Labour Leaders Debate

:00:11. > :00:18.This morning - who do you want to be the next leader of the Labour party?

:00:19. > :00:22.The two men who're battling it out for the top job are here with us

:00:23. > :00:36.It's not even a year since Jeremy Corbyn

:00:37. > :00:40.was elected leader of the Labour party - but after he lost

:00:41. > :00:43.the confidence of most of his MPs - he's now fighting to stay

:00:44. > :01:12.His challenger, a man called Owen Smith,

:01:13. > :01:16.not known by that many outside Westminster and his Welsh

:01:17. > :01:19.constituency; he joined the labour party at the age of 16 and has been

:01:20. > :01:37.As you can see we're joined by an audience of 100 people who're

:01:38. > :01:40.here to talk direct to the two wannabe prime ministers

:01:41. > :01:43.and to tell us what they think of the current state

:01:44. > :01:49.Hello, I'm Nazia, a mental health advocate and Labour voter.

:01:50. > :01:53.I think the party is an utter shambles at the moment.

:01:54. > :02:11.He exudes honesty and integrity, and despite his heavy rebranding, Owen

:02:12. > :02:13.Smith doesn't. Hi, I'm Maria, a charity

:02:14. > :02:16.worker and labour member. He's a much better communicator

:02:17. > :02:20.and the party is becoming Hello, I'm Collins

:02:21. > :02:26.a science teacher. For the first time I'm

:02:27. > :02:29.considering voting for the Conservatives, such

:02:30. > :02:31.is my disillusionment with both men We will definitely explore that

:02:32. > :02:39.further in the next couple of hours. And as always really

:02:40. > :02:47.keen to hear from you. Much to come from Mr

:02:48. > :03:17.Corbyn and Mr Smith - as well as from you -

:03:18. > :03:20.tell us what you think about the current state

:03:21. > :03:22.of the Labour party, whether you think Labour has become,

:03:23. > :03:24.as some have suggested, Tell us who you'd think

:03:25. > :03:28.would make the best leader Use the hashtag VictoriaLIVE

:03:29. > :03:35.and if you text, you will be charged

:03:36. > :03:40.at the standard network rate. Before we hear our audience

:03:41. > :03:42.and the two contenders in conversation, let's get

:03:43. > :03:44.the latest on the And another sensational

:03:45. > :03:54.night in the velodrome. Good morning, Victoria. Yeah, an

:03:55. > :03:57.amazing night. The size of their

:03:58. > :03:59.achievement cannot be underestimated, in fact,

:04:00. > :04:00.GB Cycling deserves Every single track cyclist that went

:04:01. > :04:06.to Rio will bring back a medal. Yesterday, Becky James

:04:07. > :04:09.and Katy Marchant took silver and bronze in the Women's sprint

:04:10. > :04:11.in the Velodrome too, with Golds from Jason Kenny

:04:12. > :04:19.and Laura Trott leading of Six Olympic Gold Medals held now,

:04:20. > :04:27.by he and Sir Chris Hoy. The 28-year old took the Keirin

:04:28. > :04:30.title in dramatic fashion after the race was restarted on two

:04:31. > :04:32.occasions because of infringements. It's his 7th medal in all at his

:04:33. > :04:44.third Olympic Games. I was there in Beijing, obviously,

:04:45. > :04:47.when Chris won his three, and I knew at the time

:04:48. > :04:49.it was special. And I think as years have gone by,

:04:50. > :04:52.I appreciate it even more, how special those Olympics were,

:04:53. > :04:55.and how amazing Chris was then. So to come here and do

:04:56. > :04:57.the same is amazing. Ten gold medals between

:04:58. > :05:01.you, that's not bad? There was an incredible

:05:02. > :05:04.achievement for Kenny's fiance, She became the first British Woman

:05:05. > :05:08.to win Four Olympic Gold Medals as she reatined the Omnium title

:05:09. > :05:10.she won at London She took the multiple

:05:11. > :05:16.race event by just 24 points to move clear of equestrian

:05:17. > :05:21.rider Charlotte Dujardin, who won her third gold

:05:22. > :05:24.at the weekend in Rio. And Trott was very emotional

:05:25. > :05:25.after securing gold with an exemplary performance

:05:26. > :05:27.in the hundred lap And it was a very emotional

:05:28. > :05:32.night for the couple. Trott greeted Kenny off

:05:33. > :05:34.the bike following his win, the pair now have 10 Gold

:05:35. > :05:41.medals between them. She tweeted afterwards

:05:42. > :05:43.saying 'our kids have to get some I think most people are hoping that

:05:44. > :05:51.comes after some more gold medals But good luck to the pair,

:05:52. > :06:10.they'll marry next month. They don't have to hold off until

:06:11. > :06:18.Tokyo! But we all want the medals, don't we? How proud Ayew of Team GB?

:06:19. > :06:20.They have smashed the medals target with five days to go, it is

:06:21. > :06:31.fantastic. Not just in the cycling where there

:06:32. > :06:38.were medals for Great Britain, Yes, virtually every morning we talk

:06:39. > :06:49.about medals for Team GB. performance from diver

:06:50. > :06:51.Jack Laugher. He won a silver

:06:52. > :06:53.in the men's individual 3 metres springboard final,

:06:54. > :06:55.six days after he claimed a synchronised gold alongside

:06:56. > :06:58.partner Chris Mears. That was Team GB's 50th

:06:59. > :07:02.medal of the Games. Theres's a special

:07:03. > :07:04.mention for Amy Tinckler, the 16 year old, and

:07:05. > :07:06.the youngest member of Team GB became the second woman

:07:07. > :07:12.to win an individual gymnastics She wins a medal a week before

:07:13. > :07:21.she gets her GCSE results. Fellow gymnast Nile Wilson took

:07:22. > :07:26.bronze on the high bars. All our medallists

:07:27. > :07:28.deserve a mention today, sailor Giles Scott won gold

:07:29. > :07:31.in the Finn class, and there was a boxing

:07:32. > :07:38.bronze for Joshua Buatsi. And there are even more medals

:07:39. > :07:52.guaranteed for Team GB? Yes there are. We will mention

:07:53. > :07:55.Nicola Adams in a moment. Plenty to come in the sailing.

:07:56. > :07:58.GB are currently second in the medals table with 19 Golds,

:07:59. > :08:00.two ahead of China and with 50 medals in all.

:08:01. > :08:03.Great Britain's Hannah Mills and Saskia Clark will win Olympic

:08:04. > :08:05.gold in the women's 470 sailing as long as they finish

:08:06. > :08:10.Nicola Adams too, she was back in action

:08:11. > :08:12.and became the first British boxer to win two

:08:13. > :08:14.Olympic medals in 56 years when advanced to the

:08:15. > :08:24.semi-finals of the women's flyweight division.

:08:25. > :08:26.It means she's guaranteed at least bronze as both losing semi

:08:27. > :08:31.So there is plenty for Team GB fans still to look

:08:32. > :08:42.So that's all the latest from the Olympics; now the rest

:08:43. > :08:44.of the days headlines with Annita McVeigh.

:08:45. > :08:48.Banks and accountancy firms that help their clients to unlawfully

:08:49. > :08:51.avoid tax could face huge fines under new proposals

:08:52. > :08:55.Ministers have published plans which would give courts

:08:56. > :09:01.the power to impose fines equivalent to the total amount of tax avoided.

:09:02. > :09:03.The US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has spoken

:09:04. > :09:06.out in support of the police after a series of fatal

:09:07. > :09:10.He's said the recent shooting of a black man by police

:09:11. > :09:18.And Mr Trump accused his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton,

:09:19. > :09:21.of being responsible for the unrest in the city, where he's been

:09:22. > :09:25.School leavers are being urged to get themselves vaccinated

:09:26. > :09:27.against a potentially deadly strain of meningitis.

:09:28. > :09:29.Public Health England and officials in Wales say

:09:30. > :09:31.the jab will help protect against Meningitis W,

:09:32. > :09:34.after the number of cases rose from 22 in 2009 to over

:09:35. > :09:43.Experts say new students are particularly at risk

:09:44. > :09:46.as they meet new people carrying unfamiliar bacteria.s

:09:47. > :09:48.as they meet new people carrying unfamiliar bacteria.

:09:49. > :09:51.The chief suspects in the murder of a woman from Bradford will appear

:09:52. > :09:56.Samia Shahid, a 28-year-old beautician,

:09:57. > :09:59.died last month in what is believed to have been a so-called

:10:00. > :10:17.Her former husband and her father are currently being held in custody.

:10:18. > :10:20.Hello and welcome to our programme on the future of Labour -

:10:21. > :10:29.we're live in Nottingham this morning.

:10:30. > :10:32.So, which of these men do you want to lead the Labour party

:10:33. > :10:42.Maybe it's neither but only these two are standing in this

:10:43. > :10:46.Jeremy Corbyn who defied the odds to win a labour leadership

:10:47. > :10:52.contest a year ago - but has since been dogged with

:10:53. > :10:58.Or Owen Smith a relatively new Labour MP -

:10:59. > :11:02.Even he admits he's not a household name

:11:03. > :11:06.But will that change come September 24th when the new

:11:07. > :11:09.In a sentence gentlemen,how confident you are that

:11:10. > :11:18.I feel very optimistic about it. We've received the support of over

:11:19. > :11:22.280 constituency Labour parties and we are touring the whole country,

:11:23. > :11:27.doing rallies and meetings in areas where there is Labour support but

:11:28. > :11:31.also Conservative held areas to take the campaign to the Tories of the

:11:32. > :11:35.kind of Britain we want to where there is decent housing, good

:11:36. > :11:46.education opportunities and a fully functioning, free NHS. APPLAUSE

:11:47. > :11:53.How confident can you be, Mr Smith, of winning, particularly now those

:11:54. > :11:58.constituency Labour Party is, almost 300, going for Jeremy Corbyn? A lot

:11:59. > :12:02.of those votes have been narrow and I'm confident I'm persuading people

:12:03. > :12:05.all over the country. I was in Oxford last night and I will be all

:12:06. > :12:09.over the country persuading people that we need to get ready for

:12:10. > :12:15.government and at the moment I think that needs we need to change the

:12:16. > :12:19.leader of the party, a bit more credible. Still radical and sticking

:12:20. > :12:27.to our roots and beliefs but perhaps speaking a bit more directly to the

:12:28. > :12:30.country. Let me tell you about our audience.

:12:31. > :12:38.voters is made up entirely of people who're either Labour members' Labour

:12:39. > :12:41.supporters or people who say they might vote Labour in a future

:12:42. > :12:43.general election depending on who the next leader is.

:12:44. > :12:45.A third of our audience - those sitting here -

:12:46. > :12:51.already know they want to support Jeremy Corbyn.

:12:52. > :12:53.This third, sitting here in the middle,

:12:54. > :13:07.Some have said they are here to hear both contenders and they may reach a

:13:08. > :13:11.conclusion by 11am. They don't yet know. They want to hear the two men

:13:12. > :13:13.in their own words, effectively. And this third sitting over

:13:14. > :13:25.here support Owen Smith. So tell us why you're supporting

:13:26. > :13:37.who you're supporting? Introduce yourself. And Peter Gates,

:13:38. > :13:40.I work in education in Nottingham. I support Jeremy because of his

:13:41. > :13:44.honesty, integrity and compassion. I've been to a number of meetings

:13:45. > :13:48.Jeremy has spoken at, and that each he has been an inspiration. Two

:13:49. > :13:53.people in a cross-section of the country. He's been an MP for over 30

:13:54. > :13:57.years and during that time he's been consistently supporting progressive

:13:58. > :13:59.causes, even though that may have been difficult for him sometimes

:14:00. > :14:04.with colleagues in the Parliamentary Labour Party. At the end of it I

:14:05. > :14:07.think Jeremy is a thoroughly decent bloke and he doesn't deserve to be

:14:08. > :14:17.treated in the way that he has so far by members of Parliament. We

:14:18. > :14:20.will definitely come back to your point about the way some members of

:14:21. > :14:26.Parliament have treated their own leader. And Steve, a solicitor, a

:14:27. > :14:31.long-standing member of the Labour Party and I'm voting for Owen Smith.

:14:32. > :14:37.Let us remember our history. Labour exists to get things done. That is

:14:38. > :14:41.the most important thing. If we don't get power we get nothing done.

:14:42. > :14:49.It's not a question of being left or right or anything. Let us remember

:14:50. > :14:53.the health service, let us remember what others have done. Labour has

:14:54. > :14:58.been a broad church in the past and what Harold Wilson said in the 60s,

:14:59. > :15:02.Labour is a broad church. We are in danger of becoming a narrow church.

