24/05/2016

:00:07. > :00:07.Hello, it's Tuesday, it's nine o'clock.

:00:08. > :00:10.I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

:00:11. > :00:13.Coming up - A group of MPs says the Ministry of Defence is failing

:00:14. > :00:16.in its duty of care to British troops by prescribing them

:00:17. > :00:26.the anti-malarial drug Lariam without proper health checks.

:00:27. > :00:30.The Ministry of Defence and the veterans agency are being quite

:00:31. > :00:37.resolute in their determination not to address the issue, that is very

:00:38. > :00:41.sad. It is an awful indictment on the way that we do things at the way

:00:42. > :00:46.that we are supposed to carry about people who have been damaged, making

:00:47. > :00:49.sure that people are protect that. -- protected.

:00:50. > :00:51.Lawyers say there's a growing number of military personnel coming forward

:00:52. > :00:53.wanting compensation for taking the drug.

:00:54. > :00:55.Also ahead: A restaurant owner who put profit before safety

:00:56. > :00:58.is starting a six year jail sentence for the manslaughter

:00:59. > :01:00.of a customer who had an allergic reaction to a curry.

:01:01. > :01:02.Also, would you go to Tunisia in the wake

:01:03. > :01:07.After a 90% drop in British holiday-makers bookings

:01:08. > :01:13.to the country, officials say the UK needs to relax its travel warnings.

:01:14. > :01:15.I think there's a big gap between the perception

:01:16. > :01:19.here of the level of security and the real security on the ground,

:01:20. > :01:26.When they read the travel advice, they may think, "No,

:01:27. > :01:44.Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11am this morning.

:01:45. > :01:47.We'd be interested to hear from you if the terrorist attacks

:01:48. > :01:49.in places like Tunisia and Turkey mean that you're

:01:50. > :01:52.We'll be live in Sousse later as figures show that bookings

:01:53. > :02:01.To get in touch - use the hashtag #victorialive and if you text,

:02:02. > :02:03.you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:04. > :02:06.Environmental campaigners say they'll continue to oppose fracking

:02:07. > :02:12.The drilling technique extracts gas and oil from deep underground,

:02:13. > :02:14.but is controversial because of concerns it causes

:02:15. > :02:21.Councillors voted last night in favour of drilling a site

:02:22. > :02:26.in Ryedale despite protests outside the meeting.

:02:27. > :02:28.Fracking had previously been banned after two small earthquakes

:02:29. > :02:46.Here in North Yorkshire campaigners have been fighting this

:02:47. > :02:52.I'm devastated because I feel like our councils have let us down.

:02:53. > :02:54.We think there's been a probably large Tory block vote

:02:55. > :02:57.when they didn't stand up and say why they were voting

:02:58. > :03:02.against what seems like eminently sensible reasons to refuse this.

:03:03. > :03:05.It was the most controversial application these councillors had

:03:06. > :03:07.ever had to consider, in the end it passed

:03:08. > :03:17.This is a landmark moment which puts this world and this site

:03:18. > :03:22.at the forefront of the fracking debate in Britain.

:03:23. > :03:26.This decision could yet face a legal challenge,

:03:27. > :03:28.but in theory they could be producing shale gas from here

:03:29. > :03:31.This decision could yet face a legal challenge,

:03:32. > :03:34.in the North Yorkshire countryside by the end of the year.

:03:35. > :03:37.The well at Kirby Misperton was drilled in 2013.

:03:38. > :03:40.The fracking will take place at depths of 7,000-10,000 feet.

:03:41. > :03:43.Sandwater and chemicals will be injected at high pressure,

:03:44. > :03:47.opening up fractures in the shale rocks, allowing gas to escape and be

:03:48. > :03:55.Third Energy could now be fracking by the end of the year.

:03:56. > :03:59.We are relieved and glad we have the permission.

:04:00. > :04:02.That and the work that has gone into it should assure people

:04:03. > :04:04.that we will execute the work safely and without any

:04:05. > :04:12.The Government welcomed this decision.

:04:13. > :04:15.Friends of the Earth said it was considering a judicial review.

:04:16. > :04:18.A shale gas revolution in Britain still faces challenges ahead.

:04:19. > :04:23.John Moylan, BBC News, North Yorkshire.

:04:24. > :04:29.Our correspondent John Maguire is in Northallerton.

:04:30. > :04:40.Good morning. As we have heard, a very controversial decision. Tell us

:04:41. > :04:43.more about the reaction. Controversial, contentious, it has

:04:44. > :04:48.very much divided opinion. When you look at the numbers involved in this

:04:49. > :04:51.meeting over the last couple of years, the evidence submitted to the

:04:52. > :04:58.planning councils who made the decision last night, it seems rather

:04:59. > :05:03.one-sided. They had 4500 objections, only 36 people in favour. But for

:05:04. > :05:06.two days, councillors from North Yorkshire County Council on the

:05:07. > :05:11.planning committee sat here and considered all the evidence put

:05:12. > :05:15.before them. They heard from 100 people. A two-day planning committee

:05:16. > :05:19.is a very, very long meeting indeed. They have of course realised that

:05:20. > :05:25.there was emphasis and focus on them that there has not been... That you

:05:26. > :05:30.would not normally get in a planning committee. As we heard just now,

:05:31. > :05:36.there is a moratorium in place until 2012 after the earth tremors at the

:05:37. > :05:39.site in Lancashire, but for the last four years there have been other

:05:40. > :05:44.similar proposals considered. This is the first want to be given the

:05:45. > :05:50.green light. Talking to the council earlier, it said it had taken its

:05:51. > :05:54.duty very, very responsibly. There are strict planning restrictions in

:05:55. > :05:57.place. Obviously the Environment Agency will also monitor the

:05:58. > :06:03.situation will stop the company itself that there is no cause for

:06:04. > :06:06.celebration at the moment, it takes its responsibility very seriously

:06:07. > :06:10.and it may take some time before they extract gas from underground.

:06:11. > :06:15.The Thursday they need to do is figure out whether or not it is

:06:16. > :06:19.feasible and economic be feasible, whether it has a future and is

:06:20. > :06:24.desirable for the company to go ahead and turn this into a viable

:06:25. > :06:28.fracking site. As regard to the campaigners, hundreds have been here

:06:29. > :06:31.for the last couple of days and have said they will continue to fight on.

:06:32. > :06:36.They consortia of various environmental groups will be looking

:06:37. > :06:41.into drilling into the detail of exactly what was decided last night,

:06:42. > :06:45.what the restrictions on planning are, what the Environment Agency is

:06:46. > :06:50.expected to monitor. They are saying very much that the battle is not

:06:51. > :06:52.over, they will continue to fight for the days, weeks, maybe even

:06:53. > :06:54.years to come. Thank you very much. Annita is in the BBC

:06:55. > :06:57.Newsroom with a summary A group of MPs says the Ministry

:06:58. > :07:04.of Defence is failing to follow guidelines when prescribing

:07:05. > :07:05.a controversial anti-malarial Mefloquine - also known by its brand

:07:06. > :07:09.name Lariam - has been linked to depression,

:07:10. > :07:12.panic attacks and hallucinations. The Ministry of Defence

:07:13. > :07:14.says the vast majority of deployed personnel

:07:15. > :07:18.are given alternative drugs. Lariam is a once-a-week antimalarial

:07:19. > :07:23.tablet taken by British Its side-effects have been linked

:07:24. > :07:28.to severe depression Critics argue that it's especially

:07:29. > :07:34.dangerous for soldiers in war zones, where they're more vulnerable

:07:35. > :07:38.to mental health problems. In '99 I went to Bosnia

:07:39. > :07:40.for a six-month tour, and my wife said I was a changed

:07:41. > :07:47.man when I came back. Much shorter temper,

:07:48. > :07:49.very anxious, and I have been suffering from bouts

:07:50. > :07:55.of depression since then. And each bout of depression

:07:56. > :07:58.appears to get worse. 17,000 UK Armed Forces personnel

:07:59. > :08:03.were prescribed Lariam at least once between April

:08:04. > :08:10.2007 and March 2015. Over the same time period,

:08:11. > :08:12.approximately 104,000 UK Armed Forces personnel were given

:08:13. > :08:22.a different antimalarial drug. and when Lariam is given

:08:23. > :08:25.it is after a risk assessment. There will be more on this story

:08:26. > :08:39.with Joanna in a few moments. David Cameron is expected to say

:08:40. > :08:42.today that family holidays could be around ?200 more expensive if the UK

:08:43. > :08:45.leaves the EU. The Prime Minister is continuing

:08:46. > :08:49.on the referendum campaign trail Mr Cameron will say holiday price

:08:50. > :08:56.rises will be caused by a drop The Ukip leader Nigel Farage is also

:08:57. > :09:00.campaigning this morning Police in Greece have begun

:09:01. > :09:03.evacuating thousands of stranded migrants from the makeshift Idomeni

:09:04. > :09:08.camp on the Macedonia border. More than 8000 people,

:09:09. > :09:13.many of them women and children, have been living in the temporary

:09:14. > :09:15.camp since the border crossing and the route to northern Europe

:09:16. > :09:18.was closed in March. The operation began

:09:19. > :09:20.at dawn and is expected There are hundreds of riot police

:09:21. > :09:24.on site but officials say An EgyptAir flight that crashed

:09:25. > :09:29.in the Mediterranean did not swerve and change direction before

:09:30. > :09:30.disappearing, according The Airbus A320 was en route

:09:31. > :09:37.from Paris to Cairo with 66 people on board when it vanished

:09:38. > :09:43.from radar early on Thursday. Despite previous suggestions,

:09:44. > :09:44.the head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services

:09:45. > :09:52.says there was no unusual movement. We can speak to Sally Nabil

:09:53. > :10:03.now, who's in Cairo. Sally, is there any more information

:10:04. > :10:07.about why there is this discrepancy between what the Greeks were saying

:10:08. > :10:13.and the Egyptians were saying, that the plane's final moment? Actually,

:10:14. > :10:20.the Egyptian official did not explain how he came out with this

:10:21. > :10:25.conclusion. He was talking on one of the talk shows on one of the local

:10:26. > :10:29.TV channels overnight and just said, we did not record any twist

:10:30. > :10:32.Sauternes by the plains, as the Greeks have suggested, we just

:10:33. > :10:36.attracted one minute before it disappeared and could not

:10:37. > :10:40.communicate with the crew. He also said that the plane did not lose

:10:41. > :10:45.altitude, as the Greeks suggested earlier, but he did not give more

:10:46. > :10:50.evidence to support this hypothesis. So far, this cannot be considered

:10:51. > :10:52.unofficial confirmation. Neither Egyptair nor the Ministry of civil

:10:53. > :10:56.aviation have issued any state and regarding this, nor have they issued

:10:57. > :11:03.any state and to comment on the French reports suggesting smoke

:11:04. > :11:06.detection on board the plane. So far, the Egyptian authorities have

:11:07. > :11:10.been treading very carefully when it comes to the reasons behind the

:11:11. > :11:14.disappearance of the plane. What we understand so far is that forensic

:11:15. > :11:19.export -- experts have been examining human body parts that have

:11:20. > :11:23.been retrieved and transferred to a morgue in Cairo. Investigations are

:11:24. > :11:29.still under way, search operations are still ongoing, hoping to find

:11:30. > :11:33.the black box that plunged into the Mediterranean a few days ago. Thank

:11:34. > :11:35.you for that update, Sally Na Beale in Cairo.

:11:36. > :11:38.It's claimed that dogfights are taking place every day

:11:39. > :11:40.on Britain's streets as people use their dogs for protection

:11:41. > :11:44.The League Against Cruel Sports is calling for tougher penalties,

:11:45. > :11:46.a register of banned owners, and a review of the Dangerous Dogs

:11:47. > :11:50.Our home affairs correspondent Tom Symonds reports.

:11:51. > :11:57.This organised fight behind closed doors was filmed

:11:58. > :12:02.But the League Against Cruel Sports claims increasingly dogfighting

:12:03. > :12:10.This sort of confrontation, known as a roll in streets and parks,

:12:11. > :12:16.This is Cupcake, a vet believes she was used as so-called bait

:12:17. > :12:29.Now her scars have healed her mental recovery is underway,

:12:30. > :12:32.but her rescuer, who has asked us not to show her face,

:12:33. > :12:38.To victimise and torture a vulnerable creature

:12:39. > :12:47.Man up and if you have a lust for fighting then go

:12:48. > :12:55.At the moment we're seeing very few prosecutions taking place and those

:12:56. > :12:57.who are prosecuted are leading to very low custodial sentences,

:12:58. > :13:02.The charity wants them increased, a register of banned owners

:13:03. > :13:06.and a review of the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act.

:13:07. > :13:09.The government says that law is designed to help with animals out

:13:10. > :13:12.of control and the new requirement to microchip dogs will

:13:13. > :13:22.The United Nations has called for the urgent provision of safe

:13:23. > :13:24.corridors to allow civilians to leave the besieged

:13:25. > :13:28.Thousands of government troops and militia have started

:13:29. > :13:32.a military offensive to oust Islamic State fighters.

:13:33. > :13:34.UN officials estimate there are 50,000 civilians

:13:35. > :13:41.The Tunisian ambassador to the UK is urging the Foreign Office

:13:42. > :13:44.to change its guidance for British tourists.

:13:45. > :13:52.The official advice is to avoid all but essential travel

:13:53. > :13:55.Nabil Ammar's comments come after figures from

:13:56. > :13:58.the Tunisian Tourist Board show a 90% fall in UK visitors

:13:59. > :14:01.He says his country's government is doing its best

:14:02. > :14:12.When they read the travel advice they may think, OK,

:14:13. > :14:15.Whereas, for example, so many successes of our security

:14:16. > :14:17.forces, every week, you know, the terrorist cells

:14:18. > :14:32.This should give a positive image, not a negative one, saying

:14:33. > :14:38.One of the country's leading scientists has called for the ban

:14:39. > :14:40.on Genetically Modified crops in Europe to be reassessed.

