24/10/2016

:00:07. > :00:15.Our top story today: The clear-out at the so-called Jungle camp

:00:16. > :00:31.Some migrants are saying they'll refuse to leave.

:00:32. > :00:39.I will not move one inch from here. Why? I just have one hope, to get to

:00:40. > :00:41.the UK. We'll be live in Calais and bring

:00:42. > :00:44.you all the details. Also on the programme:

:00:45. > :00:56.The heartache of losing a baby I am Jack, I am 22 years old, and I

:00:57. > :00:57.have written a blog on how it has been as a father losing two children

:00:58. > :01:00.this year. We'll hear Jack's

:01:01. > :01:02.full story coming up. And a Christian bakery,

:01:03. > :01:04.found to have broken the law by refusing to bake a cake

:01:05. > :01:07.with a pro-gay marriage slogan on it, will learn the outcome

:01:08. > :01:09.of its appeal today. Throughout the programme we'll keep

:01:10. > :01:23.you up to date with developments in Calais as the clean-up

:01:24. > :01:25.of the so-called Plus we'll hear from someone who's

:01:26. > :01:31.campaigning to raise funds for the woman at the centre

:01:32. > :01:34.of the Ched Evans rape case. Ched Evans was of course found

:01:35. > :01:37.not guilty at a retrial Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:38. > :01:42.we're talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:01:43. > :01:45.and if you text, you will be charged Our top story today: Hundreds

:01:46. > :01:49.of French police officers and officials have started clearing

:01:50. > :01:52.the migrant camp in Calais Several thousand people have been

:01:53. > :01:58.living there while trying to cross This morning, many have been

:01:59. > :02:02.queueing to register to be taken to other parts of France

:02:03. > :02:04.where they can apply for asylum. They started queueing from early

:02:05. > :02:13.morning, patiently and orderly, the sort of start to the process

:02:14. > :02:17.that the authorities had hoped for. Already the fleet

:02:18. > :02:19.of buses has arrived. Hundreds of migrants have decided

:02:20. > :02:26.they will move elsewhere. But last night there was some

:02:27. > :02:28.violence, as there often Minor skirmishes broke out as some

:02:29. > :02:33.migrants started dismantling the camp themselves,

:02:34. > :02:36.setting fire to toilet cubicles. Over the last two years,

:02:37. > :02:45.the Jungle has been a magnet for determined migrants coming

:02:46. > :02:47.from as far away as Afghanistan, This was their last stop in a hope

:02:48. > :02:56.for a better life on UK soil. For many, those hopes will end

:02:57. > :02:59.when dozens of buses arrive to transport thousands to regional

:03:00. > :03:03.shelters across France. Leaflets have been handed

:03:04. > :03:05.out notifying people This hangar has been prepared

:03:06. > :03:13.to process names before an estimated 7000 people are moved out

:03:14. > :03:17.of here in the coming days. Over the weekend, bus-loads

:03:18. > :03:20.of unaccompanied children arrived in the UK to be reunited

:03:21. > :03:22.with family members, French authorities say

:03:23. > :03:29.they don't want to use any Those who try and stay have been

:03:30. > :03:37.warned to expect police intervention but there is concern that some

:03:38. > :03:41.will refuse to abandon their hope of making it across the Channel

:03:42. > :03:54.and there is a risk unofficial camps We can go live to Panay now and join

:03:55. > :04:00.our correspondent Simon Jones. What is happening now? -- Calais. The

:04:01. > :04:03.queues are continuing to build up. That building over there is the

:04:04. > :04:07.hangar where people have come to register and there has been a long

:04:08. > :04:17.line of people. People waiting for a number of hours, before the process

:04:18. > :04:20.began. Just down there, short walk away, the Jungle. People have been

:04:21. > :04:26.steadily streaming down from the Jungle to begin the registration

:04:27. > :04:29.process. We actually saw the first coaches leaving about 40 minutes

:04:30. > :04:32.after the gates opened, so there is a real attempt here to get people

:04:33. > :04:37.through the system quickly. They are going into the hangar and

:04:38. > :04:40.registering depending on groups, whether they are men, young

:04:41. > :04:44.children, considered to be vulnerable, and then they are

:04:45. > :04:52.getting bust out in a matter of half an hour or so. The aim is during the

:04:53. > :04:55.course of the day to get around 3000 people out. The police are just

:04:56. > :05:01.heading up here towards the Jungle but I don't know why. That might

:05:02. > :05:07.suggest tension here. Police are retaining a strong presence here.

:05:08. > :05:10.1250 police officers are part of the operation. If you are talking about

:05:11. > :05:14.potentially moving 10,000 migrants from the Jungle, you get an idea why

:05:15. > :05:19.so many police officers are needed, and why there are so many officials

:05:20. > :05:24.here as part of the process. Our many saying that they will hold out

:05:25. > :05:27.and they will not leave? I have spent the past week or so in the

:05:28. > :05:33.Jungle and some are saying that they do not want to leave the Calais

:05:34. > :05:37.area. Some are saying they may well attempt to stay in the Jungle even

:05:38. > :05:40.when the bulldozers arrive but others are telling me they might

:05:41. > :05:44.decide to sleep rough in Calais or moved to other towns in northern

:05:45. > :05:47.France, because they don't want to move away from Calais and the

:05:48. > :05:52.potential to get to the UK, because of course that is the dream for many

:05:53. > :05:56.of the migrants, to get across the channel to the UK. It is all very

:05:57. > :06:00.well getting on a coach to the south of France, but that doesn't take

:06:01. > :06:04.them any closer to their dream. I have been talking to the spokesman

:06:05. > :06:09.for the Interior Minister. He says he is pretty satisfied with the way

:06:10. > :06:12.things are going. They have got more police officers over there to give

:06:13. > :06:17.you an idea of the security and how they are trying to make sure this

:06:18. > :06:21.passes off peacefully. We have seen some argy-bargy from time to time,

:06:22. > :06:26.people jostling for position in the queue. But so far it has been calm.

:06:27. > :06:29.Last night there were more skirmishes and problems going on in

:06:30. > :06:33.the Jungle. Police are just monitoring the situation and making

:06:34. > :06:37.sure things are passing off peacefully. I think the authorities

:06:38. > :06:40.are pretty satisfied with the way it has been going, but they haven't

:06:41. > :06:43.given a figure yet on how many people have been processed. We are

:06:44. > :06:55.certainly talking about hundreds and hundreds of people who have

:06:56. > :06:59.turned up this morning to begin the process of getting on buses and

:07:00. > :07:02.moving out of Calais. Thank you. We will keep you updated on what is

:07:03. > :07:03.going on there throughout the programme. Now Julian has the rest

:07:04. > :07:04.of the news. A British banker has pleaded not

:07:05. > :07:06.guilty to murdering two Indonesian women in Hong Kong,

:07:07. > :07:09.on grounds of diminished Prosecutors rejected an attempt

:07:10. > :07:12.by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty plea on the lesser

:07:13. > :07:14.charge of manslaughter. The bodies of the Indonesian

:07:15. > :07:16.women were found at his Rurik Jutting who's 31,

:07:17. > :07:20.faces life in prison if convicted in what is being described

:07:21. > :07:22.as Hong Kong's biggest Five people are believed to have

:07:23. > :07:28.died when a light aircraft reported to be carrying senior EU

:07:29. > :07:31.border officials crashed shortly The crash happened at

:07:32. > :07:37.Malta's International Airport as the flight was heading

:07:38. > :07:39.for the Libyan city of Misrata. It's thought some of

:07:40. > :07:54.the passengers are from the EU's The Border Agency has not yet

:07:55. > :07:56.confirmed whether any of its staff were on board.

:07:57. > :07:59.A man has been arrested after a three-day stand off

:08:00. > :08:01.with armed police in West London ended when police stormed

:08:02. > :08:05.Officers were called to a property in Northolt on Friday morning

:08:06. > :08:07.following reports that a man was in possession of large

:08:08. > :08:11.Around 80 people living nearby were evacuated from their homes.

:08:12. > :08:13.Police say a 46 year old man has been arrested on suspicion

:08:14. > :08:17.of cultivating cannabis and offences under the explosives act.

:08:18. > :08:19.Senior doctors have listed 40 treatments and procedures

:08:20. > :08:23.which they say offer little or no benefit to patients.

:08:24. > :08:27.They include X rays for lower back pain and plaster casts for children

:08:28. > :08:32.The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges says it wants to cut down

:08:33. > :08:34.on the number of unnecessary treatments being carried

:08:35. > :08:42.There's an increasing debate on what's being called

:08:43. > :08:44.overdiagnosis and overtreatment and whether there's too much

:08:45. > :08:51.It comes at a time of increasing pressure on NHS finances.

:08:52. > :08:53.The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges asked members around the UK

:08:54. > :08:55.for a list of unnecessary remedies and treatments.

:08:56. > :09:03.The list of those said to bring little or no benefit includes:

:09:04. > :09:06.Plaster casts for children's small wrist fractures.

:09:07. > :09:09.The use of saline solution to clean cuts and grazes -

:09:10. > :09:14.tap water is said to be just as good.

:09:15. > :09:23.Routine screening for prostate cancer using the so-called PSA test

:09:24. > :09:25.is said by those consulted not to extend people's lives.

:09:26. > :09:29.Some of these treatments can be quite invasive, time-consuming.

:09:30. > :09:32.There are simpler and as safe options, so why wouldn't you?

:09:33. > :09:35.Because what we've got is a culture of we can do something therefore

:09:36. > :09:39.We need to stop and reflect and decide what is the best

:09:40. > :09:44.option for the patient in their individual circumstances.

:09:45. > :09:46.The Academy is urging patients not to make excessive demands

:09:47. > :09:48.for medical intervention and doctors to consider which treatments

:09:49. > :09:55.The aim being to make the best use of doctors' time and NHS resources.

:09:56. > :10:02.The Prime Minister is holding talks about Brexit this morning

:10:03. > :10:05.with the three leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

:10:06. > :10:07.It's the first meeting of the Joint Ministerial Council

:10:08. > :10:12.Theresa May has pledged to involve the three devolved governments

:10:13. > :10:18.in regular formal talks on the process of leaving the EU.

:10:19. > :10:20.The First Ministers of Scotland and Wales have said the devolved

:10:21. > :10:25.administrations must be treated as equal partners.

:10:26. > :10:31.An undercover BBC investigation has discovered that Syrian refugee

:10:32. > :10:34.children have been making clothes for British retailers

:10:35. > :10:42.The Panorama programme found that children without work permits had

:10:43. > :10:44.been working on products for Marks Spencer

:10:45. > :10:52.The brands say they do not tolerate exploitation or child labour.

:10:53. > :10:59.A judgment is due later today on an appeal by a Belfast bakery

:11:00. > :11:02.which was found to have unlawfully discriminated against a gay man.

:11:03. > :11:04.Two years ago, the Christian owners

:11:05. > :11:09.to make a cake carrying the slogan "support gay marriage."

:11:10. > :11:12.A judge ruled they had broken discrimination laws.

:11:13. > :11:17.The case was then taken to the Belfast Court of Appeal.

:11:18. > :11:26.That is a summary of the latest BBC News. We will have more at 9:30am.

:11:27. > :11:29.In the next few minutes we will be talking to 22-year-old Jack David

:11:30. > :11:35.and his partner Leanne, who lost two babies in the course of a year. Jack

:11:36. > :11:44.has written a blog on the impact it has had on him. Do get in touch with

:11:45. > :11:50.your thoughts on that and we will be talking to them both after the

:11:51. > :11:55.sport. But first, the cricket. England have won the first test

:11:56. > :12:00.against Bangladesh in the last few hours. Yes, and what an exciting and

:12:01. > :12:03.it was to that game against Bangladesh with just 22 runs in it.

:12:04. > :12:08.You have got to feel for Bangladesh because they only had to get 33 runs

:12:09. > :12:12.to record their first ever test win over England but they only managed

:12:13. > :12:16.to add ten to their overnight score. Ben Stokes celebrating those final

:12:17. > :12:21.two wickets. Fitting since he was man of the match thanks to those

:12:22. > :12:25.final two wickets in the second innings and also four late wickets

:12:26. > :12:30.in the second innings and 84 runs on the bat for him. A vital part of

:12:31. > :12:35.England's victory. The next test starts on Friday. And in football,

:12:36. > :12:39.not the return to Chelsea that Jose Mourinho would have wanted.

:12:40. > :12:46.Humiliated is the word the newspapers have gone for 4-0 was the

:12:47. > :12:54.score against his former club. Pedro, Hazard, and it is their

:12:55. > :12:57.heaviest defeat. Humiliation was the main emotion for Manchester United

:12:58. > :13:01.according to the newspapers and that is because of this exchange. During

:13:02. > :13:05.that exchange apparently Jose Mourinho were saying that Antonio

:13:06. > :13:10.Conte had humiliated Manchester United by whipping up the fans when

:13:11. > :13:17.they scored that fourth goal. A bit of who harboured between Antonio

:13:18. > :13:20.Conte and Jose Mourinho. -- a bit of fuss. It is his heaviest ever

:13:21. > :13:25.Premier League defeat and he later apologised to the Manchester United

:13:26. > :13:29.fans for that performance. Manchester City are top of the

:13:30. > :13:33.Premier League. They only managed a 1-1 draw against Southampton.

:13:34. > :13:38.Southampton scored first fact that mistake by stones. City fans booed

:13:39. > :13:43.them off at half-time but they managed to pull back an equaliser.

:13:44. > :13:47.City are top of the league but they will have to do better to stay

:13:48. > :13:52.there. Five games without a win for City. And another old firm derby in

:13:53. > :13:56.Scotland. It is always a big occasion when Celtic play Rangers.

:13:57. > :14:01.They met in the league earlier this month, with Celtic coming out on top

:14:02. > :14:04.5-1 and they came out on top yesterday. Mousa Dembele scored the

:14:05. > :14:08.only goal to clinch the win for Celtic, meaning they go through to

:14:09. > :14:12.the final of the Scottish League Cup where they play Aberdeen. A chance

:14:13. > :14:16.for Brendan Rodgers to get his first piece of silverware in charge of

:14:17. > :14:20.Celtic. And a landmark win for Lewis Hamilton in the United States Grand

:14:21. > :14:25.Prix. Yes, the 50th of his career. Remarkable, really. And a vital win

:14:26. > :14:30.to keep alive his hopes of winning the World Championship and retaining

:14:31. > :14:33.his title. He beat his team-mate and championship leader Nico Rosberg

:14:34. > :14:39.into second place. The gap between the two of them is cut to 26 points,

:14:40. > :14:44.with 75 left for the taking for the rest of the season. Just three races

:14:45. > :14:47.left. The bad news for Lewis Hamilton fans is that Nico Rosberg

:14:48. > :14:51.can win the World Championship if he comes second to Lewis Hamilton in

:14:52. > :14:55.every race left of the season. Lewis Hamilton is really up against it if

:14:56. > :14:59.he wants to retain his world title. Thank you very much.