:15:03. > :15:09.If we become a narrow church we will not win. Finally, Europe. I am

:15:10. > :15:14.passionately pro-Europe, I was extremely disappointed with you,

:15:15. > :15:18.Jeremy, if I can address you directly, you did not campaign hard

:15:19. > :15:25.enough, you did not go to the north-east. Why, I don't know. Just

:15:26. > :15:34.let me speak and you can talk shortly, OK? Can I move the

:15:35. > :15:39.conversation on? Yes, fine. But my general point is there. And I do not

:15:40. > :15:43.think we should lie down and accept Brexit, we should fight for our

:15:44. > :15:49.place in Europe. It is too important.

:15:50. > :16:01.I was under the understanding that Labour was the party had welcomed

:16:02. > :16:06.everyone, that clearly is not the case at the minute. I feel we are

:16:07. > :16:10.pigeonholed into a certain member of society, our reasons are questioned

:16:11. > :16:16.as to why we have joined the party, I feel I'm told you I should

:16:17. > :16:21.support, why I should support them, I am not as important... I spend a

:16:22. > :16:27.lot of time on twitter, from reading the media as well, the names have

:16:28. > :16:33.been called, I am mum on the Trinity leave, I'm not a cult member, I feel

:16:34. > :16:36.strongly about passion and getting involved in politics and now I feel

:16:37. > :16:40.I may have made a massive mistake because I'm not welcome, I am not

:16:41. > :16:45.important and I want to play a part in the future because my membership

:16:46. > :16:49.and the leaves are questioned, why worth of paying ?25 for a vote, I

:16:50. > :16:55.wonder why people should join the Labour Party, was that the kind of

:16:56. > :17:00.thing we do? As I said, I'm on maternity leave, things are tight,

:17:01. > :17:04.so it was a choice of doing something, I'm not saying my kids

:17:05. > :17:08.didn't get fed but it makes a lot of difference to someone and why should

:17:09. > :17:12.I have to pay to show that I want to be here and I want to play our part

:17:13. > :17:17.and fun to be the future of the Labour Party? I would love to sit

:17:18. > :17:24.where you guys are, how can I do that when I'm told mainly my place

:17:25. > :17:33.in the party isn't secure? Future leader perhaps! Good morning. My

:17:34. > :17:37.name is Karen, I am a planning consultant with a small business and

:17:38. > :17:41.a long-standing Labour member. I am unconvinced that either of you are

:17:42. > :17:48.actually suitable to lead this party. Why do you say that? I think

:17:49. > :17:55.there has been a lot of squabbling. At the end of the day, it is they

:17:56. > :17:59.lost sight that you are elected members, here to represent the

:18:00. > :18:03.electorate and the community, and the whole thing seems to have

:18:04. > :18:08.degenerated down to a playground type squabble. I am yet to be

:18:09. > :18:12.convinced and I'm here today because I would hope that one or both of you

:18:13. > :18:18.will convince me that you are suitable and appropriate and capable

:18:19. > :18:19.of leading this party and taking on the Conservatives in the next

:18:20. > :18:23.election. OK, let's hear a little bit

:18:24. > :18:25.about each of the candidates... They've both been briefed

:18:26. > :18:43.to tell us in one This is the nonpolitical slot, is

:18:44. > :18:48.it? I have been MP for Islington for a long time, since the 93, I live in

:18:49. > :18:53.the area, I love the community and I get a lot from meeting people, I'm

:18:54. > :18:57.involved in local community events and charities and so forth and learn

:18:58. > :19:00.a lot from talking to people, because everybody you meet know

:19:01. > :19:05.something you don't know. It's important in life to have a balance

:19:06. > :19:10.in what you do and don't become obsessive in your job. So I do a lot

:19:11. > :19:14.of other things, I run, I have an allotment, I read widely, I make

:19:15. > :19:20.things at home and I enjoy cycling very much and I spend as much time

:19:21. > :19:25.as I can on my bike because it's a way of getting great exercise, it's

:19:26. > :19:31.the most perfect form of technology... But you know Jason

:19:32. > :19:34.Kenny! Absolutely not but I had the pleasure of being interviewed by

:19:35. > :19:39.Bradley Wiggins for Radio 4 last Christmas and he thought my bike was

:19:40. > :19:45.a bit passe... He was right, but he didn't offer me a carbon fibre

:19:46. > :19:50.frame, which would have been nice! In life, you have to keep a balance,

:19:51. > :19:54.so understanding people, understanding our environment and

:19:55. > :20:01.society but above all being prepared to read widely, think differently.

:20:02. > :20:04.What book are you reading? I'm reading a novel written by a

:20:05. > :20:08.Bangladeshi writer who became a graduate at Harvard and then went

:20:09. > :20:13.back to Bangladesh and worked hard defending people who were employed

:20:14. > :20:17.as ship breakers on the beach near Chittagong, it has become quite

:20:18. > :20:20.violent in the way some of those workers have been treated and the

:20:21. > :20:24.life they lead and the corruption that goes on, I haven't got to the

:20:25. > :20:34.end. So far I doesn't look promising. Owen Smith. I'm reading a

:20:35. > :20:40.book called Purity, which is in no way ironic or about the Labour

:20:41. > :20:43.Party. I have been an MP for 60s, I was a BBC journalist at the

:20:44. > :20:46.beginning of my career and then worked for the last Labour

:20:47. > :20:54.government on the peace process in Northern Ireland for three years and

:20:55. > :20:58.then I worked for two big companies, I am wracked with nerves today, not

:20:59. > :21:02.because of appearing on this programme, because I'm looking

:21:03. > :21:06.forward to this but because the Smith household is expecting GCSE

:21:07. > :21:10.results next week and A-level results tomorrow, I'm looking

:21:11. > :21:13.forward to going home from here to see my son Jack who I haven't seen

:21:14. > :21:19.for a couple of weeks, to be with him tomorrow when he gets his

:21:20. > :21:22.results. I also have an allotment, like Jeremy, we had to get rid of

:21:23. > :21:32.hours because my wife started work as a schoolteacher, but I'm just

:21:33. > :21:36.stunned as he is of growing beans. You could share his allotment, he

:21:37. > :21:47.said! There is an image to conjure up. Digging for Britain! Debating

:21:48. > :21:53.the variety of potatoes. Some comments from you already. Rob says,

:21:54. > :21:57.I'm a Labour member but I am concerned about the ability of

:21:58. > :22:00.Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister. Roz says, should the Labour Party

:22:01. > :22:02.suspended and investigate any member that describes any others as storm

:22:03. > :22:34.troopers stop? I see Corbin and Smith as dinosaurs,

:22:35. > :22:39.the world has moved on. I have been impressed by Theresa May and if she

:22:40. > :22:45.lives up to her word, she will get my vote, how does that make you

:22:46. > :22:48.feel? Absolutely terrible. We know there were potentially 2 million

:22:49. > :22:52.Labour voters who voted Labour at the last election who are

:22:53. > :22:57.contemplating voting Tory right now because we are at such a low ebb.

:22:58. > :23:00.Our printer should think about the rail industry, poor example, we

:23:01. > :23:05.built it, we have invested in it, the train operators are making huge

:23:06. > :23:16.profits out of it, shouldn't they get the public instead? Since Labour

:23:17. > :23:20.lost the general election in 2015 and Jeremy Corbyn was elected

:23:21. > :23:31.leader, the party has been riddled with infighting and mudslinging.

:23:32. > :23:40.The Conservatives are the largest party. This is not the speech I

:23:41. > :23:41.wanted to give today. Now it's time for someone else to take forward the

:23:42. > :23:58.leadership of this party. 251,000... We don't have to be

:23:59. > :24:07.unequal. It doesn't have to be unfair. Poverty isn't inevitable.

:24:08. > :24:11.Things can, and they will, change. Have you changed your position on

:24:12. > :24:22.air strikes? He is a good and decent man but not a leader. You are a Nazi

:24:23. > :24:27.apologist, rewriting history! I believe we have to boat to remain to

:24:28. > :24:35.defend investment, jobs and workers' rights. -- vote to remain. For these

:24:36. > :24:40.qualities, I don't believe that leader is Jeremy. I don't think he

:24:41. > :24:45.is in a position to provide leadership. I think I have served in

:24:46. > :24:49.the best way I can and today I have to go. I think he is likely to

:24:50. > :25:01.continue as leader of the Labour Party, he has the support of the

:25:02. > :25:09.membership. This party is teetering on the brink of extinction. It would

:25:10. > :25:19.be a good thing if Labour MPs got behind their leader. 172 voted no

:25:20. > :25:24.confidence in your leadership. And why on this camera? We have got to

:25:25. > :25:43.stop this now. -- am I on this camera?

:25:44. > :25:50.It really is a remarkable state of affairs.

:25:51. > :26:00.That music was incredibly dramatic! We will hear from you first. Good

:26:01. > :26:05.morning gentlemen, thank you becoming to Nottingham. My name is

:26:06. > :26:12.Dale and I live and work in this city forced my question is, there is

:26:13. > :26:19.an undeniable riffs, a chasm, that exist at the moment between the PLP

:26:20. > :26:22.and the core membership. Whichever of the unity gentlemen win the

:26:23. > :26:28.contest, you must fundamentally have the ability to heal this rift and

:26:29. > :26:36.unite the party. What is your question? If Mr Corbyn and Mr Smith

:26:37. > :26:42.could allude to how they are going to heal the rift. How do you unite

:26:43. > :26:48.the membership and your own Labour MPs if you win? The first thing to

:26:49. > :26:51.say in answer to that question, and the new member spoke earlier on, my

:26:52. > :26:56.experience is that although the members that I meet, the vast

:26:57. > :27:01.majority, they all joined the same reason I did, they all believe in

:27:02. > :27:06.when they to make Britain a fairer place, they want to improve their

:27:07. > :27:09.communities, they are all wanting the Labour Party to be a catalyst

:27:10. > :27:15.for change. We have got to start being honest that there is more that

:27:16. > :27:21.unites us than divides us. That is a slogan. If you are a leader, you

:27:22. > :27:25.have to make the part of how you address the party. I don't think

:27:26. > :27:30.there is a chasm between the PLP and the membership, I think both the PLP

:27:31. > :27:34.and the membership baldly want the same thing. There is laughter over

:27:35. > :27:39.there, I think there has been a force narrative created that there

:27:40. > :27:45.was a great chasm. What there was is a chasm between the large proportion

:27:46. > :27:49.of the PLP in Jeremy, and half the mothership, and the reasons that is

:27:50. > :27:53.we have been closer to Jeremy, we are the people who worked with him.

:27:54. > :27:59.If you work in a company or a council and look every at the way in

:28:00. > :28:03.which the leader of that body leads your group... If they don't do good

:28:04. > :28:15.job, it is there enough speed to say, we don't want that leadership.

:28:16. > :28:19.-- fair enough to say. There were some derisive laughter when Mr Smith

:28:20. > :28:24.said there wasn't this chasm between Labour and MPs, tell me why. The

:28:25. > :28:34.laughter is around the democracy, which brings me to the point I

:28:35. > :28:37.wanted to make. Before you ask a question I would like Mr Corbyn to

:28:38. > :28:44.answer the first question, how did you unite members and Labour MPs. A

:28:45. > :28:50.year ago I was elected leader of the party, might question was, we have

:28:51. > :28:55.changed economic message to one which was opposed to austerity and

:28:56. > :28:58.in favour of redistribution. I appointed a Shadow Cabinet that

:28:59. > :29:04.included people who absolutely opposed Mike election as leader, and

:29:05. > :29:06.I wanted to create a broad-based Shadow Cabinet and team and I will

:29:07. > :29:11.do exactly the same again if re-elected in September because I do

:29:12. > :29:18.want the PLP... It didn't work last time away with it at work this time?

:29:19. > :29:22.I would ask those Labour MPs to remember they had been elected like

:29:23. > :29:26.I have and like Irene has, as Labour MPs, we have a huge responsibility

:29:27. > :29:32.to resent our party and the people who elected us, so we had to work

:29:33. > :29:35.together on the issues of austerity, education, health, I will reach out

:29:36. > :29:45.to them and invite them to come on board and work together to achieve

:29:46. > :29:49.that. -- represent our party. You have already done that the number of

:29:50. > :29:54.occasions and continues to fail. I was faced with a series of organised

:29:55. > :30:02.and orchestrated resignations over a period of days. I have since

:30:03. > :30:08.appointed other people to be Shadow Cabinet who have worked extremely

:30:09. > :30:10.hard, Angela Rayner for example as Shadow Education Secretary, and if

:30:11. > :30:16.elected again, I will try and reach out to all members of the PLP and

:30:17. > :30:20.invite them to get on board because there are an awful lot of issues we

:30:21. > :30:23.can agree on and we can take the fight to the Tories and that is what

:30:24. > :30:30.Labour supporters and members and millions of voters want us to do.

