08/07/2016

:00:12. > :00:14.Hello it's Friday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:15. > :00:20.Five police officers are killed when snipers open fire at a protest

:00:21. > :00:22.in Dallas against the shooting dead of two black men.

:00:23. > :00:32.Several more police are critically wounded.

:00:33. > :00:34.I was walking, and the sniper just started shooting,

:00:35. > :00:36.and all of the cops are getting shot.

:00:37. > :00:39.I just saw the cops bending over, there were five or six cops,

:00:40. > :00:45.Three suspects are in custody, but police are exchanging fire

:00:46. > :00:47.and negotiating with a fourth suspect who has threatened

:00:48. > :01:00.There are unconfirmed reports that a fourth suspect has shot himself. We

:01:01. > :01:04.are continuing to ask for the support of the public. I can tell

:01:05. > :01:06.you I have never been more proud of being a police officer and being a

:01:07. > :01:10.part of this great and noble profession. This is the scene from

:01:11. > :01:13.downtown Dallas, Texas. We'll bring you the very latest

:01:14. > :01:17.on this fast-moving story. And we'll be speaking to a Polish

:01:18. > :01:19.family living in fear after their garden shed was set

:01:20. > :01:22.alight, and this death threat Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:23. > :01:41.we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE,

:01:42. > :01:43.and if you text, you will be charged "They planned to kill as many

:01:44. > :01:50.officers as they could" - the words of the chief of police

:01:51. > :01:54.of Dallas in Texas after five of his officers were shot dead

:01:55. > :01:56.when snipers opened fire during a protest

:01:57. > :02:01.against police violence. Six others were injured,

:02:02. > :02:25.some critically. Somebody is really are armed to the

:02:26. > :02:36.teeth. This is not... This is not one person.

:02:37. > :02:39.That was the moment shots rang out as the snipers fired

:02:40. > :03:07.You can see one of the snipers in these pictures firing shots,

:03:08. > :03:10.and the sound of police sirens wailing in the distance.

:03:11. > :03:14.Later on in this video, you see the sniper shoot someone

:03:15. > :03:19.who appears to be a police officer at point blank range -

:03:20. > :03:22.we aren't showing you those images because they are so graphic.

:03:23. > :03:25.It happened at a Black Lives Matter protest following the fatal shooting

:03:26. > :03:28.of two black men by white police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota.

:03:29. > :03:30.Before the shots rang out, the protests were peaceful.

:03:31. > :03:38.These people described what they saw.

:03:39. > :03:41.I was walking, and the sniper just started shooting,

:03:42. > :03:43.and all of the cops are getting shot.

:03:44. > :03:46.I just saw the cops bending over, there were five or six cops,

:03:47. > :03:50.It was right after the rally, we were just walking to the car.

:03:51. > :03:52.All the cops... How many?

:03:53. > :03:57.We were running, they just kept shooting, we don't know

:03:58. > :04:02.But I didn't see anybody else get shot, it was just the cops.

:04:03. > :04:05.I didn't see nobody else get shot but the cops.

:04:06. > :04:31.I am in downtown Dallas, and it appears the Police Department is

:04:32. > :04:35.ending this five-hour stand-off, with the snipers in the building

:04:36. > :04:40.here. We understand that the individual actually shot himself.

:04:41. > :04:45.About 45 minutes ago, police set of flash grenades inside the building

:04:46. > :04:50.behind me, which actually a local community college. They set those

:04:51. > :04:53.flash grenades of in the hope of disorientating this individual. When

:04:54. > :04:57.it happened, apparently there were were effective, and police have got

:04:58. > :05:03.inside and apparently the individual is deceased from a self-inflicted

:05:04. > :05:09.gunshot. Talk us through what it was like as this unfolded and how people

:05:10. > :05:13.were reacting? This was one of quite a few protest marches which were

:05:14. > :05:16.happening all across the country. Dallas has had several of these in

:05:17. > :05:20.the last few years, as these high-profile police shootings have

:05:21. > :05:25.happened across the country. Fortunately none have happened here.

:05:26. > :05:29.As the protest march has happened, the police officers are out here to

:05:30. > :05:31.protect the marchers, so they can walk through the streets and go

:05:32. > :05:36.through the intersections and make sure they are not hit by any traffic

:05:37. > :05:42.or anything. So these officers, protecting the protest is, were

:05:43. > :05:46.ambushed when at least one, perhaps more, snipers, opened fire on them.

:05:47. > :05:52.-- the protesters. It is horrific, nothing like this has happened in

:05:53. > :05:57.the 26 years I have been in journalism, where you have 11

:05:58. > :06:00.officers shot, five dead. It is something the city is trying to get

:06:01. > :06:05.its head around right now. Even the mayors 90 minutes ago, telling

:06:06. > :06:11.people, don't come to work tomorrow in downtown Dallas, because much of

:06:12. > :06:14.downtown remains a crime scene. It will be ours, perhaps through

:06:15. > :06:17.Friday, until they get the area cleared and collect the evidence.

:06:18. > :06:22.Jason were you actually there covering the story anyway when the

:06:23. > :06:25.shots were first fired warning I am wondering what reaction there was in

:06:26. > :06:30.the crowd and amongst police when the first shots were fired? Yes, I

:06:31. > :06:35.was not physically here when the first shots were fired. I have

:06:36. > :06:38.talked to quite a few people, I have seen the video, I have talked to

:06:39. > :06:42.quite a few journalists who were here rolling when this happened.

:06:43. > :06:46.Everyone tells me the march was winding down, they were almost

:06:47. > :06:51.finished with it and they were walking back to where it began, and

:06:52. > :06:55.that's when the shots rang out. It was uncertain where the threat was

:06:56. > :07:00.coming from, but there was a volley of shots every few minutes.

:07:01. > :07:04.Obviously, this has been unfolding in the last few hours, so very much

:07:05. > :07:10.the focus has been on what has been happening there. Perhaps more than

:07:11. > :07:16.why. Is there a sense that this is certainly anti-police, or is it the

:07:17. > :07:23.possibility of this being a terrorist action? Not as far as we

:07:24. > :07:27.know right now. The White House has reached out to the mayor of this

:07:28. > :07:31.city. This is clearly anti-police. It changes the entire paradigms of

:07:32. > :07:39.this conversation in this country. Never before in this situation,

:07:40. > :07:42.nationwide, in the United States, have we had an attack on police like

:07:43. > :07:48.this. So this will clearly change what is being done, response, and

:07:49. > :07:52.I'm curious to know whether we will have many other protests like this,

:07:53. > :07:58.whether the police will even allow this. And obviously, we are seeing

:07:59. > :08:01.police behind you dealing with this - very difficult now doubtful police

:08:02. > :08:06.to be killing with an incident in which were that they have been the

:08:07. > :08:11.target? It is. I was walking up to the scene here in the minutes after

:08:12. > :08:14.it happened - several police were angry, upset and yelling,

:08:15. > :08:19.understandably, realising their colleagues had been shot. I have

:08:20. > :08:26.seen officers hugging out here. This is something the city of Dallas has

:08:27. > :08:30.purposely tried to avoid. The city Police Department has made it a

:08:31. > :08:37.point not to pull over people, say, with broken tail-lights, not to

:08:38. > :08:40.engage people, they have seen what has happened in the country, and

:08:41. > :08:45.this city has hoped to avoid that. But clearly it did not happen

:08:46. > :08:50.tonight. This city will be waking up in five or six hours to a tragedy.

:08:51. > :08:56.As you say, this has been going on through the night. Have you been

:08:57. > :09:02.able to gauge much of a sense of the reaction that there has been in the

:09:03. > :09:07.city? I have talked to a handful of protesters who were out here. Many

:09:08. > :09:13.of them are still out here, they can't go home yet. Even the

:09:14. > :09:20.protesters were denouncing this. They said they were out here trying

:09:21. > :09:23.to stand up for black lives, specifically, but they respect all

:09:24. > :09:27.lives. They don't want to see anybody get hurt. We have heard from

:09:28. > :09:36.the Attorney-General of the state, from the mayor, local politicians,

:09:37. > :09:40.even the White House. Whether this country is ready to address this

:09:41. > :09:44.issue, when and how the politicians addressed this, that is something a

:09:45. > :09:49.lot of people will be watching and curious to see how it unfolds. I

:09:50. > :09:53.spoke to Jason about ten minutes ago. We have been unable to confirm

:09:54. > :09:58.those reports which he mentioned that a fourth suspect has shot

:09:59. > :10:01.himself. The latest officially that we have comes from Dallas police

:10:02. > :10:05.chief David Brown, who has said that three suspects are in custody and

:10:06. > :10:17.negotiations have been taking place with a fourth at a garage.

:10:18. > :10:19.Currently we are in negotiations with the suspect involved in these

:10:20. > :10:22.shootings at the garage of El Centro in downtown Dallas.

:10:23. > :10:25.This suspect we are negotiating with the last 45 minutes has been

:10:26. > :10:27.exchanging gunfire with us and not being very cooperative

:10:28. > :10:35.Before I came here, I asked for plans to end this stand-off,

:10:36. > :10:38.and as soon as I am done here, I will be presented

:10:39. > :10:48.In addition to this second-floor garage, as we recap the previous

:10:49. > :10:51.press release, we have in custody a female who was in the same area

:10:52. > :10:58.of the El Centro garage, and we followed a Mercedes with two

:10:59. > :11:10.suspects who had camouflage bags, who officers ended up stopping

:11:11. > :11:14.on traffic in the Oak Cliff area near Polk and 67,

:11:15. > :11:20.and they are in custody and being interviewed.

:11:21. > :11:29.The suspect that we are negotiating with that has exchanged gunfire

:11:30. > :11:34.with us over the last 45 minutes has told our negotiators that the end

:11:35. > :11:38.is coming, and he's going to hurt and kill more of us,

:11:39. > :11:42.meaning law enforcement, and that there are bombs

:11:43. > :11:47.all over the place in this garage and in downtown,

:11:48. > :11:53.so we are being very careful in our tactics so that we don't

:11:54. > :11:56.injure or put any of our officers in harm's way, including

:11:57. > :12:07.the citizens of Dallas, as we negotiate further.

:12:08. > :12:11.We still don't have a complete comfort level that we have all

:12:12. > :12:15.the suspects, so we will continue a very, very rigorous investigation

:12:16. > :12:29.We are likely to be working throughout the early morning hours

:12:30. > :12:32.of Friday until we are satisfied that all suspects have been captured

:12:33. > :12:35.and have had the opportunity to be interviewed so that we can fully

:12:36. > :12:41.understand what has motivated this attack on our officers.

:12:42. > :12:46.As I mentioned in the press release before we came out,

:12:47. > :12:52.one of our officers who was in surgery who we had hopes

:12:53. > :12:59.would survive passed, bringing the total count

:13:00. > :13:02.of officers passed away to four - three Dallas police officers and one

:13:03. > :13:09.We are continuing to ask for the public's prayers

:13:10. > :13:14.of support and encouragement, but I can just tell you,

:13:15. > :13:17.I have never been more proud of a police officer and being a part

:13:18. > :13:23.of this great, noble profession, seeing the courage,

:13:24. > :13:27.the professionalism and just their grit to stay on the scene

:13:28. > :13:32.in an area, looking for suspects, knowing that we are vulnerable.

