31/05/2016

:00:18. > :00:19.Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:20. > :00:27.Our top story today: Iraqi special forces try to retake the city

:00:28. > :00:30.of Falluja from Islamic State fighters - as fears grow

:00:31. > :00:38.Also on the programme: Were zookeepers right to shoot dead

:00:39. > :00:41.an endangered gorilla when a four year old boy fell into an enclosure?

:00:42. > :00:46.We're talking about an animal that I've seen, with one hand,

:00:47. > :00:50.The boy survived - but would he still be alive

:00:51. > :00:51.if zookeepers hadn't shot the gorilla?

:00:52. > :00:56.Do get in touch and tell us your thoughts this morning.

:00:57. > :01:11.The two fleets met in the historic battle of Jutland.

:01:12. > :01:14.The battle of Jutland 100 years ago today cost the lives of 8500

:01:15. > :01:16.men in just 36 hours - during the first world war.

:01:17. > :01:19.We'll hear from relatives of some of those involved in the naval

:01:20. > :01:35.Welcome to the programme, we're on air till 11 this morning

:01:36. > :01:40.on the BBC News channel - and on BBC 2 we're off air

:01:41. > :01:44.at the slightly earlier time of 10.43.

:01:45. > :01:47.After 10 this morning we'll talk to the Labour MP Jess Phillips

:01:48. > :01:50.who says in the last 36 hours she's received thousands of messages

:01:51. > :01:53.Is enough being done to tackle online abuse?

:01:54. > :01:56.And of course we'll keep you up to date on the latest breaking news

:01:57. > :01:58.and developing stories throughout the programme.

:01:59. > :02:01.Plus if you have a story to tell or an experience

:02:02. > :02:06.to share, do get in touch - use the hashtag Victoria Live

:02:07. > :02:12.and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:13. > :02:14.The Iraqi military say special forces

:02:15. > :02:16.are leading a battle to recapture the city of Falluja

:02:17. > :02:27.It was seized by IS more than two years ago.

:02:28. > :02:29.Commanders say they've met fierce opposition, including snipers

:02:30. > :02:35.It's believed there are 50,000 people still

:02:36. > :02:43.Fighters are being widely accused of using them as human shields.

:02:44. > :02:46.This is footage released by the Iraqi Ministry of Defence,

:02:47. > :02:49.which it says shows air strikes targeting so-called Islamic State

:02:50. > :02:52.With help from US-led coalition air strikes as well,

:02:53. > :02:54.the Iraqi military is creeping closer to the centre

:02:55. > :02:56.of the city, and closer to a possible all-out offensive.

:02:57. > :02:59.Over the last few days, the Iraqi army, with the help

:03:00. > :03:01.of Shi'ite militia, have been fighting to retake

:03:02. > :03:14.It is believed the military wants to create a ring of steel around

:03:15. > :03:21.the city, sealing in the IS fighters and then defeating them.

:03:22. > :03:24.In the north-west, it is said the advance is slower as forces

:03:25. > :03:26.fight to secure villages on the outskirts of Falluja.

:03:27. > :03:28.Perhaps in retaliation, IS carried out suicide bombings

:03:29. > :03:30.in the capital, Baghdad, the worst was here in Shaab

:03:31. > :03:36.As the battle for Falluja continues, the few to make it out of the city,

:03:37. > :03:40.besieged for some nine months now, tell their harrowing tales.

:03:41. > :03:46.TRANSLATION: We were surrounded by Daesh for more than two years.

:03:47. > :03:51.We survived on barley bread because there is no food.

:03:52. > :03:54.Once the army has surrounded the city, militia commanders say

:03:55. > :03:58.there may well be a pause to allow thousands of the trapped civilians

:03:59. > :04:06.Maxine is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:04:07. > :04:17.Good morning. There was a warning that three quarters of older

:04:18. > :04:18.children with type two diabetes are not receiving key checks to keep the

:04:19. > :04:22.conditions under control. The figures come from an audit

:04:23. > :04:25.of their care in England and Wales. Health officials recommend

:04:26. > :04:26.all children with diabetes have their blood sugar levels

:04:27. > :04:29.checked, and those aged 12 and over should have six other

:04:30. > :04:32.check-ups every year. Here's our health

:04:33. > :04:36.correspondent Jane Dreaper. But this can make managing her blood

:04:37. > :04:44.sugar levels tricky as she has type 1 diabetes, meaning her body

:04:45. > :04:48.cannot produce insulin. At the moment, we look for better

:04:49. > :04:54.ways of managing it for her. We look at ways to make her more

:04:55. > :04:57.independent in managing it, Being on an insulin pump

:04:58. > :05:01.and the CGMS system means she can go about her daily life

:05:02. > :05:03.without constantly Doctors have taken a close look

:05:04. > :05:10.at the care provided to all diabetic They examined data for almost 28,000

:05:11. > :05:15.youngsters, the vast majority A growing proportion have excellent

:05:16. > :05:19.control of their blood sugar levels, but only a quarter appear to have

:05:20. > :05:26.seven vital healthcare tests. All of these healthcare checks

:05:27. > :05:28.are checking for the possibility If you find changes you can work

:05:29. > :05:34.with the family and the child Put your six grams in, and it

:05:35. > :05:43.will give you a correction as well. Amber is lucky, she has excellent

:05:44. > :05:50.care from a specialist team. She and her family work hard to make

:05:51. > :05:53.sure her condition is well managed. The charity Diabetes UK hope

:05:54. > :05:56.all children will have this level An inquiry into historical child sex

:05:57. > :06:05.abuse in Northern Ireland is due to begin examining allegations

:06:06. > :06:07.relating to the Kincora Three senior care staff

:06:08. > :06:13.there were jailed in 1981 for abuse. The inquiry, led by a retired senior

:06:14. > :06:16.High court judge, is expected to look at claims of links

:06:17. > :06:20.to the intelligence services. It's already examined

:06:21. > :06:25.allegations relating Both MI5 and MI6 have

:06:26. > :06:29.agreed to take part. Families of patients who were abused

:06:30. > :06:33.by staff at Winterbourne View private hospital say not enough

:06:34. > :06:35.is being done to improve services for adults

:06:36. > :06:42.with learning disabilities. They've written an open letter

:06:43. > :06:45.to David Cameron saying they're angry that changes in the system

:06:46. > :06:48.are too slow. The abuse was exposed by BBC

:06:49. > :06:50.Panorama five years ago. You may find some of the images

:06:51. > :06:52.in Sangita Myska's It was the BBC's secret filming

:06:53. > :06:59.here at the private specialist hospital Winterbourne View that

:07:00. > :07:02.deeply shocked patients' families and the authorities involved

:07:03. > :07:08.in providing care for people The Panorama investigation showed

:07:09. > :07:11.staff abusing patients at the private unit and repeated

:07:12. > :07:15.incidents of severe neglect. It revealed that some patients

:07:16. > :07:18.who should have had their needs assessed and then moved on had been

:07:19. > :07:25.stuck there for years. All the patients involved had

:07:26. > :07:28.had their care paid for by the NHS Today, families of Winterbourne

:07:29. > :07:35.View's former residents have openly expressed their anger at the lack

:07:36. > :07:37.of change five years on, despite clear commitments and plans

:07:38. > :07:44.from the Government and NHS. The open letter claims that 3,500

:07:45. > :07:46.people, including over 160 children, are stuck in places

:07:47. > :07:50.like Winterbourne View In response to the families,

:07:51. > :07:56.NHS England tell us that they recognise the pace

:07:57. > :08:05.of reform has not been fast enough. They add that far-reaching plans

:08:06. > :08:07.designed to provide what they call high-quality alternative care

:08:08. > :08:11.to hospitals are now under way. Winterbourne View in Bristol

:08:12. > :08:14.was closed down following the BBC's investigation, but according

:08:15. > :08:18.to campaigners, the risk to residents in similar assessment

:08:19. > :08:24.and treatment units still exist. to residents in similar assessment

:08:25. > :08:26.and treatment units still exists. An Australian family at risk

:08:27. > :08:31.of being deported from the UK have been told they can stay

:08:32. > :08:33.until August, but will not be Kathryn Brain, her husband

:08:34. > :08:39.Gregg and son Lachlan moved to Dingwall in the Highlands

:08:40. > :08:42.in 2011 on a student visa, The family had thought

:08:43. > :08:46.they were at risk of being They'll be speaking

:08:47. > :08:52.to Victoria after 10. A French gardener who murdered

:08:53. > :08:54.a British woman at her home in Southern France has been jailed

:08:55. > :08:57.for 30 years. Jean-Louis Cayrou was found

:08:58. > :09:00.guilty by a French court of killing Patricia Wilson,

:09:01. > :09:03.who was 58, after their The director of a zoo

:09:04. > :09:11.in the United States has defended the shooting dead of a silverback

:09:12. > :09:15.gorilla, after a four year old boy There have been protests

:09:16. > :09:19.at Cincinatti Zoo, but staff there insist that critics are not

:09:20. > :09:22.in a position to make a judgement It was the moment

:09:23. > :09:29.every parent dreads. A little boy dragged around

:09:30. > :09:32.by the ankle like a rag doll. Ten minutes that ends

:09:33. > :09:37.with the animal being The footage of the four-year-old's

:09:38. > :09:42.terrifying ordeal at the hands of a silverback clearly shocking

:09:43. > :09:45.to those outside the gorilla pen, and to anyone else who saw it

:09:46. > :09:51.beamed across the world. After animal rights protests

:09:52. > :09:53.that the gorilla could have been tranquillised rather than killed,

:09:54. > :09:55.the director of Cincinnati Zoo stood Looking back, we would make

:09:56. > :09:59.the same decision. I know that after it is over

:10:00. > :10:02.and the child is safe, it is easy like a Monday morning

:10:03. > :10:08.quarterback to say wow, don't The people who say that, A,

:10:09. > :10:13.don't understand primate biology and silverback gorillas

:10:14. > :10:16.and the danger the child was in, and, B, were not there

:10:17. > :10:18.at an important time We stand by our decision,

:10:19. > :10:23.wewould make the same call today. We stand by our decision,

:10:24. > :10:26.we would make the same call today. Outside the zoo, the death

:10:27. > :10:30.of Harambe, a 17-year-old western lowland gorilla whose species

:10:31. > :10:34.is listed as endangered, A fellow Cincinnatian

:10:35. > :10:38.who lived his life in captivity, and through no fault

:10:39. > :10:41.of his own was thrust into a horrible, terrible situation,

:10:42. > :10:45.and he lost his life. Cincinnati Zoo maintains

:10:46. > :10:49.the exhibit was safe The boy apparently climbed over

:10:50. > :10:55.a three foot barrier. He has received hospital treatment

:10:56. > :10:57.that his injuries are not said The zoo says Harambe's DNA

:10:58. > :11:01.was saved, and it will be used as part of an ongoing

:11:02. > :11:03.breeding programme. And Victoria will be talking

:11:04. > :11:11.to three wildlife experts about whether the zoo was right

:11:12. > :11:16.to shoot the gorilla - that's just that's just after the sport

:11:17. > :11:19.at 9.15. Ceremonies will be held

:11:20. > :11:22.in Orkney and at sea today, to mark 100 years since Britain

:11:23. > :11:25.and Germany fought the naval Battle of Jutland in which more than 8,000

:11:26. > :11:28.sailors lost their lives. British and German warships

:11:29. > :11:31.will scatter symbols of remembrance on the waters of the Jutland Bank,

:11:32. > :11:34.above the wrecks of ships The Duke of Edinburgh was due

:11:35. > :11:42.to attend but withdrew, Our correspondent Robert Hall

:11:43. > :11:54.is at St Magnus Cathedral Give us a sense of what we can

:11:55. > :11:57.expect. Good morning. From Britain's most northerly cathedral, the

:11:58. > :12:00.Princess Royal leading commemorations both here and at the

:12:01. > :12:17.old cemetery overlooking what was the bleat Anchorage. -- the fleet.

:12:18. > :12:22.The result of the Battle of Jutland clash was horrendous, losses and a

:12:23. > :12:27.rather indecisive finish because the German fleet did manage to get back

:12:28. > :12:35.to port. The action prevented them from coming out in any way in the

:12:36. > :12:44.rest of the war. What one is most struck by the small number of

:12:45. > :12:48.headstones for those people. Thousands of men, British and

:12:49. > :12:55.Germans still lie on the sea bed on the Battle of Jutland bank. There

:12:56. > :12:58.will be a programme later at 1045 and also this afternoon.

:12:59. > :13:01.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:13:02. > :13:13.Later in the programme we'll talk to relatives of those who fought

:13:14. > :13:19.So many of you getting in touch already about the gorilla.

:13:20. > :13:21.Do get in touch with us throughout the morning -

:13:22. > :13:25.use the hashtag Victoria Live and If you text, you will be charged

:13:26. > :13:33.One woman said that the time-lapse could have been fatal for the boy.

:13:34. > :13:38.Do not knock the guys who made the decision, they feel bad enough that

:13:39. > :13:42.they were put in that decision in the first place. Julie says I am

:13:43. > :13:47.disgusted by the death of the gorilla, people need to be extra

:13:48. > :13:51.careful, this mother was not. This particular enclosure will be

:13:52. > :13:55.reopened without any modifications to the surrounding fencing. I don't

:13:56. > :13:59.know if that is true, I am sure they will close the gap. Do get in touch

:14:00. > :14:15.with us throughout the morning. We have a special guest this

:14:16. > :14:19.morning. Here are our headlines. Not just England beating Sri Lanka by

:14:20. > :14:25.nine wickets to win the Test series, but Alastair Cook finally brought up

:14:26. > :14:30.his 10,000 test runs. He is the youngest player at 31 to reach that

:14:31. > :14:37.milestone. The Indian great stashing temple garden is 6000 runs ahead.