:30:31. > :30:38.Why the groans when Mr Corbyn talked about orchestrated and organised

:30:39. > :30:43.resignations from his Cabinet? There have been a lot of reports from MPs

:30:44. > :30:47.who actually went against you and were probably centre leaning in the

:30:48. > :30:51.middle of the party who you did not work with. Like the MP who had

:30:52. > :30:56.cancer recently who was fired then reinstated or without her knowledge.

:30:57. > :31:00.And Jess Phillips recently did a thing where she came to you with

:31:01. > :31:06.reports of sexual harassment and abuse and your office didn't do

:31:07. > :31:11.anything. It seems to me there was one interview when you were being

:31:12. > :31:17.followed. Listen, I have dealt with, very strongly, and very robustly,

:31:18. > :31:22.any complaints about abuse on social media, personal abuse or abuse of

:31:23. > :31:26.anybody else, it has no place in any political party. I proposed and it

:31:27. > :31:30.was agreed unanimously a statement to the national executive of the

:31:31. > :31:33.party on behaviour and racism in the party, that is the position we have,

:31:34. > :31:39.it is not acceptable and tolerated by me or anybody else. We have an

:31:40. > :31:42.institutional enquiry into this and rule changes will follow. Labour

:31:43. > :31:48.will be the first political party to have a clear statement of antiracism

:31:49. > :31:52.within its party. What kind of rule changes with yellow rule changes to

:31:53. > :31:56.provide a due process of representation, adjudication and

:31:57. > :32:02.appeal. What does that mean? It means that anyone that is accused of

:32:03. > :32:05.making a wrong remark, a racist remark, will have the right to put

:32:06. > :32:08.their case, a right to representation, and of course will

:32:09. > :32:13.be suspended in the meantime while the investigation goes on. It will

:32:14. > :32:18.not be done just by promote group of people. Why will that stop abuse? It

:32:19. > :32:24.won't necessarily stop abuse but what it will do is make sure there

:32:25. > :32:28.is a clear line of decision-making, and a clear line of culture saying,

:32:29. > :32:33.we do not accept any of this in any shape or form within the party from

:32:34. > :32:41.whoever it comes. For example, the Jess Phillips think, when women in

:32:42. > :32:45.particular come to you with stories of abuse, the way you respond

:32:46. > :32:51.saying, I've been abused, too. But it's different. I did not say that.

:32:52. > :32:55.It seems like you don't understand. I have made it absolutely clear that

:32:56. > :33:01.any kind of abuse is totally unacceptable in any form. And that

:33:02. > :33:05.is the position of the party. But then why is it still happening? It

:33:06. > :33:09.is the position of all of us and I should imagine it is your position

:33:10. > :33:14.as well. You said to the Observer the best way to deal with abuse was

:33:15. > :33:20.ignorant. No, I said personal abuse to me, I am not willing to respond

:33:21. > :33:23.to it. So far as anybody else is concerned, I think they should

:33:24. > :33:29.report it and have it investigated and it should be closed down. Owen

:33:30. > :33:32.Smith, in an interview on our programming a few weeks ago you said

:33:33. > :33:38.to me you thought Jeremy Corbyn encouraged that kind of abuse. Well,

:33:39. > :33:41.I don't remember saying that. I think I'm very clear about it,

:33:42. > :33:47.Jeremy hasn't stamped down hard enough on it. Quite often when you

:33:48. > :33:55.ask Jeremy he says, you're abuse, I'm abused, and somehow that's OK. I

:33:56. > :33:59.did not say that. It was reported in the Observer. You do quite often

:34:00. > :34:05.respond by saying we are all abused and we should ignore it. I think the

:34:06. > :34:08.thing that people feel in the party is that you haven't stamped down on

:34:09. > :34:13.it hard enough. What would you do differently? In some of the

:34:14. > :34:19.instances where we had anti-Semitic abuse within the Labour Party, we

:34:20. > :34:25.should kick those people out of the party. There isn't any place for it.

:34:26. > :34:29.There have been occasions when Jeremy has just not seemed bothered

:34:30. > :34:34.enough by it. So you'd go straight Fritz Balsam rather than any enquiry

:34:35. > :34:41.-- you'd go straight for expiry rather than an enquiry? Lots of the

:34:42. > :34:46.Jewish Labour MP colleagues feel that Jeremy wasn't quick enough to

:34:47. > :34:50.condemn anti-Semitic abuse. We are the Labour Party and we are having a

:34:51. > :34:53.debate on national television about anti-Semitism and misogyny within

:34:54. > :35:00.the Labour Party. That should make us all deeply ashamed, in my view.

:35:01. > :35:05.We should respond much stronger than saying abuse is bad, I'm going to

:35:06. > :35:09.ignore it. You know there have been 19 people suspended, most of those

:35:10. > :35:13.cases predate my leadership, they are under investigation, a decision

:35:14. > :35:18.will be made on them. You know that as well as I do. We have put forward

:35:19. > :35:23.a very clear policy on this. That's something you and I completely agree

:35:24. > :35:27.on. Can we agree we want this party to be one that is inclusive, open,

:35:28. > :35:31.welcoming, that does not tolerate any kind of foul language, racism in

:35:32. > :35:39.any form whatsoever, I'm sure we agree. Maybe we should just be clear

:35:40. > :35:44.about this. There are shades of hard left opinion in Britain that have

:35:45. > :35:49.drifted into anti-Semitic abuse because of their concerns about

:35:50. > :35:55.Israel. And that is at the heart of concerns of many in the party. This

:35:56. > :35:58.is absolutely true. Nobody is going to deny that on the hard left of

:35:59. > :36:02.politics in this country and elsewhere across the West there has

:36:03. > :36:06.been anti-Semitism, it's absolutely fact that that has been the case.

:36:07. > :36:10.The point people feel is that we need to make sure. On the hard right

:36:11. > :36:15.and on the hard left there has been that. People feel at very best we

:36:16. > :36:23.have been insensitive to those concerns. And we should be the party

:36:24. > :36:26.that speaks the decency and tolerance. For us to be mired in a

:36:27. > :36:35.debate about anti-Semitism is truly shaming of us all. Hello. And

:36:36. > :36:41.Jessica from Derby, and I've been a member of the Labour Party for three

:36:42. > :36:47.years now. And recently I've been considering going to the Labour

:36:48. > :36:51.Party conference in September. And I would much rather, I would feel more

:36:52. > :36:54.comfortable going to a Conservative conference saying I'm a Labour

:36:55. > :36:59.supporter than going to the Labour Party conference saying I'm an Owen

:37:00. > :37:04.Smith supporter. Wow, seriously? Seriously. Personally I haven't had

:37:05. > :37:10.much abuse but that's because my presence online is very small. But I

:37:11. > :37:13.went to the youth Labour Party conference and there were some

:37:14. > :37:18.things that went on there that really went acceptable. And I'll

:37:19. > :37:22.admit it was on both sides. But I definitely felt just because I

:37:23. > :37:28.didn't support Jeremy or I wasn't a massive supporter of Jeremy at the

:37:29. > :37:35.time, that I was somehow different to other people, and that there was

:37:36. > :37:38.just so much going on at all these conferences. Just sometimes I don't

:37:39. > :37:45.feel comfortable going to large groups of Labour members. You should

:37:46. > :37:49.feel comfortable at any Labour Party meeting or conference whatever your

:37:50. > :37:52.point of view, absolutely. I was at the Labour youth conference for the

:37:53. > :37:57.last day, I spoke to a lot of members. Clearly there had been an

:37:58. > :38:01.awful lot of arguments the previous day, some of which I think had been

:38:02. > :38:04.deeply unpleasant. Indeed we asked for a report on the national

:38:05. > :38:08.executive and looked at the way in which the Labour youth conference is

:38:09. > :38:12.run, to make sure that it is more open, more inclusive, and absolutely

:38:13. > :38:17.tolerant of differences and differences of opinion. And that is

:38:18. > :38:20.the Labour way of doing things. Can I ask for an example of what you

:38:21. > :38:25.said was unacceptable, bearing in mind this is the school holidays,

:38:26. > :38:29.morning television, an example of something that went on that you

:38:30. > :38:32.found abhorrent? There was Twitter abuse. I don't really want to

:38:33. > :38:38.mention any names. But there was twitter abuse against all sides of

:38:39. > :38:45.the party. I specifically remember one girl had to go out crying. And

:38:46. > :38:48.she was a supporter of Jeremy. And I felt that it was really unfair on

:38:49. > :38:55.her, just because she supported Jeremy. There was nothing wrong with

:38:56. > :38:58.what she said. But it's the general behaviour on your site. Some people

:38:59. > :39:03.forget that Twitter is something that is going to be there for all

:39:04. > :39:07.time. They make totally uncalled for, unpleasant remarks. It happens

:39:08. > :39:11.in all walks of life and it shouldn't happen. And people should

:39:12. > :39:13.remember that if you say something on Twitter or Facebook it is

:39:14. > :39:21.basically there the whole world every time. We are against it, I am

:39:22. > :39:24.sure you are, to. But there is a reason it is happening, Jeremy,

:39:25. > :39:27.because we have become divided between people who are supportive of

:39:28. > :39:31.you and the rest of the Labour Party. The truth is unfortunately

:39:32. > :39:36.some people seem to feel that you are the only socialist in the Labour

:39:37. > :39:39.Party. Some people seem to feel that you are the only guardian of our

:39:40. > :39:45.values because you've voted against the last Labour government a lot.

:39:46. > :39:49.The truth is I'm not a red Tory, I'm not a Blairite, I'm a socialist same

:39:50. > :39:53.as you, but I am being castigated. Again they laugh but I'm just

:39:54. > :39:58.telling the truth. I have never considered myself a Blairite, I have

:39:59. > :40:01.always considered myself a socialist. Unfortunately in this

:40:02. > :40:04.current climate, if I'm not supporting Jeremy I am both of those

:40:05. > :40:09.thing and all of the PLP members are both those things, and we are not.

:40:10. > :40:14.You must acknowledge that, Mr Corbyn, if people are not supporting

:40:15. > :40:19.you, they feel castigated as conspiracy theorists or not pure

:40:20. > :40:22.enough, as Owen Smith says? Well, in my experience there has always been

:40:23. > :40:29.huge levels of debate within the Labour Party. But the atmosphere has

:40:30. > :40:33.become toxic? Well, how do you know? I attend large numbers of labour

:40:34. > :40:37.events all over the country, at the moment we are doing a leadership

:40:38. > :40:41.campaign, for that I attended large number of events where there were

:40:42. > :40:44.people of all shades of opinion having an intelligent, respectful

:40:45. > :40:49.discussion and debate, and that is how you should do things at all

:40:50. > :40:58.times. People here, do you think the atmosphere has become toxic? Yes. Do

:40:59. > :41:01.you know why that is, though? My name is Chris, I returned to the

:41:02. > :41:06.Labour Party because of Mr Corbyn, I went to the Green party during the

:41:07. > :41:13.Blair years due to the fact they were relating on so many manifesto

:41:14. > :41:16.promises. NHS, Iraq war. You mentioned a poignant words to me

:41:17. > :41:22.when we talk about policy, narrative. How is narrative built?

:41:23. > :41:25.How do we construct perceptions, and how are these perceptions

:41:26. > :41:31.orchestrated or developed? Largely through the media. Before Jeremy

:41:32. > :41:34.Corbyn was even elected he was being brandished as unelectable, this

:41:35. > :41:37.dangerous left-wing rogue, he rebelled against his government so

:41:38. > :41:40.many times, without looking at the detail of what he rebelled against.

:41:41. > :41:46.He rebelled against principled things, chiefly the Iraq war. I

:41:47. > :41:52.remember him talking in 2003 about the Iraq war, and how are these

:41:53. > :41:55.narrative is being formed? This man is the embodiment of so many

:41:56. > :42:00.principles which expose so many other MPs within the Parliamentary

:42:01. > :42:03.Labour Party, we can look at people voting records online. Owen Smith

:42:04. > :42:10.has a very credible voting record and I agree with a lot of his

:42:11. > :42:16.positions. And this lady who suffered abuse in Derby, Twitter

:42:17. > :42:21.lends itself to an incredible amount of saturation. I am getting

:42:22. > :42:24.passionate just talking about it, but people are passionate and lose

:42:25. > :42:30.sight of what the discussion is. Sessions get the -based into

:42:31. > :42:33.narratives and sound bites. For our audience across the UK, I want to

:42:34. > :42:39.bring them a film which talks about the history of this toxic

:42:40. > :42:44.environment which I know you say is not necessarily accurate, that lets

:42:45. > :42:49.look at some of the facts in the last 12 months or so. There has been

:42:50. > :42:54.a report into anti-Semitism, there have been allegations from various

:42:55. > :43:00.female Labour MPs, as our guest over here mentioned. These are the facts.