:13:33. > :13:36.We don't know where they are, and our downtown is very large,

:13:37. > :13:43.with a lot of high buildings, and some of the stories I have heard

:13:44. > :13:46.from officers talking about what happened, running

:13:47. > :13:51.toward gunfire to help the injured officers,

:13:52. > :13:54.to get them transported to the hospital by patrol car,

:13:55. > :13:57.not having the time to wait for an ambulance, and just so many

:13:58. > :14:11.And since he spoke, there has been confirmation that a fifth police

:14:12. > :14:14.officer was killed in the snipers shooting. And we are still unable to

:14:15. > :14:19.confirm those reports that a fourth suspect has shot himself dead at the

:14:20. > :14:23.scene. David Brown there saying that they were still in an unfolded

:14:24. > :14:26.situation. There are reports that he has shot himself dead. But we are

:14:27. > :14:30.unable to confirm that at the moment. There has now been news that

:14:31. > :14:36.one of the police officers killed has been identified. He is

:14:37. > :14:43.43-year-old Brent Thompson. He joined the Dallas Area Rapid Transit

:14:44. > :14:46.Force in 2009. His department has issued a statement, which says... As

:14:47. > :14:51.you can imagine, our hearts are broken. This touches every part of

:14:52. > :14:53.our organisation. We have received countless extra shows of support and

:14:54. > :14:58.sympathy from around the world through the evening. We are grateful

:14:59. > :15:00.for every message. Thank you. That is the first of the police officers

:15:01. > :15:07.who has been formally identified. The police chief has spoken of two

:15:08. > :15:28.snipers. He was giving an please call the Dallas Police

:15:29. > :15:31.Department. Call 911 and give us that

:15:32. > :15:36.information so that we can bring We also believe that these suspects

:15:37. > :15:44.have threatened to plant a bomb We have reached out to our federal

:15:45. > :15:50.law enforcement partners, both the FBI and the ATF,

:15:51. > :16:00.to help us search for both these suspects, or maybe it is more,

:16:01. > :16:04.and to do a very thorough search of this area where we believe

:16:05. > :16:10.there might be a bomb planted. And again, I will quickly take some

:16:11. > :16:13.questions, but I would like to mind you, we have got one

:16:14. > :16:16.of the suspects cornered, and I need to get back and take

:16:17. > :16:19.care of the business Let me finish, and then

:16:20. > :16:25.we will take the questions. I ask everybody to focus on one

:16:26. > :16:28.thing right now, and that is the Dallas police officers,

:16:29. > :16:32.their families, those that are deceased, those that

:16:33. > :16:36.are in the hospital Let's all come together

:16:37. > :16:45.and support our police officers. I believe we have got one

:16:46. > :16:52.of the best forces in the nation, and we've done things with civil

:16:53. > :16:56.rights in the right way, and we've done it for

:16:57. > :17:00.the safety of our citizens. So, please, let's come together

:17:01. > :17:09.right now as a city. There's been huge anger

:17:10. > :17:18.in the United States after the fatal shootings of two black men

:17:19. > :17:20.by white police officers. Philando Castile was shot dead

:17:21. > :17:23.at a traffic stop in Minnesota, on Wednesday, while Alton Sterling

:17:24. > :17:25.was killed by police a day Both incidents were caught

:17:26. > :17:28.on camera, reigniting what has become a national debate

:17:29. > :17:31.about police violence. The incidents prompted US

:17:32. > :17:33.President Barack Obama to make an emotional appeal

:17:34. > :17:54.for urgent police reform. When incidents like this occur

:17:55. > :17:59.there's a big chunk of our fellow citizens that feels as if, because

:18:00. > :18:07.of the colour of their skin, they are not being treated the same. And

:18:08. > :18:15.that hurts. And that should trouble all of us. This is not just a black

:18:16. > :18:22.issue. It's not just an Hispanic issue. This is an American issue

:18:23. > :18:32.that we should all care about, all fair-minded people should be

:18:33. > :18:34.concerned. Let me just say, we have extraordinary appreciation and

:18:35. > :18:37.respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives

:18:38. > :18:39.on the line to protect us every single day. They've got a dangerous

:18:40. > :18:57.job. It is a tough job. And reacting to today's events,

:18:58. > :18:59.Texas Senator and former presidential candidate Ted Cruz

:19:00. > :19:02.who says in a tweet - "May God protect our fallen

:19:03. > :19:04.heroes and bring peace Our correspondent Peter Bowes

:19:05. > :19:12.joins me now from Los Angeles. The latest are is there are a number

:19:13. > :19:17.of reports from local media that the fourth suspect, the person who had

:19:18. > :19:20.been in a garage for several hours, the police had been trying to

:19:21. > :19:25.negotiate with this person. He had made various threats saying things

:19:26. > :19:29.like the end is coming, threatening to go and hurt and kill more police

:19:30. > :19:33.officers saying that there were bombs all over the place. Local

:19:34. > :19:37.reports say this person has now killed himself. This is not

:19:38. > :19:41.confirmed by the Dallas police department. In fact, the last word

:19:42. > :19:44.that we heard from the police was, I will quote you what they were saying

:19:45. > :19:47.on the Twitter feed, it's been a devastating night. We are sad to

:19:48. > :19:53.report a fifth officer has died. That was about an hour ago. We are

:19:54. > :19:59.still waiting for, if indeed this has happened, still waiting for

:20:00. > :20:04.confirmation. That would probably bring to an end this tragic night.

:20:05. > :20:08.The police a few hours ago were saying that the area of downtown

:20:09. > :20:12.Dallas was still a crime scene and it will probably remain that way for

:20:13. > :20:15.a number of hours as the investigation continues. People are

:20:16. > :20:19.being told if you work there don't turn up for work in the morning,

:20:20. > :20:23.it's still a very sensitive area. We were hearing from the police chief

:20:24. > :20:29.saying they'll be looking into exactly why this has happened. This

:20:30. > :20:34.is all very recently unfolding. Is there any sense from police whether

:20:35. > :20:36.they are certain this was specifically antipolice in the wake

:20:37. > :20:42.of events that have been happening in the United States or are they

:20:43. > :20:48.looking at a potential terrorist element? Well, I am sure they're

:20:49. > :20:52.looking at all likelihoods. They haven't specifically addressed it in

:20:53. > :20:58.those terms, that it could be linked to the shootings over the last

:20:59. > :21:02.couple of days. People are putting two and two together saying this was

:21:03. > :21:07.a protest, a demonstration of people coming out on the streets to express

:21:08. > :21:13.feelings about what has happened in two separate cities in America

:21:14. > :21:16.earlier this week and this seems to be targeting local police officers.

:21:17. > :21:20.Clearly police officers in Dallas who had nothing to do with the

:21:21. > :21:25.incidents in the other cities. Whether this is a terrorist attack

:21:26. > :21:28.that's unrelated to other events around America, we don't know. The

:21:29. > :21:33.police haven't specifically addressed it in those terms. What

:21:34. > :21:38.reaction has there been more widely to this? Well, this has been

:21:39. > :21:43.unfolding extremely late at night and a lot of Americans will be

:21:44. > :21:48.waking up to this news. People who have been talking about it, you

:21:49. > :21:53.mentioned Senator Ted Cruz tweeted about it, people have been talking

:21:54. > :21:57.in terms of thoughts for the families and the loved ones of those

:21:58. > :21:59.police officers who have died. People are not particularly

:22:00. > :22:02.addressing the potential politics and the debates that are clearly

:22:03. > :22:07.going to happen over the next few weeks. The time isn't quite right

:22:08. > :22:11.for that. The focus in Dallas has been on bringing the situation, a

:22:12. > :22:15.terrifying situation for people involved in this protest, the focus

:22:16. > :22:21.has simply been on bringing that situation under control and making

:22:22. > :22:26.the city safe again. This was a protest against the most recent

:22:27. > :22:31.shootings dead of two black men by white police officers. How sensitive

:22:32. > :22:37.are race relations in the United States right now? I don't think they

:22:38. > :22:40.could be more sensitive. It's an acutely difficult situation. I think

:22:41. > :22:44.people are very much aware of what's happened and this isn't the first

:22:45. > :22:51.time that incidents like this have happened. There's been a litany of

:22:52. > :22:55.cases in recent years, very similar circumstances of black men losing

:22:56. > :22:59.their lives, being shot by police officers and it is a continuing

:23:00. > :23:05.debate as to why this is happening and we just heard from President

:23:06. > :23:12.Obama addressing the issue again that there is a large section of

:23:13. > :23:16.people who live in this country who feel because of the colour of their

:23:17. > :23:19.skin they're discriminated against, they're not treated the same to use

:23:20. > :23:24.his words. He said all fire-minded people should be concerned about

:23:25. > :23:27.this situation. -- all fair-minded people should be concerned about

:23:28. > :23:29.this situation. It isn't an issue focussed on one particular group,

:23:30. > :23:33.it's something everyone in this country should be concerned about.

:23:34. > :23:36.It is palpable living here. The people are concerned. People are

:23:37. > :23:40.worried, I think. People are fearful when we see things like this

:23:41. > :23:44.unfolding in major cities like Dallas, fearful of what could happen

:23:45. > :23:50.next. I think people are acutely aware that there is a major, major

:23:51. > :23:57.problem here to be resolved. In terms of security going forward,

:23:58. > :24:01.this has been an attack on police, obviously police are now having to

:24:02. > :24:06.deal with presumably forces across the nation will be looking at what

:24:07. > :24:11.they need to do about security potentially? Yes, and there are a

:24:12. > :24:15.number of demonstrations planned over the next few days during the

:24:16. > :24:19.weekend in cities around the country. Clearly, in the light of

:24:20. > :24:24.what's happened in Dallas local police forces will be looking at

:24:25. > :24:26.those planned gatherings, looking at security issues and perhaps trying

:24:27. > :24:32.to see what they can learn from what's happened in Dallas. It's an

:24:33. > :24:37.extremely difficult situation for those police forces. They are

:24:38. > :24:40.already acutely aware of security considerations and you think about

:24:41. > :24:47.it and you are almost at a loss to think what more could they do to try

:24:48. > :24:50.to protect huge crowds of people descending into a city centre to

:24:51. > :24:55.exercise their democratic right to protest and to make a point and to

:24:56. > :24:58.express their feelings about a situation. There is only so much

:24:59. > :25:02.that the authorities can do. Yes, I am sure they will be acutely aware

:25:03. > :25:07.of it going forward over the next few days especially. For viewers

:25:08. > :25:12.just joining us, bring us up to date with the latest that you have on

:25:13. > :25:18.what has unfolded there in Dallas. Well, yes, this unfolded in Dallas

:25:19. > :25:22.during the evening. It was an otherwise peaceful protest to allow

:25:23. > :25:29.people, and they were freely doing this, to express feelings about the

:25:30. > :25:33.shooting dead of two men in two other cities, Minnesota and

:25:34. > :25:36.Louisiana. This was a peaceful demonstration up until mid-evening

:25:37. > :25:40.when people started hearing shots that were fired and the police chief

:25:41. > :25:44.later said he believed that there were a couple of snipers at an

:25:45. > :25:48.elevated position above the crowd as he described it, who were focussing

:25:49. > :25:55.particularly on the police officers that they could see below him. In

:25:56. > :25:59.fact, he used the expression that the individuals involved had

:26:00. > :26:02.triangulated in different positions aiming their rifles at the crowd on

:26:03. > :26:05.the ground, in other words, suggesting this had been planned in

:26:06. > :26:09.some way. That they had some knowledge of the direction of the

:26:10. > :26:12.protest and the march true the -- and the march through the city

:26:13. > :26:18.centre. Peter, thank you very much.

:26:19. > :26:23.That's the latest live from Los Angeles.

:26:24. > :26:27.John Matthews is a former Dallas police officer and is now executive

:26:28. > :26:30.director of an organisation which looks at public safety. He has been

:26:31. > :26:35.giving me his reaction to the shootings. Well, it's absolutely

:26:36. > :26:41.horrifying what's been unfolding. Well, it is absolutely horrifying,

:26:42. > :26:43.what's been unfolding. Seeing fellow officers gunned down,

:26:44. > :26:46.fellow officers targeted in a mass shooting ambush-style attack

:26:47. > :26:48.like this, it is absolutely unprecedented, and it's a horrific

:26:49. > :26:50.day for law enforcement I know that you have spoken

:26:51. > :26:54.to police officers in Dallas. There was chaos when the shooting

:26:55. > :27:00.was going on, there was panic, there was concern for their fellow

:27:01. > :27:02.officers, and above all, concern for the safety

:27:03. > :27:14.of the citizens, and our hearts go out to the family members of those

:27:15. > :27:17.officers that have lost their lives, and of the officers that were

:27:18. > :27:20.injured in the line of duty tonight. As you say, obviously police

:27:21. > :27:22.here are dealing with an incident in which they were targeted,

:27:23. > :27:24.officers were killed. As a former officer, how difficult

:27:25. > :27:28.would a situation like that be? It is extremely difficult,

:27:29. > :27:31.because you are out there trying to do your job,

:27:32. > :27:37.protecting the public. They were out there guarding

:27:38. > :27:41.at protecting the demonstrators so that they could have a peaceful

:27:42. > :27:43.demonstration, and now the protectors of society

:27:44. > :27:46.have the targets on their back. They are the ones that

:27:47. > :27:48.are being victimised. These snipers intentionally fired

:27:49. > :27:50.upon the police, and wanted officers and victims,

:27:51. > :27:54.and as a mass shooting expert, I can tell you, this is the first

:27:55. > :27:58.time in the US in the mass shootings that we've had that we have had law

:27:59. > :28:01.enforcement officers actually targeted in one

:28:02. > :28:04.of these mass shootings. How concerned are you about

:28:05. > :28:11.what this says about the faith that some have in the police

:28:12. > :28:13.in the United States right now? Well, I think we've been working

:28:14. > :28:19.on police and community relations for a number of years,

:28:20. > :28:22.I think in law enforcement we have been very proactive in reaching out

:28:23. > :28:25.to the faith-based community and the very diverse communities

:28:26. > :28:28.that we have in our cities. I think there is a tremendous amount

:28:29. > :28:31.of anxiety out there right now, and I think it's being manifested