:14:38. > :14:42.Roy Hodgson will name his final squad for the European Championship

:14:43. > :14:48.later today. He needs to trim his squad by two England players, that

:14:49. > :14:53.will be down to 23. Daniel Sturridge may be one of those to miss out. The

:14:54. > :14:57.big question over the Wales squad announcement is whether Joe Ledley

:14:58. > :15:01.will be included, he fractured his leg earlier this month, but he could

:15:02. > :15:05.be fit for the final group match. Pele is selling all his football

:15:06. > :15:10.medals and memorabilia, the reason is that the auction are on clear,

:15:11. > :15:15.but it is expected to raise more than ?3 million. The 75-year-old is

:15:16. > :15:21.even selling the boots that he wore in the film escape to victory. The

:15:22. > :15:33.trivia question is what of Pele and the new champion Tony Bellew got in

:15:34. > :15:44.common? You have both starred alongside Sylvester Stallone. In

:15:45. > :15:48.Creed, you fought at Goodison Park, on Sunday night you fought at

:15:49. > :15:53.Goodison Park to become the new WBC cruiserweight champion.

:15:54. > :15:59.The dream became a reality is the best way of seeing it. It was a life

:16:00. > :16:05.long dream and it was fulfilled on Sunday. You had a few bumps and

:16:06. > :16:09.bruises going into the fight. You broke your nose and you thought this

:16:10. > :16:12.isn't going very well, and you knocked him out in the third? I

:16:13. > :16:15.first his also in the first and we got down to business and I settled

:16:16. > :16:20.it all in the third. An amazing fight to be part of. I'm happy and

:16:21. > :16:25.blessed and feel so lucky to have won this amazing, fantastic belt.

:16:26. > :16:30.The most prenlg staopeblegous belt in boxing. British fight scene is

:16:31. > :16:35.buzzing. You are the 13th world champion. 13 world champions and the

:16:36. > :16:41.only WBC one. It is a proud, proud moment. Something like I say, I have

:16:42. > :16:45.chased my whole life and career. 20 years of work has gone into this and

:16:46. > :16:50.I have achieved the dream of winning it. An amazing achievement and goal.

:16:51. > :16:54.Listen, it is down to me kids. I fight for them, me boys and me

:16:55. > :16:59.family and stuff and I achieve this great goal through them. Boxers

:17:00. > :17:03.always have options. There are other cruiser weights out there with world

:17:04. > :17:12.titles. There are other great British fighters, but you probably

:17:13. > :17:20.is a to step, have a pop at David Haye? Look, I don't want any

:17:21. > :17:25.cherry-picking. I'm happy to fight David Haye. He put out an Instagram

:17:26. > :17:32.video of me saying, "Come and get it." Anyone can get it in any weight

:17:33. > :17:38.division. I'm the best cruiserweight in the world and I will beat every

:17:39. > :17:46.small heavyweight and David Haye is a small heavyweight. He called you

:17:47. > :17:50.out. You called him out. There you go, Victoria, a world champion and a

:17:51. > :17:58.movie star. Thank you. Thank you very much, Tony as well.

:17:59. > :18:01.Were zookeepers right to shoot a gorilla when a four-year-old boy

:18:02. > :18:05.Really keen to hear your views on this throughout the programme.

:18:06. > :18:09.Overnight, one of the bosses of Cincinnati Zoo in America says

:18:10. > :18:12.he stands by the decision to shoot the gorilla called Harambe.

:18:13. > :18:14.Thayne Maynard says the gorilla had been agitated and disorientated

:18:15. > :18:27.Looking back we would make the same decision. I know that after it is

:18:28. > :18:31.over and the child is safe, it is easy like a Monday morning

:18:32. > :18:37.quarterback to look back and say, "Wow, wow, don't we need to do that

:18:38. > :18:41.differently?" The people that say that don't understand primates and

:18:42. > :18:45.the danger that the child was in and B, we're not there at an important

:18:46. > :18:50.time to make important decisions. We stand by our decision. We would make

:18:51. > :18:53.the same call today. That said, we were very glad that the little boy

:18:54. > :18:58.is OK. That's one happy thing in a dangerous and bad story. Naturally,

:18:59. > :19:07.we did not take the shooting of Harambe lightly. But that child's

:19:08. > :19:13.life was in danger. And people who question that or are Monday morning

:19:14. > :19:17.quarterbacks or second-guessers don't understand that you can't take

:19:18. > :19:20.a risk with a silver back gorilla because they are three times bigger

:19:21. > :19:26.than a man and six times stronger than that this. Is a dangerous

:19:27. > :19:31.animal. I know photos and videos, gosh it doesn't seem dangerous. We

:19:32. > :19:38.are talking about an animal with one hand that I have seen take a coconut

:19:39. > :19:42.and crunch it. He was disorientated. He never had anything like that

:19:43. > :19:47.going on and that also led to the decision, of course, not to dart the

:19:48. > :19:52.animal. In the real world you make difficult calls, but you have to

:19:53. > :19:55.make them and the safety of that child was paramount.

:19:56. > :20:10.Could the gorilla which weighs about 400lbs and was the dominant male

:20:11. > :20:12.in the pack - have put the boy's life in danger?

:20:13. > :20:16.The zoo argue that a tranquiliser wasn't appropriate as it would take

:20:17. > :20:19.ten minutes to take effect by which time it could be too late.

:20:20. > :20:23.But the boy - who hasn't been named - had already spent ten minutes

:20:24. > :20:24.with in the enclosure and wasn't hurt.

:20:25. > :20:27.Some witnesses say they're convinced Harambe was trying to protect him.

:20:28. > :20:30.The footage which at one point shows the gorilla holding the boy's

:20:31. > :20:33.hands before dragging him away from the noisy crowd really

:20:34. > :20:36.is amazing, but clearly only tells a small part of the story.

:20:37. > :20:38.Our understanding of gorillas has been helped by a famous episode

:20:39. > :20:41.of Life on Earth in 1979 which featured Sir David Attenborough

:20:42. > :20:45.with a group of young male mountain gorillas.

:20:46. > :20:54.There is more meaning and mutual understand in exchanging of grunts

:20:55. > :20:57.with a gorilla than any other animal I know.

:20:58. > :21:00.Nearly 200,000 people have now signed an online petition in protest

:21:01. > :21:03.at the killing of Harambe with calls for the boy's parents

:21:04. > :21:13.Questions are also being asked about the safety levels at the zoo

:21:14. > :21:15.which allowed the four-year-old to crawl through a fence

:21:16. > :21:18.In a statement on Facebook his family say the boy,

:21:19. > :21:21.who hasn't been identified, is "doing just fine" and thanked zoo

:21:22. > :21:25.They go on to say that they realise it was a difficult decision

:21:26. > :21:28.for the zoo staff to shoot Harambe and that staff are grieving

:21:29. > :21:32.With me to talk about this is Jillian Miller, Director

:21:33. > :21:39.Ian Redmond is founder and chairman of the Ape Alliance.

:21:40. > :21:40.And Gisela Kaplan, Professor in Animal Behaviour

:21:41. > :21:47.at the University of New England in Australia.

:21:48. > :21:55.Gillian, did the zoo staff dot right thing? Who knows? It is a tragic,

:21:56. > :21:59.tragic incident. We weren't there. I looked at that footage, I err on the

:22:00. > :22:03.side of the people who said the gorilla could have been protecting

:22:04. > :22:07.the child, but how could the zoo take the risk. They must be heart

:22:08. > :22:11.broken. Thank goodness the boy is all right and he is recovering, but

:22:12. > :22:15.the keeper was so close to that gorilla. All those people would have

:22:16. > :22:19.loved that gorilla. They must be heart broken today. It is an awful

:22:20. > :22:23.thing. Ian, I think, I think I'm right in saying you're holding the

:22:24. > :22:27.microphone for David Attenborough in the clip that we just showed when he

:22:28. > :22:31.was with the young mountain gorillas, you clearly know a lot

:22:32. > :22:36.about the species. As much as you can, what is your reading from what

:22:37. > :22:41.you saw on the mobile phone footage? Well, I agree with Gillian, we

:22:42. > :22:45.weren't there, we cannot judge the decision because in the moments

:22:46. > :22:52.before the man pulled the trigger and I am assuming it was a man, they

:22:53. > :22:57.had to take that decision. I do wonder, this would be my question if

:22:58. > :23:02.I could talk to them, whilst sharing their grief for the loss of the

:23:03. > :23:08.gorilla, what nonlethal measures were in place in their protocols

:23:09. > :23:12.that they tried. Had they tried diverting the gorilla's attention

:23:13. > :23:16.with favourite foods? Had they tried just trying to calm the situation

:23:17. > :23:21.down? Gorillas have a mind. They think. Clearly, he was stressed. A

:23:22. > :23:26.lot of people shouting and scream, but the longest bit of video footage

:23:27. > :23:30.is online is over two minutes and we are told that the incident lasted

:23:31. > :23:35.ten minutes before they took the final shot. Do I should they should

:23:36. > :23:43.have tried other methods? Yes, I do. By all means have a man with a gun

:23:44. > :23:46.ready to shoot if the other methods aren't working, but I don't know

:23:47. > :23:53.what other methods were tried. We are told there was a command to the

:23:54. > :23:58.group of gorillas, a command to move towards the door which two of the

:23:59. > :24:06.gorillas did do, but not Harambe. Yes. He was clearly stressed and

:24:07. > :24:10.something really different was happening and the video footage we

:24:11. > :24:15.have seen show him both asserting his dominance in dragging the boy

:24:16. > :24:19.through the moat, but interacting gently with the boy, but then we

:24:20. > :24:24.don't know what happened in the next few minutes. People were apparently

:24:25. > :24:28.herded away from the enclosure, but they were close enough to hear the

:24:29. > :24:34.shot. Yeah. Those are the crucial minutes. I do wonder, you look at

:24:35. > :24:39.what police or prison officers have to do when they have to quell a

:24:40. > :24:44.disturbance and have various nonlethal methods from stun grenades

:24:45. > :24:48.to Tasers to, there are guns that fire sticky fluid and form a net,

:24:49. > :24:53.all sorts of things are available for humans that you want to restrain

:24:54. > :24:57.without killing and I don't know if the zoo had or if in future they

:24:58. > :25:01.will plan to have such methods because every year we hear several

:25:02. > :25:07.instances around the world where zoo animals are killed to protect people

:25:08. > :25:14.and you think well, why are they not using nonlethal methods which can

:25:15. > :25:17.restrain the animal? I agree the zoo director saying a tranquilizer dart

:25:18. > :25:23.is a painful and alarming procedure that would have perhaps exacerbated

:25:24. > :25:28.the gorilla's stress, but that was the right call, but were other

:25:29. > :25:33.methods tried? I don't know. Let me bring in a professor of animal

:25:34. > :25:38.behaviour in Australia. Tell us broadly about the silver back

:25:39. > :25:44.gorilla and their temperament? Well, agree very much with the last

:25:45. > :25:51.speaker. The animal, there were no alternative methods attempted and

:25:52. > :25:54.one wonders and one hopes that an outcome of this tragic event now

:25:55. > :26:03.will be that strategies have to be in place. Now personally, I don't

:26:04. > :26:08.think gorillas or orang-utans or large animals should be in zoos,

:26:09. > :26:12.they should be in sanctuaries particularly if they are endangered

:26:13. > :26:18.species and they maybe shown on occasion so people have a way of

:26:19. > :26:22.interacting with them. That's a big debate and I think it is time we had

:26:23. > :26:26.such a debate again. The other question is what the strategies are?

:26:27. > :26:31.I understood that the staff were instructed if there are problems

:26:32. > :26:39.they have to shoot there and then. One has to remember that a gorilla

:26:40. > :26:46.is simply not a tiger or a lion where such immediate shooting

:26:47. > :26:50.response maybe necessary in many occasions because they are

:26:51. > :26:55.carnivores, but gorillas, are not carnivores, they are benign,

:26:56. > :27:00.thinking, feeling, judging species. They are capable of making

:27:01. > :27:05.assessment of risk and capable of making an assessment whether this

:27:06. > :27:11.boy was a risk to the group or to the silverback and it clearly wasn't

:27:12. > :27:17.and we have some evidence of that a situation like this can end very, in

:27:18. > :27:24.a very benign way as was the case in England and that changed our views

:27:25. > :27:33.and broke the imagery of the gorilla as a King Kong, as a fearful nasty,

:27:34. > :27:38.large, destructive beast. A gorilla is certainly not a beast. It is not

:27:39. > :27:43.necessarily aggressive. It may have been confused and certainly the

:27:44. > :27:52.screaming of the people would have not been very helpful, but in this

:27:53. > :27:57.case of the boy who fell into an enclosure in I think it was

:27:58. > :28:02.Jersey... It was Jersey, yes, in England in 1986, it was a crucial

:28:03. > :28:05.event for the world and for the perception of primates, because it

:28:06. > :28:15.was clear there was a gorilla that had stepped in and had saved that

:28:16. > :28:21.boy from drowning. The whole thing ran its course, but there is a very

:28:22. > :28:26.important difference. Apparently this boy has gone on to the internet

:28:27. > :28:32.debate to say he remembers it was all rather calm. Now if the

:28:33. > :28:37.situation is calm also the gorilla, the silverback, the silverback can

:28:38. > :28:42.think, but that wasn't the case in Cincinnati Zoo. People were

:28:43. > :28:46.screaming and certainly not helping the situation. So 30 years on, we

:28:47. > :28:51.have a very different context. Sorry, Ian, you're trying to come

:28:52. > :28:56.back in there, go ahead. Oh, there is a third instance of a child

:28:57. > :29:02.falling into a gorilla enclosure 20 years ago in Chicago. There famously

:29:03. > :29:06.a female gorilla picked up the injured child and carried the child

:29:07. > :29:10.to the hatch where the keepers were able to retrieve it. So out of three

:29:11. > :29:15.ins stances were children have fallen into gor ril will enclosures,

:29:16. > :29:23.in two of them nobody died and in this one, someone did. I think the

:29:24. > :29:27.child was unconscious. That may have been the difference. As far as I

:29:28. > :29:31.could see from the video, there was no aggression from the child and

:29:32. > :29:38.most of the time I don't think it even cried. Even your reports

:29:39. > :29:43.suggested you know this dangerous large beast, frankly, a silverback

:29:44. > :29:48.is much too thoughtful to be dangerous, it can be dangerous, but

:29:49. > :29:52.that serves a purpose to defend the group. There was no need to defend

:29:53. > :29:56.the group. Do you accept, had the boy been injured, had the boy been

:29:57. > :30:00.killed, then everybody would have been saying, "Why didn't you shoot

:30:01. > :30:08.the gorilla dead?" Absolutely. What the two guests said is spot on. We

:30:09. > :30:11.all care about gorillas. We care about gorillas and we know they have

:30:12. > :30:15.this wonderful nature and this ability to care and feel and love

:30:16. > :30:20.and cry. They are family animalsment we are not prey for them. They are

:30:21. > :30:26.herbivorous and we know that, thinking about it from the zoo's

:30:27. > :30:29.point of view, this is a $1 million facility putting animals in the

:30:30. > :30:33.public arena for entertainment. First of all, how could a child fall

:30:34. > :30:39.into that enclosure? There are clearly questions to answer there.