:15:00. > :15:02."Walking out of that hospital without a little boy to go back

:15:03. > :15:06.to or take home was the meaning of emptiness I want to let people

:15:07. > :15:09.know that during the loss of a child, it's not just the woman

:15:10. > :15:14.The words of 22-year-old Jack Davis who has

:15:15. > :15:17.had to deal with the loss of two babies within 12 months.

:15:18. > :15:20.He's written a searing account of how it feels to be a dad dealing

:15:21. > :15:24.When he posted it on Facebook, he had no idea how well it

:15:25. > :15:28.It has been shared thousands of times and Jack is receiving

:15:29. > :15:31.messages from men and women across the country thanking him

:15:32. > :15:35.Jack and his partner Leanne McGregor are with us now for their first ever

:15:36. > :15:38.interview and during the interview Jack and Leanne are comfortable

:15:39. > :15:40.with us showing pictures of Joey and Tommy -

:15:41. > :15:44.you may find some of them distressing.

:15:45. > :15:54.Thank you both thech indeed for coming in. Jack, it is a beautifully

:15:55. > :16:00.written blog. Heartbreaking. Why did you decide to write it? I was at my

:16:01. > :16:04.room at work within the Army. I didn't know how to get things off my

:16:05. > :16:07.chest in the sense. I didn't really want to speak to somebody

:16:08. > :16:11.face-to-face and Leanne mentioned maybe you can write it down. I

:16:12. > :16:15.wasn't too keen on the idea. I had a go at it and since then it has taken

:16:16. > :16:19.off. Why do you think you found it

:16:20. > :16:25.difficult to express yourself? I think because over the past year

:16:26. > :16:28.everything had happened, I was so focussed on looking after Leanne and

:16:29. > :16:34.making sure she was all right, I didn't want to show her that I was

:16:35. > :16:39.weak or maybe as down as she was. That might have affected her more. I

:16:40. > :16:43.kept everythinged in of myself and bottled it up and this was a good

:16:44. > :16:48.way of getting it out. So you felt you had to be strong? That's it. You

:16:49. > :16:53.talk very clearly about what you both went through, the loss first of

:16:54. > :16:58.all of Joey when Leanne went into labour at 22 weeks. Correct, yeah.

:16:59. > :17:06.When that happened, and you realised that you were going down this

:17:07. > :17:10.terrible path, how did you react? I mean, I wasn't really sure at first.

:17:11. > :17:14.It was such a shock. I had to rush home from work after the phone call

:17:15. > :17:20.I got from Leanne saying she was in pain and by the time I got there,

:17:21. > :17:24.there was an ambulance. As a young man 21 years at the time and Leanne

:17:25. > :17:31.21 years old, it was our first child, we didn't know what was going

:17:32. > :17:35.on. I had an idea about halfs going to happen, but I wasn't sure how to

:17:36. > :17:42.react. It was a case of doing what people said, get to the hospital. Do

:17:43. > :17:48.what the doctors say and go with it, but it was heartbreaking. We knew

:17:49. > :17:53.the inevitable. With it being our first child, it had such an impact

:17:54. > :17:58.on us even if we wanted to try again of the In the blog you say, "We just

:17:59. > :18:03.got told when we were both 21. We were about to say hello and goodbye

:18:04. > :18:07.to our first child. That's the true meaning of pain. That's the true

:18:08. > :18:12.meaning of heartbreak." It was, we were so ready to be parents. Even at

:18:13. > :18:16.a young age once we found out that Leanne was pregnant. We were just,

:18:17. > :18:21.we suddenly grew upment we matured a lot more. That that we were in an

:18:22. > :18:27.immature stage, but we matured we're going to be parents and to be hold

:18:28. > :18:32.you're not going to be parents. I'm not sure how anybody is supposed to

:18:33. > :18:35.deal with that. To go from being so happy and elated about having your

:18:36. > :18:38.own child and doing all the things that you're meant to do as a parent

:18:39. > :18:41.and finding out that's been taken away from you. It is not happening

:18:42. > :18:45.anymore. I don't know how you're supposed to

:18:46. > :18:50.react to that, but we did and we kind of just got on with things.

:18:51. > :18:54.Leanne, you're both going through obviously just a terrible trauma

:18:55. > :18:58.together, reacting differently, everybody reacts differently to

:18:59. > :19:03.trauma. Were you aware, did you feel that Jack was bottling things up?

:19:04. > :19:08.Yeah. Obviously like when I asked him how he was, he would say, "I'm

:19:09. > :19:14.fine." When I really knew that he wasn't, but he just wouldn't open up

:19:15. > :19:20.to me at all. And were you able to express yourself? Yeah. Easily, but

:19:21. > :19:25.that's like a woman's way of dealing with things whereas a man's way is

:19:26. > :19:31.just being strong. Did it concern you that he wasn't

:19:32. > :19:36.speaking about it? Yeah. Yeah. Because he's normally an open

:19:37. > :19:38.person, but seeing him like that, not talking and just isolating

:19:39. > :19:58.himself, it wasn't nice to watch. Once you open up, it makes you more

:19:59. > :20:02.vulnerable? I figured once I started opening up and let mying guard down

:20:03. > :20:07.and showing my emotions, I figured it will allow more things into my

:20:08. > :20:10.life and more people that I don't know and more pain to come from it,

:20:11. > :20:13.because I will really start thinking about it and this is what you've

:20:14. > :20:16.been through. You're hurting more than you think. I didn't want to get

:20:17. > :20:20.to that stage until I knew Leanne was all right. There is no time

:20:21. > :20:24.frame on grieving. So I kind of, yeah, I just bottled it up. So

:20:25. > :20:31.Leanne, when you read the blog, what did you think about how Jack had

:20:32. > :20:35.been feeling? It opened my eyes because I knew he was hurting, but I

:20:36. > :20:39.didn't think he was hurting that much and to see it and see how much

:20:40. > :20:43.we've been through because we know, we both know how much we've been

:20:44. > :20:50.through, but reading it, it broke my heart, but I'm glad that he wrote

:20:51. > :20:54.it. You lost Joey which was unimaginable. And then you say in

:20:55. > :20:58.the blog Jack that you decided that you having gone through that, you

:20:59. > :21:04.went through the horror of his funeral. You decided you needed to

:21:05. > :21:07.get normality in your lives and went back to work and didn't want to talk

:21:08. > :21:14.about it and Leanne you fell pregnant. Sadly Tommy was born

:21:15. > :21:19.prematurely. When you went through that again, well, no one can really

:21:20. > :21:24.imagine how you both dealt with it. What happened? Well, Tommy was a

:21:25. > :21:29.couple of weeks older in terms of growth. So Tommy was 24 weeks. So

:21:30. > :21:34.when we got told, we didn't even get told that you were going into labour

:21:35. > :21:38.until she was in labour. After Joey, once we found out that Leanne was

:21:39. > :21:42.pregnant again, the doctors recommended that we should get

:21:43. > :21:46.cervix scrans on Leanne and if it is going to cause any damage or

:21:47. > :21:50.anything like that. Eventually in pregnancies, a lot of women have

:21:51. > :21:53.something called a stitch on the cervix to stop any complications of

:21:54. > :21:57.premature births and things like that. We were getting these scans

:21:58. > :22:01.and everything was fine and it was growing fine. Shrunk again and it

:22:02. > :22:06.was growing fine and then we went on holiday for a week after finding out

:22:07. > :22:09.actually you're in a good enough position, it shouldn't affect

:22:10. > :22:14.anything. We came back from the holiday and Leanne went into pain on

:22:15. > :22:18.a Friday morning, I think it was, and they said we'll speak to your

:22:19. > :22:22.consultant because she is the woman that's going to decide if you're

:22:23. > :22:27.going to get this stitch, this operation, and that was booked in

:22:28. > :22:31.for the next day. We went home happy knowing we had that appointment, but

:22:32. > :22:35.that night we had to come back into hospital because Leanne was in pain.

:22:36. > :22:40.An ambulance was called and we were told she was in labour. It was more

:22:41. > :22:46.of a shock than anything and everything was coming back from the

:22:47. > :22:50.first time. It is heartbreaking thinking we're going to have to go

:22:51. > :22:54.through this again. With him being 24 weeks we knew he had a little bit

:22:55. > :23:00.hope. With Joey being 22 weeks, there is not much of a survival rate

:23:01. > :23:05.if any for a baby at that stage. 24 weeks there is minimal chance. So we

:23:06. > :23:09.had something to hope for. We went from there. You say obviously you

:23:10. > :23:13.wanted to be strong for Leanne, but you say in the blog as well how

:23:14. > :23:21.proud you have been of Leanne? Yeah, definitely. Wonder woman. I don't

:23:22. > :23:25.know how women having to watch the person I love the most going through

:23:26. > :23:29.it herself, not just pregnancy, but having to go through pregnancy

:23:30. > :23:36.knowing there is complications. It just beats me. I can't imagine how

:23:37. > :23:39.she went through it and I understand that she needed me there and I did

:23:40. > :23:43.everything I could as a man. Sometimes it is words. It is so

:23:44. > :23:47.nerve-wracking and you don't know what to say or do except be there

:23:48. > :23:51.and no, she did amazing. I was really proud of her. To go through

:23:52. > :23:58.it twice as well, her body being pushed to the limits and absolutely

:23:59. > :24:01.breath taken by it. How have people around you reacted because

:24:02. > :24:04.obviously, your loved ones will just want to be looking after you,

:24:05. > :24:10.protecting you, how have people done that? Yeah, of course, I mean,

:24:11. > :24:15.they've come to us from all angles really. They have offered us support

:24:16. > :24:20.here, support there, a chat, they are there. And they understand the

:24:21. > :24:22.support is there not just from my family and friends, but everyone.

:24:23. > :24:26.We're getting messages from everybody that we don't know and

:24:27. > :24:31.they are telling us stories and what they have been through and offering

:24:32. > :24:36.us support and... When people are talking to you both, Leanne you were

:24:37. > :24:41.sort of able to speak more openly and Jack, you weren't or didn't want

:24:42. > :24:44.to. Would people sort of feel like they should be talking to you as

:24:45. > :24:50.well or was the focus more... I think. They focussed more on

:24:51. > :24:55.Leanne... Is that because you're pushing away? I think so, yeah. You

:24:56. > :25:00.talk in the blog about a stigma around male grief? When something

:25:01. > :25:05.like this happens, a tragedy like this, or even just a normal

:25:06. > :25:08.pregnancy, the main focus is the woman because she has delivered the

:25:09. > :25:11.baby. She carried the baby for nine months. People forget there is a man

:25:12. > :25:15.there supporting that woman. There is a man there that's got to go

:25:16. > :25:26.through this as well. It is not just the mother who lost her child, it is

:25:27. > :25:31.a father as well. Man up, get over it. It is not like that. Men hurt.

:25:32. > :25:35.Men have feelings. Men feel everything a woman feels except the

:25:36. > :25:39.physical side of carrying a baby, but yeah, I think, it got pushed

:25:40. > :25:43.towards Leanne, but I helped push it along that way because I didn't want

:25:44. > :25:46.to talk. I didn't want to open up. I didn't really want to face anybody

:25:47. > :25:50.and I wanted to get on with things and be that man and be that

:25:51. > :25:53.stereotype and bottle it all up until I realised that I couldn't

:25:54. > :25:57.anymore. And now people have started coming to me more, but I think the

:25:58. > :26:03.majority of it was how is Leanne doing? People would message me, "Hi,

:26:04. > :26:07.how is Leanne?" I would get upset, she's fine, but what about me? I'm

:26:08. > :26:14.hurting too. One of the things that you talk about is what people

:26:15. > :26:19.shouldn't say. Yes, definitely. This comes more from Leanne. It opened my

:26:20. > :26:25.eye to say it. People would say, "You'll be fine, you'll get over it.

:26:26. > :26:29.Can't you just try again. You think if you get pregnant you think it

:26:30. > :26:33.will happen again." To me, it didn't affect me as much until I really

:26:34. > :26:37.seen halfs happening to Leanne once they said these things. It is

:26:38. > :26:40.heartbreaking, you don't want these questions, you want normalitiment

:26:41. > :26:44.you don't want people to look at you... You want people to

:26:45. > :26:47.understand, don't you? Putting the blog out there, it gives people an

:26:48. > :26:51.understanding of what you've been through. Yeah, I mean, that's it.

:26:52. > :26:55.The blog for me, it was just something, a way of meet getting it

:26:56. > :27:00.off my chest without having to face anybody, but at the same time,

:27:01. > :27:03.people have understood it. From my point of view and I think a lot of

:27:04. > :27:08.people had a different outlook on what it is like to be a father or

:27:09. > :27:13.even as a couple to have lost two children. Even one child is bad

:27:14. > :27:16.enough. But having lost two children. I think there is a

:27:17. > :27:20.different outlook now the blog is out there. Lots of people are

:27:21. > :27:23.getting in touch watching you both here this morning, Stewart said,

:27:24. > :27:27."Well done, Jack. Important the media understand men face issues and

:27:28. > :27:31.respect to both of you for finding the strength to talk about it."

:27:32. > :27:35.Willie on Facebook, "Well done Jack. A very brave thing to do. I was a

:27:36. > :27:39.soldier when I lost my daughter at the age of 22. I hope the Army gave

:27:40. > :27:42.you all the support you needed. This is a taboo subject and harder for a

:27:43. > :27:46.dad given that we're all supposed to be strong." What's been the reaction

:27:47. > :27:49.with everybody around you in the military? It is general support.

:27:50. > :27:53.They're doing everything they can from their point of view.