:28:32. > :28:34.in ways beyond public discourse, and manifested in ways

:28:35. > :28:41.like we see tonight, where officers, the protectors

:28:42. > :28:45.of society, are now becoming targets Officers all across this nation,

:28:46. > :28:53.not just in Dallas, but everywhere, have got to be on high alert now

:28:54. > :28:56.at all times in all situations. These protests have come,

:28:57. > :29:00.not just the protest there, there have been many protests

:29:01. > :29:03.in the United States, after two fatal shootings

:29:04. > :29:06.of black men in one week. If you look at the statistics,

:29:07. > :29:10.they show that if you are black, you are more likely to be

:29:11. > :29:13.shot dead by the police. Do some police have an issue

:29:14. > :29:17.with black people? I think the media doesn't report

:29:18. > :29:20.the entire situation, but we have over 57,000 assaults

:29:21. > :29:23.on law enforcement officers We average 144 law enforcement

:29:24. > :29:33.officers killed in the line of duty every single year for the past ten

:29:34. > :29:36.years, and so I think you need to look at the totality

:29:37. > :29:40.of the circumstances out there, and in law enforcement,

:29:41. > :29:42.it is a very, very dangerous profession, and we have officers

:29:43. > :29:46.that are assaulted and killed almost each and every day,

:29:47. > :29:49.and yet it doesn't make the national In the specific cases, though,

:29:50. > :29:54.that are highlighted, and obviously the one particularly

:29:55. > :29:57.in the spotlight right now is Philando Castile,

:29:58. > :30:00.because he was shot dead in Minnesota, and his girlfriend

:30:01. > :30:03.live streamed the aftermath with a police officer holding a gun

:30:04. > :30:06.through the window of the car as she is saying to the officer,

:30:07. > :30:11.he was just telling you he was going to produce his ID,

:30:12. > :30:28.and he did inform you he had a gun Let me tell you, law enforcement is

:30:29. > :30:34.a very, very stressful job. You are out there trying to protect the

:30:35. > :30:39.citizens, and yet you are trying to make sure that at the end of every

:30:40. > :30:44.day, you get to go home each night. Officers coming across suspects with

:30:45. > :30:48.guns, or individuals who might have guns, yes, with the 900,000 officers

:30:49. > :30:54.we have out on the street, there might be some missteps. But overall,

:30:55. > :30:57.the vast majority of law enforcement, they are out there

:30:58. > :31:02.protecting society and making sure that they get to go home at night.

:31:03. > :31:05.To those concerns and tensions which you describe make some police

:31:06. > :31:12.trigger-happy? I think it makes police more aware, if anything, that

:31:13. > :31:16.may be there's community concerns. I think it makes us aware of the

:31:17. > :31:32.situation is that we are in and that we have got our guard up.

:31:33. > :31:34.So in law enforcement I see the entire spectrum of officers that

:31:35. > :31:38.might be nervous going for a call for service, but I can tell

:31:39. > :31:41.you I see officers that are reticent about taking their gun out

:31:42. > :31:46.of their holster, officers that maybe should be

:31:47. > :31:49.in a deadly force situation, and don't even draw a Taser,

:31:50. > :31:51.so I think you see the entire spectrum out there.

:31:52. > :31:53.Again, you have got a small percentage of the population,

:31:54. > :31:55.about 900,000 of us, protecting 330 million people

:31:56. > :31:58.You are executive director of the Community Safety Institute.

:31:59. > :32:01.How does this lack of trust now get dealt with going forward?

:32:02. > :32:04.I think we need to do a better job in law enforcement.

:32:05. > :32:07.We have got to be as proactive as possible in reaching out

:32:08. > :32:09.to our community members and building those bridges

:32:10. > :32:11.and saying that we are there to protect and serve.

:32:12. > :32:15.We want to make sure there is trust on both sides of the table.

:32:16. > :32:18.I think the key message is that we can't do it alone,

:32:19. > :32:21.that we've got to have community participation if we want to have

:32:22. > :32:22.safe and secure communities in this country.

:32:23. > :32:29.Thank you very much, John Matthews, thank you.

:32:30. > :32:35.And John is a former Dallas police officer as well. Let's remind you of

:32:36. > :32:40.what we know so far. Five officers have been killed. Six others are

:32:41. > :32:45.wounded. Three suspects are in custody. And there are unconfirmed

:32:46. > :33:06.reports that a fourth suspect has shot himself dead.

:33:07. > :33:15.Gunfire broke out at around 8.45pm local time, when hundreds of people

:33:16. > :33:19.were gathered to protest against the shooting of two black men this week

:33:20. > :33:24.by police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota.

:33:25. > :33:29.Bob Wieland is a former policeman and now a journalist based in Dallas

:33:30. > :33:47.We have federal officers going through a place where a bomb would

:33:48. > :33:53.be hoodoo. But they have not found anything yet, we don't think. If

:33:54. > :33:56.they did, they would either be imploding it on-site or they would

:33:57. > :34:00.try and remove it. But so far we have not heard of any bombs being

:34:01. > :34:03.found. But they are being very cautious because one of the suspects

:34:04. > :34:08.did allude to many bombs being placed. You are a former police

:34:09. > :34:11.officer, now journalist, based in Dallas. What are your thoughts,

:34:12. > :34:16.giving your experience and knowledge of where you are, when you see this

:34:17. > :34:22.sort of incident unfolding, police being targeted by snipers? It's a

:34:23. > :34:28.tragedy. My heart goes out to both sides in this. The police who, in

:34:29. > :34:34.many cases, were doing their jobs to the best of their ability, and

:34:35. > :34:38.somehow lost all of the situation to the point where they had to

:34:39. > :34:43.discharge their weapon, I feel so sorry for them, because that's not

:34:44. > :34:48.what they intended to do at the beginning of that engagement, I am

:34:49. > :34:56.sure. As for the victims and their families, I can only say that the

:34:57. > :35:04.entire nation is mourning for them, because of the perceived injustice

:35:05. > :35:08.of it, in that it does seem to have racial overtones. However, most of

:35:09. > :35:12.the police officers, if you questioned them, they would say,

:35:13. > :35:18.well, they did not see the colour of the person's skin, they were just

:35:19. > :35:21.responding to a call. In Dallas, for example, our police chief is black

:35:22. > :35:25.and we have had several black police chiefs in the past. And many of the

:35:26. > :35:37.places where these shootings take place are not only black police

:35:38. > :35:43.officers, lack chiefs had no large percentage of black legislators and

:35:44. > :35:48.other leaders in the community. But it is an undeniable fact that if you

:35:49. > :35:52.are black you are more likely to be shot dead by a police officer than

:35:53. > :35:58.if you are white. And that is giving rise to the kind of tensions we are

:35:59. > :36:03.seeing now. In your experience, are some police officers racist, is

:36:04. > :36:10.there an issue? There shouldn't be. And I have associated with police

:36:11. > :36:14.officers for many years, not tonight, I haven't questioned any of

:36:15. > :36:18.the officers directly who have been involved in this, because obviously

:36:19. > :36:23.some of them are still on scene, and it's very hard to get down there. I

:36:24. > :36:27.have learned that the fifth officer, one of the officers who was wounded,

:36:28. > :36:37.has died, so the death toll now stands at five. The officers are not

:36:38. > :36:41.setting out to do anything. They are not what you would think of, with

:36:42. > :36:45.the Ku Klux Klan in the deep South, with lynchings or fiery crosses.

:36:46. > :36:50.They are doing a job. Unfortunately they do have recourse to lethal

:36:51. > :36:55.force. And sometimes, where they use non-lethal force, such as a Taser,

:36:56. > :37:01.that can cause a suspect to die. And unfortunately, they all carry

:37:02. > :37:05.weapons, and many of the suspects now, with new, loose and carry laws,

:37:06. > :37:11.not only in taxes but nationwide, it is more likely that your suspect

:37:12. > :37:18.will be carrying a weapon. So police have to take that extra caution of

:37:19. > :37:23.being aware of that. -- in taxes. When you look at the video of the

:37:24. > :37:27.latest incident, Philando Castile, his girlfriend live streaming it, it

:37:28. > :37:31.would seem to be the fact that Philando Castile had revealed to the

:37:32. > :37:35.officer that he had a weapon on his person, there was heightened tension

:37:36. > :37:39.by the officer that it may be used on him. Do you think if it was a

:37:40. > :37:42.white person saying that they had a weapon but at the same time they

:37:43. > :37:47.were getting out their documents, that things would have unfolded in

:37:48. > :37:50.the same way? That's a really interesting question. And it is one

:37:51. > :37:55.that that officer himself would have to answer. In a traffic stop, most

:37:56. > :37:59.of the time, the officers do a little profiling just simply in

:38:00. > :38:05.order to match up facts, depending on the type of car that the license

:38:06. > :38:11.plate, whether it is out-of-state, how many people in the car, how beat

:38:12. > :38:14.up the car is, whether the car reeks of alcohol or marijuana smoke. All

:38:15. > :38:19.of these things are taken into account. Race is not usually one of

:38:20. > :38:24.them and should not be one of the things that they take into account.

:38:25. > :38:27.But if that traffic stop were done properly, the license plate would

:38:28. > :38:33.have been run, it would have flagged the car as being registered to a

:38:34. > :38:38.person with a handgun license. If it were her car and she was driving, it

:38:39. > :38:41.would not come back with a flag. In that case he should have immediately

:38:42. > :38:47.identified himself as a handgun carrier. Instead of just saying, I

:38:48. > :38:51.have a gun, and she is screaming, he has a licence to carry, that he

:38:52. > :38:58.should have been the one, immediately, as soon as the police

:38:59. > :39:01.walk up, to show his hands, and he should say, put your hands on the

:39:02. > :39:05.steering wheel and let the police officer Noel as soon as possible

:39:06. > :39:13.that you are armed and you are legal to carry a gun. The fact that this

:39:14. > :39:16.was all live streamed obviously puts a window on a situation which would

:39:17. > :39:22.not be there without social media. How do you think social media might

:39:23. > :39:31.change the reaction to events, and also the way police officers might

:39:32. > :39:40.handle themselves in situations? Social media has opened up the

:39:41. > :39:46.dealings in many fields, not just police work, but made civilians

:39:47. > :39:51.aware of many of the things going on in hospitals, operating rooms,

:39:52. > :39:57.factories, working conditions, a lot of protesters using hidden cameras

:39:58. > :40:01.and social media to get the message out, whether it is animal rights or

:40:02. > :40:07.working conditions for migrant workers or whatever. The key here is

:40:08. > :40:12.for the police to get ahead of the curve and implementing the use of

:40:13. > :40:18.bodycams so that they can show their side of the story just as quickly as

:40:19. > :40:23.a victim or perceived victim is able to stream a live stream and make

:40:24. > :40:28.people aware of what has gone down. That way the police story is out

:40:29. > :40:31.there. Unfortunately a lot of times the Police Department

:40:32. > :40:37.administration, or their union representatives or attorneys

:40:38. > :40:40.Kulasekara let's keep that video until we can sort out the charges

:40:41. > :40:47.and the rest of it. But by that time the public has already formed an

:40:48. > :40:54.opinion. That was a former journalist and police officer in

:40:55. > :40:58.Dallas. Let's bring you some of the reaction that we have had on social

:40:59. > :41:01.media. This picture of police standing in a line outside the

:41:02. > :41:08.hospital, saluting their fellow officers who died. One dramatic

:41:09. > :41:22.image of the night. Elsewhere, Dallas police have treated... It has

:41:23. > :41:27.been a devastating nice. Night just Matthew Pearce has treated - the

:41:28. > :41:33.week from hell. Someone else... Oh, dear lord, what have I woken up to?

:41:34. > :41:38.Someone else - the words of Martin Luther King - violence only

:41:39. > :41:59.multiplies violence. Someone else has treated - this is now war.

:42:00. > :42:01.Texas Senator Ted Cruz has just tweeted...

:42:02. > :42:15.heroes and bring peace upon the City of Dallas."

:42:16. > :42:22.We will have lots more reaction to that. From ten o'clock we will be

:42:23. > :42:24.keeping you up-to-date throughout the programme. Any more

:42:25. > :42:30.developments, we will bring them to you straightaway. Just a reminder of

:42:31. > :42:37.what we know so far. Five police officers have been killed in Dallas,

:42:38. > :42:41.Texas, after Snipe -- after snipers opened fire at a protest about the

:42:42. > :42:46.killing of two black people by police officers. There are

:42:47. > :42:50.unconfirmed media reports that a suspect in the attacks was involved

:42:51. > :42:56.in a stand-off with police and is now dead. Three other suspects are

:42:57. > :43:04.in custody. You can also follow the live page on the BBC News website.