:14:41. > :14:42.Professor Sir Venki Ramakrishnan, who is President of the Royal

:14:43. > :14:45.Society, said that GM crops had been misunderstood by the public

:14:46. > :14:48.and it was time to set the record straight.

:14:49. > :14:50.Last week, the US equivalent of the Royal Society concluded that

:14:51. > :14:57.But the Soil Association says there have been no long-term studies

:14:58. > :15:02.Chinese scientists have developed an experimental

:15:03. > :15:09.They are transplanting parts of the eyes of pigs into humans.

:15:10. > :15:11.China accounts for a fifth of the world's blind people

:15:12. > :15:13.and believes this new procedure could help with organ shortages

:15:14. > :15:20.The UK isn't expected to follow suit any time soon.

:15:21. > :15:22.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:15:23. > :15:29.Have you decided how you're going to vote

:15:30. > :15:33.Well, if you're still not sure whether to vote in or out,

:15:34. > :15:36.come along and take part in one of our big TV audience

:15:37. > :15:40.On 6th June, we're in Manchester - that's just over a fortnight

:15:41. > :15:45.It's open to everyone and will take place in our normal airtime

:15:46. > :15:51.If you want to take part and can get to Manchester from wherever

:15:52. > :15:53.you are in the UK, do e-mail victoria@bbc.co.uk

:15:54. > :15:55.to have your chance to quiz and listen to senior politicians

:15:56. > :16:17.Manchester United may have been accused of lacking class

:16:18. > :16:20.over their sacking of Louis van Gaal yesterday, but the manager

:16:21. > :16:22.did, at least, go out with some dignity yesterday.

:16:23. > :16:24.In a statement, he says he is "very disappointed"

:16:25. > :16:33.but thanked their "amazing fans" - "every member of the club's staff"

:16:34. > :16:35.and wished his players the best for the future.

:16:36. > :16:39.United are expected to resume talks today with Jose Mourinho

:16:40. > :16:44.Mourinho - seen here in London yesterday -

:16:45. > :16:47.Van Gaal still had a year left on his three year contract.

:16:48. > :16:50.The team's poor style of play this season was the main reason

:16:51. > :16:54.Things hang in the balance for Andy Murray in the French Open

:16:55. > :16:59.He will have to dig deep to avoid defeat when his match

:17:00. > :17:02.The world number two lost the first two sets

:17:03. > :17:24.But Murray fought back, winning the third 6-0.

:17:25. > :17:26.He managed to force a break in the fourth before

:17:27. > :17:29.Murray's Davis Cup team-mate Kyle Edmund said his match

:17:30. > :17:32.He came through in four sets, two of them tie-breaks,

:17:33. > :17:36.but he wrapped it up by taking the last by six games to one.

:17:37. > :17:37.Heather Watson won her rain-delayed first-round match.

:17:38. > :17:40.The British number two recovered from a break down in the deciding

:17:41. > :17:44.She'll now face the former French Open champion,

:17:45. > :17:54.I look forward to playing her. I've never played her before and she is a

:17:55. > :17:58.great player and been around a long time. She is very experienced so it

:17:59. > :18:01.will be a very tough match, but I am feeling really good about my game at

:18:02. > :18:05.the moment and I'm in a good place. Golf's world number three

:18:06. > :18:07.Rory McIlroy says he's concerned about the Zika virus,

:18:08. > :18:09.as he prepares to head to Rio McIlroy's in good form, winning

:18:10. > :18:13.the Irish Open at the weekend, but he says he has to consider

:18:14. > :18:16.the potential impact of the virus on his plans to start

:18:17. > :18:26.a family with his fiancee. Read ago lot of reports about zika

:18:27. > :18:30.and some articles have come out saying that it might be worst than

:18:31. > :18:33.what they're saying. So I have to monitor that situation as well

:18:34. > :18:37.because you know, there is going to be a point in time over the next

:18:38. > :18:41.couple of years where we're going to have, you know, think about starting

:18:42. > :18:45.a family and I don't want anything to affect that.

:18:46. > :18:47.Right now, I'm ready to go to the Olympics and go down to Rio and try

:18:48. > :18:51.to compete for a gold medal. NFL team the Pittsburgh Steelers

:18:52. > :18:55.have been experimenting They're using robot dummies -

:18:56. > :19:10.Mobile Virtual Players, They can accurately

:19:11. > :19:13.recreate the movements of an opposing player -

:19:14. > :19:23.they always run at the right speed - At 10am we will look at the

:19:24. > :19:26.situation with Manchester United with the football writer Jonathan

:19:27. > :19:28.Wilson. I will be back then. I like that little bit that you were just

:19:29. > :19:33.showing us, thank you. A controversial anti-malarial

:19:34. > :19:35.drug which is sometimes given to British troops -

:19:36. > :19:37.should only be prescribed That's according to a group of MPs

:19:38. > :19:44.who've been looking at Mefloquine which is often referred

:19:45. > :19:46.to by its brand name, Lariam, and has been linked

:19:47. > :19:48.to mental health illnesses. The danger of severe side-effects

:19:49. > :19:51.from using Lariam has been highlighted by both the manufacturer

:19:52. > :19:53.Roche and other witnesses As well as depression,

:19:54. > :19:56.the drug can cause panic The committee started work

:19:57. > :19:59.in November last year, which is when we spoke a former Army

:20:00. > :20:02.officer whose life changed He told Dan Johnson how

:20:03. > :20:06.he was affected. It's the persistent nightmare

:20:07. > :20:10.disorder that is so debilitating, and the dreadful night

:20:11. > :20:14.that I have every night, "why did I have those dreadful

:20:15. > :20:24.dreams and thoughts?" Andrew's problems with Lariam

:20:25. > :20:26.started when he was He says the Army didn't give him any

:20:27. > :20:38.choice about which drugs to take to protect him from malaria

:20:39. > :20:41.but he soon wished he It's left him with a sleep disorder

:20:42. > :20:45.and occasional anger issues. I will only ever sleep

:20:46. > :20:48.for about one hour at a time and the conclusion of that hour

:20:49. > :20:53.of sleep is a very vivid dream and probably about between one in ten

:20:54. > :20:59.and one in 20 of those dreams is For example, dreaming

:21:00. > :21:04.that you're in a burning Or another nightmare

:21:05. > :21:11.very often involves snakes, and I don't know if this

:21:12. > :21:14.relates to experience I have But those are the sort of dreams

:21:15. > :21:24.that I am prepared to talk about, but there are others on a scale way

:21:25. > :21:27.beyond that, and I've never discussed the content

:21:28. > :21:31.of those with anyone, It was actually given

:21:32. > :21:50.to me without my proper consent, and it was also

:21:51. > :21:53.given to me in the knowledge that I and other people were experiencing

:21:54. > :21:58.dreadful side effects but we were The Ministry of Defence

:21:59. > :22:11.and Veterans Agency have been quite resolute in their determination not

:22:12. > :22:14.to address the issue, and that's It's an awful indictment on the way

:22:15. > :22:20.that we do things and the way we are supposed

:22:21. > :22:23.to care about people who have been damaged

:22:24. > :22:25.and making sure that Professor Sanjeev Krishna

:22:26. > :22:36.is a Malaria expert and has published over 100 research papers

:22:37. > :22:39.on the subject. From our Westminster studio,

:22:40. > :22:41.we have Conservative MP, Dr Julian Lewis, who led

:22:42. > :22:53.the Defence Committee report Thank you both for joining us.

:22:54. > :22:57.Julian Lewis first of all, you are led the review. How concerned are

:22:58. > :23:03.you about the use of Lariam? We are very concerned, indeed. The reason

:23:04. > :23:08.that makes this case unusual is that the drugs own manufacturers laid

:23:09. > :23:13.down very stringent rules that they said must be followed if it is to be

:23:14. > :23:18.prescribed safely and it is pretty clear that those rules requiring

:23:19. > :23:23.face-to-face, individual risk assessments were not applied. Those

:23:24. > :23:27.procedures were not followed and therefore, the opportunity to screen

:23:28. > :23:32.out people who would be most likely to have these sort of side-effects

:23:33. > :23:37.was lost. What evidence did you uncover that led you to conclude

:23:38. > :23:43.that procedures were not followed? Well, there was extremely strong

:23:44. > :23:48.anecdotal evidence from people who would state to us that the drugs

:23:49. > :23:52.would be given out in just a routine way, without any such face-to-face

:23:53. > :23:59.interviews and what's more, from the MoD side, it was very disturb that

:24:00. > :24:04.they -- tis tushing that they professed to be unable to produce

:24:05. > :24:07.any evidence to prove these interviews had taken place. They

:24:08. > :24:11.admitted they couldn't guarantee it happened in every case, well, we

:24:12. > :24:16.strongly suspect it may not have happened in the majority of cases

:24:17. > :24:20.and a minister was good enough and open enough to offer an apology to

:24:21. > :24:25.and a minister was good enough and those members of the armed forces

:24:26. > :24:27.who might have been prescribed the drug without the appropriate

:24:28. > :24:27.safeguards and interviews drug without the appropriate

:24:28. > :24:34.been followed. I notice drug without the appropriate

:24:35. > :24:38.reply the Today programme, the MoD was quoted as saying that a risk

:24:39. > :24:42.assessment was always carried out, but what they didn't say was that a

:24:43. > :24:49.face-to-face risk assessment was always carried out and we think they

:24:50. > :24:52.may have done what they called desk-based risk assessments, where

:24:53. > :24:58.they might look at somebody's paper records and say, "OK, it is OK to

:24:59. > :25:00.give to it to him or her." What you're referring to there is a

:25:01. > :25:04.statement from you're referring to there is a

:25:05. > :25:06.Defence which says, "The vast majority of deployed

:25:07. > :25:07.Defence which says, "The vast already receive alternatives to

:25:08. > :25:13.Lariam and where it is used, we already receive alternatives to

:25:14. > :25:17.require it to be prescribed after an individual risk assessment." Are you

:25:18. > :25:20.saying that's not the truth? Well, they're saying

:25:21. > :25:23.saying that's not the truth? Well, now. The question is, have they

:25:24. > :25:26.required it overall the years it has been given out? Notice again, it

:25:27. > :25:31.still doesn't say face-to-face. been given out? Notice again, it

:25:32. > :25:35.Whereas my understanding of the manufacturer's requirements is that

:25:36. > :25:39.it must be face-to-face in order that an assessment can be made of

:25:40. > :25:45.the individual and as to whether or not the individual for example might

:25:46. > :25:49.be reluctant to reveal that they have got the sort of symptoms that

:25:50. > :25:55.mean that they should not be prescribed it in the first place.

:25:56. > :25:57.The reality is that the MoD tries to say that there are certain parts of

:25:58. > :26:01.the world where only this drug say that there are certain parts of

:26:02. > :26:06.work and the alternatives won't work and we're demanding to hear from

:26:07. > :26:09.them something specific about where those areas are for example, but in

:26:10. > :26:15.any event, what we're saying is that, even if there is a tiny set of

:26:16. > :26:19.circumstances when this drug might have to be prescribed, it should be

:26:20. > :26:24.restrucked to exactly that. It should not be doled out en masse to

:26:25. > :26:28.large numbers of people being deployed suddenly because there is

:26:29. > :26:33.no possibility if you're doing that, that you can ever fulfil the

:26:34. > :26:36.guidelines and the safeguards that the manufacturers rightly flag Has

:26:37. > :26:41.the Ministry up. Of Defence failed in its duty of care to military

:26:42. > :26:46.personnel? Definitely. What does that say to you about the Ministry

:26:47. > :26:51.of Defence? Well, I won't extrapolate it beyond the

:26:52. > :26:56.circumstances of this particular scenario, but they appear to, what

:26:57. > :27:00.shall we say? Well, they know what they've done. They're stopping short

:27:01. > :27:05.of admitting it. They're not denying it. People can draw their own

:27:06. > :27:12.conclusions from that. What do you think should happen? Well, we've

:27:13. > :27:20.recommended that there should be a single point of contact within the

:27:21. > :27:25.chain of command for those people who are still serving and through

:27:26. > :27:29.GPs for those people who are no longer serving to whom anybody who

:27:30. > :27:35.has been badly affected by being prescribed this drug can have easy

:27:36. > :27:40.resource with a view to getting the support and the help that they may

:27:41. > :27:47.well need to get on with their lives. Is the support available at

:27:48. > :27:52.the moment? I don't think it is in the sense that a single system has

:27:53. > :27:57.been set-up to which anyone can refer. I cannot say for certain

:27:58. > :28:01.whether or not individual service personnel who have taken the

:28:02. > :28:04.initiative and approached the military authorities, won't have

:28:05. > :28:10.received any support. We didn't examine that point. What we do

:28:11. > :28:14.recommend is there must be a central, one stop shop system,

:28:15. > :28:21.whereby people who have suffered as a result of the inappropriate

:28:22. > :28:26.prescription of this seriously questionable medication to which

:28:27. > :28:30.they can have recourse for help and assistance. What about redress for

:28:31. > :28:35.those who say their lives have been changed by this? They have been

:28:36. > :28:40.unable to carry on doing what they were doing before as a result of it?

