,

:02:50. > :02:53.part of daily life, but its charter only lasts for ten years at a time,

:02:54. > :02:56.giving the government a chance to look at how it's run,

:02:57. > :02:58.how it's funded, and, What I would like to happen is for

:02:59. > :03:08.something to be bold and radical, I would like to see the licence fee

:03:09. > :03:12.scrapped, I think it has been holding back the BBC,

:03:13. > :03:18.it has been overtaken by Sky, and one day the BBC will realise

:03:19. > :03:21.it is actually holding them back. Radio, TV and online

:03:22. > :03:23.was all under review. The results are the licence fee

:03:24. > :03:30.stays for the next 11 years, but the Trust that governs

:03:31. > :03:32.the BBC will be replaced. If you want to complain

:03:33. > :03:35.about the BBC in future, the final referee will be

:03:36. > :03:37.the independent regulator, Stars' salaries will be made public,

:03:38. > :03:42.but not the exact amount, all we will know is that it's more

:03:43. > :03:45.than ?450,000, and there will be a new board running

:03:46. > :03:54.the BBC day-to-day. The debate here is who will be on

:03:55. > :03:57.it. At least half will be from the BBC,

:03:58. > :04:00.but questions have been raised If we are going to have a Board

:04:01. > :04:05.of Directors, which again is a good idea, the real essential is that

:04:06. > :04:07.that Board of Directors It should not be appointed

:04:08. > :04:11.by the government, it should be appointed by an independent

:04:12. > :04:13.commission, and they should That is what would give

:04:14. > :04:16.them their authority. However, suggestions

:04:17. > :04:19.that the government would intervene over when the BBC could show

:04:20. > :04:23.its most popular programmes, or hand licence fee money to other

:04:24. > :04:26.broadcasters, have not made it Plenty more on that story at 9.15 -

:04:27. > :04:37.but right now, Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:04:38. > :04:40.of the rest of the day's news. For the first time, foreign

:04:41. > :04:43.companies that already have, or want to buy, property in the UK

:04:44. > :04:45.will have to reveal That's just one of the measures

:04:46. > :04:51.being announced by David Cameron today at an international

:04:52. > :04:52.conference to fight global It's billed as the first

:04:53. > :05:00.of its kind, and it's already caused controversy before it's started,

:05:01. > :05:02.with the Prime Minister describing Nigeria and Afghanistan

:05:03. > :05:18.as "fantastically corrupt". David Cameron has already ensured

:05:19. > :05:22.his anti-corruption summit has grabbed the headlines, after his

:05:23. > :05:31.unguarded remarks about some of those attending.

:05:32. > :05:37.Today, he will try to gloss over that embarrassment, starting with a

:05:38. > :05:43.new announcement on stopping UK property being bought with dirty

:05:44. > :05:47.money. He is expected to announce that no foreign companies will be

:05:48. > :05:52.able to purchase property here, unless it's clear who is the overall

:05:53. > :05:56.tone of the enterprise. Crucially, though, Mr Cameron hasn't yet been

:05:57. > :06:01.able to persuade the UK linked tax havens, such as the Cayman islands

:06:02. > :06:04.and the British Virgin Islands, to embrace the same spirit of

:06:05. > :06:10.transparency, and campaigners rather wish he would fix that problem

:06:11. > :06:12.before he lectures others. There are some countries in the world that are

:06:13. > :06:17.fantastically corrupt, there were also places like the overseas

:06:18. > :06:20.territories, which have been fantastically obliging to the

:06:21. > :06:24.corrupt from those countries. So as long as we are focusing on both

:06:25. > :06:29.sides of that coin, then we have a chance of getting a really important

:06:30. > :06:33.result from this summit. Last month's release of the Panama Papers

:06:34. > :06:38.revealed just how many anonymous shell companies are used by the

:06:39. > :06:42.world's elite to hide away wealth from public view, so David Cameron

:06:43. > :06:47.may get some credit for calling this summit in the first place, but the

:06:48. > :06:50.question remains can he put the UK's own treasure islands in order too?

:06:51. > :06:53.And we'll be discussing this issue later in the programme with a legal

:06:54. > :06:59.David Cameron will NOT take part in any EU referendum TV debates

:07:00. > :07:00.with Boris Johnson or other fellow Conservatives,

:07:01. > :07:09.Number 10 say they do not want the campaign to turn into merely

:07:10. > :07:12.Meanwhile, Vote Leave - the official out campaign -

:07:13. > :07:15.has accused ITV of taking sides in the referendum battle

:07:16. > :07:18.after the broadcaster excluded them from a major TV debate and instead

:07:19. > :07:28.invited Nigel Farage to represent those who want to leave the EU.

:07:29. > :07:35.Norman Smith in Westminster, that late-night e-mail from vote leave

:07:36. > :07:42.has provoked quite the row this morning. It has prompted an

:07:43. > :07:47.explosive row, not just between the Leave campaign and ITV, but within

:07:48. > :07:52.the Brexit campaign. With claims by Nigel Farage, who has been invited

:07:53. > :07:56.to take part in that critical ITV debate, but the official leave aside

:07:57. > :08:09.her try to stop him going on that show and threatening legal action.

:08:10. > :08:12.Never mind the warning that if the official representatives of the

:08:13. > :08:15.Leave campaign, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, were not allowed to

:08:16. > :08:19.take part that would be consequences for ITV, unidentified consequences,

:08:20. > :08:25.that it has exposed I think two things. One is the real Gulf

:08:26. > :08:30.rippling through the Leave side, but secondly, the concerns the official

:08:31. > :08:34.campaign have about the sort of impact Nigel Farage would have.

:08:35. > :08:39.Their fear that if he is allowed to present himself as the main face of

:08:40. > :08:43.the Brexit campaign, it will alienate many voters. Secondly,

:08:44. > :08:48.another huge row are erupting over David Cameron's decision not to take

:08:49. > :08:53.part or not to debate against Boris Johnson. Mr Johnson's friends saying

:08:54. > :08:57.this morning, look, he stands ready to debate against David Cameron. It

:08:58. > :09:02.is not up to David Cameron to decide who he will choose to debate

:09:03. > :09:05.against. Boris Johnson is one of the leading figures of the official

:09:06. > :09:08.Leave campaign, he should be prepared to debate against him.

:09:09. > :09:11.A British man has been arrested on suspicion of killing his

:09:12. > :09:12.wife and mother-in-law, after they were found dead

:09:13. > :09:15.Dave McCann, who's 49, allegedly stabbed his wife

:09:16. > :09:18.and her mother to death, before threatening his sister-in-law.

:09:19. > :09:21.It's believed that he forced his way into the family home on Saturday -

:09:22. > :09:24.before going into hiding for four days at a homeless

:09:25. > :09:31.Two pieces of debris found on beaches in Mauritius

:09:32. > :09:34.and South Africa almost certainly came from the Malaysia Airlines

:09:35. > :09:38.flight MH370, according to officials in Malaysia.

:09:39. > :09:40.It's the latest development in efforts to solve the mystery

:09:41. > :09:43.of the aircraft, which went missing in March 2014.

:09:44. > :09:45.The plane was flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing,

:09:46. > :10:01.and had 239 people on board, when it vanished.

:10:02. > :10:04.A new report says girls born this year will be 75 per cent more likely

:10:05. > :10:07.to study for a degree than their male classmates -

:10:08. > :10:09.unless action is taken to address the growing university gender gap.

:10:10. > :10:12.The study - from the Higher Education Policy Institute -

:10:13. > :10:14.also says white boys from poorer backgrounds are drastically

:10:15. > :10:17.Here's our Education Correspondent Robert Piggott.

:10:18. > :10:19.A lower proportion of students entering universities and colleges

:10:20. > :10:25.This year, almost 100,000 fewer men than women applied for places,

:10:26. > :10:27.and eight out of ten higher education institutions now

:10:28. > :10:36.Girls are already 35% more likely to go to university than boys,

:10:37. > :10:56.but if the current trend continues unabated, that will rise to 75%.

:10:57. > :10:58.A failure to tackle the gap would undermine attempts

:10:59. > :11:01.Disadvantaged white boys have the worst record.

:11:02. > :11:03.Fewer than nine in a hundred go to university.

:11:04. > :11:05.The report said the education system was letting boys down,

:11:06. > :11:07.and suggested targeting them with recruitment campaigns, showing

:11:08. > :11:13.It is said one reason for the gender difference could be that careers

:11:14. > :11:16.traditionally chosen by women, such as nursing and teaching,

:11:17. > :11:18.increasingly demand full degrees, but across most of the developed

:11:19. > :11:20.world, recent trends in higher education have left male

:11:21. > :11:29.The universities minister, Jo Johnson, said recent guidance

:11:30. > :11:31.to universities called for special help for white boys

:11:32. > :11:42.The Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump appears

:11:43. > :11:44.to have softened his stance on his proposal for a temporary ban

:11:45. > :11:50.During his campaign, Mr Trump had said the

:11:51. > :11:54.But in an interview with Fox News, Mr Trump claimed it was

:11:55. > :12:09.The proposed ban has been widely criticised in the US and abroad.

:12:10. > :12:15.A 23-year-old man has been charged with the murder of a soldier in

:12:16. > :12:19.Brecon, in mid Wales. Private Matthew Boyd from the Royal

:12:20. > :12:22.Gibraltar Regiment disappeared after leaving a pub, and was found

:12:23. > :12:26.unconscious early on Sunday morning. He died later in hospital. A

:12:27. > :12:29.22-year-old man has also been charged with affray.

:12:30. > :12:32.A company that sent a temp home from work for refusing to wear high

:12:33. > :12:35.heels, has changed its policy, making it clear flat

:12:36. > :12:38.Nicola Thorp was told she had to wear heels of between two

:12:39. > :12:41.and four inches for a job as a receptionist in London.

:12:42. > :12:44.More than 60,000 people have signed a petition in protest.

:12:45. > :12:47.A car has fallen into a large hole in South East London.

:12:48. > :12:50.No-one was inside the people carrier when it was discovered by police

:12:51. > :12:57.The road has since been closed and Greenwich

:12:58. > :12:59.council says it is urgently investigating the matter.

:13:00. > :13:03.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

:13:04. > :13:10.We are going to be talking about the BBC, how it is run, the licence fee,

:13:11. > :13:13.star pay. That is no what you think about that. We have a discussion

:13:14. > :13:17.coming up after the sport. use the hashtag #victorialive

:13:18. > :13:20.and If you text, you will be charged Let's catch up with the sport with

:13:21. > :13:32.Huw. Things have been decided, Sunderland

:13:33. > :13:37.staying up but Newcastle go down. The Sunderland boss Sam Allardyce is

:13:38. > :13:41.calling on the club to forget the dark days of their relegation

:13:42. > :13:47.struggles, after guaranteeing their Premiership survival with a 3-0 win

:13:48. > :13:49.last night. When you are fighting survival, this is how you want to

:13:50. > :14:00.finish, the Allardyce said his squad had come

:14:01. > :14:08.through the tough times stronger and stronger. For the rest of the lads

:14:09. > :14:12.and the families, it is a terrific effort by us all. It has paid off in

:14:13. > :14:17.the end. All of the hard work we have put in, not just me as a

:14:18. > :14:21.manager but all the backroom staff, we have put everything together, it

:14:22. > :14:22.has finally paid off. In the end everything has turned out nice and

:14:23. > :14:27.Rosie, as they say. Well, that win for Big Sam's men

:14:28. > :14:30.meant Norwich were relegated, despite their win last night -

:14:31. > :14:32.as were Newcastle United. Norwich go straight back down

:14:33. > :14:35.but for Newcastle there are much bigger questions -

:14:36. > :14:37.manager Rafael Benitez will now have the option to leave the club,

:14:38. > :14:39.and after they spent ?80 million in the January

:14:40. > :14:41.transfer window alone, Well, Mark Douglas joins us now -

:14:42. > :14:45.he's the Newcastle United editor for the Chronicle and Journal

:14:46. > :14:56.newspapers in the city. A difficult time, a great result for

:14:57. > :15:02.Newcastle but what makes the Newcastle? Yes, I think the problem

:15:03. > :15:06.for Newcastle is there are so many unanswered questions. We have said

:15:07. > :15:10.all season that this looked likely. The best they have been all season

:15:11. > :15:13.is 11th, they spent most of their season in the bottom three but we

:15:14. > :15:17.have never really had a clear sense that the board really knew the

:15:18. > :15:22.severity of the situation they found themselves in. Just two to three

:15:23. > :15:25.months ago there was a fans forum, in which they said they were still

:15:26. > :15:29.confident of staying up. They still had Steve McClaren as manager. They

:15:30. > :15:34.subsequently went out and got Rafa Benitez. There was an improvement,

:15:35. > :15:37.but it was too little, too late. For Newcastle United, the last three

:15:38. > :15:41.years they have been taking the wrong decisions. It would be great

:15:42. > :15:45.if Rafa Benitez stayed at Newcastle, especially for their fans. Do you

:15:46. > :15:51.think he will, and if not, who is next? The problem with Rafa Benitez

:15:52. > :15:55.staying at Newcastle United is that he will want to turn Newcastle

:15:56. > :15:58.United into a force in the Premier League, which is what we were

:15:59. > :16:02.hearing two to three months ago. The next question he would ask of the

:16:03. > :16:05.board is how do we kick on from here and get into the Champions League?