:30:40. > :30:44.There was a gap for a child to crawl through? A wriggly four-year-old, we

:30:45. > :30:49.know they will go anywhere. How can that happen? There are questions

:30:50. > :30:56.whether gorillas should be used for entertainment. In a $1 million

:30:57. > :31:03.situation could the zoo afford to risk that child's life? It is just

:31:04. > :31:11.tragic. Thank you very much. Ian, thank you for your time. And

:31:12. > :31:15.professor, thank you for your time as well. There is only one story

:31:16. > :31:20.that you want to talk about today and it is from Debbie on Facebook

:31:21. > :31:30.says, "A combination of unfortunate events. The zoo had no choice." Ken

:31:31. > :31:37.on Facebook, "100%, they should have kill the ape." Clare on Facebook

:31:38. > :31:39.says, "I wonder what the reaction would have been if the gorilla

:31:40. > :32:01.killed the little boy." David e-mails: the zoo should have

:32:02. > :32:08.moved him away from the child, they should have had a system to stop

:32:09. > :32:11.them from falling into the pit. Sue said I am really angry because the

:32:12. > :32:20.parents were negligent. Still to come: 2.5 million people

:32:21. > :32:23.are living with cancer in the UK. We'll be previewing a new BBC

:32:24. > :32:26.documentary series called The Big C Me which follows the lives of nine

:32:27. > :32:29.people with cancer over a year. And we'll get the latest

:32:30. > :32:31.on the Brain family we spoke to last week -

:32:32. > :32:34.Australians who were encouraged to come to the Highlands

:32:35. > :32:41.to work and are now They have been told that they can

:32:42. > :32:45.stay here, but only until August and they will not be allowed to work.

:32:46. > :32:50.Here's Maxine in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of todays news.

:32:51. > :32:53.Here's Maxine in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:32:54. > :32:55.Iraqi military special forces are leading a battle

:32:56. > :32:57.to recapture the city of Falluja from the so-called

:32:58. > :33:08.It was seized by IS more than two years ago.

:33:09. > :33:10.Commanders say they've met fierce opposition, including snipers

:33:11. > :33:14.It's believed there are 50,000 people still trapped

:33:15. > :33:17.in the city and IS is widely accused of using them as human shields.

:33:18. > :33:19.There's a warning that three-quarters of older children

:33:20. > :33:22.with Type 1 diabetes are not receiving key checks to keep

:33:23. > :33:25.The figures come from an audit of their care

:33:26. > :33:28.Health officials recommend all children with diabetes

:33:29. > :33:31.have their blood sugar levels checked, and those aged 12 and over

:33:32. > :33:33.should have six other check-ups every year.

:33:34. > :33:37.An inquiry into historical child sex abuse in Northern Ireland is due

:33:38. > :33:39.to begin examining allegations relating to the Kincora

:33:40. > :33:45.Three senior care staff there were jailed in 1981 for abuse.

:33:46. > :33:47.The inquiry, led by a retired senior High court judge, is expected

:33:48. > :33:51.to look at claims of links to the intelligence services.

:33:52. > :33:55.It's already examined allegations relating

:33:56. > :34:02.Both MI5 and MI6 have agreed to take part.

:34:03. > :34:04.The director of a zoo in the United States has defended

:34:05. > :34:08.the shooting dead of a silverback gorilla, after a four year old boy

:34:09. > :34:11.There have been protests at Cincinatti Zoo,

:34:12. > :34:14.but staff there insist that critics are not in a position to make

:34:15. > :34:29.Jillian Miller told us that zoo keepers would not have shot the

:34:30. > :34:33.gorilla unless they felt it was absolutely necessary. We were not

:34:34. > :34:38.there, we have looked at the footage. I out on the side that the

:34:39. > :34:43.gorilla may have been protecting the child, but they must be heartbroken.

:34:44. > :34:47.Thank goodness the boy is all right, but the keeper was so close to the

:34:48. > :34:49.gorilla, all those people would have loved the gorilla. They must be

:34:50. > :34:52.heartbroken today. An Australian family at risk

:34:53. > :34:55.of being deported from the UK have been told they can stay

:34:56. > :34:58.until August, but will not be Kathryn Brain, her husband

:34:59. > :35:03.Gregg and son Lachlan moved to Dingwall in the Highlands

:35:04. > :35:06.in 2011 on a student visa, The family had thought

:35:07. > :35:10.they were at risk of being They'll be speaking

:35:11. > :35:14.to Victoria after 10. Ceremonies will be held

:35:15. > :35:16.in Orkney and at sea today, to mark 100 years since Britain

:35:17. > :35:19.and Germany fought the naval Battle of Jutland in which more than 8,000

:35:20. > :35:23.sailors lost their lives. British and German warships

:35:24. > :35:26.will scatter symbols of remembrance on the waters of the Jutland Bank,

:35:27. > :35:29.above the wrecks of ships The Duke of Edinburgh was due

:35:30. > :35:33.to attend but withdrew, That's a summary of the latest BBC

:35:34. > :35:54.News - more at 10.00. A historic day at the cricket. Not

:35:55. > :36:00.so much for England's nine wicket win in the second test against Sri

:36:01. > :36:04.Lanka, but Alastair Cook brought up his 10,000 test runs. At 31 he is

:36:05. > :36:09.the youngest England player to reach that milestone and only 11 other

:36:10. > :36:13.players have achieved it will stop Roy Hodgson will name his England

:36:14. > :36:18.squad later today, he needs to trim two players from his current squad

:36:19. > :36:23.of 25. Daniel Sturridge may be one of those to miss out. The big

:36:24. > :36:26.question over the Wales squad announcement is whether Crystal

:36:27. > :36:30.Palace's Joe Ledley will be included. He fractured his leg

:36:31. > :36:35.earlier this month, but he could still be fit for the final group

:36:36. > :36:41.match and Andy Murray is juju phase Richard Gasquet for a place in the

:36:42. > :36:44.semifinals. That is if the rain stops. -- is due to face Richard

:36:45. > :36:46.Gasquet. Next - the Battle of Jutland -

:36:47. > :36:51.the biggest naval engagement of the first world war -

:36:52. > :36:57.which saw more than 8,500 killed off will be marked by a

:36:58. > :37:01.commemorative service today. Princess Anne will be there -

:37:02. > :37:04.but Prince Phillip won't be - We'll talk to relatives of those

:37:05. > :37:07.who took part in the battle shortly - but first -

:37:08. > :37:25.let's go through the events Germany could have won the war

:37:26. > :37:30.through this. As well as being the only major naval battle of the First

:37:31. > :37:35.World War which took place between 1914 and 1918, it became the largest

:37:36. > :37:42.battle in naval warfare history with 250 ships involved, 151 from Britain

:37:43. > :37:45.and 99 from Germany. It may have only lasted 36 hours, but there was

:37:46. > :37:59.a high level of casualties, more than one in ten wounded. Elizabeth

:38:00. > :38:06.Dixon's father survived the battle, but her uncle Archie just 16 at the

:38:07. > :38:14.time was killed. I think it is very important to commemorate because

:38:15. > :38:21.always the tradition of commemoration and the rituals of

:38:22. > :38:28.commemoration are important, because they are healing. Despite the cost

:38:29. > :38:34.in human terms, both sides claimed victory as the Germans lost 11 ships

:38:35. > :38:38.and the enemy 14. But naval fleet was seriously weekend and was not

:38:39. > :38:42.able to challenge the British seriously during the conflict.

:38:43. > :38:46.Britain retained the larger navy of the two sides and insured it could

:38:47. > :38:51.send troops and supplies to Europe until the end of the war. Let's

:38:52. > :38:55.speak now to Pat Avery whose grandfather Basil Phillips survived

:38:56. > :39:04.the battle of Jutland and to James Loudon whose grandfather commanded

:39:05. > :39:08.the grand Fleet at the battle. Both join us from the Isle of Orkney

:39:09. > :39:13.where a special service is being held to remember all those who lost

:39:14. > :39:20.their lives. It is where the British fleet set off from. Thank you for

:39:21. > :39:29.talking to us. Pat Avery, tell us why it was so important you to be at

:39:30. > :39:35.the service today? For me and for my family it was a tremendous honour

:39:36. > :39:39.and privilege to be invited here by the government and the people of

:39:40. > :39:47.Orkney to pay tribute to these officers and men of the Royal Navy.

:39:48. > :39:56.On a personal level, my grandfather Basil Phillips worked on one of the

:39:57. > :40:02.destroyers of the small ship navy, but also his colleagues, the

:40:03. > :40:10.officers, the captain, and the rest of the men on the ship, all of the

:40:11. > :40:21.offices of the Royal Navy who made huge contributions to this

:40:22. > :40:24.extraordinary battle. Your grandfather was the best-known naval

:40:25. > :40:28.commander of World War I, tell us what you are thinking as you mark

:40:29. > :40:36.this occasion to remember what he did. I am very pleased to be here

:40:37. > :40:40.and I very much echoed Pat's thoughts and I would like to feel

:40:41. > :40:45.that today will commemorate sailors of all ranks who fought not just in

:40:46. > :40:49.Jutland, but there were some other engagements, I don't think we should

:40:50. > :40:53.forget the Germans who lost their lives and this service is very much

:40:54. > :41:01.a mutual commemoration for both British and German sailors. I am

:41:02. > :41:07.certainly very proud to be here, I know a certain amount about the role

:41:08. > :41:11.my grandfather played in the battle. He was appointed the commander of

:41:12. > :41:16.the fleet the day war broke out in 1914 and it was a position that

:41:17. > :41:21.Winston Churchill said he was the man on either side who could lose

:41:22. > :41:26.the war in an afternoon. Tell us about the significance of the roll

:41:27. > :41:29.your grandfather played. I think that is right and Winston

:41:30. > :41:35.Churchill's remark has been repeated very many times, we did have control

:41:36. > :41:39.of the high seas, the Royal Navy had control of the high seas and its

:41:40. > :41:45.main objective of course was to keep control of the high seas. If we had

:41:46. > :41:50.lost it, the war would have taken a very different course. Although one

:41:51. > :41:54.can argue that the battle itself was somewhat indecisive, what was quite

:41:55. > :42:00.decisive was we could retain control of the high seas and the German high

:42:01. > :42:05.Seas Fleet never really came out properly enforce out port again. We

:42:06. > :42:10.were able to maintain the blockade of Germany which eventually did lead

:42:11. > :42:16.to our winning the war. Pat, your grandfather Basil survived the

:42:17. > :42:20.battle of Jutland. When he was on board that ship, he was writing

:42:21. > :42:24.diaries which I think he was not supposed to do. How did he do it and

:42:25. > :42:34.what were some of the things he wrote about? He had been trained in

:42:35. > :42:41.Morse code. He basically was receiving and sending the messages

:42:42. > :42:44.from ship to ship, there was a requirement that he had a full

:42:45. > :42:50.understanding of this method of communication. He used to keep the

:42:51. > :42:59.pieces of paper that he had scribbled, the messages down on, and

:43:00. > :43:03.he kept this remarkable diary of not only of the battle of Jutland, but

:43:04. > :43:11.the entire period of the First World War. Fact is that his commanding

:43:12. > :43:17.officer had little understanding of Morse code, actually worked in his

:43:18. > :43:20.favour. -- the fact that his commanding officer had little

:43:21. > :43:25.understanding of Morse code, that actually worked in his favour. He

:43:26. > :43:33.sent a coded message to your grandmother to let her know that he

:43:34. > :43:42.was all right. He did. When there was a fierce night action with a

:43:43. > :43:48.re-treating German high Seas Fleet, they managed to get back to hear and

:43:49. > :43:55.in order to let my grandmother no that he was OK and survived, he had

:43:56. > :44:06.his photograph taken and to get around the quite strict censorship

:44:07. > :44:14.he signed it affectionately yours, Basil. That was his way of letting

:44:15. > :44:18.her know that he was OK. Why is it important that the experiences of

:44:19. > :44:29.both your grandfather 's are remembered and Marks and talked

:44:30. > :44:34.about? -- marked. I think the sometime the battle of Jutland was

:44:35. > :44:38.forgotten about mainly because it was indecisive as a battle in

:44:39. > :44:42.itself. But this commemoration today and other events that have been held

:44:43. > :44:47.about Jutland have brought it very much to the forefront of the public

:44:48. > :44:54.again. I would hope to think that that will remain the case. I would

:44:55. > :45:03.repeat that I would hate today to be regarded just as a commemoration of

:45:04. > :45:08.the British. I know at the same time as this ceremony, the ships of both

:45:09. > :45:12.navies are meeting on the Jutland bank together. It is a mutual

:45:13. > :45:26.commemoration for both fleets and both sets of savers. -- sailors.