:43:01. > :43:08.When does Democratic debates stopped and intimidation begin? Allegations

:43:09. > :43:12.of abuse in Labour really started with the Syrian war vote, around a

:43:13. > :43:18.court of the party MPs voted against the leadership and four air strikes.

:43:19. > :43:22.A number of online threats were made against those MPs. Senior party

:43:23. > :43:26.figures called for the abuse to stop. I'm asking what your reader

:43:27. > :43:30.should do about the bullying of your colleagues? A firm line needs to be

:43:31. > :43:35.taken, a code of conduct around social media, there cannot be abuse.

:43:36. > :43:43.Some threats were blamed on activists linked to momentum. There

:43:44. > :43:50.was talk of unsupportive MPs being sacked or be selected if they did

:43:51. > :43:52.not fall into line. Momentum insisted it was not organising

:43:53. > :43:57.deselection is an strongly disapproved of brilliant. You are

:43:58. > :44:02.rewriting history. Allegations of a different kind of abuse in Labour,

:44:03. > :44:07.this time Ken Livingstone and Labour MP Naz Shah were both suspended

:44:08. > :44:09.after claims comments they made were anti-Semitic, or anti-Jewish. An

:44:10. > :44:15.independent enquiry was launched into racism in Labour. Why are you

:44:16. > :44:19.continuing to hold on? Then it became clear that Jeremy Corbyn

:44:20. > :44:22.would face a leadership challenge. A brick was thrown through the window

:44:23. > :44:31.of the constituency office of his early rival Angela Eagle. Is it true

:44:32. > :44:35.you have had death threats? The police are looking into it. More

:44:36. > :44:39.than 40 Labour MPs signed a letter relating to rape and death threats.

:44:40. > :44:43.Owen Smith said not enough was being done to clamp down on misogyny. Has

:44:44. > :44:47.he encouraged it? I don't know but I think he has not been strong enough.

:44:48. > :44:52.He has genuinely not understood what a grave problem this is. It is

:44:53. > :44:57.acclaimed Jeremy Corbyn and firmly denies. He points out that he has

:44:58. > :45:00.also been the subject of much abuse and adds that there should be

:45:01. > :45:03.dignity even when there is disagreement. Where there are

:45:04. > :45:06.disagreements in our party we settle them through democratic means. No

:45:07. > :45:21.coups, no intimidation, no abuse. So those are some of the facts, much

:45:22. > :45:23.more from the audience, could just ask you Mr Corbyn about the report

:45:24. > :45:43.into anti-Semitism. June 30 we would get one nomination,

:45:44. > :45:48.I thought somebody with her record as a human rights lawyer, would make

:45:49. > :45:52.an enormous contribution to the House of Lords. I think everybody

:45:53. > :45:57.should welcome that. She is somebody of enormous talent and was general

:45:58. > :46:07.secretary of Liberty for a long time. On the day David Cameron

:46:08. > :46:12.resigned, you offered it to her, would she say? Shouldn't she was

:46:13. > :46:18.pleased to accept it and would work hard and take the Labour whip. Do

:46:19. > :46:21.you accept the acquisition of bias, you asked her to carry out the

:46:22. > :46:24.report, she joined the party, is carried out the report which said

:46:25. > :46:27.there wasn't widespread anti-Semitism within the labour

:46:28. > :46:32.movement, then you offered her the peerage. Anybody who knows Shami

:46:33. > :46:36.Chakrabarti would know she's a person of the most incredible

:46:37. > :46:42.intellectual rigour... Can I finish? Rigour and and she used a report,

:46:43. > :46:45.she met a very large number of people, she produced a report which

:46:46. > :46:50.has proposed a series of rule changes and a process of educational

:46:51. > :46:55.involvement within the party which was well received by the entirety of

:46:56. > :47:00.the National executive of the party. And you accept that the sequence of

:47:01. > :47:04.events leads some to see there is a perception of bias? I hope maybe

:47:05. > :47:08.would do that, they will recognise her as somebody of great value and

:47:09. > :47:12.strength to our society assembly will stand up for human rights and

:47:13. > :47:21.the liberty of everybody in this country. -- as somebody who will

:47:22. > :47:27.stand up. My name is Jane, I'm a young Labour member, with just 4% of

:47:28. > :47:30.the Jewish labour movement voting for you, Jeremy, if you become

:47:31. > :47:34.elected as leader again, what policies will you put in place to

:47:35. > :47:38.make them feel included in the Labour Party? I will meet the Jewish

:47:39. > :47:45.labour movement as indeed I have met many other Jewish organisations, who

:47:46. > :47:48.have given me a lot of very helpful advice. I have had meetings with the

:47:49. > :47:51.board of the parties and others and will continue that dialogue and

:47:52. > :47:57.inclusion with, because the history of the whole Jewish community, the

:47:58. > :48:02.abominable way they have been treated hysterically, but also the

:48:03. > :48:09.huge radical tradition of the Jewish community, many great causes, I will

:48:10. > :48:14.be jacked up in the same way I want to reach out all communities. It it

:48:15. > :48:19.still a big issue despite the report? I have friends who joined

:48:20. > :48:22.the Labour Party the day after we lost the election, those friends

:48:23. > :48:27.resigned the day that you became leader and they are Jewish friends

:48:28. > :48:30.of mine. Getting them back on board, we are struggling, because they just

:48:31. > :48:34.don't believe this is a safe party for them to be a part of. And if

:48:35. > :48:41.Owen Smith was elected, would they rejoin? They would consider it.

:48:42. > :48:45.Anti-Semitism in the labour movement. The report was carried out

:48:46. > :48:49.by Shami Chakrabarti, some said it was a whitewash, others warmly

:48:50. > :48:51.received and said the recommendations she put out there

:48:52. > :48:58.should help alleviate this, what do you think? I have met with a couple

:48:59. > :49:02.of repairs and tips of the Jewish community and the Jewish labour

:49:03. > :49:09.community, and I think the proof of the report is they don't think it is

:49:10. > :49:11.adequate. -- a couple of representatives. They think it

:49:12. > :49:15.doesn't acknowledge the extent of the problem, and that is one of the

:49:16. > :49:18.reasons they have lost faith in Jeremy. They did nominate me this

:49:19. > :49:24.week and I'm proud they have done that. There was a great big sigh

:49:25. > :49:29.from somebody over here, I am not sure why. I don't know why either,

:49:30. > :49:34.did anybody should be saying about something as important as Labour

:49:35. > :49:46.appealing to one of the communities that has traditionally supported us.

:49:47. > :49:54.The Tories, about 8% of the... We should all be concerned about that.

:49:55. > :50:01.I am a trade unionist, an elected member of my national indicative

:50:02. > :50:05.committee, my union are cooked Alli supporting Jeremy in this. I want to

:50:06. > :50:11.bring back the emphasis of Labour history but also about being an

:50:12. > :50:15.elected member. As far as I'm concerned the Labour Party and

:50:16. > :50:18.myself believe that the core of things is democracy. For me, Jeremy

:50:19. > :50:24.is elected as our leader for the Labour Party. Some people might not

:50:25. > :50:29.like that, the PLP and those MPs are elected by members to be the voice

:50:30. > :50:34.of those members in the parliamentary arena. At the end of

:50:35. > :50:42.the day, I have also seen, for example, Owen, you have said on

:50:43. > :50:45.previous debates that regarding the EU referendum, that you would hold a

:50:46. > :50:55.second one. I disagreed with the result, I was on the doorstep with

:50:56. > :51:01.other Labour MPs campaigning for a Remain vote, but that is democracy

:51:02. > :51:05.at the end of the day. Can I ask you what you feel about the fact this

:51:06. > :51:08.contest is even taking place? I think it is disgraceful and

:51:09. > :51:12.disappointing that the voice of the members of not being heard. Those

:51:13. > :51:19.MPs are there to represent us as ordinary members, not for their own

:51:20. > :51:27.views or careers. You are doing it to further your own career? I am a

:51:28. > :51:30.trade unionist myself. I am with trade unions that are related to the

:51:31. > :51:34.Labour Party and that is important to point out. The other thing I

:51:35. > :51:37.would say is Jeremy used to believe that we should have an election to

:51:38. > :51:45.the leadership of the Labour Party every year. He said so many times in

:51:46. > :51:48.the past. Why is he no worries, or are his supporters worried about

:51:49. > :51:58.their being a challenge? It is not a challenge. Crucially, I am elected

:51:59. > :52:02.by my constituents in Pontypridd. That is the Labour manifesto on

:52:03. > :52:07.which I stood, much of which Jeremy did support, I'm also here to

:52:08. > :52:13.represent my people in Pontypridd and I am very worried that my people

:52:14. > :52:18.in Pontypridd will not have a Labour government in Westminster to support

:52:19. > :52:23.them and the Welsh Labour government with Jeremy as leader. Remember, we

:52:24. > :52:26.have a third of the audience who support Owen Smith, third to support

:52:27. > :52:34.Jeremy Corbyn and this group here who don't yet know. They may choose

:52:35. > :52:38.neither in the end. I allowed yes or no, thinks Owen Smith as leader,

:52:39. > :52:44.when a general election against Theresa May. -- a loud yes or no.

:52:45. > :52:51.What about Jeremy Corbyn, could he do that? The most important people

:52:52. > :53:02.didn't really say anything. This is what you call shouting democracy! In

:53:03. > :53:06.all its many forms. This can of it, there are people who adore you, Mr

:53:07. > :53:11.Corbyn, think you could win a general election, people who respect

:53:12. > :53:17.you don't think you could win a general election because you can't

:53:18. > :53:23.draw in the... What is it? Tens of millions who vote in a general

:53:24. > :53:30.election. Those people have never been to a valley. I think we can

:53:31. > :53:35.appeal to a younger generation, of the advantages of a Labour

:53:36. > :53:38.government that would support them in education, would support them in

:53:39. > :53:43.housing, would support them in training and apprenticeships. I

:53:44. > :53:46.think we can also appeal to an older generation who are worried about the

:53:47. > :53:49.future of the National Health Service and worried about the future

:53:50. > :53:53.of this country, when we have a government that is progressively

:53:54. > :53:59.deindustrialisation of reducing the strength of our economy. And the

:54:00. > :54:05.triple lock on pensions, is that something you would back? I would

:54:06. > :54:11.want to keep that and also to the issue of women being short-changed

:54:12. > :54:15.by the increase in retirement age and have proper transitional

:54:16. > :54:18.payments. I have looked at the 50 polls that have been done since the

:54:19. > :54:23.beginning of this year, Internet polls, in 45 of them, the

:54:24. > :54:34.Conservatives are ahead of you, sometimes by as much as 14 points.

:54:35. > :54:39.Listen. When this is over, this party has got to get together, take

:54:40. > :54:48.on the Tories on housing, education, health, and we can do that.

:54:49. > :54:54.Because I think that is at the heart of this, most people can see there

:54:55. > :54:59.isn't a huge difference between me and Jeremy on all sorts of policies.

:55:00. > :55:04.There really isn't. We should be spending more money on the NHS,

:55:05. > :55:10.building housing. You disagree on Trident and on Europe. I think which

:55:11. > :55:17.still should be fighting to stay in the European Union. But Jeremy can't

:55:18. > :55:23.escape the reality that we are at 28% in the polls, the lowest we have

:55:24. > :55:27.been since 1982. At this trajectory, we will be at 22% at the next

:55:28. > :55:31.election and that would decimate the Labour Party, and without winning an

:55:32. > :55:33.election, all of the things he and I want to do to improve this country

:55:34. > :55:52.will be for naught. As you know, I came to see you try

:55:53. > :55:56.to sort this out. You came to see me and said he would come to support

:55:57. > :56:01.me... You offered me a job that didn't exist, that I would be

:56:02. > :56:13.opposed to and then resigned, it was strange. The truth is, we are and

:56:14. > :56:17.incredible low ebb at the moment, and our communities, we can't afford

:56:18. > :56:21.to sit through, as I sat through in my youth, 18 years of the Tories.

:56:22. > :56:25.How much do you accept responsibility for the low ebb? I

:56:26. > :56:32.think we have been incredibly weak as an opposition. I think all of us

:56:33. > :56:41.in the Labour Party need to accept I am asking about you personally.

