06/09/2016

:00:11. > :00:18.Good morning. Welcome to the programme. This morning, facing up

:00:19. > :00:26.to 99 years in an American prison and $9 million in fines, an autistic

:00:27. > :00:29.student from Sussex accused of hacking into US government websites

:00:30. > :00:33.and stealing personal details of hundreds of thousands of employees

:00:34. > :00:37.tells us he fears for his life if he is extradited to the States. There

:00:38. > :00:42.is a war on whistle-blowers and activists on going in the United

:00:43. > :00:46.States. War is not too heavy a word. It is barely possible that Gary

:00:47. > :00:50.Wilmot receive a trial in the United States. The pressure to agree to a

:00:51. > :00:56.plea bargain is enormous. And Larry is facing charges in three separate

:00:57. > :01:01.courts. It makes it almost impossible to go to trial. Will he

:01:02. > :01:07.receive a fair trial? No. He will not receive a trial at all.

:01:08. > :01:10.We'll bring you an exclusive interview with Lauri Love -

:01:11. > :01:13.who finds out next week if he'll be extradited to the states.

:01:14. > :01:15.Also on the programme, the woman vilified after the death

:01:16. > :01:18.of Baby Peter Connolly - the ex- head of Children's Services

:01:19. > :01:20.in the north London borough of Haringey where Peter died,

:01:21. > :01:23.Sharon Shoesmith will tell us what lessons she believes should be

:01:24. > :01:31.A series of JK Rowling short stories based on Hogwarts School

:01:32. > :01:33.of Witchcraft and Wizardry have just been released -

:01:34. > :01:40.and we've got a group of children here who are about to get stuck in.

:01:41. > :01:47.Good morning. What do you think of it so far? It's good. It follows the

:01:48. > :01:52.story pretty well and I cannot wait to read further. We're told that the

:01:53. > :01:55.books will take an hour to read so we will come back to the children

:01:56. > :01:56.throughout the programme and they will give us their verdict at the

:01:57. > :02:13.end. Welcome to the programme,

:02:14. > :02:15.we're live until each weekday morning until 11 on BBC 2,

:02:16. > :02:18.the BBC News Channel and online. We'll bring you the latest breaking

:02:19. > :02:22.news and developing stories. At around 10:30 this morning,

:02:23. > :02:25.the radical preacher Anjem Choudary will be sentenced for

:02:26. > :02:26.encouraging people to support He could face up

:02:27. > :02:30.to ten years in jail. We'll bring you that sentence

:02:31. > :02:32.as soon as it's handed down Plus, former mayor of

:02:33. > :02:36.London Ken Livingstone tells us "nobody should care" what Keith Vaz

:02:37. > :02:39.has or hasn't been up to with Do get in touch on all the stories

:02:40. > :02:49.we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag VictoriaLive

:02:50. > :02:52.and if you text, you will be charged More than 200 people have been

:02:53. > :02:57.prosecuted under the new 'revenge porn' law, according to figures

:02:58. > :03:00.from the Crown Prosecution Service. It became an offence to share

:03:01. > :03:02.private sexual photographs or films of someone without their permission

:03:03. > :03:05.in England and Wales last April. Today's report is the first time

:03:06. > :03:08.cases of this kind of crime have The Director of Public Prosecutions

:03:09. > :03:12.is warning they're part of a growing trend of crimes committed

:03:13. > :03:27.through social media. Of course there was a flip side

:03:28. > :03:33.because it means that it allows us to really trace the evidence, to

:03:34. > :03:35.take it and use it in court. So it does also allow us to really build

:03:36. > :03:39.strong cases. Joanna is in the BBC

:03:40. > :03:43.Newsroom with a summary The retailer Sports Direct -

:03:44. > :03:47.that was condemned over working practices and zero hours contracts -

:03:48. > :03:50.is to improve pay and conditions for staff at its main

:03:51. > :03:51.distribution centre. An independent review

:03:52. > :03:53.into its working practices found serious shortcomings -

:03:54. > :03:55.which Sports Direct Staff at its warehouse are now to be

:03:56. > :03:59.put on guaranteed hours The Labour MP Keith Vaz will today

:04:00. > :04:15.be urged to stand down as chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee

:04:16. > :04:18.- after newspaper reports Mr Vaz is due to discuss his future

:04:19. > :04:22.with the Commons Home Affairs He's reported to be facing a vote

:04:23. > :04:26.of no confidence. The BBC understands senior figures

:04:27. > :04:28.on the committee are consulting Commons clerks about what powers

:04:29. > :04:31.they have to force Mr Vaz out. A BBC investigation has found that

:04:32. > :04:35.drugs that used to be known as legal highs

:04:36. > :04:37.are being manufactured and imported into the UK from China

:04:38. > :04:40.on an industrial scale. The drugs used to be available over

:04:41. > :04:43.the counter on the high street but were banned in May

:04:44. > :04:45.after being linked It's now feared that China

:04:46. > :04:51.is becoming a retailer to the world for these

:04:52. > :04:53.psychoactive substances. UK police say they're trying to stop

:04:54. > :04:56.the shipments coming in, British Airways passengers face

:04:57. > :05:00.delays after an technical glitch Angry travellers complained of hours

:05:01. > :05:05.queuing at airports, and some reported they had been told

:05:06. > :05:10.the problem was worldwide. The company's apologised

:05:11. > :05:13.to customers, saying their IT teams A group of activists

:05:14. > :05:18.is disrupting flights The protest, by a number

:05:19. > :05:25.of Black Lives Matter demonstrators, The police are there trying

:05:26. > :05:29.to defuse the situation. The Black Lives Matter movement says

:05:30. > :05:32.it wants to highlight the UK's environmental impact

:05:33. > :05:35.on the lives of black people, saying the 'climate crisis

:05:36. > :05:46.is a racist crisis'. One of Britain's most notorious

:05:47. > :05:49.radical clerics - Anjem Choudary - Choudhary, who's 49,

:05:50. > :05:53.was convicted last month of inciting support for the terror group Islamic

:05:54. > :05:54.State. He could face up to

:05:55. > :05:58.10 years in prison. President Obama has cancelled

:05:59. > :06:00.a meeting with the controversial Philippine President Rodrigo

:06:01. > :06:01.Duterte, after he was Both presidents are among leaders

:06:02. > :06:05.gathering for the Association of Southeast Asian

:06:06. > :06:07.Nations summit in Laos. Rodrigo Duterte has

:06:08. > :06:14.insulted the Pope, the UN, foreign ambassadors,

:06:15. > :06:15.and now the President Just before flying off

:06:16. > :06:27.to the summit, he was asked what he would say to Mr Obama's

:06:28. > :06:30.questions about human rights abuses. I am a president of a sovereign

:06:31. > :06:36.state, and we have long ceased I do not have any master,

:06:37. > :06:42.except the Filipino people. Don't ask just throwaway

:06:43. > :06:58.questions and statements. 2,500 people have been killed

:06:59. > :07:03.in just over two months Most are said to be drug users

:07:04. > :07:12.or dealers, but no one Many Filipinos are pleased that

:07:13. > :07:15.something is being done about lawlessness on the streets,

:07:16. > :07:17.but many others are horrified They want the international

:07:18. > :07:22.community to tell Mr Duterte But the president is having

:07:23. > :07:29.none of that. The campaign against

:07:30. > :07:39.drugs will continue. Plenty will be killed until the last

:07:40. > :07:42.pusher is out of the streets. Mr Obama played down the insult,

:07:43. > :07:45.but his staff cancelled to do is to talk to their Philippine

:07:46. > :07:56.counterparts to find out is this in fact a time when we can have some

:07:57. > :07:59.constructive, productive Both leaders are now in Laos,

:08:00. > :08:18.and both will attend a summit. Everyone's waiting for the next

:08:19. > :08:20.burst of undiplomatic language. A huge forest fire which has

:08:21. > :08:23.destroyed nearly 800 acres of land on the Costa Blanca in Spain,

:08:24. > :08:25.has been brought under control 300 firefighters tackled the blaze

:08:26. > :08:29.which was about 75 miles south-east More than 1,400 people

:08:30. > :08:33.have been evacuated from their homes since Sunday evening, with those

:08:34. > :08:35.near Javea the worst affected. The Spanish authorities say

:08:36. > :08:37.they suspect the fire Scotland's First Minster Nicola

:08:38. > :08:44.Sturgeon will set out her programme Ms Sturgeon has described her plans

:08:45. > :08:50.as "ambitious", and is expected to tell the Scottish parliament

:08:51. > :08:56.that the focus will be on improving Researchers say that taking

:08:57. > :08:59.Vitamin D could reduce the risk of severe asthma attacks when taken

:09:00. > :09:03.with traditional treatments. A review of nine studies found fewer

:09:04. > :09:07.attacks needing hospital treatment in patients using the supplement,

:09:08. > :09:10.which is not strictly a vitamin but is supposed to echo the effects

:09:11. > :09:13.of sunlight on the skin. Here's our Health Correspondent,

:09:14. > :09:16.Adam Brimelow. Nearly 5.5 million people

:09:17. > :09:25.in the UK have asthma. every day, severe asthma attacks

:09:26. > :09:29.cause on average more than 180 hospital admissions

:09:30. > :09:31.and three deaths. In this review, researchers found

:09:32. > :09:35.that giving vitamin D supplements alongside usual medication reduced

:09:36. > :09:39.the risk of attacks requiring A or hospital admission from 6%

:09:40. > :09:42.to 3% and fewer cases But there was no effect on day

:09:43. > :09:50.to day asthma symptoms. The authors say the findings

:09:51. > :09:52.are exciting but more Although we showed

:09:53. > :10:03.a protective effect we were not able to identify

:10:04. > :10:07.whether everyone benefited from vitamin D or whether it was

:10:08. > :10:09.restricted to those with lower And for that reason,

:10:10. > :10:13.we are now doing further research We can get vitamin D

:10:14. > :10:17.from food such as oily fish, eggs and fortified cereals,

:10:18. > :10:19.but for most people the bulk of it is made from the action

:10:20. > :10:25.of sunlight on the skin. UK health officials advise people

:10:26. > :10:28.to consider taking vitamin D supplements in autumn and winter

:10:29. > :10:30.to protect bone and muscle health. But at much lower levels

:10:31. > :10:33.than used in this review. The authors say people should see

:10:34. > :10:37.a pharmacist or a GP before That's a summary of

:10:38. > :10:55.the latest BBC News. In a few moments time we will talk

:10:56. > :11:03.to Lauri Love, the 31-year-old student studying engineering,

:11:04. > :11:05.accused of hacking into various US government websites, the Nasa

:11:06. > :11:12.website, the Federal Reserve and so on. We have already got comments

:11:13. > :11:16.from you about his case. This is an e-mail from Peter. Autism or

:11:17. > :11:20.Asberger's did not prevent Lauri Love committing this crime. It was

:11:21. > :11:25.not a factor. And along with threats of taking his own wife, it should be

:11:26. > :11:29.ignored in prosecuting him. If they have any bearing, which I do not

:11:30. > :11:32.believe they do, then it is in sentencing that these pleas should

:11:33. > :11:38.be considered. This campaign is fatuous and misguided, and a crime

:11:39. > :11:42.should always be prosecuted. This tweet from Andrew. Yes, he should be

:11:43. > :11:47.prosecuted but he should be subject to UK law, end of. It would not work

:11:48. > :11:51.the other way around, that is for sure. That is in reference to the

:11:52. > :11:56.extradition was between the UK and the US. Another tweet, don't hack

:11:57. > :11:59.into computers. And this from Paul: The expedition legislation is

:12:00. > :12:01.grotesque and unfair. And we will talk to Lauri Love in the next few

:12:02. > :12:03.minutes. Throughout the programme,

:12:04. > :12:05.we'll talk to our group who're currently devouring

:12:06. > :12:08.the latest series of short stories JK Rowling has released based

:12:09. > :12:18.on Hogwarts School of They are short stories, and these

:12:19. > :12:21.children here reckon that they might have got most of the way through by

:12:22. > :12:27.the end of the programme. They will tell us what they are like. If you

:12:28. > :12:31.are getting in touch, and your texting, you will be charged at the

:12:32. > :12:40.standard network rate. Time for the sport. Andy Murray, is the favourite

:12:41. > :12:47.to win the US open? Is looking very good. He dropped just five Games

:12:48. > :12:59.against Grigor Dimitrov and he will now face Kei Nishikori in the next

:13:00. > :13:05.match. His route to the final will include a Novak Djokavic. If he is

:13:06. > :13:09.to get there, he is playing better tennis, out of themselves and Novak

:13:10. > :13:13.Djokavic. Novak Djokavic went out early in the Olympics, and early at

:13:14. > :13:17.Wimbledon. Murray won the Olympics and Wimbledon, so he is playing the

:13:18. > :13:20.better tennis of the two at the moment. Djokovic might be the

:13:21. > :13:24.favourite but you have to fancy Andy Murray to go on and win a second US

:13:25. > :13:30.open title. A word on Serena Williams as well. She is also

:13:31. > :13:36.through to the quarterfinals, and she has no won more matches at the

:13:37. > :13:40.Grand Slams than any other player. 308 matches. She has surpassed the

:13:41. > :13:44.record previously held by Roger Federer. She had already beating

:13:45. > :13:48.Martina Navratilova's record in the women's game. It goes to show how

:13:49. > :13:53.good Serena Williams is and her dominance of the women's game

:13:54. > :13:58.continues. Wales, after last night, do we think they will qualify for

:13:59. > :14:01.the next World Cup? It was going to be interesting to see how they would

:14:02. > :14:05.play last night, following the incredible success they achieved at

:14:06. > :14:09.the Euros, reaching the semifinals. Were they going to suffer from a

:14:10. > :14:15.hangover? They were not last night. They beat Moldova 4-0 last night.

