31/01/2017

:00:00. > :00:08.I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:00:09. > :00:10.This morning, when adoptions break down.

:00:11. > :00:13.Families who've had to make the heart-breaking decision to hand

:00:14. > :00:26.She got kicked, thumped, things like that, quite a lot.

:00:27. > :00:30.And quite a lot of emotional abuse to her as well.

:00:31. > :00:35.Yeah, and this is from a four, five-year-old kid.

:00:36. > :00:41.And we'll hear from other parents who say they're struggling to cope.

:00:42. > :00:44.If you've adopted a child and you're experiencing problems,

:00:45. > :00:56.If you have got over problems, tell us how you did it.

:00:57. > :00:58.Plus, this baby chimp has been rescued after traffickers tried

:00:59. > :01:01.Its parents had been deliberately killed

:01:02. > :01:33.We'll bring you the full story before 10am.

:01:34. > :01:39.And, a legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children

:01:40. > :01:41.out of school for holidays during term time reaches the highest

:01:42. > :01:51.We'll speak to the father at the centre of the case.

:01:52. > :01:56.Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news

:01:57. > :01:59.And as always, really keen to hear from you.

:02:00. > :02:02.After 10am we'll be hearing how a primary school in Bournemouth has

:02:03. > :02:04.started allowing pupils to wear their comfy slippers

:02:05. > :02:08.in class, after research found it helps them to get better grades

:02:09. > :02:10.and generally improve their performance.

:02:11. > :02:14.If you work from home, you might already know that's the case.

:02:15. > :02:22.If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:02:23. > :02:26.Donald Trump has sacked the United States' top legal advisor

:02:27. > :02:30.after she questioned the legality of his travel ban.

:02:31. > :02:33.Acting Attorney-General Sally Yates, who'd been appointed

:02:34. > :02:38.by Barack Obama, said she couldn't defend the decision to stop refugees

:02:39. > :02:46.and citizens of seven Muslim countries from entering America.

:02:47. > :02:49.Donald Trump's controversial travel ban is facing resistance

:02:50. > :02:55.After a weekend of mass protests, chaos at airports and a diplomatic

:02:56. > :02:59.outcry came an unusual act of defiance on the part

:03:00. > :03:06.Sally Yates, appointed US Attorney General by Barack Obama,

:03:07. > :03:09.said in a letter to lawyers at the Justice Department that

:03:10. > :03:13.given her responsibility to ensure that the government stands

:03:14. > :03:29.Deeming that an act of betrayal, Mr Trump promptly sacked her,

:03:30. > :03:33.installing Dana Boente as the new Attorney General.

:03:34. > :03:36.Pending the swearing-in of Mr Trump's preferred candidate,

:03:37. > :03:40.Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, whose confirmation has been delayed

:03:41. > :03:46.Sally Yates is not alone in her misgivings, though.

:03:47. > :03:50.Barack Obama said in a statement that he fundamentally disagreed

:03:51. > :03:53.with the notion of discriminating against individuals on the basis

:03:54. > :03:59.US diplomats have also registered their concerns,

:04:00. > :04:02.leading to this tongue lashing from the White House.

:04:03. > :04:05.If these career bureaucrats have a problem with it,

:04:06. > :04:09.I think that they should either get with the programme, or they can go.

:04:10. > :04:13.Later today, Mr Trump is due to announce his pick for a place

:04:14. > :04:16.The choice, he said, was one that would appeal

:04:17. > :04:26.He may also be hoping it leads to some better headlines.

:04:27. > :04:29.Our correspondent Richard Lister is here.

:04:30. > :04:34.What is the significance of the Attorney-General role?

:04:35. > :04:41.It is a big deal. The Attorney General is one of the top four

:04:42. > :04:45.cabinet positions, they are seen as one of the guardians of the

:04:46. > :04:49.Constitution. Although they are appointed by the president, their

:04:50. > :04:55.first duty is to protect the Constitution, and it is up to that

:04:56. > :04:59.person to defend Government laws at the Supreme Court, should they face

:05:00. > :05:03.challenges. We know that the President's executive order on

:05:04. > :05:06.immigration has been challenged by various courts, and it is likely it

:05:07. > :05:11.will end up in the Supreme Court. Sally Yates could have resigned

:05:12. > :05:14.quietly, she knows she will not stay, the president already has

:05:15. > :05:19.another Attorney General lined up, he is going to the procedure. She

:05:20. > :05:25.knew she would not be able to stay, she decided to make a fuss and say,

:05:26. > :05:27.I don't believe this order is lawful, I don't believe Government

:05:28. > :05:30.lawyers should defend it, and I will not defend it.

:05:31. > :05:32.Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:05:33. > :05:36.A French-Canadian student has appeared in court in Quebec,

:05:37. > :05:38.charged with the murder of six Muslim worshippers who were shot

:05:39. > :05:42.Alexandre Bissonnette, who's 27, did not speak

:05:43. > :05:47.He faces six counts of murder and five of attempted murder.

:05:48. > :05:49.Vigils have been held across Canada in memory

:05:50. > :05:55.The prospect of the UK leaving the European Union will move a step

:05:56. > :06:00.closer today when MPs begin debating the bill that will give Theresa May

:06:01. > :06:04.The Government was forced to draw up the legislation

:06:05. > :06:07.after being overruled in the Supreme Court.

:06:08. > :06:09.Some Labour MPs and the SNP have said they'll vote

:06:10. > :06:16.Adoption organisations have told this programme that a cap on funding

:06:17. > :06:19.for specialist therapy could lead to a rise in the number

:06:20. > :06:23.The Adoption Support Fund, which provides financial help

:06:24. > :06:28.for therapy, was cut last October to ?5,000 per child.

:06:29. > :06:31.Agencies are concerned that without sufficient funds to help

:06:32. > :06:34.children from disadvantaged backgrounds, families

:06:35. > :06:39.And later in this programme, we'll be hearing from families

:06:40. > :06:42.about their experience of adoption, and from some who've had to make

:06:43. > :06:46.the difficult decision to hand back their children.

:06:47. > :06:50.A network of wildlife traffickers selling baby chimpanzees as pets has

:06:51. > :06:54.been exposed by a year-long BBC News investigation.

:06:55. > :06:56.The research uncovered a notorious West African hub

:06:57. > :06:59.for wildlife trafficking, and led to the rescue

:07:00. > :07:03.The animals are seized from the wild and sold through corrupt

:07:04. > :07:09.officials and middlemen for about ?10,000 each.

:07:10. > :07:12.A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children

:07:13. > :07:15.out of school for term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court today.

:07:16. > :07:22.The case will have ramifications for families across England.

:07:23. > :07:26.Isle of Wight businessman John Platt says dozens of parents get

:07:27. > :07:31.in touch with him every day about term-time holiday finds.

:07:32. > :07:36.He decided to fight it all the way and says he has no regrets

:07:37. > :07:38.after taking his daughter to Disneyland when she had 90%

:07:39. > :07:44.The legal row is about what going to school regularly means.

:07:45. > :07:48.I believe it meant attending school frequently or very often

:07:49. > :07:59.but their position is it means every day.

:08:00. > :08:01.That is the most-draconian interpretation of this legislation

:08:02. > :08:05.Councils from the Isle of Wight to the north of England

:08:06. > :08:13.The rules say if a head declares an absence unauthorised the local

:08:14. > :08:18.council can find each parent ?60 per child.

:08:19. > :08:22.That fine can double if it's not paid within 21 days.

:08:23. > :08:26.Ministers say exam results shape children's futures and missing

:08:27. > :08:29.even a few days can make a clear difference.

:08:30. > :08:34.It's important because young people only get one chance

:08:35. > :08:38.at their education and one week, two weeks out of that can make

:08:39. > :08:41.an enormous difference in the progress they're able to make

:08:42. > :08:45.in any given year and overall in terms of their education.

:08:46. > :08:48.35 councils have told the BBC they've revised their guidance since

:08:49. > :09:00.The Supreme Court will make a decision within months.

:09:01. > :09:03.Scientists say they may have found the oldest human ancestor,

:09:04. > :09:05.a microscopic sea creature, with a bag-like body

:09:06. > :09:08.They've been studying fossilised traces of

:09:09. > :09:12.the 540-million-year-old creature in China.

:09:13. > :09:15.The sea animal is the earliest-known step on the evolutionary path

:09:16. > :09:21.that led to fish and, eventually, to humans.

:09:22. > :09:24.Peter Capaldi has announced his plans to hang up his sonic

:09:25. > :09:25.screwdriver and step down from Doctor Who.

:09:26. > :09:28.He will leave the Tardis for the last time during this

:09:29. > :09:30.year's Christmas Special, saying he feels it's

:09:31. > :09:44.Leaving us in need of a new Time Lord.

:09:45. > :09:46.Peter Capaldi will hand over the sonic screwdriver at the end

:09:47. > :09:55.He shocked fans with last night's announcement on live radio.

:09:56. > :09:58.I've always been somebody that did a lot of different things,

:09:59. > :10:00.I've never done one job for three years.

:10:01. > :10:02.This is the first time I've done this.

:10:03. > :10:11.And I feel it's sort of time for me to move on to different challenges.

:10:12. > :10:13.And it means a familiar challenge for the show.

:10:14. > :10:16.Now in its 54th year, with millions of fans,

:10:17. > :10:35.Regular regeneration has become the hallmark of a time traveller

:10:36. > :10:42.The new Doctor Who will be number 13.

:10:43. > :10:50.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:10:51. > :11:05.Many messages from you on adoption, we will explore in detail the

:11:06. > :11:08.reasons why some adoptions breakdown, completely unaware there

:11:09. > :11:14.are so many positive examples, and I note you will give us some. One

:11:15. > :11:21.person says, many traumatised adopted teams end up involved in the

:11:22. > :11:25.criminal justice system. Jamie says, you are the only people focusing on

:11:26. > :11:30.this, we need to ask why the care system does not help. Hannah says,

:11:31. > :11:34.all I see negative stories, it would be great to see a successful

:11:35. > :11:36.adoption story. I was brought up by the best adoptive parents I could

:11:37. > :11:38.have wished for. Do get in touch with us

:11:39. > :11:40.throughout the morning, If you text, you will be charged

:11:41. > :11:44.at the standard network rate. Let's get some sport now,

:11:45. > :11:47.and John Watson is at the BBC We'll start with the FA Cup draw,

:11:48. > :12:00.and what a game in store Two non-league sides through for the

:12:01. > :12:04.first time, and they have been rewarded with some fast it games in

:12:05. > :12:07.the fifth round. This was the moment Sun United realised they were

:12:08. > :12:15.playing the 12th time winners Arsenal. Fantastic scenes of the

:12:16. > :12:21.draw was made. Arsenal and their superstars will be making the trip

:12:22. > :12:25.to Sultan, the capacity there is just 5000. They play on an

:12:26. > :12:30.artificial pitch. This was them knocking out Leeds United at the

:12:31. > :12:35.weekend. Their capacity 55,000 less than Arsenal. It is an incredible

:12:36. > :12:40.draw and a special moment for them, as it is for Lincoln City, the other

:12:41. > :12:46.non-league side in the draw. They knocked out right in at the weekend,

:12:47. > :12:51.they will play against Burnley. This was their victory at the weekend

:12:52. > :12:56.over Brighton, 3-1. They have been rewarded with that much against

:12:57. > :12:59.Burnley. Wolverhampton North East out Liverpool at the weekend, and a

:13:00. > :13:06.credible result. They have been rewarded with a much at Molineux

:13:07. > :13:10.against the Premier League table toppers Chelsea. Some great matches,

:13:11. > :13:13.you can see the draw in full on the BBC sport website.

:13:14. > :13:17.Can we expect a lot more business from what we have

:13:18. > :13:30.Plenty, we should see records surpassed again, it was 225 million

:13:31. > :13:35.in this window in 2011, we are expecting to see that surpassed, we

:13:36. > :13:42.are at 150 million already. The biggest deal is not a purchase by a

:13:43. > :13:48.Premier League club, it is Dimitri Payet moving to Marseille for 25

:13:49. > :13:52.million, that is the biggest so far. Saido Berahino left West Brom for

:13:53. > :13:57.Stoke City 14 million, Morgan Schneiderlin moved to Everton for 24

:13:58. > :14:01.million, and with the transfer window closing at 11pm, we can

:14:02. > :14:10.expect more moves coming. You can follow it all on social media. And

:14:11. > :14:15.there is a special programme on BBC Radio five Live, Mark Chapman

:14:16. > :14:19.following all of the moves as they happen until 11pm. My boys are

:14:20. > :14:24.wondering what to do with their Dimitri Payet West Ham shirt is now!

:14:25. > :14:27.Expensive times! It is 50 quid, unbelievable!