:27:54. > :27:59.Unfortunately, it is one of those jobs where it is 24/7. It doesn't

:28:00. > :28:02.stop. But the support that I've got from the military has been

:28:03. > :28:06.outstanding. The welfare that they have put in place and the come

:28:07. > :28:10.fashion nat side of things, it has been unbelievable. I had never seen

:28:11. > :28:17.that side of the military before and I don't think you are meant to do

:28:18. > :28:22.until you need it. Talking doesn't make you weak, but sometimes people

:28:23. > :28:25.think it does? Be a soldier and get your boots on and go. The biggest

:28:26. > :28:29.thing is talking. If you don't talk, you bottle things up. It is a lonely

:28:30. > :28:32.world as well sometimes because you are away from your family and you

:28:33. > :28:38.are away from your friends and loved ones, but that's the life you chose,

:28:39. > :28:41.but no, they are helping amazingly for me and they've offered support

:28:42. > :28:44.for Leanne and everything. So it is not just me they're looking

:28:45. > :28:48.afterment they are brilliant. Yeah. Lots of people are asking us to

:28:49. > :28:51.share a link to the blog and I should say we've tweeted it and put

:28:52. > :28:57.it on Facebook as well so people can see the blog. In terms of you

:28:58. > :29:00.supporting each other, you said that sometimes you don't, it is not

:29:01. > :29:04.necessarily about saying, it is just being there. Leanne, what is the

:29:05. > :29:08.best thing that you can do for each other? Just make sure each other is

:29:09. > :29:13.all right even if it is just asking how each other is. At least, one

:29:14. > :29:17.time, one time a day. Just being there and knowing that at the end of

:29:18. > :29:25.the day if I need a cuddle, he's there. Simon says, "Well done Jack

:29:26. > :29:30.and Leanne for talking about this. I can't begin to imagine that level of

:29:31. > :29:37.pain." Eric says, "Credit to you both." Lucy says, "This young man

:29:38. > :29:41.speaking on behalf of his parten is beautiful." Thank you for coming in.

:29:42. > :29:42.Thank you very much. It is making a difference. People hearing you

:29:43. > :29:47.speak. Thank you. Thank you. Still to come, you've just heard

:29:48. > :29:49.Jack bravely speaking out about his traumatic experience

:29:50. > :29:56.of losing two baby boys and his trips to the hospital to

:29:57. > :29:59.visit Tommy in the neo-natal unit. Later in the programme,

:30:00. > :30:01.we'll hear from mothers of premature babies who are campaigning

:30:02. > :30:03.to increase maternity leave Two years ago, a bakery

:30:04. > :30:09.in Northern Ireland Its Christian owners were found

:30:10. > :30:12.guilty of discrimination but appealed and will find out this

:30:13. > :30:15.morning whether they've Julian Worricker is in the BBC

:30:16. > :30:35.Newsroom with a summary Hundreds of French police officers

:30:36. > :30:39.and officials have started clearing the migrant camp in Calais known as

:30:40. > :30:43.the Jungle. Several thousand people have been living there while trying

:30:44. > :30:46.to cross the channel to the UK. This morning they are queueing to

:30:47. > :30:48.register to be taken to other parts of France where they can apply for

:30:49. > :30:51.asylum. A British banker has pleaded not

:30:52. > :30:54.guilty to murdering two Indonesian women in Hong Kong,

:30:55. > :30:56.on grounds of diminished Prosecutors rejected an attempt

:30:57. > :30:59.by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty plea on the lesser

:31:00. > :31:01.charge of manslaughter. The bodies of the Indonesian

:31:02. > :31:03.women were found at his Rurik Jutting who's 31 faces life

:31:04. > :31:07.in prison if convicted in what is being described

:31:08. > :31:09.as Hong Kong's biggest A group of medical leaders have

:31:10. > :31:15.listed 40 treatments and procedures which they say offer

:31:16. > :31:18.little or no benefit to patients. The initiative from the Academy

:31:19. > :31:21.of Medical Royal Colleges is aimed at cutting down the number

:31:22. > :31:23.of unnecessary treatments. They include X rays for lower back

:31:24. > :31:33.pain and plaster casts for children The chair of the academy says some

:31:34. > :31:37.of the procedures are time-consuming.

:31:38. > :31:43.There are simpler and as safe options, so why wouldn't you? I

:31:44. > :31:47.think we have a culture of we can do something and therefore we should do

:31:48. > :31:51.something, and we need to stop and reflect and decide which is the best

:31:52. > :31:54.option for the patient and their individual circumstances.

:31:55. > :31:57.The Prime Minister is holding talks about Brexit this morning

:31:58. > :31:59.with the three leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

:32:00. > :32:01.It's the first meeting of the Joint Ministerial Council

:32:02. > :32:05.Theresa May has pledged to involve the three devolved governments

:32:06. > :32:09.in regular formal talks on the process of leaving the EU.

:32:10. > :32:11.The First Ministers of Scotland and Wales have said the devolved

:32:12. > :32:20.administrations must be treated as equal partners.

:32:21. > :32:21.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:32:22. > :32:31.Here's this morning's sports headlines now with Katherine Downes.

:32:32. > :32:34.England have this morning clinched victory in dramatic

:32:35. > :32:36.fashion in the first Test against Bangladesh.

:32:37. > :32:39.Man of the match Ben Stokes took the final two wickets in three balls

:32:40. > :32:42.as England secured the win by 22 runs on the final day's

:32:43. > :32:47.It was an afternoon to forget for Jose Mourinho as he returned

:32:48. > :32:50.to Chelsea for the first time since leaving the club last year.

:32:51. > :32:53.His United team were thrashed 4-0 at Stamford Bridge and stay seventh

:32:54. > :32:58.Celtic will play Aberdeen in the final of the Scottish League Cup

:32:59. > :33:03.Moussa Dembele scored a late winner against Rangers to earn

:33:04. > :33:06.Brendan Rodgers' side their second Old Firm victory of the season.

:33:07. > :33:12.And a 50th career race win for Lewis Hamilton at the US

:33:13. > :33:14.Grand Prix has cut Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg's championship

:33:15. > :33:24.That is all the sport. Back to you. Thank you and see you later.

:33:25. > :33:26.French officials have begun to clear migrants out of the so-called

:33:27. > :33:30.About 60 buses have been brought in to transport migrants to other

:33:31. > :33:33.parts of France where they will be given the opportunity

:33:34. > :33:45.The Jungle is a migrant camp near the port of Calais and close

:33:46. > :33:46.to the entrance to the Channel Tunnel.

:33:47. > :33:49.It houses migrants who are trying to enter the UK.

:33:50. > :33:51.The number of people who live in the camp varies.

:33:52. > :33:55.In mid-October, officials conducted what they call

:33:56. > :33:58.a visual survey of the camp, and they estimated there were around

:33:59. > :34:04.It's estimated that, of those, 1200 were

:34:05. > :34:09.One of those children was a 13-year-old Afghan

:34:10. > :34:14.boy who Lily Allen met on this programme.

:34:15. > :34:25.The camp's closing in a couple of weeks, what are you going to do?

:34:26. > :34:28.It just seems that three different intervals in this young boy's life

:34:29. > :34:30.the English in particular have put you in danger.

:34:31. > :34:34.We've bombed your country, put you in the hands of the Taliban

:34:35. > :34:37.and now putting you at risk, risking your life to

:34:38. > :34:51.I'm sorry for what we've put you through.

:34:52. > :34:54.He's since been reunited with his dad in Birmingham,

:34:55. > :34:59.but charities say there are still hundreds of unaccompanied

:35:00. > :35:02.children in the Jungle, many of which live in squalid conditions.

:35:03. > :35:05.Even though France and Germany have offered to house

:35:06. > :35:07.many of the migrants, they still want to come to the UK

:35:08. > :35:14.I asked a few Syrians that here, and they said it's because they

:35:15. > :35:17.speak English and they'd rather go to a country where English

:35:18. > :35:21.It's also because some of them have got friends and relatives

:35:22. > :35:25.who already live in Britain, so they are still prepared

:35:26. > :35:28.to try and get there, and to live in this awful place

:35:29. > :35:33.Many migrants attempt to hide themselves in cargo vehicles

:35:34. > :35:39.It's why, in September, work began on a 13-foot wall funded

:35:40. > :35:42.by the UK Government to try and stop migrants from stowing

:35:43. > :35:51.At the beginning of the year, half the camp was cleared,

:35:52. > :35:53.and that led to violence between law enforcement, protesters,

:35:54. > :35:59.This road marks the Jungle's new boundary.

:36:00. > :36:02.Everything to the south of it is going to be cleared out

:36:03. > :36:12.The irony is that migrants here are clinging on to makeshift

:36:13. > :36:14.shelters in a country most don't want to be.

:36:15. > :36:17.Moving to official migrant camps with heat and electricity means

:36:18. > :36:24.These temporary shacks show their resolve not to settle here.

:36:25. > :36:27.So even now, if the Jungle is completely razed, as is planned,

:36:28. > :36:30.many say something similar will simply pop up somewhere else.

:36:31. > :36:33.That's because many of the migrants will stay in the area to get

:36:34. > :36:41.I will sleep on the street if they remove the camp.

:36:42. > :36:45.I will not move one inch from here.

:36:46. > :36:55.I have one hope, just to get to the UK, and I don't

:36:56. > :37:02.Our correspondent Simon Jones is at the registration

:37:03. > :37:18.Still a long line of people waiting for the registration process. Among

:37:19. > :37:21.them, Khan from Afghanistan and Sudan from Sudan. What do you make

:37:22. > :37:29.of what is happening today? Where will you go? I will go any town that

:37:30. > :37:43.is French. You will stay in France? I want to go to the UK. Cannot stay

:37:44. > :37:50.here. Can I turn to you? What has life been like in the Jungle? I

:37:51. > :37:55.don't like anything in the Jungle. What will happen now and where will

:37:56. > :38:01.you go? I am going to Paris today. Are you happy to leave the Jungle?

:38:02. > :38:10.No, I am not happy. Because you see all the life in the Jungle. There

:38:11. > :38:17.are problems in the Jungle. But it is making problems in the UK. Which

:38:18. > :38:24.you like to go to the UK? Of course. Why not? All the people living in

:38:25. > :38:29.the Jungle waiting two years, 15 months, 18 months, to go to the UK.

:38:30. > :38:37.He has been living in the Jungle for 18 months. You want to get across

:38:38. > :38:42.the Channel to the UK? Why? Yes. Because I like the UK. Everything is

:38:43. > :38:49.there. I am happy there. That is why I go to the UK. How long do you

:38:50. > :38:53.think you will have to wait today? I have been waiting one hour in the

:38:54. > :38:58.queues. They are taking registration. I don't have a number

:38:59. > :39:03.now. I am still waiting and it might be two or three hours. Lots of

:39:04. > :39:08.people waiting around here. Let's try and grab a word with the latest

:39:09. > :39:18.from the charities. Can I ask you a quick question in English? Very

:39:19. > :39:26.quickly. You live on the BBC. What do you make of what is happening

:39:27. > :39:33.today? Happening is the first day. People who are going to the south of

:39:34. > :39:38.France and to stay here. People are happy to see all these coaches and

:39:39. > :39:42.to go to someone else outside here. That is for today. For the other

:39:43. > :39:47.days it will be something very difficult. Thank you. We are just

:39:48. > :39:52.hearing that the process of bringing vulnerable children from the Jungle

:39:53. > :39:56.just down the road from here over to the UK has been temporarily halted

:39:57. > :39:59.at the request of the French authorities. It may well be because

:40:00. > :40:03.today they are trying to get the vulnerable children moved from the

:40:04. > :40:07.Jungle to shipping containers where they can be held in security and in

:40:08. > :40:10.safe accommodation well this is happening but at the moment we are

:40:11. > :40:16.hearing that has temporarily been suspended. 200 children being

:40:17. > :40:21.brought over but now that has been halted. Thank you.

:40:22. > :40:24.With us now is the Conservative MP for Dover Charlie Elphicke,

:40:25. > :40:27.who has long called for the closures of the camps, and Tess Berry-Hart

:40:28. > :40:35.Thank you both for joining us. Do you think it will lead to fewer

:40:36. > :40:38.people trying to come to UK from France illegally? I think the

:40:39. > :40:42.important thing first of all is to make sure this camp is dismantled

:40:43. > :40:46.and that it goes off effectively and that people are moved into reception

:40:47. > :40:49.centres elsewhere in France. It is important to bear in mind that this

:40:50. > :40:52.Christmas thousands of people will be in favour homes with running

:40:53. > :41:02.water and proper sanitation. That has got to be the right thing to do.

:41:03. > :41:05.When you see how is being managed, do you think it is being managed in

:41:06. > :41:08.the correct way? Right now it looks like it is going very smoothly. They

:41:09. > :41:10.are moving the most vulnerable people into the containers

:41:11. > :41:13.carefully. People seem to be queueing up and it seems to be

:41:14. > :41:16.moving ahead in an orderly fashion. We have just heard that bring

:41:17. > :41:20.children to the UK has been temporarily halted but we are not

:41:21. > :41:25.clear on why that is. Would you like to see that resumed as quickly as

:41:26. > :41:28.possible? What are your thoughts? Obviously, yes. The French have

:41:29. > :41:34.decided to hold it for some reason and we will find out in due course.

:41:35. > :41:40.It is good that this weekend 50 vulnerable young girls were brought

:41:41. > :41:45.over. The Dubbs Amendment children were brought into the UK and it is

:41:46. > :41:49.really important that should continue. Is closing the camp the

:41:50. > :41:53.right thing to do? Nobody wants to live on a landfill site in terrible

:41:54. > :41:57.squalor and all of the groups that I know don't want people to exist in

:41:58. > :42:02.those terrible conditions. What we would have wanted is for that

:42:03. > :42:06.transition process to have taken place in a phased way. And not

:42:07. > :42:11.packed into a few days, because thousands of people need to be taken

:42:12. > :42:16.out by bus. The residents of the cab, many are not aware or don't

:42:17. > :42:18.understand what is going on. Up to a fewer hours ago, volunteers were

:42:19. > :42:21.telling me that young people, children in the camps, were not

:42:22. > :42:26.aware of what they were meant to do and where they were supposed to be

:42:27. > :42:31.going. If this had been done in a more orderly way... Since the Dubbs

:42:32. > :42:35.Amendment was passed in May we could have saved a lot of unnecessary

:42:36. > :42:39.suffering. Does it follow that the closure of this camp will mean that

:42:40. > :42:44.people will not congregate in Calais? The Jungle is just one camp

:42:45. > :42:49.and of course there is a big one at Dunkirk. A more orderly camp but

:42:50. > :42:52.still large. There must be real concern that people will sneak back

:42:53. > :42:57.to Calais and the whole thing will reform because that is the history

:42:58. > :43:00.of this. We need to end the Calais migrant back that for good which

:43:01. > :43:03.means processing asylum claims and helping people who are not

:43:04. > :43:09.successful back to their home nations. How can that be achieved?