:14:16. > :14:19.They were always expected to beat Moldova, with the lowly standing

:14:20. > :14:24.they have in the Fifa rankings. This was one of Gareth Bale's two goals,

:14:25. > :14:28.Joe Allen with one of the others. Gareth Bale is no four goals short

:14:29. > :14:34.of the all-time goal-scoring Welsh record held by Ian Rush. And at 27,

:14:35. > :14:37.you have to say that he will surpass that by some distance. Hugely

:14:38. > :14:43.impressive from Wales and Gareth Bale. I think the real test will be

:14:44. > :14:52.when they face Austria in their next match in October. A stern test. And

:14:53. > :14:56.Rory McIlroy, winning for the first time in a while? It has been over a

:14:57. > :14:59.year since he won a PGA title. A significant win, not only with the

:15:00. > :15:05.Ryder Cup around the corner. But interestingly, this championship

:15:06. > :15:10.forms part of the FedEx Cup play-offs, the second tournament out

:15:11. > :15:14.of four. If he was to go on and top those standings, he is fourth after

:15:15. > :15:19.this win, and if he tops the standings at the conclusion, he is

:15:20. > :15:23.in line for a windfall of ?7 million. I am not saying that

:15:24. > :15:26.golfers are in it for the money but that is a significant carrot on the

:15:27. > :15:36.end of a rather expensive piece of string.

:15:37. > :15:41.Is that it for the moment? It is, yes. Until we speak to you again in

:15:42. > :15:47.15 minutes time. Thank you, John. Next, an autistic man accused

:15:48. > :15:49.of hacking into US government computers tells this programme

:15:50. > :15:52.he would consider killing himself if Lauri Love, who has

:15:53. > :15:55.Asperger's Syndrome, is accused of stealing huge amounts

:15:56. > :15:58.of data from US agencies including the Federal Reserve,

:15:59. > :16:00.the Department of Defence, American authorities want

:16:01. > :16:04.the 31-year-old to stand trial in the US over

:16:05. > :16:09.charges of cyber-hacking. His lawyers say it could result

:16:10. > :16:12.in a sentence of up to 99 years Lauri Love is here this morning

:16:13. > :16:20.and in a moment we'll talk to him. But first let's take a look back

:16:21. > :16:23.at how all this began. Three years ago, somebody posing

:16:24. > :16:28.as a UPS courier turned up 28-year-old Lauri Love was called

:16:29. > :16:33.downstairs to sign for the package. It was all a deception,

:16:34. > :16:37.a police sting to catch a man now accused of hacking into the FBI,

:16:38. > :16:42.the US central bank and America's COMPUTERISED VOICE: Greetings,

:16:43. > :16:46.citizens of the world, It's suspected Love was part

:16:47. > :16:52.of Anonymous, a secretive network of hackers which targets

:16:53. > :16:54.governments and companies. They tend to happen so much

:16:55. > :16:58.because they want to gain from their hacking, they do it

:16:59. > :17:01.because one of their beliefs is that all corporate information should be

:17:02. > :17:03.in the public domain, so if people are storing personal

:17:04. > :17:06.data and private data, If they think people are behaving

:17:07. > :17:12.badly, they want to that. Two weeks ago today,

:17:13. > :17:15.a line was crossed. Two weeks ago today,

:17:16. > :17:19.Aaron Swartz was killed. Love is accused of being one of four

:17:20. > :17:22.Anonymous hackers behind Operation Last Resort,

:17:23. > :17:28.an online protest which followed the suicide of a high-profile

:17:29. > :17:30.internet hacktivist. With Aaron's death, we can

:17:31. > :17:33.wait no longer. The time has come to show

:17:34. > :17:35.the United States Department of Justice and its affiliates,

:17:36. > :17:40.the true meaning of infiltration. As payback, it's alleged Anonymous

:17:41. > :17:42.broke into computer systems belonging to US agencies,

:17:43. > :17:44.including the FBI, The Americans say they have evidence

:17:45. > :17:50.Lauri Love himself downloaded thousands of staff records,

:17:51. > :17:55.including credit card details. He allegedly wrote to other

:17:56. > :17:58.hackers with the message, There is no suggestion, though,

:17:59. > :18:03.that he made money from this or that But I think it is more

:18:04. > :18:07.the embarrassment issue, more that people want to send

:18:08. > :18:10.a message, saying, if you try to break into our systems,

:18:11. > :18:13.then we are going to come for you. Certainly, there is no reason why

:18:14. > :18:20.anybody who calls themselves a hacker or even a security

:18:21. > :18:22.researcher should be getting into things

:18:23. > :18:24.like Nasa and the Federal Reserve. It's not the sort of thing

:18:25. > :18:26.you should be doing. The US Army Investigation Command

:18:27. > :18:30.said they traced some of the attacks back through an internet address

:18:31. > :18:32.in Romania, paid for by a PayPal After his arrest, he was questioned

:18:33. > :18:36.by Britain's National Crime Agency, but he's never been charged

:18:37. > :18:38.in the UK and investigation Instead, he is wanted by US

:18:39. > :18:42.authorities for accessing US There is a war on whistle-blowers

:18:43. > :18:49.and hacktivists ongoing And I don't think war is too

:18:50. > :18:57.heavy a word for that. Love's supporters claim

:18:58. > :18:59.if he is extradited he could be sentenced to 99

:19:00. > :19:01.years in a US prison. Other hackers in his position say

:19:02. > :19:04.they have been forced into a plea deal, a reduced sentence of ten

:19:05. > :19:07.years or more to avoid In the UK, the maximum sentence

:19:08. > :19:11.for a computer crime like this I think it's fairly possible that

:19:12. > :19:17.Lauri won't receive any trial The pressures to agree

:19:18. > :19:22.to a plea-bargain are enormous anyway and Lauri is facing

:19:23. > :19:24.charges in three separate It makes it almost

:19:25. > :19:30.impossible to go to trial. No, he would not receive

:19:31. > :19:35.any trial at all. Lauri Love, then, is

:19:36. > :19:37.now fighting extradition. What a court hearing in July,

:19:38. > :19:42.his defence team argued he suffers from depression and Asperger

:19:43. > :19:45.syndrome, a form of autism. Lawyers for the US said

:19:46. > :19:48.he was using that as a shield On the face of it, this case looks

:19:49. > :19:53.similar to Gary McKinnon's, another alleged British hacker

:19:54. > :19:57.diagnosed with Asperger's. His decade-long battle

:19:58. > :19:59.against extradition to the US ended in 2012, when Theresa May,

:20:00. > :20:01.then the Home Secretary, blocked the US request

:20:02. > :20:07.on health grounds. Mr McKinnon's extradition would give

:20:08. > :20:10.rise to such a high risk It is now judges who decide these

:20:11. > :20:20.things, not politicians. The idea was to rebalance

:20:21. > :20:24.and extradition deal with the United States that many

:20:25. > :20:27.felt was unfair. The Love case is likely to be

:20:28. > :20:31.the first real test of the new law, The judge will make her decision

:20:32. > :20:39.public on 16th September. We can talk exclusively

:20:40. > :20:45.to Lauri Love now. Good morning to you. Thank you for

:20:46. > :20:49.coming on the programme. Thank you for having me. How do you respond in

:20:50. > :20:58.broad terms to these accusations? I'm hoping if if the extradition is

:20:59. > :21:03.refuse, there has been no evidence provided over the three years. If

:21:04. > :21:07.the forum has changed the law, we can continue the process into a UK

:21:08. > :21:11.court. How difficult has it been then to try and fight this when you

:21:12. > :21:14.haven't been presented with any particular evidence against you?

:21:15. > :21:18.Yeah, I mean, it is difficult to face very serious allegations for

:21:19. > :21:21.three years and not have any due process, ideally in a society, if

:21:22. > :21:23.somebody is accused of something they're charged and they can see the

:21:24. > :21:28.evidence, they can formulate a defence and they can have their day

:21:29. > :21:31.in court. The issue is if I were to be extradited to America, there

:21:32. > :21:37.would be no day in court as was alluded to earlier because I had

:21:38. > :21:42.been made an offer I couldn't refuse in terms of plea bargaining. Why do

:21:43. > :21:46.you say a plea bargain would be coercive? The legal experts from the

:21:47. > :21:49.United States calculated that I could be facing up to 99 years if

:21:50. > :21:53.there are three trials and the charges are presented in a certain

:21:54. > :21:55.way. The Department of Justice then makes an offer where they'll present

:21:56. > :21:59.different charges and they will recommend a lower sentence. The

:22:00. > :22:02.problem is 19 out of 20 people take this offer. I think that maybe

:22:03. > :22:07.demonstrates there is some problems with that system. Why? Because if 19

:22:08. > :22:11.out of 20 people never have a trial, I'm not sure if that's really due

:22:12. > :22:15.process and I'm not sure if it is really justice. Can you get your

:22:16. > :22:22.head around the figure of 99 years? It is quite absurd. Anymore than a

:22:23. > :22:25.few decades, you don't see an end to it and because of the poor

:22:26. > :22:29.conditions in US prisons with people with mental health difficulties I

:22:30. > :22:32.would be at risk of dying in some unfortunate way.

:22:33. > :22:37.Right. That's a serious fear for you, isn't it? Yeah. This was argued

:22:38. > :22:47.in the extradition hearing because of depression and Asperger's and

:22:48. > :22:50.because the US prisons, they're don't provide therapies. You are

:22:51. > :22:54.kept in a small room by yourself. Here in the UK they would attempt to

:22:55. > :23:02.make contact with families and support the person who is at risk.

:23:03. > :23:05.The barrister acting for the CPS during your extradition hearing

:23:06. > :23:10.accused you of using your disabilities as a shield, what's

:23:11. > :23:13.your response? It is upsetting. They didn't have a better argument to

:23:14. > :23:16.make, but it was offensive to the legal experts who are eminent in

:23:17. > :23:20.their field and it is offensive to me that someone who faced

:23:21. > :23:24.difficulties through to mental health for all my life and reactions

:23:25. > :23:26.like that are part of the reason why there is such a stigma around it

:23:27. > :23:32.that stops people getting the support they need. A viewer said,

:23:33. > :23:39."Put the autism, put the Asperger's to one side. Don't dot alleged crime

:23:40. > :23:46.then." Well, again that's a matter for the court. As was mentioned in

:23:47. > :23:50.the introduction, the reason we're having this conversation is because

:23:51. > :23:56.there was a tragic death of a young man and he died because of that

:23:57. > :24:00.coercive plea bargaining. If the extradition is refused it will give

:24:01. > :24:03.people an opportunity to make progress. Let me read messages from

:24:04. > :24:07.people watching you around the country. A viewer says, "It is so

:24:08. > :24:13.important to understand the effect of stress on people with autism." .

:24:14. > :24:20.Help us to keep finding the answers." Tia says, "Lauri Love

:24:21. > :24:28.should not be extradited. It is so sad he is autistic. There is no need

:24:29. > :24:33.for harshness." Jamie says, "I have 100% support for Lauri Love." Tony

:24:34. > :24:37.says, "Lauri should be subject to British law. The crime was allegedly

:24:38. > :24:41.committed in the UK and therefore, our laws should apply." I think

:24:42. > :24:47.there is a question of sovereignty here. In the UK we have a junctional

:24:48. > :24:54.court system and a good prison system and the US shouldn't step in

:24:55. > :24:57.when they don't like the results. We have an extradition treaty between

:24:58. > :25:02.the UK and the US. Lots of people complained about it. Nobody seems to

:25:03. > :25:05.have been able to change it. It was dined by David Blunkett several

:25:06. > :25:13.years ago. He made comments about it since. That is the way it is. Yeah,

:25:14. > :25:19.it is. Efforts have been brought about to reform it. The US haven't

:25:20. > :25:22.needed to bring any evidence in the extradition hearing. People would

:25:23. > :25:26.say that's absurd that I could be taken out of that country without

:25:27. > :25:31.anything being proven. I hope the reforms will be successful and if

:25:32. > :25:37.the extradition is refused it might promote those causes again. Are you

:25:38. > :25:43.a hacker? Yeah, I would describe myself as a hacker. A hacker uses

:25:44. > :25:47.technology and takes it apart and puts it together in interesting

:25:48. > :25:51.ways. I work as an information security consultant. I hope

:25:52. > :25:58.companies keep their networks secure. Have you hacked illegally?

:25:59. > :26:05.That would be a question for the court. All right. Have you ever

:26:06. > :26:10.hacked on to the banner of Anonymous? I mean part of the idea

:26:11. > :26:14.of Anonymous is to not be affiliated in a name sense. If anyone said they

:26:15. > :26:18.were a member of Anonymous they missed the point.

:26:19. > :26:23.People will read into that answer what they will. In terms of the

:26:24. > :26:28.three years that this has been hanging over you, what impact has it

:26:29. > :26:33.had on you? What impact has it had on your family, your parents? I

:26:34. > :26:38.really feel for my parents who have to worry and they have the stress of

:26:39. > :26:44.this. For myself, I have eczema and I scratch my face and it bleeds and

:26:45. > :26:47.I will have infections and I don't get a good night's sleep often.

:26:48. > :26:53.Stress compounds other immune system problems. So it would be nice to

:26:54. > :26:56.have less stress, but this is an important process that may

:26:57. > :27:00.potentially result in some good so that keeps me going.

:27:01. > :27:04.Do you have any steer from your legal team about what the outcome of

:27:05. > :27:11.the extradition hearing will be? We will hear next week. Presumably

:27:12. > :27:17.you're hopeful, of course... I'm guardedly optimistic on the basis

:27:18. > :27:21.the US didn't present a case. We had 14 expert witnesses on US prison

:27:22. > :27:25.conditions, on mental health and on the sentencing disparity between the

:27:26. > :27:29.UK and the US. Not very much effort was made apart from by the barrister

:27:30. > :27:34.to cast doubt on my mental health conditions. So I would hope that the

:27:35. > :27:40.judge has enough to make the correct decision to refuse the extradition.