:28:41. > :28:52.Well, indeed. There do seem to be well attested cases. In the report

:28:53. > :28:55.we have major Duncan whose life has been severely damaged as a result of

:28:56. > :29:02.the medication that he received and of course, it will be up to them and

:29:03. > :29:06.the Ministry of Defence and if necessary, the courts, to decide

:29:07. > :29:09.whether compensation is appropriate and if so, how great that

:29:10. > :29:15.compensation should be. That's not really a matter for the Defence

:29:16. > :29:18.Select Committee to decide. I will speaking to his wife a little bit

:29:19. > :29:23.later on the programme. Are you disappointed, you talk about the

:29:24. > :29:29.fact that the Ministry of Defence has been effectively slow to

:29:30. > :29:33.respond? This is something that's been around for a long time. I was

:29:34. > :29:40.speaking to somebody earlier who talked about in the military the

:29:41. > :29:50.phrase, "I'm having a Lariam moment" Is used by very senior personnel in

:29:51. > :29:55.some cases? Yes, of course there are all sorts of By-products, there is a

:29:56. > :30:03.distinct possibility that people will quietly chuck it away and thus

:30:04. > :30:06.go into malarial infested regions completely unprotected against

:30:07. > :30:09.malaria and that's the worst of all possible outcomes if they end up

:30:10. > :30:13.getting malaria as a result of that. Now, the military and the Ministry

:30:14. > :30:17.of Defence will say it is sab lightly vital that people must have

:30:18. > :30:23.antimalarial drugs and we agree with that. The question is, whether

:30:24. > :30:27.enough has been done to make it clear to people that there are

:30:28. > :30:30.alternatives, even if there are alternatives that are not as

:30:31. > :30:34.convenient to take as this one, where you only have to take one

:30:35. > :30:40.tablet a week for example, but given the risks of such severe

:30:41. > :30:46.side-effects in a minority of cases, and less severe, but still troubling

:30:47. > :30:50.side-effects in larger number of cases, and given the stringent

:30:51. > :30:54.precautions laid out by the manufacturers, which are not

:30:55. > :31:00.themselves suitable, if you're deploying large numbers of troops at

:31:01. > :31:06.short notice into a malaria infected area, then it is as plain as a

:31:07. > :31:07.pikestaff that this is an unsuitable medication to give to the Armed

:31:08. > :31:17.Forces. I want to bring in the professor, he

:31:18. > :31:20.is a malaria expert. Julian Lewis just said that the MoD says there

:31:21. > :31:26.are parts of the world where only Larry is suitable. Do you agree? It

:31:27. > :31:38.does not chime with what I understand. Malarone, which is a

:31:39. > :31:43.trade name, does not have any evidence of resistance anywhere in

:31:44. > :31:45.the world, as I understand it. That is a very well-tolerated drug

:31:46. > :31:52.combination that can be used effectively, I think, to prevent

:31:53. > :31:55.malaria. So as far as you are concerned, there are no

:31:56. > :32:00.circumstances where Larry would be the only option? No. It is more

:32:01. > :32:07.convenient, it is they once a week medicine, rather than daily. Yes. I

:32:08. > :32:11.think, on balance, the price that is extracted for that convenience, as

:32:12. > :32:18.has been so carefully investigated by the defence committee, is not

:32:19. > :32:22.worth paying. Is at a cheaper drugs? It is cheaper, on the whole. It

:32:23. > :32:29.depends for how long one wants to provide cover. The longer you go,

:32:30. > :32:37.the more expensive the combination in relation -- the combination in

:32:38. > :32:44.Malarone becomes in relation to Lariam. Julian, should somebody take

:32:45. > :32:49.responsibility for what you are saying about the Ministry of Defence

:32:50. > :32:54.handling? It is obviously serious. Should somebody take responsibility?

:32:55. > :32:57.Where does this go? At the end of it all, investors had to take ultimate

:32:58. > :33:02.responsibility, and the minister concerned who came to the committee

:33:03. > :33:08.was very forthright and frank about this, we really appreciated that. We

:33:09. > :33:13.thought his attitude was very positive. We welcome back. Remember,

:33:14. > :33:18.this has been going on for a very long time. There may be all sorts of

:33:19. > :33:22.reasons other than sheer pig-headedness that there has been a

:33:23. > :33:25.reluctance to change practice. What appears to be the case, from the

:33:26. > :33:33.latest state and is coming out of the MoD, is that they are now

:33:34. > :33:35.prescribing it on a much more restricted aces which, perhaps

:33:36. > :33:38.prescribing it on a much more they had prescribed it on such a

:33:39. > :33:43.restrict the bases all along, it would not have led to anything like

:33:44. > :33:48.the same above problems. -- perhaps if they have prescribed it on such a

:33:49. > :33:52.restricted aces all along. I was interested in hearing that there

:33:53. > :33:56.were no areas where Larry would not work. That is what we suspected,

:33:57. > :34:00.although we are not qualified to pronounce on that. One of our

:34:01. > :34:04.demands in our conclusion is that we reach is that if the MoD are going

:34:05. > :34:08.to rely on that sort of argument, they need to specify where these

:34:09. > :34:13.areas are that only Lariam will suffice to

:34:14. > :34:18.areas are that only Lariam will personnel. Thank you both very much.

:34:19. > :34:19.areas are that only Lariam will We will be talking much more about

:34:20. > :34:22.that a little bit later. Still to come: Dog lovers know

:34:23. > :34:24.to avoid puppy farms, but it's not always easy to be sure

:34:25. > :34:27.if a breeder is responsible. So what more can be done to crack

:34:28. > :34:30.down on illegal establishments and protect both dogs

:34:31. > :34:32.and customers? And as another climber dies

:34:33. > :34:34.on Everest, has the mountain become Annita is in the BBC

:34:35. > :34:54.Newsroom with the rest Good morning. Campaigners have

:34:55. > :34:56.promised to keep on fighting after a council in North Yorkshire approved

:34:57. > :34:57.fracking for shale gas. Fracking for shale gas is to take

:34:58. > :35:01.place in England for the first time since a ban on the practice

:35:02. > :35:03.was lifted four years ago. But North Yorkshire County Council

:35:04. > :35:06.has now approved an application by the company Third Energy to use

:35:07. > :35:09.fracking at a site near the village A group of MPs says the Ministry

:35:10. > :35:13.of Defence is failing to follow guidelines when prescribing

:35:14. > :35:15.a controversial anti-malarial Mefloquine - also known by its brand

:35:16. > :35:19.name Lariam - has been linked to depression,

:35:20. > :35:23.panic attacks and hallucinations. The Ministry of Defence

:35:24. > :35:25.says the vast majority But the MP who led the review took

:35:26. > :35:37.are given alternative drugs. But the MP who led the review took

:35:38. > :35:38.this programme that he is very concerned about the way it has been

:35:39. > :35:43.prescribed. The Government has said there should

:35:44. > :35:44.be an independent inquiry into historic practices relating

:35:45. > :35:47.to infant cremations in Hull. The agreement comes

:35:48. > :35:49.after a long campaign led by Tina and Mike Trowhill

:35:50. > :35:53.after they discovered their son's More than 50 local families

:35:54. > :35:56.have also been affected. Police in Greece have begun moving

:35:57. > :35:58.thousands of stranded migrants from the makeshift Idomeni camp

:35:59. > :36:04.on the Macedonia border. have been living in the temporary

:36:05. > :36:07.camp since the border crossing and the route to northern Europe

:36:08. > :36:10.was closed in March. The operation began

:36:11. > :36:13.at dawn and is expected There are hundreds of riot police

:36:14. > :36:16.on site but officials say An EgyptAir flight that crashed

:36:17. > :36:23.in the Mediterranean did not swerve and change direction before

:36:24. > :36:26.disappearing, according The Airbus A320 was en route

:36:27. > :36:31.from Paris to Cairo with 66 people on board when it vanished

:36:32. > :36:36.from radar early on Thursday. Despite previous suggestions,

:36:37. > :36:38.the head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services

:36:39. > :36:48.says there was no unusual movement. David Cameron is expected to say

:36:49. > :36:51.today that family holidays could be around ?200 more expensive if the UK

:36:52. > :36:53.leaves the EU. The Prime Minister is continuing

:36:54. > :36:56.on the referendum campaign trail this morning, after yesterday's

:36:57. > :36:58.warning of a Brexit Mr Cameron will say holiday price

:36:59. > :37:06.rises will be caused by a drop The Ukip leader Nigel Farage is also

:37:07. > :37:09.campaigning this morning That's a summary of the latest BBC

:37:10. > :37:22.News - more at 10am. We will be out and about with both

:37:23. > :37:28.camps in a few moments, but first let's catch up with the sport.

:37:29. > :37:29.Good morning. We are waiting for white smoke at Old Trafford.

:37:30. > :37:32.Despite being unaware of plans to relieve him of his job,

:37:33. > :37:34.sacked Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal appears to have

:37:35. > :37:36.departed Old Trafford with some class.

:37:37. > :37:38.In a statement, he described United as magnificent club,

:37:39. > :37:44.Those fans are now waiting patiently.

:37:45. > :37:46.United are expected to resume talks with Jose Mourinho

:37:47. > :37:49.Mourinho - seen here in London yesterday -

:37:50. > :37:52.has been out of work since leaving Chelsea last December.

:37:53. > :37:54.Mourinho is expected to offer current number two Ryan Giggs

:37:55. > :37:56.a coaching role but not the job of assistant manager.

:37:57. > :37:59.World number two Andy Murray faces a fight to reach

:38:00. > :38:03.Bad light stopped his match with 37-year-old Radek Stepanek

:38:04. > :38:05.with Murray trailing two sets to one.

:38:06. > :38:09.And Northern Ireland's Rory McIlroy has admitted he may turn down

:38:10. > :38:12.the chance of playing at the Rio Olympics over concerns

:38:13. > :38:14.over the Zika Virus as his thoughts turn towards starting a family

:38:15. > :38:26.We will be back looking at Manchester United just after 10am,

:38:27. > :38:27.you then. David Cameron is back

:38:28. > :38:29.on the campaign trail We can cross over to our

:38:30. > :38:46.political guru Norman Smith, Yesterday we had that dossier of

:38:47. > :38:50.doom, the economic storm clouds if we left the EU talk about what the

:38:51. > :38:56.deficit would be, talk of ?39 billion more, how inflation would go

:38:57. > :39:02.up by 2.7%. We have been plunged into recession, the economy growing

:39:03. > :39:06.about 3.6% less. Those are all big numbers, big economic arguments.

:39:07. > :39:10.Today Mr Cameron wants to bring it down to everyday costs. What he will

:39:11. > :39:16.be talking about at this airport is the cost of flying, the cost of

:39:17. > :39:21.summer holidays. He calculates, or, more honestly, his civil servants

:39:22. > :39:26.calculate, that if we leave the EU, outlines will not be able to take

:39:27. > :39:30.advantage of what is called the Aviation Single Market, which

:39:31. > :39:34.provides common rules and regulations on flight routes and

:39:35. > :39:38.landing, so the cost of flying will go up. But also because the pound

:39:39. > :39:42.may well depreciate with the immediate shock of leaving the EU,

:39:43. > :39:48.we will lose out in terms of the cost of paying for hotels, food,

:39:49. > :39:52.petrol etc. He has come up with these numbers and suggests that for

:39:53. > :39:57.a family of four going on holiday for about eight nights also in

:39:58. > :40:02.Europe, that would go up, he says, by ?230, that is the increase. If

:40:03. > :40:09.you were to go for ten nights, he says would go up I320 ?5. If you

:40:10. > :40:12.were to go to the States, never mind the issues around Europe, because of

:40:13. > :40:17.the depreciation in the pound, apparently that would cost around

:40:18. > :40:23.?640 more. What does this tell us? I think it tells us that there is a

:40:24. > :40:27.feeling in Team Cameron that they need to make this referendum about

:40:28. > :40:32.real people's lives. You can't just do the big arguments about the big

:40:33. > :40:36.economics or big security issues, you have too grounded in people's

:40:37. > :40:39.everyday experiences. That is what he is trying to do with the argument

:40:40. > :40:44.about the cost of flights and holidays. Those figures you are

:40:45. > :40:50.quoting, are they disputed by the other side? Each one disputes what

:40:51. > :40:56.the others are saying, but can we rely on these? There were as one

:40:57. > :41:00.rule around this referendum. Everything is disputed, every fact

:41:01. > :41:05.is argued and these facts are argued over -- there is one rule about this

:41:06. > :41:09.referendum. Since we entered Europe, as lights have consistently come

:41:10. > :41:14.down, they have come down by around 40%. The argument is that this is

:41:15. > :41:18.not about the single market, it is about competition, with the Internet

:41:19. > :41:22.and consumers becoming more savvy. Ryanair are saying they will cut the

:41:23. > :41:26.cost of air flights by 7% this summer. Nothing to do with Europe,

:41:27. > :41:32.it is because of falling petrol prices and oil prices. A lot of the

:41:33. > :41:38.arguments depend on how you view them. Team Cameron say it is because

:41:39. > :41:41.we are in Europe, Team Boris and Team Leave say it is because of the

:41:42. > :41:44.cost of petrol and competition. Coming up: As British holiday makers

:41:45. > :41:47.continue to turn their backs on Tunisia after last year's terror

:41:48. > :41:57.shootings, is it time to rethink We are getting a big response from

:41:58. > :41:58.you on that, we will read some of your thoughts are little bit later.

:41:59. > :42:01.A production facility run on an industrial scale to produce

:42:02. > :42:04.No, that's not some kind of manufacturing unit -

:42:05. > :42:06.that's how the horrific conditions of puppy farming

:42:07. > :42:11.It seems our famous love of dogs is having unintended

:42:12. > :42:16.Recent footage shows cages in Ireland filled with hundreds

:42:17. > :42:18.of dogs, many of them sickly, very many of them destined

:42:19. > :42:25.Now campaigners say the trade has gone on long enough and they want

:42:26. > :42:29.Celebrities, MPs and charities will gather for a rally today

:42:30. > :42:32.outside the Houses of Parliament - calling for the government to ban

:42:33. > :42:37.the sale of puppies in pet shops and by dealers.

:42:38. > :42:40.As the law stands, as long as someone owns a council pet shop

:42:41. > :42:44.licence they're free to source dogs from elsewhere.

:42:45. > :42:47.So is it our problem - us, the owners who supposedly adore

:42:48. > :42:51.And are we just fuelling the industry?

:42:52. > :42:54.In a moment we'll talk about the issue, but first take

:42:55. > :45:22.a look at this investigation from BBC Panorama.

:45:23. > :45:22.after buying a dog which had lots of health problems.

:45:23. > :45:22.Wendy Jackson's story is very similar.