:43:05. > :43:13.We will keep you up-to-date. A Polish family living in Plymouth

:43:14. > :43:16.say they fear for their safety after being threatened

:43:17. > :43:18.and having their shed set alight. As fire raged in their back garden,

:43:19. > :43:20.they found this note on their doorstep telling them to go

:43:21. > :43:23.back to Poland and warning, Adam and Gabriela Abamowicz,

:43:24. > :43:27.who both work in retail, have lived in the house for six

:43:28. > :43:30.years with their four children and have been

:43:31. > :43:33.subjected to abuse before, but this is the worst

:43:34. > :43:36.incident they've suffered. It comes as police across the UK

:43:37. > :43:40.are reporting a surge in race crimes following Britain's

:43:41. > :43:46.vote to leave the EU. With me now from her parents' home

:43:47. > :43:48.is 22-year-old Ewa Banaszak and her parents, Adam

:43:49. > :43:51.and Gabriela Abalmowicz, who were at home with their four

:43:52. > :44:07.younger children when the fire Thank you very much for joining us.

:44:08. > :44:10.Ewa Banaszak, tell us what happened when the house was targeted?

:44:11. > :44:17.Basically what happened was that around quarter to 12 on Wednesday

:44:18. > :44:20.night, my sisters which were in the bathroom, which has the overlooking

:44:21. > :44:25.window to the garden, noticed there was a fire in the garden. They

:44:26. > :44:28.alerted my parents, who were downstairs in the living room.

:44:29. > :44:32.Straight dad reacted and ran out to the garden, took a hose and started

:44:33. > :44:42.to put the fire down. He was trying very hard, but doing it over the top

:44:43. > :44:45.of the roof did not really help. He opened the doors of the shed and

:44:46. > :44:49.started to put it down inside the shed. He managed to take it down a

:44:50. > :44:53.little bit before it did much more damage. As you can see this image

:44:54. > :45:00.here. It did have consequences on the window, and on some pipes which

:45:01. > :45:05.are on the house. My younger sister, just 14, when she noticed that the

:45:06. > :45:10.fire brigade were coming over, she ran out to the streets to see if

:45:11. > :45:13.there was anyone coming down. When she was coming back, she found that

:45:14. > :45:20.letter on the doorstep. She opened it and she didn't know what to say.

:45:21. > :45:23.She was petrified. She was very scared. When she showed it to my

:45:24. > :45:27.mum, everyone was shocked of how something like this could happen to

:45:28. > :45:33.the poll that has been living here for such a long time.

:45:34. > :45:39.You have all been shocked by the letter and the contents of it saying

:45:40. > :45:42.next time it will be your family, presumably meaning next time the

:45:43. > :45:48.house will be burned down, not just the shed. Seeing the shed now having

:45:49. > :45:53.been burned out by fire clearly it was a serious fire there. How

:45:54. > :46:03.vulnerable are you all feeling right now? The feelings that we go through

:46:04. > :46:09.are a mix of emotions. Sadness, we are scared. We do know this was a

:46:10. > :46:14.serious threat. There is something telling us that it might happen

:46:15. > :46:22.again. We don't know. So there is a mix of emotions especially with

:46:23. > :46:27.having children in the house, with them crying, it's not obviously

:46:28. > :46:31.something that we have on everyday basis which is why it's hard to

:46:32. > :46:35.understand why this happened. Do they feel safe in the house right

:46:36. > :46:40.now? Because there is so many services helping us out, the police

:46:41. > :46:43.are involved, the fire investigators are involved, the schools are very

:46:44. > :46:48.good with providing us with all the help we need. We feel a bit more

:46:49. > :46:55.secure in the house. We have got alarms. We are reassured by the

:46:56. > :46:59.police that this will continue for the future, for the future that we

:47:00. > :47:03.can be reassured that everything will be fine. Obviously, we are

:47:04. > :47:09.still shocked and in a way scared that this might happen again but I

:47:10. > :47:15.know everyone is doing what they can to put our minds at ease that this

:47:16. > :47:25.is being dealt with and that we are safe where we are at the moment. Why

:47:26. > :47:28.do you think this may have happened? Well, taking it from the note, it

:47:29. > :47:32.obviously happened because we are from a different country. We are

:47:33. > :47:39.originally from Poland and we are very proud to be. We have been

:47:40. > :47:42.living here for such a long time. We consider this our home. People

:47:43. > :47:47.around us, which are showing so much support now, are proving that to us.

:47:48. > :47:51.We do think it happened because we are Polish, this is what the note

:47:52. > :47:55.was indicating. Whether there was any other reason I won't be able to

:47:56. > :47:58.tell you, there might have been so many other reasons this happened,

:47:59. > :48:02.but there is nothing that will explain this to us completely,

:48:03. > :48:06.obviously. Your family has experienced issues

:48:07. > :48:12.before. Tell us what you have experienced before. It was mostly

:48:13. > :48:18.verbal. Verbal, it was talking to the children, talking to us to go

:48:19. > :48:22.back to our country, to get lost, that we don't belong here. We

:48:23. > :48:28.shouldn't be here. We shouldn't be working or living here. Hence, it is

:48:29. > :48:33.a surprise that they took action to their words but it's nothing new

:48:34. > :48:37.that we get abused verbally and that has been going on for a couple of

:48:38. > :48:40.years. Obviously we have reported that to the police and they have

:48:41. > :48:45.been acting very well on all the occasions that we have reported it.

:48:46. > :48:49.Obviously, if sometimes the report is a small matter we won't be

:48:50. > :48:53.phoning the police on every occasion as there was a couple of things that

:48:54. > :48:59.we resolved between ourselves and the community. Sometimes it was just

:49:00. > :49:03.misunderstanding and apart from that, yeah, that's basically it. The

:49:04. > :49:07.number of hate crimes being investigated by police has gone up

:49:08. > :49:11.significantly since the referendum result and in some incidents the

:49:12. > :49:16.referendum has been specifically mentioned. Do you feel things have

:49:17. > :49:23.changed since the referendum result? Yes, we do. Unfortunately, by

:49:24. > :49:26.looking at what we are looking at at the moment we feel obviously it's

:49:27. > :49:33.our own opinion, but we do feel things have got worse since the

:49:34. > :49:37.referendum. We get a lot more verbal abuse from other people and I know I

:49:38. > :49:41.have many friends, many Polish friends that live here for a long

:49:42. > :49:47.time and they've been working here incredibly hard to stay here and to

:49:48. > :49:51.be the best they can be and to live where they are and unfortunately

:49:52. > :49:57.this has been going on, not only in Plymouth, but in the UK. We have

:49:58. > :50:04.Polish communities in almost every city in this country and we do know

:50:05. > :50:07.this has been going on due to the fact that the referendum and the

:50:08. > :50:14.vote to leave. Thank you very much for talking to us.

:50:15. > :50:19.Their home was targeted and the shed set on fire and a hate letter left

:50:20. > :50:22.behind. . Coming up: Terror on the streets of Dallas as five police

:50:23. > :50:27.officers are shot dead by snipers. It's a rapidly unfolding situation.

:50:28. > :50:32.We will bring you the latest live from the city. We are expecting to

:50:33. > :50:36.hear from President Obama shortly. If he starts to speak about those

:50:37. > :50:40.events in Dallas overnight we will bring you that as soon as it

:50:41. > :50:44.happens. We will keep you updated with all the latest developments. We

:50:45. > :50:48.are still unable to confirm the latest reports that it is over with

:50:49. > :50:51.the last suspect having shot himself dead. But we are checking those

:50:52. > :50:56.reports and will keep you updated. More than 2,300 people have signed

:50:57. > :50:59.a petition calling for homeopathy An open letter being sent today

:51:00. > :51:02.to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons asks

:51:03. > :51:08.for the treatment, which is based on the use of highly diluted

:51:09. > :51:10.substances claimed to help the body to heal itself, to be blacklisted

:51:11. > :51:14.from what vets are allowed to offer In a moment we'll speak to Geoff

:51:15. > :51:19.Johnson a homeopathy vet and member of the British Association

:51:20. > :51:23.of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons and Charlotte Boize whose horse

:51:24. > :51:25.Geoff treated homeopathically, but first let's chat

:51:26. > :51:39.to Danny Chambers, who is the vet Thank you for coming in. Why do you

:51:40. > :51:43.want it banned? All the good quality scientific evidence, this is many

:51:44. > :51:47.clinical trials over many years and many different conditions, have

:51:48. > :51:53.failed to show that it has any effect whatsoever. So, the science

:51:54. > :52:02.tells us that homeopathy does nothing. When it comes to trying to

:52:03. > :52:08.treat animals that maybe have a condition, for instance has a

:52:09. > :52:11.disease, they can be treated very successfully with a proven product

:52:12. > :52:16.that's been licensed to treat that specific condition and you would

:52:17. > :52:27.expect these animals to live many years of a healthy life and instead

:52:28. > :52:30.of giving the proven product you then give homeopathy that may lead

:52:31. > :52:32.to animals being put to sleep unnecessary, it's bad to charge

:52:33. > :52:39.clients for something that doesn't work. The fact that it is offered

:52:40. > :52:43.means there is a demand for it. It is being used. In in itself it

:52:44. > :52:46.doesn't cause any harm and many people believe it works, and there

:52:47. > :52:51.are people obviously talking to one in a moment who say it has worked

:52:52. > :52:57.effectively, why should it be banned? I think like I just said, it

:52:58. > :53:01.is harmful if you are using it in place of proven treatments. You are

:53:02. > :53:07.effectively withholding treatment if you are giving homeopathy. What it's

:53:08. > :53:11.used as a last resort which is often when reading case studies that I

:53:12. > :53:14.have read, it's often described as being a last resort where other

:53:15. > :53:18.things haven't worked, in that case is it OK? It depends on why you are

:53:19. > :53:23.giving it. If you are giving it as a last resort because the pet has

:53:24. > :53:26.unfortunately got some terminal illness, that animal may well be

:53:27. > :53:37.suffering and if it can't be treated and you are trying to get advice

:53:38. > :53:43.from a vet, sometimes the kindness thing to do maybe euthanasia or

:53:44. > :53:46.painkillers. You are giving false hope and charging for something that

:53:47. > :53:51.will not affect the outcome at the end. When people go to a vet, it's

:53:52. > :53:56.the same as when you go to a doctor, they're getting advice from someone

:53:57. > :53:59.who has an accredited degree from an accredited university, they're

:54:00. > :54:05.wanting advice that's consistent with 21st century medical knowledge.

:54:06. > :54:09.It seems to me unfair that if you turn up to a vet you might be given

:54:10. > :54:15.the vet's personal beliefs and therapies that have no basis in

:54:16. > :54:20.science. As you say, they're well-trained, they've got the

:54:21. > :54:23.qualifications, intelligent people. So, they've thought it through. What

:54:24. > :54:28.do you think about the vets who are offering these services that you

:54:29. > :54:34.disagree with? Well, it's one reason I have targeted this petition to the

:54:35. > :54:42.Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, because I fully accept all

:54:43. > :54:46.the h vets really care about animal welfare and doing what they believe

:54:47. > :54:51.is best. If they won't accept the science it must fall to a third

:54:52. > :54:57.party to set a minimum standard for veterinary practice which is what

:54:58. > :55:01.the Royal College aims to do. But I certainly understand their

:55:02. > :55:08.intentions are very honourable. Stay with us. I want to talk to

:55:09. > :55:12.Charlotte. You treated your horse with homeopathy medicine. Why did

:55:13. > :55:18.you do that? I had been to the vet and I had tried traditional routes

:55:19. > :55:21.and wasn't getting anywhere. I wouldn't say my first port of call

:55:22. > :55:24.would be homeopathy but I desperately needed to have

:55:25. > :55:30.additional help and input. I had tried everything else and that's

:55:31. > :55:39.what I did. What were the problems and tell us what happened once the

:55:40. > :55:51.homeopathy was used? So It was a home-bred foal, I have had her from

:55:52. > :55:55.birth, I thought it would be exciting - once she started her work

:55:56. > :56:03.life, which is gentle to start with, she got a really bad cough which I

:56:04. > :56:07.allowed her time to get over. It was described as exercise intolerant.