:16:06. > :16:09.It is not easy to do that when you are in the division below, the

:16:10. > :16:12.Division 1 would have thought Rafa Benitez would never have thought of

:16:13. > :16:16.himself managing in. But there is a little bit of hope, in that he has

:16:17. > :16:21.certainly been won over by the easy as towards him by Newcastle fans. I

:16:22. > :16:25.do think there is a glimmer of hope there, but he will want massive

:16:26. > :16:28.assurances of money and being able to turn the club around the way he

:16:29. > :16:30.wants. Because at the moment there is a lot of competing people at

:16:31. > :16:44.Newcastle. How much response ability will Mike

:16:45. > :16:48.Ashley taken this situation? It is on his head. He said we will make

:16:49. > :16:54.our own luck, we are going to sort things out, we have sorted this out

:16:55. > :17:12.financially but now we have to do it on the pitch, he has put people into

:17:13. > :17:15.positions of authority, like Lee Charnley, we were ninth when he was

:17:16. > :17:20.brought in, and we are now relegated. But it comes back to Mike

:17:21. > :17:24.Ashley, he has taken the wrong decisions, he has turned the club

:17:25. > :17:30.into a situation where it feels antagonistic towards its own fans,

:17:31. > :17:34.to the media, to its own players, we have seen the Gutierrez tribunal

:17:35. > :17:39.result as well. It has got to be Mike Ashley who has got to take the

:17:40. > :17:42.blame. Hopefully, if Rafa Benitez can stay, there might be some

:17:43. > :17:47.optimism. But it feels a long way away at the moment. Thanks very much

:17:48. > :17:53.for joining us. That is all the sport for now.

:17:54. > :17:56.What do you want from the BBC and how should it be run?

:17:57. > :17:59.Well, later this morning the Government will reveal how

:18:00. > :18:01.it thinks a future BBC should look and be run.

:18:02. > :18:04.One thing that's being suggested is that any stars earning more

:18:05. > :18:06.than 450,000 should be named and their salaries made public.

:18:07. > :18:09.This could include people like Gary Lineker and Graham Norton.

:18:10. > :18:11.The Culture Secretary John Whittingdale is also expected

:18:12. > :18:14.to announce plans to abolish the BBC Trust, the people who govern

:18:15. > :18:20.the BBC, and replace it with a new board.

:18:21. > :18:22.The proposals are also expected to say the licence fee will continue

:18:23. > :18:26.for at least another 11 years, and in future, only those who pay

:18:27. > :18:31.the licence fee will be able to use the BBC iPlayer.

:18:32. > :18:34.Let's talk now to Baroness Tessa Jowell, Labour's Culture Secretary

:18:35. > :18:42.Here in the studio, Peter Bone, Conservative MP, Gail Renard,

:18:43. > :18:46.Chair of the Writers Guild of Great Britain, Roger Laughton,

:18:47. > :18:49.who is a former senior BBC and ITV executive,

:18:50. > :18:57.Pamela Chabba, a retired teacher who feels the BBC

:18:58. > :19:02.We are also joined by Ryan Bourne, who has argued the BBC is not fit

:19:03. > :19:09.for purpose and should be privatised, commercially.

:19:10. > :19:20.David Sillitoe is also here. David, first, outline what we are

:19:21. > :19:23.expecting. There has been so much talk about what might be in it, but

:19:24. > :19:28.a lot of what was anticipated, it looks like it is not going to be

:19:29. > :19:32.correct? I've had phone calls for several nights, saying, is this

:19:33. > :19:38.true, the BBC will be told it cannot run Strictly Come Dancing on a

:19:39. > :19:43.Saturday night, that we will see the pay of every star paid more than

:19:44. > :19:49.?150,000, that there are going to be all sorts of these things, top

:19:50. > :19:51.slicing, will money be handed a way to fund other broadcasters,

:19:52. > :20:04.children's television? None But the things people expected will

:20:05. > :20:09.happen, the Trust will be abolished, if you complain and do not think the

:20:10. > :20:12.BBC is accurate, the final referee will be the government 's

:20:13. > :20:16.independent regulator, Ofcom. A new regulatory board will meet the

:20:17. > :20:20.day-to-day running of the BBC will be run by a new board of directors,

:20:21. > :20:25.headed by the chairman of the BBC, the director-general, the key issue

:20:26. > :20:31.is how many of those directors will be appointed by the government. We

:20:32. > :20:36.have been told in the White Paper that the staff will be BBC

:20:37. > :20:42.appointments, I'm sure that'll be an area of and discussion. White Paper,

:20:43. > :20:45.explained that isn't when this will happen. White Paper is the

:20:46. > :20:51.governments proposals for their final negotiations the charter. It

:20:52. > :20:56.is all signed in the autumn sometime, at the Privy Council. An

:20:57. > :21:00.arcane institution. Not the House of Commons or the House of Lords.

:21:01. > :21:03.Certainly a debate, they don't get a vote on it in Parliament.

:21:04. > :21:09.Essentially a debate between government and the BBC. This is a

:21:10. > :21:16.position document, this is what the government thinks should happen to

:21:17. > :21:19.the BBC. Lets it open to the panel. First to you, Tessa Jowell, you'll

:21:20. > :21:23.have had experience of being involved in these type of

:21:24. > :21:26.discussions, what are you expecting and hoping for, from today and what

:21:27. > :21:37.do you think about what you have heard? David Sillito has outlined

:21:38. > :21:41.well what is likely to be in the paper. When we look at the fine

:21:42. > :21:46.detail, reassurance or apprehension will be in the fine detail. I think

:21:47. > :21:53.there are three tests that these proposals have to meet. One of them

:21:54. > :21:56.is, will the BBC really be independent? I have grave misgivings

:21:57. > :22:02.about the establishment of the unitary board to run the BBC, with a

:22:03. > :22:08.substantial number of people appointed by it government. The

:22:09. > :22:15.difference with the BBC trust was that the trust was established

:22:16. > :22:21.expressly to represent the interests of the licence fee payer. That is

:22:22. > :22:24.the first issue. On that, in terms of numbers, if it was half of the

:22:25. > :22:30.work would that be acceptable, you feel there should be no them and

:22:31. > :22:35.appointments -- if it was half, or fewer. I think it depends less on

:22:36. > :22:40.the numbers and more on the job that the nonexecutive directors intends

:22:41. > :22:44.to do. I hope that it will be made absolutely clear that the

:22:45. > :22:51.nonexecutive directors on this board will be, if you like, guardians of

:22:52. > :22:57.the licence fee payers interests. The risk is that all that happens is

:22:58. > :23:03.that we recreate the BBC governors, which became discredited by the

:23:04. > :23:08.extent to which their principal and primary loyalty was to the BBC

:23:09. > :23:15.rather than to the public will finance the BBC. So safeguarding

:23:16. > :23:19.independence, critical capacity, it is the licence fee payer being well

:23:20. > :23:26.served? That should be the job of the independent directors on this

:23:27. > :23:31.proposed new board. Before you come to the second issue let's talk about

:23:32. > :23:38.the board first with everyone. There are lots of issues to get around.

:23:39. > :23:43.Bill Cash? First, I think these reforms are well overdue. Secondly,

:23:44. > :23:49.the fact is that the BBC has access to and has around ?5.3 billion a

:23:50. > :23:53.year. The whole of the House of Commons and the House of Lords

:23:54. > :23:58.together, the whole of our democracy is only 500 million, to put that

:23:59. > :24:02.into contracts. Fact is that ?3.7 billion of that comes from the

:24:03. > :24:06.taxpayer, and I think that is the beginning of the argument because of

:24:07. > :24:09.that amount of money is paid for either taxpayer, then it is

:24:10. > :24:15.essential that you have complete impartiality. I very much agree that

:24:16. > :24:20.the BBC needs its independence but the question of how you get there is

:24:21. > :24:24.the real issue. As my European select committee has been

:24:25. > :24:29.investigating with its reports. What about the business of government

:24:30. > :24:33.appointees to the board? I think the government is entitled to have a

:24:34. > :24:36.limited number of people. I think the essence of independence will

:24:37. > :24:41.come from the people who are appointed. In other words how do you

:24:42. > :24:46.make the appointments and decide who should be there? I think I am right

:24:47. > :24:51.in saying that Ofcom have recently had quite a lot of BBC people

:24:52. > :24:56.imported into the Ofcom who other people who will take over the

:24:57. > :24:59.regulatory assessment of the BBC as compared to the Trust, which I think

:25:00. > :25:06.by common consent has been a failure. Even Rona Fairhead admitted

:25:07. > :25:13.it was not functioning properly. Anyone else with a strong view on

:25:14. > :25:17.this point? It's a numbers game with appointing a new government body or

:25:18. > :25:22.whatever because if you get that the chair of the BBC is appointed and

:25:23. > :25:26.the government, and then the checkpoints are director-general,

:25:27. > :25:30.what numbers are we talking about, who is appointing what? It will be

:25:31. > :25:37.very difficult, dangerous to have that many government people. They

:25:38. > :25:42.say not feel a numbers of government people are opposed to other

:25:43. > :25:45.appointees -- not fewer numbers but when you factor in one

:25:46. > :25:50.director-general and one chair, are the numbers that clean? Also there

:25:51. > :25:56.is a huge difference between state broadcasting and public broadcasting

:25:57. > :25:59.and this is public broadcasting. What do you think? The devil will be

:26:00. > :26:04.in the detail although we don't know the details yet! I think the correct

:26:05. > :26:15.decision has been made, to get rid of the BBC caption Trust. I see no

:26:16. > :26:19.reason why this should not work, in principle. That is the governance

:26:20. > :26:25.issue. Let's move to a story that has got the headlines, the issue of

:26:26. > :26:32.pay. Anyone want to dive in first? Perhaps someone who has not spoken

:26:33. > :26:35.yet? Victoria, you are a member of the viewing public. First I would

:26:36. > :26:39.like to say that I don't think any of the people on the board should be

:26:40. > :26:45.government appointees. I feel strongly about that. If we are going

:26:46. > :26:50.to have independence we do not need government people getting involved

:26:51. > :26:54.in the BBC. It should be truly independent. One thing that comes up

:26:55. > :27:00.time and again on social media is people fearing that the government

:27:01. > :27:05.is somehow meddling with our BBC, with the TV programming and also

:27:06. > :27:09.with the news and once we lose their faith, that's over. You cannot lose

:27:10. > :27:14.people's faith in the news. They need to know that it is independent.

:27:15. > :27:19.And so I don't think there should be any government appointees. It should

:27:20. > :27:23.be a board of independently appointed people, cross-party, if

:27:24. > :27:30.you like. I don't have a problem with Ofcom being involved. I am cool

:27:31. > :27:34.with that. They are independent, I think that's fine. When it comes to

:27:35. > :27:42.the salaries, what are we trying to achieve? All this will achieve is

:27:43. > :27:47.just to anger the public because honestly, the public have been

:27:48. > :27:54.subject to no wage increases, in fact wage decreases, and then they

:27:55. > :27:58.are going to see these fantastical salaries, we cannot deny, these

:27:59. > :28:02.people on high salaries. Although the thing about these people and the

:28:03. > :28:06.talent involved is, I can tell you, those people could walk out of the

:28:07. > :28:11.BBC tomorrow and they could cross the road to ITV and they would get

:28:12. > :28:14.double or triple that amount. So those people at the BBC because they

:28:15. > :28:20.choose to be there. They believe in what it stands for. We have one

:28:21. > :28:25.former BBC executive and one former ITV executive, is that true, Roger?

:28:26. > :28:32.Movement between the channels is less frequent than one might think.

:28:33. > :28:37.Features to be at the BBC! I take the view that we all pay for the BBC

:28:38. > :28:43.and the degree of scrutiny and openness is quite an important

:28:44. > :28:50.issue. Top civil servant salaries... Do you think that ?150,000 is the

:28:51. > :28:56.right level, there was talk about other salaries. I don't want to get

:28:57. > :28:58.into numbers because I'm not great on salary differentials. All I know

:28:59. > :29:03.is that the BBC is in the public domain and must expect a degree of

:29:04. > :29:06.scrutiny, given a compulsory licence fee that some other organisations

:29:07. > :29:11.might not have, the Public Accounts Committee can do a good job with the

:29:12. > :29:14.National Audit Office, particularly looking at the figures. There's been

:29:15. > :29:22.quite a contest for some years, I've taken part in it myself with some

:29:23. > :29:26.MPs, as you rightly say, tax payers money all licence payers money needs

:29:27. > :29:31.to be accounted for. On the counsel individuals I do not see why people

:29:32. > :29:35.should not see how much people, everyone knows how much earning

:29:36. > :29:41.public companies, and they are not in the public domain. What is so

:29:42. > :29:45.special? I would not set the level, I would not have one. Everyone knows

:29:46. > :29:50.what everyone else earns in almost every other sphere. I don't

:29:51. > :29:56.understand what is so special about the BBC. You were all nodding.

:29:57. > :30:00.Tessa? I agree with that and I think that transparency about this is good

:30:01. > :30:04.otherwise you get endless newspaper headlines which just plump for one

:30:05. > :30:10.figure which is usually millions, and it is much better actually that

:30:11. > :30:16.people know. Therefore I am in favour of publishing what talent is

:30:17. > :30:21.paid but the important thing is that the BBC is not but at a commercial

:30:22. > :30:32.disadvantage, and that by publishing what celebrity David Sillito is paid

:30:33. > :30:35.by contrast it will make it possible for other companies to up at and say

:30:36. > :30:39.we will give you more because we know what the BBC is offering you.