:45:27. > :45:38.Thank you very much, gentlemen, thank you.

:45:39. > :45:39.You can watch full coverage on BBC One from 10.45am and throughout the

:45:40. > :45:43.day on the BBC News Channel. Have you decided how

:45:44. > :45:45.you're going to vote Well, you are very welcome to take

:45:46. > :45:50.part in the second of our big TV On 6th June, we're in Manchester

:45:51. > :45:53.just over a fortnight It's open to everyone and will take

:45:54. > :45:57.place in our normal airtime If you want to take part

:45:58. > :46:01.and can get to Manchester from wherever you are in the UK,

:46:02. > :46:03.do e-mail: victoria@bbc.co.uk to have your chance to quiz senior

:46:04. > :46:24.politicians from the leave That's next Monday.

:46:25. > :46:27.A Labour MP says she received thousands of vile messages talking

:46:28. > :46:32.about raping her. What more needs to be done to tackle online abuse?

:46:33. > :46:35.There are 2.5 million of us and the number is growing

:46:36. > :46:38.That's how many people in Britain are living with cancer.

:46:39. > :46:40.A new BBC documentary series which begins tomorrow night called

:46:41. > :46:43.The Big C Me follows the lives of nine people across

:46:44. > :46:47.Filmed over a year, the programme films them from the moment

:46:48. > :46:51.of diagnosis, through treatment and life at home.

:46:52. > :46:55.It's really moving and also uplifting.

:46:56. > :47:00.There's Dominic from Leeds who has breast cancer.

:47:01. > :47:02.Steve, the painter and decorator, who has prostate cancer.

:47:03. > :47:06.Then there's Yvette whose belly dancing is integral

:47:07. > :47:11.to her managing her cancer that she's had for 20 years.

:47:12. > :47:27.And I think that's the thing that, actually, you can be living

:47:28. > :47:29.with cancer and actually be fit and healthy and well

:47:30. > :47:40.But living with her cancer has meant years of treatment, including

:47:41. > :47:47.The treatment I've been through, the medical procedures,

:47:48. > :47:50.has been a real assault on my self-confidence and self-esteem.

:47:51. > :47:53.For me, my way of switching off and actually being able to just

:47:54. > :48:05.It's been just, like, a life-saver, really.

:48:06. > :48:16.Also featured in the programme is Katy, a year after being

:48:17. > :48:18.the all-clear after having a malignant melanoma -

:48:19. > :48:22.She decided to take part in a new clinical trial to try

:48:23. > :48:25.and stop her cancer ever coming back, but there were risks involved,

:48:26. > :48:33.and it wasn't an easy decision to make.

:48:34. > :48:44.Two days after seeing her daughter marry, Katie is en route to London

:48:45. > :48:48.to start the trial. I can feel myself not getting bigger. The

:48:49. > :48:51.closer we get. It is just purely the fact you don't know how your body

:48:52. > :48:55.will react to something that's That is a trial. Cancer drug research has

:48:56. > :48:59.always moved forward on the back of human trials, but they are

:49:00. > :49:05.unpredictable and there is always an element of risk. For Katie, it is a

:49:06. > :49:11.leap in the dark. These drugs may save her, but they may prove

:49:12. > :49:18.debilitating and toxic. It is a horrible choice to face. Hi Katie.

:49:19. > :49:22.Hello, Emily. Nice to meet you both. How was the wedding? Oh, it was

:49:23. > :49:28.wonderful. You got the weather for it. Amazing. We were very blessed.

:49:29. > :49:33.I've got the consent form here. This is a trial. Yeah, quite. We are

:49:34. > :49:37.always here to answer questions and if you want to stop the trial, you

:49:38. > :49:44.can withdraw your consent at any point? The big stumbling blocks is

:49:45. > :49:48.the worry of actually having it. Obviously if things get too bad and

:49:49. > :49:52.the toxicity is too bad then I would, you would either say to me,

:49:53. > :49:58.enough is a enough and we'll come off trial. OK. OK? Yes, no problem.

:49:59. > :50:03.I think it is that fear of unknown, but once you start people tend to

:50:04. > :50:06.feel a lot more reassured. I'm sorry... It is not you, don't worry.

:50:07. > :50:12.It is the fear of the unknown. Yvette Cowles, 52 has had breast

:50:13. > :50:14.cancer for 20 years. She has had both breasts removed

:50:15. > :50:17.and Katy Garner was first diagnosed with melanoma six years ago,

:50:18. > :50:28.was given the all clear, Yvette how do you manage cancer over

:50:29. > :50:33.19, 20 years and it coming back three times? Well, I think I focus

:50:34. > :50:38.on the present. I'm really grateful for every day I am alive really. I

:50:39. > :50:43.do things that I enjoy and I do consider myself one of the lucky

:50:44. > :50:47.ones because I've got so many friends and family members and

:50:48. > :50:51.fellow dancers who haven't been so lucky who have lost their lives to

:50:52. > :50:56.cancer. So I'm still here and I focus on that. Sometimes does the

:50:57. > :51:00.uncertainty get to you? The fact thaw don't know what's going to

:51:01. > :51:06.happen? Yes, I think that's one of the most difficult things because

:51:07. > :51:10.you don't know what's around the corner, but then that's true of

:51:11. > :51:15.everybody. I think cancer certainly focuses the mind. But it is true

:51:16. > :51:21.that none of us knows what might happen tomorrow. Katie, how did you

:51:22. > :51:27.react when you had gone five years, you were in the sixth year after a

:51:28. > :51:32.malignant melanoma and you thought everything was fine and you found

:51:33. > :51:35.another lump in your groin? Well, it was devastating to find it and the

:51:36. > :51:37.first thought, no, it is not there. I can remember going to sleep that

:51:38. > :51:41.night and thinking when I wake up, it won't be there. But, of course,

:51:42. > :51:49.it was. I knew what it was because it just felt the same. So it's very

:51:50. > :51:54.hard to re-enter into that same scenario that had you in 2009 and we

:51:55. > :51:59.had, five years is the sort of, you know, you can have a big party at

:52:00. > :52:03.five years is what I was told. It was our 25th wedding anniversary, we

:52:04. > :52:09.decided to wait for the sixth year and have a celebration then and so

:52:10. > :52:16.it was quite hard to know that I had to go back and restart, but the

:52:17. > :52:20.difference was amazing because in 2009 Dr Larkin came to see me, he is

:52:21. > :52:25.the oncologist and said basically, you know, if this comes back, it is

:52:26. > :52:32.going to be life limiting. And this time, he came back and was talking

:52:33. > :52:35.about 60% reduction rates with these new drugs and the whole thing seemed

:52:36. > :52:38.very different. Which shows the rapid progress that is being made

:52:39. > :52:41.constantly year after year after year. This clinical trial that you

:52:42. > :52:48.have been involved in, you stopped after seven months, I think, what

:52:49. > :52:53.were the side effects? It is like taking the brakes of your immune

:52:54. > :52:56.system. The body starts to destroy your own healthy cells as well as

:52:57. > :53:02.your own cancer cells if you've got them. So I've had, am I load to say

:53:03. > :53:09.diarrhoea? Of course you are! I have had the effect of having what's

:53:10. > :53:14.called cold lie tis. My body has attacked my gut and given me

:53:15. > :53:20.diarrhoea. That's been the toxicity. I've lost my thyroid. That's

:53:21. > :53:28.manageable. But I'm still strewing alg little bit with the colitis. The

:53:29. > :53:34.documentary follows nine people you two included and various others and

:53:35. > :53:38.it is in parts very upsetting and in parts incredibly uplifting, but it

:53:39. > :53:44.feels to me that it is saying that, you know, no longer do we need to

:53:45. > :53:47.speak in hushed tones about cancer. Clearly, people have different

:53:48. > :53:51.diagnoses, clearly people deal with it in very different ways, but you

:53:52. > :53:56.can speak out loud about this and people don't have to necessarily

:53:57. > :54:02.speak to you in sombre tones as though you're about to die. No, I've

:54:03. > :54:06.noticed a huge difference since I was first diagnosed 20 years ago and

:54:07. > :54:09.even 25 years ago, my mother had breast cancer and her friends who

:54:10. > :54:13.are lovely people would cross the street rather than talk to her...

:54:14. > :54:18.Because they didn't know what to say? They were afraid of saying the

:54:19. > :54:22.wrong thing. There is so much support for different groups of

:54:23. > :54:26.cancer sufferers, you know, whether it is online forums, I belong to one

:54:27. > :54:30.called Flat Friends for women who have had mastectomies and have

:54:31. > :54:36.elected not to have reconstruction. Of the younger women because your

:54:37. > :54:41.challenges when you are younger and your concerns are different to when

:54:42. > :54:46.you are 30, or 40 or 50 or older and I think there is so much more

:54:47. > :54:51.information available. What should people, who say to you when you have

:54:52. > :54:56.cancer, what shouldn't people say to you... We were discussing this. One

:54:57. > :55:01.of the things we were saying the terrible thing they say, "Poor you."

:55:02. > :55:05.That's really helpful. I'm not poor. I'm not poor at all. I have

:55:06. > :55:09.something that I'm just trying to get on with. There is only one thing

:55:10. > :55:14.that's certain in our lives, that we will all die. Whether we die of

:55:15. > :55:18.cancer or whether we die because a bus hits you, you know, you don't

:55:19. > :55:21.know. Like Yvette was saying, the difference about having a cancer

:55:22. > :55:25.diagnosis it puts that diagnosis in your face a bit. You don't know

:55:26. > :55:31.whether the bus is going to hit you or when, but that's the difference,

:55:32. > :55:35.but I think yes, so saying something like "Poor you" Not being prepared

:55:36. > :55:39.to acknowledge that this is something that's going on in your

:55:40. > :55:43.life. Yeah, I think if somebody says, "I'm sorry, I really don't

:55:44. > :55:47.know what to say." That's fine. You're just acnobblinging that, but

:55:48. > :55:51.you get people who sometimes start talking about their friends or, you

:55:52. > :55:57.know, experiences and one woman said to me, "Well, this friend of mine, I

:55:58. > :56:02.mean she is dead now." She launched into this whole story... That's not

:56:03. > :56:05.going to help. Someone said to me last week, it was said in front of

:56:06. > :56:08.everybody, "Well, I think it is nature's way of controlling the

:56:09. > :56:14.population like AIDS and the black death." Wow. How is that helpful.

:56:15. > :56:17.Even if that's what you think, I think keep quiet. Thank you very

:56:18. > :56:20.much for coming on the programme. Very nice to meet you.

:56:21. > :56:23.The Big C Me is a three-part documentary series beginning

:56:24. > :56:34.So many of you getting in touch about the shooting dead of Harambe

:56:35. > :56:40.the gorilla in the States. Let me read your comments. Bear with me.

:56:41. > :56:43.This mouse is not very good. Lesley says, "That gorilla had the ability

:56:44. > :56:50.to tear the baby apart in a second. Had they not shot it and the gorilla

:56:51. > :56:54.killed the baby then there would be outrage that they had done nothing."

:56:55. > :56:59.If you a large dart fired into you, do you think that might annoy you?

:57:00. > :57:02.If this massive animal had fallen on the child while losing consciousness

:57:03. > :57:07.that could have killed the boy as well." James says, "It was hasty. It

:57:08. > :57:11.was unnecessary. The gorilla showed no intention of harming the boy."

:57:12. > :57:15.Another viewer says, "The instinct of the gorilla is to be a parent. It

:57:16. > :57:19.recognised the little boy wasn't a threat. I blame the parents and the

:57:20. > :57:24.zoo." Thank you for those. Keep them coming in, we will get more reaction

:57:25. > :57:29.from some of you before 11am. Keep your thoughts coming in. Right, time

:57:30. > :57:36.for the weather and here is Carol. Hello, how? Very well, thank you.

:57:37. > :57:39.You look very summery. A shame about the weather! Some places have a

:57:40. > :57:44.beautiful start to the day. I want to show you what's happening across

:57:45. > :57:47.Western Europe. In the hours between 8pm and 8am parts of Belgium and

:57:48. > :57:51.parts of the south-east of England and parts of Northern France had

:57:52. > :57:55.25,000 lightening strikes. That's a fair few. The French Open was

:57:56. > :57:59.abandoned yesterday and this caused some disruption to air transport,

:58:00. > :58:04.but this is the picture showing the 12 hours from 8pm last night. Now

:58:05. > :58:07.the red crosses denote the most recent thunderstorms and then they

:58:08. > :58:11.go back to yellow which are the last ones that we had. So what's been

:58:12. > :58:14.happening is, it is an area of low pressurement now, it is quite a

:58:15. > :58:18.potent area of low pressure. It caused a lot of problems across

:58:19. > :58:22.France, Germany, Poland for example, through the course of the weekend

:58:23. > :58:25.and it is brushing against our shores and that's produced the heavy

:58:26. > :58:30.rain and some of the thunderstorms that we have seen this morning. The

:58:31. > :58:33.area is unstable across the near Continent and with the higher

:58:34. > :58:36.temperatures the whole lot just goes up. We have had thunderstorms this

:58:37. > :58:43.morning and we've had torrential rain. In parts of Suffolk, which

:58:44. > :58:49.isn't what this picture is showing, we had over 40 millimetres in a few

:58:50. > :58:54.hours. That's an inch-and-a-half. It has been raining in Norfolk and

:58:55. > :59:00.Suffolk, look at this. Where is that? This is Cornwall. The west is

:59:01. > :59:05.gorgeous. Even the scenery by itself before you look at the weather is

:59:06. > :59:09.lovely! This is Cumbria, gorgeous as well and finally there, one is in

:59:10. > :59:15.Wales. Yes, it is so. So lovely. A real stark contrast. If you're in

:59:16. > :59:18.the west, you look lovely, but you would be appropriately dressed in

:59:19. > :59:24.the west as you are in the studio because it is not raining in here!