:56:42. > :56:44.Three things Jeremy loves to talk about, the PLP victory over the

:56:45. > :56:54.Tories on disabled benefits, I want that for the Labour Party. No, we

:56:55. > :56:59.won that. No, we want that. Jeremy, I had one meeting with you in nine

:57:00. > :57:06.months about those issues. So if you were helping me, it wasn't obvious.

:57:07. > :57:11.Tax credits, PIP, getting rid of Iain Duncan Smith... How much are

:57:12. > :57:18.you personally responsible for the crisis the party found itself in

:57:19. > :57:27.now, on a scale of note to 100? Let's say three. We were behind in

:57:28. > :57:30.85% of the polls. And the same question to you. How much they

:57:31. > :57:34.believe you are responsible for the crisis in the Labour Party were now

:57:35. > :57:39.on that scale? Owen Smith says he is 3% responsible. I'm not good

:57:40. > :57:47.stopping figures on it, I have done my best to reach out is of the PLP,

:57:48. > :57:54.the green paper together, Owen is quite right, we did defeat the

:57:55. > :57:57.government on PIP, forced academise assertion, I say we because every

:57:58. > :58:02.Labour member and the bolted together on that, and Labour numbers

:58:03. > :58:06.of voters together on that. Could I reach out more, I will do my best to

:58:07. > :58:11.reach out as far as I can. But it is a two-way, reciprocal process.

:58:12. > :58:17.Please could you answer the question. I don't think it is

:58:18. > :58:26.possible to put graded figures on this, can we discuss policies? We're

:58:27. > :58:29.going to talk about policies in the next hour of the programme posted by

:58:30. > :58:36.will give you one more opportunity to answer that. I will reach out to

:58:37. > :58:40.people as I have in the past. I want the party members they used to be

:58:41. > :58:46.represented. Do you think you have done a lot of reaching out, do you

:58:47. > :58:52.think it works? It can work on certain occasions. Give me an

:58:53. > :58:58.example. When you have become United. I have worked very well with

:58:59. > :59:05.Andy Burnham since it became Shadow Home Secretary. I have been very

:59:06. > :59:08.happy to work with Owen on the issues he was for responsible for,

:59:09. > :59:15.with John McDonnell on the issues he is responsible for. So yes, it is a

:59:16. > :59:22.broad church, of course it is, it has always been. I am from

:59:23. > :59:25.Loughborough, I am a Unison steward and I work for children in care. I

:59:26. > :59:31.have been a member of the Labour Party for 35 years and my dad was a

:59:32. > :59:34.member, he is a member and my mum is. I am passionate about the Labour

:59:35. > :59:40.Party, I love it and what it stands for, the legacy of things we have

:59:41. > :59:43.created, the welfare state, conference of schooling, the NHS, we

:59:44. > :59:49.should be immensely proud of that and it breaks my heart to see what

:59:50. > :59:52.the party currently is, we have spent this programme are going

:59:53. > :59:56.amongst ourselves about what the party should be doing and we have

:59:57. > :59:59.this devastating Tory government that is affecting and crippling the

:00:00. > :00:08.lives of the people we should be representing. I would be insisted,

:00:09. > :00:11.to rethink either could be a Labour Party Prime Minister, whether Jeremy

:00:12. > :00:16.believes he can genuinely believe an election. We saw a video earlier the

:00:17. > :00:20.last election, and the announcement that the Tories had one in every

:00:21. > :00:24.time I see that, it breaks my heart. I don't want to see that again. We

:00:25. > :00:26.can't afford that as a country and the people hit by austerity cannot

:00:27. > :00:39.afford that again. Good morning. I am Sarah. I work for

:00:40. > :00:45.the Royal College of Nursing. The state of the Labour Party, it is in

:00:46. > :00:48.the name, party. If you have a leader, it is the responsibility of

:00:49. > :00:57.the rest of the party to get behind that leader. This is not the time to

:00:58. > :01:02.break apart the Labour Party. Leader Mr classic opportunity to pounce on

:01:03. > :01:12.the Tory party when they were in disarray over Brexit. This debate

:01:13. > :01:19.should have been the line. -- been away down the line. My name is

:01:20. > :01:23.Adrian. I am a Labour supporter and proud. But I am getting disappointed

:01:24. > :01:28.and disillusioned with the infighting. I feel like it is

:01:29. > :01:36.damaging the Labour brand. It is making is unelectable. We need to

:01:37. > :01:41.get our act together and be united. I really hope that can happen. What

:01:42. > :01:48.will it take? It will have to happen after the leadership. If it doesn't,

:01:49. > :01:55.we are in big, big trouble. My name is Rachel. I rejoined the Labour

:01:56. > :02:00.Party when Ed MIliband became leader. I thought we had moved back

:02:01. > :02:04.to our core values to protect working People's rights. And was

:02:05. > :02:09.very disappointed in Ed Miliband. I was pleased when Jeremy was elected.

:02:10. > :02:16.This situation now is very depressing. It is so divisive. I am

:02:17. > :02:24.getting abuse and people who support Jeremy Corbyn are getting abuse.

:02:25. > :02:29.They're putting pictures of Chairman Mao and Stalin on the backdrop. It

:02:30. > :02:34.is on both sides. The chair of my local branch is doing that. When I

:02:35. > :02:37.go to my local branch meeting in September, it will be awkward

:02:38. > :02:42.because I feel there is a huge division and I don't feel respect is

:02:43. > :02:48.being made by the Owen Smith supporters and I feel like the

:02:49. > :02:53.debate is getting more and more depressing and puerile. We must talk

:02:54. > :03:03.about the issues. Winnie to talk about why people didn't vote for

:03:04. > :03:10.Labour. I believe people voted for Ukip because we have abandoned our

:03:11. > :03:14.traditional values. The champagne politics of Blair have taken over. I

:03:15. > :03:23.left the Labour Party under Tony Blair. I was very depressed. When Ed

:03:24. > :03:28.Miliband took over, I thought great. And now I am depressed because I

:03:29. > :03:37.think that ever happens, MPs have created a divisive atmosphere. We

:03:38. > :03:42.have another hour of conversation to come. We will be joined by listeners

:03:43. > :03:50.on Radio 5 Live as well. It's Wednesday, it's 10am,

:03:51. > :03:55.I'm Victoria Derbyshire. Welcome to the programme,

:03:56. > :04:07.today we're live in Nottingham. Plenty more debate

:04:08. > :04:26.between Mr Corbyn, Mr Smith We need to get ready for government.

:04:27. > :04:31.I think that means to change the leader and be more credible across

:04:32. > :04:36.the country. Still radical. But speak more directly to the country.

:04:37. > :04:40.If elected again, I will try and reach out to all members of the PLP

:04:41. > :04:45.and invite them to get on board. There are an awful lot of issues we

:04:46. > :04:48.can agree on and we can take the fight to the Tories. That really is

:04:49. > :05:00.what Labour members and millions of other voters want us to do. Our

:05:01. > :05:03.audience here are 120 Labour supporters, Labour members and those

:05:04. > :05:08.who would consider voting Labour in the future. They have told us they

:05:09. > :05:23.are concerned that the nature of the debate has become uncomfortable.

:05:24. > :05:31.The two contenders have clashed about the levels and direction of

:05:32. > :05:38.abuse within the party. Some people seem to feel you are the socialist

:05:39. > :05:44.in the Labour Party. Some people feel you are the only Guardian of

:05:45. > :05:52.our values. The truth is, I am not a red Tory. I am not a playwright, I

:05:53. > :05:57.am a socialist, same as you. Again, they laugh. I have never considered

:05:58. > :06:02.myself Blairite. I have always considered myself a socialist. Can

:06:03. > :06:08.we agree we want is party to be inclusive, open and welcoming, but

:06:09. > :06:24.doesn't tolerate foul language racism in any form. Good morning. I

:06:25. > :06:28.am Victoria Derbyshire. We live in Nottingham today. We have been

:06:29. > :06:35.debating with the two men who want to run the Labour Party. Jeremy

:06:36. > :06:38.Corbyn and Owen Smith. Year with an audience of 120 Labour supporters,

:06:39. > :06:42.Labour members and people who would consider voting Labour in the

:06:43. > :06:46.future. A lot of the conversation in the last half hour particularly has

:06:47. > :06:50.been about Labour members so upset about the state of their party,

:06:51. > :06:54.Labour members have recently joined who believe they have entered a

:06:55. > :07:18.toxic environment and they don't like that feeling.

:07:19. > :07:22.There has been some emotion and a lot of passion. In the next hour, we

:07:23. > :07:24.want to talk about the kind of promises Owen Smith and Jeremy

:07:25. > :07:27.Corbyn are making to their supporters in order to get elected

:07:28. > :07:30.as leader. Can we also say hello and good morning to listeners from BBC

:07:31. > :07:32.Radio Five Live who join us right now. As I said, in the last

:07:33. > :07:35.half-hour, we have heard lots of conversation. We will ask both men

:07:36. > :07:37.to set out their policies in a second. We have already talked about

:07:38. > :07:40.Labour and the potential problem of nastiness and general abuse to

:07:41. > :07:49.anyone who might disagree with the Labour leadership. But first, our

:07:50. > :07:59.audience in Nottingham have been split up into groups. Over here,

:08:00. > :08:09.people who support Jeremy Corbyn. Over here, people who support Owen

:08:10. > :08:13.Smith. And over here, people who have not yet made up their mind and

:08:14. > :08:19.me in the end choose neither of the two men here today. What about those

:08:20. > :08:28.parts of the electorate they will need to attract if the are to stand

:08:29. > :08:35.any chance of winning an election. This is Croydon Central. Currently

:08:36. > :08:39.held by a conservative by just 165 votes. So the Labour Party knows it

:08:40. > :08:45.needs to win here if it is going to win the general election. It is

:08:46. > :08:49.third on their target list. But what does the target audience make of

:08:50. > :08:59.these two? Do you know who this gentleman is? He is an MP. I don't

:09:00. > :09:09.know his name. He is the Labour leader at the moment. Am not too

:09:10. > :09:14.sure who he is. Who is he? What has he done? He hasn't got any history

:09:15. > :09:21.of supporting labour cause is. Jeremy has been supporting causes

:09:22. > :09:31.since the 1970s. That is the man. What you think of this man? Samac I

:09:32. > :09:39.wouldn't have him in my government. He is at Trotsky. Total Trotsky. He

:09:40. > :09:53.is a wrong one and he is a wrong one. He should step down. Why is he

:09:54. > :10:01.a good Labour Leader? He hasn't changed his views in terms of social

:10:02. > :10:15.mobility. Housing. He has been very consistent. I hope he gets it

:10:16. > :10:21.because Labour want one for a hundred years. I really hope he gets

:10:22. > :10:34.voted in. Saw the Conservatives went? Yes. There we go. Not that

:10:35. > :10:38.many recognised you, Owen Smith. Here is an opportunity for our

:10:39. > :10:45.audience across the country to get to know you better. Short and

:10:46. > :10:55.concise answers, please. Owen Smith, what is worse, being described as a

:10:56. > :11:03.Tory or a smarmy nonentity slaved in ambition, that was from your former

:11:04. > :11:12.boss. Described as a Tory. Who's your favourite conservative

:11:13. > :11:18.politician? Don't have any. When was the last time he got angry? 20

:11:19. > :11:22.minutes ago because we are debating the future of the Labour Party which

:11:23. > :11:30.is at a low ebb. People in this country can't afford not to be a

:11:31. > :11:47.Labour government. How much is petrol? ?1 not far out. I have some

:11:48. > :11:51.photographs. Pop quiz Time. It is. For radio listeners, I will tell you

:11:52. > :12:01.the answers in a second. Can you name who is in this photograph?

:12:02. > :12:07.Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber. I like singing she kept on karaoke.

:12:08. > :12:16.How many medals has Jason Kelly achieved over his entire cycling

:12:17. > :12:28.career? Loads. Seven. Don't know. Six. What was the Wales against

:12:29. > :12:41.Belgium score? 3-0. I was in the pub and I had had a few. I know we won

:12:42. > :12:47.and I celebrated with gusto. 3-1. What is Jeremy Corbyn's best

:12:48. > :12:52.quality? He has a nice line in cream suits. Here's a great man with

:12:53. > :13:04.principles but I don't think he is a leader. At the moment, he is leading

:13:05. > :13:10.us to a loss. Would you serve in his Shadow Cabinet if he wins and

:13:11. > :13:18.invites you into it? I am someone with integrity. I have lost faith in

:13:19. > :13:26.his ability to lead as. I would serve on the backbenches. Hundreds

:13:27. > :13:33.of times he voted against as. 455 times on all sorts of issues. I will

:13:34. > :13:39.always be Labour. Jeremy Corbyn, what do you prefer, Blairism or

:13:40. > :13:52.Trotskyism? I would have to say neither. Can you name the three

:13:53. > :13:57.things that you admire about Tony Blair? The fact he took through the

:13:58. > :14:02.whole Northern Ireland peace process with great determination. He did

:14:03. > :14:07.that extremely well. The fact he supported the National Minimum Wage.