:30:40. > :30:43.This should be incumbent on all broadcasters to create a level

:30:44. > :30:47.playing field but it is right that the licence fee payer should know

:30:48. > :30:53.how much is going on getting highly talented people, celebrities, to

:30:54. > :31:04.take part in BBC programmes but it to be a level playing field. It

:31:05. > :31:07.works two ways because talent also includes writers and it would be

:31:08. > :31:10.good to publicise that, because whereas celebrities are highly paid

:31:11. > :31:15.I can assure you that the writers are not and in some cases they have

:31:16. > :31:19.to work for free within the BBC to do what are called trial scripts and

:31:20. > :31:23.all the rest, which means that they are writing to some of the major BBC

:31:24. > :31:24.shows and spending the time and doing it as professional writers and

:31:25. > :31:31.for all the major BBC shows and they are not being paid. So David why not

:31:32. > :31:35.more transparency on pay? The argument is that the more you

:31:36. > :31:44.reveal, the easier it is to poach top talent. I'm not quite sure

:31:45. > :31:50.whether that is a reality or not. Keeping it at 450 is very high. They

:31:51. > :31:53.were talking about ?150,000 plus, the market is probably very

:31:54. > :31:56.different to the people who bring an audience. There is a view within

:31:57. > :32:00.television that there are certain people who have a certain magic

:32:01. > :32:05.about them, and they are the ones paid exponentially more than anybody

:32:06. > :32:07.else. It is almost like a voodoo economics of deciding who these

:32:08. > :32:12.people are and what these special magic skills are they have. But the

:32:13. > :32:16.execs look at the audience and say that is the magic person.

:32:17. > :32:20.Self-promotion as part of the operation and all that sort of

:32:21. > :32:23.thing. But it is exactly the same with chief executives of big

:32:24. > :32:28.companies, sometimes they acquire some sort of mystique. If you look,

:32:29. > :32:32.the more transparency that has existed in public corporations, Paea

:32:33. > :32:36.carries on going up and up and up. So some people say it may actually

:32:37. > :32:42.increase the amount of salaries, rather than decrease them. Let's

:32:43. > :32:47.move on to the licence fee as a whole, Ryan Bourne has a bitter

:32:48. > :32:49.killer interest in this from the economic board of affairs was that

:32:50. > :32:56.the licence fee is therefore another 11 years at least. You think that is

:32:57. > :33:00.wrong? I think it is bad for the BBC, that is the main point I will

:33:01. > :33:04.try to make. Because we are seeing already in the rest of this

:33:05. > :33:08.discussion, the degree of politicisation and the distortion of

:33:09. > :33:13.the way that the BBC has two serve a purely domestic audience. We are

:33:14. > :33:17.talking about channels and things. Television is going to evolve and

:33:18. > :33:20.has been evolving rapidly over the last decade, and the real

:33:21. > :33:24.competitors to the BBC now, in terms of the production of content going

:33:25. > :33:30.forwards, will be Netflix, Amazon, Google, Time Warner. All of these

:33:31. > :33:36.major, major producers and providers of content. If you have got a

:33:37. > :33:40.licence fee, which in effect is paid by everybody that owns a television,

:33:41. > :33:45.now everybody who watches on iPlayer, that creates a constraint

:33:46. > :33:49.of the BBC to merely serve a domestic audience and try to be all

:33:50. > :33:53.things to all men, where I think the BBC should be raising its horizons,

:33:54. > :33:59.it should be given independence to pursue a real global brand, and a

:34:00. > :34:05.global strategy to grow and become a huge media, international media

:34:06. > :34:08.broadcaster, rather than being constraint of the domestic market.

:34:09. > :34:12.What do you think of that, that question of being all things to all

:34:13. > :34:18.people? If everyone is paying, everyone has to get something from

:34:19. > :34:21.it, is that the best way? BBC worldwide has quite a significant

:34:22. > :34:25.turnover, and the BBC World Service is pretty well watched and listened

:34:26. > :34:33.to, so I'm not sure I agree. Neither do I come of the BBC is a huge part

:34:34. > :34:39.of the nation's economy, shows like Sherlock and Dr Who and the rest

:34:40. > :34:43.bring ?1.3 billion every year. For every pound you spend on the licence

:34:44. > :34:49.fee, it gets another pound back into the coffers of the UK. Did you see

:34:50. > :34:55.it as a revenue raiser? Yes, but for the BBC. The important thing about

:34:56. > :35:01.the licence fee is that it is the public was Mac money, not public

:35:02. > :35:06.money. Yes, of course people who pay the licence fee, most of them will

:35:07. > :35:20.also be tax payers as well, but I see it rather akin to the income

:35:21. > :35:25.that the lottery derives -- it is the public's money, not public

:35:26. > :35:31.money. It should not pay for things which are part of mainstream public

:35:32. > :35:36.expenditure. I am very concerned about the way in which this

:35:37. > :35:40.government has just helped itself to chunks of licence fee payers money,

:35:41. > :35:47.like for instance the decision to say it is for the BBC to run the

:35:48. > :35:54.work and pensions programme, and to pay for free licenses for people

:35:55. > :36:00.over 75. I think that is creating a confusion. The licence fee, ?3.7

:36:01. > :36:04.billion coming to the BBC belongs to the licence fee payer, and that is

:36:05. > :36:09.why this founding point about accountability to the licence fee

:36:10. > :36:15.payer is so important. It is not money that the government should be

:36:16. > :36:18.free to help itself to. Hence the importance of independence. Could I

:36:19. > :36:23.just come back to the question of the use to which the money is made,

:36:24. > :36:27.because educate, inform and entertain. Now as I understand it,

:36:28. > :36:32.and I have pressed very hard for this in papers I have written in

:36:33. > :36:36.consultation exercises, that impartiality should be made one of

:36:37. > :36:40.the main principles of the BBC. Because actually that is where the

:36:41. > :36:45.money, as it were, certainly in terms of the content of information

:36:46. > :36:50.and current affairs really comes home to roost. The real question is

:36:51. > :36:54.do people really a get proper opportunity to hear both sides of

:36:55. > :36:59.the argument in a fair way? And actually, in fairness, I will say

:37:00. > :37:03.the BBC has improved, over this European referendum, I am very glad

:37:04. > :37:07.to see that my European committee was very concerned, we have noticed

:37:08. > :37:12.a very significant change, it may not be perfect, but it is certainly

:37:13. > :37:15.a great improvement, and it is essential to the information,

:37:16. > :37:18.because it goes straight into people's drawing rooms. That is

:37:19. > :37:22.where you influence people. Not just people sitting around like we are

:37:23. > :37:27.chatting, we are going into people's drawing rooms, it is affecting what

:37:28. > :37:31.they think. It is very important it should be impartial. Our viewer,

:37:32. > :37:37.Victoria, I can see you desperate to get in with a final thought. I agree

:37:38. > :37:43.with a lot of what has been said about money coming from elsewhere.

:37:44. > :37:46.Obviously, the BBC is a massive corporation, it sells its programmes

:37:47. > :37:51.around the world, it is respected and recognised across the globe, and

:37:52. > :37:57.it is a huge brand that we should be proud of as British people. But at

:37:58. > :38:04.the same time it is also a public service. It is right that it is

:38:05. > :38:08.partly funded by the licence fee. However, I think perhaps the licence

:38:09. > :38:11.fee itself is a cause of quite a lot of anger for viewers, because they

:38:12. > :38:16.have this bill, this licence fee that they just get angry about,

:38:17. > :38:21.whereas other public services are included in normal taxation, and

:38:22. > :38:25.that is fine. You can choose not to use the NHS or education, you can

:38:26. > :38:27.choose not to do that, but you have got to pay for it anyway because

:38:28. > :38:32.there are people out there who need it. I am going to have two

:38:33. > :38:35.unfortunately, I'm sorry, I know you have so many thoughts, have to stop

:38:36. > :38:38.it there. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it, and lots of you

:38:39. > :38:47.getting in touch as you are watching our discussion. I will do three pro,

:38:48. > :38:52.three and the comedy the affair as I can. -- three anti. Please Mr

:38:53. > :38:56.Whittingdale leave it be, says this one. George on e-mail, the BBC

:38:57. > :39:01.delivers the truth, all politicians fear the truth. The future of the

:39:02. > :39:03.BBC should not be in the hands of politicians, and particularly the

:39:04. > :39:08.government minister involved. No problem with the BBC board, Tony on

:39:09. > :39:13.Twitter, BBC belongs to the nation not any political party. George on

:39:14. > :39:16.e-mail, the BBC licence fee should be completely scrapped, one of the

:39:17. > :39:21.problems is the high wages for the managers and overpaid stars. Heather

:39:22. > :39:28.on e-mail, the inability to try new talent. Too many presenters are

:39:29. > :39:31.stale and passed their sell by date. Question time for example. Keep

:39:32. > :39:37.producing the great drama at which the BBC is so adept. An anonymous

:39:38. > :39:42.text, the licence fee needs to be stopped, bring back entertaining

:39:43. > :39:46.television. The BBC is out of touch, it cannot continue unless it moves

:39:47. > :39:51.to independent self funding and disconnects from the government.

:39:52. > :39:55.Thank you for your comments. John Whittingdale is expected to speak at

:39:56. > :39:57.around 11am, so there will be full coverage on the BBC of what he says.

:39:58. > :40:00.Still to come: Humiliated and left to feel guilty.

:40:01. > :40:03.Victims of a man who uploaded social media pictures of his sister

:40:04. > :40:09.and other women onto porn websites call for tougher action,

:40:10. > :40:13.after the perpetrator walked off with just a caution.

:40:14. > :40:21.There is not enough knowledge within this kind of area, which is a shame,

:40:22. > :40:24.really, because obviously now cases like this aren't taken seriously

:40:25. > :40:27.enough. And after being left red-faced

:40:28. > :40:29.following those corruption comments, the Prime Minister prepares

:40:30. > :40:32.to welcome Nigeria and Afghanistan to a major conference

:40:33. > :40:33.tackling the issue. We'll be asking just how much

:40:34. > :40:40.damage has been caused. We are running a little late because

:40:41. > :40:44.of our discussion about the BBC. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:40:45. > :40:48.with a summary of today's news. Plans for a major overhaul

:40:49. > :40:59.in the way the BBC is run are due to be set out by the

:41:00. > :41:02.Government this morning. The Trust, which governs

:41:03. > :41:04.the broadcaster, is expected to be abolished, and the licence fee

:41:05. > :41:10.is expected to continue for at least I have grave misgivings about the

:41:11. > :41:16.establishment of a unitary board to run the BBC with a substantial

:41:17. > :41:21.number of people appointed by the government. The difference with the

:41:22. > :41:26.BBC trust was that the trust was established expressly to represent

:41:27. > :41:33.the interests of the licence fee payer. I do think the essence of

:41:34. > :41:36.independence will come from the people who are appointed, in other

:41:37. > :41:40.words, how do you make the appointments and who do you decide

:41:41. > :41:45.should be there? Ofcom, by the way, I think I'm right in saying have

:41:46. > :41:49.just recently had quite a lot of BBC people imported into Ofcom, who are

:41:50. > :42:00.the people who will take over the regulatory assessment of the BBC, as

:42:01. > :42:03.compared to the trust. For the first time foreign companies who want to

:42:04. > :42:12.buy property in the UK already have it will have announce who owns it.

:42:13. > :42:15.David Cameron will NOT take part in any EU referendum TV debates

:42:16. > :42:16.with Boris Johnson or other Conservatives.

:42:17. > :42:19.Downing Street says they don't want the campaign to turn into a fight

:42:20. > :42:22.Vote Leave - the official out campaign -

:42:23. > :42:27.after the broadcaster excluded them from a major TV debate, and instead

:42:28. > :42:33.invited Nigel Farage to represent those who want to leave the EU.

:42:34. > :42:36.A 23-year-old man has been charged with the murder of a soldier

:42:37. > :42:47.Private Matthew Boyd from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment disappeared after

:42:48. > :42:52.leaving a pub and was found unconscious at early Sunday morning.

:42:53. > :42:55.He died later in hospital. A 22-year-old man has also been

:42:56. > :42:57.charged with affray. That is a summary of the latest news, Moore at

:42:58. > :43:07.ten o'clock. It is all about the permit

:43:08. > :43:11.relegation. If you are a Sunderland fan you will be smiling doubly wide,

:43:12. > :43:16.because not only do you stay up but your 3-0 win over Everton means both

:43:17. > :43:19.Norwich and Newcastle are a ligated. There were celebrations at the

:43:20. > :43:25.Stadium Of Light last night. Sam Allardyce's men remained Tain in the

:43:26. > :43:28.Premier League. That win for Sunderland relegates north-east

:43:29. > :43:31.rivals, Newcastle. They join Norwich and Aston Villa in the Championship

:43:32. > :43:35.necks is on. To cricket, Nottinghamshire fast bowler Jake

:43:36. > :43:38.Ball is one of two uncapped players in the squad for England's first

:43:39. > :43:42.Test match against Sri Lanka next week at Headingley. Hampshire

:43:43. > :43:48.captain James Vince was also called up. Tom Daley and Grace Reid have

:43:49. > :43:52.won Britain's first gold medal at the European Aquatics Championships

:43:53. > :43:56.in London. They won the three metre synchro event, given that they have

:43:57. > :43:58.only been diving together for ten days it is amazing, really. That is

:43:59. > :44:01.all the sport for now. David Cameron is welcoming delegates

:44:02. > :44:03.from countries across the world for At the top of the list -

:44:04. > :44:07.transparency - so, for example, forcing countries and companies

:44:08. > :44:10.to reveal who really owns what, But the event could be overshadowed

:44:11. > :44:14.by the Prime Minister's Earlier this week, he was caught

:44:15. > :44:17.on camera, whilst chatting with the Queen and Archbishop

:44:18. > :44:20.of Canterbury, describing two of the countries sending

:44:21. > :44:36.delegates to London Naomi Grimley is at Lancaster house

:44:37. > :44:41.where the Conference is taking place was as a fence being taken at that?

