24/03/2017

:00:08. > :00:10.Hello, it's Friday, it's 9am, I'm Joanna Gosling -

:00:11. > :00:14.More details emerge of the man who carried out

:00:15. > :00:20.Khalid Masood was born Adrian Russell Ajao

:00:21. > :00:30.We'll ask how the 52-year-old was converted to radical Islam.

:00:31. > :00:33.In the past hour, police say they've made two further significant arrests

:00:34. > :00:35.overnight and are trawling through massive amounts

:00:36. > :00:43.We've had contact with about 3500 witnesses, including 1000 people

:00:44. > :00:45.from Westminster Bridge, and about 2500 who were within

:00:46. > :00:54.An American tourist posts a picture of murdered police

:00:55. > :00:56.officer Keith Palmer, taken less than an hour before

:00:57. > :00:58.he died, as police name the 75-year-old man who died

:00:59. > :01:05.from his injuries last night as Leslie Rhodes from South London.

:01:06. > :01:09.I'm Ben Brown life at Westminster, where all the roads now have

:01:10. > :01:13.reopened for the first time since the attack. I will have the latest

:01:14. > :01:14.on the fast-moving police investigation into what happened

:01:15. > :01:27.here. Hello, welcome to the programme,

:01:28. > :01:30.we're live until 11am this morning. We'll have the very latest

:01:31. > :01:33.on the aftermath of Wednesday's terror attacks throughout

:01:34. > :01:34.the programme this morning. One person who rushed to the aid

:01:35. > :01:37.of victims on Westminster Bridge We'll also hear from

:01:38. > :01:41.senior faith leaders. Plus people caught up in the terror

:01:42. > :01:43.attacks in Nice, Paris, Berlin and Brussels tell us how

:01:44. > :01:47.they coped afterwards. Do get in touch on all the stories

:01:48. > :01:50.we're talking about this morning - If you text, you will be charged

:01:51. > :02:00.at the standard network rate. First let's get the latest

:02:01. > :02:12.from my colleague Ben Brown, who's In the last hour, police

:02:13. > :02:17.investigating the attack here at Westminster have revealed that they

:02:18. > :02:21.have made two further significant arrests overnight, so nine people

:02:22. > :02:25.are now in custody altogether, one woman has been released, we hear, on

:02:26. > :02:31.bail. A fourth victim, meanwhile, who died last night has been named

:02:32. > :02:36.by the police as 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes, he was from Streatham in

:02:37. > :02:40.south London. Scotland Yard's Acting Deputy Commissioner Mark Rowley said

:02:41. > :02:45.the attacker, Khalid Masood, had been born Adrian Russell Ajao. With

:02:46. > :02:49.the latest, here is Jane Francis Kelly.

:02:50. > :02:55.This photo is thought to have been taken of PC Keith Palmer just 45

:02:56. > :02:58.minutes before he died. The American tourist scene with him was at

:02:59. > :03:01.Westminster prior to the attack and asked if she could pose with the

:03:02. > :03:08.opposite. Other victims of the attack were Aysha Frade, a mother of

:03:09. > :03:12.two. Also an American tourist, Kurt Cochran. Police have also confirmed

:03:13. > :03:16.another man has died. Sadly last night another man died in

:03:17. > :03:20.hospital as a result of the injury sustained during the attack. Whilst

:03:21. > :03:25.we await formal identification, we believe that he is Leslie Rhodes,

:03:26. > :03:31.aged 75, from Streatham in south London. My thoughts are with his

:03:32. > :03:36.family at this time. Furthermore, two people remain in hospital in

:03:37. > :03:38.what is described as critical condition, and one person is

:03:39. > :03:43.considered to have life-threatening injuries.

:03:44. > :03:47.The man responsible for the deaths was 52-year-old Khalid Masood, his

:03:48. > :03:51.birth name Adrian Russell Ajao. He was born in Kent and most recently

:03:52. > :03:55.lived in the West Midlands. He had a range of previous convictions

:03:56. > :04:00.including GBH, possessing of offensive weapons, and public order

:04:01. > :04:04.offences. His last conviction was in 2003 for possession of a knife. He

:04:05. > :04:09.was also known under a number of aliases and was known to the

:04:10. > :04:12.security services. Police said overnight there were two significant

:04:13. > :04:17.arrests in the West Midlands and Northwest, nine people are in

:04:18. > :04:20.custody, one woman has been released on bail. They appealed for

:04:21. > :04:24.information. Anyone who knew Khalid Masood well, anyone who understands

:04:25. > :04:27.who his associates were, anyone who can provide information about the

:04:28. > :04:33.places he has recently visited. There might well be people out there

:04:34. > :04:36.who did have concerns about Masood but weren't sure all didn't feel

:04:37. > :04:41.comfortable for whatever reason in passing that information to us. I

:04:42. > :04:44.now urge anyone with such information to callers. The attack

:04:45. > :04:52.has reverberated across the world, but it was an attack at the heart of

:04:53. > :04:57.British democracy. Shots show the Prime Minister being led away to

:04:58. > :05:01.safety by her security team, the scene of uncertainty. It was still

:05:02. > :05:04.unclear what had gone on outside the gates of Westminster. Last night the

:05:05. > :05:08.police, politicians and faith leaders joined thousands of people

:05:09. > :05:09.in Trafalgar Square, with the message that terrorism and fear will

:05:10. > :05:18.not prevail. We have had more details, as you

:05:19. > :05:22.were hearing, about the police investigation, including news that

:05:23. > :05:23.they have made two more significant arrests as they told us this

:05:24. > :05:24.morning. Let's get the latest

:05:25. > :05:26.from the Metropolitan Police Headquarters at Scotland Yard

:05:27. > :05:39.with our correspondent Yes, we had that update just under

:05:40. > :05:43.an hour ago from Acting Deputy Commissioner Mark Rowley. He came

:05:44. > :05:48.out and spoke just behind me here, and initially paid tribute to those

:05:49. > :05:52.who died. He named 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes from south London, and

:05:53. > :05:57.he gave us an update also on those in hospital, as we said two people

:05:58. > :06:00.critical, one person still have life-threatening injuries. He also

:06:01. > :06:05.mentioned another two police officers who had been taken to

:06:06. > :06:12.hospital, they remain in hospital with significant injuries. He said

:06:13. > :06:19.in total 50 people required hospital attention. Then he went on to focus

:06:20. > :06:24.on the attacker, Khalid Masood. His birth name, Adrian Russell Ajao.

:06:25. > :06:28.What he said is that the investigation will focus on how and

:06:29. > :06:32.when he came to be radicalised. The words that he used, he wanted

:06:33. > :06:38.information, they are trying to piece together this picture on his

:06:39. > :06:42.motivation, his preparation, and also his associates. So he called

:06:43. > :06:48.for anyone with any information, anyone who knew him at all, to come

:06:49. > :06:52.forward and speak to police. He also mentioned the two arrests, his words

:06:53. > :06:58.were there were two significant arrests overnight, there had

:06:59. > :07:03.previously been eight, one woman has been released on bail. He also spoke

:07:04. > :07:08.about the number of people who have already come forward, more than 3000

:07:09. > :07:12.people have already come forward with witness details. He didn't go

:07:13. > :07:16.into detail as to what they have come forward with, but he said it

:07:17. > :07:20.was a significant amount of people who have come forward. He also

:07:21. > :07:24.talked about security at Parliament, he said that would be reviewed,

:07:25. > :07:28.although he made the point that Parliament is a tourist attraction,

:07:29. > :07:33.it is open to visitors, but in light of what happened they would have to

:07:34. > :07:38.review security there. But he very much said that London is open for

:07:39. > :07:41.business, and he made the point that armed officers were patrolling

:07:42. > :07:44.London at double strength at this point.

:07:45. > :07:48.Alexandra thank you very much indeed.

:07:49. > :07:52.Armed police have raided several properties in Birmingham in

:07:53. > :07:58.connection to the attack here at Westminster. Let's cross to our

:07:59. > :07:59.correspondent Kathryn Stanczyszyn, who is in Birmingham for us this

:08:00. > :08:06.morning. We know that Birmingham is a centre

:08:07. > :08:09.of police interest in this case, partly because the assailant hired

:08:10. > :08:17.the beer call that he used in the attack there in Birmingham.

:08:18. > :08:21.Yes, that is correct, and those two significant arrests that police have

:08:22. > :08:25.updated in the last hour, one of those was made overnight here in the

:08:26. > :08:28.West Midlands as well, one in the north-west, and seven of the arrests

:08:29. > :08:33.yesterday were made here in the West Midlands as well. As you say, we

:08:34. > :08:38.know that the car used on the Westminster Bridge attack was

:08:39. > :08:43.actually hired from a rental centre around five minutes from where I am

:08:44. > :08:47.now on Hagley Road. This is where the activity was focused first here

:08:48. > :08:53.in Birmingham on Wednesday night, a flat behind me was raided by armed

:08:54. > :09:00.officers. The activity then moved to a flat about five minutes away where

:09:01. > :09:04.it is believed the attacker actually lived for some time, neighbours

:09:05. > :09:07.shocked to recognise Khalid Masood in photographs, saying that they

:09:08. > :09:11.believed he had been living in a house there up until around two

:09:12. > :09:17.months ago. The car rental centre is just a short walk from there and BBC

:09:18. > :09:25.sources have told us they believe he actually hired that car directly

:09:26. > :09:28.himself. This has been a huge police operation, searches have spanned a

:09:29. > :09:32.big geographical area, Sussex, London, here in the West Midlands

:09:33. > :09:35.and in Wales as well, but of course the prevalence of the arrests made

:09:36. > :09:40.here in Birmingham have led people to talk about whether the city has a

:09:41. > :09:44.problem with radicalisation, some of the press describing Birmingham as a

:09:45. > :09:50.terror hotspot this morning. Of course, the vast majority of Muslims

:09:51. > :09:54.say this is not even in the same universe as their fate, and of

:09:55. > :09:57.course the Birmingham Faith leaders network has put out a statement

:09:58. > :10:05.saying, we completely reject any opportunity to blame any faith in

:10:06. > :10:09.the city for the perverted actions of one individual, and indeed a

:10:10. > :10:15.special unity Pigem is going to be held in Birmingham on the high

:10:16. > :10:19.street at 5pm today, that has been organised by the Muslim engagement

:10:20. > :10:24.network and Stand Up To Racism jointly, they say they want to pay

:10:25. > :10:28.tribute to the victims of the attack but also show all communities in

:10:29. > :10:30.Birmingham are standing together. Thank you very much indeed.

:10:31. > :10:32.Last night, police said a 75-year-old man had died

:10:33. > :10:41.It takes the number of victims to four.

:10:42. > :10:47.In terms of casualties, police said 50 people were injured in all and

:10:48. > :10:49.two are still in a critical condition. Let's get the latest on

:10:50. > :10:51.those casualties. My colleague Fiona Lamdin

:10:52. > :11:04.is at Kings College Hospital Yes, I am about three miles from

:11:05. > :11:09.where the attack took place, you can see the police still here regarding

:11:10. > :11:13.the hospital, very sad news came in last night that 75-year-old Leslie

:11:14. > :11:17.Rhodes from Streatham, not far from here, died here at the hospital last

:11:18. > :11:22.night, which takes the number of victims to ball who died following

:11:23. > :11:26.the attacks, so we now know Leslie Rhodes, PC Keith Palmer, the police

:11:27. > :11:30.officer who was protecting Parliament who was stabbed, Aysha

:11:31. > :11:35.Frade, who was on her way to pick up a two children from school, and Kurt

:11:36. > :11:40.Cochran, the US tourist who was here celebrating his 25th wedding

:11:41. > :11:43.anniversary. The hospital told us on Wednesday afternoon, they brought

:11:44. > :11:48.eight victims here to Kings College Hospital, we know that one is still

:11:49. > :11:51.in a critical condition, two people were allowed home yesterday which

:11:52. > :11:58.must have been a huge relief to their family, so this morning we

:11:59. > :11:58.know there are five victims being treated here behind me.

:11:59. > :12:04.The owner, thank you very much. Here at Westminster, life is

:12:05. > :12:08.returning to normal, the roads have reopened, traffic is moving as

:12:09. > :12:12.normal for the first time since the attack, in keeping really with the

:12:13. > :12:16.Prime Minister's message that life here in London and in the country

:12:17. > :12:19.has to continue as normal and that terrorism cannot be seen to win.

:12:20. > :12:21.That is the very latest from Westminster. You are watching BBC

:12:22. > :12:25.News. A summary now of the day's of the

:12:26. > :12:32.news at the BBC newsroom. Bad behaviour in English schools

:12:33. > :12:36.is not being dealt with properly and pupils' performance

:12:37. > :12:37.is being negatively effected. That's the view of the

:12:38. > :12:39.the Government's school In a review published today, he says

:12:40. > :12:45.more funding and better training The report also recommends that

:12:46. > :12:49.school inspectors pay more attention to behaviour issues, and warns

:12:50. > :12:52.they are often glossed over The President of the European

:12:53. > :12:58.Commission has told the BBC that the EU will not seek to punish

:12:59. > :13:01.Britain during Brexit negotiations. Speaking on the eve of the EU's 60th

:13:02. > :13:07.anniversary celebrations, Jean-Claude Juncker said the exit

:13:08. > :13:09.talks will be approached fairly but warned that Britain will be held

:13:10. > :13:12.to financial commitments made Customers should be paid automatic

:13:13. > :13:21.compensation by their phone companies for problems

:13:22. > :13:25.with landlines and broadband. The telecoms regulator Ofcom says

:13:26. > :13:27.providers should pay customers for slow repairs,

:13:28. > :13:28.delayed connections The plans could affect more

:13:29. > :13:31.than 2.5 million customers who would receive up to ?185 million

:13:32. > :13:35.in new compensation At the moment, compensation is only

:13:36. > :13:47.paid to a small number of customers. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:13:48. > :13:56.News - more at 9.30am. We will shortly talk to one of the

:13:57. > :13:59.people who was first at the scene after the Westminster attack, did

:14:00. > :14:03.not realise it was a terror attack at that stage but stepped in to help

:14:04. > :14:07.one victim in particular who had been injured. We will also be

:14:08. > :14:11.talking about security at Westminster, which is being looked

:14:12. > :14:15.at in the aftermath of the attack, and we will be asking, should police

:14:16. > :14:21.officers in the UK now be routinely armed? Get in touch with your

:14:22. > :14:23.thoughts. An e-mail from Michael saying, I'm a retired London taxi

:14:24. > :14:27.driver who'd used to drive in with MPs all the time through that gate.