:14:28. > :14:29.Finally, John, there may be a few angry runners who ran

:14:30. > :14:44.They were 150 metres short of the exact instance, the 13.1 miles

:14:45. > :14:49.required. Everybody who competed, anybody who completed a personal

:14:50. > :14:54.best, all of those records have been wiped because they are 150 metres

:14:55. > :14:58.short. They went out on Sunday after concerns that the distance was not

:14:59. > :15:04.quite right, and that proved to be the case, the course was 150 metres

:15:05. > :15:08.short, so they will be disgruntled, because they have to go back to

:15:09. > :15:12.training if they want to try to meet that achievement again. The

:15:13. > :15:17.organisers, what were they doing? Have you ever heard of anything like

:15:18. > :15:22.this? I can imagine somebody is getting told off.

:15:23. > :15:26.This morning, are adoptive parents being failed?

:15:27. > :15:31.Failed because they're not given the full picture of the trauma

:15:32. > :15:33.and damage their child has already experienced, failed because there

:15:34. > :15:35.isn't enough support when things go wrong,

:15:36. > :15:37.and failed because schools can't always cope with

:15:38. > :15:43.Throughout the programme today, we'll hear from families who've

:15:44. > :15:47.adopted and are struggling, and some who've had to make

:15:48. > :15:50.the agonising decision to hand back their child.

:15:51. > :15:53.Adoption UK estimate around a quarter of adoptive families

:15:54. > :15:56.are "in crisis" and finding it hard to keep their family together.

:15:57. > :16:00.A generation or so ago most children who were adopted were those born

:16:01. > :16:03.outside of marriage or to teenage mums, whereas now it's more likely

:16:04. > :16:06.they'll have been born to a mum addicted to drugs or alcohol,

:16:07. > :16:09.or will have witnessed domestic violence or trauma.

:16:10. > :16:15.Those early formative few months and years can have a huge impact

:16:16. > :16:19.on the child as they grow up, causing untold problems.

:16:20. > :16:22.Now, an Adoption Support Fund which was meant to help pay

:16:23. > :16:26.for intensive and expensive therapy has been capped.

:16:27. > :16:29.Our reporter Lesley Ashmal has been looking what happens

:16:30. > :16:38.I'd always wanted to adopt children, even if I'd had my own.

:16:39. > :16:41.You just feel that it's been made that much harder, A,

:16:42. > :16:45.by the training you have to go through to be adoptive

:16:46. > :16:48.parents and then, you know, to the point that you don't get

:16:49. > :16:51.the help and support that you should have.

:16:52. > :16:56.It felt like failure, it felt like letting this kid down.

:16:57. > :16:59.And how can you do this to your own son, that you really love?

:17:00. > :17:14.It's hard to imagine what it must be like to give

:17:15. > :17:21.Parents could have fought for years for them.

:17:22. > :17:23.To become an adoptive parent you have undergone rigorous tests,

:17:24. > :17:34.But often the real challenge begins when the match is approved.

:17:35. > :17:38.Adoption breakdown - or disruption, as it's sometimes called -

:17:39. > :17:41.happens when a child either goes back into care or leaves

:17:42. > :17:45.One adoption charity thinks as many as a quarter

:17:46. > :17:48.of all families are in crisis, needing help to keep

:17:49. > :17:57.But they are often struggling to get the help they need.

:17:58. > :18:00.Rob, which isn't his real name, and his wife have

:18:01. > :18:06.children of their own, but they adopted three siblings.

:18:07. > :18:08.The reports warned the eldest had problems but nothing prepared

:18:09. > :18:22.She got kicked, thumped, things like that, quite a lot.

:18:23. > :18:27.And quite a lot of emotional abuse to her as well.

:18:28. > :18:30.Yeah, and this is from a four, five-year-old kid.

:18:31. > :18:35.And we were just shell-shocked, really.

:18:36. > :18:38.What was the trauma like on you and your wife?

:18:39. > :18:43.Well, my wife really shows the sort of symptoms you'd expect

:18:44. > :18:45.from someone who's suffered domestic abuse at times.

:18:46. > :19:03.I mean, it's clear that it's still so raw.

:19:04. > :19:15.I ended up with quite serious depression.

:19:16. > :19:19.I almost got sacked because I was taking a lot

:19:20. > :19:22.of time off work with, you know, just dealing

:19:23. > :19:32.And, yeah, very close to a breakdown, I think.

:19:33. > :19:38.He just became untenable, which was why we finally had to ask

:19:39. > :19:40.the local authority to step in and move him back

:19:41. > :19:47.For us, you know, it felt like failure, it felt

:19:48. > :19:53.And how can you do this to your own son, that you really love?

:19:54. > :20:00.It was, you know, a heartbreaking decision.

:20:01. > :20:06.His adoptive son had lived with them for nine years.

:20:07. > :20:09.It's not known how many adoptions break down,

:20:10. > :20:14.no national records are kept, but the estimated figure varies

:20:15. > :20:20.from just over 3.2% to, according to one charity, nearly 9%.

:20:21. > :20:24.It's known that children who are adopted when they are older

:20:25. > :20:33.than four are 13 times more likely to struggle in a new family.

:20:34. > :20:35.Professor Julie Selwyn has written the definitive research

:20:36. > :20:44.It's whether they want to be adopted, if they are older,

:20:45. > :20:49.and how long they've been exposed to adversity in their life.

:20:50. > :20:52.I suppose what they've learned is that adults aren't very caring,

:20:53. > :20:56.that adults can't meet their needs, and they find it's difficult

:20:57. > :21:02.Liz, which isn't her real name, adopted two sisters.

:21:03. > :21:08.The eldest was nine and never really settled into a new family.

:21:09. > :21:17.The anger was just off the scale sometimes.

:21:18. > :21:24.It was physical, it became physical, initially it was verbal abuse.

:21:25. > :21:30.It was just a whole catalogue of not just bad behaviour,

:21:31. > :21:33.and I appreciate what you have to try to do as an adoptive parent

:21:34. > :21:37.is try and sort of differentiate what is normal teenager behaviour

:21:38. > :21:43.and what is a result of where they've come from.

:21:44. > :21:45.It affects every aspect of your life, it's not just

:21:46. > :21:49.within your little unit, it's beyond that.

:21:50. > :21:53.It can be work, the effects on your work.

:21:54. > :21:56.I lost my business, had to give up my business because the stress

:21:57. > :22:01.And, in a way, you sort of feel a bit of bitterness.

:22:02. > :22:03.Not towards the daughter, but because of the whole

:22:04. > :22:14.This is when the older daughter, when she first came,

:22:15. > :22:17.and we felt it was important to keep, as they changed through

:22:18. > :22:21.Are you optimistic that maybe in several years' time things

:22:22. > :22:22.will resolve itself, maybe there'll be

:22:23. > :22:32.I mean, we've already got a grandchild.

:22:33. > :22:34.We haven't got that yet because we need to get...

:22:35. > :22:37.We're going to get a nice professional photograph done,

:22:38. > :22:40.so that can be part of the family photos.

:22:41. > :22:45.Liz's daughter is now 18 and a mother herself.

:22:46. > :22:47.She still calls her adoptive parents mum and dad,

:22:48. > :22:56.It was difficult because it was a change, do you know what I mean,

:22:57. > :22:59.and was a change that I'd never had before, especially when

:23:00. > :23:02.So it was different, and that's what made it difficult,

:23:03. > :23:08.You know, you don't know what to expect, really,

:23:09. > :23:11.Because you're still a child, you're still, you know...

:23:12. > :23:16.It was just strange on the parent side, because you've got

:23:17. > :23:17.new parents, and that's a weird feeling, like.

:23:18. > :23:21.Because things did go wrong, didn't they?

:23:22. > :23:24.Yeah. It was mainly my adoptive mum.

:23:25. > :23:27.My adoptive daddy works a lot and my little sister,

:23:28. > :23:29.she was in nursery and primary school.

:23:30. > :23:36.We clashed a bit because I didn't really let go of what I do

:23:37. > :23:38.remember as a child, my first six years

:23:39. > :23:43.And, obviously, for her that was hard, for me not

:23:44. > :23:51.That was, you know, that was the main reason why we did clash.

:23:52. > :23:54.Do you think you were badly behaved sometimes?

:23:55. > :23:57.Obviously I was, most children are, you know, at times.

:23:58. > :24:02.She might have thought I was a nightmare sometimes,

:24:03. > :24:07.The children that I see around me, I see now as an adult

:24:08. > :24:12.Do you know what I mean, I wasn't awful, I didn't go

:24:13. > :24:15.round burning buildings or nothing like that, you know what I'm

:24:16. > :24:25.There are about 87,000 children in care in the UK.

:24:26. > :24:28.Those who've no chance of returning to their birth families can be

:24:29. > :24:37.Every year, about 5500 are successfully placed.

:24:38. > :24:41.They've usually been abused, neglected.

:24:42. > :24:43.And a whole range of abuse, from physical abuse,

:24:44. > :24:59.Often their mums have misused alcohol or drugs during pregnancy

:25:00. > :25:01.so that they are born withdrawing from drugs at the time

:25:02. > :25:04.And that's obviously going to have an impact

:25:05. > :25:06.on their relationship with their new adoptive parents?

:25:07. > :25:09.Professor Selwyn says specialist therapy is needed for youngsters

:25:10. > :25:25.So how do you think this story is going to end?

:25:26. > :25:27.And how do you think it's going to end?

:25:28. > :25:30.Catchpoint is such a place, helping both children and parents adjust.

:25:31. > :25:33.We start from the point of view of working with the parents

:25:34. > :25:37.We want to have an attachment to focus.

:25:38. > :25:40.We don't want the children to form an attachment to the therapist,

:25:41. > :25:44.we want them to form an attachment to their parents.

:25:45. > :25:50.So what we set up at Catchpoint is we're supporting the parents

:25:51. > :26:02.as well as including them in the therapy.

:26:03. > :26:09.I think without the therapy I personally would be

:26:10. > :26:17.I would be, I think, forced to look at and use other

:26:18. > :26:18.parenting techniques which are just

:26:19. > :26:28.And will quite possibly make things worse.

:26:29. > :26:31.The trouble is specialist therapy like this is expensive.

:26:32. > :26:34.England has the Adoption Support Fund.

:26:35. > :26:35.In its first year it helped 3500 families,

:26:36. > :26:46.But demand has been so high the fund's now been capped

:26:47. > :27:04.These parents wrote to us about their fears.

:27:05. > :27:06.We've two adopted children who were traumatised.

:27:07. > :27:09.And the Adoption Support Fund has been a lifeline to us.

:27:10. > :27:11.Without the therapy it's paid for, our family

:27:12. > :27:15.The therapy has actually given us hope, but we're only starting

:27:16. > :27:17.to scratch the surface and the funding cap has

:27:18. > :27:21.Our two adopted children have been diagnosed

:27:22. > :27:25.A therapy plan was put together, but in November we were told

:27:26. > :27:28.about the new funding cap and it may not even cover the cost

:27:29. > :27:32.The therapy for our children will cost about ?30,000.

:27:33. > :27:44.If they don't get help now, it could be too late.

:27:45. > :27:46.Many interventions for these children need a lot more

:27:47. > :27:54.This is therapy that needs to be ongoing and will cost

:27:55. > :28:00.Particularly for these children, who've got very entrenched

:28:01. > :28:08.The Government stresses it is committed to helping

:28:09. > :28:15.vulnerable children and their adoptive parents.

:28:16. > :28:17.They declined to be interviewed but issued this statement,

:28:18. > :28:20."We want more families to benefit from The Adoption Support Fund,

:28:21. > :28:23.which is why we're looking at how we can distribute it more fairly

:28:24. > :28:26.We plan to increase the fund's budget every

:28:27. > :28:36.Everyone says adoptions are far, far better for children

:28:37. > :28:38.than remaining in care, and most adoptions are successful.

:28:39. > :28:46.Those who've suffered simply want a more help for people like them.

:28:47. > :28:50.The pain of adoption breakdown is so vivid in this letter Rob

:28:51. > :28:53.wrote to his young son who was returned to care.

:28:54. > :28:56.It was too painful for him to read himself, so his words

:28:57. > :29:07.I really want you to know that, as I'd guess that sometimes it's

:29:08. > :29:14.I want you to know that I'm there, fighting for you as hard as I can.

:29:15. > :29:17.I don't know how much you remember of your early days with us.

:29:18. > :29:20.I remember that you didn't want me in your life at all.

:29:21. > :29:24.I remember the first time that you ever let me hug you.

:29:25. > :29:27.You'd been with us for over seven months and not let me hug you.

:29:28. > :29:34.I remember that so clearly, because I love you, kid.

:29:35. > :29:38.We had such hopes of what we could give,

:29:39. > :29:52.The saddest bit for me is that we gave everything

:29:53. > :29:55.that we had, but the people that we thought were going to be

:29:56. > :29:57.backing us up and giving the bits that we couldn't,

:29:58. > :30:15.If you've adopted a child, do get in touch with your experience.

