08/02/2017

:00:09. > :00:16.Good morning. It is Wednesday. It is 9am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire. Today

:00:17. > :00:20.attempts to bring together health and social care seen as crucial to

:00:21. > :00:23.easing pressure on the NHS in England, are failing to either save

:00:24. > :00:26.money or free up hospital beds. That's according to the Government's

:00:27. > :00:30.own spending watchdog. You've got to have a long-term

:00:31. > :00:35.solution for this. It's not just about this year or next year, we

:00:36. > :00:38.will have many more older people and many people who will need care in

:00:39. > :00:44.hospital and who need good care when they get out of hospital. It is not

:00:45. > :00:49.suitable for them to stay in hospital for a long time. We will

:00:50. > :00:53.explain why a toy gun like this, led to a headteacher to call the police

:00:54. > :00:58.to her school. The mum of the boy who owns this toy tells us

:00:59. > :01:10.anonymously, it only happened because her son isn't white.

:01:11. > :01:12.Police raid the homes of people who illegally use streaming boxes. We

:01:13. > :01:23.will bring you the story today. We also want to hear from you this

:01:24. > :01:29.morning if you receive We'll have the details

:01:30. > :01:39.on that later. We're also talking about Lady Gaga

:01:40. > :01:43.who has hit back at the body shamers who criticised how she looked

:01:44. > :01:46.at the Super Bowl. She has been trolled on social media

:01:47. > :01:52.by people claiming she looked fat. Now she's posted this in response,

:01:53. > :01:55."I'm proud of my body and you should No matter who you

:01:56. > :02:00.are or what you do. I could give you a million reasons

:02:01. > :02:03.why you don't need to cater Do get in touch on all the stories,

:02:04. > :02:15.we're talking about this morning. Use the hashtag Victoria

:02:16. > :02:17.LIVE and if you text, you will be charged

:02:18. > :02:19.at the standard network rate. Plans to treat more patients

:02:20. > :02:22.in the community have so far failed to save money

:02:23. > :02:25.or reduce hospital admissions in England, according to

:02:26. > :02:29.the Government's spending watchdog. The National Audit Office says

:02:30. > :02:30.ministers were over-optimistic in thinking a scheme called

:02:31. > :02:33.the Better Care Fund When residents of this care home

:02:34. > :02:45.in Sutton have to go to hospital, an innovative scheme helps

:02:46. > :02:47.cut their stay to a minimum. Their medical and personal details

:02:48. > :02:51.go with them in distinctive red bags so doctors and nurses can make

:02:52. > :02:54.faster and more effective It's been a great asset for us,

:02:55. > :03:00.and we are able to pass the information on with a guarantee

:03:01. > :03:02.that it's going from ambulance to A to the ward,

:03:03. > :03:05.and following them through. We've been able to reduce length

:03:06. > :03:08.of stay for those care home residents who go into hospital

:03:09. > :03:11.by four days, which is massive when you think how the system

:03:12. > :03:18.is so stretched at the moment. But joined up care isn't

:03:19. > :03:21.working everywhere. The National Audit Office says

:03:22. > :03:25.the spending of more than ?5 billion of NHS and council money

:03:26. > :03:27.on integrating health and social Starting in 2014-15,

:03:28. > :03:35.the scheme aimed to reduce emergency admissions to hospital by more

:03:36. > :03:39.than 100,000, but in 2015-16, admissions actually

:03:40. > :03:45.went up by 87,000. Over the same period,

:03:46. > :03:48.the project was supposed to reduce the number of days lost

:03:49. > :03:51.because people were stuck in hospital by almost 300,000,

:03:52. > :03:54.but one year later, it had The Public Accounts Committee

:03:55. > :04:01.is calling for long-term solutions They need to look at why

:04:02. > :04:04.this isn't working. What is it that's stopping the beds

:04:05. > :04:08.being available, even when there is, at least in the short term,

:04:09. > :04:10.some money being The Government says it's too

:04:11. > :04:16.soon to judge the impact Our correspondent Fiona

:04:17. > :04:22.Lamden can tell us more. Fiona, what was the better

:04:23. > :04:28.care fund set up for? We have being told the main problem

:04:29. > :04:32.with our Health Service is the lack of joined up thinking between health

:04:33. > :04:35.and social care and that's why historically you have seen elderly

:04:36. > :04:39.people stuck in hospital, blocking the beds with nowhere to go. Social

:04:40. > :04:43.care is looking after people in the community? That's why when patients

:04:44. > :04:47.come in they are on trolleys because the elderly people have been

:04:48. > :04:50.blocking the beds. They came up with the Better Care Fund at a cost of

:04:51. > :04:54.over ?5 billion, but the National Audit Office has looked into it and

:04:55. > :04:58.have come up with three main criticisms. The first is emergency

:04:59. > :05:03.admissions have gone up, not down. The second thing is that the number

:05:04. > :05:09.of people stuck in hospital without a suitable care package, well that's

:05:10. > :05:13.dropped and that's meant to go up. It hasn't saved very much in the

:05:14. > :05:19.last year, only ?0.5 billion. Thank you very much Fiona. Thank you.

:05:20. > :05:28.MPs are to vote on the Brexit bill today, deciding whether to give

:05:29. > :05:30.Theresa May the power to leave the EU.

:05:31. > :05:32.Last night the government saw off a possible rebellion after promising

:05:33. > :05:35.that any final deal will be put to the Commons.

:05:36. > :05:37.A battle for control over the process of Brexit.

:05:38. > :05:42.Last night, MPs ended more than seven

:05:43. > :05:45.hours of debate which contained what some saw

:05:46. > :05:50.I can confirm that the Government will bring forward a

:05:51. > :05:53.motion on the final agreement, to be approved by both Houses of

:05:54. > :05:58.In other words, MPs will get to vote on any future Brexit deal before it

:05:59. > :06:01.is signed off by the Government and the EU.

:06:02. > :06:03.But Theresa May's negotiations with other EU leaders

:06:04. > :06:06.are likely to be complex, and some MPs are worried about her threat to

:06:07. > :06:13.walk away from the talks rather than take a bad deal.

:06:14. > :06:15.What the House wants is the opportunity to send the

:06:16. > :06:18.Government back to our EU partners to negotiate a deal F1 hasn't been

:06:19. > :06:26.Last night, the Government saw off a number of attempts to add

:06:27. > :06:30.conditions to the Bill which gives it the power to start Brexit, but

:06:31. > :06:32.some backbenchers remain unhappy at what ministers offered, and the

:06:33. > :06:35.divisions between those who argued for Brexit and those who campaigned

:06:36. > :06:56.The bill reaches its final stages in the

:06:57. > :06:58.Commons today, threatening to expose further rifts within Labour, and

:06:59. > :07:00.more tough questions from Tory backbenchers.

:07:01. > :07:01.Despite the arguments, the Government seems confident it

:07:02. > :07:03.can trigger the exit process next month.

:07:04. > :07:06.Lawyers for President Trump have been trying to convince an appeals

:07:07. > :07:08.court to bring back his travel ban on people from some

:07:09. > :07:12.The court heard that Donald Trump's ban on arrivals from Somalia

:07:13. > :07:14.could help stop members of the terror group al-Shabab

:07:15. > :07:18.But lawyers for two US states said it discriminated against Muslims.

:07:19. > :07:21.Judges will make their decision later this week.

:07:22. > :07:23.The Government's plan to double free childcare for pre-schoolers has

:07:24. > :07:27.been thrown into doubt, with most councils saying

:07:28. > :07:29.they are unsure if they can manage the scheme.

:07:30. > :07:32.From September, three and and four-year-olds in England

:07:33. > :07:34.will be entitled to 30 free hours of care a week.

:07:35. > :07:37.But a poll of local authorities has found that more than half say

:07:38. > :07:41.they don't know if they have enough places to offer.

:07:42. > :07:44.Victim support groups are calling for more protection for rape

:07:45. > :07:47.Some rape victims say they were interrogated

:07:48. > :07:50.about their own sexual history while giving evidence

:07:51. > :07:56.Today MPs will debate a Bill that would stop

:07:57. > :07:59.Today MPs will debate a Bill that would stop defence lawyers from this

:08:00. > :08:03.Tens of thousands of starlings are performing a nightly ritual

:08:04. > :08:06.Their synchronised flying creates an amazing aerial ballet.

:08:07. > :08:09.The Friends of the Lake District group has organised a number

:08:10. > :08:11.of viewing events before the season ends later this month,

:08:12. > :08:25.It's an aerial ballet with a cast of thousands.

:08:26. > :08:29.A mass of starlings flying in mesmerising harmony.

:08:30. > :08:32.The dictionary tells us this is called a murmuration.

:08:33. > :08:36.It also tells us the word has been in use for hundreds of years,

:08:37. > :08:41.Nobody really knows why it is called this.

:08:42. > :08:44.It's an interesting word because they do not really murmur.

:08:45. > :08:50.But why do they form these patterns and move together in harmony?

:08:51. > :08:53.There is some suggestion that they come together at dusk

:08:54. > :08:58.in a big group because it protects them from predators.

:08:59. > :09:00.Why they do this amazing aerial ballet before they settle down

:09:01. > :09:12.Why wouldn't anyone want to spend a night here?

:09:13. > :09:15.And so an audience gathered in Cumbria for one of the greatest

:09:16. > :09:19.This is one of several murmuration viewings posted by Friends

:09:20. > :09:25.And so as dusk gathers, so too do the stars of the show

:09:26. > :09:33.Someone estimated there were 60,000 or so starlings out there.

:09:34. > :09:39.I'm not sure how you would count them.

:09:40. > :09:41.Then, as darkness falls, so too do the starlings.

:09:42. > :09:52.It is curtain down on another perfect performance.

:09:53. > :09:54.Hundreds of students have taken part in a massive

:09:55. > :09:58.Dubbed "a battle for snow-man's land" the event was organised

:09:59. > :10:01.on the campus at the University of British Columbia after heavy snow

:10:02. > :10:14.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

:10:15. > :10:21.Zoe says, "Lady Gaga is an amazing woman. Anyone spouting such nonsense

:10:22. > :10:25.should be ashamed of themselves. Body shaming is disgusting."

:10:26. > :10:29.Do get in touch with us throughout the morning,

:10:30. > :10:31.use the hashtag Victoria live and If you text, you will be charged

:10:32. > :10:49.Is Will is here. , r Whenever we see a vote of confidence, it is not long

:10:50. > :10:53.until the manager. How have Leicester gone from being Premier

:10:54. > :10:58.League champions winning game after game with this style which everyone

:10:59. > :11:02.knew they would throw the ball forward to Jamie Vardy, they still

:11:03. > :11:05.went on to win the Premier League title. They have changed their style

:11:06. > :11:08.and they are struggling in the Premier League. They are just one

:11:09. > :11:13.point above the relegation zone and they haven't won a game in 2017 and

:11:14. > :11:16.haven't scored a goal this year either, but again, the contrast that

:11:17. > :11:19.they've cruised through their Champions League group, no one

:11:20. > :11:23.expected them to do that. Really struggling in the Premier League.

:11:24. > :11:27.Can the champions be in a position where they're going to go down to

:11:28. > :11:31.the championship. Ranieri doing his best to insist that there is nothing

:11:32. > :11:37.majorly wrong at the club. There is no crisis. Of course, when you don't

:11:38. > :11:43.win you lack a little confidence, it's normal. It's normal. But

:11:44. > :11:54.fortunately, these players are warriors because they are used to

:11:55. > :11:59.fight because they already had this situation.

:12:00. > :12:02.Leicester are in this extraordinary situation where they are trying to

:12:03. > :12:05.avoid relegation. They had the Premier League title in their own

:12:06. > :12:08.hands as Ranieri kept saying last season, but the good thing for them

:12:09. > :12:12.is they have the relegation situation in their own hands. They

:12:13. > :12:18.play all of the bottom four, but they have this situation where

:12:19. > :12:22.Ranieri is he unsackable? He won the Premier League title? Could

:12:23. > :12:27.Leicester sack him? Probably not We will see. Alastair Cook has been

:12:28. > :12:30.talking about his decision to step down as cricket captain? We have

:12:31. > :12:33.heard from Alastair Cook in a couple of interviews yesterday. A couple

:12:34. > :12:40.with the BBC and he's saying how sad he is to walk away after the record

:12:41. > :12:43.59 matches in charge. One thing he said he's keen to play on which is

:12:44. > :12:46.important because he is so important for scoring runs for England and we

:12:47. > :12:50.have seen it over the past, haven't we, when an England captain has

:12:51. > :12:55.continued to play on and it doesn't last much longer. Kevin Pietersen,

:12:56. > :13:00.Michael Atherton and Michael Vaughan, Alastair Cook at the age of

:13:01. > :13:04.32 is still to carry on. He said he's keen to for the new captain to

:13:05. > :13:07.really listen to advice. He said it is something he didn't really do in

:13:08. > :13:12.his early days just because there is so much to take on board. Joe Root

:13:13. > :13:16.is the outstanding favourite. All the oldies are talking about him

:13:17. > :13:21.being a great captain for England going forward. He is at a good age,

:13:22. > :13:26.26. Michael Vaughan was on 5 Live last night with a couple of others,

:13:27. > :13:29.Paul Collingwood and Jimmy Anderson saying he's the man to go. But Cook

:13:30. > :13:34.said he would do a good job, but there are other candidates as well.

