27/06/2016

:00:13. > :00:13.It's going to be a very busy morning.

:00:14. > :00:16.The Chancellor George Osborne says leaving the EU won't be plain

:00:17. > :00:20.sailing, but "robust contingency plans" are in place.

:00:21. > :00:25.Leave campaigner Boris Johnson to say there's actually "no

:00:26. > :00:27.great rush" to get out of the European Union, and Jeremy

:00:28. > :00:30.Corbyn is still insisting he won't be quitting as Labour Party

:00:31. > :00:33.leader, despite having lost well over a dozen of his top team

:00:34. > :00:47.More extraordinary drama in Downing Street as David Cameron and Boris

:00:48. > :00:52.Johnson meet face-to-face for the first time since the referendum. The

:00:53. > :00:54.Chancellor tells the city, don't panic, but there is going to be

:00:55. > :00:58.paying. -- pain. Over the course of the programme,

:00:59. > :01:00.we'll look at what's happening with the Labour Party,

:01:01. > :01:03.we'll look at the candidates for the next Tory Party leader,

:01:04. > :01:05.we'll hear about a reported increase in racist incidents since

:01:06. > :01:17.the referendum results. What are you thinking today? I voted

:01:18. > :01:20.to leave the EU. The whole thing feels like chaos at the moment with

:01:21. > :01:23.the Labour Party and the Conservatives are where they are. I

:01:24. > :01:29.didn't vote that leave the United Kingdom. Would it change the way I

:01:30. > :01:34.voted? Don't think it would. I voted to

:01:35. > :01:38.remain in the European Union. I'm ready devastated that we are going

:01:39. > :01:42.to be leaving and worried about the effect it will have on the prospects

:01:43. > :01:43.of young people and the consequences for the political system, our

:01:44. > :01:51.society, and the economy. Hello, welcome to the programme.

:01:52. > :01:56.We're live until 11 this morning. Throughout the programme we'll bring

:01:57. > :02:00.you up to date with the latest developments as they happen and,

:02:01. > :02:02.of course, we want If you voted leave -

:02:03. > :02:07."There's no great rush to leave", according to Boris Johnson,

:02:08. > :02:10.the head of the Leave campaign - Are you coming to terms

:02:11. > :02:15.with the outcome? And if you text, you will be charged

:02:16. > :02:20.at the standard network rate. Our top story today -

:02:21. > :02:23.The Chancellor George Osborne has made his first address

:02:24. > :02:26.since the referendum decision He said he wanted to reassure

:02:27. > :02:31.the British people that the British economy was fundamentally strong

:02:32. > :02:33.and highly competitive. Britain, said Mr Osborne,

:02:34. > :02:35.was open for business, and he didn't want the UK

:02:36. > :02:39.to turn its back on Europe. His statement came as the currency

:02:40. > :02:49.and share markets saw further dips. The pound steadied. There have been

:02:50. > :02:51.falls on the global markets overnight.

:02:52. > :02:53.It's also against a background of political turmoil -

:02:54. > :02:55.with Labour's top team in open revolt against Jeremy Corbyn,

:02:56. > :02:57.and senior Tories beginning the machinations to choose

:02:58. > :03:01.a new party leader and Prime Minister.

:03:02. > :03:08.Let's speak to our political guru Norman Smith at Downing Street.

:03:09. > :03:16.We have been waiting to hear from George Osborne since the result. We

:03:17. > :03:22.now have. Tell us more about what he said? His mission today was to try

:03:23. > :03:24.to calm the markets amid fears of potential panic as the city got to

:03:25. > :03:31.grips with the implications of Brexit. He said, don't worry, we

:03:32. > :03:35.talked through contingency plans. The Bank of England have got ample

:03:36. > :03:40.reserves. George Osborne said he had been on the blower to chief

:03:41. > :03:42.executives, two other central bankers, to the US Treasury

:03:43. > :03:49.Department. Things are under control. But, and there is a but,

:03:50. > :03:53.there will have to be pain. Mr Osborne said he did not resile, he

:03:54. > :03:57.did not backtrack from any of the things he said in the run-up to this

:03:58. > :04:03.referendum, namely that the public finances are going to take a hit.

:04:04. > :04:07.However, he suggested there might be some breathing space. They will not

:04:08. > :04:12.be an Emergency Budget within days. Instead, he suggested, that could be

:04:13. > :04:14.put on hold until the autumn when a new Tory leader is in place. Have a

:04:15. > :04:22.listen to what he said. There will be an adjustment in our

:04:23. > :04:27.economy because every decision the British people have taken. I respect

:04:28. > :04:30.that decision and we will get on and deliver on that decision. But the

:04:31. > :04:36.impact on our economy will have an impact on public finances. Given the

:04:37. > :04:39.delay in triggering Article 50, given the decision by the Prime

:04:40. > :04:43.Minister to hand over to a successor, I think it is perfectly

:04:44. > :04:44.sensible to wait for a new Prime Minister before we determine what

:04:45. > :04:53.that action is. The backdrop to this is the Tory

:04:54. > :04:57.leadership. That the correct one thing which I got wrong. Boris

:04:58. > :05:03.Johnson is not going to be at Cabinet today because it is not a

:05:04. > :05:08.political cabinet. All the questions now are who, if anyone, can stop

:05:09. > :05:12.Boris? People in Downing Street say they are not part of a get Boris

:05:13. > :05:15.campaign, there will be no recriminations, no revenge, the

:05:16. > :05:21.Prime Minister will adopt a neutral approach in this contest. In the

:05:22. > :05:26.wings, waits Theresa May. See is expected to announce she will stand

:05:27. > :05:29.against Boris later this week. But the momentum building up behind

:05:30. > :05:34.Boris is immense. Indeed, speaking to some of those who were frankly --

:05:35. > :05:38.would frankly prefer to vote for a dead sheep rather than foreign --

:05:39. > :05:41.Boris Johnson, therein some despair this morning because they feel

:05:42. > :05:46.George Osborne and his supporters are about to throw their weight

:05:47. > :05:50.behind Boris Johnson, which would make him almost unstoppable. This

:05:51. > :05:54.morning, Michael Gove, when he emerged from his house, he was

:05:55. > :06:00.sounding quite comforted. He was making warm words about what the

:06:01. > :06:08.Chancellor had said. You supporting forest to be Prime

:06:09. > :06:10.Minister? I'm looking forward to the Prime Minister's statement today. I

:06:11. > :06:18.find the Chancellor's words very reassuring. I think this statement

:06:19. > :06:24.provided the reassurance people need and I'm looking forward to hearing

:06:25. > :06:29.from the Prime Minister later. Many Tory MPs say that whoever takes

:06:30. > :06:33.over has to be a Brexiteer. It would be incredible if they want not. If

:06:34. > :06:38.that was the case, who is the biggest Brexiteer in town? Yes, one

:06:39. > :06:46.Boris Johnson. What is happening with Labour? Well, you know, it is

:06:47. > :06:51.weird. One party is in carnage mode and the other party is in carnage

:06:52. > :06:55.mode. Jeremy Corbyn this morning is hunkering down. He is basically

:06:56. > :07:00.taking on allcomers. In the past hour and he has replaced all of

:07:01. > :07:05.those shadow cabinet members who resigned yesterday. I suppose the

:07:06. > :07:09.most interesting appointments are Emily Thornberry, who becomes the

:07:10. > :07:13.new Shadow Foreign Secretary, Diane Abbott moves to health. The word

:07:14. > :07:19.from Team Corbyn is he is going nowhere. This as more resignations

:07:20. > :07:24.this morning, not from the shadow cabinet, further down the train.

:07:25. > :07:30.What will become critical for Mr Corbyn visit some of the Labour left

:07:31. > :07:34.now start to abandon him. If his own people started to leave. That is

:07:35. > :07:39.what the plotters are hoping, that this revolt spreads beyond the

:07:40. > :07:43.discontents to the shores of Gorgon's don't count. That may well

:07:44. > :07:51.determine whether Mr Corbyn survives or not.

:07:52. > :07:54.-- Corbyn's home camp. Thank you, Norman. We will talk to some

:07:55. > :07:57.supporters of Mr Corbyn in the next couple of minutes and some from his

:07:58. > :08:03.own party who want him to go right now. Financial markets continue to

:08:04. > :08:09.react to the Brexit vote. The value of the pound is steadying this

:08:10. > :08:13.morning. Kamal Ahmed is here. Steadying because of what George

:08:14. > :08:18.Osborne said? I think a little bit. I think we have moved from Project

:08:19. > :08:22.Fear, the allegation against George Osborne before the referendum, when

:08:23. > :08:28.he said there would be economic chaos after the vote, if we voted to

:08:29. > :08:32.leave, which obviously we have. Remember, he warned there would be

:08:33. > :08:37.an emergency Budget, there would be ?30 billion of tax rises and public

:08:38. > :08:42.sector cuts. Today he came out to try and give reassurance that the

:08:43. > :08:56.economy, over again. I think we are seeing

:08:57. > :09:01.very clearly from both Mark Carney, who spoke on Friday, and George

:09:02. > :09:06.Osborne this morning, it was very unusual for the chance to make a

:09:07. > :09:09.statement at 7am to reassure the financial markets, that there is a

:09:10. > :09:13.plan in place at least first ability. Whilst we have had the

:09:14. > :09:16.resignation of the Prime Minister. Whilst we have the issues that

:09:17. > :09:20.Labour are battling with, the markets are not only worried about

:09:21. > :09:23.the European Union issue and our relationship with the European

:09:24. > :09:27.Union, they are also worried there will be a general election. That

:09:28. > :09:32.creates greater uncertainty. Although this morning sterling has

:09:33. > :09:35.steadied slightly, there is still a downward trend. Shares in our top

:09:36. > :09:40.businesses are on a downward trajectory. Generally speaking to

:09:41. > :09:43.businesses over the weekend, there is great concern about investment.

:09:44. > :09:49.In the end what is bound to happen to interest rates, people's

:09:50. > :09:54.mortgages, house prices, jobs, all of those things are now in flux. I

:09:55. > :10:01.think one thing worth saying, there are economists to say this is all

:10:02. > :10:05.overblown, the panic. That if we are ambitious and can take the

:10:06. > :10:11.opportunities out there, Britain can become stronger. I think we need to

:10:12. > :10:15.make it clear to people there is another message out there. There are

:10:16. > :10:20.economists like Gerard Lyons riding at the weekend in the summertime --

:10:21. > :10:24.The Sunday Times, former economic adviser to Boris Johnson, said this

:10:25. > :10:27.country can still be great. There may be some short-term Thommo but

:10:28. > :10:32.there will be a rapid boost. Lots of people argue against that. I think

:10:33. > :10:36.George Osborne today is trying to give that feeling of stability.

:10:37. > :10:41.Nothing fundamentally has changed in the UK economy between Thursday and

:10:42. > :10:42.Friday, and so we need to ensure that we continue on that basis.

:10:43. > :10:54.Thank you. Our programme today will be

:10:55. > :10:55.dominated by much of the fallout from the referendum result. Now the

:10:56. > :10:58.rest of the news. Eight children and two adults

:10:59. > :11:00.are being treated in hospital after a rollercoaster derailed

:11:01. > :11:03.and crashed at a theme park Three of the children are in a

:11:04. > :11:09.serious condition. Here's our Scotland Correspondent,

:11:10. > :11:11.Lorna Gordon. The damaged, upturned carriages

:11:12. > :11:12.from a rollercoaster Eyewitnesses said the Tsunami Ride

:11:13. > :11:17.derailed shortly after it set off, before falling 30 feet

:11:18. > :11:22.onto a children's ride close by. I turned around, and all I could see

:11:23. > :11:25.was one of the carriages hurtling towards the ground, on top

:11:26. > :11:28.of one of the other rides, But I'm not sure if anybody

:11:29. > :11:33.was on that ride. But then, once it had landed,

:11:34. > :11:36.all I could see was people stuck, People there said there was silence,

:11:37. > :11:42.followed by screaming, parents, fearful their children

:11:43. > :11:46.were among the injured. Onlookers rushed to

:11:47. > :11:50.free those trapped. Within minutes, they were joined

:11:51. > :11:52.by the emergency services It was quite clearly distressing,

:11:53. > :11:59.the injured are children. The gondolas have been

:12:00. > :12:03.quite seriously damaged. For whatever reason,

:12:04. > :12:05.part or all of them have detached from the rails, causing

:12:06. > :12:11.it to leave the track. Many schools in Scotland have broken

:12:12. > :12:13.up for the summer holidays, and there would have been

:12:14. > :12:16.lots of children here at this theme park when the

:12:17. > :12:18.rollercoaster derailed. It's not the first time there have

:12:19. > :12:21.been problems with rides here, including with the Tsunami

:12:22. > :12:24.Rollercoaster, but this is the most The park has been closed

:12:25. > :12:30.while an investigation has been carried out into what caused

:12:31. > :12:37.the ride to derail. Pope Francis has said

:12:38. > :12:40.the Roman Catholic Church should seek forgiveness from gay people

:12:41. > :12:42.for the way it has treated them. He said the Church had no right

:12:43. > :12:46.to judge, and should show respect. Some conservative Catholics have

:12:47. > :12:50.criticised his comments, which came as millions attended gay

:12:51. > :12:56.pride festivals around the world. The acting Prime Minister of Spain,

:12:57. > :12:59.Mariano Rajoy, says his party has reclaimed the right to govern

:13:00. > :13:02.after new elections. His Popular Party won more seats

:13:03. > :13:06.than it did six months ago, but is still short

:13:07. > :13:08.of an overall majority. Mr Rajoy called for an end

:13:09. > :13:30.to the political deadlock. Overwhelming response from you to

:13:31. > :13:37.the result on Thursday, all through the weekend here on BBC News. We

:13:38. > :13:41.have got a group of voters in the studio today. They will be with us

:13:42. > :13:47.throughout the whole programme. There is so much to talk about in

:13:48. > :13:50.terms of what happened on Thursday and the political after-shocks,

:13:51. > :13:57.which just keep on coming. I'm going to review some tweets from people

:13:58. > :14:02.right now. One says, we are really divided. I voted Leave and all of my

:14:03. > :14:05.colleagues are Remainers. I'm going to my office for the first time

:14:06. > :14:14.since the result and I am dreading it. Michael on Twitter is somewhat

:14:15. > :14:18.divided in his family. His family voted out is to stop the immigrants.

:14:19. > :14:26.I'm not even sure they have ever met a foreign person. Gavin says friends

:14:27. > :14:29.stick through your site through thick and thin. If they cannot

:14:30. > :14:34.accept your position, that is tough. And Hamid says he thinks he has

:14:35. > :14:44.fallen out with half the country right now. -- hermit. You made the

:14:45. > :14:50.decision. Do get in touch. You can text or send me an e-mail. Their

:14:51. > :14:53.results are WhatsApp as well. Now Sally with the sport.