:59:25. > :59:29.Why did I start that? I don't know, Carol. How is it looking anyway? It

:59:30. > :59:32.is looking wet in the east. Torrential downpours. We have seen a

:59:33. > :59:39.lot of rain this morning in parts of the east. It could lead to hazardous

:59:40. > :59:43.conditions, a lot of spray around and big puddles and there is the

:59:44. > :59:47.risk of localised flooding. As well as all that rain, we've got strong

:59:48. > :59:52.winds. That combination is leading to a cold feel, if you haven't been

:59:53. > :59:55.out yet, expect that and the wind is strong enough, gusting to gale force

:59:56. > :59:59.off the coastline, as we drift west, we have got the bluer skies, through

:00:00. > :00:03.the day though, you will notice the cloud building in parts of the west

:00:04. > :00:06.and some of us will see rain. So this afternoon, we've got rain

:00:07. > :00:11.across Northern England and a lot of cloud and then we run into more rain

:00:12. > :00:14.across East Anglia and the South East. More rain as we head down

:00:15. > :00:19.towards the Isle of Wight. Where you see greens or yellows, that's

:00:20. > :00:23.denoting heavier bursts, but Cornwall, Devon, the Isles of

:00:24. > :00:27.Scilly, the cloud building through Somerset. For most of Wales,

:00:28. > :00:30.beautiful this afternoon, but east Wales, you will see cloud building.

:00:31. > :00:34.Northern Ireland, again, beautiful for you too. Highs up to 20 Celsius

:00:35. > :00:38.in Belfast and for most of Scotland, a beautiful afternoon. A bit more

:00:39. > :00:41.cloud at times across the north and the east, but not particularly

:00:42. > :00:44.spoiling it. As we head on through the evening and overnight, we

:00:45. > :00:49.continue with the rain. For a time, it will be particularly heavy from

:00:50. > :00:53.the Wash heading up towards Yorkshire, in through Northumberland

:00:54. > :00:58.and Durham. The rain getting over to east Wales and Somerset, but ahead

:00:59. > :01:02.of it in the west and the north, it will be largely dry. For some, there

:01:03. > :01:07.will be patchy mist and fog. Tomorrow, for England and Wales,

:01:08. > :01:11.cloudy, quite windy and cool with the rain. Quite a contrast in Wales

:01:12. > :01:15.and the south-west compared to today whereas for Scotland and Northern

:01:16. > :01:17.Ireland, we are in the sunshine away from the East Coast and highs of

:01:18. > :01:28.around 20 Celsius. I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:01:29. > :01:33.welcome to the programme There's been a massive backlash

:01:34. > :01:38.against the shooting dead of a gorilla in the US after a four

:01:39. > :01:42.year old crawled into his enclosure; a lot of you think there the zoo

:01:43. > :01:45.acted too hastily but plenty There's been a massive backlash

:01:46. > :01:49.against the shooting dead of a gorilla in the US after a four

:01:50. > :01:52.year old crawled into his enclosure. A lot of you think there the zoo

:01:53. > :01:55.acted too hastily but plenty Could that zoo afford

:01:56. > :01:59.to risk that child's life? Do I think the zoo should have

:02:00. > :02:02.tried other methods? We'll be speaking to a female MP

:02:03. > :02:10.who's campaign to stop sexist and racist abuse online has led

:02:11. > :02:13.to a barrage of abuse And - we'll talk again

:02:14. > :02:17.to the Australian family living in Scotland who are facing

:02:18. > :02:19.deportation from the UK. Overnight they've been told they can

:02:20. > :02:24.stay a bit longer, but not work. Good morning, here's

:02:25. > :02:39.a summary of todays news. The Iraqi military say special

:02:40. > :02:41.forces are leading a battle to recapture the city of Falluja

:02:42. > :02:43.from so-called It was seized by IS more

:02:44. > :02:52.than two years ago. Commanders say they've met fierce

:02:53. > :02:54.opposition, including snipers It's believed there

:02:55. > :03:01.are 50,000 people still There's a warning that

:03:02. > :03:04.three-quarters of older children with Type 1 diabetes are not

:03:05. > :03:06.receiving key checks to keep The figures come from

:03:07. > :03:10.an audit of their care Health officials recommend

:03:11. > :03:14.all children with diabetes have their blood sugar levels

:03:15. > :03:17.checked, and those aged 12 and over should have six other

:03:18. > :03:29.check-ups every year. All these health care checks are

:03:30. > :03:35.checking for the possibility of early markers of risk factors and if

:03:36. > :03:37.you find changes you can work with the family and the child to improve

:03:38. > :03:40.diabetes control. An inquiry into historical child sex

:03:41. > :03:43.abuse in Northern Ireland is due to begin examining allegations

:03:44. > :03:45.relating to the Kincora Three senior care staff

:03:46. > :03:48.there were jailed in 1981 for abuse. The inquiry, led by a retired senior

:03:49. > :03:51.High court judge, is expected to look at claims of links

:03:52. > :03:54.to the intelligence services. It's already examined

:03:55. > :03:55.allegations relating Both MI5 and MI6 have

:03:56. > :04:05.agreed to take part. Families of patients who were abused

:04:06. > :04:07.by staff at Winterbourne View private hospital say not enough

:04:08. > :04:10.is being done to improve services for adults

:04:11. > :04:12.with learning disabilities. They've written an open letter

:04:13. > :04:14.to David Cameron saying they're angry that changes

:04:15. > :04:22.in the system are too slow. The abuse was exposed by BBC

:04:23. > :04:24.Panorama five years ago. The group campaigning for Britain

:04:25. > :04:27.to leave the EU has said it would allow VAT on gas

:04:28. > :04:32.and electricity bills to be cut. The Remain campaign says

:04:33. > :04:38.that's the latest in more than a billion pounds in unfunded

:04:39. > :04:40.spending commitments - If you've got any questions

:04:41. > :04:49.on the EU Referendum, let us know. Chuka Umunna from Britain

:04:50. > :04:52.Stronger In Europe will be answering your questions

:04:53. > :04:56.at 12.30 and Chris Grayling from Vote Leave will do

:04:57. > :05:00.the same on BBC News at 5. You can get in touch via Twitter

:05:01. > :05:03.using the hashtag BBC Ask This An Australian family at risk

:05:04. > :05:28.of being deported from the UK have been told they can stay

:05:29. > :05:31.until August, but will not be Kathryn Brain, her husband

:05:32. > :05:34.Gregg and son Lachlan moved to Dingwall in the Highlands

:05:35. > :05:37.in 2011 on a student visa, The family had thought

:05:38. > :05:40.they were at risk of being They'll be speaking

:05:41. > :05:43.to Victoria after 10. The German car-maker, Volkswagen,

:05:44. > :05:45.has announced a huge The scandal over the rigging

:05:46. > :05:49.of diesel emissions tests has lead The director of a zoo

:05:50. > :05:56.in the United States has defended the shooting dead of a silverback

:05:57. > :05:59.gorilla, after a four year old boy There have been protests

:06:00. > :06:02.at Cincinatti Zoo, but staff there insist that critics

:06:03. > :06:10.are not in a position to make Looking back we would make the same

:06:11. > :06:15.decision, I know that after it is over and the child is safe, it is

:06:16. > :06:19.easy like the Monday morning quarterback to say while, don't we

:06:20. > :06:23.need to do this differently? But those people do not understand

:06:24. > :06:27.primate biology and the danger the child was in and also you were not

:06:28. > :06:31.there at an important time to make an important decision. We stand by

:06:32. > :06:39.our decision and we would make the same today.

:06:40. > :06:43.That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 10.30.

:06:44. > :06:54.James says, I cannot understand the reaction to the gorilla. This would

:06:55. > :07:00.be the reaction that anyone would have for a child in danger. What

:07:01. > :07:07.about a child in trauma due to people's negative reaction? Chris

:07:08. > :07:12.says I wonder what people would say if it was their child being dragged

:07:13. > :07:17.around by this gorilla. Liz says it was right to shoot the gorilla even

:07:18. > :07:19.if it was ultimately protecting the child. It's strength or weight could

:07:20. > :07:27.have crashed that the full boy. Do get in touch with us

:07:28. > :07:29.throughout the morning. Victoria Live and if you text,

:07:30. > :07:38.you will be charged Here is the sport. The deadline to

:07:39. > :07:44.submit international squads is midnight tonight. England and Wales

:07:45. > :07:49.will reveal all later today. Our reporter is with me this morning.

:07:50. > :07:55.Good morning, David. We are waiting with bated breath. We don't know

:07:56. > :07:59.when Roy Hodgson will reveal his 23. It has been slightly delayed. Is

:08:00. > :08:08.this all because of Daniel Sturridge and his various issues? Yes, he is

:08:09. > :08:12.the main concern. He missed the first friendly against Turkey in

:08:13. > :08:17.magister because of his involvement with Liverpool, he's scored, but he

:08:18. > :08:21.picked up a calf injury. He did not play against Australia and he did

:08:22. > :08:26.not feature on the bench on Friday in Sunderland. He did return on

:08:27. > :08:30.Friday, their respect and elation he could be included after all as part

:08:31. > :08:35.of five strikers which would include Marcus Rushford, the 18-year-old.

:08:36. > :08:40.This is Daniel Sturridge's final chance to impress. We are expecting

:08:41. > :08:48.the squad to be announced later this afternoon. There are questions over

:08:49. > :08:54.the likes of Andros Townsend, Danny Drinkwater. Will one of them have

:08:55. > :08:58.two miss out? We are hearing that John Stones is probably going to get

:08:59. > :09:04.the nod for his first match against Russia. That 26 man squad has come

:09:05. > :09:09.down to 25 with Fabian Delph being injured, but there are two more

:09:10. > :09:15.slots to go. They have the friendly against Portugal at Wembley on

:09:16. > :09:20.Thursday night. Wales, half past two, we will find out. It seems

:09:21. > :09:26.astonishing if Joe Ledley does make Chris Coleman's 23. He broke his leg

:09:27. > :09:30.three weeks ago. It is incredibly exciting for Wales, the first major

:09:31. > :09:34.tournament since 1958, the first time they have been at the European

:09:35. > :09:38.Championship finals. Joe Ledley fractured his leg on the 7th of May

:09:39. > :09:44.playing for Crystal Palace. He has joined up with the squad, because he

:09:45. > :09:50.has been a part of Wales's progress to the finals and a key part at

:09:51. > :09:55.that, but it would be an astonishing return to fitness. Can you really

:09:56. > :09:59.gamble with someone who is lacking such fitness. Roy Hodgson said he

:10:00. > :10:04.would not take anyone who is not match fit. Joe Ledley certainly is

:10:05. > :10:12.not, he missed the FA Cup final, but will he go to France? How about this

:10:13. > :10:16.for a seamless link? Wales's last major championship was 1958 knocked

:10:17. > :10:21.out by Brazil in the quarterfinals, Pele scored the winner and the

:10:22. > :10:24.Brazilian legend is selling all his football medals and memorabilia. The

:10:25. > :10:29.reason that the auction is slightly unclear, but it is expected to raise

:10:30. > :10:34.more than ?3 million, he is selling his three World Cup winner medals

:10:35. > :10:39.and a replica of a trophy and dozens of shirts he played in. He is even

:10:40. > :10:44.selling the boots he wore in the film escape to victory. They are

:10:45. > :10:48.expected to fetch about ?5,000. It is expected to take place over five

:10:49. > :11:07.days in London next month. So much stuff, Victoria.

:11:08. > :11:09.A Labour MP claims she's had over 1600 messages

:11:10. > :11:11.about raping her in the space of 36 hours.

:11:12. > :11:14.Last week Jess Phillips the MP for Yardley in Birmingham launched

:11:15. > :11:16.a campaign against sexism, abuse and intimidation online.

:11:17. > :11:18.But since that campaign the threats against her have

:11:19. > :11:37.Here are some examples of the kind of messages she's received.

:11:38. > :11:51.How do you react to those tweets? Unfortunately I have got used to it.

:11:52. > :11:56.They are idiots on the Internet and it is not even the content of some

:11:57. > :11:59.of the tweets. The level of discourse is that which I would

:12:00. > :12:10.judge in Ireland and-year-old for having. -- judge my 11-year-old for

:12:11. > :12:17.having. It is the sheer number of people who have got in touch with

:12:18. > :12:20.me, it is dog piling, basically any normal discourse that could happen

:12:21. > :12:27.on any social plaque home is completely crowded out. -- any

:12:28. > :12:32.social platform. It poisons the timeline of anyone who speaks to

:12:33. > :12:37.you. The number of tweets and the re-tweets and the people piling in,

:12:38. > :12:41.dog piling as you call it, there have been 5000 tweets pretty much

:12:42. > :12:46.referring to raping you or not raping you. The level of discourse

:12:47. > :12:53.is saying they do not want to rape me as if it is something you do to

:12:54. > :13:00.someone you like. Goodness knows where they have got it from. It is

:13:01. > :13:05.about 5000 people, 5000 notifications, mentions that I have

:13:06. > :13:10.got. The ones who are saying I would not rape you and the others that are

:13:11. > :13:16.saying this is not an insult, they would not rape you as if you should

:13:17. > :13:21.be grateful for that. I do not normally feel the need to tell

:13:22. > :13:26.people I will not my view or hit you, because we are normal human

:13:27. > :13:29.beings. It is as if I should be thankful that these people are

:13:30. > :13:34.saying they are not going to rape me. You described them as idiots and

:13:35. > :13:46.I have looked at the guidelines for what should be treated as a crime

:13:47. > :13:50.under current law. Communication is targeting an individual which may

:13:51. > :13:55.constitute harassment or stalking, communications which could be

:13:56. > :14:01.considered indecent, obscene or false. Have you contacted the

:14:02. > :14:07.police? I haven't. It all happened yesterday. While these people think

:14:08. > :14:11.I'm sitting around playing the victim, I was playing games with my

:14:12. > :14:16.children in the garden most of the day. I don't need to contact the

:14:17. > :14:19.police any more, my local police officers watch what happens on

:14:20. > :14:25.Twitter and they get in touch with me. I am sure they will. The vast

:14:26. > :14:29.majority of people who do this are in America, so there is very little

:14:30. > :14:34.West Midlands Police can do about it. I will be contacting Twitter

:14:35. > :14:39.about some of the ringleaders of this dog piling. I have got to the

:14:40. > :14:44.stage now that I feel that legal action be its civil or criminal in

:14:45. > :14:50.some way is the way to attack these people. Rather than just ignore it

:14:51. > :14:54.or mute them. Yes. I could never block them, you would need someone

:14:55. > :14:59.full-time to block the number of people who got in touch with me over

:15:00. > :15:04.the weekend. It is not a solution to block and ignore them. The only

:15:05. > :15:10.solution in stopping seeing it is if I stop going on twitter which is a

:15:11. > :15:14.very real possibility. I think the people who are the ringleaders of

:15:15. > :15:19.this, some action needs to be taken against them, but also there needs

:15:20. > :15:24.to be technology whereby I have blocked the person who started this

:15:25. > :15:29.years ago and anyone who mentions him in a tweets and mention me, I

:15:30. > :15:33.should not be able to see that and I don't want to see that. I think

:15:34. > :15:40.Twitter needs to do something about that. There are things you can do.