:45:23. > :45:49.Aran Mathai campaigns against puppy farms,

:45:50. > :45:49.Aran Mathai campaigns it? What we

:45:50. > :45:49.Aran Mathai campaigns actually of pet shops that are in

:45:50. > :45:56.Ireland and we Ireland, but they are clearly

:45:57. > :46:02.shocking conditions that those puppies are being

:46:03. > :46:02.shocking conditions that those sort of stories that you hear and

:46:03. > :46:11.the things sort of stories that you hear and

:46:12. > :46:18.day. You know, our inspectors daily are dealing with issues of

:46:19. > :46:25.day. You know, our inspectors daily in shocking conditions, but the

:46:26. > :46:46.puppies that are actually bought in the UK at the moment in

:46:47. > :46:52.puppies that are actually bought in establishments. Is it clear what the

:46:53. > :46:56.legislation is? It is very complex in terms of trying to identify

:46:57. > :46:59.people that are trading. That's why the RSPCA are calling for people,

:47:00. > :47:04.whether they are selling one litter or one puppy, to be licensed or

:47:05. > :47:07.registered in the very first instance so there is some way of

:47:08. > :47:13.tracking that through. Does nobody have to be licensed or registered?

:47:14. > :47:18.At the moment the regulations that are in place require that you're

:47:19. > :47:23.licensed if you have over a certain number of litters of puppies in a 12

:47:24. > :47:27.month period. The trouble comes when local authorities try to enforce

:47:28. > :47:31.that legislation because people are passing them as your Panorama

:47:32. > :47:35.programme demonstrated, are passing themselves off as, you know, just

:47:36. > :47:43.one time breeders of the pup Let's talk to lis. Alison. Alison you

:47:44. > :47:45.brought your dog Trixie five years ago and discovered problems quickly,

:47:46. > :47:50.what were the problems you discovered? The problems I

:47:51. > :47:56.discovered, she became very unwell quite quickly. I mean when we went

:47:57. > :48:02.to see her, she wasn't acting like a normal puppy would. But the excuse

:48:03. > :48:09.we were given is that she had been asleep and we took his word for it,

:48:10. > :48:15.but when we went home with the dog, within 24, 48 hours, she became very

:48:16. > :48:21.unwell. Had alarm bells rung when you bought her? They did because we

:48:22. > :48:26.asked a couple of times if we could see the parents, but we were always

:48:27. > :48:32.excused. We were basically, we were forced out the door. He wouldn't

:48:33. > :48:36.answer any of our questions. But you went ahead and bought a dog from

:48:37. > :48:42.him? We went ahead. Yeah, we did go ahead and buy the dog from him. Dud

:48:43. > :48:54.I do Ied that? How much did you pay? I paid ?650 for the dog. It wasn't

:48:55. > :49:01.the breed you thought it was? No, it was a mixed breed which we didn't

:49:02. > :49:07.know. Wendy Jackson you wanted a cross. You found one. Tell us what

:49:08. > :49:24.your experience was? I went to the kennels. I thought it was a real rep

:49:25. > :49:29.rable dealer. I paid ?495 for him. I got him home and within 24 hours,

:49:30. > :49:34.well not even 24 hours, I realised there was something wrong. I got

:49:35. > :49:38.appointment at the vets. When I took the dog the following day, they told

:49:39. > :49:45.us that he were actually completely blind. That he had clusters behind

:49:46. > :49:48.his eyes. They took his blood. No cancer showed up, but I feel as

:49:49. > :49:54.though I'm living worthwhile a timebomb. I have got to watch him

:49:55. > :49:58.for violently shaking his head in case he has severe headaches and

:49:59. > :50:04.watch him for taking fits. It is just, I feel as if I was conned from

:50:05. > :50:10.walking into the premises to walking out. Everything was all rushed. It

:50:11. > :50:14.is just disgusting what they're doing with these animals. I think

:50:15. > :50:19.there needs to be some sort of legislation. Some sort of law to

:50:20. > :50:23.stop this happening. Aaron, you're one of the organisers of the rally

:50:24. > :50:27.today. Yes. Why are you marching about this? Essentially all the

:50:28. > :50:34.Government advice, all the advice from the large animal welfare

:50:35. > :50:37.charities, all the advice from all reputable animal organisations is

:50:38. > :50:45.you should not buy a puppy unless you can see it with its mother.

:50:46. > :50:50.That's not possible with third party dealer, whether that's pet shops or

:50:51. > :50:55.online sales. The onus is on the Government to say the third party

:50:56. > :50:59.sales are not acceptable because that is what facilitates puppy

:51:00. > :51:04.farming. What about the onus being on the people buying them? Well,

:51:05. > :51:11.that's certainly true as well, but if a potential purchaser can see the

:51:12. > :51:16.puppy interacting with the mother then they can make a more informed

:51:17. > :51:20.choice about whether that's a breeder they want to personally

:51:21. > :51:24.support. That way, the large puppy farms, they will never be able to

:51:25. > :51:30.sell their product in the way that they treat it as a product. If you

:51:31. > :51:35.type "Puppy" Into a search on the internet, the second item that comes

:51:36. > :51:39.up is RSPCA guidelines on what you should look for when you are buying

:51:40. > :51:42.a puppy and what you should avoid. There is loads of advice out there.

:51:43. > :51:48.Shouldn't individuals be taking responsibility. Isn't the first step

:51:49. > :51:51.of responsible pet ownership be taking responsibility when you're

:51:52. > :51:55.buying it? It doesn't make sense that it is legal to sell a puppy

:51:56. > :51:59.when the mother is not present. When the Government itself on its website

:52:00. > :52:02.says you should never buy a puppy unless the mother is present and you

:52:03. > :52:05.can see the puppy interact with the mother. So it is totally

:52:06. > :52:10.hypocritical for the Government to say this is something that the

:52:11. > :52:14.public have to take on board. But we're not going to enforce this.

:52:15. > :52:19.What do you think? Is it hypocritical? I think it is very

:52:20. > :52:24.difficult. As there are some really sad stories out there of people who

:52:25. > :52:29.purchased puppies in this way and you know, recent research shows that

:52:30. > :52:33.a large percentage, over 50% of people aren't doing the research

:52:34. > :52:38.before they are buying the puppies, you know, another large percentage

:52:39. > :52:42.of them will just buy on one viewing of a litter. Does the buck stop with

:52:43. > :52:46.the people buying it? It is very difficult. We would like people to

:52:47. > :52:50.be better informed. There is more information on our website. We would

:52:51. > :52:55.like people to use the dog contract that we have on the website. But I

:52:56. > :52:59.think the whole issue of banning the third party sales is very difficult.

:53:00. > :53:04.It is a very simple way to deal with what is a complex problem. Alison,

:53:05. > :53:09.were you aware of what you should be looking out for? How much did you

:53:10. > :53:16.look into buying a puppy before you went off and bought one? I did do

:53:17. > :53:22.some research and I did know that, you know, to see the parents and the

:53:23. > :53:28.puppy with the parents was the main factor, but I kept asking, but

:53:29. > :53:36.againks I kept getting fobbed off and I was rushed out the door. I did

:53:37. > :53:42.ask many times to see the parents. The same question to you, Wendy?

:53:43. > :53:50.Well, I thought I had seen the parents, but actually it turned out

:53:51. > :53:54.that they weren't the parents of Micka. These people, they are

:53:55. > :54:00.intelligent people. They are not stupid people. They know they are

:54:01. > :54:05.conning people. You know, it's hard going to these breeders and you

:54:06. > :54:11.think that you're getting a puppy, you know, from a decent breed, but

:54:12. > :54:17.the lies that they tell you. The way they rush you out the door. It is

:54:18. > :54:21.disgusting. Thank you all very much for joining

:54:22. > :54:33.us. Let us know your thoughts on it as well.

:54:34. > :54:36.Efforts are still on to locate two Indian climbers who went

:54:37. > :54:39.Three climbers, an Australian, a Dutch and an Indian national,

:54:40. > :54:42.have lost their lives on Everest in as many days and 30

:54:43. > :54:47.Over 600 climbers have attempted to scale the world's highest

:54:48. > :54:49.peak recently with over 350 of them successful.

:54:50. > :54:51.But there's suggestions the route should be closed

:54:52. > :55:01.This last happened in 2014 over safety fears.

:55:02. > :55:03.Joining us is one man who knows the area.

:55:04. > :55:05.Graham Hoyland is an author and mountaineer.

:55:06. > :55:12.Thank you very much for joining us. the summit, and has visited

:55:13. > :55:17.Thank you very much for joining us. There have now been three fatalities

:55:18. > :55:21.in three days. As I said, you know Everest. You've been there many

:55:22. > :55:28.times. How dangerous is it to climb? Well, it is very dangerous for the

:55:29. > :55:32.sherpas. Over 100 Sherpas have been killed helping people like me climb

:55:33. > :55:36.to the summit of the mountain and I think, if this was happening in our

:55:37. > :55:41.country, the place would be closed down. Are the dangers predictable?

:55:42. > :55:49.No, they're not predictable. You climb up through a thing called the

:55:50. > :55:53.ice fall which is a giant tumbling ice cubes. They are the size of

:55:54. > :55:57.tower blocks and they can suddenly slip and crush you to death and this

:55:58. > :56:03.happened in 2014, I think 16 Sherpas were killed. And what I'm suggesting

:56:04. > :56:08.is that we use helicopters to carry the provisions up the mountains to

:56:09. > :56:13.the first camp and stop the Nepalies having to climb through the ice 30

:56:14. > :56:17.or 40 times. We, western climbers, only go two or three times. Should

:56:18. > :56:22.Everest be closed to climbing full stop? No, I don't think. It would be

:56:23. > :56:26.unfair to Nepal. It is a big earner of foreign exchange. I think the

:56:27. > :56:30.sensible thing to do is what the Americans do with their highest

:56:31. > :56:33.mountain which is to vet the climbers, the western climbers, make

:56:34. > :56:38.sure they're good enough. Keep standards high. Use helicopters. And

:56:39. > :56:41.avoid the dangerous bits. Because at the moment anyone can go up if they

:56:42. > :56:46.have got the money to do it, is that right? That's right. As with most

:56:47. > :56:53.things, money is calling the shots here. People are paying maybe up to

:56:54. > :56:59.$90,000 to climb the mountain. For those sums of money, people will let

:57:00. > :57:04.them complete amateurs go up. People who can't even tie their shoelaces,

:57:05. > :57:11.can't walk straight. I would suggest that people have to be properly

:57:12. > :57:14.trained and vetted and then certainly let the commercial

:57:15. > :57:19.expedition companies collect the fees, but keep it all safe.

:57:20. > :57:23.What would you say to people about climbing it? You are an experienced

:57:24. > :57:28.climber, but you have almost been killed there twice yourself? Well,

:57:29. > :57:32.you've got to remember, climbing Everest is fantastic fun. It is a

:57:33. > :57:37.beautiful mountain. Nepal is a lovely country with lovely people.

:57:38. > :57:42.The view from the summit very memorable. You can see over 100

:57:43. > :57:48.miles to the next mountain, and you will remember it all your life. But

:57:49. > :57:51.the problem is that the decent is very, very dangerous. You have to

:57:52. > :57:54.keep thinking all the way down, "This is where most people get

:57:55. > :57:59.killed." Thank you, Graham.

:58:00. > :58:02.Let's get the latest weather update with Carol.

:58:03. > :58:09.How are you? Well, it is looking lovely outside for many parts of the

:58:10. > :58:13.UK. Not everywhere. We have seen a bit of cloud in some parts, but for

:58:14. > :58:16.many the forecast will be a warm one and one of sunny spells. Now, on the

:58:17. > :58:20.satellite picture, you can see where we've got the sunshine and there is

:58:21. > :58:23.a lot of it around. We have had fog this morning across Northern

:58:24. > :58:31.Ireland, across Yorkshire as well, but that's lifted and now we've got

:58:32. > :58:35.the cloud, the thicker cloud. As we go through the day, that will break

:58:36. > :58:38.up allowing sunshine to develop. With the wind, anywhere down the

:58:39. > :58:41.East Coast of Scotland or the East Coast of England is prone to cloud

:58:42. > :58:45.coming in from the North Sea. Further west, we are back into the

:58:46. > :58:47.sunny skies. Through the day, there will be fair-weather cloud

:58:48. > :58:51.developing and in the south-west and Wales, there is just an outside

:58:52. > :58:55.chance you could see a shower, but consider yourself unlucky if you do.

