:00:00. > :00:00.Mr Corbyn for the top job. At a rally last night, Mr Colburn was
:00:00. > :00:00.adamant he was staying on, and he was heckled.
:00:00. > :00:00.CROWD MEMBER: What about Europe? Where were you when we needed you?
:00:07. > :00:17.It wasn't my wish, and it wasn't the wish, I suspect,
:00:18. > :00:22.It is mobilising people, free thinking and ideas
:00:23. > :00:24.in order to concentrate those into policies that can actually
:00:25. > :00:28.improve the lives of everybody in our society.
:00:29. > :00:31.That is why we contested the leadership of this party a year ago
:00:32. > :00:36.and why I am very proud to be carrying on with that work.
:00:37. > :00:48.general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union.
:00:49. > :00:52.And Ayesha Hazarika, she's a former Labour spin doctor
:00:53. > :00:54.who worked with Ed Miliband during last year's general election.
:00:55. > :01:00.She wants to see Mr Corbyn step down.
:01:01. > :01:07.James Schneider is from Momentum, the Labour grassroots network group,
:01:08. > :01:13.which supports Jeremy Corbyn. And Ann Coffey is one of the two Labour
:01:14. > :01:16.MPs who tabled the motion of no-confidence in Jeremy Corbyn.
:01:17. > :01:20.According to the Times, Jeremy Corbyn wants to go, but those close
:01:21. > :01:26.to him stopping that - do you believe that? No, and I've spoken to
:01:27. > :01:29.his office and to Jeremy in the last couple of days, and I think that is
:01:30. > :01:32.just a rumour that is being spread around to add to the
:01:33. > :01:36.destabilisation. Jeremy is determined to stand in an election,
:01:37. > :01:40.he believes he knows that to the hundreds of thousands of people who
:01:41. > :01:44.have voted for him. For anyone who says he is not a leader, I would
:01:45. > :01:47.suggest that the courage he has shown in this last few weeks really
:01:48. > :01:51.does mark him out, that he is an exceptional leader, and he wants to
:01:52. > :01:56.be able to lead the Labour Party, to challenge the Tories in these very
:01:57. > :02:03.uncertain times. You will know that Ed Miliband, the formerly do, is
:02:04. > :02:08.calling for Mr Corbyn to stand down, reluctantly, he says. The issues
:02:09. > :02:12.that he stands for will be better served if he goes and Labour can get
:02:13. > :02:17.on acting with a proper opposition party. The problem is that Labour
:02:18. > :02:21.were not an effective opposition party under Ed Miliband, or indeed
:02:22. > :02:25.not that effective in the days of the Gordon Brown government. And
:02:26. > :02:30.they are effective now? They did not have the right policies then... They
:02:31. > :02:33.are effective now? They would be if the MPs in Parliament got behind
:02:34. > :02:37.their leader and allowed him to articulate what the British people
:02:38. > :02:41.have not yet heard, an alternative to austerity, building billions of
:02:42. > :02:46.council houses, giving kids an opportunity to have an education.
:02:47. > :02:50.But you need to be a leader of the Parliamentary party and the members,
:02:51. > :02:55.and Mr Corbyn is only the leader of one half of the party, isn't he? In
:02:56. > :03:02.the long run, it would be unsustainable, but I would hope that
:03:03. > :03:05.the MPs, 172 of them, standing as Labour candidates, not standing with
:03:06. > :03:09.a mandate to try to destabilise their leader, who has a more
:03:10. > :03:12.individual votes than any of its predecessors, and I think that now
:03:13. > :03:18.that there will be an election, I have to say I welcome the fact that
:03:19. > :03:23.we can get away from an unDemocratic coup by 172 MPs, we can allow party
:03:24. > :03:28.members to decide what they want, and I think Jeremy will win that
:03:29. > :03:31.election, and I believe those MPs must now knuckle down and support
:03:32. > :03:37.their leader, or ask themselves what their position is. As a former
:03:38. > :03:41.Labour spin doctor, Jeremy Corbyn could win this election - should he
:03:42. > :03:44.stand down in case he wins it for a second time? I think there is a
:03:45. > :03:49.chance, a good chance that Jeremy could still win, although I have to
