28/02/2017

:00:08. > :00:10.Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:11. > :00:18.30 British people died during this terror attack in Tunisia in 2015.

:00:19. > :00:21.This morning a judge at inquests into their deaths will set out why

:00:22. > :00:31.he believes negligence did not play a part.

:00:32. > :00:40.INAUDIBLE The families of the victims

:00:41. > :00:45.already... INAUDIBLE

:00:46. > :00:46.We will sort his microphone out, no worries.

:00:47. > :00:47.Throughout the programme we'll get reaction from those

:00:48. > :01:02.He just stood there with this huge gun. He ran around all the people

:01:03. > :01:04.shouting. Just killing and murdering them.

:01:05. > :01:07.Also on the programme - Britain's most senior child

:01:08. > :01:09.protection officer says paedophiles who view indecent images shouldn't

:01:10. > :01:11.be charged with a criminal offence but should go

:01:12. > :01:14.We'll hear the rationale, and get reaction to

:01:15. > :01:36.And meet Kate. Hello, I'm Kate, I had a heart attack a day after

:01:37. > :01:39.running a ten kilometre race. I'm one of the youngest people to have

:01:40. > :01:44.one of this type of heart attack with no known risk factors. We will

:01:45. > :01:52.hear her story before ten. Welcome to the programme,

:01:53. > :02:04.we're live until 11 this morning. We will bring you the latest from

:02:05. > :02:13.the inquests into those British deaths in Tunisia. Also we will hear

:02:14. > :02:15.how two executives have paid for a trip to travel around the moon. The

:02:16. > :02:17.estimate is $50 million. Do get in touch

:02:18. > :02:20.on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

:02:21. > :02:22.use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

:02:23. > :02:25.at the standard network rate. The inquests into the deaths of 30

:02:26. > :02:29.British tourists who were murdered in a terror attack in Tunisia two

:02:30. > :02:32.years ago will conclude The coroner at the hearing heard

:02:33. > :02:35.that local policemen did nothing to stop the gunman for at least 25

:02:36. > :02:38.minutes, but in an exclusive interview with the BBC

:02:39. > :02:40.ahead of the verdict, a British witness has described how

:02:41. > :02:43.he stepped in to save some This is the gunman casually

:02:44. > :02:55.walking along the beach by the Imperial Hotel in the midst

:02:56. > :02:57.of the attack. Trained by so-called Islamic State,

:02:58. > :02:59.and unchallenged by the police, he systematically murdered 38

:03:00. > :03:06.holidaymakers, most were British. Today, Alan Pembroke

:03:07. > :03:08.leads a normal life, But he was on the beach

:03:09. > :03:19.at the time of that attack, and did something quite

:03:20. > :03:21.extraordinary, running back into the scene the attack

:03:22. > :03:24.after taking his wife to the safety I ran towards the gunfire,

:03:25. > :03:28.where I could now see I hit the deck, and as I hit

:03:29. > :03:43.the sand, I saw a lady, she was moving, semiconscious,

:03:44. > :03:45.breathing, and she had some I dressed her hand and covered her

:03:46. > :03:51.wrist with a scarf I had pulled down She then told me she had pain in her

:03:52. > :04:10.leg and she had a hole in her leg, so I got a beach towel and I wrapped

:04:11. > :04:14.it around her leg to compress His actions saved the life of Sarah,

:04:15. > :04:18.whose husband lay dead beside her. But he is haunted by what he saw

:04:19. > :04:22.and angry at the failure of the Tunisian police

:04:23. > :04:23.to intervene in time. I was on the beach for a good 20

:04:24. > :04:26.minutes with her alone. And I saw no military

:04:27. > :04:40.or medical staff. It is only in recent reports that

:04:41. > :04:43.I found out police waited, They need to be held

:04:44. > :04:47.accountable for that. Just three months earlier,

:04:48. > :04:49.foreign tourists were targeted in an attack by Islamic extremists,

:04:50. > :05:00.leaving 20 dead, in Tunis. But the Foreign Office did not

:05:01. > :05:03.change their overall travel advice. The colour-coded map for travel

:05:04. > :05:06.advice remained green for the coastal areas,

:05:07. > :05:08.so tourists could still go, even though the Foreign Office

:05:09. > :05:11.was warning of a high risk The senior official told the inquest

:05:12. > :05:24.here that the criteria had not been met to stop tourists from travelling

:05:25. > :05:32.to coastal resorts in Tunisia. Several survivors gave

:05:33. > :05:42.testimony that the holiday and instead they were told

:05:43. > :05:46.it was safe to go. Today, the families will finally

:05:47. > :05:50.hear the conclusions of the coroners Let's speak now to our correspondent

:05:51. > :05:56.Ben Brown who is outside court for us, and will be

:05:57. > :06:07.following the inquest the coroner, Doctor Nicholas

:06:08. > :06:12.Loraine-Smith, will be giving his conclusions on the deaths of all of

:06:13. > :06:21.those 30 British citizens who died at the massacre in Sousse. -- judge

:06:22. > :06:26.Nicholas Loraine-Smith. We will hear if he has any criticism of the

:06:27. > :06:29.holiday company involved. The lawyers for the families accused the

:06:30. > :06:38.company of utter complacency and gross neglect. That is, they say,

:06:39. > :06:43.because the customers were not alerted to the fact there had been a

:06:44. > :06:48.previous terror attack in Tunis three months previous where two

:06:49. > :06:52.people had died. And also because the Hotel where the customers were

:06:53. > :07:01.saying they say was not possibly vetted in terms of security cameras

:07:02. > :07:04.CCTV cameras, and armed guards. Tui Had failed in their duty of care of

:07:05. > :07:07.their customers, according to the families. They also have questions

:07:08. > :07:11.about the Foreign Office, whether the Foreign Office should have

:07:12. > :07:15.raised their advice in the wake of that attack in Tunis three months

:07:16. > :07:22.earlier at the museum. Whether they should have barred all travel to

:07:23. > :07:26.Tunisia. Families are angry about the response of the security forces,

:07:27. > :07:31.which the inquests have heard there was an unjustifiable delay by the

:07:32. > :07:35.Tunisian police. At one patrol, even though they had assault rifles in

:07:36. > :07:38.their vehicle, decided to go to a nearby police station and collect

:07:39. > :07:42.more weapons before going to the hotel to try to stop the gunman. He

:07:43. > :07:50.wasn't killed until some 45 minutes after his attack had begun.

:07:51. > :07:53.Thank you. Ben Brown is live outside the Royal Courts of Justice. More on

:07:54. > :07:59.that come from Ben throughout the morning. -- to come from Ben.

:08:00. > :08:01.Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:08:02. > :08:05.A BBC investigation has revealed there were more than 20,000

:08:06. > :08:07.allegations of abuse made against home care workers over

:08:08. > :08:11.Many of the cases involved neglect but there were also

:08:12. > :08:12.allegations of physical, psychological and sexual abuse.

:08:13. > :08:15.The UK Home Care Association has described the findings as horrifying

:08:16. > :08:17.but warns the system is under extreme pressure.

:08:18. > :08:25.Caught by a hidden camera, Maurice Campbell was jailed for over

:08:26. > :08:32.two years for abusing 85-year-old Dora in her own home.

:08:33. > :08:34.These images are especially disturbing because he was supposed

:08:35. > :08:42.It is a serious case of obvious neglect.

:08:43. > :08:45.Complaints against home carers can cover a range of problems

:08:46. > :08:47.from cruelty to mistakes with medication to being

:08:48. > :08:58.My father was quite a mild-mannered man all his life.

:08:59. > :09:09.He had not had a shave, he was a smart man and became

:09:10. > :09:13.Pauline believes that neglect, in particular when he was given

:09:14. > :09:18.the wrong medication, contributed to his death.

:09:19. > :09:21.Just over half the councils in the UK contacted by the BBC

:09:22. > :09:23.answered a Freedom of information request which found there had been

:09:24. > :09:25.23,500 allegations of abuse against home carers over

:09:26. > :09:36.The police were involved in almost 700 cases and there

:09:37. > :09:42.We do not know how many of the total complaints were valid but the local

:09:43. > :09:48.government ombudsman has seen a significant rise in cases.

:09:49. > :09:50.We have seen a 25% increase in complaints about home-care

:09:51. > :09:57.When we investigated the complaints what we found is that 65%

:09:58. > :10:00.of the time our investigation shows that there was fault

:10:01. > :10:05.That is far higher than we found in any other part of the work we do.

:10:06. > :10:07.The government says it has introduced tougher

:10:08. > :10:09.inspections and given councils dedicated funding.

:10:10. > :10:12.But with an ageing population and tight budgets the theory is that

:10:13. > :10:31.Britain's most senior child protection police officer has said

:10:32. > :10:33.paedophiles who pose no physical threat to children shouldn't be

:10:34. > :10:39.prosecuted. Simon Bailey said

:10:40. > :10:41.the system had reached 'saturation point', because of the increased

:10:42. > :10:43.reporting of sexual abuse - and that 'lower-level' offending

:10:44. > :10:56.should be decriminalised Spacek 's has announced plans to fly

:10:57. > :11:07.two passengers around the moon next year. -- SpaceX. The pair have paid

:11:08. > :11:11.a significant deposit for the trip. Greg Dawson reports.

:11:12. > :11:16.It remains the pinnacle of human exploration.

:11:17. > :11:19.But since this NASA Apollo 17 mission in 1972, nobody has

:11:20. > :11:27.since made the 240,000 mile journey to the moon.

:11:28. > :11:33.This is the company that claims that's about to change.

:11:34. > :11:36.SpaceX, the commercial US rocket company, has announced plans to send

:11:37. > :11:42.two private citizens on a lunar journey late next year.

:11:43. > :11:46.Their owner, the entrepreneur Elon Musk tweeted -

:11:47. > :11:51.An astronomical journey like this comes with an astronomical price

:11:52. > :11:56.tag, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

:11:57. > :11:58.Mr Musk revealed little about the mystery travellers

:11:59. > :12:00.except they paid a significant deposit and that they are aware of

:12:01. > :12:08.The late 2018 deadline for this flight is ambitious.

:12:09. > :12:17.-- SpaceX has had problems in the past.

:12:18. > :12:18.Last September, one of its rockets exploded

:12:19. > :12:23.But it represents a new era of the space race with private

:12:24. > :12:24.companies, not countries, competing against each other.

:12:25. > :12:30.NASA has given its support to the plans which, if successful,

:12:31. > :12:32.will launch the era of space tourism.

:12:33. > :12:39.That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:12:40. > :12:53.In half an hour we are going to talk to an individual who gets personal

:12:54. > :12:57.independence payments for his anxiety, depression, his OCD, and

:12:58. > :13:02.his eating disorder. When he was assessed it was ruled that he

:13:03. > :13:07.shouldn't get disability payments, but he overturned that on tribunal.

:13:08. > :13:14.He is going to react to the fact Theresa May's policy unit has said

:13:15. > :13:18.these payments should be for really disabled people, not simply people

:13:19. > :13:22.taking pills for anxiety at home. Some comments. Mark says anxiety and

:13:23. > :13:25.depression has ruined my life, it is bad enough for me to try and live on

:13:26. > :13:30.a day-to-day basis without constant fear of my benefits being cut or

:13:31. > :13:34.stopped. I'm 60 this year so cannot yet claim my pension. Can somebody

:13:35. > :13:42.make the Conservatives see sense and leave us alone? Another comment,

:13:43. > :13:43.this is sheer ignorance of depression. This is absolutely

:13:44. > :13:47.outrageous. Do get in touch with us

:13:48. > :13:58.throughout the morning. Especially if you are somebody who

:13:59. > :14:01.suffers from depression, and particularly if you are" somebody

:14:02. > :14:05.who takes pills at home". Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:14:06. > :14:08.and if you text, you will be charged Let's get some sport now

:14:09. > :14:15.with Katherine Downes. If you are Claudio Ranieri, after

:14:16. > :14:20.Leicester's performance last night, wouldn't you be hurt?

:14:21. > :14:30.We don't know if you watched, because he was reportedly at a zoo

:14:31. > :14:34.with his family. Claudio Ranieri was sacked as boss of Leicester a few

:14:35. > :14:37.days ago. Nobody knew what the atmosphere was going to be like.

:14:38. > :14:41.Would the fans be sad, would there be anger? In the end it was a

:14:42. > :14:47.celebration of everything he achieved at this time at Leicester.

:14:48. > :14:53.He took the Premier League title last season. The sad reality is that

:14:54. > :14:55.it took the removal of Claudio Ranieri, as manager, for Leicester

:14:56. > :15:01.to find the form they enjoyed under him last season. Some great goals

:15:02. > :15:05.coming up. Check out this one from Danny Drinkwater. Leicester scoring

:15:06. > :15:11.their first goals in the league this year in 2017. That was Danny

:15:12. > :15:16.Drinkwater's. And two from Jamie Vardy. Meaning they beat Liverpool

:15:17. > :15:21.last night 3-1. Remarkable, considering they had such a dreadful

:15:22. > :15:24.season so far, finding themselves in the bottom three. They pulled

:15:25. > :15:29.themselves out of the relegation zone. Their first match without

:15:30. > :15:37.manager Claudio Ranieri. Let's listen to what Jamie Vardy made of

:15:38. > :15:40.that result. Lots unfair stuff has been written. -- lots of. Lots of

:15:41. > :15:45.stuff had been written about everybody, not just me. It got us

:15:46. > :15:52.fired up in a good way to put a reaction on the pitch, which we have

:15:53. > :15:57.done. What reaction to that win? Plenty. The eyes of the footballing

:15:58. > :15:58.world would have been on that to see how Leicester reacted following the

:15:59. > :16:21.removal of Claudio Ranieri. Chris Sutton is talking about Craig

:16:22. > :16:24.sheuks sphere. This one, Leicester players

:16:25. > :16:29.certainly proving a point. That's Matt Dickinson writing in the Times,

:16:30. > :16:32.whether it is a point about them or Ranieri will be much debated. Plenty

:16:33. > :16:38.of debate in the papers this morning. This is Richard Osman

:16:39. > :16:41.saying, "I'm putting some money on Leicester winning the title.