:44:42. > :44:45.I think originally offence was taken. Though yesterday in public

:44:46. > :44:50.President Bo Hari of Nigeria was actually being rather gracious about

:44:51. > :44:54.the incident, saying he was not going to demand an apology. Instead

:44:55. > :44:58.he would rather like countries like Britain where stolen assets might

:44:59. > :45:03.have been stashed in properties or banks to be returned to countries

:45:04. > :45:08.like Nigeria. Nevertheless the whole episode has rather overshadowed this

:45:09. > :45:12.summit, and David Cameron will be falling over himself this morning to

:45:13. > :45:18.stress many of these countries now do have reforming tendencies. Places

:45:19. > :45:24.like Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Nigeria, have people in charge who

:45:25. > :45:30.want to crackdown on the whole issue of graft and corruption.

:45:31. > :45:40.The moment will speak to some people about what the Commons mean for the

:45:41. > :45:42.summit. Sarah Chaves has written a book called Thieves of State: Why

:45:43. > :45:44.Corruption Threatens Global and has been invited to attend the

:45:45. > :45:52.conference. She will be speaking later. I asked her how she defines

:45:53. > :45:56.corruption. In these days, it is more than just a practice that some

:45:57. > :46:02.venal members, or even many venal members of government engaging. It

:46:03. > :46:10.is actually the practice of very sophisticated and successful

:46:11. > :46:12.networks that control how all aspects of their societies in a lot

:46:13. > :46:18.of countries, meaning government officials are bending the elements

:46:19. > :46:21.of state function. I mean, government agencies are being bent

:46:22. > :46:29.to serve the purposes of personal enrichment. Private sector actors

:46:30. > :46:33.are part of this network, sometimes even criminals come out and out

:46:34. > :46:40.criminals, are part of these networks. You have these integrated

:46:41. > :46:42.networks that have wired closed the whole political economy of

:46:43. > :46:50.countries. Then they have, as we have all been hearing, facilitators

:46:51. > :46:53.that are located outside of these countries. And then they take the

:46:54. > :46:58.money out of the countries and they spend it in places like London, New

:46:59. > :47:07.York and Florida. This is obviously about dirty money, vested interests.

:47:08. > :47:12.You see a clear link to extremism? I do, I see it because when a system

:47:13. > :47:16.is so thoroughly wired the way that I just described it, people have no

:47:17. > :47:20.recourse. Not only is there money being stolen, but something that

:47:21. > :47:24.Westerners often tend to underestimate is that their dignity

:47:25. > :47:27.is being stolen as well. When a police officer on the street stops

:47:28. > :47:31.you and shakes you down for money, it might not be very much that he is

:47:32. > :47:40.taking from you, but he doesn't do it politely, he does not say, please

:47:41. > :47:43.would you mind, my salary is low. He is pushing you around, and very

:47:44. > :47:47.often all you have left is your dignity. Imagine you are a proud,

:47:48. > :47:52.young Afghan man, and I spent a number of years in Afghanistan, and

:47:53. > :47:55.a police officer shoves you, smacks you and demand some money, and you

:47:56. > :47:59.have nothing but that dignity, at some point you wanted to kill the

:48:00. > :48:02.guy. What you have in southern Afghanistan, for example, is the

:48:03. > :48:10.Taliban not only offer you the opportunity to kill the police

:48:11. > :48:12.officer, but they offer you the argument. The argument is, the

:48:13. > :48:18.reason that police officer or that judge is so corrupt is because it is

:48:19. > :48:21.not obey God's law. And if only our government was organised according

:48:22. > :48:26.to God's law, this would never happen like this. It is a spurious

:48:27. > :48:33.argument, but when you are furious and when there is no recourse for

:48:34. > :48:38.you, to be had from the government, because the government has tied up

:48:39. > :48:43.every element, both of the private sector and the public sector, well,

:48:44. > :48:47.you often turn to God for recourse. I have seen it in Afghanistan, I

:48:48. > :48:51.have seen it in Nigeria, I have seen it in Central Asia. I'm not saying

:48:52. > :48:55.it happens all the time that way, because other people have turned to

:48:56. > :49:02.revolution. We have had the Arab Spring, which originally was not an

:49:03. > :49:07.extremist event, it spun in that direction eventually. We have had

:49:08. > :49:12.Ukraine. I am saying this type of system pushes people to extremes.

:49:13. > :49:18.You said about where the laundered money ends up being spent, that

:49:19. > :49:24.brings all sorts of countries into the frame? So, questions for all

:49:25. > :49:31.countries to answer? Absolutely, that is why I find this summit so

:49:32. > :49:38.fascinating. It was guaranteed to be messy, right? Corruption is not a

:49:39. > :49:43.safe topic, that is why so many political leaders just look the

:49:44. > :49:46.other way. It's the experience I've had over the years, trying to get

:49:47. > :49:53.political decision-makers to really take this on, they decide it is

:49:54. > :49:57.boring. In fact, it is not a boring topic at all, as we are discovering.

:49:58. > :50:00.If you're going to have an anti-corruption Summit in London, it

:50:01. > :50:04.is going to blow up in your face, it is guaranteed to blow up in your

:50:05. > :50:09.face. These networks that I am describing, as I say, have

:50:10. > :50:24.international facilitators like the law firm of Panama, but it also goes

:50:25. > :50:29.outside. They want to protect their money, they want to buy luxurious

:50:30. > :50:33.things with their money, they want to achieve visible staters with

:50:34. > :50:37.their money. They can't do that very often in their own countries. They

:50:38. > :50:43.do that also, they build fantastically huge properties. At a

:50:44. > :50:51.city like London and New York, those are cities that carry stature. There

:50:52. > :50:57.is image enhancement to spending your money in London or New York.

:50:58. > :51:01.The embarrassing thing is that our economies in the west are

:51:02. > :51:07.predicated, very often, on corrupt money. We had a former mayor of New

:51:08. > :51:12.York saying I want every billionaire in the world to buy property in New

:51:13. > :51:14.York. Well, is every billionaire in the world getting their money

:51:15. > :51:17.honestly or legally? No. Let's talk now to Kate McMahon,

:51:18. > :51:21.Serious Fraud Lawyer at Edmonds Marshall McMahon,

:51:22. > :51:23.Sir William Patey, former British ambassador to Afghanistan,

:51:24. > :51:27.who has spoken frankly about what he sees as the errors

:51:28. > :51:30.and failings in the country, and Robert Barrington

:51:31. > :51:32.from Transparency International, an organisation which works

:51:33. > :51:47.to combat global corruption. Thank you for joining us. Kate, we

:51:48. > :51:51.were hearing from Sarah Chaves that if you think corruption is about

:51:52. > :51:55.stopping in another country and not affecting us here, you are wrong.

:51:56. > :52:00.Tell us what you encounter and what the scale is? Absolutely, my

:52:01. > :52:02.background is dealing with lots of international frauds, where there is

:52:03. > :52:07.some element of that has occurred in the UK. Very often, as we have

:52:08. > :52:16.already heard this morning, the UK is an incredibly attractive place

:52:17. > :52:21.for money, it is safe, ironically with rules and regulations which

:52:22. > :52:26.meant people feel safe. ?180 billion of unexplained money is set to own

:52:27. > :52:30.various houses and properties in England. Unexplained, through

:52:31. > :52:37.foreign companies and nobody knows who owns them? Absolutely, correct.

:52:38. > :52:40.What we often deal with any fraud and corruption sphere is lots of

:52:41. > :52:43.money and lots of property without any identifiable owner. One of the

:52:44. > :52:47.big issues at the moment is how do we make those owners more

:52:48. > :52:51.identifiable and more accountable? That is something we are expecting

:52:52. > :52:56.to hear from David Cameron later, those companies will have to reveal

:52:57. > :53:00.who is the ultimate owner, but it will not apply to British Overseas

:53:01. > :53:06.Territories? Is that going to be a loophole? To some extent, that will

:53:07. > :53:09.be a loophole. The question is, do we make those companies have to

:53:10. > :53:16.declare a significant interest in any UK company or any UK property?

:53:17. > :53:19.So, irrespective of where you have set up your trust Company, if you

:53:20. > :53:23.want to invest in the UK, you're going to have to declare that

:53:24. > :53:26.investment and that you have a significant control of a company

:53:27. > :53:36.where you may not come on paper, appear as a director. Anybody

:53:37. > :53:40.looking to launder money is going to look for any loophole and go there,

:53:41. > :53:44.rather than complying with what comes in. Do you expect anything

:53:45. > :53:48.that comes in to have much of an impact? Corruption is one of the

:53:49. > :53:53.things we are tackling, but slowly. If it has an effect and 30%, that is

:53:54. > :53:57.wonderful progress. Obviously you cannot stop people from asking

:53:58. > :54:01.friends or people that work for them, or other associates to that

:54:02. > :54:05.interest. What it does show is that there is a link between the person,

:54:06. > :54:09.potentially, purchasing with the beneficial interest, and the person

:54:10. > :54:18.that purchases. At least we will be able to create links. So William

:54:19. > :54:21.Haiti, David Cameron described Afghanistan as fantastically

:54:22. > :54:26.corrupt, do you agree? I think it is a statement of fact. I don't even

:54:27. > :54:30.think the Afghan President would dispute it. He set out his stall as

:54:31. > :54:34.the new President to try to deal with corruption. It is something

:54:35. > :54:39.that can be a very low level, up to very high level. It can be from a

:54:40. > :54:51.policeman, as one of the previous contributor said, taking a bride

:54:52. > :54:59.from an innocent citizen -- bribe, right up to stealing the assets from

:55:00. > :55:02.the biggest bank in Afghanistan. It is extremely complicated and the

:55:03. > :55:06.only way to deal with it is to shine light on it, make a transparent,

:55:07. > :55:10.make it difficult for people to hide money, deal with corruption and the

:55:11. > :55:16.judiciary, and deal with corrupt politicians. There is no easy

:55:17. > :55:21.solution. Robert Barrington, you are from Transparency International, do

:55:22. > :55:24.you think that this summit will achieve transparency? It could do

:55:25. > :55:28.that, it is a different summit to all of the others that there have

:55:29. > :55:34.been. We have heard that the communique has been watered down,

:55:35. > :55:42.which is a bit to Singh. -- a bit disturbing. I think you'll

:55:43. > :55:44.contribute Izzat correct, tackling corruption is chock full of

:55:45. > :55:50.loopholes, and the summit could help close some of them, possibly many of

:55:51. > :55:55.them. It is a question of political will. The political will on display

:55:56. > :55:57.from Britain is quite impressive. Also, the leaders gathering around

:55:58. > :56:02.the world to do this. Cynics will say this is not good enough, and the

:56:03. > :56:08.UK has weaknesses in Crown dependencies. This is likely to be a

:56:09. > :56:14.step forward. We are talking about corruption on lots of different

:56:15. > :56:17.levels. You said it goes to the person on the street who asks for

:56:18. > :56:26.extra money to let somebody through, or whatever. Are those sorts of

:56:27. > :56:33.things just culturally ingrained in a way that they are not going to be

:56:34. > :56:37.eradicated? Can every aspect be tackled? There is a danger of saying

:56:38. > :56:41.it is a cultural problem and thinking that we in Britain are

:56:42. > :56:45.immune. I don't think we are. We have seen changes in Afghanistan.

:56:46. > :56:50.The police issue, there was a drop in corruption when policeman got

:56:51. > :56:53.their salaries on their telephones. Until that point, they hadn't

:56:54. > :56:56.realised how much money they were getting because their commanders

:56:57. > :57:05.were taking half of it. When the police get paid properly, the

:57:06. > :57:08.incentives for hassling, for citizens to steal money, they are

:57:09. > :57:14.reduced. There are systemic things you can do, but you have to tackle

:57:15. > :57:17.it, bit by bit. Intrinsically, I don't think Afghans are more corrupt

:57:18. > :57:21.than anybody else, but there are failings in the system that make it

:57:22. > :57:24.easier for corrupt people to survive, and then others that say

:57:25. > :57:32.they are getting away with it, why won't I? It is very important to

:57:33. > :57:36.have light shone on it. An incorruptible judiciary, politicians

:57:37. > :57:39.who give the right lead. It is not easy, I don't think there is

:57:40. > :57:46.anything intrinsically corrupt about Afghans. Robert Barrington, these

:57:47. > :57:50.are issues that have been around for ever, 2016 and this is being talked

:57:51. > :57:57.about. Do you think politicians have shied away from these issues before?

:57:58. > :58:00.Yes. I mean, it is quite clear that this anti-corruption Summit is

:58:01. > :58:04.talking about corruption, it is saying that the UK Government and

:58:05. > :58:09.others have not been good enough in the past. That is a new approach. In

:58:10. > :58:13.the past, these things having called integrity, governance, these sort of

:58:14. > :58:16.things, and not called it out as corruption, which is what the Prime

:58:17. > :58:20.Minister has done. The UK still has a lot to do, so do other

:58:21. > :58:24.governments. Political will is a key ingredient. I think some of that

:58:25. > :58:26.will be on display today. Thank you for joining us. Let's catch up with

:58:27. > :58:44.the weather. Other places have beautiful

:58:45. > :58:47.temperatures, some have clouds and rain, the cloud and the rain is

:58:48. > :58:51.across the south-west in the channel islands where we have murky

:58:52. > :58:55.conditions, around the coastline of Wales as well, away from that a fair

:58:56. > :59:02.bit of sunshine but still cloud coming down the used coast.

