13/02/2017

:00:07. > :00:09.Hello it's Monday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,

:00:10. > :00:19.in for Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

:00:20. > :00:23.Chaos in one of the biggest prisons in the country has been revealed

:00:24. > :00:35.Move away from it or else I will use it on you. I would prefer it if you

:00:36. > :00:39.didn't. Can you move away from it? Lacey I can step up here.

:00:40. > :00:41.An undercover reporter discovered widespread drug use,

:00:42. > :00:43.a lack of control, door alarms that did not go off in one

:00:44. > :00:46.block and a hole in an internal security fence.

:00:47. > :00:47.We'll hear from prisoners and guards this morning.

:00:48. > :00:49.And if you've spent time in prison recently,

:00:50. > :00:52.we are really keen to hear your experiences this morning.

:00:53. > :00:55.Also on the programme, more division for the church over

:00:56. > :01:00.How damaging will the row be for the church?

:01:01. > :01:12.Good morning, I am Father Andrew Foreshaw-Cain, I'm happily married

:01:13. > :01:19.to my husband and I believe the report today is a steaming pile of

:01:20. > :01:24.waffle which will harm the church. And Gavin Ashenden, have spent years

:01:25. > :01:28.on the General Synod and the report invites us to take direction that

:01:29. > :01:30.the teaching of Jesus and the faithfulness of the Church does not

:01:31. > :01:37.allow us to go in. And Adele stole the show

:01:38. > :01:43.at the Grammys overnight - for an amazing George Michael

:01:44. > :01:45.cover....but it didn't I know it's live TV, I'm sorry,

:01:46. > :01:49.I need to start again, I'm sorry for swearing and I'm

:01:50. > :01:54.sorry for starting again. Welcome to the programme,

:01:55. > :02:13.we're live until 11. I'm Chloe Tilley and

:02:14. > :02:14.throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news

:02:15. > :02:17.and developing stories. A little later in the programme

:02:18. > :02:19.we'll hear from children of addicted parents -

:02:20. > :02:22.as a new report from the NSPCC says they receive a call every single

:02:23. > :02:25.hour from adults worried about drugs We'll talk about the impact it has

:02:26. > :02:29.on those young children. If you've got you own experience,

:02:30. > :02:32.do get in touch - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and if you text,

:02:33. > :02:34.you will be charged Widespread drug use,

:02:35. > :02:39.door alarms that didn't work and a hole in a perimeter fence

:02:40. > :02:42.- just some of the discoveries made by a BBC undercover

:02:43. > :02:44.reporter at a prison Panorama discovered evidence

:02:45. > :02:47.of major security failings during secret filming at HMP

:02:48. > :02:53.Northumberland which holds more than 1,000 men and is run

:02:54. > :02:56.by the firm Sodexo. Undercover in one

:02:57. > :03:02.of our biggest jails. For two months, BBC Panorama filmed

:03:03. > :03:06.the drugs feeding addiction inside. HMP Northumberland is a private jail

:03:07. > :03:15.run by the French company Sodexo On the undercover reporter's first

:03:16. > :03:37.day inside, 2.5 kilograms of Spice, an illegal high with a prison value

:03:38. > :03:41.of ?250,000 was found in two cells. Despite this, Panorama was told

:03:42. > :03:44.there was no lockdown, so the block The BBC secretly filmed

:03:45. > :03:55.inmates high on drugs. CCTV cameras recorded

:03:56. > :04:27.an inmate being stamped on. At one point, Panorama's

:04:28. > :04:28.undercover reporter During filming, the BBC discovered

:04:29. > :04:43.a serious security breach, Nearby, officers found

:04:44. > :04:57.wire-cutting tools and, later, It meant drugs could have been

:04:58. > :05:03.passed into the jail. The reporter asked

:05:04. > :05:21.the governor what went wrong. Sodexo, the company that runs

:05:22. > :05:25.the prison, said the safety of staff The Ministry of Justice said it

:05:26. > :05:32.would urgently investigate the BBC's footage and that the government

:05:33. > :05:51.is determined to reform our prisons. Much more on that when we speak to

:05:52. > :05:56.one former prisoner who says 85% of the people he was in prison with

:05:57. > :06:04.work on spies. Now a summary of the rest of the day's news. -- they were

:06:05. > :06:07.on spice. Britain's biggest supermarket Tesco

:06:08. > :06:09.says it's taking immediate action to check prices,

:06:10. > :06:11.after a BBC investigation revealed two thirds of deals

:06:12. > :06:14.on the shelves were out of date, A team from BBC Inside Out visited

:06:15. > :06:20.50 branches across England, and found multi-buy deals

:06:21. > :06:23.still being advertised days - and in some cases months

:06:24. > :06:24.after the deductions The Co-Op Bank has

:06:25. > :06:31.announced it's up for sale. The high street bank has over

:06:32. > :06:33.four million customers but almost collapsed in 2013 after a series

:06:34. > :06:37.of financial problems. Since then it's been run by private

:06:38. > :06:40.investment companies who say they've now made "considerable progress"

:06:41. > :06:44.in turning the business around. The body that approves church law,

:06:45. > :06:47.the General Synod of the Church Much of the debate is likely

:06:48. > :06:54.to centre on the clergy's response to a report on gay

:06:55. > :06:56.marriage, which upholds a traditional definition of marriage

:06:57. > :06:59.as being between a man and a woman. But 11 former bishops have accused

:07:00. > :07:02.the church of ignoring Nearly 200,000 people

:07:03. > :07:10.in Northern California are being evacuated from their homes

:07:11. > :07:16.after the tallest dam in America Officials feared the

:07:17. > :07:20.Oroville Dam could be about to collapse after a giant hole

:07:21. > :07:23.developed in the overflow channel. Crews using helicopters have

:07:24. > :07:26.dropped rocks to fill the gouge in the spillway,

:07:27. > :07:42.and the excess water this programme they were conned out

:07:43. > :07:48.of thousands of pounds by an organisation that said it could win

:07:49. > :07:52.in custody. This service is provided by Mackenzie Friends, not legally

:07:53. > :07:55.trained but providing support for those going to court, the company

:07:56. > :07:59.charged for their services and there are now calls for this to be

:08:00. > :08:05.regulated. We will have a special report on that just talking to

:08:06. > :08:09.families who have been affected just after 9:30am.

:08:10. > :08:12.At the Grammy's Adele has broken her own record,

:08:13. > :08:14.becoming the first person to take the top three awards

:08:15. > :08:18.The star was honoured at the awards in Los Angeles for her single Hello

:08:19. > :08:21.But the London-born singer apparently turned down

:08:22. > :08:25.the award for best album, saying Beyonce deserved it more.

:08:26. > :08:35.Adele won five prizes in all, including three of the top awards,

:08:36. > :08:38.Best Album, Song of the Year and record of the year.

:08:39. > :08:41.Sir Bradley Wiggins has pulled out of Channel 4's winter sports show

:08:42. > :08:44.Britain's most decorated Olympian suffered a small

:08:45. > :08:46.fracture while taking part in snow cross training.

:08:47. > :08:48.The eight-time Olympic medallist and Tour de France winner said

:08:49. > :08:56.he was "gutted" that the injury forced him out.

:08:57. > :08:59.Channel 4 said Sir Bradley had been keen to continue but wouldn't appear

:09:00. > :09:01.after the fourth show in the series, which has attracted

:09:02. > :09:03.criticism after a number of previous celebrities

:09:04. > :09:15.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

:09:16. > :09:20.Your views are welcome on gay marriage within the church. We will

:09:21. > :09:22.be talking to various interested parties.

:09:23. > :09:24.Do get in touch with us throughout the morning,

:09:25. > :09:27.use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

:09:28. > :09:32.And a football doping investigation has been conducted with some

:09:33. > :09:34.surprising findings, Will Perry joins us now, so Will,

:09:35. > :09:44.At least 39% of players in the English football league were not

:09:45. > :09:47.drugs tested for illegal doping, according to figures we have

:09:48. > :09:52.received, that is the Championship and League 1 and League 2, although

:09:53. > :09:57.not the Premier League. The body that carries out testing on behalf

:09:58. > :10:01.of the FA and also test the 50 Olympic, Paralympic and Commonwealth

:10:02. > :10:10.professional sports, they took thousands of samples from 1989

:10:11. > :10:16.players in the EFL. From 550 players to play in the Premier League, 799

:10:17. > :10:21.samples were taken, a massive difference which does not account

:10:22. > :10:24.for players being tested more than once, one player tested five times

:10:25. > :10:29.would mean five samples, for instance. So those figures relate to

:10:30. > :10:34.the English football league but it's not just them that have been

:10:35. > :10:40.questioned. No, figures show there is an even bigger problem in women's

:10:41. > :10:44.football with only 36 samples taken from 169 players in Women's Super

:10:45. > :10:50.League one, the top flight of domestic women's football, the

:10:51. > :10:54.Football Association say like any sport, it has prioritised and

:10:55. > :10:58.anti-doping programme at the elite end of it and they also say the

:10:59. > :11:03.researchers intelligence led, meaning any player that the FA

:11:04. > :11:08.thinks presents a problem will be targeted, last season we had the

:11:09. > :11:12.Brentford midfielder Alan Judge who was the only player tested on behalf

:11:13. > :11:16.of the FA to bridge these doping regulations and he was reprimanded

:11:17. > :11:21.after proving that the substance he had taken was from an asthma

:11:22. > :11:25.inhaler. Having said this, there are bigger issues in other European

:11:26. > :11:29.leagues, Spain, Germany, the Scottish FA last year announced that

:11:30. > :11:34.they had plans to tackle the issues and the English at a plan to double

:11:35. > :11:38.the number of tests conducted next season at a cost of almost ?2

:11:39. > :11:40.million. We'll have the headlines are you at our past nine. Thank you,

:11:41. > :11:45.we will speak to you then. Next this morning, should

:11:46. > :11:48.the Church of England stop insisting marriage has to be

:11:49. > :11:50.between a man and a woman? The issue is set to cause

:11:51. > :11:53.yet more divisions when the the General Synod -

:11:54. > :11:55.that's basically the governing body of the church, made up of bishops,

:11:56. > :11:58.clergy and lay members - At the moment gay people can't

:11:59. > :12:01.get married in a Church of England church -

:12:02. > :12:04.though they can get blessed in some. A report to be debated

:12:05. > :12:07.at the meeting on Wednesday will stick to the traditional

:12:08. > :12:08.definition of marriage In an unprecedented move,

:12:09. > :12:13.that's now been opposed by 11 former bishops who say the church

:12:14. > :12:16.is failing its LGBT members. Last month a House of Bishops report

:12:17. > :12:22.said the Church shouldn't change its opposition

:12:23. > :12:23.to same-sex marriage, tone and culture of welcome

:12:24. > :12:27.and support" for gay people. We can talk now to Andrew

:12:28. > :12:39.Foreshew-Cain who became Britain's first gay vicar to openly

:12:40. > :12:43.marry his partner in 2014. formerly Bishop of Swindon,

:12:44. > :12:56.who signed a letter at the weekend criticising the way the church

:12:57. > :13:00.represents gay people And Gavin Ashendon is former

:13:01. > :13:02.honorary chaplain to gay rights activist who now believes

:13:03. > :13:06.marriage should be And we will shortly be

:13:07. > :13:16.speaking to Susie Leafe, who is the Director of Reform

:13:17. > :13:18.an organisation that campaigns to uphold the original

:13:19. > :13:27.doctrines of the Church of England. Andrew, does the Church welcome LGBT

:13:28. > :13:31.members of the community? I don't think so. They say they do but in

:13:32. > :13:38.reality the Church of England is a very tough place for someone to be

:13:39. > :13:44.LGBT. Would you agree? I think we have moved a long way but not far

:13:45. > :13:49.enough. The criticism that we retired bishops have of this report

:13:50. > :13:53.from serving bishops, and we do not underestimate the difficult job they

:13:54. > :13:57.do holding the church together, around some difficult issues,

:13:58. > :14:03.nevertheless, we feel that this report does not represent the kind

:14:04. > :14:08.of direction that we were taking, and therefore understandably, a lot

:14:09. > :14:15.of gay and lesbian people in the church feel very disappointed.

:14:16. > :14:18.Before we get Gavin's point of view, do you think this is about the tone

:14:19. > :14:23.and the message that is sent out to gay and lesbian members of the

:14:24. > :14:29.community or is this about gay people being able to get married in

:14:30. > :14:33.church? The current bishops would say it is about tone and they would

:14:34. > :14:38.say they want to set a new tone. Actually I would say it should be

:14:39. > :14:43.about reality, which is how LGBT people are treated by the church and

:14:44. > :14:50.how our relationships are respected and recognised. It's also about

:14:51. > :14:55.recognising that the Church of England has a prayerful response to

:14:56. > :15:01.issues of human sexuality, and the bishops and this new report entirely

:15:02. > :15:05.failed to recognise that. The report is right that we need a change of

:15:06. > :15:09.tone but if you look for example at what else has happened this last

:15:10. > :15:11.weekend when the Archbishop of Canterbury said about child

:15:12. > :15:17.refugees, we don't just want sentiment, we want action. And the

:15:18. > :15:22.problem with this report is that it rightly calls for a change of tone,

:15:23. > :15:28.for a more welcoming, accepting attitude on behalf of the church but

:15:29. > :15:33.that is only going to be real and we will only touch the real reasons for

:15:34. > :15:38.homophobia if we need to see some action. I think for us retired

:15:39. > :15:44.bishops it may well be that any move a bad marriage is too far. I myself

:15:45. > :15:49.have struggled with that although I've now come to the conclusion that

:15:50. > :15:54.sacramental marriage would be strengthened rather than weakened by

:15:55. > :15:58.including same-sex partners. But nevertheless there are other things

:15:59. > :16:00.we could do. Other things that this report could have proposed for

:16:01. > :16:07.example the blessing of civil partnerships. That would have meant

:16:08. > :16:10.that we were not just talking about changing tone, we were really doing

:16:11. > :16:16.something about welcoming, accepting gay and lesbian people.

