21/03/2017

:00:08. > :00:09.Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:10. > :00:17."Without him there would be no peace" - one of the tributes

:00:18. > :00:21.to Martin McGuiness, the former IRA leader turned

:00:22. > :00:25.peacekeeper who's died this morning aged 66.

:00:26. > :00:33.My journey's been a long journey, I've been over 25 years working

:00:34. > :00:37.People were being murdered by the RUC, or they were

:00:38. > :00:42.being murdered wholesale as they were at Bloody Sunday

:00:43. > :00:45.And the fact that many young people like myself -

:00:46. > :00:48.supported by many thousands in the city, I'm not saying

:00:49. > :01:01.They decided to fight back. I do not regret any of that.

:01:02. > :01:03.Also on the programme - the dad falsely accused

:01:04. > :01:05.of being a paedophile because of a typo by police

:01:06. > :01:08.If you're a decent person, who lives a decent life,

:01:09. > :01:11.I found that really frightening for me,

:01:12. > :01:28.We'll bring you that interview before the end of the programme.

:01:29. > :01:32.The former deputy first minister of Northern Ireland -

:01:33. > :01:34.Martin McGuinness - has died in hospital in Londonderry.

:01:35. > :01:37.He was 66 and had been suffering from a rare heart condition.

:01:38. > :01:41.As a senior figure in the IRA, Mr McGuinness was often accused

:01:42. > :01:45.of killing, and ordering others to kill.

:01:46. > :01:48.He went on to play an important role as a Sinn Fein

:01:49. > :01:52.Chris Buckler looks back at his life.

:01:53. > :01:54.To paint a true picture of Martin McGuinness,

:01:55. > :02:01.He was a paramilitary who once embraced violence,

:02:02. > :02:05.but also a peacemaker who reached out to rivals, a man who could be

:02:06. > :02:12.Born in Londonderry, into a large Catholic family,

:02:13. > :02:15.Martin McGuinness came of age as Northern Ireland's

:02:16. > :02:21.In that time of violence, he joined the IRA, quickly

:02:22. > :02:28.Can you say whether the bombing is likely to stop in the near future,

:02:29. > :02:38.Well, I always take into consideration the feelings

:02:39. > :02:42.The 1970s saw him become one of the faces of ruthless

:02:43. > :02:44.Irish republicanism, and he was jailed for terrorist

:02:45. > :02:48.McGuinness has changed considerably from the young man who used

:02:49. > :02:51.to swagger around the no-go areas in Londonderry, as commander

:02:52. > :02:57.What had started as a fight for civil rights had

:02:58. > :03:05.Yet, alongside the many bombings and shootings,

:03:06. > :03:07.Martin McGuinness saw opportunities at the ballot box for

:03:08. > :03:10.Sinn Fein, the political party linked to the IRA.

:03:11. > :03:14.Even then, the language of threat remained.

:03:15. > :03:16.We don't believe that winning elections, and winning

:03:17. > :03:19.any amount of votes, will bring freedom in Ireland.

:03:20. > :03:22.At the end of the day, it will be the cutting edge of IRA

:03:23. > :03:28.But, after years of killings and chaos, in the 1990s,

:03:29. > :03:29.IRA ceasefires offered the opportunity for talks

:03:30. > :03:46.Not only would they shake hands, after the signing

:03:47. > :03:48.of the Good Friday Agreement, they joined each

:03:49. > :03:53.Eventually, at its head was the unlikely partnership

:03:54. > :03:55.of two former enemies - Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness.

:03:56. > :04:00.The firebrand unionist and radical republican became so close

:04:01. > :04:06.that they were nicknamed the Chuckle Brothers.

:04:07. > :04:12.There were republicans who continued to threaten that political progress.

:04:13. > :04:14.But when a police officer was killed, the then-deputy first

:04:15. > :04:16.minister stood side-by-side with the chief constable to condemn

:04:17. > :04:26.They are traitors to the island of Ireland.

:04:27. > :04:28.Alongside the words, there were actions on all sides.

:04:29. > :04:30.The Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten was killed by the IRA.

:04:31. > :04:32.Yet, after the Troubles, royal and republican were able

:04:33. > :04:37.Thank you very much, I am still alive!

:04:38. > :04:46.However, relationships at Stormont always seemed strained

:04:47. > :04:48.after Ian Paisley stepped down as First Minister, to be

:04:49. > :04:51.replaced by Peter Robinson, and then Arlene Foster.

:04:52. > :04:54.Earlier this year, with his ill-health by then obvious,

:04:55. > :04:59.Martin McGuinness walked out of government, amid a row

:05:00. > :05:01.between Sinn Fein and the DUP, the boy from Derry's Bogside

:05:02. > :05:05.retiring as deputy first minister after years in the IRA.

:05:06. > :05:14.I've been over 25 years working and building the peace.

:05:15. > :05:17.The past actions of the IRA will colour many people's views

:05:18. > :05:22.But as a republican who worked towards reconciliation,

:05:23. > :05:30.he will be remembered as a key figure in changing Northern Ireland.

:05:31. > :05:34.Our Ireland correspondent Chris Page is in Belfast.

:05:35. > :05:43.Tell us about some of the reaction, mixed reaction, to the death of

:05:44. > :05:46.Martin McGuinness. Martin McGuinness had a complex and controversial life

:05:47. > :05:51.but also today we have heard plenty about the role he played in the

:05:52. > :05:56.peace process. He more than anybody else embodied the journey of Irish

:05:57. > :05:59.republicans from guns to government and people observed if it was not

:06:00. > :06:04.for Martin McGuinness there may not have been the peace process at all.

:06:05. > :06:09.Tony Blair who negotiated the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 that

:06:10. > :06:15.effectively ended the troubles said what made Martin McGuinness a

:06:16. > :06:18.formidable foe made him a formidable peacemaker and those two sides of

:06:19. > :06:24.his life have come into focus and the warmest tributes have been paid

:06:25. > :06:29.by Republicans who have called him a statesman, Peacemaker, a man who

:06:30. > :06:35.worked for reconciliation. Most unionist politicians noted the harm

:06:36. > :06:40.the IRA did and Martin McGuinness' violent past in that organisation.

:06:41. > :06:44.The Ulster Unionist leader said it would be a challenging day for

:06:45. > :06:52.victims. He and other unionists recognise the pit -- pivotal role he

:06:53. > :07:07.played in this era. Arlene Foster has said that in terms

:07:08. > :07:12.of Martin McGuinness's history people will know it is on the record

:07:13. > :07:15.what his history was, his past and the IRA, but acknowledged his

:07:16. > :07:19.significance in negotiations that brought peace to Northern Ireland. I

:07:20. > :07:25.want to give the audience some of the reaction from viewers. A tweet

:07:26. > :07:29.from Keith, let's refrain from giving people the impression Martin

:07:30. > :07:34.McGuinness was a saint. An anonymous viewers said he was responsible for

:07:35. > :07:39.the death of several family members, three of which were innocent of

:07:40. > :07:44.crimes in the troubles. Obviously a divisive figure. Absolutely he was.

:07:45. > :07:47.They IRA was the most deadly paramilitary group in the troubles

:07:48. > :07:52.and responsible for hundreds of deaths and when he became known it

:07:53. > :07:57.was as a terrorist godfather, that was the way many would describe him

:07:58. > :08:02.and he had the reputation infamous as a hard man in the Aaron Rai and

:08:03. > :08:08.held a senior figure in the republican movement throughout the

:08:09. > :08:11.violence in a bitter conflict that cost 3500 lives of many thought it

:08:12. > :08:17.might never end but eventually it did. There are many who cannot

:08:18. > :08:20.forgive Martin McGuinness and some unionists who could not reconcile

:08:21. > :08:24.themselves to the fact he ended up in government running Northern

:08:25. > :08:28.Ireland alongside unionists, but the latter phase of his life, the focus

:08:29. > :08:33.has been on his role as a politician, as opposed to the

:08:34. > :08:38.paramilitary role. Alan McBride, whose wife was killed in the

:08:39. > :08:42.Shankill Road bombing in 93 said today Martin McGuinness's fingers

:08:43. > :08:47.were all over the troubles but also all over the peace process. More

:08:48. > :08:51.reaction to come to the death of Martin McGuinness and we will talk

:08:52. > :08:53.to Colin Parry, whose son was killed in Warrington by an IRA

:08:54. > :08:59.Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

:09:00. > :09:03.A man has been charged with the murder of a one year

:09:04. > :09:07.Bidhya Sagar Das, who's 33, is also charged with attempting

:09:08. > :09:09.to murder the boy's twin sister, who remains in a critical

:09:10. > :09:12.Both children were discovered with serious injuries

:09:13. > :09:15.at a flat near Finsbury Park on Saturday night.

:09:16. > :09:19.The US is banning electronic devices from cabin baggage on flights

:09:20. > :09:21.from eight mainly Middle Eastern and North African countries.

:09:22. > :09:25.It will reportedly include all large electronic

:09:26. > :09:28.devices such as laptops, tablets cameras, DVD

:09:29. > :09:30.players and electronic games, but not phones.

:09:31. > :09:32.The measure will affect nine airlines, flying

:09:33. > :09:39.Thousands of young children in England are having their baby

:09:40. > :09:46.teeth removed each year because of tooth decay.

:09:47. > :09:52.and show just over 84,000 tooth extractions were carried out

:09:53. > :09:56.The Department of Health say they're introducing a soft drinks levy,

:09:57. > :09:58.to encourage companies to reduce sugar in their products.

:09:59. > :10:01.A father has told this programme his life was ruined

:10:02. > :10:03.when police wrongly accused him of being a paedophile -

:10:04. > :10:06.after a typing error sent officers to the wrong address.

:10:07. > :10:09.Nigel Lang, from Sheffield, was arrested on suspicion

:10:10. > :10:12.of possessing indecent images of children.

:10:13. > :10:14.He was subsequently suspended from work and wasn't

:10:15. > :10:19.He was eventually cleared when it was discovered that police

:10:20. > :10:22.had mistakenly added an extra digit to an IP address linked

:10:23. > :10:27.Hertfordshire Constabulary admitted the error and apologised to Mr Lang,

:10:28. > :10:33.And you can hear Nigel Lang's interview with Victoria

:10:34. > :10:40.A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later,

:10:41. > :10:43.as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second

:10:44. > :10:48.The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask

:10:49. > :10:51.Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite

:10:52. > :10:54.the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time".

:10:55. > :11:02.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am.

:11:03. > :11:09.More reaction to the death of Martin McGuinness in a moment and we will

:11:10. > :11:14.begin the sport first. It is the international break in football and

:11:15. > :11:18.Jamie Vardy has created headlines. Down at St James' Park with England

:11:19. > :11:24.and they fly Dortmund, playing Germany in a friendly. Almost a year

:11:25. > :11:28.ago he scored against Germany in the build-up to the Euros and was firing

:11:29. > :11:32.Leicester to be improbable title and he could do no wrong but a month

:11:33. > :11:39.ago, things soured. Leicester have had a terrible season and sacked

:11:40. > :11:43.Claudio Ranieri and there was speculation Jamie Vardy was behind

:11:44. > :11:49.some kind of players' revolt. He said he he had nothing to do with it

:11:50. > :11:53.and things went wrong. The current manager has turned things around,

:11:54. > :11:57.but he has been talking about receiving death threats either to

:11:58. > :12:01.himself, via social media, just walking down the street as well he

:12:02. > :12:06.says, the weekly basis, and he talked about his wife being while

:12:07. > :12:12.she was in the car with children. People trying to cut her up. Just a

:12:13. > :12:17.glimpse of what he has been going through. He said he has not involved

:12:18. > :12:21.the police and it is part and parcel with what being a Premier League

:12:22. > :12:25.footballer is and he knows some people will never like him, but it

:12:26. > :12:31.has been an unpleasant couple of weeks for Jamie Vardy, denying the

:12:32. > :12:36.fact he was behind Claudio Ranieri's sacking in some way that saying he

:12:37. > :12:39.has been getting flak, including the serious nature of death threats but

:12:40. > :12:45.social media, we know all about that. You have done so much about

:12:46. > :12:47.that, Victoria, it is easy for people to do things like that, isn't

:12:48. > :12:52.it? The other home nations, what about

:12:53. > :12:56.them? It will be a busy few weeks. We have a couple of days waiting to

:12:57. > :13:01.the matches. Scotland have a friendly in Edinburgh against

:13:02. > :13:05.Canada. They could be rattling around Easton Road, they have only

:13:06. > :13:09.sold 5000 tickets. Gordon Strachan has tried to sell tickets by saying

:13:10. > :13:13.they will put on a show and why not turn up to see what they can do

:13:14. > :13:18.against Canada. But Canada are pretty poor and Scotland should win.

:13:19. > :13:23.It should be a good match in Dublin on Friday night, a World Cup

:13:24. > :13:28.qualifier. Wales with Gareth Bale play the Republic of Ireland. A

:13:29. > :13:33.Northern Ireland facing Norway in another qualifier. And England back

:13:34. > :13:42.at Wembley, facing Lithuania. It will be busy on the football front.

:13:43. > :13:44.Next, reaction to the death of Martin McGuinness.

:13:45. > :13:46.Northern Ireland's former deputy first minister who's died aged 66.

:13:47. > :13:50.He's known to have been ill for some time with a rare heart condition.

:13:51. > :13:53.To many he was seen as a peacemaker, others could never forgive him

:13:54. > :13:55.for his role as a key figure in the IRA.

:13:56. > :13:58.He grew up in Derry's Bogside, radicalised by what he saw

:13:59. > :14:02.as discrimination and murder on the streets of his city.