:14:28. > :14:31.The policemen just glanced into the back of the cap to recognise the MP

:14:32. > :14:36.and then nodded to me to go ahead. That is not good enough, what is

:14:37. > :14:41.needed is similar to the gates to Downing Street. How they all knew

:14:42. > :14:44.more than 100 MPs with just a glance beats me.

:14:45. > :14:50.And a text to say the last photo of the police officer killed is the

:14:51. > :14:54.most the coverage of the attack, reducing me to tears, thank you to

:14:55. > :14:56.the lady for releasing it for the family, it brings home the human

:14:57. > :14:58.tragedy of the attack. We will have more in a few moments,

:14:59. > :15:05.but let's catch up with the sport. The new Formula 1 season is

:15:06. > :15:10.underway, how has Lewis Hamilton been getting on?

:15:11. > :15:15.Is very, very impressive start the Lewis Hamilton in Australia

:15:16. > :15:18.overnight, fastest in both sessions ahead of the Australian Grand Prix

:15:19. > :15:22.and in second practice, these are the pictures from a lap which was a

:15:23. > :15:29.scorcher, more than half a second faster than anyone else, potentially

:15:30. > :15:34.knocking up to five seconds off lap times. The second quickest to

:15:35. > :15:39.Hamilton was Sebastian Vettel in his Ferrari, who claimed would be

:15:40. > :15:43.Mercedes' biggest rival for a fourth straight title. He said they would

:15:44. > :15:47.be the ones to beat, which, after what happened today, seems no more

:15:48. > :15:52.than mind games. To tell you about the other changes to the cars, they

:15:53. > :15:56.are wider, wider back wheels as well, up to 80 centimetres wider,

:15:57. > :16:00.which as you saw on the pictures is quite a lot in Formula 1 terms but

:16:01. > :16:04.makes them harder to drive and certainly harder to overtake, so

:16:05. > :16:09.while there is excitement about the speed, we hope that is matched by

:16:10. > :16:12.the track -- on the track with all that overtaking.

:16:13. > :16:14.What about the latest on Rory McIlroy?

:16:15. > :16:18.Is not such a good day for him, he is out of the match play in Texas,

:16:19. > :16:24.he only played one round this week, the second of his three opponents,

:16:25. > :16:28.Gary Woodland, actually pulled out last night, which left Soren

:16:29. > :16:34.Kjeldsen, who beat McIlroy on Wednesday, needing only half a point

:16:35. > :16:39.in his match. He got a full point against Emiliano Grillo, Kjeldsen

:16:40. > :16:43.was due to play his final group match against Gary Woodland, said

:16:44. > :16:50.because he is guaranteed a win McIlroy cannot qualify. Tyrrell

:16:51. > :16:55.Hatton here holing Dani from distance. Danny Willett is also out.

:16:56. > :16:58.Just so you know, there are three games in the group stages and the

:16:59. > :17:06.top 16 go through to the knockout rounds on Saturday and Sunday.

:17:07. > :17:10.On Wednesday afternoon tiny singer was on a bus heading towards

:17:11. > :17:11.Westminster Bridge just moments before the attack that brought chaos

:17:12. > :17:31.and terror to the heart of London. The person she helped was

:17:32. > :17:33.unconscious with serious head injuries and after ambulances

:17:34. > :17:38.arrived she left the scene only later to discover the truth about

:17:39. > :17:42.what had happened. Dani joins us now in the studio. Thank you for coming

:17:43. > :17:47.in. Those are the pictures of you on the day, tell us what the first you

:17:48. > :17:51.knew, what was the first you knew of what was happening?

:17:52. > :17:57.We saw the car careering off the pavement. People saw the car

:17:58. > :18:01.knocking several people over. Somebody on the bus sheltered, if

:18:02. > :18:05.anyone had first aid training they should get off the bus and go and

:18:06. > :18:09.help. I got off straightaway and went to the first person I saw who

:18:10. > :18:14.looked like they won't being attended to. It was a man with quite

:18:15. > :18:19.significant head injury and potentially other injuries we

:18:20. > :18:26.couldn't see. At that point we didn't know that anything was going

:18:27. > :18:30.to happen. What help did you give? The other chap who was with me

:18:31. > :18:35.helping the don't and we were with was a medic. There wasn't a lot we

:18:36. > :18:39.could practically do, it was just monitoring polls and breathing and

:18:40. > :18:44.checking his airways were clear. I was just talking to him, really.

:18:45. > :18:48.You're never aware of what people are aware of themselves. I was

:18:49. > :18:52.telling him what was going on, describing when the ambulance were

:18:53. > :18:57.coming, hoping some parts of him was registering our presence and that we

:18:58. > :19:03.were there to help him. Do you know how he is? I've got no idea. As you

:19:04. > :19:07.said, you didn't know it was a terror attack. You went off when the

:19:08. > :19:14.ambulance arrived, when did you discover what had actually happened?

:19:15. > :19:18.I went to wash my hands basically. I came back to the people I was with

:19:19. > :19:21.on the bus. We had to be diverted all the way round. It was ten

:19:22. > :19:26.minutes later when I realised from what they had said that there had

:19:27. > :19:30.been gunshots fired, a police officer had been stabbed, then we

:19:31. > :19:33.realised it was probably part of the same incident and it probably was a

:19:34. > :19:39.terrorist attack of some sort. How did you feel at that point? I wanted

:19:40. > :19:45.to get away as quickly as possible. The area was so hectic with armed

:19:46. > :19:51.police and paramedics and sirens. I just wanted to get home as soon as

:19:52. > :19:55.possible really. Your image was one of the images used many times on the

:19:56. > :19:59.day. It must have been quite strange to you afterwards to realise what

:20:00. > :20:04.you had been caught up in. It was. As soon as I got home I had people

:20:05. > :20:07.contacting me. A friend in Hungary said his sister in Israel had seen

:20:08. > :20:12.the picture of me and wanted to check I was OK. I had a few people

:20:13. > :20:16.getting in touch saying they had seen that and then people phoning

:20:17. > :20:20.saying they had seen me on the news. That was really strange, to be

:20:21. > :20:26.someone's reference point or something. Something so big and of

:20:27. > :20:28.this level of magnitude. There were lots of people injured, you

:20:29. > :20:33.obviously went straight to one person and focused on helping them.

:20:34. > :20:36.Were you able to take in much of what was going on around you and how

:20:37. > :20:41.other people were reacting? Not really. We were aware of the people

:20:42. > :20:44.and the longer we stayed there the more it became apparent that further

:20:45. > :20:51.up the bridge more people have been injured. At one point I wasn't even

:20:52. > :20:57.aware of the photographs being taken, I was just looking to

:20:58. > :21:04.ambulances and any progress, really. How would you, could you describe

:21:05. > :21:12.the way people work, was it people reacting calmly in dealing with the

:21:13. > :21:16.situation? Was there chaos? I didn't feel it was chaotic. Everyone dealt

:21:17. > :21:23.with it amazingly, especially the NHS staff at St Thomas' They came

:21:24. > :21:31.running out. They are obviously very close, just on the other side of the

:21:32. > :21:35.bridge. Maybe within one or two minutes, a chap came up to me and

:21:36. > :21:39.said I'm on holiday but I'm still a doctor, what can I do? All the

:21:40. > :21:42.civilians who helped who maybe didn't have that training, they were

:21:43. > :21:49.just there to be doing whatever needed to be done. The police

:21:50. > :21:52.response was incredibly quick, also. I suppose everything went smoothly

:21:53. > :22:00.as far as the response was concerned. As a Londoner, how do you

:22:01. > :22:04.feel? I feel affected by having been there but I don't feel affected as a

:22:05. > :22:10.Londoner. You don't feel more vulnerable? No, this is the sort of

:22:11. > :22:15.thing that is in the back of our minds could happen at any time. As

:22:16. > :22:19.people are saying, London is open and we stand united. I'm certainly

:22:20. > :22:24.not going to use this as an excuse to be more afraid of the different

:22:25. > :22:28.communities who make up London. In fact, it solidified in me the fact

:22:29. > :22:31.London is a diverse multicultural city and we can celebrate that

:22:32. > :22:40.through our unity together. I'm too, Dani. Following yesterday's vigil in

:22:41. > :22:44.Trafalgar Square we will be talking a bit later about the impact on

:22:45. > :22:51.communities and different faiths coming together. Let's focus on

:22:52. > :22:55.questions being raised once again about the effectiveness of security

:22:56. > :22:58.around the Houses of Parliament. The attacker Khalid Masood was able to

:22:59. > :23:02.get past the carriage Gates at Westminster before he was shot by

:23:03. > :23:04.police. This is what Scotland Yard's Mark Rowley had to say about

:23:05. > :23:12.reviewing security. I understand why tragic events such

:23:13. > :23:16.as this generates questions about the security of Parliament. Our

:23:17. > :23:20.current arrangements have been developed with Parliament over many

:23:21. > :23:24.years, and are designed to provide access to the seat of our

:23:25. > :23:28.government, balanced carefully with security that is proportionate but

:23:29. > :23:32.not overly intrusive. Of course after an incident like this, as

:23:33. > :23:35.would be expected, my team will work with Parliamentary authorities to

:23:36. > :23:41.assess whether a different tone or a different balance is necessary. More

:23:42. > :23:45.widely across the country, the police service will sustain an

:23:46. > :23:50.enhanced armed and unarmed presence over the next few days. London and

:23:51. > :23:54.the UK are open for business, and we're out there in greater numbers

:23:55. > :24:01.to make sure the public see a high presence, to help reassure them as

:24:02. > :24:04.they go about their daily lives. In London, the number of armed officers

:24:05. > :24:07.remains at nearly double strength, whilst other parts of the UK are up

:24:08. > :24:11.to one third more officers on duty. We can now speak to Sidney Mackay,

:24:12. > :24:14.a former Chief Superintendent His daughter, also a Met Officer,

:24:15. > :24:17.was killed while on duty. His son is currently

:24:18. > :24:19.serving Met officer. Tony Long, a former

:24:20. > :24:23.police firearms officer. Anthony Glees who directs

:24:24. > :24:25.the Centre for Security and Intelligence Studies

:24:26. > :24:28.at the University of Buckingham. And Philip Ingram, a former

:24:29. > :24:30.British Army Intelligence officer who has been

:24:31. > :24:43.following the intelligence Thank you for joining us. We were

:24:44. > :24:50.hearing that armed officers patrolling London are at double

:24:51. > :24:54.strength. Tony, do you think police should be routinely armed? My

:24:55. > :24:58.personal opinion is yes. I know I'm out of sync with a lot of my former

:24:59. > :25:02.colleagues that are still serving but I think over the years, an

:25:03. > :25:06.increasing percentage are coming towards that viewpoint. I think if

:25:07. > :25:10.you have a limited resource, the chances are it's not going to be in

:25:11. > :25:15.the right place at the right time. What is your view on arming police

:25:16. > :25:26.officers? Privately I think it's inevitable that every officer will

:25:27. > :25:30.become armed. The growing incidence of incidents such as two days ago

:25:31. > :25:36.will require it. In this situation it was actually a protection officer

:25:37. > :25:42.working for the Defence Secretary who fired the bullet that stopped

:25:43. > :25:45.the attacker. What is your view, Tony, of the level of armed police

:25:46. > :25:50.that are around Westminster in particular? We don't know why it was

:25:51. > :25:54.a closed protection officer, perhaps he just happened to be the person at

:25:55. > :25:59.that moment in time that found himself closest. In my experience,

:26:00. > :26:02.normally, there are at least two uniformed armed officers in the

:26:03. > :26:07.vicinity of that gate or certainly in the vicinity of that yard. They

:26:08. > :26:10.may well have been there but this particular officer happen to be

:26:11. > :26:16.nearest. The point I would make is that this assailant, terrorist, call

:26:17. > :26:20.him what you will, made life relatively easy for the police in

:26:21. > :26:24.this incident. Having run over his victims on Westminster Bridge, he

:26:25. > :26:29.made his way to probably the most heavily armed building in London. If

:26:30. > :26:32.he had done the same at the other end of Whitehall, and driven around

:26:33. > :26:37.Trafalgar Square running people over or god forbid up into the West End,

:26:38. > :26:41.we wouldn't have had static police officers waiting for him. We would

:26:42. > :26:47.have had armed response vehicles, trying to make sense of gobbled

:26:48. > :26:49.radio messages, trying to get through gridlocked streets. They

:26:50. > :26:55.would have had to find him before they could have put his attack to a

:26:56. > :27:02.finish. That's the point I'm making, if you have a limited resource and

:27:03. > :27:07.you major firearms officers to specialist, Mr Rowley has just said

:27:08. > :27:11.that there are double the amount of armed officers on the streets,

:27:12. > :27:14.that's fine, but it's not sustainable. Those officers will be

:27:15. > :27:21.an overtime because there aren't enough of them to maintain that.

:27:22. > :27:24.With that scenario that Tony Long is outlining, a complete nightmare

:27:25. > :27:30.scenario, something that would be much harder to handle, what are your

:27:31. > :27:36.thoughts on the best way to protect people on the streets? The best way

:27:37. > :27:40.to protect people and the best way to protect Parliament is actually to

:27:41. > :27:46.protect it. What we saw two days ago was a lack of protection. I'm very

:27:47. > :27:52.disturbed by the kind of complacent attitude, I'm afraid. I know, it's

:27:53. > :27:57.been a terrible tragedy and people are traumatised by it,

:27:58. > :28:03.understandably. But the fact is, both in immediate terms and in wider

:28:04. > :28:06.terms, this was a failure of security policy. People may have

:28:07. > :28:15.seen the pictures I've just seen on Twitter a few moments ago of Mrs May

:28:16. > :28:19.being taken at great speed, in an extreme condition of chaos, Act of

:28:20. > :28:23.Parliament. This was somebody who got within 100 metres of whether

:28:24. > :28:27.Prime Minister was. If it had an explosive vest, you and I would be

:28:28. > :28:32.having a very different conversation. When Mr Rowley says,

:28:33. > :28:37.we've been planning this for a long time, it was proportionate, etc. It

:28:38. > :28:45.wasn't proportionate at all. A very brave police officer confronted a

:28:46. > :28:50.crazed Islamist attacker, without a weapon. This is lack of planning. I

:28:51. > :28:56.think we become complacent in this country. Nobody wants to see armed

:28:57. > :29:02.police, but that is the only response, particularly in

:29:03. > :29:06.Westminster. The more we know about the perpetrator, the terrorist, the

:29:07. > :29:11.more questions will be asked why this man slipped off the radar of

:29:12. > :29:15.MI5. We've got a security service, we know there are 3000 people in

:29:16. > :29:20.this country that want to do us harm, they should jolly well have

:29:21. > :29:25.their collars felt. You are shaking your head at what was being said

:29:26. > :29:28.there. I think it's been grossly unfair in misrepresenting what was

:29:29. > :29:32.going on. I was in Westminster not long after the incident happened.