:16:17. > :16:20.Bretts bring in Gavin. What about the issue about a blessing of

:16:21. > :16:28.same-sex couples? Is that something you could see happening? The Church

:16:29. > :16:32.of England? Well, I would like it say Christianity is about

:16:33. > :16:36.indiscriminate love and this quality of love comes because of our

:16:37. > :16:40.relationship with the Holy Spirit. It is not produced by a committee's

:16:41. > :16:45.report even if it is done by bishops and my experience is that the

:16:46. > :16:49.chumpble has been overwhelingly loving and accepting to people who

:16:50. > :16:55.cross its doors. It is what it sets out to do. The problem with both gay

:16:56. > :16:59.marriage and also the blessing of gay relationships is that to be a

:17:00. > :17:03.Christian you're committed to follow the teaching of Jesus and the

:17:04. > :17:07.teaching of Jesus is marriage is between a man and a woman with the

:17:08. > :17:14.intention of having children. And the problem with the report is that

:17:15. > :17:18.whilst it keeps a conventional approach, traditional Christianity

:17:19. > :17:22.on the surface, in its legal advice at end, it is making arrangements

:17:23. > :17:28.for formal blessings to be prepared after civil services. So Bishop

:17:29. > :17:32.Michael was right, it is about the direction the report is take the

:17:33. > :17:36.church in and from the teaching of Jesus, that's a direction that we

:17:37. > :17:39.don't find ourselves able to take. I would challenge that the church

:17:40. > :17:44.has been entirely loving and accepting of gay and lesbian people.

:17:45. > :17:51.I have members of my congregation who are refugees from conservative

:17:52. > :17:55.churches like Gavin's who come to me after years of abuse and the

:17:56. > :18:02.theology that's held by the churches. I have regular contact

:18:03. > :18:08.with people who self-harm and there have been well reported suicides.

:18:09. > :18:14.They felt the only way out has been through suicide. There is a meeting

:18:15. > :18:18.at the General Synod of a church in Manchester who lost a 14-year-old

:18:19. > :18:23.young woman to suicide precisely because of teaching of the church.

:18:24. > :18:30.And the sense and the hurt that that person was left with. Andrew, I mean

:18:31. > :18:36.I understand that and the stories and the anecdotes that people are

:18:37. > :18:40.suffering... These aren't anecdotes. I get text messages every day from a

:18:41. > :18:44.young woman who is attending a conservative church in London who is

:18:45. > :18:49.being told that she is wrong and is going to go to hell and she

:18:50. > :18:53.self-harms every day. Sometimes so badly that she ends up in A

:18:54. > :18:59.because the cut is too deep. And there is a psychological report

:19:00. > :19:03.released in 2013 that says amazingly that gay people find themselves

:19:04. > :19:07.mentally better off, their mental health is better off in conservative

:19:08. > :19:13.churches. So we have two sets of evidence and the answer at the end

:19:14. > :19:17.is all we can do as Christians to love one another and put the Bible

:19:18. > :19:22.into practise and in that way we make our journey forward.

:19:23. > :19:27.I want to bring in Suzie who just joined us as well. I don't know how

:19:28. > :19:31.much Suzie has been able to hear of what we've said. Suzie, it is great

:19:32. > :19:39.to have you on the programme. We were just hearing from Andrew saying

:19:40. > :19:44.that many members of his congregation self-harm because they

:19:45. > :19:48.are lesbian or gay and feel they are not accepted in some extreme cases

:19:49. > :19:53.ending up in accident and emergency as a result. He's saying the church

:19:54. > :20:00.isn't welcoming enough to the LGBT community? I think that's a really

:20:01. > :20:05.difficult thing to hear and I feel sorry for those people. It is just

:20:06. > :20:10.not the experience of the lesbian and gay people that I know within

:20:11. > :20:14.our churches. Conservative churches. I think they are finding a real

:20:15. > :20:17.sense of love and acceptance, a place where they're discovering that

:20:18. > :20:23.God loves them and God wants the best for them and they're

:20:24. > :20:27.flourishing. And they are happy that same-sex marriage is not allowed in

:20:28. > :20:31.the Church of England? Well, I'm sure you've heard on the BBC over

:20:32. > :20:36.the last couple of weeks there have been people like Ed Shaw talking and

:20:37. > :20:41.I think their experience is very common. They're saying to live a

:20:42. > :20:47.life that is the same in many ways of Jesus Christ, a single life, in

:20:48. > :20:53.community, offers a great blessing. I wouldn't doubt that there are gay

:20:54. > :20:56.and lesbian people in your churches who are widely welcomed because they

:20:57. > :21:02.conform to the narrow set of views thaw want them to conform to. Those

:21:03. > :21:08.of us who find joy and love in our relationships are not welcome in

:21:09. > :21:13.your churches. I have been told I'm a false preacher and I'm going to

:21:14. > :21:17.hell by members of those churches. Conforming is an easy way of

:21:18. > :21:24.avoiding conflict and hurt and people like Ed Shaw represent a tiny

:21:25. > :21:27.minority of both the gay and lesbian community in the church and much

:21:28. > :21:32.more widely in society and what they are trying to do is using the

:21:33. > :21:36.language of conversion therapy to pretend that going gay and lesbian

:21:37. > :21:40.is a pathology and they are insisting that everybody must make

:21:41. > :21:44.the choices that they are free to make themselves to be celibate. Ed,

:21:45. > :21:50.if he is happy to be celibate, I'm happy for him, but his book talks

:21:51. > :21:55.about his despair and unhappiness and how he Fanta saousz about the

:21:56. > :22:01.lovely young man that he might build a relationship with, but can't

:22:02. > :22:05.because of the theology he holds. The majority of gay and lesbian find

:22:06. > :22:12.sources of blessing with their relationship with God as indeed I do

:22:13. > :22:18.with mine. I'm really sorry... Go ahead Suzie. We're listening. I've

:22:19. > :22:24.got various sounds coming around. I'm having to do this in the

:22:25. > :22:31.reception at BBC Plymouth. I think, from what I heard Andrew saying,

:22:32. > :22:36.he's trying to claim, I think, that a life should be a life that's

:22:37. > :22:40.hassle free and without cost... No, that's not true, Suzie at all

:22:41. > :22:44.because no relationship is ever, no marriage is ever hassle free without

:22:45. > :22:47.cost. I have been with my partner for 17 years and I promise like

:22:48. > :22:50.everybody in a long-term relationship there has been struggle

:22:51. > :22:54.within that relationship, but that relationship is nonetheless a

:22:55. > :22:59.relationship of love and plesing and support and encouragement as I'm

:23:00. > :23:03.sure so is yours. That's, in this country, you are free to have that

:23:04. > :23:08.relationship and I think that's a good thing. The question is, is

:23:09. > :23:13.whether or not that is a relationship which is in line with

:23:14. > :23:19.the teaching of Jesus Christ? What worries me about this debate is the

:23:20. > :23:26.church and the Gospel are coming across as very stayed and unmoving

:23:27. > :23:34.things and the church is a living organism. We are called to serve the

:23:35. > :23:38.good news of Jesus Christ. The doctrine has developed through the

:23:39. > :23:50.life of the Church. Sometimes we've got things terribly wrong like the

:23:51. > :23:55.inqisation. On marriage which we're discussing this morning, we made

:23:56. > :23:59.some very significant changes about divorce and welcoming divorced

:24:00. > :24:04.people into church and to have their second marriage in church. We

:24:05. > :24:10.continue, now, we welcome parents who are not married who bring their

:24:11. > :24:14.children to be baptised and now, facing the question of gay and

:24:15. > :24:21.lesbian people within the church, what we're called to do is to ask

:24:22. > :24:25.how can we express the good news of Jesus Christ which Gavin and Suzie

:24:26. > :24:30.have rightly emphasised as our central responsibility, how can we

:24:31. > :24:35.proclaim that, not just in tone, but in real ways so that they also are

:24:36. > :24:39.fully part of the church and are part of this loving, forgiving

:24:40. > :24:43.action of God? Lots of people are getting in touch.

:24:44. > :24:47.I would be keen to get you to respond to the messages. A text, "My

:24:48. > :24:52.daughter is getting married in April. Same-sex. They have to get

:24:53. > :24:55.married in the civic centre in Newcastle and the next day they're

:24:56. > :24:59.getting blessed in a church. It doesn't make any sense why they can

:25:00. > :25:04.be blessed, but not married." Another text, "I do not understand

:25:05. > :25:08.why gay Christians and priests think they should have more rights than

:25:09. > :25:13.the church? The taesmings of the church and the Bible don't support

:25:14. > :25:17.gay relationships just as it does not support fornication. You cannot

:25:18. > :25:24.change the principles of the Bible to suit your needs." I am a vicar

:25:25. > :25:32.ministering in Thailand. I am also gay. LGBT people should be treated

:25:33. > :25:36.equally not because it is the spirit of age, but it is central to the

:25:37. > :25:39.truth and love shown in Jesus." Another text, "Although I think

:25:40. > :25:42.getting married is good especially if you can do it in church, it is

:25:43. > :25:45.about people cherry-picking the Bible and the so-called word of God

:25:46. > :25:49.when it suits them. If you're not going to follow the teachings of the

:25:50. > :25:58.Bible, then it is not going to work properly." I would say, I mean, I do

:25:59. > :26:04.read the Bible every day and I would see myself as a faithful Bible

:26:05. > :26:08.reading Christian. The bishop's report which started this off fails

:26:09. > :26:13.to recognise that there is, within the Church of England, a significant

:26:14. > :26:20.diversity of thee logical approaches and scripture interpretations. So

:26:21. > :26:26.claiming there was a single way of reading Holy Script is wrong

:26:27. > :26:31.basically. Gavin. How is this going to be resolved? This conversation

:26:32. > :26:35.alone demonstrated the huge divisions within the Church of

:26:36. > :26:38.England? That's a good question and an important one. The Church of

:26:39. > :26:44.England has been very good, because it is very welcoming and it is

:26:45. > :26:48.enormous by broad at gathering people together in one group and it

:26:49. > :26:51.has done for a very long time. The problem as your e-mails and your

:26:52. > :26:57.Twitter feed have shown is we've reached a point where the two-ways

:26:58. > :27:01.of understanding our relationship as human beings are simply going in

:27:02. > :27:05.different directions and the problem we're facing at the moment is that

:27:06. > :27:09.even the inclusivity of the Church of England may not be broad enough

:27:10. > :27:11.to manage to keep the two directions together and unfortunately that's

:27:12. > :27:15.the experience of the church elsewhere. In America, for example,

:27:16. > :27:20.where the conversation is 20 or 30 ahead of where we are now,

:27:21. > :27:24.unfortunately, the Christian church separate the Anglican Church

:27:25. > :27:27.separated into two groups, each pursuing what they thought the truth

:27:28. > :27:33.was. Maybe that's what will have to happen here if we are to keep our

:27:34. > :27:39.integrity and then we can test what Christianity will allow people to

:27:40. > :27:42.flourish best. The same kind of things were said about the Ministry

:27:43. > :27:46.of Women in the church and we in the Church of England took such a long

:27:47. > :27:52.time to actually come to where we are now and where we are now is that

:27:53. > :27:57.we have so many wonderful women serving as priest and bishops in the

:27:58. > :28:02.Church of England, we haven't split. We haven't turned our back on the

:28:03. > :28:07.Bible. We've actually moved forward under the power of the Holy Spirit.

:28:08. > :28:13.We understand the Bible in different ways and we now have such a much

:28:14. > :28:17.better church because it is inclusive, because it has the

:28:18. > :28:20.diversity that women have brought and now let's see whether we could

:28:21. > :28:25.also have a little bit of courage and do the same about gay and

:28:26. > :28:29.lesbian people? We have had a text that's come in saying, "Why not form

:28:30. > :28:34.a splinter church that would accommodate their preferences as

:28:35. > :28:41.Gavin suggested? The Church of England is a splinter church from

:28:42. > :28:45.the Catholic Church." What we want is a recognition that there is a

:28:46. > :28:48.diversity of thee logical and pastoral approach to issues of

:28:49. > :28:51.sexuality and we want that to be honoured in the same way that other

:28:52. > :28:55.significant divisions within the church are honoured within the

:28:56. > :29:00.church. Ordination of women, divorce, other things too. We have

:29:01. > :29:04.enormous divergence of theology within the Church of England and one

:29:05. > :29:09.of our geniuses is to learn to live with that and it would be a great

:29:10. > :29:12.witness to the world if progressives and Conservatives within the Church

:29:13. > :29:14.of England were able to do so within the Church of England. Good

:29:15. > :29:17.disagreement is what the bishops were talking about three years ago

:29:18. > :29:21.and that would be a wonderful thing to see. A tweet from Rich saying,

:29:22. > :29:25."Unless the Church of England changes its attitude to LGBT people.

:29:26. > :29:30.It will die out. It is simple really." Thank you for coming in and

:29:31. > :29:36.talking to us today. Your experience is welcome. You can

:29:37. > :29:41.use the hashtag Victoria live throughout the programme.

:29:42. > :29:43.Conned trying to get her children back.