:27:41. > :27:44.This tweet from a viewer, "The extradition treaty with the US is

:27:45. > :27:52.one-sided. Their sentencing is ridiculous, but I don't think

:27:53. > :27:58.Asperger's is an excuse. But have a trial in England." Ian says, "If the

:27:59. > :28:03.hacker has broken UK law, prosecute. If not, do nothing." Another viewer

:28:04. > :28:05.says, "I don't think he should face extradition, the protection of the

:28:06. > :28:13.various sites should be increased and if he can get in them, so can

:28:14. > :28:16.others." ." An Aoun mus text, "Mr Love should be treated with

:28:17. > :28:21.compassion because he is ill. He should be involved in computer

:28:22. > :28:25.security." You are? If the networks were compromised, that's a problem

:28:26. > :28:29.for America and it is a problem that can't be solved by putting people in

:28:30. > :28:34.small boxes, it is an engineering problem and solved by increasing

:28:35. > :28:39.people in computer security and this is something I'm doing, it is

:28:40. > :28:46.helping the next generation to have the skills. Hilary tweets, "I'm

:28:47. > :28:51.sorry, autism is no defence against wrongdoing." Bill says, "Guilty or

:28:52. > :28:57.not, the potential sentence is enough to keep Lauri here." Thank

:28:58. > :29:00.you for coming on the programme. Thank you.

:29:01. > :29:05.Your views are welcome on the case of Lauri Love. If you want to

:29:06. > :29:10.e-mail, or you can tweet. Still to come, the death of Baby P,

:29:11. > :29:12.Peter Connelly, sparked outrage leading to the then Director

:29:13. > :29:15.of Children's Services in Haringey, Sharon Shoesmith,

:29:16. > :29:22.being sacked live on television. We'll talk to her later

:29:23. > :29:25.in the programme about the lessons she thinks should be learned

:29:26. > :29:29.from the tragedy. We'll discuss the allegations

:29:30. > :29:40.surrounding Keith Vaz He's still fighting for his

:29:41. > :29:44.political life. We will get the views of the former Mayor of London,

:29:45. > :29:49.Ken Livingstone. Here's Joanne in the BBC Newsroom

:29:50. > :29:51.with a summary of today's news. More than 200 people have

:29:52. > :29:56.been prosecuted under the new "revenge porn" law,

:29:57. > :29:58.according to figures It became an offence to share

:29:59. > :30:02.private sexual photographs or films of someone without their permission

:30:03. > :30:05.in England and Wales last April. Today's report is the first time

:30:06. > :30:08.cases of this kind of crime have The retailer, Sports Direct,

:30:09. > :30:17.that was condemned over working practices and zero hours contracts -

:30:18. > :30:20.is to improve pay and conditions for staff at its main

:30:21. > :30:21.distribution centre. An independent review

:30:22. > :30:23.into its working practices found serious shortcomings

:30:24. > :30:25.which Sports Direct Staff at its warehouse are now to be

:30:26. > :30:29.put on guaranteed hours The Labour MP Keith Vaz will today

:30:30. > :30:36.be urged to stand down as chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee

:30:37. > :30:38.- after newspaper reports with the Commons Home Affairs

:30:39. > :30:44.Committee this afternoon. He's reported to be facing a vote

:30:45. > :30:47.of no confidence. The BBC understands senior figures

:30:48. > :30:49.on the committee are consulting Commons clerks about what powers

:30:50. > :30:57.they have to force Mr Vaz out. British Airways says it's checking

:30:58. > :31:01.in customers at Heathrow and Gatwick Airport as normal

:31:02. > :31:03.now after an earlier However it said it could take longer

:31:04. > :31:07.than usual and urged customers Angry travellers complained of hours

:31:08. > :31:13.queuing at airports. A group of activists

:31:14. > :31:15.is disrupting flights The protest, by a number

:31:16. > :31:19.of Black Lives Matter demonstrators, The police are there trying

:31:20. > :31:22.to defuse the situation. The Black Lives Matter movement says

:31:23. > :31:25.it wants to highlight the UK's environmental impact

:31:26. > :31:27.on the lives of black people, saying the 'climate crisis

:31:28. > :31:43.is a racist crisis'. One of Britain's most notorious

:31:44. > :31:45.radical clerics - Anjem Choudary - Choudhary, who's 49,

:31:46. > :31:49.was convicted last month of inciting support for the terror group Islamic

:31:50. > :31:51.State. He could face up to

:31:52. > :31:53.10 years in prison. A British man wanted in the US

:31:54. > :31:55.for allegedly hacking into government computers has told

:31:56. > :31:58.this programme he fears for his life Lauri Love, who has Asperger's

:31:59. > :32:02.syndrome, could face trials in three different states

:32:03. > :32:04.and is accused of hacking into the FBI, the US central

:32:05. > :32:07.bank and the country's He told the Victoria Derbyshire

:32:08. > :32:12.programme he is worried A judge is due to announce next week

:32:13. > :32:21.if he should be extradited. President Obama has

:32:22. > :32:23.cancelled a meeting with his Rodrigo Duterte,

:32:24. > :32:27.after a public insult. Mr Duterte said he would call

:32:28. > :32:30.Mr Obama a "son of a whore", if the US President raised the issue

:32:31. > :32:33.of the sanctioned murders of alleged That's a summary of

:32:34. > :32:53.the latest BBC News. In a mad. Johnny says, if you do not

:32:54. > :32:59.want to do that time, don't do the crime. It's simple. Scotland has

:33:00. > :33:03.your back, that is from someone who does not leave their name. This

:33:04. > :33:10.tweet, he should receive the thanks for showing the weaknesses of the US

:33:11. > :33:15.IT systems. Mitch sends a long text. The guest who hacked into Nasa

:33:16. > :33:19.websites is saying it is not his fault because he has mental health

:33:20. > :33:22.issues. This seems to be the latest excuse used by people. The young man

:33:23. > :33:27.who attempted to kill Donald Trump city should be let off because he

:33:28. > :33:30.also has mental health issues. Both of these men are smart enough to get

:33:31. > :33:35.past some of the harshest security measures anywhere and the carried

:33:36. > :33:39.out their crime with planning, thought and understanding of the

:33:40. > :33:44.environment they were getting into. Jay says, regardless of his views on

:33:45. > :33:49.data security, this guy could US national security risk and he should

:33:50. > :33:52.be extradited and prosecuted there. I have mental health issues and I am

:33:53. > :33:57.sick of people using them as an excuse to get away with crime. Linda

:33:58. > :33:59.says, he has an amazing talent and it should be used for good, not

:34:00. > :34:00.abused and punished. Here's some sport now

:34:01. > :34:03.with John Watson. Andy Murray's incredible run of form

:34:04. > :34:05.continues as he reached He dropped just five games

:34:06. > :34:10.against Grigor Dimitrov He faces Kei Nishikori next -

:34:11. > :34:16.as he looks to win a second US Open Crown, adding

:34:17. > :34:18.to the Olympic Gold and Wimbledon Serena Williams has now won more

:34:19. > :34:31.grand slam matches than any other Her victory against Yaraslova

:34:32. > :34:35.Shvedova is her 308th grand slam win moving her past

:34:36. > :34:36.Roger Federer's record Gareth Bale is just four

:34:37. > :34:47.goals short of Wales' In their opening match of World Cup

:34:48. > :34:55.qualification last night he scored twice as Wales

:34:56. > :34:58.beat Moldova 4-0. It was their first competitive match

:34:59. > :35:00.since that incredible run And no signs of a post

:35:01. > :35:06.Euro hangover. And Rory McIlroy won his first PGA

:35:07. > :35:10.Tour title in over a year He came from six shots back in his

:35:11. > :35:14.final round to win by two shots. He's now fourth in the FedEx

:35:15. > :35:29.Cup play-offs. Were he to top that

:35:30. > :35:34.after the remaining two tournaments, The magic isn't over for JK

:35:35. > :35:39.Rowling - she may be done with Harry Potter,

:35:40. > :35:40.but she isn't done with Hogwarts School

:35:41. > :35:42.of Witchcraft and Wizardry. She is delving back

:35:43. > :35:44.into the wizarding world for a series of short ebooks

:35:45. > :35:47.with new and old stories about some The e-books, each about 10,000 words

:35:48. > :35:54.long, are released today. The idea is that you should be able

:35:55. > :35:55.to get through them in about an hour.

:35:56. > :36:00.How much of the Harry Potter magic will they contain?

:36:01. > :36:08.I've got a real treat for you today. You are a great wizard, Harry.

:36:09. > :36:17.Welcome to halt warts. -- Hogwarts. With us this morning some very

:36:18. > :36:19.excited people in the studio already Let's talk now to 7 year olds Helen,

:36:20. > :36:25.Bea and Lottie and 14 year old Kit - all Harry Potter fans who will be

:36:26. > :36:32.here until the end of the programme. Hello, all of you. How are you?

:36:33. > :36:38.Thank you for coming on the programme. So first of all, how much

:36:39. > :36:42.do you love Harry Potter? I love it a lot. I have played all the Games

:36:43. > :36:49.and watched all the movies and read quite a few of the books. Is there a

:36:50. > :36:53.standout film or book? They each have their own good one.

:36:54. > :37:02.Philosophers Stone is the best for me. And deathly Hallows, part one,

:37:03. > :37:08.that is the best movie. What about you, what do you think? I'm not

:37:09. > :37:17.really a big fan of it but I do like it. That is interesting. Do you have

:37:18. > :37:26.a favourite character? I have three. Harry Potter. Hermione and Ron. Do

:37:27. > :37:33.you like Ron Weasley? Are you sure? Not that bothered. Is he a bit silly

:37:34. > :37:44.for you? Kind of. Favourite characters? I am a big fan of

:37:45. > :37:53.Hermione. And what about you, Helen? Hermione. Bound to be. Of the three

:37:54. > :37:58.books released today, have you the title is handy? Do you know what it

:37:59. > :38:10.is called? Poltergeist and something? Power, politics and pesky

:38:11. > :38:20.poltergeists. And how is it going so far? Are you learning anything new?

:38:21. > :38:27.I am reading an incomplete and unreliable guide to halt -- to

:38:28. > :38:38.Hogwarts, which explores a lot of the hidden things not in the books.

:38:39. > :38:42.The form room, this book explains what is in there and how you get in

:38:43. > :38:48.there. How do you get into the Hufflepuff room? You go up the

:38:49. > :38:53.stairs and then you have to get the pass code. You go down through the

:38:54. > :38:57.kitchens, and then you have to enter a code on one of the barrels and

:38:58. > :39:00.touch the underneath. And then you will always be asked a random

:39:01. > :39:13.question, depending on who is entering. That is new info. In terms

:39:14. > :39:17.of Harry Potter aficionados, that is interesting new info. There are a

:39:18. > :39:21.lot of new things that I think Harry Potter fans will appreciate. How far

:39:22. > :39:38.are you through the one you are reading? 38%. 16%. How are you

:39:39. > :39:39.doing? 30%. OK. And kids, I think you might finish it before the end

:39:40. > :39:51.of the programme. Carry on reading. We'll keep going back to Helen,

:39:52. > :39:53.Bea, Lottie and Kit throughout the programme

:39:54. > :39:55.as they read the books. Coming up, the death of Baby P,

:39:56. > :39:58.who suffered dozens of injuries at the hands of his parents

:39:59. > :40:00.while being repeatedly seen by people that

:40:01. > :40:08.should have helped him We will hear from her on what

:40:09. > :40:13.lessons she thinks we can learn from the little boy's death.

:40:14. > :40:16.One of Britain's most notorious radical clerics - Anjem Choudary -

:40:17. > :40:18.will be sentenced this morning, after he was convicted of inciting

:40:19. > :40:20.support for the terror group Islamic State.

:40:21. > :40:22.Counter-terror police have spent almost 20 years trying

:40:23. > :40:25.to bring Choudary to trial, accusing him - and the proscribed

:40:26. > :40:28.organisations which he helped run - of radicalising young men and women.

:40:29. > :40:32.He now faces up to ten years in prison.

:40:33. > :40:35.In a moment we'll speak to a group of people who knew him

:40:36. > :40:38.and discuss what kind of impact his sentence could have

:40:39. > :40:53.But first, more about who Anjem Choudary is.

:40:54. > :40:59.Anjem Choudary, doing what he did best, preaching his own brand of

:41:00. > :41:03.radical Islam. For two decades, the authorities have been monitoring him

:41:04. > :41:10.but as a trained lawyer, he knew how to stay on the right side of the

:41:11. > :41:14.law. Said to be clever, charismatic and dangerous, followers who fell

:41:15. > :41:20.under his spell included Michael and oblige all, one of the men who

:41:21. > :41:25.murdered Fusiliers Lee Read the in 2013. Another follower was Richard

:41:26. > :41:30.Dart, a Muslim convert jailed for terrorism offences. That's

:41:31. > :41:33.stepbrother has spent years studying and Jim Choudhury. He is like a

:41:34. > :41:41.father figure to a lot of these guys. He knows what buttons to push.

:41:42. > :41:49.He radicalised as people, indoctrinate them with extremist

:41:50. > :41:52.ideology. Anjem Choudary has been linked to countless extremists here

:41:53. > :41:57.and abroad but has never been charged with a serious offence until

:41:58. > :42:03.now. In 2014, he pledged allegiance to Islamic State and invited others

:42:04. > :42:10.to support it. One of his keenest followers was this man, who fled

:42:11. > :42:14.from the UK whilst on bail and joined Islamic State. He is

:42:15. > :42:18.suspected of being the new Jihadi John. The authorities had a chance

:42:19. > :42:21.to get Anjem Choudary in the dock and charged him with the unusual

:42:22. > :42:28.crime of inviting support for a banned group. He boasted extremist

:42:29. > :42:31.material online and that was then available around the world. In the

:42:32. > :42:40.light of his speeches and the people he had posted -- the material he had

:42:41. > :42:44.posted, it was enough to convict him. Choudhury will be sentenced

:42:45. > :42:47.today and is facing up to ten years in prison. Authorities hope that the

:42:48. > :42:50.influential hate preacher will finally be silenced.

:42:51. > :42:54.Let's talk now to Dal Babu, a former superintendent

:42:55. > :42:58.with the Met Police who now advises the government on counter extremism.

:42:59. > :43:01.Steve Gillan is from the Prison Officers Association.