:29:33. > :29:39.The police and emergency service response was phenomenally quick.

:29:40. > :29:43.There's a balance between having complete security. If you do that,

:29:44. > :29:46.everywhere is on all time, every member of the police is armed,

:29:47. > :29:51.you've got soldiers on the street and that's a totalitarian state. We

:29:52. > :29:54.are not, we are a free liberal democracy and we have to let people

:29:55. > :29:57.go about their normal lives without oppressive security oppressive

:29:58. > :30:02.security. Security starts with an outer ring of intelligence. It's

:30:03. > :30:06.very difficult when you're looking at lone wolf attacks, which this

:30:07. > :30:10.seems to have been, to pick up the intelligence that would indicate it.

:30:11. > :30:16.Especially when some of the attackers that carry out these sort

:30:17. > :30:22.of events go from zero to being crude boot recruited to jihad within

:30:23. > :30:25.48 hours. Australian police last year stopped 216-year-olds from

:30:26. > :30:29.carrying out attacks, they made an assessment that they had been

:30:30. > :30:34.recruited to jihad within 48 hours. That's virtually impossible for any

:30:35. > :30:37.security organisation to be able to keep on top. I agree with the

:30:38. > :30:43.speakers in saying that I think now is time when our police forces,

:30:44. > :30:48.certainly in our major cities and areas where there's concentrations

:30:49. > :30:53.of people, should be routinely armed.

:30:54. > :30:59.You are all of the consensus that it is time to routinely armed police...

:31:00. > :31:06.There will be an awful lot of criticism and already has been in

:31:07. > :31:13.terms of how he got as far as he did. It is worth bearing in mind

:31:14. > :31:18.that in 1979, in the middle of a concerted Irish terrorism campaign,

:31:19. > :31:25.a car bomb was detonated under a vehicle by the IRA within yards of

:31:26. > :31:32.where the officer was killed the other day going into the underground

:31:33. > :31:38.car park. But despite that between 1979 and the Twin towers going down

:31:39. > :31:43.in 2001 Parliament consistently refused to have any armed police

:31:44. > :31:47.officers within the Palace of Westminster. There is a tradition,

:31:48. > :31:56.and quite understandably so around that building, the Sergeant at Arms

:31:57. > :32:00.basically has to say yes or no to all of the security there and I

:32:01. > :32:03.guarantee if the gates were shut the first person to complain about it,

:32:04. > :32:07.probably because they would could not ride their bicycles through it,

:32:08. > :32:10.would be a member of Parliament or cabinet member, so the unarmed

:32:11. > :32:16.uniformed officers that are effectively meters and greeters and

:32:17. > :32:20.pass checkers know that community well and they are on first name

:32:21. > :32:28.terms with the MPs and everything else, and I think that that inspires

:32:29. > :32:33.a lack of security in many ways, but most people seem to be in agreement,

:32:34. > :32:37.if you are going to have officers there, this perception that because

:32:38. > :32:43.they are carrying a gun changes the way they do policing, is, I'm

:32:44. > :32:46.afraid, delusional. I carry guns over tea and covertly, I have been

:32:47. > :32:49.there and communicated with the public, given them directions and

:32:50. > :32:54.acted like an ordinary police officer as I was for the whole of my

:32:55. > :32:58.service. Having a gun on your hip does not stop... Elsewhere in the

:32:59. > :33:02.world it is almost insulting to suggest that the Dutch police or

:33:03. > :33:05.French police or Swiss police don't have community policing, that their

:33:06. > :33:09.officers are not approachable simply because they have a gun. It is a

:33:10. > :33:13.fallacy that has been allowed to perpetuate to such an extent that

:33:14. > :33:19.serving officers think that is what would happen if they had to carry a

:33:20. > :33:23.gun, and it is simply not true. Olivier having on to say, should all

:33:24. > :33:27.officers be armed, no, but more should. I'm a police officer,

:33:28. > :33:31.British police haven't recruited officers with firearms in mind, then

:33:32. > :33:34.he would not want to carry all not have the skills or aptitude, but all

:33:35. > :33:38.officers should be offered the chance to carry a weapon and if they

:33:39. > :33:42.have -- if they pass the rigorous selection and training they should

:33:43. > :33:47.carry, this occurred in the most heavily policed area in the country,

:33:48. > :33:49.if it happened in other areas it could take 45 minutes for armed

:33:50. > :33:54.police to arrive. What is your view on whether there

:33:55. > :33:58.would be an appetite for the police to be armed? I have to agree with

:33:59. > :34:04.Tony, there has been a recent poll by the Met Police Federation on

:34:05. > :34:07.firearms and Taser 's within the federation membership, and I think

:34:08. > :34:19.they were all in favour of Tasers but rejected considerably not to

:34:20. > :34:23.carry firearms. I think it is a mystique that has been built up over

:34:24. > :34:27.the years not just by police but by the public as well, the perception

:34:28. > :34:32.of the public, that we've always traditionally had a unarmed police,

:34:33. > :34:39.and this is a gold standard of some sort. I don't deny that and I

:34:40. > :34:43.recognise it, but there is a mindset for the moment not to carry firearms

:34:44. > :34:48.but I think, as I said initially, that it will be inevitable that

:34:49. > :34:53.officers will personally realise that they must go along that path.

:34:54. > :34:59.It might not be tomorrow, but I think it will be sometime in the not

:35:00. > :35:03.too distant future. It will have huge resource implications for the

:35:04. > :35:09.UK police service as a whole, both in training and getting officers to

:35:10. > :35:13.volunteer under present circumstances to carry a weapon.

:35:14. > :35:16.Thank you all very much for joining us, and if you have any more

:35:17. > :35:21.comments they are always welcome, the usual ways of getting in touch.

:35:22. > :35:29.Following yesterday's vigil in Trafalgar Square,

:35:30. > :35:33.I'll talk to religious leaders from various fates about what role

:35:34. > :35:35.religion can play in the aftermath of a terrorist attack.

:35:36. > :35:38.And we'll look at the global fight against so-called Islamic State

:35:39. > :35:42.and whether we're likely to see more terror attacks in the west.

:35:43. > :35:48.Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

:35:49. > :35:51.A fourth victim who died last night after being knocked down

:35:52. > :35:54.in the Westminster attack has been named by police as 75-year-old

:35:55. > :35:57.Leslie Rhodes from Streatham, in South London.

:35:58. > :36:02.Two people remain in hospital in a critical condition.

:36:03. > :36:04.Two police officers hurt in the attack are also in hospital

:36:05. > :36:12.In a statement this morning, police investigating the attack have

:36:13. > :36:13.revealed that they've made two further significant

:36:14. > :36:21.Nine people are now in custody, one woman has been released on bail.

:36:22. > :36:23.Police have also revealed the attacker, Khalid Masood, was born

:36:24. > :36:26.The police have appealed for information from anyone

:36:27. > :36:33.Bad behaviour in English schools is not being dealt with properly

:36:34. > :36:35.and pupils' performance is being negatively effected.

:36:36. > :36:38.That's the view of the the Government's school

:36:39. > :36:41.In a review published today, he says more funding

:36:42. > :36:43.and better training are needed to tackle the issue.

:36:44. > :36:46.The report also recommends that school inspectors pay more attention

:36:47. > :36:48.to behaviour issues, and warns they are often

:36:49. > :36:54.glossed over when schools produce good results.

:36:55. > :36:57.The President of the European Commission has told the BBC

:36:58. > :37:02.that the EU will not seek to punish Britain during Brexit negotiations.

:37:03. > :37:05.Speaking on the eve of the EU's 60th anniversary celebrations,

:37:06. > :37:07.Jean-Claude Juncker said the exit talks will be approached fairly

:37:08. > :37:10.but warned that Britain will be held to financial commitments made

:37:11. > :37:15.Customers should be paid automatic compensation by their phone

:37:16. > :37:20.companies for problems with landlines and broadband.

:37:21. > :37:22.The telecoms regulator Ofcom says providers should pay

:37:23. > :37:24.customers for slow repairs, delayed connections

:37:25. > :37:29.The plans could affect more than 2.5 million customers

:37:30. > :37:32.who would receive up to ?185 million in new compensation

:37:33. > :37:44.At the moment, compensation is only paid to a small number of customers.

:37:45. > :37:47.That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10am.

:37:48. > :37:59.Lewis Hamilton called his first day of the new Formula One season "99%

:38:00. > :38:01.perfect" after finishing fastest in both practice sessions

:38:02. > :38:10.He was more than half a second quicker than the rest

:38:11. > :38:20.in the second session and that, in Formula One,

:38:21. > :38:22.particularly with the new faster cars, is a lot.

:38:23. > :38:25.That lap allowed him to finish ahead of Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel

:38:26. > :38:27.and new Mercedes teammate Valteri Bottas in Melbourne.

:38:28. > :38:29.Soren Kjeldsen's win at the WGC Match Play golf sends

:38:30. > :38:33.And the world number two didn't even play after his opponent withdrew.

:38:34. > :38:36.As a result Kjeldsen needed just a half to prevent McIlroy

:38:37. > :38:39.British Swimming is conducting an investigation after multiple

:38:40. > :38:41.bullying claims were made by Paralympians about a coach.

:38:42. > :38:43.BBC Sport has learned the complainants include

:38:44. > :38:46.And David Haye has been called before boxing authorities

:38:47. > :38:48.to explain his comments in the build-up to his heavyweight

:38:49. > :38:52.Haye had graphically described the injuries that he hoped

:38:53. > :39:24.Last night a candlelit vigil was held in Trafalgar Square

:39:25. > :39:31.to remember those that lost their lives and that

:39:32. > :39:38.These are the words from London's mayor.

:39:39. > :39:41.London is a city with people from all sorts of backgrounds. When

:39:42. > :39:50.London faces diversity, we all pull together. We stand up for our

:39:51. > :39:54.values, and we show the world we are the greatest city in the world.

:39:55. > :39:58.Let's speak now to the Archdeacon of London, Luke Miller.

:39:59. > :40:03.The Rabbi Dr Jonathan Roman, who has edited a book called Terror,

:40:04. > :40:05.Trauma And Tragedy, on how communities should respond

:40:06. > :40:11.And Imam Yunus Dudhwala, who is the Head of Chaplaincy

:40:12. > :40:16.and Bereavement Services to Barts Health NHS Trust.

:40:17. > :40:23.Thank you all for coming in, Father Luke Millar, you were at the vigil,

:40:24. > :40:26.tell us what it was like. It was an extraordinary experience to have the

:40:27. > :40:29.privilege of looking across so many people who had come to show that

:40:30. > :40:35.London stands together, that we are unified in the face of this kind of

:40:36. > :40:40.attack and determined we will not be terrorised out of normal behaviour,

:40:41. > :40:45.that we shall carry on in all our extraordinary multifarious

:40:46. > :40:49.diversity. Imam Yunus Dudhwala, what is your view of faith leaders at a

:40:50. > :40:52.time like this? We have a very important role to play to try to

:40:53. > :40:58.bring communities together, especially in communities that are

:40:59. > :41:02.very diverse. We have mosques, churches, synagogues, temples, we

:41:03. > :41:09.have communities, we have people from different religious

:41:10. > :41:13.backgrounds, so it is a time for us to mind ourselves as leaders and

:41:14. > :41:17.lead from the front to make sure people understand our values are

:41:18. > :41:22.very similar, our backgrounds are similar in terms of humanity, and

:41:23. > :41:26.the need to respect each other and tolerance, but faith leaders have a

:41:27. > :41:32.very important role. What is the evidence you have seen about how

:41:33. > :41:36.people are responding? I live in London and looking at how people

:41:37. > :41:41.have been going about their normal business, the vigil that was held at

:41:42. > :41:45.Trafalgar Square last night, there were many other vigils in Tower

:41:46. > :41:49.Hamlets, Leeds, Manchester, other places as well, so I think

:41:50. > :41:54.communities realise that one person does not represent the whole

:41:55. > :41:59.community and it is about our human values. Rabbi Jonathan Roman, would

:42:00. > :42:01.you have concerns about division in the aftermath of something like

:42:02. > :42:15.this? No, the fact there are three -- the Christian, a Jew and Muslim

:42:16. > :42:24.sitting together, after the last attack, I said a prayer in Hebrew,

:42:25. > :42:28.an imam came and said a prayer in Arabic. Something like that would

:42:29. > :42:32.not have happened if there had not been an attack like that? Yes,

:42:33. > :42:35.although to be honest it was built on years and years of coming

:42:36. > :42:39.together and although, yes, we are now talking about it, actually the

:42:40. > :42:44.interfaith dialogue has been going on for decades, probably 50 or 60

:42:45. > :42:47.years, and it is that slow local individual work that has been

:42:48. > :42:54.building up which allows us to be on first name terms and know about each

:42:55. > :42:58.other's theology. The only problem about last night was a pop-up

:42:59. > :43:04.community and I think this is where religious buildings and institutions

:43:05. > :43:06.school because people do need their candlelight, their songs, their

:43:07. > :43:10.camaraderie, but what happens next week? That community in Trafalgar

:43:11. > :43:14.Square has gone but the synagogue, the mosque, the church will be open

:43:15. > :43:18.week after week so people who have the need to disperse -- to express

:43:19. > :43:24.their dismay, anger, for solidarity, they have a place to go week after

:43:25. > :43:29.week. What you talk about, the slow building of relations in communities

:43:30. > :43:36.obviously sounds absolutely ideal and like a good place to be. Luke,

:43:37. > :43:43.how do you see that actually in operation? In London I think we have

:43:44. > :43:46.a very deep sense of the work that goes on in that way locally all the

:43:47. > :43:50.time, it was one of those things that bubbles from the bottom up,

:43:51. > :43:55.people know one another because they share the same streets and shops, we

:43:56. > :44:03.work together in all sorts of places, schools and across all

:44:04. > :44:08.workplaces. We see, therefore, as Jonathan says, we see this bubbling

:44:09. > :44:11.up from the bottom all the time. I think one of the main pieces of work

:44:12. > :44:17.that we have going on is precisely this response to major attacks and

:44:18. > :44:21.other things that can happen, whether it be a flood or a fire,

:44:22. > :44:25.where the faith communities have a well worked out system for working

:44:26. > :44:30.together. What I'm hearing from all of you is a very positive message

:44:31. > :44:35.about when it goes right but clearly there are incidents of division of

:44:36. > :44:41.people who are not pulling together, and hatred being fuelled. To be

:44:42. > :44:44.honest, there are lunatics out there, not just religious lunatics

:44:45. > :44:48.but political lunatics, animal-rights lunatics, it is human

:44:49. > :44:53.nature, not religion, and by and large religion is there as a force

:44:54. > :44:57.for good. And again, thinking about what happened yesterday, there was

:44:58. > :45:01.one terrorist but hundreds of people who stopped to rescue, comfort, give

:45:02. > :45:05.medical aid, thousands upon thousands now giving money, and we

:45:06. > :45:13.underestimate that most people are good, decent, friendly. Brendan Cox

:45:14. > :45:17.make the point that just because a Yorkshireman committed a murder it

:45:18. > :45:24.does not make all Yorkshiremen murderers. On that, Yunus, how

:45:25. > :45:27.important is the language, because Theresa May said yesterday it was

:45:28. > :45:32.wrong to describe the attack as Islamic terrorism, she said it was

:45:33. > :45:36.Islamist, a perversion of the great debate. I personally think Islamist

:45:37. > :45:41.is also a perversion, because if you bring Islam into it, even as

:45:42. > :45:47.Islamist, I think that is a problem in itself. How would you describe

:45:48. > :45:51.it? For me, it is a lot to do with politics, it is a lot to do with the

:45:52. > :45:57.Middle East, it is a lot to do with power structures within the Middle

:45:58. > :46:03.East, and then the connection that the international players try to

:46:04. > :46:09.find within this community of hours to say, look, I connection with you

:46:10. > :46:13.and I is Islam, and they use is lamb as the catch. Yes, if land is used

:46:14. > :46:22.as a cat but in reality there are lots of different issues -- Islam.