:29:44. > :29:46.This woman paid thousands to a man who said he could win

:29:47. > :29:54.More than a million children could be living with an alcoholic

:29:55. > :30:06.From the age of eight going to my dad's at the weekend I was

:30:07. > :30:11.effectively the carer. It was typical for my dad to pick me up

:30:12. > :30:19.from school, literally fall over because he was so drunk.

:30:20. > :30:34.We'll hear from some of the children on how it has affected them.

:30:35. > :30:37.A BBC investigation has found evidence of major security failings

:30:38. > :30:39.at a privately-run prison in the North East of England.

:30:40. > :30:41.A reporter from Panorama filmed undercover at the jail

:30:42. > :30:43.in Morpeth, discovered a number of issues, including

:30:44. > :30:47.Sodexo who run the prison says the safety of staff and inmates

:30:48. > :30:50.The Ministry of Justice says it will investigate the footage

:30:51. > :30:57.and the government is committed to reforming prisons.

:30:58. > :30:58.Britain's biggest supermarket, Tesco, has promised

:30:59. > :31:06.action after a BBC investigation revealed two-thirds of deals

:31:07. > :31:09.on the shelves were out of date, and didn't work at the checkout.

:31:10. > :31:12.Over three months a team from BBC Inside Out visited 50

:31:13. > :31:14.branches of Tesco across England and found multi-buy deals

:31:15. > :31:16.still being advertised days, weeks and in some cases months

:31:17. > :31:19.after the deductions were no longer valid at the till.

:31:20. > :31:21.The supermarket says it's working to make

:31:22. > :31:55.A man from Bury has been charged and did the sparrows serves

:31:56. > :31:58.offences act after a suspicious package was found at Manchester

:31:59. > :32:13.Airport. The body that approves church law,

:32:14. > :32:17.the General Synod of the Church of England, rates today. Much of the

:32:18. > :32:20.debate will centre on the clergy 's response to a report on gay marriage

:32:21. > :32:24.which upholds the traditional definition of marriage as being

:32:25. > :32:27.between a man and a woman. 11 former bishops have accused the Church of

:32:28. > :32:36.ignoring the views of gay Christians. One viewers says, the

:32:37. > :32:39.teaching is based on the Ten Commandments and while having

:32:40. > :32:43.sympathy for gay Christians it cannot allow them to Marin Cilic.

:32:44. > :32:48.Richard says, I am 62, was brought up in the Church of England, was a

:32:49. > :32:53.churchwarden until ten years ago, I am gay and right now despair of the

:32:54. > :32:57.church and I want nothing to do with it because of this message it keeps

:32:58. > :33:03.sending out. Keep sending in your messages. Let's get some sport.

:33:04. > :33:10.The headlines, Joe Root should be confirmed as England test captain

:33:11. > :33:15.today, he is believed to be the clear favourite after Alastair Cook

:33:16. > :33:20.resigned after leading the side. Official figures today show that 39%

:33:21. > :33:23.of players who played in the English football league last season were not

:33:24. > :33:30.drugs tested by the anti-doping organisation. The programme was

:33:31. > :33:34.specialised at the elite end. Claudio Ranieri says he may have

:33:35. > :33:38.been too loyal to his Leicester players, they are now just one point

:33:39. > :33:43.above the bottom three after losing to Swansea yesterday. In Scotland

:33:44. > :33:47.were beaten by France 22-16 in France, the tenth time in a row

:33:48. > :33:52.they've lost in Paris. England on the only unbeaten side after two

:33:53. > :34:01.matches. More about those stories at ten o'clock. See you then. Thank

:34:02. > :34:02.you. I was engrossed in some of your e-mails, I will read those in the

:34:03. > :34:04.next few minutes. This programme has spoken to parents

:34:05. > :34:07.who say they were conned out of thousands of pounds

:34:08. > :34:10.by an organization that had promised The Parents' Voice London advertised

:34:11. > :34:15.paid-for support for people going through the family courts,

:34:16. > :34:17.known as McKenzie Friends. There are now calls

:34:18. > :34:19.for this to be regulated. Our reporer James

:34:20. > :34:24.Melley has the story. I felt like I'd been

:34:25. > :34:32.conned significantly. I felt like my whole world

:34:33. > :34:34.came crashing around me. He promised her that he would

:34:35. > :34:37.get her children back. She was only a young mum,

:34:38. > :34:39.you know, she was devastated There are examples of people

:34:40. > :34:49.simply being ripped off. When families break up

:34:50. > :34:53.and there's a dispute over the custody of children,

:34:54. > :34:55.it can end up in places But because of changes in legal aid,

:34:56. > :35:03.it's now increasingly hard for families to get funding

:35:04. > :35:05.for those kinds of cases. When someone can't afford

:35:06. > :35:09.or doesn't want a solicitor, McKenzie Friends can help people

:35:10. > :35:12.representing themselves in court Anyone can be one, it doesn't

:35:13. > :35:18.require any legal training, but increasingly McKenzie Friends

:35:19. > :35:20.are demanding a fee The company The Parents Voice London

:35:21. > :35:27.did just that, offering McKenzie Friends services

:35:28. > :35:31.for those that paid. Last year, two of its directors,

:35:32. > :35:34.Claire Mann and David Bright, were jailed for perverting

:35:35. > :35:37.the course of justice in one case Now, several parents who paid them

:35:38. > :35:46.thousands of pounds in the hope of getting help to win access

:35:47. > :35:48.to their children are trying Rupinder Randhawa came

:35:49. > :35:52.across David Bright and The Parents Voice

:35:53. > :35:54.when she was fighting a decision Desperate for help, she paid them

:35:55. > :36:01.thousands of pounds. When you got in touch

:36:02. > :36:04.with David Bright in the first So I was not in a great space,

:36:05. > :36:24.but I was still willing to... Your lawyer had told

:36:25. > :36:28.you that there was very little What did David Bright tell

:36:29. > :36:32.you when you spoke to him? That there was hope,

:36:33. > :36:34.and there is something that he could definitely do,

:36:35. > :36:37.and he did cases like this. Did he tell you how

:36:38. > :36:39.successful he is? He told me that he'd

:36:40. > :36:42.never lost a case. I felt encouraged to know

:36:43. > :36:54.that he could possibly bring an opportunity where it is possible

:36:55. > :36:56.for me to have custody She says David Bright

:36:57. > :37:11.charged her ?480 a month and additional one-off fees

:37:12. > :37:13.including ?6,000 to publish But, despite this, Bright

:37:14. > :37:16.and The Parents Voice did How did you feel when you realised

:37:17. > :37:21.that David Bright and The Parents I felt like I'd been

:37:22. > :37:37.conned significantly. Like my whole world came

:37:38. > :37:44.crashing around me, because there was no hope

:37:45. > :37:47.in getting my children back, so... That just ruined everything,

:37:48. > :37:54.it's like a false promise. Somebody had promised to do

:37:55. > :37:57.something and they were not who they said they were,

:37:58. > :38:14.so it just ruined everything, any hope I had left in me,

:38:15. > :38:17.it just sucked every bit of life Quite often when parents

:38:18. > :38:20.separate, one moves away. Jenny Lewington is a

:38:21. > :38:22.McKenzie Friend, she worked with The Parents Voice but quit

:38:23. > :38:24.because she says she She was also concerned about

:38:25. > :38:27.David Bright's working practices. I'd gone to the hearing

:38:28. > :38:30.with a mother who was trying to appeal an adoption,

:38:31. > :38:32.and he'd submitted the wrong form And I rang him and said,

:38:33. > :38:41."Mum's submitted the wrong form." And I knew that he'd completed

:38:42. > :38:44.the forms and then sent them to the client for signing

:38:45. > :38:47.and sending to court, and he said, "Yes, I know I have,

:38:48. > :38:50.I did it to try and delay matters." Do you think that would

:38:51. > :38:52.have actually helped? This guy had promised this mother

:38:53. > :39:09.that he would get her children back. And they'd already been

:39:10. > :39:12.with the adoptive parents for some time, and I don't think

:39:13. > :39:14.she would have got them back. She'd had a barrister up

:39:15. > :39:17.to Bright got involved, and I think she approached Bright

:39:18. > :39:19.out of desperation to try and get her children back,

:39:20. > :39:22.and he said that he would What kind of impact did David Bright

:39:23. > :39:25.have on the families She just said that he'd promised her

:39:26. > :39:31.that he would get her children back. She was only a young mum,

:39:32. > :39:34.you know, she was devastated The Law Society, which represents

:39:35. > :39:37.solicitors, is calling for a ban on McKenzie Friends being able

:39:38. > :39:40.to claim costs in court cases. We think that this would

:39:41. > :39:52.help to really spell out that a McKenzie Friend is not a qualified

:39:53. > :39:55.lawyer, does not have the training and expertise that a qualified

:39:56. > :39:57.lawyer would have, and therefore should not be regarded as on a par

:39:58. > :40:00.with a qualified lawyer. One of our concerns about the rise

:40:01. > :40:03.in paid-for McKenzie Friends is that a lot of these people

:40:04. > :40:05.are effectively acting as lawyers and advertising

:40:06. > :40:07.themselves as lawyers, even though they do not have legal

:40:08. > :40:10.training and legal qualifications, and they do not have the duties

:40:11. > :40:13.to the court that a qualified If a lawyer were to mislead a court

:40:14. > :40:23.or even allow a court to be misled, that would be a disciplinary offence

:40:24. > :40:28.and they would be struck off. Have you heard of other cases

:40:29. > :40:31.where McKenzie Friends have provided poor service or have

:40:32. > :40:34.otherwise caused problems? There have been anecdotal

:40:35. > :40:38.examples of McKenzie Sometimes it's a case

:40:39. > :40:44.of well-meaning people who just don't have the understanding

:40:45. > :40:47.that they need to in order to be Sometimes it's that they work

:40:48. > :40:53.for an organisation that has a particular agenda,

:40:54. > :40:55.and they put the organisation's agenda ahead of the interests

:40:56. > :40:59.of the individual client. And sometimes there are examples

:41:00. > :41:02.of people simply being ripped off by McKenzie Friends charging quite

:41:03. > :41:05.significant sums, sometimes as much as lawyers would charge,

:41:06. > :41:09.but arguing that lawyers are expensive, you can afford us,

:41:10. > :41:11.therefore you should instruct us. I mean, you've got to watch him

:41:12. > :41:15.in action, he's brilliant. Stephen, whose real name we can't

:41:16. > :41:17.use for legal reasons, spent thousands of pounds

:41:18. > :41:21.with The Parents Voice. A friend suggested he get in touch

:41:22. > :41:24.with David Bright after his ex-wife took custody of their children

:41:25. > :41:26.after the break-up I went to see him in his

:41:27. > :41:31.Southgate office, and there He told me exactly what I wanted

:41:32. > :41:36.to hear, he asked me if I wanted custody,

:41:37. > :41:39.he asked me how much At the point where you

:41:40. > :41:43.approached David Bright, I went in thinking, "There's got

:41:44. > :41:49.to be no-one who can promise me the earth,

:41:50. > :41:51.no-one that's that good." There's obviously solicitors out

:41:52. > :41:53.there that are wonderful, but they cost tens and tens

:41:54. > :41:56.of thousands. Friends of mine have paid half

:41:57. > :42:00.a million in lawyers' fees just to get one inch from their ex-wife,

:42:01. > :42:04.so he came as a welcome surprise because I was told he wasn't that

:42:05. > :42:10.expensive in advance. He asked me for ?1,000

:42:11. > :42:13.in advance, then monthly ?500, then that would be it,

:42:14. > :42:18.there'd be no other charges. He'll send thousands

:42:19. > :42:24.of letters, if I want. He'll bombard the other side,

:42:25. > :42:27.he would win the case for me. He'll appoint a lawyer that

:42:28. > :42:30.would turn up at court At the time, I was broken,

:42:31. > :42:36.I was really in a low, Psychologically I was exhausted,

:42:37. > :42:39.I didn't know what to do. Stephen claims Bright took

:42:40. > :42:41.around ?12,000 from him by double-billing him,

:42:42. > :42:44.and for work he didn't do. He says since Bright's conviction

:42:45. > :42:48.he's been contacted by other people who feel their money was wrongly

:42:49. > :42:51.taken by The Parents Voice. People that are just

:42:52. > :43:06.so shocked, they've had What he does, he gets them

:43:07. > :43:13.all so close and he makes You know, a lot of these people have

:43:14. > :43:18.violent exes, horrible exes, and the children are always

:43:19. > :43:20.involved, so what he does, he manipulates the parents

:43:21. > :43:23.with the vision of the kids, Like Stephen and several other

:43:24. > :43:26.people, Rupinder Randhawa has won a County Court judgment

:43:27. > :43:28.against David Bright and The Parents Voice

:43:29. > :43:30.for more than ?10,000. She didn't win her children back,

:43:31. > :43:32.and resents the false I'm just looking forward

:43:33. > :43:42.to the future and moving on with my life, doing the things

:43:43. > :43:46.that I should have been doing in the year that I've wasted

:43:47. > :43:48.of doing absolutely nothing David Bright was released

:43:49. > :43:53.from prison last month. We asked him for an interview,

:43:54. > :43:55.but he said no. He told us he denies any wrongdoing,

:43:56. > :43:59.and that he and The Parents Voice had helped hundreds of people

:44:00. > :44:01.with their cases. In making this film,

:44:02. > :44:05.we've heard from several people that have had positive experiences

:44:06. > :44:08.with McKenzie Friends, but senior judges are considering changing

:44:09. > :44:11.the rules for how McKenzie Friends operate, including setting up a code