:15:41. > :15:48.You also wrote that Twitter is dead. As a platform, it is the worst area

:15:49. > :15:52.for this. Until twitter makes this sort of thing stop happening and

:15:53. > :15:57.stop accepting that this sort of dog piling and mass bullying can happen,

:15:58. > :16:02.their business model is totally flawed. People like me and people

:16:03. > :16:05.who do not like this terrible side of the Internet will just walk away,

:16:06. > :16:14.we will go to Facebook, mums net, other platforms where this does not

:16:15. > :16:15.happen. Twitter are already struggling and I don't see how it

:16:16. > :16:25.can last. I have seen some savage stuff on

:16:26. > :16:30.Facebook. There are some vicious stuff wherever you go. I think that

:16:31. > :16:34.Facebook though for a start if you're not allowed to be anonymous.

:16:35. > :16:38.There is the govern of it being an internal group of people. Facebook

:16:39. > :16:43.are massively funding counter speech where awful things are being said.

:16:44. > :16:47.If you look at models like Mumsnet or some of the other forums that,

:16:48. > :16:50.you know, maybe me and you can't name because we are not into this

:16:51. > :16:53.sort of thing, there are real community guidelines and anything

:16:54. > :16:56.like this starts to happen, those people are either gone or the

:16:57. > :17:03.community attacks them. Mumsnet is a really, really good example of where

:17:04. > :17:07.this stuff just doesn't happen. In the early days of Twitter, it was

:17:08. > :17:12.a really warm community. What has changed? Is it just because it has

:17:13. > :17:16.become so popular? The fact that it has become, these people sort of

:17:17. > :17:20.know that it is where you can really get at somebody. Also my husband was

:17:21. > :17:24.just saying to me beforehand and he is a proper geek, he is on all sorts

:17:25. > :17:29.of crazy forums that I've never heard of, he was saying to me the

:17:30. > :17:33.difference is people go to forums like Mumsnet to speak about

:17:34. > :17:37.something specific, he goes on computer game forums to speak about

:17:38. > :17:41.something specific, Twitter is your playground, it is the extension of

:17:42. > :17:44.every bit of your life. If you want to bully somebody, that's the place

:17:45. > :17:47.to do it. Not to do it in a place where you might be talking about

:17:48. > :17:55.your toddler having a tantrum. Do you think it is a woman thing? Is it

:17:56. > :18:00.mostly women being bullied or are men victims too? Oh men are victims

:18:01. > :18:04.too. Most of the research shows if you are anything outside of sort of

:18:05. > :18:12.white, mid--le class man, you are more likely so if you're black, if

:18:13. > :18:17.you're gay, if you're Jewish, if you're any sort of slight break from

:18:18. > :18:20.the norm about you means that you're more likely to get more attacks.

:18:21. > :18:23.Lots of people got in touch to say this person who start this on you,

:18:24. > :18:26.we have had action from him, but he will never hate me as much as he

:18:27. > :18:34.hates you because you're a woman. Thank you very much for talking to

:18:35. > :18:41.us. No problems. Yeses Phillips the MP for Yardley.

:18:42. > :18:47.-- jess Phillips the MP for Yardley. We reached out to Twitter

:18:48. > :18:50.for comment on Jess' case. The social media platform told us,

:18:51. > :18:53."We do not comment on individual cases for privacy and security

:18:54. > :18:55.reasons but there are multiple ways The organisation said, "We do not

:18:56. > :19:01.tolerate behaviour that crosses the line into abuse including

:19:02. > :19:03.behaviour that harasses, intimidates, or uses fear to silence

:19:04. > :19:16.another user's voice." So many comments about the gorilla.

:19:17. > :19:22.Let me get some. OK, this e-mail from Tim. He is in Hampshire. He

:19:23. > :19:28.says, "The outcry regarding the decision to shoot the dor ril la is

:19:29. > :19:31.truly amazing. Now senior zoo personnel are qualified zoologists

:19:32. > :19:40.who know the behavioural characteristics and characteristics

:19:41. > :19:46.capabilities of animals in their care. Of course, it was sad to lose

:19:47. > :19:54.such a beautiful animal which should not even be in captivity, but what

:19:55. > :19:59.would the public reaction had been if the gorilla killed the child?"

:20:00. > :20:01.An Australian family facing possible deportation from the UK today have

:20:02. > :20:04.now been told they can stay until August, but they won't

:20:05. > :20:10.Kathryn Brain her husband, Gregg, and son Lachlan moved

:20:11. > :20:12.to the Highlands in 2011 on a student visa,

:20:13. > :20:16.We spoke to them exclusively on this programme last week,

:20:17. > :20:19.since then they've both been offered jobs, which they can't take up

:20:20. > :20:37.Greg tell our audience what the situation is? The Immigration

:20:38. > :20:41.Minister Mr Brokenshire has given us approximately 60 days until the 1st

:20:42. > :20:48.August to get a visa application in. However, we have not been given the

:20:49. > :20:55.right-to-work. As you just said we have both got jobs offers. Kathryn

:20:56. > :21:04.has an offer from a community project. They were hoping Kathryn

:21:05. > :21:11.could start this morning. Kathryn has not been involve will have

:21:12. > :21:15.effects on not just herself, but for this distillery. The key about being

:21:16. > :21:20.able to work is that will help you raise money which will help in a

:21:21. > :21:24.further application for a new visa? Yes, well, that's the complication.

:21:25. > :21:28.Mr Brokenshire knows that we can't work. He is the Immigration

:21:29. > :21:33.Minister? He is the Immigration Minister. Ordered us to stop in mid-

:21:34. > :21:36.March, but we are likely to be faced with a visa requirement for what's

:21:37. > :21:44.called maintenance funds. Which means we have to have ?3,000 sitting

:21:45. > :21:49.untouched in an an account for 90 days prior to making an application.

:21:50. > :21:53.I doubt whether Mr Brokenshire would have any reason to believe

:21:54. > :22:00.otherwise, we have less than no money. We are being set-up to fail.

:22:01. > :22:04.Kathryn, what do you think? I'm echoing what Greg just said, you

:22:05. > :22:10.know, not just the funds having to be in the account for 90 days prior

:22:11. > :22:17.to making the application, but we have got 60 days between now and 1st

:22:18. > :22:20.August. Even if a wonderful person in the community are able to raise

:22:21. > :22:23.those funds so we could have it sitting in our account, we don't

:22:24. > :22:27.have the time to have that sitting in our account before making an

:22:28. > :22:31.application. So you know, as Greg said, it is almost like he is trying

:22:32. > :22:36.to appear generous by giving this extra time for us, but by the same

:22:37. > :22:41.token taking it away by putting this impossible request on us. As Greg

:22:42. > :22:46.also said with the job that I have been offered with the distillery and

:22:47. > :22:51.the job that Greg has been offered, although it may not qualify for a

:22:52. > :22:54.tier two work visa, it is a highly skilled job up here in the Highlands

:22:55. > :22:59.where his employer needs him on the ground as well. But the job that I

:23:00. > :23:05.have been offered is reliant on a deadline that we've got with raising

:23:06. > :23:09.the capital for the distillery and John McKenzie needs me on the ground

:23:10. > :23:13.as of today if possible, but without that right-to-work, I can't accept

:23:14. > :23:18.the job even if a temporary capacity or as we have discovered recently

:23:19. > :23:23.with another non-EU national who has been trying to organise an

:23:24. > :23:27.indefinite leave to remain, even if I was to volunteer my services that

:23:28. > :23:32.would be in breach. I can't even work for free! I doubt very much the

:23:33. > :23:35.Immigration Minister is watching our programme. His officials might be.

:23:36. > :23:39.What would you say to them directly? Well, if I can quote James

:23:40. > :23:44.Brokenshire's letter. One of the letters he wrote to us, he said that

:23:45. > :23:47.applicants should never assume the provisions in place at the time of

:23:48. > :23:52.their initial entry to the UK will continue to be viable options in

:23:53. > :23:56.future years. He seems to be saying that the UK Government's stated

:23:57. > :24:00.position is to be untrustworthy in their dealings with immigrants. We

:24:01. > :24:04.were promised a tier two work visa when we applied for our visa in 2010

:24:05. > :24:08.and when it was granted which was the year before the change to the

:24:09. > :24:13.visa regime was announced. At that point, we had to have some ?15,000

:24:14. > :24:23.or ?20,000 maintenance funds sitting in an account for 90 days. Again,

:24:24. > :24:28.all we're asking for is for the UK Government, this is a country which

:24:29. > :24:32.prides itself as being the birthplace of the rule of law, you

:24:33. > :24:39.would think dealing with the UK Government, you would be dealt with

:24:40. > :24:43.honourably and ethnically. Mr Brokenshire's quotes appears to

:24:44. > :24:52.suggest that's not an assumption to make. He has the opportunity to show

:24:53. > :24:58.that we can trust the UK Government. How is Lachlan? He is fortunate to

:24:59. > :25:02.have a seven-year-old's understanding of what is going on

:25:03. > :25:05.and that's shielding him a bit and for that, we're grateful He is going

:25:06. > :25:08.through a growth spurt at the moment hence the yawns!

:25:09. > :25:12.LAUGHTER His back is always hanging out of

:25:13. > :25:21.the fridge and he is always tired at the moment. Kathryn can you say hi

:25:22. > :25:27.to Lachlan And how he is. Darling, do you want to tell the TV people

:25:28. > :25:31.how you are and how you're getting on with regards to how you're

:25:32. > :25:35.feeling about mummy and daddy doing everything we can to stay here in

:25:36. > :25:40.Scotland? No. Sorry about that. Don't be daft. Fair enough. Thank

:25:41. > :25:45.you very much. We will, of course, keep in touch. We will bring our

:25:46. > :25:48.viewers any update in your story. We appreciate your time again, thank

:25:49. > :25:57.you. Thank you. Thank you. Lachlan Is exhausted. I don't blame

:25:58. > :26:11.her. Kathryn and Gregg Brain and Lachlan 6.

:26:12. > :26:16.The body of Elliot Johnson was found on railway tracks. The coroner

:26:17. > :26:19.refused a call by his family for a full inquest that could hear more

:26:20. > :26:23.detailed about the months leading up to his death. Saying the purpose is

:26:24. > :26:28.not to determine whether the allegations of bullying are true. We

:26:29. > :26:31.should say those allegations have been denied from within the

:26:32. > :26:35.Conservative Party. On this programme last year, we spoke to

:26:36. > :26:40.Elliot Johnson's father, Ray. He told us how the family were coping.

:26:41. > :26:45.It's very, very difficult for us. Elliot was a very bright, articulate

:26:46. > :26:49.young man. He a great future ahead of him. He went to London in June to

:26:50. > :26:52.start a new career and of course, that career was cut dreadfully

:26:53. > :26:57.short. Well, Ben Ando is at the Coroners'

:26:58. > :27:07.Court in Bedfordshire. Ben, what are we expecting today?

:27:08. > :27:12.Yes, well, I mean, Ray and Alice Johnson are here to observe the

:27:13. > :27:16.inquest. It started with the coroner being shown a photograph of

:27:17. > :27:20.21-year-old Elliot Johnson on the day of his graduation proudy wearing

:27:21. > :27:25.his robe and holding his scroll, but he did open the inquest by pointing

:27:26. > :27:29.out that this was about ascertaining purely the facts of the case, who

:27:30. > :27:34.the deceased was and how they came by his death and the coroner was at

:27:35. > :27:38.pains to point out that that term phrase "How they came by the death"

:27:39. > :27:42.Is specific in legal terms. He said it is beyond the scope of the

:27:43. > :27:46.inquiry to look at allegations of bullying within the Conservative

:27:47. > :27:50.Party, to look at questions of self-harming and previous suicides

:27:51. > :27:53.attempts by Mr Johnson, to look at possible relationship breakdowns or

:27:54. > :27:58.other factors. They would be considered, he said, but it wasn't

:27:59. > :28:01.for the inquest to apportion blame or look to find scapegoats or any

:28:02. > :28:07.kind of evidence that could be used later in criminal or civil

:28:08. > :28:14.proceedings. Thank you, Ben Ando outside the

:28:15. > :28:19.coroners' court in Hampshire. Some comments from people watching Jess

:28:20. > :28:24.Phillips the Labour MP earlier. Last week, she launched a campaign called

:28:25. > :28:28.Reclaim the Internet. On Sunday, into Monday, she had thousands and

:28:29. > :28:31.thousands of comments from people talking about raping her. Many of

:28:32. > :28:39.them incredibly abusive and horrible. David on Twitter says,

:28:40. > :28:46."Good point by Jess Phillips, they block out any civil conversation."

