The EU Debate

:02:18. > :02:20.Between now and 11 we'll be taking about the economy, jobs,

:02:21. > :02:23.immigration, national security, and the campaign itself

:02:24. > :02:26.and what kind of Britain you want to live in.

:02:27. > :02:31.But before all that Rebecca Jones has a summary of the news.

:02:32. > :02:33.Leading Brexit campaigners have claimed a vote to remain could mean

:02:34. > :02:37.Britain has to pay billions of pounds more

:02:38. > :02:43.The remain campaign says the figures are nonsense and claims the UK

:02:44. > :02:47.would have a veto on any proposed budget increase.

:02:48. > :02:49.We'll be back live in Manchester shortly

:02:50. > :02:52.to hear from voters and a panel of politicians from both

:02:53. > :02:58.Scientists in the United States have begun using a controversial

:02:59. > :03:02.technique to create human organs, by growing them inside pigs.

:03:03. > :03:05.Critics have expressed ethical concerns about the project,

:03:06. > :03:08.by a research team at the University of California, which involves

:03:09. > :03:13.injecting human stem cells into pig embryos.

:03:14. > :03:20.The aim is to produce a pancreas suitable for a human transplant.

:03:21. > :03:23.Our hope is that this pig embryo will develop normally,

:03:24. > :03:26.but the pancreas will be made almost exclusively out of human

:03:27. > :03:30.cells so that then, that pancreas can be compatible

:03:31. > :03:38.The body of Muhammad Ali has arrived in his hometown

:03:39. > :03:42.The boxing legend died at the weekend.

:03:43. > :03:45.His family accompanied the coffin as it was driven in a convoy

:03:46. > :03:51.His funeral will take place there on Friday, when former US

:03:52. > :03:57.President Bill Clinton will deliver a eulogy.

:03:58. > :04:00.At least three people have been killed and nine injured in a crash

:04:01. > :04:02.involving two trains in eastern Belgium.

:04:03. > :04:05.Some of the injured are critically hurt.

:04:06. > :04:08.The accident happened when a high speed passenger service crashed

:04:09. > :04:11.into the back of a goods train near the city of Liege

:04:12. > :04:18.An eyewitness said two carriages had been completely destroyed.

:04:19. > :04:20.A new study suggests that women who've had breast cancer

:04:21. > :04:24.could benefit from staying on hormone blocking drugs

:04:25. > :04:29.That's more than double the number of years they're

:04:30. > :04:36.The US study found that long term use of the drugs could cut the risk

:04:37. > :04:42.However there are also warnings about the drugs' side effects.

:04:43. > :04:44.It's all about balancing the risks and benefits.

:04:45. > :04:50.There was an increased risk of bone fractures in the study,

:04:51. > :04:55.so it's most likely appropriate for those women at highest

:04:56. > :04:58.Three people have died along the east coast of Australia

:04:59. > :05:02.Hundreds of homes were evacuated in New South Wales, Queensland

:05:03. > :05:07.More than twenty flood warnings are in place.

:05:08. > :05:10.In Sydney, beach front homes have been partly washed away

:05:11. > :05:16.by an unusually high tide and big waves.

:05:17. > :05:19.An award-winning American photo-journalist and his Afghan

:05:20. > :05:23.translator have been killed in a Taliban ambush

:05:24. > :05:29.David Gilkey, who was 50, worked for National Public Radio in the US.

:05:30. > :05:32.They died when the army convoy they were travelling

:05:33. > :05:43.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

:05:44. > :05:48.Andy Murray's first French Open final ended in defeat.

:05:49. > :05:51.He was beaten in four sets by World Number One Novak

:05:52. > :05:54.Djokovic, who claimed his first title in Paris.

:05:55. > :05:58.He becomes only the eighth player in the Open era to win all four

:05:59. > :06:04.Grand Slams and the first since Rod Laver in 1969 to hold them

:06:05. > :06:10.Wales ended their preparations for Euro

:06:11. > :06:12.2016 on an underwhelming note - they were beaten 3-0 in Sweden.

:06:13. > :06:13.Wales' first game at the Championship is against

:06:14. > :06:18.Jamie Vardy is expected to decide whether he'll join Arsenal

:06:19. > :06:19.from Leicester City later this morning.

:06:20. > :06:23.The decision is expected to be made before he flies out with the England

:06:24. > :06:27.squad to France for Euro 2016 at 11.30 this morning.

:06:28. > :06:29.Mo Farah broke the British 3,000 metre record at the Diamond League

:06:30. > :06:35.The double Olympic champion recorded a time of 7 minutes,

:06:36. > :06:37.32.62 seconds to break David Moorcroft's long standing

:06:38. > :06:50.Good morning and welcome to the programme.

:06:51. > :06:52.We're live in Manchester at the old Granada Television

:06:53. > :06:55.Studios, once home to Coronation Street,

:06:56. > :06:57.but today it'll be home to a debate on the future of the united kingdom

:06:58. > :07:05.and whether we should stay in or leave the European Union.

:07:06. > :07:08.With us this morning, 145 voters from right across the UK.

:07:09. > :07:15.Sitting over here 50 people who say they're going to vote leave,

:07:16. > :07:20.sitting here in the middle 45 people who say they don't yet know how

:07:21. > :07:22.they're going to vote, and sitting here 50 people who say

:07:23. > :07:24.they're going to vote to remain in the European Union.

:07:25. > :07:28.Also with us for Leave - Suella Fernandes, a Conservative MP,

:07:29. > :07:35.and Jane Collins, a UKIP MEP, they want the UK to leave

:07:36. > :07:49.And for Remain Sal Brinton, President of the Liberal Democrats

:07:50. > :07:53.and Geeta Sidhu-Robb who's a business woman who runs

:07:54. > :07:59.She's also a member of the "women in" campaign, they want the UK

:08:00. > :08:10.So later in the programme we'll talk about the impact on jobs,

:08:11. > :08:12.the economy, immigration and national security,

:08:13. > :08:17.but first of all let's start by hearing from some of you.

:08:18. > :08:35.Good morning. I can't climb Francis, originally from London, a student,

:08:36. > :08:39.part-time low skilled worker and the main reason I am voting to leave is

:08:40. > :08:47.because first of all Britain needs its own sovereignty. And the effect

:08:48. > :08:55.that being in the EU has had on low skilled workers, which the Remain

:08:56. > :09:01.Campaign do not seem to be able to grasp fully. And by that you mean

:09:02. > :09:06.competition for jobs? Low wages, competition for jobs, people needing

:09:07. > :09:11.to apply for 500 jobs before they can get one. That is not the Britain

:09:12. > :09:19.I grew up in. That is not the Britain I want to be a part of. We

:09:20. > :09:23.need to stop being so scared of these tactics. We are better than

:09:24. > :09:29.that, we are smarter than that. We know these people are waffling, we

:09:30. > :09:35.know the deal, we get it. You want to maintain the status quo, but the

:09:36. > :09:39.simple fact is everybody needs to be factored into this decision. They

:09:40. > :09:49.should not be about businesses, it needs to be about people. Clem, stay

:09:50. > :09:55.there. The gentleman over here. My name is Jimmy and I am originally

:09:56. > :10:00.from Lincolnshire and I am a comedian and a musician. I am voting

:10:01. > :10:04.to remain because there is more to Britain and the argument let's make

:10:05. > :10:08.Britain great again because we could make Britain for the future which is

:10:09. > :10:14.more culturally diverse and interesting. I am not an economist,

:10:15. > :10:18.I just hear a lot of talk about money all the time and I cannot say

:10:19. > :10:26.whether the economy will be better or worse. Exactly. I am not going to

:10:27. > :10:30.say if we remain it will be better, but I like being part of the bigger

:10:31. > :10:34.picture. I like the fact that the UK could remain part of this big thing

:10:35. > :10:39.that is Europe and I think instead of making the Great Britain we could

:10:40. > :10:49.make a great Europe. Reality check, my friend. Britain is already

:10:50. > :10:54.multicultural. It is multicultural and has been for the best part of 70

:10:55. > :11:02.years or more. It has already happened. That is different from

:11:03. > :11:09.having people coming from outside and undercutting our low skilled

:11:10. > :11:15.workers, OK? It is not about we want to be inclusive. Forget

:11:16. > :11:19.inclusiveness. What about British people? What about the low skilled

:11:20. > :11:23.people who are not being protected? What about the people who have not

:11:24. > :11:31.got an academic background, who are not innovators? Who looks after

:11:32. > :11:37.them? Excuse me, what are you talking about? This country has not

:11:38. > :11:41.protected their workers at all since the 80s and it is only because of

:11:42. > :11:46.Europe that we have any kind of protection. This is the only country

:11:47. > :11:52.in the world that has zero hours contracts. Fair enough, but the

:11:53. > :11:58.bottom line is we cannot have a situation whereby British people are

:11:59. > :12:09.coming second. It makes no sense. Britain cannot be controlled by

:12:10. > :12:17.Belgium, OK? Hang on. Take the seat. I would not leave workers' rights to

:12:18. > :12:22.this Tory Government. Without Europe you would not have maternity rights,

:12:23. > :12:28.the social chapter, the working Time directive. Don't forget, immigration

:12:29. > :12:35.from outside the EU is more than what it is from inside the EU. It is

:12:36. > :12:39.not because of the EU. Let's hear from that and decided. Does that

:12:40. > :12:44.kind of conversation overwhelm you or help you? What would you say? I

:12:45. > :12:49.have heard both sides and to be honest personally for me neither one

:12:50. > :12:56.side helps. I am a small business owner from Sheffield, but I am also

:12:57. > :13:04.a youth worker. My youth worker 's side and a lot of the third sector

:13:05. > :13:09.is offered money from the EU. If we leave the EU, while our Government

:13:10. > :13:16.continue to support the homeless? What do you think? Probably not. It

:13:17. > :13:25.means more unemployment and the most vulnerable in our society I left

:13:26. > :13:31.short yet again. How important do you feel this decision is? For me

:13:32. > :13:35.personally it is huge. For my business I would prefer to leave

:13:36. > :13:40.because we might lose some of the red tape which we are held back by,

:13:41. > :13:45.but for my job I preferred to remain. I have also got three small

:13:46. > :13:52.children to consider as well. We have just got over two weeks to go,

:13:53. > :13:57.how will you reach a conclusion? Hopefully after today a miracle will

:13:58. > :14:01.happen and somebody will give me some answers. America has never

:14:02. > :14:07.happened on our programme! You might be the first. At least today set out

:14:08. > :14:14.a plan, if we leave, how will we leave? Will we go with David Cameron

:14:15. > :14:19.who says it will take 20 years, or Nigel Farage who said it will take

:14:20. > :14:26.two. Or others who say two, but it will take a few more years. Thank

:14:27. > :14:31.you, Claire. I am Adam, an estate agent from Warrington. I am really

:14:32. > :14:37.undecided. If we leave, will be flurries? If we stay, will be crash

:14:38. > :14:41.and burn? We keep getting rhetoric from both sides and I hope today we

:14:42. > :14:46.will learn a little bit more about what we will get from the EU or

:14:47. > :14:54.staying in the UK. How important is this decision for you? For me it is

:14:55. > :14:56.massive, the same as Claire. I am undecided because depending on my

:14:57. > :15:02.work life or death pending on my future, it is an issue for me.

:15:03. > :15:08.Things like the economy and the housing market, you cannot buy a

:15:09. > :15:11.one-bedroom flat in London for ?300,000 and you can buy a five

:15:12. > :15:18.bedroom mansion in Warrington for that money and the disparity is

:15:19. > :15:23.wrong. We're leaving the UK raise house prices or will they go down?

:15:24. > :15:28.How much responsibility do you feel when it comes to this boat?

:15:29. > :15:33.Like my friend was saying here earlier on, if there was a vote

:15:34. > :15:37.tomorrow, for me, if there was a vote today, I would probably leave

:15:38. > :15:42.just for the sheer, let's have a go at it. I'm thinking about my kids in

:15:43. > :15:46.30, 40 years' time, how is that going to affect them? That's a big

:15:47. > :15:51.decision to have on my shoulders. Well, let's hear from our guests.

:15:52. > :15:54.Good morning, Jane Collins. So you have heard a little bit of the

:15:55. > :15:58.debate where you're very familiar with. You've heard from a couple of

:15:59. > :16:02.undecided people. What do you want to say to them this morning? I

:16:03. > :16:06.think, I don't want to give you sound bites. I want to try, as you

:16:07. > :16:13.said, and answer your queries today and I think what we have got it look

:16:14. > :16:17.at is Britain, the UK, is the fifth largest economy and we are capable

:16:18. > :16:26.of standing on our own two feet if we leave the EU.