:44:12. > :44:13.of conduct so those using them in the future will know

:44:14. > :44:26.what to expect. We have had a tweet from Jason

:44:27. > :44:30.saying "He destroyed my life and deserved a longer sentence, family

:44:31. > :44:35.courts need reform as there are too many calls." Mark says, there are

:44:36. > :44:38.good and bad people in all walks of life, many McKenzie Friends

:44:39. > :44:44.fantastic and only focus on what is best for the children. Likewise some

:44:45. > :44:45.solicitors are only interested in the monetary rewards and others are

:44:46. > :44:48.genuine. After 10am we'll speak

:44:49. > :44:50.to a McKenzie Friend Really keen to hear your

:44:51. > :44:53.experience this morning. Coming up, the children

:44:54. > :44:56.of a terminally ill couple who died of cancer within days of each other

:44:57. > :44:58.have shared this moving photograph of their parents'

:44:59. > :45:01.last moments together. We'll speak to a family

:45:02. > :45:07.friend before 11am. It's thought more than

:45:08. > :45:09.a million children could be living with an alcoholic

:45:10. > :45:12.or drug-dependent parent. Every single hour the NSPCC receives

:45:13. > :45:15.a call from an adult who is concerned about alcohol

:45:16. > :45:17.or drugs being used around children. But is enough being

:45:18. > :45:20.done to help them? Earlier this month the Labour MP

:45:21. > :45:23.Jon Ashworth spoke in Parliament about his experience of growing up

:45:24. > :45:26.with an alcoholic father. He urged ministers to do more

:45:27. > :45:29.to stop children with similar His testimony was so powerful it

:45:30. > :45:35.brought the Health Minister, My parents divorced

:45:36. > :45:43.when I was about seven or eight. They divorced, to be frank

:45:44. > :45:46.and candid, because of the strain that my father's alcoholism

:45:47. > :45:52.placed on marriage. In the week, I would live

:45:53. > :45:57.with my mum and at weekends And my dad would spend

:45:58. > :46:01.the whole weekend drunk. In fact, from the age

:46:02. > :46:06.of eight or so, going to my dad's at the weekend,

:46:07. > :46:11.I was effectively the carer. It would be very typical for my dad

:46:12. > :46:14.to pick me up from school, literally fall over,

:46:15. > :46:16.because he was so drunk. I recall - because this

:46:17. > :46:19.wasn't the days of mobile phones and so on -

:46:20. > :46:22.going to the phone box to order It wasn't far to walk, to be fair,

:46:23. > :46:30.but we couldn't walk up Or I would go back to my dad's

:46:31. > :46:37.on Friday after school, open the fridge, as you do

:46:38. > :46:40.when you get home from school and you want to eat probably some

:46:41. > :46:45.chocolate biscuits, whatever. And the fridge being completely

:46:46. > :46:47.empty, apart from these huge big And it was my job as a ten-year-old,

:46:48. > :47:03.11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old, to go down to the shops

:47:04. > :47:07.to get the food in for the weekend And there were loads of occasions,

:47:08. > :47:16.or similar stories. Christmas, my dad wasn't

:47:17. > :47:33.bothered about Christmas. I was going, I remember going

:47:34. > :47:42.through them all. The shame. The embarrassment particularly as a

:47:43. > :47:49.teenager. The anger as well. But I always loved my dad and he always

:47:50. > :47:54.loved me. And we were lucky, he was never violent and never abusive.

:47:55. > :47:56.There are millions of children or hundreds of thousands of children

:47:57. > :48:07.who are not in that lucky situation. Great social change requires

:48:08. > :48:09.three things, I think. It requires long-term political

:48:10. > :48:11.will, it requires nonpartisan And I've heard all

:48:12. > :48:21.three of those today. And I hope that each member who has

:48:22. > :48:24.spoken here today will continue to work with me as we fight

:48:25. > :48:45.on to tackle this social injustice. That was the health Minister moved

:48:46. > :48:49.to tears by what Jon Ashworth had to say.

:48:50. > :48:52.And here to share their experiences of growing up with a parent

:48:53. > :48:54.who abused drugs and alcohol is 29-year-old Josh Connolly,

:48:55. > :48:59.whose dad was an alcoholic and died when he was nine.

:49:00. > :49:02.25-year-old Jade Bailey, whose father was addicted to drugs

:49:03. > :49:07.21-year-old Sarah, in Liverpool, whose father is an alcoholic.

:49:08. > :49:13.We're not using her surname to protect his identity.

:49:14. > :49:21.Thank you for talking to us today. I imagine this is really difficult.

:49:22. > :49:28.Josh, your dad died when you were nine. What are your memories of your

:49:29. > :49:33.childhood? To be honest because I guess because of how traumatic a lot

:49:34. > :49:37.of it was. It's difficult for me to recall like proper sort of visual

:49:38. > :49:43.memories of the things that went on. I tend to only really remember a lot

:49:44. > :49:50.of the bad things. And also the feelings. That's what stayed with me

:49:51. > :49:53.all my life and that's still tan jable today the way that my dad's

:49:54. > :49:57.drinking and everything that comes with that made me feel. So what was

:49:58. > :50:01.normal for you? Give us a sense of what a normal day would be like

:50:02. > :50:05.around your dad. My dad was a chaotic alcoholic. So with my dad

:50:06. > :50:11.you never knew what he was going to get from one day to the next. I will

:50:12. > :50:16.give you an example. It was a heatwave one summer and we had gone

:50:17. > :50:21.to a park and it was jam-packed full of people and my dad was drinking

:50:22. > :50:26.from cans and was visibly drunk and it was midday and he was walking

:50:27. > :50:29.along urinating as he walked and I can remember like a six or

:50:30. > :50:33.seven-year-old boy walking five or ten yards in front of him, but

:50:34. > :50:39.feeling a deep sense of shame, but also guilt that I couldn't stand

:50:40. > :50:44.next to my dad in alliance and to protect my dad and then anger, anger

:50:45. > :50:48.at everybody looking and the shame that it was making me feel, but the

:50:49. > :50:54.anger was never directed towards my dad in my case, I directed it

:50:55. > :50:59.outwards. So I grew up with quite a strong sort of dislike to the rest

:51:00. > :51:03.of the world really. Jade, your mum and dad split up when

:51:04. > :51:07.you were quite little, didn't they? Yes. I know you saw your dad at

:51:08. > :51:12.weekends, but from the age of six he used to take drugs around you? Well,

:51:13. > :51:17.it's probably from the age I don't even remember. Really. My mum never

:51:18. > :51:21.knew. When I used to go there on the weekends, him and his friends, it

:51:22. > :51:26.was a little flat and him and his friends used to take drugs around me

:51:27. > :51:30.and call it their medicine and I knew, I knew, it was never right and

:51:31. > :51:33.it was never a medicine. I remember them going into the bathroom and I

:51:34. > :51:37.can picture it now going into the bathroom and doing it and coming out

:51:38. > :51:43.and them all being off their face and I would just go upstairs to the

:51:44. > :51:49.hairdresser's which atamped to the flat. My dad was a DJ and I would

:51:50. > :51:54.listen to the DJ music that he had. What sort of drugs was he talking?

:51:55. > :51:59.He started on the basics. Well, I say the basics, but so you've got

:52:00. > :52:05.weed and ecstasy and things like that and then he went on to heroin.

:52:06. > :52:13.When he went on to heroin I was about ten years old. And he was a

:52:14. > :52:18.mess. I mean our fun time on a weekend, and I hate to admit it, our

:52:19. > :52:22.fun time at the weekend was going to the skip and trying to find toys. I

:52:23. > :52:29.thought it was amazing. My dad was always my hero and if anything, he

:52:30. > :52:38.always will be because he made me how I am now so after I eventually

:52:39. > :52:42.told my mum, my dad takes this medicine with his friends she knew

:52:43. > :52:46.what was going and didn't stop contact, I could always speak to him

:52:47. > :52:49.if I wanted to, but it was sparse on his part. I always kind of had to

:52:50. > :52:56.make the effort, but I didn't spend time at his house anymore. What does

:52:57. > :52:59.it do to you as a child so young six or younger, seeing your dad doing

:53:00. > :53:06.that and understanding that it's not right? The reason why I begun to

:53:07. > :53:10.speak out about it is because I've never had one answer made by him. I

:53:11. > :53:15.never had that question answered by him and it is why was I not enough

:53:16. > :53:21.to make you stop? Why as a child do you not love me enough to stop and

:53:22. > :53:25.to be my dad? Because he knew how much I adored him and I knew he

:53:26. > :53:29.adored me. I knew that I was the only thing that he cared about in

:53:30. > :53:33.his life apart from the drug. I knew I was everything to him and he was

:53:34. > :53:38.to me. Which is why it was so hard for my mum and she was incredible.

:53:39. > :53:44.They were only 16 when they had me. So she completely, we grew up

:53:45. > :53:48.together if anything and it's, it makes you feel very alone like

:53:49. > :53:53.you're not enough, and abandoned by them, but you love them so much that

:53:54. > :53:57.you just can't, you can't ever leave them no matter what they do, you

:53:58. > :54:00.know that they're sick. It's not that they, not that they're weak.

:54:01. > :54:06.Not that they're, he wasn't a bad man. He was just very, very sick.

:54:07. > :54:12.With the addiction and unfortunately that fled on to me, but it made me a

:54:13. > :54:17.better person today which is strange to say, but I'm antidrug. I speak

:54:18. > :54:23.out to a lot of younger people who are going through it and help them

:54:24. > :54:27.through the process as well and it's just, I'm a little less emotional

:54:28. > :54:33.now. I don't really have many emotions. I feel like I'm very numb

:54:34. > :54:37.from my younger years, but I'm a stronger person for it. As you're

:54:38. > :54:41.talking I can see that Josh is nodding away and I want to bring in

:54:42. > :54:45.Sarah as well. Sarah you're listening to Josh and to Jade. Do

:54:46. > :54:48.you see similarities in their stories with what you've been

:54:49. > :54:54.through? Yeah, definitely, especially Jade's. I agree with it

:54:55. > :54:59.and it makes you a stronger person and more braver and resill zant to

:55:00. > :55:06.life challenges. Your dad is an alcoholic. Explain what your

:55:07. > :55:10.childhood was like. Well, in my early years it was more happy

:55:11. > :55:16.memories of my dad because he brought me up so it kind of made it

:55:17. > :55:21.harder when he turned to alcohol because I couldn't understand why he

:55:22. > :55:26.turned to alcohol. And then it made me more hard tore walk away because

:55:27. > :55:32.I missed the old dad he was. So I would have to look after him when I

:55:33. > :55:38.came home from school and I kind of always wish, I wanted the old dad

:55:39. > :55:44.back, the one that he was when I was little. How hard was it for you to

:55:45. > :55:47.be collecting him from the pub after he was drinking or getting him out

:55:48. > :55:53.of bed to go to work when you're just a child? I found it quite

:55:54. > :55:58.embarrassing. So I think that's why I never told anyone. And it would

:55:59. > :56:03.always, sometimes he wouldn't come home from the pub or I would be

:56:04. > :56:06.waiting up all night for him to get home because I could never sleep

:56:07. > :56:10.unless I knew he was home safe and then I would always be tired getting

:56:11. > :56:13.up for school. So it was quite emotionally and mentally draining

:56:14. > :56:21.for a kid to have to go through that. You talked about the emotion

:56:22. > :56:26.of it and the embarrassment which is something that I have not really

:56:27. > :56:29.thought about. My dad, because obviously, I went to school in the

:56:30. > :56:36.area where he lived. I didn't live in the same area and he used to,

:56:37. > :56:40.when he was high on the drugs, he used to use my name against people.

:56:41. > :56:44.He would say, my daughter Jade will beat you up when you get to school.

:56:45. > :56:48.I used to have girls come up to me at school ready to fight saying your

:56:49. > :56:52.dad is going around telling everyone and they all knew he was a drug

:56:53. > :56:58.addict. They all knew what he was doing. So without me, my closest

:56:59. > :57:02.friends know about my situation, but they don't know in detail. It is

:57:03. > :57:07.only in the last couple of months that I've spoken out at all. So, if

:57:08. > :57:11.anything, he told people more than I did because he put me in that

:57:12. > :57:14.position. So when you've, when you're 13 years old and girls are

:57:15. > :57:19.coming up wanting to fight because your dad who you barely see is

:57:20. > :57:23.putting your name out there that you're going to attack them. I

:57:24. > :57:27.wouldn't attack anyone. It wasn't the greatest feeling. I was ashamed

:57:28. > :57:33.that he would do that to me. It broke my heart at the same time that

:57:34. > :57:40.he would put me in danger. Yet you say you love him. I want to bring in

:57:41. > :57:44.Jon Ashworth MP. We have had a tweet from Pamela saying this story

:57:45. > :57:50.brought me to tears. How brave is Jon for sharing this moving story.