:30:16. > :30:23.Positive or otherwise. Particularly if you had problems what was it that

:30:24. > :30:28.helped overcome those problems? It is clearly, as we saw from the

:30:29. > :30:33.film, really, really hard adopting a child from a damaged background. If

:30:34. > :30:36.a child is taken from their birth family then more often than not it

:30:37. > :30:39.is because there are some damaging circumstances in which they're being

:30:40. > :30:43.brought up. After 10am we will look at the cut

:30:44. > :30:45.to the Oi doption Support Fund and what impact it could have on

:30:46. > :30:49.families in need. If you want to read more about it,

:30:50. > :30:52.there's a BBC News article Chris Akabusi has got in touch, he

:30:53. > :31:13.was brought up in care, he says... This tweet says, it is modern

:31:14. > :31:44.adoption, the young person... It says, we kept strong as a couple

:31:45. > :31:49.and remained firm with the system. We are now happy to have our amazing

:31:50. > :31:53.son. To get in touch in the usual ways, we will feed your pertinent

:31:54. > :31:55.experiences into the conversation after 10am.

:31:56. > :31:58.This baby chimp has been rescued after traffickers tried

:31:59. > :32:01.We'll bring you full details of our investigation

:32:02. > :32:10.into the illegal trade in baby chimpanzees.

:32:11. > :32:14.That film is amazing, in the next few minutes.

:32:15. > :32:16.Asylum seekers are being housed in dirty, rat-infested homes

:32:17. > :32:19.in the UK, conditions which have been described as

:32:20. > :32:22.We'll be talking to the chair of the committee

:32:23. > :32:31.Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:32:32. > :32:34.President Trump has fired the Acting US Attorney General, saying she had

:32:35. > :32:37.betrayed her department by refusing to enforce his travel ban for seven

:32:38. > :32:44.Sally Yates had told her lawyers not defend the executive order

:32:45. > :32:47.he signed on Friday, as it might not be legal.

:32:48. > :32:49.Ms Yates had been appointed by President Obama.

:32:50. > :32:51.Mr Trump said his opponents in the Democratic Party

:32:52. > :32:55.Meanwhile, a former head of the Foreign Office has accused

:32:56. > :32:57.Theresa May of putting the Queen in "a very difficult position"

:32:58. > :33:00.by inviting President Trump to make a state visit to the UK.

:33:01. > :33:03.Lord Ricketts said it should be downgraded to an official visit

:33:04. > :33:09.Thousands of people joined anti-Trump protests in London

:33:10. > :33:14.A petition calling for his trip to be cancelled has gathered more

:33:15. > :33:20.A French-Canadian student has appeared in court in Quebec,

:33:21. > :33:24.charged with the murder of six Muslim worshippers who were shot

:33:25. > :33:28.Alexandre Bissonnette, who's 27, did not speak

:33:29. > :33:34.He faces six counts of murder and five of attempted murder.

:33:35. > :33:36.Vigils have been held across Canada in memory

:33:37. > :33:41.MPs will today hold their first debate on the Government's bill

:33:42. > :33:45.to trigger the formal process of leaving the EU.

:33:46. > :33:48.The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has given his party strict orders

:33:49. > :33:50.to support the measure, but some Labour MPs have said

:33:51. > :33:55.they will join the SNP in voting against it.

:33:56. > :33:58.A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children

:33:59. > :34:02.on term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court today.

:34:03. > :34:05.Five judges will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council,

:34:06. > :34:07.which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter

:34:08. > :34:10.to Florida without her school's permission.

:34:11. > :34:18.Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court and won.

:34:19. > :34:22.We will hear from him and other parents and teachers affected at

:34:23. > :34:24.around 10:30am. Peter Capaldi is stepping

:34:25. > :34:26.down from the role of He shocked fans by making

:34:27. > :34:29.the announcement during an interview The actor, who has been

:34:30. > :34:33.in the role since 2013, That's a summary of

:34:34. > :34:51.the latest BBC News. More comments, emotional watching

:34:52. > :34:55.about adoption breakdown. This e-mail, we have had our adoptive son

:34:56. > :34:59.for two years, it was very challenging for the beginning but

:35:00. > :35:02.now he has adapted to us fantastically, our relationship

:35:03. > :35:05.feels so natural, sometimes we forget he is not our natural son.

:35:06. > :35:07.John Watson is here again now with the morning's sport headlines.

:35:08. > :35:10.Two non-league sides into the fifth round for the first time

:35:11. > :35:14.One of those, Sutton United, have been rewarded with a dream tie

:35:15. > :35:18.This was the moment they found out who they will be facing.

:35:19. > :35:21.Arsenal and their superstars making the trip to Gander Green Lane, where

:35:22. > :35:31.5,000 the capacity, 55,000 less than the Emirates.

:35:32. > :35:33.Lincoln's reward for beating Brighton of the Championship

:35:34. > :35:35.is a tie away to Burnley of the Premier League.

:35:36. > :35:39.The side who top the National League were 3-1 winners last weekend.

:35:40. > :35:42.The January transfer window closes at 11pm tonight with Premier League

:35:43. > :35:46.spending expected to surpass the record from January 2011.

:35:47. > :35:49.The biggest deal so far is that of Dimitri Payet,

:35:50. > :35:52.who has moved from West Ham to Marseille for ?25 million.

:35:53. > :35:55.But with plenty of time left for deals to be done today,

:35:56. > :36:02.And, England received a boost ahead of their defence of the Six Nations,

:36:03. > :36:05.with prop Joe Marler set for a comeback for the

:36:06. > :36:11.grand-slam champions against France on Saturday.

:36:12. > :36:21.It's about a secret network of wildlife traffickers

:36:22. > :36:24.selling baby chimpanzees - a network finally exposed

:36:25. > :36:32.after a year-long BBC News investigation.

:36:33. > :36:35.The tiny, charming, adorable creatures are seized

:36:36. > :36:44.Two suspected animal smugglers have been arrested in Ivory Coast.

:36:45. > :36:47.Our science editor David Shukman uncovered a notorious West African

:36:48. > :36:51.hub for wildlife trafficking, known as the "blue room",

:36:52. > :36:55.and led to the rescue of a one-year-old chimp

:36:56. > :37:11.Captured from a jungle in West Africa.

:37:12. > :37:14.Orphaned after poachers killed its family, and now

:37:15. > :37:24.Chimps are in danger, so exporting them is illegal.

:37:25. > :37:27.But they are so adorable, they are wanted as pets

:37:28. > :37:36.During a year-long investigation, we were sent these videos by dealers

:37:37. > :37:43.offering to sell the tiny animals for about ?10,000 each.

:37:44. > :37:46.The chimps are destined for a life of captivity

:37:47. > :38:01.It's a cruel trade, and we've worked to expose it.

:38:02. > :38:04.Our research led us to Ivory Coast, and a secret

:38:05. > :38:15.We got in touch with a dealer called Ibrahima Traore.

:38:16. > :38:17.He sent us a video of a crate specially made

:38:18. > :38:23.He'd use animals you are allowed to export to provide cover

:38:24. > :38:42.He then met a colleague of ours who was pretending to be a buyer,

:38:43. > :39:33.Ibrahima spelled out his prices in dollars.

:39:34. > :39:37.Then we had to wait for the deal itself.

:39:38. > :40:01.While we negotiated over social media.

:40:02. > :40:05.This video confirmed that he had a chimpanzee ready for export.

:40:06. > :40:16.The recording used our fake name and the correct date.

:40:17. > :40:19.Ibrahima even showed his face on camera,

:40:20. > :40:24.Apparently not worried about incriminating himself.

:40:25. > :40:34.Our undercover team got ready to see the chimp for themselves.

:40:35. > :40:39.But we weren't going into this alone.

:40:40. > :40:41.We briefed Interpol and the police in Ivory Coast,

:40:42. > :40:50.Our undercover journalist was going to meet Ibrahima to see

:40:51. > :40:59.the animal before confirming the deal, and we were following.

:41:00. > :41:12.Our undercover colleague is in a car in front of us,

:41:13. > :41:15.and he's following the dealer in a taxi who's meant to be

:41:16. > :41:19.leading him to his house where the chimpanzees are.

:41:20. > :41:23.We are in convoy with the police, and we are told it'll be about 30

:41:24. > :41:33.This was the pivotal moment in the investigation,

:41:34. > :41:39.If we got too close, we risked being seen.

:41:40. > :42:06.A tracking device helped to guide us along a highway.

:42:07. > :42:09.A call from our undercover team ahead of us.

:42:10. > :42:12.We were leaving the highway and heading into a maze of dusty

:42:13. > :42:27.Using a hidden camera, our undercover colleague filmed his

:42:28. > :42:54.His cover story was that he needed proof for a client in Indonesia.

:42:55. > :43:16.And everyone there denied knowing anything about it.

:43:17. > :43:41.Detectives charged through the neighbourhood.

:43:42. > :43:59.Minutes later, the police got their man.

:44:00. > :44:14.He is facing charges related to wildlife trafficking,

:44:15. > :44:17.along with his uncle, Mohammed.

:44:18. > :44:20.The police then focused on his family's house.

:44:21. > :44:34.And a search led them to a small room, where they found a crate

:44:35. > :44:50.So the police have just made all of these arrests.

:44:51. > :44:52.It's pretty edgy here, the atmosphere, and

:44:53. > :44:56.A baby chimpanzee taken from the jungle.

:44:57. > :45:00.The real tragedy of this trade is that to get one infant

:45:01. > :45:03.chimpanzee out of the jungle, all of the adults in its family have

:45:04. > :45:07.to be killed, that's as many as ten adults slaughtered just to get one

:45:08. > :45:24.We'd been advised not to touch the chimp until

:45:25. > :45:48.So, for a few agonising moments, he was all alone.

:45:49. > :45:53.The police then made a major discovery.

:45:54. > :46:00.That this house was a key centre of chimpanzee trafficking.

:46:01. > :46:04.For years, when investigators have been looking for clues

:46:05. > :46:06.about smuggled chimpanzees, they've often seen these blue tiles

:46:07. > :46:08.in the background of the videos offered by the traders.

:46:09. > :46:11.Well, this is it, what everyone calls the blue room.

:46:12. > :46:13.It's like a holding centre for animals on their way

:46:14. > :46:32.The chimpanzee was taken away into the care of wildlife officials.

:46:33. > :46:42.Many here were beginning to take the side of the men

:46:43. > :46:51.The atmosphere was becoming more tense.

:46:52. > :46:57.The police told us that we all had to go.

:46:58. > :47:01.In the back of a car, the baby chimp watched nervously.

:47:02. > :47:10.A new chapter in his short life was about to begin.

:47:11. > :47:13.Hungry but safe at the zoo in Abidjan.

:47:14. > :47:16.The keepers gave him a name, Nembly Junior.

:47:17. > :47:27.The trauma he's been through May have caused lasting damage.

:47:28. > :47:30.Will Travers is here, the president of the Born Free Foundation,

:47:31. > :47:32.an international charity which campaigns to protect

:47:33. > :47:43.What do you think? Well, it is a shocking report. Well done, David.

:47:44. > :47:47.Well done the authorities for bringing this to the world's

:47:48. > :47:50.attention. It is something which has been bubbling around for a long

:47:51. > :47:54.time, but it never got this airspace before and it is a big trade. It is

:47:55. > :47:59.not an isolated incident. This isn't one chimpanzee. Official estimates

:48:00. > :48:02.about 400 chimpanzees have been trafficked since 2005 and if that

:48:03. > :48:07.statistic that David gave us, ten dead for every one that makes it,

:48:08. > :48:12.that's 4,000 chimpanzees that have been killed to traffic those 400.

:48:13. > :48:17.David, referred at the end to, you know, lasting trauma on this

:48:18. > :48:23.chimpanzee because of what it had experienced. What, you know, what

:48:24. > :48:28.sort of impact will that have on a chimpanzee, it sounds bizarre saying

:48:29. > :48:31.it like that, it will, won't it? We watched the film and we see an

:48:32. > :48:35.almost little human being and we imagine the trauma that animal may

:48:36. > :48:40.have suffered and maybe seeing his entire family wiped out. There are

:48:41. > :48:44.specialist sanctuaries in Africa that specialise in chimpanzees and

:48:45. > :48:47.they know what to do, this isn't a unique occurrence, but it is hard to

:48:48. > :48:52.imagine how much that little baby has suffered. How many chimps are

:48:53. > :48:55.left in the wild now, do we know? Between 300,000 and 400,000. It is

:48:56. > :49:03.difficult to get estimates. That number is going down? That number is

:49:04. > :49:08.in decomplain, all the great apes are in decline except for the great

:49:09. > :49:13.mountain gorilla. What can we do? I'm sickened by what we see on

:49:14. > :49:16.Instagram, where we see people having photographs taken by an

:49:17. > :49:20.exotic animal. Don't do that. That's is a way that the traffickers

:49:21. > :49:24.eventually earn money, by charging people for those photographs and

:49:25. > :49:33.secondly, we've got to get to grips with illegal trade. They need the

:49:34. > :49:36.resources to tackle this issue. Is that cash from governments, from

:49:37. > :49:42.charities, what? Yes, it is cash, sort of cash from anywhere, but what

:49:43. > :49:47.they need to do, I believe, is to know trade and chimpanzees and in

:49:48. > :49:53.endangered species should take place even if it is from zoo to zoo unless

:49:54. > :49:56.it is personally investigated and awe then ti kates the permits and

:49:57. > :50:02.certificates involved. Thank you very much. Thank you. My

:50:03. > :50:07.pleasure. Will Travers president of the Born Free Foundation.