:16:27. > :16:32.APPLAUSE If we leave the EU, it does not mean we will not be trading with

:16:33. > :16:39.Europe. We will continue to trade. What business has to be in a

:16:40. > :16:44.political union to trade? Since time began, it actually is supply and

:16:45. > :16:49.demand. And yes, obviously there needs to be legislation. You need to

:16:50. > :16:52.protect workers' rights etcetera, I know somebody touched on the facted

:16:53. > :16:54.that they wouldn't trust a Conservative Government to look

:16:55. > :17:03.after workers' rights. Well, let me tell you something. I want to

:17:04. > :17:11.Pontefract Girls' High School, the same school as Barbara Castle. We

:17:12. > :17:16.are capable in this country... We haven't got a constitution? No, she

:17:17. > :17:22.was putting it into the format. Where you vote, on the actual

:17:23. > :17:28.legislation, in Parliament, she was putting it there to be voted on and

:17:29. > :17:34.she put pieces of work in there. If you can remember Made In Dagenham,

:17:35. > :17:39.it was the pioneering start of putting female workers' rights on

:17:40. > :17:51.the map. We are capable of actually looking after our own workers. All

:17:52. > :17:54.right. Let's hear from Lorraine. You are from the Liberal Democrats, what

:17:55. > :17:59.would you say? The point about being in the EU is that there is a minimum

:18:00. > :18:04.standard for employers rights across the whole of the European Union and

:18:05. > :18:08.that means if the Government changes in this country, they can't get rid

:18:09. > :18:12.of them and that, for me, is absolutely vital and I'll tell you

:18:13. > :18:16.why because in the last Coalition Government, the Conservatives tried

:18:17. > :18:21.to get rid of employment rights through something called the Be

:18:22. > :18:25.Croft Report, but they stopped them and they might try again and

:18:26. > :18:29.certainly some of the politicians on the outside used to talk about that

:18:30. > :18:34.and they suddenly stopped. I wonder why? Because employment rights are

:18:35. > :18:36.vital and the EU protects them. APPLAUSE

:18:37. > :18:45.Good morning, hello. Good morning. Hi, good morning. My name is

:18:46. > :18:50.Cynthia. I'm doing media psychology. I'm from a Commonwealth country so I

:18:51. > :18:54.can vote in the coming referendum. However, I am undecided. I feel like

:18:55. > :18:59.both sides of the argument are talking about the same things in

:19:00. > :19:02.different ways, but the bottom line is they are scaremongering. Now, as

:19:03. > :19:07.an international student, there is 300,000 of us in the UK are that's a

:19:08. > :19:11.huge chunk to get on either side of the debate, no side is addressing

:19:12. > :19:14.the things that affect us as international students. Today, eel'

:19:15. > :19:18.hoping to hear something tangible that addresses the issues that

:19:19. > :19:23.international students have in this country. What's the top issue for

:19:24. > :19:29.you? Which country are you from? I'm Nigerian. What's the top issue for a

:19:30. > :19:34.Nigerian student in Britain? The top issue would be, the UK makes it

:19:35. > :19:38.quite easy for us to come here to study, we pay tonnes of money and

:19:39. > :19:41.once we are in here, make it extremely difficult on every level

:19:42. > :19:46.for us to remain here and study. Remain to study. If I'm

:19:47. > :19:50.unfortunately ill at some point and I cannot hand in an assignment and I

:19:51. > :19:55.get extension to do that assignment, the minute my visa expires I'm

:19:56. > :19:58.expected to leave then pay another fresh amount of money to get back in

:19:59. > :20:05.here. It makes it just difficult to be here. So how much easier would it

:20:06. > :20:08.be to just be here and study if the UK leaves or remains? I'm going to

:20:09. > :20:12.come back to that and I promise we will. This bit of the programme is

:20:13. > :20:14.about the economy and I appreciate the point that international

:20:15. > :20:21.students contribute to the British economy. Exactly. Hello. Hi. My name

:20:22. > :20:29.is David. I'm in the construction industry for the last 38 years. Hi

:20:30. > :20:33.David. I'm voting to leave. I think the EU has outgrown its initial

:20:34. > :20:38.concept that was way, way back when it started and I think the model

:20:39. > :20:41.they've got at the moment is just not workable and I don't see them

:20:42. > :20:45.changing. Europe is very, very slow to change. Everything is done by 28

:20:46. > :20:48.nations, it is a committee, Government by committee which what

:20:49. > :20:53.you end up with is a watered down version of everything that goes

:20:54. > :20:57.forward. And I think people have mentioned about workers' rights and

:20:58. > :21:02.Glen mentioned about under cutting of British workers. The only way

:21:03. > :21:07.Europe could work for me is if there was parity across the whole of

:21:08. > :21:11.Europe in terms of wages, health, education, and NHS. We have got a

:21:12. > :21:16.minimum wage in this country as you know. Is the under cutting of

:21:17. > :21:26.British workers to do with the EU or bosses? I think... Hang on. Hang on.

:21:27. > :21:31.Let him finish. I think it is both really. The EU could force it had

:21:32. > :21:35.they had a mind to. The bosses take advantage of it and the workers

:21:36. > :21:38.follow the money. I started out as a brick layer. I would follow the

:21:39. > :21:44.money. They're only doing the same thing. It is human nature. If it is

:21:45. > :21:47.a low wage in Romania and it is a high wage in the UK, they're going

:21:48. > :21:51.to come. The leave vote for you David is to reduce immigration,

:21:52. > :21:54.that's the bottom line, is it? No. No, I don't have a problem with

:21:55. > :21:58.people coming to the country. Right. What I have a problem with is the

:21:59. > :22:03.numbers that's coming and the reasons they're coming. It could be

:22:04. > :22:06.avoided. If the EU said when member states join the EU there is a

:22:07. > :22:11.minimum wage, people wouldn't come for the money. They would come for

:22:12. > :22:15.other reasons. In terms of the Leave campaigners, do you think they've

:22:16. > :22:20.said something to you which would control the numbers of economic

:22:21. > :22:23.migrants? No, they haven't. I have been disappointed by the campaigns

:22:24. > :22:28.on both sides. Particularly the Leave because I think they could

:22:29. > :22:31.have put a better performance to the public to get them to vote for

:22:32. > :22:35.leaving. I think they've let us down. That's interesting. David says

:22:36. > :22:40.his own campaigners have let him down. Hi, good morning. I'm Craig, a

:22:41. > :22:45.carer and a writer from Luton and I studied the history of the European

:22:46. > :22:53.Union at university. Oh my gosh! You poor thing! No, I love Europe and

:22:54. > :22:59.what I'm worried about is this xenophobic group over here. Why do

:23:00. > :23:03.you say they're xenophobic? They're going to take away our British

:23:04. > :23:08.rights to have visa-free travel, to study in Europe. Craig, can I just

:23:09. > :23:13.ask you, hang on a minute, why do you say if they are voting to leave

:23:14. > :23:16.that they are xenophobic? The thing is their fear of immigration coming

:23:17. > :23:23.into our country, they're not realising... Let him finish. They're

:23:24. > :23:27.taking away the freedom of us to study, work, set-up businesses in

:23:28. > :23:32.the whole of Europe. We are Europeans and world citizens. The

:23:33. > :23:39.whole of Europe is a home to work in the whole of Europe. Right, are you

:23:40. > :23:43.xenophobic, is that why you're choosing to leave? I resent the

:23:44. > :23:50.accusation that voting for leave is xenophobic. It is unfair and

:23:51. > :23:57.unjustified. APPLAUSE My parents came to this

:23:58. > :24:01.country as immigrants with nothing and they worked and contributed to

:24:02. > :24:04.the economy. Everything I have, I have because of immigration. I'm not

:24:05. > :24:08.anti-immigration. I'm in favour of it. What I am against is

:24:09. > :24:18.uncontrolled, mass immigration. And as long as...

:24:19. > :24:24.APPLAUSE As long as we are a member of the European Union, we will be

:24:25. > :24:26.unable to have an honest and open discussion in Britain about

:24:27. > :24:31.immigration and we will not be able to control the numbers of people

:24:32. > :24:36.coming into the EU. I also, before I was an MP, I was a lawyer.

:24:37. > :24:39.Specialising in immigration law. We currently have a perverse and

:24:40. > :24:44.discriminatory immigration system whereby if you're from outside the

:24:45. > :24:47.EU, you are subject to a points-based system and you are at

:24:48. > :24:50.the back of the queue compared to a low-skilled EU migrant with no job

:24:51. > :25:00.offer to this country. How is that fair?

:25:01. > :25:06.APPLAUSE Go on, Craig. So you're telling me

:25:07. > :25:09.that the Polish businesses in Luton, the del la ka at thessan and the

:25:10. > :25:17.Romanian restaurants, they will have to go back to their home country?

:25:18. > :25:24.They can live the UK dream like people that live the American dream.

:25:25. > :25:28.The European Union needs to expand out to create international

:25:29. > :25:34.citizenship. The trend in history isn't to form smaller and smaller

:25:35. > :25:38.national groupings. OK. On the point about immigration from outside of

:25:39. > :25:44.the EU, where we have a points system. We apparently can control

:25:45. > :25:49.immigration from outside the EU as a result of that points system. Why is

:25:50. > :25:56.immigration from outside the EU higher than immigration from inside?

:25:57. > :26:02.Well, it is about control and at the moment... Why is it higher? Our

:26:03. > :26:05.voters can discuss and debate what skills are needed. How people can

:26:06. > :26:09.come to this country from other countries. And people have to fulfil

:26:10. > :26:13.particular criteria. They have to speak the language. They have to

:26:14. > :26:16.have sufficient funds and they have to establish that they satisfy

:26:17. > :26:21.particular points. My question is why is it higher? Well, we have a

:26:22. > :26:29.lot of pull factors in this country. The Living Wage... Hang on. Hang on!

:26:30. > :26:33.I'm talking about immigration from outside the EU where we can judge if

:26:34. > :26:39.they have got enough points and if they reach tier one, tier two, tier

:26:40. > :26:42.three or tier four. Why is it higher? Well, we have managed to

:26:43. > :26:46.control immigration from non-EU countries. It is the EU countries

:26:47. > :26:49.where we have no control and the numbers are rising. That's

:26:50. > :26:53.unsustainable and it places considerable pressure on the public

:26:54. > :26:58.services. Can I ask the Remain side here? If Britain votes to remain in

:26:59. > :27:02.the European Union, how will Britain control the numbers wanting to come?

:27:03. > :27:06.In? Hang on. Hang on. The numbers

:27:07. > :27:10.actually control themselves because what happens is... Not according to

:27:11. > :27:14.people on the Leave side. If you look at the amount of time that the

:27:15. > :27:18.gentleman was talking about, the Polish shops in Luton and a lot of

:27:19. > :27:23.people come here and work for two or three or five years and then return

:27:24. > :27:29.home. What is really important about the people who come to work from the

:27:30. > :27:34.EU in this country is they contribute in taxes ?20 billion more

:27:35. > :27:38.than they take out of the country. My question was how will Britain

:27:39. > :27:43.control immigration if we vote to stay in the EU? Well, the way we're

:27:44. > :27:48.controlling it now actually. I'm a woman. I'm an immigrantment I'm a

:27:49. > :27:51.small business ownerment when we look at how immigration is

:27:52. > :27:56.controlled now, our borders are at Calais, they are not at Dover and

:27:57. > :27:59.that's because we are in the EU. Leaving the EU brings the borders

:28:00. > :28:03.back to Dover for us to have to manage this process. This is why you

:28:04. > :28:08.never actually answer the question that immigration from outside the EU

:28:09. > :28:11.is so much higher despite us clamping down on it. It is not so

:28:12. > :28:16.much higher. But it is higher. You have got to be an EU member and got

:28:17. > :28:20.to have been within the EU. It takes eight years to get that status in

:28:21. > :28:24.Germany and five years in Italy. You could be honest with people and say

:28:25. > :28:27.to those who are concerned about the levels of immigration and tell them

:28:28. > :28:31.that the only way to control it is to leave the European Union? Well, I

:28:32. > :28:36.don't actually agree with that at all. What happens is we are talking

:28:37. > :28:43.about economic growth and it has become scaremongering about I will

:28:44. > :28:48.gration instead. We joined this. Free movement won't stop even

:28:49. > :28:51.because we leave the European Union. Norway still has to allow free

:28:52. > :29:00.movement of people and it is not part of the EU. Hello. Good morning.