:14:03. > :14:08.We believe that the only way that Irish people can bring about the

:14:09. > :14:11.freedom of their country is through the use of armed struggle.

:14:12. > :14:14.I wish it could be done in another way.

:14:15. > :14:17.If someone could tell me a peaceful way

:14:18. > :14:19.to do it, then I would gladly support that.

:14:20. > :14:25.He had a leading role in the IRA during the time

:14:26. > :14:29.the paramilitary organisation was bombing his home city.

:14:30. > :14:32.This is him addressing a rally in Tyrone, which had one of the most

:14:33. > :14:34.active republican paramilitary groups, at the height

:14:35. > :14:49.Republican people of Tyrone, the people are with you today to pay

:14:50. > :14:52.tribute to the volunteers of the Irish republican army from this

:14:53. > :14:59.historic county who gave their lives sad every generation for freedom and

:15:00. > :15:04.justice in Ireland. In doing so we are in union with Republicans in

:15:05. > :15:09.every part of Ireland in honouring the memory of our friends, the

:15:10. > :15:14.freedom fighters of the IRA who have selflessly given everything in our

:15:15. > :15:24.continuing struggle against occupation.

:15:25. > :15:27.The Good Friday Agreement led to this handshake with the Queen and a

:15:28. > :15:30.toast at Windsor Castle. Many people in this hall today

:15:31. > :15:32.played an important part in our peace process and many

:15:33. > :15:34.others, unfortunately, And I want to send to

:15:35. > :15:42.them our warmest thanks. We will continue to rely on that

:15:43. > :15:46.support as we strive towards a society moving

:15:47. > :15:51.from division and disharmony to one which celebrates our diversity

:15:52. > :15:54.and is determined to provide a better future for

:15:55. > :15:59.all of our people. One which cherishes the elderly,

:16:00. > :16:02.the vulnerable, the young and all of our children equally,

:16:03. > :16:06.which welcomes warmly those from other lands and cultures

:16:07. > :16:09.who wish to join us and forge A society which remembers those

:16:10. > :16:21.who have lost their lives. By 2007, he was Northern Ireland's

:16:22. > :16:23.Deputy First Minister standing alongside First Minister Ian

:16:24. > :16:44.Paisley. Mart marlt resigned at the beginning

:16:45. > :16:47.of the year against the Democratic Party's handling of an energy

:16:48. > :16:51.scandal that triggered a snap election.

:16:52. > :16:52.During his last press conference, Mr McGuinness

:16:53. > :17:02.He died in his home city of Derry this morning with his family by his

:17:03. > :17:05.side. The former British Prime

:17:06. > :17:07.Minister Tony Blair, who worked with Mr McGuiness closely

:17:08. > :17:09.during the Northern Ireland peace process, told Radio 4's Today

:17:10. > :17:12.programme this morning he had immense gratitude for the part

:17:13. > :17:16.he played in the peace process. For people like myself talking about

:17:17. > :17:19.Martin's contribution to peace, there will be people who remember

:17:20. > :17:23.the early days, those who lost loved ones in the troubles and they will

:17:24. > :17:27.find it very hard to forgive and impossible to forget. So, you know,

:17:28. > :17:33.we should always be aware of that in a strange way though, the steel that

:17:34. > :17:39.he showed back then in the pursuit of arms struggle was also the

:17:40. > :17:44.steel... A degree of dedication and commitment that was very ruthless,

:17:45. > :17:50.but that same determination was then brought forward in the peace

:17:51. > :17:54.process. So the character of Martin McGuinness in one sense did not

:17:55. > :17:58.change. That steel was always there, but once he decided to deploy it, in

:17:59. > :18:03.pursuit of peace, he did so with a lot of courage and a lot of

:18:04. > :18:06.leadership and I remember we had a the first really proper meeting we

:18:07. > :18:11.had was in Downing Street in the Cabinet Room and I remember Martin

:18:12. > :18:17.coming in with Gerry Adams and they sat down very heavily at the Cabinet

:18:18. > :18:23.table and Martin looked around and said with rather heavy irony, "So

:18:24. > :18:29.this was where the damage was done?" Meaning the partition agreement in

:18:30. > :18:32.the days of Lloyd George to which Jonathan Powell my Chief-of-Staff

:18:33. > :18:41.replied with a smile, "By damage I thought you meant when you guys

:18:42. > :18:46.lobbed the mortar through the windows of Downing Street in John

:18:47. > :18:50.Major's time." Martin was the one who wanted to explain why consistent

:18:51. > :18:56.with the principles of republicanism now was the right moment for peace.

:18:57. > :19:02.So this for him was not a, it wasn't an act of stepping back from what he

:19:03. > :19:07.believed, it was genuinely that he had come to see this, the troubles

:19:08. > :19:10.and the arms struggle as something that was just causing misery for his

:19:11. > :19:16.people as well as the rest of the people in Northern Ireland and

:19:17. > :19:20.mainland Britain and he therefore, once he had come to his view that

:19:21. > :19:24.peace was the right way forward, he pursued it with a lot of skill and

:19:25. > :19:30.with a lot of courage and without him being - because he had the

:19:31. > :19:34.credibility within the republican movement - without him being fully

:19:35. > :19:39.on side with this process, it would never have happened.

:19:40. > :19:41.We can speak now to the Conservative MP Theresa Villiers,

:19:42. > :19:44.who was Northern Ireland Secretary from September 2012 until July last

:19:45. > :19:46.year and to Lord Tebbit who was in the Brighton hotel

:19:47. > :19:49.when it was bombed by the IRA in 1984 -

:19:50. > :19:54.the attack killed five people and left Lord Tebbit's

:19:55. > :20:05.What are your thoughts on the deft Martin McGuinness? The world is a

:20:06. > :20:16.sweeter and cleaner place. How would you describe him? A coward. A

:20:17. > :20:21.murderer. What else? Do you accept his significant role in the peace

:20:22. > :20:30.process? Yes, he had a significant role because of his cowardice. He

:20:31. > :20:34.knew the IRA had been penetrated to its highest levels by British

:20:35. > :20:39.intelligence and that before long he would have been arrested and charged

:20:40. > :20:44.with some of the many murders which he personally committed and so he

:20:45. > :20:48.opted for the coward's way out and said, "I am a man of peace." Do you

:20:49. > :20:52.think the peace process could have come about without the role he

:20:53. > :21:00.played? Without his contribution? Yes, after he had been killed. What

:21:01. > :21:07.do you mean zm Well, he might well have been killed by British forces

:21:08. > :21:11.in one of his acts of terrorism or, of course, he might have been

:21:12. > :21:17.arrested. He knew that he was shortly to be arrested and charged

:21:18. > :21:36.with murder and so, it would have put him out of the running in the

:21:37. > :21:40.peace process. A woman person who was murdered, it was his view and my

:21:41. > :21:46.view that the first requirement for lasting peace and justice was that

:21:47. > :21:53.the IRA should be defeated. So you believe Martin McGuinness saw the

:21:54. > :21:57.peace process as... As a way of escaping justice. Right. When you

:21:58. > :21:59.hear the tributes from your Prime Minister, Theresa May, from former

:22:00. > :22:08.Prime Minister, Tony Blair, what do you think then? Well, when I hear

:22:09. > :22:14.Tony Blair talking about McGuinness as Martin, I must say, it's

:22:15. > :22:21.difficult not to be ill, but of course, we know Blair of old and you

:22:22. > :22:28.know, he was the hero of Iraq and many other acts of policy and I

:22:29. > :22:38.repeat again that we would have got a more soundly based peace with less

:22:39. > :22:42.deaths if a politician had been alive to carry out his policy.

:22:43. > :22:46.Theresa May is forgiving McGuinness and somebody mentioned that. He

:22:47. > :22:51.can't be forgiven because forgiveness requires confession of

:22:52. > :22:56.sins and repentance. He never confessed his since. He never

:22:57. > :23:00.repented. Theresa May said Martin McGuinness made, "An essential and

:23:01. > :23:04.historic contribution to Northern Ireland's peace process playing a

:23:05. > :23:07.defining role in leading the republican movement away from

:23:08. > :23:13.violence." He certainly did play a role, but it was a role which was

:23:14. > :23:20.played out of cowardice and nothing else. Can I ask how your wife is?

:23:21. > :23:24.That's not particularly relevant, but she has been crippled and in

:23:25. > :23:30.pain for the last 30 odd years. Indeed, I have suffered pain every

:23:31. > :23:35.day for the last 30 odd years, but my thoughts are far more with many

:23:36. > :23:45.others in Northern Ireland particularly the families of the

:23:46. > :23:47.disappeared and as many of us know, the disappeared disappeared after

:23:48. > :23:50.they were murdered in order to conceal the manner in which they had

:23:51. > :23:55.died. There will be some people watching our programme this morning

:23:56. > :24:03.who are too young to remember what happened on 12th October 1984 and

:24:04. > :24:05.that an iment RA bomb ripped apart that Brighton hotel during the

:24:06. > :24:08.Conservative Party Conference, the target was the Prime Minister,

:24:09. > :24:14.Margaret Thatcher. Five people were killed. As you've explained Lord

:24:15. > :24:21.Tebbit, your wife, was badly injured, and has experienced pain

:24:22. > :24:27.since as have you. What do you think about that act when you reflect on

:24:28. > :24:31.it? Well, it is just a plain straightforward act of murder and

:24:32. > :24:42.the poor little creature who actually put the bomb in the hotel,

:24:43. > :24:47.he was, nowhere have we ever had a confession from those who planned

:24:48. > :24:52.and organised it, who paid for it, who produced the bomb and gave it to

:24:53. > :25:00.him to put in the bathroom. Not a word of contrition from them. I'm

:25:01. > :25:03.going to bring in Teresa Villiers, former Northern Ireland Secretary,

:25:04. > :25:07.you've heard what Lord Tebbit said. What are your thoughts on the death

:25:08. > :25:14.of Martin McGuinness? I think it is right that we do reflect on the many

:25:15. > :25:19.people who suffered very directly and very seriously at the hands of

:25:20. > :25:23.the IRA of which Martin McGuinness was a leading member for very many

:25:24. > :25:31.years. I think it's certainly true that he did play an important role

:25:32. > :25:34.in delivering peace in Northern Ireland, but he will still

:25:35. > :25:39.undoubtedly responsible for great suffering as well in the past. You

:25:40. > :25:43.heard Lord Tebbit saying he using the peace process as an opportunity

:25:44. > :25:47.to evade justice? I'm sure, the police and prosecuting authorities

:25:48. > :25:53.in Northern Ireland pursue anyone against which there is evidence so

:25:54. > :25:55.I'm not sure I would see the processes involving that if there

:25:56. > :26:01.was evidence against Martin McGuinness I'm sure the police would

:26:02. > :26:05.have pursued it. I believe one thing that Martin McGuinness was always

:26:06. > :26:10.very clear about was he did not want to see a return to the brutality and

:26:11. > :26:18.the atrocities of the past. So, there is no doubt that his attitude

:26:19. > :26:26.did change over time, but that, I think, doesn't mean that he's freufb

:26:27. > :26:33.for he's forgiven for the acts he was involved in. Sorry, Lord Tebbit,

:26:34. > :26:37.you wanted to come in. He knew the file that some of the murders he had

:26:38. > :26:41.committed had gone to the office of the prosecutor. That was why he,

:26:42. > :26:46.being a coward, opted for peace. There will be more tributes from all

:26:47. > :26:52.sorts of people, the reaction is coming in. Mixed reaction from

:26:53. > :26:57.politicians, from people who lost loved ones as a result of IRA

:26:58. > :27:03.bombings. From the Prime Minister, you've already mentioned, from the

:27:04. > :27:08.former Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Do you think, Theresa Villiers there

:27:09. > :27:10.could have been a peace process without Martin McGuinness and the

:27:11. > :27:15.role he played? I think there could have been, but there is no doubt he

:27:16. > :27:18.did play an important part in the peace process and during the years I

:27:19. > :27:24.was Secretary of State, when, you know, that in a sense that process

:27:25. > :27:29.continued with attempts to reconcile parties, ensure they could work

:27:30. > :27:33.together, he was, I have to say, constructive and pragmatic and

:27:34. > :27:39.clearly, wanted to make the settlement out of the Good Friday

:27:40. > :27:43.Agreement work and so we need to give him credit for that. Lord

:27:44. > :27:51.Tebbit, you saw the relationship he established with his one time bitter

:27:52. > :27:55.political rival, Ian Paisley of the Democratic Party, how did you view

:27:56. > :27:58.that? Well, I wouldn't want to be responsible for choosing the friends

:27:59. > :28:05.of either of them. Go on. Why do you say that? I don't have a high regard

:28:06. > :28:09.for either of them. Right, OK. Do you accept that the political, the

:28:10. > :28:14.economic and the social well-being of Northern Ireland has been

:28:15. > :28:22.transformed since 1998? Yes, of course, it has. I'm not denying

:28:23. > :28:25.that. What I'm significant it arose because of the cowardice because of

:28:26. > :28:32.the terrorist, McGuinness. Thank you very much for your time this

:28:33. > :28:38.morning. OK, thank you. Lord Tebbit, talking, giving us his thoughts on

:28:39. > :28:43.Martin McGuinness. Talking about the bomb back in 1948, 12th October

:28:44. > :28:45.1984, the IRA bomb ripping through a Brighton hotel where the

:28:46. > :28:48.Conservative Party was gathered for their conference. The target was the

:28:49. > :28:53.Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher. She survived. Five other people were

:28:54. > :28:58.killed. Lord Tebbit was injured. He was the trade secretary at the time

:28:59. > :29:06.and his wife were injured. They were in bed when that bomb exploded and

:29:07. > :29:10.you heard him say, he was repeatedly asked if he would be able to forgive

:29:11. > :29:14.the IRA for what happened and the answer is clearly no. Thank you very

:29:15. > :29:21.much for your time as well. Thank you, Teresa Villiers, former

:29:22. > :29:27.Northern Ireland Secretary. We will talk to the father falsely

:29:28. > :29:31.accused of being a paedophile because of a typo by the police. If

:29:32. > :29:36.you're a decent person and you don't know how it happened and I found

:29:37. > :29:40.that really frightening for me. And frightening for my family.