:43:02. > :43:04.And Rashad Ali is a former radical who now helps prevent young

:43:05. > :43:16.Welcome. What drew you to the Islamist organisation you supported,

:43:17. > :43:21.which had the same ideology as the one that Anjem Choudary led? A

:43:22. > :43:25.number of different things. First of all, it is attractive on an

:43:26. > :43:28.ideological level. It is offering something alternative in terms of

:43:29. > :43:33.politics and religion and belonging. It takes the lean back ticks all of

:43:34. > :43:39.those boxes. Growing up in the 90s, there was not a lot of debate about

:43:40. > :43:45.whether you were Muslim or British or Asian. -- it takes all of those

:43:46. > :43:48.boxes. It capitalises on that. You are Muslim, first and foremost, and

:43:49. > :43:52.that is your primary identity. Coupled with what was happening

:43:53. > :43:56.around the globe at the time, living through the atrocities in Bosnia,

:43:57. > :44:04.the genocide that was happening in trip permits and so on, this was

:44:05. > :44:08.happening to blonde, blue-eyed, white Muslims whose only cultural

:44:09. > :44:11.collection with Islam was the fact that was their heritage, and showed

:44:12. > :44:17.raised debate is about to what extent can you really be a muscle

:44:18. > :44:23.within society. Coupled with that, the political dimension. In order to

:44:24. > :44:27.protect Muslims, in Bosnia, Palestinian territories or cashmere,

:44:28. > :44:33.or whether it was in Chechnya at the time, actually the singular force

:44:34. > :44:37.that can protect Muslims was a global superpower that did not

:44:38. > :44:44.recognise borders, like Syria or Iraq or any other border, and was

:44:45. > :44:47.able to unify Muslims into a global caliphate. The idea of an old Muslim

:44:48. > :44:53.empire being re-established, reasserted in the world, coupled

:44:54. > :44:57.with religious identities and your sense of belonging. And where does

:44:58. > :45:00.the violence coming to it? It comes into deciding how do you want to

:45:01. > :45:07.bring this about. And perhaps that is where Anjem Choudary cumin? There

:45:08. > :45:13.is an ideal that rejects everything Western and the idea is that the

:45:14. > :45:17.only way you can bring it about is through violence. Anjem Choudary's

:45:18. > :45:22.perspective was bringing it about in his version of jihad, violent acts.

:45:23. > :45:27.Whether that was globally for him or for some of his affiliates,

:45:28. > :45:32.terrorist acts in the UK, or now clearly associating with Islamic

:45:33. > :45:33.State in Iraq and Syria, then it was swearing allegiance to them and

:45:34. > :45:46.taking actions on their behalf. From a former Chief Superintendent's

:45:47. > :45:50.view, how do you get in the way, how do you stop people being attracted

:45:51. > :45:53.to that? Well, I think Anjem Choudary was a very, very dangerous

:45:54. > :45:57.individual. He preyed on vulnerable individuals. He was in the

:45:58. > :46:02.Premiership of radicalisation, so he was one of the Big Four who have now

:46:03. > :46:06.all been put away for been kicked out of the country. He was a very,

:46:07. > :46:11.very dangerous individual. He preyed on vulnerable individuals and he

:46:12. > :46:14.went for the sound bite, the idea of having the Islamic flag flying over

:46:15. > :46:19.Downing Street and I think what needed to happen was he was dealt

:46:20. > :46:24.with, but the difficulty was that the hypocrisy, he was a nightclub

:46:25. > :46:29.goer, he was a philanderer, he was all of these things and suddenly

:46:30. > :46:33.found religion and the danger is with somebody like him, he preyed on

:46:34. > :46:36.vulnerable individuals and he made an issue of ensuring he used his

:46:37. > :46:40.legal training to stay on the right side of the law which made it

:46:41. > :46:45.incredibly difficult for the authorities to actually prosecute

:46:46. > :46:51.him. But during that time, he radicalised individuals and my fear

:46:52. > :46:54.now is that we've now had the Premiership radicalisers

:46:55. > :47:00.neutralised, the danger is now a lot of the radicalisation will be done

:47:01. > :47:03.via Twitter and via Facebook by individuals sending messages from

:47:04. > :47:08.Syria and Lebanon. Well, that's already being done. I wonder how

:47:09. > :47:11.relevant Anjem Choudary has been in recent years when social media has

:47:12. > :47:16.taken over? First of all, the organisation has been quite active

:47:17. > :47:19.on the social media. These are groups essentially with you have

:47:20. > :47:26.been connected to a host of different people. Twitter, 90,000

:47:27. > :47:32.individuals accounts have been taken down. 90,000? 90,000. It is not just

:47:33. > :47:37.Twitter, it is telegram, it is Facebook, it is the different

:47:38. > :47:41.mediums, YouTube has been instrumental in this regard. The

:47:42. > :47:49.battle ground for this is on the social media platforms. It is how

:47:50. > :47:53.the counter narratives go out on Facebook and target them via Twitter

:47:54. > :47:59.or being able to send out videos on YouTube to counter that message. You

:48:00. > :48:03.say he has been silenced along with three other top radicalisers, if I

:48:04. > :48:07.can put it like that, they maybe in jail for a bit. There is no silence,

:48:08. > :48:13.the social media... You're right Victoria. There isn't any silence

:48:14. > :48:16.and in some ways it become more sin ter because at least we knew Anjem

:48:17. > :48:22.Choudary was out there and he was seen as a fool by 99% of the people

:48:23. > :48:25.who dealt with him. The media should take some responsibility for giving

:48:26. > :48:30.him airtime. He was somebody who had no credibility and yet he was

:48:31. > :48:35.getting media time. He appeared on flagship programmes like the Today

:48:36. > :48:40.programme and on Newsnight and he was able to espouse without being

:48:41. > :48:44.challenged his views. I don't think that is fair that he wasn't

:48:45. > :48:49.challenged. He was challenged. But I take your point. That's your point.

:48:50. > :48:53.Steve, given that the recent Government announcement which is

:48:54. > :48:58.that someone like Choudary will be locked up in a high-security prison,

:48:59. > :49:01.isolated, so he cannot radicalise other inmates, does that make you

:49:02. > :49:08.less concerned about where he'll be jailed? No, radicalisation is a very

:49:09. > :49:14.complex issue in prisons. We don't agree with the Government

:49:15. > :49:18.recommendation. Some of the other recommendations we think are very

:49:19. > :49:23.good, but isolating individuals, it didn't work 30 years ago in the H

:49:24. > :49:26.Blocks in Northern Ireland where loyalists and Republicans

:49:27. > :49:31.automatically then demanded political status. They wore it as a

:49:32. > :49:37.badge of honour and we see the same here, whether it is Choudary or

:49:38. > :49:40.anybody else. So how would you stop somebody like him radicalising other

:49:41. > :49:44.people in jail? It has got to be done in society first because out of

:49:45. > :49:49.sight, out of mind, appears to be the order of the day now they're in

:49:50. > :49:53.prison, everything is OK. Well, everything is not OK because prisons

:49:54. > :49:57.are becoming a breeding ground. I think it has got to start in society

:49:58. > :50:01.first. Fine, so if we accept that, what would you do in jail with

:50:02. > :50:04.someone like Choudary to stop him influencing a load of other people?

:50:05. > :50:09.There is lots of initiatives that can be done. One, better training

:50:10. > :50:14.for prison officers. But first and fore most, you can't have a

:50:15. > :50:19.situation where you've got 35% less prison officers now looking after

:50:20. > :50:25.85,000 prisoners in our jails now. Even if you had more officers, I

:50:26. > :50:31.don't know how you would stop Anjem Choudary radicalising other

:50:32. > :50:37.prisoners who might be harbouring all sorts of grievances? Possibly,

:50:38. > :50:40.Victoria, but I think prison officers are very professional

:50:41. > :50:43.people that keep the public safe and I think they do an excellent job

:50:44. > :50:50.with people like Choudary and others. How? By doing what? With

:50:51. > :50:55.high-profile prisoners that have got much more proximity than what

:50:56. > :51:02.Choudary will ever have. Go on. Just let me finish. Better training, more

:51:03. > :51:05.resources, more dedication to prison officers by realising the

:51:06. > :51:09.professionalisation, but this can only be done through education in

:51:10. > :51:15.society, without demonising the Muslim faith. Let me ask you,

:51:16. > :51:18.isolation for Choudary in jail? I'm sympathetic to the idea that we need

:51:19. > :51:26.to separate them from the general prison population. Prison is a

:51:27. > :51:30.captive audience and it is people who have demonstrated an inclination

:51:31. > :51:32.towards violence and people who demonstrated a general moral

:51:33. > :51:37.prospective which considers itself separated from society. So

:51:38. > :51:41.therefore, they are more vulnerable. At the same time the issue here

:51:42. > :51:44.isn't really just about isolating without putting a plan in place and

:51:45. > :51:49.the key thing with people like Anjem Choudary and others, is being able

:51:50. > :51:52.to engage in a deralicalisation process. A lot of the work

:51:53. > :51:58.demonstrates that you can engage individuals no matter where they are

:51:59. > :52:01.on that spectrum, even the hard-end, but it can be Dungiven the right

:52:02. > :52:06.circumstances and the right people intervening. Anjem Choudary could be

:52:07. > :52:12.de-radicalised in jail? It is necessary to make that effort. I

:52:13. > :52:18.just think, I support Steve's position. If you have burglars you

:52:19. > :52:24.don't isolated burglars and you don't isolate the robbers. These

:52:25. > :52:28.people at some stage have to come into society. It is having good

:52:29. > :52:31.training for the prison officers. A huge amount of public resources have

:52:32. > :52:36.been reduced and that's where we need to be putting our resources in.

:52:37. > :52:42.This is a premiership radicaliser who has been put behind bars. Let's

:52:43. > :52:45.do what we can to ensure he doesn't damage anymore vulnerable people

:52:46. > :52:50.because there will be more vulnerable people in an enclosed

:52:51. > :52:54.space in prisons. Let's not forget the excellent work the imams are

:52:55. > :52:57.doing up and down the country de-radicalising people. A couple of

:52:58. > :53:01.comments from people listening to you. We are expecting the sentencing

:53:02. > :53:07.this morning sometime. We will bring that to you as soon as it happens.

:53:08. > :53:12.Kevin on Facebook says, "Crackdown? What crackdown? The man has been

:53:13. > :53:17.allowed to preach his hate for years. I'm sure his replacements are

:53:18. > :53:21.already in place." William e-mails to say, "If there are hundreds or

:53:22. > :53:25.tens of thousands or more just waiting to be called into violence

:53:26. > :53:28.then the problem is bigger than one man and he didn't create the problem

:53:29. > :53:34.in the first place." Thank you for those. Thank you very much for

:53:35. > :53:36.coming on the programme. Excuse the offensive language we are about to

:53:37. > :53:41.use. but American President Barack Obama

:53:42. > :53:43.has cancelled a meeting with the controversial President

:53:44. > :53:45.of the Philippines who had earlier Our Asia Correspondent Karishma

:53:46. > :53:53.Vaswani is in Laos at the summit. How did it happen? Well, the

:53:54. > :53:58.discussion or the comments were made by the Filipino president when he

:53:59. > :54:03.was holding a press conference in man lal ahead of his visit where he

:54:04. > :54:09.was due to meet with the American president, Barack Obama. A reporter

:54:10. > :54:18.asked the question, "What will you do if Barack Obama raises the issue

:54:19. > :54:22.of drug killings with you?" 2,000 people have been killed in the

:54:23. > :54:26.Philippines since he became president and he has been criticised

:54:27. > :54:32.for his shoot first, ask later policy. In response to that question

:54:33. > :54:36.the Philippine president said, "Who is Mr Obama to ask me such

:54:37. > :54:40.questions?" And he used the offensive words. The meeting meant

:54:41. > :54:46.to be held between the two on the sidelines of this summit here has

:54:47. > :54:50.been cancelled, but earlier on today, we received a statement from

:54:51. > :54:53.the Philippines delegation which said that the meeting between the

:54:54. > :54:58.United States and the Philippines will be held at a mutually agreed

:54:59. > :55:04.date later in the future. There was an expression of regret from the

:55:05. > :55:08.Filipino president who said his strong comments, he regretted his

:55:09. > :55:09.strong comments were seen as a personal attack on the American

:55:10. > :55:12.president. Thank you very much. Meanwhile, on the campaign trail

:55:13. > :55:16.to be the next President of the United States Hillary Clinton

:55:17. > :55:40.suffered a coughing fit COUGHING

:55:41. > :55:46.Every time I think about Trump I get allergic.

:55:47. > :55:50.COUGHING She said, "Every time I think about

:55:51. > :55:54.Donald Trump I get an allergic reaction." You couldn't really hear

:55:55. > :56:03.it because she was coughing so much. Let's have another listen.

:56:04. > :56:09.COUGHING Every time I think about Trump I get

:56:10. > :56:09.allergic. LAUGHTER

:56:10. > :56:14.She needs a hot cup of tea. Tomorrow, in London, we're holding

:56:15. > :56:17.a big audience programme Junior doctors may not

:56:18. > :56:22.be going on strike for But they will be going on strike

:56:23. > :56:26.for a week in a month's time. And then again in another month

:56:27. > :56:31.and so on. So the dispute hasn't been settled -

:56:32. > :56:33.just postponed and tomorrow we want to try and work out how

:56:34. > :56:37.and if it will ever be settled. You are very welcome to join us,

:56:38. > :56:40.to take part whether you're a junior doctor, you work in the NHS,

:56:41. > :56:43.you've been treated in hospital or are going to be affected

:56:44. > :56:45.by the five-day strikes. If you'd like to be part

:56:46. > :56:48.of the programme to share your views, do e-mail

:56:49. > :56:53.victoria@bbc.co.uk to apply. Let's get the latest weather update

:56:54. > :57:02.with Carol Kirkwood. When I got up at 4.15am and let

:57:03. > :57:08.Gracie out for a wee, it was so warm. You're not wrong. It has been

:57:09. > :57:12.a warm start. Temperatures last night in Northern Ireland didn't

:57:13. > :57:16.drop lower than 19.4 Celsius in Aldergrove. Now, the temperatures

:57:17. > :57:20.are higher than that. But look at this beautiful picture. Weather

:57:21. > :57:25.Watchers picture from Northern Ireland. Lovely skies there. Some

:57:26. > :57:34.blue skies, but to show you what the temperatures are like now, it is 22

:57:35. > :57:37.Celsius in Leconfield and 21 Celsius in Lossiemouth, Aberdeen, Newcastle,

:57:38. > :57:41.Eastbourne Newport to name a few places and it is feeling humid. So

:57:42. > :57:44.what we have with it is not much in the way of a breeze to turn over the

:57:45. > :57:49.cloud that we have. It is a cloudy start, but we've got a weak weather

:57:50. > :57:51.front straddled across parts of Northern Ireland and Southern

:57:52. > :57:54.Scotland. Now, that's going to continue to produce rain as we go

:57:55. > :57:59.through the course of the day. The cloud across England and Wales will

:58:00. > :58:03.break up in places so we will see bright skies or sunshine, but the

:58:04. > :58:06.lion's share of the sunshine today will be across north-east Scotland.