:57:51. > :57:54.Jon, it must have been difficult for you to stand up in the Commons and

:57:55. > :57:59.talk about this. It was very difficult and it is more difficult

:58:00. > :58:05.listening to it because as I'm listening to it, there is huge part

:58:06. > :58:11.of me feeling like I betrayed my dad and I shouldn't have said what I

:58:12. > :58:14.said. It's very difficult. Part of me is regretting saying it. But

:58:15. > :58:18.another part of my thinks we have got to speak out because there is

:58:19. > :58:22.too many children who are suffering in silence because they've got a

:58:23. > :58:25.parent who abuses alcohol or drugs and it is something that we've not

:58:26. > :58:29.really talked about as a society before. We've not really put in

:58:30. > :58:33.place the measures to support them. When I listen back to the speech

:58:34. > :58:38.just now, there is part of me feeling very guilty about speaking

:58:39. > :58:41.out, there is another part of me thinking I have got a job with

:58:42. > :58:44.responsibility now and I want to do something with that job and if I can

:58:45. > :58:48.make a difference for children of alcoholics then at least I've done

:58:49. > :58:52.something important in life. Jon, if it helps you, Jade and Josh in the

:58:53. > :58:56.studio are nodding when you were talking about feeling that you'd let

:58:57. > :59:00.your dad down, betrayed him in some way, but of course, ut haven't and

:59:01. > :59:05.you've clearly succeeded in life. You have been successful. What

:59:06. > :59:10.impact did the way your dad behave have on you? Did you make you

:59:11. > :59:17.stronger? Well, I mean, who knows? I will leave that to the

:59:18. > :59:21.psychologists. You must have an idea of the way it impacted on you? It

:59:22. > :59:25.made me determined in life to do things. My dad was never violent. He

:59:26. > :59:28.was never abusive. If anything, the problem with my dad's drinking was,

:59:29. > :59:37.everybody liked him. Everybody thought he was funny, good company,

:59:38. > :59:42.you know, what a laugh, good old John Ash, nobody saw it as a

:59:43. > :59:46.problem, isn't he great fun when he had a drink? Yes, he was great fun,

:59:47. > :59:51.but I was the person who had to pick it all up or sort things out and it

:59:52. > :59:56.ebbed and flowed throughout my childhood years. Sometimes it was

:59:57. > :00:00.very bad. Sometimes it was manageable, but I suppose I think it

:00:01. > :00:06.made me determined. It made me want to change things in life. I was

:00:07. > :00:11.lucky. He was never violent, abusive, he was never horrible to

:00:12. > :00:16.people. He was a sort of a happy drunk if you like, but in some ways,

:00:17. > :00:18.that made him want to drink more because people liked him when he was

:00:19. > :00:34.drunk if you know what I mean? You said before that you would not

:00:35. > :00:39.take drugs, I wonder what it did to you, Sarah, what is your

:00:40. > :00:43.relationship to drink and drugs? I always feel nervous when I am around

:00:44. > :00:47.drunk people so I tend not to drink too much because it reminds me of

:00:48. > :00:53.looking after my dad and the embarrassment and shame and sadness

:00:54. > :00:57.so I try to stay away from it. For me it was slightly different to the

:00:58. > :01:00.others who have spoken, I went on to have troubles with alcohol myself. I

:01:01. > :01:05.think it's important to recognise the different roles children take on

:01:06. > :01:10.within the family, often children become the caregivers. There were

:01:11. > :01:14.three of us kids in our family and I became the mask and within the

:01:15. > :01:20.family, so I found my place in life by trying to make others happy, I

:01:21. > :01:24.always wanted to make sure my mum was OK so I kind of active the clown

:01:25. > :01:31.and that was where I found my place in life. -- acted the clown. It

:01:32. > :01:38.became a co-dependency thing. I wanted more than anything do not

:01:39. > :01:43.become an alcoholic. But for me when I was 12 or 13 and I found alcohol

:01:44. > :01:52.it became the perfect escape route, it really worked, to some degree, it

:01:53. > :01:58.gave me the escape that I needed. I was never really able to look after

:01:59. > :02:03.my dad or do anything like that. So I kind of felt lost in the world so

:02:04. > :02:08.at school I am acting in the clown and at home trying to be the best me

:02:09. > :02:14.so alcohol gave me an escape from that. Thank you so much for coming

:02:15. > :02:16.in, all of you. It is very, very hard to be so open so we really

:02:17. > :02:19.appreciate that. And by the way at last night's

:02:20. > :02:22.Baftas, the actor Casey Affleck spoke about his experience of having

:02:23. > :02:25.a parent who struggled with alcohol when he picked up his award

:02:26. > :02:28.for Best Actor for his role The reason that I act,

:02:29. > :02:36.it's because when I was a young kid, my mother would take me

:02:37. > :02:38.to the Al-Anon meetings And there would be lots of kids

:02:39. > :02:45.there and they would re-enact the person at their home

:02:46. > :02:52.who they were trying to understand. It was therapy, but it was

:02:53. > :02:54.acting, and it was... And acting has sort of been

:02:55. > :03:04.that for me ever since. More on the BAFTAs

:03:05. > :03:06.later in the programme. If you're affected by alcoholism

:03:07. > :03:09.or addiction, you can find a list of charaties which may be able

:03:10. > :03:23.to help on the BBC's Action Line. Now the weather with Carol. Today is

:03:24. > :03:29.windy in the West, especially the coasts of Wales and the south-west,

:03:30. > :03:34.severe gales, maybe some transport disruption. A little sunshine coming

:03:35. > :03:38.through across most of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, down the

:03:39. > :03:41.coast of Scotland and east coast of England we will keep the cloud and

:03:42. > :03:42.despite temperatures in double figures it will feel cold wherever

:03:43. > :03:50.you are. I'm Chloe Tilley, in for

:03:51. > :04:02.Victoria Derbyshire. The Ministry of Justice says it is

:04:03. > :04:07.investigating allegations of security failings that a privately

:04:08. > :04:10.run prison in north-eastern England as BBC undercover filming reveals a

:04:11. > :04:27.world of violence and drugs were the prisoners are in charge.

:04:28. > :04:34.In the next few minutes we will speak to a former prisoner who says

:04:35. > :04:40.85% of people in the prison he was then what on the drug spice.

:04:41. > :04:42.The children of a terminally ill couple who died of cancer

:04:43. > :04:45.within days of each other have shared this photograph of their

:04:46. > :04:48.We will speak to a family friend, later.

:04:49. > :04:51.And Adele cleans up the main awards at the Grammys and gets teary

:04:52. > :05:03.Winning this feels like coming full circle, I feel a bit of me has come

:05:04. > :05:05.back, I feel I cannot accept this award, for me, the Lemonade album

:05:06. > :05:18.was so monumental. A BBC investigation has found

:05:19. > :05:24.evidence of major security failings at a privately run prison

:05:25. > :05:26.in the North East of England. Panorama filmed undercover

:05:27. > :05:28.at the jail in Morpeth and discovered a number of problems,

:05:29. > :05:31.including inmates using drugs. Sodexo, who run the prison says

:05:32. > :05:34.the safety of staff and inmates The Ministry of Justice says it

:05:35. > :05:37.will investigate the footage and the government is committed

:05:38. > :05:48.to reforming prisons. I cannot react the way I want to

:05:49. > :06:07.because there is not back up there Britain's biggest supermarket,

:06:08. > :06:09.Tesco, has promised action after a BBC investigation

:06:10. > :06:12.revealed two-thirds of deals on the shelves were out of date,

:06:13. > :06:15.and didn't work at the checkout. Over three months, a team from BBC

:06:16. > :06:17.Inside Out visited 50 branches of Tesco across England

:06:18. > :06:20.and found multi-buy deals still being advertised days,

:06:21. > :06:23.weeks and in some cases months after the deductions were no

:06:24. > :06:25.longer valid at the till. The supermarket says

:06:26. > :06:27.it's working to make A man from Bury in Greater

:06:28. > :06:36.Manchester has been charged with an offence under

:06:37. > :06:38.the Explosive Substances Act aftera suspicious package was found

:06:39. > :06:40.at an airport. 43-year-old Nadeem Muhammed

:06:41. > :06:42.is accused of making It follows the discovery

:06:43. > :06:48.of a suspicious package The body that approves church law,

:06:49. > :06:55.the General Synod of the Church Much of the debate is likely

:06:56. > :06:59.to centre on the clergy's response to a report on gay marriage,

:07:00. > :07:03.which upholds a traditional definition of marriage

:07:04. > :07:08.as being between a man and a woman. A group of retired bishops have

:07:09. > :07:13.written an open letter, accusing the Church of ignoring

:07:14. > :07:16.the views of gay Christians. Parents have told this programme

:07:17. > :07:18.they were conned out of thousands of pounds by an organisation that

:07:19. > :07:21.claimed it could win The Parents' Voice London

:07:22. > :07:27.is a service that provided Mckenzie Friends are

:07:28. > :07:32.people who generally but provide support for those

:07:33. > :07:36.going through the family courts. The company charged

:07:37. > :07:37.for their services. There are now calls

:07:38. > :07:48.for this to be regulated. Firefighters in Australia

:07:49. > :07:50.are still battling around 100 Several homes and trees

:07:51. > :07:53.have been destroyed, but so far there are no reports

:07:54. > :07:55.of any casualties. Australia has been experiencing

:07:56. > :07:58.a record heatwave with temperatures as high as 47 degrees -

:07:59. > :08:01.forecasters are warning conditions could become dangerous again

:08:02. > :08:04.by the end of the week. Hollywood musical La La Land

:08:05. > :08:08.dominated this year's Baftas The film won five trophies in all,

:08:09. > :08:16.including best film and best actress There were also awards for the film

:08:17. > :08:20.Lion, including best supporting Ken Loach's I, Daniel Blake

:08:21. > :08:29.was named outstanding British film. Casey Affleck was named best actor

:08:30. > :08:32.for Manchester by the Sea, and Viola Davis won best supporting

:08:33. > :08:42.actress prize for Fences. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:08:43. > :08:55.News - more at 10.30. Joe Root is expected to be named

:08:56. > :08:58.England's test captain today, the Yorkshire batsman would succeed

:08:59. > :09:05.Alastair Cook, was captain for more than four years. Freddie Flintoff

:09:06. > :09:09.says Root is the obvious choice. You have to say Joe Root is probably the

:09:10. > :09:12.only candidate, the way he plays and the way he goes about his business

:09:13. > :09:17.you would imagine will lead itself to being a great captain. Look at

:09:18. > :09:22.Virat Kohli for India. Joe Root is in the same class as a player and a

:09:23. > :09:31.similar person so he would get my backing every time. Official figures

:09:32. > :09:37.show that 39% of players who played in the English football league last

:09:38. > :09:41.season were not officially tested for doping. Samples were taken from

:09:42. > :09:47.players appearing in the league in the last season, the Football

:09:48. > :09:50.Association say they have prioritised the anti-doping

:09:51. > :09:56.programme at the elite end. Claudio Ranieri says he may need to change

:09:57. > :09:59.things at Leicester, the Premier League champions facing relegation

:10:00. > :10:07.battle following their defeat to Swansea. This volley gave the home

:10:08. > :10:12.side the lead. Just before half-time Swansea added a second. And this win

:10:13. > :10:17.the for Swansea moves them up to 15th in the table but it is a fifth

:10:18. > :10:21.defeat in a row for Leicester. After the match Claudio Ranieri was asked

:10:22. > :10:26.if he had been too loyal to his title winning players. Could be. Of

:10:27. > :10:32.course, it is difficult, when you achieve something so good, you want

:10:33. > :10:36.to give them one chance, two chances, three chances, maybe now is

:10:37. > :10:41.too much. Chelsea ten points clear at the top of the Premier League but

:10:42. > :10:44.only managed a draw at Burnley. It took just seven minutes for Chelsea

:10:45. > :10:51.to take the lead, Pedro with the opener. But then look at there is a

:10:52. > :10:57.brilliant free kick from Burnley's new signing, Robbie Brady, levelling

:10:58. > :11:05.the game at 1-1. I don't know, it's not important for me. One more point

:11:06. > :11:14.in the table. It's the most important thing. One point, two

:11:15. > :11:17.points coming in the feature you can see this. Rangers into the last

:11:18. > :11:23.eight of the Scottish cup after coming from behind to beat Greenock

:11:24. > :11:26.Morton 2-1. Martyn Waghorn won and for Rangers in their first match

:11:27. > :11:32.after the departure of Mark Warburton, their manager, last week.

:11:33. > :11:37.And in the six Nations Scotland were narrowly beaten by France in Paris,

:11:38. > :11:42.their tenth successive defeat in the French capital. Scotland twice went

:11:43. > :11:49.ahead through tries from Stuart hog and this one from Tim Swinson. But

:11:50. > :11:55.five penalties from Lopez did the damage with France holding on to

:11:56. > :12:00.win, 22-16. England on the only unbeaten side in the tournament. The

:12:01. > :12:09.headlines at 1030. Chloe. Thanks, Will.

:12:10. > :12:11.Widespread drug use, a lack of control, door

:12:12. > :12:16.alarms that don't go off, a hole in an internal security

:12:17. > :12:20.fence, prisoners possibly sneaking out to collect drugs or other

:12:21. > :12:24.contraband thrown over the perimeter fence,

:12:25. > :12:26.inmates incapacitated by drugs, threatening staff....and in one

:12:27. > :12:28.particularly disturbing scene - a prison officer having convulsions

:12:29. > :12:31.on the floor after accidentally inhaling spice, a cheap and stronger

:12:32. > :12:37.That's what the BBC discovered when it carried out secret filming

:12:38. > :14:41.So does that reflect what goes on in jails across the country?

:14:42. > :14:45.We can speak now to James Bell, who has been in and out

:14:46. > :14:48.of prison for 26 years - he was last inside in April,

:14:49. > :14:51.and was addicted to Spice on his last two times in prison.

:14:52. > :14:52.James Parker is from the Rehabilitation for

:14:53. > :14:59.And David, who spent more than 20 years working as a prison officer

:15:00. > :15:01.and has seen first-hand what happens to people who take the drug.

:15:02. > :15:05.He doesn't want us to use his surname.