:13:35. > :13:39.I think he'd do a very good job. He has got something about him to bat

:13:40. > :13:43.the way he does. He has got a huge amount of respect in the dressing

:13:44. > :13:46.room. But there is other people as well, Ben Stokes has got a

:13:47. > :13:53.leadership role at some stage. The way he has improved and matured as a

:13:54. > :13:59.cricketer and he is one of those people that people gravitate to and

:14:00. > :14:03.Jonny Bairstow and Jos Butler, we're lucky there is a good group of

:14:04. > :14:07.people pushing forward. Whoever gets it, it is one of the greatest jobs

:14:08. > :14:11.you'll ever do. We haven't heard anything official as to when we

:14:12. > :14:14.might hear an appointment about Joe Root, but England have a one day

:14:15. > :14:19.series against the West Indies, you would imagine they'd like to get it

:14:20. > :14:24.sorted before that. We expect an announcement next week with Joe Root

:14:25. > :14:30.expected to get the job. Wales have an important game, in the six

:14:31. > :14:37.nations, but the captain has been focussing on something else? Have a

:14:38. > :14:44.look at this. Will he be drowning his sorrows in a bit of this stuff?

:14:45. > :14:49.Ale win, 5% and he has been pouring pints in Wales ahead of the huge

:14:50. > :14:53.match against England in the the six nations. So Wales and England are

:14:54. > :14:59.looking to make it two out of two and be in a strong position to go on

:15:00. > :15:01.and win the Six Nations, the Welsh captain casually pouring a few pints

:15:02. > :15:11.before the big game! A mother says compensation awarded

:15:12. > :15:13.to her two young sons after they were racially

:15:14. > :15:16.discriminated against will never make up for the distress

:15:17. > :15:19.they were put through when police were called to the school over toy

:15:20. > :15:25.guns they were given as presents. They didn't have the gun in the

:15:26. > :15:29.school. The boys, who were five and seven

:15:30. > :15:31.at the time, were segregated from classmates and spoken

:15:32. > :15:34.to by police after concerns were raised by teachers

:15:35. > :15:36.that they could in fact Although both the Home Office

:15:37. > :15:40.and police strongly stress officers were not called to the school

:15:41. > :15:44.in a "prevent capacity", Kay, not her real name,

:15:45. > :15:47.believes it would not have happened Prevent is the government's

:15:48. > :15:55.anti-extremism programme and under the scheme schools are required

:15:56. > :15:58.to "have due regard to the need to prevent people from being

:15:59. > :16:04.drawn into terrorism". We're going to talk to the mum

:16:05. > :16:06.anonymously in order to protect the identity of her children,

:16:07. > :16:09.as well as Debaleena Dasgupta, who is a legal officer

:16:10. > :16:11.for Liberty and solicitor for "Kay" and her family,

:16:12. > :16:32.and Alex Kenny, from You bought your children are

:16:33. > :16:39.present, the eldest, seventh at the time, was telling his teacher about

:16:40. > :16:43.the gift, what happened after that? I came in to collect them from

:16:44. > :16:50.school the day after he told the teacher about the gifts. He made it

:16:51. > :16:53.clear it was a toy. There was not any suggestion and they did not

:16:54. > :17:00.telephone me to confirm or say otherwise. Had he told them about

:17:01. > :17:06.the noise they made? I presume they would have asked him. If they had

:17:07. > :17:10.asked him, he would have said that the toy gun was green and orange and

:17:11. > :17:14.it did not have any bullets and it made the noise and it was pretty and

:17:15. > :17:20.the boys liked them. You went to pick them up 24 hours later, said

:17:21. > :17:24.the next day what happened? I came to pick them up and I went into the

:17:25. > :17:29.reception area and the headteacher took me into the office and said

:17:30. > :17:33.there had been an incident and the police had been called. I was

:17:34. > :17:36.terrified, I thought something had happened to the boys. But the

:17:37. > :17:40.headteacher assure me they were fine and all sorts of things were going

:17:41. > :17:47.through my mind as to what had happened. Like what? I thought they

:17:48. > :17:51.had hurt someone else, or they had said something which meant the

:17:52. > :17:54.school had concerned about their welfare. Whenever I asked the

:17:55. > :17:59.teacher questions she was clear she could not tell me anything and I

:18:00. > :18:04.could not see the boys, who were being, I want to say held, but they

:18:05. > :18:08.were with their teachers in the library away from their classes. By

:18:09. > :18:14.then it was after-school time, so they would have been hungry and

:18:15. > :18:19.tired, as children are after-school, and I was terrified for them because

:18:20. > :18:23.I knew they would be scared themselves. You had some fruit in

:18:24. > :18:29.the car you wanted to give them, but you were not allowed to give it to

:18:30. > :18:34.them. No, I was not. Somebody else could will stop that is right. The

:18:35. > :18:39.headteacher told me I could get them from the car, and I had it anyway,

:18:40. > :18:44.you have to feed children after-school because they are like

:18:45. > :18:48.feral animals. But she said she would give it to them and I was made

:18:49. > :18:56.to wait in her office waiting for the police to arrive. Officers did

:18:57. > :19:00.arrive, how many? Two uniformed officers. They came into the school

:19:01. > :19:04.and were taken through the main hall where there was an after-school

:19:05. > :19:07.performance going on with about 20-30 parents present and they went

:19:08. > :19:12.to the library where my children were being held and without me they

:19:13. > :19:17.questioned the boys for a short period of time. As I understand it

:19:18. > :19:21.they were sensitive and careful and they came straight through to me

:19:22. > :19:25.after a very short period of time and the first thing they said as

:19:26. > :19:32.they walked in wars, there is nothing to be concerned about. There

:19:33. > :19:37.has been a mistake. There was all a bit of confusion about the toy guns,

:19:38. > :19:40.but it is clear they were toys and the boys were lovely and

:19:41. > :19:46.cooperative. In fact, they asked if I could have my permission to show

:19:47. > :19:50.the boys the police car because they promised the boys a treat. They were

:19:51. > :19:54.trying to be as sensitive as they possibly could which I really

:19:55. > :20:01.appreciate it. What was your response? I was flabbergasted. Of

:20:02. > :20:09.all the things it could have been, a gift of a toy gun would never

:20:10. > :20:14.justify holding children for an hour and a half, two hours, and having

:20:15. > :20:19.them scared by uniformed officers, having our reputation as a family

:20:20. > :20:23.trashed by all of the parents knowing at the school that the

:20:24. > :20:29.police had come in to see my parents and me. Do you think your family

:20:30. > :20:33.reputation has been trashed? Absolutely. I had long-standing

:20:34. > :20:40.reputation with the school and had known the teacher for many years, I

:20:41. > :20:46.was a volunteer reader, I had a DVS check, I volunteered and had helped

:20:47. > :20:50.out with a baking sale a few weeks before, I helped out with their

:20:51. > :20:56.secret Santa workshop, I knew all the parents, it really did devastate

:20:57. > :21:03.me. There was a lot of gossip going around. I have good friends who told

:21:04. > :21:07.me the things that were said. What did they say? That the police had

:21:08. > :21:11.come in to talk to me and there were Chinese whispers and there was talk

:21:12. > :21:15.about me throwing myself on the ground and people thought something

:21:16. > :21:20.had happened to my children and me. I told very close friends what had

:21:21. > :21:26.happened and they were devastated for me. It has affected my ability

:21:27. > :21:31.to be the kind of parent that I was before. I no longer feel like I fit

:21:32. > :21:37.into the community because of what has happened. What about the impact

:21:38. > :21:41.on your boys? We are trying to help them move on. It does not assist

:21:42. > :21:46.them right now for them to know about the case and the publicity. We

:21:47. > :21:53.are trying as a family to move them on from this. But there are ill

:21:54. > :21:57.effects. From a day-to-day basis the boys have nightmares. The youngest,

:21:58. > :22:02.who is only five, gets scared that he will be taken away from his

:22:03. > :22:08.siblings. He wakes up in the night, he never did before, this incident

:22:09. > :22:15.has traumatised him. My eldest boy, he was extremely traumatised and

:22:16. > :22:20.when we got home he had what I can only describe as an emotional

:22:21. > :22:23.meltdown. After half an hour of crying and being upset he threw

:22:24. > :22:28.himself at me and said he thought the police were going to take him

:22:29. > :22:33.away. That was upsetting for him and us. He has serious issues with

:22:34. > :22:40.trusting his new school and his new teachers, which is not fair on them

:22:41. > :22:47.or us. You have put them somewhere new? Yes, I moved them straightaway.

:22:48. > :22:53.Why did you believe the headteacher, who was the school bus Matley, when

:22:54. > :22:59.it comes to safeguarding, why did they call the police? It is fear.

:23:00. > :23:04.The day the disclosure was made to the teacher was on the day of the

:23:05. > :23:11.Belgian bombings and people are scared, terrified. Teachers have, as

:23:12. > :23:15.you say, this duty to look out at children and look for signs of

:23:16. > :23:22.radicalisation and extremism. I know the teachers involved all have some

:23:23. > :23:27.very paltry prevent training and but for that training they would not

:23:28. > :23:31.have been looking for these sorts of aspects. One of the things the

:23:32. > :23:38.teacher said was she had noticed a change in behaviour in my eldest son

:23:39. > :23:45.and he had been speaking Arabic in class and talking about going to

:23:46. > :23:49.Friday prayers with his dad. Now, we are not Muslim and my child has

:23:50. > :23:52.never set foot in a mosque and he does not speak Arabic. From that

:23:53. > :23:57.point of view the school was ignorant. But even if they were,

:23:58. > :24:03.there should not have been this sort of suspicion raised at small

:24:04. > :24:07.children. It does not help them or assist them, it is not about their

:24:08. > :24:12.welfare. They are looking at small children as if they were grown-ups

:24:13. > :24:18.and criminalising them. Would this have happened if your boys had been

:24:19. > :24:23.white? No, absolutely not. The reason I can be so sure is because

:24:24. > :24:29.toy guns are prolific in our society, whether you believe in them

:24:30. > :24:34.or not. Children will fashion toy guns out of pieces of toast, my boys

:24:35. > :24:39.did. These were the first toy guns I had ever bought them because they

:24:40. > :24:45.take up sticks in the garden, all boys do it. I know that children in

:24:46. > :24:50.his class who were white had huge amounts of toy guns. I also know

:24:51. > :24:58.there are parties which involve what they call nerve gun battles. The

:24:59. > :25:01.teacher must have had to hand out invites to parties. Those children

:25:02. > :25:08.have never been referred under Prevent. This is what I do not

:25:09. > :25:12.understand. A child talks about a gift, talks about a gun as a gift

:25:13. > :25:16.and the teacher absorbs that information and they cannot be

:25:17. > :25:20.concerned because they do not mention anything until 24 hours

:25:21. > :25:27.later, at which point the headteacher called the police. Not

:25:28. > :25:35.you. Yes. Does not chat to the child, calls the police. So it is

:25:36. > :25:38.racism? I think it was racial discrimination. Racism is a

:25:39. > :25:45.difficult time because people will shy away from saying something is

:25:46. > :25:48.racist. Everybody has a certain degree of racism, teachers,

:25:49. > :25:53.policemen, everybody in the front line, but it is knowing how to

:25:54. > :25:55.acknowledge it and deal with it. Instead of acknowledging that they

:25:56. > :26:00.perhaps have these thoughts because my children are not white, the

:26:01. > :26:06.teachers put two and two together and made six. The local council have

:26:07. > :26:12.apologised to you and the boys and have given new compensation. This

:26:13. > :26:15.was due to the school not following procedures around safeguarding

:26:16. > :26:19.concerns. Schools are encouraged to deal with incidents at a local

:26:20. > :26:25.level, meaning only the most serious are escalated. I have read the local

:26:26. > :26:30.authority guidance and one of the things it says, and I am sure others

:26:31. > :26:37.say, is if the school is not sure, they should ring 101, which is what

:26:38. > :26:42.they did. It is not fair to put the blame squarely on the school. The

:26:43. > :26:47.duty encourages them to look out for signs of radicalisation which are

:26:48. > :26:52.not specific and they are noncriminal, so you are essentially

:26:53. > :26:57.making small children... The fact the teachers thought speaking Arabic

:26:58. > :27:02.and attending a mosque was a reason to be concerned about radicalisation

:27:03. > :27:10.says to me that the Prevent duty is somehow skewed against those of

:27:11. > :27:15.colour. Let me bring in Alex Kenney from the National Union of Teachers

:27:16. > :27:20.who is a teacher at a secondary school and a legal officer for

:27:21. > :27:27.Liberty. I can hear you sighing as Kate tells us the story. Really it

:27:28. > :27:31.is so absurd it is ridiculous, the decision the headteacher made. It is

:27:32. > :27:39.astonishing. I think the school made a bad call when you listen to the

:27:40. > :27:43.story. There was no common sense. It is a story that should make everyone

:27:44. > :27:50.pause and stop and think about how we are dealing with very difficult

:27:51. > :27:55.issues in schools. What we are seeing is the government policy and

:27:56. > :28:02.strategy in this area, the Prevent strategy, and that government policy

:28:03. > :28:06.in this area... It was nothing to do with the Prevent strategy, it was

:28:07. > :28:12.racial discrimination. It may have not been a referral, but it is

:28:13. > :28:19.within the government strategy. It was a toy gun. How was it to do with

:28:20. > :28:23.Prevent? The Prevent strategy places that duty on schools and it has

:28:24. > :28:29.created a fog of confusion and fear in schools. I am sorry, if you were

:28:30. > :28:36.on duty that day, there is no way you would have called the police.

:28:37. > :28:41.No, but what happened is schools are scared, there is a fear about

:28:42. > :28:45.getting things wrong. There is an expectation that schools should pick

:28:46. > :28:49.up on the smallest things and discuss them and referred them.