:58:07. > :58:09.Into the afternoon, we hang on to the band of rain across Northern

:58:10. > :58:13.Ireland. It is slipping southwards. So for the far north of Northern

:58:14. > :58:14.Ireland, it will brighten up. Northern Ireland Scotland

:58:15. > :58:19.particularly, the north-east, seeing the sunshine. Somewhere in

:58:20. > :58:22.Aberdeenshire could see 25 Celsius. But for the southern uplands, there

:58:23. > :58:26.is a lot of cloud around and patchy rain. As we come back into the rest

:58:27. > :58:31.of England and Wales, we're looking at again, quite a bit of cloud, but

:58:32. > :58:36.somewhere from London up towards the Wash could hit 26 Celsius today. And

:58:37. > :58:40.drifting across southern counties again, variable amounts of cloud,

:58:41. > :58:45.some sunny breaks and the tame too can be said for Wales. In Cardiff,

:58:46. > :58:50.highs around the 22 Celsius mark. Heading through the evening and

:58:51. > :58:53.overnight, this line of rain across Northern Ireland and Southern

:58:54. > :58:58.Scotland retreats northwards and that will allow the humid air across

:58:59. > :59:00.England and Wales to travel further north. So you will notice that

:59:01. > :59:04.across Scotland and Northern Ireland tonight. There will be a lot of

:59:05. > :59:10.cloud around. And patchy mist and fog as well. So that's how we start

:59:11. > :59:14.the day tomorrow. Once again, on a cloudy note but tomorrow with drier

:59:15. > :59:16.air being imported for the Continent, you will find it will

:59:17. > :59:22.break up readily and we will see more sunshine. It will feel much

:59:23. > :59:29.warmer as well in the south, but still, some of that rain playing the

:59:30. > :59:33.Outer Hebrides. 22 Celsius the maximum temperature in Newcastle

:59:34. > :59:37.tomorrow and up to 27 Celsius as we slip down towards the South East.

:59:38. > :59:41.Thursday, well, we have got a weather front crossing us, it is

:59:42. > :59:44.producing rain across Scotland and Northern Ireland and cloud across

:59:45. > :59:48.England and Wales. That moves away and behind it, still quite bright,

:59:49. > :59:51.some sunshine coming out and it will feel a little bit fresher. It

:59:52. > :59:57.doesn't mean it will turn cold, but it will be fresher than we're

:59:58. > :00:05.looking at than the next couple of days. And then as we head into

:00:06. > :00:09.Friday, well Friday too, is looking fairly cloudy. We've got stronger

:00:10. > :00:11.winds coming in from the west, possibly gales across north-west

:00:12. > :00:21.Scotland and the rain also coming in from the west too.

:00:22. > :00:27.She is a human sunbeam, I am telling you right now.

:00:28. > :00:29.Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 10am, I'm Victoria

:00:30. > :00:34.Later on the programme, the outrage which followed the death

:00:35. > :00:37.of Baby Peter Connolly in 2007 led to widespread condemnation

:00:38. > :00:40.It also resulted in the sacking on live television

:00:41. > :00:42.of Sharon Shoesmith, the ex-head of Children's Services

:00:43. > :00:44.in the North London Borough of Haringey by the Children's

:00:45. > :00:46.secretary at the time, Ed Balls.

:00:47. > :00:51.I have decided to take immediate action. My first priority is to put

:00:52. > :00:54.in place a new leadership and management team in Haringey

:00:55. > :00:58.Children's Services to ensure that vulnerable children in the borough

:00:59. > :01:04.are properly protected. I have directed Haringey Council today to

:01:05. > :01:08.appoint Mr John Coughlan as director of Children's Services with

:01:09. > :01:13.immediate effect. Haringey Council will now lose the current executor

:01:14. > :01:15.of Children's Services, post with immediate effect.

:01:16. > :01:19.She believes there are still lessons to be learned

:01:20. > :01:33.On the programme today, Lauri Love, an autistic student from Suffolk

:01:34. > :01:37.accused of hacking into government websites told this programme that

:01:38. > :01:42.extradition to a US jail would put his life jail. Anything more than a

:01:43. > :01:44.few decades, you see no end to it. It is difficult in US prisons for

:01:45. > :01:51.people with mental health difficulties. Many of you getting in

:01:52. > :01:55.touch about the interview. Clifford says, break laws and act the

:01:56. > :02:01.righteous cyber terrorist, then take your punishment like a man and do

:02:02. > :02:04.not cry like a child in court. Gareth says that no judge in good

:02:05. > :02:10.conscience should allow extradition without evidence. If you want to

:02:11. > :02:14.watch the interview again, you can. It is on our website:

:02:15. > :02:18.And how do new Harry Potter short stories, just released,

:02:19. > :02:21.stand up to the scrutiny of these Harry Potter fans?

:02:22. > :02:23.They will be giving their verdict on the latest tales

:02:24. > :02:25.from the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry

:02:26. > :02:35.Good morning, let's get the latest BBC news so far this morning.

:02:36. > :02:41.I love those kids curled up reading books.

:02:42. > :02:44.A group of activists is disrupting flights at London City airport.

:02:45. > :02:46.The protest by a number of Black Lives Matter demonstrators,

:02:47. > :02:50.The police are there trying to defuse the situation.

:02:51. > :02:52.The Black Lives Matter movement says it wants to highlight the UK's

:02:53. > :02:54.environmental impact on the lives of black people,

:02:55. > :03:17.saying the 'climate crisis is a racist crisis'.

:03:18. > :03:19.The retailer Sports Direct that was condemned over working

:03:20. > :03:21.practices and zero hours contracts - is to improve pay and conditions

:03:22. > :03:23.for staff at its main distribution centre.

:03:24. > :03:25.An independent review into its working practices found

:03:26. > :03:26.serious shortcomings which Sports Direct

:03:27. > :03:30.Staff at its warehouse are now to be put on guaranteed hours

:03:31. > :03:37.The Labour MP Keith Vaz will today be urged to stand down as chairman

:03:38. > :03:40.of the Home Affairs Select Committee after newspaper reports that he paid

:03:41. > :03:46.Mr Vaz is due to discuss his future with the Commons Home

:03:47. > :03:54.He's reported to be facing a vote of no confidence.

:03:55. > :03:56.The BBC understands senior figures on the committee are consulting

:03:57. > :04:01.Commons clerks about what powers they have to force Mr Vaz out.

:04:02. > :04:04.One of Britain's most notorious radical clerics - Anjem Choudary -

:04:05. > :04:09.Choudhary, 49, was convicted last month of inciting support

:04:10. > :04:14.He could face up to ten years in prison.

:04:15. > :04:17.A British man wanted in the US for allegedly hacking

:04:18. > :04:20.into government computers has told this programme he fears for his life

:04:21. > :04:27.Lauri Love, who has Asperger's syndrome, could face trials in three

:04:28. > :04:30.different states and is accused of hacking into the FBI, the US

:04:31. > :04:41.central bank and the country's missile defence agency.

:04:42. > :04:44.A judge is due to announce next week if he should be extradited.

:04:45. > :04:46.He told the Victoria Derbyshire programme he is worried

:04:47. > :04:53.It's quite absurd. Anything more than a few decades, you see no end

:04:54. > :04:59.to it. Because of the power conditions in US prisons, I think I

:05:00. > :05:00.would be in danger of dying in some unfortunate way. -- because of the

:05:01. > :05:03.poor conditions. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:05:04. > :05:13.News, more at 10.30. This text from Richard about Lauri

:05:14. > :05:18.Love, the 31-year-old student facing extradition to the States. I am on

:05:19. > :05:22.the autism spectrum and I have anxiety and it depends how bad the

:05:23. > :05:32.crime is in the USA. I always think that Americans say things and the

:05:33. > :05:36.actions happen. I have 100% support for Lauri Love. Another tweet: I

:05:37. > :05:39.believe that Lauri Love should be recruited by the government to

:05:40. > :05:46.protect our cyber networks. And this tweet: The internet has no borders

:05:47. > :05:47.and if he hacked into US systems, he should be prosecuted, regardless of

:05:48. > :05:50.the location he was in. Do get in touch with us

:05:51. > :05:54.throughout the morning, Andy Murray is lining up a second US

:05:55. > :06:00.Open title after reaching the quarter finals of the last

:06:01. > :06:03.tennis major of the year. He beat Grigor Dimitrov in straight

:06:04. > :06:17.sets, dropping just five games. He has now reached the quarterfinals

:06:18. > :06:22.in 22 of his last 23 Grand Slams. Next, a meeting with Kei Nishikori.

:06:23. > :06:31.I don't think I made any mistakes in the match. I kept good concentration

:06:32. > :06:35.throughout. It was a good match and Dimitrov played his best but I did

:06:36. > :06:39.not give him a chance to get into the match. Meanwhile Serena Williams

:06:40. > :06:45.has won more Grand Slam matches than any other player in history. Her

:06:46. > :06:49.victory against Yaroslava Shvedova is 308 Grand Slam win, moving past

:06:50. > :06:58.Roger Federer's record as she reached the quarterfinals.

:06:59. > :07:00.In their first competitive match since they reached

:07:01. > :07:02.the semi-finals of Euro 2016, Wales kicked off their World Cup

:07:03. > :07:04.qualifying campaign with a 4-nil win over Moldova.

:07:05. > :07:07.Gareth Bale was the star of the show in Cardiff,

:07:08. > :07:11.Joe Allen then scored his first international goal, before Bale

:07:12. > :07:20.He's now second on Wales' goalscoring list, behind Ian Rush.

:07:21. > :07:22.A great start for Wales that pleased their manager.

:07:23. > :07:29.I think tonight was difficult because the last time we were

:07:30. > :07:33.together it was in front of the world, really, in a semifinal of a

:07:34. > :07:36.tournament. And now we are starting the beginning of a campaign against

:07:37. > :07:42.a team we are expected to beat at home. So it was a different

:07:43. > :07:47.challenge for us. But the boys answered all the questions and like

:07:48. > :07:53.I say, we could have scored by more than four, but three points, that is

:07:54. > :07:55.what it is all about. The next match is going to be a sterner test,

:07:56. > :08:01.against Austria in October. Rory McIlroy played an incredible

:08:02. > :08:03.final round as he won the Deutche Bank Championship -

:08:04. > :08:05.his first PGA tile He was six shots behind

:08:06. > :08:10.But he overturned that with a superb round of 65 to finish two shots

:08:11. > :08:12.clear on 15-under-par. It was McIlroy's first PGA Tour

:08:13. > :08:21.title in more than a year. I am proud of myself that I was able

:08:22. > :08:29.to keep that momentum going, to keep the same thoughts and not get

:08:30. > :08:33.negative if I hit it bad. I tried to stay positive throughout the weekend

:08:34. > :08:36.and as I said, it has been a great lesson this week for future

:08:37. > :08:39.tournaments, if I do not get off to the start that I want. And that is

:08:40. > :08:44.all the sport for now. The death of Baby P is one

:08:45. > :08:46.of the most high profile Peter Connelly, the blue eyed,

:08:47. > :08:50.blonde haired little boy, was found dead in his cot

:08:51. > :08:52.in the North London borough A year later his mother

:08:53. > :08:58.Tracy Connelly, her boyfriend Steven Barker and his brother

:08:59. > :09:00.Jason Owen were convicted of 'causing or allowing'

:09:01. > :09:06.Peter's death. Details of the shocking

:09:07. > :09:10.crime emerged. injuries to his body and had been

:09:11. > :09:15.seen more than 60 times by health workers, the police

:09:16. > :09:18.and social workers. Two days before his death,

:09:19. > :09:21.a children's doctor who was standing in as a locum

:09:22. > :09:24.missed the fact that the child Yet it was only social workers

:09:25. > :09:30.that were vilified. The case sparked outrage,

:09:31. > :09:34.leading to the then Director of Children's Services

:09:35. > :09:36.at Haringey, Sharon Shoesmith, being sacked live on television

:09:37. > :09:38.by the then Children's We'll talk to Sharon Shoesmith

:09:39. > :09:42.in a moment about a book she's written, Learning From Baby P,

:09:43. > :09:45.on the lessons she thinks should be learned from the death

:09:46. > :09:54.of Peter Connolly. The death in 2007 of 17-month-old

:09:55. > :10:00.Peter Connolly, known for so long as BPP, sparked huge public outrage.

:10:01. > :10:04.His mother, Tracey Connelly, her boyfriend and their lodger were

:10:05. > :10:09.jailed for causing or allowing the toddler's death, but much of the

:10:10. > :10:11.criticism was directed at social workers in the borough of Haringey

:10:12. > :10:16.in north London were the toddler lived and was on the at risk

:10:17. > :10:19.register. Baby Peter was found to have suffered 50 injuries and had

:10:20. > :10:24.long been known to them. In the final eight months of his life,

:10:25. > :10:29.social workers, police and health professionals make contact with his

:10:30. > :10:36.family on 60 occasions. In July of 2007, less than a week before his

:10:37. > :10:39.death, Maria Ward, a social worker, made a prearranged home visit but

:10:40. > :10:43.missed injuries to his face and hands after he was deliberately

:10:44. > :10:48.smeared with chocolate to hide them. Days before he died, a doctor missed

:10:49. > :10:52.the fact that he had it broken spine. More than a million people

:10:53. > :10:58.signed a petition demanding the sacking of social workers and

:10:59. > :11:02.doctors who failed him. In November 2008, the children's minister, Ed

:11:03. > :11:07.Balls, ordered an enquiry into his death and a month later, Haringey

:11:08. > :11:10.Council's director of Children's Services, Sharon Shoesmith was

:11:11. > :11:15.sacked from her post with immediate effect. Haringey Council will now

:11:16. > :11:20.remove the current director of Children's Services from her post

:11:21. > :11:23.with immediate effect. An official report in 2010 criticised social

:11:24. > :11:29.workers and their managers, saying that they were too willing to

:11:30. > :11:36.believe Peter's mother's claim that her son was injured accidentally.