:43:10. > :43:12.The very reason everybody is congregating in Calais is because

:43:13. > :43:16.they want to get to the UK. We were hearing from one migrant talking to

:43:17. > :43:19.Simon saying he does want to stay in France and no doubt some will feel

:43:20. > :43:24.that way, but it seems the majority are there because they want to come

:43:25. > :43:28.here. The issue is that basically Calais is the first border they come

:43:29. > :43:32.through. People can wander through Europe because of the open borders

:43:33. > :43:36.Schengen system that they have. They come to a hard border in Calais and

:43:37. > :43:40.congregate. They come here because they are sold tales and streams by

:43:41. > :43:44.people traffickers and we need to focus on the people traffickers

:43:45. > :43:50.behind this. Behind the tide of human misery, disrupt their

:43:51. > :43:54.networks, catch them and jail them. Thank you. We will continue to look

:43:55. > :43:56.at what is happening in Calais with the closure of the Jungle throughout

:43:57. > :43:58.the programme. The woman who accused Ched Evans

:43:59. > :44:01.of rape says she'd thankful The footballer was cleared of rape

:44:02. > :44:06.at a retrial earlier this month and since then a campaign has been

:44:07. > :44:09.underway to raise money to help the 24-year-old

:44:10. > :44:11.woman start a new life. This morning a group of Labour MPs

:44:12. > :44:14.have written to the attorney-general warning women may be less likely

:44:15. > :44:16.to report rape to police because of the way the complainant

:44:17. > :44:19.in the Ched Evans case was questioned about her sex life

:44:20. > :44:21.during the re-trial. Jean Hatchet is the feminist

:44:22. > :44:23.campaigner who set up She's chosen to speak to us

:44:24. > :44:32.anonymously, using the pseudonym Obviously I am only one of a number

:44:33. > :44:36.of women who wanted to do this and it was largely as a result of

:44:37. > :44:42.feeling pretty disheartened by the verdict a week last Friday, feeling

:44:43. > :44:48.that the court was not a safe place for women to go, that their sexual

:44:49. > :44:54.history would be brought before them in such a graphic way, and they felt

:44:55. > :44:58.so sorry for the woman and the way she was treated in that courtroom.

:44:59. > :45:06.They wanted to do something to show her some kindness and support and

:45:07. > :45:11.solidarity. Luckily that has been well supported by the British

:45:12. > :45:14.public. More than 40 female Labour MPs have written to the

:45:15. > :45:17.Attorney-General supporting a change in the law to stop the sexual

:45:18. > :45:22.history of rape complainant is being used against them in court, after

:45:23. > :45:26.the complainant's sexual history was raised in this case. Do you think

:45:27. > :45:30.there needs to be a change in the law?

:45:31. > :45:36.It has been said this is not precedent. Whilst it is not law

:45:37. > :45:40.precedent it has been there and available in law for a long time.

:45:41. > :45:45.The effect that it is going to have is discouraging women from coming

:45:46. > :45:49.forwards. I think reporting rapes are incredibly low are going to be

:45:50. > :45:52.affected by this. It is going to be because of the way it is amplified

:45:53. > :45:56.in the media. It's going to mean another sharp drop in reporting.

:45:57. > :46:00.Women will be afraid of having their sexual history paraded before a

:46:01. > :46:06.courtroom and in this case before, you know, the entire British public.

:46:07. > :46:12.That's terrifying. Absolutely terrifying for women and that cannot

:46:13. > :46:16.continue to happen. As the law stands, a complainant's sexual

:46:17. > :46:20.history can only be raised if it is regarded by the judge as being

:46:21. > :46:25.particularly pertinent to the case prior to this it has only happened

:46:26. > :46:29.in one other case. Is there any reason to suspect it will be any

:46:30. > :46:33.different going forward? This might be another effective one off? For

:46:34. > :46:38.women who are brave enough to come forwards and sorry, I don't mean to

:46:39. > :46:43.imply that other women aren't brave, but I think the fact that this has

:46:44. > :46:47.been used in such a high-profile case has raised awareness that it

:46:48. > :46:53.exists and it raised awareness for those that will be accused in the

:46:54. > :46:59.future. You said at the beginning the complainant has asked about the

:47:00. > :47:03.kindness being shown to her, "Why are people doing this to me?" She

:47:04. > :47:09.has experienced a lot of abuse online. She is anonymous, but there

:47:10. > :47:13.have been a lot on social media. It has been relentless and it has been

:47:14. > :47:20.years of it and I can't imagine how she feels. Hearing that for so long

:47:21. > :47:27.and you know, so many of us online do experience that kind of abuse and

:47:28. > :47:30.that's another thing actually. It is really good that men are supporting

:47:31. > :47:34.this fund as well because it shows that they aren't like those men.

:47:35. > :47:39.They aren't the screaming masses of men who are saying this vile stuff

:47:40. > :47:43.online. You say screaming masses, presumably it is a minority? It

:47:44. > :47:48.feels like screaming masses. It feels like streaming masses some

:47:49. > :47:52.days. There is one particular troll who has repeatedly named the

:47:53. > :48:01.complainant and named her in the most graphic and horrible of ways.

:48:02. > :48:07.Harasses me and her constantly online and has done so for years

:48:08. > :48:12.with four or five Twitter accounts, three or four blogs. In the most

:48:13. > :48:17.appalling and obsessive of ways, you know, it is just pure hatred for

:48:18. > :48:20.women. We're speaking to you anonymously because of your concerns

:48:21. > :48:25.for the sort of things that are said online. Yes. What are some of the

:48:26. > :48:31.worst stuff that you've come across? I'm in no doubt men hate me enough

:48:32. > :48:35.to kill me because a man expressed just days ago that he would like

:48:36. > :48:40.someone to come around and cave my skull in. Whilst I'm brave, you

:48:41. > :48:47.know, I do have a family and I can't risk that happening.

:48:48. > :48:54.That was Jean Hatchet talking to me. Earlier, that's a pseudonym.

:48:55. > :48:56.And Ched Evans was found not guilty of rape at that

:48:57. > :49:00.A Christian bakery, found to have broken the law by refusing to bake

:49:01. > :49:03.a cake with a pro-gay marriage slogan on it,

:49:04. > :49:05.will learn the outcome of its appeal today.

:49:06. > :49:07.Our correspondent Chris Buckler is at the Royal Courts

:49:08. > :49:16.So, Chris, this is an appeal. Just remind us what this case is about.

:49:17. > :49:20.Well, Joanna, this story which started two-and-a-half years ago at

:49:21. > :49:24.a bakery in Belfast has attracted attention from around the world.

:49:25. > :49:29.Some people characterise it as faith on trial. Others say it is a battle

:49:30. > :49:34.against prejudice. Last year a court ruled that Ashers had discriminated

:49:35. > :49:38.against a customer when it refused to bake a cake with a slogan saying,

:49:39. > :49:43."Support gay marriage." The owners of the bakery were Christians and

:49:44. > :49:46.they said that message was inconsistants with their religious

:49:47. > :49:50.beliefs and same-sex marriage is not legal in Northern Ireland. Gareth

:49:51. > :49:53.Lee took a case supported by the equality watchdog for Northern

:49:54. > :49:57.Ireland and won the case. So damages of ?500 were award against the

:49:58. > :50:01.bakery. But the bakery supported by the Christian Institute decided to

:50:02. > :50:05.appeal against that judgement and the verdict in that appeal will be

:50:06. > :50:10.delivered this morning. The general manager of Ashers Bakery arrived at

:50:11. > :50:14.court in the last half an hour. He is Daniel McArthur and gave a short

:50:15. > :50:22.statement to reporters on his way in. It has been over two years since

:50:23. > :50:25.our bake rye said it wasn't able to help campaigners who wanted to

:50:26. > :50:30.change the law on marriage in Northern Ireland. We have always

:50:31. > :50:35.said and say again today, while we are unwilling to endorse a view that

:50:36. > :50:39.goes against our conscience we continue to happily serve whoever

:50:40. > :50:42.comes through our doors, regardless of their background, lifestyle or

:50:43. > :50:48.beliefs. This has never been about the customer. It's always been about

:50:49. > :50:53.a message that contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible on marriage.

:50:54. > :51:00.And the message that promotes a cause with which I and my family

:51:01. > :51:04.fundamentally disagree. We hope and pray today that this court will send

:51:05. > :51:09.a very different sort of message, one that protects the freedom of

:51:10. > :51:13.people and businesses to work and remain faithful to their

:51:14. > :51:17.consciences. It won't be much longer now until we hear that judgement and

:51:18. > :51:24.after that, we might be able to say something further, but thank you.

:51:25. > :51:32.That's the view of Daniel McArthur, the general manager of Ashers Baking

:51:33. > :51:37.Company. We heard from Michael Wardlo. He arrived with Gareth Lee,

:51:38. > :51:42.whose order was refused by the bakery. He said it is about equality

:51:43. > :51:46.and law and no one should walk into a shop wondering what the shop

:51:47. > :51:49.owner's religious convictions are and wondering if they will get

:51:50. > :51:55.served. He says it is about common sense and he hopes that common sense

:51:56. > :51:59.will prevail. The three judges at the Northern Ireland Court of Appeal

:52:00. > :52:01.will give their judgements shortly. The hearing due to get underway at

:52:02. > :52:06.10am. Latest reports from northern Iraq

:52:07. > :52:08.say Iraqi special forces have begun shelling so-called Islamic State

:52:09. > :52:10.positions near Mosul as the massive US-backed operation

:52:11. > :52:21.to retake the city continues. Richard Galpi in is in nearby Irbil.

:52:22. > :52:27.What's the latest, The key battle Richard? Or one of them is around a

:52:28. > :52:30.town which is in the north-east and heading, it is the Kurdish forces

:52:31. > :52:36.heading from the north-east towards Mosul. It lies on that road. We

:52:37. > :52:40.understand now they have managed to encircle the town the it is a key

:52:41. > :52:43.Islamic State stronghold. A fortified townment they have

:52:44. > :52:47.encircled and they're increasing the pressure. They're hoping to re-take

:52:48. > :52:52.the town as quickly as possible and if they do so, then they will be

:52:53. > :52:57.within a few miles, perhaps at most ten miles from the outskirts of

:52:58. > :53:01.Mosul city. So they would be right up to the outskirts of the key

:53:02. > :53:05.objectives which is, of course, to take Mosul. That is obviously

:53:06. > :53:11.important, but it has not happened yet so we have to wait and see. At

:53:12. > :53:15.the same time, we now have reports of a third attack by Islamic State

:53:16. > :53:20.militants in another part of the country. As you know, there has been

:53:21. > :53:25.this attack last Friday on very important city Kirkuk. There was

:53:26. > :53:30.then yesterday an attack in western Iraq on a place which is still

:53:31. > :53:34.on-going as far as we understand it. That Islamic State militants are

:53:35. > :53:41.still in control of three districts of that town and today, it has been

:53:42. > :53:45.confirmed by senior Iraqi military officials that Islamic State

:53:46. > :53:49.militants have attacked a town to the west of Mosul the Iraqi military

:53:50. > :53:54.are saying they managed to repel that attack killing a number of

:53:55. > :53:57.militants. They are saying there was a number of suicide car attacks, but

:53:58. > :54:02.they managed to get that situation under control. So this kind of

:54:03. > :54:10.counter offensive by Islamic State is building up steam. What does it

:54:11. > :54:15.indicate about the IS strategy here? Well, it is a very clear strategy

:54:16. > :54:21.that they want to divert attention away from the Mosul offensive and

:54:22. > :54:26.get troops who are involved in the Mosul offensive to be pealed away. I

:54:27. > :54:31.spoke to an intelligence source yesterday yesterday who ed in the

:54:32. > :54:34.case of the attack on kir book by Islamic State militants, it was a

:54:35. > :54:41.big attack the they are saying, its source are saying and we can't

:54:42. > :54:44.verify or confirm it, but he was saying that two thousand Kurdish

:54:45. > :54:51.fighters were pulled away from the Mosul offensive to carry out the

:54:52. > :54:56.operation in Kirkuk. Those fighters were still in Kirkuk yesterday and

:54:57. > :55:01.to give you some idea of the scale of that, 2,000 fighters, it is about

:55:02. > :55:02.20% of the entire Kurdish forces involved in the Mosul offensive.

:55:03. > :55:15.Thank you very much, Richard. It is time to catch up with the

:55:16. > :55:19.weather with Carol. I haven't seen you since you had your fabulous

:55:20. > :55:23.dance with Ed Balls. Did you see him on Saturday? I did. He was good. I

:55:24. > :55:27.know they talked about him dropping Katya, but he is a very strong man.

:55:28. > :55:31.I was confident he wouldn't do it, but it was good fun. What a good

:55:32. > :55:39.sport. We're watching the exact moment you're talking about.

:55:40. > :55:43.There it is. He gets to dance another time at least. He does. Good

:55:44. > :55:46.luck to him too. He really looks like he is really enjoying it and it

:55:47. > :55:51.is a nerve-wracking experience as well, Joanna. You should do it. I

:55:52. > :55:57.think you'd be great. I'd love to. We got it here first!

:55:58. > :56:01.The weather today, if you like it dry, isn't too bad. We have got

:56:02. > :56:05.smashing pictures that our BBC Weather Watchers sent us. Look at

:56:06. > :56:10.this one of Bridlington, a beautiful, beautiful sunrise. We

:56:11. > :56:17.have had a beautiful start to the day in Hedon. The temperature is

:56:18. > :56:21.only six Celsius. In Dumfries and Galloway, a beautiful start to the

:56:22. > :56:25.day. Where we have had the clear skies by night is where we've had

:56:26. > :56:28.the low temperatures, now slowly starting to recover. It is further

:56:29. > :56:32.south, we have had a lot of cloud and rain courtesy of this weather

:56:33. > :56:37.front and we will carry on with that scenario. Some of it has turned

:56:38. > :56:41.thundery especially across parts of Devon and you can see the large gap,

:56:42. > :56:44.the spacing of the isobars telling us it won't be as windy as

:56:45. > :56:48.yesterday. The showers that we are seeing coming in from the North Sea,

:56:49. > :56:52.won't get as far inland. North of our weather front for the North

:56:53. > :56:55.Midlands, through Norfolk, most of North Wales and Northern England,

:56:56. > :56:59.Scotland and Northern Ireland, it is largely dry. There is sunshine. Come

:57:00. > :57:04.south, where we've got our weather front and we're back under the rain.

:57:05. > :57:08.Across parts of Cornwall and south Devon this afternoon, we could see

:57:09. > :57:11.slow moving torrential downpours. Not all of us will see them and we

:57:12. > :57:15.will see further showers across South Wales. North Wales, north-west

:57:16. > :57:19.England and Northern Ireland, a lot of dry weather around. A few showers

:57:20. > :57:22.flirting with the coastline of Northern Ireland and also Western

:57:23. > :57:26.Scotland, but as you can see a lot of dry weather, sunny spells, and

:57:27. > :57:29.then down the East Coast of Scotland, as well as down the East

:57:30. > :57:34.Coast of England, we are prone to those showers still at this stage,

:57:35. > :57:39.but not making it terribly far inland, a lot of dry weather and

:57:40. > :57:43.sunshine around the Wash and Suffolk, across southern areas and

:57:44. > :57:46.where we have got the weather front there will be cloud and showery

:57:47. > :57:49.outbreaks of rain. We continue with that scenario in the south-west

:57:50. > :57:53.through the evening, but overnight, some of the showers start to fade

:57:54. > :57:57.as. As they will do across eastern parts of Scotland and England.