:59:03. > :59:07.Temperatures not too bad for many, if you are under the rain they will

:59:08. > :59:11.be suppressed, the rain moving down Cornwall to the hours of silly. We

:59:12. > :59:16.see a return to sunshine and showers as we do across Wales, the showers

:59:17. > :59:22.will be isolated but if you catch when it could be sharp, in Kendell,

:59:23. > :59:25.220 Celsius. Across to Northern Ireland, warming up with some

:59:26. > :59:30.sunshine and the cloud across the north-east of Scotland burning up

:59:31. > :59:33.towards the coast, and much of Scotland seeing some sunshine and

:59:34. > :59:39.showers and temperatures in the West again apt to around 23. North East

:59:40. > :59:44.England, anywhere from a fumble and towards the Wash prone to the breeze

:59:45. > :59:48.across the sea which will suppress temperatures, four East Anglian

:59:49. > :59:52.around London and into Kent, in the Midlands it is looking fine and dry,

:59:53. > :59:56.pollen levels more or less across the board today are going to be

:59:57. > :00:08.high, something to bear in mind if you have an allergy to tree pollen.

:00:09. > :00:15.And Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme if you have just joined

:00:16. > :00:18.us. The future of the BBC should become clearer when the Culture

:00:19. > :00:23.Secretary today unveils plans to change the way it is run. The Trust

:00:24. > :00:24.which governs the corporation will be abolished although the licence

:00:25. > :00:35.fee will be abolished. A man who uploaded pictures of his

:00:36. > :00:41.sister and some of her friends onto a pawn site got a caution. His

:00:42. > :00:47.victims believe that is not enough. It was not just because they were

:00:48. > :00:51.uploaded onto this site, it was what he had written that was disturbing

:00:52. > :00:55.that, having someone walk away, get on with his life and maybe meet

:00:56. > :01:02.somebody some day who knows nothing about it, that is just scary. Fake

:01:03. > :01:07.Viagra is flooding the online market and now accounts for 90% of all

:01:08. > :01:13.illegal medicines seized. Those buying it are putting their health

:01:14. > :01:18.at risk, people are warned. We have found some medicines stored in a

:01:19. > :01:19.shed in the back garden, damp, rats and mice crawling all over this

:01:20. > :01:32.stuff. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:01:33. > :01:35.with a summary of today's news. Plans for a "major overhaul"

:01:36. > :01:38.in the way the BBC is run, are being set out by

:01:39. > :01:40.the Government this morning. The Trust - which governs

:01:41. > :01:42.the broadcaster - is expected to be abolished,

:01:43. > :01:45.and the licence fee is expected to continue for at least

:01:46. > :01:51.another eleven years. I have grave misgivings about the

:01:52. > :01:57.establishment of a unitary board to run the BBC with a substantial

:01:58. > :02:04.number of people appointed by the government. The difference with the

:02:05. > :02:09.BBC Trust was that the Trust was established in press late to

:02:10. > :02:09.represent the interests of the licence fee payable asthma

:02:10. > :02:17.expressly. I do think the essence of

:02:18. > :02:21.independence will come from the people appointed. How do you make

:02:22. > :02:25.the appointments and decide who should be there? Ofcom, think I'm

:02:26. > :02:30.right in saying, have recently had quite a lot of BBC people imported

:02:31. > :02:35.into Ofcom, who other people who will take over the regulatory

:02:36. > :02:37.assessment of the BBC as compared to the Trust.

:02:38. > :02:39.For the first time, foreign companies that already have,

:02:40. > :02:42.or want to buy, property in the UK will have to reveal

:02:43. > :02:47.It's one of the measures being announced by David Cameron

:02:48. > :02:50.today at an international conference to fight global corruption

:02:51. > :02:59.David Cameron will not take part in any EU referendum TV debates with

:03:00. > :03:03.Boris Johnson or other Tories. Downing Street says they don't want

:03:04. > :03:09.the campaign to turn into a fight between Tory politicians. Vote

:03:10. > :03:13.Leave, the official Out campaign has accused ITV of taking sides after it

:03:14. > :03:16.excluded them from a TV debate and instead invited Nigel Farage to

:03:17. > :03:31.represent those who want to leave the EU.

:03:32. > :03:40.A man has been charged with the murder of a soldier who disappeared

:03:41. > :03:44.in Brecon. Private Matthew borrowed from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment

:03:45. > :03:48.disappeared after leaving above unconscious early on Sunday morning.

:03:49. > :03:53.He died later in hospital, 22-year-old man has been charged

:03:54. > :03:59.with affray. Donald Trump appears to have soft and his stance on Muslims.

:04:00. > :04:04.The proposed ban has been widely criticised in the USA and the board.

:04:05. > :04:07.The abortion rate in many countries are stocked to an all-time low

:04:08. > :04:19.mainly due to advances in contraception. Research published in

:04:20. > :04:23.the Lancet medical journal suggests that 20 72 nations are carried out

:04:24. > :04:26.per 1000 women each year. In developing countries where

:04:27. > :04:31.contraception is more limited rates have remained stable. The Brazilian

:04:32. > :04:34.president to Marissa looks certain to face impeachment proceedings as

:04:35. > :04:39.members of the country's Senate debate whether she should be put on

:04:40. > :04:43.trial. Please have fired tear gas at protesters outside parliament in the

:04:44. > :04:48.capital as the debate carries on inside. What an half the senators

:04:49. > :04:52.have already said they will vote for impeachment. A company which sent a

:04:53. > :04:56.temp home from work refusing to wear high heels has changed its policy

:04:57. > :05:00.making it clear that flat shoes are acceptable. Nicola Thorpe was told

:05:01. > :05:04.she had to wear heels of between two and four inches for a job as a

:05:05. > :05:08.receptionist in London. More than 60,000 people signed a petition in

:05:09. > :05:13.protest. That's the latest BBC News. Thank you, many people have been

:05:14. > :05:16.getting in touch, Tony says, I believe the BBC has lost its way,

:05:17. > :05:21.it's an old-fashioned corporation that has no respect for the way it

:05:22. > :05:25.is funded primarily by the public and refuses to make changes that the

:05:26. > :05:29.public would welcome. Valerie says by e-mail, I am worried about the

:05:30. > :05:33.vehemence by the government of the BBC. Long-term we might have an even

:05:34. > :05:37.more radical government and of the BBC is muzzled we would not know

:05:38. > :05:42.what was going on. The BBC must stay independent. Ma'afu, in a text,

:05:43. > :05:46.says, the BBC in this country is unique, people need to remember they

:05:47. > :05:51.can get a mixture of TV channels and radio stations for less than pound a

:05:52. > :05:56.day. Keep it independent. Another viewers says get rid of the BBC

:05:57. > :06:01.altogether, it is out of date, Chris says, it is known and loved, may

:06:02. > :06:05.that continue, and another viewers says that it does too much digital

:06:06. > :06:09.and Internet. I could carry on reading for a long time because so

:06:10. > :06:14.many of you have sent your thoughts. Keep on sending them and I will read

:06:15. > :06:18.at as many as I can. Remember the hashtags that we can find your

:06:19. > :06:22.comments when they come in. You will be charged at the standard network

:06:23. > :06:28.rate. Let's catch up with the sports is, it's all about Premier League

:06:29. > :06:32.relegation, over to you, Hugh. Congratulations to Sunderland. They

:06:33. > :06:36.stay up. Commiserations for Newcastle and Norwich will go down.

:06:37. > :06:41.Sunderland boss Sam Allott ice calls upon the club to forget the dark

:06:42. > :06:43.days of relegation struggle after they guaranteed Premier League

:06:44. > :06:49.survival by beating Everton 3-1 last night. Their defender scored two

:06:50. > :06:55.goals. This was his first, finishing like a centre forward, this came

:06:56. > :06:59.after an opener by Patrick van Aanholt. After the match some Allott

:07:00. > :07:05.ice said he wanted his squad to come through the tough times stronger and

:07:06. > :07:11.stronger. For the rest of the lads and their families, well done, a

:07:12. > :07:16.terrific effort by us all. It has paid off for us in the end, all the

:07:17. > :07:21.hard work we have done, not just me as manager but all the backroom

:07:22. > :07:27.staff, we have put all work together, everything has turned out

:07:28. > :07:31.well, as they say. Sunderland fans will be especially vocal at work

:07:32. > :07:35.today in the north-east. This result means they have relegated their

:07:36. > :07:39.north-east rivals Newcastle as well as Norwich although there will be

:07:40. > :07:45.questions for their owner Ashley now, not the least, can hold onto

:07:46. > :07:51.their highly rated manager, Phil Benitez? The problem will be if he

:07:52. > :07:55.stays you want to turn Sunderland into force in the Premier League. We

:07:56. > :07:59.heard months ago that the next question he would ask of the board

:08:00. > :08:03.would be, how do we get into the Champions League. Not easy to do

:08:04. > :08:06.that when you are in the division below, I would imagine that Rafa

:08:07. > :08:10.Benitez would never have imagined himself managing in there. There is

:08:11. > :08:16.some hope because he been won over by the enthusiasm of the Newcastle

:08:17. > :08:19.fans. I think there is a glimmer of hope although he will want massive

:08:20. > :08:22.assurances of money and being able to turn around the club the way that

:08:23. > :08:29.he wants because at the moment there's a lot of competing people at

:08:30. > :08:34.Newcastle. The England cricket squad to play Sri Lanka in the next test

:08:35. > :08:38.is announced, two uncapped players called up, Jake Ball of

:08:39. > :08:42.Nottinghamshire, the seam bowler, makes the squad and so does

:08:43. > :08:46.Hampshire batsman James Vince. Full details on the BBC website. The

:08:47. > :08:51.Headingley Test match begins next Thursday. Great Britain won their

:08:52. > :08:55.first gold of the European aquatic Championships last night next to Tom

:08:56. > :08:58.Daley and Grace Read in the mixed three metres synchronised diving. It

:08:59. > :09:02.was a good birthday present for Grace was 20 on Monday. It is a

:09:03. > :09:07.prising result given that they haven't been together for long. I

:09:08. > :09:11.don't what happened, we got put together ten days ago and we've done

:09:12. > :09:15.about five sessions and we've just come away, the European champions,

:09:16. > :09:19.on a board where I never train. I haven't done a hurdle step for six

:09:20. > :09:29.months. I'm over the moon with the way it went. It was great to have

:09:30. > :09:31.the home crowd and my family and Grace's family in the audience. It

:09:32. > :09:34.has been fun although I was terrified before the competition! I

:09:35. > :09:42.will be back with the headlines later, see you then, Joanna. Thank

:09:43. > :09:47.you. Migrants coming to the UK for a short-term stay has affected

:09:48. > :10:00.statistics to the point that they make have been misunderstood. In a

:10:01. > :10:03.word, basically, national insurance figures out today indicate how many

:10:04. > :10:06.people are here from abroad and working and therefore have a

:10:07. > :10:12.national insurance number. There is a disparity between those with

:10:13. > :10:15.national insurance numbers and those officially recorded as coming to the

:10:16. > :10:20.country. These are very technical figures. You perhaps need an

:10:21. > :10:24.advanced degree statistics to get your head around them. But it comes

:10:25. > :10:29.down to is trying to give an answer to a row that's been developing in

:10:30. > :10:32.the last year or so it in government, some economists, and

:10:33. > :10:36.critically, campaigners against membership of the EU about the true

:10:37. > :10:41.level of European Union migration. In short this is what the picture

:10:42. > :10:45.is. We have an official estimate for long-term immigration to the UK.

:10:46. > :10:51.Within that we know this and estimated quarter of a million EU

:10:52. > :10:57.migrants coming to live in the UK, in the year September 20 15. Coming

:10:58. > :11:00.to settle here. Maybe with families. They've got a long-term job, they

:11:01. > :11:06.are here. Maybe they students as well. But the figure of a national

:11:07. > :11:10.insurance numbers which all of us have is much higher. Almost three

:11:11. > :11:18.times higher than the estimates of immigration. What critics have said

:11:19. > :11:24.is, how can a national insurance number be 665,000 four the Nabokov

:11:25. > :11:29.EU workers or citizens, and the figure for migration be so much

:11:30. > :11:33.lower! The acquisition has been that this has been some kind of cover up.

:11:34. > :11:36.If you reconcile the figures and becomes a smoking gun for the true

:11:37. > :11:42.level of EU migration. It's much more complex than that. The

:11:43. > :11:48.difference according to the Office of National Statistics is about

:11:49. > :11:51.short-term migration. What our official migration statistics count

:11:52. > :11:56.is people coming here for one year or more. Not people coming on short

:11:57. > :12:00.term contracts. An example, in the East of England every summer and

:12:01. > :12:07.autumn tens of thousands of people come from Eastern Europe to pick

:12:08. > :12:12.carrots and potatoes and broccoli. Short-term migrants, the end of that

:12:13. > :12:16.contract they will go home. They need a national insurance number to

:12:17. > :12:20.be paid and claim tax credits were necessary to pay their taxes but

:12:21. > :12:23.they will not show up in the official immigration statistics

:12:24. > :12:27.because they go home. Another example of a difference, some people

:12:28. > :12:31.with national Insurance numbers who are EU citizens leave the country

:12:32. > :12:36.after years but still have an active number. An experienced, my father is

:12:37. > :12:40.Italian, you doesn't live in the UK any more but because he has a

:12:41. > :12:44.British pension and acids in this country he's got a national

:12:45. > :12:48.insurance number. So this is a complex picture -- he doesn't live

:12:49. > :12:54.in the UK but he has assets in this country. So the true level of

:12:55. > :13:01.migration is the quarter of a million figure quoted? That they is

:13:02. > :13:05.an estimate, the ONS says it is 95% confident it's got it right -- that

:13:06. > :13:11.figure is an estimate. That figure has been regularly criticised in the

:13:12. > :13:15.past. At an early stage of migration the oh and as acknowledged it was

:13:16. > :13:20.not doing enough to count people coming from other parts of the

:13:21. > :13:25.country, doing well at counting people coming through Heathrow or

:13:26. > :13:29.Dover but struggling at people coming to other airports. It thinks

:13:30. > :13:33.it has got the figure right but that figure does not include this

:13:34. > :13:38.short-term migration. What we know from other figures including the

:13:39. > :13:43.census is the total of EU migrants in the UK is about 3 million. A lot

:13:44. > :13:47.of them are here. So what it indicates is that there are a lot of

:13:48. > :13:53.people coming from abroad to work here. In migration circles this is

:13:54. > :14:03.called global children. People maximising their right to freedom of

:14:04. > :14:04.movement around the world. -- global churn. They go home, although they

:14:05. > :14:08.might come back later. Let's talk to two Europeans

:14:09. > :14:10.who moved here to work. From Tilbury in Essex,

:14:11. > :14:13.Polish lorry driver Andrew Lipinski who says new migrants

:14:14. > :14:15.are damagng his income and Spanish graphic designer Pablo Lladosa

:14:16. > :14:28.who moved to London Thank you both for joining us.