:14:54. > :14:55.And the England game tonight isn't getting as much attention as it

:14:56. > :14:59.normally would because there's quite a bit of politics around.

:15:00. > :15:08.I know. Isn't it strange? It is odd to watch all of this from here and

:15:09. > :15:11.to know that tonight, for England, on a normal England's day at a big

:15:12. > :15:12.tournament like this, we would expect to be on your television

:15:13. > :15:23.screens constantly. England have got a win or bust game.

:15:24. > :15:28.Lots of questions over Roy Hodgson and whether or not his contract will

:15:29. > :15:31.be renewed if England were to go out of the Euros and I have really

:15:32. > :15:35.enjoyed watching Iceland, I'm sure everybody has at home, they are the

:15:36. > :15:39.smallest nation in the tournament and their fans are incredible. A lot

:15:40. > :15:43.of fun. They really bring the stadium to life playing every game

:15:44. > :15:47.that they have done. They play England tonight. We're at the

:15:48. > :15:51.knock-out stages. We are starting to get to the business end of this.

:15:52. > :15:54.Let's go live to Nice where Olly Foster has been with the England

:15:55. > :16:02.team and can bring us the latest news from within the England camp. I

:16:03. > :16:10.think Olly, you've got sunshine? Well, we've got plenty of it here.

:16:11. > :16:15.Good morning, Sally. A stunning morning here. We've spotted Roy

:16:16. > :16:21.Hodgson. It is a beautiful part of the world. Certainly worse places to

:16:22. > :16:26.play football. It is win or bust. England in a knock-out in a match

:16:27. > :16:30.they really should win against Iceland, the lowest ranked nation

:16:31. > :16:35.and the smallest population at the Euros. What a fantastic story for

:16:36. > :16:39.them, but England really can't afford to lose this one, Roy Hodgson

:16:40. > :16:46.would lose his job simply and the questions have been about now how it

:16:47. > :16:49.was an unchanged team and he made the changes and they lost their

:16:50. > :16:53.momentum after winning against Wales and it cost them top spot and what

:16:54. > :16:58.is he going to do with his strikers? We expect hem to revert the same as

:16:59. > :17:08.those Russia and Wales games. Perhaps Daniel Sturridge coming in

:17:09. > :17:12.for Lallana and maybe Stirling. Here is Roy Hodgson's thoughts. I have

:17:13. > :17:17.been happy all the time with the strikers that I've gone with. In a

:17:18. > :17:20.football match you never know exactly how a person is going to

:17:21. > :17:22.play, but you know what you're selecting because you know the

:17:23. > :17:26.players. You work with them every day. You see them in training.

:17:27. > :17:32.You've worked with them for years and you try to choose the best

:17:33. > :17:35.possible players for that game. And I'm fortunate that, if it turns out,

:17:36. > :17:39.that something isn't functioning quite as well as we would like we

:17:40. > :17:47.have a lot of possibilities on the bench to make changes.

:17:48. > :17:50.That's just the conundrum. England have been making lots and lots of

:17:51. > :17:55.chances without putting them away. They scored three in the opening

:17:56. > :17:59.three group matches. Iceland scored four and got five points to get

:18:00. > :18:03.through. They're direct. They say they are expecting England to have

:18:04. > :18:09.the possession, but they are sure that they can case an almighty upset

:18:10. > :18:15.and that's what it would be, Sally. Old European Commission you said it.

:18:16. > :18:25.Olly on the Riff air ra in the sunshine. -- Riveria. Lionel Messi

:18:26. > :18:33.says his international career is over. He is going to retire after

:18:34. > :18:39.Argentina's defeat to Chile. He missed out on an international

:18:40. > :18:43.trophy. His side missed out on penalties. He is quoted as saying,

:18:44. > :18:48."For me the international team is over. It is what hard moment, but it

:18:49. > :18:51.is over with the Argentina team." That was, those are comments that

:18:52. > :18:55.come from him. Very much in the heat of the moment. Just in the aftermath

:18:56. > :18:58.of the game. There is some speculation that it might not be his

:18:59. > :19:01.final decision, but that's what he said in the last couple of hours for

:19:02. > :19:07.him his international career is over. Wow. That seems a shame

:19:08. > :19:12.actually, one of the best players in the world, arguably, if not the

:19:13. > :19:18.best, according to some people. Yes, and aged just 29 as well. I wonder

:19:19. > :19:20.whether he might be a little young to be saying that? Thank you very

:19:21. > :19:30.much, Sally. Cabinet members are arriving in

:19:31. > :19:33.Downing Street. Here is Norman. Justine Greening and Patrick

:19:34. > :19:38.McLaughlin and Michael Fallon. Yes, we wait to see whether they have a

:19:39. > :19:41.plan for getting us out of the EU because critical, of course, is

:19:42. > :19:45.going to be when we trigger the Article 50 and then we might have a

:19:46. > :19:57.clearer idea. Now, I'm just seeing wandering up the path is Sajid

:19:58. > :20:03.Javid. Is there a plan Mr Javid? Any idea what we're going to do? Do you

:20:04. > :20:06.have a master plan for leaving? No, we're not getting any answers

:20:07. > :20:11.this morning. The problem is Boris Johnson is the man who we're looking

:20:12. > :20:16.to formulate a strategy. And he is not in the Cabinet. So in a way, it

:20:17. > :20:20.is a funny limbo situation. I guess what you will get today, they will

:20:21. > :20:24.decide which ministers ought to be involved in trying to pull something

:20:25. > :20:27.together and pull some deal together, everything is on hold, you

:20:28. > :20:30.suspect, until the Tory Party decides who on earth is going to

:20:31. > :20:35.lead them and who is going to lead the Government? You know, we're in

:20:36. > :20:38.this curious limbo state when there are probably a good deal more

:20:39. > :20:42.questions than there are answers and this afternoon, you know, in the

:20:43. > :20:45.even more surreal situation, Mr Cameron appears in the Commons when

:20:46. > :20:49.he has to answer questions about Brexit and about the referendum

:20:50. > :20:53.which is slightly weird because of course, he is not going to be there

:20:54. > :20:56.to carry on the negotiation and he wasn't in favour of Brexit anyway.

:20:57. > :20:59.You know, we are living in very, very strange times.

:21:00. > :21:05.We certainly are. Unprecedented times. Thank you, Norman. Back to

:21:06. > :21:10.you whenever we need to obviously. On Twitter a viewer says this is

:21:11. > :21:14.Sam, "There is a massive office divide. The atmosphere is tense and

:21:15. > :21:19.uncomfortable as people argued all weekend on Facebook." Keep those

:21:20. > :21:23.coming in. Let me know what it is like where you are in your family,

:21:24. > :21:29.in your workplace. The EU referendum result has already

:21:30. > :21:32.cost the Prime Minister his job, but will it cost the Labour

:21:33. > :21:37.leader his too? For the time being Jeremy Corbyn

:21:38. > :21:45.is adamant that he's going nowhere, but a leadership coup is underway,

:21:46. > :21:48.with 16 members of his Shadow Cabinet having left it yesterday

:21:49. > :21:51.at the rate of pretty much Four more have gone this morning and

:21:52. > :22:02.more res ig nations are expected. Here's a quick reminder of how

:22:03. > :22:04.we got to this point. We are saying the

:22:05. > :22:11.Conservatives are the Friends, this is not the speech

:22:12. > :22:15.I wanted to give today. In a couple of hours I will no

:22:16. > :22:20.longer be leading this I recognise that my views

:22:21. > :22:28.on austerity, nuclear weapons on a number of other issues

:22:29. > :22:31.are not with the majority There is a trickle of names coming

:22:32. > :22:36.in for Jeremy Corbyn late in the day, as you say,

:22:37. > :22:39.he has to get 35 by noon, I've calculated he needs

:22:40. > :22:41.eight more, so roughly he needs about a nomination

:22:42. > :22:54.every five minutes. I mean, scraped

:22:55. > :22:55.on with something like Something like ten minutes

:22:56. > :22:59.to go he needed five, five minutes to go he needed three

:23:00. > :23:01.and there were apparently two or three Labour

:23:02. > :23:04.people waiting outside the offices of the Parliamentary Labour Party

:23:05. > :23:11.until the very last minute... What about Hamas' attitude

:23:12. > :23:14.towards gay people? Describing them as a minority

:23:15. > :23:16.of perverts and the mentally and I totally and absolutely

:23:17. > :23:19.disagree with that. I have made my views very clearly

:23:20. > :23:22.known to them as indeed, during a delegation to Iran, where we're

:23:23. > :23:25.talking largely about nuclear issues, I spent the whole week

:23:26. > :23:28.raising human rights issues with the Iranian government and

:23:29. > :23:37.all the other people. The first thing it says

:23:38. > :23:40.is the moronic MPs who nominated Jeremy Corbyn

:23:41. > :23:46.to have a debate need their heads felt, they need their heads

:23:47. > :23:48.felt, they should be And yes, 2015 is not 2007 or 1997.

:23:49. > :23:54.So yes, move on. Jeremy Corbyn has won more than 50%

:23:55. > :24:03.of the votes cast in this round and I am therefore

:24:04. > :24:05.delighted to declare Jeremy Corbyn elected as leader

:24:06. > :24:07.of the Labour Party! it doesn't have to be unfair,

:24:08. > :24:17.poverty is not inevitable, things So I thought my first

:24:18. > :24:29.Prime Minister's Question Time I would do it

:24:30. > :24:33.in a slightly different way and I am sure the Prime Minister

:24:34. > :24:34.would absolutely I sent out an e-mail to thousands

:24:35. > :24:38.of people and asked them what questions they would

:24:39. > :24:41.like to put to the Prime Minister. And I ask one from a woman

:24:42. > :24:51.called Marie... Ayes to the right...

:24:52. > :25:07.397. The noes to the left...

:25:08. > :25:14.223. I've just written to Jeremy Corbyn

:25:15. > :25:17.to resign from the front bench. When an individual like that,

:25:18. > :25:20.my own colleague in a team, is singled out for views I hold

:25:21. > :25:23.myself, I think it's only honorable for myself, also,

:25:24. > :25:27.to leave the front bench. I will go to Parliament

:25:28. > :25:29.ande propose that the British people decide

:25:30. > :25:31.our future in Europe. You are a Nazi apologist.

:25:32. > :25:41.Rewriting history... I think the free movement

:25:42. > :25:46.of labour means that I think the free movement of labour

:25:47. > :25:49.means that you have to balance The Labour Party are

:25:50. > :25:54.overwhelmingly for Because we believe

:25:55. > :25:58.the European Union has brought investment, jobs and protection

:25:59. > :26:00.for workers, consumers and the What is striking listening

:26:01. > :26:03.to him today is he lists almost as many downsides as good

:26:04. > :26:08.sides in the European Union. But now 20 minutes to

:26:09. > :26:10.5 we can now say the decision taken in 1975, by this

:26:11. > :26:13.country, to join the Common Market has been reversed by this referendum

:26:14. > :26:27.to leave the EU. Mr Corbyn, how can you

:26:28. > :26:30.survive in the wake of so many resignations

:26:31. > :26:51.from your front bench? Back to Norman at Downing Street.

:26:52. > :26:55.Hey-hey. Nicky Morgan is walking up. Ms Morgan, are you going to stand

:26:56. > :26:59.for the leadership? She has disappeared behind the car. She is

:27:00. > :27:04.one of the people who has been mooted as a possible contender in

:27:05. > :27:13.the anyone but Boris category? Mr Gove do you have a plan for Brexit?

:27:14. > :27:16.Basically, Vic are looking around for a Stop Boris candidate because

:27:17. > :27:21.the favourite and Theresa May, who I have not seen going in yet unless

:27:22. > :27:25.she went around the back, she usually, very deliberately goes in

:27:26. > :27:29.the front so maybe she has still to arrive the people are looking to her

:27:30. > :27:33.as to whether she might be able to stop Boris of the she is competent

:27:34. > :27:35.if you're going to be developed in detailed, complex negotiations, you

:27:36. > :27:39.want someone that's good at the detail and detail has not always

:27:40. > :27:45.been Boris Johnson's strongest point! There is a view that if we

:27:46. > :27:47.have to get into complicated and difficult negotiations we want

:27:48. > :27:51.someone who is on top of that, who could that be? Maybe that's Theresa

:27:52. > :28:00.May. Here she is. Maybe we can get a shout at her. I knew she would walk

:28:01. > :28:04.down. She does this deliberately. Are you going to stand Mrs May? Are

:28:05. > :28:09.you the stop Boris candidate? Mrs May, are you going to stand?

:28:10. > :28:13.OK, well, she is not saying. She is going to stand, but she is not

:28:14. > :28:18.saying, maybe later this week, maybe on Thursday. Mr Hunt are you going

:28:19. > :28:23.to stand for the leadership? He may, he may not. The contest will come

:28:24. > :28:27.down to Boris versus Theresa May. The interesting dynamic that is

:28:28. > :28:33.happening is that the Chancellor's people seem to be rowing in behind,

:28:34. > :28:38.that's Amber Rudd one of the Remainers who gave Boris a cuff

:28:39. > :28:41.about the chops where she had a That really bruising line about Boris

:28:42. > :28:47.being the life and soul of the party, but not the person you'd want

:28:48. > :28:51.to drive you home! Team Osborne seem to be shifting behind Boris Johnson.

:28:52. > :28:56.Now, that happens, that would seem to me to make it impossible. Are you

:28:57. > :29:00.going to have to compromise over immigration, Mr Hammond?

:29:01. > :29:08.Philip Hammond, you remember, yesterday he signalled that maybe

:29:09. > :29:12.the Brexiteeres are going to have to climb down over immigration. They

:29:13. > :29:18.will have to compromise over movement. Vic, it is all kicking

:29:19. > :29:21.off! Anything could happen here. It is an extraordinary, extraordinary,

:29:22. > :29:25.atmosphere. The whole political affirment is in total and utter

:29:26. > :29:29.turmoil and over arching is all is what happens to Blighty? What is

:29:30. > :29:32.going to happen to Britain? How soon will we be out of the European

:29:33. > :29:36.Union? What will it mean for our economy and what will it mean for

:29:37. > :29:41.people moving to and from Europe? What are the implications, that's

:29:42. > :29:44.why we saw George Osborne coming out this morning and trying to calm down

:29:45. > :29:48.the markets, but significantly saying there is going to have to be

:29:49. > :29:53.pain ahead. The public finances will be hit and he said, "I do not resile

:29:54. > :29:56.from anything I have said." All the warnings he gave about the economic

:29:57. > :30:01.hit we will take, he still believes that. Thank you, for the moment,

:30:02. > :30:07.Norman. Turmoil in the country. Turmoil in the Conservative Party.