:28:47. > :28:52.Tim on Twitter says, "Great dignity from Jess Phillips." The only

:28:53. > :28:58.solution is to block or mute. Mark says, "A rape threat is illegal.

:28:59. > :29:02.Report it to the police. I don't see why Twitter should be blamed for the

:29:03. > :29:08.morans on there." Pete says, "On behalf of the 90% of the male race I

:29:09. > :29:16.apologise for the other 10% who sicken us all." Mohamed says,

:29:17. > :29:18."Twitter reluctancy to react. They rely on trolls to keep the

:29:19. > :29:36.engagement figures up." The latest from the city of Fallujah

:29:37. > :29:39.as Government forces launch a final assault against so-called Islamic

:29:40. > :29:46.State. We will bring you the very latest.

:29:47. > :29:54.With the News, here's Maxine in the BBC Newsroom.

:29:55. > :29:56.The Iraqi military say special forces are leading a battle

:29:57. > :29:58.to recapture the city of Falluja from so-called

:29:59. > :30:11.It says about 4,000 residents fled in the last week. Commanders say

:30:12. > :30:16.they have met fierce opposition including snipers and suicide

:30:17. > :30:17.bombers. It is believed there are 50,000 people still trapped in the

:30:18. > :30:25.city. There's a warning that

:30:26. > :30:26.three-quarters of older children with Type 1 diabetes are not

:30:27. > :30:29.receiving key checks to keep The figures come from

:30:30. > :30:35.an audit of their care Health officials recommend

:30:36. > :30:39.all children with diabetes have their blood sugar levels

:30:40. > :30:42.checked, and those aged 12 and over should have six other

:30:43. > :30:44.check-ups every year. Families of patients who were abused

:30:45. > :30:46.by staff at Winterbourne View private hospital say not enough

:30:47. > :30:49.is being done to improve services for adults

:30:50. > :30:50.with learning disabilities. They've written an open letter

:30:51. > :30:52.to David Cameron saying they're angry that changes

:30:53. > :30:55.in the system are too slow. The abuse was exposed by BBC

:30:56. > :30:57.Panorama five years ago. Steve Sollars, whose

:30:58. > :31:02.son Sam was held there, is among those who have

:31:03. > :31:13.signed the letter. There are still roundabout 3500

:31:14. > :31:19.people in these units and they are all at risk of abuse through

:31:20. > :31:26.medication, through restraint. Sam was one of them with the use of over

:31:27. > :31:31.medication and overuse of the restraints. It has to stop. The

:31:32. > :31:36.government have had five years to do something, they have not done

:31:37. > :31:38.anything. I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

:31:39. > :31:41.And Victoria will be speaking to a woman whose daughter was sent

:31:42. > :31:43.to a unit in Brighton and the charity Mencap

:31:44. > :31:46.who are calling for immediate changes to the way patients

:31:47. > :31:51.with learning difficulties are cared for.

:31:52. > :31:54.The group campaigning for Britain to leave the EU has said it

:31:55. > :31:57.would allow VAT on gas and electricity bills to be cut.

:31:58. > :31:59.The Remain campaign claims it's the latest in more

:32:00. > :32:01.than a billion pounds in unfunded spending commitments -

:32:02. > :32:13.If you've got any questions on the EU Referendum, let us know.

:32:14. > :32:17.Chuka Umunna from Britain Stronger In Europe

:32:18. > :32:22.will be answering your questions at 12.30 and Chris Grayling

:32:23. > :32:25.from Vote Leave will do the same on BBC News at 5.

:32:26. > :32:28.You can get in touch via Twitter using the hashtag BBC Ask This

:32:29. > :32:41.An Australian family at risk of being deported from the UK have

:32:42. > :32:44.been told they can stay until August, but will not be

:32:45. > :32:47.Kathryn Brain, her husband Gregg and son Lachlan

:32:48. > :32:50.moved to Dingwall in the Highlands in 2011 on a student visa,

:32:51. > :32:54.The family had thought they were at risk of being

:32:55. > :33:04.As things currently stand, Mr broken Shire has given us another 60 days

:33:05. > :33:10.to the 1st of August to get a Visa application. However, we have not

:33:11. > :33:15.been given the right to work. We both have job offers, Catherine has

:33:16. > :33:18.a job offer with a distillery, a community project, we were hoping

:33:19. > :33:20.she could start there this morning. An inquest into the death of a young

:33:21. > :33:23.Conservative activist, who made allegations of bullying

:33:24. > :33:27.in the party, is beginning today. The German car maker, Volkswagen,

:33:28. > :33:29.has announced a huge The scandal over the rigging

:33:30. > :33:32.of diesel emissions tests has lead to higher costs

:33:33. > :33:35.and falling sales. The director of a zoo

:33:36. > :33:37.in the United States has defended the shooting dead of a silverback

:33:38. > :33:40.gorilla, after a four year old boy There have been protests

:33:41. > :33:43.at Cincinatti Zoo, but staff there insist that critics

:33:44. > :33:58.are not in a position to make I know it is easy like a Monday

:33:59. > :34:03.morning quarterback to say wow, don't we need to do this

:34:04. > :34:07.differently? People who do that don't understand primate biology and

:34:08. > :34:10.the danger of the child was in and also you were not there at an

:34:11. > :34:14.important time to make an important decision. We stand by our decision.

:34:15. > :34:17.We would make the same today. Ceremonies will be held

:34:18. > :34:20.in Orkney and at sea today, to mark 100 years since Britain

:34:21. > :34:23.and Germany fought the naval Battle of Jutland in which more than 8,000

:34:24. > :34:26.sailors lost their lives. British and German warships

:34:27. > :34:28.will scatter symbols of remembrance on the waters of the Jutland Bank,

:34:29. > :34:31.above the wrecks of ships The Duke of Edinburgh was due

:34:32. > :34:55.to attend but withdrew, That is the end of your news

:34:56. > :34:59.summary. Now to the sport. Alastair Cook scored 10,000 test runs, at 31

:35:00. > :35:06.he is the youngest player to do that. They beat Sri Lanka to clinch

:35:07. > :35:09.the series. Roy Hodgson will name his final England squad for the

:35:10. > :35:14.European Championship later today, he needs to trim two players from

:35:15. > :35:19.his current squad of 25. Daniel Sturridge may be one of those to

:35:20. > :35:23.miss out. The big question over the Wales squad announcement at 230 this

:35:24. > :35:27.afternoon is whether or not Joe Ledley will be included. He

:35:28. > :35:32.fractured his leg earlier this month, but he could still be fit for

:35:33. > :35:34.the final group match. The Arsenal full-back has been called up to the

:35:35. > :35:54.Spain squad. He replaces. Andy Murray will be playing Richard

:35:55. > :36:01.Gasquet, but it is still raining in Paris. It looks like there will be a

:36:02. > :36:04.big log of matches. Families of victims of the Winterbourne view

:36:05. > :36:08.scandal have written to the Prime Minister is saying that he should

:36:09. > :36:19.shut outdated care institutions. After five years, not enough has

:36:20. > :36:26.changed. You may remember panorama showed residents being slapped,

:36:27. > :36:31.having their hair pulled and medication was forced into their

:36:32. > :36:35.mouths. After that programme, the government vowed to move patients

:36:36. > :36:39.with learning difficulties out of hospitals and into community care.

:36:40. > :36:50.Five years on the charity mencap says that is not happening. We have

:36:51. > :36:57.a spokesman from mencap and we have a mother whose daughter stays in a

:36:58. > :37:09.care home. George Julian is from a campaign group set up in memory of

:37:10. > :37:16.Conor sparrowhawk. Why is it not happening. They target was set in

:37:17. > :37:20.2014 to get people out of these units and back into the community,

:37:21. > :37:24.that has not happened, it has not happened because we have not seen

:37:25. > :37:27.the right infrastructure put in place locally. Councils and the NHS

:37:28. > :37:32.working together. We have not seen the right services developed in

:37:33. > :37:36.local communities are people with a learning disability can be supported

:37:37. > :37:41.in their community. Is it a lack of will, a lack of cash, a lack of

:37:42. > :37:45.planning? There is money in the system, but it is a lack of

:37:46. > :37:49.planning. The directives have come down from on high, but they have not

:37:50. > :37:55.been delivered locally. In some areas you see change, but in others

:37:56. > :38:01.you don't. Last October a report was published by the NHS saying of the

:38:02. > :38:05.next three years over 50% who are in the units will come back into the

:38:06. > :38:08.community over the next three years. That is welcome, plans are being

:38:09. > :38:11.developed at the moment, but families have been let down before,

:38:12. > :38:16.people with learning disabilities have been let down before. We need

:38:17. > :38:21.to see things being done differently and lessons learned from previous

:38:22. > :38:27.failure. Your daughter Claire has autism, she has had a year in the

:38:28. > :38:32.assessment and treatment unit, there is no abuse, but she is quite

:38:33. > :38:39.distressed and you would like her to move into supported accommodation.

:38:40. > :38:45.Yes, she was sent to the forensics unit and she has been home with us

:38:46. > :38:50.19 months. People are starting to listen and the plan is she has

:38:51. > :38:54.supported living accommodation. It is all about working together with

:38:55. > :38:59.families, listening to the young people, their voices, their dreams,

:39:00. > :39:08.their wishes. They are all human beings, there are so many people

:39:09. > :39:15.still locked up. Our daughter had been home 29 days the previous month

:39:16. > :39:20.and then on the 1st of August she was sent five hours away from us.

:39:21. > :39:26.She had been in the community doing no more things, but she had not been

:39:27. > :39:31.given a chance. Now she is home, we are lucky we have support in place

:39:32. > :39:37.now. Five and a half, six hours a day. She is living here with us,

:39:38. > :39:42.people are listening to her. Once the child turns 18, parents are

:39:43. > :39:48.normally just excluded completely. Why do you think in the final years

:39:49. > :39:53.since Winterbourne view, things have not got any better for people with

:39:54. > :39:57.learning disabilities? I am not sure there is the will. I think there is

:39:58. > :40:00.a conflict of interest between people who are working to charities

:40:01. > :40:06.and those who provide services and some who are not of a high enough

:40:07. > :40:14.quality themselves, including mencap who run unsafe services. We have

:40:15. > :40:19.known about these problems, they are systemic problems. There has been no

:40:20. > :40:28.action and three years ago when Conor died, there was a study that

:40:29. > :40:33.showed people were dying 20 years early, he was 18 years old, he

:40:34. > :40:38.should not have died, it was due to neglect. His family and friends have

:40:39. > :40:42.tried to improve things and get some answers. They talked to the chief

:40:43. > :40:48.executive of NHS England who commissioned a review into the trust

:40:49. > :40:53.Web Conor died. It found 337 learning disabled people died in

:40:54. > :41:07.that four year period and only two of the deaths were investigated. --

:41:08. > :41:12.where Conor died. Do you want to answer the point about unsafe

:41:13. > :41:17.services? We provide services and sometimes there are issues in our

:41:18. > :41:22.services. They are not unsafe. The care regulator has found issues in

:41:23. > :41:26.some of our services. It is right they are identified and it is our

:41:27. > :41:29.responsibility to put those right and we accept full responsibility

:41:30. > :41:33.for that. The reason why we are talking about Winterbourne view

:41:34. > :41:37.today, the families have said there has been no change over the past

:41:38. > :41:41.five years. Plans are being developed up and down the country to

:41:42. > :41:46.bring people out of these units and back into the community. Over the

:41:47. > :41:53.next few months it is absolutely key that those areas are listening to

:41:54. > :41:59.people with learning disabilities and families. You are shaking your

:42:00. > :42:03.head. We have been saying this for five years, mencap or 151

:42:04. > :42:08.organisations who put their name to the Winterbourne view Concorde to

:42:09. > :42:11.change this. It is not acceptable they are calling on the government

:42:12. > :42:16.to make changes that they have failed to make themselves. None of

:42:17. > :42:23.their provision is outstanding and one of their services is unsafe.

:42:24. > :42:26.Perhaps they should sort their own house out before they criticise

:42:27. > :42:30.others. Why are we having this conversation and not people with a

:42:31. > :42:36.learning disability. Mencap have not given the voice, not given the

:42:37. > :42:40.power, to people who are learning disabled to put their perspective

:42:41. > :42:45.across. We could not do that at 24 hours notice, they could have. We

:42:46. > :42:47.are holding the power in the system, we are not giving the opportunity to

:42:48. > :43:00.learning disabled people to speak for themselves. Go on. Talk to her.

:43:01. > :43:03.At the end of the day, families who had relatives at Winterbourne view

:43:04. > :43:07.wanted us to sign this letter to show there had been a lack of

:43:08. > :43:11.progress. I agree that we need to be at the forefront. We are bringing

:43:12. > :43:14.together a group of families to meet with NHS England to look at the

:43:15. > :43:18.plans being developed to make sure what will be bowling out across the

:43:19. > :43:23.country over the coming years is the right kind of support that people

:43:24. > :43:28.want. What have you done for the last five years? What has been

:43:29. > :43:32.happening? We signed the Concorde act to hold the government and NHS

:43:33. > :43:35.to account, that is why we are sitting here today having this

:43:36. > :43:41.conversation which is say there has not been the change that we want and

:43:42. > :43:45.to raise the profile. We will pause to say goodbye to viewers on BBC

:43:46. > :43:56.Two, the programme continues on the BBC News Channel. Do carry on, Dan.