:14:08. > :14:17.And the fact his government brought in the Human Rights Act and paved

:14:18. > :14:24.the way for workers' rights. Would you call yourself a feminist? Yes.

:14:25. > :14:30.When was the last time you cried and what was it about? Can't remember,

:14:31. > :14:37.so I don't know what it was about. I don't do a lot of crying. How much

:14:38. > :14:50.does a first-class stamp cost? 50p. 65? I'm holding up a picture of two

:14:51. > :14:58.young men. I think they have just reached 40. Do you know who these

:14:59. > :15:05.two men are and which one is which? I will give you a clue. They are

:15:06. > :15:11.Geordie TV presenters. They are Geordie TV presenters. Now, I don't

:15:12. > :15:20.know. I cannot name them. I am really sorry. That is ant and deck.

:15:21. > :15:29.They are Labour supporters. I know. Be sent an e-mail of support. I will

:15:30. > :15:30.apologise humbly to Ant and Dec. I do apologies, it's all right.

:15:31. > :15:45.Goodness me. How many Olympic golds has Sir

:15:46. > :15:56.Bradley Wiggins achieved so far? 15, I think, altogether. Gold. Ten.

:15:57. > :16:06.Lola. You tweeted it was eight and it was deleted. Deleted by whom? Has

:16:07. > :16:13.my Twitter account and hack into? Let's go for eight. You tweeted on

:16:14. > :16:21.Friday, congratulations to Bradley for his eighth gold medal, it's not

:16:22. > :16:28.eight, its... It is still a great achievement. What is the best thing

:16:29. > :16:33.about Owen Smith? He's passionate and direct and he gets very excited.

:16:34. > :16:39.I have seen you get excited, what's wrong with that? What is the worst

:16:40. > :16:47.thing about Owen Smith. That he resigned from the Shadow Cabinet,

:16:48. > :16:50.and he should come back. So if you win, you will extend an invitation

:16:51. > :16:55.to him to come back to the Shadow Cabinet even though he has said he's

:16:56. > :17:04.not going to. People change. Would you serve in his Cabinet if he won?

:17:05. > :17:12.If he invites me, but he might want to think about that. I understand.

:17:13. > :17:17.Jeremy asked that last week and I said last week as I have said on two

:17:18. > :17:21.occasions, yes I would want Jeremy in the Shadow Cabinet. But he

:17:22. > :17:29.definitely don't want to be president. Because the position

:17:30. > :17:37.doesn't exist! And leader can propose, the party can decide.

:17:38. > :17:47.We do have a chairman, we could elevate that role, as we have in the

:17:48. > :17:51.past. Harold Lasky. What do you think about what you have heard from

:17:52. > :18:00.these gentlemen? Quick thoughts before talk about policies. Jeremy

:18:01. > :18:03.keeps saying... My name is leaving, I have come from Yorkshire to be on

:18:04. > :18:08.the show. I just wanted to say Jeremy has mentioned that Owen

:18:09. > :18:13.Menard asking to be part of the Shadow Cabinet, what was the

:18:14. > :18:21.rationale behind that? He has asked me so the question is answered. I

:18:22. > :18:26.suppose so, sorry. Quick thoughts. As an Labour Party, when we talk

:18:27. > :18:31.about policies which unite us, it's fantastic, and we should do that

:18:32. > :18:34.more, and do it more in the media as well, instead of just being seen as

:18:35. > :18:39.bickering all the time, which clearly you guys here today are not.

:18:40. > :18:45.Quick thoughts before we talk about policies. Trust and confidence in me

:18:46. > :18:50.to be maintained and there needs to be unity and feel that on the first

:18:51. > :18:54.hurdle, by resigning, by going against Mr Corbyn with the other PLP

:18:55. > :18:58.members, that trust and confidence has been severely damaged, how can

:18:59. > :19:04.we ever get behind somebody else when they have stabbed somebody in

:19:05. > :19:10.the back, and I think this culture, we want somebody who is honest and

:19:11. > :19:13.sticks to his principles stop when I first heard about Mr Corbyn when I

:19:14. > :19:17.joined the Labour Party last year, I looked at his record and thought,

:19:18. > :19:25.this guy has stuck with his message, 15 of those who are bigger, looking

:19:26. > :19:31.to build this country into a gradation -- lifting up those who

:19:32. > :19:40.are weaker. Review, I think a lot of public regressions and celebrity

:19:41. > :19:45.culture. -- with you. He is not a bad man because he recognised Taylor

:19:46. > :19:53.Swift and Justin Bieber. He's bubbly and very decent man. But a

:19:54. > :19:57.backstabber! By the act of resigning. What other conclusion can

:19:58. > :20:00.I come up with when I see somebody resigning from somebody who has been

:20:01. > :20:06.elected by the members of the Labour Party, I am a new member and I feel

:20:07. > :20:13.criminalised by this process. Simply because of the... We do not run

:20:14. > :20:23.away... Answer the point about being a backstabber. Tell him, not me. I

:20:24. > :20:25.feel I am elected by my constituency in Pontypridd and I think it would

:20:26. > :20:31.be letting them down if I didn't speak out at a point at which the

:20:32. > :20:34.Labour Party was being led toward irrelevance. I think we have lost a

:20:35. > :20:39.huge degree of credibility, I don't think people are looking to the

:20:40. > :20:43.Labour Party now as an alternative government, the evidence is the fact

:20:44. > :20:46.we have been behind in over 100 polls, Jeremy isn't the only person

:20:47. > :20:51.who wants to make Britain great will deliver our values in power, we all

:20:52. > :20:54.want that in the Labour Party but to do it, we have to be in power and

:20:55. > :20:58.the principled reason I have resigned from the Shadow Cabinet is

:20:59. > :21:10.a don't believe Jeremy Campbell wind power for us. -- can wind power for

:21:11. > :21:17.us. We are going to talk about policies now. We have talked about

:21:18. > :21:23.the current state of the Labour Party. What do the two men stand

:21:24. > :21:26.for? The recent Jeremy Corbyn says he ran in his first leadership

:21:27. > :21:30.contest was to increase the choice party members had in who should

:21:31. > :21:38.represent them. This time however, first boating only have a choice of

:21:39. > :21:41.two and their policies are similar. Owen Smith want to abolish zero

:21:42. > :21:46.hours contracts. Jeremy Corbyn does, too. Jeremy Corbyn wants to scrap

:21:47. > :21:53.the government Veritas trades union act and so this Owen Smith. Both

:21:54. > :21:58.wanted we nationalise the railways. Both want to see a 100% publicly on

:21:59. > :22:01.the NHS that is free at the point of use, and both with the C major

:22:02. > :22:08.investment in the north of England. They often have the same principles

:22:09. > :22:11.and it's to see first glance what separates them. Jeremy Corbyn says

:22:12. > :22:18.he will guarantee 1 million new homes within four years, Owen Smith

:22:19. > :22:22.has pledged to build a 1.5 million within five years. Mr Smith says he

:22:23. > :22:28.will ensure the billion pound investment in the economy focusing

:22:29. > :22:32.on jobs in the future, Jeremy Corbyn as proposed investing 500 billion to

:22:33. > :22:37.invest in new industries and to pay towards it Jeremy Corbyn wants to

:22:38. > :22:42.reinstate the 50p top rate tax and plans 1% increase in corporation

:22:43. > :22:45.tax. Owen Smith also wants to reintroduce the 50p top rate tax and

:22:46. > :22:52.has proposed a further wealth tax on the top 1% of earners. Both also

:22:53. > :22:55.want to protect the welfare state. Owen Smith want to scrap the

:22:56. > :23:01.Department for Work and Pensions, and Jeremy Corbyn says he would

:23:02. > :23:05.scrap the house benefit tax. On green energy Jeremy Corbyn wants to

:23:06. > :23:09.ensure the UK meets the gold outlined in the climate change act

:23:10. > :23:13.while Owen Smith was to invest in renewable energy. And on foreign

:23:14. > :23:19.policy, Owen Smith says he was against the Iraq war or he wasn't

:23:20. > :23:25.able to vote. Jeremy Corbyn Azores implement the opposed, both voted

:23:26. > :23:32.against air S strikes in Syria. Jeremy Corbyn is permanently opposed

:23:33. > :23:36.to the renewal of Trident and Mr Smith is in favour. Jeremy Corbyn

:23:37. > :23:40.has pledged to punish university commission fees and Owen Smith

:23:41. > :23:44.hasn't set out a policy although he has previously voted against the cap

:23:45. > :23:47.of ?9,000 a year. Owen Smith believes there should be another

:23:48. > :23:54.referendum to approve the government's terms to leave the EU,

:23:55. > :23:56.it remains to be seen whether these differences are enough for Owen

:23:57. > :24:06.Smith to cause a shock. All but one council area here in

:24:07. > :24:10.Nottinghamshire, where we are this month, including the city centre,

:24:11. > :24:15.voted to leave the European Union, from an area where seven out of 11

:24:16. > :24:19.of its MPs are Labour, exactly the kind of area that the new Labour

:24:20. > :24:24.leader, whoever wins, needs to win over and convinced he is an

:24:25. > :24:30.electable. But if you want to spend more on new housing, both want to be

:24:31. > :24:34.nationalised railways, it spent on infrastructure projects, increase

:24:35. > :24:41.some taxes. Your tax increases white paper you're spending plans, though.

:24:42. > :24:45.The tax increases would obviously help but it is investment in the

:24:46. > :24:50.economy, hence the national investment bank which would help to

:24:51. > :24:53.grow the economy, if we improve public transport links, we improve

:24:54. > :24:57.all transport links and particularly access to bus transport for

:24:58. > :25:02.everybody, that becomes a hopeful economic generator. How much do need

:25:03. > :25:07.to grow the economy by pay for all the things you want to do? We need a

:25:08. > :25:15.growth rate that would continue to increase government income... By how

:25:16. > :25:23.much? At the moment the growth rate is very low, 2% at a very least we

:25:24. > :25:31.can achieve. How do you make up the shortfall? Some of it would be done

:25:32. > :25:36.from burrowing through investment, it is much more efficient to burrow

:25:37. > :25:39.through a national investment government back rather than forcing

:25:40. > :25:42.the debts onto local authorities, hospitals and schools through things

:25:43. > :25:45.like the privately financed initiative or borrowing at a more

:25:46. > :25:53.local level which is much more expensive, we had to invest. What is

:25:54. > :25:56.your plan... For growing the economy, that would pay for the

:25:57. > :26:01.things you want to spend money on, your plan for reducing the 70

:26:02. > :26:06.billion deficit? The growth of the economy and tax income would help to

:26:07. > :26:11.achieve that... Not if you're spending it on infrastructure

:26:12. > :26:18.projects... Universal childcare, etc. They generate growth, childcare

:26:19. > :26:23.generates growth, good education generates growth. The public sector

:26:24. > :26:27.investment is a win all round in the sense that it develops the economy.