:29:41. > :29:43.Should Scotland have that second referendum on independence and if so

:29:44. > :29:46.when? The Scottish Parliament will debate it today. There will be a

:29:47. > :29:53.vote. We will speak to those on both sides of the argument.

:29:54. > :29:57.Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness, Northern Ireland's former

:29:58. > :30:00.deputy first minister, has died aged 66.

:30:01. > :30:02.It's understood he had been suffering from

:30:03. > :30:07.The former IRA leader turned peacemaker worked at the heart

:30:08. > :30:09.of the power-sharing government following the 1998

:30:10. > :30:15.He became deputy first minister in 2007, standing alongside

:30:16. > :30:17.Democratic Unionist Party leaders Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson

:30:18. > :30:24.But he stood down from his post in January in protest

:30:25. > :30:27.against the DUP's handling of an energy scandal, in a move that

:30:28. > :30:34.Tony Blair, who was Prime Minister when the Good Friday Agreement

:30:35. > :30:38.was signed in 1998, has been speaking to the BBC this morning.

:30:39. > :30:41.He was asked how it felt to be sitting across a table

:30:42. > :30:43.and negotiating with a man who, for many British people,

:30:44. > :30:56.That was the attitude of many people and, in a way, you only make peace

:30:57. > :31:02.with your enemies, so the people engaged in war were those engaged in

:31:03. > :31:08.peace. I think the quality of strength and determination that made

:31:09. > :31:11.him such a formidable foe during the armed struggle was also what made

:31:12. > :31:14.him such a formidable peacemaker later.

:31:15. > :31:16.Lord Tebbit was in the Brighton hotel when it was bombed

:31:17. > :31:20.by the IRA in 1984 - the attack killed 5 people and left

:31:21. > :31:29.He told this programme what he thought of Martin McGuinness' role

:31:30. > :31:35.in the peace process. He had a significant role because of his

:31:36. > :31:41.cowardice. He knew the IRA had been penetrated to its highest levels by

:31:42. > :31:45.British intelligence and that before long he would have been arrested and

:31:46. > :31:50.charged with some of the many murders which he personally

:31:51. > :31:58.committed, and so he opted for Luke Howard's way out and said, I am a

:31:59. > :32:03.man of peace. We will have -- he opted for the cow would's way out.

:32:04. > :32:06.A man has been charged with the murder of a one year

:32:07. > :32:10.Bidhya Sagar Das, who's 33, is also charged with attempting

:32:11. > :32:12.to murder the boy's twin sister, who remains in a critical

:32:13. > :32:15.Both children were discovered with serious injuries

:32:16. > :32:17.at a flat near Finsbury Park on Saturday night.

:32:18. > :32:20.A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later,

:32:21. > :32:23.as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second

:32:24. > :32:26.The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask

:32:27. > :32:29.Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite

:32:30. > :32:37.the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time".

:32:38. > :32:48.More news at ten. Inflation has gone up a bit. The rate of the consumer

:32:49. > :32:53.Price index inflation has risen to 2.3%, up from 1.8% in January, that

:32:54. > :32:59.is from the Office for National Statistics. Consumer inflation has

:33:00. > :33:06.gone up to 2.3%. The sport now. The headlines. Jamie

:33:07. > :33:10.Vardy says he has received death threats from fans who have held him

:33:11. > :33:14.responsible for the sacking of manager Claudio Ranieri. He said

:33:15. > :33:19.life has been terrifying and his family has been targeted after

:33:20. > :33:22.reports he was a player who influenced the decision to let

:33:23. > :33:27.Claudio Ranieri go. Bastian Schweinsteiger from Manchester

:33:28. > :33:33.United will join Chicago Fire with immediate effect. The German has

:33:34. > :33:41.only made four first-team appearances this season. The

:33:42. > :33:46.Canadian team Toronto Wolfpack will play Super League side Salford Red

:33:47. > :33:51.Devils in the challenge cup will stop Toronto, who have dispensation

:33:52. > :33:54.to play in England's third tier have been to London Broncos in the last

:33:55. > :34:02.round and that draw is on the BBC Sport website. Valtteri Bottas says

:34:03. > :34:07.he has no intention of being number two to Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes.

:34:08. > :34:11.He replaced Nico Rosberg, who retired after winning the World

:34:12. > :34:12.Championship. I will be back after ten and we will look at competitive

:34:13. > :34:15.computer gaming. Let's get more now on the news

:34:16. > :34:18.that the former IRA commander, Martin McGuinness, who turned his

:34:19. > :34:21.back on violence to help bring peace to Northern Ireland and become

:34:22. > :34:23.the Deputy First Minister, has died. He was 66 and had

:34:24. > :34:26.a rare heart condition. Prime Minister Theresa May said

:34:27. > :34:29.she could "never condone" the path he'd taken in the earlier part

:34:30. > :34:32.of his life, but added that Martin McGuinness had played

:34:33. > :34:35.a defining role in leading the republican movement

:34:36. > :34:50.away from violence. We can speak to Colin Parry, whose

:34:51. > :34:55.son was killed by an eye a -- by an IRA bomb in Warrington. And also to

:34:56. > :34:59.Dennis Murray, the BBC Ireland correspondent for 20 years. Colin

:35:00. > :35:06.Parry, how do you reflect on the death of Martin McGuinness?

:35:07. > :35:10.I am not altogether surprised he has gone because when I spoke to him not

:35:11. > :35:15.many weeks ago his voice was extremely weak and I saw him on

:35:16. > :35:20.television and he looked very frail. He looked to me like he did not have

:35:21. > :35:24.longer and so it is not a great surprise he has died. If you ask for

:35:25. > :35:29.my opinions about Martin, I got along very well with him will stop

:35:30. > :35:37.although that seems to be anathema to some people, the fact is that in

:35:38. > :35:41.the wake of my son's killing, a couple of years on, my wife and I

:35:42. > :35:45.set up an important charity that works for peace and we have made a

:35:46. > :35:50.major contribution to peace building. I could hardly be

:35:51. > :35:54.consistent with my work if I were to take a black and white view on who I

:35:55. > :35:59.will and will not speak to and Martin and I got on well in recent

:36:00. > :36:05.years. Yet he could have ordered the murder of your son. He could. When I

:36:06. > :36:09.asked him the question why the IRA bombed Warrington, he said he did

:36:10. > :36:15.not know. The chances are he did know but there is little point in

:36:16. > :36:21.pressing the point. He was deeply apologetic for it, not that those

:36:22. > :36:28.apologies mattered in real terms, but the fact he suggested he did not

:36:29. > :36:34.know was interesting to me. Whether the cells had an autonomous life, I

:36:35. > :36:37.do not know. I do not know if the Army Council of the IRA control

:36:38. > :36:42.things as much as we thought they did. Did you believe him when he

:36:43. > :36:48.said he did not know? I neither believed him nor did not believe

:36:49. > :36:56.him. Probably I didn't believe him, on the balance of probabilities. We

:36:57. > :37:01.have just spoken to Lord Tebbit, and he raised the subject of

:37:02. > :37:06.forgiveness. Have you forgiven Martin McGuinness for his role in

:37:07. > :37:15.the RA? No, I haven't forgiven Martin McGuinness and I haven't

:37:16. > :37:20.forgiven the IRA and never will. I am not full of anger and seeking

:37:21. > :37:26.justice. I will not ever get justice. I have closed off the past

:37:27. > :37:32.as best I can so we can concentrate on the future and affect things we

:37:33. > :37:38.can affect. I will not ever forgive the IRA for taking Tim's life, but I

:37:39. > :37:44.cannot allow that to make my other children's life awful. What we have

:37:45. > :37:50.done by setting up the foundation, is make a major step, two parents

:37:51. > :37:54.getting involved in peace building and without overplaying it we are an

:37:55. > :38:00.important organisation in British peace building. How have you managed

:38:01. > :38:09.that anger? The anger was never there. Believe it or not, I was

:38:10. > :38:13.never angry. I was full of emptiness, loss, isolation, and any

:38:14. > :38:17.other emotion out there. Anger was not something I ever felt,

:38:18. > :38:23.thankfully. That is still the case today and I can speak for my wife,

:38:24. > :38:25.she was not angry, we were just completely bereft and bewildered by

:38:26. > :38:34.what happened. I will bring in Dennis Murray, if I may. The BBC

:38:35. > :38:40.Ireland correspondent for so many years, a recognisable face. Good

:38:41. > :38:43.morning. It is clear, listening to what people say about Martin

:38:44. > :38:48.McGuinness what a truly divisive figure he continues to be even in

:38:49. > :38:56.death. Divisive does not do justice to it. It has been summed up well by

:38:57. > :39:02.Colin because you had this kind of two very different roles that Martin

:39:03. > :39:08.McGuinness played and it is reasonably difficult to reconcile

:39:09. > :39:13.the two. Nobody I think is in any doubt Martin McGuinness was a senior

:39:14. > :39:24.IRA commander and always said that he left the IRA in the 70s, but I am

:39:25. > :39:32.not sure how many believed him will. He denied it again he was chief of

:39:33. > :39:36.staff of the IRA stop you have this transformation. It was gradual, not

:39:37. > :39:43.abrupt. Over the years he became a peacemaker. One or two civil

:39:44. > :39:46.servants I know, senior civil servants, who were people you might

:39:47. > :39:52.have thought would not warm to Martin McGuinness, they would not

:39:53. > :39:58.have agreed with him politically but they described him as authentic,

:39:59. > :40:03.genuine and one said, after it a few years of devolution being restored

:40:04. > :40:09.after 2007, he was one of the few statesman left. He certainly

:40:10. > :40:12.travelled a road. For him to condemn dissident republicans as he did

:40:13. > :40:17.after the murders of soldiers and a policeman here, he said they were

:40:18. > :40:21.traitors to the people of Ireland which is astonishing for a

:40:22. > :40:27.Republican leader to say and against the grain of the republican

:40:28. > :40:32.tradition. For him to meet the Queen. Would there have been a peace

:40:33. > :40:36.process without him? Probably, but the republican movement would not

:40:37. > :40:41.have travelled as far or fast as they did without him. Gerry Adams

:40:42. > :40:46.represented the political side of republicanism and Martin McGuinness

:40:47. > :40:51.represented what they called physical force. He used to say

:40:52. > :40:58.nobody misunderstands what I stand for. He had such a fearsome

:40:59. > :41:04.reputation he was able to carry the hardliners, 90% plus of the

:41:05. > :41:09.hardliners in the IRA to come not just to a peace and political deal

:41:10. > :41:16.but to disband and decommission weaponry. Why was he able to

:41:17. > :41:21.persuade the IRA rank and file to accept that peace process and go

:41:22. > :41:28.into political power-sharing? Because there was no hard man. I

:41:29. > :41:31.said it to Colin before when Martin McGuinness was invited,

:41:32. > :41:35.courageously, to the peace centre in Warrington, what you see before you

:41:36. > :41:41.is not the shadow of a gunmen, what you are seeing is a gunmen will stop

:41:42. > :41:49.there were protests outside the building. I am not sure he won many

:41:50. > :41:53.hearts and minds but it was courageous of Colin to ask him and

:41:54. > :41:58.courageous of Martin to go because the English public are less

:41:59. > :42:04.forgiving than Northern Ireland people have been. When Gerry Adams

:42:05. > :42:09.stood for the first time for election in the Irish Republic I

:42:10. > :42:14.thought the people in the constituency would dislike him for

:42:15. > :42:21.being a opportunist for blowing in but they disliked him for being an

:42:22. > :42:28.IRA man and a Provo. There is the residual thing in the Republic and

:42:29. > :42:31.in Britain. In Northern Ireland, whether people hate him or not, have

:42:32. > :42:36.forgiven him or not, they were prepared to tolerate him in

:42:37. > :42:40.government on the basis he was leading the most violent, murderous

:42:41. > :42:44.group in Northern Ireland away from that to exclusive involvement in

:42:45. > :42:49.politics and I think that will be the legacy rather more than the

:42:50. > :42:55.militant side of it but without the militant side he would not have been

:42:56. > :42:59.able to lead the hard men of republicanism out because there was

:43:00. > :43:07.no Hardyman the Martin McGuinness. Thanks, gentlemen.

:43:08. > :43:11.More reaction to the death of Martin McGuinness throughout the programme.

:43:12. > :43:14.This morning, in his first broadcast interview a father tells us his life

:43:15. > :43:16.was ruined after police officers wrongly accused him

:43:17. > :43:21.of being a paedophile - after a typo sent cops

:43:22. > :43:26.44 year old Nigel Lang, from Sheffield, was arrested

:43:27. > :43:30.on suspicion of possessing indecent images of children -

:43:31. > :43:33.his computer was seized, he wasn't allowed to see his son

:43:34. > :43:36.and he was suspended from work before being cleared.

:43:37. > :43:42.Mr Lang spent years trying to work out why he'd been arrested -

:43:43. > :43:45.and eventually discovered police had accidentally added an extra digit

:43:46. > :43:52.to an IP address lined with indecent images of children.

:43:53. > :43:57.That mistake sent police to his address, triggering

:43:58. > :44:02.what he calls the most horrendous and horrific time of his life.