:57:58. > :58:01.Inland it will be a cold night and cold enough for a touch of frost.

:58:02. > :58:06.Temperatures could dip to fi mus five Celsius. There will be some

:58:07. > :58:09.patchy mist and fog forming. Some of which will drag its heels in terms

:58:10. > :58:12.of clearance tomorrow. You can see where we still have a weather front,

:58:13. > :58:15.there will be a fair bit of cloud around, but slowly through the day,

:58:16. > :58:20.some of that will break up and we will see sunshine. But once again,

:58:21. > :58:24.north of that weather front, we're in for a dry day with sunny spells

:58:25. > :58:30.and temperatures between ten and 15 Celsius. Then it all changes as we

:58:31. > :58:33.head into Wednesday. We lose the easterly which we have had for the

:58:34. > :58:39.last wee while which has been dragging in a lot of low cloud and

:58:40. > :58:42.showers. We see a return to more south-westerlies which is a milder

:58:43. > :58:46.direction for us. That means that it is the west's turn to see more cloud

:58:47. > :58:51.and showers coming in from the Atlantic in the Irish Sea. Whereas

:58:52. > :58:55.in the east, dry, sunny and it will feel much better as well and it is a

:58:56. > :58:58.very similar story as we head on into Thursday. The winds will be

:58:59. > :59:04.stronger. We have got the rain coming in across the north-west and

:59:05. > :59:08.we have got showers coming in across north-west England and Wales. It

:59:09. > :59:16.will be drier and brighter with sunshine and highs up to 16 Celsius.

:59:17. > :59:23.It is just before 10am. The Calais clearance begins.

:59:24. > :59:26.Migrants and refugees pack up their belongings and queue to get on

:59:27. > :59:28.busesment one migrant tells us he has been there months and is still

:59:29. > :59:39.hoping to get to the UK. I am waiting to go to the UK. That

:59:40. > :59:44.is why everybody lives in the Jungle. We are waiting to years, 15

:59:45. > :59:47.months. My friend has been living here 14 months. His older brother

:59:48. > :59:55.has been living in the Jungle 18 months. But you want to get across

:59:56. > :00:00.the channel to the UK? Why? Yes. Because I like the UK. Because I go

:00:01. > :00:06.to the UK. Everything is there. I am happy there. That is why I go to the

:00:07. > :00:09.UK. We will be live in Calais shortly. Also on the programme: So

:00:10. > :00:14.many of you getting in touch to react to the interview with Jack

:00:15. > :00:18.Davis when he spoke about how he copes with the feelings of grief and

:00:19. > :00:24.pain after losing two baby boys. I was 21 at the time. It was our first

:00:25. > :00:31.child. We had no idea what to do. We had no idea what was going on. I had

:00:32. > :00:34.an idea of what was going to happen but I didn't know how to react in

:00:35. > :00:38.that moment. It was a case of do what people said, getting to the

:00:39. > :00:42.hospital, doing what the doctors said and going with it. It was

:00:43. > :00:46.heartbreaking. We knew the inevitable before we were told. With

:00:47. > :00:51.it being our first child, it had such an impact on us, even if we

:00:52. > :00:55.ever tried again. Katie on Facebook says very brave to speak out on

:00:56. > :01:04.television. I lost twin boys ten years ago now. I was 28 weeks. It

:01:05. > :01:07.does get easier with time. My boys are always with me. You are so

:01:08. > :01:09.brave. Later on the programme we will hear from mothers are premature

:01:10. > :01:10.babies who are campaigning for longer maternity leave to give them

:01:11. > :01:18.more support. Plaster casts for kids' wrist

:01:19. > :01:22.fractures, also pointless. It turns out that some of the most

:01:23. > :01:25.commonly used treatments offered by GPs and hospitals are of little

:01:26. > :01:28.use according to senior doctors. We'll speak to two doctors to find

:01:29. > :01:38.out why and what the other ones are. Now we can catch up on all of the

:01:39. > :01:41.news with Julian in the newsroom. Thank you.

:01:42. > :01:43.Hundreds of French police officers and officials have started clearing

:01:44. > :01:45.the migrant camp in Calais known as the Jungle.

:01:46. > :01:48.Several thousand people have been living there while trying to cross

:01:49. > :01:52.This morning, many have been queueing to register to be taken

:01:53. > :01:56.to other parts of France where they can apply for asylum.

:01:57. > :02:01.The Home Office says the transfer of children to the UK from the Calais

:02:02. > :02:05.Campbell has been temporarily paused at the request of France while the

:02:06. > :02:11.site is cleared. -- the Calais camp. A British banker has pleaded not

:02:12. > :02:13.guilty to murdering two Indonesian women in Hong Kong,

:02:14. > :02:15.on grounds of diminished Prosecutors rejected an attempt

:02:16. > :02:18.by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty plea on the lesser

:02:19. > :02:21.charge of manslaughter. The bodies of the Indonesian

:02:22. > :02:23.women were found at his Rurik Jutting who's 31 faces life

:02:24. > :02:26.in prison if convicted in what is being described

:02:27. > :02:28.as Hong Kong's biggest A group of medical leaders have

:02:29. > :02:38.listed 40 treatments and procedures which they say offer

:02:39. > :02:41.little or no benefit to patients. The initiative is aimed

:02:42. > :02:43.at cutting down the number They include X rays for lower back

:02:44. > :02:47.pain and plaster casts for children A young dad in his 20s,

:02:48. > :02:57.whose blog about losing two babies in a year went viral,

:02:58. > :02:59.has given his first ever interview to the Victoria

:03:00. > :03:04.Derbyshire programme. 22-year-old Jack Davis wrote about

:03:05. > :03:08.his grief online after his partner Liane encouraged him to write about

:03:09. > :03:12.his feelings. He spoke to Joanna earlier on.

:03:13. > :03:21.We were so ready to be parents, even at a young age. When we found out

:03:22. > :03:31.she was parent! Brabant, we suddenly grew up and toured a lot more. Not

:03:32. > :03:35.that we were immature. -- when we found out she was pregnant, we

:03:36. > :03:41.suddenly grew up and mature a lot more. When we found out we were not

:03:42. > :03:47.going to be parents, I don't know how you deal with that. When you

:03:48. > :03:50.find that is taken away from you, it is not happening any more, I don't

:03:51. > :03:55.know how you are supposed to react to that.

:03:56. > :03:58.An undercover BBC investigation has discovered that Syrian refugee

:03:59. > :03:59.children have been making clothes for British retailers

:04:00. > :04:03.The Panorama programme found that children without work permits had

:04:04. > :04:05.been working on products for Marks Spencer

:04:06. > :04:09.The brands say they do not tolerate exploitation or child labour.

:04:10. > :04:15.An M spokesman said the findings were extremely serious.

:04:16. > :04:30.That is a summary of the latest BBC News. We will have more for you at

:04:31. > :04:35.10:30am. Thank you. So many of you getting in touch with reactions to

:04:36. > :04:40.Jac Davies's story of losing two babies. Julia last nine babies who

:04:41. > :04:45.were all boys before I eventually had two healthy boys. So touching.

:04:46. > :04:50.And particularly useful is what not to say. People trying to be helpful

:04:51. > :04:54.but it has the opposite effect. And Kelly on Facebook says beautiful. So

:04:55. > :04:56.many people forget about the men. Do get in touch with everything we are

:04:57. > :05:01.talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:05:02. > :05:05.and if you text, you will be charged Let's get the sport now

:05:06. > :05:08.from Katherine Downes. But England clinched victory this

:05:09. > :05:11.morning in the first Test The hosts started the final day

:05:12. > :05:15.needing just 33 more runs to secure a first ever Test

:05:16. > :05:17.victory over England. But man of the match Ben Stokes took

:05:18. > :05:20.the final two wickets in three balls, as England secured the win

:05:21. > :05:24.by 22 runs on the final day's play. The second and final

:05:25. > :05:33.Test is on Friday. We knew that we were going to create

:05:34. > :05:38.chances and it was just a matter of if we could hold onto them. It was

:05:39. > :05:42.up to the umpire to give as those breakthroughs with the LBW

:05:43. > :05:44.decisions. We just managed to take wickets at the right moment. The

:05:45. > :05:52.last two were perfect timing. It was an afternoon Jose Mourinho

:05:53. > :05:54.would rather forget as he returned to Chelsea for the first time

:05:55. > :05:57.since leaving the club last year. His Manchester United team

:05:58. > :06:00.were thrashed 4-0 at Stamford Bridge and stay seventh in

:06:01. > :06:01.the Premier League. Mourinho took his frustrations out

:06:02. > :06:04.on Antonio Conte after the match. He spoke to his Italian counterpart

:06:05. > :06:06.at the final whistle, with suggestions he had been annoyed

:06:07. > :06:20.that Conte had whipped up the home The match started 1-0. It is as easy

:06:21. > :06:26.as that. Football matches start 0-0 and this match started 1-0. A team

:06:27. > :06:30.like Chelsea comfortable in playing counterattack, you give them the

:06:31. > :06:35.chance to play like they want, so yes, we create conditions by having

:06:36. > :06:38.such a big mistake in the first of all.

:06:39. > :06:40.Manchester City remain top of the Premier League

:06:41. > :06:42.despite being without a win in five games.

:06:43. > :06:44.A John Stones mistake allowed Nathan Redmond to give

:06:45. > :06:47.City equalised after the break through substitute

:06:48. > :07:00.We just had to defend really well. They are a good team with good

:07:01. > :07:04.players, good central defenders. We created chances in the second half.

:07:05. > :07:07.In the end they scored a goal. In the second half they had other

:07:08. > :07:11.chances. It is always like this. Celtic will play Aberdeen in

:07:12. > :07:14.the final of the Scottish League Cup Moussa Dembele scored a late winner

:07:15. > :07:18.against Rangers to earn Brendan Rodgers' side their second

:07:19. > :07:20.Old Firm victory of the season. A 50th career race win

:07:21. > :07:28.for Lewis Hamilton at the US Grand Prix has cut Mercedes teammate

:07:29. > :07:30.Nico Rosberg's Championship It was Hamilton's fourth

:07:31. > :07:34.win at the Circuit of the Americas in Austin,

:07:35. > :07:36.Texas. The destiny of the Drivers'

:07:37. > :07:38.Championship is still very much out He could win all three

:07:39. > :07:52.of his remaining races I love being here in the United

:07:53. > :07:56.States. Very much feels like home. We had some incredible support here

:07:57. > :08:05.this weekend, which I am so thank you all. Big thanks to everyone. I

:08:06. > :08:07.feel very proud of being part of it. Lewis Hamilton talking to Gerard

:08:08. > :08:14.Butler, I think! Thank you. So the operation to clear the Jungle

:08:15. > :08:18.camp in Calais is under way this morning and the first of hundreds

:08:19. > :08:20.of buses carrying migrants to new reception centres all over

:08:21. > :08:23.France have been leaving the site. Queues have formed at a centre

:08:24. > :08:26.nearby, where occupants of the camp are assessed before being taken

:08:27. > :08:28.in coaches to shelters The Jungle is a migrant camp

:08:29. > :08:39.near the port of Calais and close to the entrance to the Channel

:08:40. > :08:40.Tunnel. It houses migrants who are

:08:41. > :08:43.trying to enter the UK. The number of people who live

:08:44. > :08:45.in the camp varies. In mid-October, officials

:08:46. > :08:50.conducted what they call a visual survey of the camp,

:08:51. > :08:53.and they estimated there were around It's estimated that,

:08:54. > :08:58.of those, 1200 were One of those children

:08:59. > :09:03.was a 13-year-old Afghan boy who Lily Allen met

:09:04. > :09:08.on this programme. The camp's closing

:09:09. > :09:10.in a couple of weeks. It just seems that three different

:09:11. > :09:21.intervals in this young boy's life the English in particular

:09:22. > :09:23.have put you in danger. We've bombed your country,

:09:24. > :09:30.put you in the hands of the Taliban and now putting you at risk,

:09:31. > :09:32.risking your life to I'm sorry

:09:33. > :09:45.for what we've put you through. He's since been reunited

:09:46. > :09:49.with his dad in Birmingham, but charities say there

:09:50. > :09:52.are still hundreds of unaccompanied children in the Jungle, many

:09:53. > :09:57.of which live in squalid conditions. Even though France and Germany

:09:58. > :10:00.have offered to house many of the migrants,

:10:01. > :10:02.they still want to come to the UK I asked a few Syrians that here,

:10:03. > :10:09.and they said it's because they speak English and they'd rather go

:10:10. > :10:11.to a country where English It's also because some of them have

:10:12. > :10:15.got friends and relatives who already live in Britain,

:10:16. > :10:19.so they are still prepared to try and get there,

:10:20. > :10:22.and to live in this awful place Many migrants attempt to hide

:10:23. > :10:27.themselves in cargo vehicles It's why, in September,

:10:28. > :10:35.work began on a 13-foot wall funded by the UK Government to try and stop

:10:36. > :10:38.migrants from stowing At the beginning of the year,

:10:39. > :10:45.half the camp was cleared, and that led to violence between law

:10:46. > :10:47.enforcement, protesters, This road marks the

:10:48. > :10:54.Jungle's new boundary. Everything to the south

:10:55. > :10:57.of it is going to be cleared out The irony is that migrants

:10:58. > :11:04.here are clinging on to makeshift shelters in a country most

:11:05. > :11:08.don't want to be in. Moving to official migrant camps

:11:09. > :11:10.with heat and electricity means These temporary shacks show

:11:11. > :11:18.their resolve not to settle here. So even now, if the Jungle

:11:19. > :11:21.is completely razed, as is planned, many say something similar

:11:22. > :11:25.will simply pop up somewhere else. That's because many of the migrants

:11:26. > :11:28.will stay in the area to get I will sleep on the street

:11:29. > :11:33.if they remove the camp. I will not move one

:11:34. > :11:38.inch from here. I have one hope, just to get

:11:39. > :11:49.to the UK, and I don't We can now speak to a number

:11:50. > :11:55.of people in Calais. Red Godfrey Sagoo, from Citizens UK

:11:56. > :11:59.who has been helping unaccompanied child migrants in the camp,

:12:00. > :12:03.Caroline Gregory from campaign group Calais Action, Pippa Hatton

:12:04. > :12:11.from the charity Doctors Of The World and Jean Marc

:12:12. > :12:13.Puissesseau, who is head of the camp as an early

:12:14. > :12:26.Christmas present for Calais. Why do you see this as an early

:12:27. > :12:30.Christmas present? It is a present because the presence of 10,000

:12:31. > :12:43.migrants close to the port, close to the highway, and migrants want to

:12:44. > :12:46.stop the lorries every night, and disturb our business. We are going

:12:47. > :12:51.to lose about 12 million turnover this year because of the migrants.