:50:08. > :50:09.On Monday we're holding a special programme looking

:50:10. > :50:13.We'll be looking at the problems it's facing and asking

:50:14. > :50:20.If you work in the NHS - a doctor, a nurse or a consultant -

:50:21. > :50:22.or you're a patient with recent experience, we'd love you to take

:50:23. > :50:34.It's in central London on Monday, 6th February.

:50:35. > :50:36.E-mail victoria@bbc.co.uk to register your interest and one

:50:37. > :50:41.Asylum seekers are being housed in rat-infested homes in the UK,

:50:42. > :50:49.conditions which have been described as "disgraceful" by MPs.

:50:50. > :50:56.These pictures are from Glasgow and they have been provided to us by the

:50:57. > :51:01.Scottish Refugee Council show some examples of what the MPs are talking

:51:02. > :51:04.about. The politicians' report

:51:05. > :51:17.focuses on accommodation The accommodation we're showing you

:51:18. > :51:19.now is provided by a different company.

:51:20. > :51:21.We were invited to view G4S homes in Sheffield.

:51:22. > :51:24.The company chose to let us in, so they obviously chose one

:51:25. > :51:27.The homes we were shown, which were for men only,

:51:28. > :51:29.housed about five people from countries including Sudan,

:51:30. > :51:32.As part of G4S' contract with the Government,

:51:33. > :51:40.the company is supposed to provide safe, habitable accommodation -

:51:41. > :51:42.but the report after a year-long investigation cited G4S as one

:51:43. > :51:45.of the poorer providers of housing, and our reporter Chi Chi Izundu put

:51:46. > :51:48.some of the report's findings to one of its senior staff.

:51:49. > :51:51.We have a cleaning contractor who cleans properties for us.

:51:52. > :51:53.Every single day they are going into properties to clean them.

:51:54. > :51:56.The service users who live in the properties also

:51:57. > :52:01.have a responsibility to keep the properties clean.

:52:02. > :52:04.And we go over and beyond in that respect to give them cleaning

:52:05. > :52:12.products, so that's not part of our contract but we do that.

:52:13. > :52:15.But what is down to G4S and what is part of your contract

:52:16. > :52:17.is you guys are supposed to provide furnished living.

:52:18. > :52:20.In some cases cited in this report, people didn't have beds,

:52:21. > :52:24.they were given a mattress and that's it.

:52:25. > :52:27.There was a case where a young woman was given a baby's cot frame,

:52:28. > :52:35.Some of the comments that have been made in the report are anecdotal,

:52:36. > :52:48.we don't have clear information around those particular cases.

:52:49. > :52:51.I would say to you that if anybody rings in to complain about issues

:52:52. > :52:54.such as a lack of bedding or, like you say, cots that are not

:52:55. > :52:56.properly equipped, then we would be addressing that immediately.

:52:57. > :52:59.I think the vulnerable people that have lived in these properties,

:53:00. > :53:01.when they've complained to your service centres,

:53:02. > :53:05.There's even a quote saying "If you do this, it will backfire,"

:53:06. > :53:08.Absolutely, and I don't recognise that.

:53:09. > :53:11.I am in that service centre every single week,

:53:12. > :53:18.If I ever heard anybody talking in that way then there would be

:53:19. > :53:21.an investigation to find out exactly what the content of that

:53:22. > :53:23.conversation was, but I do not recognise the quote

:53:24. > :53:35.G4S' managing director for immigration and borders

:53:36. > :53:43.As well as the Labour MP Yvette Cooper who's in charge

:53:44. > :53:46.of a group of Mps who've been looking into the issue.

:53:47. > :53:48.And from Middlesbrough, we have Joel Mebara who spent time

:53:49. > :53:51.living in a G4S property whilst he was an asylum seeker -

:53:52. > :53:54.Joel now has refugee status and no longer lives in a G4S property.

:53:55. > :53:58.Good morning. Thank you for coming on the programme. Would you live in

:53:59. > :54:01.a house infested with rats, mice and bed bugs? No, of course, I wouldn't.

:54:02. > :54:03.Why do you expect other people to do that then? I don't. I'm responsible

:54:04. > :54:07.for 4,000 properties in our contract areas, it covers the Midlands and

:54:08. > :54:10.the north-east of England. Across those 4,000 properties they are

:54:11. > :54:14.regularly inspected. I think it was the Chief Executive of Serco who

:54:15. > :54:18.described these as the most inspected properties. Does that mean

:54:19. > :54:23.the inspectors are missing the rats and the mice and the bed bugs? Every

:54:24. > :54:28.year we conduct 50,000 inspections and top of those inspections the

:54:29. > :54:34.Home Office inspection team conducts a further 1500. What point are you

:54:35. > :54:39.making? There are some houses with rats and mice and bed bugs in? Every

:54:40. > :54:46.time we have an inspection That's one heck of a defect, is it? Isn't

:54:47. > :54:50.it? Of those things that need to be addressed, 3,000 are phoned through

:54:51. > :54:53.from the asylum seekers, the rest we find from our own inspections and

:54:54. > :54:58.every time there is an issue, be it a bed bug or need for additional

:54:59. > :55:01.bedding or a blocked drain, we address them. The issue is not the

:55:02. > :55:05.fact that things go wrong in a house, they go wrong in my house,

:55:06. > :55:11.they go wrong in every house, but the requirement we have to address

:55:12. > :55:15.them which we do. Yvette Cooper, do talk to him. We heard evidence from

:55:16. > :55:20.the providers about what they were doing, the problem is we also heard

:55:21. > :55:22.just too many stories from all over the country about the kinds of

:55:23. > :55:26.things that you talked about, whether that was about rodents or

:55:27. > :55:31.the bed bugs or about unclean conditions. Now, I'm sure there are

:55:32. > :55:35.some excellent examples of very good accommodation being provided, but

:55:36. > :55:39.when you have so many examples that we were hearing of just awful

:55:40. > :55:43.conditions and particularly for pregnant women or for people who

:55:44. > :55:45.have been victims of torture, I think it is just a disgrace that

:55:46. > :55:49.anybody should have to live in conditions like that. And I think

:55:50. > :55:53.that the problem for us is we heard a lot of evidence about that there

:55:54. > :55:59.are lots and lots of inspections happening, they're not dealing with

:56:00. > :56:01.those problems. Therefore, our recommendation was that the

:56:02. > :56:04.inspection regime should be passed over to local authorities so they

:56:05. > :56:08.can do the inspections instead. Are you inspecting your own properties?

:56:09. > :56:11.We inspect our properties and the Home Office inspect our properties

:56:12. > :56:15.and the Home Office have an inspection regime. Last year over

:56:16. > :56:18.550 inspections took place from local authorities. Each one of those

:56:19. > :56:21.inspections had a list of defects, a defect might be that an individual

:56:22. > :56:26.needed medical treatment. It might be that there was a blocked

:56:27. > :56:33.lavatory. Whatever they find, it is our obligation to address it and we

:56:34. > :56:36.do so and so I think there are about 107,000 defects ranging from large

:56:37. > :56:42.and serious to small, all of which were addressed. So they are all

:56:43. > :56:47.addressed, Yvette Cooper? That's not what we found. There is a reality

:56:48. > :56:52.gap here. Asylum seekers were saying, I have complained about it.

:56:53. > :56:55.I can't stop crying and I can't eat because of the mouldy smell. I'm

:56:56. > :57:00.five months pregnant and I'm scared I will have to raise my child in

:57:01. > :57:06.this way with dirt and vermin. I feel anything could happen. What you

:57:07. > :57:09.also get is people who are afraid to complain because they're afraid that

:57:10. > :57:14.somehow maybe if they complain about the accommodation well that will

:57:15. > :57:17.affect their asylum claim or are just worried or don't know what the

:57:18. > :57:21.system is for raising complaints and concerns. So you've got to have that

:57:22. > :57:26.additional support in place as well. But I think, look, the sense that we

:57:27. > :57:29.had is for all of this talk about the number of inspections and the

:57:30. > :57:33.number of problems that are being solved, we just found too many cases

:57:34. > :57:37.where it just wasn't working and that is the problem when you've got

:57:38. > :57:42.vulnerable people being left living in these conditions. If I can

:57:43. > :57:47.address the point of access to complaints. I'm not sure of contact

:57:48. > :57:51.from the asylum seekers. Over 3,000 people will call our free helpline

:57:52. > :57:56.this month. Yesterday, we had a call from somebody who had a chip pan so

:57:57. > :58:00.we are relocating those individuals. The evidence is that asylum seekers

:58:01. > :58:04.are prepared to make contact with us and remember as well as having a G4S

:58:05. > :58:09.welfare officer, they have a dedicated Home Office case worker

:58:10. > :58:14.who looks after their asylum claimment I have no influence or

:58:15. > :58:17.interest in the application which the asylum seekers have as to

:58:18. > :58:22.whether or not they are agranted asylum is not anything to do with

:58:23. > :58:26.the providers such as G4S or Serbing co, it is the Home Office. Snaou

:58:27. > :58:29.know that and I know that, but for a lot of them they don't know that and

:58:30. > :58:32.they're fearful and that's the problem and I think the other thing

:58:33. > :58:36.is you talked about the number of complaints and so on that you've

:58:37. > :58:39.had, well, there are obviously a lot of other cases that are never making

:58:40. > :58:44.it to complaints in the first place, so you're dealing with a high level

:58:45. > :58:47.of complaints, and that in itself should raise concern about what is

:58:48. > :58:51.happening and about the sort of standard of accommodation and

:58:52. > :58:54.whether it is reaching the high enough standards in enough places, I

:58:55. > :58:58.don't doubt that there are some very good levels of acam dougs. I'm

:58:59. > :59:01.fearful that there are too many examples of just really unfit and

:59:02. > :59:06.unfair accommodation that people are being put in. It sounds like you're

:59:07. > :59:11.rejecting that? I'm saying that all of the accommodation which we have

:59:12. > :59:17.is given to us by landlords. Local authorities have to give us

:59:18. > :59:21.permission to take this property. I am inspected by the Home Office and

:59:22. > :59:27.by the local authority. Where there is fault I must mend it. Where the

:59:28. > :59:32.asylum seek erases to raise a defect, it is not a complaint, that

:59:33. > :59:36.something has gone wrong with their house as well as my house. Yesterday

:59:37. > :59:39.I received two letters both from MPs from Sheffield asking me toll

:59:40. > :59:46.investigate specific cases which I will.

:59:47. > :59:53.You were an asylum seeker. You have refugee status, tell us about living

:59:54. > :00:03.in G4S accommodation. I have to say the house is in quite poor condition

:00:04. > :00:12.and we sometimes have messy carpet without a hoover to clean it. And

:00:13. > :00:16.the house is full of cockroaches, bed bugs, so it's quite a difficult

:00:17. > :00:21.place to live in. And have you complained? I have complained a few

:00:22. > :00:35.times. What was done? They said they would send someone to

:00:36. > :00:43.look at it, but they never did. I had you talking about inspection. I

:00:44. > :00:50.stayed in a house for two years, I never had an inspection in the house

:00:51. > :00:56.I was living in. Respond to what he said. Very distressing. I would like

:00:57. > :01:01.to have the opportunity to look into this, it is hard for me to pass

:01:02. > :01:08.comment on individual cases. Where there is an issue raised, we have to

:01:09. > :01:14.look into it. Everything is put onto a database that the Home Office

:01:15. > :01:17.addresses. Were I not to meet a defect or a complaint, I would be

:01:18. > :01:23.subject to sanctions from the Home Office. Nobody has done anything

:01:24. > :01:30.there for two years. Rather like with the anecdote and the comments

:01:31. > :01:36.in the report, I am not sure that represents the whole picture. I have

:01:37. > :01:40.over 100 people in his area and into north-east looking after people like

:01:41. > :01:45.him, and they are not businessmen, they full-time professionals, with

:01:46. > :01:50.ten or 20 years experience, and four of our welfare officers are

:01:51. > :01:55.themselves asylum seekers, so when the team visited Sheffield is today,

:01:56. > :02:00.they had the chance to talk about -- to talk to one of our officers, an

:02:01. > :02:05.asylum seeker. It sounds like Lionel. I do not put all of the

:02:06. > :02:09.responsibility on you, because I think there are problems in the

:02:10. > :02:13.contracting system come at the Home Office has to take responsibility.