:56:08. > :56:14.She felt as soon as I started riding her she had no energy and absolutely

:56:15. > :56:18.listless and was unhappy in herself. I did the traditional things, spoke

:56:19. > :56:24.to specialists and spoke to the vet. The vet checked her for ulcers. He

:56:25. > :56:29.did a test on her airways to check she was fine. They checked her heart

:56:30. > :56:32.rate. Everything about the horse was showing she's absolutely fine and

:56:33. > :56:36.everything about the horse was telling me she wasn't. To the point

:56:37. > :56:42.we agreed she wasn't but we didn't know what the problem was. Geoff was

:56:43. > :56:47.recommended by someone I know who is a very intelligent professional who

:56:48. > :56:51.works with horses and people as a physio. Geoff obviously is a

:56:52. > :56:55.qualified vet. So sorry to interrupt you. We are running out of time. We

:56:56. > :57:01.are going to speak to Geoff now. In a nutshell, you believed that the

:57:02. > :57:07.homeopathy worked for your horse? By the third pill my horse was looking

:57:08. > :57:11.pretty well. Let's talk to Geoff. People feel strongly that homeopathy

:57:12. > :57:16.absolutely does not work. What do you say to Danny who says it should

:57:17. > :57:21.be banned? The first thing I have to say to Danny, he was saying it

:57:22. > :57:26.wasn't scientific. Science is where you observe phenomenon occurring and

:57:27. > :57:30.I have observed over 21 years that many animals respond very well. A

:57:31. > :57:36.lot of the cases I have is animals that come to me as a last resort

:57:37. > :57:40.with serious chronic diseases that the conventional vets haven't been

:57:41. > :57:45.able to help, including specialist centres and a significant proportion

:57:46. > :57:49.of those I can help or save them. Therefore, to say that it doesn't

:57:50. > :57:53.work goes against all the experience I have every single day of treating

:57:54. > :57:59.animals with serious problems day in, day out. There are also good

:58:00. > :58:05.veterinary trials demonstrating that homeopathy works. One was in piglets

:58:06. > :58:10.which was statistically significant stopping them having diarrhoea.

:58:11. > :58:16.There's been two papers published demonstrating that homeopathy can be

:58:17. > :58:21.effective. Danny, respond to that. Veterinary

:58:22. > :58:26.trials saying it can be effective? Anecdotal evidence, no matter how

:58:27. > :58:31.many years you have been using it for doesn't equate to studies that

:58:32. > :58:34.take into account thousands of animals where you are looking at

:58:35. > :58:39.objective outcomes. You may feel that the dog is feeling better,

:58:40. > :58:45.maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe it is because of the homeopathy,

:58:46. > :58:49.maybe not. That's different to - for instance, the British Association of

:58:50. > :58:55.Homeopathy Surgeons have case reports of dog cured by cancer, do

:58:56. > :58:59.you treat cancer and can you cure cancer of with homeopathy in your

:59:00. > :59:03.practice? I do, that case on the website is one of mine. Three cases

:59:04. > :59:07.of mine up there and I have several cases going on at the moment. That

:59:08. > :59:12.is one reason people come to me. If you can get the recommend tee right

:59:13. > :59:15.and understand the situation and understand the animal well enough,

:59:16. > :59:20.homeopathy gives it the ability to be able to heal itself. I have

:59:21. > :59:23.several cases of cancer, well more than several, many cases. So sorry,

:59:24. > :59:29.we have to stop this discussion right now. I know it's obviously a

:59:30. > :59:33.subject that excites strong feelings on both sides. You have the petition

:59:34. > :59:42.going, Danny. Keep us updated. Thank you all very much.

:59:43. > :59:46.The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons say they emphasise the

:59:47. > :59:49.importance of evidence-based veterinary evidence and urge a

:59:50. > :59:52.cautious approach when it comes to homeopathy for animals. They say

:59:53. > :59:55.these treatments should be considered as complementary rather

:59:56. > :00:00.than an alternative to conventional treatments but stop short of

:00:01. > :00:03.supporting a ban on homeopathy for animals saying they recognise there

:00:04. > :00:06.is a demand and there is no reason to fear that the treatments cause

:00:07. > :00:08.harm to animals. We will bring you up to date with the latest from

:00:09. > :00:13.Dallas. First, let's catch up with the weather.

:00:14. > :00:18.A drab start to Friday. But skies are now brightening and we will see

:00:19. > :00:27.sunny spells in most places for today. Already some here in East

:00:28. > :00:32.Lothian. Most places will brighten up and see blue sky through today.

:00:33. > :00:36.It will feel warm, as well. Temperatures could get up to 24.

:00:37. > :00:38.Still some damp weather to get rid of across parts of East Anglia

:00:39. > :00:43.heading to the North Sea and parts of southern England will take a

:00:44. > :00:47.while before we brighten up. It's not completely dry across Scotland

:00:48. > :00:51.and northern England. Most places will avoid the showers and feel warm

:00:52. > :00:55.as the winds ease down and temperatures maybe 24. The weekend

:00:56. > :00:59.is rather complicated. More details on that online.

:01:00. > :01:04.That's all for now. Hello it's Friday, it's 10 o'clock,

:01:05. > :01:10.I'm Joanna Gosling - welcome to the programme if you've

:01:11. > :01:15.just joined us. Five police officers

:01:16. > :01:19.are killed when snipers open fire at a protest in Dallas

:01:20. > :01:21.against the shooting Several more police

:01:22. > :01:24.are critically wounded. I was walking and the sniper

:01:25. > :01:26.just started shooting. Like all of the cops

:01:27. > :01:28.were getting shot man. There had to have been like five

:01:29. > :01:33.or six cops they was In the deadliest day for law

:01:34. > :01:44.enforcement officers since 9/11. You can see one of the gunmen here -

:01:45. > :01:47.he later shot a policeman, but those images are

:01:48. > :01:49.too graphic to show. Three suspects are now in custody,

:01:50. > :01:54.while a fourth has shot himself. The police chief has paid tribute

:01:55. > :02:03.to his officers. Seeing the courage, the

:02:04. > :02:08.professionalism and just the grit to stay on scene in an area, looking

:02:09. > :02:14.for suspects, knowing that we are vulnerable. We will speak to one of

:02:15. > :02:19.the eyewitnesses shortly who saw the policeman being shot. These two

:02:20. > :02:22.women, one of them will be our next Prime Minister. We will speak to

:02:23. > :02:26.some of the Conservative Party members who will choose whether it

:02:27. > :02:32.is Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom who gets to No 10.

:02:33. > :02:44.We can bring you up to date with all of the latest developments in

:02:45. > :02:47.Dallas, where five police officers have died after snipers opened fire

:02:48. > :02:49.at a protest about the fatal shootings of two black men by police

:02:50. > :03:07.this week. Terror on the streets of Dallas.

:03:08. > :03:12.Hundreds of people flee for cover after hearing gunshots. They don't

:03:13. > :03:25.know where the danger is, so they hide where they can. The police move

:03:26. > :03:31.into what sounds like a war zone. They think there are at least two

:03:32. > :03:43.and mental with high-calibre rifles. Witnesses say the police themselves

:03:44. > :03:52.were the targets. I just saw cops bending over, man. It looks like

:03:53. > :03:56.five or six cops, shot down. This person was filmed by a bystander. He

:03:57. > :04:02.appears focused as he fires back towards police. It is not clear who

:04:03. > :04:06.he is or what happened to him next. Two suspects were quickly arrested

:04:07. > :04:09.after a police chase on this overpass. One of them was seen

:04:10. > :04:15.throwing a bag back into the car before speeding off. But it was not

:04:16. > :04:20.over. The shooting continued, as police tried to keep people back.

:04:21. > :04:24.For several hours there was a stand-off at this car park, where

:04:25. > :04:32.one of the gunman was keeping police at bay. The city was shaken by the

:04:33. > :04:38.attacks. The suspect told our negotiators that the end is coming,

:04:39. > :04:45.and he's going to hurt and kill more of us, meaning law-enforcement, and

:04:46. > :04:48.that there are bombs all over the place in this garage and downtown.

:04:49. > :04:54.That suspect was later reported to have been killed. At least one

:04:55. > :04:57.suspicious package was found, but no bombs appear to have gone off. It

:04:58. > :05:04.has been a terrible night of carnage for the Dallas police. I ask

:05:05. > :05:08.everybody to focus on one thing right now - and that is the Dallas

:05:09. > :05:11.police officers, their families, those that are deceased, those that

:05:12. > :05:20.are in the hospital fighting for their lives. Let's all come together

:05:21. > :05:24.and support our police officers. Five officers killed, another six

:05:25. > :05:32.injured. Once again, America is left asking whether this problem of gun

:05:33. > :05:37.violence will ever be solved. We can now speak to Brendan has to, a

:05:38. > :05:41.21-year-old photographer. He witnessed a policeman being shot and

:05:42. > :05:51.he joins us live from Dallas. Thank you very much for joining us. Tell

:05:52. > :05:56.us what you saw. On, basically, I heard a man. And after that I looked

:05:57. > :06:04.to my left and I saw the police officer go down. I was pretty much

:06:05. > :06:08.just shocked, and then I just ran. And this reporter guy he grabbed me

:06:09. > :06:13.and we went underneath the parking garage. We were kind of on the side

:06:14. > :06:20.of it. That side of the garage, we were not entirely underneath the

:06:21. > :06:26.parking garage. All the police cars started showing up, and all you hear

:06:27. > :06:32.is a bunch of shots ringing from right above me. The police just tell

:06:33. > :06:37.us to get down and stay close to the wall, get down. The shots just

:06:38. > :06:45.started ringing right above my head and everything. The cop just... He

:06:46. > :06:51.came over and told all of us to get behind. And when we did... He told

:06:52. > :07:00.us to just go, hurry up and run. And we ran. And after that, a bunch more

:07:01. > :07:05.gunshots rang off. We were there for at least two or three minutes before

:07:06. > :07:10.we could even run. During those two or three minutes, you heard people,

:07:11. > :07:17.you heard the officer screaming, that's number two! Like, officer

:07:18. > :07:25.number two is down! You could literally hear him screaming.

:07:26. > :07:30.Brendan, it must have been petrifying. You were there when all

:07:31. > :07:35.of this started to unfold. You say that you couldn't even run for two

:07:36. > :07:43.or three minutes - what was going through your mind? I really couldn't

:07:44. > :08:04.believe it at the time. I come to downtown Dallas every

:08:05. > :08:09.other day. I take pictures in downtown Dallas almost every other

:08:10. > :08:15.day. I have been in a few protests down here. Nothing like this has

:08:16. > :08:24.ever happened. Yet it would even be imaginable. Was it clear to you from

:08:25. > :08:32.early on that it was the police officers who were being picked out

:08:33. > :08:44.by snipers? ? No. Just heard gunshots. There was a lot of people

:08:45. > :08:52.out there. You couldn't tell, like, it was... You couldn't tell who was

:08:53. > :08:55.getting shot. How did people protect themselves? Was it clear where the

:08:56. > :09:02.shots were even coming from? That's the thing. If you were on that side,

:09:03. > :09:06.you kind of like saw where the shots were coming from. If you didn't, you

:09:07. > :09:13.didn't really know. With everything going around, everybody running

:09:14. > :09:17.every which way, a lot of people couldn't tell. A lot of people were

:09:18. > :09:22.just running every which way, getting down, in fear for their

:09:23. > :09:28.lives, basically. Everyone just ducking, and the police just telling

:09:29. > :09:31.everybody, just, like, basically taking charge and telling everybody,

:09:32. > :09:36.yet to the other side of the building. It happened right on the

:09:37. > :09:48.street, that's where the biggest police station in Dallas is. You

:09:49. > :09:53.described how you heard the police around you, the officers counting,

:09:54. > :09:56.effectively, as they went down. How close were you to the officers who

:09:57. > :10:04.were actually shot? Did you actually see that happening? I saw one. The

:10:05. > :10:12.second one I just heard, but I was pretty close. I was dug down. So I

:10:13. > :10:19.really could not see at that point. I just saw officers dug down. I just

:10:20. > :10:32.heard a lot of shots full stop a whole lot of shots. Like right above

:10:33. > :10:42.me. When he said, officer number two is down, I'm sorry, I am kind of...

:10:43. > :10:48.But after he said that, that's when the officer told us to get behind

:10:49. > :10:56.him. And that's when he told us to just run. It is completely

:10:57. > :11:00.understandable obviously that you are in quite a state of trauma right

:11:01. > :11:05.now, because you have experienced these events happening right before

:11:06. > :11:11.your eyes. How did you manage to get away in the end, what happened?

:11:12. > :11:20.Basically, when it kind of just settled down. I guessed whatever, or

:11:21. > :11:26.whoever was in that parking garage, kind of, stopped firing for a while.