:30:08. > :30:16.Turmoil also in the Labour Party. What about their future leadership.

:30:17. > :30:44.Jeremy Corbyn is adamant he is staying put. Yes, he had a big

:30:45. > :30:51.mandate from party members at the leadership election last year. He

:30:52. > :30:56.had a right to lead his party. I felt, after Friday's shadow cabinet,

:30:57. > :31:00.I felt I could not go to my constituents and say I had complete

:31:01. > :31:03.confidence in him to lead the party and to be a potential Prime

:31:04. > :31:08.Minister. We are in the middle of economic and political chaos, the

:31:09. > :31:12.government is not putting up -- coming up with answers to the

:31:13. > :31:17.post-referendum scenario and I felt we needed strong leadership. And he

:31:18. > :31:21.is not a strong leader? I don't think he's the right person to lead

:31:22. > :31:25.us through the current situation. It would be wrong to sit around the

:31:26. > :31:30.Cabinet table pretending I have confidence in him. What do you want

:31:31. > :31:36.the deputy leader, Tom Watson, to say to Mr Corbyn? It is up to Tom to

:31:37. > :31:41.express his own views. If he is speaking on behalf of those of us

:31:42. > :31:47.who have concerns, and Tom was at the shadow Cabinet on Friday as

:31:48. > :31:51.well, I would like to say that he doesn't command the confidence of

:31:52. > :31:59.the Parliamentary Labour Party. He does command the confidence of those

:32:00. > :32:02.who voted for him to be leader. I think that is slightly questionable.

:32:03. > :32:07.I have had quite a lot of people coming to me to say they voted for

:32:08. > :32:10.him last year but they feel that perhaps they were disappointed by

:32:11. > :32:16.his lack of enthusiasm for the Remain campaign during the

:32:17. > :32:26.referendum. You say quite a few, how many? It is difficult to quantify.

:32:27. > :32:30.It is anecdotal. Ten, 50,000? Quite a lot of people. I have not been

:32:31. > :32:34.speaking to thousands of people. But a sample of people I knew who were

:32:35. > :32:40.quite strongly in favour of Jeremy Corbyn. They like Jeremy, they think

:32:41. > :32:48.he is a man of principle, which years. They like what he stands for.

:32:49. > :32:52.Here is Boris Johnson. It is clear now that Project Fear is over. There

:32:53. > :32:57.will not be an emergency budget. People's pensions are safe. The

:32:58. > :33:03.pound is stable, the markets are stable. It is all good news. Hi saw

:33:04. > :33:07.a lot of confusion over the weekend about the status of people living in

:33:08. > :33:12.this country. It is absolutely clear that people from other European

:33:13. > :33:16.countries who live here have their rights protected. All people want to

:33:17. > :33:20.see is a system that is fair, impartial and humane to all people

:33:21. > :33:29.coming from around the world. And also people from around the UK

:33:30. > :33:32.living in the rest of the EU, will have their rights protected. There

:33:33. > :33:40.has been confusion in the media. Thanks a lot, folks.

:33:41. > :33:50.How you going to stand? Mr Johnson, are you going to stand?

:33:51. > :33:54.How can we have access? Boris Johnson, as he leaves his home this

:33:55. > :34:01.morning, trying to reassure people, expressing the view that he has seen

:34:02. > :34:05.a lot of confusion about the status of EU citizens here. That would seem

:34:06. > :34:09.to be true. He also said Project Fear was over. The markets are

:34:10. > :34:16.stable, people's pensions are stable. Clearly a lot of work frame

:34:17. > :34:21.to do. We have just been talking to Kerry McCarthy, who resigned

:34:22. > :34:24.yesterday as Shadow Environment Minister. She does not think our

:34:25. > :34:30.leader, Jeremy Corbyn, is strong enough to take the party forward.

:34:31. > :34:33.Let's speak to Emily Thornberry -- Emily Thornberry, a Jeremy Corbyn

:34:34. > :34:39.supporter, who has been promoted as a result of these wave of

:34:40. > :34:44.resignations to, what are you now? Shadow Foreign Secretary.

:34:45. > :34:47.Congratulations. Thank you. How do you take the views of people like

:34:48. > :34:53.Kerry McCarthy and many others who have resigned in protest at Jeremy

:34:54. > :34:57.Corbyn continuing as leader? Kerry is a colleague of mine but Carrie

:34:58. > :35:01.and I have been friends for decades. We have just come to different

:35:02. > :35:06.conclusions. My view is that at a time of economic turmoil, when I

:35:07. > :35:13.think that the Tories have led us into a dark wood, I think that the

:35:14. > :35:15.government put forward a referendum without a clear idea of what would

:35:16. > :35:21.happen if the British public voted for Brexit, and they don't know what

:35:22. > :35:25.to do next. I think we have got the Brexiteers, Laveau hundred and one

:35:26. > :35:30.ideas. Here we are, they have taken the nation to this place, and now it

:35:31. > :35:33.is the job of the opposition to step up and to have a vision, and to have

:35:34. > :35:42.some ideas and to show a bit of leadership. Now is not the time for

:35:43. > :35:46.the Labour Party to be plunged into turmoil. We have two hold our nerve

:35:47. > :35:50.and think very carefully for the sake of the country as to what

:35:51. > :35:54.happens next. It seems to me that we have to be at the table. We have to

:35:55. > :35:58.be clear about what it is we want for the country. Do you know what?

:35:59. > :36:03.The people who are going to suffer the most are voters, people who have

:36:04. > :36:08.only just got their heads above water will be affected most by this

:36:09. > :36:11.recession I fear will come. Most of the Labour Party at Westminster do

:36:12. > :36:17.not believe Jeremy Corbyn is the right man to do all of that be heart

:36:18. > :36:21.of Labour supporters? We will see what the Parliamentary Labour Party

:36:22. > :36:25.says. The Labour Party is a third of a million people strong. We are

:36:26. > :36:29.Democratic party. It is for the party as a whole to decide the

:36:30. > :36:33.leader is. The fact of the matter is that Jeremy Corbyn, in essence, will

:36:34. > :36:38.be leader of the Labour Party until he decides not to be leader of the

:36:39. > :36:42.Labour Party. He has full support among members. Does it not bother

:36:43. > :36:49.you add all that so many Labour MPs at all -- Pinkie is not the right

:36:50. > :36:54.manager macro he was elected with a mandate of 60%, an extraordinary

:36:55. > :36:59.endorsement. And I don't believe that there has been... I hear what

:37:00. > :37:03.Kerry says, that some members are worried. I understand that. But the

:37:04. > :37:08.vast majority of Labour members want Jeremy to remain as leader. The

:37:09. > :37:13.reason why is because he may well have a different style, he has a

:37:14. > :37:17.different approach, he is an honest and straightforward manner. He gave

:37:18. > :37:21.the European Union seven and a half out of ten, which is actually an

:37:22. > :37:26.honest reflection of what a lot of people think about Europe. Can I ask

:37:27. > :37:31.you how it affects him when so many of his Labour colleagues resigned

:37:32. > :37:35.their positions because they think he is not good enough? It is a

:37:36. > :37:42.horrible job. You do your best and you get all this nonsense. He thinks

:37:43. > :37:46.they are ungrateful, the -- does each are Did I say that? He tries

:37:47. > :37:55.his best and you get all this nonsense. His best is not good

:37:56. > :37:59.enough, they think. He is the leader of the Labour Party. We should stick

:38:00. > :38:02.behind him. We should be a good leadership team. We should make sure

:38:03. > :38:09.that the Labour Party is sticking up for our voters. After the Scottish

:38:10. > :38:12.referendum, the Labour Party turned in on itself instead of reaching out

:38:13. > :38:16.to those people who had voted a different way to how the Labour

:38:17. > :38:20.Party had recommended. That is what we should be doing now, addressing

:38:21. > :38:24.their concerns and making sure that in these negotiations we are not to

:38:25. > :38:29.be in a position until nothing happens until October. The country

:38:30. > :38:33.cannot afford this. We have to be proactive. We have to make sure

:38:34. > :38:38.their concerns are addressed and not be staring -- staring at. A lot of

:38:39. > :38:44.people kicked against the establishment in this field. Now

:38:45. > :38:47.look what we are doing. We're not looking after the interests of the

:38:48. > :38:55.nation, we are just looking after ourselves and what our next job will

:38:56. > :38:59.be. And that is not on. I understand what you are saying in

:39:00. > :39:03.that now was not the time to plunge into civil war. But you are aware

:39:04. > :39:07.you are. Roughly half the Shadow cabinet have walked out the door,

:39:08. > :39:14.that is the equivalent of half the England team refusing to take to the

:39:15. > :39:18.pitch. It is not tenable. You talk about the party members. But at the

:39:19. > :39:23.end of the day surely we are a parliamentary democracy, which means

:39:24. > :39:27.elected representatives deride their authority -- derive their authority

:39:28. > :39:31.from the voters? Not from party members, although they are

:39:32. > :39:34.important. Isn't that the misjudgements Jeremy Corbyn is

:39:35. > :39:37.making in assuming his position is unassailable because he has the

:39:38. > :39:42.backing of party members, when at the end of the day the really

:39:43. > :39:47.critical thing is Labour voters. It is those people that Labour MPs are

:39:48. > :39:51.accountable to. That is why they believe Jeremy Corbyn has to go,

:39:52. > :39:55.because they believe there is no way he can shore up the labour vote and

:39:56. > :40:01.put them in a position to win the next general election. I don't think

:40:02. > :40:05.it is like the England team with half of them refusing to go on the

:40:06. > :40:10.pitch. I think it is a third. And I think it is more like Arsenal. There

:40:11. > :40:14.have been some pretty good reserves that have come onto the pitch

:40:15. > :40:18.instead. It will be fine. The next point is, how we are Parliamentary

:40:19. > :40:22.democracy to of course we are. But the Labour Party at its best is a

:40:23. > :40:28.movement. We are a movement. We are a third of a million people. And of

:40:29. > :40:31.course MPs are accountable to voters and to their members, and to their

:40:32. > :40:37.consciences, and to the party as a whole. But you look at the

:40:38. > :40:41.doomsayers before the council elections and everyone thought it

:40:42. > :40:44.was going to be a disaster. Actually, Labour did better than it

:40:45. > :40:52.had done during the previous parliament. So actually, if you turn

:40:53. > :40:55.to Labour voters, we won every single mayoral election, including

:40:56. > :41:06.fantastically, Kerry's Maher in Bristol. -- mayor. We are building

:41:07. > :41:10.on a strong base. Can Jeremy Corbyn Win a general election if there is

:41:11. > :41:15.one? Is the party stays together and we put forward a plan that will help

:41:16. > :41:22.rescue our country from this potential disaster, of course we can

:41:23. > :41:25.win the election. Kerry McCarthy, can Labour win a general election if

:41:26. > :41:31.there's held this year, with Jeremy Corbyn as leader? As I said earlier,

:41:32. > :41:35.the reason I resigned was because I did not have confidence in his

:41:36. > :41:41.ability to steer us through what, as I said, is the biggest economic and

:41:42. > :41:44.political crisis this country has faced for a long time. I do think we

:41:45. > :41:49.need very strong, strategic leadership. I think that is what the

:41:50. > :41:56.voters are looking for. Let's asked members of the audience.

:41:57. > :42:03.Some of them are Labour supporters. Jeremy Corbyn as leader, should he

:42:04. > :42:08.go now? To introduce yourself. My name is Neil. I voted Remain. I have

:42:09. > :42:11.in the past voted for Labour. I didn't at the last general election

:42:12. > :42:15.because I did not think they were speaking to me then. I absolutely

:42:16. > :42:19.think Jeremy Corbyn should go. On the 16th of June, prior to the

:42:20. > :42:26.referendum, I wrote to my local Labour MP, Meg Hillier, and made it

:42:27. > :42:29.clear that actually Labour's absence, and particularly Jeremy

:42:30. > :42:31.Corbyn's absent in this whole debate, has created a vacuum which

:42:32. > :42:36.has allowed the right to have a voice. I would never support Labour

:42:37. > :42:41.under Jeremy Corbyn. I am a disaffected 52-year-old that

:42:42. > :42:45.actually doesn't know where to go on the political landscape. I'm not

:42:46. > :42:48.going to the right and I'm not going to the left. So who are you speaking

:42:49. > :42:54.to? I fundamentally disagree with you. This is a bad -- about the

:42:55. > :42:58.man's ability to be a leader and he does not demonstrate leadership

:42:59. > :43:04.qualities. I am Alistair and I voted Remain. I think Jeremy Corbyn should

:43:05. > :43:06.go because he was not prepared to share a platform with Conservative

:43:07. > :43:10.figures during the referendum campaign. This is a guy who has

:43:11. > :43:16.shared a platform with figures from a mass, which is a militant militia

:43:17. > :43:18.group in the Middle East, if the political project whose content is

:43:19. > :43:23.the destruction of the Jewish people. Yet he could not bring

:43:24. > :43:27.himself to share a platform with David Cameron, who introduced gay

:43:28. > :43:31.marriage legislation. He has to go. He does not represent progressive

:43:32. > :43:36.politics. He is not going to win a general election. It is a fantasy.

:43:37. > :43:42.More from the audience later. Your views welcome as well.

:43:43. > :43:45.Over the last few days you may have heard a lot about a divided britain,

:43:46. > :43:46.a dis-united kingdom following the results

:43:47. > :43:49.on the European Union referendum, which showed clear divisions

:43:50. > :43:54.The establishment versus working class.

:43:55. > :44:05.Jim Reed has been looking at the data.

:44:06. > :44:10.It was a night of celebration for some. On paper the result looks

:44:11. > :44:16.tired but on balance that still means an extra 1.3 million people

:44:17. > :44:21.voted to leave. When you break it down, there were some huge

:44:22. > :44:26.differences between districts. The most pro-Leave, Boston and links. We

:44:27. > :44:32.want our independence back. I want to say any more. And we can do it.