:28:50. > :28:53.Schools are more scared of not reporting something than reporting

:28:54. > :29:01.something and getting it wrong. That has got to be entirely wrong. The

:29:02. > :29:09.Home Office tell us, as do the police, it is not a Prevent case,

:29:10. > :29:17.under its schools are required to have due regard to prevent children

:29:18. > :29:23.from being drawn into extremism. What do you think? It is

:29:24. > :29:27.disingenuous. It only happened because of the Prevent duty. The

:29:28. > :29:34.teachers have done some training and they believe they might have two

:29:35. > :29:37.report this because of Prevent. It is the fact they did not do it

:29:38. > :29:43.properly, but that does not mean that they did not do it under

:29:44. > :29:47.Prevent. The teacher did not say anything to the headteacher until 24

:29:48. > :29:53.hours later. She thought about it and she got maybe she had to put it

:29:54. > :30:00.under Prevent, she was not sure, the guidance was not clear. It was a toy

:30:01. > :30:05.gun, she was a teacher. Of course it is ridiculous, it is discrimination,

:30:06. > :30:08.but it is disingenuous to suggest Prevent did not cause this. It is

:30:09. > :30:13.fundamentally the reason it happened. If the strategy did not

:30:14. > :30:19.exist, I do not think the school would have made that referral. You

:30:20. > :30:23.could say if racial discrimination did not exist, the school would not

:30:24. > :30:31.have called the police. I think it is the former. What this strategy

:30:32. > :30:36.does is it shines a light on Muslim children or children who are

:30:37. > :30:41.non-white. One of the problems with the Prevent strategy is there is no

:30:42. > :30:44.accreditation or regulation on who does the training. There is a whole

:30:45. > :30:49.industry who do training in schools and we have heard of cases where

:30:50. > :30:54.people have been told by trainers that learning Arabic or deciding to

:30:55. > :31:00.wear a hijab might consider cause for concern. So you are creating

:31:01. > :31:05.this suspicion. You are creating a confusion in schools about when to

:31:06. > :31:11.use their judgment. You are creating tension between teachers and young

:31:12. > :31:15.people about what are legitimate subjects for discussion and how to

:31:16. > :31:16.have those discussions. It is alienating. It will alienate young

:31:17. > :31:25.people. T-marks these children out as other.

:31:26. > :31:30.It marks them out not to their teachers, but their classmates and

:31:31. > :31:33.that's problematic. It legitimises discrimination in schools and that's

:31:34. > :31:37.why so many people have been calling for a review of the Prevent. The

:31:38. > :31:40.National Union of Teachers is saying this is not something we should be

:31:41. > :31:46.forced to have due regard to in the same way as is currently legislated

:31:47. > :31:52.for. The legislation is so unclear. Definitions are unclear. It doesn't

:31:53. > :31:56.even properly define extremism. Some people are sympathetic, others

:31:57. > :32:02.aren't. NTL says this is a heartbreaking story. Sarah and

:32:03. > :32:08.David, sorry Peter say this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

:32:09. > :32:12.It was a silly mistake, but dealt with impeccably. These things

:32:13. > :32:17.happen. I would take issue with that and I would say to people to

:32:18. > :32:21.misquote a film badly I'm just a parent standing in front of other

:32:22. > :32:24.parents asking them what if you turned up at your school to collect

:32:25. > :32:30.your children and they were being held in a library away from their

:32:31. > :32:32.friends, scared, what if uniformed officers came into where their

:32:33. > :32:36.children were being held and questioned them? How would they

:32:37. > :32:42.feel? Would it be a mown tonne out of a molehill then? I think not. It

:32:43. > :32:49.is easy to try to dismiss this. I don't have an agenda. I'm not an

:32:50. > :32:54.activist, I'm just a mum. It is not a molehill. One of the

:32:55. > :33:00.things we're looking at is the number of referrals every year and

:33:01. > :33:04.the doubling of the number of referrals through Prevent. Most are

:33:05. > :33:08.coming from schools and the majority are of Muslim people. That's not a

:33:09. > :33:12.sign that we're doubling the number of radicals or extremists every

:33:13. > :33:19.year. It is a sign that the strategy is out of control. And needs a

:33:20. > :33:24.re-think. The police and Home Office say it is nothing do to with

:33:25. > :33:29.Prevent. David says, "I found it astoweding that a teacher wasn't

:33:30. > :33:35.intelligent enough to ask a question to ascertain whether it was a toy or

:33:36. > :33:39.not. Would would move my kids to another school." The school say at

:33:40. > :33:43.no stage did they doubt it was a toy gun that was given to the children.

:33:44. > :33:47.What? Absolutely of the that's what's been through all the papers

:33:48. > :33:51.we have dealt with. They said at no stage did they doubt it was a toy

:33:52. > :33:57.gun. So what was the headteacher playing at? That's a question you'd

:33:58. > :34:00.have to ask her. We're not identifying the teacher or the

:34:01. > :34:02.school because we want to protect the identity of your children. Thank

:34:03. > :34:08.you for your time. Thanks very much to all

:34:09. > :34:31.of you and to Three Counties Radio I want to report my daughter who is

:34:32. > :34:36.missing. The nation were shocked by the fake kidnapping of shaon

:34:37. > :34:39.Matthews. The BBC have dramatised the story around her disappearance

:34:40. > :34:42.and we will be talking to two people who were at the centre of the story

:34:43. > :34:51.at the time. We'll be crossing the Atlantic

:34:52. > :34:54.to speak to a Republican and Democrat supporter as American

:34:55. > :34:56.government lawyers attempt to convince an appeals court

:34:57. > :34:59.to reinstate President Trump's Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom

:35:00. > :35:09.with a summary of today's news. Plans to treat more patients

:35:10. > :35:13.in the community have so far failed to save money or reduce hospital

:35:14. > :35:14.admissions in England, according to the Government's

:35:15. > :35:17.spending watchdog. The National Audit Office says

:35:18. > :35:18.ministers were over-optimistic in thinking a scheme called

:35:19. > :35:20.the Better Care Fund MPs are to vote on the Brexit Bill

:35:21. > :35:26.today, deciding whether to give Theresa May the power

:35:27. > :35:29.to leave the EU. Last night the government saw off

:35:30. > :35:31.a possible rebellion after promising that any final deal will be put

:35:32. > :35:33.to the Commons. The Prime Minister says she's

:35:34. > :35:36.committed to triggering Article 50 to begin formal talks by the end

:35:37. > :35:40.of next month. Lawyers for President Trump have

:35:41. > :35:42.been trying to convince an appeals court to bring back his travel ban

:35:43. > :35:45.on people from some The court heard that Donald Trump's

:35:46. > :35:51.ban on arrivals from Somalia could help stop members

:35:52. > :35:53.of the terror group al-Shabab But lawyers for two US states said

:35:54. > :35:56.it discriminated against Muslims. Judges will make their

:35:57. > :36:05.decision later this week. The Government's plan to double free

:36:06. > :36:08.childcare for pre-schoolers has been thrown into doubt,

:36:09. > :36:09.with most councils saying they are unsure if they can

:36:10. > :36:12.manage the scheme. The Government's plan to double free

:36:13. > :36:17.childcare for pre-schoolers has From September, three

:36:18. > :36:19.and four-year-olds in England will be entitled to 30 free hours

:36:20. > :36:22.of care a week. But a poll of local authorities has

:36:23. > :36:25.found that more than half say they don't know if they have enough

:36:26. > :36:28.places to offer. That's a summary of

:36:29. > :36:42.the latest BBC News. Here is Will with the sport. The

:36:43. > :36:48.Italian has been given a vote of confidence by the board ahead of

:36:49. > :36:59.tonight's fourth round replay with Derby with Leicester's owner flying

:37:00. > :37:03.over from Thailand for the game. The Football Association chair. A motion

:37:04. > :37:06.in the FA will be debated in the House of Commons tomorrow after five

:37:07. > :37:09.former FA executives said the governing body failed to self

:37:10. > :37:14.reform. Germany's World Cup winning captain

:37:15. > :37:19.has announced he will retire at the end of the season. He will leave

:37:20. > :37:26.Bayern Munich a year before his contract expires. Alastair Cook says

:37:27. > :37:29.Joe Root would did a good job if he is appointed as captain. Cook

:37:30. > :37:31.stepped down on Monday saying it's sad to walk away. I will have more

:37:32. > :37:38.for you at 10am. In 2008, the disappearance of this

:37:39. > :37:40.girl 9-year old Shannon Matthews in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire,

:37:41. > :37:43.sparked a massive search involving After 24 days Shannon was found

:37:44. > :37:50.hidden under a bed in the home of Michael Donovan,

:37:51. > :37:54.who was found to have faked the kidnapping

:37:55. > :37:56.with Shannon's mother Karen, Last night, the first

:37:57. > :38:01.part of The Moorside, a dramatisation of the case

:38:02. > :38:07.on BBC One. Police emergency, I want to report

:38:08. > :38:10.my daughter as missing, please. The response of this community has

:38:11. > :38:21.been absolutely amazing. Whoever has got Shannon,

:38:22. > :38:27.please let her go. This has been our biggest

:38:28. > :38:31.inquiry since the Ripper, we've spent millions

:38:32. > :38:33.and we still haven't You both know she has

:38:34. > :38:38.been lying to us. We're joined from our Leeds studio

:38:39. > :38:47.by two people who saw the real search unfold,

:38:48. > :38:52.Susan Howgate, who is a cousin of Shannon's mother Karen Matthews

:38:53. > :38:55.and the Reverend Kathy Robertson responsible for St John

:38:56. > :39:03.the Evangelist in Dewsbury Moor, Thank you very much for talking to

:39:04. > :39:13.us. Susan, what do you recall about that search? Well, the first night

:39:14. > :39:20.when she went missing my husband went up to her house and he came

:39:21. > :39:24.back and he said, "Shannon, one of the children is missing." I said no.

:39:25. > :39:28.So I went up and the police and everything were like there. I put me

:39:29. > :39:40.arms around her and sat down and that and then like I said, she was

:39:41. > :39:44.crying. This is Karen, this is Shannon's mum, you mean? Yeah. I

:39:45. > :39:48.just put me hands around her and said if you need me, just give me a

:39:49. > :39:53.phone call, you know where I am. I says I will be there. I said the day

:39:54. > :39:59.after we went up, me and me husband and that and we were like there

:40:00. > :40:04.nearly every day going out searching parks, wherever we could. And you

:40:05. > :40:15.believed her? Pardon? You believed her? Karen Matthews initially? Well,

:40:16. > :40:21.at first, yeah, I thought, well, like I said I had stuff in my mind

:40:22. > :40:25.thinking why has she disappeared? I trusted her, you know what I mean

:40:26. > :40:32.and when I found out that she had done it, you know what I mean, it

:40:33. > :40:35.just made me sick. Reverend tell us how the community

:40:36. > :40:38.came together at this time? Well, the community just really pulled

:40:39. > :40:41.together, there was some strong leadership within the community.

:40:42. > :40:49.Everybody sort of mucked in. They searched. They gave up their time to

:40:50. > :40:52.look for Shannon and to support one another. There was a real sense of

:40:53. > :40:56.that community, a real sense of belonging to the community and a

:40:57. > :41:01.real sense that Shannon belonging to that community as well and obviously

:41:02. > :41:05.they wanted her to return to the place where she belonged. Yes. And

:41:06. > :41:11.so when the community found out that some of their own had been, you

:41:12. > :41:17.know, conning them, effectively, how did that affect people? Well, it

:41:18. > :41:21.affected people in a very different way. There was a lot of perhaps

:41:22. > :41:29.disappointment surrounding it, some people felt they had been betrayed

:41:30. > :41:35.in some way. But obviously the mood definitely changed on the Moor. Yes.

:41:36. > :41:41.Did you watch the programme last night, Susan? What did you think of

:41:42. > :41:49.it? Well, the programme I agreed that the community and everything

:41:50. > :41:54.come together, but some of the stuff on that drama is just false. What

:41:55. > :41:59.did you think wasn't representative of what actually happened? It is a

:42:00. > :42:06.drama in the end, isn't it? Well, yeah, it is a drama, but there is

:42:07. > :42:11.some parts of the drama where I didn't agree, you know, what I mean?