:16:42. > :16:46.Mathematically they can't win the title this year." John Cross writing

:16:47. > :16:49.in the Mirror should Leicester players be celebrating or hanging

:16:50. > :16:54.their heads in shame? The question over the team about whether they

:16:55. > :16:57.downed tools to get Ranieri sacked? It is the controversy surrounding

:16:58. > :16:58.that match and that result. 3-1 against Liverpool last night.

:16:59. > :17:03.Cheers. Thank you. 38 people were killed,

:17:04. > :17:07.30 of them British tourists, when a gunman opened fire on a beach

:17:08. > :17:12.in Tunisia two years ago. As holiday-makers fled

:17:13. > :17:14.for their lives, Tunisian student Seifeddine Rezgui,

:17:15. > :17:18.continued his attack, entering the hotel complex

:17:19. > :17:21.through the pool area. The massacre was the greatest

:17:22. > :17:23.British loss of life in a terror attack since the London

:17:24. > :17:25.bombings in 2005. For the last six weeks there have

:17:26. > :17:36.been extensive inquests into the deaths of those

:17:37. > :17:39.who were killed on that day and in less than an hour's time

:17:40. > :17:42.the coroner will start to deliver his conclusions

:17:43. > :17:43.on how they died. We'll bring you those

:17:44. > :17:45.conclusions as they happen But first, here's a reminder

:17:46. > :17:52.of how the day unfolded. The terrifying moment a gunman

:17:53. > :17:56.enters a popular beach resort in Tunisia and opens fire with a

:17:57. > :18:00.Kalashnikov. Holiday-makers flee across the sand.

:18:01. > :18:05.For half an hour, he is able to roam across the beach and through the

:18:06. > :18:10.hotel. Seeking out and systematically killing innocent

:18:11. > :18:15.tourists. 38 people died. 30 were British. The

:18:16. > :18:19.biggest loss of British life in a terror attack since the London 7/7

:18:20. > :18:26.bombings. So-called Islamic State said it was behind the attack,

:18:27. > :18:31.carried out by a Tunisian student. Who those who survived recall the

:18:32. > :18:38.horror of what happened that day. He just stood there with his huge gun.

:18:39. > :18:46.He was wandering around all the people shooting them. He was just

:18:47. > :18:53.killing and murdering them. I just had my head phones on. I just

:18:54. > :18:58.heard some sounds. I just thought, fireworks like everyone else did. I

:18:59. > :19:03.just turned and looked at my wife on the sunbed next to me and she was

:19:04. > :19:08.already off the sunbed running in that direction. I just decided to

:19:09. > :19:14.run straight down the beach. Into the sea. I could still hear

:19:15. > :19:19.everything still going on. You never forget that sound. Now, a coroner's

:19:20. > :19:23.inquest has heard what factors could have ccted to the attackment one key

:19:24. > :19:29.area is the Foreign Office's travel advice. At the time of the attack,

:19:30. > :19:33.three months after Jihadists targeted tourists a shooting in the

:19:34. > :19:36.condition's capital, it did specifically advice holiday-makers

:19:37. > :19:40.against going to Tunis yasmt instead advice on its website said, "Further

:19:41. > :19:44.attacks are possible." A senior Foreign Office official has defended

:19:45. > :19:49.the decision. The inquest also heard claims that part of the attack or

:19:50. > :19:54.most of it, could have been prevented by tighter security with

:19:55. > :19:59.tour operator TUI showing utter complacency. There were four unarmed

:20:00. > :20:02.security guards on duty that day. TUI's lawyer argued some steps were

:20:03. > :20:09.taken by the firm to keep guests safe. The inquest also heard there

:20:10. > :20:12.was an unjustifiable delay by Tunisian law enforcement units to

:20:13. > :20:16.intervene during the attack with some units taking 30 minutes longer

:20:17. > :20:30.than they should have to reach the scene. It heard this was due to

:20:31. > :20:41.simple cowardice. From 10am, the coroner will explain

:20:42. > :20:49.why neglect is a contributory factor.

:20:50. > :20:52.We can speak now to two British survivors of the Tunisian terror

:20:53. > :20:54.attack, Colin Bidwell was on the beach with his wife

:20:55. > :20:58.He was shot at and grazed by two bullets and in Sheffield

:20:59. > :21:02.She was also on the beach with her husband and her

:21:03. > :21:06.Colin thank you very much for coming on. Tell us where you were when the

:21:07. > :21:09.gunman started shooting? I was lying on the sunbed following the shade.

:21:10. > :21:12.My wife was following the sun. I had my head phones on. I thought it was

:21:13. > :21:16.fireworks like everybody else. By the time I got up and realised it

:21:17. > :21:20.was gunfire, most of the people had run off the beach including my wife.

:21:21. > :21:23.So you saw people running. Did you see the gunman? I didn't see him at

:21:24. > :21:31.that point, no. Where did you run to? Well, I managed to fall off the

:21:32. > :21:35.sunbed and crawl as far as I could and literally hid behind a boat and

:21:36. > :21:39.just prayed for my life. You hid behind a boat? I hid behind one of

:21:40. > :21:43.the spare boats from the water sports team and just put me head in

:21:44. > :21:49.the sand and prayed to God. I thought I was going to die. Did you?

:21:50. > :21:53.Yes. While you were doing that, you could hear the chaos? I could hear

:21:54. > :21:56.gunfire. I didn't know if it was aimed at me, but as far as I was

:21:57. > :22:00.concerned, someone was out to kill me. When did you realise you had

:22:01. > :22:06.been shot at? Still to this day, I don't know. The adrenalin kicks in.

:22:07. > :22:09.When I swam out to sea and I started to signal to someone when I turned

:22:10. > :22:13.back to look at the beach, that's when I realised something was wrong.

:22:14. > :22:19.I couldn't see any blood or anything, I just felt a tingle and I

:22:20. > :22:23.just didn't know. Not until Mohamed pulled me on the boat that probably

:22:24. > :22:29.I had maybe got an injury. Tell us about that. Well, the bullet passed

:22:30. > :22:33.as close as it could to the back of my arm. It took a bit of flesh away

:22:34. > :22:40.and I took one to the inside of my right leg as well. But, how they

:22:41. > :22:43.just did nothing to me really, just scratches, you know, compared to the

:22:44. > :22:47.injuries other people had. I count myself very lucky, very lucky.

:22:48. > :22:51.Remarkable actually? Yes. What about your wife when you were running into

:22:52. > :22:55.the sea? Well, when I looked up off the sunbed she was already running

:22:56. > :22:59.to escape. I was a few seconds behind everybody because I had my

:23:00. > :23:04.head phones on. She went a different way than what I went and it is funny

:23:05. > :23:08.when you're panicking, I didn't really think about my wife until

:23:09. > :23:12.later on because you're just trying to protect yourself. You're trying

:23:13. > :23:17.to survive. The animal instincts fight or flight. That's all you can

:23:18. > :23:22.do in those moments. You had been to Tunisia a few times, I think, before

:23:23. > :23:25.the attack. Where you aware of the security concerns around the country

:23:26. > :23:31.when you went this time? That's a very good question. We had been to

:23:32. > :23:36.Tunisia on numerous owication and we were aware of the Arab Spring, the

:23:37. > :23:42.revolution, so we decided not to go for 18 months, two years. We saw the

:23:43. > :23:45.shocking attack. I did think that possibly we wouldn't go, but once we

:23:46. > :23:49.went to the travel agent and we thought OK, we'll go back to the

:23:50. > :23:54.hotel we've always wanted to go to, it suited our budget and the timing,

:23:55. > :23:58.it was not until I realised when we got there, I met the Thompson rep,

:23:59. > :24:03.we went to book a trip and they said that trip has been taken off because

:24:04. > :24:11.it is in the red area. Meaning? They didn't want any British tourists in

:24:12. > :24:15.that that part of Tunisia. That was the first time maybe it crossed my

:24:16. > :24:18.mindment you think that everywhere is going to be safe when you go on

:24:19. > :24:22.holiday. You think you're going to be safe. The Foreign Office have

:24:23. > :24:25.been criticised, advice on their website at that time was that

:24:26. > :24:28.further attacks in Tunisia were likely, but it didn't actually say

:24:29. > :24:33.don't travel to Tunisia? That's true. That's true. I did look at it

:24:34. > :24:38.and maybe I should have looked at it a bit more thorough, but when you go

:24:39. > :24:42.away and you know something has happened, you never think its going

:24:43. > :24:47.to happen to you anyway. How has what happened that day affected the

:24:48. > :24:51.way you live now, Colin? Well, for me I've decided to live my life for

:24:52. > :24:55.the better of my experience. I've decided that my wife is still

:24:56. > :25:01.suffering and there is still lots of people out there injured and

:25:02. > :25:06.uninjured that are still suffering. PTSD is the worst thing. And my wife

:25:07. > :25:14.is dealing with it every day. We're getting help now. She has PDST, does

:25:15. > :25:17.she? Yes. Things are improving. At the beginning it was a little bit

:25:18. > :25:21.lacking in the help that the people who came back got help. It was a bit

:25:22. > :25:25.slow coming through, but now, I think, you know, we have got a good

:25:26. > :25:32.support groups with, we have got a good Facebook page and everyone stay

:25:33. > :25:36.ins touch and regularly meets up as a group of survivors, we're not

:25:37. > :25:40.victims, we're survivors. I made some life long friends that I have

:25:41. > :25:47.forever. Forever. You will know that the coroner is going to say that the

:25:48. > :25:52.people who were killed were victims of unlawful killing, but he's not

:25:53. > :25:56.going to say that neglect contributed to their deaths ie, lack

:25:57. > :26:01.of security at the hotel, cowardice is the word that's been used during

:26:02. > :26:04.the inquest hearings of some of the local police officers, what do you

:26:05. > :26:08.think about that decision? At the time, I thought it was lacking and

:26:09. > :26:13.since more information has come through, preinquest, it is quite

:26:14. > :26:20.shocking to think that there was that long space of time when nobody

:26:21. > :26:27.came which is, it is concerning I will say. Everything was lacking is

:26:28. > :26:32.the kindest word. So it would be the wrong decision if the coroner says

:26:33. > :26:36.unlawful killing? I would rather not comment until the inquest and leave

:26:37. > :26:43.it to the experts, that's my suggestion. OK, let's bring in

:26:44. > :26:49.Maxine. I don't know if you know Maxine. Yes, I do. Yes. Maxine,

:26:50. > :26:54.hello. Hello. I've got Colin here with me. Thank you very much for

:26:55. > :27:04.talking to us Maxine. I wonder if you can tell our audience about

:27:05. > :27:08.where you were with your husband and your 14-year-old daughter when the

:27:09. > :27:16.attack started? We went down to the beach that morning. Bronwyn wanted

:27:17. > :27:25.to go into the sea. So we let her go into the sea and having a lovely

:27:26. > :27:32.holiday like everybody expects and then within five, ten, 15 minutes

:27:33. > :27:38.everything just erupted. It was just unbelievable. I looked towards

:27:39. > :27:47.forward on the beach and I noticed that there were people running

:27:48. > :27:50.towards us and Bronwyn and I started panicking a little bit and then I

:27:51. > :27:58.was getting worse and worse as they were coming closer and closer. And

:27:59. > :28:07.there were two gentlemen, I think, some young lads were playing

:28:08. > :28:12.football further on the beach and then gentlemen did have a gun and I

:28:13. > :28:16.knew it was a gun and I could hear all this noise and people running

:28:17. > :28:21.towards us. I said, "Get out of the sea now." She was saying, "Mum, I'm

:28:22. > :28:26.OK." I said, "Get out of the sea now." I didn't want to explain to

:28:27. > :28:31.her what I thought was happening. It was obvious what was happening. How

:28:32. > :28:35.would you say your lives have changed as a result of what you saw

:28:36. > :28:40.that day and also, your daughter as well, how has she been affected by

:28:41. > :28:45.it? Bronwyn has took it really, really, really well. In fact she has

:28:46. > :28:50.been superb really. She has really managed with it very well. We had

:28:51. > :28:58.counselling. I had counselling. Richard had counselling. I think I

:28:59. > :29:06.was worst because it affected me really bad. You go away on holiday

:29:07. > :29:12.hoping for a lovely time. Unfortunately, this incident

:29:13. > :29:28.happened, but we're lucky because we survived, but there is so many

:29:29. > :29:33.people that actually had fatalities some families and my heart goes out

:29:34. > :29:39.to everybody who had a fatality. I think we should have had a bit more

:29:40. > :29:45.help than what we did as well by Government, by Tunisia people. They

:29:46. > :29:52.probably saved our lives. They hid us in cupboards. We was in a kitchen

:29:53. > :29:57.unit under, it was horrendous. It was really, really horrendous and

:29:58. > :30:03.I'll never ever get over it, ever. But you just learn to live with it.

:30:04. > :30:08.It is one of the reasons I think... My heart goes out to all them that

:30:09. > :30:15.had fatality and that's what gets to me more than anything because I just

:30:16. > :30:18.hoped they got help and everything for themselves and to be better

:30:19. > :30:24.because it's just horrendous and I just hope they get the results when

:30:25. > :30:28.they come to the conclusion this afternoon. It is one of the reasons

:30:29. > :30:32.you destroyed your pictures from that time. Let me come back to

:30:33. > :30:37.Colin. You have been back there. Yes. Let's have a little look.

:30:38. > :31:33.Let's do it. Let's do it. just had my headphones on. I heard

:31:34. > :31:37.some sounds. I just thought it was fireworks, like everybody else did.