:44:33. > :44:39.Because we're Britain. The most pro-Remain, Lambeth. Londoners run

:44:40. > :44:46.by immigrants. For example, people that are English and they don't want

:44:47. > :44:51.to do such jobs as cleaning for manual labour, they are done by the

:44:52. > :44:54.immigrants. Overall, London went firmly Remain, as did every part of

:44:55. > :44:59.Scotland and most of Northern Ireland. For a Leave, the vote

:45:00. > :45:04.Willie stacked up in areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire, with

:45:05. > :45:07.Remain supporters harder to find. A lot has been made about age

:45:08. > :45:14.difference. The young were much more likely to vote stay in the EU. I

:45:15. > :45:18.don't think it is -- has done my generation any good. We have to live

:45:19. > :45:23.with these consequences. I obviously have a lot of foreign friends, but I

:45:24. > :45:28.think it will affect all young people for years to come across. As

:45:29. > :45:33.voters got older, so there were more likely to go Leave. Lovely. We have

:45:34. > :45:41.got what we wanted. I remember the old days. We don't like being bossed

:45:42. > :45:45.about. Early data suggests those young people were much less likely

:45:46. > :45:48.to actually vote. Analysis shows just 36% of 18 to 24-year-olds were

:45:49. > :46:01.likely to go to the polling station. We can see the districts with the

:46:02. > :46:04.highest number of overly 65s saw the highest turnout last week. Then

:46:05. > :46:14.there is the question of jobs and wealth. Here it is harder to come to

:46:15. > :46:17.conclusions, but districts with higher sal ves tended to vote for

:46:18. > :46:19.Remainment there were other factors in play and there are exceptions to

:46:20. > :46:23.the rule. The divisions feel

:46:24. > :46:24.particularly pronounced Let's just recap

:46:25. > :46:26.some of those facts. There's no official breakdown yet,

:46:27. > :46:33.but it's estimated that 75% of 18 to 24-yea- olds voted Remain,

:46:34. > :46:36.but only 34% of that age group Compare that with over 65s,

:46:37. > :46:40.where turnout was estimated at 83% - It's thought that if the same

:46:41. > :46:49.percentage of young people had voted as over 65s did, the UK

:46:50. > :46:53.would still be in the EU. Broadly speaking, lots of Remain

:46:54. > :46:55.young voters feel the older generation have robbed

:46:56. > :47:03.them of their future. So let's discuss that

:47:04. > :47:06.further with Sophie Barnes, Alexandra D'Sa and Ryan Synnott,

:47:07. > :47:08.who are all under 25 and voted to remain as part

:47:09. > :47:11.of the European Union. Paul Austin, Ann Steadman and Daniel

:47:12. > :47:25.Hodson all voted to leave. Welcome all of you. Thank you for

:47:26. > :47:30.coming on the programme. I would like you three, Alexandra, Sophie

:47:31. > :47:35.and Ryan to tell Ann, Paul and Daniel what you think about what

:47:36. > :47:40.happened. I think it was a massive risk to take. We were discussing

:47:41. > :47:46.this before. I feel angry and let down actually that the majority of

:47:47. > :47:50.older people over 65 voted to Leave. Look a the state we're in now. We're

:47:51. > :47:57.facing the dissolution of the Conservatives and the Labour Party

:47:58. > :48:02.are in disarray. The pound fell to biggest low since 1985 and a spike

:48:03. > :48:07.in racism on the streets. I myself, have experienced and I think it was

:48:08. > :48:13.a massive gamble. OK. Daniel how do you respond? I understand that in a

:48:14. > :48:16.way because I voted to Remain in 1975, but I've learned that the EU

:48:17. > :48:19.is not all that it is cracked up to be. I learned that it is

:48:20. > :48:27.undemocratic. I've learned that it is costly. That it is a massive

:48:28. > :48:31.imposition on the British economy... But the people who have to live with

:48:32. > :48:36.the decision are these people for decades to come. I think everyone is

:48:37. > :48:40.entitled to vote. It has been a democratic process, but we have had

:48:41. > :48:43.the experience of something change from being a viable, sensible

:48:44. > :48:48.economic project, a free trade zone to a political project which created

:48:49. > :48:52.the problems. How do you respond to that, Sophie? You have to remember

:48:53. > :48:56.we are coming from a generation that we don't know anything other than

:48:57. > :49:01.the EU. I've graduated from a university where ?15 million has

:49:02. > :49:05.been pumped from the European Union into Cardiff University. A lot of my

:49:06. > :49:09.higher education has come from that funding. Picking up on your point

:49:10. > :49:16.about the democratic voting process. That's important to remember, I like

:49:17. > :49:20.these guys, we are now leaving the European Union, but at the same time

:49:21. > :49:24.I don't agree with the way that people are taking to social media to

:49:25. > :49:28.attack the older generation because you have to remember everybody

:49:29. > :49:32.voted, regardless of which side for different reasons, so my reasons

:49:33. > :49:37.maybe difference to yours and so on. I don't think it is right to attack.

:49:38. > :49:44.Ryan what would you say to Paul and Ann. Ryan you're 25, and Ann is 84,

:49:45. > :49:49.Paul is 54. Do talk to them. I would say that it is a huge risk taken on

:49:50. > :49:54.behalf of the older generation for the younger generation. I think if

:49:55. > :49:59.you look at this as a, I'm looking at the long-term, potentially what

:50:00. > :50:06.is going to happen, we know that we're out of the EU now. We know...

:50:07. > :50:13.Are you cross well them? A little bit, yeah. As the younger generation

:50:14. > :50:16.we are going to have to pick up the baton if anything goes wrong. Do you

:50:17. > :50:19.accept that? Good morning to everyone in the studio there. First

:50:20. > :50:22.of all, we all have the right to vote. I'm glad that the young lady

:50:23. > :50:28.before made a point about that. I'm 54. I hope to have at least another

:50:29. > :50:32.15 to 20 years of working inn me actually by the way, but I have a

:50:33. > :50:36.young son who is only 12 years and I believe I was also voting for his

:50:37. > :50:40.future. I understand the younger generation, 25 and above feel that

:50:41. > :50:44.they are going to be carrying the mantle, but let's hope there is

:50:45. > :50:47.wisdom behind you in your parents and grandparents that can guide you

:50:48. > :50:50.knew the next few years and the Government that we have that will

:50:51. > :50:55.emerge from this, will have the right answers going forward. I feel

:50:56. > :50:59.there are answers not being given to us, but I want to reassure the

:51:00. > :51:03.younger generation, if that's what you want to call them, that there is

:51:04. > :51:05.a great future. Maybe it will be down to fortune and maybe they will

:51:06. > :51:09.make changes, but they will have decisions that they have to make. We

:51:10. > :51:16.have made some today, but they will have choices through voting for

:51:17. > :51:26.different governments. Let me bring in Ann. What to you say to the

:51:27. > :51:34.younger generation? Well, my opinion is for a long time we've been living

:51:35. > :51:39.in a very undemocratic way. I'm both the older generation, that's why

:51:40. > :51:44.they brought me in our area to speak and I sat on the fence for quite a

:51:45. > :51:50.while listening to the debate on one side and the other and frankly, I

:51:51. > :51:56.was horrified at the way it was conducted because if either party

:51:57. > :52:04.came up with an idea, immediately it was a knee jerk reaction and I don't

:52:05. > :52:10.think that's the way to handle political matters. I'm not of the

:52:11. > :52:15.political field at all. Ann, how do you respond to Ryan's point. He says

:52:16. > :52:20.it was a risk, he voted Remain, he thinks leaving is a risk and if

:52:21. > :52:22.things go wrong, it will be this generation, Ryan, Alexandra and

:52:23. > :52:28.Sophie who will have to pick up the baton and try and works things out?

:52:29. > :52:36.Yes, possibly, but maybe either way, I think we were in for a rough ride.

:52:37. > :52:42.And you know, I come from the arts world and we're used to paetion and

:52:43. > :52:47.troughs and I do think generally, I've got every sympathy for young

:52:48. > :52:53.people. I have worked with them most of them my life, but I think there

:52:54. > :52:56.is enormous panic and that's being made worse in a number of areas and

:52:57. > :53:03.what I would like to see is a meeting together of the political

:53:04. > :53:10.parties and maybe there could be a cross-party Government and please

:53:11. > :53:14.God that there will be a leader that will come out of this. I don't know

:53:15. > :53:18.if you noticed on Friday morning, Boris Johnson directly addressed

:53:19. > :53:21.young people. He and today, as he writes in the Daily Telegraph, he

:53:22. > :53:25.says, "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU, to

:53:26. > :53:33.live, to travel, to study, to buy homes. Will still have access to the

:53:34. > :53:39.single market." So what's going to change, Boris? Are you reassured?

:53:40. > :53:42.No, I'm not, what was the point in having a referendum if nothing is

:53:43. > :53:45.going to change. Are we talking about a Norway model where they pay

:53:46. > :53:50.85% of what we pay anyway and nothing will change. I come from the

:53:51. > :53:53.arts as well as Ann and I don't know what's going to happen to my future.

:53:54. > :53:58.I'm an actor, will I have the same opportunities? Will I be as

:53:59. > :54:03.desirable as competitive in that market? Paul, I gather your son

:54:04. > :54:09.works in the City at JP Morgan and he is upset with I think you and his

:54:10. > :54:15.mum? Yes, he is. He is very upset. He is only 30 years old. He had

:54:16. > :54:20.quite a real set to with his mother over the fact that we voted to

:54:21. > :54:23.leave. He believes we don't understand the economy. He is

:54:24. > :54:27.accusing of us almost helping to lose his job if the likes of JP

:54:28. > :54:30.Morgan or the banks threat tonne move out of the country as they have

:54:31. > :54:35.done in the papers in the last few days and we're trying to reassure

:54:36. > :54:39.him that, you know, he can forge his own future when another Government

:54:40. > :54:43.comes out. You can vote for who you want as you go forward. He keeps

:54:44. > :54:47.telling us we don't know about the economy. London is the centre of all

:54:48. > :54:52.this and basically, everybody over 50 didn't have a clue of what we

:54:53. > :54:56.were talking about. That's their attitude and him and mum are

:54:57. > :55:02.fighting about that and I hope he will realise there will be a merging

:55:03. > :55:07.ideas and great possibilities coming from this debate.

:55:08. > :55:11.A final point to Sophie and Alexandra and Ryan, if more young

:55:12. > :55:15.people voted, we might be in a different position. A third of 18 to

:55:16. > :55:19.4-year-olds turned out to vote. Where were they? I think they were

:55:20. > :55:23.very confused. I don't think the scaremongering... Is that enough of

:55:24. > :55:26.a reason not to vote because you're confused? It was easy to get

:55:27. > :55:30.confused. There was nobody just addressing the hard facts without

:55:31. > :55:35.any form of swaying to either side of the opinion and the fact that

:55:36. > :55:40.Boris called it Project Fear says it all for me. Protect Fear hasn't come

:55:41. > :55:44.to materialise, that's what he was saying? Younger people tend not to

:55:45. > :55:48.vote in general elections and what not and it is disappointing as a

:55:49. > :55:53.young person who is passionate about voting and passionate about how our

:55:54. > :55:56.economy is going to go forward as in a political sense that young people

:55:57. > :56:01.didn't turn out to vote. A lot of young people were very confused over

:56:02. > :56:05.the issues... A lot of middle-aged and older people were confused as

:56:06. > :56:09.well. Project Fear is over, that's what Boris Johnson said this

:56:10. > :56:13.morning. There was another Project Fear and it was Nigel Farage's

:56:14. > :56:16.Project Fear. I don't think that's over. That will have Royal Mailify

:56:17. > :56:21.cautions for decades to come actually. You're talking about

:56:22. > :56:23.potential racist incidents which we will talk more about later in the

:56:24. > :56:27.programme. Thank you for coming on the programme, all of you. Thank

:56:28. > :56:31.you, I appreciate your time. Paul, I hope your son and your wife and his

:56:32. > :56:37.mum make tup. I really do. Thank you. Cheers.

:56:38. > :56:42.Boris Johnson has said this morning there is no great rush to leave the

:56:43. > :56:47.European Union. That in itself could annoy some Leave voters. Some say

:56:48. > :56:53.though that if there is a quick general election, a snap general

:56:54. > :56:57.election, a winning pro-EU party could ignore the referendum vote to

:56:58. > :57:02.leave complete leur. Some MPs are calling for a second referendum

:57:03. > :57:07.anyway. Lord Heseltine argued that one would be needed to ratify any

:57:08. > :57:10.new deal reached with Brussels. He says the leaders of the Leave

:57:11. > :57:16.campaign must be put in charge of negotiating fresh terms for the UK.

:57:17. > :57:20.The negotiations will produce quite unacceptable deal for this country

:57:21. > :57:25.and the House of Commons will then say no, we can't accept that. The

:57:26. > :57:30.only way you can then deal with that is to have either a general election

:57:31. > :57:35.or another referendum and interestingly enough, a couple of

:57:36. > :57:40.months ago, Nigel Farage explicitly said that it was a 52%, 48%

:57:41. > :57:45.referendum result there would need to be another referendum. Now, he

:57:46. > :57:49.was anticipating losing, but the same facts remain, there have to be

:57:50. > :57:54.another constitution affirmation of the deal.

:57:55. > :57:57.How likely is any of that? Norman Smith can tell us more. Any chance

:57:58. > :58:02.this referendum vote could be undone?

:58:03. > :58:06.Well, it is a long shot, but it is far from impossible. You look at the

:58:07. > :58:10.sort of language now emerbleging from the Brexit camp, much more

:58:11. > :58:14.cautious about curbing immigration. Suggesting we may have to be part of

:58:15. > :58:17.that single market, praising the governor of the Bank of England and

:58:18. > :58:20.it is worth noting Boris Johnson himself, at the very start of this

:58:21. > :58:24.whole process, he was the one who floated this idea of a second

:58:25. > :58:27.referendum to try and get a better deal so you say, we want to leave

:58:28. > :58:31.and then you go back to Brussels to get a better deal and then you put

:58:32. > :58:35.that to the British people and you've got the difficulties around

:58:36. > :58:41.Nicola Sturgeon, will she put a spoke in the wheels to stop us

:58:42. > :58:44.invoking Article 50? We've got the German Government saying no need to

:58:45. > :58:50.rush, Britain take your time. All that does not mean it is not going

:58:51. > :58:54.to happen, but it suggests to me there is still potential wriggle

:58:55. > :58:58.room and frankly politics is in such a state of flux I think it would be

:58:59. > :59:01.a very brave person to suggest that a second referendum is absolutely

:59:02. > :59:06.under no circumstances not going to happen.

:59:07. > :59:12.Thank you very much, Norman. Now the weather. Here is John.

:59:13. > :59:15.Thanks, Victoria. It is dry in Downing Street at the moment. Most

:59:16. > :59:19.of us will have a reasonable day today. Enjoy it because the rest of

:59:20. > :59:23.the week doesn't look rosy of the a few showers today across the north

:59:24. > :59:27.western parts of the UK especially the west of Scotland, but the

:59:28. > :59:31.further south and east you go, the drier and the brighter and the

:59:32. > :59:36.sunnier. It will feel pleasant enough, out of the wind and in the

:59:37. > :59:40.sunshine, it will not feel too bad. A full evening's play I fancy as

:59:41. > :59:46.well if you're spectating or playing indeed.