:42:12. > :42:16.Like I said, this is going to come out and then it's going to affect

:42:17. > :42:21.all the family again and other people. I just didn't agree with it

:42:22. > :42:31.coming out. What affect has this whole case had

:42:32. > :42:37.on your wider family, Susan? Well, I have had a lot of bother. I have had

:42:38. > :42:43.my windows put through. My auntie has been getting grief. Stuff like

:42:44. > :42:48.that. It's just, but like I say with this drama coming out now, it's

:42:49. > :42:53.probably going to, well not me especially, but my auntie, it could

:42:54. > :42:56.affect, you know, affect her again. Why have you had your windows put

:42:57. > :43:03.through in the past? Because they found out that I was related to her

:43:04. > :43:09.and you know, like I am a cousin. They found out. They had seen me on

:43:10. > :43:13.TV and everything, but I had all me windows put through and I had to get

:43:14. > :43:19.out of the house and I had to leave half of my furniture and some

:43:20. > :43:23.personal belongings. So simply being a member of the wider family, having

:43:24. > :43:39.the Matthews surname was enough for you to be targeted? I don't have the

:43:40. > :43:43.Matthews surname, but my maiden name was Wadden, I've never been a

:43:44. > :43:49.Matthews. What do you think about that, the way the family has been

:43:50. > :43:53.targeted in the way Susan described? It is distressing. It is not fair

:43:54. > :43:58.and it is not right that other people should be targeted in any way

:43:59. > :44:01.shape, sherbly or physically. Thank you both very much for coming on the

:44:02. > :44:09.programme. I really appreciate your time. Thanks Susan. A cousin of

:44:10. > :44:17.Karen Matthews. Coming up: The streaming device

:44:18. > :44:20.subject of a series of police American government lawyers have

:44:21. > :44:24.been trying to convince an appeals court to reinstate President Trump's

:44:25. > :44:27.ban on people from seven mainly Muslim countries

:44:28. > :44:30.entering the United States. They said Mr Trump has acted

:44:31. > :44:33.within his powers and that the court which suspended the ban last week

:44:34. > :44:35.made an error. The BBC's Rajini Vaidyanathan has

:44:36. > :44:38.the background an explains why the US Supreme Court is likely

:44:39. > :44:42.to have the final verdict. Almost as soon as the ink had dried

:44:43. > :44:45.on President Trump's executive A number of different cases have

:44:46. > :44:54.come before the courts. The first prevented US

:44:55. > :44:57.immigration officials from deporting anyone who had come

:44:58. > :44:59.to the US from those seven countries, or as a refugee,

:45:00. > :45:03.since the ban took effect. But it didn't take long

:45:04. > :45:05.for lawyers to challenge Cases have been filed

:45:06. > :45:20.from coast-to-coast. A court in Massachusetts

:45:21. > :45:22.temporarily halted President Trump's executive order,

:45:23. > :45:24.allowing those affected to fly to But then, a week later,

:45:25. > :45:29.in a victory for President Trump, the same court ruled that

:45:30. > :45:33.that travel ban was back on. But it only took a day

:45:34. > :45:36.for the executive order to be blocked again,

:45:37. > :45:39.this time by a court in Seattle. Lawyers there argued that

:45:40. > :45:41.President Trump's travel restrictions would hurt their

:45:42. > :45:43.economy because they rely so heavily It has the ability to hold everybody

:45:44. > :45:49.accountable to it, and that includes the President

:45:50. > :45:51.of the United States. President Trump has been

:45:52. > :45:54.tweeting his support for his law, and his administration say

:45:55. > :45:56.they'll fight all these legal It is just frustrating to see

:45:57. > :46:01.a federal judge in Washington state conducting American foreign

:46:02. > :46:04.policy, or making decisions about So, we can expect these

:46:05. > :46:08.court rulings to go Whoever is on the losing

:46:09. > :46:13.side is likely to It could take months

:46:14. > :46:18.for this case to eventually reach the US Supreme Court,

:46:19. > :46:20.the highest law of the land. The current confusion around

:46:21. > :46:26.President Trump's travel restrictions leaves those affected

:46:27. > :46:29.in a bit of a limbo. Donald Trump says his

:46:30. > :46:32.executive order is designed to keep Americans safe,

:46:33. > :46:34.but ultimately, it will be down to America's judges to

:46:35. > :46:45.have the final say. Let's go live to Washington and to a

:46:46. > :46:51.Republican who was a speech writer for George W Bush and Democrat who

:46:52. > :46:56.is a pollster and strategist. Argue for talking to our audience. What

:46:57. > :47:01.sort of pressure is President Trump under over all of this? He is under

:47:02. > :47:06.a lot of pressure, especially after the women's March showed there were

:47:07. > :47:16.a lot of people willing to travel to the capital to oppose his policies.

:47:17. > :47:21.The executive order prompted protests at airports, including

:47:22. > :47:26.Dallas, Washington, and people were protesting very joyfully and happily

:47:27. > :47:30.and the spirit was good, but it has prompted a lot of resistance and

:47:31. > :47:35.opposition from just your average person. Does it matter about that

:47:36. > :47:39.pressure? In the end it will be down to the cause and it may go to the

:47:40. > :47:43.highest court in the land eventually. It does matter for the

:47:44. > :47:49.executive order to come about in the way this one did to stop the Justice

:47:50. > :47:52.Department was not consulted. The Homeland Security agency was not

:47:53. > :47:59.given a chance to weigh in on the implications of this and for it to

:48:00. > :48:03.come out it has been disorganised and it was stopped. It says

:48:04. > :48:08.something about the early days of the presidency, amid reports they

:48:09. > :48:11.are not ready to go and a lot of the posts they want to fill have not

:48:12. > :48:17.been filled and this does not make it look like they are ready and

:48:18. > :48:23.ready to consult the experts who would see what type of problems

:48:24. > :48:28.abound like this would cause. When you see how unpopular this is and

:48:29. > :48:35.how much attention it has got and it continues to feed itself. That is

:48:36. > :48:38.why we have proceedings on something pretty technical broadcast live on

:48:39. > :48:46.cable news and covered in real time in its entirety and that is very

:48:47. > :48:51.unusual and that shows the amount of attention over what is just another

:48:52. > :48:57.flash point and another pain point in this very fractious, damaged

:48:58. > :49:03.transition time. Surely a president is the best place to make decisions

:49:04. > :49:08.about national security? The court serves as a check and it was one of

:49:09. > :49:21.the issues that came up in the proceedings yesterday. The argument

:49:22. > :49:26.said it did not seem like they were getting a very receptive, open

:49:27. > :49:38.audience for the judges, but we will see over the next few days. Can the

:49:39. > :49:42.court review this? Can the court throw out something that the trial

:49:43. > :49:47.administration wants, but there is also the issue of intent and that is

:49:48. > :49:51.where the politics come in. Let's look at the four corners of the

:49:52. > :49:56.document, let's look at the words in the executive order, but the other

:49:57. > :49:59.argument is we should be looking at the intent and when you have the

:50:00. > :50:05.president very consistently saying how he wants a Muslim ban. Rudy

:50:06. > :50:10.Giuliani was an adviser of the president and afterwards he said on

:50:11. > :50:15.the TV two weeks ago the president wanted the Muslim ban and he asked

:50:16. > :50:19.me how to do it legally. The majority of Americans think the

:50:20. > :50:26.intent was to have a Muslim ban and it plays a role in the legality of

:50:27. > :50:31.this. President Trump himself said it is definitely not a Muslim ban.

:50:32. > :50:36.It is popular with plenty of people. Had it been carried out with a bit

:50:37. > :50:39.more thought and consultation and less swiftly, he might not have

:50:40. > :50:45.found his executive order in the course anyway. It probably would

:50:46. > :50:49.have still been challenged, but it would not have had the same

:50:50. > :50:55.attention. The law does give the president the authority to suspend

:50:56. > :50:59.immigration of aliens and that law was passed long before Donald Trump

:51:00. > :51:04.was president. The tram administration themselves argue they

:51:05. > :51:08.did not pick the seven nations identified in the executive order.

:51:09. > :51:15.They were identified in 2015 by the Barack Obama administration as

:51:16. > :51:19.citizens who hold dual citizenship and they will not be allowed freely

:51:20. > :51:24.to come in and out of the United States and those were the nations

:51:25. > :51:28.affected by the executive order. Thank you very much for talking to

:51:29. > :51:40.our British audience, Anneka Green, a speech writer for the Democrats

:51:41. > :51:52.and Marjorie Armero, a pollster. Coming up: This is Sian and she lost

:51:53. > :51:58.her husband to leukaemia. The law is about to change from April. She was

:51:59. > :52:01.not married to her husband. We will explain how.

:52:02. > :52:06.These little boxes are the subject of a series of police raids around

:52:07. > :52:13.They in themselves are not illegal but if they're used

:52:14. > :52:15.alongside certain software they are because they allow

:52:16. > :52:18.households to stream TV shows, football matches and films

:52:19. > :52:23.Let's talk to the Director General of the Federation Against Copyright

:52:24. > :52:26.His is the organisation which has been carrying out

:52:27. > :52:31.And the BBC's technology reporter Chris Foxx.

:52:32. > :52:41.I will just bring this equipment with me if I may. Chris, for those

:52:42. > :52:53.who do not know, IP TV box, what are they? Kodi is software, so it pulls

:52:54. > :52:57.in video that you have downloaded, your music collection and things you

:52:58. > :53:07.have streamed on the Internet. It is perfectly legal. The box is legal?

:53:08. > :53:12.You can install Kodi yourself if you want different software to manage

:53:13. > :53:16.your media collection. But also people sell them preloaded and it is

:53:17. > :53:21.already on the box and you buy it as a complete package and some people

:53:22. > :53:25.sell it with add-ons on top of that, third-party add-ons and they

:53:26. > :53:29.sometimes give you access to things like sport, movies, that you have

:53:30. > :53:36.not paid for, and that is what is in question. Hence the popularity?

:53:37. > :53:41.Exactly, everyone likes a free lunch. It is not surprising people

:53:42. > :53:45.look online for a way to stream football that is free. Why are you

:53:46. > :53:52.targeting the people who sell the boxes? What they are selling is

:53:53. > :53:57.preloaded boxes with the availability of this material for a

:53:58. > :54:01.small fee. Clearly we need to go after those who are making that are

:54:02. > :54:04.available, the ones who are distributing and selling those

:54:05. > :54:09.boxes. That is what we did this morning. There were six raids across

:54:10. > :54:17.the north-west of England against very substantial sellers of these

:54:18. > :54:23.boxes. Is that going to be enough to deter consumers, households? Certain

:54:24. > :54:25.things will come out of this. There will be criminal prosecutions and

:54:26. > :54:30.there will be a deterrent effect from that. Within those

:54:31. > :54:33.investigations of these businesses there will be all the records of

:54:34. > :54:38.people who have bought them and we will have to follow up with the

:54:39. > :54:41.police on those enquiries. We do not want to prosecute people who use

:54:42. > :54:45.them, we want to get behind those who make them available, but they

:54:46. > :54:51.will get swept up in the criminal investigation. If you are swept up

:54:52. > :54:57.in this issue, as you put it, what might happen to you? The likely

:54:58. > :55:01.result is you would be asked to make a statement about the purchase of

:55:02. > :55:08.the box to assist the prosecution. But if you were resistant to that or

:55:09. > :55:12.perhaps for some other reason you may get prosecuted for it, you are

:55:13. > :55:15.committing a criminal offence if you use these boxes to download

:55:16. > :55:23.something into your living room that you have not paid for. It is theft.

:55:24. > :55:28.Yes. If it was me I would say I had no idea, I was buying this box with

:55:29. > :55:35.all these add-ons legally, I thought it was legal. I do not think it is a

:55:36. > :55:44.problem, people know you have to pay for it. If you are not getting these

:55:45. > :55:46.preloaded boxes in big supermarkets or the high street, but from

:55:47. > :55:52.independent retailers who advertise you can get all of this for free, if

:55:53. > :55:57.you install it on an Amazon box, it is a bit of a factor do and you have

:55:58. > :56:03.to have some know how to get the Kodi software and then the add-ons.

:56:04. > :56:07.That is probably not a very good defence in this case. How much does

:56:08. > :56:13.this cost the film industry and the football right industry each year?

:56:14. > :56:20.The overall picture is unknown because it is so large scale.

:56:21. > :56:24.Really? Forecourt purposes we looked at each individual case and see how

:56:25. > :56:28.much the potential cost has been to the industry and then we can

:56:29. > :56:35.extrapolate that to make a bigger picture. As a consumer, what would

:56:36. > :56:41.you say to a household who think this is a good advice? The history

:56:42. > :56:47.of pirating TV is nothing new. People used to get viewing cards to

:56:48. > :56:52.watch the sport for free. If you have got a Kodi box at home there is

:56:53. > :56:56.nothing to be alarmed about. If somebody has installed it, it is

:56:57. > :57:01.fine, but if you are unknowingly using it to watch things you have

:57:02. > :57:04.not paid for, that is an issue. I do not suspect the police will come out

:57:05. > :57:11.to everybody's has otherwise they will never be finished. Thank you

:57:12. > :57:14.for your comment about the teacher, the headteacher, who called the

:57:15. > :57:19.police after a little boy said he had a toy gun. The mother was on the

:57:20. > :57:24.programme saying this would never have happened if the child had been

:57:25. > :57:29.white. Kennedy says, I do not think the teacher was being racist, just

:57:30. > :57:35.foolish. Mike says, this is just racism. Ellie says, did this really

:57:36. > :57:41.happen? The teachers need referral. Sarah says, I am not sure whether

:57:42. > :57:46.this is about Prevent or not, but it is a shocking lack of common sense.

:57:47. > :57:47.I feel for the parents. Keep those coming in. Let's get the latest

:57:48. > :57:57.weather. This morning we have had a real host

:57:58. > :58:03.of different weather. It is a cold start to the day across the

:58:04. > :58:07.Highlands, but a bright one. As we come further south into Yorkshire we

:58:08. > :58:11.can see the beautiful rainbow. We have got this ridge of high pressure

:58:12. > :58:17.in the West keeping things fairly settled but cold. Then we have got

:58:18. > :58:21.this weather front in the East. That will drift further west today

:58:22. > :58:28.allowing the cold, Continental air to come in behind it across many

:58:29. > :58:33.parts of the UK. Through the course of the morning we hang onto the cold

:58:34. > :58:39.conditions in the West, but patchy fog now starting to live. In Central

:58:40. > :58:44.and eastern areas with cloud we are looking at showers and a keen

:58:45. > :58:49.easterly wind coming off the North Sea. Bright skies in western

:58:50. > :58:53.Scotland, snow over the Grampians and as we come across northern

:58:54. > :58:58.England and much of England actually, there is a lot of cloud

:58:59. > :59:02.around. You might see the odd sunny break, but that will be the

:59:03. > :59:08.exception rather than the rule. The odd wintry showers on the east

:59:09. > :59:14.coast. For South West England it is a beautiful day with sunshine and

:59:15. > :59:19.not as cold. Similar in West Wales. In Aberystwyth we are looking at

:59:20. > :59:24.about eight Celsius. Move away from the sunshine and we are back into

:59:25. > :59:30.the cloud. Northern Ireland has quite a bit of sunshine around after

:59:31. > :59:33.a cold start. In the evening and overnight we hang onto this keen

:59:34. > :59:40.easterly wind along the east Coast. There will be snow on the Grampians

:59:41. > :59:49.and at lower levels and down the East Coast and some of the showers

:59:50. > :59:53.will be sleet and snow. There will be a widespread frost and the risk

:59:54. > :59:58.of ice on untreated surfaces. In the West tomorrow we will see some

:59:59. > :00:05.sunshine and in central and eastern areas they are not immune to the

:00:06. > :00:09.wintry showers. Inland we are looking at sleet and snow. By

:00:10. > :00:16.tomorrow the cold air will be right across the land.