:29:01. > :29:07.APPLAUSE Good morning, Victoria. May I start

:29:08. > :29:12.by saying my point is about immigration and I want to agree with

:29:13. > :29:16.the gentleman on the Remain side. I have to say, standing here listening

:29:17. > :29:20.over the past few weeks to the things I have heard have saddened

:29:21. > :29:24.me. As a British born Muslim, the reason why I want to leave Europe

:29:25. > :29:28.because I work as a Muslim chaplain and I study law and I'm training to

:29:29. > :29:31.be a barrister. The nuances of sovereignty and politics are very

:29:32. > :29:37.important to me as a British born Muslim. However, I have to say, I

:29:38. > :29:41.have been appalled by the tactics used on this side to scare people

:29:42. > :29:44.about immigration. APPLAUSE

:29:45. > :29:49.The truth is what they do is, we have to take a Tory MP say a

:29:50. > :29:53.sensible debate. The truth is, the sad truth is, most people talk about

:29:54. > :29:57.immigration are rayest and I'm not saying that people over here are,

:29:58. > :30:03.can I finish? Let me finish. I think he is in the wrong chair. The rise

:30:04. > :30:07.of right-wing anti-Islam in Europe is a disgrace. The truth is, we are

:30:08. > :30:12.hearing scare tactics. People are going to talk to you about the NHS

:30:13. > :30:17.and housing crisis, that's not about immigration. That's a failure of

:30:18. > :30:23.Government in this country to build houses and to, you know, you should

:30:24. > :30:26.be scared, because I was in reality recently. I have been diagnosed with

:30:27. > :30:29.an illness and the people that work in hospitals are people who are

:30:30. > :30:39.immigrants. The NHS would collapse without immigration.

:30:40. > :30:46.When you hear... Hang on. Hang on. When you hear Ukip's Nigel Farage...

:30:47. > :30:52.Disgusting. Suggesting yesterday that women in this country might

:30:53. > :30:56.potentially be at risk with a vote to remain from Cologne-style sex

:30:57. > :30:59.attacks, what do you think? It scares me. It makes me think that

:31:00. > :31:04.the people I'm working with every day, young Muslims, what country are

:31:05. > :31:08.they going to be living in. The Ukip member here should apologise for the

:31:09. > :31:13.statement of her leader. Why are you voting leave? I want to make it

:31:14. > :31:17.clear... Let him speak. Let him speak. I want to make it clear to

:31:18. > :31:22.people watching today that there is truth on both sides and the truth is

:31:23. > :31:25.I want to leave because of legal sovereignty argument. My argument is

:31:26. > :31:29.about sovereignty, not immigration. Everyone who votes to leave are not

:31:30. > :31:44.racist, but there are a lot of people who are.

:31:45. > :31:54.There are people over here asking you to come over. That is what they

:31:55. > :32:02.want, they would like to leave. The reason I want to remain are reason

:32:03. > :32:07.about law. Elected MEPs are not elected. They would probably like me

:32:08. > :32:14.to leave this country. Show some respect. I want to say thank you,

:32:15. > :32:17.but let's talk about the real issues. Immigration has been used

:32:18. > :32:24.time and time again to cover over other issues we need to talk about.

:32:25. > :32:31.Austerity and the problems in England today are not due to

:32:32. > :32:38.immigration. Jane Collins, you are a UK MEP, what did you think about

:32:39. > :32:42.Nigel Farage's comments? They were a reflection on what happened in

:32:43. > :32:50.Cologne. Could it happen here? Do you think it is right? That sort of

:32:51. > :32:59.behaviour happened in Cologne, if it happened in Cologne, it can happen

:33:00. > :33:03.anywhere. Can I speak, please? OK. It was there, it happen, you cannot

:33:04. > :33:08.deny that, so there is a problem that has to be addressed. His

:33:09. > :33:13.comments I do not think were scaremongering, he was just saying

:33:14. > :33:20.it has happened in Cologne, it can happen here. We are getting confused

:33:21. > :33:23.between the difference between controlling immigration and

:33:24. > :33:28.controlling migration. We can control immigration. Lots of people

:33:29. > :33:33.come to this country. We are one of the biggest countries for investment

:33:34. > :33:38.in the whole world, which is why we could be independent because people

:33:39. > :33:42.invest in our country. Migration is different. It is uncontrolled

:33:43. > :33:48.movement, not just of workers, but of people. If Britain voted to

:33:49. > :33:54.leave, how would you be able to control that? Because we could

:33:55. > :34:01.control our own borders, for migration, not immigration. European

:34:02. > :34:06.citizens with a European passport, what would happen when they reached

:34:07. > :34:11.Britain? We were to have stronger control. How? They have a European

:34:12. > :34:18.passport, so they would be able to come to Britain. All countries have

:34:19. > :34:24.border checks. We would want to know who was coming in and out of the

:34:25. > :34:32.country, especially nowadays because we have a problem. We have a

:34:33. > :34:36.security problem. What with the difference be if Britain voted to

:34:37. > :34:44.leave? Because we would take back control of our own borders. How? By

:34:45. > :34:52.border checks. We have border checks now. Border checks, you could look

:34:53. > :34:59.and see who was coming in and out of the country, if they had a criminal

:35:00. > :35:04.record. Hello, I used to teach ethnic minority children, refugees

:35:05. > :35:11.and asylum seekers. The problem of immigration has been playing on our

:35:12. > :35:17.minds since after the Second World War. Can I draw our attention back

:35:18. > :35:22.to history? Britain is the fifth biggest economy? How did we become

:35:23. > :35:25.the fifth biggest economy? Consider the contribution of the countries

:35:26. > :35:30.that we were aligned with in the past.

:35:31. > :35:40.APPLAUSE .

:35:41. > :35:45.Let me finish. We are now fifth? If you want to become the first country

:35:46. > :35:50.in the world, think about how we created the wealth. Also I would

:35:51. > :35:55.like to point out that we became fifth because of the contribution of

:35:56. > :35:59.other countries. Now we want to cooperate with the European

:36:00. > :36:06.countries. When the people from other countries came here, we did

:36:07. > :36:11.not like it. They contributed to the economy of this country, they

:36:12. > :36:16.settled. Now our attention has turned to European countries. Who

:36:17. > :36:20.will be next? Let me read comments from people watching. We have got

:36:21. > :36:26.plenty more time to talk. Do not worry if I have not come to you yet.

:36:27. > :36:29.Julie on Twitter says, when my grandchildren vote, I want to know

:36:30. > :36:37.they have the power to change things through our own parliament and

:36:38. > :36:40.democracy. Julie Willis says, your audience member Mohammed was

:36:41. > :36:47.speaking the plain truth better than anyone else I have seen on TV.

:36:48. > :36:52.Matthew on twitter says, how dare that man called the group of lead

:36:53. > :37:02.people xenophobic, that is disgusting, shame on you. And Max in

:37:03. > :37:08.the north east of England says this is proving to me that the Leave

:37:09. > :37:14.Campaign have no real plan, these people do not even know what they

:37:15. > :37:18.are saying. So, much more to come on all the subjects that our audience

:37:19. > :37:25.want to talk about. We started with the economy and jobs and we soon got

:37:26. > :37:31.onto immigration, but first he is a summary of the news.

:37:32. > :37:34.Leading Brexit campaigners have claimed a vote to remain could mean

:37:35. > :37:37.Britain has to pay billions of pounds more towards

:37:38. > :37:41.The Remain campaign says the figures are nonsense and claims the UK

:37:42. > :37:44.would have a veto on any proposed budget increase.

:37:45. > :37:53.Both sides have been setting out their arguments on this programme.

:37:54. > :38:02.The UK is the fifth largest economy and we are capable of standing on

:38:03. > :38:03.our own two feat if we leave the EU. Employment rights are vital and the

:38:04. > :38:10.EU protect them. Scientists in the United States have

:38:11. > :38:12.begun using a controversial technique to create human organs,

:38:13. > :38:15.by growing them inside pigs. Critics have expressed ethical

:38:16. > :38:17.concerns about the project, by a research team at the University

:38:18. > :38:21.of California, which involves injecting human stem cells

:38:22. > :38:25.into pig embryos. The aim is to produce a pancreas

:38:26. > :38:31.suitable for a human transplant. The body of Muhammad Ali has

:38:32. > :38:34.arrived in his hometown The boxing legend

:38:35. > :38:39.died at the weekend. His family accompanied the coffin

:38:40. > :38:42.as it was driven in a convoy His funeral will take place

:38:43. > :38:48.there on Friday, when former US President Bill Clinton

:38:49. > :38:53.will deliver a eulogy. At least three people have been

:38:54. > :38:56.killed and nine injured in a crash involving two trains in eastern

:38:57. > :38:59.Belgium. Some of the injured

:39:00. > :39:02.are critically hurt. The accident happened when a high

:39:03. > :39:03.speed passenger service crashed into the back of a goods train

:39:04. > :39:07.near the city of Liege An eyewitness said two carriages had

:39:08. > :39:14.been completely destroyed. A new study suggests that women

:39:15. > :39:16.who've had breast cancer could benefit from staying

:39:17. > :39:20.on hormone blocking drugs That's more than double the number

:39:21. > :39:25.of years they're The US study found that long term

:39:26. > :39:31.use of the drugs could cut the risk However there are also warnings

:39:32. > :39:37.about the drugs' side effects. That's a summary of

:39:38. > :39:51.the latest BBC News. Good morning. Andy Murray's first

:39:52. > :39:56.French Open final ended in defeat. He was beaten in four sets by Novak

:39:57. > :40:01.Djokovic, who claimed his fourth title in Paris and he becomes only

:40:02. > :40:08.the eighth player in the open era to win all four grand slams since Rod

:40:09. > :40:15.Labour in 1969 and to hold them all at the same time. Wales were beaten

:40:16. > :40:20.3-0 in Sweden. Their first game is against Slovakia on Saturday. Jamie

:40:21. > :40:25.Vardy is expected to decide whether he will join Arsenal from Leicester

:40:26. > :40:30.City later today. The decision is expected to be made sometime before

:40:31. > :40:34.he flies out with the England squad to France. Mo Farah broke the

:40:35. > :40:39.British 3000 metres record at the Diamond league meeting in

:40:40. > :40:44.Birmingham. He recorded a time of 7.32.6 seconds to break David

:40:45. > :40:52.Moorcroft's long-standing record by a 10th of a second. That is all the

:40:53. > :40:58.Hello, welcome to Manchester with an audience of voters

:40:59. > :41:23.We have a heated half an hour, but in two weeks' time you will be able

:41:24. > :41:28.to make your thoughts known. People here say they feel the weight of

:41:29. > :41:32.that responsibility on whether or not Britain remains or stays in the

:41:33. > :41:41.European Union. The deadline to register to vote is tomorrow.

:41:42. > :41:45.For many of you the most important factor is the impact on the economy.

:41:46. > :42:04.Here is Norman Smith on the impact weather leaving remaining could have

:42:05. > :42:05.on the money in your pocket. The UK does around half its trade with the

:42:06. > :43:16.EU. Still with us for Leave,

:43:17. > :43:26.Suella Fernandes, a Conservative MP, They want the UK to leave

:43:27. > :43:30.the European Union. And for Remain, Sal Brinton,

:43:31. > :43:32.President of the Liberal Democrats, and Geeta Sidhu-Robb,

:43:33. > :43:35.who's a business leader and member of the "women in" campaign -

:43:36. > :43:50.they want the UK to stay Hello, introduce yourself. Hello, my

:43:51. > :43:57.name is Paul and I am a sound engineer. I spent about 20-30% of my

:43:58. > :44:02.time working in Europe. At this time there will be a good few thousand

:44:03. > :44:08.British crew working in Europe. In our industry Britain completely

:44:09. > :44:15.dominates Europe and the reason we dominate is because we move freely

:44:16. > :44:20.between borders. If large, American acts and artists are touring Europe,

:44:21. > :44:26.they come to UK companies. Our industry is about three times the

:44:27. > :44:34.size of Germany's. Would that stop if Britain was not a member of the

:44:35. > :44:40.EU? Yes, it would. If I travel Visa free, we do not pay, if I did not

:44:41. > :44:46.have a visa, somebody would have to pay for those. We travel in a convoy

:44:47. > :44:49.of 15 trucks with thousands of pieces of equipment and we have to

:44:50. > :44:52.list every single piece of equipment that goes through a non-EU border

:44:53. > :45:01.and that would cost time and resources. The jobs we do are well

:45:02. > :45:06.paid and highly skilled, a replacement for engineering jobs if

:45:07. > :45:11.you like. My question is what jobs will replace these jobs? The

:45:12. > :45:17.entertainment industry is a huge part of our economy. Are you saying

:45:18. > :45:21.you fear for your job? I certainly fear for the amount of work I have.

:45:22. > :45:27.Before I came on this programme I spoke to the people who ran the two

:45:28. > :45:34.largest rental companies in the UK and they are all terrified. My point

:45:35. > :45:37.to the man over there, when you said this is not about business, this is

:45:38. > :45:45.about people. People All the people I employ, they are

:45:46. > :45:49.people. The people I work with in my company, they are people. And they

:45:50. > :45:56.are affected by what happens to our business.

:45:57. > :46:03.Geta, you run your own company. Do you echo what... I really echo that.

:46:04. > :46:09.Not only do I employ people across Europe, but across my business. But

:46:10. > :46:13.you would still be able to employ people from Europe? Nobody pays me.

:46:14. > :46:18.Every day I wake up and I have to make money to pay for everyone that

:46:19. > :46:23.works por me and my children, the way I make that money is I go to a

:46:24. > :46:28.market. If you reduce my market, how is that not going to hurt my

:46:29. > :46:32.business? Because of taxes, it is paying the taxes of going abroad. It

:46:33. > :46:36.is paying the levies and the fines or the products that I have coming

:46:37. > :46:40.in. Every time you guys talk about briefing Brexit, the pound drops.