:31:38. > :31:42.I just turned and looked at my wife next to me on the sunbed. She was

:31:43. > :31:45.already off the sunbed, running in that direction. I just decided to

:31:46. > :31:51.run straight down the beach into the sea. I could still hear everything

:31:52. > :31:57.still going on. You never forget that sound. We could hear you

:31:58. > :32:03.breathing deeply to steal yourself when you walked in that place. It

:32:04. > :32:07.brought a lump to my throat again, seeing it again, but I definitely

:32:08. > :32:11.feel better for the experience of going back. I've always said this

:32:12. > :32:15.isn't for everybody, but I just started to doubt things in my mind.

:32:16. > :32:20.Did I really see what I saw? Did that really happen to me? I was

:32:21. > :32:24.conscious when people were asking what happened to me I did not want

:32:25. > :32:29.to give a fisherman 's tale. Because I couldn't believe it myself, what

:32:30. > :32:32.had happened. So the opportunity to go back and meet the people who were

:32:33. > :32:37.significant to my story, my particular story, Mohammed and

:32:38. > :32:42.monster, the people who were integral to my survival. I would not

:32:43. > :32:50.be here if it wasn't for those people. -- Monsef. What happened?

:32:51. > :32:55.Mohammed definitely pulled me into the boat and saved my life. Monsef

:32:56. > :33:00.Was throwing debris at the gunman, that distracted him, I was stopped

:33:01. > :33:05.from jumping over the wall. It put all of the pieces back together. It

:33:06. > :33:10.is all a part of my journey. Thank you for talking to us today. No

:33:11. > :33:14.problem and pleasure to meet you. Thank you for coming onto the

:33:15. > :33:19.programme. We appreciate it. The coroner will start to deliver his

:33:20. > :33:22.conclusions on how the 30 Britons died in around 25 minutes.

:33:23. > :33:25.Judge Nicholas Loraine-Smith is expected to say that all 30 Brits

:33:26. > :33:30.He'll also examine whether the UK government and travel firms failed

:33:31. > :33:37.He's also expected to reject a request to rule neglect

:33:38. > :33:39.was a contributory factor in their deaths.

:33:40. > :33:41.We'll bring you those conclusions as they happen

:33:42. > :33:47.Our correspondent Ben Brown will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice

:33:48. > :34:02.A rare type of heart attack that mainly affects young women.

:34:03. > :34:05.We'll be talking to two mothers, one who is one of the youngest

:34:06. > :34:07.people in the UK to survive this kind of attack.

:34:08. > :34:15.One had a heart attack ten hours after giving birth, the other had a

:34:16. > :34:22.heart attack the day after running a ten kilometre run.

:34:23. > :34:26.Two tourists have paid to be sent round the moon; the mission next

:34:27. > :34:30.Here's a summary of todays news from the BBC Newsroom.

:34:31. > :34:32.The inquests into the deaths of 30 British tourists,

:34:33. > :34:35.who were murdered by an Islamist gunman in Tunisia two years ago,

:34:36. > :34:39.They were among 38 people killed near the resort of Sousse.

:34:40. > :34:42.At the hearing, at the Royal Courts of Justice, the coroner will explain

:34:43. > :34:45.why he has rejected a request by many of the bereaved relatives

:34:46. > :34:48.to rule that neglect contributed to their deaths.

:34:49. > :34:50.A BBC investigation has revealed there were more than 20,000

:34:51. > :34:52.allegations of abuse made against home care workers over

:34:53. > :34:58.Many of the cases involved neglect but there were also

:34:59. > :35:02.allegations of physical, psychological and sexual abuse.

:35:03. > :35:04.The UK Home Care Association has described the findings

:35:05. > :35:16.as horrifying, but says the system is under extreme pressure.

:35:17. > :35:22.Simon Bailey has said paedophiles who pose no physical threat to

:35:23. > :35:27.children shouldn't be prosecuted. He said the system had reached

:35:28. > :35:34.saturation point because of the repeated cases of abuse. He said

:35:35. > :35:38.lower-level cases should not be decriminalised -- should be

:35:39. > :35:39.decriminalised in preference of rehabilitation.

:35:40. > :35:42.The Prison Officers' Association has announced more industrial action

:35:43. > :35:46.Members are being told to withdraw from voluntary duties

:35:47. > :35:50.An overtime ban will also be phased in from April.

:35:51. > :35:53.It's understood the union has been warned it will be taken to court

:35:54. > :36:02.The UN children's agency says thousands of unaccompanied child

:36:03. > :36:08.refugees are being subjected to violence and sexual abuse on their

:36:09. > :36:11.away from Africa to Europe will stop -- to Europe.

:36:12. > :36:13.A report by UNICEF says nearly 26,000 children made

:36:14. > :36:16.the dangerous sea journey from Libya to Italy in 2016, twice as many

:36:17. > :36:19.as the previous year - and nine out of ten

:36:20. > :36:22.It's calling on the international community to do more

:36:23. > :36:37.SpaceX Has announced plans to fly two people around the moon. The pair

:36:38. > :36:42.had already paid a significant deposit but were not celebrities. If

:36:43. > :36:47.successful the trip would be the first trip in over 40 years.

:36:48. > :36:53.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

:36:54. > :37:02.We have some comments on personal independence payments. Alexandra

:37:03. > :37:05.says, I am 45, I have depression, personality disorder, and have a

:37:06. > :37:13.brain tumour which has left me with terrible seizures on a weekly basis.

:37:14. > :37:17.I am under the mental health team and a specialist for my seizures.

:37:18. > :37:21.I've had my personal independence payments put down from the highest

:37:22. > :37:26.rated, which I need, to the lowest. And having to go to court now to

:37:27. > :37:29.claim it back. Even letters from a specialist say I need the highest

:37:30. > :37:33.rate and I'm unable to work. I'm now in debt and trying to level 300

:37:34. > :37:40.pounds per month. I feel really let down. I never asked for this. I

:37:41. > :37:43.always worked up until I became ill. Sharon says I suffered PTSD after a

:37:44. > :37:47.bad car accident a couple of years ago. I still have anxiety and

:37:48. > :37:55.depression and I'm on medication. I was recently awarded PIP which was

:37:56. > :37:59.helped a lot. I would be devastated if it stopped. Some days I cannot

:38:00. > :38:04.leave the house. I have a visit every day from a psychiatric nurse

:38:05. > :38:07.which helps greatly. We will talk more about the government's plans

:38:08. > :38:09.about PIPs. Katherine's here now

:38:10. > :38:16.with the sports headlines. Leicester have pulled themselves out

:38:17. > :38:21.of the relegation zone with a 3-1 win over Liverpool last night. Danny

:38:22. > :38:26.Drinkwater scored this great goal. And there were two, as well, for

:38:27. > :38:30.Jamie Vardy as Leicester won their first game after the dismissal of

:38:31. > :38:34.manager Claudio Ranieri. The crowd had a march of celebration to thank

:38:35. > :38:36.Claudio Ranieri for all he achieved for them.

:38:37. > :38:40.David Haye and Tony Bellew had to be kept apart as they met in Liverpool

:38:41. > :38:43.ahead of their heavyweight clash on Saturday. The pair came to blows

:38:44. > :38:47.with the last met at a press conference in November.

:38:48. > :38:52.World rugby says it is too early to speculate whether there will be a

:38:53. > :38:55.rule change after Italy's tactics in their six Nations defeat to England

:38:56. > :39:00.on Saturday. There was confusion among the England players with

:39:01. > :39:05.Italy's calculated plan which frustrated Eddie Howe.

:39:06. > :39:07.More later. Thanks very much.

:39:08. > :39:10.This morning: women who've had heart attacks in their 30s - and survived.

:39:11. > :39:13.Catherine Becks was 37 years old when she had a heart attack -

:39:14. > :39:16.she was 9 months pregnant at the time and gave birth 10

:39:17. > :39:20.hours later to a happy and healthy baby boy, Harry.

:39:21. > :39:24.Kate Alderton had her heart attack at 30 -

:39:25. > :39:27.the day after taking part in a 10k run - she's one of the youngest

:39:28. > :39:29.women to ever survive a heart attack in the UK.

:39:30. > :39:32.They both had a type of spontaneous heart attack called SCAD

:39:33. > :39:34.which mainly affects healthy, young women.

:39:35. > :39:36.Cardiologist David Adlam is trying to raise awareness

:39:37. > :39:44.of the rare condition - and he's also with us now.

:39:45. > :39:52.And Kate, tell us what happened. It was Saint Patrick's Day 2014. I ran

:39:53. > :39:58.a ten K race the day before. That was nothing unusual. I have done a

:39:59. > :40:01.lot of running. I work up, I felt fine, I went downstairs, I've got

:40:02. > :40:05.two little ones, I made them breakfast. As I started to make my

:40:06. > :40:10.own breakfast I had a chest pain which went on for quite a while. I

:40:11. > :40:13.was quite short of breath. In hindsight, looking back I had the

:40:14. > :40:18.classic heart attack symptoms but you don't expect it at 30. I had

:40:19. > :40:27.numbing down my left arm. Chest pain. Shortness of breath. The chest

:40:28. > :40:31.pain got worse. After half an hour I called my husband. He came home from

:40:32. > :40:34.work. He saw me and he rang in ambient straightaway. At that point

:40:35. > :40:38.I still thought it was a chest infection. The paramedics came. They

:40:39. > :40:44.initially thought I was having an anxiety attack because of my age.

:40:45. > :40:47.Because I kept holding my chest the paramedics did an ECG. And he said

:40:48. > :40:52.there are some abnormalities. She said if we were -- if you were older

:40:53. > :40:56.we would think you are having a heart attack. But we will take you

:40:57. > :41:00.in just in case. When I went and I was met by a cardiologist. At this

:41:01. > :41:04.point I could not understand why they were talking about hearts. I

:41:05. > :41:09.still thought I had a chest infection. I was in the lab for two

:41:10. > :41:15.hours. They were looking at my arteries. They kept talking to me,

:41:16. > :41:18.kept showing me pictures of the heart, couldn't understand it. It

:41:19. > :41:23.wasn't until later that where I was sat with people in the coronary

:41:24. > :41:27.heart care unit, people who were a lot older than me, and it dawned on

:41:28. > :41:33.me that there was a problem with my heart and I was told I'd had a heart

:41:34. > :41:36.attack. Extraordinary. Clearly you survived, but there is damage to

:41:37. > :41:40.your heart, we will talk about that in a moment and what changes you

:41:41. > :41:43.have had to make. Catherine, your case is different, you were nine

:41:44. > :41:52.months pregnant at the time, what happened? -- Catherine Becks. Like

:41:53. > :41:56.Kate. I woke up feeling very thirsty, chest pain, numbness down

:41:57. > :42:03.the left arm, I went downstairs, had a drink, just felt very tight

:42:04. > :42:07.chested. I felt I needed to get to the hospital. I had an inkling that

:42:08. > :42:11.it was crucial for me to get to the hospital. At the time we only had

:42:12. > :42:17.one mile from a hospital. I went, I was told to wait, I was looked on as

:42:18. > :42:20.a lady about to go into labour. I was pacing the floor. I knew I

:42:21. > :42:28.wasn't in labour. Just was very focused on this vice like chest

:42:29. > :42:34.pain. I was taken to the maternity floor. I became very unwell. They

:42:35. > :42:39.then decided that to put monitors on the baby. They did an ECG. It showed

:42:40. > :42:47.my heart was in trouble. I was brought into another room. I was in

:42:48. > :42:51.and out of consciousness. I was very unstable. In and out of

:42:52. > :42:56.consciousness for quite a while. Then they decided to transfer me to

:42:57. > :43:02.Southampton General. I was moonlighted down there with two

:43:03. > :43:06.doctors in the ambulance, as well. I was then stabilised. Because it was

:43:07. > :43:10.such a long time ago, this was, well, it'll be 18 years this June, I

:43:11. > :43:14.don't think they knew quite what to do regarding the pregnancy.

:43:15. > :43:20.Approximately ten hours later I think they decided it was crucial to

:43:21. > :43:24.get the baby out. I was given a general anaesthetic and emergency

:43:25. > :43:30.Caesarean. And, yes, fortunately Harry was born fit and well. Doctor

:43:31. > :43:36.Adler, you have let research into these kind of attacks, what can you

:43:37. > :43:46.tell us that you have learned so far. -- Doctor Adlam. Catherine's

:43:47. > :43:50.story is telling. These conditions are often unrecognised -- under

:43:51. > :43:53.recognised. And diagnosis can sometimes be delayed. It is one of

:43:54. > :43:58.the things we are trying to do on a rare disease Day, raise awareness of

:43:59. > :44:07.conditions like spontaneous, Rory artery dissection -- spontaneous

:44:08. > :44:11.coronary artery dissection. It is nothing to do with cholesterol like

:44:12. > :44:16.the normal heart attacks we are very familiar with. What happens in this

:44:17. > :44:21.case is you get a bruise which forms on the wall of the coronary artery

:44:22. > :44:26.and it squashes. If you think about a bruise in your shin and how tense

:44:27. > :44:31.that feels when the pressure rises, it does the same thing. The pressure

:44:32. > :44:34.rises and it compresses the artery from the outside. That is what stops

:44:35. > :44:40.blood flowing to the heart muscle and causes these ladies to have a

:44:41. > :44:45.heart attack. It is a very different course for a heart attack. As a

:44:46. > :44:49.result it's important to recognise and identify patients who, if you

:44:50. > :44:53.like, are rather different from those patients we usually see with

:44:54. > :44:57.heart problems presenting to hospital. Absolutely. Kate, there

:44:58. > :45:02.was damage to your heart, what changes have you had to make to your

:45:03. > :45:05.life as a result of that? Do you think a day after day, the same

:45:06. > :45:09.thing could happen every day, is that a major worry? I think about

:45:10. > :45:17.that every day. It's made a huge impact. I feel more tired than I

:45:18. > :45:21.used to do. I left it so long to get help because didn't expect it to be

:45:22. > :45:25.anything to do with my heart. That is why I have so much damage. A lot

:45:26. > :45:29.of survivors talk a lot about finding a new normal. I think that

:45:30. > :45:35.summarises it quite well. It is gaining that confidence with your

:45:36. > :45:38.body when you have lost it. And the tiredness is hard. I think, as well,

:45:39. > :45:43.because you look normal, you are young, people don't expect it, when

:45:44. > :45:50.you say you've had a heart attack it is quite a shock to people. It is

:45:51. > :45:51.the adjusting. What changes have you made, Catherine? Yours was 18 years

:45:52. > :46:04.ago. Can you still hear me? Sorry, I didn't get that last bit.