:14:29. > :14:32.Andrew, you have been working in the UK for 12 years but you are not

:14:33. > :14:36.happy about other people coming here, undermining what you are

:14:37. > :14:45.doing. Talk to us about that. Good morning everyone. I came to England

:14:46. > :14:53.to work, like many people as soon as Poland joined the EU, as an HGV

:14:54. > :14:58.driver. I had been doing this job in Poland for about eight years. And

:14:59. > :15:06.then I started work in England but before England, I worked in Ireland.

:15:07. > :15:13.I can tell you my experience from Ireland, in 2002, I started working

:15:14. > :15:19.in Ireland, I got a permit for work and everything. It was fine. Work is

:15:20. > :15:27.fantastic. I'm Polish but I complain as well at this moment, as soon as

:15:28. > :15:33.Poland joined the EU, might work in Ireland completely changed. -- my

:15:34. > :15:39.work changed. Because so many people came to work with our company that

:15:40. > :15:44.the owner of the company, the boss, tried to force us to break the law

:15:45. > :15:52.and do stuff like this on the road. Mainly working overtime, illegally.

:15:53. > :15:57.He said, look, I have ten people, 50 people in your place, if you don't

:15:58. > :16:01.do this you can go home. That's what happened to me in Ireland. So I had

:16:02. > :16:07.to leave the country so I could find work in England and that is what

:16:08. > :16:14.I've done, so in 2004, I finished work in Ireland, and I started

:16:15. > :16:24.working England. It was good work until the EU started to expand and

:16:25. > :16:29.new countries joined. Again, a similar situation happened to in

:16:30. > :16:33.Ireland, to me. I have to look for somewhere else to work now, because

:16:34. > :16:41.I can't afford to pay my mortgage any more. My wage, my rate of pay,

:16:42. > :16:47.is frozen, 12 years, it hasn't risen at all. Actually it's falling. When

:16:48. > :16:52.you say you need to look for someone else, are you saying that you will

:16:53. > :16:59.leave England? Yes, I'm thinking of going to Australia now. Because

:17:00. > :17:06.Poland is a member of the EU now. It should be fantastic and it is not

:17:07. > :17:11.fantastic at all. Mr Donald Tusk, the president of Europe... I want to

:17:12. > :17:16.bring in Pablo. Thank you, Andrew. Pablo, you have a different

:17:17. > :17:24.perspective. First, it's really hard to find a job. That is something

:17:25. > :17:31.that we know. But I don't think it is about someone else getting your

:17:32. > :17:36.job. In this case, I am not sure, what can I say about this case? I'm

:17:37. > :17:42.pretty sure that the amount of migrants we have in the UK is really

:17:43. > :17:53.good. More opportunities, more jobs, more business. I am not sure how

:17:54. > :17:59.accurate this is, saying someone else is getting my job. Why did you

:18:00. > :18:04.choose to come to England? I was a graphic designer, working in Madrid.

:18:05. > :18:09.I came to London for more opportunities here. What were the

:18:10. > :18:13.pull factors? These issues always get discussed around these

:18:14. > :18:19.conversations, national minimum wage and benefits. Did those come into

:18:20. > :18:26.play for you? Yes, the truth is that in the UK, the national wage is

:18:27. > :18:33.better than in many countries in Europe. So I think this is why loads

:18:34. > :18:44.of people are coming here. I think it's good to have new people, this

:18:45. > :18:53.is attracting very talented people from Europe. So we can create more

:18:54. > :18:58.business, I like it that there are more people here. More migrants.

:18:59. > :19:09.Coming quickly, Andrew, we are almost out of time. Yes, more

:19:10. > :19:17.people, more money, but is not the point. Tesco or Sainsbury's, they

:19:18. > :19:25.are looking for the cheapest Labour possible. Is the national minimum

:19:26. > :19:32.wage which has up wages. ?7 50, I have to pay a mortgage. I'm an HGV

:19:33. > :19:44.driver. I need lots of assessments and tests. You want me to work for

:19:45. > :19:47.?7 50? I'm sorry. How should I pay the English mortgage? I'm talking

:19:48. > :19:50.about an English mortgage, not abolish mortgage or a Spanish

:19:51. > :19:59.mortgage which is on a different level. -- not a Polish mortgage.

:20:00. > :20:04.Today Tesco is applying people for ?7 50, maybe drivers for ?10 an

:20:05. > :20:11.hour. This is before tax. I could afford to work for this money. That

:20:12. > :20:14.was 12 years ago. Not today. It is good to hear your perspective, both

:20:15. > :20:22.of you, Andrew and Pablo, thank you both. The Internet is now home to

:20:23. > :20:27.countless imitations of Viagra, we have learned that the market for

:20:28. > :20:30.fake Viagra is growing. In the last year officers have seized more than

:20:31. > :20:35.in any previous year and it now accounts for 90% of all illegal

:20:36. > :20:39.medicines. Users are putting their health at serious risk. Our reporter

:20:40. > :20:41.Jean MacKenzie went on a raid with officers trying to find the fakes

:20:42. > :20:51.and catch the dealers. Many of these drugs are made in

:20:52. > :20:57.unhygienic non-sophisticated locations. Any heavy metal product

:20:58. > :21:09.that could be toxic, like lead, like arsenic, etc. Open the door!

:21:10. > :21:14.Unlicensed Viagra is big business. More was seized last year in the UK

:21:15. > :21:19.than ever before. Most of it heading for the Internet. Viagra has been an

:21:20. > :21:23.amazing drag in anyways -- many ways, the only drug of its kind in

:21:24. > :21:28.many ways and it has revolutionised the lives of people physically and

:21:29. > :21:34.psychologically. The pills are sold cheap at around ?2 each, they may be

:21:35. > :21:40.imitations of Viagra, or a generic Indian version of the drug. They are

:21:41. > :21:49.shipped to the UK in bulk, packaged and posted on, customers not sure

:21:50. > :21:53.what is inside. There may be many more people than we know about

:21:54. > :21:58.taking it over the Internet and using it in a completely unregulated

:21:59. > :22:01.way. We are in a raid with the agency that regulates medicines in

:22:02. > :22:07.the hope that they can find some fakes. The person we are going to

:22:08. > :22:12.see this morning is involved in the sale and supply of unlicensed

:22:13. > :22:19.medicines. Mostly erectile dysfunctional medicines, what people

:22:20. > :22:23.know as Viagra. We have learned that officers seized more than ?11

:22:24. > :22:28.million worth of these erectile dysfunction drugs last year, many

:22:29. > :22:34.more than in previous years, these drugs made up 90% of all the illegal

:22:35. > :22:45.medicine that they found. It's quite a nerve wracking moment, heading off

:22:46. > :22:54.to a job like this. By way of? Aware of. -- we are off. Open the door.

:22:55. > :23:02.This is the agency's biggest ever operation. It has 24 search warrants

:23:03. > :23:08.and 50 officers across London. Lead us get it under control first. She

:23:09. > :23:13.won't let you in. Please don't record, we are a respectable family.

:23:14. > :23:18.We neither smoke or drink. I beg to differ. When you go onto the website

:23:19. > :23:22.and you have a picture of a pharmacist with a white coat and a

:23:23. > :23:26.stethoscope and it all looks above board, your medicines are not coming

:23:27. > :23:31.from a pharmacy, they coming from a street like this. We have recovered

:23:32. > :23:34.medicines being sold, they've been in a shed in the back garden that.

:23:35. > :23:42.And rotten, rats and mice crawling all over this stuff! -- a shed that

:23:43. > :23:46.was damp and rotten. So how can you spot a fake? We've come to a

:23:47. > :23:51.counterfeit testing lab run by Pfizer, the drug company that makes

:23:52. > :23:56.Viagra. How do you know this isn't real? The first obvious difference

:23:57. > :24:01.is that in a genuine pack writing for the product name is blue and on

:24:02. > :24:06.the counterfeit product it is green. In Pfizer we will test products

:24:07. > :24:11.around the globe and we have found counterfeit products in 111

:24:12. > :24:15.countries. Two they know that they are buying fakes, or is this a

:24:16. > :24:18.choice? If they've no reference against which to match it they may

:24:19. > :24:25.not know it is a counterfeit product. These are the two tablets

:24:26. > :24:31.side-by-side. Which one is the real one? This one is the counterfeit

:24:32. > :24:34.product. You can see immediately that it is a different shade of blue

:24:35. > :24:39.to the original product on the right-hand side. We know that this

:24:40. > :24:48.is not a genuine Pfizer product. Although you do not know what is in

:24:49. > :24:52.it. We don't know what is in it. So we have taken a sample of what we

:24:53. > :24:56.think is the counterfeit product, we've put it on this machine, this

:24:57. > :24:59.machine will do a chemical fingerprint on that sample and then

:25:00. > :25:04.we will look at the chemical fingerprint on the screen. There are

:25:05. > :25:08.clearly differences between the red trace and the purple trays which is

:25:09. > :25:13.indicative that it is not a general product. How much harm is there to

:25:14. > :25:17.the patient if they get something roughly the same? Sometimes the

:25:18. > :25:22.counterfeit can be close enough, the much is reasonably good but other

:25:23. > :25:26.times, maybe because of a lack of medication or too much medication

:25:27. > :25:29.within the product, other agents added that should not be in the

:25:30. > :25:33.product, they are toxic and the patient could come to significant

:25:34. > :25:38.harm. I had a number of people have severe side effects like visual

:25:39. > :25:41.problems, people could potentially faint, you could have dangerous

:25:42. > :25:49.reductions in blood pressure and even potentially heart problems. The

:25:50. > :25:55.woman here is arrested but officers have yet to find any pills. This was

:25:56. > :26:00.a big operation and you were searching a lot of properties. This

:26:01. > :26:06.must be disappointing. It is a bit disappointing not to find any major

:26:07. > :26:09.stock and sources of products, whatever they have been dealing in,

:26:10. > :26:17.the amounts have been small and spread across a number of addresses

:26:18. > :26:21.in order to evade detection. We have a store full of products that

:26:22. > :26:27.testifies to the fact that we do have an impact. This is where we

:26:28. > :26:34.keep all of our seized medicines. There are a lot of them, then! There

:26:35. > :26:39.are ?25 million worth of medicines here which has been collected over

:26:40. > :26:45.the past few years. All the medicines in here were found in the

:26:46. > :26:52.address that started this entire investigation. You see what I mean,

:26:53. > :26:57.they are kept in loose blisters, that could split open, there is no

:26:58. > :27:04.packaging, no boxes, no advice. The patient is taking this blind and

:27:05. > :27:07.placing all of their health trust in what is essentially a drug dealer.

:27:08. > :27:15.You are seizing more than ever before. Where has this market come

:27:16. > :27:24.from? This market, there's a youth market for this, it is used by adult

:27:25. > :27:29.males who don't actually have the medical condition that this could be

:27:30. > :27:34.prescribed for, the use that as sexual enhancement for the weekend.

:27:35. > :27:43.-- they use it as sexual enhancement the weekend. Increasingly younger

:27:44. > :27:47.people seem to be trying to obtain Viagra because they see it as some

:27:48. > :27:51.sort of recreational drug almost and they feel that it enhances and

:27:52. > :27:57.boosts them psychologically which it absolutely doesn't. A drug which

:27:58. > :28:02.only has physical effects, as it were, with respect to erectile

:28:03. > :28:05.dysfunction and that misconception is leading to younger people wanting

:28:06. > :28:11.to try it even if they don't need it. After dozens of searches and

:28:12. > :28:16.three arrests officers find a stash of pills but not as many as they had

:28:17. > :28:19.hoped, keeping up with the dealers has proved tricky. They know the

:28:20. > :28:26.only way to win is to stop people from taking them. That was Jean

:28:27. > :28:31.MacKenzie reporting on the online market for fake Viagra. Still to

:28:32. > :28:36.come. A man who admitted uploading pictures of his sister and other

:28:37. > :28:41.women onto pawn websites, causing them humiliation and distress, got

:28:42. > :28:46.police caution. His victims tell us they do not think that is enough.

:28:47. > :28:51.And on the final day of the Invictus Games in Florida we will be speaking

:28:52. > :28:55.live to one of the stars of team UK, Petty Officer Sean Gaffney on

:28:56. > :29:06.winning four medals, including two gold medals. It's almost 10:30am.

:29:07. > :29:11.Plans for an overhaul of the BBC are being set out by the government

:29:12. > :29:17.today. Here is the rest of the day 's news. Good morning everyone. The

:29:18. > :29:20.Trust which governs the BBC is expected to be abolished and the

:29:21. > :29:25.licence fee is expected to continue for at least another 11 years in

:29:26. > :29:30.plans to be set out by the Culture Secretary, John Whittingdale, this

:29:31. > :29:34.morning. For the first time, foreign companies that already have or want

:29:35. > :29:38.to buy property in the UK will have to reveal who owns it. It's one of

:29:39. > :29:41.the measures being announced by David Cameron on today at an

:29:42. > :29:44.international conference to fight global corruption or

:29:45. > :29:48.money-laundering. He's been explaining why he's been hosting the

:29:49. > :29:52.event. I believe corruption is the cancer at the heart of so many

:29:53. > :29:59.problems we need to tackle in our world if we want to see countries

:30:00. > :30:08.scape property, we need to tackle corruption. We need to tackle

:30:09. > :30:12.corruption. If we want to defeat terrorism and extremism, we need to

:30:13. > :30:15.recognise that corruption and lack of access to justice can often be

:30:16. > :30:16.the way people are driven towards extremism.