:00:17. > :00:23.Good morning. Today the warning from a Government spending watchdog that

:00:24. > :00:27.one way to ease pressure on the NHS is to bring together health and

:00:28. > :00:32.social care and not saving money or freeing up beds in England. Also

:00:33. > :00:35.today, a mother whose sons were interviewed by police after one of

:00:36. > :00:42.them told their teacher about their new toy, a gun, has told us the

:00:43. > :00:48.family's reputation is in ruins. A toy gun would never justify

:00:49. > :00:52.holding children for an hour-and-a-half, two hours, and

:00:53. > :00:56.having them scared by uniformed officers, having our reputation as a

:00:57. > :01:02.family thrashed. You can see the full interview on

:01:03. > :01:06.our programme page. Jill says, "My son Chris was pulled

:01:07. > :01:12.aside by the authorities when he took his green plastic water pistol

:01:13. > :01:18.in his backpack on holiday. They shocked us. We are white. We made

:01:19. > :01:23.light of the whole thing as parents should." Youngied owers tell us why

:01:24. > :01:26.an allowance they receive because their partner has died is an

:01:27. > :01:33.essential part of their income and should not be cut.

:01:34. > :01:36.Madonna is back in Malawi to adopt four-year-old twin girls. If you

:01:37. > :01:43.have adopted a child from abroad, let me know your experience.

:01:44. > :01:46.Here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:01:47. > :01:49.Plans to treat more patients in the community have so far

:01:50. > :01:51.failed to save money, or reduce hospital admissions

:01:52. > :01:56.in England, according to the government's spending watchdog.

:01:57. > :01:58.The National Audit Office says ministers were over-optimistic

:01:59. > :02:00.in thinking a scheme called the Better Care Fund

:02:01. > :02:07.MPs are to vote on the Brexit Bill today, deciding whether to give

:02:08. > :02:09.Theresa May the power to leave the EU.

:02:10. > :02:11.Last night the Government saw off a possible rebellion after promising

:02:12. > :02:14.that any final deal will be put to the Commons.

:02:15. > :02:16.The Prime Minister says she's committed to triggering Article 50

:02:17. > :02:31.to begin formal talks by the end of next month.

:02:32. > :02:33.A mum says compensation paid to her two young sons

:02:34. > :02:35.after they were racially discriminated against,

:02:36. > :02:38.will never make up for the distress they were put through when police

:02:39. > :02:41.were called to the school over toy guns they were given as presents.

:02:42. > :02:44.Central Bedfordshire Council have apologised for how the two boys

:02:45. > :02:46.were treated and said it was due to the school not following

:02:47. > :02:48.council procedures around safeguarding concerns.

:02:49. > :02:50.The boys, who were five and seven at the time,

:02:51. > :02:52.were segregated from classmates and spoken to by police

:02:53. > :02:54.after concerns were raised by teachers that they could in fact

:02:55. > :02:59.The mother says her sons would never have been

:03:00. > :03:10.The boys both suffer nightmares. Nigh youngster who is only five gets

:03:11. > :03:10.scared that he's going to be taken away from his siblings. He wakes up

:03:11. > :03:14.in the night. Lawyers for President Trump have

:03:15. > :03:17.been trying to convince an appeals court to bring back his travel ban

:03:18. > :03:20.on people from some The court heard that Donald Trump's

:03:21. > :03:24.ban on arrivals from Somalia could help stop members

:03:25. > :03:26.of the terror group al-Shabab But lawyers for two US states said

:03:27. > :03:29.it discriminated against Muslims. Judges will make their

:03:30. > :03:37.decision later this week. The Government's plans to double

:03:38. > :03:40.free childcare for pre-schoolers has been thrown into doubt,

:03:41. > :03:42.with most councils saying they are unsure if they can

:03:43. > :03:44.manage the scheme. From September, three

:03:45. > :03:46.and four-year-olds in England will be entitled to 30 free hours

:03:47. > :03:49.of care a week. But a poll of local authorities has

:03:50. > :03:52.found that more than half say they don't know if they have enough

:03:53. > :03:54.places to offer. Victim support groups are calling

:03:55. > :03:56.for more protection for rape Some rape victims say

:03:57. > :04:04.they were interrogated about their own sexual history

:04:05. > :04:05.while giving evidence Today MPs will debate a bill that

:04:06. > :04:08.would stop defence lawyers from this That's a summary of

:04:09. > :04:13.the latest BBC News. Here's some sport

:04:14. > :04:27.now with Will Perry. Leicester manager Claudio Ranieri

:04:28. > :04:29.has denied that there's a crisis at the club despite the reigning

:04:30. > :04:32.Premier League champions being just The Italian's been given a vote

:04:33. > :04:38.of confidence by the board ahead of tonight's FA Cup 4th round replay

:04:39. > :04:40.against Derby with Leicester's owner flying over from

:04:41. > :04:42.Thailand for the game. Leicester are yet to win

:04:43. > :04:44.in the league this season They sit just one point

:04:45. > :04:51.above the relegation zone. There is no crisis. When you don't

:04:52. > :04:55.win you lack a little confidence, it's normal. It's normal, but

:04:56. > :05:03.fortunately these players are warriors because they are used to

:05:04. > :05:06.fighting. They already leave this situation. They leave the good

:05:07. > :05:20.things, but also the better things. Football Association chairman

:05:21. > :05:22.Greg Clarke says he will quit if the organisation can't win

:05:23. > :05:24.government support A motion of no confidence in the FA

:05:25. > :05:28.will be debated in the House of Commons tomorrow after five

:05:29. > :05:31.former FA executives said the governing body had

:05:32. > :05:32.failed to "self-reform". Germany's World Cup winning captain

:05:33. > :05:34.Philipp Lahm will retire The 33-year-old announced his

:05:35. > :05:38.decision after Bayern's German Cup It means he will leave Bayern,

:05:39. > :05:43.where he's won seven League titles and the Champions League,

:05:44. > :05:46.a year before his contract expires. Alistair Cook says Joe Root is ready

:05:47. > :05:49.to succeed him as England Test captain but thinks

:05:50. > :05:52.there are a number of other Cook stepped down on Monday

:05:53. > :05:58.and says it's sad to walk away with Root the favourite

:05:59. > :06:06.to be appointed skipper. I think he'd do a very good job. He

:06:07. > :06:11.has got a huge amount of respect in the dressing room. But there is

:06:12. > :06:16.other people as well. Ben Stokes has got a leadership role no doubt at

:06:17. > :06:23.some stage. I think the way he has improved. He is one of those people

:06:24. > :06:29.that people gravitate. Jonny Bairstow and Jos Butler did a great

:06:30. > :06:34.job in Bangladesh. We're lucky there is a good group of people pushing

:06:35. > :06:47.forward. Hover gets it will do a great job.

:06:48. > :06:49.The chairman of the Japanese golf club set to host the sport

:06:50. > :06:52.at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics says they are bewildered by requests

:06:53. > :06:54.to lift its ban on women becoming full members.

:06:55. > :06:57.The International Golf Federation has said it will consider moving

:06:58. > :07:00.Olympic golf at the Games to another venue if the current club refuses

:07:01. > :07:04.The club currently allows women to join only as partial members

:07:05. > :07:11.That's the sport, I'll bring you the headlines at 10.30am.

:07:12. > :07:14.Sian is a mum of twin seven-year-old boys and is a police officer.

:07:15. > :07:16.Last year her husband died of leukaemia, he was just 40.

:07:17. > :07:20.She says she is one of the "lucky ones" because she is entitled

:07:21. > :07:22.to something called the widowed parents allowance.

:07:23. > :07:25.It's a benefit you're entitled to if your husband or wife dies,

:07:26. > :07:28.but you must have children, be under 45, and crucially be

:07:29. > :07:34.married or in a civil partnership to be eligible for the payments

:07:35. > :07:36.which last until the child is out of a parent's care.

:07:37. > :07:42.But this is about to change and Sian has written to her MP to raise

:07:43. > :07:54.the issue, not for herself, but for others.

:07:55. > :07:56.In my humble opinion, it should be available

:07:57. > :07:59.to all parents who are bringing up bereaved children.

:08:00. > :08:01.I know of someone whose partner died last year,

:08:02. > :08:04.They weren't married, so she's not entitled to WPA.

:08:05. > :08:07.Why is that they be not entitled to help from the Government

:08:08. > :08:09.in the form of payments is her dad paid in?

:08:10. > :08:14.Is no child should have to live in poverty because their mother

:08:15. > :08:16.I am only six months into this horrendous journey,

:08:17. > :08:19.but I cannot see how a year from now I would be in any less

:08:20. > :08:23.My children are not suddenly going to be able to fend for themselves

:08:24. > :08:26.Widowed parents are the only parents the children have.

:08:27. > :08:29.We are our children's everything, and quite frankly, I would not be

:08:30. > :08:32.able to be the parent my children need and deserve without

:08:33. > :08:48.That's just part of Sian's very moving letter.

:08:49. > :08:51.From April this year the payments will only last for 18 months.

:08:52. > :08:54.At the moment when a spouse or civil partner dies there is ?2,000

:08:55. > :08:57.tax-free sum then a monthly payment of ?487 which will be taxed.

:08:58. > :08:59.Under the new system, the tax-free lump sum goes up

:09:00. > :09:12.to ?3,500 followed by 18 monthly payments of ?350.

:09:13. > :09:18.If you are on this allowance your payments won't be affected.

:09:19. > :09:20.Let's talk now to Ros Evans who lost her husband two

:09:21. > :09:28.She's now 47 and her husband died when he was 46 and they have two

:09:29. > :09:30.children aged six and 12, and Georgia Elms who is chairman

:09:31. > :09:34.of charity Widowed and Young which helps those who have been

:09:35. > :09:37.affected by a partner's death early in life.

:09:38. > :09:44.And MP Debbie Abrahams who speaks for Labour. Thank you very much for

:09:45. > :09:50.coming on the programme. Ros I wonder if you could give us a little

:09:51. > :09:55.insight into what it's like to lose your partner when you are so young,

:09:56. > :09:58.when he was so young? It is something you just never expect.

:09:59. > :10:06.Mike was full of life. He worked hard. He played hard. He had a great

:10:07. > :10:14.joy for life full stop. Life was for today and for living. He was only

:10:15. > :10:23.46, at age 44 in June 2012 he got diagnosed with testicular cancer, by

:10:24. > :10:29.that point it was a lump in his stopl auk and started bleeding. He

:10:30. > :10:32.had chemotherapy, surgery, he had kidney failurement we lived on a

:10:33. > :10:35.cancer rollercoaster. You never knew what was going to happen. You never

:10:36. > :10:40.knew how you were going to get through that night. So we were so

:10:41. > :10:44.busy or I was so busy trying to keep him living and looking after the

:10:45. > :10:47.children and finding people to give them to through every single

:10:48. > :10:50.emergency which happened continually to think about what would happen

:10:51. > :10:56.afterwards. I had no idea how we would sur rife

:10:57. > :10:59.afterwards because you're too busy trying to keep somebody alive thaw

:11:00. > :11:03.don't expect to die. Even when he went in the hospice I thought he

:11:04. > :11:08.might just come home and pick up a bit of strength. Hope continues.

:11:09. > :11:14.After he died you decided to give up work to be a full-time mum and the

:11:15. > :11:20.widowed parents allowance helped you do that? I worked in the theatre

:11:21. > :11:27.industry for over 20 years on the technical side doing lighting, great

:11:28. > :11:31.time, great career, long hours, difficult to deal with children. I

:11:32. > :11:36.continued to work when I had my first child around my husband's

:11:37. > :11:40.work. He was paid more. He worked in the corporate industry so he was

:11:41. > :11:43.away a lot too. When we had our second child I didn't work in the

:11:44. > :11:48.first year because it couldn't coincide with his work schedule and

:11:49. > :11:53.then after that he was just away a lot. The Motor Shows come one after

:11:54. > :11:59.the other, the other in the spring and he then got cancer when she was

:12:00. > :12:02.18 months. I didn't make a conscious decision

:12:03. > :12:06.to give up, that's the way it happened. I had to look after him

:12:07. > :12:10.and young children and there was no possibility of even thinking about

:12:11. > :12:15.work. How important has the widowed parents allowance been for you? It's

:12:16. > :12:19.my main source of income. It is topped up by child tax credits and

:12:20. > :12:23.child benefit. I'm two-and-a-half years, so beyond the point that it

:12:24. > :12:28.would now stop and it is still my main source of income. I don't have

:12:29. > :12:31.experience in any other kind of work and it's difficult for me to go back

:12:32. > :12:37.to my own job. I have started aplaying for jobs. I filled in my

:12:38. > :12:44.first ever application form. The theatre industry works on who you

:12:45. > :12:47.know in your last job. I may have to train into something different. I

:12:48. > :12:51.need to look after my children first. But as you are a current

:12:52. > :12:59.recipient of this allowance, as I understand t you won't be affected?