:46:05. > :46:08.Yours was 18 years ago. What changes have you made in your life over

:46:09. > :46:13.those years? Basically, it is a condition I have to manage every

:46:14. > :46:18.day. I do, I take three tablets a day. But I'm careful. I go to the

:46:19. > :46:25.gym. I look after my health. I make sure I have enough rest and sleep.

:46:26. > :46:30.My body will let me know quickly if I'm not getting enough rest. You

:46:31. > :46:35.know, I'm working. I'm a parent advisor now and I really help other

:46:36. > :46:40.parents just to, you know, I have been there when times are very tough

:46:41. > :46:43.and it is very isolating so I really support them with a mentor as well.

:46:44. > :46:49.I live as normal life as possible. OK. Well, thank you for talking to

:46:50. > :46:57.us today and telling us about this condition.

:46:58. > :47:00.With just over two weeks to go before the Dutch election,

:47:01. > :47:02.an anti-Islam politician called Geert Wilders is leading the polls.

:47:03. > :47:30.So why do so many people in this usually liberal country support him?

:47:31. > :47:33.A lot of people call him a racist, but he is not a racist,

:47:34. > :47:36.because he said if you are foreign, you can stay here,

:47:37. > :47:54.The Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, twice.

:47:55. > :48:03.They will not do anything at all, I do not believe them anymore.

:48:04. > :48:16.I hope Geert Wilders will accomplish something.

:48:17. > :48:18.When you are here, you have to accept certain

:48:19. > :48:24.For example, I am gay, I have a boyfriend, I cannot walk

:48:25. > :48:39.I am in a country where I used to be safe.

:48:40. > :48:42.I go for Geert Wilders, because Holland must be a power again.

:48:43. > :48:45.It is not Muslim, it is not every other kind of belief, religion.

:48:46. > :49:01.A lot of politicians disagree with it, but they did not

:49:02. > :49:04.stand up against him, and therefore it has become more

:49:05. > :49:13.More people are starting to believe it, because it is not challenged.

:49:14. > :49:17.A lot of people are going to vote for him, but he will not be

:49:18. > :49:19.the President, because nobody wants to work with him.

:49:20. > :49:37.Downing Street has defended plans to limit access

:49:38. > :49:40.to a key disability benefit, saying that "nobody is losing out".

:49:41. > :49:41.A benefits tribunal had ordered the Government

:49:42. > :49:44.to extend its personal independence payments system to include people

:49:45. > :49:49.The Government says that would add ?3.7 billion to the benefits bill

:49:50. > :50:03.by 2023 and it now intends to change the rules around PIPs instead.

:50:04. > :50:06.George Freeman, a Tory MP and head of the Number Ten policy unit,

:50:07. > :50:08.caused outrage by saying the reason the changes were being made

:50:09. > :50:11.was to make sure benefit payments went to "really disabled people"

:50:12. > :50:16.rather than those "who suffer from anxiety".

:50:17. > :50:21.Looking truth on the disability budget is we spend ?50 billion a

:50:22. > :50:24.year on disability benefits and what we're trying to make sure is we get

:50:25. > :50:31.them to the right people who are most in need. You didn't mention the

:50:32. > :50:34.tweaks are actually to do with rolling back some bizarre decision

:50:35. > :50:37.through the tribunals that mean benefits are being given to people

:50:38. > :50:41.who take pills at home. Who suffer from anxiety. We want to make sure

:50:42. > :50:47.we get the money to really disabled people. The people who need it.

:50:48. > :50:49.Let's talk now to Labour MP and Shadow Work and Pensions

:50:50. > :50:53.And 27 year-old James Downs who receives PIP for severe anxiety,

:50:54. > :50:55.He's also a student at Cambridge University.

:50:56. > :51:02.Alexandra got in touch. She receives PIP for depression and personality

:51:03. > :51:08.disorder. James, the head of Mrs May's policy unit said, "PIP should

:51:09. > :51:13.be for really disabled people." In the past you have had anxiety,

:51:14. > :51:18.depression and OCD and an eating disorder. Is that really disabled? I

:51:19. > :51:23.think these comments really concern me because living with severe mental

:51:24. > :51:28.health problems like I have for over a decade really is not something

:51:29. > :51:30.that's, you know, a small matter. It's something that's really, really

:51:31. > :51:34.serious and eating disorders which is the main thing that I have

:51:35. > :51:37.struggled with, anorexia and bulimia, they have the highest

:51:38. > :51:40.mortality of any mental health problem. This is something that's

:51:41. > :51:44.really serious and in this country people with mental health problems

:51:45. > :51:47.die between ten and 20 years younger than other people. If that's not

:51:48. > :51:50.really a disability then I'm not really sure what is and I think to

:51:51. > :51:53.have this comment coming from somebody so senior in the Government

:51:54. > :51:57.is just really concerning about the attitude that says, you know,

:51:58. > :52:00.physical health problems are real, but mental health problems, they're

:52:01. > :52:03.not really quite as real or deserving of support and we really

:52:04. > :52:07.need to be supporting people with mental health problems because they

:52:08. > :52:11.can recover too and it's a good investment to pay them what's a

:52:12. > :52:15.small amount of money for them to gain their independence and live

:52:16. > :52:18.normal lives. Alexandra what do you think of the

:52:19. > :52:26.comments from the head of Mrs May's policy unit? Oh, I was just

:52:27. > :52:31.absolutely devastated. I honestly felt like I'd been kicked in the

:52:32. > :52:38.teeth. Why? I have currently lived with my condition for 12 years now

:52:39. > :52:42.and I have had ups and downs and then got diagnosed with a brain

:52:43. > :52:47.tumour that's left me with severe daily seizures and I still got taken

:52:48. > :52:53.off the highest rate three months ago to the lowest rate and I'm now

:52:54. > :52:59.trying to live on ?300 a month, getting into debt and I got turned

:53:00. > :53:06.down at the tribunal, I'm now having to go to court. I have letters from

:53:07. > :53:11.my specialist from Sheffield Hospital, from my mental health

:53:12. > :53:17.team, all stating that there is no way I can work currently. I'd love

:53:18. > :53:22.to go back to work. I can't. I'm uninsurable as well which is the

:53:23. > :53:27.medication I'm on. OK. Let me bring James back in. You too went to a

:53:28. > :53:31.tribunal, but you won it. They ruled in your favour saying you should

:53:32. > :53:35.receive enhanced rates of this payment. This is what the Government

:53:36. > :53:41.is now fighting. It doesn't want to give you this. Why do you need this

:53:42. > :53:47.benefit to live a full life? I mean, I need to have the PIP because I use

:53:48. > :53:50.it really to pay for therapy which I have privately. I had a real

:53:51. > :53:55.struggle it get any therapy in the NHS. It took nearly seven years it

:53:56. > :53:58.get any specialist trelt for really severe anorexia because I was too

:53:59. > :54:03.unwell for any treatment which doesn't make much sense to me. But I

:54:04. > :54:07.have had a great damage in my trust with the NHS and I have had pretty

:54:08. > :54:11.much all that they can offer me. So I have to seek therapy and support

:54:12. > :54:15.privately. There is no long-term therapies in the NHS that I'm able

:54:16. > :54:17.to access. It seems to be very short-term interventions and that's

:54:18. > :54:21.not really suitable for a long-term condition like mine which is very

:54:22. > :54:27.complex and entrenched and look a long time to get help. So if I

:54:28. > :54:30.didn't have the PIP I would be really concerned whether I could

:54:31. > :54:33.continue having therapy and all the recovery that I've really worbed

:54:34. > :54:37.hard would be put at risk and I think if therefore, I had a relapse,

:54:38. > :54:42.and was back to going into hospital, into A all the time with low

:54:43. > :54:45.potassium and potential heart failure and mental health crisis

:54:46. > :54:49.with the crisis team having to pick up the piece, that's going to be

:54:50. > :54:52.more expensive than paying me this amount of money to maintain my

:54:53. > :54:58.health. It is a really short-sighted decision. Let me bring in Labour MP,

:54:59. > :55:02.Debbie Abrahams. The Government say they are not cutting PIPs to people

:55:03. > :55:07.who currently get them. So what's the wRob? 164,000 people with

:55:08. > :55:14.chronic mental health conditions will be affected and you're right

:55:15. > :55:19.that's about ?3.7 billion. The Government in 2015 said that

:55:20. > :55:23.psychological distress to Dutch a debilitating extent that it

:55:24. > :55:28.prevented you from going outside your home, undertaking normal, every

:55:29. > :55:33.day activities was a factor that should be considered in the PIP

:55:34. > :55:38.assessment now we're rolling back on this like they did in 2016. PIP is

:55:39. > :55:46.there to help people with their extra costs. Scope estimate that an

:55:47. > :55:50.extra ?550 a month is spent on extra costs for people with disabilities,

:55:51. > :55:55.it may include somebody who may need a support worker to help them get

:55:56. > :55:58.out and have a as normal a life as possible. You mentioned the cost,

:55:59. > :56:04.?3.7 billion, where would Labour find the cash? It's about different

:56:05. > :56:07.decisions, different choice, we heard yesterday that the Resolution

:56:08. > :56:11.Foundation analysis showed that people on a the lowest income have

:56:12. > :56:16.borne the brunt of seven years of austerity compared to people on the

:56:17. > :56:18.highest incomes. Disabled people including people with chronic mental

:56:19. > :56:23.health and other conditions are twice as likely to live in poverty

:56:24. > :56:27.as non disabled people. What sort of society do wet want? We know that

:56:28. > :56:32.this sort of thing can affect anybody. Nine out of ten

:56:33. > :56:38.disabilities are acquired and we as a civilised society need to be doing

:56:39. > :56:41.better. George Freeman, the Conservative MP, the head of Mrs

:56:42. > :56:43.May's policy unit said he thought it was bizarre that claimants with

:56:44. > :56:46.mental health problems or psychological problems who are

:56:47. > :56:53.unable to travel without help should be treated in a similar way to

:56:54. > :56:58.people who are blind. This is about enabling people as I say to live as

:56:59. > :57:02.independently lives as possible. Somebody with a physical impairment

:57:03. > :57:05.will need support in being able to live whether that's help with

:57:06. > :57:09.mobility. Somebody with a mental health condition will also need

:57:10. > :57:14.support to enable them to live as independently as possible. And as I

:57:15. > :57:18.say, you've heard James. I was speaking to one of your team earlier

:57:19. > :57:24.about their own son, about how he was affected and he has ended up

:57:25. > :57:28.moving back in with his parents. This is happening, you know, across

:57:29. > :57:34.the country. James, you want to come back in? I

:57:35. > :57:37.just wanted to comment about the bizarre decision that people with

:57:38. > :57:40.mental health problems might experience difficulties in transport

:57:41. > :57:45.and going out and living their daily lives. I think it's really

:57:46. > :57:49.surprising that even if physically somebody could walk down the road,

:57:50. > :57:53.there is no consideration in the system at the moment of whether

:57:54. > :57:57.psychologically that's actually really difficult and from my

:57:58. > :58:02.experience with eating and going through this process of applying for

:58:03. > :58:07.PIP, I'm physically fit so they thought I could physically prepare a

:58:08. > :58:12.meal, but psychologically I can't do that so easily. There is a really

:58:13. > :58:17.big gap in the way they're assessing this. I agree with that. It

:58:18. > :58:19.contradicts with the Prime Minister herself said that people with mental

:58:20. > :58:25.health conditions needed more support. It contradicts what the

:58:26. > :58:29.Government has said. As others have said around a parity of he is seem.

:58:30. > :58:36.This is not fair and it is disgraceful. Spitfire says, "Anxiety

:58:37. > :58:40.can be just as crippling as being physically disabled in some cases,

:58:41. > :58:44.more." E-mail from Andy, "Mental health issues are disabling.

:58:45. > :58:47.However, they produce physical symptoms that also are disabling. It

:58:48. > :58:52.is just another example of the Government trying to make work pay.

:58:53. > :58:57.It is modern day cruelty." This from Clare, "I have had a life living

:58:58. > :59:01.with the chaos caused by mental illness, symptoms include anxiety

:59:02. > :59:05.for which I take pills at home. This latest behaviour by the Government

:59:06. > :59:07.just shows again how much it says one thing and demonstrates another

:59:08. > :59:11.when it comes to mental health." Thank you. Thank you for coming on

:59:12. > :59:16.the programme. We will continue to report on that. We will see if any

:59:17. > :59:20.decisions are made in the Budget which is not too far away. We will

:59:21. > :59:24.have the latest news and sport in a minute. Before that, here is the

:59:25. > :59:35.weather. Colder than Russia says one newspaper this morning! Just as

:59:36. > :59:40.spring comes! This morning it was minus eight

:59:41. > :59:46.Celsius in some places. We have got clear skies. Some of us have seen

:59:47. > :59:52.snow this morning. Look at these beautiful alpacas in Derbyshire!