:02:14. > :02:18.But it has been too easy, whether it is for the BBC, for us or for other

:02:19. > :02:23.people, to find so many cases where the standards are not being met, so

:02:24. > :02:26.something is not working, whether it is in your inspection system or the

:02:27. > :02:28.Home Office system or the way in which the accommodation has been

:02:29. > :02:35.provided. The latest news and sport in a

:02:36. > :02:47.moment. First, the weather. A cloudy day, with rain moving from

:02:48. > :02:53.the West towards the east. It will be on and off through the course of

:02:54. > :02:56.the day, and cloud in between, dampness and drizzle. The sunshine

:02:57. > :03:01.will be at a premium, but the best place is in Northern Ireland. It

:03:02. > :03:09.will brighten up, with just a few showers. It is mild for the West and

:03:10. > :03:12.south. Through the evening and overnight, rain will push over

:03:13. > :03:17.England and Wales, hitting across southern parts of Scotland. Some

:03:18. > :03:20.clear skies across Scotland and Northern Ireland. We could see a

:03:21. > :03:27.small touch of Frost, nothing too substantial. Tomorrow, we start with

:03:28. > :03:32.this rain moving off into the North Sea. Behind, a veil of cloud, but

:03:33. > :03:35.some will break through the day. Sunshine will come through, before

:03:36. > :03:36.the next band of patchy rain and a strengthening wind from the

:03:37. > :03:41.north-west. Hello, it's Tuesday, 10am,

:03:42. > :03:44.I'm Victoria Derbyshire. Thousands of children

:03:45. > :03:47.are successfully adopted each year, but a small number of cases

:03:48. > :03:50.tragically end in failure. We hear why some adoptive parents

:03:51. > :03:55.return their child into care. For us, you know, it

:03:56. > :03:57.felt like failure. And how can you do this to your own

:03:58. > :04:08.son, that you really love? We'll also look at the capping

:04:09. > :04:11.of the Adoption Support Fund and what impact it could have

:04:12. > :04:15.on families in need. Also today, this baby chimp has been

:04:16. > :04:24.rescued after traffickers tried We'll bring you a special report

:04:25. > :04:31.from the BBC's year-long investigation into the selling

:04:32. > :04:33.of baby chimps, the killing of their families and the arrests

:04:34. > :04:48.of the traffickers involved. Detectives charged to the

:04:49. > :04:55.neighbourhood. They called on local people to help. Minutes later, the

:04:56. > :05:01.police got their man. They have got him? They have got him.

:05:02. > :05:03.And, should parents be able to take their children out

:05:04. > :05:07.One father who did just that tells us why he feels

:05:08. > :05:10.he did nothing wrong, as we await a Supreme Court

:05:11. > :05:19.ruling on his actions in the next half an hour.

:05:20. > :05:24.Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:05:25. > :05:26.President Trump has said he sacked the acting US

:05:27. > :05:29.Attorney General because she had betrayed her department

:05:30. > :05:32.by refusing to enforce his new immigration rules.

:05:33. > :05:35.Sally Yates, who was appointed by President Obama, had ordered

:05:36. > :05:39.lawyers not to enforce the ban on people entering America

:05:40. > :05:45.She said she was not convinced it was lawful.

:05:46. > :05:48.A former head of the Foreign Office has accused Theresa May of putting

:05:49. > :05:50.the Queen in "a very difficult position" by inviting

:05:51. > :05:53.President Trump to make a state visit to the UK.

:05:54. > :05:56.Lord Ricketts said it should be downgraded to an official visit

:05:57. > :06:01.Thousands of people joined anti-Trump protests in London

:06:02. > :06:06.A petition calling for his trip to be cancelled has gathered more

:06:07. > :06:13.A French-Canadian student has appeared in court in Quebec,

:06:14. > :06:16.charged with the murder of six Muslim worshippers who were shot

:06:17. > :06:20.Alexandre Bissonnette, who's 27, did not speak

:06:21. > :06:26.He faces six counts of murder and five of attempted murder.

:06:27. > :06:28.Vigils have been held across Canada in memory

:06:29. > :06:38.Adoption organisations have told this programme that a cap on funding

:06:39. > :06:41.for specialist therapy could lead to a rise in the number

:06:42. > :06:44.The Adoption Support Fund, which provides financial help

:06:45. > :06:50.for therapy, was capped last October to ?5,000 per child.

:06:51. > :06:52.Agencies are concerned that without sufficient funds to help

:06:53. > :06:54.children from disadvantaged backgrounds, families

:06:55. > :07:00.And we'll be hearing from some of those affected by the change

:07:01. > :07:04.to the Adoption Support Fund in just a few minutes' time.

:07:05. > :07:07.A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children

:07:08. > :07:09.on term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court Five

:07:10. > :07:12.judges will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council,

:07:13. > :07:14.which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter to Florida

:07:15. > :07:24.Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court, and won.

:07:25. > :07:26.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:07:27. > :07:35.We will talk more about adoption in the next few minutes, do get in

:07:36. > :07:36.touch. If you text, you will be charged

:07:37. > :07:46.at the standard network rate. I want positive experiences as well

:07:47. > :07:49.as problems and how you have worked through them or perhaps not.

:07:50. > :07:53.John Watson is back now with more from the BBC Sport Centre.

:07:54. > :08:01.Two non-league sides into the fifth round of the FA Cup for the first

:08:02. > :08:05.time. Sutton United and Lincoln City have both been rewarded with some

:08:06. > :08:09.impressive ties in the fifth round. Especially Sutton United, at home

:08:10. > :08:15.against Arsenal, they have won the competition so many times,

:08:16. > :08:21.outstanding award for them. You look at players like Rory Deacon, an

:08:22. > :08:25.ex-Arsenal Ruth Beitia, he still has ambition, and what a dream it is for

:08:26. > :08:31.him to play against his boyhood team. And Lincoln City, no

:08:32. > :08:37.surprises, they did a good job with Brighton at home, and they are going

:08:38. > :08:41.to Burnley. A tough place to play. They have a great record at home

:08:42. > :08:45.this season, Burnley, but they were fancy their chances. What will it be

:08:46. > :08:55.like for the players? Arsenal making the trip to Sutton United, the

:08:56. > :08:58.stadium is 55,000 less than theirs. It is so intimate, we were there a

:08:59. > :09:04.few months ago, it is a great place, a family run club. It has a special

:09:05. > :09:08.feel about it, the team spirit and confidence will be high. It will be

:09:09. > :09:16.difficult for Arsenal to adjust to the pitch and adapt. But I am not

:09:17. > :09:23.sure they will have to much. But what a dream. It is what the FA Cup

:09:24. > :09:26.was crying out for. Transfer deadline day as well, so we could

:09:27. > :09:31.see players on the move, Premier League spending could top record

:09:32. > :09:36.levels in January once again. A lot of movement later? I would think so,

:09:37. > :09:41.a lot of clubs in trouble or wanting to get to the next level, so there

:09:42. > :09:46.will be a lot of activity. It is just waiting for the domino effect

:09:47. > :09:52.to happen. I am looking at Mousa Dembele from Celtic, to potentially

:09:53. > :09:57.tie in for Chelsea. May she batch away could then go to West Ham, who

:09:58. > :10:01.need a striker. That has been the biggest deal so far, Dimitri Payet

:10:02. > :10:06.leaving West Ham for Marseille. They were after him in the summer, he has

:10:07. > :10:10.not played a lot of football, and if that happens, Scott Hogan is not

:10:11. > :10:13.going to West Ham, he might go elsewhere, and there could be a

:10:14. > :10:19.domino effect. I expect a lot of activity. The window closes at 11pm.

:10:20. > :10:23.What is it like if you have been rumoured with a potential move and

:10:24. > :10:29.there is still no guarantee that the move will happen? How unsettling is

:10:30. > :10:34.it? I moved in January once, from QPR to West Ham, it was quite

:10:35. > :10:37.civilised and am quite early, but I can imagine what the players will be

:10:38. > :10:42.going through, with social media and the agents. They must be looking at

:10:43. > :10:47.their phone every five minutes, thinking, have I got the call? You

:10:48. > :10:52.look at Leonardo Ulloa at Leicester City, a breakdown in comedic Asian

:10:53. > :10:58.with the manager. He has not been playing -- a breakdown in

:10:59. > :11:02.communication. It is sad to say that he will not play there again, he

:11:03. > :11:08.will look at that as a mistake. I hope he gets a move, because he

:11:09. > :11:12.looks like a good pro, he wants to play football, and he is not playing

:11:13. > :11:20.at the moment. Is Lance Yamani is their focal point. Plenty of moves

:11:21. > :11:22.still to play. The window closes at 11pm, you can follow it all on

:11:23. > :11:24.social media. This morning, what makes a couple

:11:25. > :11:28.give back an adopted child? There are many complex reasons,

:11:29. > :11:32.not least because a child taken from its birth family will more

:11:33. > :11:35.often than not have experienced But today there are fears that

:11:36. > :11:40.limiting the amount of money available to help families

:11:41. > :11:43.struggling with adopted children could lead to a rise in the number

:11:44. > :11:47.of placements breaking down. The Government have capped

:11:48. > :11:50.the amount of money available via the Adoption Support Fund

:11:51. > :11:55.to ?5,000 per child. That money pays for therapy,

:11:56. > :12:04.intensive therapy needed by children from violent,

:12:05. > :12:07.abusive and disruptive backgrounds. But the therapy can cost

:12:08. > :12:10.a lot more than that. Many families are worried their help

:12:11. > :12:15.and support could be about to stop. We played you Lesley Ashmall's full

:12:16. > :12:18.film earlier in the programme. Adoption breakdown - or disruption,

:12:19. > :12:25.as it's sometimes called - happens when a child either goes

:12:26. > :12:28.back into care or leaves One adoption charity thinks

:12:29. > :12:34.as many as a quarter of all families are in crisis,

:12:35. > :12:38.needing help to keep Rob, which isn't his real

:12:39. > :12:47.name, and his wife have children of their own,

:12:48. > :12:50.but they adopted three siblings. The reports warned the eldest had

:12:51. > :12:54.problems but nothing prepared She got kicked, thumped,

:12:55. > :13:10.things like that, quite a lot. And quite a lot of emotional

:13:11. > :13:12.abuse to her as well. Yeah, and this is from a four,

:13:13. > :13:16.five-year-old kid. And we were just

:13:17. > :13:20.shell-shocked, really. What was the trauma

:13:21. > :13:24.like on you and your wife? Well, my wife really shows the sort

:13:25. > :13:28.of symptoms you'd expect from someone who's suffered domestic

:13:29. > :13:36.abuse at times. He just became untenable,

:13:37. > :13:42.which was why we finally had to ask the local authority to step

:13:43. > :13:45.in and move him back It's not known how many

:13:46. > :13:51.adoptions break down, but the estimated figure varies

:13:52. > :13:56.from just over 3.2% to, Professor Julie Selwyn has written

:13:57. > :14:02.the definitive research It's whether they want to be

:14:03. > :14:11.adopted, if they are older, and how long they've been exposed

:14:12. > :14:19.to adversity in their life. Professor Selwyn says specialist

:14:20. > :14:23.therapy is needed for adopted youngsters who have been in care

:14:24. > :14:26.and who have often But it is expensive and changes

:14:27. > :14:34.to England's Adoption Support Fund means there's now a maximum budget

:14:35. > :14:41.of ?5,000 per for counselling. Many interventions for these

:14:42. > :14:46.children need a lot more This is therapy that needs to be

:14:47. > :14:52.ongoing and will cost The saddest bit for me

:14:53. > :14:57.is that we gave everything that we had, but the people

:14:58. > :15:03.that we thought were going to be backing us up and giving

:15:04. > :15:09.the bits that we couldn't, It isn't her real name,

:15:10. > :15:28.and we are protecting her identity to protect her two

:15:29. > :15:30.adopted teenage children. She has an adoptive daughter

:15:31. > :15:33.with foetal alcohol syndrome, and is worried about

:15:34. > :15:35.what the Adoption Support Fund cap could mean for the

:15:36. > :15:37.treatment she receives. Jay Vaughan is the clinical

:15:38. > :15:40.director of Family Futures, which provides therapy and support

:15:41. > :15:42.paid for by the Hugh Thornbery is the chief

:15:43. > :15:46.executive of Adoption UK and also the chair

:15:47. > :16:01.of the Adoption Support Fund Julie got in touch. She is a member

:16:02. > :16:07.of our audience. Julie is not her real name. She adopted her son when

:16:08. > :16:10.he was six. By the age of 14 he had become aggressive and violent and

:16:11. > :16:14.she and her husband took the decision that their son needed to go

:16:15. > :16:20.back into care. Julie, hello. Thank you very much for talking to us.