:46:41. > :46:47.That means everything I do costs more. Every time. Hang on. Hang on.

:46:48. > :46:51.Don't shout. Don't shout. Finish the sentence and then I will be with

:46:52. > :46:55.you. That's part of the problem. Every time somebody talks about

:46:56. > :47:03.Brexit, the pound drops. Everything I buy from Europe costs me more now.

:47:04. > :47:08.It is good for exporters you have got to admit. Good morning. I'm Paul

:47:09. > :47:15.Austin. I am a small and medium business owner as well and I'm from

:47:16. > :47:19.Manchester and I live up in the Redcar Cleveland. I employ people

:47:20. > :47:23.from Poland and Lithuania. Our friend talking about his concert

:47:24. > :47:27.company, we're the best in the world. That's why you're employed to

:47:28. > :47:30.be doing that. You do a great job, trust me, you will be OK on that.

:47:31. > :47:35.Don't worry about that. But getting back to the economy, if we look at

:47:36. > :47:39.immigration problem, and go back to the guy talking about housing, on

:47:40. > :47:44.the economy, we have a million empty unrefurbished home in this country

:47:45. > :47:49.right now. If we removed VAT, from the repairs and the remedial works,

:47:50. > :47:53.this would create nearly ?50 billion worth of work. The British

:47:54. > :47:58.Government could do that. They do nothing about the VAT. David you

:47:59. > :48:05.said to, I'm sorry, I've forgotten your name. Paul. You said you are

:48:06. > :48:10.the best in the world at what we do, if we leave, you will be OK. You

:48:11. > :48:19.will get paid. Rolls-Royce is the best. I have got no concern about

:48:20. > :48:24.that at all. Paul, go ahead. One second. With all due respect, mate,

:48:25. > :48:34.you don't know what you're talking about. I have been in business for

:48:35. > :48:40.35 years. Let me finish my argument as to why. I am allowed to make...

:48:41. > :48:43.Don't make an argument about what I'm talking about. I understand what

:48:44. > :48:49.you are saying. It is not about being the best, it is about being,

:48:50. > :48:54.it is also about being the most efficient and financial EU efficient

:48:55. > :48:59.and if you put visas and borders in people's way. You believe that's

:49:00. > :49:05.going to happen. It is not going to happen. Trucks going into Europe

:49:06. > :49:14.will be stopped and tipped and emptied. Thank you, David. You are a

:49:15. > :49:19.Conservative MP. Michael Gove from the Leave side said last week he

:49:20. > :49:23.can't guarantee that people currently in jobs will keep those

:49:24. > :49:26.jobs in the event of a leave vote. How many jobs will be lost if

:49:27. > :49:31.Britain votes to leave? I think we've got to look at the opportunity

:49:32. > :49:36.for increased trade. I'm asking you, I'm going to stop you right there.

:49:37. > :49:41.I'm not going to give predictions about jobs. It is so crucial. It is

:49:42. > :49:46.crystal ball gazing. Hang on a minute. I'm going to pause you

:49:47. > :49:49.there. Do you agree with Michael Gove that people currently in work

:49:50. > :49:53.will not be guaranteed work if Britain votes to leave? I'm not

:49:54. > :49:57.going to make any predictions. I'm not asking you to predict. I'm

:49:58. > :50:01.asking if you you agree... No. I don't think it is about predicting.

:50:02. > :50:06.I think it is about looking at the facts... Why, what would you say to

:50:07. > :50:10.someone, what would you say to someone who might lose their job in

:50:11. > :50:13.the event of a vote to leave? What would you say to them now? Look at

:50:14. > :50:18.the European Union. Look at countries like Greece and Spain and

:50:19. > :50:23.Italy where 50% of young people are unemployed. Do we want to continue

:50:24. > :50:26.our membership with a failing economic agenda? No, let's get out

:50:27. > :50:30.while we can. You can't guarantee that people will continue in work in

:50:31. > :50:35.the event of a vote to leave? What I can say is that if we continue to

:50:36. > :50:39.stay in the European Union, we will continue to be bailing out failing

:50:40. > :50:46.economies and failing euros. We will be continuing to be part of a

:50:47. > :50:49.restrictive trade membership. We have already lost the steel

:50:50. > :50:54.industry and we've lost the coal industry. We have lost loads of

:50:55. > :51:02.manufacturing and heavy industry and fishing. Hello, hi. This is what I

:51:03. > :51:06.was saying so I am at risk of losing my job if we leave the EU because

:51:07. > :51:13.third sector is highly funded by the EU. So I'm at risk of losing my job,

:51:14. > :51:18.but also I help the most vulnerable of society. I help the homeless, the

:51:19. > :51:22.drug users, the alcoholics, the young people and we are at the

:51:23. > :51:26.bottom of our society and are getting tread on deeper and deeper

:51:27. > :51:33.to where they are not going to be helped. So if we leave somebody

:51:34. > :51:39.answer this, are the Government going to fund and match fund what

:51:40. > :51:49.the EU gives to the third sector to help the most vulnerable?

:51:50. > :51:53.Britain currently pays a net amount of ?10 billion a year to the

:51:54. > :51:58.European Union... It is ?8.5 billion the last set of figures. We are the

:51:59. > :52:04.net contributor. If we leave the EU, that money will be able to be

:52:05. > :52:08.diverted to British services and to youth services and to charitable

:52:09. > :52:11.sector and to our hospitals and our schools without going through the

:52:12. > :52:14.EU. To me, that makes a lot of sense. You can control, you can

:52:15. > :52:18.choose and if your politicians don't make the decisions that you want,

:52:19. > :52:23.you can get rid of them. At moment, you can't.

:52:24. > :52:30.APPLAUSE Does that reassure you? No, not at

:52:31. > :52:35.all, being honest. Adult services, adult skills, basic skills for the

:52:36. > :52:40.basic entry levels one and two, of English and maths which primary

:52:41. > :52:46.school age, the Government have cut that funding. Why have we got

:52:47. > :52:52.24-year-old adults plus who cannot do the basic reading and writing?

:52:53. > :52:58.And then the Government have cut that funding. You are on the Remain

:52:59. > :53:00.side. Do you buy the Bank of England, the Treasury's forecast for

:53:01. > :53:05.recession, job losses, interest rates going up and so on and so

:53:06. > :53:10.forth? I think we have just heard from Paul why we might move into

:53:11. > :53:15.recession because if you have to have extra costs, if tariffs are put

:53:16. > :53:19.on us trading with Europe, and I know the Remain side say it won't

:53:20. > :53:24.happen, but the evidence of Switzerland is there are tariffs

:53:25. > :53:29.then profitability goes down and when that happens, jobs get lost and

:53:30. > :53:33.when that happens, there is less tax revenue coming into Government to be

:53:34. > :53:38.able to fund the NHS and the social care and the voluntary sector.

:53:39. > :53:42.That's it the fundamental problem. How many job losses will there be if

:53:43. > :53:47.Britain votes to remain in the European Union? I am not aware that

:53:48. > :53:55.there will be any. Why would there be? It is status quo? Relating to

:53:56. > :53:58.Europe. Relating to Europe. As you heard from this side, you can see

:53:59. > :54:03.the unemployment rates in places like Spain and Greece and Italy.

:54:04. > :54:10.Youth unemployment... Our economies are totally different. Our economy

:54:11. > :54:13.has been growing so quickly and we have created more work, we have made

:54:14. > :54:19.more money and the pound is stronger. We export 50% of our

:54:20. > :54:22.exports go to the EU. So we have become a better economy while we

:54:23. > :54:27.have been in Europe, not that lef had to leave it do to it. There

:54:28. > :54:31.issen certainty because of the stagnation when it comes to growth

:54:32. > :54:36.in the euro area, the high levels of unemployment and the migrant crisis

:54:37. > :54:39.unfolding for a second year? Have you seen floods of refugees coming

:54:40. > :54:43.in here? I'm talking about uncertainty which can affect the

:54:44. > :54:46.economy? The uncertainty that comes from the Leave campaign is much,

:54:47. > :54:50.much I'm asking about higher. The Remain side. No, I think we're

:54:51. > :54:54.Rennesesing. We have got a good agreement that protects us and I

:54:55. > :55:02.think our trade actually continues to support our economy and makes us

:55:03. > :55:06.a stronger country. OK. I'm Marcus and I'm from Sheffield and I have

:55:07. > :55:10.finished my degree in biology. I have got a teaching job over in

:55:11. > :55:14.Germany next year, a lot of my friends and course mates struggled

:55:15. > :55:17.to find a graduate job. What can the Leave and Remain side offer to

:55:18. > :55:22.people coming out to university or just about to start an

:55:23. > :55:28.apprenticeship. Jane Collins, Ukip MEP? What we have got to do is if we

:55:29. > :55:34.leave and I hope we do, is we have to then look to our Government and

:55:35. > :55:41.say, "Right, you are going to invest in our young people. You are now

:55:42. > :55:48.going to... " Let her finish. We are going to say, "We will now put the

:55:49. > :55:53.money into training nurses." Like you've gone through your education,

:55:54. > :55:57.it will be investing in our own country, investing in people like

:55:58. > :56:01.yourself who has gone through an education, who is very valuable to

:56:02. > :56:05.us so we don't lose you and you go abroad. We have got to invest in our

:56:06. > :56:09.youth. Can they not do that now as members of the EU? Well, we don't

:56:10. > :56:15.really have the money do we? Because if you look... They could reduce the

:56:16. > :56:24.foreign aid budget which Ukip would like them to do? Yeah, we would. The

:56:25. > :56:29.figures, it is simple. ?8.5 billion net, yes, a year, just going to the

:56:30. > :56:34.national health which is in ?2.5 billion debt. Add the figures up. If

:56:35. > :56:38.we weren't paying that money in, we could do an awful lot more, not just

:56:39. > :56:43.for education, but for national health and for our social services.

:56:44. > :56:46.That means farmers, so physical that happened, if that ?8.5 billion wept

:56:47. > :56:50.to the NHS that would mean farmers who get more than 50% of the their

:56:51. > :56:53.income from the EU would be decimated.

:56:54. > :56:59.APPLAUSE No. No. No. No. No. I have been in

:57:00. > :57:03.farming all my life. How would they not be decimated? The Common

:57:04. > :57:08.Agricultural Policy was in place before the ECC actually... I'm

:57:09. > :57:11.talking about the fact that 50% of British farmers income come from the

:57:12. > :57:16.European Unionment you said the contribution that Britain makes to

:57:17. > :57:21.the EU, we could put that ?8.5 billion net into the NHS. That's the

:57:22. > :57:25.net. That's the net. Our farmers would still receive, would still

:57:26. > :57:34.receive subsidies, but what we would do... ?2.5 billion in subsidies. ?6

:57:35. > :57:41.billion net. You want to answer our students... I want to answer the

:57:42. > :57:45.students question. There was a crisis for students after the last

:57:46. > :57:48.banking recession. We are coming out of that and graduate jobs are

:57:49. > :57:53.increasing. They need to increase more. The best way for them to

:57:54. > :57:56.increase is to have a solid economy and being in Europe has demonstrated

:57:57. > :58:02.that. When people talk about money coming out and us not getting money,

:58:03. > :58:08.we pay ?5 billion a year in to the universities and research fundful we

:58:09. > :58:11.get ?8 billion back. Why? Because we are so good and European

:58:12. > :58:19.universities want to work with us, we are a powerhouse of research. We

:58:20. > :58:25.mustn't lose that. Hi. My name is a student. I'm a

:58:26. > :58:29.student and I'm from Warrington. I know this Tory Government doesn't

:58:30. > :58:31.care about young people. APPLAUSE

:58:32. > :58:37.We are one of the strongest economies in Europe. A Europe that

:58:38. > :58:42.we trade nearly half of our exports to, a Europe that nearly three

:58:43. > :58:46.million jobs are linked with through trade, jobs have maternity law and

:58:47. > :58:50.protection for agency workers. If we leave, not only would that be at

:58:51. > :58:55.risk plus more, it would be subject to negotiation. My question for the

:58:56. > :59:00.Leave side is, based on the existing models, what relationship with the

:59:01. > :59:08.EU do you hope to have post Brexit because why do you want to relegate

:59:09. > :59:11.Britain to a Norwegian model or a Canadian model? When we have a

:59:12. > :59:15.British model that works. We have got a British model that works. We

:59:16. > :59:28.are outside of Europe. We are outside of Schengen. The EU works

:59:29. > :59:34.part of the EU and many of which are doing much better than the EU. We

:59:35. > :59:38.have no trade deal. We will have a British model building trade and

:59:39. > :59:41.connections, trading with Commonwealth countries where we

:59:42. > :59:48.share history and where we can have equal opportunities. We can do that

:59:49. > :59:53.as well as being in the EU. The Conservative Government, they are

:59:54. > :59:57.just not working they are not doing it for the steel and they are not

:59:58. > :00:02.doing it for us. I'm going to read some comments. "The remain side

:00:03. > :00:06.needs more of these Ukip folks on the broadcast media. It enables the

:00:07. > :00:13.truth and unpleasantness of Brexit to emerge." Pete has e-mailed to

:00:14. > :00:16.say, "I always thought I lived in a tolerant society, but I have to say

:00:17. > :00:27.I'm sad to see speakers of either side of the debate being shouted

:00:28. > :00:31.down rather than a serious debate. " Andy says, "It seems whatever one

:00:32. > :00:36.side says on an issue, the other side knock it. It is not going to

:00:37. > :00:45.get anything sorted! " He might be spot on there. Thank you very much

:00:46. > :00:52.to our contributors. We will be joined by a Labour MP, Yvette Cooper

:00:53. > :00:58.for Remain and Emma who is a Conservative MEP.