:30:17. > :30:19.lack of access to justice can be the way people are driven towards

:30:20. > :30:24.extremism. David Cameron will not take part in any EU referendum TV

:30:25. > :30:28.debates with Boris Johnson or other Conservatives. Downing Street says

:30:29. > :30:32.they don't want the campaign to turn into a fight between Tory

:30:33. > :30:36.politicians. Vote Leave, the official out campaign, accused

:30:37. > :30:41.impolite TV of taking sides after the broadcaster excluded them from a

:30:42. > :30:46.TV debate and invited far Nigel Farage to represent those who want

:30:47. > :30:51.to leave the EU. Migrants coming to Britain for short periods largely

:30:52. > :30:56.account for a gap in statistics which fuels figures are

:30:57. > :31:00.underestimated. The study published by the Office of National Statistics

:31:01. > :31:12.say the estimates and the registration of national insurance

:31:13. > :31:17.numbers to foreign Nashals. Days appeared after leaving a pub and was

:31:18. > :31:22.found unconscious on Sunday morning later in hospital, a 22-year-old

:31:23. > :31:27.man's also been charged with affray. That's the summary of the latest

:31:28. > :31:36.news. Join me for BBC News room live at 11.00. Now back to Joanna. Some

:31:37. > :31:42.breaking news on NHS statistics and the numbers of people admitted to

:31:43. > :31:48.A Hospitals in England saw the worst performance in A units in

:31:49. > :31:54.March since records began in 2004 according to these new statistics.

:31:55. > :31:59.87.3% of patients were treated or assessed in four hours. The target

:32:00. > :32:05.is 95%. They fell short of their target some way. More than two

:32:06. > :32:09.million patients went to A That us an up 7% come paired with March

:32:10. > :32:14.last year. It is the highest number of people attending A since

:32:15. > :32:19.records began on that in 2010. All the key NHS performance targets in

:32:20. > :32:22.England have been missed again, according to these hattest

:32:23. > :32:28.statistics, including ambulance response times, cancer treatment

:32:29. > :32:32.waiting times and waiting times for consultant-led treatment. Those

:32:33. > :32:35.figures coming through on NHS performance. Let's catch up with the

:32:36. > :32:38.store are sport. There were celebrations

:32:39. > :32:40.at the Stadium of Light though as Sam Allardyce's Sunderland

:32:41. > :32:43.maintained their place in the Premier League thanks

:32:44. > :32:46.to a 3-0 win over Everton. That win for Sunderland relegates

:32:47. > :32:49.their North East rivals Newcastle - they will now join Norwich

:32:50. > :32:52.and Aston Villa in the Nottinghamshire fast bowler

:32:53. > :32:57.Jake Ball is one of two uncapped players in the squad for England's

:32:58. > :33:01.first test match against Sri Lanka The Hampshire captain James Vince

:33:02. > :33:05.has also been called up. And British diver Tom Daley's

:33:06. > :33:08.back to winning ways. He and Grace Reid have won Britain's

:33:09. > :33:13.first gold medal at the European The pair won the three metre syncro

:33:14. > :33:33.event amazing given they have only That's all the sport for now. Back

:33:34. > :33:37.to you. Thank you, in around 30 minutes, the culture secretary John

:33:38. > :33:41.whetting dale will outline his vision for the future of the BBC.

:33:42. > :33:44.Loads of you are getting in touch. #50i8' run through some of the

:33:45. > :33:50.emails, texts and tweets coming from you. I'll start with a round-up of

:33:51. > :33:55.some anti-BBC and then some pro-BBC. Some anti-'s first of all. Why can't

:33:56. > :34:00.we buy a television without the BBC's service? Time to give viewers

:34:01. > :34:08.a real option. Why are we forced to pay their fee. Cancel the licence

:34:09. > :34:11.fee and go pay-per-view. Why do peer people have to pay TV license when

:34:12. > :34:16.they are struggling to pay their household bills. The BBC BBC should

:34:17. > :34:20.not employ expensive talent to attract audience. The quality of

:34:21. > :34:24.programmes should do that. The writers would become important and

:34:25. > :34:28.get paid fairly. That goes back to something said in our discussions

:34:29. > :34:34.earlier. Some writers have to write for free. Sue, scrap the TV license

:34:35. > :34:38.put adds after the TV programmes and not during them. All they seem to

:34:39. > :34:43.make is cooking programmes or repeats. Row wean in an on e-mail, I

:34:44. > :34:47.should only pay for the BBC if I want it. I am a customer on Sky and

:34:48. > :34:52.knelt flicks. I am on low income. I can't afford to pay the BBC when I

:34:53. > :34:57.don't want to watch it. Some pros. The BBC in this country is unique.

:34:58. > :35:01.They can get a mixture of TV channels and radio stations for less

:35:02. > :35:04.than ?1 a day. Keep it independent from the Government. It needs to be

:35:05. > :35:11.different from other broad Kisters. Otherwise. What is the point of

:35:12. > :35:14.having it. I grew up in Africa. If it wasn't for the BBC we wouldn't

:35:15. > :35:20.know what was happening. Stop Melsing with it. Margaret the reason

:35:21. > :35:24.e-mail, leave the BBC alone. If you make them state how much they are

:35:25. > :35:28.paying people, all companies should do that. The BBC is the best TV

:35:29. > :35:33.channel in this country. It is admired worldwide. John, if it inti'

:35:34. > :35:39.broke, don't fix it. -- ain't broke. Violated, humiliated

:35:40. > :35:42.and left feeling guilty. These are the words of victims

:35:43. > :35:44.of revenge porn who've spoken to our programme

:35:45. > :35:46.after discovering their photos All three victims knew

:35:47. > :35:49.the perpetrator, Olly Whiting - Olly posted innocent photos

:35:50. > :35:53.from their social media profiles onto a site used

:35:54. > :35:56.for sexual gratification. When he was arrested,

:35:57. > :35:59.Olly admitted his crime but was released with a caution

:36:00. > :36:02.because it was his first offence His victims were frustrated

:36:03. > :36:06.at the police's decision and took to social media

:36:07. > :36:10.to voice their outrage. Their post went viral

:36:11. > :36:12.and Sussex Police has now Our reporter Jean Mackenzie has

:36:13. > :36:17.talked to three of his victims about the effect it's had

:36:18. > :36:19.on their life. Please be warned, the following film

:36:20. > :36:34.contains some graphic Nicky, you were the first to find

:36:35. > :36:39.out what Olly had done with these pictures. What did you find? There

:36:40. > :36:44.was quite a lot I found. There were pictures of myself and the girls

:36:45. > :36:49.here. Basically profile pictures taken from our Facebook, downloaded,

:36:50. > :36:52.uploaded on to another site. They were saying all these terrible

:36:53. > :36:56.things they wanted to do with us. Violent activities. Asking how much

:36:57. > :37:01.they wanted to pay and everything. It was really disgusting. Can you

:37:02. > :37:06.give me some examples? One said, I would love to beat her. Something

:37:07. > :37:31.like slit her throat. So when you saw the photos,

:37:32. > :37:34.what did you think? I could not believe that these

:37:35. > :37:46.things have gone online. And then when I started to realise

:37:47. > :37:49.what it was, I was angry, I was upset, I was confused

:37:50. > :37:52.and I realise my daughter I was scared to tell my partner

:37:53. > :37:56.that his little girl was on there, For some reason, I actually felt

:37:57. > :37:59.ashamed, even though You had the same, it was Nikki that

:38:00. > :38:04.alerted you to it, Charlotte. What did you find of yourself

:38:05. > :38:06.on the site? Just normal pictures of me,

:38:07. > :38:08.just selfies I'd taken in my friend's car,

:38:09. > :38:10.just normal pictures With, you know, captions saying

:38:11. > :38:13.how much would you pay, ?100 to rape her, ?50

:38:14. > :38:15.to make her pregnant, How did it impact you to hear

:38:16. > :38:20.somebody that you knew as a friend, saying those things about you,

:38:21. > :38:22.asking people to do those I kind of was in disbelief,

:38:23. > :38:25.to start off with. I didn't want to believe

:38:26. > :38:28.that he had done that. I was questioning Nikki a lot,

:38:29. > :38:31.to make sure she definitely knew And then, obviously,

:38:32. > :38:34.once he had gone to the police and admitted it, that kind

:38:35. > :38:36.of finalised it for me. And Charley, the same happening

:38:37. > :38:49.to you, an added edge, So it's not something you expect

:38:50. > :38:58.to hear on a quiet evening. To know that your own brother can,

:38:59. > :39:04.one, have those thoughts, but then write that on a website

:39:05. > :39:07.to demoralise you in front And he had written the same sexually

:39:08. > :39:14.violent things under your pictures? He said he wanted to break my nose,

:39:15. > :39:21.throw me onto the bed and rape me, get me pregnant to remind me

:39:22. > :39:24.of the day he raped me, and just And also putting photos of me,

:39:25. > :39:29.in my school uniform, when I was only 16 years old,

:39:30. > :39:32.and writing disgusting Could you believe that was your

:39:33. > :39:37.brother who had done that? I thought, this isn't

:39:38. > :39:43.Olly, I know Olly. But the more it went on,

:39:44. > :39:49.he was named and it kind of settled in then that maybe I didn't know him

:39:50. > :39:52.as well as I thought I did. Did any of you ever think

:39:53. > :39:55.he had this in him? Did you see it coming,

:39:56. > :39:58.or was it a total shock? He was such a likeable person,

:39:59. > :40:05.so bubbly, easy to talk to, that you never would have

:40:06. > :40:10.believed he had this in him. So you were the first

:40:11. > :40:13.to report him to the police. They were, like, "He's not

:40:14. > :40:21.really your friend, is he?" "It doesn't sound

:40:22. > :40:23.like he's your friend." "Maybe you should just block him

:40:24. > :40:25.and report him to Facebook?" And I was, like, well,

:40:26. > :40:27.I don't think Facebook It's not the problem

:40:28. > :40:30.that they are on Facebook, it's the problem that they have been

:40:31. > :40:33.taken from Facebook It just felt like I had been fobbed

:40:34. > :40:38.off and told, like a teacher says to a kid, just

:40:39. > :40:41.ignore him, it'll go away. Didn't know about revenge porn

:40:42. > :40:45.as a crime when you did report it? Yes, that's why I thought,

:40:46. > :40:49.I can definitely report it The girl was, like, "Oh,

:40:50. > :40:55.yeah, we have your report here. But I'll just take more

:40:56. > :40:57.details from you." She gave me a crime reference number

:40:58. > :41:01.and then got back to me ten minutes later, "Actually, it's not

:41:02. > :41:03.really a crime, it's You should be looking

:41:04. > :41:06.to getting a solicitor." I was, like, OK, I'll

:41:07. > :41:08.get a solicitor. Got a solicitor and they said,

:41:09. > :41:11."It's more of a criminal case, the police should be

:41:12. > :41:13.dealing with it." So I thought, no-one's

:41:14. > :41:15.going to help me. How did you feel, Charley,

:41:16. > :41:19.how did you feel when you heard It's not as if they were just

:41:20. > :41:24.put on a porn website, just photos, it was what he had

:41:25. > :41:27.written that was more Having a person walk free and be

:41:28. > :41:32.able to get on with their life, maybe meet someone one day,

:41:33. > :41:35.and know nothing about it, They, "It's OK, because he deleted

:41:36. > :41:44.the pictures of you off his I said it's not OK, that is not OK

:41:45. > :41:50.that they have been deleted Why do you think that it wasn't

:41:51. > :41:56.taken more seriously? Because he hadn't physically done

:41:57. > :41:58.anything, I think. Is that the issue, do you think,

:41:59. > :42:06.that revenge porn is a new crime, it has only been enforced

:42:07. > :42:09.for a year, police forces don't know Yeah, it's like there's not enough

:42:10. > :42:18.knowledge within this area. Which is a shame, really,

:42:19. > :42:22.because now cases like this are not One of the issues is that none

:42:23. > :42:28.of the pictures of you three were sexually explicit

:42:29. > :42:30.in their nature. You were not naked, they were just

:42:31. > :42:34.social media photos. I know he did upload some naked

:42:35. > :42:37.photos of other girls. Does that make a difference

:42:38. > :42:40.in your eyes, Nikki? I think it makes a difference

:42:41. > :42:45.for us, justice-wise, because we are in that weird

:42:46. > :42:48.catchment, they are not naked, so he can't get done for putting

:42:49. > :42:51.naked photos of us online. They are ones we have

:42:52. > :42:55.uploaded to a public forum, so you want anybody to see them,

:42:56. > :42:58.that the way he has treated them, In a way, it has made it harder

:42:59. > :43:04.to fight our case. At the same time, people

:43:05. > :43:06.just hear revenge porn, and they think we have sent

:43:07. > :43:09.photos of us to him, nude. I'm in a rollneck

:43:10. > :43:12.in one of my photos. Do you feel, Charley,

:43:13. > :43:19.as violated as if somebody had put Because he has made those innocent