:26:28. > :26:30.It'll be a lot of economic growth you will need to pay for all of

:26:31. > :26:36.that, do you acknowledge it is low at the moment although the fastest

:26:37. > :26:41.in the G7? It is, it could go on at faster, we had the lowest level of

:26:42. > :26:45.investment of any G7 country and we are pretty low on the overall list,

:26:46. > :26:50.we have to invest a lot more in order to achieve the economic

:26:51. > :26:54.success we need. Owen Smith, your sums don't add up either, how you

:26:55. > :26:59.get the paper would you are promising your supporters? My sons

:27:00. > :27:05.do add up, Rice said explicitly that I would raise ?13.5 billion worth of

:27:06. > :27:09.extra taxes, through changing the 50p rate, introducing a wealth tax,

:27:10. > :27:14.not cutting inheritance tax, capital gains tax, but in corporation tax

:27:15. > :27:18.back up to 20% and changing the pension tax relief that is ripping

:27:19. > :27:21.off working people and making sure working people get a better deal out

:27:22. > :27:26.of that, although things would raise money and allow me to pay for

:27:27. > :27:32.getting would of the public sector pay freeze, introducing 4% per

:27:33. > :27:37.annum, by the end of the parliament on the NHS, all of the

:27:38. > :27:42.infrastructure spend would come from raising ?200 billion in burrowing,

:27:43. > :27:47.through issuing long dated government gilts, 40 billion a year

:27:48. > :27:56.for five years, not a single economist disagrees about that. It

:27:57. > :27:59.would allow me to invest. If you are doing all that burrowing, if you

:28:00. > :28:04.don't get the massive growth that you hope for, which we haven't had

:28:05. > :28:05.for a few years, you are acknowledging your guide to be

:28:06. > :28:12.burrowing Malcolm the deficit will go up. The thing that should be

:28:13. > :28:17.crucial is growing the economy, can we afford to leave our children with

:28:18. > :28:22.crumbling hospitals,... You are passing on the debt. At the moment

:28:23. > :28:27.we are passing on failing infrastructure and an inability for

:28:28. > :28:29.children to go to university, the row asked us to deal with the

:28:30. > :28:38.problems for older generations. It is crucial we invest. At. We pay for

:28:39. > :28:44.housing benefit which pays for high rent in the products rented sector,

:28:45. > :28:47.if we diverted that money into building lifetime tenancy council

:28:48. > :28:52.houses, investing in housing, you create jobs in construction and the

:28:53. > :28:55.supply chain and give people a quality-of-life didn't get at the

:28:56. > :28:59.moment and give children a security of knowing their home is their own

:29:00. > :29:05.rather than the threat of being moved every six months in the

:29:06. > :29:19.private rented sector. Comments and questions. My question is for Owen.

:29:20. > :29:23.I am a Jeremy Corbyn supporter. I am a passionate Jeremy Corbyn

:29:24. > :29:28.supporter. I left the Labour Party when Tony Blair won his leadership,

:29:29. > :29:40.and I rejoined the day journey one stop that says how it think. -- the

:29:41. > :29:44.day Jeremy one. What were you thinking when they won on this three

:29:45. > :29:51.times that Labour won general elections? In all honesty, he did

:29:52. > :29:58.make a few good things happen, like Jeremy has just said. But he could

:29:59. > :30:05.have done a lot more. What is your point on policy? I am passionate

:30:06. > :30:09.about Trident issue. I'm curious to know if Owen is in favour of the

:30:10. > :30:15.Trident project at a cost of 200 leading or even more, would he be

:30:16. > :30:21.prepared to press that button and possibly kill millions of people? --

:30:22. > :30:22.200 billion. And if so, why does that lie within the morale of the of

:30:23. > :30:34.the Labour Party and our movement? Can you first see, I believe we

:30:35. > :30:42.shouldn't be lung busting the record of the last Labour government. We

:30:43. > :30:46.raised the minimum wage. We trebled funding on the NHS. We made sure we

:30:47. > :30:53.were raising wages in this country. It was a period of economic growth.

:30:54. > :31:00.Cities like Nottingham were transformed. It wasn't Labour

:31:01. > :31:05.spending on schools and hospitals that cause the bankers crash. I am a

:31:06. > :31:11.multilateralist. I want to read the entire world of nuclear weapons. We

:31:12. > :31:16.have a disagreement about how best we do that. UN Jeremy believe we

:31:17. > :31:20.should unilaterally get rid of our weapons and hope everybody else

:31:21. > :31:25.follow suit. My view is that is naive. I used to hold that view and

:31:26. > :31:30.I don't any longer. I believe we should negotiate away our nuclear

:31:31. > :31:36.weapons in order to get rid of everyone's nuclear weapons. If we

:31:37. > :31:39.have a nuclear weapon and a deterrent, of course the leader of

:31:40. > :31:44.the Labour Party and the money won't be Prime Minister has to be prepared

:31:45. > :31:52.to say that he would be prepared to deploy the nuclear deterrent. This

:31:53. > :32:00.speaks to the issue of credibility. The country wants the Labour Party

:32:01. > :32:06.to be serious about this -- the security of our country. The world

:32:07. > :32:12.is dangerous. I think they want a Labour Party that will maintain the

:32:13. > :32:17.security of our country. You famously said he would not press the

:32:18. > :32:24.button. You said you would keep the submarines but there would be no

:32:25. > :32:29.weapon systems on them. They would-be non-nuclear weapons.

:32:30. > :32:34.Security is crucial. Issues around the world are crucial. The use of

:32:35. > :32:39.nuclear weapons is unconscionable by anybody I would've thought. One

:32:40. > :32:45.nuclear explosion anywhere in the world would set off a chain reaction

:32:46. > :32:55.of human and environmental disaster around the globe we agreed with

:32:56. > :33:08.article six we would take steps towards disarmament. Security in the

:33:09. > :33:24.world can be dealt with by respect for human rights, by a process which

:33:25. > :33:41.seeks to bring an agreement across the world. Issues in Syria and Libya

:33:42. > :33:46.cannot have that sort of response. In Syria, would you sit down with

:33:47. > :33:51.President Assad, would you sit down with members of so-called Islamic

:33:52. > :33:55.State? There has to be a political process and there already is being

:33:56. > :34:01.conducted through the Geneva talks. That does involve negotiations with

:34:02. > :34:06.the Assad regime. Also I suspect it brings in some kind of proximity

:34:07. > :34:10.talks or whatever. Owen Smith and I both voted against the bombing of

:34:11. > :34:15.Syria because we couldn't see any credible use of it or value to it

:34:16. > :34:20.because what was then going to happen was a plethora of people

:34:21. > :34:25.opposed to Assad, including the Al-Nusra Front Gage, who were close

:34:26. > :34:30.to Al-Qaeda. We have to support a serious political process and that

:34:31. > :34:38.has to be redoubled. With this process involved anyone from

:34:39. > :34:44.so-called Islamic State? Not around the table, no. I worked on the

:34:45. > :34:52.Northern Ireland peace process for three years. I helped bring to

:34:53. > :34:56.gather the loyalist paramilitaries and the DUP. Ultimately all

:34:57. > :35:00.solutions to these sorts of crises and international crises come about

:35:01. > :35:05.through dialogue. Eventually, if we are to try and solve this, all of

:35:06. > :35:16.the actors still need to be involved. At the

:35:17. > :35:24.moment,... At some point, we will need to get people around the table

:35:25. > :35:30.to solve this. All morning we have had differences. We have not gone on

:35:31. > :35:35.to how we will reconcile those changes. The Trident question is

:35:36. > :35:46.probably the one issue on which that was the greatest Adam but we have to

:35:47. > :35:53.come up with a practical solution. Jeremy Corbyn is likely to win the

:35:54. > :35:59.leadership election. We know that, let's be practical. How will you

:36:00. > :36:08.reconcile the fact there are 172 Labour MPs who do not hold that

:36:09. > :36:15.position? How will you reconcile the official position of the Labour

:36:16. > :36:19.Party that we are a multilateralist, and the countries is a whole

:36:20. > :36:23.believes on that nuclear deterrent? And on that one single issue we may

:36:24. > :36:39.well lose all the other good things the Labour Party could potentially

:36:40. > :36:44.achieve in this country. Thank you for the question. We are undertaking

:36:45. > :36:47.a review of defence policy. The Defence Secretary has it in his

:36:48. > :36:54.hands to present a report which will come together on issues of future

:36:55. > :37:00.defence strategy in all aspects, not just the nuclear aspect. My view is

:37:01. > :37:11.that we should fulfil our obligations under the treaty. We are

:37:12. > :37:16.one of only five declared nuclear weapons states. There are all made

:37:17. > :37:20.three other states that are known to have nuclear weapons. 187 countries

:37:21. > :37:30.don't have them, don't want them and want to live in a nuclear free

:37:31. > :37:35.world. There is a huge movement around the world which says security

:37:36. > :37:40.comes about when you deal with inequality, with injustice, you deal

:37:41. > :37:49.with insecurity and the refugee crisis. What Park could nuclear

:37:50. > :37:53.weapons play in all of that? Good morning. We have a Labour leadership

:37:54. > :38:00.programme this morning featuring Owen Smith and the incumbent Jeremy

:38:01. > :38:06.Corbyn. Some messages before we get more questions. This e-mail from

:38:07. > :38:12.Paul, are Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith the best the Labour Party can

:38:13. > :38:16.do? Neither have credible policies and the Conservatives must be

:38:17. > :38:25.jumping with joy. Another e-mail, Jeremy Corbyn has spent a lot of his

:38:26. > :38:35.parliamentary career voting against the party whip. Why should he expect

:38:36. > :38:41.party members to get behind him? I voted on Iraq, anti-terrorism

:38:42. > :38:45.legislation, student fees, PFI contracts and some other issues. I

:38:46. > :38:51.fulfilled my role as a backbencher during that. I did not indulge in

:38:52. > :38:55.abuse of anybody. I put forward a credible political view that I

:38:56. > :39:02.believed to be one in tune with a lot of opinion of flavour members

:39:03. > :39:10.and Labour supporters. I recognise there is dissent in any big party.

:39:11. > :39:15.You come together on fundamental issues. How we chased down

:39:16. > :39:20.austerity, housing, health and other issues that we have spoken about

:39:21. > :39:30.this morning. I admire anyone who doesn't know and an deck. I am a

:39:31. > :39:33.notably public appointed by the Archbishop of Canterbury. And the

:39:34. > :39:38.passionate Labour supporter. Brexit, David Cameron and yourself, you try

:39:39. > :39:44.to convince the country we should remain in Europe. The man had the

:39:45. > :39:49.decency to stand down. You didn't. Do you take responsibility that we

:39:50. > :40:04.lost by 2% and you're responsible for that? 4%. If we had two more

:40:05. > :40:07.percent, we would have won. Obviously if more people voted to

:40:08. > :40:13.remain we would have won the referendum and I wish we had. Hang

:40:14. > :40:19.on. Two thirds of all Labour supporters voted to remain. Less

:40:20. > :40:28.than one third of supporters voted to remain. The results were very

:40:29. > :40:38.different in different parts of the country. My constituency voted 70%

:40:39. > :40:42.to remain. Do you take responsibility that you were

:40:43. > :40:55.responsible? I did my best in that campaign. I didn't see you on TV

:40:56. > :40:58.once. Mr Corbyn, the point is I followed the arguments for and

:40:59. > :41:06.against passionately. David Cameron, I am a member of the Labour Party

:41:07. > :41:11.and would not be seeing dead voting for the Tories, but David Cameron

:41:12. > :41:18.came across far more passionately than you ever did. Ever did. The

:41:19. > :41:23.point I was making in the referendum campaign are to leave Europe and you

:41:24. > :41:27.lose workers' rights, consumer rights and environmental protection

:41:28. > :41:32.rights. You end up with the danger of losing market access for British

:41:33. > :41:36.manufacturing industry in Europe. I pointed that out. I also pointed out

:41:37. > :41:42.the had to be changes in the European Union, like the rules on

:41:43. > :41:46.state aid, like the attempt to enforce privatisation of Postal

:41:47. > :42:01.Service and real service and the European Union had to be more

:42:02. > :42:05.responsive to the views across Europe. You said those words, but

:42:06. > :42:16.sometimes it felt like he didn't mean them. I have one or two points

:42:17. > :42:23.to say. Can I ask you to make one so we can get more people in? I will

:42:24. > :42:30.try and be as short as I can. Right, I want to talk about the situation

:42:31. > :42:34.with the MPs. Because I believe that every member of the Labour Party has

:42:35. > :42:40.a right to an equal say in who the leader will be and what the policies

:42:41. > :42:46.will be, irrespective of whether they are MPs are not. I want to

:42:47. > :42:51.emphasise the point a million people went out onto the streets, some said

:42:52. > :42:59.2 million at the start of the Iraq war. Those people were right to. All

:43:00. > :43:07.those Labour MPs who voted for the Iraq war were wrong. Doesn't that

:43:08. > :43:12.say something? Doesn't that mean that ordinary members of the Labour

:43:13. > :43:22.Party need to be part of the decision-making process? Not just

:43:23. > :43:30.fodder for elections. Thank you. I am a 19-year-old Labour member and I

:43:31. > :43:33.support Jeremy Corbyn. For a long time, I supported Brexit. I

:43:34. > :43:38.eventually voted remain and that had nothing to do with Alan Johnson and

:43:39. > :43:43.the tone of the Labour campaign. I think Jeremy struck the town

:43:44. > :43:48.correctly. We should stay in and perform. There is lots of

:43:49. > :43:52.overenthusiastic Europhiles who don't understand that many

:43:53. > :43:55.working-class people in our country voted to leave because they felt

:43:56. > :44:01.disconnected with the establishment. That campaign failed to engage with

:44:02. > :44:06.them. Jeremy's town and the town of other people working in the Europe

:44:07. > :44:19.is possible campaign that got me to change my mind. Owen Smith. I don't

:44:20. > :44:23.blame Jeremy for us walking out of Europe. But I do think it is a

:44:24. > :44:28.desperate mistake for our country. All of the things Jeremy and I want

:44:29. > :44:32.to do will be immeasurably harder by being outside the European Union.