:58:56. > :58:59.It is the same for Northern Ireland. Very small ricks of a shower. For

:59:00. > :59:03.most, it will be dry and sunny. And after that cloudy start across the

:59:04. > :59:06.north and the north-east of Scotland, the cloud breaking up

:59:07. > :59:11.nicely. You can see in areas close to the North Sea, we are looking at

:59:12. > :59:16.more cloud at times, but there will be sunny spells. Across north-west

:59:17. > :59:21.England and Cheshire, sunshine, but down the East Coast, we will see the

:59:22. > :59:25.cloud lapping on shore. It will be cooler in the east. Towards the Isle

:59:26. > :59:29.of Wight and the Channel Islands, dry with sunny spellsment through

:59:30. > :59:33.the evening and overnight, the cloud does come further inland. Some of us

:59:34. > :59:37.will see it in western areas and it will be thick enough to produce

:59:38. > :59:40.patchy rain across East Anglia. We have a weather front coming in from

:59:41. > :59:46.the near Continent. Here is the rain associated with it. And that's going

:59:47. > :59:48.to push in to some eastern parts of England and the South East of

:59:49. > :59:52.Scotland during the course of Wednesday. So we start off with some

:59:53. > :59:56.patchy rain in East Anglia and then the main band of rain comes in. And

:59:57. > :59:59.you can see the cloud spreading ahead of it getting into Cumbria and

:00:00. > :00:03.possibly into parts of Northern Ireland through the afternoon. In

:00:04. > :00:05.the north, there will be some bright spells or sunshine. In the south,

:00:06. > :00:09.there will be more cloud around than today. The other thing about

:00:10. > :00:15.tomorrow is, it will feel noticeably cooler than it is today. In fact if

:00:16. > :00:17.you're heading off to the Chelsea Flower Show, you will notice that

:00:18. > :00:20.tomorrow. But look at the difference on Thursday. On Thursday, though, we

:00:21. > :00:24.should see a return to sunny spells and the temperature picking up. In

:00:25. > :00:27.fact, it is not just in the south, for most of us as we head towards

:00:28. > :00:31.the end of the week, it will warm upment it will be drier in the

:00:32. > :00:37.north. In the south, we will be prone to showers. We're importing

:00:38. > :00:38.those from the near kevent Continent and some could be heavy and

:00:39. > :01:01.thundery. I'm Joanna Gosling in for

:01:02. > :01:05.Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme if you've

:01:06. > :01:13.just joined us. Our British troops being put at risk

:01:14. > :01:17.by being prescribed the controversial antimalarial drug

:01:18. > :01:22.Lariam without proper health checks? The Ministry of Defence and the

:01:23. > :01:26.veterans agency have been quite resolute in their determination not

:01:27. > :01:30.to address the issue, and that is very sad. It is an awful insight

:01:31. > :01:34.into the way that we do things and the way that we are supposed to care

:01:35. > :01:35.about people who have been damaged, making sure that people are

:01:36. > :01:37.protected. Also ahead: A restaurant owner

:01:38. > :01:40.who put "profit before safety" is starting a six year jail sentence

:01:41. > :01:42.for the manslaughter of a customer who had an allergic

:01:43. > :01:47.reaction to a curry. How can other sufferers ensure that

:01:48. > :01:50.food is safe to eat? Also, would you go

:01:51. > :01:53.to Tunisia in the wake After a 90% drop in British holiday

:01:54. > :01:57.makers bookings to the country, officials say the UK needs

:01:58. > :02:02.to relax its travel warnings. I think there's a big gap

:02:03. > :02:04.between the perception here of the level of security

:02:05. > :02:09.and the real security on the ground, When they read the travel advice,

:02:10. > :02:17.they may think, "No, There has been a big response from

:02:18. > :02:26.you. One anonymous text - yes,

:02:27. > :02:28.we have changed our holiday plans. I want to avoid taking my family

:02:29. > :02:31.to any area where terror attacks have occurred

:02:32. > :02:33.or places being affected Matt on Facebook, one of my brothers

:02:34. > :02:41.always goes to Tunisia. Cheap as chips and deserted and with

:02:42. > :02:44.only a few foreigners about - Here's Annita McVeigh

:02:45. > :02:54.in the BBC Newsroom Campaigners have promised to keep

:02:55. > :03:01.on fighting after a council in North Yorkshire approved fracking

:03:02. > :03:03.for shale gas. It means that fracking will take

:03:04. > :03:06.place in England for the first time since a ban on the practice

:03:07. > :03:10.was lifted four years ago. North Yorkshire County Council has

:03:11. > :03:12.given permission to the company Third Energy to extract shale gas

:03:13. > :03:15.at a site near the village A group of MPs says the Ministry

:03:16. > :03:21.of Defence is failing to follow guidelines when prescribing

:03:22. > :03:23.a controversial anti-malarial Mefloquine - also known by its brand

:03:24. > :03:29.name Lariam - has been linked to depression,

:03:30. > :03:33.panic attacks and hallucinations. The Ministry of Defence

:03:34. > :03:35.says the vast majority of deployed personnel

:03:36. > :03:37.are given alternative drugs. But the MP who led the review told

:03:38. > :03:52.this programme that he is very The reason that makes this case

:03:53. > :03:57.unusual is that the drug's owned manufacturers laid down very

:03:58. > :04:03.stringent rules that they said must be follows if it is to be prescribed

:04:04. > :04:04.safely, and it is pretty clear that those rules requiring face to face

:04:05. > :04:10.individual risk assessment were those rules requiring face to face

:04:11. > :04:15.applied. Those procedures were not followed. Therefore the opportunity

:04:16. > :04:16.to screen out people who would be most likely to have these sorts of

:04:17. > :04:18.side-effects was lost. And Joanna will be speaking

:04:19. > :04:21.to people whose lives have been affected by the use of Lariam

:04:22. > :04:23.in a few moments. The Government has said there should

:04:24. > :04:25.be an independent inquiry into historic practices relating

:04:26. > :04:29.to infant cremations in Hull. The agreement comes

:04:30. > :04:31.after a long campaign led by Tina and Mike Trowhill

:04:32. > :04:34.after they discovered their sons ashes had been scattered

:04:35. > :04:35.without their knowledge. More than 50 local families

:04:36. > :04:41.have also been affected. Police in Greece have begun moving

:04:42. > :04:43.thousands of stranded migrants from the makeshift Idomeni camp

:04:44. > :04:47.on the Macedonia border. More than 8,000 people,

:04:48. > :04:49.many of them women and children, have been living in the temporary

:04:50. > :04:52.camp since the border crossing and the route to northern Europe

:04:53. > :04:57.was closed in March. The operation began

:04:58. > :04:58.at dawn and is expected There are hundreds of riot police

:04:59. > :05:03.on site but officials say An EgyptAir flight that crashed

:05:04. > :05:09.in the Mediterranean did not swerve and change direction before

:05:10. > :05:23.disappearing, according The head of Egypt's state-run

:05:24. > :05:26.provider of air navigation services says the flight made no unusual

:05:27. > :05:30.movement, but should acting state that from the Greek error industry.

:05:31. > :05:32.-- Out industry. The Airbus A320 was en route

:05:33. > :05:35.from Paris to Cairo with 66 people on board when it vanished

:05:36. > :05:38.from radar early on Thursday. David Cameron is expected to say

:05:39. > :05:40.today that family holidays could be around ?200 more expensive if the UK

:05:41. > :05:43.leaves the EU. The Prime Minister is continuing

:05:44. > :05:45.on the referendum campaign trail this morning, after yesterday's

:05:46. > :05:47.warning of a Brexit Mr Cameron will say holiday price

:05:48. > :05:59.rises will be caused by a drop It could push up the cost of

:06:00. > :06:00.accommodation, food and drink abroad, he will say.

:06:01. > :06:03.The Ukip leader Nigel Farage is also campaigning this

:06:04. > :06:15.That is the latest BBC News, more from me at 10:30am. Lots of you

:06:16. > :06:20.getting on touch on the story that Tunisia officials are urging the UK

:06:21. > :06:24.Government to relax its advice warning against all but essential

:06:25. > :06:29.travel. There has been a 90% drop in the right of British visitors in the

:06:30. > :06:32.first part of 2016. The guidance has been a place in 31 British

:06:33. > :06:39.holiday-makers were killed in two terror attacks in Tunisia in 2015.

:06:40. > :06:42.Jessica says, I would defiantly go to Tunisia. I think the sanctions

:06:43. > :06:47.not apply there have been that have been long. Currently I live in Egypt

:06:48. > :06:50.I can see what it does to everyday life with the collapse of the

:06:51. > :06:54.tourism industry. At the end of the day, people should have the freedom

:06:55. > :06:59.to travel there or not. You do not see sanctions on Paris or Belgium

:07:00. > :07:05.like you do to Tunisia and now Sharm el-Sheikh.

:07:06. > :07:10.Jeff has e-mailed saying I had just spent three weeks on holiday in

:07:11. > :07:13.Sousse. I felt safe and secure with all the security the Tunisia

:07:14. > :07:17.authorities have put in place, plainclothes policeman, mounted

:07:18. > :07:21.police guarding beaches, many more besides, to protect the two arrests.

:07:22. > :07:25.Terrorism can happen anywhere in the world, it was just unfortunate that

:07:26. > :07:29.it happened to this lovely country and its warm, friendly people.

:07:30. > :07:34.Roy says there are much safer places to visit, why take the risk? Thank

:07:35. > :07:42.you for those comments, do keep getting on throughout the morning

:07:43. > :07:44.and do remember the hashtag victorialive. If you text, you will

:07:45. > :07:47.be charged at the standard rate. So changes are on the way

:07:48. > :07:55.at Manchester United, with Louis Van Gaal sacked yesterday

:07:56. > :07:57.and Jose Mourinho expected to be named new boss

:07:58. > :07:59.within the next 24 hours. Jonathan Wilson, football writer

:08:00. > :08:07.at the Guardian, joins me now. He is also an author. I have seen

:08:08. > :08:12.Jose Mourinho described as a 2000s manager replacing a 1990 as manager

:08:13. > :08:17.in Van Gaal, can he was story attacking football that United want

:08:18. > :08:23.to see? He is often described as defensive, I think he is pragmatic.

:08:24. > :08:28.Van Gaal had a very possession driven approach, not many risks,

:08:29. > :08:33.hold the ball, sideways passes. The crowd did not appreciated. Marina

:08:34. > :08:39.and, but in his second spell at Chelsea and Real Madrid have in

:08:40. > :08:42.doubt that his ideas were rooted in the early 2000s and he is not as

:08:43. > :08:47.progressive as somebody like Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool. UNITA dabbing

:08:48. > :08:51.criticised since sacking Van Gaal, particularly for the handling of

:08:52. > :08:56.things and Ferguson left. Are we seeing the end of footballing

:08:57. > :08:59.dynasty is like Ferguson and Arsene Wenger at Arsenal? Good people are

:09:00. > :09:06.less patient than they were. UNITA only won the league under three

:09:07. > :09:09.managers ever, the 190 years ago, then Busby, then Ferguson. The

:09:10. > :09:13.manager who stays long time and bring success over a prolonged

:09:14. > :09:19.period, there are not so many along these days. Mourinho looks like a

:09:20. > :09:24.three-year manager, that is what has happened at every club. He arrives,

:09:25. > :09:29.builds, has always won the league in a second season at a major club, in

:09:30. > :09:31.the third season, it starts to go sour.

:09:32. > :09:35.Ryan Giggs, assistant manager, he could be leaving? It has been

:09:36. > :09:40.rumoured he has been offered a position on Mourinho 's coaching

:09:41. > :09:44.staff. I guess the dream is that he would turn into United 's Pep

:09:45. > :09:49.Guardiola, comes through the club, is identified with the club,

:09:50. > :09:54.achieves great things. It is hard to know if he will be a good manager.

:09:55. > :09:59.He has been in the two for two failing managers, if he is number

:10:00. > :10:04.two for Mourinho, as he ever get the chance? He is not proving himself as

:10:05. > :10:09.a front man. I think maybe a break is necessary to him. You have

:10:10. > :10:12.written so often about tactics, so many great managers coming into the

:10:13. > :10:16.Premier League next season, whose style will prevail? This is the most

:10:17. > :10:21.exciting pre-season we have ever had. Guardiola and Mourinho in

:10:22. > :10:26.Manchester, Jurgen Klopp doing exciting things in Liverpool, Arsene

:10:27. > :10:30.Wenger still desperately trying to cling on at Arsenal, we have Antonio

:10:31. > :10:34.Conte at Chelsea, who will Pochettino bring into Tottenham? A

:10:35. > :10:39.fascinating season. I think it is the most excited I have been before

:10:40. > :10:44.a season, I am saying this in May. It should be amazing. Thank you for

:10:45. > :10:47.joining us, Jonathan. We will wait to see of Jose Mourinho is announced

:10:48. > :10:50.later today. But for now, back to you, Joanna.

:10:51. > :10:52.A controversial anti-malarial drug - which is sometimes given

:10:53. > :10:54.to British troops - should only be prescribed

:10:55. > :11:06.Some soldiers who have taken it says has ruined their lives.

:11:07. > :11:06.Some soldiers who have taken it says Mefloquine -

:11:07. > :11:09.which is often referred to by its brand name,

:11:10. > :11:11.Larium, and has been linked to mental health illnesses.

:11:12. > :11:17.A group of MPs say the Ministry of Defence is failing to follow

:11:18. > :11:20.guidelines when prescribing it. The MP Doctor Julian Lewis led the

:11:21. > :11:24.review of its use until this programme about his concerns.

:11:25. > :11:29.The reason that makes this case unusual is that the drug's owned

:11:30. > :11:32.manufacturers laid down very stringent rules that they said must

:11:33. > :11:36.manufacturers laid down very be followed if it is to be

:11:37. > :11:39.prescribed safely, it is pretty clear

:11:40. > :11:40.prescribed safely, it is pretty face-to-face individual risk

:11:41. > :11:45.assessment is were not applied. face-to-face individual risk

:11:46. > :11:49.Those procedures were not followed. Therefore the opportunity to screen

:11:50. > :11:57.out people would be most likely to have these side-effects was lost. It

:11:58. > :12:02.was extremely -- there was extremely strong anecdotal evidence from

:12:03. > :12:07.people who would stage to us that the drugs would be given out in just

:12:08. > :12:11.a routine way, without any search face-to-face interviews. What is

:12:12. > :12:16.more, from the MoD side, it was very disturbing that they profess to be

:12:17. > :12:20.unable to show any records proving that these interviews had taken

:12:21. > :12:23.place. They even admitted that they could not guarantee that it had

:12:24. > :12:28.happened in every case. We strongly could not guarantee that it had

:12:29. > :12:32.suspect that it may not have even happened in anything like the

:12:33. > :12:34.majority of cases the minister was good and open enough to offer an

:12:35. > :12:39.apology good and open enough to offer an

:12:40. > :12:43.Armed Forces who might have been prescribed the drug without the

:12:44. > :12:50.appropriate safeguards and interviews having been followed. In

:12:51. > :12:53.reply to the reporter on the today programme, the MoD was reported as

:12:54. > :12:58.saying that programme, the MoD was reported as

:12:59. > :13:04.that a face-to-face risk assessment was always carried out.

:13:05. > :13:04.they might have done what they call desk -based

:13:05. > :13:09.they might have done what they call might look absolutely's paper

:13:10. > :13:14.records and say it is all right to give it to him or her, and it is not

:13:15. > :13:15.OK, and we have seen why in the example you have quoted.

:13:16. > :13:18.Let's talk now to by Lieutenant Colonel Andrew Marriot,

:13:19. > :13:20.who took the drug in 2003 when he was deployed

:13:21. > :13:25.to Sierra Leone and has been living with its effects ever since.

:13:26. > :13:32.Duncan has been placed in a secure hospital, something she attributes

:13:33. > :13:35.And Philippa Tuckman is a solicitor specialising in military

:13:36. > :13:45.She is currently representing a number of clients who took Lariam.