:03:50. > :03:52.say that there is anecdotal evidence that some of that support is
:03:53. > :03:56.softening, and a lot of members are upset about the EU referendum
:03:57. > :04:02.campaign, expressing a sense of buyers Morse. But he could win, but
:04:03. > :04:07.at what cost? What cost would a pyrrhic victory be? Why would it be
:04:08. > :04:12.a pyrrhic victory? What would happen is you cannot demand the respect of
:04:13. > :04:18.MPs, you have to earn it. But if he gets a second mandate from the
:04:19. > :04:22.members... It would be a victory, it would be a victory, but if you
:04:23. > :04:25.cannot command the respect of your MPs, that is tough. My worry for the
:04:26. > :04:29.future of the Labour Party, because I think there will be an election
:04:30. > :04:35.sooner than people think, and at the moment I think we are losing support
:04:36. > :04:39.in core working-class areas. I think that we stand the risk of losing up
:04:40. > :04:44.to about 100 seats. I think mark is right, the policies that Jeremy
:04:45. > :04:48.stands for quite acceptable, I do not think there is an ideological
:04:49. > :04:52.divide in the country. Lots of MPs want to fight for what you sing, the
:04:53. > :04:55.album and you make, but they want somebody who is really good at
:04:56. > :04:58.making those are given scholar who can really connect with the
:04:59. > :05:10.working-class people in the north. I do not think Jeremy is the right
:05:11. > :05:14.man. -- those arguments. There has been some polling showing that
:05:15. > :05:19.Labour is just neck and neck, head of the Tories. We don't really
:05:20. > :05:24.believe them now, do we? Apparently we only believe them when we see
:05:25. > :05:29.that Labour are losing votes. We have been told for ten months that
:05:30. > :05:34.he cannot be elected, that we are going to lose old until you give,
:05:35. > :05:47.for backwards in other by-elections, blues hundreds of council seats. --
:05:48. > :05:51.lose instead of trashing our party, they should have come up with a
:05:52. > :05:56.programme, done it through the open route, do not try to have a coup,
:05:57. > :06:00.respect the members, and we will see what they want. The way it has
:06:01. > :06:04.happened in the last five days, yes, many members are really upset about
:06:05. > :06:09.the EU referendum, I am really upset about the EU referendum, but the
:06:10. > :06:16.level of absurd, disappointment and anger over the last five days cannot
:06:17. > :06:21.be underestimated. -- the level of upset. What it Jeremy Corbyn beats
:06:22. > :06:27.Angela Eagle in this next contest? I have had a lot of e-mails about this
:06:28. > :06:32.issue, as you can imagine, and I have had very interesting comments
:06:33. > :06:37.from people who say to me, I voted for Jeremy, reluctantly I cannot
:06:38. > :06:43.vote for him again... But what if he wins? I don't think he will win. And
:06:44. > :06:48.if he does? If he wins, he wins, and then we have to look where we are to
:06:49. > :06:54.there, but I don't think he will win win. If he does, he will be even
:06:55. > :06:59.stronger, arguably, it would be the second mandate within a year, two
:07:00. > :07:04.leadership contests to be the top man of the Labour Party. But as
:07:05. > :07:10.Members of Parliament, we have a mandate from the electorate. We have
:07:11. > :07:17.the mandate of the 9 million voters who voted for us, and when I have
:07:18. > :07:24.been knocking on people's doors, both for Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband
:07:25. > :07:28.and Jeremy, for Gordon, they expressed dislike, we lost the
:07:29. > :07:32.election. For Ed, it was more hostile and we lost that election to
:07:33. > :07:36.a majority government. And on the doorsteps, people say to me, Labour
:07:37. > :07:43.voters say to me, if you have Jeremy as your leader at the next election,
:07:44. > :07:46.we will not... For you. It is completely irresponsible to put the
:07:47. > :07:52.Labour Party in a position of facing electoral oblivion. All right, Mark
:07:53. > :08:01.Serwotka, Alec will oblivion if Jeremy Corbyn continues as Labour
:08:02. > :08:04.leader. -- electoral oblivion. He can win the next general election.