:44:03. > :44:05.It's impacted on my life in a lot of significant ways.

:44:06. > :44:14.It's impacted on my family, especially my older children,

:44:15. > :44:19.If I didn't have their unwavering support, I don't think

:44:20. > :44:27.It has impacted on my mother, who was 78 at the time,

:44:28. > :44:33.and she was constantly worried for me.

:44:34. > :44:35.It's also impacted on my work and in my personal

:44:36. > :44:42.So it's impacted on me in a lot of ways.

:44:43. > :44:54.I was fearful that people would attack my children,

:44:55. > :44:59.would attack my house, would attack my family,

:45:00. > :45:02.because we hear about vigilante groups all the time when somebody's

:45:03. > :45:10.In terms of work, it impacted there, because I work

:45:11. > :45:32.Had to tell my employers and I was really embarrassed and that really

:45:33. > :45:49.hurt me. But I think the most

:45:50. > :45:52.hurtful thing was, I had to tell my employers about this,

:45:53. > :45:54.so I was really embarrassed And that's because of the nature

:45:55. > :45:59.of what you were accused of? I think it's important that people

:46:00. > :46:03.realise that when something like this happens to you,

:46:04. > :46:05.you don't know where to turn, you don't know who to turn to and,

:46:06. > :46:08.most importantly, you don't know If you're a decent person

:46:09. > :46:12.who lives a decent life, And I found that really

:46:13. > :46:15.frightening for me and I had a lot of fears for my future,

:46:16. > :46:20.because the fact that the police had put a statement on my record that

:46:21. > :46:22.said I was in possession... That has a significant impact,

:46:23. > :46:27.because it meant that I couldn't work, couldn't move

:46:28. > :46:30.from the employer that I was with. So in effect, with the police doing

:46:31. > :46:33.that, putting something like that on my record,

:46:34. > :46:35.without any evidence, basically ruined my reputation

:46:36. > :46:46.and I feel that it's I don't ever feel that I'd be able

:46:47. > :46:58.to work within that field again. In terms of my family,

:46:59. > :47:01.it had a significant impact on my youngest son because,

:47:02. > :47:03.for three weeks, I couldn't go to my house, I wasn't allowed

:47:04. > :47:07.to be anywhere near him I remember him saying to his mum,

:47:08. > :47:20."Can Daddy not come That was heart-wrenching.

:47:21. > :47:32.That was heartbreaking. And part of the reason that I've

:47:33. > :47:37.come on here today is to let the British public know that I'm

:47:38. > :47:48.an innocent person and to let professionals in my city know that

:47:49. > :47:51.I'm an innocent person and I just needed people to know

:47:52. > :47:53.that, because I didn't So if you don't have your day

:47:54. > :47:57.in court, nobody knows So I feel that I had to come

:47:58. > :48:01.on your show to tell the British public that I'm an innocent person

:48:02. > :48:06.of this crime. It was a police mistake and I think

:48:07. > :48:10.it's horrendous that when no evidence is found of you committing

:48:11. > :48:14.a crime that they can just put on your record, "Well,

:48:15. > :48:19.he was in possession of indecent images of children but no

:48:20. > :48:25.further action was taken." I find it incredible

:48:26. > :48:33.that they can do that. I feel that if the police

:48:34. > :48:36.are going to raid somebody's house and say that they're a paedophile,

:48:37. > :48:41.they need to be sure, they need to be 100% sure,

:48:42. > :48:45.because this damages your reputation, it destroys

:48:46. > :48:52.careers, it puts pressures On your relationships,

:48:53. > :48:57.especially your personal relationship, with my partner,

:48:58. > :48:59.and my older children, You don't realise what impact it's

:49:00. > :49:08.had on them because you're the one who is fighting,

:49:09. > :49:15.you're the one who is fighting the fight to clear your name,

:49:16. > :49:17.and I was just obsessed. I felt compelled to clear my name

:49:18. > :49:25.because this was far reaching. It must have consumed your

:49:26. > :49:29.every waking moment. Definitely.

:49:30. > :49:34.I couldn't stop thinking about it. Every day, I was chatting to people

:49:35. > :49:37.about it and because of It actually took three weeks,

:49:38. > :49:46.I think, for them to realise that there was nothing

:49:47. > :49:49.on your computer, there were zero But actually, it's taken years

:49:50. > :49:54.for you to find out why you were ever arrested in the first

:49:55. > :49:57.place, why your computer was seized in the first place,

:49:58. > :50:00.why you weren't allowed to see your young

:50:01. > :50:02.son for three weeks. Yeah, I think that's

:50:03. > :50:06.been the hardest thing. It's the waiting for things

:50:07. > :50:13.to happen that takes It's that that, if you like,

:50:14. > :50:22.plays on your mind and eventually grinds you down to the point

:50:23. > :50:26.where you don't feel you can even work no more,

:50:27. > :50:33.which is what happened to me. The point when I had

:50:34. > :50:37.to leave work... I was working with a vulnerable

:50:38. > :50:39.person, a vulnerable young girl, and I felt that she was behaving

:50:40. > :50:44.inappropriately towards me. Normally, I would have been able

:50:45. > :50:49.to handle that but because now I had paedophilia on my record,

:50:50. > :50:54.I started to panic. I just wondered, if she was to

:50:55. > :51:01.accuse me of anything, then the police would believe her

:51:02. > :51:08.because of what... Here's the letter from

:51:09. > :51:15.Hertfordshire Police, which says sorry to you and acknowledges

:51:16. > :51:20.their catastrophic error. "Dear Mr Lang, I would firstly

:51:21. > :51:22.like to apologise on behalf Hertfordshire Constabulary have made

:51:23. > :51:28.a mistake and you should never have been arrested on suspicion

:51:29. > :51:30.of sharing indecent I have now established

:51:31. > :51:38.that there is a typing error This extra digit completely changed

:51:39. > :51:45.the result of the request As you are aware, this unfortunately

:51:46. > :51:51.identified you as being the person When I received that letter,

:51:52. > :52:06.in certain ways I was happy, just that they'd recognised

:52:07. > :52:08.the mistake, but then I got really angry

:52:09. > :52:15.about the situation. I went into emotional turmoil,

:52:16. > :52:19.so one minute I'm happy, next minute I'm crying,

:52:20. > :52:21.next minute, the other So it's just a terrible situation

:52:22. > :52:32.you find yourself in. I thought I would have been able

:52:33. > :52:36.to move on when I got that letter Because of the nature of the arrest

:52:37. > :52:45.and what they were accusing me of, I just haven't been able

:52:46. > :52:49.to get over it. I can't work in that field again

:52:50. > :52:59.because I've got too much problems. I've been reduced to benefits

:53:00. > :53:04.because of this, which really hurts. I don't feel I can provide

:53:05. > :53:09.for my family and I don't know how my mortgage is going to be paid,

:53:10. > :53:12.all because of a police typing error, and I think that one

:53:13. > :53:15.of the most hurtful things was all the time I was telling

:53:16. > :53:19.them I was innocent, "I'm innocent of this crime," even

:53:20. > :53:24.when I went to put my complaint in, I said I was innocent of this crime,

:53:25. > :53:28.and the police felt that I had They hadn't found no

:53:29. > :53:36.evidence on my computer, they had messed up my record

:53:37. > :53:40.and you're telling me I've got I felt they were trying

:53:41. > :53:48.to blame me for taking too long They said that if I'd have come

:53:49. > :53:55.earlier, they would have been able to sort it out but because I'd left

:53:56. > :53:58.it so long, they couldn't do nothing, and then

:53:59. > :54:01.when you find out that, with the hard work

:54:02. > :54:06.that I'd put in and... with the hard work that I'd

:54:07. > :54:09.put in and, you know, going to a solicitor,

:54:10. > :54:14.paying money... If my partner didn't have

:54:15. > :54:21.that money, I don't know what I would have done,

:54:22. > :54:25.but you pay that money and then they find out

:54:26. > :54:28.that the police had made a mistake. And my argument was,

:54:29. > :54:36.why couldn't they do that? Why couldn't they

:54:37. > :54:37.investigate and find that? I recognise that the police

:54:38. > :54:46.have a hard job to do and I do recognise that they have to catch

:54:47. > :54:49.paedophiles, however I just think that, you know,

:54:50. > :54:52.when somebody comes to them or they arrest somebody

:54:53. > :54:57.and that person is denying ever doing that crime,

:54:58. > :55:03.then I feel that the police should I mean, I was screaming out

:55:04. > :55:10.that I hadn't done this They seemed more interested

:55:11. > :55:15.in getting a result, and that really hurt me,

:55:16. > :55:20.the fact that I'm screaming out innocence and you're saying that,

:55:21. > :55:23.basically, without saying it, And they knew the impact

:55:24. > :55:33.it was going to have on me straightaway, because I said

:55:34. > :55:35.to the officer, the officer who I went to see about my

:55:36. > :55:40.complaint, I said to him, "Well, if you are going to put this

:55:41. > :55:43.on my record, then I will not be able to get another job

:55:44. > :55:46.within my field. It's astonishing that you even

:55:47. > :55:57.had to point that out, That is the, kind of,

:55:58. > :56:06.Kafkaesque situation. Well, I don't know where the law

:56:07. > :56:09.stands when there is no That's where the law stands.

:56:10. > :56:18.You have received compensation. It's not going to be a consolation

:56:19. > :56:24.for what you experienced. I think it's derisory.

:56:25. > :56:31.I think it's an insult. I think that when you destroy

:56:32. > :56:36.somebody's career, as this has done, I don't think ?60,000 comes anywhere

:56:37. > :56:40.close to the suffering that I've endured and that

:56:41. > :56:45.my family's endured. I think that people need to look

:56:46. > :56:51.at that aspect again, because if somebody's career

:56:52. > :56:53.is ruined, how are they going They should get money

:56:54. > :57:02.to retrain for their career. I couldn't go back to

:57:03. > :57:07.university again to retrain - I couldn't afford it -

:57:08. > :57:11.so, to me, I think that I've just got some bad feeling,

:57:12. > :57:18.a bitter taste, about the police in regard to what

:57:19. > :57:22.happened to my life. And, like I said, the reason why

:57:23. > :57:26.I went public is because I need everybody to know that when these

:57:27. > :57:30.mistakes happen to ordinary people, they have a devastating impact,

:57:31. > :57:33.and that's why I'm here today, Thank you very much

:57:34. > :57:41.for talking to us. We appreciate your time.

:57:42. > :57:44.Thank you. Nigel Lang first told his story

:57:45. > :57:52.to Buzzfeed news and today spoke to us in his first

:57:53. > :58:00.broadcast interview. You can read more about his story on

:58:01. > :58:04.the BBC News website. Neil says, "What a shocking error." Another

:58:05. > :58:08.viewer says, "My soul goes out to this brave man." Another viewer

:58:09. > :58:13.says, "Poor man. The police have ruined his life. Blown it apart and

:58:14. > :58:16.left him to pick up the pieces. It is terrifying."

:58:17. > :58:20.Let's get the latest weather update with Carol.

:58:21. > :58:27.Good morning. Today, we are looking at a right old mixture of sunshine

:58:28. > :58:32.and wintry showers. We have seen that combination already. Some

:58:33. > :58:36.pictures to show you. This one from Barnsley. Blue skies. It wasn't like

:58:37. > :58:44.that everywhere this morning earlier. This picture from

:58:45. > :58:48.Lanarkshire. The snow has been falling through

:58:49. > :58:52.the early part of today across Scotland and Northern Ireland in

:58:53. > :58:54.particular. But we've also seen some across Northern England, Wales and

:58:55. > :58:58.south-west England, but for many of us, we are off to a dry start with a

:58:59. > :59:03.fair bit of sunshine around. Through the day too, what you'll find is the

:59:04. > :59:06.wintry element of the showers, the snow, will retreat into the hills.

:59:07. > :59:10.At lower levels you could see a little bit of hail, sleet and rain.

:59:11. > :59:13.Maybe even the odd rumble of thunder, but they will blow through

:59:14. > :59:16.quickly on the wind and there will be a lot of sunshine, but later in

:59:17. > :59:19.the south-west, what you will find is, we will see a new system coming

:59:20. > :59:24.in. That will introduce thicker cloud and some rain, a wintriness

:59:25. > :59:28.over the moors and tors and maybe wintriness over the higher ground in

:59:29. > :59:31.Wales, but a lot of dry weather too. Northern Ireland, for you, you're

:59:32. > :59:35.looking at a mixture of sunshine and showers. In Scotland, again,

:59:36. > :59:39.sunshine and a few showers, being blown along on the wind and if

:59:40. > :59:44.you're in the wind it will feel cool, but there will be quite a bit

:59:45. > :59:50.of sunshine around in the east. Showers crossing the Pennines, but

:59:51. > :59:53.for much of the country, Essex and Kent, and down to the Isle of Wight,

:59:54. > :59:57.it is a dry story, but a nippy one with the odd shower here and there.

:59:58. > :00:00.As we head on through the evening and overnight, this area of rain and

:00:01. > :00:03.windy weather continues to drift northwards. It will deposit snow on

:00:04. > :00:07.the higher routes oi cross Wales. There will be the risk of ice as

:00:08. > :00:12.well. Maybe a touch of frost. But as it engages with the cold air already

:00:13. > :00:16.ensconced across Northern England, you will find it will turn to snow

:00:17. > :00:19.even possibly at lower levels and that may affect your journey into

:00:20. > :00:25.work in the morning. Ahead of it, clear skies, cold. Cold especially

:00:26. > :00:28.in the glens of Scotland, probably minus eight to minus ten Celsius. In

:00:29. > :00:32.the South East we're looking at fours and fivesment tomorrow, we

:00:33. > :00:36.start off with the snow across northern England, but like today, it

:00:37. > :00:41.will retreat into the hills and at lower levels it will be of mostly.