:11:27. > :11:36.I do not know for sure. But they just told us to move out. At one

:11:37. > :11:43.point they told us to move like further down, but then it was

:11:44. > :11:46.reported that... As soon as everyone started walking, it was reported

:11:47. > :11:50.that shots were coming from there as well. So everybody just had to stay

:11:51. > :11:56.in the middle between there and the parking garage. So I just kind of

:11:57. > :12:04.weighted a couple of hours. And I just walked all the way out of the

:12:05. > :12:10.city, literally, all the way around the city. Just to walk back into

:12:11. > :12:18.downtown on the other side to get my car. And obviously, with any

:12:19. > :12:22.situation as it is happening, nobody knows where it is going to go, how

:12:23. > :12:25.many people were involved in it. There was also a threat that there

:12:26. > :12:33.were bombs around the city. Did you feel safe anywhere at that stage? I

:12:34. > :12:39.mean, the fact that I was so close to it in the first place, and the

:12:40. > :12:46.fact that I got that close to it, like, not really. Because we had to

:12:47. > :12:57.kind of stay in between. Everybody watching the news, just saying, the

:12:58. > :13:05.gunman is still at large. Nobody could really feel safe. It was

:13:06. > :13:13.just... I really didn't, even when I was walking away, like a couple of

:13:14. > :13:21.hours later. All the way around the city to my car. At that point, you

:13:22. > :13:24.just don't know what could happen. This all happened as people were out

:13:25. > :13:30.protesting about the shooting dead of a black man by police officers -

:13:31. > :13:35.had you gone along to join that protest? What was your perspective

:13:36. > :13:42.on all of those events? No, actually, to be honest, I was out

:13:43. > :13:50.there, we were already working on a short film. And it was related to

:13:51. > :13:56.the shootings. And we just wanted to catch... We weren't actually going

:13:57. > :14:01.to protest. We were in the protest to kind of get video footage, as

:14:02. > :14:06.will support. But we were not just going to protest the entire time. We

:14:07. > :14:12.just wanted to document it, basically. And we went out there to

:14:13. > :14:17.do that. So from your perspective, as a documentary maker, on events,

:14:18. > :14:23.as they happen, and on race relations more broadly, what is your

:14:24. > :14:41.take on everything, on the mood in the United States right now? After

:14:42. > :14:45.tonight, it's scary. Because it's just like briefed people got killed

:14:46. > :14:51.by cops. You've got a lot of these people saying, because of the people

:14:52. > :14:54.that dies by the hands of a cop, you've got these people saying, they

:14:55. > :15:01.don't care about the cops they lost tonight. You got people saying they

:15:02. > :15:05.deserve it and stuff like that. So, honestly, it's scary just to be

:15:06. > :15:09.around all that. You heard people saying that to you, people saying

:15:10. > :15:27.they don't care about the cops, they deserve it? Yes. People saying they

:15:28. > :15:34.don't give, that about the police. Saying, that does not have anything

:15:35. > :15:38.to do with me, we can go home. Just a lot of people think... That's not

:15:39. > :15:48.good, that's scary. What are your feelings about where

:15:49. > :15:58.this goes? Are you worried? I suppose. I'm only 21. Just kidding

:15:59. > :16:06.along for a minute, but this could go on for a while -- kicking. You

:16:07. > :16:16.can see that innocent people are getting her already. -- hurt. This

:16:17. > :16:23.happens when people get fed up and start doing what they want. Like

:16:24. > :16:34.tonight, resulting in more shootings. It is scary. I'm worried.

:16:35. > :16:37.We are expecting to hear from President Obama very shortly with

:16:38. > :16:43.his first reaction to the shootings. What would you like to hear from

:16:44. > :16:55.him? What can people say to try and reduce the tensions? He could...

:16:56. > :17:07.At this point, I don't know. I'm sorry. I really don't know what to

:17:08. > :17:13.say at this point. I mean, everyone would like to hear that the

:17:14. > :17:22.shootings would stop. It has happened before. It has happened in

:17:23. > :17:28.numerous amount of times, these are not the first times. It has got to

:17:29. > :17:32.stop. If it keeps happening, tensions are obviously going to keep

:17:33. > :17:40.rising, stuff like this is going to happen over and over again. Nothing

:17:41. > :17:46.is really safe any more. Brendan, thanks for joining us. I know it has

:17:47. > :17:53.not been easy, you have witnessed horrific events in Dallas overnight.

:17:54. > :18:02.We appreciate you talking to us. We are expecting to hear from President

:18:03. > :18:09.Obama. He is in Warsaw at a Nato conference and we are expecting him

:18:10. > :18:13.to talk to the media with his first comments on the shootings. He was

:18:14. > :18:23.speaking prior to those events, talking about the killings of two

:18:24. > :18:27.black men by police officers which were the events which triggered the

:18:28. > :18:34.protest in Dallas and elsewhere in the United States. It was at one of

:18:35. > :18:38.those protests against those shootings that these sniper attacks

:18:39. > :18:45.happened. We will bring you that as soon as he speaks.

:18:46. > :18:49.As we know 11 officers have been shot - 5 have been killed.

:18:50. > :18:51.One of the police officers killed has been identified as 43-year-old

:18:52. > :19:01.Brent Thompson. He joined the Dallas Area Rapid

:19:02. > :19:11.Transit force in 2009. His department has issued

:19:12. > :19:14.a statement, it reads, "As you can "This is something that touches

:19:15. > :19:17.every part of our organization. "We have received countless

:19:18. > :19:20.expressions of support and sympathy "from around the world

:19:21. > :19:21.through the evening. "We are grateful for every message.

:19:22. > :19:29.Thank you." And now we can hear from the

:19:30. > :19:34.American president. With your understanding I want to begin with a

:19:35. > :19:41.few words about the situation back in the United States. Specifically

:19:42. > :19:47.the situation in Dallas, Texas. My team has been keeping me updated

:19:48. > :19:53.through the morning. Regarding the evening in Dallas. I spoke with

:19:54. > :19:57.Mayor Rawlings of Dallas to convey the deepest condolences of the

:19:58. > :20:00.American people. I told him that the federal government will provide

:20:01. > :20:06.whatever assistance Dallas might need as it deals with this

:20:07. > :20:12.tremendous tragedy. We still don't know the facts. What we do know,

:20:13. > :20:18.there has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on

:20:19. > :20:25.law-enforcement. Police in Dallas were on duty, doing their jobs,

:20:26. > :20:32.keeping people safe during peaceful protests. These law-enforcement

:20:33. > :20:40.officers were targeted. Nearly a dozen officers were shot. Five were

:20:41. > :20:45.killed. Other officers and at least one civilian were wounded. Some are

:20:46. > :20:51.in serious condition and we are praying for their recovery. As I

:20:52. > :20:56.told Mayor Rawlings, I believe I speak for every single American when

:20:57. > :21:00.I say we are horrified over these events and that we stand united with

:21:01. > :21:07.the people and the police department in Dallas. According to police there

:21:08. > :21:15.are multiple suspects and we will learn more undoubtably about their

:21:16. > :21:17.twisted motivations, but let's be clear, there is no possible

:21:18. > :21:24.justification for these kind of attacks. Or any kind of violence

:21:25. > :21:27.against law enforcement. The FBI is in touch with the Dallas police, and

:21:28. > :21:34.anyone involved in these senseless murders will be held fully

:21:35. > :21:39.accountable, justice will be done. I will have more to say about this as

:21:40. > :21:48.the facts become clear. For now, let me just say, even as yesterday, I

:21:49. > :21:52.spoke about our need to be concerned as all Americans about racial

:21:53. > :21:56.disparity in our criminal justice system, but I also said yesterday

:21:57. > :22:02.that our police have an extraordinarily difficult job and

:22:03. > :22:10.the vast majority of them do their job in outstanding fashion. I also

:22:11. > :22:15.indicated the degree to which we need to be supportive of those

:22:16. > :22:23.officers who do their job each and every day. Protecting us and our

:22:24. > :22:30.communities. Today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices that they

:22:31. > :22:35.make for us. We also know that when people are armed with powerful

:22:36. > :22:40.weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and

:22:41. > :22:46.more tragic. And in the days ahead we will have to consider those

:22:47. > :22:51.realities, as well. In the meantime, today, our focus is on the victims

:22:52. > :22:58.and their families. They are heartbroken. The entire city of

:22:59. > :23:02.Dallas is grieving. Police across America, which is a tight-knit

:23:03. > :23:08.family, feels this loss to their core. We are grieving with them. I

:23:09. > :23:10.ask all Americans to say a prayer for these officers and their

:23:11. > :23:18.families, to keep them in their thoughts. As a nation, we must

:23:19. > :23:23.remember to express our profound gratitude to our men and women in

:23:24. > :23:29.blue, not just today, but every day. With that, I want to thank Donald

:23:30. > :23:34.Tusk engine claw junker for the work here in Warsaw, I've worked with

:23:35. > :23:42.Donald in his previous capacity here in Poland -- Donald Tusk and

:23:43. > :23:47.Jean-Claude Juncker. STUDIO: We will leave the American president. That

:23:48. > :23:50.was his first reaction to the shootings in Dallas which have seen

:23:51. > :23:56.five police officers killed on the streets of Dallas while they were

:23:57. > :24:01.out policing a protest which was in response to the killings of two

:24:02. > :24:04.black men are by police officers. The police were covering that

:24:05. > :24:12.protest when snipers opened fire on them. Five police officers killed

:24:13. > :24:19.and another six injured. These pictures showing one of the gunmen.

:24:20. > :24:24.President Obama talking about senseless murders, he said "We are

:24:25. > :24:30.horrified and we stand united over this". He said he would have more to

:24:31. > :24:34.say when the facts become clear, but his message was one of unity and he

:24:35. > :24:40.said the police have an extraordinarily difficult job and

:24:41. > :24:45.the vast majority do their job in an outstanding fashion, he said. He

:24:46. > :24:54.said today is a wrenching reminder the sacrifices police make for us.

:24:55. > :24:59.Our correspondent joins us live from Los Angeles. Peter, the president

:25:00. > :25:08.talking about his horror at what has happened. He said he would have more

:25:09. > :25:15.to say when the facts become clear. Yes, it is clear from what the

:25:16. > :25:21.police have been saying in Dallas, it could be some time before all of

:25:22. > :25:25.those facts are clear. It has been a very confusing situation as we have

:25:26. > :25:31.been watching this terrible tragedy unfold over the last few hours. The

:25:32. > :25:36.words of the president will resonate with so many Americans, talking

:25:37. > :25:40.about this as a tremendous tragedy, vicious, captivated and despicable

:25:41. > :25:45.attack on law-enforcement. Referring to the twisted motivation of those

:25:46. > :25:51.people involved. Being here you get a sense of people's frustrations at

:25:52. > :25:56.this time, with what has happened in other cities, the shooting of black

:25:57. > :26:00.men by the police and then this protest in Dallas and other cities

:26:01. > :26:06.around America. People exercising their right to express their

:26:07. > :26:13.feelings and protest about whatever it is, frustration or anger at the

:26:14. > :26:17.current situation in America. There are more protests planned in the

:26:18. > :26:20.coming days and clearly in the light of what has happened in Dallas,

:26:21. > :26:25.police forces will be looking very carefully at security matters across

:26:26. > :26:29.the country as people inevitably take to the streets again. The

:26:30. > :26:38.president also spoke about the fact that when the weapons that we use...

:26:39. > :26:42.-- that were used in this attack, he said we will have to consider the

:26:43. > :26:46.realities of that, as well. Every time there's a mass shooting the

:26:47. > :26:49.president is clear on where he stands regarding gun control in the

:26:50. > :26:55.United States but nothing has changed his presidency. That is

:26:56. > :27:01.correct. He has been clear where he stands and his sense of frustration

:27:02. > :27:04.that nothing seems to change. There might be small changes in the law

:27:05. > :27:10.but nothing substantial seems to change in terms of legislation with

:27:11. > :27:15.politicians in Washington at loggerheads as to what the future

:27:16. > :27:19.course of action should be in terms of gun control in America. He has

:27:20. > :27:23.made it very clear that he finds that situation frustrating and he

:27:24. > :27:30.has said a number of times that he considers it to be one of his

:27:31. > :27:36.failings, that he hasn't managed to achieve more during his terms in

:27:37. > :27:42.office. That clearly is a debate which will continue. We are in the

:27:43. > :27:45.middle of a very acrimonious presidential candidate debate with

:27:46. > :27:51.Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump addressing these issues. No doubt we

:27:52. > :27:55.will hear more as they debate over the coming months. It is a debate

:27:56. > :28:03.which won't go away. The question is, will anything substantially

:28:04. > :28:07.change? What is the latest on the ground in Dallas, is everything

:28:08. > :28:11.over? We don't know categorically that everything is over, but we

:28:12. > :28:16.understand from the media reports that the final person, the person

:28:17. > :28:21.that was holed up in a stand-off in a Garrard building with the police,

:28:22. > :28:28.that person has killed himself -- in a garage building. That has been

:28:29. > :28:32.reported in local media, and if that is the case it would seem to bring

:28:33. > :28:37.the situation to a close. The police said this was still a crime scene

:28:38. > :28:42.and they weren't absolutely certain that there aren't other suspects to

:28:43. > :28:47.be caught in the Dallas area, and the police have not elaborated on

:28:48. > :28:52.that. Until the police say they are certain that everyone involved in

:28:53. > :28:57.this is either dead or in custody, the situation can't be considered to

:28:58. > :29:01.be over. People that work in Dallas and the downtown area, they have

:29:02. > :29:06.been told to stay away for the coming hours and not to turn up for

:29:07. > :29:09.work in the morning. It will be some time before there is any semblance

:29:10. > :29:17.of normality in downtown Dallas. Thank you, Peter. Many reports of

:29:18. > :29:25.the incidents on social media. Sydney says, guns, racism and

:29:26. > :29:29.ignorance, he said this was likely to happen after the police had

:29:30. > :29:34.essentially been filmed executing people on the streets. Another

:29:35. > :29:38.person says the police need training reform. Katz says, when will

:29:39. > :29:41.Americans learn, because situation was written when they were still

:29:42. > :29:47.fighting the Indians across the prairies. And that the open sales of

:29:48. > :29:50.guns lead to unnecessary deaths and that slavery no longer exists,

:29:51. > :29:55.contrary to the beliefs of many Americans in southern states.