:16:21. > :16:25.Tell our audience a little bit about what you experienced with your son

:16:26. > :16:32.between the ages of six and 14? We experienced a lot of violence

:16:33. > :16:36.mainly towards myself. Extremely violent where I would have to call

:16:37. > :16:44.the police and they would have to calm him down. What kind of things

:16:45. > :16:48.was he doing? He would hit me with, he would pull the poles off the

:16:49. > :16:56.curtain rails and whack with me them. He would just hit me generally

:16:57. > :17:03.and scream at me. Throw things at me, smash things in the home. Lob

:17:04. > :17:07.things at me. He was just extremely aggressive and violent towards me.

:17:08. > :17:14.Wow. And presumably that's related to his first, the first six years of

:17:15. > :17:18.his life? Yes, it was, he came from an extremely violent background,

:17:19. > :17:26.drug and alcohol difficulties, he was born heroin addicted himself.

:17:27. > :17:29.Right. Aged 14, you took that incredibly difficult decision that

:17:30. > :17:34.he would go back into the care. Why did you make that decision? I made

:17:35. > :17:39.the decision because he was having an effect on the younger sibling.

:17:40. > :17:45.His full sibling in the home and also he kept absconding from us and

:17:46. > :17:49.he would run back to the birth parents and they would secretly keep

:17:50. > :17:53.him away and then he would turn up a few days later after a police hunt

:17:54. > :18:00.for him. Can you give us an insight into what it is like to make a

:18:01. > :18:08.decision like that? It is absolutely heartbreaking because... It is just

:18:09. > :18:16.awful. It's really hard. It has an effect

:18:17. > :18:23.on you forever, I think. We'll never stop loving him. He just needs so

:18:24. > :18:27.much help that would just couldn't offer him and we couldn't get that

:18:28. > :18:34.from any authority, they just couldn't accept that he needed

:18:35. > :18:40.extreme help. Jay, you work in terms of therapy for children similar to

:18:41. > :18:45.Julie's son. Absolutely. What would you say to Julie? She is clearly

:18:46. > :18:50.feeling guilt for what happened. It is just so sad to hear that. I think

:18:51. > :18:54.it's so familiar. There is so many families who we have seen sort of

:18:55. > :18:58.close to that point and sadly some where it has disrupted and I think

:18:59. > :19:02.sadly Julie is right, this is a grieving process which is very hard

:19:03. > :19:06.to grieve because the child is still alive so you haven't lost a child in

:19:07. > :19:10.the same way, but you're left with all those feelings of loss. So it

:19:11. > :19:14.takes a long time to recover from and I think there needs to be more

:19:15. > :19:18.help which is why we're all here today talking to really help these

:19:19. > :19:23.families not get to that point because these children do need

:19:24. > :19:28.intensive comprehensive help. Julie, stay with us as we talk to our other

:19:29. > :19:32.guests here in the studio and please, please be part of the

:19:33. > :19:39.conversation because, you know, what you have described is heartbreaking

:19:40. > :19:43.as you said. Louise, you adopted siblings. I want to ask you what,

:19:44. > :19:49.did you know about their background? What had social workers told you

:19:50. > :19:54.about their background? They told us the most, I think of the information

:19:55. > :20:02.that we needed to know as far as they knew it. They told us that

:20:03. > :20:10.their birth family were addicted to drugs and mother had been a

:20:11. > :20:16.prostitute and that there were members of a close family were in

:20:17. > :20:21.prison. Right. And in terms of you bringing up your adopted children,

:20:22. > :20:26.tell us what that was like? For the first few years I think a lot of

:20:27. > :20:40.adoptive families are so happy to have a family. We solicitor injured

:20:41. > :20:46.on and -- soldiered on and it wasn't until flagging it up to the school

:20:47. > :20:49.who helped us get support and once my son was seven we realised we

:20:50. > :20:57.really needed more support than the local authority could give us. And

:20:58. > :21:02.before you were able to access that support, how close were you to this

:21:03. > :21:07.adoption breaking down? We were just overwhelmed. I think the stress, a

:21:08. > :21:13.child's trauma is transferred to the adoptive parents and I think that

:21:14. > :21:16.the stress that we felt was so overwhelming that we couldn't see

:21:17. > :21:19.straight. So we knew we needed more support, but we didn't really know

:21:20. > :21:25.what that support should look like. Yes. We needed expert help. Jaougs

:21:26. > :21:35.there is a lot more of it around now because this was a few years ago,

:21:36. > :21:41.but there is still a complete lack of support for parents who are in

:21:42. > :21:52.our situation. What support did you get as a result of money from the

:21:53. > :21:56.Adoption Support Fund? We were back to CAMs who didn't help. Luckily the

:21:57. > :22:02.adoption support fund came in and we were able to go back to Funding

:22:03. > :22:05.Futures which was fantastic for our children because they built up

:22:06. > :22:11.trusting relationships with the therapists there. What about the

:22:12. > :22:14.cap? ?5,000 per child. To most taxpayers, they will be thinking

:22:15. > :22:20.that's plenty of money? It is not enough. If you think about how much

:22:21. > :22:25.a therapist costs and therapy for a child that's been traumatised and

:22:26. > :22:29.their families isn't just go in for on hour and lie on a bench and

:22:30. > :22:34.somebody talks to you and says breathe deeply, we do art, we do

:22:35. > :22:38.drama, we do music, we do yoga, as well as talking therapy, there is so

:22:39. > :22:46.much more, sensory integration work. Does it work? I know people will be

:22:47. > :22:50.thinking you do art, how is that going to help a kid from a heroin

:22:51. > :22:54.addicted mum. Tell us how it works? I think these children come with

:22:55. > :22:58.complex problems, it is about you need a complex solution and you need

:22:59. > :23:01.a very holistic approach and if one thinks about how trauma affects the

:23:02. > :23:11.whole body and the nervous system, the whole way a child is wired is

:23:12. > :23:15.around the trauma. Trauma. Expressing themselves verbally is

:23:16. > :23:22.not easy. It isn't a way that accesses for all of them. Being able

:23:23. > :23:26.to put it, draw something on a piece of paper, why is that, a release for

:23:27. > :23:31.them if they can't express it verbally, why does the art help?

:23:32. > :23:34.T-provides another way of expressing the unexpressable. What these

:23:35. > :23:39.children have been through sometimes is so horrific, how do you find

:23:40. > :23:43.words for it? If you can paint it and I think there was artwork used

:23:44. > :23:48.in your film earlier. If you can paint it and if you can act it out,

:23:49. > :23:51.it is another way of expressing it, rather than reenacting it on the

:23:52. > :23:57.adoptive parents or on the sibling. There is a need, we all have a need

:23:58. > :24:02.with trauma, to tell others about it. But it is about finding a safe

:24:03. > :24:06.way of communicating. Right, Hugh, let's just talk about this adoption

:24:07. > :24:09.support fund because when I look at the total funding from the

:24:10. > :24:13.Government, it's going up. ?19 million to ?23 million. Yes, the

:24:14. > :24:19.amount per family is going to be capped at ?5,000, but the Department

:24:20. > :24:23.for Education say, if there is need, for more therapeutic support for a

:24:24. > :24:28.child, where it exceeds the ?5,000, the funding will be split between

:24:29. > :24:32.the local council, if the council agrees, and the Government

:24:33. > :24:38.effectively. So, therapy could still be paid for up to ?30,000, ?40,000,

:24:39. > :24:42.?50,000. One of the great things about the adoption support fund is

:24:43. > :24:46.the fact that it began to address the postcode Lottery because there

:24:47. > :24:48.is a level of need that's been unmet for a long time that you have been

:24:49. > :24:51.hearing about. Some local authorities have been much better at

:24:52. > :24:55.recognising that and meeting it than others. So if you roll back three or

:24:56. > :24:59.four years, it was a very, very mixed picture across the country. A

:25:00. > :25:05.national fund helped to equalise that and it has benefited now nearly

:25:06. > :25:09.8800 families. I think by bringing in the limit it does obviously

:25:10. > :25:13.potentially risk those children who have got higher levels of need being

:25:14. > :25:17.able to access the service they want and we have seen because there has

:25:18. > :25:21.been a limit imposed this year, sorry this last year, we see that

:25:22. > :25:26.some local authorities are prepared to match fund, to bring the amount

:25:27. > :25:30.up, other authorities are refusing to do that, probably because of cuts

:25:31. > :25:34.to their budgets. So the risk is we're moving back into a situation

:25:35. > :25:38.where depending on where you live you either get a reasonably good

:25:39. > :25:44.service. Although the Department for Education say 80% of applications to

:25:45. > :25:48.fund, to the fund, are under ?5,000 per child. So under the limit.

:25:49. > :25:53.That's right. The average is about ?4,000. So the majority's needs will

:25:54. > :25:56.still be met with the fair access limit that's been brought in, but it

:25:57. > :26:00.does pose the issue of some of the cases that we have just been hearing

:26:01. > :26:04.about that will require a far greater degree of therapy than that,

:26:05. > :26:08.over a period of time. And the big missing thing here is the discussion

:26:09. > :26:13.about mental health services because the Government put ?1.4 billion,

:26:14. > :26:16.which puts the fund into prospective, ?1.4 billion into

:26:17. > :26:20.additional services for children's mental health, half of the clinical

:26:21. > :26:24.commissioning groups in the country, the GP-led groups that decide how

:26:25. > :26:28.funding is used has spent that money on other things. It has not gone to

:26:29. > :26:31.those services. So, we need to talk about the fund and how that's

:26:32. > :26:37.helping and what some of the limitations are and we need to

:26:38. > :26:43.understand there is a bigger issue about many of these children have

:26:44. > :26:47.needs and they are not being met. Let me bring in a viewer who doesn't

:26:48. > :26:54.want to leave their name. We have two adopted children. Our son is 13

:26:55. > :26:57.and our daughter is nine. Our children experienced neglect and

:26:58. > :27:01.abuse for a long time with their birth families before they were

:27:02. > :27:04.taken into care. And it is extremely challenging at times. I sympathise

:27:05. > :27:07.with those adoptive parents who have had to take the heartbreaking

:27:08. > :27:10.decision to place their son or daughter back into care. Very few

:27:11. > :27:15.people understand just how hard adoption is. For us, at this time,

:27:16. > :27:18.it is, it remains the best thing we've ever done, but without

:27:19. > :27:22.support, we don't know what may happen in the future and that is

:27:23. > :27:24.your worry, I think Libby as well, you have a three-year-old daughter.

:27:25. > :27:28.She is here today, you got help from the adoption support fund back in

:27:29. > :27:33.March last year. Why did you need that financial help? So my daughter

:27:34. > :27:40.has foetal alcohol syndrome. Explain what that is? Before I adopted her,

:27:41. > :27:46.I knew there was a lot of alcohol consumed in pregnancy, I knew she

:27:47. > :27:54.had emotional or behavioural issues linked to the substance misuse. Her

:27:55. > :27:58.mum was an alcoholic? A lot of the drinking happened before she knew

:27:59. > :28:03.she was pregnant. People drink and not realise there are no safe limits

:28:04. > :28:07.in pregnancy. But she did come with this future risk of foetal alcohol

:28:08. > :28:11.syndrome, but after she was placed with me, it became clear quickly

:28:12. > :28:14.this was a definite need that she had. She had quite significant

:28:15. > :28:19.sensory issues and that's kind... What does that mean? She is very

:28:20. > :28:23.young and they said before she was placed that she didn't like loud

:28:24. > :28:26.noises, but I hadn't quite comprehended or understood how

:28:27. > :28:29.limiting that was. She couldn't cope with the sound of vegetables being

:28:30. > :28:34.chopped on a board, the hoover, I remember when she moved in, she was

:28:35. > :28:38.asleep and I switched a light on downstairs and it woke her up. She

:28:39. > :28:41.isn't able to regulate noise. The social workers said, look, she may

:28:42. > :28:46.have a problem with loud noises. Yes. You hadn't understood the

:28:47. > :28:49.extent. Do you feel they didn't give you enough information or perhaps

:28:50. > :28:53.they just gave you what they had, they didn't know anymore? I think it

:28:54. > :28:57.is what they had. There was a change in social worker at the last hurdle

:28:58. > :29:01.so the social worker that was involved the whole way through, was

:29:02. > :29:03.never the one I dealt with and I feel fortunate with our local

:29:04. > :29:07.authority that they have been supportive and what I understood in

:29:08. > :29:10.the future I was probably going to deal with foetal alcohol, but there

:29:11. > :29:13.was no real expectation that it was going to be immediate and I think

:29:14. > :29:17.also the change in placement, the moving to live with me taken away

:29:18. > :29:22.from her loving foster parents was probably just a catalyst for what

:29:23. > :29:26.would have happened anyway, but it did mean it was said that the child