:00:42. > :00:45.In Northern Ireland, cold with a north easterly wind, but drier and

:00:46. > :00:49.brighter and brighter conditions in the south.

:00:50. > :00:50.Hello. It's Tuesday.

:00:51. > :00:59.Paramilitary turned peacemaker - we have more reflections

:01:00. > :01:02.on Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness who has died aged 66

:01:03. > :01:16.I have been over 25 years working and building the peace.

:01:17. > :01:22.He was a controversial figure. This is what the father of a child who

:01:23. > :01:27.guided an IRA attack those of him. When I asked in the question of why

:01:28. > :01:31.the IRA bombed Warrington he said he didn't know. The chances are he did

:01:32. > :01:36.know. He said he did not know and he was deeply apologetic for it, not

:01:37. > :01:41.that his apologies mattered in real terms, but the fact he suggested he

:01:42. > :01:42.did not know was interesting to me. We will bring you more reaction to

:01:43. > :01:45.that story. And how a police typo ruined this

:01:46. > :01:48.man's life after he was falsely I was fearful of the people

:01:49. > :01:56.would attack my children, would attack my house,

:01:57. > :01:59.would attack my family because we hear about vigilante

:02:00. > :02:02.groups all the time when somebody You can watch the full

:02:03. > :02:07.interview back by going Joanna is in the BBC

:02:08. > :02:23.Newsroom with a summary The former deputy first minister

:02:24. > :02:26.of Northern Ireland, Martin McGuinness, has died

:02:27. > :02:28.at the age of 66. He'd been suffering

:02:29. > :02:30.from a rare heart condition. President of Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams,

:02:31. > :02:33.described him as a "passionate Republican who worked tirelessly

:02:34. > :02:37.for peace and reconciliation." Theresa May has said that the fomer

:02:38. > :02:40.IRA commander made an "essential and historic contribution"

:02:41. > :02:43.to the peace process in Northern Ireland -

:02:44. > :02:46.but she said she could "never To paint a true picture

:02:47. > :02:52.of Martin McGuinness, He was a paramilitary

:02:53. > :03:02.who once embraced violence, but also a peacemaker who reached

:03:03. > :03:05.out to rivals, a man who could be Born in Londonderry,

:03:06. > :03:10.into a large Catholic family, Martin McGuinness came of age

:03:11. > :03:15.as Northern Ireland's In that time of violence,

:03:16. > :03:20.he joined the IRA, quickly Can you say whether the bombing is

:03:21. > :03:28.likely to stop in the near future, Well, I always take

:03:29. > :03:33.into consideration the feelings The 1970s saw him become one

:03:34. > :03:39.of the faces of ruthless Irish republicanism,

:03:40. > :03:41.and he was jailed for terrorist McGuinness has changed considerably

:03:42. > :03:48.from the young man who used to swagger around the no-go areas

:03:49. > :03:50.in Londonderry, as commander What had started as a fight

:03:51. > :03:56.for civil rights had Yet, alongside the many

:03:57. > :04:03.bombings and shootings, Martin McGuinness saw opportunities

:04:04. > :04:05.at the ballot box for Sinn Fein, the political

:04:06. > :04:08.party linked to the IRA. Even then, the language

:04:09. > :04:12.of threat remained. We don't believe that winning

:04:13. > :04:14.elections, and winning any amount of votes,

:04:15. > :04:18.will bring freedom in Ireland. At the end of the day,

:04:19. > :04:21.it will be the cutting edge of IRA But, after years of killings

:04:22. > :04:25.and chaos, in the 1990s, IRA ceasefires offered

:04:26. > :04:27.the opportunity for talks Not only would they shake

:04:28. > :04:42.hands, after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement,

:04:43. > :04:43.they joined each Eventually, at its head

:04:44. > :04:49.was the unlikely partnership of two former enemies -

:04:50. > :04:54.Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness. The firebrand unionist and radical

:04:55. > :04:56.republican became so close that they were nicknamed the Chuckle

:04:57. > :05:04.Brothers. There were republicans who continued

:05:05. > :05:09.to threaten that political progress. But when a police officer

:05:10. > :05:12.was killed, the then-deputy first minister stood side-by-side

:05:13. > :05:14.with the chief constable to condemn They are traitors to

:05:15. > :05:20.the island of Ireland. Alongside the words,

:05:21. > :05:24.there were actions on all sides. The Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten

:05:25. > :05:30.was killed by the IRA. Yet, after the Troubles,

:05:31. > :05:32.royal and republican were able Thank you very much,

:05:33. > :05:36.I am still alive! However, relationships at Stormont

:05:37. > :05:44.always seemed strained after Ian Paisley stepped down

:05:45. > :05:46.as First Minister, to be replaced by Peter Robinson,

:05:47. > :05:51.and then Arlene Foster. Earlier this year, with his

:05:52. > :05:53.ill-health by then obvious, Martin McGuinness walked out

:05:54. > :05:57.of government, amid a row between Sinn Fein and the DUP,

:05:58. > :06:00.the boy from Derry's Bogside retiring as deputy first minister

:06:01. > :06:03.after years in the IRA. I've been over 25 years working

:06:04. > :06:13.and building the peace. The past actions of the IRA

:06:14. > :06:15.will colour many people's views But as a republican who worked

:06:16. > :06:21.towards reconciliation, he will be remembered as a key

:06:22. > :06:32.figure in changing Northern Ireland. Much more reaction to his death

:06:33. > :06:37.coming up on the programme. The rate of inflation has exceeded

:06:38. > :06:40.the Bank of England's two per cent target for the first

:06:41. > :06:45.time since 2013. Consumer prices leapt by 2.3

:06:46. > :06:48.per cent in February - Experts say rising food prices

:06:49. > :06:55.because of fall in the value A father has told this

:06:56. > :07:00.programme his life was ruined when police wrongly accused him

:07:01. > :07:02.of being a paedophile after a typing error sent officers

:07:03. > :07:04.to the wrong address. Nigel Lang, from Sheffield,

:07:05. > :07:06.was arrested on suspicion of possessing indecent

:07:07. > :07:11.images of children. He was subsequently suspended

:07:12. > :07:13.from work and wasn't He was eventually cleared

:07:14. > :07:19.when it was discovered that police had mistakenly added an extra digit

:07:20. > :07:21.to an IP address linked Hertfordshire Constabulary

:07:22. > :07:27.later admitted the error and apologised to Mr Lang,

:07:28. > :07:31.who was awarded compensation. He told Victoria how the ordeal

:07:32. > :07:45.affected his family. You don't realise what impact it has

:07:46. > :07:51.had on them because you are the one who is fighting, fighting the fight

:07:52. > :07:58.to clear your name and I was just a possessed. I felt compelled to clear

:07:59. > :08:00.my name, because this was far reaching.

:08:01. > :08:02.A man has been charged with the murder of a one year

:08:03. > :08:06.Bidhya Sagar Das, who's 33, is also charged with attempting

:08:07. > :08:09.to murder the boy's twin sister, who remains in a critical

:08:10. > :08:13.Both children were discovered with serious injuries

:08:14. > :08:17.at a flat near Finsbury Park on Saturday night.

:08:18. > :08:21.A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later,

:08:22. > :08:23.as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second

:08:24. > :08:28.The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask

:08:29. > :08:31.Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite

:08:32. > :08:40.the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time".

:08:41. > :08:48.More at 10:30am. Thank you for your messages about the case of Nigel

:08:49. > :08:56.Lang. You saw a clip of him in the news. The man accused of possessing

:08:57. > :09:01.indecent images of children because of a typo. Stephen says, I am a

:09:02. > :09:06.police officer and people from all walks of life make the stakes but in

:09:07. > :09:11.this case when someone's family is turned upside down surely an apology

:09:12. > :09:17.is not. People get compensated for far less. Sort this manner. Gary

:09:18. > :09:21.said he hopes the man is able to find purpose in peace and shame on

:09:22. > :09:26.the police for their obvious disregard for his human rights.

:09:27. > :09:31.Please wish Nigel Best of the future. Another says a simple typo

:09:32. > :09:36.turned his life upside down. He sounds crushed by it. It is awful.

:09:37. > :09:43.You can see the interview on the programme page. If you are getting

:09:44. > :09:45.in touch you are very welcome. The latest sport now.

:09:46. > :09:50.Here's some sport now with Olly Foster.

:09:51. > :09:56.Yesterday we looked at doping in amateur sport, and today it is about

:09:57. > :09:58.e sport. E-sports is competitive

:09:59. > :10:01.computer gaming. It's a massive industry already

:10:02. > :10:07.and is expected to double in size, breaking ?1 billion in global

:10:08. > :10:10.revenue and push its audience Paris St-Germain, the French

:10:11. > :10:18.football club, have created They don't play football games

:10:19. > :10:34.because where the real money is at the moment is in these fantasy

:10:35. > :10:38.shoot-em up or battlefield games. With millions of players online

:10:39. > :10:40.and all the commercial and sponsorship spin-offs that go

:10:41. > :10:47.with that kind of audience. The club is trying to expand into

:10:48. > :10:49.new markets. Going into markets where football cannot.

:10:50. > :10:51.Here is the e-sports analyst Peter Warman

:10:52. > :11:03.E sport compared to traditional, already audience size justifies the

:11:04. > :11:07.position in the top ten of sports worldwide and revenue wise I expect

:11:08. > :11:14.it will take them another five years but then it will be one of the top

:11:15. > :11:22.five sports in the world. I do not see a risk of e-sports being a hype.

:11:23. > :11:28.Are they healthy is the question I am supposed to ask you in a po-faced

:11:29. > :11:33.way? Would you have thought of sitting in

:11:34. > :11:38.front of a computer screen for ten hours a day, which it takes to

:11:39. > :11:47.become a top gamer is what we are concerned about. Children still want

:11:48. > :11:53.to be the next Harry Kane, Jessica Ennis-Hill, but this e-sports thing

:11:54. > :11:58.is growing and the average age of followers is 20-35, older than you

:11:59. > :12:05.might think. But they say it takes dedication and you cannot be a

:12:06. > :12:09.fatty, you have to be fit to rise to the top. There are tens of thousands

:12:10. > :12:14.in arenas watching the sport take place. There is the competitive

:12:15. > :12:21.nature of it. There are so many millions online. Children watch

:12:22. > :12:24.them. They can see them making a lot of money playing games to a high

:12:25. > :12:36.standard but how many times have I told my boy, are you sure that is

:12:37. > :12:39.enough Fifa four today? "Without him there

:12:40. > :12:41.would be no peace" - to the former deputy first minister

:12:42. > :12:45.of Northern Ireland and one-time IRA commander

:12:46. > :12:48.Martin McGuinness, who has died this He had been suffering

:12:49. > :12:52.from a rare heart condition. leader turned peacemaker worked

:12:53. > :12:55.at the heart of the power-sharing government following the 1998

:12:56. > :13:00.Good Friday Agreement. That brought an end to the troubles

:13:01. > :13:11.in Northern Ireland. Let's hear now some of the things

:13:12. > :13:14.people have been saying Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams said

:13:15. > :13:18.he was a "passionate republican who worked tirelessly for peace

:13:19. > :13:20.and reconciliation and for Throughout his life Martin showed

:13:21. > :13:23.great determination, dignity and humility and it was no

:13:24. > :13:26.different during his short illness." Prime Minister Theresa May says that

:13:27. > :13:29.while she can never condone the path Martin McGuinnness took

:13:30. > :13:33.in his early life, he "ultimately played a defining role in leading

:13:34. > :13:35.the Republican movement Former Prime Minister Tony Blair

:13:36. > :13:49.said the peace process would not have been possible

:13:50. > :14:08.without the "leadership and courage" Ian Paisley's son had this to say.

:14:09. > :14:13.It is not how you start your life that is important, it is how you

:14:14. > :14:16.finish your life and a lot of people will be thankful Martin McGuinness

:14:17. > :14:21.finished his life a lot better than it would have been. Victims

:14:22. > :14:26.campaigner Alan Wright, whose wife was killed in an IRA bomb, said

:14:27. > :14:31.Northern Ireland owes a gratitude to Martin McGuinness. His fingerprints

:14:32. > :14:38.are all over the troubles, but also over the peace process. Lord Tebbit

:14:39. > :14:42.was one of those injured by an Ray Ban in 1984. He told us that the

:14:43. > :14:46.world was a sweeter place without Martin McGuinness in it and he

:14:47. > :14:50.described Martin McGuinness as a coward. We can speak now to

:14:51. > :15:02.politicians who worked closely with him. Lord Hain.

:15:03. > :15:10.We're also joined from Westminster by the SDLP MP Mark Durkan,

:15:11. > :15:12.who was Deputy First Minister from 2001-2 and leader

:15:13. > :15:18.who has spent much of his career reporting on Northern Ireland

:15:19. > :15:23.and first met Martin McGuinness shortly after Bloody Sunday in 1972.

:15:24. > :15:32.Where British soldiers shot civilians.