:59:47. > :59:51.As we head to tomorrow change is a foot, it may start off dry and

:59:52. > :59:54.bright, but the rain will arrive. The rain will spread eastwards

:59:55. > :59:58.through the second half of the day. Some heavy rain too. Scotland

:59:59. > :00:03.probably staying with sunshine and showers. A cool one. That sets the

:00:04. > :00:07.scene for the rest of the week. We're all going to see wLet at

:00:08. > :00:13.times. It will feel cool with that blustery wind. Yes, there will be

:00:14. > :00:14.sunshine, but frankly, it will not feel like the middle of summer.

:00:15. > :00:20.Victoria. Hello it's ten o'clock,

:00:21. > :00:20.it's June 27th. I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:21. > :00:23.welcome to the programme if you've "Open for business" -

:00:24. > :00:27.the Chancellor tries to calm the economic waters in the midst

:00:28. > :00:29.of political chaos. Jeremy Corbyn is making

:00:30. > :00:33.appointments as fast as he can, as he tries to keep pace

:00:34. > :00:46.with the resignations I don't think he is the right person

:00:47. > :00:52.to lead us through the current situation. If I didn't have

:00:53. > :01:02.confidence in him, it would be wrong to sit around the shadow Cabinet

:01:03. > :01:05.table pretending added. I think the vast majority of Labour members want

:01:06. > :01:15.Jeremy to remain. He is an honest and straightforward man. As Cabinet

:01:16. > :01:21.ministers meet at Downing Street, Mr Cameron's aides admit there is no

:01:22. > :01:26.get Boris campaign to stop them becoming leader as Mr Johnson says,

:01:27. > :01:29.no need to panic. It is very good news that the Chancellor has said

:01:30. > :01:35.some reassuring things to the markets. It is clear now that

:01:36. > :01:40.Project Fear is over. There will not be a Emergency Budget, people's

:01:41. > :01:45.pensions are safe. We'll get reaction from our audience

:01:46. > :01:52.of voters. Give us one word to describe what you are thinking this

:01:53. > :02:03.morning. Optimistic. Optimistic. Despair. We will hear more later.

:02:04. > :02:07.Here's Joanna Gosling in the BBC Newsroom

:02:08. > :02:10.The Chancellor George Osborne has made his first address

:02:11. > :02:13.since the referendum decision to leave the European Union.

:02:14. > :02:16.He said he wanted to reassure people that the British economy

:02:17. > :02:20.Mr Osborne said Britain was open for business,

:02:21. > :02:28.and he didn't want the UK to turn its back on Europe.

:02:29. > :02:36.Our economy is about as strong as it could be to confront the challenge

:02:37. > :02:40.our country now faces. And that challenge is clear. On Thursday, the

:02:41. > :02:45.people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. That is

:02:46. > :02:50.not the outcome I wanted or that I threw everything into campaigning

:02:51. > :02:52.for. But Parliament agreed that there are issues of such

:02:53. > :02:56.constitutional significance that they cannot solely be left to

:02:57. > :03:04.politicians and must be determined by the people in a referendum. Share

:03:05. > :03:12.prices have remained volatile. The FTSE 100 index was down 0.4%. The

:03:13. > :03:16.decline was not as bad as some had feared. Banks were badly hit, with

:03:17. > :03:18.Royal Bank of Scotland down nearly 9%.

:03:19. > :03:21.One of the leading figures in the campaign for Brexit,

:03:22. > :03:23.Boris Johnson, has said there's no "great rush" to leave

:03:24. > :03:27.He says he's reassured by the Chancellor's words.

:03:28. > :03:30.Writing in The Telegraph, Mr Johnson says he still believes

:03:31. > :03:32.Britain will be able to retain access to the single market,

:03:33. > :03:43.I think it is very good news that the Chancellor has said some

:03:44. > :03:49.reassuring things to the markets and it is clear now that Project Fear is

:03:50. > :03:54.over. There is not going to be an Emergency Budget. People's pensions

:03:55. > :04:00.are safe. The pound is stable. The market are stable. I have seen a lot

:04:01. > :04:04.of confusion over the weekend about the status of people living in this

:04:05. > :04:07.country. It is absolutely clear that people from other European countries

:04:08. > :04:10.living here have their rights protected.

:04:11. > :04:12.The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is under intense pressure this

:04:13. > :04:14.morning as more MPs resign from his top team.

:04:15. > :04:17.Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson has returned from Glastonbury

:04:18. > :04:25.and will meet Mr Corbyn today to discuss "the way forward",

:04:26. > :04:27.after the revolt by what's now 16, and counting,

:04:28. > :04:31.They're angry at what they say was their leader's weak performance

:04:32. > :04:35.European leaders are to hold a series of meetings

:04:36. > :04:37.to discus their response to the referendum result.

:04:38. > :04:39.The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, will meet

:04:40. > :04:41.the French President, Francois Hollande, and the Italian

:04:42. > :04:44.Prime Minister, Matteo Renzi, in Berlin this evening.

:04:45. > :04:46.Mrs Merkel and Mr Hollande will also have separate

:04:47. > :04:48.meetings with the President of the European Council,

:04:49. > :04:56.Ten people remain in hospital after a rollercoaster derailed

:04:57. > :04:58.and crashed at a theme park in Motherwell in North Lanarkshire.

:04:59. > :05:02.Eight children are among those injured, three of them are said

:05:03. > :05:06.The park's owners say they're co-operating with an investigation

:05:07. > :05:20.That is a summary of the latest news.

:05:21. > :05:25.More at half-past. Another resignation for Jeremy Corbyn to

:05:26. > :05:31.deal with. This one is the shadow Welsh secretary, Nia Griffith. She

:05:32. > :05:35.is to meet Jeremy Corbyn to ask him to step down as leader -- Labour

:05:36. > :05:39.leader. If he refuses, she is expected to resign from the Shadow

:05:40. > :05:45.Cabinet. She believes she cannot serve under a leader she does not

:05:46. > :05:47.have confidence in. I make that 17 now from Jeremy Corbyn's top team in

:05:48. > :06:00.just over 24 hours. Thank you. The news we are hearing

:06:01. > :06:03.here is that Raheem Sterling is due to play for England tonight in a

:06:04. > :06:07.game that is when or Roy Hodgson. They are playing the lowest ranked

:06:08. > :06:13.team in this competition for a place in the quarterfinals. The game is

:06:14. > :06:17.being played in the south coast, in knees. Most people predict an

:06:18. > :06:21.England victory but Roy Hodgson's team have struggled in front of goal

:06:22. > :06:26.so far in this tournament. The manager is not too concerned and

:06:27. > :06:31.Wayne Rooney is confident as well. I think the size of the country is a

:06:32. > :06:35.number. They put the same amount of players on the pitch as we do. It is

:06:36. > :06:41.a fair game in that respect. We hope we can go out and win. We have to

:06:42. > :06:46.play our game, not really concentrate or worry about what I

:06:47. > :06:53.are going to do. If we do that, we are confident we can win the game.

:06:54. > :06:57.One piece of football news away from the Euros, it looks as though Lionel

:06:58. > :07:00.Messi's International career is over. He announced his retirement

:07:01. > :07:09.after Argentina lost to chilly in the final of the Copa America. His

:07:10. > :07:12.team were beaten on penalties. Messi missed his own spot kick and is

:07:13. > :07:16.quoted as saying that for him the national team is over. It was a hard

:07:17. > :07:21.moment for him and the team, he said. It is difficult to say but it

:07:22. > :07:26.is over with the Argentina team. Lionel Messi has announced his

:07:27. > :07:34.international retirement. At 29, he may have a rethink. Tory.

:07:35. > :07:42.Good morning. A couple of messages from people who want to talk about

:07:43. > :07:46.Jeremy Corbyn. Sophie says, Corbynista go. His referendum

:07:47. > :07:52.campaign was weak and lacked heart. Not what you need as a leader. The

:07:53. > :07:57.referendum has shown the working classes need a leader -- leader in

:07:58. > :08:02.labour who will put their problems first. If Corkman cannot unite the

:08:03. > :08:05.Labour Party, we might as well and the Conservatives a larger majority

:08:06. > :08:11.in government. -- Corbyn. So in Downing Street

:08:12. > :08:13.the Conservative party cabinet are meeting for the first time

:08:14. > :08:15.since last weeks historic vote taking the UK out

:08:16. > :08:17.of the European Union. Amidst the group are several people

:08:18. > :08:20.already plotting to to be the next Conservative party leader -

:08:21. > :08:22.and therefore the next It's without doubt

:08:23. > :08:32.the biggest job in politics. Here are the runners and riders

:08:33. > :08:35.for the next Conservative Party leader and that follows,

:08:36. > :08:37.the next Prime Minister Liam Fox is one of the most

:08:38. > :08:44.prominent Leave supporters. The former GP came a close third

:08:45. > :08:48.in the last leadership contest though his Cabinet career was cut

:08:49. > :08:52.short after a lobbying scandal. Well, I am not going to make any

:08:53. > :08:57.decision about that until we have had a bit of a rest over

:08:58. > :09:01.the weekend, a chance to talk to our colleagues, obviously

:09:02. > :09:03.I wouldn't rule anything out. Stephen Crabb is the current Work

:09:04. > :09:08.and Penions Secretary. At 43, he is the least experienced

:09:09. > :09:11.of the main contenders and his pro-Remain views

:09:12. > :09:15.could count against him. England and Wales just haven't

:09:16. > :09:19.trusted the messages that we've been trying very hard to communicate

:09:20. > :09:21.about why staying a part of the single market

:09:22. > :09:23.is so important. His background, though,

:09:24. > :09:27.might go in his favour. Raised by a single mum

:09:28. > :09:29.on a council estate in Wales. David Cameron once called him

:09:30. > :09:32.the Russell Crowe of politics... At 8-1, another unfamiliar

:09:33. > :09:40.face to most people. Andrea Leadsom is the current

:09:41. > :09:42.Energy Minister, former banker was one of the stars

:09:43. > :09:46.of the League campaign, with measured appearances

:09:47. > :09:48.in the media. Here at the BBC's Wembley debate

:09:49. > :09:51.in front of thousands. And we simply cannot afford it,

:09:52. > :09:54.we need to take back control and Vote Leave

:09:55. > :09:56.on Thursday. The most prominent Remain

:09:57. > :10:03.supporter in the top five, the Home Secretary Theresa May has

:10:04. > :10:05.a low-profile campaign, something She has already said to be speaking

:10:06. > :10:14.to MPs about a possible I completely understand why people

:10:15. > :10:18.are concerned about immigration, there's no silver bullet,

:10:19. > :10:21.no one thing you can do that's suddenly going to deal

:10:22. > :10:23.with all the problems and concerns people have over immigration

:10:24. > :10:29.and that includes leaving the EU. It's not an exaggeration to say

:10:30. > :10:35.Boris Johnson might well have won And take back control

:10:36. > :10:44.I believe that this Thursday will be our country's

:10:45. > :10:49.independence day. The former Mayor of London is one

:10:50. > :10:51.of the most familiar faces Who is going to be Britain's

:10:52. > :10:55.next Primes Minister? And we all know it's

:10:56. > :11:01.going to be you, Boris! He is a contemporary

:11:02. > :11:06.of David Cameron at Eton and Oxford, but he has never held a senior

:11:07. > :11:10.Cabinet position and he just might have enough enemies

:11:11. > :11:12.in the party that are rival Let's talk to two Conservatives

:11:13. > :11:21.who were on opposing sides Kwasi Kwarteng, who voted for the UK

:11:22. > :11:26.to leave the EU, is MP And Maria Miller is

:11:27. > :11:41.MP for Basingstoke. The next PM Michael Britain will be

:11:42. > :11:53.voted for by Conservative party members. -- Prime Minister row. That

:11:54. > :11:57.is what happened in 2007. When Gordon Brown took over there was not

:11:58. > :12:01.even a vote among the Labour Party. That is what happens when we have a

:12:02. > :12:06.Prime Minister coo resigns before a general election. There is a caucus

:12:07. > :12:11.within the party to decide who the party leader is. Will their bit --

:12:12. > :12:15.shouldn't there be a general election shortly after you elect a

:12:16. > :12:19.leader? Speaking as an MP, I am in favour of the idea that the new

:12:20. > :12:25.Prime Minister should seek a national mandate. That is up to the

:12:26. > :12:28.person chosen. Who are you backing? I have not quite made up my mind but

:12:29. > :12:34.I am certain that I feel the next Prime Minister should be committed

:12:35. > :12:39.to Brexit. After all, Brexit is the reason we are here in the first

:12:40. > :12:44.place. Who are you considering? I think Michael Gove is a very good

:12:45. > :12:50.candidate. Andrea Leadsom is very good. And I think Boris Johnson is

:12:51. > :12:54.obviously a strong candidate. If he is on the ballot paper in the end,

:12:55. > :12:58.when it goes out to the grassroots Tory members, he is the favourite,

:12:59. > :13:04.surely? Your betting suggested he is. It is not his fault he is

:13:05. > :13:12.popular. It is not a bad thing to be popular. I think he is in a strong

:13:13. > :13:16.position. Maria Miller, do you agree with quasi-that the next leader of

:13:17. > :13:22.the Tory party needs to be a Brexiteer? The next leader has not

:13:23. > :13:33.only God to bring the Conservative Party together but the country

:13:34. > :13:37.together. Can Brexiteers do that? I think it needs to be somebody who

:13:38. > :13:39.has the experience to set up the table with Angela Merkel and

:13:40. > :13:46.negotiate a great settlement for Britain. Who has got the experience

:13:47. > :13:51.to do that? I campaigned to remain in the EU. But now we are where we

:13:52. > :13:55.are, we need the best person. We have been in government for six

:13:56. > :13:59.years. Unlike the last time we chose a leader for our party, there were a

:14:00. > :14:03.lot of people just emerging. We have a range of people with the

:14:04. > :14:06.experience to take on people like Angela Merkel and get the best deal

:14:07. > :14:11.for our country, and make sure we can reach out to young people, who

:14:12. > :14:15.still very disenfranchised by this result. Speaking as the mother of

:14:16. > :14:19.two youngsters who were looking to study abroad, we have got to make

:14:20. > :14:23.sure that we reach out to those young people and we have an

:14:24. > :14:29.effective way of saying they are part of Britain's future. Can you

:14:30. > :14:35.give me a name? People like Andrea Leadsom timid of the campaign

:14:36. > :14:39.extremely well. You would favour her despite her being on the other side

:14:40. > :14:42.of the argument? I think that is important. We should not pigeon hole

:14:43. > :14:50.ourselves based on how we campaigned. I worked with Boris

:14:51. > :14:53.Johnson in opposition. He has got a powerful intellect. I think the

:14:54. > :14:57.question that parliamentarians will be asking themselves is, does he

:14:58. > :15:01.have the ability to sit at the table with a leader like Angela Merkel are

:15:02. > :15:05.any of the EU leaders and get the best deal for Britain and have

:15:06. > :15:11.command of the detailed? I think he does. He was mayor of London for

:15:12. > :15:14.eight years. That was a significant role. In other countries we have

:15:15. > :15:19.seen many mayors rise to become heads of state.