:59:53. > :59:56.We have got snow in Cheshire, in Macclesfield and we have had snow

:59:57. > :00:00.this morning and you can see it lying there in Shropshire, but blue

:00:01. > :00:03.skies as well. It has not been snowing everywhere. It was in

:00:04. > :00:08.Cumbria. Look at the cloud here. It is a high feature as we go through

:00:09. > :00:10.the next few hours. Here is the beautiful picture of North

:00:11. > :00:14.Yorkshire. What is happening is we've got this weather front here

:00:15. > :00:18.and it's going to be sinking southwards and eastwards taking its

:00:19. > :00:22.showers with it. As temperatures rise, you will find any snow at low

:00:23. > :00:27.levels will be a thing of the past and it will be a high level feature.

:00:28. > :00:33.Showers coming in across Northern Ireland and Dumfries and Galloway,

:00:34. > :00:37.through parts of Wales and south-west England. The lion's share

:00:38. > :00:41.of the sunshine will be across central parts of Scotland. As we

:00:42. > :00:46.come south, again it will be mostly dry. Maybe just one or two showers.

:00:47. > :00:49.As in the north-west, we will see fight a few showers. South-east

:00:50. > :00:52.England, one or two showers, but through the Midlands and heading

:00:53. > :00:56.towards the South Coast, again we are looking at some of the showers

:00:57. > :00:59.merging. They could be wintry on higher ground. Through the

:01:00. > :01:02.afternoon, although we will see sunshine across south-west England,

:01:03. > :01:09.we're not immune to the showers, neither are we across South Wales.

:01:10. > :01:12.You might see the odd bit of sleet. Northern Ireland, bright spells and

:01:13. > :01:15.sunshine and showers for you. Quite a cloudy afternoon with one or two

:01:16. > :01:20.breaks in Southern Scotland, but it is across the central swathe where

:01:21. > :01:22.we've got the sunshine and the wintry showers persisting across the

:01:23. > :01:26.far north. Through this evening, the first front makes it over to the

:01:27. > :01:29.east and clears off. Another one comes in from the north towards the

:01:30. > :01:32.south. So there will be showers around. Wintry across the far north

:01:33. > :01:36.of Scotland and it's going to be a cold night. These temperatures are

:01:37. > :01:41.indicative of towns and cities. In rural areas they will be lower. So

:01:42. > :01:44.you will have to watch out for ice on untreated surfaces tomorrow

:01:45. > :01:48.morning. But it does mean under the clear skies, a beautiful start for

:01:49. > :01:50.many parts. The wintry showers prevail across Northern Scotland and

:01:51. > :01:54.then we have got a weather front coming in from the south, bringing

:01:55. > :01:57.rain across the Channel Islands and into the south-west of England and

:01:58. > :02:01.Wales and across the Midlands and the South East. Behind that,

:02:02. > :02:05.temperatures will rise, but as it engages with the cooler air we could

:02:06. > :02:08.see snow again on higher ground. Move north of that, we're back into

:02:09. > :02:11.sunny spells and a few showers and some of those will be wint ary.

:02:12. > :02:24.Temperatures five in the far north to 11 Celsius in the far south.

:02:25. > :02:38.Hello it's Tuesday, ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:02:39. > :02:41.Our top story today - the coroner examining

:02:42. > :02:44.Our top story today - the coroner examining the deaths of 30

:02:45. > :02:46.British tourists who were murdered in a terror attack in Tunisia two

:02:47. > :02:48.years ago will begin delivering his conclusions

:02:49. > :02:55.The coroner has just started giving his conclusions. The court is packed

:02:56. > :02:59.with families eager to hear if there will be any repercussions for the

:03:00. > :03:02.holiday company involved to the relatives believe could have done

:03:03. > :03:02.more to prevent the deaths of their loved ones.

:03:03. > :03:05.We'll be live with Ben throughout the programme and we'll get

:03:06. > :03:17.Just stood there with his huge gun. Moving round all the people

:03:18. > :03:21.shooting. Just killing and murdering.

:03:22. > :03:23.Also on the programme - criticism for the police chief

:03:24. > :03:33.who says low-risk paedophiles should not be sent to jail.

:03:34. > :03:41.I am proposing that we have to take a slightly different approach,

:03:42. > :03:44.whereby, and all individuals will still be arrested, but there are

:03:45. > :03:46.alternative solutions rather than putting these people through the

:03:47. > :03:49.court system. Reaction to come. And - two private citizens

:03:50. > :03:51.have paid to be sent around the Moon next year,

:03:52. > :03:53.Apparently they've signed We'll speak to others

:03:54. > :04:04.on the waiting list. Let's go to the BBC Newsroom

:04:05. > :04:13.with a summary of today's news. The coroner at the inquest into the

:04:14. > :04:18.deaths of 30 British tourists in Tunisia is about to deliver his

:04:19. > :04:19.conclusions. An Islamist gunmen carried out the killings at a resort

:04:20. > :04:24.in Sousse in 2015. At the hearing, at the Royal Courts

:04:25. > :04:27.of Justice, the coroner will explain why he has rejected a request

:04:28. > :04:30.by many of the bereaved relatives to rule that neglect contributed

:04:31. > :04:32.to their deaths. A BBC investigation has revealed

:04:33. > :04:34.there were more than 20,000 allegations of abuse made

:04:35. > :04:37.against home care workers over Many of the cases involved

:04:38. > :04:40.neglect but there were also allegations of physical,

:04:41. > :04:42.psychological and sexual abuse. The UK Home Care Association has

:04:43. > :04:44.described the findings as horrifying, but says the system

:04:45. > :04:51.is under extreme pressure. Britain's most senior child

:04:52. > :04:53.protection police officer has said paedophiles who pose no physical

:04:54. > :04:55.threat to children should Simon Bailey said the system had

:04:56. > :05:02.reached 'saturation point', because of the increased reporting

:05:03. > :05:05.of sexual abuse - and that 'lower-level' offending

:05:06. > :05:06.should be decriminalised A doctor in Leicester

:05:07. > :05:17.is investigating why some women suffer from spontaneous heart

:05:18. > :05:27.attacks at a young age. Spontaneous Coronary Artery

:05:28. > :05:29.Dissection is an under-diagnosed condition which can sometimes

:05:30. > :05:30.occur during pregnancy. It usually results in women

:05:31. > :05:32.suffering a heart-attack That's a summary of the latest BBC

:05:33. > :05:44.News - more at 10.30. Becky has texted to say I've tried

:05:45. > :05:48.working for years while having chronic depression. Even though I

:05:49. > :05:51.was heavily medicated I was getting worse due to work and it was

:05:52. > :05:57.detrimental to my colleagues. Now I'm at home taking pills, to use

:05:58. > :06:03.that quote, and more stable, no longer a danger to myself, I am able

:06:04. > :06:06.to be properly medicated which was impossible in the past due to side

:06:07. > :06:09.effects. And an e-mail from Debra, suffering

:06:10. > :06:14.from depression means you are an outcast at work, nobody understands

:06:15. > :06:18.or is interested, they just want happy people chatting about their

:06:19. > :06:23.social lives and seem to despise the person who is depressed and not part

:06:24. > :06:27.of the happy chatting brigade. Making it impossible for people with

:06:28. > :06:29.mental health conditions to be part of the working world.

:06:30. > :06:31.Thank you for those. Do get in touch with us

:06:32. > :06:33.throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:06:34. > :06:36.and if you text, you will be charged Here's some sport now

:06:37. > :06:46.with Katherine Downes. In their first game since sacking

:06:47. > :06:53.manager Claudio Ranieri Leicester City beat Liverpool 3-1 to get their

:06:54. > :06:57.first league win in 2017. Last that the players produced the sort of

:06:58. > :07:01.performance which saw them crowned champions. Before the game fans

:07:02. > :07:05.turned out to honour their sacked manager. Fans walked from the city

:07:06. > :07:10.centre to the stadium to show their gratitude to Claudio Ranieri. It

:07:11. > :07:14.took the removal of their manager for Leicester City to rediscover

:07:15. > :07:19.their form. A great golfer Danny Drinkwater. Two from Jamie Vardy who

:07:20. > :07:22.previously had only scored five so far this season as Leicester City

:07:23. > :07:25.pulled themselves out of the relegation zone.

:07:26. > :07:29.The British boxing board of control has expressed unhappiness at David

:07:30. > :07:32.Haye's comments that Tony Bellew will be risking his life when the

:07:33. > :07:37.pair meet in the ring this weekend. Some flash photography coming up.

:07:38. > :07:40.Tony Bellew has described the sentiment as distasteful and

:07:41. > :07:48.disgusting. The pair came head-to-head again after a press

:07:49. > :07:50.conference in Liverpool yesterday ahead of their fight at the O2 Arena

:07:51. > :07:52.on Saturday. That is all of the sport for now.

:07:53. > :07:55.Back to you, Victoria. A judge at the inquests

:07:56. > :07:57.into the deaths of 30 British people in a terror attack at a Tunisian

:07:58. > :08:00.resort is beginning to lay A total of 38 people were killed

:08:01. > :08:04.when an Islamist gunman opened fire at a hotel in Sousse on 26th

:08:05. > :08:08.June 2015. The inquest examined whether the UK

:08:09. > :08:11.government and travel firms failed to protect British tourists and also

:08:12. > :08:14.looked at whether neglect was a contributory

:08:15. > :08:18.factor in their deaths. Our correspondent Ben Brown

:08:19. > :08:30.is outside the Royal What has been happening?

:08:31. > :08:34.In the last couple of minutes the coroner has started to deliver his

:08:35. > :08:38.conclusions. He has started off with some remarks when he said he will

:08:39. > :08:41.not reach the conclusion that it was neglect that contributed to the

:08:42. > :08:49.deaths of those 30 British tourists in Tunisia. The families of the

:08:50. > :08:59.victims have said that they want criticism of the holiday company,

:09:00. > :09:02.Tui. On a number of counts they believe Tui should have contacted

:09:03. > :09:07.holiday-makers going to Tunisia that there had been an earlier terror

:09:08. > :09:11.attack in the capital of Tunis three months before. And also that the

:09:12. > :09:15.holiday company should have done more to that security at the hotel

:09:16. > :09:22.where the guests were staying, make sure the CCTV cameras were working,

:09:23. > :09:27.and that there were armed guards. The family have also been critical

:09:28. > :09:30.of the Foreign Office's advice, and whether the Foreign Office warning

:09:31. > :09:34.should have been raised to tourists, telling them not to go to Tunisia at

:09:35. > :09:40.all in the wake of the attack at the museum in Tunis in March of 2015

:09:41. > :09:50.were 22 people were killed three months before the attack in Sousse.

:09:51. > :09:54.We are hearing right now from the coroner. We will bring you his

:09:55. > :09:59.conclusions when we get them. I was speaking to the head of the

:10:00. > :10:05.Metropolitan Police counterterrorism command at the time of the attacks

:10:06. > :10:14.when British citizens lost the macrolides. It was the highest death

:10:15. > :10:18.toll from a terror attack since London 77. This was particularly

:10:19. > :10:26.challenging because many of these relatives had been there, of course,

:10:27. > :10:29.in the actual resort themselves. A lot of them had seen their loved

:10:30. > :10:37.ones killed in front of them by the terrorist. Nothing could be more,

:10:38. > :10:41.you know, more serious and more traumatic, really, than that, to see

:10:42. > :10:46.your loved one actually killed in a terrorist attack. That is why this

:10:47. > :10:50.was particularly difficult. And particularly challenging for some of

:10:51. > :10:53.the officers dealing with the families. Should and could the

:10:54. > :10:58.Tunisians have done more to protect that stretch of beach and hotels,

:10:59. > :11:03.that hotel, and other hotels like it? Could this attack have been

:11:04. > :11:05.prevented? The attack could have only been prevented by good

:11:06. > :11:09.intelligence and arresting perpetrators before they actually

:11:10. > :11:13.carried out the attack. Once the attack is happening and started,

:11:14. > :11:19.obviously people are going to die, sadly. But measures can be taken to

:11:20. > :11:23.reduce the impact of terrorist attacks. Whether those measures

:11:24. > :11:28.could actually have reduced the numbers of people killed is an open

:11:29. > :11:32.question. Once the attack started it went on for a long time. The gunman

:11:33. > :11:36.was able to act freely for a long time without being stopped. What do

:11:37. > :11:43.you think of the Tunisian police response to what happened? The

:11:44. > :11:47.Tunisian police response, you know, could have been better. It is easy

:11:48. > :11:51.in hindsight to be very critical as to how they responded. But on the

:11:52. > :11:58.face of it, it did seem like a slow response. And a faster response may

:11:59. > :12:04.have helped save lives. What should be in place at resorts like that? If

:12:05. > :12:11.not to stop an attack happening to make sure the gunman, or gunman, are

:12:12. > :12:20.not free to run around that period of time? There are pleasures hotels

:12:21. > :12:24.-- there are measures hotels can put in place. CCTV, better training for

:12:25. > :12:30.staff, so that the response is faster and more professional. You

:12:31. > :12:35.can tail top terrorist incidents. You can train and equip staff to be

:12:36. > :12:41.prepared for it. And that can help when an attack actually occurs. But,

:12:42. > :12:44.obviously, as I stress, you know, those measures would not

:12:45. > :12:50.necessarily, in this instance, have reduced the number of lives that

:12:51. > :12:54.were lost. But if you had more armed guards, more officers on patrol

:12:55. > :13:01.around the hotels, around the beaches, surely they could have

:13:02. > :13:04.intercepted that man. At resorts in places of the world where the threat

:13:05. > :13:09.is highest, where the terror threat is very high, armed guards and armed

:13:10. > :13:20.police in the locality can help in terms of response. It is easy in

:13:21. > :13:25.hindsight to say these things. An attack happening with so many lives

:13:26. > :13:28.lost. But it is important the hotels have an understanding of the threat,

:13:29. > :13:33.the local threat, as well as the regional and global threat. That was

:13:34. > :13:37.Richard Walton, who was head of the Met police's counterterrorism

:13:38. > :13:46.department at the time of the attack. You have been covering the

:13:47. > :13:49.whole inquests. It is important for the families, what the coroner says

:13:50. > :13:57.today, because they are considering litigation against the holiday

:13:58. > :14:03.company involved, Tui. He isn't going to consider that issue of a

:14:04. > :14:07.claim of neglect. That is clear. It isn't unexpected. The coroner

:14:08. > :14:11.intimated that is what he would say last week. Essentially, the

:14:12. > :14:20.barrister for the families of those killed, last week accused Tui of

:14:21. > :14:26.gross neglect. One part was about the whole issue of security at the

:14:27. > :14:30.hotel. That Tui hadn't carried out a security audit of it, even though

:14:31. > :14:34.there had been these previous attacks. He pushed hard for that.