:00:59. > :01:22.this is not about business, this is about people. People

:01:23. > :01:30.hopefully things will brighten up a little bit across the Channel

:01:31. > :01:34.Islands later on. A lot of sunshine to come elsewhere as we go on

:01:35. > :01:37.through the day. Out West that sunshine and that warmth will

:01:38. > :01:47.develop some showers and quite heavy and thundery ones. The best of the

:01:48. > :01:53.brightness, maybe 28 degrees, but a bit cooler for the North Sea coasts.

:01:54. > :01:57.Overnight some of the showers will continue, particularly in western

:01:58. > :02:02.parts. It will be a muggy night for most of us.

:02:03. > :02:04.Hello, good morning, welcome to Manchester where we're

:02:05. > :02:07.debating whether we'll be better off if the UK leaves or remains

:02:08. > :02:20.We're joined by an audience of 145 people who all want to know how

:02:21. > :02:25.a decision to stay in or leave the European Union will affect them.

:02:26. > :02:30.Voters here have been telling us they feel it's

:02:31. > :02:43.What about the British people? What about the low skilled people that

:02:44. > :02:47.are not being protected? What about people who have not got academic

:02:48. > :02:53.backgrounds, who are not innovators, who cannot move? This country has

:02:54. > :02:57.not protected their workers since the 80s, not once, and it is only

:02:58. > :03:04.because of Europe that we have any kind of protection. And passionate

:03:05. > :03:09.views on immigration from both the league and remain sides. I love

:03:10. > :03:17.Europe and what I am worried about is this xenophobic group over here.

:03:18. > :03:21.Why do you say they are xenophobic? They will take away our British

:03:22. > :03:27.rights to have these free travel, to study in Europe. I totally resent

:03:28. > :03:35.the accusation that voting for leave is xenophobic. It is unfair and

:03:36. > :03:40.unjustified. But so many people are saying they cannot decide between

:03:41. > :03:45.project fear and project lead. I have been appalled by the tactics

:03:46. > :03:56.used on this side to scare people about immigration. The truth is we

:03:57. > :03:59.have heard a Tory MP say a sensible debate, but the sad truth is most

:04:00. > :04:03.people who talk about immigration are racist. And the debate continues

:04:04. > :04:06.And the debate continues this morning.

:04:07. > :04:08.And, as you'd expect, throughout the programme

:04:09. > :04:11.we want to hear from you, do get in touch in the usual ways.

:04:12. > :04:12.You can E-mail us at victoria@bbc.co.uk.

:04:13. > :04:16.On Facebook search Victoria Derbyshire.

:04:17. > :04:33.Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:04:34. > :04:37.Over the next hour we'll discuss the campaign itself and if a lot

:04:38. > :04:47.of the scaremongering and negativity is putting you off, plus we'll talk

:04:48. > :04:49.about security and we'll ask our 50 undecideds

:04:50. > :04:51.here if they're any closer to making up their mind

:04:52. > :04:56.First Rebecca Jones has a summary of the news.

:04:57. > :04:58.Leading Brexit campaigners have claimed a vote to remain could mean

:04:59. > :05:00.Britain has to pay billions of pounds more

:05:01. > :05:06.The remain campaign says the figures are nonsense and claims the UK

:05:07. > :05:13.would have a veto on any proposed budget increase.

:05:14. > :05:21.Business owners have been giving us their views in a live discussion

:05:22. > :05:26.from Manchester. People are business, small businesses are

:05:27. > :05:32.people. People employed and they are people and they are affected by what

:05:33. > :05:38.happens to our business. I employ people from Poland and Lithuania and

:05:39. > :05:42.I paid them every morning. Our friend was talking about his concept

:05:43. > :05:47.company, with the best in the world, and that is why you are employed to

:05:48. > :05:51.be doing that. You have a great job, trust me, you will be OK on that.

:05:52. > :05:53.Scientists in the United States have begun using a controversial

:05:54. > :05:57.technique to create human organs, by growing them inside pigs.

:05:58. > :06:00.Critics have expressed ethical concerns about the project,

:06:01. > :06:02.by a research team at the University of California, which involves

:06:03. > :06:05.injecting human stem cells into pig embryos.

:06:06. > :06:09.The aim is to produce a pancreas suitable for a human transplant.

:06:10. > :06:12.Our hope is that this pig embryo will develop normally,

:06:13. > :06:16.but the pancreas will be made almost exclusively out of human

:06:17. > :06:20.cells so that then, that pancreas can be compatible

:06:21. > :06:30.The body of Muhammad Ali has arrived in his hometown

:06:31. > :06:37.The boxing legend died at the weekend.

:06:38. > :06:40.His family accompanied the coffin as it was driven in a convoy

:06:41. > :06:44.His funeral will take place there on Friday, when former US

:06:45. > :06:46.President Bill Clinton will deliver a eulogy.

:06:47. > :06:49.At least three people have been killed and nine injured in a crash

:06:50. > :06:52.involving two trains in eastern Belgium.

:06:53. > :06:54.Some of the injured are critically hurt.

:06:55. > :06:56.The accident happened when a high speed passenger service crashed

:06:57. > :06:59.into the back of a goods train near the city of Liege

:07:00. > :07:07.An eyewitness said two carriages had been completely destroyed.

:07:08. > :07:09.A new study suggests that women who've had breast cancer

:07:10. > :07:12.could benefit from staying on hormone blocking drugs

:07:13. > :07:17.That's more than double the number of years they're

:07:18. > :07:23.The US study found that long term use of the drugs could cut the risk

:07:24. > :07:30.However, there are also warnings about the drugs' side effects.

:07:31. > :07:32.It's all about balancing the risks and benefits.

:07:33. > :07:35.There was an increased risk of bone fractures in the study,

:07:36. > :07:38.so it's most likely appropriate for those women at highest

:07:39. > :07:45.Three people have died along the east coast of Australia

:07:46. > :07:50.Hundreds of homes were evacuated in New South Wales, Queensland

:07:51. > :07:54.More than twenty flood warnings are in place.

:07:55. > :07:57.In Sydney, beach front homes have been partly washed away

:07:58. > :08:02.by an unusually high tide and big waves.

:08:03. > :08:05.An award-winning American photo-journalist and his Afghan

:08:06. > :08:08.translator have been killed in a Taliban ambush

:08:09. > :08:15.David Gilkey, who was 50, worked for National Public Radio in the US.

:08:16. > :08:17.They died when the army convoy they were travelling

:08:18. > :08:24.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:08:25. > :08:30.More at 10.30am. Now the sport.

:08:31. > :08:39.Andy Murray's first French Open final ended in defeat. He was beaten

:08:40. > :08:42.in four sets by Novak Djokovic, who claimed his first title in Paris. He

:08:43. > :08:49.becomes only the eighth player in the open era to win all four grand

:08:50. > :08:56.slams and the first since Rod Labour in 1969 to hold them all at the same

:08:57. > :09:01.time. Wales were beaten 3-0 in Sweden. Their first game at the

:09:02. > :09:05.championship is against Slovakia on Saturday. Jamie Vardy is expected to

:09:06. > :09:09.decide whether he will join Arsenal from Leicester City later on this

:09:10. > :09:14.morning. The decision is expected to be made before he flies out to

:09:15. > :09:19.France with the England squad. Mo Farah broke the British 3000 metres

:09:20. > :09:25.record at the Diamond league meeting in Birmingham. He recorded a time of

:09:26. > :09:29.seven point 32.6 seconds to break David Moorcroft's long-standing

:09:30. > :09:35.record by a 10th of a second. That is all for now.

:09:36. > :09:38.Good morning and welcome to the programme.

:09:39. > :09:41.In just over two weeks' time, Britain, you, will go to the polls

:09:42. > :09:43.to decide the future of the United Kingdom

:09:44. > :09:45.and whether it remains or leaves the European Union.

:09:46. > :10:01.We're live in Manchester with an audience of 145 voters.

:10:02. > :10:05.I was going to say 150, but somewhere along the way we have lost

:10:06. > :10:12.five people. We've

:10:13. > :10:14.now been joined by Yvette Cooper, Labour MP who wants Britain

:10:15. > :10:18.to remain in the EU, and Emma McClarkin, Conservative MEP

:10:19. > :10:23.who wants Britain to leave the EU. Sal Brinton from Remain

:10:24. > :10:27.is still with us as is Jane Collins, Hitler, global recession,

:10:28. > :10:33.uncontrolled immigration, thousands of job losses,

:10:34. > :10:36.even a risk to peace in our time, pretty much every scare tactic has

:10:37. > :10:39.been used when it comes to trying to persuade us how to

:10:40. > :10:43.vote in the referendum. Former conservative

:10:44. > :10:48.Prime Minister John Major campaign of being deceitful

:10:49. > :10:52.and squalid, whilst those who want the UK to get out

:10:53. > :11:06.of the European Union say the Remain Let's spend the next few minutes

:11:07. > :11:13.talking about the campaign and what you have thought about it so far.

:11:14. > :11:18.This is our undecided section. I am Suzanne and a manager with a large

:11:19. > :11:22.corporate insurer. I am frustrated with the whole thing. Politicians on

:11:23. > :11:26.both sides are behaving like children in the playground, slinging

:11:27. > :11:30.things at each other. I do not know how to make a decision and it is an

:11:31. > :11:37.important decision about our futures. At this point we are not

:11:38. > :11:40.getting any information, we are just getting scaremongering and

:11:41. > :11:45.outrageous statements that they cannot back up. This has never

:11:46. > :11:50.happened before, so it is pretty much all guesswork, but they will

:11:51. > :11:56.not admit that. How do they know? It would be more helpful if people said

:11:57. > :12:01.I think this is going to happen, I don't know, but I think this might

:12:02. > :12:07.happen. If there was some honesty from politicians, if they would say,

:12:08. > :12:12.we cannot give you a guarantee, but this may happen, this is a good

:12:13. > :12:18.probability that it will happen. Instead we are getting outrageous

:12:19. > :12:25.statements. In the next two weeks, what is it that will help you make

:12:26. > :12:30.up your mind? Just some honesty. I want one of these politicians to be

:12:31. > :12:34.honest about their opinion. At the moment you cannot trust what they

:12:35. > :12:37.are saying because you know at the back of it they are out for

:12:38. > :12:43.themselves as well and you want some honest, straightforward facts. You

:12:44. > :12:49.may not get that in the next couple of weeks, so what will you do? That

:12:50. > :12:53.is what conflicts me. I want to vote because it is an important decision,

:12:54. > :12:59.but at the moment there is not anything out there for me to base my

:13:00. > :13:02.decision on. If you get to do on the 23rd and you still have not had that

:13:03. > :13:09.information you are desperate for, will you go with your head, heart,

:13:10. > :13:14.what? I am so conflicted at the moment that I do not even know. Part

:13:15. > :13:18.of me says go with lead and give that a chance because all I have

:13:19. > :13:24.ever known in my life is being in the EU. Part of me thinks give that

:13:25. > :13:30.a try, but at the same time it is such a big decision and it is such a

:13:31. > :13:34.risk that it is a lot for everyone as an individual to be making a

:13:35. > :13:39.decision on and at the moment we have got no information to base that

:13:40. > :13:47.decision on, so we'd be lost. Do you feel lost? Absolutely, I am Jules, a

:13:48. > :13:51.property developer based in Manchester and London. Two weeks

:13:52. > :13:55.away from what is going to be one of the biggest decisions in all of our

:13:56. > :13:59.generation that will affect all of the people in this room, the Next

:14:00. > :14:04.Generation and the next, the information that is coming out is

:14:05. > :14:09.pathetic. The politicians really need to get their act together. The

:14:10. > :14:13.leaflet that came to everyone's door, a five-year-old could have

:14:14. > :14:18.read that. That was from the Government, the Remain Campaign.

:14:19. > :14:23.That was not information in that and I want to make a good decision. I

:14:24. > :14:32.feel that weighs heavily on us for what will happen in the future.