:15:20. > :15:29.This is from Nicola Sturgeon, "Indeed, Boris", "Indeed, Boris,

:15:30. > :15:32.project farce has just begun and you are largely responsible." Nicola

:15:33. > :15:35.Sturgeon is not really a friend of the United Kingdom. She wants to

:15:36. > :15:39.break tupment so let's just establish that. I think Boris fought

:15:40. > :15:43.a they good campaign and people talk about the 16 million voters who

:15:44. > :15:48.voted for Remain, but they forget that 17 million voted to Leave and

:15:49. > :15:52.we have a democracy. We all knew what the rules of the referendum

:15:53. > :15:55.would be. We knew it would be one referendum it is not the best of

:15:56. > :15:58.three as someone observed and we have got to stick to the majority

:15:59. > :16:02.decision. I'm sure you read what Boris Johnson has written in The

:16:03. > :16:05.Telegraph today. The tone does seem quite different to some of the

:16:06. > :16:11.things he was saying during the Leave campaign. For example, today,

:16:12. > :16:13.he is saying first of all, there is no great rush to leave the European

:16:14. > :16:17.Union. British people will still be able to go and work in the EU, to

:16:18. > :16:23.live, to travel, to study, to buy homes, to settle. There will

:16:24. > :16:27.continue to be free trade and access to the single market. Presumably it

:16:28. > :16:30.means some level of free movement of people? It struck me that many

:16:31. > :16:34.people said perhaps things in the heat of the debate and the heat of

:16:35. > :16:37.the election campaign that they are going to have to explain. For me, I

:16:38. > :16:41.want to have somebody that's going to be leading the country forward,

:16:42. > :16:46.who can bring people from all sides together. I mean I think the Leave

:16:47. > :16:54.campaign was a broad coalition of views which maybe, you know, you can

:16:55. > :16:57.explain more, but we need to make sure we have somebody leading us

:16:58. > :16:59.that can bring people together and very importantly, keep our United

:17:00. > :17:03.Kingdom together as well. What do you make of this piece

:17:04. > :17:07.today? It was interesting ideas, but the one thing people have got to

:17:08. > :17:12.remember... Does the tone feel very different to how Boris Johnson was

:17:13. > :17:16.in the campaign? The one thing Maria said it was a broad coalition. 17

:17:17. > :17:21.million people, that's more than any single election in British history.

:17:22. > :17:26.So there is lots and lots of views. Boris as a journalist was setting

:17:27. > :17:33.out his position. But he is not Prime Minister, it is only when we

:17:34. > :17:36.change the the Prime Minister and we get a new Government that we can

:17:37. > :17:39.push forward with this agenda. Let's have a debate but I think people are

:17:40. > :17:43.rushed into thinking we have the answers now of the and what he said

:17:44. > :17:48.that I agree with is there is no rush. We've got the old Prime

:17:49. > :17:51.Minister, we're not going to have a new Prime Minister for several

:17:52. > :17:56.weeks. Even if we invoked Article 50 tomorrow it would take two years. It

:17:57. > :17:59.is within our power to invoke Article 50. We have been in this

:18:00. > :18:04.institution for 43 years, so it might take a bit of time to unwind

:18:05. > :18:11.it and to leave it. Do you think there is any bottling it going on in

:18:12. > :18:15.terms of triggering Article 50? Before the campaign everybody on

:18:16. > :18:19.both sides, well, we will have to trigger it immediately... No, I

:18:20. > :18:22.never said that. Not you, the main leaders of both campaigns. Now,

:18:23. > :18:27.we're here, they're saying, "There is no rush." What is important is

:18:28. > :18:34.Britain has firm leadership. We need to have that leadership in place and

:18:35. > :18:36.in place swiftly and that's the important first step and that

:18:37. > :18:39.individual can take on the negotiations. This isn't going to be

:18:40. > :18:42.the Prime Minister who is negotiating our exit of the EU. It

:18:43. > :18:47.will be the person who is leading our country and I want to see

:18:48. > :18:49.somebody in police who will take forward David Cameron's one nation

:18:50. > :18:53.approach to the Conservative Party. Somebody who can take forward his

:18:54. > :18:57.approach to equality and diversity which he has done so successfully. I

:18:58. > :19:00.don't know how you can say one nation with a straight face bearing

:19:01. > :19:05.in mind where we are today in this country. Well, one nation approach

:19:06. > :19:09.to Conservative Party absolutely. In terms of equal marriage and making

:19:10. > :19:13.sure that we have a long-term future for our NHS and reform of the

:19:14. > :19:18.education system. Norman is at Westminster. He would like to talk

:19:19. > :19:22.towel. Hello Norman. I wanted to put this thought to you. We talked about

:19:23. > :19:27.the single market which now Boris Johnson says, you know, we will get

:19:28. > :19:33.access to, but you know, certainly the language he is dressing it up

:19:34. > :19:36.around how you will be able to live and work and that suggests you will

:19:37. > :19:39.be part of the single market. I was struck at the tone in the Daily

:19:40. > :19:44.Telegraph saying it wasn't the main issue in the referendum and that the

:19:45. > :19:48.day after Philip Hammond said there would have to be compromise on

:19:49. > :19:51.freedom of involvement and the governor of the Bank of England who

:19:52. > :19:54.was a hate figure for many on the Brexit side, now Boris Johnson says

:19:55. > :19:58.he is doing a superb job and offering an olive branch to George

:19:59. > :20:03.Osborne saying the economy is in safe hands. It seems to me, we are

:20:04. > :20:09.seeing Boris Johnson having to put to one side some of the more sort of

:20:10. > :20:12.exuberant aspirations and ambitions that he articulated during the

:20:13. > :20:17.referendum campaign and I wonder whether we are going to see a bit of

:20:18. > :20:21.back pedalling? I wonder what your take is on that? Boris is a

:20:22. > :20:24.journalist as well as a politician, he has a weekly column. Do I agree

:20:25. > :20:29.with everything he said? No, I don't. I think it is premature

:20:30. > :20:31.frankly to be making decisions and comments about this. He is not even

:20:32. > :20:34.the Prime Minister. He is not even in the Government. He is in the

:20:35. > :20:37.political Cabinet. He holds no office. We already have a Prime

:20:38. > :20:42.Minister. We already have a Foreign Secretary. We already have a

:20:43. > :20:45.Chancellor. Now, when the new Government emerges, we will have a

:20:46. > :20:50.much clearer idea of what the direction will be, but for him and

:20:51. > :20:55.for people to expect absolute cast-iron clarity and cast-iron

:20:56. > :20:59.definition about a process which would take two, at least two, and

:21:00. > :21:04.possibly four years is unrealistic. We were in this thing for 43 years.

:21:05. > :21:08.You can't imagine that u you know, in a week we will have a new dispen

:21:09. > :21:11.ration, it will take time and we have to be thoughtful and measured

:21:12. > :21:17.and deliberate about it. You will know there are... Go on, Norman.

:21:18. > :21:21.There are people at Westminster who think it is reality time for Boris

:21:22. > :21:24.Johnson. That he has come out with the big bold slogans and now he is

:21:25. > :21:30.having to think crikey what do I do? That's why we are seeing the more

:21:31. > :21:34.mellow, more pragmatic response. That's why when they think who is

:21:35. > :21:38.going to lead the country next, we have to think about the person who

:21:39. > :21:41.does bring the country together. Whether it is the north or the

:21:42. > :21:44.south, people have taken different things out of the referendum

:21:45. > :21:48.campaign and we have got to make sure whatever settlement we have got

:21:49. > :21:52.everyone can buy in that. Boris Johnson does quote the German

:21:53. > :21:56.business institute. He says, "The German equivalent of the Crib, the

:21:57. > :22:01.BDI has reminded us there will continue to be free trade and access

:22:02. > :22:05.to the single market." The German business institute has denied a

:22:06. > :22:09.claim by Mr Johnson that it said Britain would retain access to the

:22:10. > :22:12.single market after a Brexit. I think what happened, I remember this

:22:13. > :22:17.during the campaign, it was asked to me a number of times. The chairman

:22:18. > :22:22.or whatever the head of the BDI said that it would be mad, I think, was

:22:23. > :22:25.his phrase or it would be very damaging for Germany not to be able

:22:26. > :22:29.to have some sort of Free Trade Agreement with Britain. OK. I'm

:22:30. > :22:33.going to pause there. I want to hear from voters in terms of your views

:22:34. > :22:35.on the next leader of the Conservative Party and therefore,

:22:36. > :22:45.the next Prime Minister of this country. Who do you want? Who don't

:22:46. > :22:53.you want? Who do you want? It should be Boris Johnson in my opinion. OK.

:22:54. > :22:56.And someone from the other side who is not with him from the Leave

:22:57. > :23:00.campaign from the Tory Party. Over there. I would like to see Boris

:23:01. > :23:04.Johnson because I think he has got enough support from the people and I

:23:05. > :23:10.think the people do back him... You are a Remainer. You voted Remain?

:23:11. > :23:15.Yes. About what about here? I wouldn't want to see Boris Johnson

:23:16. > :23:19.being the next Prime Minister and leader of the Tory Party, I don't

:23:20. > :23:24.think he has much experience and he is responsible for the toxic

:23:25. > :23:28.rhetoric around immigration which has been really damaging. More from

:23:29. > :23:29.our voters in the last half an hour in the programme. Thank you for

:23:30. > :23:33.coming on the programme, thank you. Has there been an increase in racist

:23:34. > :23:38.abuse since the referendum result? If so, is there any link to the fact

:23:39. > :23:41.that the campaign focussed on "taking back control"

:23:42. > :23:43.of our country and produced Over the past couple of days we have

:23:44. > :23:56.seen people share stories of racial In Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire,

:23:57. > :24:01.there have been reports that signs saying, "Leave the UK.

:24:02. > :24:04.No more Polish vermin" have been left outside primary schools

:24:05. > :24:08.and pushed through letter boxes. One tweet says a Muslim girl

:24:09. > :24:14.was targeted in Birmingham, with a group of lads shouting,

:24:15. > :24:17."get out, we voted Leave". Police in Hammersmith in West London

:24:18. > :24:19.have increased patrols after racist graffiti was found scrawled

:24:20. > :24:22.on a Polish Cultural Centre Incidents were even being reported

:24:23. > :24:29.at schools. This man says that a message

:24:30. > :24:34.was found at his daughters school telling a pupil to "go

:24:35. > :24:36.back to Romania". Here's a picture

:24:37. > :24:43.from Newcastle showing a banner with the words "stop immigration,

:24:44. > :24:44.start repatriation". There are reports of a stand-off

:24:45. > :24:46.between far-right demonstrators and a group defending refugees

:24:47. > :24:49.at a demo in the city This man tweets that a Sikh friend

:24:50. > :24:54.working in the NHS was asked by a patient why he hadn't yet

:24:55. > :24:58.left the UK. Let's talk now to Iman Etta,

:24:59. > :25:01.Deputy Director from Tell Mama, an organisation that monitors

:25:02. > :25:06.Islamophobic attacks. In the past 48 hours her team has

:25:07. > :25:10.dealt with a string of "alleged reports of racist incidents",

:25:11. > :25:12.believed to have been fuelled Ben Pantelimon, 29, a Romanian

:25:13. > :25:20.landscape architect living in the UK and he experienced racist abuse

:25:21. > :25:22.yesterday in London close John O'Connell is a spokesperson

:25:23. > :25:34.for Far Right Watch. Shazia Awan, a former

:25:35. > :25:36.Welsh Conservative candidate and remain campaigner

:25:37. > :25:39.who was told to pack her bags and go home after she expressed

:25:40. > :25:48.disappointment in the leave result. Right, tell me first of all what you

:25:49. > :25:52.have been monitoring? Reports you have been receiving. So we have been

:25:53. > :25:57.receiving 14 incidents so far and more coming this this morning. 14?

:25:58. > :26:01.And more coming in this morning of racist and anti-Muslim incidents,

:26:02. > :26:06.statements that have come in which as you just mentioned, we have voted

:26:07. > :26:10.you out, you're not wanted here. You should be kicked out. Obviously

:26:11. > :26:18.these are related to the referendum. One woman who reported to us said

:26:19. > :26:23.the referendum has given bigots the, it empowered them to vocalise even

:26:24. > :26:27.further their hate. OK. Not to be dismissed, but 14 is a very small

:26:28. > :26:31.number, would you accept that? Within 48 hours, that's a spark and

:26:32. > :26:34.that's a spark that's related to the referendum. The words are used are

:26:35. > :26:38.related directly to the referendum. Absolutely. Absolutely. Ben, what

:26:39. > :26:46.happened to you? Good morning, first of all. I was on my street going to

:26:47. > :26:54.church with my sister and her fee Fansy. While we were passing by a

:26:55. > :26:59.group of Englishmen, I suppose -- Fiance. I told my sister, not not

:27:00. > :27:03.say anything, that's not attract attention, because they had an

:27:04. > :27:07.English flag, the one with the St George Cross, once we passed them

:27:08. > :27:15.they started waving the flag and shouting, "We voted you out. Go home

:27:16. > :27:19.you immigrants." ." Did you react? No, we just carried on. What

:27:20. > :27:24.happened to you Various racist abuse. I got home from the count on

:27:25. > :27:28.Friday, I lost track of my days. I got home from the count and I was

:27:29. > :27:34.disappointed to hear that David Cameron was going to be resigning as

:27:35. > :27:38.leader and I got tweets saying, "Pack your bags, you're not welcome

:27:39. > :27:42.here." I have not just had one, I have had an array of racial abuse.