:08:05. > :08:08.Any evidence you will get an approach from Scotland or the North
:08:09. > :08:13.of England, which Labour needs to win the general lecture? There have
:08:14. > :08:20.been four by-elections and Jeremy, or have been one, three with
:08:21. > :08:24.increased majorities. -- all have been won. The Tories are trashing
:08:25. > :08:32.the country, Jeremy has an alternative politics... Is he in
:08:33. > :08:36.touch with people on the issues of immigration? Is he in touch with
:08:37. > :08:40.people on the issues of the defence of our nation? I think absolutely he
:08:41. > :08:44.is, and you know why? Because he is prepared to do what most politicians
:08:45. > :08:50.do not seem to do, they gave positive case for immigration. But
:08:51. > :08:54.he has not acknowledged that Labour voters and ex Labour voters have
:08:55. > :09:02.anxieties about the freedom of movement. Yes, there are anxieties,
:09:03. > :09:06.and Labour has lost voters to Ukip, he wants to invest in public
:09:07. > :09:10.services... But he has not acknowledged that Labour voters are
:09:11. > :09:15.anxious about the free movement of people. Labour voters are worried
:09:16. > :09:20.about a lack of spending, public services... Net migration is the
:09:21. > :09:23.question I'm asking you. Asking about migration, when we have had
:09:24. > :09:29.deprivation in communities is one thing. Asking questions about, for
:09:30. > :09:35.example, when I had heart surgery, I am waiting for a transplant, by
:09:36. > :09:39.Chinese cardiologist with an Indian surgeon, with an Eastern European
:09:40. > :09:45.junior doctor we all know they do sterling work. My dad is a doctor,
:09:46. > :09:48.my brother is a doctor. Politicians are not making the positive case for
:09:49. > :09:52.immigration, Jeremy will make that positive case. Then he's not
:09:53. > :09:58.listening to Labour voters, that would seem to be a dereliction of
:09:59. > :10:04.duty. The reason I disagree with that... You not listening either?
:10:05. > :10:07.What I hear from members, 11 years of pay restraint, kids cannot afford
:10:08. > :10:12.houses because they cannot get onto the housing ladder and there are no
:10:13. > :10:17.council houses, it is easy to blame immigration when we are starved of
:10:18. > :10:21.public spending. If we invest in our communities, public services, a lot
:10:22. > :10:25.of that adamant will recede. The problem we have got at the moment, I
:10:26. > :10:30.think, is that Jeremy wants to make a positive case, but he has been
:10:31. > :10:34.prevented from doing so by the coup. Now that we're going to have an
:10:35. > :10:40.election, I welcome that, I think Jeremy will win. When he goes to the
:10:41. > :10:43.country is able to set out an anti-austerity, pro-public services,
:10:44. > :10:47.pro-investment agenda, do you know what? I think it will be so
:10:48. > :10:48.incredibly positive that the Tories will have to worry about the mess
:10:49. > :11:01.they have made. Former Labour spin doctor, do you
:11:02. > :11:07.buy that? No. The Labour Party was very united in terms of leadership.
:11:08. > :11:12.Jeremy went on holiday a couple of weeks before the vote, that is not
:11:13. > :11:18.leadership. If Jeremy stays, there will be a general election, we will
:11:19. > :11:22.lose about 100 seats, we will have a Tory majority and we will herald a
:11:23. > :11:26.large number of Ukip MPs coming in. I don't want to see that happen. I
:11:27. > :11:30.think we are fighting for the survival of the Labour Party. I know
:11:31. > :11:36.that different people have different views. One thing, to make weeks ago,
:11:37. > :11:44.we were praising the work that MPs didn't talking after the death of Jo
:11:45. > :11:47.Cox about how important MPs are, and now there views are being dismissed
:11:48. > :11:52.as if they are bad, rotten people. They work hard for the labour
:11:53. > :11:56.movement. Secondly, I know there are lots of new people coming into the
:11:57. > :12:00.party, and that is fine, what I don't want the Labour Party not to
:12:01. > :12:06.exist. I don't want a Tory- run state. I am begging everybody, the
:12:07. > :12:15.Labour Party cannot be allowed to fall apart. A final point, if Jeremy
:12:16. > :12:18.Corbyn wins, can you see the Labour Party splitting? Would you consider
:12:19. > :12:23.leaving? PHONE RINGS
:12:24. > :12:35.If Jeremy Corbyn wins his election as leader, we will go into the next
:12:36. > :12:40.-- would you consider leaving? If Jeremy Corbyn wins the election as
:12:41. > :12:43.leader we will go into the next election with him as leader. Thank
:12:44. > :12:56.you for joining us. Back to the Conservatives, and
:12:57. > :13:00.Michael Gove has announced that he wants to be the next leader of the
:13:01. > :13:05.Conservative Party, and also Prime Minister, which was the shock news
:13:06. > :13:09.about two hours ago. They used to say a week was a long time in
:13:10. > :13:14.politics, now it is about a minute. We are waiting for the official
:13:15. > :13:18.announcement from the full ormer Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, who
:13:19. > :13:22.had been expecting Michael Gove's support. Boris Johnson is expected
:13:23. > :13:28.to announce that he is standing. We were told it would be at about
:13:29. > :13:34.quarter to 11. There are two prominent Leave campaigners up
:13:35. > :13:37.against each other. Theresa May has put her hat in the ring, having
:13:38. > :14:01.campaigned to stay in the EU. Let's speak to Baroness Parsee. -- Warsi.