:15:06. > :15:13.Also we can speak to Bill, who has got in touch, he is a viewer who has

:15:14. > :15:17.been in and out of prison for most of his life and was lost inside

:15:18. > :15:22.prison just over three months ago. Thank you all for coming to talk to

:15:23. > :15:29.us. I want to speak to Bill first, if we can. You were last in prison

:15:30. > :15:32.three months ago. What was it like them, compared to the last time you

:15:33. > :15:40.were in prison which I understand was a number of years ago? I started

:15:41. > :15:44.prison in 1976 right up to 2006, I've spent 26 years of my life in

:15:45. > :15:49.most prisons in the country, I was in Strangeways and everything. I

:15:50. > :15:52.stayed out for ten years but I lapsed and I ended up back in

:15:53. > :16:03.Rochester prison. And it traumatised me.

:16:04. > :16:08.The staff were so overworked and under staffed and they don't control

:16:09. > :16:14.the prison. The prisoners control the prison. Spice is rife. Drones

:16:15. > :16:17.are the main cause of drugs coming into prisons and it is a very

:16:18. > :16:25.different environment than what it was in the 70s and 80s and 90s. It

:16:26. > :16:29.actually acts as a deterrent never to go back to prison. It is

:16:30. > :16:33.horrendous. There is a back of positive activities for the inmates

:16:34. > :16:38.to do due to staff shortages. There is a lack of therapy due to staff

:16:39. > :16:44.shortages. There is a lack of lock-in due to staff shortages. And

:16:45. > :16:49.I can't see any way for it changing unless the Government really pull

:16:50. > :16:55.their finger out, you know, and do something and reform the prisons. I

:16:56. > :17:01.can emphasise, I think it was James on there, I tried spice once and I'd

:17:02. > :17:04.never go near the stuff again. It is horrendous stuff. Bill explain to

:17:05. > :17:13.people who have heard of spice, but don't know what it does to you. What

:17:14. > :17:18.effect did it have on you? I smoked cannabis for 41 years and I gave it

:17:19. > :17:22.up two years ago of the but spice, they advertise it as an alternative

:17:23. > :17:31.to cannabis, but it is nothing like cannabis. I believe it is made from

:17:32. > :17:36.fish. I took three dregs and I thought I was going to have a heart

:17:37. > :17:41.attack. I started sweating and I felt really ill. I thought there was

:17:42. > :17:46.no way I'm doing that again. I tried it once. It was Christmas and I'd

:17:47. > :17:51.never do it again. I have seen people change from being positive,

:17:52. > :17:56.fit, healthy, good looking to like, you know, grey, white shells who

:17:57. > :18:00.become extremely violent if they haven't got it. I think it is like

:18:01. > :18:04.crack. I call it green crack because it is so addictive and a lot of

:18:05. > :18:08.prisoners are running around to get it. The reason they are getting it

:18:09. > :18:15.because there is nothing for them to do. Sometimes you're locked up for

:18:16. > :18:18.23 hours a day and it makes you angry and frustrated. I have seen

:18:19. > :18:22.some people, they have been on spice and they get involved in therapy

:18:23. > :18:28.things and they change. And they go to work and they change. But because

:18:29. > :18:33.of the under staffing and I think, no, listen, years ago, I fought

:18:34. > :18:37.prison officers, it was us and them, but now I sympathize with the prison

:18:38. > :18:43.officers because they're losing control. Nobody above them is

:18:44. > :18:47.listening and I feel sorry for them and I've noticed while I was in

:18:48. > :18:50.Rochester there is a lot of young prison officers starting, but within

:18:51. > :18:55.three months they'd leave because they couldn't cope with the job.

:18:56. > :19:02.They would come in thinking they were going to do some good and help

:19:03. > :19:07.prisoners reform. I want to bring in James. You mentioned James Bell and

:19:08. > :19:11.he was talking about you used spice. Can you identify with what Bill was

:19:12. > :19:15.saying, the effect it has on you? Totally. I think Bill hit the nail

:19:16. > :19:19.on the head just how prison has changed over the years. I remember

:19:20. > :19:24.in the 90s it was different. There was still a drug problem, it is just

:19:25. > :19:29.that things have got more chaotic and the drugs have changed. Again,

:19:30. > :19:33.staff shortages. You know, all these elements are just creating more

:19:34. > :19:41.problems. For me personally, my experience of spice was to pass the

:19:42. > :19:47.time, you know, because I battled addiction for 25 years that was all

:19:48. > :19:51.I knew, drugs. And prison to me was just an occupational hazard really

:19:52. > :19:57.and that was a way of making money in prison, you know, using drugs,

:19:58. > :20:00.using spice, selling spice, and I think that's the mentality now of

:20:01. > :20:05.the prison system where people who are in prison and for the first

:20:06. > :20:10.time, you know, I have been clean now for under a year. So, but again,

:20:11. > :20:15.it was the staff shortages because I wanted help. I went into prison the

:20:16. > :20:21.last time and it was like wow, this is chaos. So halfs it like? Give us

:20:22. > :20:26.an idea of an average day on your wing in prison? Average day. Pretty

:20:27. > :20:30.mundane really. You're up for breakfast. If you're going to

:20:31. > :20:36.education, again, which is one day and I have done it that many times

:20:37. > :20:39.over the years, I'd stop listening or people just weren't participating

:20:40. > :20:45.in the education and it was basic so it became bored. If I was let out my

:20:46. > :20:49.cell, if not, I would be banged up for 23 hours a day just watching TV

:20:50. > :20:56.so I wanted something to talk me away from that. It is that escapism?

:20:57. > :21:00.For me, it was. David was a prison officer for 24 years and left over a

:21:01. > :21:06.year ago. What Bill and James are telling us is effectively prisoners

:21:07. > :21:09.are running prisons. There are not enough prison officers there and it

:21:10. > :21:17.is out of control. Do colleagues agree with that? Absolutely, yes,

:21:18. > :21:21.100%. I started 24 years ago and we would have four members of staff on

:21:22. > :21:28.a landing. Now you're lucky if there is one. So, I speak to one of my

:21:29. > :21:34.friends and he's telling me they're unlocking the wing that I used to

:21:35. > :21:39.work on with four members of staff to unlock 200 prisoners. It's

:21:40. > :21:42.frightening. Some people will be watching thinking how on earth,

:21:43. > :21:47.James has already said, 85% of people he believes at the jail he

:21:48. > :21:54.was in, were on spice. How is that quantity getting into prison? It

:21:55. > :22:04.comes over the wall. It comes in through parcels. It comes in hidden,

:22:05. > :22:07.secreted in prisoners. And the prison officers know this, but are

:22:08. > :22:16.simply overwhelmed and can't do anything about it? The cuts in the

:22:17. > :22:22.staffing have changed the searching policies. They do get very good

:22:23. > :22:27.results with target searching. There is no random searching anymore. Or

:22:28. > :22:31.there wasn't when I was there. It is slowly, slowly being eroded and

:22:32. > :22:40.yeah, I agree with the two other guys. The prisoners are taking

:22:41. > :22:44.control of the prisons. James, I want to bring you in. Is

:22:45. > :22:50.this simply about numbers of prison officers? We've got a former prison

:22:51. > :22:52.officer there and we have heard from two former inmates saying this is

:22:53. > :22:56.about numbers. Do you think it is about numbers or is it more than

:22:57. > :23:00.that? Lack of numbers, as a charity that runs drug and alcohol treatment

:23:01. > :23:03.services we can't have our services properly enabled so for instance the

:23:04. > :23:07.experience that James had, even if he was in a prison that offered a

:23:08. > :23:14.treatment programme there isn't the officers there to unlock everybody

:23:15. > :23:19.so they can participate in the rehabilitation side of prison. Lots

:23:20. > :23:23.of prisoners look for help. If we haven't got the resources there to

:23:24. > :23:29.enable the services, the security, the safety that's there, then as a

:23:30. > :23:33.provider of those services you just get incredibly frustrated and you

:23:34. > :23:36.feel the frustration for the people that you're commissioned to help. We

:23:37. > :23:39.are commissioned to help people like James when he was in prison and I

:23:40. > :23:43.think that's where the whole system needs to review what are we trying

:23:44. > :23:47.to do with prisons the moment? Are we actually looking at what bill

:23:48. > :23:58.tation and rehabilitation so people can change their lives which is our

:23:59. > :24:05.whole focus. Some prisoners in their education if you like, the way to be

:24:06. > :24:10.rehabilitated was to colour this Pepa Pig. Is that unusual? No. Not

:24:11. > :24:15.at all. Or playing cards. That's what we did because again, the staff

:24:16. > :24:21.shortages and I think you go through it that many times. Prison is like a

:24:22. > :24:26.revolving door for a lot of prisoners. It is the same like

:24:27. > :24:29.programme all the time of education. There needs to be rehabilitation and

:24:30. > :24:34.recovery wings and the support really, but it is all the different

:24:35. > :24:39.services in the system which are running from cuts and shortages so

:24:40. > :24:44.then we miss out. The ones who do want to change. I wanted to change.

:24:45. > :24:48.And have done so congratulationsment you turned your life around for the

:24:49. > :24:55.last year. Thank you so much all of you for coming in.

:24:56. > :24:58.You can see that Panorama in full tonight at 8.30pm on BBC One

:24:59. > :25:06.Adele stole the show at the Grammy's overnight -

:25:07. > :25:09.not just for her stunning performance and haul of awards -

:25:10. > :25:11.but also for having to stop her performance as she paid tribute

:25:12. > :25:15.It's the second time she's faced technical hitches whilst

:25:16. > :25:24.I know it's live TV, I'm sorry, I need to start again.

:25:25. > :25:28.I'm sorry for swearing and I'm sorry for starting again.

:25:29. > :25:37.I'm sorry, I can't mess this up for him.

:25:38. > :25:53.Her second attempt was, of course, flawless,

:25:54. > :25:55.and received a standing ovation from the audience

:25:56. > :26:01.at the Staples Centre in Los Angeles.

:26:02. > :26:04.She went on to win five - count them - five Grammys,

:26:05. > :26:07.but said Beyonce should have won album of the year over her.

:26:08. > :26:14.Producers Danger Mouse, Samuel Dickson...

:26:15. > :26:19.My artist of my life is Beyonce and this album, for

:26:20. > :26:22.me, the Lemonade album, was just so monumental.

:26:23. > :26:34.And the way that you may me and my friends feel,

:26:35. > :26:36.the way you make my black friends feel, is empowering,

:26:37. > :26:39.and you make them stand up for themselves and I love you.

:26:40. > :26:56.There is a curse that will be broken.

:26:57. > :27:03.My intention for the film and album was to create a body of work that

:27:04. > :27:06.would give a voice to our pain, our struggles, our darkness and our

:27:07. > :27:10.To confront issues that make us uncomfortable.

:27:11. > :27:16.I just want to thank President Agent Orange

:27:17. > :27:18.for perpetuating all of the evil that you have perpetuated

:27:19. > :27:23.Shout outs to every independent artist out there.

:27:24. > :27:25.Shout outs to Soundcloud for holding me down.

:27:26. > :27:32.That was Chicago's Chance the Rapper, who won three Grammys,

:27:33. > :27:45.By the way, this is Gnarls Barkley singer CeeLo Green, who you'll

:27:46. > :27:48.know for his song Crazy, as he arrived at the Grammys last

:27:49. > :27:51.night in a particularly crazy outfit - part Tin Man,

:27:52. > :28:06.And, of course, it was also the BATFAs last night.

:28:07. > :28:09.La La land, the Hollywood musical, was the big winner with five awards,

:28:10. > :28:11.including best film and best actress for Emma Stone.

:28:12. > :28:24.When I was a young kid, my mother would

:28:25. > :28:27.take me to the Al-Anon meetings for children of alcoholics

:28:28. > :28:36.and there would be lots of kids there and they would re-enact the

:28:37. > :28:38.person at their home who they were trying to understand.

:28:39. > :28:40.It was therapy, but it was acting, and it

:28:41. > :28:44.And acting has sort of been that the ever since.

:28:45. > :28:49.They can entertain, they can terrify, they can take us

:28:50. > :28:52.to worlds of the imagination, they can make us laugh and they can tell

:28:53. > :28:55.something about the real world we live in.

:28:56. > :28:59.August answers that question so brilliantly.

:29:00. > :29:05.Because what he did is he said that our

:29:06. > :29:15.that lives mattered as African Americans.

:29:16. > :29:17.And the BAFTA goes to Dev Patel for Lion.

:29:18. > :29:32.Please welcome to the stage Mel Brooks.

:29:33. > :29:36.I think BAFTA has made good choices to diet, especially me.

:29:37. > :29:39.I want to apologise to the Duke and the Duchess and Prince Philip

:29:40. > :30:01.There is the costume! I'm guessing it is a mask. I'm guessing he just

:30:02. > :30:06.wanted us to talk about it. I guess he has succeeded.

:30:07. > :30:09.Let's get some analysis of all of last night's celebrity

:30:10. > :30:11.news with Hollywood journalist Jeanne Wolf, who watched

:30:12. > :30:12.every second of last night's Grammy awards.

:30:13. > :30:17.Let's talk about Adele. I saw things on Twitter saying she had actually

:30:18. > :30:21.split her award in half. Is that true? It is true. Here is what

:30:22. > :30:26.happens. Once you win the award and we saw when she won that third award

:30:27. > :30:34.how flustered she was and how she almost wanted to give it over to

:30:35. > :30:38.Beyonce and she said she wished she hadn't won it. When you finish, you

:30:39. > :30:42.go backstage and they take photographs of you and you go to the

:30:43. > :30:48.press room and in the press room she appeared with her Grammy in two

:30:49. > :30:57.pieces saying, "This has to go to Beyonce. Album of the year was Lemon

:30:58. > :31:05.in aid." She just felt very funny about it. Of course, she accepted

:31:06. > :31:10.it. Five years ago, she won the five big awards at the Grammys and now,

:31:11. > :31:14.with the album 25, she has done it again.