:15:33. > :15:41.Lord Hain how would you reflect on the life of Martin McGuinness? In

:15:42. > :15:44.the settlement we negotiated in 2007, that you'll remember brought

:15:45. > :15:50.Martin McGuinness together with Ian Paisley. Bitter old enemies. It was

:15:51. > :15:55.hard work achieving that negotiated settlement, but they were able to

:15:56. > :15:59.rule as First Minister and Deputy First Ministers joint leaders of the

:16:00. > :16:05.Northern Ireland Government together very effectively bringing a sense of

:16:06. > :16:10.reconciliation between bitter old enemies who had never actually even

:16:11. > :16:15.exchanged a word between each other prior to the negotiations in which I

:16:16. > :16:19.was involved under Tony Blair. And that conversion of Martin

:16:20. > :16:24.McGuinness from paramilitary to peacemaker, you're clear that was

:16:25. > :16:30.genuine? Oh yes, it was. I think it dated back from the time when the

:16:31. > :16:36.IRA and Martin McGuinness was a leader of the IRA. He made no secret

:16:37. > :16:42.of that when he and Gerry Adams decided working with John Hume and

:16:43. > :16:47.the SDLP and others that there was no way in which the bomb and the

:16:48. > :16:54.bullet and the terror of the IRA could actually defeat the British

:16:55. > :16:59.Army and kick Northern Ireland into a united Ireland. That they had to

:17:00. > :17:03.pursue a democratic path. Equally at that period, the British Government

:17:04. > :17:09.decided it couldn't defeat them, the IRA militarily. So there was a

:17:10. > :17:12.moving together, a convergence to recognise that a negotiated

:17:13. > :17:17.settlement, it took a long time to achieve would be the only way

:17:18. > :17:22.forward and in that respect, Martin McGuinness was crucial. His

:17:23. > :17:27.conversion to the democratic path from the paramilitary path, from the

:17:28. > :17:30.harror and terror of the IRA into working together with former

:17:31. > :17:35.unionist foes and other politicians in the Northern Ireland Government

:17:36. > :17:41.was a part of Northern Ireland's transition in which many politicians

:17:42. > :17:47.played their role, but he was very important with the grass-roots IRA

:17:48. > :17:53.credibility amongst republicans to persuade them to give up the war, to

:17:54. > :17:57.sign up to support justice and support for policing and the rule of

:17:58. > :18:01.law in Northern Ireland, and to move forward together with their old

:18:02. > :18:07.enemies. Thank you, Lord Hain. Mark Durkan, how did you find Martin

:18:08. > :18:12.McGuinness? Well, obviously as someone who is based in Derry,

:18:13. > :18:18.Martin McGuinness was my constituent but he certainly didn't vote for me

:18:19. > :18:27.and made that very clear! But one who I worked with over many years

:18:28. > :18:31.going back to Hume-Adams days and he was someone who was a tough

:18:32. > :18:34.opponent. He's someone who would have been sceptical of arguments

:18:35. > :18:39.that were put in front of him and would have to be convinced himself

:18:40. > :18:43.before he would take it upon himself to convince others, but we had that

:18:44. > :18:47.sense throughout the peace process that if we could keep going, even

:18:48. > :18:51.though the violence was still continuing while the dialogue went

:18:52. > :18:56.on, that we could get to a point where we would get a cessation of

:18:57. > :19:01.violence and that could create the context in which there would be

:19:02. > :19:05.negotiations and while Martin was sceptical of the idea that we could

:19:06. > :19:10.get an agreement that the Irish people north and south would endorse

:19:11. > :19:14.and that would transform the arguments around violence the fact

:19:15. > :19:19.is once he became persuaded he became a very active persuader

:19:20. > :19:23.himself. So we saw him then embrace not just the talks process, but the

:19:24. > :19:27.agreement and the fact that it got a mandate from the people of Ireland

:19:28. > :19:31.and he was someone who in public office reflected not just his own

:19:32. > :19:35.party's mandate about which he was understandably precious, but he also

:19:36. > :19:39.made a point of constantly reflecting the mandate that the

:19:40. > :19:44.people of Ireland had given to the agreement as well and that was one

:19:45. > :19:46.of the things that meant that he used public office towards

:19:47. > :19:54.reconciliation in a very positive way. Thank you. Mark Durkan SDLP,

:19:55. > :19:59.MP. Peter Taylor, journalist and broadcaster, when did you first meet

:20:00. > :20:02.Martin McGuinness? In 1972 shortly after Bloody Sunday, it was my

:20:03. > :20:07.introduction to the Irish conflict. I remember meeting him in the

:20:08. > :20:10.gasworks in the Bogside and I had a long talk with him. I got in touch

:20:11. > :20:16.with him because John Hume had pointed him out and said he's the

:20:17. > :20:20.person you ought to be speaking to. He struck me as being highly intell

:20:21. > :20:24.jept, very articulate and he was only 22 at the time and I always

:20:25. > :20:28.remember he said to me, I would much rather be washing my car and mowing

:20:29. > :20:36.the lawn on a Sunday than doing what I'm doing! I didn't go into detail

:20:37. > :20:42.about what he was doing. If you told me then he then that he would go on

:20:43. > :20:46.to become the most powerful IRA leader throughout most of the 40

:20:47. > :20:51.years, but also Deputy First Minister and somebody who donned

:20:52. > :20:55.white tie and tails to dine with Her Majesty the Queen at Windsor Castle,

:20:56. > :20:57.I would have thought it was just fantasy and impossible, but of

:20:58. > :21:05.course, that's what happened. And he is as you know, as others have said,

:21:06. > :21:13.he was the central figure in persuading the IRA rank and file to

:21:14. > :21:17.basically abandon the Holy Grail of the IRA and not to abandon it

:21:18. > :21:20.because they still wanted it achieve a united Ireland, but to go into

:21:21. > :21:25.power sharing at Stormont, as a means to an end of ultimaty

:21:26. > :21:30.persuading unionists to come on board and then achieve hopefully

:21:31. > :21:35.achieve their republican gold of a united Ireland. So it's a remarkable

:21:36. > :21:43.Europeany... And he was able to do it because he was one of them? Yes.

:21:44. > :21:46.He had the credibility. Again, I remember one senior IRA volunteer,

:21:47. > :21:49.because that's what they're known as volunteers, saying to me when I

:21:50. > :21:57.asked this person and others about how they felt, how the rank and file

:21:58. > :22:01.felt about going into Stormont and effectively accepting partition

:22:02. > :22:04.which is what it was, and he said, "If it's good enough for Martin,

:22:05. > :22:09.it's good enough for me and good enough for most of us." His great

:22:10. > :22:11.achievement is that he was able to persuade, because of the kind of

:22:12. > :22:16.person he was, because of his charisma and his leadership and his

:22:17. > :22:21.strategy, you must never forget that he was, I've always believed the

:22:22. > :22:26.most senior IRA man in the island of Ireland. It was because of that

:22:27. > :22:29.personality assisted and aaided by his partner Gerry Adams, you must

:22:30. > :22:35.never forget this work because they were a duo, were able to bring the

:22:36. > :22:43.IRA, Sinn Fein, into the peace process. And in the critical back

:22:44. > :22:47.channel talks that were the prerequisite of the IRA ceasefire

:22:48. > :22:52.that took place in the early 1990s which the Brits have been working on

:22:53. > :22:59.for 20 years in the shadows, it was Martin McGuinness that the MI6

:23:00. > :23:03.officer Michael Oatly first met and that's when Michael Oakley, the MI6

:23:04. > :23:08.officer, realised there was an opportunity of dialogue and Martin

:23:09. > :23:11.McGuinness also took the message back from Michael Oakley on behalf

:23:12. > :23:15.of MI6, the British Government, that some arrangement could be done. It

:23:16. > :23:21.was Martin McGuinness who was the key interlocutor for the IRA and the

:23:22. > :23:27.IRA's Army Council. So it is a remarkable story. I doubt if we

:23:28. > :23:31.would be where we are today where it not for Martin McGuinness, but one

:23:32. > :23:36.must never forget his role as an IRA leader. Now people say, many people

:23:37. > :23:40.say, many loyalists say, unionists, say he is a man with blood on his

:23:41. > :23:44.hands, what did he do? There are very few people who know precisely

:23:45. > :23:49.what he did do, but I suspect there was little that the IRA did in

:23:50. > :23:55.Northern Ireland because at one stage he was the acting head of

:23:56. > :24:01.Northern Command, that did not know what he was responsible for and

:24:02. > :24:05.certainly, when it came to the identification of suspected

:24:06. > :24:10.informers, and agents, British agents within the IRA, those who had

:24:11. > :24:15.been turned by British intelligence, I think Martin McGuinness would have

:24:16. > :24:20.known who they were, he would have been kept informed and I suspect

:24:21. > :24:25.because also he was allegedly a member of the Army Council, he would

:24:26. > :24:31.be one of those who had to give the thumbs down that the person had to

:24:32. > :24:34.be quotes executed or murdered. Incredibly power and influential

:24:35. > :24:38.figure and his legacy is assured. There have been others too who have

:24:39. > :24:43.gone from, "Terrorist to politician." But in terms of our

:24:44. > :24:45.experience over the past 40 years, there has been nobody like him.

:24:46. > :24:50.Thank you very much. Thank you. Peter Taylor.

:24:51. > :24:53.Next this morning, it's estimated that at least 1,400 children

:24:54. > :24:54.were subjected to appalling sexual exploitation and

:24:55. > :24:59.Dozens of suspects are still being investigated by the in the town

:25:00. > :25:02.after more than 15 years of widespread child sexual abuse.

:25:03. > :25:05.Girls as young as 12 were raped, abducted and tortured

:25:06. > :25:08.by gangs of predominantly British Pakistani men.

:25:09. > :25:11.Now the BBC's Asian Network and this programme have been given exclusive

:25:12. > :25:14.access to a therapy session for some of those victims and their families.

:25:15. > :25:23.They've been talking to Rickin Majithia.

:25:24. > :25:28.Rotherham is a small town with large scars.

:25:29. > :25:31.Between 1997 and 2013, at least 1,400 young girls

:25:32. > :25:35.were abused here, largely by gangs of British Pakistani men.

:25:36. > :25:38.It's expected to take many years before all of the culprits

:25:39. > :25:41.For the victims and their families, though, the pain is likely

:25:42. > :25:46.But there is one place where they can come together for support.

:25:47. > :25:49.We've been given exclusive access to a group therapy session.

:25:50. > :25:54.It's the first time cameras have been allowed in.

:25:55. > :26:05.She's worked with children in Rotherham for decades and first

:26:06. > :26:07.helped to expose the scale of the abuse.

:26:08. > :26:10.What we decided to do, probably about a year ago now,

:26:11. > :26:12.is put together some therapy sessions, so we offer

:26:13. > :26:17.We have a counsellor outside so people can actually

:26:18. > :26:19.go into counselling, relive some of their awful

:26:20. > :26:22.experiences, get the support they need and then come back

:26:23. > :26:24.into the group and the group will work with them and help

:26:25. > :26:30.The therapy provides a unique opportunity for victims

:26:31. > :26:40.I was being raped upon raped by numerous men, not knowing exactly

:26:41. > :26:43.what's going off with me because I'd been spiked by drugs

:26:44. > :26:51.Being able to relate to other people and understand that the things that

:26:52. > :26:56.I went through are very similar to the things that they have been

:26:57. > :27:03.through automatically helps me because it

:27:04. > :27:08.I was led to believe from a young age that it was my fault.

:27:09. > :27:10.More confident and I'm more open about things now,

:27:11. > :27:21.The families of abuse victims also come here to receive support.

:27:22. > :27:23.It's like you're walking round like a zombie.

:27:24. > :27:26.You've got no heart and you've no brain because you just

:27:27. > :27:29.don't know where to turn, how to feel, but inside your

:27:30. > :27:37.The only help we've had, and it saved not only me as a father,

:27:38. > :27:39.it saved our family, and without this place,

:27:40. > :27:45.Some of the parents find that they now struggle to trust

:27:46. > :27:52.I worry about the relationship she's been in since her exploitation.

:27:53. > :27:55.She were groomed at 13 and she's never actually had the opportunity

:27:56. > :27:58.to develop the normal healthy relationships that she would have if

:27:59. > :28:05.So, you know, she's going to struggle to realise

:28:06. > :28:08.what is a safe relationship that somebody cares about her,

:28:09. > :28:13.you know, that she is loved, and that's going to take

:28:14. > :28:19.a while and it will come and it's going to be difficult,

:28:20. > :28:23.and is going to be difficult for you as a mum because what you're

:28:24. > :28:26.also going to do as well is every boyfriend that she ever walks

:28:27. > :28:28.through the door with, you're going to be suspicious

:28:29. > :28:32.and you're going to judge them based on what she went through as a child.

:28:33. > :28:37.This girl, who we're calling Lizzie, attends with her parents.

:28:38. > :28:40.In 2010, five men were jailed for abusing her and other girls

:28:41. > :28:45.It's understood that all have since been released.

:28:46. > :28:50.These are her parents. We're calling them Phil and Sally.

:28:51. > :28:54.She doesn't like being in Rotherham. She doesn't feel comfortable at all.

:28:55. > :28:57.I don't know what it is, it must be anxiety or whatever,

:28:58. > :29:00.She won't go out anywhere, won't do anything.

:29:01. > :29:04.She just felt it better for herself that she was out of town.

:29:05. > :29:08.I think she still doesn't feel safe. I don't know what it is.

:29:09. > :29:16.How have centres and programmes like the one here helped you to overcome

:29:17. > :29:20.It's the only place that does a family therapy class.

:29:21. > :29:23.At the time, you don't think of how it affects...

:29:24. > :29:26.I didn't think of how it affects my husband,

:29:27. > :29:29.and then when I didn't realise how bad it had affected him,

:29:30. > :29:32.I felt a bit selfish because it affects a whole

:29:33. > :29:40.When it's going off, all your focus is just on the girl

:29:41. > :29:48.Another woman who attends the sessions is Lisa,

:29:49. > :29:52.As a young girl, she was groomed by a gang of men.

:29:53. > :30:05.I were left there for 24 hours, 48 hours.