:12:52. > :12:59.You will very easily understand that the disbandment of the Jungle is

:13:00. > :13:04.good for us. We hope to work again peacefully and without any danger

:13:05. > :13:09.for our clients. Some migrants are saying they will not leave Calais.

:13:10. > :13:19.What will you do if that is the case? I think that some don't want

:13:20. > :13:21.to leave Calais. I think they have already left the Jungle to hide

:13:22. > :13:33.themselves somewhere in the neighbourhood of Calais. If the

:13:34. > :13:37.police force is not staying in Calais, what they have done now,

:13:38. > :13:44.dismantling it, will be a waste of time. It is essential that police

:13:45. > :13:50.forces stay in Calais and control if migrants come back and try again to

:13:51. > :14:01.get to your country. Are there any guarantees that will be the case?

:14:02. > :14:06.Yes, we have had a guarantee from the Home Office minister. The police

:14:07. > :14:11.force will stay in Calais and migrants that are intercepted will

:14:12. > :14:15.be controlled and I hope they will be sent to an international centre

:14:16. > :14:26.or back to their countries if they don't understand that is no way to

:14:27. > :14:33.get to England, illegally. I want to bring in the other is that we are

:14:34. > :14:37.talking to. Read, you are there in the cab, what are people saying

:14:38. > :14:44.about whether they want to leave or to stay? -- in the camp. There are

:14:45. > :14:49.couple of issues here. Folks are lining up to take the next step but

:14:50. > :14:52.I think there is also concern about when they go through the

:14:53. > :14:55.registration process, the uncertainty of whether legal rights

:14:56. > :15:01.will be afforded to them on the other side. That is not just for the

:15:02. > :15:06.Dublin and Dubbs applicants, but those seeking asylum in France.

:15:07. > :15:11.There needs to be recognition that the demolition itself has uniformly

:15:12. > :15:16.been agreed by everybody, it had to happen, because this is no way for

:15:17. > :15:19.human beings to live. The other side of it is there needs to be a

:15:20. > :15:21.long-term solution to the crisis itself, not just in Calais but

:15:22. > :15:35.across Europe in general. We have seen dramatic newspaper

:15:36. > :15:40.pictures of resistance there. What's the prospective that you have and

:15:41. > :15:47.what are people saying to you? Everything is very calm and peaceful

:15:48. > :15:50.here today. There was some tear gas last night, but that is fairly

:15:51. > :15:56.standard. There is tear gas many times a week. There has been no

:15:57. > :16:00.particular protests against the demolition specifically. So I think

:16:01. > :16:04.that's rather false advertising if you like that there has been any

:16:05. > :16:13.specific protests relating to the demolition. Pippa Doctors Of The

:16:14. > :16:18.World, is closure the right thing and it being handled in the right

:16:19. > :16:21.way? A refugee camp is never the answer, but if it is being handled

:16:22. > :16:25.in the right way that's difficult to say because the information we're

:16:26. > :16:29.receiving is limited. There are centres that the people are being

:16:30. > :16:35.taken to, we don't know where they are, let alone what the fal silts

:16:36. > :16:37.have. And for us, this is a humanitarian emergency and the

:16:38. > :16:44.response at the moment is very political. For us, obviously, the

:16:45. > :16:48.prime factor is healthcare. People's physical and mental health really

:16:49. > :16:54.need to be taken into consideration. And it just seems that's not really

:16:55. > :17:00.happening. And also, the thing there are many people who will choose to

:17:01. > :17:04.stay or find a way to stay or will come back to the camp and then they

:17:05. > :17:10.will be left with really, really squalid conditions, even fewer

:17:11. > :17:14.facilities, we have had it before when we've been working here when

:17:15. > :17:21.there were people with no running water. Skin and respiratory

:17:22. > :17:27.infections were rife and that's likely to happen again. Do you have

:17:28. > :17:31.sympathy for the migrants there? Well, you know, that's about 15

:17:32. > :17:36.years we have migrants in Calais so we have a lot of sympathy. We are

:17:37. > :17:41.not at all against the immigrants, but we are completely against the

:17:42. > :17:47.facts that they are dangerous. Some of them are very dangerous. They

:17:48. > :17:53.have knives and try to sometimes try to attack drivers. They are throwing

:17:54. > :17:56.everything on the trucks at the driver. They are very dangerous and

:17:57. > :18:01.we cannot accept that migrants who want to get to England disturb our

:18:02. > :18:08.business. We can't understand that they are being suffering in their

:18:09. > :18:13.countries. We cannot accept that they are disturbing our business.

:18:14. > :18:20.They are destroying the image of Calais as a peaceful town. I want to

:18:21. > :18:24.bring in Red. Do you share those concerns? Do you think that some of

:18:25. > :18:33.the migrants have not gun good enough neighbours in Calais? I think

:18:34. > :18:36.there has to be a balance on this on the subject itself. We have been in

:18:37. > :18:43.Calais for a year and even the local papers up until like a few days ago,

:18:44. > :18:48.they did polls and 50% of the Calais cap passion say they understand this

:18:49. > :18:53.has to be a long-term solution and that you cannot just apply a band

:18:54. > :18:58.aid by demolish k the camp, there has to be a balanced approach. The

:18:59. > :19:09.praoumry focus has to be safeguarding of the minors who are

:19:10. > :19:13.here which is the moment the British taking some on. There is sympathy

:19:14. > :19:16.all-round for the local population, for the businesses, and for the

:19:17. > :19:20.refugees and the migrants themselves. The thing that we're

:19:21. > :19:25.trying to stress is that, it should not be, we shouldn't have wait add

:19:26. > :19:29.year to get to this point and on top of that, the minors have walked from

:19:30. > :19:32.other countries. So where were their legal rights at the beginning of

:19:33. > :19:39.their journeys before they got to this point?

:19:40. > :19:44.Thank you very much. May I add something as well? Briefly. We've

:19:45. > :19:49.lost the line. That's the point about the local businesses. We're

:19:50. > :19:54.struggling to hear you. We see want to go, thank you very much, but we

:19:55. > :19:58.want to go to our reporter Frankie McCamley who is outside lunar House

:19:59. > :20:02.in Croydon. It is the immigration centre where child refugees have

:20:03. > :20:06.been arriving. This morning, it was announced those transfers have been

:20:07. > :20:10.suss spended. What's the -- suspended and what's the reason and

:20:11. > :20:13.how long for? Well, what we have been told by the Home Office in the

:20:14. > :20:16.last hour, they have released a statement to say due to the

:20:17. > :20:20.operational activity in Calais at the request of the French

:20:21. > :20:24.authorities, we have reluctantly agreed that the transfer process

:20:25. > :20:29.will be temporarily paused for 24 hours. Now, it is unclear the number

:20:30. > :20:34.of children that, the number of child refugees that will be

:20:35. > :20:37.affected, but what we understand over the last week, 200 children

:20:38. > :20:42.arrived. There was an influx over the weekend. More than 100 children

:20:43. > :20:45.arriving here. They were coming on coaches. Arriving behind this big

:20:46. > :20:50.screen that's been erected behind me. The scaffolding put up following

:20:51. > :20:59.criticism of some of the children arriving. One MP calling for dental

:21:00. > :21:03.and hand x-rays to confirm the age of some of these children as they

:21:04. > :21:07.were arriving, but they come here. They have further identity checks

:21:08. > :21:10.like fingerprints taken. Then they go through the application process.

:21:11. > :21:16.That could last more about five or six hours. But what we are being

:21:17. > :21:20.told today is that no children from the jungle, the migrant camp, in

:21:21. > :21:25.Calais will be arriving here. That transfer process Joanna has been

:21:26. > :21:30.temporarily suspended. Frankie, thank you very much. A viewer

:21:31. > :21:36.e-mailed to say, "As a migrant myself, it is not surprising to see

:21:37. > :21:42.that all asl lum seekers want to come to the UK." . The assumption is

:21:43. > :21:47.the law can be bent to get free housing." Another viewer says, "Most

:21:48. > :21:50.people don't want anymore migrants." Thank you for your comments and keep

:21:51. > :21:55.them coming in on anything we are talking about. We will be talking

:21:56. > :22:01.about the fact that doctors are saying some of the most commonly

:22:02. > :22:06.used medical practises and procedures offer no benefit to

:22:07. > :22:07.patients. We ask doctors which treatments they think are the most

:22:08. > :22:11.pointless. Earlier on the programme we heard

:22:12. > :22:14.the devastating story of one family But even if the worst doesn't

:22:15. > :22:18.happen, the pressure on parents Maternity leave starts

:22:19. > :22:22.the moment your baby is born, which means if they stay in hospital

:22:23. > :22:25.for a long time - in some cases months and months and months,

:22:26. > :22:28.mothers lose out on time at home This week a campaign to extend

:22:29. > :22:31.maternity leave for mothers of premature babies will be

:22:32. > :22:34.heard in Parliament. Here's the story of one mum

:22:35. > :22:37.from Devon whose entire maternity I was relieved that he was alive,

:22:38. > :22:55.but I didn't truly understand what having a baby at 26

:22:56. > :22:58.weeks really meant. When I went into the intensive care

:22:59. > :23:06.unit, it was a big shock. It was the reality that I guess

:23:07. > :23:11.I never wanted. Seeing other children pass away,

:23:12. > :23:14.it was a massive reality to myself and my husband that that

:23:15. > :23:21.could have been our outcome. Henry has been unwell with his lungs

:23:22. > :23:26.and his heart. He also has a condition

:23:27. > :23:28.called hydrocephalus, which was the main issue

:23:29. > :23:32.when he was born prematurely. When he's been at the illest,

:23:33. > :23:35.we have prepared for him He has spent all his life

:23:36. > :23:47.in intensive care. I've been a social worker

:23:48. > :23:49.for just over five years. I wasn't aware that when Henry

:23:50. > :23:56.was born it would instantly I took the 12 months

:23:57. > :24:01.that I was entitled to. My maternity leave was completely

:24:02. > :24:10.taken up in hospital. I feel, I use the term slightly

:24:11. > :24:13.robbed of my right to spend time with my child at home,

:24:14. > :24:16.but that is my situation After parents have spent a period

:24:17. > :24:30.of time, a significant period of time, on a neo-natal unit,

:24:31. > :24:32.they need time to emotionally The way that it currently is,

:24:33. > :24:37.no sooner are they taken out of a traumatic situation,

:24:38. > :24:40.they then have to face the trauma of going back to work before

:24:41. > :24:42.they've even practically I was thinking about it last night,

:24:43. > :24:55.the first time I took Henry out on my own in his buggy

:24:56. > :24:59.was when he was 11 months old. The first time he breathed air

:25:00. > :25:04.was when he was nine months old. It might sound really bizarre

:25:05. > :25:07.to a person who was able to take their child home straightaway,

:25:08. > :25:11.but it was like a dream come true. The normal things we should

:25:12. > :25:13.be doing with a child, when you have a child,

:25:14. > :25:16.the expectations are gone, and so the 12 months

:25:17. > :25:18.I would have had off, Now I'm on sick leave,

:25:19. > :25:26.and that's not something I've ever had to do before,

:25:27. > :25:28.and that feels horrible. Why should I not have that time

:25:29. > :25:32.with my son that many, It's been beautiful in most

:25:33. > :25:44.of the moments, but in the most I can't describe it in any other

:25:45. > :25:51.way, it's literally I've had many conversations

:25:52. > :26:04.with other parents who have felt, I always refer to it as robbed,

:26:05. > :26:07.but who feel that they have Sitting in a hospital

:26:08. > :26:13.staring into an incubator, being kind of a mum

:26:14. > :26:14.because you're there, To be able to be a mum,

:26:15. > :26:25.and what you hope to be when you have a child or get

:26:26. > :26:27.pregnant, doesn't really start until you step out of the hospital

:26:28. > :26:30.doors and you come home, That's why this issue's

:26:31. > :26:38.so important. Let's talk now to Isobel Lambe

:26:39. > :26:40.and Daniel Bowman. Their daughter Matilda was born

:26:41. > :26:42.nine weeks premature. Isobel says being forced to go back

:26:43. > :26:46.to work earlier than she was ready to ultimately

:26:47. > :26:49.cost her her job and has led Casey Dean has five children -

:26:50. > :26:56.two of whom were born premature. The youngest of which Annabel

:26:57. > :27:00.was born last month and is currently on a ventilation system

:27:01. > :27:04.at a neo-natal clinic. Helen Kirrane is head of policy

:27:05. > :27:06.at the charity, Bliss. Bliss is a charity for premature

:27:07. > :27:08.and sick babies. Steve Reed the Labour

:27:09. > :27:10.MP for Croydon North who is going to ask for a change

:27:11. > :27:22.in the law in Parliament this week. To allow mums of premature babies to

:27:23. > :27:31.have longer maternity leave. Thank you for coming in. The lady in

:27:32. > :27:34.our film obviously had a particularly extreme experience, a

:27:35. > :27:40.terrible experience. I mean, you had a more typical experience, but very

:27:41. > :27:44.difficult nonetheless. Your daughter Matilda was premature and was in

:27:45. > :27:48.hospital for sometime. Tell us prior to that sudden arrival, what your

:27:49. > :27:52.expectation had been about maternity leave and how everything suddenly

:27:53. > :27:58.changed. My experience about maternity leave I guess was to

:27:59. > :28:04.finish a couple of weeks before she was due. Sort of spend time getting

:28:05. > :28:09.the house ready, doing, painting her bedroom, getting all of her nursery

:28:10. > :28:14.set-up and things like that and then to once she was born bring her home

:28:15. > :28:21.and be able to watch her develop within the comfort of her own home

:28:22. > :28:25.and you know be the one to change all of her nappies and things like

:28:26. > :28:30.that and for that not to be able to happen and to be able to do that, I

:28:31. > :28:35.think, was really, really hard. Really hard. Were you conscious of

:28:36. > :28:39.the fact that the clock is ticking when your child comes early and your

:28:40. > :28:46.maternity leave is being counted down? Yeah, very much so. She was

:28:47. > :28:51.only in for four weeks and we were told to expect her in until she was

:28:52. > :28:56.full-term, so we were lucky, but if she was in full-term that's two

:28:57. > :28:59.months out of the maternity leave and that's only seven months to be

:29:00. > :29:03.able to do things with her like most, you know, all families should

:29:04. > :29:08.be able to do with her. And take her out and show her off and you know,

:29:09. > :29:13.we weren't able to do that. So when you went back to work, did you feel

:29:14. > :29:17.like you went back prematurely? Yes. Technically, yes, it was nine

:29:18. > :29:20.months, but in reality she was only the size, she was only doing what a

:29:21. > :29:26.seven-month-old baby should be doing. She could only just sit up

:29:27. > :29:29.and things like that. So it was really, really difficult and with

:29:30. > :29:32.the mental health... You have been through something very difficult as

:29:33. > :29:35.well when you've been through that experience. Daniel, you were going

:29:36. > :29:40.through that as well and you had to go back to work... I was back in

:29:41. > :29:45.work the morning after she was born. She was born at five o'clock on the

:29:46. > :29:48.month and I was back in work at the ten o'clock on the Tuesday morning.