:14:02. > :14:09.How do you react to Theresa May's leadership bid? Yellow might she
:14:10. > :14:12.gave a brilliant speech. All the points about her experience, her
:14:13. > :14:21.humour, the way she engages with members of Parliament, provision for
:14:22. > :14:25.the party. A few days ago, I put out about 13 questions that I said all
:14:26. > :14:29.future leadership contenders should answer, and I think she answered
:14:30. > :14:41.about 80% of them. The most powerful point she made was that those of us
:14:42. > :14:44.in Westminster need to look beyond Westminster and realise this is not
:14:45. > :14:56.a game. It is time for politicians to layout very clearly what their
:14:57. > :15:00.view is. In terms of the negotiations and no sector end and,
:15:01. > :15:03.a very good lunch. What about the news that Michael
:15:04. > :15:06.Gove also wants to be the next leader of your party and the next
:15:07. > :15:22.Prime Minister? I am quite surprised. I thought he was in
:15:23. > :15:27.this... Once David resigned, I thought it was the end of the
:15:28. > :15:33.matter. I was quite surprised that he announced his candidature. I am
:15:34. > :15:40.also surprised at what he said. He talks about healing and speaking for
:15:41. > :15:47.all and bringing the country together, and really, from my
:15:48. > :15:52.experience of Michael and his approach towards teachers and the
:15:53. > :15:56.legal profession, and certain minorities, that is not the Michael
:15:57. > :16:04.I recognise. What about the fact that in his statement is he really
:16:05. > :16:10.undermined the character and credibility of his very close Leave
:16:11. > :16:15.campaigner, Boris Johnson? Quote, I have come reluctantly to the
:16:16. > :16:20.conclusion that Boris Johnson cannot provide the leadership or build the
:16:21. > :16:26.team for the task ahead. I don't know how he came to that conclusion.
:16:27. > :16:31.For me, I want to the back to what I have been saying. This is about the
:16:32. > :16:36.issues, the politics of politics, which is what this EU referendum
:16:37. > :16:41.started to become. It is what upset and concerned me about the Leave
:16:42. > :16:48.campaign. Politicians make these statements, Victoria. We ratchet up
:16:49. > :16:51.the rhetoric about immigration, and then real people feel the
:16:52. > :16:57.consequences on the streets. One of the biggest thing that I have asked
:16:58. > :17:01.leadership contenders to do is to run positive campaigns, to set out a
:17:02. > :17:06.vision for the party and the country, and to pledge that, going
:17:07. > :17:10.forward, they will not run the type of divisive, xenophobic campaign is
:17:11. > :17:19.that we saw the party sadly run during the May oral election and
:17:20. > :17:23.during the EU referendum. We have seen increased hate crime on the
:17:24. > :17:29.streets which you and the media have been reporting consistently since
:17:30. > :17:39.the Brexit result. Let's bring in Michael fabricant, who voted to
:17:40. > :17:44.leave and is backing... Did you know he was going to throw his hat in the
:17:45. > :17:49.ring? I did not know he was going to. I knew was a possibility. I and
:17:50. > :17:58.many others were persuading him hard to do just that. Why? I think his
:17:59. > :18:03.purpose and his logical mind, clarity of thought, are precisely
:18:04. > :18:06.what we need in a Prime Minister, particularly in this difficult
:18:07. > :18:16.period where we negotiate our Brexit. Let me bring in Conservative
:18:17. > :18:21.MP Damian Green. You are supporting Theresa May - why? I think she is
:18:22. > :18:27.the best person for the job. She has shown in office that she is tough
:18:28. > :18:31.and can take decisions, can implement difficult negotiations.