:27:43. > :27:48.At this point I would urge people to report it to the police because only

:27:49. > :27:54.by reporting these bigots can we root them out. I would like to read

:27:55. > :27:59.you an e-mail I got which I found particularly worrying because one of

:28:00. > :28:04.these bigots had gone to the trouble of finding my personal details. It

:28:05. > :28:10.reads, "You are not now nor will you ever be Welsh. Being born in Wales

:28:11. > :28:15.has nothing to do with being Welsh. I cannot wait to send you and at

:28:16. > :28:20.anti-white garbage that you stand for back to the Third World dump

:28:21. > :28:25.thaw came from along with some other colourful language." That's

:28:26. > :28:30.unacceptable. This is now a police matter. I have personally reported

:28:31. > :28:33.eight people to South Wales Police up and down the country and I would

:28:34. > :28:42.urge everybody to do the same at this point. I want to ask I, do you

:28:43. > :28:48.think that is directly related to the result, the outcome, a Leave

:28:49. > :28:54.vote is it to do with the nature tft campaign from the Leave side or

:28:55. > :29:00.both? Having been involved in the campaign for Stronger In, I felt

:29:01. > :29:04.this about four weeks ago when I was out in Cardiff and I was talking to

:29:05. > :29:08.a woman would happened to be happened, neither here nor there and

:29:09. > :29:12.somebody used the N word, shouted it in the street. Now, Boris Johnson,

:29:13. > :29:17.Michael Gove and their alliance with Nigel Farage and taking donations

:29:18. > :29:22.from the BNP have caused this. Boris Johnson is not fit to be leader of

:29:23. > :29:26.the Conservative Party. Let's remember he is the same man that

:29:27. > :29:29.called Sadiq Khan dangerous, too dangerous to lead London whatever

:29:30. > :29:32.his real views, that's what he said. I would suggest Boris Johnson is too

:29:33. > :29:36.dangerous to be leading of the Conservative Party. He has caused

:29:37. > :29:43.this and the blame lies directly at him. OK. Let me bring in some other

:29:44. > :29:50.guests. I have no idea if there were any donations from the BNP to the

:29:51. > :29:57.Leave side. That would be up to them to let us know if it was true or

:29:58. > :30:01.not. John O'Connell, you are from the organisation Far-right Watch,

:30:02. > :30:04.what do you make of the spike? We were trying to ascertain whether it

:30:05. > :30:12.was a spike or a step change for the long-term. You spoke about 14 being

:30:13. > :30:16.a relatively small number. We logged and recorded over 90 incidents on

:30:17. > :30:21.social media in the last three days. We were trying to find... Is that

:30:22. > :30:24.any different from normal racist tweets on social media when we are

:30:25. > :30:27.out of a referendum campaign? That's what they are trying to ascertain.

:30:28. > :30:29.These range from verbal abuse up to until violence and broken bones and

:30:30. > :30:47.blood. So and universally across the country,

:30:48. > :30:54.there seems to be a step change. We don't know whether it is a

:30:55. > :30:57.short-term spike or a long-term step change which concerns us. The

:30:58. > :31:21.question you asked the young lady about what she put it down

:31:22. > :31:23.violent to anybody that's got a different skin colour or faith or

:31:24. > :31:28.nationality, even if those nations are not in the EU, even if they are

:31:29. > :31:43.Asian nations, far east nations. Would it have any impact on EU? Not

:31:44. > :31:53.for the moment. Have you experienced racist abuse before? Yes I have. I

:31:54. > :31:58.have one or two examples. I lost a contract because one of the managers

:31:59. > :32:05.supervising the contract... I will, grow right back to you. Let's go to

:32:06. > :32:10.Norman. What is happening? Well, on the Labour front, I am told that Tom

:32:11. > :32:13.Watson, following his meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, has told Mr Corbyn

:32:14. > :32:18.that the Parliamentary party has no confidence in him and he should

:32:19. > :32:24.resign. This matters because Tom Watson is a pivotal big beast within

:32:25. > :32:29.the party. He is deputy leader. He has his own mandate. He was elected

:32:30. > :32:32.by party members. What he does could be absolutely critical in

:32:33. > :32:38.determining which way it goes. He has in effect thrown his weight

:32:39. > :32:44.behind Mr Corbyn's critics, lined up with them and told Jeremy Corbyn he

:32:45. > :32:47.has to go. That could be a decisive moment in this tussle. A lot of

:32:48. > :32:52.people were looking to Tom Watson. He was in Glastonbury yesterday. He

:32:53. > :32:58.was out of the loop. He has rushed back to Westminster. He has now told

:32:59. > :33:06.Jeremy Corbyn, you have to go. Does that mean Mr Corbyn will go? No,

:33:07. > :33:10.doesn't. Talking to those around Mr Corbyn, they are adamant he has the

:33:11. > :33:14.authority to remain because he was voted in overwhelmingly by party

:33:15. > :33:18.members. We have seen a Corbyn fightback. He has replaced all those

:33:19. > :33:23.shadow cabinet members who walked. He simply putting other members. He

:33:24. > :33:30.has filled the shadow cabinet with his own people, young, die-hard

:33:31. > :33:36.Corbyn MPs. My sense is he is hunkering down and is going to try

:33:37. > :33:40.to tough this out. But you have to say, the pendulum seems to be moving

:33:41. > :33:45.against him. I have lost count of family resignations there have been.

:33:46. > :33:50.Tom Watson is a pivotal moment. The next thing to watch are the trade

:33:51. > :33:54.unions. Yesterday we had Len McCluskey basically saying to Mr

:33:55. > :34:00.Corbyn's critics, bring it on. You think you can topple him? Let's CFU

:34:01. > :34:05.can. What is going to really determine things is where do the

:34:06. > :34:11.other key union leaders go? Do they line up behind Mr Corbyn? If they

:34:12. > :34:17.do, then dislodging Mr Corbyn might be very difficult. One final thing,

:34:18. > :34:22.watch what left-wing MPs do. If any of Mr Corbyn's natural sympathisers

:34:23. > :34:29.starts to run away from him, he is in trouble. Norman Smith. Let's get

:34:30. > :34:34.reaction from our voters in the studio. They are absorbing these

:34:35. > :34:40.fast-moving events and have been since the result on Friday morning,

:34:41. > :34:43.presumably. The deputy leader of the Labour Party has told the Labour

:34:44. > :34:49.leader Jeremy Corbyn he has to go. What do you think? I think it is

:34:50. > :34:54.very sad because I thought Jeremy Corbyn's was Labour's only chance of

:34:55. > :34:59.salvation. He has gone back to Labour's routes, which would appeal

:35:00. > :35:07.to a lot of people. I think he was their only hope. To see division in

:35:08. > :35:13.the Labour Party is very sad. I think the Labour Party will have to

:35:14. > :35:18.split into two different parties. The only thing that can come from

:35:19. > :35:29.this is a separate movement led by Corbyn and a new party. I think he

:35:30. > :35:33.is a stain on the history of the British Labour movement. His views

:35:34. > :35:38.are totally out of sync. Do you think it will make a difference now

:35:39. > :35:44.that Tom Watson has said, however much I respect you, you have to go?

:35:45. > :35:48.This is fascinating. Jeremy Corbyn comes from a part of British

:35:49. > :35:51.politics that does not care about Parliamentary democracy. He thinks

:35:52. > :35:55.that Parliament is not the instrument through which social

:35:56. > :35:58.change can be achieved. He think it is through the wider Labour

:35:59. > :36:04.movement, the unions, the hard left etc. He thinks that is not where

:36:05. > :36:09.change comes. He is wrong. I'm interested in this argument. The

:36:10. > :36:13.issue will be about where the membership stands. If the membership

:36:14. > :36:20.continue to support Jeremy Corbyn, there is a potential massive split

:36:21. > :36:24.for the Labour Party. The membership is only 300,000, 400,000. That is

:36:25. > :36:29.not enough to get the Deborah party elected. That is what we need to do

:36:30. > :36:34.to move Ford. I am a former Labour supporter. Who is the person in the

:36:35. > :36:39.Labour Party who could potentially be that next leader who can be a

:36:40. > :36:44.leader and has the skills? And who could pull back those Labour voters

:36:45. > :36:47.who voted leave our voted Ukip in the local elections, particularly

:36:48. > :36:56.from the north of England, and could attract middle England? I think

:36:57. > :37:00.somebody like Stephen Kinnock. There has to be a fresh, energetic,

:37:01. > :37:06.dynamic person with a vision, clearly with a skill to bring us

:37:07. > :37:09.through these difficult times. I think it is a real shame that at a

:37:10. > :37:13.time when we need both sets of parties to come together to sort out

:37:14. > :37:17.negotiations with the EU, we are seeing that both parties are trying

:37:18. > :37:21.to scramble to save themselves and they are in disarray. It would be a

:37:22. > :37:27.shame that Jeremy Corbyn -- if Jeremy Corbyn stepped down. To see

:37:28. > :37:34.him standing again, I think he would probably win again. That is

:37:35. > :37:36.pointless. More than a second. Let's talk about Scotland.

:37:37. > :37:38.Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has suggested

:37:39. > :37:40.that the Scottish Parliament could try to block

:37:41. > :37:48.As you know, Scotland backed remain despite a UK wide vote to leave.

:37:49. > :37:51.Let's speak to Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh from the SNP party

:37:52. > :37:54.who was "heartbroken" when the United Kingdom decided

:37:55. > :37:58.to leave the European Union, and Professor Robert Hazell

:37:59. > :38:02.who believes it is a far-fetched suggestion that the Scottish

:38:03. > :38:08.Parliament might somehow block Brexit.

:38:09. > :38:19.Welcome both. Would Scotland defy the will of 17 million people across

:38:20. > :38:23.the UK who voted to leave the EU? Lie let's set the record straight.

:38:24. > :38:28.The First Minister did not say she would block the vote because she is

:38:29. > :38:34.not in a position to do so. Neither is their legislation that allows us

:38:35. > :38:39.to do that. She said she would ask Parliament for a legislative consent

:38:40. > :38:45.and it is not in Scotland's interest to leave the EU? You would accept

:38:46. > :38:51.that the person elected to act in the best interest of Scotland would

:38:52. > :38:55.do what is best for Scotland. She is engaging with everybody and has

:38:56. > :38:59.wasted no time in doing that. While Boris was playing cricket, she was

:39:00. > :39:03.busy doing the important business of leading her country. In terms of

:39:04. > :39:07.legislative consent motion, that will come from the entirety of the

:39:08. > :39:11.Scottish parliament. Do you think it is feasible that the Scottish

:39:12. > :39:17.parliament really could, if it voted that way, try to block Britain's

:39:18. > :39:22.exit? They can withhold consent. They cannot block Britain's exit. It

:39:23. > :39:30.is then up to the UK Parliament as to whether it wants to recognise

:39:31. > :39:35.that or not. It is symbolic? The interesting thing about this one

:39:36. > :39:38.nation politics is where Scotland stands in that? Nicola Sturgeon gave

:39:39. > :39:43.the Prime Minister the opportunity to look at things from different

:39:44. > :39:49.perspectives. If we are going to exit from the EU, surely the

:39:50. > :39:53.constituent countries should vote in that manner. Is it far-fetched that

:39:54. > :39:57.the Scottish parliament could somehow withhold consent? It is

:39:58. > :40:01.certainly within the powers of the Scottish Parliament to withhold

:40:02. > :40:08.consent. But I agree with Tasmania, it would not necessarily block

:40:09. > :40:11.Brexit. That is far-fetched. It is up to the UK government and

:40:12. > :40:15.parliament to decide what it wants to do. It is within the power of the

:40:16. > :40:21.Westminster Parliament to override the Scottish parliament. That is

:40:22. > :40:28.very clear. I am so sorry, back to Downing Street. What is happening?

:40:29. > :40:34.Let's finesse things a little bit. Mr Corbyn's people are adamant that

:40:35. > :40:39.Tom Watson did not say Mr Corbyn had to quit. He did say that Mr Corbyn

:40:40. > :40:43.had lost the confidence of the PLP and it was up to Mr Corbyn to decide

:40:44. > :40:47.what he wanted to do. He cautioned him it would be a bruising

:40:48. > :40:51.leadership contest. Tom Watson clearly setting out the gravity of

:40:52. > :40:56.the issue, saying he has lost the confidence of the PLP but not

:40:57. > :41:00.pulling the trigger and saying, you have to go. He said it was up to him

:41:01. > :41:07.to decide what to do. Team Corbyn saying that Tom Watson did not say,

:41:08. > :41:11.you must quit. It is one notch down from Tom Watson actually demanding

:41:12. > :41:15.he goes. But of course what Tom Watson has not done is line up

:41:16. > :41:19.behind all of those people who have been backing Mr Corbyn, saying, you

:41:20. > :41:25.have lost the confidence of the Parliamentary party.

:41:26. > :41:30.Professor Hazell, do carry on. If the Scottish parliament does

:41:31. > :41:35.withhold legislative consent, let's be clear of what it might withhold

:41:36. > :41:38.consent from. Under the Scotland act, there is a requirement that

:41:39. > :41:45.when the parliament itself passes laws, all of its laws must comply

:41:46. > :41:51.with EU law. And if the UK leaves the EU, then the UK Parliament is

:41:52. > :41:54.part of the manor -- as part of the mammoth tidying up exercise,

:41:55. > :41:58.removing EU law from all its legislation, would want to remove

:41:59. > :42:02.that requirement in relation to the powers of the Scottish parliament.

:42:03. > :42:07.But if the Scottish Parliament says, no, we do not consent, one other

:42:08. > :42:13.thing the UK government could do is simply say, OK, if you want to carry

:42:14. > :42:19.on on a voluntary basis complain with EU law, we will respect your

:42:20. > :42:22.wishes. That is interesting. This is a matter entirely for the Scottish

:42:23. > :42:28.Parliament and the First Minister will be making a statement tomorrow.