:31:15. > :31:18.Do we know if Beyonce took the bit of the award that she snapped off?

:31:19. > :31:22.Well, I think we'll read all about that in the morning! I'm sure

:31:23. > :31:27.they'll meet up at parties if Beyonce in her condition feels like

:31:28. > :31:35.going dancing! But in any case, no Adele wanted to make a very public,

:31:36. > :31:38.very talked about gesture. Talking about Beyonce of course, in her

:31:39. > :31:43.condition, she is several months pregnant. She sat on a chair and it

:31:44. > :31:46.went back in one of he amazing performances. It was incredible.

:31:47. > :31:54.Tell us about the other big winners of the night.

:31:55. > :32:03.You will read the full list of winners, the once people are talking

:32:04. > :32:07.about our Dell and Beyonce. The others were evenly spread around and

:32:08. > :32:10.there was a lot of talk about how political the night would be and how

:32:11. > :32:16.the performances would be, there were tributes and performances,

:32:17. > :32:20.winners all over the place. There is a two our show before the show goes

:32:21. > :32:25.on air, so many awards are given out that night. Beyonce did win a couple

:32:26. > :32:31.of Grammy awards but when it came to the big ones, it was all Adele. You

:32:32. > :32:36.know that she started singing her tribute song to George Michael and

:32:37. > :32:41.felt that she was off key, said a swear word, apologised more than you

:32:42. > :32:46.would expect from an artist, and Sergei had to start again, and when

:32:47. > :32:55.she did she was amazing. So all the conversation today, everyone else is

:32:56. > :33:00.eclipsed, in their own minds, you will have heard the speech is, it

:33:01. > :33:09.takes a lot to stick to being a musician. Your pride in your music,

:33:10. > :33:17.and the music industry puts barriers at every point. And she is a mother,

:33:18. > :33:20.she does this all with a child. They you for speaking to us.

:33:21. > :33:23.Legendary director Ken Loach picked up the award for Best British film

:33:24. > :33:25.for I, Daniel Blake, about the UK's welfare system.

:33:26. > :33:27.You can see our exclusive interview with him last

:33:28. > :33:33.week on the programme page - bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:33:34. > :33:44.We are a little late again, but here is Ben with the news. Thank you. A

:33:45. > :33:49.BBC investigation has found major security failings at a privately run

:33:50. > :33:57.prison in north-east England, panorama found a number of problems

:33:58. > :34:01.including inmates using drugs, the organisation that runs the prison

:34:02. > :34:04.says safety is as priority. The Ministry of Justice is to

:34:05. > :34:08.investigate the footage and says the government is committed to reforming

:34:09. > :34:14.prisons. The Co-op bank is up for sale. It has over 4 million

:34:15. > :34:18.customers but almost collapsed in 2013 after financial problems. Since

:34:19. > :34:21.then it has been run by private investment companies who say they

:34:22. > :34:27.have now made considerable progress in turning the business around.

:34:28. > :34:31.Almost 200,000 people in Northern California are being evacuated from

:34:32. > :34:36.their homes after the tallest dam in the USA was weakened by heavy

:34:37. > :34:39.rainfall. Officials feared the Oroville dam could be about to

:34:40. > :34:44.collapse after a giant hole developed in the overflow channel.

:34:45. > :34:47.Crews using helicopters have dropped rocks to fill the hole in the

:34:48. > :34:56.spillway and the excess water has stopped flowing. That's the latest

:34:57. > :35:01.news. Join me for BBC Newsroom live at 11am. Now the sport with Will.

:35:02. > :35:07.Breaking news, it has been confirmed that Joe Root will be named

:35:08. > :35:09.England's test captain at 11am. The Yorkshire batsman will succeed

:35:10. > :35:13.Alastair Cook who resigned after more than four years in charge last

:35:14. > :35:18.week. A press conference will be held at Headingley on Wednesday.

:35:19. > :35:22.Official figures today show that 39% of players in the English football

:35:23. > :35:39.league last season were not drugs tested by UK anti-doping.

:35:40. > :35:43.The FA say it prioritised its anti-doping programme at the elite

:35:44. > :35:45.end. Claudio Ranieri says he may have been too loyal to his Leicester

:35:46. > :35:47.players with Ed Premier League title defence now a relegation battle,

:35:48. > :35:49.they one point above the bottom three after losing yesterday at

:35:50. > :35:52.Swansea. France beat Scotland 22-16 in the six Nations, the tenth time

:35:53. > :35:55.in a row Scotland have lost in Paris. England on the only unbeaten

:35:56. > :35:56.side in the tournament after two games. More news on the BBC News

:35:57. > :35:59.channel throughout the day. You. Parents have told this programme

:36:00. > :36:02.they were conned out of thousands of pounds by an organisation that

:36:03. > :36:05.claimed it could win The Parents' Voice London offered

:36:06. > :36:07.McKenzie Friend services. They're people who generally aren't

:36:08. > :36:10.legally trained and are meant to provide support for those

:36:11. > :36:12.going through the family courts. Two of the company's directors,

:36:13. > :36:15.David Bright and Claire Mann, were jailed last year for perverting

:36:16. > :36:28.the course of justice. There are now calls for regulations

:36:29. > :36:33.of McKenzie Friends. We can speak to Amanda MacPherson, herself a

:36:34. > :36:37.McKenzie Friend charges clients, and Derek Sweeting QC from the bar

:36:38. > :36:42.Council which represents barristers in England and Wales.

:36:43. > :36:52.People may not know who McKenzie Friends R. They are helping people

:36:53. > :36:56.who go through any court and represent themselves, they have

:36:57. > :36:59.chosen to do away with traditional representation, perhaps because of

:37:00. > :37:07.cost or perhaps because they choose to speak for themselves. And you do

:37:08. > :37:11.what, fill-in forms? Yes, McKenzie Friends will complete forms for

:37:12. > :37:15.parents, will take them through the process, often give them more

:37:16. > :37:20.support than a solicitor would, and can attend court with them and sit

:37:21. > :37:26.beside them, often not able to speak directly to the court or to the

:37:27. > :37:31.judge, but sometimes given permission to do that. What are you

:37:32. > :37:36.charging? Most of the advice I give, in fact all the advice I give is

:37:37. > :37:40.free. I don't charge a penny for advising throughout the case. But I

:37:41. > :37:47.do charge for its direct work. 45p an hour is my rate. And expenses

:37:48. > :37:52.like travel which is half my hourly rate. Which is a fraction of the

:37:53. > :37:58.cost that parents would incur through a solicitor or a barrister.

:37:59. > :38:02.Derek, what are your concerns with McKenzie Friends services? This is

:38:03. > :38:07.an area of operation caused by the withdrawal of legal aid and what you

:38:08. > :38:11.are getting is someone who people don't appreciate is not regulated,

:38:12. > :38:16.that means no training, no knowledge of the law, not insured, no redress

:38:17. > :38:20.if things go wrong you can't report them to the legal ombudsman, there

:38:21. > :38:24.is no regulator and you are not getting anyone who can stand up and

:38:25. > :38:29.speak for you in court. That is a misconception. And often, when they

:38:30. > :38:34.do charge, not all McKenzie Friends tube and when they do they sometimes

:38:35. > :38:39.charge similar amounts to what a barrister or solicitor would charge.

:38:40. > :38:46.Do you have any qualifications? I don't, I have none. Some people

:38:47. > :38:50.might be worried by that. Of course. They may well. Anyone looking for a

:38:51. > :38:55.McKenzie Friend should check out the person they want to use, ask them

:38:56. > :38:59.what their experience is, ask if they can speak to clients who have

:39:00. > :39:03.used them before and they should be absolutely confident that this

:39:04. > :39:08.person knows what they are doing. Should there be greater regulation?

:39:09. > :39:13.This is what we are waiting to hear. We're waiting to hear if there will

:39:14. > :39:20.be greater regulation. Myself, I wouldn't be averse to regulation. I

:39:21. > :39:25.think it should be done in close consultation with clients, people

:39:26. > :39:30.looking to use McKenzie Friends, and McKenzie Friends themselves and the

:39:31. > :39:35.judiciary. In my experience judges often welcome the assistance of a

:39:36. > :39:41.McKenzie Friend, especially in cases where both parties are not

:39:42. > :39:44.represented, they are on their own. What the judiciary also expressed

:39:45. > :39:50.their reservations about is whether there ought to be paid McKenzie

:39:51. > :39:54.Friends because this is one area where unscrupulous people like the

:39:55. > :39:58.ones we heard about, find it easy to operate because there is no

:39:59. > :40:03.supervision, there is no regulation. But then it helps people who don't

:40:04. > :40:08.have much money and can't afford enormous legal bills that sometimes

:40:09. > :40:11.people face. That is a misconception, of course there are

:40:12. > :40:15.McKenzie Friends who are competent and experienced like Amanda and they

:40:16. > :40:19.perform a good service for many people. But and is a misconception

:40:20. > :40:25.to say it is so expensive that many people can't afford a lawyer. You

:40:26. > :40:31.can instruct a barrister directly. The charges are often in the same

:40:32. > :40:37.sort of area you would pay for a paid McKenzie Friend. And it doesn't

:40:38. > :40:43.look convinced. That's not the case. I've had parents approach me to say

:40:44. > :40:46.that they have had solicitors wanting ?250 to read a letter and

:40:47. > :40:51.advise them on their next step. That's not affordable for many

:40:52. > :40:57.people. It isn't true, parents often face many years in court, especially

:40:58. > :41:01.when involved in protracted cases to spend time with their children and

:41:02. > :41:05.they face thousands upon thousands of pounds which adds insult to

:41:06. > :41:12.injury when they are not spending time with their children. These are

:41:13. > :41:17.comments coming in. Darren says he used a McKenzie Friend and they were

:41:18. > :41:19.brilliant. When e-mail says that they are experiencing the damage

:41:20. > :41:23.that McKenzie Friends can do and that it led to 18 months of hell for

:41:24. > :41:32.their family. Thank you both for coming in. You can watch our

:41:33. > :41:36.complete report on McKenzie Friends on our website.

:41:37. > :41:39.When you see an offer on display at the supermarket

:41:40. > :41:41.you expect to receive it when you get to the tills.

:41:42. > :41:44.But that wasn't happening - and now Tesco says it will check

:41:45. > :41:47.the prices of all items in every store after an investigation found

:41:48. > :41:49.customers were being short-changed on promotions.

:41:50. > :41:51.An undercover reporter for BBC Inside Out was overcharged

:41:52. > :41:53.on multi-buy offers at two-thirds of stores visited.

:41:54. > :41:56.cases multi-buy deals were still being advertised

:41:57. > :41:59.on the shelves months after they had expired.

:42:00. > :42:16.Most of us are, and Tesco knows it, too.

:42:17. > :42:17.That's why the shelves at Britain's biggest

:42:18. > :42:22.supermarket are full of special offers.

:42:23. > :42:27.And we all take it for granted that the

:42:28. > :42:31.price we see on the shelf is the price we will pay at the till,

:42:32. > :42:35.But what if things don't quite add up when you get home and

:42:36. > :42:38.I've just bought a few bits at Tesco and I'm

:42:39. > :42:40.sure these products were on special offer.

:42:41. > :42:45.But according to my receipt, I've paid full price.

:42:46. > :42:52.I've paid 60% more than the deal on the shelf.

:42:53. > :43:03.So does this happen more often than we think?

:43:04. > :43:07.Fergus Muirhead is a consumer journalist who says there's clearly

:43:08. > :43:09.something wrong in the way offers have been delivered.