:44:33. > :44:36.Look at the results yesterday. The crucial question is now about the

:44:37. > :44:39.future. Now we are walking out of the European Union at some point. I

:44:40. > :44:48.think the question is for Jeremy and for me, what will we do as leader of

:44:49. > :44:51.this party in the event that David Davis and Liam Fox sell down the

:44:52. > :44:56.river our rights in this country, social protections, environmental

:44:57. > :45:01.protections, the NHS. I am clear, we should reject that and put it back

:45:02. > :45:11.to the British people in a second referendum or a general election. If

:45:12. > :45:17.a government crosses red line is, such as environment protection,

:45:18. > :45:27.consumer protection, market access, those things are crucial. The debate

:45:28. > :45:32.is very fundamental. The Tory party is in a discussion about it, let's

:45:33. > :45:38.put it in a polite form. Are we to become a kind of bargain basement,

:45:39. > :45:45.low-wage, deeply unequal island off the shores of Europe... Can I

:45:46. > :45:54.finish? Instead, we need have a high investment economy, we need to have

:45:55. > :45:59.these things enshrined in UK law. Crucially, there has to be access to

:46:00. > :46:04.the European market for British manufacturing. Neither of you have

:46:05. > :46:09.mentioned freedom of movement of people. There were Labour voters in

:46:10. > :46:13.labour heartlands in the North East of England in particular who voted

:46:14. > :46:18.to leave because they are anxious about that. Neither of you seem to

:46:19. > :46:24.have anything to say to those Labour voters.

:46:25. > :46:33.I acknowledge the concerns and the upset. People voted against for lots

:46:34. > :46:38.of reasons. They felt left behind in communities where they had been no

:46:39. > :46:43.investment, they felt high levels of unemployment and they felt they were

:46:44. > :46:47.getting lower wages. They felt disconnected from you because you

:46:48. > :46:54.are pro increasing levels of net migration and they are not. What I'm

:46:55. > :46:57.saying is there has to be investment in those communities so there is a

:46:58. > :47:03.migrant impact on, partly funded by the EU and partly by the government,

:47:04. > :47:07.the Tories abolished that funding, which would help the problems of

:47:08. > :47:11.education, health and so on, where the funding formula is inadequate

:47:12. > :47:17.and it is this government that is destroying the public services in

:47:18. > :47:21.every major city in this country. We've got about 12 when it's left, I

:47:22. > :47:28.will ask people to be as concise as possible if I may. -- 12 minutes

:47:29. > :47:31.left. On our Facebook page, your chance to ask questions about the

:47:32. > :47:41.leadership debate with our political correspondent Chris Mason, who is

:47:42. > :47:50.getting ready now somewhere. Just search for BBC News on Facebook.

:47:51. > :47:56.More from our audience. I am Catherine, and I am 13, I am worried

:47:57. > :47:59.about my future because I want to get college and I want to go to

:48:00. > :48:03.university but I'm going to be stuck with semi-student fees and the

:48:04. > :48:10.reason I am worried is because my mum got free education, but because

:48:11. > :48:12.I will be in debt when I'm older, it'll affect me even more and more

:48:13. > :48:34.opportunities. Tuition fees, would you scrap them?

:48:35. > :48:37.Yes, he said I hadn't laid out a policy, I have, I said I would scrap

:48:38. > :48:41.them and introduce a graduate tax, that is the fairest way I can see

:48:42. > :48:47.the deal with this issue. We have been warning for a long time that

:48:48. > :48:50.this rise to ?9,000, the cap being taken off that will mean fewer and

:48:51. > :48:56.fewer children from working-class backgrounds in this country going to

:48:57. > :49:02.university. That happened two weeks ago. The first time ever, we have

:49:03. > :49:07.seen a reduction from 66, the 62%, so what we have been warning is

:49:08. > :49:10.coming to pass. My eldest is getting his AF 's results, he wants to go to

:49:11. > :49:15.university but they will be people like us around the country wondering

:49:16. > :49:18.whether it is worth racking up 50 grand in debt if you are going to

:49:19. > :49:26.end up with a low-wage, insecure jobs. Take it back slightly, we have

:49:27. > :49:30.to restore the educational maintenance allowance to encourage

:49:31. > :49:36.young people to remain in school. Ensure that every young person gets

:49:37. > :49:38.the option of a good quality, qualification through an

:49:39. > :49:42.apprenticeship or going to university so we have parity of

:49:43. > :49:47.esteem on the levels of qualification and we have to get rid

:49:48. > :49:49.of the iniquity of ?9,000 a year student fees and the loss of

:49:50. > :49:54.maintenance grants which means these massive debts. Other countries don't

:49:55. > :50:01.do it, they value and invest in education. I will pay for it through

:50:02. > :50:08.increase in corporate taxation. That is how you would pay for the... The

:50:09. > :50:11.graduate tax, I think you could end up meaning that because you have a

:50:12. > :50:14.qualification, I would rather attacks because they are wealthy

:50:15. > :50:24.rather than just because of the qualification. -- attacks deliberate

:50:25. > :50:29.a tax. The increasing corporation tax is going to pay for introducing

:50:30. > :50:32.student grants and reintroducing the educational maintenance allowance,

:50:33. > :50:37.how would you pay for tuition fees? They would also be paid for through

:50:38. > :50:42.increases of taxation at that end, at the moment what we're doing is

:50:43. > :50:45.asking students to fund universities rather than the public to fund

:50:46. > :50:50.universities. I would rather move into the other way around. Do you

:50:51. > :50:54.know which tax you would put up for scrapping tuition fees? It would be

:50:55. > :51:04.largely on levels of corporate taxation. I do want to hear from the

:51:05. > :51:09.audience. My name is the owner I am from Kirkby in Ashfield, I have a

:51:10. > :51:15.question on corporate tax. -- the owner. The corporations have been

:51:16. > :51:19.able to avoid, being clever, enabled them not to pay the levels of tax,

:51:20. > :51:23.they have paid large dividends to their shareholders and less

:51:24. > :51:30.corporation tax. How will you actually make them pay tax without

:51:31. > :51:37.them going, we are leaving! We need jobs but we need investment from

:51:38. > :51:44.them. I would say that we have to do country by country reporting, of

:51:45. > :51:48.each big corporation. So they can't shift their supposed income from a

:51:49. > :51:53.high tax environment to a low tax environment, therefore companies

:51:54. > :51:58.that shift their head offices and claim turnover in Switzerland where

:51:59. > :52:04.in the elegy it is paying a low level, tax should be paid on the

:52:05. > :52:11.place you earn the money and make the money, chasing down tax havens

:52:12. > :52:15.that are often in British Overseas Territories, with these convenient

:52:16. > :52:18.badge companies. I simply said to our media constantly put forward

:52:19. > :52:23.this idea that somehow it is clever to avoid tax, it isn't. That is what

:52:24. > :52:34.you don't get ambulances, don't get a Fire Service, don't get hospital.

:52:35. > :52:36.How would you do this? We had to legislate to make sure that

:52:37. > :52:40.companies pay tax on the profits that they own in this country. I

:52:41. > :52:44.don't think it's any more complicated than that. At the moment

:52:45. > :52:49.were heading towards a 17% corporation rate, half that of

:52:50. > :52:53.America, half that of most of our European neighbours. I don't think

:52:54. > :52:56.it would result in flight of business from this country, think

:52:57. > :53:01.businesses in this country benefit massively from having an educated

:53:02. > :53:04.workforce through public finance, having a healthy workforce

:53:05. > :53:09.throughout public NHS, and I think most businesses in this country

:53:10. > :53:14.would be happy to pay a bit more in order to support our country and we

:53:15. > :53:18.should encourage them to do that. I have been a Labour member for about

:53:19. > :53:21.a year and I want to ask you both about the NHS, he best talk about

:53:22. > :53:27.putting a lot of money into the NHS but I want to ask where it's going

:53:28. > :53:29.to go. -- you both talk. I see the mental health services in this

:53:30. > :53:33.country have been content to degraded by the conservative

:53:34. > :53:36.government, they are getting worse and worse, young people having to

:53:37. > :53:41.wait a year for mental health appointment that could be the

:53:42. > :53:47.difference. I want to ask, how would you make it better, if either of you

:53:48. > :53:52.were Prime Minister? I saw this first hand just a few weeks ago when

:53:53. > :53:58.my brother was admitted to an NHS hospital for a week with an issue

:53:59. > :54:04.around mental health, and I saw what an incredible Cinderella service it

:54:05. > :54:10.is. I would invest. I think very simply, we need to invest an extra

:54:11. > :54:15.4% per annum in the NHS, 60 billion, we were in Wales and I was going to

:54:16. > :54:18.a brand-new mental health hospital in Cardiff, built by the Welsh

:54:19. > :54:23.Labour government, because we are still investing in our NHS in Wales.

:54:24. > :54:27.So the evidence is there, we can invest in mental health, my

:54:28. > :54:34.grandmother is in an NHS hospital even as we speak. We need to see

:54:35. > :54:37.whether money is coming from. We do face a mental health crisis in this

:54:38. > :54:43.country one in four bus will face a crisis within their own lifetime, we

:54:44. > :54:45.can either change our language and approach, and attitudes, so that

:54:46. > :54:49.young people don't suffer in silence and they of talking about it and

:54:50. > :54:58.some sadly even take their own lives as a result. -- and fear. Secondly,

:54:59. > :55:00.absolutely, invest in good quality, immediate, talking therapies and

:55:01. > :55:05.support for those going through a crisis. If you're in the midst of a

:55:06. > :55:10.crisis ended go to your GP and say, I'm going through a mental health

:55:11. > :55:15.crisis, a good GP would do something to you immediately, less effective

:55:16. > :55:21.one would put you on a waiting list, see someone in a month or six weeks.

:55:22. > :55:25.It's got to be there and available and immediate. But as a society,

:55:26. > :55:26.recognise where levels of stress come from, poverty, bad wages, bad

:55:27. > :55:41.housing. You have now heard both men speak

:55:42. > :55:44.for the last couple of hours. Our audience here of Labour supporters,

:55:45. > :55:50.members, voters, who say they may vote Labour in future, thank you for

:55:51. > :55:57.your contributions and Europe respect. We have divided you up,

:55:58. > :56:00.this is the section of people who wanted to come along to see if they

:56:01. > :56:03.could make up their mind. If you think you have reached a conclusion

:56:04. > :56:07.and you are now going to support either Owen Smith or the incumbent,

:56:08. > :56:13.Jeremy Corbyn, could ask you to walk to the relevant section right now. I

:56:14. > :56:30.will describe this for listeners on the radio.

:56:31. > :56:39.Most people in the undecided section... Most people in the and

:56:40. > :56:44.decided section have moved and swelled the ranks of the Jeremy

:56:45. > :56:49.Corbyn supporters. Let's hear why. I have always voted Tory until the

:56:50. > :56:56.last election and I think the policies about child mental issues

:56:57. > :57:01.is massive for myself. I just want to hear what people have moved over

:57:02. > :57:07.here. At the beginning Owen Smith was concerned about his children's

:57:08. > :57:09.GCSE results and he has got an amazing CV but Jeremy Corbyn is

:57:10. > :57:18.concerned about campaigning for everybody in the community. Even

:57:19. > :57:27.though I agree with Owen Smith... About Brexit. I have been really

:57:28. > :57:32.impressed by both candidates in this debate. Both have a lot to offer.

:57:33. > :57:35.It's one thing about leading a movement and a campaign and leading

:57:36. > :57:39.a party or an nation, think they are different issues and I respect

:57:40. > :57:45.Jeremy Corbyn but think my heart is with Owen Smith.

:57:46. > :57:52.Ten seconds, why haven't you made up your mind on what will persuade you?

:57:53. > :57:56.I am still not convinced, I started off unconvinced, both genuine post,

:57:57. > :58:00.I would be happy spend the evening with you in the pub, but I am now

:58:01. > :58:08.pretty much decided that I'm going to from voting. Let's talk further

:58:09. > :58:10.on the subject! Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen, thank you Owen

:58:11. > :58:20.Smith and thank you, Jeremy Corbyn. The results are announced on

:58:21. > :58:44.September 24. A few weeks to go. Turning into another beautiful day

:58:45. > :58:46.across most parts of the country