:43:20. > :43:27.pictures, now every time I look at them,

:43:28. > :43:29.that is all I can of. Sussex Police said,

:43:30. > :43:39.when I look at this, that a few of the reasons

:43:40. > :43:42.they just gave him a caution was that he had shown remorse and,

:43:43. > :43:45.also, that he had deleted It didn't change my opinion

:43:46. > :43:55.on the whole situation at all. If anything, I just thought

:43:56. > :43:59.it was more of a joke situation that that is how they can just let him

:44:00. > :44:03.get away with it, just It doesn't matter that they are

:44:04. > :44:08.being viewed by thousands of men, Actually in the year that revenge

:44:09. > :44:25.porn has been a crime, the majority of cases have ended

:44:26. > :44:30.in no action being taken. Do you think this is still seen

:44:31. > :44:34.as something people can get away with, and something

:44:35. > :44:37.that girls like you We looked at as if we are just

:44:38. > :44:52.being silly, taking it to the extremes,

:44:53. > :44:54.taking it too personally. Charley, what do you think needs

:44:55. > :44:56.to happen to support girls People need to be aware

:44:57. > :45:03.that there are so many different types of revenge porn, it can go

:45:04. > :45:05.from innocent photos, like us, As we're are not actually naked,

:45:06. > :45:10.nobody takes it seriously. It needs to be discussed

:45:11. > :45:14.and the police need to be more aware It's my brother, I've lost part

:45:15. > :45:18.of my family now. It's just been brushed off

:45:19. > :45:26.as if we are just overreacting. Police have said that they are going

:45:27. > :45:29.to look again at your case. It's good that it's

:45:30. > :45:34.going to get reviewed. But it is just sad that it had

:45:35. > :45:37.to take our own action before I don't think that, if we weren't

:45:38. > :45:43.as confident as we are, if we weren't as headstrong

:45:44. > :45:46.that we were going to do this and go for it, I think we would really

:45:47. > :45:49.struggle to get the justice Sussex police have given us

:45:50. > :45:55.the following response: "We recognise the nature

:45:56. > :45:57.of the captions and comments used We took the decision to issue

:45:58. > :46:03.a caution based on all the factors available to us, including

:46:04. > :46:04.the offender's remorse, the nature of the offences

:46:05. > :46:06.and the likelihood of the caution being effective

:46:07. > :46:11.in preventing reoffending. It's important to note that

:46:12. > :46:14.while two of the images were of a sexual nature,

:46:15. > :46:16.the others were taken from social media and were neither

:46:17. > :46:18.explicit nor indecent. This decision fits

:46:19. > :46:19.the national framework We have contacted the website

:46:20. > :46:33.to request the images be removed." Four days, 500 athletes, a dozen

:46:34. > :46:36.events, a first lady and a Prince - today marks the final day

:46:37. > :46:38.of the Invictus Games. Founded by Prince Harry in 2014,

:46:39. > :46:41.the games are open to all wounded, injured and sick serving

:46:42. > :46:44.personnel and veterans. The competitive spirit has been high

:46:45. > :46:47.from the start with this video of the Queen and her

:46:48. > :47:10.grandson going viral. The American man here, he was

:47:11. > :47:14.incredibly fast. Oh, a message. It's from the shelves. How very amusing.

:47:15. > :47:22.Shall we watch it together? -- it's from Michelle. Remember when you

:47:23. > :47:26.told us to bring it up the Invictus Games? Careful what you wish for!

:47:27. > :47:31.Really? Please! ! Well, Prince Harry got a surprise

:47:32. > :47:34.when he presented the 100 metre freestyle gold swimming medal

:47:35. > :47:36.to an American soldier. After the Prince placed

:47:37. > :47:38.the medal around the neck of Sergeant Elizabeth Marks,

:47:39. > :47:40.she asked him to return it to Papworth Hospital in Cambridge,

:47:41. > :47:43.as a thank you for saving her life. Sergeant Marks was treated

:47:44. > :47:47.there on the eve of the first games in 2014 in London,

:47:48. > :47:49.when she collapsed with She won all four swimming events

:47:50. > :48:00.she entered at this year's games. The UK has sent a team of 110

:48:01. > :48:04.to Orlando, Florida and we can speak now to Petty Officer Sean Gaffney,

:48:05. > :48:12.who has won four medals. You are proudly wearing them,

:48:13. > :48:19.congratulations. Good morning, thank you. That is a great achievement for

:48:20. > :48:29.you. Tell us how important these games are to you? Immeasurably

:48:30. > :48:33.important. It is a huge honour to be here, competing, not only for my

:48:34. > :48:36.country, but with fellow servicemen from around the world who have

:48:37. > :48:42.overcome such huge obstacles to be here. It is not just the games, it

:48:43. > :48:46.is being in the hotel with them, it is relaxing by the pool with them.

:48:47. > :48:52.It is bringing a whole family together. What have you overcome,

:48:53. > :49:00.what were your injuries? I was initially injured in 1999. I was

:49:01. > :49:03.training to be part of a group that were computing at Earls Court.

:49:04. > :49:11.Unfortunately, I have a sporting injury on my foot. After four

:49:12. > :49:17.months, it had to be removed due to septicaemia. Then it was a fight to

:49:18. > :49:20.get fit enough to stay serving with the Royal Navy and continue on

:49:21. > :49:32.operational deployments around the world. The term Invictus means

:49:33. > :49:38.unconquered, you had your foot amputated and had cancer in the same

:49:39. > :49:45.12 months and it didn't beat you? Invictus sums it up perfectly. I

:49:46. > :49:50.know it only came along in 2014, thanks to Prince Harry, but the idea

:49:51. > :49:57.of being unbeaten, not stopping or giving up the fight, it would never

:49:58. > :50:03.occur to me. When I had my accident, being surrounded by the service

:50:04. > :50:07.meant that I had been, the only way was to fight on. What does it mean

:50:08. > :50:12.for you and everybody else that Prince Harry is doing this, that he

:50:13. > :50:17.is getting behind you guys and sending out a very powerful message

:50:18. > :50:21.about what you can do? Sorry, could you say that again? What does it

:50:22. > :50:24.mean to you and everybody else that Prince Harry has done this and is

:50:25. > :50:35.getting behind you all in such a public way, saying, look what these

:50:36. > :50:38.people can do? Again, it is... Without Prince Harry, we would not

:50:39. > :50:43.be sat here, without his drive, ambition and passion for the

:50:44. > :50:49.servicemen, and he is a servicemen, without him, without his background,

:50:50. > :50:54.without his knowledge of who we are and what were capable of, this would

:50:55. > :50:57.not happen. Did have a moment when you lost your foot, when you feared

:50:58. > :51:14.that your career in the military might be over? I was about 28 years

:51:15. > :51:22.of age, full of foolish Corrado. -- foolish bravado. I found out that

:51:23. > :51:26.staying in the Navy with one leg, it is not as romantic as it seems, and

:51:27. > :51:31.it requires some work. Luckily, they gave me the chance to prove that I

:51:32. > :51:35.could do it. They let me stay and I had a full and fantastic career

:51:36. > :51:39.since. Well done to you. Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the rest of the

:51:40. > :51:45.games. Almost over, but a bit more to enjoy. Thank you.

:51:46. > :51:51.Let's talk about the BBC. What do you want from the BBC and how should

:51:52. > :51:55.be run? Later this morning, the government will reveal how it thinks

:51:56. > :52:00.a future BBC should look. One thing being suggested is that any stars

:52:01. > :52:03.earning more than ?450,000 should be named and their salaries made

:52:04. > :52:07.public, which could include people like Gary Lineker and Graham Norton.

:52:08. > :52:12.Culture Secretary John Whittingdale is also expected to announce plans

:52:13. > :52:16.to abolish the BBC Trust, the people that govern the BBC, and replace it

:52:17. > :52:20.with a new board. The proposals are also expected to say the licence fee

:52:21. > :52:24.will continue for at least another 11 years. In future, only those who

:52:25. > :52:30.pay the licence fee will be able to use BBC iPlayer. One of the people

:52:31. > :52:36.whose salaries would be published is Chris Evans. In the last few minutes

:52:37. > :52:40.he was asked how he would feel. I don't have an opinion either way, if

:52:41. > :52:44.it is, it is, if it isn't, it isn't. It is nothing to do with me, I do

:52:45. > :52:49.what I do, I get paid what I get paid, I love my job. My dad was a

:52:50. > :52:53.wages clerk, my mother was a nurse, my sister was a teacher, my brother

:52:54. > :52:57.is a nurse, they work in the real world. We know none of them get paid

:52:58. > :53:04.what they should get paid. Show business is ridiculous. If you are

:53:05. > :53:07.doing a job where the end result is that you make money for another

:53:08. > :53:15.company, then that can be reflected in your wages. But a lot of people,

:53:16. > :53:19.a lot of BBC shows are brilliant because of the way they are

:53:20. > :53:25.produced, the way they are written, the way they are filmed. It is not

:53:26. > :53:29.really about who hosts them. You could get a lot of people to host

:53:30. > :53:30.them and the shows would still be successful because the base product

:53:31. > :53:46.is of such quality. Would you say that salaries like he

:53:47. > :53:50.was not helping the case of the BBC? Again, that is a management thing, a

:53:51. > :53:55.long-term, philosophical thing. I'm being very honest, my thought

:53:56. > :53:59.process, I haven't got there yet, I can only deal with what I think. I

:54:00. > :54:03.have always had an opinion about show business. I've been in

:54:04. > :54:08.negotiations with celebrities about how much they get paid, because I

:54:09. > :54:13.produce programmes. I often say, why are we paying them this much, why

:54:14. > :54:20.can't we get to be else? Are you worried your salary will go down? Do

:54:21. > :54:24.I look worried? No, I am not worried, I love my job and I don't

:54:25. > :54:27.do it for the money, I do it because I love it and I think it makes a

:54:28. > :54:31.little bit of a difference, not much as a difference as some other

:54:32. > :54:35.people's jobs, but I think it helps a little bit. The BBC is worried

:54:36. > :54:39.that people like you will get poached if salaries are disclosed,

:54:40. > :54:44.what you think about that? I do my job here because I think it is the

:54:45. > :54:47.best place to do what I do for a living. Anybody could offer me... It

:54:48. > :54:55.is not a money thing, I don't come to work for it. Lets talk to Chris

:54:56. > :54:58.Curtis, the editor of Broadcast Magazine. Talking there about the

:54:59. > :55:03.fact that his salary is likely to be published, what do you think about

:55:04. > :55:07.the salaries and the fact that the level is ?450,000? Potentially

:55:08. > :55:10.awkward for the BBC, if you think about any normal working

:55:11. > :55:16.environment, salaries are closely guarded. The BBC already reveals how

:55:17. > :55:19.much it pays senior staff, the director general, the controllers of

:55:20. > :55:26.different channels etc. Those figures are out in the public

:55:27. > :55:29.domain. They have always resisted talent salaries being published. It

:55:30. > :55:34.can be awkward, it could lead to people being poached. It could lead

:55:35. > :55:37.to people to drive salaries down. The BBC is nervous about anything

:55:38. > :55:41.that might make it harder for them to secure the right people to front

:55:42. > :55:47.the shows. What you think about the fact it has been pegged at that

:55:48. > :55:53.level, other salaries are published at 150,000? Yes, talent pay in

:55:54. > :55:57.television, entertainment in general, is really high. There are

:55:58. > :56:01.other areas where it is high. Footballers earn more than managers

:56:02. > :56:06.do. Film stars earn more than the directors do. In this case,

:56:07. > :56:14.on-screen talent will earn more than the people that run the BBC. I think

:56:15. > :56:20.that there is no... All of this at the moment is to do with the

:56:21. > :56:24.relation that the BBC has to the commercial sector. Part of it is to

:56:25. > :56:28.try and ensure that the BBC is paying stars and appropriate amount

:56:29. > :56:32.of money, compared to the commercial sector. The public will not have

:56:33. > :56:37.visibility of the commercial sector. Let's talk about governance of the

:56:38. > :56:41.BBC and the BBC trust, the body that oversees the BBC if anybody

:56:42. > :56:45.complains, the BBC trust looks at those issues. A new body which will

:56:46. > :56:48.have some Government appointees on it, we're not sure at the moment

:56:49. > :56:53.what the level would be, possibly 50%. What do you think? That is a

:56:54. > :56:59.very controversial issue. The BBC Trust has been in existence for the

:57:00. > :57:03.existence of this -- duration of this charter. There is not a huge

:57:04. > :57:08.amount of support for it. It's incredibly likely it will be

:57:09. > :57:11.disbanded. Is it something the public care about particularly? I

:57:12. > :57:15.don't think the public care too much about which organisation regulates

:57:16. > :57:18.the BBC, but they wanted to be regulated properly. You were really

:57:19. > :57:23.have comments earlier. There is a vast range of public opinion. By and

:57:24. > :57:31.large, the independent research that is done, independent and by the BBC,

:57:32. > :57:35.there is a lot of latent goodwill, generally, the public likes what the

:57:36. > :57:40.BBC does. But it has to be held accountable, to make sure that it is

:57:41. > :57:45.spending its money wisely. The Trust has fallen between two stools,

:57:46. > :57:51.between cheerleader and regulator. So it wants a unitary board, which

:57:52. > :57:56.has a more hands-on role in holding BBC managers to account, that looks

:57:57. > :58:00.like the route they will go down. But who sits on it? What is their

:58:01. > :58:09.experience, their credentials? Trying to judge programme's'

:58:10. > :58:13.distinctiveness, scheduling, those things require nuance. We are

:58:14. > :58:16.heading fast to the moment when the Culture Secretary starts to speak.

:58:17. > :58:25.We can take a peek inside the Commons. He is not there yet.

:58:26. > :58:29.Coverage is coming up on Bbc Newsroom Live. Have a lovely

:58:30. > :58:31.afternoon. Bye-bye.