:11:37. > :11:41.Sharon Shoesmith later won a pay-out of ?600,000 after a wrongful

:11:42. > :11:42.dismissal court ruled in her favour. Sharon Shoesmith, former Director

:11:43. > :11:52.of Children's Services Good morning. Thank you for talking

:11:53. > :11:55.to us. Straightaway, let's deal with the accusation that you are cashing

:11:56. > :12:03.in on the death of Peter Connolly by writing this book. Well, the book is

:12:04. > :12:08.based on my PhD, which I wrote at university, and over the years since

:12:09. > :12:14.Peter died, any physical or financial resources I have had have

:12:15. > :12:20.been used to raise some profile and awareness of some of the issues

:12:21. > :12:24.around cases like his. I only this week have travelled around this

:12:25. > :12:28.country with an organisation called I am social work, and I am joining

:12:29. > :12:32.another organisation, social workers without borders, to try to promote

:12:33. > :12:40.some of the work that social workers do. But are you cashing in? I am not

:12:41. > :12:44.cashing in. The film talked about ?600,000. There was never ?600,000,

:12:45. > :12:47.there was a fraction of that which I cannot reveal because I have signed

:12:48. > :12:55.papers and people would be ready to tackle me. It is a fraction of that.

:12:56. > :13:01.And it is eight years. So any resource I had is ploughed into

:13:02. > :13:08.raising the profile about harm to children. The book, you say, is

:13:09. > :13:12.about learning from the death of Peter Connolly and trying to

:13:13. > :13:15.understand why politicians, and the public, reacted in the way that they

:13:16. > :13:19.did when an number of other children, over 50 other children

:13:20. > :13:23.died in the same year and there was not the same reaction. But you were

:13:24. > :13:30.at the heart of it, so I wonder how the book could be seen as objective?

:13:31. > :13:34.You are not an independent observer. No, I am not, and that is an issue

:13:35. > :13:39.for anyone who writes a book on a difficult subject. And how you try

:13:40. > :13:45.to deal with that is to provide the evidence. And to reference the

:13:46. > :13:48.evidence. My book does reference quite a large amount of evidence,

:13:49. > :13:57.some of it which came through the court process. And I am able to

:13:58. > :14:04.stand back and criticise myself. How? With great difficulty, of

:14:05. > :14:08.course. But with the passage of time, and I am a self reflective

:14:09. > :14:12.person, I am able to do that. But at the heart of this, and at the heart

:14:13. > :14:16.of some of your questions already is the sense that I am guilty. And I

:14:17. > :14:23.think I have to tackle that one. I'm not guilty. I have only asked two

:14:24. > :14:26.questions and I have many more. But both of them had the undercurrent

:14:27. > :14:32.that I had done something wrong and I should be punished in some way.

:14:33. > :14:35.You are entitled to your opinion but perhaps it is just your perception

:14:36. > :14:39.because you are coming from that place, because that is how it has

:14:40. > :14:44.been for you. Absolutely. That is how it has been for all of these

:14:45. > :14:48.years. You argue strongly that in this country, when a child dies at

:14:49. > :14:54.the hands of the mum and dad, what society does more often than not is

:14:55. > :14:58.blamed social workers. And that is what happened, as we know, in the

:14:59. > :15:01.case of Peter Connolly. And the argument is that it is because

:15:02. > :15:05.society cannot cope with the fact that mums and dads killed their own

:15:06. > :15:12.children. Tell us more about your theory. It is one of the arguments I

:15:13. > :15:16.make in the book, that the crime of familial child homicides, often it

:15:17. > :15:22.is a mother or father or an uncle or an aunt who is involved, it is such

:15:23. > :15:28.repugnant crime. It is very hard for us to understand how that happen.

:15:29. > :15:32.Most of us really cherish our children. It is very hard for that

:15:33. > :15:40.to be understood. I think that has to be explored. In finding it hard

:15:41. > :15:47.to handle, we tend to look elsewhere for blame, we look for another

:15:48. > :15:50.reason. Who feel that this child? -- who failed this child. The

:15:51. > :15:55.circumstances around Peter's death remain complex. To this date we do

:15:56. > :16:00.not know how he died or when he died or who killed him, yet we think we

:16:01. > :16:05.know so much about Peter. But he was denied an inquest. So we do not know

:16:06. > :16:09.the answer to any of those questions, even today.

:16:10. > :16:17.Why do you think again, your argument, but why do you think it is

:16:18. > :16:21.more palatable to people to blame social workers or another agency,

:16:22. > :16:25.but in this case social workers rather than put responsibility

:16:26. > :16:29.squarely at the hands, in this case, of the mother, the boyfriend and the

:16:30. > :16:34.lodger? Well, it is easier in one sense, but also when you look in

:16:35. > :16:37.in-depth as I do in the book what happened after Peter's death and

:16:38. > :16:43.after the public knew about Peter's death which was a year on, you have

:16:44. > :16:47.got a real complex interaction between politicians, the media, and

:16:48. > :16:53.the public. The public were ill informed and misled from the

:16:54. > :16:57.start... By? By politicians and tabloid media. What were the

:16:58. > :17:02.misleading things you say were put out? Cameron was the first thing

:17:03. > :17:08.that kicked this off in this very negative direction. You know, a real

:17:09. > :17:13.example of opportunism, here was an Opposition leader desperate to be

:17:14. > :17:17.Prime Minister, had to bring The Sun tabloid newspaper on his side in

:17:18. > :17:23.order to get votes, yeah. We know that's how it works and there is an

:17:24. > :17:29.interaction between him and The Sun, Rebekah Brooks and that develops

:17:30. > :17:33.into a very challenging interaction, I think, between Rebekah Brooks and

:17:34. > :17:38.Ed Balls in the end. I cover this in the book in some detail. But what

:17:39. > :17:42.was misleading? What did politicians and the media put out that was

:17:43. > :17:47.misleading? The worst of what they put out was that social workers

:17:48. > :17:53.stood by and watched the torture of Peter Connelly. That was how bad it

:17:54. > :17:57.got. That is how desperate it became. When I use those words, you

:17:58. > :18:03.know, I have shivers running through my body because it was so far from

:18:04. > :18:08.the truth. And you know, if I say to you that Peter was found dead on a

:18:09. > :18:12.Friday morning. He had spent the previous weekend with his father,

:18:13. > :18:22.his natural father, and his maternal grandmother. On Monday, the social

:18:23. > :18:26.worker met both the father, talking about Peter's future, the fact that

:18:27. > :18:29.he was having this specialist medical investigation on the

:18:30. > :18:32.Wednesday. The next day he is met in the street. The whole family is met

:18:33. > :18:39.by a health professional who knows the family and she interacted with

:18:40. > :18:41.them. The next day he goes to see the doctor, and your little

:18:42. > :18:46.introduction covered that and you say it is a fact that he had a

:18:47. > :18:51.fractured spine, but we actually don't know that. There is some

:18:52. > :18:56.conflict between pathologists in what they think was the situation

:18:57. > :19:00.with Peter that day. The next day, the mother is in our offices with

:19:01. > :19:05.the police officers and they're telling her that they have no case

:19:06. > :19:08.against her. They have no evidence against her and that they won't

:19:09. > :19:14.press charges, the day before he died and the next day he is found

:19:15. > :19:18.dead. It feels like it is still rankles with you, certainly having

:19:19. > :19:23.read the book, that social workers got all the criticism when doctors,

:19:24. > :19:27.health professionals, the police, also made numerous visits to the

:19:28. > :19:31.little boy? Yes. It doesn't wrangle with me. I think it is something

:19:32. > :19:35.that we have to know and understand. I have never used blame against

:19:36. > :19:41.blame, yeah? Blame is not part of my psyche really. It is not something

:19:42. > :19:47.that I've ever used... But you do in the book, you blame the politicians,

:19:48. > :19:51.you blame the police for private briefing which contributes to

:19:52. > :19:57.misleading the public? I would really contest your interpretation.

:19:58. > :20:01.I don't blame. What you find in the book is a real emphasis on

:20:02. > :20:04.understanding, yeah? I really set that out at the beginning. That we

:20:05. > :20:11.need to stand back and understand what happened here. I need to

:20:12. > :20:14.understand too, yeah? I need to accept the public's reaction because

:20:15. > :20:21.of what they were told, what they did understand. No, I would contest

:20:22. > :20:27.that it is blame. The serious issue here is how we responded to Peter's

:20:28. > :20:32.death and how we tackle this kind of crime. I gave the statistics and

:20:33. > :20:37.you've quoted them this morning, you know, there is one child every week

:20:38. > :20:40.dies. Now, that is not general knowledge in our population. People

:20:41. > :20:44.don't know that, yeah? We have a lot of general knowledge about lots of

:20:45. > :20:49.other things. But not this. We don't put that kind of information out

:20:50. > :20:52.there. And I think the serious issue and what the book is trying to say,

:20:53. > :20:59.this is something we have to come to terms with. We have to face this one

:21:00. > :21:03.and try to understand it and this just simply blaming social workers

:21:04. > :21:08.isn't going to get us anywhere. In fact, it is making the situation

:21:09. > :21:13.worse because the social work profession is just under siege all

:21:14. > :21:20.of the time. It has become, I feel, quite fragile, quite fear of

:21:21. > :21:25.failure. I push social workers everywhere I go to try and join a

:21:26. > :21:33.single independent professional organisation that can support them

:21:34. > :21:39.and protect them. But if you make such an important or a profession,

:21:40. > :21:44.fearful, which is I think is what we've done here. They meet me and

:21:45. > :21:50.go, "Oh my goodness, we couldn't believe what happened. We live in

:21:51. > :21:55.horror that it will happen to us." I have contact from social workers,

:21:56. > :21:57.only one yesterday, saying, "Please can I talk to you about what is

:21:58. > :22:02.happening to me?" This is happening now. It is happening now. At the

:22:03. > :22:08.same time I want to add Victoria, these professionals are out there

:22:09. > :22:13.today and they're at this moment making decisions which are life and

:22:14. > :22:18.death. Yeah. I think it is time we faced up to that. It is time we

:22:19. > :22:23.understood it and it is time we got behind the social work profession. I

:22:24. > :22:28.wonder and you may not like this question, I put this to you - I

:22:29. > :22:33.wonder if your book is looking for conspiracy theories when none exist?

:22:34. > :22:37.Arguing that this relationship between the politicians at the time,

:22:38. > :22:42.The Sun newspaper, a bit of briefing from the Metropolitan Police at the

:22:43. > :22:45.time, somehow manipulated the public into thinking that social workers

:22:46. > :22:51.were to blame for Peter Connelly's death when they knew he died at the

:22:52. > :22:56.hands of his mother. They knew he was on the at risk register in your

:22:57. > :23:02.borough, they knew his death happened on your watch and

:23:03. > :23:07.therefore, it can legitimately be argued that you should accept some

:23:08. > :23:16.responsibility for that? Well, there are a number of issues there. If you

:23:17. > :23:21.accept that one child a week is dying in this way, yeah and that

:23:22. > :23:24.those children will either be on on at risk register or not, but they

:23:25. > :23:29.will exist somewhere and be attached to some local authority or some

:23:30. > :23:32.borough, are we going to sack a Director of Children's services

:23:33. > :23:36.every time a child dies? No. Where will that take us? Because it is

:23:37. > :23:42.different. Because in this case it was on your watch when the child was

:23:43. > :23:50.subject to a child protection plan. Yes, but my point still stands, does

:23:51. > :23:55.it not? Many children die, and I don't want to, you know, say this

:23:56. > :24:01.lightly. It is a horrific crime. But it is happening and the point I'm

:24:02. > :24:05.making to you is if this is how we are going to react to it, no one is

:24:06. > :24:09.going to do this job. No one is going to be a Director of A

:24:10. > :24:15.children's service. I was entirely responsible and accountable in that

:24:16. > :24:19.I followed Government guidelines to look at some detail as to what the

:24:20. > :24:25.conduct was of social workers and I have to remind you that social

:24:26. > :24:29.workers were never struck off by their own regulator. Social workers

:24:30. > :24:32.at the heart of this case are still social workers today. Not

:24:33. > :24:40.practising, but they're still social workers. That gives you some idea of

:24:41. > :24:46.what the issues were for them. But you say conspiracy theory. I took

:24:47. > :24:50.years to come to terms with the evidence that I had obtained through

:24:51. > :24:55.the court system, years to realise what it was and what it was saying

:24:56. > :25:00.and the most difficult set of documents that I looked at were the

:25:01. > :25:04.17 drafts of the Ofsted report and my analysis, which took place over

:25:05. > :25:08.years, and I used other people to look at it and say, "Is what I have

:25:09. > :25:15.analysed here and written actually what is there or am I being, you

:25:16. > :25:19.know, imagining this?" It goes to the heart of your question and they

:25:20. > :25:24.say no, it is here. The evidence is there and I make reference to it in

:25:25. > :25:31.my book and it allowed me to say and it is an important point, that the

:25:32. > :25:35.report that Ed Balls is referring to in your clip that was so appalling,

:25:36. > :25:39.was actually written by Ofsted's top team. It wasn't written by the

:25:40. > :25:46.inspectors who came to Haringey and it was written by Ofsted's top team

:25:47. > :25:51.in conjunction with some of Ed Balls' civil servants, they were

:25:52. > :25:57.giving steers, make sure there is a clear attribution of responsibility

:25:58. > :26:02.because they felt they were dealing with an absolute upsurge of emotion

:26:03. > :26:05.among the public which they were... You argued once you had been sacked

:26:06. > :26:09.effectively that sort of closed things down. Yes, they thought that.