:13:46. > :13:53.Thank you all for joining us. Andrew, first of all, you took Larry

:13:54. > :13:59.in 2003. Tell us what you believe you have suffered as a result? --

:14:00. > :14:03.you took Larry. Good morning. We are enormously grateful to Doctor Lewis

:14:04. > :14:07.and the members of the committee, they have done a fantastic job, and

:14:08. > :14:13.what a shame it is that we have had to wait ten years, possibly more,

:14:14. > :14:19.before the issue starts to move to a resolution. Regarding my own case, I

:14:20. > :14:24.took Lariam for almost a year. Like many others, I was told it was the

:14:25. > :14:30.only drug that would work as an antimalarial in West Africa. I

:14:31. > :14:36.suffered a range of side effects that were supposedly transitory,

:14:37. > :14:43.issues with balance, vision, memory loss, sometimes anger management.

:14:44. > :14:48.Also particularly intrusive dreams and a disturbed sleep pattern. That

:14:49. > :14:54.has become profound and as a permanent legacy for me. So since

:14:55. > :14:58.2002, I have not had an undisturbed night of sleep. I can manage about

:14:59. > :15:03.an hour of sleep, which concludes with very intrusive, sometimes very

:15:04. > :15:09.upsetting, dreams, nightmares, and then I will go back to sleep again.

:15:10. > :15:13.That pattern, for me, goes about five or six times chewing the night.

:15:14. > :15:21.There are a few other lingering issues. Again, related to anger

:15:22. > :15:26.management, a bit like road rage and the forgetful moment, we describe it

:15:27. > :15:29.in the military as the Lariam moment. You are about to say

:15:30. > :15:35.something and you have forgotten your chain of thought. Is that a

:15:36. > :15:36.commonly used phrase? Yes. It is rather like mad Monday for the days

:15:37. > :15:51.when the pills were issued. There is a commonly held

:15:52. > :15:59.misconception because it is a drug it is easy to administer. If you

:16:00. > :16:03.arrive in theatre on a Monday and troops are taking their pills on a

:16:04. > :16:07.Wednesday or Thursday, how do you manage that? I started to suffer

:16:08. > :16:13.side-effects as did many members of the team. It affects 30% to 35% of

:16:14. > :16:18.the people. These can range in severity, but the issue that we

:16:19. > :16:26.raised then and continued to raise is, why on earth would we want to

:16:27. > :16:32.have a drug that causes even these transittry effects dizziness, loss

:16:33. > :16:38.of balance, problems with making clear decisions and on when you are

:16:39. > :16:42.in some of the world's most hazardous environments and armed

:16:43. > :16:48.with lethal weapons, potentially becoming a danger to yourself. The

:16:49. > :16:52.range of issues that Lariam has been implicated with, go beyond some of

:16:53. > :16:57.the more milder ones that have been explored this morning. It has been

:16:58. > :17:02.implicated in extreme acts of violence, probably murder, and also

:17:03. > :17:06.suicide and certainly, suicide is something is something that I've

:17:07. > :17:09.come across in a number of people who have taken Lariam in the

:17:10. > :17:15.articled forces. You said you raised it, who did you raise it with? I

:17:16. > :17:19.raised it with our senior medical officer in Freetown in 2003. I was

:17:20. > :17:27.told that there was no alternative and the sergeant general had

:17:28. > :17:31.conducted a risk assessment and the only drug suitable for that

:17:32. > :17:38.environment was Lariam. So the risk was Lariam or malaria. Now, I had no

:17:39. > :17:44.reason to disbelieve him. We don't interrogate doctors about every

:17:45. > :17:48.aspect of our inoculations. So I continued to take the drug and

:17:49. > :17:56.what's worse is actually that I was then involved in what I described as

:17:57. > :18:00.a chain of command deceit. There is a military of command function to

:18:01. > :18:04.look after your soldiers, those soldiers for whom I was responsible,

:18:05. > :18:07.and some of them were having problems with the drug, I was

:18:08. > :18:10.requiring them to take the drug because I thought that was in the

:18:11. > :18:24.best interests in the same way that I would want to make sure they are

:18:25. > :18:28.drinking clean water and applying suncream. It was only after coming

:18:29. > :18:33.back to England after a year's service and speaking to friends and

:18:34. > :18:36.family, they advised me there were two alternatives. So at that point

:18:37. > :18:39.when you had information that what you were told was not necessarily

:18:40. > :18:43.something that you should take at face value, what did you do with

:18:44. > :18:47.that new knowledge? Did you go back to the Ministry of Defence? I went

:18:48. > :18:50.through my medical chain of command. This is the sort of thing that

:18:51. > :18:56.evolved over the years because I thought this may have just been a

:18:57. > :19:01.one-off. I didn't know a great deal about malaria and tropical diseases,

:19:02. > :19:09.but I knew I had a residual problem. So I asked to be put through some

:19:10. > :19:16.screening by consultants at the tropical diseases unit in Birmingham

:19:17. > :19:20.and perhaps naively I had an expectation that the medical chain

:19:21. > :19:25.of command would at least begin to have some sort of curiosity as to

:19:26. > :19:30.what the problem might be. Of course, you then have to get on with

:19:31. > :19:34.your job. I was very busy. Oddly enough, two years later I had to go

:19:35. > :19:39.back to Sierra Leone and I reported to the same medical centre that had

:19:40. > :19:45.been processing me through these tropical disease consultants. And as

:19:46. > :19:49.part of my predeployment package they said you will need to come here

:19:50. > :19:55.and collect your Lariam. Not have an assessment as what drug would be

:19:56. > :19:58.suitable, so I had put my foot down and said, "I'm not taking that

:19:59. > :20:01.drug." I had to write to the medical centre to say I have had

:20:02. > :20:08.difficulties with this drug. I will not take it. I wish to be given an

:20:09. > :20:14.alternative. Over the years while I was serving and after I have retired

:20:15. > :20:18.I have attempted firstly through the Ministry of Defence because I wanted

:20:19. > :20:21.this to be internal. There was no need for this to have to become a

:20:22. > :20:26.public scandal. Through military chains and medical chains to have

:20:27. > :20:32.this addressed. Using the veterans agency, ministers and so on and

:20:33. > :20:35.there are a whole series of ministers and service chiefs,

:20:36. > :20:38.because they have a role to play in this as well, from 2006 onwards who

:20:39. > :20:41.need to look at their consciences. this as well, from 2006 onwards who

:20:42. > :20:47.I've had a range this as well, from 2006 onwards who

:20:48. > :20:53.seconds of state for defence which range from -- secretaries of state

:20:54. > :20:54.for defence which range from the patronising to frankly

:20:55. > :21:00.for defence which range from the for suggesting that there was a

:21:01. > :21:02.for defence which range from the problem with Lariam. Ultimately,

:21:03. > :21:07.through some excellent journalism by the BBC and the Independent

:21:08. > :21:12.newspaper in particular, the issue really came into the public domain

:21:13. > :21:18.and thankfully, the Defence Select Committee has had a really good look

:21:19. > :21:21.and what is really quite disturbing, there is not that much evidence that

:21:22. > :21:27.was presented to the Select Committee that was not available,

:21:28. > :21:31.that we were not presenting to ministers, service chiefs, over the

:21:32. > :21:37.past five to ten years. Let's talk to Ellen. Ellen, your husband is in

:21:38. > :21:41.past five to ten years. Let's talk Somerset where you're joining us

:21:42. > :21:48.from. Tell us about Alistair? Yeah, good morning. Well, we believe that

:21:49. > :21:55.it is part of what has happened to him and he drove over a land mine in

:21:56. > :22:02.1993 and apparently came out of that unscathed apart from some hearing

:22:03. > :22:08.loss, but there is a note on his medical file which stays PDST

:22:09. > :22:12.question mark but he still had Lariam. He did have a reaction. He

:22:13. > :22:15.was in fact given something else, but then it notes later that six

:22:16. > :22:20.months later, that he was still taking Lariam and his explanation

:22:21. > :22:24.and there appears to be no problem, well, there was. His explanation to

:22:25. > :22:29.me was he was having very bad dreams already since his time in Bosnia and

:22:30. > :22:33.he didn't realise the significance of these because nobody explained it

:22:34. > :22:39.was really serious if he was having these, what we know now are symptom

:22:40. > :22:42.of future problems. And I firmly believe that had there been

:22:43. > :22:46.acknowledgement of this, the treatment that he has received would

:22:47. > :22:53.have been different. He has got other damage. This is part of his

:22:54. > :22:58.story. But the Frankie appalling treatment that he received in the

:22:59. > :23:01.NHS, giving him a series of psychiatric medications which I

:23:02. > :23:04.warned them, I felt from prior experience would cause him an

:23:05. > :23:09.adverse reaction and we believed this is due to the damage that

:23:10. > :23:13.Lariam has done in the brain. I'm not a medic but I can't explain how

:23:14. > :23:16.that happens, but it disturbs the brain in such a way that these drugs

:23:17. > :23:21.cause more damage and we believe that he has as part of his condition

:23:22. > :23:27.a seizure disorder which as it has gone untreated all these years will

:23:28. > :23:31.have po pensionly been going on causing more and more damage to the

:23:32. > :23:34.brain. You are describing a complex picture of what happened to

:23:35. > :23:39.Alistair. Tell us how much you put down to Lariam? And tell us what he

:23:40. > :23:45.was like before and what he is like now? Well, it is difficult for me

:23:46. > :23:50.because I've only been married to Alistair for a short while, we have

:23:51. > :23:56.been together seven years, but as far as all evidence is, you know, he

:23:57. > :24:01.was an efficient, decisive, obviously, I don't believe you

:24:02. > :24:07.achieve the rank of Major General without being a competent officer

:24:08. > :24:19.and since I have known him, I have seen a lot of the symptoms that was

:24:20. > :24:29.being described earlier, the seizures that cause the anger

:24:30. > :24:33.episodes and other behaviour which is episodic. It is difficult to

:24:34. > :24:40.explain because it is very complex, but it mirrors complex PTSD. This

:24:41. > :24:44.drug compounds and confounds the symptoms of PTSD and mall traumatic

:24:45. > :24:47.brain injury. All of which he could be suffering from and potentially he

:24:48. > :24:53.is suffering from and that's our belief that it is a complex mixture

:24:54. > :25:00.of all these things, but the fact that Lariam is part of the mix means

:25:01. > :25:04.that any treatment is potentially not being tailored correctly for

:25:05. > :25:08.him. And this denial which is part of the issue on behalf of the MoD,

:25:09. > :25:14.NHS, etcetera that causes this problem for people. Because I mean,

:25:15. > :25:18.I'm well aware that there are other people who have had these sort of

:25:19. > :25:23.episodes and it has been put down to PTSD and yet they have also taken

:25:24. > :25:29.Lariam. So this is the problem. Thank you, Ellen. Philippa, you are

:25:30. > :25:34.a partner at a law firm looking into this. Yes, indeed. How many

:25:35. > :25:40.individuals and family affected have contacted you? We have been Kontaed

:25:41. > :25:45.by over 470 people who feel they have been affected by Lariam. Over

:25:46. > :25:50.what period of time? That's since the end of last year. So that's a

:25:51. > :25:53.lot of people in a very short time. Why, because Andrew was saying that

:25:54. > :25:59.this has been around for a long time. Why do you think all of a

:26:00. > :26:05.sudden people are coming forward? Well, I act almost exclusively for

:26:06. > :26:09.military personnel generally and my observation has been that it takes a

:26:10. > :26:17.great deal to persuade a soldier that the duty of care doesn't just

:26:18. > :26:22.flow from him or her towards the Ministry of Defence and towards the

:26:23. > :26:25.service, but should go both ways and they too are entitled to the same

:26:26. > :26:31.sort of care that we would expect from our doctors. And because it's

:26:32. > :26:36.so universal, because Lariam is so universal, because it has been so

:26:37. > :26:44.accepted that it causes bad dreams. That it is just part of your service

:26:45. > :26:48.as Andrew was saying, the Lariam moment, it's obviously if it is in

:26:49. > :26:52.such currency you don't tend to think this is causing you enormous

:26:53. > :26:59.trouble and if it is causing you enormous trouble, it is just part of

:27:00. > :27:04.life. So I think that the Defence Committee's inquiry which is a

:27:05. > :27:10.tremendous piece of work and I would entirely endorse what Andrew said

:27:11. > :27:16.about that. I think that caused the interest that had been bubbling away

:27:17. > :27:21.in this drug for sometime to really take off and it started, certainly

:27:22. > :27:27.the people that I've spoken to, started talking about it together on

:27:28. > :27:30.Facebook. Their families would say well, yes, actually I remember that

:27:31. > :27:36.you were fine until you went to Kenya. Then you were not fine when

:27:37. > :27:41.you came back. It just, it all came together at that point, I think. I

:27:42. > :27:44.mean, obviously if there is legal action, the Ministry of Defence will

:27:45. > :27:47.presumably defend it and it has put out a statement today in the wake of

:27:48. > :27:55.the committee finding saying: It says; "The vast majority

:27:56. > :27:57.of deployed personnel already receive alternatives to Lariam

:27:58. > :27:59.and, where it is used, we require it to be prescribed

:28:00. > :28:02.after an individual risk assessment. It goes on to say; "We have a duty

:28:03. > :28:05.to protect our personnel from malaria and we welcome

:28:06. > :28:07.the committee's conclusion that, in some cases, Lariam will be

:28:08. > :28:16.the most effective : Andrew you said, about military

:28:17. > :28:21.personnel not wanting to come forward and make ago fuss. You said

:28:22. > :28:25.there was no need for this to become a public scandal. Would you want to

:28:26. > :28:32.take legal action now? Where are you? It is something I initially

:28:33. > :28:38.resisted. The only reason that I got into contact with lawyers was

:28:39. > :28:41.because of the very sponse by the Ministry of Defence -- response by

:28:42. > :28:45.the Ministry of Defence. I have never been after a financial

:28:46. > :28:48.settlement. What I have been after is proper management of this drug

:28:49. > :28:52.because there are lots of people that have been damaged by this drug

:28:53. > :28:55.and have absolutely no idea that's the cause of it, potentially

:28:56. > :29:02.suicides that have happened within the military and veterans community