:46:23. > :46:26.Are you concerned that bringing the term Islam is divisive? Yes, it is

:46:27. > :46:29.part of the problem, but not the whole problem. This individual might

:46:30. > :46:34.have been a Muslim but there are lots of issues going on. I think one

:46:35. > :46:43.of the biggest issues that we have to try to bring the communities

:46:44. > :46:46.together is the outcast routes, people live on the same streets but

:46:47. > :46:50.don't talk to each other, people go to the shops but don't talk to the

:46:51. > :46:55.person in front of them. People have taken Islam from the media or from

:46:56. > :46:59.what they see or they breed and it gives that message. I would urge

:47:00. > :47:03.people to talk to each other, Muslims talking to Christians,

:47:04. > :47:07.Christians talking to Jews. It has to happen at grassroots. I have been

:47:08. > :47:14.invited, before this incident, to speak to some rabbis next week in an

:47:15. > :47:17.mosque, and that is how it is going to happen, communities need to open

:47:18. > :47:22.their doors and we need to speak to each other. In the 60s and 70s doors

:47:23. > :47:26.were open, everyone knew each other. Today we are very individualistic

:47:27. > :47:29.and therefore people just ignore each other, they take the news all

:47:30. > :47:34.the information from the media and it can be skewed.

:47:35. > :47:39.The coming together you are talking about is very much faith -based. But

:47:40. > :47:44.not everybody out there has faith and is involved in communities like

:47:45. > :47:47.that. And actually they live in communities where people don't

:47:48. > :47:50.intersect with each other. If there's one thing that people do as

:47:51. > :47:54.a result of what happened at Westminster, it is that if you have

:47:55. > :47:59.a neighbour or someone in your street of a different race, colour,

:48:00. > :48:03.ethnic group of faith, or in the office at work, who you nod to but

:48:04. > :48:08.don't know, say, come round for a cup of tea. Do you think people

:48:09. > :48:13.would do that these days? People think, what can we do. Is a

:48:14. > :48:17.practical example. Spend 15 minutes with someone, get to know them and

:48:18. > :48:23.find out how they are different but how they worry about the same

:48:24. > :48:27.things, education, mortgage, and see the commonality underneath. Going

:48:28. > :48:32.back to your earlier point about words, I wouldn't want to describe

:48:33. > :48:36.the chap yesterday as Islamist, call him a criminal, call him a murderer,

:48:37. > :48:44.and put him on a par with all the other people who do atrocious

:48:45. > :48:47.things. Absolutely. Just going back to... Ask people why they dress

:48:48. > :48:51.differently, ask about their cultures, don't just as Schumann.

:48:52. > :48:58.Sometimes we see somebody on the street and just because it's written

:48:59. > :49:08.this person used to dress in black, or they used to dress in white

:49:09. > :49:11.robes. -- don't just assume. That brings suspicion. What if he was a

:49:12. > :49:18.gardener, what if he was a coffee shop owner? Are all copy shop owners

:49:19. > :49:21.or gardeners now guilty? Language is really important, we need to be

:49:22. > :49:27.careful with language. What are your thoughts? I think the atomisation of

:49:28. > :49:31.society are something we stand against as religious people. The

:49:32. > :49:34.message of most religions is about people coming together. Just talking

:49:35. > :49:40.to our neighbours, engaging with the person in the shop. We go to the

:49:41. > :49:45.machine, the card pins and we walk away without engaging with anybody.

:49:46. > :49:48.Finding all those opportunities, in the workplace, wherever we are

:49:49. > :49:52.during the day, how we are engaging with the people with whom we live

:49:53. > :49:56.and with whom we share our society. And finding those opportunities to

:49:57. > :50:00.reach out to them, rather than just being in an atomised world. I think

:50:01. > :50:03.the other thing is that if we are clear about what we believe and

:50:04. > :50:09.think ourselves, we more easily reach out to someone who is

:50:10. > :50:13.different. What we have tended to do in our discussion about inclusivity,

:50:14. > :50:19.is to ask for a kind of anodyne uniformity, that then sees

:50:20. > :50:26.difference as something of which to be afraid. That kind of unity isn't

:50:27. > :50:29.unity at all. It's a way of expressing atomisation and of

:50:30. > :50:33.increasing fear. Whereas if we are able in all of our wonderful

:50:34. > :50:37.difference, to express that clearly, and then from that to be able to

:50:38. > :50:42.reach out to others, it seems to me we can form a stronger and more

:50:43. > :50:46.effective society. And at the same time rescue got from the terrorists.

:50:47. > :50:50.There's no doubt religion has been hijacked by these lunatics and we

:50:51. > :50:56.can say actually... That's been going on forever. We had Protestant

:50:57. > :51:02.and Catholic terrorists and all that sort of thing. Thank you for joining

:51:03. > :51:08.us. Let us know your thoughts. We'll be talking in a few moments about

:51:09. > :51:13.how to actually tackle IS. Let's bring you some breaking news we are

:51:14. > :51:16.hearing out of Egypt. We hear the former President Hosni Mubarak has

:51:17. > :51:25.walked free for the first time in six years. He has been released from

:51:26. > :51:29.jail. There is an image of him. He is out of prison for the first time

:51:30. > :51:33.in six years. We will bring you more on that as we have it.

:51:34. > :51:35.Coming up, we look at the threat of home-grown terror,

:51:36. > :51:37.and what the government is doing to stop UK citizens

:51:38. > :51:53.We can bring you some comments on arming the police following on from

:51:54. > :51:57.the earlier conversation we had about security issues arising from

:51:58. > :52:00.the terror attack. One viewer says, I think all police should receive

:52:01. > :52:05.firearms training but I don't think they should be routinely armed.

:52:06. > :52:08.Another viewer says, people need to step back, we don't need armed

:52:09. > :52:14.police on our streets, let's not forget the attack failed. Another

:52:15. > :52:20.tweet, guns, tasered, buttons, give the police something. Another Tweet,

:52:21. > :52:23.the world is changing, the threat is changing, for the safety of police

:52:24. > :52:28.and public they all have to be armed. A tweet, armed police should

:52:29. > :52:36.have been around the gate to cover the backs of the an armed police.

:52:37. > :52:40.Imagine if the terrorist had a gun. Please keep your comments coming in.

:52:41. > :52:42.The so-called Islamic State yesterday claimed it was behind

:52:43. > :52:45.the attack in London which resulted in the death of three people

:52:46. > :52:48.Over the last 18 months IS has claimed responsibility for several

:52:49. > :52:50.atrocities in Europe, including shootings

:52:51. > :52:53.But the Islamist group has suffered heavy losses in Syria,

:52:54. > :52:56.and in Iraq is facing defeat in its last stronghold in Mosul.

:52:57. > :53:07.Does that mean future attacks in the West are less likely?

:53:08. > :53:09.Joining me now is Dr Natasha Underhill from

:53:10. > :53:11.Nottingham Trent University and Charlie Winter from

:53:12. > :53:13.the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation

:53:14. > :53:16.and Political Violence at King's College London.

:53:17. > :53:24.Thank you for joining us. IS has claimed Khalid Masood as one of its

:53:25. > :53:28.soldiers and said this is an act of IS. Natasha, what are your thoughts

:53:29. > :53:35.on whether this was effectively a lone wolf or whether, as IS claims,

:53:36. > :53:39.it had some level of involvement? I would be more inclined to assume

:53:40. > :53:43.this was a lone wolf, that this person had become almost self

:53:44. > :53:46.radicalised. What IS are actually doing is capitalising on the

:53:47. > :53:51.publicity. All terrorist organisations want a theatre and

:53:52. > :53:54.this is a global news story. Essentially they are just

:53:55. > :53:58.capitalising on the fact that this is getting their name out there,

:53:59. > :54:01.because of the losses they have been suffering, they need something to

:54:02. > :54:08.promote themselves again. This is the perfect example of that.

:54:09. > :54:14.Charlie, do you doubt that IS was directly involved? Security services

:54:15. > :54:16.look at three options whether IS could have actively directed

:54:17. > :54:23.something, enabled it or inspired it. Based on the information that we

:54:24. > :54:26.have in front of us now, based on everything that Islamic State has

:54:27. > :54:32.said over the course of the last 36 hours, there's nothing to indicate

:54:33. > :54:37.it had an instructive role in the operation. The way it's framed its

:54:38. > :54:41.messaging sense and all of its propaganda regarding everything

:54:42. > :54:45.else, the way it's talking or not talking about London, is really

:54:46. > :54:48.significant. You can read into that based on what happened in the past.

:54:49. > :54:54.All of the indication is that this was an attack it's trying to framer

:54:55. > :55:00.something it inspired rather than it directed. If it had directed it, it

:55:01. > :55:05.would be going to town on showing it did. Martyrdom videos frequently

:55:06. > :55:10.emerge, don't they? They do, there is a slim chance that Khalid Masood

:55:11. > :55:13.could have filmed himself pledging allegiance to the leader of Islamic

:55:14. > :55:18.State and sent it out and there could be a video that will show

:55:19. > :55:25.that. But until that happens, I don't think we should think about it

:55:26. > :55:28.as if it's a reality already. Worthy organisation to try and claim this

:55:29. > :55:32.operation as something it directed, the whole propaganda response would

:55:33. > :55:36.have been very different -- were the organisation to try and claim this

:55:37. > :55:41.operation. We talked about the impact on the ground on IS's

:55:42. > :55:46.capabilities, is translating to IS's power being reduced in terms of the

:55:47. > :55:50.operations that can be carried out, away from Syria and Iraqi? There's

:55:51. > :55:54.definitely a relationship between what happens in Syria and Iraq and

:55:55. > :55:59.the rest of the world. But I would be a bit cautious about drawing to

:56:00. > :56:05.linear a connection between the two. Definitely the case is that, as the

:56:06. > :56:09.Islamic State loses Mosul and its territories in Syria crumble, that's

:56:10. > :56:13.not even to mention Libya, it really does need this kind of attack, it

:56:14. > :56:17.needs to derive momentum from somewhere in order to keep its

:56:18. > :56:21.current supporters interested, to maintain a sense of legitimacy,

:56:22. > :56:25.credibility, relevance. So this kind of attack and the propaganda that

:56:26. > :56:32.follows it, the impact, is so important for Islamic State now. If

:56:33. > :56:36.we understand all of these atrocities through that lens, I

:56:37. > :56:40.think it really helps to allow us to point towards its strategic logic.

:56:41. > :56:47.How would you describe the strategic logic of IS, Natasha? And what its

:56:48. > :56:50.capabilities are? At the moment I think we are slightly over

:56:51. > :56:53.estimating the group. I think in a way we are giving them too much

:56:54. > :56:57.credit for what they can achieve. Yes, they've taken territory, yes

:56:58. > :57:01.they been able to contain and control. What we need to do is

:57:02. > :57:04.capitalise on their losses. We have to remember they are built on an

:57:05. > :57:09.ideology whether caliphate is key. They were able to establish that but

:57:10. > :57:15.now they are losing that territory again. What we need to do is make

:57:16. > :57:19.sure we aren't just challenging then militarily but also targeting that

:57:20. > :57:22.ideology. Discredit their idea of the caliphate, discredit them in

:57:23. > :57:25.terms of their successes and capitalise on that. I think we need

:57:26. > :57:30.to think clearly about countering not just the organisation itself,

:57:31. > :57:35.but also its ideology. This is the most dangerous thing for us here in

:57:36. > :57:39.the West. Charlie, a fundamental aspect of the way it operates is

:57:40. > :57:42.online. Absolutely. And through propaganda that it disseminates

:57:43. > :57:46.online. What we've seen over the last few days is a utter

:57:47. > :57:51.transformation in how it uses the inter-net. Things like Twitter,

:57:52. > :57:55.Facebook, they are still important, but it's inhospitable for Islamic

:57:56. > :57:59.State supporters. We've seen a retreat into darker parts of the

:58:00. > :58:02.inter-net which are more difficult to access, which is good in the

:58:03. > :58:06.grand scheme of things but it means in terms of getting propaganda out

:58:07. > :58:09.there it's a lot more difficult. Of course that makes it more difficult

:58:10. > :58:13.to monitor for the intelligence services because a lot of these

:58:14. > :58:19.channels are encrypted or secret and that's another level of difficulty.

:58:20. > :58:23.In the broadest terms, the fact is its propaganda is no longer as easy

:58:24. > :58:28.to access on the inter-as it once was. We have to commend everyone

:58:29. > :58:36.involved in making that situation happen. -- the inter-net. Coming up.

:58:37. > :58:38.Coming up, coping with the aftermath of a terror attack.