:14:33. > :14:41.Emma, a Conservative MP. I totally understand how you are feeling and

:14:42. > :14:44.the comments you have made today. I am a member of the European

:14:45. > :14:49.Parliament and have been for seven years and I have a very well-paid

:14:50. > :15:01.job and I am asking people to book me out of a job because it is not in

:15:02. > :15:07.my countrybest interests. Jools, that is probably an honestly held

:15:08. > :15:08.opinion from an MEP right here. In the end you will have to make a

:15:09. > :15:27.call. Politicians always seem to get out

:15:28. > :15:31.of the mire they get themselves in. Let's talk to Yvette Cooper. First

:15:32. > :15:34.of all, do you accept that both sides haven't covered themselves in

:15:35. > :15:38.glory when it comes to referendum? There has been a lot of shouting and

:15:39. > :15:43.the shouting doesn't help people here. What the real arguments are. I

:15:44. > :15:46.think it is also been quite a lot of debates been the Tory Party and it

:15:47. > :15:51.is felt a bit more like it is about the future of the Conservative Party

:15:52. > :15:54.when it should be about all of our futures and the future of the

:15:55. > :15:56.country. I would like to hear a lot more from trade unions talking about

:15:57. > :16:00.working people and workers' rights and it is good that we're hearing

:16:01. > :16:04.some of them speaking out today. And also I would like to hear more from

:16:05. > :16:14.young people because you know, in the end, this is about their future

:16:15. > :16:17.and what happens to them. In term of everybody's question

:16:18. > :16:22.about what are the facts? Part of the problem here is that we don't

:16:23. > :16:26.know what the trade deal would be if we pull out. What we do know is that

:16:27. > :16:32.it will be worse than the trade deal we have got at the moment. How do

:16:33. > :16:36.you know that? How do you know that? Because think of what it means from

:16:37. > :16:41.the point of view of other European Union countries. Why would they give

:16:42. > :16:51.us a better deal than they've got? And a better deal than we've got? Do

:16:52. > :16:54.you accept that? It will be a worse trade deal than the one Britain has

:16:55. > :17:02.at the moment? How do you know it will be better than the one we've

:17:03. > :17:07.got at the moment? We currently don't have inside the EU trade deals

:17:08. > :17:12.with New Zealand, Canada or the USA, we are not focussing on what is in

:17:13. > :17:17.the best interests of the UK. You are emphatic as Yvette Cooper was

:17:18. > :17:27.emphatic the other way, you are emphatic it would be better than the

:17:28. > :17:33.one we have got now? We don't have to accept either. Please can you

:17:34. > :17:36.answer this question? Will it be better? Emma, please, will it be

:17:37. > :17:40.better than the deal Britain has now with the sni It will. How do you

:17:41. > :17:47.know that? Because the reality is that we will... We run a massive

:17:48. > :17:53.deficit with the European Union. We are a really important market to

:17:54. > :17:58.them. 2.5% of German exports is dealing with the UK. We export 44%

:17:59. > :18:04.of British stuff to them. They export, sorry 7% of stuff to

:18:05. > :18:11.Britain. But the trend is... The trend is 55% is going outside the

:18:12. > :18:18.European Union. Jules, hang on, hang on, hang on. Can you officiate here,

:18:19. > :18:22.please? It is still a lot of each sides, it is just bantering all the

:18:23. > :18:27.time. We never seem to get any hard facts. Do you know what I really

:18:28. > :18:30.want to hear is the probability of something happening or something not

:18:31. > :18:34.happening because we keep, the politicians just keep using the

:18:35. > :18:41.words, "Could and may." Let me tell you all... It is honest. It is not

:18:42. > :18:46.informative because we are on the sixth floor of this building now and

:18:47. > :18:52.this floor could give way at any moment. It is not a proper fact. We

:18:53. > :18:56.need to know the probability of these things happening so we can

:18:57. > :19:00.make informed decisions. Do you think the campaigners have risen to

:19:01. > :19:06.the occasion? No. Not at all. Not at all. I've listened closely to both

:19:07. > :19:09.sides and quite frankly I'm appalled at the backwards and forwards

:19:10. > :19:14.shouting at each other. They are not telling you anything.

:19:15. > :19:19.APPLAUSE When I came here today I had a

:19:20. > :19:23.question to ask and it was to both sides, the Remain said, if we stay

:19:24. > :19:29.in Europe or if we come out of Europe, you're going to lose as a

:19:30. > :19:33.family ?4300 every year. You're going to lose ?1,000 each year on

:19:34. > :19:39.your mortgage. You're going to have to pay ?330 or ?350 every time you

:19:40. > :19:47.travel. Please explain why you get the figures. On this side you say to

:19:48. > :19:56.me, well, we get ?350 billion back if we come out. Billion. ?250

:19:57. > :20:00.million... A week. A week. I beg your pardon. Billion, millions, you

:20:01. > :20:05.know, but at the end of the day, it is a big sum of money. Please

:20:06. > :20:09.explain it. I want to know where you get your figures from. How you work

:20:10. > :20:12.it out and please explain your argument to us because I'm not

:20:13. > :20:14.getting it. APPLAUSE

:20:15. > :20:19.I'm going to both sides the opportunity to give, if possible,

:20:20. > :20:27.just two facts, facts, two facts. OK? Who would like to go first

:20:28. > :20:35.Remain or Leave? Go for it Leave. Facts. I have said before, net ?8.5

:20:36. > :20:41.billion a year. That is what we pay net to the European Union. When you

:20:42. > :20:45.look at our social services, you look at our National Health Service,

:20:46. > :20:51.our education, everything, that money can be better spent at home in

:20:52. > :21:00.this country looking after the people that we have here. OK. Pause.

:21:01. > :21:06.Hang on. Hang on. What is your name? We need a microphone. Victoria just

:21:07. > :21:12.wanted facts. You're not answering my question. The fact is... Victoria

:21:13. > :21:21.wanted a fact. That's a fact. How did you get to the figure?

:21:22. > :21:27.Second fact. So ?8.5 billion is what Britain contributed to the EU in

:21:28. > :21:32.2014. That is a fact. Next fact. The second fact and you're not going to

:21:33. > :21:37.like this fact, but it is a fact that none of the politicians can

:21:38. > :21:43.actually deny, there are no answers to this at this moment in time.

:21:44. > :21:49.There are no guarantees. All I know, all I know, that is a fact, is if we

:21:50. > :21:57.stay in, there will be more legislation, and it is we are

:21:58. > :22:00.sending a mandate for more interference in our own Government

:22:01. > :22:04.and we will get dragged into the euro and this gentleman... Hang on,

:22:05. > :22:08.that's not a fact that we will get dragged into the euro. You've

:22:09. > :22:16.strayed from fact into... Hang on. Shush. Two facts from the Remain

:22:17. > :22:18.side. Facts. This woman asked about why travel costs in Europe would go

:22:19. > :22:21.up. It is very, very straightforward. At the moment if

:22:22. > :22:25.you need emergency care when you're travelling in Europe, you can just

:22:26. > :22:33.go to a hot and then our Government is billed for that care. If we come

:22:34. > :22:42.out, if we come out, we will need to have travel insurance. Because there

:22:43. > :22:48.is, because there is an agreement. OK. OK. OK. Hang on. Hang on. Hang

:22:49. > :22:53.on. Hang on. Please don't shout. Yvette Cooper,

:22:54. > :22:56.two facts, please. We know in the first few years while everything is

:22:57. > :22:59.in chaos and all the deals are trying to be negotiated, we know,

:23:00. > :23:02.there will be a huge uncertainty for businesses. We know a lot of them

:23:03. > :23:06.will pull back on their investment, why would you invest when you don't

:23:07. > :23:09.know what the trade deals are going to be? We know there is a

:23:10. > :23:15.significant risk of going into recession. A significant risk of job

:23:16. > :23:19.losses in the first two years. It is not a number, I can't put a number

:23:20. > :23:22.on and nobody can guarantee you a number, but you can say 100%

:23:23. > :23:27.likelihood they investment will be hit. That jobs will be hit. And that

:23:28. > :23:31.people's livelihoods will be hit in those first few years.

:23:32. > :23:35.APPLAUSE OK, I want to ask people in the

:23:36. > :23:39.undecided section what they think of the quality of those facts. Hello.

:23:40. > :23:44.Hi, I'm a student at Sheffield University. It is hard to believe

:23:45. > :23:47.the facts from Remain when you had David Cameron who said that the UK

:23:48. > :23:54.can survive outside Europe and has come out and said that the economy

:23:55. > :24:03.would erupt as soon as we leave Europe. Jeremy Corbyn isn't giving

:24:04. > :24:08.us his true views on Europe which is he wants to leave. Yvette Cooper,

:24:09. > :24:14.obviously Jeremy Corbyn isn't here, but as a member of his party, he is

:24:15. > :24:17.your leader, what would you say? He has been campaigning over the

:24:18. > :24:21.country. Are those his true views? Jeremy Corbyn has not been afraid to

:24:22. > :24:24.say his views on all sorts of things even when it is controversialment

:24:25. > :24:27.you can guarantee that he would tell us what he thinks and that's what he

:24:28. > :24:33.has done. APPLAUSE

:24:34. > :24:39.OK. Hang on. Hang on. Yes, hello. I would like to react to what the

:24:40. > :24:46.Conservative MP said. She mentioned, she is a MEP. She used the word

:24:47. > :24:49.interference and the word take ig control and that's something that

:24:50. > :24:53.most of the politicians on the Leave side have been saying. In mined I

:24:54. > :24:58.wonder, does this not translate to running away from accountability?

:24:59. > :25:02.Because we say that the EU interferes in things, but how about

:25:03. > :25:06.simple things like Human Rights? The fact that we enjoy Human Rights come

:25:07. > :25:12.from the fact that we are members of the EU. Hold on. Hold on. When you

:25:13. > :25:22.are not satisfied, when you have looked for solutions in our local

:25:23. > :25:29.courts we can take it to the European Court of Human Rights. Yes,

:25:30. > :25:33.they will make laws as they deem fit and they will make law to say suit

:25:34. > :25:38.themselves. Who will suffer? Every day people like you and me. Every

:25:39. > :25:43.day people like you and me will suffer, yes. So that is why we need

:25:44. > :25:45.to remain. We need to remain because if we leave, we're taking a huge

:25:46. > :25:59.leap into the dark. OK.

:26:00. > :26:03.Pause. Pause. That's why we referred to that side as xenophobic. Thank

:26:04. > :26:12.you. Thank you. Thank you. OK. Right, it is coming up to... Ladies

:26:13. > :26:20.and gentlemen, Clem will you stop shouting, please?

:26:21. > :26:23.Thank you. APPLAUSE

:26:24. > :26:28.It is 10.25am. We have got lots more to discuss. A little more about the

:26:29. > :26:33.campaign and a little more about the scaremongering. Also towards the end

:26:34. > :26:37.of the programme, we're going to ask our 45 undecides here if a miracle

:26:38. > :26:42.has happened and if they have reached a conclusion?

:26:43. > :26:42.Before that, Rebecca Jones has a summary of the latest news

:26:43. > :26:48.headlines. Leading Brexit campaigners have

:26:49. > :26:50.claimed a vote to remain could mean Britain has to pay billions

:26:51. > :26:52.of pounds more towards The Remain campaign says the figures

:26:53. > :26:56.are nonsense and claims the UK would have a veto on any

:26:57. > :26:58.proposed budget increase. Both sides have been setting out

:26:59. > :27:14.their arguments on this programme. I love Europe. What I'm worried

:27:15. > :27:18.about is this xenophobic group over here. Why do you say they are

:27:19. > :27:23.xenophobic? They are going to take away British, our British rights to

:27:24. > :27:27.have visa-free travel, to study in Europe.

:27:28. > :27:32.I resent the accusation that voting for Leave is xenophobic. That is

:27:33. > :27:35.unfair and unjustified. APPLAUSE

:27:36. > :27:37.Everything I have, I have because of immigration and I'm not

:27:38. > :27:39.anti-immigration. I'm in favour of it. What I am against is

:27:40. > :27:43.uncontrolled, mass immigration. Scientists in the United States have

:27:44. > :27:46.begun using a controversial technique to create human organs,

:27:47. > :27:49.by growing them inside pigs. Critics have expressed ethical

:27:50. > :27:55.concerns about the project, by a research team at the University

:27:56. > :27:57.of California which involves injecting human stem

:27:58. > :27:59.cells into pig embryos. The aim is to produce a pancreas

:28:00. > :28:06.suitable for a human transplant. The body of Muhammad Ali has

:28:07. > :28:08.arrived in his hometown The boxing legend

:28:09. > :28:14.died at the weekend. His family accompanied the coffin

:28:15. > :28:16.as it was driven in a convoy His funeral will take place

:28:17. > :28:21.there on Friday, when former US President Bill Clinton

:28:22. > :28:29.will deliver a eulogy. At least three people have been

:28:30. > :28:32.killed and nine injured in a crash involving two trains in eastern

:28:33. > :28:34.Belgium. Some of the injured

:28:35. > :28:39.are critically hurt. The accident happened when a

:28:40. > :28:41.high-speed passenger service crashed into the back of a goods train

:28:42. > :28:44.near the city of Liege An eyewitness said two carriages had

:28:45. > :28:51.been completely destroyed. A new study suggests that women

:28:52. > :28:53.who have had breast cancer could benefit from staying

:28:54. > :28:55.on hormone blocking drugs That's more than double the number

:28:56. > :28:59.of years they're The US study found that long-term

:29:00. > :29:06.use of the drugs could cut the risk However, there are also warnings

:29:07. > :29:14.about the drugs' side effects. That's a summary of the latest news.