:42:29. > :42:34.Scotland, according to what I think Nicola Sturgeon was saying, you do

:42:35. > :42:38.not want to leave the EU and have two rejoin. You want to stake your

:42:39. > :42:47.macro We campaign for the entirety of the EU to remain in the EU. --

:42:48. > :42:52.campaign. We should respect the democratic exercise. Scotland's

:42:53. > :42:55.position is unique. Most people voted to remain. It is incumbent on

:42:56. > :42:59.the First Minister to do whatever she can to ensure that the will of

:43:00. > :43:04.the Scottish people is recognised. That is why she is engaging at all

:43:05. > :43:12.levels. She is being highly respected for doing so. She has

:43:13. > :43:15.demonstrated true leadership. People are extremely nervous because that

:43:16. > :43:20.is not what they have voted for. Thank you for your patience. This is

:43:21. > :43:26.being reported by Reuters. Angela Merkel of Germany says the EU must

:43:27. > :43:34.act to prevent other countries from, it says fleeing the EU. It probably

:43:35. > :43:37.means leaving but maybe she actually said fleeing. Maybe it is a

:43:38. > :43:43.translation issue. Angela Merkel says the UK must act to prevent

:43:44. > :43:49.other countries leaving the European Union. Our audience all voted on

:43:50. > :43:53.Thursday if not before. The 72 hours after the result, now we are going

:43:54. > :44:00.to hear from them. I wonder what people are thinking? How are people

:44:01. > :44:04.reacting to the speedy political events, the after-shocks from

:44:05. > :44:09.Thursday's vote? We started the programme this morning by you

:44:10. > :44:16.telling us, sir, that you thought it was chaotic. You were a Leave voter

:44:17. > :44:20.and it felt chaotic. It is chaotic. There is a lot of political

:44:21. > :44:26.opportunism going on by trying to oust Jeremy Corbyn. Alex Salmond and

:44:27. > :44:30.Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP, they keep going on about what is best for

:44:31. > :44:34.the Scottish people. It seems to me they are doing what is best for Alex

:44:35. > :44:39.Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. I think we should have a period of calm. I

:44:40. > :44:51.think David Cameron has got a role to play. Everybody can forgive him

:44:52. > :44:54.if he goes back into Number 10 and draws the curtain to watch the

:44:55. > :44:58.tennis but he still has a role to play domestic league. He should be

:44:59. > :45:05.making a speech to calm everybody. He has had the cabinet meeting this

:45:06. > :45:11.morning. He will address colleagues. You also voted Leave. What are you

:45:12. > :45:13.thinking? I am very worried about Scotland and the fact that more

:45:14. > :45:18.people in Scotland voted to remain banned to leave does not wipe away

:45:19. > :45:25.the 2 million people majority that voted in September 20 14th to go the

:45:26. > :45:31.same way as the UK. They voted for whatever happened in the future. I

:45:32. > :45:37.do not think that Scotland should think they have a democratic mandate

:45:38. > :45:42.to leave the EU. Given that vote in 2014.

:45:43. > :45:50.When you voted Leave, were you thinking it could lead to a second

:45:51. > :45:55.independence referendum? Yes, and trying to preserve the Union was not

:45:56. > :45:58.worth it no not be free of that political union with the EU.

:45:59. > :46:06.Introduce yourself. You voted Remain? I think everywhere there is

:46:07. > :46:10.chaos and turmoil. It will settle down by itself naturally and it is

:46:11. > :46:14.better that this turmoil happens now rather than prolongs for a long

:46:15. > :46:19.period of time so in three months' time we have all new leadership...

:46:20. > :46:23.Do you think in three months it will be calm and everything sorted? We

:46:24. > :46:25.will a new direction from everybody, about the Labour Party and the

:46:26. > :46:28.Conservative Party. Hopefully we will have a new general election. So

:46:29. > :46:35.we will have a clear direction. You want a general election? Yes, that's

:46:36. > :46:40.the right way to go. Would you be looking to vote for a party that was

:46:41. > :46:45.pro-EU, we don't want to leave? We might, by the time a general

:46:46. > :46:50.election is here, still no one might have triggered this famous Article

:46:51. > :46:53.50. We might still be in the EU? We are going to be in the EU for

:46:54. > :47:01.sometime. That's not going to change. The people should accept

:47:02. > :47:05.that fact. Hello. When do you want this famous Article 50 triggered to

:47:06. > :47:09.start the clock ticking on getting out of the EU? I genuinely believe

:47:10. > :47:12.there needs to be a period of calm because there is no rush to do

:47:13. > :47:15.anything. Right, you agree with Boris Johnson then there is no rush

:47:16. > :47:21.to leave the European Union? Nothing changed. We're still a member. We

:47:22. > :47:25.are still paying our contributions, the calm has been spun out of

:47:26. > :47:28.control by the media and the people that don't truly agree with the

:47:29. > :47:32.result. They're not happy with that. For me, there is a bigger problem

:47:33. > :47:34.and I think the whole process has demonstrated there are massive

:47:35. > :47:37.divisions in each of the major parties that they have been papering

:47:38. > :47:41.over the cracks for years and I think what we're now seeing is those

:47:42. > :47:46.parties are actually going to get smaller. That's a natural process

:47:47. > :47:52.now. OK. There could be a void. It could be Ukip, it could be the

:47:53. > :47:58.Greens or the Libs, but there has to be something to take up the slack in

:47:59. > :48:02.the middle. It was your fellow Leave voter next to you who used the word,

:48:03. > :48:10."Chaos." 72 hours after the result,

:48:11. > :48:22.now it has all sunk in, There isn't 350 million quid a week

:48:23. > :48:30.to spend. There is a net ?10 billion. It is more like ?160

:48:31. > :48:33.million. ?10 billion a year. That's only available once we've left the

:48:34. > :48:36.European Union which is 2019 and those decisions have to be taken by

:48:37. > :48:39.the Government of the day and that will be a very different Government

:48:40. > :48:44.of the day even from we have now. There is a long time in the future,

:48:45. > :48:46.but what the Leave campaign and what people didn't quite grasp in the

:48:47. > :48:49.referendum was, it want a general election. They weren't electing a

:48:50. > :48:53.new programme. What they were electing to do was to give future

:48:54. > :49:01.governments greater choice over the actions they could pursue if they

:49:02. > :49:05.wanted. The 350 is more like ?150 million. My issue has been the lack

:49:06. > :49:10.of sovereignty and the lack of democracy. Of course, there are

:49:11. > :49:15.economic issues as well. It wouldn't exactly be Norway. We're 65 million

:49:16. > :49:20.rather than five million, but the idea of staying outside a Common

:49:21. > :49:26.Market, that's feasible, yes. And that means free moment of people? It

:49:27. > :49:30.means free movement of labour. We have been through three months of

:49:31. > :49:35.agony on the issue of immigration. The public have been led to believe

:49:36. > :49:41.that what they have voted for is an end... From the moment we joined, we

:49:42. > :49:44.had the right to take up a job offer in another member state. We had a

:49:45. > :49:49.legal entitlement if you presented your contract. Now, that changed

:49:50. > :49:52.with Maastricht when EU citizenship was introduced, people were given

:49:53. > :49:56.legal entitlements to live in other countries and vote in other

:49:57. > :50:02.countries and claim welfare and that bit I think is going to change. Why

:50:03. > :50:08.didn't you say that in the campaign that you were wanting a system, a

:50:09. > :50:14.scheme, where we have free moment of labour? That's at odds with what the

:50:15. > :50:19.public think they have voted. Is the ?350 million going to the go to the

:50:20. > :50:22.NHS and when? The ?350 million was an extrapolation of the ?19.1

:50:23. > :50:25.billion, that's the total amount of money that last year we gave across

:50:26. > :50:30.to the European Union. We can talk about money back... It was going to

:50:31. > :50:34.go to the NHS. Well, what we said was, a significant amount will go to

:50:35. > :50:38.the NHS and that's down to the Government, but I actually believe

:50:39. > :50:44.that's what was pledged and it will happen. The ?350 million will got Go

:50:45. > :50:47.to the NHS? There is agriculture and stuff which is part of that process,

:50:48. > :50:52.that's the divide up. It was never total, but it is a commitment and it

:50:53. > :50:57.is a commitment... Commitment that we stand by. Let's give our NHS the

:50:58. > :51:03.?350 million the EU takes every week. No ifs, no buts, that's what

:51:04. > :51:06.we're going to do. The point that everybody should bear in mind is

:51:07. > :51:10.that money which goes to the European Union, that comes back,

:51:11. > :51:15.that money now is able to be spent on a priority like the NHS, but

:51:16. > :51:19.others where there are commitments... That's a promise

:51:20. > :51:27.broken? I never said that during the course of the election. People can

:51:28. > :51:31.say there is more money available now for the NHS which is what's

:51:32. > :51:35.required and that's the point. ?350 million a week we send to the EU

:51:36. > :51:39.which we will no longer send to the EU. Can guarantee that's going to go

:51:40. > :51:43.to the NHS? No, I can't and I would never have made that claim. That's

:51:44. > :51:50.one of the mistakes the Leave campaign made. Hang on, that was one

:51:51. > :51:54.your adverts? It was. I think they made a mistake. That's why many

:51:55. > :52:00.people voted? They made a mistake in doing that. We have a nice... You're

:52:01. > :52:04.saying after 17 million have voted for Leave, based, I don't know how

:52:05. > :52:07.many people voted on the basis of that add ver, but that was a huge

:52:08. > :52:12.part of the propaganda, you're saying that was a mistake? We have a

:52:13. > :52:16.?10 billion a year, ?34 million a day feather bed. That's going to be

:52:17. > :52:22.free money that we can spend on the NHS, on schools, or whatever it is.

:52:23. > :52:27.You're not guaranteeing that that money, as promised, will go to the

:52:28. > :52:38.NHS? I must understand, I was ostracised by the official Leave

:52:39. > :52:48.campaign and I did my own thing. How do you view the gentle rowing

:52:49. > :52:56.back on some of the promises? They are talking of the ?350 million, you

:52:57. > :53:01.know, that was a bit, you know, it was hidden stuff and Boris came

:53:02. > :53:06.clean, it is not ?350 million going to the EU, ?10 billion is coming

:53:07. > :53:09.back. What do you think about Leave campaigners going back on, sounding

:53:10. > :53:14.like they are going back on the promises? Well, I think... Is that

:53:15. > :53:20.OK? It is not OK, but you know, this happens, I think, almost all

:53:21. > :53:25.elections. Elections. Partly it will happen here also. You're pragmatic,

:53:26. > :53:29.you're realistic, that's what politicians do? Across-the-board. I

:53:30. > :53:32.understand. Yes, what do you think? I don't think that's correct. I

:53:33. > :53:36.don't think it is feasible to say that's what they do. At the end of

:53:37. > :53:41.the day the promises they made the money going to the NHS and the

:53:42. > :53:45.promises they made about immigration, a lot of people who

:53:46. > :53:49.voted Leave voted because of the immigration promises. They are

:53:50. > :53:54.saying there won't be free travel, what are you offering to the people

:53:55. > :53:57.of the UK? Have have you made so many people vote to leave and now

:53:58. > :54:03.you're saying nothing is changing. Why do you think? I this is just one

:54:04. > :54:06.of those things where they did a scaremongering campaign and it is

:54:07. > :54:08.really pathetic, it was a sham of a campaign. There was no real

:54:09. > :54:11.information going out to the electorate. Nobody was getting real

:54:12. > :54:14.information about what was going to happen and what was not going to

:54:15. > :54:18.happen and now we have to deal with the circumstances. You talk about

:54:19. > :54:26.the chaos unleashed by a Brexit vote. Who did? Over there. There is

:54:27. > :54:33.a fundamental point. The people who were campaigning for Brexit, the

:54:34. > :54:37.Rose, Galloway, Farage, they did not pretend no know about the forces

:54:38. > :54:41.they were going to unleash with Brexit. Everywhere in this world

:54:42. > :54:46.liberal democracy is under threat. The values of liberal democracy,

:54:47. > :54:52.freedom of expression, ethnic, sexual, respect for the rule of law,

:54:53. > :54:55.all of these things are under threat in Europe, the west and across the

:54:56. > :55:03.world. Who would welcome this? How will it be seen in that context?

:55:04. > :55:07.Every racist for every homeophobe, this is a victory for them

:55:08. > :55:12.unfortunately. If everybody reads Boris Johnson's article in The Daily

:55:13. > :55:16.Telegraph and believes it, he has been more pro net mid-gation, it

:55:17. > :55:20.would seem, today. The things mentioned, it is more of a threat if

:55:21. > :55:24.we stay in the EU. Like more of a threat to the democracy and things

:55:25. > :55:27.like that. This was a showing of British democracy and perhaps we

:55:28. > :55:33.have had the Arab Spring and perhaps now we are due for the British

:55:34. > :55:45.spring. Can I pick up on the argument of democracy? You had your

:55:46. > :55:49.head in your hands there, why? What has happened in the Arab Spring, we

:55:50. > :55:55.have Syria in tatters, so many millions of refugees being dead. We

:55:56. > :55:59.are getting into Libya. It has to be something different. A lot of people

:56:00. > :56:02.are actually coming out and saying things, they are talking about

:56:03. > :56:04.revolutions and independence, we cannot compare ourselves to

:56:05. > :56:08.countries who gained independence. We have never been in that

:56:09. > :56:12.situation, we weren't confined by a different country. We weren't put in

:56:13. > :56:16.a situation where they were in slavery, to call it Independence Day

:56:17. > :56:20.is insulting to countries who had gone through those things and gained

:56:21. > :56:26.independence. So many people talked about democracy. It seems to have

:56:27. > :56:30.been a by-product of this. We have an unelected House of Lords. There

:56:31. > :56:33.is no electoral reform. You have a Government at the moment that was

:56:34. > :56:38.elected on 24% of the electorate. That is not democracy. We also

:56:39. > :56:42.denied 16 and 17-year-olds the right. This vote on Thursday, that

:56:43. > :56:46.was democracy? That was democracy. You don't like the result. No, it is

:56:47. > :56:51.not not about liking the result, when we start to laud ourselves

:56:52. > :56:56.about being in the vanguard of democracy as Boris Johnson has done,

:56:57. > :57:01.let's look at our own institutions. And the man who may become Britain's

:57:02. > :57:05.next Prime Minister? He will give a mandate. He hasn't got that at the

:57:06. > :57:12.moment. That's democracy. I agree with that opinion and what we've got

:57:13. > :57:17.at the moment... You're a Leave Supporter and you are a Remain

:57:18. > :57:22.supporter. Your average Joe will struggle to engage and understand

:57:23. > :57:26.it. Puff got the EU bureaucracy. You mentioned the average Joe who failed

:57:27. > :57:29.to understand it. Have you been insulted by the comments from Remain

:57:30. > :57:37.supporters since the result? Absolutely. Well, towards the latter

:57:38. > :57:40.stages... What's the worst? I was called more ronnic and I didn't

:57:41. > :57:44.understand anything and the racist comments being used by the same

:57:45. > :57:48.token have been used against people who voted Leave to be told they are

:57:49. > :57:59.stupid and they don't understand anything. That is not OK. It was

:58:00. > :58:04.fought and it was bad and that was by design and it has been bad since.

:58:05. > :58:07.Thank you all of you. Thank you for coming on the programme. I

:58:08. > :58:11.appreciate you giving up your whole Monday morning to be here. Thank

:58:12. > :58:15.you. I really appreciate it. On the programme tomorrow, much more on the

:58:16. > :58:21.UK's historic vote to Leave the European Union. We will have, we

:58:22. > :58:24.will keep right across the fast moving political developments and we

:58:25. > :58:29.will hear more from you because you are the important people in all of

:58:30. > :58:32.this. Thank you. Have a good day. We're back tomorrow at 9am.