:43:57. > :44:01.In your answer to George. We all want the same thing, we all want

:44:02. > :44:05.people to not go into assessment and treatment unit and we want to see

:44:06. > :44:08.the people who are in units supported to come back to their

:44:09. > :44:12.communities. We all agree on that and that is what we want to see in

:44:13. > :44:19.the future and what we need to work together on. The longer these people

:44:20. > :44:24.are away from their families, away from the communities, it gets harder

:44:25. > :44:29.for them. The stress, the families, they all had to cope with it. It is

:44:30. > :44:33.not easy to get them out of these places when doctors have them under

:44:34. > :44:38.section and families have two fight against it. This is what is

:44:39. > :44:45.happening all over the place. We will leave it there. I appreciate

:44:46. > :44:50.your time. Have you decided how you will vote in the EU referendum?

:44:51. > :44:56.Whether you have or haven't, you are welcome to take part on the 6th of

:44:57. > :45:00.June next Monday, we are in Manchester, just over a fortnight

:45:01. > :45:04.before the actual vote, it is open to everyone and it will take place

:45:05. > :45:08.between 9am and 11am. If you want to take part and you can get to

:45:09. > :45:13.Manchester from wherever you are in the UK, do e-mail us to have a

:45:14. > :45:15.chance to have your chance to quiz senior politicians from the Leave

:45:16. > :45:19.and Remain campaigns. In the last half hour,

:45:20. > :45:22.it has been reported from Iraq that the UN refugee agency has

:45:23. > :45:24.received several reports of people being used as human shields

:45:25. > :45:27.by the so-called Islamic State 50,000 people are feared trapped

:45:28. > :45:30.in the city which was captured by IS two years ago and is now

:45:31. > :45:34.the subject of a fierce final assault by Iraqi government forces

:45:35. > :45:39.as they try to retake it. There's growing alarm

:45:40. > :45:41.about conditions there, with reports of people starving

:45:42. > :45:43.to death and of being killed One women who was lucky enough

:45:44. > :45:50.to escape to a refugee camp to the south of the city,

:45:51. > :45:54.spoke to us of her ordeal. TRANSLATION: Thank God we were able

:45:55. > :45:58.to get away from suffering under They let us starve

:45:59. > :46:03.and left us thirsty. They took away our men and told us

:46:04. > :46:06.to go home saying they'll return, but they didn't send

:46:07. > :46:17.them back alive or dead. We can speak to Afzal Ashraf,

:46:18. > :46:19.a consultant fellow at Royal United Services Institute

:46:20. > :46:22.and was a senior officer And in Iraq is Becky Bakr Abulla

:46:23. > :46:36.from the Norwegian Refugee Council. Becky, tell us about the camp first

:46:37. > :46:42.of all. What things people are telling you when they arrive in the

:46:43. > :46:46.camp. Well, the camps are located approximately 30 kilometres away

:46:47. > :46:51.from Falluja town where the intense fighting is still ongoing. The

:46:52. > :46:54.families I've met are telling me about an extremely dire situation

:46:55. > :46:59.they have lived in for the past months. They have had no access to

:47:00. > :47:02.proper food, water, there has been no electricity or any medicines to

:47:03. > :47:11.get a hold of. They have been surviving on water from the river

:47:12. > :47:15.and dry dates. Some have managed to get hold of yoghurt they told me the

:47:16. > :47:18.escape from the intense fighting has been dangerous, they have been

:47:19. > :47:24.running for hours at night-time carrying only the clothes on their

:47:25. > :47:28.back and their ID cards. What do they say it is like inside fa fa?

:47:29. > :47:31.They have been telling me they have been afraid for their lives every

:47:32. > :47:35.minute of the day. They haven't been sleeping. They haven't been eating.

:47:36. > :47:40.They are staying indoors. Children are not going to school anymore. It

:47:41. > :47:47.has been extremely traumatic for them. Let me ask you. In terms of

:47:48. > :47:52.where Iraqi Government troops are in relation to Falluja can you describe

:47:53. > :47:55.that for our audience, please? Well, it is not entirely clear because

:47:56. > :47:58.they haven't given a clear indication of their positions, but

:47:59. > :48:03.it seems they have surrounded most of the city, not all of it, so that

:48:04. > :48:07.does allow the Daesh fighters to withdraw if they wish to which may

:48:08. > :48:10.not be a bad thing under the circumstances, if they withdraw it

:48:11. > :48:18.means that the civilians are not in danger. With dra from fa fa? Yes. If

:48:19. > :48:23.Iraqi Government troops are surrounding it? I'm not sure they

:48:24. > :48:32.have surrounded it difficult. It is difficult to surround fa fa.

:48:33. > :48:39.Fa fa the Falluja a regiment had to help the coalition which was

:48:40. > :48:45.American to surround the city. That was to defeat Al-Qaeda back then,

:48:46. > :48:49.wasn't it? It was the fore runners of Daesh who were Al-Qaeda in Iraq

:48:50. > :49:00.and who have more offed into Daesh. It was this group. IS have been in

:49:01. > :49:06.control of Falluja for two years, why is it crucial the Iraqi

:49:07. > :49:10.Government get them out here? First of all, there have been recent

:49:11. > :49:15.bombings. Yesterday there were several suicide bombings leading to

:49:16. > :49:20.the deaths of dozens of people. This has been going on for a few weeks. A

:49:21. > :49:24.few weeks ago we had the storming of the green zone because the

:49:25. > :49:31.protesters... That's the so-called safe area in Baghdad for Government

:49:32. > :49:34.officials, for important VIPs? The belief amongst ordinary Iraqis

:49:35. > :49:38.particularly in Baghdad the Government is ineffective, it is not

:49:39. > :49:46.providing for the basic needs of security, water, electricity and so

:49:47. > :49:51.on. All of this is being now championed by a politician to led

:49:52. > :50:00.the biggest insurgency against the Americans again in 2004 and it was

:50:01. > :50:03.only the intervention of ayatollah Sistani that stopped that. It would

:50:04. > :50:08.have been difficult for the coalition to keep him under control.

:50:09. > :50:12.He is on the scene. This is conspiring to make the Baghdad

:50:13. > :50:15.Government feel they must do something and Falluja is a

:50:16. > :50:18.convenient and easy location for them to demonstrate success.

:50:19. > :50:23.Briefly, some people have clearly escaped. Some citizens escaped from

:50:24. > :50:29.Falluja. What about those who cannot get out? What's going to happen to

:50:30. > :50:35.them? That's a good situation. The situation is dire. There is

:50:36. > :50:38.cross-fire, the Iraqi army will find it douf avoid casualties and with

:50:39. > :50:41.the militias involved and with the lack of training and maybe

:50:42. > :50:46.discipline as well, I think we should expect I am afraid some

:50:47. > :50:50.civilian casualties and it could be a very large number and of course,

:50:51. > :50:54.Daesh are killing people who are not supporting them and fighting for

:50:55. > :50:58.them. So I am afraid, as always in these cases, the civilians, the most

:50:59. > :51:05.vulnerable children, the elderly, the infirm, are the ones that are

:51:06. > :51:09.going to suffer. Becky back in Falluja. Are you agreement that

:51:10. > :51:18.there are going to be a large number of people who could be hurt or

:51:19. > :51:21.killed? Well, all the reports we are seeing indicate that the fighting

:51:22. > :51:24.will intense. So we are extremely concerned about the 50,000

:51:25. > :51:28.individuals that are still trapped inside Falluja. We have also, and I

:51:29. > :51:32.have been talking to families that managed to get out, tell us that

:51:33. > :51:37.Isis came to my house and threatened us and our lives if we had any plans

:51:38. > :51:43.of escaping. So no doubt, we are extremely concerned. How good is the

:51:44. > :51:47.Iraqi army? Well, it has not been very good so far. It is the reason

:51:48. > :51:51.why the country was overtaken by Daesh in a matter of three or four

:51:52. > :51:54.weeks or the large parts of the country and it has taken them two

:51:55. > :51:59.years with the American help in training, lots of equipment, and

:52:00. > :52:07.also with Iranian help as well to only be able to take on a few towns

:52:08. > :52:12.and cities and even here in Falluja they are being assisted by civilian

:52:13. > :52:19.militia. So it is not a very inspiring army and that, I think, is

:52:20. > :52:23.one of the longer term problems that the Baghdad Government has to force

:52:24. > :52:28.is that it doesn't have the capability of providing security

:52:29. > :52:32.across the nation and if it doesn't do that, it shouldn't be surprise

:52:33. > :52:34.iffed the Kurds and the Sunnis and others want independence because

:52:35. > :52:43.they're not getting what they would expect from a Government. Thank you

:52:44. > :52:44.very much. Thank you very much for your time.

:52:45. > :52:48.Thank you, I appreciate it. Let's return now to one

:52:49. > :52:50.of our main stories, and the one you've been getting

:52:51. > :52:53.in touch to talk about, were zookeepers right to shoot

:52:54. > :52:57.a gorilla when a four-year-old boy Overnight, one of the bosses

:52:58. > :53:02.of Cincinnati Zoo in America says he stands by the decision to shoot

:53:03. > :53:05.the gorilla called Harambe. Thayne Maynard says the gorilla had

:53:06. > :53:07.been agitated and disorientated Looking back we would

:53:08. > :53:15.make the same decision. I know that after it is over

:53:16. > :53:19.and the child is safe, it is easy like a Monday morning

:53:20. > :53:22.quarterback to look at it and say "Wow, wow, wow, don't we need

:53:23. > :53:25.to do this differently?" The people that the people that say

:53:26. > :53:28.that A, don't understand primate biology and silverback gorillas

:53:29. > :53:32.and the danger the child was in. And B, we're not there

:53:33. > :53:35.at an important time to make That said, we are very glad

:53:36. > :53:44.that the little boy is OK. That is one happy thing

:53:45. > :53:50.in a dangerous and bad story. Naturally, we did not take

:53:51. > :53:53.the shooting of Harambe lightly. And people who question that

:53:54. > :54:01.or are Monday morning quarterbacks or second-guessers don't understand

:54:02. > :54:04.that you can't take a risk They are three times

:54:05. > :54:17.bigger than a man and six I know you see photos

:54:18. > :54:21.and videos and you think gosh, We are talking about animal with one

:54:22. > :54:25.hand that I have seen take He had never had anything

:54:26. > :54:30.like that going on. And that also led to the decision,

:54:31. > :54:33.of course, not to dart the animal. In the real world you make difficult

:54:34. > :54:37.calls, but you have to make them in and the safety that

:54:38. > :55:00.child was paramount. Kyle is in ju Newcastle and Jan is

:55:01. > :55:05.in Surrey. What do you think? It is ridiculous from the zookeepers, the

:55:06. > :55:10.way they were saying that the child was in danger. I just think it is

:55:11. > :55:16.the parents fault. They should have kept an eye on the child. The

:55:17. > :55:24.gorilla was holding the child, protecting it, yeah, the gorilla got

:55:25. > :55:31.scared because of the crowd shouting and I'm just seeing the pictures

:55:32. > :55:38.now, Victoria. The gorilla is protecting the child and the reason

:55:39. > :55:43.for the zoo to refer their decision as a quarterback after a game on a

:55:44. > :55:47.Monday is ridiculous. The gorilla should not have been killed. It

:55:48. > :55:54.should have been tranquillized there and then. It took ten minutes before

:55:55. > :56:00.any decision was made. So for the zoo to do this is a bit ridiculous.

:56:01. > :56:06.Jan, what about you? I think by the time it comes to decisions about

:56:07. > :56:10.what to do with this gorilla, it is all too late. There are two innocent

:56:11. > :56:17.parties here and the innocent parties are a little child aged four

:56:18. > :56:20.and a beautiful animal in captivity and I feel there is lack of

:56:21. > :56:26.responsibility on so many parts here. Particularly who is caring for

:56:27. > :56:32.that child? What happened? Where were any keepers on the perimeter

:56:33. > :56:37.warning of dangers, where are signs? Where is the public helping? By the

:56:38. > :56:42.time the child has crawled in there, it presumably thinks it is going up

:56:43. > :56:48.a climbing frame in a park to see a beautiful cuddly animal and by the

:56:49. > :56:53.time it gets in there, it is panic stations and I think lack of

:56:54. > :56:59.responsibility for not ensuring the public are safe and that the child

:57:00. > :57:04.can't get into this enclosure in the first place and I'm very, very sad.

:57:05. > :57:09.I wish so much tranquilizers could have been used because surely in

:57:10. > :57:14.shoot ago beautiful gorilla it could have fallen on the child anyway.

:57:15. > :57:18.That's outside our knowledge, but I think, lack of responsibility on the

:57:19. > :57:22.part of the carers and the zoo for their safety procedures. Yes, I

:57:23. > :57:25.mean, Kyle would you agree there are still questions the zoo have to

:57:26. > :57:29.answer, not necessarily about the decision to shoot the animal, but

:57:30. > :57:35.how the child got through the fence into the enclosure? It is

:57:36. > :57:39.astonishing. Yeah, I complete agree. The safety features should have been

:57:40. > :57:46.there, but for the child to manage to get through that and fall into

:57:47. > :57:52.the enclosure is just dangerous. The zoo should take responsibility about

:57:53. > :57:56.that and the comment about the gorilla if it gets tranquillized

:57:57. > :58:01.that is a possibility, but there is no guarantee that it will fall on to

:58:02. > :58:06.the child. Thank you both very much. Kyle in Newcastle and Jan in Surrey,

:58:07. > :58:10.just two of our viewers out of so many of you who have got in touch on

:58:11. > :58:17.this story. Tomorrow, an exclusive interview

:58:18. > :58:21.with Willie Thorne about his gambling addiction. Jilly says,

:58:22. > :58:24."This incident with the gorilla would never have happened had the

:58:25. > :58:29.child's mother been watching her own child." Thank you four your

:58:30. > :58:35.comments. Back tomorrow at 9.15am. Have a good day.