:29:15. > :29:23.Now the sport. Thank you, Rebecca. Good morning.

:29:24. > :29:28.Andy Murray's first French Open final ended in defeat. He was beaten

:29:29. > :29:32.in four sets by Novak Djokovic who claimed his first title in Paris and

:29:33. > :29:37.he becomes only the eighth player in the Open era to win all four Grand

:29:38. > :29:44.Slam and the first since 1969 to hold them all at the same time.

:29:45. > :29:53.Wales ended their preparations for euro 2016 on an under whelming note.

:29:54. > :29:56.They were beaten 3-0 in Sweden. Jamie vrdy is expected to decide

:29:57. > :29:59.whether he will join Arsenal from Leicester City later this morning.

:30:00. > :30:06.The decision is expected to be made before he flies out with the England

:30:07. > :30:16.squad to France for Euro 2016 at 11.30am. Mo Farah broke the diamond

:30:17. > :30:19.league record. He recorded a time of 7 minutes 32.66 seconds to break the

:30:20. > :30:21.long-standing record by a tenth of a second. That's all the sport. Back

:30:22. > :30:48.to Victoria. What we have heard today is that

:30:49. > :30:54.quite a number of people, particularly in the undecided

:30:55. > :30:57.section feel weighed down by the responsibility of this vote and they

:30:58. > :30:59.do not know what to do and they want to make the right decision, but they

:31:00. > :31:05.do not know what it should be. I'm sure most of us

:31:06. > :31:08.have talked about it Jo-Ann and Stuart Clutton,

:31:09. > :31:23.you're split, aren't you? How long have you been married? 30.

:31:24. > :31:27.Congratulation. It is a sentence! It is not a sentence, he looks like a

:31:28. > :31:41.genial kind of guy, but you are split. To be honest, I am appalled

:31:42. > :31:45.at this morning. I am sorry. I was undecided towards leave, but just

:31:46. > :31:51.hearing everybody, it is a slanging match. Everybody is shouting each

:31:52. > :31:59.other down. This is very important to us. We have a son as well, it is

:32:00. > :32:04.his future, not just ours, and it is extremely important we get this

:32:05. > :32:09.right. I would rather people turn around and say, we cannot guarantee

:32:10. > :32:13.this or that, but not to shout each other down like what has been

:32:14. > :32:19.happening this morning. I do believe you should use your vote. People

:32:20. > :32:25.have lost their lives in the past, so you should use your vote. Quite

:32:26. > :32:31.honestly at this moment in time I do not want to vote because I really do

:32:32. > :32:37.not know which way to go. I am even more undecided than I was before I

:32:38. > :32:45.walked into this room. IDs the kind of you have in the kitchen? Every

:32:46. > :32:51.night. I have to say I have been yes right from the beginning, but today

:32:52. > :32:55.has demonstrated it does become a slanging match and it is an

:32:56. > :33:02.important decision and people should vote. Because the stakes are so

:33:03. > :33:07.high? To reinforce my view I have heard nothing from the league side

:33:08. > :33:16.that would change my mind completely. As your husband tried to

:33:17. > :33:20.persuade you to go to remain? No, we have both got our own minds and we

:33:21. > :33:29.both make up our own minds and I have not seen anything from either

:33:30. > :33:48.I am a self-employed counsellor working in two schools. And who is

:33:49. > :33:53.this lady over here? I am Erica and I have worked in education before I

:33:54. > :33:58.retired. I am a mother of two and children can make their own

:33:59. > :34:02.decisions. We are grandparents to five children and this is a very

:34:03. > :34:06.important decision because we are voting on their future and that is

:34:07. > :34:13.what has convinced me to remain. How long have you been married? Firstly,

:34:14. > :34:21.I would like to apologise, I have been shouting. We have been married

:34:22. > :34:26.for 38 years. It has not been disrespectful, it is purely out of

:34:27. > :34:29.frustration. It is borne out a lot of one-sided arguments were all we

:34:30. > :34:35.are getting is scaremongering tactics and nobody is allowed to

:34:36. > :34:40.reply the facts and when facts are presented, they are dismissed as not

:34:41. > :34:45.factual. The evidence is there and you can research on the Internet.

:34:46. > :34:52.Can I replied, Victoria? You certainly can. Can I just say thank

:34:53. > :34:55.you to the BBC for putting on programmes like this where the

:34:56. > :35:00.public can have a voice, even if we have shouted. We have made a

:35:01. > :35:07.commitment to each other to disagree agreeably. Yes, we have, and we do,

:35:08. > :35:16.each day. So you still love each other? Very much so, even after 38

:35:17. > :35:22.years. Can I raise a question about travel insurance? I'd pay mega

:35:23. > :35:28.travel insurance to travel to Europe because I have got a heart

:35:29. > :35:33.condition. I had a heart attack ten years ago. If I want to travel in

:35:34. > :35:42.Britain, it costs me nothing. But I have to pay four times to travel in

:35:43. > :35:47.Europe. If I want to travel further, it costs me more. But I also have to

:35:48. > :35:54.pay an excess. Staying in Europe does nothing for me. Mary on Twitter

:35:55. > :35:58.says, I am watching your programme today and the behaviour of some of

:35:59. > :36:04.the audience members is disgusting. Sarah says, I cannot believe why

:36:05. > :36:09.articular and decent adults behave in such a manner. Susannah says, the

:36:10. > :36:14.Brexit side seemed to be so aggressive. Score on twitter says,

:36:15. > :36:20.stopped the shouting and bickering, this is a national debate. Rees

:36:21. > :36:31.says, I tuned in thinking I was watching the Jeremy Kyle show! Let's

:36:32. > :36:37.talk about security because that is a serious issue, and let's start on

:36:38. > :36:46.the Remain Campaign site. What is the evidence Great Britain would be

:36:47. > :36:57.safer if we stayed in? We do a lot of cooperation with Interpol and

:36:58. > :37:05.Europol and a lot of people have been deported to stand justice. We

:37:06. > :37:11.also deal with people traffickers and online crime and so many serious

:37:12. > :37:14.crimes that affect us now. If we did not have those partnerships with

:37:15. > :37:21.other European countries, that would make as we can. We have got the

:37:22. > :37:25.heads of MI5 and MI6 and the top police chiefs and the Nato Secretary

:37:26. > :37:29.General have also said we would be stronger if we stayed part of

:37:30. > :37:36.Europe. And what is the evidence that the UK would be safer if

:37:37. > :37:40.Britain leaves the EU? The former head of MI6 himself said it would

:37:41. > :37:44.not impact and we would be safer and more secure when we leave the

:37:45. > :37:51.European Union. The former head of Interpol has said that the Schengen

:37:52. > :37:55.area, it was basically a passport free zone for terrorists to commit

:37:56. > :38:01.crimes and escaped. That comes all the way up to our borders and we

:38:02. > :38:05.would be more secure if we came out. I mentioned earlier about the

:38:06. > :38:09.supremacy of the European Court. It is trying to overrule our

:38:10. > :38:14.intelligence agencies in the actions they are able to take in terms of

:38:15. > :38:19.confronting terrorism and that was undermining security for the UK. The

:38:20. > :38:24.first thing we do when we leave would be to make sure that the

:38:25. > :38:28.European Court could not overrule us in terms of the security and the

:38:29. > :38:35.intelligence they receive, we need to have full control here in the UK.

:38:36. > :38:41.You quoted a former spy chief and a former head of Interpol. You know

:38:42. > :38:47.the body of opinion that says we are safer in the EU is pretty

:38:48. > :38:53.overwhelming. The Prime Minister, the Defence Secretary, five ex head

:38:54. > :38:59.of Nato, former head of MI5 and MI6, the former head of Britain's despite

:39:00. > :39:01.industry, many people with many years of experience protecting

:39:02. > :39:08.British citizens and people around the world, do you accept that body

:39:09. > :39:13.of is overwhelming? I quoted you people who set the exact opposite.

:39:14. > :39:17.We need to have control over our borders to make us more secure. We

:39:18. > :39:24.ask for more control and they say no. We cannot stop the Schengen zone

:39:25. > :39:29.having that check free zone where they can come and go as they please.

:39:30. > :39:36.It basically comes right up to us. That brings the pressure up to our

:39:37. > :39:41.borders in the UK. We are already out the Schengen zone, so we can do

:39:42. > :39:46.border checks on our border. The border controls we currently have in

:39:47. > :39:53.Calais, thanks to the French and the agreement across Europe, will move

:39:54. > :39:57.back to Dover and it harder. That is a bilateral agreement between the UK

:39:58. > :40:03.and France and that will continue, it is not an EU agreement. That is

:40:04. > :40:08.scaremongering. Why would you take that risk? Why would you go against

:40:09. > :40:13.the advice of the top police chiefs whose job it is to keep us safe

:40:14. > :40:18.right now. They tell us to do that, why would we vote to make their jobs

:40:19. > :40:24.harder? We should be able to make the borders secure here in the UK. I

:40:25. > :40:28.am Tom from Altrincham and I study politics at the University of

:40:29. > :40:35.Sheffield. I want to talk about the European arrest warrant. Taking

:40:36. > :40:37.people from one country and putting them into another country is

:40:38. > :40:43.completely against everything we stand for. Secondly, it seems

:40:44. > :40:49.elementary that if we cannot control our own borders and we have not got

:40:50. > :40:53.an Australian style points system in place, we cannot stop criminals from

:40:54. > :40:57.coming into the country. How does that make us safer at all when we

:40:58. > :41:05.cannot control our own borders? It is elementary. We can deny entry to

:41:06. > :41:14.EU citizens who pose a threat to security or public health. Not all

:41:15. > :41:21.of them. We have problems with the potatoes, including Abu Hamza and's

:41:22. > :41:24.daughter-in-law. This is outrageous. We have extradition warrants across

:41:25. > :41:32.the world, it is not just a European thing. I do not get the problem. Why

:41:33. > :41:36.don't we have extradition warrants? If we lose it, that is 7000 people

:41:37. > :41:40.we would not have been able to deport over the last few years.

:41:41. > :41:46.People should have to face justice when they are accused of a crime in

:41:47. > :41:50.a country. They should not be able to flee across borders and escape

:41:51. > :41:58.justice. They should be able to face it. My name is Lloyd and I am

:41:59. > :42:04.currently finishing a PhD in nuclear physics. I do not understand why

:42:05. > :42:08.there is so much concern about security and threats of terrorism.

:42:09. > :42:15.If you look at the statistics, there is a one in 8000 chance you will be

:42:16. > :42:20.hit by a car today. There is a one in 9,200,000 chance that you will be

:42:21. > :42:24.involved in a terrorist attack. Why are we taking such an important

:42:25. > :42:29.decision about something that is so unlikely. The question about the

:42:30. > :42:34.European Court of Human Rights, there is nothing that you are saying

:42:35. > :42:42.today that can attract those statements. I am Adam and I am from

:42:43. > :42:47.Warrington. One of the reasons I am undecided is one of the reasons we

:42:48. > :42:51.have been talking about. It is regarding information. I was a

:42:52. > :42:57.special police constable in Lancashire for about ten years.

:42:58. > :43:02.Every single day I came into work was the intelligence side. We use to

:43:03. > :43:07.get loads of intelligence about criminals from France, Germany or

:43:08. > :43:14.Spain who came over to England. With that stop if Britain left? That is

:43:15. > :43:19.one of my concerns, but I cannot see that being truthful. There is no way

:43:20. > :43:26.that if we left the UK that Germany, France and Spain are going to say,

:43:27. > :43:29.you have left, we will not give you any more information. The argument

:43:30. > :43:33.from the Leave Campaign is they might not give us so much

:43:34. > :43:39.information. They might not give us the volume and the quality that

:43:40. > :43:45.people say we get at the moment. If that was 100% yes or no, I would be

:43:46. > :43:52.on that side. As a special police Constable it was fantastic. We have

:43:53. > :43:59.the best intelligence people in Europe. There is no way that we

:44:00. > :44:05.would not share information. If you have information about a terrorist

:44:06. > :44:10.threat, you will share that with other countries. There is no way

:44:11. > :44:14.that Germany won out a terrorist event is going to happen in the UK

:44:15. > :44:21.and will not tell us about that. I do not think anyone has suggested

:44:22. > :44:27.that. I am Michael from Dover. I just recently qualified as a train

:44:28. > :44:30.driver. One of the point I want to raise is what Yvette Cooper said

:44:31. > :44:36.about the European arrest warrant an extradition warrant. Why can't we

:44:37. > :44:40.have both? Surely it must be in the interest of European countries and

:44:41. > :44:44.member states to have the European arrest warrant and extradition

:44:45. > :44:53.warrant? Why can't we continue with that agreement, but the outside the

:44:54. > :44:57.EU? You would have to renegotiate a whole new legal basis for it and the

:44:58. > :45:01.same with intelligence sharing. You would need a legal framework to do

:45:02. > :45:07.it, otherwise things would not stand up in court. Many of the leave

:45:08. > :45:11.campaigners thinks we should not. You may think we should, and I

:45:12. > :45:16.agree, I think we should keep those things in place, but others think we

:45:17. > :45:19.should not and you would have to go through years of uncertainty, trying

:45:20. > :45:23.to re-establish those frameworks which took a long time to get

:45:24. > :45:27.established in the first place. I do not think we should take the risk of

:45:28. > :45:31.our security of starting all over again.