:18:32. > :18:34.And the vision she has set out, which is of a conservatism that
:18:35. > :18:41.helps people who are not privilege, if you like, at the bottom of the
:18:42. > :18:46.economic heap. I have always believed in that. Do you think she
:18:47. > :18:51.was vague on net migration when she was asked about free movement of
:18:52. > :18:59.people? No, because immigration is clearly a huge issue, and it is
:19:00. > :19:03.difficult to bring it down while at the same time making sure that we
:19:04. > :19:08.get the people we want in this country who can contribute to our
:19:09. > :19:11.economy and society. I think we now have the added element of what kind
:19:12. > :19:18.of relationship we will have in terms of movement from other EU
:19:19. > :19:22.countries. I can't think of anyone better to do that job than Theresa
:19:23. > :19:27.May. She is already a master the details and is well ahead of the
:19:28. > :19:33.candidates in that regard. Michael, what about the fact that Michael
:19:34. > :19:38.Gove will be accused of some -- by some of stabbing Boris Johnson in
:19:39. > :19:44.the back? I don't know who will accuse him of that, apart from
:19:45. > :19:48.possibly Boris Johnson. People watching the programme as we broke
:19:49. > :19:51.the news have done that. At the end of the day, I supported Boris
:19:52. > :19:57.Johnson originally, but only because I thought it was important that he
:19:58. > :20:02.have a steady rock behind him in the shape of Michael Gove. Quite
:20:03. > :20:07.clearly, Michael Gove has been unable to have confidence in Boris's
:20:08. > :20:14.ability to form an effective team. I always wanted Michael to stand on
:20:15. > :20:19.his own anyway. He has a steeliness of purpose and clarity of mind,
:20:20. > :20:24.which we really need in the next two three years. Showmanship alone is
:20:25. > :20:29.not going to be enough. I welcome this move. Even though he has always
:20:30. > :20:34.said he had absolutely no ambitions for the top job, do you trust a man
:20:35. > :20:41.that changes his mind at the last minute? I don't want to draw
:20:42. > :20:45.comparisons because it might not work well for Michael Gove, but I
:20:46. > :20:51.remember Margaret Thatcher said more or less the same thing. Many people
:20:52. > :21:01.would say that she was an amazing Prime Minister. Thank you very much,
:21:02. > :21:04.all of you. It is one week since that historic Brexit vote. So much
:21:05. > :21:15.has happened since then. How do voters feel one week on? Kate
:21:16. > :21:21.Fanning is in Manchester. In the studio, Bupinder and Fahad. They
:21:22. > :21:26.voted to leave. 'S in Salford, John Murphy regrets voting Remain and
:21:27. > :21:32.thinks that Leave is the best outcome. You are a retired
:21:33. > :21:43.businessman. Why do you think we should have voted leave? I voted
:21:44. > :21:49.because of my wallet, my heart said that I should Vote Leave. I was a
:21:50. > :21:56.subject of project fear, to be honest. But I regret it now. Leaving
:21:57. > :22:01.is the best we can do. You don't need to regret it because it was
:22:02. > :22:08.Leave in the end, so it is fine for you? Yes, fine. Very happy.
:22:09. > :22:12.Bupinder, you are in your 30s. You're from East London. Are you
:22:13. > :22:19.still dancing on an hour because of the result? Not dancing. Tell me
:22:20. > :22:25.why. I think it is people power, autonomy, a bit of freedom. Cameron
:22:26. > :22:29.went to Europe, the Europeans didn't take him seriously, and now they
:22:30. > :22:33.have to take everybody seriously. You don't look that happy, if you
:22:34. > :22:43.don't mind me saying, in the fact that you one. -- that you won. I am
:22:44. > :22:51.a quiet optimist. That is better than being jubilant. Everything has
:22:52. > :22:56.started to go to plan, the markets have stabilised. If you look at
:22:57. > :23:00.Jaguar Land Rover and the success of that, the foreign markets, the
:23:01. > :23:08.Commonwealth. I am quietly optimistic. Katie, Bupinder is
:23:09. > :23:14.quietly optimistic, what about you? I am ecstatic as I have we -- I
:23:15. > :23:20.think we have a great future with more control over trade and borders.
:23:21. > :23:23.More important league, we have our freedom and democracy and
:23:24. > :23:33.sovereignty back. -- most importantly. Fahad, what about you?
:23:34. > :23:41.I am happy. Thank you for your company. We are back tomorrow.
:23:42. > :23:43.MUSIC: Jupiter, from The Planets, by Gustav Holst
:23:44. > :23:47.MUSIC: West Side Story, by Leonard Bernstein
:23:48. > :23:51.MUSIC: Romeo And Juliet, by Tchaikovsky