:13:00. > :13:03.No. What will happen is for new claimants from April, people would

:13:04. > :13:08.only be eligible for this for 15 months, you would get ?3,000

:13:09. > :13:18.upsfropbt and ?350 for 18 months. Is that enough? No way. No way. --

:13:19. > :13:22.upfront. I found out I was pregnant the day after my husband died so I

:13:23. > :13:29.could have claimed that until she is 18. Like Ros I have been working

:13:30. > :13:32.part-time and it enables you to be around for your children that are

:13:33. > :13:35.grieving, you know, suddenly, you know, it's not just your own grief

:13:36. > :13:38.that you have to deal with, you have to be there to support your

:13:39. > :13:46.children. And you don't have any, you know, you don't have back-up. So

:13:47. > :13:51.it's, that money helps you with extra childcare and it enables you

:13:52. > :13:54.to be able to work part-time and 18 months is just nowhere near enough.

:13:55. > :14:08.Is this is what the DWP say: A DWP spokesman said:

:14:09. > :14:10."The old system, introduced more than 90 years ago,

:14:11. > :14:12.was based on the outdated assumption that a widowed parent relied

:14:13. > :14:15.on their spouse for income, This doesn't reflect

:14:16. > :14:18.people's lives today. The new Bereavement Support Payment

:14:19. > :14:21.restores fairness to the system and focuses support

:14:22. > :14:22.during the 18-month period after a loved one dies,

:14:23. > :14:24.when they need it the most. It is also easier to claim, it

:14:25. > :14:28.won't be taxed and will be subject to a disregard for benefit claims,

:14:29. > :14:35.helping those on the lowest We could survive on my husband's

:14:36. > :14:40.wage. He was paid a decent wage. Our outgoings weren't huge. They are

:14:41. > :14:44.saying, it won't be taxed. It is really that 18 month period after a

:14:45. > :14:48.loved one died that you need the support? It is not 18 months.

:14:49. > :14:54.They're basically saying that my daughter when she was 18 months old,

:14:55. > :14:59.that's it, you don't need any help. Family Allowance, that lasts until

:15:00. > :15:03.they are 18. So they think, they're not taxing it, but at the moment it

:15:04. > :15:12.is being taxed at probably the same amount. So no, it is not, it is an

:15:13. > :15:18.insult to say it is difficult for the first 18 months. It's not. It's

:15:19. > :15:21.ten years for me. This is money that my husband paid into with his

:15:22. > :15:27.national insurance. It is not their money. Had he lived it would have

:15:28. > :15:33.been his pension. The other thing, they're saying that they are

:15:34. > :15:37.modernising it. If they're modernising why haven't they

:15:38. > :15:41.included people who are not married? One in six children are born to

:15:42. > :15:45.parents who are not married and they're ignoring them. Debbie

:15:46. > :15:53.Abrahams, as a Labour MP you don't agree with the changes that are

:15:54. > :15:58.coming in in in April. In April? Is there any chance of a reprieve? It

:15:59. > :16:01.is under hand. The Government introduced it as a secondary

:16:02. > :16:08.legislation, it won't be debated on the floor of the House so we're

:16:09. > :16:12.pushing for that. As Ros and Georgia outlined, the impact around child

:16:13. > :16:18.poverty for example, we know that three-quarters of the parents who

:16:19. > :16:24.are bereaved, 40,000 children are affected in 2015 will lose on

:16:25. > :16:28.Arsenaling ?17,000. This really compounds the grief that they're

:16:29. > :16:32.experiencing the opportunities they have to comfort their children, but

:16:33. > :16:51.putting financial pressure on them. It is a new low for the Government.

:16:52. > :16:59.The people who are eligible will have no idea. Somebody could die in

:17:00. > :17:06.a car crash and they could say you have no right. It will not be

:17:07. > :17:11.upgraded with inflation, six months after somebody has been bereaved,

:17:12. > :17:17.they have to demonstrate that they are actively looking for work. It

:17:18. > :17:21.really is absolutely appalling. It is very hard with young children.

:17:22. > :17:27.Absolutely, they compound the grief they are experiencing. 4 million

:17:28. > :17:33.children are already living in poverty. The potential impact of

:17:34. > :17:39.this will increase and this is a lifetime effect, it is appalling.

:17:40. > :17:45.When you are in opposition it is easy to say these things. When you

:17:46. > :17:49.are in government you have to make these really hard decisions. If this

:17:50. > :17:55.is the type of society we want to live in, we have had tax cuts for

:17:56. > :17:59.the wealthiest, we know from the Institute for Fiscal Studies

:18:00. > :18:06.analysis that the people on the highest incomes have been the net

:18:07. > :18:09.beneficiaries of tax changes. It is people on low incomes particularly

:18:10. > :18:18.who will be affected. It just is appalling. It is challenging being

:18:19. > :18:22.widowed as well as having to do this as well. You found out the day after

:18:23. > :18:29.your partner died that you were pregnant. I cannot imagine what it

:18:30. > :18:36.is like. Yes, it was a very difficult time. My daughter Scarlett

:18:37. > :18:44.still says, my daddy did not know I existed. Yes, it was very...

:18:45. > :18:50.Obviously you can show her photographs of her dad, do you talk

:18:51. > :18:57.about him a lot? Yes, I do, to make sure there is a bond. When I tell

:18:58. > :19:04.her off, she says, my daddy would not have told be off and I say, yes

:19:05. > :19:08.he would. And I also tell her about the charity that has saved my life

:19:09. > :19:15.and kept me going, so she is able to mix with other children who have

:19:16. > :19:20.lost their parents. Also we support adults and we say as long as the

:19:21. > :19:26.adult is OK, the child will be OK. We have just been away on a weekend

:19:27. > :19:30.with a load of other families and it makes her realise that she is not

:19:31. > :19:38.the only child like this. But it is horrible. Just telling you a

:19:39. > :19:44.one-year-old daughter that her dad has died is one of the most awful

:19:45. > :19:48.things you can ever do. My eldest daughter started secondary school in

:19:49. > :19:56.September and he should have been there to see that. Your grief just

:19:57. > :20:03.carries on. The government introduced this in 2014, before the

:20:04. > :20:07.2016 welfare format and the two child limit clause and they have

:20:08. > :20:12.reassessed or re-evaluated the financial impact of this. As a

:20:13. > :20:19.minimum they should be doing that and presenting that to the House so

:20:20. > :20:26.we can debate it. How are your children? Aged six and 12? Yes.

:20:27. > :20:32.Three and a half years without their daddy. The younger one, he died when

:20:33. > :20:37.she was two, so she has less physical memories. You have to make

:20:38. > :20:43.those for her. You have to have photo albums to look at regularly.

:20:44. > :20:50.My oldest son has a memory and find it in some ways a lot more sad and

:20:51. > :20:52.does not talk very much. My younger daughter has always been very

:20:53. > :20:58.matter-of-fact and she will talk about it quite a lot. But actually

:20:59. > :21:08.aged six she has become much more clear. She will say suddenly, I want

:21:09. > :21:13.to stay with you. You are the only parent, the only person they have

:21:14. > :21:17.got. So if you are out of work every hour of the day and they are in

:21:18. > :21:22.childcare, they have already lost one parent and they do not want to

:21:23. > :21:27.lose another one. If you do not have that ongoing financial support, that

:21:28. > :21:28.is very difficult. Thank you for talking to us.

:21:29. > :21:38.We asked Caroline Nokes, the parliamentary under-secretary

:21:39. > :21:44.at the DWP, to come on the programme, but

:21:45. > :21:51.MPs will vote again on the bill that could see the formal start

:21:52. > :21:56.A number of changes are being voted on, including protecting the rights

:21:57. > :22:00.The bill will then go to the House of Lords.

:22:01. > :22:02.But what impact is all this having in EU countries?

:22:03. > :22:05.Is it leading to the citizens of other european countries wanting

:22:06. > :22:09.We can talk to our assistant political editor Norman Smith

:22:10. > :22:19.Today is the day when we expect Theresa May to get the thumbs up for

:22:20. > :22:28.her bill triggering our departure from the EU. What is amazing when

:22:29. > :22:31.you think we have had two weeks of Parliamentary argy-bargy, fears that

:22:32. > :22:36.MPs might be able to delay or even derail the plans for Brexit, she

:22:37. > :22:41.seems on course to get that bill through the Commons with an

:22:42. > :22:46.absolutely stonking majority and with no amendments at all. In other

:22:47. > :22:50.words, she will have succeeded in getting her bill through unaltered

:22:51. > :22:56.on her timetable. More than that, she seems also to have basically

:22:57. > :23:02.split her opponents asunder, they are all over the place. Last night

:23:03. > :23:07.we had Tory rebels, those determined to fight her, some of them backing

:23:08. > :23:12.her, some abstaining, some voting against, and on the Labour side they

:23:13. > :23:17.are also at sixes and sevens. Some are determined to resist Brexit even

:23:18. > :23:27.though the party is under the mandate from Jeremy Corbyn to back

:23:28. > :23:31.it. And yesterday the Labour front bench was saying it is a great deal

:23:32. > :23:37.and older Labour heads saying it was a stitch up because they will not be

:23:38. > :23:41.able to send Theresa May back into the negotiating table if they do not

:23:42. > :23:47.like the deal they get. The shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer, this

:23:48. > :23:54.morning insisted it was all going well. It is difficult, I accept we

:23:55. > :23:59.have not got everything we wanted, but we are fighting hard to get the

:24:00. > :24:03.right concessions. There are another two years to go and we will not give

:24:04. > :24:09.up that battle. It is difficult, we are in opposition, but we are trying

:24:10. > :24:14.to get more scrutiny. One of the interesting things is whether this

:24:15. > :24:18.turmoil in Labour ranks prompt more resignations. We know three members

:24:19. > :24:21.of the Shadow Cabinet have already resigned and there is speculation

:24:22. > :24:28.about whether Moore might walk the plank tonight. An interview has been

:24:29. > :24:34.done with the Shadow Business Secretary, Clive Lewis, who was seen

:24:35. > :24:40.as a potential replacement for Jeremy Corbyn, a credible left-wing

:24:41. > :24:44.challenger. He is known to have deep reservations about Theresa May's

:24:45. > :24:49.approach to Brexit. We cannot show you the interview, but I have got

:24:50. > :24:55.the words. He is asked if this your last day in the Shadow Cabinet? I

:24:56. > :25:01.have got to make a decision on how I vote. Which way will you vote? I am

:25:02. > :25:06.going to make my mind up, I do not know, a lot on my plate, see what

:25:07. > :25:13.happens in the lobby today, you guys will be the first to know. Let me

:25:14. > :25:17.translate. The normal reaction of a Shadow Cabinet minister asked that

:25:18. > :25:22.question is of course I will back my leader. That is not what Clive Lewis

:25:23. > :25:27.is saying. From where I am sitting it seems to me he is tinkering on

:25:28. > :25:31.the edge of walking out of the Shadow Cabinet, which explains

:25:32. > :25:39.Jeremy Corbyn's rather terse attitude when he was doorstep to

:25:40. > :25:50.this morning. Good morning, how nice of you to come here this morning.

:25:51. > :25:55.Goodbye. Why the Clive Lewis situation matters is because I

:25:56. > :26:00.suspect if he walks, that will trigger a whole new bout of Jeremy

:26:01. > :26:07.Corbyn leadership speculation. Persistent talk about how long he

:26:08. > :26:14.will go on. The important thing about Clive Lewis is he is not one

:26:15. > :26:18.of the usual suspects, he is not an old Blairite rearguard. But

:26:19. > :26:23.increasingly he has been distancing himself from Jeremy Corbyn on issues

:26:24. > :26:26.like Trident and if he was to walk, that would put rocket fuel under

:26:27. > :26:34.speculation about Jeremy Corbyn's position. If he does walk, another

:26:35. > :26:41.Labour leadership contest? Surely not. You hesitate to say what might

:26:42. > :26:45.happen. It is hard to see another contest being triggered. You would

:26:46. > :26:50.see a lot of manoeuvring and positioning. There are plenty of

:26:51. > :26:55.people on the left who are pretty unhappy about Jeremy Corbyn's

:26:56. > :27:02.leadership. It is not that they dislike him distrust him, they think

:27:03. > :27:08.he is very good. Would they have a capable, ambitious, young,

:27:09. > :27:12.energetic, left-wing leader in Clive Lewis? That might be very attractive

:27:13. > :27:17.to many figures on the left. Figures on the right might take the view

:27:18. > :27:20.better to have a capable left-winger than Jeremy Corbyn who just does not

:27:21. > :27:27.seem to be able to cut through with the electorate. Really interesting

:27:28. > :27:31.times. We are going to talk to somebody who is campaigning for a

:27:32. > :27:34.referendum for the Netherlands to leave the EU.