:58:39. > :58:40.I'll hear from some people who witnessed horrific events

:58:41. > :58:53.Good morning. Contrasting weather conditions across the UK at the

:58:54. > :58:58.moment. This is the scene for many of you, a lovely shot there. We've

:58:59. > :59:03.got blue skies overhead. It's a different story across some southern

:59:04. > :59:08.parts of England and the North of Scotland. Cloudy conditions much

:59:09. > :59:13.like this one. That's under this sheet of clouds. There are two areas

:59:14. > :59:19.of cloud, this is high cloud, the most it's sunny conditions through

:59:20. > :59:23.the central area of the UK. This cloud is producing outbreaks of rain

:59:24. > :59:26.across Somerset, Devon and Cornwall. Pretty cold in the South banks to

:59:27. > :59:32.the wind. Things will brighten up here. Rain through parts of northern

:59:33. > :59:38.Scotland this morning but something a bit brighter into the afternoon.

:59:39. > :59:45.The vast majority of the UK, it's a sunny Friday and very pleasant too

:59:46. > :59:49.with light winds. But high pressure is in charge for the central suede

:59:50. > :59:55.and where the winds are lightest, will seize on mist and fog form. --

:59:56. > :00:05.the central area where the winds are lightest. Conditions are colder than

:00:06. > :00:10.last night. We're into the weekend on a pretty chilly start. High

:00:11. > :00:14.pressure is their right across us. On the outskirts we've got breezy

:00:15. > :00:17.conditions in northern Scotland. A brighter day in the south but still

:00:18. > :00:22.pretty blustery, weather winds are lightest and for most of you, it

:00:23. > :00:24.will be a sunny day. Even sunnier across the South than today.

:00:25. > :00:36.Temperatures will lift up quite nicely. If you are along some of

:00:37. > :00:44.these eastern coasts it's a different story. Strong winds coming

:00:45. > :00:47.off a chilly North Sea. You'll still have the same strong sunshine

:00:48. > :00:51.overhead. That's because high pressure remains with us. It's there

:00:52. > :00:55.into Saturday night. Just a bit further north, the focus for some

:00:56. > :00:58.mist and fog and coldest conditions will be Scotland, Northern Ireland

:00:59. > :01:02.and northern England. Most. Mothering Sunday on a dry and sunny

:01:03. > :01:09.note. Quite chilly across eastern areas. We could get around 16 or 17

:01:10. > :01:13.Celsius. Warmest conditions perhaps in the highlands of Scotland. On

:01:14. > :01:17.Sunday, that clock change is coming and we are going to British

:01:18. > :01:21.summertime. Good news for those working the night shift, not so much

:01:22. > :01:22.for those who don't want to get up early. At least the evenings will be

:01:23. > :01:27.brighter. Hello, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:01:28. > :01:30.welcome to the show. More details emerge

:01:31. > :01:33.of the man who carried out Khalid Masood was previously known

:01:34. > :01:45.as Adrian Russell Ajao A woman who rushed to help one

:01:46. > :01:59.of the victims on Westminster bridge I was just talking to him, really,

:02:00. > :02:02.he was unconscious but you never know what people are aware of

:02:03. > :02:05.themselves so I was talking to him, telling him what was going on,

:02:06. > :02:09.describing when the ambulances were coming and hoping some part of him

:02:10. > :02:11.was registering our present and that we were there to help him.

:02:12. > :02:21.An American tourist posts a picture of murdered police

:02:22. > :02:23.officer Keith Palmer before he died, as the 75-year-old man

:02:24. > :02:26.who died from his injuries last night is named as Leslie Rhodes

:02:27. > :02:32.Police say they have made two most significant arrests overnight and

:02:33. > :02:38.are trawling through massive amounts of computer data. They urge the

:02:39. > :02:41.public to help them. We have had contact with 3500 witnesses,

:02:42. > :02:48.including 1000 people from Westminster Bridge and about 2500

:02:49. > :02:51.within the Parliamentary estate. I'm Ben Brown live at Westminster

:02:52. > :02:55.where the roads have reopened for the first time since the attack. I

:02:56. > :02:55.will bring you the latest on the fast-moving police investigation

:02:56. > :03:11.into what happened here. Hello, welcome to the programme, we

:03:12. > :03:15.are live until 11am. One e-mail, we must protect the

:03:16. > :03:18.protectors. In this day and age, police are like soldiers on our

:03:19. > :03:22.street and they need armour like the Knights of old. They are here rose

:03:23. > :03:26.and the threat of anyone, any time needs to be addressed properly.

:03:27. > :03:31.Another e-mail, the police should carry Tasers in places like

:03:32. > :03:34.Parliament. If PC Palmer had been armed with one, he may still be

:03:35. > :03:38.alive. An e-mail from Val, I would feel

:03:39. > :03:47.reassured seeing police armed on the streets. We have to wake up and

:03:48. > :03:49.realise this is the world we are now living in.

:03:50. > :03:51.Thank you for those comments, you are always welcome to get in touch

:03:52. > :03:54.with us throughout the programme. Texts will be charged at the

:03:55. > :03:58.standard network rate. Let's get the latest from Ben Brown now in

:03:59. > :04:01.Westminster. Good morning, Joanna. Westminster

:04:02. > :04:02.seems to be back to normal this morning, the roads around here open

:04:03. > :04:05.border first time since the attack. Police investigating the attack

:04:06. > :04:07.on Westminster have revealed that they've made two further

:04:08. > :04:10."significant" arrests overnight. Nine people are now in custody,

:04:11. > :04:16.one woman has been released on bail. A fourth victim who died last night

:04:17. > :04:20.has been named by police as 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes

:04:21. > :04:26.from Streatham, in South London. Scotland Yard's Acting

:04:27. > :04:28.Deputy Commissioner, Mark Rowley, said the attacker,

:04:29. > :04:32.Khalid Masood, had been born First, for the latest

:04:33. > :04:35.on the investigation, This photo is thought to have been

:04:36. > :04:42.taken of PC Keith Palmer just 45 The American tourist seen with him

:04:43. > :04:48.was at Westminster prior to the attack and asked

:04:49. > :04:52.if she could pose with the opposite. Other victims of the attack

:04:53. > :04:58.were Aysha Frade, a mother of two. Also an American

:04:59. > :05:02.tourist, Kurt Cochran. Police have also confirmed that

:05:03. > :05:07.another man has died. Whilst we await formal

:05:08. > :05:09.identification, we believe that he is Leslie Rhodes,

:05:10. > :05:11.aged 75, from Streatham My thoughts are with his

:05:12. > :05:15.family at this time. Furthermore, two people remain

:05:16. > :05:18.in hospital in what is described as critical condition,

:05:19. > :05:22.and one person is considered to have The man responsible for the deaths

:05:23. > :05:38.was 52-year-old Khalid Masood, he was previously known

:05:39. > :05:42.as Adrian Russell Ajao. He was born in Kent and most

:05:43. > :05:45.recently lived in the West Midlands. He had a range of previous

:05:46. > :05:47.convictions including GBH, possession of offensive weapons,

:05:48. > :05:49.and public order offences. His last conviction was in 2003

:05:50. > :05:52.for possession of a knife. He was also known under a number

:05:53. > :05:55.of aliases, and he was known Police said overnight

:05:56. > :05:58.there were two significant arrests Nine people are in custody,

:05:59. > :06:10.one woman has been released on bail. Live searches are continuing. 2700

:06:11. > :06:13.items have been seized, including computer data. Police are appealing

:06:14. > :06:17.to the public for information as they try to piece together whether

:06:18. > :06:21.Masood acted alone or as part of a wider network.

:06:22. > :06:23.Anyone who knew Khalid Masood well, anyone who understands

:06:24. > :06:27.who his associates were, anyone who can provide

:06:28. > :06:29.information about the places he's recently visited.

:06:30. > :06:31.There might well be people out there who did have concerns

:06:32. > :06:34.about Masood but weren't sure or didn't feel comfortable

:06:35. > :06:36.for whatever reasons in passing that information to us.

:06:37. > :06:41.I now urge anyone with such information to call us.

:06:42. > :06:44.The attack has reverberated across the world, but it was an attack

:06:45. > :06:54.Shots show the Prime Minister being led away to safety

:06:55. > :06:56.by her security team, a scene of uncertainty.

:06:57. > :07:02.It was still unclear what had gone on outside the gates of Westminster.

:07:03. > :07:04.Last night the police, politicians and faith leaders

:07:05. > :07:07.joined thousands of people in Trafalgar Square,

:07:08. > :07:16.with the message that terrorism and fear will not prevail.

:07:17. > :07:19.A lot more detail emerging this morning about the police

:07:20. > :07:20.investigation. Let's get the latest

:07:21. > :07:22.from the Metropolitan Police Headquarters at Scotland Yard

:07:23. > :07:34.with our correspondent Yes, first we got more details about

:07:35. > :07:38.those who were injured in this attack, police now saying 50 people

:07:39. > :07:42.injured and of those being treated in hospital they said two are still

:07:43. > :07:47.considered to be in critical condition and one person considered

:07:48. > :07:51.to have life-threatening injuries. Two police officers remain in

:07:52. > :07:56.hospital with what are described as very significant injuries. Police

:07:57. > :08:01.said that those affected are from a cross-section of different ages and

:08:02. > :08:05.from at least 12 different nationalities, and we heard there in

:08:06. > :08:10.that report also new information about aliases used by the attacker,

:08:11. > :08:15.Khalid Masood. We have also heard more about the scope of this

:08:16. > :08:18.inquiries, police say it is an investigation involving hundreds of

:08:19. > :08:24.officers from across the counter terrorism network, they describe it

:08:25. > :08:30.as a very large, fast-paced investigation, focusing on Masood's

:08:31. > :08:33.possible motivation, preparation, potential associates. Police say

:08:34. > :08:38.they are determined to find out if he acted totally alone, if he was

:08:39. > :08:42.inspired by terrorist propaganda, if others had encouraged, supported or

:08:43. > :08:47.directed him. They said there have now been searches at five addresses

:08:48. > :08:53.ongoing, 16 searches concluded. They also say they have had contact with

:08:54. > :08:56.around 3500 witnesses, these are witnesses either from Westminster

:08:57. > :09:00.Bridge or the Parliamentary estate, and also an update on security,

:09:01. > :09:04.police saying there is now an enhanced armed police presence in

:09:05. > :09:07.London, they say the number of armed officers remains near double

:09:08. > :09:11.strength and in other parts of the UK up to one third more armed

:09:12. > :09:16.officers on duty. OK, Daniel, thank you very much

:09:17. > :09:18.indeed, Daniel Boettcher there for us at New Scotland Yard.

:09:19. > :09:20.Armed police have raided several properties in Birmingham

:09:21. > :09:22.Our correspondent Kathryn Stanczyszyn

:09:23. > :09:29.Two significant arrests that police have updated in the last hour,

:09:30. > :09:32.one of those was made overnight here in the West Midlands,

:09:33. > :09:35.one in the north-west, and seven of the arrests yesterday

:09:36. > :09:38.were made here in the West Midlands, too.

:09:39. > :09:42.As you say, we know the car that was used on that

:09:43. > :09:46.Westminster Bridge attack was actually hired from a rental

:09:47. > :09:51.centre around five minutes away from where I am now on Hagley Road.

:09:52. > :09:53.This was where the activity was focused first here

:09:54. > :09:56.in Birmingham on Wednesday night, a flat behind me was

:09:57. > :10:06.The activity then moved to a house about five minutes

:10:07. > :10:08.away, where it's believed that the attacker actually

:10:09. > :10:14.Neighbours shocked to recognise Khalid Masood in photographs,

:10:15. > :10:16.saying that they believed he'd been living in a house there up

:10:17. > :10:23.And the car rental centre was just a short walk from there,

:10:24. > :10:26.and BBC sources have told us that they believe he actually hired

:10:27. > :10:33.Now, this has been a huge police operation.

:10:34. > :10:35.Of course searches have spanned a big geographical area -

:10:36. > :10:37.Sussex, London, here in the West Midlands

:10:38. > :10:43.But of course the prevalence of the arrests made here

:10:44. > :10:46.in Birmingham have led people to talk about whether the city has

:10:47. > :10:50.Some of the press describing Birmingham as a terror

:10:51. > :10:56.Of course the vast majority of Muslims say this attack is not

:10:57. > :11:00.even in the same universe as their faith.

:11:01. > :11:12.And, indeed, the Birmingham Faith Leaders' Network has put out

:11:13. > :11:14.a statement saying, "We completely reject any attempt to see

:11:15. > :11:16.an opportunity to blame any particular community or faith

:11:17. > :11:19.in this city for the perverted actions of one individual."

:11:20. > :11:23.And, indeed, a special unity vigil is going to be held

:11:24. > :11:26.in Birmingham on the high street at 5pm today.

:11:27. > :11:28.That's been organised by the Muslim Engagement Network

:11:29. > :11:32.They say they want to pay tribute to the victims of this attack

:11:33. > :11:40.but also show that all communities in Birmingham are standing together.

:11:41. > :11:43.Kathryn Stanczyszyn reporting there from Birmingham.