:29:03. > :29:06.that completely unrecognised because no one to date has accepted the

:29:07. > :29:11.level of Lariam toxicity that exists. Actually I find the comment

:29:12. > :29:16.from the Ministry of Defence really quite distasteful. What they're

:29:17. > :29:20.saying there is that that is the situation now. Since the Select

:29:21. > :29:25.Committee has begun to take an interest in this. They could hardly

:29:26. > :29:30.say anything else. They are actually unable to provide proper audits for

:29:31. > :29:36.what has been happening over the past three years when the sergeant

:29:37. > :29:42.general said in 2013 there would be effective regimes in place and

:29:43. > :29:48.certainly from 2006, to 2013, when in 2006 the chief of the general

:29:49. > :29:53.staff said that the issue would be addressed and they have manifestly

:29:54. > :29:58.failed in that duty and that's particularly bad given that those

:29:59. > :30:04.assurances were given to the widow of an officer who committed suicide

:30:05. > :30:08.after taking Lariam. When you start to put all of this together and

:30:09. > :30:11.actually we still have a situation, I believe that the sergeant general

:30:12. > :30:15.said this morning that Lariam is a good drug. It is quite

:30:16. > :30:16.extraordinary. We're out of time. Thank you very much. We are out of

:30:17. > :30:30.time. Thank you all very much. Still to come, after a man dies from

:30:31. > :30:36.a peanut allergy because the takeaway owner cut corners with

:30:37. > :30:38.ingredients, we look at the impact of life-threatening allergic

:30:39. > :30:40.disorders. And as British holiday-makers

:30:41. > :30:45.continue to turn their backs on Tunisia after that terror shootings

:30:46. > :30:48.last year, is it time to reconsider the advice not to go there? I will

:30:49. > :30:54.bring some of your thoughts later. Here's Annita McVeigh

:30:55. > :30:56.in the BBC Newsroom Birmingham City Council's children's

:30:57. > :31:08.services are to move The department was described as a

:31:09. > :31:12.national disgrace by Ofsted peers Chief Inspector in 2013, following

:31:13. > :31:17.the deaths of a number of children who were monitored by the city's

:31:18. > :31:21.social workers. The plans are at an early stage and council officials

:31:22. > :31:23.intend to keep control of the design and delivery of services.

:31:24. > :31:25.Environmental groups say they are considering a legal

:31:26. > :31:27.challenge to the decision to allow fracking for shale gas

:31:28. > :31:32.It means that fracking will take place in England for the first time

:31:33. > :31:34.since a ban on the practice was lifted four years ago.

:31:35. > :31:37.North Yorkshire County Council has given permission to the company

:31:38. > :31:45.Third Energy to extract shale gas at a site near Malton.

:31:46. > :31:51.David Cameron has warned that family holidays could go up to around -- by

:31:52. > :31:53.around ?200 if Britain leaves the EU.

:31:54. > :31:56.Speaking to Easyjet workers at Luton airport, Mr Cameron said that a drop

:31:57. > :31:59.in the value of the pound could mean higher prices for food

:32:00. > :32:02.The Ukip leader Nigel Farage is also campaigning this

:32:03. > :32:06.A group of MPs says the Ministry of Defence is failing to follow

:32:07. > :32:08.guidelines when prescribing a controversial anti-malarial

:32:09. > :32:12.Mefloquine - also known by its brand name Lariam - has been

:32:13. > :32:14.linked to depression, panic attacks and hallucinations.

:32:15. > :32:16.The Ministry of Defence says the vast majority

:32:17. > :32:19.of deployed personnel are given alternative drugs.

:32:20. > :32:23.But the MP who led the review told this programme that he is very

:32:24. > :32:31.concerned about the way it has been prescribed.

:32:32. > :32:34.The Government has said there should be an independent inquiry

:32:35. > :32:36.into historic practices relating to infant cremations in Hull.

:32:37. > :32:38.The agreement comes after a long campaign

:32:39. > :32:40.led by Tina and Mike Trowhill after they discovered their son's

:32:41. > :32:42.ashes had been scattered without their knowledge.

:32:43. > :32:46.More than 50 local families have also been affected.

:32:47. > :32:48.Police in Greece have begun moving thousands of stranded migrants

:32:49. > :32:52.from the makeshift Idomeni camp on the Macedonia border.

:32:53. > :32:54.More than 8,000 people, many of them women and children,

:32:55. > :32:58.have been living in the temporary camp since the border crossing

:32:59. > :33:01.and the route to northern Europe was closed in March.

:33:02. > :33:03.The operation began at dawn and is expected

:33:04. > :33:08.There are hundreds of riot police on site but officials say

:33:09. > :33:15.That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC

:33:16. > :33:29.Britain's worst kept secret was confirmed yesterday as Manchester

:33:30. > :33:31.United sacked their manager. Despite being unaware of plans

:33:32. > :33:34.to relieve him of his job, sacked Manchester United manager

:33:35. > :33:36.Louis van Gaal appears to have departed Old Trafford

:33:37. > :33:38.with some class. In a statement, he described United

:33:39. > :33:40.as magnificent club, Those fans are now

:33:41. > :33:43.waiting patiently. United are expected to resume

:33:44. > :33:46.talks with Jose Mourinho Mourinho - seen here

:33:47. > :33:50.in London yesterday - has been out of work since leaving

:33:51. > :33:53.Chelsea last December. Mourinho is expected to offer

:33:54. > :33:55.current number two Ryan Giggs a coaching role but not the job

:33:56. > :33:58.of assistant manager. World number two Andy Murray

:33:59. > :34:00.faces a fight to reach Bad light stopped his match

:34:01. > :34:04.with 37-year-old Radek Stepanek with Murray trailing two

:34:05. > :34:07.sets to one. And Northern Ireland's Rory McIlroy

:34:08. > :34:12.has admitted he may turn down the chance of playing

:34:13. > :34:15.at the Rio Olympics over concerns over the Zika virus as his thoughts

:34:16. > :34:18.turn towards starting a family That's all the sport for now,

:34:19. > :34:25.but I'll have more throughout A huge drop in British tourism

:34:26. > :34:36.in Tunisia is having a significant impact on the lives

:34:37. > :34:39.of people living there. Figures provided to the BBC

:34:40. > :34:41.by the Tunisian Tourist Board shows there's been a 90% fall in UK

:34:42. > :34:44.holiday makers to the North African country in the first four months

:34:45. > :34:48.of this year compared to last year. Only 6,000 British tourists visited

:34:49. > :34:50.the country up to this April. 31 British tourists were killed

:34:51. > :34:53.in two separate terrorist attacks Package holiday companies no longer

:34:54. > :34:59.go to Tunisia on the advice In an interview for BBC

:35:00. > :35:03.Local Radio, Nabil Ammar, the Tunisian Ambassador to the UK

:35:04. > :35:09.said he wants that changed. I think there is a big gap

:35:10. > :35:11.between the perception here of the level of security,

:35:12. > :35:17.and the real security on the ground. There is a big gap

:35:18. > :35:20.for common people. When they reach the travel advice

:35:21. > :35:22.they may think, OK, Whereas, for example,

:35:23. > :35:27.so many successes of our security forces, every week, you know,

:35:28. > :35:32.the terrorist cells This should give a positive image,

:35:33. > :35:44.not a negative one, saying I mean, if we take statistics,

:35:45. > :35:50.you have much less chance to die in Tunisia, or to have

:35:51. > :35:52.any harm in Tunisia, than many other countries

:35:53. > :35:57.so close to us. But the main message again is to not

:35:58. > :36:05.let those who did it any space or room or the possibility

:36:06. > :36:09.to claim any success. I respect the Foreign Office,

:36:10. > :36:14.their support of Tunisia, and we are asking for this support

:36:15. > :36:20.to continue and develop. But, yes, they can help very much

:36:21. > :36:26.if the travel advice would be more targeted in order to not let

:36:27. > :36:28.the impression go out to people that this

:36:29. > :36:35.isn't a safe country. To take into account

:36:36. > :36:47.all of the progress made. It is not helping us

:36:48. > :36:49.at all because security is only Half of the problems, the big half

:36:50. > :36:57.is the economy in Tunisia. And this is not going to help

:36:58. > :37:03.the economy in Tunisia. The tourism sector

:37:04. > :37:09.is very important. Now it is hurting the other sectors

:37:10. > :37:16.connected to tourism. It's part of the solution

:37:17. > :37:18.against terrorism and violence The majority of those youngsters

:37:19. > :37:22.with their brains washed, etc, They can be captured

:37:23. > :37:36.by all of the machine that is behind that and producing at the end

:37:37. > :37:41.of the line, the terrorists. This has hurt Tunisia,

:37:42. > :37:48.as it has hurt the UK. And all of those innocent people

:37:49. > :37:50.who are considered as friends But what I saw last summer

:37:51. > :38:02.was something very, very new, very strange, all of

:38:03. > :38:08.the beaches empty of tourists. We want this drama to make people

:38:09. > :38:17.closer, not to separate us at all. Let's speak now to our reporter

:38:18. > :38:33.Emily Unia, who is in Sousse. Abily, extraordinary figures, a 90%

:38:34. > :38:37.drop in a year. How worried is the Tunisia tourist board? Extremely

:38:38. > :38:42.worried. It is not just about the tourist economy, it is all the other

:38:43. > :38:48.businesses that depend on tourism. Any kind of crust, people running

:38:49. > :38:52.restaurants, taxis, you name it. People are suffering. As one woman

:38:53. > :38:56.put it, she lost her job in the hotel business last year. She said,

:38:57. > :39:01.it is us, we are the people who are hurting. It is not the terrorists.

:39:02. > :39:06.They have won if all the tourist stay away. That is the problem, it

:39:07. > :39:10.is what so-called Islamic State and the other extremists were hoping

:39:11. > :39:14.for, economic damage which leads to disaffected people, particularly

:39:15. > :39:18.young people, making a fertile recruiting ground. Tunisia really

:39:19. > :39:23.has a problem is to risk stay away. It is not just UK visitors that have

:39:24. > :39:28.abandoned Tunisia, it is across the board. The only increases the number

:39:29. > :39:37.are coming from Russia, Algeria and within Tunisia itself.

:39:38. > :39:41.Raouf Jaiem who organises tours around Tunisia, and is in Sousse.

:39:42. > :39:49.What impact does it have on your job and other businesses in the area?

:39:50. > :39:56.The impact of the Foreign Office decision has had a huge impact on

:39:57. > :40:06.the Tunisia economy. About 500,000 workers depend directly or

:40:07. > :40:15.indirectly of tourism. The UK market represented, until July last year,

:40:16. > :40:23.the third most important market. Also, many hotels were working

:40:24. > :40:32.mainly with the British market, which means that since last summer

:40:33. > :40:42.they have lost 70% of their occupancy all year round. This has

:40:43. > :40:48.Starc a huge impact on all these hotels. Last winter, maybe 70% of

:40:49. > :40:56.the hotels were closed, because there were no British tourists in

:40:57. > :41:03.Tunisia. I am myself taking care of a chain of hotels, and I can tell

:41:04. > :41:13.you that one has been totally closed since last September, one will open

:41:14. > :41:16.you that one has been totally closed August, one is open

:41:17. > :41:23.you that one has been totally closed low occupancy. The economic impact

:41:24. > :41:27.for all the sectors, especially, of course, tourism, is terrible. For

:41:28. > :41:34.example, the hotels here are obliged course, tourism, is terrible. For

:41:35. > :41:44.by law to pay all the members of staff 70% of the salary even when

:41:45. > :41:49.they are closed. They can do this for one, two, three months, but they

:41:50. > :41:53.are doing this for one year, and many of them will be closed at least

:41:54. > :42:06.until next summer. You can imagine the situation of this sector. Also,

:42:07. > :42:13.usually in April, thousands of workers are employed in the hotels

:42:14. > :42:22.for the season. Of course, this year no seasonal jobs. All this impact

:42:23. > :42:29.has a very big impact on our day-to-day life. Myself, as an

:42:30. > :42:36.economic agency, I have lost about 90% of my business since last

:42:37. > :42:43.summer. Thank you, Raouf. Peter Kirks joins me in the studio, you

:42:44. > :42:47.run a travel agency in Berkshire called Tunisia First. It is a tour

:42:48. > :42:54.operating business, we have been sending travellers from the UK to

:42:55. > :42:59.Tunisia since 2002. We have lost 50% of our business overnight.

:43:00. > :43:02.Fortunately, since the Arab Spring, we realised we had all RX in one

:43:03. > :43:11.basket and diversified and launched a couple of new products, Just Days

:43:12. > :43:15.Out In and Tuscan Secrets. So we are not totally reliant on Tunisia, but

:43:16. > :43:20.at peak we were carrying around passengers a year. When you lose

:43:21. > :43:25.that amount of business overnight, it takes an awful lot of time and

:43:26. > :43:30.effort to rebuild. But it has not gone completely, you are still

:43:31. > :43:35.sending people to Tunisia. Who is still going via? Are regular clear

:43:36. > :43:41.and tell that we have built up over a number of years. -- our regular

:43:42. > :43:44.clientele. They go back two or three times a year. We point out the

:43:45. > :43:49.current Foreign Office travel advice to make sure they are fully up to

:43:50. > :43:54.date with that, but they still insist on going. Aren't they

:43:55. > :43:58.worried? The God not at all. They know the Tunisia people, they love

:43:59. > :44:03.the country, they feel quite safe in the tourist resorts where they go. I

:44:04. > :44:07.have recently had a client 's comeback from Sousse, who has been

:44:08. > :44:13.there for five months, a long, long stay holiday, he has rebooked to

:44:14. > :44:17.travel at the back end of the year and into next year. Because he

:44:18. > :44:24.believes that the country is safe, as far as he is concerned.