:30:06. > :30:08.Last month, six men were collectively jailed

:30:09. > :30:14.In a statement in court, Lisa described them as pure evil.

:30:15. > :30:19.It's been more than 15 years since he was sexually exploited.

:30:20. > :30:21.Has their sentence given you a sense of finality to this?

:30:22. > :30:30.Since I found that they were found guilty, my anxiety and depression

:30:31. > :30:34.and everything just started to disappear slowly.

:30:35. > :30:36.I feel so positive and empowered now that I'm finally

:30:37. > :30:43.using my horrific experience for something good.

:30:44. > :30:45.Your daughter is now a teenager herself.

:30:46. > :30:48.What fears do you have about her growing up in Rotherham?

:30:49. > :30:57.I am quite aware of everything that is still going on and that

:30:58. > :31:01.is a big fear for me, because you would think that such

:31:02. > :31:04.an explosion of what's happened and it being all over the press

:31:05. > :31:12.That scares me for her and not just her, my other children,

:31:13. > :31:15.It scares me for the future generations because it's not

:31:16. > :31:21.The whole situation needs to be highlighted properly.

:31:22. > :31:26.They need to cover it properly with people that

:31:27. > :31:33.We understand what's gone off, we understand what needs

:31:34. > :31:37.to be done and the way that we would like to have been

:31:38. > :31:40.approached as a family back then, so why not utilise that?

:31:41. > :31:42.Why not utilise victims, survivors and utilise

:31:43. > :31:44.the way that we know that we would like to

:31:45. > :31:52.So now the victims and their families are taking it upon

:31:53. > :31:59.They're visiting businesses that operate at night to teach them

:32:00. > :32:01.how to spot the signs of sexual exploitation.

:32:02. > :32:04.Investigations into Elisabeth's case are still active but that hasn't

:32:05. > :32:08.stopped her and her father from coming to this takeaway.

:32:09. > :32:10.Have you seen anything recently what's worried you?

:32:11. > :32:16.Yes, there's been a few times where I've had to walk people home

:32:17. > :32:20.for their safety because I've seen people around who have had eyes

:32:21. > :32:23.on younger children so I've decided to walk them home,

:32:24. > :32:29.purely out of choice, just to make sure they are safer,

:32:30. > :32:32.and also it's little things we do for the environment that matters,

:32:33. > :32:39.As a community, how do you think it's impacted on...?

:32:40. > :32:43.Well, racial-wise, what happens in Rotherham,

:32:44. > :32:46.what happened in Rotherham, again, Asian people mostly are being

:32:47. > :32:52.And it just defines exactly what's going on in the world as well,

:32:53. > :32:54.you know, how a minority makes mistakes and the majority

:32:55. > :33:04.Overall in the world, the same thing's happening,

:33:05. > :33:07.which is an unfortunate thing, but it's just who people are.

:33:08. > :33:09.Do you think that this programme what's being launched

:33:10. > :33:11.is going to help fetch the community back together?

:33:12. > :33:17.It doesn't matter for us whether you're white,

:33:18. > :33:23.Asian or whatever it give it means we can make a difference and bring

:33:24. > :33:26.one child's life back together and save it before it happens,

:33:27. > :33:28.it just means the world to us, and whether the community

:33:29. > :33:33.I hope it does happen, because it will just show a stronger

:33:34. > :33:37.You can't make a sound with one hand.

:33:38. > :33:40.It's got to be together, you know, to make a sound.

:33:41. > :33:43.That's what matters and that's what will make a difference.

:33:44. > :33:47.Given what happened to your family, how does it feel when you come

:33:48. > :33:49.to a place like this with your daughter to educate

:33:50. > :33:51.businesses about child sexual exploitation?

:33:52. > :33:58.The simple reason is, it just doesn't happen

:33:59. > :34:01.in the Asian community - it happens in the white

:34:02. > :34:10.And what we've got to do from now on is put that to one side and look

:34:11. > :34:23.More on that on the Asian Network throughout the day.

:34:24. > :34:27.With the news, here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom.

:34:28. > :34:29.Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness, Northern Ireland's former

:34:30. > :34:31.deputy first minister, has died aged 66.

:34:32. > :34:33.It's understood he had been suffering from

:34:34. > :34:39.The former IRA leader turned peacemaker worked at the heart

:34:40. > :34:40.of the power-sharing government following the 1998

:34:41. > :34:44.He became deputy first minister in 2007, standing alongside

:34:45. > :34:47.Democratic Unionist Party leaders Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson

:34:48. > :34:55.But he stood down from his post in January in protest

:34:56. > :34:58.against the DUP's handling of an energy scandal, in a move that

:34:59. > :35:03.Tony Blair, who was Prime Minister when the Good Friday Agreement

:35:04. > :35:13.was signed in 1998, has been speaking to the BBC this morning.

:35:14. > :35:18.Martin McGuinness had been determined to give Northern Ireland

:35:19. > :35:22.a different future despite his violent past. Some people will

:35:23. > :35:27.remember him as a man-of-war, who can never forget the violence of his

:35:28. > :35:33.early years, but for those of us who helped put together the Northern

:35:34. > :35:40.Ireland peace process with him, we will remember his legacy as a man of

:35:41. > :35:43.peace, a person whose courage and determination and leadership in the

:35:44. > :35:50.end brought us from the situation where every day people were either

:35:51. > :35:54.being injured or killed as a result of the troubles, to a place today

:35:55. > :35:58.where it is possible to talk of a genuine peace in Northern Ireland.

:35:59. > :36:01.The rate of inflation has exceeded the Bank of England's two per cent

:36:02. > :36:03.target for the first time since 2013.

:36:04. > :36:05.Consumer prices leapt by 2.3 per cent in February -

:36:06. > :36:12.Experts say rising food prices because of fall in the value

:36:13. > :36:21.A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later,

:36:22. > :36:24.as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second

:36:25. > :36:28.The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask

:36:29. > :36:30.Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite

:36:31. > :36:39.the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time".

:36:40. > :36:50.Join me for BBC newsroom live at 11. And now the sport. Jamie Vardy said

:36:51. > :36:54.he received death threats from fans who hold him responsible for the

:36:55. > :36:58.sacking of Claudio Ranieri. He said he has been terrified and his family

:36:59. > :37:03.targeted after reports he was one of the players who influenced the

:37:04. > :37:13.decision to let Claudio Ranieri go. Manchester United midfielder Bastian

:37:14. > :37:22.Schweinsteiger will join an MLS team. Canadian team Toronto Wolfpack

:37:23. > :37:26.will play the Salford Red Devils in rugby league's challenge cup.

:37:27. > :37:30.Toronto beat championship side London Broncos in the last round.

:37:31. > :37:36.Lewis Hamilton team-mate Valtteri Bottas said he has no intention of

:37:37. > :37:40.being the number two driver and Mercedes. He replaced Nico Rosberg

:37:41. > :37:45.who retired after winning the World Championship. The first race of the

:37:46. > :37:49.season is next Sunday in Melbourne. I will be back after 11.

:37:50. > :37:52.To say that Martin McGuiness was a divisive figure

:37:53. > :37:54.is an understatement - a man of war who became

:37:55. > :37:58.A former IRA commander who became one of the architects

:37:59. > :38:01.of the agreement that was ultimately to bring an end to the decades

:38:02. > :38:06.He grew up in Derry's Bogside, radicalised by what he saw

:38:07. > :38:12.as discrimination and murder on the streets of his city.

:38:13. > :38:18.We believe that the only way that Irish people can bring about the

:38:19. > :38:21.freedom of their country is through the use of armed struggle.

:38:22. > :38:24.I wish it could be done in another way.

:38:25. > :38:26.If someone could tell me a peaceful way

:38:27. > :38:29.to do it, then I would gladly support that.

:38:30. > :38:34.He had a leading role in the IRA during the time

:38:35. > :38:37.the paramilitary organisation was bombing his home city.

:38:38. > :38:40.This is him addressing a rally in Tyrone, which had one of the most

:38:41. > :38:43.active republican paramilitary groups, at the height

:38:44. > :38:56.Republican people of Tyrone I am honoured to be with you to

:38:57. > :39:03.commemorate and pay tribute to the volunteers of the Irish Republican

:39:04. > :39:09.Army in this historic county who gave their lives in every generation

:39:10. > :39:13.in Ireland struggle for freedom. In doing so we are in union with

:39:14. > :39:21.Republicans in every part of Ireland in the ring the freedom fighters of

:39:22. > :39:23.the IRA who selflessly gave everything in our continued struggle

:39:24. > :39:24.against foreign occupation and domination.

:39:25. > :39:26.He went on to work at the heart of the power-sharing

:39:27. > :39:28.government following the 1998 Good Friday Agreement

:39:29. > :39:31.which eventually led to this famous handshake with the Queen and a toast

:39:32. > :39:39.By 2007, he was Northern Ireland's deputy first minister standing

:39:40. > :39:41.alongside his one time bitter political rival from

:39:42. > :39:47.the Democratic Unionst Party, First Minister Ian Paisley.

:39:48. > :39:53.Many people in this hall today played an important part in our

:39:54. > :39:56.peace process, and many others, unfortunately, could not be with us

:39:57. > :40:02.And I want to send to them our warmest thanks.

:40:03. > :40:05.We will continue to rely on that support as we strive

:40:06. > :40:08.towards a society moving from division

:40:09. > :40:10.and disharmony to one which

:40:11. > :40:14.celebrates our diversity and is determined to provide a better

:40:15. > :40:25.One which cherishes the elderly, the vulnerable, the young

:40:26. > :40:29.and all of our children equally, which welcomes

:40:30. > :40:32.warmly those from other lands and cultures who wish to join us and

:40:33. > :40:36.A society which remembers those who have lost

:40:37. > :40:50.Martin McGuinness resigned as deputy first minister

:40:51. > :40:52.in the Northern Ireland assembly at the beginning of the year

:40:53. > :40:55.in protest against the Democratic Unionist Party's handling

:40:56. > :40:57.of an energy scandal, which eventually triggered

:40:58. > :41:04.During his last press conference, Mr McGuinness

:41:05. > :41:06.During his last press conference, Mr McGuinness appeared frail.

:41:07. > :41:09.He died in hospital in his home city of Londonderry early this morning,

:41:10. > :41:14.We can speak now to the former Conservative leader

:41:15. > :41:22.Iain Duncan Smith, who served as a soldier in Northern Ireland

:41:23. > :41:27.and to Lord Bew, who's Professor of Irish Politics

:41:28. > :41:30.at Queen's University Belfast and was also historical adviser

:41:31. > :41:41.That looked into the events of Bloody Sunday where British soldiers

:41:42. > :41:44.shot 26 unarmed civilians during a peaceful protest. Iain Duncan Smith,

:41:45. > :41:51.your reflections on Martin McGuinness. He will divide opinion

:41:52. > :41:58.enormously. There will be people who hark back to his time in the IRA

:41:59. > :42:06.where he was no doubt responsible for a series of bombings and

:42:07. > :42:09.outrages that lost many people'slives, their families, and

:42:10. > :42:13.even Norman Tebbit today was on television talking about how he

:42:14. > :42:17.considers him to be a murderer. At the same time we want also to

:42:18. > :42:23.remember at some point he decided this didn't succeed and they had to

:42:24. > :42:27.formulate the peace process with the others and that has been what we

:42:28. > :42:32.hold onto now most dear, that the next generation should not face what

:42:33. > :42:37.my generation and people living in Northern Ireland, the army and

:42:38. > :42:41.police faced, in Birmingham, Manchester, London, where there were

:42:42. > :42:47.bombings and people still seek justice for their lost ones. It is

:42:48. > :42:54.not a time to say you have to think of him as a peacemaker. I simply say

:42:55. > :42:57.whatever your judgment, we have to give thanks in this sense Martin

:42:58. > :43:00.McGuinness decided the road to peace was the road he should now take and

:43:01. > :43:10.with that I believe the peace process came about and I give thanks

:43:11. > :43:15.for that. Lord Bew, as a professor of Irish politics, how will history

:43:16. > :43:20.remember him? I would like to echo the last point made. The last time I

:43:21. > :43:26.saw Martin McGuinness was in the summer, when he was speaking at

:43:27. > :43:29.Glentoran football club, in the heart of Protestant east Belfast,

:43:30. > :43:36.and he spoke with such eloquence and was very well received. It is a good

:43:37. > :43:41.memory. People sometimes say not much has changed in Northern

:43:42. > :43:45.Ireland. I recall that event, a dramatic change. Everybody and

:43:46. > :43:50.Martin himself was honest about this, saying he was a member of the

:43:51. > :43:56.IRA. There is a key question about that early involve them. There is a

:43:57. > :44:01.tendency to act set it as in voluntary. There is human agency and

:44:02. > :44:06.it is not just that people like John Hume opposed the path to violence

:44:07. > :44:16.and sectarianism, it is the fact radicals in Derry like Eamon McCann,

:44:17. > :44:21.and others look at their testimony about this period when the IRA gets

:44:22. > :44:25.off the ground. There is a question of choices made. Were people who

:44:26. > :44:30.wanted change in Northern Ireland who did not make the choice for

:44:31. > :44:36.violence and we should respect them as well at this moment. Some have

:44:37. > :44:43.said this morning that the peace process, going back further, the

:44:44. > :44:47.ceasefire that was brokered in 1994, four years before the Good Friday

:44:48. > :44:52.Agreement, could not have been done without Martin McGuinness, do you

:44:53. > :44:56.agree? There is no question he was critical to that process because of

:44:57. > :45:02.course he was the man making in some senses the biggest journey. Having

:45:03. > :45:06.served in the Bogside, I lost friends as a result of the troubles

:45:07. > :45:12.and there are many families in Britain who have done so, and so the

:45:13. > :45:16.idea of peace is important, very tangible and hanging onto it and

:45:17. > :45:20.getting it right is correct. Moving over to do that, the answer is yes,

:45:21. > :45:25.but there were many people who did not choose the road to violence as a

:45:26. > :45:30.way to this, so there will be divided opinion but my sense is we

:45:31. > :45:36.have a peace process that happened because the majority of the IRA led

:45:37. > :45:41.by McGuinness decided to lay down arms and to never again take them up

:45:42. > :45:45.and this is the key element we have to hold onto for the next

:45:46. > :45:51.generation, because it is horrific the idea of a democratic country

:45:52. > :45:55.including Northern Ireland could go through such horror because people

:45:56. > :45:58.refuse to accept there is a rule of law and there is a better way to do

:45:59. > :46:02.this and I hope we will never return to that again.