:27:35. > :27:36.And Thierry Baudet who is campaigning for a referendum

:27:37. > :27:46.What do you think about Britain's decision? It was the best news I

:27:47. > :27:50.have heard in many years. It is something many other countries in

:27:51. > :27:56.Europe will in due course try to follow, the example set by Britain

:27:57. > :28:01.to break free from the European Union and to pursue a cause of

:28:02. > :28:07.freedom and sovereignty once again. I was very happy with the news on

:28:08. > :28:12.the 23rd of June. What impact is it having on the citizens of the

:28:13. > :28:15.Netherlands? Clearly it is galvanising you to campaign for a

:28:16. > :28:21.referendum, what about the rest of the population? What we have seen in

:28:22. > :28:28.the past month is that many people in the Netherlands were saying we

:28:29. > :28:32.cannot get out any more, it is a lost cause. Now with Britain's

:28:33. > :28:37.setting the example we are gaining confidence again that maybe we could

:28:38. > :28:42.be a democratic, sovereign nation once again as well. It is a great

:28:43. > :28:47.example and many people have more confidence now than they used to

:28:48. > :28:52.have in the possibility of a country to reclaim its sovereignty. Another

:28:53. > :28:55.example Britain has set, which is something our leaders have

:28:56. > :29:00.unfortunately not followed in the Netherlands, is to listen to a

:29:01. > :29:04.referendum. We had a referendum on the 6th of April about the

:29:05. > :29:09.association agreement with Ukraine and our leaders brushed it aside and

:29:10. > :29:14.said we will push on with it anyway. It is a great thing that British

:29:15. > :29:17.Parliamentary democracy is still functioning to the extent we will

:29:18. > :29:23.probably see our vote in your Parliament supporting Brexit, even

:29:24. > :29:28.though the Tories were not in favour of it themselves. That is a great

:29:29. > :29:32.example of democracy. You had a referendum about something else and

:29:33. > :29:36.the politicians ignored the answer. What if you had a referendum on

:29:37. > :29:43.leaving the EU and the majority said they wanted to leave, the

:29:44. > :29:47.politicians could ignore the answer? That is a possibility, but I am

:29:48. > :29:55.still confident that politicians cannot ignore referendum after

:29:56. > :29:59.referendum after referendum. We have had two about the European project

:30:00. > :30:03.that have been ignored, the first on the 1st of June in 2005 when we

:30:04. > :30:10.voted about the European constitution. It was passed through

:30:11. > :30:14.under a different name a couple of years later. Earlier this year we

:30:15. > :30:19.had a referendum about the association agreement with the

:30:20. > :30:23.Ukraine and that was ignored. I am confident political leaders will not

:30:24. > :30:28.be able to ignore yet again another referendum. That is if you get one,

:30:29. > :30:34.but a pattern is emerging when it comes to referenda in the

:30:35. > :30:38.Netherlands. Quite right, and it is remarkable. I find it remarkable

:30:39. > :30:44.that the Dutch press is not critical about this. They seem to accept the

:30:45. > :30:47.ignoring of the people's votes rather easily, whereas I think it is

:30:48. > :31:08.remarkable. The mother of back packer

:31:09. > :31:12.Mia Ayluff Chung - murdered in Australia last August -

:31:13. > :31:14.will be on the programme accusing President Trump of using fake news

:31:15. > :31:16.about her daughter's death by falsely claiming she was

:31:17. > :31:19.the victim of terrorist attack. And we want to hear your

:31:20. > :31:21.experiences if you've adopted a child from abroad -

:31:22. > :31:23.that's after Madonna returns to Malawi - this time to adopt twin

:31:24. > :31:30.four-year-old girls. Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom

:31:31. > :31:33.with a summary of the news. Plans to treat more patients

:31:34. > :31:36.in the community have so far failed to save money or reduce hospital

:31:37. > :31:38.admissions in England, according to the Government's

:31:39. > :31:40.spending watchdog. The National Audit Office says

:31:41. > :31:41.ministers were over-optimistic in thinking a scheme called

:31:42. > :31:44.the Better Care Fund could The Supreme Court has ruled that

:31:45. > :31:53.a woman from Northern Ireland should be allowed access to her partner's

:31:54. > :31:56.local government pension, Denise Brewster and Lenny McMullen

:31:57. > :31:59.lived together for ten years. The case is seen as a test

:32:00. > :32:02.of how pension firms With us now is our correspondent

:32:03. > :32:14.Chris Page in Belfast. Tell us how significant this? It is

:32:15. > :32:20.an interesting judgement handed down by the Supreme Court half an hour

:32:21. > :32:23.ago. The case by Denise Brewster from Coleraine in Northern Ireland,

:32:24. > :32:29.she lived with her partner for ten years. They owned their own home and

:32:30. > :32:33.got engaged in 2009, but in the early hours of boxing morning Mr

:32:34. > :32:47.McMullan died suddenly and he had been paying into a 15. Years.

:32:48. > :32:52.Mr McMullan hadn't nominated anyone. What it came down it is

:32:53. > :32:59.discrimination, was it the case the Supreme Court considered that the

:33:00. > :33:03.rights were put above the rights of long-standing co habiting couples

:33:04. > :33:07.and the judges decided that was the case and ruled in Denise Brewster's

:33:08. > :33:09.position. It is a significant judgement with many implications.

:33:10. > :33:15.Thank you very much. MPs are to vote on the Brexit bill

:33:16. > :33:18.today - deciding whether to give Theresa May the power

:33:19. > :33:20.to leave the EU. Last night the Government saw off

:33:21. > :33:23.a possible rebellion after promising that any final deal will be put

:33:24. > :33:25.to the Commons. The Prime Minister says she's

:33:26. > :33:27.committed to triggering Article 50 to begin formal talks by the end

:33:28. > :33:32.of next month. A mum says compensation paid

:33:33. > :33:34.to her two young sons after they were racially

:33:35. > :33:36.discriminated against, will never make up for the distress

:33:37. > :33:39.they were put through when police were called to the school over toy

:33:40. > :33:42.guns they were given as presents.The local education authority has

:33:43. > :33:44.apologised for how the two boys were treated and said it was due

:33:45. > :33:47.to the school not following council procedures around

:33:48. > :33:50.safeguarding concerns. The boys, who were five and seven

:33:51. > :33:53.at the time, were segregated from classmates and spoken

:33:54. > :33:55.to by police after concerns were raised by teachers

:33:56. > :33:57.that they could in fact The mother says her sons have

:33:58. > :34:10.suffered lasting damage. The Government's plans to double

:34:11. > :34:12.free childcare for pre-schoolers has been thrown into doubt,

:34:13. > :34:14.with most councils saying they are unsure if they can

:34:15. > :34:16.manage the scheme. From September, three

:34:17. > :34:19.and four-year-olds in England will be entitled to 30 free hours

:34:20. > :34:21.of care a week. But a poll of local authorities has

:34:22. > :34:24.found that more than half say they don't know if they have enough

:34:25. > :34:28.places to offer. Join me for BBC

:34:29. > :34:52.Newsroom Live at 11am. Leicester's owner is flying over

:34:53. > :34:55.from Thailand for the game. Football Association chairman Greg Clarke

:34:56. > :34:57.says he will quit if the organisation can't win Government

:34:58. > :35:02.support for its reform plans. A motion of no confidence in the FA

:35:03. > :35:06.will be debated in the House of Commons tomorrow after five former

:35:07. > :35:12.FA executives said that the governing body failed to self

:35:13. > :35:16.reform. Germany's World Cup winning captain

:35:17. > :35:21.is to retire. He will leave Bayern Munich a year before his contract

:35:22. > :35:25.expires. And Alastair Cook says Joe Root would do a very good job if he

:35:26. > :35:30.is appointed as his successor as England's Test captain. Root is the

:35:31. > :35:33.favourite. Cook stepped down on Monday and said it is very sad to

:35:34. > :35:37.walk away. I will have more sport for you throughout the day on the

:35:38. > :35:40.BBC News Channel. Hopefully you will be wearing a suit by then because I

:35:41. > :35:49.know you change which is interesting to me. No more than that!

:35:50. > :35:53.Plans to offer 30 hours of free childcare to three and four year

:35:54. > :35:55.olds in England could lead to a shortage of nursery places,

:35:56. > :35:59.The 15 hours per week children currently receive in term time

:36:00. > :36:03.The Department for Education says quality, affordable childcare

:36:04. > :36:12.Joining me now is Megan Jarvie from the Family and Childcare Trust.

:36:13. > :36:17.We asked all councils what they thought the impact would be and they

:36:18. > :36:20.raised an uncertain picture of what will happen. Only a third were

:36:21. > :36:25.confident that they would have enough places. A third weren't sure

:36:26. > :36:28.about the quality of the places were reduced and 34% thought the

:36:29. > :36:33.financial sustainability of some settings could be impacted. What

:36:34. > :36:36.does the last bit mean? In the long-term some childcare providers

:36:37. > :36:39.might find it hard to balance their books and could go out of business

:36:40. > :36:45.if they don't fin a way of doing that. OK. How is it supposed to

:36:46. > :36:51.work? You've got a three-year-old, you go, oh my gosh, I've got 30

:36:52. > :36:55.hours of free childcare, I will get my child into the nursery up the

:36:56. > :36:59.road. You say sorry, demand outstrips the number of staff we've

:37:00. > :37:03.got. Is that what you're saying councils are telling you? What

:37:04. > :37:07.councils are doing is working with all childcare providers so that's

:37:08. > :37:12.council run ones and private ones. And they will pay any provider to

:37:13. > :37:15.provide the additional hours. Some childcare providers are doing it and

:37:16. > :37:19.will have plenty of places and others are struggling and saying

:37:20. > :37:22.more us, it doesn't make sense and they won't be offering the 30 hours.

:37:23. > :37:27.Because the Government aren't paying them enough money to provide the

:37:28. > :37:32.free places? Why does it not make sense? A-range of reasons. Some are

:37:33. > :37:35.saying, yes, actually we get more money by charging parents, it

:37:36. > :37:38.doesn't match our costs to what the Government are paying us. For

:37:39. > :37:41.others, it will be above what they are charging parents and it will

:37:42. > :37:45.work. It is a varied picture and that's why it is really important

:37:46. > :37:48.for local authorities to be working with childcare providers and why

:37:49. > :37:51.they are the experts. That's why we asked them about what they thought

:37:52. > :37:55.the impact would be. So they raised the concerns about what is going to

:37:56. > :37:59.happen and what is concerning is what could happen for disadvantaged

:38:00. > :38:03.kids. Children where their parents aren't working enough hours to get a

:38:04. > :38:09.30 hour childcare place will be entitled to 15 hours. And we know

:38:10. > :38:13.those places are really important to boost kids attainment and narrow the

:38:14. > :38:17.gap between disadvantaged kids and their peers, but councils are saying

:38:18. > :38:21.they could be put at risk. Half didn't know if the availability

:38:22. > :38:26.would be affected by the roll out of 30 hours. OK, so there is a lot of

:38:27. > :38:30.unknowns. What do we did? Wait until September and see happens? The

:38:31. > :38:35.Government are piloting this in some areas. We want them to monitor those

:38:36. > :38:40.pilot areas. Well, they will be. As well as the full roll out, but to

:38:41. > :38:42.look at what is happening for disadvantaged children and what's

:38:43. > :38:47.happening for the quality of care, not just are there enough places

:38:48. > :38:54.available, but looking at the wider market and ma what does it mean for

:38:55. > :38:58.kids and families. How do you define quality childcare in a nursery?

:38:59. > :39:01.A-range of different things. We asked parents about how do you

:39:02. > :39:06.define quality and they say you know when you walk in there, are the kids

:39:07. > :39:09.happy? Are the staff good? There is things around staff qualifications

:39:10. > :39:13.are important, what the setting is like, how long staff stay there,

:39:14. > :39:21.what are the ratios of staff to children? It is a nuanced picture

:39:22. > :39:25.and Ofsted measure it and there is and a range of ways. We need to keep

:39:26. > :39:28.measuring what the quality is like and if that's going up or down as

:39:29. > :39:35.the policy rolls out. The mother of a backpacker,

:39:36. > :39:38.who was stabbed to death in Australia, has criticised

:39:39. > :39:41.Donald Trump for calling 20-year-old Mia Ayliffe-Chung

:39:42. > :39:43.from Wirksworth was killed in a hostel last year along

:39:44. > :39:48.with a friend, Tom Jackson. The Trump administration

:39:49. > :39:50.included their deaths on a list of alleged terror attacks executed

:39:51. > :39:53.or inspired by so-callsed They released the list to back up

:39:54. > :40:02.the President's claim that the media Rosie Ayliffe, Mia's mother,

:40:03. > :40:06.has now written an open letter to President Trump,

:40:07. > :40:19.saying Australian police ruled We can talk to Rosie now. Thank you

:40:20. > :40:23.very much for talking to us. When you realised that your daughter's

:40:24. > :40:31.death was on this list, how did you react? Well, I was puzzled, I

:40:32. > :40:37.suppose because this had been ruled out very early in the investigation

:40:38. > :40:42.by the police in Queensland in collaboration with the French

:40:43. > :40:45.police. They worked together and they examined the case forensically

:40:46. > :40:48.and they came up with a conclusion that there was no link. So it seemed

:40:49. > :40:55.to me that White House officials should be able to do their research.

:40:56. > :41:02.And that has prompted you to write this open letter. Why? I suppose I

:41:03. > :41:08.wanted to put the record straight from the beginning it had been my

:41:09. > :41:12.concern that this shouldn't be reported in this way by the media.