:14:35. > :14:40.The coroner rejected it. And the barrister for Tui denied it and said

:14:41. > :14:45.there was no basis of a claim for that. Now, my understanding is that

:14:46. > :14:50.at least 22 families of those killed will take this up in the civil

:14:51. > :14:57.court. They will put claims in for damages, personal injury, and fatal

:14:58. > :15:01.accident and want to take on Tui in that way. The families here

:15:02. > :15:05.listening to the conclusions, the last few weeks has been harrowing.

:15:06. > :15:11.Listening again. And in some cases talking to the inquest about how

:15:12. > :15:15.their loved ones died. It has been extraordinary. I think a lot of the

:15:16. > :15:21.survivors, and the people whose husbands, wives, brothers, were

:15:22. > :15:25.killed were incredibly brave. They stood up and gave evidence. One

:15:26. > :15:32.woman in particular who lost her father, her brother, and her oldest

:15:33. > :15:35.son, standing up and basically describing their macrolides. Very,

:15:36. > :15:44.very, very difficult. Hugely emotional. -- their lives. It was

:15:45. > :15:48.impossible not to shed a tear. Very difficult for them. Something that

:15:49. > :15:52.has emerged is the behaviour of the Tunisian security forces. The

:15:53. > :15:56.inquest had been hearing how they delayed their arrival at the scene

:15:57. > :16:00.for so long. It was three quarters of an hour, more or less, before

:16:01. > :16:04.armed Tunisian police got to the scene and killed the gunman. This

:16:05. > :16:10.was one of the most important pieces of evidence given during the

:16:11. > :16:16.inquest. It came from a Tunisian investigation by a Tunisian judge.

:16:17. > :16:22.That report was summarised. We heard it in the inquest. It was totally

:16:23. > :16:26.extraordinary. There was a Tunisian police unit armed with automatic

:16:27. > :16:29.weapons, with body armour, in a four by four vehicle, who were literally

:16:30. > :16:34.minutes, maybe just about three minutes away, from the site of the

:16:35. > :16:38.attack at the time of the attack beginning. What did they do? They

:16:39. > :16:42.did not move towards the attack to try and take up the gunman, they

:16:43. > :16:46.went in the opposite direction. They claimed they needed more weapons and

:16:47. > :16:51.more body armour. They had those weapons, they had magazines with

:16:52. > :16:55.ammunition, they had body armour and helmets. They could have gone in.

:16:56. > :17:00.They didn't. One of their officers was quoted as saying that this was

:17:01. > :17:04.an act of simple cowardice. Other units did the same thing. There was

:17:05. > :17:08.a unit on a quad bike. There was a unit with armed policemen on

:17:09. > :17:13.horseback. They will one kilometre further away. They could have got

:17:14. > :17:17.there quickly. They didn't. The judge in the Tunisian conclusion was

:17:18. > :17:23.that they deliberately slowed down and only arrived after it was far

:17:24. > :17:28.too late. Thanks very much. We will be hearing the coroner's conclusions

:17:29. > :17:30.in the next few minutes. The families listening out for any

:17:31. > :17:39.criticism implied or otherwise from the coroner of the holiday company,

:17:40. > :17:43.Tui, but also of the Foreign Office their travel advice, and also of the

:17:44. > :17:46.Tunisian security forces, as well. That's the latest from the royal

:17:47. > :17:48.court of justice. Olivia Leathley spent nearly two

:17:49. > :17:50.hours barricaded in an office after fleeing the sound

:17:51. > :18:00.of machine gunfire outside. I want to talk about what you

:18:01. > :18:04.learned from the inquest. A lot of information was new to you, like

:18:05. > :18:10.what, for example? I'm actually slightly in shock. I've just heard

:18:11. > :18:22.the recent summary from the coroner. I can't believe it. I can't believe

:18:23. > :18:26.they were so close. We were lucky. All of those families and friends

:18:27. > :18:31.who lost that many people and they were that close. The police

:18:32. > :18:35.officers. The Tunisian hotel employees were standing in front of

:18:36. > :18:41.people they'd never even met and they showed more bravery than people

:18:42. > :18:47.who had something to fight back with. And I'm just... I am just at a

:18:48. > :18:52.loss at the moment. It has come as a complete shock. And you had no idea

:18:53. > :19:00.until the inquest. I had no clue, really, about... Could it have been

:19:01. > :19:03.prevented? I don't think any terror attack is ever going to be

:19:04. > :19:11.preventable and that is the sad truth. Some are. There are things I

:19:12. > :19:16.didn't learn about until today. I was hoping from the inquest that

:19:17. > :19:20.precautions would be put in place. Better protocol. Better training for

:19:21. > :19:25.staff. More information for tourists about what to do. That is what I was

:19:26. > :19:29.hoping to come from the inquest and hopefully some closure for the

:19:30. > :19:36.families. I cannot believe they turned around and drove away. I

:19:37. > :19:41.really hope they cannot live with themselves because there are people

:19:42. > :19:44.who are not alive now. It could not have been prevented in your view,

:19:45. > :19:51.but British tourists could have been better protected. Yes, I think so.

:19:52. > :19:56.We were aware there has been a previous attack in the capital. We

:19:57. > :20:01.did read up on things and find out what was going on. But we thought

:20:02. > :20:07.because we are here, so far away from the capital it'll be fine, you

:20:08. > :20:10.know, but I was just hoping that there would be better security

:20:11. > :20:16.measures put in place after something like this. Families who

:20:17. > :20:23.lost relatives wanted the coroner to say today their loved one, it was

:20:24. > :20:28.the conclusion of unlawful killing, with neglect. The coroner has made

:20:29. > :20:32.it clear he isn't going to say that neglect was a contributing factor.

:20:33. > :20:36.What do you think about that? It has got to be the most impossible

:20:37. > :20:44.situation for those families. They need to find somebody culpable. They

:20:45. > :20:49.need to be able to get some closure. And I believe that, unfortunately,

:20:50. > :21:00.we cannot put that man on trial. We cannot watch him the punished to the

:21:01. > :21:04.full extent of the law. We cannot find peace and closure in that. It

:21:05. > :21:14.is awful that we cannot do that. It is awful that he got away with it,

:21:15. > :21:18.in a sense. We are lucky we are still here. I just hope that

:21:19. > :21:22.throughout all of these court proceedings, and things that they

:21:23. > :21:35.are doing, that it is quick and easy and they get their results and the

:21:36. > :21:40.closure they need. We will get more from Ben Brown who was outside the

:21:41. > :21:43.Royal Courts of Justice. Prison officers at jails in England and

:21:44. > :21:47.Wales are taking part in industrial action again from tomorrow in a

:21:48. > :21:53.dispute over pay and pensions. We will bring you more on that. And low

:21:54. > :21:59.risk paedophiles who view indecent images of child sexual abuse should

:22:00. > :22:03.not be prosecuted, according to Simon Bailey, unless they pose a

:22:04. > :22:07.physical threat to children. Simon Bailey, the National police chief's

:22:08. > :22:11.lead on child protection says people who are not in contact with children

:22:12. > :22:18.and have been looking at what he calls "Low-level images" online

:22:19. > :22:23.should be cautioned, rehabilitated, and put on the sex offenders

:22:24. > :22:28.register. So, he says, the police can focus on the most dangerous

:22:29. > :22:34.paedophiles. I think there is a clear message that I'm giving today.

:22:35. > :22:39.The police service working with the National crime agency has never been

:22:40. > :22:44.so robust in this field. We are arresting over 400 men every month.

:22:45. > :22:49.We are safeguarding over 500 children every month as a result of

:22:50. > :22:55.targeting those people who we view -- who view indecent images of

:22:56. > :22:58.children. Fact is, we are becoming inundated with the amount of

:22:59. > :23:03.referrals you having to deal with, and the number of cases which our

:23:04. > :23:07.child protection teams are having to cope with. We have sophisticated

:23:08. > :23:11.risk assessment tools that I am as confident as I can beat will be able

:23:12. > :23:16.to determine whether or not an individual poses a risk of contact

:23:17. > :23:19.abusing a child. And when you look at the number of resources we now

:23:20. > :23:24.have working within this field, you look at the numbers we are having to

:23:25. > :23:30.deal with, I am proposing that we have to take a slightly different

:23:31. > :23:34.approach whereby and all the individuals will still be arrested.

:23:35. > :23:37.But there are alternative solutions, rather than putting these people

:23:38. > :23:43.through the courts system who are now dealing with between 40 and 50%

:23:44. > :23:47.of their time on allegations of sexual abuse, unfortunately. Cases

:23:48. > :23:51.are taking too long to get to court. We must look at an alternative

:23:52. > :23:55.whereby those individuals we assessed as posing little risk to

:23:56. > :23:59.children of contact abuse have to attain some sort -- attend some sort

:24:00. > :24:05.of rehabilitation course. Have to attend a course whereby they are

:24:06. > :24:10.educated as to the impact of their abuse and their offending and they

:24:11. > :24:14.are not then put into the justice system itself. The Home Office have

:24:15. > :24:18.responded by saying downloading and viewing child abuse images is a

:24:19. > :24:26.terrible crime and should be treated as such. Let's get reaction from the

:24:27. > :24:29.chair and co-founder of a specialist treatment organisation for the

:24:30. > :24:33.prevention of sexual offending and Nigel O'Mara who experienced abuse

:24:34. > :24:41.as a child and now runs the East Midlands survivalist group who have

:24:42. > :24:45.-- for people who have been abused. What is your reaction? We need to

:24:46. > :24:51.think about what will be the most effective way to prevent child abuse

:24:52. > :24:54.from happening. What is happening is we have a UK wide network of

:24:55. > :25:06.therapists who can see anybody who feels at risk of anybody who has

:25:07. > :25:11.committed a crime of any kind. As well as preventing further crimes,

:25:12. > :25:16.we are also some instances, able to stop the first crime. As your other

:25:17. > :25:19.guest knows, the consequences of child sexual abuse are horrendous.

:25:20. > :25:22.We all need to doing everything we can to try and reduce and stop child

:25:23. > :25:34.abuse in the UK. But if you are simply viewing images

:25:35. > :25:38.of child sexual abuse, you have not had physical contact with a child,

:25:39. > :25:44.then you should receive a caution, rather than the full sanctions of

:25:45. > :25:49.the law, do you agree? They would be on the sex offenders register.

:25:50. > :25:54.Cautioned and on the sex offenders register. So, not charged with

:25:55. > :26:02.desertion of all viewing indecent images. The question is, there are

:26:03. > :26:15.750,000 men in the UK with a sexual interest in children, according to

:26:16. > :26:23.the Statistics. We can't lock them all up. 750,002

:26:24. > :26:27.86,000 doesn't go. We have defined another solution. Provided it is

:26:28. > :26:34.effective, it might be a good way to go forward. Do you believe people

:26:35. > :26:42.who view indecent images of children being abused can then go on to abuse

:26:43. > :26:47.children? I believe they can and I believe they do. And I also believe

:26:48. > :26:54.that we are not really looking at the real issue here. The real issue

:26:55. > :26:58.is, over the last 30 years, the police have failed survivors, and

:26:59. > :27:01.the reason we have the backlog and the cases coming to court now is

:27:02. > :27:07.because they asked Art in to act on something that they should have

:27:08. > :27:14.acted on 30 years ago. I agree with the lady that prevention is the best

:27:15. > :27:19.tool we have got, and they are one of the best people doing it. The

:27:20. > :27:25.fact is, this is a problem that we have built into the system for 30

:27:26. > :27:28.years. You would accept that police have made a lot of progress when it

:27:29. > :27:39.comes to dealing with the survivors of sexual abuse, and they are, they

:27:40. > :27:43.say, overwhelmed now, which is why Simon Bailey has suggested this.