:29:27. > :29:31.I was placed with was not the child that anybody had expected. And both

:29:32. > :29:35.in good ways and bad ways. I'm not knocking that. You have had support

:29:36. > :29:40.from the adoption support fund and in what form does that take with

:29:41. > :29:45.your little girl? It became really clear to me she needed occupational

:29:46. > :29:50.therapy, a way to manage her senses and a way to leave the house without

:29:51. > :29:56.her having an aggressive meltdown. I did my own research and I found a

:29:57. > :30:00.really good organisation, On The Go who specialise in that and contacted

:30:01. > :30:03.my social worker, but again with the adoption support fund it clearly

:30:04. > :30:09.says they won't pay for occupational therapy. So initially I funded it

:30:10. > :30:15.myself. And then we real I seed they will pay for occupational therapy if

:30:16. > :30:19.it is sensory integration, I come across adopters and they say, we

:30:20. > :30:23.know they won't pay for that and there are limits. The other thing my

:30:24. > :30:29.daughter needs is speech and language which I can't access on the

:30:30. > :30:30.adoption support fund. Once I accessed, it was life changing and

:30:31. > :30:39.we have been fortunate. The total budget has gone up, but we

:30:40. > :30:46.have regressed to a postcode lottery, so what can you do? We can

:30:47. > :30:49.raise these issues. We monitor the use of the Adoption Support Fund, we

:30:50. > :30:54.get information on which authorities are using it, which are not, we get

:30:55. > :30:59.intelligence about whether people are waiting too long for assessment,

:31:00. > :31:04.except rep. Adoption UK and those I work with will continue to ensure

:31:05. > :31:08.the money is easily accessed for the families that meet the criteria, we

:31:09. > :31:12.will continue to persuade Government that it needs to invest, because we

:31:13. > :31:16.are only beginning to see the full extent of the level of need. Many

:31:17. > :31:25.adopters have been better -- detached from the professionals they

:31:26. > :31:29.have not received help. Up until -- up to 25% of families have

:31:30. > :31:32.experienced real difficulties and are now beginning to realise there

:31:33. > :31:37.is something that might be there to help them. That puts pressure on the

:31:38. > :31:43.amount of funding that has been put in place. As far as I understand it,

:31:44. > :31:48.official figures are not kept on how many breakdowns there are, the

:31:49. > :31:57.estimates range from about 3% to 9% to even a third. Research says a

:31:58. > :32:03.third are OK, a third struggle and a third to shrug. What is clear in

:32:04. > :32:10.other research is that the cost records are not clearly kept, we do

:32:11. > :32:14.not know how many adaptions -- adoptions are breaking down. Our

:32:15. > :32:18.experience is that it's a high number breaking down or close to

:32:19. > :32:22.disruption, and in the last week we have had two families saying if

:32:23. > :32:27.there is no funding, we don't think we can go on, we will have to say to

:32:28. > :32:30.the local authority, we can't do this. It is a serious problem, and I

:32:31. > :32:43.am worried about how the cap will happen.

:32:44. > :32:51.Really appreciate you talking to us. Talking through what a heartbreaking

:32:52. > :32:58.decision and you talk, we really appreciate it.

:32:59. > :33:01.Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:33:02. > :33:03.President Trump has fired the Acting US Attorney-General,

:33:04. > :33:05.saying she had "betrayed" her department by refusing

:33:06. > :33:07.to enforce his travel ban for seven mainly-Muslim countries.

:33:08. > :33:10.Sally Yates had told her lawyers not to defend the executive order

:33:11. > :33:13.which the President signed on Friday, as it might not be legal.

:33:14. > :33:15.Ms Yates had been appointed by President Obama.

:33:16. > :33:21.Mr Trump said his opponents were trying to obstruct him.

:33:22. > :33:23.MPs will this afternoon hold their first debate

:33:24. > :33:25.on the Government's bill to trigger the formal process

:33:26. > :33:29.The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has given his party strict orders

:33:30. > :33:32.to support the measure but some Labour MPs have said they will join

:33:33. > :33:41.A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children

:33:42. > :33:42.on term-time holidays reaches the Supreme Court today.

:33:43. > :33:45.Five judges will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council,

:33:46. > :33:47.which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter

:33:48. > :33:49.to Florida without her school's permission.

:33:50. > :33:55.Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court, and won.

:33:56. > :33:59.Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11am.

:34:00. > :34:01.Here's some sport now with John Watson.

:34:02. > :34:04.Two non-league sides into the fifth round for the first time

:34:05. > :34:08.One of those, Sutton United, have been rewarded with a dream tie

:34:09. > :34:15.This was the moment they found out who they will be facing.

:34:16. > :34:18.Arsenal and their superstars making the trip to Gander Green Lane, where

:34:19. > :34:26.5,000 the capacity, 55,000 less than the Emirates.

:34:27. > :34:28.Lincoln's reward for beating Brighton of the Championship

:34:29. > :34:30.is a tie away to Burnley of the Premier League.

:34:31. > :34:38.The side who top the National League were 3-1 winners last weekend.

:34:39. > :34:42.The January transfer window closes at 11pm tonight with Premier League

:34:43. > :34:46.spending expected to surpass the record from January 2011.

:34:47. > :34:49.The biggest deal so far is that of Dimitri Payet,

:34:50. > :34:51.who has moved from West Ham to Marseille for ?25 million.

:34:52. > :34:54.But with plenty of time left for deals to be done today,

:34:55. > :35:04.A legal battle over the rights of parents to take their children

:35:05. > :35:06.out of school for holidays during term-time reaches

:35:07. > :35:12.the highest court in the land today, the Supreme Court.

:35:13. > :35:16.This will have a massive impact on any parent.

:35:17. > :35:19.Five justices will hear an appeal by Isle of Wight Council,

:35:20. > :35:21.which fined a father, Jon Platt, for taking his daughter

:35:22. > :35:23.to Florida without her school's permission.

:35:24. > :35:26.Mr Platt challenged his fine in the High Court and won, and now

:35:27. > :35:28.it's gone to the Supreme Court for a final judgement.

:35:29. > :35:31.If you have taken your child out of school for a holiday

:35:32. > :35:33.without permission, so it's an unauthorised absence,

:35:34. > :35:39.Speaking ahead of the case, Jon Platt told us how he was feeling.

:35:40. > :35:44.I thought I'd be a lot more nervous than I am.

:35:45. > :35:48.All of this is now out of my hands, it's in the hands of my very

:35:49. > :35:50.talented legal team and in the hands of the Supreme Court justices.

:35:51. > :35:57.Well, the Supreme Court has been asked to make quite shocking ruling.

:35:58. > :36:00.So the Department for Education and the Isle of Wight Council,

:36:01. > :36:03.they're going to argue that any unauthorised absence from school

:36:04. > :36:08.So their interpretation of children attending school regularly

:36:09. > :36:12.is that they should attend on every day that the school requires it.

:36:13. > :36:15.And the Supreme Court is entitled to come to that opinion,

:36:16. > :36:18.they are entitled to agree with them, but if they do,

:36:19. > :36:23.12.8 million unauthorised absences happened in the last academic year.

:36:24. > :36:29.Just the last autumn term of 2015, there was 4.1 million

:36:30. > :36:33.If we lose today, those unauthorised absences all become

:36:34. > :36:36.criminal offences and, going forward, any single day that

:36:37. > :36:39.a child misses at school without the permission of the school

:36:40. > :36:44.But maybe that's what's needed to make sure their child

:36:45. > :36:48.It's not needed in this country, I don't think.

:36:49. > :36:57.But I don't think there are any circumstances under which that level

:36:58. > :36:58.of draconian interpretation of the word regularly

:36:59. > :37:02.I don't see any circumstances under which a child with maybe 98,

:37:03. > :37:05.99% attendance, the parents should be dragged to court.

:37:06. > :37:08.It would be outrageous, absolutely outrageous.

:37:09. > :37:10.Well, the Department for Education says regular attendance means not

:37:11. > :37:16.Let's just be clear, Victoria, they have never

:37:17. > :37:20.It is only in relation to this case and, boy,

:37:21. > :37:24.have we looked hard to find statutory guidance or caselaw

:37:25. > :37:27.where anybody has ever said that regular attendance in school

:37:28. > :37:33.But you're right, they do say that now.

:37:34. > :37:36.35 councils in England no longer fine parents for term-time

:37:37. > :37:40.holidays as a direct result of Jon Platt's case.

:37:41. > :37:43.Jerry Glazier is an executive member of the National Union of Teachers.

:37:44. > :37:45.He doesn't think fining parents is the right way forward.

:37:46. > :37:49.Samantha Woodland is a mother from Cleethorpes.

:37:50. > :37:52.John Mitchell is a father from Portsmouth who has been fined

:37:53. > :37:55.And Denise Pritchett was fined yesterday for taking her

:37:56. > :38:14.That is the intention. You sure? I would rather pay that now than leave

:38:15. > :38:20.it and try and appeal it and potentially cost me thousands of

:38:21. > :38:25.pounds. Why did you take your daughter out in October? It was my

:38:26. > :38:31.elder daughter's GCSEs last year, and it was her reward for doing

:38:32. > :38:38.well. It is my jumper daughter that we have received the fine for. Did

:38:39. > :38:47.you have to go away then? The trip was to Florida. It was Halloween

:38:48. > :38:53.that my daughter wanted to go. Halloween only occurs in October.

:38:54. > :38:59.The previous year, the school had actually given us two weeks' holiday

:39:00. > :39:05.in October. I had anticipated they would do the same again, but they

:39:06. > :39:14.did not. You have been fined how many times? Once. You took her to

:39:15. > :39:25.Disneyland Paris for her birthday. You refusing to pay. We did ask the

:39:26. > :39:33.school, we said in a letter, it went to the Board of Governors, they

:39:34. > :39:36.turned it down. They said, can't you take her when it is the school

:39:37. > :39:44.holidays? Have you seen the prices of holidays in the summer? We paid

:39:45. > :39:52.an arm and a leg to take a two distiller in Paris in November. If I

:39:53. > :39:57.wanted to look about holiday in the school holidays, I would have paid

:39:58. > :40:10.double. Definitely. Does your daughter need that holiday? No! Your

:40:11. > :40:19.response tells me the answer! I am a dad that always says yes to my

:40:20. > :40:25.daughter. You setting up problems! We ask her, what do she want to do

:40:26. > :40:29.for her birthday? Guess what she says, Disneyland Paris, of course!

:40:30. > :40:37.She wanted to take her friend as well. Did you say guests? Yes, she

:40:38. > :40:46.is at a different school. She never got fined. That is interesting. That

:40:47. > :40:55.is probably because of this case. Samantha, hello. Your son has had an

:40:56. > :40:58.excellent attendance record. You talk him out of school for a

:40:59. > :41:02.wedding, you have been fined and you are refusing to pay. We took him out

:41:03. > :41:08.for two family weddings which were in the same week. One was in Fort

:41:09. > :41:14.William and the second was in the Orkneys, so it is not a trip you can

:41:15. > :41:21.do within a day. You could not have been surprised when you got the

:41:22. > :41:24.fine? We put the request in, and under the circumstances, until

:41:25. > :41:29.recently, we were a military family, my husband served for the last 15

:41:30. > :41:37.years, and due to those commitments we have missed countless family

:41:38. > :41:44.gatherings. So now we are out in civvy Street, we were hopeful that

:41:45. > :41:51.we would be permitted... It is a one off, I do not think we should be

:41:52. > :41:55.punished for it. If this Supreme Court case means parents will be

:41:56. > :42:02.criminalised and find for taking their children out of school, is

:42:03. > :42:04.that right? The National Union of Teachers believes passionately that

:42:05. > :42:09.everything should be done for children to attend school. It is

:42:10. > :42:14.important that parents understand sometimes the negative impact of

:42:15. > :42:21.taking their children out. But fining parents creates a negative

:42:22. > :42:27.environment, and it creates confrontation. How would you deal

:42:28. > :42:35.with parents who do it? You began to deal with him very well! It is not

:42:36. > :42:40.my job! It is engaging with parents constructively and saying, think

:42:41. > :42:43.about this think about the impact think about whether it is absolutely

:42:44. > :42:49.necessary. There will be occasions when it is necessary. It is

:42:50. > :42:57.different from persistent truancy. If you do it on a case-by-case

:42:58. > :43:01.basis, Samantha says, military family, we have missed weddings,

:43:02. > :43:05.family gatherings, finally we can take our child, they are a bit of a

:43:06. > :43:12.trek, the Orkneys and the other place, I have forgotten... For

:43:13. > :43:18.William. Broadly, most parents might say, take your child. Some might say

:43:19. > :43:24.to you, it is Disneyland Paris, it is not a family wedding. But then

:43:25. > :43:30.John will say, hang on, some of the's it can go to a wedding, why