:11:44. > :11:45.Last night, police said a 75-year-old man had died

:11:46. > :11:54.He has been named as Leslie Rhodes from Streatham in south London,

:11:55. > :11:59.taking the number of fatalities to four. More than 30 victims are being

:12:00. > :12:01.treated in various London hospitals, two people said to be critically

:12:02. > :12:03.ill. My colleague Fiona Lamdin

:12:04. > :12:05.was at King's College Hospital I'm about three miles

:12:06. > :12:11.from where the attack took place You can see the police

:12:12. > :12:14.still very much here, The very sad news that came in last

:12:15. > :12:18.night that 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes from Streatham,

:12:19. > :12:20.not far from here, died here at the hospital last night,

:12:21. > :12:23.which takes the number of victims to four who died

:12:24. > :12:25.following the attacks. So we now know Leslie Rhodes,

:12:26. > :12:28.we know PC Keith Palmer, the police officer who was protecting

:12:29. > :12:33.Parliament, who was stabbed. Aysha Frade, who was on her way

:12:34. > :12:39.to pick her two children up from school, and Kurt Cochran,

:12:40. > :12:42.the US tourist who was here celebrating his 25th

:12:43. > :12:43.wedding anniversary. Now, the hospital told us

:12:44. > :12:46.on Wednesday afternoon they brought We now know one is still in a very

:12:47. > :12:52.critical condition. Two people were allowed home

:12:53. > :12:55.yesterday, must have been a huge relief to their family,

:12:56. > :12:57.and so this morning we know there are still five victims

:12:58. > :13:08.being treated here behind me. Fiona Lamdin reporting. Here at

:13:09. > :13:12.Westminster the roads have reopened, live starting to return to normal,

:13:13. > :13:16.the tube station, Westminster Tube has reopened as well, but the police

:13:17. > :13:20.investigation gathering momentum and at the heart of it police trying to

:13:21. > :13:23.find out was this man, Khalid Masood, a lone wolf or did he have a

:13:24. > :13:27.composite? That is the latest from Westminster. -- did he have an

:13:28. > :13:28.accomplice. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:13:29. > :13:38.with a summary of today's news. The former president of Egypt, Hosni

:13:39. > :13:43.Mubarak, who was overthrown in 2011, has been released from a military

:13:44. > :13:48.hospital. He was serving six years for the treatment of protest is but

:13:49. > :13:50.he has been cleared of charges and has now left the military hospital

:13:51. > :13:52.where he was serving his sentence. Bad behaviour in English schools

:13:53. > :13:55.is not being dealt with properly and pupils' performance

:13:56. > :13:57.is being negatively effected. That's the view of

:13:58. > :13:58.the the Government's school behaviour expert,

:13:59. > :14:02.Tom Bennett. In a review published today,

:14:03. > :14:05.he says more funding and better training are needed

:14:06. > :14:07.to tackle the issue. The report also recommends that

:14:08. > :14:09.school inspectors pay more attention to behaviour issues,

:14:10. > :14:11.and warns they are often glossed over when schools

:14:12. > :14:14.produce good results. The President of the European

:14:15. > :14:17.Commission has told the BBC that the EU will not seek to punish

:14:18. > :14:21.Britain during Brexit negotiations. Speaking on the eve of the EU's 60th

:14:22. > :14:23.anniversary celebrations, Jean-Claude Juncker said the exit

:14:24. > :14:26.talks will be approached fairly but warned that Britain will be held

:14:27. > :14:29.to financial commitments made Customers should be paid automatic

:14:30. > :14:35.compensation by their phone companies for problems

:14:36. > :14:39.with landlines and broadband. The telecoms regulator Ofcom says

:14:40. > :14:42.providers should pay customers for slow repairs,

:14:43. > :14:44.delayed connections The plans could affect more

:14:45. > :14:49.than 2.5 million customers who would receive up to ?185 million

:14:50. > :14:52.in new compensation At the moment, compensation is only

:14:53. > :15:01.paid to a small number of customers. That's a summary of the latest BBC

:15:02. > :15:07.News - more at 10.30am. Do get in touch with us

:15:08. > :15:18.throughout the morning, in particular, lots of you getting

:15:19. > :15:20.in touch on whether police should be routinely armed in the wake of the

:15:21. > :15:23.terror attack in London. If you text, you will be charged

:15:24. > :15:26.at the standard network rate. It's been an impressive start

:15:27. > :15:31.to the new Formula One season for Lewis Hamilton as he goes

:15:32. > :15:34.for a fourth world title. He was fastest in both practice

:15:35. > :15:36.sessions today ahead And in second practice

:15:37. > :15:39.he was more than half a second faster than anyone,

:15:40. > :15:42.with the new cars for the 2017 season potentially knocking up

:15:43. > :15:48.to five seconds off lap times. Second quickest was Sebastian Vettel

:15:49. > :15:51.in his Ferrari, who Hamilton claimed would be his Mercedes team's biggest

:15:52. > :15:58.rivals this season. Hamilton called his opening 99%

:15:59. > :16:06.perfect. Rory McIlroy is out of the WGC

:16:07. > :16:08.Match Play golf, having The second of his three opponents

:16:09. > :16:12.in the round robin group stage of the tournament in Texas,

:16:13. > :16:15.Gary Woodland, pulled out, leaving Denmark's Soren Kjeldsen -

:16:16. > :16:17.who beat McIlroy on Wednesday - needing only a half

:16:18. > :16:19.a point in his match against Argentine Emiliano Grillo

:16:20. > :16:21.to eliminate the Northern Irishman. Kjeldsen was due to play his final

:16:22. > :16:24.group match against Woodland, so since he's guaranteed a win,

:16:25. > :16:26.McIlroy can't qualify. England's Tyrrell Hatton

:16:27. > :16:28.and Paul Casey won to But Masters champion

:16:29. > :16:34.Danny Willett is out. British Swimming is conducting

:16:35. > :16:36.an investigation after multiple bullying claims were made

:16:37. > :16:39.by Paralympians about a coach. BBC Sport has learned

:16:40. > :16:40.the complainants include Wales manager Chris Coleman

:16:41. > :16:56.insists their crucial World Cup qualifier against the Republic

:16:57. > :16:58.of Ireland tonight is not a must-win game, but admits there's

:16:59. > :17:01.a "desperation" in the squad Ireland are top of group D

:17:02. > :17:04.after four matches unbeaten, with Wales, having only won one

:17:05. > :17:21.of their qualifiers so far, You get halfway and see where you

:17:22. > :17:25.are in the campaign. You fighting at the wrong end or at the right end?

:17:26. > :17:31.All this pressure on us is what we've always wanted. I wish it, I've

:17:32. > :17:33.dreamt about it. To be halfway in the campaign and still have a say in

:17:34. > :17:38.who finishes top, who comes second. More details have emerged

:17:39. > :17:43.about Khalid Masood, the 52-year-old man who drove a car

:17:44. > :17:46.into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge on Wednesday before fatally

:17:47. > :17:48.stabbing a policeman guarding He was not an immigrant,

:17:49. > :17:58.he was previously known as Adrian Russell Ajao and lived

:17:59. > :18:00.in Dartford in Kent He grew up with his mum in Rye

:18:01. > :18:07.in East Sussex and there are reports of a conviction in Eastbourne

:18:08. > :18:11.in a local paper as late as 2003, At some point after 2003,

:18:12. > :18:14.he changed religion and adopted He is also believed to have lived

:18:15. > :18:20.in Luton and east London, and most recently in the West

:18:21. > :18:21.Midlands. The Sun newspaper claims he spent

:18:22. > :18:24.some time in Saudi Arabia as an English language teacher,

:18:25. > :18:27.but the BBC has been He was known to police

:18:28. > :18:35.and M15 and had convictions for assaults including GBH,

:18:36. > :18:37.possession of offensive weapons He'd also spent time in prison,

:18:38. > :18:42.but not recently and not So-called Islamic State have claimed

:18:43. > :18:47.responsibility for the attack. So how does some living on British

:18:48. > :18:50.soil become radicalised and are the UK Government's

:18:51. > :18:52.strategies to stop people carrying Let's speak now to Rashad Ali,

:18:53. > :19:02.a Senior fellow at the institute for Strategic Dialogue,

:19:03. > :19:04.which is a Counter Extremism Think Sara Khan, co-founder

:19:05. > :19:10.of the counter-extremism Dr Brooke Rogers, a Senior lecturer

:19:11. > :19:14.in Risk and Terror in the Department of War Studies at King's College

:19:15. > :19:15.London. She's a social psychologist

:19:16. > :19:17.specializing in the psychology of radicalization and the impact

:19:18. > :19:19.of terrorism and currently researching Lone Actor

:19:20. > :19:25.Extremist Events. Ali Milani, who is President of the

:19:26. > :19:29.Brunel University Students Union. And joining us from Salford

:19:30. > :19:31.we have Rizwaan Sabir, a Lecturer of Criminology

:19:32. > :19:33.at Liverpool John Moores University, a was himself arrested

:19:34. > :19:47.under anti-terror law. Thank you for joining us. What is

:19:48. > :19:53.your perspective on whether the government is doing the right thing

:19:54. > :19:58.on trying to stop radicalisation? We are talking about somebody who was

:19:59. > :20:02.born here, not born a Muslim and at some stage in his life he became

:20:03. > :20:08.radicalised. I think the case is a good illustration of the limitations

:20:09. > :20:12.of what any government can do. Essentially, thankfully, we don't

:20:13. > :20:16.live in a totalitarian state, which means we aren't monitoring every

:20:17. > :20:19.individual. We aren't gathering intelligence on everyone and keeping

:20:20. > :20:23.it. So therefore, there is no way you can stop an individual from

:20:24. > :20:28.getting into a car and committing something like this. It's one of the

:20:29. > :20:33.prices we pay for living in a liberal democracy. Having said that,

:20:34. > :20:36.there are big debates around radicalisation that are probably

:20:37. > :20:41.pertinent to understanding how we can tackle this. And what the actual

:20:42. > :20:46.cause is, and how does an individual get involved in this. Because I

:20:47. > :20:51.think it's easy to talk about counter extremism and prevention.

:20:52. > :20:55.But really, when it comes down to the individual level, it's often

:20:56. > :20:57.very difficult to be able to treat individuals who are being

:20:58. > :21:03.radicalised, for a number of reasons. The government does have an

:21:04. > :21:06.approach to this which is the channel programme, which has reached

:21:07. > :21:11.out to several thousand individuals that have gone through this. Three

:21:12. > :21:14.quarters allegedly from Islamist backgrounds and around 25% who are

:21:15. > :21:19.considered to be far right terrorists. There is a spectrum of

:21:20. > :21:23.individuals on the programme which the government is trying to do. I

:21:24. > :21:28.think the bigger problem is civil society. Which is what we can do to

:21:29. > :21:35.tackle this. What can we do to help as a community and society to stop

:21:36. > :21:39.the process of radicalisation within different parts of our society, stop

:21:40. > :21:43.the polarisation. We chat individuals we know of and provide

:21:44. > :21:48.support. In that regard there are lots of activities that are

:21:49. > :21:52.happening, but there's a huge gap in terms of what the extremists are

:21:53. > :21:57.doing, what they are Priscilla tithing and how they are active

:21:58. > :22:05.online. If you look at Britain First, they've got it enormous

:22:06. > :22:12.following on Facebook. Our response frankly has been, let's just say,

:22:13. > :22:17.not as effective, not as impactful or resourceful. What do you think

:22:18. > :22:21.are the most effective ways of stopping someone being radicalised?

:22:22. > :22:25.We know there isn't a single profile. Khalid Masood was a

:22:26. > :22:28.52-year-old man, that has caused shock among many young people

:22:29. > :22:34.because the assumption is its young people. There is no single profile.

:22:35. > :22:38.It's really important to recognise that it's a multi pronged approach.

:22:39. > :22:43.There is no one solution. There is no one answer, there has to be a

:22:44. > :22:46.multi pronged approach and engaged with all sections of society. I

:22:47. > :22:50.believe schools have a huge role to play in terms of building

:22:51. > :22:53.resilience, teaching young people critical thinking skills so they

:22:54. > :22:58.don't buy into online propaganda that we see available online, or in

:22:59. > :23:04.communities. Faith institutions have a very important role to play in

:23:05. > :23:11.teaching theological counter narratives to extremist ideology.

:23:12. > :23:18.Khalid Masood, there were concerns around him holding extreme views. I

:23:19. > :23:24.agree that the role of civil society is really critical. We need to be

:23:25. > :23:27.engaging with the police, we need to be reporting people if we have

:23:28. > :23:33.concerns to the Anti-Terrorist Hotline. I feel there is a gap where

:23:34. > :23:38.we recognise that we need to effectively counter the speech, come

:23:39. > :23:41.to the arguments, challenge those within our society who are promoting

:23:42. > :23:45.extremist views, because we know for a fact there are. I think it's

:23:46. > :23:51.really important we don't underestimate the reality. We know

:23:52. > :23:55.that MI5 in the past have said they are monitoring 3000 violent British

:23:56. > :23:59.Islamist extremists wanting to cause harm to our country. We know that

:24:00. > :24:02.there have been hundreds who have travelled to Syria to join jihadists

:24:03. > :24:10.organisations. We know there have been around 269 people convicted for

:24:11. > :24:15.Islamist terrorism offences. There's clearly a problem. It requires a

:24:16. > :24:18.multi pronged response from all sections of society, government,

:24:19. > :24:23.police, education and civil society. Are we getting better at stopping

:24:24. > :24:28.radicalisation in this country? This has been an ongoing debate and there

:24:29. > :24:33.are programmes in place, the Prevent programme, to try to do that. I

:24:34. > :24:39.think we are improving in respect of understanding the variety of ways in

:24:40. > :24:43.which we can intervene. If you think about Prevent, it's been very

:24:44. > :24:46.difficult to actually measure that in terms of establishing clear

:24:47. > :24:52.indicators of success. They did have a national indicator that they

:24:53. > :24:56.removed because it was so difficult to actually measure the success of

:24:57. > :25:00.Prevent programmes. When you look at the work being undertaken on the

:25:01. > :25:04.ground, you can see that even across boroughs, even a few streets away

:25:05. > :25:08.from one another, Prevent can take many different forms. For example,

:25:09. > :25:13.engaging with mothers to teach them about internet safety so they can

:25:14. > :25:17.pass that on. In another street, it could be engaging with youth groups

:25:18. > :25:20.to look at identity issues. On another road, it could be engaging

:25:21. > :25:25.with the facilities that can actually host guest speakers in

:25:26. > :25:28.making sure they are aware of the hate laws and that they are aware of

:25:29. > :25:36.the speakers coming in to engage within their facilities. This is a

:25:37. > :25:40.52-year-old man and that has caused surprise, it's somebody who is older

:25:41. > :25:44.and doesn't fit the normal profiles. What are your thoughts on what has

:25:45. > :25:47.happened? It's already been mentioned that there is no

:25:48. > :25:52.straightforward profiles are individuals who engage in armed

:25:53. > :25:56.violence. Usually we associate armed and political violence with young

:25:57. > :26:00.people but this case shows there is no one rule that applies to the

:26:01. > :26:05.whole process. I think when we use terms such as radicalisation and

:26:06. > :26:09.extremism, we are extremely careful as to these terms. The reason why I

:26:10. > :26:15.say that is because the term radicalisation, which has gained so

:26:16. > :26:20.much traction, is based on a framework that doesn't actually have

:26:21. > :26:22.any evidence. When we talk about radicalisation, the official

:26:23. > :26:29.definition is the process by which an individual leaves nonviolence and

:26:30. > :26:32.becomes engaged in armed violence. There is no empirical evidence to

:26:33. > :26:38.prove the core reason individuals become involved in armed violence,

:26:39. > :26:42.which the government's Prevent strategy says is ideology, actually

:26:43. > :26:46.causes terrorism. We have to make sure that we aren't using these

:26:47. > :26:50.terms and critically. The same applies to the turn extremism. One

:26:51. > :26:56.of your guests just referred to political violence through violent