:26:10. > :26:13.They began to feel that there was only one way out of this and this

:26:14. > :26:18.was to get me to sack me and indeed, we now understand and there is

:26:19. > :26:25.evidence in the Leveson Inquiry that Rebekah Brooks rang Ed Balls and we

:26:26. > :26:28.are led to believe this was to say, you know, either sack Shoesmith or

:26:29. > :26:34.we'll turn this thing on you. People lost their way. I want to read some

:26:35. > :26:38.comments as people heard you speak this morning and most of them are

:26:39. > :26:46.essentially, I'll read one. It is representative. This tweet from

:26:47. > :26:50.Philips, "Sharon Shoesmith is overplaying the victim here. It is

:26:51. > :26:53.enough." Stephen says, "When you were head of children's services,

:26:54. > :26:59.you have to take responsibility, Sharon." Paul thinks that you are

:27:00. > :27:04.shameless, his words. I would urge them to read the book and to read

:27:05. > :27:10.what is set out there. OK. I respect their views. They were led in a

:27:11. > :27:14.direction with information... They might think that's a rather

:27:15. > :27:21.patronising view of them. They are able to make up their own minds?

:27:22. > :27:25.Well, I think the tabloid media can be incredibly, incredibly

:27:26. > :27:29.persuasive. And the British public can be bright and intelligent? Well,

:27:30. > :27:34.Ireland sure there are people who would support my view as well. I

:27:35. > :27:40.haven't come on the programme to dissuade the British public. I

:27:41. > :27:43.respect their view actually. If what they were told was absolutely true

:27:44. > :27:50.that social workers stood by and watched the torture of a child,

:27:51. > :27:56.they're absolutely entitled to say everything like that to me again and

:27:57. > :28:00.again. Sharon shoe Smith. Let me bring you this news. It is to do

:28:01. > :28:03.with something that happened in the early hours of this morning.

:28:04. > :28:09.Officers alerted to a number of protesters who have made their way

:28:10. > :28:12.to London City Airport. Nine people erected a tripod and locked

:28:13. > :28:15.themselves together on the runway. Officers negotiated with the

:28:16. > :28:19.protesters and specialist officers arrived to unlock them. Those are

:28:20. > :28:24.the pictures as you can see from the runway. At approximately 9.30am

:28:25. > :28:28.officers started to arrest the protesters. Well, let's talk to one

:28:29. > :28:34.of the people who have organised this protest and is at the scene.

:28:35. > :28:39.Can you hear me? Hi Victoria. How are you doing? Very well, thank you.

:28:40. > :28:43.Where are you now? I'm right beside London City Airport. Are you on the

:28:44. > :28:50.runway or outside the perimeter? Outside the perimeter. Had you been

:28:51. > :28:56.on the runway earlier or not? No. So what were your co protesters doing

:28:57. > :29:01.this morning and why? So we've called for a shutdown of London City

:29:02. > :29:05.Airport because the climate crisis is a racist crisis. Can you say that

:29:06. > :29:15.again, please? Can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead. Shutdown London City

:29:16. > :29:23.Airport because the climate crisis is a racist crisis. What do you

:29:24. > :29:28.mean? Basically from Newham to New Orleans time and again we see the

:29:29. > :29:31.environmental costs of the aviation industry hitting working class

:29:32. > :29:38.communities of colour first and hardest. Our aviation industry is

:29:39. > :29:49.accounting for 13% of carbon emissions in this country. People

:29:50. > :29:52.from the UK are 28% more likely to be exposed than their white

:29:53. > :29:58.counterparts. It is due to the inequality around the globe. That

:29:59. > :30:01.means that we're trying to put this issue on the map. What's your

:30:02. > :30:05.evidence that black working class people in this country are more

:30:06. > :30:13.exposed to air pollution than white people? Well, they're more likely to

:30:14. > :30:20.live beside airports, beside power plants because they can't afford to

:30:21. > :30:25.live in places that aren't. Right. Forgive me, this is going to sound

:30:26. > :30:30.facetious and some of those people get on planes to go on holiday? Of

:30:31. > :30:37.course. This isn't about those people, those holiday-makers, it is

:30:38. > :30:41.not about that. London City Airport is the embodiment of short haul air

:30:42. > :30:49.travel by the wealthiest in our society. So the average wage of the

:30:50. > :30:54.people that fly out of the airport is ?136,000 euros a year per annum

:30:55. > :30:59.and let's compare that to the fact that 40% of the London Borough of

:31:00. > :31:05.Newham, the residents in the London Borough of Newham is scraping by on

:31:06. > :31:10.under ?20,000 a year. So, you know, the people that can afford to fly

:31:11. > :31:17.out of the airport are creating our climate crisis.

:31:18. > :31:28.And so how is this protest, people lying down on the runway, going to

:31:29. > :31:32.change things? This country has a rich and vibrant history of

:31:33. > :31:36.disobedience and this action has been taken out of regard for human

:31:37. > :31:43.life. It is important for us to put on the map the inequality around the

:31:44. > :31:50.world and the fact that black lives are more likely to suffer as a

:31:51. > :31:58.result of the climate crisis. I think that by disrupting, we are

:31:59. > :32:02.doing that. We are raising, people are talking about this issue. Thank

:32:03. > :32:16.you very much for talking to us. Thank you for your time. Amena, who

:32:17. > :32:23.is outside City Airport in London. She believes the climate crisis is a

:32:24. > :32:26.racist crisis. Next, tabloid story about a senior politician, male

:32:27. > :32:33.prostitutes and allegations about an offer to pay for cocaine.

:32:34. > :32:35.Labour's Keith Vaz is an elected member of parliament who is also

:32:36. > :32:37.chairman of a powerful parliamentary committee that scrutinises

:32:38. > :32:39.government policy on prostitution and drugs.

:32:40. > :32:41.Today members of that committee will be hearing from Mr Vaz

:32:42. > :32:44.on whether he intends to resign or step aside for a bit.

:32:45. > :32:47.The husband and father of two certainly doesn't seem shy

:32:48. > :32:48.about what's happened - he appeared in parliament

:32:49. > :32:51.yesterday to ask a question of the new Home Secretary.

:32:52. > :32:54.But could or should that appearance in the Commons be one

:32:55. > :32:57.Let's hear what the former Labour MP and London mayor

:32:58. > :33:02.Let's talk to Norman's Notes. This meeting between the Home Affairs

:33:03. > :33:07.Select Committee and Mr Vaz, you will give his side of the story and

:33:08. > :33:12.then what? I think Mr Vaz is going to face enormous pressure to step

:33:13. > :33:17.down. He will give his defence, if you like. He will argue that he has

:33:18. > :33:21.not broken any laws, and what he does in his private life is entirely

:33:22. > :33:27.up to him. He will also be critical of the newspaper for paying the

:33:28. > :33:34.prostitutes for this story. But he will face demands to go and if he

:33:35. > :33:43.doesn't go, I'm told that he will be given 24 hours to reflect on his

:33:44. > :33:46.position. The committee will then reconvene and the expectation is

:33:47. > :33:48.that they may then try to hold a vote of no-confidence his position.

:33:49. > :33:51.We are in uncharted territories. Nobody has ever done this before,

:33:52. > :33:56.holding a vote of no-confidence in a committee chairman. They are not

:33:57. > :33:59.even sure whether it would have any authority, whether you can host a

:34:00. > :34:04.committee chairman. But significantly, the move is now

:34:05. > :34:08.hardening against him. I was speaking to a Labour figure on the

:34:09. > :34:14.committee who said that Labour members are not inclined to support

:34:15. > :34:19.it. Now that would seem to me to suggest that he's going to have an

:34:20. > :34:25.awfully difficult job hanging on to his position. I expect that what he

:34:26. > :34:29.will do is say, look, I am prepared to stand aside temporarily but I

:34:30. > :34:32.suspect that will not be enough for members of the committee and I

:34:33. > :34:36.expect that he will recognise that and stand down or he will be forced

:34:37. > :34:42.to stand down tomorrow. Thank you very much. Let's talk to former

:34:43. > :34:46.Labour MP and London mayor, Ken Livingstone, who joins us outside

:34:47. > :34:50.his home in north-west London. Labour members of the Home Affairs

:34:51. > :34:56.Select Committee are not inclined to support Keith Vaz. Do you? I think

:34:57. > :35:00.someone's private life should be private. I remember 35 years ago in

:35:01. > :35:05.the run-up to the GRC election, reporters came to me with evidence

:35:06. > :35:09.that the Tory leader, my opponent, was having an affair. They got

:35:10. > :35:12.pictures of women going in and out of the flat he was renting and I

:35:13. > :35:19.said, I will not run with that, we're running on the issue of

:35:20. > :35:23.cutting fares. I regret to hear that the Sunday Mirror have decided that

:35:24. > :35:27.this is more important than the serious issues such as the economy.

:35:28. > :35:31.He is the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee which conducts

:35:32. > :35:35.enquiries into drugs and prostitution. He is alleged to have

:35:36. > :35:41.offered to fund the buying of cup game and to have used a male

:35:42. > :35:45.prostitutes. Is that not a conflict of interest? -- the buying of

:35:46. > :35:51.cocaine. Let's see what turns out to be true. I could recount all the

:35:52. > :35:54.stories that you will have read about me in the press that turned

:35:55. > :35:58.out not to be true. I can't recall being at Labour Party conferences

:35:59. > :36:06.and watching journalists going up to the hotels with prostitutes they had

:36:07. > :36:11.picked up. All across our society, people pay for sex. I do not approve

:36:12. > :36:15.of it and I do not do it myself but I do not think it is illegal. If it

:36:16. > :36:23.is true, do you accept that is a conflict of interest? I don't think

:36:24. > :36:28.the fact, if it turns to be true that he has paid for sex, I don't

:36:29. > :36:30.think that prevents him from conducting an enquiry into

:36:31. > :36:34.prostitution and the problems of prostitution. The of prostitution or

:36:35. > :36:39.what happens to the poorer prostitutes, not so much their

:36:40. > :36:44.clients. -- Barak prostitutes. Are you concerned that a colleague of

:36:45. > :36:50.yours is allegedly exploiting young immigrant men for sex. Let's see

:36:51. > :36:55.what turns out to be true about all of this. I have known Keith Vaz for

:36:56. > :36:59.40 years. He has been a good campaigner on a range of issues

:37:00. > :37:02.about social justice and in all that time, I have never recalled him

:37:03. > :37:06.talking about sex or anything like that, or drugs. He was always

:37:07. > :37:10.focused on what he could do to make life better for his constituents or

:37:11. > :37:15.the wider community. If it is true, surely that would alarm you, that he

:37:16. > :37:20.was exploiting such young men, potentially vulnerable young men for

:37:21. > :37:26.sex? Let's see how vulnerable they are. The reality is, do you judge

:37:27. > :37:32.someone's political career on the basis of one incident like this or

:37:33. > :37:39.the total worth of over four decades? Everybody makes mistakes.

:37:40. > :37:45.Some newspapers in Britain today have reported that he has visited

:37:46. > :37:49.male prostitutes before. Let's see what turns out to be true. The fact

:37:50. > :37:53.is, don't judge somebody on one mistake they make in their life or

:37:54. > :37:57.even a couple of mistakes. It is the total that he has done for other

:37:58. > :38:02.people, in his own constituency and up and down Britain. He has always

:38:03. > :38:06.been on the side of justice and that cannot just be swept away by one

:38:07. > :38:11.mistake. Worth repeating that they are allegations as you rightly say.

:38:12. > :38:14.Could I ask you briefly about your own position? You are still

:38:15. > :38:18.suspended from the Labour Party for bringing the party into disrepute

:38:19. > :38:22.over comments he made about Hitler and Zionism. Have you had any

:38:23. > :38:29.conversation with the party about a way back? Basically, it is no four

:38:30. > :38:35.months since I was suspended and I am still waiting for the committee

:38:36. > :38:39.to sit down and decide whether what I said was true or not. I think they

:38:40. > :38:44.are putting it off because the simple fact is that I have so much

:38:45. > :38:48.evidence that what I was saying is true. Particularly striking, if you

:38:49. > :38:51.go to the Holocaust memorial Linda Rougemont, one of the pamphlets they

:38:52. > :38:55.sell to tourists is about the deal that Hitler did with the Zionists in

:38:56. > :39:00.the 1930s. I don't think anyone can accuse the Holocaust Memorial

:39:01. > :39:03.management of being anti-Semitic. You think they are delaying it

:39:04. > :39:09.because there is so much evidence that it is true? So much evidence.

:39:10. > :39:13.You probably know that the board of deputies of British Jews want Labour

:39:14. > :39:19.to expel you immediately attribute reiterated your views on Hitler and

:39:20. > :39:24.Zionism on Vanessa Feltz' radio programme. I am not surprised,

:39:25. > :39:29.because if you look at the evidence that the chairman of the board of

:39:30. > :39:32.deputies gave to Keith Vaz's committee, he opened by saying that

:39:33. > :39:36.for Ken Livingstone to have said that Hitler was a Zionist is deeply

:39:37. > :39:41.concerning. If I had said that, I would not just have apologised, I

:39:42. > :39:46.will just gone to my doctor to check if I was in the first stages of

:39:47. > :39:49.dementia. To suggest that is mad. He loathed and feared Jews all his life

:39:50. > :39:55.but he did do a deal with the movement in the 1930s and that led

:39:56. > :40:05.to 66,000 German Jews going to what is now Israel and escaping the

:40:06. > :40:08.Holocaust. I will read you a quote from Marie Van Dozzell, vice

:40:09. > :40:12.president of the board of deputies. Ken Livingstone seems to want to

:40:13. > :40:17.rewrite history to make it seem like Zionism was responsible for the

:40:18. > :40:20.Holocaust, which is as false as it is tacitly offensive. Every day that

:40:21. > :40:30.Labour does not expel him is a stain on the party. It is quite simple. Go

:40:31. > :40:33.on to the websites, check. You can see the interview with Norm and

:40:34. > :40:37.Finkelstein defending everything I said. There are dozens and dozens of

:40:38. > :40:42.books by academics looking at the fact that Hitler signed a deal and

:40:43. > :40:50.worked with the Zionist movement throughout the 1930s. I have not

:40:51. > :40:54.even criticise that. The Zionist movement had to deal with the fact

:40:55. > :40:58.that Hitler was running Germany and if they were going to save the Jews,

:40:59. > :41:01.they would have to do some sort of deal. Are you bothered that by

:41:02. > :41:05.repeating your views you are hurting Jewish people? I said at the time,

:41:06. > :41:10.if anybody has been offended by what I said, I am truly sorry but I have

:41:11. > :41:13.been struck by a number of people who come up to me on the street and

:41:14. > :41:19.say, I am Jewish and I know that what you said is true, do not give

:41:20. > :41:23.into this bullying. The simple fact is that, and the reason I expected

:41:24. > :41:28.that we have waited so long for this hearing, is that the people doing

:41:29. > :41:34.work on this now that it is true. What is sending people, apart from

:41:35. > :41:40.anything else, is the conflating of Hitler with Zionism. I am not

:41:41. > :41:45.conflating Hitler with Zionism. I am simply saying that he did a deal

:41:46. > :41:49.which was signed off about three or four months after he became

:41:50. > :41:54.Germany's Chancellor, and he stuck to that deal right up until 1940.