:41:13. > :41:15.There were people in Australia who tried to make the same political

:41:16. > :41:21.point regarding immigration there and I just don't think it's fair

:41:22. > :41:26.that Mia's death should be used in that way. In terms of writing to

:41:27. > :41:35.Donald Trump, what have you said in that open letter? I've basically

:41:36. > :41:41.said that my experience as a travel writer have taken me to Muslim

:41:42. > :41:44.countries and I found nothing but hospitality, love, respect for

:41:45. > :41:49.others. My own personal experiences have always been good in Muslim

:41:50. > :41:54.countries and for that reason Mia travelled herself abroad in Muslim

:41:55. > :41:57.countries and she was also treated extremely well by friends of mine

:41:58. > :42:04.and by people we didn't know. She was welcomed with open arms as was

:42:05. > :42:08.I. I feel that there is a demonisation of travellers and of

:42:09. > :42:13.immigrants and migrant workers and actually I think although it is

:42:14. > :42:17.complicated the 88 days in Australia means that young people are

:42:18. > :42:21.discriminated against and exploited over there and Mia was part of that.

:42:22. > :42:25.Yes, there was a connection and Trump made that connection, he made

:42:26. > :42:32.a connection between Mia and the Muslim immigrants who are waiting at

:42:33. > :42:35.airports around America, but it's not the connection he wanted to

:42:36. > :42:45.make. What do you want from him? Trump? I would like to see him

:42:46. > :42:54.abdicate as president, but that's not going to happen. So I don't

:42:55. > :42:59.know. I think, I don't... I suppose, an admission of error would be good.

:43:00. > :43:03.Yes. Thank you very much for talking to us, Rosie. Thank you for your

:43:04. > :43:11.time. Thank you.

:43:12. > :43:16.A fierce critic of the Russian President Vladimir Putin has been

:43:17. > :43:19.rushed to hospital with organ failure, two years after he nearly

:43:20. > :43:24.Vladimir Kara-Murza, an opposition activist,

:43:25. > :43:26.has been diagnosed with acute intoxication by an

:43:27. > :43:30.His wife has told BBC News that she thinks he's been poisoned

:43:31. > :43:31.again like fellow activist Alexander Litvinenko

:43:32. > :43:41.He said that he felt his heart rate was very accelerated,

:43:42. > :43:49.And then he was brought to the hospital, and

:43:50. > :43:51.a few hours after that, his organs began shutting down

:43:52. > :44:06.Their official diagnosis is an acute intoxication

:44:07. > :44:13.What does that mean, as far as you understand it?

:44:14. > :44:23.Well, it seems like it is, because there are no

:44:24. > :44:33.We sent some samples to Israel and France,

:44:34. > :44:39.and to have his hair, blood and nails tested again.

:44:40. > :44:50.And we are hoping to find some answers.

:44:51. > :45:03.It would be very hard to suggest who exactly would be behind this,

:45:04. > :45:06.but we know that the situation in Russia is such nowadays that

:45:07. > :45:09.opposition leaders can be shot in front of the Kremlin,

:45:10. > :45:11.can be poisoned, can be thrown in jail.

:45:12. > :45:33.Anything can happen to people who choose to stand up to Putin.

:45:34. > :45:42.Even before he was poisoned for the first time, I was,

:45:43. > :45:45.because I knew what he was doing, what exactly his

:45:46. > :45:52.But he truly, deeply believes in what he does.

:45:53. > :45:56.He believes that he can make a change.

:45:57. > :45:59.He believes that by staying firm, by sticking to your

:46:00. > :46:16.You can get what you're fighting for.

:46:17. > :46:22.Thanked you for all your comments on our story about a mother whose two

:46:23. > :46:28.sons were interviewed by police after one of them told the teacher

:46:29. > :46:32.that they had a new toy gun at home. So sad when children are no longer

:46:33. > :46:37.able to be children. Greg says, I would remove my child

:46:38. > :46:40.from that school. That is what the mother did. She also told us her

:46:41. > :46:48.children are still trying to get over the deal. We are trying to help

:46:49. > :46:51.them move on. It will not assist them right now for them to know

:46:52. > :46:56.about the case and the publicity. We are trying as best we can as a

:46:57. > :47:01.family to move them on from this, but they are negative effects. From

:47:02. > :47:06.a day-to-day basis the boys both suffer nightmares, my youngster in

:47:07. > :47:10.particular who is only five, gets scared he will be taken away from

:47:11. > :47:15.his siblings. He wakes up in the night, he never did before, this

:47:16. > :47:20.incident has traumatised him. My eldest boy, the evening it happened,

:47:21. > :47:26.he was extremely traumatised. In fact, when we got home he had what I

:47:27. > :47:30.can only describe as an emotional meltdown, half an hour of crying and

:47:31. > :47:35.being upset and he threw himself at me and he said he thought the police

:47:36. > :47:40.were going to take him away. That was upsetting for him and us. He has

:47:41. > :47:47.quite serious issues with trusting his new school and his new teachers,

:47:48. > :47:54.which is not fair on them or us. You put them somewhere new? Yes, I moved

:47:55. > :47:58.them straightaway. Why do you believe the headteacher, who was the

:47:59. > :48:04.school's lead when it comes to safeguarding, widely believed they

:48:05. > :48:08.called the police? It is fear. It did not escape my attention that

:48:09. > :48:14.this happened, the date of the disclosure, was on the day of the

:48:15. > :48:19.Belgian bombings, and people are scared, people are terrified.

:48:20. > :48:24.Teachers have this duty to look out at children and look for signs of

:48:25. > :48:30.radicalisation and extremism. I know the teachers involved all had some

:48:31. > :48:34.very paltry Prevented training. But for that training they would not

:48:35. > :48:39.have been looking for this sort of aspect. One of the things the

:48:40. > :48:43.teacher said to me was that she had noticed a change in behaviour in my

:48:44. > :48:50.eldest son. He had been speaking Arabic in class and talking about

:48:51. > :48:56.going to Friday prayers with his dad. We are not Muslim and my child

:48:57. > :49:00.has never set foot in a mosque and certainly does not speak Arabic.

:49:01. > :49:07.From that point of view the school was ignorant. But even if there

:49:08. > :49:11.were, they should not have been this sort of suspicion raised about small

:49:12. > :49:17.children. It does not help them or assist them, it is not about their

:49:18. > :49:21.welfare. They are looking at small children as if they were grown-ups

:49:22. > :49:26.and criminalising them. Would this have happened if they had been

:49:27. > :49:32.white? No, absolutely not. The reason I can be so sure is toy guns

:49:33. > :49:38.are prolific in our society, whether you believe in them or not. Children

:49:39. > :49:44.will fashion toy guns out of pieces of toast, my boys did. These were

:49:45. > :49:49.the first toy guns I had ever bought them because they take up sticks in

:49:50. > :49:55.the garden, all boys do it. I know that children in his class, who were

:49:56. > :49:59.white, had huge amounts of toy guns. I also know there are parties which

:50:00. > :50:07.involve what they call nerve gun battles. Those things must have come

:50:08. > :50:12.up, the teacher must have had to hand out invites for parties. Those

:50:13. > :50:17.children have never been referred under Prevent or had the police

:50:18. > :50:22.called. A child talked about a gift, talks about a girl as a gift,

:50:23. > :50:26.teacher absorbs that information. They cannot be concerned because

:50:27. > :50:32.they do not mention anything until 24 hours later at which point the

:50:33. > :50:38.headteacher called the police. He does not have a chat with the child,

:50:39. > :50:45.but called the police. So it is racism? I think it was racial

:50:46. > :50:49.discrimination. Racism is a difficult time because people will

:50:50. > :50:56.shy away from saying something is racist. Everybody has a certain

:50:57. > :50:59.degree of racism, teachers, policemen, everyone in the front

:51:00. > :51:03.line, but it is knowing how to acknowledge it and deal with it.

:51:04. > :51:08.Instead of acknowledging they had these thoughts because my children

:51:09. > :51:13.were not white, the teachers put two and two together and made six. The

:51:14. > :51:19.local council have apologised and given new compensation. This was due

:51:20. > :51:23.to the school not following council procedures around safeguarding

:51:24. > :51:27.concerns. We accept the boys were discriminated against. Schools are

:51:28. > :51:34.encouraged to deal with incidents at a local level, meaning only the most

:51:35. > :51:38.serious are escalated. I have read the local authority guidance, and

:51:39. > :51:42.one of the things it says is if the school is not sure they should bring

:51:43. > :51:49.101, which is what the school did. It is not fair on the school to put

:51:50. > :51:54.the blame squarely on them. You can see the full interview on our

:51:55. > :51:58.programme page. We talked to the ma'am anonymously so we did not

:51:59. > :52:04.Madonna has been granted permission to adopt two more

:52:05. > :52:11.The singer, who had previously denied she was visiting the country

:52:12. > :52:14.with a view to adopting more children, was given permission

:52:15. > :52:16.by the Malawian high court on Tuesday to adopt

:52:17. > :52:18.the four-year-old twin girls called Stella and Esther.

:52:19. > :52:21.In the studio is Francesca Polini who adopted two babies from Mexico,

:52:22. > :52:23.and from Malawi we can speak to Charlie McCaulder,

:52:24. > :52:25.Director of Open Arms Malawi, a charity that helps orphaned

:52:26. > :52:28.and abandoned children by supplying them with the medical attention,

:52:29. > :52:38.And our reporter Chi Chi Izundu is here as well.

:52:39. > :52:45.Madonna is coming under further criticism for these latest

:52:46. > :52:48.adoptions. Indy, the government states you cannot adopt out of the

:52:49. > :52:53.country and there is a ban and people have accused Madonna of using

:52:54. > :53:00.her celebrity to overthrow the law. She has already got two children,

:53:01. > :53:06.David and mercy, and she has a charity in Malawi raising money. But

:53:07. > :53:12.it has gone ahead, that is happening, and she now has six

:53:13. > :53:17.children. It's children, two that she conceived herself, as well as

:53:18. > :53:22.four from Malawi. Francesca, welcome. I think your experience

:53:23. > :53:30.will be different from Donna's. You adopted babies from Mexico. What was

:53:31. > :53:33.the motivation? We wanted to adopt domestically, so I think you should

:53:34. > :53:41.try domestically first, it is not about picking up country. We were

:53:42. > :53:45.turned down from the UK because at the time the borough where we lived

:53:46. > :53:51.had a cap on the number of couples who could adopt white children.

:53:52. > :53:55.Paradoxically we were approved to adopt racially different children,

:53:56. > :54:01.but from a different country, but that was the initial motivation.

:54:02. > :54:07.What do you think of Madonna adopting two children from Malawi?

:54:08. > :54:13.We adopted once and went back to adopt again, so I can see why she

:54:14. > :54:18.has done it. Saying that, I cannot help thinking that there is

:54:19. > :54:20.something slightly wrong with circumnavigating the system when

:54:21. > :54:26.there is a system and it is therefore a reason. Particularly

:54:27. > :54:30.when children are older and they are integrated in their communities and

:54:31. > :54:35.societies and language etc. I can see why the ban is there because it

:54:36. > :54:43.is a lot better for children to remain in their countries. Charlie,

:54:44. > :54:51.you are from a charity. Do you think Madonna has circumvented the system?

:54:52. > :55:00.I am not sure. I would not want to be drawn into this particular case.

:55:01. > :55:03.OK, I have heard that there are rumours about how long you need to

:55:04. > :55:10.be in Malawi before you can adopt. She has got connections in Malawi,

:55:11. > :55:17.so I do not know whether it is fair. I am not even sure I have a view. We

:55:18. > :55:25.are playing a different ball game. We are running a charity where we

:55:26. > :55:32.provide care from birth and the government has a policy in Malawi of

:55:33. > :55:39.reintegrating. When a child reaches two, and they can walk, talk and eat

:55:40. > :55:46.solid food, it if they are fit and healthy, we work with the government

:55:47. > :55:50.to try and reintegrate that child. The child will be reintegrated

:55:51. > :55:57.normally into the family and very often into the village where the

:55:58. > :56:02.child's parents may have come from. Not all the children are orphans.

:56:03. > :56:05.Some may be from backgrounds were possibly a parent has a mental

:56:06. > :56:12.health problem or something like that. That is what we do and we have

:56:13. > :56:21.got 106 children at the moment. It does not take a social worker to

:56:22. > :56:25.look at arguments for and against an international adoption. You can say

:56:26. > :56:31.it is an opportunity for a child who might go to a high income economy

:56:32. > :56:36.and leave Malawi with its overstretched resources. There are

:56:37. > :56:42.arguments against. If a large number of children were to go, it is

:56:43. > :56:46.against Malawi's interests. Also children can becomes separated from

:56:47. > :56:53.their extended families and communities. It is possible to have

:56:54. > :57:00.implications for their identities when they get older. I say possible.

:57:01. > :57:09.I say how do you address those issues? They are very proud of being

:57:10. > :57:19.Mexican. Their childminder for a few years was speaking Spanish to them.

:57:20. > :57:24.Their godparents are the lawyers we used for the adoption so we have

:57:25. > :57:29.kept close connections to all of the friends we made when we lived there

:57:30. > :57:33.and we try and keep Mexico alive in our lifestyle without pushing it too

:57:34. > :57:41.much. You can isolate them as well, but it is important they grow up

:57:42. > :57:46.thinking about it. We have been back only once because we adopted 19

:57:47. > :57:52.years ago and then another three years later. We went back to them

:57:53. > :57:56.and they saw where they were from an MS people from the Institute where

:57:57. > :58:00.they were adopted from and we keep that very much alive and that is

:58:01. > :58:08.really important for children. For mine it is easier because they were

:58:09. > :58:12.five weeks old and two weeks old, so they did not grow up in that

:58:13. > :58:17.culture, but it is important for their identity. Very briefly, the

:58:18. > :58:24.cost and the bureaucracy in a few seconds? The cost, how long is a

:58:25. > :58:32.piece of string? It is more the cost of physically being there for a few

:58:33. > :58:34.months. It is insane. It is brief enough!