:27:44. > :27:48.They are overwhelmed because they have failed to act for so many

:27:49. > :27:52.years. That may be so, but they are still overwhelmed and can't deal

:27:53. > :27:56.with people who are physically and sexually abusing children now, which

:27:57. > :28:02.is why Mr Bailey is suggesting that those who simply view, simply is my

:28:03. > :28:06.work, simply view images of children being abused should be treated with

:28:07. > :28:10.a caution, rather than charged and taken through the criminal justice

:28:11. > :28:15.system. Every image of a child being abused means that a child has been

:28:16. > :28:19.abused, whether you are viewing it or whether you have committed the

:28:20. > :28:25.act yourself, by viewing it you are creating the market for it. Those

:28:26. > :28:37.people should therefore face serious commercial sanctions. If the police

:28:38. > :28:42.can't cope in... then what? If the police can't do their job, then they

:28:43. > :28:48.need to be funded properly and properly resourced to be able to do

:28:49. > :28:51.their job. But the fact that these offences are occurring doesn't

:28:52. > :28:56.change, just because you decriminalise a part of it. It means

:28:57. > :29:04.that those people who are abused in that situation then have no recourse

:29:05. > :29:07.in law. Can I come in? It is important not to decriminalise the

:29:08. > :29:13.viewing of child abuse images. I agree, for every image that is

:29:14. > :29:16.created, a child has been harmed. I wouldn't suggest that we

:29:17. > :29:22.decriminalise that. What I would suggest is, we offer therapy. My

:29:23. > :29:26.experience is that therapy can be incredibly effective in stopping

:29:27. > :29:31.people having the desire to act out, because many of the people we are

:29:32. > :29:34.working with and offering therapy to in the community have themselves

:29:35. > :29:39.been the victim of some kind of trauma in their history. Thank you

:29:40. > :29:46.both. We appreciate your time. This e-mail from the wheeze, as a victim

:29:47. > :29:54.of serial abuse since the age of four up to 13, -- Louise, I find

:29:55. > :29:57.Simon Bailey's suggestion of giving leniency to paedophiles viewing

:29:58. > :30:00.online abuse as appalling. A paedophile does not care about the

:30:01. > :30:07.victim, whether they are in contact with them. "I Have worked in a

:30:08. > :30:11.secure hospital with paedophiles, they cannot be counselled to leave

:30:12. > :30:15.their perversion behind them. Every of them today was thinking about who

:30:16. > :30:23.and which sex their next victim would be. That them going". There is

:30:24. > :30:28.no low risk paedophiles. They start at a low level and quickly move on

:30:29. > :30:32.to abusing children. A senior policeman asked me if a paedophile

:30:33. > :30:34.can be rehabilitated. No is the answer. Thank you very much for

:30:35. > :30:36.this. Families of the 30

:30:37. > :30:39.Britons killed in a terror attack at a Tunisian resort are hearing

:30:40. > :30:42.the conclusions of an inquest We'll bring you all the latest live

:30:43. > :30:46.from outside the court and will also be speaking

:30:47. > :30:48.to the Tunisian And a plan by a US aerospace

:30:49. > :30:54.company to fly two private If the mission goes ahead

:30:55. > :30:58.as planned in late 2018, humans will be returning to deep

:30:59. > :31:01.space for the first time With the News here's Annita

:31:02. > :31:13.in the BBC Newsroom. The coroner at the inquests

:31:14. > :31:17.into the deaths of thirty British tourists in Tunisia

:31:18. > :31:19.is delivering his conclusions. An Islamist gunman

:31:20. > :31:21.carried out the killings at a resort near Sousse,

:31:22. > :31:23.in June 2015. The coroner is also due to explain

:31:24. > :31:28.why he has rejected a request by some relatives to rule that

:31:29. > :31:31.neglect by the travel firm TUI Some of the families involved have

:31:32. > :31:35.told the BBC that they are planning to take their case against TUI

:31:36. > :31:38.to the civil courts. A BBC investigation has revealed

:31:39. > :31:42.there were more than 20,000 allegations of abuse made

:31:43. > :31:44.against home care workers over Many of the cases involved neglect,

:31:45. > :31:51.but there were also allegations of physical,

:31:52. > :31:53.psychological and sexual abuse. The UK Home Care Association has

:31:54. > :31:55.described the findings as horrifying, but says the system

:31:56. > :32:01.is under extreme pressure. Britain's most senior child

:32:02. > :32:06.protection police officer has said paedophiles who pose no physical

:32:07. > :32:09.threat to children should Simon Bailey said the system

:32:10. > :32:16.had reached "saturation point", because of the increased

:32:17. > :32:25.reporting of sexual abuse, and he says that what he calls

:32:26. > :32:27."lower-level" offending should be decriminalised

:32:28. > :32:29.in favour of rehabilitation. The Prison Officers' Association has

:32:30. > :32:31.announced more industrial action Members are being told

:32:32. > :32:35.to withdraw from voluntary duties An overtime ban will also

:32:36. > :32:38.be phased in from April. But the Ministry of Justice says

:32:39. > :32:41.the action is unlawful and has warned the POA it will be taken

:32:42. > :32:43.to court if it goes ahead. That is a summary of the latest

:32:44. > :32:54.news. Join me at 11am. Katherine's here now

:32:55. > :33:05.with the sports headlines. This was the pick the goals last

:33:06. > :33:10.night, Leicester beat Liverpool. Leicester winning their first game

:33:11. > :33:14.since the dismissal of manager Claudio Ranieri. The fans organised

:33:15. > :33:18.a march of celebration to thank Ranieri for all he had achieved. The

:33:19. > :33:22.British boxing board of control has expressed unhappiness at David

:33:23. > :33:28.Haye's comments that Tony Bellew would be risking his life.

:33:29. > :33:31.Tony Bellew described the comments as distasteful. The pair came head

:33:32. > :33:36.to head again at a press conference in Liverpool yesterday.

:33:37. > :33:40.World rugby says it is too early to speculate whether there will be a

:33:41. > :33:43.rule change after Italy's tactics in their six Nations defeat to England

:33:44. > :33:51.on Sunday. There was confusion among the England team. That is all the

:33:52. > :33:54.sport for now. Back to you, Victoria.

:33:55. > :33:57.A judge at the inquests into the deaths of 30 British people

:33:58. > :34:00.in a terror attack at a Tunisian resort is setting

:34:01. > :34:13.In the past few minutes, he's said the response to the attack

:34:14. > :34:18.was at best shambolic and at worst cowardly.

:34:19. > :34:22.Fill us in. The quote you just read was very strong indeed from the

:34:23. > :34:31.koruna. The Tunisian security forces, we

:34:32. > :34:38.heard during the inquest how an armed patrol who had a salt --

:34:39. > :34:42.bustled rivals, they tried not to intercept the gunmen, because they

:34:43. > :34:47.wanted to get more weapons from the local police patient. He said their

:34:48. > :34:51.response had been, at best shambolic and at worst cowardly. The word

:34:52. > :34:56.cowardice was heard earlier on in the inquest. What the families are

:34:57. > :35:08.looking for is criticism of the holiday company TUI. They wanted the

:35:09. > :35:11.coroner to reach a conclusion of neglect that contributed to the

:35:12. > :35:15.deaths of their loved ones. He said he could not do that. Neglect was

:35:16. > :35:21.not a verdict open to him, because that would have meant gross failure

:35:22. > :35:29.by the company involved, in terms of checking the hotel security. Richard

:35:30. > :35:34.Galpin has been covering the inquest all the way through for the last six

:35:35. > :35:43.weeks. On the point of neglect, Richard, this is the key. This is

:35:44. > :35:47.the families and relatives of the victims, they may well take

:35:48. > :35:50.litigation, civil claims for financial compensation from the

:35:51. > :35:54.holiday company. What the coroner says is important to them. It may

:35:55. > :35:59.have an impact on their ability to bring those claims, or to win those

:36:00. > :36:04.claims, the fact that the coroner here has set aside, saying it is not

:36:05. > :36:09.possible to say, for gross failures you have to prove that. You also

:36:10. > :36:13.have to prove a high wrecked cars or link between the failure and deaths

:36:14. > :36:17.of those people who were killed in that attack. That is very difficult

:36:18. > :36:23.to do. They don't really have the evidence to be able to do that. My

:36:24. > :36:30.understanding from the barrister of the families. They will be looking

:36:31. > :36:35.for more evidence when they go through that process in the civil

:36:36. > :36:45.courts. They will want to find more evidence and witnesses. We must

:36:46. > :36:52.stress, TUI strongly denies any neglect or failures. One of the

:36:53. > :36:58.points the coroner has been referring to is whether there should

:36:59. > :37:03.have been more guards at the hotel where the 30 British citizens lost

:37:04. > :37:07.their lives. For example, he was saying, the question about armed

:37:08. > :37:11.guards is limited by Tunisian firearms laws. It would be difficult

:37:12. > :37:15.for them to have armed guards. It is not impossible. It is possible to

:37:16. > :37:22.get a license to do it, but clearly they weren't at the hotel. There

:37:23. > :37:28.were only three guards there on the day. They weren't trained. They

:37:29. > :37:32.didn't even have walkie-talkies. One supposed guard was on the beach. The

:37:33. > :37:37.barrister for the families was saying he was the guy that handed

:37:38. > :37:41.out the cushions for the guys to sit on sunbeds. Not only did he not have

:37:42. > :37:46.a walkie-talkie, he didn't have a phone to communicate at all. It was,

:37:47. > :37:50.as the judge said, utterly shambolic. Questions about the CCTV

:37:51. > :37:55.cameras in the Hotel as well. Whether all of that taken together,

:37:56. > :38:01.if there had been good CCTV and a good number of guards, that might

:38:02. > :38:06.have been a deterrent, so the gunmen might not have attacked in the first

:38:07. > :38:11.place. Yes, the key point is, we heard evidence in the inquest that

:38:12. > :38:16.the terrorist cell responsible for the attack had carried out

:38:17. > :38:24.reconnaissance on the Hotel prior. They deemed it to be an easy target.

:38:25. > :38:28.So there is definitely that element, but still it is not enough to

:38:29. > :38:32.persuade the judge to include neglect, there is the need for the

:38:33. > :38:37.gross failure. To establish it, it would have made a difference with

:38:38. > :38:42.CCTV, and it is difficult to establish. The strongest words have

:38:43. > :38:47.come about the Tunisian security forces, at best shambolic, at worst

:38:48. > :38:51.cowardly. Strong criticism. I am not surprised, given what we heard from

:38:52. > :38:55.the investigation carried out by the Tunisian authorities. One group of

:38:56. > :39:01.armed policeman effectively running away. They didn't go to the scene of

:39:02. > :39:06.the attack, which is their job. Their role was to protect two

:39:07. > :39:13.arrests in these resorts. They ran back, driving back to the

:39:14. > :39:16.headquarters, come armed spent eight minutes inside the police

:39:17. > :39:22.headquarters -- the commander spent eight minutes. The whole thing was a

:39:23. > :39:27.deliberate delaying tactic, because they were terrified. To be fair, in

:39:28. > :39:31.some respects, there is no excuse, of course, but they had no idea how

:39:32. > :39:36.many people were involved in the attack. Maybe they felt there were

:39:37. > :39:41.three or four different gunmen, and couldn't take them on, but it is not

:39:42. > :39:46.an excuse. OK, Richard. Thank you. The inquest heard that the armed

:39:47. > :39:49.police could have been at the scene within three minutes, but it was

:39:50. > :39:55.almost three quarters of an hour before they finally intercepted and

:39:56. > :40:01.killed the gunmen who had, by that time, already slaughtered 38 people,

:40:02. > :40:06.30 of them British. The worst attack on British citizens, the worst

:40:07. > :40:12.terror attack since the seventh July 2000 and five. The coroner is

:40:13. > :40:19.continuing to deliver his conclusions. We will bring you more

:40:20. > :40:29.as we get it. -- seventh July 2000 and five. The simple and tragic...

:40:30. > :40:33.the police response should and could have been effective, says the

:40:34. > :40:39.coroner this morning, he has not found a direct and causal link, he

:40:40. > :40:44.said, between the response of armed officers in the area, and the

:40:45. > :40:47.deaths. He is more detail about how the day unfolded. The

:40:48. > :40:57.a gunmen enters a holiday resort in Tunisia and opens fire.

:40:58. > :41:04.Holiday-makers flee across the sand. For half an hour, he is able to roam

:41:05. > :41:11.across the beach, enter the Hotel, seeking out and systematically

:41:12. > :41:15.killing innocent tourists. 38 people died, 30 were British. The biggest

:41:16. > :41:21.loss of British life in a terror attack since the London 7-7

:41:22. > :41:25.bombings. So-called Islamic State said it was behind the attack,

:41:26. > :41:31.carried out by a Tunisian student. Those who survived recall the horror

:41:32. > :41:36.of what happened that day. I just stood there, he had this huge gun.

:41:37. > :41:50.Moving around all the people, shooting. Killing and murdering...

:41:51. > :41:55.I just had my headphones on, and I heard some sounds. I thought,

:41:56. > :41:59.fireworks, like everyone else did. I turned and looked, my wife on the

:42:00. > :42:05.sunbed next to me, and she was already off the sunbed, running in

:42:06. > :42:10.that direction. I decided to run straight down the beach. Into the

:42:11. > :42:18.sea. I could still hear everything still going on. You never forget

:42:19. > :42:21.that sound. Now a coroner's inquest has heard what factors could have

:42:22. > :42:29.contributed to the attack. One key area is the Foreign Office's travel

:42:30. > :42:34.advice. Three months after being targeted, it did not specifically

:42:35. > :42:38.advised holiday-makers against going to Tunisia. Instead, advice on its

:42:39. > :42:45.website stated further attacks are possible. A senior Foreign Office

:42:46. > :42:49.official has defended position. Part or most of the attack could have

:42:50. > :43:00.been prevented by tighter security with tour operated TUI.

:43:01. > :43:06.Some steps were taken by the firm to keep guests say. The inquest also

:43:07. > :43:13.heard there was an unjustifiable delay by Tunisian law enforcement

:43:14. > :43:19.units with some units taking 30 minutes longer than they should have

:43:20. > :43:26.to reach the scene. It heard this was due to "Simple cowardice".