:46:03. > :46:08.You're Chair of the Committee on standards in public life and on

:46:09. > :46:10.Thursday you will be discussing the appointment of George Osborne,

:46:11. > :46:16.former chancellor, and Conservative MP for Tatton as editor of the

:46:17. > :46:20.London Evening Standard. Is there a conflict of interest between being

:46:21. > :46:25.an MP, Conservative MP and editor of a newspaper? Look, there is a great

:46:26. > :46:30.public debate about that particular case and point. My committee is much

:46:31. > :46:34.more concerned with the actual issue, not any personality. It's our

:46:35. > :46:40.job to deal with the issue. The issue is that in 2009 we recommended

:46:41. > :46:44.a particular way of dealing with MPs who had second jobs and we

:46:45. > :46:50.recommended a compromise. The question is in the light of

:46:51. > :46:54.increased public debate whether or not, where we're going to stand on

:46:55. > :46:58.that? It is not an individual case that concerns us. It is really not

:46:59. > :47:03.our role to respond too much to directly individual cases. It's our

:47:04. > :47:09.role to deal with the broader issue and there is now an issue about

:47:10. > :47:12.whether or not our ruling in 2009 which was that as long as MPs told

:47:13. > :47:16.their constituents at the time of election that they might have this

:47:17. > :47:20.or that second job, whether it should stand and there is a very

:47:21. > :47:24.good argument in favour of that at the time, we need people with wider

:47:25. > :47:29.experience in Parliament or whether or not there are requirements and so

:47:30. > :47:35.on. But that's now, that's the issue for us, not an individual case, but

:47:36. > :47:42.that deep issue about MPs and second jobs and... I understand. Let me ask

:47:43. > :47:47.about the broader issue. Can you be an MP and have five different jobs?

:47:48. > :47:53.That's obviously part of the discussion. There is now... What do

:47:54. > :47:58.you think? I'm, I've got a committee now which will be nine people and I

:47:59. > :48:01.want them to have to be able to say precisely what they think. We've

:48:02. > :48:04.read everything. We are well aware of the intensity of the public

:48:05. > :48:06.debate, but it is the job of the committee as a committee which

:48:07. > :48:11.includes representatives of the three main parties to come to some

:48:12. > :48:15.kind of consensus and it doesn't help if the chairman starts saying

:48:16. > :48:21.too much in pick before our meeting on Thursday. Should he have referred

:48:22. > :48:28.this appointment to you first before it was publicly announced? No, the

:48:29. > :48:33.issue here and it is part of our remit on this point is the committee

:48:34. > :48:37.which deals with these matters. They have a particular role. It is

:48:38. > :48:42.certainly our view that the work of that committee should be respected

:48:43. > :48:47.and facilitated by everybody. It is a light touch attempt to regulate

:48:48. > :48:51.and reach requirements because people are leaving politics younger

:48:52. > :48:55.these days and people do have a right to earn a living and that

:48:56. > :48:59.committee has played a very substantial role in very difficult

:49:00. > :49:04.circumstances. Are you disappointed he didn't refer it to them? I will

:49:05. > :49:07.simply. Well, no, there is a question mark and a timeline and

:49:08. > :49:10.there is a debate about that. I will simply say that our committee firmly

:49:11. > :49:16.believes that that committee should be treated with great respect

:49:17. > :49:20.because it's trying to do a very difficult job in the public

:49:21. > :49:25.interest. The inference there is you don't think it has been treated with

:49:26. > :49:28.respect? There are details this all these cases which complicate the

:49:29. > :49:32.matters because unfortunately in this area, there are always

:49:33. > :49:37.complications. There are always special twists and people always

:49:38. > :49:45.have different views. But if you're asking me does the Committee on

:49:46. > :49:53.Standards have a role in defending bodies like IPSA or ACO BA who have

:49:54. > :49:57.to make difficult choices, when sometimes the public are in an

:49:58. > :50:00.impatient and angry mood, I do believe those bodies should really

:50:01. > :50:04.be respected because everybody connected with them is trying their

:50:05. > :50:08.best to deal with difficult issues which there is no simple solution

:50:09. > :50:13.to. Can you be clear on this - your committee is going to have to review

:50:14. > :50:18.the rules as a result of some MPs taking more than one job. Yes. As

:50:19. > :50:23.well as being an MP? We're committed to a debate and review. I've said we

:50:24. > :50:31.have to now, as a committee, which and I hope the committee will be

:50:32. > :50:35.able to reach a way forward. We now have to look at, we cannot say that

:50:36. > :50:41.we have a situation exactly as it is in 2009. If only, leave this case

:50:42. > :50:44.out of the matter. We have to take into account the public opinion and

:50:45. > :50:47.the polling the committee used to draw on which was much more divided

:50:48. > :50:52.on this issue. Now public opinion has changed. It doesn't mean you buy

:50:53. > :50:56.down before it, before the polling which the committee drew on in the

:50:57. > :51:00.past is not quite in the same place. It is not in the same place. The

:51:01. > :51:05.public is much more spentical. This again doesn't mean we bow down

:51:06. > :51:08.before it. It does mean we've reached the point where we have to

:51:09. > :51:13.have a review and a debate about these issues. I understand. Will as

:51:14. > :51:18.part of your review, your committee be looking at whether MPs should

:51:19. > :51:23.have second jobs at all? Look, if you're going to have a debate,

:51:24. > :51:28.you've got on the one side, there is the very strong belief of many

:51:29. > :51:32.people and I saw it forcefully stated in the Times editorial

:51:33. > :51:36.yesterday. Saying that you know we have too many purely professional

:51:37. > :51:40.politicians, the public hates the idea that we have people who have

:51:41. > :51:43.done nothing in their life, but politics in Parliament and if you

:51:44. > :51:47.have people who have got medical or legal experience, they are likely to

:51:48. > :51:50.want to carry it on in some way in Parliament. So you've got the

:51:51. > :51:53.balance between that argument which has to be taken seriously and the

:51:54. > :51:57.balance of keeping elder states with the politics if you can and the

:51:58. > :52:00.other argument we have to take into account which is the argument that

:52:01. > :52:05.in fact a lot of the public believe and there is an argument that, that

:52:06. > :52:09.the salaries of MPs have risen, we have to take the counter arguments

:52:10. > :52:12.into account that believe that MPs shouldn't have second jobsment you

:52:13. > :52:15.can't have a debate and say there is a certain line of argument that we

:52:16. > :52:20.exclude from discussion. That will not happen. There are nine lively

:52:21. > :52:25.people who will be discussing this on my committee on Thursday. And

:52:26. > :52:29.they're not going to accept that there is some kind of view which is

:52:30. > :52:37.so out landishly radical it can't be heard. Thank you very much.

:52:38. > :52:44.Should Scotland have a second referendum on independence?

:52:45. > :52:46.The issue is being debated in the Scottish Parliament today.

:52:47. > :52:52.Nicola Sturgeon's SNP party wants to hold another vote in the autumn

:52:53. > :52:55.of 2018 and the spring of the following year -

:52:56. > :52:58.before the UK leaves the EU - saying most Scots want to remain

:52:59. > :53:06.We can talk to two people who'll be taking part in the debate.

:53:07. > :53:12.In Edinburgh, the Conservative member of the Scottish Parliament.

:53:13. > :53:14.Miles Briggs, whose party doesn't want a referendum.

:53:15. > :53:20.Steve Dewar, who believes Scotland should be independent,

:53:21. > :53:24.that's what he voted for in 2014 and is pleased that the country

:53:25. > :53:28.may again have a chance to vote on the issue.

:53:29. > :53:35.And Judy LocHart who doesn't think a second vote is justified. They're in

:53:36. > :53:39.Glasgow. Jeremy, good morning to you -- Joan. If Theresa May doesn't give

:53:40. > :53:45.per mirbs in the time scale that you want it, how could you force this

:53:46. > :53:48.vote? Well, basically, what we are saying is that sovereignty lies with

:53:49. > :53:52.the Scottish people, that's been widely recognised in the past and we

:53:53. > :53:57.will have, we already have an endorsement in our manifesto of the

:53:58. > :54:01.SNP manifesto said we would hold that referendum if we were dragged

:54:02. > :54:05.out of the EU against our will. So the Scottish Parliament will now

:54:06. > :54:09.vote for the section 30 and then the ball is in the court of the UK

:54:10. > :54:12.Government to show that it respects Scotland as an equal partner in the

:54:13. > :54:16.Union, respects our manifesto and respects the views of the Scottish

:54:17. > :54:20.Parliament. If it doesn't, would you have an informal referendum anyway,

:54:21. > :54:23.what's known as an advisory referendum? Well, the First Minister

:54:24. > :54:27.hasn't said that, no. What do you think? Well, I think the ball is in

:54:28. > :54:33.the court of the UK Government. I mean Theresa May came to... Would

:54:34. > :54:36.you like... Would you like an advisory referendum? Theresa May

:54:37. > :54:40.said she would respect the views of Scotland. We would have a UK-wide

:54:41. > :54:44.approach to Brexit. That clearly has not happened and the views of the

:54:45. > :54:48.62% of Scots who voted to remain have been ignored by the UK

:54:49. > :54:51.Government. The UK Government haven't even told the Scottish

:54:52. > :54:56.Government when they're triggering Article 50. They told the BBC first.

:54:57. > :54:59.OK. Myles Briggs as a Conservative MSP, what is the sort of time scale

:55:00. > :55:03.when a referendum could be held in Scotland? Good morning, Victoria.

:55:04. > :55:06.There is a lot of anger actually in Scotland today that we're going

:55:07. > :55:10.through this all over again. I'm asking you about the time scale,

:55:11. > :55:14.when a referendum could be held? What we've said and what the Prime

:55:15. > :55:17.Minister has been clear on, now is not the time. So that's why I'm

:55:18. > :55:21.asking about the time scale? Indeed. We're going through what is one of

:55:22. > :55:25.the most difficult times in our country's future. Around exiting the

:55:26. > :55:28.EU. We need all politicians to be focussed on working on that and

:55:29. > :55:33.getting the best possible deal for Scotland. And after that, after the

:55:34. > :55:38.Brexit deal, what sort of time scale? To answer your question

:55:39. > :55:42.specifically. Please. The First Minister said that the people in

:55:43. > :55:45.Scotland when they want a referendum, she would listen to

:55:46. > :55:51.that. Now, poll after poll in Scotland shows no one wants another

:55:52. > :55:54.referendum. We're seeing 60% of people saying they don't want to

:55:55. > :55:58.return to the politics of grievance and division as we saw two years

:55:59. > :56:04.ago. You would like another referendum vote, Steve. Yes. But

:56:05. > :56:08.according to Conservatives and others actually, there is just not a

:56:09. > :56:15.majority of people who want a second referendum? I mean, they are going

:56:16. > :56:19.to find a fundamental change leaving the EU which is something I voted

:56:20. > :56:23.against and most people I know voted against and it is something that we

:56:24. > :56:26.don't really want to take part in. If the UK is going to go ahead with

:56:27. > :56:30.that, it seems the only way not to be part of that process is to be an

:56:31. > :56:33.independent country. So for me there has to be another vote. The SNP told

:56:34. > :56:38.me there would be another vote and that's one of the reasons I voted

:56:39. > :56:41.for them last year. Judy, you really don't want a second independence

:56:42. > :56:47.referendum. What should happen now then? I think nothing should happen.

:56:48. > :56:51.The people of Scotland voted decisively to remain as part of the

:56:52. > :56:55.United Kingdom. The UK voted to leave the EU so that's what should

:56:56. > :57:00.happen. We were told it was a once in a generation vote on independence

:57:01. > :57:04.and the people who wanted to remain won the vote so democracy should be

:57:05. > :57:07.respected. Nobody apart from the SNP is calling for a second referendum.

:57:08. > :57:11.It was in their manifesto. They were, you know, their majority

:57:12. > :57:16.partner in the Scottish Government... They don't have a

:57:17. > :57:20.majority. A majority partner so that says it all. In their manifesto it

:57:21. > :57:23.said if there was to be a material change in the circumstances of the

:57:24. > :57:28.UK then they would call for a second vote and Brexit is a material

:57:29. > :57:31.change, is it not? Well, I disagree what about all the millions of

:57:32. > :57:35.people who voted for Brexit, but not only that, the SNP can say what they

:57:36. > :57:37.want in their manifesto, and the majority of Scotland didn't vote for

:57:38. > :57:42.that. Thank you very much.

:57:43. > :57:59.The vote, the debate over the next couple of days. Thank you very much.

:58:00. > :58:07.We will hear how Premier League clubs are setting up their own pupil

:58:08. > :58:10.referral units and we will bring you access to Everton's own school.

:58:11. > :58:33.That's tomorrow. Bye-bye.

:58:34. > :58:45.The alternative spirit of 6 Music comes to Glasgow