:29:56. > :30:00.Destiny has tweeted, my heart goes out to those in Dallas and affected

:30:01. > :30:03.by the awful shooting, e-mail from day, any police force must be

:30:04. > :30:07.accountable for any killing of people and they can't get away with

:30:08. > :30:19.murder. Textron Peter, it is time the US and people owning guns

:30:20. > :30:22.stashed text from. Tweet from Derek, the American police are like the

:30:23. > :30:33.South African police back in the days of the apartheid system. And

:30:34. > :30:47.one final message, citing the ridiculous gun laws.

:30:48. > :31:04.We can now speak to Sima Yasmin. I'm not sure if we still have Sima

:31:05. > :31:07.Yasmin on the line. It seems that unfortunately we cannot speak to

:31:08. > :31:12.Sima Yasmin right now. We will go back to her if we can re-establish

:31:13. > :31:13.communication. She is outside one of the hospitals where the injured

:31:14. > :31:29.police officers are being treated. You may have seen a picture from

:31:30. > :31:32.earlier, on social media, from outside the hospital, with police

:31:33. > :31:41.officers are saluting their fallen fellow officers. The latest reports

:31:42. > :31:46.are that the situation is under control, with reports that the

:31:47. > :31:50.fourth gunman, who was holding out against police, shot himself dead.

:31:51. > :31:56.We have not yet had official confirmation that that is in fact

:31:57. > :32:01.the case, but it has been widely reported. Three suspects in custody

:32:02. > :32:07.and five police officers killed and six injured. We heard from President

:32:08. > :32:16.Obama, getting his reaction to what has unfolded. He said, these are

:32:17. > :32:21.senseless murders, we stand united against them. He said, today is a

:32:22. > :32:33.wrenching reminder of the sacrifices the police make for us.

:32:34. > :32:36.A vicious, cultivated and despicable attack on law enforcement. Those

:32:37. > :33:08.were the words of President Obama. Somebody is really aren't to the

:33:09. > :33:33.teeth. This is not one person. The snipers fired on the police

:33:34. > :33:47.officers, causing panic and confusion. In these images, you can

:33:48. > :33:48.see one of the snipers firing shots, and the sound of police sirens

:33:49. > :33:54.wailing in the distance. Later on in this video,

:33:55. > :33:56.you see the sniper shoot someone who appears to be a police officer

:33:57. > :33:59.at point blank range - we aren't showing you those images

:34:00. > :34:02.because they are so graphic. It happened at a Black Lives Matter

:34:03. > :34:07.protest following the fatal shooting of two black men by white police

:34:08. > :34:14.officers in Louisiana and Minnesota. Before the shots rang out,

:34:15. > :34:25.the protests were peaceful. I was walking, and the sniper

:34:26. > :34:39.just started shooting, and all of the cops

:34:40. > :34:41.are getting shot. I just saw the cops bending over,

:34:42. > :34:44.there were five or six cops, It was right after the rally,

:34:45. > :34:49.we were just walking to the car. All the cops...

:34:50. > :34:50.How many? We were running, they just kept

:34:51. > :34:53.shooting, we don't know But I didn't see anybody else get

:34:54. > :34:58.shot, it was just the cops. I didn't see nobody else

:34:59. > :35:09.get shot but the cops. In the past few moments, President

:35:10. > :35:13.Obama has given his reaction. He said - I speak for every single

:35:14. > :35:19.American when I say we are horrified Beard these events. We still do not

:35:20. > :35:22.know all the facts. What we do know is that there has been a vicious,

:35:23. > :35:27.calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement.

:35:28. > :35:30.Police in Dallas were on duty, doing their jobs,

:35:31. > :35:33.keeping people safe during peaceful protests.

:35:34. > :35:36.These law-enforcement officers were targeted.

:35:37. > :35:59.The mayor of Dallas urged the city to come together. I asked everybody

:36:00. > :36:03.to focus on one thing right now - the families, those that are

:36:04. > :36:07.deceased, those that are in hospital fighting for their lives. Let's all

:36:08. > :36:15.come together and support our police officers. I've never been as proud,

:36:16. > :36:22.and I believe we've got one of the best forces in the nation. And we've

:36:23. > :36:27.done things with civil rights in the right way, and we've done it for the

:36:28. > :36:33.safety of our citizens. So please, let's come together right now as a

:36:34. > :36:38.city. A short time ago, Brendan Hester told me how he witnessed a

:36:39. > :36:40.policeman being shot. The shots were just winning right above my head and

:36:41. > :36:46.everything. He came over and told

:36:47. > :36:51.all of us to get behind. He told us to just go,

:36:52. > :36:57.hurry up and run. And after that, a bunch

:36:58. > :37:03.more gunshots rang off. We were there for at least two

:37:04. > :37:08.or three minutes before During those two or three

:37:09. > :37:11.minutes, you heard people, you heard the officer screaming,

:37:12. > :37:14.that's number two! You could literally

:37:15. > :37:33.hear him screaming. Let take a look at some of the

:37:34. > :37:37.reaction on social media. This particularly striking image - police

:37:38. > :37:41.standing in a line outside the hospital, saluting their fellow

:37:42. > :37:46.officers who died. Just one of many dramatic images of the night.

:37:47. > :37:55.Elsewhere, Dallas police have simply tweeted - it has been a devastating

:37:56. > :37:58.nice. Prominent figures in Dallas have expressed solidarity with

:37:59. > :38:03.police and fellow citizens. A black US ComRes woman said, so much

:38:04. > :38:09.tragedy and pain throughout the country. We must remember, violence

:38:10. > :38:13.is not the answer. We must have peace and end gun violence. Texas

:38:14. > :38:17.Governor Greg Abbott has released a statement, saying - in times like

:38:18. > :38:24.this, we must remember the importance of uniting as Americans.

:38:25. > :38:28.Texas Senator Ted Cruz has said - may God protect our fallen heroes

:38:29. > :38:33.and bring peace upon the city of Dallas. The Dallas arts district has

:38:34. > :38:37.tweeted - darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only like can do that.

:38:38. > :38:44.Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. Mark has said -

:38:45. > :38:49.Dallas, we mourn those who lost their lives protect stand together

:38:50. > :38:53.united to cherish those we live and work next. Earlier I spoke to John

:38:54. > :39:05.Matthews, a former Dallas police John Matthews is a for

:39:06. > :39:08.offered the mer Dallas director of an the organisation

:39:09. > :39:11.Community Safety Institute, He's been giving me his

:39:12. > :39:19.reaction to the shootings. Well, it's absolutely horrifying

:39:20. > :39:25.what's been unfolding. shooting ambush-style attack

:39:26. > :39:27.like this, it is absolutely unprecedented, and it's a horrific

:39:28. > :39:29.day for law enforcement I know that you have spoken

:39:30. > :39:33.to police officers in Dallas. There was chaos when the shooting

:39:34. > :39:38.was going on, there was panic, there was concern for their fellow

:39:39. > :39:40.officers, and above all, concern for the safety

:39:41. > :39:43.of the citizens, and our hearts go out to the family members of those

:39:44. > :39:46.officers that have lost their lives, and of the officers that were

:39:47. > :39:49.injured in the line of duty tonight. As you say, obviously police

:39:50. > :39:52.here are dealing with an incident in which they were targeted,

:39:53. > :39:54.officers were killed. As a former officer, how difficult

:39:55. > :39:59.would a situation like that be? It is extremely difficult,

:40:00. > :40:02.because you are out there trying to do your job,

:40:03. > :40:08.protecting the public. They were out there guarding

:40:09. > :40:10.and protecting the demonstrators so that they could have a peaceful

:40:11. > :40:12.demonstration, and now the protectors of society

:40:13. > :40:15.have the targets on their back. They are the ones that

:40:16. > :40:19.are being victimised. These snipers intentionally fired

:40:20. > :40:23.upon the police, and wanted officers and victims,

:40:24. > :40:28.and as a mass shooting expert, I can tell you, this is the first

:40:29. > :40:32.time in the US in the mass shootings that we've had that we have had law

:40:33. > :40:35.enforcement officers actually targeted in one

:40:36. > :40:41.of these mass shootings. How concerned are you about

:40:42. > :40:44.what this says about the faith that some have in the police

:40:45. > :40:47.in the United States right now? Well, I think we've been working

:40:48. > :40:53.on police and community relations been very proactive in reaching out

:40:54. > :40:59.to the faith-based community and the very diverse communities

:41:00. > :41:02.that we have in our cities. I think there is a tremendous amount

:41:03. > :41:06.of anxiety out there right now, and I think it's being manifested

:41:07. > :41:09.in ways beyond public discourse, and manifested in ways

:41:10. > :41:12.like we see tonight, where officers, the protectors

:41:13. > :41:16.of society, are now becoming targets Officers all across this nation,

:41:17. > :41:25.not just in Dallas, but everywhere, have got to be on high alert now

:41:26. > :41:31.at all times in all situations. These protests have come,

:41:32. > :41:33.not just the protest there, there have been many protests

:41:34. > :41:36.in the United States, after two fatal shootings

:41:37. > :41:39.of black men in one week. If you look at the statistics,

:41:40. > :41:42.they show that if you are black, you are more likely to be

:41:43. > :41:45.shot dead by the police. Do some police have an issue

:41:46. > :41:47.with black people? I think the media doesn't report

:41:48. > :41:49.the entire situation, but we have over 57,000 assaults

:41:50. > :41:55.on law enforcement officers We average 144 law enforcement

:41:56. > :42:02.officers killed in the line of duty every single year for the past ten

:42:03. > :42:06.years, and so I think you need to look at the totality

:42:07. > :42:11.of the circumstances out there, and in law enforcement,

:42:12. > :42:16.it is a very, very dangerous profession, and we have officers

:42:17. > :42:18.that are assaulted and killed almost each and every day,

:42:19. > :42:21.and yet it doesn't make the national In the specific cases, though,

:42:22. > :42:26.that are highlighted, and obviously the one particularly

:42:27. > :42:29.in the spotlight right now is Philando Castile,

:42:30. > :42:34.because he was shot dead in Minnesota, and his girlfriend

:42:35. > :42:37.live-streamed the aftermath with a police officer holding a gun

:42:38. > :42:42.through the window of the car as she is saying to the officer,

:42:43. > :42:44."He was just telling you he was going to produce his ID,

:42:45. > :42:48.and he did inform you he had a gun Let me tell you - law enforcement

:42:49. > :43:01.is a very, very stressful job. You are out there trying

:43:02. > :43:03.to protect the citizens, yet you are trying to make sure that

:43:04. > :43:06.at the end of every day, you get to go home each night,

:43:07. > :43:10.and in the cases that we have seen recently, officers fighting suspects

:43:11. > :43:12.with guns or individuals that might have guns,

:43:13. > :43:14.yes, with the 900,000 officers we have out there on the street,

:43:15. > :43:20.there might be some missteps, we have out there on the street,

:43:21. > :43:23.there might be some missteps. But overall, the vast

:43:24. > :43:27.majority of law enforcement, they are out there protecting

:43:28. > :43:40.society, and making sure before we leave this, a final

:43:41. > :43:44.reminder of what we know. Snipers have shot dead five police officers

:43:45. > :43:49.in Dallas during a rally against the shootings of two black men in the

:43:50. > :43:53.country by police this week. Six others are in hospital, some of them

:43:54. > :43:57.in a critical condition. A woman was also wounded. Unconfirmed media

:43:58. > :44:02.reports say a suspect who had been firing at officers from a car park

:44:03. > :44:06.has killed himself. We will have lots more reaction to that from 11

:44:07. > :44:07.o'clock. You can also follow events online. If anything happens, we will

:44:08. > :44:18.update you. One of these women is about to

:44:19. > :44:21.become our next Prime Minister - we'll ask some of the Conservative