:43:27. > :43:27.The Foreign Office now advises against all but essential travel to

:43:28. > :43:29.Tunisia. We can talk now to Nabil Ammar,

:43:30. > :43:31.the Tunisian Ambassador Colin Bidwell is back with us,

:43:32. > :43:36.he was on the beach with his wife He was shot at and

:43:37. > :43:39.grazed by two bullets. And Richard Barrett is the former

:43:40. > :43:41.head of counter-terrorism at MI6, and now the director

:43:42. > :43:44.of the Global Strategy Network, which works with governments

:43:45. > :43:55.and international organisations What do you think of the Foreign

:43:56. > :44:04.Office's current advice that all but essential travel to your country is

:44:05. > :44:11.the latest advice? I think it is too tough. It does not reflect the

:44:12. > :44:16.correct situation on the ground. There have been a lot of

:44:17. > :44:19.improvements brought to Tunisian security services. And more

:44:20. > :44:26.important than that, the whole country is much better prepared to

:44:27. > :44:32.struggle against terrorism. So there is a new context in Tunisia, and we

:44:33. > :44:35.would ask you to take into account this new context. What happened in

:44:36. > :44:40.Tunisia could have happened everywhere in the world, including

:44:41. > :44:46.in the most sophisticated countries with the most specialised and

:44:47. > :44:51.sophisticated security services. It has happened, actually. Not that it

:44:52. > :44:58.could happen, it has happened already. We are only asking to be

:44:59. > :45:03.treated fairly according to what is the situation on the ground. You may

:45:04. > :45:07.know that we are between the US and UK when it comes to international

:45:08. > :45:13.threats and terrorism. We do not understand why we are banned when we

:45:14. > :45:19.should not be and should be supported. Let's bring in Richard

:45:20. > :45:24.Barrett, does the ambassador have a fair point? I think it is true,

:45:25. > :45:35.terrorism can happen anywhere. Terrorists go. At targets. -- for

:45:36. > :45:42.soft targets. But the advice at the moment is not to say to British

:45:43. > :45:45.people, only go to Paris for essential business, or only go to

:45:46. > :45:52.Brussels for essential business. Exactly. And in London, too. Let's

:45:53. > :46:08.not forget, That's the case in 2015? Yes. The

:46:09. > :46:11.fact of the matter is, there is a preparedness which tends to mitigate

:46:12. > :46:14.these attacks. If a terrorist sees that there is some protection around

:46:15. > :46:17.a target they will go on and move elsewhere, but I think if you just

:46:18. > :46:21.knock it down the road to the next hotel, you haven't really gained

:46:22. > :46:26.anything very much as a country. So I think for Tunisia and other

:46:27. > :46:30.countries which are prime destinations particularly for

:46:31. > :46:33.western tourists they have to have a whole area of protection which is

:46:34. > :46:39.enormously expensive and if you lay it on too thick I guess it puts

:46:40. > :46:46.tourists off as well. I wonder if you think with the deaths of 38, the

:46:47. > :46:52.murders of 38 people that day, the fact that your tourist industry has

:46:53. > :46:56.been hit and countries like the UK, advising people only to go to

:46:57. > :47:02.Tunisia unless it is essential that the terrorists have won? Yes. This

:47:03. > :47:07.is the wrong message to deliver to them. It is not all the countries

:47:08. > :47:12.that are banning Tunisia from travel. They have their own

:47:13. > :47:19.citizens. We do protect our citizens as well. We are very conscious and

:47:20. > :47:24.anxious about the security for our own people as we are for our guests

:47:25. > :47:28.so we are not wanting tourists to come back again at any cost. We are

:47:29. > :47:32.saying that there have been a lot of improvements that have to be taken

:47:33. > :47:36.into account. Zero risk doesn't exist anywhere. If we are really

:47:37. > :47:39.serious about struggling against terrorism which is an international

:47:40. > :47:49.problem that we have not cre crit add, we have not created the

:47:50. > :47:54.ideology, they didn't train in Tunisia. So they need ideology and

:47:55. > :47:58.money and we are not responsible. When it comes to the chain of

:47:59. > :48:05.responsibility, I would appeal to all the wise people to all those who

:48:06. > :48:11.really want to know about the truth, and to go through the chain of

:48:12. > :48:19.responsibility until they detect who is responsible. But we, Tunisians

:48:20. > :48:24.are apooling to our friends to show more solidarity with us to struggle

:48:25. > :48:28.with us, our security is part of their security. Let me bring in

:48:29. > :48:32.Colin who was on the beach that day when the attack happened. How do you

:48:33. > :48:38.react to what the coroner has said so far that the response from the

:48:39. > :48:43.police at that time was at best sham bottle k and at worst cowardly?

:48:44. > :48:46.Well, think that's been common knowledge before today anyway. With

:48:47. > :48:51.some of the findings on some particular television programmes. I

:48:52. > :48:58.mean I must say... Well, it is now official. The only thing I will say.

:48:59. > :49:01.How do you respond to that? Well, I still think it is a little bit of

:49:02. > :49:05.everyone. I don't think anyone is particularly to blame and this is

:49:06. > :49:08.just my opinion, but I must say the Tunisian people on the day and the

:49:09. > :49:12.way they looked after the injured and everything was, you know, first

:49:13. > :49:16.class, you know, they have nothing to give, but they gave us

:49:17. > :49:19.everything. So well, it is the Security Services that were at

:49:20. > :49:24.fault. It is the armed police patrols. It is not the Tunisian

:49:25. > :49:29.people. That's what the coroner is talking about, you know, the armed

:49:30. > :49:35.police patrol just three minutes away... Yes. Instead of going

:49:36. > :49:37.towards those who were injured and dead, actually decided to go in the

:49:38. > :49:42.opposite direction to a police station to get more weapons. A lot

:49:43. > :49:46.of people who visited the area know there is around they are just around

:49:47. > :49:50.the corner with some armed police and how they didn't get there, I

:49:51. > :49:54.don't know, but obviously the more it develops, the more we will find

:49:55. > :49:59.out. I don't think Tunisia as a country should be punished. Richard

:50:00. > :50:02.as, as a former professional, what do you think of that behaviour by

:50:03. > :50:06.those armed police officers? Well, I think it is lack of preparedness and

:50:07. > :50:11.it is lack of practise, you know, in this country for example, in and in

:50:12. > :50:15.many other countries and I'm sure in Tunisia too, people do drills, you

:50:16. > :50:19.know and plan and prepare for such an incident as this. Fortunately, it

:50:20. > :50:28.is very, very rare, but when it happens, like in Sousse in June of

:50:29. > :50:31.2015, I mean, you know, it's a very, very dramatic incident and everybody

:50:32. > :50:34.says we should have been doing morement to be fair to the Tunisian

:50:35. > :50:38.people and to the Tunisian authorities to prodict these things

:50:39. > :50:41.requires a great deal of intelligence work, of careful

:50:42. > :50:45.investigation and so on and then if you did get all that intelligence

:50:46. > :50:51.you try and stop the thing happening rather than react for quickly. Thank

:50:52. > :50:57.you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Ambassador.

:50:58. > :51:00.Prison officers at jails in England and Wales are taking part

:51:01. > :51:02.in industrial action again from tomorrow in a dispute

:51:03. > :51:05.Members will withdraw from voluntary duties,

:51:06. > :51:06.including staffing "Tornado" teams which respond to

:51:07. > :51:15.The Government is threatening to go to court to stop the action saying

:51:16. > :51:20.it is unlawful. Peter Dawson, who's a former

:51:21. > :51:22.Prison Officer and Director Alex Cavendish, a former prisoner

:51:23. > :51:28.is on the line as well - we're not showing his face

:51:29. > :51:38.because he was targeted He left prison three years ago.

:51:39. > :51:43.Thank you very much for coming on the programme. First of all, just

:51:44. > :51:48.remind our audience about this action and what you think of it.

:51:49. > :51:52.Well, I entirely understand why prison officers are so frustrated. A

:51:53. > :51:58.huge amount of damage has been done to their service over the last three

:51:59. > :52:00.years by the speed and the extent of the cuts the Government has made.

:52:01. > :52:04.Industrial action can only make matters worse and it could put

:52:05. > :52:10.people's lives at risk. I certainly don't support them in taking that

:52:11. > :52:15.out ot of the problems they face. OK, what should they do? We hear

:52:16. > :52:18.about public services all the time that have rising demand and not

:52:19. > :52:21.enough resources to cope. But in prison, the demand for prisons is in

:52:22. > :52:26.our hands. It's about how many people we send to prison and how

:52:27. > :52:31.long we send them there for. So a huge part of the solution has to be

:52:32. > :52:35.sending fewer people to prison and not keeping them there as long. It

:52:36. > :52:38.is not necessary for rehabilitation and for some people it can undermine

:52:39. > :52:42.their chances of making a go of it when they leave prison. Alex, what

:52:43. > :52:49.do you think of the industrial action by prison officers? Well, I

:52:50. > :52:54.take on board Peter's points, but I think we have to accept the present

:52:55. > :53:01.prison crisis is an entirely political construct. It is the

:53:02. > :53:05.result of years of cut, over ?900 million cuts from the budget and

:53:06. > :53:10.unfortunately the levels of violence that we're seeing in prison makes it

:53:11. > :53:14.an incredibly dangerous place for staff and prisoners alike. So I can

:53:15. > :53:21.certainly see what prison officers would not want to undertake

:53:22. > :53:25.voluntary activities at a time when their safety cannot be guaranteed on

:53:26. > :53:28.a day-to-day basis. Do you agree with the Government that it should

:53:29. > :53:37.be stopped by them going through the courts? I think it's going to be

:53:38. > :53:40.very difficult to stop people not doing voluntary activities. You

:53:41. > :53:44.know, one can see it is not a strike. No one is suggesting that

:53:45. > :53:51.prison officers won't report for work. What they're saying, they

:53:52. > :53:54.won't do are activities which are above and beyond their contractual

:53:55. > :54:00.duties. So I suppose in a sense, it is a work to rule. But I imagine

:54:01. > :54:04.that if the Government really takes this to court the morale of prison

:54:05. > :54:07.officers is going to hit rock bottom and I think that's an extremely

:54:08. > :54:12.dangerous thing for everybody, prisoners and staff alike. OK. Thank

:54:13. > :54:13.you both. Thank you both very much. Thank you for coming on the

:54:14. > :54:18.programme. A US private rocket company called

:54:19. > :54:20.SpaceX has announced that two private citizens have paid to be

:54:21. > :54:23.sent around the Moon in 2018. The two unnamed passengers

:54:24. > :54:26.are said to be entering it "with their eyes open,

:54:27. > :54:34.knowing that there is some risk". Richard Garriott flew

:54:35. > :54:36.to the International Space Station in 2008 as a self-funded space

:54:37. > :54:39.tourist and I began by asking him what he thought of the fact that two

:54:40. > :54:45.people have paid for this once It is incredibly exciting news and

:54:46. > :54:51.whilst the announcement was a surprise to me and I consider myself

:54:52. > :54:56.an industry insider, it's the timing is not that shocking in the sense of

:54:57. > :55:00.this is really what this space industry and the commercial space

:55:01. > :55:03.folks have been trying to pull off for some years. It is great to see

:55:04. > :55:09.it happening now. How much do you think they will have paid for this

:55:10. > :55:16.trip? Well, you know, I don't, I don't have any inside information

:55:17. > :55:20.and Elon hasn't said publicly, but my personal estimate knowing what

:55:21. > :55:25.the vehicle costs is somewhere between ?100 million and $150

:55:26. > :55:31.million a seat would be my personal estimate. Wow. So what sort of

:55:32. > :55:35.person will that be awe part from someone who is incredibly wealthy.

:55:36. > :55:38.If you ask anyone on earth, you know, would they like to go, if they

:55:39. > :55:42.could afford it and they thought it was safe enough, would they go and

:55:43. > :55:47.80% of all people say yes to that question. And that means, you know,

:55:48. > :55:52.whether you can awe ford it or not, it's still 80% and so, if you think

:55:53. > :55:56.of the thousands and thousands of highly wealthy people, people that

:55:57. > :56:02.have hundreds of millions of dollars, that's well below 1%, but

:56:03. > :56:05.that's still a lot of people so 80% of those people want to go too. So

:56:06. > :56:09.finding people who can pay to go and want to go is actually not the hard

:56:10. > :56:14.part. The hard part is people to take such a trip like this they have

:56:15. > :56:19.to retire from their businesses for a year or two and if they, you know,

:56:20. > :56:23.for example a captain of industry to become that industry, it could

:56:24. > :56:28.affect the stock price of the companies they helment and so,

:56:29. > :56:33.taking time off is really a much bigger deal, a harder hurdle than

:56:34. > :56:39.the money. They're going to the moon. What will they see? First of

:56:40. > :56:44.all, only 12 people have gone to the moon and back and those all happened

:56:45. > :56:48.when I was quite young and so, you know, for the majority of people

:56:49. > :56:55.alive on the planet today, they don't remember a time when humanity

:56:56. > :56:58.went beyond orbit. This is extremely exciting from the fact that humanity

:56:59. > :57:03.is going to be returning to the moon and you know, if you go to the space

:57:04. > :57:07.station and things like I did, you're only 250 miles up. That's not

:57:08. > :57:10.very far away really. No. And when you go to the moon, you know, you're

:57:11. > :57:14.hundreds of thousands of miles away. I think one of the first amazing

:57:15. > :57:19.things they will see is just the view of the earth from space which

:57:20. > :57:24.is life changing. Then as you travel to the moon, the Earth will recede

:57:25. > :57:29.into the distance until it literally becomes the blue marble that is

:57:30. > :57:33.famous from the Apollo pictures of that era and finally, the most

:57:34. > :57:35.spectacular part will be the arrival and trip around the moon before

:57:36. > :57:44.returning. Thank you for your comments on

:57:45. > :57:47.personal independence payments and whether they should be paid for

:57:48. > :57:51.mental health illnesses and also psychological problems. This texter

:57:52. > :57:54.says, "My son has paranoid schizophrenia and managed to work

:57:55. > :58:00.for 17 years with people who accepted his limitations. He can no

:58:01. > :58:05.longer work aged 48. He takes strong antipsychotic drugs to cope and yet

:58:06. > :58:10.cannot claim PIP. He struggles on minimum benefit payments. How

:58:11. > :58:17.majorly mentally ill does one have to be to qualify?" Sam says, "I have

:58:18. > :58:21.had a physical health problem. Can't get PIP because I'm not disabled

:58:22. > :58:26.enough. " Clearly, we're going to come back it this issue. Do keep

:58:27. > :58:30.getting in touch with us with your own experiences. More throughout the

:58:31. > :58:32.day into the The thing that's so clear

:58:33. > :58:34.is that it's 100% honest. We're right in the middle

:58:35. > :58:39.of the action. The remarkable story

:58:40. > :58:42.of British photography. The only cameras that were there

:58:43. > :58:45.that day How pioneering artists

:58:46. > :58:51.and technology