:29:49. > :29:56.What was going on in your head? I wasn't with it. But I have

:29:57. > :29:59.responsibilities to see learners and we had the decision when we knew she

:30:00. > :30:06.was going to be early that I would wait and take my leave when Ma

:30:07. > :30:10.little da came home otherwise I was spending my pa personity leave

:30:11. > :30:14.within the confines of a neo-natal unit. You've got five children.

:30:15. > :30:20.Three were born prematurely. The most recent child only three weeks

:30:21. > :30:24.ago. How is she? How are you? Well, she is doing as well as she can be

:30:25. > :30:31.at the Home Secretary. She has different stages of ventilation and

:30:32. > :30:35.she has come down off the big one. So we're very hopeful. But it

:30:36. > :30:42.changes from minute to hours, to days, to weeks and then you go back

:30:43. > :30:53.to square one again. So it is very traumatic. My hole family has been

:30:54. > :30:56.through hell the last 12 months. We only had Louis on Boxing Day and I

:30:57. > :31:03.spent all Christmas in hospital last year and I didn't see my other three

:31:04. > :31:10.children. It has been really hard and obviously Annabel was a shock.

:31:11. > :31:16.And was born just as premature. Sherp both born at 24 weeks. So they

:31:17. > :31:19.were 16 weeks earliment we were in hospital with Lucy for

:31:20. > :31:25.four-and-a-half months and it was a rollercoaster. We only came out at

:31:26. > :31:29.the end of April and from 19 weeks of being pregnant with Annabel we

:31:30. > :31:37.ended back in hospital because my waters had started. So I managed to

:31:38. > :31:42.get to 24 weeks, but it is hard. It is hard on me because I can't do

:31:43. > :31:45.much with her. And don't feel like I'm being a proper mum, but on the

:31:46. > :31:50.other hand it is hard on the whole family. I've got four children at

:31:51. > :31:52.home. So we're backwards and forwards from the hospital because

:31:53. > :32:03.she is not in our town. Steve, we are talking about this

:32:04. > :32:07.today because you want there to be a change in the law so that mothers

:32:08. > :32:12.like this get to have their maternity leave extended. Why is it

:32:13. > :32:15.so important? As we are hearing this morning, having a premature baby is

:32:16. > :32:19.one of the most restful and traumatic experiences that any

:32:20. > :32:23.parent can have. Maternity provisions assume that your child is

:32:24. > :32:26.born at full term and healthy, so there isn't the flexibility that

:32:27. > :32:30.parents with premature babies need to devote the time that they have to

:32:31. > :32:34.devote to their child's well-being. They are in a special care unit

:32:35. > :32:39.watching their child often fighting for its life and that can go on for

:32:40. > :32:44.weeks or months, and then to be told on top of that that you have a

:32:45. > :32:47.reduced period of maternity leave once your child comes home, that is

:32:48. > :32:53.traumatic for parents that have already suffered immensely but it is

:32:54. > :32:59.also damaging for the child who needs that time physically bonding

:33:00. > :33:03.with parents when that wasn't possible before when they were in an

:33:04. > :33:06.incubator with the lights flashing. How important have you found

:33:07. > :33:11.maternity leave to be for the mothers who have come into contact

:33:12. > :33:16.with? It is a really important issue. Mothers contact us about this

:33:17. > :33:20.very regularly. As we have heard, having a baby born premature or sick

:33:21. > :33:24.is very traumatic and it is also very expensive. The additional costs

:33:25. > :33:29.that families face when their babies are away from home, in the hospital,

:33:30. > :33:34.in terms of travel, accommodation to stay close to their baby, even food

:33:35. > :33:43.and drink at the hospital can be very pricey. The financial costs

:33:44. > :33:47.really add to the burden that parents face and at a time of such

:33:48. > :33:51.trauma, the last thing we want parents to be worrying about is

:33:52. > :33:54.whether they can afford to be with their babies in hospital and that

:33:55. > :34:02.precious bonding time at home with them afterwards as well. Casey, URI

:34:03. > :34:07.maternity right out because as we are hearing it kicks in the moment a

:34:08. > :34:13.baby is born. -- you are on maternity leave. How long are you

:34:14. > :34:17.hoping to have off? I am quite lucky because I work for myself so I am

:34:18. > :34:23.quite flexible. When I had the other little one I had to give up work. I

:34:24. > :34:28.was a registered nurse. I had to give up work because they couldn't

:34:29. > :34:32.keep the door open any longer than I had already had. Because he was born

:34:33. > :34:41.so early, I had to take maternity leave much earlier than I expected

:34:42. > :34:48.anyway, so it caused chaos. At the moment I am quite fortunate. I know

:34:49. > :34:53.other mothers on the unit and they are panicking about going back to

:34:54. > :34:58.work. It is true what they say. It is all about bonding. You try and

:34:59. > :35:01.bond. When you do get your baby home that is the time you should be

:35:02. > :35:06.bonding with your baby and I wasn't able to do that. I went back to work

:35:07. > :35:12.for a slight period of time but I just couldn't do it. I didn't feel

:35:13. > :35:17.like I was a to bond with him properly. What you are describing is

:35:18. > :35:22.similar to what ended up happening to you, isn't it? Do you think if

:35:23. > :35:27.you had had longer, if the law that Steve would like to see happening

:35:28. > :35:33.had been in place, would it have made a difference? I think it would.

:35:34. > :35:39.When I came out of hospital I found it really hard to start bonding with

:35:40. > :35:50.Matilda. For a month of her life, nurses were changing her and feeding

:35:51. > :35:54.her. As a mother, because you have had nurses doing that for you, you

:35:55. > :36:00.feel like you're not capable of doing that and you should have the

:36:01. > :36:05.nine months with your baby at home. So it is almost like a fresh start

:36:06. > :36:10.for you. Does it come down to a specific period of time? Is it just

:36:11. > :36:15.the fact that there is extra care and attention needed and a mother

:36:16. > :36:20.will have different requirements having been through the experience

:36:21. > :36:24.that we are hearing described? Generally babies stay in hospital

:36:25. > :36:29.for the length of time which they would have spent developing in the

:36:30. > :36:35.womb. So it is different for every baby and every family. But it is so

:36:36. > :36:40.important, as Isabel has said, to have that really important bonding

:36:41. > :36:48.time with your baby. It is important for the baby's health, and it is

:36:49. > :36:50.important for the parents' psychological health and well-being

:36:51. > :36:55.that they can be involved in their baby's care in hospital but also

:36:56. > :36:58.during that precious time at home, getting to know their baby,

:36:59. > :37:06.supporting them to develop, to set up, to start weaning, to do all the

:37:07. > :37:09.things that we take for granted normally. That precious time at home

:37:10. > :37:15.with your baby after they come out of hospital. Thank you. Some

:37:16. > :37:22.breaking news to bring you from Belfast Court of Appeal. We are just

:37:23. > :37:26.hearing that the Christian owned bakery Ashers which was found to

:37:27. > :37:33.have discriminated against a gay man for refusing to make a cake with a

:37:34. > :37:40.pro-gay marriage slogan has lost their appeal. We will bring you more

:37:41. > :37:44.on that later. The Christian owned bakery Ashers has lost its challenge

:37:45. > :37:48.at the Court of Appeal in Belfast. Still to come:

:37:49. > :37:50.Dozens of the most commonly used treatments offered

:37:51. > :37:53.by GPs and hospitals are pointless or overused, so say senior doctors.

:37:54. > :37:57.We'll be speaking to two doctors to find out why and what they are.

:37:58. > :38:02.Listen to me! Are you listening? OK, I am trying to wipe the floor. Give

:38:03. > :38:09.me a second. What was going on? Justin Bieber storms off stage

:38:10. > :38:11.in Manchester after the crowd booed him when he told them

:38:12. > :38:16.to stop screaming. Hundreds of French police officers

:38:17. > :38:23.and officials have started clearing the migrant camp in Calais known

:38:24. > :38:25.as the Jungle. Several thousand people have been

:38:26. > :38:28.living there while trying to cross This morning, many have been queuing

:38:29. > :38:35.to register to be taken to other parts of France where

:38:36. > :38:38.they can apply for asylum. The Home Office says the transfer

:38:39. > :38:41.of children to the UK from Calais camp has been temporarily paused

:38:42. > :38:51.at the request of France There needs to be a recognition that

:38:52. > :38:55.the demolition itself has been formally agreed by everybody. It had

:38:56. > :38:59.to happen because this is no way for human beings to live. The other side

:39:00. > :39:04.of it is ultimately there needs to be a long-term solution to the

:39:05. > :39:07.crisis itself, not just in Calais but across Europe in general.

:39:08. > :39:10.A British banker has pleaded not guilty to murdering two Indonesian

:39:11. > :39:12.women in Hong Kong on grounds of diminished responsibility.

:39:13. > :39:14.Prosecutors rejected an attempt by Rurik Jutting to enter a guilty

:39:15. > :39:16.plea on the lesser charge of manslaughter.

:39:17. > :39:19.The bodies of the Indonesian women were found at his

:39:20. > :39:25.Rurik Jutting, who's 31, faces life in prison if convicted

:39:26. > :39:27.in what is being described as Hong Kong's biggest murder

:39:28. > :39:40.Senior doctors have listed 40 treatments and procedures that they

:39:41. > :39:43.say offer little or no benefit to patients. The initiative is aimed at

:39:44. > :39:47.cutting down the number of unnecessary treatment. They include

:39:48. > :39:50.x-rays were lower back pain and plaster casts of children with small

:39:51. > :39:54.wrist fractures. That is a summary of the latest news.

:39:55. > :39:57.Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11 o'clock.

:39:58. > :40:00.Katherine is back now with the morning's sports headlines.

:40:01. > :40:03.England have this morning clinched victory in dramatic

:40:04. > :40:05.fashion in the first Test against Bangladesh.

:40:06. > :40:08.Man of the match Ben Stokes took the final two wickets in three balls

:40:09. > :40:11.as England secured the win by 22 runs on the final day's

:40:12. > :40:15.It was an afternoon to forget for Jose Mourinho as he returned

:40:16. > :40:20.to Chelsea for the first time since leaving the club last year.

:40:21. > :40:23.His United team were thrashed 4-0 at Stamford Bridge and stay seventh

:40:24. > :40:27.Celtic will play Aberdeen in the final of the Scottish League Cup

:40:28. > :40:33.Moussa Dembele scored a late winner against Rangers to earn

:40:34. > :40:36.Brendan Rodgers' side their second Old Firm victory of the season.

:40:37. > :40:43.And a 50th career race win for Lewis Hamilton at the US

:40:44. > :40:45.Grand Prix has cut Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg's Championship

:40:46. > :40:57.That is all the sport. Back to you. Thank you. Let's go straight to the

:40:58. > :41:01.Royal Courts of Justice in Belfast where a Christian owned Bakers has

:41:02. > :41:04.lost its appeal against a court judgment that it unlawfully

:41:05. > :41:09.discriminated against a customer when they refused to bake a cake

:41:10. > :41:13.with the slogan support gay marriage. Our correspondent is

:41:14. > :41:19.there. Tell us about the ruling. Yes, it is worth having a bit of

:41:20. > :41:22.background to this. Ashers baking company were approached by a client

:41:23. > :41:28.and they wanted them to bake this cake which had a message of support

:41:29. > :41:31.to same-sex marriage. The company is family-owned and they objected to

:41:32. > :41:35.that because they said it would seem like they support same-sex marriage

:41:36. > :41:40.in some way, which is still illegal in Northern Ireland as opposed to

:41:41. > :41:44.other parts of the UK. Today's judgment is very clear. It is an

:41:45. > :41:47.appeal against an earlier ruling that they had discriminated against

:41:48. > :41:51.the customer on the grounds of his political beliefs and sexual

:41:52. > :41:58.orientation. In simple terms the court said: Where they correct as a

:41:59. > :42:01.matter of law to hold discrimination? They were very

:42:02. > :42:05.clear. They said yes. They went through a range of options saying at

:42:06. > :42:09.one stage that it did not suggest in any way the company was supporting

:42:10. > :42:14.same-sex marriage, no more than it would if you put which is on a

:42:15. > :42:21.Halloween cake that you are somehow supporting witches. However there

:42:22. > :42:24.was support for the equality commission. The equality commission

:42:25. > :42:28.has supported this case and bringing it to court on the grounds of

:42:29. > :42:32.discrimination. There was a feeling from the cord that it should also

:42:33. > :42:36.have offered advice to the other side in this case. It should not be

:42:37. > :42:40.beyond the capacity of the commission to provide a range of

:42:41. > :42:43.advice to the appellants at an earlier stage and they hope in

:42:44. > :42:49.future such a course will be followed if such a situation were to

:42:50. > :42:52.arise in the future. It is a very clear judgment. Currently the two

:42:53. > :42:58.sides are inside and we expect them to come out soon to give statements.

:42:59. > :43:01.The issue was not settled and that will be settled probably in a week

:43:02. > :43:04.at a future court hearing. Thank you.

:43:05. > :43:06.The Prime Minister is holding talks on Brexit this morning

:43:07. > :43:08.with the leaders of the three devolved governments

:43:09. > :43:10.in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

:43:11. > :43:13.Our political guru Norman Smith is in Downing Street.

:43:14. > :43:20.Is it going to be a tough meeting? I think it is. Nicola Sturgeon is just

:43:21. > :43:25.arriving. Are you going to get a special deal, First Minister?

:43:26. > :43:31.Special deal for Scotland? Not much of an answer. It will be a crunch

:43:32. > :43:33.conversation with Theresa May, where not just Nicola Sturgeon but the

:43:34. > :43:39.leaders in Wales and Northern Ireland will set out their Brexit

:43:40. > :43:43.demands. What they want. All of the signs are that Mrs May will give

:43:44. > :43:47.them a cup of tea and they hobnob but not much more. She will listen

:43:48. > :43:52.to them, we will keep talking, she will set up some kind of hotline to

:43:53. > :43:56.David Davis, but they are not going to get their key demands. Let's go

:43:57. > :44:01.through what they are asking for. The first demand is single market

:44:02. > :44:07.membership, to remain part of the single market. But we already know

:44:08. > :44:10.that Theresa May has said she wants to ensure access to the single

:44:11. > :44:16.market but she doesn't seem that determined to make remaining a

:44:17. > :44:21.member critical red line. The second amount they have is a pre-deal vote.