:43:10. > :43:11.And Catherine Shuttleworth, is from Savvy Marketing, which works

:43:12. > :43:21.Welcome to you all. First, Fergus, are you surprised that this is

:43:22. > :43:25.happening? I think it has been happening for a long time. It's

:43:26. > :43:29.quite often the case, I think, that you don't get what you think you are

:43:30. > :43:33.getting in supermarkets. That is what it is so important to check

:43:34. > :43:37.your receipt when you leave to make sure you paid what you thought you

:43:38. > :43:41.were going to for the goods you bought. There is no question that

:43:42. > :43:47.supermarkets make mistakes. I'm surprised that a number of Tesco

:43:48. > :43:50.shops are making the mistake, it's a big number and I'm surprised it's

:43:51. > :43:55.happening so often that it is important that as consumers we check

:43:56. > :44:01.what we have bored when we are at the till, that the three for two or

:44:02. > :44:05.the two-for-one offers have been priced correctly. That's all well

:44:06. > :44:08.and good when I shop alone but when my children with me and they are

:44:09. > :44:13.arguing and they want some chocolate and they are being annoying, or you

:44:14. > :44:17.are an old person and you get confused by things why should it be

:44:18. > :44:22.the responsibility of the consumer to check their receipts? I'm not

:44:23. > :44:25.saying it is the consumer's responsibility, they have to check

:44:26. > :44:29.and they should make sure what they have spent is right although Tesco

:44:30. > :44:33.should take part of the blame, they've obviously got sloppy

:44:34. > :44:38.management going on and offers that should be taken off the shelves

:44:39. > :44:43.should be taken off because it is absolutely their responsibility and

:44:44. > :44:47.they need to do something about it. Guy, what tactics do we need to be

:44:48. > :44:53.aware of that supermarkets used to make us spend more? Not all offers

:44:54. > :44:58.are good, and multi-byte offers like three for two or something that

:44:59. > :45:02.would normally cost ?1 50 and two of them would cost ?2, if you were

:45:03. > :45:06.going to buy two of them anyway, a good deal but often they tempted to

:45:07. > :45:12.buy an extra product when you didn't want it. Take fresh produce, meat or

:45:13. > :45:15.cheese which could go off. If you buy a second or third item and it

:45:16. > :45:19.goes off because you don't have the time it's not a good deal. Much

:45:20. > :45:24.better offers are two for one because if you were going to buy

:45:25. > :45:28.something anyway it is free or a genuine reduction. Or if you buy

:45:29. > :45:35.something like toothpaste which has a shelf life it does not matter if

:45:36. > :45:36.you get an extra one. Are sometimes stocked up, the problem is where

:45:37. > :45:40.it's going to go off. Tesco told us, "We take great care

:45:41. > :45:44.to deliver clear and accurate price labels for our customers so they can

:45:45. > :45:46.make informed decisions We are disappointed that errors

:45:47. > :45:50.occurred and will be working with the stores involved

:45:51. > :45:58.to reinforce our responsibilities It is an issue of trust, isn't it,

:45:59. > :46:01.between massive stores, where it is hugely competitive now and the

:46:02. > :46:04.consumer? Absolutely and Tesco will be really frustrated by this and I

:46:05. > :46:07.would imagine that they are out checking the stores today as will be

:46:08. > :46:12.their competitors. This isn't just something that happens in Tesco, it

:46:13. > :46:15.will happen across the whole of the retail estate and that's important

:46:16. > :46:20.to remember is the scale and the size of the retailers. An average

:46:21. > :46:23.supermarket will have 60,000 individual lines and there will be

:46:24. > :46:27.1,000 price changes a week, prices will go up as well as down and

:46:28. > :46:30.promotions will finish and they are delivered by human beings and there

:46:31. > :46:35.is error in there and it is important the businesses are well

:46:36. > :46:39.run so customers can trust them. We believe that Tesco won't rip us off.

:46:40. > :46:42.75% of us trust Tesco and this will be a worry for them today and they

:46:43. > :46:46.will want to make sure they within the trust straight back.

:46:47. > :46:51.Thank you for coming in and talking to us.

:46:52. > :46:53.The full investigation can be seen in some English regions tonight

:46:54. > :47:00.on Inside Out at 7.30pm on BBC One, and on the BBC iPlayer.

:47:01. > :47:03.The children of a couple who died of cancer

:47:04. > :47:06.within days have released this heartbreaking photo to show

:47:07. > :47:15.the world how much they loved each other and were together to the end.

:47:16. > :47:17.Tens of thousands of people living below the tallest dam

:47:18. > :47:20.in the United States have left their homes because of fears

:47:21. > :47:22.that an emergency overflow channel could give way.

:47:23. > :47:24.Weeks of heavy rain and snow have left the Oroville dam

:47:25. > :47:26.in Northern California at almost full capacity.

:47:27. > :47:28.Engineers have been trying to release some of the water

:47:29. > :47:31.and plug a hole in the channel by dropping rocks from helicopters.

:47:32. > :47:33.A little earlier, authorities explained the nature

:47:34. > :47:41.Essentially what we're looking at is approximately a 30-foot wall

:47:42. > :47:53.of water that would be coming out of the lake.

:47:54. > :47:55.Not the lake drained, but a 30-foot wall of water.

:47:56. > :47:58.That is why we took the appropriate measures that we did.

:47:59. > :48:01.And implemented the evacuation process that we had going.

:48:02. > :48:04.In Butte County, what we're looking at is approximately 35,000 residents

:48:05. > :48:07.Yuba County, we're looking at 65,000 underneath an evacuation order.

:48:08. > :48:09.Yuba city, 76,000 under evacuation warning.

:48:10. > :48:17.We can speak to two people who had to leave their homes.

:48:18. > :48:19.Veronica Ruiv, who is one of the 70,000 people

:48:20. > :48:23.She's travelling in a convoy of five cars with her family,

:48:24. > :48:32.And to Xavier Goeas, who has been evacuated

:48:33. > :48:36.He's travelling with his father and other members of family.

:48:37. > :48:45.Veronica, are you still in your car? No, not anymore. I just made it to a

:48:46. > :48:52.hotel. So how, are you in a safe area right now? Yes, we are in

:48:53. > :48:55.Sacramento right now. Tell us how the authorities let you know you had

:48:56. > :49:02.to get out and how much time you had? I found out through Facebook

:49:03. > :49:06.through the Facebook channels of the emergency system of Yuba City and

:49:07. > :49:12.all of our surrounding friends from the Mary's vil area who are closer

:49:13. > :49:21.to the river which is, has been flooded before. So, they are at a

:49:22. > :49:30.much higher risk than Yuba, the Marysvil area. Were you worried? My

:49:31. > :49:36.brother was at the tennis courts by the river. It is at a park located

:49:37. > :49:42.next to, where the river runs through. I was worried about him. We

:49:43. > :49:47.got in our car and we took off the whole family and we went to him and

:49:48. > :49:52.we picked him up and I read the official report by the National

:49:53. > :49:57.Weather Service about how the damage to the dam could have a critical

:49:58. > :50:03.failure or something like that in less than 60 minutes and the streets

:50:04. > :50:07.filled with cars and they were just driving erratically and we just had

:50:08. > :50:12.to get out of there. A sense of panic. Veronica, was it the same as

:50:13. > :50:18.you were leaving with all the cars? Once I left the parkway of my home I

:50:19. > :50:22.realised that the situation was much more serious than what I expected.

:50:23. > :50:26.How much time did you have? We said your three daughters were in the

:50:27. > :50:31.car. It is difficult to get girls to do anything quickly. Did you have to

:50:32. > :50:36.pack bags quickly? They moved much faster than I did it time! Do you

:50:37. > :50:43.know what they packed? I spoke to a woman who had to leave her home

:50:44. > :50:48.because of wildfires and she told me her six-year-old daughter packed 12

:50:49. > :50:53.pairs of pyjamas and nothing else? My oldest daughter did not pack very

:50:54. > :50:59.much! My youngest packed all of her art stuff. I don't know why, but she

:51:00. > :51:03.is an artist and she likes to pack her crayons and my middle child says

:51:04. > :51:07.she didn't bring anything besides her iPhone! Maybe that's all she

:51:08. > :51:11.needs. Are you getting good communication about how long you

:51:12. > :51:18.have to stay away and whether the dam is likely to burst? I checked on

:51:19. > :51:22.Facebook and it's still mandatory to evacuate from Yuba City so they have

:51:23. > :51:30.not let us know when we're able to go back. What information are you

:51:31. > :51:36.getting? We haven't got, what I do know is when I left town that the

:51:37. > :51:42.evacuation order would be in effect until 4.15 tomorrow or today now on

:51:43. > :51:48.Monday. However, I watched the news report and he changed his language

:51:49. > :51:52.that the sheriff of the county, he chaunged it from 4.15pm to until

:51:53. > :51:56.further notice. So I mean that sort of hints to me that the situation

:51:57. > :52:04.could be getting worse or it might just remain where I can't go home

:52:05. > :52:09.until a longer time. Thank you both for joining us. Good

:52:10. > :52:11.luck. I hope you get back to your homes soon. Stay safe and thank you

:52:12. > :52:28.for talking to us. The channel was weakened by heavy

:52:29. > :52:30.rainfall. I don't know why we were talking about that. We have just

:52:31. > :52:35.spoken to those people. The children of a terminally ill

:52:36. > :52:38.couple who died of cancer within days of each other have

:52:39. > :52:40.shared this moving photograph of their parents'

:52:41. > :52:47.last moments together. Now it shows 57-year-old

:52:48. > :52:49.Mike Bennet and his 50-year-old wife Julie holding hands

:52:50. > :52:50.in a Merseyside hospice. Mr Bennet died last Monday and his

:52:51. > :52:57.wife died late Saturday night. We can speak to a friend of

:52:58. > :53:07.the family Heather Heaton Gallagher. Heather, it is a really moving

:53:08. > :53:11.picture. I can't imagine what the family is going through right now.

:53:12. > :53:16.It must have been incredibly difficult to make that decision to

:53:17. > :53:21.release it? Yes. I think I will tell you how the photograph came around.

:53:22. > :53:24.Both Julia and Mike were in arrow park Hospital. They have done a

:53:25. > :53:29.marvellous job. Mike had become really unwell and he was blue

:53:30. > :53:32.lighted into Arrow Park and the nursing team have been brilliant.

:53:33. > :53:37.Mike has been unwell for threeiers and he has been in and out of care

:53:38. > :53:41.and he has been fighting this battle and had various operations and

:53:42. > :53:47.treatment and Julie became really unwell between April last year and

:53:48. > :53:51.the diagnosis in May, both they different kind of cancer, you know,

:53:52. > :53:56.you couldn't write it, could you? So obviously they were in arrow park

:53:57. > :53:59.together and Julie became unwell and admitted herself and the hospital

:54:00. > :54:03.staff pushed the beds together knowing that Mike was nearing the

:54:04. > :54:07.end. The photograph was taken by a relative, by one of the aunties and

:54:08. > :54:13.it was purely because it was a beautiful photograph. These were two

:54:14. > :54:15.people who were pea ins a pod and loved each other detail crisis and

:54:16. > :54:20.they brought their kids up with that. They are a solid family unit.

:54:21. > :54:24.The kids released the photograph because, because of who they are and

:54:25. > :54:29.where they sit-in the community. Everyone was asking all the time how

:54:30. > :54:36.is Julie? How is Mike? What's the news? What's the update? Where are

:54:37. > :54:40.we? Can we do anything? It was to help people understand, it was a

:54:41. > :54:43.case of no, dad has passed and this was taken of the it was done out of

:54:44. > :54:47.love and sharing the photograph and the image and they were OK and they

:54:48. > :54:51.were there together. That's how the photograph came around, but we

:54:52. > :54:55.didn't expect the response we've from everyone around the world. It

:54:56. > :54:58.is really overwhelmed everyone and we are astonished and we are

:54:59. > :55:02.grateful for the support that the family has got at the moment. You

:55:03. > :55:06.say from around the world. So have you got people getting in touch from

:55:07. > :55:10.well beyond these shores? Oaks far and beyond. We have set-up a Just

:55:11. > :55:17.Giving page and that's around raising funds to help the three kids

:55:18. > :55:21.Luke, Hannah and Olly to fulfil the dreams and ambitions that Julie and

:55:22. > :55:25.Mike thud had. They didn't want Luke to drop out of university and Hannah

:55:26. > :55:29.to end college and go into a jobment they want them to continue their

:55:30. > :55:33.studies of the that's what the fund was set-up for. The fund has grown

:55:34. > :55:39.and it has expanded beyond our belief and people are reaching out.

:55:40. > :55:44.The stories come from all walks of life. There was a chap from Canada

:55:45. > :55:48.who said his brother, his brother-in-law was in the same

:55:49. > :55:53.situation and he lost both his parents. There is another family

:55:54. > :55:57.from America and they said, you know, I was that kid. I lost my

:55:58. > :56:01.parents when I was young. We get, you know, there is a pensioner from

:56:02. > :56:05.Scotland who made contact and said, "I can't afford to give you any

:56:06. > :56:09.money, but I'm going to knit something and I'll put it towards

:56:10. > :56:13.the auction." There was a homeless guy in Liverpool at the weekend who

:56:14. > :56:19.heard the conversations and all he collected that day, that ?2.56 he

:56:20. > :56:23.wanted it to go to the kids. He knew the impact that these kids faced.

:56:24. > :56:26.That's amazing. That must be immense comfort to their children. I know

:56:27. > :56:33.that you've spoken to them. What have they been saying to you? They

:56:34. > :56:40.can't believe it. They're astoweded. You know, when I share some of the

:56:41. > :56:46.comments, they just can't believe the support and it has really struck

:56:47. > :56:50.a chord. It helps them understand this is life changing for them. This

:56:51. > :56:54.huge community has got together and put their arms around them and said,

:56:55. > :57:05.it is a bit pants right now, but it will be OK. It helping with their

:57:06. > :57:09.grieving do you think? I don't think, money doesn't help with

:57:10. > :57:15.grieving. It will take time for them to sink in. Monday morning and Olly

:57:16. > :57:20.wanted to go to school today. Your mum is not there and she is not

:57:21. > :57:23.ready to pack lunch or not given you money for your school dinners. Did

:57:24. > :57:30.you clean your shoes and where is your diary? Have I signed it? Those

:57:31. > :57:34.are the things that will impact the kids. They have not kaunties and

:57:35. > :57:40.aUngles staying with them and they're supporting them and as the

:57:41. > :57:44.kids get used to this, the aim is we keep them in the family home

:57:45. > :57:49.together. Mike and Julie have just brought up three amazing kids. They

:57:50. > :57:54.are solid as a unit together. You will find Hannah, will whip Olly

:57:55. > :57:58.into shape and you will find Luke will be giving Hannah that hug as a

:57:59. > :58:06.big brother does and they're there for each other now. Thank you for

:58:07. > :58:12.speaking to us. Heather. What's the Just Giving number up to? ?112,000.

:58:13. > :58:19.That's amazing. From everyone in the family, thank you. Heather, thank

:58:20. > :58:27.you. Thanks for your company. Joanna will be presenting the programme

:58:28. > :58:32.tomorrow. You can reach out to us on Twitter.

:58:33. > :58:36.# I knew you were trouble when you walked in

:58:37. > :58:40.# Now I'm lying on the cold, hard ground