:43:31. > :43:34.can't I go to Paris for my daughter's birthday? There needs to

:43:35. > :43:39.be some sophistication and discretion. The problem in the past

:43:40. > :43:43.has been that the Department for Education has handed down a diktat

:43:44. > :43:48.to headteachers and said, you have got to say no on every case. You

:43:49. > :43:52.say, leave it to headteachers? Give them the discretion to understand

:43:53. > :43:58.the circumstances to make a decision. We asked for our daughter

:43:59. > :44:02.to come out two weeks ago to go to a family funeral and they denied us an

:44:03. > :44:08.hour and a quarter. So we took her away for the whole day. We will

:44:09. > :44:10.report back on the case when the Supreme Court hands down the

:44:11. > :44:13.decision. Two suspected animal smugglers have

:44:14. > :44:15.been arrested in Ivory Coast following a year-long BBC

:44:16. > :44:17.investigation into the trafficking There's growing demand for baby

:44:18. > :44:22.chimps as exotic pets The only way to catch them is to

:44:23. > :44:28.kill the adults in their families. Our science editor David Shukman

:44:29. > :44:31.found dealers willing to sell the apes, which are an endangered

:44:32. > :44:38.species, for $12,500 each. After arresting the men,

:44:39. > :44:40.police uncovered computer and mobile phone evidence of an international

:44:41. > :44:43.smuggling network linking corrupt We played you David's full film

:44:44. > :44:49.earlier in the programme. Captured from a jungle

:44:50. > :45:07.in West Africa. Orphaned after poachers

:45:08. > :45:09.killed its family, and now Chimps are in danger,

:45:10. > :45:19.so exporting them is illegal. But they are so adorable,

:45:20. > :45:22.they are wanted as pets During a year-long investigation,

:45:23. > :45:30.we were sent these videos by dealers offering to sell the tiny animals

:45:31. > :45:38.for about ?10,000 each. We got in touch with a dealer

:45:39. > :45:53.called Ibrahima Traore. He sent us a video of

:45:54. > :45:56.a crate specially made He then met a colleague of ours

:45:57. > :46:00.who was pretending to be a buyer, Ibrahima spelled out

:46:01. > :46:05.his prices in dollars. Using a hidden camera,

:46:06. > :46:24.our undercover colleague filmed his I'm OK, yes, I'm just a bit

:46:25. > :46:35.afraid of the animal. His cover story was that he needed

:46:36. > :46:45.proof for a client in Indonesia. And everyone there denied

:46:46. > :47:10.knowing anything about it. Detectives charged

:47:11. > :47:36.through the neighbourhood. He's facing charges related

:47:37. > :47:40.to wildlife trafficking, along with his uncle,

:47:41. > :47:43.Mohammed. And a search led them to a small

:47:44. > :47:46.room, where they found a crate So the police have just made

:47:47. > :47:55.all of these arrests. It's pretty edgy here,

:47:56. > :47:57.the atmosphere, and A baby chimpanzee

:47:58. > :48:02.taken from the jungle. The real tragedy of this trade

:48:03. > :48:05.is that to get one infant chimpanzee out of the jungle,

:48:06. > :48:08.all of the adults in its family That's as many as ten adults

:48:09. > :48:13.slaughtered just to get one chimp Hungry but safe at

:48:14. > :48:19.the zoo in Abidjan. The keepers gave him

:48:20. > :48:23.a name, Nembly Junior. But the trauma he's been through may

:48:24. > :48:30.have caused lasting damage. Live in Nairobi is John Scanlon

:48:31. > :48:33.from Cites, which aims to ensure that international trade of wild

:48:34. > :48:35.animals does not Dr Rebecca Atencia is from

:48:36. > :48:42.the Jane Goodall Institute, and is director of their chimpanzee

:48:43. > :48:44.sanctuary in the Democratic Dr Cleve Hicks is a specialist

:48:45. > :48:49.in chimp behaviour, having worked with them for more than 15 years

:48:50. > :48:55.in the wild. And Kaddu Sebunya is president

:48:56. > :48:57.of the African Wildlife Foundation, which works directly with African

:48:58. > :49:12.governments for the Welcome all of you. John Scanlon,

:49:13. > :49:18.how big is this problem of trafficking in chimpanzees? Well,

:49:19. > :49:21.illegal wildlife trade is having a devastating impact on a large number

:49:22. > :49:26.of wild animals and plants for that matter and here I think this

:49:27. > :49:30.investigative report just displayed for us graphically how traumatic

:49:31. > :49:36.this illegal wildlife trade is when you're looking at live animals, a

:49:37. > :49:41.beautiful chimpanzee put into illegal trade. It's run by trance

:49:42. > :49:43.national organised criminal gangs. People who are very savvy. They do

:49:44. > :49:48.everything they can to avoid the law. They corrupt people along the

:49:49. > :49:54.way. So I think you've really exposed, you know, how disturbing

:49:55. > :49:58.this illegal trade is and the sort of measures that these trans

:49:59. > :50:03.national organised gangs go to shift the wildlife across international

:50:04. > :50:07.borders. Rebecca, what impact can it have on a chimp's well-being, being

:50:08. > :50:13.ripped from their family at a young age? The impact it can have just

:50:14. > :50:18.incredible because it affects when it is one or two years old, at that

:50:19. > :50:21.time the mother is the centre of their life. The bond they have

:50:22. > :50:25.established with their mother at that time is so important and the

:50:26. > :50:30.attachment and that means that they love the mother and they see how

:50:31. > :50:34.they kill her in front of them and it affects their personality for the

:50:35. > :50:37.rest of their life and it is so difficult to recover interest that

:50:38. > :50:43.trauma that they suffered in that moment. Kadu, what are you doing to

:50:44. > :50:53.try to reduce the trafficking of these chimps? We have a conversation

:50:54. > :50:58.with the BBC for exposing this illegal crime. We have tried to

:50:59. > :51:03.focus on the three areas. We are trying to stop the killing and stop

:51:04. > :51:12.the trafficking and reduce the demand in other countries and we

:51:13. > :51:15.cannot do do any better than looking at the habitats, conservation,

:51:16. > :51:23.looking at communities around the habitats, but also focus on African

:51:24. > :51:31.Government and how they can strengthen their laws. Africa is

:51:32. > :51:37.losing the species that we need for our devolvement. That's a big issue

:51:38. > :51:40.on the Continent. Clive, how easy is it to reintegrate a chimp into the

:51:41. > :51:44.wild? It is actually really, really difficult and actually impossible

:51:45. > :51:47.because chimpanzees, if you are trying to reintegrate them into a

:51:48. > :51:53.social group that's already there, they are fend owe phobic, any orphan

:51:54. > :51:56.that would you would try to put into the group would be killed, you

:51:57. > :52:01.shouldn't bring it anyway because they can bring diseases from the

:52:02. > :52:06.humans. They can never really go back out in the forests and live a

:52:07. > :52:11.full chapl pan ze life again. So they have to be integrated into

:52:12. > :52:17.sanctuary environment then? Exactly. Exactly. There is I've worked with

:52:18. > :52:20.sanctuaries in eastern Congo that provide a really good home for these

:52:21. > :52:26.chimps that really can't go anywhere else. Rebecca, your job is working

:52:27. > :52:34.with can chimps in the dronk. Tell us about their life in your

:52:35. > :52:41.sanctuary? -- Democratic Republic of Congo. We need to establish bonding

:52:42. > :52:51.again and especially in this case at the beginning and when he arrived,

:52:52. > :53:04.after within year, it takes a long time the recovery and until they are

:53:05. > :53:07.ten years old, they cannot have relationships with other

:53:08. > :53:11.chimpanzees. It is a long time. They can live for 70 years and all this

:53:12. > :53:15.time in the sanctuary, it is a long time for their recovering. John, is

:53:16. > :53:21.it possible to have an international trade in wild animals without

:53:22. > :53:27.threatening their survival? Well, this convention that was negotiated

:53:28. > :53:30.back in the 1970s distinguished between different animals and

:53:31. > :53:34.plants. It said where an animal or plant is already threatened with

:53:35. > :53:39.extinction, it should not enter into international commercial trade. It

:53:40. > :53:44.is prohibited as is the case with all great apes. For some other

:53:45. > :53:47.species, they say they are not yet threatened with extinction, but they

:53:48. > :53:53.could become threatened with extinction if we don't strictly

:53:54. > :53:57.regulate the trade and there is trade in many species, and

:53:58. > :54:01.crocodiles and certain sharks, that's strictly regulated to make

:54:02. > :54:06.sure they don't become threatened with extinction, but with respect to

:54:07. > :54:10.great apes, there is to be no international commercial trade and

:54:11. > :54:15.what you uncovered here was an example, a terrible example of where

:54:16. > :54:19.people are seeking to succumb haven't the international rules

:54:20. > :54:22.prohibiting that trade. I'm grateful for your time. Thank you very much

:54:23. > :54:28.for coming on the programme. Thank you.

:54:29. > :54:30.On Monday we're holding a live audience programme

:54:31. > :54:33.We'll be looking at the problems it's facing and asking

:54:34. > :54:39.If you work in the NHS in whatever role or you're a patient

:54:40. > :54:41.with recent experience, we'd love you to be

:54:42. > :54:50.E-mail victoria@bbc.co.uk to let us know if you're interested and one

:54:51. > :54:55.We'll be joined by our health editor Hugh Pym, leading politicians

:54:56. > :55:08.We need you, staff and patients of the NHS.

:55:09. > :55:11.A couple of primary schools in England have begun allowing

:55:12. > :55:14.pupils to wear their slippers in class after research found it

:55:15. > :55:20.The study from Bournemouth University found children who attend

:55:21. > :55:22.lessons without shoes work harder and behave better.

:55:23. > :55:25.West Thornton Primary Academy in London is one of those schools

:55:26. > :55:33.Let's speak to Di Pumphrey, headteacher at West Thornton Primary

:55:34. > :55:41.She's in charge of the shoeless zones in the school.

:55:42. > :55:50.Hello both of you. Hello. Hello. Why does having their shoes off mean

:55:51. > :55:56.children learn better? Well, I think the answer to that is that nobody

:55:57. > :55:59.actually knows. It is not one magic silver bullet. What we have been

:56:00. > :56:02.doing over the last four years is really rethinking our approach to

:56:03. > :56:06.learning and teaching and redesigning our spaces so that we

:56:07. > :56:09.actually get the best out of children and their attitudes to

:56:10. > :56:13.learning. Shoeless learning is just one part of that approach that we've

:56:14. > :56:17.taken and we have been doing it for four years. It came about through

:56:18. > :56:21.children deciding for themselves that they have been given a lovely

:56:22. > :56:26.new classroom, open-plan, flexible learning environment to learn in and

:56:27. > :56:30.they wanted to respect it and feel comfortable in it and learn better

:56:31. > :56:35.on the different furniture that we had in there and so they took the

:56:36. > :56:41.decision after looking at the research to go shoeless. Let me

:56:42. > :56:47.ask... We didn't enforce it with them. What difference have you seen,

:56:48. > :56:51.in terms of the pupils performance? Well, we have seen a definite change

:56:52. > :56:55.in behaviour, behaviour is much calmer in the learning zones. The

:56:56. > :56:58.noise levels have gone down. Children feel more comfortable and

:56:59. > :57:02.most definitely on the first year that we did the open learning zone

:57:03. > :57:10.which including the shoeless learning, results went out on

:57:11. > :57:15.year-on-year in terms of comparing the cohorts, and we are resilience

:57:16. > :57:18.and working collaboratively and being independent really and that's

:57:19. > :57:21.where they took charge of the learning in terms of choosing to go

:57:22. > :57:26.shoeless. It was their idea. They had to present the data back to us

:57:27. > :57:32.to prove you know that is not a gimmick there, has an impact on

:57:33. > :57:36.learning. I think not all parents Di, not all parents are into it.

:57:37. > :57:42.They think it might be scruffy or slobby? I've not had that brought

:57:43. > :57:45.back to me from any of our parents. Our children decided that this was

:57:46. > :57:51.the way that they were going to go. They presented it to their parents.

:57:52. > :57:54.It was not enforced, but all of our children just choose to do that

:57:55. > :57:58.because they feel more comfortable and more relaxed. You're not going

:57:59. > :58:02.to learn well when you are sitting uncomfortably in a chair with shoes

:58:03. > :58:06.on. You just need to relax and think about how you learn at home. Think

:58:07. > :58:10.about how you read at home. Think about you sort of sit there with an

:58:11. > :58:15.iPad on your lap perhaps, something else by your side and you

:58:16. > :58:19.co-ordinate your learning to make it feel comfortable for you. We have

:58:20. > :58:23.not had any negative response from our parents and we wouldn't expect

:58:24. > :58:28.any because they can see it working with our children. Thank you, Di,

:58:29. > :58:33.Thank you Aylament thank you for your comments on adoption this

:58:34. > :58:34.morning. Yes, really grateful. Have a good day.