:26:57. > :27:01.extremist Islamist. These are polemical turns that don't mean

:27:02. > :27:05.anything. What they eventually do is play, according to this historic

:27:06. > :27:08.discourse, in which we, the civilised West, are at war with a

:27:09. > :27:12.barbaric opponent that cannot be brought to the table. The anyway we

:27:13. > :27:18.can defeat them is by basically excluding them. Partially one of the

:27:19. > :27:22.reasons why political violence has become, or a militarised form of

:27:23. > :27:27.activism by Muslims, has become more normalised, is because the

:27:28. > :27:32.geopolitical situation and the international structures of the

:27:33. > :27:37.world powers essentially exclude Muslims from articulating an

:27:38. > :27:40.identity that seeks to govern according to a political

:27:41. > :27:45.interpretation of their faith. I think until we recognise that these

:27:46. > :27:47.are the drivers of political violence, political factors, we can

:27:48. > :27:52.sit here and talk about radicalisation and extremism and how

:27:53. > :27:56.we can implement more bollards outside Parliament or structure our

:27:57. > :28:00.landscapes to ensure security. But the reality is, there will always be

:28:01. > :28:05.somebody who will be willing to jump into a car and pick up a knife and

:28:06. > :28:09.undertake acts of violence. I would issue a word of caution around using

:28:10. > :28:12.these terms uncritically and look at the empirical evidence, which

:28:13. > :28:16.doesn't give us a simple profile into why people become involved in

:28:17. > :28:22.political violence. Partly I would agree with some of that. There is no

:28:23. > :28:26.singular profile. There were some factual mistakes that were made in

:28:27. > :28:32.terms of the government's perspective on this. It isn't that

:28:33. > :28:34.ideology is the cause, it's multifactorial and there's a lot of

:28:35. > :28:41.literature they put out to explain that. It is one of the primary

:28:42. > :28:50.motivating factor is that they say is extremist ideology. As I was

:28:51. > :28:56.saying, they've explained there is multiple factors, ideology being one

:28:57. > :29:01.of them. In terms of being able to understand that and put it into

:29:02. > :29:05.context, if you have an individual who has very strong political

:29:06. > :29:08.grievances, somebody who has personal, psychological issues

:29:09. > :29:13.maybe. If you take this as an example, not that we know the

:29:14. > :29:21.details but Khalid Masood obviously has a violent past. He's someone who

:29:22. > :29:24.is disposition and towards violence. A lot of people obviously have

:29:25. > :29:27.strong political views and don't turn to violence. Exactly. There's a

:29:28. > :29:31.danger in what the other guest was saying which was to create the idea

:29:32. > :29:34.that just because you have strong political views, that means you are

:29:35. > :29:41.inclined towards violence. It's not true. I'm not saying that. It's a

:29:42. > :29:43.dangerous part of what you were saying, it implies that strong

:29:44. > :29:48.political views somehow lead to violence, that's not the case.

:29:49. > :29:51.That's what the government is framing its Prevent infrastructure

:29:52. > :30:00.on. I did think anybody has said that except yourself. Let's let Sara

:30:01. > :30:04.come in. I think there is a clear misunderstanding of what the

:30:05. > :30:08.government's position on radicalisation is, on Prevent. If

:30:09. > :30:12.you look at the Channel guidance, it makes it clear that there is no

:30:13. > :30:16.single profile. It lists a range of different factors. It could be

:30:17. > :30:22.bullying, peer pressure and mental health issues. The beauty of Channel

:30:23. > :30:24.and Prevent in particular if it can recognise a multitude of

:30:25. > :30:25.vulnerabilities and should be able to be flexible enough to recognise

:30:26. > :30:33.that. One of those factors could be

:30:34. > :30:39.ideology, I have come across many young people in my years as an

:30:40. > :30:42.activist and they have highlighted how their children have been

:30:43. > :30:45.radicalised and given violent extremist views. We cannot

:30:46. > :30:50.underestimate that either but I think it is important to recognise

:30:51. > :30:53.that it is not a one size fits all solution, but the fact is we have to

:30:54. > :30:59.recognise that there is a problem and on the issue of Channel I

:31:00. > :31:03.remember the former director-general in the office for counterterrorism,

:31:04. > :31:08.he gave an interesting speech where he said 70% of people who went

:31:09. > :31:16.through the Channel scheme did not need further intervention or help,

:31:17. > :31:21.showing that Channel and Prevent is working, and if there was not

:31:22. > :31:25.Channel all Prevent, what would we have in place to provide support to

:31:26. > :31:32.those people in our country who are at risk of radicalisation? At the

:31:33. > :31:40.moment, those who oppose Prevent have not offered any other strategy

:31:41. > :31:45.to help people who are prepared to carry out these acts against our

:31:46. > :31:49.country. We're out of time... Very briefly. The point about Channel and

:31:50. > :31:54.mentioning mental health, etc, these sound like legitimate points but the

:31:55. > :31:57.key point is that we are lumping the blame on the individual rather than

:31:58. > :32:02.looking at the political reality within which the individual

:32:03. > :32:05.operates, saying, this is nothing to do with us, and if you look at the

:32:06. > :32:11.history of the world it has everything to do with us. Thank you.

:32:12. > :32:14.Sorry, we are out of time, we've got lots more ground to cover on the

:32:15. > :32:17.programme, but thank you all very much.

:32:18. > :32:21.I just want to bring another comment on armed police because this is one

:32:22. > :32:25.aspect of what we have been talking about this morning, it has got lots

:32:26. > :32:29.of comments from you. Phil says, as a serving officer I would advise

:32:30. > :32:33.that most officers do not want to carry firearms for one reason and

:32:34. > :32:37.one reason alone, when we are forced to use them we get crucified by the

:32:38. > :32:42.CPS, the courts, politicians and the media. Any officer could look

:32:43. > :32:45.forward to 18 to 24 months of uncertainty, not knowing if they are

:32:46. > :32:49.going to jail or going to lose their job and pension. The officers and

:32:50. > :32:53.decisions they make in an instant under extreme pressure are judged by

:32:54. > :32:57.armchair experts who have never had to face life or death decision.

:32:58. > :33:00.Whilst I agree there must be oversight and transparency, at the

:33:01. > :33:02.moment we have a witchhunt. Thank you for that, keep them

:33:03. > :33:05.coming. Also coming up... We'll hear from some who have

:33:06. > :33:08.witnessed horrific events With the news, here's Annita

:33:09. > :33:17.in the BBC Newsroom. A fourth victim who died last night

:33:18. > :33:22.after being knocked down in the Westminster attack has been

:33:23. > :33:25.named by police as 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes from Streatham,

:33:26. > :33:27.in South London. Two people remain in hospital

:33:28. > :33:31.in a critical condition. Two police officers hurt

:33:32. > :33:33.in the attack are also in hospital In a statement this morning,

:33:34. > :33:40.police investigating the attack have revealed that they've made two

:33:41. > :33:41.further significant Nine people are now in custody,

:33:42. > :33:47.one woman has been released on bail. Police have also revealed

:33:48. > :33:58.the attacker, Khalid Masood, was previously called

:33:59. > :34:01.Adrian Russell Ajao. The police have appealed

:34:02. > :34:03.for information from anyone The former president of Egypt,

:34:04. > :34:06.Hosni Mubarak, who was overthrown after the Arab Spring uprisings

:34:07. > :34:08.of 2011, has been freed Mubarak served almost six years

:34:09. > :34:17.in detention on charges of killing protesters in the uprising that

:34:18. > :34:19.ended his 30-year rule. But earlier this month an appeals

:34:20. > :34:31.court cleared him of these charges Let's speed now to our correspondent

:34:32. > :34:36.in Cairo. Presumably his release is controversial?

:34:37. > :34:42.Definitely, it is controversial, it is disappointing, frustrating to

:34:43. > :34:47.many people who supported the Revolution one day, people who took

:34:48. > :34:51.to Tahrir Square to topple former president Mubarak, they saw him as a

:34:52. > :34:55.symbol of corruption and repression so the fact that he went back home

:34:56. > :35:02.today having breakfast with his family and friends, as his lawyer

:35:03. > :35:07.told us a short while ago, this is a matter of great frustration and

:35:08. > :35:11.disappointment to supporters of the revolution. But on the other hand

:35:12. > :35:17.there are some of the people who see Mubarak as a story of the past, they

:35:18. > :35:22.just focus on Egypt today, concerned more about the economic conditions,

:35:23. > :35:27.the political situation, so there are people who see this as

:35:28. > :35:31.frustration and disappointment, and there are others who just want to

:35:32. > :35:35.focus on what is lying ahead, and they just considered Mubarak

:35:36. > :35:41.something from the past. But still, his release today lies in sharp

:35:42. > :35:45.contradiction with having tens of thousands of political prisoners

:35:46. > :35:49.behind bars according to many local NGOs, so the fact that this man was

:35:50. > :35:52.seen as a symbol of corruption and oppression by some people is free

:35:53. > :35:56.while many political activist and political prisoners are behind bars

:35:57. > :36:00.still brings a lot of disappointment, especially to those

:36:01. > :36:01.who supported the revolution more than six years ago.

:36:02. > :36:05.Sally, thank you for that. Bad behaviour in English schools

:36:06. > :36:07.is not being dealt with properly and pupils' performance

:36:08. > :36:09.is being negatively effected. That's the view of

:36:10. > :36:11.the the Government's school behaviour expert,

:36:12. > :36:13.Tom Bennett. In a review published today,

:36:14. > :36:15.he says more funding and better training are needed

:36:16. > :36:18.to tackle the issue. The report also recommends that

:36:19. > :36:20.school inspectors pay more attention to behaviour issues,

:36:21. > :36:22.and warns they are often glossed over when schools

:36:23. > :36:28.produce good results. The President of the European

:36:29. > :36:31.Commission has told the BBC that the EU will not seek to punish

:36:32. > :36:34.Britain during Brexit negotiations. Speaking on the eve of the EU's 60th

:36:35. > :36:37.anniversary celebrations, Jean-Claude Juncker said the exit

:36:38. > :36:40.talks will be approached fairly but warned that Britain will be held

:36:41. > :36:43.to financial commitments made Customers should be paid automatic

:36:44. > :36:50.compensation by their phone companies for problems

:36:51. > :36:53.with landlines and broadband. The telecoms regulator Ofcom says

:36:54. > :36:56.providers should pay customers for slow repairs,

:36:57. > :36:58.delayed connections The plans could affect more

:36:59. > :37:03.than 2.5 million customers who would receive up to ?185 million

:37:04. > :37:06.in new compensation At the moment, compensation is only

:37:07. > :37:16.paid to a small number of customers. That's a summary of the latest

:37:17. > :37:19.news, join me for BBC Lewis Hamilton called his first day

:37:20. > :37:30.of the new Formula One season "99% perfect" after finishing fastest

:37:31. > :37:32.in both practice sessions ahead He was more than half a second

:37:33. > :37:39.quicker than the rest in the second session and that,

:37:40. > :37:41.in Formula One, particularly That lap allowed him to finish ahead

:37:42. > :37:51.of Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel and new Mercedes teammate

:37:52. > :37:55.Valteri Bottas in Melbourne. Tottenham's Dele Alli is banned

:37:56. > :37:59.for three European club games after his red card

:38:00. > :38:01.during the Europa League The suspension will be

:38:02. > :38:05.served if Spurs get Soren Kjeldsen's win at the WGC

:38:06. > :38:10.Match Play golf sends And the world number two didn't even

:38:11. > :38:18.play after his opponent withdrew. As a result Kjeldsen needed just

:38:19. > :38:21.a half to prevent McIlroy reaching He got the point he needed, McIlroy

:38:22. > :38:27.is out. And David Haye has been called

:38:28. > :38:29.before boxing authorities to explain his comments

:38:30. > :38:31.in the build-up to his heavyweight Haye had graphically described

:38:32. > :38:45.the injuries that he hoped That is all Gosport Borough now,

:38:46. > :38:47.more on BBC News throughout the day. Last night a candlelit vigil was

:38:48. > :38:51.held in Trafalgar Square to remember those who lost their lives and were

:38:52. > :38:57.injured in the Westminster terror attack. Among thousands who attended

:38:58. > :38:58.were religious leaders from a number of faith is keen to show unity and

:38:59. > :39:14.bring communities together. People have tried to tear this city

:39:15. > :39:20.apart with acts of terror many times before. They have never succeeded,

:39:21. > :39:31.and they never will. APPLAUSE.