:44:22. > :44:26.All of the devolved administrations want to have a vote before Mrs May

:44:27. > :44:30.enters the negotiating chamber, but she has already said we can't do

:44:31. > :44:33.that because it would tie my negotiating hands. I wouldn't be

:44:34. > :44:38.able to negotiate the deal I want because the rest of the EU would

:44:39. > :44:44.know what I am trying to get. The next key demand is a special deal

:44:45. > :44:49.for the devolved administrations. Though Scotland, for example, they

:44:50. > :44:53.might like not just to be part of the single market, they might like

:44:54. > :44:57.some freedom of movement, their own control over borders, they might

:44:58. > :45:00.like to be able to guarantee EU citizens their rights in Scotland.

:45:01. > :45:05.There would be special deals for different parts of the EU. A

:45:06. > :45:09.flexible Brexit. Number 10 saying this morning no wait, that is not

:45:10. > :45:13.happening. Mrs May is going to negotiate a UK wide deal for the

:45:14. > :45:18.whole of the UK. There will not be a pick and mix Brexit package. The

:45:19. > :45:23.last thing they are looking for is a say in the negotiations. They want a

:45:24. > :45:27.role in the detailed negotiations, so they are not just there to listen

:45:28. > :45:33.and talk, but actually to be part of the negotiations. Who is coming out

:45:34. > :45:39.now? Carwyn Jones. Good morning, Mr Jones. Are you looking for a special

:45:40. > :45:44.deal for Wales? We might have more luck when they leave, when they have

:45:45. > :45:50.had the conversations. But certainly going in, not much joy in getting

:45:51. > :45:54.answers from them. Good effort! She is going to say it is a UK wide

:45:55. > :45:59.steel but in the mix of all of this is Nicola Sturgeon saying she wants

:46:00. > :46:03.there to be a second referendum on Scottish independence.

:46:04. > :46:12.And that's the real leverage she has got over Theresa May if Scotland

:46:13. > :46:15.doesn't get what she wants she could trigger another referendum. People

:46:16. > :46:18.in Downing Street say look, people in Scotland they don't really want

:46:19. > :46:22.another referendum. They argue that Nicola Sturgeon has not answered the

:46:23. > :46:24.difficult economic questions on what sort of currency would an

:46:25. > :46:28.independent Scotland have? What would happen to the deficit in

:46:29. > :46:32.Scotland which is larger than the rest of the UK? What about the

:46:33. > :46:36.falling oil price? And they argue well, you know, actually Scotland

:46:37. > :46:41.relies more on trade with the rest of the UK than it does with the EU.

:46:42. > :46:46.So they basically think Nicola Sturgeon is bluffing. I have to say,

:46:47. > :46:49.her close allies insist not and they say they're going to look after

:46:50. > :46:54.Scotland's interests and if they can't get the Brexit deal they want,

:46:55. > :46:55.then they will trigger that second independence referendum. Thank you,

:46:56. > :46:59.Norman. Still to come: What's

:47:00. > :47:09.up with Justin? Listen to me. Are you listening? I'm

:47:10. > :47:14.trying to wipe the floor. Give me a second.

:47:15. > :47:23.Guys, I'm done. I'm not doing the show.

:47:24. > :47:27.SCREAMING He was a bit tetchy, wasn't he? We will be talking more

:47:28. > :47:30.and what's going on with Justin later on.

:47:31. > :47:33.Doctors have produced a list of more than 40 medical treatments

:47:34. > :47:35.and procedures which, they say, offer little or no

:47:36. > :47:52.We can speak to two doctors. Let's go through the treatments. Number

:47:53. > :48:01.one, women over 45 do not need a blood test to diagnose the

:48:02. > :48:05.menopause. Number two, x-rays are no real help to those with lower back

:48:06. > :48:12.pain, children with breathing problems usually get better without

:48:13. > :48:17.treatment. Chemotherapy maybe used to relieve terminal cancer and may

:48:18. > :48:21.well bring distress in the final months of life and electronic

:48:22. > :48:25.monitoring of a babies heart is only needed if the mother has a higher

:48:26. > :48:29.than normal risk of complications. That's five out of 40. Alan, what do

:48:30. > :48:36.you make of the list? Consultant in chronic pain if I can. I think it is

:48:37. > :48:40.important to highlight interventions that are the standard or the norm

:48:41. > :48:44.that are of questionable benefit in a minority, but may come with

:48:45. > :48:48.repercussions in the majority if applied unnecessarily. So

:48:49. > :48:52.Individually, a lot of those for example I deal with a lot of

:48:53. > :48:57.patients with chronic back pain. We know that x-rays and MRI scans

:48:58. > :49:02.aren't always beneficial in these patients you cans in the dig know

:49:03. > :49:06.cystic procedure as don't result in major changes in terms of how we

:49:07. > :49:11.manage them. Is there an element with reassuring a patient who wants

:49:12. > :49:16.to feel something is being done? And that it potentially does rule out

:49:17. > :49:19.something else? So I think the question of reassurance is a very

:49:20. > :49:25.important one and especially when it seems to be the gold standard for

:49:26. > :49:28.example again coming back to chronic pain which is a long-standing

:49:29. > :49:31.condition. We need to challenge how we would reassure patients and

:49:32. > :49:34.really start not doing things that are unnecessary and the evidence is

:49:35. > :49:41.that x-rays don't improve your ability to pick up unnecessary or

:49:42. > :49:44.important diagnoses when actually questions, specific questions can

:49:45. > :49:48.allow to you do that. In your surgery, do patients come in with an

:49:49. > :49:53.add of what they want you to do? Where is the pressure coming from

:49:54. > :49:57.for some of these things? People are a lot more informed now than they

:49:58. > :50:01.used to be with Google and people come with a list of investigations

:50:02. > :50:08.that they feel that they need for the conditions. For example, women

:50:09. > :50:12.who are feeling they are having menopausal symptoms, they will come

:50:13. > :50:17.in asking for a blood test and explaining why blood tests are

:50:18. > :50:22.unnecessary often, you are met with a reaction with the patient and they

:50:23. > :50:25.are happy to go away with the information you've offered them.

:50:26. > :50:29.There is few opportunities where, you know, a tense situation can

:50:30. > :50:33.arise if someone doesn't understand why we're maybe not doing the tests

:50:34. > :50:37.or the investigations that they were perhaps hoping for initially. Do you

:50:38. > :50:40.ever embark on a course of action with a patient that you do feel is

:50:41. > :50:45.going to be a waste of money? But you're doing it for reassurance

:50:46. > :50:49.purposes? I think it is important, this list is especially important at

:50:50. > :50:53.this stage. Complaints against doctors in health trusts are through

:50:54. > :50:59.the roof at moment. Medical indemnity fees for GPs especially

:51:00. > :51:03.are extortionate and there is always this cloud hanging over us of the

:51:04. > :51:05.impending complaint if we don't comply with everything that the

:51:06. > :51:11.patient asked us to do. I think we need to try and move away interest

:51:12. > :51:16.that defensive, compliant way of handling these kind of complicated

:51:17. > :51:20.situations and I mean occasionally you can high pos thighs with a

:51:21. > :51:23.patient if you were to go down this route, the investigation would be

:51:24. > :51:28.done but it may not help improve the outcomes or get you closer to the

:51:29. > :51:32.truth and often, like I said, met with a rational response from the

:51:33. > :51:35.patient so it can be helpful. In the past, there were situations where

:51:36. > :51:39.arguments have ensued with patients just looking for an antibiotic

:51:40. > :51:42.prescription for, you know, that ongoing viral cough that they have

:51:43. > :51:45.had and sometimes, you know, prescriptions are done for things

:51:46. > :51:48.like antibiotics, but with the advice that perhaps they're better

:51:49. > :51:53.off not taking them for that short while and seeing how things go. So,

:51:54. > :51:57.these are pressures that we have to deal with on a dauly basis. Do you

:51:58. > :52:00.think there is an element of it being a defensive form of practising

:52:01. > :52:03.because of concerns over negligence? There are always concerns over

:52:04. > :52:07.negligence, but actually the evidence is that these, you know,

:52:08. > :52:13.the five that you've listed don't improve patient safety. Add omitting

:52:14. > :52:17.these in most circumstances doesn't predispose doctors to harms of

:52:18. > :52:20.negligence. But I think the wider prospective, moving away from the

:52:21. > :52:23.cross benefit analysis and the litigation analysis of it, is this

:52:24. > :52:26.opens up a discussion between patients and their doctors about

:52:27. > :52:30.what, not just the final treatment is, but what the steps involved to

:52:31. > :52:32.get to that final treatment are and that's healthy. Thank you both very

:52:33. > :52:36.much. Thank you. And at 11.30am on BBC

:52:37. > :52:38.News Julian Worricker will be putting your questions

:52:39. > :52:40.to Baroness Ilora Finlay, the National Council for

:52:41. > :52:42.Palliative Care's Chair of Trustees. So please get in touch

:52:43. > :53:00.by tweeting your questions How has he gone from this? I can't

:53:01. > :53:02.believe we're here together and I want to play it cool.

:53:03. > :53:05.To this... The superstar walked off stage

:53:06. > :53:07.in Manchester after moaning about fans screaming

:53:08. > :53:31.whilst he talked. I hope it was to enjoy my company,

:53:32. > :53:38.but I feel like I want to connect with you. I think, my point of the

:53:39. > :53:42.no screaming thing is so that when I'm looking at you in the eyes so

:53:43. > :53:55.you know that we are having a moment and having a connection.

:53:56. > :53:58.Manchester, you guys are awesome. SCREAMING

:53:59. > :54:00.And I appreciate you. SCREAMING

:54:01. > :54:03.There has to be... Sinead Garven from Newsbeat joins us

:54:04. > :54:10.to try and make sense of it all. What's going on? He got frustrated

:54:11. > :54:13.with the shouting and this is something he has got annoyed about

:54:14. > :54:18.on the previous UK dates he has done. So in between songs, he likes

:54:19. > :54:23.to have a chat with the audience. But they all scream. All the way

:54:24. > :54:28.through. So you know, he started to get annoyed about this. Last night,

:54:29. > :54:31.he stormed off stage, but he came back quickly and as you saw there,

:54:32. > :54:34.he was sort of trying to explain, you know, he wants to have this deep

:54:35. > :54:37.connection with the fans and if like he can't hear because of the

:54:38. > :54:43.screaming. The trouble is, that's his fanbase.

:54:44. > :54:46.I guess he is looking for an Adele type consort when she speaks between

:54:47. > :54:51.the songs, everybody is listening and it is quiet, but she has a very

:54:52. > :54:58.different fanbase to Justin Bieber. He has the teenage fans, since the

:54:59. > :55:03.60s, they're hysterical and they can't help, but scream. He has been

:55:04. > :55:06.moaning before in bemplt he said, "Screaming is obnoxious. If you guys

:55:07. > :55:11.could scream after the songs and enjoy the songs and then at end, you

:55:12. > :55:16.know," Prescriptive screaming? Well, exactly. Teenage girls and teenage

:55:17. > :55:20.fans... It doesn't work. You can't do that. It is not the first time he

:55:21. > :55:26.walked off stage. Last year, I think we've got a clip of that. In Oslo he

:55:27. > :55:29.walked off stage as well. SCREAMING

:55:30. > :55:32.Are you all right? All right. I just need you guy to say get

:55:33. > :55:39.warmed up. What are you doing? No. No. Stop it. Come on, I said stop

:55:40. > :55:43.it. What are you doing? Come on, guys, yo, are you

:55:44. > :55:51.listening? I'm trying to wipe the floor. Give me a second.

:55:52. > :55:56.Guys, I'm done, I'm not doing the show. I'm not doing a show.

:55:57. > :56:01.Well, there he didn't come back on stage. He just left. He was

:56:02. > :56:04.frustrated by that one. How far into the concert was that? That was quite

:56:05. > :56:07.far in, I think, yeah. There was water on the floor and he was trying

:56:08. > :56:11.to mop it up, but he was close to the edge where the fans were. They

:56:12. > :56:16.are trying to sort of grab at him. Look, I was at the Radio 1 Teen

:56:17. > :56:20.Awards yesterday, I have got fresh memories of how loud teenagers can

:56:21. > :56:24.be when you know their idols are on stage. You know, they've paid a lot

:56:25. > :56:29.of money to go to the gigs. The argument is hang on if I've paid to

:56:30. > :56:33.come here, don't tell me to shut up. He is an artist who has been a child

:56:34. > :56:38.on the stage performing and he's trying to grow up and you know have

:56:39. > :56:41.a more adult fanbase, I guess, but that's a very hard thing to do

:56:42. > :56:44.because he is taking those teenagers with him. The question is are they

:56:45. > :56:51.going to start to turn away from him? There were beam booing? There

:56:52. > :56:58.were. If you look at social media as a gauge of what the reaction is, it

:56:59. > :57:02.was very, very mixed of the. There was a hashtag started respect

:57:03. > :57:05.Justin. Others with the argument I paid money, like don't tell me to be

:57:06. > :57:11.quiet, this is my big night out. If I want to scream all the way through

:57:12. > :57:15.it, I'm allowed to. It is mixed. I don't think this will be the turning

:57:16. > :57:20.point of people going away from him. He is so hugely popular. He's living

:57:21. > :57:26.in London now? Splitting time, North London. There was some amazing

:57:27. > :57:32.pictures of a house he's supposedly renting which has a marble bath and

:57:33. > :57:36.ten swimming pools. Screaming fans outside? Yes, if the papers are

:57:37. > :57:39.anything to go by, we know where it is as well!

:57:40. > :57:45.All right, thank you very much, Sinead, thank you.

:57:46. > :57:51.Lots of you getting in touch with the conversation we had about

:57:52. > :57:58.premature babies. Stefany on Facebook, "I gave birth to my baby

:57:59. > :58:04.son this June this year. He was born at 26 weeks. My husband returned

:58:05. > :58:09.back to work. I couldn't have the support. I was lonely and exhausted.

:58:10. > :58:13.I hope changes are made for the future families of premature

:58:14. > :58:22.babies." That's on the maternity leave. Hannah texting, "I'm 11 weeks

:58:23. > :58:24.short on my maternity pay because my baby is so small." Thank you for

:58:25. > :58:27.your comments. On the programme tomorrow,

:58:28. > :58:30.an interview with Strictly Come