:45:32. > :45:37.We are going to talk about sovereignty and democracy in a

:45:38. > :45:41.second. Just have a think about what you want to say on that. Regard that

:45:42. > :45:48.European Arrest Warrant, why would we have to start the negotiation

:45:49. > :45:51.again? You have to have the laws would be passed, they would have to

:45:52. > :45:56.be agreed in Europe and they would have to be agreed in Britain. Over

:45:57. > :45:58.the last two years there has been a big debate around Parliament with

:45:59. > :46:01.the Conservative MPs in Parliament arguing we should rip up the

:46:02. > :46:04.European Arrest Warrant. It is not straightforward. It is not everybody

:46:05. > :46:08.agrees. This is just obvious. I think it is obvious. A lot of police

:46:09. > :46:12.officers across the country think it is obvious, but the danger is we

:46:13. > :46:18.would put so much of that at risk if we pulled out. All right, OK. Right,

:46:19. > :46:25.hello. Good morning. Good morning. How are you? My name is Keith. I'm

:46:26. > :46:31.from Middleton just north of Manchester. I want to make a point

:46:32. > :46:38.about democracy particularly to the undecideds here. Economics is here,

:46:39. > :46:40.but it is surely not more important than the principle that under pins

:46:41. > :46:49.everything which is democracy. APPLAUSE? If we vote to stay in, how

:46:50. > :46:54.can we ever talk to anybody again about the benefits and principles of

:46:55. > :46:59.democracy when we are bidsily voting them away to four levels of

:47:00. > :47:06.unelected bureaucratic, nobodies that I don't know in the EU? How can

:47:07. > :47:13.we do that and still claim that we are a democratic country?

:47:14. > :47:17.APPLAUSE How do you respond to that? I have

:47:18. > :47:21.heard a lot about sovereignty in this debate and one of the main

:47:22. > :47:26.reasons that people wanting to leave are state that we should. What's

:47:27. > :47:30.confusing me is why we want to preserve the sovereignty rather than

:47:31. > :47:35.have a great Europe and why we can't have a more democratic EU within the

:47:36. > :47:39.EU? I would like to see, I would like to see is us making change

:47:40. > :47:44.within the EU and making it more democratic. I thought I just made

:47:45. > :47:48.the point... We are only democratic if we are voting our self in this

:47:49. > :47:54.country. If we hand it over to four levels of only one which is elected

:47:55. > :47:58.they can only vote on what the commission proposes, how can you

:47:59. > :48:04.call that democratic? We fought for democracy. We fought for the vote.

:48:05. > :48:08.Our forefathers would be turning in their graves to see us voting away

:48:09. > :48:14.the votes that they fought for. It is absolutely ridiculous.

:48:15. > :48:18.I believe it can be more democratic, but I think we can make that change

:48:19. > :48:23.from staying within so can't we look at how we can make it more

:48:24. > :48:28.democratic inside? I want to check, you are undecided, are you? I am

:48:29. > :48:33.undecided, yes. Hi. Good morning. My name is Jeff and I'm 59 from Salford

:48:34. > :48:37.and I spent 40 years looking after people as a trade unionist. You see

:48:38. > :48:45.want to talk about sovereignty and democracy. Let's talk about

:48:46. > :48:49.democracy, 24% people in this country voted the Government in,

:48:50. > :48:54.which means that 76% didn't vote the Government in. We ended up with a

:48:55. > :48:58.Coalition Government in this country, I don't remember seeing

:48:59. > :49:04.coalition on the ballot form. You want the trade unions to have, can I

:49:05. > :49:07.finish or do you want to keep the empty vessel noise you've done all

:49:08. > :49:11.morning on that side. Go ahead. Sorry about that, but I'm really,

:49:12. > :49:16.really angry, yeah about all the rubbish that's been talked. Let's

:49:17. > :49:23.talk about fact, yeah. Fact, 24% voted a Tory Government in. 76%

:49:24. > :49:29.didn't. Until we oppose first past the post in this country and go to

:49:30. > :49:32.proportional representation, we'll never have a democracy, right.

:49:33. > :49:37.Listen, how many people didn't vote in the last general election? Seven

:49:38. > :49:41.million people who had the vote didn't vote. Don't talk to me about

:49:42. > :49:47.democracy. Yeah. All right. You haven't got a clue about democracy,

:49:48. > :49:50.but as for voting out of Europe, I would readily vote Europe right out

:49:51. > :50:02.of Europe given the chance. Thank you, Jeff. Before we talk to our

:50:03. > :50:05.undecideds again. If you want to pass the microphone around with your

:50:06. > :50:09.final thoughts if you would. My name is Gary. I have an independent

:50:10. > :50:14.financial advisor. One of the jobs thave' got when I'm looking at...

:50:15. > :50:19.Don't make a speech. Is looking at the overall risk. We have heard some

:50:20. > :50:23.interesting things today, but it has been disappointing that the

:50:24. > :50:27.undecideds here have not had sufficient facts, they are not been

:50:28. > :50:34.able to put forward, people on both sides, haven't been able to put

:50:35. > :50:40.forward sufficient facts and I would say the majority of the people here

:50:41. > :50:44.and the undecide have not heard anything much that will actually

:50:45. > :50:48.convince them one way or the other. I think it is very, very sad. Hello.

:50:49. > :50:53.I'm Victor. I'm a retired secondary headteacher. For the last ten years

:50:54. > :50:56.I was in Wythenshawe as a headteacher. We need some measure

:50:57. > :51:03.here there are good points on both sides. I'm in the Remain camp and

:51:04. > :51:07.firmly in that, I voted, I was young once, I voted back in the 70s and

:51:08. > :51:11.I've lived through the European Union expansion. I have seen the

:51:12. > :51:20.good things it has done, clearly, everything has not been good, but

:51:21. > :51:24.certainly, for my sons and for their children when appear, I think being

:51:25. > :51:28.in a European Union that co-operate on economic and migration and also

:51:29. > :51:32.the other measures in terms of workers' rights, and equality,

:51:33. > :51:34.that's what I want to see for the next generation and the generations

:51:35. > :51:37.that follow me. Thank you. Thank you, Victor.

:51:38. > :51:41.APPLAUSE Hang on, we have got a few minutes

:51:42. > :51:46.of the programme remaining and for the last few minutes, let's focus on

:51:47. > :51:49.these 45, just take a seat if you wouldn't mind, take a seat for a

:51:50. > :51:55.second, thank you. These 45 people here in the middle, who are right

:51:56. > :51:58.here at 9am undecided. Some were leaning towards leave, some leaning

:51:59. > :52:03.towards remain, but none had reached a conclusion. And gosh, it seems

:52:04. > :52:07.like days ago now, one of our contributors said they were hoping

:52:08. > :52:12.for a miracle to see if today could help make up their mind. So, I'm

:52:13. > :52:16.going to ask you if you by any chance you have managed to reach

:52:17. > :52:20.some kind of conclusion? If you have, and it is fine if you haven't,

:52:21. > :52:30.but if you have, please stand up now.

:52:31. > :52:34.OK. So most of you are still undecided. That doesn't surprise me!

:52:35. > :52:39.The people who are standing up, would you move to the section,

:52:40. > :52:42.remain here or leave here that represents you. If you go towards

:52:43. > :52:47.the back of the section that now represents you.

:52:48. > :53:07.APPLAUSE Let's hear from some of you. Hello.

:53:08. > :53:13.So you've gone from decided to leave. Tell us, introduce yourself

:53:14. > :53:18.and tell us why? My name is Gemma. I live here in Manchester. I'm a staff

:53:19. > :53:22.nurse in the NHS. APPLAUSE

:53:23. > :53:26.I've mainly been on the fence through the whole debate this year

:53:27. > :53:31.because I've been frightened to death of being demonised as a

:53:32. > :53:37.racist, as a accident owe fob, you know, when you raise the issues

:53:38. > :53:43.about immigration and the effects it has, I can only tell you about my

:53:44. > :53:49.experiences working in the NHS and our services are stretched to

:53:50. > :53:52.breaking point. Absolute breaking point and... Are you saying that's

:53:53. > :54:00.because of the number of Europeans using the NHS? Yes. OK. Can you pass

:54:01. > :54:07.the microphone. Let's hear from somebody who moved from undecided to

:54:08. > :54:10.remain. I'm Jess and a student and bookmaker. The way they have

:54:11. > :54:13.conducted themselves and the way they have gone about things is

:54:14. > :54:18.appalling and I do not want to be associated with that side. I've done

:54:19. > :54:22.a debate like this with 200 young people aged 18 and 20 #25 and they

:54:23. > :54:32.had more respect than all of them put together. You are Across you're

:54:33. > :54:37.appalling. Is there anybody on the leave side

:54:38. > :54:40.who wishes to cross the floor to the remain side and is there anybody on

:54:41. > :54:43.Remain who wishes to cross the floor to the Leave side?

:54:44. > :54:55.I will give you that opportunity right now.

:54:56. > :55:07.Mohamed, are you moving? CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:55:08. > :55:10.OK. Mohamed, briefly, briefly. I still agree that democracy and

:55:11. > :55:13.sovereignty is very important, but the way they've conducted themselves

:55:14. > :55:17.and I think socially, financially, agree with this side more and I will

:55:18. > :55:22.have to say I have always said I would vote out, but the way people

:55:23. > :55:26.are behaving and the talk of immigration, it makes me feel sick.

:55:27. > :55:31.Who is still undecided? All the people here. Yes, hello, why are you

:55:32. > :55:35.still undecided, sir? You see, I have been watching this debate here

:55:36. > :55:44.as well as in the media. And to be honest, what I thought from this

:55:45. > :55:51.side was essentially what Boris Johnson was saying. I'm not wiser

:55:52. > :55:56.today. The politicians normally convince very good. When they can't

:55:57. > :56:01.convince you, they scare you. No facts we know today that make up my

:56:02. > :56:06.mind either way. What do you do for a living, sir? I am a GP. I am a

:56:07. > :56:13.doctor. I have worked for the NHS for 35 years. I wanted to hear the

:56:14. > :56:17.NHS is safe staying in or staying out. There wasn't any chat about the

:56:18. > :56:20.NHS. After economy, after immigration, the most important

:56:21. > :56:24.thing which affects the people here is the NHS. OK.

:56:25. > :56:27.APPLAUSE Pass the microphone behind you. You

:56:28. > :56:34.are still undecided. Sir, tell us why? I'm Sean, I'm from Manchester.

:56:35. > :56:40.The debate is too complex for in or out. That's the choice I am afraid.

:56:41. > :56:46.? It shouldn't be because it is so important. In history, this will be

:56:47. > :56:51.a chapter because it is decisive. If it is a 50/50 vote, there will be

:56:52. > :56:53.lots of unhappy people and that will continue like the Scots and it will

:56:54. > :56:59.continue and it will continue. Cameron should have negotiated

:57:00. > :57:04.better. APPLAUSE

:57:05. > :57:09.Hello. What do you need to hear in the next couple of weeks to help you

:57:10. > :57:13.make up your minds? Basically I can only start with here first. I think

:57:14. > :57:18.some, there were some real facts on the Leave side, but I wasn't

:57:19. > :57:23.convinced a in the sense that a lot of the stuff that was spoken about,

:57:24. > :57:31.it implies a lot of immigration issues. That is the catalyst for

:57:32. > :57:36.some of the leaving. That's my perception of it. OK. So on the day,

:57:37. > :57:41.on 23rd June, how are you going to make up your mind, briefly?

:57:42. > :57:47.I'm still open. Very open. I might not even vote.

:57:48. > :57:51.Oh my gosh, really? Wow. OK. OK. I'm going to pause there, ladies and

:57:52. > :57:57.gentlemen. I am going to thank you very, very much for your

:57:58. > :58:09.contributions today. I want to thank our guests as well.

:58:10. > :58:16.APPLAUSE Do give yourself a huge round of

:58:17. > :58:20.applause. Have a good day. We're back tomorrow at 9.15am.

:58:21. > :58:24.APPLAUSE