:44:22. > :44:24.party members who get to vote whether they're swinging

:44:25. > :44:26.towards Theresa May or Andrea Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom

:44:27. > :44:32.will battle it out to become the Prime Minister

:44:33. > :44:33.after Michael Gove was Theresa May has been one

:44:34. > :44:41.of the longest-serving Home Secretaries in modern history,

:44:42. > :44:44.a job that is notoriously difficult. She was for Remain in

:44:45. > :44:46.the referendum, but was decidedly quiet about it and as such is being

:44:47. > :44:49.pitched as the unity candidate. Before politics she was

:44:50. > :44:51.a financial consultant. She wants to be judged

:44:52. > :44:55.according to her considerable Andrea Leadsom by contrast

:44:56. > :44:58.holds the more junior She was a vocal campaigner

:44:59. > :45:02.for the winning side Before joining parliament in 2010

:45:03. > :45:06.she worked as a City fund manager. In her campaign speech she talks

:45:07. > :45:09.of a desire to create We now talk to Conservative members

:45:10. > :45:13.who will be allowed to vote for their next party leader and this

:45:14. > :45:33.country's prime minister. If you can just introduce sure

:45:34. > :45:37.cells. -- introduce yourselves. My name is Matt and I my decided about

:45:38. > :45:43.who I will support. Have you been before? No, I haven't, things have

:45:44. > :45:47.moved on quite quickly, now we have a couple of candidates to choose

:45:48. > :45:53.from, I will withhold judgment until I have done more research. My name

:45:54. > :45:58.is Adam and I'm also on but I would say that if I were to choose I would

:45:59. > :46:01.possibly be more towards Theresa May, but I see the positives of both

:46:02. > :46:08.candidates. We have a lot to discuss. My name is Jack and my

:46:09. > :46:14.sense is that sector in macro is by a country mile the strongest

:46:15. > :46:22.candidate -- my sense is that Theresa May. But it is slightly

:46:23. > :46:30.disturbing, that this candidate, either candidate, will have a

:46:31. > :46:35.mandate to run the country for four years. I think Theresa May will

:46:36. > :46:41.unify the country, even though I voted Leave. I'm backing Theresa

:46:42. > :46:43.May, I think in a turbulent time we need an experienced pair of

:46:44. > :46:51.Handscomb song on who can negotiate a Brexit and someone who has a

:46:52. > :46:57.proven track record in national security -- experienced pair of

:46:58. > :47:01.hands who can. I will probably vote for Andrea Leadsom, she has good

:47:02. > :47:07.personal qualities, and during the debates, in Brexit, she looked like

:47:08. > :47:11.a leader. It is notable that the majority of you have said Theresa

:47:12. > :47:17.May, even though a few are undecided and one of you said Andrea Leadsom.

:47:18. > :47:20.You represent the votes the MPs have made on this, but it is yet to be

:47:21. > :47:26.seen what the wider constituency will feel. Simon, you are the early

:47:27. > :47:32.one supporting Andrea Leadsom here, wider you think she is better than

:47:33. > :47:36.Theresa May? -- why do you think. You need to be able to reach out to

:47:37. > :47:40.people and foreshore personality in the media, and I think there was a

:47:41. > :47:45.warmth and earthiness and world experience about her, she has spent

:47:46. > :47:49.over 20 years outside politics, and at Simon people are worried about

:47:50. > :47:52.the Westminster bubble and politicians who do not get the

:47:53. > :47:58.outside world, I think she is probably the answer -- at a time

:47:59. > :48:01.when people are worried. You are not talking policy, but your sense of

:48:02. > :48:07.her. Is that what it comes down to? I think so. It has been a very

:48:08. > :48:13.turbulent time, many people have been working 24-7 and there has not

:48:14. > :48:17.always been the opportunity to lay out your policies in detail and what

:48:18. > :48:20.you will do. That sounds as if you have no agenda, but I think the

:48:21. > :48:25.agenda will build and policies will become clear. I'm looking at the

:48:26. > :48:33.personality and the basic tools and values. Pile in everyone, what is

:48:34. > :48:36.the factor for you? We need someone with experience, we are about to go

:48:37. > :48:40.in to post Brexit negotiations with very tough leaders in Europe and we

:48:41. > :48:44.need someone who has dealt with leaders in Europe, who has

:48:45. > :48:49.experience and a track record. Who will fight for the United Kingdom. I

:48:50. > :48:56.think Theresa May is best placed to do that. As someone who voted

:48:57. > :49:05.Remain, I have got sympathy for the idea that it should be a Brexiteer

:49:06. > :49:09.who takes us forward, and even though I voted Remain in the

:49:10. > :49:15.referendum, I have sympathy for those who say, if someone is going

:49:16. > :49:19.to argue for Brexit and represent us, it should be someone who led

:49:20. > :49:25.that campaign. That would be Andrea Leadsom. But you are undecided? Yes,

:49:26. > :49:31.I am. Why are you not swinging behind her question mark I'm yet to

:49:32. > :49:37.understand if she has de experience to fulfil such a role. And if she

:49:38. > :49:43.hasn't, is that what it boils down to? She doesn't have the political

:49:44. > :49:47.experience as Theresa May. It will be interesting how she performs in

:49:48. > :49:54.front of the media, how some of her policies play out and some of the

:49:55. > :50:01.things... Some of the things she is passionate about. She's the unknown

:50:02. > :50:04.quantity, people are more aware of Theresa May, she has been more

:50:05. > :50:08.around and has a higher public profile. Andrea Leadsom does not

:50:09. > :50:13.have that, but you have got to give her the chance to say what she is

:50:14. > :50:18.about. Jack, you said Theresa May by a country mile. You look at the

:50:19. > :50:23.experience and her insight and her dealings at a national level, she is

:50:24. > :50:30.a much better candidate, but it is interesting, both of these

:50:31. > :50:33.candidates have six weeks to convince half the Conservative Party

:50:34. > :50:37.members that they are the right person, not just to lead the party,

:50:38. > :50:45.but to set the agenda and new fiscal policy and new immigration policy

:50:46. > :50:50.and take being -- the entire country forward. One of them will have to

:50:51. > :50:58.realise that all they have to do is get 75,001 party members to endorse

:50:59. > :51:02.their campaign. It is extraordinary risky situation for the country,

:51:03. > :51:05.whichever candidate prevails, they have got to go back to the country

:51:06. > :51:11.within a year after becoming Prime Minister. Theresa May has said there

:51:12. > :51:16.should not be an election. No, both of them have said that. What you

:51:17. > :51:20.think about a general election? I don't invest should be at the

:51:21. > :51:26.moment, but we need to focus on the agenda post Brexit -- I don't think

:51:27. > :51:30.they should be at the moment. We need to focus on making Britain have

:51:31. > :51:36.the best deal they can outside of Europe and going on from there. That

:51:37. > :51:40.is extremely important, when it comes to having a general election,

:51:41. > :51:44.we first focus on what is best for the people, the people voted to

:51:45. > :51:49.leave the European Union. We should focus on that, and then have a

:51:50. > :51:52.general election after that. There will have to be an election if

:51:53. > :51:57.Andrea Leadsom is elected Prime Minister, she was a junior minister,

:51:58. > :52:04.someone who is not in the Cabinet. Her views are not known. You have

:52:05. > :52:09.got to have an election. But not if Theresa May wins? That she has been

:52:10. > :52:16.at the top of the tree and in the Cabinet. Both of them have got to

:52:17. > :52:20.sketch out their policies, and maybe people will see Andrea Leadsom has

:52:21. > :52:25.sufficient policies, and they don't need to go to an election, but we

:52:26. > :52:30.have not seen them so far. We have a big negotiation coming up, there's

:52:31. > :52:34.no on-the-job training, you are thrown in and you have got to know

:52:35. > :52:37.what you are doing, and it will be very difficult for people looking at

:52:38. > :52:48.that choice to choose anyone but Theresa May. Theresa May was word --

:52:49. > :52:55.Remain, even though she was not very prominent, how would you like to see

:52:56. > :52:58.her handle that? The decision has been made and the people that were

:52:59. > :53:04.loyal to the government, my perception is that she's a

:53:05. > :53:07.trustworthy person and she will take the mandate and take it forward, and

:53:08. > :53:12.I've no doubt that she would an excellent job in taking the Brexit

:53:13. > :53:20.mandate forward. Is that fair to say for all of you? You said that you

:53:21. > :53:30.were Remain, but you accept the Brexit way forward. I was very

:53:31. > :53:36.staunchly Remain. What I accept, the country has said we are leaving the

:53:37. > :53:42.EU, but what I also is a huge spectrum as to what that could mean.

:53:43. > :53:44.-- what I also acknowledge is that is a huge victim.

:53:45. > :53:53.Both candidates have got to express what that means to them and the

:53:54. > :53:58.country has got to have a say on the negotiations. Simon, the Tory party

:53:59. > :54:04.has been through a period of very public division. What do you think

:54:05. > :54:09.about the prospects going forward? On a note of optimism, both

:54:10. > :54:17.candidates could and would unite the party, the word unity has got to be

:54:18. > :54:20.salient in this campaign. There are many people who want to have a

:54:21. > :54:25.second referendum or want to get out of the decision the majority of the

:54:26. > :54:33.British people have make-up but I don't think that is healthy. General

:54:34. > :54:39.elections are often won by a small margin, that is democracy and that

:54:40. > :54:42.is the best we have got. We need a Prime Minister to go through with

:54:43. > :54:47.the mandate of Brexit, but also try to bring as many people along with

:54:48. > :54:53.them as we can. Was it the right thing for David Cameron to call this

:54:54. > :54:59.referendum? It was all is going to be a lose situation, if we had won,

:55:00. > :55:07.they would be division in the party, but with the result that has

:55:08. > :55:10.happened, it would also cause this, everything has gone completely

:55:11. > :55:15.messy, we don't know who will be the next leader. We are stuck in a

:55:16. > :55:20.leadership debate, David Cameron has resigned. It has caused a massive

:55:21. > :55:24.controversial issue. I feel it was going to be a lose lose situation,

:55:25. > :55:31.whether that was a division or coming up for a Tory leadership

:55:32. > :55:36.campaign. We are not with the EU in the situation we are in when we last

:55:37. > :55:40.had a referendum, so the ever closer union is not what we voted on last

:55:41. > :55:44.time, so I think was right to go to the country. The referendum was in

:55:45. > :55:48.the manifesto on which we were elected at the last general

:55:49. > :55:51.election, but it is also worth noting, whoever wins the leadership

:55:52. > :55:58.race will be presiding over a wafer thin majority and a party where

:55:59. > :56:02.discipline, loyalty, the tight ship David Cameron ran, that has gone out

:56:03. > :56:07.the window. We need a buckle ourselves into but we are heading to

:56:08. > :56:11.fairly choppy waters. It was not wrong to hold the referendum, but I

:56:12. > :56:15.regret entirely how both sides conducted the referendum campaign. I

:56:16. > :56:21.do think we had a proper debate on the issue, we had scare stories on

:56:22. > :56:25.one side, and also a few whoppers on the other, distorting the opinion,

:56:26. > :56:32.and that is why so many people have regretted how they have voted now.

:56:33. > :56:38.When it comes to the election, in terms of the leadership campaign,

:56:39. > :56:40.the first thing I would point out, we don't have a presidential

:56:41. > :56:46.election system, where we elect a political party to lead us forward.

:56:47. > :56:51.The Conservative Party was only elected just over a year ago, and

:56:52. > :56:57.the second thing, I've been an activist for over 18 months, and I

:56:58. > :57:02.have fought two elections already, the general election, and a local

:57:03. > :57:07.election for the London mayor, and there isn't an appetite in the

:57:08. > :57:16.grassroots, the people that I campaign with, to fight another

:57:17. > :57:19.election. There will be an appetite from the people who do not get to

:57:20. > :57:26.choose who the next Prime Minister is and what the approach is after

:57:27. > :57:28.Brexit. That is the challenge. That is a Conservative government, and

:57:29. > :57:35.they are still going to get a Conservative government will stop

:57:36. > :57:38.both candidates said they will use the same mandate, they will continue

:57:39. > :57:46.the mandate of the Conservative Party. Andrea Leadsom said this and

:57:47. > :57:50.Theresa May will stick by this. We are going to have a second female

:57:51. > :57:55.prime minister. I think that is amazing. The Conservatives have put

:57:56. > :58:01.forward two female candidates. Labour can't say this. No special

:58:02. > :58:05.measures. The so-called Progressive party has filed to get a woman to

:58:06. > :58:12.this position but we will have the second one -- failed. Thank you for

:58:13. > :58:13.your thoughts. September nine, that is when we will get the result on

:58:14. > :58:26.that. Thank you for your company today. We

:58:27. > :58:28.will keep you up-to-date with events in Dallas.