:44:25. > :44:27.What do you think about the Foreign Office guidance? One person says

:44:28. > :44:32.there is no travel guidance against going to Paris and Brussels, but it

:44:33. > :44:35.is not as straightforward as relating to somewhere where

:44:36. > :44:38.something has happened? I sympathise with the advice given out by the

:44:39. > :44:44.Foreign Office. They have the public to protect. We had that tragic

:44:45. > :44:50.incident last year. It caused the deaths of quite a number of British

:44:51. > :44:55.tourists. However, since the Arab Spring, Tunisia has been trying to

:44:56. > :45:02.rebuild its economy. Last year they voted in a new undemocratic

:45:03. > :45:06.Government. -- new and democratic government. They have very little

:45:07. > :45:11.money to develop their businesses. The problem is that the president,

:45:12. > :45:14.when he fled from the country, he took a lot of money out of the

:45:15. > :45:19.country and left them in a very desperate position. They need

:45:20. > :45:24.foreign currency. They need British tourists is to go back there and to

:45:25. > :45:29.support the jobs of the population, as was mentioned. We heard from

:45:30. > :45:32.Raouf about the real impact on businesses which are closing, some

:45:33. > :45:38.of them temporarily, hoping to reopen. Some of them will not be

:45:39. > :45:44.able to reopen. That will have a long-term legacy? It will. It not

:45:45. > :45:49.only just affects the hotels and the ground handlers, but it is local

:45:50. > :45:54.businesses. In the result of poor tell can tally, where the incident

:45:55. > :45:58.happened last year, the port is surrounded by shops, cafes and

:45:59. > :46:02.restaurants. Many of those businesses will have to close

:46:03. > :46:05.because there are no tourists. If there are no tourists, they cannot

:46:06. > :46:12.spend, therefore these companies will cease to operate. It has a

:46:13. > :46:13.huge... It creates a huge problem with the population generally. Thank

:46:14. > :46:17.you. The parents of a man with a nut

:46:18. > :46:20.allergy who died after eating a takeaway curry say restaurant

:46:21. > :46:36.owners need to be more aware Paul Wilson asked for no nuts when

:46:37. > :46:43.staff cooked his chicken tikka masala.

:46:44. > :46:47.Mr Zaman was jailed for six years yesterday after he was convicted of

:46:48. > :46:54.manslaughter by gross negligence. The court was told he swapped almond

:46:55. > :46:58.powder for cheaper ground mix which contains peanuts.

:46:59. > :47:01.Paul's parents are Keith and Margaret Wilson.

:47:02. > :47:10.Paul was a loving son and he loved his sport

:47:11. > :47:14.and he was well aware of his allergy from the age of seven.

:47:15. > :47:16.Very meticulous in ordering food and being in the hospitality

:47:17. > :47:18.industry he was well aware of allergens and giving advice

:47:19. > :47:37.We want to make all the awareness from the trial.

:47:38. > :47:43.It's just to make the awareness for people to be more responsible,

:47:44. > :47:50.more training and everything to make people more aware of the severity.

:47:51. > :47:57.To hear Mr Zaman continually denying he knew of this,

:47:58. > :48:10.of the purchase of the nuts in the first place,

:48:11. > :48:12.as an alternative, it continuing to have known

:48:13. > :48:18.of the other incidents and still in denial.

:48:19. > :48:22.Denial all the way along and that is the hard part.

:48:23. > :48:24.It really is. It should never have happened.

:48:25. > :48:34.If he had only just taken the responsibility and done

:48:35. > :48:42.what he should have done, Paul would still be here.

:48:43. > :48:44.Following the verdict yesterday the message from the Crown

:48:45. > :48:48.If you put the lives of customers at risk,

:48:49. > :48:53.So should restaurants be doing more to protect us?

:48:54. > :48:58.Let's speak now to Mark Laurie who is the director

:48:59. > :49:03.Gos Gosal who is head chef and director of Fresh

:49:04. > :49:08.Nathalie Dyson-Coope whose four-year-old son Callum has

:49:09. > :49:11.severe allergies to milk and nuts, and also to Josh Abbott,

:49:12. > :49:13.who is allergic to peanuts and suffers from

:49:14. > :49:25.Thank you very much for joining us. Lum I know you've got your

:49:26. > :49:29.Thank you very much for joining us. your TV. Mark, I wanted to come to

:49:30. > :49:34.you first to get your reaction to that guilty verdict.

:49:35. > :49:37.you first to get your reaction to to be honest. I think that

:49:38. > :49:39.you first to get your reaction to caterer in question, you know, is

:49:40. > :49:43.pretty negligent hearing from the court case. Most

:49:44. > :49:48.food businesses wouldn't act like that. You would hope, but it will be

:49:49. > :49:53.a wake-up call to anyone running a food business in the UK of what can

:49:54. > :49:54.happen if you're not responsible and don't take the required steps to

:49:55. > :49:59.ensure that your customers are don't take the required steps to

:50:00. > :50:03.How much awareness is there over nut allergies in kitchens? Any

:50:04. > :50:06.allergies? I mean, there has been a law in place more about a

:50:07. > :50:10.year-and-a-half now, so all food businesses have a legal obligation

:50:11. > :50:14.to train their staff and to understand the risks and to

:50:15. > :50:16.to train their staff and to appropriately. But yeah, I'm sure

:50:17. > :50:20.that, there could be more done to get that message

:50:21. > :50:22.that, there could be more done to you're hear with Calum. Calum has a

:50:23. > :50:28.severe nut allergy? He does, indeed. severe nut allergy? He does, indeed.

:50:29. > :50:30.you go out and someone else severe nut allergy? He does, indeed.

:50:31. > :50:35.preparing the food? It is like severe nut allergy? He does, indeed.

:50:36. > :50:40.can tell them what he needs and severe nut allergy? He does, indeed.

:50:41. > :50:45.he needs to avoid to try and keep him as safe as possible, but at the

:50:46. > :50:49.end of the day it is a big element of trust to find out if he is OK.

:50:50. > :50:52.There have been occasions when people listened and there were no

:50:53. > :50:57.problems, but there were occasions when we have eaten and in two

:50:58. > :51:00.he has a reaction with hives and swelling of his lips. In spite of

:51:01. > :51:04.the fact you would say that the allergies that he has? Absolutely.

:51:05. > :51:09.On occasion I have had to pull out the epi-pen and said, "You really do

:51:10. > :51:12.need to listen to us. A little bit will kill him. It is not oh, it is

:51:13. > :51:17.going to give him a sore tummy. It is a life or death situation for

:51:18. > :51:20.him." Calum, you are aware of the fact that you've got the nut

:51:21. > :51:23.allergies, do you tell everybody that's something you need to be

:51:24. > :51:25.careful about? Do you

:51:26. > :51:29.careful about? to be careful with your food?

:51:30. > :51:36.Everybody who is around somebody with a nut allergy has to be aware

:51:37. > :51:39.and act responsibly? He has 18 severe allergies so we have got a

:51:40. > :51:42.lot that we are trying to control at any one time. As long as you're

:51:43. > :51:45.making sure that people are aware of what's going oranges nine times out

:51:46. > :51:49.of ten, it is OK, but people need to take the responsibility and say,

:51:50. > :51:53."Right this is serious. We can't say OK, a little bit is OK. It is like

:51:54. > :51:57.we'll stick some arsenic in the coffee, that will be OK. No, it is

:51:58. > :52:00.quite serious. That's when they take on board that it is something that

:52:01. > :52:05.needs to be listened to and people that are doing the catering need to

:52:06. > :52:10.be aware of the consequences. Josh, you have got a nut allergy as well,

:52:11. > :52:15.do you worry about eating out? Yes, definitely. Trying new places and

:52:16. > :52:18.new restaurants, I have to check the menu and ask the staff if anything

:52:19. > :52:21.does contain nuts and then, you know, if the staff haven't been

:52:22. > :52:25.trained fully, if they are not aware, there is the chance of taking

:52:26. > :52:30.the risk of do they actually know what is in there? Have you had any

:52:31. > :52:37.bad experiences? I have a couple of times. A few times when I have been

:52:38. > :52:45.eating abroad. There were restaurants that cook meatballs in

:52:46. > :52:48.peanut oil. Lucky, I didn't go into full anaphylactic shock, but that's

:52:49. > :52:54.just lucky really. Do you have to have an epi-pen all the time? I

:52:55. > :53:00.carry an epi-pen with me. Touf make sure I have had with me at all times

:53:01. > :53:05.just in case. How much awareness is there in the kitchen that you work

:53:06. > :53:14.around this? We take any sort of allergies serious, whether it is

:53:15. > :53:17.gluten, lactouse, staff have to be trained because rules are changing

:53:18. > :53:20.all the time within the industry. Mark was saying about the allergy

:53:21. > :53:23.thing came in so we have to list everything that goes out the

:53:24. > :53:28.conservativen, what's in there, what's in this and if you can train

:53:29. > :53:31.your staff and make sure staff responsible for what they are

:53:32. > :53:35.cooking and how they are cooking it, that's a stepping stone in the right

:53:36. > :53:39.direction. We can't make mistakes like this guy did and you can't have

:53:40. > :53:44.that ever happening again. That's the last thing anybody wants to

:53:45. > :53:48.happen is somebody passing away from eating something they shouldn't eat.

:53:49. > :53:51.He was using peanut powder. Josh said about something being cooked in

:53:52. > :53:58.peanut oil. Are these products that are widely used? Within the industry

:53:59. > :54:01.different caterers will use different types of oils and

:54:02. > :54:06.different methods of cooking. Why use them if there is potentially a

:54:07. > :54:10.serious side-effect? I think, it could do with pricing. It could be

:54:11. > :54:14.to do with the flavouring. A number of things, but I think, what it

:54:15. > :54:18.comes down to is if you are using peanut oil like you were saying,

:54:19. > :54:23.this needs to be advertised. It should be on every menu? I think it

:54:24. > :54:27.needs to be shown. Does it? It is not always shown because people

:54:28. > :54:31.don't realise it is part of the ingredients. As long as we are told

:54:32. > :54:35.that it is used, they don't have to change anything. Let us know so we

:54:36. > :54:38.can make a judged and informed opinion about whether it is safe.

:54:39. > :54:44.What about making that an obligation? Well, it is. It should

:54:45. > :54:49.be on the menu? A food business should have a sign up saying what

:54:50. > :54:53.allergens are in the food or a sign up saying, "Ask us about the

:54:54. > :54:56.allergens." The staff should be able to inform the customer about what

:54:57. > :55:00.process is going on within the kitchen and what ingredients and

:55:01. > :55:04.what risk of cross-contamination. These are legal obligations which

:55:05. > :55:10.the business on this occasion failed on. Natalie likened peanuts for her

:55:11. > :55:15.son as being like arsenic to any of us. Arsenic wouldn't be used in any

:55:16. > :55:20.kitchen. Therefore, is there any place in catering kitchens for

:55:21. > :55:26.peanut oil, peanut powder, anything else that's widely used where it is

:55:27. > :55:30.not an essential part of a recipe? If you're doing it due to course,

:55:31. > :55:36.there are questions whether you need to do it, but... I think if it is

:55:37. > :55:40.part of a recipe, you can't really avoid not using that ingredient. But

:55:41. > :55:45.you have to make the client aware or the customer aware that you are

:55:46. > :55:51.using an ingredient that has nuts in it. It is obvious with most things

:55:52. > :55:57.if there are nuts in it, but with a peanut oil or something... I create

:55:58. > :56:01.recipes, but use an equivalent so they are safe for people with

:56:02. > :56:06.allergies, it doesn't have to be peanut, but if you are using it,

:56:07. > :56:13.declare it and let people know. It is Trading Standards rather than

:56:14. > :56:17.Environmental Health that manage the allergen issue because it is

:56:18. > :56:21.labelling. If you are clear with your customers, don't walk into my

:56:22. > :56:23.restaurant because there is a chance that there are peanuts in there.

:56:24. > :56:29.Unfortunately, this isn't the place for you. That is a far better bit of

:56:30. > :56:33.advice to give an allergen sufferer than letting them risk walking

:56:34. > :56:37.through the door and ordering the wrong food and relying on staff to

:56:38. > :56:42.get it right. There were a couple of instances were I was going out to

:56:43. > :56:45.eat at a restaurant and they cooked all of their fried food in peanut

:56:46. > :56:50.oil. I wasn't made aware of this. There was nothing that jumped out at

:56:51. > :57:00.me visibly on the restaurant. So chips, anything? Chips, anything

:57:01. > :57:04.fried was done in peanut oil. There was nothing to indicate this.

:57:05. > :57:08.Luckily, I noticed the boxes of peanut oil were there and had to

:57:09. > :57:11.leave, but if I hadn't of gone in that entrance, fi I sat down and

:57:12. > :57:15.ordered and somebody next to me could have sat down with a bowl of

:57:16. > :57:21.chips and the airborne allergens could have affected me. Definitely

:57:22. > :57:25.more needs to be done to make clients and customers aware of what

:57:26. > :57:30.is being used in ingredients. The legislation that came on in December

:57:31. > :57:34.2014 has improved this, but I think there is a lot more to do. I mean

:57:35. > :57:38.you've got people like can I eat there is a fantastic site to find

:57:39. > :57:41.out if it is safe, you can type in whoever you want to go and eat and

:57:42. > :57:45.they have got menu options available. We're out of time and

:57:46. > :57:46.Calum had enough as well! We'll stop it there. Thank you very much. Thank

:57:47. > :57:49.you. Have you decided how you're

:57:50. > :57:52.going to vote in the EU referendum? Well if you're still not sure

:57:53. > :57:55.whether to vote in or out, come along and take part in one

:57:56. > :57:58.of our big TV audience debates On 6th June, we're in Manchester -

:57:59. > :58:02.that's just over a fortnight It's open to everyone and will take

:58:03. > :58:06.place in our normal airtime If you want to take part

:58:07. > :58:11.and can get to Manchester from wherever you are in the UK,

:58:12. > :58:13.do e-mail: victoria@bbc.co.uk to have your chance to quiz

:58:14. > :58:24.and listen to senior politicians Thank you very much for your

:58:25. > :58:32.company. I will you at the same time tomorrow. Bye-bye.

:58:33. > :58:34.The biggest and bloodiest naval battle...

:58:35. > :58:41.You've got to be able to hit that target before it hits you.

:58:42. > :58:45.In its centenary year, join Dan Snow...