:41:55. > :42:03.During that period, 66,000 German Jews were moved to Palestine. Also,

:42:04. > :42:07.Adolf Eichmann negotiated a deal with the Zionist movements to give

:42:08. > :42:12.them guns to use in their underground army. He passed a law

:42:13. > :42:17.that the only two flags to be flown in Germany were the swastika and the

:42:18. > :42:21.Star of David. It is not just a one-off thing. There was a working

:42:22. > :42:26.relationship over the 1930s. You cannot blame the Zionists. They were

:42:27. > :42:29.in Germany and they had a horrendous and brutal government that they had

:42:30. > :42:35.no option but to work with. Thank you for your time this morning. Ken

:42:36. > :42:39.Livingstone, former mayor of London and former Labour MP expressing

:42:40. > :42:43.support for his embattled colleague, Keith Vaz, still fighting for his

:42:44. > :42:58.political life and repeating his views that Hitler supported Zionism.

:42:59. > :43:00.Tomorrow, in London, we're holding a big audience programme

:43:01. > :43:04.As you know Junior doctors are not be going on strike

:43:05. > :43:09.But they will be going on strike for a week in a month's time.

:43:10. > :43:11.And then again in another month and so on.

:43:12. > :43:16.just postponed, and tomorrow we want to try and work out how

:43:17. > :43:21.You are very welcome to join us, to take part - whether you're

:43:22. > :43:24.a junior doctor, you work in the NHS, you've been treated

:43:25. > :43:27.in hospital or are going to be affected by the 5-day strikes.

:43:28. > :43:29.If you'd like to be part of the programme to share

:43:30. > :43:31.your views - do email victoria@bbc.co.uk to apply.

:43:32. > :43:33.And hopefully we will see you in the morning. Also tomorrow, the

:43:34. > :43:34.Paralympics start in Rio. The build-up has been fraught with

:43:35. > :43:44.problems. It's been dogged by controversy

:43:45. > :43:47.so far - hardly any tickets have been sold, there have

:43:48. > :43:49.been rows over funding, rows over the classification of how

:43:50. > :43:51.disabled athletes are - which has led to one of Britain's

:43:52. > :43:54.top Paralympic medal hopes - Bethany Woodward - quitting

:43:55. > :43:57.the games and unlike the Olympics, all Russian athletes are banned over

:43:58. > :43:59.allegations of state-run doping. With the London Paralympic Games

:44:00. > :44:01.widely accepted as the best Paralympic Games ever,

:44:02. > :44:03.will Rio disappoint? Or will rivalry in

:44:04. > :44:04.competition overshadow Here's the top ten things we need

:44:05. > :46:46.to know about the games. She was diagnosed with multiple

:46:47. > :46:49.sclerosis in the mid-1990s and took up swimming as part

:46:50. > :46:51.of a physiotherapy to help Also joining us from

:46:52. > :46:56.Coventry is Kester. He's the dad of Charlotte Moore

:46:57. > :47:00.who has been selected for her first Paralympic Games

:47:01. > :47:02.with the wheelchair Charlotte was diagnosed

:47:03. > :47:09.with neuroblastoma, a malignant cancer, when she was

:47:10. > :47:14.just 12-weeks-old. And on the line is Steve,

:47:15. > :47:16.the dad of four-time Paralympic Ellie was born with achondroplasia,

:47:17. > :47:28.a genetic mutation Steve is at Heathrow Airport. You

:47:29. > :47:35.are about to fly off there. How are you feeling? How is Ellie feeling?

:47:36. > :47:40.She's positive and can't wait to get at it at the moment. The last time

:47:41. > :47:46.we had communication with her which was an hour ago! How hopeful is she

:47:47. > :47:51.that she can achieve similar success this time around? Well, she is

:47:52. > :47:55.hopeful. We are all hopeful and we all believe that she can, but she

:47:56. > :48:02.has got the biggest challenge of her swimming career coming up over the

:48:03. > :48:06.next two weeks, I think, this Ukrainian and Australian girl, the

:48:07. > :48:10.Chinese, you never know that they're going to do until they turn up. I

:48:11. > :48:15.think she has got, it will be tough for the next couple of weeks, but

:48:16. > :48:18.she's capable and she will certainly give it everything she has got. Four

:48:19. > :48:24.medals last time and two golds, wasn't it? Yes. Brilliant. Yeah,

:48:25. > :48:28.hopefully she will be. OK. Hopefully she will come back with some.

:48:29. > :48:33.Marcus, hello. Hello. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. How does

:48:34. > :48:38.Jo go from swimming to archery then? It is one of those things. She had a

:48:39. > :48:44.wonderful journey with her swimming and had great success, but I think

:48:45. > :48:48.perhaps the lure and ambition of Paralympics enabled her to start a

:48:49. > :48:52.new journey and head that direction. I think she won European and world

:48:53. > :48:56.medals since going professional? Yeah, she has. She has done very

:48:57. > :49:01.well. It has been a wonderful journey over the last three years

:49:02. > :49:06.and her performans seem to improve constantly and as a result she has

:49:07. > :49:11.been able to win the medals. Chances of getting a medal at the

:49:12. > :49:18.Paralympics in Rio, what do you reckon? It is about her performance

:49:19. > :49:22.and as long as she delivers the performance that she has been doing

:49:23. > :49:26.over the last three years, she will be in the shake-up at the end and

:49:27. > :49:31.that's what she has been doing in all the training. Do you get

:49:32. > :49:35.together as a family? Is there a big family when she is competing? We

:49:36. > :49:40.catch up whenever we can and we caught up before she left for Rio

:49:41. > :49:43.and like everybody else, we're staying in contact through

:49:44. > :49:50.electronic means and she is down at Rio now and I saw lovely pictures of

:49:51. > :49:59.the area they will be shooting in, in the coming weeks. Tell us about

:50:00. > :50:03.Charlotte, your daughter? Yes, Charlotte was diagnosed with neuro

:50:04. > :50:09.blast tomb ma when she was very young, when she was a baby. She has

:50:10. > :50:11.been very active. We took her along to a wheelchair tennis camp when she

:50:12. > :50:15.was four-and-a-half and she loved it. She was playing around and

:50:16. > :50:21.starting to hit the ball at a young age. So she started playing

:50:22. > :50:25.wheelchair tennis and ended up racing when she was five or six when

:50:26. > :50:31.she did some racing and she carried on doing those two sports and ended

:50:32. > :50:40.up joining, she was on the Great Britain Junior programme for tennis

:50:41. > :50:44.and was, she won the London, the Virgin London Wheelchair Mini

:50:45. > :50:49.Marathon with her racing, she was a good racer and good tennis player.

:50:50. > :50:56.Then she started playing wheelchair basketball when she was eight. She

:50:57. > :51:01.played for the local team in Coventry, Coventry Crusaders and got

:51:02. > :51:04.spotted by the British wheelchair basketball set-up and it progressed

:51:05. > :51:11.from there, playing for Great Britain at the age of 14, I think,

:51:12. > :51:13.she was in 2013, playing out in Frankfurt was her first major

:51:14. > :51:22.international at the Europeans there. I don't know if you heard

:51:23. > :51:26.about Bethany Woodward who was a London 2012 silver medallist, I'll

:51:27. > :51:29.ask all of you this, she claimed more able-bodied athletes are being

:51:30. > :51:33.wrongly classified to boost medal prospects. Steve, have you heard

:51:34. > :51:46.about this? What's your view on this? Well, there is certainly a lot

:51:47. > :51:51.in the swimming press about it causing misinformation and there is

:51:52. > :51:54.certainly a lot written about it and there have been one or two

:51:55. > :52:01.high-profile incidents of it, I think. I'm sure it happens, but I

:52:02. > :52:04.don't think, certainly from Eleanor's point of view, I don't

:52:05. > :52:10.think there is anything that affects her, but I think it happens, but it

:52:11. > :52:15.is just part of disability sport or Paralympic sport, I guess. Right.

:52:16. > :52:21.But it is not good, but it certainly seems to be out there. Marcus, is it

:52:22. > :52:26.part of Paralympic sport? I think like everything, there has to be a

:52:27. > :52:32.process of classifying everybody and a lot of work is done to make these

:52:33. > :52:37.systems as fair and as detailed as they possibly can. To have that

:52:38. > :52:46.level playing field for all the athletes. Always though, I think at

:52:47. > :52:50.all Olympics historically there are small issues that come up. It is

:52:51. > :52:53.unfortunate for the athlete, hopefully it doesn't have an impact

:52:54. > :53:00.on the athletes that are competing and they are able to enjoy what a

:53:01. > :53:04.wonderful spectacle of theoriy Paralympics. What about you Keser?

:53:05. > :53:08.It is a difficult one. If I think about wheelchair basketball, it is

:53:09. > :53:14.classifications from a one-point player which is a player carrying

:53:15. > :53:22.the most disability if you like, the least function, right through to 4.5

:53:23. > :53:26.which is a player who is reasonably able-bodied with one disability, but

:53:27. > :53:31.nothing affecting their spine or their trunk, but it is a range. It

:53:32. > :53:35.is a spectrum and within classification point, there is a

:53:36. > :53:41.one-point player, the difference between a one-point player and a 1.5

:53:42. > :53:44.or a two, it has to be a change and you're always going to have a player

:53:45. > :53:49.at the bottom of the range and a player at the top and a number of

:53:50. > :53:54.players in the middle and it can be difficult for the class fires, I

:53:55. > :53:58.think, to know exactly what they're looking at and if somebody wants to

:53:59. > :54:02.try and cheat the system, hopefully they can't if there is the right

:54:03. > :54:06.review panel in place and they've got the right evidence apart from

:54:07. > :54:11.observing the player on and off the court, but looking at good medical

:54:12. > :54:16.records as well and trying to make a judgment, but I think it is

:54:17. > :54:20.difficult. It is a spectrum, but trying to achieve a level playing

:54:21. > :54:23.field is never easy and I suppose you're always going to have

:54:24. > :54:27.controversial cases, you know, at either end of the spectrum really.

:54:28. > :54:32.Listen, thank you all so much. Thank you, Marcus. Thank you Kester, thank

:54:33. > :54:38.you Steve and good luck to Jo and Charlotte and Ellie. Thank you.

:54:39. > :54:44.Throughout the programme today seven-year-olds Helen,

:54:45. > :54:47.Bea and Lottie and Kit have been reading a new series of JK

:54:48. > :54:50.Rowling short stories out today...which feature some

:54:51. > :54:58.of her characters from Hogwart's School of Witchcraft and Wizardy.

:54:59. > :55:04.It feels like days ago now kids. How is it going, Kit? It is going very

:55:05. > :55:12.well. Can you say that with more enthusiasm? The book is very good.

:55:13. > :55:19.Tell me the book you're reading? It is an uncomplete and unreliable

:55:20. > :55:23.guide to Hogwarts it goes into all the in-depth bits which really

:55:24. > :55:30.serious fans will want to know, you know, how that was made, how JK got

:55:31. > :55:37.the idea for that and for further into the book it explains the

:55:38. > :55:43.Philosopher's Stone, how that's an actual thing and not something she

:55:44. > :55:56.made up. It really exists? She took the idea from alcamy. Have you

:55:57. > :55:59.enjoyed it? Yeah, I have enjoyed and it is definitely interesting because

:56:00. > :56:04.it answers the questions, some of the fans might have about the book.

:56:05. > :56:09.I think it is really good actually. Have you reached the end? Yes. Mark

:56:10. > :56:17.out of ten? As a moderate fan it is a good eight. But if you're serious,

:56:18. > :56:23.you need to read all three probably! How have you been doing Lottie?

:56:24. > :56:30.Good. Last time we spoke you were up to 30%. I read two books. Two books!

:56:31. > :56:36.You are pulling my leg Lottie! There is no way you've read two books in

:56:37. > :56:51.an hour. She has. Seriously! What did you think? Good. Which one did

:56:52. > :57:07.you prefer? Mm. It was the... No, it was that one. Hog wart's Of Heroism.

:57:08. > :57:18.I'm on 98%. Perfect timing. What do you reckon? Really good. Can you

:57:19. > :57:22.give me your best bit or not? No. Helen, how has it been for you this

:57:23. > :57:26.morning? Have you spent better mornings in your classroom at

:57:27. > :57:30.school? LAUGHTER

:57:31. > :57:35.Have you enjoyed the book? Yeah, OK. So in terms of real Harry Potter

:57:36. > :57:40.fans, these are perfect. Do you not ever think, enough of Harry Potter.

:57:41. > :57:45.They don't half carry it on and cash it on it? I mean, it is a series

:57:46. > :57:53.that's been going and going, you've got games and movies. It has been

:57:54. > :57:57.very successful, but at the point of view of a reader, it is amazing. It

:57:58. > :58:04.has got so big, that just shows how good it is and how entrancing it is.

:58:05. > :58:08.I guess it deserves the praise it has got and with the carry on like

:58:09. > :58:13.these, I don't know if there will be more books, possibly, yeah, I think

:58:14. > :58:20.we should carry on. If you are wondering how they are allowed to be

:58:21. > :58:25.here, their teachers are on an in-set day! Thank you very much for

:58:26. > :58:29.watching today. We are having a debate tomorrow on

:58:30. > :58:33.junior doctors, do join us then. BUZZER

:58:34. > :58:35.Top Class.