:39:32. > :39:36.We come together as Londoners tonight to remember those who have

:39:37. > :39:42.lost their lives and all those affected by the horrific attack

:39:43. > :39:44.yesterday. Londoners will never be cowed by terrorism will stop

:39:45. > :40:29.APPLAUSE. As London and the UK begin to come

:40:30. > :40:30.to terms with what has happened, how does the healing process start, and

:40:31. > :40:35.is it possible to move forward? Well, we can now speak to four

:40:36. > :40:38.people who have witnessed terror attacks that have happened

:40:39. > :40:40.across Europe in recent years about their experiences and how

:40:41. > :40:43.they learnt to cope with what they'd been through and deal

:40:44. > :40:45.with the aftermath. Joining us via Skype from Nice

:40:46. > :40:48.is Peter Chesley, who was almost hit by a truck in the Nice

:40:49. > :40:50.attack last summer. Sumit Gupta owns a restaurant

:40:51. > :40:53.in Brussels, he can talk to us about how he was impacted

:40:54. > :40:56.by the suicide bombings He's on the phone in Blackpool,

:40:57. > :41:11.and got caught up in the Berlin Peter, you were nearly hit by the

:41:12. > :41:15.truck in Nice, what happened to you? I was on the promenade with lots of

:41:16. > :41:23.other people after watching the fireworks in celebration, and I was

:41:24. > :41:27.with my ex-girlfriend, we were one of the luckier ones, really, because

:41:28. > :41:35.the truck mistrust by a few metres. It came between us, my girlfriend

:41:36. > :41:42.went one way, I went the other way, it just missed bus but I watched the

:41:43. > :41:47.truck the whole way because of the swirling to make sure I didn't run

:41:48. > :41:57.in front of it. I saw lots of people get hit and some people die. What

:41:58. > :42:02.impact has that had on you? Locally, the kind of person I am, it didn't

:42:03. > :42:07.have as much impact on me as maybe it has on others, and as I know it

:42:08. > :42:12.has on others. My girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, is still having

:42:13. > :42:17.treatment in terms of with a psychiatrist, but for me it was

:42:18. > :42:24.quite a quick process to kind of come to terms with it. I'm a

:42:25. > :42:28.logical, rational person, and I know, before it happened I knew it

:42:29. > :42:33.could happen, I know which could happen again, it's the kind of world

:42:34. > :42:40.we live in, so I'm kind of prepared as much as I can be for these

:42:41. > :42:44.things. And how do you do that? You say you know it could happen again,

:42:45. > :42:48.does that mean you go around in fear? No, no, I don't let these

:42:49. > :42:51.things affect my life any more than it has already. It affected me

:42:52. > :42:59.because I was there and I had to deal with the situation, look after

:43:00. > :43:01.my ex-girlfriend, and kind of process the information, but I don't

:43:02. > :43:08.let these things affect my life any more than it has to. Sumit, you own

:43:09. > :43:13.a hotel near to where the Brussels bombings happened. What was the

:43:14. > :43:18.impact on you of that attack? For us, it is like every other business

:43:19. > :43:22.because Brussels got highlighted too much, in the news and everything, a

:43:23. > :43:26.lot of people stopped coming to Brussels so it is not only me but

:43:27. > :43:33.like a lot of other small businesses they got impacted because we are in

:43:34. > :43:37.the centre of Brussels, most of the companies moved their meetings out

:43:38. > :43:41.of Brussels to other cities, so it is a bit of financial loss but for

:43:42. > :43:46.sure it is nothing as compared to the lives which people are losing,

:43:47. > :43:53.so I don't care too much about the financial losses but it is a pity,

:43:54. > :43:59.what I would say, it is a pity these things are happening still, we need

:44:00. > :44:03.to get control of it. Obviously you are putting it in context but it is

:44:04. > :44:11.your livelihood and affected by things out of your control. Indeed,

:44:12. > :44:18.we have to see the bigger picture, all these incidents affecting people

:44:19. > :44:23.like us owning some businesses and other cities, I'm sure it happened

:44:24. > :44:29.in these as well, tourism got affected -- in Nice, people stop

:44:30. > :44:32.going to these places for some time, I think it is the same in Berlin, so

:44:33. > :44:39.we just have to stick together and not let them when, that is what I

:44:40. > :44:43.will say, you know? We cannot just, how do you say, make them win by not

:44:44. > :44:48.visiting those cities or avoiding those cities, because it can happen

:44:49. > :44:52.anywhere, like the other guy was telling, I forgot his name, but it

:44:53. > :44:59.can happen any time, anywhere, you cannot just stop living. They are

:45:00. > :45:06.losses for business and everything, but for sure we will recover soon.

:45:07. > :45:10.Dave, you were caught up in the Berlin attack. Tell us the impact it

:45:11. > :45:15.had a new and actually what happened to you. I think we have now lost

:45:16. > :45:20.Dave, we will try to re-establish the connection. I think we can talk

:45:21. > :45:27.to Frederica lad who was in the stadium during the Paris attacks in

:45:28. > :45:39.November 2000 and 15. Thank you for joining us, what happened to you?

:45:40. > :45:48.Frederik, can you hear me? No, I think we've lost our connection to

:45:49. > :45:53.Frederik as well. Peter, you were both talking very resiliently about

:45:54. > :45:59.not letting things like this define your lives. What would you say to

:46:00. > :46:02.people in London who may be feeling vulnerable? Even if you aren't

:46:03. > :46:11.directly caught up in something, it can still have a big impact. I

:46:12. > :46:18.couldn't give any advice, but, like I've already said, we know these

:46:19. > :46:24.things happen, and we know that they normally happen in important cities

:46:25. > :46:31.like London, New York, Nice and the other cities as well. So we kind of

:46:32. > :46:35.have two, unfortunately we have to prepare ourselves. We should be

:46:36. > :46:41.preparing ourselves mentally to deal with this kind of situation if we

:46:42. > :46:48.can, if it happens. The more we can prepare ourselves, the more we can

:46:49. > :46:56.cope afterwards. In terms of coping afterwards, all I could say is what

:46:57. > :47:00.I'm doing, it seems to be working. By worrying about it afterwards, by

:47:01. > :47:08.fearing it afterwards, it affects our life even more. It doesn't help

:47:09. > :47:14.us, if we think like that. I know it's easier said than done. I'm not

:47:15. > :47:19.saying it's easy. I think we need to be as strong as we can and just to

:47:20. > :47:25.think that these things do happen. We have to deal with them as well as

:47:26. > :47:31.possible. Have you come up with practical solutions for you in terms

:47:32. > :47:38.of being out and about? You were caught up in a situation similar to

:47:39. > :47:42.the one in London, a car, a vehicle is deliberately driven into

:47:43. > :47:51.pedestrians. If you are out there is a fear of that happening, are their

:47:52. > :47:56.practical ideas to have in mind? I suppose, to be more vigilant. We

:47:57. > :48:02.don't want, when we leave our house, we don't want to keep looking at

:48:03. > :48:10.cars or planes or people. I think we need to try to, I've heightened my

:48:11. > :48:17.sense of vigilance a little bit. Especially when I'm on the promenade

:48:18. > :48:21.because I'm not afraid of the area, I run there, I go there, it's a

:48:22. > :48:27.beautiful place. But I'm slightly more wary now. But it's kind of,

:48:28. > :48:31.it's an indirect thing. I'm not letting my wariness affect my

:48:32. > :48:42.enjoyment of the area or what I do in life. Thank you both.

:48:43. > :48:49.Still to come, we'll be looking at the role of social media in

:48:50. > :48:53.radicalisation. I've just received more of your comments. One viewer

:48:54. > :48:57.says, as a true Muslim I totally condemn the killing of innocent

:48:58. > :49:01.people and Islam is the religion of peace. We don't allow killing of

:49:02. > :49:04.innocent people in any circumstances. I call upon all miss

:49:05. > :49:11.ins we need to stand together and take a stand that Islam against the

:49:12. > :49:15.so-called Muslims. An e-mail says, front line police should be armed,

:49:16. > :49:21.stab proof vests must be warm. Police dogs must be situated in all

:49:22. > :49:26.government buildings -- stab proof vests must be worn. Another viewer

:49:27. > :49:32.says, what is the point of a police officer standing outside Parliament

:49:33. > :49:39.if he isn't equipped to deal with the kind of threat. Khalid Masood

:49:40. > :49:42.has been proven to stay in a hotel in Brighton the night before the

:49:43. > :49:47.attack, we've been speaking to the hotel manager. The police came on

:49:48. > :49:55.Wednesday night to start their investigation. I was called at home

:49:56. > :50:08.quite late at night by the police. They asked for my advice and... They

:50:09. > :50:13.asked the staff questions, we are quite open to this. It's normal for

:50:14. > :50:18.us. Obviously we were trying to run our business at the same time.

:50:19. > :50:23.Yesterday we had police in the hotel, investigating, seeing the

:50:24. > :50:28.room, interviewing all the staff in the middle of our service. It was a

:50:29. > :50:30.bit inconvenient but we had to cooperate with them and try to help

:50:31. > :50:38.to give them all the information. Luckily, we have all the back-up for

:50:39. > :50:44.this. We have the contact, the address, the telephone number, the

:50:45. > :50:50.person's name. We have all this for the police and all the staff. Most

:50:51. > :50:54.of the staff have been interviewed by the police and given the correct

:50:55. > :50:59.information to assist them with their enquiries. Did he give his

:51:00. > :51:03.address as Birmingham? Yes. He gave the correct address and the

:51:04. > :51:08.registration card when he checked in. But later on I heard on the news

:51:09. > :51:12.that the address in Birmingham was correct. Everything he said to us

:51:13. > :51:17.was correct, his correct name and address, telephone number,

:51:18. > :51:22.everything he gave us when he checked in is correct and is the

:51:23. > :51:26.same as what was mentioned in the news later on. And the car that he

:51:27. > :51:30.checked into your car part, was that the same car that was used in the

:51:31. > :51:38.London atrocities? Yes, we haven't seen the registration in the paper

:51:39. > :51:48.yet but however, it's 90% the same car. We know it was a great car, a

:51:49. > :51:53.four by four. -- four by four. It's the same car. We request car

:51:54. > :52:06.registration numbers when people check in. The car looked the same as

:52:07. > :52:12.the one he... My colleagues saw the car and she confirmed it was the

:52:13. > :52:18.same car. We need to confirm the registration number. That's the

:52:19. > :52:21.manager of a hotel in Brighton where it has emerged Khalid Masood stayed

:52:22. > :52:25.the night before the attack in London. To bring the right

:52:26. > :52:29.up-to-date with all the latest developments, police have said

:52:30. > :52:34.they've made two more significant arrests in connection with the

:52:35. > :52:38.attack in Westminster. The suspects were held overnight in the West

:52:39. > :52:45.Midlands and the north-west. Weevils are learned this morning that the

:52:46. > :52:51.birth name of Khalid Masood was Adrian Russell Ajao. Earlier I spoke

:52:52. > :52:58.to Dani Singer who witnessed the attack on the bridge. People on the

:52:59. > :53:01.other side of the bus saw what happened. Some on uncharted, if

:53:02. > :53:06.anyone has first aid training they should get off the bus and help. I

:53:07. > :53:10.went to the first person I saw who looked like they weren't being

:53:11. > :53:15.attended to. It was a man who had quite a significant head injury and

:53:16. > :53:18.potentially other injuries we couldn't see. At that point we

:53:19. > :53:23.didn't really know that anything else was going to happen, it hadn't

:53:24. > :53:28.even happened yet. What helped did you give? The other chap who was

:53:29. > :53:34.with me helping the gentleman was a medic. There wasn't a lot we could

:53:35. > :53:37.practically do, it was just monitoring polls and breathing and

:53:38. > :53:43.checking his airways were clear. I was just talking to him, he was

:53:44. > :53:47.unconscious but you're never aware of what people are aware of

:53:48. > :53:51.themselves. So I was talking to him, describing when the ambulances were

:53:52. > :53:54.coming and hoping that some part of him was registering our presence and

:53:55. > :54:01.that we were there to help him. Do you know how he is now? I've got no

:54:02. > :54:06.idea. As he said, you didn't know it was a terror attack happening. You

:54:07. > :54:11.went off when the ambulances arrived, when did you discover what

:54:12. > :54:14.had actually happened? I went to wash my hands basically and then I

:54:15. > :54:18.came back to the people I was with on the bus. We had to be diverted

:54:19. > :54:23.all the way around. It was about ten minutes later when I realised from

:54:24. > :54:27.what they had said there had been gunshots fired and a police officer

:54:28. > :54:31.had been stabbed. Then we put two and two together and realised it was

:54:32. > :54:34.probably part of the same incident and it was probably a terrorist

:54:35. > :54:39.attack. How did you feel at that point? I wanted to get away as

:54:40. > :54:44.quickly as possible. The area was so hectic with armed police and

:54:45. > :54:47.paramedics and sirens, so I just wanted to get home as soon as

:54:48. > :54:59.possible, really. Your image has become one of the images used many

:55:00. > :55:03.times on the day. As soon as I got home I had people contacting me, a

:55:04. > :55:07.friend in Hungary contacted me because he said his sister in Israel

:55:08. > :55:11.had seen the picture of me and wanted to check I was OK. I had a

:55:12. > :55:14.few people getting in touch saying they had seen that and then people

:55:15. > :55:21.phoning saying they saw me on the knees. That was really strange, just

:55:22. > :55:24.to be part of, to be someone's reference point -- saying they saw

:55:25. > :55:28.me on the news. There were lots of injured people along the bridge, you

:55:29. > :55:32.obviously went straight to one person and focused on helping them,

:55:33. > :55:36.but were you able to take in much of what was going on around you and how

:55:37. > :55:40.other people were reacting? Not really. We were aware of the people,

:55:41. > :55:43.we could see who had been injured. The longer we stay the more apparent

:55:44. > :55:48.it was more and more people have been injured further up the bridge.

:55:49. > :55:54.At one point when the photograph was taken, I wasn't even aware of that.

:55:55. > :56:00.I was just looking to ambulances and her any progress, really. I wasn't

:56:01. > :56:09.aware of that. Could you describe the way people work? Was it people

:56:10. > :56:14.reacting calmly in dealing with the situation, was their chaos? It

:56:15. > :56:19.wasn't chaotic. Everyone dealt with it amazingly, especially the NHS

:56:20. > :56:23.staff at St Thomas who came running out, saying, what can I do? They are

:56:24. > :56:29.obviously very close, how quickly were people there? Within, it felt

:56:30. > :56:33.like seconds. Maybe it was one or two minutes. There was a chap at one

:56:34. > :56:37.point he came next to me and said, I'm on holiday but I'm a doctor,

:56:38. > :56:40.what can I do? All the civilians who helped, maybe people without the

:56:41. > :56:44.training, they were just there to be doing whatever need to be done. The

:56:45. > :56:51.police response was incredibly quick, also. I suppose everything

:56:52. > :56:57.went smoothly as far as the response was concerned. As a Londoner how do

:56:58. > :57:00.you feel now? I feel affected by having been there but I don't feel

:57:01. > :57:06.affected as a Londoner. You don't feel more vulnerable? I don't. This

:57:07. > :57:12.is the sort of thing that we keep in the back of our minds that could

:57:13. > :57:16.happen at any time. As everybody is saying, London is open and we stand

:57:17. > :57:20.united. I'm certainly not going to use this as an excuse to be more

:57:21. > :57:27.afraid of the different communities who make up London. In fact, it has

:57:28. > :57:29.solidified in me the fact London is a multicultural, diverse city and we

:57:30. > :57:35.can celebrate that through our unity, together. Dani Singer who was

:57:36. > :57:40.one of the first at the scene of the attack on Westminster Bridge.

:57:41. > :57:46.Just to remind you of the appeal police have been making for

:57:47. > :57:52.eyewitnesses to get in touch. They say, we remain keen to hear from

:57:53. > :57:57.anyone who knew Khalid Masood well, who knows his associates and can

:57:58. > :58:00.provide us with information about places he has recently visited.

:58:01. > :58:02.There may be people out there with concerns about him but didn't feel

:58:03. > :58:09.comfortable in passing those concerns on. Police are trying to

:58:10. > :58:13.piece together exactly what led to Khalid Masood being radicalised,

:58:14. > :58:20.carrying out that attack in Westminster on Wednesday with the

:58:21. > :58:24.loss of four members of the public. 75-year-old Leslie Rhodes has been

:58:25. > :58:25.named as the latest victim to have died.

:58:26. > :58:38.Discover the world's most fascinating hotels. Wow!

:58:39. > :58:42.And got behind the scenes with Giles Coren... Did it!